Jocko Underground: When You Give, Should You Really Not Expect Anything In Return?

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast number 178, sitting here with Kerry Helton. Kerry, first time in the hot seat on the UG.

• 0:10Speaker 01

  First time on the underground, happy to be here.

• 0:12Jocko Willink?

  Do you think you're going to be able to read these questions?

• 0:13Speaker 01

  I'm gonna try.

• 0:14Jocko Willink?

  You think you're gonna do better than Echo Charles?

• 0:16Speaker 01

  Possibly.

• 0:19Jocko Willink?

  All right, we'll see, we'll see how it goes. Let's get into these things. We got a bunch of questions from people trying to provide some

• 0:26Jocko Willink?

  guidance, some courses of actions that you can take, overcoming some of the challenges you're facing out there. So let's get into it.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  First question, "Good evening Echo and Jocko. On Underground, episode 147, when you mentioned paying for your kids' college so they'll take care of you when you're older, did you mean that literally? You've often said that you should help others without expecting anything in return. It's even in Warrior Kid 2. My parents paid for my education. I do feel I owe them, but they used that to guilt me. It would feel transactional. But if they used that to guilt me, it would feel transactional. Likewise, if I pay for my kids' tuition, my future kids' tuition, I'd want them to care for me because they want to, not because they feel obligated."

• 1:15Speaker 01

  So to me, paying tuition to, I'm sorry, so to me, tying tuition to future care seems to go against the idea of giving freely, without expecting something back.

• 1:28Jocko Willink?

  How'd you think you did?

• 1:29Speaker 01

  Terrible. Terrible.

• 1:31Jocko Willink?

  You know, you, you had some, you had some things I could see when you got to tying tuition, you thought that that was a mistake.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  I did.

• 1:37Jocko Willink?

  And you changed it.

• 1:38Speaker 01

  I did.

• 1:39Jocko Willink?

  Proactively. So, but not a bad, I'll tell you, Echo Charles, over the years, his first ones, he would edit them heavily, but he was not good at reading aloud. I would venture to say he's still not that great.

• 1:55Jocko Willink?

  But, but he definitely got better. It's a, it's a little bit of a skill I think you can develop. But I'd give you like maybe I'd give you a solid. Reading well. I'd give you a C. No, reading aloud first, like first time you see something, it's tricky. It is. It's tricky. There's like, you can have, like, I'm decent at it kind of naturally. I'm not very good at many things naturally. Like I'm pretty much like not good at stuff. But I'm lucky that I'm okay at that. And Echo is not, but he's developed it. Yeah. Over time. Props. So there we go. Let's get into this. So good question. And to, to straight up like, I, I would have to go back and listen to exactly what I said, but no, I don't mean that. And I'm glad you caught that. I definitely don't mean that literally.

• 2:41Jocko Willink?

  I think maybe what I, as I try and think about what I could have meant, what I might have meant, again, I'd have to go back and listen to it. I might've meant that if they go to college, hopefully that puts them in a path where they have a good career. And if they so desired, they could take care of me if I needed it when I was older and my wife as well.

• 3:00Jocko Willink?

  Now,

• 3:02Jocko Willink?

  just a little side note here, parenthetically, at this juncture in time, if you've heard me talk over the past few years, I definitely don't think that college is necessarily the best way to set yourself up for success. There's a lot of other options right now. I think the trades probably are paramount right now. Because I don't care how good AI gets, it's not going to be able to

• 3:27Jocko Willink?

  rewire your house or fix the plumbing leak that you've got. AI is not going to do that for you. So going into the trades, I think is excellent. Going to the military is excellent. There's plenty of options out there that are not college. But regardless of the path that my kids chose, I would try and help them travel down that path. But to case in point here, this is not so that they would owe me, right? In the future. Because you are correct that when we help people and we give people things and we.

• 4:04Jocko Willink?

  Move them in a positive direction. We should do that without expecting anything in return. And in fact, the minute you expect something in return, it kind of is. It, it, there's a little bit of a, a hint of badness in there, right? And it's the same thing with cover and move. You know, we teach at Esalen Front, the first law of combat, leadership is cover and move, which means you support your team, but I don't support you, Kerry, with the thing in the back of my mind that says, well, now that I supported you, you owe me sport. I don't do that. That's not what we're doing here. So, yes, you are correct. The goal, the, the. Another element here is the actual goal for me is that no one needs to take care of me when I'm older.

• 4:48Jocko Willink?

  Like got things handled and you know, financially handled and physically I stay in good enough shape. But you know, there's some things you can't control, but, but we are trying to set ourselves up. My wife and I so that my kids won't have the burden, the financial burden of caring for us when we're older. So that's kind of the actual gold, goal. And then on top of all this, I would say that. The real goal is that if you raise good kids, they're going to want to help you out and take care of you. If you need it. So. Do a good job as a parent and I think your kids will help you out and I think that's a good thing.

• 5:33Jocko Willink?

  So. That's kind of where I'm at. You caught me. I think I, I don't know exactly what I said. I'll have to go back and listen to it, but I did not mean to say that you should help your kids pay for college. So they have to take care of you when you get older. But a good kid that you raise is going to look at you and say, oh yeah, you know, I really appreciate what you did for me. And you need help now that you're, you know, the roles are reversed. And they see that because a lot of times you forget, you know, you, it's easy to forget what your parents did for you, right? That they went through all kinds of crap for your dumb ass. Literally crap. So.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  And this is care, right? If, if you care for them.

• 6:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  You know, they're, they're gonna, they're gonna care for you.

• 6:19Jocko Willink?

  Yep. In most cases, in the vast majority of cases. Are there people that are freaking psychos? Yes, there are. Yep, there are. Are there people that are sociopaths? Yep, there are. But most people gonna be cool. So.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  Next question.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  Hey, Jocko. I have something I've been struggling with a lot lately. I'm thirty-two, blue collar, grew up in a blue collar home. Spent my childhood playing different sports and hunting. Now I have a five-year-old daughter that is the sweetest thing ever. Love her to death. I am struggling big time with her completely losing her shit, breaking down and crying over some of the smallest little issues. For instance, this Sunday, we were getting ready for church. She just got a new dress and was excited to wear it for the first time. She got herself all dressed and while my wife was helping fix her hair, I walked into the bathroom and the baby,

• 7:19Speaker 01

  with the baby, and she just started bawling because she wanted to show off for me and her look wasn't complete and I spoiled her surprise. She ran in the room, hiding by the bed, absolutely losing her shit. I tried to talk to her, but it only made her emotions worse. My question for you is how to make your daughters mentally tough? Again, she's five, so I know she's, she is still very young, but I want to instill in her, I want to instill it in her young. I've already started years ago, teaching her to have good manners. Yes, sir, no, sir, no, thank you. I've tried several, several times to help her be tough, but it hasn't stuck yet. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thank you.

• 8:07Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, man. Um, you kind of know this because you've mentioned it a bunch of times. So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground Podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to jockounderground.com and subscribe and we're doing this, we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms. So we are not subject to their control and we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko Podcast, which will remain as is free for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we, but we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors.

• 8:50Jocko Willink?

  And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's jockounderground.com. It costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email [email protected] and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.