Matt Smith

Matt Smith has returned! We're speaking about his role of course in HOUSE OF THE DRAGON but also to Happy Sad Confused. To use one Matt's favorite words, he's a legend and this conversation proves it again as he and Josh talk about his complicated anti-hero in HOTD, the early backlash against him as Doctor Who, working with Claire Foy in THE CROWN, his upcoming role in STAR WARS, and of course MORBIUS. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENTS! 6/22 -- Millie Bobby Brown -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:29Josh Horowitz?

  What does it say about somebody when they say Damon Targaryen's their favorite character?

• 0:34Speaker 02

  They've got great fucking taste.

• 0:40Speaker 02

  He's the face of, come on, man. What is, you know, Damon's the fucking coolest character. Doesn't give a ****, man, you know.

• 0:49Speaker 03

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused, begins.

• 0:56Josh Horowitz?

  Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, Matt Smith. Always a charmer, one of the most talented actors out there today. Returning in House of the Dragon in a live taping at the 92nd Street Y. Another fun one. Hey, guys, thanks as always for checking out the podcast. Remember, if you haven't already, what are you doing with your lives? You gotta subscribe YouTube, Spotify, whatever podcast platform you're using. You know what to do. Two episodes a week for about 12 years. There's no end in sight, not while I've got this trusty microphone in front of me and guests willing to, uh, to be charming and amazing like Matt Smith. Um, before we get to the main event, Matt Smith, let me mention as always,

• 1:41Josh Horowitz?

  patreon.com/happy, sad, confused. If you haven't checked it out, if you hear me just talking about it endlessly, week after week and say, I'm gonna skip past that, go right to the episode. I get it, I'm the same way. But I'll say this for the record, Patreon helps me. Make this show. It is a huge factor in what we're able to do week in and week out. So check out our Patreon, patreon.com/happysecondfused. And it's not just about contributing. You get stuff for your money. You get early access, you get bonus content, you get discount codes to live events, you get autographed merch, all sorts of fun stuff. You can ask questions to some of the actors that come on the show and filmmakers. Patreon.com/happysecondfused. And we do have another great live event coming up in just a few days.

• 2:25Josh Horowitz?

  Millie Bobby Brown in New York City, June 24th. We're talking Stranger Things. We're talking in Noah Holmes. We're talking her entire career. She's never done the podcast, so this one's long overdue. Very excited for this. Get your tickets now. The information is in the show bio. You know what to do. Okay. Matt Smith, you know, I say often, one of our favorites, he truly is one of our, one of my favorites, both as an actor and just a, a great personality. You know him from Doctor Who and The Crown. And now in recent years as Damon Targaryen in House of the Dragon. Another iconic role for this guy who always just exudes charisma.

• 3:11Josh Horowitz?

  An unpredictable vibe often in his performances. He could be a leading man. He can be a villain. And with Damon Targaryen, he's kind of a little bit of everything, isn't he? The new season's fantastic. I've seen the first two new episodes of House of the Dragon. It premieres on HBO, June 21st. So there's a little bit of, a little bit of a sneak peek of the, of the season to come. But no spoilers, I wouldn't worry about that. We cover a lot in this episode, including some of his beginnings. Certainly getting Doctor Who at the very young age of 26, the reception he got, which wasn't all that positive at the very beginning. Navigating his post Doctor Who career. The fun bumps in the road with Morbius and Terminator.

• 3:54Josh Horowitz?

  And of course, we talk a little bit about Star Wars, which is around the corner. He shot his role in Star Wars Starfighter, opposite Ryan Gosling. So of course we had to talk about that.

• 4:06Josh Horowitz?

  And he's just, he's also a cinephile and just loves kind of taking in hip hop culture. So this was a really, really, really fun live event at 92nd Street Y. I know you guys are gonna dig it. Um, yeah, if you listen to Happy Say Confused, you know Matt Smith's one of the real ones. So without any further ado, I take you to the live event, 92nd Street Y, me and Matt Smith. Enjoy. Hi, everybody. How's it going? Welcome to the 92nd Street Y. Thank you. Hi, guys. How's it going? Uh, my name's Josh Horowitz. I host a podcast called Happy Say Confused. You're inside of it right now, whether you know it or not. Welcome to Happy Say Confused. Welcome to the 92nd Street Y. I know why you're here tonight. To use one of the phrases

• 4:50Josh Horowitz?

  that this guest uses a lot, we have a legend in the house tonight. Um, I absolutely love and adore him. He's a Happy Say Confused All-Star. Uh, you know him, you love him from Doctor Who, from The Crown, and yes, and yes, as Damon Targaryen in House of the Dragon. We are catching him at a very great moment because the third season of House of the Dragon is about to debut. You'll all be watching, yes? Yeah. Of course you will. Um, please make him feel welcome. He's a veteran of the 92nd Street Y. We're so thrilled to have him back. Give it up for the one and only, the legend, Matt Smith, everybody. Here he is.

• 5:35Speaker 02

  Good evening, New York. Hello, hello. Thank you so much for coming out. Much appreciated.

• 5:43Josh Horowitz?

  My man. Here we go.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  Here we go. I'm just gonna do this.

• 5:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 5:46Speaker 02

  In preparation for the next hour.

• 5:50Josh Horowitz?

  Are you more, more focused on House of the Dragon right now or on World Cup? Matt, be honest.

• 5:55Speaker 02

  The World Cup.

• 5:57Speaker 02

  I was watching the game today and England play tomorrow, which is, um, which is obviously of great importance in my life. I'm, I'm, I mean, I'm a huge, huge football fan.

• 6:07Josh Horowitz?

  That was your first love? Let's be real, right?

• 6:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, probably is my first love in many ways. So, you know, I wish I could say I love them. Here's my way out of answering who my favorite companion is. And I always say, I love them all equally more than each other. But when it comes to football, I can't really, you know, I just love football so much.

• 6:27Josh Horowitz?

  So Timothy Chalamet just said the other day, he was happier about the Knicks winning than potentially winning an Oscar. Would you rather win an Oscar or be a world?

• 6:35Speaker 02

  England win the World Cup, England win the World Cup, man. Yeah, and also, I'm never gonna win an Oscar. I mean, I think that Timmy's in with a chance, but it's like, I think, I think England, look, there's a, there's a long way to go and there's, there's a lot of teams that are better than us, which feels a bit like my acting career, essentially.

• 6:55Josh Horowitz?

  You have to like get rid of the competition, you have to wipe them out.

• 6:58Speaker 02

  Just kill Benedict and Eddie and, and everyone else, all the, all.

• 7:05Josh Horowitz?

  So I did, I did notice when I was listening back to our many conversations, yes, you use the word legend a lot about people that you love.

• 7:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:12Josh Horowitz?

  Who are, who are legends in your estimation? People that you've worked with, like who's, who's the, on the top of the mountain for you? It's probably a long list, but give me a few.

• 7:20Speaker 02

  No, yeah, Karen Gillan's a legend.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  Billy Piper's a legend. Emma Darcy's a legend. Paddy Consign's a legend, Reece Evans is a legend. I've been really lucky with legends, actually. Austin Butler's a legend.

• 7:37Speaker 02

  Josh is a legend.

• 7:38Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, all right. That's what I was waiting for.

• 7:41Speaker 02

  And, no, look, I've been, I've, yeah, I feel so, I've been, it's, I've been really blessed with, I mean, generally speaking, actors are quite nice. I mean, do you find that?

• 7:51Josh Horowitz?

  Absolutely.

• 7:52Speaker 02

  Gen- generally speaking.

• 7:54Josh Horowitz?

  We can name names if you really want to go there. Let's save that for the end.

• 7:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, okay, very good, yeah. So, yeah, but I do think the word legend is bandied around a lot, isn't it? But, yeah, I mean, I've been, I've been, I've definitely worked with some legends.

• 8:08Josh Horowitz?

  So you mentioned a few that you're working with on House of the Dragon. You mentioned Emma, I would imagine Patty, first season, Paddy Consign, amazing. Reece Evans, amazing. Have you found there's a common denominator in this cast? I mean, you all do genuinely. I've done group things with you guys. You do all seem to actually get along. I don't know if that's being in the bunker of an intense experience like this or what, but what have you found that's unique about this cast in particular, among other casts that you've worked with?

• 8:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think I think this show is such a sort of, it's such a beast to make, that there is a real sense, and weirdly, even though there is kind of division with the Greens and the Blacks and all that business, there is a real sense of it being a family. And those, and I mean, I look back with great fondness on those early seasons, on the first season, I say those early seasons, that early season in a way, when we were all in one room, you know, and everyone was together and there was a king that we all kind of liked, even if, you know, I did want to marry his daughter.

• 9:07Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 9:08Speaker 02

  It's a bit weird, isn't it? But you know, but there was a sense of family and I think we've sort of cultivated that. And also, you know, I think there's a great respect among us because there's some, when you look at the younger guys in it, like Tom and Ewan and Fabian, these are, you know, and, and, and there's this, this such great quality in, in that cast and, and props to the casting team because, but you know, it's, it's, it's, it's a brilliant cast of actors, really.

• 9:36Josh Horowitz?

  You say something that struck me too, yeah, because like at the outset, when you signed on, it was kind of like you, you were the big name, Patty's a big name. And then there were like people that like now in subsequent years have become notable because of their work on the show, people like Fabian

• 9:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 9:50Josh Horowitz?

  Tom and Emma.

• 9:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 9:52Josh Horowitz?

  That must be a joy for you as an actor too, to see them. I mean, you saw they had the goods to begin with, but like, I don't know if they're carrying themselves in a different way, but to see their

• 10:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:01Josh Horowitz?

  See their career just rise in front of your eyes.

• 10:03Speaker 02

  It's very interesting. I mean, particularly, I, I, I work so closely with Emma and they, you know, to watch them, it sounds really patronizing and I don't mean to be at all, it's meant as a compliment this, but I remember like, and I hope they don't mind me sort of repeating this story, but on our first camera test, I remember holding Emma's hand and they were, I could feel the sort of energy in them. And, and being in this costume and having this camera and all this stuff. And now, I mean, Emma's just lives and breathes the, the technicality and the craft of filmmaking in a way that is just honestly, that, I mean, they are truly, you know, there's, there's actors that turn up and Emma turns up and is like,

• 10:49Speaker 02

  she's like Jordan. Do you know what I mean? Sorry, she, they, they are like Jordan where it's just like there's such consistency from take to take and it's um, it's amazing to watch.

• 11:00Josh Horowitz?

  So when you, we've talked before a little bit about how you came into the role, but but to talk about it a little bit more, I'm curious, like, look, you'd obviously, you'd done television, you'd done television, very successful television, genre work, was there?

• 11:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:14Josh Horowitz?

  And I know you're not the kind of actor necessarily that like jumps into something immediately, like you labor over the decision a little bit.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  True.

• 11:20Josh Horowitz?

  Did you come close to passing on this, or was this an easy yes?

• 11:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, yeah, well, I mean, there was nothing easy about it, to be honest with you, and it came at quite a sort of difficult stage in my life, my father was ill and there was, you know, there was, that, that, that had a great sort of governance on, on my state of being, really, but, but, um, yeah, look, if I'm honest, I may as well be honest, there's no point, not for me, I, I did, I'm an R, you know, for a number of reasons, because I thought, you know, and maybe still think, how on earth can you follow in the footsteps of something that has been essentially a cultural phenomenon, really, in Game of Thrones, and the way it was told, and the success it had, and the

• 12:08Speaker 02

  scale and the scope, and also the way television was consumed then is slightly different. Um, and I just played a prince and, you know what I mean?

• 12:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 12:18Speaker 02

  And he was blonde as well.

• 12:19Josh Horowitz?

  Did you, you had, you had shared a film with Amelia before, you were in the Terminator film, I don't remember.

• 12:27Speaker 02

  Oh, another classic on the old list. I'm gonna break Morbius out soon as well, aren't we? There goes that Oscar.

• 12:39Josh Horowitz?

  I think, I think you know me well enough to know I have 20 minutes of questions on Morbius in Terminator, a little, a little bit later, but we'll get there.

• 12:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:47Josh Horowitz?

  But my question is, I don't know how well you knew Amelia, but is that someone that you went to when you were considering this?

• 12:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did, I had, yeah, yeah, I mean, in, in a brief way, but I have to say, I didn't know Amelia particularly well, but I did, I did sort of ask her about the people involved and Amelia was, was obviously very, and now it's so weird, isn't it, Amelia's technically my sort of, in, you know, theatrical terms, great, great, great, I, I don't know how many greats down the line, does anyone know that, how many great, great, great granddaughters they are, that Amelia is? No. Tough one, isn't it?

• 13:21Josh Horowitz?

  You call yourselves fans.

• 13:23Speaker 02

  Unbelievable. There's just people walking around with their arms in the air.

• 13:29Speaker 02

  Madhouse, isn't it?

• 13:32Josh Horowitz?

  What did she, so what did she say to you? Did she give you kind of?

• 13:35Speaker 02

  No, yeah, she, I mean, she was very encouraging about her experience and I think, I think, you, you know, in many ways, I think for those guys, I remember being on, it sounds really stupid, but being on a panel at Comic Con was the evening, not the evening standard, the Entertainment Weekly Newcomers Panel, and I was there with Kit and he was making this, I was doing Doctor Who, and he was making this show called Game of Thrones. And I just remember the Game of Thrones guys had the really nice hotel and at the BBC, we were given like a cup of tea and a biscuit and like made to run to work, do you know what I mean? And, you know, those days are gone, but, um, and I remember, you know, and then it became

• 14:18Speaker 02

  this huge thing and it's, I guess my point is, I think to them, that experience was probably formative and they have the same, uh, love and sort of a sense of wonder about it that, that, that I hold about Doctor Who in a way.

• 14:33Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 14:33Speaker 02

  Because I was 26 and that just sort of changed my life in such a profound way.

• 14:37Josh Horowitz?

  You, you mentioned kind of early days with, with Emma. I mean, it was, it was an unusual first season and the way they structured it and thank goodness it worked out, but you're playing obviously, obviously two different actors.

• 14:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:47Josh Horowitz?

  Playing Rhaenyra.

• 14:48Speaker 02

  Supergirl.

• 14:49Josh Horowitz?

  Did you screen test with both, yeah, especially given the relationship?

• 14:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:52Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, with both Millie and Emma, like, were you the one?

• 14:55Speaker 02

  No, no, no. Um, they were both cast, so, yeah, I mean, I didn't test with anyone actually, really. Yeah, I just tested on my own and, um, and then we were all just kind of pieced together. But, um, it was, it was, I, I, I, I mean, I know, I'm aware that some people weren't keen on that, but as an acting experience for me, that was amazing.

• 15:14Josh Horowitz?

  Most of it.

• 15:15Speaker 02

  These two amazing actors and actually it really lent to two sort of different energies, actually, you know, and, and the difference of sort of youth and age and there, I, I found it really, really, really interesting.

• 15:28Josh Horowitz?

  So let's talk a little bit about season three. I've seen the first two episodes. It gets off to an amazing, fantastic start. You probably, you guys have probably heard that there's, I mean, to say an epic battle is the understatement of the year. But I think I would imagine it's also refreshing for you. I mean, you talked a little bit about season two. I remember we talked like, you're kind of off on your own in a lot of that season and this season seems like you're back into the mix a little bit more. Did you find it, I don't know, reinvigorating to kind of like have more with Emma and other characters as opposed to being on this kind of vision quest? For, for Damon?

• 16:01Speaker 02

  I did. Yeah, there you go. It's about the right response, isn't it? I think. I, I did. Look, I thought, you know, you don't want to get yourself to say too much, but yes. I feel like in the first season, I really recognized who Damon was. In the second season, whilst it was the right idea, I think perhaps the sort of the notion of it, the experience, it could have been, I think dramatically you could have pushed him a bit further and, and explored it. A bit more on some level, you know, so to be back in, in, back with the gang and back, you know, at war and back.

• 16:39Speaker 02

  You know, in, in what I believe to be a more sort of, um, sort of true personality was, was, yeah, was, was good. And, and honestly, just on a practical level, to be back with your friends.

• 16:52Josh Horowitz?

  Of course.

• 16:53Speaker 02

  And not just a goat.

• 16:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm like, why is there a goat? I know. Yeah, but why is there a goat? Well, I don't know. Well, you fucking better know, because there's a fucking goat walking around.

• 17:06Josh Horowitz?

  What, what does it say about somebody when they say Damon Targaryen's their favorite character?

• 17:11Speaker 02

  They've got great fucking taste.

• 17:17Speaker 02

  He's the face. Come on, man. What is, you know, Damon's the fucking coolest character. Doesn't give a fuck, man, you know?

• 17:26Josh Horowitz?

  Why do you, I mean, beyond just it being the Matt Smith magic, why do we forgive Damon? Despicable choices, you think?

• 17:35Speaker 02

  Well, I think it speaks to a broader question, like, and, you know, just to talk about me a bit more, like.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  I, um, yeah, and I, I can compare it, like, I, I, I, I played Patrick Bateman in a musical.

• 17:49Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 17:50Speaker 02

  And, and, and, you know, I sort of, there was something, the, the great challenge of it was going, well, if by the end you can go, I kind of feel sorry for him, there's something, what a wonderful challenge. And I think generally, if you look at a lot of characters I've played, there's a sort of, not feel sorry for him, but I, I, I mean, I don't know. I think in, in a way, that's the sort of challenge. And Damon is, for all intents and purposes, he, what, he, he, you know, he's wrong a lot of the time, but he thinks with great faith that he's making the right choice.

• 18:21Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 18:22Speaker 02

  Now, that doesn't stand up, you know, a lot of bad people throughout the year, you know what I mean?

• 18:27Josh Horowitz?

  Thought they were justified in their choices.

• 18:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, you know, and, and it's, but there's, the, the, I think in honesty, I, I sort of view him for a slightly more romantic lens than most.

• 18:38Josh Horowitz?

  Do you view his like motives as pure when it comes to like protecting, propping up Rhaenyra?

• 18:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that there's a sense of real destiny that he truly believes. And it's about an umbilical type of love that is in his mind, you know? And now, that's not to say that he's, that you can forgive his behavior, but it, it's, it's, it's just interesting because it's like, you find yourself literally defending these people.

• 19:04Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 19:05Speaker 02

  You know, because, and, and a lot of the stuff they do is indefensible, but it's your job in a way to, to sort of do that.

• 19:11Josh Horowitz?

  Totally.

• 19:12Speaker 02

  Because you're protecting them and you're fighting for them.

• 19:14Josh Horowitz?

  And you're spending little years in the mud with goats.

• 19:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:18Josh Horowitz?

  Thinking about them.

• 19:19Speaker 02

  I know. And also that's when they're at their best.

• 19:21Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 19:22Speaker 02

  You know, and that is my thing with Damon. I'm always, I'm always trying to encourage the people, I'm going, let's push him. Let's make him the worst version he can be.

• 19:29Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 19:30Speaker 02

  Actually.

• 19:31Josh Horowitz?

  It's interesting because like when I talked to Emma about.

• 19:35Josh Horowitz?

  Going into this season before you guys had shot this, they spoke about their character in similar ways, like wanting to kind of like, there's so much goodwill towards Renira now, but like, how much can they push that goodwill with bad actions? I think it's like intrinsic to any actor, you want to kind of test the audience and see how much you can kind of test their limits.

• 19:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, and also, yeah, exactly, and that's why, that's, that's, I think you've just answered it, it's intrinsic to every action where you want to, and then, and push your own limits as well, as a performer, think, you know, you want to, what's that line? It's Jack Nicholson, have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight? In Batman, and it's basically, you know, it was that, I got that line in Morbius, by the way. And they fucking cut it out. I improvised that line, I was like, come on, let's nick that from Big Jack. And they cut the fucker out, can you believe it?

• 20:31Josh Horowitz?

  That was the problem with the movie.

• 20:33Speaker 02

  That was, that would have just changed the whole damn thing. Jesus Christ.

• 20:39Josh Horowitz?

  More shirtless Matt Smith dancing.

• 20:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:42Josh Horowitz?

  Was that your idea too, that scene?

• 20:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, can we, well, no, that was, that was basically, we came back like months later and they were like, wow, I don't want to do this, why don't we whack your top off and get you to dance in the mirror? And I was like, cool, okay, yeah, let's go. Amazing.

• 21:01Josh Horowitz?

  We'll be right back with more Happy Sad Confused.

• 21:08Speaker 04

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• 21:37Speaker 05

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• 22:22Speaker 05

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• 22:39Speaker 02

  I like being in the blood and the mud.

• 22:44Josh Horowitz?

  Do you?

• 22:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think there's something, I don't know, there's something about it. I'm always like, more blood, more blood. Like, my idea for this, the opening shot of episode one was I just wanted, I was like, I just want him covered in blood. And then the audience go, yes, we're back. That's who I know. You know what I mean?

• 23:02Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it's like, I'm in, I'm in a TV show, but I'm in the movies. I'm like, I'm doing the thing. It's like, you know what I mean? Like, putting on the armor, putting in the blood, the wigs. It's like, this is what we all grew up thinking it was.

• 23:14Speaker 02

  Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Again, to go back to Jack Nicholson, you just want to be white paint with a, get a blaster on your thing, walking in and like.

• 23:23Josh Horowitz?

  Can we get a little prince going? Yeah, exactly. Um, I mean, the physicality, obviously, is important to Damon. Do you get as much satisfaction out of like a successful like action sequence as like a meaty speech in House of the Dragon?

• 23:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yes, I think you do. I think, I think what's sort of interesting about it is, one of the challenges in that stuff is, is sort of being, because I'm quite a physical person generally, and I'm quite a physical actor, I would say. And, and sometimes it's hard. I can't sound like I'm moaning here, but I'm always trying to get out of the armor in a way because then you can see the body, do you know what I mean? Then you can feel the sort of person. But sometimes when you're in that, it's it's it's kind of hard to sort of tell a story with your body in in the armor. But I think there is great, you know, he's it's it's yeah, there's there's a good, there's a pleasure in doing that stuff. Well, absolutely.

• 24:16Josh Horowitz?

  So what is what is your relationship with like you've dealt with fandoms before over the years?

• 24:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:21Josh Horowitz?

  And like, it must be unusual. I'm always fascinated when actors are in something where you can't possibly know as much about Game of Thrones than many of the people that come up to you that have like lived and breathed.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  Oh, I absolutely don't. Yeah.

• 24:33Josh Horowitz?

  Is that is that an unusual place to be where people come up to you and maybe reference things that you don't even know?

• 24:38Speaker 02

  No idea of. Yeah, no, no, it's not actually. Um, because, I mean, you know, I think there was a lot of things I've been in. I was, I mean, I'd never seen an episode, one single episode of Doctor Who before I got here. But then I watched them all and and I sort of fell in love with Doctor Who. And but the lore of that is so great as well. And it was, I mean, I've watched Game of Thrones, but I haven't consumed all of the literature. And um, I think it's amazing people that have. I mean, my friend Scarlett, she's she's uh, I think she's 21 now, and I've known her since she was a little girl. And um, she's she's uh, you know, there's a there's a kind of writer friend of mine, a great writer called Simon Stevens. And it's his daughter, and she's consumed everything. And I bring her to the set, and then she was like, well, that's not right.

• 25:24Speaker 02

  And you shouldn't be doing that. And you know what's happening at next year? And I'm like, oh, really? But she's literally all of it, all like every novel.

• 25:31Josh Horowitz?

  She's your tech advisor, you like?

• 25:33Speaker 02

  Pretty much, yeah.

• 25:34Josh Horowitz?

  So we we know there's there's this season eight episodes of this season.

• 25:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:38Josh Horowitz?

  And there's one more season. So it's that's kind of like luxury as an actor to kind of know the endpoint and the creators to kind of build towards this end.

• 25:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:45Josh Horowitz?

  And again, reading George Martin's work, it's out there. We know ostensibly where what happens.

• 25:52Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 25:53Josh Horowitz?

  Like, have you talked to Ryan, the showrunner, the writers about sort of like how much it's going to line up with what George wrote?

• 25:58Speaker 02

  Tell me nothing, man, because, I mean, what's what's interesting is like, you know, it's going to happen, but you you don't know what strand they're going to choose.

• 26:05Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  Do you know what I mean? And they could they could they could take a story any which way they want to, to be honest with you. And so, you know, ostensibly, I know where it's going, but do I knew? But I I don't know the story that they they they want to tell about Damon.

• 26:20Josh Horowitz?

  Is there anything before all is said and done that you are advocating for to do as Damon?

• 26:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, there's quite a lot that I would like to happen, but I'm not in control sadly. I know which ways I'd like to take it, of course, yeah.

• 26:35Josh Horowitz?

  Can you hint at anything that you'd like to see? You're not in control, so it doesn't matter if it happens or not.

• 26:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I know. Well, yeah, I mean, but I mean, also in in terms of tone or character sometimes.

• 26:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 26:46Speaker 02

  About going, well, how do you see him and how do I see him and how do, you know, but, but, you know, the truth is that that's, that's, that's not my job.

• 26:54Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 26:54Speaker 02

  On this, much as I would like to influence that, it isn't, it's, um, that's, that's up to the guys who write it and, and, and, and it's, it's their story to tell.

• 27:04Josh Horowitz?

  All right, so let's go, go backwards now. Um, we have the luxury of time. You're probably the most interesting Matt Smith ever. Like, your, your name is the least interesting thing about you.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  Yes. Cause there is, you know, there's this thing in England, there's, there's this place called England.

• 27:21Josh Horowitz?

  You're from England?

• 27:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm from England. It's a, it's another country. And there's this thing called Equity where, so if you're an actor and you're called Matt Smith and there's another Matt Smith, when you join Equity, you're not allowed to call yourself Matt Smith. I'm just trying to get my name into every sentence that I say. So there was this other Matt Smith, who's a, who's a TV presenter, sports presenter, a football presenter of all things, the bastard. And so then they were like, well, you've got to, you know, change your name to like, that's why people change their name.

• 27:52Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 27:52Speaker 02

  And I was like, well, I'm not changing my name. I just didn't join for years. But then I wasn't part of the union and blah, blah, blah. But so thank you.

• 27:58Josh Horowitz?

  There was, there was no alternate name you considered just to differentiate yourself?

• 28:01Speaker 02

  Cause that's my name. What would I be like?

• 28:03Josh Horowitz?

  I get it. Yeah, yeah.

• 28:04Speaker 02

  Matt Power.

• 28:09Josh Horowitz?

  I think he's an adult film star.

• 28:10Speaker 02

  I know. No, I just think wasn't that, didn't Homer change his name to Max Power once? Homer Simpson did, he did. He did climb the mountain.

• 28:19Josh Horowitz?

  Do you have any nicknames? Do people just call you Matt?

• 28:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've got a few.

• 28:21Josh Horowitz?

  What do you got?

• 28:22Speaker 02

  Smithy. Uh, well, there's, you know, some I can name, some I can't. Um, but you know, I'm, I'm, I'm from a kind of friendship group where we have multiple nicknames.

• 28:32Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 28:32Speaker 02

  Do you know what I mean? People have got like four or five.

• 28:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  And I've got quite, quite a few actually, yeah.

• 28:38Josh Horowitz?

  Um, okay, well, our conversations often devolve into talking about movies because you're a cinephile like me and we were similar ages.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  I mean, we just did that. We just basically did a podcast in there.

• 28:48Josh Horowitz?

  We cast the new James Bond. We basically batted around every potential name.

• 28:51Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. The people are back.

• 28:56Josh Horowitz?

  You're the only one that sees that. I don't know what you're talking about.

• 28:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know.

• 28:59Josh Horowitz?

  So what were, did you have any movie posters on your wall as a kid?

• 29:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I had the mask because I was, um, I was obsessed with Cameron Diaz getting out of the car. She was my, like, super crush, actually.

• 29:10Josh Horowitz?

  Powerful, yeah.

• 29:11Speaker 02

  And then, um, I mean, I was, I was obsessed with, like, I start, there was this shop, this local shop, and you could go and you could rent movies out. And so I would go and I used to just, I was obsessed with kind of Kung Fu movies.

• 29:23Josh Horowitz?

  I've heard that. You said ninja movies.

• 29:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, ninja movies.

• 29:26Josh Horowitz?

  Like, what ninja movies? Like Three Ninjas, the kid movie?

• 29:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, pretty much. I mean, I wish I could think back and remember, but I was, and I'd watch them again and again. And, and, and it's only looking back that I realized how obsessive I was about films as a kid. I used to rack up these huge finds at Blockbuster.

• 29:42Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, same.

• 29:43Speaker 02

  What a missed opportunity Blockbuster was, man.

• 29:45Josh Horowitz?

  I know.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  I used to love going into Blockbuster, man. The design, and then there'd be like thirty copies of the new movie that came out.

• 29:53Josh Horowitz?

  I bet, honestly, in this day and age, I bet it comes back.

• 29:56Speaker 02

  Really?

• 29:56Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know if it'll be called Blockbuster, but there is a thirst, I feel like, for that experience again.

• 30:00Speaker 02

  Maybe, yeah.

• 30:01Josh Horowitz?

  Maybe it's just us old people. I don't know.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  But there was something beautiful about going to a movie shop, wasn't there, and renting a movie. And then, yeah, I used to.

• 30:08Josh Horowitz?

  I would, I would beg for, like, the posters or standees. Like, I, I would get some, I remember the Batman Returns posters I got.

• 30:15Speaker 02

  Oh, that was a, that was a banger, mate. That's a great film.

• 30:19Josh Horowitz?

  Great film.

• 30:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:20Josh Horowitz?

  Um, you have a, a real love for the erotic thriller. Do you guys know this Matt Smith really loves a good erotic thriller?

• 30:26Speaker 02

  I do, I do, actually, yeah, yeah.

• 30:28Josh Horowitz?

  So what's your, what's your, like, top four? I know Letterboxd does top four movies of all time. What's your top four erotic thrillers?

• 30:34Speaker 02

  Erotic thrillers?

• 30:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:36Speaker 02

  Well, do you know, do you know, okay, for instance, like, I don't know if you could call it an erotic thriller, but you kind of could. I watched Species again the other day, which I just loved. Top to toe, love.

• 30:49Josh Horowitz?

  It's thrilling and it is erotic.

• 30:50Speaker 02

  Erotic, so it's technically, I guess, it's in there.

• 30:54Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, species.

• 30:55Speaker 02

  Species is in there. I mean, look, I don't know if you could call it a sort of erotic thriller, because it's not really a thriller. I mean, you've got, it was those movies like Basic Instinct, Unfaithful, Indecent Proposal, it's not really erotic thriller, but there was, there was something, I loved that movie.

• 31:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 31:13Speaker 02

  You know.

• 31:16Josh Horowitz?

  Disclosure is one you could think of, yeah.

• 31:18Speaker 02

  With Demi Moore, Slither with Alec Baldwin, classic, that's a classic.

• 31:24Josh Horowitz?

  Sliver you mentioned more than the people that were actually in it, just for the record.

• 31:28Speaker 02

  Slither I loved, because I was getting, um, Copycat, like, I was getting these, um, Single White Female, The Hand That Rot the Cradle, like, I was, I was going and renting these, and it was completely inappropriate as well. I was renting movies that were just so inappropriate to me. And you know the movie that really fucked me up? I went to see, I went round to my friend's house called Shaun's, and his older brothers were there. And we watched, I think it was Friday the 13th, where, which is the one where you get stabbed through the bed?

• 31:55Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, I don't know, but, okay.

• 31:56Speaker 02

  One of them, and that just ruined me. And then my dad phoned them up and like, you've got to stop letting him watch scary movies, which was really embarrassing.

• 32:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 32:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I've recently got into horror a bit more.

• 32:06Josh Horowitz?

  You're, okay, you're into horror now. What, like, so were you into other genre stuff outside of that? Like, were you into, like, Lord of the Rings? Were you into James Bond as a kid?

• 32:14Speaker 02

  Uh, no, I wasn't really into James Bond or, or, um, I, I mean, I went to watch Lord of the Rings, I went to watch two and three back to back in the cinema at the midnight screening.

• 32:24Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 32:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was six hours long.

• 32:26Josh Horowitz?

  They're long, they're long.

• 32:28Speaker 02

  It was, but, um, I think those films are masterpieces, actually.

• 32:31Josh Horowitz?

  I'm surprised we have not had Matt Smith in a War of the Rings, a Bond, or a Harry Potter. How is this possible? None of those.

• 32:38Speaker 02

  The bastards haven't asked me, have they? I mean, okay, here's a, here's a tough one for you. I could, by the way, I could do this all day. Top. Top five is hard, but trilogies.

• 32:49Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, trilogies, that's interesting.

• 32:51Speaker 02

  Right, like Indiana Jones.

• 32:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I mean, you could argue, though, that unfortunately there are five now, but yes, the first three are trilogy.

• 32:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, the first three. I mean, The Godfather, but three.

• 33:00Josh Horowitz?

  I defend three. It's not as good as the first two, but it's good.

• 33:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's good. It's still good.

• 33:04Josh Horowitz?

  Back to the Future.

• 33:04Speaker 02

  Back to the Future's in there, a hundred percent. The Bourns.

• 33:07Josh Horowitz?

  Which ones?

• 33:08Speaker 02

  The Bourns.

• 33:09Josh Horowitz?

  The James Bourne?

• 33:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 33:10Josh Horowitz?

  I think they're more in three now.

• 33:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, but take the three, you know.

• 33:14Josh Horowitz?

  Just take the, cut it off after the first three? The Dark Knight trilogy you could do?

• 33:17Speaker 02

  Dark Knight, Star, I mean, there's a lot, but those first three, it's tough, isn't it?

• 33:23Josh Horowitz?

  Very interesting, okay.

• 33:24Speaker 02

  The Lord of the Rings are in there anyway.

• 33:26Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, definitely. Um, okay, so charting your career path, the first five, six years coming out of school, theater, basically, mostly a lot of theater, like that's really where you're focused. Are you imagining, like, coming to Hollywood? Are you coming to LA? Are you doing the LA thing then, or did that come later?

• 33:42Speaker 02

  I think we've all imagined coming to Hollywood, darling. I mean, no. Yeah, um, I don't know really. No, I was just.

• 33:50Josh Horowitz?

  Like, what was the career you imagined for yourself? Like, if I see you at, like, 2006 or something, you know, when you're kind of, I think mostly doing theater then.

• 33:57Speaker 02

  I was just, I remember I did a play at the Royal Court. It was called Fresh Kills. It was an American play, based in New York, actually. And I just could not believe, it sounds really, you know, wanky, but I could not believe I'd go to the cash point and there'd be money in it. And I'm like, whoa, you're paying me.

• 34:15Josh Horowitz?

  To do this?

• 34:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, and, and, and, um, I don't know really. I, I always wanted to work for the BBC.

• 34:21Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 34:22Speaker 02

  I mean, I sat down with my dad, God love him, he's gone now, and I remember being sat down in the kitchen, I sort of, I wanted to go to the National Theatre. I had a plan. I was like, I want to work there. And I knew I wanted to work at the BBC and go and, you know, be on the telly or whatever. And then, you know, and, and the truth is, I've still got, you know, probably ambitions beyond my talents, but I think it's good to have.

• 34:45Josh Horowitz?

  To be gold driven, to have.

• 34:46Speaker 02

  Big dreams, you know, this is, I think it's, you know, I mean, I'm forty three, but there's that, there's a, there's a lot I want to achieve in this, in this line of work still.

• 34:54Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it is a fascinating, you alluded to this, you're cast as Doctor Who at a very young age. You were the youngest Doctor Who, I think twenty six years old.

• 35:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:03Josh Horowitz?

  What do you remember about the reception at the time? Because in looking back and reading about it, it seems like you were really an unknown by those standards.

• 35:11Speaker 02

  Very much.

• 35:11Josh Horowitz?

  And maybe some people questioned, who is this young unknown playing Doctor Who? Is that, was that your sense of the reaction?

• 35:18Speaker 02

  It was very hard. I mean, I would walk down the street and people would be like, "Don't break Doctor Who." Someone actually said that to me. And then I was watching that, uh, this really great comedian, actually, it wasn't on The Fast Show, but it was on, it was a guy, he was, anyway, and he went through all the lists of Doctor Who's, this was on the telly, I was in my flat, and he was like, uh, you know, Sylvester McCoy, da da da, uh, um, Christopher Eccleston, David Tennant, and Matt Smith, who I don't agree with. And he was like, he was pointing at me.

• 35:52Josh Horowitz?

  And I was just like.

• 35:56Speaker 02

  Fuck. And I was, and I'd phone my dad from Cardiff and go, "Ah, fuck, man, I can't do this." And he'd be like, "Look, just keep the faith." And, I mean, that was a, you, you, you're, you're taking on a huge

• 36:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:08Speaker 02

  thing there. It was, it was, um, it was a, a real learning curve.

• 36:12Josh Horowitz?

  Did you almost turn that one down too, or was that?

• 36:16Speaker 02

  I, I flirted with it with my agent. I was like, "Oh, no, no." He was like, "You're doing it, man, shut up." That's kind of what happens with me and job. But no, I, I, I sort of, um, no, I, I, I, there was something that I was drawn to. My mom actually texts me when that was about being cast, she was like, "You should be Doctor Who," out of nowhere. And then it was weird, I got a phone call.

• 36:36Josh Horowitz?

  You're saying before it was?

• 36:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And then I couldn't tell anyone for like nine months. It was, it was really interesting. And people would go, "So what are you up to next?" And I'd go, "Man, nothing."

• 36:48Speaker 02

  With real confidence. You know what I mean? Nothing. Oh, something will turn up, you know, you know, well. And I would go for, I was doing press for a show and there it was, it was really bizarre. They were asking all of the other actors.

• 37:01Josh Horowitz?

  What's coming up?

• 37:02Speaker 02

  Could be you, yeah.

• 37:03Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, really?

• 37:03Speaker 02

  It's like what we were doing within there about Bond. Going, well, who will it be? Yeah. Someone knows, someone knows out there at the moment that it's them.

• 37:12Josh Horowitz?

  It's interesting looking back at what you chose to do coming off of Doctor Who.

• 37:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:16Josh Horowitz?

  Because you, you mentioned American Psycho. You do, correct me if I'm wrong. You basically go from Doctor Who to doing Patrick Bateman, singing Patrick Bateman in London and playing a psychopath for Ryan Gosling in his directing debut.

• 37:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And.

• 37:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 37:32Speaker 02

  I had to go back and film Doctor Who. And like Ryan on set one day was like, hey, hey, man, would you mind shaving your head? And I was like, yeah. And I got back to Doctor Who with no hair and they were like, what the?

• 37:48Josh Horowitz?

  That's a conversation.

• 37:48Speaker 02

  When Ryan Gosling asks you to do so, you're like, yeah, yeah, man. Yeah, because he's amazing.

• 37:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. So was that, that, I mean, that must have been, was that a conscious, obviously all the decisions are conscious decisions. But like to show folks what you could do coming off of Doctor Who, that you have range to do really extreme different kinds of roles.

• 38:06Speaker 02

  I think I definitely sought out roles that felt more completely the other, the other way. And now I'm just always casting like nutters and crazy people. And actually it might be nice to go back and play someone who's a bit more, I don't know. But yeah, I definitely actively sought out the bad and the chaotic and the mad. But then that's what's so interesting about the Doctor is he, he kind of is those things.

• 38:31Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 38:32Speaker 02

  You know?

• 39:11Speaker 06

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• 40:00Josh Horowitz?

  How much do you follow? I mean, every few years, there's a new doctor. And right now, we're in a transition point, right?

• 40:05Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah.

• 40:05Josh Horowitz?

  And it's fascinating. I'm always fascinated by Doctor Who because, you know, it's one thing globally and outside of, outside of the UK, and it's a whole other thing. It became frankly, in your years and David Tennant, it became more of a global phenomenon.

• 40:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, maybe. I mean, I mean, I was woo, woo. I was, look, it was, it was very difficult to follow David, who was the most amazing actor and man and doctor and a great leader. And, you know, it's, it's sort of funny watching those moments. I remember just the fear of, you know, you don't know until you know. It's a strange thing. And, and, and so it was a real, it was such a huge challenge. But I, I'm so proud of that show. And the great thing is, you know, people say, oh, Doctor Who's this and that. And it's, you know, the Doctor never dies. He never goes away. He, she, they will be back in force.

• 40:59Speaker 02

  And it will, it will continue to sort of evolve and change and grow. And it's the, because it's the most brilliant concept for a show. And, and, you know, we've got the same little weird club doctors. Do you know what's so funny? Get this, right? True story. Chris Eccleston, I hope he doesn't mind me telling you this, but, but basically, we used to pass each other, you know, in this block of flats. And, um, you know, he sort of was...

• 41:32Speaker 02

  Going to one flat and I was going to another flat and we just pass each other in the morning and go, "Morning, Doctor. Morning, Doctor."

• 41:39Josh Horowitz?

  That's amazing.

• 41:40Speaker 02

  And that's what we'd say. It was amazing. "He was a great doctor, Chris. Great doctor."

• 41:45Josh Horowitz?

  Totally. Um, I mean, we, we joke about something like Morbius and we reference like Terminator. I'm just curious, like those kind of experiences, which you, obviously you go into with the best of intentions and, but it's kind of a fascinating kind of like alternate reality where it's like, if that Terminator hits, you do a trilogy of those.

• 42:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:01Josh Horowitz?

  If Morbius hits, who knows, like,

• 42:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:03Josh Horowitz?

  Like, do you remember, like Terminator is, is an odd one. Like you were playing kind of like Skynet as a physical manifestation, as I recall?

• 42:11Speaker 02

  I mean, I think the plan was, yeah. And then he, you know, the plan was, Skynet was gonna come back as like an uber Terminator in the second movie and be like a sort of the guy, you know, like be like the best Terminator ever.

• 42:26Josh Horowitz?

  But that was the excitement for you for that?

• 42:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, because he was gonna go on and be some sort of like cool villain, which I thought was, you know, I just, it's so hard, isn't it? Like Terminator 2 is a, we're talking about masterpiece. That's kind of a, it's kind of a perfect movie, isn't it? In a way? It's, and how can you?

• 42:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 42:48Josh Horowitz?

  Know it.

• 42:48Speaker 02

  You know what I mean by doing that, don't you? That's how iconic it is.

• 42:52Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing.

• 42:52Speaker 02

  Robert Patrick. Great.

• 42:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Um, switching gears in a profound way, we should mention The Crown. I mean, The Crown, which is a great achievement.

• 43:01Speaker 02

  Yes. Very proud of The Crown.

• 43:05Josh Horowitz?

  Um, again, I feel like the common theme that we keep talking about is like hesitation before you take on these iconic roles.

• 43:11Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, yeah.

• 43:12Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, there's a lot that goes with that, obviously. Um, major hesitations before jumping into playing Philip or no?

• 43:18Speaker 02

  It was complicated because I was still doing Terminator.

• 43:24Speaker 02

  And so it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't sort of plain sailing. Um, but yeah, yeah, there was. I mean, also like, I, my agent phoned me and said, oh, they're doing a TV show about the royal family. And I was like, oh, right. I mean, does anyone care? And then I, and then I read it and was like, whoa.

• 43:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 43:43Speaker 02

  I read all ten. He'd written all ten scripts, P. And Peter Morgan is, is, you know, amazing. And, and I was just like, my God, this is brilliant. And I'm, you know, and this character of Prince Philip is brilliant. And, and you know, it's interesting, there, there was a real sense, you talk about kind of protecting characters. In England, he was viewed as this sort of bumbling idiot. And I saw that actually, no, there was this hugely complex, progressive, intelligent, difficult man, whose wife was the Queen, and he didn't give a fuck about that. And she was totally head over heels in love with him. And he, her, and it was complicated, but it was, I thought, yeah, I was just like, God, this is really beautiful.

• 44:29Josh Horowitz?

  I think we're co-presidents of the Claire Foy Fan Club, you and I.

• 44:33Speaker 02

  We are.

• 44:33Josh Horowitz?

  Right?

• 44:34Speaker 02

  Um.

• 44:36Speaker 02

  One of the greats. Claire's one of the greats.

• 44:39Josh Horowitz?

  How much of that performance was influenced by just having her as your screen partner for so much of it?

• 44:45Speaker 02

  Oh, all of it. Um, yeah, it's, you learn, I mean, Claire's just capable, a bit like Emma, of, of, of, of anotherness that, that I probably don't possess as an actor. And, but, you know, but actually, maybe there's an interesting chemistry that happens there. Um, but yeah, Claire is, is a, you know.

• 45:07Josh Horowitz?

  A legend.

• 45:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, a legend. Claire is a legend. Claire Foy, I can't believe I didn't mention Claire Foy. Claire Foy is a legend, you know, straight up.

• 45:15Josh Horowitz?

  You and I have danced around Star Wars over the years. We've talked about Star Wars quite a lot. And ironically, finally-

• 45:20Speaker 02

  I've danced around Star Wars over the years.

• 45:23Josh Horowitz?

  So for those that don't know, Matt Veronierli was in a Star Wars movie called Rise of Skywalker.

• 45:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 45:29Josh Horowitz?

  A role that came and went, that was rewritten. But Destiny said, "No, Matt, we need you in Star Wars."

• 45:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank God, actually, because I just, uh, yeah, I loved making this film.

• 45:41Josh Horowitz?

  So you have, you have shot your role in Star Wars: Starfighter, uh, opposite the-

• 45:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 45:46Josh Horowitz?

  Ryan Gosling, directed by Sean Levy.

• 45:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, Sean, yeah.

• 45:49Josh Horowitz?

  I know we're not going to spoil anything, needless to say, but circumstances of how this even happened, like, is, can you say anything about that?

• 45:56Speaker 02

  Um, I don't know. I got a phone call and, I mean, mate, no, I, I don't, I, I honestly don't know. But it was, you know, it's, it's kind of, uh,

• 46:08Speaker 02

  obviously to do a movie, I mean, I was, I, you know, Sean's an amazing creative person. He's an amazing creative. I mean, I don't know if you've ever interviewed him before.

• 46:16Josh Horowitz?

  He's the most positive force on the planet, right?

• 46:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. It's a pretty incredible thing to be around on a film set, his energy, and I, I just tapped into that. I imagine maybe Ryan had put in a good word for me or something. I don't know.

• 46:28Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 46:28Speaker 02

  But, but, um, I can't imagine that I'd have got close to it otherwise, really, it, you know, on mere talent alone.

• 46:37Josh Horowitz?

  Please.

• 46:38Speaker 02

  And I was so, uh, so I went and had this meeting and, and Sean explained the character to me and the world and who else was going to be in it potentially. And I was just like, wow, this is, you know, to do a movie of, uh, uh, um, like that, that, that has real scale.

• 46:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:55Speaker 02

  You know, global scale, but also has the sort of the tone and the temperament and the quality and the, and the sort of level of human detail that I think it might have. I think it's going to be really good.

• 47:07Josh Horowitz?

  Where in the pantheon of charismatic, unpredictable Matt Smith characters is this one going to sit?

• 47:13Speaker 02

  I don't know. It's hard, it's quite hard to comment because maybe I just think they're all boring, but he's, he's, he's a pretty interesting guy. Or girl. Who knows? I can't say too much, you know? But, um, it's an interesting, it's interesting, I think.

• 47:26Josh Horowitz?

  Did you finally sit down and watch some Star Wars movies? Because you also admitted to me years ago that you really hadn't watched much Star Wars.

• 47:33Speaker 02

  I know. Isn't that terrible?

• 47:37Speaker 02

  Next question.

• 47:40Josh Horowitz?

  That's how cool you are. You don't have to watch the movies. You just, you're in them.

• 47:45Speaker 02

  It's kinda how it goes, man.

• 47:48Josh Horowitz?

  Here's my last question. I talked to Gosling about this, actually. He missed the day on set that Tom Cruise came.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  Oh, man.

• 47:54Josh Horowitz?

  Did you meet Tom Cruise?

• 47:55Speaker 02

  No, I really wanna meet Tom Cruise as well, man. I was quite gutted about that. I love Tom Cruise. I've, I just, also I just, you know, I've got so many questions to ask him about being an actor. You must have interviewed him, have you?

• 48:06Josh Horowitz?

  I've had a couple of experiences. What would you ask Tom Cruise?

• 48:08Speaker 02

  What would I ask him? Oh, mate, I'd get bang into the craft. I'd go deep with Tom.

• 48:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:13Speaker 02

  About, about it. Yeah, I'd talk about it quite intensely with him, I think.

• 48:17Josh Horowitz?

  What's your, yeah, what's your top Tom Cruise?

• 48:19Speaker 02

  Fit movies?

• 48:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:20Speaker 02

  Oh, man alive, where do we begin? Jesus Christ. I mean, look, there's like, I think Risky Business, Sliding with the Socks, and On the Train. Talk about erotic thrillers.

• 48:33Speaker 02

  There's something, there's a lovely, like, level of sort of low-level teenage eroticism about that film that it was, was not lost on me.

• 48:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:40Speaker 02

  Do you know what I mean? I just think, you know, he, he, he, top, top Tom. I don't know. I, I, I just think there's a, there's a sort of, a brilliant, um, you know, there's a, the, the craft. The, the level of craft that is taking place there, I'd, I'd be, because I quite like the craft of acting.

• 49:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 49:01Speaker 02

  Sounds a little wanky, doesn't it, that? But like, you know, if you're a carpenter or whatever, this, you know, it does, it is about continual practice and investment in that. And that, and that's also why I love to work with Emma, because Emma really invests in the craft of it and, and they really believe in the, that process. They just made a movie with, uh...

• 49:22Josh Horowitz?

  That's right. They're in the, um, you know, Ritu movie, right?

• 49:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:27Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so you, you alluded to this. I'm curious. You mentioned like, kinda being goal-driven. Like, you know, you're just getting started. You've got, got a lot under your belt, but there's a lot to come. What, what, what do you think about what kind of experiences are you chasing? What's left to...

• 49:41Speaker 02

  Oh, wow, that's a good question. I mean, I think, I think maybe there's a, there's a tone of film that I'm seeking out to make and in many different ways, really. I might do a play. I, I, I think there's maybe a bit of work to be explored behind the camera.

• 49:56Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 49:57Speaker 02

  In a way, yeah. And, and, um, just to invest in, yeah, it's, you know, there's, there's, it's quite a sort of broad... Broad spectrum of, you know, I really loved that. I just produced something and I really enjoyed that. I really enjoyed being part of that process. Just having more power was great.

• 50:15Josh Horowitz?

  You'll listen to me?

• 50:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:18Josh Horowitz?

  And we still need to get you on stage here. You came close for Wong's back.

• 50:21Speaker 02

  Lunges.

• 50:21Josh Horowitz?

  That almost happened.

• 50:22Speaker 02

  And then we lost out to Covid, yeah.

• 50:24Josh Horowitz?

  Is there a, have you done a musical since American Psycho? Would you do another musical?

• 50:29Speaker 02

  But I bloody should.

• 50:32Speaker 02

  I can't actually sing. This is, you know, you know, like, oh, man. Like, I came to American Psycho. I just had an operation on my knee after Doctor Who because most, lots of doctors have had it, actually. Because what happens is when, when, when you're facing the alien. You think it's gonna get this physical, did you? What happens is you run down the corridor and you see the Dalek or whoever said alien. And you go like, whoa. And so, honestly, like, so I think Peter Capaldi had the same thing.

• 51:04Josh Horowitz?

  You're all limping around together. You're all just like.

• 51:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. And actually, if you see, then I go back and do the Christmas special. I've got a cane in it. I'm limping around. And if, but I got this read through and I wasn't in the fittest of shape and it had to be. I got there. I worked really hard. But at a musical, everyone sings. And I was, started singing a bit and you could see these other actors looking at me going, this guy is shit.

• 51:33Speaker 02

  But I sort of got there. I could have acted my way through it and, you know, that, that show was really good.

• 51:39Josh Horowitz?

  Is there a specific role particularly on stage you'd like to do? Like, that's on the list? Like a classic or?

• 51:45Speaker 02

  Oh, God, yeah. Do you know what was really annoying, right? Like, I get home and I'm like, fuck, I should have said that. Cause yes, there is.

• 51:57Speaker 02

  And then, but, but I mean, I'll, I'll, I think I'll definitely come back to the stage and, you know, maybe next year. I would love to, to do a play here. Just because I'd love to be here. I love being here. I love being in New York. What a great city.

• 52:10Josh Horowitz?

  Best.

• 52:15Josh Horowitz?

  Did you enjoy auditioning? Like, were you a good auditioner?

• 52:17Speaker 02

  Uh, some I was, uh, yeah. Some I was good and some I was bad. It's a real hit and miss sort of

• 52:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 52:23Speaker 02

  thing with me. And the ones I got, I was good in. And the ones I didn't, and there were many.

• 52:29Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 52:29Speaker 02

  I didn't. And things that you'd have seen and gone, oh, that would have been, would that have been interesting? I don't know.

• 52:34Josh Horowitz?

  Do you have a favorite one that like, whether it worked out or not?

• 52:36Speaker 02

  One that got away?

• 52:37Josh Horowitz?

  Well, that too. I mean, I will take anything. I'll take one that got away, or just a happy experience of like, whether you got the role or not.

• 52:43Speaker 02

  Oh, I had a wonderful audition with Ryan Gosling in New York. We like, ended up going outside on the street and doing this. And I mean, I don't know if you remember, but at the start of that movie, Bully is like, in a car going, "Welcome to Bully, da, da, da." He goes this mad speech. And we ended up doing it out on the street in the middle of New York. It was brilliant.

• 53:04Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing. All right. Um, we're gonna end with this. You've done it before, but we're gonna try it again. The happy, second fuse profoundly random questions.

• 53:11Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 53:11Josh Horowitz?

  Ready?

• 53:12Speaker 02

  Go.

• 53:13Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, dogs or cats?

• 53:16Speaker 02

  Dogs.

• 53:17Josh Horowitz?

  How's Bobby doing?

• 53:18Speaker 02

  Fucking great, man. We, we're, we're, we're literally kind of, whenever we kind of communicate, our first line of questioning is, "How's the dog?"

• 53:25Josh Horowitz?

  It's true.

• 53:26Speaker 02

  Pitcher, great, yeah. Bobby's great, man.

• 53:27Josh Horowitz?

  It's true. I will say, at some point, you know, I'm doing this celebrity and dog show. I'm gonna go to England. We're gonna get Bobby on the show.

• 53:34Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. I'm there, bro.

• 53:35Josh Horowitz?

  All right.

• 53:36Speaker 02

  A hundred percent.

• 53:36Josh Horowitz?

  I'm gonna do it. Um, what do you collect?

• 53:42Speaker 02

  Oh, good vibes.

• 53:47Speaker 02

  Um, and glasses and Reebok classics.

• 53:51Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Uh, favorite video game of all time?

• 53:54Speaker 02

  Uh, Street Fighter, or World Cup 1994, European Soccer, or Resident Evil, the first one.

• 54:01Josh Horowitz?

  Wow.

• 54:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:03Josh Horowitz?

  Those sucked some hours out of your life.

• 54:05Speaker 02

  Oh, man, yeah. That first Resident Evil was just, because we were talking about this earlier. I love those like, end of world zombie apocalypse type.

• 54:14Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 54:14Speaker 02

  Stories. I'm into that.

• 54:16Josh Horowitz?

  That's why you did Patient Zero.

• 54:18Speaker 02

  Patient Carelow.

• 54:22Speaker 02

  Another classic.

• 54:25Speaker 02

  I've, I've never seen that movie.

• 54:26Josh Horowitz?

  Nor have I.

• 54:27Speaker 02

  No.

• 54:31Speaker 02

  Thank god.

• 54:33Josh Horowitz?

  We can laugh because there's so many wonderful experiences.

• 54:36Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 54:38Josh Horowitz?

  Thank goodness. The Dakota Johnson memorial question, she asked me, I ask everybody, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 54:46Speaker 02

  Oh, god, welcome to my mouth, baby.

• 54:54Speaker 02

  I'll just brush my teeth after and cry. Although maybe a bee in the butt is, who knows? Who knows? What a brilliant question.

• 55:02Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 55:03Speaker 02

  Or, put your hands together.

• 55:07Josh Horowitz?

  What's the wallpaper on your phone? I saw it, actually.

• 55:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's my dog.

• 55:11Josh Horowitz?

  It's Bobby, right?

• 55:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 55:13Josh Horowitz?

  Who's the last actor you were mistaken for?

• 55:17Speaker 02

  Nick Nolte.

• 55:21Josh Horowitz?

  We love Nick Nolte, but no.

• 55:22Speaker 02

  He's amazing. No, who's the last actor I was mistaken for? I don't know, man. Are you?

• 55:31Speaker 02

  No.

• 55:32Josh Horowitz?

  No?

• 55:32Speaker 02

  This didn't come to me. I wanted to be Nick Nolte. Someone once said to me the other day, you know, you look like Nick Nolte. So I was like, cool, I'll take that.

• 55:40Josh Horowitz?

  The gravitas.

• 55:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I'll take that. Nick Nolte and Martin Short in, what was that movie?

• 55:45Josh Horowitz?

  Just My Luck or Pure Luck?

• 55:47Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 55:48Josh Horowitz?

  The fugitive.

• 55:49Speaker 02

  The fugitive. That was a great film. I also love that type of 80s sort of buddy.

• 55:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 55:56Speaker 02

  Like, road movie.

• 55:58Josh Horowitz?

  Who do you want to star in your buddy movie? Your road trip buddy movie, your midnight run, your...

• 56:03Speaker 02

  Oh, what was that?

• 56:05Josh Horowitz?

  Suggestions? No?

• 56:05Speaker 02

  Oh, was that a suggestion? Oh, god, I'm gonna have such a great answer later, aren't I? It's gonna really come to me and it's gonna be like, fuck, yeah.

• 56:14Josh Horowitz?

  The yin and yang to you, the different kind of actor you want to just...

• 56:16Speaker 02

  Someone sort of, you know.

• 56:21Josh Horowitz?

  We can make this happen.

• 56:21Speaker 02

  Nick Nolte.

• 56:22Josh Horowitz?

  Nick Nolte.

• 56:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:24Josh Horowitz?

  It would be unusual. I'll watch it. Worst noted director's ever given you.

• 56:31Speaker 02

  Where do I begin? Worst noted director's ever given me? I don't know, really. Can you just do it a bit more? Fuck off, mate.

• 56:41Josh Horowitz?

  I'm the actor here.

• 56:42Speaker 02

  No, I don't know, really. I try and take, you know, one tries to take everything on board, really.

• 56:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 56:48Speaker 02

  You know, and maybe every note, the thing is, you've got to try and be open because maybe actually they're seeing it from an angle that you just don't know.

• 56:54Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 56:55Speaker 02

  So, you know, I try, I try and be open about it.

• 56:59Josh Horowitz?

  You're getting very close to entering the Five Timers Club unhappy, sad, confused. You're gonna get a hat very soon.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  Okay, very good.

• 57:06Josh Horowitz?

  You don't get a hat today.

• 57:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:07Josh Horowitz?

  But I did find this, only you would get a sliver TBD. Yes, this is, it's the unrated version, you'll be happy to know.

• 57:17Speaker 02

  Thank you, it's William Baldwin as well, and Tom Berenger, man, come on, and Shaz, man, come on.

• 57:24Josh Horowitz?

  There you go.

• 57:25Speaker 02

  By the way, as David Sheehan at NBC TV said, "Don't miss it."

• 57:32Speaker 02

  Thank you, Josh.

• 57:32Josh Horowitz?

  We're gonna add, we're gonna add your quote to the box.

• 57:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:35Josh Horowitz?

  Ladies and gentlemen, the new season of House of the Dragon is excellent, check it out, June 21st, HBO. Give it up one more time for the legend that is Matt Smith, everybody.

• 57:45Speaker 02

  Thank you so much, thank you so much, thank you, thank you, Josh.

• 57:52Speaker 00

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts, I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.