#147: Hostage Diplomacy: Surviving Venezuelan Captivity - Former Wrongful Detainee Jose Pereira of the Citgo 6

Hostage diplomacy is an ugly game. For decades America’s adversaries have imprisoned US citizens in an effort to leverage diplomatic, economic or military advantage. These cases range from exaggerated charges, to disproportionate penalties, to outright lies. Each case is different. And each case affects both the lives of the incarcerated, their families and ultimately American power. Jose Pereira https://joseconnect.com/ was held prisoner by the Venezuelan government for five years. He was the CEO of Citgo and after a Thanksgiving Day meeting in Caracas, he and five other Citgo executives were arrested and charged with bribery, corruption and other false charges. They became known as the Citgo 6. Jose joined Fran Racioppi https://www.linkedin.com/in/francisracioppijr/ to share the story of his captivity, his year long solitary detention in the Submarine, starvation, sickness, sham trials, and his time in a coma. Jose talks about his mental battles with depression and suicidal ideation. Like all great leaders, Jose sought solutions using the buckets his food was delivered in as a clandestine courier service to exchange letters with his wife. These letters kept him alive, gave him hope and now serve as the foundation to his new book “From Hero To Villain: My True Story of the Citgo 6.” Special thanks to Hostage US https://hostageus.org/ for supporting the families of American hostages and those wrongfully detained, as well hostages and detainees when they return home. HIGHLIGHTS 0:00 Welcome Home3:39 Summoned to Venezuela7:51 Surviving the first 48 hours16:05 Bargaining chips for oil20:09 Smuggling letters in food23:58 The toll on the family28:07 Captive with Green Berets30:24 Prisoner Swap38:47 Hostage Diplomacy41:34 The challenges of coming home45:51 The role of Hostage US49:19 The healing process51:01 Daily Foundations to Success QUOTES For us, Thanksgiving became kind of a nightmare.” “Nobody was prepared because this was a sham situation.”“They target high profile people because they need to leverage you.”“I stayed 10 months in total confinement.”“In those containers I found that you could put a double bottom.”“Your family is a hostage even worse than you. They are a spiritual and mental hostage.” “Bring the American back no matter the tool that you need to use.” “You are literally caught in a time machine. You are literally in a cage for five years.” The Jedburgh Podcast and the Jedburgh Media Channel are an official program of The Green Beret Foundation https://greenberetfoundation.org/. Watch, listen or read https://greenberetfoundation.org/jedburghpodcast/146-citgo-6-surv%E2%80%A6nee-jose-pereira/ our conversation from Epigen Technology https://epigentechnology.com/in Arlington, VA. Follow the Jedburgh Podcast https://www.instagram.com/jedburghpodcast/ and the Green Beret Foundation https://www.instagram.com/greenberetfoundation/ on social media. Listen on your favorite podcast platform and watch the full video version on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@jedburghpodcast as we show why America must continue to lead from the front, no matter the challenge. The opinions presented on the The Jedburgh Podcast and the Jedburgh Media Channel are the opinions of the guests and the host. They do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Green Beret Foundation and the Green Beret Foundation assumes no liability for their accuracy.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Fran Racioppi?

  Welcome to the Jedburgh Podcast. I'm the creator and host, Fran Rachopie. Each episode, I speak with transformative leaders, visionaries, drivers of change, and those dedicated to winning no matter the challenge. The Jedburgh Podcast is founded in the lineage of the special operations Jedburgh teams of the past and is an official program of the Green Beret Foundation, supporting our nation's US Army Special Forces and their families. America's national security and role as the world's only superpowers being challenged in every corner of the globe. For over 20 years, the United States fought counterterrorism, counterinsurgency campaigns against extremist organizations. In the background, adversarial nation-states were building capability, capacity, and the will to supplant the United States in peer-to-peer competition, something

• 0:46Fran Racioppi?

  America hasn't faced since World War II and later the Cold War, and an event that will affect every single American, no matter what they think, say, or do. To unpack the threats facing the United States today and to determine what we're doing about it, I traveled to the home of Special Forces at Fort Liberty, North Carolina, and to the seat of American power in Washington DC for a series on our national security, the peer-to-peer competition we're in with our adversaries, and what our military, Special Forces, and the private sector are doing to keep America first on the world order. Visit the Jedburgh Podcast and the Green Beret Foundation on social media. Listen on your favorite podcast platform and watch us on YouTube as we show why America must continue to lead from the front, no matter the challenge.

• 1:35Fran Racioppi?

  Jose, welcome to the Jedburgh Podcast.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  Thank you for hiring me.

• 1:39Fran Racioppi?

  More importantly, welcome home. You spent five years as a political prisoner of the Venezuelan government. You were the president of Citgo at the time, living in Houston. Citgo was a subsidiary of the Venezuelan State Oil Company.

• 1:54Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:55Fran Racioppi?

  Take us back to Thanksgiving Day, 2000.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  When you get a call to come to Venezuela? Well, this is a story that every time I think about it is something really bizarre because as you said, I was the president of Citgo Petroleum. But given a little bit more background, by that time I was having thirty five years in the in the oil and gas. I began my my working in Venezuela. I was born in Venezuela in Pedebes, that is the, you know, the headquarters of Citgo. And I came here to Houston like fifty years, fifteen years after assigned to Citgo. And well, I was kind of in the pinnacle of my career, you know, thirty five years became the CEO.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  And but the political situation by that time, we're talking in twenty seventeen with Venezuela was not going good. Today, everybody knows there is a communist regime that has more than two decades. The situation was really evolving very bad and the political things was being tense. There was sanctions had been imposed, but I was looking that and you never expect that that can affect you because you're in the private side. So I was in here in a movie with my wife and I received a phone call to go to an unexpected meeting in the following day. And well, I didn't see nothing wrong because it was close to December budget season. We were revamping a refinery. I had to present a project.

• 3:25Speaker 01

  I flew the other day. I flew the other day in the days before Thanksgiving and we did this meeting. I did a meeting. I did a presentation and when we're finishing the presentation, we saw a bunch of guards. I will always say they were in Robocop outfit because, you know, they were on black suit and they have big mask with skeletons and they had here a sign called Dhesim. When I saw that, I asked the guy that was beside me, that was the Dhesim. And the guy told me, who said that is the counter intelligent military police of this country. That is like a pretorian guard this guy have very similar that the one that they have other

• 4:08Speaker 01

  Like Iran or China or Cuba, they have, you know, this is a copy paste this guy do. So this guy came and they asked for me. And when I, when I heard my name, I said, well, this guy asking for me. So they took us to another room and he appeared a general. Because this is a military police.

• 4:26Fran Racioppi?

  You weren't there by yourself too. You had five others.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, we, I flew with because as I said, we were revamping a refinery. We were revamping a refinery in Aruba. And the five guy that came for me were the five vice president of, of CIGO. They were involved in this project. And we flew, you know, to make a presentation, you know, normal core of business. And while we were chartered, we became to be chartered to become, we became spies. We were chartered to be a matrician. They charted as corruption, embezzlement, association and a lot more charts. And was something bizarre. We at that moment, we really thought it was a mistake. Well, that mistake lasted five years.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  That was a mistake that for us was five years during Thanksgiving. And every Thanksgiving for the next year, always was happening something. So for, for us, Thanksgiving became kind of a nightmare that year.

• 5:28Fran Racioppi?

  I've had the chance previously to sit down with Michael Scott Moore and Jessica Buchanan. Both very active in hostage US. Both became prisoners of al Shabab and Somali, Somali pirates respectively. They tell their stories about these moments of capture. And so many people who unfortunately find themselves in situations like yours. And you know, theirs were, were violent in many ways, especially Michael. Yours is a little bit different and each one of these cases is, is so unique. No two detention stories are the same, right? But I mean, you're an executive with other executives who are arrested.

• 6:10Fran Racioppi?

  Talk about those first 24 to 48 hours, because in so many situations, whether we deal with with detention, with police in foreign countries, or we deal with, we deal with terrorists, kidnappings, those first 24 to 48 hours are critical from the ability to get somebody out of the situation that they're in, but also in the psyche of the person who's going through it. Talk about your thought process in those first couple of days.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  That's very interesting, that question, because I had to go back one month before. I'm gonna tell you why. Because, as I said, the political situation in Venezuela was really very, very bad. And now are all these sanctions in place. And I talked to my wife, I said, you know, I really am gonna get retired. Thirty-five years. So I had asked my boss that I wanted to get retired. And he told me that back and forth, okay, give me four months to get your replacement. So I was ready to get retired. I got the approval to get retired. I flew to Houston, back to Houston, and I received a call that they were closing the summit. And for the closing of the summit, they bring always a speaker. And I asked,

• 7:22Speaker 01

  who is gonna be the speaker? They told me it was gonna be the real Captain Phillips. I said, okay, I have seen the movie, you know, Tom Hanks. And well, the guy tells his story, how he was hostage of so many pirates, etc. And when he came back and sit down with me, I was with my wife, by the way, we were like in shock hearing this guy. And I said, wow, man, you did it great, how you did, how you did it. And the guy told me that you are creature of God, and that human spirit has that inner force, that in those moments, you can take that force, and you can do things beyond what you believe you can do. I got like, wow, why this guy told me that? Well, answering your question, that we were caught

• 8:07Speaker 01

  that day, when the military told us that we were being charged of espionage and treason, they put us handcuffed. Can you imagine I finishing my career, get retired during Thanksgiving? And now I see myself and my colleagues with handcuffs. And they load us in an armored truck. And we stayed like more than 10 hours going all over Caracas, seeking for, you know, paperwork they had to do. Nobody was prepared because this was a sham situation. So nobody knew how to handle it. So everything was through phone calls.

• 8:50Fran Racioppi?

  So do you think this was planned? Or do you think there's a target of opportunity?

• 8:54Speaker 01

  What was planning was targeted, both. Was planned and targeted. Because already they were having issues with the US government six months before. They didn't have nothing to leverage. Because the problem with that situation of the hostage diplomacy is that, that they targeted. They target high profile people because they need to leverage you. This is the way it works. So that was totally planned and totally targeted. And well, but of course, the masterminds, they knew what they wanted to do. But all the people that were around, they didn't know. So everything was during phone calls. We saw how they were doing, trying to handle all the paperwork.

• 9:39Speaker 01

  We arrived to the place where we finally stayed during years. It's called Boleida, Istanbul, headquarters of this military group. And we headed there like more 1:00 or 2:00 AM in the morning, tired, sweaty. I was with a suit, I was totally sweat, starving. We didn't eat nothing, with handcuffs. And that night, we stayed there with handcuffs all the night. So I had to sleeping in the floor with handcuffs. I didn't sleep. And when they came the morning, it came a lieutenant. That guy was a real sociopath. He was really, really a sociopath.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  He began to give us a lot of psychological torture. And after that, we were...

• 10:27Fran Racioppi?

  What was he saying?

• 10:28Speaker 01

  He was yelling, he was mocking, you know, he was trying to break us, literally break us. And he, of course, we broke because we were, I'm a military. I didn't know how to handle this because, let me tell you, oil and gas is a challenging industry. I was really used to handle crisis management because, you know, in oil and gas it's very typical that you can have a blow up in a well or you can have a fire in a refinery. So you are trained for that and you're trained how you can behave and how you can respond. But this was something totally awkward and new for us. So I, I, I was in shock because I didn't know what was going on. I didn't know what, what was happening to us.

• 11:12Speaker 01

  I, I said, there has to be something wrong here. Well, after that day, in the morning, we were put in a basement, a three story down, totally locked basement, they, they call it the submarine. And, and we were separated. The last time I saw the other, the other guy was almost one year after. The last time I heard my, the voice of my wife was 10 months after. So I stayed 10 months in totally confinement. The lights 24/7 turned on. We begin to starve. There was no food, days without eating. I lost 100 pounds. I lost 100 pounds.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  The cleaning of that was so, a lot of cockroach, I, I got scabies. I got scabies, I, I got bronchitis. So I begin to spot blood, you know, I, I was in a very, very bad situation. And we found that someday appeared a commission of the UN because in the meantime, the situation, we didn't know what was going on. Today I'm aware what was going on because now I know what happened. Since day one, our family went to the US government. And the US government was taking care and the ambassador, he went 11 times to see us, 11 times. They never allowed him to see us.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  And the situation began to get so tense that the, the ambassador was recalled. So there was no US ambassador. So we were literally left behind. And we found that day, 10 months after that, there was a commission of the UN that flew to Venezuela, the Arbitrati Detention Commission of the UN, they flew to Venezuela. And they met us when the guy, it was a Spanish guy and a French lady. When they saw, they really was like in shock because we were seeing ourselves bad. We were really in bad shape. We were literally dying. And that guy got so, so scared with our situation. So they went to the government and they began to pressure them.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  And the guy told us, they had told them that they had to give us food and medicine because we were going to die. The problem that was going on in the moment in Venezuela because of the sanctions and the crumble of the economy, because this is a communist regime, you know, what all this communist regime do. The situation was really bad for, in general. There was no food and no medicine. So this guy, they allow us that our family begin to supply the food. So our family was authorized. If you want this guy to survive, you have to provide the food.

• 13:53Fran Racioppi?

  So the government wasn't doing it. Why do you think you were treated like that? So I mean, when we talk about white collar crime, and I mean, the US, while you were, your trial was going on, you called this a kangaroo court, you know, and they were pretty vocal about, about it. You know, you said, quote, "We were not political. We were in the wrong place at the wrong time." Why would they treat you like this? Because normally, I mean, at least what we see here in the US, I mean, people who go to prison for financial crimes, you know, it's like a hotel. But you were treated like a murderer.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know why? Because this guy wanted to. Put a lot of pressure in the US government. Because remember that US government at that time had imposed sanctions to the country, to the government, and they had done an oil embargo, a ban. So Venezuela was really having a hard time.

• 14:52Fran Racioppi?

  Oil being the primary export product.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  Of course, and so they cut the oil export. So this guy begin to ask for us to get lifted the sanctions, to get lifted the oil ban. Can you imagine that? So that these guys were asking a lot for us.

• 15:09Fran Racioppi?

  That was the price, essentially. That was the price.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  That was the price.

• 15:13Fran Racioppi?

  So after, so while this is going on, while you're in, you're in the submarine, you're in these horrible conditions, the UN commission comes, they won't let the US ambassador in to see you in the 11 visits, but now the Venezuelan government's starting to say, here's the reality, let's talk about oil, let's talk about creating a negotiation.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  And they were open, they were shameless, you know, they were shameless.

• 15:40Fran Racioppi?

  They weren't hiding it.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  At the beginning, they tried to hide, the first year, to tell you the truth, they were trying to create a narrative. But at some point, they decided to openly begin to ask for us. So we became clearly political pundits, embargo chief, no doubt about it. And this guy were shameless, they begin to openly send message to the government what they wanted. And we were getting that information because the way it went, because as I said, we had like 10 months without communication. After that visit of the UN, they allow us to have the first call. And when I had the first call with my wife, she mentioned that they were having that direct conversation with the government, they were, you know, pushing hard.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  Today, I know that they were really pushing hard because my wife came here to Washington and times, you know, she met with all the officials that can you imagine? She met with the vice president like two times and with the National Security Commission Commissioner several times, with the State Department. She and the The other five family were really, really involved in, in all this process. So these guys, when that happened and they begin to ask openly, they relax, begin to, because it was like a, you know, they begin to relax a little bit the situation. And they begin to allow us to have books and to have food and medicines. So when I begin to have the books, the medicines and the food,

• 17:10Speaker 01

  that as I explained to you, the way, the logistic for us or for, or that all of us was really complicated. Because we were six guys that we were living here in the US with all the family with no family in Venezuela. So can you imagine how you can handle that? And that my family decided to my eldest son, he moved to Colombia. He flew to Colombia and he stayed in Bogota during four years, providing me food during four years, four years sending me food every week.

• 17:38Fran Racioppi?

  How did he set that up? How did that work?

• 17:40Speaker 01

  Well, let me tell you, it was a logistic that today I still don't know how he did it. Let me say, he from Bogota, every, let's say every Monday, he began to do the grocery shop online. And at the beginning, he, Venezuela didn't have food, so he bought it in Bogota. He put it in a box and he sent it to a courier. And then somebody in Venezuela pick up the, the box. This guy that was doing the logistic, his wife, the guy, the wife of the guy cooked. And they sent me the containers of, of food every Tuesday, every Thursday and every Saturday. So three times in the week.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  So I have like a small fridge where I can put it there to have food during two days and a half. And then the next round, two days and a half. That's the way I began to smuggle the letters, because in those containers, I found that you can put a double button. And I asked the guy to bring me, he smuggled a pen and, and pieces of paper. I begin to take papers from the books. The white papers of the book, I begin to write there. And I begin to do it and do, and do it. And my wife begin to answer, answer, answer. And we stayed doing that during three years. We could, could do that during three years. Miraculously, they never found the letters. I have the letters here and here in the US. And the letters became my memoir that is gonna be my book.

• 19:04Fran Racioppi?

  So you were smuggling the letters in.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:07Fran Racioppi?

  In between.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  In between.

• 19:09Fran Racioppi?

  The buckets.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  In the buckets.

• 19:11Fran Racioppi?

  For the food.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:12Fran Racioppi?

  And then your son was receiving them.

• 19:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:15Fran Racioppi?

  Mailing them back.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  No, that my son, no, because my son wasn't because that the guy that supplied me the food.

• 19:21Fran Racioppi?

  Mm hmm.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  He, when he received that, those empty cans, he opened it, he took the letter, he took a photo. He sent it via WhatsApp to my wife here.

• 19:31Fran Racioppi?

  Wow.

• 19:31Speaker 01

  My wife printed it and then she put it in Word. So she, when I came back, I already had all those letters in a Word document. You know how much letter we compiled? Around 1,000 letters. 1,000 letters.

• 19:46Fran Racioppi?

  Yeah, that's three, three years.

• 19:48Speaker 01

  Three years of letters because we did a routine. I can tell you did a routine. When I came back, I told my wife that one of the things that I'm gonna miss was writing my letters with her. It became that wonderful. I was so excited every time I receive. I was excited to see the food, but I was most excited to open and find her letter, you know?

• 20:10Fran Racioppi?

  Can you share what was in the letters? What, what were you, what were you writing? What was she writing?

• 20:13Speaker 01

  Well, let me tell you, let me tell you, because for me, the letter is so important because it's part of my stories. It's my legacy for, for my grandsons, you know? When I begin to write my letters, I really thought that I was gonna die. My first letter, I wrote it December 30, 2018, one year after I was there. And I remember that day in December 21, they was allowed to have like a special visit. They did a concession. And I had aunt that she lived in Venezuela that I love her so much. She was kind of my mom, my, and she visited me. And when I knew that my aunt Lillian was going to visit me, I said, okay, this is the moment to take that letter out.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  So that was my first letter, December 30. My aunt died months after and I never knew, I knew that she had died when I came back. They always told me that she was alive. But she's, my first letter was smuggled by her. So when I saw that the letter go out, my first letter was talking about how hopeless I was. How I were having some suicide thoughts, how I was really thinking that that my life was miserable, that I didn't deserve where I was going. And it really was in my very, very dark moment at the beginning. But and the time passed. And when we we begin to have more connection with the family and after hey,

• 21:42Speaker 01

  we begin to have the visit of the Ambassador Carsten for the Special Presidential Office of Offshore Affairs. So my letters switched and begin to be boost of hope. It begin to be inspiring my family. I was trying to, you know, put my soul, what I was feeling in that moment. So that is the flow of my letters. And that is the flow that I try to put in my movement. Because it's based on that.

• 22:08Fran Racioppi?

  When faced with a challenge, Green Berets adapt, overcome, and keep moving forward. Now's your chance to stand with them. Join the 1952 Society with a monthly gift of just nineteen dollars and fifty-two cents to provide critical medical devices for wounded, ill, and injured Green Berets. Your support fuels their recovery, helping them return to duty or continue serving their communities. A Green Berets mission never stops. Neither should our support. Join the 1952 Society today and stand with those who stand for us. I want to ask about your family. Because something that we talk about in the military a lot, and certainly can't equate it to what you went through. But when we're deployed, when we're gone, we know what's going on.

• 22:52Fran Racioppi?

  So yes, we're in, you know, maybe you're you're in a combat zone. You're going out, you know, on missions at night, whatever it might be. But often it's harder on the family because they don't know what's going on. We know what's going on. You know what's happening every day. You know, hey, this is a really awful situation. But I'm OK, and I'm here, and I'm going to find a way to get through it. Your family has no idea what's going on. Talk about the state of your family and how were they and how did they cope with it?

• 23:18Speaker 01

  Well, this is so incredible, your question, because exactly was talking that moments ago when I was in the FBI office, because that is exactly the situation. Because you are there, even during a dark moment, you know where you are. You know that that's your situation and you begin to survive that situation. So you get even used to it. You try to manage it. You create your routine. And we were six guys that at some point we were together. So we were cheering each other. But your family doesn't is in another situation. Your family is hostage even worse than you, because they are not a physical hostage. They are a mental and spiritual hostage.

• 24:00Speaker 01

  So they are literally putting their life in pause. They are suffering because they don't believe what you are saying. My wife today said to me, I never believe what you were telling me. And it was true, I was hiding her situation. I never told her a lot of thing we went through. She knew it when she began to see my letters that I was writing. So you know, the suffering of the family is that is undescribable, is a nightmare. It's really a nightmare. The family goes to a nightmare. It's kind of a bomb in the middle of is the total family. Because in my case, my son put his life in pause. He has a marriage.

• 24:44Speaker 01

  He has his kids, you know, so he had to take care of me during four years. He took care of me.

• 24:50Fran Racioppi?

  What happened with your job? And what was Citgo's position on this, that they have an entire executive team, including their lead, their, their president is detained?

• 25:00Speaker 01

  You know, the problem with Citgo is that Citgo, as you said, belongs to the Venezuelan government. So and and now today is even worse, because now is a, is a problem between the opposition and the Venezuelan government. So so really, there is a political thing inside that company that is not normal. It's not normal. So they itself, they were caught in that situation. Because it had been a pure American company, Exxon Mobil or Chevron, the situation had been different. But they were like a caught in the middle of the situation, because the, the people that that were there, they had to receive instructions. So, you know, we were too, it wasn't like a catch 22 situation for us.

• 25:44Fran Racioppi?

  And did you lose your job? Were you continue to be paid? I mean, what?

• 25:47Speaker 01

  Well, there is something that I don't want to talk about much about that because I'm in stealing a situation.

• 25:53Fran Racioppi?

  Okay.

• 25:55Speaker 01

  unresolved situation. There is an unresolved situation there.

• 25:58Fran Racioppi?

  All right. Okay. All right. I totally get it. Well, I'm on your side, whatever that side is. So you spend that first year in kind of this deep captivity. And then after that, as you mentioned, things kind of get loosened up. There were a couple of other guests, though, during your time there. Specifically, we've all heard the story and seen it on the news about two Green Berets who were caught making some sort of invasion or whatever we want to call it onto the shores of the beach in Venezuela. Talk about the experience with those guys, because you run into some people that kind of make you laugh, right?

• 26:36Speaker 01

  Well, these guys were our neighbors, you know, looking at you and, you know, when this guy arrived, we knew about what this guy were doing. It's a man, these guys, these guys are wonderful guys, by the way. I got really connected with them. Today, I'm, by the way, one of the families, the family of Luke, his mom, his dad. They are wonderful people. I'm very connected, by the way. When I came back, one week after, I met with them. It was crazy because we were, we were having a recording like this one week after with a guy, a producer that he's trying to produce a series of this. And I met with the family and during the meeting, they received a phone call. He was Luke that they given a call and I could talk with him, you know.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  One week after I came, I was talking with the guy, hey, Luke, hey, you had to stay calm and, you know, have hope. Oh, these guys are awesome. They're awesome then. Because they were our neighbors. We were totally isolated. We were not with other political, because we were with a Venezuelan political prisoner, but in a different place. So we were in a cell, the six of us now, and our neighbor were looking at us. So they allow us to go with them to the, to the walking, to take air. So we were kind of cheering each other. And it was funny because the last year, when the negotiation were already in place, Ambassador Carsten had flew three times to Venezuela.

• 28:02Speaker 01

  So it was more clear that something was going to happen in some moment. They begin to relax more the situation because our situation evolved. According to the situation, how evolved the political situation.

• 28:14Fran Racioppi?

  Yeah.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  So now at that time, they're having clear conversation and it began to evolve. But yeah, this guy were great.

• 28:22Fran Racioppi?

  October 2022, you're sleeping, a guard comes to your cell, wakes everyone up, tells you to get dressed. Talk about the moment.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Well, 5:00 AM in the morning, we receive a notice to go to the door. They called us always Citgo Six, "Hey Citgo Six, come here." You know, we became the Citgo Six.

• 28:42Fran Racioppi?

  Yeah.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  Everybody called us the Citgo Six. "Citgo Six, come here." And we went to the door, "Dress up that you have a meeting." We thought, because we were in October, Ambassador Carson was flying to Venezuela every three months. So he went in December 2121, March 2022, May 2022, and now it's October. So we thought that was he coming. And when they said to dress up, we had to put a yellow outfit. So we call it the minion outfit. So we told the guys, "Hey minion outfit, my friends." So we were gonna put our minion outfits to go to the to the meeting. And the guy came, the big boss came and said, "No, no, no.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  Take out that outfit, put your normal civil outfit that you're free." Free for us was what that means, because we already had had two house of rest. That was back and forward, because they give us two house of rest. They took it out every time that political situation was, they brought us back. We were like going back and forward, back and forward, but it was a nightmare. So we thought that was another house of rest. So when we went to the office, we see a lot of, you know, nurses and doctors and things, and taking blood tests and things, and we're like, "What's going on?" They put us in an airport truck. And when we saw that we were going out of installation, I saw a sand that sent my KDA airport. When I said my KDA airport, I said, "Okay, now this is happening. Now it's happening."

• 30:10Fran Racioppi?

  What was that feeling?

• 30:11Speaker 01

  Oh, wow, I was in shock. But more in shock was when we arrived. Because when we arrived, I saw that we came to the Pedebeza hangar. Pedebeza was my company, where I worked all my life. They put it on a plane that I flew in those planes all my life. So I knew all planes. So when I was coming to the plane, the guy that received us was... One of the most terrible people that are in Venezuela is a guy called Angola. Very, very, very terrible guy. He was the guy that received us. They put us handcuffed, they tied our legs, and they were gonna put us hooks. When the guy was gonna put us hook, I saw this guy gonna throw in the middle of the sea, you know?

• 30:56Speaker 01

  So we really got scared. I told the guy, "Why you want to put us hook? I cannot breathe." And they said, "No, no, be calm that you're gonna be freed in one hour." And I said, "One hour? Where we're heading?" Because to Houston was five hours. So we began to think one hour could be Cuba. So we thought that we were heading to Cuba. They said, "They're gonna say that's to Cuba." Well, finally, we landed on an island called San Vicente in Granada. It's a very tiny island in the middle of nowhere, in the top of Dominican Republic. It's a very tiny island. We landed there, and we landed like five or 10 minutes after landed the US plane. And when the US plane landed, there came the Vice President of Venezuela.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  He was who came there in another plane. And then they told that, "Take off the handcuffs and the ties." And he told you had to walk to the train. And when we were walking to the other plane, we saw two guys walking to us. And I saw those guys, they were the two nephews of the President of Venezuela. They were in a jail here. So that day, we learned that we came through a prisoner swap. So we came through a prisoner swap, and I asked that, because the Ambassador Carsten was there. And I told him, "Those are the nephews of Maduro." He said, "Yes." "Oh, okay." So we were swapped with them. "Okay." So we came, and we stayed there. And we flew back to here under the protection of the US government.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  And we landed in the military base of San Antonio, Texas. We stayed there, the program that they do, they do for the prisoner of war, you know, it's called the PISA program. We stayed like 10 days there in the program and well, the rest is history here.

• 32:44Fran Racioppi?

  Talk about the prisoner exchange for a second because it's, it's interesting when we look at these cases, what people are looking for, what the other side is looking for. I mean, Michael Scott Morse, they wanted $25 million.

• 32:58Speaker 01

  They always ask for a lot at the beginning.

• 33:00Fran Racioppi?

  Yeah.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  It's like a ransom, you know?

• 33:02Fran Racioppi?

  How do you feel about that? You know, when you see this transition, I mean, and one of the things you said during the time was the suffering our family was so bad, I didn't care what the tool used to release us was.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  And that is true. And let me tell you, one of the today that we are connected with all this foundation and we, and our family, we're part of the families that founded, that bring our family on campaign that today is active. One of the statement of the campaign is bring the Americans back, no matter the tools that you need to use. It's a difficult call. It's a very difficult call because there is a lot of political implication behind. Because to bring somebody back, you had to give concessions. In our case, they had to do a presidential pardon to this guy that were lot of drugs, you know? So they were really, really bad guys.

• 33:56Speaker 01

  So you had to take a swallow and take a hard call to bring people back. But at some point, your family is so tired of the suffering. That I remember that my wife told me that days before, they had had a meeting with a State Department Secretary with Pink. And they, my wife told him, him, I don't know, I don't care what you had to do, but you have to bring my husband back because now we were having, I have had the heart attack. Few months before.

• 34:30Fran Racioppi?

  And you were in a coma for three days.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  And I had three days in a coma. So my situation was really severe. And I can tell you, I'm, I don't know how I'm here today because I, after that, my situation began to evolve. And today I'm okay. I have been going to, to make them take M I Rs every time. Nothing appears.

• 34:51Fran Racioppi?

  There's believed to be, and we don't have an accurate number, but there's believed to be over 200 political prisoners in Venezuela. The U S State Department puts the number globally at about a million across all countries. Some of the leaders, as you would imagine Saudi Arabia, Russia, Iran, North Korea.

• 35:10Speaker 01

  All the big guys.

• 35:10Fran Racioppi?

  Yeah. The good guys out there. That's a lot of people across the world. The State Department is, is two years into their program hashtag without just cause initiative is what they're calling it. We've seen here in America, in addition to your cases, other high profile Americans who've been, who've been recently held by Russia. So W N B A star Brittany Griner.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  Paul Weller that is here.

• 35:36Fran Racioppi?

  Yeah, who, who was exchanged for Russian armed, Russian armed dealer. Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershovich continues to be detained. Extended, yeah, every three months. He's extended again for another three months. And now after the Putin had the interview with Tucker Carlson, it's now come out.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  Trevor Reed was also, they came through a prisoner swap from Russia, Trevor.

• 35:59Fran Racioppi?

  Yeah. So, and, and so they want really bad people back here. The U S has a policy when it comes to terrorists at least. And we're very clear, we, we will not negotiate with terrorists so that they can't use this against us later on. In your opinion, why is that so difficult to maintain a stance like that when it comes to political prisoners?

• 36:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's very difficult call because sometimes the approach that people take is that you we don't negotiate with terrorists. But in the other side, you have regular people because the problem with this that is called the hostage diplomacy. That today I'm very aware and I'm very vocal with this, but that's why I support foundations like Hostile U.S. because they treat hostage diplomacy hostages. The problem with the hostage diplomacy is there are regular people, maybe high-profile people because of their work, but normally they are not politicians. High-profile people that they get caught and they use it as a pawn to leverage.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  So it's something that is so mean, what they do is evil because they're taking human life without no mercy. And so it's a very difficult call that people has to be brought back. That's the point. And talking about the political prisoner of Venezuela, Francis, let me tell you, not 200, I believe that amount is around 400. I had the, I don't know to say the fortune, to met almost all of them. Because during my five years, I stayed in the two dungeons of Venezuela. Because the first two years and a half, we stayed in the DSE, that is the military political prisoner jail. And then I was transferred after the first house arrest that we recall, we went to the

• 37:49Speaker 01

  SEBIN, that is the civil political prisoners. So I knew the militaries and the civilians. I stayed with generals, colonels, captains, lieutenants, a lot of military with me because they were prisoners, because they were against the government. And then I stayed in the other side with journalists, human rights avocates, religious leaders, so high-profile people. So I was not with regular prisoners, I was always high-profile people.

• 38:20Fran Racioppi?

  Yeah. And 200 compared, I mean, the U.S. State Department estimates that Saudi Arabia has 3,000.

• 38:27Speaker 01

  No, yeah, Iran, Iran has a lot too. Iran is the champion of all this stuff.

• 38:32Fran Racioppi?

  Let's talk about coming home. Once you're home, it's often harder once you're home.

• 38:39Fran Racioppi?

  Then it almost is to be gone. Some of the challenges that you don't even think about. And we've talked about with Mike, we've talked about with Jess. Money, credit, banking, loss of connection with family and friends. Talk about your reintegration process. So you spent your 10 days down in the center, but now you go home and you're back at your house.

• 39:01Speaker 01

  You know, let me tell you a reflection before beginning that. One of the book that I had the opportunity to read when they begin to allow a book was that Men in the Search of a Meaning of Viktor Frankl. For me, there was like a guide and I remember that he telling that when he went out, he found that almost his family were died, his wife, his dad, his mom, everybody was dead. And he's, you know, his life was totally messed up. So when I came back after those 10 days, the first thing that I learned is that my aunt, that was kind of my mom was died. My mother in law had died. I was really very connected with her. I was always asking for them and my wife was saying, no, they're fine. They're saying hello to you.

• 39:46Speaker 01

  No, they had two years already dead.

• 39:48Fran Racioppi?

  They just never want to tell you.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  They never wanted to tell me. So I found that your credit was totally disaster. I had some credit card that my wife didn't know because I handled by my own. Five year unpaid. Can you imagine how that credit card was?

• 40:02Fran Racioppi?

  And there's no box to check when you call the company and say, you know, I was a political prisoner in Venezuela for five years.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  I can tell you for me, you has been a blessing because part of that thing they have helped me is that, you know, be connect to those dots and talk to the people. Hey, this guy was a political prisoner. Take care of him, you know? Some has respond, some hasn't respond. So it's a real nightmare. And the other thing is that you're literally coming a time machine, my friend. When I came back, I came to a post pandemic world. At the beginning, I didn't recognize it. The people were so, you know, so different.

• 40:41Fran Racioppi?

  Look at anybody.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  They, they, you know, I remember because I came out with no documents. Because these guys told me all the documents. So when I was landing in the military base, I told Ambassador Carter, I'm gonna do immigration. And he told me, don't worry, you're the government, you're okay. So after that, I had to take my driver's license. Well, they sent me a letter to go to take my driver's license and explained the situation. And I came to the lady and the lady looked me like I was a Martian, you know, I was, who is this guy? And then she told me, I had to call my supervisor. And I told the lady, hey, but read the letter. You know what the lady said? That I was harassing her. And I said, I didn't say nothing. Why are you talking to me that way?

• 41:24Speaker 01

  You know, what's happening to you guys? You know, this world has changed. And for me, it was very impacting at the beginning because you are literally in a cage during five years. So you came out that cage and now you find a different world. And your life totally is scrambled and your family, people that you have lost. And it's really difficult to restart all that thing. For me, beginning to write my book through my letters has been so healing. Because I have been having opportunity to go back to those memories. I have a therapist today that was appointed by Hostage U.S. By the way, she flew yesterday with me.

• 42:06Fran Racioppi?

  Oh, nice.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're friends today. More than one year, talking every Thursday with her. We became friends now. And that is been part of that healing process. It's a difficult situation, my friend. I can tell you, I'm thinking one of the next book is gonna talk about that. The process you go after you come because to tell you the truth is even worse than being there.

• 42:29Fran Racioppi?

  Yeah. You brought up Hostage U.S. And the Hostage U.S. doesn't, they don't really get involved with the captive. But they get involved with the family during detention.

• 42:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:41Fran Racioppi?

  But it's after detention where, as you said, they truly do their best.

• 42:45Speaker 01

  Oh, that's so one.

• 42:46Fran Racioppi?

  Define process. There's about 200 ish, let's say a little bit more in the last year or so. There's about 200 Americans who are in some sort of detention, unlawful detention, whether it be kidnapped, hostage, political prisoner globally right now.

• 43:03Fran Racioppi?

  What we've seen over the last couple of years, I've been involved with the organization now for about four or five years. What we've seen is, six years ago, it was heavily weighted towards kidnap. Now, we see a much heavier weight put on, it's more like your situation, the political prisoner aspect, it's almost a 90-10 is what Dave was telling us yesterday. Talk about how instrumental they've been.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, HOTU, I always told them that they are angels in earth. That's the definition of these guys. These guys are so wonderful. They began to take care of me since day one. I landed in San Antonio and the first thing that I received is a message from HOTU telling me, Jose, if you want to be considered, there is this person that is available for you. Because they give you a focal point. I began to work with that guy since day one until today. Until today. They have never, never, never, never abandoned me. These guys are really angels in earth.

• 44:09Speaker 01

  Even for me, sometimes it's kind of funny because I'm, we're doing lives and I receive a message, hey Jose, how is doing? How are you doing? You know, they're always taking care of you. Because the work they do is a wonderful work they do behind the scenes. Working with you and your family. Because it's not only you, it's your family. So, taking care of your physical health, your mental health, your financial situation. You know, they give a lot of advice, a lot of support. One other thing I'm gonna say here openly, that after I came through this military program,

• 44:48Speaker 01

  the stay 10 days, because I had so much issues, we were transferred to a, there is a big trauma center in North Carolina called Wakefield Medical Center. And I stayed there almost two weeks. They did a full screening of me. So much interaction with him that by the way, I became friend of the director. He's gonna do the prologue of my book.

• 45:13Fran Racioppi?

  Okay.

• 45:13Speaker 01

  He really, we got connected because this guy do a very wonderful job. But they, they took care of me since day one. So Hotte US is something incredible what they do. That's why I got so connected with them. And, and every time they ask me to support them, I, I'm there in the front row with them.

• 45:33Fran Racioppi?

  Book's coming out soon. You mentioned that when you, you built the book and you thought about how would I actually structure it? You used your letters. Going back through the letters has really allowed you in many ways to relive it but process it.

• 45:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:47Fran Racioppi?

  How was that process of writing the book through the letters? And what did it do for your own ability to, to reconcile what happened to you?

• 45:56Speaker 01

  Well, it was, was tough at the beginning because I sit down with my wife, literally, she was my editor. So we sit down in the computer because she has transcribed the, the letters. And when we begin to go back to them, we were crying, crying a lot, where, you know, a lot of memories, a lot of moments. Because you know that, that the brain is something crazy because sometimes, and maybe you know about that, when you go with these very severe traumas, there is a way of protecting you that, that it tried to block that, those memories. So for me, it was difficult because of my memory, where are my letters? No. So I had that moment, today is April 19th, today is 10 a.m. It's happening this.

• 46:40Speaker 01

  So it's like boom, boom, going back and back and back. But today also, my therapist, as I say that we, we became friends, he has tell me that that really had been helping me a lot because I went to back to my memories. So I can, had the opportunity to take it back and throw it back. So I throw those memories in the book. And for me, it really has been really healing. I've been really healing.

• 47:05Fran Racioppi?

  Last question, test question now. Habits are required for elite performers, those who want to succeed in what they do. People have to develop habits. They have to be your foundation. Everybody has different ones. I talk about the Jedbergs, the three man teams that parachuted behind enemy lines. Right? You know, they, they had to be able to shoot. They had to be able to move. They had to be able to communicate. If those were their core foundational tasks, the things that they did with precision without thinking about it every day, they could focus on other challenges that came their way. You had to focus on one of, if not the most challenge, biggest challenge that anybody could ever face. But as you reflect now and you think about your life and you think about what's next and what you've gone through,

• 47:50Fran Racioppi?

  what are the three things that you do every day to set the conditions for success in your world, your habits?

• 47:56Speaker 01

  Well, this is a very interesting question because going back to my, when I was in my captivity, the first year that we were together with a sixth, one year after they put us together, one year after. I remember that day that we saw the other five guys. We hugged ourselves. We began to cry. But we did like a board meeting because remember we were executives. We, we did all our life strategic thinking and, and tactics and strategies because oil and gas is that. And then we did a meet, like a board meeting and we created a plan to survive. If we did a very structured plan to survive. And that plan is the way I crafted, I decided to create a coaching program based on that.

• 48:41Speaker 01

  So I have a coaching program called Life Pills for a Survivor Guy that I created based on that plan. Because that plan allowed us to survive, but you can replicate that to your life and to your business. You know, there is a lot of things like being focused, being positive mindset, stick to the low ones, look to your inner circle, go to your spirituality, take care of your mental, physical health. So there are a lot of things that we did there that I think that today I apply in my life. So this is something that I decided to continue doing. And the spiritually part that I rediscovered God. And today I'm connected to my church. I do church service.

• 49:25Speaker 01

  So my life changed totally. This is another Jose Pareda. In my, my previous life, I was a oil and gas guy. Never take care of where I was going in the world. I was very focused in my thing. Today I'm connected with the foundations, support other hostage families. I went do church service. So my life has changed. It's a total shift in my life.

• 49:50Fran Racioppi?

  So what are the three? What are the three?

• 49:52Speaker 01

  What is the service?

• 49:54Fran Racioppi?

  Oh, well, what three do you have that you do every day?

• 49:56Speaker 01

  Ah, okay, the, the three, okay. Well, the first thing that I do in the morning is wake up and say thanks to God that I'm living. I have two dogs that I, they sleep with us. I enjoy them. I have, there are two pups, they snork a lot.

• 50:14Speaker 01

  So I take them to make a walk and walking them in the morning for me is so wonderful. Today I can really see the small things in life that, and I don't know how to say this because you had to go through this process to understand the importance of that. That you're alive, that you're breathing, that you have these dogs. Because my, all my kids are grown up, so everybody left the nest. But now we have the opportunity to gather with them. I have my grandsons. I enjoy them a lot, you know? So this is the type of thing that today I really, really appreciate. I really, really appreciate the thing today.

• 50:51Fran Racioppi?

  Awesome. Well, we got, well, we have the Hostage US Annual Reception tonight. So we're going to get a chance to see, you know, many of the folks who are involved in the organization. I think it's very interesting because one of the most valuable things that I would argue that comes out of Hostage US is the community that's built around really a club you don't want to be a part of. But unfortunately, it is something that's out there in the world. And there are great organizations like this who are advocating and supporting those who've been through these difficult situations. But to hear the stories, it does make you think about exactly what you just said. You know, we got to be thankful for being here because.

• 51:31Fran Racioppi?

  For reasons we may know or don't know, one day it may all change. And we have to be thankful and be prepared and also think about how will we react? How will we respond?

• 51:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:42Fran Racioppi?

  And I always learned so much about just perseverance and resiliency and adaptability. When I speak with you and people like Mike and Jess, who've been through these situations. And you have to ask yourself, like you did with Captain Phillips before you were there, could I do it? But the most, I think, invigorating thing and the thing that motivates me the most when I hear all of you speak is, yes, you were unprepared in a lot of ways to go through what you did. But great leaders find a way to win. They find a way to get through the most challenging situations. And you did.

• 52:26Fran Racioppi?

  Again, I thank you so much for taking the time on a busy couple of days for you to stop by here, sit down with me, tell your story, share your lessons. And as I said in the beginning, welcome home and thank you.

• 52:37Speaker 01

  You said something that for me is, I always say, you came part of a club you never wanted to be. This is your family that you didn't even ask for them. But now it's part of your life. Because now I'm so connected, not only to Hotel USA with all the other foundations. Next week, I'm going to come to the James Foley Legacy Foundation too. And they do a wonderful job. I admire all these guys. These are the anonymous heroes that are angels in earth that support so much the people that they do their job because they believe in that spirit. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for having me.

• 53:16Fran Racioppi?

  Thank you.

• 53:27Fran Racioppi?

  American Jedbergs went on to form the foundation of the United States Special Forces and the Special Activities Director of the Central Intelligence Agency. Thanks for listening to the Jedburgh Podcast, an official program of the Green Beret Foundation. I'm your creator and host, Fran Rychovny. Join us next week for a new episode on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Check us out on YouTube for full episodes, highlights, and other long and short form content. If you like what you heard, give us a like and leave a review. Follow the Jedburgh Podcast and the Green Beret Foundation on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, Extra Threads. Send your comments and inquiries to [email protected]. As former members of Special Operations Forces, the Jedburgh Media Channel and the Green Beret Foundation remain committed to supporting all generations of US Army Special Forces and their families.

• 54:11Fran Racioppi?

  Thanks for joining us on this episode. How you prepare today determines success tomorrow.