37 AJ Jacobs: Experiments in Lifestyle, Fitness, and Self Improvement

The ultimate lifestyle experimenter joins us today on The School of Greatness. He spent a year living Biblically by following every rule mentioned in the bible to the letter. He lived by George Washington's 110 rules of life for a few months, he even became a single woman for a little bit to investigate dating. He is also, simply one of the funniest speakers around these days. This is episode thirty seven and we're excited to bring you, AJ Jacobs. Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 37 with A.J. Jacobs.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:34Lewis Howes?

  Hey, greats. Thanks so much for tuning in today again. Really appreciate you guys, and I hope you enjoyed the last episode with Chris Lee. Such an awesome time having him on and talking about really how to visualize and achieve all of your dreams. And today, I've got a very special guest. His name is A.J. Jacobs. He is the editor-at-large at Esquire Magazine and also the author of four, count them, four New York Times bestsellers. Really funny, really a funny guy. I met him recently at a speech that we were both talking at in Toronto and was cracking up the entire time he was on stage. Really intellectual and funny at the same time, and an amazing writer.

• 1:19Lewis Howes?

  So I'm very excited to bring him on, but I want to share the quote of the day that I think is going to be great for this episode. And it's by Naveen Andrews, saying, "If you don't take the chance to live life, what can you say at the end of it?" I think it's interesting because a lot of people I see don't take chances. They're not going after their dreams. They're not living to the fullest. They're not going after anything because they're afraid to fail, or they're afraid to get hurt. And what I've seen, which is really cool about what A.J. has done, he's taking on life to the extremes. And in his books, he goes to the extremes with all his experience.

• 2:02Lewis Howes?

  He's like a human guinea pig with his experience, living to this extreme with health and fitness, with the mind, with the spirit. With everything, he goes there and he documents them and journals them and writes about his process. So I'm very excited to introduce you to AJ and talk about these experiments and exercises and really how he's living to the fullest. Going all out every day, practicing what he preaches in his writing. It's very cool. He's got some interesting stories he's going to share with you about how to maximize the mind, the body and the spirit, but also how he's done it in a funny way as well. So I'm very excited about that.

• 2:41Lewis Howes?

  With that, guys, let's get into this episode with the one and only AJ Jacobs.

• 2:58Lewis Howes?

  Hey, everyone. Thanks again for tuning into the School of Greatness. I've got my man AJ Jacobs with me. How's it going AJ?

• 3:05Speaker 01

  Good. Thank you for having me, Lewis. Love it.

• 3:07Lewis Howes?

  I am very excited to have you on here because you're one of the funniest guys I've ever heard speak at a conference.

• 3:13Speaker 01

  Oh, my goodness.

• 3:16Speaker 01

  That puts the, that puts the, you gotta say I'm not interesting at all, so I can surprise.

• 3:21Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. Set the expectation low. No, uh, we met at Mastermind Talks, actually, which was in Toronto. And you were one of the most memorable speakers for me because of your humor and because of what you represent and what you stand for, which is for me, excellence and greatness. And you've been on these journeys, I would say, these adventures where you've dived deep into understanding yourself on multiple levels, right?

• 3:55Speaker 01

  Right. And thank you for those kind words. I loved your talk as well. So right back at you.

• 4:01Lewis Howes?

  I appreciate it. And what you've worked on is really kind of the key areas of life. What it looks like from my point of view is your body and health. You've also worked on your minds and your intellects, and then you've worked on your spirituality.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah, I have done a lot of self-improvement because I, I needed a lot of improvement. I was, I was quite the fixer-upper. I still am.

• 4:29Lewis Howes?

  Now, why did you need a lot of improvement? What was, what was happening for you to be like, okay, I'm going to dive into all these areas of my life?

• 4:37Speaker 01

  Well, I'll just take it one at a time. And there's the spirituality, and that came about because I grew up with no religion at all. As I say in the book, I'm Jewish, but I'm Jewish in the same way the Olive Garden is Italian.

• 4:52Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  But, no offense, the Olive Garden's a great restaurant. But I wanted to, I wanted to learn about the Bible, so I thought one way to do it would be to dive in and live it and, and follow it as closely as possible. Follow all the hundreds of rules that are in the Bible and see what it really said. And that's what I like to do with all of my experiments. Dive in and just do it and live it from the inside out and then report back in my books and articles.

• 5:24Lewis Howes?

  Now, the spirituality side of things, did you feel like growing up that you didn't have a belief system? Or you didn't believe in anything?

• 5:32Speaker 01

  Well, I definitely did not have a belief system and I wanted to see, I had kids, I wanted to see if there was anything I was missing. And I'm actually, after the experiment, I lived for a year by the Bible. I'm not religious in the traditional sense, but there are things about religion that I really like and that I've taken away. The community, the importance of having a strong support community, that's great. The idea of gratitude, that's awesome. And, and they do have some good ethical ideas. I mean, I would say, you know, seven or eight of the ten commandments are spot on.

• 6:11Lewis Howes?

  What are the ones, what are the ones that are not spot on?

• 6:15Speaker 01

  Well, not the, I think killing, that's, that's pretty good. Adultery, pretty good. Coveting, I think you need a little bit of coveting in life, but not too much. Cause you want to have some ambition. But I guess coveting is when you go overboard and, and all you think about is, is what you want and what, not what other people want. So that's the key. You gotta think about yourself, but also about others.

• 6:41Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, I think it's a, you know. Like whenever I fly, they say, put your own mask on first before you assist others. And I think it's true. You've got to fill up your tank, your energy, your needs first before you can really serve others. If you're always putting others before you, then you're gonna feel empty and unfulfilled.

• 7:01Speaker 01

  Well, I'll tell you one thing I've learned just from reading and from living is, is that the happier I am, the more willing I am to help others. If I'm in a very bitter or selfish place, then I'm not gonna be helping others. So to me, working on yourself is actually the same as working on the community because you feel better and you're more generous.

• 7:27Lewis Howes?

  I want to talk about gratitude. Something you said you learned from, you know, following the Bible to the T. It was gratitude. That was one of the main things you said. So why is gratitude so important for you, for me, for everyone?

• 7:40Speaker 01

  Well, I think it's the one, psychologists talk about it like it's the wonder drug. And I believe that. I mean, it is like, it's better than Paxil and Prozac and any of that stuff. Because if you, what I did, the Bible said to be grateful all the time. So I tried to take that literally. So I was giving thanks like every minute of the day. I would press the elevator button and I'd be thankful that the elevator arrived and opened the doors. And I'd get in the elevator and I'd be thankful it didn't plunge to the basement and break my collarbone. So it was weird. Hundreds of things a day. It was nonstop. But you start to realize, you start to have the switch in

• 8:22Speaker 01

  perspective, that there are hundreds of things that go right every day. And we focus on the three or four that go wrong. And that can be a real problem for our psychological state. And, you know, right now, I'm thankful. I can't believe that this audio system is working. That's a lovely little minor miracle.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  You know, you were talking about your view. So it is, being thankful for those little things really makes a big difference.

• 8:53Lewis Howes?

  Now, did you notice a shift in your energy and your passion for life and for your love for other people in general? Once you started to be thankful hundreds or thousands of times every day, based on what you're doing the rest of your life beforehand?

• 9:07Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And it's also- Like when I was doing little small things, like having a meal, you know, I would be thankful for the guy who grew the farmer, who grew the chickpeas, and be thankful for the the driver who drove the truck to the store and the cashier. So you start to realize, you know, everyone is involved. When you're eating something, it's not just you. It's like a whole community was involved. And I think that that's a great outlook. I am also very thankful that I don't have to follow all the rules of the Bible. Because I did that for a year and there are some that are just crazy.

• 9:49Lewis Howes?

  Tell me about them.

• 9:50Speaker 01

  Well, there's the classic, you can't shave the corners of your beard. And I didn't know where the corners were, so I just let the whole thing grow. And I looked like, you know, Ted Kaczynski. I looked, to give you a sense, I spent a lot of time at airport security. I really did. I would get grilled. And then there is ones in the Hebrew scriptures, they talk a lot about stoning adulterers. And I felt that if I was gonna do this, I should at least try to stone one adulterer.

• 10:23Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  I did.

• 10:26Lewis Howes?

  You did not throw stones at someone.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  I did, I did. They were, well, I'll tell you how it happened. I was in the middle of the year and I was really getting into it. So I had on my robe and my sandals and my beard. And this guy came up to me and said, why are you dressed like that? And I said, well, I'm trying to follow all the rules of the Bible, from the Ten Commandments to stoning adulterers. And he said, well, I'm an adulterer, are you gonna stone me? And I said, well, yeah, that'd be great. And I took out a handful of stones, because I had been carrying stones around, waiting for just this moment. And I showed them to him and they were small, pebble sized, they weren't gonna hurt him too much. He was very aggressive. He grabbed the stones out of my hand and threw them at my face.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  So I thought, yeah, I know, I was surprised. So an eye for an eye, I tossed one back at him. And that's how I checked it off the list. So that, I'm very grateful, very grateful I don't have to do all the things in the Bible. And that is one of the big lessons from that year, is that you have to engage, you have to. Pick and choose which are the good parts of the Bible and which are not. And, and some people disagree with that. They say that's just cafeteria religion. You're just picking parts out that you like. And I always say, what's wrong with cafeterias? I've had great meals at cafeterias. That's what life is about, is choosing the right thing. You know, you've got to roll up your sleeves.

• 11:56Lewis Howes?

  I like it. So what's the, what's your, has your belief system changed since going through that year of research and, and practice to not believing religion to now having some other belief?

• 12:10Speaker 01

  Well, I do, uh, I mean, uh, we joined a synagogue, my wife and I, uh, mostly so that our kids would have some basis in, uh, in our heritage, uh, and they can then choose later whether they want to be observant or if they just want to make fun of religion. Either one is fine with me as long as they're good people. So I have become more involved in religion. I love the community, as I say, I love the ethical system. The belief, I am still an agnostic. I, uh, I would say I'm still a fence straddler aware. You know, maybe God exists, maybe he doesn't.

• 12:46Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, but you've learned that gratitude and you know, I guess, what about loving everyone? I guess is that your, where you express your gratitude is like, I love the person who did this for me or who's brought the food here. Is that kind of, uh, your approach to it?

• 13:02Speaker 01

  Exactly. I mean, uh, yeah, the, the Bible has got some tough ones. Love your neighbor, but also love your enemy. I mean, that one is, woo. So in that one, I, I found, uh, I couldn't really love my enemy, but forgiveness is also very important to your happiness. So like holding on to those grudges, it may be, it may feel good in the moment, but it really wears you down. So just, you know, forgiveness, let it go as much as you can. And of course, I still have, I still have the asterisk when I say to someone, I forgive you. I still remember what they did, but I try, I try to make that asterisk as small as possible.

• 13:44Lewis Howes?

  Now, do you find it harder to forgive someone else or to forgive yourself?

• 13:49Speaker 01

  Hmm, that is a good question. I gotta say, forgiving yourself is also a key to happiness. I mean, you, you talked about it uh on your, I think it was your last podcast where you were talking about how you lost a game of handball and, and instead of dwelling on it, you had to, you say, alright, here's what I'm gonna learn from it. And I thought that was great. I think that's so true. You know, if you beat yourself up, then you, you, you're just gonna cripple yourself. You're not gonna get anything done.

• 14:22Lewis Howes?

  Are you the type of person that beats himself up a lot? Or have you shifted or did you ever?

• 14:27Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, I think constitutionally, I am very good at beating myself up.

• 14:33Speaker 01

  But I make a, I make a solemn effort not to. And, and I think you can change your personality. I do think that, that's one of the things I've learned from all these experiments is that you can make yourself happier. More, you can make yourself less obsessed with beating yourself up.

• 14:51Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, okay. So what's the, so to close the chapter on the spirituality, what's the biggest takeaway you, you learned from that, that year? And from practicing everything from then until now, what's the biggest thing you took away?

• 15:05Speaker 01

  Partly the gratitude and the second part is the idea of fake it till you make it. Uh, which was huge in this experiment and all experiments. Cause think about it this way, like if you, I hate visiting the hospitals, but I had a friend in the hospital, I just didn't wanna, uh, but I, I asked myself, what would a good person do? And I acted as if I were a good person. So that's the key, act as if. And I forced myself to go to the hospital. And once you're there, it sort of tricks your mind. And you're like, oh, I'm in the hospital, visiting a friend, I must be compassionate. And you become a little more compassionate. And they talk about this in cognitive behavioral psychology all the time.

• 15:46Speaker 01

  You know, it's the idea of you force yourself to smile, the studies show, it tricks your brain, you become a little bit happier. It's kind of creepy, but it works. So that's the idea. There's a great quote by a guy who founded Habitat for Humanity, which is, "It's easier to act your way into a new way of thinking than to think your way into a new way of acting." So this was a huge, like, this happens all the time. In fact, today it happened, you know, you have a crisis of confidence. You're like, "I don't know if this book is going to work out, this, you know, this business is not, uh, this, it's too much of a long shot." But you force yourself to act in a confident way. I forced myself to send emails to, to, you know, clients saying

• 16:29Speaker 01

  how great I think this is going to be, and you kind of convince yourself. So this is a really important tool, is the idea of self-delusion almost. Fake it till you make it. The upside of self-delusion.

• 16:41Lewis Howes?

  I love it. I mean, we can't all think, you know, positively right away, but if we're acting like we're positive and doing things, then, you know, hopefully it'll translate into feeling and thinking that way also.

• 16:52Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:53Lewis Howes?

  I saw, I saw, I saw a video recently on, on YouTube from some research where they said that people's, the people are the happiest when they're expressing public gratitude for someone they care about.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  Oh, that's nice.

• 17:10Lewis Howes?

  And I was, we were, I was watching the video of people going through this experiment of them, having them call someone that they love and tell them how much they appreciate them.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:19Lewis Howes?

  And to, to see them light up and hear the reaction of their friend or their family member, whoever it was, was truly inspiring. And they were just like, "I feel so amazing. I'm so happy." And they had some research and some study behind like, doing this will increase your happiness by a certain percentage or whatever. But it was powerful to witness, uh, people actually doing it and kind of see the transformation instantly from average mood to like, super happy. So I think it's interesting that was the biggest thing, one of the biggest things you took away from spirituality and considering that was in the spirituality, you know, zone that you were in, that gratitude was what the biggest thing you took away.

• 17:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:56Lewis Howes?

  So.

• 17:56Speaker 01

  Well, it, it kind of reminds me, I did another experiment called Radical Honesty. And this is a movement that was started by a psychologist in Virginia who believes that You should never lie, but he goes further than that. He says whatever's on your brain should come out of your mouth. There should be no filter. It's like, it's like that Jim Carrey movie. It was, I mean, it's insane. So.

• 18:18Lewis Howes?

  Did you do that?

• 18:19Speaker 01

  I did it for two months.

• 18:21Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  And in many ways, it was the worst two months of my life. Cause you know, you had to say, I had to say to my, uh, my wife, you know, the classic, do I look fat in this? You have to say, yeah, you look like a whale. It's, it's horrible. And I had to tell my boss, I'd rather be doing something else. You know, I had, uh, so there were many, many parts that were terrible. Oh, we had, we saw this, uh, friend of my wife's, uh, she was friends with her in college and we saw her at a restaurant and the friend said, oh, we should all get together and have a playdate with our kids. And I had to say what I was thinking, which was, you seem very nice, but I, I, I'd be happy never to see you again. Cause I just

• 19:02Speaker 01

  don't have time to see my real friends. So no offense, but unfortunately she did take events. So, uh, I learned that that, there are parts that you want a filter. A filter is a good thing. But I practice what I like to call positive radical honesty, which is just what you described, which is we sometimes never express to friends or mentors or family what, what we're grateful for. So I would, I, one of the best parts of that experiment is I called the guy who hired me for my first job and told him how thankful I was. And I think he was a little freaked out cause you know, men aren't supposed to do that. They aren't supposed to express their emotions

• 19:45Speaker 01

  so openly. But, uh, but I also think he was happy about it and I know I was, I know I felt a lot better and I, and I still, when I think about it, it makes me, it makes me feel good. So I recommend that. Just what you said, calling mentors, old friends and just saying.

• 20:03Speaker 01

  Uh, you know, thank you. You meant a lot to me.

• 20:06Lewis Howes?

  And what I think is cool is for the last, I think, year or year and a half on my voicemail, if, if you ever call me and I don't pick up, you'll hear in my message that I say, you know, leave a message, but before you do, let me know what you're most grateful for today. And it's always fun for me to just get voice messages and everyone's like, oh my God, I'm so grateful for this and this and this. And then it's like, whatever they were calling me about is, it's a better moment, you know, whatever it may be. So I really like.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  I love that idea. I have not called you. I like that. I'm gonna do that. I, it's better than my other friend who said, uh, leave a voicemail. I'm never gonna listen to it because who uses voicemail? So if you need me, send me a text or an email.

• 20:46Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. That's hilarious. Um, okay, cool. Well, I appreciate the share on that section. Now I want to move into the body.

• 20:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:55Lewis Howes?

  And you wrote another book.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  You're an athlete. Yeah.

• 20:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And you wrote another book that is very powerful. It's called Drop Dead Healthy. And I love all your, your, your taglines for all of them. It's like the hum, one man's humble quest for something. And it's, uh, I love how you're humbly like learning how to perfect something. It's hilarious to me. So Drop Dead Healthy.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  I am the humblest man in the world. I am so humble. You cannot believe it. Uh, yes, Drop Dead Healthy.

• 21:25Lewis Howes?

  Now, this book is a New York Times bestseller, right?

• 21:28Speaker 01

  That's right. Yes.

• 21:29Lewis Howes?

  I sell, I sell in the airport. I think I still see it in airports all the time and it's, you know, all over Barnes and Noble. But you wrote this book and it was another experiment and you took, was it a year long, correct?

• 21:40Speaker 01

  Actually, it was like two years. I needed a lot of work on my body. My body was in good shape. Yeah.

• 21:47Lewis Howes?

  So what was, what was the goal for you? Spend two years and do the research on how to become the healthiest person alive, right?

• 21:51Speaker 01

  Right. That, that was the idea. Cause I'd say, you know, this was three years ago. I was in terrible shape. Uh, I wasn't skinny. I wasn't a fat fat. I was skinny fat. So which is the, the body shape where it's like a snake that swallowed a goat.

• 22:07Speaker 01

  But I was sickly all the time, no energy, so I decided I'm gonna try to get healthy. I'm gonna test all the medical advice I can find, so thousands of tips. I'm just gonna take, do what I can to change my diet, exercise, stress level, sleep, sex life, posture, how do I go to the bathroom? I changed that.

• 22:30Lewis Howes?

  Wow, you went to the extreme.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  I went every, every corner of my body, that's right, every crevice.

• 22:38Lewis Howes?

  So tell me, what were some of the craziest experiments? Maybe two or three of the craziest things you did? And let me hear about those.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  Oh, sure. Well, I mean, I got, this was like three years ago, so it was just when the paleo movement was starting. So I got in on that a little and I hung out with some of New York's top cavemen and we did a caveman workout where we went out to Central Park and no shirt, no shoes. And we tossed boulders around, we climbed trees and we, you know, a lot of people say, oh, did you drag women by the hair? No, we did not do that. But, but we, we ran and sprinted as if we were being chased by the saber-toothed tiger. So that was one.

• 23:26Speaker 01

  All the way to the other end, there's something called calorie restriction, which is a, a group of people who believe that if you eat very, very little, like if you're on the verge of starvation almost all the time, you will live a lot longer.

• 23:43Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  You will live to over a hundred years old.

• 23:46Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  There's some evidence that they might be right. Certainly in mice and monkeys, there's, there's evidence. We haven't proven it in humans. I mean, the question everyone asks is, you know, yeah, you'll live longer, but who the hell wants to live longer? You know, if you're like that, if you can't have a waffle once in a while.

• 24:04Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 24:05Speaker 01

  I like, but I did, I went to the house of the guy who started this and, and had, our dinner was a, literally a blueberry.

• 24:15Speaker 01

  For the appetizer and a walnut for the main course.

• 24:18Lewis Howes?

  Shut up.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  So it was a very bizarre, because you know, out there, there's so much crazy stuff you can do. You can find someone who says, you can literally find someone who says a hole in the head is good for you. And they drill holes in their head to change your electronic currents. So you gotta be very careful with who you listen to.

• 24:39Lewis Howes?

  To let the brain breathe or something, right? Or whatever, whatever science they come up with.

• 24:44Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 24:45Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So what would you feel like was the best format for you to live a healthy life then? Was it doing something extreme and caveman, CrossFit, paleo style? Or was it living more of a balanced life and being aware?

• 25:00Speaker 01

  I think it's whatever you love, whatever makes you happy. So there are people who love the paleo, who love Tough Mudder. And that's great. If they love it, then that's going to help them exercise. That's great. For me, not as much. I enjoy, you know, athletics, but to a more moderate degree. But I think we all know that you can't sit on your butt all day. You have to move. So how do you do it? What I love is my treadmill desk. You probably read about them.

• 25:39Lewis Howes?

  Yep.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  A treadmill and I just put my computer on top and I walk all day long and I write while I walk. It took me about 1,200 miles to write the book. And since then, I've probably walked about 2,000 miles while writing. And I love it and it keeps me awake. It keeps me energized. Now, if I'm sitting at a desk, I tend to get sleepy. So I, and you can't get sleepy on the treadmill or else you're going to go off the bat.

• 26:07Lewis Howes?

  So you wrote the entire book on the treadmill, right?

• 26:11Speaker 01

  Right, well, probably, you know, most of it, I wouldn't, there were times I had to sit down, but uh, but most of it, yeah. And uh, so that I recommend a lot and, and I have, I'm very also into the Quantified Self Movement, the idea that you keep track of everything.

• 26:27Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 26:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:28Lewis Howes?

  The Nike Fuel Band or whatever?

• 26:31Speaker 01

  Exactly. I'm actually, uh, I use the Fitbit, the same idea. And you know what else I find is uh, is when I, I wear the Fitbit while I'm walking on the treadmill to try to get as many steps per day, because my goal is ten, at least 10,000 steps per day. And uh, I'm, I have a group of friends who are also Fitbit users, and we compete with each other. We have a little circle. And so, uh, I, uh, some people find competition very uh, inspiring. I am one of them. Uh, other people find it a turn off, but, but if you find competition to be good motivation, I really recommend getting one of these uh, trackers and, and then competing with your friends,

• 27:13Speaker 01

  because then they, they trash talk you and you get the, and you get to trash talk them. And it is just very, it's just a delight. I mean, that's what keeps me moving is the, the thought that at the end of the day, I can make fun of my friend Paul.

• 27:30Lewis Howes?

  Now, why is it valuable to track everything that you do throughout the day in order to keep a healthy life? As opposed to just saying, I'm gonna do this, you know, five times a week and work out and stay healthy. Why is it important?

• 27:42Speaker 01

  Well, because the studies show that the more you track, the healthier you behave. So i- if you weigh yourself every day, then you're gonna be more aware of what you're eating. And if you have a pedometer, you walk more. So it's just a, an incentive to act in a healthy way.

• 28:03Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. It's kind of, it's almost like a game then. You're like gamifying your life. And you're like, you're trying to get to the next level, the next, you know, get the mushroom, get the mushroom and up your life or whatever it may be and. You know, become invincible, you know.

• 28:19Speaker 01

  That's right. Mario is in very good shape. You know, most plumbers are fat and they're showing the crack. You never see Mario's crack.

• 28:27Lewis Howes?

  Exactly, exactly. So tell me about, what's the biggest thing that holds people back from living a healthy life?

• 28:33Speaker 01

  I think the idea that they have to go to extremes, as you say. I think that little changes can make huge differences. So even if you just, if you have to sit at a desk all day, just promise yourself every thirty minutes you're gonna get up and walk around for a couple hours. That does wonders for you. Or if you, you know, you don't have time to eat healthy because you got a job that's all day, so you end up going to McDonald's. Like, just try to buy nuts, one small thing, you know, or try to buy frozen vegetables.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  I mean, that literally, if you have a microwave, frozen vegetables takes ninety seconds and you're eating something. So just don't be intimidated. Don't set the bar too high. Just start with, as they say, baby steps. And steps are good, as you know.

• 29:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, they are. Now, why did you allow yourself to be, you know, skinny, fat and out of shape and, you know, not healthy in the first place? What was it that you told yourself mentally or where were you at spiritually at that place? Because to be out of shape?

• 29:48Speaker 01

  Well, I think partly it's I'm married, and so I don't really care if I have a six pack.

• 29:55Speaker 01

  Not gonna do me any good. So I was like, ah, who cares about the body? But that's a bad way to look at it because the body and the mind are so dependent on one another. And all these studies, there's a great book called Spark by a Harvard psychologist that talks about how when you are, when you do athletics, you are smarter. Like, it actually raises certain neurochemicals in your brain. Yeah, exactly.

• 30:23Lewis Howes?

  I'll take that all day.

• 30:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, for me, since I was, you know, there's always been the stereotype of the dumb jock. And since I was not a jock in high school, I was like, alright, that sounds good to me. But it turns out the science is the other way. It's like the smart jock. You should be, you should be out there exercising because that helps you concentrate and it actually makes you smarter. I guess if you're, you know, if you're on the hockey rink all day and have no time for reading, that's when you get into trouble. But if there's a balance, you really are better off if you're moving around.

• 30:59Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. I love it. Yeah, I mean, for me, the body, like you said, is so, it's so important to have a healthy body. In my, in my mind, to be at the highest performing body that you can be on all levels because that's going to increase my productivity, my creativity, my connection to the world, because I'm gonna feel better about myself. And then mentally, I'll be able to have better thoughts.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:24Lewis Howes?

  And it kind of works together, hand in hand.

• 31:26Speaker 01

  And that's the way I feel. I mean, you got, you can't look at it, uh, working out as a waste of time. You can, you have to look at it like, here's a half an hour that's actually gonna increase my productivity. I won't be working for that half hour, but afterwards, it will make me more productive.

• 31:42Lewis Howes?

  Right, exactly. I love it. Now I want to transition into the know-it-all. Which is, which is where you, I don't know how you read so much, but you read.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  Well, I had no life. That was that much.

• 31:56Lewis Howes?

  You read the entire encyclopedia, right?

• 31:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's it. Exactly.

• 32:01Lewis Howes?

  And it was your one man's humble quest becoming the smartest person in the world. And I just love the titles. And so you read the entire encyclopedia, and you have a picture of it somewhere. I think I saw a TED speech of you talking about, and showing a picture. And I was just like, I haven't read, you know, that much from one book in my entire life of the encyclopedia. And you read all those. So it's very impressive what you've done to the extremes. Now, now, why did you want to become the smartest person in the world?

• 32:34Speaker 01

  Well, I didn't actually want to become the smartest, but I certainly wanted to get better from where I was because I felt, you know, this was about five, 10 years out of college, and I felt I was forgetting everything I learned in college. And I was spending too much time watching The Simpsons and South Park. So I thought, you know, let me, let me see what, if I can try to improve my brain. And I got the idea from my dad, because he started to read the encyclopedia when I was a kid, but he didn't finish. He made it up to the middle of the letter B, like around Boomerang or Bolivia. I don't know where it was exactly. But I thought, okay, let me see if I can finish what he began and, and try to become, you know, stuff all the knowledge that I can into my brain.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  And so that's what I did. I read for, you know, eight hours a day, and I drove my wife crazy with all of my, my extraneous facts. She started to fine me $1 for every irrelevant fact I inserted in the conversation. So I'd be, I don't know, we'd be talking about like animals, and I'd be saying, oh, you know, opossums have 13 nipples. And she'd be like, okay, that's, that's a dollar. You are not allowed to say things like that.

• 33:43Lewis Howes?

  I did not know that, but now it's a good fact. 13 nipples.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  Exactly. That is very important. In a circular pattern, FYI.

• 33:53Lewis Howes?

  This is awesome. Oh, man, you must be like really good at Jeopardy or something, right?

• 33:59Speaker 01

  Well, I did go on Who Wants to be a Millionaire. I was part of the book.

• 34:02Lewis Howes?

  No way, did you?

• 34:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So, and it was, I did okay. I did, it was, it was interesting because the nemesis in the book is my brother-in-law, my sister's brother, and he is, I think he'd be okay with me saying this, he is a bastard. He is just really cocky. He's a true know-it-all. He's always making fun of me. So I got on Who Wants to be a Millionaire, and he was my lifeline. And I got to this biology question, a $32,000 question, and I, I didn't know it, so I was like, oh, finally he can help me. Because he was a biology major at Harvard. I'm like, all right, thank God. So I called him, and he totally blew it. He totally choked. He didn't know the answer.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  So I, it was bittersweet, because I humiliated myself on national television, but I brought him down with me. So it was like, you know, and ever since, I keep asking him for my $32,000.

• 34:57Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So you, did you use another lifeline, or did you go with an answer and not get it right?

• 35:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I went with an answer and did not get it right, so.

• 35:05Lewis Howes?

  What was the, what was the question in the ans- in the answer?

• 35:08Speaker 01

  The question was, what is the meaning of the word erythrocyte? And the choices were something like, uh, white blood cell, red blood cell, serum, or platelets.

• 35:18Lewis Howes?

  What was the real answer?

• 35:19Speaker 01

  What do you think? What's your guess? Maybe I should have called you.

• 35:23Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man. Say, say it one more time, because I'm like, not even.

• 35:27Speaker 01

  Red blood cell, white blood cell, serum, or platelets. And it's, uh, what is the meaning of the word erythrocyte? Erythrocyte.

• 35:35Lewis Howes?

  The, I would take C.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  Which was what? I don't even know. Platelets?

• 35:39Lewis Howes?

  No, the other one. Platelets was the last one. What was the third one?

• 35:41Speaker 01

  Oh, serum.

• 35:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  That's what I went with, too. You and I, we are wrong. It was red blood cell. So I'll never forget that. I will never forget that one fact. I've forgotten the most of the facts, but not that one. But I will tell you, it was very, and I just wrote a piece on LinkedIn, uh, about the best, four most important business lessons from all of history. Because I did take away wisdom among the, along with the, the possum nipples. There was some actual wisdom. So, uh.

• 36:14Lewis Howes?

  What are those four lessons?

• 36:16Speaker 01

  Well, one of them is just you got to embrace rejection. Not, if, if not embrace it, at least expect it. Because history, you just read about, there are so many people who were just rejected over and over and over again, but they had perseverance and they finally found one person. That's all it takes, who believed in them. And, and then they were able to put out their product that changed the world. Like Chester Carlson, the inventor of the Xerox machine. Everyone was like, no way, who cares? Turned down by 20 companies and, you know, now, then it changed history. There's the, the whole idea of adapt or die. That's a very important idea. They call it pivoting now a lot in, uh, when you, you know, in the entrepreneurial world, you, you really have to be nimble.

• 37:01Speaker 01

  So if something's not working out, you have to change direction and you have to be good at that. And there's one story that sticks in my mind. There is this guy, um. Thomas Welch, who was a minister in the 19th century. And he was really into anti-alcohol, the temperance movement. So he invented this. He thought it was terrible that people were drinking wine in church. So he developed non-alcoholic wine. He called it Dr. Welch's Unfermented Wine. And it was grape juice. But it flopped. No one cared. No one wanted to drink grape juice in the churches. But then his son took over the business and was like, you know, this fake wine thing is not working.

• 37:43Speaker 01

  Let's just market it as a tasty treat for kids. And, and as you know, now, like, you know, every kid in kindergarten has a juice box. So that was a brilliant way to just shift your focus.

• 37:58Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, amazing.

• 38:00Speaker 01

  And I'll just give you one more, which was the idea of chutzpah or cojones, I guess is another way to say it. You know, none of the, none of the great historical figures were discovered or made an impact by staying in their, in their rooms. You know, you have to get out there. You have to network. There's one story of the famous poet Langston Hughes, who was a, he was a waiter at a hotel in Washington DC. And this, and he, and this very famous poet came in to have breakfast and Langston Hughes slipped his poems to the famous poet with his breakfast. And, and that's how he got discovered. And so sometimes you just have to take those risks and put yourself out there.

• 38:45Lewis Howes?

  You gotta have balls.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  You gotta have balls.

• 38:49Lewis Howes?

  And you gotta believe in yourself first in order for anyone else to be enrolled in believing in you.

• 38:54Speaker 01

  Exactly. Or at least pretend to believe in yourself.

• 38:57Lewis Howes?

  Fake it till you make it, like you said.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:59Lewis Howes?

  I love it. Okay, so that was, that was your quest about becoming the smartest person in the world. And then you have another quest. That was Your Life is an Experiment. And this is all about improving yourself. And tell me a little bit about that one.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  Well, that one was sort of a series of experiments where I tried to. Do more of a month-long lifestyle change and see how that happened. I was, uh, this was many years ago, so I, I decided to try to outsource my life. So I hired a team of people in Bangalore, India to do everything for me. So they answered my phone and answered my emails for me and they argued with my wife. And this was the greatest month of my life because I just sat back and read books and movies. And our mutual friend, Tim Ferriss, actually, he, he excerpted that. That was an article in Esquire and that, that makes up the eighth chapter of his book.

• 39:52Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 39:53Speaker 01

  Four-hour bot, four-hour.

• 39:55Lewis Howes?

  Four-hour work week.

• 39:55Speaker 01

  Work week, yeah.

• 39:56Lewis Howes?

  So he used your, he used your book as an example, or?

• 40:00Speaker 01

  He just reprinted the article.

• 40:02Lewis Howes?

  Oh, wow, that's awesome.

• 40:03Speaker 01

  So, uh, yeah, it's funny, for a while there, I was, uh, like, almost every other person who, who knew about my work was from Tim.

• 40:10Lewis Howes?

  From Tim, yeah.

• 40:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, such a big book.

• 40:14Speaker 01

  And, uh, and another one was I tried George Washington when he was a kid. He wrote a hundred and ten rules of life, young man, not a kid. And so I tried to follow those and, uh, and be a better person. And I'll tell you, the one of George Washington's that made a big difference in my life, it's a weird one. Because it wasn't one I expected, it was, uh, to have good posture. That guy is like, he was famous in the colonies for having really good posture, standing up straight. And so I tried it and it made me feel different. It made me feel more confident and, and more energized.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  And it turns out, just, he was ahead of his time because there are Harvard studies, just in the last few years, that if you stand up straight in a power position, like, uh, shoulders back, chest out, it actually affects your testosterone level and you become more confident. So, uh, so, yeah, uh, there's a great TED Talk about that, by the way. I forget the name of the psychologist, but she talks about.

• 41:19Lewis Howes?

  I remember this, the power position, she had like pictures of, you know, different people. You know, with their arms out or their arms behind their head and, you know, the different power positions you could be in.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the one.

• 41:32Lewis Howes?

  It was amazing. Yeah, I forget what it was called too, but it was a great one.

• 41:34Speaker 01

  So that changed my life, you know, just trying, that's, that's, that goes back to the same idea of fake it till you make it. If you, if you walk or carry yourself in a way that's sort of bold and, and open, then you will become more bold and open.

• 41:48Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. So what do you feel like is, why were you on this journey?

• 41:52Speaker 01

  Well, partly it's the idea of curiosity. I love, I once interviewed Alex Trebek of Jeopardy and he said, I'm curious about things, even those things about I don't care about, which I thought was a nice quote. So that's my idea. It's like, there's so much in the world that's fascinating. You've just got to dive in and learn about it. I think also, I do believe that in terms of improving yourself, the best way is to just do it, you know, sort of the, the whole, the Nike idea, just, just dive in and, and experiment. And sometimes it's going to be a huge failure and sometimes

• 42:31Speaker 01

  you're gonna make your life a hundred percent better. So it's all about just, just testing things out. And there's lots of science about if you do something different, it's better for your brain. Otherwise, your brain sort of creates these ruts, these neural neurological ruts. So even if it's just brushing your teeth with a different kind of toothpaste every, every week, or, or taking a new way to work, so you don't get stuck in the same pattern. To me, that's one of the keys to happiness.

• 43:05Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. I think I, I think there's a documentary called Happiness on Netflix that talked about that, is doing something.

• 43:12Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 43:12Lewis Howes?

  Doing some, yeah, it's actually interesting. It's doing something different every day, you know, brushing your teeth with your left hand as opposed to your right, whatever it may be. And so they interviewed them and said, what was the key to being, living long? And they said, being healthy. I mean, sorry, being happy.

• 43:27Speaker 01

  Right.

• 43:27Lewis Howes?

  Staying happy. And so they said, okay, how do you, how do you become happy? And they said, you know, a big part of their happiness was community and connection and being part of the community. Also, they said, sleep was a huge part and they, they take lots of naps throughout the day. They, you know, one of the women was like, I drink one shot of sake every night to put, to put them to sleep by nine o'clock.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  I will tell you, that's certainly one of the conclusions I found from the year of living healthily. In fact, there's this disease called orthorexia, which is when you're too obsessed with being healthy. It's an unhealthy obsession with eating healthy food, because you can't, and that can cause stress. And so if you are so obsessed with being healthy and working out that you can't go out to dinner with your friends because they don't have the right food, you know, that's not healthy. Because being part of a community, having friends, that's very important. So, you know, when you go out to dinner and you're being healthy, so people should not feel guilty about going out to a restaurant.

• 44:30Speaker 01

  I would say my biggest fear is, well, I'm very, I think I'm fearful of lack of control, especially with my kids. You know, I don't know, there are so many factors, what's gonna happen to them, something bad gonna happen. But I think one of the keys to happiness is that you have to realize you don't have total control, and you have to accept that. It's a horrible fact, but luck plays such a huge part in our lives, and if we just accept that, we'll be a lot less stressed out. So that's what I'm working on. Because I do believe, like, you know, you can do everything right, but just get a bad break.

• 45:13Speaker 01

  And I think that helps, if you have that mindset, it helps to be more compassionate to people who did get a bad break, you know. You know, if you're unemployed and, you know, at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder, it's not because you're lazy necessarily, or dumb, or a bad person, it often has a lot to do with your luck. And you do make your own luck to some extent, but you can't make your own luck entirely.

• 45:40Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, interesting. What do you feel like is your purpose and your vision for the rest of your life?

• 45:49Speaker 01

  Well, I I am happy in a I am happiest when I know that the work I'm doing might be helping other people. I I you know, this sounds cheesy and I would never have said this when I was like in my twenties or even my thirties, but now I'm in my forties and I'm like, you know, that is it. When I get emails from people saying, oh, I you know, your book on health made me want to become healthier, your book on on the Bible made me more grateful. That is like gold to me. And then I so if I can keep doing that and then I will be a I will die a happy man.

• 46:24Lewis Howes?

  Now, now, what is it about that feedback that you love so much? And why do you live for that? You know, to be of service to serve others in your journey?

• 46:35Speaker 01

  Well, there is some scientific data about how, you know, helping others is actually feels, you know, gets the pleasure centers of the brain, the old reward centers that they the same ones that that cocaine lights up are lit up by helping others. And it's called helpers high. So I guess that's what I'm trying to go for now, the helpers high. It's all so it's so it's not about other people. It's just getting me high.

• 47:04Lewis Howes?

  I want to finish with the final question, which is, what is your definition of greatness?

• 47:09Speaker 01

  Two words, Lewis How.

• 47:13Lewis Howes?

  I love it.

• 47:15Speaker 01

  But aside from that, I think it would be it would be I I think a sense of passion.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  Because that is everyone I read about in the encyclopedia, if they the great things they did were motivated by a passion and much many of them was a passion to help others, you know, help yourself and help others. So. To me, that's like the key ingredient. It's ajjacobs.com is my website. And I also am on Facebook slash AJ Jacobs, AJ Jacobs Twitter, the whole thing. I'm on all those various media outlets.

• 47:58Lewis Howes?

  Awesome. So make sure to connect with AJ everywhere he is online. And check out his books if you were inspired by any of the information he shared with you today about the body, about the life experiments, about the intellectual mind. Go ahead and check out his books. They're all on ajjacobs.com. AJ, thanks so much, man. I appreciate you.

• 48:18Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you. I loved being on and yeah, keep doing what you're doing. Thanks for having me.

• 48:23Lewis Howes?

  Thanks so much.

• 48:37Lewis Howes?

  And there you have it, guys. I hope you enjoyed this episode with AJ, super smart guy. I love his stories and his approach to life. And I hope you guys are really stepping it up in your lives, doing whatever it takes, going anywhere and everywhere to get the most out of your mind, body, and spirit. And again, AJ is just a great testament to some of the experiments that you can take for yourself each day to get to the next level for yourself. Achieve those dreams and really take it all to where you want to be in your life. So, hope you enjoyed this. Please check out schoolofgreatness.com for the show notes. And also, if you enjoyed this episode, I would love it if you shared it with your friends

• 49:21Lewis Howes?

  over on Twitter or Facebook or Google Plus or Instagram. You know, post a picture of on Instagram where you're listening to this episode. I would greatly appreciate it. And with that, guys, you know what? You guys know what to do. You guys have been here before. You know what to do. All you gotta do is go out there and make sure to do something great.