376 Become a Love Warrior In and Out of Marriage with Glennon Doyle Melton

"We can either be shiny and admired or we can be real and loved." - Glennon Doyle Melton If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/376 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 376 with New York Times bestselling author Glennon Doyle Melton.

• 0:09Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:35Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everyone to another edition with the lovely Glennon Doyle Melton, who is in the house in the Greatness Studio. Super excited about this eye-opening, heart-opening, expansive interview. For those that don't know who Glennon is, she is the author of the New York Times bestselling memoir, Carry On Warrior, and the brand new memoir, Love Warrior. Now Glennon is also the founder of Mamastery, which is an online community reaching millions of people each week. She's the creator and president of Together Rising, which is a nonprofit organization that has raised over $4 million for families around the world through its Love Flash mobs, which have revolutionized online giving.

• 1:18Lewis Howes?

  Glennon is also a sought-after public speaker, and her work has been featured on The Today Show, The Talk, OWN, and NPR, and in The New York Times Newsweek, and in other television and print outlets. And in today's interview, we talk about what envy reveals to us about ourselves, also why love does not cure addiction, how men and women interpret and give love differently, and what to do about that, how to deal with a vulnerability hangover, and why the way our society teaches us about males and females makes it nearly impossible to love each other. That's right, this was a fun one, an eye-opening and a heart-opening experience.

• 2:03Lewis Howes?

  I hope you get a lot out of this one. Make sure to check out the full show notes, lewishowes.com/376, and share this with your friends. Check out the full video interview on YouTube. Make sure to watch and subscribe all of our interviews over on YouTube as well. And without further ado, let me introduce to you the one, the only Glennon Doyle Melton.

• 2:28Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everyone back to the School of Greatness Podcast. We're very excited about our guest. We have Glennon Doyle Melton in the house. Good to see you.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  Oh, so glad to be here.

• 2:36Lewis Howes?

  Thank you for being here. I'm very excited. You've got a new book coming out, which I'm excited to talk about and dive in about.

• 2:43Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:43Lewis Howes?

  And you haven't written a book in a while, right?

• 2:45Speaker 02

  Right. Years.

• 2:46Lewis Howes?

  When was the last time?

• 2:47Speaker 02

  Um, four years ago, 2012, I think. Yeah.

• 2:52Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 2:53Speaker 02

  And that wasn't even, I mean, that was a collection of essays.

• 2:55Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 2:56Speaker 02

  So I learned that it's much harder to actually write a book.

• 3:00Lewis Howes?

  A full book, yeah.

• 3:01Speaker 02

  When I was writing the second book, I realized I had never written a book before.

• 3:04Lewis Howes?

  Oh, really? Okay.

• 3:05Speaker 02

  This is brutally hard for me.

• 3:07Lewis Howes?

  But the first book was a New York Times bestseller, was a huge hit.

• 3:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:09Lewis Howes?

  A big success.

• 3:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:11Lewis Howes?

  And why do you think people resonated? What was the title of the first book?

• 3:13Speaker 02

  Carry On Warrior.

• 3:15Lewis Howes?

  And why do you think it was such a big hit? And why do you think people resonated with that topic?

• 3:19Speaker 02

  I think I was just trying to, I was talking about things that, well, mostly women don't talk about.

• 3:24Lewis Howes?

  Like what?

• 3:25Speaker 02

  You know, like pain and drinking too much and addiction and how freaking hard marriage is, and especially when you were raised in a culture that tells you that marriage is like the finish line, you know?

• 3:38Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 3:38Speaker 02

  That you just get married and then everything's happily ever after. So...

• 3:43Lewis Howes?

  But it hasn't been happily ever after.

• 3:44Speaker 02

  It's not freaking happily ever after for anyone. You know, it's, it's, it's a starting line. It's not a finish line. It's a starting line. And love is hard. And it's not pink and unicorns, you know?

• 3:54Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 3:55Speaker 02

  It's like, oh man. I mean, maybe it's for everyone else. It's not for me.

• 3:59Lewis Howes?

  Do you don't poop Skittles?

• 4:00Speaker 02

  No. God, no. No one in my family does.

• 4:03Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 4:03Speaker 02

  They're hard to live with. They're amazing and wonderful. It's the best, best part of life, but it's also the hardest relationships.

• 4:10Lewis Howes?

  Okay. What is, what do you think's been the most painful experience in your marriage?

• 4:14Speaker 02

  Hmm, I know what's been the most. So, so Love Warrior is the book that's coming out next.

• 4:20Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  And that book is a book that I actually wrote in the, in my closet.

• 4:26Lewis Howes?

  Your closet?

• 4:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. In my closet every morning.

• 4:29Lewis Howes?

  Literal, literal closet.

• 4:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. I call it my clothess. I actually have a dark closet. It's great for someone who's like prone to depression to have it to, to spend all day in like a 10 foot. Yeah. Um, but, so after 10 years of marriage, Craig and I were in therapy.

• 4:49Speaker 02

  One day, just working on some communication stuff and he told me that he'd been unfaithful in our

• 4:56Lewis Howes?

  In the marriage, in therapy, for the first time, revealing this.

• 4:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, and our therapist didn't even know. And I was absolutely clueless. Like, whenever people say to me, or said to me in the past, like, I didn't see it coming, or I didn't know, I would always think.

• 5:13Lewis Howes?

  Come on. Yeah, but you really didn't see it coming.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  Had no idea, no idea. And, um, oh, my God, it was just, I remember that day like it was yesterday, just listening to that news. And, um, and so after that time, Craig moved out and our life just crumbled.

• 5:34Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 5:35Speaker 02

  And during that time.

• 5:36Lewis Howes?

  Separated or just, not divorced?

• 5:39Speaker 02

  Not divorced. I mean, I planned to divorce.

• 5:41Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 5:41Speaker 02

  But we were separated. And I was just doing what women do. I was just like, holding my breath and trying to smile and trying to keep my kids okay. We had three little ones who, who had, this was completely out of the blue for them too. Because they had, I mean, they had Craig's amazing dad and they had a happy life. And, um, so it was terrible. And so anyway, I just would write in the morning. It was the only time that I had to, you know, I write to just kind of, I write like a detective looks for clues. Like, I'm clueless all day. And then I kind of, if I can, I have no freaking idea what's going on. And then I, if I have an hour where I can type out words and I can kind of see the patterns in my life and get clues on what to do next. Um, but I never, so I wrote every day and it was just how I stayed sane during that time.

• 6:24Speaker 02

  You know, because you kind of have to pretend like everything's okay, especially when you have kids.

• 6:28Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 6:28Speaker 02

  You have to act like, you know.

• 6:29Lewis Howes?

  You can't be in breakdown constantly. They're gonna be like, what's wrong? They're gonna be.

• 6:33Speaker 02

  No, the mom's job is just to like, smile as the Titanic is like. You know, just like, everybody just keep dancing.

• 6:40Lewis Howes?

  Keep playing the music.

• 6:41Speaker 02

  It's fun. We're fine. Yeah. Um, so that was my honest time.

• 6:47Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 6:48Speaker 02

  And I never thought that I would.

• 6:50Lewis Howes?

  How long had you moved out for?

• 6:51Speaker 02

  So we were separated for, I guess, six months. Um, and then the thing is, I, so I had been to rock, this is like, I think, I think about this as like the rock bottom of my marriage, right? But the good news is that I'd been to rock bottom before. Okay. Cause when, I've been an addict since I was 10. I became bulimic when I was 10. It's happy unicorn life.

• 7:16Speaker 02

  I'm still laughing, so it's okay. But yeah, so I became blemish when I was 10 and then I never really got that worked out. So it just morphed into other addictions as addiction does, you know?

• 7:24Lewis Howes?

  Sex or whatever.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  Right. And all of it, all of them. I'm just recovering everything. So, um, so when I, on Mother's Day 13 years ago, I found, I was just found myself on a floor just shaking from a hangover and terror and staring at a positive pregnancy test. And so that is like the first moment that I thought, I want to be a mom. Like, I think it's the first time I ever wanted to be some, anything more than I wanted to be numb. And I, I, I just learned early on that life was scary and hard and I was going to hide in addiction. I think addiction is really a hiding place for sensitive people, you know? It's just a place where you can go and

• 8:00Lewis Howes?

  Feel safe and comfortable and

• 8:02Speaker 02

  And love and pain can't touch you.

• 8:03Lewis Howes?

  Control, I guess, right?

• 8:04Speaker 02

  Right, you're in control of your own pain. But the thing is that love and pain are the only things that you grow from. So you're safe, but you don't grow, right?

• 8:13Speaker 02

  But I, because of that rock bottom moment, that rock bottom moment on the bathroom floor was the best moment of my entire life. Like, it felt like the end of the world because I knew I was going to have to, in order to become a mother, I knew I was going to have to give up my whole life. Cause my whole life was alcohol and partying. So it felt like the end, but it was actually the beginning. And everything beautiful in my life has come from that bathroom floor moment. So I knew enough during that rock bottom, my marriage, to know that rock bottom can be the most powerful place on earth if you can stay with the pain.

• 8:47Lewis Howes?

  So you're aware of it in the moment.

• 8:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, totally. I mean, I always have two of me. There's the part of me that's like freaking out, that's in deep pain. And, and then there's the writer part of me that's like, huh, this is interesting. This is like some good material here.

• 9:01Lewis Howes?

  Let me journal this right now.

• 9:02Speaker 02

  Sit down with this and like go deeper, you know?

• 9:07Speaker 02

  So yeah, I mean, I knew that I had to like dive into it and figure out what it all meant. And that's when I, I ended up in therapy, Craig ended up in therapy and he just completely He just didn't have a prideful bone in his body. He just did all the work while I was doing my work. And we ended up eventually coming back together, but as completely different people in a completely different marriage.

• 9:27Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 9:27Speaker 02

  Which is interesting, right?

• 9:28Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 9:28Speaker 02

  You can have a new marriage and with the same person.

• 9:31Lewis Howes?

  So it was a six month separation and he came back. You decided that it was worth coming back. He, he obviously probably didn't want to leave, I'm assuming.

• 9:38Speaker 02

  Well, after six, no, oh God, no, he didn't want to leave. No.

• 9:41Lewis Howes?

  He was, he was sharing in a very

• 9:42Speaker 02

  He was willing to do anything. Yeah.

• 9:43Lewis Howes?

  In a fearful way. It wasn't like, I'm saying this and whatever happens, happens.

• 9:47Speaker 02

  No, no. Oh my God. Yeah. I mean, this could never, ever work for anyone unless both people are a hundred and fifty million percent dedicated to doing whatever it takes. You know, and that's why so many of my friends have loved their marriages um, and put as much hope and love as I did. And then it doesn't work because the other person isn't, you can't control how much the other person wants it, you know, there has to be nothing that matters except for um, beginning again.

• 10:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. So when did you realize that you really didn't want it and you didn't want to get a divorce?

• 10:23Speaker 02

  Um, well, after six months, we moved back in together, but we were in different rooms. After six months was when I was like, I will consider trying. That wasn't when I was like, I love you. That was when

• 10:37Lewis Howes?

  I'm open to the potential possibility.

• 10:39Speaker 02

  Right, of not murdering you.

• 10:42Speaker 02

  And I'm not making any promises about that. So we moved back in, but we were like in two different rooms still and that's when we started therapy together.

• 10:50Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 10:51Speaker 02

  But that was just the begin, I mean, we're still now like working, working, working. It's been years.

• 10:58Lewis Howes?

  Letting go of hurt, pain.

• 11:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:00Lewis Howes?

  Fears.

• 11:01Speaker 02

  Cause it's not like, I mean,

• 11:03Lewis Howes?

  This was years ago.

• 11:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, four years ago.

• 11:05Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 11:05Speaker 02

  And it still can feel fresh. I mean,

• 11:07Lewis Howes?

  Can imagine.

• 11:08Speaker 02

  And I've talked to so many women about that, that it, it feels frustrating because you feel like you make progress. And things are getting normal again. And then one day you wake up and it's like all the pains there again.

• 11:17Lewis Howes?

  What happens? Some type of trigger or some type of?

• 11:19Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, whatever it is. I mean, for me, it's because I'm always because I'm writing books about it. Poor Craig, right? Did you forget you married a writer?

• 11:28Lewis Howes?

  And you're the main subject, you're the main character of everything in my book.

• 11:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:32Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 11:33Speaker 02

  But I think this is progress through something like this, through something traumatic is more, it's not linear. It's not like we go from like healthy or unhealthy to healthy or failure to success. I think it's all circular. You know, you just come back around to the same pain and the same loneliness. But each time you come around, you're stronger from the climb, you know, I can feel it like I can feel myself. I mean, in the beginning, when my imagination would go crazy and it would just lay me out. I mean, I wouldn't even be able to get out of bed. And now it comes around. It's just like, oh, there it is again. And we're going around and around and getting stronger each time. So it's a journey, but um. But yeah, that was definitely the most painful moment.

• 12:13Lewis Howes?

  Do you believe pain is a choice we all have, or is it something necessary for all of us to experience in order to grow?

• 12:20Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, I'm. Well, first of all, I'm so excited about pain. I can't believe you just asked me that question.

• 12:28Speaker 02

  So I'm somebody who avoided pain completely the first 25 years of my life, right? Because I just thought I couldn't take it. So whatever it took to hide from the pain, right? Food, booze, whatever. Recently, I figured out, oh, my God, I think that everything that I need to become who I'm the woman I'm meant to be is actually inside of that pain. So I was sitting in this hot yoga class, right when everything went crazy and miserable and just so. And I I ended up just sitting still for 90 minutes because I couldn't move. I wasn't too depressed. And I had this crazy experience where every single fear and pain that I'd ever have were just like popping up in front of me.

• 13:11Speaker 02

  And I had nothing to. I'm so used to like doing whatever it takes to avoid the pain, you know? It was like a game of whack a mole where there's no, there's no mallet and all your, all the moles are like your deepest fears and pain.

• 13:25Speaker 02

  And I was crying through the whole yoga class. And at the end of the yoga class, the yoga instructor comes around. And it was like she knew what was happening. She goes, That was the journey of the warrior.

• 13:37Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  And I was like, what the hell? Yoga is so weird. So, so I get in my van and I'm driving home and I have this deja vu experience. So I get to my house and I open up this book that I've been reading. And it was by Pemis Shadron, this Buddhist monk. And, and the paragraph said, if you can sit with the hot loneliness today for 1.6 seconds, when yesterday you could only sit with it for one, then that's the journey of the warrior.

• 14:05Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 14:06Speaker 02

  And I realized, oh my God, this is what I've been doing since I was 10 years old. Like when I was 10 years old, I started having these feelings of fear, pain, like uncomfortable feelings, like fear and envy and loneliness and otherness. And, and since we only talk about shiny, happy feelings, I thought there was something wrong with me. You know, I thought that these feelings were something to be ashamed of, something to numb. So the amazing thing is that right when you start feeling your hot loneliness, the world starts showing you all these easy buttons, right? So like mine was food. The second the hot loneliness would start bubbling inside, I'd numb it with food. And then it was booze, then it was drugs. Some people's is, you know, other people's bodies, sex, shopping, unkindness.

• 14:47Speaker 02

  Like all of these things are easy buttons that we use to transport ourselves out of our pain.

• 14:52Lewis Howes?

  To not feel.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  To not feel, but the problem with transporting is that you miss all your transformation. Because all the lessons that we need to, to know to, to become the people we're meant to be are inside the pain. And I was like, oh my God, this is, I am like a butterfly, like a caterpillar jumping out of the cocoon right before I would become a butterfly. Because we think of pain as like a hot potato. You know, like the second we feel it, we need to get rid of it, like unkindness. Every time someone's unkindness kind to you, it's just that they just felt the hot loneliness, but they thought it was a hot potato. So instead of feeling it, they pass it on to you, right? But pain is not a, it's, pain is not a hot potato. It's like, I think of it now as like a traveling professor. Like it comes and it knocks on everyone's door. And the wisest people I know just say, come in and don't leave.

• 15:37Speaker 02

  So that's why I have this beast, I have be still tattooed on my wrist. Cause I think that. Being able to be still inside of pain and just letting it come and know whatever it is, fear, anger, loneliness, envy, just letting it come and knowing that it will, that it's a teacher. And it'll leave you with what is the opposite of addiction. It's the opposite of compulsion, you know? So, God, I think, I think pain is not only, no, I don't think it's a choice. I mean, suffering is a choice. Suffering is what happens when we try to avoid pain.

• 16:07Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 16:08Speaker 02

  Like, suffering is what happens when we numb, when we, um, God, we all know addicts who, I mean, I ruined my family for 20 years. That's suffering because I chose not to feel my own pain. Because it doesn't just disappear, it goes somewhere. So if I don't deal with my own pain, then it goes on to my family.

• 16:25Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 16:26Speaker 02

  That's suffering. So that's optional. But pain is just, I mean, I think we could learn so much from it. Like envy. So that's like a hot potato painful emotion. That people just get rid of all the time. So for me, envy looks like, so I read an awesome article that someone's written, like a woman has written, and I read it and I'm like, oh, my God, this is so freaking awesome. And it just gets better and better.

• 16:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 16:53Speaker 02

  And by the end of it, I'm like, I never liked her. I just don't like her. Like, she might be a good writer, but, and that's a lovely way to live, you know, with envy. But when I think about envy closer. So when I was drinking all the time, if someone handed me a book written by a woman and they said they loved it, I wouldn't read it.

• 17:13Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 17:13Speaker 02

  Because I was like looking straight at the sun. It was like, there was like a part of me that knew that a braver, better version of me could do that. Like, I was meant to do that and I wasn't doing it. And there's nothing more painful than seeing someone doing something that you feel like you were meant to do, right? So maybe, maybe we're only envious of people who are doing what we're made to be.

• 17:36Lewis Howes?

  And also that you're not taking any steps towards doing it yourself.

• 17:40Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 17:40Lewis Howes?

  It's even worse.

• 17:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, but but it but if we use it as an arrow instead of a hot potato, but like this is the every time you feel envious of someone, look, don't let it go, like, look closer, because maybe it's an arrow pointing you towards what you're meant to create.

• 17:52Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, that's interesting.

• 17:53Speaker 02

  So I don't know, I'm just so, I feel like for someone who wasted her pain for so long, I'm just curious about it now. Like, what is this here to teach me? What is this?

• 18:02Lewis Howes?

  That's cool that you're doing that now. I mean, as an athlete, I experience pain all the time, you know, just emotional pain, physical pain through my sport, through the transformation of practice, you know, constantly getting broken down by the coach or by whatever the game, the situation, the opponent, being broken down mentally, physically, emotionally, and being in it. You can't just, like, leave the game or leave the practice, you know, sticking it out to the end and seeing what's possible on the other side has always been powerful for me as an athlete. And it's something I talk about in my book is experiencing pain every day as a way to train yourself, to be prepared for the bigger, scarier moments of life and not shy away from them, but to be ready and show up and face the journey like a warrior.

• 18:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:45Lewis Howes?

  So, you know, a simple way to experience pain every day in my mind is just to work out. You know, every time I run three miles, I'm exhausted, I want to quit, you know, but it's like, let's just get through this. Let's let's experience it, let's feel it and notice where the pain is coming from, my lungs, my legs, my breath, my mind. And it just continues to build my pain threshold up for something bigger or scarier that I can handle.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  And you learn that from athletics. That's so interesting, because that is, athletes are people who stay with the pain. But most of us don't do, I mean, we don't learn that, like, where else do you learn that, other than?

• 19:20Lewis Howes?

  That's why I think sports is huge for kids.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  I mean, I was just my, I just started running.

• 19:25Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, good for you.

• 19:26Speaker 02

  Which, there's nothing that I hate more than running.

• 19:29Lewis Howes?

  It's miserable.

• 19:29Speaker 02

  It's the worst thing on earth. I don't even like people who run. But my kid.

• 19:34Lewis Howes?

  You're envious of them.

• 19:36Speaker 02

  I don't even know. I'm just like, what are you doing? Like, you're gonna end up in the same spot. Just sit down. But, um, but my kid is a, is a cross-country runner. And so my friend asked me to start running and I was running with Chase and I got this horrible cramp in my side. And he said, listen, mom, the thing is, you think it's gonna get worse and that's why you're scared. But it's not. Just keep running. Just keep running. It's not gonna get worse. Just keep running. And I thought, how much of it is fear? It's not the actual pain. It's like this fear that somehow it's gonna destroy me. Like this little cramp is gonna take me down. And he was saying to me, no, no, just feel it. Take the fear away from it. Just feel it. It's there and keep going.

• 20:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 20:18Speaker 02

  That's pretty bad.

• 20:19Lewis Howes?

  It's interesting you said that. I was watching a briefly, a Will Smith movie earlier. I can't remember which one it is, but his son is in it. And at one point, he's telling his son, you know, fear is not real. It's a choice. Danger is very real, but fear is a choice that we have every single day. It's an illusion. So it's interesting.

• 20:35Speaker 02

  That's interesting. Yeah, it's like, it's like that whole, the only thing we have to fear is fear.

• 20:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 20:41Speaker 02

  Right? And it's like, for me, the one I think about pain, I, I wanna be, I don't wanna be afraid of pain anymore. I just wanna be afraid of the easy buttons.

• 20:48Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 20:49Speaker 02

  You know, I don't wanna be afraid.

• 20:50Lewis Howes?

  Cause that's who you were for 20 years.

• 20:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:52Lewis Howes?

  30 years.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was so afraid of pain when I really should have been afraid of the overeating and the drinking and the, I was, I should have been afraid of all the things that were trying to, that I thought were gonna kill the pain. So now I'm just scared of all of those things.

• 21:04Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, that's interesting. Now, who was the most influential person in your life growing up?

• 21:10Speaker 02

  I mean, I have an amazing family, both of my parents and my sister. I mean, my sister who's here now, who's with me everywhere I go. My sister and I have been inseparable since she was born. When I started drinking so much, that was the biggest loss in my life. Is that you can't have, you can't have a close relationship when your best friend is alcohol, you know? So, um, so we were just broken for 25 years, really. I mean, just broken from, from that addiction. And the second I was ready, I mean, from that bathroom floor, from the bathroom floor, the call I made was to my sister. And, um, she came and literally picked me up off the floor and put me in a car and took me to my first meeting.

• 21:55Speaker 02

  And since then, we haven't, there has not been one day when we haven't talked, including, I mean, when, when, um, when I started writing was because she brought me a laptop and was like, this is what you're meant to do.

• 22:09Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 22:09Speaker 02

  I want you to sit down every day. She was leaving. She went to, she moved to Rwanda. She joined the International Justice Mission and was prosecuting child rapists in Rwanda. She said, I'm gonna go do my thing. You're gonna stay and do your thing. And you're gonna get up every day and write, and I'm gonna go do this thing that I need to do. And by the time she came back, Mama's Terry was off and running.

• 22:31Lewis Howes?

  Blown up?

• 22:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:32Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing.

• 22:33Speaker 02

  And that's how

• 22:33Lewis Howes?

  Mama's Terry is your blog?

• 22:34Speaker 02

  Yes, Mama's Terry is my blog.

• 22:35Lewis Howes?

  Where you write about this journey, these experiences?

• 22:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:37Lewis Howes?

  And specifically, mostly for women, right?

• 22:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, but a lot of guys are, I mean, it's interesting. I mean, basically, all we do is tell the truth. You know, we talk about all of it. It started off talking a lot about motherhood because at the time that I was started, I started, I was just like dripping with children. I just had them, I had three children. I was home with them all day because that's a great choice for someone with high anxiety.

• 23:00Speaker 02

  Disaster.

• 23:03Speaker 02

  But now that the kids are growing and my world is getting bigger, we're just talking, we talk about everything. We talk about faith and love and hope and healing and addiction and all of it.

• 23:12Lewis Howes?

  What was the biggest lesson your sister taught you?

• 23:14Speaker 02

  Show up. My sister's the best show-er-upper I've ever met, you know?

• 23:19Lewis Howes?

  What does that mean to you to show up?

• 23:21Speaker 02

  Well, I don't know. I think, um, some people, and I do this, we all, um, we think that when we, in order to, to be effective, in order to be a friend, in order to be a mother or a, or a husband, or a, we have to like say the right thing, or do the right thing, or be the right thing. And so that keeps us from just showing up for each other. You know, and I think that we, we freak ourselves out, that, that fear thing. My sister is the one who just, she's there no matter what. She doesn't worry about saying the right thing. She doesn't, she's just, you know that when you pick up a phone, she's gonna be there 10 minutes later. Or she's gonna, you know, she was on a, the day after, I called her from the parking lot after that therapy session, and she was on a plane the next morning to my house, you know, just like the showing up.

• 24:05Speaker 02

  Because we never remember what people said. Like, it's not That's not the point. The point is, well, I'm in this place in my life and I know that you're gonna be there. Like, just your body, you know, just your being is gonna be there. She's taught me so much.

• 24:19Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think she showed up for you after, essentially, it sounds like you were neglecting her friendship or relationship for so many years? Why do you think she was like, "I'll be there for you," even though you, I'm assuming, weren't there for her?

• 24:31Speaker 02

  No, I wasn't. No, I wasn't.

• 24:33Lewis Howes?

  So why do you think she was so willing?

• 24:35Speaker 02

  Somebody asked her that at a speaking event. We do our speaking events together now, so it's like she and I just talking back and forth on a stage.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  And somebody said, "How could you just be so, you know, because, because addiction can cause so much damage in relationships? So how, how are you able to love her so well after all of that?" And what I thought was interesting is that she's a very, very healthy person, like, she's a very healthy person, so.

• 25:00Lewis Howes?

  She seems very healthy.

• 25:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, and so she has really good boundaries. I don't even know what boundaries are. Like, I...

• 25:07Speaker 02

  She, um, she, and she kept really good boundaries, even for loving me so much. She understood that this is a monster between us, like, this addiction is a monster. And the thing about a monster is that it hurts everybody in the area, right? So what she said from stage was that she thinks she kept healthy enough, um, boundaries that our relationship was around. Because what happens with a lot of people who love addicts is they stay close and they get torn to shreds.

• 25:32Lewis Howes?

  So she essentially didn't talk to you that much?

• 25:34Speaker 02

  No.

• 25:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 25:35Speaker 02

  I mean, she loved you.

• 25:36Lewis Howes?

  Surface level, and it was from afar, and it was...

• 25:38Speaker 02

  Right, and she was checking it, but it wasn't, she wasn't enmeshed with me.

• 25:41Lewis Howes?

  It wasn't allowing her to control her life, consume her, or let you take advantage of her?

• 25:45Speaker 02

  No.

• 25:46Lewis Howes?

  Make her feel wrong or bad or something?

• 25:47Speaker 02

  Or take over her life.

• 25:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, which I was a lot of people.

• 25:50Speaker 02

  So many people who love addicts is that their life stops. Like, my life stopped when I was 10. My sister's life could have stopped too. If she would have just stayed right there with me, when I sat down in the sand and said, "I'm not going any further," she could have stayed there and just let her entire life revolve around me. And that would have helped neither of us. We probably wouldn't even be friends now. Because she would be resentful. But because she went on with her life, the second I called her and said, I'm ready. She was able to be there and ever since, you know.

• 26:15Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 26:16Speaker 02

  So I think it has a lot to do with healthy boundaries.

• 26:17Lewis Howes?

  That's smart. It's great to know. Boundaries. It's tough to like not be there for your sibling or your daughter or your son or your parents. If they're going through that. You know, when has it become too much? When has it become you're actually not being there for them or you're not making a stand for them? And blurring the line between it's controlling and manipulating.

• 26:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:36Lewis Howes?

  How do you someone navigate that? Like, I'm gonna be there for my family member, my partner, whatever. How many years do you go through of them, you know? Taking advantage of the situation or your love and kindness before it's too much? Is that a gut feeling? Is that a?

• 26:52Speaker 02

  I think it is.

• 26:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 26:53Speaker 02

  I mean, I think what the only thing that I can say to that is when you know it, know it.

• 26:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 26:58Speaker 02

  I mean, most people know it and then they go five more years.

• 27:01Lewis Howes?

  Be aware of it. Yeah.

• 27:02Speaker 02

  Know it like when, when you, when in the depths of your heart, you know, I'm actually not showing up for her anymore. I'm showing up for her addiction.

• 27:08Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 27:10Speaker 02

  Cause that's what we do. I mean, we co, we become codependent and like, so I don't know how many parents, I mean, I, I, I talk to mental health. Professionals all the time. That's one of the groups that I talk to the most. And so many, I mean, so you know, I'm, I'm showing up for her. I'm, I'm cleaning, I'm doing her laundry when she passes out. I'm doing the, I'm, that's not, you're, you're, you're showing up for her disease. You're allowing the disease to, it's not love, right? I mean, love is not. Love is not that easy and it's not that hard, right? Love is not like, I will continue. I think my parents loved me well because they were like, we cannot. See you do this anymore. And I know that they cried themselves to sleep at night, but there was a. Um, nobody was helping me with my alcoholism.

• 27:52Speaker 02

  You know, I was, that, maybe that's why I was, that, that's why I was able to hit rock bottom.

• 27:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  Earlier than I may have.

• 27:57Lewis Howes?

  Nobody was there for you.

• 27:59Speaker 02

  I mean, nobody was gonna be there for me until I was gonna be there for myself.

• 28:02Lewis Howes?

  You showed up, yeah.

• 28:03Speaker 02

  The person who needed to show up first was me.

• 28:05Lewis Howes?

  Now, how does? I get that and I understand it, but one. Let's just say you kind of, um, clear ties with the person who's got the addiction and you're not there for them as much and they keep reaching out to you and then all of a sudden they commit suicide.

• 28:20Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 28:21Lewis Howes?

  How do you know like?

• 28:23Speaker 02

  How do you know?

• 28:24Lewis Howes?

  How do you navigate this?

• 28:25Speaker 02

  Not have guilt?

• 28:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, or just be like, oh, I could have been there for them. Or, I don't know, how does someone, because I'm assuming that's happened many times.

• 28:32Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:33Lewis Howes?

  Where people said, okay, I'm not gonna be there for you because you have this addiction.

• 28:36Speaker 02

  Right.

• 28:36Lewis Howes?

  So, figure it out, and when you're ready, and when you want support, come to me, and then the life is over.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I mean, that's brutal. I mean, I don't think it gets much brutal than that. I mean, by the time somebody gets to suicide, that's a major, major mental health issue. Right? I mean, that's not, and you, the problem is, is that you're using the wrong currency to try to solve something. So, no mental illness, including addiction, including depression, including anxiety, has ever been cured by love. Okay, that's like trying to like, no, love does not cure mental addiction. Love does not cure cancer. Love does not cure diabetes. Right? And love does not cure mental illness. Like, that's the thing, but we don't, but if, but if someone with cancer dies, we don't say, I didn't love them enough. Right? But mental illness is a, I mean, I'm mentally ill. I have a depression, I have

• 29:25Speaker 02

  anxiety, I have major prone, I'm majorly prone to addiction. It's, it's, I have serotonin issues in my brain that I need medication for. I mean, whenever someone says, what are you depressed about? I say, what are you diabetic about? It's like, it's an actual medical condition, right? So, and by the time somebody gets to suicide, man, I mean, that's far down the mental illness. That's like a nine, or a 10, or an 11 off the scale, right? So, I mean, at some point, we have to, if we could shift the thinking from, um, mental illness is some kind of personality, lack of love, it's not. It can't be cured by love. Like, no matter how much somebody loves me, they're never gonna cure me of my depression. Right? Unless they have shots of serotonin that they can stick into my brain, you know?

• 30:09Speaker 02

  So, um, I, I, I think that once we change the conversation to be accurate about mental health, that kind of guilt and shame will go away, because people will understand that you do not love somebody out of addiction.

• 30:21Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. So, I'm curious, how did you guys reconnect then? What happened after you guys moved back in? What was the next steps? Therapy together?

• 30:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:29Lewis Howes?

  And then when did you realize, okay, I'm gonna give this a chance? Again?

• 30:33Speaker 02

  Well, we started therapy, all right, so at first I started therapy separately, and he was in therapy separately. Because I knew we have to like dive in.

• 30:43Speaker 02

  So, so what I figured out is that, that I was having major issues with intimacy. Cause that's what happens in therapy. You think you're going in to fix someone else and then you get screwed with all the stuff you still have to work on, right? So I, since I became believing when I was 10, I just bought into all the weird messages that the world gives girls about their bodies, right? And so what happens to a lot of women, young, is that, you know, so if we're body, mind and spirit, we're trinities, body, mind and spirit. Girls, we get so many confusing messages about our bodies that basically at some point we just disassociate, we like vote our body off the island. Okay. We stop, um, understanding at a very deep level that we, that our bodies are a part of our us.

• 31:26Speaker 02

  Which makes sense because women's bodies are commodities, right? We're taught early on that your body is to sell, your body is to whatever. Yeah, yeah. This is not a, this is not your spiritual home. This is like a Victoria's Secret, but whatever. So, um, so what my therapist said is we need to like have a reunion. We need to like pull you back together. We need to make you whole again, you know, like vote your body back on the island. So basically I was like, that sounds really hard. Do you have any more pills?

• 31:52Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 31:53Speaker 02

  She was like, no.

• 31:54Lewis Howes?

  Can you just hit the easy button? Yeah.

• 31:58Speaker 02

  She was like, no, we're gonna do the work. Do the work. So, um, so that's why I was having, I was just having lots and lots of issues with sex. Like I couldn't figure out how to use my body to love and be loved.

• 32:11Lewis Howes?

  To be intimate.

• 32:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like, I mean, I would be there, but I wouldn't be there. Like I would be like hanging out above the sex happening and I would.

• 32:17Lewis Howes?

  Emotionally, you were somewhere else. Yeah.

• 32:19Speaker 02

  I was like, I'm just gonna make the grocery list.

• 32:21Lewis Howes?

  It's interesting because most women are usually, it seems like they're more emotionally connected than the men, right? Especially when sex, they don't want to be, I don't know. I get an idea that most women are more present.

• 32:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, but that, but when we think of emotionally, that's because you guys love with your bodies.

• 32:36Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 32:37Speaker 02

  So, okay, this is perfect, right? Because so when I'm having a conversation, I'm like there. I'm like, yes, we are, we are loving each other. Like we are, oh my God, this is love, you know?

• 32:48Lewis Howes?

  And our souls.

• 32:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. And this is it. Cause, cause I'm body and spirit, right? If we're having a meeting of the minds or a meeting of the soul, I'm like, this is love, right? Craig is a boy, alright, well he's a man now.

• 33:03Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 33:04Speaker 02

  But he was a boy once, okay?

• 33:06Lewis Howes?

  He's a male.

• 33:07Speaker 02

  So, body, mind and spirit, he was taught at a young age, the mind, the, the, the same world that was giving me all the confusing messages about my body was giving him very confusing messages about emotions.

• 33:19Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 33:19Speaker 02

  Right?

• 33:20Lewis Howes?

  That's what we were talking about before.

• 33:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 33:21Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 33:21Speaker 02

  He's a boy, he's not allowed to feel, he's not allowed to, so then he voted that off the island.

• 33:26Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 33:27Speaker 02

  So then here we are, two people, I'm trying to love him with my body, I'm sorry, with my mind and my spirit, he doesn't live there, he doesn't even feel it, he's like, he doesn't understand I'm trying to give love or, and he's trying to love with his body, because that's how, that's what's real to him, and I'm like, ugh, like, that's not real, doesn't feel real to me. So we are completely missing each other, right?

• 33:49Lewis Howes?

  No wonder it didn't work for 10 years for both you in some way.

• 33:53Speaker 02

  Totally, and I think that, and, and like, we had to start over, man, I mean, I had to like, we had to like, start holding hands.

• 34:00Lewis Howes?

  You didn't hold hands before?

• 34:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I wasn't there, like, I didn't understand what was going on, yeah, like, I wasn't, no, I was like, ugh. We had to, like, actually, we had to practice kissing.

• 34:10Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 34:10Speaker 02

  Yes, oh my god, Louis, it was so weird.

• 34:13Lewis Howes?

  So you could just be present in the moment?

• 34:14Speaker 02

  We had to practice eye contact, like, all of these things that were so threatening to me. Because threatening, then you go into fight or flight, fight, I'm gone. Right? So I am gone, with him, with any kind of conversation where I wanted to go deeper.

• 34:30Lewis Howes?

  He was gone.

• 34:31Speaker 02

  Gone, fight or flight, like, I feel threatened, I can't do this.

• 34:34Lewis Howes?

  He wouldn't even look in the eye, probably, he's just like, eh.

• 34:35Speaker 02

  I was taught young that this isn't, yeah, or he'd just start panicking and saying things that didn't make sense, like, so.

• 34:42Lewis Howes?

  It's a whole different language.

• 34:43Speaker 02

  It's a whole, because guys are like sports, weather, poor guys, I don't know you, how you guys make it, like, you have all the human feelings we have and they're stuck talking about this BS all the time, I mean, we need a revolution. But, um, so it was a practice, it was a practice of me starting to understand that my body actually is a part of me that can offer and receive love, and him understanding that his emotions are a part of him that can give and receive love.

• 35:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 35:09Speaker 02

  Right? So he had to practice loving me with his mind, and I had to practice loving him with my body. And so that very interesting thing happens with relationships where these terrible things happen, like our rock bottom, that come into our life to heal. I mean, I had a part of me that needed to heal, right, and he had a part of him that needed to heal, and they're like, completely separate, so the amazing thing I think about is. Regardless of whether my marriage, we made it and for now, but like if we hadn't, it still would have been a freaking miracle because I became whole because of it. And he became whole because of it. So if we would have gone our separate ways, it still would have been a major redemption story.

• 35:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 35:48Speaker 02

  You know, so I don't, I don't think of it as like, our story is wonderful because we stayed together at all. Like, I think our story is wonderful because we used something really crappy to become more whole.

• 36:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Interesting. So where are you guys at now? Everything working perfectly or the perfect marriage?

• 36:06Speaker 02

  Oh, yes. It's like Disney, Louis. It's like perfect.

• 36:10Lewis Howes?

  Mickey Mouse.

• 36:11Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. All we do is smile and run through the sunflowers.

• 36:17Speaker 02

  No, I mean, it's good. It's what marriage is. It's lots of moments that are so joyful that you just can't believe you get to spend your life with this person and other moments where you're like, oh, my God, I'm spending my life with this person. Like, that's, you know, I mean, love is just a relentless showing up. And it just creates this like alchemy in you where you figure, you know, it's a, it's a spiritual practice for me. Like every single thing that bugs me about Craig ends up being something that I need to heal in myself. So, um, no, it's not all perfect. And there's still all kinds of pain. And some days I wake up and I feel like I'm exactly back in that therapy room and it's all fresh and new.

• 36:56Speaker 02

  And that's when it's Craig's turn to be, to relentlessly show up.

• 37:00Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 37:00Speaker 02

  And to not allow pride to be a part of our marriage.

• 37:03Lewis Howes?

  That's tough for a man.

• 37:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is. I mean, can you imagine what he's been through? Like with this whole, like he has had to re, it reminds me of that scripture that's like, you have to lose your life to find it. I mean, he's had to lose everything that he thought he was. And just build himself up again. It's fascinating to watch.

• 37:22Lewis Howes?

  What do you think you cry about the most?

• 37:24Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  Well, that's for me, especially that's a hard question because I cry all the time. Like I'm, I just watched the last episode of Parenthood last night and I was like in convulsion. Like I was crying so hard.

• 37:36Lewis Howes?

  Let's say, uh, when you're alone by yourself in the middle of the night, maybe not alone, but.

• 37:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:42Lewis Howes?

  When you're alone to your thoughts, what is the thing that makes you cry the most?

• 37:49Speaker 02

  Okay, I have some great fears that make me cry. One is I'm scared for my kids. I'm scared that like living this life out loud, um, will cause them harm that I can't see.

• 38:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, because I don't know what it is, you know, um. It's hard enough to have a family that's imperfect. We all have families that are imperfect and we've talked to our kids about this. We, we, they know everything.

• 38:12Lewis Howes?

  Sure. Um. Which is hard.

• 38:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:14Lewis Howes?

  And then all their friends know or whatever.

• 38:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, so that's hard. I mean.

• 38:17Lewis Howes?

  Friends' moms know or whatever, you know, because they read your books.

• 38:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, that kind of stuff. And I don't care about those people. I really don't. I could care less. I mean, I know that everybody's underneath everybody's house. There's fires.

• 38:30Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 38:31Speaker 02

  I mean, I know enough, I talked to enough women to know that there's nobody's life that's perfect, right? Um, but not knowing how living all of this out loud will really affect my kids.

• 38:43Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 38:44Speaker 02

  That scares me and losing the people in my life scares the crap out of me. Like just becoming an age where I look at friends and they're losing their parents or losing people that I love.

• 38:56Lewis Howes?

  Who's the person that scares you the most to lose?

• 38:58Speaker 02

  My sister.

• 39:00Speaker 02

  Isn't that terrible? Cause I know right away I should say my husband or my kids, but. I mean siblings, man, you know, those are the ones who are with you from the time you're born till the time you die. Like I, I don't know, we talk probably eight times a day.

• 39:15Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 39:15Speaker 02

  I mean, every hour, it's ridiculous. Um, I think of her as like one of my lungs, you know, I don't know how. Everything that I do. Is to make her proud.

• 39:27Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 39:27Speaker 02

  Isn't that weird?

• 39:28Lewis Howes?

  Parents?

• 39:29Speaker 02

  No, they're already so proud of me. Like, they they're just glad I'm vertical, Louis. I mean,

• 39:33Lewis Howes?

  But you're alive.

• 39:33Speaker 02

  That I'm like.

• 39:34Lewis Howes?

  You're breathing.

• 39:35Speaker 02

  They don't care. They're just like, oh, my God, you're like a citizen. You're like an upstanding citizen. You have a library card? Like, they are. They just didn't.

• 39:43Lewis Howes?

  The driver's license is not revoked.

• 39:44Speaker 02

  You're not in jail. This is so amazing. But.

• 39:48Lewis Howes?

  Why your sister? Why? Do you have any other siblings?

• 39:51Speaker 02

  No.

• 39:51Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 39:51Speaker 02

  The two of us.

• 39:52Lewis Howes?

  Why? Why to make her proud, not your husband or your kids?

• 39:57Speaker 02

  I don't know. Well, first of all, we're on this journey together.

• 40:00Lewis Howes?

  She works with you.

• 40:00Speaker 02

  Do mom and stare together.

• 40:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, she's working with you.

• 40:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. So this is, I mean, this journey is separate from my husband and kids in a way that's important for it to be separate. I want my family life to be my family life. Like, I don't do anything like that. I don't do anything in my town. No one in my town cares or knows anything about my life.

• 40:18Lewis Howes?

  You're kind of like a retired town in Naples, right?

• 40:21Speaker 02

  I mean, it's Naples, so no one even has the internet. Everyone's ninety, right? And in bed by seven.

• 40:26Lewis Howes?

  I've been to Naples, yes.

• 40:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's exactly my speed, Louis. So awesome. Nine o'clock, everyone's lights out in Naples.

• 40:33Lewis Howes?

  What's the thing you? It's Amanda, right?

• 40:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:36Lewis Howes?

  What's the thing you admire about her the most?

• 40:39Speaker 02

  Well, she's everything that I'm not. So that's the other thing. Like, we make up, we're like one brain. So I'm all the creative. I'm all the feeling. I'm all the, and she's, she's a lawyer. Like, she's, she does absolutely everything that I can't do. So the amazing thing about that is, I feel like oftentimes in friendships or marriages, or there's the practical one, and then there's the dreamer one. And the dreamer one gets to be the dreamer one because there's a practical one, right? Like, so I can only be me because there's her.

• 41:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 41:11Speaker 02

  I can only.

• 41:12Lewis Howes?

  It kind of makes you feel safe to go a little crazy.

• 41:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, and stuff gets done. You know, I mean, I wouldn't, we would have no business. I wouldn't be here. There's no way I would have made it here. I wouldn't have made the flight. I wouldn't, like, I can be myself and always be thinking of these big, creative, beautiful things because she's handling the business, you know? And that's a little bit how Craig is, too. I think people, the dreamer types are often attracted to. The practical, my friend calls it the kite holder and the kite.

• 41:39Lewis Howes?

  It's hard to have two dreamers in a relationship because someone's got to step up and say, let's get something done. Let's be practical and then they become a little resentful that they can't do what they're supposed to do.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 41:50Lewis Howes?

  Right?

• 41:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 41:51Lewis Howes?

  It's like the dreamers has to have a little bit of practicality in them to be able to get things done.

• 41:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:56Lewis Howes?

  If you've got to be able to wake up and brush your teeth.

• 41:57Speaker 02

  Right.

• 41:58Lewis Howes?

  You know, and put clothes on and like.

• 41:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:00Lewis Howes?

  Shower.

• 42:00Speaker 02

  Or if you have a sister, I mean, my sister's two days ago is like, I'm out and she's like, did you put sunscreen on? She's texting me like, it's stuff like that. I'm like, oh my God, no, I didn't put freaking sunscreen on.

• 42:11Speaker 02

  So.

• 42:11Lewis Howes?

  You have so many things in your mind that you're, you know.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  You're always like writing, like thinking big things. That's why people like me are always running into doors and like slamming that, you know, we can't find our keys. We're like, but it's not, we, we don't, we say it's not because we're disorganized, it's because we're thinking of very important things. We can't think of like the mundane things. But, um, no, Craig is like that too. And I, I think I have, I actually, deep in my heart have, I think a big, maybe even bigger respect for the practical ones than the dreamers.

• 42:40Lewis Howes?

  It's hard.

• 42:41Speaker 02

  Because I just feel like they're doing the wor- like they're making it happen while we get to do our, you know, whatever. And Craig's a lot like that too. I mean, every morning my vitamins are all lined up every, I mean, he's, he does all the cooking. He does everything, everything. He's, he's a wife, like he's my wife and I love, I mean, he is, we figured out early on our relationship that our roles needed to be reversed. Cause I was trying to cook and it was a disaster every night, like, and then he took over, we switched roles and everything like started working.

• 43:12Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 43:13Speaker 02

  If you like throw all those roles up and all the things that need to be done as a married couple, and instead of just like letting them fall where they're typically female or typically male, you actually figure out who likes to do, who's better.

• 43:24Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 43:25Speaker 02

  It works out so much better.

• 43:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  He like really loves cooking.

• 43:28Lewis Howes?

  There you go.

• 43:29Speaker 02

  I know, my kids don't even cry at dinner anymore.

• 43:31Lewis Howes?

  Our buddy Rob Bell, he loves to cook now too. I don't know if you know that.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 43:35Lewis Howes?

  He's big into cooking. Kristen was like, I just, he just wants to cook all the time now, so.

• 43:40Speaker 02

  And nobody's complaining, right?

• 43:41Lewis Howes?

  He loves it. And maybe there's different, uh, you know, based on what stage of life we're in, now those rules will change.

• 43:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, maybe. I don't think that one will change. I feel confident, let him have it till we die.

• 43:54Lewis Howes?

  Really? Who knows? You want to pick it up one day.

• 43:57Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 43:58Lewis Howes?

  You'll see it as a creative, uh, uh, the next book to write will involve cooking or something.

• 44:03Speaker 02

  Something.

• 44:03Lewis Howes?

  And you'll just get to play.

• 44:04Speaker 02

  Right.

• 44:05Lewis Howes?

  And he'll be organized with how much ingredients.

• 44:06Speaker 02

  Exactly. He'll do the shopping.

• 44:08Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. Very cool. Uh, what would you say is the thing you admire the most about Craig?

• 44:15Speaker 02

  I know what that is. Um, even when I've never seen, when I said the showing up thing about my sister, I've never seen someone show up as relentlessly as Craig Melton did after our implosion.

• 44:28Lewis Howes?

  Afterwards, he should continue to show up.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, Louis. Like, I was, we had conversations where I was like, listen to me. I'm never coming back to you. Like, it's done. It's over. I'm going for divorce.

• 44:38Lewis Howes?

  I'm never speaking to you again, ever.

• 44:40Speaker 02

  Like, you're, you're wasting your time. And he'd be, and I mean, he would say, I don't care. Like, if it's, if it's the rest of my life, I'm gonna keep.

• 44:46Lewis Howes?

  Oh, wow.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  He's like, go do what you need to do. Go whatever. Like, you are my wife, and no matter what you do, I'm gonna keep showing up for you. And it was just a relentless, it wasn't like weird stalkerish. It was like, every day, like, I'd go out and there'd be like groceries on the front step. I'd go out to my car and all the oil would be changed. I'd go out, like, every freaking day for months. I'm telling you, he would have done it for a decade, I think. He was just, and that, I think so many, so many people just give up, you know? And I don't mean give up. I think there's, I do not think that all marriages should be saved. I know, I'm not one of those at all. Like, I think there are plenty of marriages that just need to die so there can be new life, you know? Um, but one thing that I respect about him is that he just did not go down without a fight.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  And it would have been so easy for him to just be swallowed up in shame and to have let that take him out of the game. And he didn't. So, I mean, he fought like hell for his family and I respect that.

• 45:49Lewis Howes?

  And were you ever unfaithful with him?

• 45:51Speaker 02

  No. No, I mean, are you kidding? I like, didn't even want to make out with him. I wasn't gonna go make out with other people. I was like, it's taken me long enough just to figure out the sex thing with my husband. But you know what? Like, when you, when you say that, like, are you unfaithful? I mean, I just think that sex for Craig was his easy button. I think that when he, that's how what he learned, um, growing up, he's a great looking guy, like, girl, sex for him has always been.

• 46:21Lewis Howes?

  I see photos with you.

• 46:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's really freaking good looking. I know, I know. Can you imagine the poor guy? He's probably like, why don't you want to make out with him?

• 46:28Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 46:28Speaker 02

  Um, but I understand easy buttons, you know, I, I was, I guess in every way you could say I was unfaithful to my family growing up. I mean, I used alcohol and, and other things. But it was lucky for him that I understood that concept, that I understand that you can love someone and let something like sex or booze or drugs get in the way. I knew that because I'd done it for, I love my family. I love my sister. I love, and I still chose alcohol and drugs over them forever. So I understood that concept, you know? So, I mean, I have never been unfaithful with sex with Craig, but I've certainly been unfaithful to

• 47:11Speaker 02

  the people that I love with things like sex and booze and all of that. So I get it.

• 47:16Lewis Howes?

  Sure. Yeah. And you could also say that you were essentially unfaithful for 10 years by not actually being there with him for the thing that he needed or the thing that he wanted, right?

• 47:24Speaker 02

  Totally, totally.

• 47:25Lewis Howes?

  You were somewhere else.

• 47:27Speaker 02

  Absolutely. I mean, I, yeah, that's a really good point. I mean, if there has to be, I mean, to, to, to really be in love, I mean, I think of it being in love. I think it's interesting that people call it in love, like it's a place. Because it really, to me, the way I understand it now is it's a place. Like, it's a place that you fall into with someone else where you are completely present body, mind and spirit. Right, like who you're you're like loving someone with your mind, you're loving someone with your soul, and you're loving someone with your body, like that's being in love.

• 47:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 47:58Speaker 02

  And so I was never that with Craig, because I couldn't be vulnerable with my body, you know, I just so so that's interesting, right? Like, that's the difference in like a truly intimate relationship is that with other people or with other you can be, you can have a meeting of the minds, you can have a meeting of the soul, but to really be in that magical intimate place, you have to be fully present, all three.

• 48:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, now, most people probably don't know, listening, for those that listen to an episode I did about a, I think it was about a year and a half ago, two years ago, I did an episode about experience I had as a kid where I was raped by another man that I didn't know. And I remember you kind of guided me through this, you coached me through this, so thank you again for being there for me. It was like an incredibly challenging, scary moment, so I appreciate you being there for me. And I remember you saying something like, just get ready because you're about to have a big hangover. Something along that, like a vulnerability hangover.

• 48:56Speaker 02

  Yep, yep, yep, yep.

• 48:57Lewis Howes?

  And and I I didn't know what you were even talking about until hundreds of emails came in, messages that were just like heartbreaking, you know, for people sharing their stories about sexual experiences that happened to them, sexual abuse that happened to them when they were younger, and opening up for the first time, and just like my heart broke every time I read an email. And for like a week and a half, I just wasn't myself. I was just like reading these emails, trying to like figure out what's happening, and it was just really heartbreaking. So I'm curious, how do you handle a vulnerability hangover? And how would you coach someone else in that process as well?

• 49:36Speaker 02

  I was so proud of you for that.

• 49:37Lewis Howes?

  Thank you.

• 49:37Speaker 02

  That was so amazing.

• 49:39Lewis Howes?

  I appreciate it.

• 49:39Speaker 02

  It was so amazing. I remember that day that you told me. I think you sent me a text or something and said, I'm gonna do it. It's going live. And I actually pulled my car over.

• 49:47Lewis Howes?

  I appreciate you.

• 49:48Speaker 02

  I like pulled my car over. I was like, oh, my God. All the energy right now, like, let's just.

• 49:53Lewis Howes?

  You were amazing.

• 49:53Speaker 02

  On the other side of the country, but let's just focus this.

• 49:56Lewis Howes?

  You were amazing, yeah. And do you know that, do you know that night? I didn't know what was happening this day, but that night was like a super moon. Did you know this?

• 50:02Speaker 02

  No.

• 50:03Lewis Howes?

  It was like a full moon, but it was like a super moon that only happens like once every hundred years or something.

• 50:06Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 50:07Lewis Howes?

  And so I pressed, I was in this room when I submitted it. And I was like, okay, take a deep breath. It's done. I like, it's up on my blog. And I just sent one tweet with like the headline. And that's all I did. I didn't share it anywhere else.

• 50:19Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 50:20Lewis Howes?

  And then I remember opening this sliding door right here and looking out and seeing the biggest moon I'd ever seen in my life. Like staring at me. I was just like, wow, I was just in awe of this moment. And I looked on Twitter and it was like, one of the brightest super moons is happening right now. And I was like, what the, this is like so weird how it's happening. So. Um, but anyway, sorry. Yeah, you were incredible for, for supporting me. I mean, I asked Lennon to really tell me like everything about how to put this out there in an authentic way that would not upset people, but also people could receive it and understand it. And you were like, I don't, I don't think I could have done it without you. So I appreciate that.

• 50:58Speaker 02

  That's amazing. So brave, so brave. It helped so many people.

• 51:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 51:02Speaker 02

  It still does.

• 51:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 51:04Speaker 02

  Um, I don't know about that vulnerability hangover that Brene Brown says that, that, that we're always gonna feel that when we've revealed something. I mean, I don't know, but I figured out that I really, really believe that we can either be shiny and admired or we can be real and loved. But that we have to choose.

• 51:22Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 51:23Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 51:23Lewis Howes?

  Shiny and admired or real and loved.

• 51:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I, and I, all the time, I mean, I keep choosing real and loved over and over again. And I, you can get hurt there. I mean, that, the, the funny thing is about vulnerabilities, like the thing now, everybody be vulnerable. This is vulnerability, vulnerability. And so people think, okay, I'll do that. That's the answer. So I'll do that and then everything will be awesome, right? But no, I mean, if you're vulnerable, you will get hurt. Like you.

• 51:52Lewis Howes?

  It's scary. It's hard.

• 51:54Speaker 02

  For every six people who like what you've said and who are helped by it, there's gonna be four who hate what you've said and think you're doing it for the wrong reasons and think you're, I mean. When you're gonna be vulnerable, you have to know that there will be, it will not all be pink and fuzzy. Like, there will be pain there. But I really, really think that the pain that comes from being real and loved is not the same as the pain that comes from hiding. Because you're gonna have pain either way. It's pain here or pain here, right? But this kind of pain is just badass pain, you know? It's like, I can take that and I can take more and I can keep, it's freedom, right? Because it's like this, there's a love with it, it's freedom, you're just like, there's no shame

• 52:35Speaker 02

  and it's ouch, but you recover faster and you feel, you feel free and you feel real. And people really know who you are. So if they don't like you, screw them. Like, you know, I mean, maybe they're not the right match for you, but at least you're showing yourself.

• 52:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 52:50Speaker 02

  Over here is just like this withering. You know, it's just like this slow death of like, I've been put on this earth and I'm never gonna be who I, who I am. So, I don't know, with a vulnerability hangover, I would say just keep having it. Just keep choosing it and keep, and when it comes, when the pain comes after you've shared yourself, don't assume that that means you've done something wrong. It's just the pain that comes. It's the right, it's the process. And it gets better, right? You feel it and you hide in your covers and you like eat your ice cream and it's like terrible for a little while and then you're, and then you're fine again.

• 53:27Lewis Howes?

  It's interesting. The more I dive into the vulnerability, at least of that experience, it doesn't own me or control me anymore. It's not scary anymore. Like, I can share it, like, talking about what I ate for dinner last night, essentially, and it doesn't, it's not this scary thing that's like, oh, it's consuming me, it's controlling me, every thought of mine. So, I definitely...

• 53:47Speaker 02

  That's amazing. It's like every time we get those scary demons out from the dark of inside ourselves, we get them out into the light and they're just like these little...

• 53:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 53:57Speaker 02

  You're like, oh my god, I spent my whole life being terrified of that thing and I've gotten it out. And it's like the second, they get out into the light and people start saying, me too? You're like, oh.

• 54:08Speaker 02

  Dumbass.

• 54:09Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 54:10Speaker 02

  Controlled me for so long and it was just like a little gremlin.

• 54:13Lewis Howes?

  And everyone's experiencing it. A lot of people are experiencing it, yeah.

• 54:16Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 54:17Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. I got a few questions left for you. We've been going for a while, but I feel like I could talk for hours with you.

• 54:25Lewis Howes?

  What should we really know about this book? What's the thing that's gonna, who's it gonna be speaking to the most? And what's the biggest lesson that you think people are gonna take away from this?

• 54:36Speaker 02

  Well, it's not an easy book.

• 54:38Lewis Howes?

  Beautifully written, by the way.

• 54:39Speaker 02

  Thank you, thank you. It's not an easy book to read. It's raw and much more honest than people usually are about their marriages.

• 54:51Lewis Howes?

  You're very honest.

• 54:54Speaker 02

  What I think it's about really, because I mean, there's a reason I didn't call it Love Warriors. Like, I don't really see it as a marriage story, actually. I see it as like what happens to someone when really, for real, the shit hits the fan. And you're just torn down to the bottom and you have a choice of just withering away or just rebuilding again. And that's why I call it Love Warrior, because I really think that if our marriage wouldn't have come back together, it would have been written anyway. Right? It just, it would have had a different ending, but it still would have been the warrior's journey.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  I think what it ends up being about is how our ideas, our culture's ideas, what our culture teaches us about masculinity and femininity, make it close to impossible for actual males and actual females to love each other.

• 55:42Lewis Howes?

  So true.

• 55:44Speaker 02

  I mean, I think that's what it comes down to. And I think in order for a real man and a real woman to actually really love each other, the woman and man that you're seeing in front of you, what it requires is an incredible unlearning. An unlearning of everything that the culture has tried to teach you about what it means to be a man, what it means to be a woman. That's what it was for us. It was a peeling away, just this boot camp of realizing how much we'd been poisoned. By our culture until until we were stripped down to who we actually were and we were like, oh, my God, like, I'm finally actually seeing you. I'm not seeing this idea of what I think a man is supposed to be. And I'm not being anymore this idea of what I think a woman is supposed to be.

• 56:30Speaker 02

  This is actually me and actually you. It's going back to the freaking poem in the beginning of the Bible. It's the Garden of Eden. It's like, finally, I am naked and unashamed in front of you.

• 56:42Speaker 02

  That's what it's about.

• 56:42Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, I love it.

• 56:44Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 56:44Lewis Howes?

  I love it. I'm excited. And well, it's already out. It's gonna be, it's gonna be out. Depending on when this comes out, you can preorder it right now, yes. And I'll have it all linked up here at the end of this, but it's called Love Warrior. So make sure to pick this up. It's an exciting book, so I'm glad you're writing it and I know my people are gonna love it. Few questions left for you.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 57:06Lewis Howes?

  This is something that I ask a lot of people at the end of my, my interviews. And before I get to that question, let's ask you another question. What are you most grateful for in your life recently?

• 57:17Speaker 02

  I'm so grateful for my sobriety. I'm so grateful for my sobriety. I feel like sobriety to me is, I mean, for me, it wouldn't even make sense to say to any people. Cause I don't get any, I don't get love from my people without my sobriety, right? So I just, I can't believe that the way I started this life, that I ended up in a place where I can deal with what comes to me. Like in real, like I can deal with the reality of the world and love and pain with no easy buttons. That's what I'm most grateful for.

• 57:49Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. It's the end of your life. Many, many years from now. You've had an incredibly full life. You've achieved every dream you've ever imagined. It's happened, which I'm sure will happen. You've got everyone there, you're peaceful, and you're just about to pass out for the last time. And it's the last time. And for whatever reason, all your books, all your blog posts, everything you've ever created has been erased.

• 58:19Lewis Howes?

  For whatever reason.

• 58:20Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 58:21Lewis Howes?

  And someone in the family says, we've got a piece of paper and a pen. And we know you love to write, so you get to write three final truths. Three things you know to be true about everything you've learned in this life. That you want us to be, us to remember you by and us to use as lessons. So what will those three truths be?

• 58:41Speaker 02

  Oh, Lord have mercy. First of all, this is a very sad scenario.

• 58:47Speaker 02

  I don't recover from that.

• 58:49Lewis Howes?

  Hypothetical.

• 58:52Speaker 02

  All right, so we have three family mantras that we say over and over again, that we've been saying since my kids were teeny.

• 59:01Speaker 02

  And they're all over our house and so they're ingrained in them. And so I think that truly if my family were around me, what I would say to them is what I've always said to them. Which is, we can do hard things. We belong to each other. And love wins.

• 59:17Lewis Howes?

  Little Rob Bell in there, all right.

• 59:20Speaker 02

  We had that sign like long before love wins came out.

• 59:23Lewis Howes?

  Crazy.

• 59:24Speaker 02

  It was just so weird because we're just always so, I love that man.

• 59:27Lewis Howes?

  Unbelievable.

• 59:29Speaker 02

  But yeah, I mean, those are every time, you know, when the marriage implosion, like we'd say over, we can do it. We can do hard things, like we can do hard things. And we belong to each other, the Mother Teresa quote that is, if we have no peace, it's because we've forgotten that we belong to each other. And I mean, most of my work with Together Rising, which are a nonprofit, is just all about remembering. That we're one human family and just, you know, if we, if we're going to find peace, it's going to be by remembering that we belong to each other.

• 1:00:03Lewis Howes?

  I love that.

• 1:00:04Speaker 02

  And love wins is just, you know what, there's always two choices in front of you and they're always love and fear.

• 1:00:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  Always.

• 1:00:13Speaker 02

  And, you know, we can choose fear as much as we want and I do all the time. But we know that it won't get us anywhere.

• 1:00:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:20Speaker 02

  We know that the, the love choice is usually the hard choice, you know, and it's the one that always pays off. So those scenarios.

• 1:00:32Speaker 02

  As a mom, those are the three things that over and over again, I try to teach my kids.

• 1:00:36Lewis Howes?

  Awesome. If you were given, I would give you a lump sum of money that was essentially an unlimited amount of money to solve one problem in the world. And you could use it only for that one thing. And when you spent it, it would solve the problem of this thing in the world. What would you want to solve?

• 1:00:56Speaker 02

  Well, at this moment in time, it would be the refugee crisis. I mean, that's what we kind of tried to do with our little, we did a compassion collective at Christmas time with Liz Gilbert and Rob Bell and Cheryl Strayed and Brene Brown.

• 1:01:12Speaker 02

  My God, I just, what's going on right now with the displaced people fleeing from terror and having no homes for their children and the terrified countries who are scared to let them in. And I know that's complicated. But through that effort and through a lot of what Amy does with Together Rising, we've learned more than I could ever unknow. It's becomes pretty much all we think about.

• 1:01:42Speaker 02

  The compassion collective effort continues. We're working with a group called Help Refugees, who is all over, who's a UK-based organization and they're amazing. They're in all of the camps, just trying to feed and clothe and save these babies. So, you know, that would be it right now.

• 1:02:01Lewis Howes?

  Right. Okay, awesome. And your life is extremely public. You write everything about everything. What's something that you haven't written about that people don't know about you that you're really proud of?

• 1:02:15Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh, that's weird. Well, okay, so I have this thing that I'm not gonna, so we have this thing at Together Rising where we say, we always want to be better than people think we are. Because I feel like so many organizations are like, not as good as people think they are. Do you know, like, they have these, like, awesome, they're telling people about them, especially nonprofits or, you know, whatever. But like, then when you dig deeper.

• 1:02:45Speaker 02

  So I want to be the opposite of that. I want to be like, if the more people peeled back, the more they'd be like, oh, my God, and they do that, and they do that. So we're always doing, like, the things that Together Rising does behind the scenes, the things that no one will know. I would, because I'm like an incredibly prideful person, I would just love for someone to accidentally discover it all, you know, and, but, um, I don't know. I mean, my people work their butts off every day to keep people's lights on and to, to, to help people adopt kids and to, um, God, it just never ends. And so I'm fiercely, fiercely proud of the work that Together Rising does every day. Not just, not the big things, like the refugees and Love Flash mobs and all

• 1:03:27Speaker 02

  of that. I'm talking about the little stuff, like every single day that the emails we get from people who have needs and trust us to meet them. And every day, that stuff happens.

• 1:03:36Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 1:03:37Speaker 02

  It's magic.

• 1:03:38Lewis Howes?

  I love it. Cool. One final question.

• 1:03:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:03:40Lewis Howes?

  Before I ask it, I want to acknowledge you, Glenn, for your incredible gift and your love and the choice that you make every day to tell the truth, to be honest about everything, and to choose love. I think it's incredible that you're doing the work, that you continue to go around the country and the world and show up for people that want to listen and that want to show up courageously in their lives. And I think it's incredible that you're a symbol for so many people to see what's possible. Not what's perfect, but what's possible. And so I really want to acknowledge you for the incredible gift that you are. And I appreciate you.

• 1:04:17Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:04:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you're welcome.

• 1:04:18Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh, that was beautiful. Nobody ever does that. You're so good. You're so good at seeing people. Thank you.

• 1:04:24Lewis Howes?

  You're welcome. My final question, before I ask it, where should we connect with you online? Where do you like to hang out the most?

• 1:04:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I'm like an old soccer mom, so I'm on Facebook. My son's like, Mom, only old people are on Facebook. And I said, no, I love Facebook. And he goes, exactly.

• 1:04:44Lewis Howes?

  Like, oh wait, I'm not that young anymore.

• 1:04:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I'm at Glennon Doyle Melton on Facebook and I love Instagram too.

• 1:04:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I love your Instagram.

• 1:04:53Speaker 02

  And then I'm on Twitter, but I suck at Twitter. So all I do is accidentally retweet people. I don't know. I accidentally tweeted a deodorant company yesterday. So I'm not amazing at Twitter. So maybe Instagram and Facebook.

• 1:05:05Lewis Howes?

  Instagram is good. Yeah, I like your Instagram.

• 1:05:07Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:05:08Lewis Howes?

  Cool. And also your site, momastery.com.

• 1:05:10Speaker 02

  Yes, momastery.com.

• 1:05:12Lewis Howes?

  And get the book, Love Warrior. We'll have it all linked up here in a second on the show notes. The final question is, what's your definition of greatness?

• 1:05:22Speaker 02

  I love people. I think people are great, who whether they're doing big shiny things that are visible, or like the hard work of the world, like relationships and parenting and who are just over and over again relentlessly choosing love, whether anybody knows about it or not. That's greatness to me.

• 1:05:45Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. I love it. Glennon, thanks so much for coming on. I appreciate you.

• 1:05:49Speaker 02

  The best. You're the best.

• 1:05:51Lewis Howes?

  Appreciate it.

• 1:05:51Speaker 02

  Oh, thank you, Lewis.

• 1:05:56Lewis Howes?

  There you have it. Love Warriors. I hope you enjoyed this one. And if you did, make sure to share it with your friends and leave a comment and let me know what you thought on the YouTube channel, on the show notes, or just at Lewis Howes on Twitter. And hit up Glennon as well. All of her social media and all of her book information is at lewishouse.com/376. Again, share this with your friends. If you enjoyed it and you want others to get value from what you're learning, then spread the message. That's the best way. To gain is to give. So make sure to continue to give and spread the message of greatness for all of your friends and family so they can gain on this wisdom and information as well. I love you guys so very much. It means the world to me that you

• 1:06:38Lewis Howes?

  show up here every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday when we release new episodes. I'm all about researching and discovering how we can become better human beings, how we can optimize all of the tools and gifts that were given to us and make them even better so we can live. Live fully, love deeply, and have an amazing, inspiring life. So, thank you guys so much for being here. I love you very much. And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.