Reacting to: “If I Can’t Buy a Home, Why Don’t I Just Be Gorgeous?”

💻 Shape what comes next for Smart Money Happy Hour by participating in our Spring 2026 audience study! If you’re an exhausted millennial wondering if buying a home is a lost cause, we get it—and we’ve got you. Today, we’re unpacking common home-buying frustrations and real estate woes. Spoiler alert: Yes, it’s still possible! Next Steps: 🎙️ Catch our episode How to Financially Survive Every Season of Life 🎬 Watch George’s episode I Asked People at Disney How Much Debt They Have. 🍸 Follow Smart Money Happy Hour on TikTok: @smartmoneyhappyhour 📱 Submit a Guilty As Charged question for Rachel and George! Leave us a voicemail with your question at 877-306-1517 or send a DM to @rachelcruze or @georgekamel on Instagram! Be sure to type “GUILTY?” at the top of your message so we don’t miss it. 💵 Create a free budget and find more margin with EveryDollar. 🏠 Your free, step-by-step course to buying a house that fits your budget. 💻 See how much house you can afford with the Mortgage Calculator. Connect With Our Sponsors: Check out the FAIRWINDS Credit Union exclusive account bundle. Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Get 20% off with code SMARTMONEY at Cozy Earth. Today’s Happy Hour Special: 🍹 Basil & Lillet Spritz Recipe by Emily Laurae 1 ounce Lillet 4–5 basil leaves 4 ounces sparkling wine Instructions: In a shaker, combine Lillet and basil leaves and shake with ice for 30 seconds. Strain into a glass filled with ice. Top with sparkling wine and garnish with a basil leaf before serving. Explore More From Ramsey Network: 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05George Kamel?

  This one goes out to anyone who feels like owning a home is a lost cause at this point. Chin up, millennial soldiers. We've got you.

• 0:12Rachel Cruze?

  I can start a fire in our fireplace.

• 0:15George Kamel?

  Isn't it just like, like Baby Jenga?

• 0:16Rachel Cruze?

  Are you guilty of overpaying for anything as a homeowner?

• 0:21George Kamel?

  Well, that's a loaded question.

• 0:27Rachel Cruze?

  Hey guys, I'm Rachel Cruz.

• 0:29George Kamel?

  I'm George Kamel.

• 0:31Rachel Cruze?

  And this is

• 0:32George Kamel?

  Smart Money Happy Hour.

• 0:35Rachel Cruze?

  Cheers.

• 0:35George Kamel?

  Cheers.

• 0:39Rachel Cruze?

  Hey guys, this is the show where two friends who happen to be money experts talk about what you're talking about. Everything from pop culture, current events, and money.

• 0:46George Kamel?

  But first, let's talk about what we're sipping on. This is a basil and Lillet spritz.

• 0:50Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, Lillet.

• 0:51George Kamel?

  A little French thrown in there for fun.

• 0:53Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, Lillet.

• 0:54George Kamel?

  It's not Lillet. We found that out the hard way. I watched many a pronunciation video on YouTube.

• 0:59Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, did you?

• 1:00George Kamel?

  Which by the way, guys, if you're gonna make pronunciation videos, just get right to it. We don't need an intro. Don't need a preamble.

• 1:06Rachel Cruze?

  She's the whole thing.

• 1:06George Kamel?

  Just tell us how to say the word.

• 1:07Rachel Cruze?

  Just need to know how to say the word.

• 1:09George Kamel?

  There we go.

• 1:09Rachel Cruze?

  Did your girl not help you, your little AI friend?

• 1:11George Kamel?

  I didn't ask her.

• 1:12Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, she'd be like, "Oh my gosh, George, you are so smart to even ask. Not many people ask the pronunciation of that word."

• 1:19George Kamel?

  That's a very astute question.

• 1:21Rachel Cruze?

  "Let me tell you, George. Let me tell you."

• 1:22George Kamel?

  Oh, you know what? God forbid someone be encouraging in my life.

• 1:26Rachel Cruze?

  Whitney, I'm on your side in life. I don't like her.

• 1:28George Kamel?

  Well, hey, stick around till the end. We're gonna give you our rating and reveal the cost per glass. Don't miss it.

• 1:34Rachel Cruze?

  Alright.

• 1:35George Kamel?

  So, we saw a relatable article recently that made us LOL, so we're here to tell you about it.

• 1:39Rachel Cruze?

  Oh my gosh, it was titled. I'm gonna, I'm gonna read it, cuz it is funny. "I can't afford a home, so why don't I just be gorgeous?" Meaning-

• 1:48George Kamel?

  They have a good point.

• 1:49Rachel Cruze?

  "I cannot afford this massive purchase, so I'm gonna just go spend it on things that make me feel good. And clothes, and purses, and beauty stuff, and like-

• 1:59George Kamel?

  And travel, and just live your life.

• 2:00Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, I'm gonna just do the things that I wanna do because that out there is out of reach. So, instead of trying to get that thing, I'm gonna just spend to be gorgeous."

• 2:09George Kamel?

  I think you can do both, and I'm living proof.

• 2:11Rachel Cruze?

  Okay.

• 2:13George Kamel?

  I'm kidding.

• 2:15Rachel Cruze?

  Mm hmm. You are not.

• 2:16George Kamel?

  It is very a classic millennial to disassociate from the harsh reality around us and instead take the path of least resistance to get a quick hit. That is, it's very much the zeitgeist in which we live.

• 2:28Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah. You think you see that a lot? You feel like you do?

• 2:31George Kamel?

  I think there's a level of cynicism that then leads to a almost carefree, whatever, man. Let's just live our life.

• 2:39Rachel Cruze?

  Well, there is that feeling of like, okay, I can't afford a, you know, 400, 300,000 dollar home that in the market, right? Like in Nashville or something like a nice place. It's like, so I might as well just go get a $2,000 bag, make myself feel better.

• 2:52George Kamel?

  It's like the stages of grief. They're at the acceptance phase.

• 2:55Rachel Cruze?

  Yes. And it's just like, this is how it is. And so I'm gonna do what I want and I'm gonna just live in the moment.

• 3:00George Kamel?

  Can I give you another example of this?

• 3:01Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 3:02George Kamel?

  Pursuing your third graduate degree to avoid entering the real world and facing all the student loans that you have acquired.

• 3:08Rachel Cruze?

  You hate that.

• 3:09George Kamel?

  Just anytime someone's like, I'm in grad school.

• 3:12Rachel Cruze?

  I think I'm gonna go get my masters. You're like, why?

• 3:15George Kamel?

  You shouldn't think you're gonna go get, you should do it because your job requires it. The thing that you are pursuing is like, you can't do this without that.

• 3:23Rachel Cruze?

  Why does that make us so angry?

• 3:25George Kamel?

  Because I'm just, you're just avoiding reality. It's delusion is what it is. It's an expensive version of delusion.

• 3:31Rachel Cruze?

  And, and feeling like this false hope of like, if I have this, everyone's gonna want me.

• 3:36George Kamel?

  Yes.

• 3:36Rachel Cruze?

  And you're like, everyone's still gonna probably feel the same way for the most part, right? Like, it's not like, oh, my gosh, I automatically get a $30,000 raise because I got a master's degree in communications or something.

• 3:50George Kamel?

  You might be overqualified.

• 3:51Rachel Cruze?

  No.

• 3:52George Kamel?

  Because you can't get that job without having a job in the first place. You need some experience and they can't get the entry level job with a master's degree a lot of the time.

• 4:00Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah. And do you think that they have a dollar amount in mind when they leave the master's program of what now they, what they now expect?

• 4:06George Kamel?

  Oh, for sure. I think anyone with a master's degree is like, I'll be making six figures. It's just like automatic. Like it doesn't work like that.

• 4:15Rachel Cruze?

  Mm hmm, mm hmm.

• 4:16George Kamel?

  So there's a lot of things that we do that are wild.

• 4:18Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 4:19George Kamel?

  But let's, let's focus on the task at hand here.

• 4:21Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, I know, the housing market. Now, we are not here to deny that this is a challenging thing, right? It is the market today. It is, it is challenging. We're going to dive into some numbers. We're going to talk about it. George is, I don't see like, I don't see you like this very often, but right before we started rolling the cameras, George was like, I just don't want us to come off like we, like we are so out of touch. I'm like, George, we're not, we're going to give all the prereqs that it is a challenging

• 4:48George Kamel?

  You're relatable. I'm the one who has to watch myself. I can be a little bit.

• 4:52Rachel Cruze?

  It's a challenging, well, I think as, I was supposed to call us content creators. Is that annoying?

• 4:57George Kamel?

  I think it's better than influencers.

• 4:59Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, I was saying content. There's a lot of people in this space and when they talk about houses, they're basically like, there's no hope for anyone. We only make $4 an hour and houses are $5 million. You're never going to get anywhere. Like, that's what it feels like when we watch other people and we're like, gosh.

• 5:14George Kamel?

  Or the other side is you should get 30 houses before you're 25 and just follow my strategy and buy my course. I'm like, okay, what?

• 5:22Rachel Cruze?

  That's so true.

• 5:22George Kamel?

  We can't afford one house. You want us to buy 20?

• 5:24Rachel Cruze?

  Never thought about that, George.

• 5:26George Kamel?

  It's exhausting.

• 5:27Rachel Cruze?

  They want you to get five VRBOs or they're like, you're never going to afford it.

• 5:31George Kamel?

  And they go, it's not that hard, guys.

• 5:32Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, so listen, we are not on either extreme. We're in the middle. We're here to, to give hopes to the situation because we see people doing it, right? And it's, does it take longer, different expectations? Absolutely, we're going to chat all about it, but just know, we're not going to leave you with the problem of that the housing market is hard and just be that friend that just sits there and just doesn't move. We're going to be moving, moving in the muck, you know?

• 5:55George Kamel?

  We're going to acknowledge the hard truths and we're also going to dispel some myths and squash the misinformation on the internet about real estate. Okay, so we both host The Ramsey Show and we hear from real callers every day. So we put together a list of the most common excuses, venting grievances, whatever you want to call it, dilemmas, that might be a better reason. They're not always an excuse.

• 6:14Rachel Cruze?

  And some of these are real.

• 6:15George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 6:15Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, we're not just like pushing it all to the side. Like, this is real, this is.

• 6:20George Kamel?

  Here's our list. You've been waiting for it. Drum roll, please. The first one we hear is a common one, the difficulty saving for a down payment.

• 6:28Rachel Cruze?

  Yes. Uh, yeah, because it is a.

• 6:33Rachel Cruze?

  Large sum of money that usually for most people, that's not just handed to you. Right. So you're having to work and save for it. We always say a 5% down payment for first time home buyers. 20% is traditionally where we've always gone to avoid PMI and all of that. But all that to say, you know, on a house, you know, that's anywhere from 10,000, depending on the type of house you're buying.

• 6:54George Kamel?

  I mean, for a $500,000 house, that's $100,000.

• 6:57Rachel Cruze?

  So yeah, so I mean, it could be 10,000, right? You go there all the way up to 100,000.

• 7:01George Kamel?

  Yes.

• 7:02Rachel Cruze?

  Easily.

• 7:03George Kamel?

  And the hard part is you're starting from zero. And you're just like, we're going to put a thousand bucks in this month. Woo.

• 7:09Rachel Cruze?

  Right.

• 7:09George Kamel?

  And you're just like, this is going to take me 15 years at this rate.

• 7:13Rachel Cruze?

  Well, it'll take me 100 months to save up for a down payment on this home.

• 7:16George Kamel?

  Which is why we tell people, you gotta become debt free and have the emergency fund to create as much margin as possible. So nothing throws you off track when it comes to this down payment.

• 7:25Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, because that is one thing when we see, when I see people, you know, doing the math about saving up a down payment, like how can people? Here's the average budget, but in the average budget, they have a student loan, a car loan, a credit card bill, right? All of this. So that is one reason we're like, hey, if you are debt free, that frees up almost $1,000. It's not going on payments that you could be using extra to save. So that is a big point of the baby steps of being debt free frees you up a lot.

• 7:50George Kamel?

  Yes. And so here's the priority list because we've got to put this where it fits.

• 7:55Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 7:56George Kamel?

  When it comes to buying a house, it's baby step 3B, saving for the down payment. So baby step one, $1,000 starter emergency fund. Baby step two, pay off all of your consumer debt with the debt snowball method. Then baby step three is the emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. Now we can begin saving up the down payment in a separate fund.

• 8:14Rachel Cruze?

  And we'll say out loud, like this could take you five years, right? I mean, like it can be a long game and a lot of people are like, oh, I don't want to rent for that long. But I'm telling you, that is way less stressful than people that call in and they have two car loans, they still have student loans, $15,000 in credit card debt, and then they want to go and buy a house. And you're like.

• 8:32George Kamel?

  Or they bought the house and they're like, hey, I don't know what to do. I can't afford to pay my bills.

• 8:37Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 8:37George Kamel?

  And we're like, well, what's your mortgage? It's $3,000 a month. What do you make a month? $5,000. Yeah.

• 8:44Rachel Cruze?

  So yeah, that's why the order is important. And if you really do want to tighten up on the budget every single month to save up for the down payment, EveryDollar is a great budgeting app to do that because you are able to look to see, okay, here's everything. And even if you still have debt when you do it, there's almost that dream of like, okay, if we didn't have this line item of the student loan and the car loan, here's what would be freed up to be able to move that to a savings line item for the down payment. So we'll put a link down below if you want to check out EveryDollar, but it's awesome.

• 9:12George Kamel?

  And the sinking fund feature is great because you can set your goal and then you're working towards that goal, putting money aside every month and it's tracking it along with you.

• 9:19Rachel Cruze?

  That's right.

• 9:19George Kamel?

  But this one kind of feels like how older people view retirement. They go, well, 62, time to retire. I'm like, well, do you have the money? And they're like, no, I didn't know I needed the money. I just thought I could, I'm 62, I get to retire.

• 9:31Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 9:31George Kamel?

  A lot of people see homeownership that way. They go, well, graduated college, or hey, I got married, or hey, had a kid, time to buy a house. There's no pre, there's nothing that says you have to buy a house by a certain age or at a certain life milestone. So this is your own journey and if you want a house, great. And also, if you're a single person, you don't need a house just because people are telling you you should buy a house. It's okay to rent and wait until your life changes too.

• 9:55Rachel Cruze?

  Hundred percent.

• 9:56George Kamel?

  Or if you have the money and you're single, go buy a house.

• 9:58Rachel Cruze?

  Yes. Man, the, the, have you seen this homeownership with women now has outpaced men?

• 10:05George Kamel?

  That makes sense because women want security.

• 10:08Rachel Cruze?

  They do.

• 10:09George Kamel?

  And guys couldn't give a rip. They're sports betting their life away.

• 10:13Rachel Cruze?

  Yes. What could be a house, they are freaking putting into sports betting.

• 10:18George Kamel?

  The idea of making a million dollars on a parlay is way more exciting.

• 10:22Rachel Cruze?

  So stupid.

• 10:23George Kamel?

  Than buying a house.

• 10:24Rachel Cruze?

  God, man, I know. I would say, if I was single out in the world and there was a guy, he's like, I'm a homeowner, I'd be like, wow, that's an attractive quality versus like, I have, I have apps where I...

• 10:39Rachel Cruze?

  Bet money on other grown men playing sports.

• 10:42George Kamel?

  She has a point.

• 10:43Rachel Cruze?

  Not so much.

• 10:44George Kamel?

  I do think it's an attractive quality because it just shows some level of stability.

• 10:48Rachel Cruze?

  It's like a town home.

• 10:49George Kamel?

  You have your life together.

• 10:50Rachel Cruze?

  Brad and he's like, yeah, I got a town home and you're like, wow. Good job, Brad. Well done.

• 10:56George Kamel?

  Brad pays an HOA fee. That's some grown up stuff.

• 10:59Rachel Cruze?

  That is, that is, that is security if I've ever seen something.

• 11:03George Kamel?

  There is something to it.

• 11:04Rachel Cruze?

  For sure.

• 11:05George Kamel?

  We should call this out. In our baby steps, we talk about investing in baby step four. So a lot of people go, wait, so am I saving for the down payment or am I investing? Well, you can really do whatever you want here. In baby step three B, you can invest anywhere from zero to 15% while you're saving up the down payment. So if the house is more urgent, you can pause investing. But if it's going to take you longer than two years, go ahead and start investing now because you don't want to pause all the compound growth for too long.

• 11:30Rachel Cruze?

  Yep, that's a great point. I love it. As a homeowner, I will say, one of my favorite places to be is on the couch, all cozied up. In my Cozy Earth joggers with the blankets, the whole thing. So if you're wanting some good quality products, whether it's bedding, towels, their towels are amazing.

• 11:49George Kamel?

  Yep.

• 11:49Rachel Cruze?

  Clothes, sheets, I mean, all of it, you guys.

• 11:52George Kamel?

  The socks, the clogs? I love the lake house clogs.

• 11:56Rachel Cruze?

  I will be in my muck boots.

• 11:57George Kamel?

  I didn't know it was a clog man.

• 11:58Rachel Cruze?

  Cozy Earth clogs, but they are, they're amazing.

• 12:01George Kamel?

  I will take those over at Crocs any day.

• 12:03Rachel Cruze?

  Amen.

• 12:04George Kamel?

  Move over Crocs. We got a master's degree over here and it was worth it.

• 12:07Rachel Cruze?

  We got that. Yeah, but Cozy Earth products are amazing, so make sure to check them out.

• 12:11George Kamel?

  Yep, and they have a 10 year warranty on their bedding, 100 night sleep trial. So, you know, they have an amazing return policy as well, but you probably won't need to return it because you're going to love it that much. So give the gift of everyday luxury, make the small moments in life extra comfortable. Head to cozylearth.com/smartmoney and use our code SMARTMONEY for up to 20% off. And if you get the post purchase survey, be sure to let Cozy Earth know you heard about them from Smart Money.

• 12:35Rachel Cruze?

  All right, next, I want to say complaints. What would you call it?

• 12:40George Kamel?

  I would, I would call it a grievance.

• 12:41Rachel Cruze?

  Grievance is home prices are quadruple what our parents paid in the 90s.

• 12:48George Kamel?

  There's some truth to this.

• 12:49Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, they are more expensive than they were 30 years ago. Just like, you know, the price of a house in the 90s was more expensive than it was in the 60s. Right? So housing prices are going to go up and you will see throughout history, times that it is inflated, that it does. And we saw that huge during COVID. I mean, I mean, some, I mean, at least our value of our home almost doubled. Like, it's pretty wild.

• 13:13George Kamel?

  Which is extra depressing if you weren't a homeowner and you were like, ooh, I'm so close. And then it's gone again.

• 13:19Rachel Cruze?

  And I will say some markets have settled back down to like, I would say probably more normal, but they didn't, it was not a bubble. It's not like that spike went and it just popped and everything went back down to what it was in 2019.

• 13:31George Kamel?

  It was definitely overinflated for a while and it cooled back down and prices went down. And they're still kind of cooling a little bit in certain markets. But the truth is, the data indicates median home sales price in 1995 was around 133 grand. But the median family income was about 34 grand. So let's compare that to the middle of 2025, median home sales price around $410,000. And as of 2024, median household income was nearly $84,000. So if you're doing the math at home, it is true that income has not kept up with the price of homes.

• 14:03Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, it's not. It is harder mathematically when you look at it.

• 14:06George Kamel?

  I broke down, this is from my book, Rachel. Can I tell you what?

• 14:11Rachel Cruze?

  Is it on the Amazon charts?

• 14:12George Kamel?

  I'm proud of myself. It is not on the Amazon charts unless you guys go buy a thousand copies right now. But here's what I wrote, and I think this was, I was trying to be fair. Ready for this?

• 14:21Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, I can't wait.

• 14:22George Kamel?

  As of July 2023, national median home price, 440 grand. Median household income in '22 was just under 71 grand. Here's the sad math on that. The median home price is now six times the median income. Here's the perspective. Between 1973 and 75, home prices were about two times the average income. So six time versus two times.

• 14:42Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 14:43George Kamel?

  That's a big difference.

• 14:44Rachel Cruze?

  That is a big difference.

• 14:45George Kamel?

  And it does make it more difficult to buy a home. And so I want to be clear, this isn't all just people with out of control spending, going into crippling debt and then whining they can't afford a home.

• 14:54Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, no.

• 14:54George Kamel?

  The numbers are startling.

• 14:55Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, 100%, which means on the solution side, they are going to be more extreme than what it was, right?

• 15:02George Kamel?

  It means you need to make more than the median income. And you need to buy a house that is maybe less than the median sales price.

• 15:07Rachel Cruze?

  What you would have, that's right.

• 15:08George Kamel?

  That's called compromise. And it's a hard reality to face.

• 15:11Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 15:11George Kamel?

  Because you go, I don't want that house, Rachel.

• 15:13Rachel Cruze?

  I know. And what's hard too is like, there's always going to be things throughout life that are out of our control, right? The, I mean, housing market, right? You're like, you can't control that. It is what it is. And so I think you have to decide, okay, what am I going to do? Am I going to just like sit in the corner, cry about it and do nothing and never become a homeowner? Or am I going to complain a little because it's kind of fun? So it's okay to complain a little bit. And then to say, okay, what am I going to do next? Like, what are the steps to actually have this dream become a reality, right? Which is the saving and that, you know, changing expectations and all of it. But yeah, it's going to take longer and it's going to be different than what you thought. But it's still, it is still possible. We talk to people every day.

• 15:55George Kamel?

  Yeah. And well, there are a lot of variables. There are a lot of levers you can pull. For example, you don't have to stay where you are. People move all the time. You might move to a lower cost of living area. You might go, hey, maybe I should get a town home to start. Or the condo versus the single family home that I really want in the neighborhood that I want. You might have to move 30 minutes or 40 minutes out from where you work.

• 16:16Rachel Cruze?

  Right.

• 16:16George Kamel?

  And that's not ideal, but that's what you got to do to get your foot in the door in today's real estate market.

• 16:21Rachel Cruze?

  And then the great thing is too, you know, the equity and stuff that you're going to build will happen. And then you may look up in five years, like, okay, great. Now we're going to move to where we want to be, closer to where we want to be, right?

• 16:31George Kamel?

  This house is not your forever home.

• 16:33Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, no. And I think that that's like a, yeah, that's a romanticized idea that I think even for our parents' generation, for some people I know their parents still live in the home. That they were in high school, you know?

• 16:44George Kamel?

  My parents just recently, just a few years ago, moved out of my childhood home.

• 16:48Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 16:49George Kamel?

  And so they were there for, you know, 30 plus years.

• 16:51Rachel Cruze?

  Yep, yep. Crazy, okay. Another one we hear all the time is, Maybe if I wait, I'll have, fill in the blanks. That could be a spouse, I could have a better interest rate, a better job, better options on Zillow. All of it.

• 17:05George Kamel?

  Mary rich.

• 17:06Rachel Cruze?

  I'll just wait and see what happens. And so, yeah, if you're waiting to save up and do those things, that's great. But if you're waiting for, again, a big life event to happen, we don't always control those. So you are kind of just, you're sitting back passively instead of being proactive. With one of the biggest purchases that you're going to make financially. Like, this is something you want to be very thoughtful of. But you also want to be the one that's in control of it and not just sitting back and waiting. Because, you know, who knows what interest rates are going to do? Who knows, you know, what your future looks like with a spouse? Who knows what kind of job you're going to have in four years? Like, nobody really knows. So control what you can today to get you where you want to be if you want to be a homeowner.

• 17:47George Kamel?

  And while no one is coming to save you, there are companies that exist to help you through every step of this financial journey. And Fairwinds Credit Union is one of them.

• 17:56Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, we love Fairwinds. When you have a banking institution on your side, it's amazing. Like, honestly, whether it's the app, talking to one of the customer service agents, like, whatever it is, knowing that they are for you in your financial journey is huge. They're not sitting there and pitching you debt options over and over and over and over and over and over, trying to get your money that way. No, they want to see you win too. That's why we've partnered with them. The fact that Ramsey Solutions has partnered with any level of bank, that's a big deal. So Fairwinds Credit Union, they're amazing. We love their team. We know the heart behind what they're doing and we are all for them. And we both use them.

• 18:32George Kamel?

  Oh, yeah. And they have a really great smart bundle that has a no-fee checking account, which I love. Any lack of fees. And a high-yield savings account, which is perfect for something like a down payment. So it's a short-term goal. You don't want to invest that money in case the market has volatility. And so their high-yield savings is a great option. So check it all out. Go to fairwins.org/Ramsey and open your smart bundle today.

• 18:55Rachel Cruze?

  All right, next is, interest rates have still not come down.

• 18:58George Kamel?

  Exclamation point.

• 18:59Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, I don't know if we'll ever see 2% to 3% again. Can I say that?

• 19:03George Kamel?

  I think if we do, something terrible has happened. I'm gonna be honest. I don't think we want the world where that exists.

• 19:09Rachel Cruze?

  Where that was. I mean, that's insane. And what's crazy is like, that became normal for our generation for a bit. But you look and you're like, never has it ever. Like, I think it was 18% or something in the 80s. Like, I mean, like crazy, coming out of the Carter administration. Like, they, those were nuts. I mean, even in the 90s, it was what, 10%?

• 19:30George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 19:30Rachel Cruze?

  So yeah, so just that, those were normal interest rates for mortgages. So the fact that we even settled on some normalcy of 2% to 3% is pretty wild.

• 19:39George Kamel?

  Well, and everyone like locked that in. And now the sad part is it's kind of golden handcuffs. They go, well, I can't get rid of my house. I can't sell. I can't upgrade. I can't move.

• 19:47Rachel Cruze?

  Because of my rate was so good.

• 19:49George Kamel?

  Why would I let go of my rate? And so that one, that kind of hurts my heart a little bit. I'm happy if you have a low rate. That's great. I want you to pay less interest. But it just kind of stinks in a sense, too. Because people thought, well, this is a good starter home, but it's not where we want to be long-term. And now it's where they are long-term.

• 20:04Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, because they've locked it in. Yep, 100%.

• 20:07George Kamel?

  As of this recording, interest rates are in the mid-fives, low sixes, depending on whether you have a 15-year or a 30-year mortgage. And again, it's a factor that is totally outside of your control. I don't think we're gonna get back to 2s or 3s. I do think this is just a guess on my part, that we'll end up somewhere hovering around the 5s.

• 20:25Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 20:25George Kamel?

  Maybe high 4s if we're lucky on the 15-year, but I think it's gonna take a while.

• 20:30Rachel Cruze?

  Well, and it's been a slow drip down over years, right, that we've seen. So if you have the money and you are able to get in, I would not let this be the barrier. I would not wait for interest rates to go any lower, because I think we're, I think it's about done. I mean, honestly, it may go a little bit lower.

• 20:47George Kamel?

  Well, and think about, as you wait, home prices could still be going up.

• 20:50Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 20:50George Kamel?

  And if rates do continue to go down, that could actually spike home prices back up. And so you don't want to just wait on interest rates, although I understand it factors into your mortgage payment heavily. And if you want to factor this reality into your home buying budget, you can check out our free mortgage calculator. It's a great tool to estimate what you can handle month to month. We'll drop a link in the description if you want to check that out.

• 21:09Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, George, so much can go wrong when you buy. It's just too much responsibility. I don't want to be a homeowner. I will just rent.

• 21:18George Kamel?

  I agree with this one. It is too much responsibility.

• 21:22Rachel Cruze?

  It's a lot more than what you bargain for. Can I say that?

• 21:25George Kamel?

  Yes.

• 21:26Rachel Cruze?

  There's a lot that happens and I'm even married with a husband that does a lot.

• 21:30George Kamel?

  He is very handy.

• 21:31Rachel Cruze?

  He's doing things that I don't even know are being done.

• 21:34George Kamel?

  Does he know how to hang drywall? I bet he does.

• 21:37Rachel Cruze?

  Uh, that's a good question. We haven't done any renovations or anything, so I'm not sure. But he'd figure it out, though.

• 21:42George Kamel?

  He would figure it out and he probably wouldn't even, he wouldn't even need a YouTube video.

• 21:45Rachel Cruze?

  Yep.

• 21:46George Kamel?

  He would just kind of like, ah, let me try this.

• 21:48Rachel Cruze?

  He fixed our dryer, our dryer wouldn't shut and so he did YouTube that and bought a little piece at Home Depot and fixed the dryer.

• 21:54George Kamel?

  Nice.

• 21:55Rachel Cruze?

  I know. But that's what I'm saying, like in general, though, there's just a lot of things. Leaks. Have you ever had water drip from a light fixture?

• 22:03George Kamel?

  Oh, yeah.

• 22:03Rachel Cruze?

  That's not fun.

• 22:04George Kamel?

  Oh, I had, it's called an ice dam. I had one of those happen in an old town home.

• 22:08Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, no.

• 22:08George Kamel?

  And just during this latest ice storm in Nashville, Whitney looked up at our ceiling and went, hey, that looks like it's

• 22:14Rachel Cruze?

  Water.

• 22:15George Kamel?

  Like sopping wet.

• 22:16Rachel Cruze?

  No.

• 22:16George Kamel?

  And so we're, we're looking into it. Don't know what it is yet.

• 22:19Rachel Cruze?

  Shoot, George.

• 22:20George Kamel?

  Maybe a leaky bathtub upstairs.

• 22:22Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 22:22George Kamel?

  And this is like a brand new, quality built house.

• 22:24Rachel Cruze?

  I know.

• 22:25George Kamel?

  That's the frustrating part is you think, well, if I get a newer house, it'll be great. Or if I get an older house, it's got good bones. Things are going to go wrong regardless and you've got to be prepared for that financially.

• 22:35Rachel Cruze?

  That's right. Yes. So there are things, yeah, definitely. Are we talking people out of home buying right now?

• 22:40George Kamel?

  Maybe. I just want to give them the full picture.

• 22:42Rachel Cruze?

  I know.

• 22:43George Kamel?

  It is wonderful and I would never want to go back to renting.

• 22:45Rachel Cruze?

  That's why I think the emergency fund and having no debt makes it more of a easier pill to swallow when those things do happen. Cause adding that on top of having no margin financially would be so stressful, so stressful. So having the margin, having the savings. So when things go wrong, you fix it. We always say it's like an inconvenience. It's not a crisis. And I think that's, I think that's true. But yeah, but there's a lot that goes into it.

• 23:10George Kamel?

  I do miss the days where I could just like text the apartment complex. I'm like, you guys need to fix this toilet. This is, you got a big problem on your hands over here.

• 23:17Rachel Cruze?

  Something's wrong.

• 23:18George Kamel?

  I miss those days. Now it's just texting myself. And me like Googling plumber near me.

• 23:24Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, I know.

• 23:25George Kamel?

  Or going in a Facebook group feeling like who's not gonna screw me over? Does anyone have a recommendation for a garage guy?

• 23:31Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 23:32George Kamel?

  I think I've dealt with it all at this point. Have you guys had like pretty much every?

• 23:35Rachel Cruze?

  I know, I was gonna say our, we had two, yes, major things. And one, I will give our builder credit. They came in and fixed it a few years later, so.

• 23:43George Kamel?

  Oh, nice.

• 23:44Rachel Cruze?

  Our fireplace.

• 23:45George Kamel?

  Oh, what happened there?

• 23:46Rachel Cruze?

  Not something you want messed up. Well, we're big on fires, so when we.

• 23:50George Kamel?

  What does that mean?

• 23:53Rachel Cruze?

  We love, Winston and I both love a real fire. So when we built our home.

• 23:57George Kamel?

  Like real wood?

• 23:58Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, we didn't want like gas, you know, gas logs. We were like, we're gonna do a real wood burning fireplace, but gas starter. But we're gonna have real wood. So because of that, um, I think one of the fireplaces where the smoke was, something wasn't connected correctly. And we went out, because we built a lot of fires, like we build fires a lot, like we.

• 24:19George Kamel?

  Building feels like a strong word for stacking a few pieces of wood.

• 24:22Rachel Cruze?

  You should see me. No, I'm like Annie Oakley. I call my son, no, she's not like a fire girl, but she built like an outdoorsy girl.

• 24:28George Kamel?

  What is she known for?

• 24:30Rachel Cruze?

  Riding horses, but I just feel like she'd build a great fire. I'm always like, I'm Annie Oakley tonight. I can, I can start a fire in our fireplace.

• 24:38George Kamel?

  Isn't it just like, like Baby Jenga? You just stack a few pieces of wood on top of each other?

• 24:41Rachel Cruze?

  George, and you gotta get the lighter in, you gotta move the soot from the last fire. I dragged the wood in, I do it all.

• 24:47George Kamel?

  You actually move the wood?

• 24:48Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, 100%. I'm telling you, without muck boots.

• 24:51George Kamel?

  I take it back.

• 24:52Rachel Cruze?

  Sometimes just with some ballet flats, you know? You never know.

• 24:55George Kamel?

  That is impressive.

• 24:56Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, but our fire, but it, something wasn't connected, which again, this is like the one thing you do not want to be wrong is your fireplace.

• 25:03George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 25:03Rachel Cruze?

  So with the smoke coming up and stuff, it like filled our attic, like smoke damage. I know, real bad. So that was not good, but our builder, I will give them such credit, like they came in and fixed it. Um, and then we had a water leak in our, we have a crawl space underneath. And yeah, Winston had to get fans and a sub bump.

• 25:22George Kamel?

  The old sub pump. That's quite the word.

• 25:24Rachel Cruze?

  I don't know if that's what it's called. It's the thing you stick in it, sucks in the water and spews it out the other side.

• 25:31George Kamel?

  I'll allow it.

• 25:31Rachel Cruze?

  What do you call that, George?

• 25:33George Kamel?

  Could be wrong, but I want to make you feel good.

• 25:34Rachel Cruze?

  What do you call that? So yeah, so we had like major leaking. Yeah.

• 25:38George Kamel?

  Wow.

• 25:38Rachel Cruze?

  Like that, consider those big. We've had some roof damage from like, and we've been in our house for seven years.

• 25:43George Kamel?

  Yeah, I feel like if you have to call someone, it's big enough.

• 25:46Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 25:47George Kamel?

  You know?

• 25:47Rachel Cruze?

  I don't know. So it's, yeah, it's a lot stressful.

• 25:50George Kamel?

  Some of mine were self inflicted, like things that I stupidly did that I was like, oh, someone's got to go fix that now.

• 25:56Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, no. What'd you do? Run into the garage door?

• 25:57George Kamel?

  Well, put a hole in some drywall, you know?

• 26:00Rachel Cruze?

  Why?

• 26:00George Kamel?

  Like the baby recliner, you know? Rocking a little too hard, I guess. I don't know what happened.

• 26:05Rachel Cruze?

  Just shaking that baby?

• 26:06George Kamel?

  There's a hole there now. Or moving furniture, you know, up the stairs and I just nick, nick the walls on my way up.

• 26:11Rachel Cruze?

  You didn't pivot like Ross?

• 26:13George Kamel?

  Did not pivot hard enough.

• 26:14Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 26:15George Kamel?

  I wasn't screaming and no one was helping me. So it was solo. There you go. It's not all fun and games. You've been on the internet, how long now? Late 90s?

• 26:25Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 26:25George Kamel?

  AIM with, you know, decades of being online, our information, it's seen some things.

• 26:31Rachel Cruze?

  It's out there. Well, what's crazy is your home address, past addresses are out there. Family names, phone numbers, email addresses, like so much of your information is out online. And having a team like Delete Me go in and remove your data from data broker websites is so big because that means less spam calls, less scammers can get hold of your information. And so we really push it because it is. There's something, a peace of mind of just knowing that someone is there removing your information off the internet.

• 27:01George Kamel?

  Yeah, we talk about, you know, insurance a lot and it's one of these things. It's not an insurance, but it's the defensive measure you can take to protect your digital privacy and it's well worth it for the price. And if you're a listener of the show, you get a sweet discount, 20% off their annual plans. If you use code SMARTMONEY or go to joindelete.me dot com slash SMARTMONEY to get the deal. Comes out to about nine bucks a month and I sleep better at night for it.

• 27:24Rachel Cruze?

  For sure. Yeah. So if you're online, if you're living in this world at all, Delete Me is a subscription that you need. And again, it's not expensive, but it is worth it.

• 27:32George Kamel?

  And if you're not living in this world, you don't need it. I don't know how you're even listening to the show.

• 27:38Rachel Cruze?

  I just.

• 27:39George Kamel?

  What world do you live in? I want to know.

• 27:42Rachel Cruze?

  You're living in this world.

• 27:43George Kamel?

  If you're an alien, you're an alien life form.

• 27:45Rachel Cruze?

  And that just means everybody.

• 27:47George Kamel?

  That's true.

• 27:48Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, what's our takeaways, George? What do you think?

• 27:51George Kamel?

  It's just a complicated topic and there's so much emotion behind it.

• 27:55Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 27:55George Kamel?

  And I think you just need to put your blinders on and go, okay, where am I at today? Where do I want to be? How do I bridge the gap?

• 28:02Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 28:03George Kamel?

  Those are the only questions you should be asking.

• 28:05Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, and some emotion and complaints and like, oh my gosh, this is the worst time ever to be where I'm at, to try to buy a home, whatever, do it all. That's correct. But then we need to move to a solution and I think that's where facts come in. Truly look at your salary, look at your area of where you're living, and start actually making a plan to move towards that. So maybe that's for you still getting out of debt or getting an emergency fund, whatever that looks like, but the movement needs to be forward, not just sitting and complaining about the current situation, because even though it sucks, let's do some movement though, right?

• 28:40George Kamel?

  Yes, and in your career, who knows? You could double your income in the next few years. You could get married and have a dual household income. You might move or maybe choose to move to get the place that you want. Maybe you buy something older or cheaper. All of these things are options. And so just focus on the options instead of all the things that you can't control and your life will be better. And the key is to get your foot in the door when you can, when you're financially ready, so that you can capture that equity and home appreciation. Because I promise you this, 10 years from now, you're going to be wishing the prices were what they were today.

• 29:11Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, that's right. It's going to continue to go up. And George, you have a home buying video course, right?

• 29:15George Kamel?

  That's right.

• 29:16Rachel Cruze?

  It's free though. You're not, you're not, you're not.

• 29:18George Kamel?

  You don't have to buy my TikTok real estate course.

• 29:19Rachel Cruze?

  You don't have to buy the course. No, George is so giving and selfless.

• 29:22George Kamel?

  It's my good deed.

• 29:23Rachel Cruze?

  That he just puts it out there. But you packaged it well and just in a sense of you're looking to buy a home. Yeah, check it out because it may help you. Yeah, make some good decisions.

• 29:31George Kamel?

  Yeah, we will drop a link to that free home buyer course down below in the description. Check it out, send it to a friend. Maybe they'll find it encouraging.

• 29:39Rachel Cruze?

  So great. All right, before we spill the tea on our guiltiest charge segments, let's get the details of what we drank today. I liked it.

• 29:47George Kamel?

  We drank the basil and Lillet spritz. Who finished first? I think you were a lot closer.

• 29:53Rachel Cruze?

  It was me. I liked it. It was very refreshing. I'll be honest, the first sip, I was like, I don't know.

• 29:58George Kamel?

  Caught me off guard.

• 29:59Rachel Cruze?

  But then it grew on me.

• 30:01George Kamel?

  What rating would you give this drink?

• 30:03Rachel Cruze?

  Hmm.

• 30:05Rachel Cruze?

  I'll go seven out of 10.

• 30:07George Kamel?

  All right.

• 30:07Rachel Cruze?

  I'm not gonna fail it, but I'm definitely not gonna be like, oh my gosh, I really wanna order this at a restaurant.

• 30:12George Kamel?

  Yeah. I think on a nice summer day in Italy, it would hit. I think what I didn't realize is that it's the wine that threw me off. And I know like a spritz.

• 30:22Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 30:22George Kamel?

  It's got the Lillet, which is like a French liqueur. Basil, as you can tell if you're watching.

• 30:29Rachel Cruze?

  I know, I think they muddled it too freshly, thank you.

• 30:31George Kamel?

  Sparkling wine and lime juice.

• 30:34Rachel Cruze?

  Okay.

• 30:35George Kamel?

  And the total comes out to $4.61. And I think it hits more like a white wine. So if you like like a carbonated white wine with a little bit of that floral basil, you will love this. But I wasn't expecting a white wine type beverage, so I can't dog it for that.

• 30:51Rachel Cruze?

  Yep.

• 30:51George Kamel?

  My honest rating is probably a four out of 10 on this one.

• 30:55Rachel Cruze?

  Wow.

• 30:57George Kamel?

  And I'm just, I don't know if it's, I'm not like a big white wine guy, you know?

• 31:01Rachel Cruze?

  I think that's fair.

• 31:02George Kamel?

  I fancy myself more of a...

• 31:03Rachel Cruze?

  You look like a four out of 10.

• 31:05George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 31:07George Kamel?

  Was that about me or the drink? Was that a diss?

• 31:10Rachel Cruze?

  No, the amount of the...

• 31:12George Kamel?

  If I told Rachel, yeah, you look like a four.

• 31:15Rachel Cruze?

  You, the amount you drank. The amount you drank, you could tell.

• 31:18George Kamel?

  We all knew what you meant.

• 31:19Rachel Cruze?

  Well, you could tell. We can tell.

• 31:21George Kamel?

  But yeah, I wouldn't order at a restaurant. I'm more of a, if I'm gonna go for a wine, I might go for a Pinot Noir. Maybe a Tempranillo, if I'm feeling fancy.

• 31:30Rachel Cruze?

  Well, now it's time for

• 31:31George Kamel?

  Guilty as charged.

• 31:33Rachel Cruze?

  And this is where we ask each other a guilty as charged question every week, and if we're guilty, we take a sip. All right, George, are you guilty of overpaying for anything as a homeowner?

• 31:43George Kamel?

  Well, that's a loaded question. I feel like I overpaid for everything as a homeowner.

• 31:48Rachel Cruze?

  I do, right? Oh, man.

• 31:50George Kamel?

  I mean, furniture comes to mind. I will say window coverings is the biggest scam out there right now.

• 31:56Rachel Cruze?

  Window treatments.

• 31:57George Kamel?

  Sure. Whatever they are.

• 31:59Rachel Cruze?

  They say treatments, not coverings.

• 32:00George Kamel?

  Blinds and curtains.

• 32:02Rachel Cruze?

  I will tell you, curtains

• 32:03George Kamel?

  And Roman shades.

• 32:05Rachel Cruze?

  Is the death of me. I'm not kidding, we paid more for window treatments, I think, than some of our furniture.

• 32:10George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 32:11Rachel Cruze?

  Like, I mean, it's so expensive. Like a rug, you can like get away, like find on a cheaper rug. Not window treatments, if you're doing it right.

• 32:19George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 32:19Rachel Cruze?

  So much. It is so much.

• 32:20George Kamel?

  And I know you can DIY and all of that, and there are cheaper options, but... My wife was really wanting like, hey, this is gonna be forever. Like, you're not gonna redo this, so do it right the first time.

• 32:31Rachel Cruze?

  Roman shades are beautiful. Uh, we have, we have a panel of them in our laundry room, because it looks out to our front.

• 32:39George Kamel?

  Oh, nice.

• 32:39Rachel Cruze?

  And Charles, just the other day, was up on the counter doing something, and he grabbed them, and I yelled, "Drop those shades, don't touch those shades."

• 32:47George Kamel?

  Right now, mister.

• 32:48Rachel Cruze?

  Because they are so mu- yeah, I'm like, "We don't touch them, we don't touch them."

• 32:51George Kamel?

  The Romans think very highly of themselves.

• 32:53Rachel Cruze?

  They Romans love-

• 32:53George Kamel?

  And we did, here's what we sprung for that hurt my heart, but it's, it's nice, is the motorized shades in our master bedroom.

• 33:00Rachel Cruze?

  We've never done that, how is it?

• 33:03George Kamel?

  It's pretty, the windows are really big in there, and I was like, "I'm not gonna wanna, you know, hoist this thing up like a sail."

• 33:08Rachel Cruze?

  I know.

• 33:09George Kamel?

  Whenever I wanna open it to get the light in.

• 33:10Rachel Cruze?

  Sailor.

• 33:11George Kamel?

  And so, we got those, and all in, like, we did it through, it was like a thing through Costco, and so the, the key is, you get a-

• 33:18Rachel Cruze?

  Of course it was, stop it.

• 33:20George Kamel?

  It came with a 15% cash back Costco gift card.

• 33:24Rachel Cruze?

  Stop it, George.

• 33:26George Kamel?

  So, the saving grace is that after spending, I, I don't know, like, college tuition on, on these window coverings and treatments, that I got a Costco gift card that I loaded into my app, and the next, like, five or six Costco trips were covered.

• 33:40Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, that's pretty fun.

• 33:42George Kamel?

  Which, it felt like I hacked the system.

• 33:44Rachel Cruze?

  That you won, yeah, you won, you beat it, because I got none of that, so that's, uh-

• 33:49George Kamel?

  You got diddly.

• 33:50Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 33:51George Kamel?

  How about you? Any thing you overpaid for?

• 33:53Rachel Cruze?

  I'm trying to think, I'll say Winston always goes over the top with our air filters.

• 33:58George Kamel?

  Oh, that's right.

• 33:59Rachel Cruze?

  He's like, really big on the Murph.

• 34:01George Kamel?

  It's not, it's Merv, N-E-R-V, not Murph, but I like that. He's a Murph 12 kinda guy. Yeah, Winston famously has the, like, hospital-grade filters.

• 34:12Rachel Cruze?

  Well, his dad owns a heating and air company, so I think they just, like, have their, like, they just know what they like, you know, with the air filters.

• 34:18George Kamel?

  You like what you like. I didn't know people could like an air filter.

• 34:20Rachel Cruze?

  I know, yes, he's very specific about it.

• 34:23George Kamel?

  How often does he change them, do you know? Do you see him change them?

• 34:25Rachel Cruze?

  That's my thing, is he does things that I don't know he does, so-

• 34:29George Kamel?

  Oh, like, while you were at work, he was like, "Hey, yeah."

• 34:31Rachel Cruze?

  Some people need a will.

• 34:32George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 34:33Rachel Cruze?

  I need, like, a list of, like, if something were to happen to you. What is not going to be done that I need to do?

• 34:39George Kamel?

  Yeah. Let's be honest, those air filters would never be changed.

• 34:42Rachel Cruze?

  No, God, no.

• 34:44George Kamel?

  You wouldn't.

• 34:45Rachel Cruze?

  Definitely not.

• 34:46George Kamel?

  You gotta climb up sometimes to change those things. You're throwing the ceiling.

• 34:48Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, no, yeah, I'm skipping that.

• 34:51George Kamel?

  I'm glad I have life insurance.

• 34:52Rachel Cruze?

  I love cutting corners in life on things that don't matter. Air filters would be on my list of that.

• 34:57George Kamel?

  You think that doesn't matter?

• 34:58Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, not really. We're all fine.

• 35:00George Kamel?

  It's disgusting.

• 35:01Rachel Cruze?

  Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. Well, if you have a guilty as charged question for us, make sure to DM us at Rachel Cruz and at George Kamel. I actually got one this afternoon, George. I was looking through my DMs.

• 35:10George Kamel?

  You sent it to us?

• 35:11Rachel Cruze?

  I did. I screenshotted it to you and Jenna and I was like, guys, got a new guilty as charged question. So genuinely, we really appreciate it. So send it our way and make sure to subscribe because we always love having you here and we don't want you to forget about an episode. But if you loved this episode, you're going to also love how to financially survive every season of life. We'll link it for you and we'll see you next Thursday on an all new episode of Smart Money Happy Hour.