Olivia Cooke

Olivia Cooke is here! She joins Josh on the podcast at last to talk about HOUSE OF THE DRAGON, Steven Spielberg, her bad Star Wars audition, and her little production company that could SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENTS! 6/24 -- Millie Bobby Brown -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 1:00Josh Horowitz?

  What's the worst noted director has ever given you?

• 1:02Speaker 03

  Be more magic.

• 1:05Speaker 03

  Straight off the top of the dome then, be more magic. Traumatized. I was like, what do you mean? He's like, be more magic. I was like...

• 1:12Josh Horowitz?

  That's amazing.

• 1:15Josh Horowitz?

  Ta-da.

• 1:17Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. That was hard. That was a hard one.

• 1:21Speaker 04

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins.

• 1:29Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy Sad Confused. Today on the show, Olivia Cook, for the first time on the podcast. She's talking me, Earl and the dying girl, Ready Player One, and of course, the new season of House of the Dragon. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out the pod. Remember to hit that subscribe button, whether it's on YouTube, Spotify, however you're doing it, you know what to do. Before we get to Olivia, some quick reminders, as always, patreon.com/happy sad confused. That's where you can get the early access, the discount codes, you can ask questions, get autographed merch, all sorts of fun stuff. We've been doing some live events recently. We had Matt Smith on recently at 92nd Street Y. And we have in just a couple of days, if you're listening or watching this right as this comes out,

• 2:14Josh Horowitz?

  we're doing a live event, June 24th with Millie Bobby Brown and tickets are still available. Another first time guest on the pod. The information is in the show notes, but it's also on our Patreon, patreon.com/happy say confused. Okay. So the main event today, as I said, it is Olivia Cook, who surprisingly has never done the podcast. She's been on my radar for a long time. The first time I chatted with her was for that festival hit, Me, Earl and the Dying Girl. She was so great in that one. But following her throughout her career, of course, Ready Player One was a big one, that huge Spielberg film Bates Motel back in the day. Thoroughbreds, Sound of Metal. She always delivers. And as you'll be able to tell from this conversation, as I say to her,

• 2:55Josh Horowitz?

  she's just kind of a real human being, which yeah, most of the people I talk to are, but she especially has always just read to me as someone with a good head on their shoulders, a self-deprecating wit, a good attitude. She takes the work seriously, but not herself seriously. So, um, yeah, a lot of fun moments in this conversation to look back at some near misses, some auditions that went awry, some Star Wars talk, of course. Yeah, this is a fun one. I'm really thrilled that it finally happens. So without any further ado, and a quick reminder, as always, you know, you gotta check out House of the Dragon. Not that you need to know, but it's on HBO now. The first episode just dropped. I've seen the first two. It's fantastic. Um, yeah. In the meanwhile, enjoy this conversation. No spoilers in this.

• 3:37Josh Horowitz?

  Just enjoy it for its own conversation sake, me and Olivia Cook. Olivia.

• 3:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:42Josh Horowitz?

  Liv, I guess.

• 3:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, Liv. You can call me Liv.

• 3:45Josh Horowitz?

  Anybody call you Olivia? Like, is it your mom? Like, if you're in trouble?

• 3:48Speaker 03

  When I'm getting told off. Sometimes, sometimes it's Olivia. But I like Liv. Liv's nice.

• 3:54Josh Horowitz?

  We're gonna go with Liv.

• 3:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, Liv's familiar, Liv's colloquial.

• 3:59Josh Horowitz?

  I would say our history, like, we don't have like a lot of history, but I feel like

• 4:03Speaker 03

  It's long.

• 4:04Josh Horowitz?

  It's a long history. I have some very happy, like, you always have registered to me as like a real human being.

• 4:11Speaker 03

  Thank God.

• 4:12Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, that is a huge compliment.

• 4:14Speaker 03

  Okay, good.

• 4:14Josh Horowitz?

  Because, you know, some folks are not.

• 4:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, and we've met them.

• 4:18Josh Horowitz?

  We've met them. We're gonna name names at the end of the podcast.

• 4:21Speaker 03

  Oh, I will. I'll name a shame.

• 4:23Josh Horowitz?

  We met, I think, on me at Earl and the Dying Girl.

• 4:25Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 4:26Josh Horowitz?

  And then I have this vivid memory that you will not remember because it was like literally six seconds. I remember walking by you at Sundance and there was a film that had screened there and I said, I saw your film. And I mentioned the film and you, without missing a beat set, you apologized. You said, oh, I'm so sorry.

• 4:41Speaker 03

  What film was it?

• 4:42Josh Horowitz?

  Should we, I mean.

• 4:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, go on, you can cut it out.

• 4:44Josh Horowitz?

  It was Limestone Golem.

• 4:47Josh Horowitz?

  Which was a film.

• 4:48Speaker 03

  Hey, it was a film. It was a film that happened. Bill Nighy, fantastic. I love him.

• 4:52Josh Horowitz?

  Who doesn't love him?

• 4:52Speaker 03

  Love him. Sam Reid.

• 4:53Josh Horowitz?

  Sam Reid.

• 4:54Speaker 03

  Also great. Douglas Booth. Yeah.

• 4:58Josh Horowitz?

  Some come, some go.

• 5:00Speaker 03

  It happened.

• 5:00Josh Horowitz?

  We all try our best.

• 5:02Speaker 03

  We do. We all, we all give it a hundred percent.

• 5:05Josh Horowitz?

  Please, I spent 20 minutes talking to your buddy Matt Smith about Morbius. So you're fine.

• 5:11Josh Horowitz?

  You seen Morbius yet? You should check it out.

• 5:12Speaker 03

  I saw it.

• 5:13Josh Horowitz?

  You did? You saw it?

• 5:14Speaker 03

  I saw it and I just haven't brought it up.

• 5:15Josh Horowitz?

  What a good friend you are that you saw.

• 5:17Speaker 03

  He's fantastic.

• 5:19Josh Horowitz?

  Of course he is.

• 5:19Speaker 03

  He's always fantastic.

• 5:24Josh Horowitz?

  I was asking you how the, the tour is going.

• 5:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:26Josh Horowitz?

  Good, good part about House of the Dragon. A, it's House of the Dragon, it's Game of Thrones. It kind of sells itself by this point.

• 5:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:33Josh Horowitz?

  Be there a lot of you and spread the wealth a bit.

• 5:36Speaker 03

  Yes. We can all just like do our bit.

• 5:39Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 5:40Speaker 03

  Means there's less pressure on oneself.

• 5:43Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 5:44Speaker 03

  And then we can honk you.

• 5:46Josh Horowitz?

  Do you feel, do you feel at this point, I don't know, because you've been in all manner of film and TV, some register, some are as big as they come. Ready Player One, gigantic. The world is paying attention. And then there are small films, Sundance films, that like you struggle to get any attention. Like, I guess there's like a yin and the yang. There's like a great, like, oh, people are paying attention to this. House of the Dragon.

• 6:09Speaker 03

  House of the Dragon, yeah.

• 6:10Josh Horowitz?

  There's also like probably a, like, a nice, like, oh, it doesn't matter what I say for the small film. You know what I mean? Like.

• 6:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like, it's like, yeah, the, the train has left the station with House of the Dragon. You know, I don't need, I don't need to do anything, really. This is all just like, you know, vain, vain self-promotion, you know?

• 6:32Josh Horowitz?

  The brand.

• 6:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:33Josh Horowitz?

  Not the actor.

• 6:34Speaker 03

  The brand, yeah. Olivia cut the brand. Yeah, stocks are up.

• 6:38Josh Horowitz?

  I'm investing all my money.

• 6:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I don't know about that. But, but yeah, with, with like independent film, you, you, you, you want to do everything you can for those.

• 6:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, especially the ones you believe in.

• 6:52Speaker 03

  Stories. Yeah. And, and you know, you, you, you want to like literally stand on your soapbox and, you know, hold the poster high above your head and being like, please come one, come all.

• 7:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 7:01Speaker 03

  Um, but this doesn't need that.

• 7:03Josh Horowitz?

  Don't need that, guys. We're fine. It's all gravy now.

• 7:07Speaker 03

  I think so. I hope so.

• 7:09Josh Horowitz?

  I do feel like there's goodwill. I think like you've been kind of already even just in two plus seasons now, you've kind of like gone through the arc of like first season trepidation, but people got excited and I think it had a good reception. Season two, maybe like a little divisive, there's a little bit. And now I feel like I've seen the first two episodes, the word out, there are good vibes out there for season three.

• 7:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I think so. I've heard good stuff. Um, you can sort of tell when you're being interviewed, you know, you can sort of, you can sense a lukewarm reception and you can sense the, you know, the genuinely excited reception. And I think that it has been the latter this time around. So that is.

• 7:50Josh Horowitz?

  That's a relief.

• 7:50Speaker 03

  Nice. I don't have to sort of like, you know, petition.

• 7:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah. So for you at this point, what are, let's rank the most stressful parts of the job. Is it receiving the job and knowing the mountain you have to climb?

• 8:05Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 8:05Josh Horowitz?

  Is it stepping on the set first day? Is it talking about it and then feeling, I've heard you talk about the self-loathing that comes with doing press sometimes?

• 8:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:15Josh Horowitz?

  So are these all?

• 8:16Speaker 03

  They're all completely different. And I wouldn't say they're hardships.

• 8:20Josh Horowitz?

  No, we're not coal miners here. But it's okay. Yeah.

• 8:23Speaker 03

  Um, poor me. Um, but I, uh, yeah, the, the trepidation and the dread that comes with getting the call that you've got the job.

• 8:32Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 8:32Speaker 03

  The sort of split second elation, which then quickly moves into something a little bit more insidious and like white knuckle.

• 8:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 8:42Speaker 03

  That's that's its own thing because then you sort of start to second, well, I do anyway. I start sort of second guess myself and second guess their decisions like, oh, God, I'm gonna get to set. And they're just gonna see that I can't do this and I'm terrible and they're gonna wanna recast. Or we'll do the the read through and everyone's terrible in a read through.

• 8:57Josh Horowitz?

  Right. Then you start to do the math. Once you start shooting, you're like, how long can I shoot before I know they can't recast?

• 9:02Speaker 03

  Yes, because I've been on films before where like two weeks in, someone's gone and another person's in their place. And it's like, no one is safe. No one is safe, even when, you know, contracts are signed and it's, yeah, it's a, you're on sort of like unsafe footing. So that's its own thing. I'd say like

• 9:26Speaker 03

  the sort of coming back season after season, the sort of emotional and mental stamina that you have to have. And, you know, you've got to imbue the season with as much energy as you gave the first and

• 9:41Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 9:41Speaker 03

  sort of trying to mentally follow your arc, even though it's been at this point, since we've been filming like five years. It's it's also like quite tricky.

• 9:51Josh Horowitz?

  They're very long shoots. How long are you shooting each season?

• 9:54Speaker 03

  Seven months.

• 9:55Josh Horowitz?

  Seven months?

• 9:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:56Josh Horowitz?

  As I understand it, you're not necessarily shooting like episode one followed by episode two.

• 9:59Speaker 03

  No, no, no.

• 9:59Josh Horowitz?

  A bit of that shooting, right?

• 10:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, all over the place.

• 10:02Josh Horowitz?

  And so that's a mind.

• 10:04Speaker 03

  That's a minefield. Yeah, you you'll, we have a wonderful script advisor Tess and I sort of do go to her and I am just like Tess, like emotionally, where am I? Where am I?

• 10:13Josh Horowitz?

  Give me a number. Where am I?

• 10:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly, exactly. Seven. Great.

• 10:17Josh Horowitz?

  Got it.

• 10:18Speaker 03

  So she's she's really, she's really good. I do rely on her quite a lot just because it's, you know, it is so wide ranging and it is a bit discombobulating at at times. And then when you add the multiple seasons and the years on top of that. And and then as a person, like, I started this job, well, I got the job when I was twenty six and I'm thirty two now. So that's like a lot of life that's been lived. I'm not the same person as I was then. But then trying to like lock in to that is also like its own challenge.

• 10:51Josh Horowitz?

  And can we talk about like, to get a little meta, the media side of it, this kind of a thing? Because you've talked before about your relationship with Instagram, with Twitter back in the day, like with press. How do you, what are the coping mechanisms? How are you you allow grace to yourself to kind of like? Deal with, has to be dealt with and not nitpick everything you say and.

• 11:14Speaker 03

  It's hard. I think I've gotten better.

• 11:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:17Speaker 03

  Um, I have had a sort of, not even a love hate, but I think I've hated it all the way. But like, I've had some sort of relationship with Instagram. Where I didn't have it, then I got it. And now I, now I've gotten rid of it again, just because I'm like, I don't think I'm resilient enough as a person to have access to like all these people and their opinions.

• 11:47Speaker 03

  And I don't think anyone is actually. I think it's.

• 11:50Josh Horowitz?

  The long-term repercussions of this, I mean, the short-term repercussions we're seeing, but like the long-term, we're all.

• 11:54Speaker 03

  We're fucked.

• 11:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:55Speaker 03

  We're fucked. And just from being off of it, I'm like, oh my God, I've got my like, my mind back. And also like my, I feel like so much more pure of thought. I'm like, oh, I'm not regurgitating something that I've seen in like a clip.

• 12:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 12:11Speaker 03

  This is, this is actually what I think, you know?

• 12:13Josh Horowitz?

  Before, this is the guy that's still in there and this is the after.

• 12:17Speaker 03

  Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no.

• 12:20Josh Horowitz?

  And so it's so hard to get out. It's, it's, it's tough. It's tough in there.

• 12:24Speaker 03

  It's hard also when, when you've got a podcast and this is your main area of promotion as well. Whereas I feel like, you know, I'm just like looking at my publicist like, um, I think I'm okay at the mo to not have this extra bit that I have to sort of feed as well. Cause I think personally it's too much of a tax.

• 12:45Josh Horowitz?

  Has like any external, whether it's a review, a comment, has it ever affected a performance? Has it ever got in your head enough that's so, oh, I need to change even like a facial expression, an approach to a character or?

• 12:59Speaker 03

  No, I'm aware of like.

• 13:02Speaker 03

  There's been commentary about like my like Alison like facial expression where she looks like worried, but that's just me. Like that's just what my face sort of does when I'm like in distress. And you know, Alison's in distress a lot of the time. And unless I got, you know, um, sort of irrevocable plastic surgery, I like, I can't do anything about, I can't do anything about it. Um, so no, no. And also I don't watch the monitor. I do want to just be as free and as like, you know, unburdened by my appearance as possible on set.

• 13:44Speaker 05

  We'll be right back with more Happy Said Confused.

• 13:50Speaker 00

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• 14:21Speaker 06

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• 14:53Josh Horowitz?

  What is the level of professionalism on season three of House of the Dragon versus season one? Did it start professional? How quickly did it evolve?

• 15:01Speaker 03

  You know what? We had, it devolved pretty quickly. We had Reece Evans, who is the naughtiest mischief maker on the planet.

• 15:11Josh Horowitz?

  Wish this man did press. Because the legends of Reece, he seems like, everybody says he is like anarchy. He is like the Joker in.

• 15:20Speaker 03

  They don't make them like him anymore. And I like, it just, you know, the little glint in his eye would set me, Matt, Fabian off. And I'm such a corpse and I do, I do attach myself to like the naughty boys on set as well. I do, I do love them. I do love them so much. And so like.

• 15:44Josh Horowitz?

  So you give them, you're enabling them. You're laughing and they feed on that.

• 15:47Speaker 03

  Enabler. Yeah, I really am. Just like, do it, do it again. Go on, Adaya, you know?

• 15:53Josh Horowitz?

  Totally.

• 15:55Speaker 03

  So yeah, it evolved very quickly. But you know, I think for the most part, we were a very professional bunch. But those long shooting days, and when you're shooting a sequence for a week, two weeks, lunacy does sort of penetrate. So you have to do anything to sort of like reconnect with reality. And if that means, you know, having a laughing fit to sort of break the tension, I think that's healthy.

• 16:23Josh Horowitz?

  I think so. Why be miserable? Seven months, seven months of your life, you want to be miserable?

• 16:27Speaker 03

  I can't, I actually can't. I can't. And also like, you know, Alison's track record is a very depressive one.

• 16:34Josh Horowitz?

  Live in that headspace too much.

• 16:36Speaker 03

  I can't do it. I need the light.

• 16:37Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Don't DDL this. Don't Daniel Day Lewis this. You can't.

• 16:41Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 16:43Josh Horowitz?

  Have you worked with that type of, I mean, we all DDL, though, I mean, please, but you have. Now I need to go back into the filmography. I'm sure I could figure it out.

• 16:51Speaker 03

  I'm not gonna name it. I'll tell you after. It's just.

• 16:54Josh Horowitz?

  So what? Like, I got it. Okay.

• 16:58Speaker 03

  But you but it's like, you know, Kristen Stewart did this fabulous, um, I think it was the New York Times interview. Where she was saying, you know, the craft of acting is a very like unmasculine place to live in.

• 17:12Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 17:13Speaker 03

  And so, you know, mainly men have to affect strife and, um, you know, anger and violence to sort of justify that making art and making films is is a very vulnerable place.

• 17:31Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it's also a selfish act. It's like it's for yourself, not for your co-stars.

• 17:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:37Josh Horowitz?

  It can it can it can bring others down and make it an uncomfortable experience.

• 17:41Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 17:42Josh Horowitz?

  The whole point is to have everybody in a relaxed state where they can be free.

• 17:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, let's just connect. Like, let's go on this journey. Like, it's gonna take us on like so many different wild

• 17:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 17:52Speaker 03

  turns if we just trust in what we're making here.

• 17:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 17:56Speaker 03

  Because I know that you've gone home, looked in the mirror, and you've already decided everything that you wanna do.

• 18:01Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 18:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, I find it I find it very exhausting and not fun, you know.

• 18:07Josh Horowitz?

  It's also interesting because I've heard you talk about like, you know, th- there's all sorts of levels of of actor actors in this show where they've like, you know, I'm sure there are Rada Train, there are people that have gone the whole the whole schooling, tons of theater experience and whatever. And like, was there any like, early on, whether it's even House of the Dragon or other other gigs, like where you felt an insecurity that you didn't have the training, you didn't have that kind of training on set.

• 18:34Speaker 03

  For sure. I think I still have it now where I feel sort of like vocally unprepared and not quite tuned. Um, and my sort of knowledge of. The the classics and theatre is um very limited compared to people that have been to drama school and I'm I'm actively giving myself sort of a theatre education. Um, but yeah, I still brush up against that. That's my own like chip on my shoulder. Oh, owl.

• 19:07Josh Horowitz?

  I had to mention, we have an owl on here.

• 19:08Speaker 03

  We have an owl in here.

• 19:10Josh Horowitz?

  It's sort of the mascot of Happy Sec, but that's okay.

• 19:13Speaker 03

  Um, and and yeah, I think I'd come in and to auditions or to onto sets and there would be a shorthand because they it's like, you know, people that went to Eton or Harrow.

• 19:26Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 19:26Speaker 03

  Um, you know, their way of talking or undercutting like social awkwardness is to ask what school you went to. And it's sort of the same with drama school as well. And then there's that immediate point of reference, which I just didn't have at all.

• 19:43Josh Horowitz?

  You you you did you have any chip on your shoulder when you didn't get in? Because you wanted to go to you wanted to go to RADA?

• 19:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I got. Yeah, I got to the the fi- I did the final round and then didn't get in. But then I got the lead in the movie.

• 19:57Josh Horowitz?

  Like, guys, so.

• 20:01Josh Horowitz?

  Who's the winner here?

• 20:02Speaker 03

  But I I did have this thing of like, oh, no, this is not the way it's supposed to be. I'm supposed to go to drama school. I'm supposed to learn my craft. And then do it. But I, you know, I couldn't turn down a career that was being offered. Um.

• 20:16Josh Horowitz?

  Sweet. Which which gig was that? Was that?

• 20:17Speaker 03

  It was The Quiet Ones, which is with it was a horror with Sam Claflin and Jared Harris.

• 20:25Speaker 03

  Strange film.

• 20:27Josh Horowitz?

  We've all got a few on the resume. It's okay.

• 20:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, but fun. And I feel like I learnt so much so quickly. And I was this, you know, typecast, this fourteen, I think I was fourteen, fourteen year old girl who is possessed.

• 20:44Josh Horowitz?

  Rite of passage for everybody.

• 20:46Speaker 03

  Exactly, exactly. So, you know, didn't couldn't didn't and couldn't sniff at that.

• 20:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Did you? Were you still working odd jobs at that point? Like, did you have side? No. You had doubled down. You were this.

• 21:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, I'd worked from fourteen at a um hair salon and then a beauty salon. And then I worked in a cafe called Peace, Love and Cake.

• 21:11Speaker 03

  And I was making the cappuccinos and bussing tables. And then I got my first job on a BBC show called Blackout, where I played Christopher Eccles's daughter.

• 21:23Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 21:24Speaker 03

  And I think I-

• 21:25Josh Horowitz?

  Surrounded by Doctor Who's all your life.

• 21:26Speaker 03

  Yes, I know. When is it my time?

• 21:30Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, they're looking for a new doctor.

• 21:33Speaker 03

  Are they? And then I was, for some reason, I was in a cemetery. I think I was overdosing, I can't remember, they were sick next to me. And I remember texting my boss being like, hey, this night shoot is going late, so. Never said those words before in my life, this night shoot's going late. So I don't know if I'll be able to make it into work tomorrow, but I've got an M to cover my shift. And she messaged back, don't bother coming in tomorrow or ever again. I'll give last week's wages to M. And that was the last time I had like a normal job.

• 22:12Josh Horowitz?

  There you go. All right, we're going to come back to that part, but let's a little bit more on House of the Dragon before I forget. So I'm just curious, like, when you, when this came around, I mean, a big opportunity, a very exciting opportunity. It's got a built in audience, you know, the eyeballs are going to be there. That being said, like, being the kind of optimist slash pessimist, like, did you, what were the concerns? Like, did you have major questions, given anything that was attached to Game of Thrones?

• 22:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think we, up until that point, I, I felt like I had, had a really

• 22:48Speaker 03

  lovely career where I was able to, you know, stretch myself creatively and also avoid, you know, fame. I think I'd have, yeah, I'd have managed-

• 23:02Josh Horowitz?

  You had a nice, sweet, kind of sweet spot.

• 23:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:04Josh Horowitz?

  Doing some indies, you're doing the Ready Player Ones, you're-

• 23:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:08Josh Horowitz?

  People know you in the industry, but you're not necessarily, like, you don't have that level that is going to impact you.

• 23:11Speaker 03

  Exactly, like, industry, like, I was well liked, but I, I had this anonymity, which I, you know, loved and cherished and-

• 23:21Speaker 03

  And yeah, that was a big um concern that that my life would would change. But then I realized I'd actually don't like to go out and I don't like apart from like when I have to do press like I'm I don't like to be seen or go to like parties or do anything that I don't absolutely have to um so.

• 23:43Josh Horowitz?

  Safe place. You're speaking my language. Yeah.

• 23:46Speaker 03

  So like actually my life hasn't really changed that much. Maybe there's a bit of like.

• 23:50Josh Horowitz?

  Can't recognize you if you're hiding in your living room.

• 23:52Speaker 03

  Exactly, exactly. Unless they're peeping through the window, which yeah, scary actually um but I yeah, I apart from when the the show comes out or a show is coming out and there's just a bit more awareness, you're in the zeitgeist, I guess, a little bit more. There's maybe more people recognizing you on the street or on the tube, but apart from that, it's fine.

• 24:19Josh Horowitz?

  Did you know going in the age discrepancy that there would be between you and your sons on the show?

• 24:24Speaker 03

  No, not a when I found out that Tom Glyncony was like auditioning for my son, I was like, what? I was like, are they are they gonna like recast Alison again? And like like do another age jump like how's this gonna work?

• 24:42Josh Horowitz?

  Where are you at with it now? They're wonderful actors.

• 24:44Speaker 03

  Know how no, I love that. God, I love love them with all my heart. I think spiritually, me and Tom are related. Um. It's odd, isn't it? I I feel many things about it. I feel like, God, is this just like the industry? Is this just Hollywood? They don't want to see women age? You know, I think it's a it's a it's a big leap for the audience to make. Um. Or maybe I'm just a fantastic actor.

• 25:15Josh Horowitz?

  Let's go with that. Let's go with that.

• 25:18Josh Horowitz?

  Do you ever, you famously, I think you first auditioned for Rhaenyra, right?

• 25:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:22Josh Horowitz?

  So when you're looking at Emma in a scene, are you ever like, you're doing great, but I could have really nailed this scene?

• 25:28Speaker 03

  I think my wanting Rhaenyra initially was I was desperate to be blonde. I was just desperate, I really, like, it was so vain. I was like, I want to wear that wig.

• 25:42Josh Horowitz?

  Seriously? That was a consideration?

• 25:44Speaker 03

  Yes. I was just like, I've never been blonde.

• 25:48Josh Horowitz?

  How would be iconic.

• 25:49Speaker 03

  It was such a shallow thought, but then when I started auditioning for Alison, I was like, oh, like.

• 25:57Josh Horowitz?

  When you auditioned, did you have the platinum blonde? Like, did they give you a wig?

• 26:00Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no. No, it was, it was locked down. So it was just me and my sort of like crude lighting setup.

• 26:10Speaker 03

  But yeah, no, when I got the audition for Alison and started auditioning for her, I was like, oh, this is, yeah, this is who I'm sort of meant to play.

• 26:18Josh Horowitz?

  And what are, Emma's done the podcast before, we all adore Emma. Obviously, everybody loves you two together. We've talked about this before, but like vibes again, like, has that relationship off camera evolved and helped the on camera relationship, you think, by season three?

• 26:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think it has. I think we've just got a shorthand and the relationship is already embedded, which, you know, chemistry is like such a mystical thing that you can't sort of bottle or recreate. And you can try and act it, but it's hard when you're, when you don't actually have that in real life. Like, I can try and have chemistry with this, like, crystal here and like do an okay job, but it makes my life easier when we actually have real, like a real bond and we really get on. And I am so excited about their performance and what they're gonna do. And it's so exciting and, and,

• 27:17Speaker 03

  and it makes me react in a different way. And we really can play in those moments and it's safe and we trust each other.

• 27:24Josh Horowitz?

  It must be, yeah, given all that exciting when you come to a script and you see, because when these scenes happen, they're always, the writers deliver. There's always something really juicy.

• 27:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, we're very lucky when they do write Rhaenyra and Alicent scenes. It's like, all the focus is just turned onto that scene. The tension is built and there's so much that is unsaid. And it's all in the sort of like subtlety and the subliminal messages. And also with the direction, like it's, it's, it's us two, you know, trying to speak desperately to the, to the kid we once knew.

• 28:08Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 28:09Speaker 03

  You know?

• 28:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 28:10Speaker 03

  But there's just so much artifice in the way now. Yeah.

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• 29:25Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so we did jump ahead a little bit into kind of like when you started to kind of the career started to take off, but let's go back even further. As a kid, I know you started to act around like eight. It's mostly just like school stuff, musicals, that kind of a thing.

• 29:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. After school club called Oldham, where I'm from, Oldham Theatre Workshop, where like so many amazing actors have been, like Joe Gilgan, Saran Jones. Yeah, I think Anna Freel went there as well. Yeah, just like a lot of really good like northern British actors.

• 29:58Josh Horowitz?

  Was, so no acting, no serious arts in the family, from what I gather?

• 30:03Speaker 03

  No, my dad loves karaoke. So, yeah, so I think he's like, she got it from me.

• 30:09Josh Horowitz?

  So what did they make of it when you started to like go from recreational to kind of like showing signs that this was going to be serious? Were they

• 30:18Josh Horowitz?

  views, supportive?

• 30:19Speaker 03

  They were really supportive. Like they, they would drive me to auditions in Manchester with like local casting aid, like directors and my aid, like my local agency that I was with up there. They were really supportive, although my mum, when I was out of work between my first proper job and my second, there were two, I did two BBC dramas back to back and there was maybe a gap of like three weeks in the middle, a short amount of time in this business.

• 30:50Josh Horowitz?

  I know, please.

• 30:51Speaker 03

  But my mum was like, so what are you gonna do then? Are you just gonna sit on your, sit on your bum all day long? What is this? 99% of actors are out of work, 99% of the time, Olivia, what are you going to do? And I was like, I will, I'll, and I think for her, like I dropped out of school. There was no backup.

• 31:06Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 31:06Speaker 03

  I had a GCSE education, which is like the exams that you do at 16, which don't really amount to anything. And so she was coming from a very concerned place of like, yeah, you did one job. But.

• 31:21Josh Horowitz?

  We're not there yet.

• 31:21Speaker 03

  You wouldn't, would not, and I was eighteen and thought, oh, this is it.

• 31:27Josh Horowitz?

  You had, in your head, you had no backup plan.

• 31:29Speaker 03

  Nothing. No, and I had no transferable skills at all.

• 31:33Josh Horowitz?

  A necessity, you had no backup plan.

• 31:34Speaker 03

  I could, I could maybe do tap dance. That was about it. There you go. That's all you need.

• 31:38Josh Horowitz?

  Karaoke in the blood.

• 31:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 31:42Josh Horowitz?

  So you get, you get The Quiet Ones, you get the seminal classic Ouija.

• 31:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, I got Bates Motel before Ouija.

• 31:50Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, okay. So, so Bates Motel, that's an interesting, like, that's an interesting show because I feel like it's somewhere in between. Like, you could have gotten, I'm most fascinated, like, like, the first kind of break that happens, because it's obviously not a choice. It's sort of like luck of the draw, whatever breaks you, whatever the first, like, steady gig is.

• 32:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, you'll do whatever.

• 32:08Josh Horowitz?

  You could have been on a CW show, you could have been.

• 32:11Speaker 03

  Oh, I auditioned for them.

• 32:13Josh Horowitz?

  I was gonna say, like, what were you going up for in that time?

• 32:16Speaker 03

  Everything and, and, yeah, I, I was, yeah, it was just all, it was sort of like back in the day of pilot season. I was, yeah, so I was still, like, auditioning for, like, like, far and wide.

• 32:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 32:29Speaker 03

  Um, and Bates Motel came along and it was for to play an American and I was like, there's no way.

• 32:37Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 32:38Speaker 03

  And I just got it off of the tape and they never even met me and then I flew to Vancouver and started shooting for five months. And at eighteen, and it was, you know, terrifying, but like the most exciting adventure ever. Could not believe it.

• 32:55Josh Horowitz?

  How many years did you do on Bates?

• 32:58Speaker 03

  Five seasons, yeah, I did all of them, yeah, yeah, I know.

• 33:03Josh Horowitz?

  And you are, like, it throughout, we mentioned Ouija, The Signal, Quiet Ones, and then Me, Earl and the Dying Girl.

• 33:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:10Josh Horowitz?

  Which, like, a huge, like, festival, like, moment. Like, I remember being there. That was like, when that film hits, it was kind of a little mini, you know, you're in that festival atmosphere, you know what it's like.

• 33:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was so exciting.

• 33:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, what, take me into like that moment.

• 33:26Speaker 03

  Remem, you know, because we'd, we watched it in, God, what's that theatre called, that?

• 33:32Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yeah, Sundance?

• 33:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, that.

• 33:34Josh Horowitz?

  The Eccles?

• 33:35Speaker 03

  The Eccles, yeah, we watched it at the Eccles.

• 33:36Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 33:36Speaker 03

  Huge audience.

• 33:39Speaker 03

  I think that was the first time I'd seen it. Maybe I'd seen like an earlier cut. And just the palpable emotion and reaction at the end. And then this eruption of applause that lasted. Like it was like a Cannes applause. Oh God, that's embarrassing. Cannes.

• 33:59Speaker 03

  A Cannes applause that lasted for forever. And I just remember walking out of the theatre sort of high. And Nick Offerman was stood there, eyes bright red, face swollen. He'd been crying so much. And he'd just sort of like put a hand on my shoulder and then just like looked away because he couldn't look at me. I was like, oh God, this, we've really made something. Alfonso's really made something special here.

• 34:27Speaker 03

  And then it got bought by Fox Searchlight and they put all their eggs in Brooklyn's basket. And they did not promote it and barely anyone saw it. And it was really fucked because they. Yeah, fuck you, Fox Searchlight. It was, it was fucked because they put us up like counter programming against like Jurassic World.

• 34:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, that's not gonna, no.

• 34:48Speaker 03

  In the summer and we just weren't, we didn't have the heft to, to stand up against that. And I, I just like, my heart really broke for Alfonso and like all the work that he'd put into it. And like, he was doing his own campaigning and then we were like flying from state to state to try and like boots on the ground, raise awareness. And it was just a really exhausting campaign to get people to see this beautiful film.

• 35:14Josh Horowitz?

  I remember you guys came into MTV. We talked to you. That's where I was.

• 35:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:18Josh Horowitz?

  You there. Did it at least, okay, so yes, it gets this amazing critical reception. The good part about something like that is the people that need to see it, see it in the industry.

• 35:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:27Josh Horowitz?

  They've already, you're probably already on their radar, but did you find that it did something for you and got you into more rooms?

• 35:32Speaker 03

  I think it, well, yeah. Steven Spielberg saw that film and he.

• 35:37Josh Horowitz?

  That's a direct correlation to Red Player One.

• 35:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, and, and, and I. Yeah, that that year. So me and the dying girl came out in the June of 2015 and in September I got Ready Player One.

• 35:52Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, wow.

• 35:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, so yeah, it was a bit of a direct route to Steven Spielberg.

• 35:57Josh Horowitz?

  So there's a good outcome there.

• 35:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, there was a there was amazing outcome. I just wanted more people to see the film. I thought it was so beautiful and I still think it's so beautiful. Anyway, Steven Spielberg.

• 36:08Josh Horowitz?

  We'll get we'll get there. But before we get to that, okay, some I always love like the roads that we almost traveled down. There's one that I'm fascinated by. Is it true that you auditioned for Star Wars, that you were up for The Last Jedi? It was reported that you were one of

• 36:21Speaker 03

  Which one's that?

• 36:21Josh Horowitz?

  That's the one. I believe it would have been the Kelly Marie Tran role, maybe, the Ryan Johnson film.

• 36:29Speaker 03

  I don't think I was. I think that was a weird rumor. I do think that was a rumor. I don't think I I don't think I actually auditioned for it. That might have been like.

• 36:39Josh Horowitz?

  You're on a list and they just put it out there?

• 36:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, or like, you know, an agent leaked it to try and get more like cachet. I actually don't think I auditioned for it, did I? It was so that was so it was like 12 years ago. I did audition a few times for the other one where Daisy Ridley.

• 36:58Josh Horowitz?

  The first one.

• 36:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, the first one. But like, you know, everyone and their dog auditioned for that.

• 37:03Josh Horowitz?

  Every brunette British girl was in.

• 37:06Speaker 03

  With big eyes. Yeah, just, you know, insert here.

• 37:11Josh Horowitz?

  Was that a memorable experience? Like, was that I assume it's demi sides. It's just you don't even know what you're actually.

• 37:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think I auditioned once in L A. And then once with J J. And I was shit. I was really bad. I was just bad. You know, when you go into an audition and you're just not you're just not bringing it. And you've let yourself down. You've let everyone down in the room. It it just was it. I, you know, Daisy did such amazing job. I just wasn't that kind of actor at that time. You know, it wasn't a fit.

• 37:49Josh Horowitz?

  Have you had that flip side where it's like you feel like you've aced something and you start to like go down that path in your brain? You're like you're planning the rest of your life like.

• 37:55Speaker 03

  Hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. And then the disappointment that follows. The devastation. I've not had a I've not had a really devastating one for a few years, but. There was like Endless Love with Alex Pettifer. It was a remake.

• 38:13Josh Horowitz?

  I remember Alex Pettifer, yeah.

• 38:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:15Josh Horowitz?

  Who did I hear the name?

• 38:17Speaker 03

  I remember blanking on her name, but I like I screen tested for that and I wanted it so badly. And I was nineteen. It was my first ever screen test and I was just like, I've got to get this. And then my agent rang me up like in the middle of the night in the UK because they were in um America. And I wept into my childhood pillow in my childhood home.

• 38:40Josh Horowitz?

  It's the dark.

• 38:40Speaker 03

  So I was like, my, my career is not going to amount to anything because I didn't get Endless Love.

• 38:45Josh Horowitz?

  It worked out.

• 38:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:46Josh Horowitz?

  Are we talking about endless, anybody else talking about Endless Love today with all due respect?

• 38:50Speaker 03

  Maybe.

• 38:50Josh Horowitz?

  Maybe.

• 38:51Speaker 03

  Maybe.

• 38:51Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, maybe it's great. I don't, I never saw it, but.

• 38:53Speaker 03

  I didn't see it. I couldn't watch it.

• 38:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, well, it's too close to.

• 38:55Speaker 03

  It was too close.

• 38:56Josh Horowitz?

  You did do Thoroughbreds, which also, that's a great one. That's one, again, that I don't know if it got the audience it deserved, but like, there's probably an audience out there for that one.

• 39:04Speaker 03

  I think it's grown an audience over time, which is quite nice. And Corey Finley, who was

• 39:09Josh Horowitz?

  Great.

• 39:10Speaker 03

  like wonderkind twenty seven at the time who directed that, had adapted his own play and made it into a um a film. What's it? A screenplay. God. Um.

• 39:24Josh Horowitz?

  I saw the robot shut down.

• 39:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was like, oh, jet lag. I'm, I'm wearing this energy patch.

• 39:30Josh Horowitz?

  Oh.

• 39:30Speaker 03

  That my.

• 39:31Josh Horowitz?

  It's not working.

• 39:31Speaker 03

  Publicist. It's not working. I'm just like trying to tap it.

• 39:34Josh Horowitz?

  That's how it works.

• 39:36Speaker 03

  I'm like, why? Just press on. Um, yes, I love that film.

• 39:40Josh Horowitz?

  Um, not to bring it down, but like, I want to mention Anton because that, that, I mean, I knew him a little bit. You'd obviously worked with him more. I mean, I was just.

• 39:49Speaker 03

  Devastated. Yeah.

• 39:51Josh Horowitz?

  Just the nature of it, the whole thing was just beyond comprehension.

• 39:54Speaker 03

  I know. I know. Yeah.

• 39:55Josh Horowitz?

  And as I recall, that happened like very soon after you guys shot it.

• 39:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, we, we, well, the movie shot for four weeks and so I spent about four weeks with him. And then, yeah, it happened two weeks after. Um.

• 40:07Josh Horowitz?

  So when you think back to that film, it must be so intrin, like intrinsically linked to him.

• 40:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's was, he's so wonderful. And I just remember him being the most in interesting, funny, charismatic, kind person. Um. Yeah, it was.

• 40:31Speaker 03

  Such a shock and so devastating and so cruel.

• 40:35Josh Horowitz?

  Did you ever see the doc they did? I don't know if you were.

• 40:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, I did. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah.

• 40:41Josh Horowitz?

  Um, okay, on a bright and note, we mentioned Spielberg. I mean, that's, that's, that's a moment to get that phone call. I'm sure that's an audition process.

• 40:49Speaker 03

  That was a process. Yeah.

• 40:51Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 40:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:52Josh Horowitz?

  Um, we were talking, I was privileged enough to talk to him recently. He is exactly what you want him to be. Um, are you good at kind of like soaking up an experience like that? You know, when you're shooting that, like, this is like what everybody kills for. This only happens every so often.

• 41:06Speaker 03

  I, I did. I, I was twenty two when we shot the film and we shot it in Leavesden Studios where we shoot, um, House of the Dragon, actually. Um, and I, I do remember like just pinching myself and trying to be like, just really just try and take this all in. Cause you know, this might never come around again. And I think I did. I have got loads of memories from that set, way more than I've got on any other set ever, even in recent times. But it was just for me, such a adrenalized experience because I'm acting opposite Steven Spielberg every day.

• 41:45Speaker 03

  And then, you know, Mark Rylance and I'm in this motion capture suit and it's like very skin tight. And I've got dots all over my face and I've also got a head cam with like, you know, four cameras and two lights on it. And I'm trying to navigate that. And it's like, it was a really disorientating time too. But like, he is just a genius and watching the way his mind works and how he's able to sew sequences together that he's just making up on the spot.

• 42:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 42:20Speaker 03

  And especially with that film where he's also editing the, um, motion capture, the Oasis virtual reality world. In between the real life reactions in the real world.

• 42:35Speaker 03

  Which was like a dystopian Columbus, Ohio. And then making just motion capture sequences on the spot where there's a bit in it where my, like the alien juts out of someone's stomach.

• 42:51Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 42:51Speaker 03

  And then it devolves into, or dissolved, sorry, dissolved into a puppet on my hand and me just going like that. And he just came up with that on the spot. And I'm just like, okay, let's do it. And then the way it cuts into the film, it's so funny. And so, I mean, just silly and playful.

• 43:13Josh Horowitz?

  So we all grew up with Spielberg. That's one of those that's just across all genres. But like, what were you, what was your genre of choice growing up? What was like the films, the actors? I had a really disturbingly long conversation about erotic thrillers yet again with Matt Smith.

• 43:29Speaker 03

  As a child.

• 43:31Josh Horowitz?

  Well, I wouldn't say child, but like, that's like teenage.

• 43:34Speaker 03

  Okay. Oh, sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Right. Passage for him.

• 43:39Josh Horowitz?

  So what was your, your genre of choice? Hopefully not erotic thrillers like.

• 43:42Speaker 03

  Oh, my God. Like, I mean, Huck, Huck was my, and Stephen, when I've heard him speak about Huck, he can be quite disparaging. I loved it. It was like what I wanted life to be like.

• 43:58Josh Horowitz?

  You want to live in Neverland?

• 43:59Speaker 03

  Completely. I wanted to be a lost boy. I wanted to live in a tree house. I wanted to like, have these like imaginary food fights that turn into this amazing creamy pie. And I want to be with Robin Williams, just having a laugh.

• 44:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 44:13Speaker 03

  Um, I thought it was the most fantastical, um, awe inspiring film.

• 44:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 44:19Speaker 03

  That I'd ever seen. And sort of, it was almost akin to, you know, old fashioned musicals that I'd, you know, been obsessed with as well, like Oliver.

• 44:29Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 44:29Speaker 03

  Um, Mary Poppins, The Wizard of Oz, Sound of Music. You know, I loved.

• 44:36Josh Horowitz?

  Big, bright.

• 44:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:38Josh Horowitz?

  Movie, movie, movies.

• 44:39Speaker 03

  Because it was play. It was play. And I think what was wonderful as well, I think in my life, there was a real lack of.

• 44:47Speaker 03

  Adults playing with children and everyone being on a level.

• 44:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 44:51Speaker 03

  Whereas in these films, everyone just came together and it didn't matter what age you were.

• 44:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 44:55Speaker 03

  You were just all like, it was just joy. It was just joyous to be like in the middle of a song and dance number. And I think that's what I wanted.

• 45:05Josh Horowitz?

  Where's your, where's your movie musical? Are you interested? Have you gone up for them? Or are you?

• 45:09Speaker 03

  Have I gone up for them?

• 45:13Speaker 03

  I don't think, oh no, I did. They were, they were.

• 45:18Speaker 03

  Oh God, I hope this never resurfaces. Um.

• 45:20Josh Horowitz?

  There's a tape.

• 45:21Speaker 03

  Actually, weirdly, Alfonso Gomes Ruijon, who shot Me and the Dying Girl, he was gonna shoot the film version of Spring Awakening. And I think I auditioned for that when I was twenty. And just like, just screaming this audition in my mom's conservatory.

• 45:42Speaker 03

  Just spring and summer. Um, so I never heard back.

• 45:47Josh Horowitz?

  Never, well.

• 45:48Speaker 03

  And also the food.

• 45:49Josh Horowitz?

  It hasn't happened.

• 45:49Speaker 03

  It hasn't happened.

• 45:50Josh Horowitz?

  So he's probably, it's probably somewhere in the transom. It's coming, it's coming.

• 45:53Speaker 03

  It's coming, but I, I've aged out. Unfortunately, I've aged out. I can't play like a, like a Germanic schoolgirl.

• 46:00Josh Horowitz?

  Don't let it yourself. You can mocap it.

• 46:02Speaker 03

  Thank you. Hey, pen fifteen.

• 46:04Josh Horowitz?

  That, that's true.

• 46:08Josh Horowitz?

  Can I give you one more what if?

• 46:09Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 46:10Josh Horowitz?

  Set the record straight. Did you do the Marvel thing, the Hawkeye series? It sounds, it sounds like you were in the mix for.

• 46:16Speaker 03

  Again, another, another rumor.

• 46:18Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 46:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, no. I think they'd like, you know,

• 46:24Speaker 03

  gauged my interest and I was like, oh, I don't know if that's me right now. But I never, I never met with anyone nor, nor auditioned.

• 46:34Josh Horowitz?

  So where are you at now? This is, we have one more season, Pass of the Dragons. So we know seven months of your life is gonna be taken up.

• 46:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:41Josh Horowitz?

  In the next year, I would imagine.

• 46:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:43Josh Horowitz?

  Um.

• 46:44Speaker 03

  If I don't die.

• 46:45Josh Horowitz?

  What?

• 46:46Speaker 03

  If I don't die.

• 46:48Josh Horowitz?

  Where did that come from?

• 46:49Speaker 03

  Well, I don't know.

• 46:51Josh Horowitz?

  You've got the whole.

• 46:51Speaker 03

  That's true. Oh no, I mean in the show. Also, like, yeah, if I don't die.

• 46:57Josh Horowitz?

  I took it to the dark place.

• 46:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, you did.

• 46:58Josh Horowitz?

  It's a me, it's a me problem.

• 46:59Speaker 03

  Oh no, maybe that's gonna happen. Maybe that's what you've foreseen in my future.

• 47:03Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 47:04Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 47:06Josh Horowitz?

  Cut the tape.

• 47:09Speaker 03

  Get a therapist in.

• 47:09Josh Horowitz?

  Alison is gonna live, you're gonna live, everyone's living.

• 47:13Speaker 03

  Fingers crossed.

• 47:14Josh Horowitz?

  Um, I remember Emma out of season two advocated to get, I think she, they wanted um, a knife, something, some little action. Or do you advocate for Alison for anything in this, going into this last season? Is there anything you need and want?

• 47:28Speaker 03

  I think I did advocate for something and I actually think Sarah Hess has got it in. I was like, I'm not gonna say, but I was like, there needs to be some

• 47:41Speaker 03

  release.

• 47:42Josh Horowitz?

  There's a tease.

• 47:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, which could mean anything.

• 47:48Josh Horowitz?

  It's good you're not on Instagram. Who knows what people are gonna come up with about that?

• 47:51Speaker 03

  Oh god, I know, I know.

• 47:52Josh Horowitz?

  Um, but where are you at, given that you do have that commitment coming up? Like, do you feel at a place in your career when you can kind of steer your own ship? Or are you still kind of a receptor to what's coming at you? You know what I mean?

• 48:05Speaker 03

  I think a bit of both. I think I'm able to steer my own ship and choose my own projects and produce. I've got my own production company. I mean, every actor's got their own fucking production company at this point. Like, what does that even mean? You know, I've got a title.

• 48:20Josh Horowitz?

  What's the name of it?

• 48:21Speaker 03

  There's not an office or another person working with me. It's just me.

• 48:25Josh Horowitz?

  Don't pull the curtain back. No, no, you've got 12 people. They're just non-stop typing.

• 48:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, they're all writing things for me.

• 48:32Josh Horowitz?

  Can I be an intern for the company?

• 48:33Speaker 03

  Course. You can come around to my house and sit at the kitchen table.

• 48:38Josh Horowitz?

  Any ideas today?

• 48:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, nothing, no. Um, it's called Chippy Tea.

• 48:43Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 48:43Speaker 03

  Which means nothing to Americans.

• 48:46Josh Horowitz?

  No, it doesn't.

• 48:46Speaker 03

  Chippy Tea is like chip shop tea. Tea's, tea's a northern, northern slang for dinner.

• 48:53Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 48:54Speaker 03

  So it's just a chip shop dinner. Chippy Tea Productions.

• 48:57Josh Horowitz?

  It's great. Don't sell it short. You, I assume you're, you're already...

• 49:00Speaker 03

  Having to explain it.

• 49:02Josh Horowitz?

  Takes the fun out of it. It's again, a me prompt, an American prompt.

• 49:05Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no. A big, a big, no, like a small little titter of recognition in the UK. That's it.

• 49:13Speaker 03

  Anyway, look forward to Chibiti Productions.

• 49:16Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, the one woman band, what do you want to produce? What are you looking to produce? What kind of material are you looking for?

• 49:22Speaker 03

  I, yeah, I am producing a TV show called Daddies. I'm producing two TV shows. We'll see. I mean, they always take about seventeen years to get made, so we'll see. Um, I've got a rom-com that I'm trying to get off the ground. Rom-coms are hard because I don't want it to be like a bit, I don't want it to be Netflixified.

• 49:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, no, the mics pick up a lot, just so you know.

• 49:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, maybe let Bleep that because I do want them to hire me.

• 49:54Josh Horowitz?

  No, but we understand.

• 49:55Speaker 03

  Publicist about to leap.

• 49:56Josh Horowitz?

  There is a kind of rom-com that doesn't, doesn't feel elevated. It feels a little samey.

• 50:00Speaker 03

  I want it to be really beautiful and like, and also just like a bit primal as well, like what we feel in the first flushes of love and the, like, the obsession of that. And it all goes a bit like, you know,

• 50:16Speaker 03

  anxious and a bit dark sometimes as well. Like, it's not a nice feeling.

• 50:20Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 50:21Speaker 03

  You know, the first flushes of love and this like romantic, you know, embarkment. It's, it's, it's.

• 50:28Josh Horowitz?

  It's messy.

• 50:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's messy. Yeah, it is. Anyway, that's maybe why no one's making it.

• 50:35Josh Horowitz?

  So it's unrated. It's really nasty.

• 50:38Speaker 03

  It's awful.

• 50:39Josh Horowitz?

  What's your rom-com all-timer? What's like the two or three that you go to?

• 50:43Speaker 03

  God, um,

• 50:46Speaker 03

  I mean, Worst Person in the World, I did think it was.

• 50:51Josh Horowitz?

  I'm obsessed. We're not. It's amazing.

• 50:53Speaker 03

  Like Savant. Beautiful, beautiful performer. Um, I, I, I do love that film. I love When Harry Met Sally, obviously. Um, there are some others that I'm.

• 51:09Speaker 03

  I mean, Blue is the Warmest Color is not a rom-com.

• 51:13Josh Horowitz?

  It's very telling.

• 51:15Speaker 03

  Portrait of a Lady on Fire, not a rom-com. Yeah.

• 51:21Josh Horowitz?

  Any Lars von Trier movies you want to throw in there?

• 51:23Speaker 03

  Sure. Melancholia.

• 51:25Josh Horowitz?

  Collier?

• 51:26Speaker 03

  Collier. Yeah.

• 51:29Josh Horowitz?

  Good luck with the production company.

• 51:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is why I can't get money.

• 51:35Josh Horowitz?

  All right, I'm gonna end with this. We end every Happy Second Feasts with the profoundly random questions.

• 51:39Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 51:40Josh Horowitz?

  You ready for this?

• 51:40Speaker 03

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 51:41Josh Horowitz?

  Here we go. Dogs or cats?

• 51:45Speaker 03

  Cat.

• 51:47Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 51:48Speaker 03

  I like having to work hard for affection, I think.

• 51:50Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, so you're taking it as which you are. That's which is great. I mean, more of you, like, are you a dog or cat person, meaning an owner? What do you enjoy being around?

• 51:58Speaker 03

  I mean, I want to, I want to work hard for their affection.

• 52:01Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, I see.

• 52:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 52:02Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, got it.

• 52:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, because it's, the payoff is fantastic.

• 52:07Josh Horowitz?

  What do you collect, if anything?

• 52:09Speaker 03

  What do I collect?

• 52:12Speaker 03

  Tea bags.

• 52:16Josh Horowitz?

  Just move right along.

• 52:17Speaker 03

  Generally, they're different teas.

• 52:19Josh Horowitz?

  Sure. You use tea bags?

• 52:21Speaker 03

  No, come on.

• 52:22Josh Horowitz?

  I'm not a psycho.

• 52:23Speaker 03

  Come on. No, just like, no, tea, oh god, you're so bored. Teas from around the world and like different flavors and stuff. It's fantastic. I've got a huge tea drawer.

• 52:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 52:36Speaker 03

  God, I'm boring. This is, this is, this is your 30s. I had to collect tea bags.

• 52:42Josh Horowitz?

  Do you have a favorite video game of all time?

• 52:44Speaker 03

  No.

• 52:46Josh Horowitz?

  The first, nope. Someone's just been like, nope, I reject the question.

• 52:49Speaker 03

  No.

• 52:49Josh Horowitz?

  Wow.

• 52:50Speaker 03

  Not a video game.

• 52:51Josh Horowitz?

  Never played a single video game in your life?

• 52:53Speaker 03

  No, can't stand it. It doesn't, I, my brain, my brain can't do it. I just get so,

• 52:59Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 53:01Speaker 03

  Just impatient with it all.

• 53:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 53:03Speaker 03

  And I can't do it. And my, my thumbs can't

• 53:05Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 53:06Speaker 03

  Act quick enough.

• 53:07Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 53:08Speaker 03

  And I don't know what the triangle means, what the square means, what the circle means. Okay, sorry.

• 53:13Josh Horowitz?

  Would you, as the, the Decred Johnson memorial question, she asks me this, I ask everybody, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 53:20Speaker 03

  A mouthful of bees or one bee in my butt?

• 53:23Josh Horowitz?

  You heard me.

• 53:25Speaker 03

  I think one bee in my butt. I don't think that would be that bad.

• 53:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 53:29Speaker 03

  Quite nice.

• 53:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it could be nice, depending on the bee.

• 53:34Josh Horowitz?

  You're really sorting it out.

• 53:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, I'm just like, I'm just like, it's probably more painful, not that I've ever been on this show, but to be on Hot Ones and the aftermath than having one bee in your butt.

• 53:45Josh Horowitz?

  I would think so. The Hot Ones does not look enjoyable.

• 53:47Speaker 03

  No, my stomach lining would be ruined in map resolve immediately.

• 53:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Bathroom, there's not a pretty sight, I'm sure. What's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 54:00Speaker 03

  It's my boyfriend jumping on the bed in motion, looking like a torpedo. And it's just him in the air, just like, and he's got a bald head, so it looks even funnier in motion because there's just no face, it's just head.

• 54:14Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing. You captured this wonderful moment?

• 54:16Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 54:17Josh Horowitz?

  Well done. Last actor you were mistaken for?

• 54:29Speaker 03

  I do get mistaken for

• 54:38Speaker 03

  Jenna Coleman.

• 54:39Josh Horowitz?

  Oh.

• 54:39Speaker 03

  Quite a lot.

• 54:40Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Again, this Doctor Who thing is just following you around.

• 54:43Speaker 03

  Yes. And, why am I blanking on?

• 54:48Josh Horowitz?

  It's okay. Editing is for it, it's okay.

• 54:54Speaker 03

  Oh, Ella Pinnell, yes, I got mistaken for her.

• 54:57Josh Horowitz?

  Ella Pinnell?

• 54:58Speaker 03

  Ella Pinnell, and there's, Amy, Amy, Amy, Amy Lee Wood.

• 55:03Josh Horowitz?

  Got it.

• 55:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know why I blanked on her name, but yeah, yeah, Amy Lee Wood.

• 55:07Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. What's the worst noted director has ever given you?

• 55:10Speaker 03

  Be more magic.

• 55:13Speaker 03

  Straight off the top of the dome then, be more magic. Traumatized. I was like, what do you mean? It's like, be more magic. I was like.

• 55:20Josh Horowitz?

  That's amazing.

• 55:23Josh Horowitz?

  Ta-da.

• 55:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, that was hard.

• 55:29Josh Horowitz?

  Long time ago?

• 55:30Speaker 03

  That was, yeah, that was when I auditioned for Cinderella when I was 19 in the Disney offices, when it was a different director than who, than Kev Pinnell. Yeah, yeah. And he was just like looming over me with a, with a handheld camera, be like, be more magic. I was like.

• 55:52Josh Horowitz?

  That's awesome. And finally, in the spirit of happy seg confused, an actor who always makes you happy, you see them on screen, you're in a better mood.

• 55:59Speaker 03

  Oh, Anna Maxwell Martin.

• 56:01Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 56:02Speaker 03

  Um, Motherland.

• 56:04Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 56:04Speaker 03

  Love her. I think she's a fucking amazing actor.

• 56:07Josh Horowitz?

  Great. Movie that makes you sad?

• 56:10Speaker 03

  Uh, oh.

• 56:13Speaker 03

  Um.

• 56:17Josh Horowitz?

  There's that famous face that they talk about. He's gonna do all the emotions.

• 56:23Speaker 03

  Um. Titanic?

• 56:26Josh Horowitz?

  Sure. I cried.

• 56:28Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 56:28Josh Horowitz?

  We all did.

• 56:29Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's a tough, it's a toughie.

• 56:32Josh Horowitz?

  It's a toughie.

• 56:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, I've, I.

• 56:34Josh Horowitz?

  That's what they say about it. It's a toughie.

• 56:35Speaker 03

  It's a toughie.

• 56:37Speaker 03

  Try hard, it's not too. Yeah, I don't know. I've not thought about that. Um, yeah, that one's sad. That is sad.

• 56:43Josh Horowitz?

  It is sad.

• 56:44Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 56:44Josh Horowitz?

  Poor Jack.

• 56:45Speaker 03

  Poor Jack. And just like the actual event that actually happens.

• 56:50Josh Horowitz?

  That's for making it real.

• 56:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:52Josh Horowitz?

  Go and we went there. And finally, a food that makes you confused.

• 56:55Speaker 03

  A food that makes me confused. Oh, um, uh, oh, oh, uni.

• 57:02Josh Horowitz?

  This is coming up so often lately. It's like happened like five times in the last two months. Everybody's off uni.

• 57:08Speaker 03

  So confused by it. And it's, we went, me and my boyfriend went to Japan last, early last year. And he tried uni for the first time. And then every time he burped for six months, he was like, uni.

• 57:22Josh Horowitz?

  Still in there.

• 57:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:24Josh Horowitz?

  The, uh, the uni lobby needs to really like invest because right now they are taking a hit on happy seg confused.

• 57:30Speaker 03

  It's tough. I mean, I'll have it. I don't ever want to like disrespect the chef.

• 57:34Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 57:34Speaker 03

  I'll, I'll power through.

• 57:35Josh Horowitz?

  Power through.

• 57:36Speaker 03

  But he was not having.

• 57:39Speaker 03

  He's had, he was just like head in hands like.

• 57:44Speaker 03

  That's awful, down the mic, sorry.

• 57:45Josh Horowitz?

  No, it was wonderful, it's beautiful. The podcast listeners appreciate it. And I appreciate you, we did it finally on the podcast.

• 57:51Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 57:52Josh Horowitz?

  Good luck with the season, it's gonna go great. I've seen the first two, don't screw up the next six.

• 57:58Speaker 03

  Try not to.

• 57:59Josh Horowitz?

  You got this.

• 58:00Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 58:00Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, it's happened already, you did, you did.

• 58:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, I feel kind of fine about it. Nothing I can do.

• 58:07Josh Horowitz?

  It's good to see you, thank you for stopping by.

• 58:08Speaker 03

  Lovely to see you, thank you, thanks Josh.

• 58:12Speaker 04

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't sure to do this by Josh.

• 58:31Speaker 07

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