Written by a model from the transcript; not yet reviewed.
Esther Perel speaks with a guest who moved from the UK to South Africa at age eighteen, spent ten years there in a church community, and recently relocated to France. The guest struggles with dating apps, anonymous hookups, and a recurring pattern of seeking out emotionally unavailable men while feeling exhausted by intimacy. During the session, they explore how the guest learned to care for others at the expense of their own needs—initially taking care of a demanding sibling and later committing entirely to a religious community before being expelled for asking questions. Perel helps the guest unpack how extreme self-sufficiency, lifelong loneliness, and a deep-seated fear of vulnerability have created an internal wall, leading to a cycle of heavy self-criticism and isolation.
Esther welcomes listeners and introduces the episode’s theme of loneliness and identity.
The guest contrasts the communal, supportive atmosphere of South Africa with the individualistic, exhausting environment of Europe.
The conversation explores how the guest’s family relationships and expectations foster silence and self‑sacrifice.
The guest discusses past therapy, current struggles with acceptance, and the desire to find a supportive therapist.
Esther and the guest reflect on the importance of naming feelings, seeking help, and moving toward healthier relationships.
Exhausted by the Dating Sceneinsight
The guest describes the exhaustion and addictiveness of navigating dating apps in a big city. They express sadness over feeling trapped in a relentless spiral.
Cultural Shift to Individualismstory
The guest explains how moving from community-centric life in South Africa and West Africa to individualistic Europe caused a major shock and withdrawal.
Relying Exclusively on Appsstrategy
The guest explains why they avoid traditional gay spaces and rely entirely on dating apps, leading to endless downloading and deleting cycles.
Examining Racial Preferences in Datingdebate
The guest brings up a conscious awareness that they have only dated black men, questioning whether something is wrong with them for having this preference.
Escaping Responsibility Through Hookupsinsight
The guest admits that hookups provide a relief where they do not have to carry the emotional responsibility and caretaking required in a real relationship.
Confusing Love and Careinsight
Esther Perel points out that the guest grew up believing that being needed equals being loved, a tacit pact formed within their family dynamic.
Betrayal by the Church Communitystory
The guest recounts how questioning the church's positions in 2020 led to being canceled and ostracized overnight after ten years of building community.
The guest recalls the pastor telling them that if they did not like the boat, they should get out, which ultimately forced their departure.
“I think there's a sense of me which is just tired, is tired of trying and is tired of the sort of like rejection of it and the addictiveness of it.”
“I don't want that, but it just feels like that's sometimes the only thing that's on offer.”
“I feel like I have everything I ever wanted. I had my dream house, my car, my life, everything I could ever want.”
He comes to Esther not with a singular question but with an overflow of words and unspoken truths. Betrayed by a once-supportive church and struggling to reconcile his desires with his emotions, he carries a loneliness that has followed him across continents. This session is all about naming. Naming the parts of his life, the feelings left unspoken, and the longings that ache in his heart. Esther Callings are a one time, 45-60 minute interventional phone call with Esther. They are edited for time, clarity, and anonymity. If you have a question you would like to talk through with Esther, send a voice memo to [email protected]. Producer’s Note: When our anonymous guests do a session with Esther for the podcast, it is an act of generosity for everyone who listens. These sessions are meant not only to support the people in the room with Esther, but all of us who learn from their stories. Our stories have many chapters, and what you hear is just one moment in someone’s journey. So even though the sessions are anonymous, please remember that real people are behind them and they may be reading your comments. Also, please join me on Entre Nous, my new home on Substack for anyone who wants to live, love, and work with more connection and imagination. I invite you to sign up and become a free or paid member at estherperel.substack.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
7,143 words · 5 speakers
Speaker names marked are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
Page updated · transcript and summary are machine-generated