Share & Smooch & Tell with Katie Nolan and Michael Cruz Kayne

When did Hollywood get so good at cucking? Can hot guys be character actors? Who's your work wife? Would you drink a bucket of Wegovy? And is Shrek real? Plus: Paris Hilton, #MeSlurp, Smooching+ and the Shaquille O'Neal of hiding behind a tree... of braces. Also: Haaaaamburger. Further content: • "I Couldn't Get a Job and I Lost Everything" https://variety.com/2025/film/news/neal-mcdonough-hollywood-shut-out-kiss-women-1236474566/ • "It Had to Be You" https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4414438/ • Serena Williams Opens Up About Being on a GLP-1 https://www.vogue.com/article/serena-williams-glp-1-interview • Subscribe to "Casuals with Katie Nolan" https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-casuals-with-katie-nolan-255227604/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Pablo Torre?

  I'm Pablo Torre and this episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out is brought to you by Remy Martin 1738 Accord Royale. Exceptionally smooth cognac for all your game day festivities. Please drink responsibly because today, we're gonna find out what this sound is.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  I mean, not back in college.

• 0:21Pablo Torre?

  For god's sake. For absolute god's sake.

• 0:24Speaker 01

  But now...

• 0:24Pablo Torre?

  King offering a fist bump to a limp fist. I just got a non-consensual fist bump.

• 0:32Pablo Torre?

  Right after this ad.

• 0:36Speaker 03

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• 1:11Speaker 04

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• 1:37Pablo Torre?

  This episode is brought to you by apollo.io. A lot of the stories on this show start the same way. Something that looks pretty simple turns out to be a mess, once you look under the hood. Well, it's no different in the sales world. Your team has a tool for finding prospects, a different tool for reaching out to them, and a third for keeping track of it all. On paper, that's a system. In practice, it's a salesperson spending the better part of the day copying names from one tab into another and not much of it actually selling. Apollo.io is a platform that helps sales teams find the right buyers and reach out to them. It brings prospecting, outreach, and follow-up into one place instead of several separate tools.

• 2:19Pablo Torre?

  It's used by sales teams of all sizes, from small businesses to larger organizations, and it's built for teams who want less manual busywork and more time with buyers. If your marketing and sales teams are trying to work from the same view of the customer, it's worth a look. Sign up for free at Apollo.io. That's Apollo.io.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  Where the [bleep] were you?

• 2:47Speaker 05

  Dude, I'm at work, dude. I got a [bleep] job, dude.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  Does it make it into... So do I. Does it make it into the YouTube video if I'm not late? If I'm the one who was here first?

• 2:56Speaker 05

  Were you...

• 2:57Speaker 01

  Does it make it into it then?

• 2:59Speaker 05

  First before all... Before both of us?

• 3:02Speaker 01

  No, well...

• 3:02Speaker 05

  First before me.

• 3:03Speaker 01

  I mean, Pablo lives here. It's his office.

• 3:05Pablo Torre?

  I slept under this table.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  He works all the time and everyone's mad at him.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Is it funny?

• 3:10Pablo Torre?

  And that makes me wealthy.

• 3:12Speaker 01

  It's not your first New York Times episode because you guys did an episode without me, but I...

• 3:17Speaker 05

  With hamburger.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  This might be my first New York Times episode.

• 3:19Pablo Torre?

  Oh, that's right. In our partnership, this is a very legal, specific...

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Is it or is it not?

• 3:23Pablo Torre?

  Language in our partnership with the New York Times and The Athletic.

• 3:26Speaker 05

  That was hamburgers, New York Times, right?

• 3:27Pablo Torre?

  Yeah. Hamburger made its debut in The Athletic Podcast Network in partnership with the New York Times. Do you guys not pick up what I'm putting down? This is a very specifically...

• 3:37Speaker 01

  Apple time!

• 3:37Pablo Torre?

  Oh, yeah, we got merch. A fan...

• 3:39Speaker 01

  That's a nice hat.

• 3:40Pablo Torre?

  A fan-made merch. This is not even our own doing, but thank you to Ernie Threads.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  I want that. Ernie Threads, let me get one.

• 3:46Speaker 05

  Ernie Threads!

• 3:46Speaker 01

  Look at that stick hat. What's the joke? I missed... Not that I don't listen to every episode, Pablo. It's just...

• 3:52Speaker 05

  I have the "Transferred Every Episode" tattooed on my back if you want to read it.

• 3:55Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:55Speaker 05

  Every episode.

• 3:56Pablo Torre?

  This is a key part of the thing that people are already sick of us doing.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  On your back? You big-backed?

• 4:00Pablo Torre?

  It's an apple time, sure.

• 4:01Speaker 05

  Billy Big Bang.

• 4:02Pablo Torre?

  How are you guys?

• 4:04Speaker 01

  Good.

• 4:04Speaker 05

  Can I say something? Did Alonso at Hamburger, did he send you a message on Instagram?

• 4:08Pablo Torre?

  Yes, he did. He sent me a text. "I got, 'Dear Pablo, mere words cannot express my gratitude for allowing me to guest on your podcast. I never imagined the episode would achieve such an overwhelming response. I truly appreciate the opportunity. Kudos to your editing staff. What an awesome job!" Exclamation point. It goes on, it goes on. Hamburger was not entirely sure when he joined whether it was in fact Michael's show or not. I think for various parts.

• 4:30Speaker 05

  It's not clear to him still.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  I feel bad. I'm glad it went well. I also felt bad in the moment being blindsided by Hamburger because I did feel like I owed it to stand-up comedy to have known who that was. I should have known that. That was like the whitest thing I've ever done was not knowing who he was.

• 4:43Pablo Torre?

  I think it's the whitest thing that all of us had ever done.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  And then I got left out of when you guys got to go like, "We're not that white." And I'm like, "Yeah, that's, I know."

• 4:49Speaker 05

  Because we literally aren't that white.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  I know.

• 4:52Pablo Torre?

  We had to lose you on account of being the whitest person in the room.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:56Pablo Torre?

  But he was so gracious.

• 5:00Speaker 05

  What, that's so sweet.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  That's so sweet.

• 5:02Pablo Torre?

  No one sends a thank you note after.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  No.

• 5:05Pablo Torre?

  That begins, "Dear Pablo, mere words cannot express my gratitude." And it goes on. I'm just like, this man.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's really sweet. That made me cry a little bit.

• 5:13Pablo Torre?

  And now I just love that people on our like social accounts just, whenever you do something notable, people just go, "Hamburger."

• 5:21Speaker 05

  Speaking of your social accounts, I don't think this show follows me. I don't think I'm followed by this show on Instagram. And honestly, that's fine. Whatever. Whatever.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  I don't follow this show.

• 5:32Speaker 05

  What's that? I don't follow anyone. So maybe that's why. I never follow the show.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  You don't follow anyone?

• 5:37Speaker 05

  I follow my wife, my son, my sister, my brother.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  But it's part of the ecosystem. In order, if anyone's gonna follow you, you owe it to follow.

• 5:45Speaker 05

  Well, I don't, though.

• 5:45Pablo Torre?

  This is why we weren't in the VIP line for a special. It was those people that he follows.

• 5:49Speaker 05

  You were.

• 5:49Speaker 01

  If you were on Instagram, you'd know we're a big deal. If you followed us, you'd know.

• 5:54Speaker 05

  I only, I only look at the people, like if you, let's say you like my thing, then I look, then I look at your thing.

• 6:00Speaker 01

  That's, do you realize how that sounds? Are you hearing yourself say it?

• 6:04Speaker 05

  You don't understand, though. Yes, it sounds bad, but the people, the people.

• 6:08Pablo Torre?

  It sounds purely transactional.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  If you like me, I'll consider you.

• 6:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, people look at my, like, I look through, people look at my story, you know, whatever. Then I look, then I go click, click, click, click, click through those people.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  That's insane. That's an insane person's behavior.

• 6:20Speaker 05

  If I follow, I don't want to be following people on Instagram. It's too much.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  What if the people who look at your story don't know, what if you don't know them? What if they're just people who look at your-

• 6:26Speaker 05

  Then I very quickly, I'm like, I'm not, well, I'm not following this.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  What a waste of your precious time.

• 6:30Speaker 05

  I don't know. I think if I followed more people on Instagram, it would be, it would be bad for my, Twitter, Twitter now is absolutely horrible for me.

• 6:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, Twitter sucks in general.

• 6:38Speaker 05

  It does.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  It's gone. I miss what it was.

• 6:40Pablo Torre?

  Disagree.

• 6:41Speaker 05

  You like it better now.

• 6:42Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 6:43Speaker 05

  Because you're, but you're famous now.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  You're engaging in stuff. I mean, you're having full back and forths with billionaires.

• 6:49Speaker 05

  For you, it's good.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  That's why Twitter sucks, because I log on for, like, little jokey joke.

• 6:53Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 6:54Speaker 01

  The, the, the website that used to be all about the character limit that taught me about how to make things, it made me funnier.

• 6:59Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 7:00Speaker 01

  Is now I log on and it's 18 paragraphs from a billionaire about how business works at my friend. And I don't understand or care about any of it. And I go, I'm just gonna go scroll through people's pictures from vacation.

• 7:12Pablo Torre?

  Can I confess that, like, I'm so glad?

• 7:14Speaker 01

  Have we started the podcast?

• 7:15Pablo Torre?

  I don't know anymore.

• 7:15Speaker 01

  This is so exact, can we just say that the podcast is gonna start?

• 7:18Speaker 05

  Well, a thing that used to happen with this podcast also, it used to be like, hey, guys, before you come in, have like some this, this, and this prepared.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've stopped drinking and stuff.

• 7:25Speaker 05

  Now it's just absolutely Wild West.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  I know.

• 7:27Speaker 05

  Anything can happen on this podcast.

• 7:29Pablo Torre?

  It used to be a thing where I tried to structure it, and now I just see this so genuinely as relief. And I mean that in every sense, like, relief for-

• 7:38Speaker 01

  This is how most people use a social life. But I, I understand.

• 7:45Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This feels like a nice change of pace.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  I lost him.

• 7:49Pablo Torre?

  I was, I was, I was like-

• 7:50Speaker 01

  I lost him completely. And then you started writing an email. What did you say?

• 7:52Pablo Torre?

  I was just making sure that the Paris Hilton TV series was not called The Social Life. It was called The Simple Life.

• 7:59Speaker 05

  The Simple Life.

• 8:00Pablo Torre?

  And I was like, are you comparing me to just like this episode to just-

• 8:03Speaker 05

  Was Nicole Richie also on The Simple Life?

• 8:05Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:06Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  They did a whole, um, you know, that pitchfork, what's that called? American?

• 8:11Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 8:11Speaker 05

  Gothic.

• 8:11Pablo Torre?

  American Gothic.

• 8:12Speaker 05

  Grant is part of it. Grant's show is not correct. That's the guy from Melrose Place who's married to the lady who won the Emmy.

• 8:19Speaker 01

  Who, which one?

• 8:20Speaker 05

  Is this the podcast?

• 8:21Speaker 01

  That won the Emmy. Did you see Chris Milliotti's speech? Most likable lady on earth. I love that woman. She was so good in Penguin.

• 8:28Pablo Torre?

  I did not see it.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  And her speech was so cute. It was just so sweet. Thank you so much. I love you and I love acting so much.

• 8:39Speaker 05

  She seems delightful.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  She seems delightful.

• 8:41Pablo Torre?

  She was there.

• 8:41Speaker 05

  I saw her in Once the Musical on Broadway.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 8:45Speaker 05

  And she was.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  I love Once the Musical.

• 8:47Speaker 05

  Incredible.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  Wait, she can sing?

• 8:49Speaker 05

  Oh, brother.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  Oh, **** hell. I think she kissed Dan. I think she kissed Dan in a movie. I've never watched it. Dan's in a rom-com.

• 8:56Pablo Torre?

  Now we're finding out stuff.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  Just don't, please don't show it to me. I'd rather see the bathtub, okay? I don't like the...

• 9:03Speaker 05

  Why did you say the bathtub?

• 9:04Speaker 01

  Because I don't want them to show me them kissing.

• 9:07Speaker 05

  Don't the bathtub.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  Because she's so cool. She's so funny.

• 9:10Speaker 05

  There's no reason for the bathtub.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  She's so pretty, she's so successful. I know it's acting, but I don't, I'm not an actor. So I'm not built, I don't know what actors have in them, the ability to go...

• 9:19Speaker 05

  The ability?

• 9:20Speaker 01

  That's not my husband that's kissing that person. I go like, ew, stop.

• 9:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think, I think actors have the ability to break up and get divorced. That's what they have.

• 9:29Pablo Torre?

  Can we talk about, this is a good topic.

• 9:30Speaker 05

  Okay, here we go. Here we are.

• 9:32Pablo Torre?

  Here we are.

• 9:32Speaker 05

  We've landed on...

• 9:33Pablo Torre?

  We found it on...

• 9:34Speaker 01

  This is what I brought. I'm gonna, I feel like I'm gonna expose myself. I feel like that's not a progressive way of thinking. I feel like I'm embarrassingly monogamous.

• 9:43Pablo Torre?

  Hmm.

• 9:44Speaker 05

  I see what you're saying. I also, I also feel that way. Uh, I think that if I had to do, well, first of all, I'm nowhere even remotely near the level of success that someone is like, would you want to be in this scene that involves a lot of smooching?

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:58Speaker 05

  Or smooching plus, God forbid.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  I mean, I couldn't.

• 10:02Speaker 05

  But the idea...

• 10:02Pablo Torre?

  That's the streaming service.

• 10:03Speaker 05

  The idea, yeah. The idea of smooching plus is absolutely, it's horrifying to me. And I guess it is, that's just part of it.

• 10:11Speaker 01

  Just looking at it.

• 10:12Speaker 05

  It's just part of it.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  I would never, I'm, I don't know if I would never stop him. I would never stop him from doing something he wants to do. We would have to have a conversation. But I would absolutely stop myself from watching it. That's like, I wouldn't, it would bum me out. Why would I do that?

• 10:26Pablo Torre?

  This was like a controversy, it's always, it seems a controversy. Certainly when it comes to like the Superman stuff. Have you guys heard about that controversy?

• 10:34Speaker 05

  What's a Superman?

• 10:35Speaker 01

  No, I don't think.

• 10:37Pablo Torre?

  So David Koren Swett.

• 10:38Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 10:39Pablo Torre?

  Who is the new Superman and the Lois Lane.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  Visually, I haven't seen it yet. Visually, what a Superman, huh?

• 10:44Speaker 05

  Yum yum delish.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  I didn't. That's not what I meant, but also, yes.

• 10:48Speaker 05

  Is it not what you meant?

• 10:50Speaker 01

  But isn't.

• 10:50Speaker 05

  Absolutely Superman. Like if you, if you just, if you saw that guy walking down the street, you'd be like, well, that's Superman. That's probably Superman.

• 10:56Speaker 01

  Oh, is this Superman? Yeah.

• 10:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think I just saw Superman.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  He has glasses on, but I think it's him.

• 11:00Pablo Torre?

  I think I have delish heat vision.

• 11:01Speaker 05

  Have you seen his, okay, I'm not even letting you get the thing you wanted to say. Have you seen his audition tape? His audition tape was circulating.

• 11:06Speaker 01

  Great.

• 11:06Pablo Torre?

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:06Speaker 05

  Oh, my God, this guy's so good.

• 11:08Speaker 01

  A lot of credit goes to his, also his partner, his, I believe that's his girlfriend or wife or whatever his relationship situation is that's doing the reading with him. I'm like, they're doing a great job.

• 11:16Speaker 06

  It's August 28th, 2025, about 3:00 PM. I'm sitting here with, of all people, Superman.

• 11:24Speaker 07

  Hello.

• 11:25Speaker 06

  Welcome.

• 11:25Speaker 07

  Thank you. I'm pleased to be here.

• 11:32Speaker 06

  This is weird.

• 11:35Speaker 07

  I'm not weirded out at all. You said you wanted to interview me.

• 11:38Speaker 06

  Yes, but I've helped Dan with self tapes and been like, oh, I'm not given with that.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  She was letting things breathe.

• 11:44Speaker 05

  Has also helped me with self tapes. And I feel like, my wife has, went to college for acting as an incredible actress, but sometimes she's like, I'm really not into doing this for the 50th time.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 11:52Speaker 05

  So I have to, I have to get in those first few takes or she very, absolutely reasonably is like, I think this is enough now.

• 11:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think we have it. If we were gonna get it, we got it.

• 12:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, none of these takes are different at this point.

• 12:04Pablo Torre?

  I love the gentle.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  And you're in severance, so.

• 12:06Pablo Torre?

  The gentle feedback of like, you need to stop thinking this is gonna get better.

• 12:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, what is happening is progressively you are getting more tired, not better.

• 12:15Pablo Torre?

  Rachel Brosnahan.

• 12:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 12:17Pablo Torre?

  Plays Lois Lane in The New Superman.

• 12:19Speaker 01

  She's great. She was great in Maisel, but she was also great in House of Cards.

• 12:24Speaker 05

  House of Cards? Yeah, she's great in House of Cards.

• 12:26Pablo Torre?

  So the point being that there was this controversy around her significant other in real life, um, her partner, and, uh, it's a function of how steamy the chemistry was.

• 12:38Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 12:38Pablo Torre?

  Between the two of them, such that even there were these, like, behind the scenes, uh, videos of like, maybe her planting.

• 12:48Pablo Torre?

  Seemingly a smooch after the camera had stopped rolling so into the scene they were.

• 12:54Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 12:55Pablo Torre?

  This was one of the clips that got circulated. And so the question that happened was, how does her partner in real life feel now that all of these people are in his mentions, making fun of him for being cucked by Yum Yum Delish Superman?

• 13:11Speaker 01

  I mean, anybody would be.

• 13:12Speaker 05

  I think the mentions are, the mentions really amplify the problem, I think. Because it's like, you know, when two people are talking and the conversation's kind of innocuous and a third person comes by and is like, oh, shit. You're like, wait, did I?

• 13:23Speaker 01

  Wait, were we at that? I didn't feel that, but now that it's been felt, I have to take the offensive.

• 13:28Speaker 05

  Has the podcast started? It's just the podcast. The, so I could see that being, however, whatever capability you have to overcome just the smooching plus, a third party jumping in and being like, you should be upset about this, I think would make you naturally. I'm not strong enough to imagine a world where that doesn't make me feel worse.

• 13:48Pablo Torre?

  So here's a Variety headline from July of this year.

• 13:51Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 13:51Pablo Torre?

  As this episode now.

• 13:52Speaker 05

  So this is effectively news. This is just.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  Breaking.

• 13:54Pablo Torre?

  Guys, we're in the news cycle right now. Neil McDonough says in Variety, quote, Hollywood turned on me, end quote.

• 14:02Speaker 05

  Oh, I remember this.

• 14:04Pablo Torre?

  I wouldn't kiss another woman on screen.

• 14:05Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 14:06Pablo Torre?

  Colon, I couldn't get a job and I lost everything.

• 14:09Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 14:10Pablo Torre?

  Neil McDonough, veteran character actor who's appeared in everything from Band of Brothers to Desperate Housewives, Minority Report, American Horror Story, Suits and more.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  What a, what a IMDb.

• 14:19Speaker 05

  Suits and more.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 14:20Pablo Torre?

  Suits plus.

• 14:21Speaker 05

  Smooching plus.

• 14:22Pablo Torre?

  He revealed during an interview on the Nothing Left Unsaid podcast that Hollywood shut him out when he refused to kiss other actors on screen.

• 14:28Speaker 05

  Yeah, I remember, I remember hearing about this.

• 14:30Pablo Torre?

  They have five children together, he and Ruve Robertson. Since 2003, they have been married. He said in his contracts that he wouldn't kiss another woman on screen. And it was him really who had a problem with it. This is the quote, "My wife didn't have any problem with it, but he couldn't do it and Hollywood turned on him." Apparently. He got blackballed is what he's saying because.

• 14:51Pablo Torre?

  He had this rule.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  That's, but that, um.

• 14:54Pablo Torre?

  Real Katie Nolan position is what I'm hearing. That's what you, that's what you would do.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  Um, I don't know. I just like, I can't, um. I have always said, I don't think I'd be a very good actress because I'm not very, my, I kinda only am just this one way. And if you like it, that's awesome. And if you don't, unfortunately, this is what I've got. And so acting's always interesting to me. I also feel like with the rise of misinformation, just to like zoom out a little bit. Every, the thing I'm losing sight of first is like real and fake. The, anything that blurs the line of real and fake to me at this time makes me go like, I don't know. I think we need to know what's real and what's fake because it's, things are starting to get a little.

• 15:37Pablo Torre?

  Oh wait, what are you talking about?

• 15:38Speaker 01

  Unmoored.

• 15:38Pablo Torre?

  You're talking about crisis.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  I'm zooming out too far to then zoom back in.

• 15:41Pablo Torre?

  Okay.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  That like, the, I've always had, I've struggled with being able to act. I couldn't act like I was kissing somebody unless I really was enjoying kissing them. That would be what I would have to do.

• 15:52Pablo Torre?

  You're a method, you're a method.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  I would have to be enjoying it to look like I was enjoying it. I mean, not back in college.

• 15:59Speaker 05

  For god's sake. For absolute god's sake.

• 16:02Pablo Torre?

  King offering a fist bump to a limp fist.

• 16:05Speaker 05

  I just got, I just got a non-consensual fist bump.

• 16:09Speaker 01

  But now as a fully realized, connected adult, like I can't, um, I don't know how people do. That's how I recognize, what I'm trying to explain is how I recognize acting is a skill. Because there are people that just go like, yeah, I'm, I'm kissing that person. It is, it means nothing. I am not enjoying it. They actually have really bad breath. The ability to just make it seem like this incredible, to create fake chemistry is the antithesis to me of what my whole life is about. So I, that's why I, why am I explaining this? And you're looking at me like I'm crazy.

• 16:39Pablo Torre?

  I think this is a compliment?

• 16:40Speaker 01

  I don't know. I'm just trying to explain why I don't, why I can't do that. And I respect that he, I think he's saying the same.

• 16:47Speaker 05

  I think, I respect, I respect it too, being like, I look, I just don't want to do that. It makes me feel weird. Is it, is that you got blackballed? Like every, every part they were like, and this is, and it's smooching plus.

• 16:59Pablo Torre?

  Quote.

• 16:59Speaker 01

  Is it he finished all those roles and then said, no more kissing? And they were like, bye?

• 17:03Speaker 05

  I don't remember, I don't know his oeuvre well enough to know how much smooching he's done on screen.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  I'm scrolling through my library of times I've seen his face and I don't see any where there's parted lips.

• 17:12Speaker 05

  Also, I don't think of him as a, I think he's too, I guess maybe I'm misunderstanding the definition of a character actor. Cause I think he's kind of too handsome to be a character actor. To me, a character actor is someone who you look at and you're like, ew, how'd he get famous? You know what I mean? But this guy, right away.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  Oh, I thought a character actor, and I could be wrong, but he's went to Harvard. Where'd you go? Just so we can, I can know who to appeal to.

• 17:31Speaker 05

  New York University.

• 17:33Speaker 01

  Also, really good.

• 17:34Speaker 05

  Hey, thanks, pal.

• 17:35Speaker 01

  But in this situation, you're picking Harvard.

• 17:37Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 17:37Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  I thought a character actor was like a guy who plays a lot of, like, small, or woman, a guy is gender neutral, who plays a lot of, like, little roles in big things that you've seen that, like, really help the plot, but they don't get a lot of credit.

• 17:50Speaker 05

  Sure, sure, but you wouldn't say, like, you know, there are, for example, on Sex and the City, there are sometimes an actor who's like the [bleep] hot guy in this episode, and you wouldn't be like, that's a character actor.

• 18:00Speaker 01

  Oh, sure, sure.

• 18:01Pablo Torre?

  But, so, for instance, Paul Giamatti, Philip Seymour Hoffman.

• 18:05Speaker 05

  Character actor.

• 18:06Pablo Torre?

  So this is, this is part of, I think.

• 18:07Speaker 01

  Oh, then I'm wrong with what I think it is.

• 18:08Speaker 05

  Steve Buscemi, character actor.

• 18:10Pablo Torre?

  So, so, when I had Hank Azaria on the show, I was calling him a character actor, not sure if that was pejorative.

• 18:17Speaker 05

  I don't think it's necessar- some people might take offense.

• 18:19Pablo Torre?

  But I guess for him, like, he was literally, he's known for different characters and voices, so I think for him, maybe it's different, but the definition of it seems to be an actor known for playing unusual, or eccentric, or interesting characters in supporting roles, rather than leading ones. So it doesn't need to be like you're on screen for a second, but you're just not the main guy, and you are, apparently, pretty weird.

• 18:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's like a little bit of a weirdo. Like, this guy's playing, like, the, the, the police chief, you know what I mean?

• 18:45Pablo Torre?

  Well, I guess, well, character actor is also kind of like a backhanded way of saying, like, you're also not.

• 18:51Speaker 01

  You're not the famous guy.

• 18:52Pablo Torre?

  You're not the hottie.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  You're not the big, famous hottie.

• 18:53Speaker 05

  The hot guy's not the character actor, normally.

• 18:55Pablo Torre?

  Can hot guys be character actors?

• 18:57Speaker 01

  Probably, let's think of one.

• 18:59Speaker 05

  Laugh to your face.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  I'm thinking, I'm looking at all the pictures.

• 19:02Pablo Torre?

  Katie's spank bank is very, it's very painful to cycle through.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  I'm scanning my hot guy repertoire. Mmm, looking really hard, ooh. Uh, I don't have, I don't, no.

• 19:12Speaker 05

  I don't think I could do, I don't think I could do, I mean.

• 19:16Pablo Torre?

  But this seems to be.

• 19:17Speaker 05

  I don't think I could do the smooching either.

• 19:18Pablo Torre?

  Just because.

• 19:19Speaker 05

  I mean, I guess I would do it, but I'd be so [bleep] stressed out.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  Sorry, that was for your wife.

• 19:24Speaker 05

  He said he would do it.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  He said he wants to kiss other people.

• 19:26Speaker 05

  I would be so stressed out. The idea of it is just, is very stressful.

• 19:29Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, I don't think it would be comfortable.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Whenever I've heard people talk about it, they talk about how valuable having like a very comfortable scene partner is. That it's like, oh, I depended on that person the entire time because they are, they do this all the time. And for me, I was very freaked out by it.

• 19:44Speaker 05

  Even that feels kind of something to me, right?

• 19:46Speaker 01

  Well, that's why we have intimacy coordinators.

• 19:48Speaker 05

  You know, like Joan made it, what's that?

• 19:49Speaker 01

  I said, that's why they have intimacy coordinators.

• 19:51Speaker 05

  I guess.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  But now it's become a cool thing to signal that like, I didn't even need or want one. I actually told them to take the day off. And you're like, they're, they're.

• 19:59Pablo Torre?

  I'll coordinate this myself.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  You're not helping. You're not helping.

• 20:02Speaker 05

  But even when they are like, you know, oh, but I was so scared to do it, but then I worked with Sarah and she made it so easy. It's like, that's also kind of like, wait, it makes it, makes, sounds like, oh, we have a special, I'm in love with this woman.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:14Speaker 05

  It was actually quite easy because I'm in love with her.

• 20:16Pablo Torre?

  Well, there's also just the larger context, and this is true of all workplaces, where like, people who work together, especially in romantic settings, the performance of romantic, at least, they do actually end up dating.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:28Speaker 05

  Like a showmance.

• 20:30Pablo Torre?

  A showmance.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I.

• 20:32Pablo Torre?

  Like the whole work wife premise?

• 20:33Speaker 01

  I was gonna say, I've met a lot of, um, of the people that I've dated at various jobs throughout my life. So like, I, that also probably I'm realizing feeds into why I feel this way where I'm like, if my job were to kiss you and they, everybody claps, like, of course, your brain, your brain would have to be so strong to not go like, so we're in love with this person, right?

• 20:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think so.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  This is, we're performing a relationship.

• 20:59Pablo Torre?

  Now we're podcasting.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  So I've, am I a bad person that I'm like, oh, it would be tough? Anyway, the whole point was.

• 21:05Pablo Torre?

  I think it's almost, I think you're almost virtue signaling.

• 21:08Speaker 01

  Oh, no. That's bad, right?

• 21:10Speaker 05

  You're pure.

• 21:11Speaker 01

  I, I wish, I think what it is, is I'm fascinated by people's ability to go, oh, well, that's acting. It doesn't matter. And I'm like, oh, I wouldn't. Be able to do that. I just don't think I would be able to do that.

• 21:21Speaker 05

  I understand that it's acting. I understand that, but it would still, it would make me uncomfortable if my wife, who was an actress, was like, I'm gonna be an actor again, and the first role I'm taking is Smooch City. I'm gonna be like, well, I wish you, I wish you would take something else.

• 21:34Pablo Torre?

  The spin city spinoff.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  If it's like, is that why you got back into it? So that you could go smooch? I just feel like it would be like if the murder was real.

• 21:42Speaker 05

  If the murder.

• 21:42Speaker 01

  If you would go into a movie set and when you were acting murder, you actually murdered. It's like that you actually kissed.

• 21:50Pablo Torre?

  Right. This is like Tom Cruise actually doing his own stunts.

• 21:53Speaker 05

  This is, this is so close to you being like, I think Shrek might be real.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. And why not? Has anyone considered Fiona? Probably not. But Shrek? Certainly.

• 22:03Pablo Torre?

  There is a donkey thing I, workshopping over here.

• 22:06Speaker 01

  Let us know when you get it.

• 22:24Pablo Torre?

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• 22:57Speaker 03

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• 24:03Pablo Torre?

  The work wife as a related concept. Okay. Which is a thing that is certainly like, speaking of just like, things people are talking about this year, I feel like I've been inundated with like, work wife viral.

• 24:13Speaker 01

  Oh, because of the Coldplay thing?

• 24:14Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 24:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. You saw that, obviously.

• 24:17Pablo Torre?

  Of course.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just didn't know. Sometimes I don't know. This one, I think, got to every single buddy.

• 24:22Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  That exists.

• 24:24Pablo Torre?

  But just the premise.

• 24:24Speaker 01

  Kind of like Hocktua.

• 24:27Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, good. We're just gonna be just churning out references. Let's rank the things that. You guys know Hocktua?

• 24:32Speaker 01

  I watched a guy watch that on his phone.

• 24:34Pablo Torre?

  Speaking of Smoochun Plus, you know what I mean?

• 24:40Speaker 01

  The work wife. You got a work wife, Pablo?

• 24:42Pablo Torre?

  Uh, yeah, Rob. I can see Rob being your work wife. Rob's been whispering sweet nothings into my ear this whole podcast.

• 24:49Speaker 01

  That's really sweet.

• 24:50Pablo Torre?

  He sent me a photo of a guy named Robert, is it Richard, Richard? I don't know how to pronounce.

• 24:56Speaker 01

  He's doing this?

• 24:56Pablo Torre?

  He has, he has a, he has an apostrophe between the R.I., apostrophe, and the charred. And he looks like that guy that we just talked about, Neil McDonough.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  We've named too many men? I've lost them in my mind.

• 25:11Pablo Torre?

  So check this out. This is Neil McDonough.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 25:13Pablo Torre?

  Check this out.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. It's a real Jay-Z Troy Aikman.

• 25:18Pablo Torre?

  We got a Jay-Z Troy Aikman situation with Robert Richard.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. I see it.

• 25:23Pablo Torre?

  That's what Rob's whispering into my ear.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  Thanks, Rob, that's helpful stuff.

• 25:25Pablo Torre?

  We've had a side chat about this guy for a while.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  And you guys work, Smooch, you said?

• 25:29Pablo Torre?

  I mean, it just feels like emotionally fraught sometimes.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  So he did kiss her, you're saying?

• 25:34Pablo Torre?

  David Lawrence, what?

• 25:36Speaker 01

  No, Dan and Chris Milliotti.

• 25:38Pablo Torre?

  Oh. Oh.

• 25:41Speaker 05

  So.

• 25:42Speaker 01

  So that's super cool chick who's incredible at her job.

• 25:45Speaker 05

  And great at singing. Did I mention incredible singer?

• 25:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, you did mention it. It's how this came up.

• 25:48Speaker 05

  I think she plays an instrument too.

• 25:50Speaker 01

  Wow, I bet. Wow, I bet.

• 25:52Speaker 05

  And my god, when you see her play the piano, you will be blown away. I mean, my goodness. So you were at the Emmys? I was at the Emmys, yes.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Did you win? You won an Emmy?

• 26:00Speaker 05

  I did not win an Emmy.

• 26:01Speaker 01

  I'm sorry. Is that the mean? If you had one, I would have felt bad if I said.

• 26:04Speaker 05

  No, that's okay. That's okay. I did not win an Emmy. I was at the Emmys.

• 26:06Speaker 01

  He didn't win a Peabody.

• 26:07Speaker 05

  I did.

• 26:07Speaker 01

  Peabody. Peabody.

• 26:08Speaker 05

  God damn it. I won a Peabody. We heard. Anyway.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  I've seen.

• 26:13Speaker 05

  Yeah. I've also seen.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  Because we hang out without cameras.

• 26:17Speaker 05

  We did that one time. That one time. That one time we did. Never again, probably, but possibly.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  No, yeah.

• 26:22Speaker 05

  Even when we do hang out without the cameras, it's almost like this.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:26Speaker 05

  It's like, have you seen? Pablo takes out his computer.

• 26:31Speaker 01

  What were you saying?

• 26:32Speaker 05

  I have no idea. You were at the Emmys and you won but didn't? Well, I didn't win. The show that I work for won.

• 26:38Speaker 01

  That's winning.

• 26:39Speaker 05

  That's winning.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  That's winning.

• 26:41Speaker 05

  Well, I don't get a statue. The producers, etc., get statues. I don't get a statue. But it was pretty fun. It was cool.

• 26:48Speaker 01

  That's sick.

• 26:48Speaker 05

  Yeah. So that's kind of.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  And you were nominated for Severance?

• 26:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, I was nominated for smallest role.

• 26:54Speaker 01

  Tiniest little half of a face.

• 26:56Speaker 05

  Least likely to be seen on an episode of a television from a season that was before this year.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah. And they just, that's new this year. They just started giving that out. Last year's best tiny guy from a show, I think.

• 27:05Speaker 05

  Uh huh. Good. This feels good. Best actor in a cable news reenactment. Yeah. Best actor on a TV show inside a TV show.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  I don't know. Hold on. There were a lot.

• 27:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, that probably goes to like Wolf Blitzer in something.

• 27:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:17Speaker 05

  Right. Like Sharknado.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  Somebody from Succession, the other S show.

• 27:22Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm. Good. A great show.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. Were you in that?

• 27:25Speaker 05

  I'll tell you what. I was in that, but they cut me out. A fun story about that was.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  Wait, you literally were in it and they cut you out?

• 27:31Speaker 05

  I literally was in it. I had. I heard this recently when Hamburger was there in your turn. Did I tell the story on Hamburger? You referenced it, but I was actually curious, like, what happened? I think it was the pilot I was in won. I had one line. I think the line was like, "Hey Captain," or something like that.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  Nice, that was good.

• 27:47Speaker 05

  Boy. One of those. It's one of those things where like, you know, on the day of, they're like, "Oh [bleep], they just wrote a new, uh, who does anybody know that could do this?" I think it's, I think that's how I got that. I get there and the director gives me a very specific set of instructions. He's like, "I want you, at this exact moment when this thing is happening, that's when I want you to say this line to Jeremy Strong." And then Jeremy Strong is like, "Hey, I get conflicting ideas from..."

• 28:13Speaker 01

  Oh no.

• 28:14Speaker 05

  Jeremy Strong. Maybe, I don't know, maybe it wasn't Jeremy Strong. Anyway, I get, I get two-

• 28:18Speaker 01

  Different, very specific.

• 28:20Speaker 05

  Absolutely opposite directions. So I abs, I just- So you smooched? I'm abs, I, yeah, I'm totally in smooch city. I kiss him.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  I kiss.

• 28:26Speaker 05

  So I kiss him. I try, I tried, I tried to kiss him.

• 28:29Speaker 01

  I tried to plus.

• 28:30Speaker 05

  I just felt so, I was so anxious about this one line, and I said it, and you'll, you'll never see it anyplace. It's, it's not a line that's necessary in the show. What was the line?

• 28:39Speaker 01

  He thinks it's "Hey Captain."

• 28:40Speaker 05

  The line, I'm pretty sure was, "Hey Captain," or, "Hi Captain," or-

• 28:44Speaker 01

  It's gotta be so scary when you sense that like-

• 28:47Speaker 05

  Or you're the captain now.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  I have to do this perfect, or they're like, gonna be mad at me.

• 28:52Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  Like, "Do it exactly like this," and you're like, "It's not, we're not feeling out the scene. I'm here to do this if I don't do it right."

• 28:59Speaker 05

  I'm effectively a lamp.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  If I screw him up, it's gonna be a big problem.

• 29:03Speaker 05

  That's exactly right. And so it's, and it's also, one of the first times that I was on a set where it's like, "Oh, this is like, really real." It's very real. So just like, I'm stressed out, I'm getting complete opposite directions, I'm trying to do it right, I'm su- It's almost impossible to do it like, really badly, I think.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 29:21Speaker 05

  The other fun thing about doing it that early on is I don't, the other actors in the show didn't know that I was no one, I don't think.

• 29:28Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 29:29Speaker 05

  So I'm like, in holding with them, just like, chilling with all them. And everybody was super nice.

• 29:32Speaker 01

  Cool cast.

• 29:33Speaker 05

  That's kind of the end of that story.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  That's really cool.

• 29:35Speaker 05

  But I was in succession, even if you can imagine it, less than I was in severance.

• 29:40Speaker 01

  It's very funny. And I'll just also say, they don't, um, only cut stuff that was bad, or that they didn't like.

• 29:47Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 29:48Speaker 01

  They have to cut stuff for time.

• 29:49Speaker 05

  You know what? It might have been too good. They might have thought, "If we show this guy, we gotta do a spinoff."

• 29:53Speaker 01

  Exactly what I was saying.

• 29:54Speaker 05

  We're gonna have to do a "Hey Captain" spinoff.

• 29:55Speaker 01

  Exactly what, and he can't steal the show.

• 29:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, coming this year to HBO Family. "Hey Captain." "Hey Captain."

• 30:04Pablo Torre?

  The story of an intern at Waystar Royco.

• 30:09Speaker 01

  That's where you started, but wait till you see where he ends up.

• 30:12Pablo Torre?

  Wait till you see he ends up a hobo.

• 30:16Pablo Torre?

  Katie, what do you know about the thing where Dan smooched?

• 30:20Speaker 01

  Uh, it's either called It Had To Be You, or It's Only You, or There Was Always You. It's something-

• 30:27Pablo Torre?

  It's a movie or it's a-

• 30:27Speaker 01

  It's a movie.

• 30:29Pablo Torre?

  You know what the plot is?

• 30:30Speaker 01

  No, I don't. I don't. And this isn't because I don't love him. It's because I do. It's because I love him so, so much.

• 30:37Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, you're ready. You're about to find out what it's about.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  And that's fine. I can do the plot. Just please don't actually show me them kissing.

• 30:43Pablo Torre?

  Is it, it had to be you? Pablo's trying to engineer a fight between you and Dan. It had to be you.

• 30:48Speaker 01

  Is that, that's what it's called?

• 30:49Pablo Torre?

  That's what it's called.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 30:50Pablo Torre?

  Sonia, a neurotic and charming jingle writer, dreams of having an exciting life. I wonder if she sings and plays the piano in there too.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  Oh my god, it's like Zooey Deschanel.

• 30:58Pablo Torre?

  It is riveting.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  I bet.

• 31:00Pablo Torre?

  The sudden marriage proposal from her boyfriend-

• 31:02Speaker 01

  And that's him?

• 31:03Pablo Torre?

  Forces Sonia to confront whether she joins the ranks of her married friends or pursue her fantasies.

• 31:09Speaker 01

  Is he not even named? Like, as the character?

• 31:12Pablo Torre?

  Are they, is he the lead of the movie? Sonia, a thirty-something young woman, panics when live-in boyfriend Chris Jensen-

• 31:18Speaker 01

  Is that him?

• 31:19Pablo Torre?

  Dan Soder.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  Okay, Chris Jensen.

• 31:20Pablo Torre?

  Let's go! Proposes marriage.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:23Pablo Torre?

  Her refusal hurts him, and he walks out. Sorry.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  Been there, done that, said yes.

• 31:29Pablo Torre?

  So Kristen Miladi. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. I mean, now, I feel like I'm gonna watch this movie. I think we should, uh, we should probably just play it.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  What? No.

• 31:39Pablo Torre?

  It's gonna be the bathtub scene.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  That's not poss-

• 31:41Speaker 06

  Did you email about Google?

• 31:43Speaker 01

  I'll kill you. I'll kill you.

• 31:46Speaker 06

  Google?

• 31:47Speaker 01

  Oh, I hate it!

• 31:50Pablo Torre?

  So her leg is strewn across-

• 31:51Speaker 01

  Stop it, Pablo! What the [bleep]?

• 31:55Pablo Torre?

  They're on a couch, just watching TV.

• 31:56Speaker 06

  That's a very true thought.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  This is what I do every day. She's playing me!

• 32:03Pablo Torre?

  She's me, but she can sing.

• 32:05Speaker 06

  This is your career.

• 32:05Speaker 01

  Hey!

• 32:06Speaker 06

  This is your whole life.

• 32:07Pablo Torre?

  But you can sing too, brother. I've heard you, you can sing.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  I was just kidding.

• 32:10Speaker 06

  You're so great at what you do. You, you, you should pursue this. Maybe.

• 32:16Speaker 06

  Oh, maybe. Chris, you... Why are you getting so worked up about this? Because you're just, you're like this with everything. It's like you're, you're okay with everything just being okay. Why shouldn't I be? Because, okay is like, it's, you know... That's like settling for a seven out of 10. A seven is great. A seven is, it's, that's barely passing. If you get, if you get below a 70 on a test, you fail. You only live once and you should at least try to have everything in your life be a 10. That's crazy. That's not crazy. Why is that crazy?

• 32:49Speaker 05

  Is 68 failing?

• 32:50Speaker 06

  I think... 65, isn't it? I think you're more than a 10. You do? Of course I do.

• 32:59Speaker 06

  If they fucking kiss, I swear to God I'll walk out.

• 33:02Speaker 05

  Shield your eyes.

• 33:02Speaker 06

  I'll fucking walk out, Pablo.

• 33:03Speaker 05

  Shield your eyes.

• 33:04Speaker 06

  I'll fucking walk out. We won't be friends anymore. Pablo!

• 33:09Pablo Torre?

  I don't know what's about to happen! Oh.

• 33:14Speaker 05

  Honestly, that was, this is, this to me is very sweet. The level of actual legitimate anger.

• 33:19Pablo Torre?

  I was about to throw this cap over Katie's eyes to preserve our friendship. I didn't know what was about to happen in that video.

• 33:25Speaker 06

  I didn't finish watching it!

• 33:27Speaker 05

  The control room pressed like a big red button to turn that on. Fade to black!

• 33:31Speaker 06

  I was like, they wouldn't do this to me. They wouldn't do this to me. You were about to do that to me. They, she's...

• 33:37Speaker 05

  Dan's so good!

• 33:38Speaker 06

  Is he? So cute, so young, such a baby. He's a baby.

• 33:42Speaker 05

  I don't think I've seen him do acting stuff. I know that he does.

• 33:46Speaker 06

  He's a Billions. Yeah, that's what everybody knows him from, I thought. I'm sorry, I'm... Why you haven't fucking watched Billions?

• 33:50Pablo Torre?

  He's Jim Billions in Billions.

• 33:53Speaker 06

  He's Mr. Billions. No, he's great. He's, um, he's the best.

• 33:57Pablo Torre?

  That was, that was a high... But by the way, a couple of things. Number one...

• 34:00Speaker 06

  So stressful. Here's your wife cheating on you. Roll it, boy!

• 34:04Pablo Torre?

  Katie, I don't think you've learned anything from our conversation about the ins and outs of what Hollywood is like. Real Neil McDonough energy. Blame, blame my work husband for that.

• 34:14Speaker 06

  I will. I will.

• 34:15Speaker 05

  Yeah, we blame, we blame him.

• 34:16Speaker 06

  I'm gonna, I'm gonna push for a work divorce.

• 34:18Pablo Torre?

  I will also point out that, knowing nothing about this film, other than what I've been Googling quietly while you guys have been saying words, she does appear to be playing the role of Katie Nolan.

• 34:29Speaker 01

  Does she say yes? Do they get married? Did it have to be each other? Um, she's, I just, the whole point of this was, she's so good in The Penguin. Did you watch it?

• 34:39Speaker 05

  I did not watch.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  Have you seen it?

• 34:40Speaker 05

  The Penguin.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  It's okay if you haven't. It's okay. Get to episode four.

• 34:44Speaker 05

  That's right. It all happened.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  She's unreal. And I don't know, I'm not up on all of the lore of, of Batman and all of that. And I still, as a standalone show, I mean, there's a lot of great acting in it. She's unreal.

• 34:59Speaker 05

  Oh, wow. Okay. I'm gonna check it out.

• 35:01Speaker 01

  And she won, and she gave the cutest little speech. And she sings and she can, I should just, she can have him, right? She's probably like married and happy. It's not a

• 35:10Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 35:11Speaker 01

  thing. It's just, you know.

• 35:13Speaker 05

  Do you want to see a scene where they're in bed together?

• 35:15Speaker 01

  No, what? Yes. What has led you to think that yes is the answer?

• 35:18Speaker 05

  I heard, I read that she has a secret husband who does stand up. I wonder who it is?

• 35:24Speaker 01

  We should look into it. Pablo should find out. I'm gonna mark Cuban. I'm just gonna be two. And third of all, if you'll see, he truly loved me the most.

• 35:42Speaker 08

  Are you the kind of sports fan that wants to dig into the story behind the stats? Then join us daily on The Athletic Live, where we'll be live on YouTube to cover all the sports stories you can't stop talking about. On game days, we watch the biggest matchups, live alongside The Athletic's most tapped in reporters. Or come hang on an off night for an inside look at how headlines happen. We want you dropping questions in the chat, and we'll bring answers straight from the source. The Athletic Live is presented by Google Gemini. Subscribe now on YouTube.

• 36:13Speaker 09

  Hi, I'm Jenna Ushkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 36:28Speaker 10

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 36:38Speaker 09

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 36:44Speaker 11

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 36:50Speaker 09

  So join us and hear their stories and more. Because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At The Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At The Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 37:10Speaker 04

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• 37:42Pablo Torre?

  I'm going to admit to just having Googled Dan Soder's sex scene.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  What the [bleep]. After that whole speech about how it really is genuine. And he's like, and I liked the pain.

• 37:51Pablo Torre?

  I just need to know.

• 37:52Speaker 01

  I actually kind of liked seeing her.

• 37:54Pablo Torre?

  I just need to know if it's out there.

• 37:55Speaker 01

  Scared. I actually was looking for a way to get out of this friendship. So if I could just find Dan.

• 38:00Speaker 05

  Off-ramp to knowing you.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  How's your family, who I now know, and I feel genuinely interested in how they? You brought your daughter to the Emmys.

• 38:08Speaker 05

  My daughter came with the Emmys.

• 38:08Speaker 01

  She looked great.

• 38:09Pablo Torre?

  Did she?

• 38:10Speaker 05

  She had a really good time.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  You guys looked like you had a great time.

• 38:12Pablo Torre?

  Appreciate the...

• 38:13Speaker 05

  I think she did. She met a lot of people that I work with. And after pretty much every person that she met, she was like, oh, I think that's my favorite one now.

• 38:21Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 38:22Speaker 05

  Because I work with a lot of delightful people.

• 38:23Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 38:24Speaker 05

  And yeah, she kind of had a really great time. And also, the people at my work are very... They're very willing to center a child. So they really like make her feel like a superstar.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  Not me.

• 38:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, you were meaner.

• 38:40Speaker 01

  Oh, she's a cool kid. I'd center her.

• 38:42Speaker 05

  Um, she had, she had, she had a great time. She recently got braces. That's something that's going on in our house. Did you guys have braces?

• 38:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. I had a tough time in my life, too. I was not looking my best.

• 38:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  I was going through a tough.

• 38:54Speaker 05

  We're gonna want a picture. We're gonna need a picture of that. Yeah, I find that.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  There were, I've reached a point now where I can look at them and not, there was a point in my life where I was like, I don't ever show me me in middle school. I was miserable. I was so sad.

• 39:05Speaker 05

  Did you have the haircut?

• 39:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was actually kind of, but at one point I was growing out the haircut, which I had already prepared for was going to be a tough, that's why I was like, let me get this out of the way in middle school before I get to high school. Um, but it's, it was a tough transitional period of haircut where it just, I had a shaggy, long.

• 39:23Speaker 05

  Dying for these photos.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  And I had, and I had these big braces and I was just, uh, but now I look at that and I see it's the same, I'm in there, you know, it's, it's me. I just was, people weren't very nice to me about what I looked like.

• 39:38Speaker 05

  Were there nicknames?

• 39:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Then I'm sure.

• 39:42Speaker 05

  She's fully crying.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  What's going on today? Is the goal to get me to be upset?

• 39:47Speaker 05

  I also, I had braces and it did not happen at a good, things were already going so badly for me.

• 39:53Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:53Speaker 05

  And then I got braces, but I thought,

• 39:57Speaker 05

  I thought I would be fine with the braces. No one will even know that I have them because I'm getting clear braces. Oh, no. And just to be crystal clear on what that means, it's not Invisalign.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Not crystal clear at all.

• 40:06Speaker 05

  It's braces that are like, you know, vaguely translucent.

• 40:11Speaker 01

  Pretending not to be there.

• 40:11Speaker 05

  It's the Shaquille O'Neal hiding behind a tree of braces. It looks like your teeth also have teeth.

• 40:17Speaker 01

  Teeth.

• 40:19Speaker 05

  It's not cute in any way. So I had, um, I had acne that was absolutely [BLEEP] crushing the game.

• 40:26Speaker 01

  Did you get on Accutane?

• 40:27Speaker 05

  No, I did not.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  Good, that's good.

• 40:29Speaker 05

  And I had braces and I had straight up bubonic eczema. I mean, I had eczema just, just all over the place. So I was kind of, I was, uh.

• 40:38Speaker 01

  You were going through it.

• 40:39Speaker 05

  I was really going through it.

• 40:40Speaker 01

  You were molting.

• 40:41Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  You were molting. You were becoming the beautiful butterfly you are today.

• 40:46Speaker 05

  Once those braces came off and the acne went away and the eczema was still there. Remains.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  Until Sky Rizzi changed her life.

• 40:54Speaker 05

  No, it's Dupixent, baby.

• 40:56Speaker 01

  Sorry, I get it. I call it Sky Rizzi every time.

• 40:58Speaker 05

  No, it's Dupixent. Give me that sponsorship, whoever, whoever you are. Dr. Do, give it to me.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  You wouldn't do a pharmaceutical sponsorship.

• 41:04Speaker 05

  For Dupixent? I absolutely would.

• 41:05Speaker 01

  Well, because you do use it. Yeah, yeah, maybe.

• 41:07Speaker 05

  But I would absolutely do it. I would, I would shoot Dupixent into, I would, I would have, I would come in here like Pinhead. You know that Pinhead from Hellraiser?

• 41:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:15Speaker 05

  With the Dupixents. I love, I love it.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  Wait, I have, can, I want to, can you table the Serena Williams Row conversation?

• 41:23Speaker 05

  Serena Williams Row?

• 41:25Speaker 01

  Oh, because I'd like to have it.

• 41:26Speaker 05

  Because she's doing the Ozempic.

• 41:27Pablo Torre?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  She's doing We Go V.

• 41:29Pablo Torre?

  R O is the.

• 41:31Speaker 01

  I think We Go V.

• 41:32Pablo Torre?

  Is the GLP-1 of choice.

• 41:34Speaker 01

  No, Row is the company that she gets it through. It's like you can also use Row. I believe it used to be called Roman, but then they started appealing to women as well. They dropped man and it just became Row.

• 41:45Pablo Torre?

  Hims is a thing.

• 41:46Speaker 01

  Yes, and you can get.

• 41:47Pablo Torre?

  Provided we don't have them as a sponsor in this episode, let's proceed to discuss.

• 41:50Speaker 01

  Bleep out when he said Hims. Uh, it's like you, allows you to connect with a doctor and they'll give you a prescription without ever having to. It's like that kind of telemedicine that became a thing during COVID from necessity, born from necessity.

• 42:00Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 42:01Speaker 01

  And now that I think they're like trying to figure out how to regulate it or whatever. She did, uh, ads for Row. Her husband sits on the board.

• 42:08Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  And.

• 42:09Pablo Torre?

  Just to Reddit.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  In the ads for Row, she's just pushing the actual product, which made me go like, that's interesting because it's not, she's not being paid by the pharmaceutical company to push the product. She's being paid by the company that gives it to you, but yet the headlines were all like Serena Williams confesses that she too uses GLP-1s. And it just seemed like such a very complex, layered story that you love those. So I wanted to drop that in your lap and have you make sense of it, Jimmy. Because that was tough. I mean, seeing an athlete, nobody, everybody's got body stuff. Body stuff is hard to talk about.

• 42:48Speaker 05

  Not me.

• 42:50Speaker 01

  I didn't mean to laugh.

• 42:51Pablo Torre?

  Cannot relate.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  I didn't mean to laugh right away. Everybody has body stuff and we're, it's like every, I hate talking about it because I don't like the thought of making somebody at home feel any type of way about their own body. But that was weird to me because she is the.

• 43:05Pablo Torre?

  Paragon of female athleticism.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  And, and it, and she said that even she need, she just needed to use it to get the last, the last 15 off. And I don't know, I looked into the medicine of the stuff. It's actually very interesting. They're, they're like currently trying the medicine that was originally used as like a diabetes medicine. And then they approved it for weight loss. And now it's being approved for a lot of other uses. They're actually looking into using it to treat addiction.

• 43:28Pablo Torre?

  Yep.

• 43:28Speaker 01

  Because of its ability to target whatever it is that's causing that. And so in that way, I'm like, this medicine really might be like game changing, life changing, like can help people that really need it in all types of ways. I just don't know why the thought of the woman that speaking about it being Serena Williams makes me go like, well, that she isn't one of the, and I don't wanna.

• 43:54Pablo Torre?

  She shouldn't need it.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  But then, then you're like, you don't want to tell anybody what to do with their own body.

• 43:57Pablo Torre?

  But this is, this is, this is interesting. I mean, because really what you're describing is your reaction not to her decision, but to the presumed pressure that she must have felt to want to make that decision.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  Yes. And also the, the pressure that might, somebody else might feel once to her, she's saying that she wants to de-stigmatize it by coming out and saying like, even I needed it. But in the articles about this, since it's not on behalf of that company, it's on behalf of Ro, they're using language that suggests shame. So they're saying like Serena Williams comes clean about using GLP-1s. And in the article, she's saying that she wants to de-stigmatize it.

• 44:35Pablo Torre?

  We're seeing Serena, we're seeing Serena Williams goes public. We're seeing Serena Williams opens up.

• 44:39Speaker 01

  Admits, opens up. And it's, these are all.

• 44:41Pablo Torre?

  Finally opens up, reveals.

• 44:43Speaker 01

  All things that suggest there should be shame involved while she's saying she's trying to remove shame.

• 44:50Pablo Torre?

  Serena Williams shocked fans with her new slim selfie.

• 44:53Speaker 05

  But I do think there is shame. Like people, the, everyone in Hollywood is like, oh, the 400 pounds I lost? I mean, I've just been walking a lot. It's like, no, you, you haven't. We, we know that you've been on these drugs. So there is actual shame around using it. Everyone's pretending they're not using it. But when suddenly everyone lost 20 pounds at the exact same time, you are like, huh, this diet is either incredible or you're all on these drugs. And they all are. And to me.

• 45:19Pablo Torre?

  I'm not saying that, I'm not arguing against anything you've said.

• 45:22Speaker 01

  No, put them up.

• 45:23Pablo Torre?

  Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely GLP it away, bro.

• 45:26Speaker 05

  Fist up.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  No, put your dukes up, please.

• 45:29Pablo Torre?

  I think you should do, do it. Wegovy, the other one.

• 45:32Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 45:33Pablo Torre?

  Ozempic.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  Ozempic, there's a bunch.

• 45:34Speaker 05

  Pixin it.

• 45:35Pablo Torre?

  Dupixent, Dupixent doesn't do this particular thing.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  I'm saying, I agree with you. I think anyone should do anything that they want.

• 45:41Speaker 05

  That is also my house position.

• 45:42Speaker 01

  Right. I think, what my issue is, is that I understand the mentality of her doing it from her standpoint, but I'm watching it in execution, and it's not de-stigmatizing, it's actually reinforcing the shame that's associated with it by saying that she's coming clean about it. And if she's not de-stigmatizing it, then what she is doing is, I don't know, it's scary to me. I think of being a little girl who, everybody goes through a time where they're like, learning their body and how their body carries weight and how their body handles exercise and responds to certain, whatever it is, and they're going, Serena Williams needs it, I need it, I'm gonna get on it right away.

• 46:22Pablo Torre?

  Is it?

• 46:22Speaker 01

  When really, that person might not have needed it. Maybe that person just needed to, and then, because then I think, now that's a lifetime with a pharmaceutical company. And that, to me, goes, gets really risky. Like pushing that on, I don't know, people look up to Serena Williams. So it's very complex, and again, I wanna be clear, like, I don't, if you use it, I don't judge or anything in any way.

• 46:45Pablo Torre?

  We're gonna clip this very unforgivingly, and so you will get in trouble.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying?

• 46:49Pablo Torre?

  Outside of that.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  Sorry to talk about I don't.

• 46:50Pablo Torre?

  Totally nuanced discussion.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  But it is interesting.

• 46:52Pablo Torre?

  But like, her truly profiting off of this as a spokesperson for the broker of GLP-1s. I think that does change the premise.

• 47:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 47:02Pablo Torre?

  It's not simply, she believes in a product and has said that she uses it, it's the act of selling and promoting via some membrane of separation between the actual product, the drug.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  And how does that sound to you? What does that do in your brain? Because you were just talking about how you would gladly do a Dupixent, you would be paid by Dupixent because you used Dupixent.

• 47:20Pablo Torre?

  I would, I would, I would drink a bucket of Wegovy.

• 47:25Speaker 05

  What I have heard is that, I have heard that it can give you-

• 47:30Pablo Torre?

  I would drink-

• 47:31Speaker 05

  Bring out the bucket.

• 47:32Pablo Torre?

  I would drink a beer snake.

• 47:33Speaker 05

  Do you know those, do you know those hats that you have with the upside down things and the straws going into your mouth? You could load that [BLEEP], you could do a Wegovy in this one and an Ozempic in that one and I would slurp that [BLEEP]. I guess to me, I don't have any, I'm distrustful of pharmaceuticals, companies and their motives all the time.

• 47:54Speaker 05

  I, that's maybe a dangerous thing to say. I don't know of anyone who's been on these things that has suffered like long-term side effects. But that could just be like a yet.

• 48:02Pablo Torre?

  Well, exactly.

• 48:04Speaker 05

  But you could be on Wegovy or Ozempic and die from a disease that no one's even heard of yet. Because it's a, because it's a Wegovy side effect that we haven't tracked. But I know people who have taken it-

• 48:12Pablo Torre?

  Yes, me too.

• 48:13Speaker 05

  And had incredibly bad gastro issues in the, in the like, you know, whatever, the maintenance phase or whatever. Gotten like diarrhea for real. You know what I'm saying?

• 48:23Pablo Torre?

  That's what it says on the box.

• 48:24Speaker 05

  Diarrhea. For real.

• 48:26Pablo Torre?

  In italics.

• 48:27Speaker 05

  Yeah. May cause diarrhea and then a little asterisk. FR FR. For real. FR FR is the sound the diarrhea makes.

• 48:36Speaker 05

  Oy. So I, I'm not, what I'm saying is, I have no judgment of people who take it, which I don't think you're saying either. No.

• 48:43Pablo Torre?

  No, and if, by the way, it does seem to be, as drugs that have been debuted in a dystopian era, as those go, this seems to be wildly effective based on early returns.

• 48:54Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 48:54Pablo Torre?

  With all of the caveats that we're all pointing out of like, who knows what unintended consequences, both sociologically and pharmaceutically.

• 49:03Speaker 05

  And the other thing that will happen, that's already happening is you will, some people can afford this, some people can't. So in many ways, how like, you know, just general health is a marker of your economic status. Like this, it'll be clear, once everybody's on this, like who, there's gonna be a-

• 49:20Pablo Torre?

  Right.

• 49:20Speaker 05

  A very visible line between who can afford it and who can't.

• 49:24Pablo Torre?

  Yes. All of this, you slurping.

• 49:28Pablo Torre?

  GLP ones.

• 49:29Speaker 05

  Hashtag me slurp.

• 49:31Pablo Torre?

  Hashtag me slurp. Um, reminds me of course-

• 49:33Speaker 05

  There's no other way to think of that?

• 49:34Pablo Torre?

  Well, there's, there's one other way. There's one other way I want to think about it.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 49:39Pablo Torre?

  And it's the video I want to show Katie.

• 49:40Speaker 01

  No. God damn it.

• 49:41Speaker 05

  God, f***ing damn it.

• 49:42Speaker 01

  I jokingly pointed at the TV.

• 49:43Speaker 05

  No, but this is your fault, actually.

• 49:45Speaker 01

  I jokingly... No, because he also did the kiss. I said I would be willing to do this so as not to see the f***ing kiss.

• 49:51Speaker 05

  I can't understand. Can't you not show this?

• 49:54Speaker 01

  You know what? I pivoted. I love this clip. He showed me this clip.

• 49:58Speaker 05

  Put me, you know what, actually-

• 49:59Speaker 01

  Oh, show me the part where he puts the c*** in his mouth. I want to see it right now.

• 50:02Speaker 05

  Edit us, and edit me into this clip is what I want.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  Make it me who's doing it. Make it f***ing me who's doing this. I actually would love that.

• 50:11Speaker 05

  I think you shouldn't say that. The internet doesn't-

• 50:13Speaker 01

  I actually f***ing love the way he rubs his face in it, okay? I'm loving this. Oh, good. Run it back from the beginning.

• 50:18Speaker 05

  I, I have tried to be on board with this bit and I am, I can't do it. I can't be here for it. How long does he do this for? What did he win?

• 50:28Speaker 01

  Unless they just cleaned that tub, you are, you've got old hair in your mouth.

• 50:34Speaker 05

  I don't think we watched this much of it before.

• 50:36Speaker 01

  I don't think we did either. I think I got them to turn it off.

• 50:38Speaker 05

  This is unbelievable.

• 50:40Pablo Torre?

  We've rarely gotten this deep into the clip.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  Unbelievable.

• 50:44Speaker 05

  Have either of you seen this movie? Has either of you?

• 50:46Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 50:47Speaker 01

  You know what I just realized? He kinda looks like Walker Buehler.

• 50:49Pablo Torre?

  Mmm.

• 50:50Speaker 01

  You know Walker Buehler, the pitcher?

• 50:52Speaker 05

  I don't. I'm not a baseball guy.

• 50:54Pablo Torre?

  Los Angeles Dodger, Walker Buehler is what you think of.

• 50:56Speaker 01

  No, he was, and then he was on the Red Sox, and now I think he's on the Phillies. Philadelphia Phillies pitcher, Walker Buehler, kinda looks like-

• 51:04Speaker 05

  I kinda gave up on baseball, TBH.

• 51:05Speaker 01

  Well, it's back. It's back in a big way.

• 51:07Speaker 05

  You know I love Shohei Ohtani. That's, that's, that's-

• 51:09Speaker 01

  He just, um-

• 51:10Speaker 05

  Fifty-fifty.

• 51:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, a new fifty-fifty now. It's the fifty-

• 51:14Pablo Torre?

  Thank you for reminding people we're a sports podcast.

• 51:16Speaker 05

  Sports, sports, sports.

• 51:17Speaker 01

  By the way, these are sports. They happen. Watch.

• 51:18Speaker 05

  Hashtag me slurp.

• 51:19Speaker 01

  Well, they might not happen. I feel like you're ending the NBA. Can I be honest? I feel like we're not gonna have an NBA anymore.

• 51:24Speaker 05

  NBA is over.

• 51:24Speaker 01

  I feel like it's just done.

• 51:25Pablo Torre?

  Our investigation continues.

• 51:26Speaker 01

  I know, and I'm like, kind of half-understanding it.

• 51:30Pablo Torre?

  Can we, can we, uh, end with a palate cleanser? What does that mean?

• 51:35Speaker 01

  No, cuz, oh, that's before it got bad, you guys. That's when she was still just the cutest little thing.

• 51:39Pablo Torre?

  Come on, look at her. Look at this. Look at that hair. Young Katie Nolan. This is before, this is before?

• 51:45Speaker 01

  That's in second grade. That was the day I got, that was probably like one of the first days I had that haircut. That was the first day my mom was like, this is what we're gonna do with your hair.

• 51:51Pablo Torre?

  You're wearing a necklace.

• 51:53Speaker 01

  Over my turtleneck.

• 51:53Pablo Torre?

  Over a dark green, forest green turtleneck. Framingham, where are you from?

• 51:57Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, Framingham, Massachusetts.

• 51:59Pablo Torre?

  And look at that, look, look, look at that hair, the bangs, the machio-esque.

• 52:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:04Pablo Torre?

  It is giving.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  Yarmir Yager haircut.

• 52:07Pablo Torre?

  Yarmir Yager. Imagine a second grader walking into the salon being like, I want what he has. And it's a picture of Yarmir Yager. If you could tell, if you could tell young Katie Yarmir Yager Nolan. I want the Mario Lemieux, please.

• 52:24Speaker 01

  If I could tell her what?

• 52:25Pablo Torre?

  That, uh, everything that came out of your mouth in the last five minutes would come out of that mouth, uh, as an adult. I don't know.

• 52:33Speaker 01

  What?

• 52:33Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, that was gross. We're gonna probably, let's just end the episode.

• 52:36Speaker 01

  I'm talking to a kid, Pablo, what the [bleep].

• 52:47Pablo Torre?

  This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out, a Meadowlark Media production. And I'll talk to you next time.

• 53:37Speaker 12

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• 53:45Speaker 06

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• 53:54Speaker 12

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• 53:56Speaker 06

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• 53:59Speaker 01

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• 54:07Speaker 13

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