Weird Money Habits That Will Make You Rich

🚢 Get tickets to the next Live Like No One Else Cruise. Apparently, living on less than you make and ditching your credit score is groundbreaking financial advice—but we’ll let you be the judge. If you’re willing to be a little unorthodox in order to build wealth, stay tuned! You’re in the right place. Next Steps: 🎙️ Catch our episode Are These Common Money Habits Broke, Average or Wealthy? 🍸 Follow Smart Money Happy Hour on TikTok: @smartmoneyhappyhour 📱 Submit a Guilty As Charged question for Rachel and George! Leave us a voicemail with your question at 877-306-1517 or send a DM to @rachelcruze or @georgekamel on Instagram! Be sure to type “GUILTY?” at the top of your message so we don’t miss it. 💵 Create a free budget and find more margin with EveryDollar. 📙 Grab a copy of George Kamel’s book, Breaking Free From Broke. Connect With Our Sponsors: Check out the FAIRWINDS Credit Union exclusive account bundle. Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Get 20% off with code SMARTMONEY at Cozy Earth. Today’s Happy Hour Special: 🍹 Virgin Piña Colada Recipe from House of Nash Eats 2 cups pineapple juice 3/4 cup cream of coconut 4 cups ice Pineapple wedges for garnish Maraschino cherries for garnish Instructions: Pour the pineapple juice and cream of coconut into a high-powered blender. Add the ice. Blend for 30–60 seconds until smooth. Divide between 3–4 glasses. This makes about 5 cups of piña colada, which is about 10 ounces per person if divided between 4 people. Garnish with pineapple wedges, maraschino cherries and cocktail umbrellas before serving! Explore More From Ramsey Network: 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05George Kamel?

  Well, if you're in the mood to be a little bit weird to build wealth successfully, you're in the right place.

• 0:10Rachel Cruze?

  Do you ever feel like you are the main character in a Girl Power rom-com montage?

• 0:14George Kamel?

  I mean, I think everything about me, people would consider unusual. This is the number one area you can focus on because it's something you can actually control.

• 0:26Rachel Cruze?

  Hey guys, I'm Rachel Cruz.

• 0:28George Kamel?

  I'm George Kamel.

• 0:30Rachel Cruze?

  And this is

• 0:31George Kamel?

  Smart Money Happy Hour.

• 0:34Rachel Cruze?

  Cheers.

• 0:38Rachel Cruze?

  All right, well, this is the show where two friends who happen to be money experts talk about what you're talking about. So everything from pop culture, current events, and money.

• 0:45George Kamel?

  But first, Rachel, we're sipping on a virgin pinata calada.

• 0:49Rachel Cruze?

  And it's delicious.

• 0:51George Kamel?

  We're gonna give you the rating and reveal the cost per glass at the end of the episode, so stick around for that. I think you're gonna like what you hear because you can't taste it.

• 1:00Rachel Cruze?

  What you see, what you hear. Okay, George, you know, one of the funniest things I have noticed about doing all this like money content, like if we're ever on stage or even on a media hit, I'll randomly just say, "Live on less than you make," and I will get an audible like gasp.

• 1:20George Kamel?

  Their mind is blown.

• 1:22Rachel Cruze?

  Or like, yes, I remember doing a news segment and I remember the anchor was like, "That is so wise." Like, it's like mind blown. And I just realized, man, you know, it's just not common. Some of the things we talk about when it comes to money, genuinely, not common sense these days.

• 1:38George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 1:39Rachel Cruze?

  Can be a little weird, even something like that, something that is common.

• 1:41George Kamel?

  We encourage that around here at Ramsey, and for 30 years now, we've been promoting what has become controversial weird principles, like paying for things in full and not buying it if you can't afford it in full. And we got a lot of flack for that, so we thought it'd be fun to break down some of these habits

• 1:59Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 2:00George Kamel?

  behind living on less than you make and talk about the unorthodox ways you can build wealth.

• 2:05Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, kind of, kind of the weird way, if you will, but okay, before we go to the financial side, are there any unusual habits that you swear by, George, that are unusual for today, like hobbies or parenting or anything?

• 2:18George Kamel?

  Oh my goodness. I mean, I think everything about me, people would consider unusual as far as my habits, mostly related to hygiene.

• 2:25Rachel Cruze?

  Wait, oh, because it's so

• 2:26George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 2:27Rachel Cruze?

  uppity up.

• 2:27George Kamel?

  Oh, here's one that Whitney finds very odd.

• 2:29Rachel Cruze?

  Okay.

• 2:29George Kamel?

  Whitney could give you a litany of these.

• 2:31Rachel Cruze?

  Sure, sure.

• 2:32George Kamel?

  I, in the shower, I have a bar of soap and I have to like wash my hands in between like a shampoo and a conditioner.

• 2:41George Kamel?

  For example. I don't know why I can, I don't like the feeling of it.

• 2:46Rachel Cruze?

  This feels so personal to ask a friend. Is that bar of soap used at all for anything else except for hand washing?

• 2:53George Kamel?

  No.

• 2:54Rachel Cruze?

  Like, you don't use it like on your butt?

• 2:55George Kamel?

  No, I have like a loofah, some body wash. It's just like to, I don't like the feeling of that on my hands. I don't know how to explain it.

• 3:04Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 3:05George Kamel?

  But if you shampoo your face, then you go straight for the face wash. I just feel like that can't be good for your face.

• 3:11Rachel Cruze?

  So you wash your, okay, but you said you wash your hands with it?

• 3:15George Kamel?

  Yes.

• 3:16Rachel Cruze?

  Okay. So from like shaving cream, wash your hands?

• 3:19George Kamel?

  Yes, get the gunk off.

• 3:20Rachel Cruze?

  That makes no sense with running water, water like hitting you.

• 3:23George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 3:23Rachel Cruze?

  Okay. That is so funny.

• 3:25George Kamel?

  There's an unusual habit.

• 3:27Rachel Cruze?

  Because my routine is makeup wise, and I do, I use my hands a lot when I apply my makeup.

• 3:33George Kamel?

  Is that not okay?

• 3:34Rachel Cruze?

  I don't know, some people are picky about that, but I mean, like my moisturizer, my toner.

• 3:37George Kamel?

  How else do you apply makeup without your hands?

• 3:39Rachel Cruze?

  But like my foundation, I'll sometimes like use my fingers. Like, I'll use like my hands a lot for my moisturizer, I don't know. Now, and then I go do my hair after my makeup, then I will in between wash because I don't want my makeup or moisturizer greasing up my hair.

• 3:53George Kamel?

  Similar concept.

• 3:54Rachel Cruze?

  No, but yours has water coming already at you.

• 3:57George Kamel?

  Water, water alone does not cleanse. I don't know if you knew that. It's how people die.

• 4:04George Kamel?

  On the Oregon Trail. If they just had water, they would, you know, they would have been fine. They didn't have soap, I don't think.

• 4:10Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, my gosh. Soap on soap, though. That's dangerous for George. Okay, that's funny.

• 4:15George Kamel?

  Do you have any unusual habits you swear by?

• 4:17Rachel Cruze?

  I know that, um, man, no.

• 4:23Rachel Cruze?

  I'm not as unorthodox as you.

• 4:25George Kamel?

  What kind of?

• 4:25Rachel Cruze?

  I'm sure, and I'm sure I do. I'm terrible. We've talked about this on the show. I'm not, I don't swear by it, but it is a habit. I don't finish things. So like, I'll have like a bite of a granola bar left and I'll like leave it in my car. Or my water bottle will always have like that much left and I won't drink. Like, I always have like a thing left.

• 4:42George Kamel?

  You can't finish anything. Why is that?

• 4:43Rachel Cruze?

  I don't know.

• 4:44George Kamel?

  If you went to a therapist, how would they psychoanalyze?

• 4:46Rachel Cruze?

  There would probably be something along the lines of like needing to have extra just in case.

• 4:52George Kamel?

  Oh.

• 4:53Rachel Cruze?

  I mean, I don't know. I'm making that up right now. I don't know.

• 4:55George Kamel?

  I thought it was because you hated for something to end. So you just never let it end.

• 4:58Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, that's much more fun. I'll take that analysis.

• 5:01George Kamel?

  That's the fun in you. Well, if I eat the bar, it's gonna be gone.

• 5:03Rachel Cruze?

  It's gonna be over.

• 5:04George Kamel?

  If I leave part of the bar.

• 5:05Rachel Cruze?

  Right now, in my car, literally I have like one bite of granola. I was going up, you know, going to work and and I don't finish. I mean, I don't know why.

• 5:12George Kamel?

  So you've never, like, you're not part of the clean plate club? Where you clean off your plate at dinnertime? You're always leaving a little bite?

• 5:18Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, I always leave like a little something. I don't know why.

• 5:20George Kamel?

  Leave a little bit for the angels. I think that's beautiful.

• 5:22Rachel Cruze?

  Just for the angels.

• 5:23George Kamel?

  That's really sweet.

• 5:24Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, that's probably the most weird unorthodox thing ever.

• 5:27George Kamel?

  Well, that was fun.

• 5:28Rachel Cruze?

  Let's talk about the money things that people do that are unorthodox, but we would probably applaud for a season.

• 5:33George Kamel?

  Yes.

• 5:34Rachel Cruze?

  All of these aren't gonna be like your forever.

• 5:35George Kamel?

  These are not life principles to live by.

• 5:37Rachel Cruze?

  But things that you do to get ahead for a season? Uh, first up, working more than 40 hours a week.

• 5:43George Kamel?

  You just upset a lot of people out there.

• 5:45Rachel Cruze?

  Well, yeah, I guess.

• 5:46George Kamel?

  They don't think we should be working 40 hours a week. They should, they think we should be working way less.

• 5:52Rachel Cruze?

  They do?

• 5:52George Kamel?

  They as in just in general, the people.

• 5:55Rachel Cruze?

  People, the people do.

• 5:56George Kamel?

  Yeah, we're, we're going against the 40 hour work week.

• 5:58Rachel Cruze?

  That's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 5:59George Kamel?

  Part of the industrial era and Henry Ford wanted more work, you know?

• 6:02Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 6:02George Kamel?

  More production.

• 6:03Rachel Cruze?

  It's more like, yes, work smarter, not harder.

• 6:06George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 6:06Rachel Cruze?

  Mentality. And if you can get it all done.

• 6:08George Kamel?

  I feel like there's a, there is a case to be made that in

• 6:12Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, I mean, I think-

• 6:12George Kamel?

  That America works longer hours than most countries.

• 6:15Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, but I do think we talk to people on the show and they're easily working 50 to 60 hours, some people we talk to. And we're like, whoo, you know, so, um, yeah, I, I do think we can get more creative. I'm not mad about that, of how we spend our time and the hours, but. But trying to like cut corners constantly, I don't know, but the idea of working more than that, unorthodox.

• 6:37George Kamel?

  A hundred percent, but if you're trying to get out of debt, this is the number one area you can focus on because it's something you can actually control.

• 6:43Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 6:44George Kamel?

  Is the number of hours you work, how much money you make, and if you can't do it at your, you know, full-time job, we live in a side gig economy and I've proven this, I signed up for Instacart for a night.

• 6:54Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, you did.

• 6:54George Kamel?

  And within an hour, I was on the road driving.

• 6:56Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 6:57George Kamel?

  For better and worse, and it was mostly worse.

• 6:59Rachel Cruze?

  And no one tipped you, right?

• 7:00George Kamel?

  Um, one, well, I went to the most affluent neighborhood I could think of and it was like the weakest tip of the night.

• 7:06Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, it's just so sad.

• 7:07George Kamel?

  One, my final, final one, zero tip.

• 7:10Rachel Cruze?

  And that's wild, yeah.

• 7:11George Kamel?

  That's wild, after I've been lugging these 12 packs of sodas and gallons of water.

• 7:16Rachel Cruze?

  And then nothing.

• 7:18George Kamel?

  I think it should be based on weight. That's your tip should be automatic based on how much weight I had to carry.

• 7:24Rachel Cruze?

  That's funny, I like that, that's actually pretty good.

• 7:26George Kamel?

  Sign me up, but this is a big one.

• 7:28Rachel Cruze?

  And working more, and sometimes people, you know, especially entrepreneurs are getting their business off the grounds, that's normal, working way more than 40 hours to get something going, so, so yeah, for a period of time, up in the income, up, up in the work hours, whether it's overtime with your primary job or a side gig, yep, for a season, getting out of debt or that kind of thing.

• 7:46George Kamel?

  It's a weird habit and it's worth it.

• 7:47Rachel Cruze?

  You can do it, yep.

• 7:48George Kamel?

  You'll survive.

• 7:48Rachel Cruze?

  All right, here's one, people could never imagine being a one-car family.

• 7:54George Kamel?

  Oh.

• 7:55Rachel Cruze?

  Going down to one car to be able to save money.

• 7:58George Kamel?

  It's controversial.

• 7:59Rachel Cruze?

  Yep.

• 7:59George Kamel?

  It doesn't work for everyone.

• 8:00Rachel Cruze?

  And a lot of people feel like it's not even doable, like it's like, there's not even a way, but I do think, I'm like, if you had to, if you had to, you could, because that was more common growing up.

• 8:10George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 8:10Rachel Cruze?

  Like, we were a one-car family for years.

• 8:14Rachel Cruze?

  Now, if two people are working and day, I don't know, you gotta figure out schedules, I mean, yeah, it's.

• 8:18George Kamel?

  It can be a little hectic.

• 8:19Rachel Cruze?

  You know who did it, Jade Warshaw and Sam.

• 8:22George Kamel?

  Oh, that's right, when they were getting out of debt.

• 8:23Rachel Cruze?

  For years, yes, they were a one-car family because they were like, yeah, we can't afford another car and we're getting out of debt.

• 8:29Rachel Cruze?

  So, unorthodox, but is doable.

• 8:31George Kamel?

  Again, for a season.

• 8:32Rachel Cruze?

  People here at Ramsey do it.

• 8:33George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 8:34Rachel Cruze?

  And we see them carpool.

• 8:35George Kamel?

  Either you can't afford to make the car repair, and you know, it's kind of kaput, you don't have the money for the new one, or you need to sell the one you have to get rid of the payments and go down to one car while you save up for the next one, there's a lot of reasons to go down to one car, and I think we should all take some stock and go, if you need to right now because of debt or other financial obligations, it's worth exploring this option.

• 8:56Rachel Cruze?

  Yep, absolutely, yeah.

• 8:57George Kamel?

  This is one way to sacrifice.

• 9:00Rachel Cruze?

  Um, all right. Next, another unorthodox way of looking at your money, not caring about your credit score.

• 9:06George Kamel?

  Oh.

• 9:07Rachel Cruze?

  That's kind of a hot take these days. People love a credit score. They love to measure up, figure out where they are in the pack, you know?

• 9:13George Kamel?

  Because people get this mistaken all the time. They think because I don't have a score, it means I'm not financially responsible.

• 9:19Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, that that is a mistake about credit scores. People really do think if I have a high credit score, I'm doing great with money. Where all a credit score is mathematically calculated is all have to do with around debt. So it's basically you paying your debts on time, yes, but acquiring new debt, keeping your current debt going, and it's just like a debt juggling formula. And then it's like, here's how well you are at managing debt. That's basically your credit score.

• 9:43George Kamel?

  So a bad score will hurt you. I want to make that clear. There's three buckets. The bad score people, the no score people, and the really good score people who brag about it.

• 9:51Rachel Cruze?

  Yep, yep.

• 9:52George Kamel?

  I'm talking about no score is a good thing to aim for because it means you don't have debt, you don't owe anyone anything. And six to 12 months after you pay off all of your debt, close all your accounts, your your score will disappear.

• 10:02Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, and it will go down while you're getting out of debt. So you may kind of see it start to go down. But then again, it'll become indeterminate because you can't determine the credit score if you don't have debt open, especially those accounts. So

• 10:13George Kamel?

  That's right. That's how dumb it is.

• 10:14Rachel Cruze?

  Very unorthodox way of looking at it, but we love a

• 10:16George Kamel?

  I'd rather that than play this game where if you pay off debt, they punish you by lowering your score.

• 10:21Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 10:21George Kamel?

  And they increase it if you take out more lines of credit.

• 10:24Rachel Cruze?

  Yep, yep.

• 10:24George Kamel?

  I don't want to get sucked into that matrix. No, thank you.

• 10:26Rachel Cruze?

  All that game. Yeah. How about this? Cash or debit is better than credit and debt.

• 10:32George Kamel?

  Ooh.

• 10:34Rachel Cruze?

  That's unorthodox these days.

• 10:35George Kamel?

  Yeah, well, it goes along with that credit score one. People have just gotten so used to having a credit card, having multiple credit cards, rotating their credit cards for whatever has the best cash back program that month. That's also an insane game to play.

• 10:49Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 10:50George Kamel?

  Versus just using your own money and saving way more than the 2% you would have gotten.

• 10:54Rachel Cruze?

  Hundred percent.

• 10:55George Kamel?

  By using your own money. You spend differently.

• 10:57Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah. And just having peace that in the moment it's done. Like, you swipe the debit card, you pay with the cash. And you move on.

• 11:04George Kamel?

  I don't have a debit card statement at the end of the month that I have to then reconcile and pay off.

• 11:08Rachel Cruze?

  And figure out and think, yes, and hope you have the money for it and all of it. So, um, yeah, my thing always is people always have good intentions getting a credit card. It's either I'm going to play the game and get this or that. And then you talk to people and they're racking up 12,000, 20, 40, right? Of credit card debt, thousands of dollars of credit card debt.

• 11:26George Kamel?

  We're at a record high now. Did you know that?

• 11:27Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, we have hit it.

• 11:28George Kamel?

  1.23 trillion in credit card debt.

• 11:31Rachel Cruze?

  All the way. So someone's winning and it ain't you people.

• 11:35George Kamel?

  It's not the American people. I'll tell you that much.

• 11:37Rachel Cruze?

  Those banks, man. They love them some credit cards.

• 11:40George Kamel?

  Speaking of banks, Rachel, if you want a bank smarter, not harder, you gotta check out Fairwinds Credit Union. They've been a great partner of this show and many others on the Ramsey Network. And here's what I love about them. They are for you. Unlike the big banks out there who just see you as a number. Fairwinds Credit Union is owned by their members, not by Wall Street, which means they can do what they want to do, which is serve the fans better. And they believe in the Ramsey principles. They want their members to become and stay debt free, which is incredible. And so they partnered with us to create a smart bundle, a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account, and the Ramsey branded debit card.

• 12:15Rachel Cruze?

  Do you have it?

• 12:16George Kamel?

  Which is perfect for this episode because it says debt is normal, be weird.

• 12:19Rachel Cruze?

  See? Debit, not credit. You see that right there? Yeah. I know. Well, they are, they're fantastic. And what I-

• 12:25George Kamel?

  This is your card, Rachel.

• 12:26Rachel Cruze?

  Love about it. Took my card. Um, but no, really, what I love about it is even not only what they believe in their heart behind this credit union and wanting to help people, but their, all their systems are easy. The app is easy to use, setting up these accounts so easy. The customer service is incredible. We have it in the Cruz household. I know the Camels have it. Like all, it's just amazing. So you can check it out. You can go to fairwins.org/Ramsey and sign up for the smart bundle today.

• 12:52George Kamel?

  We'll also leave a link in the description below. All right, next weird habit, throwing all savings except for a thousand dollars at your debt. So this is referring to the infamous baby step one of the Ramsey plan where we tell people, save a thousand dollars real quick for a starter emergency fund. And a lot of people have that and more, sitting in savings.

• 13:14Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 13:15George Kamel?

  And it's a real emotional turn to take money out of savings to apply to debt.

• 13:20Rachel Cruze?

  That's right. Yeah, because people do feel like it's riskier to have no savings and to have a lot of debt. But the truth is, if something were to happen and you lost your job and you could only float a month, maybe, of that savings, then you have all these bills that you're going to get behind if you keep the debt. So the faster you can clear out other people having their name all over your finances, that's the less riskier bet. And usually for most things that you're finding that pop up, either they're under a thousand dollars, or even if they're over, you can always pause the baby steps, save up. And if you're throwing two to three thousand dollars at debt every month, you could pause and save up that amount of cash in one month and figure out how to fix the emergency. So there's definitely options out there, because I know a lot of people feel urgent with it, and it is kind of scary.

• 14:05Rachel Cruze?

  I was talking to a girl here at Ramsey, and they're getting out of debt, and she's like, oh, my gosh, they've been, I think it's almost 18 months with just the thousand dollars. She was like, it always keeps me on edge, but it makes me want to get out of debt that much faster. Any extra money we have every month, she's like, just put it at the debt, like, I want to get out of it faster.

• 14:18George Kamel?

  That's the thing, that actually gets people out of debt, is that fire going like, I'm not okay. And what the problem is, you get too comfortable having a pile of cash over here to where you go, well, I don't need to be that aggressive paying off the debt. I want to live my life. And there's something to just scorched earth, sending all of the savings to the debt except for the thousand, to go, I mean it this time.

• 14:38Rachel Cruze?

  And then some people want to try to save up three months before they start paying off debt, and then that slows the whole progress down again, too. So, yeah, it's just like, just kind of bite the bullet and do it, y'all, just do it. So you have the thousand dollars, but very unorthodox these days.

• 14:50George Kamel?

  And it's not meant to be a long-term solution. Most people get out of debt in 18 to 24 months following this Ramsey plan. So, once you get out of that debt, you can stack it up to three to six months of expenses.

• 15:00Rachel Cruze?

  That's right. All right, next is tracking transactions.

• 15:03George Kamel?

  Perfect.

• 15:04Rachel Cruze?

  I think a lot of people hate the details of this. They're like, I don't want to just nickel and dime myself to death. I think that's what people feel like if they're tracking transactions.

• 15:11George Kamel?

  Nobody wants to track anything.

• 15:12Rachel Cruze?

  It's like a 299 fee for this thing, and to track it, it's like, wait, why, it's just three bucks, it's not a big deal. But when you get in the habit of, you guys, it's addicting, can I say that? I do it all, y'all, I open up my EveryDollar app genuinely. Maybe one or two times a day.

• 15:26George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 15:26Rachel Cruze?

  And that little blue dot happens and it's like four transactions, the worst of his, if over a weekend or something, I didn't.

• 15:32George Kamel?

  They all come in on Monday.

• 15:33Rachel Cruze?

  Something, I'm like, oh my God, give me a second, everyone, pause, the family. I gotta track my transactions, then we can get back to reality. Yeah, there's something, there's something just so controlling about it, but it's like a good control, you know?

• 15:45George Kamel?

  Well, and you're actually, you know, having to reconcile the purchases you made, which is something we don't do anymore.

• 15:50Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 15:51George Kamel?

  We don't have our checkbooks out reconciling in the back of the checkbook.

• 15:54Rachel Cruze?

  Totally.

• 15:55George Kamel?

  We're just swiping, swiping, swiping, and then we just hopefully make the bill at the end of the month, which is a terrible way to live. So every dollar makes this super easy. That's what Rachel's talking about. She just drags the transaction over to the correct line item and boom, it's done. And it shows you how much money you have left for that category.

• 16:10Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 16:10George Kamel?

  So that you don't overspend. That's the point of tracking. It's not to nerd out. So if you want to check it out, we'll leave a link to every dollar in the description below.

• 16:18Rachel Cruze?

  All right. Next is quitting toxic spending habits, cold turkey. So do you ever feel like you are the main character in a girl power rom com montage?

• 16:27George Kamel?

  Always.

• 16:28Rachel Cruze?

  It's kind of like Elle Woods on The Stairmaster, you know, and they have like all the music and all the things, you know, there is something like that you're like, okay, I can do this. Like I can make a change. I can make a change.

• 16:39George Kamel?

  Do you ever feel better than everyone else when you do something drastic? You're like, I'm going to delete Instagram off my phone.

• 16:44Rachel Cruze?

  Phone, yeah. Oh, I feel like I'm a better human than everyone walking around.

• 16:47George Kamel?

  It's a weird flex.

• 16:49Rachel Cruze?

  I know it is.

• 16:50George Kamel?

  Nobody knows but you unless you post, please don't post about it on social media.

• 16:53Rachel Cruze?

  That you're about to do.

• 16:54George Kamel?

  I'm deleting Instagram. Text me if you need me. Literally nobody cares. Nobody was trying to message you on Instagram. They would have just text you if they needed something.

• 17:04Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, man.

• 17:06George Kamel?

  But yeah, deleting apps on your phone that cost money or that tempt you to spend money.

• 17:10Rachel Cruze?

  Yep.

• 17:10George Kamel?

  Maybe you're going to stop eating out for an entire month. That's a huge emotional

• 17:14Rachel Cruze?

  That's a good one, yes.

• 17:14George Kamel?

  thing to switch when you're used to stopping through that drive through after a long day at work and instead you drive past it.

• 17:20Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, and you go home.

• 17:22George Kamel?

  Think about it. If I just was like, I'll pay you $10 to drive past that drive through, you would do it.

• 17:26Rachel Cruze?

  Mm hmm.

• 17:27George Kamel?

  Think about that. That's what you're paying yourself by not going through the drive through.

• 17:30Rachel Cruze?

  That's smart. That's good.

• 17:31George Kamel?

  Until In-N-Out is finished down the street and then I will be going through that drive through.

• 17:35Rachel Cruze?

  But hey, that's actually pretty budget friendly.

• 17:37George Kamel?

  It's still like $3 a burger somehow.

• 17:39Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, it's pretty, it's actually pretty great.

• 17:40George Kamel?

  They're inflation proof over there.

• 17:41Rachel Cruze?

  I know.

• 17:42George Kamel?

  Maybe a no spend challenge?

• 17:43Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, I love a no spend challenge. That's always fun.

• 17:45George Kamel?

  That one's kind of exciting, though.

• 17:47Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, you kind of band together. I have to have an end date, though.

• 17:50George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 17:51Rachel Cruze?

  I've only done it a few times in my life, George. It's hard for me.

• 17:53George Kamel?

  I think thirty days is the max.

• 17:55Rachel Cruze?

  Mine, also the, like, no spending on clothes for, like, a season.

• 17:59George Kamel?

  Oh.

• 17:59Rachel Cruze?

  If you're like, no, I'm not buying anything for winter.

• 18:01George Kamel?

  Shop your closet.

• 18:02Rachel Cruze?

  Shop your closet. I know. But yeah, those kind of things. There's something, again, it's kind of empowering. Where you're like, I'm doing something big, changing my life.

• 18:10George Kamel?

  Here's an idea. Steam your clothes and put a fake tag on it and tell yourself it's brand new.

• 18:15Rachel Cruze?

  Oh. And be like, look at this.

• 18:16George Kamel?

  Because at one point, it was brand new and you loved it.

• 18:18Rachel Cruze?

  And you loved it and you felt all excited about it. And then that excitement wears off and so goes the cycle of spending.

• 18:23George Kamel?

  I'm not a turtleneck guy. What was I thinking?

• 18:25Rachel Cruze?

  Why did I go for that cable net sweater again?

• 18:27George Kamel?

  I don't have the neck for this.

• 18:29Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, my gosh. Too good.

• 18:31George Kamel?

  I do a credit card challenge in the book, too. Breaking Free from Broke. I, at the end of the credit card chapter, I say, hey, bet. Put your credit card in a block of ice, hide it, do something with it to where you can't use it for a whole month and see how it changes your spending.

• 18:46Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, and just look and see.

• 18:47George Kamel?

  And the people who do it, they go, I saved hundreds and hundreds of dollars just by using my own money.

• 18:52Rachel Cruze?

  Isn't that crazy?

• 18:53George Kamel?

  Because I was just spending more when it was other people's money and I had to pay it back later.

• 18:56Rachel Cruze?

  It is. The emotional attachment thing is so real. You know, we have a good friend who used to work here. And he told me, it was like confession. I was like, it's fine. I'm not like judging you. But he was like, hey, I just want you to know. When I left, I did, I got a credit card. And he said, and I only kept it for like three to four months because he was like, I found myself going to like Academy Sports. And he's like, I had to pick up one thing. He's like, yeah. He's like, it is crazy how you do detach a bunch of things. You do. Like, he's like, it was wild. He's like, I finally just got rid of it. I was like, okay, fine. We were right the whole time, you know? Uh, but I was like, yeah, I appreciate that. True testament right there.

• 19:30George Kamel?

  That's why I don't go to Academy Sports. I'm too tempted by all the sporting goods.

• 19:34Rachel Cruze?

  All the sporting goods.

• 19:35George Kamel?

  So many things I could buy.

• 19:36Rachel Cruze?

  So much. Now, you know where I am tempted to spend, though?

• 19:39George Kamel?

  Where's that?

• 19:39Rachel Cruze?

  Cozy Earth.

• 19:41George Kamel?

  Now that's worth it. I put a whole line item in the budget for Cozy Earth.

• 19:44Rachel Cruze?

  Because when you buy it, that quality, you still get excited about it. Those pajamas, the socks, the sheets, the bedding, all of it, you still get that new exciting feeling because it's so great. It is so great.

• 19:56George Kamel?

  I bought a lot of Christmas gifts for my family from Cozy Earth this season. Because it's just like, it's the thing that they don't have and wouldn't buy for themselves. Because like, well, I don't deserve a nice PJ set. And I'm like, Mom, you deserve the most.

• 20:07Rachel Cruze?

  You deserve the most.

• 20:09George Kamel?

  I'm that kind of son. That's just who I am.

• 20:11Rachel Cruze?

  The Cozy Earth, yes.

• 20:12George Kamel?

  So Luxe Bath Towels, their new Baja bedding collection.

• 20:15Rachel Cruze?

  I was gonna say, the Baja bedding is beautiful, you guys.

• 20:18George Kamel?

  Elegant.

• 20:18Rachel Cruze?

  Beautiful. You do. You feel like you're in combo.

• 20:21George Kamel?

  I didn't know bedding could be elegant until I saw this.

• 20:24Rachel Cruze?

  Because it's simple, it's not overly busy, but it's like, it's so tasteful. It's beautiful.

• 20:29George Kamel?

  Just enough.

• 20:30Rachel Cruze?

  Mm-hmm. They did great. Yep. So make sure to check it out because again, it's everything from the bedding set, you guys, the sheets, all of it, the towels, everything. It is incredible. I mean, all their products are incredible. So you can go to cozylearth.com/smartmoney, use the code SMARTMONEY for 20% off. And if you get the post-purchase survey, be sure to mention that you heard about Cozy Earth here on Smart Money.

• 20:54George Kamel?

  You get bonus points here and in heaven.

• 20:58Rachel Cruze?

  Jewels on your crown.

• 20:59George Kamel?

  That's right.

• 21:00Rachel Cruze?

  In eternity. Oh, all right. Um, next unorthodox money habit is investing above the company match.

• 21:08George Kamel?

  Now we're talking.

• 21:09Rachel Cruze?

  Okay.

• 21:10George Kamel?

  So most people will go, well, I'm in, how much are you investing? They go, I'm investing, I don't know, 4%. And I go, why is that? Well, the company match is 4%. So I'm gonna do the bare minimum to get the match.

• 21:21Rachel Cruze?

  And then be done. Yep.

• 21:22George Kamel?

  The problem is they get to retirement realizing, I need more than this because 4% over my career was not enough to sustain a great retirement, most likely.

• 21:31Rachel Cruze?

  Yep. Well, and a lot of people don't have the margin to invest more either, right? So that is why with the baby steps, that's why getting out of debt and then saving up an emergency fund. You do all that first and then you have the margin to save up to that 15%. So always go up to your employer's match, match, and then go to a raw fire. It's another great investing vehicle for retirement. And then if you still have more of that 15%, you can go back to the 401k and invest. But going above the match, not everyone does it, but it's a good plan long term.

• 22:02George Kamel?

  We recommend 15% long term until your house is paid off. So while you're still got the mortgage, invest 15% once you're debt free. And for most people, that's going to be a seven figure nest egg. Over your working lifetime. Now, if you're like 58 and just getting started, this might look different. But if you're in your twenties, thirties, even forties, you can still have a million dollar plus nest egg. If you invest that 15% of the average income.

• 22:27Rachel Cruze?

  That's right.

• 22:27George Kamel?

  It's very encouraging.

• 22:28Rachel Cruze?

  All right, next is to prioritize giving and generosity.

• 22:32George Kamel?

  That's a weird habit.

• 22:33Rachel Cruze?

  Yep, because a lot of people don't think about it. And I do feel like a lot of people in the money space don't talk about it. I feel like usually like investing in crypto and interest rates and all that is talked about a lot.

• 22:43George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 22:44Rachel Cruze?

  But the generosity part, people don't, yeah, they don't think about, but it is so important. It's a habit to get them because you do, there's something about prioritizing other people, those around you in need, there's something about that that's just really beautiful, that opening up your hand to give. And sometimes the habit, you start to do it even if you don't feel like you want to, to be honest.

• 23:07George Kamel?

  Yes.

• 23:07Rachel Cruze?

  And then when you get into the habit, it becomes a part of who you are. And then you start to realize, oh, I do have the margin for it because I'm making it a priority to do it.

• 23:15George Kamel?

  Yeah, we had a group of college kids come through and they were like the sweetest, smartest kids. I was embarrassed to be in that room, but they were like, um, how do you prioritize generosity? I was like, who are you? You're 20 years old, this is insane.

• 23:27Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 23:27George Kamel?

  But I told them, just fake it till you make it. Put it in the budget, force yourself to give, and you'll realize how much you actually enjoy giving and how it changes your perspective on money.

• 23:37Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 23:38George Kamel?

  And you know, I love how you say it, give a little until you can give a lot.

• 23:40Rachel Cruze?

  That's right, yeah.

• 23:41George Kamel?

  That blew their mind when I dropped that Rachel Cruze quote on them.

• 23:43Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, my gosh, really? That's very nice.

• 23:45George Kamel?

  They like it because it just frees you to go, oh, it's not a certain milestone I need to hit. Where if I make a certain amount of money, then I'll start giving.

• 23:51Rachel Cruze?

  Right.

• 23:52George Kamel?

  Because people think, well, I'm not rich enough to give, or I don't make enough, so what is my contribution going to do? But it really is the thought that counts in the heart behind it.

• 24:00Rachel Cruze?

  Hundred percent.

• 24:00George Kamel?

  It's a dollar, a hundred dollars, a thousand dollars, and it changes someone's day.

• 24:04Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 24:04George Kamel?

  Even a simple gesture.

• 24:06Rachel Cruze?

  Like you know people where it's just like all about them all the time, right?

• 24:09George Kamel?

  That's why giving is so shocking. You watch these videos and people are just overcome with emotion when someone gives them anything.

• 24:15Rachel Cruze?

  I love it. Yes.

• 24:16George Kamel?

  That kind of kindness is much needed in today's society.

• 24:18Rachel Cruze?

  Incredible.

• 24:19George Kamel?

  Prioritize it. Put it in the budget.

• 24:22Rachel Cruze?

  Um, all right, next, paying cash for higher ed. Dun, dun, dun.

• 24:26George Kamel?

  Say what?

• 24:27Rachel Cruze?

  I know. Student loans are the norm these days, you know? It's not, not even thinking of another, another path. It literally is.

• 24:35George Kamel?

  The default option is, what do you mean? You're gonna pay for college outright?

• 24:38Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, or, oh, I'm not gonna go to that school that I always wanted to go to because I can't afford it. Like, you rarely hear an 18 year old say that.

• 24:45George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 24:45Rachel Cruze?

  It's a smart thing to do.

• 24:46George Kamel?

  And not all degrees are created equal. And so everyone just thinks, well, if I'm gonna invest in my education, it's an investment, so it will have an ROI. The problem is, there's not always a great paying job handed to you at the end of this road, and you're still carrying a hundred grand of student loan debt.

• 25:02Rachel Cruze?

  It's gotten harder, do you?

• 25:03George Kamel?

  Yeah, well, especially because a lot of people are getting more kind of niche degrees or more general degrees, and they don't really know what they wanted to do after. They just thought, this will be a cool thing to study.

• 25:14Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, yes.

• 25:15George Kamel?

  It's like saying like, well, this will be a cool restaurant to go to, but they don't think through it all the way. To go, is there a job on the other side that I want to do that pays enough to make this education worth it, cash or not?

• 25:25Rachel Cruze?

  Yep.

• 25:26George Kamel?

  So that's the scary part.

• 25:27Rachel Cruze?

  Yep, for sure. So thinking through that is so important. And then again, just making sure that you can cash flow it. And so that may mean taking a gap year, that could be going to a community college for year or two, scholarships and grants, whatever it looks like, but man, graduating with no student loan debt and starting life off on like a solid financial path to build upon versus digging yourself out of a hole at 21. I'm telling you, it takes it years and years and years and years and years that you get ahead.

• 25:52George Kamel?

  And you're just less desperate on the other side. You're different person in that job interview when you're like, I need to make these student loan payments, man. Don't give me the job.

• 26:00Rachel Cruze?

  Give me the job, man. Give me the job.

• 26:01George Kamel?

  So, you know, there's a lot of ways to, to go to school debt free, trade schools, community colleges, part time. Just don't feel like the default path is take out Monopoly money and hope for the best.

• 26:11Rachel Cruze?

  Yep.

• 26:11George Kamel?

  It has not worked out.

• 26:12Rachel Cruze?

  Amen.

• 26:13George Kamel?

  All right, next up on our list of weird habits, using the debt snowball method.

• 26:18Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, yes.

• 26:20George Kamel?

  Controversial in the financial world.

• 26:22Rachel Cruze?

  Yep, so the debt snowball is where you pay the smallest debt first and then you go up to the largest debt regardless of the interest rate. But the debt avalanche is another way to pay off debt where you pay off the highest interest rate first because mathematically, you know, that would be correct. And what we have found over and over again is people get quick wins. You start knocking off some of those credit cards that you've had around, you start knocking off that personal loans to your parents at 10,000, like whatever it is. You knock them all off and momentum builds and you're like, oh gosh, there's just something about getting all those small ones out of the way. You're done with them and then you attack the big ones with extra margin because you don't have the payments of all the other ones. And so that's, yeah, a lot of people like to go the avalanche way.

• 27:05George Kamel?

  Which focuses on math and knowledge and we always say personal finance is 80% behavior, it's only 20% head knowledge. And so the debt snowball attacks behavior and your psychology matters a lot when it comes to getting out of debt. And Time Magazine did a piece on this, Harvard did a piece on this, saying Dave Ramsey is right. The debt snowball method is the best way to get out of debt.

• 27:26Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 27:27George Kamel?

  They did the study and went, listen, this is what actually works. And if you do the math, it's probably a wash because we're telling you to get a debt with such intensity, you're not even paying that much interest.

• 27:36Rachel Cruze?

  Right.

• 27:36George Kamel?

  If you're going to knock it all out in 18 months. If you're going to hang on to it for a decade, sure, the interest matters, but we would never recommend or suggest that.

• 27:43Rachel Cruze?

  And the completion rate, I think, is higher with the debt snowball versus the avalanche. People stay with it.

• 27:47George Kamel?

  Yeah.

• 27:48Rachel Cruze?

  Because again, they're encouraged, you know, you get this like quick wins, which is amazing.

• 27:51George Kamel?

  Yeah, if we were doing math, we wouldn't be in credit card debt. That's, that's the old joke.

• 27:55Rachel Cruze?

  Amen.

• 27:55George Kamel?

  So if we're now going to be like, well, the interest rate, I'm like, well, if you, if you knew it was that high, why'd you go into it?

• 27:59Rachel Cruze?

  Why'd you go into it anyways?

• 28:01George Kamel?

  If you were such a smart aleck.

• 28:02Rachel Cruze?

  It's all about it. Yes. Well, I know one thing that's all too common, George. That's not a great habit is the fact that our information is all over the internet. Getting your information removed is so important in today's world and Delete Me's privacy team does that. They literally go into these data broker websites and remove your data for you and keep it gone. So when you sign up for newsletters and coupon codes. And all this stuff, you put your information out there. A lot of times companies will sell your data to data brokers and then they collect your data on these sketchy websites. Like findpeople.com. It's like random. And that means all your information is out there. I mean, this is like

• 28:38George Kamel?

  It's big business.

• 28:39Rachel Cruze?

  Home addresses from the past, like two or three places you've lived, like all the way back to like your first place you ever lived. Your address is out there.

• 28:47George Kamel?

  They keep scanning all year long, sending you reports along the way, and it's brought me a lot of peace of mind. So if you want that for your family, for your life, you can go check it out and get a sweet deal. Just go to joindelete.me.com/smartmoney and you'll get 20% off their annual plans. And that works out to around nine bucks a month. And this is a subscription that's worth having. This is not entertainment. It's not even a luxury. It's a necessity for my family.

• 29:10Rachel Cruze?

  Absolutely. All right. Next is paying your house off early. Dun dun dun.

• 29:15George Kamel?

  Oh, that's an extra weird habit today.

• 29:17Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, I know.

• 29:18George Kamel?

  There's, there was big beef on X, the social media platform that you haven't used in years, Rachel.

• 29:23Rachel Cruze?

  I know. What did it say?

• 29:24George Kamel?

  We miss you on there. Well, this guy, this guy posted his screenshot of his mortgage with a zero balance.

• 29:31Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 29:31George Kamel?

  And he was roasted for paying off his low interest mortgage early. Cause like, that was the most financially stupid thing you could have done. So there was this whole argument on Twitter between the people who said, no, it's worth it for the peace of mind.

• 29:42Rachel Cruze?

  Under like Ramsey Solutions banner, Dave Ramsey banner or no? Just in general?

• 29:46George Kamel?

  Just in general.

• 29:46Rachel Cruze?

  Funny. Okay.

• 29:48George Kamel?

  So I thought I was just watching, you know, sipping my tea like Kermit off to the side. But it is interesting. Paying off your house early is something most people don't do.

• 29:57Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 29:57George Kamel?

  And we found that millionaires in our millionaire study paid off their home in 10.2 years on average. They didn't hang on to it, even if they had a quote unquote, low interest rate.

• 30:06Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 30:06George Kamel?

  And the thing is, we don't know what life's going to throw at us. If there's a job loss, a health scare, you assume you'll always be able to make that mortgage payment.

• 30:13Rachel Cruze?

  Right.

• 30:13George Kamel?

  But if it's gone, it's one less thing to worry about.

• 30:16Rachel Cruze?

  And my thing always is to pay off the house, number one. And if you hate it, if you hate having a paid off house. You can always go get a mortgage on it again, right? So some people have the money to pay off their house. And we talked to a lot of people. And in savings, they'll have like $141,000 and they have an $80,000 mortgage left. And we're like, pay it off. And they're like, I don't know, I don't know. Pay it off. And if you hate it, hate it, you can go and, you know, get a mortgage again on the house.

• 30:45George Kamel?

  Or they say, well, you could invest the difference and you could be way better off. I'm like, well, I was investing the whole time. We would never advocate to pause your investing to pay off the mortgage.

• 30:54Rachel Cruze?

  And then go pay your, and then invest your mortgage payment every month.

• 30:57George Kamel?

  Yeah, that 2,000 bucks.

• 30:58Rachel Cruze?

  Jump you, yes.

• 30:59George Kamel?

  Invest it every month for the rest of your life, you're gonna be okay.

• 31:02Rachel Cruze?

  You're gonna be okay. So the peace of mind and the presence is a part of money that we fight for so much. So again, it's not always about the spreadsheets and all of it. It is about you as a whole person having autonomy over your money. And that's gonna give you peace and options way more than being like, I have this over here and then this and I'm balancing it all. There's something that you carry when you do that, there is.

• 31:23George Kamel?

  It's living in your head rent free that whole time.

• 31:25Rachel Cruze?

  Isn't that funny? Having a paid off house is controversial. Isn't that funny? I'm like, if someone gave you a paid off house, you're like, no, no, no, no, I'm gonna borrow on it to invest.

• 31:33George Kamel?

  No, you would never do that.

• 31:34Rachel Cruze?

  No, you'd be like, thank you for the house.

• 31:36George Kamel?

  Yeah, I'll take the no payment. Appreciate that.

• 31:39Rachel Cruze?

  Appreciate you.

• 31:39George Kamel?

  Then here's my second least favorite. Well, Rachel, you still have to pay your property taxes. If the government takes your house away.

• 31:46Rachel Cruze?

  That's kinda me a little bit.

• 31:47George Kamel?

  You'll never actually own it. They always do this for some reason, this motion with their little fists.

• 31:52Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, I am a little bit like that. It is kinda creepy to think you could have a paid off house, but if you didn't pay the taxes, you still lose it.

• 32:00George Kamel?

  If you don't pay your water bill, they shut off your water. Do you own the water? No, that's fine with me.

• 32:05Rachel Cruze?

  But I own the land, I bought that land.

• 32:07George Kamel?

  That is true. And we live in a society with like roads and firefighters and police.

• 32:14Rachel Cruze?

  I know.

• 32:14George Kamel?

  And hopefully the government's using that money wisely.

• 32:17Rachel Cruze?

  Maybe that's what, maybe that's why I wanna see. That's, I know. I think I'd feel better about all taxes if I could see.

• 32:24George Kamel?

  If it listed out everything.

• 32:25Rachel Cruze?

  Exactly where it's going. And if it was like the fire department, engine 64, I'd be like, thank you. Love that.

• 32:33George Kamel?

  Beautiful.

• 32:34Rachel Cruze?

  Teachers.

• 32:34George Kamel?

  Hey, you paid 1% of Brad's salary this month.

• 32:36Rachel Cruze?

  But then it's like, hey Congressman so and so wants to fly here and you pay for his plane ticket. I'd be like, that makes me mad. That makes me mad, you know? So I think I'd feel better about taxes. If I could control where it's going.

• 32:51George Kamel?

  Are you listening, government? We want a newsletter. We want you to report exactly where this money went.

• 32:57Rachel Cruze?

  I'd shuttle all of mine to my low elementary school with our teachers. That would be fun if you could. Wish all my property tax just went to elementary school.

• 33:04George Kamel?

  Send it all. Like you had to still pay the same amount, but you could say, I want this all to go to the school.

• 33:07Rachel Cruze?

  Yes. Wouldn't that be great?

• 33:09George Kamel?

  But then like the police would have no funding if everyone decided, well, the teachers are more fun to give to.

• 33:13Rachel Cruze?

  I know, but you know what I mean though? I think the, I think, I think the citizens would feel better, government, if we knew where it was going.

• 33:19George Kamel?

  Fix the potholes first.

• 33:20Rachel Cruze?

  Just saying. Mm-hmm.

• 33:22George Kamel?

  All right. Next up on our weird habits, buying cars in cash.

• 33:26Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, yes. This is a hard one. This is a hard one because you get stuck in the car payment cycle, you know? You have a car payment, you drive the car and then it's, you know, four years, five years later. And you're like, okay, I'm done with that. Now it's time to get another car, right? So a lot of people feel like they're just like in this cycle.

• 33:44George Kamel?

  And so what you do, you trade it into the dealership and get hosed on that deal.

• 33:47Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 33:47George Kamel?

  Sometimes rolling over negative equity to get the next loan.

• 33:50Rachel Cruze?

  And you keep going.

• 33:51George Kamel?

  That's what we see on the Ramsey show and it's frightening. So I always tell them, what's your car payment? 500 bucks. Okay, well, that's $6,000 a year.

• 33:58Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, 700 is now like the new average for a new car.

• 34:01George Kamel?

  Yep.

• 34:01Rachel Cruze?

  It's crazy.

• 34:02George Kamel?

  And the interest rates keep going up too, on top of the prices.

• 34:04Rachel Cruze?

  Some of these interest rates that we're hearing, it's like 28% or something and we're like, what?

• 34:09George Kamel?

  People are just, they're just desperate and they just, they want to get out of that dealership.

• 34:12Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 34:13George Kamel?

  At all costs.

• 34:14Rachel Cruze?

  I know. Yep. So saving up and paying for a car in cash. Again, controversial, but if you have a car payment right now, if you have a car loan, if you can't pay off that car in 12 to 18 months, or it's more than half of your annual income, the car is. Then, you know, if you, all of that, you gotta get rid of it. You gotta sell it and you may have to take out a small loan for the difference if you're underwater. You put an extra thousand, couple thousand on that loan to get you a, you know, three thousand, four thousand dollar car to get you through. But getting out of that car payment, that forty thousand dollar car payment, you know, for, I don't know, eight thousand dollars, make that trade all day.

• 34:50George Kamel?

  Yeah. And that, that first car you get with cash, it's not gonna be the prettiest car. It might be a six thousand dollar car.

• 34:56Rachel Cruze?

  Right.

• 34:56George Kamel?

  And then the next car you get might be a ten thousand dollar car, then maybe a fifteen or twenty. And so upgrading slowly over time is very healthy and normal.

• 35:05Rachel Cruze?

  Yes.

• 35:06George Kamel?

  Going into debt consistently to buy the latest and greatest, to impress people that you don't even really like, to turn heads at the school drop off, it's not the move.

• 35:15Rachel Cruze?

  Not the move.

• 35:15George Kamel?

  And again, people are just willing to pay for it because they can just afford the payment.

• 35:20Rachel Cruze?

  Well, that's it too. It's the line of thinking of, yes, if I can afford the payment, I'm good. I can afford the car. But this whole, um, save up and pay for it and fool. Or if you don't have the money, don't buy it.

• 35:29George Kamel?

  My latest car purchase, it was unbearable. You always have to talk to the finance office, no matter what.

• 35:34Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, yes.

• 35:35George Kamel?

  To complete the purchase.

• 35:36Rachel Cruze?

  What do they kept saying? They just kept?

• 35:37George Kamel?

  And he kept me on the line, I mean, even after I convinced him, listen dude, I am not taking out a loan, so stop. He went, well, the warranty, you really need the warranty. So then he pitched the warranty for another seven minutes. It was exhausting.

• 35:51Rachel Cruze?

  You gotta stay on that phone.

• 35:52George Kamel?

  And at some point, I just wanted to say, hey, man, uh, you Google me. Just Google me.

• 35:58Rachel Cruze?

  Just Google me, you'll know.

• 35:59George Kamel?

  We can end this call early.

• 36:00Rachel Cruze?

  I swear, I swear.

• 36:01George Kamel?

  Save your time to go peddle this to someone else.

• 36:02Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, that's right. That's right.

• 36:03George Kamel?

  But you have to really be firm because they will, they're really good at sales. They will talk you into pretty much anything unless you have your principles laid out early.

• 36:10Rachel Cruze?

  Hundred percent. Oh, man. So just some crazy habits, George, some weird habits in today's world.

• 36:15George Kamel?

  And you live by, by these habits.

• 36:18Rachel Cruze?

  I do. So do you.

• 36:19George Kamel?

  You know, getting out of debt for the season and having to work more than forty hours a week, I don't miss that.

• 36:23Rachel Cruze?

  Yep.

• 36:24George Kamel?

  The one car family life, we got more than that now.

• 36:27Rachel Cruze?

  Sure. Yeah.

• 36:27George Kamel?

  But I still do all these other ones. Like I have an indeterminable credit score. I use cash or debit only.

• 36:33Rachel Cruze?

  Yep.

• 36:34George Kamel?

  I have quit some toxic spending habits called turkey.

• 36:37Rachel Cruze?

  Look at you, doing it all. Yeah, and I think the, always the moral of the story is that these harder ones, like you were saying, one car family, more than forty hours a week, it's for a season. If you feel like you're just doing it to do it. Then that feels hopeless to me, right? We're not telling people to sacrifice and do these things for nothing. You're doing it to get ahead and it's only for a period of time. It's not your whole life. So that's the encouraging part. So have a date out there to be like, okay, we can do all of this for 14 months. You know, for 14 months, we can do anything or nine months, whatever the thing is, whatever the timeline is, have it up there to, for a goal to shoot for. Cause that always gives you an end date. And again, you're going to be better off financially for it. So we always say, live like no one else. So later you get to live and give like no one else. And these habits are weird. They're not normal. So people may be like, what, what are you doing? You're paying off your house? You're trying to pay off your house?

• 37:22Rachel Cruze?

  That's a weird goal. You could be doing X, Y, Z. They may throw math, that's just spreadsheets, all of it. But there's something about the common sense approach to money that gives peace of mind and it allows you to build wealth.

• 37:33George Kamel?

  Beautifully said. I do think there's, there's a superpower in not caring what other people think.

• 37:37Rachel Cruze?

  Hmm, that's true too.

• 37:38George Kamel?

  Cause too many of us are influenced by the pressures we have from family and friends. And what are they going to think? And well, it's just easier to make them happy.

• 37:45Rachel Cruze?

  It's the ego, George.

• 37:46George Kamel?

  There's ego involved.

• 37:47Rachel Cruze?

  It is to go down, to go backwards. What feels like backwards in lifestyle for some of this.

• 37:52George Kamel?

  To sell your $52,000 SUV and drive a beater? And the family's now like, what are you driving? What happened to your nice car?

• 37:58Rachel Cruze?

  That is, it is.

• 37:59George Kamel?

  Do you hate your family? This is not safe to be driving around your toddler in this car. There's all kinds of things you're going to face as you do weird things. And you have to just put blinders on and go, if they don't pay my bills, they don't get a vote. This is what's right for me and my family. And it's for a season or it's forever. If you're going to be a cash and debit person and you're going to get flack for it from the people who, you know, maybe love you most sometimes.

• 38:24Rachel Cruze?

  Absolutely.

• 38:24George Kamel?

  But you gotta stick to your guns.

• 38:26Rachel Cruze?

  I love it. It's great job, George.

• 38:28George Kamel?

  It was fun.

• 38:28Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, before we spill the tea on our guiltiest charge segments, um, who's? I think you may.

• 38:34George Kamel?

  I beat you to it.

• 38:34Rachel Cruze?

  I think you did beat me. Can I say this stayed frozen? Well done. Whatever the, I don't even know what the combination was, but it just stayed frozen.

• 38:41George Kamel?

  They used some really high quality ice in here. This was a virgin pina colada. Very simple ingredients. You'll be shocked. Pineapple juice, cream of coconut plus ice.

• 38:53Rachel Cruze?

  Is that it?

• 38:54George Kamel?

  In a blender. One dollar and 12 cents.

• 38:57Rachel Cruze?

  Oh.

• 38:57George Kamel?

  And not a penny more.

• 38:58Rachel Cruze?

  My kids would chug this.

• 39:00George Kamel?

  This is a great, I'm going 10 out of 10.

• 39:03Rachel Cruze?

  I might too. I mean genuinely, yes, 10 out of 10. So good.

• 39:06George Kamel?

  Take me to the all-inclusive.

• 39:08Rachel Cruze?

  You know, one of my favorite videos, have you seen it? Well, they have an alcohol version of this video I'm about to talk about. Where it's like, hi, it's girls night and this is my first drink. And then it's like, hi, it's girls night, this is my second, whatever. They have a kid version where like, this is my first pina colada. It's like a little kid and then it's like,

• 39:23George Kamel?

  That's so cute.

• 39:24Rachel Cruze?

  This is me after my second pina colada. And he like goes all the way up to like 12 on his trip with his family. It's so cute.

• 39:30George Kamel?

  Until he just has like a sugar crash.

• 39:32Rachel Cruze?

  I know, right? He like freaks out on the sugar. I don't know, but it's so funny.

• 39:34George Kamel?

  Or pee their pants. That's more likely to happen, I guess, at that point. That's just, that's a lot of liquid for a little kid to carry.

• 39:40Rachel Cruze?

  Going into the 12 year old, damn.

• 39:41George Kamel?

  I've been there.

• 39:42Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, that's so funny. Well.

• 39:44George Kamel?

  Yeah, you're 10 out of 10 too.

• 39:45Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 39:46George Kamel?

  All right, shout out. The producers have been on it.

• 39:48Rachel Cruze?

  I know. Gosh, so yeah, this, um.

• 39:51George Kamel?

  And this is one you can make for the kids too, which is fun.

• 39:53Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 39:54George Kamel?

  So the recipe is in the show notes. Give it a try this weekend. And if you want to spice it up and spike it, that's your prerogative. You're an adult. You do what you want to do.

• 40:01Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, this feels very Caribbean to me, George.

• 40:05George Kamel?

  Yes, it does. Are you thinking what I'm thinking?

• 40:07Rachel Cruze?

  I know. Are you thinking Ramsey Cruise 2027?

• 40:11George Kamel?

  I think we should do it.

• 40:12Rachel Cruze?

  I think we should. Did you know we did a Smart Money Happy Hour twice at sea on the last Ramsey Cruise?

• 40:18George Kamel?

  So epic with a special, we had a special commemorative Smart Money Happy Hour tiki glass.

• 40:24Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, and people got to buy it. Yeah, okay, some people don't even know. You may not even know, we did a Ramsey Cruise. Did you know that? I feel like sometimes it's news to people. They didn't know.

• 40:31George Kamel?

  March of 2025.

• 40:32Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, so we did a Ramsey Cruise with everyone that was on baby steps four, five, six, and seven. So debt-free, all the things, an entire cruise ship of Ramsey people.

• 40:42George Kamel?

  Can you picture it? Like 2,500 of our closest friends?

• 40:45Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, and yeah, and for a week, we took sail around the Caribbean and it was so fun. We got to speak at night. We did live podcast episodes like Smart Money Happy Hour. There was comedians and musical guests, magic shows, fun entertainment, good food and drink. Like it was so fun. All the Ramsey personalities were there. Dave and Sharon were there all week.

• 41:03George Kamel?

  And everyone was so kind. I was like this, and even the staff was like, who are these people?

• 41:07Rachel Cruze?

  No, seriously, y'all. It was-

• 41:08George Kamel?

  These are the kindest-

• 41:09Rachel Cruze?

  They were the nicest people.

• 41:10George Kamel?

  Cruisers we've ever dealt with.

• 41:11Rachel Cruze?

  Yes, so like, yeah, I was in the spa one day and like doing my massage, was like, I don't know who you all are. She's like, but we've never been tipped more.

• 41:17George Kamel?

  That's right.

• 41:17Rachel Cruze?

  She said the generosity was amazing. All of it. And other cruisers were saying that, they're like, we're just so glad to be in an environment like, where you're, where it's like-minded.

• 41:25George Kamel?

  It was very positive. It was like a utopia.

• 41:27Rachel Cruze?

  It was so good. So, the invitation has already gone out to those cruisers and it's filling up quick, because they're all wanting to go again, because it was so great.

• 41:35George Kamel?

  It's now become a tradition. They want to come back.

• 41:36Rachel Cruze?

  Yes. So, we are going, I think it's what, the Western Caribbean this time?

• 41:42George Kamel?

  Sure.

• 41:42Rachel Cruze?

  We're going to different islands, um, but it is gonna be-

• 41:45George Kamel?

  You could fool me with some white sand and a beautiful ocean.

• 41:48Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, I know, yeah.

• 41:48George Kamel?

  It's all the same.

• 41:50Rachel Cruze?

  So, we are, um, yeah, hitting the seas again, you guys, uh, March of 2027. So, we'll put a link down below if you want to join us.

• 41:56George Kamel?

  The Ramsey Live Like No One Else Cruise is upon us. You can book your cabin now and save up to 200 bucks online only. So, go to ramsysolutions.com/cruise to book your cabin today, or click the link in the show notes. And again, it'll be the entirety of the Ramsey team, all the Ramsey personalities, Rachel, myself, Dave, Deloney, Ken, Jay.

• 42:16Rachel Cruze?

  We'll do Smart Money Happy Hour live again. That was so fun.

• 42:18George Kamel?

  It really is the most fun.

• 42:19Rachel Cruze?

  Do you know the best part was, we started and it was like, hi, I'm Rachel Cruz, I'm George Kamel, and this is, and the whole audience went, "Smart Money Happy Hour."

• 42:27George Kamel?

  It was so epic. I was like, I could die happy. This is the best.

• 42:31Rachel Cruze?

  It was so good. So fun.

• 42:33George Kamel?

  Have you ever felt more of like a rock star than 2,500 people who are like, "I'm here for this podcast."

• 42:39Rachel Cruze?

  We love this podcast.

• 42:41George Kamel?

  We love a good podcast. They were ready to learn. They were like, I was like, guys-

• 42:45Rachel Cruze?

  That was the other funny thing.

• 42:46George Kamel?

  Let your hair down. And they're like, no, we want to learn about mutual funds.

• 42:48Rachel Cruze?

  Every session was packed. We were like-

• 42:50George Kamel?

  Q and As.

• 42:51Rachel Cruze?

  Are y'all not gonna go like hang out on your own?

• 42:53George Kamel?

  Well, we have to do something in case people want to learn. Then they all flooded. Every single session was filled.

• 42:58Rachel Cruze?

  There was an insurance Q and A and it was full. They had to turn people away. I was like, what is happening?

• 43:03George Kamel?

  So fun. Can't wait to see you all there. Let us know in the comments if you plan on coming. If you're on a YouTube, Spotify, leave a comment. Let us know.

• 43:10Rachel Cruze?

  All right, now it's time for Guilty As Charged. And this is where we ask each other a guilty as charged question every week, and if we're guilty, we take a sip. All right, you ready, George?

• 43:19George Kamel?

  Can I ask this one?

• 43:20Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, sure.

• 43:21George Kamel?

  All right. Have you ever gone into full panic mode thinking you accidentally bought way too much of something, Rachel? I don't know, maybe it was Backstreet Boys tickets, could have been anything. You wouldn't happen to have a story like that, would you? You've never panicked bought.

• 43:39Rachel Cruze?

  Oh my.

• 43:41George Kamel?

  Is that a thing you would do?

• 43:42Rachel Cruze?

  Oh my lord, geez.

• 43:43George Kamel?

  That you've been guilty of?

• 43:45Rachel Cruze?

  Geez, I can't believe you're right, yeah. Okay.

• 43:47George Kamel?

  That I had to pull you from the depths out of to save you?

• 43:51Rachel Cruze?

  Sure, he did. You were a great friend in that moment to me. Um, okay, yeah, okay, so.

• 43:58George Kamel?

  Guilty.

• 43:59Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 44:00George Kamel?

  I'm gonna take a sip just for entertainment's sake.

• 44:03Rachel Cruze?

  Oh my gosh, okay, so I went to Backstreet Boys last year and it changed my life. It genuinely was the closest to heaven I might have ever been. I felt so alive.

• 44:13George Kamel?

  God would like to have a word.

• 44:14Rachel Cruze?

  So, no, he gets it, he created them. We're all created in his image, so he knows.

• 44:19George Kamel?

  Just because they wore all white once doesn't mean they're angels, Rachel.

• 44:22Rachel Cruze?

  No, it was, it was honestly such a fun experience. And so, I was chatting up with some other friends and two of them are turning 40, back to the 40, this is like where I'm at. And they were like, I wanna go to the Backstreet Boys, I was like, I'll go again. And they're like, you, so then we finally like, she texts, she followed up with the text, and she was like, no seriously, these dates, and then it gets serious, right? People start throwing out dates and you're like, oh my gosh.

• 44:44George Kamel?

  This is real.

• 44:45Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, I could, I could go here. So we're like, we're doing it. And I was like, okay, well, I'll get the tickets since I've been and I can try to find the sections that are good with a good price point. So, I always do Ticketmaster to buy my tickets. So I'm going and I find four, and it's actually a pretty good, like, I was like, okay, this is good. I go and it's like, sorry, and it went through and it was like unavailable, and then it would take me to this weird ad, pop up, and I'm like, what is going on? And I seriously, I seriously sat in my car, I did it like three or four times, then you start sweating, because you're like, why is it not working? Why is it not working? Someone's gonna get these tickets, oh my god. And I start panicking, well, I have to do the show, I'm in the parking lot at Ramsey, and it's like 12:52, and I have to be on air in like, I don't know, 12 minutes.

• 45:25George Kamel?

  At 1:00 PM, with me.

• 45:27Rachel Cruze?

  George is hosting with me that day. So I get up and I'm like, George, I'm so stressed, I have got to get these Backstreet Boys tickets, and it's not letting me. Look, this is what keeps popping up, and I'm showing them, and you're like, that looks like a scam. I'm like, I know, but it's coming from Ticketmaster, I don't get it. And then George was like, okay, next break. So then the next break comes, we had to go out and take pictures. We come back and I still have a moment. I'm like, I shouldn't need another break to do this. Then we get to the next break and George is like, did you know about?

• 45:52George Kamel?

  Tickpick.

• 45:52Rachel Cruze?

  Tickpick. And I'm like, never heard of tickpick. Sounds like I'm picking off a tick, but no, I'm not earning tickpick. And you were like, it's a great place to buy tickets. I was like, okay, George is my, he's my dealmaker. He's my friend that does all the, all the weird websites. So I'm like, so then I go, Tickpick legitimately was cheaper.

• 46:08George Kamel?

  For the same seats?

• 46:09Rachel Cruze?

  Yes. So I was like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna buy them. And I found the same four seats that was, I was trying, I was like, and so I do it. My card doesn't go through, remember? So then I'm like having to call Winston on the next break. Long story short, I get the tickets, but then I go and refresh, refresh my Gmail. Ticketmaster has emailed me like six times to-

• 46:29George Kamel?

  Confirmed, confirmed.

• 46:31Rachel Cruze?

  To claim my tickets. And I thought, oh my goodness. Oh my gosh, I just bought, I just bought 18 tickets to Backstreet Boys. Like I-

• 46:39George Kamel?

  Every time you refresh.

• 46:40Rachel Cruze?

  I have 16 tickets of Backstreet Boys. I just spent thousands of dollars. And so then I start panicking because I was like, oh my gosh, George, oh my gosh, what am I gonna do? And he's like, it's okay, you can resell them, you can resell them. And I was like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, do I have enough of my check? Like, am I gonna bounce it?

• 46:56George Kamel?

  In an overdraft?

• 46:57Rachel Cruze?

  I mean, seriously, and then we have to go back on air. So then I'm talking to Sally about her car payment and I'm just sweating thinking, oh my gosh, I've just gone bankrupt on Backstreet Boys tickets. But it felt like, then it turned out, so, I'm so dramatic, that no, it is, that's not true. Tickpick just sent me through Ticketmaster each individual ticket and confirmation email. So it was all just a jump scare. How about you, George? Anything?

• 47:26George Kamel?

  Uh, when I buy something, it's so intentional. So if it's ever something I'm not sure about, like I get transaction alerts. So it's always something outrageous and I'm just immediately text Whitney, hey, was this you? Yes, it was me.

• 47:38Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah.

• 47:38George Kamel?

  And I sleep soundly at night, knowing it's my wife and not a- Although I do think if we got hacked, the hacker would spend less than my wife does. So I'm like, should we try it?

• 47:49Rachel Cruze?

  Maybe we should, maybe we should get the car shatung of a hacker. Oh, too good.

• 47:53George Kamel?

  I only buy a lot of things that I know I'm gonna use. I famously bought a box of bar soap. Because they were gonna, it was gonna get discontinued.

• 48:03Rachel Cruze?

  Oh, so you're like, I need like a pallet.

• 48:04George Kamel?

  So I need to stock up.

• 48:05Rachel Cruze?

  I need a pallet of this.

• 48:05George Kamel?

  They'll never make it again.

• 48:06Rachel Cruze?

  What kind of, what kind of soap?

• 48:07George Kamel?

  It was like an Irish Spring did like an oat bar situation.

• 48:11Rachel Cruze?

  Yeah, and you loved it.

• 48:12George Kamel?

  I was a young man, you know?

• 48:14Rachel Cruze?

  And they said, "Discontinue the soap," and George said, "I think not. I need to wash my hands of wats with the soap in the shower."

• 48:21George Kamel?

  Someone at Walmart really packed a box full of soap going, "Someone really needs these bars."

• 48:25Rachel Cruze?

  That's so good.

• 48:26George Kamel?

  But I used them for years.

• 48:27Rachel Cruze?

  Okay, that's good. That's a, that's a good one. Better than...

• 48:31George Kamel?

  No panic, though.

• 48:32Rachel Cruze?

  Okay. Cool as a cucumber. See, that's me. I'm so urgent. I will do things like that.

• 48:37George Kamel?

  Well, you are, you tend to be impulsive, which is why I think you need the budget more than anyone.

• 48:41Rachel Cruze?

  That might be true. You know, but we live on the edge. I have more fun.

• 48:45George Kamel?

  That's right. And you're gonna have a great time at Backstreet Boys coming up here soon. So we'll report back.

• 48:49Rachel Cruze?

  So if you have a Guilty as Charged question, make sure to DM us at Rachel Cruz and at George Kamel. We would love to use it. And if you enjoyed this episode, you are going to love the episode that we did on, "Are These Common Money Habits Broke, Average, or Wealthy?" So we'll put the link down below for you. And make sure to subscribe to the channel so you don't miss an all-new episode of

• 49:12George Kamel?

  Smart Money Happy Hour.