291. How I wrote a book

I wrote a book and it's out today! Person in Progress: The Roadmap to The Psychology of your 20s contains everything you need to know about your 20s: how to find your purpose, how to manage relationship breakdowns, fight your self doubt, break bad habits, manage your money, heal your childhood wounds, embrace your authenticity, all from a scientific place! In this episode we break down exactly HOW I wrote my book and all the advice I would give to a new writer, including: How to find your big idea How to find a publisher How to write a pitch My 5 best tips for writing even when it's hard How to manage imposter syndrome and worrying 'will anyone read this' How to deal with writer's block + so much more Listen now! ORDER MY BOOK HERE: https://www.psychologyofyour20s.com/general-clean https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/755841/person-in-progress-by-jemma-sbeg/ Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg https://www.instagram.com/jemmasbeg/?hl=en# Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast https://www.instagram.com/thatpsychologypodcast/?hl=en# For business: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] The Psychology of your 20s is not a substitute for professional mental health help. If you are struggling, distressed or require personalised advice, please reach out to your doctor or a licensed psychologist. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Jemma Sbeg?

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• 0:45Jemma Sbeg?

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• 1:30Jemma Sbeg?

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• 1:48Jemma Sbeg?

  These days, there are more people than ever telling you how to manage your health. Your social media feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max and so much more. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? Health versus hype from the American Medical Association breaks it all down.

• 2:10Jemma Sbeg?

  Host Trace Dominguez talks to health influencers, real people, and most importantly, doctors to separate fact from fiction. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to really matters. Listen to health versus hype wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world. It is so great to have you here back for another episode as we, of course, break down the psychology of our twenties. Today's episode is going to be a little bit different. We are not talking about, you know, something that every twenty something is gonna do, which I typically like to centre my episodes

• 2:55Jemma Sbeg?

  on. We're not even talking about psychology all that much. But of course, there is still gonna be an element of that. What we are talking about is my new book, mainly the process by which I was able to write it. My book took me around four to six months to write, to write the first draft. The first draft I was really, really happy with. And then from there, there were so many extra hidden steps that I think that no one really talks about when they say they wanna write a book or when they're talking about authorship. I think we have this idea in our heads of like, okay, I'll write a book, I'll put everything into it, it will take, it will take me a couple of months and then it will come out.

• 3:39Jemma Sbeg?

  And as soon as I'm done writing it, you know, the next shipment of books that are coming in, that's gonna have my name on it. It's such a secretive process almost. And I know that so many people have on their bucket list on, one of their huge life goals is to write a novel, is to write a book. And having done it, having slugged through it, suffered through it, but also really enjoyed the process at times, I thought that this would be something interesting to talk about and to also be able to answer the questions that so many of you have been asking me in the lead up to Person in Progress's release. This is such a great opportunity when this is.

• 4:20Jemma Sbeg?

  Fresh in my mind to really talk about the secret ins and outs of book writing. So I know this episode, it might not necessarily appeal to everyone who is a long time listener of the psychology of your twenties, but for those of you who it does. Honestly, I find this stuff so fascinating. I listened to so many podcasts when I was writing my book about how to do this. So I thought I'd add my own tips to the story and to the wealth of information out there. If you've ever wanted to write a book, if it's something on your bucket list, if you are currently writing a book, if you just want to understand the artistic process a little bit more, maybe learn something. This episode is for you. I am so excited. We're gonna cut the intro

• 5:04Jemma Sbeg?

  nice and short so we can get into the nice juicy stuff. Without further ado, let's talk about how I wrote my book, Person in Progress.

• 5:17Jemma Sbeg?

  Okay, so for the last six months, I have been writing all of my thoughts and feelings about book writing in my Notes app. I kind of always knew I wanted to document this, which is great for me now because all of my thoughts, it's all here, it's all ready to be shared. Let me start with explaining why I knew I wanted to write a book, because I think that that why is really, really important and often neglected. I want to remind you, it's not that you want to write a book, you should want to write the book. A specific book that you know needs to be written, that you feel called to in your heart to put out there, that you feel like it just needs to be spoken, it needs to be written down. There is no other option going forward

• 6:02Jemma Sbeg?

  that does not involve you creating this thing. Here are some of the questions I would ask myself, or that you can ask yourself to understand. What kind of book is it that you actually want to write? The biggest thing to notice is if you want to write a book. What is the thing that you already could talk about all day? What is the thing that you think about the most? What is the topic, idea, conversation that you bring up with your friends all the time? What is the thing you feel like you can't not write about? What we're really getting to here is trying to find the direction in which you should be placing your efforts.

• 6:42Jemma Sbeg?

  And trying almost to uncover the idea that I think we all have, all of us have a brilliant story that only we can tell. All of us have some kind of knowledge or lived experience with the topic that hasn't been told before. The thing is, it's about identifying that. Now, another element of this is that there are some books that you might think you can write that you just shouldn't. And it feels strange because maybe you are sitting on a million idea and you're thinking, oh my gosh, I should really write this book. Or someone should, but you have no motivation to begin. You have no idea what would happen with it. You have no storyline, nothing like that. That is either the start of a really great idea, or it's a sign that that idea actually doesn't belong to you.

• 7:27Jemma Sbeg?

  So I heard this brilliant analogy by Elizabeth Gilbert, who we've interviewed on the podcast before. And she explains how ideas, we don't necessarily own them. Before we create something, all we have is an idea. But until we put that idea into and make it into something tangible and we put it into fruition. Anyone is welcome to come and take it. Anyone is welcome to have dibs to it. Essentially, what she explains is that there are all these ideas that are kind of existing around us and within the walls. There are all these stories that the universe once told. And they are going to find the person, the universe, the spirits, whatever it is, the Roman gods, the Greek gods, God in general.

• 8:12Jemma Sbeg?

  This force is going to find the person who is going to be able to execute that idea most succinctly and quickly. So if you have an idea for a book, but you really are actually just not that committed to it. It's okay to let that idea go and leave space for a better one or a more fresh, personal, interesting idea to you, because perhaps that idea doesn't really belong to you. The reason I've put so much time into explaining this is because that happened to me. The initial book that I wanted to write, I now realise was not my book. I initially wanted to write, I had two ideas.

• 8:51Jemma Sbeg?

  I initially wanted to essentially keep a journal for two years and then publish tho- like certain journal entries as like an anthology or or a collection of like the twenty something diaries, which if you follow me on Instagram, you'll know is something that I do over there. But I wanted to basically give people almost the ability to buy my diary with like handwritten entries in it on like a mass scale. A couple of problems with that, I still think it's a good idea and if someone else wants to do it, like it's, it's not my idea anymore, like I'm not gonna make that idea, so someone else is welcome to do it. Um, I think the issue with that is that it is quite vulnerable and it,

• 9:34Jemma Sbeg?

  what it made me realise is that I would end up writing in my journal, in my diary, as if there was already an audience there, as if someone was already perceiving everything that I'd written. Because I was already committed to the practice, I al- already journal basically every single day. But at the point that I decided that those journals were gonna be published, obviously, that was going to completely disrupt the artistic and also the emotional and personal process of that practice. So that was the first idea and I realised like that's not gonna work. The second idea was that I wanted to write this book called The Overachievers' Guide to Doing Less. And I wanted to talk about how through

• 10:16Jemma Sbeg?

  Mistakes and errors and faults and flaws and this whole process, I have kind of learnt to put less pressure on myself. And I know that there are so many individuals out there who are very type A and who were raised as gifted overachievers, who to this day, struggle with this idea that their output is their entire worth. And I really wanted to write a self-help book, I guess, debunking that idea and providing like tangible, practical ways to re-center your life on things that you actually enjoy and that bring you joy, rather than on what seems impressive for other people, how hard you can work, how much you can push yourself.

• 10:58Jemma Sbeg?

  So those were two ideas that I had before I decided to write Person in Progress. And I am fully okay with the fact that, yes, those may have been great ideas, but that was not the book that I was being called to write. The book that I was being called to write was, this book was Person in Progress. This is how I figured that out. I figured it out because it was what I was already obsessed with and I was actually already writing about. The podcast, The Psychology of Your Twenties, like those episodes could have made a novel. And something that not many people know is that actually, most of these episodes are scripted. And that requires me to write, you know, somewhere, anywhere between four thousand to seven thousand words

• 11:43Jemma Sbeg?

  for every single script. And I was doing that, like happily. I was so involved in that process of writing my scripts to a week, sometimes ten thousand, twelve thousand, thirteen thousand words, that I kind of took a step back and was like, oh, I'm already writing this book. I'm writing this book just in a different form. So what's the challenge gonna be? What's the big difference? Like, this is the book that I'm being called to write. The other thing was that I could not stop taking notes of everything around me that I was almost already committed to putting in the book. Let me explain that. So I remember specifically,

• 12:25Jemma Sbeg?

  um, there's a story in the book of one of my friends and she previously had like the most terrible workplace and she had a terrible boss and it was just an awful experience. And I remember hearing that story and

• 12:43Jemma Sbeg?

  Talking it through with her and getting really, really involved. And then a part of me was like, wow, like, that would be a great part of this book. Like, someone could even write a whole book around this. And I, and I wrote down her story, obviously without permission. And there were so many other instances like that. Like, friends breakups, things I was learning in my own life, things I was noticing in the news. It felt like the structure was being built by those very ideas. And I just had to kind of fill in the blanks and be committed to making it coherent. So this is my first big piece of advice. If you want to write a book, the idea should almost feel natural to you.

• 13:23Jemma Sbeg?

  It should feel like already in your mind, already in what you are noticing, in the notes that you are jotting down. You're already committed to writing this book, like you are already doing research. You are already on the lookout for things that will contribute to the story that you know needs to be told. That has not been told yet. The next thing I want to talk about, which no one talks about, is how to write a pitch. So there's kind of two ways that you go about writing a book. Either you write the whole book, you write the whole manuscript, and then you start looking for a publisher. Or you have the idea and before you write it, you pitch it to publishing houses and see if they'll give you

• 14:07Jemma Sbeg?

  an advance and see if they'll find you a slot. So a slot is basically um the time in the year when your book is going to be released. So something that no one told me before I started writing a book is that publishers, obviously, cannot flood the market with every single book that is proposed to them, pitched to them. But also with every single book that they are even working on. You know, they have to kind of sta- like stagnate, what's it called, like um stagger. They have to kind of stagger their release. And so they are looking out for books that are going to fill certain slots in their roster. Most publishing houses, they know what books they're going to be publishing two years in.

• 14:52Jemma Sbeg?

  Advance. They know what book's gonna be coming out in April twenty twenty seven. That book is already being written right now. And so even if you haven't written the book yet, they are constantly looking for amazing ideas and stories that could fill those slots. So if you wanna go that route, what you need to do is write a pitch. This is exactly what a pitch is going to involve. It's going to involve a small section about you, about your experience, about your background, about anything that you think is relevant to why you are writing the story. Perhaps if you are writing a scientific or a health-based book, or a self-improvement book, or a psychology book,

• 15:34Jemma Sbeg?

  you know, you wanna say I have a bit of credibility, so I have a degree, I have worked in this space, yada, yada, yada. Maybe if you're writing a fiction book, um, you wanna say, well, this is where I've had pieces published before, that kinda stuff. A little bit of an about me section. Then you want a section that is about the book. Who is the audience going to be? What is the plotline going to be? Who are the characters? What's the story gonna be based around? What are the major themes going to be? Why do you think people will read this book? Maybe noticing certain trends, like if you're writing a romance book thing, well, look, this, this, the romance industry is absolutely thriving, like

• 16:16Jemma Sbeg?

  this is where I see my book fitting in here. Basically selling your book and saying, you're gonna make money off of this, hopefully. Uh, here's why. Here is exactly why and exactly who is going to buy it. Then typically, you're going to wanna give kind of a section outline, a story outline. For me, obviously, I wrote a non-fiction book, so I wrote a chapter outline. That will change, but it's basically just like, I've thought about this enough to have something that I can give you to show that I'm prepared to put effort into this and I'm prepared to watch this evolve. So I did like a, I basically just gave them my table of contents, what I expected my table of contents to be. Um, and then I wrote two sample chapters, two sample chapters.

• 17:02Jemma Sbeg?

  That I basically was like, I believe these will end up in the final manuscript. And they did end up in the final manuscript, obviously deeply changed and edited, but the overall theme of them was the same. And that's an important component of this because again, they wanna know your tone. They also wanna know that you're a good writer. They wanna know that, yeah, you're gonna be capable of creating something that they actually think is worthy of reading. Uh, worthy in their minds. Personally, I think anything that you've written is worthy of reading and rereading and changing, even if

• 17:40Jemma Sbeg?

  no one else is buying it, like it's still a beautiful process just to write something and create something, even if no one ends up buying it. But what they're looking for is sometimes a specific way of writing or a specific, um. Yeah, a specific tone, a specific process that they have kind of seen work for them in the past. I don't really know if I can give you any further detail about that because I think I just went into it being like, this is what I would wanna read. This is how, this is my writing style. So I'm just gonna write these chapters the way that I would do it if no one was watching. And luckily for me, they really, really liked them. If of course, um, perhaps you're writing a fiction book.

• 18:26Jemma Sbeg?

  You might, like for me, it was very easy to do two chapters because they were, I think fifteen pages each, so thirty pages in total of my book. And, um, like all the chapters are distinct, right? So like if I was to show you the table of contents, if you have the book, like you'll know that each chapter is its own package, kind of. If you're writing a fiction book, it might be a little bit different. You might have to flesh out the storyline a little bit more. Perhaps provide the first, um, few chapters, like the first, um, you know, the first critical part of the book before they say, yes, we want you to write this. That is how to write a pitch.

• 19:08Jemma Sbeg?

  You are then welcome to find people's emails. Maybe you find an agent. I had an. Agent, which I was very lucky to have through like previous um relationships that I had. Basically, I said to the person who manages my podcast, like, I really wanna write a book. And she was like, I'll get you in touch with a friend. His name was Dan. He works for U T A. And he basically like handled a lot of this for me. So I can't say that I'm an expert in this part. But essentially, what I believed he did was send that pitch to a bunch of people in the industry who he knew. And then there was kind of um, you've basically, it's called taking it to market. And then people bid on your book. If you're lucky enough to have multiple people interested.

• 19:53Jemma Sbeg?

  Sometimes you might just have one person interested and they go, yeah, we love this book. We'll buy the rights. This is how much we'll offer you. Maybe they'll only offer you royalties, whatever it is, the deal that you're getting. Um, or you might have multiple people, which is just like so amazing if you do and so incredible. Literally, someone just reading your manuscript is already a huge success. One person by wanting to buy your book is an even bigger success. Two people wanting to buy your book is just insane. So that is something that some people encounter where there's. They've taken it to market. There's kind of a bidding war and the people, the publishing houses will say, well, this is what we can offer you.

• 20:32Jemma Sbeg?

  If you publish with us. There is also the opportunity to self-publish to say, okay, I'm gonna put. A grand, two grand, which is a lot of money, but however much you're willing to put into it, to make copies of this book. Myself and to get them printed at a local printer and then to go into bookstores and say, hey, I'm a local author. Will you stock my book? And you know what? There have been some incredible success stories from people doing this. I don't know if anyone knows this. I guess it's a novel. Um, this book, it's called The Diary of an Oxygen Thief. That book, I remember it being huge and it's like a very gripping story. The anonymous author of that book actually um.

• 21:18Jemma Sbeg?

  You know, managed to get a full-time retailer and a full-time publisher from initially pitching it to local bookstores who were like, yeah, we'll buy a couple of copies and we'll sell them. And then they couldn't keep them because people were like, wow, this is such a good book and we're recommending it to their friends. So there are so many routes through which you can do this. That aside, let's now talk about how to actually write a book. How to actually get to that 70,000, 80,000, 90,000 word limit and enjoy the process? Because I know this is going to sound dramatic, writing a book is like birthing a child.

• 21:59Jemma Sbeg?

  Quite literally, you spend more time with that book than someone spends with a child in their womb. Like, it takes so many months. It is a labor of love. But there are also some tips and tricks and practices that make it a lot easier and that make it something that you actually feel quite fulfilled by. So we are going to take a short break. But when we return, let me give you my five best tips for the very act of writing your dream novel.

• 22:32Jemma Sbeg?

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• 23:12Jemma Sbeg?

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• 23:39Jemma Sbeg?

  This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over fourteen years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know, they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is, lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favourite gym clothing at gymshark.com.

• 24:16Jemma Sbeg?

  These days, there are more people than ever telling you how to manage your health. And we've all gone down an internet rabbit hole exploring the latest health trends. Your social media feed is packed with wellness advice, telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what Health vs Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel and YouTube, talks to health influencers, real people, and most importantly, doctors,

• 25:00Jemma Sbeg?

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• 25:42Jemma Sbeg?

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• 26:23Jemma Sbeg?

  Okay, so I have five pretty large tips, five pretty broad tips for you on how to write a book. So most books that you read are, unless it's like a short story, like a Claire Keegan kind of book, is probably going to be above sixty five thousand words. I think that was my minimum word count for my book. It ended up being, I think, around eighty five thousand. But by that stage, like I was on a roll, like there was no stopping me. I genuinely think at one point my publisher was like, please, please stop writing so much, like some of this is garbage. Maybe they would deny that, but yes, there is a certain word limit that you want to get to.

• 27:04Jemma Sbeg?

  In order to get to that word limit, the first thing that you need to do is think before you write, but not too deeply. Basically, what I mean by that is have some vague idea of where your story, where your novel, where your book is going to go. Don't just expect that you can sit down and say, I've had this great idea, check. I know I need to write this book, check. I feel like it's writing itself, check. At some point, that book is gonna stop writing itself and you are going to have to push hard. Like, I explained it to a friend recently is anyone who's ever written a book has gotten to this like large chasm, this large like

• 27:47Jemma Sbeg?

  um, empty space where you're on one side and where you want to go is the other side. And you have to find a way to ferry your book or get your book over that large. Space in between. However, you do it, it's a metaphor. You jump, you build a bridge, you find a detour, like there is going to be a difficult point. Um, you can kind of avoid the difficulty of that snag by having some premeditated idea of where you think your story is gonna go. So for me, I, like I explained, had that entire chapter outlined. So the day I started writing my book, which was January twenty eighth, twenty

• 28:28Jemma Sbeg?

  twenty three, yeah, January twenty eighth, twenty twenty three, I remember I'd just gotten back from Japan. Like, I knew what I had to write and I knew how much of the book I needed to write every single week and month um in order to get to my deadline. So my publisher had set a deadline and also set a personal deadline. That is something I would really encourage you to do if you are committed to writing a book. You can't just say I'm gonna write a book because and not give that an end date because you probably won't do it. It's like saying, having a vague idea of like, I wanna get fit, I wanna get healthy. When, how, with

• 29:11Jemma Sbeg?

  who, whereabouts, like you need to create structure around what is a huge endeavor and a huge goal. I would say you need at least four months to write a book if you have, and a lot of us have full-time jobs, like I obviously was still running the podcast as my full-time job alongside writing the book, like four months is a is a push. Anyway, between four to twelve months, no more than twelve months, though, because suddenly that becomes something that you can delay and something that you can kind of put off. I think the sweet spot is around six to seven months. That's kind of where you have enough of the urgency to write and to be actively involved in the writing process, but not enough urgency that

• 29:56Jemma Sbeg?

  you feel stressed out by this process and you feel stressed out by the end date. Knowing I had a deadline in mind was really, really important for me and it kind of leads me to tip number two, which is To create and commit to a routine. Commit to a routine that is X number of chapters per day, per week, per month. Maybe a specific time in the day when you will sit down and write for two hours. For me, I did three days a week where my only job was to write. So I would do Sundays, Mondays and Tuesdays. Were my writing days and then um.

• 30:38Jemma Sbeg?

  Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays, and then the first half of Saturday was like when I would work. Um, and I found that really, really worked for me because it allowed me to kind of compartmentalize and. Keep the two distinct things that I was doing separate because they also were kind of similar. So I just felt like. It would be very easy if I hadn't done that to flick from one to the other, to one to the other and and feel like I was losing. My mind. So that's how I structured it. I I know people do it differently. There's a very famous writer called Murakami. I'm, oh, what's, what's some of the stuff that he's written? Oh, I cannot remember. Men talking about women, I think, is maybe one of them.

• 31:21Jemma Sbeg?

  He, just look him up. He's written some fantastic things, like it's escaping my mind right now, but. My dad was telling me how he, when this man is committed to writing a new novel. How he does it is that he's really into running, right? And he uses running as a reward. So he says, I have to write fifteen pages before I'm allowed to run. That kind of positive reinforcement reward cycle is something that really works for people. Saying, okay, well, I'm not gonna go see my friends and still I've, until I've done my a thousand words for the day, until I've done. My chapter for the week. I can't go out on a Saturday unless this is done.

• 32:01Jemma Sbeg?

  I know that feels quite clinical and and disciplined and maybe that's not how you see storytelling and story writing and. Obviously, this is just my perspective, so you can do it however you want, but I will say having that kind of discipline is something that. Maybe we're missing a little bit. Think about the time when you were most productive in your life. It was probably when you were in primary school or high school, like, or in college, when you had structures to your day. You had timelines, you had end dates and deadlines and goals that you had to meet. You were able to manage so many things because you provided your brain with a goal-based environment and a goal-winning

• 32:43Jemma Sbeg?

  structure in which it can operate easier. The other thing is that writing a book is still fun, right? For all the discussions around creating a routine and being disciplined and commitment and blah, blah, blah. It's just that it's a unique kind of fun called type two fun. So someone explained this to me the other day. There are three different types of fun, type one fun, type two fun, type three fun. So type one fun is stuff that's just always going to be a blast, like a trampoline park, like a comedy show, like things that are just innately enjoyable without requiring too much effort from you. Type two fun is the kind of fun that writing a book is, or running a marathon.

• 33:26Jemma Sbeg?

  It's not necessarily all that fun when you're doing it, but it's fun at various points when you can look back and see how far you've come, or see the outcome of your hard work, or get to read what you've written. Type three fun is just not fun at all, right? Type three fun is the kind of fun that none of us really wanna get into. Hiking Everest, like ending up doing things that are very, very dangerous, or going to actually leave you very scared, lonely, incapable. They're not even fun in hindsight. Like, there was the potential for type two fun, but that potential wasn't there. Lean into the type two fun of this moment.

• 34:09Jemma Sbeg?

  Yes, writing a book is hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would be doing it. There is a reason that not everyone writes books. That's also a really enjoyable and romantic part of the process. I think it is quite beautiful that you are committing your brain and your body and your mind and your soul to not a sprint, a marathon of creativity, knowing that you're unsure of the outcome, but knowing even more so that this is something that you need to do. I will also say, write at your best times, not at the ideal time. So I definitely feel that there is this pull and sense that we need to do our work during business hours,

• 34:51Jemma Sbeg?

  even if what your work is, is completely self-driven and self-motivated. Like, if you're writing a novel, you need to be writing between nine to five. That's delusional. Um, not everyone, like the whole nine to five system is quite delusional. The fact that everyone thinks our peak operating times is during such a limited period of hours is ridiculous. Every single one of us actually has our own unique circadian and cortisol and arousal rhythm. And we also have our peak attention and peak performance times that are going to occur at unique points in the day that probably differ from most other people.

• 35:32Jemma Sbeg?

  For me, writing at nine P M, oh my God, it was like the words were fire. It was like, I could not stop this, these thoughts from like pouring out of me. Writing at ten A M when everyone was suggesting I should be at my peak productivity, it was miserable. Like, I genuinely felt like I could not keep my eyes open. I think I ended up realising that the best times for me to write were between seven to nine A M, two to five P M and nine to eleven P M. Obviously, that's only six hours. There were times when I did have to push myself during those days that I was writing.

• 36:14Jemma Sbeg?

  But if I had the option to do other things during that time, you best believe I was taking them because I just knew that I was better well spent on doing some of these other less intense tasks during this time. Then doing them when they were perhaps more expected, like in the morning or the evening when I was going to be more primed for writing. So pay attention to when you feel most invigorated by your book, you feel most in a flow state. You feel like the whole process is a lot more effortless. I will also say adventure in between times where you are really committed to writing. So whether that means taking your writing

• 36:56Jemma Sbeg?

  to a retreat, going out of town for a little bit, booking a secluded Airbnb by yourself and just committing to writing for the weekend. And then in between sessions, going for nature walks, going outdoors, going to wineries, seeing friends. Our brain thrives on novelty and newness and especially those of us with a creative mind. We need more of that than the average person. That novelty and newness is how your brain creates new connections. It's also how it creates new ideas and how it turns abstract thinking into concrete thinking into creative thinking. You know, someone who is sitting in a plain white room is not going to write

• 37:39Jemma Sbeg?

  anywhere near a greater book as someone who is writing that same novel in the countryside. Or somewhere where there is stimulation and new experiences and new encounters and human interactions that can inspire them. So make sure you do not lose your need for novelty and freshness and adventure in the discipline and routine of writing a book. In fact, I think the more fun you have in between writing sessions, the better that book is actually going to end up being. This next tip is probably my favorite one and it is also the tip that I learnt the hardest of all ways. And it is that sometimes you have to kill your darlings.

• 38:23Jemma Sbeg?

  Sometimes you write something that you think is really, really good, or that isn't actually that good, but it took so much of you to write it that you think it deserves a place in your final manuscript. There was a particular chapter in Person in Progress that did not make it to the final print edition that I spent two weeks on. Two weeks on one chapter and it didn't even make it. And here's the thing, from the very beginning, I knew it was a bad chapter. I knew the flow wasn't there, I knew the idea wasn't there, I knew the commitment wasn't there. I knew there was just nothing for me in this chapter. It didn't belong in the book, but I was forcing it and forcing it and I had to write it.

• 39:06Jemma Sbeg?

  And then when my editor was like, this is not a good chapter, I'm gonna cut it. I was like, you can't, because that took so much from me. Even though I know it's not good, it took so much from me. I don't regret writing it, I don't regret putting all my thoughts down onto the page, because maybe it could have turned out amazing, but at some stage, you will have to kill plotlines, kill characters, change characters, kill storylines, kill certain arcs, because they just aren't working. You're gonna have to kill your darlings. It is better to have had a first draft and to have committed to a bad idea and killed off that idea than committed to no idea at all. So if there is an instinct to write something, even if it's difficult, still write it.

• 39:51Jemma Sbeg?

  You can always cut it and remove it. And yes, it might feel like a loss, but it also means that the better parts of your book speak louder. So don't be afraid to go back and say, yeah, this, this probably wasn't my best work. Something better is gonna take this chapter or the sentences or the storylines place. Here are my two final tips. This second last one is something we've already spoken about, but I wanna really, really nail this point home. Write this book for you first, not for anybody else. What I mean by that is that when you are writing your novel, your book, there is a great deal of pressure and an instinct, I think, to

• 40:36Jemma Sbeg?

  Constantly be ruminating and trying to dissect what you think the reader would wanna read or hear or see happen next. There is an obsession with how this novel, this book is going to be perceived. And that intense awareness of other people's perception can mean that you write a book that is not actually in your own voice and not actually something that you actually wanted to write because you were so fearful of other people's disapproval. A bad book that you enjoy writing and that sounds like you is better than an okay book that sounds like anyone else could have written it.

• 41:18Jemma Sbeg?

  And it's better than an okay book that everyone's like, eh, about. Write this book in your style, even if you think they might not like it, even if you think there are decisions that you are making that they wouldn't make. Like, this is your book at the end of the day. You know, you could finish writing this manuscript and only one person could buy it and you actually haven't written the book that you wanted to write. And then in the future, twenty years down the line, when you dig up an old copy and you find it and you're reading it, you're thinking, ugh, like, why did I do that? Why did I try and sound so smart? Why did I try and sound so pretentious? Why did I use words I didn't know? Why did I say things I didn't actually believe in?

• 41:57Jemma Sbeg?

  Oh, it was because of this arbitrary ghost-like amalgamation of a reader who I don't even know or care about, but whose fantasy opinion I was gearing towards. This is your book? The act of writing it in itself is a healing, beautiful, sacred practice? Who cares if no one likes it? If you like it, if you had fun writing it, that is all that matters. I would also call you to constantly reflect on the why. Like I said, there will come a point where there is a chasm, there is a drop-off, there is a space that you have to bridge to get to the other side of writing this piece of work. The thing that will actually really help you get there is why do I actually wanna write this?

• 42:41Jemma Sbeg?

  What is my intrinsic motivation for producing this piece of work? I can't give you that motivation, I can't give you the answer to that question. There are a few different whys. Maybe your why is that this is a story that you feel needs to be on a page for you to have closure. Maybe your why is that this is the book that you wish that you had and you wish that you would read. Maybe your why is that you're just so endlessly fascinated by the story or that you've always wanted to be a writer and this feels part of your destiny. We're all gonna have a different motivation. Make sure you are clear on what yours is and make sure you continuously reflect on it. For me, my why was, this is the book that I really needed and I wish that people had

• 43:26Jemma Sbeg?

  been more honest about certain topics that went into the book. I didn't really find that honesty in anything else I was reading. My other why was that I was doing it for my future self. You know, since I was a child, I really wanted to be a writer and I really wanted to be an author. But I also knew that my older self really would have wanted to know what I was thinking and feeling at this point in my life. And although I didn't end up using that diary idea I was talking about at the beginning, person in progress is, it's not biographical, but there definitely are biographical elements to it and stories that I think my future self would really get a kick out of reading. And I think that this was an endeavor that I knew was always going to be worthwhile,

• 44:11Jemma Sbeg?

  even if no one bought it because I would have the opportunity to say, I did that, I did the hard thing, I wrote a book. At some stage in my life, I had enough good thoughts, or at least what I thought were good thoughts, to put eighty-five thousand words down on a page and print it off and if nothing else, give it to family and friends. So that was my longstanding motivation. Okay, we are going to take a short break, but when we return, I want to answer some of the questions you guys asked me over on Instagram about how to write a book. Very, very simple question, the one we've been talking about this entire time, but I wanted to hear from you guys and your specific questions, so stay tuned.

• 44:55Jemma Sbeg?

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• 45:40Jemma Sbeg?

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• 46:22Jemma Sbeg?

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• 46:39Jemma Sbeg?

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• 47:03Jemma Sbeg?

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• 47:39Jemma Sbeg?

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• 48:19Jemma Sbeg?

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• 48:46Jemma Sbeg?

  Okay, so you guys know this is a new thing that we're doing, where I get you guys to ask your questions about any episodes or ideas that we are discussing. And today, the questions had to do with the act and the process of writing. This first question comes from Lauren. How do you know where to start? Now, I think for me, that was quite easy. I did initially start with the first chapter. However, as I went along, I started jumping between sections. So, Person in Progress has four sections. Each of them are very different from the last. One of them's about work, one of them's about relationships, one of them's about healing, one of them's about everyday twenty-something experiences.

• 49:28Jemma Sbeg?

  I would just choose the chapter that I felt I most wanted to write that day, until I ended up at the chapter at the very end that I least wanted to write, which ended up being the one on heartbreak. But how I would answer this question is that where you need to start is where you feel most called to start and most passionate to write about. What is the chapter, the section, the component of the book that you feel most exhilarated by? You know, I heard about this author through my friend Alex, actually, who runs Basic Bitch Book Club. And she was telling me how one of these authors, and she was telling me that one of the authors of her favorite book actually started

• 50:08Jemma Sbeg?

  writing the book at the end, like at, like in the last three chapters. So the last chapters that we read when we read that book were the first chapters she wrote. Because the story she was telling, the reason she wanted to tell it was because it had a specific ending that she really wanted to capture. And then she worked backwards from there. Some people like to begin at the very beginning. I don't think that's necessarily always the best way for everyone. Start where you feel most called to begin. And if you don't know where to start, start by just fleshing out some key ideas. Start by maybe even writing a mini chapter from someone else's perspective on the main character and what they look like.

• 50:54Jemma Sbeg?

  Someone once gave me this brilliant writing exercise. If you want to flesh out your main character or a character in your book more, imagine what someone would see or know about them from encountering them in a coffee shop. So write a mini chapter from the perspective of a third party, watching, learning, looking at your main character. It might not end up in the book. It probably won't end up in the book, but it will give you more of a, an idea of where to go from there and more of an inspiration. This next question I love, how to finish a draft. I just keep rewriting the first three chapters. Oof, I totally get this. If you're a bit of a perfectionist like myself,

• 51:35Jemma Sbeg?

  it can feel like you cannot move on from a chapter unless it is up to your incredibly high standards. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. I think it shows care and love and appreciation for your work. However, I do understand that it's frustrating and that if you have a book that's gonna end up being thirty chapters and you've only written three, you kinda wanna get the ball rolling. My biggest tip for this is to put those three chapters aside, put them in one document, start chapter four in a new document, so that there is not the pressure or the kind of urge to go back and scroll up a little bit and just start changing words here and there or, you know, finding synonyms or antonyms for this word or that word or changing very, very minor things.

• 52:21Jemma Sbeg?

  Pretend that you are starting the book from chapter four and start writing it from there. Another great way to basically force yourself to write is to put on a fifteen minute timer or a twenty minute timer and say, this does not have to be good. This doesn't have to even be comprehensible. I'm just gonna write for fifteen minutes and see what comes up and see what flows through me. I think the roadblock that you are facing is one of perfectionism and I also think it's one of a fear of failure, which often they go hand in hand. Giving yourself space and room for whatever you're writing to be imperfect, maybe not that great, will also provide you with a lot of freedom to just make mistakes

• 53:04Jemma Sbeg?

  and to make creative errors that actually end up being creative doorways. Here's our next question. I've always wanted to write, but I feel like no one cares about what I have to say. This is kind of similar to this question from Ella. How do you push through imposter syndrome? Will anyone read this? Maybe no one will read it. I do think people will read it firstly, I will say that. But maybe they won't. My question is why is that a bad thing? Why is it that every single form of creation has to receive outside acknowledgement and can't just be for our own, for, you know, the sake of it, for our own internal pleasure and enjoyment of the activity?

• 53:46Jemma Sbeg?

  That aside, because I know that's quite a nihilistic view of things and quite a pessimistic view, and maybe not for everyone. If you are thinking, why should I write a book? No one cares what I have to say. No one cares what anyone has to say until they say it. The question I always like to ask people is, why not you? Genuinely, why not you? And you might come up with a couple of reasons. All of those reasons are your self doubt trying to sabotage you. And when self doubt tries to sabotage you, it's actually trying to protect you. It doesn't want you to get hurt. It doesn't want you to feel embarrassed. It doesn't want you to feel rejected.

• 54:27Jemma Sbeg?

  And so it will keep you in the safest place, which is the place where you are doing nothing. Every single person, I think, who has written a book has thought, and I've definitely thought this, like, why am I doing this? No one cares what I have to say. No one's gonna buy a copy. Everyone's going to hate it. And then I just remind myself that if that's the case, I still got so much out of it up, up until this point. And everyone had to write their first draft. Everyone had to put out their first book. Every single person, every single author that you admire has had those same thoughts. And they still were committed to writing it when they were a nobody, when no one knew who they were. And their novels, their books, their manuscripts ended up changing lives.

• 55:10Jemma Sbeg?

  So I hope that helps you feel better about either alternative. So this final question is, was actually a really, really common one. How do you go about getting a publisher slash agent? What's the process like and what are the chances of being rejected? Oh, right, I'm not gonna lie. The chances of being rejected are quite high. However, rejection is a doorway. Rejection is redirection. Rejection is a mirror. Rejection is a motivator. Rejection is not something to be afraid of. Here's the other thing. You can get rejected by the same publishing house like six or seven times. Like, they might say, go away, fix this, bring it back. We still don't like it. Go away, fix this, bring it back.

• 55:51Jemma Sbeg?

  Just because something was rejected in its current form, doesn't mean it's gonna be rejected again. Doesn't mean it's gonna be rejected by someone else. There have been so many examples of authors who have gone on to write incredible books who have been rejected many, many times. And I'm sure those publishing houses were sitting there being like, oh. We really, we really screwed up. We really dropped the ball on that one. As long as you believe in yourself, I know that you are going to work hard and you are going to find new avenues to get your work out there. When it comes to finding a publisher, um, a couple of tips that I would give is go to heaps of industry events,

• 56:35Jemma Sbeg?

  um, cold email, ask other established authors or people that you know who have written books to read your manuscript. Try not to focus on needing a publisher to write, just write the thing. I do feel like having a book that's already written is perhaps a selling point because they can tell if they like it or not and they can kind of get a sense of where they might want to take that initial draft. And remember, there are so many ways to be published. I'd also say start submitting chapters to magazines, to journals, to literary magazines as well. Just try and get your work out there and know that the right people will find it.

• 57:17Jemma Sbeg?

  It might just not be your time now. It doesn't mean that your time isn't going to come. I think that's all we have time for today. Thank you so much, all of you, for being so invested as to make it this far into the episode. If you did make it this far, I want you to leave the name of the book that has changed your life. What is the book that you are so glad someone wrote and that it feels like they wrote it just for you? Because honestly, I need some reading recommendations. I am so sick of reading my own book. It feels like all I do is read my own book. Like I read it at events and I read it online and I read it out loud and I read it for the audiobook and I'm like, I'm sick of you.

• 57:57Jemma Sbeg?

  I don't want to look at you anymore. Just kidding. I love her so much, but I'm ready to read something else inspiring. I'm ready for a palate cleanser. I'm ready just to feel, you know. I'm ready just to see what is going on in other people's brains as delivered through their words. So leave a comment below and share this episode with someone who you believe might need it, might enjoy it, might love it, might appreciate these tips. Make sure you're following me on Instagram at that psychology podcast to ask future questions for future episodes. Finally, I can't leave without saying this. If you have the means, please consider buying a copy of Person in Progress. It would be greatly appreciated.

• 58:42Jemma Sbeg?

  Until next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle with yourself, and we will talk very, very soon.

• 58:55Jemma Sbeg?

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• 59:32Jemma Sbeg?

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• 1:00:09Jemma Sbeg?

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