Keep Evolving: Julie Piatt Returns

Has it really been a full year since Julie appeared on the podcast? Well that's just not right. So today marks the latest installment in my ongoing series of ponderous mind melds with my wife and in-house spiritual guru, the wise and ethereal Julie Piatt, aka SriMati. Longtime listeners are well acquainted with my better half. For those newer to the show, Julie is many things — the bestselling author of three vegan cookbooks. An accomplished yogi, healer, musician, and mom to four children. The host of the For The Life of Me podcast. And the master of Water Tiger, her online spiritual community where she muses on all matters metaphysical. Julie has a lot to say. And this time it's personal. This conversation opens with a wide-ranging discussion wherein we take stock of our marriage. Discuss the next evolution of our two-decade relationship. And share our collective experiences to explore relationship fulfillment in general. We talk about low moments – my relapse (almost 8 years ago), grief, rebirth, and divorce. We discuss creativity and taking responsibility for our personal connections. We recap our recent retreat in Italy. And we conclude by diving into Julie’s current obsessions — her For The Life of Me podcast and quickly growing online spiritual community, Water Tiger. And we conclude with a very big announcement. Let me set the stage. As many of you know, Julie spent years devoted to mastering the art of plant-based cheese. That journey birthed This Cheese Is Nuts, her groundbreaking cookbook primer on all things non-dairy. In the years since that book's publication, she continued to iterate on her recipes, taking her creations next level. The privileged few who have tested her achievements know very well just how insanely delicious it is. People literally freak out. Chances are you've even heard a few on mic raves from many a former podcast guest — Julie's favorite taste testers. The response has been so unanimously positive, she spent the last year assembling the pieces to create her very own direct-to-consumer artisanal plant-based cheese line. It's called SriMu. It's launching in mid-November 2019. And she is proud to announce that she is currently taking pre-orders. Unlike anything else in the current marketplace, SriMu artisanal “not cheese” is the next evolution of non-dairy delights. Vegan, paleo, dairy-free, gluten-free and made with mostly organic ingredients, it's a super-charged, divine offering beautifully packaged in a subscription box. When you sign up, you’ll get three different tiers of extraordinary, next-level plant-based cheese delivered directly to your home on a monthly basis. I am super proud of Julie's manifestation. It's going to be huge. I know you're going to love it. And I wanted my podcast tribe to have the very first opportunity to try what I've been (semi-secretly) enjoying for the last year. To learn more and place your order, visit SriMu.com. Now, on to the podcast. The visually inclined can watch it all go down on YouTube. Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

  Eating well rarely falls apart because of one big failure. It's the daily question that wears you down, like, what am I actually gonna make tonight? What's in the fridge? And it's exactly why we built the Plant Power Meal Planner. It's a personalized, plant-based meal planning program that matches you with recipes based on your taste, your allergies, your cooking skills, and how much time you actually have. You build, through this program, a balanced, nutrient-dense plan for your entire household in a few minutes. Then it generates a grocery list for you with one click that plugs right into our delivery partners. All the recipes in the program are built by dietitians with culinary training. Plus, you get your own food coach to help you problem-solve along the way.

• 0:44Rich Roll?

  It's kind of an amazing thing. For listeners of the show, all you special people, we're offering an exclusive $20 off an annual subscription right now. To get it, go to meals.richroll.com, take your quick personalization quiz, and enter promo code RICHROLL20 at checkout.

• 1:05Julie Piatt?

  I think when you are truly meeting in all aspects of a relationship, when you're taking responsibility to create your own fulfillment within your own self, there really is no prince, princess, fairy tale paradigm. And in fact, when you play in that paradigm, it's actually a dishonoring of the divine being, because as life forms, each of us have enough energy within ourselves to fulfill our divine mission, or our blueprint, or our soul mission, or the reason that we're in this life. Every solution is resolved within your own being. All the power for your experience is within your own being. It's not about the other person. So it's not what the other person is doing, it's who are you in the face of what is going

• 1:50Julie Piatt?

  on? And if you feel like it is your job or your mission to fix another person, or fulfill that in another person, and that gives you a sense of pride or importance, you're in fact hindering that individual from truly becoming themselves.

• 2:08Rich Roll?

  That's Julie Piatt. Let's do the show.

• 2:25Rich Roll?

  Hey people, how you doing? What's going on? Rich Roll here. I am your host. This is my podcast. Welcome or welcome back. So it's been a while, but today marks yet another long awaited, hotly anticipated installment in my ongoing series of instructive, healing mind melds with perhaps my greatest teacher, my personal live-in spiritual guru, my wife, the mother of my children, the deep, the ethereal, the profound, the eminently wise Julie Piatt joins the podcast today, aka Sri Mati. So longtime listeners are of course well acquainted with Julie. She is a yogi, a healer, an entrepreneur, an author, a musician. She has appeared on

• 3:07Rich Roll?

  the show many, many times, but not since August of 2018. Wow, I was surprised to discover that. So glad to have her back on. She's got a lot to say, including a big announcement, and this time it's personal.

• 3:29Rich Roll?

  Okay, Julie, my wife. So off the top, I know there are a lot of Sri Mati fans out there. Hi, how you guys doing? Fans of her amazing cookbooks, The Plant Power Way, The Plant Power Way Italia, This Cheese Is Nuts, plus perhaps a select few of you who have had the privilege of testing out her extraordinary plant-based cheeses in person. If you have, then you know how just insane it is. Better by miles than anything in the current market, I would say. Maybe I'm biased, but I think it's a fact. And on that note, I have not met a single person who has tried it that hasn't completely freaked out at how amazing it is, including,

• 4:11Rich Roll?

  as you very well may have heard on mic, raves from many of my past podcast guests, Julie's favorite taste testers. Well, unanimously positive response has finally motivated Julie to launch her own commercially available, direct-to-consumer artisanal plant-based cheese line. It's called Sri Mu, S-R-I-M-U, Sri Mu. It's launching soon. Exact date to be announced shortly. And she's currently taking orders. So basically, it's a monthly subscription box model. When you sign up, you'll get three different tiers of delicious, extraordinary, next level, plant-based cheese. Julie delves into more details on this in the podcast,

• 4:55Rich Roll?

  but to learn more and to get in first on the front edge of this, go to srimu.com. That's S R I M U dot com and order yours today. Julie's going to be launching with an exclusive offering and we just wanted to make it available to the Pod Tribe first. This stuff is supercharged. It overdelivers. You're going to fall in love with it. I promise you. So again, it's srimu.com. Do life, not cheese. That's the phrase, the tagline. Do, D O, standing for devotional offerings. Beyond the cheese, this is a pretty wide-ranging discussion wherein we take stock of our marriage, the next evolution of our relationship,

• 5:38Rich Roll?

  as a launchpad to explore relationship fulfillment in general. We talk about some of our low moments, like my relapse almost eight years ago. We talk about grief, rebirth, divorce. We talk about taking responsibility for our various relationships. We also recap Plant Power Italia 2019, our recent retreat in Italy, and we dive into Julie's big projects. Shrimu, of course, her podcast, Divine Throughline, and her quickly growing Water Tiger online spiritual community. So here we go. This is me and my wife, Julie Piatt.

• 6:20Rich Roll?

  Julie Piatt.

• 6:22Julie Piatt?

  Rich Roll.

• 6:22Rich Roll?

  Shrimati.

• 6:23Julie Piatt?

  It's me.

• 6:24Rich Roll?

  Welcome to the podcast.

• 6:25Julie Piatt?

  I'm back. It's been a long time.

• 6:26Rich Roll?

  I think this is the longest that we've gone.

• 6:29Julie Piatt?

  I know.

• 6:29Rich Roll?

  Since I started the show.

• 6:30Julie Piatt?

  What happened?

• 6:31Rich Roll?

  Since you've been on.

• 6:31Julie Piatt?

  What's been going on with you?

• 6:33Rich Roll?

  I don't know.

• 6:33Julie Piatt?

  What's behind that?

• 6:34Rich Roll?

  I just got caught up in all the fancy people that I get to have on.

• 6:37Julie Piatt?

  You forgot who was living in your, in your life.

• 6:40Rich Roll?

  You're quietly in the background waving your hand. Hi, I'm still here.

• 6:43Julie Piatt?

  That's okay. I appreciate it. I think I was on in August last.

• 6:47Rich Roll?

  Was it August?

• 6:48Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, it's been almost a full year.

• 6:49Rich Roll?

  So I don't know when this is gonna air, but we're in mid-July right now.

• 6:53Julie Piatt?

  Yeah.

• 6:55Rich Roll?

  In the wake of celebrating, celebrating with quotation marks around it, our 16th anniversary.

• 7:01Julie Piatt?

  We can't wait to share our anniversary celebration with all of you.

• 7:05Rich Roll?

  Yeah. How are you feeling about the state of our marriage?

• 7:09Julie Piatt?

  I'm feeling very good about the state of our marriage, actually. Even though I haven't been on in a year.

• 7:14Rich Roll?

  It's on the record.

• 7:15Julie Piatt?

  Even though that there was no really anniversary celebration, even in spite of those things. And I feel really good about our marriage, actually.

• 7:23Rich Roll?

  I had done four podcast interviews, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday was our anniversary. And I was so toasted.

• 7:32Julie Piatt?

  There was no Shakti for Shrimati.

• 7:34Rich Roll?

  It was nothing.

• 7:35Julie Piatt?

  He gave it all to you guys.

• 7:37Rich Roll?

  I gave it to other people. I had nothing left for you. I'm the worst when it comes to holidays.

• 7:43Julie Piatt?

  You're not really the worst.

• 7:44Rich Roll?

  Well, I have a resistance to dates on the calendar that, you know, we're sort of socially contracted to celebrate. There's something inside of me that rebels against that and doesn't wanna, you know, basically play the game.

• 8:01Julie Piatt?

  Are you saying that you're resentful that it was our anniversary?

• 8:04Rich Roll?

  No, I'm not saying that. I'm more resentful that somebody else decides when we're supposed to celebrate things.

• 8:12Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, you're right.

• 8:14Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 8:14Julie Piatt?

  It's horrible.

• 8:15Rich Roll?

  Well, we could celebrate right now.

• 8:17Julie Piatt?

  Okay.

• 8:17Rich Roll?

  So there was no diamond ring or anything like that.

• 8:20Julie Piatt?

  I still don't have a diamond ring. We don't even wear, we don't even wear wedding rings, actually.

• 8:24Rich Roll?

  Well, I'm glad that you're feeling good about our marriage. I am. I feel like we're, well, a couple of things. I mean, first, we're sort of entering into a new phase of our relationship as two people that have been together for a very long time. And, uh, which is really cool and interesting and, um...

• 8:46Rich Roll?

  I don't know. Exciting, I guess. That's the first thing. The second thing I forgot.

• 8:51Julie Piatt?

  Okay, well, that's good. It's good you came prepared.

• 8:53Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, the typical thing happened before we sat down yesterday. I'm like, okay, I want you to put some thought into what we're going to talk about today. And you just shrugged me off. So the onus is on you.

• 9:04Julie Piatt?

  Well, we've established that I function better in the moment, and that's when I can truly be of service.

• 9:09Rich Roll?

  Here's the moment. The moment is right now. So, so dance.

• 9:13Julie Piatt?

  So dance. But you have to tell me where you want to go. This is your show.

• 9:17Rich Roll?

  It's on you.

• 9:18Julie Piatt?

  Oh, no.

• 9:19Rich Roll?

  Yeah. This is what you wanted. This is what you asked for. A spontaneous.

• 9:24Julie Piatt?

  You were saying that you were happy about the state of our marriage, and you said it was good because we were at a new moment. And then you said there was a second thing.

• 9:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I just remember what the second thing is.

• 9:34Julie Piatt?

  Then leading you.

• 9:36Rich Roll?

  As two people that have been together for 20 years, 21 years at this point, right?

• 9:41Julie Piatt?

  I'm not sure.

• 9:42Rich Roll?

  We started, we got together in 1999.

• 9:46Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, because we spent the millennium together.

• 9:49Rich Roll?

  Right. That I remember.

• 9:51Julie Piatt?

  You broke your wrist. I remember.

• 9:53Rich Roll?

  Snowboarding. I feel like we've earned the right to not be relationship experts. I can't, I'm averse to that term, but we have experience.

• 10:06Julie Piatt?

  We do.

• 10:07Rich Roll?

  And a little bit of wisdom.

• 10:09Julie Piatt?

  We do.

• 10:09Rich Roll?

  That we can share.

• 10:10Julie Piatt?

  We have true life experience.

• 10:11Rich Roll?

  This is your diving board, and you're launching off.

• 10:13Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, well, I do actually consider myself an expert in relationship, and that's because you are my third foray into the marriage.

• 10:22Rich Roll?

  You always like to bring that up.

• 10:24Julie Piatt?

  I like to just be upfront with it. You don't?

• 10:26Rich Roll?

  No.

• 10:27Julie Piatt?

  Why?

• 10:27Rich Roll?

  Let's focus on us.

• 10:29Julie Piatt?

  Okay, let's focus on us.

• 10:30Rich Roll?

  You can contextualize it that way.

• 10:31Julie Piatt?

  It does make me a relationship expert because I have that history. So I have these, I had, you know, a very hellish, abusive marriage. I had a very romantic fairy tale marriage. And now I have the marriage you and I have together.

• 10:46Rich Roll?

  I got to burst the fairy tale.

• 10:48Julie Piatt?

  You did, kind of. But it's a, that's.

• 10:50Rich Roll?

  How I feel about that.

• 10:51Julie Piatt?

  You should feel good about it because it's a really, it's a really real thing, and it's an, it's an amazing thing when you can break through that. Not that we don't love romance, or not that we don't enjoy those kind of interactions. But I think when you are truly meeting in all aspects of a relationship, when you're taking responsibility to create your own fulfillment within your own self, there really is no prince, princess, fairy tale paradigm. And in fact, when you play in that paradigm, it's actually a dishonoring of the divine being. Because as life forms, each of us have enough energy within ourselves

• 11:34Julie Piatt?

  to fulfill our divine mission, or our blueprint, or our soul mission, or the reason that we're in this life.

• 11:40Rich Roll?

  Right, so in other words, if you're overly invested in another human being to take care of certain things for you, then you're basically hamstringing or handicapping yourself. Because that power and resilience and energy and self-sufficiency lives within you.

• 12:00Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, definitely. And if you feel like it is your job or your mission to fix another person, or fulfill that in another person, and that gives you a sense of pride or importance, you're in fact hindering that individual from truly becoming themselves.

• 12:19Rich Roll?

  Uh huh, so how am I doing in that regard?

• 12:22Julie Piatt?

  You're doing great, and you always have from the very beginning.

• 12:24Rich Roll?

  I let you be you.

• 12:27Julie Piatt?

  Well, you let me be me. And you also, I think because of your recovery, and I really credit the fact that you are in a 12-step program and that you have the recovery tools in your experience, coupled with my spiritual perspective, we have a pretty powerful toolbox to take out and dive into when we get into trouble, or when we step into something that is very, very intense. And when I first met you, one of the most amazing things you ever said to me was, "I see you're in pain, and I feel for you. I'm compassionate towards you, but I have nothing to do with that pain, and I don't know how to help you." Like, I don't have the answers.

• 13:12Julie Piatt?

  And you were one of the first male relationships in my life that said to me, "I don't have the answers for you." And that was like a breath of fresh air to me. Because when you have somebody who claims they always have the answers for you, or they know better, or they're trying to... Sort of guide or rule your life, or assess your life, or analyze your life. Inherent in those actions is a distrust and a non-belief in you, in me. And it feels like an oppression, or like a suppression, or a pressing down,

• 13:53Julie Piatt?

  a keeping down of the energy of what wanted to come through me as a woman, as, you know, as my own life form, as my own divine life form, that has all the energy she needs to fulfill herself within herself.

• 14:07Rich Roll?

  Well, the conventional male-female relationship paradigm is one in which the man comes into a conflict or a predicament with this overwhelming impulse to just fix it and make it right, or say, "This is what you need to do. Like, let's resolve this." And the conventional female perspective is, "I don't wanna, I don't want you to fix it. I don't need you to fix it. I just wanna be heard and acknowledged." Is that fair?

• 14:39Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, it could be. I mean, I think it, you know, I think some women do want men to fix it. And I think they're still living in that paradigm. And, you know, that was a big cornerstone of how we went through nine years financial collapse and transforming into living our dreams. And the fact that I wasn't yelling at you to go get a job, or I wasn't putting the onus on you to fix all the financial issues. And so I felt at that time, like, I believe in living what is in the heart, in finding what is in the heart and serving the heart. The heart is the divine mind, not the brain. So if I wanted that for myself, which I do, and I want that for my children,

• 15:21Julie Piatt?

  I had to want that for my husband, even though times were hard. I couldn't say, "Well, I'm finding my divine voice, and you go clock in at the law firm and make everything fine." So somehow I knew, because I had this extreme faith, I had this knowing and this awareness, that the way through these challenges was to really find out What was the truth of each of our hearts and to do everything that we could to fulfill that? And that some way, by some grace, by some miracle, or some divine intervention, that somehow our lives would be ordered in a way that it would support that expression.

• 16:02Rich Roll?

  Was there ever a moment where you thought it was too much and you were like, this is not working and I'm ready to give up?

• 16:11Julie Piatt?

  There was one moment, and it was when we had almost come through, we were coming through, and it was when you DNF'd at Ultraman and you relapsed. And in the wake of that, after having held space for you for so many years, I mean, through such adversity and such friction and tension, it was hard for me to imagine that you would make that choice, because I'm not an addict and I wasn't in that frame. But at that moment, I had a moment where I was like, have I misjudged who Rich is? Have I misjudged him because we're just arriving out of this battle and we're actually being

• 16:55Julie Piatt?

  realized? And this is the choice he made in that moment?

• 16:59Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that was a low moment. That was a rough, that was a rough experience to navigate through. I mean, the level of like shame and sense of disappointment that I had, that I'd let myself down and you down and this whole plan down was very difficult. But in retrospect now, having, you know, many years passed since then, like, how do you look back on that experience?

• 17:26Julie Piatt?

  It was, you know, it was still a hard moment. I mean, it was a, it was a moment of, you know, are you fucking kidding me? Quite frankly, you know? It was... You know, super difficult. I mean, again, I've said it before, I was grateful for your community in AA and all the guys that you have around you. So many beautiful men that are in your life as a part of that program. And, you know, they were right there. And, you know, Tyler was there. And, you know, you got, you know, you got righted like right away. Like, it wasn't, it wasn't a long, it wasn't a long spell in that. But I do remember arriving back from Hawaii, and I had supported you in your expression through

• 18:09Julie Piatt?

  all of these years. And I was, I gave birth to Jai and was really sort of in this seclusion at home with the kids and doing ceremony and, and spiritual practices and ritual and holding this vision for us. And then started creating the food and the recipes. And I had written two albums and, and become musician along with Tyler and Trapper, our oldest sons. And so I was finally at the moment where I was going to get to record my album. And it had been years, it was seven years of, of working, workshopping these songs. And so, right after that moment, when we arrived back home, that was my turn. That

• 18:49Julie Piatt?

  was when Brad was coming here with his recording gear. We were setting up a studio in the house. I had him booked for 10 days to two weeks, and we were recording my first album. So part of me, what I did is, I took my anger and put it to the side, because I wasn't going to let that ruin my experience of music. So I sort of just was like, okay, I don't like this, and this has really upset me. And Rich is fine now, and he's working it out. And so I'm going to put this to the side for the moment, and I'm going to focus on this creative expression. And then what happened is, the boy's dad died suddenly and tragically on day three of my recording session.

• 19:35Julie Piatt?

  So what I endured at the end of that year, 2011, was pretty staggering. I mean, a pretty, pretty intense, sort of energetic experience that I had to traverse through after having held that vision for us for so long. And even though I hadn't been with the boys' dad for 14 years, he was very close in their lives and very close to me, and I had to process that grief through myself. So it was still many, many months and many, many things before my music came to fruition. And by that time, I guess we had just worked it all out.

• 20:17Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 20:17Julie Piatt?

  Right?

• 20:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah. But I suspect it made you a stronger person to have to endure all of that and navigate the difficulties of, the complex difficulties of loss, anger, creative output, parenting, and just the general responsibilities of having to, you know, get through the day. I mean, even though, yes, we were emerging from our financial difficulties, we were by no means out of the woods at that point. I mean, there was still quite a ways to go, and we would dip deeper before we kind of really emerged out of it.

• 20:53Julie Piatt?

  It's true. It's true. I mean, what I would say from my perspective of that, I would say that it was a full experience of life that I, that I experienced, and that experience was full of heartbreak, loss, tragedy, triumph, creative connection. And the weirdest thing was during the days following the death of the boys' father, Lou, I felt a simultaneous experience of grief and birth.

• 21:28Julie Piatt?

  And it's not something that I've ever spoken about before. I probably never told you about this before, but it was a very profound dichotomy of this juxtaposition of two extremes that are maybe the same thing. And so it was an extremely profound, potent, really deep experience. His exit from this world was one of the most profound experiences that I've had. And it's because there were all these synchronicities and signs that were in the music, in people that I met, just coincidences and in things

• 22:10Julie Piatt?

  that happened during that time. And I really did feel the presence of divinity in that space. I felt that it was, it was meant, I remember when you were racing in Ultraman, Lou was texting me and he was checking you, he was following the race. And that was kind of a first because it's not like we were just, you know, we were really good getting divorced and really took care of the children, but it's not like we were hanging out all the time.

• 22:36Rich Roll?

  No, I mean Lou wasn't, Lou was great, but he wasn't like my buddy.

• 22:41Julie Piatt?

  No, we weren't friends, but he was, you know, kind and respectful and we, you know, we all handled it like grownups, you know, but it's not like we were taking vacations together or something like that. So he was following your race in those last days.

• 22:53Rich Roll?

  I didn't know that.

• 22:54Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, he was texting me and really excited and, and all of that. And so I think that, that it was just, I forgot my train of thought, what I was just saying, but anyway, it was a, it was a-

• 23:07Rich Roll?

  The divinity in the experience.

• 23:08Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, it was very, very divine. I mean, there were other things that happened like Lou's first cousin, Mina, I was very close with her when I was married to him and I hadn't talked to her in like, we hadn't been together for 14 years. I hadn't talked to her for 14 years. So when he passed, we were in contact and she couldn't attend the memorial service that I facilitated, that I officiated here in our home. You know, I told the boys, now it's a healing project. That's basically what it is. It's a healing mission. And we had everyone come in, you know, from his life. Past business associates, past lovers, wives, girlfriends, you know, everyone was here.

• 23:49Julie Piatt?

  All of his lovely cousins, the Piatt family, you know, an amazing group of individuals. And I officiated that, that process for all of us. And it was really, really beautiful. Mina couldn't come because she had been given, she had bought a trip for her girlfriend and they were going to Kauai and everything had already been booked and bought and everything else. So at that time, Saul Ray, who's a, you know, well-known renowned yoga teacher that, you know, I grew up in yoga with, and he's been a great ally and a great friend to me and to us. He, you know, emailed or texted me and he was like, "Shrimati, like, could you come and cook for my retreat?"

• 24:30Julie Piatt?

  And he said, he knows that I have a special connection to Secret Beach on Kauai. He said, "It's near Secret Beach. I don't know if I'm asking too much, but I think it would be good and I could pay you. We needed money." So I asked the boys and they said, "Go ahead and go, Mom." So I went there and I remember cooking completely in grief and Saul would say, "What's on the menu?" And I would say, "I have no idea, but something will be there." And I literally couldn't even make a menu list because I was in such grief. So Mina contacts me, she's on Kauai at the same time. I haven't seen her in 14 years. And I said, "I'm, I'm, I'm on the island. Meet me at the Hindu temple at morning puja."

• 25:12Julie Piatt?

  So I'm sitting in the temple and she slides up right next to me and we sit together for puja. And we took those flowers from the offering from the priest that day and we went down to Secret Beach. And we walked and we reminisced about Lu and we offered these flowers into the ocean. So there were many, many profound things that happened during this time, also connected to my music. Tyler and I were recording. "In the Sun," which is a song that I wrote about you. And I wrote about the pressure of life and the financial constriction and how hard it is in this world, especially for men, to earn enough and be enough and succeed.

• 25:57Julie Piatt?

  And the chorus of this song was "Fly Daddy Fly, Fly Daddy Fly." And I had written that chorus on a previous return from the island of Kauai, from doing spiritual practice. And I had asked for the chorus, and that's what was given. So, years later, after the boys and I workshopped this song over seven years in many different forms, Tyler and I even had sung it on the big island during that trip. When you DNF'd, we walked up to the local music store, and we played it and sang it in the store. And when we finished, we looked up, and the shop owner had broken down, sobbing in tears.

• 26:40Julie Piatt?

  And she said, "I'm so sorry, like, you just, it touched me, it touched me." We walked out, and Tyler looked at me, and he was like, "Okay, that was good." Like, as a musician, if you can make somebody cry with your song, like, that's a good sign. So here we were, the boys had said, "You know, Mom, we know you wrote that song about rich, but we also think it's about Lou." And it is, it's about every man. And so, we would find out later that when Lou called 911, he had a heart attack on a kayak. When he called 911, Tyler and I were actually recording that exact song. So the actual recording on the album, "Mother of Mine," is the exact track at the moment

• 27:21Julie Piatt?

  that Lou left his body, that he left this world and moved to another realm. And what was shown to me during that time, when I met Lou, I was in an abusive marriage, and I was a battered woman. I was on the out of it, I was coming out of it, but that's the truth, that's the ugly truth. And Lou rescued me. He truly was a rescuer, that was his archetype. And that, and he was a fix-it man. He was like, "I'm gonna fix your life for you," you know? And he really did. My creative trajectory when I was married to him was like a rocket. I mean, I became an artist, a fashion designer, started my own collection. This was all from being in a relationship where I couldn't even take a step without

• 28:06Julie Piatt?

  second-guessing myself. And what I was shown through this experience, what I felt is that Lou had rescued me in this world, and I had rescued him into the other world. Because I knew the spiritual essence and the practices and the rituals and the awareness to actually get him out of his body and get him into the other realm. And the boys were sequestered here safely at our sacred home at Jai House. We were recording music, like it was, it just felt like it was all sort of divinely planned. And, you know, I haven't spoken about it very much because it's a very, very private

• 28:51Julie Piatt?

  and very dear thing, but it was a profound experience.

• 28:55Rich Roll?

  That's beautifully put. I remember I was out running on the trails when my phone rang. You said, "You have to come home right now," and you told me what had happened.

• 29:06Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, and the, I'm gonna try to say it without crying, but to, let's see. It was a horrifying experience to wake your children up to tell them that story, you know? And I remember we had a ganesh, and I told Mathis ahead of time, and Mathis was much younger, like she was-

• 29:44Rich Roll?

  Yeah, five, six.

• 29:45Julie Piatt?

  Five or six, right? Something like that?

• 29:47Rich Roll?

  Just turned six, I think.

• 29:48Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, so she was like, "Mom, why are you crying? Why are you crying?" And I told her, I said, "I have to wake the boys up, and I have to tell them that their dad is gone." And I remember, I woke them up, and we gathered around the ganesh, and I wrapped them in the ponchos that we got on our retreats in Mexico. And, you know, I told them, and hours afterwards, I went upstairs to take a bath, and I remember Mathis coming in, little baby, and she said to me, "Mama," she said, "you did the very best you could. You did such a good job. You did the very best that you could."

• 30:29Julie Piatt?

  And that was just a, you know, a beautiful, a beautiful moment of this experience with our children and how, how amazing they are and how, how powerful they are and how wise they are and what they offer us, you know, in those moments. So it was deep.

• 30:50Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, I remember that moment pretty vividly and I couldn't help but think, this is that moment where innocence is now lost.

• 31:01Julie Piatt?

  Yeah.

• 31:02Rich Roll?

  And the harsh reality of the world, you know, dawns upon them.

• 31:06Julie Piatt?

  Yeah.

• 31:07Rich Roll?

  So they were, how old were they?

• 31:08Julie Piatt?

  I think they were 14 and 15, something like that. Yeah. And the other thing is, is, you know, anybody that's met Tyler and Trapper, they're, they have all the best aspects of their dad. I mean, they're extraordinary individuals and as young men, who they are, I mean, any child, but we just really felt like they didn't deserve this. Like this wasn't, you know, this wasn't a fate that seemed akin to them. And I mean, you say that.

• 31:39Rich Roll?

  And it also, it also came on the heels of all the hardship that, you know, they had to endure because of the struggles that we were having. And so it was like a sucker punch.

• 31:49Julie Piatt?

  Yeah.

• 31:50Rich Roll?

  You know, at a, at a vulnerable, at a moment that was already very raw and vulnerable.

• 31:54Julie Piatt?

  Yes. Yeah, it's true. And what I want to share and what I did learn from this experience, and I think it, it might be useful to others, is, is when we have children with people and we, those contracts come to completion. Because being somebody that's married, been married three times, I do believe, I don't believe there's one soulmate for us. I believe there's many. And it's a lot about divine timing. And it's a lot about these contracts that we have, that we enter into relationships with people and then they come to completion and they're complete. So it's not that it was a failure, it's that the experience, the work or the exchange or the alchemy is now complete. And sometimes that includes having

• 32:35Julie Piatt?

  children. And so we have, you know, divorced families or mixed households. But what I do want to remind everybody and something that I learned is that When you have children with somebody, you share an energetic structure, that it's within your being. And even though I hadn't been with Lou for 14 years, I didn't want to be with Lou. I was happily married to you and we have new kids, you know, other kids. And it was, I was never longing to be back there. It was complete, right? But when he passed, the boy's grief passed through me as their mother.

• 33:14Julie Piatt?

  And so what I realized in that was like, oh, like you can't separate that energetic. And we understood spiritually that he was no longer here. I knew it immediately. We weren't angry at life. We weren't trying to, you know, reconcile or change fate or whatever. We well understood. We had deep spiritual tools, you know? I've had sessions where I've interacted with him with other guides. So I have an expanded experience of Lou and where he is. But what I would say is that you cannot bypass the grief that must pass through your body

• 33:58Julie Piatt?

  because we are physical and we are in a physical container, a physical life form. And the one thing that I would offer to parents that have these contracts that have come to completion, this is another reason why it's so important to maintain a level of respect and dignity around those that you have co-created with. Because those individuals share aspects of that other person. And so if you're speaking badly or choosing to view your partner in a lower vibration, you are including the children in that.

• 34:37Julie Piatt?

  Unawareness in that misstep, in that imbalanced choice. So the more that you can see the good, you can hold the good, the higher vision and speak that, you know, about your partner that you are no longer with. This in fact fortifies the children and helps the children to be whole.

• 34:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I think that's super important, but also very difficult to put into practice. In my experience of watching other people navigate the vicissitudes of breaking up, like we've been together for long enough to be privy to lots of relationships over the years that that haven't made it. Like, I feel very grateful that we're in this place and we feel connected and, you know, our intimacy is in check and we continue to grow and support each other emotionally and all of these good things. Like, I don't take that for granted at all because I think it's it's rare and perhaps even increasingly more and more rare.

• 35:43Rich Roll?

  But I have, you know, noticed, watching friends and colleagues and other people figure out how to move forward after a breakup, that oftentimes the partners will intend to maintain that level of integrity. Like, we're not gonna go the divorce route of going to court and all of that. We're gonna keep this super cool and we're friends and, you know, with the best of intentions, right? But then something happens along the way and cracks in that firmament begin to appear. And before you know it, that there's a de-evolution that takes place where suddenly there is a bunch of smack talking in front of the kids and, you know, it really takes a turn

• 36:28Rich Roll?

  for the worse. And it's heartbreaking to see that. I'm empathetic because most of these people that I know that have gone through this are really good people and and they do have the best of intentions, but something takes place that kind of kicks it into a different.

• 36:51Rich Roll?

  Climate where their lower instincts kind of take control.

• 36:57Julie Piatt?

  It's true, and I have a little bit to offer on that from experience. And I would say that consciously, they say consciously uncoupling.

• 37:05Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 37:05Julie Piatt?

  Uncoupling now. Uncoupling. Now, but consciously, you know, making an intention to separate, you know, in grace is is no easy path. It is a warrior's path. It takes fierce commitment and you have to eat your ego so much. So let me be clear, when Lou and I divorced, you know, I will say both of us, you know, I want to say he did a lot of stuff I didn't like. I'm sure I did a lot of stuff he didn't like. So what I'd say, what I'd say is both partners will do things that are not in alignment. We are not perfect people. Okay, someone will make a stupid move and do a stupid thing and, you know, bring a relationship in and, you know, in front of the kids or, you know, whatever.

• 37:50Julie Piatt?

  Do something that's really, you know, that's really wrong. That's really not right, right? In all of those situations, a really great practice is to separate the action from the soul. So it's the same thing with any, with anyone you love. You can say to yourself, I do not like what he did or what she did, but I love her. I love him. I love them at a soul level. So I'm going to separate that deep, deep, you know, connection to the truth of who they are, and I'm still going to hold that highest vision for them, even if they've done the

• 38:32Julie Piatt?

  dumbest thing that is so, you know, vile or so attacking or whatever it is. If you can be powerful enough to hold that neutral and to hold that vision and say, okay, I'm going to allow my personality to be upset about the actions of the individual.

• 38:51Julie Piatt?

  But I'm gonna hold the highest divinity and I'm gonna remember, we created these children in love. And there were times where we were so divine and things were so amazing. And this is a good person. And let me remind myself of all the good qualities of this person. So you have to understand, this person is suffering. This person is going through a change of everything they know. They're grasping for some kind of stability. Whether you're the lever or the levy, it's never easy. It's not fun to get divorced. And it doesn't matter how much you wanted it, you will still process the pain and the loss. Yeah. So if you can just keep that in your awareness, you will do much better.

• 39:31Julie Piatt?

  And if you can find every opportunity to speak highly of the person that you created these children with, there has to be some attribute about something of the person that is a beautiful quality, or you wouldn't have had children with them to begin with. So there has to be something. And so that's a, that's a very, very powerful tool that you can, you can choose to practice. It is a choice of perspective. And society will want to drag you into name-calling. Society will want you to meet their pain in the destruction and the failure of divorce. But you can make a different choice.

• 40:15Julie Piatt?

  You can choose a perspective, yes. You know, people would say, "Oh, I'm so sorry it didn't work out." And I would say, "Oh, no, it worked out beautifully. It was a magnificent experience. We spent ten years together. We had amazing children. We created amazing creative projects. That experience came to completion." And even about my abusive relationship, "Oh, it was a divine experience. Literally transformed me, taught me so much. He is my divine teacher." Hmm.

• 40:47Rich Roll?

  How did you feel about that in the moment?

• 40:49Julie Piatt?

  Horrible.

• 40:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 40:50Julie Piatt?

  No.

• 40:50Rich Roll?

  Right? I mean, it's, I'm just, I'm just trying to place myself in the position of somebody who's sitting in that angst at the moment. And to say to that person, when the other partner is doing something that you don't agree with, or, you know, misbehaving, to say, take the higher ground, you know, shine that person with love. I mean, that is the path forward. Ultimately, you're playing the long game. It may not solve the specific issue in the moment, but truly, it is the only way to move forward and free yourself from the triggers of, you know, fear and anger and resentment and whatever else is boiling up.

• 41:32Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, it's, it's really, really hard. And I mean, I would use, that's why the abusive relationship that I was in, that I was in, has been such a magnificent teacher. I mean, first of all, let me just say that I was kind of, I was kind of arrogant. I was a little bit flippant. I was toying with, you know, male attention, you know? I was, I was a young girl, you know, and in my early twenties. And you know what that relationship taught me? It taught me to really cherish people who are kind. That's what it taught me. You know? When, when you've been on the receiving end of something very, very ugly for a long time, that is, you know, potentially ruining your life, you come to very, very much respect people who are kind.

• 42:15Julie Piatt?

  And I think in the beginning, you know, being in my late teens and early twenties, I was, you know, a little bit flippant and thought I knew everything and all that, you know, we go through. And, you know, the other thing is, what I learned in that experience is that every solution is resolved within your own being. All the power for your experience is within your own being. It's not about the other person.

• 42:38Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 42:38Julie Piatt?

  So it's not what the other person is doing, it's who are you in the face of what is going on?

• 42:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 42:43Julie Piatt?

  And what are you, who, are you big enough to hold that vibration? And to stop partaking in this exchange? And, you know, I had a therapist say to me during the time, you know, that fighting is fucking. It's the same thing. So if you're fighting a lot with who you're in relationship with, it's just another form of the engagement.

• 43:03Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 43:04Julie Piatt?

  So are you really done? Or are you just in there still duking it out? So when are you gonna stop that cycle? And, and also, we have to understand that our partners are not ourselves. So like in my case, Lou was very, very upset that I wasn't giving the boys meat. You know, he was like, you know, I'm concerned for their well-being. And he was trying to, you know, push meat on them when they were there. And they were pretty bonded to me and didn't really eat meat very much. So I was fine because I had, you know, I think as a mother at that age, I just had a lot of influence over them. But I didn't spend time being angry at him or make that a reason why we should fight, because then the kids were in an experience of fighting.

• 43:49Julie Piatt?

  And the most important thing was for them to feel a peace and a community and a respect and a dignity between their parents. And so I, I would choose that over, you know, whose turn is it to have the kids or not? And in our case, we both adored our kids and wanted them with us all the time, as I believe most parents do. And we never let them stay with a third person. We took them every time. If Lou had a business trip, he'd just say, I'm leaving. I'd say, great, I'll take them. You know, or if I had to go, he'd say, honey, bring them, I'll take them. So there is a way to do this in a positive way and get our own, deal with our own trauma and hurts

• 44:33Julie Piatt?

  and fears and losses within ourselves and try to keep the environment pretty clean for the kids, you know?

• 44:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I think that, that in a lot of these cases, I would, I would say, I would contend almost invariably, each parent is gonna have their own unique parenting style. And they're gonna have different priorities and, and ways in which they wanna raise their kids. And when you split up and the kids are vacillating between two households, those differences are gonna get exacerbated because there isn't necessarily a meeting of the minds about, you know, how much... You know, time on the devices, is there gonna be? How, you know, how much time to homework? And what is the, you know, whatever it is. And I think when one parent gets involved in trying to control or change the way the

• 45:23Rich Roll?

  other parent is attempting to parent those children, that's where a lot of conflict arises. And I've seen this happen. So I think recognizing that you have to release control over that and allow that other person to parent the way that they want, and that you get to have domain over that when the kids are in your house, is really the only healthy choice that you can make.

• 45:47Julie Piatt?

  I think it is. I mean, I think it's the most peaceful, aware choice you can make. And, you know, from my standpoint, I believe that we all choose our parents to create a certain field to, that will, that will seed and grow a certain experience that is for our own evolution. So every being has chosen the parental form that they're incarnating into. So no matter what that parent is doing, that is part of their evolution. And so by you getting involved and trying to change it, or shift it, or judge it, or make it wrong, you're in fact, taking some of their experience from them, even if that's difficult experience.

• 46:29Rich Roll?

  I like this idea of reframing societal and social expectations around relationships to remove the shame associated with a split by just relabeling it as completed. And I think it gives people freedom, because when somebody's relationship goes off the rails, or whether they're married or not, there's so much emotional energy invested in it, A, but then there's all these external pressures that get layered on top of that,

• 47:10Rich Roll?

  that make people feel bad if they make the decision to like, move away from it, right? There's, there's this sense of failure. And I think when you start to think of it as a cycle that has completed, that's now allowed you to move on and, and, you know...

• 47:27Rich Roll?

  Embrace a different kind of relationship is a much healthier way to look at it. And I think it's applicable, not just in romantic relationships, but in, in our professional lives or with mentors. Like a mentor can come in and serve a certain role for an individual to catalyze growth to a certain point. And then that growth curve is, you know, peaks out and is completed. And it's time for somebody else to enter your life and serve a role. And likewise, or conversely, we all do that in similar ways for other people.

• 47:59Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, definitely. And I mean, what is, what is the triumph of staying married to somebody that you're a complete with?

• 48:06Rich Roll?

  You made it. You did it.

• 48:07Julie Piatt?

  You made it to the end, you know? That's just-

• 48:10Rich Roll?

  Holding on, you know, like a-

• 48:12Julie Piatt?

  That's it. I can't stand her, but-

• 48:15Rich Roll?

  Like a dry drunk trying not to drink.

• 48:17Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, it's just, it is a societal, and you know, listen, I mean, I'm a very monogamous person, you know? I, and I think you are too. So we don't really have that, you know, polyamorous situation in our makeup. So we are very committed. We find freedom in commitment. But yeah, I mean, life is about the journey in the same way, even in this, you know, abusive experience that I found myself in. In the early days, you know, I was really pissed. Like I had a hard time even imagining that I would take responsibility for any of this, because none of this was sourcing from me. And what he would try to brainwash me into believing was that I made him hit me. So that was, that was basically the, the abusive cycle. And it was a classic cycle.

• 49:01Julie Piatt?

  So it took me a long time, but I realized later down the road, just, you know, maybe a couple of years down after I'd licked my wounds for a long time. I, I realized that, that until I took my own responsibility for being in the relationship and allowing him to treat me that way, that I would still be in bondage to this nightmare that had been such a big teacher in my life. And so by- Owning the fact that I'm a creator and understanding that that was a karmic experience that I had to experience in order to burn it, or that it was for my evolution, and I

• 49:44Julie Piatt?

  experienced a lot of evolution in that relationship. And I think that evolution is what allows me to have the type of relationship that I have with you today. So it's in the freedom of taking responsibility that we free ourselves. And once again, what I'm seeking for you at this moment, at this precipice, which it's good that we have the cameras on and the mics on, because we haven't really talked about this.

• 50:12Rich Roll?

  Yeah, what are you gonna say?

• 50:13Julie Piatt?

  Well, I'm really ready for the next evolution of what this relationship is. And I mean, for better or worse, or like it or not, I mean, you and I are very different individuals. We are maybe extremely different. And somehow, we have been put together by Divine Mother for this journey that has ignited some inspiration, some vision for, you know, for many who, you know, write to us, who want to know how we are in relationship, and the fact that we are so extreme, that, you know, sort of everything about the way we walk the earth is completely different. The way we approach the earth, the way we experience

• 50:56Julie Piatt?

  life. And I'm looking for now, this next level of evolution and expansion, when we are truly igniting both feminine and masculine energies within ourselves. And as we access these greater energies of fully stepping into our power, how does that look in a new paradigm relationship? And so we have traces and aspects of this prince princess paradigm that we, you know, we've, that we've played into that have worked for us. And it is a human way of relating man and wife. And I feel like we are on the precipice of

• 51:36Julie Piatt?

  writing a new way of being in relationship. And what does that mean? And so for me, to be clear, because I can see you're like, you're like, can you make a list? Can you

• 51:46Rich Roll?

  No, I'm not like, but I do want, yeah, flesh that out for me. So I know exactly what

• 51:50Julie Piatt?

  I mean, I'm looking for, first of all, more ceremony in our marriage. I'm look, but I'm looking for it not in, not in that I'm doing it and you're going along with it. I'm looking for a recognition and a knowing of the power of ritual and ceremony. And as we move through life, the letting go of our habits of watching Netflix, of watching, you know, movies, whatever those humanly activities are that that gather our attention for a moment. I'm looking for an expansion into really understanding that a life is precious and

• 52:33Julie Piatt?

  every moment we spend is precious. And now that we know that we've been given the privilege of being in this space, of having an audience, of having people that we can commune with, really committing to using that time and using that time in relationship. So we're back to the anniversary, no date, no celebration. The reason why I wasn't really attached to it is I didn't want to go to dinner with you. I don't want to go to a movie with you. I don't want to go do some typical anniversary-esque, you know, I don't want a dozen roses from you.

• 53:12Julie Piatt?

  I want to go on the side of a cliff and like take our clothes off and, you know, write us, you know, light a ceremonial fire, not really because there are fires around here, but you know what I'm saying. I mean, I want to explore what can we really do together that's beyond. I've gone to enough dinners. I've had enough roses. I don't need to go to another dinner. I don't need to go to, we can't even go to a hotel room because you sleep in a tent. So unless we bring the tent to the hotel room.

• 53:42Rich Roll?

  No, I get what you're saying.

• 53:43Julie Piatt?

  So do you, can you?

• 53:44Rich Roll?

  And I, and I'm, I'm up for that, you know, I'm up for that new experience. And I think it would, it would cultivate a, an enhanced level of intimacy that would take us into this next chapter. And I, I think just doing a retrospective on, on, you know, where we're at and how we got here, I look at it like this. We

• 54:10Rich Roll?

  We got together for whatever reason to co-create. We committed to this path less trodden. We underwent difficulties. We burned in the fire.

• 54:22Julie Piatt?

  Almost died.

• 54:23Rich Roll?

  Yeah, to emerge from that. And then we're presented with opportunities that I think over the last seven years, whatever it is, eight years, I have just worked my ass off to capitalize on in order to create stability for the family. And also, almost as an amends for the trauma that preceded it. And to prove to myself that I could be a successful, productive member of society, which is something I had previously struggled with my entire life. Or at least beginning when I started drinking.

• 55:07Rich Roll?

  And I've been in kind of crisis mode for that entire eight-year period, just trying to make it work. And now, we've emerged from that with a situation that is successful. It's stable. I've got this platform. I'm able to provide for the family. And essentially, I'm in this incredibly privileged, rare situation where I get to make choices about where I want to place my energy and make money. Like, I am essentially in control of that. But I'm still operating day to day like I'm in that triage situation.

• 55:51Rich Roll?

  And this has been impressed upon me by many people to just, "Listen, you can take a minute here and breathe and relax." And I'm like, "Yeah, but I gotta do this, and then this is happening." And it's like, "Yeah, five years ago, you had to be that way. Maybe two years ago, you had to be that way. But now, you don't have to be that way. And what is it all worth if you can't..."

• 56:16Rich Roll?

  Really feel gratitude moment to moment for what you have co-created and to be present in your own life. And that's something that I definitely struggle with moment to moment, and something that I want to be able to embrace and bring into my life in a more meaningful way. And that's a challenge for me, you know, because I'm running this program. And the fear associated with flipping the switch and doing it a different way gets associated in my mind with stopping, you know, like an arresting of the things that got me here, right? Like, this is the way I do it, and this is what's working. To do

• 57:00Rich Roll?

  it any way differently would mean risking capsizing the whole thing.

• 57:07Julie Piatt?

  Well, first of all, I want to say thank you that you have done an extraordinary job of coming into this level of expression. And it's absolutely beautiful to see, and it's breathtaking. And that has been an amazing experience for all of us, definitely. I would also say, again, that in a human format, we like to make a list and say from the brain that we have all these things to do first, and then we'll get to the spirituality. And so what we have to remember, and what I will remind you, is it is the purity of this relationship

• 57:49Julie Piatt?

  that fruited this entire drama, the entire thing that we're doing. So it started on a very special day. Well, it started before, but the day that we actually were married. It was a Spiritual World concert. There were channelers, Bhagavan Das, kirtan, gospel singers, African wedding dancers, and it literally was all about spirituality. And it was one of the most beautiful days of my life. I posted it on our anniversary on my Instagram feed. That ceremony is what was the intention.

• 58:27Julie Piatt?

  That created what we experience now. Are you connected with that?

• 58:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 58:32Julie Piatt?

  Okay.

• 58:32Rich Roll?

  I am.

• 58:33Julie Piatt?

  So what I'm saying is that, I just wanted to check in. You never really asked. You're like, yeah, it was okay. No, it is that level of desire, of devotion. It's really this devotion, this love affair with life, the love affair with the wonder of life and what is pulsing through each one of us and all life. And so what I would say to you is that you don't have to change the format of how you run the podcast. I mean, sure, you can shift and all that. And, you know, we're going to be taking some time off in December, which is magnificent. So all of that is great. But I guess what I'm talking to more is in the day to day of how you go about your day,

• 59:15Julie Piatt?

  I know there is time that is spent either, and this for all of us, I'm not like judging. I'm just saying it's social media, it's scrolling through Twitter, it's Netflix. It's, it's stuff that we do out of habit, stuff that we do out of habit. And this would be good for everybody. What if we all made a list for the next week of things we do out of habit that are not high vibrational activities that are furthering the life, that are actually being medicated or being suppressed or controlled by the society to check out?

• 59:56Rich Roll?

  Right, that are serving as medication.

• 59:58Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, but we just do it by default because we don't really even, we're not really thinking of it. We're like, okay, I worked a hard day. Now I deserve an episode of Handmaid's Tale.

• 1:00:08Rich Roll?

  Right, because I just want to distract myself and I just want to breathe and just, can I just not think about my life right now and invest in some story? That'll, that'll lull me into a sleep state.

• 1:00:21Julie Piatt?

  But what if you like chose, let's not ask you to give it all up. But let's just say if just one day a week, there was a two hour time period where you turned all the lights off and turned on a candle. And you actually communed with the greater being that you are. And you were like, you know, like when I sit in that, it's like, you know, lead me, guide me, direct me, reveal yourself to me, like reveal the path to me. I'm here, I'm here, I'm listening, I'm listening. So what I'm asking is, what would happen in our relationship? If we used our beautiful intimacy, our divine sexual connection,

• 1:01:02Julie Piatt?

  our wonderful play of opposites? What if we actually seeped that consciously in devotion? Not just from my side, because all these years I've been holding this, I've been doing this. The countless ceremonies, the countless, you know, rituals that I've done for years and years and years and years. What I'm saying is that we have an opportunity to actually step into this in the next level. And it's a level of visioning, it's a level of taking responsibility, and it's a level of saying, okay, we're available. You've shown us the divinity of our extremes together in relationship. And now we know that it's a new time on planet Earth

• 1:01:44Julie Piatt?

  and that we have an opportunity to move into a new kind of relationship. So lead us, so we're here, we're here and we're listening. It doesn't have to be like a big thing, but it could just be that. What if that was devoted to us instead of you going to group? Instead, or maybe in addition, but it seems like, again, it's like if this relationship, just like everything, if it's always the last thing, because you think it's always going to be to be here, then that's the danger, or that's the misstep. Because it's not necessarily, it's not, nothing that is uncared for, unacknowledged, or, you know, not...

• 1:02:27Julie Piatt?

  Not given the energy, then that thing doesn't grow. It doesn't change. It doesn't shift. And so as you and I are kind of veterans and we're entering, I cracked up the other day because I've had a couple of moments. You know, I was reflecting before we went to Plant Paratalia, which I wanted to talk about a little bit. And on the way there, you know, I was thinking, wow, I wonder if this is going to be the last event that I do with Rich. Because I know spiritually, I'm moving into a different arena. You know, I'm also evolving beyond what I've experienced in the past. And I was like, yeah, I'm kind of prepared. I don't really know how this group is going to receive me. And then when we went through it, like I was shown,

• 1:03:10Julie Piatt?

  they are exponentially like off the hook beyond anything we experienced.

• 1:03:15Rich Roll?

  And I should, I should add that I went into it thinking, this is probably the last time that we're going to do it as well. And that's informed in part by just how taxing the travel is. And it's in the same locate. It's like, the world's a big place. Why we keep going to the same farm? And it's amazing and beautiful and wonderful. And it works for what we do. But I was kind of like, am I over this? Like, are we done? Like, let's go through this week and that'll probably be it. But go ahead.

• 1:03:45Julie Piatt?

  Yeah. And I mean, you know, it's not your second nature. It's not something that you would do. It is my second nature.

• 1:03:50Rich Roll?

  It's your Dharma to sit with people and commune. It's not my thing. Like I'm, you know, I can speak to hundreds of thousands of people, you know, through the microphone and I find my Dharma more in that.

• 1:04:03Julie Piatt?

  Yes.

• 1:04:04Rich Roll?

  But the one-on-one kind of tutelage dynamic is not like I, I can do it, but I have to really gear up for it and suit up. Whereas you can just pop into that and it gives you energy. And for me, it's draining.

• 1:04:19Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, it's true. And that's a difference. And luckily you've gone along because at the end of the week, what did, what did you say?

• 1:04:27Rich Roll?

  So, yeah, so we have this experience with these. It was our biggest group. How many 52 people total? But, but I think eight of those were staff. Big group of people. And it was just utterly transformative for everybody who attended. And in the aftermath of it, it was like, we have to do it. We have to, well, I guess we're coming back next year. Like, we gotta keep doing this, you know? It was just too, it was too moving and too impactful and too emotional. To ignore that there, I think the point that you're driving towards is there's something about the uniting of our differing energies that catalyzes

• 1:05:09Rich Roll?

  something powerful that neither of us can do on our own. And as we continue to evolve and evolve separately and develop our respective little worlds of what we do, that when we occasionally come together and that Venn diagram overlaps for a specific purpose, that there's something unique and cool and powerful about that that speaks to and is endemic in the energy that birthed this whole thing that we get to do in the first place.

• 1:05:39Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, it is. I mean, it's profound, literally profound what happens. And it's happened every single trip. It's just this was like exponential like activated. I think it has to do with planetary conditions and it also has to do with the fact that I went to Dhammanher before. So I had this energy of the spiritual community that I had slept in the temples for three days. And so we were really primed for a really amazing experience, but it was a delightful surprise. And this is a huge amount of work for us as well. I mean, it's not like, you know, you see the pictures on Instagram and it's like, hey, you know, but it's a lot to hold space for that many people. I do thrive in it and I, and I love it. It's a profound experience and I

• 1:06:23Julie Piatt?

  consider it a privilege that you and I have been paired and that this has been what has been revealed through our relationship. And so as we, I was laughing, I was in my meditation office down in the garden where I sit every morning in the middle of a sage bush.

• 1:06:39Rich Roll?

  You disappear in the morning and go down the hill by the teepee and do some kind of, I don't know, mystical hijinks down there and then you come back and reappear.

• 1:06:50Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, it's such a beautiful, beautiful time to connect. But I was giggling at myself because I'm reflecting on our relationship and our anniversary. And then I happen to know my death date from a Vedic chart that I had done from one of the world-renowned Chakrapanis. In a Vedic chart, there are very, very much information. I mean, specific things like children's birth and the years that I built houses are in my chart, the years I divorced, like, it's all there. It's all there. So I managed to get my death date. And it's in a ways, so I'm fine.

• 1:07:30Rich Roll?

  All right.

• 1:07:31Julie Piatt?

  But I'll be around. But I was laughing because, you know, if you're going to be on the planet, some of your guests are talking about living to like 120, or I don't know, isn't there somebody? You know, I don't really want to live that long. So I have, you know, another, you know, 27 years. And I was cracking up, thinking of what, what 27 years, like, what is going to take up 27 years? And, you know, there's a whole evolution of a whole nother experience that's there. And it's like, we're at this exciting time on the planet when there's so much constriction and so much opportunity to create things that are beyond what we've ever known.

• 1:08:14Julie Piatt?

  And I know that is a divine privilege. And within the masculine/feminine energies, which can be residing in any one, male or female, there is an opportunity to understand maybe a more expansive story about how those energies interact. And so, bringing it back to, everything you have is within yourself. We all have everything that we need within our own beings. And as we embody more of our life form, we are able to choose to dance with others in certain ways.

• 1:08:56Julie Piatt?

  But it comes from a place of complete sovereignty. So that's what I'm interested in exploring with you in this next phase.

• 1:09:05Rich Roll?

  All right. I think that's a good place to end it for today.

• 1:09:09Julie Piatt?

  Okay, beautiful.

• 1:09:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah, thank you.

• 1:09:20Julie Piatt?

  Can I talk a little bit about a couple of things that I'm doing?

• 1:09:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah, no, I wanted to ask you about Water Tiger.

• 1:09:25Julie Piatt?

  Okay, thank you.

• 1:09:26Rich Roll?

  First and foremost, and then there's something else I wanted to have you explore.

• 1:09:31Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, so, well, that, sort of that essence and, you know, about, I think when I came on the show in August, I was, I was still, I was going through a rebirth and I had mixed feelings about even coming on your show. And then so many people reached out and they were happy that I was on. So, at least the ones that I heard. I'm sure there were others that were, you know, hating on me, but anyway. So, but I went through a really sort of transformation when I was sort of observing or reflecting on all these different traditions that I've studied with and different masters that I've been with and just different tools and techniques and perspectives. And what I've realized is from the whole group of everyone, that really

• 1:10:11Julie Piatt?

  comes down to your own perspective. And one of my most beloved revered Indian saints is a woman named Ananda Moima. And her name actually is Sri Ananda Moima. And I love this also because my spiritual name is Ma Ananda Sri Mati. So, we have every syllable the same except one. And she was born realized in just really the energy of Divine Mother and such a magnificent energy. She never worked, like she just existed in, in radiating high vibrational energy and people came to see her.

• 1:10:46Rich Roll?

  She was a renunciant from the beginning, right?

• 1:10:48Julie Piatt?

  Uh, she was just, yeah, she was basically just born, born awake. And she did nothing but just radiate love and people created ashrams around her, but she was just in her divine state. But she said this one quote that is one of my favorite quotes, and that is, "Every man is right from his own point of view." And of course, that means woman, too. But if you look at that, it's like, everything is all about perspective. And so here I was, I have a birthday coming up on Sunday. I've been on the planet for many, many years. I'm going to be 57 on Sunday. And what have I gained from 30 years of spiritual exploration in all these different rooms, with different teachers and different traditions?

• 1:11:33Julie Piatt?

  And what I had realized was that everyone has their own perspective. So if I know that everything is divine, and I know that you are divine, and I know that I am divine, and we all are divine, then I came into this body for a purpose. There is a purpose in here of why I'm alive. Otherwise, I wouldn't be alive. So I turned my lens to really find this perspective. I'm really interested in this perspective that this life form has, rather than comparing to other traditions, or this is the way the Buddhists did it, or this is the way the Vedic tradition does it. Or I'm more interested in me as a life form of nature. And so this is where Water Tiger came from.

• 1:12:18Julie Piatt?

  So being able to merge into a natural form where there is no need for validation, you're not trying to convince another life form to be how you are. You're not writing books saying, you know, it's really great to be a tiger and everyone should be a tiger. You're simply in the exploration of your own heart. And so I launched an online spiritual mentorship group called Water Tiger, and it's been an extraordinary experience. I'm doing a monthly call, which is on a timely topic. Then I answer questions from everyone. There's a forum and you can go into the portal and put all of your questions. And then I offer a dedicated healing technique.

• 1:13:01Julie Piatt?

  And these are a collection of minimal, very accessible and very powerful techniques that one can use to transform their life. And it will lead you into your own individual resonance. So I'm not really fostering interaction between the members because we have so much of that. Everything that we're listening to is outward focus. So this is all about inward inward focus and it feels really, really good. It's a very strong community already, just after two months. And it's been extraordinary. So that's really, really been amazing.

• 1:13:45Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I think this is the culmination of your life's work in in motion and expression. And it's been really beautiful and cool to see you build this thing and and your own and cultivate your own community that you can speak with directly. And and I think it's, I think it's also, you know, talking about continual evolution. Like, it's a, it's a, it's a bizarre kind of quixotic thing that you became like the plant-based chef and like known as, you know, this like vegan cook who wrote all these cookbooks. Because knowing you, like, that is a very small aspect of of who you are.

• 1:14:28Rich Roll?

  The larger, the larger picture is, is what you get to express through this new platform. And it's exciting that, you know, people can meet you on that level. And I think this, you know, if people are listening to this conversation or watching it, and they're connecting with you, I mean, it's, you know, it's kind of obvious that this is what you are, this is your purpose, and this is what you're here to do.

• 1:14:51Julie Piatt?

  It is. Thank you. Yeah, I am a, I mean, I'm a spiritual wayshower or guide or frequency. A lot of people feel the energy of mother from me. And I have many, many, many people who come to me who have lost their mothers or are feeling that support. And, and so that's it. And it's in whatever I do, if it's my music, or if it's in my food, I don't do it, I do it to share the frequency of this spiritual connection. So hopefully, it ignites a remembrance in those who are ready, or those who want that.

• 1:15:29Rich Roll?

  Right. Whether it's food or some kind of offer, you know, sort of verbal offering, these are just, these are all divine offerings, right? In different forms.

• 1:15:41Julie Piatt?

  It's all for that. And one of the things of the retreats, it's been so magnificent, is that the people that come Are largely people that follow you and that are coming to run with you or eat plant-based food. They're like, oh, and I'm going to check out Julie's yoga class. And what's been really profound to witness is the depth of experience that these people have had after working with me for the week and going through the spiritual transformation and the practices. And I want to just mention, I mean, these are not people who have practiced yoga their whole life or who are lifelong meditators. Some are, but many of them are very, very new to the idea of spirituality, just sort of reawakening the idea that they

• 1:16:26Julie Piatt?

  are a divine person. And to see the sort of breadth of experience at such a deep, deep level, it was truly just the divinity of beginner's luck, or, you know, the naivete of like a child. And I had to remind them, you know, people meditate their whole lives to have some of these experiences you guys had this week. And I think that's what, that's what we are. I mean, at one point, early on, before anybody was listening to us, we had printed a business card and you were the physical side and I was the spiritual side. And I think that that's what it is. It's like you provide a portal for those who are interested. So I want to encourage people to not create this mystique around spirituality

• 1:17:11Julie Piatt?

  like, oh, I don't understand it, or it's only for a few. What I'm doing with Water Tiger is very, I mean, it's very deep. I don't, I don't hold back. So you're going to have your mind blown. But I am getting very visceral techniques, techniques that are like embodiment, that put your awareness in your body, that bring your body organs online to communicate with each other. Techniques that sit you in front of the mirror and get you to look at yourself and really work out all that resistance and everything that you're hiding. So all the techniques are very, very accessible and, and functional and they work for our modern life.

• 1:17:49Rich Roll?

  And what's going on with the cheese?

• 1:17:51Julie Piatt?

  Oh, my gosh. So this is a

• 1:17:53Rich Roll?

  Can you talk about that?

• 1:17:54Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, I can talk about it. Yeah, I can, actually. So I am launching a commercial cheese line. I may have I may have mentioned it. I was in talks with some big corporate companies and taking meetings with people talking about how this company should be. And it started to feel very constrictive and very not in alignment for me. And so I kind of went away from everyone and went into my own experience and I decided to create cheese as art with all the devotion and the love and the taste and the beauty that I want in this product.

• 1:18:31Rich Roll?

  And we should just point out for new listeners or viewers, we're talking about plant-based cheese.

• 1:18:36Julie Piatt?

  That's right. It's plant-based cheese. So I published a book a few years ago called This Cheese is Nuts. And I spent two years creating a technology of creating plant-based cheeses. I'm extremely proud of this work. And the taste of the cheese is extraordinary. It's it fulfills and satisfies every need that you have for dairy cheese. And it's free from fillers and the weird gooey gums and like the whole week sort of weird vegan cheese, you know, category. But like everything, I'm a designer, fashion designer, artist. So it has to be seeped in devotion and spirituality and it has to be amazing design and it has to be extraordinary taste.

• 1:19:19Julie Piatt?

  So since I published the book, I've had enough public events where I've served the cheese for, you know, hundreds of people that are not plant-based. And I've seen it proved. So I know the taste stands up and I have people that have tasted my cheese two years ago that are still thinking about it. And I I have a very amazing talent to create these cheeses. So I have developed a brand and the name is Shrimoo.

• 1:19:49Julie Piatt?

  It is.

• 1:19:49Rich Roll?

  You're actually saying it out loud.

• 1:19:51Julie Piatt?

  I'm actually saying it out loud.

• 1:19:52Rich Roll?

  I wasn't sure whether you wanted to go public with that.

• 1:19:54Julie Piatt?

  No, I'm going to, and I'm going to give actually a link where people can sign up for subscription boxes. So they can, there's going to be just a landing page where they can go and just put their email in and then when I launch, I will get to them. So this is going to be an offering. It's a collection of cheeses. And because I'm a fashion designer, that if you want my cheese, you have to buy the collection. So it comes in a box of six flavors. A couple of those will probably be customizable, but it's an extraordinary collection. It has burrata, almond burrata, that's called Babe. It comes floating in a, it's in a jar floating in coconut milk. The next flavor is called Cloud Nine, and

• 1:20:38Julie Piatt?

  it's nine balls of cashew mozzarella, and they're floating in crystal waters. I have another flavor called Bonfire, and this is not your grandmother's cheese ball, but it's like a beautiful ball of smoked almond cheddar that has an outside layer of activated charcoal. I have another flavor that's called Birdie, which is a camembert flavored cheese that is the star of every cheese board. And then I have two other flavors. One is called Spire, and this is a spirulina divine aged cheese. And then the sixth one is called Elder,

• 1:21:19Julie Piatt?

  and this is a, an aged creamy, just beautifully aged cheese with activated charcoal also layers in that. So this is all packaged in magnificent branding, which I created with my friend Brian O'Hara, who did this mandala.

• 1:21:38Rich Roll?

  This painting here, if you're watching on YouTube.

• 1:21:39Julie Piatt?

  And actually this coating on this water bottle. So Brian has read and written backwards his entire life. And so I asked him to take the word devotional offering and create a hieroglyph or a pattern using that phrase. So for me, it's not cheese, it's a devotional offering. So it's called Sri Mu.

• 1:22:01Rich Roll?

  S R I M U.

• 1:22:02Julie Piatt?

  Yeah. Do life, devotional offering of life.

• 1:22:07Julie Piatt?

  And it's not cheese.

• 1:22:08Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:22:09Julie Piatt?

  Okay.

• 1:22:09Rich Roll?

  Why Shrimu?

• 1:22:11Julie Piatt?

  Well, Shrimu because it was kind of interesting because a lot of people I had worked with, you know, the guys from, the people from Headspace were like, you know, you should come up with a really catchy name. And they liked the name Not Cheese, which is a great name. That would be a great name. And I bought the URL for that. And then there were some other names that were thrown out, you know, by my previous partner that were all nice names. But I kept going back into my own divine design. And the fact that I was given the name Ma Nan de Shrimati, I didn't ask for it. An Indian master gave me that name. And it means divine mother. I mean, it means more than that, but Shrimati means divine mother. And within my chart, people want me to feed them.

• 1:22:53Julie Piatt?

  And within my Vedic chart, my birth is associated with the form of the cow. So the cow is divine to me. And when I went in to film the cover for this Cheese is Nuts, I called Gene Bauer and asked him if I could go to Farm Sanctuary. And I was invited in to work with the cows. I brought Jaya. And when we arrived, the handlers were in very serious. And they were like, Jaya can't come in the ring. And if this cow runs at you, run this way. And if this cow charges you, do this. And I said, well, can I put my arm around the cow? And they were like, wouldn't advise it. And I was thinking, wow, this is not what I had expected.

• 1:23:29Rich Roll?

  And these cows are massive.

• 1:23:30Julie Piatt?

  Oh, they're huge, huge, huge, huge cows. Because we usually kill them before we see them in their full expression. So I just was like, okay, there were like, one photographer can come in, that's it. So I did a little quick breath work, just real fast, kind of created a field, walked in. And as I walked in, they all started lying down. And then the handlers started to relax. And then I said, can I put my arm around them? And they said, yes. So there I was, lying with these cows, basically like dogs, kissing them. We got amazing photos. And when I was walking out, I said to the handlers, I said, thank you so much for inviting me for this experience. And one of the boys looked at me and he said, no, thank you for reminding us who these beings are.

• 1:24:15Julie Piatt?

  And I didn't quite understand it. But the next day, I received a letter from Lindsay, one of the managers at Farm Sanctuary. And she said, Julie, We have never seen the cows receive a first time visitor the way they did you yesterday. And she said, you literally had them on their knees. So there is this proof, I always joke that they're like, dude, she's making nut cheese. Like, chill her out, chill her out, you know, but, but it's like, you know, I don't know then, you know, I didn't know that, that I had that form associated with my birth. So I go back, I kept going back to the origin of who I am and the purpose of what I want to do.

• 1:24:54Julie Piatt?

  I want to create beautiful artisanal delicious cheese that give anyone who is looking for an alternative to cheese, an option. And I want them to be made fresh. I want them to be, um, you know, something that is divine. And so they're offered in an offering box, almost in a sacred box. They have the word devotional offering on them. They're infused with my love of life, my love of this planet and of cows. And, um, so that's where Shrimu came from. Um, you know, I, I thought about Shrimati, you know, it could have been Shrimati like mothers cookies, you know, that also could have worked. But I really liked Shrimu, Brian liked the way that it worked graphically.

• 1:25:38Julie Piatt?

  And I feel that in the end it's divine and it's a perfect name.

• 1:25:43Rich Roll?

  Well, this is very exciting and I've watched this evolve, uh, from the sidelines for quite some time. And the process of iterating on this idea has been, you know, an extended thing. It's not like you just woke up and like went running through this. Like you've really sat with how you want to express, uh, your vision through these food products for a long time to, to arrive at a place that really feels, um, true to who you are. And I think you've done that. So I'm excited for this to. Finally be publicly available soon. I didn't, I didn't know that you were gonna actually say publicly what the name is.

• 1:26:23Julie Piatt?

  I know, now I'm committed.

• 1:26:24Rich Roll?

  You better get that landing page up.

• 1:26:26Julie Piatt?

  No, I will. So this is what we thought.

• 1:26:29Rich Roll?

  Yeah, like if we get the landing page up, when is it gonna be publicly available?

• 1:26:32Julie Piatt?

  Okay, so the form is this, in order to keep it authentic to what I'm doing and to, you know, keep the production at the level that it has to be at. So what I'm doing is I am starting a subscription. I am considering doing an exclusive with one retailer, I won't say who the name is. And it's a very reputable, you know, just like the ultimate store that's in this space. But my model is, is subscription to begin.

• 1:26:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah, direct to consumer.

• 1:26:59Julie Piatt?

  It's direct to consumer. So I'm looking for interest, I'm looking for orders that are basically shippable. So it would be, you know, in California and in the US. Unfortunately, I can't ship internationally right now. However, that is coming. I mean, that is in the business plan. So we're beginning, you know, there are future things that are down the line, like a flagship store. And, you know, ultimately, one of my dreams would be to offer a sort of franchise that people could open cheese shops all over the world. And I could share this technology and this, this ability with, with people everywhere and give them a means to actually make a living. And, you know, Paul Hawking of, Paul Hawkins?

• 1:27:44Rich Roll?

  Hawken.

• 1:27:45Julie Piatt?

  Hawken, of Drawdown Project. One of the things that he shares is that in order to shift the culture or, you know, shift consciousness, we need to give people a way to make a living. So that's kind of the long range view. But before I begin that, the product, you know, I'm gonna be shipping out, you know, a couple hundred boxes of subscription cheese within the first three months. And then after that, I'll raise that to another, you know, another level. And at the same time, you know, we're in the workings of creating a flagship store. And, and, you know, we're gonna be getting information. And those of you who subscribe early on, you're gonna be feeding, you know, we're gonna be getting information from you. But I will say that I am.

• 1:28:27Julie Piatt?

  Very pleased with the review of the product.

• 1:28:31Rich Roll?

  Well, the product is rock solid. I mean, the cheese is insane, you know, Spire is my favorite. It's kind of like a blue cheese. Everything that you make is extraordinary and very different and better than any other plant-based cheese product that I've ever tasted. It's not even close. Like, and I think everyone who has experienced your cheeses would agree. And of course, I'm biased, but, but I think it is the truth. So I'm excited for this. And if people want to go to this landing page, where is this landing page?

• 1:29:02Julie Piatt?

  So you should go to, it's just gonna be on my website, juliepiatt.com, and it'll probably be backslash Shremu. But you could look in the tab and just look for Shremu. It'll probably say Shremu, not cheese. And then click on that and there'll be a form where you can enter your information if you want to be contacted when I launch. And so it's gonna be on a yearly subscription. And I'm, I'm, you know, the, the initial idea is that there would be six boxes a year. So you're not getting, I mean, you know, again, we're talking about cheese. I mean, I would love for you to eat cheese every day, but not really. You know, it's like, I want you to eat healthy plants. And, you know, we're not meant to be devouring boxes of cheese every day. I know that if you bring my box into your home

• 1:29:45Julie Piatt?

  once a month, you will be, your life will be elevated and you will enjoy this amazing blessing, really.

• 1:29:54Rich Roll?

  Can somebody just order, like, how, you're, you're expecting them to order for a year when they've never tried it, though? Can they just get a box and try it first?

• 1:30:01Julie Piatt?

  I don't know. I don't know. Maybe. Probably not. Probably not. I mean, I probably would be that, you know, they, I don't know. I need to talk to my business partner about that because I don't, I don't want to say anything that's not. But no, the idea is, it's been proven. I mean, the thing is, is between the people that have eaten my cheese at Plant Power Italia, if you guys have seen like the Insta stories and everything going on there. You know, we have a big body of individuals, I think, that are waiting for the cheese, that are ready to order it. You know, so maybe you don't want to be the first off. And if I do do an exclusive with this one retailer, then you could taste the cheese in that, in that area. The other idea is, though, that I would be doing pop-up events,

• 1:30:45Julie Piatt?

  because I'm really, I'm really interested in this community of drawing people together. So another thing that is part of the mission is that I would do a pop-up event where I would come and you could taste the cheese. So yeah, there'll be, there will be an ability to taste the cheese unless you don't live in California and I, and I'm not flying to your state.

• 1:31:01Rich Roll?

  Right, which is most people.

• 1:31:02Julie Piatt?

  But, you know, I don't know. So we'll have to see how that all pans out.

• 1:31:07Rich Roll?

  All right, to be revealed. But in the meantime, JuliePiat.com is the place to go. I'll put a link in the show notes and in the description beneath the YouTube version of this, when you have the specific URL, so people can go there to do that. And if they want to explore the universe of Water Tiger, how do they do that?

• 1:31:29Julie Piatt?

  Going to JuliePiat.com and it's, there's a tab that says Water Tiger, or it's backslash Water Tiger. And you'll scroll down, you'll see a very interesting photo of me painted like a tree, pregnant, seven months, in the dark. That is actually me. So

• 1:31:46Rich Roll?

  Don't be afraid.

• 1:31:46Julie Piatt?

  Don't be afraid. Just keep scrolling down. The other thing is, I did want to mention that if anybody wants to listen to that song that I spoke of, that's associated with Lou's passing, you can find my album on my site under the music tab, and also on iTunes and Spotify. It's Shrimati, and it's a mother of mine. The track is called "In the Sun."

• 1:32:09Rich Roll?

  All right. And those links will also go up in the show notes and in the description. So, all right.

• 1:32:15Julie Piatt?

  Rich Roll, I love you.

• 1:32:16Rich Roll?

  Love you too.

• 1:32:17Julie Piatt?

  I'm so happy. We're gonna be together now.

• 1:32:19Rich Roll?

  I guess we are.

• 1:32:20Julie Piatt?

  For a while.

• 1:32:20Rich Roll?

  Are we?

• 1:32:21Julie Piatt?

  We think we are. I mean, you know.

• 1:32:23Rich Roll?

  All right.

• 1:32:24Julie Piatt?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:24Rich Roll?

  Well, probably at least until a moment arises to do another podcast.

• 1:32:30Julie Piatt?

  Okay. Well, that's good.

• 1:32:31Rich Roll?

  That's the pact.

• 1:32:32Julie Piatt?

  That gives us some stability.

• 1:32:33Rich Roll?

  All right, cool. You want to take us out?

• 1:32:35Julie Piatt?

  Namaste.

• 1:32:36Rich Roll?

  Peace.

• 1:32:40Rich Roll?

  That's it?

• 1:32:41Julie Piatt?

  I guess. You usually do it the other order. So then do the other order. You just like-

• 1:32:46Rich Roll?

  No, I was gonna have you do it.

• 1:32:48Julie Piatt?

  Oh, I do it. Okay.

• 1:32:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:49Julie Piatt?

  Peace.

• 1:32:50Rich Roll?

  Plants.

• 1:32:51Julie Piatt?

  Namaste.

• 1:32:52Rich Roll?

  That's what I'm talking about.

• 1:33:01Rich Roll?

  We did it. That was that. That was me and Julie Piatt. What'd you guys think? Hope you enjoyed it. For more on Julie, check out srimati.com, S-R-I-M-A-T-I dot com, for her music and her podcast, Divine Throughline. Share your thoughts with her on this conversation directly on Twitter or on Instagram, at srimati. As always, check the show notes on the episode page for tons more links and resources all about Julie's world. And another reminder, sign up to be the first people to enjoy her totally mind-blowing, plant-based cheeses by visiting srimu.com, S-R-I-M-U dot com. If you'd like to support the work we do here

• 1:33:43Rich Roll?

  on the podcast, please subscribe, rate, and comment on the show on Apple Podcasts. That really helps new people discover the show. You can tell your friends about your favorite episode, share the show on social media, subscribe on my YouTube channel, Spotify, Google Podcasts, all those other platforms. And you can also support us on Patreon at ritual.com/donate. A word of appreciation in closing for all the people who help create this show, week to week. Jason Camiello for audio engineering, production, show notes, interstitial music. Blake Curtis and Margot Lubin for videoing the podcast for YouTube. Also Blake on audio duty today. Jessica Miranda for graphics. Ally Rogers for portraits.

• 1:34:24Rich Roll?

  How about that resistance piece that she directed and edited? Pretty cool, you guys. DK for advertiser relationships and theme music, as always, by Analemma. Appreciate the love, you guys. I will see you here soon with journalist and New York Times bestselling author David Epstein. He's coming on the show to discuss his latest book, Range. This is a fantastic conversation. It's an incredible book. You're not gonna want to miss it. So let me take you out with a taste from what's to come. And until then, keep on evolving, keep on loving. Peace. Plants. Namaste.

• 1:35:00Speaker 02

  If you don't change your identity overnight, you have to sort of start with these little keyhole experiments until something that you think was just an interest becomes like a real passion or a vocation. And so I think we underestimate how important it is to try to find like where our talents might most fit. Part of those talents just being voraciously interested in something and then you're going to work really hard at it. Over time, I think you should be moving toward that match quality. And don't worry about the lightning. Like, you can't force that anyway. But you can have this approach to being a scientist of yourself that means like your strategy will move you toward better match quality in the long term.