Why Tracee Ellis Ross Stopped Waiting to Be Chosen

Tracee Ellis Ross joins Keke for an unforgettable conversation about building a life on your own terms. She talks about making her Broadway debut in Every Brilliant Thing, growing up with her mom, Diana Ross, and childhood encounters with icons like Marvin Gaye and Lucille Ball. And Tracee has the stories, from confidently correcting Michael Jackson on his own lyrics to memories from the set of Girlfriends and some truly terrible dates. Then they play “Acting Casual,” a dating game of awkward flirting. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Keke Palmer?

  Today, I'm sitting down with the one and only Tracee Ellis Ross. You know her from Girlfriends, Blackish, Pattern Beauty, her iconic fashion, and now her Broadway debut in every brilliant thing. But beyond all of those accomplishments, Tracy has become part of a much bigger conversation about what it means to build a full life on your own terms. Okay, we are talking legacy, love, friendship, family, beauty, joy, solo travel, and the freedom that comes from trusting yourself instead of someone else's timeline. She is one of my favorite humans on the planet, no lie. Let's get into it, because baby, this is Keke Palmer, and this is Tracee Ellis Ross.

• 1:16Keke Palmer?

  Tracy!

• 1:17Speaker 01

  My girl!

• 1:21Keke Palmer?

  You look fabulous.

• 1:22Speaker 01

  Oh my God, you look fabulous.

• 1:22Keke Palmer?

  The fashion is always giving everything it needs to give. Hi! Come on, pull back.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  Okay, hold on a second. Hi, legs.

• 1:27Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  Hi, legs.

• 1:29Keke Palmer?

  I brought these legs out for you.

• 1:30Speaker 01

  Thanks, I'm so glad you brought them.

• 1:32Keke Palmer?

  Somebody's gotta have them, Kiki. You're back in New York in your city.

• 1:36Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, girl.

• 1:36Keke Palmer?

  Wait a minute, what's in your hands?

• 1:37Speaker 01

  It's a gift for you. Uh, I brought you, I brought you a little something. You are just too classy. I brought you a little something.

• 1:44Keke Palmer?

  My baby girl!

• 1:46Speaker 01

  Yes, but let me just move my ponytail.

• 1:48Keke Palmer?

  Kiki, experience freedom and joy. I just truly adore you.

• 1:54Speaker 01

  Ah, right back down here.

• 1:55Keke Palmer?

  You know that it gets to a point where it's like, I hope I don't fan out too much with her, so she can still be my friend.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  Oh my God, we're, yeah, no, you're good, girl.

• 2:04Keke Palmer?

  You're my favorite. I absolutely adore and love this packaging. Oh my gosh, these cards. So this is a QR code that I get to visit somewhere.

• 2:15Keke Palmer?

  Love the technology that's attached to this.

• 2:17Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So I made two frames. I made the Freedom Frame, uh, which is those. And then I also made the Truth Frame. May you experience freedom.

• 2:30Keke Palmer?

  I'm not letting him sit on my nose just so I don't mess up my makeup.

• 2:32Speaker 01

  You don't want to mess up your makeup. But it's fierce. You can block the haters.

• 2:36Keke Palmer?

  Baby.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  You can block the haters.

• 2:38Keke Palmer?

  Can I just tell you that I'm really happy that I get to be in this product era of Tracey Ellis Ross?

• 2:42Speaker 01

  Oh my God.

• 2:43Keke Palmer?

  I'm so happy for getting every product. First of all, they're top of the line. You know, pattern, love and adore what you've been able to accomplish with that company. From the great product it is, but also as a businesswoman. I talked, we talked about that over dinner. It's not easy. Anybody who starts something would know that. And so now that we're getting glasses.

• 3:02Speaker 01

  It took 10 years for the love of God. Yeah. I mean, you know, it all started actually with the JCPenney clothes that I did.

• 3:08Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  It gave me the, well, we can talk about that, but it was the.

• 3:13Keke Palmer?

  But you just saw that it could be.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  It was the beginning and I always wanted to do the hair. I've been trying to do that forever, but when the JCPenney thing actually happened, one of my thoughts was, could I make enough money here to put it towards the dream that I actually want to be doing?

• 3:27Keke Palmer?

  Yes. Cause it's an investment.

• 3:29Speaker 01

  It's an investment. It's a journey. It's like, and it's a trial and error. It's like learning something new. But anyway, I jumped in, but yes. Little gift for you so you can block the haters.

• 3:39Keke Palmer?

  I love my gift, girl. I can't wait to be outside.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Just outside, just like, ooh, who you, if you're looking at me, I'm not looking at you.

• 3:45Keke Palmer?

  Yes. Okay, we'll start when I pretty sure pull up.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  Okay, do it.

• 3:49Keke Palmer?

  Now, it's so funny because you kind of created your own name. I mean, your dad is Ellis Silverstein.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 3:55Keke Palmer?

  Obviously your mom is Ross.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  Do you want to know the story?

• 3:58Keke Palmer?

  Please give me the story.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  Cause it's so, when I explain it, you're like, oh, I see. So I was born Tracey Joy Silverstein. My middle name is Joy. That's what's on my birth certificate. And then Tracy Joy Ross Silverstein became the name that I had all through grade school. So I was TJRS.

• 4:17Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  And I don't know where, what, why, I don't know what that was. I don't know, I don't know. And then we lost Silverstein because my dad, this is so, it's so ridiculous. My dad and my dad is Robert Ellis Silverstein, but he goes by Bob Ellis. And him and his wife, my stepmom are Bob and Susan Ellis. So we dropped Silverstein because

• 4:39Keke Palmer?

  Why no Silverstein? I love Silverstein.

• 4:41Speaker 01

  I love Silverstein too. I love Silverstein.

• 4:43Keke Palmer?

  They just wanted it out of there.

• 4:43Speaker 01

  S I L B R S T I N. You know what I mean? Okay, my, my, my, my family, my, my family was probably silversmiths back in the day when they came through Ellis I, you know what I mean? However, um, we all dropped Silverstein. I became Tracy Joy Ross. And then, here's the key. When I joined SAG, there, I was, you know, you don't, nobody uses their middle name, you're Tracy Ross. And when I joined SAG, there was another Tracy Ross. Remember Tracy, no, you're too young. Tracy Ross from Star Search.

• 5:11Keke Palmer?

  Oh, wow. I remember Star Search, though. I tried to get up on there.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  Was the, oh.

• 5:16Keke Palmer?

  It led me through.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  Well, you know what, Kiki? You did fine. I think, I think we're, I think we're okay. We can let go of that resentment.

• 5:22Keke Palmer?

  Literally, I'm still holding on to it.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  No, no, we can, we can drop that grudge, okay? You did it. All right? Okay, anyway, so, uh, there was another Tracy Ross. And so I could put Joy in my name and be Tracy Joy Ross. But I really wanted, when my name hit the screen, for everyone to know that I was not just my mom's daughter, but also my dad's daughter. And so I am Tracee Ellis Ross, so that every time I'm up there, Bob Ellis knows that's my kid. And Diana Ross knows that's also my kid.

• 5:52Keke Palmer?

  And it's like she's proud of us both.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 5:55Keke Palmer?

  Which is just so kick ass. My son, I always thought about adding like Palmer to it, but if he wanted to, I would, I mean, if he did like a situation like what you did, I would be just so thrilled.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  It just, I don't know, it just felt, yeah, it felt right.

• 6:06Keke Palmer?

  It's the sweetest.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  And I also, when I was choosing names, which is a really fun thing to do, I was like, Tracee Ellis Ross sounds important.

• 6:14Keke Palmer?

  It really does.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  It ju, it sounds like I've, like gravitas.

• 6:17Keke Palmer?

  It, it's like Tracee Ellis Ross.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  It's Tracee Ellis Ross. It's a double E, a double L, a double S.

• 6:27Keke Palmer?

  You're crazy. I love that. Oh my gosh, I love that. Okay, boom, name down.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:32Keke Palmer?

  Now, your Zodiac sign.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Girl, guess, try and guess.

• 6:36Keke Palmer?

  You're so much fun. It's like you have to have some Sag in there. There has to be.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  Well, so I watch your show. I listen to your pod. I pod with you, Kix. So, I

• 6:49Keke Palmer?

  You did it all.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  I knew this question was coming, so I asked our dear friend Claude.

• 6:53Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, Claude broke it down for you. Come on, Anthropic.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  But Claude told me, and I've saved it into my notes.

• 6:59Keke Palmer?

  I'm so sorry.

• 7:00Speaker 01

  And, and by the way, the subject of the note is Kiki.

• 7:05Keke Palmer?

  I love that people know this about me.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, okay, so Scorpio sun.

• 7:09Keke Palmer?

  Okay, fabulous.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  Just duh.

• 7:10Keke Palmer?

  Fabulous.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  And I'm an October Scorpio, so it's the real deal. Uh, you know what I mean? I, I say that.

• 7:15Keke Palmer?

  She says, "So it's the real deal."

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I, I think those November Scorpios are different. Are my breasts showing? No.

• 7:21Keke Palmer?

  No.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  So, um.

• 7:23Keke Palmer?

  I was disappointed.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  I do have cute boobs. Okay. I'm crazy. Um, the core self, uh, do you want me, no, we don't need to read it.

• 7:31Keke Palmer?

  You can tell me just the top and then we can get into what you feel about it.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  You'll tell me. Okay, Scorpio sun, Leo moon.

• 7:37Keke Palmer?

  Leo moon. Fill that immediately.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  Really? What would that mean? What would that mean?

• 7:42Keke Palmer?

  Very sweet, vulnerable, loving.

• 7:45Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 7:45Keke Palmer?

  But also, don't play with me. You don't let nobody play with you.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 7:49Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, no, I know that personally with you. You, please.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  No.

• 7:54Keke Palmer?

  You know, but so loving. You guys are so, like, give the, give the ends of the world.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  I love this.

• 7:59Keke Palmer?

  You know, I love that about the Leo.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  Uh, Taurus rising?

• 8:02Keke Palmer?

  Taurus rising. That matches too.

• 8:03Speaker 01

  What would that mean?

• 8:04Keke Palmer?

  Well, every Taurus I know is really, really attractive, so that checks out. They're so cute. See, I don't know how they got blessed with the cute factor. And then also stubborn. I don't know about that with you. Do you feel that you're stubborn?

• 8:15Speaker 01

  No, I'm not stubborn.

• 8:15Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah, that, that's like.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  The Taurus's I know are stubborn.

• 8:18Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 8:19Speaker 01

  I am not stubborn.

• 8:20Keke Palmer?

  You feel Scorpio heavy.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  I am Scorpio heavy. I don't know a lot about signs. Um, I dated one Scorpio man and I was just like, I don't want to date myself.

• 8:30Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  I'm not looking for that. I'm, I'm enough. I'm a lot.

• 8:34Keke Palmer?

  I do not want to date no Virgo man. That is the last thing I would do.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  Who, I really, I like the Pisces, but I felt like I was gonna run them over.

• 8:42Keke Palmer?

  Oh, they're so sweet.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  It was so sweet.

• 8:44Keke Palmer?

  Cancers, vroom, vroom.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  Vroom, vroom.

• 8:46Keke Palmer?

  Love them down, though.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  I've, yeah, okay.

• 8:48Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  Scorpio, what am I like? I, I felt like when I read this, can I read this? Cause I thought this, I thought this was good.

• 8:54Keke Palmer?

  Cause it's probably like very independent.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  It says, "The core self, this is your fundamental drive, intense, private, all or nothing. Scorpios associated with depth over surface. You're drawn to what's hidden." That is correct. I'm drawn to what's hidden. You don't do small talk easily. Correct. And when you commit to something or someone, it's total.

• 9:16Keke Palmer?

  Whoa.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  There's a strong will here and a knack of seeing through people. The shadow side is a tendency towards control. Yeah. I've done a lot of work on that, though. Yes, that's correct. I've done, I've done my work, my homework. Um, uh, toward control, brooding or holding grudges. But no, I, I'm not a...

• 9:35Keke Palmer?

  I've had to do some work. I'm currently still doing some work on that grudge holding. I've, I've always had a little bit of that. When I was younger, I used to always just, yeah, just, you know, hold on. Like I just brought up star search, like star, why would I do that?

• 9:47Speaker 01

  I mean, that's interesting. I, I was trying to think if I've done work on that or this, I just naturally didn't have that. But I understand that. I really understand it.

• 9:54Keke Palmer?

  I've always felt like Scorpios and Virgos were like twins. But Scorpios were not so passive. Where sometimes Virgos can, we can try to just so hard to hold it in and just try to be so like, no big deal. You guys expose it. And I think it's better that you like, get it out, you say it, you're like, you know what I mean?

• 10:15Speaker 01

  That is very... But it's also the way my family is. Like we, it's like you say it and then it's done. Like I am, I don't know, with my siblings, I can go from zero to 150 in a fight in two seconds. And then five minutes later, what are we doing for dinner?

• 10:28Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  Who?

• 10:29Keke Palmer?

  Because you got it, because you, you didn't hold it in and play around. That's a good quality. I love that about every Scorpio I know.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  I think the reason I don't hold grudges, though, is because I don't have a great memory. I'm one of those people who will be like in the middle of hugging someone and be like, I think I'm mad at them. Why? I don't remember. Oh, well, hi. Like, I just, it's not, it does.

• 10:51Keke Palmer?

  That's when you know you're too happy and good in life. Like, what do I have time to hold on to this for?

• 10:55Speaker 01

  I feel like it's a memory issue. Personally. I mean, I like that take on it, Kiki.

• 11:01Keke Palmer?

  Hilarious.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  I don't know, your posture is so good.

• 11:04Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh, thank you. I feel like I have to in this dress because it's so, you know what I mean?

• 11:07Speaker 01

  OK, I got you.

• 11:08Keke Palmer?

  I don't want to be like, boop-boop.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, well, either one of us could be boop-boop, but it'll be a great episode. Do you know what I mean? It'll just be boop and a boop.

• 11:15Keke Palmer?

  Our parents have the same birthday. My only reason why I know is because, obviously, your mother's Diana Ross and my dad has always been obsessed with her. He's like, you know, I got the same birthday as Diana Ross. You know, me and Diana Ross, she had the same birthday. So I always think about that. My dad, March 26th, right?

• 11:28Speaker 01

  Oh, yes.

• 11:28Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, my dad always, he let me know, I knew it all my life. Very random, but I always knew it. What is your love language?

• 11:35Speaker 01

  Do you know, I don't know.

• 11:37Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, you never did one of the little tests?

• 11:38Speaker 01

  I did, and...

• 11:39Keke Palmer?

  You didn't agree?

• 11:40Speaker 01

  No, no, no, I don't remember.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  Which, by the way, is why I had to do this. Do you know how many times I've had more horoscopes done?

• 11:47Keke Palmer?

  I wonder what it is.

• 11:48Speaker 01

  And I just, I remember things that feel important to me.

• 11:53Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  So I have an impeccable memory with certain things and with things that sort of don't, I don't know, don't hold a place in my heart.

• 12:01Keke Palmer?

  How does it work with, like, your lines and stuff?

• 12:02Speaker 01

  Very easy.

• 12:04Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  Because I can remember stories. I remember stories. Short-term memory is good, like, I'm black as you could have given me a script that day and we were fine. But like this, for every brilliant thing, it's different, it's long-term memory.

• 12:18Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 12:19Speaker 01

  So for me, it's about inhabiting story.

• 12:21Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  And understanding, because, you know, you could tell me a story about your life and spend two hours telling me with detail.

• 12:27Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 12:28Speaker 01

  And it wouldn't be like, oh, I can't remember.

• 12:29Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  For me, it's the same thing, and so what I try and do is discover who this person's, who this person is, that part of me that is that person, and learn the story.

• 12:39Keke Palmer?

  I really relate to that because, once you know that, there's only so many places it can go for that archetype in this world, in this situation.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  And then you know who they are. And no matter what the sort of scenario is, you understand it.

• 12:51Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  And you've placed yourself in their experience.

• 12:55Keke Palmer?

  And have you guys already start, you haven't started? And even the rehearsals for every brilliant thing.

• 12:59Speaker 01

  No, I'm in the studying process.

• 13:01Keke Palmer?

  You're in the studying process. Well, let you know this is the project you wanted to do. I know we'll get into it, but I just, since we brought it up now, what, what made you say, okay, you know what, I'll do that?

• 13:08Speaker 01

  Um, for me, always, it's about the material.

• 13:11Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 13:12Speaker 01

  And so there's, since I was early and young as an actor, whenever I'm reading something and I start without realizing it, reading it out loud.

• 13:21Keke Palmer?

  Yes. Oh, my gosh. I know what you mean with that because like, I really want to be this girl.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  I, it's fascinating.

• 13:26Keke Palmer?

  Now, now I want to be this girl.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  And then I want to keep reading because I want to be like.

• 13:29Keke Palmer?

  Feel you on that.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  Right?

• 13:31Keke Palmer?

  When I start feeling like you want to start trying out the voice. You want to try her out for size.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  So that's the first thing that leans in.

• 13:37Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  Um, which is like, I love being an artist in that way.

• 13:41Keke Palmer?

  I know.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, get me in there. So that's so fun, right? The second thing is, and you and I both have the same thing where there's a sense of abandon and freedom that, I was trying to explain that to somebody. What I do allows me to feel absolute freedom regularly.

• 14:02Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  It's extraordinary.

• 14:03Keke Palmer?

  It is extraordinary.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  It's an extraordinary thing.

• 14:05Keke Palmer?

  Experience.

• 14:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's really magical.

• 14:07Keke Palmer?

  Be trapped in one idea of anything.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  It's amazing and it gives you that opportunity to always think of how other people would think of that and, and then, because no one thinks they're a bad person. No one thinks they're stupid. No one thinks they're crazy. So it's actually people who aren't, are crazy, don't think they're crazy.

• 14:25Keke Palmer?

  They know exactly why, how they got there.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  Exactly. And so that's really fun. So the first is the voice. Then, um, at this point in my career, the fun part is sort of going past that. Um, who is this person in this world? What is this world? What is the actual story? And then who are the players? Who are the people involved?

• 14:44Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  What about this feels like it moves, um, what I want in life forward?

• 14:49Keke Palmer?

  And this show is all just you.

• 14:51Speaker 01

  Yes, ma'am.

• 14:52Keke Palmer?

  So this is very. Girl, that's like, you know.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  Kiki, it's my dream.

• 14:58Keke Palmer?

  Yes. Kiki, put me on the stage.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  Scorpio.

• 15:00Keke Palmer?

  Kiki.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  Kiki, everyone's like, oh, my God, are you scared? It's just you. I'm like, no, it's just me.

• 15:05Keke Palmer?

  You're like, it's just me.

• 15:05Speaker 01

  I don't have to share with anybody. No, what I feel about it is two things. I'm screaming.

• 15:13Keke Palmer?

  That is so scorpion, by the way.

• 15:14Speaker 01

  Number one, um, my favorite thing in life is connecting with people.

• 15:20Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  Um, even when I do speaking engagements, I love it when the house lights are up.

• 15:24Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  There's nothing better to me than telling a story, but to someone.

• 15:31Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 15:31Speaker 01

  And so the way this piece is set up, from the moment I read it, I was just like, oh my God. It's just, I'm telling a story. It's a story that exists. It is not my story. The story is strung together by a list of everything brilliant worth living for. From the smallest to the biggest to, uh, kazoo's to, you know what I mean? Just like the most delicious thing. So that perspective for me felt beautiful. But it is told with the house lights up in participation with the audience. You are in it together. So, um, there's a little bit of improv because a few people from the audience,

• 16:14Speaker 01

  uh, play certain roles in the story that I'm telling. Um, and I'm the host, for lack of a better word, in the room. And I get to be in this exchange and the material is so buoyant. I was so sweet. My mom said, what do you mean by that?

• 16:33Keke Palmer?

  Right. I thought the same thing. Thanks. That's your mama ass. I was like buoyant. I'll be writing it down later.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  My, my mom was like, what is this language you're speaking? What does this mean, my dear daughter? And I said, oh, well, I said, imagine this, mom. Imagine not a balloon that feels airy, but a ball on the pool that never will sink.

• 16:58Keke Palmer?

  Hmm.

• 16:59Speaker 01

  But yet it can fly and there's a lightness to it. So it is a, it is a piece about mental health. It is about suicide and depression, but it is one of the most life-affirming, beautiful pieces of material I've ever read, and it's buoyant. It is, um, filled with all of the humanity that makes you want to live and want to live in connection with community, with other people. Because we are all doing this together despite what, you know, is being preached and put forward.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  The call of humanity is to do it in community and to do it with each other.

• 17:40Keke Palmer?

  You are so excellent with these complex emotions. And I always bring this up and I have to bring it up again on the podcast because everybody knows me, Girlfriends is one of my favorite shows of all time.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  I mean, you're a little bit dressed like Maya.

• 17:53Keke Palmer?

  Come on, Maya. Maya, in that first season, like, I'm 25. Joan, I'm so tired of you being 25. You were 25 when we met. Like, I literally, every single episode, every single season, all the growth of the characters, but there's one particular moment that always sticks out for me and it makes me cry every time that I watch it.

• 18:11Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, which one?

• 18:11Keke Palmer?

  It's the episode when you are talking to Ellis about...

• 18:15Speaker 01

  I'm happy for my friend.

• 18:15Keke Palmer?

  I'm happy for my friend! Girl!

• 18:20Speaker 01

  Oh, I get chills.

• 18:21Keke Palmer?

  That scene, "I'm happy for, I'm happy for my friend, I'm happy for my, I'm happy for my..."

• 18:26Speaker 01

  I'm happy for my friend.

• 18:28Keke Palmer?

  It's so...

• 18:28Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God. I can go back there in two seconds.

• 18:31Keke Palmer?

  It's, it's so excellent.

• 18:34Speaker 01

  Can I tell you some stuff about that moment?

• 18:35Keke Palmer?

  Please, please.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  That was so beautiful.

• 18:44Keke Palmer?

  We are at the peak right now. This is it. July is the absolute top of summer. The most committed, most alive, most everything month of the entire year. The days are long, the energy is high, and everyone you love is finally available at the same time. This is the month summer delivers on everything it promised back in January when you were cold and optimistic. Okay, okay, so, my friends and I found this home on Airbnb in Turks and Caicos, perfect for a little couples getaway. Beachfront, palm trees, private, secluded, the kind of place where you look around and genuinely cannot see another soul and you think, oh, it's just us. The whole world disappeared and all that was left was our little group on this beach

• 19:29Keke Palmer?

  like we had been dropped there by the universe specifically. Somebody's situationship got on the grill and did not disappoint. He was clearly prepared because he brought the sandals and everything. And moments like that, moments where everyone gathers around food that somebody actually cooked outside with the ocean right there, it was the kind of trip you stop trying to document because you're too busy enjoying it.

• 19:53Keke Palmer?

  We found that stay on Airbnb and it's set the bar for every couples trip I take for the rest of my life. This is what peak summer can feel like, when the space is right. Find a home on Airbnb this summer and meet the moment. Peak summer is not waiting for you to get ready. There are two versions of me at any given moment. There's the version that is on the way somewhere, locked in, unbothered, do not interrupt me, I have a purpose. And then there's the version that sees a Starbucks and just turns, mid-stride with absolutely no hesitation. The second one is my favorite version, especially in the summer. I'm the one who orders a tropical butterfly refresher, guava and passion fruit flavors, these mango pineapple flavored pearls that pop in your mouth, and a butterfly pea

• 20:36Keke Palmer?

  flower infusion on top that just shifts the color of the whole drink right in front of you. And I stand there watching it happen like it's the most important thing that happened all week, because it might be. One small choice can lead to a whole shift. Unlock your best summer memories with the tropical butterfly refresher from Starbucks. Order now on the app.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  There were, I think, four "I'm happy for my friends" lines. There was only four of them. And I was like, you can't tell me how long it takes to get where I need to go.

• 21:13Keke Palmer?

  That's so true.

• 21:15Speaker 01

  And I didn't know how long it would take for me to go where I needed to go. And I don't know why I can't think of that actor's name, holy moly.

• 21:24Keke Palmer?

  Yes, he's from British. He's British. Oh, my gosh. I know his character on the show, name was Ellis. And he was an actor. You dated him for a while on the show.

• 21:32Speaker 01

  And he played the lobster, remember?

• 21:33Keke Palmer?

  Yep, he played the lobster. And then I took, and then he said, "We're fishing for lobster." Joan, he thought she had something going on with him. I never saw it for y'all personally on the show. I was tired of you and Ellis. The one I wanted you with was the sex addict.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  That was Don Dre.

• 21:50Keke Palmer?

  I loved him and you.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  What was his name?

• 21:53Keke Palmer?

  On the show.

• 21:54Speaker 01

  Oh, that was Adrian Lester was Ellis.

• 21:56Keke Palmer?

  But you and the man, this man that was a sex. Oh, I hated, I didn't get why Joan didn't take her ass to New York. Just why didn't Joan do that?

• 22:07Speaker 01

  This is fantastic.

• 22:08Keke Palmer?

  Anyway, sorry.

• 22:09Speaker 01

  By the way, I still have that dress.

• 22:11Keke Palmer?

  Which?

• 22:12Speaker 01

  I can get it up my knee.

• 22:15Speaker 01

  I was so skinny. I was so skinny. I feel like in my older age that I'm at now that I'm heading back to that skinny place because like I've lost some of my thickness.

• 22:24Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh. How did it happen?

• 22:25Speaker 01

  I believe it's just getting older. I don't know. My muscle mass is cutting itself in half. I mean, I'm going with it. You know what I mean? I'm going with it. I'm loving it, embracing it. But literally sometimes.

• 22:35Keke Palmer?

  Screaming.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  Sometimes I'm like, where is my thick? And then sometimes I turn around and I go, oh, it's still there.

• 22:41Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 22:42Speaker 01

  Different place, but it's also not the same thick. I don't know.

• 22:45Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  It's all different.

• 22:46Keke Palmer?

  Our bodies change.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  They change and whatever.

• 22:47Keke Palmer?

  Womenhood.

• 22:48Speaker 01

  I'm just very grateful that it's still holding me up. You know what I mean?

• 22:51Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 22:51Speaker 01

  Um, but I still have that dress and I just remember that moment and I remember that take was that take. Um, and it was such a, that was such a moment, but also that was such a time. You know what? A thing, Kiki, that's so crazy. I spent 173 episodes for eight years talking about not being chosen.

• 23:12Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 23:13Speaker 01

  And when I came out of that show, I didn't realize how much my cells had taken that on, that, that sense of story. And, um, you know, a lot of people, uh, I talk very publicly about the idea of being the chooser. And I think, I don't think I did it consciously to talk publicly about it. But it was a way for me unconsciously to reclaim that I am the chooser.

• 23:42Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  That I am, I am worthy of choosing the right partner and that I don't have to sit around being a prize to wait to be chosen, that I am actually, which goes back to how you intro'd me, you know? Um, that I am, I am responsible for my own happiness.

• 23:59Keke Palmer?

  But I feel like that's why that character. is so meaningful to me and I think it's a rite of passage to go through the process of watching girlfriends and falling in love with Joan and realizing that Joan was her biggest issue was that she always was the chooser and she pretended that she wasn't.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  And she just didn't know.

• 24:15Keke Palmer?

  She didn't know because when she when when old boy wanted to marry her. She found a reason not to. When she found the opportunity with William, her long friend, she she that really was never meant to be her storyline. But we're told so much as women and I I relate so much to Joan. I relate so much to what you talk about because I've always felt that way about myself.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  I mean, we've talked about it a lot, yeah.

• 24:36Keke Palmer?

  All the time because it's like I I don't know why the world decides that what validates me is this. And but the truth is like, what if I'm genuinely telling you that I do love love, I do love experience, but I I'm not attached to a particular outcome. Why don't you believe me? You know?

• 24:56Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, it's a real thing. I mean, you don't want to go to the big archetypes, but it's patriarchy, it's ageism, it's sexism, it's misogynoir. It's all of these things and they have a they have a name for a reason.

• 25:08Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 25:08Speaker 01

  You know, and I think for me, growing up, I never I didn't know. I thought it was my own personal um albatross, my own personal failing, my own personal self hatred. Like I I named it all the things for so many years. I at all the things and all of the things I named it were my fault. You know, I mean, all the things I named it.

• 25:32Keke Palmer?

  Because I'm not fitting.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  Correct. And, you know, you and I, we've talked about this.

• 25:36Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 25:36Speaker 01

  I mean, you know what I mean? I mean, listen, if Kiki, if Kiki and I were made, if if there's a soup where they're making people, Kiki and I were probably in the same soup.

• 25:44Keke Palmer?

  The same soup.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Was same soup.

• 25:46Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 25:46Speaker 01

  Might have came out on different ends and different states and different places, but same soup.

• 25:50Keke Palmer?

  Same soup.

• 25:51Speaker 01

  You know, I mean, full identity. Like, I I came out like this. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. Like, I'm a person who knows who I am. And I I feel like I always have and I feel like you always have.

• 26:02Keke Palmer?

  Always.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  I mean, we've seen you from, I mean, what was the first one, the the bee?

• 26:06Keke Palmer?

  Yep, Akilah the bee.

• 26:07Speaker 01

  Akilah the bee, was that the first one?

• 26:08Keke Palmer?

  Yep, that was the well, the first one that people really were like, oh, you know, where we would know, yeah.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  Where we were like, who's that?

• 26:14Keke Palmer?

  Exactly.

• 26:14Speaker 01

  Um, and so, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh.

• 26:17Keke Palmer?

  I always think about the fact that you're the original Blue Ivy.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  Rhonda really is.

• 26:22Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, Rhonda.

• 26:24Speaker 01

  My older sister.

• 26:24Keke Palmer?

  Shout out to Rhonda.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, Berry Gordy and Dina Ross, she's the original.

• 26:28Keke Palmer?

  Yes, it's so true.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  I'm not sure where you would put me, but you know, Maya Rudolph, me, Rashida Jones.

• 26:33Keke Palmer?

  Oh, yeah.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  We're in that camp. We're over there. Iconic children.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  Who all have really, you know, claimed our identity.

• 26:43Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, in incredible ways.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  Outside of our parents' embrace and their, the way that they've paved, that they paved and the space that they created, not only in the industry but for us. But yeah, that's so funny.

• 26:56Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. Insane.

• 26:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:58Keke Palmer?

  Okay, what's a question you wish you were asked more in interviews? If there is one?

• 27:04Speaker 01

  I don't know. I don't think there, I mean.

• 27:07Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, you get, I mean, you get so many cool questions because everybody knows you're so smart, so it's, I feel like, we can, feels like we can ask you anything.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I feel like, I don't feel afraid to be asked anything, because if I don't want to answer it, I just won't. You know what I mean? Like, I don't feel afraid to say, "I'm not answering that." I've said that to people. I remember we went through a phase, I went through a phase, like during Blackish, where I swear to God, people were asking me why I hadn't had children and had I thought about it. And I remember saying to one person on camera, I said, "Will you get out of my womb?" And she was like, "Oh." I said, "No, but really, like, why are you asking me that question? That's insane."

• 27:45Keke Palmer?

  Because what can I say?

• 27:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm like, and all [BLEEP] kids. And why am I having that conversation with you?

• 27:49Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, like, so much.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  Like, I was like, I don't even understand what's happening right now. So bizarre. Stop.

• 27:53Keke Palmer?

  It's so true.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  I was like, stop. I, I am not.

• 27:56Keke Palmer?

  Sometimes interviewers take that interview [BLEEP] too far. Like, you know, come on now, girl. Now you're just trying to get into my butt.

• 28:01Speaker 01

  I literally felt like this.

• 28:02Keke Palmer?

  Business, mama. Yeah, like, you, it's not even an interview.

• 28:05Speaker 01

  Wait, is that vintage?

• 28:06Keke Palmer?

  This is your boy. Sergio Hudson.

• 28:09Speaker 01

  I, I was just gonna, yes, it is.

• 28:12Keke Palmer?

  Sergio, you know that.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  Our love bug.

• 28:14Keke Palmer?

  Our love bug. We love you, Sergio.

• 28:16Speaker 01

  We love you, Sergio.

• 28:17Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh, he's the best.

• 28:18Speaker 01

  What is not to love about you, Sergio?

• 28:19Keke Palmer?

  Those robes that you guys did the collaboration on for a pattern was so sickening.

• 28:23Speaker 01

  They were based on the robes my mom used to wear backstage.

• 28:29Keke Palmer?

  The fabulosity just consumes us.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  The fabulosity consumes. Do you know, I live in this milk. I don't know what I just said. Kiki, take it back, Kiki.

• 28:41Keke Palmer?

  You know what, did you ever work with, because I feel like you guys also remind me of each other and I would have loved to see you do movies, some movies like her, Diane Keaton. Did you guys ever?

• 28:51Speaker 01

  She directed me in my first film.

• 28:53Keke Palmer?

  You guys, I mean, you're just like, it's Annie Hall, like, it's like you have that kind of thing as well, where it's just like kooky fun, like, girl, like whimsy, like, ah, like, I'm so.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  So Diane Keaton, I would say Carol Burnett, Lucille Ball, Diane Keaton, I mean, come on.

• 29:08Keke Palmer?

  What?

• 29:09Speaker 01

  The archetype, the, the archetype of a lifetime. I mean, of a lifetime, of a lifetime, and it still holds up. Because you know what, it was humor from a different place, Kiki. It was not humor about making people feel bad, or people falling down, or whatever, it was, I mean, come on.

• 29:25Keke Palmer?

  It was so true, it was humor from the place of like, a real personification.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 29:30Keke Palmer?

  Like truly leaning into a character.

• 29:32Speaker 01

  Yes, and turn up that volume and you can't be too big.

• 29:36Keke Palmer?

  You can't be too.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  You can't be too big. I mean, Carol Burnett, but like Diane Keaton, for me, was one of those women who I saw age so beautifully.

• 29:46Keke Palmer?

  Yes, truly.

• 29:48Speaker 01

  And I saw, like, just, oh my god, and what I saw was, you can never, you will always be full of life if you laugh.

• 29:58Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  I mean, when she would smile, the entire world lit up.

• 30:03Keke Palmer?

  No, seriously.

• 30:04Speaker 01

  Just lit up. And I, I never want to stop smiling, I never want to stop giggling, I want my face to make all of that happen.

• 30:12Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, yes, it's so true, I feel the same way, that's why I hate when we get so much into this, I'm not saying people can't get theirself right, but it's like when we get so perfected, that we don't at least see the expression, we gotta still get the.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  Get out of here.

• 30:24Keke Palmer?

  Be the gag of it all.

• 30:25Speaker 01

  If you think of me on Blackish, half the time, I didn't say [BLEEP], okay, what I did was.

• 30:32Keke Palmer?

  What?

• 30:33Speaker 01

  I mean, that's all I did. I made faces. You say so much with your face. If my face doesn't move, and then now, everybody's obsessed. They're like, when I do this, there's wrinkles.

• 30:42Keke Palmer?

  But you need it.

• 30:43Speaker 01

  Well, this is my other thing, because like, my neck is getting a little bit looser, okay? It's just, it's like a touch.

• 30:48Keke Palmer?

  Nia Long scared me about the neck [BLEEP]. I've been moisturizing it like never before.

• 30:52Speaker 01

  You have to, darling.

• 30:53Keke Palmer?

  It's scary, the neck thing.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  Get your hands and wear that sunblock. I don't care that you're black. Put that sunblock on, okay? Because you know what? The ozone out there is gone. So it's gonna, it's gonna get you, okay?

• 31:05Keke Palmer?

  It's coming for you. And let me tell you something. We're all going in the same direction.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  So, my neck is, it's a little bit looser, okay? Whatever. And I thought, I kept, I was doing this the other day, and I was like, well, I mean, if you make it too tight, I don't know about you, but I want to keep looking this way, and I want to keep looking this way, and I want to look this way, and this way. I don't want it so tight I can't look this way. I want to know who's coming behind me. I want to know. You got to keep that neck where it goes.

• 31:31Keke Palmer?

  No, because sometimes that [BLEEP] gets too pulled.

• 31:33Speaker 01

  Too tight. You know, they're like, I want this jawline. I'm like, oh, come on, what are we doing?

• 31:38Keke Palmer?

  And you're gonna snap, it's gonna snap on you.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  You don't want that, Kiki.

• 31:41Keke Palmer?

  That's so scary. I don't want it.

• 31:43Speaker 01

  I don't want to cross my legs and my mouth opens. Do you know what I mean?

• 31:47Keke Palmer?

  Or like,

• 31:47Speaker 01

  Like, it's so tight.

• 31:48Keke Palmer?

  You're moving your eyes like.

• 31:49Speaker 01

  It's so tight, like, ah!

• 31:50Keke Palmer?

  It's so bad.

• 31:51Speaker 01

  No, I don't want it.

• 31:52Keke Palmer?

  Oh, no, no, no.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  Now, listen. Catch me in five years, I might have a different [BLEEP] story, and I don't want to hear [BLEEP]. Okay?

• 31:59Keke Palmer?

  Tracy, you look great.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. I support everybody making all the choices. You want to love yourself, whatever that looks like for you.

• 32:09Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  Um, but I also, for me, personally, I, I love the life in my face.

• 32:15Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 32:15Speaker 01

  I don't want to look like a baby dolphin.

• 32:22Speaker 01

  I don't want it, okay?

• 32:23Keke Palmer?

  It's too much.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  For today, it's too much.

• 32:25Keke Palmer?

  Um, last question for the pre-show pull-up, even though it's like,

• 32:27Speaker 01

  This is all the pre-show pull-ups?

• 32:28Keke Palmer?

  That we, we were so robust.

• 32:30Speaker 01

  I'm so dead.

• 32:31Keke Palmer?

  I love how robust we are.

• 32:32Speaker 01

  By the way, I have things that I wanted to talk to you about at dinner and forgot, and I said, I kept a list.

• 32:38Keke Palmer?

  Oh, [BLEEP]. I'm ready whenever.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  No, no, no.

• 32:40Keke Palmer?

  I cannot wait.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  Finish the pull-up. Finish the pull-up.

• 32:42Keke Palmer?

  The last one of the pull-up is, have you ever been starstruck? Was it, who?

• 32:46Speaker 01

  I'm so cursing. Okay, hold on. Okay, first of all.

• 32:49Keke Palmer?

  I cannot wait till you talk.

• 32:50Speaker 01

  I have been starstruck, first of all, in hindsight. Okay?

• 32:54Keke Palmer?

  Now, this is interesting.

• 32:55Speaker 01

  No, but in, in real life, Um, I met Lucille Ball. I presented to her. No, no, no, hold on, okay, hold on. I met Carol Burnett. I presented to her at the, what is it called? Is it Peabody Awards?

• 33:09Keke Palmer?

  Uh huh, the Peabody is incredible.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  And I thought, I was, I really, I really thought I was gonna lose it. But I was like, I got this, I got this, cuz it's Carol Burnett, okay? Um, I also met Lucille Ball as a kid. And before I met her, yeah, I know, before I met her, I was told that she was staying on the same hotel floor as us. And I kept going like this, Lucy, I'm home!

• 33:38Keke Palmer?

  Lucy, I'm home!

• 33:40Speaker 01

  I literally, I kept screaming it, and my sisters were like, will you shut up? And I was like, but she might hear me. Lucille Ball might hear, Lucy! Lucy, it's Tracy! Like, I just kept, she did not hear me, I don't think. But I did meet her, and, I mean, just stops, just hold the presses, like, close the doors, close the windows, like, what? Okay, I actually made a list because I've met some of the most extraordinary people. Andy Warhol painted me and my sisters.

• 34:08Keke Palmer?

  What?

• 34:08Speaker 01

  I met him. I was not starstruck, I was actually frightened.

• 34:13Keke Palmer?

  Well, probably the look, he had a very distinct look.

• 34:15Speaker 01

  I did not understand what was happening. It was, it was...

• 34:18Keke Palmer?

  He, I mean, I, I, I realized so much about Andy's work now as an adult that I didn't understand as a kid. And this kind of satirical reflective thing that he was always doing, that I feel...

• 34:30Speaker 01

  And creating sort of pop culture in art and mixing them in a way that is, it's kind of extraordinary.

• 34:36Keke Palmer?

  It's extraordinary, and obviously it's inspired where we are today, but I see that kind of meta-narrative happening in different mediums in a way that is very much like akin to what he introduced.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  By the way, speaking of that, um, I love that you know who Andy Warhol is. I love that you have a sense of like, what about it is interesting to you? And as I've gotten older, like, I think I thought museums were for... People who carried clutches and wore and smoked pipes. Do you know what I mean?

• 35:08Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  I don't know that I thought art was for me. And as an adult, I find, you know, Amy Sherald, Carol Walker, there are Theaster Gates.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  Knowing Thelma Golden, do you know Thelma Golden?

• 35:22Keke Palmer?

  No, Thelma do not know.

• 35:23Speaker 01

  You must know Thelma.

• 35:24Keke Palmer?

  I know Mickalene Thomas, I know Bisa Butler.

• 35:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 35:26Keke Palmer?

  But I'm getting a little into the stuff.

• 35:28Speaker 01

  Thelma Golden runs the Studio Museum of Harlem. She is a curator, she's a black woman, and she's an extraordinary human being. And she is sort of the epicenter of black art in our culture and in our country. And in the world, honestly. And I became friends with her and she walked me, it was the first time, I dated a visual artist back in the day.

• 35:55Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  And I went to a museum with him to see his work at LACMA. And I experienced art in a way that I had never experienced before when you're with the artist. Because you know, you're not supposed to touch it, it's far away, you know, don't get close. He was like, smell it, touch it, because he made it. And I, I was so blown away by that and it changed my relationship to art. And then when I went with Thelma Golden, she brought me to the opening of Kerry James Marshall's show in Los Angeles, his full retrospective. And she walked me through the exhibit. And to hear somebody who knows so much about art, explain and talk about a black artist and what it's, something will never leave me, can I tell you?

• 36:39Keke Palmer?

  Please, I'm so, I'm hanging on every word.

• 36:41Speaker 01

  What she said was Kerry James Marshall, and I don't even know if this is true, but it doesn't matter because of how it stayed with me. That when you're in art school, you learn how to create color based on white, the white color of paint. So you mix with white as the base to create color. And I don't know a lot about color. Kerry creates skin tone using black as the base.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  And it creates this hue within blackness. That is, I mean, it's such a beautiful thing. And so, we talk about Andy Warhol and the art of Van Gogh. This is, you know, these different things that we grew up in school hearing about. But as you get older and you get to experience the breadth of art that has been born out of the black experience, it is phenomenal to me. There's a beautiful documentary that was on HBO that's worth seeing. Anyway.

• 37:41Keke Palmer?

  I love what you're speaking to because the entry point of art is, it needs to feel true to you. And I think that I only was able to look at Andy Warhol's work in a different way or even understand it in a different way after I had met Michaeline Thomas. And then honestly, even before that, a relationship that I had started to have with the restaurant Alenia in Chicago, where basically my entry point had to be that everybody is storytelling in their medium. I did not understand it that way. I didn't understand, I didn't realize that storytelling wasn't just something that, how I know it narratively or in film and television and writing.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  That there's all these different ways to enter.

• 38:20Keke Palmer?

  And so, when I started doing it with food and seeing about it with food and then I met Michaeline and I've started to really understand art as that, in that way.

• 38:27Speaker 01

  That's a beautiful way of expressing it.

• 38:28Keke Palmer?

  Then it became easier for me to get involved with it. So, I definitely need to go check out them.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  And also movement, dance. I mean, that's a language that is extraordinary. Visual language, graphic design and all of that. I find, I find that any form of authentic expression lights my soul up.

• 38:48Keke Palmer?

  Me too.

• 38:48Speaker 01

  Just lights my soul up.

• 38:52Keke Palmer?

  I mean.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Oh, wait, I have more people.

• 38:54Keke Palmer?

  Okay, yes.

• 38:54Speaker 01

  In hindsight, because I didn't know how exciting it was, but Marvin Gaye.

• 39:00Keke Palmer?

  Oh, you met Marvin Gaye?

• 39:03Speaker 01

  He used to call the house all the time. "Mom, it's Marvin!"

• 39:08Keke Palmer?

  Now, "Mom" is Marvin.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  "Mom, it's Michael!"

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Um.

• 39:16Speaker 01

  By the way, I have a great story from childhood.

• 39:18Keke Palmer?

  Evan sounds just like Michael.

• 39:19Speaker 01

  I know. I think he was very influenced by that.

• 39:23Keke Palmer?

  Evan, he's like, hey, hey, hey, yo.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  Evan's music right now is, has he sent you stuff?

• 39:28Keke Palmer?

  He has.

• 39:29Speaker 01

  It's so good.

• 39:29Keke Palmer?

  Evan's always been good, but Evan kills me because every time I see him, I'm like, did you see this with my mom? This is in 1999.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  I know, he loves her.

• 39:36Keke Palmer?

  It's the, if Leo doesn't act like that about me, I'm blowing a gasket.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  Here's the thing about Evan and mom that I realized, because I was like, dude, what is the deal? Like, okay, I get it, I've seen the picture. He, I lived it.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  He didn't.

• 39:51Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, you, because you saw her in the main.

• 39:55Speaker 01

  I was in it. It was the mom that came home every night.

• 39:59Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, girl, that's crazy.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  So I lived it, he didn't, so he's experiencing what I lived through the pictures and the videos that he finds.

• 40:08Keke Palmer?

  It's the sweetest thing.

• 40:10Speaker 01

  It is the sweetest thing in the world.

• 40:11Keke Palmer?

  You say my mom, my mom, she's just so awesome, man.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  I know.

• 40:14Keke Palmer?

  Look at my mom, she's always been a diva.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  Does he ever show you pictures of him? I'm joking.

• 40:19Speaker 01

  Isn't that me? Is this my mom?

• 40:21Keke Palmer?

  Neat.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Okay, whatever.

• 40:22Keke Palmer?

  Marvin Gaye is nuts.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  Michael, oh, here's my Michael story, and then we'll get off of the.

• 40:27Keke Palmer?

  Oh, gosh, please.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  The starstruck. Steve, I, I did recently meet Martin Short at a valet.

• 40:32Keke Palmer?

  Oh, Martin Short.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  And I thought I was gonna, I was like, I love you, I love you, I love you.

• 40:35Keke Palmer?

  That's how I felt with Steve Martin, too.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  I also cried when I met Annie Lamott, the writer.

• 40:39Keke Palmer?

  Now, Annie Lamott?

• 40:40Speaker 01

  She's a wonderful writer, and I love her.

• 40:43Keke Palmer?

  What do I know that? A book?

• 40:44Speaker 01

  Books. And I, I, I met her and I was like, I just really love you, and I made an ugly cry.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  Michael. Uh, my mom was on the phone in her room, and she said, does anyone want to talk to Michael before I hang up? And I said, yes. And I came and I said, Michael? Everybody at school? I'm scared as hell.

• 41:07Keke Palmer?

  Because what did you say?

• 41:08Speaker 01

  That you're just saying, I'm a same, I'm a same, I'm a same, I'm a same. But I know what you're saying, and I told them, because I know you, I said, you're saying, I've been saying by the sound of Michael's song, I've been saying by the sound of Michael's song. And he said, I'm not, but it should be.

• 41:23Speaker 01

  But that's what I thought he was saying. And I kept telling, you know how when you're a kid, you're like, "My dad's a police officer." You know how you like, put whatever? But I was like, "I know him. I know Michael. And he told me." That's what he's saying. He's been, "You've been saved by the sound of Michael's song." Every time he's singing, that's what you're singing. "I've been saved by the sound of Michael's song." I'm gonna ask him. No, it's not what he was saying.

• 41:42Keke Palmer?

  Yo, I've been saved by the sound of Michael's song.

• 41:45Speaker 01

  "I've been saved by the sound of Michael's song." "I've been saved by the sound of Michael's song."

• 41:51Speaker 01

  You don't even-

• 41:51Keke Palmer?

  Yo, I love "I've been saved by the sound of Michael's song."

• 41:54Speaker 01

  I mean, how many people have been saved by the sound of Michael's song? I mean, duh.

• 41:59Keke Palmer?

  Yo, that is really funny. "I've been saved by the sound of Michael's song." That's way better than my dad thinking he said, "The Ched is not my son."

• 42:06Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 42:07Keke Palmer?

  Why would that be it, Dad?

• 42:08Speaker 01

  I don't know, but-

• 42:09Keke Palmer?

  "The Ched is not my..." Who the **** is Ched?

• 42:10Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 42:11Keke Palmer?

  "The Ched is not my son."

• 42:12Speaker 01

  But maybe that was his name, Ched. But like, do you remember? By the way, I want everyone to know that I have my arms crossed like this and I look like I'm upset because my armpits are sweaty. So, this is not my posture. My posture is really like this. But this is a problem. Okay, okay, anyway, so-

• 42:31Keke Palmer?

  And I'm also like this because I'm afraid I'm gonna give him a shirt down.

• 42:35Speaker 01

  We got, whatever, that's fine. You know what? This is what I always say to people when they get upset on set. And they're like, "Oh, you got your hair, it's not matching." I'm like, "Listen, if my acting is, if you are focused on my hair, my acting is not cutting it."

• 42:47Keke Palmer?

  Period.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  So our conversation-

• 42:48Keke Palmer?

  It should be so good. They shouldn't care how bed ragged we look.

• 42:51Speaker 01

  You don't even know. You, they don't know. They don't know. Uh-uh, but that's okay. But yes, I was saying something that I don't remember.

• 42:59Keke Palmer?

  We was talking about still Michael. We was talking about "I'm saved by the sound of Michael's song." How funny that is. How funny it is to get the lyrics to people's song wrong.

• 43:06Speaker 01

  "Sooner or later..." Do you know what I thought that was?

• 43:09Keke Palmer?

  What is it?

• 43:10Speaker 01

  "Send her a letter." What? What?

• 43:18Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, but I was singing it in the car once and my sister was like- "What'd you just say?"

• 43:22Keke Palmer?

  It's so crazy how we make up this stuff in our kids.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  And then you are in it and committed.

• 43:27Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, it's too funny.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  Okay, okay.

• 43:30Keke Palmer?

  I mean-

• 43:31Speaker 01

  I'm listening.

• 43:33Keke Palmer?

  We've talked about so much already.

• 43:35Speaker 01

  I know, I know.

• 43:35Keke Palmer?

  But I feel like I have to ask you, like-

• 43:37Speaker 01

  Go.

• 43:37Keke Palmer?

  Was it your intention to become-

• 43:40Speaker 01

  No.

• 43:42Speaker 01

  No, Kiki. No.

• 43:44Keke Palmer?

  Because you obviously reflect a version of womanhood that was not in media. You know what I mean? Truly, through your characters, through your work, and then even more so as a personality. When did it become something that you were like, "Oh, this is, this is unique for you guys. I should lean in." Or, "This is unique for you guys."

• 44:00Speaker 01

  No, so it actually goes further underneath that, which is that I leaned in because it's my truth. There has to be an example somewhere between Cat Ladies and Joan of Arc, okay?

• 44:13Keke Palmer?

  No, for real.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  Okay? All right, there's gotta be, there's gotta be some stuff in between. You know what I mean? Like, there's gotta be, you can be sexy and amazing and, and also want a partner and also live your life and also not wait and also, like, all the things.

• 44:28Keke Palmer?

  Just be human.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  Just do it, just go ahead. And I'm sorry it's so confronting for people to have a woman just live out loud. And, and, um, yeah, I don't, I don't know why that's so confronting for people. Um, it's puzzling to me, but there's a lot of things, Kiki, that I find puzzling, that I think that people get hung up on that I don't understand.

• 44:48Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 44:49Speaker 01

  I'm like, why is that so upsetting for you? That seems...

• 44:52Keke Palmer?

  I'm just being me, but I think it's because, I can't read people's mind, but what I've at least told myself when I'm experiencing this kind of big uphill battle for me just simply doing me is that a lot of people believed that they couldn't.

• 45:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yes.

• 45:05Keke Palmer?

  And they stayed there. And then they're seeing somebody succeed or be happy by not believing it. And then it be creates this resentment where it's like, "No, no, you're not allowed to have this because they told me."

• 45:16Speaker 01

  I don't know that I find it from the people that stayed small.

• 45:21Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 45:22Speaker 01

  I find that those are actually the people that feel empowered.

• 45:27Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  Or, um, a sense of courage comes from that, yes. Um, I find that it comes from people that it threatens their idea of who they want me to be so that they can get what they want.

• 45:42Keke Palmer?

  And it's like, what do you want from me?

• 45:43Speaker 01

  So it's, it's men that would prefer um a small lady. You know, I mean, I, that's not a fair way to put it.

• 45:51Keke Palmer?

  Maybe they're threat, it's like they feel as if this person's threatened than the status quo. If you feel like this is what you can do or who you can be and you feel empowered by that image, then in turn, it makes it, it makes it difficult for me to be able to have that kind of control or have that kind of, you know?

• 46:06Speaker 01

  I don't know. I mean, I really don't know.

• 46:07Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  And I really-

• 46:08Keke Palmer?

  You're just shooting the [BLEEP] on it.

• 46:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, you were shooting the [BLEEP] on it. I mean, you know, I try really hard not to try and get in people's heads and think what they're thinking. Cause I have no [BLEEP] idea. I mean, I'm bumbling along myself trying to figure out this life thing. You know what I mean?

• 46:22Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:23Speaker 01

  I don't know. But um, what I do push up against is anything that makes me feel small. I don't want it.

• 46:32Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 46:33Speaker 01

  I wanna be able to choose when I wanna be small or when I wanna be big or when I wanna be loud or when I wanna be quiet. I want that to be my choice. And I want it to be everyone's choice.

• 46:42Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  I really believe that. Um, and I don't know. I mean, I know, it's so funny. Sometimes people get so hung up on things I've said and I'm like, really? Was that something-

• 46:53Keke Palmer?

  Someone did it?

• 46:53Speaker 01

  Is it, that was the thing everyone wanted to talk about? Neat!

• 46:56Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  You know?

• 46:58Keke Palmer?

  I mean, I feel like it's so cool that you have such a strong sense of self, seeing as how you came from such a big legacy. That seems like something that could really weigh you down. People having expectations of you early on.

• 47:10Speaker 01

  I think it did when I was younger.

• 47:11Keke Palmer?

  How did you, was it your mom, was your mom encouraging you? Was it your life experiences? Like, how did you be able to not let that burden you? Even before you became, you know, famous in your own right?

• 47:20Speaker 01

  I mean, even from high school, I felt very aware of being um, watched.

• 47:26Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 47:26Speaker 01

  I, I remember, yeah, I felt very aware from a young age. I remember um, I was like, I can't get in the car with them. I don't know, I would always, you know, I'm a storyteller and-

• 47:37Keke Palmer?

  I love it.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  I'm very dramatic. So I was like, well, I can't get in the car with them, cause I don't know if they have drugs in the car. And then we get pulled over, then it's Dinaros's daughter has been pulled over and it's a, you know, it's a cautionary tale, you know?

• 47:48Keke Palmer?

  That stressed me out a lot as a kid.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  It was always, I always felt, I mean, then also as a black girl, you know, that we, it's always like you, you had to um-

• 47:58Keke Palmer?

  You had to overcompensate for so many perceived things about you.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 48:03Keke Palmer?

  I gotta be happy because you think I'm angry. I gotta be jazzy because you think I'm, you know.

• 48:06Speaker 01

  I gotta be smart because you think I'm dumb. I gotta be, I mean, like, whatever the, whatever the thing. Right? So, um, and I think that's a universal, um, experience where we share, you know.

• 48:18Keke Palmer?

  Without a doubt.

• 48:18Speaker 01

  And then there's the uniqueness of my mom and who she was and who, who she is. I shouldn't say was, but I meant was because I was a kid.

• 48:25Keke Palmer?

  I know what you meant.

• 48:25Speaker 01

  Um, so I don't know. I don't know what other people's thoughts. I mean, I did. I was scrolling through. I was looking for something I did and I was scroll. I don't really understand the TikTok.

• 48:36Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 48:37Speaker 01

  I like the TikTok.

• 48:38Keke Palmer?

  The UI is a little bit tough for me. It's also bam in your face.

• 48:41Speaker 01

  It screams at you and sometimes you open it, it punches you. You know what I mean? But so I'm in there sometimes. Anyway, I went in there and, um, I saw this thing, you know, you get the little seconds of the beginning of the video.

• 48:52Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:53Speaker 01

  Um, Tracee Ellis Ross is a bad example for young girls.

• 48:56Keke Palmer?

  I hate this type.

• 48:57Speaker 01

  And I was like, and I was like, scroll. I said, I don't know. I feel like I'm a good example.

• 49:03Keke Palmer?

  I don't know what you think, but to each his own. I don't have to be everybody's cup of tea. But it's like every other week it becomes a thing. Every other week it becomes a thing about anybody and it's like, yeah, with the internet I have a, uh, yeah. I wonder, how do you feel about it? Like, are you the person that's commenting? I, I feel like I never see you comment back anything. I feel like I only get a chance and a great opportunity to hear from you outside of our great friendship is in an interview you decide to talk. Because it is easy to get caught up in the online. I feel like in my early years I used to.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  It's just none of my business.

• 49:32Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 49:33Speaker 01

  Um, it's, that's, yeah. I mean, I think everybody should do whatever the hell they're doing.

• 49:37Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  But it's just none of my business.

• 49:39Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 49:39Speaker 01

  I do, I do love posting pretty pictures though.

• 49:41Keke Palmer?

  Girl, I love your page. I love your page. I love your travels. I love everything you give us. I love when you did the, um, video. It's so funny because I'm like, it's like so meta because I, I watch girlfriends all the time. So I'm watching you as a performer all the time. Then I do the POV of, you know, you going over the guy's house and then you do the, uh, the same thing.

• 50:00Speaker 01

  So funny.

• 50:01Keke Palmer?

  And it's almost, it's like, I'm, I'm kind of doing you and then you're joking doing me doing you and it's like, how is this?

• 50:08Speaker 01

  Wait, first of all, I said you look like Maya. I'm wrong. You've got a Diana Ross thing going on.

• 50:12Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my God.

• 50:14Speaker 01

  Sergio, Sergio, I picked it up Sergio, I picked it up. I'm late, but I picked it up, okay?

• 50:21Keke Palmer?

  OMG Sergio always knows, he always is doing these little...

• 50:24Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, I see what's happening, yes, okay, sorry.

• 50:28Keke Palmer?

  Um, but yeah, like, so it's so funny, so, anyway, social media, you do fun videos, you're really good at it. I mean, what is the process for you with getting into...

• 50:37Speaker 01

  I don't do anything for social media. Every once in a while, um, like, there was some challenge, is that what you call it?

• 50:45Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm, yep.

• 50:46Speaker 01

  Um, there was some challenge that, um, I did, the lights-off one. That was fun.

• 50:51Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 50:51Speaker 01

  That was fun, um, but like most...

• 50:53Keke Palmer?

  Go feel energy town.

• 50:54Speaker 01

  But mostly, I don't, it, the truth is, the worst thing that ever happened to anybody was that they put a camera on the phone. Because, growing up, I was the queen of the auto-timer. Don't give me a camera, and don't give me a video camera, okay? Do you not, do you know about my holiday video that started my career?

• 51:15Keke Palmer?

  No.

• 51:15Speaker 01

  Oh, gruel.

• 51:16Keke Palmer?

  Come on!

• 51:24Keke Palmer?

  In every great production, there is the star. And then there's the thing that makes the star look good without ever asking for credit? Think about it. The right lighting paired with a perfectly timed music cue. The one friend who fixes your collar before you walk into a room. They're unsung, but yet absolutely essential. Life is already asking a lot of you. The best things are the ones that take something off your plate without you even having to ask. That's what Fruit of the Loom Women's Underwear is in my daily lineup. I'm putting together looks, I'm making entrances, I'm doing the most as always, and underneath all of it is something so comfortable and so reliable that I genuinely forget it's there. And when you're going to do the most, the last thing you need is one more decision.

• 52:09Keke Palmer?

  Fruit of the Loom is the one I already made. Comfortable, reliable, completely off my mental checklist. The fit doesn't shift and the fabric doesn't fight me, it just lets me do what I do. The most powerful pieces in any ensemble. Are the ones that elevate without competing. And when something supports you that effortlessly, you stop searching and you start trusting. It becomes the easy choice. Not because it's basic, because it's exactly right. One less thing to figure out, one decision you never have to second guess about. Fruit of the Loom proves that simple feels really good.

• 52:46Keke Palmer?

  So I need to talk about something that has been taking up a lot of my mental real estate lately. It started casual. I just stopped in, wasn't even planning on it. And now, now I'm thinking about it in between meetings, telling people about it who didn't ask. This is a tropical butterfly refresher from Starbucks. And I am fully aware of how it sounds right now. Guava and passion fruit flavors, mango pineapple flavored pearls that pop, and this butterfly pea flower on top that shifts the color of the whole drink right in front of you. It's beautiful and delicious and mesmerizing. I don't know where this is going, but I'm not asking questions. Unlock your best summer memories with the tropical butterfly refresher from Starbucks. Order now on the app.

• 53:34Speaker 01

  So I was.

• 53:36Keke Palmer?

  I was.

• 53:37Speaker 01

  I was, I mean, this. I'm always so mindful of how I talk. Okay, anyway, I used a Hi8 video camera in my kitchen. And I used to do, I play dress up all the time. It's one of my favorite things to do. If I'm bored, I like to play in my closet. Sometimes I make a good outfit and every once in a while, that outfit actually becomes a person. And I have all these alter egos. And so back in, what year was I? It was before Girlfriends. It was what got me Lyricus Lounge, my first sketch comedy show. Yeah, I'm older than you. Um, so, so I, um, in my kitchen, in my first apartment in LA,

• 54:18Speaker 01

  I did a video and it was like proper editing with like tape. Like I went and edited it. It was a VHS tape.

• 54:29Keke Palmer?

  I have a VHS.

• 54:30Speaker 01

  Okay, it was a VHS tape and it was "Happy Holidays For Me And All My Alter Egos." And I made this tape and I sent it out to like 52 people. Some family, some people in the business, and my mom got ahold of it over Christmas and she was, she brought me up to her room to talk to me. I was like-

• 54:49Keke Palmer?

  She thought she was crazy.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  She was like, "Is this the right thing to do and can you get them back?"

• 54:58Speaker 01

  I was like, "Yeah, it's great. I think it's out of my career."

• 55:01Keke Palmer?

  I think now they all know.

• 55:03Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh.

• 55:04Keke Palmer?

  What did people say back?

• 55:06Speaker 01

  Well, it got me the sketch comedy show.

• 55:08Keke Palmer?

  So they, so they did, so they were like, they, you got, what did your mama say then? Was she like, "Damn, okay, bro?"

• 55:13Speaker 01

  Oh no, she literally later was like, "Can I make one?"

• 55:18Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, I, I have, I have all these different parts of me, you know what I mean? Just like you do, you know, I think when you're, when you're a big planet-

• 55:27Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 55:27Speaker 01

  You have a lot of small planets in you that just do all these different things.

• 55:31Keke Palmer?

  Come on, multiverse.

• 55:32Speaker 01

  Do you know what I mean?

• 55:32Keke Palmer?

  We live for it, yeah.

• 55:33Speaker 01

  That's right, multiverse, I'm taking that.

• 55:34Keke Palmer?

  No, seriously.

• 55:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just like, you know, some days it's like the long hair, some days I'm this person, some days I'm that, yeah. Tell me when you get to a place where you want me to bring my topic up.

• 55:42Keke Palmer?

  I want now.

• 55:43Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 55:44Keke Palmer?

  Yes!

• 55:44Speaker 01

  So I have a question for you. This is such a Kiki Tracy comment topic. Can we talk about male beauty standards and where they came from? Like, can we even maybe Google it? Cause I'm really curious. Where did-

• 55:57Keke Palmer?

  I love you.

• 55:58Speaker 01

  Where did lining up black man's hair come from? Where did this come from?

• 56:02Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, the lining up [BLEEP], right?

• 56:03Speaker 01

  Like, I just want to understand.

• 56:04Keke Palmer?

  And when they got the white thing there.

• 56:05Speaker 01

  Cause I really love the factory setting. I personally, you know what I mean, I love-

• 56:08Keke Palmer?

  I mean, my thing is I want it slightly touched, but like, you don't need to be like-

• 56:11Speaker 01

  Wear it's like a hat, like a small-

• 56:13Keke Palmer?

  No shade, Jermaine.

• 56:13Speaker 01

  Like-

• 56:14Keke Palmer?

  I love Jermaine. I love Jermaine St. Jane.

• 56:15Speaker 01

  We love you.

• 56:16Keke Palmer?

  I love Jermaine.

• 56:16Speaker 01

  But that's different, okay. But where did, where did, I just wanna know, like, you know, we can track back where like, some of women's beauty standards, but like, where is it?

• 56:27Keke Palmer?

  It had to be somebody in rap.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  You think it was like Mace?

• 56:30Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, but his was relaxed.

• 56:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, okay.

• 56:33Keke Palmer?

  It was like, he had a soft one, he had a, like, I feel like it was somebody that was like, probably from Philly.

• 56:39Speaker 01

  Okay, that was where it began. It was like, what, what's it called, the, uh, when they put the ink?

• 56:46Keke Palmer?

  That definitely had to be, I feel it was Philly.

• 56:48Speaker 01

  It was Philly.

• 56:49Keke Palmer?

  I feel it was Philly or DC or something.

• 56:51Speaker 01

  We know what the conk, like, back in the day, like, we understand all that, but like, the line.

• 56:54Keke Palmer?

  But I don't know why they want that so tense.

• 56:55Speaker 01

  You see, you see me, you see me not lifting my arms up.

• 56:58Keke Palmer?

  And sometimes it's the white line, they keep the white line.

• 57:00Speaker 01

  They keep the white line, and then it has been taken to another level, because, let me tell you something. A man in cornrows, I'm done, okay? Gimme a hamstring, and a cornrow, and I'm done. I'm done. I'm finished, it's over. Don't, I'm a leg, don't, okay? And cornrows, but if you cornrow and line it up, I'm confused.

• 57:24Keke Palmer?

  That's what they be doing. It's like a baby hair before the line of the hair, whatever they got going on. But sometimes with the locks, I'm not mad. Sometimes with locks, I'm not mad. But I do wanna know why a preview hairline, why a preview hairline before the real hairdo.

• 57:38Speaker 01

  I am curious, and I, this is not a judgment, this is like a real conversation, I wanna understand it, do you know what I mean?

• 57:44Keke Palmer?

  And they are serious about that.

• 57:45Speaker 01

  But like.

• 57:46Keke Palmer?

  They are serious about that.

• 57:47Speaker 01

  But so serious.

• 57:49Keke Palmer?

  And I never seen a woman say, "Ooh, I can't wait to see the preview hairline before the hairdo." Like, I've never seen, we don't get, we're not like, "Ooh." We're fine with it, but I'm like, let me, let me how they feel about us with some of this stuff.

• 58:01Speaker 01

  Okay, maybe, but this is, this is why I'm saying, this was, this was not a judgment conversation. This was a genuine dialogue, because I genuinely sometimes think, you know, with women's beauty standards, you're like, you can trace it back. And you can understand, I'm like, what was the? You know what I mean? Like I'm, this is what, this is what I'm bringing. Is it that I want you to know that I have a hairline?

• 58:23Keke Palmer?

  That I got money, I got money and I pay for it.

• 58:26Speaker 01

  I got money and I'm clean.

• 58:27Keke Palmer?

  I'm clean.

• 58:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay.

• 58:29Keke Palmer?

  I think it has some, I think it does have something to do with like, I'm fresh.

• 58:32Speaker 01

  I'm fresh.

• 58:33Keke Palmer?

  They definitely want you to know that.

• 58:34Speaker 01

  Like clean, it's like, it's like washing your shoelaces. No, shoelaces in the sink. Do you know what I mean? It's like shoelaces have a, I get it.

• 58:41Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 58:42Speaker 01

  But see, I have a lot more appreciation for it when I understand it.

• 58:45Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  And I, I, I felt like it was a conver, the conversation pre-conversation, the appetizer conversation I wanted to have with you. So that then I could bring it to a garçon and say, "Talk to me. I wanna know about the hairline." Like when you go get lined up, do you know what I mean?

• 59:02Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 59:03Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, okay. But I do love a factory setting.

• 59:06Keke Palmer?

  I like, I'm cool, look, it's gotta be right though. I do like when a brother kinda makes himself look, make himself look nice. But I don't really love when it's too programmed. So I'm with you on the program.

• 59:17Speaker 01

  You give me, you give me that cornrow un-cornrowed.

• 59:23Speaker 01

  And a hamstring.

• 59:26Speaker 01

  I'm weak. My knees are weak. I can't say no.

• 59:30Keke Palmer?

  I'm screaming.

• 59:32Speaker 01

  You're screaming.

• 59:32Keke Palmer?

  So wait a minute.

• 59:33Speaker 01

  I hope to be screaming.

• 59:36Keke Palmer?

  And a lot of times that's not what happens.

• 59:37Speaker 01

  No, mm-mm, no it's not. But we can hope a girl, a girl can dream. A girl can keep walking in that direction. And you know what even better? A woman can too.

• 59:47Keke Palmer?

  You know what I mean?

• 59:48Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? So yeah, I really, um, I just, I just had, I, one day I was sitting there. I can't remember who, what I was, oh, I was watching basketball and I was just like, huh.

• 59:59Keke Palmer?

  What is that?

• 59:59Speaker 01

  Now, let me tell you. Basketball, they don't create the biggest hamstrings because they need to be agile.

• 1:00:07Keke Palmer?

  What do you mean? What do you, okay.

• 1:00:11Speaker 01

  If you think of a hamstring, what sport do you think of?

• 1:00:13Keke Palmer?

  Football. And they got hamstrings in their neck too. They're too buff.

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  Okay, I didn't, I didn't say I wanted a neck, I didn't say I wanted a hamstring in the neck. I don't, I don't want, I do sometimes wonder when the neck comes out of the ears.

• 1:00:27Keke Palmer?

  They're huge.

• 1:00:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I'm not saying that.

• 1:00:29Keke Palmer?

  Why, why, what's doing that?

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  Well, think about it this way. If your head's gonna get knocked around like that, you better make that strong.

• 1:00:34Keke Palmer?

  No, I was gonna say.

• 1:00:36Speaker 01

  Again, do you know what I mean? You gotta say it's safety. Safety, it's a safe, you know what, Kiki? Kiki, it's a safety neck.

• 1:00:44Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 1:00:48Speaker 01

  It's a safety net.

• 1:00:55Keke Palmer?

  No, it's a safety net.

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  First of all, what I would, you know what we're gonna do?

• 1:00:59Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, that gave me so much joy.

• 1:01:02Speaker 01

  Do you know what our next television show is?

• 1:01:04Keke Palmer?

  What is it?

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  First of all, you and I are gonna do a movie, that's for sure. But we need to do a TV show where you and I just commentate on sports. And we just sit there, we just need to sit there and do our ver- did you see the way he put that ball in the net?

• 1:01:21Keke Palmer?

  It's gonna end up being so sexual. The way he dropped down on that floor, something was happening.

• 1:01:27Speaker 01

  Did you see that? Yeah, he fell on the floor. It's all wet down there.

• 1:01:33Keke Palmer?

  And who's the ref? Who talks, who's the guy who talks too much?

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  He talks to, and he's always wearing black. They don't have no other colors for him.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  Uh-uh, they need to get some more colors for those people.

• 1:01:45Keke Palmer?

  That's good.

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  I want a whistle like the ref. I'm gonna get out there. Kiki, we're totally-

• 1:01:49Keke Palmer?

  I wanna yell at somebody.

• 1:01:50Speaker 01

  Exact- Kiki, we are totally doing that show.

• 1:01:54Keke Palmer?

  I'm here for that.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:01:55Keke Palmer?

  Who do we got? I know some people we could call.

• 1:01:57Speaker 01

  Oh, we're gonna call them.

• 1:01:58Keke Palmer?

  Come on.

• 1:02:00Speaker 01

  And generationally, I feel like we will tap all-

• 1:02:03Keke Palmer?

  And we can even go back and do comparisons of old school and new school.

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  Yes, and talk about them.

• 1:02:08Keke Palmer?

  We can get into the-

• 1:02:09Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 1:02:10Keke Palmer?

  That's so good. And who was really fine and why? Who looked like they got movement on that court.

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  And by the way, did their fine from back then hold up now? Like, when you look at it, cuz I look back at some of my childhood crushes.

• 1:02:22Keke Palmer?

  I didn't realize that Michael Jordan was fine.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  Oh, I knew.

• 1:02:26Keke Palmer?

  I didn't realize when I look back now.

• 1:02:28Speaker 01

  No, no, it's unbelievable. Those early pictures and the clothes, I can't. It's absolutely crazy. It's literally heart-stopping.

• 1:02:33Keke Palmer?

  Absolutely.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  It is heart-stopping.

• 1:02:35Keke Palmer?

  He didn't have no business being like that.

• 1:02:38Speaker 01

  No, and that good?

• 1:02:40Keke Palmer?

  And that good.

• 1:02:43Keke Palmer?

  Michael Jordan. I would've been like, fuck. I go.

• 1:02:48Speaker 01

  Don't, yeah, like, just like, na na na na na na. We're at the game, we're at the game, we're at the game, like, literally.

• 1:02:55Keke Palmer?

  Okay, I would've been up there.

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  Wait, Kiki, you just did something that I need to understand because all the kids are doing this.

• 1:03:01Keke Palmer?

  What?

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  What is that?

• 1:03:03Keke Palmer?

  It's just some freak crazy.

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:03:06Keke Palmer?

  You're just trying to be like.

• 1:03:07Speaker 01

  It's, that is insane.

• 1:03:09Keke Palmer?

  Just doing some, we be doing too much.

• 1:03:12Speaker 01

  Kiki, I mean, I'm gonna do it.

• 1:03:14Keke Palmer?

  It reminds me of this back in the day.

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly, okay.

• 1:03:16Keke Palmer?

  That's bad though.

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  Okay, but I'm gonna do.

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  This is hilarious.

• 1:03:22Keke Palmer?

  I don't know what it is, I don't know, I'm tired of the millennial world. It's exhausting me.

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  Am I doing it right? Am I doing too much?

• 1:03:32Keke Palmer?

  Safety neck. I'm not over it. Safety neck?

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  This is brilliant. It's a safety neck.

• 1:03:39Keke Palmer?

  You're good.

• 1:03:41Speaker 01

  That's gonna be the name of our show.

• 1:03:43Keke Palmer?

  That's safety neck, safety neck, with Tracey Ellis Ross and Keke Palmer. I'm here for it beyond Billy.

• 1:03:48Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 1:03:49Keke Palmer?

  Um, so it's only one thing that's left to do, which is to play a little game.

• 1:03:53Speaker 01

  Oh my god, give it.

• 1:03:54Keke Palmer?

  Okay, the game is called.

• 1:03:55Speaker 01

  There was something behind me.

• 1:03:56Keke Palmer?

  Oh, is it?

• 1:03:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:57Keke Palmer?

  Oh yeah, there's a card for you.

• 1:03:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:58Keke Palmer?

  It's called acting casual, okay, we're gonna give each other awkward dating scenarios and take turns acting out how we handle them.

• 1:04:05Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:04:06Keke Palmer?

  While pretending we're completely fine. Okay, so I'll give you one first.

• 1:04:09Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:04:11Keke Palmer?

  You're trying to be mysterious and sexy on a date, but you think you have food in your teeth.

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:04:19Keke Palmer?

  I'm gonna act it out.

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  No, I love that, do you want another drink?

• 1:04:32Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:38Keke Palmer?

  Because I mean, what else you can do?

• 1:04:46Speaker 01

  I had something in my tooth.

• 1:04:49Keke Palmer?

  Who doesn't love that? Who doesn't love that? I'm in love.

• 1:04:53Speaker 01

  Okay, okay.

• 1:04:54Keke Palmer?

  Okay, where am I gonna get now?

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm just gonna act it out for you. Uh, so, I'm gonna do something and I want you to not get awkward.

• 1:05:07Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 1:05:11Speaker 01

  You have really amazing eyes.

• 1:05:15Keke Palmer?

  Thank you.

• 1:05:16Speaker 01

  Oh, you did not get awkward.

• 1:05:18Keke Palmer?

  Well, cuz why-

• 1:05:19Speaker 01

  In a good way.

• 1:05:20Keke Palmer?

  That's so nice to say to me.

• 1:05:21Speaker 01

  He compliments you and you're trying to receive it without getting awkward. You did great.

• 1:05:24Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh!

• 1:05:25Speaker 01

  You did great. Okay, you did great. Like you, uh, you, I, did the Oscar come in?

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  I don't know where it is. Oh, well.

• 1:05:35Keke Palmer?

  Okay, wait a minute, okay. So I'm gonna ask you something.

• 1:05:37Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:05:38Keke Palmer?

  I'm gonna say something to you.

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:05:40Keke Palmer?

  And you're gonna pretend that you're not disappointed.

• 1:05:43Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:05:44Keke Palmer?

  Uh-oh.

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  I do not have a poker face. Okay.

• 1:05:48Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah, I, I, I feel exactly what you're saying from, but to be honest with you, I'm not really looking for anything serious.

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  Me neither.

• 1:06:03Speaker 01

  I thought we were just gonna have sex.

• 1:06:10Speaker 01

  I don't know. Did I, did I play it off well? That was excellent. Yo, she said, "Me either."

• 1:06:22Speaker 01

  As my insides are crushed.

• 1:06:24Keke Palmer?

  Crushed.

• 1:06:24Speaker 01

  As you ride with your car over my heart.

• 1:06:27Keke Palmer?

  No, seriously.

• 1:06:28Speaker 01

  And getting stuck in your tire.

• 1:06:30Keke Palmer?

  Like, literally.

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  Like, why are we here?

• 1:06:32Keke Palmer?

  And it's like, what, what would be the proper response? Like, if I, if I wasn't trying to be on my best behavior, would it be or would it be, "Wow, that really has hurt me, but I don't think I can really be around you too much, but I've had a great time"? Like, what do you then say?

• 1:06:46Speaker 01

  I don't know. And why are you telling me right now?

• 1:06:48Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  We're still on the date.

• 1:06:51Keke Palmer?

  Oh.

• 1:06:51Speaker 01

  Oh, here, wait, try it again, try it again.

• 1:06:54Keke Palmer?

  I've always have a really great time with you and I feel everything you're saying, but I'm not really looking for anything serious right now.

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  Are you still gonna pay?

• 1:07:06Speaker 01

  How was that?

• 1:07:07Keke Palmer?

  Exactly.

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  Okay, I got another one, I got another one.

• 1:07:10Keke Palmer?

  Okay, okay. Yeah, I've, uh, you know, I love everything always that happened with us, but, you know, just to be honest, I'm not looking for anything serious.

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  I'm glad you said that, because you have a friend that I really want you to set me up with.

• 1:07:24Keke Palmer?

  Now, that's the [BLEEP] one.

• 1:07:27Speaker 01

  I mean, oh my god, Kiki.

• 1:07:29Keke Palmer?

  That's the one. Oh my gosh, because I was starting to realize that I chose the wrong person.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like, thank god you said it, now I don't have to say it.

• 1:07:36Keke Palmer?

  You're the least.

• 1:07:37Speaker 01

  Okay, uh... Okay, I'm gonna text you, I text you during your date.

• 1:07:43Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 1:07:43Speaker 01

  He's talking, as in me, and, um, I ask you how it's going.

• 1:07:48Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  What would you say in the text? You gonna text me right now?

• 1:07:51Keke Palmer?

  No, I thought I was playing it out, like, so I'm texting already?

• 1:07:54Speaker 01

  Text me right now!

• 1:07:55Keke Palmer?

  I'm ready, I'm gonna say it, I'm gonna say it. Okay, so you, and you're the guy, you gonna say something to him?

• 1:08:00Speaker 01

  So yeah, I was, I really loved the way, you know, when they were playing in the game, those guys all made the baskets. That was my favorite part of the game. And I'm glad you went with me, and I loved what you were wearing. I wish you'd worn heels, though.

• 1:08:16Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh.

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  Yeah?

• 1:08:18Keke Palmer?

  Thank you, boo.

• 1:08:29Keke Palmer?

  This [BLEEP] crazy, I'm ready to go home.

• 1:08:30Speaker 01

  She said, "He ain't saying [BLEEP]."

• 1:08:33Keke Palmer?

  I wanna go home.

• 1:08:37Keke Palmer?

  Because, that's how they be, though, sometimes. Every now and then, you get a real good conversation, but sometimes they'll be saying [BLEEP].

• 1:08:44Speaker 01

  You know what I love?

• 1:08:45Keke Palmer?

  What we talking about?

• 1:08:45Speaker 01

  I love a man who gives good text.

• 1:08:47Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh.

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  Text banter is really fun.

• 1:08:50Keke Palmer?

  I like text banter, too. I like also, like, keep it spicy, keep it fun, like, sometimes I do think I have this effect where it's like, I become a man's journal entry.

• 1:09:01Speaker 01

  No, that's too much.

• 1:09:02Keke Palmer?

  I don't want that.

• 1:09:03Speaker 01

  Especially in the first week.

• 1:09:04Keke Palmer?

  It's too much. Just give me sex, kitten. You know what I mean? Let me be Jackie Harry.

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  No. No, we, you know.

• 1:09:12Keke Palmer?

  I'm tired of it.

• 1:09:15Speaker 01

  I'm so dead right now. I'm so dead right now.

• 1:09:19Keke Palmer?

  Alright, well, that's my last one. Yeah, like, I wanna be.

• 1:09:25Keke Palmer?

  I can get a little, but you gotta give me a chance. You can't keep just opening up to me. I know I'm easy to talk to.

• 1:09:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I got you.

• 1:09:32Keke Palmer?

  But open up my legs. Then we can get into something.

• 1:09:39Speaker 01

  That's so interesting. Also, kissing is really underrated.

• 1:09:43Keke Palmer?

  My gosh.

• 1:09:44Speaker 01

  My god, if you can't do it, just walk away.

• 1:09:47Keke Palmer?

  Literally kiss, kiss, kiss. More kissing, less just like.

• 1:09:53Speaker 01

  What are you doing right now, Kiki?

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  Kiki, more kissing, less, less. No, Kiki, no. No. That's for year two, honey.

• 1:10:08Speaker 01

  With a consent form.

• 1:10:10Keke Palmer?

  My god, that is so funny. Yeah, I feel like when there's no, when there's no kissing, there's no build up.

• 1:10:17Speaker 01

  Agree.

• 1:10:18Keke Palmer?

  We need a build up.

• 1:10:19Speaker 01

  I mean, it's, that's, you know. I mean, we could talk.

• 1:10:22Keke Palmer?

  It's a lost art, the foreplay.

• 1:10:25Speaker 01

  I think it is, and I, and I, conversation is foreplay.

• 1:10:29Keke Palmer?

  And that's the biggest one.

• 1:10:30Speaker 01

  I mean, it isn't for everybody. It is for me.

• 1:10:32Keke Palmer?

  You know what I mean?

• 1:10:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:33Keke Palmer?

  It is for me too, because.

• 1:10:34Speaker 01

  Wait, what is my love language? First of all, I love consistent connection. So what would that be as a love language?

• 1:10:40Keke Palmer?

  Well, it could be anything. It could be sending you pictures. It could be texting. It could be calling.

• 1:10:44Speaker 01

  I'm not a gift person.

• 1:10:46Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, I don't care much about a gift. For me, quality time. Be intentional about spending time with me. And physical touch.

• 1:10:53Speaker 01

  I want quality time.

• 1:10:55Keke Palmer?

  I want you to be like, I figured that it would be, I don't know what you're up to, but this weekend, if you wanna go away and just like me and you.

• 1:11:00Speaker 01

  Plans. Is that quality time?

• 1:11:02Keke Palmer?

  Yes, baby, planning the time with your girl.

• 1:11:05Speaker 01

  Yes, I love this. I love this. And it's the smallest things.

• 1:11:10Keke Palmer?

  I just wanna be in a room with you.

• 1:11:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:11:12Keke Palmer?

  Alone.

• 1:11:17Keke Palmer?

  And then I'm ready to go. It doesn't last for two, you know. In a room with you, alone. Two days max and then I have [BLEEP] to do. And then I'll be back for season two.

• 1:11:29Speaker 01

  Oh my god, this is so interesting. Yes, gotta map that out.

• 1:11:32Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah. Anyway, so, Kiki neck.

• 1:11:36Speaker 01

  Kiki, this was the most enjoyable conversation I've had since dinner.

• 1:11:40Keke Palmer?

  You're always the best. I mean, it's, it's literally like, a big hug, a nice drink.

• 1:11:48Speaker 01

  I mean, you are the best.

• 1:11:50Keke Palmer?

  You are the best.

• 1:11:51Speaker 01

  The world is lucky we have you.

• 1:11:53Keke Palmer?

  Ditto. I'm like obsessed with you, but you already know that.

• 1:11:58Speaker 01

  Amazing. That was so fun.

• 1:12:06Keke Palmer?

  This conversation is a reminder that a full life doesn't have to follow one timeline or fit one definition. So if you take anything from this episode, let it be this. Your life is not on hold. Trust the life you're building. Trust the love that's already around you. And trust yourself enough to know that your path doesn't have to look like anybody else's. Baby, this is Keke Palmer.