Andy Roddick (former professional tennis player)

Andy Roddick (Served) is a Grand Slam-winning tennis champion. Andy joins the Armchair Expert to discuss when his tennis rankings weren’t as good as his older brother’s until the day it flipped, whether he thinks you’re born or made with the disposition of an elite athlete, and how undervalued a skill it is to get beat and go to work the next day. Andy and Dax talk about the dividends gained from taking 10 years off of tennis, the protectiveness his father showed over his career and finances, and his mom bribing him with tickets to the US Open for a good report card. Andy explains the morning he woke up at 30 and decided to retire, the joy of doing SNL, and being spoiled by greatness in the sport of tennis today. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert, Experts on Expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Lily Patton.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 0:05Dax Shepard?

  Today we have Andy Roddick on. And if anyone was curious who this sexy guest was who sweat a little bit. This is it.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  He's, he was very.

• 0:18Dax Shepard?

  Go all the way.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  He's just a very attractive person in general. He looks attractive, he sounds attractive, and he is attractive.

• 0:28Dax Shepard?

  It turns out, he's attractive. Yeah, I was absolutely charmed to no end by Andy. Um, I really just thought he was spectacular.

• 0:35Speaker 01

  He was very easy to talk to.

• 0:36Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes, yes. He's not just easy on the eyes, he's very easy on the ears. Andy Roddick is a tennis champion, former world number one and US Open champion, three-time Wimbledon finalist, and a 2017 first-ballot inductee into the International Tennis Hall of Fame. And he has a podcast called Served with Andy Roddick, which is like the best tennis podcast out there. You can watch it on YouTube or listen wherever you get your pods. Please enjoy our new boyfriend, Andy Roddick. We get support from AG1. Fall is that time when your body and mind are getting ready for the winter. You're settling in, bracing for the cold. Your body's already running a deficit from the shorter days and broken sleep patterns.

• 1:21Dax Shepard?

  You don't want a nutrient deficit stacked on top of that, too.

• 1:24Speaker 01

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• 1:37Dax Shepard?

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• 1:51Speaker 01

  That's the part people miss. It's not a one-day fix, it's what happens when you stay consistent.

• 1:55Dax Shepard?

  It's an easy, everyday thing. I've added it to my morning routine and I'm gonna tell you, I actually love the taste of it. It's like Pavlovian. I drink it and I know, mm, I'm gonna get that little vitamin buzz.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  Well, that's also the thing. When you do it first thing in the morning, you already feel kind of. Self-esteem because you're like, I already did something good for myself.

• 2:12Dax Shepard?

  Yes. Go to drinkag1.com/dax and for a limited time, get a free immunity bundle, including a bottle of omega-3 fish oil and a bottle of vitamin D3 K2 with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro. That's drinkag1.com/dax. And after checkout, be sure to let them know that Armchair Experts sent you. This episode is supported by Helix.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  Dax, is there anything better than crawling into a perfect bed on a cold fall night? Candlelit, hoodie on, maybe even some rain outside. The dream.

• 2:51Dax Shepard?

  That's the dream. You just described one of my ideal fall nights.

• 2:55Speaker 01

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• 3:09Dax Shepard?

  Ooh.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Which I really.

• 3:11Dax Shepard?

  Increasingly so.

• 3:12Speaker 01

  I need it. I have to have it. And I heard that you're supposed to sleep at a cold temp.

• 3:19Dax Shepard?

  Hmm.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  Optimal sleep. It's very, very helpful.

• 3:22Dax Shepard?

  She is not wrong. I have one too, and it's been such a game changer for sleep. And I love that they make it so easy. Free shipping right to your door. And with their happy with Helix guarantee, you'll get a full 365 nights to try it. A whole year to live in that cozy. They've got over 20 mattress models. So no matter how you sleep, they've got one for you.

• 3:42Speaker 01

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• 3:49Dax Shepard?

  Go to helixsleep.com/armchair for 20% off site wide. That's helixsleep.com/armchair for 20% off site wide. Helixsleep.com/armchair.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 4:21Dax Shepard?

  This is me, exactly.

• 4:23Speaker 02

  Just straight to the suckin' up, waste no time.

• 4:26Dax Shepard?

  I never offer this to drivers when they're in the driveway.

• 4:28Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 4:29Dax Shepard?

  I don't know why, but we're walking by and like, "Hey brother, there's a urinal in the garage if you need that, it's unlocked." And he was like, "Oh, okay."

• 4:38Speaker 01

  He was really holding it in.

• 4:40Speaker 02

  He was bottled up.

• 4:41Speaker 01

  He was.

• 4:42Speaker 02

  He was, he was about to break.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  You could sense it.

• 4:45Speaker 02

  I didn't know I had that ability, but here we are.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  It's like a superpower you didn't know.

• 4:49Speaker 02

  That's like a good thing to say aloud to people, because you don't think about it, maybe. It's kind of like a dick thing to not think about, right?

• 4:54Dax Shepard?

  And what was that guy gonna do for the next two hours?

• 4:57Speaker 01

  He's gonna have to find a cup, yep.

• 5:00Speaker 02

  He was gonna prove the toughness and no one was gonna know.

• 5:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right.

• 5:03Dax Shepard?

  He's gonna have prostate issues. He's gonna go home to his wife and he's gonna be like, "My prostate's on fire."

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 5:10Speaker 02

  You just saved him from the end.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  Also, you just wanted to talk about your urinal.

• 5:15Dax Shepard?

  I mean, I don't mind that people know I have a urinal in my garage. Does that excite you, Andy?

• 5:19Speaker 02

  A little bit, more than it should.

• 5:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 5:21Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna be honest, this is more bragging, because it's name droppery. But he's passed, so I can do it now. But I was once at Ozzy.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  Is that the way it works?

• 5:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I think so. You and I are gonna get to talk about our dads as wildly as we want to.

• 5:33Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 5:33Dax Shepard?

  That's the one upside of having lost dads.

• 5:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:35Dax Shepard?

  You can really tell the truth.

• 5:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:37Dax Shepard?

  But, yeah, I was one time at Ozzy Osbourne's house, and I went to use the bathroom, and there was this gorgeous black urinal in there with like, gold fixtures, and I was like, "Of course."

• 5:46Speaker 02

  That's kind of what I wanted it to look like.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  Yes, he's really delivered.

• 5:50Dax Shepard?

  That's where the obsession came in then.

• 5:51Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 5:53Dax Shepard?

  That was the secret.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  Really rest in peace.

• 5:56Dax Shepard?

  But at the old house, when Kristen moved in, I had a urinal in the hallway there, based on the Ozzy thing. And she was like, "This is so fucking tacky." And got rid of it. So I didn't have it, but now I have a garage. And I go, "That's where the urinal's gonna live."

• 6:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:11Dax Shepard?

  Do you have anything stupid like that at your house where you bartered with your wife?

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Oh, good question.

• 6:15Speaker 02

  Oh, I just got like my first room.

• 6:16Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you did?

• 6:17Speaker 02

  Ever, yeah. She has me trained well. I have like a lounger and a TV. I'm like, I made it.

• 6:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, killing it.

• 6:21Speaker 02

  This is it.

• 6:22Speaker 01

  But you're stylish, so I feel like you probably have a high standard for aesthetics.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  It's generous.

• 6:27Dax Shepard?

  I think he's mostly known for wearing T-shirts and shit in interviews.

• 6:30Speaker 01

  It's really stylish T-shirts.

• 6:31Dax Shepard?

  Is that a really stylish one?

• 6:33Speaker 02

  Like, yeah.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Look at him!

• 6:34Speaker 02

  This is, this is it. My wife, she's a designer and she does all that stuff. And it's like, if I don't value my opinion more than I value your opinion, why should I get 50% of the say in what goes in this room?

• 6:44Speaker 01

  Wow, that's mature.

• 6:45Dax Shepard?

  Well, that's her stance or yours?

• 6:46Speaker 02

  That's mine. With design, I don't trust my opinion more than yours. Why should it be valued right now in this conversation?

• 6:51Dax Shepard?

  Agreed. And if we're gonna talk about what power plant the car should have, maybe you defer to me.

• 6:56Speaker 02

  I'm an idiot. Very narrow silo of...

• 6:59Speaker 01

  We can all defer to that.

• 7:01Dax Shepard?

  It's gotta be tennis question.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  Pretty much. I wasn't a dummy.

• 7:05Dax Shepard?

  Well, I was thrilled to learn a couple of things about you today. We have some mutual loves I discovered right out of the gates. So you grew up in Austin, four to 11?

• 7:12Speaker 02

  I grew up there and then went back, so I've been there 25 years.

• 7:15Dax Shepard?

  The day after you won the US...

• 7:17Speaker 02

  Correct, geez, yeah.

• 7:18Dax Shepard?

  You flew down there and bought a house immediately?

• 7:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 7:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so I have that same crazy love affair with Austin.

• 7:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:24Dax Shepard?

  What was it like growing up there?

• 7:26Speaker 02

  It was different than it is now. There weren't 60-story pre-sold commercial buildings. It was Willie Nelson playing Anton's and this weird place in Texas that makes no sense compared to the rest of Texas.

• 7:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 7:38Speaker 02

  It was great. You know, we moved from Nebraska. Most of my formative memories are probably from Austin and your parents move you around and then when you have your own decision to make, I went back there.

• 7:46Dax Shepard?

  What part of Austin were you in?

• 7:48Speaker 02

  Well, it used to be kind of the outskirts and then it became, I guess, the main skirts.

• 7:51Dax Shepard?

  Like Westlake area?

• 7:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. The hills out there.

• 7:53Dax Shepard?

  Good guess.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  You knew that. Speaking of people who have passed, sadly, Robert Redford passed, and I almost sent this to you. Apparently, he loved Barton Springs.

• 8:02Dax Shepard?

  Oh, no way!

• 8:03Speaker 02

  Barton Springs is cool.

• 8:04Dax Shepard?

  That's my temple.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  It's amazing. The whole Town Lake situation, right off of downtown, you can be crunchy and you can be downtown in like four minutes.

• 8:11Dax Shepard?

  If I go there for a week, my commitment is like, I go to Barton Springs every day, gotta go every day. But I just recently discovered going at night. I guess I didn't realize it was open at night. So the notion that you can float in the springs and be looking at the lit up city?

• 8:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:23Dax Shepard?

  That feels impossible.

• 8:24Speaker 02

  Do you like it so much that if you take someone and they don't love it as much as you, you're disappointed?

• 8:28Dax Shepard?

  Then they're out.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  No, they're not. I'm still here. I'm still standing.

• 8:33Dax Shepard?

  But my financial security is tied to you, so you have a lot of leverage.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  There are exceptions, yeah.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:39Dax Shepard?

  But did you not like... I mean, she got booted. She got thrown out.

• 8:42Speaker 02

  You got thrown out?

• 8:43Dax Shepard?

  She had 86.

• 8:44Speaker 02

  Is that possible in Austin?

• 8:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:46Dax Shepard?

  What'd you do?

• 8:47Speaker 01

  They don't let you bring in any food. By the way, it wasn't just me. It was a bunch of us.

• 8:50Dax Shepard?

  It was a black mark on my reputation there, I'll say.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  I know. You distanced yourself from us so fast.

• 8:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, you can't. Her mistakes can't become yours and vice versa.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  Cheez-Its and snacks. And this Australian woman who runs the place very well.

• 9:07Dax Shepard?

  For that month, I'll just add, the turnover there is very high.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  She lit into us and she was like, you gotta go. And we were like, well, we'll just put it in the car.

• 9:16Speaker 02

  Oh, so it wasn't like a water bottle through TSA where it's you just gotta go back and start again? This was like, you were done.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  Come back. Take your food and get the fuck out.

• 9:25Dax Shepard?

  We hate you.

• 9:25Speaker 02

  Did she actually say that?

• 9:26Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 9:28Dax Shepard?

  That accent. This is funny, because we got in a fight about this.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  I mean, because an Aussie saying that's kind of funny.

• 9:33Dax Shepard?

  It's kind of funny, and then it's...

• 9:34Speaker 02

  It's funnier when they cuss.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  Well, also, we were just like, there's a very easy solution. We'll just put it away. We'll just remove the food. Nope, already saw it. Already saw it.

• 9:43Speaker 02

  To be fair, you had just proven that you weren't to be trusted.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  I guess. I'm a very trustworthy person. I just love Cheez-Its.

• 9:50Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so you grew up there, and then you're the youngest of three boys.

• 9:54Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:55Dax Shepard?

  Do you think you would have ever been a professional athlete without competing with two people that are way older than you? And not just in tennis, just the whole ride.

• 10:03Speaker 02

  I always thought about it because my middle brother played tennis and was good at tennis.

• 10:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 10:06Speaker 02

  So I like the way that you frame that because I normally thought about it. I had this exposure to tennis at like a really high level. So I think I gave a lot of credit to that as opposed to just the basic structure of you're fighting uphill the whole way. So then when you get to neutral, it feels like you're downhill. I think I was a little bit of a whoopsie. My oldest brother was going to college when I was going to preschool.

• 10:25Dax Shepard?

  No!

• 10:26Speaker 02

  So it's like, we didn't even live in the same place. My next brother was six years older, which...

• 10:30Dax Shepard?

  Ooh, even worse.

• 10:31Speaker 02

  In sports is like an eternity. We kind of had the same thing, and you know, the rankings told the story that I wasn't horrible, but it was, you weren't him. Luckily for us, it flipped one summer very quickly. You know, he was a four-time All-American at Georgia and played well and was one of the top juniors in the world. And then one summer, he's drilling me when he comes home from school, and the next summer, it flips.

• 10:47Speaker 01

  Wait, at University of Georgia?

• 10:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:49Speaker 01

  That's where I went to school.

• 10:50Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 10:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:52Dax Shepard?

  You could have even been, no?

• 10:54Speaker 02

  No, he was born in seventy-six.

• 10:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's not gonna work out.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  Oh, messy. We just barely missed each other by twelve years.

• 11:00Speaker 02

  Just barely missed each other by a decade.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 11:02Dax Shepard?

  He's been retired for twenty-five years.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  That's exciting. Go, dog.

• 11:04Dax Shepard?

  Do you remember beating your brother at tennis for the first time?

• 11:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I'm still not totally convinced that he didn't take a dive.

• 11:10Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 11:11Speaker 02

  It's where he was leaving college. He was pretty sure he didn't want to try tours. So the benefit to me was way more than the benefit to him. I still have an ass to him about it because I don't know that I would believe anything he said.

• 11:22Dax Shepard?

  I don't think he did. I don't think you can.

• 11:24Speaker 01

  I don't think he did either.

• 11:25Dax Shepard?

  Nobody, he's not Jesus. He might be a great dude, but I don't think he's like from another planet.

• 11:31Speaker 02

  I was excited because then I knew when my mom was like, well, look at your brother. I'm like, that bum? The guy who sucks now?

• 11:38Dax Shepard?

  The has-been I just mopped the court with?

• 11:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  But did it cause any friction between you two? Not at all.

• 11:44Dax Shepard?

  I think the age gap's so big.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  So big that like you basically just ignore each other. There was no sibling rivalry because it was just he was here and it was here and then he was gone and I was home. I probably annoyed him at a certain point, you know, when you're eight and fourteen or something.

• 11:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:57Speaker 02

  But once you get older, there's no day-to-day orbit and friction, at least in my experience.

• 12:01Dax Shepard?

  I'll just say, I bring up your brothers because you guys moved to Florida for your middle brother to pursue his tennis career. Were you bummed to move to Florida?

• 12:09Speaker 02

  I honestly don't remember. That's a little misleading. He was good. I was one of the top in the country in my age division. So it wasn't as if we moved there and I started playing tennis. It was pretty established.

• 12:17Dax Shepard?

  But you were only eleven?

• 12:18Speaker 02

  I was ten. I think it was new and exciting. I mean, imagine this. You all have probably experienced it at some point. You've had this crazy growth trajectory, but we landed, I'm ten, and at that point in Austin, I was nine, beating sixteen-year-olds. So I was number one in the city in sixteen and unders. And I always tell people with athletic children, when you think they're really good, just travel a little further.

• 12:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 12:39Speaker 02

  Right? So we get to Florida and all of a sudden I see two girls hitting on these courts down at the end. Their names were Venus and Serena.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  Stop it.

• 12:48Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow. How old were they?

• 12:50Speaker 02

  Serena's about my age and Venus is, you know, two years older.

• 12:53Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 12:54Speaker 02

  And so three years of our existence after we moved to Florida was like, you think you're good.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 12:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 12:58Speaker 02

  And then you see, I get Goosebumps talking about like Jennifer Capriati was there who won majors and made the final semis of the USA when she was like 13.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 13:06Dax Shepard?

  Well, you've now moved to the epicenter of tennis.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  Well, you see like pro players and it's going, oh, I thought it was okay.

• 13:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 13:12Speaker 02

  And now I suck again. Parts of that are exciting, parts of that are scary.

• 13:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I bet. That's the first round of caving that's on the table. Like, that could be overwhelming and you could give up.

• 13:21Speaker 02

  Like getting beat and just going to work the next morning is like a superpower. It's like an undervalued skill.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 13:26Speaker 02

  You know, you could be sad and work. And so like, I've always been okay with that balance and have failed many, many times. But that part was cool where you arrive and it's like, this is where the next 20 years of tennis is getting made. I even realized that at a young age. So that part was exciting, but you know, you miss people and things.

• 13:40Dax Shepard?

  So your dad grew up working on a dairy farm. He was in the military. He ran a Jiffy Lube. He's a tough dude, yeah?

• 13:46Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:47Dax Shepard?

  Where does he rank in these parents of child athletes? You hear these kind of stories.

• 13:52Speaker 02

  He was very tough, but also most of the parents of the child athletes want to be noticed and want credit. He wanted no credit.

• 14:01Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 14:02Speaker 02

  They never sat in my player box, were never visible on TV until the cameras like found them like crouching in some random part of the stadium. So differentiated in that it was completely altruistic.

• 14:14Dax Shepard?

  It wasn't his own glory he was seeking.

• 14:16Speaker 02

  No, I fully believe that. But it was like, this is a choice. This is an opportunity. You don't have to do it. If you do it, we're gonna do it. This isn't like a half-assed type thing. And it was military that way. And anything that I was doing was not hard compared to him running a farm when he was 12 or 13 years old. So the base comp for any conversation we started wasn't good for me.

• 14:33Dax Shepard?

  Right, right.

• 14:34Speaker 02

  You know, so he was hard.

• 14:36Dax Shepard?

  Where was it productive and useful? What aspects of it do you have a lot of gratitude for? And which ones were probably not helpful?

• 14:43Speaker 02

  It's probably the same. It's just a matter of if you get through. Tennis is weird. You should not have kids playing nine hours a day when you're eight or nine years old. Tennis is one of those sports that that has to happen.

• 14:51Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 14:52Speaker 02

  You don't have stories in tennis where it's like, it's a random reference, but I remember a guy who got drafted number one in the NBA, Michael Oliva Candy. Like, he started playing basketball freshman year of college.

• 15:01Dax Shepard?

  Rodman started at like 21 years old.

• 15:03Speaker 02

  That story doesn't exist.

• 15:04Dax Shepard?

  In tennis. Yeah, you guys are more like symphony musicians.

• 15:07Speaker 02

  It's like this weird thing and you have to get. Get used to this kind of lifestyle training thing before you are old enough to realize it's weird. I was pretty aware. I went to normal schools. It was this weird divide between no one at my school knew that I could do this thing. And so you're dealing with every little issue that every kid has, whether it's not fitting in, or this, that, and the other.

• 15:27Dax Shepard?

  A girl doesn't like you.

• 15:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, someone's little brother trying to kick the shit out of you.

• 15:31Dax Shepard?

  Cause he just found out he's strong.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then all of a sudden, two o'clock hits and you go to practice and all of a sudden you're elite at something.

• 15:38Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and you're valued.

• 15:40Speaker 02

  And so you have like this shift midday every day. Where it's like you put on your cape and then all of a sudden you're good at something.

• 15:45Dax Shepard?

  Great. Well, I would imagine that would make most people pretty dualistic.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  Or arrogant.

• 15:52Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  Don't you think?

• 15:53Dax Shepard?

  Well, I just think you really get used to having multiple identities in different spaces. And there's like a quarter between these. And when you go to school, you can't bring your cockiness from the court.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  You shouldn't.

• 16:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  That's what I'm saying. People probably do.

• 16:06Dax Shepard?

  It won't go well.

• 16:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:08Dax Shepard?

  Minimally. I would imagine you get pretty well versed in kind of snapping back and forth to two versions of yourself.

• 16:15Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 16:16Dax Shepard?

  That feels too self indulgent for you.

• 16:18Speaker 02

  No, definitely didn't realize it in the moment. You're shy when you're at school unless you're playing a sport or something. And then you kind of get a little cocky, to your point.

• 16:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 16:25Speaker 02

  You know, but I've realized the value of different places, different things at different moments. The value of traveling when you're 13 to Cali Columbia by yourself or going to Hong Kong. I don't know that I realized how weird that was, but also as I get older, the value of that, if it doesn't go completely sideways. And I think that's a razor's edge. There's a million people in tennis.

• 16:45Dax Shepard?

  They did all that and it really didn't yield anything.

• 16:47Speaker 02

  Besides maybe damage of having done that stuff.

• 16:49Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 16:50Speaker 02

  There's a lot of issues. So I think if you get to the other side of it, it's great. Where you're actually pragmatic enough and you feel like your cup is full enough to look backwards and say, that was really good for me. And I don't know that that's a one size fits all thing.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:02Dax Shepard?

  Do you follow F1 at all?

• 17:03Speaker 02

  Not really.

• 17:04Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Well, Max Verstappen, the four time reigning champ. His dad famously on the way home from the track pulled over a gas station was like, "Get out. You're walking home because you didn't go for that pass in the turn and you had it." I mean, just brutal. Now, the fact that he's a four-time world champion, you're like, "Okay, well..."

• 17:19Speaker 01

  Tiger, Serena, and Venus. I mean, you hear all the stories and it's hard to say-

• 17:24Dax Shepard?

  But we never talk about the ones where it's like, "Well, they never even got there and you left your fucking kid at the gas station." She was like, "It's only a-"

• 17:29Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, no, that kid might be dead now.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  I remember, and she never lets me forget it, I remember playing Serena in like a practice match and they were famous for, "We're not going to play junior tennis tournaments." And we're all like, "How do you learn how to compete?" You can see how good they are. And also, "This will never work." Idiots, right? And so, we would play, you know, as the best kid and Serena at that point was like she is now, she's an absolute beautiful, physical specimen. She is an absolute like-

• 17:52Speaker 01

  What an amazing person.

• 17:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, totally. So, we're playing and her dad or the coaches at the academy, they're all in on this program with these two. It's like, "Okay, I guess so. We'll see if it works." It worked. But like having kids from the academy surround the court and cheer against them.

• 18:05Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 18:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. She didn't say this. You see her go over and you're looking and she's like, "Fuck you."

• 18:12Dax Shepard?

  It's fueling something.

• 18:13Speaker 02

  If it works-

• 18:14Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 18:15Speaker 02

  I don't know that there's neutral.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  Are you born with the disposition or is it made? That's sort of my question.

• 18:20Speaker 02

  Again, I don't think it's absolute.

• 18:22Dax Shepard?

  I think like everything, it's not binary.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:24Dax Shepard?

  And it's some combination.

• 18:25Speaker 02

  If you time it when you're ready, you could be ready at 12 and not ready at 9.

• 18:30Dax Shepard?

  Well, you tried to quit at 16?

• 18:33Speaker 02

  This is going to sound arrogant. This isn't real for most people and I understand it's insane. My version of quitting was after I lost to Junior Wimbledon, threw all my rackets away. I knew at that point I could go to any college of my choice on a full ride. So, I wasn't quitting that. It was more like, "I'm quitting progress." "I'm quitting working towards this pro thing. It's not there. I'm going to go to Georgia."

• 18:55Dax Shepard?

  And be a stud.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  I'm going to dominate Keggers and Courts.

• 18:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's so fun!

• 18:59Speaker 02

  I know. My brother had the most fun of any person that's ever gone to Georgia. The story gets told and my version of quitting is like, "I left my rackets in England." Nothing's a straight line.

• 19:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  And there were levels to stuff. I knew that I could go anywhere to college. I knew I could play. And that wasn't a cocky or arrogant thing to say. That was truth. There were offers, but also it's like, you have this comfortable thing. That is gonna be awesome. You know, life is gonna be great until you're like 22.

• 19:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 19:22Speaker 02

  Or 23 and it's gonna be fantastic and you can train or not train. But there's that choice to gonna go past what you can be content with. That's a hard thing.

• 19:30Dax Shepard?

  You're gonna have to have another whole round of misery. You've been suffering to get to this level, but to get to that level, there'll be more suffering. You're signing up for more suffering.

• 19:38Speaker 02

  Isn't that everything, though?

• 19:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 19:40Speaker 02

  That's not tennis specific, right?

• 19:41Dax Shepard?

  No, right, right, right.

• 19:41Speaker 02

  That's just like, you don't feel content. You wanna keep going and building. And there's a next interesting conversation. There's something you haven't touched on. There's always something, right?

• 19:48Speaker 01

  For me, yes.

• 19:49Dax Shepard?

  For her, yes, I am getting to the age.

• 19:51Speaker 02

  Really?

• 19:52Dax Shepard?

  I am. I'm eight years older than you, I think. I'm just starting to feel like, yeah, we did a lot this lifetime and we did enough.

• 20:00Speaker 02

  If you didn't do enough for six months, would you still feel that way?

• 20:03Dax Shepard?

  That's the fear, but I will say I had a lot of practice as a struggling actor. So for eight years, I never got any work.

• 20:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:09Dax Shepard?

  So I got pretty good at learning how to exist with like no purpose.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  No, you didn't. You were a drug addict.

• 20:13Dax Shepard?

  I was a drug addict and a drunk.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  Awesome.

• 20:16Dax Shepard?

  But I didn't drink way to the movies. I like exercise. I like bike riding. I like working on shit. I'm very content not doing it. I could be wrong, but I have a different mindset for sure than I had at 42.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 20:28Dax Shepard?

  And I can just feel it and I'm welcoming it. I like it.

• 20:31Speaker 02

  Did you used to have guilt about it?

• 20:33Dax Shepard?

  Oh, tremendous. I think at the core of it all is, am I worthy of love?

• 20:39Dax Shepard?

  Just by existing or do I need to be spectacular?

• 20:42Speaker 02

  I understand.

• 20:42Dax Shepard?

  So my story, my whole life is I have to be spectacular to be loved by everyone. And I'm approaching a zone where I'm like, no, I think I can just exist and people will love me. And so that's an interesting thing to unplug from.

• 20:55Speaker 01

  But what about day to day purpose?

• 20:57Dax Shepard?

  Well, I have two kids is my purpose, you know, I get up and drive them to school and I'm very involved.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  Okay, so then you drive them to school and then.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  The hours.

• 21:05Speaker 02

  Where's the purpose meter between eight and four?

• 21:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 21:09Dax Shepard?

  I'm pretty involved with helping dudes that are getting so I have a lot of things.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. Don't you think though, and maybe I'm wrong, I don't have kids, but I feel like if you are your parents' sole purpose.

• 21:23Speaker 01

  That's tough.

• 21:24Dax Shepard?

  If they feel the weight of that.

• 21:25Speaker 02

  Our kids probably feel like their sole purpose, not knowing what we do when they go to like, you have an entire work life.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 21:31Speaker 02

  But I do think it's important, we're happy, and I'm sure you are too, that your parents actually see you working. That might matter.

• 21:36Dax Shepard?

  And the mom still wants to work for a while, so they'll see plenty of work. Here's what it is, Andy. You've been given this enormous gift. I've been given this enormous gift. I could explore the world, and I could figure out what purposes other than being productive. I have that opportunity, and I feel like it would be very dishonoring to that insane amount of luck I've had, to not challenge myself to find out what else is there in life other than being productive and accomplishing things and being spectacular. To me, it's a challenge in its own right. It is purpose in its own right. Can I unplug from the production fucking hamster wheel, in the growing and growing and growing, and explore and listen and be a part of the planet?

• 22:18Speaker 02

  Have you not done that at all?

• 22:19Dax Shepard?

  Yes, I have windows of that.

• 22:20Speaker 02

  By choice.

• 22:21Dax Shepard?

  By choice. Do you mean like, do I take breaks and stuff?

• 22:25Speaker 02

  People's journeys aren't the same. I was away from tennis for nine, 10 years.

• 22:29Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  Before I wasn't. I had that beat to where now I feel the opposite of you. I feel refreshed. You feel like you're gaining on something. You feel like you're going.

• 22:37Dax Shepard?

  But Andy, also, we started this podcast when I was exactly your age. I directed a movie. It didn't work out. I was completely depressed. I sat around for six months, and then I was like, okay, I need a whole new racket, and I want to throw myself at it, and I want to build something again. And it happened. I don't know, we'll check in at 50.

• 22:54Speaker 02

  I'm not saying you're wrong at all. I'm more just fascinated about the process.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's interesting.

• 22:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:58Dax Shepard?

  Back to you.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  It is about you, because this is on your horizon as well. You have these decisions.

• 23:04Speaker 02

  Well, I'm just fascinated. I mean, it starts and stops, and people normally think they need agreement. I'm more fascinated about what I don't know yet.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:10Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh. Okay, so you have this meteoric rise in tennis. You're a lot bigger, forgive me, neither of us know much about tennis. I just own that right now. And I'm also gonna ask you to go through some things that you would imagine everyone knows.

• 23:22Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 23:23Dax Shepard?

  But I don't know that our audience knows. You're a lot bigger than the tennis players I've met. You're kind of abnormally big?

• 23:28Speaker 02

  Not in tennis anymore. I present more as like a fullback than a skinnier person.

• 23:32Dax Shepard?

  But you're like 6'2".

• 23:33Speaker 02

  I always say I'm like a tennis player that was born in Nebraska.

• 23:38Speaker 02

  They're big now, though. Like Rafa's an animal. They're all huge now. That's the thing that's changed.

• 23:42Dax Shepard?

  The conditioning has changed.

• 23:43Speaker 02

  Well, we used to have a skill and now you can't have that skill without being insanely athletic. So now you're seeing like Alcaraz and his body's like.

• 23:51Dax Shepard?

  UFC fighter?

• 23:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, like he explodes and Sinner's six foot five and he's like a skier. The athleticism of tennis has completely changed in the last 25 years.

• 24:00Dax Shepard?

  All sports, F1 drivers are now like peak fucking athletes. They weren't. They drove a car. The only place I'm seeing, because I watch all these sports doc series, because I do love them even if I don't like the sport. I don't like golf. You get away with just having a normal dad bod.

• 24:13Speaker 02

  No, I mean, you look at like a McElroy. These guys are like human rubber bands. He used to kind of be, what was the, what did Habib Gilmour? Plaid pants and a huge ass?

• 24:23Speaker 02

  It's younger and younger and these guys are swinging violently. It's changed a little bit. Tiger changed a lot of it.

• 24:28Dax Shepard?

  Okay, yeah.

• 24:28Speaker 02

  Because he looked and presented like an athlete, so therefore every kid that.

• 24:31Dax Shepard?

  Wanted to be him.

• 24:32Speaker 02

  Now looks and presents like an athlete. That's the thing with sports, man. Anybody who comes in here and says their generation walked uphill both ways is completely self-indulgent and full of shit.

• 24:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Okay, so but with your height, that has to be a part of your serve, right? Because the crazy part about your game was you had this insane serve.

• 24:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:48Dax Shepard?

  I like this detail of it. You had numerous different coaches over the years and I do want to talk about that. I want to know how one, you got to break up with someone and hire someone and that's got to be a very stressful part of the experience. But as you hired coaches, your whole game was on the table except for the serve. The serve was to not be talked about. Is that right?

• 25:07Speaker 02

  It was to not be talked about.

• 25:08Dax Shepard?

  Were you superstitious about the serve?

• 25:10Speaker 02

  No, I just knew it backwards. I knew the cadence when it started. I knew this little three count that I had. I knew the feelings of it. I knew more than they did. I don't say that lightly because we'll get to the coaches and I was obviously always in pursuit of something new, something different, something additive. And also, don't talk about my serve.

• 25:29Dax Shepard?

  Ever. Yes. Is the origin of it true that you got really frustrated at like 16 and you served in a weird way out of anger and it worked? Is that true?

• 25:36Speaker 02

  That's true. I was playing, my friend Marty Fish, who ended up being a really good player. He was sixth in the world. Basically, all the kids who didn't get picked by the federation, right? So the people not funded by US tennis. Anymore, kind of the throwaways. We played at Crystal Palms apartment complex in Florida and there were like six of us and out of that group, a couple of us made top five, top six in the world. But I was playing against Marty, who's really, really good and at that point better and just got pissed off and I have like this little half motion of boarded tears, but it's not conventional. Hit one irresponsibly out of anger and it went in.

• 26:05Dax Shepard?

  Which by the way is the thing they tell you to never do in anything, right? Don't try to kill it. Don't try to crush it. And you did. You're like, I'm gonna fucking murder this ball because I hate it.

• 26:12Speaker 02

  And that was it. Had I been doing well with Marty that day, I wouldn't be here having this conversation.

• 26:18Dax Shepard?

  Crazy. And how do you, like, when you recognize it clicked, do you then think, okay, how do I commit this whole thing to muscle memory? Like, I gotta replicate. You just over and over again, you do it?

• 26:28Speaker 02

  Just started doing it.

• 26:29Dax Shepard?

  And you didn't have to overthink it?

• 26:30Speaker 02

  It was immediately, well, a lot of the muscles build it. Like your shoulder still goes over. It's just your feet was different, but there was no time. And there were some other things that needed to be adjusted, but yeah, I mean, you literally figured it out and then the year before you're 40 or 50 in the world in juniors, which sounds good, but that means you're going to college. And then four months later was.

• 26:46Dax Shepard?

  You're number one in Florida.

• 26:47Speaker 02

  One signed a rebuck deal over pro.

• 26:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So when you went to bed that night after discovering the serve, did you think it's replicatable? That wasn't a one off?

• 26:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, it was not the way a tennis player should look. It was violent and so the conversation became it'll work, but for how long?

• 27:04Dax Shepard?

  He's gonna destroy his shoulder.

• 27:05Speaker 02

  Destroy it. It's like a 12 year old throwing a curve ball. I knew I had it.

• 27:09Dax Shepard?

  But you were wondering for how long?

• 27:10Speaker 02

  I was like, let's just rip it though.

• 27:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Good for you.

• 27:14Speaker 01

  Good. You had to.

• 27:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, kinda.

• 27:15Dax Shepard?

  I just feel like if I was you and I had been pursuing this thing nine hours a day for the last nine years, I feel like I would have gone to bed that night and been like, oh wow, we're about to enter a whole new zone.

• 27:25Speaker 02

  It was weird too, because going into sophomore year of high school, I was five two, 110 pounds.

• 27:29Dax Shepard?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 27:29Speaker 02

  I grew seven inches that year and then six months after that I discovered the serve. So all of a sudden I go from like this tiny little guy who just annoyed people forever. You know, that was like my style to having this thing. You go from like Ichiro to Bonds. Or Aaron Judge quickly, right?

• 27:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. How exciting. Were you cool in school? What was the high school experience like?

• 27:48Speaker 02

  The better I got at tennis, I became cooler. Everyone had a local paper.

• 27:51Dax Shepard?

  Oh, so people started learning?

• 27:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. So then I started, but no, not really.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  Not even local celebrity. You were becoming a.

• 27:56Speaker 02

  It was weird because what we talked about earlier with the separation with church and state with school versus this other thing, it changed. You sign a contract, people know what you sign for.

• 28:04Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 28:04Speaker 02

  You know, I remember the first time I played, there was a tournament in Miami, 1000, which is like just less than a grand slam. Win my first match. So I'm 17, beat a guy top 40, which was like unheard of. And then I'm second round. Andre Agassi, who was number one in the world at the time, my idol. Seventeen thousand people, obviously lost, but then went to school the next day.

• 28:24Dax Shepard?

  After playing Agassi.

• 28:25Speaker 02

  In high school. So that like weird trade off was like.

• 28:27Dax Shepard?

  Also, how much money were you winning back then?

• 28:30Speaker 02

  That deal I signed, it was incentive based, but the base was four hundred thousand a year.

• 28:36Dax Shepard?

  Okay, okay.

• 28:36Speaker 02

  Immediately.

• 28:37Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh, in high school?

• 28:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then it was like all bonus based, right?

• 28:41Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  So your prize money equals an incentivized contract along the way as well.

• 28:46Dax Shepard?

  With your endorsement deals?

• 28:47Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 28:47Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so how does a seventeen year old comprehend like, we're gonna make a million bucks this year? Is that part super exciting or were your parents somehow trying to shelter you from that reality?

• 28:59Speaker 02

  Probably both. I knew enough.

• 29:01Dax Shepard?

  Were you allowed to go buy a stupid car in high school or anything?

• 29:03Speaker 02

  No, I bought a fucking sound system like.

• 29:06Dax Shepard?

  What a douchebag.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  No, that's a high school thing to buy.

• 29:08Dax Shepard?

  You can't regret these things. That's exactly what you're supposed to do.

• 29:11Speaker 02

  Thirty-two hundred bucks for losing to my first pro event.

• 29:13Dax Shepard?

  Bought you a sound system.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  It was loud.

• 29:17Speaker 02

  Was loud going in the parking lot.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  Oh my goodness.

• 29:20Speaker 02

  Just such a dick.

• 29:21Dax Shepard?

  You have to love that about your parents.

• 29:23Speaker 01

  I'm impressed you could keep your eye on the tennis prize. I bet the girls were just.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, I bet the girls were all aflutter.

• 29:29Speaker 01

  All aflutter.

• 29:30Speaker 02

  They were aflutter.

• 29:31Speaker 01

  Of course they were. Not only, you're a.

• 29:34Speaker 02

  A stud.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  You're a stud and you're famous and you have a towel.

• 29:38Dax Shepard?

  You had the best sound system in the high school parking lot.

• 29:41Speaker 02

  I think you're underselling the sound system.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  You're right.

• 29:45Dax Shepard?

  I know that turns.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  Let's add that back in.

• 29:46Dax Shepard?

  What was this sound system in? What kind of vehicle?

• 29:49Speaker 02

  It was an old Chevy Blazer.

• 29:51Dax Shepard?

  Great, you could put a lot of shit in the back. Twelve inch kicker box?

• 29:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, the speakers couldn't take it, obviously. So it was just broken. Cloth seat, it smelled like a hockey locker and it was terrible.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  It was not the one.

• 30:02Dax Shepard?

  Wow. So yeah, rich in high school. That's such a bizarre.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, rich. I didn't even say that.

• 30:07Speaker 02

  It's not like I had it. I knew it was there at some point, but it wasn't as if like I went to a bank account and could go.

• 30:14Dax Shepard?

  That's all I do.

• 30:14Speaker 02

  Spend a hundred thousand dollars. I didn't have access to it. It's not the same.

• 30:18Dax Shepard?

  That's what I'm asking.

• 30:18Speaker 02

  It's like liquidity versus net worth. You can't buy a coffee with net worth.

• 30:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So the parents were keeping. You in check.

• 30:25Speaker 02

  You asked about my dad. He was very strict on the financial part of it.

• 30:29Dax Shepard?

  Could be a short ride. You gotta save.

• 30:31Speaker 02

  Not even a short ride, just why wouldn't you be responsible? He was actually probably doing that because he thought it would be a long ride.

• 30:37Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 30:38Speaker 02

  I think it was probably the opposite. So he was very overbearing with that stuff. Like he wore my first agent out to the point where like I would have other coaches and it was like, well, your dad called me. I go, don't answer.

• 30:47Dax Shepard?

  Well, your agent who you loved to death, what was his name?

• 30:50Speaker 02

  Ken Myerson.

• 30:51Dax Shepard?

  He ran interception for you a bit. He took a little bit of the stress of the father-son relationship out of the equation.

• 30:58Speaker 02

  Completely.

• 30:59Dax Shepard?

  That's kind of telling because he had too much to say too often.

• 31:02Speaker 02

  My dad?

• 31:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 31:03Speaker 02

  Just has a control issue.

• 31:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, control.

• 31:06Speaker 02

  I don't want this to become this weird representation. My parents got me. They lived in a tree. He did every single thing in his ability. All the stories we're telling was because he didn't leave an hour of work on the table. He never asked me to do one thing that he hadn't been willing to do in his life, which I think gives it an element of credibility. But definitely wanted his voice in the room.

• 31:25Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 31:26Speaker 02

  Not in front of the TV, didn't want credit, didn't want to be recognized, didn't want anyone outside of this circle of four or five people. These four or five people were going to know that he existed.

• 31:36Dax Shepard?

  All day.

• 31:36Speaker 02

  And no one else would.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  And that you were his, is that a piece of it?

• 31:40Speaker 02

  I think just overly protective, maybe like a fear-based type control thing.

• 31:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:45Speaker 02

  And then I think it's weird. You get to certain levels and we talk about high school and then you play the US Open and then you're in night matches and then you win it. And then you do all these things and I think it was hard for him once I was a complete adult.

• 31:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:57Speaker 02

  Right? Like he would tell me to clean my room. I'm like, dad, you came to stay at my house.

• 32:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he came to see you in Austin and he was all wrung up about it being a mess.

• 32:04Speaker 02

  We were just pissing on fire hydrants. He's like, your room's a mess. I'm like, I'm number one in the world.

• 32:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:09Speaker 02

  I don't care. I don't miss practice. Maybe misguided at times, but I don't think ever for the wrong intention.

• 32:14Dax Shepard?

  Right. I can feel the hesitation. You would never want to say anything disparaging, but it's like, I love my wife. She's flawed as fuck. We have a great relationship. It has many challenges.

• 32:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:24Dax Shepard?

  It's totally fine if things are also complicated.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 32:28Dax Shepard?

  It doesn't make her a bad person that she leaves the fucking cupboards open nonstop. She's still a great person. That she can't put a- Fucking cap on a jar.

• 32:35Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh.

• 32:36Dax Shepard?

  I grab my pills, they all fucking blow up. I'm like, none of these caps are on.

• 32:39Speaker 02

  Toothpaste.

• 32:40Dax Shepard?

  It's so simple. It's right there.

• 32:41Speaker 02

  I don't want crusty ass toothpaste after you like, can I borrow some? No, you can't because then that's a goner.

• 32:46Dax Shepard?

  Yes, how about this? You can borrow anything, but you have to put it back.

• 32:49Speaker 02

  Every time you use my toothpaste, I end up in the car driving somewhere.

• 32:54Dax Shepard?

  And then I'm made fun of because I order like 15 fucking toothpastes from Amazon. She's like, we don't need them, man. We do.

• 32:59Speaker 02

  See, she's good now because she'll hear me bitch about it and then she's going to be furious because she actually buys like the 20.

• 33:05Dax Shepard?

  There's the backup everything, so I'm telling stories.

• 33:10Speaker 02

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 33:17Dax Shepard?

  This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. We've talked before about Rob building our website on Squarespace and I bring it up again because it's a perfect example of what they do well. Rob had all the pieces, the content, the vision, the ideas, but he needed something to actually take all that and make it public facing. And Squarespace was that bridge. Maybe you're in the same spot. You've been developing something, a business, a skill set, a body of work, and it's been private. It's been yours, but at some point you're ready to put it out there and that transition from private to public can feel like a huge leap. Squarespace makes it feel like a step. Beautiful templates, built in SEO, email campaigns, scheduling, analytics, everything you need to go from,

• 33:59Dax Shepard?

  I've been working on this to here it is, come find me. All in one place, no code, no stitching together a bunch of different tools. So if you've been sitting on something and waiting for the right moment, this might be it. Head to Squarespace.com slash DAX for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code DAX to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. We get support from Scottsdale, Arizona. Monica, with summer ending or heading into fall, I've been researching a nice quick getaway location and I keep coming back to Scottsdale, Arizona.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  Ooh, Scott feels good. What's drawing you to it?

• 34:36Dax Shepard?

  Well, first of all, I have this wonderful memory of going there as a kid when I would go see my stepdad when he was working out there. The weather is perfect in fall. Warm, sunny, no humidity. humidity and you can really do whatever you want with your time there. I want to do a sunrise hike through the Sonoran Desert, be surrounded by Sowaro and then at the same afternoon, just completely melt into a spa treatment at one of their luxury resorts.

• 35:00Speaker 01

  Oh, that sounds amazing. I want to do that. Also, I was there visiting my brother once and I loved Old Town Scottsdale. It's so walkable. They have galleries and cute little restaurants and shops. The food scene alone is worth the trip.

• 35:14Dax Shepard?

  What I keep reading is that it's luxurious, but not stuffy. There's no pressure to do it a certain way. You can explore public art, check out the architecture, go off-roading in the desert, or just sit and watch a sunset.

• 35:26Speaker 01

  It really is the perfect fall reset.

• 35:28Dax Shepard?

  Learn more about all Scottsdale has to offer at unwindinscottsdale.com. We are supported by Walden University. You know that feeling when you've been thinking about making a move, going after the degree, the promotion, the thing you keep telling yourself you'll get to someday? Walden University is built for that moment. For over 50 years, Walden has helped working professionals get the W, the knowledge, the skills, and the confidence to create real change in their careers and communities. Their programs are designed around your life, not the other way around. With Tempo Learning, available in select programs, there are no rigid schedules or set weekly deadlines. You move at your own pace. And Walden's faculty aren't just academics.

• 36:13Dax Shepard?

  They're practitioners who bring real-world experience into everything they teach. From your first class to career coaching and beyond, Walden is your partner the whole way. Take the first step and learn at a pace that works for you. Visit waldenu.edu. Walden University. Set a course for change. Certified to operate by CHEV. This episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. Look, I have my dream job. I get to talk to folks I admire like crazy and ask them virtually any question that I want to. I can't imagine a better way to spend my time. But even dream jobs have some not-so-dreamy parts, the stuff that gets in the way.

• 36:55Dax Shepard?

  Of the actual work. Now that's where Service Now's AI specialists come in. They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work. They actually do it, start to finish, cases closed, requests handled, no extra work for you. So you and your team can focus on what matters most, which for me is, are they obsessed with male bodies on the same level as I am?

• 37:17Speaker 01

  They never are.

• 37:18Dax Shepard?

  To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com.

• 37:30Dax Shepard?

  Well, one thing I just want to end on with your serve, which I find so incredible. So you had the record for the fastest serve in history at 155 miles an hour. It has been beaten, but it's still only at 156.

• 37:45Dax Shepard?

  That's so massive. The serve is described in many of the things I was reading as unreturnable.

• 37:50Speaker 02

  Well, to most, except for the Avengers that came on the way through career, but. I wasn't a natural tennis player. I was like a work guy, but I could throw it. That was it.

• 37:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 38:00Speaker 02

  Like I could make your life uncomfortable for a little bit.

• 38:02Dax Shepard?

  Okay. So you win the 2003 US Open. You are.

• 38:05Speaker 01

  I'm dying to go to the US Open. No one will invite me.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  Let's do it. Whenever.

• 38:09Dax Shepard?

  You just have to be a guest on his podcast and then.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  Oh, great. Invite me and then let's.

• 38:14Dax Shepard?

  You know, earn your way.

• 38:15Speaker 02

  You don't even, you don't even have to do that.

• 38:16Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  I want to go.

• 38:19Dax Shepard?

  I know why you want to go.

• 38:20Speaker 01

  I want to try that honey, honeydews. Yeah.

• 38:23Dax Shepard?

  That's a cocktail?

• 38:24Speaker 02

  They basically invented a signature cocktail like that everyone pretends like has been around for a hundred years.

• 38:29Dax Shepard?

  Like a mint juke.

• 38:30Speaker 02

  Put it in like eight years ago.

• 38:33Speaker 02

  Have you had a honeydews at the US Open? It's like, no, because they didn't fucking have them when I was playing. It's a made up thing.

• 38:38Speaker 01

  But it's a real.

• 38:39Speaker 02

  It's genius, though.

• 38:39Speaker 01

  I don't know. I've never had one.

• 38:41Dax Shepard?

  You gotta buy it to find out.

• 38:42Speaker 02

  No, a little chambray, lemonade, Grey Goose and Sprite.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I want that.

• 38:48Dax Shepard?

  I'll make you one and serve it on the fact check.

• 38:50Speaker 01

  The US Open.

• 38:51Speaker 02

  She wants to overpay for it.

• 38:54Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 38:54Dax Shepard?

  You can't imagine how well you know her. You literally know everything you needed over a month ago.

• 38:59Speaker 02

  It doesn't taste as good if you don't pay $28 for it.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  It doesn't. And if it doesn't have those little melon balls on there. Yeah, that's really cool.

• 39:07Speaker 02

  My favorite thing about that is they have the honeydew cups that have all the winners on them. It's like, oh my God, I know I paid $30, but I got a free cup. It's worth 75 cents. So I won.

• 39:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I want that. I want that. I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna do that.

• 39:18Dax Shepard?

  I saved thousands by getting this.

• 39:19Speaker 01

  But also, the US Open's gotten so cool. Everyone goes.

• 39:24Dax Shepard?

  It's definitely a social event.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  It's the Met Ball.

• 39:27Speaker 02

  It's the Met Ball of sports.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do really, really want to go. I need to learn a little bit more.

• 39:32Dax Shepard?

  I'm trying to decide if I should ruin your day.

• 39:34Speaker 01

  What?

• 39:35Dax Shepard?

  I got invited this year to go sit in the GM box.

• 39:40Speaker 02

  It's cool.

• 39:40Dax Shepard?

  But it was the Emmys. No, it was something else important.

• 39:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  You know what?

• 39:46Speaker 02

  It's worth seeing.

• 39:47Speaker 01

  I gotta do more social media stuff.

• 39:50Speaker 02

  You gotta amp it all up.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  I have a lot to work on.

• 39:52Speaker 02

  It's the internet now, for sure.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:54Dax Shepard?

  You win that 2003, you're 23?

• 39:58Speaker 02

  No, I turned 21 during the tournament.

• 40:00Dax Shepard?

  What are the emotions that follow it? There's obviously probably relief.

• 40:04Speaker 02

  I felt a lot more relief towards the end of my career when I won matches. I was so dumb. I was like, oh, I'm gonna be like the guy. And then this fucking guy Federer comes in. I used to get bribed with the US Open from my mom for a good report card. Like, I went when I was nine and she would just weirdly let me walk around all day by myself. I would sneak into the players' lounges, bored to tears, but I saw Jimmy Connors make a run when he was 40 to the semis and he had the crowd in his hand. It was like a live rock show.

• 40:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 40:30Speaker 02

  He would go like this and everyone would get up. I'm going, tennis can do this.

• 40:33Dax Shepard?

  Stand-up.

• 40:34Speaker 02

  Crazy. Yeah.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:36Speaker 02

  I was like, he's controlling the mood of grown people.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:40Dax Shepard?

  It is interesting to observe human power when you're little.

• 40:43Speaker 02

  Absurd. I remember flying over it and at that point, Mayor Dinkins then changed the flight pattern so that you didn't get the noise over the stadium. But I remember flying right over the middle of the stadium when I was nine. It was 1 a.m. or something irresponsible and it was packed. It was Connors versus Patrick McAdoo. And I remember being like, I cannot believe how late it is in what we just flew over.

• 41:04Dax Shepard?

  They're still playing.

• 41:05Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. I was blown away. So then 12 years later, you have that moment where it's like, that's it. No matter what happens, and not much happened. But no matter what happens from there, that's that.

• 41:15Dax Shepard?

  You did that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 41:17Speaker 02

  People can't take away what you did.

• 41:18Dax Shepard?

  I think you have to come to that. I don't think that's human nature. I did it. It can't be taken from me. Because I have had many successes and then after failures, I really can't access the notion that I had done the other thing.

• 41:32Speaker 02

  Is that the difference between sports and entertainment?

• 41:34Dax Shepard?

  Maybe. Yeah, like a trophy is so definitive, I guess. It's number one, you won it.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  It's also each match is individual, where I feel like entertainment's more cumulative.

• 41:44Speaker 02

  The difference is, I'm guessing, I don't want to tell you about your business, but I'll tell you about like ours. You win the US Open, you know what that is. You can finish a project and other people are going to define what that is, and you're not going to know for a year.

• 41:55Dax Shepard?

  Or even the quantifiable aspect, it might make 180, and you're like, wow, that's the big comedy. And then another movie comes around, makes 225 in a month, and that's like, oh, we forgot that that other movie made 180.

• 42:05Speaker 02

  Someone wins the US Open last week or wins at 20. It's kind of like the same thing. I had a hard time less to do with like that US Open win, because that was just fun, good time, you're like hosting SNL.

• 42:16Dax Shepard?

  And you thought it was the beginning of something.

• 42:18Speaker 02

  You think it's going to happen a lot. I would lose a Wimbledon final after that.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:21Speaker 02

  And it was like, you failure. And now I can go, okay, there's 128 men and women, so 256, each vying for this thing. You have a two-week race. You come in second with like earth. Some jackass can define that as a failure. I bought into it for a very, very long time.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:37Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 42:38Speaker 02

  Right? And so now it's like, okay, the way people perceive me would be different had I won two more points at Wimbledon, one of seven times. But it doesn't really change the day-to-day, like what a Tuesday would look like at all, I don't think.

• 42:48Speaker 01

  I guess that's what you're saying is, that's healthy, what you're saying, and some people never get there.

• 42:53Dax Shepard?

  It took a lot of work for me. It's an ongoing thing to work through the experience of having mass relevance and then have fading relevance, and then maybe get another spike of mass relevance. I mean, I was struggling with it so much that I asked Sean To go out to breakfast with me and I'm like, how did you navigate these periods where just like, when you win the Olympics?

• 43:13Speaker 02

  The Olympics is a whole nother thing because like you're four years, top of the mountain, then like a year later, it's like, okay, I have three years. I'm curious about that conversation.

• 43:20Dax Shepard?

  That's brutal.

• 43:21Speaker 02

  Cause I've heard Phelps talk about that. He goes, I'd win the Olympics, I would get all these medals and then I would be depressed.

• 43:25Dax Shepard?

  You're on every talk show.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  It's the opposite of what you would think, right?

• 43:28Speaker 01

  And the rest of the world is,

• 43:30Speaker 02

  Plays along.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  Plays along because when someone's number one for too long, they want to see that upended.

• 43:36Speaker 02

  Well, there's also a reason why, you can't say everyone, but the narrative you hear most with musicians, with actors, entertainers, sports is when you're going after something, they always say, that was the time.

• 43:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 43:48Speaker 02

  That was the best time of our career, looking back.

• 43:49Dax Shepard?

  Building.

• 43:50Speaker 02

  Pursuing, having those things where there's no, I think expectation is the hardest thing in sports. People talk about doing it, I think keeping it to your point is like another level and something that I couldn't do. It's another piece where you have to almost be like a complete psychopath.

• 44:03Dax Shepard?

  You always gotta reset?

• 44:04Speaker 02

  Daily. It's not even just a big reset. It's like, I have to wake up. You know, Novak has been doing this for 20 years where Jokovic is like, I haven't had a piece of chocolate in 20 years. I have lemon water when I wake up. That's hard to do for a day.

• 44:14Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  Cleanse for five days and we want to throw a parade.

• 44:17Speaker 01

  You need to be a Buddhist to get through it, but I don't think you can be a Buddhist in order to get it. That's like, it's this weird catch 22.

• 44:25Dax Shepard?

  It is. You have to keep it right sized, but in order to be the best, it can't be right sized.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would say you can have it all, just not at the same time, right?

• 44:34Dax Shepard?

  Right, right, right.

• 44:35Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 44:35Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so the email I got from your publicist and then in this great GQ article I read with you, it was really, really good.

• 44:42Speaker 01

  Great article.

• 44:42Dax Shepard?

  Both people are like, doesn't really want to talk about retiring. It was present in the article and it was present in this, and that's just a curiosity of mine. What part of it don't you like talking about? Or is there any part you don't like talking about?

• 44:54Speaker 02

  Well, imagine you have to announce your retirement from the five things that you do individually.

• 44:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 44:59Speaker 02

  Makes no sense.

• 45:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 45:01Speaker 02

  I retired from tennis, that doesn't mean I retired from life. There's a million other things.

• 45:04Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes.

• 45:04Speaker 02

  Right? So it's like, you retired at 30. It's like, no, I started other shit.

• 45:07Dax Shepard?

  Right, right.

• 45:08Speaker 02

  It's a weird thing where I get asked about a lot and it's like, oh, are you okay?

• 45:12Dax Shepard?

  Here was my primary guess.

• 45:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:15Dax Shepard?

  Was, I would hate it because I hate being pitied. There's nothing I would hate more than like knowing someone pities me or feels bad. For me.

• 45:25Speaker 02

  No, I don't think that was it. I think it was, I was 30 when I retired.

• 45:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  From tennis.

• 45:31Speaker 02

  And so it's hard to define people kind of almost digesting as like life ending at 30. That doesn't make any sense to me. Like, I'm very sad. This is my thing. This is the thing I'm in love with. This is my first girlfriend. This is my first love. This is the first thing ever. And I have a weird story. I woke up one morning and I decided that that was that.

• 45:50Dax Shepard?

  It was your birthday?

• 45:50Speaker 02

  It was my birthday. I retired that afternoon. I made a run at the US Open. I was in the middle of the US Open. I'd played the night match the night before and then I just did it. So I played like another week and that was that. And I would never came back.

• 45:59Dax Shepard?

  Right. So I admire it deeply. The earlier conversation we just had, which I was saying, know, the challenge of leaving safety and leaving what you know is actually the calling. And so I actually admire greatly that you were 30 and you were confident enough to go like, I'm not enjoying this the way I'd like to enjoy it. I'd be happier not doing this ultimately.

• 46:23Speaker 02

  It might've been a little more selfish than that. I'm pretty good at reality. I think the athletes were trained to like live in denial. We have numbers, like a very clear data set of your one, your two, your four, your six, your eight. I was able to do that math and then I was 12 or 15 or whatever it was. So it was going the wrong way. And then frankly, it was these monsters that came, these Novaks and Raffas and Rogers and my shoulder was not great. If I didn't have the carrot that I was chasing, that was a Grand Slam title.

• 46:49Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 46:50Speaker 02

  I had a hard time reconciling because that was the goal the entire time.

• 46:54Dax Shepard?

  Yes. So that's interesting.

• 46:55Speaker 02

  When I didn't believe in that goal, I wish that I could have had in that moment more enjoyment.

• 47:01Dax Shepard?

  Of just being on the tour.

• 47:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it didn't work that way. It was pass fail. It was like misery. I was trying to out train everyone. You make up for what I lacked in ability. I often had these conversations with Brooke, my wife. I was like, I was jealous of some of the guys that were 20 or 25 in the world. That you would see a half hour after a loss and they were like happy.

• 47:20Dax Shepard?

  Going out with their buddies.

• 47:21Speaker 02

  It's like, yeah, it wasn't my day. I didn't know if it was great that it didn't have that or great that I did. I didn't know. And so I struggled with that the last couple of years.

• 47:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, that makes sense. We were talking earlier about the difference between entertainment. Entertainment is subjective. Yes, the numbers.

• 47:35Dax Shepard?

  The best shows aren't the biggest shows.

• 47:36Speaker 01

  Correct. The best shows that are really speaking to major themes, those are not seen by everyone. It's all very subjective. What we do, even though we're all in the podcast space, is very different from what Rogan's doing, from what Alex is doing. We can take pride in what we're doing. Sport is winning and losing.

• 47:56Dax Shepard?

  It's like the only metric.

• 47:57Speaker 01

  I mean, it doesn't have to be. It could be this. It could be 10th in the world or 11th, but if you're a winner, as you are.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  Go ahead.

• 48:04Speaker 01

  And as am I.

• 48:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:07Speaker 01

  It's winning or nothing. I was a two-time state champ.

• 48:10Dax Shepard?

  It's not a big deal, but it's a big deal.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  Everyone's heard it. They're so sick of it. We can't get into it anymore.

• 48:15Dax Shepard?

  You're the only one that could probably get through it at this point.

• 48:17Speaker 02

  Fucking cold, Ash. Go on.

• 48:18Speaker 01

  But I do know that second is not an option when you're in it. And so if it's just like, yeah, we're fifth or sixth for this long, I could see being like, I'm done now.

• 48:29Dax Shepard?

  There's also even a hiccup within there, which is there's like all this great science behind the curse of silver. So bronze people actually enjoy the Olympics.

• 48:36Speaker 02

  They go out on a winning note.

• 48:37Dax Shepard?

  Now you got on the podium. Silver's like a death sentence. It's a rough one. Doesn't make any sense.

• 48:42Speaker 02

  I watched my friend Marty from the serving story earlier. We were on the same Olympic team. I was seeded two. I lost early. He made it to the finals, played another guy. Marty, I don't know what he was ranked at the time. He was probably like 30. It wasn't as if he was favored to get there.

• 48:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:58Speaker 02

  Plays another guy around that ranking and loses. I look back at the Olympics, I'm like, yeah, it was pretty fun. We were in the Olympic village and he's like, I fucking hate, I can't, it's hard.

• 49:05Dax Shepard?

  Doesn't want to think about it. Yeah.

• 49:06Speaker 02

  So your point, that second place silver thing is, I think it's real.

• 49:09Dax Shepard?

  The brain is so fucking feeble.

• 49:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you can be pragmatic. Like you can talk through it and understand basic math and you're like, that's better.

• 49:17Speaker 01

  Doesn't matter.

• 49:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but it hurts more. It's so bizarre.

• 49:19Speaker 02

  Not when you get into those mental gymnastics.

• 49:21Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so you are one of only two tennis players to ever host SNL. That's pretty incredible.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:27Dax Shepard?

  What was that experience like?

• 49:28Speaker 02

  It was great. I think Lorne Michaels just wanted me to hit with his son or his, that was pretty much it.

• 49:34Dax Shepard?

  That would be enough for me.

• 49:34Speaker 02

  I think that was the entire thing. It was a weird moment in time where. Tennis crosses over. I don't know why that happened. I like uncomfortable things. I don't get freaked out by that thing. I'm like, oh, if you suck, it's kind of funny. No one expects anything from you. Their job is to not make you look terrible.

• 49:51Dax Shepard?

  Right, right, right.

• 49:52Speaker 02

  And you have the most talented people on earth around you to do that.

• 49:54Dax Shepard?

  Were you able to be present and have fun?

• 49:56Speaker 02

  Our world tour finals where I was one going into it, there were three guys in that tournament of the top eight. So getting number one's great. Being year end number one is more prestigious. So Federer was in second, Ferrero, who now is the coach of Alcaraz, was one of the guys also. So.

• 50:11Dax Shepard?

  Was that the guy you had beaten in the US Open?

• 50:12Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly. So I was still training for that the next week. So I was in New York. I would train in the mornings till two and then I would go do all the rehearsals and everything until one or two in the morning and then landed and then had to play that. I enjoyed it. I wish it would have been two weeks later when my season was done.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:26Speaker 02

  Because all I wanted to do was sit in that room and listen to them read the shitty bits, the good bits. I'm obsessed with comedians.

• 50:33Dax Shepard?

  You want to go to the after party in the state of the end?

• 50:35Speaker 02

  I didn't. I was gone.

• 50:36Speaker 01

  That sucks.

• 50:36Speaker 02

  I had to play on Tuesday. That was Saturday, obviously, right there in the name. And then I had to leave. So I got into Houston at like 3 a.m. that morning. It was incredibly fun.

• 50:45Dax Shepard?

  Poorly timed.

• 50:46Speaker 02

  It was amazing.

• 50:47Dax Shepard?

  Who was the musical guest?

• 50:48Speaker 02

  Dave Matthews.

• 50:49Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 50:49Dax Shepard?

  Who's your favorite?

• 50:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, and so he was, he was there. It was during his solo album.

• 50:53Dax Shepard?

  Did you become bros with him over the years?

• 50:54Speaker 02

  We had known each other before that. My wife, if I say I'm a Dave fan, she's like, you're not a Dave fan. I'm a Dave fan. She will fight someone over. She's like, you'll see in 20 to 30 years, people will fully understand. I'm like, all right. It's like, I don't know. You look back and I'm sure you guys had the same thing. It was a crazy moment in time where crazy, fun, weird shit was happening all the time.

• 51:13Dax Shepard?

  Oh, God, yeah.

• 51:14Speaker 02

  Right? Like, and then it calms down. And it was weird. I don't have the thing where I missed it when it wasn't happening.

• 51:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 51:19Speaker 02

  I appreciated it fully. I loved it. It was great. I was always happy to have the opportunities. I liked doing stuff that wasn't normal. So you talk about comfort zone. Being in that comfort zone is the worst.

• 51:28Dax Shepard?

  You feel anxious.

• 51:29Speaker 02

  Kind of, yeah, a little bit. It was cool. It's like the best cast ever.

• 51:32Dax Shepard?

  One other neat thing I think that I wrote about today that happened in your career was you had gone, I don't know what number it was, going to the finals at Wimbledon against Federer. Who, by the way, the fact that you had to face him three times in the final. There's gonna be a great movie at some point about that whole thing. It's just so incredible that you faced him three times there.

• 51:51Speaker 02

  You get to the top level and it's about matchups. So it just happens that this guy from Switzerland. Well, we talk about serve. Pace doesn't bother him. He sees the ball earlier. And he's able to accept it. It's like I say the greats, the racket is like an extension of their hand and the rest of us are grabbing the racket and then using it. It's very different.

• 52:10Dax Shepard?

  And he's just reacting.

• 52:11Speaker 02

  I'm assuming it's the same as like if you're on the other side of a great actor and you're thinking about stuff and delivering stuff and they're just doing stuff.

• 52:17Speaker 01

  You're saying the rest of us as if you are not one?

• 52:21Speaker 02

  No, I'm not saying the rest of us.

• 52:22Dax Shepard?

  There's a tiny margin between he and.

• 52:23Speaker 02

  I know, I know I could go down the street and like mop up.

• 52:27Speaker 01

  The park?

• 52:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, like I'm, I don't want to brag. I am one of the best players in my club. So I understand that, but as much of a difference is between me and someone who's 300, there's that much of a difference between the greats.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  Who are the top five?

• 52:42Speaker 02

  Well, you have to separate. Best three female players ever in my mind are, I have to make four. Chrissy Eber, Martina, Steffi and Serena. And I'm going to go back. I'm going to realize I didn't say someone and it's going to kill me.

• 52:51Speaker 01

  No, don't worry. Cause I made you do this very fast.

• 52:54Speaker 02

  Novak, Roger, Rafa. They ruined sports for everyone else because they were so good. Alcaraz has six slams already. That's like as many as icons of our sport and like, will he get to 24?

• 53:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. How many did Agassi get?

• 53:05Speaker 02

  Eight. So like Makander had seven, Alcaraz has six at 21 or 22 years old. He's that great, but also the question is now, can he win 20?

• 53:14Dax Shepard?

  Right, right, right.

• 53:15Speaker 02

  It's like the record before those guys was 14. The last Wimbledon final I played against Roger, that was when he broke the previous record was in that match. So Pete Sampras, who you don't see is a recluse, doesn't come to tournaments. Pete showed up for that match.

• 53:28Dax Shepard?

  Cause that was his record.

• 53:29Speaker 02

  That was his record. So he showed up. So we're playing in front of him. I had known Pete because I played on tour with him. It's 15 and I think the next highest active player at that point, so that would have been 09, it probably would have been Rafa at like three or four. And it's like, there's no one going to be even close.

• 53:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:42Speaker 02

  And then the two of them didn't even finish. Then another guy comes and does it. It's just absurd. And then you throw Serena, what she did and it's all together. And it's just like, we're spoiled by greatness. Then you tend to like, look at someone who won. Four, or the commentators are disparaging someone who's 20 in the world during a live broadcast. I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about?

• 54:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:03Speaker 02

  Tell a better story.

• 54:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:05Dax Shepard?

  Yes. But that's the match, actually, that I'm referencing because something really cool happened, which is he wins, he sets this new record, the Brits go crazy, they're chanting fetter, fetter, fetter. And then there's a beat, and then they start chanting your name, which is like unconventional, which is radical. Like, I think everyone's like, fuck me, he played an incredible match. We respect this guy so much, even in second place. You also, in your interview after it made almost the entire focus on Pete Sampras for being there. The way people regarded your sportsmanship was so admirable. And then you got home to New York and you were in a Apple Store, like, three days later, and people were coming up

• 54:47Dax Shepard?

  to you and being like, oh, it was a tough match. And you realize in that moment, it had really permeated. It had kind of transcended a bit.

• 54:54Speaker 02

  It changed everything. And I don't know that that happens if I win.

• 54:57Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 54:58Speaker 02

  I think it gets viewed very differently than if you kind of tragically lose. I was a kid who was hot-headed, threw stuff.

• 55:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yelled at people.

• 55:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. So you get judged. There's a hype mechanism that my natural ability probably doesn't support. After that match, maybe you feel a little more understood. And it's not conscious because you're reacting. All you're trying to do in a speech is try to get through without breaking down. We have the most psychopathic sport ever, where it's like the loser has to go up and address the crowd within 10 seconds of finishing.

• 55:25Dax Shepard?

  It'd be graceful.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  Like, imagine going to a Super Bowl trophy ceremony and having a losing team come up and give a soliloquy before.

• 55:30Speaker 01

  Why is that?

• 55:31Speaker 02

  It's absurd. From my experience with that match, you're shattered. This is like the thing, I don't know if I'm going to get back. That was a place I hadn't been in a couple of years. It wasn't as if the other slam finals that I played and lost, I still thought I would be back there.

• 55:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 55:44Speaker 02

  This one, I'm playing it actively during the match. I don't know that.

• 55:47Dax Shepard?

  And at Layer, people I don't think would naturally assume I had it, which is, it's not just about you. It feels like a very singular sport. It's just this person. But in fact, after that match, you're comforting your wife, who's very, very sad. You're comforting your coach who's crying?

• 56:04Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 56:04Dax Shepard?

  I underestimated that aspect. It's like, you're not just carrying your dream up there. You're carrying a lot of the people around you.

• 56:11Speaker 02

  Well, you're also setting the tone for this point forward. But you come back to the States. I'm walking down the street in New York City and the crew fixing the pothole and us not being appreciative of them saving us time the next day. Or, you know, no one sees it when it's fixed.

• 56:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:25Speaker 02

  Right? They're going, Andy, tough one, man. Like, I'd never experienced that in my entire life.

• 56:28Dax Shepard?

  I would imagine in that scenario, you can actually feel the love.

• 56:32Speaker 02

  Amazing. Never in my life had I felt that.

• 56:34Speaker 01

  Oh, that's nice.

• 56:35Speaker 02

  And then I pulled out of a couple tournaments. I wasn't ready to play. A month later, I showed up and we played a tour event in DC. Tuesday, you normally draw, I don't know, 7, 8,000 people and then you get to finals and it's full. First night, walk out and there's 16,000 people going nuts.

• 56:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 56:50Speaker 02

  Practices were different. It changed the entire thing forever, even to this day.

• 56:54Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 56:54Speaker 02

  Completely. You don't realize that without time, right?

• 56:57Dax Shepard?

  They forced you to maybe accept the thing I was saying earlier, which is like, am I worthy of love if I'm not a champion? Oh, well, I am. That's nice.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  It was something completely unexpected.

• 57:07Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so yeah, you're gone for 10 years. You didn't play really for 10 years after retirement.

• 57:11Speaker 02

  No, I would play like customer tennis where you get paid to go do this thing.

• 57:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  Have you played with Bill Gates?

• 57:18Speaker 02

  I have not. No.

• 57:19Dax Shepard?

  He's our rich friend, if you want us to connect.

• 57:21Speaker 02

  I haven't yet. But I didn't like play, play. If I went out, I stunk. I'm sure there's like an element of stand-up where you can know you weren't great.

• 57:28Dax Shepard?

  Right, right, right.

• 57:29Speaker 02

  But maybe they don't know you weren't great type thing. But I didn't play. I never played at home for fun. I played transactionally completely for 10 years.

• 57:35Dax Shepard?

  Got it. So what is the wake up where all of a sudden you get kind of back interested in it?

• 57:39Speaker 02

  I can't stop playing. No.

• 57:41Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you can't stop playing? Really?

• 57:43Speaker 01

  Is it the same thing? You woke up one day and you're like, I'm ready again?

• 57:45Speaker 02

  No, body starts breaking down at a certain point. I basically have this thing. It's like, okay, I probably have however many years to be athletic. But then you go out and hit and the feedback is like, it actually makes sense. It's listening again. And you kind of get addicted in a great way. That feeling of, oh, I'm relearning this thing. I know how it's supposed to feel. Sometimes it feels that way.

• 58:03Dax Shepard?

  Competency is euphoric.

• 58:05Speaker 02

  But there's no consequence.

• 58:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:07Speaker 02

  So I've never, ever in my life, this thing that I love, I've never lived it without consequence. And it's the best. Oh, man. I'm not nervous. I don't care. There's no pressure. I'm playing a bunch of dickheads. It's great.

• 58:19Dax Shepard?

  You're playing for the right reason, which is the sensation of being competent.

• 58:24Speaker 02

  You don't go home to anyone who cares about how you did that day, but it's amazing. Yeah, that's great.

• 58:28Dax Shepard?

  But then you start kind of tweeting prolifically about tennis. You're starting to get more in the national conversation about tennis as it is today. Ultimately, you start served your podcast. But what are the little steps before you start served?

• 58:42Speaker 02

  So I say this sensitively. I don't know that I would have gone back to kind of the front facing side of tennis had it not been for COVID.

• 58:49Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 58:50Speaker 02

  Where it's like they have nothing live to show on tennis channel. And I remember I looked at the emails and it was like, oh, we should be through this in six weeks.

• 58:57Dax Shepard?

  Six weeks to two years.

• 58:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, right? So basically it's setting precedent for working from home. Cause my whole thing was like, I don't want to sacrifice geography. I did 45 weeks a year. I'm never doing that again.

• 59:09Dax Shepard?

  Had you already moved to North Carolina?

• 59:10Speaker 02

  Yes. So I start going on there just basically reading the phone book because the events aren't being played. Top 10 best places to play, you know, after a mimosa, whatever it is. So I'm on just doing that. And then they start regular programming. You basically get to the point where it's like, okay, Earth pays attention to tennis for like eight weeks a year. The four slams, it's a lot of runway for people that are like kind of nerdy about it.

• 59:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 59:30Speaker 02

  Right. And that's not being addressed. There's no place to consume a story on a Tuesday. And so it's like, there's no cost to it. I'm preaching to you about your business, but you can start something up. You don't need permission. You don't need someone to put you on. You can go for an hour or you can go for three hours. There's no rules.

• 59:44Dax Shepard?

  You are self distributing and you do whatever you want to do.

• 59:46Speaker 02

  Basically, we just thought there was a lot of football field left and so we did that.

• 59:49Dax Shepard?

  And you've done a lot of fun stuff with the show. A, you've interviewed a lot of really famous and interesting. How do you and Agassi get on? You had him on.

• 59:57Speaker 02

  He's my idol. He's my hero.

• 59:59Dax Shepard?

  That incredible doc.

• 1:00:00Speaker 02

  Extremely flawed and he'll be the first to tell you why. Or how? Being around him when I was seventeen, it was a little freeing because fully aware of his flaws, but also capable of this greatness. And when you're fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, you're like, oh, the people that are that good, that successful for that long have to be perfect.

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  It was a great lesson. We're as close as we've ever been. And at some point in the last three or four years, when we've been around each other a bunch, it went from like, okay, I don't feel like a kid around him anymore. I don't feel like I'm the nine-year-old who is wearing all the unfortunate spandex with him.

• 1:00:35Dax Shepard?

  And day glow orange and green.

• 1:00:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, and so we text all the time. He's a friend.

• 1:00:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:41Speaker 02

  He came on our show. Him sitting down, I mean, you get to experience it every week, but digging into people's psyche, their brains, and that was kind of the biggest one because I knew where to go.

• 1:00:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, the reward of it, I think, is like, to have someone trust you is a very beautiful feeling.

• 1:00:56Speaker 02

  I know that I'm not as good as Andre, I'm not as good as Rafa, I'm not as good as all these people, but I understand the things they're describing.

• 1:01:02Dax Shepard?

  Absolutely.

• 1:01:02Speaker 02

  Very well.

• 1:01:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:04Speaker 02

  Patterns and processes and how we view things differently. We could be remembering the same match and think about it completely differently.

• 1:01:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's fascinating.

• 1:01:12Speaker 02

  Both maybe be experts in our own way, but I'm like, why do you think that? It's amazing. It's like the biggest high ever.

• 1:01:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:18Speaker 02

  It's basically, I found a way to get paid to ask these people the questions that I want to ask them that I would never ask them in private.

• 1:01:25Dax Shepard?

  Right, right, right, to nerd out.

• 1:01:26Speaker 02

  It's the best.

• 1:01:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I agree.

• 1:01:28Speaker 02

  You two have it figured out.

• 1:01:29Dax Shepard?

  Did you see the doc about Agassi?

• 1:01:31Speaker 01

  What's the untold one?

• 1:01:33Speaker 02

  That was with Marty Fish.

• 1:01:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you were in that, right?

• 1:01:35Speaker 02

  Yes, so that's the guy who I served against, that the silver medal.

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  We watched that together.

• 1:01:39Dax Shepard?

  Is that the one where it talks about him dealing with his wig?

• 1:01:43Speaker 02

  That's Agassi. I don't know the doc, but his book open

• 1:01:46Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:01:47Speaker 02

  is my favorite sports book of all time.

• 1:01:49Dax Shepard?

  I gotta read that. I saw a great doc and he was incredibly honest. And again, there was some really, really important match. And you know, he's dealing with this secret he has that he's going bald and he's wearing, he wears a hairpiece and he has the bandana.

• 1:01:59Speaker 02

  Famous for like this big mule, jean shorts, like rebel, renegade. Back when the culture in the eighties was like, you dress in all white?

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:06Speaker 02

  He was like, fuck this. On its head, long hair, jean shorts to play matches in, insane.

• 1:02:12Dax Shepard?

  He's like one of the first brands, you know, he was a brand and Something has gone wrong with the wig and the thing and he Oh no.

• 1:02:19Speaker 02

  He has it pinned on me. He can feel it like coming off.

• 1:02:23Dax Shepard?

  So all this poor guy is thinking about during that match is that. And again, you talk about what was happening in the match, like that dude, until he tells that story, he's like, that guy has no idea what happened in that match. He's having this fucking complete collapse of identity.

• 1:02:38Speaker 02

  The other guy, he's giving himself credit. He's like, I have completely taken this guy out of his game. I am.

• 1:02:42Dax Shepard?

  All this guy's thinking about is his hair.

• 1:02:44Speaker 02

  I am a strategic surgeon.

• 1:02:46Dax Shepard?

  I had so much empathy for him and it's, everything's just so fucking human and you project onto these people like, well, he's Agassi. He feels 20 feet tall. No, we are all terribly insecure. We all don't think we're worthy of love. This is, we all have this fucking racket. Pun intended.

• 1:03:02Speaker 02

  You have to read his book. Your thing about not feeling like you're deserving of love. He opens the book with like, I hate tennis. And he's like, because it caused so much stress on my family. He goes, now I'm good at it. I respect it. I've now gotten to the point where.

• 1:03:16Dax Shepard?

  He can have a relationship with it. That's.

• 1:03:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, but he's like.

• 1:03:18Dax Shepard?

  Semi healthy.

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  He goes, you can't tell me that I shouldn't hate it when you haven't lived through, the personal side wasn't worth the other side. You can't tell me how to gauge those things.

• 1:03:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. He had some wild times out there in Nevada or wherever the fuck he was living. Yeah.

• 1:03:31Speaker 02

  His dad was an Iranian boxer who worked the door at Caesar's.

• 1:03:35Dax Shepard?

  Okay, let's go.

• 1:03:38Dax Shepard?

  Okay. So I know that one of your goals and missions, and you just stated it, which is there's a billion viewers throughout the year. And there's 29 million people that play this sport. And yet it's relatively very small on the television front. So people watch these four events. They watch the French Open, the Australian Open, Wimbledon and the US Open. So in your opinion, how do they better the experience for the fan? How do they get people interested in these non grand slam tournaments?

• 1:04:09Speaker 02

  I can go off on this in a million different directions. You can't have an 11 and a half month season and expect people to be committed when it's not in front of them. And in order to have a conversation that's. Realistic and in the right actual spirit of change. The tour runs independently from the ITF, which is in charge of the Protocols for the Olympics, which is in charge of drug testing, which is separate from the Grand Slams, which is separate from the team events, which is separate from the everyone fighting for those couple of weeks. So everyone agrees everything needs to be shorter. Everyone agrees these changes and no one is willing to give. And so then you bring in money from other parts of the world. Everyone's reacting to like, is that going to set off?

• 1:04:49Dax Shepard?

  Is that what's happened? Are the Saudis entering this space as well?

• 1:04:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, they will. But it's just everyone lives in their own silo. The biggest properties, which are the slams, aren't in control or don't really care about how tennis is delivered throughout the year. So when ESPN comes in and buys only the slam rights, whoever's negotiating that deal doesn't sell them the Monday night game with two losing teams in December, that's a mistake. Right. So there have been a lot of mistakes where how ESPN doesn't cover the lead in events to the Grand Slams?

• 1:05:17Dax Shepard?

  So they need collective bargaining so that they can lift the lower.

• 1:05:20Speaker 02

  There's no independent representation for the players. So what you asked is a loaded question with a million layers.

• 1:05:26Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:05:27Speaker 02

  Like you just scraped an onion.

• 1:05:30Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 1:05:36Dax Shepard?

  We get support from our sponsor, Lilly. For adults with obesity or with excess weight and weight-related medical problems, it's time to find out about Foundo or for Gleepran. Foundo is a once daily prescription GLP-1 medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off.

• 1:06:02Speaker 04

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• 1:06:44Speaker 04

  in 0.8 mg, 2.5 mg, 5.5 mg, 9 mg, 14.5 mg, and 17.2 mg tablets. Learn more at foundao.lily.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX. Now is perfect to talk to your doctor about Foundao.

• 1:06:59Dax Shepard?

  We get support from Superhuman. Look, I love what I do. The conversations, the ideas, the creative stuff. But there's this whole other layer of work that eats my day alive. The inbox that never ends. Docs I need to get through, threads I'm behind on. And by the time I've dealt with all that, the stuff I actually want to focus on gets whatever's left. What I needed was something that just works where I'm already working. Not another tab to open, not another thing to set up. Superhuman Go from the makers of Grammarly is different. It's already right there inside your email, your docs, your browser. You don't go to it. It's already working alongside you. You're deep in a long thread. Highlight it and it pulls the key points. About to send something important?

• 1:07:42Dax Shepard?

  It flags what doesn't add up before it leaves your hands. It knows your style, your workflows, and it just backs you up without getting in the way. A thought partner that's already up to speed. At your service, not after your job. So do yourself a favor and try Superhuman Go from the makers of Grammarly. Find out more at superhuman.com. We get support by Peloton. You know that feeling when you're spiraling over a problem and you just can't figure it out? When that happens to me, I need a change of pace. And I've found that running is the best way. It takes my brain out of the driver's seat and I come back with a fresh perspective. Running can be freeing and cathartic, and Peloton helps you feel all of that. And now that feeling fits wherever you need it

• 1:08:26Dax Shepard?

  with the new Peloton Tread Flex. It's movable and foldable, designed to fit your life. So next time you feel stuck, you can go for a run literally anywhere, whether that's in your office, living room, or even the attic. Plus, they have classes with expert instructors and programs to meet you at any level and keep you moving. Let yourself run. Explore the new Peloton Tread Flex at onepeloton.com.

• 1:08:52Dax Shepard?

  We get support from Skims. So Monica just informed me that she's a girl's girl and I nodded like I knew exactly what that meant.

• 1:09:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the girls who get it, they get it.

• 1:09:03Dax Shepard?

  Okay, but for those of us who are clearly not girls, walk me through it.

• 1:09:07Speaker 01

  Well, you know how much I love my Skims fleece joggers because the plush fleece is so soft. It's cozy. It's really comfortable without feeling too heavy. Well, I went to friend them and she would not stop talking about how comfy they were. She almost didn't give them back to me, which was upsetting, but I'm a girl's girl, so I let her have it.

• 1:09:24Dax Shepard?

  Great, great, great.

• 1:09:25Speaker 01

  So the sleep sets are awesome because they are very soft and comfortable, but they're cute. If I'm in my sleep set, I feel fine about going down the street to pick up my food. I'm still looking cute, but I'm comfy and I'm cozy.

• 1:09:39Dax Shepard?

  Roger.

• 1:09:40Speaker 01

  A really fun thing to do is if you're going on vacation with your girlfriends to get matching Skims pajamas. I've done this with Callie and it is so fun. First of all, the pics are so cute, but also it's just fun and friendship.

• 1:09:52Dax Shepard?

  So a girl's girl is looking out for your friends with better loungewear. I get it. Am I one of your girls now?

• 1:09:58Speaker 01

  You are. You and the other girlies can shop my favorite loungewear and pajamas at skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select podcasts in the survey and be sure to select our show in the dropdown menu that follows.

• 1:10:18Dax Shepard?

  Here's what I think is really beautiful about the sport that I don't think is played up enough. It's kind of the most meritocracy Totally. sport there is.

• 1:10:28Speaker 01

  You think so?

• 1:10:29Dax Shepard?

  A hundred percent because this weekend when F1 races, a guy on the Haas team, he can't beat Max. He doesn't have the car.

• 1:10:38Speaker 01

  Well, that one is specifically

• 1:10:41Dax Shepard?

  But it, but it goes all the teams. You're on the Yankees. They have a bigger budget. They have more players. If you enter this tournament with the 260 people that enter, everyone has literally a shot to be the champion that weekend and that's so rare in any sport.

• 1:10:57Speaker 02

  People will tell me the tough losses, it's unfair. I'm like, it's the most fair.

• 1:11:01Dax Shepard?

  It's the most

• 1:11:02Speaker 02

  You never walk off feeling like, maybe it was a bad call, but the scale of unfairness in tennis is tiny.

• 1:11:08Dax Shepard?

  Compared to almost everything.

• 1:11:09Speaker 02

  You cannot make an argument for scale in tennis and it being unfair.

• 1:11:12Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:11:13Speaker 02

  It's not unfair at scale.

• 1:11:14Dax Shepard?

  I guess golf shares That as well.

• 1:11:16Speaker 02

  But that's even different. Like you can have course setups that are lucky. The PGA moves every year. If you catch a run of courses you like that fit your game.

• 1:11:23Dax Shepard?

  Right. A tennis score is a tennis score, other than the surfaces.

• 1:11:25Speaker 02

  But the surfaces, they're not changing as much, right?

• 1:11:28Speaker 01

  Right, you know what they are.

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  You know the cities are gonna be played in 10 years from now.

• 1:11:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:31Speaker 02

  Like it's just gonna be that way.

• 1:11:32Speaker 01

  What about who you're paired up with?

• 1:11:34Speaker 02

  But that's luck of the draw. It's like flipping a coin and being ahead two at the end of 10 flips. That'll even out.

• 1:11:39Dax Shepard?

  And there's no manipulation in it. So the NFL.

• 1:11:42Speaker 02

  It's random.

• 1:11:42Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 1:11:43Dax Shepard?

  The NFL is, was explained to us by the wonderful guys from Acquired. The goal of the NFL is that mid-season, every team's 500.

• 1:11:49Speaker 02

  With scheduling, you mean?

• 1:11:50Dax Shepard?

  That in the middle of the season, every team would have a 500 record. Every great team at the beginning of the season plays all their hardest games. It's not just random and it's not luck of the draw. It is manipulated so that hopefully at the middle of the season, everyone has 500.

• 1:12:05Speaker 02

  And also it's just different because you all have a tough scheduled season where the people you play are 10 games above 500.

• 1:12:11Dax Shepard?

  So that's like a really rad aspect of tennis.

• 1:12:13Speaker 02

  You're good enough or you're not good enough. There's no nepotism in tennis.

• 1:12:16Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:12:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:12:17Dax Shepard?

  There's no team spending. I mean, you could have better coaches, whatever, but.

• 1:12:20Speaker 02

  If you have federations, it's not nonexistent, but the narrative in tennis, like and how much it costs and all this. I don't know. You see all these other travel sports with kids and stuff and I'm going, I don't think that's true anymore. I think we're just being lazy about what was said during the 90s.

• 1:12:32Speaker 01

  Right, yeah.

• 1:12:33Speaker 02

  Kind of. I mean, you look at our icons. We talked about Agassi's father. You talk about Venus and Serena.

• 1:12:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:38Speaker 02

  You talk about Novak Djokovic from war-torn Serbia.

• 1:12:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, true. Yeah.

• 1:12:42Speaker 02

  And then you tell me that only.

• 1:12:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:12:45Speaker 02

  No, it's not. It's not it.

• 1:12:46Speaker 01

  Maybe gymnastics is comparable in that way. You're either good enough or you're not.

• 1:12:50Speaker 02

  And you don't need a full team to get to the highest level.

• 1:12:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:53Dax Shepard?

  It's just a really rad part that I feel like they're not telling the story enough. They're not amping that up. You know, they're not doing the prelude to that. And this guy's on a run and he's only ranked this, but this could be his weekend. Building in the human drama of it.

• 1:13:05Speaker 02

  I've once had a, you know, like people who are really great at their job are able to take complex concepts and make them into like a soundbite.

• 1:13:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:11Speaker 02

  So I had a quick lunch with Al Michaels and I was going over to cover a match for BBC at Wimbledon. He goes, just whatever you do, don't tell me what's happening. Tell me why it's happening.

• 1:13:21Dax Shepard?

  Ah, great.

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 1:13:23Speaker 02

  And it was like, very clear.

• 1:13:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:25Speaker 02

  My job's to tell you what the score is. Your job's to tell me why the score is what it is and what needs to change for it to change.

• 1:13:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:30Speaker 02

  To your point, I don't think we often, in tennis, which we try to do on our show, why is this happening? Why is it a difficult matchup? Why is it someone's good forehand, good backhand? No, the forehand in different spots and regions on the court, you can actually manipulate. It's not all the same.

• 1:13:44Dax Shepard?

  This show, Match Point, that Box to Box does.

• 1:13:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's great.

• 1:13:47Dax Shepard?

  That's great. Because again, it introduces you to the personalities. Why did it have to want to explode, drive to survive? These guys wear helmets. You can't root for a dude whose face you've never seen. You don't know his story. So it's like, that needs to get infused, obviously. But yeah, it is such a pure and wonderful sport.

• 1:14:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:01Dax Shepard?

  The mental fuck of it, man. I don't know that there's a sport like it. The mental of that game is just insane.

• 1:14:08Speaker 01

  It's like chess.

• 1:14:09Speaker 02

  There's no other sport where you can't really talk to anyone.

• 1:14:12Dax Shepard?

  It's just you.

• 1:14:14Speaker 02

  You're just there. I didn't know it was weird, and now I know it's weird.

• 1:14:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:18Speaker 02

  I sat up in the stands of the US Open last year and was just catching a match. And I'm like, just watching these two people go about their thing. Like, this is a weird sport.

• 1:14:26Dax Shepard?

  We're watching almost like a very private thing.

• 1:14:28Speaker 02

  But even the locker rooms on the last day. So you get there day one, and it's a train station. People from the qualifying tournament, 128 main draw, double. There's hundreds of players in this locker room.

• 1:14:39Dax Shepard?

  It's like the first day of college class.

• 1:14:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:40Dax Shepard?

  Where everyone's dropping out.

• 1:14:41Speaker 02

  I can only assume that's the case. I don't know. I can't speak to experience, but then you walk in the last day, and it's just you and one other person.

• 1:14:48Dax Shepard?

  Oh, that is so weird.

• 1:14:49Speaker 02

  So quiet.

• 1:14:50Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. It's like Squid Game.

• 1:14:51Speaker 02

  And it happens, it is. Every day you lose, you lose.

• 1:14:54Speaker 01

  People.

• 1:14:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. Every day you lose like a quarter of the draw.

• 1:14:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:57Speaker 01

  Whoa, yeah, that's such a mindset.

• 1:14:59Dax Shepard?

  Just two people in a locker room. It's so weird.

• 1:15:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, that is weird. Like, you walk in, then you like walk past the person. It's like, hey.

• 1:15:09Dax Shepard?

  Hey, this is stressful.

• 1:15:10Speaker 01

  So awkward.

• 1:15:11Speaker 02

  Have a good day. I mean, don't, I don't, I don't.

• 1:15:12Speaker 01

  I know, yeah. What do you say? Good luck, actually, no.

• 1:15:15Speaker 02

  Eat shit. Can't say that either.

• 1:15:17Dax Shepard?

  One of the things people aren't loving about your show is that you're not afraid to take people to task.

• 1:15:21Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 1:15:21Dax Shepard?

  I do want you to just tell me, what's this situation with this billionaire Bill?

• 1:15:25Speaker 02

  Oh, no. That's what I thought you were talking about when you was like billionaire, you said, so. So Bill Ackman, one, he's funding a lawsuit against the A to B tours. Basically saying there aren't enough jobs and a bunch of other things and not a lot of people have signed up. They basically had this thing that they say they're a players' union, but the players haven't agreed to it.

• 1:15:43Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:15:44Speaker 02

  So I'm like, I don't know where that leaves us. So we had like a contentious with his CEO from that thing like a year ago on our show. So Bill is obviously brilliant at what he does. He's a brilliant investor. Polarizing, half the country likes what he says, half the country doesn't, fancies himself like a tennis player. It's like, I'm good. One thing I don't want to do is make someone into a cartoon because he's very serious, accomplished, great at what he does.

• 1:16:07Dax Shepard?

  That's good.

• 1:16:08Speaker 02

  And takes a wild card into like a pro event and it was the Hall of Fame and I love the people at the Hall of Fame. Strongly disagreed with them on air, strongly disagree with them behind the scenes in every conversation I have. We've made our peace. I went to the induction last. We were great. And I said on the show, and I believe it, it was a minor league event.

• 1:16:22Dax Shepard?

  Who's Jack Sock? That was his doubles partner.

• 1:16:24Speaker 02

  He's a guy who's won a couple of majors in doubles, was a good singles player, well-known.

• 1:16:28Dax Shepard?

  He's a ringer.

• 1:16:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:16:30Speaker 01

  What's that mean? What do we mean?

• 1:16:32Dax Shepard?

  Brought in with an unfair advantage.

• 1:16:35Speaker 02

  But not even because, no, but Jack doesn't even play. He's not even on tour anymore. It'd be like triple A baseball, great players striving to make a living, do their thing, break through. That's what we're talking about.

• 1:16:44Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:16:45Speaker 02

  Bill Ackman decides he's gonna go play. It'd be like him going and saying like, I'm 60 years old. I'm a great pitcher. I'm gonna go pitch in a triple A baseball game.

• 1:16:51Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:16:51Speaker 02

  And I think I can do it well. The other guys are playing, like the memes are incredible. One of them set to the Kirby enthusiasm theme song where it's like they're just hitting the ball back to him. And so I just went on and like I said, this is the biggest clown show I've ever seen in pro tennis.

• 1:17:07Dax Shepard?

  It's shameful.

• 1:17:08Speaker 02

  You can't tell me people should have more jobs and then take one of the spots that week. Like it's just there are parts that I don't like. And if Bill wants to do it, Bill can do it. My personal belief and I'm gonna get texts from the Hall of Fame that I don't believe that the Hall of Fame should have allowed it. I think it's beneath the Hall of Fame. Your job is to preserve and celebrate greatness.

• 1:17:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:17:24Speaker 02

  This was not it.

• 1:17:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:25Speaker 02

  By a long shot.

• 1:17:26Speaker 01

  This was a stunt.

• 1:17:27Speaker 02

  I said what I said. I went in the studio hot.

• 1:17:31Speaker 01

  Good for you.

• 1:17:31Speaker 02

  I didn't talk about it again, but.

• 1:17:33Dax Shepard?

  I thought it was very funny.

• 1:17:34Speaker 02

  It was a clown show.

• 1:17:35Dax Shepard?

  Okay, very last thing. I just think it's funny that, or I like that Austin's such a home base for you. I was hell bent on moving to Austin. And then what I was also debating is like, or do I go to Asheville? And I love Asheville. We ended up in Nashville and I love that. But you have a place in the Blue Ridge.

• 1:17:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:53Dax Shepard?

  So I'm going mid-October with my best friend from Detroit. We're gonna leave Nashville, ride motorcycles, be stationed in Nashville and then do rides.

• 1:18:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:18:01Dax Shepard?

  Every day out of there. And just how lovely is the Blue Ridge?

• 1:18:04Speaker 02

  Blue Ridge Mountains is heaven. We don't have each other. Get it off. I'm gonna send you places you need to stop.

• 1:18:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:10Speaker 02

  Do the whole thing. It's magic. Honestly, there's no better thing than just like getting outside and feeling small.

• 1:18:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:15Speaker 02

  It's the best. We spent our summers up in this place and you look at like a bald-faced rock and our kids go and throw rocks. It streams all day.

• 1:18:22Dax Shepard?

  I took my daughter when she was three, just the two of us went to Asheville. We went to Looking Glass Falls, Sliding Rock. And he always sat in a river for like seven hours and played. And I'm like, this place calls to me. This is special. So I don't know, in that way, I feel like we're long-lost brothers because we're being pulled to all the same places. Everybody listen to Served with Andy Roddick. You have the number one tennis podcast for a reason. I hope everyone checks it out. And this has been goddamn delightful.

• 1:18:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, I appreciate you guys. It's fun. I had to like check myself. I'm such a huge fan of the show. So I'm really happy to be on.

• 1:18:51Dax Shepard?

  Thank you. All right. Be well.

• 1:18:52Speaker 02

  Cheers. Thank you.

• 1:18:55Speaker 02

  We hope you enjoyed this episode. Unfortunately, they made some host eggs.

• 1:19:03Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna tell you, this has lifted my spirits. I want to thank you.

• 1:19:06Speaker 01

  Oh, good.

• 1:19:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:08Speaker 01

  I'm happy about that.

• 1:19:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I entered feeling like I was dying.

• 1:19:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:14Dax Shepard?

  And now I feel happy.

• 1:19:15Speaker 01

  Good. Conversation can do that.

• 1:19:19Dax Shepard?

  Especially when it's revolving around Travis's penis.

• 1:19:23Speaker 01

  Oh, is that what did it?

• 1:19:26Dax Shepard?

  No, it's just a lot of laughing and you said I had spray on my lip.

• 1:19:29Speaker 01

  Well.

• 1:19:30Dax Shepard?

  Which I did, technically.

• 1:19:32Speaker 01

  You did.

• 1:19:33Dax Shepard?

  Uh, nicotine spray, not.

• 1:19:35Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:19:35Dax Shepard?

  Spray, spray.

• 1:19:36Speaker 01

  That's right. And not pee from your catheter.

• 1:19:38Dax Shepard?

  Nope. Not orange. McDonald's orange.

• 1:19:41Speaker 01

  Did you?

• 1:19:42Dax Shepard?

  Did I what?

• 1:19:45Dax Shepard?

  Save some.

• 1:19:46Speaker 01

  Want to taste it?

• 1:19:47Dax Shepard?

  Oh, Rob, will you put a picture up of the McDonald's orange drink? Just so we can check in with the color because I want you to know. Yeah, you see that?

• 1:19:57Speaker 01

  Wow. Yeah. And that's not orange soda? I think it's high C. High C.

• 1:20:03Dax Shepard?

  It's more like a high C. I remember at a birthday party, you could get the big jug, that big McDonald's cooler.

• 1:20:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:20:09Dax Shepard?

  A dispenser and dump the powder in and then the water and then it was, you know, that was the orange drink.

• 1:20:15Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:20:16Dax Shepard?

  So I don't think it was carbonated.

• 1:20:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:20:18Dax Shepard?

  But they probably did have orange soda as well.

• 1:20:21Speaker 01

  In the fountain. We moved past.

• 1:20:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we're gonna move on.

• 1:20:23Speaker 01

  Well, no, no, no.

• 1:20:24Dax Shepard?

  Ten fact check.

• 1:20:25Speaker 01

  I have one more question though.

• 1:20:26Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:20:27Speaker 01

  Because we did move past me being correct about the UTI.

• 1:20:32Dax Shepard?

  Oh, uh huh.

• 1:20:33Speaker 01

  Um, because when you were in pain, I was like, it kind of sounds like a UTI. And sometimes some men do get them sometimes.

• 1:20:41Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 1:20:42Speaker 01

  Um, were you like, I don't want a UTI. That's a women's thing.

• 1:20:47Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 1:20:47Speaker 01

  Did you feel emasculated? A little bit?

• 1:20:50Dax Shepard?

  No, um, which is not to say I couldn't.

• 1:20:54Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:20:54Dax Shepard?

  But you know, all these things is like, what's the chain of events?

• 1:20:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, what?

• 1:20:59Dax Shepard?

  Right? Like if you have an infection in your prostate and then that gets into your urethra, that then you have a UTI. Like, is it a UTI that then somehow infected my prostate or did I have prostatitis, which in fact? And I don't think we'll ever know. But because it's not obvious to me, I didn't go down the path of like, Jesus, how did I get a UTI? Fucked a guy and I didn't pee afterwards?

• 1:21:20Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:21:21Dax Shepard?

  Generally how the women I know in my life get it.

• 1:21:23Speaker 01

  Well, no, you can get it a lot of ways. You could have, it could have been, sorry, it could have been a wiping situation.

• 1:21:30Dax Shepard?

  I don't want, you don't wipe your penis.

• 1:21:32Speaker 01

  I think you accidentally.

• 1:21:34Dax Shepard?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 1:21:35Speaker 01

  Got some duty.

• 1:21:36Dax Shepard?

  No, Monica.

• 1:21:37Speaker 01

  Okay, okay. I'm just, okay.

• 1:21:39Dax Shepard?

  I did not. That's, that would be impossible.

• 1:21:41Speaker 01

  It'd be impossible. No, it's not impossible. You could have doodyed. As we talked about, you doody sometimes in the toilet.

• 1:21:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:48Speaker 01

  And then maybe just the penis hit it on really quickly. And.

• 1:21:52Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it like bounced into the.

• 1:21:54Speaker 01

  Bowl and it touched just, just a very.

• 1:21:58Dax Shepard?

  I still think, um, and this is why guys don't get it as much.

• 1:22:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:03Dax Shepard?

  We have a lot bit longer distance between there and the bladder.

• 1:22:06Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:22:07Dax Shepard?

  Where you need the, the UTI to really take.

• 1:22:09Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:22:10Dax Shepard?

  Fine purchase.

• 1:22:10Speaker 01

  And wiping is a. Different scenario, but that's why I don't think this was wiping.

• 1:22:13Dax Shepard?

  I would have peed, you know, the, the, the odds of that in your hypothetical making its way all the way to my bladder are very low, which is why I think it's rare that guys get it.

• 1:22:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:22:24Dax Shepard?

  But people have got to be tired of my medical condition. So.

• 1:22:27Speaker 01

  Normally UTIs are first and then it starts spreading everywhere.

• 1:22:32Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:22:33Speaker 01

  And that's bad.

• 1:22:34Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Well, the guy did say the prostate is hard to get medicine into and it's hard for infection to get out of it.

• 1:22:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:42Dax Shepard?

  It's really.

• 1:22:43Speaker 01

  It's.

• 1:22:44Dax Shepard?

  It's in its own little universe. Yeah, it's got like a nice, I guess, protective barrier.

• 1:22:51Speaker 01

  It lives on its own island, physically and emotionally.

• 1:22:54Dax Shepard?

  I think people are up for a GLP one update. I've heard people ask like, hey, what's the updates? And then I certainly would like one.

• 1:23:02Speaker 01

  Okay. Well, we can do a mini update because we're probably gonna have Dr. Isaacson on a fact check coming up to talk about all of our blood results.

• 1:23:13Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:23:14Speaker 01

  He says we both have interesting results and so I'm curious.

• 1:23:19Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:23:19Speaker 01

  What that will be.

• 1:23:20Dax Shepard?

  Interesting is.

• 1:23:21Speaker 01

  When we first got our results after the first cognitive test and he did all the blood work and went through it all. Uh, he basically said I was a medical marvel.

• 1:23:29Dax Shepard?

  Uh, okay.

• 1:23:30Speaker 01

  Um, I forget why.

• 1:23:33Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh. It wasn't the, was it a good kind of medical marvel?

• 1:23:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:37Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it was.

• 1:23:38Speaker 01

  It was like you, really unique stuff was happening.

• 1:23:42Dax Shepard?

  I think anomaly might be a better word than marvel.

• 1:23:45Speaker 01

  I prefer medical marvel. And one thing, I don't remember if we talked about this back then, but they found randomly this one little like gene. One little elevation in numbers on this one little thing and no one would really look at it because who cares? But they looked and then they did a deep dive and that correlates to, uh, late onset epilepsy.

• 1:24:14Dax Shepard?

  Whoa, really? Whoa.

• 1:24:17Speaker 01

  Isn't that crazy?

• 1:24:18Dax Shepard?

  Wow. So in a world of where CRISPR is over the counter, do you think you get that gene edited out and you go off of your Capra and your?

• 1:24:26Speaker 01

  Wow, that's a great question because would I feel safe enough to go off of the medicine? Even if I knew the gene itself was cut out.

• 1:24:34Dax Shepard?

  Because you got to remember in order, it's like you went on Capra and then you needed to go on antidepressants.

• 1:24:41Dax Shepard?

  Or I shouldn't say needed.

• 1:24:43Speaker 01

  No, I did, I did need to, yeah.

• 1:24:44Dax Shepard?

  And then you went on antidepressants.

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, but we have different, I think, well, look, Capra, uh, uh, Capra can be associated with depression.

• 1:24:55Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:24:56Speaker 01

  But I believe deeply that that was, that just, again, it was, I had a seizure, I had to put on this medication, COVID.

• 1:25:08Dax Shepard?

  Started right away.

• 1:25:09Speaker 01

  Started, it so much was happening that, that it just pushed me over the edge.

• 1:25:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, hard to parse out.

• 1:25:15Speaker 01

  It's hard to parse out. I, knowing me, knowing my family history.

• 1:25:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:21Speaker 01

  I believe I needed antidepressants before that.

• 1:25:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:26Speaker 01

  And would have needed it regardless.

• 1:25:28Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:25:29Speaker 01

  But who knows?

• 1:25:30Dax Shepard?

  Who knows?

• 1:25:31Speaker 01

  Who knows? And I wonder if I would feel safe enough to get off of it.

• 1:25:37Dax Shepard?

  Also, antidepressants often cause weight gain.

• 1:25:42Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:25:43Dax Shepard?

  Right?

• 1:25:43Speaker 01

  They can, yes, they can.

• 1:25:45Dax Shepard?

  And, and then there's a fourth thing in the mix that causes weight reduction.

• 1:25:50Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:25:50Dax Shepard?

  You know, at least from my perspective, it does look like there could be a whole chain of events that starts with one thing.

• 1:25:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:57Dax Shepard?

  It'd be interesting if you didn't have that one thing, what, where we're at with all the other stuff.

• 1:26:02Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:26:03Dax Shepard?

  I don't know either.

• 1:26:04Speaker 01

  I don't know. I, I know for sure that being on the TRIZ.

• 1:26:10Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:26:11Speaker 01

  Has not impacted my mood.

• 1:26:17Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:26:18Speaker 01

  For a while I was like, oh.

• 1:26:19Dax Shepard?

  We call it there's appetite TRIZ.

• 1:26:20Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:26:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:22Speaker 01

  Um, like it, I think for a while I thought, oh, maybe there'll be a reduction in anxiety or depression. Cause I had heard that there might be some things there.

• 1:26:32Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 1:26:32Speaker 01

  That is not the case.

• 1:26:33Dax Shepard?

  But again, I think that's like, if one of your things is, you're in a constant shame spiral that you've eaten in a way that you don't want to eat, but you keep eating and this thing stops that, then of course it's going to impact depression.

• 1:26:44Speaker 01

  Right, that's true.

• 1:26:45Dax Shepard?

  But you were not, you're not there. Yeah, that's not you.

• 1:26:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, correct.

• 1:26:48Dax Shepard?

  You weren't like living in any shame spiral.

• 1:26:50Speaker 01

  I mean, the drinking was, that was, that's part of the mix. And that's been interesting to follow that whole journey. That was one of the main reasons I wanted to do it was to see my relationship with it. And at first, I did notice a change. I think what I said was I was drinking less, but

• 1:27:14Dax Shepard?

  Frequency the same.

• 1:27:15Speaker 01

  Exactly. Amount is less.

• 1:27:17Dax Shepard?

  But dosage lowered.

• 1:27:18Speaker 01

  And I think that's still correct.

• 1:27:20Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:27:21Speaker 01

  I, I think for sure.

• 1:27:25Speaker 01

  I reached my capacity soon, earlier, but it's still, I still drink every day, basically. So that's been kind of a bummer.

• 1:27:37Dax Shepard?

  A letdown.

• 1:27:38Speaker 01

  But part of that is like, it's mental, like there, there will be, and this is bad, but there will be times where I'm like, I'm not even, I'm not even in the mood to drink. Like, I don't really want to, but I'm here and, and I will.

• 1:27:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:51Speaker 01

  So that's.

• 1:27:53Dax Shepard?

  Whatever.

• 1:27:54Speaker 01

  I don't know what that is. Habit, I guess, or just, oh, we're out, like, I might as well.

• 1:28:00Dax Shepard?

  Look at Charlie Sheen, they, did you finish the doc?

• 1:28:02Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:28:03Dax Shepard?

  The craziest thing is no one could get him off crack. They couldn't figure out how to get him off crack.

• 1:28:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:07Dax Shepard?

  So they convinced his dealer, because his dealer loved him.

• 1:28:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:11Dax Shepard?

  To start titrating, so because you make coke out of cocaine.

• 1:28:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:28:17Dax Shepard?

  I'm sorry, you make crack out of cocaine.

• 1:28:19Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:28:20Dax Shepard?

  He could add however much baking soda he wanted to dilute it. And over the course of a year, he just reduced the crack to having almost no cocaine in it.

• 1:28:31Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:28:32Dax Shepard?

  And eventually, and then Charlie's just thinking, well, I've reached the capacity, I can no longer get high, and he stopped.

• 1:28:39Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:28:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he's just like, I don't know why the fuck I'm doing this, it doesn't do anything. And then he switched to drinking, then became a really bad alcoholic for a year or two. But they got him off of crack by tricking him and titrating him.

• 1:28:49Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 1:28:50Dax Shepard?

  So what's interesting is it's, you're at the point where it's like, you've kind of been titrated in a way that you're like, I don't even really want it.

• 1:28:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:58Dax Shepard?

  But just the muscle memory and habit is like, but I'm gonna do it.

• 1:29:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:02Dax Shepard?

  But it's interesting if someone could trick you the same way.

• 1:29:05Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:29:06Dax Shepard?

  And all of a sudden it had no alcohol.

• 1:29:07Speaker 01

  I think I would still do it.

• 1:29:09Dax Shepard?

  Still do it, yeah.

• 1:29:12Speaker 01

  Like right now, I'm like.

• 1:29:14Dax Shepard?

  I'm in. Sounds good.

• 1:29:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's, it's weird. It's weird. I have noticed like, oh, I, I don't really. Okay, sure. I'll get a martini. Like, that's how it, that's, I'm not craving it, I guess, in the same way. So that is interesting. It's just so social.

• 1:29:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:32Speaker 01

  It's such, it's a good, it's not even that it's a good time. I mean, it is a good time, but it's.

• 1:29:38Dax Shepard?

  What you do.

• 1:29:38Speaker 01

  Just what you do. It's something to have in your hand. It's something, I don't know. Maybe I'm, maybe I'm heading towards sobriety. Doesn't sound like it based on everything I just said. Yeah, but also, um, I have definitely lost weight.

• 1:29:54Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh. We don't know how much.

• 1:29:56Speaker 01

  It was not the goal and I don't know how much because I don't weigh myself.

• 1:29:59Dax Shepard?

  Well, what's interesting is, uh, does Dr. Isaacson did weigh us on intake, but we didn't get weighed at this.

• 1:30:05Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:30:06Dax Shepard?

  So I think we need to get weighed. He's gonna wanna know that. And I'm kinda dying to know what the difference is for you.

• 1:30:13Speaker 01

  I'm curious. I, um.

• 1:30:16Dax Shepard?

  I think you've lost about sixty-five pounds. This is like, could be the biggest minefield ever to play a game of like, how much do you think I lost?

• 1:30:24Speaker 01

  I know. No.

• 1:30:25Dax Shepard?

  Sixty, seventy pounds? I don't know. What do you think?

• 1:30:28Speaker 01

  There's a lot of traps in this, in this conversation because I, and like, I don't mean to like, trigger anyone. Um, I'll just, I can only talk about me and my body.

• 1:30:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:39Speaker 01

  I'm already, I'm small. I've always been small.

• 1:30:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:43Speaker 01

  So, cause somebody asked like, oh, have you had to go down in size on your, in, on your pants?

• 1:30:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:49Speaker 01

  Um, people are gonna hate me for saying this. No, because I already wore the smallest size.

• 1:30:55Dax Shepard?

  Okay, right. There's nowhere else to go.

• 1:30:57Speaker 01

  So, yeah. So it's not like, oh.

• 1:30:59Dax Shepard?

  Are you safety pinning any of your?

• 1:31:00Speaker 01

  So, yesterday, I put, I did put on a pair of pants and I was like. Oh, they like, they are about to fall off. So I am, you know, I've lost weight in a way that I don't want to lose more weight. I don't want that. Like, I, I, my pa- I saw my parents for, you know, my aunt. And my mom, first thing, my mom saw me and she said, you've lost a lot of weight. And I was like, no, I don't think so since summer. And she was like, yes, I think so. And then I went to the next room and saw my dad. At first thing he said.

• 1:31:38Dax Shepard?

  Okay, but here's, okay, okay, there's a lot going on here. A, they're like, they're already dealing with something of sadness. So like, is she depressed? Is that the explanation for the weight loss?

• 1:31:48Speaker 01

  Oh, sure.

• 1:31:48Dax Shepard?

  So that's an obvious fear.

• 1:31:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:50Dax Shepard?

  But I'll add that when I go back to Mi- back, I used to go back to Michigan.

• 1:31:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:55Dax Shepard?

  And people treated me like I had full-blown eight. They're like, why are you so thin? Like, totally concerned.

• 1:32:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:32:04Dax Shepard?

  And I was like, I just gotta acknowledge, like, the baseline of what way too thin is in LA is, is just way different.

• 1:32:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:32:12Dax Shepard?

  And, and truthfully, I'm with like six of my friends growing up and they've all got that, you know, they're all hovering around 235 and they got a nice gut they've earned. And that is how you look. So when you don't have it, it looks crazy to them.

• 1:32:25Speaker 01

  It'd be one thing if it was the other family members who said that. But my parents do see me a fair, they saw me in the summer and they have, I, again, I've always been small. So it's not like they're like, why aren't you looking thicker? Like, I, I, I think to them, it was drastic.

• 1:32:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:49Speaker 01

  Whatever. That's whatever. The, the weight. Except, I will be honest, and Dr. Richard Isaacson is really not gonna like this. But it is the truth. I have lost a lot of muscle.

• 1:33:01Dax Shepard?

  Oh, uh huh, uh huh, yeah.

• 1:33:02Speaker 01

  And that is bad. And I, the whole, I've been try, you know, trying to actively build bone density.

• 1:33:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:13Speaker 01

  Farmer's carries. I haven't done farmer's carries.

• 1:33:16Dax Shepard?

  I'm afraid to ask you, but how much effort have you put into muscle retention?

• 1:33:19Speaker 01

  Because I, it, they're, now they're too heavy.

• 1:33:23Dax Shepard?

  Shit.

• 1:33:23Speaker 01

  Okay, so now we're in a weird, now I don't really know what to do because I'm weaker.

• 1:33:30Dax Shepard?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:33:36Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 1:33:37Dax Shepard?

  There is a new one, as you know, there's a new one that you're gonna be able to switch to very shortly that specifically prevents that muscle loss.

• 1:33:45Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 1:33:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, there's a new one. I'm seeing different people on my feed talk about it.

• 1:33:50Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:33:51Dax Shepard?

  And I guess it's close to being approved, but yeah. It's like a triple inhibitor.

• 1:33:57Speaker 01

  Oh, it's a GLP three?

• 1:33:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, well, it's like some glutide plus this plus that and it and it um, it it does counter that that muscle loss issue that is quite prevalent.

• 1:34:10Speaker 01

  Okay, that's interesting.

• 1:34:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:13Speaker 01

  But it's hard because what I like about this GLP one is I do, I feel safe on it. Like, there's been, at this point, so many studies, you've had enough people on that have been like, it's pretty good.

• 1:34:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:25Speaker 01

  Um, so to do this other one feels a little more risky.

• 1:34:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:31Speaker 01

  I should probably just try to do more farmer's carries, but they're so heavy.

• 1:34:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:38Dax Shepard?

  Oh, boy. I'm like starting to get nervous you're gonna fall down your apartment and just be like.

• 1:34:47Speaker 01

  I did, I will.

• 1:34:48Dax Shepard?

  You shouldn't have lost your ability to carry those things you could carry two months ago.

• 1:34:52Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:34:53Dax Shepard?

  So quickly.

• 1:34:53Speaker 01

  But I was stronger.

• 1:34:55Dax Shepard?

  Right, but you you you didn't, you needed to stick with it a little more, I think. I don't know how to say this, but you.

• 1:35:02Speaker 01

  They were heavy.

• 1:35:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but they wouldn't have been heavy if you kept, if you never stopped.

• 1:35:07Speaker 01

  I know, but I know, but then I was tired.

• 1:35:09Dax Shepard?

  Like, if I don't squat for a month and a half, I'm not gonna be able to go squat 250 like my normal thing. I'm gonna have to drop down. But you can, within a couple of weeks, you can be back.

• 1:35:21Speaker 01

  I work my way back. I can.

• 1:35:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:25Speaker 01

  I have to start off with fives.

• 1:35:27Dax Shepard?

  Whatever it takes. And then then next week you do 10.

• 1:35:31Speaker 01

  I do, I need to, I need to, I I am a little nervous about the lack of muscle.

• 1:35:36Dax Shepard?

  But I want you to.

• 1:35:37Speaker 01

  I know. I'm aware of it. It's bad. That's the one thing, before I got on it, Dr. Richard Eisen was very clear that I needed to monitor the muscle and make sure I was, and I didn't do it.

• 1:35:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:48Speaker 01

  I didn't, I didn't do it.

• 1:35:50Dax Shepard?

  Look, we're not. Perfect. Okay.

• 1:35:52Speaker 01

  I know that. I have to get back on that and I will. Um, I have been really tired and maybe I just have a bug. Uh, but there are these weird cycles where like you're eating less and so you have less energy and so you don't want to work out because you have less. Like that part's bad. I do need to break that cycle. Um, I have been going to bed at seven for the past couple nights. And sleeping till like

• 1:36:20Dax Shepard?

  I have two, but I'm dying.

• 1:36:22Speaker 01

  I know. You're sick.

• 1:36:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:36:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. I have thought like, this isn't exactly right.

• 1:36:27Dax Shepard?

  I'm a little concerned with these updates.

• 1:36:32Dax Shepard?

  Going to bed at seven.

• 1:36:33Speaker 01

  It was weird.

• 1:36:35Dax Shepard?

  Five pounds.

• 1:36:38Dax Shepard?

  I weigh somewhere around 76 pounds and but I'm still drinking. The only thing I'm, the only thing.

• 1:36:46Speaker 01

  The only thing I've really committed to?

• 1:36:48Dax Shepard?

  Cause I am, even I don't even want it, but I get through it.

• 1:36:52Speaker 01

  I force it down.

• 1:36:57Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 1:37:03Dax Shepard?

  We get support from Instagram teen accounts. So we talk a lot on this show about how the world is different now than when we were growing up. And one of the biggest differences is obviously social media. And I think a lot of people wonder, okay, what's actually being done to make it safer for teenagers?

• 1:37:19Speaker 01

  Which is a fair question.

• 1:37:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So Instagram has got something called teen accounts and they come with automatic protections built in by default. So anyone between 13 and 17 is automatically placed into this experience. They get age appropriate content settings, contact limits, so that by default, only people they're already connected to can message them. And time management tools, daily time limit reminders, and also sleep mode that mutes notifications from 10:00 PM to 7:00 AM.

• 1:37:47Speaker 01

  Sleep mode is genius.

• 1:37:48Dax Shepard?

  Right? And here's the thing, for anyone under 16, a parent has to give permission to change any of those settings to be less strict. The guardrails are on and Instagram keeps building new safety features to create age appropriate experiences for teens.

• 1:38:04Speaker 01

  I am really glad Instagram's helping to give parents peace of mind with teen accounts.

• 1:38:08Dax Shepard?

  Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens online at instagram.com/teenaccounts.

• 1:38:22Speaker 01

  Oh, no, but you know what?

• 1:38:24Dax Shepard?

  I think you gotta try the Mel Robbins 54321 approach to this.

• 1:38:28Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:38:29Dax Shepard?

  Which is her first book and she became wildly popular over it.

• 1:38:33Speaker 01

  Easter egg.

• 1:38:34Dax Shepard?

  Well. Which is.

• 1:38:37Speaker 01

  When is it an Easter egg and when am I just telling people?

• 1:38:40Dax Shepard?

  Well, it's, yeah, that's.

• 1:38:42Speaker 01

  That's the question.

• 1:38:43Dax Shepard?

  It's too big of an Easter egg. If I say Mel Robbins and then you say Easter egg.

• 1:38:48Dax Shepard?

  But her thing is you think of what you want to do.

• 1:38:53Dax Shepard?

  And I want to get out of bed. And then you start thinking.

• 1:38:58Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:38:58Dax Shepard?

  It's cold out there. I don't want to get out of bed. Soon as your brain starts. You're not going to get out of bed.

• 1:39:07Speaker 01

  Ah, huh.

• 1:39:08Dax Shepard?

  But the second, if you can start training yourself, the second you have a thought like, I should do farm. You'll, you'll be sitting in your house, I should do some farmer carries and then immediately go five, four, three, two, one, and on one, stand up and do it.

• 1:39:21Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:39:22Dax Shepard?

  Because you're interrupting that cycle of convincing yourself not to do the thing you know you have to do.

• 1:39:28Speaker 01

  I like that.

• 1:39:29Dax Shepard?

  She's like, people are just waiting for motivation to hit them and it doesn't, that's not what happens. You have to interrupt. Uh, and, and this is a very well worn technique that works.

• 1:39:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:39:39Dax Shepard?

  So I don't know, report back. Let's see. Try the 54321. The second you think of something, just immediately go five, four, three, two, one, and stand up and do it.

• 1:39:49Speaker 01

  Okay. So it'll be like, I don't really want a martini. Five, four, three, two, one. Shake, shake, shake, shake.

• 1:39:59Dax Shepard?

  You're already doing it somehow with not wanting the martini and having that.

• 1:40:02Speaker 01

  This is good. That's helpful. That's good for my farmer's carries, but I gotta, the problem is you encouraged me when I was very strong.

• 1:40:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:11Speaker 01

  To do two 40s.

• 1:40:13Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:40:14Speaker 01

  And I could do that.

• 1:40:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:15Speaker 01

  I bought those. Now I don't have the right equipment. I don't have like two 30s.

• 1:40:21Dax Shepard?

  Right. But just, I think a standard farmer carry goal is your body weight.

• 1:40:26Speaker 01

  Right. Which I don't know what that is.

• 1:40:27Dax Shepard?

  Well, you, you know, it's above 80 pounds.

• 1:40:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:30Dax Shepard?

  So.

• 1:40:31Speaker 01

  But that's.

• 1:40:31Dax Shepard?

  So listen, 80 is not too heavy for you. It's just, you're not going to be doing it as long as you want to.

• 1:40:37Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:40:37Dax Shepard?

  But you gotta do it. You just do that weight and do it for however long you can count. And then next time you gotta do it one second longer.

• 1:40:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:40:46Dax Shepard?

  All right.

• 1:40:46Speaker 01

  I'll try.

• 1:40:47Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:40:49Speaker 01

  I can't do it right now because we're in the, I can't do five, four.

• 1:40:51Dax Shepard?

  Five, what if you just stood up and go five, four, and then you.

• 1:40:55Speaker 01

  Just left. Well, all right. I, I do. Okay. So those are the updates. Like, I guess they're mixed.

• 1:41:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's mixed. Yeah.

• 1:41:02Speaker 01

  Um, and when we get our blood work, we'll know more.

• 1:41:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:06Speaker 01

  And I'm really, really curious about that. I'm very curious about my cholesterol.

• 1:41:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:11Speaker 01

  And even blood sugar and things like that.

• 1:41:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, me too.

• 1:41:15Speaker 01

  So TBD on that.

• 1:41:18Dax Shepard?

  TBDsle. Um, so for this motorcycle trip.

• 1:41:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:21Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna send you a picture, Rob. Can you put it on the screen? Sure, can. You want me to email it? Uh, yes, please. Okay.

• 1:41:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're going on a trip.

• 1:41:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, this is so exciting. I'm so lucky and spoiled. I want to own this because if I was a dude listening to this, I'd be like, you know what? Fuck you. You have money. But I have great relationships with all these different motorcycle manufacturers.

• 1:41:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:41Dax Shepard?

  I go to track events with them. I'll be in their videos, whatever. And so people loan me stuff.

• 1:41:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:48Dax Shepard?

  Which is so awesome.

• 1:41:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. Sustainable.

• 1:41:50Dax Shepard?

  Very sustainable. And I have a motorcycle down in Tennessee. Um, I have a gorgeous Moto Guzzi. I have not gotten the title yet to plate it. So it's like, I've got this great tour bike that I'm dying to ride on this motorcycle trip.

• 1:42:03Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:42:03Dax Shepard?

  And I can't ride it because there's no plates.

• 1:42:05Speaker 01

  Oh, you're gonna let that stop you?

• 1:42:07Dax Shepard?

  Well, I'm like, well, I wasn't going to.

• 1:42:10Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:42:11Dax Shepard?

  I was like, okay, I'm gonna bring a plate from one of my other motorcycles and just slap it on there and then pray I don't get pulled over. Or if I get pulled over, the guy doesn't know the difference between a Moto Guzzi and a Ducati. Of course, I was gonna go the outlaw route. But then the responsible part was me was like, hey, you've got a couple of good relationships. Why don't you see if you can borrow a bike while you're down there? Also, a lot of these places are based in Atlanta. So it's like, not that far. So I was able to borrow two motorcycles for Aaron and I. Because also Aaron was gonna drive 600 miles on his motorcycle. He was gonna ride for basically 12 hours to my house and then get up in the morning and ride with me for 400 miles.

• 1:42:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:45Dax Shepard?

  And he, and then he, at the last minute, he's like, I can't do it. I'm gonna rent a truck and I'm gonna put the motorcycle. And then I was like, oh, hold on, let me just see if I, and then you could fly in. It'd be so much easier. I got this super awesome Harley Pan America, which I, I had, I've never ridden and they've like, they've gone full gusto. It's super fast, crazy good brakes. I'm really excited. And then, and if anyone is into motorcycles, growing up, you're like, A Goldwing, that's like a grandpa's motorcycle.

• 1:43:14Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:43:14Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:43:15Speaker 01

  It's like catheter?

• 1:43:16Dax Shepard?

  It's like a catheter. I don't want to say that because Honda is, they're loaning me.

• 1:43:19Speaker 01

  I love Honda.

• 1:43:20Dax Shepard?

  Yes. So, growing up, you're like, oh yeah, that's, that's for old guys. So I hit Honda up. I'm like, hey, do you have anything in the fleet? And then my man said, I'm going to pitch you the Goldwing. Like for this kind of ride, I'm just going to consider the Goldwing. And I was like, you know what? I think I am up for a Goldwing.

• 1:43:40Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:43:40Dax Shepard?

  So this is a big moment for me.

• 1:43:42Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:43:43Dax Shepard?

  Okay, Rob, please show the picture. So the Goldwing arrived yesterday. Monica, look at this motorcycle. Look how big the backseat is. Go, Rob, zoom. First of all, it's a six cylinder motorcycle, which is bonkers, right?

• 1:43:55Speaker 01

  What is that?

• 1:43:55Dax Shepard?

  Ducatis are like generally twins, two, two cylinders. Maximum four in line. This is a six cylinder. And this backseat, so I sent this picture to Aaron.

• 1:44:06Speaker 01

  Looks like a first class plane seat.

• 1:44:08Dax Shepard?

  Absolutely. Even the, the rider's seat is incredible. And then you see the speakers built in? I've got like a huge sound system.

• 1:44:15Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:44:16Dax Shepard?

  Aaron, I sent this picture to Aaron and immediately we both had the same thought. We were like, why are we going to bring two motorcycles?

• 1:44:23Speaker 01

  You guys are going to ride tandem?

• 1:44:25Dax Shepard?

  Look at this thing. Isn't it begging for just the two of us to be on this motorcycle? Oh my God, look at that backseat.

• 1:44:32Speaker 01

  Where do you use, is the backseat where you sit?

• 1:44:34Dax Shepard?

  No, you see that big backrest? That's the passenger. Then you look lower. That's where my butt goes. There's a little lip. I'll point.

• 1:44:42Speaker 01

  Oh. This is for the passenger. Oh my God. Yes. How can you see above?

• 1:44:49Dax Shepard?

  I'm thinking, I think I'd rather be a passenger on this thing. With Aaron riding and me just sightseeing the fall colors?

• 1:44:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So I'm, I'm entering the Goldwing phase of my life.

• 1:45:02Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:45:03Dax Shepard?

  I'm done being cool.

• 1:45:04Speaker 01

  You're ready for comfort.

• 1:45:06Dax Shepard?

  Oh my God. I just, that thing looks so fucking comfortable. It might ride itself there.

• 1:45:10Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:45:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:12Speaker 01

  Oh my God.

• 1:45:13Dax Shepard?

  All right. Just wanted to show you.

• 1:45:14Speaker 01

  That's going to be cute. You two on there together.

• 1:45:16Dax Shepard?

  I mean, we're going to bring the second motorcycle, but who knows? We might do, you know, because we're going to do rides every day and come back to Asheville.

• 1:45:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:24Dax Shepard?

  We might take a two up ride one of these days.

• 1:45:26Speaker 01

  Are you guys going to stay in a cute hotel?

• 1:45:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. We got it. We got a cute little. No, the, the vacancy was now almost non-existent because, because people do go there for the colors. I realized because I searched everywhere and I was two months out when I booked this.

• 1:45:41Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 1:45:42Dax Shepard?

  And there was slim fucking pickings, but we're in a cool little boutique hotel downtown.

• 1:45:47Speaker 01

  Cute.

• 1:45:48Dax Shepard?

  And then I hit up our sweet boy Luke Combs.

• 1:45:50Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:45:51Dax Shepard?

  Asheville native.

• 1:45:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:52Dax Shepard?

  I said, where should I eat? And he's like, boom, boom, boom. The ribs here are impossibly good.

• 1:45:57Speaker 01

  Yum.

• 1:45:58Dax Shepard?

  Go here for fish. Not gonna happen, but whatever.

• 1:46:01Speaker 01

  You could try it.

• 1:46:02Dax Shepard?

  Not gonna try it.

• 1:46:03Speaker 01

  You could enter that phase of your life, too.

• 1:46:05Dax Shepard?

  I've tried it. Okay. Okay. Facts?

• 1:46:09Speaker 01

  Okay, facts.

• 1:46:10Dax Shepard?

  Thanks for indulging my motorcycle. Sorry.

• 1:46:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's fun. I'm excited to hear. I hope you guys are careful. I have to say that.

• 1:46:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we will be.

• 1:46:17Speaker 01

  And I hope you have so much fun.

• 1:46:19Dax Shepard?

  Thank you.

• 1:46:20Speaker 01

  Wow. Um, that was a fun one.

• 1:46:23Dax Shepard?

  It was.

• 1:46:23Speaker 01

  And it's fun to have sports experts on, like athletes. I would guess they're called athletes.

• 1:46:28Dax Shepard?

  He was also very mature, was my conclusion. I was like, I felt like we were peers, but I'm, I am nine years older than him.

• 1:46:34Speaker 01

  Oh, well, he's lived just such a big life.

• 1:46:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:38Speaker 01

  And he does have a very evolved perspective on it, I think.

• 1:46:42Dax Shepard?

  I agree. Yeah.

• 1:46:43Speaker 01

  I enjoyed him a lot.

• 1:46:44Dax Shepard?

  I felt, we felt contemporary, but we weren't.

• 1:46:47Speaker 01

  Well, at what age are you not like?

• 1:46:50Dax Shepard?

  Well, just put it this way. I was graduating when he was in third grade.

• 1:46:53Speaker 01

  I know, but, but once you hit a certain age, when are you not contemporary?

• 1:46:59Dax Shepard?

  It does diminish.

• 1:47:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:01Dax Shepard?

  Like a 60 year old and a 50 year old are far different than a 10 year old and a 20 year old.

• 1:47:05Speaker 01

  Exactly. I think when you're over 40. Um, I think if you're 40 or above, you're all the same.

• 1:47:14Dax Shepard?

  I saw a really comforting graph this morning. I think it was in the New York Times and it was, um, oh yeah, cause Harvard has done like a, a very, very long study on a lot, a lot of people about happiness. So all this data has come out of this, the happiness study at Harvard, I guess.

• 1:47:30Speaker 01

  Oh, and it's new?

• 1:47:31Dax Shepard?

  I think I'm getting that right. Well, in that there's always gonna be updates, right? Cause they've been studying them long term. So I'm sure there was revelations midway through the study. And so like, one of the fun revelations is like the, uh, income achievement level of all the people in the study. There are many. Was not influenced whatsoever by whatsoever by their IQ. There's like no, no correlation.

• 1:47:55Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 1:47:56Dax Shepard?

  So I love that one.

• 1:47:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:57Dax Shepard?

  It's like you thought you did shitty on IQ test, you didn't do good in school, doesn't mean shit.

• 1:48:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:02Dax Shepard?

  As far as just at least that, but anyways, in this, this, this um chart I saw, there's a very predictable curve for everyone's happiness. And the lowest point across the board, men and women, is like fifty, fifty-three. And then it just starts going up and up and up and it gets as high as it'll ever get your happiness in your sixties.

• 1:48:21Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:48:22Dax Shepard?

  Well, that's great news. I just kind of lived through or I'm currently living through the worst time. How, I can't even imagine how happy I'm gonna be in ten years. I was, I really liked this graph.

• 1:48:32Speaker 01

  Weird. Makes sense for women, cause menopause, I wonder why men?

• 1:48:38Dax Shepard?

  I think the stress of like, am I gonna make it? Can I support everyone? All that sits on your shoulder. You're getting a glimpse of like, you made it. You're gonna get across the finish line. Failure's off the table. You did it. You have a savings, you own your home, family's safe. I, I think a lot of the pressure that you put on yourself evaporates.

• 1:48:57Speaker 01

  Oh, you mean, oh, you're saying.

• 1:48:59Dax Shepard?

  Professionally.

• 1:48:59Speaker 01

  No, yeah, I guess I meant, why is it so low?

• 1:49:03Dax Shepard?

  In your fifties?

• 1:49:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:05Dax Shepard?

  Well, I think it's that, uh, as we would say, that inflection point between, I had this identity, go build, go create.

• 1:49:12Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:49:13Dax Shepard?

  Save, buy something, and then this little bit of a moment of like, and for what? Again, these are like, this is the broad arc of data, which is, most people in whatever their given profession is, generally, they hit their peak financial.

• 1:49:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:28Dax Shepard?

  Effectiveness in their fifties. That's when people get paid, whatever your chosen occupation was, that is where, it doesn't happen in your thirties or forties, it gen- generally happens in your fifties, so.

• 1:49:38Speaker 01

  And maybe.

• 1:49:38Dax Shepard?

  And then you're halfway through life, so you're depressed.

• 1:49:40Speaker 01

  That's what I was about to say. I bet maybe you're really like, age becomes very present when you turn fifty.

• 1:49:46Dax Shepard?

  And I'm halfway done and all I did was work. I think most people are looking at this moment going, I'm so sick of working.

• 1:49:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:53Dax Shepard?

  It didn't make me feel awesome. And, and I can't quit, cause I'm, they're finally paying me what I deserve and I gotta get paid this number. So they might be looking at like a ten-year out window before they're happy.

• 1:50:05Speaker 01

  They're waiting for social security, they are waiting a bit.

• 1:50:08Dax Shepard?

  Or just your, yeah, standard retirement age.

• 1:50:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, which I think normally, I think sixty-five's, yeah. But yeah, so that's really interesting.

• 1:50:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so my, like happiest years are like ahead of me and yours too.

• 1:50:21Speaker 01

  That's great. My saddest years are ahead of me too. I don't love that.

• 1:50:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:26Speaker 01

  I don't love, that's not great.

• 1:50:29Dax Shepard?

  That's not great.

• 1:50:30Speaker 01

  Okay. Um.

• 1:50:32Dax Shepard?

  They're just slightly like, the graphs are slightly like, the low point's a little different for women than the men.

• 1:50:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:38Dax Shepard?

  But in general, it's only off by a few years and it is the exact same curve, right? It's like, follows the same trajectory.

• 1:50:45Speaker 01

  Interesting. Also, part of it maybe is that on average, probably around that age, fifty, fifty-three, your kids are maybe leaving, not, not here, in this case, not in LA, but on average in the country, probably, that age, your kids might be heading out on their own.

• 1:51:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:05Speaker 01

  Um, that's depressing.

• 1:51:06Dax Shepard?

  Just gotten through the teenage years, which can be hard.

• 1:51:09Speaker 01

  Exactly. Huh, very interesting.

• 1:51:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. But all very, um, positive and optimistic.

• 1:51:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, great, okay. I can get through those three years.

• 1:51:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:20Speaker 01

  Who?

• 1:51:21Dax Shepard?

  Who can't?

• 1:51:21Speaker 01

  What will I do? Okay. His brother went to Georgia. I just wanted to say, go dogs.

• 1:51:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, go dogs.

• 1:51:28Speaker 01

  Go dogs.

• 1:51:28Dax Shepard?

  Been a big dogs day here in the, uh, in the garage.

• 1:51:30Speaker 01

  That's a.

• 1:51:31Dax Shepard?

  I don't like saying the garage. It doesn't have the same ring as attic.

• 1:51:34Speaker 01

  I say garage. We can't say attic.

• 1:51:36Dax Shepard?

  Well, we can't say attic, so we're not in the attic. But I wish garage had the same, and it should, garage band, garage beer, there's a lot of cool garage.

• 1:51:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:45Dax Shepard?

  But I don't know, I like.

• 1:51:47Speaker 01

  Well, the attic is very special.

• 1:51:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, the, very few people have like an attic space that they've made a clubhouse out of, but a garage.

• 1:51:54Speaker 01

  Probably a lot of people have garage podcasts.

• 1:51:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:51:58Speaker 01

  Oh, but this is where we are.

• 1:52:00Dax Shepard?

  We're in a garage, yeah.

• 1:52:01Speaker 01

  Now, you're probably upset about that because you're fifty, but I'm not.

• 1:52:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you haven't bottomed out yet. You're not at the nadir.

• 1:52:07Speaker 01

  That's right. Okay, his brother's name is John, in case anyone wants to look him up.

• 1:52:12Dax Shepard?

  I wonder if his brother's as cute as him if he's single.

• 1:52:15Speaker 01

  Um, let's see. He coaches, he's a coach.

• 1:52:21Dax Shepard?

  Hey, well, it's, most coaches are married, I think.

• 1:52:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so too. It doesn't say on his Wikipedia.

• 1:52:29Dax Shepard?

  I can text Andy and this.

• 1:52:30Speaker 01

  He's forty-nine.

• 1:52:31Dax Shepard?

  Okay, I thought it was.

• 1:52:33Speaker 01

  He's about to be depressed.

• 1:52:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:36Speaker 01

  Shit.

• 1:52:36Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:52:37Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:52:37Dax Shepard?

  Let me kick this down the road. You're, you're forty-eight and he's coming out the other side.

• 1:52:43Speaker 01

  What's the Happy Gilmore quote? He, he kinda like half said a Happy Gilmore quote. It's golf requires goofy pants and a fat ass.

• 1:52:54Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I don't even know that quote.

• 1:52:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's from Happy Gilmore.

• 1:52:57Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:52:58Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah, so he had the record for the fastest serve. But now it's Sam Groff and that's 163.

• 1:53:09Dax Shepard?

  No, 116.3.

• 1:53:10Speaker 01

  No, 163. He was 155.

• 1:53:12Dax Shepard?

  Oh, oh my God, it's at 163 now? You're right. I, he had maybe thrown by someone at 156, but now it's jumped to 163?

• 1:53:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. Was at a Challenger event, Challengers. I love that movie.

• 1:53:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, threesomes.

• 1:53:26Speaker 01

  I love that movie.

• 1:53:28Dax Shepard?

  Really hope you have a threesome one day with a couple of like real dream boats.

• 1:53:32Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 1:53:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, sounds so fun. Like a four hands massage.

• 1:53:36Speaker 01

  I mean, the threesome thing is just so interesting because again, it, it has to be so specific. It, it, for me, has to be two men.

• 1:53:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:46Speaker 01

  I find extremely attractive.

• 1:53:48Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:53:49Speaker 01

  And, um.

• 1:53:50Dax Shepard?

  But again, what I have found in my own experiments, you'll like one more than the other. And then, and then you're like, I kinda just wish I was with this one.

• 1:53:59Speaker 01

  Well, then why do you want this for me?

• 1:54:01Dax Shepard?

  Well, I still want it for you. It'd be fun.

• 1:54:03Speaker 01

  It sounds like a lot of anxiety.

• 1:54:08Speaker 01

  Well, maybe hopefully, best case, like they're good at different things.

• 1:54:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:54:13Speaker 01

  So then, it's very titillating.

• 1:54:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:17Speaker 01

  Okay, Honeydew, he said, is a chambrord, lemonade, gray goose sprite. He pretty, I think he pretty much nailed it.

• 1:54:26Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:54:27Speaker 01

  It is gray goose, lemonade, raspberry liqueurs, such a chambrord. Honeydew melon balls. This doesn't say sprite, but he's probably right. He knows his tennis.

• 1:54:38Dax Shepard?

  He seemed to know his shape, yeah.

• 1:54:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, I'm really excited.

• 1:54:41Dax Shepard?

  And you'll be seeing him next year at it.

• 1:54:42Speaker 01

  I'm excited to one day have this. Do you know why it's called Honeydew? Could you guess?

• 1:54:48Dax Shepard?

  I mean, deuce is part of tennis.

• 1:54:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, good job.

• 1:54:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:54:52Speaker 01

  It's a tennis term for a tied score of 40-40. That sounds like something that would come up in my minis.

• 1:54:57Dax Shepard?

  I've only heard deuce, I've never heard anyone call it honeydews, but that's great.

• 1:55:00Speaker 01

  Oh no, honey, cuz the honeydew melon.

• 1:55:02Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:55:03Speaker 01

  Okay, he said Mayor Dinkins changed the flight pattern so it wouldn't fly over the US Open. I thought that was so interesting for some reason.

• 1:55:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:55:10Speaker 01

  Um, and...

• 1:55:11Dax Shepard?

  Priorities.

• 1:55:12Speaker 01

  Um, is, that's so crazy, but it makes sense. Um, and, and yeah, he did it. Uh, changed the flight pattern of planes over the US Open in 1990 by negotiating with the Federal Aviation Administration, FAA, to reroute takeoffs from LaGuardia Airport to avoid the noise over Flushing Meadows Corona Park.

• 1:55:32Dax Shepard?

  Just on that day, I assume.

• 1:55:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. In exchange, the city agreed to pay the US Tennis Association up to $325,000 annually for excessive flyovers that occurred during the tournament.

• 1:55:43Dax Shepard?

  That's weird, they built in a penalty? It was like a favor, and then on top of it, I'm gonna penalize you if you violate it?

• 1:55:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's weird.

• 1:55:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Good for them, they had a good negotiator.

• 1:55:53Speaker 01

  Okay. Sil- silver being worse than bronze. Um, the silver medal complex, also known as silver medal syndrome. A psychological phenomenon where second-place finishers, silver medalists, often appear less happy than third-place bronze medalists because they engage in upward counterfactual thinking, focusing on what they could have done to achieve the first place rather than appreciating their accomplishment. In contrast, bronze medalists tend to focus on the alternative of finishing in fourth place or not receiving a medal at all, leading to a greater satisfaction with their outcome.

• 1:56:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So if your friend says I have SMS, don't think like, yeah, we all have SMS texting. Think they have silver medal syndrome.

• 1:56:36Speaker 01

  And then you can ask if they have SAD.

• 1:56:38Dax Shepard?

  Seasonal affected disorder.

• 1:56:39Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:56:41Dax Shepard?

  And then you can ask if they have UTI, urinary tract infection.

• 1:56:45Speaker 01

  And you should ask, because they might be struggling, like you are. Okay, I looked up the most expensive sports, cuz we started talking about how tennis is a lot of, there's a lot of meritocracy. We feel like it's pretty meritocratized.

• 1:56:58Dax Shepard?

  Meritocratic?

• 1:56:59Speaker 01

  I like meritocratized.

• 1:57:01Dax Shepard?

  Okay, it's nice, yeah, like democratized.

• 1:57:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. To participate at the highest levels, Formula One racing, equestrian sports, polo, and competitive sailing are among the most expensive sports in the world.

• 1:57:13Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, those have some pretty... Devastating built in costs.

• 1:57:18Speaker 01

  Exactly. These sports require massive investments in elite equipment, maintenance, logistics, and skilled personnel. Oh, also, high cost youth sports, ice hockey. Says the average annual cost of $2,583 per child.

• 1:57:33Dax Shepard?

  Ice hockey is rough because you gotta get ice time at places throughout the year when you're not by a frozen lake or if you live in any state without frozen lakes. Yeah, so ice time becomes really pricey.

• 1:57:44Speaker 01

  And then field hockey, ice hockey, those are youth. Now, this, it says elite level individual sports, golf.

• 1:57:52Dax Shepard?

  Is most expensive?

• 1:57:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, it says high end clubs can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars for a membership. Professional players pay for equipment, caddies, coaches, travel, and tournament fees which can exceed one million per year.

• 1:58:04Dax Shepard?

  One million per annum.

• 1:58:05Speaker 01

  What's that mean?

• 1:58:07Dax Shepard?

  A year.

• 1:58:08Speaker 01

  Per atom?

• 1:58:09Dax Shepard?

  Per annum.

• 1:58:10Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:58:11Dax Shepard?

  Don't you like, it's a gentle way to say.

• 1:58:12Speaker 01

  That was cool.

• 1:58:13Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, per annum.

• 1:58:14Speaker 01

  Uh, skiing is also on here, and boxing.

• 1:58:19Dax Shepard?

  Is, is affordable ones?

• 1:58:20Speaker 01

  No, those are high.

• 1:58:22Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:58:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, those are high.

• 1:58:23Dax Shepard?

  They don't have boxing rings on every corner in the city, but they do have parks.

• 1:58:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, training camps, sparring partners, and specialized coaching and nutrition.

• 1:58:32Dax Shepard?

  Nutrition.

• 1:58:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, that's interesting. Let me see, I think I got them all, but let me just double check.

• 1:58:39Dax Shepard?

  That's everything.

• 1:58:40Speaker 01

  That's everything for Andrew Roddick.

• 1:58:42Dax Shepard?

  We love him, we were charmed.

• 1:58:43Speaker 01

  Very charmed. Charmed, I'm sure. What is charmed, I'm sure?

• 1:58:49Dax Shepard?

  Charmed, I'm sure.

• 1:58:51Speaker 01

  I don't get it.

• 1:58:52Dax Shepard?

  It sounds like a sarcastic way to say you're charming.

• 1:58:55Speaker 01

  Is it like, okay, if, if you're talking to me and we're shaking hands, who says it? Like, who's charmed?

• 1:59:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I feel like I would have, I'd say it like, they were charmed, I'm sure.

• 1:59:09Speaker 01

  Of you? By you?

• 1:59:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, like, you're telling me, oh, and then I met so and so, charmed, I'm sure. They were? I don't know.

• 1:59:16Speaker 01

  I know, but normally it happens, I feel like, in a greeting. Like, in the old times. They would like greet each other and say, charmed, I'm sure. So are they talking about themselves? Like, I just charmed you, I'm sure?

• 1:59:27Dax Shepard?

  No, no. I think they're sure that they've been charmed by their guest.

• 1:59:31Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:59:32Dax Shepard?

  They're sure of it.

• 1:59:33Speaker 01

  It's bad grammar.

• 1:59:33Dax Shepard?

  They're like, let me check in, yeah, I feel charmed.

• 1:59:37Dax Shepard?

  I think that we owe it to everyone at the end of this ride to compile our 50 sexiest male guests.

• 1:59:47Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:59:48Dax Shepard?

  And I'm just saying that Andy's definitely on the list.

• 1:59:51Speaker 01

  50 feels like

• 1:59:53Dax Shepard?

  Too many?

• 1:59:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. You're the one that always wants me to reduce the list.

• 1:59:57Dax Shepard?

  But there'll be at that point, there'll be thou- there'll be over, you know, like 1,200 guests. To do 10 would be one percent, half a percent. Okay.

• 2:00:08Speaker 01

  You're telling me-

• 2:00:09Dax Shepard?

  What do you want to keep it to? 1%?

• 2:00:10Speaker 01

  Well-

• 2:00:11Dax Shepard?

  I could agree to that.

• 2:00:12Speaker 01

  It's either gonna be 10 or 100, cuz you don't let me do hundreds and you only let me do 10s.

• 2:00:20Dax Shepard?

  Okay, then it's gonna be the top 10 sexiest. He's still on the list.

• 2:00:25Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 2:00:26Dax Shepard?

  But man, you think of Carmelo Anthony, your pants exploded. You think of like- Brad Pitt? Brad Pitt, you think of-

• 2:00:33Speaker 01

  Matty?

• 2:00:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, there's a fuck-

• 2:00:35Speaker 01

  There's a lot.

• 2:00:36Dax Shepard?

  We've had some thoroughbreds trot through here.

• 2:00:38Speaker 01

  Alexander Skarsgård.

• 2:00:39Dax Shepard?

  Oh, boy.

• 2:00:40Speaker 01

  Dwyane Wade. Did you know I learned in my aunt's memorial, Kama Sutra, Kama-

• 2:00:48Dax Shepard?

  K U M A.

• 2:00:49Speaker 01

  Means, um, fun.

• 2:00:53Dax Shepard?

  Oh, sure.

• 2:00:54Speaker 01

  It means fun, like full of life. And now that makes sense, Kama Sutra, like fun sex.

• 2:00:59Dax Shepard?

  Sexual fun.

• 2:01:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:01Speaker 01

  I learned a lot.

• 2:01:01Dax Shepard?

  My favorite type of fun.

• 2:01:03Speaker 01

  All right.

• 2:01:03Dax Shepard?

  All right, love you.