Jocko Underground: You're Too Attached, and You Have A Closed Mind

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast. This is number 105, sitting here with Echo Charles. I just had a expanded edition of my book Leadership Strategy and Tactics come out, just came out. And one of the things I added into it was this section on decision-making, and I gave a list of things to consider when you are making a decision. Like, pretty straightforward. These are the things you need to think about. And it's, I set it up, it's sort of like a loop. It's what I think about when I have to make a decision. Things like how much time I have, the laws of combat leadership, your ego, your emotions, the strategic and tactical mission objectives, these kind of things to consider.

• 0:43Jocko Willink?

  And explain, of course, in the book, why they're important, how you manage them. I talk about like, questions to ask yourself that will make sure that you're thinking about these topics from an objective position. But at the end of this list, I make two very important points about what you need to do to utilize this loop, but really, it's beyond that. It's things that, there's two things that you need to, that we need to kind of always do. These are like, underlying principles

• 1:26Jocko Willink?

  that if you can adapt these to not just decision-making, yes, but just life in general, it's going to help you out in, in a lot of different ways. The first one, you've probably heard, you've definitely heard me say before, you have to be detached, right? When you're in a problem, you can't see anything. You definitely can't see the solution. The other thing when you're not detached is you can't even see the impact of the decisions that you're making, right? Because you're in it, so you make a decision to change something, but you can't, oftentimes, you can't really see the change from inside where you're at. You have to be away. Look, you have to step back to look at it. You know, if you were... Steering a boat out in the open ocean.

• 2:11Jocko Willink?

  When you're in the boat and you change course, you can't really tell that you changed course, right? Cause nothing really, everything looks kind of the same inside the boat. You gotta get up at altitude to see where you've, where you've shifted your course.

• 2:23Jocko Willink?

  So you can't really see the changes that happen. Or when there's subtle changes that are happening. This is something that we talked about last week too. Subtle changes build up over time, but if you're not detached, you don't notice them. You know, when you had like the buddy that you didn't see for three months and they started lifting or they stopped lifting. They started getting on that pizza and beer diet. If they, if you were with them the whole time, you wouldn't notice that they put on 28 pounds of fat, right? Maybe you'd like, but you wouldn't notice it the same way. If you didn't see them for three months, then they just show up and they're gaining 28 pounds of fat. Pizza and beer, you're like, bro, what's going on, man? You okay?

• 3:07Jocko Willink?

  So if you're not detached from it, you can't see it.

• 3:12Jocko Willink?

  So that's the first thing to keep in mind in life. In life, take a step back. And the other thing is you've got to keep an open mind about things. And this is just so critical. It's critical for decision making and it's critical for life to keep your mind open. And an open mind is counterintuitive. Nature wants you to close your mind.

• 3:42Jocko Willink?

  The world wants you to close your mind.

• 3:46Jocko Willink?

  Survival instincts want you to close your mind. Because other ideas are threatening to us. The way they come at us, right? They threaten our, what we believe. Like you, you got your little beliefs that you have, right? You know how, you know how you, uh, the algorithm is set up for you on, on Instagram or on YouTube to show you what you already believe in? Yeah. Cause that's what you like as a human. That's what I like as human. I wanna watch something that says jujitsu is really good, right? People that are vegetarians get fed vegetarian information. People that are carnivores get fed carnivore information.

• 4:27Jocko Willink?

  The, the carnivore diet guy doesn't just pop into the vegan's diet algorithm. No. Right? Why? Cause it threatens what they believe in. And they don't like that. So they just don't even click it. So YouTube knows that and sends you a nice another vegan video. And you're like, see? Or if you're a carnivore, you're like, see?

• 4:52Jocko Willink?

  So, so you gotta, you, you gotta accept the fact that when you open your mind, your very beliefs are gonna be challenged. And that shouldn't be seen as negative. That should be seen as positive. That should be a good thing. Uh, it also changes our, or it challenges our reality. Right? Cause what you believe goes hand in hand with what your reality is, kind of. So when you believe something and then I disrupt that, but then I also disrupt the reality that you live in. You know, like what happened with jujitsu and karate? Yep. You know, back in the day, these dudes literally thought they could kick anybody's ass, cause they've been studying karate. Yeah. For twenty-two, seven years, twenty-two years.

• 5:37Jocko Willink?

  And they were a black belt with the, with the degrees on it, right? Yeah, hell yeah. They were fourth dan, black belch, right? They were just a black belt though. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, a literal blue belt in jujitsu come and just roll them up, man. Just choke them out, no factor. And then they go again, no factor. Yeah. Their whole reality got challenged. So the good people opened their minds and were like, yo, I need to learn this. The people that had closed minds would say things like,

• 6:11Jocko Willink?

  Well, you know, in a street fight, I would have poked your democ eyeball or what, you know, they just had their little li- lies that they told themselves. Then they just closed their mind like, didn't train that. We don't train ground fighting, ground. You wouldn't want to be in a ground fight in a street fight, right?

• 6:24Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 6:25Jocko Willink?

  That's one of the craziest things ever.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:28Jocko Willink?

  No, why would you want to go to the ground in a street fight? No, you wouldn't want to go to the ground in a street fight. Of course you wouldn't. If you go there though, best know what to do. So their whole reality was challenged and people don't like that. Some people opened their mind and said, yep, this is a new reality. I need to learn it. Some people said, nope. Uh, that stuff doesn't work. It's not good to go. What about multiple attackers?

• 6:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:50Jocko Willink?

  Right?

• 6:53Jocko Willink?

  So it challenges that as well. Um, it also, obviously, both those things are tied into your ego. Your ego wants to have a closed mind. Your ego doesn't want to hear any new ideas. It's just shut down, right? It doesn't want to hear about what you eat. Cause like, I know what I eat and what I eat is better. I don't want to hear your workout program. I don't want to hear about your martial arts experience. I don't want to hear about the new tactics that you developed. I don't want to hear about what you believe in. I don't want to, you know, I don't want to hear any of that. Cause I already know everything. So all these things that we're trying to protect just, just closes our minds for us. So that's why I say we all have an instinct to close our minds.

• 7:36Jocko Willink?

  But the world around you, if you keep your mind closed, the world around you changes. And over time, you won't be connected to reality anymore, right? We aren't, if you don't open your mind, you're not putting all the variables into the calculus that you're using to make decisions about your life. You are in a vacuum when you have a closed mind.

• 8:03Jocko Willink?

  So we just have to be careful and these are the two elements and really in the in the book I just talk about the elements as tools for decision making, but I just want to let everyone know it's tools for life. It's tools to constantly detach and keep an open mind. Let the counter arguments in. Welcome the opposing point of view.

• 8:31Jocko Willink?

  Ask yourself questions. Where can I be wrong? What am I not seeing? How can I see more? Open your mind for you have to pry your brain open. You have to pry it open. It's like it's it's it's labor. To pry your brain open and say, yep, you know what? That that makes sense. I didn't understand that. I didn't know that perspective. I didn't I didn't see what you're seeing.

• 8:56Jocko Willink?

  So if you do that, you can understand the world better and you can navigate

• 9:03Jocko Willink?

  the problems, the issues and the decisions that you have to make in a faster and more effective way.

• 9:12Jocko Willink?

  So there you go. Clear your mind.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  A lot of times we are, you know, you say our reality, our beliefs or all that they we maybe subconscious, maybe even consciously attach it to our identity, you know, like it, you know, so whether it be martial arts, political diet, like the whole thing. It's it's kind of attached to our identity.

• 9:35Jocko Willink?

  I didn't bring up like the political thing, right?

• 9:37Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, it's it's everything. I mean, the a lot of times we feel like, oh, yeah, the political thing is like one of the the super hot button things or whatever, but it it's kind of everything, bro. I mean, and depends on who you're talking to, you know?

• 9:50Jocko Willink?

  You're saying it's kind of everything. It's everything in your life.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 9:53Jocko Willink?

  You're not saying the politics is everything. You're just saying like, hey, I got my diet.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 9:57Jocko Willink?

  I got my workout program. Hey, is it? Wait a second. Is this just us? What do normal people talk about? You know what normal people talk about? Like sports and stuff?

• 10:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:06Jocko Willink?

  They'll be like, no. The Chicago Bulls in nineteen whatever, they were def- you know what I mean?

• 10:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:11Jocko Willink?

  People getting heated arguments about this kinda stuff, too.

• 10:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I could see it.

• 10:15Jocko Willink?

  It's their belief system.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  From what I under- I mean, sports is kinda hard then again, I don't know, I'm not deep in the sports fan game. But, you know, sports is kinda hard to defend. Look, if you're a Detroit Lions fan.

• 10:25Jocko Willink?

  What about Ford versus Chevy, though?

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:27Jocko Willink?

  You know what I'm saying? You get that kinda stuff, too.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. Or, or certain guns, or certain, you know, tactics is a bit- but, again, it's like, it's a lot of stuff. It's like, kinda, well, okay, so the hot button topics, like, for everyone, from what I understand, is politics, diet, um, how to raise kids, and religion.

• 10:49Jocko Willink?

  Oh, how to raise kids, good one.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, that's, you know, cuz there's so- and when you think about it, when you look at them all, there's like, so many effective methods of all those, you know? Like, if you go about it-

• 11:02Jocko Willink?

  But mine is the best.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  Mine is the best, and if you say yours is the best, that means mine's not the best. Now, I'm wrong. No, no, I'm a different person than I thought I was, cuz, you know, and a lot of times, we dedicate like, a certain amount of our brain power to these things. Like, consider like, um, like diet, it's literally how you freaking sustain yourself, right? How you fuel your system, you only got one life, one body, whatever.

• 11:23Jocko Willink?

  That is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground Podcast. So if you wanna continue to listen, go to jacoundground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms, so we are not subject to their control. And we're doing this so that we can support the Jocko Podcast, which will remain, as is, free for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us.

• 12:03Jocko Willink?

  And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now, where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So, thank you, it's jacoundground.com. It costs eight dollars and eighteen cents a month, and if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email [email protected], and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.