Devon | Betrayal Weekly

Her girlfriend tells her she has nothing to worry about. Devon’s gut says otherwise. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal team by emailing us at [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. You can also find us on Instagram at @betrayalpod https://www.instagram.com/betrayalpod/ and @glasspodcasts https://www.instagram.com/glasspodcasts/. To access our newsletter and additional content and to connect with the Betrayal community, join our Substack at betrayal.substack.com. If you are currently in crisis, please reach out to organizations that offer immediate support. We are including a few US-based resources here: 988 Lifeline. https://988lifeline.org/ If you or someone you know is in crisis or need to talk to someone immediately, please call or text 988 – the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline available 24/7/365. National Domestic Violence Hotline https://www.thehotline.org/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=domestic_violence. They offer 24/7 phone and chat support to help you create a personalized safety plan and connect you with local support. For resources on sexual violence, visit rainn.org/betrayal. You can also get free, confidential, 24/7 support through RAINN’s National Sexual Assault Hotline. Text HOPE to 64673 or call 1-800-656-HOPE. Every state has a domestic violence coalition. If you’re looking for help in the US, search the web for your state’s domestic violence coalition. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Andrea Gunning?

  Hi, everyone. We have some exciting news to share. ABC News Studios has turned Caroline Borrega's story from Betrayal, season four, into a docu-series. You'll get to meet the people involved, you'll hear from people who have never spoken before, and you get to see where this story took place. We are so proud and excited to share it with you all. Stream Betrayal: Dirty Secrets now on Hulu or Hulu for Disney+. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. You know the saying, "Knowledge is power"? Well, it's a lot more than that. Knowledge can be growth, security, opportunity. And no one knows that better than Southern New Hampshire University. That's why they offer over 200 online degree programs designed

• 0:43Andrea Gunning?

  to help you reach your goals. Set yourself up for success, or get ready to pivot into something new. No matter your program, you'll learn practical, career-focused skills you can use on the job. And don't worry, getting your degree online doesn't mean doing it alone. Southern New Hampshire University has some of the best student support in online education. From day one to graduation, you'll have friendly, knowledgeable people to help you with everything, from applying and financial aid, to tutoring and career development. At Southern New Hampshire University, knowledge can be life-changing. Get started at SNHU.edu/Betrayal. That's SNHU.edu/Betrayal.

• 1:26Andrea Gunning?

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• 2:02Speaker 01

  OnePay is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by Coastal Community Bank or Lead Bank, members FDIC. Builder Card results may vary and aren't guaranteed. Learn more about banking through OnePay at onepay.com/podcast.

• 2:17Andrea Gunning?

  Some people never expected their lives to change in an instant. Most of us don't. That's why I want you to know about Saber Smart Pepper Spray. Yes, it helps protect you, but what makes it different is the connected app. If you're ever forced to use it in an emergency, it can alert your emergency contacts and share your location, so the people who love you aren't left searching. They're not left guessing, they know where to start. Visit saberred.com/Betrayal. That's saberred.com/Betrayal.

• 2:48Speaker 02

  Looking back on my journey of the whole relationship, it's almost like watching a bad horror film where the protagonist is like walking through the house, being like, "Hello? Hello? Is anyone here?" And you're like screaming at the screen, "They're right behind you!"

• 3:17Andrea Gunning?

  I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal, a show about the people we trust the most and the deceptions that change everything. Really quick before we get into the episode, I have a small favor to ask you. If you're enjoying listening to Betrayal, please take a second to hit the follow button on your podcast app, and please rate and review. We read all the comments, and your voices help our show improve and evolve. I really mean it when I say thank you for listening and helping us grow. Also, if you want behind-the-scenes content or resources, follow @betrayalpod on Instagram, or follow me at It's Andrea Gunning. All right, on to the show.

• 4:02Andrea Gunning?

  Devin grew up in the Pacific Northwest. Her family's house was surrounded by five acres of land, which made for a perfect playground for Devin and her older sister.

• 4:13Speaker 02

  We would just disappear into the wilds of our backyard for hours, playing, and come in when we heard a bell to have a snack.

• 4:25Andrea Gunning?

  Her family had a farm, complete with horses, chickens, and llamas.

• 4:31Speaker 02

  You could sell individual llamas for tens of thousands of dollars, and so my mom started a llama business for income. They would put me in a llama auction with the llama to show how gentle it was, and I would be leading this large animal around as a very small child, and just smiling. And I still remember the auctioneer being like, "Oh, look at the big smile on that child," you know?

• 4:54Andrea Gunning?

  Devin and her sister were homeschooled all through elementary and middle school. When she started ninth grade, her parents enrolled her in their town's public high school.

• 5:04Speaker 02

  I remember walking in and just beaming at every single person I saw. I think people thought something was wrong with me, but I was just so happy to be around so many people. And I thrived in high school.

• 5:16Andrea Gunning?

  She always participated in class discussions, but there was one day in history class that felt different.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  We were having a debate about the Supreme Court case between the Boy Scouts of America and Dale.

• 5:33Andrea Gunning?

  Boy Scouts of America versus Dale was a Supreme Court case in 2000. The Boy Scouts revoked James Dale's membership when they found out he was gay.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  This was like big news at the time, and our history teacher had us set up a debate to argue for having gay people in Boy Scouts and against having gay people in Boy Scouts. And I was the only one in a class of 30 kids that was arguing for gay people to be allowed to be in the Boy Scouts.

• 6:02Andrea Gunning?

  It wasn't an environment where Devin could comfortably explore who she was. The message from her high school was clear: fit in or be left behind.

• 6:12Speaker 02

  There were two gay people that I knew in high school, and both left because it was such a homophobic environment. And so I was staying safe by winning people over and not truly being my full self.

• 6:27Andrea Gunning?

  After high school, Devin started college in a city a few hours away. For the first time, she was surrounded by people that cared about the same things she did.

• 6:37Speaker 02

  I got deeply involved in women and gender studies, and I ran the Women's Resource Center with my best friend at the time.

• 6:45Andrea Gunning?

  Devin finally felt comfortable enough to explore who she was and what she wanted. She realized that she was queer.

• 6:53Speaker 02

  I started exclusively dating women when I was a sophomore. It wasn't a big deal. My family was pretty accepting of it, which was pretty great.

• 7:02Andrea Gunning?

  A few years after college, Devin moved to the Bay Area. She got a job working in mental health services, but outside of work, she didn't know anyone. She spent her weekends by herself. It was a lonely start.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  I was just alone in this new city with no friends. And I just remember scrapbooking and day drinking until I got too lonely and needed to see other people, and so I would go thrift store shopping or grocery shopping.

• 7:32Andrea Gunning?

  Eventually, she decided she needed to venture outside her comfort zone. She was ready to put herself out there. She downloaded the dating app OkCupid, and soon she had plans to meet up with a girl she met on the app named Kai.

• 7:51Speaker 02

  I remember walking up and seeing her, and I already thought she was cute. I met her by her motorcycle, and I thought that was sexy. She drove a motorcycle, and she had this kind of strong physique, which I found very attractive, had short hair, a lot of piercings, some tattoos, and there was a mysterious vibe to her.

• 8:15Andrea Gunning?

  Devin and Kai went on a long walk, talking the whole time. They weren't ready for the date to end.

• 8:25Speaker 02

  We ended up going into a bar and sitting side by side and talking. The first date was six hours.

• 8:36Andrea Gunning?

  Devon's the kind of person who has always kept a journal. And she has kept them to this day. She'll be reading excerpts from them throughout this episode. Here's what she wrote after her first date with Kai.

• 8:51Speaker 02

  She seems smart, very accomplished, intimidatingly so, super easy to be around, very dynamic, a good listener, sexy, thoughtful, and I found myself constantly laughing. She easily has the tools to steal many a girl's heart.

• 9:09Andrea Gunning?

  After their date, Kai sent Devon a text.

• 9:12Speaker 02

  Saying that she loved my energy and sharing space with me. Very west coast thing to say to somebody.

• 9:21Andrea Gunning?

  Devon couldn't stop thinking about Kai.

• 9:24Speaker 02

  I was trying to get myself to focus on other things, but I was so quickly infatuated.

• 9:31Andrea Gunning?

  They went on two more dates that month.

• 9:34Speaker 02

  I thought that pace was really healthy. I thought that was a sign that we weren't moving quickly and this was developing in a really methodical, high-trust way.

• 9:44Andrea Gunning?

  Spending time with Kai was always an adventure.

• 9:47Speaker 02

  We started kind of traipsing around this city that was beautiful, riding her motorcycle everywhere, which was very special and fun.

• 9:56Andrea Gunning?

  Soon, Kai invited Devon over to her place.

• 10:02Speaker 02

  The apartment was up on this big hill that had a gorgeous view. And we had a really good time. And she had a roommate named Melissa, and she said that Melissa was also her best friend.

• 10:12Andrea Gunning?

  Kai had a lot of different hobbies.

• 10:15Speaker 02

  She was in school for engineering, and I thought that that was really neat. She worked at a windsurfing shop, so she actually taught kiteboarding and windsurfing.

• 10:25Andrea Gunning?

  The more she saw of Kai's life, the more she admired her.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  I loved how she spoke about her friends. She was very fun-loving. She just seemed like she was really engaged and involved in building a life that she loved, and I admired that, and I wanted to do that, too.

• 10:45Andrea Gunning?

  Kai invited Devon into the life she'd built.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  Because I had moved there and didn't have any friends, she was also access to a community. All of her friends were wonderful, and I also saw that as a really positive sign. They were just these like awesome, honest, intelligent, dedicated people who are all passionate about different things, and I loved her friends.

• 11:11Andrea Gunning?

  The only person Kai seemed to have a tense relationship with was her roommate, Melissa. Kai told Devon.

• 11:19Speaker 02

  They used to be really close, but that Melissa had let her down in some really significant ways. So even though I never met Melissa, I was at their apartment a lot.

• 11:30Andrea Gunning?

  They were all in their mid-20s. Almost everyone they knew lived with roommates and had experience with some kind of roommate drama, so Devon understood and sympathized with Kai. A few months after their first date, Devon and Kai decided they wanted to see each other exclusively. That night, Devon wrote in her journal.

• 11:53Speaker 02

  The terms outlined are that we are only having sex with each other, and if anything happens with someone else, we let the other know. So we hadn't decided that we were girlfriends yet, but we had decided that we were exclusively having sex with one another.

• 12:10Andrea Gunning?

  Devon noticed that Kai kept talking about different girls she dated in the past. It made Devon feel a little jealous, so she brought it up to Kai.

• 12:19Speaker 02

  And Kai said, "The reason I bring up exes is to examine what I learned from those relationships." And I took that really well, because I'm somebody who always learns and examines my own behavior. And so I actually thought that that was really attractive, that she was bringing it up to see what she could learn from it.

• 12:39Andrea Gunning?

  Four months after their first date, they were ready to define their relationship.

• 12:45Speaker 02

  We decided to be officially dating girlfriends. And that felt really good to me. That felt healthy, that felt like we were progressing in a mature way.

• 12:58Andrea Gunning?

  Devon was giddy. She and Kai started spending more and more time together. Kai went out of her way to plan romantic dates for Devon.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  It was summer in this gorgeous city, and we went to go see the Indigo Girls up on this mountain, and we went wine tasting, and we were motorcycling everywhere. We went sailing.

• 13:19Andrea Gunning?

  Devon was falling in love. She wrote about everything she was feeling for Kai in her journal.

• 13:26Speaker 02

  I wrote, "She is smart, funny, playful, kind, affectionate, exceedingly thoughtful, a badass with a wealth of life experiences. We're very compatible. I keep waiting for the moment when I stop enjoying seeing her. I have to watch so that I don't lose myself in her."

• 13:43Andrea Gunning?

  It felt too good to be true.

• 13:46Speaker 02

  I remember saying, "How is it that I get to have such a cool life right now?"

• 14:11Andrea Gunning?

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• 14:55Andrea Gunning?

  Just complete a short online assessment, get matched with a clinician who fits your needs, and you can schedule your first appointment in days, not months. Plus, you'll continue seeing the same provider, so your treatment can grow with you over time.

• 15:10Andrea Gunning?

  Head to talkiatry.com/betrayal to complete this short assessment and get matched with an in-network psychiatrist in just a few minutes. That's T-A-L-K-I-A-T-R-Y.com/betrayal to get matched in minutes. Talkiatry.com/betrayal. Talkiatry.com/betrayal.

• 15:31Andrea Gunning?

  One thing I've learned from producing true crime these past few years is that life can change in an instant. Most people never expect to find themselves in a dangerous situation. They're heading home from work, walking the dog, meeting a friend, traveling alone, and they assume it's just another ordinary day, until it isn't. That's why I want you to know about Saber Red Smart Pepper Spray. Yes, it's designed to help protect you, but what makes it different is the connected app. If you're ever forced to use it in an emergency, it can alert your emergency contacts and share your location. So when every second matters, the people who care about you most aren't left wondering where you are. They're not left searching, they're not left guessing, they know where to start.

• 16:15Andrea Gunning?

  We can't always predict the unexpected, but we can be prepared for it. Learn more at sabered.com/betrayal. That's sabered.com/betrayal. You know the saying, "Knowledge is power"? Well, it's a lot more than that. Knowledge can be growth, security, opportunity, and no one knows that better than Southern New Hampshire University. That's why they offer over 200 online degree programs designed to help you reach your goals. Set yourself up for success, or get ready to pivot into something new. No matter your program, you'll learn practical, career-focused skills you can use on the job. And don't worry, getting your degree online doesn't mean doing it alone.

• 16:57Andrea Gunning?

  Southern New Hampshire University has some of the best student support and online education. From day one to graduation, you'll have friendly, knowledgeable people to help you with everything, from applying and financial aid to tutoring and career development. At Southern New Hampshire University, knowledge can be life-changing. Get started at SNHU.edu/betrayal. That's SNHU.edu/betrayal.

• 17:26Andrea Gunning?

  Devin and Kai's relationship felt like a dream. They spent their weekends roaming the Bay Area on Kai's motorcycle, going to wine tastings and hanging out with their friends. Kai opened so many doors to adventure, love, and community.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  She was a fun-loving person. She was always looking for a good time. And as somebody who had been very serious, that felt so tempting, that felt so exciting to be involved in. We were just having a grand time, just really enjoying life. I was just falling in love, happy, and living it up in the city.

• 18:07Andrea Gunning?

  The only challenge in their relationship was that Kai was often running late. But even with that...

• 18:13Speaker 02

  There were always really good reasons for why she was late. You know, there was traffic on the bridge, or it didn't feel safe to drive my motorcycle because I'd been drinking. Or, you know, I was caught up in a really serious conversation with a friend and I didn't want to leave in the middle of it.

• 18:29Andrea Gunning?

  Every time Kai explained why she was late, Devin felt reassured. She often felt bad for doubting Kai at all.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  I got in my own head about why was I so quick to assume the worst? You know, like, I just need to relax. I wrote even in my journal, "I don't want to be needy if something's not seriously wrong, but I do want her to communicate what's up."

• 18:51Andrea Gunning?

  They'd been dating for over seven months now. Things were getting more serious, more committed.

• 18:58Speaker 02

  We were planning trips together. She got to meet my family. I started to meet her family.

• 19:04Andrea Gunning?

  Kai was crazy about her.

• 19:07Speaker 02

  She said all these things to me about how I'm like the strongest, most intelligent woman she's ever dated, that I'm sexy, that she thinks about me all the time.

• 19:17Andrea Gunning?

  It was around this time that Kai moved out of the apartment she had been renting with her roommate, Melissa.

• 19:24Speaker 02

  She and Melissa were having a hard time and she said that she really needed to move out and get her own place.

• 19:30Andrea Gunning?

  Kai seemed really distraught about the end of their friendship. She and Melissa had been best friends for years before moving in together. Devin spent long nights processing it with Kai. Whenever Kai came over, Devin noticed that she stopped driving her car. Instead, she drove her motorcycle.

• 19:50Speaker 02

  When I asked her about it, she said that her brother really needed a car, so she gave it to him. And I thought that that was really generous. Overall, I thought Kai was really generous. She would buy drinks for everybody at the bar or, you know, just do these kind of like elaborate generous gestures, which was very attractive to me.

• 20:12Andrea Gunning?

  When they went out with their friends, Kai was the life of the party.

• 20:16Speaker 02

  She was getting around the drinks for people. She was good at making you feel like the only person in the room. People loved the attention they got from her, just like I did.

• 20:26Andrea Gunning?

  Devin wanted Kai to be free to express herself and didn't want her to dial back her personality. But sometimes, things felt like they were crossing a line.

• 20:38Speaker 02

  I just remember how flirty and touchy she was with her friends.

• 20:43Andrea Gunning?

  When Devin brought this up, Kai always assured her that she had nothing to be worried about, that the flirting was totally one-sided. She told Devin...

• 20:53Speaker 02

  I'm not attracted to so-and-so. I don't have a crush on them. I'm only interested in you. But they have a crush on me and I don't want to hurt their feelings. And so I'm just going to flirt with them and it's completely harmless.

• 21:06Andrea Gunning?

  Devin trusted Kai. But seeing people flirt with her, it made Devin uncomfortable. When Kai's birthday rolled around, Devin planned a surprise party and invited a bunch of her friends. At the party, Devin noticed that one of Kai's friends was being really flirty.

• 21:25Speaker 02

  Like, holding her hand and like touching her and she was kissing her on the cheek. She just kept saying, "I love you, Kai." She asked Kai to come into the bathroom with her, to help her change, and just all this stuff that seemed so inappropriate to me. And it really pissed me off.

• 21:39Andrea Gunning?

  This was clearly pushing boundaries.

• 21:42Speaker 02

  And I actually wrote in my journal, "I was so pissed, but it was her birthday and I didn't want to ruin Kai's day." Kai wasn't contributing. And Kai said, "She is really touchy-feely and it doesn't mean anything, especially because she did it while I was there." I wanted to address it, but Kai asked that I let it go.

• 22:02Andrea Gunning?

  Devin agreed. But she told Kai the way she was acting with her friends was really starting to bother her.

• 22:09Speaker 02

  I did start to have more doubts around this time, but it still was more positive than negative. I still had more hope that things could be fine and we just needed to communicate better and we could work it out. And these were all misunderstandings.

• 22:30Andrea Gunning?

  Kai and Devin were good at working through conflicts together. They were both emotionally intelligent people.

• 22:37Speaker 02

  So I felt good enough about our relationship that a few months later, I invited her to move in with me.

• 22:44Andrea Gunning?

  At this point, they were almost a year into their relationship. Kai moved in with Devin and brought her dog with her. They were excited to take this step, but they wanted to make sure they didn't merge every aspect of their lives too quickly.

• 22:59Speaker 02

  When she moved in, there were actually three bedrooms and we each took a bedroom. She had a bedroom, I had a bedroom, and then we often slept in my bedroom. And I wrote in my journal something about like, "It's important that we maintain our separate identities and that we, you know, spend some nights apart."

• 23:17Andrea Gunning?

  Eating dinner and talking about their days, she could imagine a future with Kai. They made the place their own and hung a picture of themselves in the front hallway.

• 23:26Speaker 02

  There was a big canvas picture of us kissing that was displayed in our house.

• 23:33Andrea Gunning?

  A few months into living together, Devin went on a weekend trip by herself. When she got back on Sunday night, Devin immediately noticed something was different.

• 23:43Speaker 02

  The kissing picture was put in my bedroom. And when I asked her about it, she said it had been getting too much sun.

• 23:51Andrea Gunning?

  This seemed like weird reasoning to Devin. So the next day, she brought it up to Kai again.

• 23:57Speaker 02

  She actually changed her story and she'd said she noticed that I put it down so that she assumed I didn't want it displayed publicly and that it made her sad.

• 24:09Andrea Gunning?

  Devin was confused. She knew she hadn't moved the picture.

• 24:13Speaker 02

  But she was so adamant about it. Part of me started to think, "Well, maybe, maybe I did. Maybe I did take the picture and move it over here and now she thinks that I am not proud of our relationship and she felt sad and so she put it in my room."

• 24:25Andrea Gunning?

  Either way, Kai assured Devin that she was just overthinking it. She had nothing to worry about.

• 24:32Speaker 02

  She said, "Just know that I love you very much and I respect and value you. I wouldn't do anything to jeopardize our relationship."

• 24:41Andrea Gunning?

  Kai was in school full-time and was juggling multiple jobs.

• 24:46Speaker 02

  She spent a fair bit of time away from the house. And I remember thinking at the time that I felt like a 1950s housewife because I was taking care of her dog and then we'd gotten a puppy. So I was taking care of both of them and doing my jobs. And she was just gone for 12 hours a day often. Most of the cleaning was on me and the care of the house and the dogs was on me.

• 25:09Andrea Gunning?

  Devin worked full-time too. It was a lot to keep up with. But she was happy to support Kai in getting her degree and building a life she loved. Summer rolled around and it was Pride Month. Devin and Kai made plans to attend the Pride Parade.

• 25:28Speaker 02

  We went to Pride with this new friend that she had met that she'd been spending a lot of time with named Sam.

• 25:37Andrea Gunning?

  Before they went, Kai warned her that Sam was pretty flirty.

• 25:41Speaker 02

  She very clearly introduced Sam to me as a friend who was very touchy-feely and that I shouldn't make any meaning out of that.

• 25:52Andrea Gunning?

  That day, Devin and Sam immediately clicked.

• 25:56Speaker 02

  I really liked Sam. Super charismatic, kind of like Kai, very gregarious, very friendly, you know, good energy, just wanted to be around her.

• 26:05Andrea Gunning?

  As the day went on, Devin noticed that Sam and Kai seemed really close, especially considering Sam was a new friend.

• 26:14Speaker 02

  We were all drinking. We were all pretty tipsy.

• 26:18Andrea Gunning?

  That night, Kai and Sam were inseparable. Every time Devin looked over, she saw them giggling or holding hands. Sometimes Kai was affectionate with her friends in a platonic way, especially when she was drinking. But this felt different.

• 26:37Speaker 02

  That was one of the first times that I saw their dynamic together. And started to feel like something was really off.

• 26:46Andrea Gunning?

  It made Devon uncomfortable. After Pride, she brought it up to Kai. She tried to set boundaries, but Kai told her it was not a big deal.

• 26:56Speaker 02

  She said, hey, that didn't mean anything. Sam is super touchy feely. That's just how she is. She's just that kind of person.

• 27:05Andrea Gunning?

  Devon wanted to believe her, but it was getting harder to put her worries aside.

• 27:11Speaker 02

  I was suspicious. I was concerned. I was increasingly mistrustful.

• 27:17Andrea Gunning?

  After that conversation, Kai was unusually affectionate and supportive. She kept telling Devon how special she was.

• 27:25Speaker 02

  All these sweet things like, you're amazing. Nobody's got shit on you. You're the absolute best I've had by far. I love you more than anything.

• 27:34Andrea Gunning?

  But her reassurance only did so much.

• 27:38Speaker 02

  And I started to feel more and more insecure in the relationship.

• 27:43Andrea Gunning?

  Devon wrote in her journal.

• 27:45Speaker 02

  God knows that I love her, but I can't keep taking this.

• 27:48Andrea Gunning?

  The fact that the three of them were always hanging out together felt like a good sign. It's not like Kai was trying to hide anything from her. It felt like more of a boundaries issue than anything.

• 28:00Speaker 02

  There was one weekend when we had a whole bunch of friends visiting. So I had friends from across the country staying at our house. And Kai had invited her friends, including Sam. And we all went to this queer club to go dancing. And we all got pretty tipsy. And I remember Kai bringing up the idea of a threesome.

• 28:22Andrea Gunning?

  A threesome? Devon nearly choked on her drink.

• 28:26Speaker 02

  And to be clear, the threesome that Kai wanted to have was with Sam. It was kind of poised as, hey, I want to be with somebody who's sexually open in this way and wants to have a threesome. I said that I wasn't interested. I didn't really want to do that.

• 28:43Andrea Gunning?

  But then Kai pushed back. She said she wanted them to have a new sexual experience together as a couple. That was really important to her. And all of a sudden, this wasn't about the threesome. It was about being the person Kai wanted her to be.

• 29:01Speaker 02

  And I remember her almost yelling at me. I want to be with somebody who wants to do that. I felt super upset. I just burst out into tears and I ran into the bathroom.

• 29:13Andrea Gunning?

  This had never come up before. And Devon didn't have any time to think it through because Kai didn't want to wait. She wanted to do it that same night. After that conversation, Kai floated away. They all kept drinking. Soon, everyone moved to the dance floor.

• 29:33Speaker 02

  And the next thing I remember, Sam was dancing with me in a very sexual way that wasn't fully consensual on my part. And I felt so awkward in that moment. And I also didn't really know how to say no.

• 29:50Andrea Gunning?

  Finally, they all left the bar and headed back to Devon and Kai's house. A bunch of their friends were crashing at their place.

• 29:58Speaker 02

  We get home and next thing I know, Sam has jumped into my bed where I was with Kai. And then they just start having sex in front of me.

• 30:09Andrea Gunning?

  Devon felt pressured to join them.

• 30:11Speaker 02

  Because Kai just made this huge deal about, like, you're not the person for me if you don't want to do this.

• 30:18Andrea Gunning?

  So she reluctantly went along with it.

• 30:21Speaker 02

  I remember watching Sam go down on Kai. And I just had this like awareness hit me.

• 30:32Speaker 02

  This is not the first time they've done this.

• 30:51Andrea Gunning?

  One thing I've learned from producing true crime these past few years is that life can change in an instant. Most people never expect to find themselves in a dangerous situation. They're heading home from work, walking the dog, meeting a friend, traveling alone. And they assume it's just another ordinary day until it isn't. That's why I want you to know about Saber Smart Pepper Spray. Yes, it's designed to help protect you, but what makes it different is the connected app. If you're ever forced to use it in an emergency, it can alert your emergency contacts and share your location. So when every second matters, the people who care about you most aren't left wondering where you are. They're not left searching. They're not left guessing. They know where to start.

• 31:35Andrea Gunning?

  We can't always predict the unexpected, but we can be prepared for it. Learn more at saberred.com/betrayal. That's saberred.com/betrayal.

• 31:47Andrea Gunning?

  One night, Devon's girlfriend Kai told her she wanted to have a threesome with their friend Sam.

• 31:54Speaker 02

  And I felt immense pressure to go along with it.

• 31:59Andrea Gunning?

  The next thing she knew, Sam joined her and Kai in bed.

• 32:03Speaker 02

  There was this like weird vibe where it felt as if it was almost like competitive, like who was better at sex.

• 32:10Andrea Gunning?

  But then seeing Kai and Sam have sex, Devon had a disturbing realization.

• 32:17Speaker 02

  The way that they were acting sexually together, it became so obvious in that moment that that was not the first time that they had had sex.

• 32:25Andrea Gunning?

  Devon felt sick and frozen.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  I can still feel it in my body. It just felt like rocks in my stomach. And if I could turn back time, I would have stood up for myself then.

• 32:37Andrea Gunning?

  But in the moment, she felt trapped.

• 32:40Speaker 02

  At some point, it all stopped and then we all went to bed in the same bed. And I just remember like hardly sleeping that night. I just remember laying on the pillow, kind of turned away from them, wondering what I'd just done, what I'd just been a part of, questioning to myself, was I consenting? Was I not consenting? I was super confused.

• 33:03Andrea Gunning?

  The next day was a blur for Devon.

• 33:05Speaker 02

  I felt completely dissociated.

• 33:08Andrea Gunning?

  Something was deeply wrong.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  I'd seen something, but it felt very intimidating to address what had just happened.

• 33:19Andrea Gunning?

  Her gut told her it wasn't safe to confront Kai directly. She didn't have any proof Kai was cheating on her with Sam, just her intuition. So Devon suggested they try couples therapy.

• 33:32Speaker 02

  And she did show up for a session. And I just remember crying through the whole session. And my therapist afterwards, in a session with just me, she said, I don't know how much empathy she has. And hearing a professional say that was really helpful to me because then I started to see things a little more clearly. I realized that the relationship was not working for me.

• 33:54Andrea Gunning?

  Devon had a feeling Kai would not react well to a breakup. So she decided to have the conversation in a public place. She invited Kai to meet her at a restaurant to talk. Once they were seated at their table, Devon took a deep breath and told Kai.

• 34:10Speaker 02

  I really love you. I really tried. I think we both really tried. Our relationship's not working. I think we need to break up. And her response was really short. She just said like, okay, and then got on her bike and left.

• 34:28Speaker 02

  It was jarring.

• 34:29Andrea Gunning?

  Devon left the restaurant feeling uneasy. She went back to their house, but Kai had gotten there first.

• 34:37Speaker 02

  She took a knife and slashed through a kissing picture of us and had faced it out. So it was the first thing that I saw when I came back into the house. She took toilet paper rolls and dropped them in all the toilets. And she wrote on our whiteboard, I'll send my terms.

• 34:56Andrea Gunning?

  Devon didn't know if Kai was coming back. She waited anxiously.

• 35:01Speaker 02

  I was really unsettled that night. I know she had left. I didn't know where she went. I went into my room and I brought a kitchen chair. I wedged the chair up under the door handle. And I also brought the kitchen knife in with me and put it under my pillow. There was a part of me that didn't think she would ever do anything to hurt me. But then there was a part of me that really did not know.

• 35:21Andrea Gunning?

  The next day, Kai returned. They fought about who would move out, Devon or Kai. The truth was neither of them could afford to move out right away. Devon couldn't get away from the feeling that Kai had been lying to her. So she started looking for proof. That's when she found a handwritten note in Kai's room. It was from Sam.

• 35:44Speaker 02

  I actually found a love letter from Sam to Kai that said that she wanted to grow old with her and have their dreams come true. And I also found a video of them making out from when I had gone away for a day trip and they were in our house making out.

• 36:07Andrea Gunning?

  Devon stared at the video and the love letter stunned.

• 36:11Speaker 02

  It was almost like the dissonance that I had been surviving under came crashing together in that moment. I just started shaking. I didn't stop shaking for 12 hours.

• 36:26Andrea Gunning?

  Devin decided to confront Kai. They had already broken up, but she needed to know the truth about what had been happening between Kai and Sam.

• 36:35Speaker 02

  We sat on the white couch, and then I just showed her the video.

• 36:42Speaker 02

  And then she was like, "Oh, well, like, we were just pretending, you know, we were play-acting." And then once she realized I wasn't buying those lies, then she changed it to that was the only time. It was a mistake. That's all we did was kiss, and it was just that one time. At that point, it was just offensive. I was like, "Do you really think I'm that stupid?"

• 37:04Andrea Gunning?

  After that, Devin expected Kai to move out of her own volition. But Kai refused to leave. What followed was a month that Devin describes as one of the hardest of her life. Kai was trying everything to get Devin to stay with her. She was emotionally volatile, alternating between extreme affection and manipulation. Devin was scared of her, but she was also stuck living with her. She felt trapped.

• 37:31Speaker 02

  Kai would fluctuate between trying to get me to stay with her and even initiating sex. And in that month, I felt emotionally unsafe, physically unsafe, but I also felt sexually unsafe.

• 37:45Andrea Gunning?

  Eventually, Kai decided to move out, but on the day she came to pick up the last of her things, she had a breakdown.

• 37:53Speaker 02

  She proposed to me on a whim and starts like crying, and then very quickly changes her demeanor into this like very angry, cold person. And then I hear this noise, and I look out the window, and she's smashing her guitar in the driveway. I got scared, and so I locked the door. And she says, "Hey, I don't have my keys. I need to come in and get my keys." And I paused because I didn't feel safe. And then she's like, "No, no, I just need to come in and get my keys." And so I unlock the door, and she pushes it open, and then she stands right in front of me. And her eyes changed. They got very cold.

• 38:38Speaker 02

  And she said, "I didn't leave my keys." I actually felt chills at that moment. I just, I knew she wasn't safe, and I knew if I poked her in any way, I was not going to be safe.

• 38:51Andrea Gunning?

  Devin stayed calm until Kai finally left. When she was alone, she slumped to the ground and began to cry. She'd been with Kai for almost three years, but below the sadness, there was anger. Anger at Kai and anger at Sam, who she had considered a friend. She decided to send Sam a message.

• 39:15Speaker 02

  And I said, "I'm so hurt that you did this, that you kind of inserted yourself into my relationship with Kai. I don't know how you could do this to me and pretend to be like a friend to me."

• 39:26Andrea Gunning?

  It was cathartic to get some emotion out. When she didn't hear from Sam for a few weeks, Devin assumed that was the end of it. Months went by, until one day, Devin got a notification.

• 39:39Speaker 02

  I get a message from Sam that says, "Thank you for reaching out to me. Your message helped me listen to my gut. And if you're willing to, I'd like to meet up and talk about a few things." Because I thought that I was Kai's only girlfriend.

• 39:57Andrea Gunning?

  Devin reread the words, "I thought I was Kai's only girlfriend."

• 40:03Speaker 02

  I was shocked. What Kai had told me was that Sam had inserted herself, she had orchestrated the threesome. It was all her. She was touchy-flirty. You know, Kai wasn't even attracted to her.

• 40:16Andrea Gunning?

  But now, it was becoming clear, that was very far from the truth. Devin and Sam had a lot to talk about, so Devin invited her over to her place. They split a bottle of wine, and for the first time, Devin heard the story from Sam's perspective.

• 40:33Speaker 02

  The last 10 months of my relationship with Kai, when we were still living together, and I thought exclusive and monogamous, Sam was also dating Kai and thought that they were exclusive and monogamous.

• 40:49Speaker 02

  Kai had maintained both of us as her girlfriend, and we both thought we were her only girlfriend for 10 months. At that point, the rage just set in. My blood started to boil because I thought that I had understood the depth of the betrayal, but I hadn't.

• 41:10Andrea Gunning?

  It turns out Kai had been pretending that Devin was her ex-girlfriend.

• 41:16Speaker 02

  Kai had told Sam that she couldn't afford to move out yet, and that's why we had different rooms, that we weren't girlfriends anymore. And that supposedly the reason that we'd broken up was that I had cheated on her with my best friend. The audacity of that lie incensed me. I was infuriated that she would make me out to be the villain.

• 41:41Andrea Gunning?

  Most people, when they're cheating, go to great lengths to keep their partners away from each other. But Kai did the opposite. She brought Devin and Sam together as often as she could, even instigating a threesome. She seemed to enjoy the power that came with being the only one in the know. The more they talked, the more they discovered just how organized and systematic Kai was in her deception.

• 42:09Speaker 02

  Kai had actually synced both of our Google calendars up to her calendar, so she knew where both of us were at any given time, so she could figure out when Sam could be over at the house for them to have sex and me not walk in on them.

• 42:23Andrea Gunning?

  It just kept getting worse and worse.

• 42:26Speaker 02

  I'd stopped being hurt. I was just pissed.

• 42:30Andrea Gunning?

  Devin and Sam realized they'd both been lied to, so they decided to work together to expose Kai.

• 42:38Speaker 02

  I think that that helped reclaim a sense of empowerment.

• 42:44Andrea Gunning?

  If Kai was so willing to lie to both of them, what else was she hiding? Devin and Sam went into investigation mode.

• 42:53Speaker 02

  I wanted to get to the truth, so what I did after meeting with Sam is I actually reached out to everybody that knew Kai and asked if they'd be willing to meet with me.

• 43:01Andrea Gunning?

  Many of Kai's friends agreed. Devin met with them one by one. Slowly, she began to piece together the full picture of Kai's deception. Kai had been lying to Devin from the very beginning, starting with the story she told her about Melissa.

• 43:17Speaker 02

  They had been living together as girlfriends when Kai had started pursuing me. Kai would tell Melissa that I was a student at her college, and she said we were in the same class together and that she was going to go study with me.

• 43:32Andrea Gunning?

  Devin had comforted Kai through the end of her friendship with Melissa. But now Devin realized, that hadn't been a friendship gone wrong. It was a breakup.

• 43:43Speaker 02

  And the car that she would drive was Melissa's car. So when it disappeared, and Kai told me she'd given it to her brother in this like generous gift, she hadn't given it to anybody.

• 43:55Andrea Gunning?

  Kai was following a script, telling each new woman she was pursuing that her long-term girlfriend was just a roommate. And she told her long-term girlfriend that the women she was pursuing were just friends. When her long-term relationship crumbled, she moved in with a new woman and repeated the cycle.

• 44:16Speaker 02

  I really started to see this pattern that she had been using for years, most likely before even Melissa. What was going on with her was deep-seated and cyclical and not going to change.

• 44:33Andrea Gunning?

  As Devin and Sam continued reaching out to Kai's old friends, they found out a lot of them weren't just friends. They'd been hooking up with Kai, too.

• 44:44Speaker 02

  She had been having sex with a number of other people while both of us had been dating her.

• 44:50Andrea Gunning?

  Devin was able to confirm evidence of Kai cheating on her with four other women, though she suspects it's upwards of nine.

• 44:58Speaker 02

  Kai actually brought them not only to our house, but into my bed and used our sex toys. It made my skin crawl. It just felt so violating and so unsafe.

• 45:13Andrea Gunning?

  Kai put Devin's sexual health at risk.

• 45:16Speaker 02

  I was really concerned. I remember scheduling a full sexual health checkup once I found out. I did have a Pap that tested abnormal after this experience, and fortunately, it resolved itself after about a year. It felt like an additional betrayal.

• 45:37Andrea Gunning?

  Devin thought back to the quirks in Kai's behavior that she'd brushed aside, like how Kai was always running late, or why she'd taken down that photo of them kissing while Devin was out of town. Now, it made sense. Kai had other women coming over to their house when Devin wasn't there.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  She just had all of these like flings while she also had these ongoing relationships. So she was good at this. She'd been doing this for a long time.

• 46:08Andrea Gunning?

  Devin and Sam were so outraged, they decided to go straight to the source of all the chaos.

• 46:14Speaker 02

  We actually confronted Kai together. We called her while we were together and she picks up the phone and she's like, "Oh, hey." Like, no emotion, no nothing.

• 46:27Andrea Gunning?

  They told Kai they knew what she'd done to them. They knew about her pattern of pretending her girlfriend was her roommate while she courted someone new, all the people she cheated with, and all the lies she told to cover it all up. They knew everything.

• 46:44Speaker 02

  The reaction that I think we might have been hoping for was some sort of remorse or some sort of accountability and just nothing. It was almost like this chess game. It was checkmate and she didn't really care that we figured it out. At that point, we both got really pissed. We were just chess pieces to her. It almost felt like I stepped out of my real life and I was in a movie about a con artist or something.

• 47:14Andrea Gunning?

  Kai was already on to her next girlfriend. She didn't need Devin or Sam. Then it dawned on Devin, for Kai, this wasn't about love. It was about convenience. Kai had a rotating cast of women helping take care of her needs. It was like musical chairs and she didn't seem to care where she landed.

• 47:36Speaker 02

  I think her con was actually like getting her dog taken care of, having somebody who's buying groceries, having somebody who is maintaining a stable household that she could come and go from.

• 47:51Andrea Gunning?

  Kai would let her girlfriends cook for her, clean up after her, and drive her around.

• 47:58Speaker 02

  It was about having her other needs met, but it was also about having a very respectable looking life so that she could go out and do the stuff she really wanted to do.

• 48:09Andrea Gunning?

  While Kai's girlfriends kept her life afloat, she secretly destroyed theirs. Devin and Sam wanted to break Kai's pattern. Clearly Kai herself was not interested in that, but there was one more person that Devin and Sam knew would be interested in the information they'd gathered: Kai's new girlfriend.

• 48:29Speaker 02

  Sam knew who her next person was because she'd talked about this new person a lot. And neither of us had her contact information. So we actually reached out on LinkedIn. So it was like a few characters. It was like, you know, she's not who she says she is. She dates multiple people at once. Call me if you want any information.

• 48:49Andrea Gunning?

  Devin hit send.

• 48:50Speaker 02

  Crickets for months. And then finally I got a message back from her and she was like, "Hey, I really appreciate you reaching out and it helped me listen to my gut more quickly and end it with Kai. And I don't think I would have seen that so quickly without you."

• 49:05Andrea Gunning?

  It was meaningful to know that they had protected someone from Kai's cycle of deception. It felt like the natural end of Devin's investigation. Now came the next step: her own healing.

• 49:17Speaker 02

  You know, looking back on my journaling of the whole relationship, it's almost like watching a bad horror film where the protagonist is like walking through the house being like, "Hello? Hello? Is anyone here?" You know, and you're like screaming at the screen. They're right behind you.

• 49:36Andrea Gunning?

  Devin began untangling her life and identity from Kai. She invested her energy back into herself, her friendships, and her work. For years, she told herself that the threesome with Sam and Kai was not a big deal and rationalized her own discomfort away. But as time went on, she started to be honest about the impact it had on her.

• 49:57Speaker 02

  I started to perceive it the way I really experienced it, which was not consensually, which was very high on the coercion scale. A lot of alcohol involved. My people pleasing was at an all-time max. I recognized that it was trauma and I did do EMDR specifically around that traumatic event. And I remember when she started, they have you do a scale of one to 10 in terms of activation, and it was a 10. My body went back to that place of feeling powerless and kind of trapped. And by the end of the session, we had it down to a three.

• 50:37Speaker 02

  I'm really grateful that I had the courage to go back into it and try to shift that trauma so it wouldn't live on in me with too much power.

• 50:51Andrea Gunning?

  One day, a couple of years later, Devin was waiting for the subway when she looked up and saw Kai.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  I saw her and she saw me and she walked away from me to the next car. And that felt empowering, like this person who I'd been scared of, who I gave so much power to and so much control to for such a long time, wasn't going to try to manipulate me anymore, didn't even want to approach me anymore.

• 51:21Andrea Gunning?

  When Kai left their apartment for the last time, she said something to Devin that echoed in her brain for years.

• 51:28Speaker 02

  She said to me, "Nobody's ever gonna love you like I do." And for a moment, I questioned if she was right. Like, I didn't know what a healthy relationship looked or felt like. Maybe that was the best I was gonna get. And then I just had this strong, strong no take over my body.

• 51:46Andrea Gunning?

  Like always, she used her journal to help her envision the kind of relationship she did want.

• 51:53Speaker 02

  I wrote, "I will have a healthy, loving partnership with someone I love and I trust we will communicate and seek to know each other deeply. She's out there. I just have to stay on the path and let the universe know that I'm ready."

• 52:06Andrea Gunning?

  It's been over a decade since Devin's relationship with Kai. Today, Devin has that loving partnership she imagined.

• 52:13Speaker 02

  I found her. I found her and I have a six-month-old baby. And if I'd listened to what Kai said back then, I wouldn't have. And I'm very grateful to have the life that I have now.

• 52:30Andrea Gunning?

  We end every weekly episode with the same question. Why do you want to share your story?

• 52:37Speaker 02

  It takes a lot for me to get to a place of anger, but I will have my own back when it comes down to it. I think as women, we are socialized to doubt ourselves and to go along to get along. This experience was an invitation to really learn to trust myself. I learned what the feeling of intuition is in my body and I also learned how bad it feels to shove it down.

• 53:17Andrea Gunning?

  On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly...

• 53:19Speaker 02

  I just felt like all the breath had been stolen out of my body. How do we have these completely different stories? Do I have my own story wrong?

• 53:39Andrea Gunning?

  If you'd like to share your story on Betrayal, please email [email protected]. That is [email protected]. Please note that we are not a mental health organization. If you are in crisis or currently experiencing domestic violence, we encourage you to seek local help or dial 911. Please contact organizations that offer immediate support. In our show notes, we've included a list of US-based resources. You can follow us on Instagram @betrayalpod or find me @itsandrea gunning. To access our newsletter and additional content and to connect with the Betrayal community,

• 54:22Andrea Gunning?

  join our Substack at betrayal.substack.com. We're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five-star reviews go a long way. Big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Olivia Hewitt. Our story editor is Monique LaBord. Also produced by Ben Fetterman. Our associate producer is Lea Jablow. Production management by Kristin Melchurey.

• 55:07Andrea Gunning?

  Booking support by Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ally Perry and Jessica Krychek. Audio editing by Tanner Robbins with additional editing and mixing by Matt Talbekio. Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by MyMusic. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen, we're all trying to save for something. For me, I love to save up for a really nice vacation and maybe put some money aside for a new car. It's always nice having something to look forward to and knowing you're actually making

• 55:50Andrea Gunning?

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• 56:23Speaker 01

  OnePay is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by Coastal Community Bank or Lead Bank, members FDIC. Cash back is earned as points. Go to onepay.com/rewards/terms for redemption options and additional details.

• 56:38Speaker 03

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• 57:07Speaker 04

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• 57:12Speaker 05

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• 57:14Speaker 06

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• 57:15Speaker 05

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• 57:18Speaker 06

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• 57:20Speaker 04

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• 57:38Speaker 07

  I felt a jackhammering pain in my jaw. Like someone saw in my bones. Barbed wire in my shoulder.

• 57:45Speaker 04

  Like a cattle prod in my hip.

• 57:46Speaker 03

  Like I put my foot in a blender.

• 57:49Speaker 05

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• 58:28Speaker 05

  To learn more about Gernavix, ask your doctor, call 1-833-589-PAIN, or visit gernavix.com.

• 58:38Andrea Gunning?

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.