Questioning “Life” Choices With Ken Coleman (“Would You Rather” Edition)

💵 Create a free budget and find more margin with EveryDollar. Career, relationships, self-improvement—life is full of important choices, and today we’re unpacking all the options with bestselling author and The Ramsey Show co-host Ken Coleman. Next Steps: 🎙️ Catch our episode Critiquing Your Spending Habits (and Ours) With Dr. John Delony 🍸 Follow Smart Money Happy Hour on TikTok: @smartmoneyhappyhour 📱 Submit a Guilty As Charged question for Rachel and George! Leave us a voicemail with your question at 877-306-1517 or send a DM to @rachelcruze or @georgekamel on Instagram! Be sure to type “GUILTY?” at the top of your message so we don’t miss it. 🤑 Catch Ken’s episode with George: Financial Expert: These Common Money Habits Are Keeping You Poor 🤩 Catch Ken’s episode with Rachel: Marriage, Parenting and Growing Up as Dave Ramsey’s Daughter Connect With Our Sponsors: Check out the FAIRWINDS Credit Union exclusive account bundle. Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Get 20% off with code SMARTMONEY at Cozy Earth. Today’s Happy Hour Special: 🥃 Kentucky Mule Recipe from Liquor.com 2 ounces bourbon 1/2 ounce lime juice, freshly squeezed Ginger beer, to top Garnish: mint sprig Instructions: Add the bourbon and lime juice to a copper mug or a highball glass. Fill the mug or glass with ice and top with ginger beer. Garnish with a mint sprig and enjoy! Explore More From Ramsey Network: 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05George Kamel?

  From unhinged would you rathers to a real life game of life today we're joined by one of our greatest friends and fellow Ramsey personalities, Ken Coleman.

• 0:13Speaker 01

  I couldn't be more comfortable. I'm not buying it.

• 0:17George Kamel?

  Oh my gosh. That's pretty good. Life is already hard, Ken. Why would you want me to do more hard things?

• 0:28Rachel Cruze?

  Hey guys, I'm Rachel Cruz.

• 0:29George Kamel?

  I'm George Kamel.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  And I'm Ken Coleman.

• 0:32Rachel Cruze?

  And this is Smart Money Happy Hour. Cheers, everyone.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Cheers.

• 0:40Rachel Cruze?

  Well, this is the show where two friends who happen to be money experts talk about what you're talking about. So everything from pop culture, current events, and money.

• 0:47George Kamel?

  And today it's three friends and we have a special cocktail for a special man. We are sipping on a Kentucky Mule.

• 0:52Speaker 01

  It's great, by the way.

• 0:53Rachel Cruze?

  So good.

• 0:54George Kamel?

  Well, don't give it away just yet. We're going to give you all our rating and reveal the cost per glass at the end of the episode, so stick around for that.

• 1:02Rachel Cruze?

  All right, Ken, well, welcome.

• 1:03Speaker 01

  Welcome.

• 1:03Rachel Cruze?

  You've been on our list.

• 1:05Speaker 01

  Have I?

• 1:06Rachel Cruze?

  Of must have guests.

• 1:07George Kamel?

  It wasn't a good list.

• 1:08Speaker 01

  Way down the list.

• 1:09George Kamel?

  It was more of a naughty list.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  I think that's probably right. I'm just happy to be on the list, but it was way down the list.

• 1:15Rachel Cruze?

  No, we wanted you, Ken. And we're glad, we are glad you're here.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  Well, I'm very excited to be here.

• 1:19George Kamel?

  Yeah, and for people that maybe only watch Smart Money Happy Hour, they live in a vacuum, you know, tell them about what you do here at Ramsey as one of the personalities.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I'm in the workspace, right? So Dave Ramsey for decades has said your income is your greatest wealth building tool. And so we find as we're all on The Ramsey Show together and The Ramsey Show Live, that we find that many times it's not just about cutting expenses, it's increasing that income. And so I'm in that space. I want to help people win at work, get better personally, so they can move up professionally. And then if they move into a leadership role, which many times they do, how do you lead effectively? So helping people win at work as a part of the Ramsey crew is the role.

• 1:58George Kamel?

  I love it. And you also are one of the best interviewers I know. And you have a show

• 2:01Speaker 01

  Oh, it's very nice.

• 2:02George Kamel?

  On the Ramsey Network.

• 2:03Speaker 01

  That is my show.

• 2:04Rachel Cruze?

  Front row seat.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  That's correct.

• 2:05Rachel Cruze?

  So you're interviewing people all day.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  Both of you have been on it.

• 2:07Rachel Cruze?

  So you know what? We're going to flip the tables.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  Are you? Keno, you can call me whatever you like.

• 2:12Rachel Cruze?

  We're gonna, we're gonna ask you some questions.

• 2:14Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm ready.

• 2:14Rachel Cruze?

  Are you ready?

• 2:15George Kamel?

  It's like interrogation. These aren't the easy questions that you lob to your guests.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  The bright lights might make it feel that way, though. It's a little intimidating right now.

• 2:21George Kamel?

  A little good cop, bad cop.

• 2:22Speaker 01

  I can barely see George, for the record. The light's so bright over there. It's a big move. I think it's like having me in the lower chair.

• 2:28George Kamel?

  Do you not wear contacts?

• 2:30Speaker 01

  I do.

• 2:30George Kamel?

  I feel like your vision is going. You have cataracts at your age?

• 2:32Speaker 01

  No, I have contacts because I'm legally blind without surgery. In fact, Rachel and I are in the same category. We've long been in a similar contact lens category. I'm worse than she is.

• 2:45Rachel Cruze?

  What are you, what were you?

• 2:46Speaker 01

  Negative seven, five, oh.

• 2:48Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, I was six, six point two five before I had my surgery.

• 2:51George Kamel?

  I'm negative six, seven, five. Guys, we could all start a-

• 2:54Rachel Cruze?

  You are?

• 2:55George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 2:55Speaker 01

  You know, we are. We're the old nursery rhyme, three blind mice.

• 2:58George Kamel?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  That's what we are. But now, you pointed out-

• 3:02Rachel Cruze?

  Why don't you go get, uh, surgery?

• 3:04Speaker 01

  Why?

• 3:04Rachel Cruze?

  PRK or LASIK?

• 3:05Speaker 01

  Because I got 20/20 with these guys and I throw them out every night and start over fresh.

• 3:09Rachel Cruze?

  You don't even understand the energy you're putting into your life right now.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  No.

• 3:11George Kamel?

  Can I tell you the honest truth?

• 3:12Speaker 01

  Too much risk to get my eyeball cut.

• 3:14George Kamel?

  Without the glasses, who am I?

• 3:16Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, it's identity.

• 3:18George Kamel?

  I don't look smart. I look even weirder.

• 3:19Rachel Cruze?

  Here, take them off. Let's see it, let's see it, let's see it.

• 3:20Speaker 01

  He's got weird eyes. Look at his eyes.

• 3:22Rachel Cruze?

  Have you ever noticed?

• 3:23Speaker 01

  Yes, he does. His eyes get twice the size. His glasses, they're giant. You're looking at teacup saucers. This guy goes into a completely different person. Put the glasses back on. Look at his eyes. They shrink. Now he looks normal.

• 3:36Rachel Cruze?

  Let me see, let me see.

• 3:37George Kamel?

  I'm mellow now.

• 3:38Rachel Cruze?

  That is kind of-

• 3:38George Kamel?

  I mellows me out.

• 3:39Rachel Cruze?

  Usually glasses do the opposite?

• 3:41George Kamel?

  Now tell me I should get the surgery.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  Without those.

• 3:44Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, I do like you in glasses, George.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  It's the risk, by the way.

• 3:47George Kamel?

  I think it frames me up.

• 3:48Rachel Cruze?

  You know what's funny is, is glasses gave me-

• 3:51Speaker 01

  I see what you did there.

• 3:52Rachel Cruze?

  A, um, lowercase t trauma moment when I was in college. I had gl- I never wore glasses, ever. I always wore contacts because I didn't like my glasses because they were so thick. So mine were, like, on the side.

• 4:03George Kamel?

  The lens is thick.

• 4:04Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 4:05George Kamel?

  Coke bottle.

• 4:05Rachel Cruze?

  Yes. And so I remember freshman year of college, all the girls would like wear their glasses and like their messy button, their sorority shirts to class. And I was like, that's a cute look. What if I wore my glasses one day? Wore my glasses.

• 4:16George Kamel?

  Oh, boy.

• 4:16Rachel Cruze?

  I took, um, ready for this class, forestry, wildlife and fish- As my science.

• 4:21George Kamel?

  Fisheries?

• 4:22Rachel Cruze?

  Forestry and fisheries, that's what it's called.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  It's a great elective.

• 4:25Rachel Cruze?

  So, we all took that elective because it was the easiest science at.

• 4:28George Kamel?

  You also took a walking class for credit.

• 4:31Rachel Cruze?

  I did, that was my.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  How was that not the easiest?

• 4:34Rachel Cruze?

  Well, I mean by like a real class. Anyways, I'm in a, I'm in one of those like lecture halls, you know? And no joke y'all, I'm sitting there and these two guys behind me.

• 4:43Speaker 01

  Oh boy.

• 4:43Rachel Cruze?

  Uh huh, I hear them. He goes, dude, look at the girl in front of us. And I was like.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  Right.

• 4:49Rachel Cruze?

  And he said, look at the side of her glasses.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:52Rachel Cruze?

  Look how thick they are. They start talking about me and my glasses and I'm sitting there and I'm like.

• 4:57George Kamel?

  You were secretly bullied?

• 4:58Rachel Cruze?

  I was.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  Yes, behind her back.

• 5:01Rachel Cruze?

  And never again.

• 5:02George Kamel?

  M Night Shyamalan twist, it was Winston Cruz.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  Probably was.

• 5:06George Kamel?

  That would have been amazing.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  Because she's a completely different person without those.

• 5:09Rachel Cruze?

  He may have been.

• 5:10Speaker 01

  But I, I, I have the same trauma, I get it. It was eighth grade before I got the contacts. So I had to play basketball with the crokeys. The little glasses being to keep, if I got hit in the head with a ball, the glasses might fall off. And I remember one time playing defense, got hit in the face, glasses, it's terrible. So finally learned how to, you know, stick my finger in my eye, which is what you have to do.

• 5:31Rachel Cruze?

  Put them in anywhere, everywhere. I don't even have to worry about, I know.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  Now I can, one could pop up right here, no big deal, I put it on my tongue, doop, boom, boom, little saliva, no problem.

• 5:38Rachel Cruze?

  Yep, so PRK surgery is what I did.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  George is freaked out right now, but that's what you have to do when you wear contacts.

• 5:43Rachel Cruze?

  Hundred percent.

• 5:44Speaker 01

  If you don't have saline solution just in your pocket right here.

• 5:47George Kamel?

  I'm sorry, the tongue?

• 5:48Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, saliva is a good.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  You want to stick a dry contact in your eye, I promise you, you don't, you might as well stab yourself in the eye.

• 5:54George Kamel?

  Tongue bacteria inside of your eyeball.

• 5:56Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, saliva was actually.

• 5:57Speaker 01

  The alternative is stabbing yourself in the eye.

• 6:00George Kamel?

  I think I'd rather do that than die of dysentery.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  All right, too much information for people.

• 6:04George Kamel?

  All right.

• 6:05Rachel Cruze?

  I'm eating.

• 6:06George Kamel?

  Well, listen, we're gonna have some fun.

• 6:08Rachel Cruze?

  Throw a would you rather to Mr. Ken Coleman.

• 6:12George Kamel?

  We're gonna give you some soft tosses because it's gonna get real intense in a little bit here, so would you rather?

• 6:16Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 6:17George Kamel?

  Wear Crocs to work for a full day unironically, or watch your saddle loafers be chewed up by one of my French Bulldogs.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Well, I despise Crocs. I mean, with all caps.

• 6:28Rachel Cruze?

  We know this about you.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  I would eliminate them from society if I had the power. However, I would rather be subjected to that humiliation than watch a dog eat a perfectly great pair of saddles, bucks or something, mine particularly. So that'd be horrible. So I guess I have to go with those rubber monstrosities.

• 6:49George Kamel?

  Even if it was on a show where you could clearly see foot.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I couldn't bear to watch a dog eat a perfectly good pair of bucks. Your dogs particularly look like aliens.

• 6:59Rachel Cruze?

  After he got an acupuncture.

• 7:01Speaker 01

  I don't like what I would become. I would harm the dog in order to save the bucks.

• 7:06Rachel Cruze?

  Oh.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna let a dog eat a perfectly great pair of shoes.

• 7:09George Kamel?

  The leather on the shoe, that cow has already died. Why would you kill a perfectly good animal?

• 7:13Speaker 01

  Why would you allow a dog to just chew the thing up? I'll wear the Crocs. I already feel like you're subjecting me to torture.

• 7:18George Kamel?

  I regret this question personally.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's a great question, by the way. Tough choice.

• 7:23Rachel Cruze?

  Uh, okay, this one's for George.

• 7:25George Kamel?

  All right.

• 7:25Rachel Cruze?

  We're each doing one. Uh, would you rather be banned from Costco for a year or miss half of your hair appointments for three months?

• 7:33Speaker 01

  Great question.

• 7:34George Kamel?

  Oh my gosh. Only half for three months. Okay. That's a good one. When am I missing them?

• 7:41Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 7:41George Kamel?

  That's the big question. Uh, here's the truth. I, I could go Sam's Club for a year and live to tell the tale. I have a membership.

• 7:49Rachel Cruze?

  Okay.

• 7:49George Kamel?

  I sometimes go to Sam's Club.

• 7:51Rachel Cruze?

  King could do it.

• 7:52George Kamel?

  Here's what I found. Sam's Club, less stressful, less chaotic.

• 7:56Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, Costco people are too high maintenance.

• 7:57George Kamel?

  They're, yes.

• 7:59Rachel Cruze?

  Too efficient.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Boy, this could be controversial, given.

• 8:01George Kamel?

  I'm fine saying it. And honestly, went to Sam's Club the other day, did the scan and go. Never stood in a line. I just walked out of the store. And I went, you know what?

• 8:09Rachel Cruze?

  What's the scan and go?

• 8:10George Kamel?

  You literally scan the items on the app and then you leave the store. You pay in the app and you just leave.

• 8:15Rachel Cruze?

  Oh my gosh.

• 8:16George Kamel?

  And I went, you know what Costco?

• 8:17Rachel Cruze?

  Are we in 2026?

• 8:17George Kamel?

  Time to step up your game.

• 8:19Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 8:19George Kamel?

  Putting up with your shenanigans for too long. So in that case, I could go without Costco for a year. Now, why was I banned? That's the hurtful part. I want to know what caused me to get banned from Costco.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  I don't see that ever happening. The real story here is, is that George, and Rachel knows this because I reported it to the crew. There were a bunch of us, the personalities went on a retreat to a lake house.

• 8:40George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  And it was Saturday morning, we're just literally getting up and we're going to go get on a boat.

• 8:45Rachel Cruze?

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  We're going to be in the water.

• 8:46Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  And I hear his blow dryer going. This guy does a full-on hair thing, gets ready to go on the lake and to put a hat on. Which by the way, if you think George looks weird without his glasses, imagine George with a hat on.

• 8:59George Kamel?

  Not a hat guy.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  Some people should never wear a hat. And I think you can agree, you should never wear a hat.

• 9:03George Kamel?

  No, I look like a bug.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  You look goofy. Yeah, I don't know what it is.

• 9:07Rachel Cruze?

  Why are you being so mean to George?

• 9:09George Kamel?

  No, just to be honest.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  No, no, no, this isn't mean. He, he agrees.

• 9:12George Kamel?

  Yeah, no, I'm with you.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  But he loves doing his hair. And I don't see you going three months without.

• 9:17George Kamel?

  Ken was made for a ball cap. Put that guy in a ball cap, it's a true American patriot, right there in front of you.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  Do you need any more evidence than the fact that he calls a hat a ball cap? What are you, 95?

• 9:27George Kamel?

  That's what we call them.

• 9:28Speaker 01

  Can we get this guy a Procheesey set while we're at it? Man, have you had your Metamucil this morning?

• 9:33George Kamel?

  Honestly, it's psyllium husk and I do have a bag at home, fresh. That's what's in Metamucil, fun fact.

• 9:39Speaker 01

  I can't wait to put on a ball cap later tonight.

• 9:42George Kamel?

  It's the main ingredient in Metamucil. All right, Rachel, you're next.

• 9:45Rachel Cruze?

  With some Crocs.

• 9:47George Kamel?

  Rachel, would you rather publicly declare that the moon landing really happened? Or give up Amazon Prime for a year?

• 9:54Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 9:56Rachel Cruze?

  Oh my gosh. It's like your convictions versus your wants, you know?

• 10:01George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  That tells you something right there.

• 10:04George Kamel?

  It's conviction versus addiction is what it is.

• 10:07Speaker 01

  Well played, George.

• 10:08George Kamel?

  I knew Ken would like that.

• 10:09Rachel Cruze?

  I'm going addiction. I'll say we landed on the moon.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 10:13Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  But you're gonna bite your tongue when you say it.

• 10:15Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, I won't. I mean, in my head, I'm saying, this is not true.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  I do wanna give her some credit. When she first floated this theory at me several years ago, I rolled my eyes, oh, it's Rachel and conspiracy stuff. But having watched one of the videos she told me to watch, and then a movie put out by Hollywood. What was the name of that movie?

• 10:34Rachel Cruze?

  Um.

• 10:35Speaker 01

  It escapes me right now.

• 10:36Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  It's a romantic comedy.

• 10:37Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, yeah, it's cute. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:39Speaker 03

  Fly me to the moon?

• 10:40Rachel Cruze?

  Fly me to the moon. That's it. Yeah.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  Great pull over there.

• 10:43Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  Fly me to the moon. No kidding.

• 10:45Rachel Cruze?

  You're like, it could have happened.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  I'm 60, 40 that we didn't.

• 10:48George Kamel?

  Wow.

• 10:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:49Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  Give her, I gotta give her credit.

• 10:51Rachel Cruze?

  Because we freaking livestreamed from the moon before there was even like, remote controls for a TV.

• 10:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:57Rachel Cruze?

  And they call the landline for the, I mean, y'all, come on.

• 11:00Speaker 01

  So we were still doing the rotary phones back then.

• 11:03Rachel Cruze?

  I mean, seriously.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  That's the biggest case.

• 11:04Rachel Cruze?

  There wasn't even remotes. You didn't have a remote for your TV back then.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  George, I'm 60, 40. She got me.

• 11:08Rachel Cruze?

  That they livestreamed. We could barely even FaceTime without things glitching.

• 11:11George Kamel?

  Either way, what does it matter to me?

• 11:14Rachel Cruze?

  You need a little.

• 11:14George Kamel?

  It's not like I trusted the government before.

• 11:17Rachel Cruze?

  NASA.

• 11:18George Kamel?

  So either way.

• 11:18Speaker 01

  Great point.

• 11:19George Kamel?

  And the only guy I feel for is Buzz Aldrin. All this for nothing. Was he, you know, a?

• 11:24Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 11:25George Kamel?

  Was he paid off for this?

• 11:26Speaker 01

  I will say, that's part of the interesting thing there. He was once confronted and by a reporter and almost took the young guy's head off.

• 11:32Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 11:33Speaker 01

  Not too long ago.

• 11:33George Kamel?

  Oh, boy.

• 11:34Speaker 01

  So that passion there tells me, he's either really angry to cover up the ruse, or he's like, listen, pipsqueak, we actually did this. How dare you?

• 11:44Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 11:44Speaker 01

  That passion made me question.

• 11:47George Kamel?

  I'm impressed that Rachel planted a seed of doubt in your heart, and now she is harvesting.

• 11:51Rachel Cruze?

  And this was years ago, before it became like a, what I would say now, more of a normal thought.

• 11:54Speaker 01

  And I need to publicly apologize to you.

• 11:56Rachel Cruze?

  Thank you.

• 11:56Speaker 01

  Because I dismissed it far too quickly.

• 11:58Rachel Cruze?

  Thank you very much. That and JFK. I would love to talk to anyone about it.

• 12:02Speaker 01

  Well.

• 12:02Rachel Cruze?

  Whenever.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Whoever they said killed him didn't. That's a fact.

• 12:05George Kamel?

  I think this is a whole nother podcast we're starting over here. I'm here for it, but the people are here because they want really incredible insights from you, Ken. We played a game growing up called The Game of Life.

• 12:16Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 12:18George Kamel?

  You heard of this game?

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Oh, I've played it. Very boring.

• 12:20George Kamel?

  And I loved it.

• 12:21Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, with the little cars and the little people you have in it?

• 12:24Speaker 01

  I was into Clue.

• 12:26Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, yeah, that's good.

• 12:27George Kamel?

  You like a little mystery?

• 12:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:28Rachel Cruze?

  A little in the library.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  Or risk, a little world domination. I lean that direction.

• 12:33George Kamel?

  Versus real life, like, that's too boring.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  It's a little boring for me.

• 12:35George Kamel?

  What kind of job do you have? Who cares? What kind of car do you drive? Who cares?

• 12:39Speaker 01

  But I want to play your version.

• 12:40Rachel Cruze?

  And I feel like we play it a lot, like even on The Ramsey Show. People give us scenarios. Do I do this or do I do that? And so, we're gonna, yeah, throw some, uh, throw some scenarios out there. Okay, you ready?

• 12:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:50Rachel Cruze?

  You're 18 years old. You just graduated from high school. Do you take the college path, pay a hundred thousand dollars in tuition, earn a degree, have a higher salary earning potential? Or take the career path, skip college, start earning a lower income, but start earning sooner?

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Option B, um, with the caveat

• 13:13Rachel Cruze?

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  that if, if a degree is the only way to do what you want to do, uh, like if you want to be a doctor, then the system has already said you, you gotta have it.

• 13:23Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  Uh, but if it were me, and I assume the question is thrown to me, uh, no chance of me being a doctor, uh, I, I'm gonna get started right away. I think experience, uh, long-term is gonna make you more money. So I think the four-year head start is what I'm basically saying.

• 13:40Rachel Cruze?

  Yep.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  Uh, it helps me in a variety of ways. I mature a little bit faster and better. I feel like I get a jump start on, you know, investing, if we want to play the money game. And I think that I move up the ladder faster. So I'm always going to be the efficiency guy. That's how I'm wired. I, if there is a shorter route, that's the one I'm taking.

• 14:03Rachel Cruze?

  I love, I love shortcuts.

• 14:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:06George Kamel?

  I'm intrigued by this scenario, Ken. Because this is assuming you know kind of what you want to do.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  That's correct.

• 14:11George Kamel?

  Because a lot of people, would you say a lot of people go to college because they just don't know yet? And it's sort of buying some time very expensively to figure it out?

• 14:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay, but let's say this, okay? Let's say that you don't know what you want to do and a lot of kids will pick like a communications or a business degree. It's a very, there we go. Okay, so wow, I didn't even do any research. This is great. It's rare that I look as smart. All right, so let's take both of you. So those are good general degrees and Kiplinger says all these are good degrees and they're versatile and all the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Here's the deal though. It's like, okay, I'm gonna go get in sales. Because if you want to be in communications or you want to be in business, sales is a part of the deal either way.

• 14:49George Kamel?

  And you can do that without a degree.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  If I want to be a good salesperson, I get better as a communicator. If I'm gonna be in business, I need to understand revenue generation. So for me, it's like get the kid out there and let them get some hard knocks and learn how to sell, learn how to hear no, learn how to celebrate a win, learn how to prospect, learn how to build a pipeline. I could make the case about why that's a better decision.

• 15:09Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, okay, so I'm gonna say the only pro, no, not the only, I'm sorry. One of the pros to college is I'm like, you're 18 years old. Like you're still a kid. And if you have the funds to be able to go to college, whether it's a scholarship, grant, parents, that 18 to 21 year old phase of life, I feel like you grow up so much in it and still being in somewhat of a system that's kind of guiding you in that and you're getting educated, you're learning.

• 15:31Speaker 01

  How much guidance are kids getting in college? I'm gonna place devil's advocate here.

• 15:35Rachel Cruze?

  From like a schedule perspective, though, of what you have to do.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  These kids are getting hammered.

• 15:39Rachel Cruze?

  Well, no, I'm not talking about their extra, I'm not talking about their extracurricular activities.

• 15:43George Kamel?

  I'm not talking about Rachel's personal college experience, Ken.

• 15:45Speaker 01

  I think it's sanctioned irresponsibility in the guise of growing up. And I say, how much better can we grow up if we throw these kids to the real world?

• 15:54Rachel Cruze?

  See, I think you can be at the real world at 21.

• 15:56George Kamel?

  Okay, let me go with the in-between.

• 15:57Rachel Cruze?

  I'm going, I'm going to college.

• 15:58George Kamel?

  I say, go to Europe. You can do that for 10 grand and you'll have way more, you'll be way more cultured.

• 16:04Speaker 01

  Big time.

• 16:04George Kamel?

  Than going to college.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  Love Georgia's idea, better than yours.

• 16:07George Kamel?

  At UT.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, go learn how to freaking live in Portugal.

• 16:10Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, we disagree.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  There's definitely no, there's no one stop shop.

• 16:14Rachel Cruze?

  No, I do think.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  I'm not anti-college.

• 16:16Rachel Cruze?

  And I do, and I do think going to some like crazy expensive private school for a general degree going, I mean, all of that, I think is silly. I think you need to be smart about it. That's why I do love in-state colleges, a community college, like be smart about it.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Keep in mind, my oldest is in Chicago right now at a very expensive ritzy film school, film school. So, okay, you know, I'm just telling you what I would do.

• 16:39Rachel Cruze?

  Fair. All right.

• 16:40George Kamel?

  That is very fair.

• 16:41Rachel Cruze?

  Next scenario, George.

• 16:42George Kamel?

  All right. Question number two, you're offered a promotion that doubles your pay, but it's in a city you think you'll hate. Do you take the promotion and higher pay because you can always move back? Or do you choose contentment and stay because if it ain't broke, don't fix it?

• 16:56Speaker 01

  It depends on where I'm at financially. If I'm in debt or I need to be saving money for a house and I want to fast forward the process of A, getting out of debt or saving for something very important and thus not getting into bad debt. I'm going to take the pay raise in a city that I'm not thrilled about. And it comes down to this theory, and this isn't my language, but somebody once said it, do what you have to do so you can do what you want to do. And so I would absolutely, if I needed the money, if this were fast forwarding my life financially, I'll take the double pay in a city I don't want to be in. And the answer is in your question because I can always move back. Freedom is huge.

• 17:37Speaker 01

  And sometimes we have to take the better paying job, pay our dues, if you will, to have the life we want.

• 17:43Rachel Cruze?

  That's good. And you know what's crazy is how fast time does go. So you talk about three to four years.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  Great point.

• 17:50Rachel Cruze?

  That just flies. I mean, honestly, now if you have to be there for 20 years or something, I don't know if I'd want to play. Yeah. But if it's like for, for even three years, think about it, 2023, it's just here. And look at us now in 2026.

• 18:02Speaker 01

  I love the eye blink. You really sold it. I wasn't sure until you went.

• 18:05George Kamel?

  It's a guy dreaming of genie.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  2023, it's gone. And I was like, she's right. Where did 2024 go?

• 18:12George Kamel?

  Well, an important part we're leaving out here is your stage of life. You know, are you in your early twenties and single? Or are you forty-four, married with a couple of kids? That's a much harder sell. There's other people involved, there's schools, there's the spouse's job.

• 18:25Speaker 01

  George, let me point out, for your young kids, watch me right now. They're gonna, they're gonna be teenagers.

• 18:31George Kamel?

  In a blink of an eye, they'll be three years older.

• 18:32Rachel Cruze?

  In the blink of an eye. That's what I was doing.

• 18:34George Kamel?

  So that's my take.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Favorite part of the show, right there.

• 18:36George Kamel?

  I'm gonna move to the city if I'm single and there's less people involved, a hundred percent of the time. Now, here's the other question. What city would you hate to live in, Ken?

• 18:46Speaker 01

  Of all the cities in America?

• 18:47George Kamel?

  What's a city you think you would hate to live in?

• 18:49Rachel Cruze?

  And we're sorry for whoever lives there.

• 18:51George Kamel?

  Yeah, this is not throwing shade at people who live in those cities, just not Ken's preference.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  Milwaukee.

• 18:56George Kamel?

  Oh.

• 18:56Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, yeah.

• 18:57George Kamel?

  What's that, what's it about Milwaukee?

• 18:58Speaker 01

  Don't know, I just picked a city. I think Wisconsin?

• 19:02Rachel Cruze?

  Detroit, Detroit is tough.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  Detroit would be tough, my mom's from there.

• 19:06George Kamel?

  Is it a sports thing for you?

• 19:08Speaker 01

  No, I just thought, climate?

• 19:10Rachel Cruze?

  Cold.

• 19:11Speaker 01

  Uh, is huge for me. I am a southerner, and my, half my family lives in Michigan. I'm a Michigan football fan, everybody knows this about me, but I gotta tell you.

• 19:20George Kamel?

  You're not moving to Michigan?

• 19:21Speaker 01

  I am a fair weather fellow.

• 19:23Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, can I say this? I think West Texas would be hard, like a small town up there.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  I'll tell ya.

• 19:27Rachel Cruze?

  Like Midland, Odessa?

• 19:28Speaker 01

  We did an event in Midland, I, God love you folks, I guess you're setting me up to get hate mail here. I won't read it, by the way. No way I'm living in West Texas.

• 19:36Rachel Cruze?

  That's hard, that's a hard city.

• 19:37Speaker 01

  I'll tell ya where else I'm not gonna live.

• 19:38Rachel Cruze?

  You look out, literally, and there's no-

• 19:40Speaker 01

  Nothing, as far as the eye can see.

• 19:41Rachel Cruze?

  And it's not even like, green grass pastures.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  I wanna revise my answer.

• 19:46George Kamel?

  Okay.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  Number one city in America I don't wanna live in, Des Moines, Iowa.

• 19:50George Kamel?

  Oh, wow.

• 19:51Rachel Cruze?

  I love Des Moines.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  Des Moines is awful.

• 19:53Rachel Cruze?

  Des Moines is actually wonderful.

• 19:54Speaker 01

  It's as flat as its floor. It's fifty below zero right now.

• 19:58George Kamel?

  Maybe Ankeny, but not Des Moines.

• 19:59Rachel Cruze?

  No, Des Moines is not bad.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  I'm going to Des Moines.

• 20:01Rachel Cruze?

  Ankeny, Akron, Akron's tough.

• 20:03George Kamel?

  Akron, Ohio.

• 20:05Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, Des Moines is actually, I don't mind Des Moines. We went on a live event there, and I'm being like, oh, this city's like, cute.

• 20:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, what time of year was it?

• 20:13Rachel Cruze?

  True.

• 20:14George Kamel?

  It was nice weather.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  Thank you very much.

• 20:16Rachel Cruze?

  True.

• 20:17George Kamel?

  I digress, but that conversation grenade was a lot of fun.

• 20:19Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, if you're gonna hate us in the comments.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  Tough to put me on the spot there. There was no research involved in that. That was just off the cuff.

• 20:25George Kamel?

  Oh. I was gonna say upstate New York. I just feel like upstate New York would be a tough life.

• 20:30Rachel Cruze?

  Like a Buffalo?

• 20:31George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  Oh, Buffalo.

• 20:33George Kamel?

  You know what I mean? Just, it's a tough life. You're mostly in blizzards.

• 20:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:37George Kamel?

  Very in snow.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  But at least you have

• 20:40Rachel Cruze?

  The Bills.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  one of the seven wonders of the world. You got nothing in Des Moines but a sandwich shop.

• 20:44George Kamel?

  What's the wonder? Niagara?

• 20:45Speaker 01

  Niagara Falls.

• 20:46George Kamel?

  Yeah. But you share it. It's a shared space.

• 20:50Speaker 01

  But it's close by.

• 20:51Rachel Cruze?

  Shared space.

• 20:52Speaker 01

  There's nothing close by to Des Moines that you'll wanna see.

• 20:55Rachel Cruze?

  Y'all, Des Moines is not bad. I don't know why y'all hate Des Moines so much.

• 20:59George Kamel?

  I can't wait for the comment section to be like, Ken hates me.

• 21:02Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  I'm telling you.

• 21:04Rachel Cruze?

  Do you know what else is super stressful?

• 21:06George Kamel?

  What's that?

• 21:06Rachel Cruze?

  It's having all of your info online and not realizing where it is.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  Oof.

• 21:11Rachel Cruze?

  That, so that's why we love Delete Me.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  I love to be deleted.

• 21:14Rachel Cruze?

  Delete me off the internet.

• 21:16George Kamel?

  Ken loves to not be found.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  I don't.

• 21:18Rachel Cruze?

  It's true, yeah.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  Just delete me, no problem.

• 21:21Rachel Cruze?

  Because all of our info is out there and you don't realize it, but all the like newsletters you sign up for and coupons, like all the things.

• 21:27George Kamel?

  Sold, shared, traded, like Pokemon cards out there.

• 21:30Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, all your info's out there. And then it goes on these data broker websites, and then the data brokers sell your data. Then you get spammed and texts and emails and all of it.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  I am not data. Thank you very much.

• 21:40Rachel Cruze?

  That's right, so, yeah.

• 21:41Speaker 01

  Thankfully, our friends at Delete Me treat me like a human.

• 21:44Rachel Cruze?

  They do, ain't it?

• 21:45George Kamel?

  And there's real humans behind the scenes deleting your info for you, and they send you a great PDF report every few months.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  Best part of Delete Me? They keep you off those lists, too.

• 21:53George Kamel?

  They don't just get you off one time. They keep rechecking. My favorite part.

• 21:56Rachel Cruze?

  We love that. They keep at it.

• 21:58George Kamel?

  What you got to lose? Go check them out and make privacy goals one of your goals in 2026. Go to joindelete.me/smartmoney and you'll get 20% off their annual plans. We'll also drop a link in the description below.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  I wish they could delete me from your cellphone.

• 22:12George Kamel?

  My cellphone?

• 22:13Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 22:13George Kamel?

  I'll always have your contact.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  I get the obnoxious texts from George sometimes.

• 22:16George Kamel?

  That was a mistake you made.

• 22:17Rachel Cruze?

  What is that?

• 22:18George Kamel?

  Back in 2012.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  I'm making that up, not at all. George is great. I don't want to be deleted at all.

• 22:22George Kamel?

  Well, there's a send later feature on iPhone and so I'll schedule a text to Ken in the middle of the night just to troll him.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  Which Ramsey personality is most likely to FaceTime you for a fun fact?

• 22:32George Kamel?

  Ken Coleman.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  Thank you very much.

• 22:34George Kamel?

  Which gives me such anxiety.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  I do love a FaceTime.

• 22:38Rachel Cruze?

  Uh, Deloney will FaceTime, you'll FaceTime, like especially if you have someone.

• 22:41Speaker 01

  Sometimes I get Rachel Winston both to accept, but I always FaceTime for a good reason.

• 22:46George Kamel?

  That's true.

• 22:46Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, there, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 22:47George Kamel?

  I try to accept whenever I have.

• 22:48Speaker 01

  It's not a wasted FaceTime. It's not like, hey, how you guys doing? It's not that.

• 22:53Rachel Cruze?

  No.

• 22:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:54Rachel Cruze?

  You tried FaceTiming the other day with someone you met, loved, spent money, happier.

• 22:58George Kamel?

  Oh, that's right.

• 22:59Rachel Cruze?

  And you were like, let's FaceTime Rachel, see if we can get on the phone.

• 23:01George Kamel?

  It feels like an easy surprise and delight, but she screams my calls.

• 23:04Speaker 01

  Do you get nervous when I FaceTime you?

• 23:05George Kamel?

  No, I don't get nervous. I'm usually just not in a place where I could FaceTime, you know? Like I'm putting the baby down or something.

• 23:12Rachel Cruze?

  He's just so busy, you know?

• 23:13George Kamel?

  I'm a dad, Ken.

• 23:14Rachel Cruze?

  George has a, has a busy life.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  As am I.

• 23:17George Kamel?

  All right. This is where things start to heat up.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 23:20George Kamel?

  You land your dream role, but it pays less than your current job. Do you take the job because your fulfillment is worth more than any money lost? Or do you follow the money and stick with your current gig? Staying stable in this economy is paramount.

• 23:34Speaker 01

  Simple caveat here. If I can absorb the pay cut in order to get the dream job, in other words, can I change my lifestyle to be able to absorb it? If I can't, no, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to have to say, uh, I have to be a mature adult and press pause and say, not now. So, you know, we've had those calls come in on the Ramsey Show. I've taken those calls on the Ken Coleman Show years ago and that's my answer every time.

• 24:00George Kamel?

  Is the financial reality?

• 24:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm okay with you going backwards if you're, you can change your life to be able to do so.

• 24:08George Kamel?

  And are you saying it's temporary? Cause I've heard you say, hey, you're, yeah, you might go backwards, but don't let it be forever.

• 24:15George Kamel?

  Financially.

• 24:15Speaker 01

  Uh, well, yes. So let's just take the real numbers. Let's take the Ramsey millionaire study, largest millionaire study ever done, 10,000 everyday millionaires. And the fourth group are teachers. And you take the, I think the median, you guys can check me on this, but not too long ago, the median salary in the United States for teachers, $64,000. So if your dream job is to be a teacher, and you were in pharmaceutical sales, but

• 24:39George Kamel?

  Making hundreds of thousands.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. And to drop back to 64, I mean, I get that that's controversial to some, but for me, I go, if that's what you really want to do, and it makes your life really, really complete, and that it's meaningful work, then you've got to adjust your lifestyle. And so if you can adjust your lifestyle, we've proven that you can be an everyday millionaire, making that. So that's what I'm saying. I'm very tactical about it.

• 25:03Rachel Cruze?

  Is there research around, so yeah, use that same example, and say you could have gone on X number of vacations, bought X type of car, whatever, with all this money as in pharmaceutical sales. And then you go backwards. Is there any data of like going down in lifestyle, but up with satisfaction of work?

• 25:20Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 25:20Rachel Cruze?

  Is a happier life net positive?

• 25:23Speaker 01

  It's a great book. I can reference it.

• 25:25Rachel Cruze?

  Working, yeah, a job you hate, but you get to buy things.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  A guy by the name of Poe Bronson, respected member of the media, wrote a book called What Should I Do With My Life? It was a runaway bestseller, and he basically went and interviewed all these people that left higher paying jobs to downshift their life a little bit. But it wasn't just money. It was meaning. It was lifestyle. So, yeah, I mean, I tell you, I have sat with, sat across the table with, you know, New York executives who are sitting there going, Ken, I'm absolutely miserable. And I say, well, what would life look like if you could paint it really quickly? And they describe a life that is less money, but that's the start of it. What's below the less money is a very different life.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  So there's no question, there's tons of data about meaningful work. And so what you have to do there is, again, you have to change your lifestyle. Financially to take a pay cut. So if you're willing to do that, I'm all for it. But if you're $250,000 in debt, I'm not gonna say this is a good idea for you to take your dream job.

• 26:31Rachel Cruze?

  Totally. It reminds me, well, there was like, okay, back in the day, you know, when you get four words from emails?

• 26:37Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 26:37Rachel Cruze?

  This is one of those. It stuck with me. Y'all, y'all probably have heard it. I think it's like a, I mean, it's a fake story. But if like a fisherman in a small town, let's say in Spain, have you heard this?

• 26:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:47Rachel Cruze?

  Have you heard this? Okay.

• 26:48Speaker 01

  No, I haven't.

• 26:49Rachel Cruze?

  Okay. And he's like a small, in a small town and he like plays music at night with his friends, you know? Yeah. Has a couple glasses of wine, hangs out with his family and goes to bed, wakes up, does it again, does it again. And well, a tourist came by, an American tourist and was like, you could triple this business if you got another fishing boat and hired more people. And he was like, oh, okay. Then what? He's like, well, then you get a fleet and then you can actually expand into other countries very easily. You would be that and you'd be making quadruple this. He's like, okay, and then what then? He's like, and then you sell it and you make all this money. And he's like, then what? He's like, well, then you get to play music with your friends at night and drink beer and hang out with your family. And he's like, but I'm already kind of, I'm kind of already doing that, you know?

• 27:29Speaker 01

  It's a great story.

• 27:30Rachel Cruze?

  Same idea, right? Of like what you're chasing and what you're wanting. And, and I think the truth of like our stuff is fun. You know, we're never against stuff around, we are great with you getting great cars and doing great trips, all of it. But it doesn't sat, like there's something about the meaning of life with relationships, your contribution to the world. Like there are these big things in life that really do bring satisfaction. And it's not all just like the little stuff.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  Glad you did that. I think this, if I could give anybody one question to wrestle with over the next 30 days. It's what do you want your day to look like?

• 28:00Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 28:01Speaker 01

  Write that down for 30 straight days. What do you want the day to look like? And I think you might throw a lot of stuff and I want to be at the country club or I wanted this. But I think if you keep doing that, by about day 10, 11, 12, you start to really drill down on what do I want a day to look like? And it's a lot cheaper than you think.

• 28:20Rachel Cruze?

  Yep.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  That's what I would put out there.

• 28:21George Kamel?

  That's good. So the question asked is, I like that. And then what? Cause that causes you to drill down into what you're really wanting. Cause if it's a nice car and a, and a flex life, eventually you're going to realize that was an empty goal.

• 28:32Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 28:33George Kamel?

  What I'm hearing you say, Ken, is you would be willing to take a pay cut to do your dream job, which I assume is pickleball instructor at the old folks home. You'd be willing to take the pay cut.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  I will tell you, when I'm in my seventies, that is a dream job because I'll be communicating and coaching.

• 28:47George Kamel?

  With people, it's a captive audience. They literally can't go anywhere.

• 28:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 28:51George Kamel?

  They're forced to listen to you.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  It's a funny setup, but it's actually some great truth there. My whole thing to everybody is I believe God created us to do unique work. And it's wired to us, like it's our personalities, our experience. And I do think there's something to be said for doing something that you actually really enjoy. And you don't have to do it, but you actually want to do it. I think if we just simplify it, that's the goal. And you know, I'm, I'm into this whole blue zone thing. Have you seen this doc, this documentary?

• 29:20Rachel Cruze?

  No.

• 29:20Speaker 01

  This guy went out and studied the blue zones where people live longer.

• 29:24Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, yeah. Well, there is quoted in the comfort crisis.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, there's just something to be said.

• 29:29Rachel Cruze?

  It's fascinating.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's something to be said for doing something that's strenuous and some hard work that you enjoy. And then like you're done with it and you eat a good meal and you spend time with good. And I'll tell you, I'm the oldest of this group, obviously. The older I get, and I'm middle aged now, I'm 51. And I've achieved a lot of the things that I wanted to achieve. And I'll tell you, sitting here right now, um, for me, I'm now focused on enough. What's the, what's enough? In other words, what's comfort look like to take care of my family? And outside of that, it's like, who am I having dinner with?

• 30:05Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  What are the activities that I want to do? And you all know me, I'm not a keep up with the Joneses. Hey guys on Instagram.

• 30:13George Kamel?

  You don't even know how to do that luckily.

• 30:14Speaker 01

  I don't even know how to do it. But I do think that like, what, like a good meal and a good conversation with good people? That's a dream life.

• 30:25Rachel Cruze?

  And if you had that consistently.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  And I do.

• 30:27Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  Good conversations, good food, good people.

• 30:31George Kamel?

  Ken does it in real life, Rachel's on Marco Polo.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  You know what I didn't add? Good cocktail.

• 30:36George Kamel?

  That's true.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  So what does it cost you? To spend enough time with good people over good food with a good cocktail.

• 30:44Rachel Cruze?

  I'm telling you, relationships at the bottom of it all. It's what people crave.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  If I had every 21 year old dude sitting in front of me, I'd go, figure that out.

• 30:52Rachel Cruze?

  Yep.

• 30:53George Kamel?

  It's a craft of life that gets you to that result.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  It's a good life.

• 30:56Rachel Cruze?

  Great life. Yep.

• 30:57George Kamel?

  I'm telling you, this is a free show, but people should be paying for this level of wisdom.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  I don't know if that's true.

• 31:03Rachel Cruze?

  Is any of the Blue Zones, there was something in the Comfort Crisis that was fascinating. It's about the, it kind of goes into cold plunging. But these women that fish.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:11Rachel Cruze?

  It's off of a, it's in Asia. I can't even remember, but they go into some of the coldest water, but they like literally will fish, they'll dive in.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  Oh, they're in the water?

• 31:18Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, these women, and they're, they're like, some of them in their seventies and eighties, but they have the best lung capacity of anyone in the world. Like when they study all these different parts.

• 31:26George Kamel?

  That's why they live so long.

• 31:27Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, all of it. And you're like, but to your point, the suffering creates such beautiful results, which is the gospel, right? We could go on and on and on, but it's true. Like there's something in that that's so real and we try so hard to avoid the hardship. Where the hardship is the way.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  It's the magic.

• 31:43Rachel Cruze?

  It's the way.

• 31:43Speaker 01

  Rachel just nailed that, by the way. She crushed that. It's hard things that's doable. Not hard things that are impossible, hard things that are doable, and then turn it off.

• 31:52George Kamel?

  But culture, is culture pushing against the hard things going, no, no, no, I want the easy path?

• 31:57Speaker 01

  Everything's about the frickin'.

• 31:58George Kamel?

  Cause they're saying life is already hard, Ken. Why would you want me to do more hard things?

• 32:02Speaker 01

  Because you appreciate that butter spread when you churned it.

• 32:07George Kamel?

  That Sound of Music really, really affected you.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  That was a perfect reaction. That's exactly the reaction I wanted.

• 32:14George Kamel?

  You can't get ice cream without churning the butter. All right. Thanks, pops.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  Right now I go, I don't appreciate butter in my bread right now.

• 32:21Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 32:23George Kamel?

  I'd rather have free ice cream.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  You better believe I would appreciate it.

• 32:27Rachel Cruze?

  All right, y'all. If you spin the wheel on the little board, if you can imagine.

• 32:30Speaker 01

  Do we have a wheel here?

• 32:31Rachel Cruze?

  No, I wish we did.

• 32:32Speaker 01

  Let me do it. Can't afford it. Okay.

• 32:35Rachel Cruze?

  And land on a work bonus that could go towards a big expense on your list. Do you A. replace, pay to replace your vehicle? Or B. fix the foundation issues on your house?

• 32:49Speaker 01

  Those are my only options?

• 32:51Rachel Cruze?

  According to this game of life, it is.

• 32:52George Kamel?

  Well, I guess you gotta fix the foundation.

• 32:54Speaker 01

  Good heavens, I feel like a schmuck if I go get a better car. But I got a crack in my foundation and at 3:00 in the morning, I get out of the bed to, you know, go to the potty and all of a sudden the whole house lurches left. Feel like a real idiot.

• 33:07Rachel Cruze?

  We don't want that.

• 33:08Speaker 01

  I don't want that.

• 33:09Rachel Cruze?

  You got a good car in the driveway.

• 33:10Speaker 01

  All I wanted to do was pee. And now the whole house is to the left. I feel like that's a problem. So, I mean, that wasn't like a really tough choice.

• 33:19George Kamel?

  Foundation for you.

• 33:22Rachel Cruze?

  I think it has.

• 33:22Speaker 01

  I've got all kinds of metaphors.

• 33:24George Kamel?

  And I assume the vehicle is running. That's the other question here. Like, is it a quick fix? How much is the bonus? You know, there's further questioning I have.

• 33:30Speaker 01

  I'm gonna Uber before I live on a house that's got a crack foundation.

• 33:34George Kamel?

  Yeah, for the sake of this argument, foundation issues across the board.

• 33:37Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, and if you have to replace the car, remember, do it with cash. Be smart, right?

• 33:42George Kamel?

  Don't go crazy and go take out a loan just because the dealership told you you can afford the payment.

• 33:46Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, no.

• 33:47George Kamel?

  That's how they get you.

• 33:48Rachel Cruze?

  It's unbelievable. Well, George, I can tell you in our house, you know what we've been using a ton of?

• 33:52George Kamel?

  What's that?

• 33:52Rachel Cruze?

  The cuddle blanket from Cozy Earth.

• 33:54George Kamel?

  It's that time of year.

• 33:55Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, my gosh, Cozy Earth, the blankets, the bedding, the sheets, everything about it. The towels, the towels. Have you had the new towels?

• 34:03George Kamel?

  The new Luxe towels. Like, my life is pretty hard right now and that towel is so soft that it all balances out.

• 34:08Rachel Cruze?

  Actually, we got a DM, someone DM'd both of us.

• 34:11George Kamel?

  That's right.

• 34:12Rachel Cruze?

  About the towels.

• 34:12George Kamel?

  They sent us a picture of the Luxe towels and they're like, I finally got rid of my dingy old towels. I upgraded thanks to you guys and it made my day.

• 34:19Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, oh, they are amazing, you guys, absolutely amazing. And the Baja collection with the sheets and the bedding, it's beautiful. So Cozy Earth always is bringing out some incredible things, products that are quality, but also incredible, like from the texture to the look of it, all of it.

• 34:36George Kamel?

  The durability.

• 34:37Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, so get some quality things in your life and make sure to check out Cozy Earth.

• 34:40George Kamel?

  And just for our Smart Money Happy Hour listeners, you can get up to 20% off when you go to cozylearth.com/smartmoney and use promo code SMARTMONEY to get an even better deal. Ken, I told you it's heating up. This is what I'm talking about. You spin the wheel and you're laid off. Which side hustle are you starting tomorrow? You work in retail at a strategic store where you can get a discount? Looking at Vineyard Vines for you, most likely? Or not Vineyard Vines. Or are you gonna live on savings and launch your freelance career online?

• 35:09Speaker 01

  Well, I'm not doing that. Let's just, that, we hear that, we get that call a lot on The Ramsey Show, all of us. And, you know, that's, that's such a bad play because we have urgency is what we're dealing with. And we, we tend to go, oh, well, I've been kicked out of the nest. And so now I'm gonna go into the ideal. And ideal needs to stay over here. We've got problems, we've got real issues, so I'm gonna go urgency. So I don't know if it's the retail, but out of the two options, that's what I'm gonna do. But the real advice I would give somebody is, based on your work experience and your skillset, let's go look for freelance opportunities. The best bang for your buck with your time is where I've got a transferable skill.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  And I'm gonna see if I can get some type of contract work. Getting in the car and driving Uber is probably not the best exchange of your time. So it goes back to the old time is money, which is true. And I think when you're trying to ideate and you're in a scramble, but, but, but pause long enough to go, okay, where can I get the best exchange for my time? And at least try that. You can always jump in the Uber and do the delivery and I'm not knocking that. But let's at least look at, if I have some professional skills.

• 36:21George Kamel?

  Maximizing your dollar per hour.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I want to at least maximize that.

• 36:24Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, no, I agree. Or bang for your buck, if you will.

• 36:27George Kamel?

  Well, and the living on savings always frightens me because I'm going, you're, you're gonna turn this cushion into a whoopee cushion.

• 36:31Speaker 01

  What's my number one pet peeve? You know, to answer that, my number one pet peeve on The Ramsey Show is when we get calls where people use the emergency fund for things that I don't think they should use it for. I think you use it when your AC goes out. Okay? When you lose a job, I'm gonna try to do everything in my power not to touch the emergency fund. If that's working three jobs, I'm gonna go do that. Now, I'm not saying that's fundamentally correct, but I'm telling you philosophically, I get irritated. I go, don't touch the emergency fund when you lose your job. If you, if you can keep from it, go work while you're applying.

• 37:03Rachel Cruze?

  Keep it, keep the momentum going.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  Keep making some money.

• 37:06Rachel Cruze?

  Because after two or three months, that drains.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  Goes quick.

• 37:08Rachel Cruze?

  So fast.

• 37:09George Kamel?

  And then you got a whole thing to build back up, once you even do have a job.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  Great point. So the, I'm, I'm not for touching the emergency fund. If you can keep from it, when you lose a job.

• 37:18Rachel Cruze?

  That's good. Love it, love it. All right, next. Uh, you won an inheritance. You won it.

• 37:25George Kamel?

  I don't think you win.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  You can win the lottery, but you can't win.

• 37:29Rachel Cruze?

  I know. Well, this one. This is the game of life. Oh, maybe that's what that's maybe that's what that means. You draw the card and you have won.

• 37:38George Kamel?

  Perfect.

• 37:40Rachel Cruze?

  Of twenty five thousand dollars in stocks from a relative. What do you do with the money?

• 37:44Speaker 01

  Twenty five thousand. Do I have debt?

• 37:47Rachel Cruze?

  I don't know. I would say that. Apply it to the baby steps. I think.

• 37:50Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. You know, I'm gonna go there.

• 37:52Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 37:52George Kamel?

  So if you have debt, let's pay off the consumer debt. If you don't have your emergency fund, let's stack the emergency fund. And if you're good on that, we can. It opens things up.

• 38:02Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 38:04Rachel Cruze?

  No debt and.

• 38:06Rachel Cruze?

  Now what do we do?

• 38:06Speaker 01

  That's my favorite one.

• 38:07Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, now what do we do?

• 38:10George Kamel?

  Well, number one, we need to sell the stocks. I think we need to talk about that.

• 38:13Speaker 01

  Cash in. I want the cash and we're gonna celebrate. We're gonna do something fun. Hate to see Uncle Larry go. He was awesome. He was my favorite uncle, but he gave me twenty five thousand. And so we're gonna take a trip. Uh, it's one of my favorite lines in Four Christmases with Vince Vaughn. We take the trips. I think I'm gonna take a trip in this scenario. Uh, we're gonna make a memory. Call all the kids, cause my kids are older now, twenty, eighteen, seventeen. I'm gonna go, we're gonna make a memory. So that's what I'm doing with some of the twenty five and then I wanna.

• 38:46Rachel Cruze?

  That can go fast on a trip.

• 38:49Speaker 01

  I got two things I'm gonna try to do. I'm gonna see what that trip, you know, I'm gonna decide and I'm either gonna spend it all or I'm gonna spend some of it on a memory and then get ahead of it. So we use it to invest in something. Whatever. I think that would be my, the top two options. Do I wanna invest this? Or do I wanna spend it for a memory? And I think twenty five grand at Baby Step Four and Beyond. Let's honor Uncle Larry.

• 39:14Rachel Cruze?

  Get a memory.

• 39:15Speaker 01

  Let's go to Portugal.

• 39:18Speaker 01

  Spain. Let's run with the bulls. I don't, I don't wanna run with the bulls. I don't know why I said that.

• 39:23Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, we don't wanna do.

• 39:24George Kamel?

  I could see you wanting to like cosplay and dress it up, you know?

• 39:28Speaker 01

  That would be me. I would dress up.

• 39:31Speaker 01

  But I would never actually, like I would have an ankle injury right before the whole thing started. I go, guys, I'm out.

• 39:37George Kamel?

  And true, plus you look great in white pants. I think that's a plus.

• 39:40Speaker 01

  And a red scarf, I might add.

• 39:42George Kamel?

  I told you, he wants to cosplay.

• 39:44Rachel Cruze?

  Loves it.

• 39:44George Kamel?

  That's good. Twenty-five grand, selling the stocks.

• 39:46Speaker 01

  What do you do with twenty-five grand?

• 39:48George Kamel?

  Well, number one, we gotta look at the tax implications of selling these stocks.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  Oh, you're so boring.

• 39:51George Kamel?

  Number two, I gotta talk to my spouse.

• 39:53Speaker 01

  Oh, geez.

• 39:53George Kamel?

  Look at our, our family goals. I'm not gonna make decisions without her, Ken.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  You're not gonna surprise her with a great trip?

• 39:59George Kamel?

  I'm gonna probably, uh, I'm gonna give a portion of this, a healthy portion to the needy.

• 40:04Speaker 01

  Really?

• 40:05George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Are you?

• 40:06Rachel Cruze?

  He's just our little angel.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're gonna give some of it? Uncle Larry twenty-five?

• 40:10George Kamel?

  I would give some of it. I would spend some of it, and I'd probably, like, fully fund IRAs for the year. So I'm probably gonna do a mix of all three, so I feel balanced.

• 40:19Speaker 01

  I would assume you're already doing that.

• 40:20Rachel Cruze?

  He's really fun.

• 40:22George Kamel?

  I'm just saying, in a hypothetical scenario. But no, twenty-five grand, that's, Whitney says, do whatever you want with it, and you don't have to do anything.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  Will you please humor us? I think the audience who loves you wants to know, if you didn't have to do all of those things, George, if you were gonna have fun, would you please tell us what you would do with twenty-five?

• 40:39George Kamel?

  A skateboard? That's two hundred bucks.

• 40:40Rachel Cruze?

  Don't you love skateboards?

• 40:41George Kamel?

  Yeah, I did that. It's two hundred bucks.

• 40:43Rachel Cruze?

  By twenty-five thousand.

• 40:44George Kamel?

  We have twenty-four thousand eight hundred left over.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  George, the audience wants to know, what would you do for fun with twenty-five thousand?

• 40:49George Kamel?

  I would do a trip to Disney, which would burn most of that money.

• 40:52Rachel Cruze?

  That's what we like to hear.

• 40:53George Kamel?

  And, truthfully, probably buy a nice guitar that would sit on a wall, that my wife would be angry about later. Like, I knew you weren't gonna play it. But it'd be a nice guitar, and she'd be right.

• 41:03Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 41:03Speaker 01

  All right, I think the audience really wants to know what Rachel would do with twenty-five thousand, that she didn't have to do anything positive with.

• 41:08Rachel Cruze?

  I would do a trip.

• 41:10George Kamel?

  What about the Amazon shopping spree?

• 41:12Speaker 01

  Stop.

• 41:12George Kamel?

  You had to add twenty-five grand to cart to the.

• 41:14Rachel Cruze?

  Y'all, I, I spent more before Christmas.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 41:18Rachel Cruze?

  On myself.

• 41:18Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 41:19Rachel Cruze?

  Than I think I've ever spent.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  Can we get a number?

• 41:22Rachel Cruze?

  All right, we got, well, okay, that was, sorry, I made that really dramatic. I always, I have spent more on something, but they're like, they're kind of like a little bit flippant, where I'm like, huh. Cause I don't spend a lot, y'all, genuinely. Like, if my cart on Amazon's like a little over a hundred dollars, I'm like, hmm, what's in here? Like, what do we, like, I'm not a big dollar amount spender. I buy quantity, right? Like, I will buy, like, lots of earrings that are like seven ninety-nine.

• 41:46Speaker 01

  Really?

• 41:46Rachel Cruze?

  So I did, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't buy, like, super nice stuff. Like, if I buy something that's, like, over, I'm not kidding, over fifty, I'm like, all right, I'm buying this. But I did, y'all. I bought, are you ready? Should I, I'm gonna tell y'all.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  This is what people wanna know.

• 41:59Rachel Cruze?

  I bought the Dyson hairdryer.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  I hear the ladies in the, on the set going.

• 42:04George Kamel?

  If you know, you know.

• 42:05Rachel Cruze?

  Y'all have no idea.

• 42:06George Kamel?

  Is it the air wrap?

• 42:07Rachel Cruze?

  Let's just go, no, not the air wrap, just the, just the.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  Stop, George. You shouldn't know any of this.

• 42:11George Kamel?

  I know my Dyson products.

• 42:12Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 42:13Rachel Cruze?

  And it was a Black Friday sale. But how much do you think that hair dryer was?

• 42:17Speaker 01

  I don't know anything. Let me take a wild guess, because I don't know.

• 42:20George Kamel?

  I'll let you go first.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  I'm gonna say it's $600.

• 42:24Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, that makes me feel better. Down a little bit.

• 42:25George Kamel?

  I was gonna say, on sale for $450.

• 42:30Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 42:31Speaker 01

  That's because he probably, because George probably owns one.

• 42:34George Kamel?

  I don't. I didn't spring for that one, but.

• 42:37Rachel Cruze?

  Okay.

• 42:37George Kamel?

  I know that Norretails for about $600.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  How much do you spend on your hair dryer, George?

• 42:41George Kamel?

  My hair dryer, honestly, the latest one, Amazon, $50.

• 42:44Rachel Cruze?

  And I did it, though.

• 42:46Speaker 01

  Why is that insane?

• 42:47Rachel Cruze?

  $450 for a hair dryer?

• 42:49George Kamel?

  Ancestor's rolling in the grave over that.

• 42:51Rachel Cruze?

  It, it senses how close you are to your scalp.

• 42:54George Kamel?

  Is this what we go, is this the result?

• 42:55Rachel Cruze?

  It changes the temperature. Y'all, it is.

• 42:57George Kamel?

  Did you use it today?

• 42:58Speaker 01

  Your hair does look great.

• 42:59Rachel Cruze?

  I used it yesterday. I didn't wash my hair today. Every three days. But yesterday is my hair washing day.

• 43:04George Kamel?

  I mean, I'm impressed.

• 43:05Speaker 01

  Does it do well with extensions?

• 43:06Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, great. Everything's great about it, y'all. It's pretty awesome.

• 43:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. Do you know who does it?

• 43:10Rachel Cruze?

  I don't know if it's $450.

• 43:11George Kamel?

  Ken Coleman.

• 43:12Speaker 01

  Look at this, folks. Look at these locks. As the kids call it lettuce. No hair dryer. This is au naturel.

• 43:17George Kamel?

  That's kiln dried.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  I let it air dry.

• 43:20Rachel Cruze?

  What product do you use?

• 43:21Speaker 01

  Uh, crew.

• 43:22Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, yeah. I know it's, yeah.

• 43:23Speaker 01

  Just a little bit. I emulsify it in my hands, go through about four times, and that's it.

• 43:28George Kamel?

  Ken is mostly made of clay, so we put them in the kiln, just let them dry naturally.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  That's funny. I don't care who you are. Well played.

• 43:37George Kamel?

  He used the word kiln in the sentence.

• 43:38Speaker 01

  Kids made of clay.

• 43:39George Kamel?

  Kiln dried.

• 43:41Speaker 01

  I'm proud of the fact that I don't use a hair dryer.

• 43:43George Kamel?

  I'm gonna call you Kiln Coleman from now on.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  Kiln Coleman. That's right. By the way, speaking of that same area, I would wear a kilt if it were acceptable.

• 43:51George Kamel?

  I could actually see that, but I also know what your legs look like, which is a hate crime.

• 43:55Speaker 01

  They, they, they don't, they are very skinny.

• 43:57George Kamel?

  To let those puppies loose.

• 43:58Speaker 01

  I got basically, just, it's gristle. Just skin and no muscle. Yeah. It's unfortunate. But I come from a Scottish descent, and they wear them over there, but I would look silly in those things.

• 44:10George Kamel?

  You ever find like a chicken bone in the street? That's what my legs look like. Seen some things, it's like aged, starting to deform a little bit.

• 44:17Speaker 01

  That's what my legs look like. But they're very effective on the pickleball court.

• 44:20Rachel Cruze?

  But, yeah, but, but.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  I'm an athlete.

• 44:22Rachel Cruze?

  I know, muscled up because of pickleball?

• 44:24Speaker 01

  No.

• 44:25Rachel Cruze?

  Okay.

• 44:26Speaker 01

  It's all tendon and, and ligament. There's no muscle.

• 44:30George Kamel?

  His core is fantastic.

• 44:31Speaker 01

  Next up.

• 44:32Rachel Cruze?

  What is happening?

• 44:32George Kamel?

  Again, we are just warming up, Ken.

• 44:34Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 44:34George Kamel?

  In the game of life, would you rather be the breadwinner or the stay at home partner?

• 44:39Speaker 01

  Breadwinner.

• 44:39George Kamel?

  You get to choose.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  Breadwinner. I, I need pressure, number one, and number two, I need to get out of the house.

• 44:45Rachel Cruze?

  Mm hmm.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  That was an easy one.

• 44:47Rachel Cruze?

  Okay.

• 44:48Speaker 01

  Love my wife. She's amazing. I remember in COVID, thankfully here at Ramsey, we still came into work. And I just, it was a blessing for me.

• 44:56George Kamel?

  Because I just. Yes, they're crazy.

• 44:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 45:00George Kamel?

  Would Stacy force you to get out of the house after about two or three days?

• 45:03Speaker 01

  Probably.

• 45:04George Kamel?

  Cause you would get insufferable?

• 45:05Speaker 01

  I need to be moving and doing things and I think I'd probably irritate her with the desire, like, you know, I know for her, she loves, like she's a homebody. That's a good thing. One of my kids, probably two of my kids are. I, I need to be on the move.

• 45:21Rachel Cruze?

  I'm with you.

• 45:22George Kamel?

  All right, Rachel. What are you choosing?

• 45:24Rachel Cruze?

  If it's, it's like, you can't even do like half and half. It's all or nothing.

• 45:27George Kamel?

  All or nothing.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  That's a tough call here, cause you enjoy being a mom.

• 45:29Rachel Cruze?

  I like doing both. In this season, I'd be stay at home. If I had to pick.

• 45:34Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah.

• 45:36Rachel Cruze?

  I could fill my days, cause I have to turn down opportunities. It makes me sad. I love doing stuff at the kids' school.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 45:41Rachel Cruze?

  They have like Friday store. They have reader, Friday reader of your math card, your math flashcard volunteer. I'm like, there's so many signup geniuses at the kids' school. I'm like, I want to do it all.

• 45:49George Kamel?

  Sign up geniuses?

• 45:50Rachel Cruze?

  Well, like the signup genius, like the website, you know?

• 45:52George Kamel?

  Oh, that's what the link they send.

• 45:54Rachel Cruze?

  All the time with like different, I can't really do a lot of them. And I, and I do this season of life.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  I get it.

• 46:00Rachel Cruze?

  But fast forward four to five years, like when they hit high school, put me back in the studio, George.

• 46:04Speaker 01

  What, what's your answer?

• 46:06George Kamel?

  Um, I'm going breadwinner. And here's the thing, I'm very domestic. I love being at home, but I realize.

• 46:11Rachel Cruze?

  I could see you being a stay at home.

• 46:12George Kamel?

  And I'm great at it. I'm just not, I like the house manager part more than the engaging with child all day.

• 46:19Rachel Cruze?

  And being a dad.

• 46:20George Kamel?

  I get overstimulated.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  You're a manager, not a waiter.

• 46:23George Kamel?

  Yes. Like two kids crying at once, put me in an insane asylum. I'm useless.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:28George Kamel?

  But like, if I get to clean all day.

• 46:30Rachel Cruze?

  Try three kids.

• 46:31Speaker 01

  Oh, he has no idea.

• 46:32George Kamel?

  But if I get to like tidy up the house, light a nice candle, like the house would be immaculate when you got home.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  Basically, George was designed to be an empty nester.

• 46:40George Kamel?

  That's what I'm really angling at.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  Hey, life's gonna be great 25 years.

• 46:44George Kamel?

  I will crush it. I enjoy folding laundry.

• 46:46Rachel Cruze?

  Oh my gosh.

• 46:46George Kamel?

  You know, I like a clean sink.

• 46:47Rachel Cruze?

  You know what, I will say, the season y'all are in, y'all are in a hard, having a two-year-old and a newborn.

• 46:52George Kamel?

  Yeah, my wife stays at home for the record, and so I don't envy her for that.

• 46:56Rachel Cruze?

  Like, that's a hard, like, a two-year-old and a newborn is tough. That's a tough, tiring season.

• 47:01George Kamel?

  This phase of life, I'm like, being at work is easier from an energy level than being at home.

• 47:07Rachel Cruze?

  I would agree with that. Yep, totally.

• 47:09George Kamel?

  All right, glad we nailed that one.

• 47:10Rachel Cruze?

  You know, regardless if you are a stay-at-home parent or the breadwinner, money has to be part of your life, and keeping your money somewhere that you trust is so important. And that's why Winston and I love Fairwins.

• 47:21George Kamel?

  When it comes to world-class, Ken, no one does it better than Fairwins.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  Nobody.

• 47:25George Kamel?

  They're best-in-class, and they actually want to see their users get out of debt and stay out of debt, much like we do here at Ramsey, and that's why we partnered with them. We're on the same mission to help people become financially free, and they do that with their no-fee checking account, high-yield savings account, and their Ramsey branded debit card. We call it the Smart Bundle around here, and you can sign up, go get it for free when you go to fairwins.org/Ramsey. We'll also leave a link in the description.

• 47:50Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, and it's really easy as well to set it up. Like, even the app, it's so user-friendly.

• 47:55George Kamel?

  Five minutes on an app, and it was like, boop.

• 47:57Rachel Cruze?

  And all of it's there, yes. So, seriously, transferring your money somewhere that you know is safe, and it's with people behind the scenes that are for you, not against you when it comes to your money, that is Fairwins. So make sure to check them out. All right, you spin the wheel and can either take a job that pays double, but requires you to work on weekends, or pays a normal salary with Fridays off.

• 48:21George Kamel?

  So you're working four days versus seven?

• 48:23Speaker 01

  I hate to come back to my la-

• 48:24Rachel Cruze?

  It's where you are, yeah.

• 48:25Speaker 01

  Do I need the money to get out of debt or to save for something that's really important? Then I'm gonna double down, and I'm gonna do what I have to do in the now, so that I can do what I want to in the next. But I love the Fridays off. If you can afford it, I take the Fridays off. Because again, I think the quality of life goes up to the next level.

• 48:45Rachel Cruze?

  Yep, totally.

• 48:46George Kamel?

  So if you've got some financial foundation, I would 100% go with the four-day work week. Over the seven day work week.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  No question.

• 48:52George Kamel?

  Cause the thing is, how long can you do that for sustainably?

• 48:55Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, I was gonna say it's not sustainable.

• 48:56George Kamel?

  Without getting burnt out, you know, and then needing to quit.

• 48:59Speaker 01

  Can I throw a question back at you two? Let's say you guys are in the place, and you are in this scenario, where you don't have to work the extra day. What do you do on a four day work week? What's your Friday look like? George, what are you doing on your Friday?

• 49:15George Kamel?

  A little sleeping in. Run some errands. I love a.

• 49:19Speaker 01

  You love a good errand?

• 49:20George Kamel?

  I love a morning errand when people aren't out as much. And yet these days, when you go out in the morning, you're like, how are all these people here?

• 49:26Speaker 01

  What's your favorite errand? If you could only do one errand the rest of your life, what's your favorite?

• 49:30George Kamel?

  Oh my goodness. Favorite errand? I would say wandering around. No list, no plan, a Trader Joe's, a Costco, an Aldi, looking at the Aldi finds aisle, seeing the new seasonal items at a Trader Joe's. No one bothering me. Maybe headphones on.

• 49:46Speaker 01

  You're just gonna go with the best appetite find in the moment.

• 49:50George Kamel?

  It's very peaceful, therapeutic.

• 49:52Speaker 01

  I switch the question to the fair lady.

• 49:54Rachel Cruze?

  Realistic one for my life today. Okay. Perfect Friday. I'll be honest. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I am. Workout. Thirty minutes in the sauna. No interruptions. I love my children, but they always interrupt that time. And I would like, I'd like a.

• 50:12Rachel Cruze?

  Get kids ready, take them to school, come back, get back in bed, watch a documentary till about 11.

• 50:21Speaker 01

  The mid morning doc.

• 50:22Rachel Cruze?

  I love getting back into bed. It's my favorite. It makes me feel so luxurious.

• 50:27Speaker 01

  Do you swish your legs?

• 50:29Rachel Cruze?

  Uh, no, but I have a heating pad at my feet.

• 50:30Speaker 01

  You have a heating pad.

• 50:33George Kamel?

  Dream about it right now.

• 50:34Speaker 01

  I'm a leg swisher, I'll be honest with you.

• 50:36Rachel Cruze?

  We're gonna watch a documentary.

• 50:38George Kamel?

  On a freshly made bed, you can't be.

• 50:39Rachel Cruze?

  Then I'm gonna go out to a, to a bougie lunch.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  Bougie lunch?

• 50:43Rachel Cruze?

  I'm not going to.

• 50:44Speaker 01

  Who's at lunch with you?

• 50:45Rachel Cruze?

  Um, friends. So we're doing like a jail, like we're gonna be women who lunch.

• 50:49Speaker 01

  Three friends, four friends, two friends?

• 50:51Rachel Cruze?

  Uh, I'm going three. A little four top. Have a great lunch.

• 50:57Speaker 01

  Cocktail at lunch or no?

• 50:58Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, if it's a free, free day, sure.

• 51:01Speaker 01

  This is your Friday.

• 51:01Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 51:02Speaker 01

  He's off the clock.

• 51:02Rachel Cruze?

  A glass of champ's.

• 51:04Speaker 01

  Champ's.

• 51:04Rachel Cruze?

  Champ's.

• 51:05Speaker 01

  Great call.

• 51:06Rachel Cruze?

  I may do an errand. Do something a little productive, you know? Uh.

• 51:11Speaker 01

  I may.

• 51:11George Kamel?

  Is this out of guilt?

• 51:12Rachel Cruze?

  I don't know.

• 51:13George Kamel?

  Well, I feel like I should do something.

• 51:14Rachel Cruze?

  Well, I'm out and dressed. That's the thing. You're out and about already. So you gotta, you know.

• 51:18George Kamel?

  You want to show it off?

• 51:19Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, whether you gotta like go pick something up, get your nails done, whatever.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  What are you wearing on that day?

• 51:22Rachel Cruze?

  And then.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  Are you in the athleisure or are you dressed up?

• 51:26Rachel Cruze?

  Not to the, not to the.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  Are you wearing this?

• 51:28Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, I'll go here. Yeah, yeah. Um, pick kids up, order pizza in and like have a movie night. It's a lot of TV.

• 51:38George Kamel?

  That's a good day.

• 51:39Rachel Cruze?

  That day. But that's a good day, isn't it?

• 51:40Speaker 01

  That's a fantastic Friday, shall we say?

• 51:43Rachel Cruze?

  Thank you so much.

• 51:44George Kamel?

  I want, where's my lunch with the girls? No one ever invites me.

• 51:47Speaker 01

  I feel like I, well, I feel like I got to know you better. You want a lunch with the ladies?

• 51:52George Kamel?

  Have you had a lunch with a few guys? No, not guys like you.

• 51:56Rachel Cruze?

  Girls have the tea.

• 51:57George Kamel?

  But take your average common denominator guy. You know how weak that conversation is?

• 52:03Rachel Cruze?

  So true. Girls are so much more interesting.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  Are you saying you want to go to lunch with Rachel and her friends?

• 52:08George Kamel?

  I'm saying the tea they're spilling much more interesting than the sports stats the guys are throwing out. Brooke, what's your parlay this weekend?

• 52:16Speaker 01

  I don't know. I, that's your.

• 52:17Rachel Cruze?

  Did you see the game last night?

• 52:19Speaker 01

  It's your Friday.

• 52:19Rachel Cruze?

  Did you see the coaching?

• 52:20George Kamel?

  I know. You're not going to ask me about the big game.

• 52:23Speaker 01

  I'm not going to ask you about it because you don't even know what happened.

• 52:26George Kamel?

  I got a life to live. I got tea to spill.

• 52:29Rachel Cruze?

  I have tea to drink.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  I love, that was, that was really fun. I really enjoyed hearing that.

• 52:33Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, the game of life. Well, that was fun. Feels like a good life we painted. I feel like during that.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  I think if you take our advice, it's a good life.

• 52:39Rachel Cruze?

  We figured it out.

• 52:40George Kamel?

  A lot of dilemmas that are going to come your way. That's part of life.

• 52:43Rachel Cruze?

  All right, Ken, we're going to do a rapid fire round of questions. We got four.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  Oof. Okay, here we go.

• 52:49Rachel Cruze?

  And we're going to go quick.

• 52:50George Kamel?

  Can you handle that? I know three is usually your limit.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  Crazy quick. Watch this.

• 52:54Rachel Cruze?

  Number one mistake people make with money.

• 52:56Speaker 01

  They lead with emotion, not long-term vision.

• 52:59Rachel Cruze?

  What's your biggest hot take on the job market right now?

• 53:02Speaker 01

  It is actually contracting, very tough time to move jobs. I'd stay put for right now.

• 53:08Rachel Cruze?

  What do you always tell people who feel stuck in a certain place in their life?

• 53:13Speaker 01

  You aren't stuck. You're unclear. If you can get some clarity, you wouldn't believe how quickly you'll be able to make a decision.

• 53:20Rachel Cruze?

  Do you have a favorite question that you love asking people when you first meet them or when you're interviewing them on front row seat?

• 53:25Speaker 01

  Yes. If you could only use one word to describe yourself as a professional right now, what would it be?

• 53:30Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, do you ask people that when you meet them?

• 53:33Speaker 01

  Sometimes.

• 53:34Rachel Cruze?

  Okay.

• 53:34George Kamel?

  And how would Rachel answer?

• 53:36Rachel Cruze?

  That's fun.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  It's fun because it really reveals a lot about a person.

• 53:39George Kamel?

  In what they think about themselves and their work.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  What?

• 53:42Rachel Cruze?

  I will see if Jenna, my producer, agrees. Efficient.

• 53:47Rachel Cruze?

  I'm very efficient in my work. Boom, boom, boom, get it done, and we are.

• 53:52Speaker 01

  See, that reveals a lot about a person. By the way, that's a great icebreaker. Yes, first time you meet somebody because it's all about them. Their favorite topic is them.

• 54:00George Kamel?

  You've thought about this a lot. What's your word?

• 54:03Speaker 01

  Right now? Um, I would say it is creator.

• 54:09George Kamel?

  Oh.

• 54:10Speaker 01

  I'm trying to create conversations that really help people. So that's, that's how I describe myself.

• 54:16Rachel Cruze?

  Creator. What would you say, George?

• 54:17George Kamel?

  I was gonna say edutainer.

• 54:19Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, that's good.

• 54:21Speaker 01

  See?

• 54:21Rachel Cruze?

  You know what I would ask someone? Number one conspiracy theory you believe? Go.

• 54:25George Kamel?

  Oh, that's good.

• 54:29George Kamel?

  Conspiracy theory that I believe. Uh, aliens.

• 54:34Rachel Cruze?

  You think they're real?

• 54:34George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 54:35Rachel Cruze?

  Love it.

• 54:35Speaker 01

  That Hitler didn't die when they said he died. He lived a long life somewhere else.

• 54:40Rachel Cruze?

  What?

• 54:41Speaker 01

  Maybe in Brazil.

• 54:44George Kamel?

  But he's dead now.

• 54:45Speaker 01

  You asked me, I don't have time to unpack it.

• 54:46Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 54:47Speaker 01

  The idea that he died, that he killed himself before the allied forces got to him? I'm not buying it.

• 54:53Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 54:54George Kamel?

  That's pretty good.

• 54:55Rachel Cruze?

  You think they snuck him out?

• 54:56Speaker 01

  I think he had a plan.

• 54:57Rachel Cruze?

  Wow.

• 54:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, he knew they were closing in.

• 55:00Rachel Cruze?

  Wow.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  You're telling me he sat in the bunker?

• 55:02Rachel Cruze?

  He's our biggest history buff ever. Ken Coleman loves history.

• 55:05George Kamel?

  If Ken doesn't know it, it didn't happen. That's how confident I am in his history knowledge.

• 55:11Speaker 01

  That's funny. Not true, but funny.

• 55:13Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, man.

• 55:13George Kamel?

  Name the third president.

• 55:15Speaker 01

  The third president of the United States?

• 55:17George Kamel?

  Yes.

• 55:17Speaker 01

  My favorite, Thomas Jefferson.

• 55:19George Kamel?

  He knows everything.

• 55:20Rachel Cruze?

  Wow.

• 55:21George Kamel?

  Who came after that?

• 55:22Speaker 01

  James Madison.

• 55:24George Kamel?

  I rest my case, Your Honor.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  Followed by the other James Monroe.

• 55:27Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, Ken knows everything.

• 55:29Speaker 01

  Both, by the way, were mentored by Jefferson. So Jefferson had some real impact.

• 55:35George Kamel?

  Take that to your next trivia night, Rachel.

• 55:37Rachel Cruze?

  Take that. James, old James.

• 55:39George Kamel?

  That's good. Well, if you want more, uh, wisdom from Ken, make sure to check out his show, Front Row Seat. It's on the Ramsey Network, wherever you get your podcasts, on YouTube. It's fantastic. Rachel and I have been guests on that show. And so we'll put some links in the description if you want to check out those conversations. It's about as deep as Rachel and I probably have ever gone. So.

• 56:00Rachel Cruze?

  Ever, like in life?

• 56:00George Kamel?

  Ever in life. Well, ever on a Ramsey Network show, because Ken, he plums the depth.

• 56:06Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, yeah, Ken's a great interviewer, for sure.

• 56:08George Kamel?

  It's the nicest way I can put it.

• 56:09Rachel Cruze?

  For sure, yeah, make sure to check it out.

• 56:11George Kamel?

  He's a plumber of the depths of the soul.

• 56:13Rachel Cruze?

  All right, before we spill the tea on our Guilty as Charged segment, I'll share what we're sipping on in our ratings.

• 56:18George Kamel?

  We're sipping on the Kentucky Mule. I'm gonna give this a 10 out of 10.

• 56:23Speaker 01

  A 10?

• 56:24George Kamel?

  10 out of 10. I don't think it could be improved upon in its current form.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 56:29George Kamel?

  High praise, Mia.

• 56:31Speaker 01

  I think it's balanced.

• 56:33Rachel Cruze?

  I'm going 10 out of 10. I don't think I would change anything.

• 56:35Speaker 01

  I gotta say, I hate to be the guy who brings us down, but a 10 is like 10.

• 56:40Rachel Cruze?

  I know, well, we go twos, threes, eights.

• 56:42Speaker 01

  I think it's an 8.8.

• 56:44Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, there you go.

• 56:44Speaker 01

  It's very refreshing, more punch than I thought. Fantastic nonetheless.

• 56:48George Kamel?

  I don't think we've ever had an 8.8, so I appreciate that.

• 56:50Speaker 01

  This is a, if you're at the Kentucky Derby, you may start with this in your seersucker suit and white bucks that I would be wearing.

• 56:57Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 56:57Speaker 01

  Or if you're at home on a summer eve.

• 57:00Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, it's a good like 4:30, 5 o'clock.

• 57:02Speaker 01

  It's very refreshing.

• 57:04Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, very refreshing.

• 57:05George Kamel?

  Here's what's in it. It's got bourbon, lime juice, ginger beer, and some mint to garnish, and it comes out to $2.65 per glass, which is very affordable considering our other cocktails we've had on the show. So get the recipe in the show notes, give it a try this weekend if you're of age.

• 57:21Rachel Cruze?

  All right, now it's time for Guilty as Charged. And this is where we ask each other a new Guilty as Charged question every week, and if we're guilty, we take a sip. All right, ready?

• 57:31Speaker 01

  I don't have anything to sip.

• 57:33Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, neither do we, but we're done, but it's okay. Just pretend.

• 57:35George Kamel?

  Eat some mint.

• 57:36Speaker 01

  Oh, okay. I might.

• 57:38George Kamel?

  That's what's left in there.

• 57:39Rachel Cruze?

  Have you ever judged someone instantly based on their handshake?

• 57:43Speaker 01

  100%.

• 57:44Rachel Cruze?

  I know, I have too.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:47George Kamel?

  I think of the flimsy ones. That one's very telling.

• 57:50Rachel Cruze?

  That's what I.

• 57:50George Kamel?

  You know, kind of the dead fish scenario?

• 57:52Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, it's the extreme handshakes for me, and we shake a lot of hands, like at the, like whether it's Live Event or the Ramsey Show. Yes, and the guys that are like... And you're like, oh my gosh, I can't. Or the ones that like crush you. I'm either thinking they have no idea what they're doing right now. Cause you're just like, ow, ow, ow, ow, ow. You just like, like pinch my rings, like it hurts.

• 58:13George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 58:14Rachel Cruze?

  Or are they trying to like?

• 58:15George Kamel?

  Is it a flex?

• 58:16Rachel Cruze?

  I don't know, not to a woman, not to a woman.

• 58:18George Kamel?

  I can see that with Ken or Deloney.

• 58:20Rachel Cruze?

  I love a good handshake though, I'm a handshaker.

• 58:22George Kamel?

  Bow up a little bit.

• 58:23Speaker 01

  I don't mind a very firm handshake. You gave me some effort. The person, man or woman, by the way, that gives me the, what I call the limp fish.

• 58:30Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, it's this.

• 58:31Speaker 01

  I gotta tell you, I wanna look at him and go, have some respect for yourself. You wanna do that again, give it a squeeze. What are we doing here? What's the point of sticking your hand out if you're not gonna squeeze back?

• 58:41George Kamel?

  You ever been impressed by handshake? Someone, like someone you could name drop that you're like, wow, that was a handshake.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  And I tell them, and you both have been with me when I've said to somebody, that's a great handshake.

• 58:51George Kamel?

  Handshake I'll never forget, Jaco. Cause I expected big things. When you get to meet Jaco, you're like, this man better crush my hand.

• 58:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:58George Kamel?

  And it was perfect. It wasn't enough that he was trying to hurt you, but it was enough that he knew he could kill you.

• 59:04Speaker 01

  I knew I was, you know what? I appreciate that, that's the perfect handshake for a man for certain. It's, I feel secure. You didn't break my hand. You're not trying to prove anything.

• 59:16George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 59:16Speaker 01

  But I knew that we just shook hands.

• 59:18Rachel Cruze?

  Mm-hmm.

• 59:18Speaker 01

  It's a shake.

• 59:19George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 59:20Speaker 01

  By the way, that's the other thing that's underrated. It's not just a good grip.

• 59:24Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, here, here, here we go, ready?

• 59:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:28George Kamel?

  What about, what about the second hand over the hand?

• 59:31Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, I'll do that with, I'll do that with the elderly. Elderly?

• 59:34Speaker 01

  And someone that I really respect.

• 59:37George Kamel?

  See what she just did there? Which makes sense why I've never experienced it.

• 59:39Speaker 01

  She did a left hand over.

• 59:40Rachel Cruze?

  Or if someone's emotional, like if they're like, I'll do the two hand.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  I go up to the shoulder on that one.

• 59:46Rachel Cruze?

  Wow.

• 59:46Speaker 01

  It's a side shoulder, it's a.

• 59:48George Kamel?

  We need to get an online course from Ken on greetings.

• 59:51Speaker 01

  This reaction was worth showing up today. These three right here.

• 59:54George Kamel?

  Ken loves an audience.

• 59:56Rachel Cruze?

  That was good. Well, if you guys have a guilty as charged question for us, make sure to DM us at Rachel Cruz and at George Kamel. And if you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review. And check out our episode that we did with our other Ramsey personality, Dr. John Deloney on critiquing your spending habits and ours with Dr. John Deloney. We'll leave a link down below.

• 1:00:16George Kamel?

  Six, seven.

• 1:00:19George Kamel?

  And if you love Ken, which how can you not? Be sure to go check out his show, Front Row Seat. We'll leave a link to that in the description as well.

• 1:00:26Rachel Cruze?

  All right, last cheers, Ken. You ready? All right, well, we'll see you guys next Thursday on our all new episode of Smart Money Happy Hour.