India & Pakistan at War? | EYES ON GEOPOLITICS

Today Andy breaks down what is happening with India and Pakistan and whether it will escalate to a full fledged war. Support the show on Patreon:⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse New merch, patches, and stickers! ⬇️ https://theteamhouse-shop.fourthwall.com Find Mick Mulroy here: Fogbow ⬇️ https://fogbow.com/ Lobo Institute ⬇️ https://www.loboinstitute.org/ Twitter ⬇️ https://x.com/mickmulroy?s=21&t=-Ze3F_Ix2vlJ18KFvORTCA LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-patrick-mulroy-31198b52/ Bluesky ⬇️ https://bsky.app/profile/mickmulroy.bsky.social Mick’s publications ⬇️ https://www.loboinstitute.org/publications/publications-of-michael-mick-patrick-mulroy/ Find Andy Milburn here: Twitter ⬇️ https://twitter.com/i/flow/login?redirect_after_login=%2Fandymilburn8 LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewmilburn2023 Substack ⬇️ https://amilburn.substack.com/ Andy’s book ⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/When-Tempest-Gathers-Mogadishu-Operations Bluesky ⬇️ https://bsky.app/profile/andy-milburn.bsky.social Find Jason Lyons here: LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-lyons-666873316?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app Bluesky ⬇️ https://bsky.app/profile/bgsilverback73.bsky.soci Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

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• 1:41Speaker 03

  Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Eyes on Geopolitics. I'm here with Andy Milburn, Colonel Andy Milburn, retired. Right, you told me I gotta refer to you as Colonel, so.

• 1:54Speaker 04

  No one knows that.

• 1:55Speaker 03

  Yeah. Uh, I'm Demetri Kuntakos. Thanks for joining us. Do us a favor. Don't forget to like and subscribe. If you're listening to an audio rated five stars. And uh, check out our Patreon, patreon.com slash the team house. All right. Plugs out of the way. And Andy Milburn's book, When the Tempest Gathered, link is in the description. Uh, Andy, how are you first and foremost?

• 2:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm doing great. Just love life here in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

• 2:22Speaker 03

  Beautiful, sunny. I think it's probably very sunny Riyadh.

• 2:26Speaker 04

  Honey, very healthy. There's no alcohol.

• 2:29Speaker 03

  Oh, good.

• 2:30Speaker 04

  You live on a compound. There's no way to get into trouble here. So I'm doing very well. Thank you.

• 2:37Speaker 03

  Almost, almost like prison, but nicer, far nicer. Yeah. And you're getting paid. So it could be, it could actually be prison. Um, all right. So a lot happened last night. Uh, India hit back on uh, Pakistan. In uh, retaliation for the attack in Kashmir that killed 26 people.

• 2:59Speaker 03

  Islamist, uh, India saying it was Islamist militants in Kashmir.

• 3:06Speaker 03

  India hit Pakistan controlled Kashmir and they also hit like uh, Pakistan proper. They say it's all like militant groups, infrastructure and stuff like that. As far as we know right now, nine people have died.

• 3:20Speaker 03

  I'm sure it's more. Uh, Pakistan saying that they've shot down three, uh, it goes from three or five aircraft, uh, jets, you know, fourth generation plus fighters and drones. I don't know if that's been uh, confirmed. They have been since the retaliation been trading artillery. Uh, so what the fuck is gonna happen, Andy? I mean, is this gonna spiral out of control?

• 3:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, put it on my plate. Well, actually, I don't think it will. Dean, I'll, I'll get back to this. So just, you know, a little bit of background and. You know, I know we we're not supposed to insert ourselves into the story, Dean. You warn us about that all the time. I never warn you. But I'm I'm actually very, you know, I I mean, I've I've been to Trinidad three or four times. Some I'm probably one of the few Americans who has been there and I'm old enough to have been there before it was blocked off to tourists. I went there as a as a teenager twice and just love the most beautiful area in the foothills of the Himalayas.

• 4:27Speaker 04

  It's just extraordinary. The people there are wonderful too, you know, and needless to say, of course, it's very sad that it has been such a bone of contention between India and Pakistan, going back, as we talked about, to the nineteen forty nine partition. I'm sorry, forty seven partition. I was thinking of the birth of, I was thinking forty eight, forty nine, birth of Israel. Forty seven partition between the two countries. So here's here's what I am seeing right now, Dean. I could be absolutely wrong. And there's a lot of speculation in Twitter land.

• 5:08Speaker 04

  But but what I'm saying is this, that both countries are actually, despite the usual bellicose statements, both countries are kind of playing according to unwritten rules. All right? Yes, to your point, the the tit for tat, the the strikes have strayed out of Kashmir into areas of of Pakistan. But if you look at what the targets are and and you look at some of the photographs from the media, the aerial photographs, it does seem as though India is making an effort to avoid collateral damage.

• 5:51Speaker 04

  And who knows whether the reports of civilians being killed are true or not. But when you look at the photographs, it is individual houses or compounds that have been struck. And I think probably most of our listeners are aware of the problems that India has had with homegrown Pakistan or Pakistan supporting terrorist organizations, allegedly supporting terrorist organizations like Lashka.

• 6:21Speaker 04

  L E T, Lashkar Al Taib, right? I hopefully haven't mispronounced that L E T. And Jashar Muhammad. And those are two, and Lashkar L E T is the organization that launched the 2008 Bombay, Mumbai raid that resulted in several hundred dead civilians. And that was, there's actually a movie about that that I that I talked about. It's it was a very well planned raid and it was by all accounts commanded and controlled from L E T, by L E T in Pakistan. And then, you know, India has, there's been a number of attacks since then.

• 7:04Speaker 04

  And there have been a number of clashes since then in 2016 and in 2019. And and again now. And, you know, everyone is worried worried that here are two nuclear powers apparently on the verge of war. But let's look at a couple of things, okay? So I talked about the fact that these strikes seem to be quite limited. And Pakistan, for its part, has hit targets in in Kashmir. Pakistan is talking about now striking into India. Certainly has the capability to do that, has quite a missile array. And India, of course, has the ability to return that. But so far, the the targeting has been quite specific.

• 7:48Speaker 04

  And the other thing is kind of interestingly, so the Pakistan is reported that they've shot down between three to five Indian jets and a Heron drone. The Indians have clearly, I mean, not clearly, they've they they're admitting they've lost aircraft, although the photographs that are appearing on Twitter are from, they're not recent, they're from last year or back in 2019. But, you know, safe to say that the Indians lost aircraft, those aircraft actually crashed in India, raising speculation that they were, you know, these were accidents. But it's entirely possible that Pakistan shot them down. The Indians haven't actually been flying over Pakistani airspace.

• 8:31Speaker 04

  And when I talk about their attempts to limit actions, they've been Hoisting, launching, lofting missiles from the Indian side of the border towards Pakistan and so they may have been, you know, intercepted in the air over, but certainly they crashed in Indian territory. So I will pause there in case you have any questions and maybe I'm just being overly optimistic, but I don't see this going down the path to war. You know, they're neither, neither country stands to gain from this. It is true that Modi, who's the, you know, the, the Indian premier, he stands to gain,

• 9:13Speaker 04

  he's, he's got a tremendous, he was in the past tremendously popular in India, but there has been some dissatisfaction recently with him, not just over ethnic tensions, over a plateauing economy, which may not be entirely his fault, but he's getting blamed for that. And so he does benefit by rattling sabers at Pakistan, which he's happy to do from time to time, but it certainly doesn't benefit him to go to war. And, and you know, certainly although the populations of both countries have been brought up in this atmosphere of, I would say hatred, that's a strong word, but near enough towards the other country.

• 9:56Speaker 04

  And, and although both countries went to war, you know, 50 years ago, in a very bloody campaign over what became Bangladesh was then East Pakistan. Again, the, you know, the undercurrent of, the real undercurrent of feeling, if you're to look at reflections of India and Pakistan, social media is not, hey, let's go to war, let's bash them. It is a real concern that they will go to war and I think that that leaders will, will, will pay attention to that.

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• 14:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, let's, let's hope so.

• 14:21Speaker 04

  And then, you know, last we talked about, I believe it's 1998, there was perhaps the, the both countries came closest to the brink of fallout of war since they had been since 71. And there was open talk about nuclear preemption, both countries using nuclear weapons against the other. And apparently, you know, I only know this for sure on the Pakistani side, that there is a policy of preemptive strike. In other words, if they suspect that the other country is preparing to or threatening to, then they are authorized within their own kind of strategic doctrine to strike first with nuclear weapons, which is.

• 15:06Speaker 04

  Obviously concerning.

• 15:07Speaker 03

  Sure, yeah, and also giving command and control over to generals and stuff, sounds a bit wily coyote. It sounds a bit nuts to me.

• 15:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's more of a danger really on

• 15:21Speaker 04

  uh on the Pakistani side, so you know, one thing, and I would say US foreign policy has consistently

• 15:32Speaker 04

  fallen short, honestly, when it's come to Pakistan. And I know there's a large audience out there who is going to be horrified by me saying this, because we all remember that the Pakistanis supported, or the ISI at least, supported the Taliban in Afghanistan. I mean, that is no secret. They supported the Taliban, but not necessarily, you know, not Al Qaeda. And I think that's an important distinction. And needless to say, we created a lot of the problems in Afghanistan, to my opinion, you know, with the Taliban. And when we were always trying to get Pakistan on our side, we didn't

• 16:12Speaker 04

  we didn't recognize two things, that the Pakistani security forces themselves were taking heavy casualties from uh from Islamicists in the, in what they call the tribal provinces, you know, the border adjacent with Afghanistan. That was number one. Number two is that they supported the Taliban as a bulwark against India. And

• 16:40Speaker 04

  we, the United States, never really kind of recognized that. During the Cold War, we wanted, you know, we courted both countries. And then, of course, when the Russians invaded Afghanistan, we were all in on, in Afghanistan, and we were and we, with the full collaboration with the ISI, with the Pakistani intelligence services, were supporting the Mujahideen, of course, many of whom became, most of whom, you know, is the Pashtun fighters who subsequently became the Taliban. And of course, the Arab fighters with Osama bin Laden were a subset of that and became Al Qaeda.

• 17:21Speaker 04

  And there was a natural partnership that we, that occurred under our noses. And in fact, arguably, we helped forge. We also were the ones who

• 17:32Speaker 04

  Supporting, you know, the Pakistanis on condition that they supported the Mujahidin. So we created that bond between the ISI and the Taliban. And then subsequently turned around and blamed Pakistan for having that bond. You know, I mean, look, Pakistan is not blameless, of course. But I'm just saying that our own strategy towards Pakistan has been has been, at the very least, confusing. And so one other thing that is, I think, really concerning the Pakistanis, obviously, the threat of nuclear wars is concerning both countries. But the question of water rights, the, I believe it's called the Indus

• 18:15Speaker 04

  Indus River Agreement. Someone will correct me, I'm sure, in their comments. But the, basically, they, they're, you know, both countries, well, Pakistan's dependent on India to some extent for water supplies. And now, India is threatening to dam up its reservoirs and create a huge amount of silt, making the water that reaches Pakistan problematic, difficult to drink. And that is going to be difficult to use. That is, that is going to be a significant issue, too. So there are things that, that both countries, what India can do in particular to hurt Pakistan,

• 18:58Speaker 04

  that don't necessarily involve firing missiles and just go on generating this tension between them. And, yes, Pakistan, you know, I've, may sound quite supportive of Pakistan, but there's no doubt about it that there are extremist groups who have

• 19:20Speaker 04

  safe haven in Pakistan. And I mentioned two of them, LET and Jashel Mohammed. And both of those groups have conducted terrorist attacks, not just the Mumbai 2008 attacks, but consistently conducted attacks, not just in Trinidad, but in India, to killing Indian civilians. And so when India strikes into Pakistan, and this was the same in 2019, it always claims, and I think with some justification, that it is going off to these, these particular bases. Yeah, understandably so, I would think.

• 19:57Speaker 03

  Just uh, bring it back to the ISI, Pakistan ISI. I mean, could some, I mean, the hot, most high-profile terrorist was found living, you know, in the west point of Pakistan. You don't think there was any ISI help in terms of like getting uh Osama bin Laden?

• 20:18Speaker 04

  Oh, look, yeah, you know, I'm, I'm sure that there was collaboration at that stage. But and, and you've got to remember that by then there was, again, I'm not.

• 20:31Speaker 03

  I know you're not, I know you're not, yeah. I'm just saying like what a dummy would ask.

• 20:34Speaker 04

  We, you know, we, the United States antagonize from Pakistani point of view, okay? And I have, uh, you know, I had one uh friend, I actually went through the war college with, Marine Corps War College as a Pakistani general. So I, you know, I, I was able to see things a little bit from that side. And we had a very, very transactional, hard relationship with the Pakistanis. Uh, there were times when we fired into Pakistan, you know, I mean, you're probably aware of this. There were times when Pakistani soldiers were hit by US artillery fire. And I know we're going to get people popping up saying, well, there was a reason for that. Yes, I know. But the way that it was projected in Pakistan was US aggression.

• 21:19Speaker 04

  And the United States is very, very unpopular among the Pakistani population. A lot of that is, is due to propaganda. A lot of it is perception of uh US policy being anti-Pakistani or anti-Muslim. I understand that. And a lot of it is propagated, uh, not by, necessarily by the government, but by organizations in the media within Pakistan. Uh, so, yes, I have no doubt that, of course, Osama bin Laden couldn't have lived there for so long without some complicit uh help by the, by the Pakistani government.

• 21:58Speaker 04

  I'm just saying that we, the US, are not blameless in, in creating that very fraught relationship with, with Pakistan.

• 22:06Speaker 03

  Right. Yeah, I feel like we're not blameless in any front relationships we have all over the world, right? Like, uh, we always, there's takes two to tango, really. Um, I mean, just a little bit more, uh, what's going on like right now on the ground. There are tanks moving towards the Indian, Pakistani tanks moving towards the Indian border. I'm sure that could be just more saber rattling, just Pakistan showing that they are, you know, serious about this and they're not backing down. Uh, do you think Pakistan retaliates? Maybe a tick for tat like?

• 22:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, so you're saying there's, there's tanks moving towards the border on the Pakistani side.

• 22:43Speaker 03

  Correct. On the Pakistani side.

• 22:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's, uh, the Indian side, there is a, uh, state, it's Rajasthan, uh, which is the, yeah, the, the closest to Pakistan and they've gone on high alert there and, uh, closed airports, uh, but I don't know, you know, there, there hasn't been sign of movement. Uh, and unless I'm missing this, uh, large movement of ground forces, uh, towards there. But there has been fighting already along the line of control in Trinidad, which is the, you know, the, essentially the front line between the two countries. And, you know, there's kind of an agreement that what happens in Trinidad stays in Trinidad.

• 23:27Speaker 04

  So, so I think that both countries are going to be quite eager to, to keep it there. Uh, but they, yeah, there's been exchanges of artillery, there have been casualties on, on both sides. Um, not, you know, not yet direct, um, infantry fighting, but, but certainly artillery raids.

• 23:46Speaker 03

  Do you see there being a chance where Pakistan like sends like a couple dozen ballistic missiles into India?

• 23:54Speaker 04

  Uh, well, that, you know, that, that would be definitely an escalation. I mean,

• 23:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, you know, so, uh, Pakistan could portray it as not being an escalation, having said, hey, look, the- Indians have already struck Pakistani soil, but the Indians are making it very clear that when we did that, it was going after these specific terrorist targets. Notice, they they haven't struck the Pakistani military in Pakistan, and that is an important distinction to both sides. So for Pakistan to go after, say, Indian military targets in India, definitely an escalation. And and that is when it's certainly going to be concerning to you because Modi, as you, you know, you're probably aware, is he's populist, he's a nationalist. Remember

• 24:44Speaker 04

  the, you know, the problems the Canadians have had with him over assassinating a Sikh activist in Canada, and the Indians just didn't back down on that, you know, it's basically, hey, who gives a shit whether you disagree with it or not. I mean, it was very clear that they did that. So, you know, and it's, he's not going to want to lose face. So it's difficult to tell, you know, the Pakistanis, though, will understand this too. And it's going to be, you know, they're both playing brinksmanship, because they're both playing to our home audience. Right. And it may be, it may be, and I'm not saying necessarily true, that on the Pakistani

• 25:25Speaker 04

  side, you know, where the military is concerned, because the, you know, the, what's, what's the saying that Pakistan, in, in, in most countries, you know, the most democratic countries, you have, they'll have a military, but in Pakistan, it's a case of the military having a country. And, you know, there's some truth in that. I mean, no civilian government in Pakistan has survived without support of the military. But my point is, the strength there may be that, is they don't have to play to a civilian population to get reelected.

• 26:02Speaker 04

  And, you know, I, and Pakistani military is, as aggressive as though maybe sounding, certainly don't want to plunge their country into war. And just a reminder for everyone, India is far bigger than Pakistan. Right. So, I mean, it would be a tremendously bloody, costly, pointless war for both countries, but Pakistan would be liable to emerge from this the worst.

• 26:32Speaker 03

  So what are like, what's the international community in like the US, I guess, more uh doing to like, kind of pull these guys back and like, you know, talk a little bit more sense and have everybody just relax a little bit?

• 26:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's the other concerning thing. So normally, you know, previously and not always with uh with a great deal of effectiveness, but the United States has stepped up at the plate to try and mediate. And in nineteen seventy-one, it was Kissinger who did make a determined effort to try and prevent that war, but he was distracted, obviously, by other things such as Vietnam, the invasion of Cambodia, relations with China. Uh, but, um, but, you know, in, in, in more recent years, yeah, it's been the United States that's kind of led the the charge on trying to negotiate and calm things down. I haven't really seen that, you know, there's been a little bit of a

• 27:31Speaker 04

  uh, you know, Rubio has um uh, he's, he's commented about it, uh, and he's he, uh, India's briefed him, he said, um, but there doesn't seem to be a very concerted effort to try and defuse the crisis. And it's really, it's not clear whether the United States has the appetite or capacity to do so. And I know the president said, uh, it's a shame, you know, they've been fighting for many, many decades, but that's not quite the same as as reaching out to both leaders and saying, hey, knock it off.

• 28:09Speaker 03

  Yeah. I know you're not a, like, you know, you didn't work in the State Department, really, but what happens when there's no ambassadors to both countries? Like, who, who's who's kind of taking the lead on this? Because, yeah, all right, you could talk to the Secretary of State, blah, blah, blah, but like, who's doing like the on the ground stuff?

• 28:27Speaker 04

  Well, no one's doing it right now.

• 28:29Speaker 03

  Nobody, it's just not.

• 28:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, I don't know where we stand with regard to ambassadors to India and Pakistan. I know you had.

• 28:37Speaker 03

  We have none. Oh, last time Louis Rita.

• 28:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, what did he have to say on that?

• 28:43Speaker 03

  He said, I mean, Louis, God bless him. I love Louis. He's got a bit of a pessimistic view on stuff. He says, no one's doing anything really. Uh, cause I asked him about like, what's this like, see what it like, look into like what a CIA station or or a state or an embassy is like doing. He's like, listen, they're talking to their contacts, but there really probably isn't much direction.

• 29:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, I think he's, I, I think he's absolutely right. And but I honestly, I think India and Pakistan are going to sort this out. You know, India has said, I again, with some justification and I'm playing the straight down the middle that it strikes were focused and measured and non-escalatory, uh, you know, pointing out that it hasn't struck the Pakistan military, economic or civilian targets. But what it calls known terror camps, and I think that's a fair statement. And you know, Pakistan could respond with a retaliatory strike with, I mean, Pakistan's got a large diverse arsenal of cruise and ballistic missiles, which you could fire into India without

• 29:49Speaker 04

  requiring jets to to cross the border. It could do that, but it hasn't done that yet. And I think it's because despite all the heated rhetoric, Pakistan's likely to choose the scale and nature of its response with with a lot of care. And doing, you know, enough to placate its own populace by saying, look what we're doing and restore a modicum of deterrence, uh, but but without escalating the crisis. I mean, I think beneath the rhetoric, that's what you see from both the countries.

• 30:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I guess that's a good, that's a great thing.

• 30:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, you know, and uh, uh, just looking in Twitter land, the Indian army is already declaring kind of victories, saying, uh, justice is served.

• 30:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, I saw that.

• 30:35Speaker 04

  So.

• 30:36Speaker 03

  That's the thing, like, how does it play to their populace, right? Like, at least someone, people have to save face. And I mean, I guess it does make sense that India, it was more of a measured kind of retaliation. It took, you know, three weeks, right? They didn't start shooting missiles into Pakistan or Pakistan Kashmir. You know, a couple of days after, um. So, yeah, I hope, I hope it could just be like a, you know, proportional on each side and like, you know. Let's just go back to like, really, actually, we still hate each other, but let's not kill each other.

• 31:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, I mean, I, I do believe that's what we're gonna see. And, uh, you know, I hope I'm not, I'm not proven incorrect.

• 31:16Speaker 03

  What's funny is Louis last, last week actually said that, uh, he's read, he's had, they've had weather models and reports done, surveys that if Pakistan and India had a nuclear exchange of just 25% of their arsenal.

• 31:33Speaker 03

  It, depending on the winds and stuff like that, it could have, like, seriously fuck up not only the world, but like the United, I mean, because we live here, so we care about it more, I guess, but it could like, kill crops in the United States, cause millions of people to die in the US, because it'll get all the way to the West Coast from from where India and Pakistan are, which is, you know, insane to actually think about, um. Hopefully, like you said, and I'm trusting you, it doesn't go down. And watch, once we sign off here, it's gonna be Pakistan, you know, shoots 20 fucking ballistic missiles into India, knock on wood, I hope it doesn't, but.

• 32:12Speaker 04

  No, I mean, I, I put money on it. I think we're gonna see de-escalation over the, the next few days, which is good, because there's you know, that's what the world needs more of, right? Is de-escalation.

• 32:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 32:27Speaker 03

  Um, when is your Andy, if you guys don't know, Andy's writing a new book about the conflict and the war going on in Gaza. Uh, when is that coming out? Do you have any idea?

• 32:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's gonna come out towards the end of this year. I know that sounds a little bit vague, but that's that's my publisher can can tell me. And it was, you know, honestly, I, I mean, it's been a tough book to write, as you can imagine. I spent considerable time in in Israel and I mean, all over. And, um, you know, I wanted to be, you know, I paused because that fair doesn't seem quite the right term, but I wanted to, I, I wanted to be absolutely accurate. I wanted to tell absolutely accurate story from both sides. You know, why, why did this happen? Why was Hamas able to conduct these attacks? But why did Hamas plan the attacks? You know,

• 33:22Speaker 04

  what, what was some of the, the background to this? And not, not all of this has been in the papers, by the way. And, and, you know, so I found, I was very fortunate in that I had a number of contacts who are not trying to be mysterious, you know, who, who I can't name in the book, uh, but who had a tremendous amount of knowledge about the background, uh,

• 33:48Speaker 04

  from both, but from both, you know, points of view. And, uh, and so, yes, you know, what, how did Hamas plan the attacks? What's the detail that went into these planning? How did they prepare for it? Some of this is astonishing material. It really is. Uh, and

• 34:04Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 34:18Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant. So I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 34:29Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 34:35Speaker 08

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 34:40Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At The Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At The Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

• 35:00Speaker 10

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 35:28Speaker 04

  Then, you know, why, why was Israel lulled into this sense of complacency? And, you know, we talked a lot about it being an intelligence failure, but it was really a failure of imagination, you know, because the, the intelligence was there. Admittedly, a lot of the collection methods had been, had been steadily shut down because of, partly because of policy and partly because of complacency. But it, but the, you know, the science was certainly there. Why were they ignored? And perhaps more importantly, you know, as an operations guy, I'm not an intel guy. And so I know enough as an operations guy, you don't rely on intel to give you an early warning because very simply stated, all, all

• 36:12Speaker 04

  successful attacks rely on surprise, right? So you're always, you've always got to be on your guard. And there was an entire division, the Gaza Division, that was focused on containing Gaza and a number of missteps, both, you know, again, policy intelligence and, and the operational side. And then, you know, the, the attacks themselves, the performance of the IDF from responding to those attacks were quite, I, I think the, were part of the most shocking, not, not the most shocking, but were, were part of the, the impact of the story to the Israeli public for whom the IDF had always been this kind of iconic.

• 36:56Speaker 04

  Institution to find out how seriously they failed, not just in the lead up to the attacks, but on the day of the attacks. And then subsequently, uh, in, in a number of ways, and really, you know, realization that they had a kind of a, a two-tier army. They had an army that was technologically very savvy, very good, considered itself very good at targeting, had, um, a very, some very good units, and yet the rank and file, the quality of the rank and file, the, you know, the regular infantry units had plummeted considerably. And that's, you know, I'm, I'm jumping a little bit into the book here, but Yeah, yeah.

• 37:36Speaker 04

  Look at the huge number of casualties, of civilian casualties in Gaza, and there are a number of complex reasons for that. Uh, but one of the reasons is simply that the, you know, the IDF couldn't trust their infantry to go in and do, for instance, what we did in Fallujah. Uh, I mean, you, you know, I was gonna say, you probably remember Fallujah, you were a kid then, but you know, having, for my way through Fallujah, um, we made mistakes, we made a lot of mistakes. But we didn't, we didn't annihilate everything in our path. We had to go in and clear buildings time after time after time. And anyone who pushes back on that, I would, I would challenge,

• 38:18Speaker 04

  that is not the way that the IDF approached Gaza. You know, they, as you saw, it was kind of a scorched earth policy. They would Right. places, very, very heavy reliance on fire support. Uh, and, and that's kind of what you do when you have second-rate infantry is you have, you know, I'm not saying they had to do that. I'm saying that's what you find yourself doing. Uh, the very few, you know, set for that special operations units, uh, who, as I said, were very good. They, very, very few incidents where soldiers had to go into a building and clear rooms the way we did in Fallujah. And by the way, I don't advocate that at all. You know, I mean, there are smarter ways to do that. You can do it now with drones, you can do it with unmanned, uh, vehicles, but

• 39:02Speaker 04

  it, uh, but certainly, you know, they say there's a lot of, lot of, uh, parts to this story, and that's been one of the, the hardest parts about.

• 39:14Speaker 04

  About making this much more than just a narrative of massacre and reaction. You know, a story really about why it happened and why it happened the way that it did without becoming too analytical and the same time keeping the narrative going. It's been it's been a challenge. Tested my limited writing skills to.

• 39:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. It sounds like it's going to be a very

• 39:44Speaker 03

  interesting story because we just it's just in it. We're inundated with stuff. So it's really good to like kind of hone in on why why it happened and what was the reasoning behind it.

• 39:54Speaker 03

  IDF like in terms of like second day, second rate infantry is it just because they're all conscripts and not all professionals soldiers?

• 40:03Speaker 04

  All right. It's a number of a number of reasons. So you know, you have to you might have to remember that you know, back in and I heard this time and time again, you know, the last time that Israel was surprised so badly was in 1973. In fact, almost to the day 50 years before in the Yom Kippur War, but the the triumph of that war from an Israeli standpoint was that the IDF recovered and did so incredibly quickly. I mean, the majority of their casualties in that war were in the first 48 72 hours and they mobilized a huge number of reservists, threw them into the line and they performed admirably.

• 40:46Speaker 04

  That was not the case in this case, as you are probably seeing a lot of the investigations now coming out. So there's an just Andy Milvan talking about what happened on 7 October is really investigations are revealing it again and again that the IDF failed in to protect civilian communities for a number of reasons, you know, not having a quick reaction force. Not, you know, not, not being aggressive enough. There were kibbutzes where the the army waited outside while the inhabitants were being slaughtered. I mean, this is this is almost incomprehensible. A beach assault where Hamas.

• 41:27Speaker 04

  Fighters, a small group of them, by the way, eight of them stormed the shore and killed something like twenty civilians in Zakeem Beach. And there was a, you know, patrol, an Israeli patrol, we didn't even engage them. You know, I mean, it's.

• 41:42Speaker 03

  Why not?

• 41:44Speaker 04

  Well, who knows? Who knows? You know, lack of initiative, lack of aggression, lack of courage. I mean, I'm gonna get vilified for saying this. I don't know. I don't know the answer, but you can, if you doubt what I'm saying, you can read the investigations in the Israeli papers about what what happened. Now, don't get me wrong, there were lots of incidents of where individuals and units showed great courage on the day. Uh, but there was a total breakdown of command and control. Uh, you know, and this is, and and a lot of commanders who who just seemed to lack the initiative or aggression to do what they were supposed to do. And that is why partly the story of why so many civilians died on the day.

• 42:25Speaker 04

  And it's, um, you know, it's really public, it's, uh, it's a hugely shocking revelation.

• 42:33Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm really looking forward to this book. I'd love an advanced copy, please. Thank you.

• 42:39Speaker 04

  Uh, yeah, well, just get me on the, get me on your, uh, show, The Team House.

• 42:44Speaker 03

  I'll try. I'll figure it. I'll talk to somebody. We could probably fit you in.

• 42:48Speaker 04

  I know it's the kind of the second tier, uh, podcast in your repertoire.

• 42:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, a little side project, The Team House. Um, okay, so India and Pakistan are not going to trade nuclear weapons, which is always a plus. I feel like that's good, hopefully.

• 43:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 43:07Speaker 03

  Yeah. Um.

• 43:10Speaker 04

  So the the only other things that I would talk about, and just in passing, you know, while all this is going on, all right? And you know how I feel about Russia's peace overtures, but Russia again stonked Kiev with four ballistic missiles and hundred and forty drones. Uh, overnight, is last night or the night before? I'm losing track. I'm seven hours ahead of you guys, so it must have been the night before.

• 43:35Speaker 04

  And, um, you know, Zelensky's called for stronger sanctions to on Russia to pave the way to diplomacy. And I don't know if anyone's going to listen to him. And, uh, you know, there is going to be a supposedly three day ceasefire. Uh, the Russians have said in commemoration of, uh, what they call Victory Day, what we call Victory in Europe Day, which is nine May. And, uh, so we'll see, you know, where, where that goes.

• 44:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, no shit. Cause they don't want to fucking some Ukrainian drone blown up their fucking dais.

• 44:09Speaker 04

  And, and in fairness, you know, Ukraine has attacked Moscow with drones for the third consecutive night, which is quite a, you know, you know.

• 44:16Speaker 03

  If I'm the SBU, that's what I'm aiming for.

• 44:19Speaker 04

  Um, but in fairness too, when you look at, yes, uh, undoubtedly, I am sure that some of these strikes in the Moscow have killed civilians and, uh, but at the same time, very these, the Ukrainian strikes in the Moscow are very clearly deliberately aimed at, at, uh, military or, uh, uh, political, you know, command and control type targets. And, uh, uh, but certainly they must have a, uh, quite an effect on Russian morale. And, you know, hitting, hitting the capital and they seem to enrage Putin, which is a good thing.

• 44:55Speaker 03

  There is some word that Putin's Putin was thinking about not going to the parade.

• 45:02Speaker 04

  Well, he has always been extremely paranoid about his personal safety. I mean, incredibly. So, you know, even during COVID, he was terrified of catching COVID and it resulting in his demise.

• 45:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:15Speaker 04

  So he, yes, he makes himself a very, very hard target and doesn't announce his appearances and sometimes simply doesn't appear. Who knows?

• 45:24Speaker 03

  I mean, listen, that's gotta be a propaganda win for the Ukrainians. If he's not even showing up, if he doesn't show up, even if he's contemplating it, they should be projecting this everywhere and everywhere.

• 45:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, but I mean, but you're, you're right, Dee. But in the end, the one thing, and then this is a very complex question. We'd have to get your Russianologists on to talk about it, but it's, it, it's really difficult to determine how.

• 45:56Speaker 04

  How shoddy or bad, you know, what effect it has on the war or policy or anything. Right. They show the Russians how, what a shitty government they have. They, I mean, they know it. You know, look at the slaughter in Ukraine. Look at how many soldiers they are losing every day. I mean, it's just phenomenal. They are, they are losing. They're losing as many soldiers just in Ukraine. And you can look this up. I know I keep saying that, but I'm very careful with my statistics. They're losing as many soldiers as the combined allied armies lost in Normandy every day. All right. Much smaller force.

• 46:38Speaker 04

  Uh, and so it is just staggering. And yet you don't hear about things like fraggings, right? Of, of soldiers rebelling or shooting their officers. It, it's, it's just an extraordinary atmosphere. And I think it's partly cultural, historical, that they are just inured to suffering. And it's a very, you know, it's a very sad comment, but it, it really, the effect. So I guess what I'm saying is whether you're talking soldiers or civilians, there doesn't seem to be a correlation between low morale and affecting policy. And it was even, it was even better in Soviet days, arguably, because you remember the end of the,

• 47:22Speaker 04

  you know, the Afghan war in part was brought about by pressure on Gorbachev from within his party. And notably by a, a group of, or a political lobbying group formed by mothers of soldiers in Afghanistan. And, and the war was extremely unpopular. And yet the Russians suffered a, what, 15,000 killed? You know, that's, that's a few days in Ukraine. I mean, it's a

• 47:50Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 48:04Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to, I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 48:15Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you, you're not alone.

• 48:21Speaker 08

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 48:26Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At The Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At The Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

• 48:46Speaker 10

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A plus by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 49:14Speaker 04

  Couple of weeks in Ukraine without exaggeration. And they, and, but that, that made it, the Afghan, that made it, that put enough pressure on Gorbachev. And of course, he was dealing with a ton of other things by 1989, believe it is. Yeah. But to, to pull that off. And you just don't see that in modern day Russia. Not at all, at all. Um. So the only other, as we, you know, wrap up, what's going on with the, the Truman? You know, another F-18 overboard. Yeah. And, um, you know, I know that I saw that meme on, I sent you that meme of. The cat pushing the.

• 49:56Speaker 04

  No, no, the Chinese broadcasters saying, you know, the. Oh, yeah. The Americans throw their airplanes in the water when they're done with it. So, so wasn't, I think the CEO of the Truman was relieved, right? So they, he's got, he was relieved because they had. Wasn't he relieved? Uh.

• 50:17Speaker 03

  Months ago. Yeah, yeah.

• 50:19Speaker 04

  Yeah. So, so this is a new CEO. I think his name is Hill and I feel for him because what seems to be going on, I mean, you can't point to necessarily the bad leadership. I mean, they'd lost one F eighteen to, it was shot down by another ship, right?

• 50:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:36Speaker 04

  And then they lost one the other day, which was.

• 50:39Speaker 03

  In the hangar.

• 50:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, which was clearly, I didn't know. I mean, it was just with bad training, bad. I mean, it was just clearly incompetence, right? Where they just pushed it overboard.

• 50:49Speaker 03

  Yeah. And. Well, there's also talk that it was avoiding, trying to avoid a missile or a drone or something. When the second.

• 51:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, the second one, it's supposedly it was swerving to miss something.

• 51:04Speaker 04

  No, it's being towed.

• 51:06Speaker 03

  No, I'll tell. All right, whatever. We'll.

• 51:08Speaker 04

  We'll see when the investigation comes out. I think that's.

• 51:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:12Speaker 04

  So the third one, but this seems to be a tactical failure, right? I mean, it was a catapult.

• 51:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:17Speaker 04

  It was, it wasn't catapulted hard enough off the deck, I guess. So, which I guess, I suppose does get back to procedures and maintenance and all those things that gets back. So certainly, yeah, but it's not, it's not covering the Navy with glory out there.

• 51:32Speaker 03

  I mean, listen, ever since we've lost like how many drones since we started hitting Houthis in March fifteenth? You know, twenty drones, twenty eight Reaper MQ nines.

• 51:43Speaker 04

  Thirty million bucks apiece.

• 51:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, and three Super Hornets that are sixty million bucks apiece.

• 51:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 51:50Speaker 03

  And, yeah. And still the Houthis were able to hit Ben Gurion Airport and stuff like that and.

• 51:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, not even, not even a superpower and they got.

• 52:01Speaker 03

  Right.

• 52:01Speaker 04

  They got one through one of the most sophisticated anti-missile systems in the world. Missile defense systems.

• 52:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, and there's some, it was funny because Trump announced that some kind of ceasefire between us and the Houthis. And literally, once he announced it, about an hour later, they were still trying to hit ships in the in the Red Sea, our ships in the Red Sea, like our military ships. So I don't know where we go from.

• 52:27Speaker 04

  Uh, yeah, I mean, hard to tell how determined an effort. Yes, supposedly. Actually, it was a Truman, wasn't it, that they?

• 52:32Speaker 03

  I think, yeah.

• 52:34Speaker 04

  So I guess the Truman has had some luck at least.

• 52:37Speaker 03

  Yeah. Also, at the same pace, like, how much does it cost? How much is a SM6 fucking missile cost compared to, you know, thirty thousand dollar drones? You know, fourth, I think it's four and a half million dollars.

• 52:51Speaker 04

  Well.

• 52:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, so.

• 52:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, you know, ballistic missile, I mean, I'm sorry, drone, defending against drones is a very unne- financially unequal flight. I mean, you just have to gain that. For instance, in in Israel with the Iron Dome system and you know, Patriot system in against, you know, we've used Patriots, the Saudis have used Patriots and, you know, each one of those projectiles is what a million bucks. And again, you're dealing with a drone that at the most costs a few thousand dollars.

• 53:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, um, so there we go. What else you got, Andy? Anything?

• 53:31Speaker 04

  No, that is all, Dee, and I, and you, the audience will be very relieved to hear.

• 53:37Speaker 03

  Guys, don't, don't freak.

• 53:39Speaker 04

  Back in in a few days.

• 53:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, we'll be back over the weekend with the full crew. Guys, don't forget to check out Andy's book, When the Tempest Gathers, incredible book. Andy's writings and everything, links will be in the description. If you want Andy Milburn, links will be in the description. Mick Mulroy, of course, Jason Lyons. Any and all info of our hosts, the links are in the description. My links are not in the description. I don't want you to find me.

• 54:05Speaker 03

  Do us, what I do want, what I do need and would very much appreciate is going to patreon.com slash the team house. You get ad free versions and early access to both Izon and the team house. If you join at our ten dollar level, we will send you a patch. As what you get all those other benefits plus the patch. And you just helped support the show. And we appreciate it. Thanks, Andy. This is great.

• 54:30Speaker 04

  Well, thank you. Bye, everyone. Good night.

• 54:34Jack Murphy?

  Hey guys, it's Jack. I just want to talk to you for a moment about how you can support the show if you've been watching it, enjoying it, but you'd like to get a little bit more involved and help us continue to do this. You can check out our Patreon. It is patreon.com/the Team House. And for $5 a month, you can get access to all of these episodes of The Team House ad-free. The same goes with our affiliated podcast Eyes On with Andy Milburn, Jason Lyons, McMulroy. That one, you will also get all of those episodes ad-free. And you support the channel and the show, and we really appreciate it. The Patreon members are literally what

• 55:14Jack Murphy?

  has helped this company, this small business survive, especially during our early years. And you are what continues to help this thing going even as we navigate the turbulent world of YouTube advertising. So we really appreciate all of you guys. There's going to be a link down in the description to that Patreon page. And there is also going to be a link to our new merch shop. So if you guys want to go and get some Team House merchandise, we got stickers, and we also have patches. And I should mention, if you sign up for Patreon at $10 a month, we will mail you this patch as well. So we really appreciate that. But they're also for sale on the merch shop. And additionally, they got t-shirts up there,

• 55:59Jack Murphy?

  water bottles, a tote bag, coffee mugs, all that good stuff. So please go and check them out and support the show. We really appreciate it, guys. Thank you.

• 56:12Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 56:27Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 56:38Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 56:43Speaker 08

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 56:49Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 57:08Speaker 09

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 57:48Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 58:03Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 58:14Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 58:19Speaker 08

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 58:25Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 58:45Speaker 10

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 59:23Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 59:38Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 59:49Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 59:54Speaker 08

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:00:00Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat, it's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

• 1:00:19Speaker 09

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:00:59Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:01:14Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:01:25Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 1:01:30Speaker 08

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 1:01:36Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat, it's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

• 1:01:56Speaker 09

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• 1:02:27Speaker 00

  She's been thinking about this sleepover all week, but I think about her food allergies all the time. Fortunately, her doctor prescribed Zolair, omalizumab. It's proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens.

• 1:02:40Speaker 01

  Zolir 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people one year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods. While taking Zolir, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Zolir. Zolir may cause a severe, life-threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Zolir should not be used for the emergency Treatment of allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. ZOLAR is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection, or hardened circulation problems have been reported. Please see zolar.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about ZOLAR.

• 1:03:23Speaker 01

  This is an advertisement for ZOLAR, paid for by Genentech and Novartis.

• 1:03:26Speaker 09

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