The Iron Cowboy Did It! How James Lawrence Completed 50 Ironmans In 50 States In 50 Days

I'm exploding with excitement about this week's hotly anticipated show. Today I sit down with James Lawrence — aka The Iron Cowboy — fresh on the heels of completing an absolutely unprecedented and mind-boggling 50 ironman-distance triathlons in 50 states in just 50 days. I honestly believe this is one of the greatest achievements in the history of (voluntary) human endurance. For the uninitiated, consider swimming 2.4 miles, pedaling your bike 112 miles and then running a marathon, 26.2 miles. After quickly eating and bathing, you enjoy anywhere from two to four hours of shut eye, usually in the back of a Subaru as it drives through the night to meet dawn in an adjoining state. Then you heave your weary bones up, eat, get dressed and do it all over again. Every single day. 50 days in row, across each and every one of the 50 states — including Hawaii and Alaska — without one single day off. Just think about that for a moment. Let it sink in. During James' initial appearance on the podcast (RRP 149) just prior to his 50/50/50 attempt, I went on record here and on various media outlets like Triathlete.com voicing my concern that James just might have aimed a bit too high. As someone who did 5 ironman-distance triathlons in a row on each of the 5 Hawaiian Islands, I happen to have a little experience in this arena. Admittedly my accomplishments now seem paltry (almost embarrassing) by comparison, the fact remains that I happen to be one of the few people on the planet who can truly understand, appreciate and deeply empathize with the abyss James would inevitably face, battle, endure and be forced to overcome in order to complete his extraordinary journey intact. I know what it's like to meet unforeseen obstacles that threaten to imperil the mission. I know what it's like to fall asleep on your bike. I know what it's like to have saddle sores so painful you can't sit down. I know what it's like to run through the night, hallucinating. And I know what it's like when that inevitable moment arises and you ask yourself: what am I doing to myself? But James and his entire family were all in from the get go. To underwrite the endeavor, they even sold their house and put all their earthly possessions in storage. So never for a second did I doubt his level of commitment. I knew he could complete 50 ironman-distance triathlons in 50 states. It was the 50 days part that bent my brain. Certainly he'll have to take at least one day off, right? Maybe two. In my mind, I predicted at least three intermittent rest days. James, you proved me wrong. You proved the world wrong. And I couldn’t be happier. Or more proud. It's not just that you did what you said you would do. It's the way you did it. It was your composure. It was you tremendous grace under fire. Your selflessness in service to a greater cause. All fueled by an attitude of gratitude. On a last minute whim, I decided to show up unannounced in Utah to surprise James, join him on his final marathon jaunt, and witness the conclusion first hand. An experience I will never forget, it was thrilling and emotional to be running just off his shoulder as he crossed his historic finish line, accomplished his goal, Enjoy! Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 0:44Rich Roll?

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• 1:05Speaker 01

  It's like having a kid. You're never ready to have that first kid, and you just know that you'll have it and everything will be okay. And it was like this. This was my baby. And I wasn't ready when I started, and I had no idea how I was gonna get there. I just knew, hey, I'm having this kid. And it's gonna grow into being an awesome adult.

• 1:28Rich Roll?

  That is the one and only James Lawrence, aka Iron Cowboy, this week on the Rich Roll Podcast.

• 1:49Rich Roll?

  Hey, everybody. What's happening? It's Rich Roll here. That's my name. This is the podcast. The podcast where... I probe the minds and the personalities of the outliers, the paradigm breakers, the big thinking, out of the box minds and personalities across all categories of excellence and positive culture change to mine the tools, the insights, and the principles that can help all of us unlock and unleash our best, most authentic selves. Hey, you know what, you guys? I appreciate you. I really do. There's so much great content out there vying for your precious attention, so I really appreciate you guys tuning in for subscribing on iTunes and subscribing to my weekly newsletter.

• 2:31Rich Roll?

  If you want to support the show, please take a quick moment to give us a review on iTunes. It really does help us out tremendously, so I greatly appreciate that. And you can also support the show by clicking on the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. It doesn't cost you anything extra on your purchases, and it's really a great free way to support the mission. So, you can make it easy on yourself by just bookmarking the link from the banner ad on my site to your browser, and that way, every time you want to buy something on Amazon, it's right there. You don't have to go to my site, and it's a win-win across the board. All right, you guys, so, uh, big show this week. Really big show. A lot of anticipation for my conversation with today's guest, the Iron Cowboy himself,

• 3:15Rich Roll?

  who just accomplished what I truly, in my heart of hearts, believe is one of the greatest achievements in the annals of voluntary human endurance, when he completed a completely unprecedented 50 Ironmans in 50 states in 50 days. So, for those of you who might not know what an Ironman is, consider this. Consider swimming 2.4 miles, then getting on your bike and riding it 112 miles, and then running a marathon, 26.2 miles. Then you go to sleep anywhere from an hour to four hours, you get up again, and you do it all over again.

• 3:54Rich Roll?

  Every single day, 50 days in a row, across all 50 states, and that includes Hawaii and Alaska. Not a single day off. Now, look... As someone who did five Ironmans in a row on each of the five Hawaiian Islands, I have a little experience in this arena. In fact, I might be just one of the few people who can actually relate on some level to what this adventure entails. Although, you know, look, what I did now seems paltry, almost embarrassing by comparison. And James and I talked about all this when he came on the podcast just prior to his attempt of the 50/50/50. That's episode 149. You can check that out. But anyway, at the time, I

• 4:37Rich Roll?

  went on record on this podcast and on various media outlets like triathlete.com. And I voiced my concern about the possibility that this could actually be achieved. And I never doubted that he could do 50 Ironmans in 50 states, but it's the 50 days part that really got me hung up. I know what that sleep deprivation is like. I know what it's like to meet unforeseen obstacles that push the timeline back and imperil the mission. And I just, I had a hard time wrapping my head around him, making it through this entire adventure without having to take at least a day off here or there, maybe two, maybe three, I don't know. But look, he proved me wrong. He proved the world wrong. And on a whim, I decided to

• 5:20Rich Roll?

  show up in Utah and run the final marathon with James and see it all wrap up firsthand. And I'm really glad I did. It was an incredible experience that I will never forget. It was emotional. It was thrilling. It was historic to be there and to see him cross the finish line, to the insane cheers of 3,600 people that were there in attendance to celebrate with him. It really was something. And I couldn't be happy for him. I couldn't be more excited for him and more proud of him. Not just that he did it, but the way he did it. With a huge degree of not only... Self-will and fortitude, but an incredible amount of grace and gratitude.

• 6:01Rich Roll?

  It was a really beautiful, real-life drama that played out not on national television, but in relative obscurity, outside of grassroots support. And in many ways, I think you could characterize this whole endeavor as sort of a social media movement, which makes it really extra special and cool. So, it's really my privilege to bring you the first, full, and completely uncut recap of this historic and extraordinary accomplishment to all of you guys today. And I'm gonna talk a little bit more about James and his family and the crew that helped make it happen, all of whom join us today on today's PodTacular in a second, but first...

• 6:49Rich Roll?

  All right, Iron Cowboy. Husband, proud father of five kids, an athlete who already holds two Guinness World Records in triathlon, first for the most 70.3 races in a calendar year, he did 22 in 30 weeks, and most Ironman triathlons in a calendar year, he did 30 in a 12-month period, who now, despite, and quite interestingly, considering himself to be very average when it comes to genetic athletic gifts, has truly done the extraordinary, a feat that he will tell you he chalks up to having been 80% mental. Think about that, 80% mental. But look, this was no individual achievement, it was truly a team effort.

• 7:33Rich Roll?

  James could not have done it without incredible support, and he had an amazing team comprised of family, friends, and sponsors, and communities of people that showed up in droves in every state to help him cross each consecutive finish line. So, not only do I get James's take on everything, I also get his wife Sunny Jo's perspective, I talked to his quite precocious eldest daughter Lucy, I think she's 11, maybe she's 12, about what it was like for her to support her dad by running the last 5K. Of every one of the 50 marathons in all 50 states, an amazing achievement for her in its own right. And I get the perspective of his trusty crew guys, these guys, Aaron Hopkinson and

• 8:17Rich Roll?

  Casey Robles, AKA The Wingmen. These guys became like bigger-than-life characters in this unfolding drama. If you followed it on Facebook, you know what I'm talking about. Really, these guys need their own TV show. So, anyway, we get into all of it. We talk about James's overall reflection on the experience, what it means to him, his family and others. What was his driving force? How did he fuel himself? We talk about the travel, the chaos and the insane exhaustion that he experienced. We talk about the impact on his five kids, how he approached recovery each day, what were his lowest moments, how did he keep his mind occupied? How did he learn to accept help? It's very important.

• 8:59Rich Roll?

  And interestingly, we talk a little bit about the controversy and some of the negativity that was thrown his way throughout the course of this adventure. It's pretty interesting. And we also delve into an exploration of the mental strength and fortitude required to complete it and so much more. So, a couple of things. First of all, I get pretty emotional at the end of this podcast and that was not expected. It's definitely a first, so there's that. Maybe that's just an indication of just, you know, what it was like for me to experience this firsthand with him. Anyway, you can hear me kind of break down a little bit at the end. And the second thing is, I made a really cool video of my experience being there to run

• 9:44Rich Roll?

  the final marathon with him and what that experience was like. For me, I've embedded that video on the episode page at richroll.com for this episode, or you can check it out on my YouTube channel. It's a pretty fun video. I think you guys will like it. And I'm also interested in doing more video stuff, so let me know if you like it, if you want me to do more video, I'm happy to do it. It was really fun making this video. So, all right, look, enough preface. Iron Cowboy, Sonny Joe, Lucy and The Wingmen. Dig it.

• 10:19Rich Roll?

  It's like a high-pressure situation with a film camera, all this kind of stuff. High production value, man. Go big or go home, right?

• 10:27Speaker 01

  We don't mess around.

• 10:27Rich Roll?

  All right, well, Iron Cowboy in full effect, Sonny Joe, The Wingman, Aaron and Casey, we're all here and we're gonna wrap it out. We're gonna get to the bottom of this crazy 50/50/50 nonsense that you just completed. A lot of intrigue, a lot of interest in learning more about how this all went down, man. So, super excited to be with you guys today. Thanks for taking the time. I know your life is topsy-turvy and upside down right now, so it's really cool to be able to carve out 90 minutes with you guys and hear all about it.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  We're stoked, man. Every place that I went to was like, "Hey, how'd you hear about us? Oh, Ritual Podcast, Ritual Podcast."

• 11:09Rich Roll?

  Yeah, man.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  And so, you know, I was, I tell everybody, "Well, I think Rich is gonna call me for a follow-up." And so, I'm glad it's taking place and that you could come here to Utah.

• 11:20Rich Roll?

  Sort of observing from the sidelines, "How's this gonna play out? We'll see. I don't know. You know what I mean?"

• 11:25Speaker 01

  Well, we're honored to have you in our house. Thank you.

• 11:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah, cool. So, no doubt, like, throughout the whole experience, I was getting messages all the time on Facebook and emails, "Hey, I went out to support the Iron Cowboy, found out about it on podcast." You know, people were just stoked, in every state, to turn up and, you know, enjoy the experience with you. And it was really cool to see the evolution, right? Like, I mean, how many people showed up, you know, in the first couple of states versus, you know, what we saw in Utah, which was insane.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, Alaska, I mean, I had one girl that did the whole thing with me and five, five people on the, on the run. And then Utah, I mean, we had 400-plus riders and 3,500-plus at the...

• 12:07Rich Roll?

  Were there 3,500? I'm so bad at counting numbers. I go, "There's gotta be at least 1,000 people here. There were 3,500? Wow."

• 12:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was crazy. It was, you know, I had a lot of think time out there and I kept, you know, thinking how that, that last day might play out. I was just overwhelmed with gratitude and, you know, just felt so loved coming into there. And I thought, "Yeah, my, my 50 friends are gonna show up and ride with me." But it was just, it was just super cool to have... You know, the state really come out.

• 12:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, home state, you know, doesn't hurt, of course, but even so, I mean, I arrived maybe a half an hour before you came in on the bike. And I saw the tent set up and the, obviously, the RV and I saw Sunny and, um, and there were maybe, I don't know, a hundred or 150 people. And I'd seen the video earlier in the day, so I knew there was a huge group that had, that had gone out on the ride with you. But even then, I was like, wow, look at all these people here. And then like every hour that went by.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  Cause I watched the, uh, the little, little clip that you put up and you were like, man, this place is, is jumping. And I was like, this is early footage.

• 13:07Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I know.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  Like, nobody had even shown up yet. And, and you were like, yeah, look at all the people. That, that it just, you know, continued to grow as the marathon went on.

• 13:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it was crazy. And I actually caught some great footage, um, on my GoPro. I was running right behind you when you, when you finish. So I'm going to cut together a nice little video. It won't be anything as super pro as the Jaybird guys.

• 13:26Speaker 01

  That was a cool, that was a cool shoot.

• 13:27Rich Roll?

  It was pretty cool what they did. So, all right. First of all, how are you feeling?

• 13:32Speaker 01

  Uh, you know, shockingly good. Uh, I, I, I think I felt worse after the, the 30 Ironmans in a year. Um, just because it was, it was a year long and I had to transition from athlete to father, athlete to father. And this was just, the, the 50 was obviously way more intense, but it was in such a condensed period of time. And, uh, I, I, I don't know if I just managed my body better or if I just didn't give it time to, to go through injury. But I, I mean, really, I don't have any, uh, stress fractures. I don't have any torn muscles.

• 14:13Speaker 01

  Um, literally the two things I'm dealing with is numbness in my pinky and my ring finger. And then, um,

• 14:19Rich Roll?

  Is that from like pinched nerves from riding the bike?

• 14:21Speaker 01

  It's the ulnar nerve. Yeah. So my dex, my, you know, dexterity, like tying my shoes and. I can't, I can't open a jar of pickles right now.

• 14:30Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  And then I've just got some swelling and numbness in my feet.

• 14:34Rich Roll?

  But soreness?

• 14:35Speaker 01

  No soreness. I'm not sore at all. I mean, it was, it was crazy. Um, just the way that my, my body adapted in that last event in Utah. Um, we calculated our, my moving time and, uh, it was an 1130 Ironman and it was the fastest of the 50.

• 14:51Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's crazy.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  Which is not, it's mind blowing to me.

• 14:53Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's crazy. I mean, the crowd, I'm sure helped and just being home and.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Well, I'm knowing, knowing I didn't have to do anything the next day.

• 15:00Rich Roll?

  Right, right.

• 15:00Speaker 01

  I was going to my bed and not a motorhome bed was a huge incentive.

• 15:03Rich Roll?

  Well, on the run, like that last lap that you took before the 5K, I was like, what is going on? You were, we were like, I'm, I think we're running like seven minute pace or something like that all of a sudden.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  We dropped into low sevens and dipped right under seven minute mile there for, for a minute. The last three miles before the final 5K, um, we were sub 22 minutes.

• 15:21Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 15:24Rich Roll?

  Well, I can say from my, you know, my experience doing one 10th of what you did, that my fifth one felt the best, you know, and it's weird. It's a weird thing. And I, and I talked about it in my book. You know, how the, it's almost like the body finally goes, okay, like I get it now. Like, why didn't you tell me this is what you were trying to do to me? Like, you know, now I can, I can, it, it adapts. It's incredible.

• 15:45Speaker 01

  It's crazy. And that's what, that's exactly what I experienced out there. The first 15, 20, I mean, it was just hell. Um, just cause my mind knew what it was doing and it, uh, it, it kept trying to tell the body and the body just, it just didn't get it.

• 15:59Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  Until, until we passed a certain point. And, you know, if you look at my, if you look at the last 20, um, I was just a, a robot metronome. I mean, my, I would start and finish the exact same, same time every day. I mean, that we could predict when I was coming in on the bike off on the run. I'd have the same amount of miles done before the 5K. I mean, it was just, just like clockwork and my body finally caught up. To what my mind had been telling it, this is what we're doing.

• 16:25Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  And it just, it just took me a little longer than five.

• 16:27Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  Cause I mean, it 50 is just, uh, just so big. And, uh, so it took 20 for my body to go, oh, there you go. That's what we're doing.

• 16:37Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right. To finally click in. Well, it's in survival mode. Like it thinks you're trying to kill it. I remember I got super bloated and I actually gained weight because my body was thinking, I gotta store this food because I'm running out of fuel. Like it was weird. And then like a week later, I got super skinny because it was almost like the body is saying, you're just trying to hold on to that. Like it's trying to live, you know, and it thinks you're trying to kill it.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. I, I went through all these things that you're explaining, just on a, just on a bigger level. Um, the, you know, I lost seven pounds the first week.

• 17:08Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 17:08Speaker 01

  And we went, oh man, we can't sustain this. Like there's no way. And so we just started throwing food at me. And then I went through that phase where I was just like bloated and it's like just, I looked like an Ethiopian, just, just super skinny, but my stomach was sticking way out. And then we figured out that we had to adjust our proteins and my body was just like craving protein.

• 17:31Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  And then once we got all that back in check, I ended up putting that seven pounds back on.

• 17:37Rich Roll?

  Interesting.

• 17:37Speaker 01

  And we maintained our weight the whole way through.

• 17:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah. I mean, you look, you look the same as you did when you started. I mean, what, was there any weight loss from beginning down? Were you weighing yourself every day?

• 17:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. It was just that seven pounds in the first week and then we put it all back on and then I just, just maintained and held steady.

• 17:52Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right. So what was the fueling strategy?

• 17:56Speaker 01

  Just as much food as we could get in me. Uh, so just for example, breakfast was, uh, two bowls of oatmeal with like walnuts, coconut, um, some agave or honey. And then I'd go do my swim and then I'd come out of the swim and I would have some variation of, um, either a breakfast sandwich or burrito. Um, I mean, sometimes the, the ambassadors would have just a spread and I would come out and I would pound two to three plates.

• 18:22Rich Roll?

  Right. Yeah, there's pictures on Facebook, these massive plates of food.

• 18:25Speaker 01

  Plates of food and I would just shovel it in. So I was getting in like thirty five hundred calories just before going out on the bike.

• 18:30Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 18:31Speaker 01

  Just cause in the, in the evening time, it was very difficult. Um, just my, my, my number one priority was getting to sleep. Just cause it ended up being four to five hours a night. And so eating just wasn't high on my excitement to do list, you know?

• 18:47Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  And so when I woke up in the mornings, I was just like starving and I just couldn't, I couldn't consume so much before the swim. So we'd get in those, those two big bowls of oatmeal and then just post, post swim, pre bike. I was just so hungry.

• 19:02Rich Roll?

  And you can't really eat on the run, right? So what do you eat? You gotta be eating when, when you're on the bike though, right?

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. Uh, well, actually we, I would take a break, um, probably about right before the five K, I would come in and I, I mean, I would eat a whole, a whole meal.

• 19:19Speaker 02

  This one day you went running with this giant hoagie and he held it in the middle and just pounded it through the run. The entire hoagie was bigger than a twelve inch sub.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  There, there was one day I came, I came in and it was in a, uh, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. And, uh, the guy owned a restaurant and I came in from the, from the, the first portion of the run. And he had, uh, just this huge porterhouse steak and a whole thing of vegetables and a thing of mashed potatoes and I stayed the whole.

• 19:50Rich Roll?

  You stayed the whole thing and then went out and kept running?

• 19:52Speaker 01

  And finished the run, yeah. Yeah. And so, and so, and, and it was interesting cause my body had just said, you know what? I, I would rather take the fuel and not complain about it. Cause I didn't have any like cramping or weird bowel issue. I mean, it's just amazing that my body just said, well, I would, I'm gonna take the fuel.

• 20:10Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 20:10Speaker 01

  And I'm not gonna complain about it because I need it.

• 20:12Rich Roll?

  Uh huh. And what about in your, in your bottles on the bike and stuff and in your handheld when you're running?

• 20:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, uh, we, we used mostly a company called Energy Lab Nutrition and they had, uh, my in race kind of electrolyte drink. And then, uh, I always used in my bottles for the run, um, a blend, it's called Blend Fresh and it was, um, organic fruits and vegetable powders.

• 20:35Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 20:35Speaker 01

  And it was kinda, it was weird cause in my mind I said, okay. I'm near, near the end of my day, even though I still had, you know, a huge portion of the run to do. But I said, I'm going to start taking in these, these, these high micronutrient powders. So that my body can start recovering for the next day. And it was, you know, you, I can't carry around, you know, tomatoes and, and, you know, cucumbers and this is massive amounts to get what I need. And so we had to, we had to revert to these, you know, these powders. But they served just an unbelievable purpose for me because I just got all of everything I needed. And mentally, my body, you know, I told it, I said, look, you're, you're preparing now, starting recovering. So my fueling strategy on the run was actually my preparation for the next day.

• 21:20Rich Roll?

  Right. Yeah. You're always eating for the next day. You're always, yeah. Cause you're running a caloric deficit no matter what.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:26Rich Roll?

  Right. So you're always, you're always playing catch up. It's almost like, damage control at all times.

• 21:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 21:33Rich Roll?

  So it worked out, man.

• 21:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it did work out. I was, I was really happy. I mean, that was one of the biggest concerns going in was when, how are we going to get the amount of calories that we need? How are we going to get the quality that we need? And then, um, are we going to have to deal with GI issues? And it just never happened, which was unbelievable.

• 21:50Rich Roll?

  What was the, well, let's take it back to the beginning. All right. So you start in Kauai. It's Kauai, Alaska, Washington, Oregon. So you stacked the deck against yourself from the get go because you, you, you got three airline, two airline flights, three airline, two airline flights.

• 22:05Speaker 02

  Three, including flying to Honolulu.

• 22:06Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So.

• 22:07Speaker 01

  Well, and, and I ended up flying from California to, uh, that was a huge drive from Oregon.

• 22:12Rich Roll?

  Right. Cause you had to get to Santa Cruz.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. Cause it was a 10 and a half hour drive and we didn't have enough time to finish the race and then have me travel 10 and a half hours. So we sent Aaron in a car a day ahead of us. And then I flew after the event. And so, I mean, there was, in those initial three. I had.

• 22:32Speaker 02

  Four flights.

• 22:33Speaker 01

  Four, yeah. You know, those in between the initial four events, we had three flights. And, um, you know, had anything gone wrong, I mean, we were under like commercial, like time deadlines.

• 22:45Rich Roll?

  Right. Yeah. If you miss your flight, you're in big trouble. Right.

• 22:48Speaker 01

  Especially if, I mean, had we had to do that 10 hour drive with me, I mean, that would have.

• 22:51Speaker 02

  Ended up being 12 because we had San Francisco traffic. So it was 12 and a half hours. We didn't get there till 10:30 in the morning.

• 22:55Speaker 01

  I mean, that would have, that would have had me starting at 10:30 and then, then you're just way.

• 22:59Speaker 02

  And the next drive was long to Vegas. So we needed that travel time as well.

• 23:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. The Vegas was eight and a half hours. And, and, and then on top of that, we're dealing with massive exhaustion. I mean, in those first three events, I had a total of seven and a half hours of sleep.

• 23:11Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  All which was on an airline because we started that one in Hawaii at midnight. So no sleep the, the night before, because you just amped up. You're about to start 50 Ironmans. So like, like you're going to sleep. So I do no sleep. I start at midnight. I do an Ironman. I get three hours sleep, four hours sleep getting to Alaska. We land, lose all that time zone time.

• 23:30Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 23:30Speaker 01

  Land at six. I'm in the pool by seven. Finished that one, fly out of Alaska at midnight. Land at six, in the water at seven, and then we had to start the Oregon one at 5:00 AM because I had to catch that, that flight.

• 23:43Rich Roll?

  Right. You gotta get it done in time.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  So those first four.

• 23:46Rich Roll?

  So, yeah.

• 23:46Speaker 01

  We're dealing with just like insane exhaustion.

• 23:48Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right. So I'm thinking, and you know, and I was frank and open about this from the get go. Like when I looked at it and, you know, I knew what you had done previously, but I didn't know you personally. And, and I was like, you know, he looks super fit. He's obviously, you know, knows how to crank out tons of Ironmans. He's going to be able to do 50 in 50 states, but I'm thinking. After that first five or six or seven, or maybe, maybe even nine or 10, if he's lucky, he's going to have to take a rest day. It's just like, I just don't see any way around it. And if he meets one sort of unforeseen obstacle that even pushes him back an hour or two hours. That's going to cause a major ripple effect. That's going to affect your ability to do the whole thing, right? And it's not like.

• 24:32Rich Roll?

  You didn't meet obstacles. I mean, in Hawaii from the get go, you had the cops, like you had stuff happening. You have flats, you had a bunch of flats, like.

• 24:39Speaker 01

  Four flats.

• 24:40Rich Roll?

  It's, it's, so it's not like this was obstacle free by any stretch of the imagination. You're meeting obstacles every single day.

• 24:45Speaker 01

  Well, it's crazy. Yeah. We had that, all those things happened in Hawaii and I'm like, oh man, this is number one.

• 24:50Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  Like we're up against it and I knew what was coming in the next several states. And so I was like, man.

• 24:56Rich Roll?

  Just hunker down.

• 24:57Speaker 02

  I'd say to Jay, I'm like, stuff goes right for people all the time. People make flights all the time. People travel across country all the time without any mishaps. Why couldn't it work for us?

• 25:04Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 25:05Speaker 02

  You know, so even hitting the deer, that could have been really tragic.

• 25:09Rich Roll?

  Wait, I didn't know about hitting a deer. Where did that happen?

• 25:13Speaker 02

  Casey, just clip, we ended up, we, I will take no accountability for that. Casey, wingman number two, clipped a deer and had he hit it with the front, he hit it from the front of the, the RV, it would have caused serious damage to the engine. But he ended up clipping it, just taking out a headlight. So things like that, there were things that happened.

• 25:34Speaker 01

  Well, that, that deer.

• 25:35Rich Roll?

  So that was what caused a big dent on the front of the RV?

• 25:37Speaker 01

  Yes. So that deer, that, that thing totally freaked me out because I was sleeping in the back. I was sleeping in the back corner of the RV and I was already paranoid to begin with, like RVs are not meant to like sleep in it.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  We were an hour outside of Flagstaff, so we were almost there.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  Our, our RVs are meant to like travel to your destination, set up, sleep well, you know, stationary.

• 25:58Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 25:58Speaker 01

  And so, but we didn't have a choice. We were sleeping while moving and Casey hits this deer and he hits it on the right side that I'm sleeping on. And I swear, he, he hit it and it does this like spin pirouette down the right side of the motorhome and like hits right where I'm sleeping.

• 26:16Rich Roll?

  Oh wow.

• 26:16Speaker 01

  And so it was just like this loudest noise and I'm like in this exhausted state of panic. And so now from that point on, all I, every time I go to sleep, all I can think about is frigging deer.

• 26:26Speaker 02

  He has to finish, he has to finish his story though. James sits up and says, Casey, what did you just hit? Casey's like, nothing. She says, no, you hit something. He's like, no, no, everything's

• 26:36Rich Roll?

  So what happened to the deer? Did you guys stop?

• 26:38Speaker 02

  So James said, pull over right now. Casey gets out and he's like, oh yeah, I hit a deer.

• 26:43Rich Roll?

  Oh wow. That's a bummer.

• 26:44Speaker 02

  Aaron saw her flying everywhere.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  And then like two, and then like two days later, I'm in the, I'm in the, we moved me to the, the 15 passenger van. We set up a bed in there for me. And I, I think it was two days later and we're driving down the road. And like this herd of deer comes out. Were you driving? I was. Aaron was driving and he just described it as like these, these deer bouncing in the middle of the road. He manages to not hit any of them, but one of the deer just like took it upon himself and head butts the side of the van right where I'm sleeping. And again, it was like this giant explosion. And so it just added the, my paranoia of deer and sleeping and so.

• 27:21Speaker 02

  Which stuck the whole trip.

• 27:22Speaker 01

  Which stuck the whole trip. And so I'm freaking out every time, like.

• 27:25Speaker 02

  Every night.

• 27:26Speaker 01

  Every night.

• 27:26Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's not helping your.

• 27:28Speaker 01

  No, my rest. Right. So, so it became very difficult for me to, I, I, I eventually moved full time into the van only because it was less of a stress for me. Um, because of the movement was less, but man, those stupid deer, they plagued me from the beginning.

• 27:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I saw the pictures of you sleeping in the van and I was thinking like, why isn't he sleeping in the RV? There's gotta be a better bed in the RV.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. The, the issue was, um, the, the back of the RV, it just, that movement is so exaggerated. And, um, I, I just slept better in the van just because it didn't, it just didn't move as much.

• 28:01Speaker 02

  And top of the axles.

• 28:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I've been right on top of the axles and, and we were also pulling a car behind the motor home and it was just so loud. And so any, any bump we went over, it was just like.

• 28:12Speaker 02

  It was a trailer.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  It was just like thunder going off. And so the sleep was less than ideal.

• 28:17Rich Roll?

  Right. Alright, so you get through the initial, you know, five of them. I mean, I, I would think like, you know, are you starting to, I mean, how are you feeling after those first four or five off basically like no sleep?

• 28:29Speaker 01

  I think, I think because it was 50 when we were in the first four or five, that excitement level is still there. And, and it was so chaotic with the crew and we just, we hadn't figured out what we were doing at that point.

• 28:41Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  Um, and because we did the first two without the, you know, our, our core crew and they met us in, in Washington. Um, the first two were just, you know, us by ourselves and it was kind of fun and I had still tons of energy and we were excited. We were making the flights and then so it really started in Washington. Um, and, and then that's when the, the, the chaos kinda started because we just, we, everybody started to get really tired. Um, and, and it was just, it was just chaos and, and nobody, nobody was org, like, we couldn't figure out how to organize or get a flow to the day.

• 29:13Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  Was, I think, one of the biggest issues.

• 29:16Speaker 02

  That took like ten states.

• 29:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  Long time.

• 29:18Rich Roll?

  To, to, for it to like click in and you guys are working like a, you have a system in.

• 29:23Speaker 02

  Well, we didn't have any help driving, so the wingmen were driving all night and crewing all day. So we didn't have help with crewing or help with driving.

• 29:29Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:30Speaker 02

  So, and that, figuring that out for them was really tricky.

• 29:33Rich Roll?

  Right, so.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  And well, and then the hardest thing for me too is I, I've got this monumental task that I'm trying to do. And, and I became just so concerned about the crew.

• 29:44Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and that's the one thing that you shouldn't have to think about.

• 29:46Speaker 01

  And, and I became so concerned because they were exhausted and having to drive at night and I kept saying, guys, are you guys okay? And how can I help you? And, and it became this, well, I'm trying to, I, I had to, I had to almost separate myself from, look, I, I have to take the emotion out of it and not really care about you guys anymore, which is really, really, really hard for me to do.

• 30:06Rich Roll?

  Uh-huh.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  And.

• 30:07Rich Roll?

  That's why they say never have your friends crew, let alone your wife.

• 30:11Speaker 01

  Let on your wife and your kid. And so it was really hard for me because I, I had to separate myself from that emotion of like, hey, are you guys okay? And, and I don't think I ever did it successfully. I, I worried about them every single day, you know?

• 30:23Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 30:24Speaker 01

  Just what they were doing and, and I have, you know, deep love for this whole crew. So it made it really difficult for me because I knew how hard they were working. And they were out there because I was out there, right? So I felt ultimately responsible for, for them being out there. I'm like, man, if anything happens, it's on my watch and I'll, I'll never live up, you know, I'll never.

• 30:42Rich Roll?

  Right, but the only way to move forward is for you to put that out of your mind, right? And.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  And it was a hard thing for me to do.

• 30:47Rich Roll?

  You know, for people that are listening, I mean, first of all, like my observation, uh, just on the final day, was like, it was working like clockwork, like everyone was just like totally tight, like it was like a machine. So obviously you guys did figure it out, but for people that are listening and, and Aaron and Casey, maybe, you know, one of you guys or both of you can chime in here. Um, you know.

• 31:08Rich Roll?

  I think the idea that, you know, you always hear like athletes say, "Well, it was a team effort and I couldn't have done it without X, Y, and Z and these people." But in this case, like, it is more than you can imagine. And the job of crewing for something like this, I can't even fathom, right? So, I want to make sure that I disabuse the listener of any idea that the crew job involves just driving the van and chilling out. Like, you're on point 24 hours a day. And when you're trying to, you know, tend to the athlete, tend to James and make sure that his needs are met, it's not like there's any downtime. It's always, "What's next? What's next? What's next?" You have to think three, four, or five steps ahead. And then, how are you guys getting any sleep when you've got to then

• 31:50Rich Roll?

  drive all night and get him sorted out for the next day and then be able to be, you know, alert enough to serve his needs the following day, and then the day after that, and then the day after that?

• 32:00Speaker 01

  It's interesting, because they would play a game called "Not It" every morning. And it was, uh, who, the loser had to go wake me up.

• 32:09Rich Roll?

  Uh-huh, right. No one wants to have that dreaded task.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  I mean, it was just, I was so exhausted going into every day. And I don't know how Casey lost every day, but he ultimately became, I think it just became default that Casey was the guy to wake me up.

• 32:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, first of all, how did James hoodwink you guys into this job to begin with?

• 32:31Speaker 03

  Uh, there was no hoodwinking involved. It was, uh, him just asking, "Hey, this is what I'm gonna do, and I'm gonna need some help, and I'd love for you to help." And my eyes got really big, like a little boy on Christmas morning, opening the best person ever. And, uh, my next thought was, how do I convince my wife that this is a really good idea? Because I have a five, a three, and a one-year-old.

• 32:51Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow. So, how'd that conversation go?

• 32:53Speaker 03

  Uh, "Hey, honey, I got this really cool idea. Do you not want to spend summer with me?" But, uh, she saw that, um...

• 33:04Speaker 03

  She probably saw that, looking at it, that I would probably be so obsessed with it and I'd be texting him every single day. And she knew that when he was doing his thirty, I would text him a lot. And I'd always ask him how he was doing and how his race went and I saw how was, how he was doing. And she knew that I would be so engrossed in it that I probably wouldn't give her the time or attention she would need. So she's like, might as well send you on your way anyways.

• 33:25Rich Roll?

  Right. And, and you have a job that you could take off for the summer?

• 33:27Speaker 03

  Yes, I teach elementary school.

• 33:28Rich Roll?

  Oh, okay.

• 33:29Speaker 03

  So I just got done with my fourteenth year and teach first grade and summers are the best for that. So it was perfect.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  What about you, Aaron? Aaron straight up quit his job to come out and do it. I did. Aaron's a maniac.

• 33:42Speaker 04

  No, I got to train with James last year and about the same time last year is when he asked me, but I only started, I only knew him from like January before that's like six months prior to when he asked me. So he's telling me about the project and he's like brings, brought it up one day. He's like, come, do you want to come with me? I was like, sure, just kind of not thinking he was serious about it.

• 34:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, like I didn't think he was really serious because I didn't, he didn't know me that much. And so a couple of weeks later I got brought up again. He's like, I'm serious. I, I want you to come with me. He's like, I need you. So I was like, alright, cool. So from there I committed and then just kind of got more passionate about the, kind of the project and it just all fell in and I just made it work with work and well, the one job, I didn't make it work. Just if I already told him I would, I wasn't going to bell on him. So.

• 34:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And you guys are still, you're still crewing. What, what we're like, how many days out are we? Four days after it's done? You guys still think it's happening. It's still going on.

• 34:42Speaker 03

  So true.

• 34:42Speaker 01

  They, uh, and then these guys, they own a role, uh, once they, once they get it. What was cool about Casey and Aaron, um, that we didn't even know from the beginning was they're complete opposites. And, uh, like it's yin and yang with these two.

• 34:57Rich Roll?

  You wouldn't know that though, because everybody's got a beard and I'm, you know, like when I got to the RV, there's just one guy after another coming out of the RV with a beard and I'm like, I can't keep all these guys straight.

• 35:07Speaker 01

  What, what, what was amazing though is they just, they just complimented each other so well. And, uh, when one was down, the other was up and they just. They they knew how to do the perfect mix. Um, they knew when Sonny needed something, they knew when I needed something. And, uh, man, it was just, it did take us a while. But man, if you were to watch us over the last 20 races, it was like poetry.

• 35:31Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 35:32Speaker 01

  Like, we got it.

• 35:32Rich Roll?

  Right. And I want to get into Sonny's perspective and the family kind of, you know, take on the whole thing in a minute. But before I do that, hold on a second. Um, I want to ask these guys, uh, what was, what was the hardest part of crewing for this? And, you know, your biggest sort of misconception of, of, of what was going to be involved? And then also I want to hear something about James that maybe James doesn't even know, like what you experienced working with him throughout this whole ordeal.

• 36:06Rich Roll?

  Come on, dude.

• 36:07Speaker 03

  The, one of the stressors we had coming into this was like really knowing what our role was. Cause we'd heard that we were going to do this and we're going to do this. And it was like, how are you going to do all this? And my wife kept being like, how are you possibly going to survive driving and being awake all day? And we thought that we were going to be out on the course with him as well. Most of the time, running and swimming and biking as well. So there was that, that whole like, oh, and then we quickly realized that, um, we weren't going to be out there being able to run, bike and swim with them like we would have liked to have. But it didn't matter because that wasn't about us. It was about James. And so we quickly just threw those things off to the side of the, to the road and said, well, when we have the moment that we can swim, bike or run, we'll do it, but we need to be there for him. And, um, so, yeah.

• 36:52Speaker 04

  Yeah. I think the hardest was just kind of getting the sleep down. And so right at first we were just driving all through the night. And so we're running off like a couple hours of sleep.

• 37:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah. I mean, were you ever like, oh my God, like what did we sign up for? I had no idea it was going to be, you know, I mean, did you have that kind of moment of like,

• 37:11Speaker 03

  No, it was so exciting.

• 37:12Rich Roll?

  I think maybe we bit off, uh, really?

• 37:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:14Rich Roll?

  But at some point that must've worn off, right?

• 37:16Speaker 03

  It was so minute to minute, the whole time for 50 days. It was like,

• 37:21Speaker 01

  From the word go to the Utah finale, it was literally minute to minute.

• 37:26Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 37:26Speaker 03

  Because we were changing states every time and we're staying, changing courses and we're changing time zones and then it's like you have the course, but then they change it and then you have to drive this, the Subaru in the van and the motor home. All to a new location because the miscommunication was we were supposed to stay there, but no, we have to change. So. It was always something was happening, something was changing. And so you always had to just kind of stay in. It was exciting.

• 37:49Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 37:49Speaker 03

  That was the whole thing. Yeah.

• 37:50Speaker 04

  And another thing that kind of helped me going is getting to a new state and then there's all these new people are just like so like amped up and like excited that he's that we're all there. And so like we kind of feed off of their energy and just kind of get ready for that day and then. Would get to the next day and just start all over again. So.

• 38:08Rich Roll?

  Right. And, and what did you, uh, what did you learn about James that you didn't know about him as a result of going through this experience with him?

• 38:17Speaker 03

  He's very patient with stupid people. Meaning us.

• 38:24Speaker 03

  There's many times where he's like, where's this? And we're like, oh, Aaron and I learned. That we never told this. We learned that we just lied to him a lot.

• 38:31Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 38:31Speaker 03

  Like he'd be like, where's this? Like, oh, it's right here. And then we'd go find each other like, where the hell is this? Like, I don't know where it is. Do you know where it is? I don't know. And we'd go searching through things and somehow luckily we'd find it'd be like, oh, it's here the whole time. I knew where it was. So we lied to him a lot.

• 38:43Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm. But I think, you know, with that level of fatigue and exhaustion and the pressures of, you know, the relentless pressure of it, you know, having to keep going. Uh, you know, you find out who everybody is, right? Like you're not going to hide behind some kind of pleasantries. Like your true character will be revealed, right? The dark, the light, the good, the bad. Um, I mean, what were, were there some moments where? It, it, it, it felt like maybe it was starting to break down, you know, and you guys had to have a team huddle or, you know? Any stories like that?

• 39:16Speaker 04

  I don't think anything really broke down. I mean.

• 39:18Speaker 03

  I don't think so. I think, um. It was very interesting the way that Erin, myself and Sunny worked together. And our number one goal was James and we kept that at the, at the head every, every day, every moment. James was our focus and that's why it worked so well. Would you agree Sunny?

• 39:36Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 39:36Speaker 03

  Uh, it was just, he was our focus and it wasn't about me and it wasn't about Erin. It wasn't about Sunny and it wasn't about any of us. It was about James and making sure that he got to fifty. That's why he hired us. That's why he asked us to crew for him because he knew that we would be able to help him reach fifty. And as long as you keep that, as long as we kept that in, in, uh, in, in the front of our heads, then we are good to go. Nothing happened.

• 40:00Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right. Alright, so Sunny. Get on that mic.

• 40:04Speaker 02

  Yes, sir.

• 40:05Rich Roll?

  Alright.

• 40:07Rich Roll?

  What do you make of this, all this, this whole business? What's going on?

• 40:13Speaker 02

  I was gonna say that.

• 40:13Rich Roll?

  Son of Joe mama.

• 40:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. I said I married the guy a long time ago, well before his Aaron Cowboy. He, I always knew he was a dreamer. Frankly, like as a couple, I'm a more of a structured, type A, I like things done sort of way. And I remember we were first married. James would throw us stuff everywhere. He's not a super tidy person, as your secret revealed. And, uh, it would make me absolutely crazy. First year we were married and I decided one day like I'm going to have to change. He's not going to change. And so I started leaving things as therapy and not putting them away and not, you know, and eventually I feel like James and I came together where he could tell that I wasn't making as big of a deal about it. So he started to make an effort. I started to make an effort, so forth.

• 40:58Speaker 02

  So this is definitely relevant, our marriage where I am not necessarily a safe person. Like I want a, a job as an accountant and I want a salary. I grew up, my, my dad was an entrepreneur. Um, but James is definitely a lot more dreaming than I am typically used to. And so he's taught me a lot about life, a lot about the things that matter, a lot of things that don't. He used to say to me, who cares? Why does it matter? And I was like, I'll give you forty-two reasons why it matters. And then I'd think about it and realize it didn't really matter. So through this journey leading up to this, he's definitely come my way. I've definitely come his. And so when we take on a big project like this, we work really well together.

• 41:38Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:39Speaker 02

  So I was ready for it.

• 41:40Rich Roll?

  You were ready for it. So when he first, uh, raised the idea and said, this is what I want to do? What was your reaction?

• 41:47Speaker 02

  Well, we were in my friend Dano's kitchen in Chandler, Arizona, getting ready to do the race in Arizona. We just finished Lake Havasu. And he's like, I have this great-

• 41:57Rich Roll?

  This is during the thirty through-

• 41:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, two thousand twelve, this is race number twenty-

• 42:02Rich Roll?

  My timing may not have been the best.

• 42:04Speaker 02

  Hey, this is my story. Okay, so back to my story.

• 42:08Rich Roll?

  All right, how long you guys been married?

• 42:10Speaker 02

  Fourteen, fourteen and a half years. So we're almost, we're between the two Arizonas. And he's like, I have this great idea. I want to do fifty Ironmans in fifty states in fifty days. And everybody in the room's like, awesome. And I was like, do you have any respect for me whatsoever? I said, you can't even wait until this project is done. Because two thousand ten and two thousand twelve were extremely hard for me. I was at home with the kids. Our kids were very little. We didn't have hardly any income. We were living off like a thousand dollars a month up until two years ago. I mean, we literally were living on starvation basis.

• 42:44Rich Roll?

  Right, five kids and they're all like, there isn't that big of an age gap.

• 42:47Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, they're all right in a row. Yeah, right in a row. And we had our kids sleeping next to a fireplace in one of our houses because we didn't have heat in their bedroom and they all shared a room. They didn't have any beds. We'd sold them off. I mean, we, we came a long way through this. So in two thousand twelve, which was a particularly hard year, he, for him to mention this, I was like, are you freaking kidding me? Because he has no idea what happened to him. He wasn't there. And I never told him. I never told him about the hard stuff because I wanted him to stay focused on his goal. So I had really good girlfriends that I could vent to and we could go work out in the morning and talk about it. So I was so mad he presented it before this project was even done. So I said, you can't talk to me about it till February. I figured that would give me some time to heal. So he came to me in December. I said, not till February. Came to me in January. I said, it's not February. And then

• 43:32Speaker 02

  he came to me in February and said, it's February.

• 43:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah, this isn't going away.

• 43:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, so he wanted to do it in two thousand fourteen. I didn't think that was an appropriate timing. So we decided on two thousand fifteen. I said, I hate the idea, but I'll support you. And then, of course, our kids got older. I got a little better break. And then we charged this project. One thing I do want to say is that um.

• 43:52Rich Roll?

  But you eventually came around and you were excited about it.

• 43:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was just I needed time to recover from that first event. And then we were then I was ready, I was ready. But I do have to say, I went back to school and James supported me through that and I timed that. I had five semesters left. I squeezed it into four to finish just in time for this project. So while James was planning all this project, he was also taking care of our two youngest kids while I was in school.

• 44:15Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 44:16Speaker 02

  And he supported me through that whole thing. On top of that, I didn't help with any of the planning of this project. So I set up the initial states, but this guy hammered it out on his own. And of course, he had a couple of people helping him and stuff, but I give him a lot of credit for that because I didn't, I didn't do anything. He really owned this project and he really grabbed it by the horns and he took care of it. So I know that was hard for both of us. I wanted to help him. He would love a little more help. But based on the circumstances, we couldn't do it and he still pulled it off and I'm really proud of him for that.

• 44:44Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's interesting. It's a, it's, I think it's a really powerful lesson in um in making a dream happen, right? So here you are, you got all these kids, they're young, you're struggling financially. And it's very easy to just say, look, we can't do this right now. Like maybe in a couple of years when we're more stable or, you know, we'll reevaluate. Um, but I think it's, it's really a testament to when you have that dream and you just start moving forward on it, even if you haven't gotten it figured out. How, you know, you can make it happen by just, you gotta, you can't wait until it's all planned before you start. You have to start, right? I'm sure you didn't know how you were gonna get the finances. I mean, this is a huge endeavor, right? So

• 45:26Rich Roll?

  there were so many moving pieces that had to come together, but you just began, you believe it's gonna happen. And then things start to slowly fall into place.

• 45:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like uh it's like having a kid. You're never ready to have that. You're never, you're never ever ready to have that first kid and you just know. That you'll, you'll have it and everything will be okay. And it was like this, this was my, this was my baby. Um, and I wasn't ready when I started. Um, and I had no idea how I was going to get there. I just knew I'm, hey, I'm having this kid.

• 45:55Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 45:55Speaker 01

  And, um, and it's gonna, it's gonna grow into be an awesome adult.

• 45:59Rich Roll?

  Yeah. I had an observation, um, you know, just sort of witnessing everything that was going on in Utah on that final day. I recently had, uh, this guy on the podcast called Ryan Holiday. He's, he's a brilliant writer. And he wrote a book called The Obstacle is the Way. And it's really kind of a modern, um, review of the philosophy of Stoicism. And he kind of looks at the works of like Seneca and Epictetus and Marcus Aurelius. And he's sort of applying these, you know, two, three thousand year old principles to modern day life. And I read that book and, and so I've been thinking a lot about that. And I was thinking as I was watching you.

• 46:36Rich Roll?

  Like, I don't know if you've ever read a Stoic text, but you are demonstrating, you are emblematic of that philosophy in motion, which is really this idea that, um, you know, our culture kind of has it all wrong. Like we're, we're supposed to be, you know, failure avoidant. We're supposed to try to find the easy life. We're trying, we're trying to, you know, make the safe choice so that we don't have to face, you know, difficult times and all these sorts of things. Whereas, you know, you're, you're, what you accomplished and kind of what, where I see you standing is somebody who says, no, these obstacles are just there as, you know, character builders and you meet them as they come and you find your way around them. And that's the path, right? That's the path to fulfillment. That is how you build character.

• 47:22Rich Roll?

  And how you act in the face of those determines who you are.

• 47:26Speaker 01

  Well, we, we were expected to fail. Like that, that was, that was the overwhelming majority. Like, we announced it and there was like failure, like you, there's no way. It's impossible. You're just setting yourself up for failure. So why start? And I just like, it just fueled me, man. I just, it's just like, bring it on. Like I know who I am. And I know what I'm capable of. And so just, just to have, it was really, it blew my mind that this, the, the way that, the general population that like they think, it's just like.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  They come up with this attitude of why try, you're gonna fail. I'm like, why not try? I might not fail.

• 48:08Rich Roll?

  Well, it's an interesting thing too, because you think like if you, if you publicly announce some aspiration, that people will give you a pat on the back and cheer you on. And that's not the way it works.

• 48:19Speaker 01

  We got lynched.

• 48:20Rich Roll?

  You know, and so you have to choose your, the people you surround yourself with very carefully. And that was another thing that I took away from, you know, observing the day is that you had this core group of people around you that were protecting you, who held that same vision and, and that vision was very strong and the level of focus was, you know, really palpable. Like you could feel it like it was in your eyes, like this is happening. You know, and you were cordial and polite, but you were standing in your strength, you know, there was like a quiet strength about what you were doing that you could feel this being around you, you know, it was like, oh yeah, he, he doesn't doubt it for a minute. I can feel that.

• 48:57Speaker 01

  I was, I was so inspired by my oldest daughter Lucy. She, she was on the last day when I came out of the water.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  She was doing the, the periscope of, of me coming out of the water. And we, it was a little bit of a pathway walk and they, and they gave me these blankets and they, and I apparently I looked completely pathetic because people on periscope was like, somebody carry him. Somebody, somebody put him on, on your back.

• 49:22Rich Roll?

  Well, the Fazari video that you just posted today showed a little bit of that, like you were about to.

• 49:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. And Lucy read that. And they were said that like Lucy, why don't you carry him or have somebody carry him? And Lucy went, my dad is strong. He's got this. And at that moment I was just like, oh, that I've set like just this coolest example and she gets it. Like she had so much conviction, like there was no way in her mind that her dad like,

• 49:46Speaker 02

  Wasn't gonna finish.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  Wasn't gonna finish. And it was just so, so cool that I had, you know, it's that core support that you were talking about that surrounded me. And, and my, my daughter just exemplified that. It was just like in that moment I was like, Damn, she's got my back.

• 50:00Speaker 02

  She's ready to go head to head with anybody who says you can't do it.

• 50:03Speaker 01

  She was like so, so just like engrossed in it. She was like, that wasn't even like, my dad, he doesn't need a piggyback, screw off. Dude's got this. So I was just like honored in that moment. I'm like, that's my girl.

• 50:16Rich Roll?

  She's awesome. Yeah, when I arrived and I, and I saw you and then Lucy was there and she was like, I was gonna call you. I was gonna call you until you, you had to come. And I was like, you should have called me.

• 50:25Speaker 02

  She said, we should get Rich Roll to do a follow-up interview. I say, do it. And she's like, well, I was gonna say, I was gonna call him up. I'm like, okay.

• 50:32Rich Roll?

  I know. I saw her outside here too. I wanna, she's like, mom told me to go downstairs. I was like, no, no, no. I wanna get you on record.

• 50:39Speaker 02

  She keeps the other kids quiet.

• 50:40Rich Roll?

  Oh, okay. Well, hopefully I can get, get her for.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  It'd be really cool, cause I mean, it was really unbelievable that, I mean, and it was, it became apparent to us, deep into the campaign, she started doing all the five Ks and it became just this monster goal for her to do all fifty-five Ks. And there was days where, where the, the caravan, because of long travel, we would have needed to roll out early. And, and the whole crew said, no, Lucy's gotta do her five K today. And the whole crew made a sacrifice because Lucy needed to do that five K.

• 51:12Rich Roll?

  And she did it, man.

• 51:12Speaker 01

  She did it.

• 51:13Speaker 03

  Oh, anytime she got word that we were gonna leave early, she's like, what?

• 51:16Speaker 02

  We're not leaving until five K. Not until five K, right?

• 51:18Speaker 03

  Let alone like, we have to leave before James finishes. Like, she was so upset. Like, anytime we had to leave.

• 51:24Speaker 02

  Hated it.

• 51:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, we should get her up here and.

• 51:26Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So how, so how was the family vacation experience of, of having all the kids?

• 51:33Speaker 02

  Shall we start?

• 51:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you know, sort of involved in this whole thing.

• 51:37Speaker 02

  So when we saw you in Salt Lake City, I was still feeling really nervous because a lot of these flights were red ice. And um, I remember when I was young, I came from a family of eight. My mom couldn't handle all the little kids. So we'd get home from somewhere really late. And she couldn't carry us in and I hated that. Like, I'd be asleep and I wished so bad that she could have carried me in. And so it seems like such a petty thing, but with my kids, I've always really tried to do that for them. You know, if they were tired, I tried to alleviate that burden a little bit, especially if I dragged them somewhere late at night. So here it is, I'm thinking, okay, there's more kids and I'm gonna be able to carry. You know, they've gotten older, I put them on my back and done a piggyback in. So that first, when we got to LAX, I felt all the pressure and stress leave from preparing for this trip.

• 52:20Speaker 02

  So when I saw you, I still kinda buzzed and jazzed about what it had taken to prepare. And then when we got into Hawaii and we had done the red eye flight and we'd gotten people on the rental car and gotten in, I was like, okay, it's gonna be okay, I'm gonna handle this. So the, I was really nervous about the red eyes and the late nights with so many little kids. Um, you know, I did my very best to make sure the kids were having fun. My, my one motive for this trip was to make sure they had the best summer of their lives. Um, that panned out, maybe fifty percent of the way, because I ended up becoming a project manager, which I had not anticipated.

• 52:54Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 52:54Speaker 02

  So I ended up needing to delegate and deal with some of the business stuff that I hadn't anticipated, but I still really focused on making sure they did fun things. Like they said, not another museum, we skipped the museum. We had days that we really enjoyed where we were able to just lay low and just hang out in the RV and, you know, do nothing. Um, there were a lot of local people, I'd say the majority of our fun ended up being from locals who prepared and presented opportunities to us. You know, we picked up these tickets for you. You can come to my house, we have a private lake in the backyard.

• 53:25Rich Roll?

  Oh, that's cool.

• 53:26Speaker 02

  So I felt my burden alleviated big time from the locals who stepped in to entertain us. So we had done some research and had some ideas of things we wanted to do, but the locals really stepped up and they really made the trip for us.

• 53:37Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 53:38Speaker 02

  So we had a great family trip. They slept all night long, they didn't wake up till after the swim. They were able to go to the store and spend the money they'd been saving for the last year. Um, they, we had a really great trip as a family.

• 53:50Rich Roll?

  Party down. But was there ever a moment where, you know, one of the kids, you know, Quinn's like, can we go home? I wanna go home.

• 53:56Speaker 02

  So there's two.

• 53:58Speaker 02

  There's two experiences that go to my mind. I'll try not to get mad about one of them. Just kidding. So one was about five days when our friend Liz, who we, who we're staying with right now, when she came out, um, when she was getting ready to leave, Quinn's like, she's going back to Utah. When are we going back to Utah? He's like, I wanna go back to Utah, dad told me he'd take me to get a slurpee. And I realized in that moment, Quinn missed his dad. Um, he and James spent a lot of time together normally and he was ready to go back to Utah. And so I thought, well, that's not bad. Seven days before, but Idaho Falls.

• 54:30Rich Roll?

  Cause dad's around, but he's not really around.

• 54:32Speaker 02

  He's not. I mean, people don't, I don't think people quite comprehend how it was obviously. But I got maybe five minutes a day. And if I got time at night, it was fighting for his attention with everybody else. And so, I mean, it was impossible. So to get the kids in there, especially where the kids take more effort and energy, we had to really shelter that because James couldn't emotionally handle that much physical stress, emotional stress, mental stress. So we tried to get the kids engaged in what he was doing so they could spend time with them. So they would ride their bike with him or they would do stuff with him so that it didn't deflect from what needed to be done.

• 55:11Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 55:11Speaker 02

  Um, so the night before we came to Utah is Idaho Falls and everybody's outside cheering and having freaking out because James has finished the second to last race and we're going home. And Quinn is in the motorhome having this wicked tantrum, freaking out, screaming, crying. Of course I kept wrote it is about. And he never has fit. So this one was like, you're caught off guard. And I knew he was just tired and wanted to go home and freaking out. Lucy and Daisy come in and they get in this big fight. I have the entire motorhome screaming and crying as I hear the cheers of everybody having a party outside the window. And I was like, I hate my life.

• 55:53Speaker 01

  Well, and that was the one thing I finished that race.

• 55:54Rich Roll?

  With one day left.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. And one day left and everyone's like, we're going home and there's this big party and I'm looking around like, we're sunny.

• 56:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:01Speaker 01

  And then I found out later she was, you know, dealing with a few kid problems and, but those were far and few between.

• 56:07Speaker 02

  Chief said, where were you? I said, being a parent.

• 56:09Speaker 01

  Well, one of the, one of the things was when we were out there is everyone would ask me, how are your, are your kids just killing each other in the motorhome? And I'm like, no, they're having a great time. They're really good friends and, and, and, and really we didn't have, I mean, for how close quarters we were and for how chaotic it was, the kids were just unbelievable.

• 56:26Rich Roll?

  And you guys had Airbnb was a sponsor, right? So it seemed like not every day, but you had houses kind of periodically where you.

• 56:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, the Airbnbs didn't work out as well for the family. Those were better for the crew because they were further away and we only had four hours in the day as a family to do things in order to come back and meet with James. And so we used the Airbnbs, but they weren't as economical as we originally thought they'd be. So originally we had this vision of what it would be like and it didn't work out.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  Oh, you're gonna hang out at this house?

• 56:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, cause it's like, why would I go spend four hours at the house if I can take the kids to the county fair? And then by the time we were done, it's like, okay, now it's time to go back. So we used the Airbnbs, but they weren't a place of refuge like we initially thought they would be. Like I was thinking, oh, start my day there, make lunch, hang out, make dinner, pack it up. It wasn't like that at all because everything was like minute to minute to minute to minute.

• 57:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like a military operation.

• 57:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, but they loved it. I mean, they didn't care that they were on top of each other. They had, we had 12 people at a time in that RV and they didn't care. They knew. I mean, the little kids just ran around and played like any other summer day. The big kids were engaged in the project. It was great. I'm, I'm tired, but it was awesome. They loved it. They had a great time.

• 57:35Speaker 01

  All right. So Lucy's here. High five, girl. You rock. That was awesome.

• 57:40Speaker 02

  Lucy posts.

• 57:40Speaker 01

  I know. So 55 Ks in 50 states. Are you sore? Are you tired? How do you feel?

• 57:48Speaker 05

  I wasn't, I wasn't sore until like the very end, like throughout the days, like just like my dad, he's like, I'd have to get through this. So every time I didn't want to run, I just thought of my dad. And I didn't get sore until like the end when I stopped running. I'm like, oh yeah, I guess, I guess that that was kind of some work.

• 58:07Rich Roll?

  Are you gonna, are you gonna be like your dad now? You're gonna have like, uh, what's your next challenge gonna be?

• 58:11Speaker 05

  Um, I'm not sure.

• 58:12Rich Roll?

  The bar set high.

• 58:15Speaker 01

  Her next challenge is seventh grade.

• 58:18Speaker 05

  Um.

• 58:18Speaker 01

  Surviving junior high.

• 58:19Speaker 05

  If it's like athletic, most of it is like I do it based off of my dad does. So if it's gonna be something athletic, it'll most likely depend on what my dad does next. But I guess, yeah.

• 58:30Speaker 02

  Explain that so they know what you mean. I know what you mean.

• 58:32Speaker 05

  Okay, okay. So, um, when my dad does something, I do something in my own way that kind of, I don't know.

• 58:39Rich Roll?

  Like your version of that?

• 58:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, like you're my version of it. So I don't think my dad's gonna do anything crazier than this. So anything athletic, I'm just gonna have to wait and see. And then like.

• 58:49Speaker 01

  She, she loves to run and so she's, she's gonna start a, a cross-country team at her junior high school.

• 58:54Rich Roll?

  Oh, cool. I was gonna say, were you a runner before this?

• 58:56Speaker 05

  Um, I didn't do like cross-country or track or anything, but I did all the running things with my friend.

• 59:02Rich Roll?

  Uh-huh. And what was the experience like for you of being there for your dad and, and watching what your dad accomplished?

• 59:08Speaker 05

  Um, it was really cool. Um, I loved, I loved running the five K's with him because, um, normally he's home all the time. He works from home and so we didn't get to see him as much. So that forty-five minute five K, that was my time with him during the day. And then, um, I also carried his water. So I, so I loved it. Every time I run, every time I run, I'm like, dad, I need, I need to carry your water. So it was really fun.

• 59:30Rich Roll?

  That's cool. Are you glad to have your, your dad back now?

• 59:33Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yes.

• 59:35Rich Roll?

  I bet all of your, uh, your, your sisters and brothers think the same thing too.

• 59:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 59:40Rich Roll?

  Cool. So was it, was the experience what you thought it was gonna be like?

• 59:45Speaker 05

  Um, kind of, kind of not. A lot of states weren't exactly what you'd think they'd be. Like Alaska, it's not like snowing all the time, like, like Antarctica and like the west. Um, like nothing's like the wild, wild west sort of thing. So it is different, but a little similar. Like I didn't expect to be with my dad all the time and stuff.

• 1:00:03Rich Roll?

  Right. So how does it feel to be an inspirational figure now?

• 1:00:06Speaker 05

  Um, it's really cool. I'm just kinda, I just am kinda like the leader of my friend group. So it's kinda different to have like random people be like, I love your hashtag Lucy Post.

• 1:00:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, tell them about it.

• 1:00:16Speaker 05

  Okay, so, um.

• 1:00:18Rich Roll?

  You were like captain of the social media.

• 1:00:20Speaker 05

  Yeah, so me and my sister, we were the social media agents. She didn't really do it as much. It was, she just did her own page. I was doing it with my dad. So every time I posted on my dad's Instagram account, I did hashtag Lucy post. So that way everyone, every time I posted, people like, oh, his daughter posted that, not like someone random on the crew. So it was really cool to see all the people who actually noticed the hashtag Lucy posts. And then, um, um, and I do hashtag Lucy post, people like, um, that's really cool that you're running all the 5Ks. My five-year-old daughter is gonna run the one mile with me or something, something. So it's really cool to actually be inspiring.

• 1:00:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's awesome. Well, you did a great job.

• 1:01:00Speaker 05

  Thank you. Thank you.

• 1:01:02Rich Roll?

  Cool. I can't wait to see what you're gonna do next.

• 1:01:04Speaker 02

  Hashtag Lucy post.

• 1:01:05Speaker 05

  Hashtag Lucy post.

• 1:01:06Rich Roll?

  Keep rocking Lucy. Um, alright, so, uh, I want to, um, get into kind of some of the harder moments. I mean, what, what was the hardest state? What was the lowest moment? Or was there ever a moment where you thought, you know, this, this thing is in peril?

• 1:01:25Speaker 01

  Um, the, the first, the first real tough moment for me was Arizona. Um, it was race number seven and, uh,

• 1:01:34Speaker 01

  I, uh, I, I was having just a little bit of knee pain, nothing, nothing big. And I'm huge on, on, you know, preventing stuff instead of treating it later. And so I threw on some knee braces that I'd brought along that I'd never used before. And, um, and what it ultimately had happened is it cut the circulation off. Um, and so the, just the blood and, and everything just started to pool, um, from the knees down. And so for, for the last six miles, um, I was getting no, no blood flow, um, to, to the rest of my body. And so my, my body just kind of slowly started to shut down. And, um, you know, I developed, uh, pitting epidema.

• 1:02:17Rich Roll?

  Um, Explain what that is.

• 1:02:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just when the, just all the blood pools and, and nothing is circulating. Um, and so basically my calf and my, my shin, um, it was like a softball was in there. Everything was super, super hard. Um, just from lack of circulation.

• 1:02:33Rich Roll?

  Hmm.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  And, uh, And I just, I became completely out of it and unaware and I couldn't feel anything from the knees down. I mean, Aaron can and Casey can attest to how, you know, kind of dramatic it really was. And I finished that race just, I don't know how, but we did from the help of Casey and Aaron. And I remember taking off those knee braces and just went, there's no way I can start tomorrow. Like, there's just no way. I can't feel my legs.

• 1:03:04Speaker 02

  Did you know it was from the knee braces at that point?

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, we figured it out pretty quick. Dr. Dallas was there and he was like, no, that's exactly what caused it. We gotta get those off of you. And he diagnosed it really quick for exactly what it was. And I had those Normatec boots. And we threw those on and we let them run for four hours, four or five hours. And I just slept through the night just thinking, well, it's over, you know. We'll drive to the next state, but I can't even walk.

• 1:03:34Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  And woke up the next morning and it was completely gone.

• 1:03:38Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:03:38Speaker 01

  And I was just like, holy crap.

• 1:03:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's amazing. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Normatec boots work.

• 1:03:45Speaker 01

  Save me. I mean, that's just a huge plug for that.

• 1:03:48Rich Roll?

  That's an incredible turnaround.

• 1:03:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, you know, and then the other one was.

• 1:03:53Rich Roll?

  You slept in them all night?

• 1:03:55Speaker 01

  I did it for most of the campaign.

• 1:03:57Speaker 02

  A lot of nights.

• 1:03:58Speaker 01

  I would run them for.

• 1:03:58Speaker 02

  Almost every night.

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:59Rich Roll?

  Right. And for people that don't know, Normatec boots are these compression boots that are, they're, they have like industrial grade inflation, right? So they really put a lot of, they just basically inflate around your legs and your feet.

• 1:04:11Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:04:12Rich Roll?

  And what does that do? It just pushes the.

• 1:04:14Speaker 01

  It pushes, so it starts at the ankles and it just gets tight in compartmentalized fashion and it slowly moves all the blood up and out to the heart. And then it like releases and like brings in all this fresh new oxygenated blood. And so not only is it like flushing the toxins and the lactic acid and everything out, it's just circulating and bringing in that fresh blood.

• 1:04:34Rich Roll?

  Right. So did you sleep in those every single night after that?

• 1:04:36Speaker 01

  I did. It became a staple in my recovery thing and I would run them at least two hours every night.

• 1:04:45Rich Roll?

  Right. And so, so what was the kind of evening recovery protocol? Like, I know you had, so you had like sort of medical help, but not all the time, right? That guy wasn't there for you the entire?

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  No, he was only there four different times on the weekends. And then, and then my massage therapist came in two or three times.

• 1:05:03Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:05:03Speaker 01

  And then aside from that, it was just, you know, whenever Sonny had the energy to work on me. And then just, just in home tech boots and then sleep when we could and, and just, just food.

• 1:05:17Rich Roll?

  Right. So, I mean, you gotta bathe, you gotta get your kits washed, you know, like there's stuff that has to happen, right? Before you can hit the sack.

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, one of the challenges every night was finding a place for me to shower. And so that was, that was Erin and Casey's job.

• 1:05:32Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:05:33Speaker 01

  They had to have something lined up for me.

• 1:05:34Rich Roll?

  And that's super important because you can get infections like crazy.

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it was, I had to have that shower. Like, I was like, where am I showering tonight?

• 1:05:41Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:05:41Speaker 01

  And we, I mean, we would stop at, someone that was running with me that night ultimately lived a mile away and they're like, you can shower at my house. And so on the way out, we would, I'd quickly shower and use some random person's shower.

• 1:05:53Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:05:54Speaker 01

  We used, a couple of times we used 24 hour fitness or anytime, anytime fitness showers. Or someone had a membership and they'd let us in or?

• 1:06:02Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right. And how did you stay on top of saddle sores?

• 1:06:05Speaker 01

  Well, I just, I didn't really get any saddle sores. It was more the hemorrhoid area.

• 1:06:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it happens.

• 1:06:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it didn't happen until halfway through the campaign and it just became one of those things that I had to manage. Just, it just, it's there, you're gonna, you just have to deal with it. And it just became a matter of just managing that pain.

• 1:06:29Rich Roll?

  Hmm. Were you ever like, I can't sit down on the seat?

• 1:06:32Speaker 01

  Every day. Yeah, one of the roughest rides.

• 1:06:36Rich Roll?

  It's that thing like the first 20 miles are tough and then you kind of settle.

• 1:06:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, kind of. One of the worst rides I did was in New Jersey.

• 1:06:44Speaker 01

  It was a horrible day. Um, that, that, that state is one giant pothole. And what like just a million cracks in the road. And so I did most of that ride standing up. Yeah. Just because every little bump, I was just like, oh, good hell, you know? Right. It was just so painful. And, and one of the things that happened was is that you've got big, two big arteries or veins that run up the inside of both your legs. Um, and just from the rubbing on the seat, those had become inflamed. Um, and they eventually calmed down, but it was like, like New Jersey was inflamed. You know, in the saddle area, inflamed on the inner of each leg. And it was just so intense and just the worst road conditions. And I mean, that was what, that had to be one of my hardest bike rides.

• 1:07:29Speaker 02

  Those inner thigh veins like almost brought up to tears. What, like three days it probably lasted?

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:34Speaker 02

  I mean, like in your tears.

• 1:07:35Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:07:36Speaker 02

  Like he, it was hard to control that. It almost got him.

• 1:07:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:07:40Speaker 02

  They were bad.

• 1:07:47Speaker 01

  Let's go to the day when you crashed on the bike. Yeah, that would, that would be the second hardest day is Tennessee number 18. And, um, you know, that, that, that initial fatigue from those early, early states, we hadn't caught up on it yet. Um, and at that point, it didn't look like we were ever going to catch up on it. And during the bike ride portion was one of the mentally hardest things I had to do because I would inevitably at some point of the ride, I would start to get tunnel vision, like severe tunnel vision where I was just like falling asleep, like going out. And initially we didn't necessarily associate it with fatigue. We thought maybe, okay, is it? Why wouldn't you associate it with fatigue? That would seem to be the first thing you would associate it with.

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  We, we didn't know if it was something I was eating that my body was disagreeing with, or if it was the, the temperature that we were in.

• 1:08:38Speaker 02

  It was hot. It was hot.

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was hot. And, and we tried to figure out, okay, which days are you really starting to tunnel vision? We didn't know if it was, um, a sodium or potassium issue, something my body was missing. Um, but ultimately it was just overwhelming fatigue. And, um, it was 106 degrees outside. I was about mile 30. Um, and you know, my heart rate was about 103 on the bike, 103 to 108. Yeah, it's super. Super, super low. And, and you know, you get into those aero bars and you're looking at either the wheel in front of you or the asphalt and it's kind of like mesmerizing you a little bit. And when you're swimming and biking, you know, if you fall asleep, you know,

• 1:09:18Speaker 02

  Slow motion.

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  You know, anybody that says they've like fallen asleep running, that's like, well, you didn't, you you zoned out, you would have hit the ground.

• 1:09:25Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:09:26Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:09:26Rich Roll?

  I can't imagine you could fall asleep swimming.

• 1:09:28Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:09:29Rich Roll?

  Cycling, I can see, because it's happened to me, so I know what that's like.

• 1:09:32Speaker 01

  Because you can coast a little bit. And at that point of the of the campaign, I could literally fall asleep in three seconds, like, literally, three seconds. I mean, I fell asleep through an entire chiropractic adjustment. I'd fall asleep mid-sentence, I'd fall asleep mid-social media post. I mean, the crew would laugh at me just because I couldn't make it. Like, if I sat down, I was asleep. And so you, in Tennessee, it was 106 degrees, I'm exhausted, I got into the section, I'm, you know, I'm starting to tunnel and just, it had happened in the past where I'd started to like drift to one side, but I, you know, it's like when you're driving and you catch yourself and you wake yourself up. And then this one time, I just didn't catch myself. And and I fell down to the right and it was just, I went into the ditch.

• 1:10:16Speaker 01

  And had I been 10 seconds earlier or 10 seconds later, I would have just tumbled through the ditch, but I hit a driveway. And so it was, it was asphalt. And so hit my head really hard, got some good road rash, I mean, you can still see on my hands here where I hit the ground. And then the worst of it was on my hip. I started to, that's where I took the main impact. And because I have no fat on me, I mean, it was like bone and muscle just like crashing on the ground. And so that that that that began to plague me. And so

• 1:10:49Speaker 02

  Dullersitis on the hip.

• 1:10:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it filled up with fluid. So sleeping became very hard on that hip.

• 1:10:56Speaker 01

  And that was only 30 miles into the to that ride. And so I had to get back on my bike, finish that bike ride and then run a marathon that night, which we did.

• 1:11:03Rich Roll?

  It's really, but it's, but you don't, like, you kind of have a little bit of adrenaline, though, for that, like, it's more like the next day, right, when you wake up and it's super stiff.

• 1:11:11Speaker 02

  Those are words out of your mouth.

• 1:11:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was the next day because, you know, I got through the rest of that bike ride and I was like, holy crap, this is so cool, I crashed and I'm back on the bike and people are gonna like, talk about this. And and then I did, I ran that marathon that night and it was just like, oh, crap, this hurts and this is gonna suck, but it was. Not sleeping that night because like, you know, just the pain was, you know, the pain had set in like those endorphins from the crash and everything are gone.

• 1:11:33Speaker 04

  And you're in the back of the Subaru.

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that was, yeah, that was the night I had, we had a, I don't know why we're back there. It was a longer drive, longer drive, and so we had to put me in the back of the Subaru, which is, you know, no room to do anything in. Um, and then we had to get up the next day and do it. And, and when I woke up the next morning, I went, oh, man, this is not good.

• 1:11:52Rich Roll?

  Right. It's actually amazing. You only crashed once. I mean, how many times do you think you fell asleep and just the sheer, with that number of miles? Like, it's almost like, you know, if you statistically, you know, forget about falling asleep on the bike, like something's gonna happen and you're gonna tumble at least once. So.

• 1:12:09Speaker 01

  For sure. I, I was, I was relieved, um, that it only did happen once. And, and you know, when you get a lot of riders out there riding in some of the states that we had and you don't, you've never ridden with them before. And some people get excited and they're, you know, they're taking selfies right in front of you while riding.

• 1:12:22Rich Roll?

  You don't know how well they know how to ride.

• 1:12:24Speaker 01

  You know, and so I, I got, I got really good at just like putting my hand on people and like moving them out of the way. Or like I was very vocal too. I was like, I need some space. Like you cannot ride right here. Um, and we had, we had four or five other people crash, um, around me and one guy, one guy was pretty bad. Um, but yeah, we, you know, just to have that one mild tumble was, uh, was called lucky or call it whatever you want, fate.

• 1:12:49Speaker 02

  And he could have turned into traffic and fallen or he could have, could have been really bad. He was lucky. He fell to the correct side and, you know.

• 1:12:57Rich Roll?

  Was there ever a day where, you know, Aaron woke you up or Casey woke you up and you're like, can't do it, man. I don't know.

• 1:13:07Speaker 01

  Um, you know, every day it was just like they woke me up and I was like, holy crap. It's time again already, you know, just like.

• 1:13:13Rich Roll?

  Right. I mean, because you're probably, I mean, you're, you're probably lights out, like you said, in three seconds and then you're awake all of a sudden, right?

• 1:13:19Speaker 01

  Well, and, and they started having to wake me up early because it took so long to get me up. Like they would wake me up and give me food and I'd start eating and next thing you know, the food's on, on the side of my face and I'm asleep again. And, and you know, it seriously took an effort to get me up during those first 30. And once we got to the last 20 and I had, you know, maybe either.

• 1:13:40Speaker 02

  Once you're cutting down.

• 1:13:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. Once you're cutting down and I, and I had made a, a very conscious, you know, mental or physical shift at that point. Um, it became easier to woke me up and the crew, the crew kind of knew exactly when that moment was. And they could tell, okay, waking me up is not as big of an ordeal now. And I mean, there was even one day where I got up early and jumped in the pool and the crew was still in the motorhome sleeping and they all got mad at me because

• 1:14:04Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  It was so out of routine.

• 1:14:06Speaker 02

  It was Wisconsin.

• 1:14:07Speaker 01

  I was trying to surprise them. I was like, dude, I can get done with the swim before they even wake up. And so that was a lot of fun for me to do it, but I guess it pissed them all off.

• 1:14:15Speaker 02

  Threw off the routine.

• 1:14:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, it threw off the routine, but you know, waking up for me was was difficult in those early stages. Just because I was so out of it and yeah, you know, I had those, I did have those moments where I was like, I just, I just can't do it. And there was probably one moment, it wasn't in the morning. I think it was after a bike ride. It was after a bike ride and we were, it was Mississippi. We were all in the motorhome and it was just the four of us. And I remember coming in off the bike and getting in the motorhome and just laying there and I just broke into tears. And I just said, I just can't do this anymore.

• 1:14:47Speaker 02

  He fell asleep for just a little bit and we woke him up.

• 1:14:50Speaker 01

  And they woke me up and I just said, I just can't do this anymore.

• 1:14:52Rich Roll?

  So that was number what?

• 1:14:54Speaker 02

  Nineteen, about nineteen.

• 1:14:56Speaker 01

  No, it was after the Mississippi. It was the day after the bike crash.

• 1:15:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:00Speaker 02

  So seventeen.

• 1:15:01Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 1:15:02Speaker 02

  He was full on sobbing. Like we didn't even know what to do to console him.

• 1:15:06Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you're just, you're, you're, you're as raw and as, you know, connected to who you really are as you possibly can be. And I think that's, that's the allure of this kind of adventure, you know, and I know that that's a big driving force with you. Like, how do I, how do I really learn who I am? You know, how am I going to know what I'm about, what my limits are, you know? It's, and, and you made this choice to endure this, to try to answer that for yourself. So in looking back on it now, like, you know, can you articulate what it is that you've taken away from it? Like, was there a moment of self-discovery that is something that you can speak to?

• 1:15:49Speaker 01

  You know, just as far as like the, the raw.

• 1:15:54Speaker 01

  Personal side of it, it, you know, I haven't, I haven't come to grips with that yet. Um, just the, the sheer accomplishment and, and I'm realizing now, post-event, how, what type of place I had to take myself to. And, and the, I, I've been thinking all week, knowing that we're going to have this conversation. How do I articulate how I took myself to that place and, and what that place was like? Um, just because sitting here and, and that's why one of the, these guys here with me today was because there's moments that I don't remember, like I had to take myself to such a place that it was just like, just like this, like beast mode times whatever you want to times it by in order to survive and get through it.

• 1:16:39Speaker 01

  And, and like I said earlier, these guys can kind of identify or isolate when I made that switch to just like James to like the Iron Cowboy to where it was like, okay, this is his alter ego and he's out here to accomplish this. And, and it's now, it's now business.

• 1:16:59Rich Roll?

  Right. And, and when you're in it, there's no, there's no time for reflecting upon it.

• 1:17:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:03Rich Roll?

  You know, I would imagine only with time and distance will that become clear to you.

• 1:17:08Speaker 01

  And, and I will, I will say this, one of the, one of the things that I did take away from, from this whole journey is I,

• 1:17:16Speaker 01

  everybody served me, um, whether it was Casey or Aaron or Sonny or the film crew, or complete strangers that, that I didn't know that just stepped up to the plate. That's a, it was, it was amazing. Every single day on the bike portion or on the run, somebody owned, just like manned up and said, I'm your guardian today without saying it. And, and they, they just, they just rose up in every single one of the states. There was just some, some dude that was just like. I'm it. Like, I'm

• 1:17:47Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:17:48Speaker 01

  I'm your guardian today. And it was just super cool. And, and for me, the biggest takeaway, I mean, I'm, I'm sitting on the other side of this now, just going, man, how, how can I serve somebody else? You know, I, I, I learned how to accept that, just that, that role of accepting and how to take that, just, just take that love and take that, what they wanted to give me. And I wish I could just like bottle this feeling, because I don't want to lose that, you know what I mean? And if I start to lose that, I just want to open that bottle and just like take a sniff and be like, okay, that's the guy that I want to be. And for me, it was just like, like right now, I'm just like, who can I serve and what, what can I give them? You know, how, how can I give them everything? And, and that's what I don't want to lose. And that, that's my hope.

• 1:18:32Speaker 01

  Is that everybody can have that same experience of being just that, just being served and learning that lesson of how to accept service. Does that make sense?

• 1:18:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think, you know, we talk a lot about giving and being in service, but I think it's, it's difficult to receive it, you know, and I think it's, I think it's hard for men to, maybe, maybe a little bit harder for women in general, you know, to whether it's accepting help or admitting that you need help or being on the receiving end of, of love, you know, I think that's a, that's a powerful, that's a, that's a powerful lesson. And that was beautiful how you said that, man.

• 1:19:13Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 1:19:13Rich Roll?

  I appreciate that. When you're in the, when you're kind of, when you're in your alter ego and you are the iron cowboy and you have the blinders on and, you know, the peripheral vision kind of goes away and you're in the zone. Now, how are you occupying yourself mentally through so many hours where, you know, even if people are running or, or riding with you, you know, you're, you're kind of on your own. You know, what's going through your mind?

• 1:19:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's weird. You, you have, or I had so much think tank time out there. You know, just so much.

• 1:19:50Rich Roll?

  That's not always so good.

• 1:19:51Speaker 01

  No, it's not. It's not. I just, you know, you, you either, you either punish yourself with the things you've done wrong in your life. Or you, you fill your mind with things that you want to do right and things you want to change. And I just did just so much thinking and I went through all of the scenarios as far as like, okay, what do I want to do? You know, the biggest and horrible question I got every day was what's next? And, and I didn't want to articulate it to anybody because I was so like hyper focused on the next step. Yeah, what's next is getting to the next lamppost. Yeah, exactly. And people, and people just couldn't get that. And, uh, but for me, that, that's kind of what I thought about all day long is like, okay, I'm very present,

• 1:20:36Speaker 01

  but I need, you know, what is next? And what's next for my family? And, and you know, what am I going to do to set, to continue to set the best example I can for my kids? And I mean, you know, we were criticized for doing this in June and July, the hottest months of the year. Um, but there was no way I was doing this without my, my family. Um, and hopefully people that, that really followed us, um, could see that family is obviously everything to us. And, uh, you know, for me to, to know that my kids were going to be there at the finish line was everything to me. Like I knew that they were, they were in the state. And if, even if they weren't there, I knew that they were, you know, close

• 1:21:17Speaker 01

  by. And, uh, one of the highlights of every day was that 5K with Lucy. Um, that was really my one-on-one time with my family. Even though it was just the one member of the family, it was still that represented time with my family. Um, so that, you know, that, that 5K was super special. Um, and just to get, you know, to get through the day, I mean, I thought of everything. Like, I, I, I know who I am exactly. Like, like there's no, there's no question. Like, So who are you? Yeah. I'm a, I mean, I'm just James. Uh, I, I, I'm just James. Is there a difference between James and the Iron Cowboy? There, there is. Um, and, and I think it's, I think that's ultimately why I'm, why

• 1:22:00Speaker 01

  I was so successful is, um, you know, my, my bike kit or whatever I put on that day for athletics was like my Superman cape. And it was my alter ego. And, and when I put that outfit on, um, he knew what his job was.

• 1:22:19Speaker 01

  And, and, uh, and when I take it off, I'm just James.

• 1:22:23Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:22:23Speaker 01

  And I, and I just wanna be a father to my kids and a husband to Sonny. And that's, that's who ultimately I am. And, uh, so that was really cool for me because I can, it's fun to be able to flip that switch and for lack of a better word, be a superhero.

• 1:22:38Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:22:39Speaker 01

  Um, but to do what I did, it took flipping that switch and putting on that, that uniform.

• 1:22:45Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:22:46Speaker 01

  But I mean, even, I mean, the-

• 1:22:48Rich Roll?

  Do you feel now you can kind of flip that switch off? And you're at home and you're with your family. Is there, like, what is the emotional experience of that? Is it relief? Is it elation? Is it contentment?

• 1:23:03Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm content. Um, you know, aside from, you know, and I hope we get into this a little bit if we have time, but aside from, you know, all of the negativity that was out there, um, I know exactly why we did this and I know exactly who I am. I know who my wife is. I know who my crew is. Um, and I know why we did this. And, um, I wouldn't take back one moment out there.

• 1:23:27Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm. So let's talk about the negativity a little bit. There was a little online grumbling, a little, you know, sort of, uh, you know, some negative arrows that were thrown your way. I guess it came, I mean, I didn't really pay attention to it. In fact, it was funny, like, when I was running the marathon with you and then I kind of opted out to go talk to your documentary guys. They were like, you know, what do you think of the, you know, some of the things that were being said? And I was like, I don't even know. I didn't even, I wasn't even aware of it.

• 1:23:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:56Rich Roll?

  But I guess there was some, some mud kicked up over the fact that you had to run one of the marathons on an elliptical trainer.

• 1:24:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:03Rich Roll?

  And that turned into elliptigate.

• 1:24:05Speaker 01

  Elliptigate.

• 1:24:05Rich Roll?

  So what happened? What was the big deal here?

• 1:24:08Speaker 01

  Well, so, um, after that crash in Tennessee, which was number 18, um, I was also dealing with, um, just an incredibly painful toe.

• 1:24:19Speaker 01

  And so it was a combination of a few things. It was the crash and the stiffness of that. We were already pushed inside that day because of a hurricane. And so we, we did the swim and I, and I experienced some pretty severe cramping that day in the water and then Sunny was just livid because she went somewhere and came back and I was, I was asleep in the motorhome. Um, just devastated from, from the day before and and the cramping in the pool. And so we were just so far behind schedule. And we finally got me on the bike and um, just tried to loosen up that hip and get it going. And then I called my coach and it was time to do the, the marathon run.

• 1:25:02Speaker 01

  And I called my coach and I said, hey, what do you think about if we did, did the marathon on the elliptical? Um, just to, because in my mind, it was like, what's, what's the overall goal here? And the goal was to cover 146, 140.6 miles every day. And to accomplish 50 in order to raise money for the charity. And to continue to empower people. And the option was, quit, you know? Or jeopardize that bigger goal.

• 1:25:34Speaker 02

  It was more about problem solving.

• 1:25:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:37Speaker 02

  Nobody was even thinking that it mattered.

• 1:25:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:25:40Speaker 02

  The thing. So we didn't realize it was going to have such a huge impact. It was like, okay, we have this problem. Let's come up with a solution. That was the thinking. So this was the solution that James came up with.

• 1:25:52Rich Roll?

  I mean, matter to who though? You know what I mean?

• 1:25:54Speaker 02

  That's the thing is we didn't know.

• 1:25:55Rich Roll?

  It only matters to you.

• 1:25:57Speaker 02

  We didn't know it would create such an uproar. Like we didn't see.

• 1:26:00Rich Roll?

  So I suppose that it would, it would disqualify you from like the Guinness Book thing, right? But that's not really what this was about.

• 1:26:07Speaker 01

  Well, here, here's the reality of the situation is that media is the one that said it was a Guinness Book. This was never a Guinness record.

• 1:26:14Speaker 02

  We've done Guinness twice. We know what it takes to do Guinness.

• 1:26:16Rich Roll?

  Yeah, to do Guinness, you gotta have people on, on site the whole time.

• 1:26:19Speaker 02

  You have to apply before.

• 1:26:21Rich Roll?

  You gotta pay them a ton of money.

• 1:26:22Speaker 01

  They have to be official events.

• 1:26:23Speaker 02

  Like we've done this before.

• 1:26:25Speaker 01

  And what these were, this was a 50 day campaign in order to raise awareness for the cause. And to test myself physically and mentally. And, and, and some, for some reason, this, this elite group out there, um,

• 1:26:40Speaker 02

  Felt betrayed.

• 1:26:41Speaker 01

  Just felt betrayed in that I didn't.

• 1:26:43Rich Roll?

  By elite group, are we talking about the slow twitch forums?

• 1:26:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:49Speaker 02

  We're gonna assume, we're gonna assume it's an elite group.

• 1:26:51Rich Roll?

  That bastion of positivity.

• 1:26:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, so and what they, and what they said is that I had disrespected the, the people that had gone before me. And I'm like, I don't know these people that had gone before me and.

• 1:27:02Rich Roll?

  Well, first of all, no one's ever tried to do what you've done before.

• 1:27:04Speaker 01

  Right. And so they were, they were, they were assumed, they, they wanted me to follow this, this, this rulebook.

• 1:27:10Speaker 02

  That didn't exist.

• 1:27:11Speaker 01

  Didn't exist. And, and it was, it was the rulebook and the perception that they had come up with in their mind. And it wasn't anything close to what, what we were trying to accomplish.

• 1:27:22Speaker 02

  Well, and we felt like it lacked a little bit of humanity. It's like, here's this guy is doing this crazy thing, falls asleep on his bikes, crashes, comes up with a solution to a problem, like no one cared about James's condition. All they cared about was what they had decided he should be doing.

• 1:27:39Rich Roll?

  From, from the comfort of their cubicle.

• 1:27:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:42Rich Roll?

  From their laptop or whatever.

• 1:27:44Speaker 02

  From the hidden screen.

• 1:27:45Speaker 01

  And here's the thing is, is, is I was willing to take that criticism to achieve the higher goal, which was to continue to empower people. And, and if, if, if, if anyone out there could see just the overwhelming positivity that comes through our, our Facebook and our email every day with just the overwhelming incredible stories. I mean, it was, I have no regrets about continuing and doing it the way that I did and that. And, and, and I, and I totally could have run and I probably would have been fine and the campaign would have gone on. Um, but the reality is, is, you know, to those guys, I, I thought about this a lot because I knew this was gonna, this was gonna be a question. And, and the reality is, is look, I did 18 consecutive Ironmans.

• 1:28:28Speaker 01

  I crashed on my bike. I ran the marathon that day. I woke up the next morning, I swam 2.4 miles. I biked 112 more. And then. Now I want you to come down and join me and let's have a six hour conversation on an elliptical and see how you feel. And then I got up the next day and I did 32 more full Ironmans. So criticize all you want, man. But and if you really want to talk about it, come to Utah and we'll have a six hour conversation.

• 1:28:59Rich Roll?

  Right. I mean, how did that even, how did it even get, get on your radar? I mean, did, did somebody email you guys or like, oh, your coach will email you back? Yeah, yeah.

• 1:29:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. We don't, we've never.

• 1:29:09Rich Roll?

  The upshot is stay off those slow twitch forums.

• 1:29:12Speaker 02

  He just said this needs to be addressed. We're like, what needs to be addressed? Like, we had no idea.

• 1:29:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I, and I've never read it, uh, read the, the forums and.

• 1:29:20Speaker 02

  Nor will we.

• 1:29:21Speaker 01

  Nor will we.

• 1:29:22Rich Roll?

  I, I don't, yeah, I have a policy about not being on, I don't go to that forum. So I haven't even, I didn't, it's not like in researching for today, I looked at it, I won't look at it.

• 1:29:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and for me, I am a hundred percent confident and satisfied with what we did. We covered, like I said, 140.6 in 50 consecutive days. Throughout 50 states and it was an unbelievable experience and I wouldn't change a thing.

• 1:29:47Rich Roll?

  Was there other controversy? Or was that, was it mainly ellipticate?

• 1:29:52Speaker 02

  Really? Does anybody even know about the other controversy?

• 1:29:56Speaker 01

  Nah, I mean, that was, that was probably the biggest one. Um, there was just, there was some just. Just stupid stuff about the charity and how, um, you know, there was a couple of people that thought we were stealing from the charity for some reason. Um, when if you link, if you click on our website, it goes directly to Jamie Oliver. Jamie Oliver took their time, um. In fully endorsing us.

• 1:30:18Speaker 02

  Like six weeks.

• 1:30:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so, so we had.

• 1:30:21Speaker 02

  After they committed.

• 1:30:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:23Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I know you had a little bit of a struggle trying to find the right charity to begin with that you wanted to get behind.

• 1:30:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, we did and we partnered with them just because I love Jamie Oliver's message and what he stands for. They're just such a big organization and then so there's just a lot of red tape and they want to do things the right way. And so they agreed early on to do it, but there was just some red tape we had to get through. And so there was just some criticism early on that, you know, we didn't have our ducks in a row and that we were just pocketing this money.

• 1:30:51Speaker 02

  So far as the money, go all the way to sponsors, people contacting the sponsors.

• 1:30:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, which is just so ridiculous and completely, I mean, they don't have proof of anything.

• 1:31:01Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:31:01Speaker 01

  And we have every record showing that we've donated every dollar.

• 1:31:05Speaker 02

  It's all itemized, right, on our online?

• 1:31:08Rich Roll?

  Because you're the organized one.

• 1:31:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, Jamie Oliver Foundation actually had to call some people and tell them, no, look, they've given us every dollar.

• 1:31:16Speaker 02

  They still continue to say stupid things.

• 1:31:19Rich Roll?

  And on a personal level, I mean, he, you know, he's been support, I mean, he's been Instagramming a few times.

• 1:31:23Speaker 01

  He did, yeah, which is fantastic for us because I mean, I don't plan on stopping and we've got creative ways to continue to raise money for his foundation. And I said it from the very beginning, my goal is to raise a million dollars. Whether I did that in the 50 days or whether I did that over the next 10 years, that's still a goal of mine. And I'm 100% with the goals that I've set out to do and so I fully plan on making good on this one, too.

• 1:31:47Rich Roll?

  So what's the plan in terms of continuing to fundraise? Like, how's that going to work?

• 1:31:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're going to do.

• 1:31:53Speaker 02

  Do it. Make them wait.

• 1:31:56Rich Roll?

  Make them wait.

• 1:31:57Speaker 01

  No. Well, just a real simple one is I'm going to go speak in schools.

• 1:32:01Speaker 02

  We can't tell them everything, babe.

• 1:32:03Speaker 01

  We're going to do.

• 1:32:04Rich Roll?

  Oh, big shocker, he's going to go talk in schools. Of course he is.

• 1:32:08Speaker 01

  We're going to go talk in schools and corporations and we're going to do fundraisers inside those schools and then do some corporate matching. And we're going to run some Iron Cowboy events here locally and some virtual stuff through the country and all the proceeds and everything. And through some of the website sales and stuff that we do and all my sponsors, for example, we're going to put up on Monday a Rudy Project 40% off week-long thing and all that money is going to go to the charity. And so all of the sponsors are stepping up and saying, hey, look, we love what you do, we want to continue to help you raise money and we're going to donate a portion of sales to it. And so, you know, I've got great sponsors and so great sponsors, great products, we sell them, we make more money for the charity. So there's 10 different ways that we're going to do it and.

• 1:32:53Speaker 01

  There's some fun ones that you don't know about.

• 1:32:55Rich Roll?

  And it's gotta be gratifying. It's been cool to watch just in the last two days how how finally the national media, you know, has kind of caught on to this. I mean, you were on Fox, you were on Fox, Fox News, that was national, right?

• 1:33:07Speaker 01

  It was national.

• 1:33:08Rich Roll?

  You did Fox Australia, is that what you were doing?

• 1:33:11Speaker 01

  There were, there were a couple, a couple of different morning shows in Australia where I had to be in Salt Lake at eight thirty at night for their morning show.

• 1:33:18Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:33:18Speaker 01

  Um, and then I just got a, a text right before we started that, uh, Fox Sports Radio Show wants to do a half hour spot with me. And so that's, that's really cool.

• 1:33:25Rich Roll?

  That's great, man. It's awesome. I don't want to be the only guy in the media covering you guys, you know? Thank God, you know, like they're, they're finally figuring it out. Cause I, you know, when I was walking around the, the base camp, I'm like, where's the Today Show? Where's Good Morning America? Where's ESPN? Like, why isn't, why isn't anybody here to actually cover it? I mean, you had local affiliates and stuff like that.

• 1:33:46Speaker 01

  It's crazy. I want, I want to have a conversation with Dean, cause that guy's been on every show on the planet. I want to know how he does it.

• 1:33:52Rich Roll?

  Dean, oh, Dean Hernandez.

• 1:33:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, like how does that?

• 1:33:54Rich Roll?

  Yeah, he, I mean, but it took him many, many years. You know what I mean? He had, he had like a resume of other crazy stuff that he had done. So that by the time it came to him doing that, running across the US, he had all this street cred, you know? So I think it, a lot of it is just that this was the first super crazy thing that you had done. And so no one, you know, it's like, it's a big ask to, to get people on board with that idea.

• 1:34:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:15Rich Roll?

  When it's such a question mark, you know what I mean? So, but they're all happy to pat you on the back once you've finished. You know what I mean? Once the work is done, so.

• 1:34:24Speaker 01

  We saw a lot of that.

• 1:34:24Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it, but it's cool. I'm, I'm really glad for you that the message is getting out in that way. It's great.

• 1:34:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. And what, what's, what's more important to me is, um, obviously national recognition is, is fun.

• 1:34:38Speaker 01

  But what's fun for me is the, the message that we're getting from like global, like all corners of the earth. Like, it's way cool on my Facebook page to get those private messages, um, just from individuals. Um, and, and also we've set up, uh, we've set up a dedicated email address. It's called [email protected]. And anybody that wants to share their story with us, um, if you've been inspired or

• 1:35:02Speaker 01

  Or have done anything that you, just anything to share anything with us. It's uh, you can, you can email us at that web.

• 1:35:08Rich Roll?

  That's awesome. Yeah, very cool.

• 1:35:09Speaker 01

  It's iron cowboy inspired at gmail.com.

• 1:35:12Rich Roll?

  Yeah, cool. And I'll put that in the show notes for people so they can, they can dial that up. That's great. Um, yeah, I feel like uh, this really was a social media experiment. You know, when you guys started, uh, how many people did you have on your Facebook page? Eight thousand. Eight thousand or something like that?

• 1:35:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then we're.

• 1:35:30Rich Roll?

  You're at like sixty.

• 1:35:31Speaker 01

  Sixty something.

• 1:35:32Rich Roll?

  Sixty something. So you were picking up like a thousand to fifteen hundred people a day in the last month. You know, it was crazy. And meanwhile, no television coverage. You know, I don't know what it was like when you're in the various states. Maybe there were some local TV stuff, but on a national scale, nobody knew what was going on, you know? And this was really playing out on Twitter and Facebook and people from all over the world were gravitating to your page. And I know from my personal experience and some of my friends, like I'd call them, like they're not even athletes. And they're like, yeah, my aunt, you know, in wherever called me and said, do you know about this Iron Cowboy guy? And like, you know, so people were like people that have no relationship to sport, let alone triathlon.

• 1:36:14Speaker 01

  That was one of the coolest things.

• 1:36:15Rich Roll?

  What was happening as it was playing out. And it really was this thing where every, I mean, I know that I was, and I know lots of other people, like when I woke up in the morning and opened up my laptop, like first thing, Iron Cowboy page, what's going on? Where is he? Is he alive? You know, it was like, it was like a reality show. He's starting. He's starting today.

• 1:36:34Speaker 01

  And that was, that was the.

• 1:36:35Rich Roll?

  Did you have a sense of that?

• 1:36:36Speaker 01

  You know, I was in this giant bubble. Um, and I started to get a sense of it probably between forty and fifty. And it was, it was during one of those states that I can't remember which one, but there was a sixty year old lady that showed up at the pool. And uh, and she just said, I just want to swim fifty meters with you. I was like, that's so cool. I'm like, you know, because I respect my elders and I'm like, this woman who is just like wise in her life.

• 1:37:05Rich Roll?

  Right. She's not on the slow twitch forum.

• 1:37:07Speaker 01

  She's not and she's, you know, she's, she's, she's out, she's outside of that triathlon world that, that we've crossed over into. And I just thought, man, this is the coolest thing. And so she jumped in my lane. And I just swam, I just matched her stroke and we swam 50 meters together. And I, I gave her a hug and she got out of the pool and I finished my swim.

• 1:37:26Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:37:26Speaker 01

  Um, but it was just a real cool moment for me to just say, oh man, this lady just wants to swim 50 meters with me and, and that impacted her day.

• 1:37:34Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:37:34Speaker 01

  Which is cool.

• 1:37:35Rich Roll?

  That's cool. Um, but there had to be, was there like a strategy about how you were trying to tell the story online? Like who was responsible for making sure that pictures were going up online? And I mean, because you knew like people are waiting, they want to know. I mean, you know, Aaron, Casey, were you guys doing that? I mean, I know, you know, Lucy's on it.

• 1:37:52Speaker 01

  So initially during that first week, um, it was just so chaotic and we, we had someone that we thought was going to be doing that, that for us and they completely dropped the ball, um, on that. And we had sponsors that were calling in that were upset.

• 1:38:05Speaker 02

  Friends are home yelling at us like, what are you talking about?

• 1:38:07Speaker 01

  And then we just had, we just had no idea. And people were like, what is going on out there? People want to know. And then.

• 1:38:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Early on, you guys were spotty.

• 1:38:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally.

• 1:38:15Speaker 02

  We thought it was being handled.

• 1:38:16Speaker 01

  It was being handled and we had no idea. And then all of a sudden, everybody just said, what's your login? And, and then we just created these like little tiny teams and, and it, it actually worked out so incredible because we created these other storylines. I mean, the wingman got this following of their own.

• 1:38:34Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:38:34Speaker 01

  And people that, that were.

• 1:38:35Rich Roll?

  Mythic.

• 1:38:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, they were just like, like people like.

• 1:38:39Rich Roll?

  They're wearing like grass vibes right now.

• 1:38:43Speaker 01

  But I mean, it just became like, what are the wingman going to do next? And so that became something that people tuned in for.

• 1:38:48Rich Roll?

  What are the wingman going to do next?

• 1:38:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then, yeah, exactly. We should talk about that. And then it became like, it's like, what's Sunny's perspective, what she's doing? And then hashtag Lucy post and then, and then people were waiting to, you know, and then, and then, and then Dr. Dallas's messages. People really loved to, to get his perspective, what was going on. And then, and then, and then Rivers came in halfway through.

• 1:39:09Rich Roll?

  Tell everybody who Rivers is.

• 1:39:10Speaker 02

  So now we're getting eight posts a day, right?

• 1:39:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, and Rivers is, uh, an, an ultra sponsored athlete like I am. And, um, and he came out just. Just to say, you know what, I'm Just to help. Just to help and I've got your back and he was

• 1:39:23Rich Roll?

  He's like an elite marathoner.

• 1:39:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:24Rich Roll?

  Ironman athlete, lives in Flagstaff, trains there.

• 1:39:27Speaker 01

  He's a 220, you know, marathoner and just, just a really cool guy. And, and I met him in Arizona and he did the, did kind of the day with me. Um, and he just had like massive doubts that I could do this and He did it on a mountain bike, by the way. Yeah. He biked with James in Flagstaff on a mountain. And about halfway, about halfway through our ride together in Flagstaff, he was like, no, I think this guy's got it. And, um, and, but he needs my help. And so he called Ultra and Ultra said, yeah, okay, go out there.

• 1:39:53Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:39:53Speaker 01

  And he became, you know, Ultra's social media guy out there. Um, and really became, you know, He was delightful. He became my confidant out there.

• 1:40:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah, he was cool. I spent a lot of time with him.

• 1:40:04Speaker 01

  And so he started doing just these like really deep blogs about what was going on with me because he probably had the best. First ten. Yeah, he had the best seat in the house because he would come out and ride with me or run with me. Um, and he would, he would really see my vulnerabilities and I would open up to him and we had some great conversations and, and so he was able to come back and really articulate the emotion that was going on out there. And so people started to gravitate towards his blog and what he was saying. And so, you know, about, about that moment is when we had the Wingman became popular and the Rivers blog became, became really, um, well respected.

• 1:40:42Speaker 01

  And David, my coach, David Warden, his, his blog was getting some great attention and now we're starting to click with some great social media and people were engaged with Sonny's side of it. And, and so it just became, you know,

• 1:40:54Rich Roll?

  The real people.

• 1:40:54Speaker 01

  Kind of got it together.

• 1:40:55Rich Roll?

  The real people sharing honestly, you know, so there's an authenticity there, you know, that's

• 1:40:59Speaker 01

  And people could start to feel that, yeah.

• 1:41:01Rich Roll?

  Right. And I think that's what created that like emotional connection where people were really locked in. You know, it was really cool. So when you were in the, you know, when you were having those vulnerable moments, um, you know, what are, what are some of the tools or, you know, what was the facility that you tried to employ to, you know, just get to the next lamppost? Like what kind of mental tricks did you have to play on yourself? Like, I think people who are listening want to know, like, when the rubber was meeting the road and, and you were, you know, having these dark times, like, how did you break past that?

• 1:41:36Speaker 01

  Um, I think once I switched over to the Iron Cowboy, you know, about halfway through where it was that alter ego. Um, I no longer had to You know, I didn't have to, I didn't have to do those moments. It just became, that's today's task. And it was just, it didn't, it didn't matter at that point.

• 1:41:53Rich Roll?

  But that's easy to say, you know, that's easy to say, like, like, how did that actually work? You know what I mean? Like, like when you're, when it's, you know, late at night and, you know, the peripheral vision is closing down and you just want to lay on the pavement and fall asleep in three seconds. How are you, how are you getting through that next mile? Or when you're on Ironman 30 and you can celebrate that, but you also realize you got 20 more. How do you like, how do you grapple with that mentally?

• 1:42:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, I don't know how to articulate that yet.

• 1:42:28Rich Roll?

  That's okay. I'm not, you don't, you don't have to.

• 1:42:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:31Rich Roll?

  I'm just interested in.

• 1:42:33Speaker 01

  It, it's one of those, it's one of those things that I, that I turned into a bit of a zombie out there. Um, and I don't remember a lot, like you said, but especially, you know, 30 through 50.

• 1:42:46Speaker 01

  Just because it became, it became so overwhelming that that was the task at hand. And I, I've said it, but it's, it's my kids.

• 1:42:59Speaker 01

  They, they literally drove me to the finish line every day.

• 1:43:03Rich Roll?

  If your family had not joined you on this trip, do you think you still could have done it?

• 1:43:12Speaker 01

  I would have found, yes, only because I would have found a way to involve them in my mind. Did it make it a hundred times easier because they were there? Absolutely.

• 1:43:26Speaker 01

  Whether they were there in person or in spirit, they would have still been there and that would have still been my driving force.

• 1:43:34Speaker 01

  So yeah, and the, it was being accomplished either way.

• 1:43:40Rich Roll?

  There's a weird thing that happens when somebody does something extraordinary where the reaction to it is to celebrate it, but then also perhaps because it's difficult for people to wrap their brain around doing something like that, the next impulse is to say, "Well, he's just a freak of nature."

• 1:43:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:00Rich Roll?

  You know what I mean? So you start out as, you know, "I'm not a professional athlete. I'm an everyman. I'm a guy just like you. I got kids. I'm married." And somehow that gets lost in the results.

• 1:44:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:13Rich Roll?

  And then you're like written off as somebody who's different from everybody else.

• 1:44:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's... And I don't know where to draw that line. Because, I mean, we've done every physical test. I'm like, "There's nothing like outstanding about me." Like, across all levels, like my VO2...

• 1:44:33Rich Roll?

  But there is. But there is in the sense that...

• 1:44:35Speaker 01

  I think it's something that's not measurable.

• 1:44:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:38Speaker 01

  I don't think there's a test out there that can test it. I'm just saying like...

• 1:44:42Rich Roll?

  Right. You're not going to get on a treadmill and show numbers that, "Oh, you got a Lance Armstrong type VO2 max or something like that."

• 1:44:48Speaker 01

  Exactly. And so like any physical test that can be run on me, like I'm just as average playing Joe American as you can. And I think that's what, if I could bottle it, I'd be a millionaire. Whatever that thing that we're trying to identify right now, like what is it? What is it that separates me, that allowed me to do that? I don't know if it's the holy grail of a question that we're trying to figure out. I don't know if I have the answer or if Sonny has the answer.

• 1:45:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, so where does the drive come from? Where does the focus come from? What's fueling this? Like where... When you first had the idea to do this, what's behind that?

• 1:45:24Speaker 01

  I just thought it'd be fun, man. I like... Like, I mean, I said in the first podcast that I wanted to find my mental and physical strength, and you said, "Oh, you're gonna find it."

• 1:45:33Rich Roll?

  And you did, yeah.

• 1:45:35Speaker 01

  Absolutely, I did. I mean, there's, there's no question. There was.

• 1:45:38Rich Roll?

  Although you could have done another, you looked pretty good when you were finished with 50. You could have gotten up the next day and done another one.

• 1:45:43Speaker 01

  Absolutely, I could have. There's, there's no question. I mean, sitting here, one week removed, it's like, man, how did I do that? But when you're in the moment and you have to get a job done, had someone said, "Hey, you know, you gotta do that again tomorrow," I'd be like, "Oh, this sucks, but okay, I can do it." And I, and I probably could have kept going. And who knows? I, I joked and tortured myself. Like, the ultimate test would have been, "Okay, the goal's not 50, 50, 50. It's how many Ironmans until you stop."

• 1:46:11Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:46:12Speaker 01

  You know, and I was just like, what, like, like to really find your.

• 1:46:14Rich Roll?

  Is that what's next?

• 1:46:15Speaker 01

  No, it's not. But like, that's, that's truly, that's the breaking point. Like, well, how many? Like, well, how many is it?

• 1:46:21Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:21Speaker 01

  It wasn't 50.

• 1:46:22Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:46:23Speaker 01

  You know, and I'm, I'm not saying by any stretch of the imagination that was easy. And I, and I walked through 50. But it's like, well, what, what is the number? Like, what is it? And is, was, did I make it through 50 just because mentally that's what I said I was going to do? And that's why I made 50?

• 1:46:47Speaker 01

  But, you know, you know, back to the, back to the thing that, that, you know, people say that I'm special or have a gift, or I'm not average.

• 1:46:57Speaker 01

  I, I don't, I don't know what it is.

• 1:47:00Speaker 01

  I'm, I guess I'm still trying to figure out how I did that and, and what it was that allowed me to do that. And I think it's, man, it's a space between your ears. I mean, that's what it has to come down to because there's no test out there that, that can quantify what that is. And, and that's what I've been trying to figure out how to articulate, is the space that I occupied and, and what it really took for me to accomplish that.

• 1:47:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, to be determined, I guess.

• 1:47:34Rich Roll?

  Maybe Aaron or Casey can weigh in on this, like if you had to articulate what makes James special.

• 1:47:41Speaker 01

  I, I, I think, I think they probably have a unique perspective and even, I think even Sunny should weigh in on this because it, when you, I mean, you know, you, you've accomplished big things and you're rich and you just go out and you do it and I'm James and I just go out and I do it and for us, it's not like, I, I still don't, I still don't understand the enormity of what we did. I'm told it was big. You know, I'm told that that was one of the biggest human athletic feats that's this world has ever seen, but to me, I'm just like, no, it can't be. I mean, it's just like, I'm, I'm just James, right? And so I, I mean, I love and respect these guys. I'd be interested to hear, you know, what they say, or if they even have anything to say.

• 1:48:23Rich Roll?

  What do you think?

• 1:48:25Rich Roll?

  This is Aaron.

• 1:48:27Speaker 02

  Wingman One is what we call him.

• 1:48:29Rich Roll?

  And I'm going to try to take you seriously, even though you're basically sitting next to me naked in a grass.

• 1:48:34Speaker 04

  We got our plant-based fetos going on.

• 1:48:38Speaker 04

  But

• 1:48:41Speaker 04

  what I really love about James is just

• 1:48:45Speaker 04

  how

• 1:48:47Speaker 04

  I don't know if we even have words for it, but it's just basically the guy is, he just has this love for everyone. I mean, he wants to help you out. He wants to do everything for you. And so he's just like an ordinary guy. That's kind of what he's trying to say. But in the end, he wasn't trying to get any kind of recognition for this. Like, if he would have had like two people at the finish, he would have been happy. I mean, he didn't care if there's a million people there or one person. He is just out there doing his thing and he just wanted to finish. And he just wanted, he just had the main goal of this, the child obesity. I think that was kind of his driving thing because he wanted to bring awareness for the cause.

• 1:49:31Rich Roll?

  Right. And, and what did you learn about, uh, about yourself? Or what did you take away from the experience of supporting James in this mission?

• 1:49:45Speaker 04

  The biggest thing I learned is this, anything's only as impossible as you really think it is. And that doesn't matter what other people say, it doesn't matter what the world views. But if you have a goal, it's only dumb if you don't believe in it.

• 1:50:01Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, that was one of the things that came up in our first podcast that you had said, which is, doesn't matter what your goal is. Like, if you don't have total conviction and belief in it, it doesn't matter. Right? What about you, Casey?

• 1:50:18Speaker 03

  Uh, the thing I got learned from James is just the conviction aspect of it. Uh, cuz if you're not gonna be, if you're not convinced yourself that you can do it, you're not going to. Luckily, we didn't have to worry about the failure aspect of it. But I think a lot of people shy away from things because of failure and not, not seeing failure as a positive thing. And, um, in teaching, uh, failure is actually a great thing. Just from the experience I've had over these years of teaching is that when you fail, that's when you find out where your weakness lies and then you can make that a strength. Uh, I'm glad we didn't have to go through that at all.

• 1:50:57Speaker 03

  But it was, it was cool just to see his, um, determination, really. Um, a lot of people don't have that conviction, I guess is what it comes down to.

• 1:51:08Rich Roll?

  Sonny, what do you think? What'd you learn about your husband? Also, I'm also curious, uh, about, uh, how your kids took it when they would see their dad like in bad shape or like super tired. Was that ever scary for them?

• 1:51:24Speaker 02

  No, they laughed.

• 1:51:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:27Speaker 02

  There's something about seeing him vulnerable. Like, this was the first time I'd ever seen him cry. He cried every day when he spoke at the 5K. I've never seen him cry. Never seen him vulnerable.

• 1:51:37Speaker 01

  For me, the, I don't know if anybody else saw it, but there was, it was early on in the campaign and I was suffering and Quinn, as a five-year-old,

• 1:51:47Speaker 01

  it was the first time I'd seen him, like, he saw his dad in pain and, and he, he came up and he just started crying. And I don't know if anybody else saw it.

• 1:51:56Speaker 02

  I remember this now. It was maybe Vegas or...

• 1:51:58Speaker 01

  It was early on and he was just so, you know, he, he still remembered that, that relationship with his dad at home. And, and when he saw me hurting, I mean, he just had this like deep connection to me and for a five-year-old just to like... Start crying because his dad's hurting and just that that connection was just so sweet to me.

• 1:52:19Speaker 02

  I remember I said, you're okay, right dad?

• 1:52:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:23Speaker 02

  You're okay.

• 1:52:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:24Speaker 02

  So that Quinn would know. And then Quinn said to me after, he he's gonna be okay, right? I was like, yeah, he's gonna be okay.

• 1:52:30Speaker 01

  I think it was in Arizona.

• 1:52:31Speaker 02

  It was early. It was like, I remember it being Vegas time, yeah. They they've just, I mean, the older girls, they loved it. And every time he cried, they loved it. Cause I, I mean, we don't see him that that vulnerable. James and I have always been really great problem solvers together. And so if things came up that were hard, we problem solved. We didn't wallow in it. We didn't cry about it. We just addressed it and figured it out. So to see him vulnerable, these weren't problems he could solve. They're problems he had to just tough it out through. And I mean that as in every day being an Ironman, iron distance triathlon.

• 1:53:04Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. Yes.

• 1:53:05Speaker 02

  Per se.

• 1:53:05Speaker 01

  Be very careful.

• 1:53:06Speaker 02

  Per se. And ellipticating, per se.

• 1:53:12Speaker 02

  But that vulnerability was really, that was good for me too.

• 1:53:14Speaker 01

  The cease and desist letter is in the mail. I can't believe I haven't got one yet.

• 1:53:19Speaker 02

  Um, but I think the thing I learned best about James is that he was a lot more dependent than he probably would have let off to be. You know, like he, he needed the emotional support. So our friend Kyle showed up in Las Vegas and he said, James needs somebody to take care of him.

• 1:53:40Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:53:40Speaker 02

  Not get him his stuff, not make sure he has, he needs someone to love him and he needs to know that person's there to nurture him. So that's something that he, I mean, he's kind of always needed that naturally, but that was shown really strongly through this course that he needed emotional love, but at the same time, he didn't have time for it. So we had to get creative as a family, how to show that love to him and that emotional support without infringing on, you know, a timeframe.

• 1:54:08Speaker 01

  Well, and that's when the, that's when the wingman antics really amped up.

• 1:54:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:12Speaker 01

  Is that was their way of showing.

• 1:54:14Speaker 02

  He hated him too. James hated him in the moment. He was so annoying.

• 1:54:17Speaker 01

  It was so annoying.

• 1:54:18Speaker 02

  So annoyed.

• 1:54:18Speaker 01

  So annoying, but but you know, obviously being removed from the situation and looking back, that was Casey and Aaron's and and the crew's way of saying.

• 1:54:26Speaker 02

  Emotional support.

• 1:54:27Speaker 01

  We love you.

• 1:54:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:28Speaker 01

  We love you and we're still, we're still here to play with you.

• 1:54:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're we're your friends. We're not just your wingman. Like, we're here as your friend. Remember us? We used to play together.

• 1:54:37Speaker 01

  We understand that you're suffering. We know you can't play back, but we're

• 1:54:43Speaker 02

  Going to make you suffer.

• 1:54:45Speaker 01

  You know, that was, that was their way and, and I, and I knew that at the time and, and you know, once we got into the last 10, I started to be a little bit more playful. Um, but it was, you know, 10 through 20, I was like, come on, guys.

• 1:54:56Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:54:57Speaker 02

  When for me, it was hard for me because there were so many people all around. Like it was hilarious. I listened to the first interview last night with you and he'd said, "The motorhome is our space for our family" kind of thing. There was not a minute that thing was not a public place. I mean, it was insane.

• 1:55:13Rich Roll?

  I went in it and I was like, oh my gosh.

• 1:55:16Speaker 01

  It was like a war zone.

• 1:55:17Rich Roll?

  Disaster in there.

• 1:55:18Speaker 02

  Really? So it was my, it was funny. One of our friends said, "I expect it to stink." And I was like, oh, he's like, "It's not that bad." I'm like, "What are you talking about? It's not that bad." He's like, "I thought it would stink." Steve Gray said that. So we did, we did everything we could. I'd spend 90 minutes every night getting that cleaned up and prepared for the next day. But my way of showing emotional support was just being there with James. So I would have to fight the crowds to go back and just lay by him. Or I'd have to fight the crowds to just see him in transition. Anything like that where I thought, I can't do anything, but just seeing him, touching him once, even if it's for 30 seconds, it, that's all I can do.

• 1:55:52Speaker 01

  One of, one of my favorite pictures was, um, when I'm laying there asleep and my son is falling asleep on my, on my stomach or my chest. Um, and I just look at that picture and go, man, that was, that was a sweet moment, you know? Um, even though I was asleep, I was just, it, yeah, it, the moments were so far and few, few between where I could just like, sit with one of my family members.

• 1:56:12Speaker 02

  Who is interesting is Dolly, our fourth little daughter. She's like sassy and so fun. I'd be like, "Do you want to say hi to dad?" No. Just all in her lollygagging way, happiest could be. I already said hi to him. I said, like she didn't have any, she was just happy to be there.

• 1:56:25Rich Roll?

  She's on her own trip.

• 1:56:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, she was. She'd say hi to James and give him a hug and be on her way. She never felt any disconnection. She just was happy to be there.

• 1:56:34Speaker 01

  It, it, it impacted Quinn the most.

• 1:56:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. He's the one that spends the most time with James and the older kids, of course, they understood. So it was different.

• 1:56:43Rich Roll?

  So David Goggins, like legendary ultra endurance athlete famously said something that's always stuck with me, which is when you think you're cooked, you're completely done and you can't go on, that you've actually only accomplished about 40% of what you're truly capable of. And I would imagine that you would agree with that sentiment, maybe change the percentage number.

• 1:57:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would have said one through 20, I was cooked completely.

• 1:57:09Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:10Speaker 01

  And then somehow we figured out how to do the last 30 and over the last 20, we became stronger and over the last, you know, on the last one, we put forth our best performance.

• 1:57:20Rich Roll?

  Right. And when we were, when we were running, you were sharing with me a little bit about how you would, you would use some mental tricks, like when you had, when you had like 11 to go, you would say one to go to 10 to go, you know, just a way of breaking it down into, you know, bite sized chunks that you could like mentally compute. But if you had to kind of estimate how, how the challenge broke down in terms of physical versus mental, what does that balance look like for you? Like, how much of the struggle was mental versus physical?

• 1:57:53Speaker 01

  I could only get my body so ready physically.

• 1:57:58Speaker 01

  And then once, once it was at that level of readiness, it was a matter of just, just making the body perform and doing what we needed to do to make sure that the body didn't break down. And so, I mean, this thing was 80% mental, if not more. The body was going to do what it was going to do. And I've proven to be durable, but it's because of the small things that I do. But it was, it was, it was definitely a mental thing. And that's, that's the part that we can't, you know, we haven't been able to put our finger on or quantify that, that separates me. It's because of that space between my ears.

• 1:58:37Speaker 01

  And like I said, I'd be, I'd be rich if I could bottle that and, and sell it to people.

• 1:58:41Rich Roll?

  Have you always had that kind of ability to focus, that kind of mental fortitude? Or have you trained yourself to get to that place?

• 1:58:48Speaker 02

  His wife says yes.

• 1:58:50Speaker 01

  You know, I think, I think it's, I think it's something.

• 1:58:52Rich Roll?

  I mean, what were you like as a little kid?

• 1:58:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, I think it's definitely something that you're born with. But like any talent, if it's not developed, it goes wasted. And so I grew up wrestling, wrestled 11 years, and I think that was the start of building that mental toughness. And then I think just by fluke or chance, through the first two world records, through the half Ironmans and the full Ironmans, it just continued to be developed. And so it wasn't something that I set out to, you know, a skill set that I was like, you know, I'm going to develop this. And I realized I have it. Now, I mean, I now know that obviously I have a gift to be able to control my mind and do mindless tasks, or suffer in a way

• 1:59:36Speaker 01

  that many, most can't, or have a can-do attitude during the whole process. I think that's, I think that's the other thing that I learned about myself is, you know, deep in the campaign, I could have been this miserable bear than I was, and I could have treated people worse than I did. And I think that was one of the highest compliments that I got was every single day, we involved and had massive interactions with the public. And it didn't take an overwhelming effort for me to do it, to be, you know, to interact with people. And at times, it was hard because I did have the same question every single day. And I had a conversation with Sonny that about, look, I think I was raised 41.

• 2:00:21Speaker 01

  I said, we have to realize that this is our 41st experience of this, but this is their first experience today. And so we really tried as a team in an effort to make those individuals on that day feel special, and feel like it was their first experience.

• 2:00:36Rich Roll?

  It was impressive to watch that because I could get that from the Facebook feed. And, you know, to be able to be present and put a smile on your face, and take the selfie, and, you know, do the 5K, and put your arms around people, when you're in the midst of trying to do something that they can't even fathom, and everybody wants their moment with you, that is a very difficult, tightrope act.

• 2:01:01Speaker 01

  I took every selfie, and I signed every bib. And I think that's what a lot of people, the slow twitchers, don't understand is, this wasn't your regular, average endurance thing where I was just going out there and trying to endure. It was something that, just on a whole other level where we... Tried to to connect with the public and do something very different. I mean, to go out there, we could have just just hammered through the days and ignored the public and and gotten through and got to the next state and had some good

• 2:01:30Speaker 02

  And save time.

• 2:01:30Speaker 01

  And save time and had some good rest and got some food in there and had some downtime with the crew. Uh, but the reality was is we took that time every single day. And and that that's what was important to us. And that's where we got the exposure. And that's how we raised the money. And so that was that was critical time for us, but but it was just such a huge um expense for us as far as time during the day was which impacted my recovery, my sleep and everything for the crew. And we got compliments every single day because of that aspect that we tried to incorporate in this journey.

• 2:02:03Speaker 02

  And I tried to take responsibility doing as much of that as I could to relieve James of that. So I knew that if people could come to me, they wouldn't need to ask James as many questions or get as much information from him. So I did everything I could to do as much of visiting during the 5K or pre 5K to answer any question.

• 2:02:20Rich Roll?

  It's like a politician. It's like a politician on a whistle stop. You know, it's like you need your handler to like pull you out so that you don't have to so that you don't have to be the bad guy saying, I can't take more pictures.

• 2:02:32Speaker 02

  Then I would then I would answer the repetitive questions. So that they weren't asking him if they had to ask him a question, it would be a little more you know, heartfelt, like a more unique question. So I tried to do as much of that as I could so that they didn't all turn to James.

• 2:02:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. Utah was the very first state that I said no to pictures. Um, while we were doing the event that they had to wait till the end because there was just so many people. And it was hard for me to say that no, and I felt horrible when I did it.

• 2:02:58Rich Roll?

  But it had to though. There were way too many people.

• 2:03:00Speaker 01

  It would have just started this onslaught.

• 2:03:02Rich Roll?

  I mean, you handled the whole thing with a lot of grace, you know.

• 2:03:06Speaker 01

  And then and then a lot of people didn't see is we were there till 10 o'clock at night.

• 2:03:10Speaker 02

  No way. It was like 10:45.

• 2:03:11Rich Roll?

  That's why I had to get back on a plane and come back here because you lost your voice. When you texted me in the morning and said, I can't do the podcast.

• 2:03:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:18Rich Roll?

  I was like, that guy probably stayed there until the last person was gone.

• 2:03:21Speaker 02

  We'd go to bed till 12:30.

• 2:03:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I had left at like 10:30 and there was still like 200 people there. It was dark out.

• 2:03:26Speaker 01

  We had a huge lineup and I and I stayed there until and it was funny because every person that came up, they were like I know you're exhausted, but will you do this? And I was like, well, you know, I'm exhausted. But I did, I thought it was important to stay there.

• 2:03:41Speaker 02

  Is there one chance?

• 2:03:42Speaker 01

  And I thought it was important to stay there and do that. And it was my way of saying, thank you for the overwhelming support and love that we felt through every single state, especially in Utah.

• 2:03:53Rich Roll?

  What do you want people to take away from this?

• 2:03:59Speaker 01

  There's a, there's a million different things, but for me, it's just, um, just, just be empowered to do that hard thing in your life.

• 2:04:08Speaker 01

  And then it'll be okay.

• 2:04:11Speaker 01

  However low you are, wherever you are, there, there's someone out there that loves you and there's someone out there that can support you and there's a, there's a way to climb out of it. And it's just take that first hand hold and just start climbing. And, uh, and it will get better and, and you'll, you'll come out on top as long as you keep climbing.

• 2:04:34Rich Roll?

  I like that, man. That's a pretty good place to end it, I think.

• 2:04:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:38Rich Roll?

  But I gotta get Sonny's version of that. What do you want people to take away?

• 2:04:42Speaker 02

  There are no dead ends in life, only speed bumps.

• 2:04:45Speaker 01

  I like that too.

• 2:04:47Speaker 02

  When you think you've hit a dead end, it's not a dead end, it's just a speed bump. Stand up, keep going. You know, if you see a speed bump coming, slow down a little bit. Either you can floor it and hit it and get it over with, or you can slow down, go over it gracefully. But there's no such thing as a dead end. Like just floor it, skip it, hop it, however you need to do that speed bump.

• 2:05:07Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. And if someone's listening and they're feeling stuck in their life or they're feeling frustrated in their ability to either figure out what it is that they're passionate about, or perhaps they're having difficulty in achieving whatever goals they've set for them, what kind of inspiration or wisdom could you convey?

• 2:05:29Speaker 02

  I think the biggest problem that people have is they don't know what they actually want. They want something different, but they don't know what they want. Until you know what you want, you'll never have it. So figure out what you want, then work on the way to get it.

• 2:05:43Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. The hardest part is figuring out what you want.

• 2:05:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, people don't know. They want something different, but they don't know what they want.

• 2:05:50Rich Roll?

  Or they think they know what they want, but that's not actually what they want. Right?

• 2:05:54Speaker 02

  It'll solve all my problems.

• 2:05:56Rich Roll?

  All right, two final questions. The first one is, What are the wingmen gonna do next? What's up, wingman?

• 2:06:06Speaker 03

  Hello?

• 2:06:06Rich Roll?

  You guys, you could, you should just go pro.

• 2:06:09Speaker 03

  Let's go.

• 2:06:09Rich Roll?

  Pro wingman, just go from one ultra endurance event to the next.

• 2:06:13Speaker 03

  If being wingman could pay the bills, that'd be awesome.

• 2:06:17Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:06:17Speaker 03

  Anyone out there? Hello?

• 2:06:18Rich Roll?

  Wingman Incorporated?

• 2:06:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. Sponsors? Well, they'll hire us for the weekend.

• 2:06:23Speaker 01

  They do parties. We're free.

• 2:06:26Speaker 03

  We're not free.

• 2:06:26Rich Roll?

  They will come to your house.

• 2:06:28Speaker 03

  I think we're gonna keep up some things going every once in a while, just kind of.

• 2:06:31Rich Roll?

  You should have your own Facebook page, first of all.

• 2:06:34Speaker 02

  You know, that's so funny. He had that. Great idea.

• 2:06:36Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:37Speaker 03

  But then it's all separated from James, and so.

• 2:06:39Rich Roll?

  Well, at some point, listen, at some point, you know, you gotta leave the womb. You gotta leave the nest.

• 2:06:44Speaker 02

  This is what we want. We want the retro listeners to vote if these wingmen had their own line, if people would follow.

• 2:06:51Rich Roll?

  Wingman, what do you mean their own line?

• 2:06:53Speaker 02

  Their own video blogs.

• 2:06:54Rich Roll?

  Or their own vlog?

• 2:06:55Speaker 02

  Or their own Facebook page, or we say yes.

• 2:06:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I think so.

• 2:07:00Speaker 01

  I think, I think.

• 2:07:00Rich Roll?

  You're on like YouTube channel.

• 2:07:02Speaker 01

  The wingmen have garnished a following.

• 2:07:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:03Speaker 01

  And, and just, just because you guys, if you guys start your own thing, doesn't mean we can't plug it into mine. Well, what's cool about what?

• 2:07:09Speaker 02

  We're not getting divorced, Casey.

• 2:07:11Speaker 01

  That's what I'm worried about. The cool thing about where Sonny and I sit is by accomplishing this 50, it's, it's really the start line for us. And it now gives us a platform to go out and continue to do certain things to empower people and to raise the money. And so, so for us, it's, it's a start line. So the wingmen don't have to, you know, there's still gonna be opportunities for them to, to pop in and out because.

• 2:07:34Rich Roll?

  Wait till the documentary comes out. It's just gonna blow up.

• 2:07:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and so, so it's actually great because they don't, they don't have to retire, because I know they don't want to. But we're gonna be doing a lot of cool things over the next four or five years that'll continue. Because now that we have this momentum and, and for lack of a better word, a captive audience.

• 2:07:55Speaker 01

  We want to continue, continue to do what we've been doing in the past.

• 2:07:59Rich Roll?

  And are you, are you going to continue to pursue endurance sports? Do you have perspective on that yet? Or is that, is the jury out on?

• 2:08:09Speaker 01

  The jury is-

• 2:08:10Rich Roll?

  In terms of what you're doing next, like physically?

• 2:08:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll never do something that big again. I'm excited to dive in and do team relays and a lot of fun things. I'm excited to put together our pro team and be the head of that. And I'm excited to do coaching. I'm really excited to do speaking. We're writing a book, we're doing the documentary. My time is going to be definitely occupied.

• 2:08:36Speaker 01

  I'm not, I'm not going to walk away from, from racing, but it's not going to be, it's certainly not going to be 50 50 50.

• 2:08:41Rich Roll?

  And what's the, what's the timeline on the documentary, do you know?

• 2:08:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, we'll have it, they're already done through half of the edit. We plan to release it by the end of the year.

• 2:08:52Rich Roll?

  What's, how are you going to, do you have a plan and how are you going to release it? How that's going to work?

• 2:08:55Speaker 01

  They've got a couple of different avenues. They're just waiting for the, the right one.

• 2:08:59Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 2:08:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:00Rich Roll?

  And what about a book?

• 2:09:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're writing a book.

• 2:09:02Rich Roll?

  All right, good. Cool, so, final question.

• 2:09:09Rich Roll?

  The Facebook page is great, all the beautiful pictures of you and the crowds of people and the smiles and the selfies and all of that. But I think the one image that really like knocked people out was that picture of your foot.

• 2:09:24Rich Roll?

  That really rocked some people. I looked at it and I was like, yeah, of course, that's what his foot looks like. But for a lot of people, you know, the uninitiated, that was like, oh man, look at that. So a lot of people are like-

• 2:09:36Speaker 02

  It was worse before.

• 2:09:37Rich Roll?

  How are his feet doing?

• 2:09:39Speaker 02

  His picture, it was worse two weeks before that.

• 2:09:41Rich Roll?

  It was?

• 2:09:41Speaker 02

  Oh yeah.

• 2:09:41Rich Roll?

  But no, no follow up? Yeah, there it is.

• 2:09:45Speaker 02

  That's getting better. Like, he's already lost the toenails there. Like, this is getting better.

• 2:09:49Rich Roll?

  Uh huh. It's, it's

• 2:09:50Speaker 01

  What's crazy about that?

• 2:09:52Rich Roll?

  Do you lose all your toenails, pretty much?

• 2:09:53Speaker 01

  No. No. I still have, I still have, I still have a few left. Um, yeah, that, that was on, that picture was when it was on the, on the mend. It was crazy. My, the toes that decided to freak out, they, they needed to do so on their own time. And unfortunately, they did them one at a time. And so it just prolonged that, that thing. And it went, and it really wasn't the running shoes. It was the, the bike shoes.

• 2:10:17Speaker 02

  Um, that hurt, that hurt me the most. And so we, I mean, it was just a scramble to get me bigger and bigger shoes.

• 2:10:24Speaker 01

  I did the entire Ironman Arizona with my shoes outside of the shoes on top of the

• 2:10:30Rich Roll?

  Oh, you did? Wow. Especially when you have that, like a Dema, right? How could you possibly get your foot in a bike shoe?

• 2:10:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I did the whole thing with it, with it on top of the, the bike shoe. And so that was, that was just like

• 2:10:40Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 2:10:41Speaker 01

  Mashing the pedals that day. Um, and then it just became a managing them and waiting for each toe to go through its process of

• 2:10:48Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 2:10:48Speaker 01

  Whatever it needed to go through. I, I remember in one state, we, we actually, we cut out the, the, the tips of the shoe just because that pressure was so

• 2:10:58Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 2:10:58Speaker 01

  So big on that toe. Um, but they're great. Yeah, they're, they're good now. They're

• 2:11:03Rich Roll?

  Glad to hear.

• 2:11:04Speaker 01

  Totally on the mend.

• 2:11:05Rich Roll?

  Demanded to know.

• 2:11:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're on the mend.

• 2:11:07Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 2:11:07Speaker 02

  It's funny, a lot of people said, no, we weren't wondering. And I was like, are you kidding? Everybody's got to be wondering what those feet look like.

• 2:11:12Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, great, you guys. Thank you so much for the time. Um, this has been amazing. And I've said it before, I'm going to say it again. I honestly think without any hyperbole, that what you guys achieved as a team is truly one of the greatest uh, accomplishments in the history of voluntary human endurance. And by voluntary, I mean, you know, there's people in prison camps and things like that, that have to endure certain things against their will. But in terms of something that you willingly signed up for, it is truly remarkable. And as somebody who has a small taste of, you know, what you had to endure, it's nothing but, uh, mad love and respect. And, you know,

• 2:11:54Rich Roll?

  I think for the average person out there who maybe has never, you know, run a 5K or anything like that, it's very difficult for them to wrap their brains around just what an extraordinary accomplishment it is. And it's been my privilege to spend time with you guys and hopefully, you know, shine a little bit of a spotlight on what you're doing. And I'm just, I'm moved emotionally. It really, it really was emotional for me to be there in Utah and see you do that. And just, I'm so impressed. Not just with the physical accomplishment, but the way that you guys all acquitted yourself and carried yourself. It was really impressive. And it's amazing, man. So, keep doing what you're

• 2:12:39Rich Roll?

  doing. Keep spreading the love. And I can't wait to see what you're doing next, man. So, thank you.

• 2:12:44Speaker 01

  Thanks, Rich. Thank you.

• 2:12:45Rich Roll?

  Appreciate you guys. Peace. Plants. Power.

• 2:12:54Rich Roll?

  All right, we did it. Did we do it? I think we did it. I think that was pretty great. What do you guys think? Let me know what you think of the episode in the comments section on the episode page at richroll.com. And hey, have you picked up our new cookbook and lifestyle guide, The Plant Power Way? 120 plus, amazing. Easy to prepare, delicious, plant-based recipes and guidance for the whole family. It's a primer for the modern family or the individual just looking to take your life and your health to the next level. The book retails for like $39.99, but you can pick it up on Amazon using the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for only like 23 bucks. Sometimes it's like $21 on Amazon. It's complete steal, you guys. So, check that out. And for all your plant power

• 2:13:35Rich Roll?

  needs, visit richroll.com. We got nutrition products like our Ion Electrolyte Recovery Supplement, as well as our Vitamin B12 Supplement. We got signed copies of our books, Finding Ultra on The Plant Power Way. We have 100% organic cotton garments. We got meditation programs. Julie's meditation program has been a huge favorite lately. You can check that out. Super cheap. I think it's $9.99. We got Plant Power Tech Tees, Plant Power and Peace in Plants sticker packs. We got temporary tattoos. We got limited edition art prints, both framed and unframed. Basically, everything you need to take your health and your life to the next level. We got your bases covered at richroll.com. Keep sending in your questions for future Q and A podcasts to [email protected].

• 2:14:19Rich Roll?

  We're going to be doing more of these, as you know, and I'm loving all the questions that you guys are sending in. If you're into online courses, I've got two of those at mindbodygreen.com. The Art of Living with Purpose, which is all about getting focused, getting organized, setting goals, achieving them, getting your life on a solid trajectory, as well as The Ultimate Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition, which is a great sort of complimentary piece to the Plant Power Way. It's all about how to get more plant-powered into your life and really take your health, your plate, your diet, your kitchen, your nutrition to the next level. Both of those courses are multiple hours of streaming video content, and they include online communities and all kinds of good stuff. So, go to mindbodygreen.com, click on "Video Courses," and you can find out much more information

• 2:15:03Rich Roll?

  about those there. Thanks for all the support of the show. Thank you for telling your friends. Thank you for sharing it on social media. We really appreciate the support and the help. This has been a grassroots movement of growing this show, and it's really been gratifying and amazing and wonderful and beautiful to see it kind of blowing up on iTunes and all over the world. And I really appreciate all the amazing emails and social media posts and feedback that you guys have been giving me. So, thank you so much. And that's it. Use the Amazon banner at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases to support the show. And that's all I've got to say today. All right, you guys? I'll see you in a few days. Make it a great week. Carry on some of this inspiration from today's episode.

• 2:15:48Rich Roll?

  Translate it into action in your own life. Peace. Plants.