Steven Spielberg, Emily Blunt, & Josh O'Connor

A historic episode of Happy Sad Confused as Josh welcomes the true GOAT, Steven Spielberg! And he's brought friends as Emily Blunt and Josh O'Connor join to chat about DISCLOSURE DAY and some of the most iconic films of Spielberg's career -- from E. T. and the INDIANA JONES films to CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND. This one is a movie lover's dream. Watch on Spotify. If you’re subscribed to Spotify Premium, you don’t get any Spotify ads on my video. SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENTS! 6/16 -- Matt Smith in NY -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠⁠ 6/22 -- Millie Bobby Brown -- ⁠⁠Tickets here⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 1:00Josh Horowitz?

  Did Harrison Ford turn down playing Alan Grant in Jurassic Park?

• 1:03Speaker 03

  Yes, he did. He may not remember that, but I sure do.

• 1:07Speaker 04

  Were you cross with him?

• 1:08Speaker 03

  I wasn't cross, I was crushed.

• 1:10Speaker 04

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now.

• 1:18Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. I say another edition, it's not just another show. Let's be real, guys. We have Josh O'Connor, we have Emily Blunt, and we have the goat himself, Steven Spielberg, is on Happy Sad Confused, guys. Welcome to the show. Can you tell I'm excited? I'm still riding high off of this one. Taped earlier today, I spent about 45, 50 minutes chatting, movies, sci-fi, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Jaws, Close Encounters, Disclosure Day with Steven Spielberg and two of the greatest actors working today. So, yeah, it was a special day, and this is a very, very, very special episode.

• 2:01Josh Horowitz?

  So, I'm gonna, I'm gonna speak maybe more than I usually would on the intro. Don't complain, guys. You know, you can just fast forward. Get past my face, go right to Steven if you want. It's, this is all free. But I do want to give some context, because this is a really, really special one. And, look, I think sometimes I'm guilty of this, we're all guilty of being hyperbolic.

• 2:22Josh Horowitz?

  Podcasters out there saying, this is the greatest, this is the biggest, this is whatever. This might be the most meaningful, happy, sad, confused episode thus far in our 12 plus year history. Um, there is no filmmaker that means more to me than Steven Spielberg. I am not unique in that, in saying that sentence. So many of us can say that, whether we are fans, professionals, if we're actors, filmmakers, podcasters. Um, he is, I would venture to say, and I don't think it's much of a venture, the greatest of all time, the most influential filmmaker of all time, full stop, not just like in our time. Look at the history of film, the body of work, the variety of work, the impact

• 3:06Josh Horowitz?

  on culture. Um, this is not a controversial statement. So he's hugely meaningful for me. I've never really spent any significant time talking to Steven Spielberg prior to this conversation. This was long in the making. My thanks to my friends at Universal, you know who you are, for helping make this happen. Um, I didn't want to jinx it and tell many people until it actually happened because you never know about these things. And it went really well. I'm really happy with this conversation. It's challenging. I'll be honest. Again, it's kind of like pulling the curtain back. Group conversations can be challenging. And, you know, if you have somebody one-on-one, and certainly someone like Spielberg where you want to like dive in and some, there's some great other podcasts out there where

• 3:48Josh Horowitz?

  people got him one-on-one. And, you know, I'll mention like my friends like Jake Hamilton and Kevin McCarthy, obviously the big picture did great stuff with him. Um, and mine is a little different. It involves, I mean, luckily it involves two great actors that you want to hear from anyway. Um, but it has Emily Blunt and Josh O'Connor, the stars of Disclosure Day. They're both excellent in the film. Of course they are. Um, so I was a little worried about how I was going to navigate this because I wanted to ask all the, the burning questions I've wanted to ask Spielberg all my life. But I also wanted to like pay respect to these, of course, amazing actors. So. That's the dance that I did for this conversation. I think we did an okay job. I think everybody, everybody said nice things afterwards. Everybody seemed to have a good time. I'm happy

• 4:31Josh Horowitz?

  with it. Did I get to 3% of the things I would want to ask you in Spielberg? No, but it felt like a real conversation. We hit a lot of really interesting points about. We did cover, you know, we did obviously talk a lot about Disclosure Day, which is his latest film, which is out in theaters on Friday. It is, of course, his latest science fiction film dealing with aliens. I mean, this guy obviously has kind of encountered, has encountered, there's my Freudian slip. He's dealt with the subject before and the likes of Close Encounters of the Third Kind and E.T. and War of the Worlds to a respect. And this, he says, is kind of the culmination of those stories in some way. So we talk about those films, sci-fi, a lot about E.T., a lot about Jaws. We talk a little Indiana

• 5:16Josh Horowitz?

  Jones, some what-if questions of kind of films that he almost did. And yeah, there's a lot in here. We jammed a lot into about 45, 50 minutes, I think. And I don't know if this will ever happen again, but I'm happy it happened this one time and I'm satisfied enough with how it went. So I think you guys are going to enjoy this. If you love movies, and of course you do, because you're a listener and subscriber to Happy, Say Confused, then this is really something that I think you'll get a kick out of. Before we get to the conversation, quick reminder, patreon.com/happy say confused. I say it every episode. I'll continue to say it until I lose breath because honestly, every single subscriber over there helps us make more. It helps us hire a crew to

• 6:01Josh Horowitz?

  shoot this ourselves and make it feel special. It's really important. So patreon.com/happy say confused. And you're not just contributing just for the sake of contributing. You're getting early access and discount codes and bonus materials and merch and autographed posters and all sorts of fun stuff. Access to our live events. We have two great ones coming up in New York City. I'm so excited about June 16th with Matt Smith, June 24th with Millie Bobby Brown.

• 6:30Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, I'm a lucky guy. Think about those guests. It's amazing. It's really remarkable. So, check out our Patreon. Support us if you can. And, um, yeah, without any further ado, let's get to it. Check out Disclosure Day in theaters this Friday, um, and enjoy my conversation with Josh O'Connor, with Emily Blunt, and yes, with the great Steven Spielberg. Shall we do this, guys? Yes!

• 6:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, we'd love to.

• 6:57Josh Horowitz?

  It's good to see you all. For the next 45 minutes, I'm gonna pretend this is totally normal, okay, guys? Emily, welcome back to the podcast.

• 7:04Speaker 05

  Thank you. Happy to see you.

• 7:05Josh Horowitz?

  Great to see you. Josh, welcome to Happy, Sad, Confused, finally. Big fan. And I'm just gonna say this for the record, Steven Spielberg, welcome to Happy, Sad, Confused. I can't believe this is happening.

• 7:14Speaker 03

  I can't believe I'm sitting here.

• 7:16Josh Horowitz?

  Please.

• 7:16Speaker 03

  Between, uh...

• 7:19Speaker 05

  Which of us is happy?

• 7:19Speaker 03

  These two extroverts.

• 7:21Speaker 05

  Which of us is confused?

• 7:23Josh Horowitz?

  I'm not sad, so I've gotta be happy. Just three happies? Three happies.

• 7:26Speaker 05

  We're gonna be three happies.

• 7:27Josh Horowitz?

  I've kinda been prepping for this interview for like, 45 years, so let me first just ask the question that 60-year-old Josh would've asked Steven Spielberg. Um, why did you make E.T. go away at the end?

• 7:39Speaker 03

  Why did he go away?

• 7:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 7:40Speaker 03

  Because, you know, you know why? Because we have to get on with our lives with all the equipment that we've been given by our parents and our teachers, and E.T. was a short-term fix, but was not a life-term fix.

• 7:54Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, acceptable. I'll take it. Congratulations on the film, guys. I've seen it twice. I was at the premiere last night. Is it still like an exhale? You've all been doing this for a minute. You've had great successes, but like, to feel that collective moment in an audience where you can, you can feel it in the room, is that always a relief?

• 8:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's, it's beautiful. It hits you like a wave, because, I mean, I'd only seen the movie once with Joshie over here, and once with John, and so to see it with an audience was wild. And that was the, that's the completion of the whole moment for me, because it's so overwhelming when you watch it the first time. I was very happy to watch it with Josh, because he and I spent the whole movie from the inside looking out. And to see that overwhelming feat come at you... It was a lot, I was beside myself. And then I took it in more with John. And then I got to see it in that with that palpable energy around you and that was amazing.

• 8:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, just once again, it just goes to show you that there's nothing better to see a movie with a live audience.

• 8:54Speaker 05

  Nothing better.

• 8:55Josh Horowitz?

  And you've been proving that for 50 years, sir. So I'm not usually a prop comic, but I have some gifts for you guys. Keeping with the occasion, okay? Let's start with...

• 9:03Speaker 05

  You're a prop comic?

• 9:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I'm like the carrot top of interviewers. They always say that. Have you read this book, Emily?

• 9:09Speaker 03

  She's a big, she's our number one fan. Yeah.

• 9:11Josh Horowitz?

  This is, this is, I know you're a big Jaws, I mean, we all are Jaws people. I was gonna say, like, have you read the book? And then I looked at the cover and there's a John Krasinski quote on the cover.

• 9:19Speaker 05

  What? That's amazing.

• 9:22Josh Horowitz?

  So this is the Jaws Vlog, which is of course written by the co-writer of Jaws, Carl Gottlieb.

• 9:26Speaker 05

  This is without a doubt one of the greatest books about making movies. John Krasinski, star of The Office.

• 9:31Speaker 03

  I love that, I love that. Husband and Emily. He starred in The Office.

• 9:36Josh Horowitz?

  He starred. It was in the same big eyes for the rest of us.

• 9:39Speaker 03

  I didn't know anyone else in that there. I think it was just John, right?

• 9:42Josh Horowitz?

  As far as I remember.

• 9:43Speaker 05

  That's incredible.

• 9:44Josh Horowitz?

  It's a great read.

• 9:45Speaker 05

  Is this for me?

• 9:45Josh Horowitz?

  That's for you.

• 9:46Speaker 05

  Merci.

• 9:47Josh Horowitz?

  For you, Josh. This is not an actual From 82. I'm sure I had...

• 9:52Speaker 03

  Oh my goodness.

• 9:53Josh Horowitz?

  I'm sure I had a version.

• 9:54Speaker 05

  You've made him so happy.

• 9:55Josh Horowitz?

  The ET lunchbox.

• 9:57Speaker 03

  He's gonna be dining out on that for a long time.

• 10:00Speaker 05

  You can be out in your garden with that, Josh.

• 10:03Josh Horowitz?

  That is actually the best present I've received in years. That's very sweet.

• 10:08Speaker 03

  Look at that.

• 10:09Speaker 05

  Oh, that is...

• 10:10Josh Horowitz?

  The inside?

• 10:10Speaker 03

  Look at the inside of that.

• 10:11Speaker 05

  That is so fabulous.

• 10:13Josh Horowitz?

  That is so beautiful.

• 10:14Speaker 03

  I don't even remember that lunchbox.

• 10:17Speaker 05

  No, you are genuinely thrilled.

• 10:19Speaker 03

  I don't know, I don't see... This is, this is...

• 10:23Josh Horowitz?

  Do you remember this, though?

• 10:23Speaker 03

  Yes, that's the Kmart.

• 10:25Josh Horowitz?

  This is the actual one for anything...

• 10:27Speaker 03

  The actual first one.

• 10:27Josh Horowitz?

  My wife still has this. We have this at home. Does this spark any memories for you, Stephen?

• 10:32Speaker 03

  Just all the memories of the controversy when airplanes, like huge jumbo jets that was all cargo, were landing at Kennedy and LAX and these little ET dolls were pouring out on the rear of the airplanes.

• 10:49Josh Horowitz?

  to you, but my wife might kill me. So I'm not going to get this to Steven.

• 10:52Speaker 03

  I love the rouge blossom on the chest. That's a lovely thing.

• 10:55Josh Horowitz?

  I know. And the last thing, this is more of a show and tell thing. I was going through my photo archives for proof that this was destined to happen.

• 11:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:02Josh Horowitz?

  This is me at six years old.

• 11:03Speaker 03

  Oh, you're in Wyoming. Look at that.

• 11:05Josh Horowitz?

  Visiting Devil's Tower.

• 11:06Speaker 03

  That's very cool. That is a very cool show. Wow. Very cool show. Except you're on the wrong side of the tower. You missed all the, all the, you missed the light show.

• 11:15Josh Horowitz?

  I know.

• 11:16Speaker 03

  The light show is on the other side of the tower.

• 11:19Josh Horowitz?

  I need the VIP card from Steven Spielberg.

• 11:23Josh Horowitz?

  We'll be right back with more Happy Sad Confused.

• 11:29Speaker 00

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• 12:00Speaker 06

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• 12:32Josh Horowitz?

  Congratulations again on this, guys. Talk to me a little bit about, I mean, I mentioned Close Encounters. This is not a sequel to Close Encounters, but this is, it's a companion piece. It does like speak in conversation, I feel like, to Close Encounters. Do you see those links yourself?

• 12:46Speaker 03

  I, I, this was intentionally the, the summary of Close Encounters ET and now Disclosure Day.

• 12:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 12:53Speaker 03

  This was meant to be the summation of this kind of trilogy that really was, was not interrelated, except For the juxtaposition of an otherworldly species or a highly advanced civilization coming here for the first time.

• 13:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I do see like when I was again, I've seen it a couple of times in your two respective characters, there are elements of Roy Neary kind of in both. There's like the obsession that your character has and there's this inner, I don't know, this inner secret, this like drive, this unknowable thing within.

• 13:27Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 13:28Josh Horowitz?

  And those were both encompassed in Roy in a way.

• 13:30Speaker 03

  And ET as well and Elliot because Elliot could feel ET's feelings.

• 13:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 13:35Speaker 03

  So if Elliot, you know, pops a beer can, you know, unknowingly at Elliot's house where Elliot's at school, Elliot's gonna burp after ET drinks it and then Elliot is going to, you know, kind of pass out when ET does. So it's all kind of interwoven, interrelational.

• 13:52Josh Horowitz?

  Again, to clarify, there's no actual link to Close Encounters. That being said, like looking, and I don't want to reveal too much about the film, at some footage in the film, I would not have been surprised to see some footage from Close Encounters at a certain point, like Roy Neary pop up. Was it ever discussed?

• 14:07Speaker 03

  No, I know, I didn't even thought about, I didn't even think about that because that would have been breaking down the fourth wall.

• 14:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 14:13Speaker 03

  And I was, I was less interested in this being an incredible movie than I was just being a very credible film on this topic.

• 14:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, well, it is a very, I mean, it sounds crazy to say like an alien movie to a degree is a grounded movie. It owes as much to chase movie, conspiracy theory movie. One of my all time favorite movies outside of yours is North by Northwest.

• 14:33Speaker 03

  Yes, thank you for that, because one of my favorite Hitchcock films. And also Three Days of the Condor.

• 14:38Josh Horowitz?

  Of course, ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances.

• 14:42Speaker 03

  Right.

• 14:42Josh Horowitz?

  Right. For you guys.

• 14:44Speaker 03

  These are extraordinary people who are made very ordinary in this movie by really good writing and directing. David Cap.

• 14:52Josh Horowitz?

  It always helps. So are you guys good at like, you've worked with some of the greats. You know, you're must even, you are the greatest.

• 15:00Speaker 05

  No, he just vaporizes when we start saying these things.

• 15:04Speaker 06

  Fully vaporized.

• 15:05Speaker 03

  No, I just, I just teleport to Tahiti. That's a nice trick. I learned a few things by making these movies.

• 15:13Josh Horowitz?

  You haven't shared that with the rest of us.

• 15:16Speaker 03

  I'll be here when you're talking about it.

• 15:18Josh Horowitz?

  Do you, at what point on set do you ask the questions like I'm asking today? Like, say like, what was it really like on the set of Jaws? What was like, I mean, do you like?

• 15:26Speaker 05

  Oh, I, I did it too. The first time I met him, I was walking in there and I had a real talking with myself in the car. I was like, do not barrage him with Jaws questions. Keep it in the present, but then he did start telling me a few things about it. But it's, it's thrilling. It's thrilling to be around the man who conceived all of this. And we do pepper you with questions and you love talking about movie stories, which is great.

• 15:53Speaker 03

  I do, I do. They're like war stories.

• 15:54Speaker 05

  And you remember them so viscerally.

• 15:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, I remember the really hard movies better than the visual.

• 16:02Josh Horowitz?

  For you, Josh, were you able to quiet the inner geek? I mean, the press tour is a whole nother opportunity to kind of get all the stuff out there.

• 16:08Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's endless, but as Emily said, we're lucky that Stephen likes, I think, or at least he's pretending we are.

• 16:16Josh Horowitz?

  He likes talking about them.

• 16:18Speaker 06

  Likes talking about them. And I think, you know, we have a shared appreciation for these incredible movies that have fully shaped us.

• 16:26Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 16:27Speaker 06

  And so it just, every day we were talking about. I mean, I think my second day on set, I was just going all in on Jurassic Park.

• 16:36Josh Horowitz?

  You were.

• 16:37Speaker 06

  And he told me one of the most incredible stories about the storm.

• 16:40Speaker 03

  Yes, she hurricated, the hurricane.

• 16:42Josh Horowitz?

  Storm.

• 16:42Speaker 03

  Hurricane, hurricane. Hurricane Iniki. Yeah. No, we were hit by a category five hurricane. It made landfall.

• 16:50Speaker 05

  Were you in Hawaii?

• 16:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, we were in Kauai and Iniki made landfall at our hotel. Not like four miles up the beach from our hotel or the other direction. We were landfall.

• 17:01Speaker 05

  Oh, my God.

• 17:02Speaker 03

  It was, I've never been through anything like it before, all of us, the whole cast and the whole crew. We were all huddled in a conference room, 18 feet below sea level. And the only thing that saved that hotel and saved all the people who were in these, these conference rooms was the fact that there was a 30, 18 foot breakwater. These are rocks piled up here. So the sea just in front, so the sea couldn't basically get completely into where we were. That's the only thing that...

• 17:33Josh Horowitz?

  So the terror on Sandy's face in that movie is actually drawing upon the hurricane that was approaching. That's crazy.

• 17:41Josh Horowitz?

  You are, like, I mean, I think especially early in your career, you were kind of like known as like for your style as opposed to like working with actors. And then over the years, it kind of like dawned on people, this is an actor's director as much as he is a visual master. What makes, what makes Steven an actor's director, would you say?

• 17:58Speaker 05

  I think it's, I think it's the tenderness at which he comes and kind of laser beams right through to the heart of what he wants you to kind of orient yourself towards. And he'll, and the quietness, the intimacy that he comes and just whispers it to you, it's so private. And he also knows when you've got it. So some directors, they keep talking, but he will just see when it, when the notes dropped in on you and you'll go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he'll just walk away. And he just, he just gives you a few, because I think Steven understands you can kind of self-correct in the first three. You kind of feel it when you're like, oh, I wasn't quite how I wanted to do it.

• 18:36Speaker 05

  And I think it's what gives his films and the performances in his films, this wonderful aliveness, this very naturalistic style. He loves improv, he loves anything you, if you want to chuck the kitchen sink at it, he loves that you can, he can always pull it back. There's no straitjacketing.

• 18:55Josh Horowitz?

  Well, that's the miracle of like, again, acting as if you're not in the room. But what he does is like, I mean, I know some films you haven't storyboarded as much, but there are some that demand it, like this one. And to be, to have that plan, but also to be able to be fluid in the moment and embrace the collaborative nature of the art.

• 19:12Speaker 06

  Also, the thing that really was like a pleasant surprise to me is that Steven is with you in the scene. Like, the first time you kind of put a scene on his feet, Steven's in the room with you and you feel that he's right there with you. And then the times where I'd be on set and not in a scene and witnessing how Steven is at the monitor. Like, he's breathing and living every line and, and, and like, one of my core memories from making this movie was, and this happened a couple of times, once with Emily, once with Eve. But Steven would have an idea of what he wanted, you know, and have this conversation with Eve and I. And then just before we're about to go, Steven would say, can, just go and give Eve a hug.

• 19:56Speaker 06

  And I gave her this hug and it was like it unlocked.

• 19:59Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 20:00Speaker 06

  It was extraordinary.

• 20:01Josh Horowitz?

  I thought.

• 20:01Speaker 06

  So it's just a really clear understanding of what we need.

• 20:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 20:06Speaker 06

  And how to support us and make us feel. Cause it's a vulnerable space, performing, full stop. It doesn't matter what, whether it's comedy, if it's drama, if it's kind of low stakes, high.

• 20:16Speaker 05

  It doesn't matter how long you've been doing it.

• 20:18Josh Horowitz?

  Well, how long you've been doing it. Around zero every time, right? You really get that.

• 20:22Speaker 03

  Well, you know, performing, performing is really having to give yourself over to complete trust in yourself, not in your abilities as an actor, but just in the purity of yourself.

• 20:35Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 20:36Speaker 03

  And if you can, and kids do it effortlessly. I've worked with so many child actors and they do it effortlessly. But I've also worked with adult actors who, who are no longer the same as they were.

• 20:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 20:49Speaker 03

  But also are that trusting of themselves that they will actually go into a fugue state and allow the character to make all the choices for them. And it, and, and these guys have this.

• 21:02Josh Horowitz?

  Strip away all that cynicism, all those barriers.

• 21:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. And then, then I feel like I'm, I'm, I'm back, you know, I'm back directing, you know, Drew Barrymore, Henry Thomas, or, or Dakota Fanning, or Christian Bale, you know, in A Pirate of the Sun, uh, when there is, there's nothing but honesty because they haven't, haven't learned to lie about themselves yet.

• 21:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yet, exactly. Um, can we talk about just from a filmmaking standpoint, um, oners for a second? Because like, I mean, I just love, like, I grew up with your films, with De Palma's films, De Palma loves a long oner and you, you're not as necessarily, people don't think of long oners for you. Your oners tend to be like two or three minutes sometimes. And there's an amazing one here featuring Emily.

• 21:44Speaker 03

  That was Emily's idea.

• 21:46Josh Horowitz?

  Is that, is that right? Let's just do it all in one.

• 21:48Speaker 03

  Well, she didn't think I would really do it. What she said was, she says, I know you have a lot of coverage on this, but it would really help me if, if you could just, even if you don't have a camera on me, can we just go through it, just all in one? And, and just let me, like, almost like a rehearsal, if you want to shoot it, great, but I just need to do it from the time I come in. To KCXZ, you know, Channel 4 in Kansas City. To the time I start making, producing these sounds. I just need to see what it feels like. And I, and she told me this the day before. It wasn't the day, we were shooting the day before, so I thought about it that evening. And the next morning I said, guess what? We're shooting this with no coverage.

• 22:22Speaker 05

  It was really exciting. You were like, guess what? We're gonna do it as one. I was like, oh. It was so thrilling for me because you just get this, like, the propulsion of it is, it kind of carries you through. And I genuinely was completely out of breath and panicked by the end.

• 22:39Josh Horowitz?

  Does it always happen in that way? I would imagine some are more preconceived because I think of things like, and that they're seemingly simple to look at. Like, the Jaws oneer on the ferry is more about blocking. Marion scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark is very, like, almost simple, just like changing perspective back and forth.

• 22:57Speaker 03

  It's, I'll tell you what it is. It's trusting the audience to be, to be, to substitute for the film editor.

• 23:03Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 23:04Speaker 03

  Because the audience gets a chance. The same when we go to theater. Theater is all a oneer. For two and a half hours, it's a oneer. But the audience is editing it. The audience is making a choice of who to focus on. Who is the compelling, driving force of the narrative? Who is the one that is in the background, but they're producing an emotion that you suddenly discover yourself? So you give the audience a lot of credit in any performance art that is live. So for me, a oneer, I've never done a oneer to show off.

• 23:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 23:36Speaker 03

  I've never done a oneer just because I'm comparing my wonders to De Palma's wonders. I've never done that before. The oneer always has a reason. And usually it's flow and allowing the audience to make a lot of visual choices of who they want to watch.

• 23:50Josh Horowitz?

  Right, connecting with the appropriate character at the right time. I'm giving that.

• 23:53Speaker 03

  It empowers the audience and makes them feel like they're part of the process.

• 23:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 23:57Speaker 05

  I do think it's where you are singularly extraordinary in that way, that your shots and what you want to convey is not about a cool shot. It's about, how can I make the audience feel the most? That's your prerogative, I think, all the time, is like, how can I fully pull you in? To the heart of this or this moment, this character. It's not about an aesthetic, it's about a feeling.

• 24:21Josh Horowitz?

  Right. In that sequence, and we've all seen in the trailer, you make some very interesting noises.

• 24:28Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 24:28Josh Horowitz?

  Clicking.

• 24:29Speaker 05

  That's just me on a Friday night.

• 24:30Josh Horowitz?

  I was gonna say, that's... What I want is, I want the footage of you in your bathroom practicing alternate sounds.

• 24:37Speaker 05

  No, I have the creepiest voice memos on my phone. Twenty-five different versions, that's all I sent to Steven for ages. That was the only way we communicated.

• 24:47Speaker 03

  Right.

• 24:48Speaker 05

  Was just creepy noises, and he would sort of go through all of them going, "I really like this, this is probably too scary." I'd sing like Barry White, I mean, it was like, we did everything.

• 24:57Speaker 03

  We did, tried everything, and then there was something about the Bushman click language.

• 25:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 25:03Speaker 03

  That Emily produced herself. This is not, this is not advanced through our genius sound designer Gary Reitstrom. Gary Reitstrom was just presented with a lot of options that Emily provided all of us with.

• 25:16Speaker 05

  Just a orchestra of creepy sounds.

• 25:19Josh Horowitz?

  John Williams isn't needed anymore, Emily's just gonna provide the entire... Do you want to do the rest of the interview with those sounds?

• 25:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

• 25:26Speaker 06

  I can translate.

• 25:27Speaker 03

  You can, that's right, that's your gift.

• 25:31Josh Horowitz?

  Is there any point when you're in a Steven Spielberg film where you're like, "Oh wait, I'm doing Spielberg face. I'm in that shot, I'm in that famous push-in, looking up moment."

• 25:41Speaker 05

  What do you think, John?

• 25:42Speaker 06

  There was, I don't know if like, I never thought of it in that way. And the Spielberg face is actually something I've learned on the promotional tour.

• 25:49Speaker 05

  I didn't know what it was. They were like, "Yeah, you get one of those Spielberg faces." I was like, "What is that?"

• 25:54Speaker 06

  I think one of my first interviews on this promotion tour is, someone said, "Can you do the Spielberg face?" And I was like, "I guess." And I did a face and they were like, "That's not it." That's not the Spielberg. So I didn't know about that. But I will say that my first day shooting on the film, I had this extraordinary experience of, it was kind of a pretty straightforward scene, it was just literally me walking through a door into the backlot of this wrestling venue. And there were three blacked-out SUVs, a big beam of light, some mists in the air, and a dripping pipe. And I was like... Oh, I'm gonna spill them. And it was extraordinary and it was almost like, yeah, it was just, you know, I've said before,

• 26:37Speaker 06

  but Steven is the architect of my imagination as a child. And so there is this kind of familiarity and yet like grandeur to it. And it felt epic and I was just in the parking lot.

• 26:55Josh Horowitz?

  Can we categorically say maybe the all time or the trio of Spielberg faces I think of is Jurassic Park? I mean, what Sam, Laura and Jeff are able to do. With all due respect, the CGI is amazing, the animatronics are amazing, but that works because of how they react.

• 27:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, because you wanna believe the dinosaurs have come back and you wanna believe the dinosaurs. And seeing as believing, so ILM Dennis Mirren did an amazing job with the very first, very first digital leading character in the history of movie. This was the first time a leading character, the reason you went to see the film was done on a computer. It had never happened before, but that would have meant nothing without us being able to, because we're not gonna identify with a brachiosar or a T-Rex. We are gonna identify with people who are in danger of being either stomped to death or swallowed whole. And so you go to the, you go to those, those characters and you suddenly have the experience through them. And that's the way it sort of has to be.

• 27:52Speaker 03

  Close Encounters, it was very strange in Close Encounters because we put all the effects in later. Everything had to go in later. So all there was for the 400 extras and the arrival zone of Close Encounters. All they could do was look at numbers that were hanging from huge signs, 85 feet. It was the biggest interior space in America. It was a 1930s dirigible hangar that they used to make blimps in back in the 30s and 40s. But no center post, that's why we chose it. Nothing to keep, it was, it was huge, like two football fields and 90 feet to the top. And we put in numbers for 400 extras. And my job was to yell through a boardroom and call off the numbers.

• 28:37Speaker 03

  And their job was to respond and read the numbers. ...as I was calling them out. And at the same time, they had to act like they were watching something that was-

• 28:45Josh Horowitz?

  That no one has ever seen.

• 28:47Speaker 03

  That no one has ever seen before. And it's really interesting how despite how many times you call things out on numbers, there's always a dozen or so people that are about four numbers behind. And then you gotta go and you gotta do the whole thing over again. We didn't have any video playback in those days. So you had to have everybody watching. Okay, that group was four numbers behind. I mean, it was crazy. And there's no awe. But it showed me that these extras from Mobile, Alabama, were all pretty good actors. Because they supplied the kind of awe that was later joined with this incredible mothership effect that Don Trouble created.

• 29:25Josh Horowitz?

  And it can obviously apply to E.T. as well. I mean, what Henry and Drew do-

• 29:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's easier because these are kids. And a steady distance between an experience and the person is like this. When you get older, the aesthetic distance gets-

• 29:43Josh Horowitz?

  For Drew, Drew might have thought that was an alien, might have thought-

• 29:46Speaker 03

  She believed it. She used to talk to E.T. between takes. When all the operators went off for lunch and I would just hear her talking, go around the corner and Drew's just standing there talking to E.T. who's inert, but just having a complete conversation and pausing long enough to hear the answer that only she can hear in her mind.

• 30:06Speaker 05

  Also, the fact that you shot it practically in sequence so that when he did leave, Drew was completely beside himself.

• 30:12Speaker 03

  They were all wrecked. All the kids were wrecked because their last four days of shooting was the last moments of the movie.

• 30:19Josh Horowitz?

  This has a great ending, and it just reminds you, we're talking about E.T. Can we just say definitively, for my money, E.T. is the greatest ending in film history. What you did with that, and I don't know how much of that is in Melissa Matheson's script or you intuitively knew, there's so little dialogue, it's John Williams' score, it's their faces, it is like 10 or 15 minutes of just like pure, raw emotion. I don't know what my question is except that, like, was that on the page or did you-

• 30:47Speaker 03

  No, I know, that's on the page. That was just all in the shot planning. That result and there were no storyboards for that. That's that all is the stuff you come. I come to work in the morning and it's not even work. I come to experience in the morning with these kids that were having a virtual experience. And and they inspired me to figure out how to put the scene together. And and they were also so fragile and so tender that we had to work really fast before it wore off, you know.

• 31:12Josh Horowitz?

  Um, there's also an amazing train sequence in this film. Not to put you on the couch, Stephen, but trains come up a lot in your films.

• 31:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, I guess they do. The cableman's had a train, but it was only this big.

• 31:24Josh Horowitz?

  But let's get back to Close Encounters. The railroad crossing last Crusade has the amazing opening sequence. War of the Worlds, that flaming train coming across.

• 31:33Speaker 03

  I love trains. What can I tell you? I love trains. I'm of that. I'm of the train generation. We, we, when I was a kid, we only traveled by car and mainly by train. Baltimore and Ohio, connecting where I was born, Cincinnati, and my parents, their parents lived there. We always take trains up and down the East Coast. Trains, too. Yeah, yeah.

• 31:55Josh Horowitz?

  I love being on a train. You, you guys have, I mean, you especially have done some significant action in, in your career, but like being in a sequence like that, what are your memories of being inside of a Steven Spielberg set piece like that?

• 32:06Speaker 06

  I think it was just, I mean, for me, unlike Emily, I haven't done anything like that.

• 32:12Speaker 05

  Josh, tell Josh what you call me.

• 32:14Speaker 06

  Stuntie Bluntie.

• 32:16Speaker 05

  He actually just calls me stuntie now. I don't think he's called me Emily in many meetings.

• 32:23Speaker 06

  A long time.

• 32:24Speaker 03

  Is that kind of like Cockney rhyming slang?

• 32:26Speaker 06

  Yeah, I guess. Oh, yeah, it could be. Yeah, don't do that one. No, for me, it was like, I'd never done anything like that. And there was, there were just a lot of questions. I kept asking Steven, so how do we, will they, will it be moving?

• 32:41Josh Horowitz?

  Is there a chance I will die today?

• 32:42Speaker 06

  I'm like saying. But it was really, there were sort of elements, you know, it was broken up, obviously. But every element felt so thrilling and it is a kind of testament again to, I mean, these things might be normal, again, I don't know, but I think, I imagine, the way Steven works is that it's about creating an environment that feels real so that you can respond in a naturalistic way. And so, everything felt vivid and...

• 33:12Speaker 05

  Including the whiplash of getting rear-ended.

• 33:15Speaker 06

  The whiplash, we do a scene and it was like, and at some point, you're gonna get rear-ended and you were like, great.

• 33:22Speaker 03

  We're like, oh, hard. We're both gonna be in the car when it happens.

• 33:26Josh Horowitz?

  Is it, I mean, you've done so many iconic chase sequences and like, you would think there is just like a certain number in someone's brain and yet somehow you keep, you iterate in a different way. I mean...

• 33:39Speaker 03

  Well, you know, this, because Disclosure Day is a story about a heist.

• 33:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 33:45Speaker 03

  Of eight decades of the proof that UFOs exist and have existed. And so, because the whole premise is about getting away with something, whistleblowers stealing the truth to try to unleash the truth on the world while the powers that be are marching against them and they go after them. And so, it is, there's velocity.

• 34:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 34:08Speaker 03

  But the movie is not just about that. The movie is more human than alien by far because the movie really is a statement about who we are as human beings and who we are to each other and who we have to be more of to each other.

• 34:22Josh Horowitz?

  Well, all of the films you've dealt with, Aliens are essentially, they're not about the aliens. They're about our, how we receive them, how we communicate with them, how we, and this is a movie that, yes, it is an alien movie, but I think people will see that it's really just how we, how would, how could the world react in different ways.

• 34:40Speaker 03

  Yes. And also, what do we have to contribute? I mean, these two characters have tremendous gifts that they're not even aware they possess. And these gifts are traumatizing and shocking and unpleasant for them until especially the Margaret character realizes that she could put these gifts to good use.

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• 36:11Josh Horowitz?

  I know on the press tour, you've been talking obviously a lot about belief, belief in aliens and the revelations, especially in recent years. Is that a conversation like on set too? I would imagine like with just the sheer number of hours, like at what point does that conversation enter the picture?

• 36:26Speaker 05

  I mean, we, but I think because we all went down this collective rabbit hole of watching documentaries and congressional hearings, everything. I think we all just felt very similarly after it. I think everyone just felt there was just such truth to it and such authenticity to people's revelations and their belief systems. And it was so inarguable, I think, to all of us. I don't think we had all gone down the rabbit hole as intensely as we did when we all got this part in a Steven Spielberg movie about aliens. You kind of dive headfirst down there. I'd always believed, I mean, I've always thought it was, it would be insane to imagine that we had scratched the surface of the universe even, you know?

• 37:09Speaker 05

  So why would we assume we're the only intelligent life force?

• 37:12Speaker 03

  Well, because we are so, we are so, as a species.

• 37:17Speaker 03

  A highly intelligent species, we are so self-possessed. And in certain circles, it doesn't leave room for the imagination to, you know, consider life out there.

• 37:30Josh Horowitz?

  Right. Is this, you've talked about how you sadly have not had contact. Is the ulterior motive of making this movie and this press tour to really like send out into the universe like, "Guys, I'm ready, here we go."

• 37:41Speaker 03

  I mean, I feel like with all the work I've done with, here we go with my, with my, with my filmography, but between Close Encounters and E.T. and Men in Black, which I co-produced, and War of the Worlds, and, and all the films, and suddenly, and finally arriving at disclosure date, I even, I haven't even gotten what my agent's gotten out of me, which is 10% of a sighting. My agent gets more out of me than I have ever gotten out of them. I keep waiting. And if they don't make an appearance after this movie, I'm not gonna give up on them, but I'm telling you, I'm not gonna be, when they really land, I'm not gonna be in attendance. No, no, you guys had your shot.

• 38:23Speaker 06

  You had your shot, yeah.

• 38:24Josh Horowitz?

  You've been pretty, outside of War of the Worlds, you've been pretty kind to aliens out there, I would say.

• 38:29Speaker 03

  Because I, because I cannot believe that a, a, a super civilization from maybe millions of light-years from here that have somehow found the secret between the space-time, you know, continuing the, the event horizon.

• 38:43Josh Horowitz?

  Come all this way to be horrible.

• 38:45Speaker 03

  Where they can get here, where they can get here in minutes, not, not in light-years. I, I, I can't believe that they would make that journey.

• 38:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 38:53Speaker 03

  To, to conquer. I think that is something that we project based on our own human history of, of, of power and, and conquering.

• 39:01Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, we've got a bunch of Steven Spielberg fans here, to say the least. Here's a debate that's come up more in recent years, I feel like. Raiders of the Lost Ark or Last Crusade? Do we have a preference?

• 39:13Speaker 03

  Don't leave me out of this one. Let these guys answer that.

• 39:17Speaker 06

  Well, I love them both, but interestingly, and Stephen knows this, I got on a phone call recently with a friend of mine. I have like a film club. And a friend, I got on the phone to a friend of mine, he's a big film buff. And somehow, talking about doing this promotional tour, we just found ourselves in a conversation about our favorite and ranking and doing nonsense. Anyway, then suddenly two of our friends were on the FaceTime. It went on for an hour and a half with full arguments. And one of the arguments was this one, Raiders for me.

• 39:52Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. For the record.

• 39:53Speaker 05

  I'm gonna just be contrary to anything Josh says, so I'm going to say. You wanna even it out?

• 40:01Speaker 06

  Just the other one.

• 40:01Speaker 05

  It's very difficult because Raiders was the first one I saw. And I have this very lasting memory in my childhood home of watching it with my dad and just being blown. My hair was like blown backwards by it. I thought it was so wonderful. I think I'm going to say Last Crusade, there's something about Sean Connery and Harrison and that together. That dynamic was just golden for me. And as much as we all, we find Stephen's breathtaking set pieces so exciting. It's those human moments, the reconciliation between them, the, the humor. And we all recognize those dynamics with family members, you know? We've been there, we know those two.

• 40:43Speaker 05

  And it was just this different gaze on Harrison's characters. I just loved it.

• 40:48Josh Horowitz?

  Another film without belief in a way.

• 40:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's about belief.

• 40:51Speaker 05

  And that.

• 40:52Speaker 03

  The Holy Grail is the reconciliation between father and son.

• 40:56Speaker 05

  That's the Holy Grail. It just was, I, I think probably Last Crusade is the one I've seen the most as well.

• 41:00Speaker 03

  Oh, okay. I'm gonna, I'm gonna contribute to this conversation.

• 41:03Speaker 05

  Go.

• 41:03Speaker 03

  It's not about my favorite of the three or the four. I wouldn't have the life that I'm living right now if I hadn't made two Temple of Doom, because that's where I met King Captra. And that's where my life began.

• 41:15Josh Horowitz?

  I will say for the record, the opening sequence of Temple of Doom, I mean, opening Raiders, iconic, and, and all of them. Temple Doom's opening is maybe my favorite of all time.

• 41:24Speaker 03

  Oh, great, thank you.

• 41:26Josh Horowitz?

  Harrison put on a white tuxedo. What more do we need?

• 41:28Speaker 03

  With a red rose.

• 41:29Josh Horowitz?

  That's right. I'm guessing, I mean, outside the indie films and Lost world, you've never been like a sequel guy, generally speaking.

• 41:38Speaker 03

  No, like, no, I mean, I've resisted a lot of big, successful movies to create franchises from them. And I'm lucky that Universal went along with it, you know, because ET, by popular demand, I just didn't want, I thought it was the perfect ending and I didn't want to risk the reputation of the first film by making a good but inferior second film.

• 42:03Josh Horowitz?

  Is that kind of a lesson on, I guess Jaws was out of your hands, obviously.

• 42:06Speaker 03

  I was not in control of Jaws, but they offered me, you know, the whole franchise and I said, I'm done. After that first one, I'm done. But also, I didn't think, I kept saying, fellows, we blew the shark up. Where are you gonna get another 26 foot? People hardly bought into the fact that the shark was as big as it was in Jaws, but they did buy into it. And it was not mythology, it was science. And it was a sea hunt movie, it was a big grand adventure of survival. Where are you gonna get another 26 foot long shark? And they said to me, well, we're gonna build one. And I said, you got a credibility gap problem. So I didn't get involved in that.

• 42:45Josh Horowitz?

  In those ensuing years, because like virtually every one of your films could demand, like by Hollywood standards, a sequel, have you actively had to kind of protect like ET, Jaws, Indiana Jones reboots? Like, I mean, are you in control of all those things?

• 43:00Speaker 03

  I am, I'm in control of Indiana Jones with George Lucas and I'm certainly in control of reboots of everything post ET. But not ET, because I didn't, I didn't have the clout to... If Universal wanted to, they could go ahead and make ET without me.

• 43:14Josh Horowitz?

  Well, that's showing them, you a lot of respect that they have resisted that.

• 43:16Speaker 03

  It shows a lot of respect that they're not doing that, but they could if they wanted to.

• 43:21Josh Horowitz?

  So, a lot of your films involve obsessive characters. These two characters, I would say, are obsessive in their own way. Is, in the best possible way, would you call Steven an obsessive?

• 43:30Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 43:32Speaker 03

  In the best possible way.

• 43:33Speaker 05

  In a relentless pursuit to create something extraordinary, he's obsessive, but I think that that's what you want. I want someone who's leading us through us. You want your director to sweat the small stuff. That's the thing. But for Stephen, I've never known anything like it. He would be up all night.

• 43:52Speaker 03

  Texting.

• 43:53Speaker 05

  Texting. And I would wake up sort of groggy at 6 a.m.

• 43:57Speaker 03

  You'd see the time.

• 43:58Speaker 05

  3 a.m. He was up chasing around. And then you feel like you're not working hard enough. Stephen's doing this.

• 44:06Speaker 03

  I didn't sleep very much on this last one. Not at all.

• 44:08Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, we alluded to this earlier, that that's remarkable and wonderful to me that you all are, you know, again, having accomplished what you've done, like, it is ground zero in each one. It's starting from scratch. Nothing is assumed. Yeah, you can maybe get people in the theater, but to keep them in the theater and engaged, you have to deliver the goods. Do you feel relief after? At what point do you feel relief? Is it like when you've cut the last day?

• 44:32Speaker 03

  No, I feel sadness and I start mourning the loss of my friends. I mean, I don't make friends on every movie. I make acquaintances. And some of them are very valuable to me and I admire almost everyone I've ever worked with. But I don't come out of every movie with abiding friendships. And I came out of this film with deep friendships. And I just had these guys and Coleman and Eve and Colin and Wyatt. And it's just, and we are always texting each other and we will continue to do that. We have a chain of six, don't we?

• 45:07Speaker 06

  And it kicks off, like it gets really funny.

• 45:12Speaker 05

  And there's 26 messages you've missed and you're like, oh my God, what have I missed?

• 45:16Speaker 06

  And you start off sincere and within like an hour it's canceled.

• 45:20Speaker 05

  We're abusing Colin.

• 45:23Josh Horowitz?

  Is he on the thread?

• 45:25Speaker 03

  Colin gives back.

• 45:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, he does. He does occasionally. But he's just, he's abused on this text, Jamie, he really is.

• 45:33Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, Stephen, how engaged are you like in, I mean, there are probably a billion memes from your films and just gifs and all that sort of stuff. And like, no one has contributed more to pop culture. In a myriad of ways than your films. Um, I would imagine it just all seeps in, like you don't have to seek it out. It just kind of like comes to you.

• 45:51Speaker 03

  Here's what I feel i- in terms of all of that. If I, if I retired and stopped making films and producing films and just went off to Tahiti, where I have actually been six times when they started talking about me in this podcast. I had to start on Tahiti. The last one was Bora Bora, which was even pretty.

• 46:10Josh Horowitz?

  Oh.

• 46:12Speaker 03

  But, but if I should do that, that's when I think all of this stuff would seep in.

• 46:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:17Speaker 03

  But I don't, I don't want to stop and I love what I do and I love raising my family and my, and, and helping in the raising of my grandchildren. That's my primary, uh, uh, uh, work in this life right now. But the close second to that is being able to tell a good story and, and, and until I stop telling stories, I can't even consider what it would be like for me to really take in the last 61 years or however long it's been.

• 46:45Speaker 05

  I don't think you ever will.

• 46:46Speaker 03

  You know, and I have, I have a good filter system.

• 46:48Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 46:48Speaker 03

  So it doesn't go to my head.

• 46:49Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 46:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:50Speaker 05

  You, you.

• 46:51Josh Horowitz?

  It's like the shark, it keeps moving, you can't stop.

• 46:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, a little bit like that, a little bit, also I can't stop eating. So that's the, that's the film club.

• 46:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, we're.

• 47:00Josh Horowitz?

  An eating machine. Uh, since this is a rare opportunity, these are some of the questions I've always wanted to ask Stephen Steele, where you guys can weigh into, some of these are appropriate for all. Um, Stephen, did Elliot ever see ET again?

• 47:12Speaker 03

  No, never saw him again. But he did a few about him. So there was, there was a psychic link between the two of them. If you should notice that ET touched Elliot right here and said, "I'll be right here." He touched him there and that, that.

• 47:29Speaker 05

  Tricky moment when you die.

• 47:31Speaker 03

  That is for the rest of Elliot's life.

• 47:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, thank you for clocking that, Emily. Yeah, I know, right? Did that just happen?

• 47:37Speaker 05

  I think, I think you just cried a little bit, or is it did not?

• 47:40Josh Horowitz?

  Definitely. Can we have a second class? I retire. Um, did Roy Neary ever come back?

• 47:46Speaker 03

  Did Roy Neary ever come back? Yeah, because the, the exchange that took place at the beginning, when these, uh, characters come out of the mothership and they're all dressed in period garb, from the 18th century, from the 19th century, even my dog comes flying down the Mylar ramp. That was my dog, Elmer. Um, yeah, that was Elmer. Uh, and then, and then of course, Carey Guffey comes back, Barry Geller, little kid, little boy, amazing little kid. He was like three and a half, four when he made that movie. Um, so yes, he will come back. But he's not, he's, he's not gonna come back to, to his family.

• 48:24Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 48:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:25Josh Horowitz?

  I was, I watched Close Encounters yet again the other day, and an emotional moment that hit me that was surprising, again, not a question here, but just to say it, is Francois Truffaut's moment where he's communicating via the hand signals to the aliens at the very end. And it's just, Francois's performance at that always is remarkable.

• 48:41Speaker 03

  Oh, well, he, he's a, he's, he was a remarkable, look, beside, beside the fact he's one of the most remarkable filmmakers we've ever had, who had the honor of experiencing, his art was, was just, it just moved mountains culturally. Um, Francois was a very nice guy, and he was a really good actor. And when I saw Wild Child, I started thinking of him to be in this movie, but I didn't have the courage to call him, so I started casting other French actors or interviewing other actors to play Monsieur Lacombe. Oh, yeah, I, I interviewed Trentin-Yon, I interviewed Despardu, I interviewed a lot of big French actors who were just starting out, some of them were just, right, some of them were already movie stars.

• 49:23Speaker 03

  Um, and, uh, and I, and I was about to make an offer to an actor, Trentin-Yon, and I said, "I'm gonna just try to get ahold of Francois, just to see if he would at least read the script." And he, he, I didn't talk to him, but his agent agreed to give him the script. Wow. And then I got a telegram, remember those days, 1976, I got a telegram from Pont-Ra-Truffaut, and it simply said, "Dear Mr. Spielberg, where do I report for wardrobe fittings?" Oh. And that's how he told me he was gonna do the movie.

• 49:56Josh Horowitz?

  That's as great a communication as ever. Okay, last few things, I promise, for you. Uh, this is more rumor control that I've always heard over the years. Did Harrison Ford turn down playing Alan Grant in Jurassic Park?

• 50:06Speaker 03

  Yes, he did. He may not remember that, but I sure do.

• 50:11Speaker 05

  You crossed with him.

• 50:12Speaker 03

  I wasn't crossed, I was crushed. Oh. But then Sam Neill came, available, and

• 50:19Speaker 06

  Unbelievable.

• 50:19Speaker 03

  And he's Alan Grant, but it now belongs to him.

• 50:22Speaker 06

  You can't imagine anyone else now.

• 50:24Josh Horowitz?

  Of course. Belloc swallowing the fly in Raiders of the Lost Ark?

• 50:27Speaker 03

  I saw it in the editing room. I discovered it in the editing room, and we had no other takes. It was one take. I would have used another take, because once I saw it, I couldn't unsee it. The audience, too.

• 50:41Josh Horowitz?

  You pitched yourself to direct James Bond at least twice?

• 50:43Speaker 03

  Twice, to Cubby Broccoli himself.

• 50:45Josh Horowitz?

  Come close?

• 50:46Speaker 03

  No, he turned me down twice, yeah.

• 50:48Josh Horowitz?

  What?

• 50:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:51Speaker 03

  That cannot be true. It's true, he turned me down on the telephone twice. I don't know, he just said, "We have our own, we have our own stable of directors we go to." And I asked him after Jaws, and I thought that, the success of Jaws, it didn't faze him. Then I asked him again after Close Encounters, and he said no. And the third time, he called me, and he said, "I'm making a film called Moonraker. In honor of your film, Close Encounters, you want to use the five notes, the Johnny Williams

• 51:21Speaker 03

  Did you talk to take your life? No, I didn't.

• 51:23Josh Horowitz?

  Sorry, busy.

• 51:24Speaker 03

  You know, when Bond, when someone presses a key lock, you know, they'll make those tones. And I said, "I'll make you a deal. I will give you the five notes if I can do the next Bond film." And he said, "We don't need the notes that bad."

• 51:39Speaker 03

  But I gave him the notes anyway.

• 51:41Josh Horowitz?

  The good news is, if you had done Bond, maybe there's no Indiana Jones, frankly.

• 51:44Speaker 03

  That's right, that's right, exactly.

• 51:46Josh Horowitz?

  George Lucas asked you to direct Return of the Jedi, but there was a

• 51:49Speaker 03

  No, he never did. Oh, now there's never offered Return of the Jedi, ever. No, never.

• 51:54Josh Horowitz?

  Is it true you nearly directed Harry Potter and imagined it as an animated film?

• 51:57Speaker 03

  I developed it, I developed it with Steve Clovis. I mean, I developed the second draft with Steve, trying to turn it into something that I was interested in directing. And I cast, at least I proposed, I had just worked with Maggie Smith on Hook. So I proposed Maggie Smith. I knew Richard Harris, he was a friend of mine a long time ago. I put him in the movie, and Robbie Coltrane.

• 52:20Josh Horowitz?

  So we can thank you for those.

• 52:22Speaker 03

  No, that was it. But then I got out of the movie for personal reasons.

• 52:25Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 52:25Speaker 03

  And no anger, no, no big controversy. I stepped out. And, um, and then my protege, Chris Columbus, stepped in and made two great Harry Potter films.

• 52:34Speaker 05

  He really did.

• 52:35Speaker 03

  He really did.

• 52:35Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing. Um, all right, we're gonna end with this. Emily, you've done this with me before. The happily sad, confused, profoundly random questions. This is for all of you. Anybody can jump in.

• 52:44Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 52:44Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, here we go. Dogs or cats?

• 52:47Speaker 06

  Dogs.

• 52:47Speaker 05

  Dogs. I'm allergic to cats.

• 52:50Josh Horowitz?

  We're all dog people, I believe, right?

• 52:51Speaker 06

  Dogs.

• 52:52Josh Horowitz?

  Dogs. Uh, what does anybody here collect? What do you count as a collection?

• 52:57Speaker 05

  Go on, Josh, yours is dorky, I can tell. Why is it? Go ahead.

• 53:00Speaker 06

  No, ceramics. I collect ceramics.

• 53:04Speaker 03

  Ceramic. You're in a safe place.

• 53:06Speaker 05

  But you make beautiful ceramics.

• 53:08Speaker 06

  But I mostly collect.

• 53:09Speaker 05

  You would have been so impressed. My daughter brought home, she made a, out of porcelain, a Fennec Fox. Curled up, white porcelain. I'm gonna take a picture and send it to you. I was like, Violet, that is a triumph. It was so fabulous.

• 53:22Josh Horowitz?

  Josh will be very impressed.

• 53:24Speaker 05

  I'm gonna send you a picture, but it was really amazing.

• 53:26Josh Horowitz?

  Stuntie, what do you, what do you collect?

• 53:27Speaker 05

  Stuntie collects, um, I mean, it's really tragic. It's very boring. I have more sneakers than is humanly possible for a closet to hold. I'm obsessed with sneakers.

• 53:38Josh Horowitz?

  I would imagine the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark, that's your archive of everything, like?

• 53:42Speaker 03

  Well, I, I think, I think between films, I collect dust.

• 53:49Speaker 03

  I don't have a big collection of anything.

• 53:51Josh Horowitz?

  Favorite video game?

• 53:52Speaker 03

  Archive, yeah.

• 53:52Josh Horowitz?

  Favorite video game of all time?

• 53:54Speaker 05

  I only know how to play Mario Kart. I mean, I don't see anything I know how to do.

• 53:59Speaker 06

  Goldeneye?

• 54:00Josh Horowitz?

  People always love Goldeneye.

• 54:01Speaker 06

  N C S is a classic.

• 54:02Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Or, uh, Red Dead Redemption 2.

• 54:07Speaker 03

  Kind of.

• 54:08Josh Horowitz?

  Is that right?

• 54:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:09Speaker 06

  For the fishing.

• 54:10Josh Horowitz?

  For the fishing, yeah. Uh, Coin Op, Space Invaders. Classic. Can't go wrong. What's the wallpaper on anybody's phone? Anybody wanna divulge what's the background on their phone?

• 54:20Speaker 05

  My children, from when they were really little.

• 54:24Speaker 06

  I don't remember.

• 54:26Josh Horowitz?

  That's okay.

• 54:27Speaker 06

  Probably not.

• 54:28Josh Horowitz?

  I usually ask what's the worst noted director has ever given you. You guys are welcome to say that. That obviously doesn't apply to you. What's the, is there a direction you've given that you've regretted over the years? Or what's your most common direction?

• 54:37Speaker 03

  I'm sure there's a number of.

• 54:38Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 54:39Speaker 03

  But I don't remember any of them. I blocked them.

• 54:42Josh Horowitz?

  What's the worst noted director's ever given you, Josh?

• 54:45Speaker 06

  I don't think I've, I don't think really thought so. I don't think I've had bad notes.

• 54:49Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 54:50Speaker 06

  It's mostly.

• 54:51Speaker 03

  Well, you're young.

• 54:53Josh Horowitz?

  Just getting started, man. All right. Finally, in the spirit of happy, say confused. An actor who makes you happy. You see them on screen, you're immediately in a.

• 55:00Speaker 05

  Tom Domingo.

• 55:02Speaker 06

  A hundred percent.

• 55:03Speaker 05

  Tom Domingo makes me, Emma Stone makes me happy.

• 55:07Speaker 06

  For me, G. Wilder. I just have to see G. Wilder's face and I'm like.

• 55:12Speaker 03

  Danny Kaye.

• 55:13Josh Horowitz?

  Love it. Love it. A movie that makes you sad?

• 55:19Speaker 05

  E.T.

• 55:23Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, E.T.

• 55:24Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Steven, what makes you sad, a movie?

• 55:26Speaker 03

  Uh, the best years of our lives.

• 55:29Josh Horowitz?

  And finally, for all of you, a food that makes you confused. You don't get it. Why do people eat that?

• 55:35Speaker 06

  Mine's not a food, but Nespresso pods. I do not, I can't get my head around them.

• 55:41Speaker 05

  Really? Do you not like the taste of the coffee?

• 55:44Speaker 06

  No, and I don't understand why we just don't make coffee like.

• 55:47Josh Horowitz?

  Right. We know how to do it, guys.

• 55:49Speaker 06

  This is.

• 55:49Josh Horowitz?

  We did it for ages.

• 55:50Speaker 05

  It's immediacy, which you don't like. You're a man of pace, I realize.

• 55:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 55:55Speaker 05

  This is why you're happy in a gun. Thank you.

• 55:59Josh Horowitz?

  Anybody else? Food?

• 56:00Speaker 05

  I'm a bit confused by beetroot. I'm, I'm not, I'm not about them. She says looking like one.

• 56:08Josh Horowitz?

  That's how you're working it out today.

• 56:12Speaker 03

  Tempeh.

• 56:13Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 56:14Josh Horowitz?

  What's the point? What are you doing here in pay?

• 56:17Speaker 03

  Tempeh, what is it?

• 56:18Speaker 05

  Is it, it's, it's a manufactured food, isn't it?

• 56:22Speaker 03

  What is it? It's in health food restaurants, but why?

• 56:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. This is, Steven's next film is investigating what's up with tempeh, guys.

• 56:29Speaker 03

  It's gonna be, exactly. It's gonna be called, you know, Indiana Jones and Raiders of the Last Tempeh.

• 56:34Josh Horowitz?

  The search for tempeh. I tried to suppress my inner geek. Emily, how did I do? I feel like it was too much.

• 56:41Speaker 04

  You did very well.

• 56:42Speaker 03

  It was great.

• 56:43Speaker 04

  I felt you were actually very quiet.

• 56:45Speaker 03

  I was entertained.

• 56:46Speaker 04

  Normally you're kind of...

• 56:47Speaker 03

  I was so entertained by this.

• 56:48Speaker 04

  There's a bit more swagger to you, Josh, but you were a bit like humbled.

• 56:51Josh Horowitz?

  No one has ever said swagger in the Josh Horowitz segment. Congratulations to all of you on Disclosure Day. It's a remarkable piece of work. And Stephen, honestly, on behalf of literally millions of people, thank you for contributing so much to my childhood, my career, my love of storytelling. Thank you, sir.

• 57:07Speaker 03

  Oh, thank you for saying that. Thank you, Josh.

• 57:10Speaker 06

  We did it.

• 57:10Speaker 04

  Great, inner geek.

• 57:12Speaker 03

  That was really funny.

• 57:13Josh Horowitz?

  Was that okay?

• 57:13Speaker 03

  That was better than that. That was so good.

• 57:16Josh Horowitz?

  Of course you can keep that.

• 57:17Speaker 03

  You get to take that.

• 57:18Speaker 06

  I can't believe it.

• 57:20Speaker 04

  It's fantastic.

• 57:21Speaker 06

  Pretty much that whole interview, I've been thinking about this. But what do you think? Will you put sandwiches in it? Yeah.

• 57:30Speaker 04

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't... Should do this by Josh.

• 57:49Speaker 04

  From the parents behind Law & Order comes a mystery the whole family can enjoy. Patrick Picklebottom: Everyday Mysteries. Step into the whimsical world of Patrick Picklebottom, a precocious 11-year-old with a love for reading and an uncanny ability to solve mysteries. Inspired by the beloved children's book of the same name, this podcast vividly brings Patrick's tales of deduction and everyday adventures to life as he unravels baffling enigmas and solves clever cases. Patrick Picklebottom: Everyday Mysteries is perfect for kids and is just as entertaining for grownups who love a good mystery. The whole family can listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.