NASCAR Driver Leilani Münter Is Racing For The Planet

If you want provoke change — real change – it's imperative to take a stand outside the echo chamber of the converted. That's the ethos of professional race car driver and environmental activist Leilani Münter. Named one of the top ten female race car drivers in the world by Sports Illustrated, Leilani races in NASCAR's ARCA Series and is the fourth woman in history to race in the Indy Pro Series (the development league of IndyCar). She has logged impressive performances at both Daytona and Talladega and set the record for the highest finish for a female driver in the history of the Texas Motor Speedway when she finished fourth in 2006. But what’s most intriguing about Leilani — beyond the inherent intrigue of being one of the only female drivers in her sport — is her singular commitment to leveraging her profile to educate, inspire and raise awareness around environmental issues. Winning isn't everything. Change is the goal. Putting her money where her mouth is, Leilani has foregone traditional sponsorship opportunities to race cars draped in oversized logos promoting the documentaries The Cove and Blackfish. At Daytona in February 2017, she raced a car displaying Vegan Powered bills across the hood and sides. And since 2007, she adopts one acre of rainforest for every race she runs. Leilani has presented before the UN in Geneva in 2015 and has appeared on Capitol Hill to speak on behalf of clean energy legislation. In addition, she was one of the first activists to arrive at the 2010 Gulf oil disaster and traveled to Taiji, Japan three times to document the dolphin slaughter depicted in the Academy Award winning documentary The Cove. She sits on board of the Oceanic Preservation Society and on the advisory board of The Solutions Project, a nonprofit dedicated to accelerating the transition to 100 percent renewable energy. Leilani appears in the 2015 documentary Racing Extinction and her accomplishments have been profiled in USA Today, Italian Vogue, The New York Times, The Washington Post, Reader's Digest, Esquire, and Newsweek. Discovery’s Planet Green named Münter the No. 1 eco-athlete in the world, she is a recipient of ELLE Magazine's 2012 Genius
Award, and Glamour Magazine named her an “Eco Hero.” This conversation explores Leilani's upbringing, what motivated her to become a race car driver, and what its like to be one of the only females in her male dominated sport. It's a discussion about the intersection of activism and sport — how Leilani infuses performance with her strident commitment to principles. But mostly this is a conversation about the why behind Leilani's drive. A strong, powerful female role model committed to positively impacting culture, shifting consumer habits and catalyzing beneficial environmental policy change, I aspire to her level of dedication to a better world. As Leilani is fond of saying, never underestimate a vegan hippie chick with a race car. After this conversation, you won't either. I love this exchange and sincerely hope you do too. Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 0:44Rich Roll?

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• 1:05Speaker 01

  I just really feel strongly that I want to race, but I'm not gonna sell my soul so that I can race. It's not that important to me, whereas the causes to me, these are the most important challenges that the human race has ever faced. I mean, we're living through the six mass extinction of species. We're killing off plants and animals at a rate that's like a thousand times faster than the normal natural background rate. Ocean acidification, climate change, all of these things, this is too big to ignore. I mean, all of us have to try and become part of the solution, and that includes NASCAR fans and, you know, fans of every sport. We can't just be talking to our friends. They're harder conversations to have, right?

• 1:48Speaker 01

  It's hard to sit and talk to somebody who you know coming to the table is on the other side of you and doesn't agree with what you're saying. But that's how you eventually change people.

• 2:00Rich Roll?

  That's Leilani Munter, this week, on the Rich Roll Podcast.

• 2:15Rich Roll?

  The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey everybody. How you guys doing? What's happening? My name is Rich Roll. I am your host. Welcome to my podcast, the show where each week I delve deep with some of the most inspiring and compelling thought leaders I can find across all categories of health, fitness, athletic performance, medicine, entrepreneurship, spirituality, creativity, you get the idea. Really appreciate you guys tuning in today for subscribing, for sharing the show with your friends, for leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, for supporting my work via Patreon. Really happy and grateful, mostly grateful, to have your attention here today. Got a super interesting show for you. Today, I sit down with the super cool professional

• 2:58Rich Roll?

  race car driver, passionate vegan, and environmental activist, Leilani Muntur. So, who is this person? Leilani has been racing in the ARCA Series, which is a development league of NASCAR. Leilani is the fourth woman in history to race in the Indy Pro Series, which is the development league of IndyCar. She set the record for the highest finish for a female driver in the history of the Texas Motor Speedway when she finished fourth in 2006, and Sports Illustrated named her one of the top 10 female race car drivers in the world. But what's really interesting about Leilani, beyond the inherently intriguing appeal of being one of only a few female NASCAR drivers, is that for her, racing,

• 3:41Rich Roll?

  or winning, or performance, really take a backseat to using her profile, and specifically her car, her race car, as a means to spread the things that she's passionate about, environmental awareness. And she really puts her money where her mouth is. She was one of the first activists to arrive at the 2010 Gulf oil disaster. She's been to Tajji, Japan, three times to document the dolphin slaughter depicted in the Academy Award-winning documentary, The Cove. She has spoken at the UN in Geneva in 2015. On numerous occasions, she has appeared on Capitol Hill to speak on behalf of clean energy legislation. And since 2007, for every race she runs, she adopts one acre of rainforest. So that's pretty cool. She sits on the board

• 4:26Rich Roll?

  of the Oceanic Preservation Society and on the advisory board of the Solutions Project, which is a nonprofit dedicated to accelerating the transition to 100% renewable energy. Her accomplishments have been profiled in USA Today, Italian Vogue, The New York Times, Washington Post, Reader's Digest, Esquire, Newsweek. You get the idea. Many, many more. Discovery's Planet Green named her the number one eco-athlete in the world, and she is a recipient of Elle Magazine's 2012 Genius Award, and also Glamour Magazine named her an eco-hero. Many of you might know Leilani from the 2015 documentary Racing Extinction

• 5:08Rich Roll?

  that was made by the filmmakers behind The Cove, which won the Academy Award. Leilani appears in that film, Racing Extinction. If you haven't seen it, you should check it out. And if all of that isn't enough for you, Leilani's brother-in-law is Grateful Dead guitarist and singer Bob Weir. So that in and of itself is kind of amazing. Got a few more notable things I want to say about Leilani and this podcast, the episode coming up.

• 5:39Rich Roll?

  All right. Today's show. You know who else is great? Leilani is great. She's just a super-strong, powerful female role model, and so much more than meets the eye. So much more than just a racecar driver. So in this conversation, we of course discuss her upbringing, what motivated her, what led her to become a racecar driver, what it's like to be a female racecar driver in a male-dominated sport, essentially what it means to kind of buck the NASCAR stereotype. We talk about how she incorporates her vegan lifestyle and her environmental activism into the NASCAR subculture. But mostly, this

• 6:19Rich Roll?

  is a discussion about her why, which, again, is less about performance, it's less about winning races, and much more, if not almost entirely, about her activism, essentially, or specifically, I should say, environmental preservation.

• 6:37Rich Roll?

  As Lee Lonnie is fond of saying, "Never underestimate a vegan hippie chick with a race car." And after listening to this conversation, I'm sure you will agree. So let's talk to her.

• 6:56Rich Roll?

  Never underestimate a vegan hippie chick in a race car. That's the tagline, right?

• 7:03Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 7:04Rich Roll?

  Where did you come up with that?

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Uh, I think, um, I mean, I've, I've used it for ages. I've probably used, used that line as vegetarian before because I, I went vegan almost six years ago now. So it used to be never underestimate a vegetarian hippie chick with a race car. And then, um, five and a half years ago, almost six years ago now, I went vegan and so I changed it. And, uh, I think, you know, people are just, I'm kind of an oddball in the racing world, right? Like, I'm very liberal. I come from a science background. I'm vegan. Um,

• 7:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean-

• 7:41Speaker 01

  I'm fighting for things that other people in the racing world are not. So I'm kind of-

• 7:44Rich Roll?

  I think that's an understatement. You know, you are definitely confusing in the world in which you habitate, right? I mean, it's super interesting to, and, and everything that has happened since, that was like 2011 when you went vegan, right?

• 7:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:58Rich Roll?

  So many things have happened in your life since then. I mean, it's crazy how, not just the vegan movement has exploded, but the kind of awareness around the activism that you've done because of the world in which you live, uh, has sent ripple effects out in a really powerful way. It's, it's been really cool to kind of watch this happen from afar. And I'm surprised that we've never actually met in person. So I'm really glad to be sitting down with you today.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's really great to be here.

• 8:26Rich Roll?

  It's cool. So the most, I mean, probably the most recent, you know, big thing that occurred was you racing Daytona in the, in the vegan powered car, right?

• 8:35Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 8:36Rich Roll?

  That was in February.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  That was in February. I'd been working on the vegan car for years. I mean, really right after I went vegan. Um, and even when I was vegetarian, I was trying to talk to, you know, the meat substitutes, the, the vegan cheeses, those kinds of companies.

• 8:54Rich Roll?

  They don't, they don't have the, the marketing budget for a NASCAR advertisement buy, do they?

• 9:00Speaker 01

  Well, some of them do. Now some of them do.

• 9:03Rich Roll?

  What does it usually cost to get those stickers on those? I mean, every inch of those cars is covered.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. So for me to run the big tracks like Daytona, and I'm actually coming back in the vegan powered car at Talladega on May 5th.

• 9:16Rich Roll?

  Oh, that's exciting.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  Um, those, those bigger races are about a hundred thousand dollars, uh, for the race car, um, to run the race car. And then on top of that, we didn't just do the race car. I felt like it was a really important part. And sort of the goal of the campaign was to get vegan food into the race fans mouths.

• 9:36Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  And, um, so we didn't just do the race car. So we about doubled the cost to 200,000 because we had a tent with vegan food. Um, I had Jason Stefanco from, uh, from Gardein, the chef from Gardein out there. He was cooking vegan food and we were giving away free samples to the fans.

• 9:53Rich Roll?

  You had, uh, like Robert Cheek and David Carter were there too.

• 9:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 9:57Rich Roll?

  You invited me. Thank you for inviting me. I couldn't make it out there. I wish I could have gone. It must've been so cool.

• 10:02Speaker 01

  It was so cool. Maybe you could come to Talladega.

• 10:04Rich Roll?

  I'll look into it.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  It's on Friday, May 5th. And, um, you know, the reaction from the race fans was amazing. We, we obviously brought the kind of food that you would normally find at the racetrack. So we had like vegan chicken wings, uh, vegan tenders that were, you know, being dipped in follow your heart ranch dressing. Um, and we had vegan meatballs and I mean, just over and over all day long. All I heard was, I can't believe this is vegan. How do they do that? And then the second question that they would ask is, um, where can I buy this? And so it was really great to be able to tell them, you know, Walmart, Target, you can find this anywhere. Any grocery store carries this stuff. So that's for it to be so accessible to them.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  And, and I think one of the things that really resonated, you know, I am vegan for animal rights and environmental reasons. I'm definitely not like. You know, I'm not a junk food person, but I definitely eat like vegan macaroni and cheese.

• 11:06Rich Roll?

  You like the McNuggets and the.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  I do, yeah, yeah. So I'm not like a super, super healthy vegan. I'm sure I do kale and quinoa and things like that too. But I definitely like the, you know, the vegan sort of junk food. And um, so I don't really talk a ton about the health side of it, just because that wasn't the thing that that had reached me. It was, it was for the animals and for the planet. Um, but when we were with the race fans, we just, you know, a lot of people are trying to lose weight and they're unhealthy and they're at risk of diabetes and heart disease and all of these problems. Um, that a plant-based diet can be a really big part of the solution. So when we were handing, you know, we had thousands of fans there, but when we were handing them the sample, I would say, you know,

• 11:50Speaker 01

  half the calories, half the fat, all the protein, zero cholesterol. And I was seeing, you know, husbands and wives looking at each other and, you know, families telling me, oh, we have a lot of diabetes in our family or we have heart disease and he's already had a heart attack. And I think the, the health message actually really, really resonated with the fans. Um, especially at the track where, you know, you're eating junk food. It's like pizza and french fries.

• 12:16Rich Roll?

  Yeah, of course, right? So did you have, you had like a tent set up in the, in the middle of the track? Like in the, that, what do you call it? The infield, like?

• 12:23Speaker 01

  It wasn't in the infield. It was actually outside, which is even better because you got everybody as they were going in. So it's right at the entrance to the race track. So there's all kinds of tents set up and we had a duplicate of my vegan powered race car. Um, so that brings a lot of people in and, you know, little kids could get into my race car and take pictures of them behind the wheel. Um, and uh, yeah, we just gave a raise so many, so many samples and it was, I never heard a negative reaction. There wasn't a single person that took a bite and didn't like it. Everybody was surprised and shocked. You know, and it was, it was, it was really fun because I was, you know, I was talking to guys that are, were like wearing camouflage and,

• 13:04Speaker 01

  you know, are hunters and NASCAR fans and they're standing there looking at me saying, this is amazing vegan food. Like where can I buy this? And that's, I think, that's really powerful, right? If you want to change something, you have to get outside of the box and talk to people that don't agree with you and are not on board. If you're a vegan. Company or a vegan activist and you're just going around to conferences with other vegans. Or, you know, in my environmental world, a lot of time.

• 13:33Rich Roll?

  Yeah, the echo chamber.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:35Rich Roll?

  The echo chamber. I mean, that's, that's one of the things about what's so powerful about what you do. Because it's so outside the box of the typical, you know, vegan, animal rights, you know, environmentally conscious, you know, person that you're going to meet walking down the street in Venice or in Tribeca. You know, I mean, like, this is middle America. These are average, everyday people. This is most of the people in the United States. I mean, we're talking about uh, the second largest sport in America, right? Like, how many people watch NASCAR? It's like a forty-five billion dollar industry?

• 14:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, millions and millions of people watch. And, um, I mean, that's the same reason that I'm bringing the, the environmental message there too, is because I go to all of these clean energy events and, you know, documentaries that are raising awareness about this stuff. But if I want to change something and I want the race fans to see it, I can't expect them to show up at a clean energy conference. Or like, you know, some environmental film festival. That's not, that's not what they're interested in.

• 14:40Rich Roll?

  And they're at NASCAR.

• 14:41Speaker 01

  Right, right. So with, um, with both the Cove and, um, Blackfish, what we did was, um, I did crowdfunding and raised the funds to, to get the Cove car on the track at Daytona. And then the Blackfish car was at Talladega.

• 14:54Rich Roll?

  And that was, that was Sam Simon, right?

• 14:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, almost all of it. So we, we tried to do crowdfunding and I had raised a little bit, like seventy-five hundred bucks or something. And then Sam swooped in and sort of saved, saved the day and covered the rest of the cost. And, um, and we brought DVDs and we gave away DVDs of, of the Cove and Blackfish to the fans. So when they, when you do the autograph signings and they normally just get, you know, a picture of the driver with the car and it's a little promo thing for them to take home. We were also handing them a DVD of the film. Um, and so, uh, there was this sort of similar concept with the vegan car was to, you know, put the vegan food in their mouths and kind of just change their mind with them being able to taste it. Cause I honestly think a lot of people that

• 15:40Speaker 01

  aren't vegan, hear the word vegan and they immediately think. That I live off of salad and quinoa and kale and carrots and it's all super healthy and I'm not gonna like it and it's not what I grew up eating, it's not the comfort foods that I love. And I'm standing there just saying, no, you can have vegan macaroni and cheese and vegan ice cream and everything that you can possibly crave, there is a vegan version of it. I just had in, um, I was in Tokyo and I had a vegan cheese fondue at a restaurant. So, anything that you want is now out there. So if you can have all the flavors and you can have all the taste, um, you're not giving up or sacrificing anything

• 16:24Speaker 01

  and it's, you know, with all the benefits that we, we know for the planet, for the animals, for your own health, it just doesn't make any sense. There are no excuses left to not eat plant-based, especially here in LA where you guys have so many amazing vegan

• 16:40Rich Roll?

  restaurants. You're preaching to my echo chamber right now. Like, I'm with you, but I'm imagining, you know, the guy that shows up in NASCAR in his camouflage or whatever and he's grumbling under his breath, like, what is she doing here? Who does she think she is? Like, I'm sure you're on the receiving end of quite a bit of that.

• 16:55Speaker 01

  It, it happens online really more than in person. I mean, maybe there were those people there at Daytona, but they didn't come to the tent or give me a hard time. Um, yeah, no, everybody that stopped was just so impressed with the food and I knew that that would be the case. I knew that what had to happen was they just have to try the food. And, and once they can see, oh my gosh, I can eat like chicken wings and, and there's no animals in this and this is healthier for me, that we were gonna change so many minds. And I've seen a bunch of race fans commenting on, you know, my social media on Facebook and Twitter and just telling me like, I, I was at your tent at Daytona and I've been buying

• 17:37Speaker 01

  the vegan, you know, meats now and it's, it's amazing.

• 17:41Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's great. Yeah, uh, Landon Castle tells me the same, you know, Landon, right?

• 17:46Speaker 01

  Yes, I do.

• 17:47Rich Roll?

  So, he's a friend, he's been on the podcast, but he said that people come up to him all the time. Like, sometimes when other people aren't looking, but they're like, hey, tell me how you do this and like, how can I do this myself? And, you know, his experience in NASCAR. With that kind of one-on-one interaction with the fans and the people that kind of orbit that world is very different than what you would imagine sort of stereotypically would come to mind.

• 18:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, for certain. I mean, I think there's a lot of stereotyping of NASCAR fans and people think, and the same thing happens with the environment. They think, oh, you know, because they like fast cars, they don't care about clean air and clean water. And that's just not true. And it's really just about opening people's eyes and reaching out to them and trying to have the conversation. If you're going to try and change the world, you can't run around and preach to the choir. And I have found, and I think I'm one of the people that really walks this line of where I'm kind of in between these two worlds. Half my life is in, you know, the environmental world and the vegan world and the activist

• 18:55Speaker 01

  world. And then I also have this racing life. And I see that there's a lot more crossover than people give them credit for.

• 19:02Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, I would say that, I mean, you're, you're sort of describing that as two different worlds, but those worlds bleed together more than they do for any other driver that I know. I don't know of any other driver that brings their point of view or their, whatever they're into, like whatever they're, you know, interested in, into the racing world to the extent that you do. For, for me, from my perspective, as a very much an outsider who knows very little about NASCAR and racing in general, it would appear to me that these are one in the same for you.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  They are. I mean, I know from the outside, people hear, you know, environmental activist and race car driver, and they think, how can those two possibly go together? But for me, they're, they're endlessly intertwined and one really doesn't exist without the other. Because I made a conscious choice many years ago that I didn't want to race unless I was promoting something.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  That I believed in, you know, so my cars have carried, like I said, those documentaries and I've had solar and wind on my car, um, clean energy, stuff promoting, you know, legislative changes to help us get to a hundred percent renewable energy, you know, the vegan car, they're all things that I really fight for when I'm away from the racetrack, um, and not behind the wheel. And so it's a much deeper thing to me. It's not just like a logo on a car. And, and many of the drivers, I mean, I'd say most of the drivers that I race with, they just want to race cars, you know, that is their, a hundred percent their main passion. Whereas for me, you know, racing is a passion. I love to

• 20:40Speaker 01

  race. Um, but I find more satisfaction and more, um, more reward in, in being an activist. And so to be able to use the race car as sort of a billboard for the activism is, I mean, for me, I just look at it as an incredible opportunity that I have this 200 mile an hour billboard that can reach all of these people that normally, you know, I think the environmental world and the vegan world can struggle to reach them because, you know, they're hanging out at the racetrack. You're not seeing a ton of vegan food. You're not seeing a lot of environmental messages. So, you know, like we power my race car,

• 21:21Speaker 01

  my pit box is powered by solar. We've got a portable solar, uh, thing that we

• 21:26Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Has anybody else, you started that in like 2014, right?

• 21:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:31Rich Roll?

  So the whole pit crew's solar powered. And I saw an interview with one of your pit guys and he's like, it's awesome because it doesn't make any of the noise that the other pit crews make. So you can actually focus on what you're doing. And, and he's, he was basically asserting that it was more productive for him to do it that way.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, there's, there were competitive advantages that I think they didn't expect. I was doing it obviously because I didn't want to burn any, any fuel. If I could use everything off of solar, why wouldn't we do that? Um, but there were definitely teams coming over and, and asking us about it. And it wasn't because they wanted to like go green or reduce their carbon footprint. It was because it would be a competitive advantage in the pits to not have to yell over this loud diesel generator when you're trying to talk to each other. Um, so those are, you know, it's just about going out and doing it. Like I also drive my Tesla to and from all the races and, you know, oftentimes I'll tell fans like what Tesla superchargers I'll be at so they can come and see the car and, and it's by doing that,

• 22:31Speaker 01

  I'm sort of dispelling, I think the biggest myth that people have about electric cars, which is that, you know, they can't go on long road trips when that's just not true. There's so many superchargers out there. You can easily do road trips. I've driven all the way from New York to San Francisco with no problem finding charging. Um, so just by doing it and showing up and being at the track and having the electric car, I mean, just those little things of seeing it, that's planting a little seed in their head that, you know, maybe my next car will be electric or maybe I'll look into putting solar panels on my house or, you know, maybe instead of buying meat, I'm gonna try that

• 23:10Speaker 01

  vegan stuff. It's, I think it's just all about leading by example and that's what I'm trying to do in racing. And I understand why a lot of the other drivers, I think there's a lot of drivers that care about the issues I care about, but they don't know if their next ride is gonna be, you know, in the Pennzoil car.

• 23:29Rich Roll?

  Right, or the Doritos car, the Shell car, yeah.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  Right. So they can't really show up with me at the BP oil spill or go to DC and lobby against oil because that could lose them a potential racing job. Whereas for me, I don't care if it loses me that racing job because I would rather not race than race a car promoting things that I don't care about. So.

• 23:49Rich Roll?

  Your priorities are different, but you make it, you, you, you create, you make it doubly hard on yourself. Like not only are you one of the few females like trying to put a stamp into this world, you're in a position where you're gonna have to say no to most of the sponsors that are knocking on your door, which means, you know, you may not get your car funded and you're not gonna be able to race as much. So your ability to sort of make a living and, and really progress up the ranks of the sport is severely truncated as a result.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  For sure. Yeah. I mean, I hadn't been in a car for two years. When I raced at Daytona in the vegan car and we did so well. Um, we were all the way up in fourth place um, in that race and I was running sixth when uh, another car took me out with 15 laps to go. Um, but.

• 24:37Speaker 01

  I would, I just really feel strongly that like, I want to race, but I'm not gonna sell my soul so that I can race. It's not, it's not that important to me. Whereas the causes to me, these are the most important challenges that the human race has ever faced. I mean, we're, we're living through the sixth mass extinction of species. We're, you know, we're killing off animals, plants and animals at a rate that's like a thousand times faster than the normal natural background rate. Um, just ocean acidification, climate change, all of these things. This is, this is too big to ignore. I mean, you really, all of us have to try and become part of the solution. And that includes NASCAR fans and, you know,

• 25:22Speaker 01

  fans of every sport. We can't just be, you know, we can't just be talking to our friends. We have to go out there and have those hard, they're harder conversations to have, right? You know, it's hard to sit and talk to somebody who you know, coming to the table is on the other side of you and doesn't agree with what you're saying. But that's how you eventually change people.

• 25:46Rich Roll?

  I think it's, it's hard for most people to even break out of thinking, you know, they're having their thinking orient solely around what's in their best sort of immediate self-interest, you know, in general, right? So basically, you know, you're asking people to think more broadly about the choices that they make, which is new for a lot of people and perhaps, you know, slightly uncomfortable. Uh, and, and for you, as somebody who's had an eye on like maintaining your integrity in that world by not, you know, taking sponsor dollars from companies that would, you know, sort of undermine, you know, the integrity of the message that you're putting out there and you, and, and thus being able to, not being able to race as often. Despite that, you still take some gruff from people who

• 26:31Rich Roll?

  say, well, it's hypocritical for you to even be a race car driver. How can you be an environmentalist when you're on this track and you're burning all this oil and you're in this sport that, you know, built into the very fabric of which is the, you know, overconsumption of fossil fuels. So how do you kind of, you know, retort to that?

• 26:47Speaker 01

  Right. So, I mean, The sport of auto racing began when the second car got built. I mean, this is

• 26:56Speaker 01

  this is something that

• 26:57Rich Roll?

  That's probably something in auto racing say, people in auto racing say all the time, right? But I've never heard that before. I like that.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  I mean, it's never gonna go away. People are always gonna wanna race cars. And certainly, you know, I've been, I've been working with and talking with the people over at Electric GT. It's possible that I'll be racing a Tesla next year.

• 27:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah, they're creating a whole series around this, right?

• 27:15Speaker 01

  Right, yeah. It's a modified, highly modified version of a P100D Model S. So it's got like 1,100 pounds ripped out of it and it'll just be, and it'll be the fastest GT car in the world. But that series is still being, you know, built right now. So it hasn't actually started yet. But with regards to the, you know, okay, so I burned, I burned like 30 gallons of gasoline at Daytona.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  And that's all I've burned in the last

• 27:45Rich Roll?

  Is that all you burn when you race something like Daytona?

• 27:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it's a 22 gallon fuel tank. I'm not running in the 500, so my race is only 200 miles

• 27:54Rich Roll?

  I got you.

• 27:55Speaker 01

  round, so it's like 80 laps. And we can go most of the race on that 22. You do do one pit stop for refueling to get some fuel. But yeah, it's probably around 30, maybe a little over 30 gallons of gas. You know, in response, like, I also haven't bought gasoline for my personal car since September 2013 because I've been driving my electric car and I've got solar panels on my roof. So I'm actually producing more solar every month than I use to run my whole house and to charge up the Tesla. So I'm actually, you know, giving solar away essentially to my neighbors.

• 28:34Speaker 01

  And so, but yeah, there's nothing I can do about the fuel, you know, that's burnt in the race car. I have to use the same fuel as everybody else. But You know, so to, so to sort of address that in 2007, I started adopting an acre of rainforest for every race that I run to sort of offset that carbon footprint. But if I didn't burn that 30 gallons, like if it wasn't me in that vegan powered race car at Daytona, I wouldn't take a race car off the grid. There'd just be another driver in that car with a different sponsor. There, there's always going to be a full field of race cars on the track. So it's not like if I quit racing and was like, okay, I'm just going to ride a bike instead

• 29:15Speaker 01

  now because I don't want to, you know, ever burn 30 gallons again. Um, first of all, I'm like losing my reach of millions of people, you know, over a million people are watching that Daytona race.

• 29:26Rich Roll?

  You can go speak at the Veg Fest and preach to the echo chamber, or you can be on NBC Sports and have millions of people, you know, see your car spin around that track however many times and

• 29:38Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 29:39Rich Roll?

  potentially make an impact on people who are brand new to these ideas.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, Daytona, I mean, we got incredible television coverage at, at Daytona and, and then commentators on TV, the NASCAR commentators even said, or the ARCA commentators even said, you know, I tried some of that food down there and it was pretty good. That vegan food's pretty good.

• 29:58Rich Roll?

  They weren't like cracking jokes at your expense?

• 30:00Speaker 01

  No, no, they were totally praising and it was really awesome. I actually, my whole race team went vegan for that race weekend. So all we cooked was, was vegan food. It was very funny because the first day, um, Kathy Venturini, who was, who was doing the cooking, she's, um, the wife of, uh, Bill Venturini, who's sort of started Venturini Motorsports, which is the team that I raced for. So she told everybody and everybody knew, okay, we're going vegan for a race day. It's Leilani's birthday. And I sort of looked at it as like a birthday gift to me that the whole team was going vegan. And, um, so one of the guys, one of the crew guys, I guess, walked into the hauler and was eating some of the vegan chicken wings and looked at her and he's like, all right, where's this vegan food?

• 30:45Speaker 01

  She kinda pointed at his hand and she was like, "Yeah, you're, you're already eating the vegan dude." And he's like, he was like, "Nah, this is chicken." And she's like, "No, it's not. That's plant protein." And he couldn't even tell. So, um, there's been a lot of really positive reaction. And when I was putting my racing seat in, there's kind of a funny moment. I was getting my racing seat fitted in the car and I'm kind of small. I'm five foot three. And so to fit properly in the car, you know, we have to have my seat correct. It's very difficult to, to get the seat correct. And that's your office, you know, you're spending hours in there. So you want to make sure you're comfortable. So we're fitting my seat and we were late at the race shop. Most people had gone home, but there were six of us in, um, in the race shop.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  And of the six of us, um, it was just, uh, crew members working on the race cars. And then Bill Venturini, who started, um, the race team. And one of the guys working on my car was vegan. And another guy working on the car was vegetarian.

• 31:44Rich Roll?

  Just independent of you?

• 31:46Speaker 01

  Uh, the second guy, the first guy that's vegan was independent of me. The other guy went vegetarian after I showed him all these, you know, different documentaries. And he became, he became more aware, um, and he's super into it. And he posts pictures of all his vegan meals and stuff. Um, but then I was kind of looking around. I was like, he's vegetarian, he's vegan, I'm vegan. That means that 50% of the people that are inside Venturini Motorsports right now are vegan. And so I went over to Bill and their hat, um, for the race team is just a big V. Standing for Venturini, which is their last name. And I was like, you know what? Half the people in your race shop are either vegetarian or vegan right now.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  I think that V might actually also could stand for, for vegan. And he was laughing, but they've all, they've all really started to substitute. You know, when they get ground beef, now they're getting the vegan ground beef. And when I go to the race shop, you know, sometimes I'll bring like a vegan pizza or I'll stick some vegan ice cream in the fridge. And I just, you know, I'm not trying to be super forceful, but I'm nudging people.

• 32:53Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I get it.

• 33:01Rich Roll?

  You're as out there and as outspoken as anybody on all of these issues. Like, you don't pull punches, you're not afraid to get controversial and mix things up. And we're going to get into all that kind of stuff. So it's not like you're a sheepish, you know, advocate for these ideas that are so important.

• 33:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess when you're putting it on the hood of your race car, it's not very subtle.

• 33:20Rich Roll?

  You're not hiding, you know? Yeah, it's like you're, I mean, it's, I would say a Trojan horse, but that implies that you're kind of hiding, you know? It's like you're not hiding at all. You're just blazing, you know, full guns into a world that is traditionally, you know, not receptive to these kinds of ideas. So there's a boldness to that that I appreciate. I mean, what is the, you know, we know the sort of stereotype of the typical NASCAR fan, or, you know, I've never been to a NASCAR race, or kind of what that world is all about. But, you know, what is the, you know, what is the reality that you see? Like, in your experience of doing this for however long? You've been doing this for like 15, 16 years, right?

• 34:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, so the activism, when I actively started to use my voice to talk about like the environment and really bring causes into it was around 2006. In the beginning of my career as a woman, like, I was just trying to be accepted. I wanted so badly to, you know, be embraced by the racing community, which-

• 34:23Rich Roll?

  And that's enough.

• 34:24Speaker 01

  Is, I mean, it just, I mean, at some point, I kind of just realized, you know what? I'm never going to fit in. Like, why am I trying to get them to accept me? Like, I'm never, I'm never going to fit in. Like, when you're the only girl, or one of the very few girls-

• 34:40Rich Roll?

  How many are there?

• 34:41Speaker 01

  Well, there's Danica Patrick, who's on the top level of NASCAR. I don't think there's any women in NASCAR Xfinity Series.

• 34:49Rich Roll?

  That's the series that you race? So maybe-

• 34:50Speaker 01

  No, no, I'm in ARCA. So I'm one level, I'm what you would race before you go to Xfinity. I think there's one girl that races in NASCAR Craftsman Trucks, but- Yeah, so I mean, at my race at Daytona, I was the only girl in the ARCA race and Danica was, I think, the, she was the only girl, obviously, in the Cup Series. And I'm not sure, I'm not sure if there was a girl in the NASCAR Truck Series. There might, I think there might be a girl running in that still. So we're, yeah, I mean, we're definitely like the odd ones out.

• 35:19Rich Roll?

  And do you guys like hang and like talk?

• 35:22Speaker 01

  Well, we're all in different series.

• 35:23Rich Roll?

  So you're not even like, yeah, because you have this idea, you get together and have like girls' night and like complain about like...

• 35:28Speaker 01

  I know, Danica, and we've, you know, we, we have a friendly relationship. We've been on campaigns together in the past. And so we have a good relationship. But like, yeah, I don't see her all the time or anything like that. It's, if we saw each other at the track, we definitely say hello. And, um, it's, you know, I'm always pulling for other girls to do well because we're, there are so few of us. Um, but yeah, at some point, I realized, I think 2006 is when An Inconvenient Truth came out. And I, you know, my degree's in biology, specializing in ecology, behavior, and evolution. So I was already very environmental long ago. Um, but that movie coming out was when I really felt like, you know, it's

• 36:09Speaker 01

  not enough for me to just talk to my friends about this and my family. You know, I, I should use like racing to start talking about this. So that's when I started, you know, an area on my website that was actively reaching out to the race fans. And the response was really bad at first. You know, people were angry.

• 36:27Rich Roll?

  Don't bring politics into the race drive.

• 36:29Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I mean, people, I remember seeing tons of traffic coming to my website from a NASCAR forum. And I was like, where, what, what is going on? And I went to look and it was a thread that was essentially calling me all kinds of names, throwing me under the bus because I had said something about An Inconvenient Truth as a movie that everybody should see. And they were just trashing me and this, this driver's an idiot. And she's brainwashed by Al Gore and global warming is a farce and all this ridiculous arguments. But then, so by the time I found it, the thread was many pages long. So then one of the people on the forum said, well, have you actually seen the movie that she's talking about? Because it's a little weird if you're so mad at this girl for promoting this movie

• 37:14Speaker 01

  if you haven't even actually watched it. Have you watched it? And then the discussion sort of left trashing me. And then it became a discussion about Al Gore and the film. And then by the time the end of the thread, I got to the end of the thread, people were posting graphs of the parts per million of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. And this was on a NASCAR forum where normally people are only talking about racing and what happened in the race and what driver did what. And that was sort of like a moment where the hair on the back of my neck kind of stood up and I immediately was totally over all of the insults that they had flung at me.

• 37:52Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you won. You stimulated conversation in a, in a realm in which that would have never happened ordinarily.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  Right. It was a

• 38:01Rich Roll?

  It transcended your personality. Your, your personality was the catalyst. You, you sort of lit the spark, but then it became about the issue.

• 38:07Speaker 01

  That then became like my number one focus was like, okay, I'm just gonna get them to start talking about this stuff. Because I guarantee you, people that were arguing on that thread, I guarantee you, some of them then went and watched the movie because they were having such a big fight about it. So it was negative back then, but that's 2006. I mean, that was really in the very beginning of people learning about climate change, especially the mainstream. But now it's really positive. I mean, in 2010, I ran a clean energy car. That the goal of the car was to raise awareness about changing legislation. And it was a partnership with all these veterans that were fighting for clean energy on Capitol Hill.

• 38:50Speaker 01

  And we had a big tent display like we did with the vegan car and we were, you know, talking to people about clean energy. And we had 30,000 people come through our tent and give us their emails and say, I want to be kept up to date about these clean energy issues. Um, in Washington DC and that was over the course of the race weekend, it was thirty thousand, you know, emails we had gotten and, you know, there's probably a hundred thousand people at the racetrack. So we got almost a third of the people that were there and that was two thousand ten. So now, fast forward, I've had the Blackfish car, I've had the Cove car, lots of people when they saw the Cove. I mean, I don't think there's anybody that can watch the Cove and not be deeply

• 39:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 39:34Speaker 01

  affected by that.

• 39:35Rich Roll?

  Oscar winning documentary.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  Fantastic.

• 39:38Rich Roll?

  And then Blackfish, you know, on the heels of that.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:42Rich Roll?

  Which caused, you know, such a, you know, such a, it made such a, an impact culturally. I mean, everybody was talking about that movie.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can, you can actually see, I was just talking about this last night, you can see the day that if you zoom out of the SeaWorld, um, look at the value of SeaWorld stock, you can see the day that Blackfish aired on CNN for the first time because they lost like three billion dollars of market share the very next day. So the, the stock was up here and it just drops out of the sky and it's never recovered. It's, it's been down there ever since. And I just, I think the power of social media and, you know, like what happened with United.

• 40:21Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 40:22Speaker 01

  Um, ten years ago, that guy could have gotten dragged off the airplane and, and nobody would have known.

• 40:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and you have CEOs that are operating in an old paradigm where they don't understand the, the way in which you need to communicate in this day and age in order to, you know, first avoid those incidents from happening, but then to initiate an appropriate response that's going to rehabilitate the damage that's caused. I mean, you know, that guy just dug his grave in the way that that company responded to that situation.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  Right. I, I really love, so I know social media can have, there can be bad things about it, right? Like when the vegan car got announced, I mean, I was getting death threats. I was having people tell me, you know, I hope you wreck and I hope you die at Daytona, you know.

• 41:08Rich Roll?

  Is that coming in on Twitter or those on like NASCAR forums?

• 41:10Speaker 01

  Twitter, no, Twitter and Facebook, um, just, I mean.

• 41:15Rich Roll?

  A lot of frogs and MAGA people.

• 41:18Speaker 01

  Un- unbelievable. And, and also the Blackfish, um, when I left the flowers for Tilicum at, um, SeaWorld, when Tilicum, the orca from Blackfish died. Like somebody even left a message on my, I think this was on Instagram, but he was like, "They shouldn't have issued you trespassing." Like, uh, fine, they should have, you should have been shot.

• 41:40Rich Roll?

  Oh my god.

• 41:42Speaker 01

  Just ridiculous. Like, people, people are so very defensive, especially, I think actually, the vegan car probably touched more, um...

• 41:51Rich Roll?

  What is the nerve that's getting, that's getting pinched, though? You know what I mean? It's like, the, the reaction is so strong and, and, uh, and violent.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:02Rich Roll?

  So what is it that's being triggered in people that's creating that kind of a response? Because I can't imagine that they, it's not like they're shareholders in SeaWorld, or, you know, what is it that they're protecting?

• 42:14Speaker 01

  I think, I mean, this is just my theory, but I feel like it's, they're feeling defensive because they know they're on the wrong side. They know we're right. They know that eating animals hurts the planet. Clearly, it hurts billions of animals. They know it's not healthy. And by being vegan, we're sort of throwing in their face, "You're doing it wrong." And, and I know people, uh, there is a sort of like, you, "Oh, you're not supposed to judge people. You shouldn't be judgmental." But I mean, how can, how can you not? I, I, I try to not judge if somebody doesn't know the facts.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  But when somebody actually knows the hurt, that, the cruelty, the awfulness of factory farming and the meat and dairy industry, when they know how much pollution is happening, how much deforestation, how the oceans are acidifying, and more greenhouse gas emissions come from raising animals for food in the entire transportation sector, um, when they know all these things and they still continue on with their normal...

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Way of eating, I I don't get it. Like, I don't understand how somebody can see it and then

• 43:38Rich Roll?

  Human behavior is, you know, is a black box in many ways. And I think it's very difficult for people to change habits that they have adhered to their entire life, you know, it's, it's, it's hard. And I think, you know, somebody who is on the receiving end of all of that information and has processed it and still doesn't change their behavior is living in this, you know, sort of dichotomous world where they're, you know, I'm sure, look, nobody is in support, unless you own a factory farm, you're not in support of factory farming. There's, there's, nobody's like, s- s- supporting like the slaughter of all these, you know, it's like, we all know it's terrible.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 44:16Rich Roll?

  But we just file it into the, this, you know, dark compartment in the back of our brains and try to carry on. And for some people, that becomes untenable. And other people are able to compartmentalize it. But when you bring it up, they don't want to look at it because they, they know on some level, however conscious or unconscious, that their actions are not in alignment with, you know, their core values of their higher self.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 44:40Rich Roll?

  Uh, and that gets poked, you know, and that's uncomfortable. So it's, it's not surprising, I suppose, that, you know, a natural human reaction would be to react, to like lash out against that because, you know, it's not fun to look at your own shit.

• 44:54Speaker 01

  The other thing that really, really has been bugging me lately is, um, seeing animal rescue groups, like groups that are, uh, rescuing cats and dogs that then are serving meat at their events. And I'm like, okay, so you're, you want to help these animals, but these ones, it's okay for you to be cooking up. I just, I, I can't understand.

• 45:20Rich Roll?

  Humans are weird that way.

• 45:21Speaker 01

  Why do we knit sweaters for one species? And then the other species, it's like, it's just treated like it has no feelings. It's, it's so weird to me.

• 45:31Rich Roll?

  But as an advocate, or as somebody who's interested in, like, sort of figuring out the best way to carry a message that's going to provoke the most change, it's an interesting discussion to have because you have a choice. You can either attack those people and say, how could you do this, but not this? Or you can say, this is amazing that you're saving these dogs. And perhaps find a more gentle way to say, You know, there's other things we can look at, too. This is a great thing to be doing. Let's expand on it and look at other areas that need redress, you know? And what is, which, which strategy is going to be more likely to get somebody to kind of move in, in a positive direction?

• 46:09Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah. I mean, it's a difficult, it's a difficult question. I don't know the answer of how to best be effective. And I for sure, you know, I'm not always, um, I can be pretty blunt. So just, I think it was just yesterday, somebody asked me, it was actually a NASCAR person, um, asked me on Twitter, uh, do we still do eggs for Easter? Or is this gross now? What do you do? And then asked me, you know, tagged me in the tweet and said, what, what do you do? What's, what is your solution? And I wrote back and I just said, you know, in my humble opinion, it's like coloring,

• 46:51Speaker 01

  uh, coloring and then eating chickens menstrual cycles slash periods is pretty gross. So, and then I linked to like-

• 47:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I would have answered it differently, but go ahead.

• 47:06Speaker 01

  So then I linked to, um, I found a ceramic egg that's like a dyeable egg that's ceramic that is like a vegan solution if you want to dye eggs with your kids. But so many of the people that responded were like, and I'll never be able to look at an egg the same way ever again. But it's really effective, right? It sort of shocks people at first, but then they think about it and they're like, geez, that is a chicken's period. I didn't realize that's what I've been eating for breakfast all these years.

• 47:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's weird when you've been looking at something in a certain way your entire life and there's another perspective on it that's never been raised. You know, sometimes that doesn't work, but sometimes it's effective.

• 47:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's, I've found it to be really effective. That, that one especially because people just, I mean, it, it really grosses them out.

• 47:56Speaker 01

  I think I've stopped a lot of people from eating eggs by saying that.

• 48:00Rich Roll?

  Well, let's, let's track it back a little bit. Like, I'm interested in, you know, how you grew up and, and, you know, what inspired you to get into racing in the first place? Because it wasn't part of your fam- it's not like you grew up in a family of race car drivers. I mean, you, you know, grew up in Minnesota and then you studied biology at UC San Diego. Like, you know, racing wasn't part of the, you know, the young girl's dream for you, right?

• 48:23Speaker 01

  Right. It was not a part of the plan at all. Um, I started a bucket list in high school, which some people think is morbid. They're like, why bucket lists are for people when you're getting old, you know, things you want to do before you die. But I started mine in high school. And one of the things on my bucket list was to drive a race car because I was always getting in trouble for speeding and I loved speed and I just wanted to feel what it would feel like to drive a car to its limit and to not get in trouble for it, right?

• 48:56Rich Roll?

  So you were getting speeding tickets in high school?

• 48:58Speaker 01

  I was getting a lot of-

• 48:58Rich Roll?

  Were you like, were you getting in trouble? What kind of kid were you?

• 49:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I mean, the first year that I had my license, I got a letter from the state of Arizona saying that I was a danger to society because I had received an excessive number of speeding tickets and I had to go to like a class.

• 49:15Rich Roll?

  How many did you get?

• 49:17Speaker 01

  I don't remember how many I got, but it was enough to, you know, I had to go to the school in order, the, the driving school in order to keep my license. So I had gotten quite a few. And I don't know, I just love speed. I love speed and I have a little bit of an adrenaline addiction, I think. Like, I like jumping. I've gone skydiving a few times and paragliding and I did bungee jumping, which I'm scared of heights. I don't think I'll ever do it again because it was pretty scary. I did that twice. But I just like, I don't know, I like things that like get my blood pumping. And so speed, heights I don't like, but speed I like. And so it was on my bucket list and I went to a, I'd saved up my money and I went to a racing school and I was fast. I was actually a second quicker.

• 50:00Rich Roll?

  So this was, how old were you then?

• 50:02Speaker 01

  So this was college years. So this is 2000. It was, I want to say it was like October of 2000.

• 50:08Rich Roll?

  And this is, is this before or after you were working as a body double for Catherine Zeta-Jones?

• 50:14Speaker 01

  This was after. I actually left one of the movies I was working for her on. I left early to go to the racing school. I left like a couple of days before we wrapped and she was like, what is this I hear about you driving race cars? She was scared I was gonna get hurt.

• 50:27Rich Roll?

  How long did you work with her?

• 50:29Speaker 01

  I worked with her on, the first movie was Amer- uh, no, the first movie was Traffic. Um, and then I did-

• 50:36Rich Roll?

  That must have been a cool experience.

• 50:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was great.

• 50:39Rich Roll?

  I know the writer on that movie. That's an amazing movie.

• 50:41Speaker 01

  Traffic, America's Sweethearts was the comedy, um, which was really fun. We shot that in Vegas. And then they asked me to go do Oceans, what was it? Oceans 12 that she was in? One of the Oceans movies. Um, and unfortunately I, I had my first race scheduled. So I just, I was trying to build this racing career and, um, so I, I stopped doing all that stuff. I just started pouring everything into the race.

• 51:06Rich Roll?

  You sort of had this little, you know, mini Hollywood career going on for a minute and then you're like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go learn how to race cars. Was it like, this is just gonna be a fun thing because it's on my bucket list? Or were you like, I want to do this seriously?

• 51:18Speaker 01

  No, no, it was totally a bucket list thing. So I had always wanted to race and, you know, I didn't want to act or anything. I was, I was, I was doing the doubling work to like pay my bills, to pay my rent. Um, you know, and it was definitely money that I made working on those films that, that allowed me to go to the racing schools because those are not cheap either. Um, but I didn't think I was ever gonna do it again. Yeah. I mean, I thought I was gonna like have that experience and check it off my list, like the bungee jump and never do it again. But, but then I was fast and the, um, there was a race team owner, sort of like a regional level NASCAR owner that was there at the track. And he came over to me and he was, at first he was just kinda like, who, who are you here with? And I said, you know, nobody. I'm just here by

• 52:01Speaker 01

  myself. And he's like, that's really strange because usually when we have women drivers, you know, come through the school, they've been like dragged by their husbands or their boyfriends and they don't really want to be here. I was like, no, no, I've always wanted to race and um and then he just kind of said, you know, normally I would never encourage somebody to get into racing because it is so expensive and it's just, you know, it's a very tough sport. Um, but you were really fast and you were the fastest car on the track and.

• 52:31Rich Roll?

  What is it like, sorry to interrupt, but like, I'm interested in in, you know, what makes a great driver like, or somebody who shows talent at like, obviously this guy saw something in you, you know, a diamond in the rough or whatever. But like, what is it that he was able to see? I mean, there's going like, to me, not knowing anything about racing, it's like, all right, well, you know, you can go as fast as the car can go, right? So what is it that the driver is doing? Or what demonstration of talent distinguishes somebody who's, you know, gonna just be like everybody else versus somebody who really understands like how to do this properly?

• 53:07Speaker 01

  I mean, I honestly think so. I mean, for me, obviously, that day I hadn't had seat time. That was my first day in a race car. So I didn't really know what I was doing, but I wasn't afraid of speed and I was able to go into the corners, you know, fast and I wasn't afraid to like, sort of push the car. And so I think he just saw that. And then, and then he kind of explained that the reason, you know, I'd normally never encouraged somebody to get into racing, but because you're a woman and there's so few women in our sport, you know, I really think you should pursue this because you showed some talent today. And there's not very many women out there. So maybe you could find sponsorship, even though you don't have your own money to race. Um, because I immediately explained, I was like, oh, I don't have the kind of money it takes to drive race cars on the weekend.

• 53:48Speaker 01

  Like, I'm not rich. And um, he said, you might be able to find sponsors. Um, but then after that, I really do believe it's, it's, you know, spending time in the race car. I mean, if you have the, the basics, right? You're not afraid of speed, you're able to go into corners fast, you're not afraid of like, losing control of the car, getting it to that edge where you're comfortable with it, almost losing control. Then you've got the basics and then it's really just getting seat time and being in the race car and that, you know, the problem with that is that is really expensive because every time you drive your race car, there's a possibility that you wreck it. It's expensive to get the cars on the track. Really for, for the ARCA series, like when I ran Daytona,

• 54:31Speaker 01

  we had, you know, practice session the month before where we spent like three days turning laps. But at Talladega, there's no test sessions anymore. So

• 54:40Rich Roll?

  And you hadn't raced in two years. So like, that's like a long period of time without being behind the wheel of a car like that, right?

• 54:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 54:48Rich Roll?

  So, I mean, it's a whole other tangent, but you know, I'd love to hear like how you prepare for a race like that. When, you know, it's like if you're a runner, you go out and run. If you're, you know, whatever, whatever you do as an athlete, that's what you train and practice every day. But, you know, race car driving, you can't get in the car. So, you know, how do you, you know, we can talk about that in a minute. I don't want to get distracted. So go ahead.

• 55:09Speaker 01

  So, so wait, do you want to talk about the preparation or?

• 55:15Rich Roll?

  No, let's talk about what we were talking about before.

• 55:16Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 55:17Rich Roll?

  So now we're all

• 55:19Speaker 01

  Oh, we're talking about like how, what he said to me.

• 55:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah, like how you got your career on its feet.

• 55:24Speaker 01

  Right. So, so it was really just, I mean, it was that 10 minute conversation with this stranger that I didn't know, that totally changed the course of my life because that happened on a weekend. And then that following Monday, I went to, I started to approach sports marketing companies and I said, look, you know, I have no racing experience, but I showed some talent and this race team owner believed in what I did and

• 55:49Rich Roll?

  And you were just cold calling?

• 55:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I just approached sports marketing companies and then one company was like, yeah, this is pretty cool. We'll try it. We don't have any other race car drivers. They were handling like snowboarders and surfers and skaters. And they were like, this is really cool. It's not something we normally do, but we'll try it. And so we started looking for sponsors and it took us nine months to find the first sponsorship. And at that time, it was just to run this little short track in San Diego. It was called Go Home Speedway. It's gone now. And I needed, I think, fifteen hundred dollars a race to run.

• 56:21Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 56:21Speaker 01

  And now, you know, now when I go out and look, it's, you know, a hundred thousand, or in the case of the vegan car with the display and the food, it's two hundred thousand. So it gets a lot more expensive, but of course, you're reaching many more people. So I started racing. In my very first race, I fought for the lead. And I was just hooked.

• 56:42Rich Roll?

  Very first race.

• 56:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it's very first race. And actually, the guy that I was racing against, we were like door to door, door to door. He came over to me after the race and he shook my hand and he said, you know, I have to admit, like, when you showed up here, I was kinda skeptical and, you know, there's not very many girls at the track, but he was like, you were the most fun to race. Like, I was so much faster than everybody else, but you were actually the only person that I was like really having to, to race.

• 57:08Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and that, and that guy's probably been racing for years and years and years.

• 57:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know. I, I, I don't know, like, how long he had been out there, but he was basically like, thanks for making racing fun again, because I didn't have anybody to race out there. And like, you know, you were actually as quick as me and that was really fun.

• 57:23Rich Roll?

  So that must have left you thinking like, oh, I, I, I am like, pretty good at this. Like, there, there could be a thing here.

• 57:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I knew that, like, okay, I'm showing promise that I was able to run up front. And then, and then I ran a second race in Texas. So I only got sponsorship. That first sponsorship was like three thousand dollars. It was enough to go to two races. And I was just hooked. And I, right then and there, decided, you know what, this is, this, I wanna chase this. Like, I know this doesn't make sense. And my family, certainly, and my friends, I think, thought I had lost my mind, because here I'd gone to school in science and biology. And then all of a sudden, I'm like, I'm gonna move to North Carolina and be a NASCAR driver. I think they were like, ooh, what happened to her?

• 58:11Rich Roll?

  Well, on some level, your parents, you know, you're the, you're, you were the menace to society in high school, right? For speeding all the time. So it couldn't have come as that big of a shock.

• 58:20Speaker 01

  It was just such a different path from the one that I had been on.

• 58:24Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I get it.

• 58:25Speaker 01

  But, and it didn't actually make sense to me either. So I packed up, I moved to North Carolina, packed up my little, I had a Volkswagen GTI, put all my stuff in my car, got my helmet. I got to North Carolina, I didn't know a single person, I didn't have a job. I had no race car, no sponsor, no race team. I just had my helmet.

• 58:47Rich Roll?

  Like, what year is this?

• 58:49Speaker 01

  This is 2002.

• 58:50Rich Roll?

  Ah, it's not that long ago.

• 58:52Speaker 01

  And then I just started, you know, trying to get in a race car whenever I could. Crappy race cars, slow race cars, race cars that, you know, were so low on, the teams were so low on budget that we couldn't even afford to buy new tires for the race. We'd be using hand me downs from, you know, other big teams that had money that didn't want to use, use tires. And you have to get into, you know, when you don't have money and you're coming into the sport, you have to get into just every car you can, just to get the experience. But now I've gotten to the point where, you know, like, 2007, I really got a taste of being in a fast car. I was in open wheel cars. I did a couple of races over in Indy Pro Series. And I was with a fast team, like, you know, when we unloaded, I

• 59:36Speaker 01

  expected to be in the top five. And once you get a taste of that, of like, running up front and being in contention to win the race, now I'm at the stage where I never want to go back to running with a car that I don't have a shot to win at. So I knew at Daytona, when I unloaded, you know, I'm with a good team, Ventrini's a fantastic team, and I knew, like, I have a shot to win this race. I could be the first woman to win an ARCA race. And I'll have another shot at Talladega in the vegan car. How amazing would it be if the first win for a woman in a, in an ARCA car in history is in the vegan powered car? Cause that picture will go everywhere.

• 1:00:13Rich Roll?

  Not only is she a woman, she's vegan too? Can't we just get these one at a time?

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  No. When I first started talking about this vegan car, it's funny, I did an interview with a... Like a NASCAR news site and they wrote a story. And in the story, I was saying like, I'm not trying to make people like go vegan cold turkey. I'm just saying like, try meatless Mondays, give it a shot. Try some of these vegan meats. I'm not gonna like show up at the racetrack and like take everybody's meat away. And what did they do? Now, the headline was normal and the article used all my real quotes. But then when they like sent it out on social media, the title was something like, Leilani Munter wants to take away NASCAR's barbecue.

• 1:01:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah. The menacing evil Leilani is, you know, out to get you and take away what you love the most.

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  I was like, no, that's not what I said.

• 1:01:11Rich Roll?

  She's gonna climb down your chimney and steal your Christmas presents too.

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  It was pretty funny. They're like, oh, first she's trying to get us all to drive electric cars and now she's taking away my meat too.

• 1:01:21Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:01:22Speaker 01

  It's kind of funny.

• 1:01:24Rich Roll?

  So what was the first like big break? Was there one or was it just a natural progression of getting better and getting faster?

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  Um, I feel like my first big break was probably when I moved over into the open wheel cars in 2007. Cause it was the first time, you know, I just, I didn't have enough funding to get into a great race car. Um, you know, like a top winning car before then. And um, when I went over into Indy Pro Series, I only had sponsorship for two races. Um, but like I qualified fifth for my first race. And that's another situation we were talking about, like not being able to practice. I had to turn, you know, I think a hundred laps in front of the Indy car officials to get my license. Um, and I did really well and I got my license. And there was another driver there. It's funny. There's another driver there that had tons of money.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  Um, but they wouldn't give him his license because he was so far off the pace and he was all over the track. And so you, you know, they don't give the, the Indy car licenses out to just anybody. You have to actually show that you're capable.

• 1:02:28Rich Roll?

  And why didn't you, maybe this is a naive question, but um, why didn't you stay in open wheel and like pursue that Indy path?

• 1:02:38Speaker 01

  I, I loved driving the open wheel cars. There were two things that were working against us there. One, they had TV time, but it was hardly anybody watched the races. The, the amount of people that were tuning in was like 50,000 people versus, you know, ARCA, which had, you know, a million people.

• 1:03:01Rich Roll?

  So unless you pursue it.

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  Same.

• 1:03:03Rich Roll?

  Oh, it's the same. I would have thought it would have been more actually for those cars.

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  So the Indy Pro Series is about a hundred, it was about a hundred thousand a race. So it's about the same as ARCA. And so unless you find a, a company that has a CEO that just loves open wheel racing, like they like Formula One, they like Indy car and they don't care that there's less people watching. They think the cars are cooler and it's not about the numbers. It's about having a cool Indy car. Um, it's hard to sort of argue the case for that series when, when people can say, well, why wouldn't we just take that money and run ARCA and have million, a million viewers instead of.

• 1:03:41Rich Roll?

  Unless you pursue it to Formula One in Europe, right? Where it's a whole different thing.

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's just, you know, I, my first race was in a stock car and that was what I'd spent most of my time in. And really in the United States, you know, that's, that's the king of, of racing. The, the only race, I mean, not certainly people watch Indy car, but the, but the one race everybody watches is like the Indy 500. But then if you look at the numbers on the other races, it, it dropped significantly. So it's, it's just harder. It was harder for me to actually find sponsors and then they lost their television package. So then even the small amount of viewers that we had was gone. And so then I was just like, when I found that out, I was like, and I can't.

• 1:04:23Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  How can I possibly sell this now to a, to a company? Um, and so that's when I came back to stock cars and you know, I don't know how long I'll be racing. I mean, I this this race in the vegan powered car at Talladega could be my last race because that's all I have funding for right now. So it's I always have this sort of underlying like every time I show up, I'm like at Daytona, I only had sponsorship for Daytona. I thought Daytona might be my last race, but then here I was, you know, running in the top five. And I remember pulling into the garage and being like, I'm not ready to walk away from the sport yet. Like, I've still got I've still got it. I've still got something to prove. I can still drive a race car and I could still win. Um, so I'll get that shot. I'll

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  get that shot at Talladega. But but after that, yeah, I mean, there's no other races on my schedule. So I just I'm always like, sort of thinking I could be retired at any point.

• 1:05:26Rich Roll?

  If you didn't have this environmental vegan advocacy aspect to what you do, I would imagine that you could potentially gather the sponsors so that you could be racing every weekend, right? Like Landon's racing all the time. He's on a team. That's the way, you know, most of these guys operate.

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I walked away from

• 1:05:47Rich Roll?

  You do like one year contracts or I don't know how it works, but it's a season, right? It's not just a race by race thing.

• 1:05:54Speaker 01

  I've walked away from two sponsorships that were full rides, like millions of dollars. Because I just, the companies did not align with what what I believed in. And I mean, the marketing people just thought I was crazy. They were like, you're kidding me, right? Like, you don't have a ride and you're turning down like a multimillion dollar deal because you don't like what the company does in this one little thing.

• 1:06:24Speaker 01

  And I was just like, yes, I can't, I mean, I can't do that.

• 1:06:28Rich Roll?

  Yeah, everyone in sports like you're insane, right?

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, and maybe it was, I mean, I'd probably be a lot further higher up the sport had I taken that deal. And then there was another, there was another sponsor that was a big sponsor. And interestingly enough, they weren't, they themselves weren't doing anything wrong. But when I got the phone call from the marketing person, they said, they need you, they love your lifestyle, they love that you're so passionate about the environment, they think that's great. But the CEO has like some concerns about how much you're speaking out against big oil. I had just gotten back from the BP oil spill from like my second trip to the BP oil spill. And so they were essentially asking me, saying like, you can be environmental,

• 1:07:15Speaker 01

  but like, you're gonna have to dial back on like the oil thing. And I, so then I said no to that one, too. But even though that company was not actually doing anything that was bad to the environment, I would have said yes.

• 1:07:29Rich Roll?

  Maybe the CEO is buddies with the C, plays golf with the, you know, who knows?

• 1:07:32Speaker 01

  They never told me the backstory of it. But so there's, yeah, I mean, sometimes I wonder like, oh, what would have happened if I had actually had a chance to race full time and be in a car every weekend? Like, yeah, especially after Daytona where, you know, I raced my way all the way up to fourth place and I'm running in the top five, like at the end of the race.

• 1:07:53Rich Roll?

  And you hadn't raced in two years.

• 1:07:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I was thinking, I mean, I had a bunch of people say that, like, oh, my God, you haven't been in a race car in two years and you could have won that race. Like, how good would you be if you were out there every weekend? And I feel like I could be really good and I feel like I could win a race. But I just don't have the sponsorship to do that.

• 1:08:14Rich Roll?

  You gotta get your buddy Elon Musk on board to write that check.

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  Well, that doesn't make any sense, though, because Tesla is not.

• 1:08:22Rich Roll?

  He could create some shell company and have it funnel to you through some, you know, overseas, whatever. So.

• 1:08:29Speaker 01

  Well, I hope one day, I mean, I really hope that that Tesla series that's starting up in Europe

• 1:08:34Rich Roll?

  That's cool.

• 1:08:34Speaker 01

  is gonna be successful. They just actually unveiled the, um, the schedule and there's no races in the US yet. It's all overseas. Um, but I think that has the potential to do really well. There is already an open wheel electric series called Formula E.

• 1:08:50Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:08:50Speaker 01

  Um, but I think this Tesla series, you know, the, the Model S's are just such a beautiful car. I think they're just gorgeous.

• 1:08:58Rich Roll?

  So in that, does everybody race a Tesla?

• 1:09:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:01Rich Roll?

  Or you can't have some other kind of electric car?

• 1:09:04Speaker 01

  I mean, I think eventually they could open up to other electric cars, but right now the only cars that can possibly go that distance at that speed are Teslas. So they'll all be P100Ds and they'll be, they're modified. They're beautiful. I'll show you a picture of it.

• 1:09:17Rich Roll?

  Aren't there some new companies coming up though? I think it's CES. They unveiled some other kind of electric supercar. I don't know.

• 1:09:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, there's always other ones in the mix, but it's really about whether or not they can get to the actual production, right?

• 1:09:31Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:09:32Speaker 01

  So there's lots of people unveiling.

• 1:09:34Rich Roll?

  Anyone can create a prototype. Right.

• 1:09:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's lots of people unveiling like really cool, beautiful, and there's one of them.

• 1:09:40Speaker 01

  It's a whole different thing for them to be able to take that into production and create a hundred thousand of them in a year or whatever. So.

• 1:09:46Rich Roll?

  Create a company that's now more valuable than Ford.

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  And GM. Yeah.

• 1:09:50Rich Roll?

  And GM?

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  It's the most valuable American car company in the world.

• 1:09:54Rich Roll?

  That's crazy.

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  I, I just totally believe in that company. I remember taking my first tour of the Tesla factory and I, I was just totally blown away and like, you know, again, like the hair on the back of my neck stood up and I thought, wow, this is really something very special is happening in this building. And, you know, I, I just love my car. I haven't, I haven't bought gasoline since September 2013.

• 1:10:22Rich Roll?

  I've never seen, I have friends that have Teslas and I have friends that are Tesla fanatics, but I've never seen like an ambassador of a product be so passionate as you are about your Tesla, like just based on social media.

• 1:10:36Speaker 01

  I just love the car and, um, it's so fun to drive. Like, you know, you know, why I loved it so much? I think was that. It was the first car that existed in the world that I could have all the things that I wanted as a race car driver, the speed, the handling, the sexiness of the look of the car, and it not burn any gas. Cause the other choices just weren't sexy.

• 1:11:03Rich Roll?

  Checks every box. It's like, it's like a perfect car in every category. Safety too.

• 1:11:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:11:08Rich Roll?

  You know, the technology, it's unbelievable.

• 1:11:10Speaker 01

  And it's beautiful. Like I, you know, I've had that car for so many years, but I still, every time I park it, you know, I kinda glance back at it and like, oh, she's so pretty.

• 1:11:21Rich Roll?

  So is the Tesla that you have, the Tesla that was in Racing to Extinction?

• 1:11:25Speaker 01

  No, that's a different one.

• 1:11:27Rich Roll?

  That was like a prototype just for the movie, right? With the crazy paint on it and the projector and the whole thing?

• 1:11:31Speaker 01

  So that was actually, we bought it, um, OPS bought that car just as a normal stock P85 plus, um, Tesla. And then I drove it off the lot and I took it over to Obscura in San Francisco and they immediately just started ripping the interior out of the car.

• 1:11:49Rich Roll?

  So explain what Obscura is.

• 1:11:51Speaker 01

  So Obscura is the company, so if you've seen Racing Extinction, at the end of the movie, we do all these really incredible projection events. And Obscura is the company that, the digital like art company that can light up these huge buildings. So it's not just my car doing projections. Certainly I use the Tesla in Racing Extinction. So I'll just explain the Tesla quickly for people who haven't seen Racing Extinction. Um, the car I drive in Racing Extinction is this really sort of cool James Bond version of a Tesla. So, um, it has a 15,000 lumen projection system that comes out of the back of the Tesla. So I could project, you know, from a thousand feet away, images that were, you know, a hundred feet high, um, or more.

• 1:12:37Speaker 01

  And it also had an amazing camera that came out of the front of the car. They call it the frunk, meaning front trunk. And it was a high-def camera that allows, it's a FLIR camera, so it allows you to see carbon dioxide and methane. It's got a really special color filter on it. So it essentially makes, you know, the pollution that we're putting in the air visible.

• 1:13:02Rich Roll?

  Visible with the R.

• 1:13:03Speaker 01

  And I think if, you know, I wish pollution was visible, because if we could see those gases, certainly we would not be having all these problems. It's that we can't see it. And so in the film, we do some really cool stuff where, like, we were in New York and I had the projector out of the back of the Tesla, but I was also running the high-def FLIR out of the front. And I was filming like an SUV sitting in a stoplight, and then I was live projecting the image that we were shooting onto the side of the building. So, you know, like a 15-story-high image. So the guy in the car that was driving this SUV, you know, was looking up at the building and seeing himself and seeing like the emissions

• 1:13:45Speaker 01

  coming out of the back of his car. It's very, very powerful imagery. And then, yeah, the other thing the car had on it was this really cool, it's called electrolyminescent paint. And it essentially allowed the car to change colors, to, the car kind of glowed and we could change the design on it. It was kind of inspired by like bioluminescent ocean creatures. And we actually, they didn't really explain this in the movie, because you just run out of time when you're editing down to 90 minutes. But the purpose of that was actually so that when I was doing projections in places where I didn't have permission, like, you know, oil refineries or like the Koch Brothers buildings.

• 1:14:28Speaker 01

  That I could sort of hide in plain sight. So I would have the, the lights on when I was doing the projecting. So when they were calling the police or, you know, security to come after us, they're describing a glowing car with like bright blue, you know, lights on it and this big projector out the back. And then in just the course, you know, of like a minute, I can

• 1:14:52Rich Roll?

  Switch it down.

• 1:14:53Speaker 01

  I mean, the, the paint is an immediate, like it's literally, I hit a button and the car just goes gray. So that's immediate. And then, you know, just pulling in the projector. And so then they drive right past me.

• 1:15:05Rich Roll?

  Become a nondescript.

• 1:15:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. Cause they're looking for a glowing car and I just totally blend in with the background after that. So.

• 1:15:13Rich Roll?

  The images, the imagery that came out of that, like, experiment was, is just mind blowing. I mean, there were a lot of viral moments of that with the, the projection of the whale and, you know, the Empire State Building and things that you guys did is just really powerful and beautiful. And weren't you like projecting like statistics on the side of corporate headquarters were less than flattering?

• 1:15:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, we were, I think we projected onto one of the, it was like at the David Koch Theater and we were projecting about how, you know, burning fossil fuels is acidifying our oceans. We tried to project, um, you know, images that were symbolic to the buildings that we were sort of tagging. And it's, you know, we're not doing any harm. It's not a permanent thing. It's just we're, we're projecting photons onto your building and then it's gone. Um, but we were at a shell oil refinery and we projected, you know, the shell oil logo and then it turned into a real shell. And then we showed the, you know, what happens to the shell when it's sitting in an ocean that is becoming, you know, drastically more and more every day, more acidified. And I was just actually talking

• 1:16:20Speaker 01

  to our director, Luis Sojuez, today. And we were talking about how the Great Barrier Reef has, it's going through its second mass bleaching. So it already had like 90% of the reef had bleached and. They're going through another mass bleaching and I just, I don't, I mean, that's like the largest living structure on earth and I'm so glad I went to see it. Um, I went to Australia, actually, for a vegan festival, the Adelaide Vegan Festival. And I went early and I went to go scuba diving. My husband and I went scuba diving in the very southern tip of the Great Barrier Reef, which is still beautiful. It hasn't, it hasn't had any of the damage yet. Um, and I almost,

• 1:17:00Speaker 01

  it was, it was so beautiful, but at the same time, I felt like I was like saying goodbye to it, you know?

• 1:17:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's a, it's a tenuous time, you know, we really are butting up against this crazy tipping point and, you know, we need as many people to be as educated as possible to avert the horrific disaster that we're on the precipice of self-creating.

• 1:17:27Speaker 01

  That's awful. It's just, it's overwhelmingly depressing sometimes to know all these things. Like I can, I can kind of understand why some people tune it out. They, they don't want to know because it is, you know, it is hard to like see all this bad news all the time. It's awful to, to think, oh, all these beautiful things that we're seeing, these beautiful creatures, and we're losing all of it. We're killing it all off.

• 1:17:51Rich Roll?

  And it's, it's hard to care about something that's not in your face. You know, it's like, we don't see the factory farms and, you know, the ocean is underwater. So it's like, it's not part of your daily experience. So it's easy to avoid confronting it.

• 1:18:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:18:06Rich Roll?

  I think. But you got involved in Racing Extinction because you were, you, you were a volunteer on The Cove, right? So you began, like you, did you work out like for the organization that produced that? Or were you actually working on the movie?

• 1:18:21Speaker 01

  So no, I didn't work on The Cove at all. I saw The Cove and was just completely blown away by it. And the first words out of my mouth when I was finally able to talk, because it's a very emotional movie, um, was I looked at my husband, I said, we're going to Japan and we're gonna help Rick O'Berry and this.

• 1:18:39Rich Roll?

  Oh, so you volunteered for the organization after seeing the movie?

• 1:18:41Speaker 01

  Well, it's actually two different organizations. So I started volunteering for Rick O'Berry's Dolphin Project. So Rick is the activist. He's the one that

• 1:18:49Rich Roll?

  Featured in the movie.

• 1:18:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, that Louis follows over to Taiji and he teaches Louis all about. What's going on and Louis is the filmmaker and that's Oceanic Preservation Society. So they made The Cove and then they made Racing Extinction. Um, so I started just volunteering for Rick and going over to Taiji. And, you know, documenting that the dolphin slaughter was still happening. It was funny when The Cove won the Academy Award. Um, a lot of people were confused when I said that I was going back to Taiji and, and we're like, wait, why are you going back to Taiji? Isn't that, hasn't that stopped?

• 1:19:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's over with now.

• 1:19:23Speaker 01

  And I was like, no, it, it hasn't stopped. It's still going on. Why do you think that it stopped? And they're like, well.

• 1:19:28Rich Roll?

  The movie was made.

• 1:19:29Speaker 01

  The movie won the Academy Award. I just, I guess I just assumed it would end after the movie won the Academy Award. And I was like, oh no, it hasn't ended. It's still going on and it is still happening. Um. It feels, you know, it's one of those issues that you just feel really helpless about because you can, you can stop it by of course, not supporting dolphin shows and not going to places like SeaWorld. Um, but when you're actually physically there, you know, there's nothing you can do to, to help them. You're sort of just bearing witness. It's, it's a very tough trip to make. I was just there. I made my fourth trip there in December. So then through working with Rick O'Barry, I started, you know, getting really passionate about it and I wanted to raise more awareness about it.

• 1:20:13Speaker 01

  So I was doing screenings all over the place and my brother-in-law is Bob Weir from The Grateful Dead and he watched the movie. He.

• 1:20:21Rich Roll?

  That's first of all, like, hold on a second. Like your brother-in-law is in The Grateful Dead. Like that's crazy, right? So you're like, on what side of your family?

• 1:20:32Speaker 01

  So my older sister Natasha is married to Bobby and he's also a super passionate activist. So of course, when I saw The Cove, I then sent him a copy of The Cove and I was like, you guys have to watch this. And he was, of course, like everyone who watches The Cove was so moved and was like, how can I help? So we got a theater in San Francisco to donate their theater for the night. And we did, Bobby played like a little acoustic set, but not, but he played that after we played The Cove. So in order to see Bobby play, so we had a bunch of deadheads.

• 1:21:06Rich Roll?

  Couldn't leave early. Yeah, okay.

• 1:21:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, we had a bunch of deadheads in there and like, you know, doors closed, you watch the film. And then afterwards, um, we did a Q and A and Louis came for that screening. So that was actually the first time that I met Louis. I had emailed with him. But we met for the first time there and so Louis was there, Rick O'Barry, Bobby then played his set and it was all raising awareness and raising funds for Rick O'Barry's Dolphin Project. So that's when Louis and I really started to talk and then then we lit up the Empire State Building, read. This was not with Racing Extinction, but before we were just doing it to raise awareness about the dolphins that were being killed. And it was

• 1:21:48Speaker 01

  when we were there at the Empire State Building, we're having a couple cocktails and, you know, looking at the light. And I said, you know, all these people have seen the Cove, but it's like, it's like the activists and the ocean lovers and the documentary film, you know, geeks and the environmental community, but like the people that are actually buying tickets to the dolphin shows are not watching it. Those are NASCAR fans. Like, what if, do you think we could get a Cove car put together? If I raise the funds, if I did like a crowdfunding and I raised the money to go to the race and I asked Louis if he would donate a thousand DVDs to give away to the fans and I asked Rick if he would

• 1:22:31Speaker 01

  come in and sign autographs. And we ended up putting up a crowdfunding page and we raised all the money to go. And then it was at the race with the Cove car at Daytona that Louis was filming there and he kind of said, so I've got a job for you in our next film. And I didn't know what it was and he couldn't tell me that weekend, but I found out a few weeks later, you know, that they wanted to do projections out of the car. And the funny thing was when they first showed it to me, it was on, the projector was on the back of like a van.

• 1:23:04Rich Roll?

  Right. So Obscura had kind of mocked up like what they wanted to do.

• 1:23:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, it wasn't very sexy looking.

• 1:23:10Rich Roll?

  Like a pervy.

• 1:23:10Speaker 01

  It was, yeah, it was like a white van with like a. And I immediately looked at Louis and I was like, I mean, you want it to be an electric car, right? And he's like, he's like, yeah. And then I immediately was like, well, then we have to get a Tesla. And so, yeah, so then I, then I reached out to Elon and I took Louis.

• 1:23:32Rich Roll?

  So first of all, like, how do you reach out to Elon? Like, how does that happen?

• 1:23:36Speaker 01

  Um, so I had already been in contact with Elon about, yeah, we had already been in contact just because, I mean, naturally, when there's an electric car coming out, that's fast. Like, that was something that, um, interests me. And so we, and we had also connected, um, there was a film called Revenge of the Electric Car, that, um, it was the same guy who did Who Killed the Electric Car, Chris Payne. Um, and I did some driving in that. I drove, uh, Chris Payne's little roadster. Um, so I had met Elon at that, um, the premiere of, of Revenge of the Electric Car. And we had emailed a bunch before. And so anyway, so I just, I told him, like, I really wanted him to meet Louis Sojocas. And so I took Louis

• 1:24:19Speaker 01

  to SpaceX. And we showed Elon the whole idea of like, these cool projections. And we wanna, you know, put this big projector on the car. And it was, it had definitely evolved a lot more than, um, than it was when we showed him.

• 1:24:36Rich Roll?

  You didn't imagine this super James Bond, like, I mean, that movie, that car is like, out of a crazy movie. Like, it could be in Fast and the Furious or something. I mean, it's so sexy and awesome and unique.

• 1:24:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, we, we hadn't even dreamed up the, the color changing thing at that time. It was really just all about the projections. I don't even think we had dreamed up the, the carbon dioxide and methane, uh, camera either. I think it was just all about the projections at that point. Um, and Elon was, of course, like, oh, that's awesome. And then the one thing that, that we, you know, the favor we had to ask for, because at that time, you could not get the fast, sporty versions of the Tesla with vegan seats.

• 1:25:19Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:25:20Speaker 01

  It was only leather. And so I was like, oh, is it, like, we can't have leather in the car, but we still need the fastest one. So then he was like, no, no, I can do that. And but it was a big pain because they had two separate lines. Um, and then I asked for my car for the same thing because I ordered my car around the same time that we ordered the racing extinction one. And then, you know, by fall of that year, they had changed the line so that all now you can have vegan seats in any in any Tesla. And they've even got a vegan leather that's in that they started to offer with the Model X.

• 1:25:57Rich Roll?

  That's pretty new too. I mean, I know that it was it was kind of a running thing for a while that, you know, having the full vegan interior. They didn't initially have that, did they?

• 1:26:06Speaker 01

  So they had, they always had the cloth seats, but they were only available in like the base model. You couldn't, if you got the

• 1:26:13Rich Roll?

  Right, I got you.

• 1:26:13Speaker 01

  Performance version or the performance plus, which is what we got for racing extinction and what I bought. It was only leather. So but then, you know, we he definitely made the exception and then they changed it. I mean, that same year it changed to where anybody could get it. And then you just tell them that you want the steering wheel to also be vegan. And they'll do a vegan steering wheel.

• 1:26:35Rich Roll?

  What is that guy like? What is what is Elon like?

• 1:26:38Speaker 01

  What is Elon like? I mean, he's a genius. He's amazing. Um, he's great. I mean, he's just, he's trying to change the world for the better and he's doing it, you know, he's incredibly smart. He takes on huge, huge challenges and just makes them happen in many ways. Um, you know, I think he's just, uh, one of the most influential and is changing the world in a way that nobody has before. Like, I know people like to compare him to Steve Jobs. And it's like, yeah, Steve Jobs was amazing, but like phones and iPods is not the same as like rockets

• 1:27:21Speaker 01

  that are going to take us to Mars and make us an interplanetary species. Like, that's a

• 1:27:26Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:27Speaker 01

  Totally different kind of changing the world.

• 1:27:29Rich Roll?

  And the solar farms and the

• 1:27:32Speaker 01

  And Tesla.

• 1:27:33Rich Roll?

  The the diversification with which his big dreams are propagating is is just beyond prolific. Like, it's insane, like what he's dreaming up and then actually.

• 1:27:46Rich Roll?

  Actually manifesting.

• 1:27:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:27:49Rich Roll?

  It's really quite something.

• 1:27:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean.

• 1:27:51Rich Roll?

  But he's gotta be like, when you talk, I mean, it's like, he's, he, he just, yeah, he's a genius, but like, you can't be a normal person, like, you know, like, and.

• 1:28:00Speaker 01

  He is a normal person. Yeah, he's funny. He's got a great sense of humor. He's, yeah, he's great. I mean, he is a normal person. I know, like.

• 1:28:10Rich Roll?

  I don't mean that pejoratively, but I mean, like, unique and, and, you know, in very specific ways.

• 1:28:15Speaker 01

  I always feel, I often feel like when people are talking to Elon, that sometimes he's like trying to slow down his brain to be stupid enough to understand his normal.

• 1:28:28Rich Roll?

  He's gotta dumb it down so that he can be present with whatever he's hearing.

• 1:28:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I think he's just, you know, he's, he's, he thinks about really big issues, really big, deep things like, um, artificial intelligence is something, you know, that I started to learn about. That's very scary. I don't know if you.

• 1:28:48Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm up on that. I mean, he's one of the few, uh, you know, influential individuals who's coming out and saying, listen, you know, this is really scary stuff. We gotta like really think hard and long about how we're doing this, or we're gonna get ourselves into some really big trouble. And, you know, he's sounding alarms that I think other people think are premature, but, you know, I, I would stake my, uh, bet in his perspective.

• 1:29:16Speaker 01

  There's a really good book that, um, I read on Elon's recommendation about artificial intelligence. It's called, um, Our Final Invention.

• 1:29:28Speaker 01

  If that doesn't.

• 1:29:28Rich Roll?

  Right, like, it's all baked into that title, right?

• 1:29:31Speaker 01

  Right there.

• 1:29:32Rich Roll?

  We're gonna innovate ourselves right out of our, our, our survival, our ability to survive.

• 1:29:38Speaker 01

  It's a fantastic book. Um, you should definitely, if it interests you at all, this whole AI thing, I would definitely check it out. I mean, yeah, there's just so many, yeah, he's involved with like so many interesting things, but he's, yeah, I mean, he's funny and he's nice and he's kind and he's caring and he, you know, he's overwhelmed by all the stuff that he's doing, right? Like, he's got SpaceX and Tesla and like, it's a lot that he's doing. And I remember when we walked through the factory, like, he was talking about, like. You know, none of the other three car companies were building electric car like it's not like I didn't know like the odds were against me and I was most likely gonna totally fail.

• 1:30:22Speaker 01

  And that this was gonna be a total nightmare like and he, you know, at the time they were losing tons and tons of money. They had just won Motor Trend Car of the Year, but they were still losing millions and millions every quarter. And, you know, because they were having to invest so much in the infrastructure and the charging. And then developing the cars and it was just so much and I mean, he basically said like I I did it because like none of them were doing it and they weren't gonna do it and it's true. They were not.

• 1:30:51Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:51Speaker 01

  None of the big three were making any sort of effort to get us off of fossil fuels. And it pisses me off because it's this, it's this thing of like the old guard that doesn't have to innovate because we're just stuck with their product because all of us have to have wheels. We all need to get to work. We all need to, you know, drive around. We have to have cars and there was no choice in the system for so many years. The oil companies drove for the oil and the car companies sell us these internal combustion engine cars. And you have no choice, even if you hate the oil companies, you had to, you know, own a car and drive a car.

• 1:31:32Rich Roll?

  And and those companies are are living and breathing on quarterly profits. So there's a lot more incentive to make sure that your bottom line and your revenues are on point. Uh, you know, for Q one, Q two, you know, whatever than it is what's happening in 10 years, you know, it's because these people that they're, you know, they're not the the executives that work in these companies like, you know, I wouldn't vilify them. They're just capitalists doing their job and they're trying to protect their job, right? So who's the person who's in charge of of foreseeing and forecasting? You know, beyond that, like that person is going to go to the CEO and say, you need to take all of this revenue and reinvest it in in new ways of manufacturing. So we can develop batteries and, you know, it's like

• 1:32:15Rich Roll?

  that's gonna end up in losses, right? And Wall Street's not gonna look favorably on that. So systemically, it doesn't encourage or induce those companies that are stuck in that system to, you know, do what Elon's able, you know, has been able to do.

• 1:32:30Speaker 01

  But he, I mean, he came really close to failing.

• 1:32:33Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:33Speaker 01

  Tesla came really close to going under and.

• 1:32:38Speaker 01

  I'm I'm super stoked to see all these new electric cars that are coming out and how all the other companies are jumping on the bandwagon now. It's great. But to me, my, you know, my loyalty and my respect will always lie with Tesla because if Tesla hadn't done what they did, nothing would be changing. These guys are only building electric cars now because they have to compete with Tesla.

• 1:33:02Rich Roll?

  Right, because a new market has been created and they've got to compete in that. Yeah, I would agree with that completely.

• 1:33:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I mean, even if you take away like SpaceX and AI and solar and you just focus on what he did with the transportation industry, like that alone, I think, has changed the world in a bigger way than Apple.

• 1:33:22Rich Roll?

  And Racing Extinction is this big success. Tons of people see this movie.

• 1:33:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:26Rich Roll?

  And and you have since gone, I mean, you've done a lot of things. You've like marched with Mark Ruffalo and Leonardo DiCaprio. You spoke at the you spoke at the UN in Geneva, right? Like you're traveling a lot and and, you know, you're not just at the Veg Fest, like you're you're Brent, you're really, you know, in front of influential crowds of people. So how do you think about, you know, how you approach those kinds of people and and and carry the message?

• 1:33:52Speaker 01

  I mean, I hope more and more people will start speaking up about this stuff. I feel like um, I feel like one of the reasons people don't speak up is because, you know, Leo gets trashed all the time for being an environmentalist, yet he flies on a plane. And I'm like, what do you expect Leo to do? Is he supposed to like ride a bike to, I mean, can we please be a little bit?

• 1:34:19Rich Roll?

  Ed Bakley Jr. on it?

• 1:34:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, can we be like realistic here? People, you know, I mean, when we marched in the climate march, the People's Climate March in New York, like I remember there was a reporter coming up like trying to harass him and, you know, saying something like, oh, you know, it's great that you do all these great things. Do you want to talk about the fuel use on the yacht that you were on? Or, you know, just these ridiculous um, people that are so critical. And I see that on when I share stuff that Leo does, I'll see, I'll always see these negative comments about, oh, you know, really rich coming from him. You know, is he getting on his private jet and flying off to some yacht? And I'm just like, He has done so much to help the environmental movement. He does that, you know, auction every

• 1:35:02Speaker 01

  year in Saint Tropez. He raises like forty million dollars at those events and that all gets given away to these wonderful environmental organizations that are on the front lines, that are fighting, you know, for all these really important issues all over the globe. And so yet, but if Leo flies on a plane, like he's just, you know, he's ruined it all. And I feel like because people attack, like if somebody comes and speaks out about an issue, they get attacked so much because you're not perfect. Well, none of us are perfect. All of us have a carbon footprint. There's nothing we can do about that. You know, I mean,

• 1:35:40Rich Roll?

  But it's gonna make the next person, you know, the next version of Leo think twice about dipping his or her toe.

• 1:35:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, they don't.

• 1:35:46Rich Roll?

  It's like, I don't, I don't need this.

• 1:35:48Speaker 01

  I don't wanna get all the crap that he's getting. So why would I go march?

• 1:35:52Rich Roll?

  Leonardo DiCaprio doesn't have to do anything that he doesn't wanna do. You know, he's making a conscious choice to, you know, spend a lot of his time and resources in this realm so that he can leverage the influence that he has through the movies that he's made to make a positive difference. And if that means he has to get on a plane, because by getting on a plane, he gets to go to a certain place where he has the potential to influence influencers and raise money or whatever it is, you have to factor that into the total carbon equation that gets calculated into the cost benefit analysis of the work that he does.

• 1:36:28Speaker 01

  He has by far more than offset the impact that he's having when he gets on a plane. And that really frustrates me. And that's one of the things that, that just bugs me and it makes me think, well, you know, if I was some up and coming actor, maybe I wouldn't go march in the climate march because I'm seeing all these horrible, you know, comments to Leo. So, you know, Hats off to Leo for being, you know, brave and being out there and having to deal with all the crap that he deals with because of it. But he's, he is doing so much for the environmental movement and he's, you know, he really believes it. He's truly like

• 1:37:10Speaker 01

  an environmentalist through and through. So I have tons of respect for him and Mark Ruffalo as well. He's amazing. He's come to a couple of my races. We did a race car in 2014 that was fighting for 100% renewable energy. So it was in conjunction with a group called The Solutions Project that works on, to accelerate clean energy and Mark Ruffalo is one of the founders of that. And he's just great. Like, he, he went up to the, to the DAP all March or the, the camp and brought solar panels up there so that they were able to have power. Like, he's just so cool. He's totally, you know, he's on the front lines

• 1:37:52Speaker 01

  and that's the kind of stuff that I like. That's the kind of activism I like. I, you know, I mean, petitions are great and writing letters are great, but there, there's nothing, I feel like, more rewarding than like actually like being on the street.

• 1:38:06Rich Roll?

  Showing up.

• 1:38:06Speaker 01

  And, yeah, show up. Like, it's great to share it on Facebook. That's awesome. But like, we need you to like take to the streets. Like, I'm gonna go up to DC for the climate march on April 29th. There's gonna be a huge march. There's also one on Earth Day on April 22nd called the Science March. But I can't be there for that. I, we're actually doing a screening of Racing Extinction at Earth Day, Texas. So I couldn't go to that one, but I'm gonna drive the Tesla up to the, to the climate march. And I think it's gonna be huge. Al Gore just said he was gonna be marching. So I think it's gonna be big.

• 1:38:42Rich Roll?

  That's cool. And his, his new movie is coming out soon, right? The follow-up to An Inconvenient Truth. Have you seen it yet? Have you heard anything about it?

• 1:38:49Speaker 01

  I haven't seen it yet. I don't know if it'll be at Earth Day, Texas. I'll have to look. One of the new environmental films that I'm really excited to see is a film called Chasing Coral. It's by the same people that made Chasing Ice, Jeff Orlovsky.

• 1:39:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:39:05Speaker 01

  I have heard amazing things about it. It, it debuted at Sundance and actually Luis Sojuez, our director from Racing Extinction, was there and he said it was just really fantastic.

• 1:39:15Rich Roll?

  Oh, that's cool.

• 1:39:16Speaker 01

  So I'm excited to see that. That's playing at Earth Day, Texas. So I'll see it next week. Um, but yeah, I mean, there's so many good films coming out. Leo did that. Um, the film that aired on Nat Geo, um, before the flood. Uh, I mean, we the more the better.

• 1:39:31Rich Roll?

  He also is responsible for a conspiracy getting onto Netflix. That's another thing he didn't have to do, you know, he put his name on that movie.

• 1:39:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a fantastic movie.

• 1:39:41Rich Roll?

  Are Leo and Mark working on another documentary, like a more like fracking oil industry oriented film?

• 1:39:49Speaker 01

  Um, I don't know if they are. Is that what you heard?

• 1:39:52Rich Roll?

  I, yeah, maybe I heard it wrong though. I don't know.

• 1:39:55Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I don't know. I haven't heard anything about that.

• 1:39:57Rich Roll?

  Louis is working on the Game Changers movie, right?

• 1:39:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:59Rich Roll?

  So that'll be exciting.

• 1:40:00Speaker 01

  Vegan athletes and this is, okay, so when we were at Daytona and we were giving away the vegan food and I'm kind of little and it was so great because I had David Carter standing next to me and I think for guys, you know, they see me and I'm short and little and petite and they think, well, you're vegan, but you're this little girl. And so I was like, kind of, yeah, that's, that's David Carter. He's like a NFL player and he's vegan and they were like, really? I even thought that was funny. There was a couple and, uh, when I told them, you know, that he was vegan, the wife looked at, looked at me, looked at David and then said to her husband, um, so, or actually, no, sorry. She said to, she turns to me and she said,

• 1:40:44Speaker 01

  will my husband look like that if he goes vegan?

• 1:40:48Rich Roll?

  Yes, it's a hundred percent guarantee.

• 1:40:50Speaker 01

  So funny. Um, so yeah, the Game Changers movie that Lu, that Louis is working on now is, um, all about vegan athletes. And it's all these amazing people like you. I'm sure you were gonna be in the film, right?

• 1:41:03Rich Roll?

  No, I'm not, I'm not in the movie. I'm not in the movie, but I'm excited to see it.

• 1:41:07Speaker 01

  So it's all, it's all these amazing vegan athletes. It's like really badass athletes, right? Like UFC fighters and MMA fighters and football players and these really tough guys and it will dispel that myth. You know, that silly myth that you can't get enough protein from a plant-based diet. I got asked that on the airplane ride here when I was flying here to LA and I told the, um, flight attendant that I was vegan. And the guy next to me turns to me and said, he's like, oh, you're vegan. I have a friend that's vegan, but how do you get your protein? I just, it's like a question as a vegan that you just answer over and over and I try so

• 1:41:50Speaker 01

  hard to not get annoyed by it, but it's just, it happens almost every day.

• 1:41:54Rich Roll?

  You gotta get up for that question.

• 1:41:56Speaker 01

  How do you answer it? What do you say?

• 1:41:58Rich Roll?

  I say that, uh, that there's a lot of misconceptions about protein and what it is and how much we need. And what I have learned is that plants have protein in them. And I've been doing this for over 10 years and I just turned 50 and I can go out and kill it with the best of them. I've never had any problem building lean muscle mass or recovering in between workouts. And I've been able to do things in my 40s that I never thought would be possible for me as an athlete. Uh, and it turns out like you can do just fine without animal protein. Uh, and it's really not what we need to be thinking about or worried about. But you know, it's the question that comes up. It's what everyone wants to know. And so I try

• 1:42:42Rich Roll?

  really hard to make sure that I'm present for that. I think if you scoff or you get irritated, like that's not gonna, you know, that's not gonna be a productive conversation.

• 1:42:52Speaker 01

  I know. I have to work on that a little bit because that, I just, I've heard it so many times that it like, it bugs me now when I hear it. I'm just like, really? Oh, this question again.

• 1:43:01Rich Roll?

  But you're projecting onto them as if that person had asked you a hundred times.

• 1:43:05Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:43:06Rich Roll?

  For them, it's brand new.

• 1:43:07Speaker 01

  That's something I need to work on. Um, because that's sort of like my pet peeve when people ask me that. Um, but yeah, I feel like, I mean, I feel like we're taking off, right? We're slowly taking over the world.

• 1:43:22Rich Roll?

  It's a super exciting time. I've never seen more mainstream receptivity to these ideas, whether it is, you know, animal rights, environmental concerns, you know, the health implications of the food that we're eating. Uh, people are waking up and that is due in no small part to, uh, the poor health that people find themselves in, the recognition of the environmental damage that we've perpetrated, uh, and a greater understanding of what's going on in these factory farms that have spent decades trying to make sure that we don't understand. But when you have drones and you have social media, that stuff gets out. And I think the younger generation is much more.

• 1:44:05Rich Roll?

  Uh adamant about transparency and wanting to understand the, you know, the chain of custody and how their products are made, et cetera. And so I think we're at a really interesting tipping point where awareness and a willingness to advocate are coinciding and sort of congealing in a way that is really creating a recipe for some profound change. And so I'm optimistic and I'm encouraged. There's a lot of work that needs to be done.

• 1:44:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:44:32Rich Roll?

  To continue to raise awareness and to continue to, you know, get people to actually change their behavior. Cause that's the metric. It's like you can retweet something or share something on Facebook and get a dopamine release and feel like you actually did something, but that's not actually enough. You know, you have to like look in the mirror and you have to take stock and inventory of the actions that you're taking and adjust when they're not in alignment with your values and, you know, create that behavioral change until it's sustained and becomes just a lifestyle habit. And the more and more people that are making those changes, you know, that, that's what creates this ground swell of people

• 1:45:13Rich Roll?

  that will ultimately lead to a tipping point. And so for me, it's about fanning the flames of, of positive change. Like if I see a spark, I'm going to go, I'm going to rush over to that spark and, and try to turn that spark into a little bit of a blaze. Right? And I think we need to think about how we advocate so that we're not throwing water on that spark.

• 1:45:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:45:34Rich Roll?

  By criticizing them for not being perfect. Like the person that criticizes Leo because he flies in a private jet, you know, similarly, if, if you're, you know, an animal rights advocate or you're a vegan activist and, you know, somebody is telling you about how excited they are about the vegan meal they had yesterday, but they're wearing leather shoes and you make the choice to criticize them for their shoes.

• 1:45:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:45:55Rich Roll?

  I don't think that's a productive thing to do.

• 1:45:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:45:58Rich Roll?

  You know what I mean? So why not celebrate the change that they are making and get them excited about making more changes or making that change more permanent in their life.

• 1:46:07Speaker 01

  Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

• 1:46:09Rich Roll?

  Yeah, never. You know, absolutely.

• 1:46:12Speaker 01

  Um, when you were talking about the wildfire, it it reminded me of something that I always like, keep in mind when I'm getting depressed or overwhelmed about all of these problems that the world has. And it was a study that was done in 2011 by a group of scientists that wanted to figure out if there was a tipping point for ideas. Like, is there a point of no return where it reaches a level where it's going to spread to the rest of the society? And, um, after doing quite a bit of research, they found that if just 10% of a population has an unwavering belief in an idea, that it's actually inevitable that the majority

• 1:46:55Speaker 01

  of the rest of the society accept that idea. And so 10% feels really doable, right? I I think across the board, the the three things that I have the most, um, excitement about as far as like solving all these problems or helping slow slow down what we're doing is solar power, which is dropping in price, you know, drastically and is in many cases already cheaper than coal. Uh, electric cars, which we already talked talked extensively about, and plant-based diet. Like, those three things, I feel like we're at 10% or we're rapidly approaching 10%.

• 1:47:38Speaker 01

  Where I I don't think there's any any ability for anyone to stop those three from spreading across the whole world.

• 1:47:47Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I think it's accelerating. And I think the key to success, the way that you win that battle, is you take a page out of the Elon Musk playbook. When he created a an electric car, he didn't create like a little, you know, crappy little Kia thing that like no one that you would be embarrassed to drive in. He's like, if I want to, if it's going to be environmentally sustainable, it can't be a sacrifice for people. So not only does it need to be fast and cool and beautiful, uh, it has to be better than everything else available in every category. And then it becomes inevitable that you are going to desire it. And I think you need to apply that template to,

• 1:48:27Rich Roll?

  you know, these other systems. So when you look at food, the vegan food options have to taste better. They have to be price competitive, if not cheaper. They have to be convenient and, and, and, and more sustainable. So when you, if you can check all of those boxes, so it meets the price point, it actually tastes better. It's healthier for you, you know, no animals or all of those things have to be in check. And you remove all the excuses and the obstacles between that product and the sort of suspicious consumer.

• 1:48:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:48:58Rich Roll?

  Where it becomes like, of course I would buy this. This is just a better product, right? So you have to out innovate because you're not going to win by expecting people to sacrifice taste and all these. It's not going to work. You know what I mean? So food has to be better, you know, and, and that applies to clothing, like, you know, there's a lot of, we, we still need, we have a long way to go with, with the clothing industry, I think. And there's, look, there's, you know, quote unquote vegan clothing out there that is part of the fast fashion industry. That is, you know, creating all kinds of havoc on the environment. So it's not as simple as just animal free. Like it's, it's, it's, it's more complicated than that, right? But to the extent that we can continue to innovate across all of these industries.

• 1:49:43Rich Roll?

  And, and, you know, pulling Elon Musk in every category, then you win.

• 1:49:49Speaker 01

  One of the places that I think is doing that and is going to do that is have you had the Impossible Burger yet?

• 1:49:59Rich Roll?

  I haven't yet. Uh, I have not, yeah, I haven't tried it yet, but I, but I'm going, it's, it's on the, it's on the list.

• 1:50:05Speaker 01

  So right before I raced at Daytona, I went to their, um, to their headquarters in San Francisco. And Louis was with me too. And we took a tour and. I was totally blown away. I mean, the last time that I like walked through a company, I was like, whoa, this is gonna be huge. The last time I had that feeling was when I walked through the Tesla factory. They're doing some cool stuff over there. So next time you're in San Francisco, you should definitely stop in there.

• 1:50:33Rich Roll?

  I just had Bruce Friedrich on the podcast. He's, you know, very involved in that company and Memphis Meats and some of the other, you know, plant-based, you know, startup food industries.

• 1:50:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:43Rich Roll?

  And we talked extensively about Impossible. I mean, they just opened this huge facility in Oakland, right? So they're gonna be able to scale manufacturing. Because the big thing with that is the price point. So they have to reach scale in order to make it an affordable product. But everybody who's tasted the Impossible burger says it's unbelievable, like it's indistinguishable from beef, right?

• 1:51:03Speaker 01

  It's amazing. I mean, I, I don't know how they did what they did, but when we were walking through, you know, their lab, there was, there was like one room that was like sealed off and you could see the scientist sitting in the, in the middle of the room. And she was, they were explaining that she was just smelling, she was just smelling mixes of different smells. And because your taste buds and what you're eating and tasting is very much tied to what you're smelling. So she was just, all these computers around her and she was just like distinguishing different smell. I mean, I was just so impressed with what they had going on there. And they hadn't opened that big, the big production side yet

• 1:51:48Speaker 01

  that they just opened. So they were just making smaller amounts at that time. But yeah, now they're, I mean, I think, I think they're gonna do well. And there's room for, you know, there to be a lot of vegan companies that can be successful out there. But I was really impressed by what they were doing. And

• 1:52:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, I think-

• 1:52:05Speaker 01

  There's more and more every day. I feel like every time I go to the grocery store, I'm seeing new vegan options that weren't there the last time I went.

• 1:52:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah, for sure. And I, I think the other kind of aspect of that equation of succeeding or reaching that 10% tipping point, from a, you know, macro business kind of Wall Street perspective, is

• 1:52:26Rich Roll?

  Is that there is huge opportunity, huge profit opportunity in moving into this space. So do you want to be part of the old system? Or do you want to be on the Elon page and innovating? And be part of the opportunity that's presented by creating these new, you know, these new plant-based foods, whether it's in food, or it's in fashion, or whatever consumer product that is kind of in alignment with these more environmentally friendly practices and et cetera. So I think it's cool and I see it moving in that direction. I wish it was moving faster. You know, there's certainly a lot of work to be done, but I think it is a really cool time. And I just feel excited to be, you know, around for it.

• 1:53:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's an exciting time to be alive. And just on the note that you made about clothing, the Vegination shirt that I gave you is printed. Yes, it's printed on sustainable cellulose.

• 1:53:22Rich Roll?

  Oh, cool.

• 1:53:23Speaker 01

  And it's printed at a solar factory. So the factory that it's made at is completely powered by solar.

• 1:53:29Rich Roll?

  It says it on the label, "Vegination, made in the USA with 100% solar power and fabric from sustainable cellulose," which is plant fiber.

• 1:53:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:53:38Rich Roll?

  That's crazy. I didn't know you could make T-shirts out of cellulose.

• 1:53:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So this, actually, the place where I'm making it is not far from here. It's in Long Beach.

• 1:53:46Rich Roll?

  Oh, cool. Is that why you came to LA?

• 1:53:48Speaker 01

  No, I was here, well, I wanted to do this. This is one of the reasons I came here, but I was also filming a PSA, which I see you have his name on your wall here with Adrian.

• 1:54:00Rich Roll?

  Oh, Adrian Green. Yeah, we've been, I've been emailing back and forth about trying to get him on the podcast.

• 1:54:04Speaker 01

  Oh, great.

• 1:54:05Rich Roll?

  So I wish I'd known that. I would have told you to wrangle him a little bit because we came close and then we can't, because he's always, you know, he's traveling a lot. And so, and I don't want to bug him either, but you know, I think he wants to do it. So maybe I'm going to enlist you to help me get him on.

• 1:54:21Speaker 01

  Okay. Yeah, yeah, that's fine. He's really great and he's got, he's got, yeah, that's what we were doing.

• 1:54:26Rich Roll?

  Like no sucking anymore, like get rid of your straws.

• 1:54:29Speaker 01

  Stop sucking, hashtag stop sucking. So yesterday was, they did a PSA and there were a whole bunch of people like, and I don't know when this is going to come out. So like, they were like, don't share anything on social media. So. I'm not sure if it'll be, I think it'll be out by the time this airs, but they were like, we're not supposed to talk about it yet.

• 1:54:47Rich Roll?

  Alright, well, let me, let me, let me know.

• 1:54:48Speaker 01

  But we were, um, yeah, I mean, there was like all these different actors and, um, Van Jones was there and Philippe Costeau. And, uh, I mean, there were people in and out all day and I was only there, um, later towards the end of the day. Um, but yeah, it was all about like trying to get people to not use plastic straws anymore. And I actually, I don't have, it's in my purse, but I've got a metal straw that I've been carrying around in my purse, um, that I got from the Plastic Pollution Coalition like years ago. They go to like concerts and big events and they just give away these, these metal, um, straws and, and now, now like, once you become aware of it, then it's like another thing. Like when I go to the grocery store and I see people still using plastic bags, I'm like, really? Seriously? Like still plastic?

• 1:55:33Speaker 01

  Now, now that's happening with me with the straws. Now I'm sitting in the bar and I'm like looking around and I'm just seeing all those little plastic, you know, uh, black stir straws and sometimes two of them.

• 1:55:45Rich Roll?

  Straws are the new plastic bag.

• 1:55:46Speaker 01

  They are, it really is. So now I'm like really sensitive to it and I'm seeing it everywhere. And, uh, yeah, now every restaurant that I go into, I'm like, have you guys thought about?

• 1:55:54Rich Roll?

  Right. So we need, we need metal straw companies. There's your, there's your market opportunity.

• 1:55:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, metal, glass, and then I even heard somebody saying that there's like bamboo ones that are made, that are, you know, really the bamboo grows so fast and.

• 1:56:08Rich Roll?

  And straws.

• 1:56:09Speaker 01

  I don't know how we're going to solve it, but I mean, Adrian is, you know, heading up this campaign and, and, and I know that they're going to like, their goal is to go and like get businesses and really big like, you know, sports teams and things like that to like make the switch. And so you're, you're kind of, if you get the big organizations and the companies to do it and the restaurants and the resorts, you know, then it's not really in the hands of the consumer to make a good or bad choice. It's been, the good choice has been made for them. And I think that's probably the best way to do this because it's just, it's just habit. I find that even when I order a drink and I say, no plastic straw, sometimes the bartender just out of habit, like.

• 1:56:49Rich Roll?

  Doesn't.

• 1:56:50Speaker 01

  Puts it in and then says, oh, sorry, I'm sorry. I know you said no straw. And I, it's just habit because I do that with every drink. And so I think it's going to be hard to get them, they, they're not going to stop using straws. It's just they have to be swapped out for something that's not ending up in the ocean and. Killing all the animals that we're killing. Oh, we're just an awful species, aren't we? I'm, I'm a big believer in like, we have 7.4 billion people on the planet. Like, this is, this is one of the things that I find to be frustrating, that I feel like a lot of the environmental community doesn't talk about. It's like the big white elephant is standing in the room that nobody mentions. But, you know, if you, if you read on what the ecologists have found

• 1:57:35Speaker 01

  and what they say that like humans, if we were all living in like relative, you know, prosper, that the amount that the earth can handle is like 2 billion. We're adding like 300,000 people to the planet every day practically. And so like imagine a city. And so as much as like going, like I'm, you know, vegan, solar, electric car. If we keep adding 300,000 people more every day to the planet, like net growth. I mean, this is just, it's simple math. This is not sustainable. This cannot, uh, we cannot keep going on this route. And so I've started talking about that a little bit.

• 1:58:18Speaker 01

  And, you know, there's like 134 million orphans in the world that are looking for homes. So if you, you know, have that real, you know, drive to be a parent, there is that option of, you know, helping a child that's already here on earth that doesn't have a family. And when I talked about this, I was at an environmental event and I kind of threw out my normal talk and I just talked about population. And it was so sweet after I left. I was waiting for the elevator and this girl, like maybe in her early twenties, came running up to me and just gave me the hugest hug. She almost was crying and said, "Thank you so much for talking about the orphans, because if my mom had had her own kids, she never would have found me."

• 1:59:00Speaker 01

  And I was just like, "Oh, this is like, this is an important issue we need to start talking about." So that's like the next, I feel like that's the next big thing that... It's an uncomfortable subject. I know people get really uncomfortable with it, but for environmental reasons, we don't need to keep increasing. Like, we at least need to start talking about like, choosing just to have one or two, so that you're just like replacing yourselves and you're not bringing like the numbers up. Then, you know, two is at least then you're not growing population. But it's like people are having, you know, what's that family that's on Discovery Channel that's had like nineteen kids and then they've got like fifty grandkids already?

• 1:59:44Speaker 01

  And I'm just like, and you're like glorifying these people and putting them on a TV show like.

• 1:59:49Rich Roll?

  Well, it's a human curiosity, you know, I mean, I have four kids, so.

• 1:59:53Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:59:54Rich Roll?

  Well, two stepsons and two daughters.

• 1:59:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:59:57Rich Roll?

  You know, and our nephew lives with us too, so we took him in. But, um, but, uh, yeah, I mean, I hear what you're saying. I can't, I can't disagree with that.

• 2:00:06Speaker 01

  I just want more.

• 2:00:07Rich Roll?

  I haven't practiced that in my life, but.

• 2:00:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that, I mean, that's, that's okay. I mean, we need people to still have kids, right? Like, it wouldn't be great if everybody made, like, me and my husband consciously made the choice to be child, child free. And that was partly because I, I had a professor at UCSD, a biochemistry professor, actually, that one day we came into class and he's like, we're not talking about biochemistry today. I'm showing you a film about population. And I was just blown away. And I remember walking all across the campus to talk to him about population. So, um, we certainly need people, especially wonderful people like you that are doing great things for the planet, to keep breeding. But we also need to make it okay and normalize it a little bit for

• 2:00:53Speaker 01

  people that make the choice to be child free and to not feel like judged and not feel like.

• 2:00:59Rich Roll?

  Yeah, like, when are you gonna, when are you gonna stop with this race car stuff and start having babies, right?

• 2:01:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh my God, when I got married, one of the people at the wedding, like, you know, more, more distant relative on my husband's side was like congratulating us and said, so you're gonna, I mean, now you're gonna stop with the racing, right? Now that you're, now that you're married.

• 2:01:22Speaker 01

  Um, no, I'm sorry. Did you like just quit your whole life because you got married?

• 2:01:27Rich Roll?

  Yes, life is over now.

• 2:01:29Speaker 01

  Not gonna happen. Um, but anyways, that's a new subject that I feel like. And I found that when I talk about it and I say, you know, I, I made the choice to be child free because I feel like, you know, with all my activism or anything, it'd be very hard for me to be able to manage like racing and activism and also like having a child. As you know, I have two nieces, three nieces, um, two sisters, uh, one sister has two kids and one has one. And it's so much work and there's no way that I would have the energy to be able to do all my activism and, you know, try and manage all of these things.

• 2:02:05Rich Roll?

  But you shouldn't have to justify that decision. That's the point.

• 2:02:09Speaker 01

  But for some reason, like our society feels like you're doing something wrong. If you, I feel like there is that. And you'll find all kinds of communities on, on Facebook that are, you know, like, we made the choice to be child free and like, they're finding each other because they're trying to find other people that accept that you made that decision and aren't like, oh, well, you just did that because you're selfish and you're all about your career or, you know, what's wrong with you? You don't like kids? And it's like, no, I love kids. I totally love kids. I love my nieces so much. I love being an auntie. I love coming into town and getting to like spoil them and take them on shopping trips and I, I love being around kids. It's just, that's enough for me. And I just want

• 2:02:54Speaker 01

  people to start talking about that because I feel like as soon as we start talking about it, it normalizes it a little bit. And then other people that have been thinking about it are like, I've always thought about it, but I never bring it up because it's kind of awkward and it feels kind of like a subject you shouldn't bring up. And it's like, okay, we're at 7.4 billion. We're on track to be at over 10 billion people by 2050. Can we start talking about population now? Like, when is it okay for us to start talking about it? And I think the answer is now.

• 2:03:25Rich Roll?

  I think that's a good place to wrap it up.

• 2:03:29Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:03:29Rich Roll?

  But I can't let you go without sort of leading the listener with some ideas about how to get more involved, right? So if someone's listening to this and they're like, I'm inspired, like, I'm like, I want to do something. So obviously, you can modify your own behavior. You can be more mindful and conscious about the choices that you're making around food and the consumer products that you're choosing and the, you know, the greenhouse gas emissions that you're contributing to the planet and make adjustments that way. And understand that in this culture where we feel disempowered or like our vote doesn't count, that there are really some very powerful, tangible, simple changes that you can make

• 2:04:14Rich Roll?

  that can make a difference, that make a real difference. But beyond that, if somebody wants to get more involved in the kind of activism side of this equation, do you have places that you recommend people can visit? I mean, obviously, your website and all that kind of stuff to learn more about you. But are there certain nonprofits that you think are better than others? Or how can people, you know, dip their toe in and start to, you know, flex their muscles in the world in which you live?

• 2:04:41Speaker 01

  So there's so many great nonprofits out there and so many organizations doing great things. But some of the ones that I'm personally, you know, dedicate my time to working with is Oceanic Preservation Society, which is the group that made the Cove and Racing Extinction. Obviously, Rick O'Berry's Dolphin Project, you know, who Rick is the star of the Cove. And really, I feel like, you know, the godfather of the anti-captivity movement for cetaceans. And then the Solutions Project is the group that I've been working with on clean energy issues. So that's all about, you know, letting people know that it's possible for us to get 100% renewable energy.

• 2:05:23Speaker 01

  And one of the guys that, and this is the organization that we talked about earlier, about Mark Ruffalo, one of the founders is a guy named Mark Jacobson, and he is a professor at Stanford, and he specializes in energy. And he's created this amazing plan for Every single one of the fifty states, how each of those states can be run off of a hundred percent renewable energy.

• 2:05:44Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:05:44Speaker 01

  So there's no like excuse where, you know, the government or the governor is like, is like, ah, yeah, I mean, but how would we do it? And he's just, he's got an actual plan for every single state on how they can get there. I mean, he's just, he's just really brilliant. And so I, I like, the thing I like about Solutions Project, it's like all these people with different, there's a business guy on it and there's, you know, the scientist, Mark Jacobson, and then you've got Ruffalo, who's reaching, um, you know, a broad group of people through his, you know, being a famous actor. And they've just, they've got this interesting mix of people from all these different kinds of worlds. Um, so when I ran the clean energy cars that was with them, um, but I just, I mean, there's obviously tons of amazing, uh, groups out there.

• 2:06:29Speaker 01

  I've also been, um, my partner with the vegan powered car was a group called A Well-Fed World. Um, and I really like their philosophy is to combat two, um, issues of suffering that shouldn't exist in the world today. Um, one being human hunger and the other being animal suffering. And so they go into areas that are, um, struggling with hunger and they bring in vegan food. And so it's reducing suffering not only for humans, but also for the animals. Um, and then World Animal News, um, uh, which is Katie Cleary's group. I don't know if you're familiar with, it's called World Animal News. And it's just all, all of them, it's like basically like a, like a CNN, but just about animals.

• 2:07:12Speaker 01

  So any animal news story will, will go up there. And, um, they were also a partner with the, the vegan powered car. So I was actually really close to having to cancel the vegan tent, um, cause I had raised enough money, um, from a well-fed world, had sponsored the race car. So the race car was taken care of, but then I went crowdfunding to find the funds to, um, to, to have the tent and give away the food and bring in the chef and.

• 2:07:39Rich Roll?

  Has anybody else ever crowdfunded a NASCAR?

• 2:07:44Speaker 01

  I don't know if anybody else has. That was the third one that I've done. The first one was the Cove in 2012, then Blackfish in 2014, and then this vegan-powered car. And I don't know if anybody else has done that. That's a really good question. I don't know if on that really high, you know, on the higher levels where it's really that expensive. I'm sure people have done it in the lower levels of the sport where it's a little bit cheaper. But thankfully, yeah, we had such good coverage and so much positive feedback on the vegan-powered car and the tent and the food giveaway at Daytona that both A Well-Fed World and World Animal News are coming back again to do Talladega on May 15. So that's the one that I would love for you to come. I mean, it's, you've never

• 2:08:29Speaker 01

  been to a NASCAR race.

• 2:08:30Rich Roll?

  Never been. Landon's invited me a couple times and I've never, I've never been able to make it work.

• 2:08:34Speaker 01

  Well, he'll be racing that weekend, too. So I'll race on Friday and Landon will be racing on Sunday. And in the meantime, you're also going to have free vegan food to eat at my tent all weekend. So it's going to be hard for you to say no to this one, I think.

• 2:08:50Rich Roll?

  I'll, I'll look at the calendar. I'll get back to you on that. And I'll put links in the show notes to all of those organizations that you just spoke about. And that's it. Thank you so much for doing this. That was really fantastic. I really appreciate it. You are a bold, strong, fearless, powerful female leader. We need more people like you. And so I really appreciate the work that you do and the love that you put into the advocacy and how you merge sport with advocacy, I think is a really cool model that I would like to see more athletes emulate. And it's just amazing what you've been able to accomplish. So I'm excited for you for Talladega, but more importantly, I'm excited to see kind

• 2:09:34Rich Roll?

  of what you do over the next couple of years. It's been really cool spending time with you.

• 2:09:39Speaker 01

  Thank you. It was an honor to be here.

• 2:09:40Rich Roll?

  Great. So if you're digging on Leilani, the best place to get in touch with her is your website, leilanimunter.com. And you're pretty easy to find on Twitter and Instagram. It's just your name everywhere, pretty much, right?

• 2:09:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, actually, so the website to send them to would be leilani-green.

• 2:09:57Rich Roll?

  Oh, okay, that's right.

• 2:09:58Speaker 01

  There's a new, there's a new, a new extension that's dot green. So instead of dot com, it's kind of like, well, I, I feel like it's sort of for environmental. Organizations more, but um yeah, so I bought Leilani dot green because I felt like I had to move away from carbon free girl because I'm 43 years old now. I turned 43 on race day at Daytona. And I was like, I feel like I've sort of outgrown the girl thing. Like, I can't really call myself carbon free girl anymore.

• 2:10:26Rich Roll?

  You can call yourself whatever you want.

• 2:10:28Speaker 01

  I know. I just feel like, yeah, at 43, I'm, I'm getting a little old to call myself girl. Um, so anyways, so that's when I was like, I have to do something new. So I did Leilani dot green.

• 2:10:39Rich Roll?

  I love it. Great. And Leilani Muntar on Twitter, Instagram, all those other places, right?

• 2:10:44Speaker 01

  Yep. Just, well, I just do Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. I know everybody's doing the Snapchat thing, but I just, I think three social networks is my maximum and I can't learn another one.

• 2:10:56Rich Roll?

  Fair enough. Cool. Well, uh, thanks so much.

• 2:10:59Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:10:59Rich Roll?

  Appreciate it. Peace. Lance.

• 2:11:05Rich Roll?

  All right. We did it. Hope you guys enjoyed that. One quick note, I forgot to mention at the outset of this show that we recorded this conversation quite a while back. I believe it was April 14th that we recorded it, a couple of months ago, which isn't a huge deal because these conversations are meant to be evergreen. Uh, and this is just because I've banked a whole bunch of episodes. It's taken me a little bit longer to kind of work through my catalog. In any event, uh, the race that we discussed during the conversation, that has already transpired. It went fine. It went great. Uh, it was good for her cause. It was good for the planet. Uh, and I'm looking forward to, uh, letting you guys know when she's going to race again. Uh, in any event, give her a shout on the social channels. Let her know what you thought of the conversation. Be sure to check out her website.

• 2:11:49Rich Roll?

  It's Leilani dot green, L E I L A N I dot green. She's going to be, or she's in the midst of launching this new apparel line as we speak, t-shirts, et cetera. So keep an eye out for that. And like I said, I'll keep you posted on her next race. Deal. Deal. If you guys want to keep up with my training in preparation for the upcoming Otillo, I keep saying Otillo, Odelur, I think it's Odelur in the Swedish accent, swim run world championships, I'm posting daily on Instagram, specifically Instagram stories and uploading all my workouts to Strava. So if you're intrigued by kind of what I'm doing on a daily basis, check out those accounts. Have you guys checked

• 2:12:31Rich Roll?

  out our meal planner yet? We got thousands of plant-based recipes just waiting for you to access unlimited meal plans, grocery lists, everything's totally personalized and customized based on your goals and your food preferences and your allergies and your time constraints. We've got 24/7 customer support from a team of experts. We have grocery delivery in 22 metropolitan areas via Instacart. And I can't say enough good things about this. I mean, I'm so proud of this product that we have put out to the world. It's super affordable, just $1.90 a week. And here's the thing, most people that embark on a plant-based lifestyle, they have the best of intentions. Perhaps they think this is going to be the new thing forever. But I think it's something like eight out of 10 people that try to do

• 2:13:15Rich Roll?

  this end up lapsing. And the reason for that is that we're busy and we lose focus or we don't have the tools at our fingertips to stay on track. And that's really the inspiration, the motivation and the intention behind this meal planner product that we have launched. It's really robust. It basically provides you with everything that you need to embrace a more plant-centric lifestyle and nutrition program for yourself, for your kids, for your family. I can't say enough good things about it. So if you haven't checked it out, go to meals.richroll.com or click on Meal Planner on my website on richroll.com. Easy to find, explore it and have a look. Plant Power Ireland is coming up very soon. We

• 2:14:00Rich Roll?

  do have a couple of spots left. It's going to be July 24 through 31 at Ballet Valan, which is this beautiful manor on 90 acres in the Irish countryside in County Cork. We're going to be visited by the Happy Pair Lads. Remember those guys from the podcast? They're going to come down for a day. It's basically A seven day experience intended to transform your life with Julie and I. We're going to cook, we're going to eat, we're going to run, we're going to meditate, we're going to do tea ceremony. We're going to have these really intensive workshops. We're going to have Ayurvedic treatments. It's going to be fun, too, intense and fun.

• 2:14:36Rich Roll?

  And basically, the idea behind this experience is to leave you a different person from the person that enters this experience. That in essence, at the end of this seven day experience, you will be fortified with the tools and the resources and the inspiration and the education that you need to truly and very substantially transform your life over the long haul. If you want more information on this, if this sounds like something that you would be into, again, we only have a few spots left, but they're up and available with a bunch more information at ourplantpowerworld.com. So check that out. If you want to receive a free, short, weekly email from me, I send one out every Thursday. It's called Roll Call.

• 2:15:21Rich Roll?

  Basically, five or six articles I came across, a documentary I watched, a video I watched, a podcast I listened to, a new product that I'm enjoying. Just cool stuff, no affiliate links. I'm not trying to make any money off this. It's not a spammy thing whatsoever. People seem to be enjoying it. So if that sounds cool to you and you haven't subscribed yet, do that. Just enter your email address on my website in any of those windows that you see popping up, or go to richroll.com/subscribe. Also on my site, we have signed copies of Finding Ultra, of Plant Power Way, of This Cheese Is Nuts. We got cool Plant Power t-shirts, we got tech tees, we got all kinds of cool swag and merch. I want to thank everybody who helped put on the show today. Jason Camiolo for audio engineering and production.

• 2:16:04Rich Roll?

  You heard him on the last episode, episode 300. He's doing a good job. Thank you so much, Jason, for all your hard work. Shawn Patterson, he is the artistic wizard behind all the graphics that we create, all the graphic assets that I share on social media throughout the week related to the episode. That's Shawn Patterson. He's doing a great job. Thank you, Shawn. And theme music, as always, by Analemma. And for those of you that are new, Analemma is my sons and my nephews band. They're the guys that wrote the theme music for this show. It's been the theme music since day one, or maybe episode two of the podcast. It was always intended to be temp music until we got to like doing something more professional, but it just stuck and that's the theme and I love it. I hope you guys enjoy it too.

• 2:16:49Rich Roll?

  In any event, thank you for the love, you guys. Again, so grateful to have your attention and to have you along for the ride on this amazing journey. It's been over 300 episodes. I just can't even believe it. This experience has enriched my life in innumerable ways and I'm so honored that it is resonating with you guys out there. So really appreciate it. See you guys soon. Peace. Plants.