6 Years Ago, He Bought His First Rental: Now He’s Doing 24 Deals a Year

Brett Hundley doesn’t want an employer or a nine-to-five job. Ever. At just 32 years old, he has already retired from one career and is now chasing the freedom and flexibility that real estate investing can provide. During his eight years as an NFL quarterback, Brett spent evenings after practice learning the ins and outs of real estate from teammates who had already discovered its wealth-building potential. Early on, he tried a little of everything—short-term rentals, new construction, and other investing strategies—before zeroing in on house flipping, which has since become his bread and butter. Brett says the skills he developed running an NFL offense directly translate to the real estate investing world, where he now manages contractors, deadlines, and budgets instead of playbooks. His goal for 2026? Complete 24 real estate projects. But he’s not staying busy just to pass the time post-football. Like most investors, he’s after true financial freedom—not just the income but the flexibility to spend more time with family, travel the world, and retire on his terms. In This Episode We Cover Brett’s journey from NFL quarterback to veteran house flipper How to find “great” deals in competitive markets with strong deal analysis Quitting the nine-to-five grind and “retiring” with real estate investments How to build out your own real estate investing team in any market Completing 24 real estate “projects” per year (without working long hours!) And So Much More! Check out more resources from this show on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BiggerPockets.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠h⁠t⁠t⁠ps://www⁠.biggerpockets.com/blog/real-estate-1273. Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dave Meyer?

  Don't want a boss or a day job deciding your future? What if you could ditch the nine to five for good and replace it with a business that gives you serious income and total control over your time? Today, you'll hear from someone who's actually doing it. At just 32 years old, Brett Hundley has already retired from one career and built a thriving real estate business designed around one goal: freedom. Not just money, but the ability to live life on his terms. Take that dream vacation and say yes to opportunities that most people can't. Brett's secret weapon is using the leadership skills he honed during his eight-year NFL

• 0:42Dave Meyer?

  career to build and manage teams, to run renovation projects day-to-day, and hit lofty goals like completing 24 deals per year. If you're ready to build a real estate business that doesn't just cover the bills, but actually funds the lifestyle you want, Brett will show you how to find your lane, scale from zero, and take control of your future.

• 1:10Dave Meyer?

  Hey, everyone. I'm Dave Meyer, Chief Investment Officer at BiggerPockets. We've got a great show for you today. It's an investor story with Brett Hundley. He's a former NFL quarterback turned Arizona real estate investor who's doing the exact type of deals that everyone in our community could also be doing. So let's jump in with Brett and hear what he's up to. Brett, welcome to the BiggerPockets Podcast. Thanks for joining us.

• 1:35Speaker 01

  Man, thank you for having me. This is a fun one.

• 1:37Dave Meyer?

  Yeah, this is gonna be a lot of fun. So tell us a little bit about yourself. What's your professional background? How'd you get into real estate?

• 1:42Speaker 01

  Man, I like to say I fell into real estate. But background, I played football, went from Chandler, Arizona, and then went to UCLA, played in the league for eight years as a quarterback. And then during my time, actually, while playing football, I had sort of got into real estate when I was in Green Bay. That's where I bought my first house. And that is essentially what got me into it. And then it wasn't until I got to Arizona, who I started sitting down with teammates of mine, Larry Fitzgerald. Devon Kennard is another big one and I grew up with Devon and then Prince Mukamara, who is another Arizona native.

• 2:15Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:15Speaker 01

  I used to sit down with them every day after practice. Prince was doing short-term rentals. Devon was doing long-term rentals and Larry was doing a whole bunch of stuff.

• 2:22Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 2:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, and picking their brain and then that's how I started buying my first short-term rental, then the first new bill.

• 2:27Speaker 02

  So you had like a little real estate club?

• 2:29Speaker 01

  Uh, no, 100%.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  That's pretty cool.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, 100%. That's how I fell into real estate.

• 2:33Speaker 02

  You know, I have a Prince Mukamara jersey.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  Do you really?

• 2:36Speaker 02

  Yes, I'm a Giants fan. He was our first-round draft pick.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  Yes, no way.

• 2:41Speaker 02

  I went to the opening game and bought it, still got it.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  And this dude, so Prince too, so he's from Arizona.

• 2:46Speaker 02

  Oh, really? I didn't realize that, okay.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  From Arizona, so it was me, him and Devon Kennard on the same team playing for the Cardinals. And Prince was doing short-term rentals and he had one day, I was like, dude, like I'm just sort of saving my money.

• 2:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:58Speaker 01

  Like, what are you doing? Because I was like, okay, maybe buying some rentals and stuff. And he was like, dude, like, check out the short-term rental. And he showed me all his numbers. He was like, and it was crushing. And I was like, all right, so I bought my first property like five minutes away from his.

• 3:08Speaker 02

  Really? Okay.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  And then, and then it started crushing it. And then Devon Kennard as well was doing a lot of long-term holds.

• 3:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  So I was running a lot from him. So man, just picking those guys' brains sort of got me into it. And then I sort of just took off running.

• 3:20Speaker 02

  You know, Devon's been on the show before. He's written a book for BiggerPockets. What do you think it is? There seems to just be this overlap between professional sports and real estate. Why do you think that is?

• 3:32Speaker 01

  Let me dispel this thing right now because people look at us and they're like, man, you guys have the access, can dump all this money into real estate. And honestly, like when you really look at the statistics of making it to the league, one, I mean, you're talking point 0002% of all athletes who try. But then once you make it, most NFL rosters are made up primarily of undrafted guys. So it's, and then when you, when you hear all these 100 million, 200 million dollar price points, it's not, it might be one or two guys on the roster.

• 4:00Speaker 02

  Right, yeah.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  And the rest are usually like at league minimum. And then if you do get a contract, most average are 2.3 years, 2.8 years.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 4:08Speaker 01

  That is a career. That's your average career, most guys.

• 4:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  And so that, that doesn't even get you to your pension, which is 3.3. Luckily, I was blessed to play eight years, so I had a great career. But a lot, most of us, if they make it, are going to play for 2.8 years and then have to figure out what's next.

• 4:23Speaker 02

  So is that kind of the mentality like when you talk about meeting with Prince and Larry and Devon, is that what you guys are thinking about and what, why you're starting to plan real estate?

• 4:33Speaker 01

  I sort of, like I said, I found a passion for it when I did the thing, did the property in Green Bay. And then I actually started outside of that in Newbuild. So I was right, yeah, I was right in Arcadia area and I had a friend of mine out here who had built the house I had bought and was living in out here. I found a house and I said, Hey dude, would you be cool to partner up? I found a good house I would love to tackle.

• 4:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  And so we toured to the studs and built up new and sold it. And, and that was when COVID happened too. So I, I mean, the city shut down everything. It was a, ended up making money, but like it was a two-year, three-year process. But I think a lot of the times when we get into the real estate space, I think for us it's just the process. Like if you do it right, it is a process. If you're flipping, if you, and that's sort of what we're used to. So I think that's some of the things we look for in other investments.

• 5:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's just kind of a math problem, right? I mean, there's process and you have to do the execution, but you can build a system to make it somewhat repeatable, at least.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it's almost like, like systems, like especially for me being a quarterback, my whole thought was like, I'm used to leading a team of receivers, knowing the offense, knowing sort of the whole play calls. I view real estate the same. It's putting a team together and then knowing what, you know, the triggers of each person is, and then also making sure we get to the end goal, which is creating this product and building this thing. And it's a system. So like, you know, once you do it once, I think a lot of us say, oh, okay. Like, you know, there was some challenges, but it's not the end of the world. Now let me repeat this, refine it, make it more efficient and keep it going.

• 6:02Speaker 02

  Awesome. Well, I want to talk to you a little bit more about the leadership part because I think that's super important for our audience here today. And let's talk more about your portfolio, but we got to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

• 6:14Dave Meyer?

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• 6:48Henry Washington?

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• 7:30Henry Washington?

  And because you're the sole manager, there's no hourly minimum to meet. That lets you use a cost segregation study to accelerate the depreciation and potentially write off over $100,000 against your income, even on your first rental. Add in cash back up to 13% of the home price, which exceeds $60,000 on some properties. With this massive cash back incentives, investors are seeing total returns up to 126%. New construction, A-class properties, and inventory is limited. Learn more at biggerpockets.com/retirement or text REI to 33777. Again, text REI to 33777. Quick word about a new pro perk you'll want to know about. Aven.

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• 9:00Henry Washington?

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• 9:44Speaker 02

  Welcome back to the Bigger Pockets Podcast. I'm here with Brett Hunley, talking about his transition from being an NFL quarterback to real estate investing. So it sounds like you got a little bit of influence. You said Prince Mukamara is doing short-term rentals. You did a little new build. You did a renovation. How do you think about your portfolio strategy when you really started to get into it?

• 10:05Speaker 01

  When I first started, did the property in Green Bay, but then I sat down and was sitting with Devon Kennard, Prince Mukamara, and Prince was doing short-term rentals out here. Devon was doing long-term holds in the Midwest. Larry, again, was sort of overarching, like making big investments and projects and stuff. And I had started with short-term rentals as a rental portfolio. And this, at the time, I do say I got lucky. This one, interest rates were like 2% or 3%. So I could probably shoot it and not miss. Yeah, I was like, I could shoot him not miss, honestly. And so I bought my first property right around the corner from Prince's short-term rental. And we would sit down every day after practice. He would sort of show me everything. He would show me the numbers and I just learned. And I just tried to soak it in. And same with Devon Kennard, he showed me a lot. And then from there, I bought one properties, started a management company as well.

• 10:48Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 10:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, keep it rolling. And then I bought another property, which I ended up living in. And then I bought another property.

• 10:54Speaker 02

  Short-term rental or long-term?

• 10:55Speaker 01

  All short-term rentals at first. And then from there, once I bought three, then I started my new build. And so I was sort of just jumping into things. I was like, okay, I like the cash flow that's coming from this. And then from there, once we did the new build and finished that, then that's when I sort of analyzed doing a new build, the money I made, the ROI and how long it took. And then I dumped into probably a Flip style property, but it was about a 1.5 million dollar resale. I bought probably like 900, sold it for like 1.4, 1.5. So it was a bigger investment. Yeah, a big swing. And but then I started, I started working my way down and seeing the price points of all these homes. So I did that. And then the next one I jumped into like buying at 350, selling for like,

• 11:38Speaker 01

  I just started seeing what worked and what was the best return on time on capital. And so I got to find like from the top to the bottom and the spread of each. And then I sort of found my niche and then just started rolling with that, honestly.

• 11:51Speaker 02

  And the niche is flipping?

• 11:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, to be honest, like I love new builds, no discredit to anybody who does all the new builds. But for me, like time wise, as far as return in and out on projects like in capital coming back.

• 12:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  I found, I found a true passion for flipping.

• 12:06Speaker 02

  That's really cool.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:07Speaker 02

  And I love what you were saying too about just thinking about efficiency because I think a lot of people here, oh, you could go out and flip a million dollar home, make a big profit, but you're also buying 350.

• 12:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 12:19Speaker 02

  So why would you spend your time doing the lower price home?

• 12:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, a good, a great friend who was, became a mentor of mine, but now is one of my best friends. Zachary keeps out here. His slogan, trash the cash, Zach. Love you, man. But he, he has been, he's probably one of the largest single family homeowners in Arizona. He's been doing flipping for 20 years and I sought him out and actually just wanted to learn from him as well. And, you know, he, I was telling him what I was doing and he was like, you know, the money I was making. He was like, dude, just try one of these. And I was like, all right, cool. Tried it. And I dang near made as much money as I did on the big projects. And I was like,

• 12:55Speaker 02

  And less risk, right?

• 12:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that's exactly what he was getting at. He was like, dude, your capital is being used. There's so much more risk. You do one of these and I like, I think actually one of the properties I did, bought it, I made like a hundred some about, it was just a quick flip.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  But I, I realized like, man, I don't, I don't have to take these big swings.

• 13:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  And risk all this when I can still do in this range and still make some decent money in it.

• 13:18Speaker 02

  So did that become your buy box after that? Or are you still kind of open to anything that makes sense?

• 13:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm honestly open to anything that makes sense. I think for myself, what I've tried to focus more of is just analyzing deals, you know, as sharply as I can, man, because especially in this Arizona market, like there's a lot of people doing it. And, um, you know, I, I've been just, it's not like I'm jumping at everything. So a lot of this stuff, most of the stuff I just pass on. But like if, if the deal's anywhere, it's coming from small, big, like if, if the opportunity is there and the risk is worth it as well, I'm, I'm sort of open for it.

• 13:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's good advice. You know, we have a mutual friend, James Danard, some often hosts on, on BiggerPockets, uh, who does the same thing. Like he takes these huge swings. He's flipping like a $6 million house in Newport Beach.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:03Speaker 02

  Is it cool?

• 14:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:04Speaker 02

  It looks insane. Yeah.

• 14:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:05Speaker 02

  He takes these massive swings, right? But he'll also buy stuff that's like 300,000 and it doesn't really make sense until you think about efficiency, return on time and return on capital. And just being open to anything that meets your underwriting numbers and not being too strict on your buy box.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:24Speaker 02

  Is that one of the ways you are competitive in Phoenix? Cause Phoenix, I mean, it's as hot a flipping market as I would imagine in the country, right?

• 14:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, saturated for sure.

• 14:33Speaker 02

  So how do you stand out?

• 14:35Speaker 01

  I think the biggest thing is just having that wider range buy box. Uh, and a lot of guys now that I'm trying to get my name out there a little bit more and people know I'm buying cash buyer and stuff like that. And I always throw that out there, cash buyer, if anybody's talking.

• 14:48Speaker 02

  Hit them up.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  But, um, you know, I think it is having that wide range, like I just like James and I, you know, I've been, uh, around him and been able to pick his brain and study him and watch what he does. But I think it is just a lot of guys I've noticed are sort of, and there's nothing wrong with it. They find their sort of sweet spot and they run with it.

• 15:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:06Speaker 01

  Me, I'm like, dude, if the deal is worth it, even if we're talking a million, two million, six million in James' case.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:11Speaker 01

  As long as the returns are there to outweigh the risk, just like if I'm buying a 300, 400,000 dollar house and doing that, like I'm completely open to it. And honestly, I've, I've, I like the less riskier ones.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. Right. I mean, if you can make as much money and less risk, why wouldn't you do that? That's a better deal. Buy the numbers. That is a better deal.

• 15:30Speaker 01

  One of the things too, that I think sticks out, especially as athletes and just general society. Everybody wants the big shiny like pride, home run, swing, the beautiful things. And I'm like, dude, like, you have a nice like pride, three, $400,000 house. Like it might not be the big multimillion dollar mansion, but like it still is a cash flowing entity. You can make money off of it and it's less risk.

• 15:49Speaker 02

  For sure. I mean, I would rather risk 50 and make a hundred than risk 200 to make 250. You know, like that's just the math, how, how it should work out. But I gotta ask you, man, you said you liked flipping and you're passionate about it. I just, I've done two now because James forced me to do it.

• 16:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:10Speaker 02

  I am on the fence of if I like flipping. I gotta be honest. What do you like about it?

• 16:15Speaker 01

  I, I have enjoyed the process of like seeing something completely rundown.

• 16:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:21Speaker 01

  And in a matter of a couple of months, like turning it into something beautiful, honestly. And I mean, it, it does come with the inherent risk of like getting into the property and finding things that you might not be ready for. But at the same time, like again, everything falls back to underwriting. If you underwrite it right, you sort of walk in, you know what you're looking at and you do the homework. Like I feel like you get a good understanding of some things. To be able to now say, I'm taking a bad property in my own stopping grounds where I grew up at.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:49Speaker 01

  You know, adding value. I think it's an awesome thing.

• 16:51Speaker 02

  I guess like the, one of the most underrated part of real estate investing is like you do provide value to your community. If you do it in the right way, there are some shady operators in real estate. Absolutely. I don't think you are.

• 17:03Speaker 02

  But I had good vibes.

• 17:04Speaker 01

  I want to make sure people get a good home.

• 17:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Right. And like you are restoring something and providing that, especially at those lower price points. Like some affordable housing is super cool.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:13Speaker 02

  To me, in my very limited experience as a flipper, so much of it is about leading a team. So you talked to them a little bit about that recently, but how has your experience as an athlete, literally a team player and as a quarterback in particular, sort of translated into your flipping career?

• 17:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. That has been the one thing that I think is the biggest, um, like I find the most joy in honestly, like I, I went from leading, offense, going out to the field, getting hit and trying to score some touchdowns to now. Doing the same, but like trying to build a property and um to in all transparency, you know, nothing's perfect. You know, you find people, you meet people, you meet contractors that you work with one time and you probably, you know, I've had experience where I don't work with them again, you know?

• 17:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  And I've went through multiple contractors, but I think finding like the right people to fit what I'm looking for. And and my biggest thing too is like the culture behind it. Like I want, I also do want people like to enjoy what they're doing. You know, like everybody's out here to make money, get paid and stuff. But at the end of the day, like you don't want people walking into a job sloppy, not caring about what they're doing. Like you you want people who actually enjoy what they're doing. And I think finding that team for me has been like the greatest thing. Because now like when I get a new project, I'm excited to send out a text like, all right, boys, we got another one. You know, and stuff like that. I think it's been fun for me to like just sort of swing by the project, see how things are going, you know, put up the the pictures, making sure they know whatever. And like, that's, that's the like, small joys that I get.

• 18:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:39Speaker 01

  And then to see it come together, you know, and it's not something I gotta be there every single day. But like, when you find the right guys, like, it makes the world's difference.

• 18:47Speaker 02

  I think this is such valuable advice or insights for our audience, because, you know, I haven't done a lot of flips. I've done a lot of burrs and renovations and that kind of stuff. And, you know, you don't think about culture, because they don't always work with each other. They work different businesses. But there is a culture of the job site, almost, where it's like, if you're the flooring guy, and you show up, and the electrician's sloppy.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:10Speaker 02

  And not, or grumpy, or not doing a good job. And you, as the operator, let that slide.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 19:17Speaker 02

  They might not put in their best effort. And so it's sort of on you to sort of create the standard.

• 19:22Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 19:22Speaker 02

  And the work environment, people want to be there, and they want to contribute a lot of success, whether you're renovating a bathroom or doing a whole flip.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:29Speaker 02

  That little difference in the culture you create will cascade probably throughout the whole project.

• 19:33Speaker 01

  Yes. And that's that, like, I always envisioned it like Seattle, Pete Carroll is a great example. Like, he had the best, one of the best culture programs. And like, that's also what I get to learn from and take what I'm trying to put together and building. But like Pete Carroll, you know, John Harbaugh, like, these guys at practice, like, it was, it was fun. Like, you enjoyed what you're doing while you're doing it. And, you know, there's been some times and programs when you're losing and stuff. You come in, and it might be dreary or whatever. But like, at the end of the day, like, as long as the culture, that you got music blasting in practice, like, I like walking into a job site, and I hear the music. I'm running around, said demo team is in there. I'm like, all right, let's, you know, like. I enjoy it, but that's like it's you should come in and like we're all in this to make money and enjoy what we're doing.

• 20:16Speaker 01

  But like, there has to be like a standard of saying, and it's a, it's a performance standard. So it's something where everybody knows like, hey, the music's going, we're all in here working, but like, we're all trying to get done what we need to in time, you know?

• 20:28Speaker 02

  Totally. Yeah. And if you don't have that and everyone's grumpy, it makes it harder to give feedback too. I think it's like, if you have the, you know, the ultimate, you're ultimately accountable for the job, right? Everyone's pissed. It's hard. They're not going to be receptive. If they're having fun, if they feel respected, if they feel like you've got their back and have their best interests at heart, when you put in a change order,

• 20:53Speaker 02

  they might not look at you like they want to kill you, you know? It'll actually be a little bit better.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  It's so true though, man. Like I, I think the, the craziest, the beautiful thing about it is like it's everybody, I want everybody to feel like it's a team. Like that's literally what it is. So, you know, if designer does put in a change order, I unfortunately have to deliver the message.

• 21:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  You know, but I want, I don't want people looking at me like, you know, I, I want to bring the energy. I want people to have fun.

• 21:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I love that. That's great advice. What role do you like playing on the team?

• 21:22Speaker 01

  I like being the, the manager.

• 21:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:25Speaker 01

  And, and what's cool about what I, I have built is, um, it's almost like a family affair. So like I, my mom by trade is an interior designer.

• 21:33Speaker 02

  Oh, cool.

• 21:34Speaker 01

  And my wife is an agent. So like it worked.

• 21:36Speaker 02

  Did you plan that?

• 21:37Speaker 01

  I didn't.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  That's just happened that way?

• 21:39Speaker 01

  It did, man. When I first started buying my properties, my mom, I, she's a flight attendant as well and does interior designing. Went to school for it and I was like, hey, like, can you just start doing my, uh, short-term rentals? She did kill those and then got, when I got into the building and the flipping, she then started doing those. And, uh, it sort of became this cool, like family team.

• 21:59Speaker 02

  That's awesome.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  And, uh, and yeah, didn't, didn't plan it, but I then I, in my position, I'm like, okay, well, like, I want it like, I, I'm not the guy who's going to be at the job site every day on people's butt. Like, I let people breathe and enjoy and do what they need to. But at the same time, it's like, hey, we need to get this done by then. And I, I want to make sure if I can get them as efficient as possible, I give them the schedule, I put up the photos. I say, hey, I got cabinets being delivered on Monday. When do you need this? Like I'm, I'm the middle man between all the contractors.

• 22:26Speaker 02

  Project management, a lot of that stuff.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  That's, that's where I found my sort of niche and like what I, what I like doing.

• 22:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, okay.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  Okay. Hey, we got flooring coming, cabinets delivered. When do you need this? I, I'll make it happen.

• 22:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. All right, Brett, we gotta take one quick break, but we'll be right back. Stay with us.

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• 27:19Speaker 02

  Welcome back to the BiggerPockets Podcast. We're here with investor, former NFL player Brett Hunley. Let's jump back in. Well, it's not all rainbows and butterflies. So what part do you dislike the most about the process?

• 27:31Speaker 01

  The thing I dislike most is when you get a call about some unexpected,

• 27:36Speaker 01

  something unexpected.

• 27:36Speaker 02

  Sitting down at dinner.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  Like I just recently, man, I was laughing with our contractor. We had, for the demo thing, we told them to cap the, when they're demo, cap the sort of plumbing fixtures. Sure enough, man, like the one of them had to miss it because like I walked in and like there was water everywhere.

• 27:52Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 27:52Speaker 01

  And like, I'm like, stuff like that, like, but you know, you take, you take it with what you get. And, but I would say probably the unexpected calls and then having to figure out their budgets and stuff. Like, that's, that's least favorite.

• 28:03Speaker 02

  It's a grind. Yeah.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  It is.

• 28:04Speaker 02

  But that's every real estate business. You know, you have to take the good with the bad. But you, it sounds like you found a way to minimize the stuff you don't like and to maximize the stuff you're enjoying.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 28:16Speaker 02

  Sounds like you have a great business going. What are your goals going forward?

• 28:20Speaker 01

  My big hairy audacious goals? So I wanted, I want to do 24 flips this year.

• 28:25Speaker 02

  Whoa, okay.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  It's a big hairy one. Yeah. And, and, and so when I say 24, I would say 24 projects. So when I say that too, that does include like me wholesaling deals now.

• 28:34Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 28:35Speaker 01

  So I got into that on the side and honestly, it was just a way for me to cut out the middleman and start like finding my own deals and hopefully find some better spreads.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  Cash buyer.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  There we go, cash buyer. Yeah. But I would love to do 24 this year and I'm on track.

• 28:48Speaker 02

  That's awesome.

• 28:49Speaker 01

  I'm rolling right now. But it is, but it's almost like you, like I, I, I want the challenge. Like it's, it's, it's, I forgot what coach said this, but it's like you change the mindset of like, I get to like, do this stuff rather than, you know, and like that to me is what drives me.

• 29:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a good way to frame it.

• 29:05Speaker 01

  And so if I

• 29:06Speaker 02

  You get to do 24 profitable projects?

• 29:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:10Speaker 02

  That's amazing.

• 29:10Speaker 01

  And so if, if that is my goal, and hopefully I can keep this up through the rest of the year and find more deals that better fit. But like, if I can just maintain that at the end of the year, I'll look back and I'll say like, I did that. And then, you know, I'm sure from there, we're going to increase the goals. But that's, that's where I want to shoot for.

• 29:26Speaker 02

  Is that like, did you come up with 24 because you feel like that's your max capacity?

• 29:30Speaker 01

  No, I, I, I wanted to just try to shoot for something. I wanted to think bigger than maybe doing two or three a year. Where I was probably at, especially while I was traveling and year stuff. And now that I'm here, I was okay. What, like, what is going to keep me every day waking up saying, I gotta do this, I gotta do that. And like push me to be uncomfortable, you know, I think that's the biggest thing.

• 29:50Speaker 02

  That would make me very uncomfortable.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  Hundred percent. Like, oh, I, there's been moments where I'm like, man, we got another, we're doing this?

• 29:56Speaker 02

  Why did I do this?

• 29:58Speaker 01

  But it's, it's been fun too, man. Like I, the, the, my biggest, the big goal that I really want to do is I want to be doing these projects, whether it be 24 or whatever a year, but I also do want to do one big bill, like a luxury, upper luxury brand new bill type thing. Or like a bigger, like a James six million dollar or four million dollar.

• 30:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:16Speaker 01

  And, and the reason being I wanted, I would love to do one of those and live in the house for two years.

• 30:21Speaker 02

  Oh, do a living flip?

• 30:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 30:22Speaker 02

  Oh dude.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  And then sell it, take it, marry it so I get to the capital gains, you know? So that's, I want to do one big project a year and like do that and then just have these rolling.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, that would be very fun. You get to live in tons of cool houses as well. Yeah. But you know, I'm curious like how you evaluate these goals, super ambitious and very impressive by the way. What are your lifestyle goals? Like what do you want your day to day to look like? Cause I'm, you know, it's tempting as a real estate investor to keep taking on more and more projects.

• 30:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:50Speaker 02

  Some people want the more passive side of things. How do you, how do you find that balance?

• 30:53Speaker 01

  So my biggest thing was freedom and like being able to go and me and my wife are huge travelers, huge travelers. So like, We ain't got no kids. We got one dog at 13 years old. So like, old man at this point.

• 31:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Um, for us, freedom is a big thing. We're heading out to Bali for three or four weeks. Like,

• 31:11Speaker 02

  Amazing.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  We want to be able to do that. We don't want to stop. Um, so I think having that flexibility of saying like, hey, we, I want, I don't want to get into something where like I, it's a nine to five.

• 31:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  I think that's the one thing I've always wanted to stay away from. I've always wanted something that also like I wake up enjoying, like I wake up excited.

• 31:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  Um, and I, I have loved real estate for that reason. Um, but then I, I think the biggest thing is really just finding passive income. So the end goal for me is really, once I get these, these are all operating businesses, operating cash. I want to then start deploying into passive.

• 31:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  Multi-families or whatever it is that I can now hold and then off start offsetting the, the mix. So that's, that's our future goals.

• 31:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. But you're trying to build up the equity and then by either own a multifamily or do passive or?

• 31:56Speaker 01

  So if I, if I can own and start acquiring multifamilies and my thought is using this strange strategy, if I have the crews who are building stuff like this and the flips, I can then say, okay, I want to buy a rundown eight unit that might not be managed as well. Or 16 or 32, you know, do this and do the same thing at a bigger scale. That's.

• 32:13Speaker 02

  The game right now. It's a good place to be right now. Yeah. It makes sense. You have the skills to do it for sure.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  And that's what, so me and my wife, our thought is like, once we can analyze and find like a 32 unit, like we're jumping.

• 32:24Speaker 02

  So you're telling me you get to, you get to.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  Do 24 flips a year and go to Bali for like four weeks at a time?

• 32:30Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 32:31Speaker 02

  You've killed it. Like that's, that's the dream, right? I mean, I know depending on your family situation, but it's not like you, you're getting to do something you're passionate about with work and it's supporting passions that you have outside of work. I mean, that's what we talk about on the show all the time. Trying to achieve that is really what everyone's after.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, that it's, it's been fun and like, it's like I, I embrace the challenge of all this stuff, you know? And what's crazy too is it's not like, you know, I, I'm seeing guys who've been doing this for 20 years, 15 years. And like, I, I feel like I'm just getting started and like, that's where I'm like, the most excited. Like I'm still learning. Like I, man, learning from you, all these guys, Devon Kennard. Like, I feel like I'm still getting going in this race. So like, it's just, it's more fuel to the fire for me that I get to continue learning from guys like yourself and, you know?

• 33:16Speaker 02

  I think it's the best way to succeed, right? Like a lot, you know, a lot of people get into this, myself included for financial freedom, you know? But it almost is tempting if you get into that mindset to like have one foot out the door. You're like, how quickly can I stop doing this?

• 33:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:31Speaker 02

  And I really feel like it's almost this like weird reverse psychology thing. If you commit yourself to being in it for longer, you almost achieve the financial freedom part faster. If you commit like, I enjoy doing this, I'm going to stay with it and just see where this goes. You'll probably get to quit sooner.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 33:49Speaker 02

  Most people don't wind up doing it, but like you'll get that faster than just thinking like, how fast can I get in and out of this, get rich quick kind of thing.

• 33:55Speaker 01

  And very true. And like, and honestly too, even when we were talking off set a little bit, I am curious like, cause I, again, I always love learning, but like, have you built enough to where you're like, that is like a true passive type of thing?

• 34:06Speaker 02

  Well, what I've done is I've actually sold a lot of my, not all of them. I still own a bunch of active real estate, but we were talking before the show, I moved to Europe. I sold a decent amount and I've put a lot of it into passive real estate. So I do a lot of multifamily syndications.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  Got you.

• 34:21Speaker 02

  I actually think that industry has gotten a bad rap, but it's, it's starting to get good again.

• 34:25Speaker 01

  Got you.

• 34:25Speaker 02

  And do some private lending as well. So between those things, I probably could retire, but I haven't because I like working.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:34Speaker 02

  And I like, I like dabbling. I've still selling and buying stuff like I like doing it, but I am trying to, I've told our audience, like my goal for the next two, three years is to get to what I would call like our, my like end game portfolio.

• 34:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:47Speaker 02

  Which is kind of what you're talking about getting to eventually is like, how do I buy a couple of small multifamily, mid-sized multifamilies, solid, recently built, great neighborhoods, load LTV, you know, 50% down on something like this, and that's my life. And I'll still do stuff, but like, I know that I can fall back on that forever. So I'm trying to just reposition my assets into that. That's kind of where I'm at.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  See, that's cool, man. I think that's the, I think that's the cool thing about real estate, especially coming from a football background. We know we can't play football for the rest of our life, but like real estate, it's sort of like golf. You can play for the rest of your life and just have, have fun doing it, man. Like that's what's cool. And then it only gets better over time, you know? That's, that's what's political.

• 35:24Speaker 02

  That is really the nice thing.

• 35:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:26Speaker 02

  Well, Brad, it's been so much fun. Thank you so much for joining us here on the BiggerPockets Podcast. We appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me, man. I appreciate this. And thank you all so much for listening to this episode of the BiggerPockets Podcast. I'm Dave Meyer. We'll see you guys next time.

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