How Worship Saved His Life (After Hitting Rock Bottom) | Michael W. Smith

In the height of a destructive season involving drugs and depression, Michael W. Smith reached a point where he believed he might lose his life. In this deeply personal conversation, he sits down with Dr. Josh Axe to share what happened the night he hit rock bottom—and why he says he was never the same afterward. Michael also discusses the healing power of worship, the prayer experience that preceded his son’s recovery, the lessons he learned from Billy Graham, and the daily habits helping him stay energized at 68. He also reveals the simple principle that has sustained nearly 45 years of marriage—and what he believes God reveals when we finally become quiet enough to listen. Uncover what’s really going on in your body with advanced biomarker testing for hormones, thyroid, and metabolism— plus a 1-hour consultation with a Senior Health Advisor! → ⁠http://mybloodwork.com⁠ Thank you to our sponsors! Sunlighten Sauna: ⁠https://get.sunlighten.com/axepodcast⁠Manukora Manuka Honey: ⁠https://manukora.com/axe⁠ 🎧 Early Access! Our listeners enjoy every episode before anyone else! Tune in below and join our exclusive group of listeners → Spotify: ⁠https://bit.ly/DrJoshAxeSpotify⁠ Apple Podcast: ⁠https://apple.co/3JDvWcS⁠ Pre-order my NEW BOOK, Heal Your Cells → ⁠http://healyourcellsbook.com/⁠ Watch my free training on how to naturally balance your blood sugar and reverse your symptoms → ⁠http://DrAxeDiabetesClass.com⁠ Discover practical steps you can take today to start healing your thyroid naturally → ⁠http://DrAxeThyroidClass.com⁠ If you’re ready to start feeling like yourself again and balance your hormones, take my free class → ⁠http://DrAxeHormoneClass.com⁠ CONNECT WITH DR. JOSH AXE Instagram → ⁠ / drjoshaxe ⁠Facebook → ⁠ / drjoshaxe ⁠ TikTok → ⁠ / thedrjoshaxeshow ⁠ X → ⁠https://x.com/drjoshaxe/⁠ LinkedIn → ⁠ / joshaxe ⁠ Website → ⁠http://thehealthinstitute.com⁠ Sign up for my newsletter → ⁠https://bit.ly/4oE9Jf3⁠ Ask Dr. Axe → ⁠http://speakpipe.com/drjoshaxe⁠ CONNECT WITH GUEST Instagram → ⁠ https://www.instagram.com/mwsmithofficial/⁠ Website → ⁠https://michaelwsmith.com/⁠ CHAPTERS: 00:00 The moment everything changed01:40 Welcome to the show02:30 Why Michael W. Smith moved to a farm12:00 The hidden power of worship20:00 How to find peace in a chaotic world28:00 The importance of mentors and community33:40 The incredible story behind "Above All"42:24 The advice that changed Michael's life44:30 What Billy Graham taught him53:00 The daily habits that keep him healthy at 6801:14:00 The secret to a meaningful life01:15:00 Final encouragement DISCLAIMER This content is strictly the opinion of Dr. Josh Axe and is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice or to take the place of medical advice or treatment from a personal physician. All viewers of this content are advised to consult their doctors or qualified health professionals regarding specific health questions. Neither Dr. Axe nor the publisher of this content takes responsibility for possible health consequences of any person or persons reading or following the information in this educational content. All viewers of this content, especially those taking prescription or over-the-counter medications, should consult their physicians before beginning any nutrition, supplement or lifestyle program. MB01GKPRPTQL1WL

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I hit rock bottom. I had a near drug overdose thing that I feel like I almost died. I felt like the devil was trying to take me out. I was stuck and I was in a pit and I couldn't get out. I went down on my floor for three and a half hours at midnight and I twisted and I turned and I wept and I shook. And about 3:15 in the morning, I was so exhausted and I felt like Abba was laying on the floor with me with his arm around me. Says, I got you. It's gonna be okay. And I haven't been the same since that night.

• 0:25Josh Axe?

  I think anytime that you get a song on that's uplifting, that's moving in some way, it really can change your perspective. It can change you from being depressed or anxious to peaceful and joyful in just moments.

• 0:36Speaker 00

  Just how a three and a half minute song can change somebody's life is remarkable. It's just the power of music.

• 0:42Josh Axe?

  One of the biggest things I found that helped me heal, and then I started digging in the research around this and seeing just so much evidence for it, but just spending time in praise and worship.

• 0:49Speaker 00

  I think there's so much that God wants to reveal to us, like some really like deep, deep, deep stuff that's like earth shattering, but I think he only gives it to the deep people. When you abide on a deep, deep level, he gives other worldly ideas to creative people. We were all in the basement. She was the only one who hadn't prayed. We all hadn't prayed there, but she just couldn't say anything. So I touched her shoulder, electricity flew down my body. I've never experienced anything like that. And I started to laugh. And a minute later, we can't catch our breath on the floor laughing uncontrollably. Something broke in that basement and everything changed.

• 1:40Josh Axe?

  All right, on today's episode, I've got Michael W. Smith. Now, he's a person I've listened to for a long time. His incredible music, but today, we're going to dive into some of his natural health practices, his farm. We're also going to talk about how praise and prayer can help you heal and so much more. Michael, welcome to the show.

• 1:57Speaker 00

  Thank you. I'm glad to be on.

• 2:00Josh Axe?

  You know, I think I first met you, we were doing a Bible study together with Ed Silvoso. I don't know if you remember that, you know, this is quite a few years ago. And, but I listened to your music far before this. In fact, I remember in junior high, I went to a Christian elementary school in junior high, and we would listen to your songs constantly. In fact, I remember being moved to tears with, I think it was Friends of Friends Forever. Probably every, every graduation across the country, Christian school, we're playing some of your amazing music. And so anyways, I'm super excited to have you on. So thanks for coming on.

• 2:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, thank you.

• 2:32Josh Axe?

  Well, I want to dive in and talk about a lot of things. I think there's a lot of maybe things that you do personally for your health and things that you've done for years that I think are gonna be interesting to talk about today. One of the first things is, and we were just talking about this, you've got a greenhouse and you've got chickens.

• 2:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:46Josh Axe?

  Well, now, what got you into sort of, you know, farming and some of these other gardening and these natural practices?

• 2:52Speaker 00

  Well, I think first and foremost, as you, as you get older, if you sort of have somewhat of clarity of mind, you want to, you want to live a long life. And to live a long life, you need to hang out with the right people. You need to eat the right things, you know? And we've had a garden forever, every place we've lived. But when we moved out to Franklin,

• 3:17Speaker 00

  we finally bought this farm. To long story short, so we have 200 acres, about, about 20 minutes from where we live. And so we built a barn. And so then we started growing stuff out there. And then we, we met Jordan Rubin and talked about greenhouse and all the stuff he's growing on his farm. And, and we thought, let's build a greenhouse. So we got this, gosh, these, it was, it was an amazing day of building the greenhouse. It was just awesome. These guys, they're not Amish, but they're Dutch.

• 3:44Josh Axe?

  Yeah, yeah. It's either.

• 3:46Speaker 00

  Philadelphia. They speak Philadelphia. That's I think that is, you know, you know, they got their suspenders on and they put that thing up like in less than six hours. So, so we really got into it and we're growing stuff. So, you know, just to be able to, to pick stuff, like almost every day, we pick stuff and we eat it that night. I mean, it's pretty awesome, you know? And there's nothing like fresh, fresh festival. So that's kind of our new hobby. And I'll have to admit, Debbie, she's got the green thumb, you know? So she's sort of really knows what she's doing. I'm sort of tagging along, just picking stuff because you can't pick it quick enough. So.

• 4:23Josh Axe?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. It's awesome. Yeah. I, you know, so I got into doing farming through Jordan as well, through Jordan Rubin. So I went in and he bought this farm and I invested in there. And so now I'm co-owner of the farm in Tennessee, also Missouri. And so it's been, it's been really fun. So I go down to Somertown here where we've got our farm quite often.

• 4:43Speaker 00

  I've been there.

• 4:44Josh Axe?

  Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. And then, you know, greenhouses are amazing. I mean, I, you know, I think that it's pretty fun to be able to grow things year round. And it is, you really can taste the difference, right? I mean, there is.

• 4:54Speaker 00

  Definitely.

• 4:55Josh Axe?

  Pretty incredible.

• 4:55Speaker 00

  Definitely.

• 4:56Josh Axe?

  And we had this whole craze, especially after COVID, of people starting to do more homesteading. I know. And I know you know, you know, Carrie Underwood, Mike Fisher as well. And they've, you know, they built a couple of big greenhouses a couple of years ago. And so I've talked to them about some of what they're doing. But, you know, my wife, Chelsea, started doing sourdough. We actually bought 10 acres out in, off of Vaughn and Snead over in Nashville. And so we're building greenhouse and sort of mini farm and everything else there too. So it's been a really interesting trend. What do you think is maybe behind some of this? And I see a lot of Christians doing this too. A lot more Christians and people trying to buy farmland, do chickens, make sourdough bread. I mean, you know, do some of these things.

• 5:36Speaker 00

  Well, that's just my, my humble opinion. I think there's just a lot of not so good stuff in our food that you get at the grocery stores. It's processed, it's, you know, environment. I mean, I mean, I could go on and on. I mean, who knows? But, yeah, I just think that's why people are gravitating towards, you know, if they don't have land, they share land or they share a garden. You know, you have a lot of communities that are doing kind of community gardens, which I think is a great thing. So I just think people are more conscious of their health and they want to, just like me, I think they want to live a long life and, and feel good and prosper and all of that. So.

• 6:16Josh Axe?

  Yeah, you know, I've heard this from a lot of just, you know, Christian leaders and pastors too. Like, it's like, a lot of them, I think they get to a point in their career where, and a lot of times they feel like it's in their 40s or 50s, where maybe sort of a realization of, you know what, I want to keep doing this and ministering when I'm in my 60s and 70s and 80s and 90s. And, you know, we had Don Finto in our, you know, in the Bible study we did. And, you know, he was, I think he was 93, did a mission trip to Iraq. Absolutely incredible. I remember I had a patient years ago, probably my best patient I've ever had. He was in his mid, late 70s. His name was John, and he was a pastor in Nolansville at a church there. And I said, hey, why are you trying to be so healthy? He said, you know, I want to be preaching the gospel and like doing this when I'm in my 90s. So I love that

• 6:58Josh Axe?

  sort of mindset. And it's pretty amazing. You're still doing music. You're still ministering here, here now. How much longer do you think you're going to be doing that?

• 7:06Speaker 00

  Well, I don't think I'll ever retire. You know, I might not be flipping and tripping at 85, you know? I mean, I want to be like Don. I mean, I just had dinner with, Don's mentored me for 43 years.

• 7:16Josh Axe?

  Wow.

• 7:17Speaker 00

  And, you know, I always say three people changed my life. My dad, who was my hero, Billy Graham, who I was very close to, and Finto. And Finto's 96.

• 7:26Josh Axe?

  Wow.

• 7:27Speaker 00

  And he's sharp. And I think he's going to be around for a while, you know? I feel like my best, I mean, I'm 68. I'll just go on record and say I'm 68, be 69 in October. I feel great. I feel like my best work is coming, you know? And so I feel energized. This is my calling. Maybe it would be different if nobody liked the music and nobody came and I'd have to find another job, you know? That's not the case. So I just kind of feel like I'm hitting into my sweet spot. Everybody kind of wants to, you know, what am I called to do? And God, show me what that is and let me do it to the best of my ability. And I actually pray that every day. I kind of go, okay, God, what's, am I still supposed

• 8:09Speaker 00

  to be doing this? Like, what's my next assignment? I can't change yesterday. I'm not guaranteed tomorrow. So just even today, who am I supposed to run into? If I go to Whole Foods or I go to Walgreens, or just let me reflect who you are to people all around me. So it's more than just music, being an artist. And, you know, I think it's also just living the life, you know?

• 8:31Josh Axe?

  Yeah. Yeah. You know, I had my own, this is a few years ago, I had my own personal health battle. And one of the things I experienced, I had a spine infection and walked for a year. This is about three years ago. And when I was going through that, one of the biggest things I found that I feel like helped me heal, and then I started digging in the research around this and seeing just so much evidence for it, but just spending time in praise and worship. I mean, it's amazing, you know? We see this in the Psalms. We think, we see verses around sort of, you know, just around praise and gratitude and some of the healing effects is research about this now. I mean, is that something that you've experienced or people have come up to you over the years saying, hey, your, your music has helped me break free or heal in some way?

• 9:09Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, all the time.

• 9:11Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 9:12Speaker 00

  I mean, I don't say that boasting. I mean, I just, it's just the power, the power of music. I mean, just how a three and a half minute song can change somebody's life is remarkable. Even in instrumental, I've had, I've had several people, matter of fact, probably in the double digits of people feel like they got healed listening to my Freedom record.

• 9:32Josh Axe?

  Wow.

• 9:33Speaker 00

  And there's no words on freedom. You know, it's just, I always think about David playing for Saul, you know? He probably wasn't singing How Majestic Is Your Name. He was, he was playing the harp or playing this instrument. And it just brought, it comforted Saul, you know? So the power of a melody, just incredible. And yeah, the worship thing, I mean.

• 9:52Speaker 00

  You know, it's just a, that's what we're made for.

• 9:54Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 9:55Speaker 00

  And I love that scripture that says, "For the spirit of heaviness, put on the garment of praise."

• 10:00Josh Axe?

  Oh, wow.

• 10:00Speaker 00

  So we just feel like you're in the funk, feel like you just can't, you just go, "Lord, I praise you. No matter how I feel, I just praise you." Because you're worthy to be praised, you know? So not about my emotions. I don't know why I'm feeling this way. Why do I feel depressed? Or you can go on and on, but Lord, I praise you. I worship you. And yeah, and he inhabits the praises of his people.

• 10:22Josh Axe?

  Yeah. You know, I, I think about the, the way to change our mindset or the emotions we're feeling the, the most quickly. And I think it's music. I think it's combined with gratitude and praise. I think anytime that, you know, again, you, you get a song on that's uplifting, that's moving in some way, especially if it means something to you, or you listen to the words and it moves you in some way. It, it really can change your perspective. It can change you from being depressed or anxious to peaceful and joyful in just moments, you know, so, so quickly.

• 10:52Speaker 00

  I agree.

• 10:52Josh Axe?

  And, and that was something, again, when I was kind of going through, I would have a bad day, I would listen and it would be like, wow, this is, this is creating a shift for me in a really powerful way. I also think about it like this, you know, I think when you are listening to Christian music versus other music, you know, there's something about if anyone's ever stood and just watched the ocean waves crash and you feel the sense of sort of awe and wonder, just the bigness there. You've been in a mountain, you're snow skiing, you kind of look at this fastness. I think a similar thing can happen when you are reflecting on the power of Jesus, the greatness of God, and you're sitting there sort of reflecting and music helps you do that.

• 11:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:26Josh Axe?

  It, to me, it has that same sort of empowering, creates that same empowering feeling.

• 11:32Speaker 00

  Right. I agree.

• 11:33Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 11:33Speaker 00

  I agree. I'm a big nature guy. I'm a big, like, I always want, I want to be an astronaut when I was a kid, you know? I'm fascinated with space. And I mean, I think if I had a chance, I would probably go up in a rocket and come back down. I'd probably do that.

• 11:49Speaker 00

  But I mean, I, I think what happens is we, you know, we, we live in such a fast-paced society and it's just everything's vying for our attention, you know? Especially now with media and your phone and man, just God, he's, it's just, he's screaming everywhere. I mean, the rocks are crying out, you know?

• 12:07Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 12:08Speaker 00

  I remember one time I was, this has been a decade ago, I was driving, I was so sort of in this sweet little place with the Lord and my heart was tender for some reason, and I pulled up beside this, I think it was a Bradford pear. It's really close to my studio. And I pulled up and it was in full bloom and I completely had a meltdown. Just looking at a tree, but I know God created the tree. And so I saw the beauty in the tree. So I'm trying to sort of, you know, even today, you know, I was looking at the news. I turned the phone off, you don't need to look at the news, and just look around, look around, because his beauty is just amazing, you know? So I can have a worship experience looking at the stars.

• 12:49Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 12:49Speaker 00

  So.

• 12:50Josh Axe?

  Yeah, it's so powerful.

• 12:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:51Josh Axe?

  You know, one of the prescriptions I have is when my mom, she had battled cancer twice, but the second time she had it, we really took this natural protocol and approach of healing. And of course, we changed her diet dramatically. We did a lot of things. But one of the biggest things we did is she would regularly, she had about 40 Bible verses. She would just, you know, meditate on day and night. She had just worship music kind of going constantly. So anytime, especially anytime she was not feeling in a funk, she would listen to it and it would just, it would just change her. So I think, you know, this combination of using prayer, using sort of praise together is incredibly powerful. And you can share this or not share this, it's sort of this question, but have you or your family, and some of this might be private, so you don't feel like you need to share anything, you don't. Have you guys walked through any health challenges for you or family members?

• 13:36Josh Axe?

  And if you did, was there something that you did that you felt like was very helpful in order to, to help the person heal? Maybe even from a, you know, a praise, a prayer perspective, anything like that?

• 13:46Speaker 00

  Well, I remember, I don't think Ryan would mind me saying this, he's my oldest. You know, he went through a weird season when he was young, like eight to like 12, or maybe it could have been nine to 12. And he had tics, he had these tics and he would shake and then something else would happen and he would just, he was just out of nowhere, you know? And we thought he had Tourette's and the doctor, he got diagnosed with Tourette's and we all were just a mess and just, we just wouldn't believe it, you know? Took him to another doctor, he doesn't have Tourette's, you know? He just all, kids under 12, most of them have tics, you know? Maybe some of them don't reveal themselves, but it was scary.

• 14:27Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 14:28Speaker 00

  But we have a prayer group and it's been together for 35 years.

• 14:31Josh Axe?

  Oh, wow.

• 14:32Speaker 00

  And so a lot of those people were, I just remember we, they all came to the house and Fento was there. And we were just confident that, that God was going to heal Ryan, you know? And so we anointed all the doors with oil and especially his room, spent a lot of time in there. And this is an insane story. So if you think I might be wacky, but it really did happen. So I remember we were, we were all in the basement and Linda Dion, who's in heaven now, she was a part of the prayer group. And so she was the only one who hadn't prayed. We all had prayed there and praying for Ryan, praying for a breakthrough.

• 15:13Speaker 00

  And she usually has these powerful prayers, but she just, she couldn't say anything. So I touched her shoulder and so Deb did on the other side and electricity flew down my body. And it was, I've never experienced anything like that. And I started to laugh and Fento started to laugh. This is crazy. And a minute later, we can't catch our breath and Dawn and I are on the floor laughing uncontrollably, like almost hyperventilating.

• 15:43Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 15:44Speaker 00

  Well, everybody else decides to laugh with us, you know? They just thought, what's, what's going on here? My sweet mother-in-law went and got us all water because we might've been dehydrated, but something broke in that basement and everything changed.

• 15:57Josh Axe?

  Wow.

• 15:58Speaker 00

  Tics went away.

• 15:59Josh Axe?

  Wow.

• 16:00Speaker 00

  Everything. Now, I can't explain that. That sounds a bit radical, but I just think it was the Holy Spirit.

• 16:07Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 16:07Speaker 00

  And sort of there was just the release and, and then we, you know, we all were walking out going, you know what, I think this thing's going to be okay. And it really did all turn around. But I think it was probably the prayers of that prayer group for years, leading up, just believing that there's going to be a breakthrough, there's going to be a healing for him. And it happened on that night.

• 16:30Josh Axe?

  I love that.

• 16:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:31Josh Axe?

  That's so powerful.

• 16:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:36Josh Axe?

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• 17:22Josh Axe?

  You know, I think there's a, the longest health study ever done today, it was a Harvard study. And now, now it's been, it's almost 100 years old now and they keep tracking these metrics. And the single greatest factor for somebody living a long time was having a close-knit community, close-knit family and friends.

• 17:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:37Josh Axe?

  I mean, we're talking about more than supplements, more than exercise, more than healthy diet, was that?

• 17:42Speaker 00

  Community.

• 17:43Josh Axe?

  Community.

• 17:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:44Josh Axe?

  Yeah, you know, and I remember this is, so when I first moved to Nashville, this is almost 20, actually, this is before this, this is more than 20 years ago. I had a friend who was a musician and he told me that he would just, you know, you let him just go out to your farm and he would just walk around, you know? And so there's probably 100 people like that, that you just let go to your farm and just spend time there. But I know that you've done this for a long time in terms of you're just very connected to people. How do you cultivate so many of these really deep, meaningful relationships?

• 18:10Speaker 00

  Well, I don't always do it well, you know?

• 18:15Speaker 00

  You know, I actually just told Dawn the other night, I think I probably need a little bit more community. I'm kind of an introvert and an extrovert.

• 18:21Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 18:21Speaker 00

  I'm kind of both.

• 18:22Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 18:23Speaker 00

  Because I love being with people, but I really love being by myself.

• 18:26Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 18:28Speaker 00

  So I probably need to be a little bit more intentional of this, about hanging out with the prayer group guys. You know, the girls get together all the time and they pray for the husbands, you know, all the time, you know? And the guys don't do that on a regular basis like they do and we probably should. So it's sort of one of my goals is just going, you know, I just need to go have dinner with somebody, you know? You know, I would rather just stay home, eat by myself or eat with Deb. But she was out of town going, just go be with people. So, you know, kind of my community lately has been my, my production team working on this record that I've been working on for over a year and a half. And that's been great. A guy named Ted T. and Jake Hom. Always wanted to work with Ted, he's a brilliant producer.

• 19:11Speaker 00

  So we've had a lot of great discussions. I've kind of gotten to really know him because we spend a lot of time together. You get to know, all of a sudden you got a new friend and it's been really good. But yeah, I think you can't be a Lone Ranger, you know? That's, that's probably spells trouble, you know?

• 19:29Josh Axe?

  You know, one thing I was thinking, so my, I had a, my grandfather passed away a few years ago. He lived to be 96 and, you know, worked up until pretty much almost the day he died. I mean, really had an amazing life and, and one of the things that... At the funeral, that was so amazing is that there were so many people, I looked at this room of people and conversations with them, and there's over a hundred people, and I probably talked, I talked to a lot of people, and many of them felt like my grandfather was their best friend. And so like, he had this amazing thing, and honestly, and you have a very similar demeanor in that is that somebody could meet you a few times, and I feel like this with you is that I've only met you in person really a few times, but I really feel like, you know, you could be considered

• 20:10Josh Axe?

  a close friend from the standpoint of, you know, you're just very warm, easy to connect with on these things, you're willing to serve. I mean, I asked you to come on the podcast, you're like, sure, you know, and I know you're one of the most busy people I know, or could be, right? Because there's so many commitments. So, so I just, I just want to let you know, I just think that there's just such an amazing spirit about that. I'm just a willingness to be able to just connect with people and bless people. And, and one other thing I think I read recently, and this was, I mean, a few years ago, but you know, I know, I know your parents passed, and you attributed a lot of things to your, your dad and your mom. So what are some of the things maybe they passed on you in terms of just your, you know?

• 20:49Speaker 00

  Man, I still miss them both terribly. They were the greatest parents ever. They just, they were always serving people, just always serving people. And my dad, I mean, I do things that my dad does. I mean, my mannerisms, you know, I look like my dad. I say hi to everybody. I like, no way, this woman, if he didn't know who they were, he'd go, hey, old buddy, you know, he just said hi to everybody, which, you know, if you're in California or some other place, you think you're crazy, you know what I'm saying? Nothing is California. I got lots of friends in California. But, you know, it's just, it's not, that's not normal in today's society. But my dad

• 21:30Speaker 00

  was just, he was gracious to everybody. And so, and the way he loved my mom, unconditionally, and my mom was amazing. Just, so just, you know, I felt like I've got some big shoes to fill. And I think my dad, just the way he lived his life, showed me how to do life. He loved me, and I have one sibling, he loved us so well, you know, with this whole prodigal thing, and a drug thing, it's, oh, just was, still can't even believe it happened, you know, from 75 to 79. And I'd moved to Nashville in 78, whatever, long story short, but he never, he never kicked me out of the house, he never, he just, they just loved me unconditionally. They knew I was in trouble. They probably didn't know

• 22:15Speaker 00

  to the extent. They just loved me. They just, and I feel, and I'm completely, I believe this with every fiber of my being, I wouldn't be having this conversation with you if it hadn't been for the prayers of my mom and dad, on their knees every night praying for their boy, who was doing drugs in Nashville, Tennessee, and almost lost his life. So, yeah, my dad was my hero.

• 22:39Josh Axe?

  Wow. That's so powerful. Well, when you, when you were going through that, that period of time, what helped you break through that, that drug addiction? Like, what was the thing that finally just caused you to experience that?

• 22:51Speaker 00

  Well, I hit rock bottom. But that's what I prayed for. When I almost lost my, I had a near drug overdose thing that I almost feel like I almost died. It was a crazy thing that happened. I've written about it in books, all the gory details, and, but I knew, when that happened in 78, I felt like the devil was trying to take me out. And I knew, because I got saved when I was 10, had a massive encounter with Holy Spirit, 13, and here that the whole music was going to be a part of my life. I knew that there was an enormous, beautiful call of God on my life. And I felt like the devil was trying to snuff it out and take me out. I really do believe that. I mean, you look

• 23:34Speaker 00

  at him, he wants to do that to all of us. The devil wants to kill and steal and destroy our lives, in the word. So, I was stuck, and I was in a pit, and I couldn't get out. There was no ladder. I was just stuck. And so, and my mom and dad were praying for me, but I began to pray, God, do whatever you have to do to get my attention. I mean, car wreck, break my legs, I mean, just don't kill me, just whatever it takes. And I'd never been depressed in my life. I sort of like, I always was the most popular guy in school. I played sports, the music, but I was always up. I was always sort of like, you know, just loved being with people. And I got depressed.

• 24:18Speaker 00

  And it went through the summer of 79, and through the fall of 79, and it just like, and it finally, I went down on my floor, my linoleum floor, which I'm still going to write a song called Linoleum Floor, for three and a half hours at midnight. And I probably had a nervous breakdown, and I twisted, and I turned, and I whipped, and I shook, and I just, for three and a half hours. And about 3:15 in the morning, 3:30, I was so exhausted, and I felt like Abba was laying on the floor with me, with his arm around me, says, I got you, it's gonna be okay. And I haven't been the same since

• 24:57Speaker 00

  that night. I was tempted the next day, I mean, I went, whoa, what, what was that? And I was sort of tempted to go out and party with my buddies, but then there was something, it was, something was, I couldn't shake what happened that night. And that, that next day, I was going to my publishing company, I'm here, I'm trying to write songs about Jesus and, and party, and it didn't quite work. So all the songs were awful. And this guy, Randy Cox, came up to me, says, hey, because I kept saying, Lord, I need a way out, I need a, that was amazing, give me some friends, do something. And Randy says, hey, there's this, I want to talk to you about something. There's this group called Higher Ground, and they're looking for a piano player. I said, I'll take the job. He said, well, you don't want to meet him? Nope. I'll take the job. Are you sure you

• 25:41Speaker 00

  don't want to meet him? Nope. I'll take the job. Because I felt like that was my anchor. And so I joined this group called Higher Ground, smoked my last cigarette on the way to the van. And that was, that was, I think it was New Year's Eve of 79, and those guys nurtured me back to health spiritually for eight months. And then, that following month, I got my first songwriting contract, then I met a girl named Amy Grant, and started writing songs for Amy. And then finally got my own record deal. I mean, the list goes on, but I mean, the story goes on, but that's, it was rock bottom. And I got rescued.

• 26:19Josh Axe?

  Wow. Praise God. What an amazing story. You know, I had a, not to that degree, but I did, when I was in college, have a couple of years really turned away from God, and then had a, had a similar experience of just feeling this emptiness in this hole, and spending a few hours, like, over a weekend, actually a whole weekend, just locked myself in my room. And I remember praying a prayer, I said, God, because one of the things I felt like was, I didn't have any really true, deep friends. I mean, I went to my hometown, but moved off to college, and just got around the wrong group. And I remember praying, God, would you just send a flood of Christian godly men into my life? And honestly, since then, and God is still doing it. I mean, I'm like, I prayed that prayer, and it's like 30 years, like, it just keeps doing it, you know?

• 27:02Josh Axe?

  And I found that that is the thing that helped change me the most, is like, if my, my single biggest life lesson is probably, you become who you spend time with.

• 27:09Speaker 00

  I agree.

• 27:09Josh Axe?

  You know, and it's just like, wow. And so, that has been something I'm just, I still do today. I'm constantly thinking, who am I spending time with? Being really proactive with that. And I look back at my parents, they were conscious of this too. But, you know, I was always like, well, why can't I hang out with this person, or go over this person's house? And, I mean, thank God for, you know, great parents. So you mentioned Amy Grant. Who are, who are some people that, that have been sort of iron like sharpens iron for you? Maybe other musicians in the industry for, again, for the past 30 or so years?

• 27:39Speaker 00

  Well, I have to go back to Don Finto again. I mean, I mean, I've, I've done a lot of life with Don. I always say the three people changed, I think, I don't know if I already said this, but the three people who, the three minute really changed my life was my dad, Billy Graham, I was very close to Billy. And he poured his life into me, especially, you know, from 94 on, you know, until he went to heaven. And, you know, I think he maybe just, I don't know, he just loved me for some reason. And we started doing youth nights together, and I did a lot of crusades with him. But, you know, he has five kids, I've got five kids, he's on the road, I'm on the road. We had a lot of things in common, you know? So, yeah, Finto, my dad, Billy. But, you know, just throughout

• 28:24Speaker 00

  the years, just my bandmates, my, who I'm on the road with, you know, I can, I can establish a pretty quick relationship. If I'm, if I'm hanging out with these people on a bus all the time, you start to kind of like, you're not going to isolate yourself. I mean, sometimes you got to go to the back of the bus to, to recalibrate, you know, from time to time. But no, you get to know these guys, and you get to know about their families, and... You get to have these deep conversations at night on a bus. We get into this whole thing about, what do you think about that? And what do you think about that? And we tried to avoid politics, but it would come up from time to time. But more thing about how to walk this thing out, you know, how do we, how do we finish strong? How, how do we not fall off the cliff?

• 29:06Speaker 00

  And then I would go back to my prayer group, you know, of all the times that we've been together and all the tough stuff that we've gone through, you know, just like the loss of life, you know, we have some person who lost his wife in our prayer group. That was awful, you know?

• 29:22Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 29:23Speaker 00

  You know, that draws us all together. And so whenever there's an issue where there's a big thread text where they, where the, what do we call it? The prayer warriors or whatever we're called, you know, there's a thread and I get something from that thread every other day.

• 29:39Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 29:39Speaker 00

  Cause so I know what's going on in pretty much in everybody's life in our prayer group. And it's a beautiful thing.

• 29:46Josh Axe?

  Yeah. You know, there's, there's no doubt for me. Again, talking about some of these things we've talked about, I think, I mean, church of course has been such a blessing and changed me. But I think there's something about growth groups or these sort of things that you're talking about, these longstanding groups that change you even more because I think there's something about, we can sit in church and it is something everyone should be doing. Again, I'm so blessed by hearing an amazing sermon and teaching, spending time in praise and worship. There's also something about doing life with people. You know, I think like with the way that I've learned, I think the Bible proves this out with talking so much about discipleship, but like watching the way other people treat their wives, raise their kids. You know, I've got two daughters now and I've got some other couples. I don't know if you know Michael Hyatt, you know, Mike, Mike's got five daughters. I remember when I was first found out I was going to have a daughter,

• 30:31Josh Axe?

  I went to Michael and just said, Hey, you know, I, one of the things he told me, and I thought it was so interesting. He said, you're going to love having daughters. He said, the boys always run off and the girls always stay around and are going to take care of you and you're going to love it. And, but I've been so blessed by, and I think any growth I've had has been so much around having amazing mentors and people and watching. So there was a doctor that I mentored for, I mentored under and he would let me, this is when I was in Florida in school. I would go stay at his house one night a week and then I would work as a nutritionist in his clinic, but I would stay there and be able to see how he interacted with his kids in the morning. And so his kids would wake up and, you know, big hugs, he'd connect with the family and then they'd literally come up and they would take green, shots of green juice, teaspoon of fish oil, you know, I'll take their supplements, do breakfast together, kisses. But for me, it was,

• 31:15Josh Axe?

  it was just as, I mean, it was maybe more powerful than anything, just saying, oh, this is how you do it.

• 31:19Speaker 00

  How you do it. Yeah.

• 31:21Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 31:21Speaker 00

  Good. No, it's good. I mean, actions speak louder than words, you know, and that I remember Deb and I would have a lot of these talks about our, you know, our five kids and pray for them or they're going to be okay. And we would go, we can preach at them all day, but they're watching what we do.

• 31:39Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 31:40Speaker 00

  They're, they're watching how we are interacting, you know, they're watching how we treat people, you know? So, yeah. So that sounds like a great thing that you had to watch him do life with his family.

• 31:53Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 31:54Speaker 00

  And we've always been family, we're big, big, we're big, big family people. I mean, all our kids fought and did all that stuff growing up. They had their little whatever, but all our kids actually really love each other.

• 32:04Josh Axe?

  Oh, wow.

• 32:05Speaker 00

  And now we have 20 grandkids.

• 32:07Josh Axe?

  Oh, goodness.

• 32:09Speaker 00

  I thought we were holding an 18, we're at 20 and the grandkids love each other, you know? So there's just really cool thing happening, you know, and we just keep praying, oh God, just a page of protection because the world's, you know, much of the world's a bad place, you know? And so, so far by the grace of God, they're staying on point, which is great.

• 32:29Josh Axe?

  That's so great. Yeah. So one of the things that I, Jordan Rubin and I have talked about this quite often, we said, Hey, when do you get your best ideas? And I, and I, and you know, and I'm, I write a lot of articles and books and create a good amount of content and so does Jordan. He'll create supplement formulas and all kinds of things. And both of us have said, I mean, I'm talking about 90% of the time, our best ideas have come. And, and part of me feels like I'm excited to share this also, part of me feels bad about maybe I shouldn't be doing it at this time, but it's when we're at church doing praise and worship. I mean, I literally, it's almost like I'm spending half of praise and worship. Like Chelsea's like, get off your phone. I'm like, I will, but I've got this amazing idea that I need to type out right now. And same thing,

• 33:14Josh Axe?

  like Jordan and I have points have gone to certain churches or different things together. And, and I'm looking across the thing and I see him like that. I'm like, so there is, there is just something that I, again, when we're spending time praising God and sort of in the presence, I just feel like these ideas just flow.

• 33:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:31Josh Axe?

  And it's been really amazing. And so that's one thing that again, I love about your music. I love about just spending time in praise and worship. And I know it's different for everybody. I was listening to this thing with Elon Musk and he said, his first thing is he wakes up in the morning. The first thing he does is get in the shower and just thinks for an hour and come up with all his ideas.

• 33:48Speaker 00

  And sings.

• 33:49Josh Axe?

  Well, I don't know if he sings or not. No, this is totally different. No, he just does it in the shower. I don't think he sings. I think he just, he does it then. But I'm curious for you, how about you? Like, how do you, again, you, you created so many amazing songs. Like what sort of environment do you need to sort of get into in order to write, write your best music when you're looking back?

• 34:07Speaker 00

  Well, I think, I mean, you obviously need, you know, I don't have very many great ideas when you're trying to carry the, the weight of the world on your shoulders and you're thinking about this and you're thinking about, oh, everything's negative and you've got to be positive. You know, I, this is about just my, my personal opinion and I, and I can't tell you exactly why I got in these places. You know, I remember I wrote August Day, you know, I was in my basement in 1990 and it's this worship song that's been, it's resurfaced and all these kids think it's a new song and it's 36 years old, you know, it's whatever. But I was in my basement just having

• 34:49Speaker 00

  this quiet time, just quiet. I put my hands on the piano. I felt like I was sort of, I was just having Jesus time, honestly, thanking him. And I just put my hands on the keyboard and I've started playing this melody. And I wrote this in two minutes. It just came out and I'm weeping at my keyboard, just weeping in my basement, playing the song. So I think, I believe that he gave me the melody. He gave me the song.

• 35:20Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 35:20Speaker 00

  Why did he give it to me then? And not in 88 or 95? I have no idea.

• 35:25Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 35:26Speaker 00

  I think there's so much that God wants to reveal to us, like some really like deep, deep, deep stuff that's like is earth shattering, but I think he only gives it to the deep people.

• 35:40Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 35:41Speaker 00

  The quiet place, you know, the, the place of really abiding in this sort of, it's like a consciousness kind of thing. It's not weird. I'm just saying, just being in that thing of being in the deep place and totally, totally being surrendered to him, like on full scale.

• 36:00Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 36:01Speaker 00

  I think when you abide on a deep, deep level, I personally think he gives other worldly ideas to creative people.

• 36:11Josh Axe?

  So powerful.

• 36:11Speaker 00

  To you, to me. I just, I just totally believe that.

• 36:17Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 36:18Speaker 00

  I think if I was running and gunning all the time and trying to put out the fires and just sort of in this sort of nonstop chaos of just trying to keep life together, I don't think I'd be very productive, you know? I wouldn't be very happy. But there's this peace, you know, there's this thing of going, I say it every day, how do I do it? How do I do it? How do I abide in you? Living in America and all the things that come with my job, you know, how do, how do I sort of, you know, sort of, yes, I gotta take care of this and that's a responsibility, but how to sort of stay in this lane of just keeping my mind stayed on you. He said, if you keep your

• 37:02Speaker 00

  mind stayed on him, you keep you in perfect peace. That's what it says. So I think he wants to reveal some pretty amazing stuff to deep people and I want to be among the deep people.

• 37:12Josh Axe?

  Yeah. And I think first, this is, I've loved everything you've said. This is my favorite thing though. I think that there's something about being able to, and we see Jesus did this, right? He woke up early in the morning. He went just to a quiet place to pray.

• 37:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:26Josh Axe?

  And I see this today. I see so many people struggling with health issues. I mean, I, again, I think that, I mean, it's maybe more than half, I mean, of health issues are due to an emotional state of, and food's big, but I do think just this overwhelm of busyness of people have their schedule packed from the second they wake up to go to bed and through the weekend. It's just so many things and that doesn't leave room to go deep, right? We're going to your point, very, very wide. We have social media today. You have maybe 500 friends on there, but how many of like versus, you'd much better going deep with five people.

• 37:58Speaker 00

  I agree.

• 37:59Josh Axe?

  And so I do, I do love that. And I think of anytime I've had inspiration, anytime I've had a meaningful idea, it's come from this time of praise and worship, or this is a lone quiet time in creating space where, you know, my, I've got a two-year-old and six-year-old. I have my six-year-old. Chelsea and I have started saying that she's like, I'm bored. We're like, good. It's good to, you know, we're like, it's good to be bored, honey. This is where you can think and be creative and, you know?

• 38:24Speaker 00

  You guys are busy.

• 38:25Josh Axe?

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:26Josh Axe?

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:27Speaker 00

  I remember.

• 38:28Josh Axe?

  So busy, so fun. And that's one of the, one of the things we're trying to do now is, and Chelsea and I are constantly reminding each other of like, you know, our, our two-year-old is now saying words more correctly. We liked it better when she wasn't because it's so darn cute.

• 38:42Speaker 00

  Right.

• 38:42Josh Axe?

  And, and just being able to just kind of, yeah, cherish this, this time when they just really want to just connect with you every second of the day.

• 38:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:50Josh Axe?

  And it's, and it's so precious. And now you're getting to do this with Grant, with 20 grandkids.

• 38:54Speaker 00

  20 grandkids.

• 38:55Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 38:56Speaker 00

  I was at our farm last night and I watched my, one of my, gosh, how old's Gabriel? Is he eight? Get baptized last night.

• 39:04Josh Axe?

  Oh, wow.

• 39:05Speaker 00

  In a, in a horse trough.

• 39:08Speaker 00

  Yeah. We decided not to do the Harp with the River and we had like 30, 40, 50 people out there and it was just, and Deb had just gotten back from Indiana helping Emily, the little ones who doesn't live here. And so we raced out there and just, just to watch your grandchild get baptized, you know? I end up baptizing two of my kids. It just doesn't get old. Yeah.

• 39:29Josh Axe?

  I love it. That's so good.

• 39:33Josh Axe?

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• 40:17Josh Axe?

  work with the Health Institute to finally feel like yourself again. If you want to check it out and grab one before they're gone, just go to mybloodwork.com now.

• 40:29Josh Axe?

  You talked about the three people that really mentored you and poured into your life.

• 40:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:32Josh Axe?

  And I want to ask you the same question for each of them. Let's start with your dad.

• 40:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:36Josh Axe?

  What is the single biggest thing you learned from him or the best piece of advice he ever gave you?

• 40:41Speaker 00

  I can't really, I mean, I probably could sit here and recollect all the things he said to me, but he, he spent time with me.

• 40:49Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 40:51Speaker 00

  He was my baseball coach. Every season, somehow he graduated to the next league and somehow he had found his way into that league to be my baseball coach. And, because I wanted to be a professional baseball player. And I was, I was obviously built for it, but I had a lot of natural ability. My skills, you know, were good. And I learned that from my dad, because he was a great ball player, a minor league ball player. Yeah. He threw baseball with me every single day.

• 41:15Josh Axe?

  Wow.

• 41:16Speaker 00

  Every single day. If it weren't the ball field, we were out on the sidewalk in front of our house. So he just spent time with me all the time. And so,

• 41:23Josh Axe?

  So good.

• 41:24Speaker 00

  And then when the baseball thing didn't happen, which I thought, oh my gosh, my dad's going to be so disappointed because I made the All-Stars every year. And at 15, I didn't make the All-Stars. And that's when I felt like God wanted me to be in music. Well, then my dad becomes my quote, unquote, PR agent, telling everybody how great I was all the time, which was embarrassing. Even at 18, he would say, oh, my dad, dad, you don't have to, you don't have to do that. Yeah. And he would say the craziest things, just like he was, he just, he just thought I hung the moon. My mom and dad were more popular than I, I just, but when I would get recognized all the time in the store, I'd get somebody would, I felt like I was being stalked by somebody. I just, they want my autograph, you know, for 20 years this happened. Because my mom and dad ended up

• 42:09Speaker 00

  moving to Nashville. I get recognized, they go, you're Michael Lewis. I went, yeah, it's nice to meet you. And she's, oh, we love your mom and dad. And they would sit there for 10 minutes.

• 42:19Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 42:20Speaker 00

  Talking about my mom and dad, you know. So to back up and just say, yeah, my dad spent time with me. I watched him how he treated people. And he thought I hung the moon. Yeah. Uh, Billy, to be able to, to co-labor with him on that first youth night, which was in Cleveland, Ohio in 1994, there was 80,000 kids in Cleveland Stadium. And to be able to, it was me and DC Talk. DC Talk played, I played. And for me to be able to introduce Billy for the first youth night, which that's a whole other story. I've written about, written about that in my latest book. It was a lot of hesitation of, we're going to get rid of the choir, we're going to have a rock concert.

• 43:05Speaker 00

  And I think Billy's team was, was not looked on favorably at all. But Billy thought, we got to reach the next generation. So, but whatever, to introduce him, to watch him give one, I think, one of the best messages I've ever heard him give. And watch 10,000 kids come down and accept Christ. It's a top five for me. And to be able to do that two or three times a year, 95, 96, and all through, gosh, the next 10, 11, 12 years.

• 43:34Josh Axe?

  What'd you learn from Billy? What was the single biggest thing you thought, you know, this is?

• 43:38Speaker 00

  Uh, he was on point, man. I'm telling you, I mean, we could, we talked about family, wanted to know about the kids. But man, it was all just about sharing the gospel.

• 43:48Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 43:48Speaker 00

  I mean, it's just all about sharing Jesus with the world.

• 43:53Josh Axe?

  It was a sort of singular focus of this is the,

• 43:55Speaker 00

  Pretty much. And we would expand and we'd think, oh yeah, we're thinking about, oh yeah, we're talking about Bono, because Bono came up, he's a friend of mine, he came up and visited. And I knew the Bushes, he obviously knew the Bushes. And so we'd talk a little bit about that. But, and then he would pray for me. When he got, when he couldn't get out of his house, obviously being fragile. So I would just go up and take my piano and I would just play his favorite hymns. And he would pray over me. I'd go, this is like, Billy Graham's laying hands on me. And then the last two times I went, he didn't have the energy, but they put headphones on. And I would play his favorite hymns and he would, I could hear him humming along with me. And then

• 44:40Speaker 00

  he couldn't pray for me. So I'm laying hands on Billy, I'm praying for Billy. It's like,

• 44:46Speaker 00

  wow. And it's, it's just, it was rich, just rich. But he knew, and I say this with all humility, he knew that there was an amazing call of God on my life.

• 44:59Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 45:00Speaker 00

  So I think he was just, every time we, we would sort of get back on point of what I'm called to do, you know, was to share the gospel through my music. And we talked about how powerful music was, you know, he knew that, you know, that's why he did the rock concert, or whatever, that's what he called it. Because we're going to pull the kids in. And we got their attention. They all came because of maybe me and DC Talk, and maybe later on in the years, I get, started getting older, and maybe another younger man. But they came, and then he's got, he got them.

• 45:30Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 45:30Speaker 00

  Catching fish.

• 45:31Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 45:32Speaker 00

  And draw them in, and then he gives the message and they respond to it. So, and then Finto, man, just edifying me, nonstop. And memorizing scripture together. Great story with Don. We walked Radnor Lake for years and years and years. We'd walk it every week. And we never stopped. We just walk, walk, walk. And we'd talk and we'd pray. And then the one time, I think it was the second or third time we'd ever done it, we sat on a bench. And he said, Michael, and then he started to quote and stuff. And I go, it's almost like, what's, what's he doing? And I'm going, oh my gosh, he's, he is the image of the invisible God, the first one among all creation. For by him, all things were created, things in heaven, on earth, invisible and indivisible. And I go,

• 46:17Speaker 00

  oh my gosh, he's quoting Colossians. He quoted the whole book by memory, like he wrote it to me.

• 46:25Josh Axe?

  Wow.

• 46:25Speaker 00

  The whole book. And I went, wow. I was blown. And I went, I've got to learn how to do that. So I went home that night and stayed up to three o'clock in the morning. And I memorized Colossians 1, 9 through 16.

• 46:41Josh Axe?

  Wow.

• 46:42Speaker 00

  And then I memorized Psalm 138. And I memorized Psalm 139, I memorized Romans 8. And I just started memorizing scripture. And I would walk. And Don and I would go to Mount La Cote, and we'd walk and quote back and try to memorize Psalm 139. And then I used Psalm 139, I quoted, I can still quote it. I still quote the whole thing for you. And I used to do it on stage, quote Psalm 139. It's powerful. To the, to the point, at one point, there was somebody, a friend of mine that was, you know, girlfriend got pregnant and was going to abort the child. And, and he was there and heard

• 47:21Speaker 00

  me quote Psalm 139. And went back to his girlfriend, says, we can't abort this child. So they got married and had the child and named their son after my son, Ryan. So it's just all the backstories of, oh, here's what they, Finto did, here's what Billy did, here's what my dad did. But it's all sort of the overflow of just the, how they poured into my life. And it's, and it's fruitful.

• 47:48Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 47:49Speaker 00

  It becomes fruit. And you go, gosh, I'm doing this stuff today because of what these three men did in my life.

• 47:56Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 47:57Speaker 00

  It's incredible.

• 47:58Josh Axe?

  Yeah. That's so incredible. Yeah. I was just such a testament to just the power, again, discipleship, right? Discipleship. And I think that, you know, so funny, because I've done, my biggest focus, of course, has been in the health space. The other thing though, I've spent some time sort of coaching and mentoring other, other doctors and people in the health space. But one of the, one of the things that I've heard pretty frequently from people is, some people saying, oh, I want to mentor, but I don't have one, or know where to get one. And I'll tell you a quick story here. So when I first moved to Nashville, I heard Dave Ramsey on, on the radio. And I thought, I want to do what he does. And so I started a health radio show modeled after Dave, where people would call in and I would answer their health questions. And I went up to Dave

• 48:43Josh Axe?

  once, I said, Dave, and I didn't know Dave that well, but I just met him. I said, hey, would you mentor me? And he's like, Josh, I'm so honored that you asked, but no, I don't have the time. I said, okay, you know. But then I was really prayerful. I was like, God, like I was, I said, I just really feel like I need somebody that's ahead of me, that can really mentor me and lead me. And it was so crazy, a few months later, I met Jordan Rubin. And Jordan Rubin's not, not a lot older. I mean, he's probably about seven years older than I am.

• 49:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:09Josh Axe?

  And they're just amazing. I just, I just kept praying. And at first, and you know, some people said, no, but Jordan was the right person. You know, such a, such a perfect relationship for me to be able to just learn from him and all the things, amazing things he's done. And so God's so faithful now. But any advice for people who are saying to themselves, hey, I, I want to have some sort of mentor, be discipled in some way, the best way to, to get that or pursue that?

• 49:35Speaker 00

  You know what? I honestly think everybody needs a mentor. And I know that's easier said than done, you know. I mean, it was natural for me. Belmont Church and,

• 49:47Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 49:47Speaker 00

  Don married us and we connected. It was just a natural connection. But I think there's somebody out there, honestly. And I think, this is really interesting, you asked me this question, because Don and I've talked about this for a long time, because I feel like, you know, Don, he's like a father to the city. He's, he's a father. And I have felt like for quite some time that part of my calling is to father. And I don't say, oh, I'm too young. I'm too young to father, you know, I'm still learning, you know. And I don't think, I'm definitely still learning. But I think part of my role is to, is to mentor. And how I do that, who I do that with, I just know that I have a

• 50:30Speaker 00

  lot of good stuff to share. And that's the bad and the good, the good choices and the not so good choices. And I'm having these young musicians whose families are struggling and they're in the quote unquote, Christian music business, even the country world going, how'd you do it?

• 50:45Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 50:46Speaker 00

  How'd you survive success? How is it that you're married to the same woman for almost 45 years? So they're asking me, so gosh, why would I not take the time and walk people through some of that?

• 51:04Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 51:05Speaker 00

  We've started a little thing. We did our first little meeting about mentoring young couples. We had it at our house last month. Dom was there. It was amazing. It was amazing. It was amazing first meeting him. So I think it's beginning to happen, you know? But saying that, you know, if you don't have a mentor, then you just gotta, then ask God to show you who that is.

• 51:26Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 51:26Speaker 00

  And I think he will, you know?

• 51:28Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 51:28Speaker 00

  Again, the internet is a, is a dangerous thing, but there's so much great stuff, you know?

• 51:34Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 51:34Speaker 00

  This show, hello, you know, but just, uh, you know, Deb's always sending me little things like, did you hear this guy? This guy from Scotland? Oh, he's incredible. And so there's these, there's these podcasts and little things that you can find snippets of or that are like, you can kind of get mentored by these guys a little bit. You might not even know them.

• 51:54Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 51:54Speaker 00

  You know? So I think that's a good thing.

• 51:57Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 51:57Speaker 00

  Uh, if you don't have a Don Finto.

• 51:59Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 52:00Speaker 00

  But I think God can give you a Finto.

• 52:02Josh Axe?

  Yeah, I think so too. You know, I think that I've tried to balance things where there are certain people, you know, pastors, leaders think that I just constantly am learning from online. You know, a few people that I, I've tended to follow over the years and really liked, and of course, he, he's struggling with his health right now, but Jordan Peterson.

• 52:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:17Josh Axe?

  I think he's been really amazing. There's a Catholic bishop named Bishop Barron, learning from him. And then I've got, yeah, a lot of other Christian pastors and things that I, I watch on YouTube. And so I just have their channels and that's probably where I, where I learned. But then I think that, um, to your point also, just having somebody in person, I agree. For me, prayer was the single biggest thing I think helped me find, you know, finding a mentor, but also me pursuing it myself, like going to church, joining growth groups, like actually, because I think sometimes it's like, we wait for, we want to sit back, but I think there's something else about us actually pursuing. One other thing I'll say, and I know that you're like this, is that any time I've had a mentor who's been willing to pour into me,

• 52:56Josh Axe?

  I try and absolutely surrender. And of course, with a strong moral conscience of, of, with this in terms of, you know, I'm not listening to everything somebody says, I'm walking with the Holy Spirit in this, but trying to like, if they are giving me advice, I'm following it. You know, I'm really taking action and going out of my way. Cause you know, anytime I've given anybody advice, if they go and take action with advice I give them, I just want to keep pouring into them.

• 53:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:20Josh Axe?

  Right? Versus if I've given plenty of people advice over the years and it's like, well, they don't do it.

• 53:25Speaker 00

  They don't do it.

• 53:25Josh Axe?

  And I, and I don't want to, you know, and, and so I think that's just an important thing too, that you are surrendered and coachable and a good disciple. If God, you know, sends that person to, to you.

• 53:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, I agree.

• 53:37Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 53:37Speaker 00

  I agree.

• 53:38Josh Axe?

  So, so one thing I just picked up from you is, is that, uh, you know, I, I know you're, you're generally pretty healthy. You know, we talked about, you've got a greenhouse, you've got chickens.

• 53:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:48Josh Axe?

  I mean, that's, that's fantastic. You and your, your family, your, your son and family. But also I think you've got some, maybe there's some good health habits. Again, you're, you're 68. You said you want to be doing this in your eighties and nineties. What are some of your just natural rhythms and, and habits you have that, that keep you healthy?

• 54:03Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, I try to keep moving. I swim every morning.

• 54:09Josh Axe?

  Really?

• 54:09Speaker 00

  I was swimming at six 30 this morning.

• 54:11Josh Axe?

  Wow.

• 54:12Speaker 00

  I'm not a great swimmer. You know, I just kick my legs and side strokes and swim on my back. And I try to just stay in there for 30 minutes and just, that's sort of, and it kind of, it's kind of my, it's kind of my God time. You know, I kind of love, I put my earplugs in. You kind of feel like you're in a spaceship, you're in outer space a little bit. Cause you, it's weird when you have your really good plugs in your ears. And so you're in the water. There's something about being in the water. And there's something about, God, here I am. Lord have mercy on me. Oh, God, according to your step, that's love, according to your great compassion, blood, out my many transgressions. I just start quoting all the, the great prayer scriptures that, that I've got embedded in my heart and head. And then I usually come out, I, I get in the hot tub and stretch, you know, and then I water the flower. I would just stay active.

• 54:57Speaker 00

  And then the first thing I do normally is I get to do some, uh, lemon juice.

• 55:03Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 55:03Speaker 00

  And, um, I see the lemon juice with some olive oil and I'll just take that, or it's lemon juice and apple cider vinegar and a little cayenne.

• 55:11Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 55:12Speaker 00

  And just, and that, that kind of wakes up a little bit, you know? And then I usually try to sit and just sell and swing and just try to take the word and just at least have just, even if it's just five minutes, you know, just sort of, start the day and then I'll figure out what I'm going to eat. And it's either eggs, I eat a lot of eggs.

• 55:30Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 55:31Speaker 00

  Every other day, you know, a little cottage cheese with the eggs and I love on cornbread.

• 55:36Josh Axe?

  Oh, so good.

• 55:38Speaker 00

  That's the best.

• 55:38Josh Axe?

  Oh, yeah.

• 55:39Speaker 00

  The best. Um, if it's not that yogurt, then, you know, and do pumpkin seeds every morning. I've had a,

• 55:47Speaker 00

  when you talked about he- health issues earlier, I, I had a big health scare two years ago. I had parasites. And much as I travel all around the world.

• 55:54Josh Axe?

  Oh, yeah.

• 55:55Speaker 00

  Oh, it was awful.

• 55:57Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 55:58Speaker 00

  It was awful and got healed by a natural doctor in College Grove, Tennessee. And, but I'm always conscious that, and I love sushi. And I, so I don't eat much sushi anymore.

• 56:08Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 56:08Speaker 00

  I have to be really be careful. But pumpkin seeds every morning, yogurt, uh, and then lots of salads, lots of fish. I'm not a vegetarian, so I do chicken, you know, but it's all, all natural stuff.

• 56:22Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 56:23Speaker 00

  And then like, as I said earlier, a lot of times it's just a lot of green beans and squash and zucchini. And Deb gets creative with, you know, we'll have some turkey and she'll get creative with it and do something fun. A lot of guacamole, avocado.

• 56:36Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 56:36Speaker 00

  I'm trying to gain a little weight because I'm a little thin. So I'm just trying to put on just a little bit of weight. Jordan's helped me with that.

• 56:43Josh Axe?

  Nice.

• 56:43Speaker 00

  Yeah. And then trying not to like, you know,

• 56:48Speaker 00

  you know, trying not to eat a lot at night.

• 56:50Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 56:51Speaker 00

  Yeah. You know, we've just been taught, oh, we had, we were going to have a big dinner.

• 56:55Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 56:55Speaker 00

  Breakfast, have a, oh, we have a big dinner. I'm not really, I don't think that, because I don't feel good when I wake up the next day if I eat something.

• 57:03Josh Axe?

  Yep.

• 57:05Speaker 00

  Heavy. And I'm going to say heavy, uh, even just a lot of food.

• 57:08Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 57:09Speaker 00

  So I'm trying to do better at that. And then, you know, I look at my habits in the past with pizzas after the show and all that stuff. Those days are over.

• 57:17Josh Axe?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 57:19Speaker 00

  My weakness is probably chips and salsa because I love salsa and I love chips. And so we're on chips with avocado oil. That's a little better.

• 57:26Josh Axe?

  There you go.

• 57:27Speaker 00

  You know, uh, I'm back on raw milk, which I thought I had some issue with, you know, with milk, but I've, so far I think it's okay.

• 57:35Josh Axe?

  Okay.

• 57:36Speaker 00

  So, um, but it's pretty simple, you know, just, I don't, I don't eat out a lot.

• 57:43Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 57:43Speaker 00

  Because I don't know what they're cooking with in the kitchen.

• 57:46Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 57:47Speaker 00

  So that's a big deal. Seed oils and all that sort of thing, you know? So it's a lot of stuff that I'm learning and Deb is, she's a great student of all that, you know? So she, she knows even more than I do. So it's great to have a wife that knows how to make the right things for both of us.

• 58:07Josh Axe?

  Oh, yeah. I'm impressed.

• 58:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:09Josh Axe?

  I mean, you're swimming, you're doing your lemon juice water in the morning, you're doing olive oil, you're doing a lot of healthy plants and protein and, uh, that's good. Wow. I'm, I'm really impressed.

• 58:18Speaker 00

  Trying to stay up, trying to stay with it.

• 58:20Josh Axe?

  Staying active. Yeah. And that's, it's so good. And I think there's also something about, you've got great community. You love what, you got a purpose, you know? I mean, these are things that really are important for longevity and health. And, and you've got a great marriage. So we were just saying, so you've been married as long as I've been alive.

• 58:35Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 58:36Josh Axe?

  With 44 years, going on 45 here. And, and what would you attribute to having such a strong marriage for that long for? Or if there's other couples or people hearing, you know, I want to have a really deep, meaningful marriage.

• 58:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:50Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 58:50Speaker 00

  Well, first of all, I'm married way over my head and she's, she's a godly woman. She's godly. This blows my mind.

• 59:01Speaker 00

  I think probably, I mean, I, I say this a lot in interviews when I talk about this, but it's simple, but it's just communication.

• 59:09Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 59:10Speaker 00

  And what happens to couples a lot of times is they have arguments and they have difference of opinions and they fight. And it's okay to have an argument every once in a while if you disagree, but they take offense and then they stop talking. And then the wood fester's and then the gap gets wider.

• 59:28Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 59:29Speaker 00

  And then you're trying to recover and. I just said, we can't do that. So I just got into the habit, even if like, we disagreed about something and it was her fault, maybe that I thought was her fault, I would just say it's my fault.

• 59:42Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 59:42Speaker 00

  Cause I just want everything to be okay.

• 59:44Josh Axe?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 59:45Speaker 00

  I don't want to let the sun go down on my anger, you know?

• 59:47Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 59:48Speaker 00

  But it's always been communication, communication, communication. And then with the kind of work that I'm in, just the, you know, it's, it's, gosh, I got an extraordinary life.

• 1:00:00Speaker 00

  To be able to get to do what I get to do. But it's a dangerous one, cause it's like, I'm this celebrity that I hate that word. I've, I've, I try to downplay it as much as I can. But everybody tells you how great you are all the time.

• 1:00:12Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:13Speaker 00

  You know, oh, you changed my life. And I love that. Thank you, God. But you know, if you just, you just keep, keep going. All of a sudden you start believing the oppressed and then all of a sudden you lose your way and, and then you lose your marriage. And so I remember Deb and I, when this whole pop thing took off in places where, and that was kind of, that was maybe the toughest time of our marriage, cause I was

• 1:00:35Speaker 00

  on all the talk shows and, you know, and all these ladies are throwing themselves at me. I'd always have a team around me and Deb's home, you know, four kids at that point and nursing one and I'm on Jay Leno and, you know, it's just, it's a little tough. But we knew, I remember us having this big conversation going, you know what, there's, there's probably, if you look at the stats, there's probably a better chance of us being a casualty than not. So we have to determine that we're not going to be a casualty.

• 1:01:04Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:04Speaker 00

  And we are not gonna lose our marriage.

• 1:01:08Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:08Speaker 00

  So we did everything in our power to protect that.

• 1:01:12Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:13Speaker 00

  And here we are.

• 1:01:16Josh Axe?

  Yeah. I mean, we, we, we've seen this obviously in recent years more than, I feel like more than ever in terms of just, you know, pastors and churches and musicians, just, you know, just, just falling, you know?

• 1:01:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:27Josh Axe?

  Do you have any, I guess, any thoughts about that in terms of just maybe the root of that of maybe being just lackadaisical or not being as focused as you guys were on sort of just protecting that, you know, any thoughts there?

• 1:01:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, I just think that, yeah, especially leaders, but just everybody who's trying to walk this walk and people are falling and you can't be a Lone Ranger and you just, you, yeah, you just, you really, really, really, my opinion, you have to fight for it, man.

• 1:01:59Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:00Speaker 00

  You gotta fight for it. I even say, you know, if you don't fight for it, you're gonna go down.

• 1:02:07Josh Axe?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:07Speaker 00

  You will go down.

• 1:02:08Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:10Speaker 00

  So you, so whatever means possible, and if that's just daily accountability to somebody, having a group of people, who are you, who are you hanging out with? If you got a guy, you know, that's taken a dive and fallen, he more than likely didn't have a very good community.

• 1:02:27Josh Axe?

  That's right.

• 1:02:27Speaker 00

  And he wasn't honest.

• 1:02:29Josh Axe?

  That's right.

• 1:02:29Speaker 00

  And so whoever that team is, you've either lied to them, or hopefully that community of people would go, bro, you're not being on the up and up with us.

• 1:02:39Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:40Speaker 00

  You know, you kind of start to see through it a little bit. So you just gotta fight for it. You gotta fight for it.

• 1:02:46Josh Axe?

  Yeah. I mean, I, I think the other thing you said there with fighting for it though, I think is so important is that, and, and I think that this has happened maybe in Protestant churches even more and more. There's been more fractioning, cause there's so many denominations now. And so there's a lot of churches that are, they just kind of stand by themselves, like that pastor does not have any mentorship, doesn't have the community around them. There's no accountability.

• 1:03:05Speaker 00

  Yeah. And it's the hardest job in the world.

• 1:03:07Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:08Speaker 00

  I mean, I did it for two years with New River and I, and I fell in love with the flock. I fell in love with people. I go, whoa. It just was, well, it was tough for me because I, you know, I'm a, I'm from the mindset of going, can we not just love God and love people?

• 1:03:26Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:26Speaker 00

  You know, and a lot of people in the congregation who

• 1:03:32Speaker 00

  wanted to bitch and moan or whatever, you know, where they always had to complain. It's just kind of, oh, that would, that would wear me out, you know? Cause I thought, we've got so many important things to do. We gotta bring kingdom down to earth, you know, and all that stuff. But yeah, it's,

• 1:03:48Speaker 00

  thankfully, there's a lot of great ministries out there. I know several of them. I've supported some of them that are ministering to pastors, you know, just, just a, a wide thing. I know it's a bunch of them in America. They're just ministering to burnout pastors, cause it's a hard job.

• 1:04:03Josh Axe?

  It is.

• 1:04:03Speaker 00

  Hard job.

• 1:04:04Josh Axe?

  Yeah. Well, and if you think, you know, if you think of the strategy of, you know, of Satan, it's, hey, you know, let's go after the leader, right? Cause it's going to affect everyone beneath too. And so I think there's a bigger target there and.

• 1:04:16Speaker 00

  I'll say one other thing about that too, and you might disagree and your viewers might disagree. I'm not sure we do church right.

• 1:04:24Josh Axe?

  I, I agree. Yeah.

• 1:04:26Speaker 00

  So I always go back and look at Acts. You know, well, all happened there. How did, how did all that go down? And how they took care of the poor and took care of each other. And I'm in, from the mindset of, of, yeah, you gotta have a pastor. He's gotta bring the word. But it's life groups, people doing life groups and people walking with each other instead of,

• 1:04:47Speaker 00

  I'm not a big, big, big church fan, you know, but I know there's great things happening in big congregations, but I'm, I'm kind of the mindset, if it gets so big, you start another fellowship, start another fellowship and don't lose the community. So when you do have a large congregation, you really do have to fight for community. So you gotta have home groups, you know? So again, I, I'm not trying to throw anybody under the bus, cause I don't know everything. I'm just, I just think that the mentality of what we all think a pastor should be, I'm not totally convinced that's what God's plan is.

• 1:05:22Josh Axe?

  Well, I think the other thing is when you look at the early church, and I think that this, this sort of example could be used in almost anything. You know, at some point, like when I, before I started practicing, as I sat in a classroom.

• 1:05:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:33Josh Axe?

  And I, I learned some things.

• 1:05:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:36Josh Axe?

  But you can't stop there.

• 1:05:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:38Josh Axe?

  When I was in practice, I learned 10 times more than when I was in school.

• 1:05:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:42Josh Axe?

  10 times more. And I also became, you know, way more effective.

• 1:05:46Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:05:47Josh Axe?

  And so I think that's sort of the model today. It's we're sitting, we're learning, this sort of Western civilization of we're just gonna learn and accumulate information. But versus the priority is, well, now you're graduating or now it's applying it, right? And so we see that in Acts, right? It's, we're taking care of the poor, we're serving them, we're, we're doing that. And so I just think that we've kind of made the education part and the entertainment part, the bigger pieces versus the others. And it's just become very imbalanced.

• 1:06:12Speaker 00

  I totally agree.

• 1:06:13Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:14Josh Axe?

  Yeah. And that's, that's one of the things that's, again, I've been so blessed to be able to just be around some amazing mentors and people that have allowed me to, I think, grow in that way and be sharpened that way. So again, home, home groups to me are being able to have those Bible studies is so valuable. And then just going out and serving, utilizing our gifts for, for God. All right, two more things. One, you know, if, if there are people listening and maybe they, they've gone to church some, they consider themselves Christians or non-Christians, but they're saying to themselves, like, I want more than that.

• 1:06:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:43Josh Axe?

  And for me, and I know you, it's, there's been a walking with Jesus, this deep intimate connection. How can people cultivate that real relationship with Jesus? Like I remember my grandfather, he would always tell me, he, he taught me to pray really. And he would say, you know, Jesus is here with you. Like he's sitting on the bed, like he's here with you right now. He's holding your hand. He's, he's here. And I think that was really good for me. And also thinking of it as this relationship, just like we have a relationship going deep in that way, like, but what is your best advice for people who want more and they want to build a true relationship with Jesus?

• 1:07:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. I just think you have to declare the promises of God over you on a daily basis.

• 1:07:22Speaker 00

  I mean, Satan wants to accuse you. He wants to take you down. He wants to tell you, you're, you're not this and you're not that. Look at what you did. You know, you start to believe that, oh, I don't measure up. Uh, I'm a lost cause. I can't ever get it together. I do the things I don't want to do. Like Paul says, the things I don't want to do, I do. And you start beating yourself up. And if you get in that sort of thing, you can't climb out of that. I mean, if, if you, you have to speak life over yourself. And I've got all these promises of God thing that I love, that I go to all the time, that who I am in Christ and who I am. And then I heard Don the other day say, this is, gosh, because it would be what I would,

• 1:08:03Speaker 00

  I say this, cause I saw a little clip from Greg Laurie interviewing Chuck Swindoll. So great, you know? If you had to preach your last sermon, what would it be? And Chuck just, you know, that exuberant, you know, big smile. I talk about the grace of God. I mean, it's so great. I love that guy. But you know, the whole thing of just, Don was painting the picture in Romans three and, oh my gosh, it's depressing and oh, I guess we're, you know, we're just, we're doomed, da, da, da, da. But, but what happens? God knew that we couldn't do it. He knew we couldn't do it. He knew we couldn't do it. So he made a way.

• 1:08:37Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:38Speaker 00

  He made a way. And so those who believe, those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, he will, by faith, he will credit you with righteousness. So if you believe.

• 1:08:52Speaker 00

  Then I'm righteous. I mean, he looks at me like there's a white sheet right over my head. He didn't see my, he didn't see the stuff. He doesn't, he sees me as righteous. And if we can say, wow, I mean, and Donald say, man, go while all that for in it for a while. He said, that's the best gospel that anybody can ever preach for the rest of their lives.

• 1:09:12Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:13Speaker 00

  And that's what the world needs to hear. And that's what we're supposed to do. Preach the gospel to every continent, to all peoples. And it's simple, you know, it's simple. But if you can get, if you can find those scriptures where that's one, there's many, but I love that one by faith. If you have faith and believe on him, he's, he just, he's going to give you righteousness. So you're righteous. The end of, end of story.

• 1:09:39Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:40Speaker 00

  That's extraordinary to me. Absolutely extraordinary to me. And that's why I get up every day. And that's why I could put one foot in front of the other and going, I'm destined for greatness.

• 1:09:51Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:51Speaker 00

  Not because of my gifts, not because I'm Michael W Smith. It's nothing to do with it. I'm destined for greatness because I know who I am and I'm a child of God and I'm righteous.

• 1:10:03Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:04Speaker 00

  In process, like we all are.

• 1:10:06Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:07Speaker 00

  But when you get in that mindset, it's a game changer.

• 1:10:11Josh Axe?

  I love that. I love that. It's so good. I, I think that, um, you know, one, one of the things that happens is when you, to your point, when you embrace Jesus as your Lord and Savior now, and start building this relationship with him, that now, I mean, your calling goes from zero to 100. I mean, you know, your purpose, your mission, the meaning of your life.

• 1:10:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:29Josh Axe?

  Everything changes that radically. And so the more that you realize that, how much you're loved and how much responsibility now you have to go out and change the world, it's, it is so powerful, knowing what it means to be a child of God.

• 1:10:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:41Josh Axe?

  You've got so many things going on. You've done so much, but you've got a lot more coming up. What are you most excited about right now?

• 1:10:47Speaker 00

  You know, I'm excited about the new record. You know, this is my 37th album, believe it or not. This is insane. I love that I'm, I'm creating again. You know, I've been working on a symphony for 10 years. I'd love to finish that. You know, the acting thing comes up, but I don't, you know, I'm not, I don't want to do that unless I find a great script, you know, and, um, but I'm really having fun just creating and to be able to do it as long as I have, there's not, and I say this with, with so much gratefulness in my heart. There's not to me, people get to do it as long as I have.

• 1:11:22Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:23Speaker 00

  You know, usually you have a 10 year and then, and then you're done or your five year. I mean, if you look, there's not, the list is pretty short.

• 1:11:30Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:31Speaker 00

  And this is my 43rd year of doing this. Um, but having fun with Ted and he's pushing me and I'll go into the, the, get on this upright piano and I just start writing stuff and Ted's going, oh my gosh, what is that? What is that? Hit record. You know, it's just like you get around creative people and it feeds you. And all of a sudden I'm writing stuff going, oh my gosh, I have never written a song like this in my entire life and I love it.

• 1:11:57Josh Axe?

  Wow.

• 1:11:58Speaker 00

  So to me, you can't try to be somebody else. And I love what all these other people were doing. I love what Force Frank's doing. I mean, golly, that guy's just, he's out there sharing gospel. Thousands of people getting saved every night, you know? I mean, it's, it's amazing, you know? So there's all these great, but I'm not Force Frank. I don't, we don't need another Bono. We don't need another Paul McCartney. I'm just, I'm me. And I remember Kyle, and I'll end here saying this, when I was wrestling with, what do I write? And I remember Kyle Lee, the producer I've worked with in the past, who I love, very talented guy. He said, you know what? You need to make a record for yourself, which he was saying, you need to make a record that you love. And more than

• 1:12:39Speaker 00

  likely, if you love it, there's probably a better chance than not that other people will love it as well. So to me, when you write something that just makes you come alive.

• 1:12:48Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:50Speaker 00

  It doesn't get any better than that. And it's so fulfilling and you're so excited. And even if it doesn't connect, maybe that's okay.

• 1:12:58Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:59Speaker 00

  And some songs maybe are just, maybe song, some songs are just written for God.

• 1:13:05Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:06Speaker 00

  But audience of one, maybe it's just, maybe, maybe nobody will hear this melody that I wrote. It's an instrumental, maybe you'll never see the light of day, but I, sometimes I feel like God's saying, well done. Yeah. It's good stuff.

• 1:13:22Josh Axe?

  There's Bible verse about it. Whatever you do, do it to the Lord. I love it.

• 1:13:25Speaker 00

  Do it unto the Lord. And, and that's what I'm trying to do on a daily basis, that you, you've been given this gift. It's a great responsibility. What are you going to do with it? He's just going to bury it. I'm not going to bury it. I'm going to, as long as there's creativity coming from heaven. And I say that, and we were, I heard somebody the other day going, you know, played some song and some guy's going, oh yeah, it's all him. And somebody said, it wasn't that great, you know? So I'm always careful saying, it's all him. You know, you have to, you, one of my greatest, two things, and maybe I'll end here, two, one, two of my greatest things that I would love to do

• 1:14:06Speaker 00

  in life. So I'd love to be able to peek into the window of heaven and just hear just five seconds of what's going on up there and bring that down. But that would be awesome, you know? And then the other thing, and this is a, on a personal note, and I think I'm almost there. I'm getting there. I pray that I'll never, ever, ever be offended by anyone ever again.

• 1:14:28Speaker 00

  And would that just be the most freeing place that you don't really care what people think about you?

• 1:14:31Josh Axe?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:32Speaker 00

  So I'm getting there.

• 1:14:33Josh Axe?

  That's so good. It's a book I read years ago. I think it was called, When God is Big and People Are Small. But sort of that perspective of, that's what you care about is, you know, God, you know, he's looking down on you. You know, Jesus is here with us and that you're making him proud. You're heavenly father proud. And that's what matters most. And I love that perspective. It's so powerful. Michael, thanks so much for coming on today. I mean, I've been so blessed. I've learned so much. I've been just convicted in terms of just continuing to delve deeper and memorize scripture and just continue to be better in life. And I think there's something also about your life that is, I mean, this is the most positive way possible. There, there's some complexity, but there's also simplicity of, uh, trying to say yes to the things that matter most, really focusing on God, focusing on family, focusing on your gifts and mission, and not a lot,

• 1:15:16Josh Axe?

  a lot, lot else, you know? And so focusing on those things. And I love that. I just want to say, hey, thanks everybody for listening and tuning in here, the Dr. Act Show. I hope you've been as blessed with this conversation as I have with Michael W. Smith. I want to encourage you, go out and check out his albums. Actually, let me ask you that quick. Where, where could people find, you know, I guess probably today where they go Spotify, iTunes.

• 1:15:35Speaker 00

  Yeah. MichaelWSmith.com. You can kind of find it all there. But yeah, Spotify, Apple, who knows? I probably don't even know half of them.

• 1:15:42Josh Axe?

  You can follow on social media too. A great place to follow him. And if you're not subscribed yet to the podcast, make sure you subscribe as well and share this. You know, there are so many people, by the way, I'm going to be going and sharing this. My mom's going to love this. I'm going to be sharing this with my mom and family members because they've been big fans of you, Michael, for years. And so think about one person you could share this with, share it with them on text message or social media, or maybe a group chat, if you're in a group chat with people, uh, might bless somebody. And again, thanks for subscribing and thanks so much for listening here. And hey, if you're watching on YouTube, leave a comment. Let us know. What is your favorite Michael W. Smith song? Uh, what is something that he shared with you today that you're going to walk away with a piece of wisdom that Michael shared? We'd love to hear from you as well. So thanks so much for tuning in. We'll see you on the next episode.