Sophie Thatcher

We'd say Sophie Thatcher is the future but she's here dominating right now. Bursting onto the scene in YELLOWJACKETS, raising her game with the one-two punch of HERETIC and COMPANION, Sophie is poised for even more success. She joins Josh to talk about it all, including her chronically online childhood, her passion for music and fanfic, and more. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENTS! 6/16 -- Matt Smith in NY -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠ 6/22 -- Millie Bobby Brown -- Tickets here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  You know, when I was younger, I was trying to be older. And now I'm kind of just like, I can be my age because I'm not ashamed of my age. It was always, it was the shame within being young and feeling like I'd lived so many lives. I was like, no, like, you don't see like, I'm 12, but like, I've lived another life before.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins.

• 0:26Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy Sad Confused. Today, one of the best young actors working today. It's Sophie Thatcher, Yellowjackets, her new film with Nicholas Refn, and so much more. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out the podcast. Remember to hit that subscribe button on YouTube, on Spotify, however you're doing it, you know what to do. Today's main event, as I said, Sophie Thatcher, someone that's been absolutely killing it in recent years, companion, heretic, I mentioned Yellowjackets, and a very bright future for her. This is a really fun conversation. Before we get to Sophie, though, always a lot of things going on in the Happy Sad Confused universe, and you know what to do. You have to be a Patreon member to get the early access, patreon.com/happysadconfused. You get discount codes, get autographed

• 1:09Josh Horowitz?

  merch, got bonus materials, so much cool stuff. We do have some cool live events coming up in June at the 92nd Street Y. June 16th, Matt Smith and I are chatting about House of the Dragon, and Doctor Who, and you know I'm gonna ask him Star Wars questions. He's in the next Star Wars movie. That's gonna be a fun one. Tickets are on sale for that. And tickets are now on sale for Millie Bobby Brown. I've been hinting at this for a while. June 24th, Millie Bobby Brown, talking about the new Inola Holmes film, and we might talk about that Stranger Things show a little bit. She's never done the podcast, crazily enough, so I'm really excited about this. I know this one's gonna sell very well, so good, good thing to try and get your tickets early for that

• 1:50Josh Horowitz?

  one. June 24th, Millie Bobby Brown. All the information, as always, is in the bio, but also discount codes, as I said, are on the Patreon. Okay, Sophie Thatcher, what a cool, young, talented actor. She's been on my radar for a few years. I'm sure she's been on all of our radars. Yellowjackets was kind of the show that really made Her pop, I think, on onto all our radars, but to see what she's been doing lately, especially like in the horror space. As I said, that one-two punch last year, Heretic and Companion. And she's just like working with the coolest filmmakers. She just premiered her new film, Her Private Hell in Cannes with Nicholas Winding Refn. That's coming out later this summer. She's about to work with Jennifer Kent, who did The Babadook.

• 2:33Josh Horowitz?

  She's got great taste. This is a fun conversation because as much as it's about her career, it's also just about her awesome taste in music and film and games. I feel like I learned so much from her today. I had a blast talking to her and I know you're gonna have a blast listening to her. Here's me and Sophie. Enjoy. Sophie, we're here. Should we do this?

• 2:56Speaker 00

  Here, let's do it.

• 2:58Josh Horowitz?

  This is how modern friendships are born in a brightly lit podcast studio.

• 3:02Speaker 00

  And it's shut?

• 3:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, we just learned that this podcast studio might be moving. We're not sure.

• 3:07Speaker 00

  We're not sure yet. We'll figure it out.

• 3:10Josh Horowitz?

  It's good to meet you. I've been such a fan of yours. Thank you for taking the time.

• 3:14Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 3:15Josh Horowitz?

  You're killing it lately. It's been, you're on a nice little run. I'm happy to talk to you before you start to, you know, be more discerning and not talk to people like me.

• 3:22Speaker 00

  No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

• 3:26Josh Horowitz?

  How's the summer treating you? You've, I've seen you out and about. You did, you did the Cannes thing. We're gonna talk about the Nick Refn experience.

• 3:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:32Josh Horowitz?

  I imagine you finished Yellowjacket?

• 3:34Speaker 00

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 3:35Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 3:36Speaker 00

  We got, we got two months left of that.

• 3:38Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 3:39Speaker 00

  Two or three months left of that. And it's just been very back and forth. Anytime I have a break with that, because you know, obviously they have the present day cast. And that is like a week of shootings. I'll have these weeks off. And it's really confusing, like being attached to something for so many years and having all this time off and trying to navigate a life outside of that whilst also remaining in that.

• 4:04Josh Horowitz?

  Totally. You want, it's part of your brain. Oh, he's just still there.

• 4:07Speaker 00

  Right there.

• 4:09Speaker 00

  But we're almost done and it's the last season. And I mean, I'm not even, I'm, I think I'm, I think I'm the youngest on the show now. But I can't, it's hard playing like an 18-year-old version of yourself because I was 18 when I started the pilot.

• 4:29Josh Horowitz?

  You're stunted. You're just stuck there. You can't.

• 4:32Speaker 00

  Oh, for sure.

• 4:34Speaker 00

  No, it's like permanent being stunted and people like to say you like stop growing when you get famous, but I feel like this show, not that I stopped growing, but like it's interesting staying in that headspace and staying as a teenager as I'm trying to navigate my twenties and navigate all these other projects as well.

• 4:55Josh Horowitz?

  And I heard you, I heard you in another interview talking about how like when you were young, you were actually like kind of the opposite. You were passing for older like when you were like really young. So you've always been in a weird like time, space continuum.

• 5:07Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. When I was younger, I was just obsessed with, it was like an act. It was something I wanted to portray and see if I could pull off how like old I could be. When I was 12, I was like, let's aim for 18.

• 5:25Josh Horowitz?

  How did that go for you?

• 5:26Speaker 00

  No, I did auditions where they asked like what university I was at and I was like, I'm 13.

• 5:31Josh Horowitz?

  You're like, I'm watching Garfield. I'm watching cartoons.

• 5:34Speaker 00

  It was just like always putting on a different character.

• 5:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Well, that served you well.

• 5:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:40Josh Horowitz?

  Um, bouncing around a bit. So we were talking summer. So you're still in the middle. You're the thick of that. You're in New York. You were telling me some stuff you're up to in New York, but I do want to talk about the Nick Raffin experience, which was, which was Cannes. I don't know if that, was that your first Cannes?

• 5:53Speaker 00

  That was, yeah, yeah. That was my first Cannes. It was surreal. It was exhausting. I would get like three hours of sleep every night and not even just from like going out. It was like all of these events that would start at like 11 or 12 and I would have glam at six or seven in the morning. And I was like, how do people feel good and look good throughout this? I got like a free IV shot.

• 6:21Josh Horowitz?

  Oh.

• 6:22Speaker 00

  And I've never done that before. And I was like, I've never felt so LA in my life. I was like, this is evil, but I love it. And I think it's a hoax as well.

• 6:30Josh Horowitz?

  So you've now gone full LA. You've done the IV.

• 6:33Speaker 00

  Well, it actually just moved.

• 6:35Josh Horowitz?

  Right now to say just a.

• 6:37Speaker 00

  I just moved out of LA. I spent three years there. I was in Silver Lake and then I was in Nichols Canyon.

• 6:42Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, wait, where's home now?

• 6:44Speaker 00

  Um, I just bought some place, um, upstate New York.

• 6:49Josh Horowitz?

  Nice.

• 6:50Speaker 00

  So it's really nice to be here, um, in this city and like spend time back and forth because you truly get best of both worlds. Like I have a country home and then.

• 6:59Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing.

• 7:00Speaker 00

  I can come here. Um, but LA, I find it's interesting because I was there last week and I think this is a very common feeling, but as soon as you move out of a place, I mean, you want what you can't have. But I went back and I was just working on music and I was like, God damn it's like, it's nice here.

• 7:20Josh Horowitz?

  Nostalgic for your home that.

• 7:21Speaker 00

  Nostalgic for like, this is like last two weeks ago.

• 7:27Speaker 00

  But that's just life.

• 7:28Josh Horowitz?

  You're gonna spend plenty of time there, whether you want to or not.

• 7:31Speaker 00

  And it was also, I can't drive, so it was a thing where.

• 7:33Josh Horowitz?

  Sophie, I can't drive. I never went to drive and I'm twice your age.

• 7:37Speaker 00

  So.

• 7:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 7:38Speaker 00

  You live here in the city.

• 7:39Josh Horowitz?

  Born and raised New Yorker, never had to.

• 7:41Speaker 00

  That is the perfect excuse. I don't have the same excuses here.

• 7:44Josh Horowitz?

  You're fine.

• 7:45Speaker 00

  I'm like, I was a child actor.

• 7:48Josh Horowitz?

  I have no real skills.

• 7:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know. I am incompetent.

• 7:52Josh Horowitz?

  But you can pretend to do anything. More important than actually doing anything is pretending.

• 7:59Josh Horowitz?

  Will you drive? Have you ever taken a driving like lessons? Nothing, nothing?

• 8:04Speaker 00

  No.

• 8:04Josh Horowitz?

  No interest?

• 8:04Speaker 00

  And I think the more I wait, the more built up anxiety. Um, so.

• 8:10Josh Horowitz?

  I can attest to this. I'm the ghost of Christmas future, Sophie. You're right. Yes, that's true.

• 8:16Speaker 00

  So next week, uh, I have a couple of days off of yellow jackets and I'm gonna get in my, uh, I have a, I just got a car, um, with my partner and got a Subaru, which is the most like upstate.

• 8:35Speaker 00

  For really.

• 8:36Josh Horowitz?

  Gone from 25 to 40 overnight, basically.

• 8:40Speaker 00

  Like I'm cheated. Um, so we're gonna drive around that Subaru and.

• 8:46Speaker 00

  Who knows, in the mountains.

• 8:48Josh Horowitz?

  Lovely.

• 8:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, maybe.

• 8:49Josh Horowitz?

  You cracked the code. Um, okay, so wait, so back step back to Cannes because like we all have those images in our mind if we've grown up watching the coverage, et cetera. I've been lucky enough to go a couple of times on the flip side, obviously a different kind of experience than you had, but like the press conferences are insane, walking up the steps is crazy. Yeah, was it? Yeah, all insane?

• 9:08Speaker 00

  No, I mean, all good scary.

• 9:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 9:10Speaker 00

  Um. It was raining for our, um, premiere as we were going up the steps and it felt so goddamn epic. Rihanna was playing and they just only played, uh, rain songs.

• 9:26Josh Horowitz?

  Perfect.

• 9:26Speaker 00

  So it was under my own umbrella. And I was like looking back, like trying to be like mewing. Uh, and it was just so funny. I was like, this isn't real life. And I just kind of had that in my head where I was like this cherished, this, this isn't real life.

• 9:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 9:42Speaker 00

  Um, what else?

• 9:44Josh Horowitz?

  And to be with-

• 9:45Speaker 00

  What are some other rain songs? No, because they played all the classics.

• 9:49Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, really?

• 9:50Speaker 00

  It's raining, man.

• 9:51Josh Horowitz?

  Did they?

• 9:52Speaker 00

  Hallelujah.

• 9:54Josh Horowitz?

  That's always playing in your head, though. That's just-

• 9:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, I'm like, that's already there. But it was just like, I was like, I'm at Cannes and they're doing this? This is insane.

• 10:03Josh Horowitz?

  And to be there with Nick.

• 10:04Speaker 00

  And with Nick where he was like, oh, like that's, and we all, we have to follow him. What was he doing? He was doing the like, some kind of pose that we all kept following and I was like halfway committing and I saw on the photos that I, I wish I fully committed because I was still trying to like.

• 10:22Josh Horowitz?

  Do your posing?

• 10:24Speaker 00

  It's hard. It's hard. It's a hard life.

• 10:26Josh Horowitz?

  Um, I haven't had, since I wasn't there, I haven't seen the film. It sounds bananas, but I always expected this movie to be bananas in the best possible way.

• 10:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's always.

• 10:34Josh Horowitz?

  You know, it's going to divide people. That's what you want in a Nick Raffin movie. Come on, let's do it. Um, but you've spoken glowingly about like the collaboration. This is, um, Her Private Hell, which is coming out later this summer, we should say.

• 10:46Josh Horowitz?

  That you loved like the collaborative nature that it really like was a top tier experience?

• 10:50Speaker 00

  It really was so collaborative and I've never had that and I feel like it really raised the bar for me for working with filmmakers because it made me feel like an actual artist and not just, you know, some kind of part of the machine to get it going, to sell things. It felt like, even watching it, I felt like we were making it for ourselves. And I don't mean for that to be like separating people, but it lies so specifically within my taste, within, you know, seventies Italian horror and everything's so heightened. And it's a very specific tone that I think a lot of people won't understand that don't come from that.

• 11:34Josh Horowitz?

  The reference points that they can connect with.

• 11:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, which is like in it of itself is, that's its own thing.

• 11:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:40Speaker 00

  It's completely separate and I understand not getting that.

• 11:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:43Speaker 00

  But to me, I'm like, God, it hit some kind of sweet spot and watching it. For me, it really was watching the score, Pino Di Nagio. We had been talking on set for so long. We would play the Don't Look Now soundtrack, the Laura song.

• 12:00Speaker 00

  And it's just the piano part and then it goes into this beautiful orchestration. And we'd play that every day to get into character. And then he would play the Brindie Palmer Dress to Kill soundtrack, which is just like, God, like.

• 12:15Josh Horowitz?

  It's like pretty operatic or what is it?

• 12:17Speaker 00

  It is very operatic and it's very, um, it's like soapy. It's very.

• 12:24Josh Horowitz?

  Right. I totally, I remember it now. Yes.

• 12:25Speaker 00

  Beautiful. It's like works so perfectly because it's so on purpose.

• 12:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 12:31Speaker 00

  So we would listen to that every day.

• 12:35Speaker 00

  And it was just kind of a tone that we had set by just listening to it because music is everything. And I think because me and Nick both believe that music is everything, that's why we got along.

• 12:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 12:45Speaker 00

  And that's how we, like our first meetings were just talking about like punk music and talking about, I mean, when he texts me, it's just like sending me like rock videos and being like, duh, this video like they're so. Cool. It's all just like videos of like David Bowie or.

• 13:03Josh Horowitz?

  He's speaking your language. This is, this is the kind of references I want.

• 13:05Speaker 00

  It is and it doesn't even, yeah, I know. And it doesn't have to be. Um, I feel like we had a very good understanding of each other through references. And I know that references can feel

• 13:19Speaker 00

  sometimes shallow, but it didn't. For me, it felt like it was all encompassing and like taking into a whole new world.

• 13:26Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it's funny. You mentioned De Palma. I grew up with De Palma and like he feels like

• 13:29Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:30Josh Horowitz?

  Kind of an air to, to that aesthetic, that kind of like, again, taking big swings.

• 13:35Speaker 00

  Taking big swings where it's like, hmm, but all like very, and it's not just purely aesthetically driven. It's like, there's real emotionality behind it.

• 13:48Speaker 00

  That I think people sometimes dismiss through, through this style and the tone.

• 13:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, the style can overwhelm their senses.

• 13:54Speaker 00

  The style overwhelms the senses and then you're just taking in the aesthetics and you're not.

• 13:59Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 14:00Speaker 00

  It's like a, it's a, it's a visceral experience for sure, which is why it's like to have a film like this now. God, imagining people watching on their phones is really depressing. It's like, no, I mean, no, you can't.

• 14:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 14:15Speaker 00

  You just can't do it.

• 14:18Josh Horowitz?

  We'll be right back with more Happy Sad Confused.

• 14:24Speaker 03

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• 16:11Josh Horowitz?

  So I gotta say, this reaches the broader point I was gonna bring up early on is, as I start to like, I mean, I have been following your career, but I was reading more and more about you. I was a little intimidated that I feel like you're half my age and you have like twice as good taste as me.

• 16:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, shut up.

• 16:25Josh Horowitz?

  You really, you've got, you've... I don't know where the influences came from. I kind of wanna like, get a sense of like, I know you have some older siblings. I don't know if you kind of found your own path. Like, how did you develop the aesthetics that you were drawn to? Like, what, how did we get here, Sophie, in a nutshell?

• 16:44Speaker 00

  YouTube, growing up, the internet.

• 16:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. You say you were chronically online, but every kid's chronically online.

• 16:50Speaker 00

  No, but I was, I was like locked myself in the basement after school. Just like on the computer for hours and hours and hours, just trying to research. And I'm still like that.

• 17:02Speaker 00

  But I try to like view it in like a positive sense where it's like, even if I'm on YouTube or on Discogs or Bandcamp trying to search for music, it's like I'm searching for music to inspire me and to show other people. Like, I'm very against gatekeeping. I think that's...

• 17:25Speaker 00

  Hey, it's just not, I think if something is interesting, why not?

• 17:30Josh Horowitz?

  Artists to be shared, yeah.

• 17:31Speaker 00

  Why not spread it? And if it's really underground, then why not? But like even more the reason.

• 17:35Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 17:35Speaker 00

  It's not yours. You didn't make the music. I hate when people feel ownership over something that's really underground and they're like, "I discovered that." No, it's like,

• 17:43Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 17:44Speaker 00

  Spread it if you find it interesting.

• 17:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. So give me a sense of different phases growing up. Like, were like, did they?

• 17:50Speaker 00

  Lordy, that's a good question though.

• 17:52Josh Horowitz?

  How much time do I have?

• 17:52Speaker 00

  Because I went through so many phases. I'll start from the beginning.

• 17:56Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 17:57Speaker 00

  Um, musical theater. It was musical theater. I was a little Broadway kid. I was, I was gonna be a big star. Um, and that was my obsession. I was gonna be, I had this shirt that said, um, "Give me jazz hands." A bunch of stars and I wore like squirrels. This was my like quirked out Zooey Deschanel phase where I was also doing musical theater, but was like, "I'm gonna tap dance randomly." And da, da, da, da. And I still tap dance a lot. I love tap dancing. So this was middle school.

• 18:27Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 18:27Speaker 00

  And then I discovered Radiohead. And I was like, "Oh, there's darkness in me." And I started listening to OK Computer and I was like, "Oh my God, there's this whole other side to me. Oh my God, I'm gonna use this for my acting." And it actually kind of helped. Of course it helped. Music helps with everything.

• 18:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 18:44Speaker 00

  Um, so I discovered that. And then me and my sister started making zombie movies. And this was us going darker into everything. And we were making zombie movies and I was starting to kind of like, I think I got a Tumblr around like thirteen, thirteen.

• 18:59Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 19:00Speaker 00

  And I was like reblogging a lot of like Christine F.

• 19:06Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 19:07Speaker 00

  Which is fucked up. Um, it's a, it's amazing movie, but like really dark. Um, and then I created a shoegaze Tumblr where I was like, everything is...

• 19:19Speaker 00

  I felt very like bleak and it was just like peak like I had it comb over.

• 19:23Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 19:24Speaker 00

  Um, I wore my Joy Division shirt every day. I played piano a lot and then I had my omni chord and I started making music. Um, and this is early high school. Shoe guys was kind of like every like my buddy Valentine was every day blasting. Um, in my headphones when I was walking through school. It was it, I haven't really, it's hard for me to listen to it now because it's so high school and it's so of that.

• 19:52Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 19:52Speaker 00

  Time for me. Um, but then Elliot Smith always I have a.

• 19:57Josh Horowitz?

  Tattoo I know, right?

• 20:01Speaker 00

  Good job.

• 20:03Josh Horowitz?

  Is that the only one? Is that the only? Oh, no, you have a couple.

• 20:05Speaker 00

  No, I have this and then I have, this is just something I wanted. It's a locket. I don't know what it means. It doesn't mean anything. Um, Elliot Smith was like the phase always, always there in my life.

• 20:19Josh Horowitz?

  At what age did you get the tattoo, the first tattoo?

• 20:22Speaker 00

  Seventeen.

• 20:23Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 20:23Speaker 00

  Eighteen. Um. Which is like, makes sense to get Elliot to.

• 20:29Josh Horowitz?

  Appropriate, feels right.

• 20:32Speaker 00

  Um.

• 20:33Josh Horowitz?

  So, I mean, you're, you're growing up though. I mean, you have, you have a few siblings. You have a twin, we should say.

• 20:37Speaker 00

  Twin. Yeah, and she lives with me now.

• 20:38Josh Horowitz?

  Is that right?

• 20:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, it's been really fun. We've just been like making music nonstop and.

• 20:43Josh Horowitz?

  How do I know for a fact this is Sophie and this is not?

• 20:46Speaker 00

  This is not, we're so different. We are really so different and I can't quite describe it, but I think because we grew up in different circumstances and I've been, you know, forced to, not forced.

• 20:58Josh Horowitz?

  Let's be clear.

• 20:58Speaker 00

  Not forced, but like I'm around people a lot and I grew up really introverted, but it has broken me out of my shell.

• 21:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 21:05Speaker 00

  And I think she makes claimations and that's such a. You know.

• 21:10Josh Horowitz?

  You can be on your own and just sort of do your.

• 21:11Speaker 00

  Oh, and just live in that, the house for years.

• 21:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 21:15Speaker 00

  Um, so I think that's the difference between us, but it's been nice. I've just been working on music. And she'll be working on her masks. And then we'll just like go back and it feels like a crazy like artist environment right now. And it's really nice.

• 21:30Josh Horowitz?

  So it is interesting the way you describe it because like you're so it sounds like you're so in your own head a lot as a kid. But you also have this need, want to perform.

• 21:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:40Josh Horowitz?

  And be on a stage.

• 21:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:42Josh Horowitz?

  It's like two ginormously different things.

• 21:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that like playing characters was the escape.

• 21:48Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 21:48Speaker 00

  And even when I was younger, I was obsessed with writing and wrote, oh my God. I'm so lucky that because I'm so young, I can go back my Google Docs from like two thousand twelve when I was twelve and I was like this wizard. I like wrote like wizard. I wrote Howells Moving Castle fan fiction.

• 22:06Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 22:07Speaker 00

  Um, all this like crazy shit that I can look back on, just like go through a trip down memory lane to have that so accessible.

• 22:14Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 22:15Speaker 00

  Is a blessing, but also like, whoa.

• 22:18Josh Horowitz?

  Is all like the, what about the stuff you did online, the tumblers and stuff? Is that all been like, is that out there? Does it exist?

• 22:23Speaker 00

  It's still there. I still. I think it's just soapy tea now. I changed it. You can go back. It's all just like. It's just shoegays. It's all just music. And then I was like gradually kind of changing and like developing my taste through that and what I actually like. But I do kind of. I hate to like give Tumblr that credit because it is just like. You know, it's recycling a lot of stuff, but it really, it helped.

• 22:55Josh Horowitz?

  So what's the relationship become though with me like chronically online? Would you become like the subject of stuff like, like online, like?

• 23:02Speaker 00

  Every, yeah, I just, I click. Not interested.

• 23:06Josh Horowitz?

  You're trying to purify your algorithm?

• 23:09Speaker 00

  You know, I'm like, the algorithm is fucked. Even when my friends send me stuff, because I know that I'm in some memes or like. And I'm aware of it, but it's so, so incredibly disconnected from.

• 23:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 23:22Speaker 00

  Who I actually am. Um. And.

• 23:27Speaker 00

  I think because I'm able to disconnect, that makes me sane.

• 23:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 23:32Speaker 00

  Um.

• 23:33Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it would be worrisome if you were like, yeah, I'm in it and I'm reading everything about me.

• 23:36Speaker 00

  Well, no, no, no, I go through phases. I go through phases where it's like, and everybody does.

• 23:41Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 23:42Speaker 00

  Um, where, I mean, I've said this before, but when Yellowjackets came out, I was on Reddit. And would spend like hours on Reddit and everyone was just like, her wig, it's clearly a wig. And I was like, what about my acting? It's so good.

• 23:59Josh Horowitz?

  But that must be, in particular, Yellowjackets, which is such like a.

• 24:02Speaker 00

  Oh, no, people want opinions. And it's like, it is why it's an interesting show. It's like asking for people to participate and I want to be a part of projects that ask people to engage.

• 24:12Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 24:13Speaker 00

  Um, but then sometimes it it feels personal, even though the wig was, you know, it's like, that's so random and it's, people just want to say something to say something a lot of the time.

• 24:26Josh Horowitz?

  Even when like, yeah, I mean, there are aspects where it's like, you know, you're being shipped. And you probably shipped others when you were a kid, I would imagine.

• 24:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, shipped.

• 24:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 24:35Speaker 00

  Oh, shipped, like.

• 24:37Josh Horowitz?

  Like the couples, you know, like that they want to see manifested.

• 24:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm like, what if? I don't know. There's a lot of like Yellowjackets to Stranger Things, like the alt kids in Stranger Things, they're always like.

• 24:48Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 24:48Speaker 00

  I see the fan edits of that. Um.

• 24:53Speaker 00

  I was never really like a, I would like write fanfiction, but it was always, it was always about Miyazaki. Or my so-called life.

• 25:02Josh Horowitz?

  I saw.

• 25:03Speaker 00

  I would cosplay, which is so, I was just so obsessed with Claire Danes and, aren't we all? Um, Angela Chase. And would write these.

• 25:13Josh Horowitz?

  Your spirit animal as a character, that was you?

• 25:15Speaker 00

  That was me. Yeah, yeah. I dyed my hair red when I was 12, 13. Um. The like introspective and I would like steal, I would look up on IMDb her quotes and say them out loud in the mirror. And then steal them, copy and paste them into these like fanfiction forums and people would be like.

• 25:36Speaker 00

  Geniusness. It's a well-written show. Everyone should watch it.

• 25:40Josh Horowitz?

  It's so funny because like, again, I'm a bit older than you. Like, I literally am like, Claudine Davis was a freshman in my same high school when I was a senior. So like, she's a contemporary.

• 25:49Speaker 00

  That's crazy.

• 25:50Josh Horowitz?

  And I remember, obviously, what that show was at the time.

• 25:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, what, like, to you, it was probably so different.

• 25:55Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it was hu- I mean, no, it was also- it was huge because also there was less of that. Like, I mean-

• 26:00Speaker 00

  It was authentic. It was real.

• 26:01Josh Horowitz?

  Authentic and that was very unique at the time.

• 26:04Speaker 00

  Ricky was the first gay character, openly gay character on television. Just crazy.

• 26:09Josh Horowitz?

  Jordan Catalano's influ- like, influential generation.

• 26:13Speaker 00

  I think I've realized that I've grown up because I like Brian Krakow and not Jordan Catalano. I'm like-

• 26:20Josh Horowitz?

  This is a marker. This is a good-

• 26:21Speaker 00

  This is a marker. I'm like, I am maturing.

• 26:23Josh Horowitz?

  It's the same, what's the Felicity thing? I don't know if you ever watched Felicity. It's like Noel and Ben.

• 26:27Speaker 00

  I did, I did. Yes, yes.

• 26:28Josh Horowitz?

  It's the same kind of differentiating.

• 26:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, you go back to it and you're like, oh, my God, I can see clearly now.

• 26:35Josh Horowitz?

  Does your taste now, like, run, obviously, you've got highbrow. Do you got lowbrow too? Like, is it run gamut?

• 26:42Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 26:42Josh Horowitz?

  What's an example of lowbrow?

• 26:44Speaker 00

  I love lowbrow. I mean, I've been through phases, especially while I'm shooting TV. I can only watch reality TV. 90 Day Fiance has taken over much of my life. And I'm not regretful of it because you get to learn a lot about different cultures and different countries. And, you know, it's like crazy circumstances. Um, God, I really want to watch Below Deck. That's what everyone keeps saying to me.

• 27:10Josh Horowitz?

  I haven't, but I know people are obsessed, yeah.

• 27:11Speaker 00

  People are obsessed.

• 27:12Josh Horowitz?

  Summer House, everyone's talking. They're talking about the Summer House now.

• 27:15Speaker 00

  Summer House, what's that? That's like-

• 27:16Josh Horowitz?

  It's another, it's another reality, I know.

• 27:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, I just find watching actors while I'm acting, I'm like, ugh.

• 27:24Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 27:25Speaker 00

  I need to disconnect, even if it's reality TV and people are still acting and it's all meta. It's like-

• 27:30Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 27:31Speaker 00

  It's a different kind of disconnect, where it's like, I can't relate to that set. It's a different set life, where I'm like-

• 27:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 27:39Speaker 00

  I'm not thinking about how everything is so technical, because it's so hard to get out of my head when I'm watching TV while I'm doing TV. Um, but-

• 27:50Speaker 00

  What I mean, B movies too. I love.

• 27:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. What would constitute a B movie? Like modern B movies or like old school?

• 27:56Speaker 00

  What are, what are modern? There's nothing like, like what is that? What does that mean?

• 28:00Josh Horowitz?

  That's a good question. Yeah, I don't even know.

• 28:02Speaker 00

  Everything's DIY. It's like, would a modern B movie be on your phone?

• 28:06Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 28:06Speaker 00

  What does that mean? Um, modern, my favorite, I always reference this on Hell Comes to Frog Town.

• 28:15Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know. Educate. See, again, you've better, you're more sophisticated than me.

• 28:19Speaker 00

  It's a, if you look up photos of that, it's, I'm obsessed with like crazy, bad masks.

• 28:24Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 28:25Speaker 00

  Um, and really just when it's really like as tacky as possible. This isn't a B movie, but um, Peter Jackson's Meet the Feebles is like adjacent to that. And anything within that realm is like,

• 28:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 28:38Speaker 00

  God, that's my sweet spot. It's, there's like a heartfelt quality to it because you know that everyone is pouring their blood, sweat and soul into it for shit product, but not for Meet the Feebles. Meet the Feebles is genius.

• 28:53Josh Horowitz?

  Well, that's why like one of my all time favorite films is Ed Wood, like, which is like this, like ode to like people that were so devoted to the craft that they didn't, they weren't capable of making great art, but they were just trying. They loved it.

• 29:06Speaker 00

  Everything into it and you feel it. And that's what, you know, it's so, so incredibly charming when I find that like people are doing practical effects.

• 29:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 29:18Speaker 00

  It's just like an easier way to immerse yourself. Um, and I hope we can lean back into that, but I doubt that.

• 29:25Josh Horowitz?

  I just, I just saw a movie this morning with a ton of prosthetics. I saw, I mean, it's a ginormous movie, but it's like the Supergirl movie. Like I will say, it's a lot of prosthetics. I did enjoy it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 29:35Speaker 00

  Sweet.

• 29:36Josh Horowitz?

  Um.

• 29:37Speaker 00

  Oh, that's sick.

• 29:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 29:39Speaker 00

  And you can tell it feels different.

• 29:41Josh Horowitz?

  Hundred percent.

• 29:42Speaker 00

  Even if it looks bad, it's like, there's like a nostalgia to it as well.

• 29:47Josh Horowitz?

  You're destined for a Guillermo moment at some point, right? It's gonna, it's gonna happen.

• 29:51Speaker 00

  One of the first, um, Pan's Labyrinth scored me. I walked in and I was seven years old to the, this scene.

• 30:00Josh Horowitz?

  That's a lot. Yeah. That's a lot for a thirty year old.

• 30:03Speaker 00

  But then like, it like scarred me in such a way. And then I, it was like, I learned. I was obsessed with Waltzes and then I learned the Pan's Labyrinth theme song on piano and I would just play it over and over, being scarred, thinking about that and so tortured.

• 30:21Josh Horowitz?

  Explains a lot.

• 30:23Speaker 00

  But god, that movie's genius. I recently rewatched it and was like, this holds up so well.

• 30:31Josh Horowitz?

  That segues into, I always like talking to people about like the other films they saw a little bit too young that scarred them. So Pan's Labyrinth is one. What's, what are any other examples of a movie you're like, oh, in retrospect, why was I watching this at that age? That jump out?

• 30:44Speaker 00

  Um, well, definitely so many. Twenty Days Later, which I bring up a lot because I was like 12 when I watched that.

• 30:50Josh Horowitz?

  That spawned the zombie movies?

• 30:51Speaker 00

  Of course. Mine is the best of the best.

• 30:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 30:57Speaker 00

  I don't know. I had like, I had like, I was very scared of, everyone watches Goblet of Fire, Harry Potter, but the, something about the like offness within the CGI of the mermaids. Oh my god, I still look at it. I'm like, because the CGI is so bad, there's this uncanny element to it that I captured as a kid that I was like, oh, something's wrong.

• 31:21Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know what is, but there's something off.

• 31:23Speaker 00

  CGI is so bad, what the hell?

• 31:26Speaker 00

  And I, that would scar me and my older sister would torment me and just like point her phone to me and it was just the mermaid and that, um, I think I have a thing for mermaids. Mermen for Cabin in the Woods.

• 31:41Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 31:41Speaker 00

  You know, that last set.

• 31:42Josh Horowitz?

  I love that. Yeah.

• 31:43Speaker 00

  And the, the merman, merman.

• 31:46Josh Horowitz?

  Merman, yeah.

• 31:47Speaker 00

  He's like flopping and I, I watched that, that was like 14 or something and it was horrifying.

• 31:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 31:55Speaker 00

  I think I'm discovering something right now.

• 31:56Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, we're all discovering at the same time together. Um, what about, okay, oh my God, we could, we could only, we could talk just about reference points, but we'll talk about career stuff too.

• 32:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm like, there's that.

• 32:09Josh Horowitz?

  But I do, before we get into your actual work, um, gaming also, you're a huge, were, are a huge gamer?

• 32:16Speaker 00

  I'm not a good gamer.

• 32:17Josh Horowitz?

  What does that mean? You don't have to be like, who's testing you?

• 32:21Speaker 00

  Um, it like takes me a really long time and I cheat through everything, but you have to cheat.

• 32:26Josh Horowitz?

  It's okay.

• 32:27Speaker 00

  You have to watch the walkthroughs.

• 32:28Josh Horowitz?

  Um, what's the, what's the biggest time suck game of your illustrious career?

• 32:34Speaker 00

  Sims, Sims without a doubt. I was talking about that earlier today, cause I had the talk with Hideo Kojima and doing a talk with him was just so, I was like, you're a god. You're a god to us.

• 32:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 32:46Speaker 00

  Anything I say, I'm scared.

• 32:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 32:48Speaker 00

  Um, but he's so charming. Um, that, I mean, Silent Hill 2, I think has the most heart for me. Silent Hill 2, um, there's a bunch of games that I want to play. I have a PS2, PS3, PS4, PS5, a Wii. I think my Xbox is broken. I have like two, three different sets of an Oculus.

• 33:12Josh Horowitz?

  You're equipped, you've got options.

• 33:14Speaker 00

  Like three stretches.

• 33:15Josh Horowitz?

  It's good to have backups, just in case.

• 33:17Speaker 00

  The thing is I don't game that much. I don't anymore.

• 33:19Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 33:20Speaker 00

  But it used to be such a huge part of my childhood that just having it in my house and seeing it, I'm like.

• 33:25Josh Horowitz?

  It's comfort, yeah, safe place.

• 33:26Speaker 00

  If I'm ever going through a low point, I'm just gonna, um, immerse myself into this.

• 33:30Josh Horowitz?

  Your 14 gaming consoles. It's now, I mean, that's the new IP, as you well know. It's like, it's horror, but also it is like now Hollywood has figured out, oh, gaming is bigger than Hollywood.

• 33:44Speaker 00

  Oh yeah, I mean, Ella doing the Fallout.

• 33:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 33:47Speaker 00

  Um, I brought her to my apartment the first season, cause I was, I tried, well, I had a night where I brought all the Yellow Jackets girls over and I was like, I'm gonna create every one of you on Sims. It took hours and people got so bored. Because I was trying to get them right.

• 34:03Josh Horowitz?

  We have a call time in an hour, Sophie.

• 34:05Speaker 00

  I know, I was like, Sophie, what are you doing? I was like, no, gotta get your nose right. And I did it. And then I tried to create Ellen Fallout, and that was her first introduction. And she was like, turn it off, it's scary graphics. And I was like, that's fair. It is like that uncanny, specifically Fallout New Vegas has that like, where it's like kind of realistic, but not, it's of that era.

• 34:31Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 34:32Speaker 00

  Where it's like, it's just uncanny, and then Fallout 3 is like, really good graphics. Especially, I remember when that came out, I was like, these are the best graphics of all time.

• 34:41Josh Horowitz?

  I'm excited that that like, you know, again, I sound old when I say this, but like the new generation of filmmakers, like people like Zach Craig are doing Resident Evil. It's like, oh yeah, let the-

• 34:50Speaker 00

  Oh my god, Resident Evil is, yeah.

• 34:52Josh Horowitz?

  Let them do their spin on-

• 34:55Speaker 00

  And it can be so, I mean, video games are so incredibly cinematic, and Hideo Kojima is the greatest example of that. Where he's using also like, the best of the best actors, and the best of the best actors want to work with him, and I want to work with him too.

• 35:10Speaker 00

  More Happy Sad Confused coming up.

• 35:15Speaker 05

  Most writers have written really terrible stories. The only thing different about me is that I kept them all. And on my brand new show, Character Development, I'm going to force my very talented actor friends to read them with me. There are teen slashers where every character sounds edgy as hell. There's sci-fi giants that read just a little bit too much like giant penises. And there's a murderer who enjoys musical theater for some reason. Listen to Character Development, a comedy podcast, on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 35:47Speaker 06

  What if the imaginary world you created as a child became real and wanted you back? That's the mystery at the heart of sagas of sundry Darkling Gate. A cinematic Call of Cthulhu actual play series where Jane Austen's social drama collides with cosmic horror.

• 36:05Speaker 07

  The year is 1816, the year without a summer. Three siblings and their companion are drawn to a gloomy country estate beside an ancient forest in the English countryside.

• 36:15Speaker 06

  In its darkened halls, memories of the- Wonderful Wonderland created by their dead brother begin manifesting in increasingly terrifying ways.

• 36:23Speaker 03

  Expect ballroom courtships, dangerous family secrets, strange relics, occult rituals, and horrors no human mind was ever meant to comprehend. If you like Gothic mysteries, Regency romance, immersive role playing, horror that follows you long after the story ends, step through the Darkling Gate.

• 36:44Speaker 06

  Watch on Geek and Sundry's YouTube channel or listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.

• 37:01Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so you're also an actor, we should mention. You acted in films and TV.

• 37:04Speaker 00

  I'm not just like into pop culture nerdy stuff.

• 37:08Josh Horowitz?

  Um, this, this, uh, this acting gig's going pretty well. Um, talk to me a little bit about the, the early days of kind of when you went pro, as it were. You're doing a lot of theater early on.

• 37:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:17Josh Horowitz?

  But what do you remember? Like, were you, what kind of auditions were you going up for early? Were you typecast right from the start? Like, what do you remember?

• 37:25Speaker 00

  It took me a while to figure out my typecasting and now I'm real in it. Um, kidding. Um, when I was younger, I was like trying to fit myself into, I was the musical theater girl that wore the jazz hand shirts and tap dance and was, you know, listening to really like dark music, but you know, like balancing all these things. And I would always go on these Disney auditions. Um, and I remember getting a callback for one of them and I lied to everyone in my sixth grade class being like, I'm gonna be on Disney Channel, you guys.

• 38:00Josh Horowitz?

  Guys.

• 38:00Speaker 00

  Cause I wanted to be popular and I was popular for two days and then they realized, they kept asking and I was like, I have nothing to give you. I don't know. And they saw.

• 38:07Josh Horowitz?

  It's illegal. It's really, it's, it's.

• 38:09Speaker 00

  I can't, I signed a NDA. I can't tell you. So, but that, it was just like feeling really out of place and like I was always too off. And then I think. Doing prospects was like a good because I was like, I mean, I've always kind of played outcasts. And they saw that it wasn't like a put on. It was like, oh, finally I can like play myself or even lean into the the offness of everything.

• 38:40Josh Horowitz?

  What do you remember of like hitting those first marks, being in front of a camera of a professional production?

• 38:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, not even joking, like Chicago Med and Chicago PD. I was like, I don't think I can deliver lines in front of camera. It was so scary because I grew up in theater and having to do one line and having to prove yourself within that two seconds. Specifically within procedural TV. And I still find that when I have these one liners, even with the L jackets, the other day I was like, I can't do it. I have one, like, I need a scene to get into it.

• 39:13Josh Horowitz?

  Interesting.

• 39:14Speaker 00

  It feels like commercial act. It feels like not real.

• 39:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 39:20Speaker 00

  So that I, yeah, my heart was just like racing and it's like the first couple of days in prospect, I was like, I don't think I can do it. And then I did it and it just became so natural that I was like.

• 39:36Speaker 00

  It's not more exciting than theater. I mean, I haven't done theater in so long and I think it would be so interesting to go back with this experience now.

• 39:43Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 39:43Speaker 00

  I think I've kind of regressed in ways within technicality.

• 39:51Speaker 00

  I need to work on my diction. I need to not no more vocal fry.

• 39:57Speaker 00

  But I would, I would love to go back to that, but it was so, it was like a block when I was first on screen. It was like, I couldn't connect. The camera was like the devil. And now it's this weird thing now too, where sometimes I'll go to set. Now, and I'll be anxious for a bit and then I'll come to my close up and I'll be like, oh, I can breathe now because I'm in another character and the camera sees me.

• 40:24Josh Horowitz?

  Interesting.

• 40:25Speaker 00

  It's like a friend.

• 40:26Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, gotta make friends with the camera.

• 40:27Speaker 00

  Gotta make friends with the camera. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

• 40:30Josh Horowitz?

  It's gonna be a long shoot otherwise.

• 40:31Speaker 00

  I don't know what, how, how that transition happened, but it like, I feel so much more comfortable when it's on my close up.

• 40:36Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:37Speaker 00

  When it's right here, because I can't lie and once I can just fully go into that headspace, that's Sophie's gone. Something else comes up.

• 40:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I'm always fascinated by like the sort of actors I've talked to over the years that have like, they're like, they have such a high BS detector that they're their toughest, they're their own toughest critic, like Kristen Stewart infamously. I always bring her up. She's always told me and others like, it's like, she'll just cut in the middle of a take if she just feels like it's.

• 41:02Speaker 00

  You can't continue.

• 41:03Josh Horowitz?

  It's like, no, this is not real.

• 41:05Speaker 00

  And I'm learning that too, because it's like, there's guilt that comes with that, where you're like, oh, God, I'm holding up production. And specifically within TV, when it's so fast moving, it's like, I can't really do that. But, oh, God, when you just have to call cut. I mean, absolutely. And I'm learning that and I'm finally starting to speak up for myself because

• 41:27Speaker 00

  you disengage so quickly when something is off or when you're distracted.

• 41:31Josh Horowitz?

  So you alluded to this earlier, but like you're kind of in the home stretch for Yellowjackets, which is obviously such, is gonna always be a pivotal part of your life, a chunk of your life that you were returning to for about five, six years, right? What do you, I mean, like when you think back to Sophie that was on set those first few days, like, were you a different actor, you think? Were you a different human being? Like, is it's?

• 41:51Speaker 00

  It's a good question. Yes and no. I think, I think I'm still pretty much the same. I think,

• 42:02Speaker 00

  I'm lighter now. I think I carried a lot of darkness or wanted to carry a lot of darkness and was very obsessed with perception when I was younger.

• 42:12Speaker 00

  And it almost feels, you brought this up earlier, but you know, when I was younger, I was trying to be older and now I'm kind of just like, I can be my age because I'm not ashamed of my age. It was always, it was the shame within being young and feeling like I'd lived so many lives. I was like, no, like you don't see like, I'm 12, but like, I've lived another life before.

• 42:33Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, I have value, I have perspective.

• 42:35Speaker 00

  I grew up on the internet, like I. Know so much.

• 42:37Josh Horowitz?

  I packed a lot in.

• 42:38Speaker 00

  I packed a lot, a lot going on up here.

• 42:42Speaker 00

  And now it's like I let go of all of that and I I feel much more myself now.

• 42:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 42:48Speaker 00

  And I feel much more.

• 42:51Speaker 00

  I think when I was like my early days on being on camera, I was just obsessed with being just natural. Just be natural, just. Throw it away. I was like taking all these on camera classes and it was horrendous when. You'd get notes. It was just throw it away. And I was like, God, what a. Terrible note. Um, but that's kind of what was going on in my mind where I was like, just.

• 43:13Josh Horowitz?

  It's funny.

• 43:14Speaker 00

  It's like coming from theater too. It like makes sense to have that mentality, but it's not. Something that's going to create for a dynamic or interesting performance. And it was just like. Me early in my career thinking that way.

• 43:25Josh Horowitz?

  Well, there's this contradiction of like actively trying to be natural as opposed to just being.

• 43:30Speaker 00

  Being natural.

• 43:31Josh Horowitz?

  You know what I mean? Like, think about it. Just be natural. Be natural.

• 43:35Speaker 00

  Oh, and then it's, you know.

• 43:36Josh Horowitz?

  Then it's tilted and it's not.

• 43:37Speaker 00

  Robotic and it's still, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, acting is like. Thinking about directing and thinking about giving notes is so incredibly. Convoluted and challenging, but I think. You know, the best directors know how to uplift somebody and.

• 43:56Josh Horowitz?

  Know how much to give and not.

• 43:58Speaker 00

  How much? It's so psychological.

• 44:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 44:00Speaker 00

  It's so.

• 44:03Speaker 00

  There's so much to it that I would, I would. I know everybody says this, but I would love to. Just like dive into that, just to like learn, because I've. I help friends with self tapes and I know that's so incredibly different, but you're giving people notes.

• 44:17Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 44:18Speaker 00

  I love giving, I love being bossy. So I'm like, this would be great. Um. So one day, maybe.

• 44:27Josh Horowitz?

  What do, what do you think the, I mean, the one, two punch, especially of heretic and companion. Well, I think both in the calendar last year was, I mean, that's a meaningful career, kind of like.

• 44:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was.

• 44:39Josh Horowitz?

  Things to prove. What is that? You know, done for you from a career perspective, from a goals perspective, you know, I know you love. The genre space, you love horror, but you obviously want to have a well rounded career. You want to do all the things.

• 44:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:55Josh Horowitz?

  Where are you at in terms of prioritizing?

• 44:58Speaker 00

  It's interesting. I'm at a really strange point in my career where it's like.

• 45:03Speaker 00

  Both of those characters, they were slightly different, but still in the same world. And I know that I, I want my goal is to be a character actor. And people say that, but I want to play something that's so oppositional to who I am and because people are seeing, and then even in Her Pride of Hell, it's like a heightened, far more tortured version of, like, he was kind of basing certain elements off of me, or even stylistically, and a lot of people can't look past that. And I'm, it's this hard point in my career where I'm balancing being a blank slate

• 45:48Speaker 00

  and having personality and making music and making art and putting out the art that you like and having taste. And I'm trying to separate the two, and I'm trying to figure out how to separate the two, but a lot of people can't look past it.

• 45:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:00Speaker 00

  And I'm just asking people to dive a little deeper and, you know,

• 46:05Speaker 00

  to search for something deeper and look for something else because I just, it's not even wanting to prove myself, it's just to prove to, to myself that I, um, I just want to have fun and be somebody else for a second and not always, always be in like the darkest of.

• 46:25Josh Horowitz?

  Sure. You're due for.

• 46:28Speaker 00

  I don't think I've ever had a, well, I did do, I did a film called Peaches that was quite light, and I was like, this is the most challenging experience of my life because it's so light. But I need to get used to that so I can,

• 46:41Speaker 00

  you know, not just always live in such a, because I'm not like that in real life.

• 46:45Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 46:45Speaker 00

  But something about on camera, it's like I,

• 46:49Speaker 00

  it's this place that I immediately turn to because it feels comfortable and it feels cathartic because the camera sees me.

• 46:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:57Speaker 00

  And letting go those emotion on camera, it's like, that's a therapy session right there.

• 47:02Josh Horowitz?

  Therapy for free.

• 47:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, for free, I can cry and then the camera's like.

• 47:07Josh Horowitz?

  I see you, I hear you. And here's your check. This is great.

• 47:14Josh Horowitz?

  Well, maybe you're due for the, the sousa call, the, the musical.

• 47:17Speaker 00

  I was in sousa.

• 47:18Josh Horowitz?

  I know, that's why I say that.

• 47:20Speaker 00

  You did your research. I mean, of course you did. There was a picture of me with like, I played a monkey in it that they're like, and I had the Paul Frank shirt. God, what a good.

• 47:30Josh Horowitz?

  Good gig.

• 47:30Speaker 00

  What a good show.

• 47:32Josh Horowitz?

  What I'm saying, it might be time for a musical theater return.

• 47:35Speaker 00

  I have that goofy side.

• 47:38Josh Horowitz?

  Juliet's doing, I just saw Juliet do Rocky Horror here in town.

• 47:42Speaker 00

  So cool.

• 47:43Josh Horowitz?

  Right?

• 47:43Speaker 00

  Is she still doing it?

• 47:44Josh Horowitz?

  I think so. I saw it a couple of weeks ago.

• 47:46Speaker 00

  I mean, Rocky Horror is the best of the best.

• 47:49Josh Horowitz?

  The best. I love, I love a dark musical, a little shop, a Sweetie Todd, a...

• 47:56Speaker 00

  Sweetie, don't even get me started on Sweetie Todd. Like, Sweetie Todd is my childhood. Sondheim is the reason why I'm acting. Sondheim is life. Sondheim is everything.

• 48:08Josh Horowitz?

  What's the Sondheim of choice? Is it Sweetie Todd?

• 48:12Speaker 00

  That's a really hard question. Um, oh God, it's changing. It depends on what point I'm at in my life emotionally, because every musical is so emotional. Merrily We Roll Along is probably the most heartfelt for me. Into the Woods was like one of the first shows I saw. My older sister was in it. And I saw her do that.

• 48:40Speaker 00

  I've actually never seen Sunday in the Park with George, but one day. But all of, everything, everything.

• 48:47Josh Horowitz?

  And where are you at? I mean, the only franchisey kind of thing you've done is Star Wars. You did Boogaboo with Fats.

• 48:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:54Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, I would imagine you're on a shortlist of like, Marvel would kill to have you like be an X-Men. Like, there's the fan art. I've seen the Rogue stuff. I don't know if you've seen that out there.

• 49:03Speaker 00

  I see it. I tagged. Yeah, and I'm like, interesting.

• 49:06Josh Horowitz?

  Where are you at on that kind of idea?

• 49:09Speaker 00

  I'm open if it's a director that's down to collaborate and listen to me and I'm not just...

• 49:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 49:16Speaker 00

  You know, I want to have a voice. And I know that's absolutely possible and people do that all the time, but I would just want to make sure it's the right story being told, especially if it's such a huge franchise. It's like, that itself has such an impact and I want to make sure it's the right story and it's, you know, not just...

• 49:40Speaker 00

  Spreading like violence and shock value, but something meaningful.

• 49:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Does X-Men have any meaning for you as a kid? Did you watch the cartoon or anything?

• 49:52Speaker 00

  It's the blue people.

• 49:54Josh Horowitz?

  There's my answer.

• 49:56Speaker 00

  So I'm gonna get a lot of hate on that one.

• 49:59Josh Horowitz?

  No, you're fine.

• 49:59Speaker 00

  No, like Jennifer Lawrence in like blue.

• 50:02Josh Horowitz?

  She was mystique. You got that.

• 50:03Speaker 00

  Mystique. Yes, sorry. Okay.

• 50:04Josh Horowitz?

  Anna Paquin was rogue back in the day.

• 50:06Speaker 00

  Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm open.

• 50:09Josh Horowitz?

  She's open.

• 50:09Speaker 00

  Yes, always. I'm open to anything.

• 50:12Josh Horowitz?

  It is that interesting point. I mean, imagine for the first time in recent years where like you have choice as an actor.

• 50:18Speaker 00

  It's bizarre. Yeah, I haven't done like a self-tape in a while and I'm like, I'm starting to feel like a imposter or something, or like I forgot how to act or something because I haven't done a self-tape.

• 50:29Josh Horowitz?

  But is that weird? The first couple of times you had to say no to something like this that goes against everything?

• 50:34Speaker 00

  Guilt, guilt. So much guilt. But, um, you know, ultimately, again, it's about finding the right collaborator because that's what you take with you for the rest of your life.

• 50:47Josh Horowitz?

  Were you, are you a good? I don't know if they do even conventional auditions anymore. It's all self-tapes. Like, did you ever?

• 50:52Speaker 00

  Was I good at auditions?

• 50:53Josh Horowitz?

  Auditioning.

• 50:53Speaker 00

  I slayed.

• 50:54Josh Horowitz?

  Did you really?

• 50:55Speaker 00

  I mean, I was like, I was a kid from Chicago and I would go in the room and something would, again, it was like being in front of, it just made sense. Being just in front of a couple of people. I was like, oh God, I can finally turn on and be myself, but not be my, be something else.

• 51:09Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 51:10Speaker 00

  And then you lost that within self-tapes. I feel like for a while I wasn't booking when I was a certain age. Because you have to be in the room and flip that switch.

• 51:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Wait, is it true? I think I read somewhere that you like used to almost like manifest by like writing before an audition like?

• 51:24Speaker 00

  Psycho. Yeah.

• 51:25Josh Horowitz?

  What was it? You would like, I'm gonna get this kind of thing or like?

• 51:28Speaker 00

  The specific memory that pops up in my head was

• 51:32Speaker 00

  Writing down everything that was going to happen in the audition. Writing down the lyrics of the song. Writing down what people were like, writing down how everything was gonna go out. And then at the end. Ending with like, I don't know how many, I forgot how many times, but like, I'm going to book this, I'm going to book this. And then at least doing like three pages of writing up. It was psycho. It was like some slight OCD possibly stuff.

• 52:00Speaker 00

  And I just had a lot of stuff like that where I was like, if I don't do this, I'm gonna fail. But it was like me trying to gain power and confidence.

• 52:07Josh Horowitz?

  Control over the situation.

• 52:09Speaker 00

  It was control and it helped. It was placebo.

• 52:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Okay, so coming up. You still have a couple of months, you said, left to shoot Yellow Jackets. Are you emotionally prepared for what's gonna be?

• 52:21Speaker 00

  The end?

• 52:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 52:24Josh Horowitz?

  Have you read the end? Do you know?

• 52:25Speaker 00

  No.

• 52:29Speaker 00

  I'm, yo lordy. It's like, makes me emotional thinking about it, because it was, it's such a huge part of my life. And it's like more of what most people know me for. So it kind of feels like letting go of like a really integral, important part of yourself. And like, what, will I feel empty? Will I? I wanna, I really wanna explore different options. So I think that's the biggest feeling that like there's.

• 52:54Josh Horowitz?

  Opportunity and space.

• 52:56Speaker 00

  And freedom and space and.

• 52:59Speaker 00

  I have time, like I have a whole year, like instead of half a year, a couple of months.

• 53:03Josh Horowitz?

  No, it's huge.

• 53:04Speaker 00

  Have a whole year to do weird projects and take a lot of swings and do that. And not just choose like two movies a year and then Yellow Jackets.

• 53:11Josh Horowitz?

  And whatever can fit in.

• 53:12Speaker 00

  Whatever can fit in.

• 53:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 53:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, so that feels, that's really exciting, but. It's gonna be so emotional when we end. I already know that Melanie is planning a karaoke party and we've been doing a lot of karaoke, karaoke is life. So I'm excited for that and I'm gonna be planning my songs for them.

• 53:31Josh Horowitz?

  She's an angel on earth, Melanie Linsky, come on.

• 53:33Speaker 00

  Oh my god.

• 53:35Josh Horowitz?

  The sweetest human being.

• 53:36Speaker 00

  So talented and just, ugh. So cool, like, oh my god, talking about like someone that has good music taste. We've been trying to like get these band t-shirts on the show. We got this band, The Bats, on the show. She has such good taste and immediately, I was in the Pavement music video and she was like, Pavement! And I was like. I knew I loved you!

• 54:01Josh Horowitz?

  Are you gonna be working Jennifer Kent? Is that movie hopefully happening?

• 54:05Speaker 00

  Oh my gosh, she's amazing. And also talking about good, I know it like doesn't taste means a lot of things, but you can see within, it like goes deeper when someone has good taste and especially music. Music says everything about someone. And she, like, all we do is just send each other music. And it's really, it's like, it's beautiful.

• 54:25Josh Horowitz?

  Nice. Okay, we end Happy Second Fuse every time with a profoundly random questions. You ready, Sophie?

• 54:30Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 54:31Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, it's already been random, to be honest, but we're gonna go even deeper. Dogs or cats?

• 54:35Speaker 00

  Um, huh.

• 54:39Josh Horowitz?

  It's okay.

• 54:41Speaker 00

  Dogs. Dogs. I grew up with dogs. I grew up with cocker spaniels. And I think about that game on the, you probably didn't grow up with this, Nintendogs? DS?

• 54:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 54:52Speaker 00

  Um, with a Z. And I had a cocker spaniel named Annie on that. And like, she's just forever in my head. And I'm gonna get a King Cavalier cocker spaniel named Annie. Because I sent her to the pet hotel. And I didn't realize that the pet hotel was like sending your dog to heaven. Oh. And I never got her back, so I got her.

• 55:09Josh Horowitz?

  I'm sorry.

• 55:10Speaker 00

  I do something about that. There you go.

• 55:13Josh Horowitz?

  And you had Sawyer named after the character in Lost, right?

• 55:15Speaker 00

  You know, yeah. Yeah, um, all the cocker spaniels in my life. Sawyer, yeah. Um, I'll get, I'll just have a bunch of cocker spaniels, like the whitest dog out there for sure.

• 55:29Josh Horowitz?

  What do you collect?

• 55:31Speaker 00

  Um, I guess band t-shirts. Okay. Not to be, I'm trying to think of like something, monkey, monkey, uh, I, I'm kind of fizz, like fizzling out of the monkey phase, but I'm obsessed with orangutans and...

• 55:46Josh Horowitz?

  You're correct, you're collecting orangutans? Just actual monkeys?

• 55:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, not actual. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. They're stuffed animals.

• 55:52Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 55:52Speaker 00

  Um, and as I was moving, I was like, oh my God, like I have like a whole shelf. I probably have like 30 plush toys of, because anytime I see one, I'm like...

• 56:04Josh Horowitz?

  Come home with me.

• 56:05Speaker 00

  You're coming home with me, you're to meet your new friends. So that and panty shirts.

• 56:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, and and gaming consoles.

• 56:12Speaker 00

  And gaming consoles, I don't need.

• 56:15Josh Horowitz?

  We covered this, but favorite video game of all time, it's The Sims, that's.

• 56:19Speaker 00

  Sims has my heart, Sims has my heart, you know.

• 56:23Josh Horowitz?

  The Dakota Johnson memorial question, she asked me this, I ask everybody, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 56:31Speaker 00

  One bee in your butt. That's like, that's not that bad. I want to be able to talk.

• 56:37Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:38Speaker 00

  Connect.

• 56:39Josh Horowitz?

  Sensible lady, what's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 56:42Speaker 00

  Um, Elliot Smith.

• 56:43Josh Horowitz?

  On brand.

• 56:44Speaker 00

  I'm so easy to fucking predict.

• 56:49Josh Horowitz?

  Who's the last actor you were mistaken for?

• 56:52Speaker 00

  Sophie Turner.

• 56:55Speaker 00

  Cause the Sophie Thatcher, Sophie Turner, and she's on Game of Thrones, that's huge. And then I met her one day, and I was like, whoa, it's like that like Spider-Man meme, we're like. I mean, we don't look alike, but similar names ish.

• 57:08Josh Horowitz?

  Did she get the reverse, did she not, that she got in Sophie Tha-

• 57:12Speaker 00

  Hell no, no. I don't know.

• 57:15Josh Horowitz?

  What's the worst note a director has ever given you?

• 57:21Speaker 00

  Oh shit, I'm like, I don't want to like off somebody.

• 57:23Josh Horowitz?

  You don't need names.

• 57:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 57:29Speaker 00

  The worst note, well, it's always like, this is so basic but thrown away, I would get a note and it really threw me off and it was.

• 57:39Speaker 00

  Be 5am Sophie, which means like no thoughts.

• 57:45Speaker 00

  So that threw me off, it wasn't a bad note, but it would just always throw me off and I'd be like, what does that mean? You're like, no thoughts, none.

• 57:53Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, let me not think.

• 57:54Speaker 00

  Let me be stupid.

• 57:57Speaker 00

  So that was really hard.

• 57:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 57:58Speaker 00

  When it gets like intellect or like abstract like that.

• 58:02Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, sometimes you want practical, just like.

• 58:05Speaker 00

  Sometimes I'm like, just tell me something specific and.

• 58:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, that's.

• 58:09Speaker 00

  On the nose, I would prefer that.

• 58:10Josh Horowitz?

  Faster, slower.

• 58:12Speaker 00

  Actor.

• 58:12Josh Horowitz?

  Right. And in the spirit of Happy Second Fused, who's an actor who always makes you happy?

• 58:18Speaker 00

  An actor who always, Philip Seymour Hoffman.

• 58:21Josh Horowitz?

  Love it. Movie that makes you sad?

• 58:25Speaker 00

  I'm gonna say Wings of Desire, and I always bring that up, but it makes me devastated.

• 58:31Josh Horowitz?

  A little Finn Bender's action, right?

• 58:33Speaker 00

  Finn Bender's, oh, he was at Cannes and I really wanted to meet him, but I didn't.

• 58:36Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 58:37Speaker 00

  One day.

• 58:37Josh Horowitz?

  And finally, a food that makes you confused. You don't get it.

• 58:41Speaker 00

  Black licorice.

• 58:42Josh Horowitz?

  Oh.

• 58:44Speaker 00

  Disgusting.

• 58:45Josh Horowitz?

  It's kind of like a cilantro thing for some people. It's just...

• 58:48Speaker 00

  Black licorice is like the most disgusting thing I've ever tasted in my life. No, I feel like very strongly about it.

• 58:55Josh Horowitz?

  I can tell.

• 58:56Speaker 00

  Um, no, absolutely not.

• 58:58Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, we won't make you have it.

• 58:59Speaker 00

  Not even confused. It's not confused. That was like pure hatred.

• 59:04Josh Horowitz?

  Happy Sad Hatred, my new spinoff show.

• 59:08Josh Horowitz?

  Um, Sophie, thanks for taking the time today. This was a blast.

• 59:12Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 59:12Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, congratulations on everything that's come, and I'm so excited to tag along future years.

• 59:17Speaker 00

  So nice to meet you.

• 59:18Josh Horowitz?

  Just getting started. Same.

• 59:21Speaker 00

  And so ends another edition of Happy Sad Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't supposed to do this by Josh.

• 59:39Speaker 03

  Do you ever watch a TV show set in a historical time period and think, how accurate is this really? But also, does it matter if it's accurate or not? Nefertv is a new podcast about shows set in ancient times.

• 59:55Speaker 03

  This season, we're recapping every episode of the show Spartacus: Blood and Sand. I'm Anne Foster, and I have never seen this show before. And I'm Gina Berry, and I have watched this show maybe too many times. Join us every other Monday on the Nefertv podcast as we discuss the real history behind Spartacus: Blood and Sand. Follow Nefertv, that's N-E-F-E-R-T-V, wherever you get your podcasts.