Pod Insights Stuff You Missed in History Class Behind the Scenes Minis: Stairs and Trains About this episode Tracy talks about her visit to the Bunker Hill monument. She then describes a very early morning start when she went to visit Oxford on her recent trip to England.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
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1:14 Tracy V. Wilson? Robert, Mick, Bill, and Jessa strut back down memory lane for season two, sharing lessons on life, love, and loss. These are the kind of insights that only come from experience. So tune in to Silver Linings with The Old Gays on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
1:33 Holly Frey? We've all tumbled down an internet rabbit hole trying to self-diagnose, and it leaves us more anxious than informed. Our feeds are full of wellness trends, but how do we know what's real, what's exaggerated, and what's just wrong? Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association breaks it all down. Emmy-nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends, not to cancel them, but to understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. So listen to Health vs. Hype wherever you get your podcasts.
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2:44 Holly Frey? Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.
2:54 Tracy V. Wilson? Hello and happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson.
2:57 Holly Frey? And I'm Holly Frey.
2:59 Tracy V. Wilson? This week, we talked about the Bunker Hill Monument because I had a little field trip.
3:04 Holly Frey? I told you I had a question about the field trip.
3:06 Tracy V. Wilson? Please tell me.
3:07 Holly Frey? Did you do the steps?
3:09 Tracy V. Wilson? I did do the steps. I walked up all of those steps. I walked, it was not that bad, but I also walked more slowly than anyone else. I several times moved over to let somebody else go past me. And some of the people that were pushing themselves past me, I then got to the top and they were ready to collapse. So I did do it, but I did it slowly. And then I spent some time up there taking pictures of the view from the top of it. It was a clear but overcast day, so there was a, you could see a long way, which is very nice.
3:46 Tracy V. Wilson? There's also just a terrifying grate in the floor that I refused to step on because I was like, I don't know if that goes all the way to the bottom, but I feel like it does.
3:55 Holly Frey? Yeah.
3:56 Tracy V. Wilson? And so I just don't want to mess with that. And then weirdly, coming back down was a little bit harder because going up periodically, there is a number painted on the face of the step, like 50, 150.
4:10 Holly Frey? Whatever. You can do your fractions.
4:12 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, you can know how much farther you have to go. And then on the way down, all you really have is occasionally there's a little narrow slit window and you can look out and try to estimate how high up you still are. So you're coming down and you don't really know how much longer down you need to go.
4:30 Holly Frey? I immediately wondered because.
4:34 Holly Frey? When I was in Italy in April.
4:36 Tracy V. Wilson? Uh huh.
4:36 Holly Frey? Did you know you can go up on the roof of St. Peter's Basilica?
4:40 Tracy V. Wilson? I did not.
4:41 Holly Frey? You can.
4:42 Tracy V. Wilson? How many steps is that?
4:43 Holly Frey? Well, you could take an elevator up. I think it's like three floors. Or you could take the elevator, but then from the roof, you can go up into the dome.
4:52 Tracy V. Wilson? Okay.
4:53 Holly Frey? Which is like 515 steps or something around there. And I was, we were very debatey. We were leaning towards, but then we saw the entry to the stairwell. It's not open. It's enclosed and it's very narrow. And I was like,
5:11 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
5:12 Holly Frey? I might have a panic attack at step 153 and the, you won't be able to get other people past me because I will just collapse and cry. Cause it's literally so narrow. Like if you and I were passing each other in that like hallway, essentially stairwell. We would have to go like, both of us would have to put backs against the wall to slide through. And I was like, nope, nope, no balloon.
5:37 Tracy V. Wilson? So this is not quite that narrow.
5:41 Tracy V. Wilson? You did have to kind of squeeze to get around people, but you did not have to go like face to face or back to back to do it.
5:47 Holly Frey? Yeah.
5:47 Tracy V. Wilson? I had a small backpack on because I was kind of out for the day doing walking around stuff and I wanted sunscreen and water and all of that. And I felt a little awkward with it trying to let people by or on the way down work around people. So I do not think you would have enjoyed that stair climb at all.
6:07 Holly Frey? Also, I'm lazy. I would be like, stairs, nice. Is there somewhere to get a breezy beverage?
6:15 Tracy V. Wilson? It felt, it was a very warm day that day and it felt cooler inside the monument than it did outside, which I think helped. But when I got home, which after leaving the monuments, going to the two ranger talks that I went to, I walked from there to North Station along the Harbor Walk, which nobody who doesn't live in Boston knows what I'm talking about, but it was a long walk. I kind of went by the Charlestown Naval Yard to get there. And then I got home and I did nothing for the rest of the day.
6:48 Holly Frey? Yeah.
6:49 Tracy V. Wilson? I watched a whole lot of television. So yeah, I went down there because I, I felt like.
6:57 Tracy V. Wilson? When I read these news reports, I was like, okay, the quotes belong there for some reason. I can't tell what the reason is from any of these articles. And that was across the board. Every article I read, I was like, I don't understand what this exhibit is that these have come from. Yeah. Are they all from what exhibit? Are they from different parts of the monument? One of the articles was straightforwardly incorrect and said that the quotes were in the museum that's across the street, which that's not where, I think there might have been one of them somewhere in there, but like, that's, it's not really what was being talked about. Right. And so I just went down there on a Saturday morning to figure it out.
7:40 Tracy V. Wilson? A couple of interesting things besides my climb up the tower that came from that little visit is that according to one of the Ranger talks that I heard, the Marquis de Lafayette, when he did the cornerstone, he put it in the wrong place. And so people came and moved it in the middle of the night so that they would not embarrass him. I don't know if that's, that sounds almost like, you know, unsubstantiated lore to me, but I don't know. Both of the Rangers that did talks while I was there seemed very knowledgeable and to know what they were talking about. And they were both very ready to say, nobody said, don't hold, don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes. Right. Like, they, they seemed to be on board with the, the debunking of things.
8:22 Tracy V. Wilson? So I, maybe that is definitely something that happened, but I wasn't able to confirm it. Also, the Rangers were also talking about a lot of the things that are kind of carried through in this exhibit from the lodge about how liberty has meant different things to different people. Yeah. Between 1775 and now, and how liberty meant different things to the men who were there. Like, people could be fighting for very different ideals. Yeah. But all believing they were fighting for liberty. So that was great. Saw a demonstration of firing a musket.
8:59 Tracy V. Wilson? That was fun. So yeah, it was a, it was a nice, a nice morning. And then not only on a Friday afternoon, but also while I was off of work, visiting my parents, the order came from the judge saying, you gotta stop taking down all of this stuff. And I have not thoroughly read the whole order from the judge, but there was sort of a list of things that had already been removed. It talked about the President's House site, which is covered on the show before. There was a section of things that had been flagged for removal, but not removed yet. And one of them was these quotes from the Bunker Hill Monument. And yeah, I'm sure that there will be an appeal by the federal government of this.
9:44 Tracy V. Wilson? But for now, no more things should be removed from park signs and whatnot under the Restoring Truth and Sanity to American History Executive Order and the Department of the Interior orders that followed it. I did try to get in touch with the National Park Service to ask a couple of questions about like, when for sure was this exhibit created? Because I thought the answer was 2023, but I didn't know for sure. I had a couple of other questions that were just like, who wrote this, these panels?
10:18 Holly Frey? Like, oh, right.
10:19 Tracy V. Wilson? Was it somebody at the National Park Service? Was it a third party or whatever? The response I got was forbidden. You don't have permission to access this resource, which was the result I got when I submitted the rep, the web form. So.
10:32 Holly Frey? Great.
10:34 Tracy V. Wilson? Great. I don't know. Uh, there was no phone number. There was only the web form and a mailing address. I can only speculate about why the quote about suffrage that spawned the whole investigation into the Bunker Hill Monument was not removed.
10:53 Tracy V. Wilson? My speculation is that it was more optimistic in its framing because it was sort of like, "We don't have suffrage yet, but we're gonna get it and this monument is still ours." And some of the other quotes that were supposed to be removed were more critical. Also, before I actually went down there, I had thought that this episode was going to be just about Operation POW and the anti-Vietnam War March that happened. I don't know if that will happen at some point in the future because once I actually saw what that exhibit was trying to do, I was like, "That's a different story now in my head than the Operation POW one." So, yeah.
11:35 Tracy V. Wilson? I have lived within five to 10 miles of the Bunker Hill Monument since 2014 and have seen it out the window every time I have gone to the airport. And now that I live north of Boston, every time I go into Boston for some reason, and I had just never been down there until they were ordered to take down some signs, then I was like, "I gotta go see what that's all about."
12:03 Holly Frey? There you go.
12:04 Tracy V. Wilson? So, yeah. Yeah. There is no elevator, so the top, walking to the top is not accessible to people with mobility issues or physical disabilities. But in the lodge down at the bottom, there is a big screen that has live camera views of the view from the top.
12:25 Holly Frey? Oh, neat.
12:26 Tracy V. Wilson? So like, that's sort of the way of trying to make that accessible when it's really not possible to put an elevator in there or somehow make it not have almost 300 steps.
12:36 Holly Frey? Yeah, that's a good solve.
12:37 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, yeah. And the, like, the lodge is accessible and the museum is accessible and has elevators also. So, yeah.
12:47 Holly Frey? I'm still thinking about, Tracy and I had an aside while we were recording, after recording the Everett quote about-
12:58 Holly Frey? How unlike Egyptian monuments. These would have plaques to explain what they are. And my, of course, off the cuff thing was like, just because you can't read hieroglyphics.
13:09 Tracy V. Wilson? Right.
13:11 Holly Frey? But also, those aren't the same things.
13:13 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, well, yeah. And when they made the Bunker Hill Monument, they intentionally did not put words on it. That was part of the, they, they didn't want it. They, there was a discussion of putting like all the names on it or something like that. And they, and then we're like, okay, we're not putting any words on this. I also, uh, we read the chunk of the dedication speech from Daniel Webster that I, I really liked the sentiment of a lot of the speech. But the part that, uh, saying that it is only religion and morals and knowledge that can make men respectable and happy.
13:51 Holly Frey? Right.
13:52 Tracy V. Wilson? That was not something that I personally agreed with.
13:54 Holly Frey? Well, it's also that, that thing, right? That like, people who are not religious can also have morals.
14:02 Tracy V. Wilson? Correct. Yes. If you have a religion and your religion brings you happiness and you also feel like your, your morals are informed by your religion and that's important to you. I am not criticizing that at all.
14:16 Holly Frey? Cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:17 Tracy V. Wilson? But yeah, the idea that it is only religion and morals and knowledge. I was like, I don't like that part. And just snipping that part out felt dishonest. And also so much of the rest of what we read tied into what I, I feel like the exhibit was trying to do in terms of like, this is not just a monument to a battle that happened. It is a monument to the ongoing work of trying to have a just and informed and fair society. Like, I wanted to include all of that, so.
14:51 Holly Frey? I'm also sure had we asked him if other religions that weren't the one he practiced were ghoul, he would have been like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. So like, obviously there's some hubris and presumption involved.
15:04 Tracy V. Wilson? Correct. Yeah.
15:08 Tracy V. Wilson? So anyway, I'm glad I made that trip to the Bunker Hill Monument. I have no idea what I am going to research next for the podcast. I gotta figure it out now because I was going to do something that was related to the Revolutionary War, but we have had three of those in a row from me now. And I now feel that even though it is the 250th anniversary, that I feel surrounded by 250 stuff, living in Massachusetts. I, I feel personally done with that for now.
15:46 Speaker 04 First thought is like, wow, how are we going to do all this?
15:49 Tracy V. Wilson? Hey, everybody, it's Tracy from Stuff You Missed in History Class. That's Alan Goya, a planning engineer at AT&T. He's talking about Intuit Dome, home of the Los Angeles Clippers, where every seat, screen, phone, and transaction is connected with AT&T fiber and 5G, defining the fan's experience. And Alan's master plan made it all possible.
16:09 Speaker 04 It was good arrival, anything that was already built. And that takes quite a bit of people and different teams to all be on the same page.
16:17 Tracy V. Wilson? That includes Field Services Manager, Drexel Jones. His team made sure it all came together and held up on game day.
16:24 Speaker 05 Through what Alan's whole crew designed, we connected the event visitors to the world.
16:29 Tracy V. Wilson? And after years of hard work and collaboration, it was opening night.
16:33 Speaker 05 To actually see the whole stadium light up and data is flowing is a beautiful thing.
16:37 Speaker 04 What the fans experience is incredible. It gave me a lot of pride.
16:41 Tracy V. Wilson? AT&T, connecting fans to what they love.
16:43 Speaker 06 Connecting changes everything. AT&T.
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17:29 Tracy V. Wilson? you can DIY trusted ADT home security in a snap. Head to ADT.com/BLU to build your system today. And to hear more about home protection and other grown up topics, check out new episodes of Grown Up Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
17:53 Tracy V. Wilson? For any small business owner, there's a moment when you realize the next hire could be the difference between staying busy and actually growing. The challenge is finding the right person without wasting time sorting through candidates who aren't the right fit. That's where Indeed Sponsored Jobs comes in. When workplace chaos hits and you need someone who can step in and make a difference, this is a job for Sponsored Jobs. It helps put your job in front of candidates who match the criteria that matter most to you, whether that's skills, experience, certifications, or location. And you're certainly not alone in using Indeed. Join the 3.3 million employers worldwide that use Indeed to connect with quality talent that fits their needs. That's millions of businesses turning to Indeed
18:36 Tracy V. Wilson? to help solve hiring challenges and find people who can help drive results. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. Get your $75 sponsored job credit today at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now, then this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.
19:04 Holly Frey? We've all done it. Tumble down an internet rabbit hole trying to self diagnose. And sometimes doing our own research can leave us more anxious than informed. Your feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what health versus hype. From the American Medical Association and iHeart Media's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel, and YouTube, talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends.
19:46 Holly Frey? Not to cancel them, not to hype them more, but to actually understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Start asking better questions and listen to Health vs. Hype on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
20:07 Tracy V. Wilson? Guess who's back in the house? The old gays return for season two of Silver Linings, their hit podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with ViiV Healthcare. Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert McMillan and Jess A. have in store this time around. They strut back down memory lane navigating life, love, loss, and everything that shaped them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into song. From leather bars to bathhouses, dance floors to drag brunch, nothing stays off limits. These are the kinds of insights that can only come from experience. So, listen to your elders, honey, and discover the silver linings you can take with you. All sass, zero filter, and decades of perspective from four friends proving that queer joy
20:52 Tracy V. Wilson? only gets better with age on the podcast that never gets old. Listen to Silver Linings, available on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
21:12 Tracy V. Wilson? This week on the show, we talked about Elizabeth Blackwell, a different Elizabeth Blackwell than we have already covered on the show.
21:18 Holly Frey? Yeah.
21:19 Tracy V. Wilson? So, as I said briefly at the start of the show, I heard about this person at the Ashmolean Museum at an exhibition about plants. That was in Oxford. I had made a little plan to go to Oxford from where we were staying, which was Birmingham, on the train. And then I realized that the takes an hour direct trip on the train that existed during the week did not in fact exist on the weekend.
21:47 Holly Frey? Uh oh.
21:48 Tracy V. Wilson? Uh, and I then dithered a lot about whether I was actually gonna go to Oxford because the, the connecting train added just enough travel time that it was like, is this gonna feel too cramped for a day trip? When I would like to be back in time for dinner, since I am here with Patrick and friends who are not going with me to Oxford.
22:08 Holly Frey? Right.
22:09 Tracy V. Wilson? Like to be back in time to have dinner with them. And I finally decided that if I woke up early enough, that I could take the earlier train and not feel cramped, that I would go. And that is what happened. I woke up incredibly early.
22:22 Holly Frey? Terrific.
22:23 Tracy V. Wilson? And then I walked out of the hotel without my hat. And I am a person who really likes to have a hat on in the hot, bright, sunny weather. It had gotten a little cooler by that point, but I have delicate fair skin. And so I wanted to have a hat on. And I had just left the hat behind because the room was dark when I left and I didn't want to wake Patrick up turning on the lights. And I didn't realize that it wasn't in my bag. So the first place that I went in Oxford was the Ashmolean Museum and this flower exhibition. And I felt it was a huge missed opportunity in the gift shop to not have floppy garden
23:06 Tracy V. Wilson? hats, because I would have paid any number of dollars at that point for a floppy garden hat. Aside from the lack of floppy, floppy garden hats in the, in the gift shop. It was a really lovely and interesting exhibit. It talked about sort of how our understanding of plants has evolved over the centuries, different arts about plants, how.
23:32 Tracy V. Wilson? Like how the effort to collect and study plants has had environmental effects, how it's connected to colonialism. Some of the last pieces of the exhibition were works of art by contemporary artists that were really about that. They were about sort of the environmental toll that, that the effort to find and collect and breed plants has had and how in a lot of cases, like the efforts for Europeans or North Americans or whoever to get decorative plants for their gardens has robbed the indigenous people who originally cultivated and raised those plants of them. So it's all very interesting.
24:16 Tracy V. Wilson? And that was the first of, I think, five or six museums that I went to. And one day, I made a route for myself ahead of time so that I would go in a loop and not go way out of my way, like I did in Stratford-upon-Avon, and miss things because I was on the wrong side of town.
24:34 Holly Frey? Do you have a... I'm trying to figure out how to concoct this question because for me, that is too many museums because I'm like, I gotta linger.
24:50 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
24:51 Holly Frey? Like, how do you bake in your linger time?
24:54 Tracy V. Wilson? So...
24:55 Holly Frey? Because I gotta stand there and cry in front of art. That takes time.
24:58 Tracy V. Wilson? Right. So a couple of the museums that I went to were on the smaller side of museums. One of them was the Bodleian Library's Weston Library, which is the only place that's open to visit, I think the only one of their libraries that's open to visitors without a booked tour or an appointment or whatever. And I had not planned far enough ahead to do that. And so that is just two exhibitions on the first floor, not a whole full-sized museum. I went to the History of Science Museum, which is also on the smaller side of museums. And then in the Ashmolean Museum, which I think was probably the biggest of the museums that I went to on that day, I had also just been to the British Museum.
25:42 Tracy V. Wilson? I had been to other museums that have a lot of very similar things in their collections. And so I really prioritized the galleries that were not things that I had just seen of that same era, that same location, whatever, in a different museum somewhere in... England a couple of days before.
26:00 Holly Frey? Gotcha. Did you say hi to the ghost of Mike at the British Museum?
26:04 Tracy V. Wilson? Uh, I, I did not. I also didn't see, there were things that I would have gone to at the British Museum. Had I been planning ahead. The British Museum is also where I really hit a wall in terms of how tired I was, how hungry I was and how hot I was. And I was like, I, I need to sit down and eat food.
26:24 Holly Frey? Did you go to the cute cafe at the top?
26:27 Tracy V. Wilson? Uh, it was full.
26:28 Holly Frey? Gotcha.
26:29 Tracy V. Wilson? So we wound up down at the bottom. The Story Museum in Oxford was a beautiful surprise. I, I had planned to go to three different museums that had things from the, the Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials and the HBO adaptation. It turned out that one of the museums no longer had those things on exhibit, but one of the places that did was the Story Museum. And I was afraid when I went there that I might feel like a weirdo being at a children's museum without any children. I, cause some, some children's museums, I feel are great for adults. But some of them are geared in such a way that like,
27:13 Tracy V. Wilson? it's like everything is too small for an adult to look at. Does that make sense?
27:16 Holly Frey? Yeah. I don't know. I'm short. Maybe it doesn't work.
27:19 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. I've gone to a lot of children's museums and science museums that are like intended for children, but sometimes it, it is like, geared so much for almost a preschool level of engagement that I feel a little like I'm a lot out of place as an adult.
27:37 Holly Frey? Gotcha, gotcha.
27:38 Tracy V. Wilson? But this museum had interconnected through all of the exhibits, things that really were geared toward adult readers who love children's literature.
27:50 Holly Frey? Yeah.
27:51 Tracy V. Wilson? So it felt really welcoming to all ages. A lot of things there that were like, you know, child-sized things where a child can listen to someone telling the story. But there's also taller ones where the adults are also included. And the last exhibit at the Story Museum was called the Story Arcade. And that was a whole exhibit about how storytelling has evolved in video games since video games were first created. And I got very emotional about it. It was beautiful. None of that has anything to do with Elizabeth Blackwell, other than the fact that one of the museums I went to was the one that inspired this whole episode.
28:34 Tracy V. Wilson? For any small business owner, there's a moment when you realize the next hire could be the difference between staying busy and actually growing. The challenge is finding the right person without wasting time sorting through candidates who aren't the right fit. That's where Indeed Sponsored Jobs comes in. When workplace chaos hits and you need someone who can step in and make a difference, this is a job for Sponsored Jobs. It helps put your job in front of candidates who match the criteria that matter most to you, whether that's skills, experience, certifications, or location. And you're certainly not alone in using Indeed. Join the 3.3 million employers worldwide that use Indeed to connect with quality talent that fits their needs. That's millions of businesses turning to Indeed to help solve hiring challenges and
29:18 Tracy V. Wilson? find people who can help drive results. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. Get your $75 sponsored job credit today at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now, then this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.
29:45 Holly Frey? We've all done it, tumble down an internet rabbit hole trying to self diagnose. And sometimes doing our own research can leave us more anxious than informed. Your feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeart Media's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel, and YouTube, talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends.
30:27 Holly Frey? Not to cancel them, not to hype them more, but to actually understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Start asking better questions and listen to Health vs. Hype on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
30:48 Tracy V. Wilson? Guess who's back in the house? The old gays return for season two of Silver Linings, their hit podcast from iHeart's Ruby Studio in partnership with ViiV Healthcare. Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert McMillan and Jess A. have in store this time around. They strut back down memory lane navigating life, love, loss, and everything that shaped them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into song. From leather bars to bathhouses, dance floors to drag brunch, nothing stays off limits. These are the kinds of insights that can only come from experience. So listen to your elders, honey, and discover the silver linings you can take with you. All sass, zero filter, and decades of perspective from four friends proving that queer joy
31:33 Tracy V. Wilson? only gets better with age on the podcast that never gets old. Listen to Silver Linings, available on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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33:18 Tracy V. Wilson? So, I said in the episode that we were going to read a paragraph from Bruce James in The Lives of Eminent Men of Aberdeen. Oh, yeah, yeah. So, it's, as we discussed in the episode, Elizabeth Blackwell was not actually from Aberdeen. That was misinformation that dated back to her lifetime.
33:38 Tracy V. Wilson? But she is the only woman in that book, Lives of Eminent Men of Aberdeen. So here is what he said about women writing books. Quote, "This may be uncharitable, but it is not unnatural, for there is something offensive in a woman putting out a book, except on some such subject as Mrs. Blackwell handled, or on dancing, or cookery, or anything of that kind, which women ought to know about, and will be the more amiable for their knowledge. But when they go the length of writing sonnets, political economy, theories of morals, essays on population, systems of chemistry, and theological discourses, it is perfectly unbearable.
34:20 Tracy V. Wilson? Learned and intellectual women have never been in great estimation with the more judicious of the other sex. Literary men are seldom agreeable companions, but literary ladies are generally allowed to be insufferable. What sort of husbands and fathers they are, who allow their wives and daughters to write for the edification of the public, we do not take it upon us to say, further than that they must have strange notions of what is attractive and amiable and becoming in the female sex, when they do not discourage their literary efforts by every means and their
35:00 Tracy V. Wilson? power and endeavor to keep them in that place in society where they will be least known and most happy. This is not being cruel to genius, for the light of nature and the word of God and the moral constitution of women all combine to show that they are a people who were not sent into this world to shine by their own light, but to be helpmates to the other division of the human family. And the very first instance which the scripture records of a woman's advice being taken about the acquirement of knowledge was followed by the most disastrous consequences."
35:43 Holly Frey? I have a new use for the time machine, but it might not be what you anticipate. I just want to pop up in his house and go bless your heart and then vanish.
35:53 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, so that's, there's just so much in that paragraph and it is simultaneously like to the modern ear. Like it's, it's hilarious, but like it's also the reality that women were living in and what men thought about women and their capabilities. And also he felt the need to have that whole entire thing in a write up of the only woman in his entire book. So I sort of hate him and he is also the source of various of the misinformation. Not the source, but like a popularizer of the misinformation.
36:28 Holly Frey? I do have to wonder though, which is not to say that women were not going through, living in a world where a lot of people held those beliefs. But it does seem like she had enough support of other men that he seems like an especially extreme blowhard on the matter.
36:46 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, yeah, yeah. She did have a lot of scientific men and doctors and you know, people in the royal society.
36:53 Holly Frey? Learned men. Totally fine with what she was doing.
36:56 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, very ready to endorse her book. And then, I mean, we've talked about a lot of other women on the show who have published work from earlier centuries that like have had that kind of introduction by a man to add legitimacy to what they were doing.
37:14 Holly Frey? Yeah, that sounds like he's trying to hedge his bets so that other men don't get mad at him for putting a lady in their man book.
37:22 Tracy V. Wilson? As a side note, another one of the eminent men is Alexander Blackwell's brother, Thomas.
37:29 Holly Frey? Listen, judgment, a little screwy Louie there.
37:33 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah. So a couple of random things that I also had on the list to just mention. What is the Janet Stiles Tyson who corrected a lot of this information about Elizabeth Blackwell's life? According to an interview that I read with her, started on the history PhD that led to this when she was in her mix, her mid 60s. Right on, I like to say.
37:54 Holly Frey? Yeah.
37:54 Tracy V. Wilson? Do it. If you are in your mid 60s and you want to start on a PhD, you have my 100% full support.
38:01 Holly Frey? Yes.
38:02 Tracy V. Wilson? You know, as someone at the age of 51, who was like, I wonder what my later years will look like. I hope doing something awesome, like deciding to go get a PhD. As another, just a random side note about the herbal is that we said plants all the way through the episode. It did include some things that people thought were plants at the time, but are not classified as plants today, which include corals.
38:25 Holly Frey? Oh, right.
38:26 Tracy V. Wilson? And fungi. And I am very curious about how many meanings of the word curious don't exist really today.
38:38 Holly Frey? Yeah.
38:39 Tracy V. Wilson? Like, they're not used to, curious is not used to mean a lot of things that it meant 300 years ago.
38:44 Holly Frey? Right.
38:45 Tracy V. Wilson? I did not go on a quest to see linguistically if there are reasons for how the meaning has evolved in that way. Also, something that cracked me up was that according to the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, there is, quote, "apparently no surviving copy of Alexander Blackwell's new method of improving cold, wet, and clay grounds." I put that into the search bar at archive.org and it's there.
39:15 Holly Frey? Huh.
39:16 Tracy V. Wilson? Uh, so I was not able to trace, like, to figure out where exactly was this volume before archive.org scanned it.
39:27 Holly Frey? Right.
39:28 Tracy V. Wilson? Aside from the fact that it was on microfilm and was part of a big collection of microfilm that was scanned and uploaded to archive.org, so.
39:37 Holly Frey? Oh, so a physical copy might not have survived.
39:41 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah, and it's, it's totally possible that whoever wrote that entry the last time it was updated, that there was no known copy anywhere because that, you know, microfilm was sitting somewhere unscanned. But I did find it funny, so.
40:00 Holly Frey? I have a question.
40:01 Tracy V. Wilson? Yeah.
40:02 Holly Frey? Did you, for any period of time, consider calling it or curious herbal? Since I know in England, they say the H.
40:13 Tracy V. Wilson? Uh, I did not.
40:14 Holly Frey? Just curious.
40:15 Tracy V. Wilson? No, if I had thought about doing it, I probably would have remembered to do it once and then the remainder of the time said it the way I have said it my whole life.
40:24 Holly Frey? Yeah, just thinking of Eddie Izzard saying, because there's a bleeping H in it.
40:29 Tracy V. Wilson? There is an H in it, yeah. Yeah. So, anyway. I had a very good time on the trip to England. There are other forthcoming episodes that probably will be inspired by the trip to England.
40:45 Holly Frey? Hooray.
40:46 Tracy V. Wilson? I emailed myself a number of things that were just the name of someone or something in the subject line and no other context. And then I also took a lot of pictures in museums. And when I got back to work, I had to kind of flip through them because I, I got to this point that like emailing myself from the museums, I got kind of tired of. So I would just take a picture of the, you know, the sign or the object or whatever.
41:13 Holly Frey? Yeah.
41:14 Tracy V. Wilson? And just flip through all of my pictures when I got home to take all that up. Uh, whatever's happening on your weekend, I hope it's great. If you want to make yourself a day trip where you go to a bunch of museums or a bunch of bookstores, I did that this weekend, or just a little adventure, I hope you have the greatest adventure. If your mind is on other things, if your time is required in other ways, I hope all of that goes as well as it possibly can. We'll be back with a brand new episode on Monday and tomorrow we'll have a Saturday classic.
41:53 Tracy V. Wilson? Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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42:40 Holly Frey? A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define In your future, in season seven of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
43:11 Tracy V. Wilson? Long hours, work deadlines, family commitments. You give so much to everyone else. Isn't it time to invest in yourself? The University of Arizona Global Campus is built for working adults with flexible online degree programs designed to fit your life. Your previous education, training, and eligible experience may even help you earn college credit. At UAGC, you can take one accelerated course at a time, helping you move toward your goals in five- and six-week class formats. Visit UAGC.edu today.
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