#61 Tyler Grey - Delta Force Operator's Darkest Hour in War / Overcoming Self Doubt | Part 1

Episode #61 is a masterclass in self discovery and self worth. Tyler Grey is a former Army Ranger Sniper & Delta Force Operator turned Actor and Director. You might know him from the hit CBS series "SEAL Team." In part one of this two-part series, Grey recounts his childhood, where he found his love for the military and film. He unpacks his socially awkward history and how his childhood would impact his future endeavors. He tells us about his experience making the SEAL team show. Grey and Shawn also focus in on ideas of self worth and "nature vs. nurture." Grey also covers his early days in the ranger regiment plus a run in with the beginnings of Blackwater and its creator and former SRS Guest - Erik Prince. Grey vividly describes how a bad day in Baghdad gets worse and what it feels like to look your enemy in the eye. We are proud to share his story. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://moinkbox.com/srs https://mudwtr.com/shawn - USE CODE "SHAWNMUD" https://bubsnaturals.com - USE CODE "SHAWN" https://learshawn.com - Best Way to Invest in Gold: Lear Capital Call them today at 800-741-0551 or go to https://LearShawn.com Get your FREE Gold and Silver investor guides from Lear Capital Receive up to $15,000 in FREE bonus metals with a qualified purchase Information contained within Lear Capital’s website is for general educational purposes and is not investment, tax, or legal advice. Past performance may not be indicative of future results. Consult with your tax attorney or financial professional before making an investment decision. Tyler Grey Links: SEAL Team Series - https://www.cbs.com/shows/seal-team/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tyleragrey Please leave us a review on Apple & Spotify Podcasts. Vigilance Elite/Shawn Ryan Links: Website | Patreon | TikTok | Instagram Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:29Speaker 01

  Mr. President? My company tore me of the explosion on our rig.

• 0:32Speaker 02

  On October 2nd.

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  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

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  Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 0:46Speaker 03

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• 0:50Speaker 02

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• 0:53Speaker 03

  I'm not the first then.

• 0:54Speaker 02

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without parent.

• 1:00Shawn Ryan?

  Hey, everybody. Welcome back. These next couple of weeks, we're getting back to our roots here. What do I mean by that? Well, we have a former Delta Force operator coming on the show. It's gonna be a two-part series, broken up into two weeks. Super heavy. Ironically, this Delta guy produces and directs the show SEAL Team, which is pretty funny considering he's an Army guy producing a show about Navy SEALs. But he does a phenomenal job at it. He's all over the film industry, also an actor. Guy's definitely a jack of all trades. And this episode goes super deep. I think you all are gonna get a lot out of it.

• 1:44Shawn Ryan?

  We're recording history here. We're bringing hope to people. We are showing how you can overcome all of life's challenges. This guy's no different.

• 1:56Shawn Ryan?

  Such a positive message with this one. Patreon, this is because of you guys. Thank you. Once again, it's your support that makes this show happen. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart. Thank you. I love you. If you can't support us on Patreon, please head over to Apple Podcast or Spotify or both and leave us a review. Tell us how we're doing. Tell us who you'd like to see coming up on the show. A lot of good stuff coming. Anyways, ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, please welcome my friend Tyler Gray, former Delta operator to the Sean Ryan Show. Enjoy it. Love you all. See you next week.

• 2:42Shawn Ryan?

  Tyler, welcome to the Sean Ryan Show, man.

• 2:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, thanks, man. Great to finally be here.

• 2:48Shawn Ryan?

  It's an honor.

• 2:49Speaker 05

  Same.

• 2:50Shawn Ryan?

  I have been wanting to interview you for the longest time and then somehow we got connected. Oh, yeah, we got connected through a comment.

• 2:58Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:59Shawn Ryan?

  On Instagram.

• 3:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think on another podcast, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, I'm, I'm, you know, it's funny how things start, or you know how you

• 3:14Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:15Speaker 05

  It's just, well, at least now, you know, now it's just the littlest thing and you see something like, oh, you know, I know, I know who that is. I know that, you know, I'll go do that.

• 3:25Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:25Speaker 05

  Actually, this is the, yeah, this is the first podcast I've ever traveled for. So.

• 3:30Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, cool.

• 3:31Speaker 05

  Um, yeah, it's a, um, I mean, you know, it's a, you know, being in LA, you know, I'm lucky that a lot of, uh, people will come out there for other stuff and then set up and do multiple people. So I've been lucky that way. But definitely, this is a lesson that I need to, I need to travel. Well, at least I can now. So that works out. But, uh, yeah, great to be here.

• 3:59Shawn Ryan?

  Well, it's a pleasure having you.

• 4:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, thank you.

• 4:01Shawn Ryan?

  So we're gonna go through your childhood, then we'll get into your military career. Let me give you a brief introduction. So Army Ranger, Delta Operator, Actor, Producer, Director. My first question, how the hell does a Delta guy get out and then produce the show SEAL Team?

• 4:25Speaker 05

  Sweet irony.

• 4:30Speaker 05

  It's funny you say that because there's a show called Echo Three on Apple. That's got some Delta guys and it's advised by a SEAL. No shit. And then the movie Triple Frontier, which my buddies Kevin and Nate worked on, both SEALs, or former SEALs, it's about Delta guys and they advise that. So it's, you know, it's,

• 4:56Speaker 05

  you know, it's the, you know, the executive producer, or, you know, he,

• 5:04Speaker 05

  you know, was a SEAL in Dev and, you know, he kinda, he had a book and the show was kind of, I mean, not based on it, but, you know, derivative of that,

• 5:19Speaker 05

  you know, the teams or that team, I guess, specifically. And so I had been working in Hollywood for maybe seven years at that time.

• 5:34Speaker 05

  Mostly on movies. I think I'd done a couple of shows, but mostly movies, which is sporadic. A movie will, you know, like Suicide Squad, I got a call and they're like, hey, can you leave in four days for six months? And that's how they go. And then you're there for six months and then, you know, you won't do another movie for four months. So, so I was actually bodyguarding. Bodyguarding was my waiter job. Really? In the Hollywood. Yeah, I was bodyguarding for, I think, almost a decade. Yeah, I did, I did every type of EP work there is. I mean, corporate, you name it, friggin', music tours,

• 6:15Speaker 05

  everything. I don't think there's a category that I didn't check the block, whether intentionally or unintentionally, but I actually had a corporate gig that was a unicorn.

• 6:30Speaker 05

  And, but I, you know, done movies and stuff like that and the...

• 6:38Speaker 05

  The other call, so two calls right, one was to Marcus, who you know, Capone, who I know as well, great guy, and he couldn't do it, I forget what he was doing, and then they called me and because the EP, you know, the SEAL, who was the EP, you know, he had worked on the, you know, the pilot, you know, done everything with the writer, but he couldn't do the onset stuff because of prior commitments and, and he'd never done, obviously, he knew the authentic component of To Make It Real, obviously, but the, the way the film industry works, you

• 7:16Speaker 05

  know, he had no experience in, so they called me and I actually quit that job that, and it was a pilot, I mean, there's, the, the odds of a pilot getting picked up to a show are like one in, one in a hundred, very rare. I just had a good feeling about it, so I quit that, that corporate EP gig, and again, I think, I think it was like a Wednesday and they wanted me to leave on Friday to go to New Orleans to shoot the pilot for six weeks. And so I quit and went out there and, you know, it's, the thing I'll say about the

• 8:00Speaker 05

  show is, it's a unique combination. We, on that show, have been able to do what we've done, just because of a unique, unique combination of factors, you know, like, are there a bunch of military people that, you know, know tactics gear? Oh, of course, but we just got a group of people that cared to listen, is the very short way to say it. Interesting. Yeah, because, look, if, if I tell you, you've got those helmets, and again, I'm using gear as an example, you've got those, I'm gonna say it this way, this'll, this'll, this'll

• 8:42Speaker 05

  perfectly summarize what happened. So, and it's kind of a funny story. So, again, making a pilot about Dead Group. So I show up, I get there in New Orleans. I think we had a week and a half of prep before filming started. And filming, by the way, again, I don't know how much you know, so excuse me if you already knows. Well, audience, someone will not know. I've never been on a Hollywood set, so. Okay, well, if you want, come on out, or now that COVID's over. But so basically, everything's shot out of order. It's all shot based on the logistics of the location.

• 9:21Speaker 05

  Story order means nothing. You know, we have to go here, then we have to go here. So once you're there, you shoot all the scenes there. Once you go there, you shoot all the scenes there. It's just. Oh, wow. Yeah, which is for acting and everything's out of order. So it's, it's definitely difficult. Like Lord of the Rings, shooting three movies out of order.

• 9:45Speaker 05

  I act on camera. I don't know how those guys did it. Like, it boggles my mind. Like, you're shooting week two.

• 9:54Speaker 05

  The characters knowing each other for five years. Like, wow, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know how they track that. But anyways. So I get there, week and a half till filming, and I'm like, all right, you know, you know, like, what you got? You know, you got all these departments. So I go to, I go look at the wardrobe and props. Props, I'm not, I'm not joking, has like black Black Hawk vests from like 2008.

• 10:27Speaker 05

  That like freaking, you know, podunk SWAT team wouldn't be caught dead in, you know, I was just like, eh, you know, like, okay, ah, you know, what do you got for, that's like a wardrobe, you know, like the uniforms, they got two uniforms. They got the blueberries.

• 10:48Speaker 05

  Navy uniform at the time. Wow. And then they had uh the blueberries and the it's not A R two, but it's the the green um uh what guacamole avocados, whatever they call them. But again, the the the the dress version, you know? And I was just like, oh shit. Um, all right. Uh. I go to the producer or the line producer and I'm like, ah, okay. So here's the deal. Um, you have nothing. Like, you have nothing. Like, we're filming in a week and a half and you don't have anything. And he's like, what do you mean? You know, we had props. And again, it's not the props in the wardrobe people. Wardrobe people were great.

• 11:31Speaker 05

  You know, it they do research and unless you know, like some airsoft forum, you're not finding current freaking dev group issued stuff. Yeah. You know what I mean? They don't know, even with the internet, they don't know where to look. And you're not going to find it in a Google search. So they look up Navy uniform, blueberries, simple. I can order blueberries, you know, or the that camo pattern. So I was just like, oh, man. Uh, yeah, you guys got nothing. Um, all right, let me let me make some calls. And a guy that I know had been doing photo shoots for for gear companies for quite some time. For like, I don't know, eight years. And and I'd, you know, with them.

• 12:16Speaker 05

  Deal was you go do the photo shoot like that, you know, take some cool photos. You don't get paid, you know, but you they let you keep the gear. Which, that's worth it for me if I can go right on. You know, it was fun. So I I knew what he had. So I called him up and I'm like, hey, dude.

• 12:34Speaker 05

  And again.

• 12:38Speaker 05

  How many people would do what I'm about to say? So I called him up. I'm like, hey, man, I'm working on this project.

• 12:44Speaker 05

  I need you. He was in L. A. I'm like, I need you to fly to New York tomorrow.

• 12:50Speaker 05

  Box up all your stuff and overnight it to New Orleans. And he's like, oh, okay. Um, are they going to rent it from me? No. He's like, okay, um, all right, I'll I'll hook you up. Um, oh, are they going to pay for my flight? I'm like, no.

• 13:12Speaker 05

  And he's like, uh, okay. And I, and I just told him, like, dude, they don't know what they don't know. Like, they don't know that they have nothing. I know it. You know it, because I explained it to him. But I'm like, they, to them, we need military stuff. They got military stuff. They got uniforms and they got, you know, tactical vest. They're good to them. To us, we'd watch it and go, you know, we'd laugh. And that is, by the way, why stuff is wrong all the time. Damn. Because it's that simple.

• 13:48Speaker 05

  We got military guys. Do we have military gear? Yep, we're good. They don't know what they don't know. Gotcha. And that's the fundamental thing. And, and, and so anyways, I hadn't, he shipped the gear. It came in. I mean, he had every cry uniform and every freaking size. Every cry vest. Dude had a ton of AOR1 stuff, like, oh, that was the other thing, too, by the way. Before I called him, they're like, uh, okay, well, you know, you know, we'll, we'll just, well, you tell us what to buy and we'll buy it. And I go, uh, you can't. I'm like, A, you know, the lead time on any of this stuff would be a couple of months. And B, you know, because they wanted AOR1 specifically

• 14:33Speaker 05

  at the time. And I'm like, literally, you can't buy it. I was like, so anyways, he got all that stuff and we used his gear for the entire first season. Wow. Yeah. And, and by the way, sorry, kind of the, to, to sum up that story. When I was like, no, they're not even going to pay for your flight. I was like, just, just, I will figure out how to pay you back. I don't know how yet, but just trust me. How many people would fly, buy a ticket, fly to New York? Like, how many people would do that? Probably not very many. Not very many. And what's funny about it is then, three weeks later,

• 15:16Speaker 05

  planning the stunt to fast rope, you know, we fast roped on the pilot. And they wanted someone to fast rope a dog, a Malinois. And that some SWAT guy there was like, oh, yeah, I can do it. So I was like, well, how many times has he fast roped? Oh, no, he's done the tower. Sorry, what? Oh, yeah. He said he's done the course and fast roped his tower. I'm like,

• 15:40Speaker 05

  So fast roping is done from a helicopter, you know, like it's a, you know, no one deploys from a tower. Um, but you know, I, I mean, I was just like, dude, I don't care how many times he's done it out of a tower. Has he done it from a helicopter?

• 15:53Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 15:54Speaker 05

  You know, and, and again, could you go from a tower to helicopter? Yeah. I mean, we, we did at some point, but not with a dog, not with a live dog.

• 16:03Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 16:03Speaker 05

  You know, I'm like, hell no. If he hasn't fast roped live, I mean, he's not going to fast rope on camera with the dog for the first time. There's no way. Anyways, so that guy, Justin, had fast roped and had a Malinois. And because I had done a lot of photo shoots with him, like I knew he could move tactically and everything. So I was like, I got a guy for you. And he is still on the show to this day.

• 16:29Shawn Ryan?

  No shit.

• 16:30Speaker 05

  Yep. Yep. Justin Milnick, it's his Dita, well, uh, service is his dog Dita. Yeah. So kind of a funny, um, you know, just how, how things work out. Um, but that's how,

• 16:47Speaker 05

  again, we, we just, that kind of mechanism, uh, we've always, we got the best armor in the business. Like our props guys listen, like they work with us, like, cause the thing is if you go in and you go, hey, you should have this over this. Which one's less? This one?

• 17:07Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 17:07Speaker 05

  There's, there's conversations over because they're not going to spend more money for authenticity. So it's about how do you keep the budget the same and get the right or as close as you can get. So, um, anyways, um, yeah, we've been really lucky to, to be able to, you know, do so many, I mean, is it a dramatic TV show? It's like I tell everyone, people are always like, oh, is it real? I'm like, we would literally be dead every episode a hundred times. And our characters would probably be getting a medal of honor every other episode, if not every episode.

• 17:51Speaker 05

  You know, um, I'm like, no, it's not realistic at all. Um, but in tone, is it authentic? Does it feel authentic? You know, and I, and I think.

• 18:04Speaker 05

  We, you know, we definitely try hard to do that. And, and I think that's why the show has resonated with, um. I mean, it's one thing to resonate with civilians, but when the military, and I'm not going to say like, when the military doesn't hate a military show or movie, that's a home run. And I told him that too, like for a season, I'm like, if anyone in the military watches it and doesn't hate it, home run. They're like, well, what if they like it? I'm like, they're not gonna like it. But if they don't hate it, I'm like, it's great. Or, you know, it's, if there's not stuff that where you're just watching and getting so distracted by some dumb bullshit that somebody, you know, messed up and, you know, whatever.

• 18:47Speaker 05

  Um, if you, if you get the details right, people will focus on the story. If you get the, if all the details are wrong, it'll just, you'll just stop, you'll just tune out. Yeah. So, um, yeah, it's been, it's been great.

• 19:02Shawn Ryan?

  That's awesome, man. Well, let's get into some more about you, less about, sure, less about SEAL Team.

• 19:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 19:12Shawn Ryan?

  Everybody starts out with a gift.

• 19:14Speaker 05

  Oh, I did not know that.

• 19:18Shawn Ryan?

  Everybody starts out with a gift. Any guesses?

• 19:22Speaker 05

  The only thing I can think of right now is it's a Jack in the Box and it's going to be a boxing glove and punch me in the face. Which if you didn't do, you should definitely do at some point.

• 19:31Shawn Ryan?

  Noted, noted.

• 19:34Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 19:37Shawn Ryan?

  Those are gummy bears. Those are vigilante league gummy bears. They're actually legal in all 50 states, so you can fly back home with them.

• 19:45Speaker 05

  Are they actual gummy bears?

• 19:47Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, they're actual gummy.

• 19:48Speaker 05

  Okay. Cause I was like, you said they're legal. Oh, you know what? I'm, I'm really glad you got, I was just looking at the hats down there. So that's awesome. Where did you come up with gummy bears from?

• 20:00Shawn Ryan?

  It's a long story, but, uh, I just, I love candy, man.

• 20:05Speaker 05

  Hey, freaking.

• 20:06Shawn Ryan?

  Everybody else is doing protein shakes and everything else.

• 20:09Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 20:10Shawn Ryan?

  Hey.

• 20:11Speaker 05

  I'm gonna, you can have this. I'll give you an idea. Protein gummies, done.

• 20:15Shawn Ryan?

  I like it. I like it.

• 20:17Speaker 05

  There you go. You'll be the SEAL Willy Wonka.

• 20:25Shawn Ryan?

  Well, let's talk about childhood. I listened to a couple of your podcasts. You didn't really go too into detail that I heard about childhood, but I can tell it was definitely a rough upbringing, it sounds like.

• 20:43Speaker 05

  So.

• 20:45Shawn Ryan?

  Where'd you grow up?

• 20:48Speaker 05

  Bakersfield, California.

• 20:50Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 20:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, which I remember getting off the plane in Iraq and being like, hmm, looks like Bakersfield.

• 21:01Speaker 05

  You know, same heat, you know, well, it's hotter there, but um, you know, here's the thing is, is and we were talking about this earlier, not, not, not related to childhood, but you, you know, you say, or you said, you know, a rough childhood. I, I would not say that at all because I know, you know, plenty of people who's freaking, you know, were beat every day, you know, physically by their or one or both parents, you know, I did not have that upbringing. I know a guy who literally grew up in a motel and his mom was a prostitute, you know? I did not have that upbringing, so

• 21:47Speaker 05

  I didn't have,

• 21:51Speaker 05

  I didn't have a rough childhood. Um, I mean, I'll, I'll explain. That being said, there's a saying, and I think this is very apt, which is no one gets out of childhood unscathed.

• 22:03Speaker 05

  Everyone carries some form of trauma from childhood. Talk to a person that had the, the, the leave it to Beaver childhood and there's something in that that messed them up. Uh, or, you know, that, that caused them trauma. And on that note too, it's, it's, um, I actually went to this grief, uh, recovery institute. It's a great, great course, but their big thing is everyone grieves at the same level. And I'm not talking about grieving childhood, but in that if you, um, if you, uh,

• 22:45Speaker 05

  You know, shit from being overseas, like you, you lost buddies, blah, blah, blah, or you know, whatever it is, and you're grieving that. And then you get to this thing and the woman next to you freaking had her kid die. You're like, oh dude, I don't, I don't compare to that. You know what I mean? And their whole thing is, no, no, no, everyone grieves at the same level. Like, there's no, like, oh, your grief is worse than mine, because everything is relative to you.

• 23:14Shawn Ryan?

  Yep.

• 23:14Speaker 05

  A level 10, you know, if the worst thing that's ever happened to me in my whole life is that, you know, somebody said I was stupid once, that's the worst thing that's ever happened to me. That's my level 10. It's not a universal level 10, but that's mine. And I've learned that over time with, with anything, but, but especially childhood. You know, so we all take certain traumas from that time period and, and they're, they're, I mean, I was just giving you, talking to you earlier about not comparing things and here I am comparing things. But, you know, my childhood, um, I'll give you the, I'll say it this way.

• 23:59Shawn Ryan?

  What were you into as a kid? What did you like to do?

• 24:04Speaker 05

  My favorite thing in the entire world? Play guns.

• 24:08Shawn Ryan?

  Playing guns?

• 24:09Speaker 05

  I'll show you a picture. I don't know if you, you seen the picture of me on the cover? Actually, I'll, I'll, I'll show you a couple of childhood photos that you'll laugh at. I, I don't even know if you, you know, if you ever weave things in, but I'll.

• 24:19Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, we'll definitely weave them in right now.

• 24:21Speaker 05

  I mean, I was, I, look, I, I've been asked this before about, you know, why did you join the military? And, and actually, sorry, I'll rephrase.

• 24:29Shawn Ryan?

  We're not there yet.

• 24:30Speaker 05

  Well, no, you'll, you'll see, like, people will say, why did you choose to join the military? And my response is, I, I don't think I chose it.

• 24:42Speaker 05

  When I was a kid, like it, it was so innate as a kid, like it was never a choice for me. It was just, that's who I was, you know, like dude, I'd wear full camouflage um to school. Not like hunting camouflage, woodland, you know, and dude, I would like as much as I could, you know, get my fake guns and go, you know, go play war, go play guns, whatever. That's, I would try and do that every single day. That's my favorite thing in the absolute world.

• 25:18Speaker 05

  And again, I mean, that's, I can't remember a, a, a time, like I can't remember anything before that. It's as far back as it goes.

• 25:30Speaker 05

  Ironically, my second favorite thing um was watching movies.

• 25:39Speaker 05

  And uh, I mean, dude, I watched Star Wars. I literally broke the tape because we like recorded it off TV on, you know? And I watch, I, I, I think it was a hundred and uh, a hundred and twenty, something like that. And it, it broke. I could have just, I guess, rerecorded it, but um, but yeah, I would just, dude, I was a movie fanatic. And um, well, that's actually, there's a reason for that. So um, I was a very, was a very strange kid.

• 26:21Speaker 05

  I was a very sensitive kid. Um, actually sensitive might be the wrong word. I was hyper aware. I was hyper aware in ways I shouldn't have been. And I was completely unaware in ways all the other kids were.

• 26:43Shawn Ryan?

  Let's go into an example.

• 26:46Speaker 05

  Um, I, I mean, just I, I remember this so clearly. And I don't know how old I was. Well, I was, I know, actually, I was under 10 just because of the house that we were in at the time. Uh, but all the kids, you know, it was like nighttime and, you know, it's like, I don't know, six neighborhood kids. And, uh, you know, like they had all this toilet paper and, you know, we were planning or they were planning like, you know, let's go toilet paper, old man Johnson, I don't remember the person's name, old man Johnson's house, you know, uh, tonight, that was like the plan. And, and then, you know, in the morning, the sprinklers will come on and it'll, you know, get into the, you know, and I just remember saying like,

• 27:29Speaker 05

  I, I don't, I don't want to do that. Like, he'll have to clean it up.

• 27:35Speaker 05

  Like, that's sad. Like, I don't want him to have to clean up. You know, like, to me, I was just like, why, like, I mean, he's not, he's not mean to us, or, you know, there's like no justification for it. I was just kind of like, um, not that I thought we needed one or one or one, but I, I just was like, no, I don't, I don't want to do that. Like, it just, it'd be sad, the thought of him having to clean all that shit up in the morning. And they were just like, like, like, what? You know, like, why are you, like, they didn't understand why I was thinking about that and I didn't go. And things happen like that a lot where I was like, you know, uncool, you, you know, like, I, like, as a kid, I had a lot of adult thoughts.

• 28:22Speaker 05

  Uh, like, I had a lot of adult kind of perspectives.

• 28:25Shawn Ryan?

  Where do you think that stemmed from?

• 28:28Speaker 05

  That's, um,

• 28:32Speaker 05

  that's a good question.

• 28:35Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  Mr. President, my company tore me of the explosion on our rig.

• 29:07Speaker 00

  On October 2nd.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

• 29:13Speaker 00

  Tom Cruise is.

• 29:15Speaker 02

  Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up.

• 29:18Speaker 00

  From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 29:21Speaker 03

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You're stalled, you freeze to death, that's what.

• 29:25Speaker 00

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 29:28Speaker 03

  I'm not the first daddy.

• 29:29Speaker 00

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without parent.

• 29:35Speaker 05

  I don't know. I...

• 29:37Shawn Ryan?

  Go ahead. Well, what were kids aware of that you weren't aware of?

• 29:40Speaker 05

  Um...

• 29:43Speaker 05

  I mean, socializing. Like, I was terrified of girls. Like, I... I mean, I had no...

• 29:54Shawn Ryan?

  No competence?

• 29:55Speaker 05

  They were like aliens. Like, I grew up with a brother, no sister. You know, I never... You know, I just like, I... I just didn't... I didn't get it, like, at all, you know? First...

• 30:09Shawn Ryan?

  Were you attracted to women?

• 30:11Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. I mean, dude, like, when I was a kid, like, my type, I knew from a very early age, was, you know, Wonder Woman. I was like...

• 30:20Speaker 05

  But, um... Yeah, I was like, eh. That was Baywatch before Baywatch, you know, saying the opening of Wonder Woman. But, um... But I just was like... I just didn't, um... I think my first... Well, uh... I don't think I actually, like, initiated something with a girl until I was probably in high school. Thinking about it.

• 30:48Speaker 05

  Like, the first girlfriend I ever had was in the fourth grade. And she asked me out, literally with a letter that said, like, do you like me? Check yes or no. Like, it was that. Second, like, you know, and I'm saying girlfriend, but they're like elementary school, you know, relationships. But, um, and the second girl, like, grabbed my hand during, uh,

• 31:13Speaker 05

  Belinda Carlisle, Heaven on Earth, the couple skate. She grabbed my hand and pulled me onto the skate. I mean, they, they both initiated something, you know? I, I didn't. And

• 31:29Speaker 05

  it was two things. A, I just had no awareness of like, I just had very low social awareness. I didn't know how to talk to girls. I just, and I'm gonna use the word game, which, but I just didn't understand, like, the social aspect of, um, I mean, I had no problem making friends. But far as like, kind of, um,

• 31:56Speaker 05

  socializing, socializing with the opposite sex, no, no concept. Completely foreign. What's that? Completely foreign to you. Yes, absolutely. And, um, and on top of that, you know, I,

• 32:12Speaker 05

  I really didn't, um,

• 32:16Speaker 05

  in hindsight now, obviously, I didn't know this then. But the other thing was, I mean, dude, I was, I was tall. I mean, I was lanky because as a kid, but I was tall. I mean, I wasn't a bad looking kid at all. I was probably a, a good looking kid. But in my head, you know, I was shit. And so, if you're shit,

• 32:39Speaker 05

  what are you gonna offer a girl? Why do you think that you thought you looked like shit? Uh, it wasn't that I thought I looked like shit. I thought I was shit. So what happened? Literally. The, the, uh, well, not literally, but figured I was shit. Yeah. No, I, so what happened to me was, um,

• 32:59Speaker 05

  When in my, when I was three, um, so my dad was an alcoholic, still is to this day. How I, I honestly don't know. Like, I don't know how he's still alive. Um, I actually, I know how he's still an alcoholic. I don't know how he's still alive. I mean, I've led a risky life and he's been worse than I am because I'm only half him. Um, somehow he's still alive. Um, alcoholic his whole life. Um, and so, you know, like I spent no time with my father, none. I, he would go to work, go to the bar, come home, pass out. I, I never,

• 33:45Speaker 05

  I mean, that was, I can remember, I could count probably on one hand, the times of like bonding time, you know, with him. Um, he was a mechanic, a heavy equipment mechanic, worked on like Caterpillar and John Deere, things like that.

• 34:05Speaker 05

  And so my brother was born when I was three. And I mean, this is eighty, eighty. Yeah, born in eighty.

• 34:17Speaker 05

  I mean, he had,

• 34:20Speaker 05

  you know, as, as severe of ADD, ADHD, freaking, you know, you name it. Like he was allergic to everything. I mean, I love my brother, but growing up with him was a nightmare. Like he would just wake up and scream non-stop for thirty minutes. And I'm not talking about when he was a baby. I'm talking when he was like ten.

• 34:43Speaker 05

  So, so anyways, the, the short version on that is that, um, you know, my dad was an alcoholic, so my parents constantly fought. Again, not a unique story. Once my brother was born.

• 34:58Speaker 05

  They, he, you know, you're talking about an alcoholic and a codependent. They're, you know, they're gonna fight just in general. Now take, uh, uh, uh, you know, a child that is just in ways impossible to raise. I mean, my brother stopped, literally stopped going to school in junior high school. Like, they couldn't get him to go to school. It's like, um, it was just one thing, special schools, you, you name it. You know, he had everything.

• 35:29Speaker 05

  And I, and I'm, I'm gonna say this and I'm gonna

• 35:34Speaker 05

  sound like an asshole, but it's what my mom always tells me, so I'll repeat it. But, you know, she, you know, she was like, you were like the, the perfect kid in that. I, I, I mean, I never caused any problems ever. I just, again, I was a sensitive kid. I was a nice kid, like, I never got into trouble. I, I just didn't do anything wrong.

• 35:59Speaker 05

  And I was easy, you know, I would, I spent a lot of time by myself, which is a very important piece. Um, cause my parents all fought all the time. As soon as they started fighting, I'd leave the house and go. And I had imaginary friends and, you know.

• 36:16Shawn Ryan?

  You had imaginary friends?

• 36:17Speaker 05

  Uh, yeah, two, Gage and DeSoto. Yeah, uh, which are actually both from the, uh, both those names are from the show Emergency. Uh, but yeah, Gage and, Gage and DeSoto were my homies. And, uh, yeah, we'd, we'd go and hang, chill.

• 36:33Shawn Ryan?

  What would you guys do?

• 36:38Speaker 05

  Playing guns was hard with them because they were really good. I could never find them.

• 36:45Speaker 05

  That was pretty dry. I should have made that more obvious, sorry.

• 36:52Speaker 05

  I actually, it's funny because I've learned this with my girlfriend. English is her second language and I'll like give sarcasm, but I'll give it so dry that she doesn't, it doesn't register as sarcasm. Yeah. And sometimes it could be like my sarcasm is sarcasm, but it's actually really offensive. But then I go so dry with it. She just gets like, like said, something really offensive. So. I do that too. Oh dude, I'm working on that, man. It's hard.

• 37:23Speaker 05

  But I think it's funnier the more dry it is. So anyways, um, and now we, you know, I would,

• 37:31Speaker 05

  I would go imagine stories. I would imagine adventures. So we'd go on adventures and I would just make shit up. How old are you at this point? Oh, I did that from probably

• 37:44Speaker 05

  four, four or five till

• 37:49Speaker 05

  definitely till we moved. So four or five till about 11.

• 37:55Speaker 05

  And, and, and I will, I'll kind of mention that along with something else, you know, I was, like I said, I was,

• 38:04Speaker 05

  I was

• 38:06Speaker 05

  uncool in the sense that, you know, all the, all the bad boy stuff I didn't, I just had no interest in, you know? And it wasn't interesting to me. So, you know, I was put in the uncool category and, um, and that was a big issue for me, which was, you know, like the kids, I just so happened to, the, the cul-de-sac I lived on had like two of the coolest kids in school, happened to live like, you know, three doors down and across the street, you know, just by chance. So, so we were like friends because, you know, we were together all the time, but also not, you know, because,

• 38:47Speaker 05

  but, you know, I would, you know, they'd go do stuff all the time. Like if I hung out with either one of them, everything was cool. We had fun, blah, blah, blah. But if it was both of them and me, it was shit on me time, you know? That's just how it was. And, and I get it, you know?

• 39:07Speaker 05

  And then a lot of times, you know, they'd go do stuff and wouldn't take me and, you know, I just remember, you know, feeling. Words on abandoned, but lonely, you know, feeling lonely. And then that's I'm sure one of those instances is where I, you know, made up the the friends from. But

• 39:29Shawn Ryan?

  I'm picturing you at a very specific lunch table.

• 39:34Speaker 05

  Trying to think of the cafe guy.

• 39:36Shawn Ryan?

  I mean.

• 39:37Speaker 05

  Thought of that cafeteria in a long time. I don't even remember where I ate, actually.

• 39:41Shawn Ryan?

  There's all the clicks and then there's the one lunch table. Where nobody really fits them with anybody.

• 39:48Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 39:49Shawn Ryan?

  And that was you.

• 39:51Speaker 05

  I can tell you that was. I don't super remember elementary school, but a hundred percent that was being high school. Like, I mean, I was. At one point I hung out with every group you can hang out with in high school.

• 40:05Speaker 05

  I don't think I hung out with the Goth kids, but. You know, I was athletic, so I played football and soccer, you know, like. Every group at one point. I hung out with, but I'd never really. I was never that definitive, like.

• 40:20Shawn Ryan?

  You never made the connection.

• 40:22Speaker 05

  Well, yeah, because I was like, I was, you know. Kind of interested in some of the things, but that wasn't like a hundred percent me. So like I would just. Jump groups. I never had like a. A clique that I really felt that I fit in. But. The other thing, going back to your original question, where do I think that came from? I do know this. So. When my parents would fight. You know, dad, mom. I would, and I remember doing this again. I mean, no older than starting at five, I would get in the middle of them. And I would listen to them.

• 41:07Speaker 05

  And then I would listen to what my dad said, or what my mom said. And then I would try and logically. Explain, no, no, dad, what what mom is really saying is.

• 41:21Speaker 05

  So I was like getting in the middle, trying to like translate like a therapist.

• 41:25Shawn Ryan?

  Wow, you were doing that at five years old.

• 41:27Speaker 05

  Really, really young. Yeah.

• 41:30Speaker 05

  And I did it. I should.

• 41:35Speaker 05

  I mean, I probably until.

• 41:40Speaker 05

  In high school, probably I stopped caring because I could leave the house. Um, but definitely for at least, you know, eight years, something like that. Uh, but what I got from that is it, it, you know, gave me the ability to, um.

• 42:00Speaker 05

  I had to listen to what there was, sorry. I had to hear what they were saying.

• 42:07Speaker 05

  But I had to listen for what they were really saying.

• 42:11Speaker 05

  And I say this all the time, like, you may know something. But if you can't explain it, you don't really know it. You know? And so I had to really kind of pick the logic. Pieces out to then explain it to the other parent. Um, and, and that was a. Uh, you know? I mean, I, I think everything is to a degree, nature and nurture. I don't think anything is. You know, one or the other definitively. Um. But I, that was definitely a, a skill I picked up is, is kind of. Understand, you know, being able to interpret just the, how to explain the logic of something. Um, and not kind of get tied down in the, you know?

• 42:58Speaker 05

  Abstract, uh, nonlinear details, you know, like. When you tell a story, there are important points and the other things are just kind of. Filler, but there's beats that you have to hit to really tell the story or to convey a message. Um, and I, I definitely learned that from that.

• 43:17Shawn Ryan?

  You know? You. I mean, we're skipping way forward, uh, than I would like to at this point, but.

• 43:26Shawn Ryan?

  Growing up like that, you felt a sense of abandonment. You didn't really fit in with anybody. Do you think that? And, and you wound up being this ultra successful? You know, maybe you don't consider yourself that, I don't know, but. But from the outside looking in, you know, you became an army ranger, you went to Delta. You became an actor, became a producer, became a director.

• 43:51Shawn Ryan?

  Pretty substantial businessman. What, do you think that those insecurities as a child is what?

• 43:59Shawn Ryan?

  Drove you to become that successful in life?

• 44:04Speaker 05

  I mean, it's a funny, I.

• 44:08Shawn Ryan?

  Because you couldn't find acceptance as a kid. And so.

• 44:15Shawn Ryan?

  You know.

• 44:16Speaker 05

  I, I mean.

• 44:17Shawn Ryan?

  It drives, drives a lot of people.

• 44:20Speaker 05

  The, the short answer to your question is, I think, to a degree, yes, to a large degree, yes. And.

• 44:28Speaker 05

  You know, I say that because, you know, my thing has always been like.

• 44:35Speaker 05

  You know.

• 44:37Speaker 05

  And I said it then, like.

• 44:40Speaker 05

  You know, doubt me. Like. If I want to accomplish something, like if somebody doubts that I'll do something. That's what I'm going to put all my energy to, and I'm going to do it. And that applies to myself, too, you know, I am by far my own worst. I wouldn't even say critic, I'd say own worst enemy to a degree. I mean. But I'll give you an example. I worked with an absolute freaking movie star. I won't say who it is. But a movie star, like A-list movie star. World on a string.

• 45:19Speaker 05

  And. That person absolutely struggles with massive insecurity.

• 45:27Speaker 05

  By all external things. It's ludicrous. It's like, dude, like, doesn't make any sense, but it makes absolute sense because. That's, that was established in childhood and, you know, I, I have a saying that, you know. And I learned this recently, but it's like. There was things that affected me in childhood that I. You know, later in life, it's like. That I, that, like, okay, someone made me feel that way, so I felt that way. And now I know that's not true about me. I know it's not true. And I've known for a long time, it's not true.

• 46:08Speaker 05

  But then, when I really looked at it, I realized that, okay, I knew it. But I was still doing actions as if I didn't know it. And what it was, what I figured out was consciously, I knew it. But subconsciously, I'd still not accepted it. There's a huge difference between knowing and accepting something. And I can honestly say today, there's still a bunch of things I know. But I'm working on accepting because it's hard.

• 46:43Shawn Ryan?

  Do you have an example of one?

• 46:45Speaker 05

  Uh, I mean, uh, being worth something. I mean, I know I'm worth something.

• 46:57Shawn Ryan?

  But you haven't accepted that.

• 46:58Speaker 05

  I'm trying, like, it's just you're undoing, you know, decades of subconscious programming.

• 47:08Shawn Ryan?

  How long have you known that you're worth something?

• 47:12Speaker 05

  Ooh, that's a good question. I'd say probably recently.

• 47:19Shawn Ryan?

  That's a, that's a recent discovery?

• 47:21Speaker 05

  Probably two years.

• 47:23Shawn Ryan?

  Jesus, that's tough.

• 47:26Speaker 05

  Well, I mean, to be fair, consciously, I didn't know that subconsciously, I didn't think I was worth anything, you know, it was, I had to look at my behaviors and then realize, like, self sabotage, I mean, I knew I was like fucking Olympic gold medal sabotage, self saboteur, like, I can hold, no one can hold a candle, I'll fucking, you want to self sabotage? Watch this, you pull grenade, I'm gonna pull a fucking nuke. And I've self sabotaged a lot of shit. But again, until you really dive in, I didn't really know why I was doing that.

• 48:10Speaker 05

  And the why is because if good things are happening to me, if I get in a good relationship, but I subconsciously fundamentally think that I'm worthless, then I have to sabotage it. Because I don't deserve it.

• 48:28Shawn Ryan?

  Damn, that's some heavy shit.

• 48:30Speaker 05

  And, I mean,

• 48:34Speaker 05

  Over and over and over and over. And the weird thing is, what's strange to me, I was just having this conversation with someone else, I can't remember who, but...

• 48:46Speaker 05

  Oh, actually, I do remember who. But it's crazy to me that, at the same time of having this fundamental lack of self-worth,

• 49:00Speaker 05

  I've... It's pushed me to do things because... So here's a good example. If you have no self-worth,

• 49:14Speaker 05

  fundamentally as a person,

• 49:17Speaker 05

  how do you...

• 49:21Speaker 05

  How do you get worth? If you have none in your head, like, you know, in a room by yourself, if you have no self-worth, how do you get self-worth? Well, sorry, go ahead. I mean, simple. I mean, there's many ways. Get money.

• 49:41Speaker 05

  Now, everyone sees the money and they go, oh,

• 49:46Speaker 05

  that worth translates to you. Get fame.

• 49:52Speaker 05

  That's external,

• 49:56Speaker 05

  you know, worthiness, you know, that you're building up external value to where people can look at the things that you have and go, oh, they must be awesome. A girlfriend. I mean, I will fully admit, fully admit, that I would choose relationships that were not good for me because the girl was super attractive. And now, knowing what I know, that attractiveness was a trophy to give me self-worth in other people's eyes.

• 50:31Shawn Ryan?

  What led you to find this discovery? I mean, how did you?

• 50:35Speaker 05

  That one specifically?

• 50:37Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 50:37Speaker 05

  A lot of failed relationships.

• 50:39Shawn Ryan?

  Well, not that specifically. And what gave you the epiphany that you know that you're worth something now? I think a lot of people struggle with this, myself included.

• 50:54Shawn Ryan?

  And none of the other shit that you're talking about, the money, the fame, and none of the, the, the, the, the trophies, the cars, the house, all that, none of that shit fucking works. That's why when you're talking about A-list actors and actresses, it doesn't matter what the fuck you have. If you don't internally know that you're worth something, then, then you always have that fucking feeling of worthlessness.

• 51:23Speaker 05

  Absolutely, and, and, and, and, and there's all, there's an example, because everyone knows this person. There's an example, the, the opposite of what you just said, which is that person everyone's met in their life, who is level 10 comp, uh, confident, for no fucking reasoning at all.

• 51:44Speaker 05

  Everyone knows that person. And you're like, but, but, uh, you have no job, you know, you're like thinking of like, wow, what's it based on? You know, like, you have nothing, yet, you know, their confidence is sky high. He can talk anyone into anything. And like, everyone knows through, in their lifetime, at some point, that person that you're just like, what's, what's your confidence based on, you know? Um, and now I know. Self-worth, that's it. Um, for me, it, it, I, I mean, quite honestly, the, the, and again, I mean, not to, but the first thing was I had to obviously realize that I didn't have self-worth.

• 52:28Speaker 05

  You know, I, you can't fix a problem, obviously, that you don't know is there. And it, it took a long time before I realized what the actual problem is. And I, I would personally, I feel like, especially with, um,

• 52:45Speaker 05

  Veterans especially, I think, I think so many of the things that that are talked about and all these things, you know, PTSD, all this stuff, personally, my feeling, I feel like a lot of it's symptoms.

• 53:03Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 53:05Speaker 05

  And I think the diseases were almost all formed in childhood.

• 53:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:10Speaker 05

  Like self-confidence, I think is, I think self-confidence or self-worth is a massive issue, and again, make a statement, for most veterans that I've come into contact with. But it's not, you know, you don't go to a psych and they go, so let's talk about your self-worth issue, you know, it's, you know.

• 53:36Speaker 00

  What happened in combat that made you sad?

• 53:39Speaker 05

  You know, they start talking about fucking stupid shit that, I mean, it's not stupid, but you know what I mean, it's, you're.

• 53:47Speaker 00

  It's not the root.

• 53:48Speaker 05

  It's not the root, you know, it's not the root, and the root is, you know, I didn't go to college, like, I have no formal education, I don't know how I graduated high school, to be honest with you, I hate school, I just, I can't do it, but I can see what's self-evident. And again, going back to the parents, that, that, all right, you know, two plus two plus two equals, you know, it's, you meet enough people that have the same problem and you start to put together patterns.

• 54:28Speaker 05

  But once I figured out that self-worth was was a major issue for me, then I was like, all right, well, you know, how do I go about fixing it? And the short answer is, it's really just about, and again, it's a very, I mean, there's probably a thousand books made on this subject, but it's really just about reprogramming your subconscious.

• 54:55Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 54:56Speaker 05

  And the reason I say that is because, how did you, how did it get programmed in the first place?

• 55:05Speaker 05

  You know, probably by words or actions, but but you know what I mean? It's not like wasn't more than just words or actions. So I think because of that, it's relatively logical to say that it can be reprogrammed from words and actions.

• 55:24Shawn Ryan?

  So is that what you did? You reprogrammed? Or did you there was was there something that?

• 55:28Speaker 05

  No, I'm still I'm still reprogramming. It's and and actually, that's a critical point.

• 55:35Speaker 05

  At what years does that develop blah, blah, blah? I don't know. How long does it develop over? I don't know. But I can tell you that at this point, knowing what I know, um, I don't think I don't think something like that is a

• 55:58Speaker 05

  I I don't think it's a um, a fix. I I think it's maintenance.

• 56:05Shawn Ryan?

  How many people depend on you? Do you have any idea?

• 56:11Speaker 05

  I don't think anyone, really.

• 56:12Shawn Ryan?

  Nobody?

• 56:13Speaker 05

  Like?

• 56:14Shawn Ryan?

  You're the fucking producer of SEAL Team.

• 56:16Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 56:17Shawn Ryan?

  You're a director of SEAL Team.

• 56:18Speaker 05

  Well, that's work. I mean.

• 56:22Shawn Ryan?

  That's your life. How many people depend on you?

• 56:26Speaker 05

  Uh, I mean, I sometimes, yeah.

• 56:29Shawn Ryan?

  Your business partner, does he depend on you?

• 56:31Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 56:32Shawn Ryan?

  This is one of the things that I came to the realization for that made me realize, holy shit, I am worth something. I got married. My wife depends on me. My son depends on me. My employees, I built a business. My employees depend on me. People that watch this show to get to get help like this segment right here is going to help a lot of people depend on this. And once I realized, holy shit, people actually fucking depend on me for their liveliness, you know? Then I started to realize, maybe I am worth something. If people depend on me for the livelihood, then you're fucking worth something.

• 57:14Speaker 05

  No, I mean, that I've never thought of it that way. It makes total sense and and um, yeah, it it I haven't thought of it that way.

• 57:25Speaker 05

  But like I said, the thoughts and actions is the reprogramming, you know, so. I I I always think I love this movie and I always think of it's, you know, it's a Good Will Hunting. He's like, you know, it's not your fault. Shut up. You know, it's not your fault. Stop bullshit, man. You know, and then he keeps going, he keeps going. It's not your fault. Don't be fucking with me, man, you know, and it like finally breaks him. It's such a good scene because.

• 58:01Speaker 05

  That's all it is. He says the same fucking words over and over and over again. And they fucking mean nothing. Until they start to mean something.

• 58:13Speaker 05

  And all the difference in that is knocking down the walls in his own head. Of his own worth. That's it. That's all that scene's about.

• 58:27Shawn Ryan?

  I think a lot of guys in the military also, I do believe you're correct, a lot of it does come from childhood, but. I think that self-worth, again, going back to dependency. You don't, when you're in the military, especially when you're operating at that high of a level, you know, like you were. You never see the people that are depending on you ever. You see your team, they depend on you, but that's all replaceable.

• 58:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, and it's so easy to see as something else in a military context, you know?

• 59:00Shawn Ryan?

  But then you get out. Or you you keep doing that job for these people that depend on you doing that job, which is three hundred and fifty million Americans. You know, plus all the other people in the world, Europe, you know, that we fight for. And you never see that, you never see. All the people that depend on you, and then when you leave. You never get that appreciation.

• 59:25Shawn Ryan?

  For doing what you did, or it doesn't measure up and I, do you see where I'm going with this?

• 59:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, you know, I mean.

• 59:32Shawn Ryan?

  You come home to a fucking broken VA, nobody gives a shit, you know, yeah, they can say, thank you for your service. Yeah, whatever. You know what I mean? It's great. A lot of people do care, but you don't get the sense of appreciation and all you see is all the negative shit like the VA, like the fucking phony ass nonprofits that are out there saying that they support veterans and then they don't support shit. Maybe they send a veteran to go do a fucking hunt once a year and then, you know, but anyways, I don't want to get into that. And I guess what I'm getting at is you don't, a lot of veterans don't see how many people depended on what they were doing. You know, and it's a whole country that's dependent on it.

• 1:00:16Speaker 05

  I mean, just thinking about what you're saying, I mean, I know for myself, even if, even if somebody said

• 1:00:25Speaker 05

  something, you know, thank you for your service or, you know, when, when my arm was fresh, I mean, dude, it was, I mean, it was obvious, you know, now a lot of people don't notice now, but first couple of years, you know, I'd ask about it daily. Um, and I'd lie, you know, I'd say, uh, well, I, I, which not a lie, you know, I'd say, oh, it's a workplace accident.

• 1:00:50Speaker 05

  Not details, but you know, um, unless I was just in a certain mood, then, uh, we're at a strip club. Then I would say it was a shark bite, you know, surfing off the gold coast of Australia and, uh, it works. Um, and, uh, but you know, people would, or, or thank you for your service or, or any kind of those things.

• 1:01:16Speaker 05

  And my reaction is all, was always.

• 1:01:22Speaker 05

  I felt I I it made me feel very uncomfortable.

• 1:01:29Speaker 05

  Because of those self-worth, you know, you know, issues and, you know, to me, it was I did it for selfish reasons of what I, you know, wanted. And so I never really put it into the the context of, of, you know, people depending on you. It just always made me feel, I guess, bad, quite frankly, is the word I'm looking for. But, um, yeah, no, it's interesting to to spin it that way. And then with the, the, you know, the military overall, like, I mean, again, I I'm gonna say what things that I feel or things that they are for me,

• 1:02:12Speaker 05

  whether that applies to anyone in the audience, um, you know, if it fits, great, if not, great.

• 1:02:19Speaker 05

  But I can say for myself, I think I developed a feeling of.

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  Mr. President, my company informed me of the explosion on our rig on October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me. Tom Cruise is.

• 1:02:39Speaker 02

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• 1:02:45Speaker 03

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You start, you freeze in there, that's what.

• 1:02:49Speaker 02

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• 1:02:53Speaker 03

  I'm not the first then.

• 1:02:54Speaker 02

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a middle without parent.

• 1:02:59Speaker 03

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• 1:03:01Speaker 06

  It's me, the.

• 1:03:02Speaker 03

  Priceline Negotiator.

• 1:03:04Speaker 06

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• 1:03:05Speaker 03

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• 1:03:14Speaker 03

  Seems like you decided.

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• 1:03:20Speaker 03

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• 1:03:22Speaker 06

  Fine. No one deals more deals than.

• 1:03:24Speaker 03

  Priceline.

• 1:03:25Speaker 06

  Please stop.

• 1:03:25Speaker 03

  Priceline.

• 1:03:26Speaker 06

  Touche.

• 1:03:27Speaker 03

  Priceline.

• 1:03:28Speaker 06

  Priceline.

• 1:03:31Speaker 05

  You know, like, I can honestly say, honestly, and I'll, I'll not go into super detail on the story. Oh, fuck it. I'll tell the story.

• 1:03:46Speaker 05

  So there was a, where was I? Baghdad? Yeah, Baghdad, I think.

• 1:03:55Speaker 05

  Anyways, a bunch of dudes got shot, like, I don't know, like thirteen or fourteen dudes. And at the time, I was, I had the camera, so I would go around and take the photos of them. And, I mean, and by the way, just to note it, I mean, these guys were real pieces of shit. All of them suicide bombers, all, every one of them, about to blow themselves up the next, within the next week. But anyways, so one guy was in the kitchen and he had dragged himself from the living room. And I don't know how many times he was shot, but I, I saw him and I,

• 1:04:37Speaker 05

  you know, he was making the, you know, obviously fluid blood in his chest, definitely had chest wounds. And just based on the noises he was making, I was like, you know, he's gonna die like, pretty quickly.

• 1:04:54Speaker 05

  And so I went down to take his picture. I took his picture and I was pretty close, you know, he was laying on the ground.

• 1:05:02Speaker 05

  And then I just, just was like,

• 1:05:06Speaker 05

  I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna watch him. I was probably a foot from his face.

• 1:05:14Speaker 05

  And then he died.

• 1:05:19Speaker 05

  And there was nothing. No motion? Nothing. Still to this day,

• 1:05:28Speaker 05

  I, I, I've never felt bad about it. I like, I didn't care then. And I was kind of like,

• 1:05:38Speaker 05

  Were you expecting to feel something? To be perfectly honest with you, I was hoping that I would feel something. Is that why you want, did it? Is that why you watched him? I didn't know that at the time. In hindsight, I think yes. Didn't know that at the time. But there was just, there was just, there's just nothing. And what I've learned, or is I tell that story, is because I learned something about myself. And that was,

• 1:06:09Speaker 05

  Like I said, I was a sensitive kid. Like, I mean, I was nice. I was too nice, quite, quite frankly. An example would be picking up on girls. Nice doesn't work. And who says it does is a fucking liar. Um, nice doesn't work. Like be nice to girls and they'll like you. No, they won't. Um, all my shithead, you know, friends, you know, were freaking, you know, had girlfriends everywhere and like I treated a girl well and she's like, he's a great friend. I friendzoned the shit out of myself. Again, I was a friendzone Olympic gold medalist, but um,

• 1:06:47Speaker 05

  but you know, I was that kid. I was just a nice, sensitive kid. And a certain point though, I developed this, you know, uh, they, it's a statistic that special operations have like, you know, all the characteristics of like criminals, sociopaths, except for a couple. Well, this is definitely a sociopathic trait, which is once I put you in the, you're a fundamental piece of shit category, once you're there.

• 1:07:23Speaker 05

  I literally, if I can burn your house down, I don't care. Yeah. It just, I don't care.

• 1:07:30Speaker 05

  But I realized later that there is a

• 1:07:37Speaker 05

  uh, a unique circumstance, uh, I'll call it.

• 1:07:42Speaker 05

  Which I, I didn't put together until, I don't know, years later. Um, and that is as a kid,

• 1:07:52Speaker 05

  you know, my childhood, like I was, I, I wasn't super mistreated. I was just left on my own, like raised myself. You know, as my mom says it now, and she calls me, you know, you know, messaging me all the time, well, I'm so sorry. I'm like, mom, I'm over it. You know, it's like cool, but because I was the easy kid to deal with, she just, well, that one's good. And so I just didn't really, I, I think the only thing I learned from my dad was to not be a mechanic or alcoholic. That's about it.

• 1:08:29Speaker 05

  And

• 1:08:32Speaker 05

  So I was just kinda, I wasn't encouraged or discouraged. I was just on my own. And so when I, when I joined, like, when I was a kid, before I joined the military,

• 1:08:49Speaker 05

  I used to have dreams, and again,

• 1:08:54Speaker 05

  I'm assuming this is not normal, but I'd have dreams as a kid of like,

• 1:09:02Speaker 05

  being somewhere and saving people and dying. I'd have that dream all the time.

• 1:09:11Speaker 05

  And I used the word dream because it was a dream, wasn't a nightmare. I wanted that.

• 1:09:24Speaker 05

  You know, later in life, I was like, fuck, I was fucked up. Now I look at it, and again, my, my kind of concept was, you know, now, again, I, I could watch, you know, certain things happen, you know, I mean, there's a lot of bad stuff that happens probably blocks from here, you know? But the one thing that I will go, I, I, I do not tolerate at all, and will drive me crazy, is stuff with kids. Yeah. You fuck with kids, like,

• 1:10:06Speaker 05

  fuck it, I'll fucking burn your house down, like.

• 1:10:10Speaker 05

  And

• 1:10:13Speaker 05

  why? You know, I'm, I think I, in a fucked up sense, I think I joined to try and save versions of myself. Really? I mean, in my head, I think that's, because I always saw it as like, and granted, when I was a kid, I loved like knights, I played Dungeons and Dragons, not shockingly. And I just saw it as like, you know, I wanted to be a knight, you know, which had a code of honor, but who also fought to protect those who couldn't fight for themselves. I mean, I really, I really believed in that. And, um,

• 1:10:56Speaker 05

  And now, knowing what I know, you know, those suicide bombers, I mean, especially at the time in Baghdad, they're blowing up a shitload of Iraqi kids. I didn't give a fuck.

• 1:11:11Speaker 05

  Want to blow up your own kid? I don't care, you know, you know, American Iraqi kids are kids like.

• 1:11:19Speaker 05

  You're gonna go blow up kids like. I'm not even gonna blink an eye when you die. I don't give a single, not even a, not even a hint of, oh, in a universal sense of human beings, that's sad. No, don't care. Yeah. You know, and, and the way I also saw it is, and again, hey, is this justification? I'm sure it is. Nah, actually, I don't think it is. I think that,

• 1:11:46Speaker 05

  I don't think sociopaths need justification.

• 1:11:50Speaker 05

  And I'm not a sociopath, which is actually another funny story, because I was talking to my, my, uh, my therapist one day. And I was like, I was watching a lot of murder porn, which if you've never seen the murder porn episode of South Park, that's gonna sound really weird.

• 1:12:12Speaker 05

  But watch the murder porn episode of South Park and it'll be less weird. But basically murder porn, they make a joke about all the, you know, serial killer documentaries and every murder porn, because people like watching it so much, you know, like me. And, um, I had just watched probably too many, you know, and I like was identifying with certain traits. I called my, my therapist, I'm like, I think I'm a sociopath. She goes, Tyler, the fact that you're worried that you're a sociopath

• 1:12:43Speaker 05

  means you're not a sociopath.

• 1:12:46Speaker 05

  And I was like, I was like,

• 1:12:49Speaker 05

  that's fair. I'm like, okay, good, you got me. All right. Sorry, talk to you later. But it's, uh, it's one of those things where, you know,

• 1:13:03Speaker 05

  I, I, I definitely just think.

• 1:13:08Speaker 05

  Uh, the way I saw it is.

• 1:13:11Speaker 05

  I don't care why you're doing that. Like if you wanna blow up kids, I don't care what your cause is, uh, it doesn't matter. You're.

• 1:13:21Speaker 05

  I don't care if right, wrong, none of that shit matters to me. The fact is, the way I view you is you're malfunctioning robot and you just need to go away.

• 1:13:34Speaker 05

  You're not fixable and some people are just malfunctioning robots.

• 1:13:40Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:40Speaker 05

  You know, um, and but yeah, I definitely think.

• 1:13:49Speaker 05

  As a kid, um, I just developed the feeling of like.

• 1:13:55Speaker 05

  Still this day, like dude, if I see a kid even.

• 1:14:01Speaker 05

  Alone, uh, fucks me up. Like, that'll make me really sad. To the point sad, quite, quite honestly, I, I, I kinda have to avoid certain things because it's everywhere. And I'll just get trapped in that negative mindset.

• 1:14:15Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:16Speaker 05

  Um, but like, dude, I mean, I was. I was alone all the time. Now, what did I get out of it? Definitely a prolific imagination. I mean, I have a great imagination, which I didn't. I didn't know. That.

• 1:14:38Speaker 05

  I didn't know my imagination was unique, um, until again, like maybe three years ago. Um, like, you know, creating story, just making shit, you know, like, I didn't know that not everyone can do that at, at, you know, the same. Like on the spot.

• 1:14:55Shawn Ryan?

  Lot of self-discovery too, three years ago, huh?

• 1:14:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, I, you know. I went to an inpatient, uh, therapy place for sixty days, Warrior's Heart. Um, and I mean, it was. You know, uh, well, I'll say this.

• 1:15:19Speaker 05

  You are never, in my opinion, going to therapy once a week is like paying the minimum on your credit cards. You're never going to get out of debt because you're just paying the interest. If you talk to a therapist every week, you're going to talk about the shit that happened that week. You need to go deep and you need to commit an amount of time and go all the way back to the beginning. And figure it out it forward. And that's what I did. Sixty days doing nothing but, I mean, I'm gonna, I don't mean literal therapy as in like, with, you know, just talking, but I mean, therapy as in all day long, just working on yourself.

• 1:16:05Speaker 05

  You know, classes, I mean, there's, there's a bunch of stuff, but um. Yeah, I mean, it, it changed my life. No, no question. No question.

• 1:16:14Shawn Ryan?

  You're the second person I know that's gone through that.

• 1:16:16Speaker 05

  What's that?

• 1:16:17Shawn Ryan?

  You're the second person I know that's gone through that program. I've heard really good things about it.

• 1:16:21Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's great. That being said, you know, it's, it's like anything. You, you get out of it what you put into it, you know?

• 1:16:30Speaker 05

  You really have to.

• 1:16:34Speaker 05

  You know, you have to.

• 1:16:40Speaker 05

  I would say most progress, again, make a blatant statement, but.

• 1:16:47Speaker 05

  M- most progress. In, in yourself as a person is dependent on. Both the destruction of your ego.

• 1:17:01Speaker 05

  But at the same time. Um, well, I guess it's also part of destructing your ego, but is accepting responsibility for everything. Like I'm responsible for everything that's ever happened to me, everything. Have to be. Cause if I'm not responsible for every negative thing that's ever happened to me. Then I can't be responsible for every positive thing that's ever happened to me either. And if I'm not responsible and somebody else is responsible. Negative or positive, well, negative specifically.

• 1:17:35Speaker 05

  Then it's on them. They have the power to fix it. I don't.

• 1:17:41Shawn Ryan?

  So do you, let's dissect this a little bit. So when a negative thing happens to you, do you dissect it enough to find your mistake?

• 1:17:51Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 1:17:51Shawn Ryan?

  Every single time?

• 1:17:53Speaker 05

  Well, yes, but I'll just change one word. It's not always a mistake. It's a mistake in hindsight. Doesn't mean it was a mistake at the time.

• 1:18:03Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:18:05Speaker 05

  You know, and that's where responsibility comes in.

• 1:18:08Shawn Ryan?

  So you go back on a chain of events and find, find the link, whether it's a good link, whether it's a bad link, this is, this is what triggered this reaction to happen or this action?

• 1:18:20Speaker 05

  Let's say I went out at 11:00 PM here in Nashville. Let's say I left my hotel, I have two in the morning, whatever. I left the hotel at two in the morning because I was hungry and walked down the street and somebody robbed me. Now, most people would say you were 100% victim of robbery.

• 1:18:42Speaker 05

  And they're not wrong. The problem is that if I'm 100% victim, I'll never be able to fix that because it's on the robber to fix them, fix me. And I don't know who they are. I never see them again. You know what I mean? So, and, and again, I've been, I've said this before and people are like, ah, you're victim blaming. And I'm like, you don't understand what I'm talking about. So my responsibility is, anyhow, I'm not saying it was wrong, but my responsibility is,

• 1:19:20Speaker 05

  I decided to go out at that time and do that. That was my choice. Now, would it make a difference if it was two in the afternoon? No.

• 1:19:34Speaker 05

  Because neither are wrong. Just because I go out at two in the morning, yeah, maybe it's more likely you're gonna get robbed, but we live in a free system like that shouldn't mean anything. I'm not more or less responsible because it happened at 2:00 PM or 2:00 AM. The simple fact is, I chose to go out. I chose to walk that route. And then I go, hmm, it happened because I put myself there at that time. And then you go, alright.

• 1:20:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, shit happens. You don't control the world.

• 1:20:16Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:16Speaker 05

  And then you just kinda go, eh, alright. Because you have taken the responsibility for it, and that's empowering. If I go, no, no, no, I'm a victim, man. I'm a victim. You'll always be a victim.

• 1:20:32Shawn Ryan?

  I'm totally with you, and I'm super excited that we're having this conversation because I do the exact same thing. I phrase it differently, maybe, but when I wind up in a shitty situation or something that I'm not happy about, I don't sit there and initially, I do. Initially, I get pissed off.

• 1:20:55Speaker 05

  Who doesn't?

• 1:20:55Shawn Ryan?

  And I'm like, I got fucked over.

• 1:20:57Speaker 05

  It's how we're designed, I believe, yeah.

• 1:20:59Shawn Ryan?

  But then, I, I, I'm constantly trying to learn from, from those positions. Maybe you're right. Maybe they're not mistakes. Maybe they are mistakes. But I always, I always wanna know, okay, how did I wind up in this position? Or how did I wind up in this position again and again and again? And so, you know, I'm, I'm constantly dissecting how I'm in this position. How did I wind up here, good or bad, you know? And, um, and you're right, it is very empowering, and you learn a lot from, from looking inward and, and, and you learn so much from looking inward. And when you quit blaming everybody and, and you go, alright,

• 1:21:45Shawn Ryan?

  how the fuck did I wind up in this position? And you start retracing steps and dissecting every little move that you made, and then you find it. If I wouldn't have done this.

• 1:21:57Shawn Ryan?

  I wouldn't be in the position I'm at right now. I'm never gonna fucking do that again.

• 1:22:03Speaker 05

  And this doesn't work with the robbery analogy, but like, if you never look through and do that self-awareness, if you never do that, you're never gonna change the behavior. Because you're not seeing it. You're blaming everyone else. And I'll give you a perfect thing that I just realized. So my current girlfriend basically

• 1:22:28Speaker 05

  had a conversation with me and it was not negative at all. It was actually shockingly, she's a unicorn, but

• 1:22:39Speaker 05

  she told me some things and it just,

• 1:22:44Speaker 05

  it just made me think. Like the next day I thought about it all day and here's the conclusion. I mean, through a whole, maybe it was a couple of days, but it was like a whole process of self-awareness. And then I came to a conclusion that blew my mind. So I have a girlfriend now, but my last two girlfriends both cheated on me.

• 1:23:06Speaker 05

  So they both cheated on me.

• 1:23:10Speaker 05

  One left me for the person that they cheated on with. And then the other tried and it didn't work out because she was still seeing me anyways.

• 1:23:21Speaker 05

  But that, that, that messed me up. Well, why did it mess me up?

• 1:23:26Speaker 05

  Simple. I'll tell you exactly why it messed me up. And I mean, really messed me up. Because it reinforced my childhood belief that I wasn't worth anything.

• 1:23:39Speaker 05

  Also reinforced childhood belief that they, you know, the other kids didn't want to hang out with me. They chose other people to go on to the water slides. So I'm like this victim for, I hated, hated my ex for seven years. Hated her. Because she cheated on me and then, you know, she loved this dude. Hated her. And.

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• 1:24:40Speaker 05

  It didn't go away. I had nightmares about it.

• 1:24:44Speaker 05

  Dude, and I actually, I said this, I've said it before and it kind of started my therapy stuff with it. When I was at Warrior's Heart, I was like, look, getting blown up, all the military shit, don't care. I'm like, my girlfriend cheating on me? That broke my brain.

• 1:25:03Speaker 05

  Now I know why. It's because none of the stuff that happened, you know, this happening to me had nothing to, it didn't tie into a negative core belief of me as a kid.

• 1:25:15Speaker 05

  Girls cheating on me, did. So that's what messed up my brain. Interesting. So, years. I am having nightmares. Seven years, I'm having nightmares about my ex. For seven years? Yes, and that, yeah, which, I mean, look, two, three years into it, I'm like, okay. You know, we were together for almost 10 years. So, you know, a couple, two, three years, I was like, all right, this is normal, it'll go away. Seven years, and I was with somebody else at this time, and still, it hadn't gone away. And I'm like, what the fuck? Like, you know, this is not normal.

• 1:25:58Speaker 05

  So then I did some therapy stuff and it's just, still, nothing worked.

• 1:26:04Speaker 05

  And finally, I mean, this is only, I don't know, six months, seven, eight months ago.

• 1:26:12Speaker 05

  I was just like, actually, what happened was that new relationship I had, again, she cheated, left. So then I was single. Obviously, I'm not gonna contact my ex, you know, when I was with the other girl, but I was, so then I was single and I was just like, you know what? That kind of, as I said to you earlier about something unrelated, I've tried everything.

• 1:26:40Speaker 05

  Uh, well, I haven't tried, I've never done any like the ayahuasca stuff. I haven't done that. But other than that, I tried pretty much everything. And I'm like, nothing's worked. So

• 1:26:51Speaker 05

  I'm gonna try what I haven't tried. So I Instagrammed her and my Instagram was,

• 1:26:58Speaker 05

  in hindsight, pretty harsh, but like I said, I hated her. My Instagram was like, hey, I no longer hate you. That was like, and shockingly, she replied to it. But, uh, you know, we talked a little bit and then we ended up having dinner.

• 1:27:14Speaker 05

  And it's, it was, I mean, it was, it was crazy. It was absolutely crazy because after that dinner, like, not even a, I mean, before the dinner, I obviously had changed my feelings towards her, but after the dinner, like, I consider, like, we're friends now. Where I'm going with all this, I promise there's a point. It take a while to get there, but, um, you can edit, right?

• 1:27:44Speaker 05

  So, so the whole thing is,

• 1:27:49Speaker 05

  again, my current girlfriend kind of said some things to me that got me thinking. Now I happened to talk to my ex, I don't know, eight months ago, whatever it is.

• 1:28:02Speaker 05

  But I was still upset about the last girlfriend, not the one I've been talking about, but the last girlfriend that cheated on me. And I was, um, I was really mad at her. Like, I was doing the same victim. I was pissed at her for cheating on me. And what my girlfriend, current girlfriend, basically said was, and this girl's perfect. Perfect. I don't know how, but there's nothing wrong with her. I don't understand those kinds of people. Um, actually, I mean, she did have a rich childhood, but, but she's just, she's a great person. And her speech was essentially, we were together for like five months.

• 1:28:45Speaker 05

  And her speech or her conversation was letting me know that I tell her these things, like how much she means to me and all these different things, which I'm telling you, when I say them, I a hundred percent mean them. I'm not lying or bullshitting or anything. But she was like, but your actions don't match what you're saying. And I was like, hmm, like, wait, what? And she said some things to me. And then I thought about it over a couple of days and I realized.

• 1:29:23Shawn Ryan?

  What, what did she say?

• 1:29:26Speaker 05

  In short, in short, it was, I feel that you're gonna leave me. Because there's always the next best thing. And I listened to her. And she's gorgeous. Off camera, I'll show you a picture. Gorgeous.

• 1:29:53Speaker 05

  But there's always a new gorgeous girl and a younger gorgeous girl. And you know, and I mean, she, she was saying this, not, not me. And

• 1:30:03Speaker 05

  and she said it to me and I was there and I was like, she's like, that's my fear.

• 1:30:09Speaker 05

  So I'm, I'm, I'm telling you this because I don't wanna, I don't wanna be, I'm, I'm letting you know of something I'm concerned about, which I obviously super appreciate. It's actually changed a lot of things, but I was like, she said it. And normally, or you know, you'd be like, oh no, you know, no. She said it and I was like, you know what? You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right because you are so good. You're so good in every way.

• 1:30:44Speaker 05

  That highly more than likely, subconsciously, I don't feel I deserve you.

• 1:30:52Speaker 05

  So I'll either self sabotage to ruin it. Or

• 1:30:58Speaker 05

  in a couple of years, there'll be some girl who's

• 1:31:03Speaker 05

  super pretty or, you know, whatever. And I'll upgrade my trophy.

• 1:31:10Speaker 05

  And again, that sounds ruthless and hardcore, but that's the shitty, you know, hurt child mind that's trying to get external things to give them value. You know, I'll try and get someone else that, see, I was with this girl. She's beautiful and, and this one is now too. So I, I have value, you know?

• 1:31:32Speaker 05

  And I, and I said that to her and

• 1:31:37Speaker 05

  and, and then I was like, but I don't, but I don't wanna be that way. And, and I'm sorry. And, you know, thank you for telling me and I'm gonna work on this. And I am, but where it ties in with the thinking about it. I realized with both those exes, I was with one for 10 years and one with for five years.

• 1:31:59Speaker 05

  I didn't marry either of them.

• 1:32:03Speaker 05

  I was always looking for the next best thing. Not consciously, but subconsciously, I always had one foot out the door.

• 1:32:15Speaker 05

  It's my fault they cheated on me.

• 1:32:18Speaker 05

  Cause I wasn't committed. It's my fault. All the pain that I experienced for seven years. My fault. Not hers. She was just doing what she's protecting herself. Of note, the guy that she left me for, they're still together. Um, and they have kids together, but

• 1:32:40Speaker 05

  it was, it's I was still hurt. I wasn't hurt anymore about the ex because you know, I dinner with her and everything, but, but the other ex, I was still pretty upset about it. Until my girlfriend was like, you know, you're doing this. And then I realized, holy shit. It was my fault that she cheated on me. It was my fault, not hers, my fault. Now that I'm not the victim.

• 1:33:09Speaker 05

  Doesn't bother me. I mean, it bothers me that it's a shitty part of myself that I gotta fix. But far as hurting me, it doesn't hurt me anymore. Makes me want to fix it, but it doesn't hurt.

• 1:33:21Shawn Ryan?

  If you fixed it, I think a lot of guys from our backgrounds.

• 1:33:26Speaker 05

  I think, I think it's super common.

• 1:33:28Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:28Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:33:29Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, that's, that's how the fuck we got in. That's how you got in.

• 1:33:33Speaker 05

  It is.

• 1:33:34Shawn Ryan?

  It's the next best thing.

• 1:33:35Speaker 05

  It is a side effect of a lack of worth, self-worth, fundamental self-worth. You know, and

• 1:33:43Shawn Ryan?

  It's interesting that we just had this conversation about how the military.

• 1:33:47Speaker 05

  The, the Yeah, the similar. Yeah, yeah, yep. And

• 1:33:54Speaker 05

  so, uh, have I fixed it? No. I mean, literally, this is like last week.

• 1:33:59Shawn Ryan?

  That just happened last week?

• 1:34:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:34:01Shawn Ryan?

  Holy shit.

• 1:34:03Speaker 05

  Yep. Um, yeah, it just happened last week and, um, sorry, I mean, I just figured all this stuff out.

• 1:34:14Speaker 05

  But I, I did start, um, I mean, I started realizing, you know, the

• 1:34:24Speaker 05

  Just the

• 1:34:27Speaker 05

  the term is

• 1:34:31Speaker 05

  well, here's the other thing. Why have I not been all in in a relationship?

• 1:34:36Speaker 05

  I can tell you it's very simple.

• 1:34:39Speaker 05

  Because the only the only way to be all in is to expose yourself to emotional pain, potential emotional pain. Yeah, that's too risky. I'll just half ass it for a couple of years. She'll leave me and then I'll be upset at her and I'll be the victim and then I won't be the bad guy. I'll just do that. It's easier.

• 1:35:03Speaker 05

  Again, once you once you start to realize that you're the villain in your story.

• 1:35:11Speaker 05

  Weirdly, it gets easier.

• 1:35:14Speaker 05

  Seems like it'd be the opposite.

• 1:35:16Shawn Ryan?

  That's a uh, it's a damn good way to put it.

• 1:35:21Shawn Ryan?

  Well, hey, let's take a quick break. We'll come back. We'll get into your military career. And we'll get into some more of this kind of stuff.

• 1:35:28Speaker 05

  Let's do it, dude.

• 1:35:29Shawn Ryan?

  Perfect.

• 1:35:33Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you for listening to the Sean Ryan Show. If you haven't already, please take a minute, head over to iTunes and leave the Sean Ryan Show a review. We read every review that comes through and we really appreciate the support. Thank you. Let's get back to the show.

• 1:35:54Shawn Ryan?

  All right, Tyler, this segment, we are going to dive into your military career, but we did just have a good discussion and we cut it off.

• 1:36:01Speaker 05

  I if I'm guilty of one thing, it's always talking off camera about stuff I should be talking about on camera.

• 1:36:08Shawn Ryan?

  I do the same shit.

• 1:36:10Speaker 05

  Really bad at that. Really bad.

• 1:36:12Shawn Ryan?

  But it was an interesting discussion. You're you're basically saying.

• 1:36:18Shawn Ryan?

  I don't know how to say it, but why aren't people more open on camera? You're basically saying it would help a lot of people if people were more open on camera. But instead, people chase that this is what I think people want me to be. And they get themselves into this character mindset, or whatever you want to call it. And I know exactly what you're talking about because when I left contracting for the agency, I started the training thing, like everybody, right? Everybody gets out, they start a training thing. Started a training thing.

• 1:37:03Shawn Ryan?

  And what I noticed is all these trainers at that time period, I knew half these fucking guys.

• 1:37:11Speaker 05

  And you knew that wasn't them?

• 1:37:12Shawn Ryan?

  I know that's not them. And I could see them and I'm like, man, that shit's gotta be exhausting. Like, everybody already thinks you're a fucking tough guy being from the special operations community, you know? People are already scared shitless of you. But you get these guys who are all yoked up, you know? And they play the tough guy part and it's, you just know that's not them. And when I was coming into the training game, I decided very early on, I don't want to have to act like that all the fucking time because that's not me. And that shit would be exhausting having to play that character 24 hours a day, seven

• 1:37:57Shawn Ryan?

  days a week, 365 fucking days a year and tell them, till you die.

• 1:38:03Speaker 05

  Absolutely. I mean, I, I assume, do you know about the documentary that I did?

• 1:38:13Shawn Ryan?

  I do.

• 1:38:13Speaker 05

  Okay. So that was really the first, I think that's the first time I really talked on camera.

• 1:38:27Speaker 05

  So on that, you know, we didn't, I didn't know, I wouldn't let Rick, I didn't know any questions he was gonna ask me. I wouldn't, I didn't know anything. When he turned the camera on, I'd answer the questions right there. We never did a second take, never.

• 1:38:45Speaker 05

  So everything is my first response, you know, right then. If I ever get, if I ever do interviews, I'll be like, no, don't give me the questions. I don't wanna, if I can rehearse it, ask me and I'll give you an answer.

• 1:38:59Speaker 05

  That being said, did kinda screw me over one time, but uh,

• 1:39:04Speaker 05

  actually, I'll tell you the story real quick, cause it's kinda funny. I mean, this is like a newscaster. On the Suddish Hill team, it's uh,

• 1:39:13Speaker 05

  season one, episode two. And they're like, hey, will you do this interview with some guy from whatever news? I'm like, sure. So I sit down, and again, this is a professional newscaster. It's not like a freaking, you know, some kid on YouTube, right? And I sit down and I'm in like a wet suit, cause we're filming, because, so I hear you could kill me with a pencil.

• 1:39:38Speaker 05

  That's his first question.

• 1:39:41Speaker 05

  And I was like,

• 1:39:45Speaker 05

  yeah, like in my head, I'm like, I did not see, like, really? Like, anyone brief this guy? Like, that's what you're leading with? I think my response was technically you can kill somebody with anything, which, You could. It's true. Anyone can kill a person.

• 1:40:04Speaker 05

  But uh, to include water.

• 1:40:08Speaker 05

  But um, the, you know, so on that thing, I just,

• 1:40:15Speaker 05

  just, I'm gonna be me. And, you know, I've just kinda kept the same, you ask me a question, I'm gonna, I'm gonna answer it.

• 1:40:26Speaker 05

  Unfiltered. And the thing I learned is that I used to say this when I used to do speaking stuff, but like, I can't tell, you know, if I'm in a room of a hundred people, I can't tell anyone here how to be happy. Everyone's super different, all have different interests, hobbies, whatever. I can't give you a formula for for being happy. But right now, definitively, I can give everyone here a formula for absolute misery.

• 1:41:01Speaker 05

  Be someone other than who you are.

• 1:41:06Speaker 05

  Absolute misery, no question. And it will, in every situation, eventually,

• 1:41:15Speaker 05

  who you really are, will find its way to the top. And then you'll be happy.

• 1:41:23Shawn Ryan?

  I'm gonna rephrase that a little bit, too, just to

• 1:41:26Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:41:26Shawn Ryan?

  Just for the slow learners like myself out there. Don't be who you think everybody wants you to be. Just fucking be yourself. Quit worrying about what everybody else thinks you should be doing, thinks you should be, thinks what you shouldn't be doing. You need to fucking do what you want to do.

• 1:41:48Speaker 05

  So, yes, and I'll give a couple things that I say, but based on that specific piece, and that is,

• 1:42:00Speaker 05

  why do so many people, I shouldn't say so many people, why in general,

• 1:42:09Speaker 05

  do we take advice, or listen, same thing, to people who aren't where we want to be?

• 1:42:20Speaker 05

  If you listen to them, you will get what they have. You will be where they are. That's how they got there. Not only that, but if you listen to what they want, like, let's just look at society in general. You know, the fundamental will of society is, you know, it's, it's the average, it's most. If you do what society wants you to do, that is a, that is a, uh, oh, military charmers. It's been a while, but I got it.

• 1:43:04Speaker 05

  That is a hardball road to averageness, right there. And yet, we feel this pressure. I mean, I, you know, I felt it for a long time. And, and also on top of that, for a long time, I felt like I needed everyone to like me.

• 1:43:27Shawn Ryan?

  You don't feel that pressure anymore?

• 1:43:30Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:43:31Shawn Ryan?

  Nothing?

• 1:43:32Speaker 05

  No, fuck everyone.

• 1:43:33Shawn Ryan?

  No shit?

• 1:43:34Speaker 05

  Fuck them.

• 1:43:35Shawn Ryan?

  Fucking good for you, man. I still feel it. I don't succumb to it, but I still feel it.

• 1:43:39Speaker 05

  Nope. I now actually feel the opposite. Fucking hate me.

• 1:43:45Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 1:43:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:43:47Shawn Ryan?

  I'll tell you right now, I feel it right now because I know why everybody, what they want to hear from you. They want to hear your combat shit. And I want to give it to them, but I'm enjoying this conversation more than that. I'm just telling you, I feel the pressure, you know, and we're about two hours into this right now, and we haven't even barely touched on any of that. And I'm, I'm cool with it.

• 1:44:15Speaker 05

  I mean, look.

• 1:44:16Shawn Ryan?

  I don't feel the pressure.

• 1:44:18Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:44:19Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, I feel the pressure, but I'm not succumbing to it. We'll get there, and that's fine, but...

• 1:44:23Speaker 05

  I think here's, here's, here's why I say that. And that is, I've done things, and I'm, in air quotations, like, I've done things the right way.

• 1:44:35Speaker 05

  Some people like me and some people hated me.

• 1:44:37Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:44:39Speaker 05

  I did things the wrong way. Some people like me, some people hated me. Doesn't matter what you do, it doesn't matter.

• 1:44:48Speaker 05

  Like Elon Musk. Some people like him, some people hate him, it doesn't matter what he does.

• 1:44:56Speaker 05

  Like, no matter what you do, your friends are gonna love you no matter what? And your enemies are gonna hate you no matter what?

• 1:45:08Speaker 05

  So why try and cater to their desires or whims like? It just, it doesn't mean anything and, and, and people, you know, again, this is a, a great thing for the active duty. Uh, people, it's like, why do, and not to rip on your community, but why do sales write books? Is it because they're unprofessional? No, it's because they got out. They earned their stories. And they monetized them.

• 1:45:46Speaker 05

  Is this wrong?

• 1:45:49Speaker 05

  I don't think so. It's their story. Do whatever you want with your story, you earned it. And it's, it, guys that write books. People that don't like them, hate them more, their friends, still their friends. Doesn't matter. I mean, I'm not saying I agree with everything that's ever been done, but I'm just saying in general.

• 1:46:12Speaker 05

  You know, when you get out too, you, you look at, you, you, you're not in. It's just not the same. And the problem, our fundamental problem is, why do so many guys write books? As an example, why, why so many guys, uh, start training companies? And by so many, I mean, everyone, I did it.

• 1:46:34Shawn Ryan?

  You did it too?

• 1:46:35Speaker 05

  Oh yeah, dude, who didn't?

• 1:46:36Shawn Ryan?

  Why did you do it? Because you think that's what everybody wanted you to do?

• 1:46:40Speaker 05

  No, I actually did it pretty early on. It was, I mean, I was gun, I, I'm playing guns as a kid, you know, I was like, I, I, I love guns and. Uh, at the time, I got, I got kind of burned out training. I still like training CQB because it's more about philosophy than it is like hard tactics. I teach very strange CQB. Cause it's more about concepts and not about.

• 1:47:03Speaker 05

  Techniques, cuz the technique is irrelevant if you know the concept.

• 1:47:09Speaker 05

  But the

• 1:47:13Speaker 05

  yeah, the training thing, it goes back to.

• 1:47:20Speaker 05

  You know. If you were a

• 1:47:24Speaker 05

  you know. Warriors throughout history. Had jobs.

• 1:47:31Speaker 05

  After war.

• 1:47:33Speaker 05

  We don't know. That's true. They don't even want us to be cops. Yeah. So what are we supposed to do?

• 1:47:45Speaker 05

  Die? Go fishing on military retirement?

• 1:47:50Speaker 05

  No, fucking guy writes a book, great, fuck them. Fuck the government.

• 1:47:56Speaker 05

  Fuck the people that are still in. Why? Cuz they're still in. They don't know what it's like to be out. We've been there. We know what it's like to be in. You don't know what it's like to be out. So. If you wanna judge someone, judge them when you're in the same position. You know, until you're there, hold off on it. Yeah. But for me, dude, I like.

• 1:48:22Speaker 05

  I'm gonna be myself. I'll be who I am, which.

• 1:48:28Speaker 05

  I'm not an angel, I'm not a saint. Like, like I said, I am. Shit, if this was a radio show and we had a call in, shit, we could probably get 200 girls to call in and talk about what a piece of shit I am. And they would all be right.

• 1:48:44Speaker 05

  Dudes? I don't think a dude would call in and, you know, like, but for girls, yeah, I've been a piece of shit. No question. And I am absolutely comfortable. Admitting that because it's only understanding and admitting that that's allowed me to change. So on that, though, going back to what we started with is. Once you accept and can just throw out your flaws and it's who you are. And once you're comfortable with who you are and you don't need to be something else.

• 1:49:25Speaker 05

  That's when you'll actually start feeling uncomfortable. Like self, I, I believe that life is just a process. Everyone says that life is about, uh, life is about,

• 1:49:38Speaker 05

  uh, what is it? Building, was it, uh, life is about building, building who you are. There's some saying life is about,

• 1:49:48Speaker 05

  like, you know, building who you are. I disagree.

• 1:49:51Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 1:49:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, I, I think that's absolute horseshit. I don't think it makes any sense at all.

• 1:49:57Shawn Ryan?

  How so?

• 1:49:59Speaker 05

  So,

• 1:50:04Speaker 05

  if life is about building who you are,

• 1:50:09Speaker 05

  I've talked to a lot of people and asked them, like, if you could do anything, what would you do right now? Blah, whatever, whatever it is.

• 1:50:19Speaker 05

  Did you like that as a kid? Yep.

• 1:50:26Speaker 05

  I think we know who we are as children. I mean, there's a lot we don't know as far as the world. But far as who we are, I think the best knowledge of that is us as kids. And then I think walls get put in front of us by society, parents, friends, blah, blah, blah. And it steers us away from who we are.

• 1:50:51Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I would definitely agree with that.

• 1:50:56Shawn Ryan?

  A hundred percent, but don't you think that through life's experiences that also builds who you are?

• 1:51:02Speaker 05

  A- a- absolutely, absolutely. I don't mean that, you know, you don't build more of who you are, but I mean, like, on a fundamental level of like, interest and, you know, your core personality. Dude, that's there from.

• 1:51:20Speaker 05

  Yeah, very early on.

• 1:51:21Shawn Ryan?

  Have you read the five or the Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz by chance? He talks about this. He talks about the indoctrination that starts from the moment you're born into religion and education, your parents, your grandparents, your friends, everybody. Everybody is indoctrinating you into what they think you need to become. Literally from the fucking moment you're born. I'm gonna give you that book. I think I have it right there. I want to give it to you. It's a short read.

• 1:51:52Speaker 05

  I love it. Well, so it's funny you say that because why wasn't I, because I was never indoctrinated.

• 1:52:00Shawn Ryan?

  Everybody's indoctrinated.

• 1:52:02Speaker 05

  Well.

• 1:52:03Shawn Ryan?

  One way or another.

• 1:52:04Speaker 05

  I was, obviously, but not as heavily. And I'll, and I'll tell you why. It's because my parents didn't give a shit what I did.

• 1:52:16Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:16Speaker 05

  They weren't pushing anything on me. You know, you know what I mean? So like, I remember being a kid, listening to shit my parents were saying and being like,

• 1:52:27Speaker 05

  that doesn't make any fucking sense. You know, it's just like, I'm not gonna do that, you know, like religion, they didn't force me to go to church. You know, there's a lot of things that was pushed to college. Fuck, they couldn't afford it. They told me like,

• 1:52:41Speaker 05

  good luck, you know, I'm like, I mean, it didn't matter. I didn't want to go to college anyways, but

• 1:52:48Speaker 05

  you know, there was a lot of those, like I see it with, you know, good parents that are actual, you know, in their kids' lives, but at the same time, they're definitely pushing a an agenda. And yeah, I just, I was lucky. My lack of parental supervision, you know, helped me kind of look at everything and go, eh, that makes more sense for someone to do that.

• 1:53:17Speaker 05

  But yeah, that, that self-actualization, I

• 1:53:22Speaker 05

  I'll say this.

• 1:53:25Speaker 05

  Actually, this is quite frankly, is pretty fucking important.

• 1:53:30Speaker 05

  A lot of times I remember, like, I think of shit that's actually really obscure. But like, major glaring, obvious shit, it won't even cross my mind. So this is an example. I just thought of this now. It's like, ties everything together that we're talking about. So.

• 1:53:48Speaker 05

  Childhood. So, a very nice, sensitive kid.

• 1:53:55Speaker 05

  Why? Well, many reasons. But, my mom. I mean, I never saw my dad. My dad was a fucking. So, this is a true story. When my mom and dad met. My dad was a cowboy who lived on a ranch. And on the weekends, he went into town and pool sharked at a, uh, pool hall. Literally called the Pearly Q. My mom was a waitress.

• 1:54:31Speaker 05

  So that's my dad.

• 1:54:34Speaker 05

  But my mom raised me. So my mom raised me to be pretty much the opposite of my dad.

• 1:54:41Speaker 05

  My dad, kind of an asshole. Well, especially when he drinks. Um, so she raised me to be nice to everyone. Everyone needs to like you. That's how she raised me. And. When I was in the eighth grade.

• 1:54:57Speaker 05

  Like, again, no experience with girls. I hadn't even really kissed a girl in, by the eighth grade.

• 1:55:04Speaker 05

  We moved houses. So the whole group that I grew up with, we moved houses to another school district, another neighborhood. And it was at this time that I was pretty frustrated. I was frustrated that, in my mind, I was a good kid. I was nice, you know, and the girls didn't like me.

• 1:55:30Speaker 05

  I just, I didn't get it, you know? And at the same time, I saw a bunch of my friends, you know, not being serial killers, you know, but just being

• 1:55:45Speaker 05

  guys, you know? And, you know, I can having to choose which girl they're gonna go out with on this night or really at that time, go to the mall on the weekend, you know? Um, but so I,

• 1:56:04Speaker 05

  I was playing, uh, I played a lot of role playing games. Originally it was Dungeons and Dragons and then it was this other role playing game. And I made a character. It was based on the future, but I made a character. And I know this sounds crazy and it is.

• 1:56:23Speaker 05

  And the character is, so think of Fight Club. You know? The character was my Brad Pitt. It was who I wanted to be.

• 1:56:34Speaker 05

  Like if you make up the character for a game, you, you make like a version of yourself, like the video game best version of yourself. So I made up this character and then I don't remember what the definitive point was, but I was switching schools.

• 1:56:53Speaker 05

  And I just started to act like the character.

• 1:56:58Speaker 05

  And that character, I mean, it's not like the role playing game was about picking up girls.

• 1:57:05Speaker 05

  But the character was a veteran. I mean, it was just,

• 1:57:09Speaker 05

  but like I wrote a whole, you know, a whole backstory, all kinds of stuff. And so I just completely changed my personality completely, night and day. And I became, again, I don't want to use the word asshole, but you know, I became,

• 1:57:29Speaker 05

  I became what I saw working.

• 1:57:34Speaker 05

  Which maybe was an asshole, either way.

• 1:57:39Speaker 05

  And it worked.

• 1:57:41Shawn Ryan?

  Hmm, interesting.

• 1:57:43Speaker 05

  And it was a hyper confident.

• 1:57:48Speaker 05

  Was it manufactured confidence? Yeah.

• 1:57:53Speaker 05

  But people can't tell the difference, especially when you've convinced yourself, you know, like, and I played a hyper confident, you know, super outgoing, freaking, you know.

• 1:58:07Speaker 05

  I mean, I'm.

• 1:58:09Speaker 05

  Once I started talking to girls, I realized like, shit, I can, I can, I could sell, you know, I can, I can, I can, I can, you know, I've got game, you know what I mean? I can, I can, you know, do well in a conversation and,

• 1:58:28Speaker 05

  so that, you know, I started that in like the, really the ninth grade and I just became a completely different person. And then I suddenly had, you know, you know, freaking four different girls I was seeing at one time.

• 1:58:47Speaker 05

  And, and I'm promising again, I'm going somewhere with this, but

• 1:58:53Speaker 05

  that version of myself or that

• 1:58:58Speaker 05

  created character. Then I was in the military, you know, got out of high school, joined.

• 1:59:08Speaker 05

  Went to Ranger Stadium, went to the unit.

• 1:59:13Speaker 05

  Again, dude, I was.

• 1:59:16Speaker 05

  I mean, dude, if we went on a training trip, I, I manhoored for a long time. Again, full disclosure.

• 1:59:25Speaker 05

  Oh, which, why though? Why was I such man whore?

• 1:59:29Speaker 05

  Well, simple, because I'm trying to. That girl, like, that, that's, that's value. It's like, oh, I can get her. So that means, like, if she thinks that I'm good enough for her, then that means I'm good. But because it's never an internal feeling, it's never enough, because nothing, like, you do it and then it happens and then it doesn't mean anything. No.

• 1:59:58Speaker 05

  So then, like, I had this girlfriend, um, which is a whole crazy story how we met. And then I got hurt. The reason going through that whole freaking thing is.

• 2:00:15Speaker 05

  When I got hurt and I got out of the hospital, I was no longer an operator.

• 2:00:23Speaker 05

  I lost everything. I lost, you know, dude, I lost, I forget how many pounds, but I look like a, I, I was, I probably lost fifty pounds in the hospital. I couldn't move, you know, for a while, or get up, I should say. And, um.

• 2:00:40Speaker 05

  What broke me.

• 2:00:43Speaker 05

  I wasn't like the physical pain, any of that. It was, I was out of the hospital, maybe a year post-injury. I don't know.

• 2:00:54Speaker 05

  And this took me a long time to figure out, but.

• 2:00:58Speaker 05

  That fake, that character, that confident character I'd created.

• 2:01:06Speaker 05

  You know, and all the things I got in the military just kept feeding that confidence and that, that persona. And then when I lost it and I lost my physical.

• 2:01:19Speaker 05

  Ability, you know, I lost my shape, all those things.

• 2:01:24Speaker 05

  It it basically cracked that false identity that I had made.

• 2:01:32Speaker 05

  It's built on quicksand.

• 2:01:35Speaker 05

  Well, all right. It was built on cement, but under the cement was sand.

• 2:01:42Speaker 05

  And over time, you know, it got eroded and and it cracked it and it split and the whole fucking thing came down. So my real, what messed me up about this, what what this caused. Ah, yeah, physical pain, whatever. What it really caused that hurt was an identity crisis. Because I realized that I didn't know who I was. I had no idea.

• 2:02:09Speaker 05

  Because I had made that up when I was 12. And I'd been living that.

• 2:02:14Shawn Ryan?

  Let's rewind because I want to get to that.

• 2:02:16Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:02:17Shawn Ryan?

  Let's rewind. Let's get into your military career.

• 2:02:20Speaker 05

  All right.

• 2:02:21Shawn Ryan?

  So join the military. Were you 18?

• 2:02:25Speaker 05

  Uh, no, I was like 19.

• 2:02:26Shawn Ryan?

  19?

• 2:02:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, we did. Well, I I went to LA and tried to. The two things I wanted to do as a kid. Well, I already told you I love film and I loved, uh, um, uh, the military.

• 2:02:39Shawn Ryan?

  So you tried acting first?

• 2:02:41Speaker 05

  Uh, no, no, I didn't. I didn't. I actually didn't know at the time what I wanted to do in Hollywood. I just wanted to work. So, yeah, I moved to LA and tried to. Yeah, it didn't work out.

• 2:02:55Speaker 05

  I mean, I have some funny stories just of how unaware I was, you know, of the process. But, I mean, it is what it is. But, um, yeah, so then I joined from, actually, I literally joined from the Hollywood. There was an army recruiter in Hollywood across from, uh,

• 2:03:16Speaker 05

  Capitol Records, the Capitol Records building. It's not there now, but that's where I joined from, literally Hollywood. So, Jesus, the amount of times I heard fucking Hollywood at Meps. Because it said it Hollywood, you know? In hindsight, I would have picked a different office to join out of. It was a bad idea.

• 2:03:39Shawn Ryan?

  Well, what was the point then? That you decided, alright, this film thing is not gonna work?

• 2:03:45Speaker 05

  Uh, I, well, I realized. It wa- it wasn't that I knew it wasn't gonna work. It was that I realized it was gonna take serious time. And I also somehow at that time realized that the military, like, you have to do one when you're young. You know, um, so I was just like, you know what? I, I, I just gotta get this out of my system, for, for lack of a better term. And, uh, I went into the recruiter and, uh, so I wanted to be a Green Beret, because, literally because of Rambo, or First Blood. Well, Rambo, First Blood. Um, and so I went in, I'm like, I wanna be a Green Beret. And they're like, yeah, I can't do that.

• 2:04:30Speaker 05

  Cause they didn't have the SF baby program then, uh, 18x rate. And, uh, so it's alright, well, like, what's, you know, what's the hardest thing I could do? Like, a Ranger, and I had, literally had a Ranger poster, I had S, uh, all the Army units. A lot of people, I get this all the time, people are like, you know, why don't you become a SIL? And I tell them the honest answer, and no one believes me.

• 2:04:55Shawn Ryan?

  What is it?

• 2:04:58Speaker 05

  I do not float.

• 2:05:02Shawn Ryan?

  And That's a damn good reason.

• 2:05:04Speaker 05

  Everyone says, no, no, everyone floats. And I try and say, no, they don't. That is a misconception. I will go to the bottom of the pool, well, not all the way to the bottom. Uh, actually, let me back up. I can float. I just won't be able to breathe. I won't sink to the bottom of the ocean, but my head will be underwater. Kind of a big deal.

• 2:05:28Shawn Ryan?

  Just a tad.

• 2:05:29Speaker 05

  I, dude, I try to tell people, they're like, everyone floats. I'm like, I, I, you gotta put the air in your, I'm like, I know how to fucking do it. Like, I'm telling, and actually, as a kid, when I was learning to swim, like, they kept telling me I was doing it wrong, and I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, my gut, my lungs are full and I'm going under. I've always been like that. Um, uh, and I'm sure you know that's a thing, but anyways. Um, yeah, never an option.

• 2:05:59Speaker 05

  Never even a possibility. I was like, cause for me, the water dude, it was just like the amount of energy I'd have to expend just to be in the water. Like, oh dude, I hate the water. Um, well, actually now going scuba diving. If I can control my buoyancy and breathe underwater, awesome. I love, I love scuba diving. Yeah. Um, but anyways, yeah, but dude, if I had a dollar for every time people ask me about buds. Even though I a million times said I was never a seal. People were still like, how was buds? Like I, I don't know.

• 2:06:34Shawn Ryan?

  Maybe that's because you produced the show Seal Team.

• 2:06:37Speaker 05

  But, but.

• 2:06:37Shawn Ryan?

  Just a hunch.

• 2:06:38Speaker 05

  Even that I still say like, I still, I put it out there at a lot of places, but, um.

• 2:06:44Speaker 05

  So then, yeah, they're like, uh, Ranger contract. And I was just like, done. And I like joined. I think that day or the next day.

• 2:06:54Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, that fast.

• 2:06:55Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, they were super excited in Hollywood that I could just pass Gazbap. That was like. That like blew their minds that I passed. They were like, whoa, we got a guy. Right? Yeah, it was great. Or I should say that I wanted to join and I passed on like the first try, which I don't know how I got the score I did. Cause I like.

• 2:07:18Speaker 05

  I never paid attention in school, so got lucky. But, um. Yeah, I joined and, and I can honestly say like.

• 2:07:29Speaker 05

  Man. Like basic training, freaking everything like. I had fun. Like I liked it. Like it wasn't. And it wasn't, certain things were, you know. Whatever, but I, I liked it. Like I truly enjoyed every, there wasn't anything.

• 2:07:57Speaker 05

  Other than admin bullshit, like if it was like, other than admin stuff I hated, but if it was like, you know, a no course or anything like I loved everything about that experience. I remember being at MEPS or is it MEPS? No, no, no, no, no. Uh, 30th AG, which is like before you go to basic training, you're at like this, you know, like the processing, like you fly from your city and then you go and you're, you're like processing before you get assigned to you. Yeah. I was there and I was like, I mean, look, I'll be perfectly honest. I took that shit way too seriously. You know what I mean? Like way too seriously. Like I was like, I mean, I'd get annoyed if people were talking in form. Yeah.

• 2:08:43Speaker 05

  In my head, I'm like, I will fucking stand here at parade rest for eight hours. Fuck you. And I won't say a word. Like to me, that was a professional soldier, you know? Now I kind of look back and, you know, the guys that were smoking and joking before the instructors came out. Yeah, that was probably the right move, you know?

• 2:09:04Speaker 05

  But uh, yeah, I mean, I,

• 2:09:08Speaker 05

  I had fun, you know?

• 2:09:09Shawn Ryan?

  What year did you go in?

• 2:09:11Speaker 05

  Uh, 97 when I joined.

• 2:09:13Shawn Ryan?

  Was anything going on then?

• 2:09:15Speaker 05

  No.

• 2:09:15Shawn Ryan?

  Nothing?

• 2:09:16Speaker 05

  No. No, the only, um, I mean, it obviously wasn't going on, but what was fresh was Somalia. So, you know, Somalia was like, you know, the military always fights the last war. So Somalia was, and being in range battalion, you know, Somalia was like a reference to almost every training we did, you know?

• 2:09:41Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. Would, so, where did you go from there? Where'd you go from training?

• 2:09:47Speaker 05

  Uh, so I did the, the, you know, it was, it's a different process now, but process then was basic training, airborne school, RIP, got assigned to range battalion. My first job, like I'm thinking sawgunners, you know, something sexy.

• 2:10:06Speaker 05

  Nah, I was an assistant machine gunner.

• 2:10:10Speaker 05

  At the time, we didn't even carry a rifle. Oh, man. I had a fucking M nine and an AG bag that weighed with ammo like fucking, I remember it weighed a hundred and ten pounds one time. Seven, uh, a hundred rounds of seven, six, two by fifty one is seven point seven pounds. And I still remember that. Wow. Ironically, so is a two forty barrel is seven point seven pounds. Really? Yeah, ironically, but yeah, I had the tripod, teeny, all steel, right? Um, and every hundred rounds, seven point seven pounds. Thousand rounds in a machine gun is not a lot. That's seventy seven point seven pounds. Damn.

• 2:10:53Speaker 05

  Uh, yeah, and I had two spare barrels. So, yeah, my first year in Ranger Battalion was just basically a a mule, you know, which again, at the time, you know, I looked at like the guys doing the cool shit, you know, and I'm fucking carrying a hundred pounds of bullshit and a pistol, you know? Um, but in hindsight, it really set me up for success later. Cause, you know, a hundred and ten pound ruck. All right. I mean, it sucks. Yeah. But, you know, it's it's more, rucking specifically is way more mental than it is physical.

• 2:11:38Speaker 05

  You know, it just feels like you're a tin can getting crushed, but body can do much more than the mind

• 2:11:48Speaker 05

  wants to. Um, so I learned a lot from, from that job. And then I went to Ranger School, I think after a year ish, uh, which was fast at the time.

• 2:12:00Speaker 05

  Graduated Ranger School, came back. Uh, I don't know how long I was in, actually I came back and I was still on a gun team. I actually, I just remembered. So I came back as a TAB spec four in Ranger Battalion, which

• 2:12:18Speaker 05

  you know, when you go to Ranger School and come back and get your TAB, you're, you're considered, you're not a sergeant, but you're, you're like a leader ish, you know, to privates. So nine point nine times out of ten in a gun squad, in a, uh, yeah, weapon squad. Nine point nine times out of ten, the, the gunner is the TAB one.

• 2:12:39Speaker 05

  I just happened to come back to an all tabbed weapon squad. So now I've got my tab. Yay, I'm awesome. And I'm still a fucking assistant gunner carrying the fucking AG bag. Damn. My entire time in weapon squad, I was never a gunner. Are you serious? I swear to you. I it's just, it's hilarious to me now. Like, I never was a gunner. Actually, the one training thing that I was gonna be a gunner for, I was all excited just to fuck, you know, and not, well, actually it was live rounds, but

• 2:13:18Speaker 05

  this fucking turd we had, it's the only time I've ever seen or even heard of it happening, but he went AWOL. And so because he left, I had to be the AG for the other gunner. I'll say, that son of a bitch. Oh, my gosh. So funny. And on that note of that guy, so it was me and my, uh, me and my buddy were like his leaders. All the other privates in the entire platoon were getting their shit handed to them daily, daily. Me and this guy, he was in the British military in like the eighties, like old school dude. Me and him were just like, look, man, we're just gonna treat him.

• 2:14:02Speaker 05

  You know, we're not gonna hate, you know, why I'll, we'll smoke the shit out of him at PT in the morning, you know, and we'll, we'll push him, but we won't haze him.

• 2:14:12Speaker 05

  And that fucker goes AWOL. He had it a thousand times easier than any other private there. Anyways, and so I ended up being the AG again. Um, and then the sniper section in the battalion had, uh, like a little selection tryouts and, um, I was like, hell yeah, I wanna do that. So I went and tried out for that and, uh, me and my, another buddy of mine from the same platoon went over there. And then I was there for

• 2:14:49Speaker 05

  The rest of my time in Ranger Battalion.

• 2:14:51Shawn Ryan?

  How long were you at Ranger Battalion?

• 2:14:52Speaker 05

  Uh, let's see, I was uh, four, like four and a half years, something like that. So I think I was there for maybe three and a half snipers.

• 2:15:01Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, three and a half years as a sniper, huh?

• 2:15:03Speaker 05

  Three or three and a half, I have to do the math.

• 2:15:05Shawn Ryan?

  Did you, did you deploy with Ranger Battalion?

• 2:15:07Speaker 05

  Yep, yeah, Afghanistan.

• 2:15:09Shawn Ryan?

  What year?

• 2:15:11Speaker 05

  Uh, oh two.

• 2:15:12Shawn Ryan?

  Oh two?

• 2:15:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, cuz I was in second, so it went third, did the jump in Kandahar. First did the, uh, well, basically did QRF out of, um, out of Kandahar, uh, which was when Roberts Ridge happened. Um, and then we rotated them out. So we came right after Anaconda and we basically, that was when all the pushes were happening to the outstations. So I went and pushed out with the, uh, oh, funny, interesting tidbit. Um, so I was one of the first people at Skin, which, uh, they renamed all the, you know, that's what it was called cuz that's the town it was in.

• 2:15:55Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:15:56Speaker 05

  Um, uh, and I was a sniper and

• 2:16:03Speaker 05

  the first Blackwater team led by Erik Prince himself lived upstairs above us.

• 2:16:10Shawn Ryan?

  Really?

• 2:16:12Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:16:12Shawn Ryan?

  That's interesting.

• 2:16:13Speaker 05

  Yep. Erik Prince himself was there, it was like a, I don't know, five man team was very small because there was agency people at the, at the FOB, but, um, and actually I met Erik Prince, I don't know, at Shotshoe or whatever, and I brought it up to him and he's like, oh, no shit, I don't, like, I mean, he didn't remember me, but he remembered obviously being there.

• 2:16:32Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:33Speaker 05

  Um, but yeah, but the reason that I, I had more interaction with him is cuz they were all, at that time, this, the, the contract was more sniping. And so they all had like, uh, I forget what they had. Um, but anyways, you know, like, I was given the ammo and stuff cuz I was a sniper as well, so, um. But yeah, then and then while I was in Afghanistan, I so as a sniper, I was were a battalion asset, or at least the way it was structured then battalion asset. So wasn't assigned to any specific platoon or company or anything. So I kind of bounced around or my

• 2:17:16Speaker 05

  team, I should say, and I bounced around. I was a sniper team leader at that time. And we got assigned to go do a mission with a team from the unit because they didn't have snipers with them.

• 2:17:32Speaker 05

  So we went on that. And after that, I was like,

• 2:17:40Speaker 05

  I'm trying out as soon as I get back.

• 2:17:42Shawn Ryan?

  Well, let's talk about opening all these fobs. What was that? I mean, that was early on.

• 2:17:47Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. I mean, it was when they first opened. Yeah.

• 2:17:50Shawn Ryan?

  I would think that would be amazing work.

• 2:17:55Speaker 05

  I mean,

• 2:18:01Speaker 05

  it was strange in hindsight. I mean, dude, I was doing like me and my team were doing four day patrols, like literally leaving the fob, four Rangers, and we'd be gone for three or four, we did several, but three or four days just on our own. No fucking way they would do that now. But you didn't, we didn't know, you know what I mean? It was just, it was just different then. No one had, I mean, dude, we'd be out fucking, you know, hanging it out there back then.

• 2:18:34Shawn Ryan?

  What was the point? What were you guys doing?

• 2:18:40Speaker 05

  From the directive of the

• 2:18:45Speaker 05

  the platoon we were attached to, we were basically like a forward warning system for the fob.

• 2:18:54Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:18:54Speaker 05

  You know, like we'd go out and, you know, if anyone was going to attack them, you know, we'd see them before they got there theoretically. We're also doing recce of some of the,

• 2:19:08Speaker 05

  you know, the surrounding areas.

• 2:19:09Shawn Ryan?

  Any offensive type stuff?

• 2:19:11Speaker 05

  No, not really. I mean, it was nothing. There was nothing crazy that that deployment wasn't. I mean, there was, you know, like,

• 2:19:24Speaker 05

  You know, an SF team got ambushed and then we reacted to their ambush and, you know, did that whole thing. I mean, there was nothing, one of the guys died at the FOB, but like,

• 2:19:41Speaker 05

  I mean, you know.

• 2:19:42Shawn Ryan?

  It wasn't like what you were expecting.

• 2:19:44Speaker 05

  It wasn't, it wasn't what I was, it wasn't the war I was hoping for.

• 2:19:47Shawn Ryan?

  So what happened on the operation that you went on with Delta?

• 2:19:55Speaker 05

  It was, I forget what the fuck we were doing.

• 2:20:01Speaker 05

  We went somewhere for something, I don't remember what, but we got shot at.

• 2:20:07Speaker 05

  And,

• 2:20:11Speaker 05

  which also was my first real dude fucking counter sniping hard. I mean, when you're in, like, you know, it was like a needle in a haystack. But it was just, again, it was just a different, just a, there was a different level, different environment, different, different everything.

• 2:20:37Shawn Ryan?

  Can you just walk us through that up in detail?

• 2:20:42Speaker 05

  So we,

• 2:20:45Speaker 05

  I mean, I don't remember it's super, I mean, nothing crazy happened. That's why I don't remember it's super well. We, I do, I do not remember what we were doing.

• 2:20:53Shawn Ryan?

  Well, what was it that happened on that operation that made you go, I want to be over here?

• 2:20:59Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, it was just, it was just the,

• 2:21:06Speaker 05

  the competence of those guys, competence, confidence, knowledge. It just, they were, it was like, it was, it was like they were Morpheus. Like they knew everything, you know, it's like, I'm just like, what the fuck? Like, it like blew my mind. And there's a crazy tie in to the team leader of that team later, which is again, crazy, but just everything was just like.

• 2:21:36Speaker 05

  I mean, I was at the point in range battalion, I was sniper team. No shit. Actually, I was a sniper section leader. Sorry. Um, I was a sniper section leader. So at that point,

• 2:21:47Speaker 05

  I wasn't really learning. I was just, I was teaching, you know, and I just wanted to be Joe again and be learning from people way better than me. And that's how I felt when I was with them. I'm like, dude, these guys are leaps and bounds above me. They, you know what I mean? Like, I, I need to be somewhere where I'm back to being the lowest man on the totem pole and, and in knowledge and

• 2:22:16Shawn Ryan?

  You're looking for that challenge.

• 2:22:18Speaker 05

  Exactly. I, I wanted to like, I wanted everyone to be, I wanted everyone around me to be better. Cause that's how you get better.

• 2:22:26Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:27Speaker 05

  Um, and so when that, when I got back from that deployment, like I went to the first, whatever the meeting was and dropped my packet.

• 2:22:37Shawn Ryan?

  Well, what was, uh, you said that was the first time you've been shot at?

• 2:22:42Speaker 05

  Uh, yeah, was it?

• 2:22:48Speaker 05

  I think so. Can't remember anything before that.

• 2:22:51Shawn Ryan?

  How did it feel? Were you excited?

• 2:22:53Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, I was super excited. Yeah, I was super excited. And like second, third time, still like, you know, yeah. I mean, maybe had the bullet like hit between my legs. I wouldn't have been so excited, you know, but um, yeah, no, I was.

• 2:23:14Shawn Ryan?

  Did you engage anyone?

• 2:23:16Speaker 05

  No, no, not on that. No, like I said, I mean, it was, I forget how many shots were fired, but it was just even repeated shots. I was like, you know, it's like a helicopter, you know, where, you know, I could not

• 2:23:31Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:31Speaker 05

  try and relate where, where the hell it was coming from. Um.

• 2:23:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, I was.

• 2:23:40Speaker 05

  It wasn't until my first Iraq deployment that I really like was like, oh, this is like, this is war, you know, like, ah, like, I mean, Afghanistan was,

• 2:23:55Speaker 05

  and it was just, you know, every war, location, you know, it's like when veteran, non-veterans talk about NOM, it's like, you know, you say you were

• 2:24:07Speaker 05

  Da'ang, I'm making something up, but you know, you're here. Well, were you here in this year? Or this, you know, it's just, it's a completely different war.

• 2:24:16Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:16Speaker 05

  You know, everywhere. So, um, you know, the Coragol Valley, when the beginning was like, you know, built the fobs. It wasn't until later that the kind of people moved in when they first went into Baghdad in 2003. Dude, my buddies were saying that they would after, like from the green zone, they'd go in light-skinned vehicles and go rug shopping. You know, wasn't until post, after the, the Blackwater thing happened at Fallujah, around that time, that's when, you know, shit started kicking off. So it's just interesting how the same place just changes so dramatically over time.

• 2:24:59Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. So you came back.

• 2:25:01Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 2:25:02Shawn Ryan?

  From Afghanistan, you put a packet in to go over to Delta.

• 2:25:05Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 2:25:06Shawn Ryan?

  How long did that take to get over there?

• 2:25:09Speaker 05

  I got back in, uh,

• 2:25:13Speaker 05

  August, I think. I think I got back in August.

• 2:25:18Speaker 05

  And then I went to selection in March. Yeah, August, and then I went to selection in March.

• 2:25:26Speaker 05

  And.

• 2:25:27Shawn Ryan?

  Made it through selection first time?

• 2:25:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:25:31Shawn Ryan?

  First time I've heard that.

• 2:25:34Speaker 05

  It's, I think it's, it's not common. It's, I think, I forget the number, but it's, the majority is the second time. And put it this way, the whole time I was in selection, I was in my head freaking constantly A R ing everything I did and everything for the second time. Like, I had no expectation of making it the first time. I mean, you don't know shit, like, you know. I even had, this is a funny story.

• 2:26:12Speaker 05

  I worked, that EP gig I told you about, I worked for one of the guys that made the standards. Oh, really? Yeah. Wow. And he had been drinking. I had dinner with him. He had been drinking, so I was like, I asked him some things. And what he told me, again, even drinking, he didn't say anything. But what he did say just confused me even more. What did you ask him? I, like, I was asking him certain, like, cumulative ti, you know, just like details about the timing, you know, I was just trying to like, I was just trying to, you know, pick

• 2:26:56Speaker 05

  and get it and do it, like, it just, it just confused me more. Like, I don't think he was aware enough to bullshit me, but everything you think, it's the best kept secret in the military, as far as I'm concerned. No one knows anything. I mean, and the people that know don't tell anyone, but it's, I can tell you, I know a lot, and it doesn't make any sense to me. I don't know how the fuck it works, so. Interesting. Yeah, it's, like I said, I was really hoping to get some kind of a

• 2:27:36Shawn Ryan?

  Something.

• 2:27:37Speaker 05

  Just something to make it make a little bit more sense. Like, and it, it didn't. But, um. But yeah, yeah, I, I, I went fully with the expectation of going again.

• 2:27:49Shawn Ryan?

  What, what were you trying to make sense of?

• 2:27:52Speaker 05

  Um.

• 2:27:54Shawn Ryan?

  The standards? What they're looking for?

• 2:27:56Speaker 05

  No, no, no, no, I was specifically, because everything's timed. So I was trying to figure out the details on.

• 2:28:02Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:28:03Speaker 05

  On the times, not, not on what the times were, because that actually probably wouldn't even be relevant. But, you know, just trying to understand like what they were based off. Because like they created the standards. So I was, again, I, I made it, it doesn't matter to me. But, but I was just trying to understand.

• 2:28:21Shawn Ryan?

  The selection standards.

• 2:28:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, like understand what they were like. What, what were they based on? You know, or like, how did, how did they figure it out? You know, I was just shit like that. I was, I was just curious. Um, and yeah, and it just got more. I just got more confused and curious, but, um.

• 2:28:41Speaker 05

  I mean, it is a very.

• 2:28:46Speaker 05

  Before going. And even there. I was like, I don't see how this applies to the job.

• 2:28:56Speaker 05

  After doing the job for a few years. I'm like. I totally see how this applies to the job. It's, it's, I mean, again, it's, you know, it's mostly taken from, you know, British essay selection. How they came up with the whole thing, I don't know. But, um, it's interesting. It's an interesting, it's an interesting process.

• 2:29:18Shawn Ryan?

  What is something that you didn't think applied to the job that after a few years you realized? Holy shit, this applies, definitely applies to the job.

• 2:29:26Speaker 05

  Well, I mean. What, so let's use just counterterrorism in general. I mean. How does rucking? You know, carrying a pack through various terrain. Alone.

• 2:29:45Speaker 05

  And navigating like, how does that have anything to do with CQB and hostage rescue? Like, I, I was like, I don't, I don't get it. Okay. And then later, I'm like, oh, I get it, you know, so.

• 2:30:04Speaker 05

  And again, and there's no official, you know, it's not like they say this translates to this because, you know, it's just my perspective on what I think it, it means and, and why I think it, it works and, and why it

• 2:30:23Speaker 05

  why it's a good system. But, you know,

• 2:30:29Speaker 05

  doing it, I mean, again,

• 2:30:32Speaker 05

  I had fun then, you know, like, I'm off on my own, doing land now. It's not like I have somebody in my face yelling me, yelling at me, calling me a hero, you know, I was like, just fucking land now, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll tell you this, I'll, I'll tell you this about section, because I'll never forget it. It was a just interesting to me.

• 2:30:59Speaker 05

  I was, one of the days I was walking and like, let's say I was here and then I went here.

• 2:31:08Speaker 05

  And then I got there and then they're like, all right, you gotta go here. And I was like, all right. So I went there, same place. And then I got there and they're like, all right, you need to go here. I'm like,

• 2:31:23Speaker 05

  same place? I mean, they didn't say anything, but I was like, oh, that's easy. I know how to get there. I don't know how many times I did that. And people quit from that.

• 2:31:38Speaker 05

  Because they're like, I was just there. As if there's a destination.

• 2:31:45Speaker 05

  No destination. I'm gonna, I'm gonna walk until you tell me to stop. I don't give a fuck if I go to Mexico. You, you know what I mean? Like it doesn't. I could walk in a circle. Like it, it's irrelevant to me. Um, but. Some people, you know, they're just in their head, it's, they don't think of it that way. They think of it like. But I was just there. I could have been done. I was there. It's like, there is no there. You're not here. You're not there. You're, it, there's no in-state. Their in-state is, you're done.

• 2:32:21Speaker 05

  I'll never forget that. I thought that was interesting.

• 2:32:23Shawn Ryan?

  That is interesting.

• 2:32:24Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah. Cause I was just like. I, I, it just, it never occurred to me. Like it never. It never bothered me. I, I, I didn't think of it that.

• 2:32:34Shawn Ryan?

  You were never like, how many fucking times am I gonna do this shit?

• 2:32:36Speaker 05

  Yeah. Like I just, to me, I'm like, oh, tell me to go somewhere, I'll go. Like I, I don't care. And, and, but, but. I think that's, again, that's an interesting.

• 2:32:51Speaker 05

  Like how many?

• 2:32:54Speaker 05

  How many things like in the military, like? Do you just have to, you can't get attached to the details of it. You just have to do it. You know, it's like.

• 2:33:05Speaker 05

  If you thought about the specifics of it, it would drive you crazy. But. You just have to. Like, fuck it. You just have to get it done. You know? And again, I don't know what the overall, uh. Method to the madness is, but, um.

• 2:33:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, a lot of things like that where you're just like, ah, all right, I, I see. Again, in hindsight, like there I was just. I did it, gave it my best every day and, um.

• 2:33:37Speaker 05

  Then at the end, you know, they're like, you're good. And I was like,

• 2:33:43Speaker 05

  cool. Like, I was a little too tired to be super happy about it. But uh, um, but I will say this too, like, when I went to selection, so the class before me had, I want to say five or six, I can't remember, had five or six guys from second bat, which is where I was. And I mean, these are, these were five or six of like, the fittest fucking dudes that second bat had. None of them made it.

• 2:34:15Shawn Ryan?

  No should.

• 2:34:15Speaker 05

  None of them made it. So then when I was going, I went by myself. Because everyone was like, those dudes didn't make it. I'm not fucking going. And when I like had my packet approved and everything, and I was going, people like, dude, why the fuck are you going like, so and so, so and so, so and so, and so and so went last class and they didn't make it. And I was like,

• 2:34:43Speaker 05

  yeah, so like, what does that have to do with me? Like, you know, you know what I mean? Okay, they're fit, but I don't know. Just again, I it, it didn't, didn't matter to me. I didn't. And and and the reason I bring it up is because

• 2:34:59Speaker 05

  somehow, which doesn't make sense to me, somehow,

• 2:35:04Speaker 05

  I've been able to have such a low opinion of myself for so long, yet in other areas, complete confidence.

• 2:35:14Speaker 05

  You know?

• 2:35:14Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:15Speaker 05

  Like, if I had a low opinion about myself in every way, I'd go, shit, those guys didn't make it? Oh, I'm definitely not doing it. But like with that, I was just like, well, those guys aren't me, like, well,

• 2:35:26Shawn Ryan?

  Well, we also

• 2:35:27Speaker 05

  give it my own shot.

• 2:35:28Shawn Ryan?

  We also discussed this earlier, you know, we, you'd said it yourself. If somebody tells you, you can't do something, you're gonna

• 2:35:34Speaker 05

  That's true.

• 2:35:35Shawn Ryan?

  do it.

• 2:35:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's true.

• 2:35:36Shawn Ryan?

  You know, and so there's that aspect.

• 2:35:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, that is very true.

• 2:35:40Shawn Ryan?

  I think a lot of guys going into, I mean, Rangers as well, you know, not just, not just all the way up to the unit, but all throughout special operations, I think that, you know, that's, that's a factor.

• 2:35:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

• 2:36:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, and.

• 2:36:03Speaker 05

  So you got in? That was, that was fun though. I mean, I had a good time there and yeah, then I moved over there and started, I forget how long exactly, it's almost a year, like of training.

• 2:36:21Speaker 05

  That was balls to the wall. That was rough.

• 2:36:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, I was still, which is common, but I was still healing from selection when, when I went to the next thing, you know, I mean, my body was still beat up.

• 2:36:42Speaker 05

  And I had focused on all cardio and rucking and then the next thing was not that at all.

• 2:36:51Speaker 05

  I mean, in hindsight, I would have trained very differently for, you know, but.

• 2:36:57Speaker 05

  But that dude was.

• 2:37:01Speaker 05

  That was what I had.

• 2:37:05Speaker 05

  That's what I'd been looking for.

• 2:37:08Speaker 05

  That was like the movie cool shit. Yeah. I mean, to me, you know, it was like, all right, like this is, this is movie cool. Like this is commando shit. Did you know anybody over there? Not well. I knew, I mean, I knew a couple of guys, but not by and large, and it's not a thing. But by and large, you know, guys that you know that go over, generally you don't talk to them. And it's not.

• 2:37:35Speaker 05

  It's just because you're busy, you know? So yeah, I knew a couple of guys, but.

• 2:37:42Speaker 05

  You know, and.

• 2:37:46Speaker 05

  And then, yeah, when I went over and training, I mean, dude, I. I mean, again, it was, it was rough, but I had a great time. I mean, I fucking learned a shit ton and.

• 2:37:58Speaker 05

  It was. I was so happy to be. The student again, you know, it was, it was great. To be by far the least competent person in the room and just so, just as it happened. So I went through in 2003.

• 2:38:20Speaker 05

  So the to be an instructor for that takes about usually it's about a decade. Nine, eight, you know, whatever. And for whatever reason, just by chance, I would say

• 2:38:41Speaker 05

  sixty five to seventy percent disproportionately high was Somali veterans. Ninety three, two thousand and three. Again, why? I mean, because that was only one squadron. But yeah, a lot of Somali veterans. And at this time, two thousand and three, there was, you know, we hadn't started Iraq. So there was no real CQB. I mean, there was very little CQB done to that point in Afghanistan. So having, you know, Somali veterans was, I learned a lot. It was very interesting.

• 2:39:18Shawn Ryan?

  For those listening that don't know what CQB is, that's clearing a house.

• 2:39:22Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:39:22Shawn Ryan?

  When you see a team of guys enter a house and flow through that CQB.

• 2:39:29Speaker 05

  And then, you know, that was, I mean, that was, it's funny because, you know, you, you go through that course and then you do a couple other things afterwards and, you know, and then you get assigned, you know, to a team and, you know, you're like,

• 2:39:52Speaker 05

  you think you're cool. You think, you know, you think you're good. And then you get to a team and you're, you're like, I suck again.

• 2:40:04Speaker 05

  You're like, everything they do is a thousand times faster than you were doing it at your fastest. And you're just like, shit, you know.

• 2:40:17Speaker 05

  And I think that's, I think that's cool, you know, like you get to where you think you're good and then you go and you're like, nope, I suck again, which is great because then you have to get to that level. Um, and you know, it's, um, to me, it's just a constant process of, of being uncomfortable and being the worst guy in the room, you know, which partly means you're a shitbag, but also partly means that, you know, you're, you're, um, you know, you're, you're trying to learn and surround yourself with really good people. And I mean,

• 2:40:58Speaker 05

  I learned from a lot of very solid, you know, between leaders and just people I worked with. So, um, yeah, it was, uh, it was a great experience. And then I did my first deployment there.

• 2:41:14Shawn Ryan?

  Where was that to?

• 2:41:15Speaker 05

  Fallujah, 2004.

• 2:41:16Shawn Ryan?

  Fallujah.

• 2:41:17Speaker 05

  Yeah. Fallujah, 2004. I mean, that shit was like World War II. Like, it's not comparable to.

• 2:41:29Shawn Ryan?

  Did you know you were going to Fallujah?

• 2:41:31Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:41:31Shawn Ryan?

  Early on?

• 2:41:33Speaker 05

  Uh, uh, maybe a month before we went out. I don't know exactly. No, maybe it was like only two weeks.

• 2:41:41Shawn Ryan?

  What was happening in theater at that time? Had we taken Fallujah yet?

• 2:41:44Speaker 05

  No. So at that time, at that time, this is, uh, I forget the month, but relatively early 2004, this is, um, after, this is like maybe two or three months after the Blackwater incident in Fallujah. So at the time, Fallujah was surrounded by the Marine Corps.

• 2:42:06Shawn Ryan?

  The, the Blackwater incident that you're talking about for the audience is when they

• 2:42:11Speaker 05

  Were ambushed.

• 2:42:12Shawn Ryan?

  The contractors, they pulled them out of the vehicle.

• 2:42:14Speaker 05

  And hung them.

• 2:42:15Shawn Ryan?

  Stripped them down, burned them.

• 2:42:17Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 2:42:17Shawn Ryan?

  And hung them upside down naked from a bridge.

• 2:42:19Speaker 05

  Correct. Yeah. Yeah, that was maybe three months prior, but, but around that time. So at that time, Fallujah was surrounded by, uh, well, several, uh, was it divisions?

• 2:42:34Speaker 05

  Uh, I forget my Marine Corps structure, but they were surrounded, little of the entire city was surrounded. But that was, that was interesting. I mean, it was, you know, just crazy.

• 2:42:51Shawn Ryan?

  Let's dive into it.

• 2:42:52Speaker 05

  Um, well, I mean, it was just, uh, I mean, operationally, there wasn't.

• 2:43:02Shawn Ryan?

  What were you guys doing?

• 2:43:04Speaker 05

  So we were there to essentially develop targets and assist. So we ended up assisting the Marine Corps several times. There's a couple

• 2:43:25Speaker 05

  uh, times Marine units got in trouble and like, I mean, just one as an example was

• 2:43:35Speaker 05

  they were taking fire and they couldn't get the building anyways and we had a SOFLAM. So we ended up going there and calling in CAS and, but yeah, I mean, you're calling CAS in the city, like frigging F-18s dropping bomb. I mean, you know, it was like, you know, away in the, you know, turning like non like, I mean, I mean, put it this way, I'm sure you know, like you couldn't have Mark 19s in Baghdad.

• 2:44:04Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:44:05Speaker 05

  In Fallujah, like dudes would be dumping entire belts or entire cans of Mark 19 rounds. I mean, it was just, it was, there were, if you saw someone, you could shoot them.

• 2:44:16Shawn Ryan?

  Mark 19, for those who don't know, is a grenade launcher.

• 2:44:20Speaker 05

  An automatic grenade launcher.

• 2:44:22Shawn Ryan?

  An automatic grenade launcher.

• 2:44:25Shawn Ryan?

  A can of, a can of what, 50 mic might as what, 50 rounds?

• 2:44:28Speaker 05

  Uh, I think it's like, I think it's 32. I can't remember.

• 2:44:31Shawn Ryan?

  32?

• 2:44:32Speaker 05

  There's two sizes of cans. I forget the larger one, but, um, but yeah, the rules of engagement, if you saw someone, you could shoot them, like saw them. Um, I mean, you know, just, it was like.

• 2:44:53Speaker 05

  I mean, at night, you know, Spectre was cleared hot and it would just, we'd watch it and it would just circle and just hammer like all night long.

• 2:45:06Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 2:45:06Speaker 05

  They would go off station when it was Winchester, another one would come on and just freaking keep up all night, all night.

• 2:45:17Speaker 05

  The, but yeah, flusia, you know, there was some,

• 2:45:27Speaker 05

  you couldn't go in. I mean, that wasn't possible. So everything was done around the outside because like one marine unit pushed in, I think like a hundred yards and it was so,

• 2:45:42Speaker 05

  it was so bad, tanks had to, Abrams had to come get them out. I mean, it was that intense.

• 2:45:49Shawn Ryan?

  I know who that was. He was in here for that interview, for an interview.

• 2:45:52Speaker 05

  Which one?

• 2:45:53Shawn Ryan?

  His name's Cody Alfred. He talks about.

• 2:45:56Speaker 05

  Was he a marine?

• 2:45:57Shawn Ryan?

  Yep. He talks about working side by side with you guys.

• 2:46:00Speaker 05

  Okay, so, so that I was, I was there.

• 2:46:03Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:03Speaker 05

  Who he's directly referring to though, is probably my buddy who's the medic that saved. Well, he,

• 2:46:14Speaker 05

  he almost saved a guy. He, he saved him and then,

• 2:46:19Speaker 05

  he saved him and then he dumped him off and they pushed IVs and blew out all the clotting that he had developed. I, I know it's a shitty story.

• 2:46:29Shawn Ryan?

  He said that, he said that you guys were telling them that you had never seen shit like this before.

• 2:46:39Speaker 05

  Oh, that.

• 2:46:39Shawn Ryan?

  Going down over there.

• 2:46:41Speaker 05

  That was like when those guys,

• 2:46:45Speaker 05

  I mean, I, I, I assume from what I was told that it was what Smalley was like. I, I assume. I don't, I don't know. But yeah, I mean, they got hit hard, like hard, hard.

• 2:47:02Speaker 05

  That daybreak, you know, I mean, mortars, RPGs, PKMs. Yeah. I mean, it was, it was, it was big.

• 2:47:13Speaker 05

  And.

• 2:47:20Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, that was that was again, it just that like an Abrams shooting into the city.

• 2:47:27Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:47:27Speaker 05

  Like the main gun.

• 2:47:29Shawn Ryan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:47:29Speaker 05

  It was just insane. And again, I.

• 2:47:33Shawn Ryan?

  So what were you? Were you guys just roaming the battlefield pretty much just killing bad guys? Or was there a very specific target set that you were after? Cause it seems it seems counterintuitive to insert a team.

• 2:47:49Speaker 05

  Well, we were.

• 2:47:50Shawn Ryan?

  Just to roam.

• 2:47:50Speaker 05

  We were trying to develop targets for ourselves, but it just, but you couldn't. Like you couldn't, you could not fly there.

• 2:48:00Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:48:00Speaker 05

  You could not drive in and you could not insert a helicopter.

• 2:48:04Shawn Ryan?

  Well, how the hell were you guys going to develop targets for yourself?

• 2:48:07Speaker 05

  Well, that's what we were, I mean, we didn't know that until we started to go through the process. But that was the intent was to develop targets and then, you know, spending the time there is like. I don't know, like it's nothing we could do.

• 2:48:24Speaker 05

  I sat in on the invasion briefings and all that. Yeah, I met Joe Mattis, who was a legend then, you know, let alone later.

• 2:48:34Speaker 05

  And.

• 2:48:37Speaker 05

  And then we were there for the, the big gun trade in to where they traded in like crew serve weapons. I forget what they got, but they turned in, basically they DX their old non-working stuff, just hilarious shit, you know? But.

• 2:48:57Speaker 05

  Yeah. So I mean, we just ended up doing a lot of stuff with the Marine Corps. Just, you know, I mean, we hit targets with the Marine Corps.

• 2:49:06Speaker 05

  So I've learned a lot about, about the Marine Corps, just working with them, that, that deployment.

• 2:49:11Shawn Ryan?

  What was your impression of them?

• 2:49:17Speaker 05

  In short, Marines are solid dudes that get fucked.

• 2:49:24Shawn Ryan?

  Like, are they good at what they do?

• 2:49:28Speaker 05

  Yes, but they're always doing it without the proper resources. It's almost like their command is like, we'll show you how shitty of conditions our Marines can operate in. Like, that's how I felt about it, you know?

• 2:49:47Shawn Ryan?

  Damn, that's a fucking shame.

• 2:49:49Speaker 05

  That's how I felt, you know, and I was just like, like, I'll tell you right now, I walked out of the invasion briefing.

• 2:49:57Shawn Ryan?

  No shit.

• 2:49:58Speaker 05

  Fucking got up and walked out. I was pissed. I was fucking pissed.

• 2:50:02Shawn Ryan?

  What, what, what were you pissed about? What specifically?

• 2:50:05Speaker 05

  Plan. I listened to the plan and I was just like, and dude, I was.

• 2:50:11Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, what were you pissed about, though? Were you pissed that we were sending in eighteen year old kids into a into a fucking kill zone? Were you pissed that they didn't have the resources they need to accomplish the mission?

• 2:50:22Speaker 05

  I was pissed at how stupid the plan was. I was pissed that in the plan was casualties in the plan.

• 2:50:38Speaker 05

  We're gonna lose some guys here, and we'll some guys here, like, no, redo your plan, your plan shit. I just, dude, I was, I mean, I was young. I was like twenty. I made selection when I was like twenty five, which was very, very young at that time, like that, like, very unusual at that time.

• 2:51:01Speaker 05

  My, my OTC class graduated two enlisted operators.

• 2:51:05Shawn Ryan?

  That's it?

• 2:51:06Speaker 05

  That's it. Me and another dude around the same age, who's just got out, actually, but.

• 2:51:14Shawn Ryan?

  Two, that entire selection OTC for two fucking guys. Wow.

• 2:51:20Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:51:22Shawn Ryan?

  That's saying something.

• 2:51:23Speaker 05

  And, and so.

• 2:51:28Speaker 05

  So, you know, I was young, full of piss and vinegar, you know, I, I just, it just.

• 2:51:32Shawn Ryan?

  In a, in the middle of a fuck, two wars, and they like snatched up two guys. That shit's unheard of. I've never fucking heard that from any other unit.

• 2:51:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:51:49Speaker 05

  And the reason I went at the beginning of Iraq is I was like, we're not going to Iraq. I was like, no, Afghanistan still, I'm not going to Iraq. So I was like committed. And then when it started happening, I was like, well, fuck, I was wrong about that, you know? But um. But yeah, just listening to the Marine officers, you know? How they talked about enlisted Marines just fucking pissed me off. It just fucking pissed me off. And I was just, it just.

• 2:52:21Shawn Ryan?

  Well, that's another thing that came out in that episode too with Cody is is all of that leadership over there and and how shit it is. And how it became more shit as time went on.

• 2:52:32Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean.

• 2:52:35Speaker 05

  I I I put it this way, I was not senior enough in the unit to get up and walk out of that meeting. You know, my team leader was not happy about it, but I I just.

• 2:52:49Speaker 05

  It was either I walked out or I would have said something. Cause I mean, should I have been more political? Absolutely. But I I just couldn't. It was the dumbest fucking plan I've ever heard. Well, maybe not the dumbest plan I've ever heard, but I mean, it was.

• 2:53:07Speaker 05

  It was just.

• 2:53:09Shawn Ryan?

  You're not used to seeing conventional planning.

• 2:53:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, maybe you're right.

• 2:53:16Speaker 05

  Plus, I knew what was there, you know?

• 2:53:20Speaker 05

  Yeah, that pissed me off. And then they put off the invasion.

• 2:53:30Speaker 05

  So they were supposed to invade when we were there. And then they didn't. I forget why. And then they ended up taking the city, I think. Sixish months later, I can't remember. And lost.

• 2:53:47Speaker 05

  I want to say 50 Marines.

• 2:53:50Speaker 05

  You know?

• 2:53:56Speaker 05

  It's the one thing I've learned on a related side note. Is everyone says like DFQ.

• 2:54:06Speaker 05

  Don't fucking quit. Never quit.

• 2:54:11Speaker 05

  Don't ever fucking quit.

• 2:54:18Speaker 05

  And that works to a point.

• 2:54:24Speaker 05

  Example, let's say there's five of us. And sergeant's like, "Charge that machine gun nest." And I charge it, and I got cut down. Second guy, "Charge that machine gun nest." Charges it, gets cut down. Third guy, "Charge it." Gets cut down.

• 2:54:43Speaker 05

  Now, the fourth guy,

• 2:54:47Speaker 05

  he could DFQ that one and charge it like everyone else, because I'm not a quitter. Or maybe, just maybe, we're doing it the wrong way.

• 2:55:02Speaker 05

  If you're so focused on never fucking quitting, dude, when we get out, we fuck up so many things because we're so "don't quit" focused that we don't realize that we're doing it the stupid way.

• 2:55:21Speaker 05

  And if you reassess and try and figure out a better way and then do it that way, is that quitting?

• 2:55:32Speaker 05

  No.

• 2:55:35Speaker 05

  And that's one thing I realized being out is how many things I did

• 2:55:47Speaker 05

  just to do it the hard way, almost for the hard way's sake. Because I'm not a pussy. I'm fucking do it the hard way. Fuck you. Watch this. And then, over time, it's like,

• 2:56:02Speaker 05

  there's probably a better way to do this.

• 2:56:06Speaker 05

  And I think that's a big lesson I learned is, by and large, there's always a smarter way.

• 2:56:17Speaker 05

  I would definitely agree with that. As I'm older and out longer, the more I realize that

• 2:56:24Speaker 05

  true skill is in figuring out the most efficient and easiest way to accomplish anything.

• 2:56:32Speaker 05

  Don't quit, you know?

• 2:56:40Speaker 05

  It's almost a, um, it's almost an indoctrination point, you know?

• 2:56:49Speaker 05

  Like if you think what the military used to be, which is a bunch of fucking morons online, marching on an open field to face each other and shoot each other without moving, like, you know, don't fucking quit, like, hold the line. It's the same mentality.

• 2:57:13Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:57:16Shawn Ryan?

  Yep. Well, let's take a quick break. When we come back, we'll finish up your, uh, your Iraq deployment.

• 2:57:22Speaker 05

  All right.

• 2:57:23Shawn Ryan?

  Next on the Sean Ryan Show.

• 2:57:28Speaker 05

  This is one of the most dangerous things I've ever done. So everyone else was in Baghdad. We were in Flujan, you know, and this was played out that way and this was played out that way. I mean, it was, and it was broken in like eight places and it was before, cause the medic was treating the guys that were shot on the front side. And when he finally got, before he got to me, it occurred to me that I might die.

• 2:57:53Shawn Ryan?

  Do you keep in touch with these guys that you were on that op with?

• 2:57:57Speaker 05

  There's probably a reason I haven't asked you to do this podcast. There's probably a reason that I don't keep in contact really with any of them. You know, it's a place where no one's from.

• 2:58:10Speaker 05

  Most people move there from somewhere else, do their thing and then leave. You know, it's a very transient city for people that are kinda unsure maybe of their direction. And I think that was me.