#2335 - Dr. Mary Talley Bowden

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden is a board-certified Otolaryngologist, Sleep Medicine specialist, and founder of BreatheMD: a direct-care ENT practice in Houston, Texas. In addition, she is a senior fellow with the Independent Medical Alliance (formerly FLCCC), the founder of Americans for Health Freedom, and also serves on the board of the Vaccine Safety Research Foundation.www.breathemd.org https://posthillpress.com/book/dangerous-misinformation-the-virus-the-treatments-and-the-lies Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  All right, very nice to meet you.

• 0:14Speaker 03

  Nice to meet you.

• 0:15Joe Rogan?

  I have, I saw you on the Danny Jones Podcast and I've read a lot of your tweets and Twitter and just the entire ordeal that you've been through since the beginning of COVID. And so I felt like it could be very educational for people to hear your perspective.

• 0:36Speaker 03

  Well, I appreciate you continuing to talk about COVID because I think a lot of people are sick of it. I'm certainly ready to move on.

• 0:44Joe Rogan?

  I am too, but it's just, people need to make sure this doesn't happen again.

• 0:50Speaker 03

  Exactly. And nothing's happened, really. Nothing's been corrected.

• 0:53Joe Rogan?

  No. Not only has nothing been corrected, I was just watching an argument on television where they were trying to argue for vaccinating women who are pregnant.

• 1:03Speaker 03

  Oh, right. It's insane. I mean, there's a, there's a golden rule of pregnancy, right? You don't, you don't experiment on pregnant women. You don't experiment on an unborn child.

• 1:14Joe Rogan?

  You're not even supposed to eat sushi.

• 1:16Speaker 03

  Exactly. Right. But we're going to put this modified mRNA technology into these women who, you know, early treatment, we have early treatment. COVID is no longer a threat. We're dealing, you know, at one point, it was more than a cold, but not now. Why in the world would we give them to pregnant women or children?

• 1:35Joe Rogan?

  The only thing that makes sense is money.

• 1:37Speaker 03

  Right. Well, in ego, in ego, and...

• 1:40Joe Rogan?

  Ego, meaning because they've already recommended it because they don't want to admit that it's not effective, they don't want to admit their side effects.

• 1:48Speaker 03

  I mean, we have, we have hard facts showing it should be pulled off the market. I mean, any other product would have been pulled a long time ago. If this were an antibiotic and we'd seen all of the carnage from an antibiotic, it would have been yanked off long ago. It should have been yanked off in the first month. There's just, there's no other explanation than there's just, there's fraud, there's corruption, there's ego, there's money. But it's not science.

• 2:14Joe Rogan?

  No, and there's a lot of people that...

• 2:19Joe Rogan?

  For whatever reason, they have this very rigid ideology that the pharmaceutical drug companies are to be trusted and we should trust the science and that all these organizations, whether it's the FDA or whatever it is that's connected to these assertions, they should be trusted, not just the average doctor who's talking about these side effects and all these different things that they're experiencing with their patients.

• 2:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I trusted them when the pandemic started. I mean, I didn't think that the shots would work necessarily, but I trusted them. I didn't think they were going to hurt us.

• 2:53Joe Rogan?

  Why didn't you think they would work?

• 2:54Speaker 03

  Because they were rushed to the market. I knew the flu shots were already iffy. We're dealing with a virus that mutates. We've never been able to vaccinate against a cold, which, you know, it's a rapidly mutating virus. It's been tried before and it's failed.

• 3:10Joe Rogan?

  If you don't mind, please tell everybody what your background is in medicine.

• 3:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm private practice, solo physician. I'm not head of the Mayo Clinic. I'm just a, you know, neighborhood ear, nose and throat doctor that sort of got tangled up in this inadvertently. And I always thought, when the pandemic started, I thought, well, this will be the hospital. This will be a chaos in the hospitals. I never envisioned getting wrapped up in this at all. I, you know, I trained at Stanford and then I moved to Texas after residency. And then I worked in a small, private practice for seven, eight years. Then I started having a bunch of children and I pretty much gave up medicine. I mean, I took a seven-year sabbatical. I wasn't even sure I was going to go back, but then

• 3:59Speaker 03

  I just had this itch that needed to be scratched and I opened up a solo practice six months before the pandemic started.

• 4:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy. What timing.

• 4:07Speaker 03

  I know. Why? Why did I do it?

• 4:10Joe Rogan?

  You could have been out.

• 4:12Speaker 03

  I know.

• 4:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, sometimes the universe has a calling for people, you know?

• 4:19Speaker 03

  It's been a very interesting journey. I mean.

• 4:22Joe Rogan?

  So, take us through what happened with you at the very beginning. Like, so COVID, COVID starts making its way across the world.

• 4:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I had people coming in with respiratory tract infections that were stubborn. They were not, you know, the typical colds. And there was all this, you know, news that there's this virus from China. But, you know, you watch something on the news, you think, oh, you know, that's not going to really affect me. But, you know, I started having more and more patients coming in. And at first, I really didn't know what to do. I just used common sense. I mean, I treated the symptoms. I used breathing treatments. I, I covered for secondary infection with antibiotics. I used steroids, that sort of thing. And I had success, but I didn't have a lot of people, you know, showing up at my doorstep treating me for COVID. But I did start having people wanting to get tested. And you might remember that LabCorp was the first lab in the country to offer the test.

• 5:17Speaker 03

  And they just got completely slammed. So it took two weeks to get the results back. We were already work, I was already working with a lab for patients with chronic sinusitis, who, they were doing PCR testing for chronic sinusitis. So it tests for bacterial and fungal infections of the sinuses. It's called Microgen DX. And they came out with a saliva test for COVID. So, and we were able to get the results back the next day. So I started offering that and my little clinic exploded because, and I'm located in a strip mall, which is, is very purposeful. I'm, I'm very close to the medical center, which is, you know, to get your doctor's office. It's a 10-minute navigation of the parking garage and another 10-minute walk to the office.

• 6:02Speaker 03

  And so I was trying to locate my office where it was very easy to get in and out of. And then that served me very well during the pandemic because with these saliva tests, you could just take the cup to somebody's car. They could spit in the cup. They could leave it outside. It was contact-free. You didn't have to shove up your nose. And then we got the results back the next day. And so that sort of made me, put me on the map in my little neighborhood. And then I started tracking, you know, who, when the vaccines came out, I started tracking who was positive, you know, by their vaccination status. And so I started noticing that the vaccine wasn't working. And that's sort of what got me in trouble. I also started giving monoclonal antibodies, and I didn't ration them. So I became known in town as

• 6:47Speaker 03

  a place you could get monoclonal antibodies without, you know, having to pass, you know, being a certain race or a certain age or that sort of thing.

• 6:55Joe Rogan?

  What do you think that was all about?

• 6:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know. But the monoclonal antibodies is very frustrating to me. They worked very well. They were not controversial. People would turn around the next day. But when they first came out, I could get as many doses as I wanted. I mean, they'd show up at my doorstep the next day. And it was great. I mean, that's, that's, that also sort of put me on the map with COVID. And then I didn't even use ivermectin until the government took over distribution of monoclonal antibodies. And then it became harder and harder to get them. And that's when I turned to ivermectin. But, you know, in my opinion, they did that on purpose. They did that to encourage people to take the COVID shot. It was very orchestrated.

• 7:40Speaker 03

  If you look at the timing, the, you know, in March, the government put out the big information on ivermectin and why you should not take it for COVID. They put that on the FDA's website. At the same time, they launched COVID-19 Community Corps, and this was April 1, 2021. This was an $11.5 billion slush fund to propaganda, to, you know, feed out propaganda and censor people. And the day that they launched the COVID-19 Community Corps was the same day that Houston Methodist, which is where I had privileges, they mandated the COVID shots for all their employees. And they were the first in the country. And

• 8:25Speaker 03

  that's sort of how I got tangled up in all this, because I had privileges there. And then I was actually working with them. I was doing research with them. I was sharing my data with them to try to get it published. But then I started questioning. You know, the vaccine and how it wasn't working. I brought it to their attention first and they gaslit me. They just said, well, it's just, it lowers severity. And when they, when they ignored me, then I started speaking out on social media. And that's how, that's what got me in trouble. But so that summer, 2021, that's when the third and the largest surge of the pandemic started. And this was after the rollout of the wonderful COVID shots, which were promised to stop transmission

• 9:09Speaker 03

  and prevent death and obviously didn't. And the government was getting frustrated. So they doubled down on their ivermectin attack. And this was end of August, 2021. They put out the infamous horse tweet, said, seriously, y'all, you're not a horse, you're not a cow, stop it. A tweet went viral. It had dire consequences, in my opinion. And then they approved, they fully approved the COVID shot. And then Biden mandated for, for employers with 100 more employees. And that was right when they took you down. So it was all very coordinated. Oh, and then, and then the, the final straw was taking away monoclonal antibodies. Yeah.

• 9:51Speaker 01

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• 10:16Speaker 04

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• 10:28Speaker 00

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• 10:48Speaker 04

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• 11:15Speaker 00

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• 11:21Joe Rogan?

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• 12:05Joe Rogan?

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• 12:48Joe Rogan?

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• 13:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that was the more fascinating thing about it to me is I listed a bunch of different things that I took, including monoclonal antibodies, but they only concentrated on ivermectin.

• 13:10Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:11Joe Rogan?

  But the way they did it was like so transparent, like changing the color of my face on CNN and everywhere this concerted effort to call it horse dewarmer. It was, they just tried to make it look as preposterous as possible without ever explaining that it's been used more than, multiple billions of times prescribed to human beings.

• 13:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, they branded you. When I think of you, I think of that, that picture of you where you're slightly green.

• 13:39Joe Rogan?

  Damn.

• 13:40Speaker 03

  And I, honestly, and, yeah, but ivermectin, I was nervous about using it because of all the hype.

• 13:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 13:49Speaker 03

  And because monoclonal worked, because monoclonals worked so well, I was like, well, this is not gonna live, you know, this is not gonna work. I was nervous. But the first thing I did was dug into the safety and anybody could do that, which is a minimal amount of effort. You can go to the FDA website and you can find the toxicity data on ivermectin. And there's something called the LD50, lethal dose 50, which is, it's a benchmark number that gives you an idea of how toxic a medication is. And LD50 means, how many animal, 50, what dose would kill 50% of lab animals? So for ivermectin, it kind of depends on the rat, I mean, the type of animal and the gender, but it's basically 10mg per kilogram, up to 80mg per kilogram.

• 14:33Speaker 03

  So for COVID, we're using 0.4mg per kilogram. So I knew that we were not worried about, you know, killing people with it. And then you, I did a literature search and I looked for accidental intentional overdoses for ivermectin and I couldn't find a single study. Whereas you do that for Tylenol, I mean, thousands, thousands of reports. So once I knew it was safe, then I started using it and then I found it worked. And then, yeah, all in all, I treated well over 6,000 patients and everybody that got early treatment stayed out of the hospital. Also had patients come in that were really sick in the second week. And that was such a learning experience for me because, you know, normally if somebody

• 15:14Speaker 03

  walked into my office with an oxygen saturation in the low 80s, I would call an ambulance. But I had patients who were refusing to go to the hospital. And I had to give them the option to possibly die in my office, which is scary. But we saved them. I mean, we just threw the kitchen sink at them. And we didn't have monoclonal antibodies. So we did, we brought them in every day. We did IV steroids. We did IV antibiotics. We gave them home oxygen. We gave them high dose of ivermectin. We did everything we could and it was amazing. I mean, they survived. It was very gratifying.

• 15:51Joe Rogan?

  So you think it was probably a combination of all the different medications and all the different treatments?

• 15:56Speaker 03

  You know, I would vary my approach depending on the severity, the comorbidities. I mean, it's an art, not a, you know, a protocol is a guideline, right? But every patient is sort of individual. And so for the patients, you know, the one patient I'm thinking of, I mean, he had a history of two heart attacks. He had a history of throat cancer. He came in with an oxygen level, it was below 80. I can't remember exactly what it was. But, I mean, so I just did everything. You know, I took everything that I could and gave it to him and it worked. But, and I had a few people like that. But, you know, if a, you know, 20-year-old came in, I'd probably just give him some ivermectin and, you know, it just depends.

• 16:33Joe Rogan?

  Why did you decide to try ivermectin even though there was all this negative propaganda?

• 16:39Speaker 03

  Well, because I had patients coming to see me who needed help. I mean, I just wasn't going to shut my door. I'd already established that I could help people with monoclonal antibodies. So I still had people coming to me seeking help and I just didn't have the heart to say no. And I knew it was safe. So I knew that, you know, it was a little bit iffy, but I knew it was safe. And there was good data showing it worked. It's just, you know, one thing, you can find a study to support any argument you want in medicine. I learned that in residency. All residents learn that. We have something called journal club where you sit down once a week and you pour through different articles. And the takeaway is most articles are... Yeah, crap. They're not, they're not, they're low-power, or they're, they're conflicts

• 17:24Speaker 03

  of interest, or, you know, they're not, they're designed poorly. So, you know, my mindset coming into the pandemic was, you know, the, the research, the journals are a starting point, but it's not, the final say is your, your own clinical experience and what you're seeing. And, you know, we had never seen COVID before. This was a brand-new entity. So we were learning on the fly, but, you know, I've never treated this many patients with a single disease in my career. I'm sure I never will again. And so you quickly become an expert. And, you know, doctor, I can't speak for all doctors, but we like to do well. We like our patients to get better. It's gratifying. That's how, sort of how

• 18:06Speaker 03

  you get job satisfaction, is seeing your patients do well. So why would I, you know, continue to have, you know, COVID patients come in if I couldn't help them? And it's astounding to me that the doctors in the hospitals just didn't pivot, didn't try new things. And I guess they were handcuffed by, you know, the hospital administrators. But it just seems to me that, you know, there was a doctor in Houston, Joe Verone, who I'm pretty good friends with, who, a critical care doctor, and he was one of the founders of FLCCC, which is sort of the, they developed the original protocols for ivermectin. And Dr. Verone had much better success than most other doctors. His overall

• 18:51Speaker 03

  success rate was 4.4% of his patients died, whereas in other hospitals, averaged around 20%. And he did, he threw the kitchen sink at them, at people. And he, he basically followed this FLCCC hospital protocol.

• 19:06Joe Rogan?

  So when the monoclonal antibodies were suppressed, what, what was the messaging? Like, what did they say to doctors?

• 19:15Speaker 03

  They said that, that the strain of the virus was no longer covered, so that it had evolved and it wouldn't work, but-

• 19:24Joe Rogan?

  At the same time, they're using the exact same vaccine.

• 19:26Speaker 03

  Exactly. And they had switched the monoclonal antibodies periodically. So it wasn't like they started with one and stuck with it the whole time. They switched it as things evolved, but-

• 19:37Joe Rogan?

  It was really clear. And the propaganda was shocking because we've all seen propaganda. With foreign conflicts, weapons of mass destruction, all that jazz. We've all seen propaganda. But when Rolling Stone magazine printed an article saying that people were, the hospitals were overflowing with people overdosing on ivermectin and gunshot victims couldn't get in, and then they used a stock photo, which was of a bunch of people wearing winter coats in like, I think it was, I think the article was August in Oklahoma. Like, the whole thing was, it was so brazen and sloppy and obvious, especially in the age of Google.

• 20:22Joe Rogan?

  If this had all gone down in the 1980s, we would all be in the dark. We would have no idea. We would have went like, wow, I guess the ivermectin's killing people. We wouldn't have known until like 2030. You know, people would have like, you have been a conspiracy theorist, you've been a crazy person, like, one of those people that could tell you all the facts about the Kennedy assassination, you know, with wild eyes, Oliver Stone. You know, but it was so obvious and it was so confusing because, you know, I had had people on my podcast before where, you know, I had doctors on and I would talk about foolish people that don't believe in traditional medicine, like people that want to try different things, like people that were anti-vaccine or anti-anything.

• 21:03Joe Rogan?

  I'd be like, these are the best people at the front of the line, trust them. Five years later, I'm like, don't trust anybody. They're all compromised, it's all money. And that was the most disheartening thing. The propaganda was disheartening, but it was that the whole system is compromised. And then when I found out that pharmaceutical drug companies are, they're the ones that are funding studies and that they could have a whole ton of studies. They don't have to divulge all the data from their studies. They only have to show you some studies that were carefully crafted to show efficacy. But all the other studies that they had that even showed negative effects, they could bury those. They didn't have, they weren't held responsible. I was like, what is this? Like, what is this?

• 21:47Joe Rogan?

  But it's like everything in the world when money gets involved.

• 21:52Speaker 03

  You know, that Rolling Stone tweet is still up. I found it yesterday, couldn't believe it.

• 21:57Joe Rogan?

  So wild. Look at that. Look at these people wearing winter coats. So apparently, this was a bunch of people that were waiting in line for the flu shot. Gunshot victims, all those people got shot. What the fuck is going on in Oklahoma? They're just shooting folks. They think it's the Wild West out there. Imagine if those were all gunshot. But look how crazy that article is, or that tweet is. Gunshot victims left waiting as horse dewarmer overdoses overwhelm Oklahoma. By the way, zero horse dewarmer's there. Zero. It was a total lie.

• 22:30Speaker 03

  Well, in, you know, even last Friday, Vanity Fair did an article on Maha and Cali Means. And they quoted me in it. And in, you know, in their description of me, they used horse dewarmer. Could not believe it.

• 22:47Joe Rogan?

  Still!

• 22:47Speaker 03

  Katherine Ebon, the reporter for Vanity Fair. And she buddied up to me, acted like we were good friends.

• 22:54Joe Rogan?

  That's what they always do it. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Sometimes it can feel like you're carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders. And for guys especially, it can feel like you have to carry that burden on your own. There's a lot of stigma around men being the provider to keep it all together by themselves. But that's not good for you, your family, or anyone. Did you know that 6 million men suffer from depression every year in the US? And it often goes undiagnosed because of these stigmas. Real strength isn't bottling things up inside, though. It's admitting to your faults and doing something to better yourself. So go talk to someone, a friend, your partner, family, a therapist. Therapy is an excellent tool everyone should utilize.

• 23:37Joe Rogan?

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• 24:20Speaker 03

  I learned a valuable lesson.

• 24:22Joe Rogan?

  It's so dirty. It's such a dirty business. God, I used to have massive respect for journalists. If I had never done this podcast, I'd be your regular schmo out there with, you know, just spitting out all the company lines, that all the blast all over the news. I kind of liked it better then.

• 24:40Speaker 03

  It was a lot easier, right? Ignorance is bliss.

• 24:43Joe Rogan?

  I didn't think the world was filled with demons, money hungry demons that are willing to sacrifice human lives in the pursuit of revenue. It's crazy.

• 24:53Speaker 03

  That's why we have to continue this fight, because people have lost all trust with good reason.

• 24:58Joe Rogan?

  With good reason. That's why I'm having you on. That's why I continue to talk. People are like, "Stop with the COVID already." I get it, folks. If this is not for you, move on. Mary and I will still be bitching about this for the next three years. Well, you know, for me, it was just, it was such a wake-up call, because it's so weird to see your face on TV green, first of all. That was weird. And then this term "horsey wormer." I'm like, why you guys aren't concentrating on the fact that a 55-year-old man is fine three days later during the worst strain? It was during the Delta, where everybody's freaking out, "This one's gonna kill us all." And I was fine, in three days. And I made this video. I'm like, "I'm sorry, I have to cancel the concert this weekend, you know, got COVID, but I'm good now." And then I had, I didn't think that was gonna be anything.

• 25:43Joe Rogan?

  I thought that was just gonna be the people that bought tickets to see Dave Chappelle and I in New Orleans. And that was gonna, or was it Nashville? Wherever it was. That's all it was gonna be. Those folks, they're gonna be upset. "I'm sorry, you know, we'll make it up to you. Your tickets still count." That's all I thought it was gonna be. I thought it was gonna be like a normal tweet that I put out, or a normal Instagram post that I pull out, put out. And then all of a sudden, I hear that Neil Young wants me removed from Spotify. I was like, "What the fuck is going on? This is crazy." Spotify got calls from two former presidents?

• 26:15Speaker 03

  Really?

• 26:15Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 26:17Speaker 03

  What about, did they deplatform, did you get censored or deplatformed?

• 26:21Joe Rogan?

  No, I grew by 2 million subscribers in a month. I did. Because, because people started listening. Because they made it sound like I was this maniac. And they started listening, like, "Oh..." He's really reasonable and pretty humble about all this stuff, just asking questions and bringing people on, like Dr. Robert Malone, who has nine patents in the invention of mRNA vaccine technology. Like, he's one of the, he took it himself.

• 26:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:49Joe Rogan?

  He was reporting his insane adverse side effect where he almost died. He was telling about it and they labeled him a kook for that.

• 26:57Speaker 03

  What made you so awake, though?

• 27:00Joe Rogan?

  Well, that.

• 27:01Speaker 03

  Just Malone?

• 27:02Joe Rogan?

  No, well, Malone, Peter McCullough, but I've always been the type of person that is like, if someone is saying something and they have rock-solid connect, Dr. Peter McCullough is the most published physician in his field in human history. Like, this is an incredibly well-respected doctor, up until he took a moral and ethical stand, saying that this is not what they're saying, this is not what we should be doing, and then destroyed. They tried to destroy his career.

• 27:35Speaker 03

  He said a horrible...

• 27:36Joe Rogan?

  It's insane. But the man has incredible courage and he was labeled all ki... When I would tell people, he's the most published physician in time, that you'd see their eyes glaze, though, like, they didn't want to hear it. I'm like, maybe he's right. Well, five years later, we know he's right. We know he was right. He was right all along. I mean, the whole... So, for me, when there's pe... There's always a bunch of people that are ideologically or financially captured, and then there's people that feel morally obligated to tell the truth. And you can spot those people. And when I spotted a few of them, like, okay, let me hear them out. I might be the guy that goes, no, this guy's a kook and he's going to cost people lives. Or I might be someone who goes, hey, everybody,

• 28:19Joe Rogan?

  hit the brakes. Like, you might be getting bamboozled here and... Especially, the real concern with any sort of a new drug is always the side effects. But when you have indemnity, when you have complete immunity for any financial liability, like the vaccine manufacturers do, and all you have to do is label it a vaccine.

• 28:40Speaker 03

  Right.

• 28:40Joe Rogan?

  Because that's not a traditional vaccine. It's just not. They changed the definition for mRNA vaccine technology. Before that, it was not that. It was a very different thing. We all had it in our head, vaccines are good, that's why they don't get sued, because we need vaccines.

• 28:57Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:58Joe Rogan?

  You know, and then, then unfortunately, I read Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s book, The Real Anthony Fauci. I was like, oh my god.

• 29:05Speaker 03

  Did you, what was your initial thought about the COVID shot? What was your mindset?

• 29:10Joe Rogan?

  I was ready to take it.

• 29:10Speaker 03

  Did you take it?

• 29:11Joe Rogan?

  No, I didn't take it, but that's why they were so mad at me. I was ready to take it. I, I, um, the UFC had allocated shots for all, the Johnson Johnson, for all their employees. And I showed up there on a Saturday, which was the day of the fights. And I said, can you give it to me? And they said, yeah, sure, let's call the doctor, we'll set it up. I thought I was gonna get a shot. I thought it was like a flu shot. Like, I'll get that shot and I'll go do the broadcast. I was gonna do the broadcast. I didn't think anything of it. I was not worried about it at all. And they said, no, you have to come to the clinic and do it. Could you do that on Monday? And I said, I can't, but I'll be back in two weeks. During the time that I was trying to get it, and then, and two weeks later, when the next fights were, it got pulled from the market.

• 29:53Joe Rogan?

  Because of blood clots, and then two people I knew had strokes.

• 29:57Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:57Joe Rogan?

  And I was like, hold the fuck up.

• 30:00Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 30:00Joe Rogan?

  And then I got real nervous, because there was a lot of family members that were like, really pushing it. You need to get vaccinated, everyone should get vac, have you gotten vaccinated? Get vaccinated, we all need to do our part, we all need to get vaccinated. And, you know, then I became a heretic. You're right. Then, then I was like, okay, I don't, I don't think I want to do it. And I had a bunch of friends that had horrible side effects.

• 30:19Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 30:20Joe Rogan?

  Including one of them, who is a young guy, was a pacemaker now.

• 30:23Speaker 03

  Yep, yep.

• 30:24Joe Rogan?

  His heart stopped beating for like nine seconds at a time, and he would blackout. It was wild shit was happening. And I was like, I don't understand why this isn't on the news. I don't understand. And then I'm like, oh my god, I'm the news. I'm like, I have to be the news.

• 30:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:40Joe Rogan?

  I don't want to be the news. I like talking shit. I like having a bunch of comedians here. We have laughs. We get silly, you know, have a few drinks, watch some funny videos, crack each other. Have fun. Or scientists. I like to have fascinating people in here. Tell me how the cosmos was formed. I'm not, I don't want to be someone who distributes information to the masses that's been lied to. That's not, I don't have any lofty goals like that. Like, I want to be the, I want to be the one tells the truth. And that's not what I do.

• 31:07Speaker 03

  No.

• 31:09Joe Rogan?

  I'm just a curious person who talks to people.

• 31:10Speaker 03

  Was it hard for you to get ivermectin?

• 31:13Joe Rogan?

  No, I got it from India like that. I got boxes of it. I was handing it out to everybody.

• 31:18Speaker 03

  Most people don't have to go to India to get their medicine.

• 31:21Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 31:22Speaker 03

  In the US.

• 31:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, that was after my doctor had got it for me. My doctor got it for me. I think I fucked it up for everybody. I think me becoming the attack boy when they went after me, I don't think they would have attacked anybody that didn't have a large platform like that. And I don't think they would, I should say it better, I don't think they would have attacked ivermectin the way they did. I think they would have just suppressed it. And it wouldn't have been a public thing, because it wouldn't have got out. I think the problem was me saying that. The thing, the crazy thing is, I said all that other stuff too. I said IV vitamins. I said Z-Pak, prednisone. I told them all the things my doctor put me on. And all they concentrated on was this ivermectin thing. I was like, this is wild. Like, what is going on?

• 32:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:06Joe Rogan?

  And then I was like, am I wrong about ivermectin? Like, then I started just reading about the scientists, the team that invented it, and how they won a Nobel Prize. I'm like, okay, what the hell is happening? Like, this is nuts. This is so weird.

• 32:19Speaker 03

  Well, it was all part of, you know, getting the shot in every arm. And that's, they had to go after ivermectin. I mean, they launched a war on ivermectin. Pierre Corry wrote a book about it.

• 32:30Joe Rogan?

  Yes. I had Pierre on early on, too.

• 32:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. And I actually sued the FDA over that horse tweet. And we won. It hasn't really changed anything. But so the FDA, when they put that information or misinformation out against ivermectin, they were really crossing a line because they're not allowed to tell the public, you can't take a medication for this, or you should take a medication for that. They're basically allowed to just approve medications and move on. I mean, they can issue a safety alert if there's something that comes up. But they're not allowed to really direct patients, and that's what they did. And so we did sue them, and we won, and they had to take down the horse tweet, and they had to take down the misinformation on their website.

• 33:17Speaker 03

  But unfortunately, as evidenced by what just happened on Vanity Fair, I mean, the brand of it being only for animals still lives on. And it'd be great-

• 33:27Joe Rogan?

  What happened at Vanity Fair?

• 33:29Speaker 03

  So the reporter still used the term horse dewarmer, right?

• 33:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Wild.

• 33:34Speaker 03

  Right.

• 33:35Joe Rogan?

  Wild. You're still being a little horse dewarmer pusher in 2025.

• 33:39Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 33:40Joe Rogan?

  When Chris Cuomo is out there talking about how he's taking it for long COVID.

• 33:44Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 33:47Speaker 03

  But it'd be great if the FDA could issue some sort of statement, you know, saying that it is safe, that it is used in humans. They don't have to say much more than that, but we could use a little help in rebranding ivermectin. And there are also a bunch of states that are trying to make it over the counter. I'm not sure if you've seen that.

• 34:05Joe Rogan?

  Yes, I have.

• 34:06Speaker 03

  Seventeen states have had bills in the last legislative session trying to get ivermectin over the counter. Three have been successful, so Tennessee, Idaho, and Arkansas. Four is still in deliberations, and 10, they failed. But another thing the FDA, I believe, should do is make ivermectin over the counter. Because people are basically going to the feed store. I mean, my, my own kid, he had some sort of scabies situation in West Texas over the weekend. He had to go to the feed store to get treatment. And I, yeah, I did a poll on Twitter. Fifty-two percent of the respondents said they go to the feed store to get their ivermectin.

• 34:46Joe Rogan?

  Is there any difference in the ivermectin from the feed store?

• 34:49Speaker 03

  I don't know. I mean, I haven't heard of anybody having issues, but it's just unnecessary. This is America.

• 34:53Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 34:54Speaker 03

  We should be able to get the medication very easily.

• 34:56Joe Rogan?

  And there is some sort of an efficacy for some sort of skin infections. Is that true?

• 35:00Speaker 03

  Scabies is, is one of them.

• 35:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so, but you use it topically? Is that how it's word?

• 35:05Speaker 03

  You can. I mean, for, for scabies, actually, you can take it orally.

• 35:08Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 35:08Speaker 03

  But, yeah, so, we shouldn't have to go to India. We shouldn't have to go to the feed store. We should be able to just go to, I mean, in Mexico, you can get-

• 35:17Joe Rogan?

  The guy from India, he still emails me. You need any more, my friend?

• 35:20Speaker 03

  I don't know. That kind of worries me, because you just-

• 35:23Joe Rogan?

  I just bought boxes. I was handing out boxes to people, because so many people were telling me they couldn't get it.

• 35:28Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 35:28Joe Rogan?

  And so I'm like, let me just get a lot of it while I still can.

• 35:31Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess it's, it's probably fine, but it's just unnecessary.

• 35:36Joe Rogan?

  People are giving it to me at shows.

• 35:37Speaker 03

  Oh, they were? As gifts?

• 35:39Joe Rogan?

  [laughing]

• 35:40Speaker 03

  I carry it around my purse. I like-

• 35:41Joe Rogan?

  Do you really?

• 35:42Speaker 03

  -reminging for something. Oh, here's my ivermectin.

• 35:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I know people that take it as a prophylactic all the time.

• 35:47Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 35:47Joe Rogan?

  Which is so, it, it's just what a weird drug to go after, that was on the World Health Organization's list of essential medicines.

• 35:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:55Joe Rogan?

  And how many people who had yellow fever and river blindness, all, all sorts of different parasitic infections?

• 36:02Speaker 03

  It won a Nobel Prize.

• 36:04Joe Rogan?

  And it showed that it stopped viral replication in vitro. Like, they knew that.

• 36:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:09Joe Rogan?

  And I remember when I brought that up to Sanjay Gupta, it was like, but you know it does, right? And you could see the look on his face where it's like, I could, he couldn't talk about it.

• 36:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:17Joe Rogan?

  He had to skirt around it and just do his best to- But it was like, this is kind of crazy to make an off-label medication so taboo.

• 36:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:28Joe Rogan?

  And then to stop monoclonal antibodies, just stop them. Where you couldn't get them. My friend, one of his buddies was in the hospital and because he was in the hospital, they wouldn't give him monoclonal antibodies.

• 36:39Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. If you, if you, if you cross that threshold, you, you were not going to get monoclonal antibodies.

• 36:44Joe Rogan?

  What is that about? Does that make any sense?

• 36:46Speaker 03

  Well, they, they did it by the day. Apparently, there was some data showing if you gave it too late in the time course, it actually makes things worse.

• 36:52Joe Rogan?

  How many people did they give it to that were too late? I. How do we know this?

• 36:56Speaker 03

  I, it's a little suspicious.

• 36:58Joe Rogan?

  It does seem suspicious because like, why would, if something, if you, you've shown something to be very effective, done early on, wouldn't you assume it would continue to be at least somewhat effective?

• 37:09Speaker 03

  Right.

• 37:10Joe Rogan?

  Now, if you're trying to stop someone who's on the brink of death, which this gentleman wound up dying, and they, they didn't get it to him. If you're just trying to stop, and you can't do it because you're, you're in the hospital? Because you're admitted?

• 37:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:23Joe Rogan?

  Like, you should have like crazy data that shows like after 14, your feet fall off. 14 days of infection, your feet fall off, you go blind if you take it, can't give it to you.

• 37:32Speaker 03

  And my theory is, they probably had a massive inflammatory response because we would see that, that people would get the monoclonal antibodies and they would just feel like complete hell that night. Because it was like a little war going on in the body.

• 37:43Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 37:44Speaker 03

  And then they would wake up the next day feeling great. I don't know if they've had that experience, but.

• 37:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I pretty much did.

• 37:49Speaker 03

  So, you know, the second week of illness was the massive inflammatory response. So, my, my thinking is the monoclonal antibodies may have just exacerbated that. But they could have counteracted that with, with high-dose steroids. And that was another thing. They gave these like piddly doses of steroids in the hospital.

• 38:06Joe Rogan?

  And what steroids, steroids in particular?

• 38:08Speaker 03

  Uh, methylprednisolone or solumedrol was what we typically used if we were in, if it was in the hospital.

• 38:13Joe Rogan?

  Is that prednisone what I took? Is that the same thing?

• 38:14Speaker 03

  No, well, prednisone's an oral. There are different types, but like I usually do a medrol dose pack rather than prednisone because it's been shown to help better with respiratory. It's not a huge deal, but in the hospitals, they could give soliumedrol and high doses of that, but they were giving very small doses of steroid, which is a problem.

• 38:34Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, interesting. Well, that's also one of the things that they talked about in the RFK Junior book, was that the studies that were saying that it was ineffective, the studies were not using the protocol that these doctors were using. And it seemed like these studies were designed to fail.

• 38:55Speaker 03

  Exactly, exactly. And, you know, like I said, you can find a study to support or go against anything you want, basically. So I just relied on my clinical experience. And I just had so many people saying, wow, it really made a big difference. And I saw people staying out of the hospital and it wasn't hurting anybody. So, but yeah, a lot of those studies were basically designed to fail. Either, you know, the dose wasn't high enough, or they gave it too late, or it was heavily funded by somebody that doesn't want it to succeed.

• 39:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's all very bizarre. Like, really, it's really bizarre to live through. And for you, as a person who was out of medicine and then said, jump back in six months before all this, like, what is it like to have your worldview sort of like spun around like that?

• 39:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's just, I mean, it's good and bad. Like, I feel sorry for the people that don't get it in a lot of ways. But I just never thought it would come to all this. You know, I didn't go back to work to have a huge, huge career. I was just basically trying to stay busy and, you know, active and...

• 40:04Joe Rogan?

  And help people.

• 40:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, and, but I didn't envision this at all. But it's been very impactful, I'll say that.

• 40:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, what has it been like, like, having, I mean, having to do this?

• 40:18Joe Rogan?

  I've been to all these podcasts.

• 40:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's wild. Yeah, it's not what I envisioned at all. But it's been, you know, I feel vindicated finally. At least I'm not embarrassed to go to the school functions anymore or show up at the sporting get events or, you know, I used to be scared to go to the grocery store because they just, they came after me so hard. And Houston, I mean, Houston Methodist Hospital is sort of the, the country club, you know, the elite of the hospitals. And so for the, for them to come after me was a, a big deal. It's hard to get privileges there. You know, they, their tagline is leading medicine and they were very proud of being the first hospital in the country to mandate the shots. They didn't need to go after me. I mean, I was nothing.

• 41:04Speaker 03

  I was, you know, I, I saw a lot of COVID patients, but in the grand scheme of things, I really wasn't, you know, I was not really doing anything.

• 41:12Joe Rogan?

  It's the Streisand effect, right?

• 41:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 41:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they, they attacked you and by doing so, they made the whole thing way bigger than it needed to be.

• 41:21Speaker 03

  But they did silence other doctors. I mean, I, I hear from doctors all the time and it won't say anything because of what they did to me.

• 41:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no, there's a lot of doctors that I know that were in danger of losing their license because they had prescribed ivermectin.

• 41:35Speaker 03

  And that was another thing. You know, the, the Federation of State Medical Boards, which is this private entity, they're actually located in Texas, who oversees all the state medical boards. They sent out a, a directive to all the state medical boards concerning ivermectin, concerning misinformation and basically encouraging the medical boards to go after doctors like myself. And I mean, I'm still, I'm still tangled up with a medical board trying to clear my name. But they did that, that was, it all happened in that fall of 2021, right when Biden mandated the shots. They really came down hard on the doctors.

• 42:16Joe Rogan?

  So what did they do specifically to you?

• 42:19Speaker 03

  So I got several complaints, but only one of them is really stuck. The others have, I've cleared my name on, but they were all involving ivermectin. No patient harm. The one that has stuck is from a hospital in Dallas called Texas Hugley Hospital. And there was this man, a sheriff's deputy, father of six, who's basically dying. They were talking hospice. And his wife wanted him to have the opportunity to try ivermectin. And he had tried to get it before getting in the hospital and couldn't find a doctor willing to prescribe it. So wife knew he was okay with it. And so she sued the hospital and then she asked me to come on as sort of the expert. They had to have a doctor who was willing to prescribe it because they can't force

• 43:04Speaker 03

  the doctors to prescribe a medication. But they could force the hospital to give a doctor privileges who was willing to prescribe it. So that's where I came in. And we won the case and the hospital had a court order saying that they were going to give me emergency temporary privileges so that I could go into the hospital and give him ivermectin. Well, there was all this stall tactics. They were supposed to give me the privileges the same day. And in other circumstances, at that time, because of the pandemic, they were giving doctors same day privileges. It wasn't this lengthy application process because there was a shortage of doctors. But for me, they made me submit my surgical case log for the last three years. They made me get three letters of recommendation.

• 43:49Speaker 03

  They made me fill out like a 30-page application. I got it all done in 24 hours. And then they're like, no, no, we're not, we're actually going to deny you privileges. So it turned out into this big battle. It became very confusing because I had to go back to the judge. And I finally got the green light though. The lawyer's like, we can go. You've got the green light, the judge, we got the order, there's no stay on the order. I sent a nurse to the hospital because this is in Dallas and I'm in Houston, shows up with the court order and the police greet her and turn her away. There's not a big scene. She leaves, but she's not allowed to give him ivermectin. It turns out they did get a stay, but our lawyers weren't aware of it at the time.

• 44:31Speaker 03

  But this is what they're going after me. They said that I sent a nurse to the hospital without privileges and I caused a scene and I harmed other patients by doing this. And it has been, I mean, it's three and a half years. They can't find an expert witness to testify against me. There have been three continuances. They finally were awarded summary judgment against me. So they've decided I'm guilty. And now I'm waiting for my punishment. There was a hearing about a month ago to find out what they're going to find me with and that sort of thing. And I'm just waiting on that. But I do plan on appealing. It's just gotten crazy.

• 45:11Joe Rogan?

  Wow. So the first thing they attacked you with was what? What was the first one?

• 45:20Speaker 03

  For the medical board?

• 45:22Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 45:23Speaker 03

  I had one pharmacist turn me in because we'd sort of gotten a pissing match on the phone.

• 45:31Joe Rogan?

  And this is in 2021?

• 45:33Speaker 03

  That might have been, I can't remember, but around that time. I had another, I had a father reach out to me. His 17-year-old had a history of a kidney transplant and they were going to Europe and they wanted to have ivermectin just in case he got sick. And I was talking to the dad and the stepmother. I didn't realize I wasn't talking to the mother. So the mother found out I prescribed him ivermectin and turned me in. But ivermectin is metabolized by the liver, not the kidney. So it would be no harm for him to get, you know, having had a kidney transplant for him to get ivermectin. And he never took the medicine. But it cost me $16,000 in legal fees to get that straightened out.

• 46:17Joe Rogan?

  So this was your first experience, like, oh my God, like, this is a real battle?

• 46:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I've never been in any trouble. I've never been sued.

• 46:28Joe Rogan?

  Would it feel weird publicly yet? Like, when you were saying you were having a hard time going to the grocery store, you're worried that...

• 46:35Speaker 03

  That was when Methodist came after me. So Methodist...

• 46:38Joe Rogan?

  They came after you very publicly?

• 46:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, they tweeted about me. They went to the, I found out that my privileges were suspended from a text message from a reporter. That's how I found out. I looked at my phone, I was like, what are you talking about?

• 46:51Speaker 03

  I did. I said, "Check your sources. I don't know what you're talking about." And then I go to my email and they suspended me and then they tweeted about it. And it went, you know, I had CNN, Washington Post going after me. It was traumatic. I mean, I was just a mom of four with a small practice and all of a sudden I've got CNN calling me.

• 47:12Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 47:13Speaker 03

  So.

• 47:15Joe Rogan?

  What was going through your mind while that was happening?

• 47:19Speaker 03

  I spent the weekend in the fetal position in a lot of tears and then I was pissed. And I just, on Monday, I hired a lawyer and I hired a guy to help me with the press. And I held a press conference on Monday. I resigned and then I sued them. So, and then I just have been working to try to clear my name.

• 47:41Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 47:44Joe Rogan?

  But it's just, it's so hard to imagine for someone who's never experienced what you went through, what that must be like emotionally to just get thrown to the wolves in front of the world, like publicly, by people like CNN, like where it gets so weird because if that never happens to you, you look at CNN and you go, "Oh, they're the news. They're going to tell me the truth." I thought, I just automatically thought that. Or they're at least saying what they're allowed to say. Maybe the government holds back some information, but they're not going to lie. And then I see my own self on TV and I'm sure, but I'm used to being attacked for things.

• 48:25Speaker 03

  I think the harder was, you know, CNN, whatever, but it's more just the locally, like going to the grocery store, going to the baseball game where your kid's playing and like hoping, you know, sitting in a corner because you don't want anybody to see you.

• 48:36Joe Rogan?

  Did anybody ever bother you?

• 48:38Speaker 03

  No, honestly, no. But you just feel self, you just feel very self-conscious. It's hard not to. Even now, I still feel self-conscious, but it's a lot better. I mean... I had a Mother's Day event at school and people actually came up and said nice things to me for once, so that was nice.

• 48:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, a lot of people got red-pilled, to use the Matrix expression, where they woke up to what's really going on during... I mean, it's kind of a masterful job of propaganda over the years that the pharmaceutical drug companies have done. I mean, because most people aren't even aware of how many drugs get pulled. They're not even aware of the high percentage of them. What is it, in the 30s?

• 49:18Speaker 03

  Well, yes, about 33%. They looked at it over 10 years, 33% had significant safety warnings on the drugs. And it took about four years for those to become recognized. I mean, there are drugs I used to prescribe that are no longer on the market. I mean, so, yeah. Like I said, it would have been, any other drug would have definitely been pulled by now, based on all the adverse events we've seen.

• 49:43Joe Rogan?

  But it's just very profitable. And that's what people have to wake up to. There's a bunch of factors, right? There's the primary one, which is a bunch of scientists that are really trying to help people. And they're really trying to develop new ways to cure Parkinson's and all sorts of other problems, cancer, and these people are just constantly... And then there's the money people. The money people who take that thing and say, "How do we give OxyContin to everybody?" And then you have the Sackler family, right? You have evil. You have, like, actual evil. Maybe they don't have horns, maybe they don't have a forked tail, but that's a demonic thing to do. You're infecting people with essentially something that turns them into a zombie, and it's killing people. But you're going to make a lot of money.

• 50:28Speaker 03

  Especially in health, too. Especially in health.

• 50:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's because you're so trusted. You're coming from a position of authority. It's a very different thing, you know? And especially in an area where most people are woefully ignorant. I mean, look how many doctors who are practicing doctors who are woefully ignorant about nutrition.

• 50:48Speaker 03

  Right.

• 50:49Joe Rogan?

  It's an enormous amount, right? Now imagine the average person who has to go to a specialist about something, and they're being told, "Oh, you need Vioxx. This is this thing I'm going to give you, and it's going to cure your arthritis." Like, oh, great. And then you fucking stroke out. And the people who made that drug knew it was going to cause problems in people. In the emails that were admitted during the hearings when they lost, or during the court proceedings.

• 51:18Joe Rogan?

  They wound up paying a fraction of what they made. They made like 12 billion dollars. They had to pay, I think they had to pay five. So they made seven, you know, with, you know, it's costs and stuff. Stuff costs money. But Jesus, it's, it's so hard, it's so hard to wake up to that. It's so hard to like, go, wait, so they're not looking out for us? They're not like trying to make us better? I always thought they were the people that were the most wonderful people in the world. They're the people that are providing the medication that's keeping everyone alive. This is why our life expectancy is 100 years old now, as opposed to just 20 years ago. Like, oh, great.

• 51:55Speaker 03

  Life expectancy has gone down, actually.

• 51:56Joe Rogan?

  Whoops, whoops.

• 51:58Speaker 03

  Despite all the vaccines.

• 52:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 52:01Speaker 03

  Yeah. And vaccines are even their own special class, right? It's the gospel, it's a religion, it's a gospel. I mean, we were, it was never questioned in my training.

• 52:11Joe Rogan?

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• 53:42Joe Rogan?

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• 54:45Speaker 03

  Never.

• 54:45Joe Rogan?

  I would have never questioned it. Not only that, I would not talk to anybody who did. I'd be like, "Get out of here." I'm not having an anti-vaxxer on the show. Fuck off. But after reading Suzanne Humphrey's book, and I had her on recently, reading that book, it was like, "What? Wait a minute. What?" And then, just, "This can't be true." And then just look at the raw data of like when the vaccines were introduced, and also when hygiene was introduced, and sanitation was introduced, and then massive drop-off of the disease. And then at the very end, when it's almost gone, vaccines are introduced in almost every case. And yet, we all are thinking like, "Thank God vaccines exist, because otherwise we'd all have polio." Like, "Oh, Christ."

• 55:24Speaker 03

  Yeah. It bothers me that I never questioned it.

• 55:27Joe Rogan?

  Never would have. The polio one blew me away. When you find out that that was the same time where they were using DDT everywhere, and the people that were getting polio first were people in rural farmland communities, where they sprayed DDT everywhere, and it wasn't just affecting people, it was affecting horses, and it doesn't cross species. So it wasn't the same thing. Clearly, something was going on, and everybody got locked into this polio scare. And to this day, I had a friend use that to me in a text message to me, about, like, "Look, we have to really appreciate that." You know, he was like trying to make up for some stupid joke. And he was saying that, you know, "Look, Jonas Salk cured polio." I'm like...

• 56:11Joe Rogan?

  I don't have the time. I don't have the time to sit down and tell him, there's a great book. It's called Dissolving Illusions. You should read it. And then you should read Turtles All The Way Down. It's another great book. And then you should listen to Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s journey from being a very respected and trusted environmental attorney who was applauded by the left to being some nutcase pariah who I thought was a nutcase. I had to apologize to him when I had him on the show. I said, I have to tell you, when I first heard of you, and I thought you were a kook. You're this anti-vaccine kook. I bought, I was living in LA, working in Hollywood, wee. I bought into it, hook, line, and sinker. Everybody around me thought that way. So I thought we all, this is what sensible, intelligent people think.

• 56:55Speaker 03

  Yeah. I don't think you can really convince people. I think they have to figure it out for themselves.

• 57:00Joe Rogan?

  No, they don't want to hear it. That's the thing. It's like telling someone their spaghetti monster in the sky's not real. Like, they don't want to hear it.

• 57:07Speaker 03

  You just can't, right? I've just given up. But there's hope. I mean, you came around and you're not in the field, right? And people, I think, you know, COVID directly impacted every single American, and not in a good way, right?

• 57:25Joe Rogan?

  No, there's nothing good about it. The only thing good about it was a shift in perspective. And that it's going to be way harder to pull some shit off like this again. People are not going to buy into it, especially all those vaccine-injured people who keep getting gaslit. Why do they keep calling it long COVID? How come nobody I know wasn't vaccinated got long COVID?

• 57:45Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 57:46Joe Rogan?

  What is this long COVID you speak of? Is there a long flu? Where's the long pneumonia? What the fuck are you talking about? Why are you calling it? Is it possible that this is a vaccine injury? I'm just asking.

• 57:58Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, I've been looking at antibody levels in these people, and it's alarming. So, we really don't have a lot of tests for vaccine-injured. It's hard because they'll get the million-dollar workup.

• 58:13Speaker 03

  By the time they come to see me, you know, they've gone through, you know, multiple tests, they've multiple doctors.

• 58:18Joe Rogan?

  It's not really a million dollars, is it, the workup?

• 58:20Speaker 03

  Well, I don't know, but I'm exaggerating.

• 58:22Joe Rogan?

  Right, I just want to be clear.

• 58:23Speaker 03

  I don't think it could be.

• 58:24Joe Rogan?

  From some Vanity Fair page, Horace D. Wormer, who claimed there was a million-dollar markup.

• 58:29Speaker 03

  Actually, somebody should fact-check me on that. It's probably higher than a million, but, uh, was, oh, so they get, you know, they go through the workup, and then they can't find, they can't find a test to prove that they're injured. So the doctors will put them on psychiatric medication, they'll put them on sleeping pills, and benzodiazepines, and antidepressants. Literally, I saw a patient was put on all three. Um, so the only test that I have found that does seem to correlate is this antibody test. It's a spike protein antibody test. LabCorp has it, that's where I send people, Quest has it, but they put the upper limit is too low, so you don't really get a good sense, but, you know, the upper limit of the test is 25,000.

• 59:13Speaker 03

  And, and people that have not gotten the COVID shots, I'd say it ranges, it's usually under 1,000. And then people that have gotten the shots, I mean, it's, a lot of them are off the chart. They're over 25,000, but on average, they're probably 10 times higher than the people that have not gotten the shot. And this is people who weren't, you know, they were vaccinated four years ago. It wasn't like they just got the shot, you know, obviously, COVID's not an issue anymore in terms of, you know, people getting sick, but four years later, you should not have sky-high antibody levels. And that's what I'm seeing, and that is alarming. Uh, it just suggests that there is a lot of spike protein still in the body, causing problems.

• 59:55Joe Rogan?

  And haven't they shown that the spike protein continues to be produced in the body up to 700 days later?

• 1:00:03Speaker 03

  There's, yes, I mean, that is, that's one study. There's some, you know, what's interesting in that study, the antibody levels were really low, which doesn't make sense. I kind of questioned the whole study, but, yeah, I mean, I see it. I mean, I see patients, I mean, I still see vaccine-injured patients coming to me for the first time, years later. Last week, I probably saw six new vaccine-injured patients. And they're not getting any help. The government, there's, it's called the CICP, that's a, it's a Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program. They're supposed to help these patients. They have denied 98% of people that have applied for assistance. They, on average, they, I think they've awarded 20, they've

• 1:00:48Speaker 03

  awarded 30 people, 30, of all the vaccine-injured that have applied, 30 people, on average, they award us like $4,000 for these people. It's horrible. I mean, these people's lives are just destroyed. These are not easy things to treat. It's not like I can give them an antibiotic and they're good to go and they're fine. I mean, they're very challenging. It's a, we don't have a lot of guidance. I do see a lot of success with ivermectin, but it's slow-going. It's usually, you know, months of trying to help them. And the government really needs to help these people. There's a lot of people suffering and they're getting completely ignored. The other issues, we don't even have a code. So every disease

• 1:01:31Speaker 03

  has a numerical code. It's called an ICD-10 code. It's what they use to compensate people for, or the insurance companies use them, but also for tracking. So if you have, you know, COVID has its own little code and you can just dial in the code and get all the numbers. They don't have a code for vaccine injury. They have a code for vaccine hesitancy, but they don't have a code for injury. So all these people are just sort of, you know, they're getting all these diagnoses, but there's no way to track them. It's a big problem.

• 1:02:02Joe Rogan?

  How convenient.

• 1:02:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:04Joe Rogan?

  Well, I would imagine you, the real problem with paying people is you'd have to pay so many.

• 1:02:10Joe Rogan?

  You know, but that's

• 1:02:11Speaker 03

  We can just print the money. I don't know what the problem is.

• 1:02:14Joe Rogan?

  I mean, what will you, what do you give them? What if you find out you have myocarditis and your life expectancy is greatly reduced? And we know for a fact it came out of this vaccine. What do you give a person like that? You're gonna take

• 1:02:26Speaker 03

  Their life's wages, what wages that they would have potentially earned.

• 1:02:30Joe Rogan?

  What if it's Katy Perry?

• 1:02:32Speaker 03

  Well, so be it.

• 1:02:33Joe Rogan?

  You know what I'm saying? Like, you give her two billion dollars?

• 1:02:35Speaker 03

  I don't care.

• 1:02:36Joe Rogan?

  Like, what do you do?

• 1:02:37Speaker 03

  The vaccine companies can, can pay that money.

• 1:02:39Joe Rogan?

  I know, but it's insane. The, the number of people that I, that I personally know. What's very shocking to me is when I talk to people that are pro-vaccine, still pro-vaccine. And when I be very specific, mRNA vaccine. Still pro-COVID vaccine that will tell me they don't know anybody who was injured by it.

• 1:02:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:58Joe Rogan?

  I was like, how is that possible?

• 1:03:00Speaker 03

  How many people do you know?

• 1:03:01Joe Rogan?

  I know a lot. I know two people on pacemakers.

• 1:03:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:05Joe Rogan?

  Two.

• 1:03:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, everybody knows somebody.

• 1:03:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I know a lot of people that got fucked up, including family members. I know a lot of people that got fucked up. And people that don't want to admit they got fucked up. All of a sudden, they have this new cancer that's spreading, like rapidly.

• 1:03:20Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:03:20Joe Rogan?

  It's terrifying. You know, it's like, um, I watched the Danny Jones podcast and you guys were trying to get, uh, Casey Means,

• 1:03:31Speaker 03

  Callie.

• 1:03:32Joe Rogan?

  Callie Means to talk about SV40. Right?

• 1:03:36Speaker 03

  Well, my thing with Callie, I actually talked to him last night. Just why, he will not go on record to state the COVID shot should be pulled off the market. And that, you know, that's the whole, he's the head of my, I look at him.

• 1:03:47Joe Rogan?

  Do you think that's being political? That's trying to like appease too many people? What do you think that is?

• 1:03:51Speaker 03

  I can't read their minds, but I think it's, I think anybody with a big microphone, who is in a position of power and who knows the truth is ethically obligated to speak the truth. That's how I see it. I mean, I'm not a politician. I keep hearing the word strategy.

• 1:04:09Speaker 03

  But there are, you know, there are people I see, I'm just faced with the carnage every day in my office. It's, it's just, I can't ignore it and I don't understand why this is so difficult. Other than, you know, political, but it shouldn't be political.

• 1:04:24Joe Rogan?

  It shouldn't be. Right, that's what's disappointing because we thought that this administration come in and it was just gonna kick down doors.

• 1:04:29Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:04:30Joe Rogan?

  Like, this is it. Epstein list, day one. Who killed JFK? Let's find out. What are all these fucking UFOs?

• 1:04:38Speaker 03

  That was on my priority list, but yeah.

• 1:04:40Joe Rogan?

  Mine, I'm a dummy. That was my number one. If I had, out of those three, give me that one. Tell me the aliens are real. But, this political dance, this excuse for that. So, I really appreciated Jack Cruz kind of pestering him on that. And then I've talked to Bret Weinstein about that as well. And he gave a breakdown of how it actually happened and when the original kidney cells from these monkeys were being used to make vaccines. That they inadvertently gave these people this simian virus 40. Which, when it gets into the human body, can lead to rapid cancer.

• 1:05:23Speaker 03

  Right. Well, yeah, that's one of the cancer-causing issues with these shots. It's not the only one, though.

• 1:05:29Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:05:30Speaker 03

  It goes into the cell. It's supposed to not get into the nucleus, but it could get in the nucleus. We know that it can get into the nucleus. And then if it gets in the nucleus...

• 1:05:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, at first they thought it was gonna stay local.

• 1:05:41Speaker 03

  Right, right. It's only gonna stay in the arm, right?

• 1:05:42Joe Rogan?

  It's gonna stay right where your arm is. Your body will react to it. It'll produce the antibodies, and then you're good to go. And then all these silly people, you can watch them die in the streets and laugh as you step over them. Ha, ha, ha. I was smart.

• 1:05:54Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:05:55Joe Rogan?

  I trusted the science.

• 1:05:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So, they know that that's not true. It doesn't stay local. They know it doesn't dissipate within... It was a small amount of time that it was supposed to stay inside your body. They know that's not true.

• 1:06:08Speaker 03

  Right. So, yeah, they replaced one of the nucleotides with something that's hard to break down, pseudoureidine. They've never shown that pseudoureidine is cleared from the body. There's no study showing that we can clear it. So, that could be why these people have these sky-high antibody levels four years later. Because the body might not be able to break it down.

• 1:06:29Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my god. Oh my god, that's terrifying. What could you conceive of would that would help something like that? Like, what could you do that would aid the body in being able to do something like that? Is there anything theorized?

• 1:06:44Speaker 03

  I, yeah, I don't know. I wish, you know, Robert Malone would be a good person to ask, maybe.

• 1:06:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, maybe something like, yeah.

• 1:06:51Joe Rogan?

  He should come back on and do a victory, victory lap, anyway. That guy was torn apart.

• 1:06:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:55Joe Rogan?

  They were trying so hard to make him out to seem to be a kook. And every interview he would do, he would be so reasonable, so logical, so fact-based, and so knowledgeable. And they still, they still, he was a kook, he was a kook. I remember some fucking guy yelled at me in, excuse me, yelled at me in Vegas. He said something about me spreading disinformation, then he said something about that idiot Malone. I'm like, that, oh, that guy.

• 1:07:21Speaker 03

  The inventor of mRNA.

• 1:07:23Joe Rogan?

  Or one of them, you know, I mean, it's, I don't know. I'm sure this, it's not like, none of those things ever happened in a vacuum. I'm sure there's a ton of people working on that. But he was one of them.

• 1:07:32Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:07:33Joe Rogan?

  He's a fucking brilliant guy. But, so, how did they find out that it can get into the nucleus?

• 1:07:41Speaker 03

  Well, if you look at lip, if you look at lipid nanoparticles, and that's sort of the, that's what, otherwise, if you just put mRNA into the body without the lipid nanoparticle, it would get destroyed. So they put the, they put it in the shell, the lipid nanoparticle. And there are studies showing lipid nanoparticles can cross the nuclear membrane. So, there's, there's that. Kevin McKernan is a scientist, he's, he's on X a lot. He's done a lot of work in that, showing DNA contamination that's getting into these shots, in addition to the SV40, and he's-

• 1:08:20Joe Rogan?

  DNA contamination.

• 1:08:21Speaker 03

  Right. So, there's, there's, and this was what Joe Ladapo, the Surgeon General of Florida, he has actually called for the COVID shots to be pulled off the market. And his, his main argument was, there is a certain amount of DNA that is allowed in any kind of these products, and we have proof that they have exceeded that threshold. So there have been studies showing that there's excess DNA in these samples, which shouldn't be there. And that's just sort of this hard line that shouldn't be crossed.

• 1:08:51Joe Rogan?

  Where's this DNA coming from?

• 1:08:53Speaker 03

  In the production process, I guess. But- It's, it's pretty cut and dry. I think that's why Dr. Ladapo has chosen this argument to go by, because there's just like a hard line that you don't cross, and they have crossed that.

• 1:09:08Joe Rogan?

  And what happens if you get too much DNA?

• 1:09:11Speaker 03

  Well, it can integrate, the concern is, does it integrate into your own, into your cell DNA?

• 1:09:17Joe Rogan?

  Are we gonna make like monkey people?

• 1:09:20Speaker 03

  No, cancer, but cancer, that's.

• 1:09:24Joe Rogan?

  Right. Can you imagine if we made like hybrid people, they turned out to look like Neanderthals, you know, like we injected them with something that twisted their genes back? But just the idea of manipulating your DNA is so terrifying. It's like, what?

• 1:09:37Speaker 03

  And pregnant women, right?

• 1:09:38Joe Rogan?

  Right, integrating?

• 1:09:39Speaker 03

  You know, it'd be one thing if it's a 70-year-old man, but a pregnant woman.

• 1:09:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you hear that term? Integrate DNA. You don't think good things. That's like, immediately, I'm like, what?

• 1:09:48Speaker 03

  And these things are technically gene therapy products. They're not vaccines, so.

• 1:09:53Joe Rogan?

  Which is a real problem with using the same term. Why not use a new term? Well, because then you wouldn't be under the umbrella of protection that vaccines currently enjoy, where they can't be, which is so crazy. It's so crazy. It's just hard to believe it's true. It really is.

• 1:10:12Speaker 03

  It is.

• 1:10:12Joe Rogan?

  And so for a person like you, that just like you were saying, you see the carnage every day. Tell me what it's been like. Like, what is it like?

• 1:10:18Speaker 03

  It's hard because, as an ENT, I'm used to, I'm used to fixing people quickly. So, you know, I get somebody with a sinus infection, get them an antibiotic, they're good to go. I got somebody with an abscess, I drain the abscess, they're good to go. It's, it's sort of why I chose my specialty, because I like to see the results quickly. I didn't go into primary care for a reason, like, and so when I see the injured, it's like, you know, it's very slow growing, slow going. We don't have a lot of research. It's trial and error. These people are young, were previously young and healthy, and their lives have just been completely destroyed. I don't have a big support system of other specialists I

• 1:11:01Speaker 03

  can send them to. It's hard. I mean, I don't feel sorry for myself, but I'm just saying it's just very different from what I'm used to as a doctor. So, I really hope that the government will step up and do something about this.

• 1:11:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that would be a nice thing to hope to do something about it. But it would be really nice if some real research was done on what are the actual long-term effects. If you're, if everyone's looking at it from a position of, we can't get sued for this. This is dangerous. Like, we, someone has to look at it and say, well, this, these are the definite effects of this vaccine. Because it's too much, this is long COVID. It's too much, oh, he got a neurological condition that was going to happen anyway. It's just coincidentally happened after he took the COVID shot. Like, there's gotta be some way to determine what of these ailments. Like, specifically, like, when you're talking about that abnormal antibody levels, like...

• 1:12:01Speaker 03

  Well, there are patterns. I mean, I definitely see the same sort of things over and over again. So, it's not like, you know...

• 1:12:06Joe Rogan?

  But as you said, it doesn't have a classification.

• 1:12:08Speaker 03

  Right, it doesn't have a code, so we need an ICD-10 code for these...

• 1:12:11Joe Rogan?

  That seems kinda crazy.

• 1:12:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, well...

• 1:12:13Joe Rogan?

  Imagine if that was the case with, like, herpes. Everybody'd be like, hey, put a damn code in there so we know what this is.

• 1:12:20Speaker 03

  Right. But there, you know, I see very similar constellation of symptoms. I see patients with these abnormal tremors, which, you know, they can't stop shaking even when they're sleeping. They feel internal vibrations.

• 1:12:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 1:12:35Speaker 03

  Or they'll have severe pain that you can't explain. You know, you get an MRI, there's nothing, there's no nerve damage that you can tell. I've seen some very strange rashes, and normally, you know, it doesn't matter what kind of rash it is, you throw a few meds at it and it'll disappear. But actually, the only thing that I've found helpful is ivermectin for these strange rashes. And you see pats where the blood pressure, that's the hardest, I think, and this is, we're seeing a lot of this, where the blood pressure just drops suddenly with no stimulation or the heart races with no provocation. That is very common, very difficult to treat.

• 1:13:15Joe Rogan?

  That's a good friend of mine.

• 1:13:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:16Joe Rogan?

  He says, every now and then, his heart will just jack up to, like, 180.

• 1:13:20Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:13:20Joe Rogan?

  And he has to sit down. And he just has to hope that this isn't the last time he breathes.

• 1:13:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:25Joe Rogan?

  He just sits there. He has a heart monitor. He puts, like, one of them wrist-watch ones, the Garmin one. He just watches his heart jack up to, like, 180, 180 beats per minute, just sitting there for no reason, not knowing if you're gonna die. Another friend of mine who was really young was a soccer player. Super healthy guy, super fit, gets the vaccine, all of a sudden, giant heart racing in the middle of the night, like, out of control, like, you know, like you're running a seven-minute mile, just jacked.

• 1:13:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:13:54Joe Rogan?

  And he wound up in the hospital twice. Nothing they could do, it all went away, it stopped, went back to normal after a while. But now he's got this, like, terrible fear that he's got a fucking time bomb in his chest.

• 1:14:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:14:05Joe Rogan?

  That out of nowhere, would just, his heart would just ramp up. And you could say, like, oh, that was, it's probably a genetic thing, he probably had it already, it was like, maybe. But this guy was super fit.

• 1:14:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:14:16Joe Rogan?

  Super fit soccer player.

• 1:14:17Speaker 03

  And that's the athletes, the sudden death in athletes. So it used to be twenty-nine per year, now it's two-hundred-and-ninety per year, growth ten times.

• 1:14:27Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 1:14:28Speaker 03

  Dropping dead.

• 1:14:29Joe Rogan?

  The rarest of rare people to drop dead in the middle of nowhere. The, the, the best athletes in the world, the people who are the healthiest, in the prime of their life.

• 1:14:37Speaker 03

  Right. And I worry, I worry about these kids because, you know, myocarditis, the primary symptom is chest pain. But if you've got a kid who's not even speaking yet, you have no idea if they have myocarditis. And myocarditis can leave a permanent scar on the heart, and then lead to a lifelong increased risk of sudden cardiac death. And, kid, we have no idea if, if these kids have been affected.

• 1:15:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and how many kids did we see drop dead of heart attacks in, like, high school football this year?

• 1:15:09Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:15:10Joe Rogan?

  Like, over, over the last, uh, four years, rather. It was, it was like, you'd see these articles pop up all the time. You never saw those articles. Or if you did, it was super rare, and it's some kid with a heart condition that was never diagnosed, which does happen.

• 1:15:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, and the schools are now making kids get cleared by a doctor before doing sports, which I don't remember that when we were kids.

• 1:15:28Joe Rogan?

  Wow, yeah, they just threw us right onto the wrestling team. They didn't check shit. They didn't even see if you had a cold.

• 1:15:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, I don't know. It's football season and Uber Eats is delivering deals every game day. This week, buy a four-piece signature chicken from Popeyes and get another one free on Uber Eats. When your watch party gets hungry, order in and keep everyone's attention where it matters on the game. Order a four-piece signature chicken from Popeyes and get another one free. No matter who scores big tonight, you'll score great deals on Uber Eats all season long because it's not football without food. Popeyes offer valid through November 1st. Add eligible menu item to order prior to checkout. Taxes, fees, and terms apply. Product availability varies by region. Exclusions may apply.

• 1:16:20Joe Rogan?

  See app for details. This episode is brought to you by Visible. As fall hits, we enter another season of change. Time to shift gears, drop the dead weight, and upgrade the wardrobe for the drop in temperature. But one thing that doesn't need to change? Your phone. The smartest upgrade this season isn't a new phone. It's a better wireless plan. Switch to Visible, the ultimate wireless hack. You get unlimited 5G data and unlimited hotspot powered by Verizon for just $25 a month. That means keeping the phone you already have, ditching your overpriced phone bill, and pocketing some savings for yourself. All the perks of big wireless for half the cost. Switch today at visible.com.

• 1:17:04Joe Rogan?

  The Visible plan starts at just $25 a month. Or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month with promo code ROGEN. Terms apply. See visible.com for plan features and network management details. What's better? It's probably better to screen them. They'll find those undiagnosed conditions that kids can have.

• 1:17:26Speaker 03

  Well, I just think that I think it's in response to what's happened.

• 1:17:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it certainly is. But I mean, that might be the good aspect of it. Maybe some people will get diagnosed that didn't have any idea that they were running around with a problem and they can fix it.

• 1:17:38Speaker 03

  But myocarditis, it's hard to diagnose. Like really, the only way you can diagnose myocarditis for sure is to do either a biopsy or a cardiac MRI, which is, you know, most kids are not going to be put through that.

• 1:17:49Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:17:50Speaker 03

  So it's scary.

• 1:17:53Joe Rogan?

  And it's what's crazy is this is all true and yet us talking about it makes us both look like kooks like we then will be labeled for sure someone will go out and attack us now and label us anti vax anti-science kooks and this is what's dangerous about this conversation this is what's dangerous about what they said and you know those people work for the devil.

• 1:18:17Speaker 03

  Well, do you think you'll get censored on YouTube this interview?

• 1:18:20Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:18:21Speaker 03

  You don't?

• 1:18:21Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:18:22Speaker 03

  Cause I was just on Jimmy Dore.

• 1:18:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:24Speaker 03

  And they had to bleep out like a full sentence of mine.

• 1:18:27Joe Rogan?

  I'm not bleeping out shit. I'm not bleeping out shit.

• 1:18:31Speaker 03

  You think it'll be okay?

• 1:18:31Joe Rogan?

  Uh, we'll find out. I, I think it's wrong if it's not okay. If it's not okay, I think YouTube is more reasonable now than they were during the pandemic and I think they have a very difficult job managing content at scale where you're dealing with, you know, the, the amount of people uploading things is insanity and they have certain things that they've tagged as being controversial because they were anti-science or misinformation that it's still, there's like lingering ones. What was the issue that we had, Jamie? We had like an old episode where there was something in the old episode that would have violated their rules back

• 1:19:11Joe Rogan?

  then. It doesn't violate them now, but we, because the episode was uploaded back then, what happened with that?

• 1:19:20Speaker 06

  It had like a weird, at the time, the penalty was like a, you had to do something and so like they couldn't take that step away. That was kind of the issue.

• 1:19:29Joe Rogan?

  But the bottom line was, everything this person said was true.

• 1:19:32Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:19:33Joe Rogan?

  And proven to be true now. And now it's a hundred percent fact. So now you can say whatever you want. Like now if you say, hey, you know, it's super likely that that virus leaked from a lab in China and now you can say that. Like back then you would get attacked. It would be crazy. You'd be called a racist. You'd be called the worst things possible if you just said like the wonderful Jon Stewart bit that he did on Colbert Show. Did you ever see that bit?

• 1:19:58Speaker 03

  I can't remember.

• 1:19:59Joe Rogan?

  You want to see it?

• 1:19:59Speaker 03

  Refresh my memory. Oh, yeah.

• 1:20:00Joe Rogan?

  Let's watch it, because it's really hilarious. This is like in the heart of the pandemic. You know, and Stephen Colbert was like, vaccine or death. You know, he was all in on it.

• 1:20:09Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:20:10Joe Rogan?

  And so Colbert was like trying to like halt him in the middle. He's doing a bit. Jon Stewart's doing a bit. He's doing a funny bit. And Colbert tries to like cock-block it. He tries to like trip him. But Jon Stewart powers through, like, like the comic that he is. You find it? Don't tell me it was taken down. No, this is too brilliant of it. One's nine minutes, one's four.

• 1:20:32Joe Rogan?

  All right, give us this one. All right. This is it.

• 1:20:36Speaker 07

  I, and I honestly mean this. I think we owe a great debt of gratitude to science. Science has, in many ways, helped ease the suffering of this pandemic,

• 1:20:54Speaker 07

  which was more than likely caused by science.

• 1:21:02Speaker 07

  So.

• 1:21:04Speaker 07

  And that's kind of...

• 1:21:06Speaker 08

  Hold on one second.

• 1:21:07Speaker 07

  No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Now, listen, listen.

• 1:21:12Speaker 08

  It's coffee. I wouldn't do that to you. I wouldn't do that to you.

• 1:21:14Speaker 07

  I'm all for spit takes.

• 1:21:15Speaker 08

  But what do you, what, what, what do you mean by, do you mean like, so perhaps there's, there's a chance that this was created in a lab? There's an investigation?

• 1:21:21Speaker 07

  A chance?

• 1:21:22Speaker 08

  Well, but...

• 1:21:22Speaker 07

  So...

• 1:21:23Speaker 08

  I, I, I, if there's evidence, I'd love to hear it.

• 1:21:25Speaker 07

  There's a novel respiratory coronavirus overtaking Wuhan, China. What do we do? Oh, you know who we could ask? The Wuhan Novel Respiratory Coronavirus Lab. The disease is the same name as the lab.

• 1:21:43Speaker 07

  That's just, that's just a little too weird, don't you think? And then they ask those scientists, they're like, how did this? So wait a minute, you work at the Wuhan Respiratory Coronavirus Lab? How did this happen? And they're like, mm, a pangolin kissed a turtle?

• 1:21:58Speaker 07

  And you're like, "No." The name of your lab, if you look at the name. Look at the name. Can I, let me see your business card. Show me your business card. "Oh, I work at the Coronavirus Lab in Wuhan." "Oh, because there's a coronavirus loose in Wuhan." "How did that happen?" "Maybe a bat flew into the cloaca of a turkey, and then it sneezed into my chili, and now we all have coronavirus." Like, "Okay, okay." What about this? What about this? Listen to this.

• 1:22:35Speaker 08

  Wait a second.

• 1:22:37Speaker 07

  All right.

• 1:22:37Speaker 08

  John.

• 1:22:38Speaker 07

  Oh, my God. Oh, my God. There's been an outbreak of chocolatey goodness near Hershey, Pennsylvania. What do you think happened? Like, "Oh, I don't know. Maybe a steam shovel made it with a cocoa bean." Or, "It's the [BLEEP] Chocolate Factory." Maybe that's it.

• 1:22:58Speaker 08

  That could be.

• 1:23:00Speaker 08

  That could be.

• 1:23:04Joe Rogan?

  Colbert kept trying to get in the way.

• 1:23:06Speaker 08

  That could be.

• 1:23:07Speaker 07

  By the way, I gave them all tuberculosis just.

• 1:23:11Speaker 08

  That could, that could very well be. And Anthony Fauci and Francis Collins and Aniher said, "Like, it should definitely be investigated."

• 1:23:17Speaker 07

  Don't stop with the logic and people and things. The name of the disease.

• 1:23:22Speaker 08

  Wait a second.

• 1:23:23Speaker 07

  The building.

• 1:23:25Speaker 08

  Wait a second. But I, it could be possible. You could be right. It could be possible that they have the lab in Wuhan to study the novel coronavirus diseases because in Wuhan, there are a lot of novel coronavirus diseases because of the bat population there.

• 1:23:43Speaker 07

  Sure, no, I understand.

• 1:23:43Speaker 08

  It's like the same, like, wait a second.

• 1:23:44Speaker 07

  It's a local specialty, and it's the only place to find bats. You won't find bats.

• 1:23:48Speaker 08

  Nobody was like saying, "Why?"

• 1:23:50Speaker 07

  "Austin, Texas, has thousands of them that fly out of a cave every night. Every night at dusk." "Is there a coronavirus? An Austin coronavirus? No, it doesn't seem to be an Austin coronavirus." "The only coronavirus we have is in Wuhan."

• 1:24:07Speaker 07

  Where they have a lab called, what's the lab called again, Stephen?

• 1:24:12Speaker 08

  The Wuhan novel coronavirus lab.

• 1:24:13Speaker 07

  I believe that's the case.

• 1:24:15Speaker 08

  And how long have you worked for Senator Ron Johnson?

• 1:24:17Speaker 07

  Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something about Ron Johnson. This is not a conspiracy. Here's the thing about science.

• 1:24:26Speaker 08

  You could be right. You could be right.

• 1:24:28Speaker 07

  But this is the problem with science. Science is incredible. But they don't know when to stop. And nobody in the room with those cats.

• 1:24:35Joe Rogan?

  He's gonna do the other thing that we already saw.

• 1:24:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:37Joe Rogan?

  The other thing, we talked about the Spanish flu, which a lot of people never heard that before either. They did what? Isn't that great? That's one of the best segments ever on late night television, ever, in the history.

• 1:24:48Speaker 03

  Emperor wears no clothes. And Colbert thinks the emperor still has a fancy robe on.

• 1:24:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is the job of comedians in society at certain times. And Jon Stewart, he held the torch.

• 1:25:02Speaker 03

  I didn't realize he was enlightened.

• 1:25:04Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's a very smart guy. He's just, he's not a bullshitter. You know, he's a very smart guy. I don't agree with him on everything, but.

• 1:25:11Speaker 03

  Has he come around on the shot?

• 1:25:13Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. I don't know, I haven't spoken to him. He lives in another state. But I love the guy, he's great. And he's.

• 1:25:22Speaker 03

  He was my favorite comedian, like when I was younger.

• 1:25:25Joe Rogan?

  He's a great comic, very funny guy and a very nice guy and very fair and honest. He's, he's a, you know, like the type of person who could do that on television in the middle of the shit, which is what it was. This was like right around the same time where the government was, where they made that, remember that release that they had? They said for the vaccinated, you've done your job, but for the unvaccinated, you're looking forward to a winter of illness and death. Severe illness and death. Severe.

• 1:25:57Speaker 03

  It's crazy.

• 1:25:58Joe Rogan?

  Severe illness and death. And this was during Omicron, which statistically was a cold.

• 1:26:03Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:26:04Joe Rogan?

  That was the one that was like, had the least mortality.

• 1:26:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:09Joe Rogan?

  So for him to do that during that time was very courageous. Like, he had to know, like, but he just had to make it really funny, which he did.

• 1:26:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:17Joe Rogan?

  He just, he, it's so preposterous, because it's so on the nose. You almost think, like, if that was in a movie, like, that would be too, like, it was a Coen Brothers movie or something, like, oh, my God, this movie's ridiculous. Like, there's no way it would be named the same as The Lab.

• 1:26:31Speaker 03

  Did he get smeared for it?

• 1:26:33Joe Rogan?

  I don't think he did. No, John skirted out of that. He had a show with Apple for a while, and it was really good. But then, I think, I don't want to speak out of turn here, but I do all the time, so I might as well. I think there was an issue with an episode they did on China. Is that the case? See if there's, like, data on that, or if there's a story on that. But they stopped doing that show. So he had, like, an Apple show.

• 1:26:59Joe Rogan?

  You know, because Apple TV produces a lot of shows now. They have Severance. You ever watch Severance?

• 1:27:04Speaker 03

  No, I'm watching Righteous Gemstones now.

• 1:27:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God, that's a good show.

• 1:27:07Speaker 03

  That's...

• 1:27:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God, that's, that is such a funny show. I didn't even hear about it until, like, this year. There's almost too many great shows.

• 1:27:15Speaker 03

  I know, it's hard to keep up.

• 1:27:16Joe Rogan?

  That show is fantastic. That show is so funny.

• 1:27:19Speaker 03

  I think it's modeled after Joel Osteen.

• 1:27:22Joe Rogan?

  Is it really?

• 1:27:23Speaker 03

  That's my theory.

• 1:27:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:24Speaker 03

  And I, I pass by his church every day, so...

• 1:27:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's something about those guys, those guys that run the mega churches, like, you gotta be crazy. Like, not one of them is like, oh, that guy makes sense.

• 1:27:37Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:27:38Joe Rogan?

  That guy seems, like, super, super reasonable, normal human being, that's like, I like that guy. I want him as my pastor. No, it's always like some complete kook. In October, the New York Times reported that Apple canceled the comedy show ahead of its third season due to creative differences and execs' concerns over Stewart's coverage of topics such as China and AI.

• 1:28:01Joe Rogan?

  Okay, the China, I get it, Apple has contracts with China, right? They have cell phones made in China. And they're, they actually have to, we did a story about that the other day, we were, read a, read a story, right? The other day about how the iPhone seventeen is so complex that it actually has to be manufactured in China? Cause they have the best manufacturing. So they must have some sort of a thing where you're like, you can't criticize, you're gonna fuck it all up for us. You're gonna fuck it all up for the production of our phones that we need, that we make all this money? Which is why we have more money than most countries.

• 1:28:33Speaker 03

  Well, I don't see how Jon Stewart would be a threat to their revenue.

• 1:28:37Joe Rogan?

  I just don't think they want him criticizing, you know, China. But the AI one is even more weird. The AI one is even more weird. Because it's like, uh, don't you think we should make fun of AI? Don't you think there should be like something that scares the shit out of people enough till they wake up? And recognize that this thing is coming at us like a freight train. There's no guardrails, no one knows what's gonna happen. And everybody's like, full steam ahead, choo choo.

• 1:29:05Speaker 03

  AI terrifies me.

• 1:29:07Joe Rogan?

  It should.

• 1:29:08Speaker 03

  It does.

• 1:29:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's cause you're intelligent, you know? I think most intelligent people are aware that this will be a change. That is akin to the asteroid that hit the Yucatan. This is gonna, this is gonna hit in some crazy way that like redefines what it means to be a human being. And it's around the corner.

• 1:29:28Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, and you know, Texas, they love AI. They're like, put a huge amount of money into AI.

• 1:29:35Joe Rogan?

  Oh, fun. Oh, fun.

• 1:29:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:37Joe Rogan?

  Choo choo.

• 1:29:39Speaker 03

  I know you love Texas, but I, I, ooh, it is not, it is not what you think.

• 1:29:45Joe Rogan?

  No, there's a lot of things.

• 1:29:45Speaker 03

  I need to wake you up on Texas.

• 1:29:47Joe Rogan?

  Well, I like the fact that it was free during the time where California was not. You could do whatever you wanted to.

• 1:29:54Speaker 03

  Relatively.

• 1:29:54Joe Rogan?

  Relatively, right. But in my business and for what I do, like the stand-up comedy and letting people tell you what you can and can't do. I don't like that.

• 1:30:03Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:30:03Joe Rogan?

  You know, and here they've had a more rebellious spirit in that regard.

• 1:30:07Speaker 03

  Well, I'd say I think healthcare though is turning Texas blue.

• 1:30:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:12Speaker 03

  We have, like Houston is home to the largest medical center in the world. And it brings in people from all over. And I think mandates started in Texas for a reason. I think they did it here to test the waters. They knew if they could get away with it in Texas, they could get away with it anywhere.

• 1:30:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, don't make me move to Florida.

• 1:30:31Speaker 03

  No, I don't even think, I know, I think Idaho. Florida's not any good either, actually.

• 1:30:36Joe Rogan?

  Idaho's cold as fuck. Jamie can't live. Look at him over there. He can't survive. He got out of Ohio and he developed thin blood.

• 1:30:44Speaker 03

  But, yeah, Texas, I just, I think it's a... We have, so Texas Medical Association, largest medical association in the country. They are really proponents of transgender surgery in minors. They are anti-free speech for physicians. They are pro mandate. They've gone after me. And they have a tight control over the people in our House and state. So, I just think we need to be careful. I mean, you saw it during the pandemic. And the medical, the economy of our state is dominated by health. And people don't realize that.

• 1:31:29Speaker 03

  They just think oil. But health is a huge dominating factor in our economy. And, you know, you saw what they did to me, what they're still doing to me. You see the mandates. And you, I don't know if you've been following what's going on in the House, but the House is, our House is divided. So, we've got the freedom, the real, true, freedom-loving representatives. And then we have these pseudo-Republicans who do control everything. But they are basically Democrats in disguise. And, I don't know, it really worries me. Idaho just passed a bill, the best medical freedom bill in the country.

• 1:32:13Speaker 03

  It eliminates all medical mandates, except for hospitals, of course. Because, but it's the first one of its kind where medical mandates are finally outlawed. Because, I mean, you think about it... All these vaccines that we have to give our kids to go to school is actually fundamentally wrong. We should not mandate any child to get a shot to go to school. And in Europe, half the countries don't have those kind of mandates. But the United States is very common. You know, all kids have to get these shots to go to school. And if you opt out, it's a big deal. And some states don't even allow it, don't even allow exemptions. So I think it's a wake up call. Like, I just, I just never thought about the whole, the

• 1:32:56Speaker 03

  fact that I had to give my kids these shots to go to school as being an issue. But now that COVID happened, I see it as a huge issue. But Florida, you know, Florida's been kind of behind it, too. Like, you know, they're not one of the states trying to get ivermectin over the counter. There were nine states that tried to pass bills banning mRNA. They all failed. But Florida wasn't one of those. So Florida worries me, too.

• 1:33:20Joe Rogan?

  Idaho.

• 1:33:21Speaker 03

  Idaho, Idaho. They have good skiing there.

• 1:33:25Joe Rogan?

  I don't ski. I quit skiing a few years back, my last accident. I'm like, I'm done.

• 1:33:33Speaker 03

  Ski, I love skiing.

• 1:33:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's fun. Don't get hurt, don't get hurt, don't get hurt. Didn't get hurt. Don't get hurt. That's how I feel every time I ski. But I've had a bunch of surgeries. That's a problem. Like, I know the vulnerability of knees. I've had three knee surgeries. It's like, it's, it's rough on you, you know. But it is fun. Whee! It's just for me, like, the juice isn't worth the squeeze. There's a bunch of other stuff that's a lot more fun that doesn't come with risk of broken bones and concussions.

• 1:34:00Speaker 03

  Yeah. I don't know. I like roller coasters for fun. Other than that, I can't.

• 1:34:04Joe Rogan?

  You're one of those.

• 1:34:05Speaker 03

  I'm not, no, I'm not full on, but I don't know, have you, the new roller coasters? Have you been on them recently?

• 1:34:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. I have kids.

• 1:34:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. They're much better. I mean, they're, it's not what the ones we grew up with.

• 1:34:16Joe Rogan?

  No, some of the ones, like Disneyland has some insane ones. The one, the Incredibles ride, if you've ever done that one.

• 1:34:22Speaker 03

  I haven't done that. I like Guardians of the Galaxy.

• 1:34:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's great. That one's fun. That one's really fun. Yeah. You know what's the best ride? It's in Disney World. It's an Avatar 3, Virtual Reality ride. It's incredible.

• 1:34:36Speaker 03

  Is that the Florida or California?

• 1:34:38Joe Rogan?

  Florida.

• 1:34:39Speaker 03

  I think I did that.

• 1:34:40Joe Rogan?

  I think it's called Flights of Fantasy or something like that. It's incredible. Like, you are one of the Avatar people and you fly around on a dragon. And it's so good. It's so good. It just, like, you feel the breeze, you feel mist in the air. At a certain point, I'm realizing while I'm doing this, I'm like, this wasn't even remotely possible just 20 years ago. Like, what is it gonna look like 20 years from now? Like, I'm not gonna have any idea. They're gonna put a helmet on me. It's gonna, like, sync up with my brain, ready, brain sync. And all of a sudden, you're gonna be in that world, you're like, whoa. And you were gonna trust those people to let us out. You know? That's 100% coming.

• 1:35:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm happy with the roller coaster. I'll stick with that.

• 1:35:22Joe Rogan?

  It's not worth it. It's not as good. You take the brain thing. Get in the Avatar world.

• 1:35:28Speaker 03

  I get sick on those rides. The ones where the 3D, I get kinda nauseated.

• 1:35:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, this one moves too. This one, you're on like a motorcycle, like a fake motorcycle. And that's to represent the dragon, you know? And you have like a handle you hold on to, and it starts moving you around and shit. So like, as you're flying, it's like, it's a full sensory experience.

• 1:35:46Speaker 03

  I think I did. I did that and my kids made fun of me because I was screaming on it.

• 1:35:50Joe Rogan?

  You did that one at Disney World?

• 1:35:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, a couple of years ago, yeah. I haven't done it since.

• 1:35:54Joe Rogan?

  It's so good. Such a good ride. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. And when you connect that to AI, so it tailors something that's specific for your whatever crazy fantasy you wanna do. We already have video games where people can murder people. Like, that's like the most popular video game is Grand Theft Auto. And one of the things that people love about it is you could just beat some mechanic to death for no reason.

• 1:36:16Speaker 03

  Do you think that allows people to get out their frustrations, though, in a healthier way?

• 1:36:21Joe Rogan?

  Perhaps. I would recommend martial arts. I think that would be a healthier way. But I think more than anything, what it does is allows you to disassociate and just to be able to, because it doesn't mean anything. It's not really a person that's getting beat to death. But the imagery is obviously of a person that's getting beat to death. And you're able to do it with no consequences, no recourse, no bad karma. You don't even feel bad, because it's a part of the game. You know, there was, what was that one where you could drag, the Wild West one, where you could beat people with whips?

• 1:36:51Joe Rogan?

  Red Dawn Redemption? Red Dead Redemption. Red Dead Redemption? Crazy games where you do horrible things to people. Like, what is it gonna be like when you have video games that are actually virtual reality, completely immersive, and you could just be a serial killer? You could be Jack the Ripper.

• 1:37:05Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:37:06Joe Rogan?

  They give you a knife, and you're now you're in London in the 1800s, and you're Jack the Ripper.

• 1:37:11Speaker 03

  Why do people create these?

• 1:37:14Joe Rogan?

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• 1:37:56Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:37Joe Rogan?

  And because ZipRecruiter helps sort through thousands of resumes and applications, showing you the most qualified and interesting ones first. There's even an option for candidates to explain why they want the job. Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your roles, seasonal or otherwise. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. That's ziprecruiter.com/rogan. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. Because they can. Right? It's like what Jon Stewart said about the nuclear bomb. Like, why'd they do that? Well, and this is the same thing. This is the parallel to the Manhattan Project, because we're not the only ones that are trying to find...

• 1:39:19Joe Rogan?

  The, the, get to the solution of what is like the ultimate expression of AI in its current form, like, super intelligent, sentient, artificial intelligence, like, something that's gonna be godlike power and ability. China's working on it, too. We have to work on it. If we don't work, like, everyone's like, "Hang on!" And we're like, "Nope, choo-choo!" Just China's working on it. We have to do it. We have to get there first. So, this is, it's just like the Manhattan Project, and I, I don't think it's gonna matter. I think, I think, once we get there, it's gonna be so weird for everybody. It's, I think civilization's gonna be an upheaval. And I think we're entirely attached to the idea that this civilization that we live under, where our money is all in, uh, hard drives, and, you know, it's

• 1:40:04Joe Rogan?

  all ones and zeros on a database somewhere, not even backed up by gold anymore. It's all super weird already. Like, this is standard forever. I don't think it is.

• 1:40:13Speaker 03

  I think, I don't know. I feel like there may be a backlash, because, you know, there's this, this wanting to do real things and do, you know, real experiences. I mean, I-

• 1:40:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there'll be a few hikers. There'll be a few hikers. A few people-

• 1:40:27Speaker 03

  I think, I mean, when you're on your computer all day, the first thing I wanna do is just get outside and, and get away from all, all of that. And so, my hope is that there'll be a backlash.

• 1:40:37Joe Rogan?

  Well, there'll be a few, right? It's just like, there's people that are still pro-vaccine today, right? They're still pro mRNA vaccine. They're like, "I can't wait for the new booster." There's people that are out there like that, right? You're always gonna have different kinds of people. You're never gonna have one thing where everybody adopts it. There's gonna be a bunch of people that wanna live a subsistence lifestyle in the woods forever. Let all those morons in New York put their helmets on and live in fucking Avatar land. I'm gonna live out here in the real world. But, if you think about how many people play games today versus how many people played games 30 years ago, it's off the charts.

• 1:41:07Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:41:08Joe Rogan?

  Right? Like, what, what are the numbers? Like, when I was a child, is when they had Pong. That was the first one. Do you remember that?

• 1:41:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, it wa, it was in the Sears store. Do you remember that? You'd go shopping for jeans and you would play the game.

• 1:41:20Joe Rogan?

  Yep. That's where you buy your tools. Yeah.

• 1:41:23Speaker 03

  Toughskins.

• 1:41:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And that was revolutionary. You could play a game on television. And it was a really simple game, you know, doot, doot, doot, doot, and you'd be playing ping-pong with this, like, slow-moving ping-pong ball. And it was fun, and we all loved it. Family would gather around, play ping-pong. And then you fast forward to Call of Duty. Like, that's insane. Like, that is insane. These kids are, they have microphones on, they're talking, they're running through Fallujah, gunning people down. Like, this is crazy.

• 1:41:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. My kids went through that phase, but they seem now to be sort of disinterested. Like, they, they kind of...

• 1:41:59Joe Rogan?

  You did a good job.

• 1:41:59Speaker 03

  Well, I didn't do anything. It just happened.

• 1:42:02Joe Rogan?

  I think a lot of kids are disinterested, because they realize that the beck and call of life and becoming a success is, you cannot get too wrapped up in these things. Because they will steal your time. And, but my point is that the amount of people that are allowing it to steal their time today, and I know you're enjoying it, don't steal your time's a bad, like, have fun, play your games. I love them, they're fun, but I can't do them, there's too much. See, they, they're too exciting, they're too good. But these are just the beginning. What, what we're experiencing now with Call of Duty and first-person shooters that everybody loves, in comparison to what's gonna happen when they put that thing on your head, and then all of a sudden you really are on Battleship Troopers, is that, what was that movie? Where they fought the aliens? Starship. Starship Troopers. Did you ever see that one?

• 1:42:46Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:42:47Joe Rogan?

  Great movie. But it's the future, or, you know, they're fighting off aliens, giant alien bugs. You could be in that. You could be in it, feel the sand on your feet, feel the wind in your face, smell the breath of the beast as you shoot it down. It's gonna be too compelling.

• 1:43:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:03Joe Rogan?

  Either that or go work at the supermarket. Near the supermarket all day. You wanna play pickup basketball? Okay, you suck at basketball, keep hitting bricks.

• 1:43:11Speaker 03

  I think the answer is roller coasters.

• 1:43:13Joe Rogan?

  No! No, no, no.

• 1:43:15Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:43:17Joe Rogan?

  I just think it's just, uh, it's a test of civilization, and it's, uh, it's probably something that is changing our species, and changing it really quickly before we even realize it. Like, just like we churn, changed wolves into dogs, it's turning us into technology-dependent, gelatinous... Water balloons of blood.

• 1:43:42Speaker 03

  That's dark.

• 1:43:43Joe Rogan?

  It is dark.

• 1:43:43Speaker 03

  They're trying, I think they'll take over doctors.

• 1:43:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're gonna. They're gonna take over lawyers, doctors. They're probably gonna take over a lot of actors. I think actors and even screenwriters are in real trouble.

• 1:43:55Speaker 03

  Wait, wait, wait. How do you take over an actor?

• 1:43:56Joe Rogan?

  Because these AI videos now are insane. They're so good.

• 1:44:01Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:44:01Joe Rogan?

  Have you ever seen the one where there's stand-up comedians talking on stage about how, uh, and there's people out there that believe that we're a prompt? Like, and like, and then they're going to people in scenes of movies that are like, like saying, do you really believe this is a prompt? And there's Vikings, like incredible Viking village where you're like walking down the village. It's all AI. And it looks like Hollywood movie quality. It looks like some crazy new blockbuster that's out about Vikings. They have Crow Magnum Man walk, you know, like, like hunting on a raft, moving through the frozen, frozen lake. It's, the whole thing is nuts. It's so good. It's so, and it keeps getting better.

• 1:44:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:43Joe Rogan?

  Like, this is insanely good compared to what just existed a couple of months ago. Like, a year ago, like, there's, you, it's unrecognizable. We could like, computers move so slow in comparison. Like, think about, when, when did, when did you first get your first computer?

• 1:45:01Speaker 03

  Hmm, probably medical school.

• 1:45:03Joe Rogan?

  What year was that?

• 1:45:04Speaker 03

  That was like nineteen ninety-eight.

• 1:45:06Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so you're probably running Windows ninety-eight, right? It kind of worked, but it was a little buggy. Sometimes it would crash. You'd get the blue screen of death. Then within like five years, they got way better. Ten years, they got way better. But now, if you look at, if you have a laptop now, in twenty twenty-five versus a laptop from twenty twenty, no difference. No, I have an old MacBook that I use sometimes.

• 1:45:29Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:45:30Joe Rogan?

  Cause I like it, cause it's clicky or keyboards. And it's fucking old as shit. It's really old. Like, it seems like a regular laptop. It's not that much different. The AI from then was nothing. It didn't exist. And now it's making movies that are off the charts. They, they unbelievably realistic.

• 1:45:49Joe Rogan?

  And this is just one version of it. They're gonna have a way better version of it a month from now, a way better version of it six months from now. And where does that end? Like, it doesn't. It doesn't end. And who knows what the news is now? You know how many times someone sent me something on Twitter and I thought, wow, that's crazy war footage? And it turns out it was just from a video game?

• 1:46:11Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:46:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that people get duped. They see a plane getting shot down. They think it's real, like, wow. No, it's just a scene in a video game.

• 1:46:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, I haven't seen these videos.

• 1:46:20Joe Rogan?

  You haven't seen?

• 1:46:21Speaker 03

  I've seen photos that look very realistic, but I haven't seen these videos. I'll have to go check that out.

• 1:46:25Joe Rogan?

  They're too good. They're too good. And this race to AI is, you know, we're all involved in it. And I worry that it's not in our best interest, just like I worry that our health system is compromised. I worry about it all. I worry, there's, there's a lot of people that are gonna be insanely wealthy, once this goes live. Like, once this goes live, the haves versus the have-nots will be so far separated.

• 1:46:56Speaker 03

  But how do you make money off of AI?

• 1:46:58Joe Rogan?

  You control everything. First of all, the stock market. You'll figure out the stock market immediately and bet insane amounts of wealth at things and compound it and figure out when to buy and when to sell instantaneously. You could even use AI to manipulate markets by having a bunch of bots tweet about something.

• 1:47:19Speaker 03

  Oh, right.

• 1:47:20Joe Rogan?

  So then you would jack up a stock price, and then you would go in and clean up. You would create crypto coins, unlimited amounts of crypto coins, dump tons of money in it, hire celebrities they wouldn't even know, hire them to promote the crypto coin, pull the wool out from everybody, make billions of dollars. And you just do that over and over and over and over again, instantaneously all around the world. Then you have all the money. Like, AI, if you're in control of AI, and AI is artificial superintelligence, and you tell it, make me as much money as you can, as quickly as possible in the stock market.

• 1:48:00Joe Rogan?

  This is what we have. We have a hundred million dollars to invest. We have a billion dollars to invest. If you're already wealthy, if you're a huge company already, you could do something like that. And who knows what kind of an effect that would have. You could manipulate world governments instantaneously. You could cut off pipelines. You could sabotage power grids. You could shut down energy plants. You could do all kinds of things. You can insert viruses into systems that control every aspect of society instantaneously. You crack, especially once they figure out how to attach AI to quantum computing, then we're doomed. Then we're really doomed. Because then you don't have any computational problems.

• 1:48:39Joe Rogan?

  You have insane amounts of computational power. And it's all in our lifetime. Like, that's what's nuts. It's like, this will be, if people survive, and, you know, there's like, a golden age, thousands of years from now, where they find the relics of this civilization, and they go look through, and they figure out how to open up hard drives. And they see us having this conversation about it.

• 1:49:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:49:06Joe Rogan?

  It's gonna be weird. It's gonna be like, oh, they saw it coming, and they did it anyway.

• 1:49:10Speaker 03

  Well, how do we stop it? I mean, I think Elon Musk was sounding the alarm, and if he can't stop it...

• 1:49:18Joe Rogan?

  Not only did he not stop it, he joined in. I think that's the idea, is that you have to do it, because other people are doing it. If they get a hold of it first, it'd be catastrophic. And I'm sure I screwed up a lot of possibilities in that little stupid rant of mine. But it's something I think people need to have in their head, because this isn't something that's not going to affect you. Like, oh, that's not gonna affect me. I don't really have to pay attention to the politics in Poland. It's not gonna affect me. You know, you can do that. With this one, you can't do it with, because it's gonna affect all of us.

• 1:49:51Joe Rogan?

  In the world, you're not gonna know what the news is. You think Rolling Stone fooled us with that stupid picture from Oklahoma with a bunch of people that are gunshot victims waiting in line?

• 1:50:00Speaker 03

  They should have used AI for their picture.

• 1:50:03Joe Rogan?

  But, yeah, right? But that's a good point, because that was only a couple of years ago. Today, they probably would. But this is, you know, that's a clear lie. And it's a bad one. What about the really good ones? The really well-coordinated ones? That are using artificial-created images? Like, how are we gonna know? How are we gonna know? Like, when I Google something, I'm not gonna go do clinical research. I'm not, I'm not gonna go test these things to make sure it's correct myself. If you're in control of all the information on the internet, like, you can instantaneously create a bunch of websites with fake data on it. You could do that easily, especially if people don't have access to the ability to actually make their own tests. You could change everything.

• 1:50:46Joe Rogan?

  If you're, you have AI, you're hacking into this, and all, all the encryption is bye-bye. Everything's bye-bye. All these little roadblocks that we kept up there to keep our feeble primate brains from cracking these codes, like, all that stuff goes away. It's gonna get real weird.

• 1:51:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:09Speaker 03

  I don't have an answer.

• 1:51:10Joe Rogan?

  I don't either.

• 1:51:11Speaker 03

  We have to go get a bunker after this podcast.

• 1:51:14Joe Rogan?

  I know. I don't, I don't think it's gonna be that bad, but I do think it's gonna be really, it's gonna change just society as we know it. I mean, there's probably gonna be a lot of good aspects of it, too. I think the medical aspect of it is pretty amazing. ChatGPT alone, when you can put in your blood work and can give you some...

• 1:51:34Speaker 03

  Well, I put in, I put in an MRI that I had, my own, and it missed it. Totally missed it, yeah. I mean, it was Grok, it was not ChatGPT, but, I don't know.

• 1:51:45Joe Rogan?

  Which one's the best at that?

• 1:51:48Speaker 03

  I don't know. I, I don't like ChatGPT, so...

• 1:51:51Joe Rogan?

  But there's, there's some other really good ones, too, right?

• 1:51:53Speaker 03

  All I use is Grok.

• 1:51:55Joe Rogan?

  That's it?

• 1:51:55Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:51:56Joe Rogan?

  You're a hardcore right-winger.

• 1:51:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:00Speaker 03

  I don't trust chat. I don't trust Grok, but I certainly don't trust chat and GPT.

• 1:52:05Joe Rogan?

  Well, I was listening to someone talk about a new program that is, you know, they have Pegasus. So Pegasus can read your phone. This new program is a zero click. It reads everything in your phone, including your encrypted messages. You have no idea if you have it on there or not. There's no way to detect it and it's been being used. It's used currently.

• 1:52:31Speaker 03

  What's the name of it?

• 1:52:32Joe Rogan?

  Um, I don't know, Jamie. See if you could find out the name of it. The old one was Pegasus. The new one is a similar preposterous name.

• 1:52:43Speaker 03

  Is it Palant- Palantir?

• 1:52:45Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. That's a different thing. I think Ian Carroll was talking about it.

• 1:52:50Joe Rogan?

  But so then, okay, so you don't have any privacy anymore. So then your text messages don't have any privacy.

• 1:52:55Speaker 03

  I just assume I don't have any privacy anymore.

• 1:52:58Joe Rogan?

  If it wasn't for Elon Musk buying Twitter, can you imagine how weird the world would be right now?

• 1:53:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, we're, I mean, it's so fortunate. I was kicked off for five months.

• 1:53:07Joe Rogan?

  What did you do to get you kicked off?

• 1:53:09Speaker 03

  I really, I was kind of timid back then compared to what I say now. I really wasn't that. But I did, I had a tweet that went viral and it was, um,

• 1:53:21Speaker 03

  America First Legal was suing the CDC over some email. I can't remember exactly, but it was something like, uh, America First Legal has just exposed the CDC and it went viral. And then that was my last tweet. It was erased for five months.

• 1:53:39Joe Rogan?

  What excuse they give you?

• 1:53:41Speaker 03

  I don't really remember, you know, violating community standards.

• 1:53:44Joe Rogan?

  Wow. What did that feel like?

• 1:53:51Speaker 03

  And then I got on, and then I tried to get on Truth and Getter, it's just not the same, right?

• 1:53:55Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:53:56Speaker 03

  You just don't get that feedback and uh...

• 1:53:58Joe Rogan?

  You know what I think about those things too? And Gab as well. I think they're all infested with like state, out of state actors, other countries, other countries' intelligence agencies, and even our own countries. And then even corporations. I think they're infected. I think even like Democratic and Republican operatives, I think a lot of the traffic is bots.

• 1:54:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, I see that on Twitter, definitely.

• 1:54:21Joe Rogan?

  100%. It's almost not worth engaging anymore. It's like, what are we doing here? Like, you're arguing with someone that's not even a real person. And I think that's like, that's a big part of it. And I think in those other alternative platforms like Truth, I think they do that to make them ridiculous for everybody else. You know, so the last thing they want is a bunch of people competing to see who's the freest.

• 1:54:44Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:54:44Joe Rogan?

  Right? So what's the best way to do that? Well, you have to sabotage this new social media platform the moment it comes out. The moment it comes out. Swastikas, you know, Peppy the Frog, the worst possible things. Post as much as you can so that this place becomes toxic.

• 1:55:01Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:55:01Joe Rogan?

  You know? So that you have to have like a zero tolerance policy like Blue Sky does. You go to Blue Sky, if you tweet, there are only two genders. Bam! Get the fuck out of here.

• 1:55:10Speaker 03

  I was on Blue Sky for a bit.

• 1:55:11Joe Rogan?

  How long? How long did you last?

• 1:55:13Speaker 03

  I don't know. Yeah, I got, I slid in before it was open to the public. And I started stirring the pot. And then I just got, and I got bored. I got in some fights with, um, god, who's that woman? Uh, she's a lawyer, she's a big vaccine enthusiast.

• 1:55:30Joe Rogan?

  Vaccine enthusiast is hilarious.

• 1:55:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, she's a...

• 1:55:32Joe Rogan?

  She really loves hockey.

• 1:55:34Speaker 03

  She's like the, she's like the female version of Hotz.

• 1:55:36Joe Rogan?

  Mmm.

• 1:55:37Speaker 03

  Um, anyway, I just got bored.

• 1:55:39Joe Rogan?

  Lena Wen?

• 1:55:39Speaker 03

  No, um...

• 1:55:42Speaker 03

  I can't remember. I know what she looks like, but I don't want to say it. I don't want to.

• 1:55:46Joe Rogan?

  No worries. You don't have to say it. So what was that like?

• 1:55:49Speaker 03

  Blue sky?

• 1:55:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, when you got into it with her.

• 1:55:53Speaker 03

  I mean, whatever. It's, yeah, I've gotten so many fights on X. It's not really, it's a, it's a, it's just funny. You know, when, when, before Methodist went after me, I got in some fights on Facebook with, you know, these private groups and there are a bunch of women that get together, the Neighborhood Women's Group.

• 1:56:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:56:13Speaker 03

  Vicious.

• 1:56:14Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:56:15Speaker 03

  Really vicious. And there was a Houston Women's Physicians Group. And they, they called me Bertha and they like started, they were like, come.

• 1:56:23Joe Rogan?

  Bertha?

• 1:56:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, they, they.

• 1:56:24Joe Rogan?

  Why Bertha?

• 1:56:25Speaker 03

  Because I got mad at them. I don't know.

• 1:56:26Joe Rogan?

  Why they call you Bertha?

• 1:56:27Speaker 03

  I don't know. They, they just, uh, they were like, we don't want you in our group. You should go find another group and you're spreading misinformation and.

• 1:56:34Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:56:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:36Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:56:36Speaker 03

  Things like that. And there was a neighborhood group that went after me. Those are more, I don't really care about the anonymous X people.

• 1:56:46Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:56:46Speaker 03

  But, and I had a couple, uh, I had Mama Dr. Jones, who has a million followers on TikTok, come after me and make videos about me and, um, another, there's this.

• 1:56:58Joe Rogan?

  Saying you spread misinformation?

• 1:57:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. And that I'm a grifter and all that.

• 1:57:02Joe Rogan?

  That's, they always throw that one.

• 1:57:04Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:57:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:06Speaker 03

  Uh, there's this pharmacist, Savannah. She goes by R Exorcist and she has an OnlyFans account as on the side. She's come after me like just vicious. I mean, these, some of these women are just.

• 1:57:20Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no.

• 1:57:21Speaker 03

  Really toxic.

• 1:57:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, when they have the right to be. That's the thing. It's like when they feel like they've got the green light to just be as evil as possible and to turn you into like some subhuman.

• 1:57:31Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:57:31Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, especially if they don't like it because you're a doctor.

• 1:57:34Speaker 05

  I just think she's so smart. Spreading that misinformation in our neighborhood.

• 1:57:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so overall, coming out of it on the other side, though, and do you feel a sense of vindication at least, like, because the public has embraced you and you've you've got a lot of followers on Twitter that support you, you know, after, I'm sure, the Danny Jones podcast, I'm sure that a lot of people were listening to your story and...

• 1:58:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, it's yes and no. I mean, I still have the medical board that I'm dealing with. Methodist Hospital just sued me. So there's just, there's still a lot of drama, unfortunately, but, you know, I have hope. There's a, there's actually a lawsuit today that's first jury trial in the country over these hospital protocols, where they had a young woman with Down syndrome. They basically euthanized her. They gave her a DNR order, even though she didn't have one, and the father has just been wonderful. It's a Shara family.

• 1:58:36Joe Rogan?

  Why did they do that? They euthanized her for what?

• 1:58:41Speaker 03

  They, I've seen this. I have reviewed records from these hospital patients, and they'll euthanize them. They, they need the bed. They say, well, they're going to die anyway.

• 1:58:51Joe Rogan?

  What was this person in the hospital for?

• 1:58:53Speaker 03

  Covid. Covid protocol, so, and...

• 1:58:57Joe Rogan?

  And they, wait, wait, wait. So they were in the hospital with Covid and they gave them something to kill them?

• 1:59:03Speaker 03

  Yeah. That happened all, I'm sorry, but, I mean, that happened. People, they give them morphine and insulin.

• 1:59:09Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 1:59:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:59:11Joe Rogan?

  That's common?

• 1:59:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I've, I've reviewed charts. In this situation, they gave her a DNR, which is do not resuscitate, meaning if they look like they're dying, you don't do anything, which that was not the case. So they're, they're suing for battery, which is one way of getting around the PREP Act, because the PREP Act is, is very hard to penetrate. The PREP Act protects everybody, all the doctors, all the hospitals, from any wrongdoing during Covid. So it's been this big challenge trying to get around the PREP Act, and this case has hope of getting around the PREP Act, because they're charging for battery, and they're, they're in trial. It started today. It's in Wisconsin.

• 1:59:55Speaker 03

  So that that gives me hope. I don't know if you've heard of Brooke Jackson, her case. She sued Pfizer. She was a whistleblower. So she was one of the heads of the research clinics, and she was in charge of overseeing the protocols. And she found that they were skipping necessary steps. They weren't following up with injuries. She basically became a whistleblower. And then they immediately fired her. And now she's suing Pfizer. But this has been going on, you know, since 2020. And the DOJ unfortunately has stepped in and tried to shut down the case, which normally DOJ comes in and helps people when they're trying to, you know, sort out

• 2:00:35Speaker 03

  a, this is a key TAM case. And I mean, it could bankrupt Pfizer, but now our own government, and even this is under Pam Bondi. So this is the new DOJ is coming in to stop this case from happening, which is bothersome. But these two cases are huge.

• 2:00:53Joe Rogan?

  What is their argument for why they're trying to stop?

• 2:00:55Speaker 03

  Because it would impact public health policies. It would go against our country's public health policies by proceeding with this case and letting it go to trial.

• 2:01:06Joe Rogan?

  How so?

• 2:01:07Speaker 03

  I don't know. Just that's their, that is basically what they said.

• 2:01:11Joe Rogan?

  Have you tried to steel man what they're saying?

• 2:01:12Speaker 03

  I mean, I'm not, it's not my case. And I don't, you know, the lawyer would probably have a better explanation. But it's just met with so many roadblocks. But...

• 2:01:23Joe Rogan?

  The euthanizing one is still stuck in my head. I just, I can't imagine that that's real.

• 2:01:28Speaker 03

  No, no, no, it is definitely real. I mean,

• 2:01:30Joe Rogan?

  So it's when they've determined that someone's gonna die anyway? Is that what it is?

• 2:01:33Speaker 03

  Right. I mean, they'll justify giving morphine because they'll say, oh, well, they're struggling to breathe. Well, guess what? Morphine actually depresses your drive to breathe. But like this one case, I remember this patient, he was sick. He looked like he was dying, but they just like pushed morphine. He had no pain. You know, they do a pain score. So zero to 10. This guy had zero pain. And then they pushed insulin to drop his sugar. And his glucose was fine. And then he died three minutes later. And, you know, I turned him into the medical board. I reviewed this chart and turned him in the medical board. Nothing. They didn't do anything. But yeah, they definitely, that definitely went on during COVID.

• 2:02:13Joe Rogan?

  Jesus.

• 2:02:16Joe Rogan?

  That is such a terrifying thought. That someone would just decide, so many people are dying, this guy's definitely gonna die.

• 2:02:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:02:24Joe Rogan?

  This is 100% real?

• 2:02:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, definitely.

• 2:02:27Joe Rogan?

  Like, definitely.

• 2:02:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's...

• 2:02:28Joe Rogan?

  It seems like something someone would tell me.

• 2:02:30Speaker 03

  They don't call it euthanasia. They don't call it euthanasia.

• 2:02:33Joe Rogan?

  It seems like something that someone would tell me, and then I would have to ask you. Like, this is something someone told me. I'm sure this is...

• 2:02:38Speaker 03

  I will send you the record that I reviewed.

• 2:02:40Joe Rogan?

  I know, but it seems like something I would be bringing up to you as a ridiculous thing, and you would shoot it down.

• 2:02:45Speaker 03

  Right. No, I wish, I wish I were, um, it's not truthful, but yeah, so definitely, definitely helped happen.

• 2:02:51Joe Rogan?

  Would you have ever imagined this before you became a doctor?

• 2:02:54Speaker 03

  No, I mean, I did, so, it's, one of my former attendings in ENT, when Katrina hit, her name is Anna Poe, she got, um, investigated for euthanizing patients in the ICU during Katrina. So they were, you know, all the power's out, there was a big hurricane, and she was going through the ICU and pushing morphine on people. Um, she got off, but that's an example. I mean, doctors will, and nurses will do that. And nurses have a, yeah, there's usually a standing order, so you can give morphine PRN as needed. So it's not always just the doctors, sometimes it's the nurses.

• 2:03:32Joe Rogan?

  Do you know how many people get assisted suicide in Canada?

• 2:03:36Speaker 03

  No. Do you?

• 2:03:38Joe Rogan?

  You ready?

• 2:03:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:03:39Joe Rogan?

  Jamie, pull the numbers up. It's crazy. It's crazy. And they'll, they'll do it if you're just depressed.

• 2:03:48Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:03:49Joe Rogan?

  They'll do it if you, you don't like being overweight. They'll do it if you, you know, whatever.

• 2:03:53Speaker 03

  It's awful. It's awful.

• 2:03:54Joe Rogan?

  I mean, they're just...

• 2:03:55Speaker 03

  It's, a lot of the vaccine injured are doing it. They're going to Switzerland, or going to Canada to have this...

• 2:04:00Joe Rogan?

  The Canada numbers are bananas. Like, you see, like, this can't be true. This can't be true. And here it is. More than 15,000 people.

• 2:04:14Joe Rogan?

  Received medical assisted assistance in dying in Canada in 2023.

• 2:04:20Joe Rogan?

  What is it in 2024 now? This is an old story. So imagine 2025, we're, we're, they're, this is crazy. 15,000 people. They've helped them die instead of like help them live. Instead of like, we used to call suicide hotline, hey, don't do it, Bob. You know, and now Canada's like, come on in.

• 2:04:39Speaker 03

  Press one if you want the suicide.

• 2:04:41Joe Rogan?

  I'll make an appointment for you, eh? Come on in, eh? You know, shouldn't we be helping people get past that? Isn't that the goal? Like, hey, maybe, maybe we can get you healthy. Maybe we can get you feeling better, you know? Maybe we can do something about all your hormone levels and all the things wrong with your body. Maybe that's why you're depressed and God.

• 2:05:03Joe Rogan?

  I mean, there's legitimate reasons for people to do it. Don't get me wrong. If you're like, I know a guy did it, Michael Laer, who was a hilarious comedian. And he had ALS and it got real bad at the end. And he knew I'm getting any better. And so he went to Oregon where they can do it for you. And I get it. I get that one. But if you're depressed, Jesus Christ, that's it.

• 2:05:26Speaker 03

  Well, the worst is the vaccine injured because they're just, they've lost hope.

• 2:05:29Joe Rogan?

  Right. And they've been gaslit. That's what's so crazy about this. And people have helped them with it. There's a bunch of people that were, they're, they feel really guilty about pushing the vaccine early on. And they feel connected to it and they'll still put these blinders on and like choose to pretend that it saved millions of lives. And keep pushing forward with the same narrative and

• 2:05:54Joe Rogan?

  they'll, they do the man's work for the man, unfortunately, in social circles. You know, like you're, you're, you're punished, you're punished for having any sort of heterodox views. Anything that steps outside.

• 2:06:10Joe Rogan?

  Anything that could get you in trouble, anything that people could argue like, oh, she shouldn't even live in our neighborhood, you know, she doesn't even want a vaccine for her kids, anything like that, people are scared of that. And so, just the fear of being ostracized from your community.

• 2:06:26Speaker 03

  But, once you get past it, it's so freeing.

• 2:06:29Joe Rogan?

  Well, you look free now.

• 2:06:31Speaker 03

  You don't care at all.

• 2:06:32Joe Rogan?

  Are you kinda, I mean, I know you're not happy that it happened, but are you kind of, you clearly have probably come out of it, a person with a different perspective.

• 2:06:40Speaker 03

  Definitely, definitely. I don't, I mean, I don't regret it. It's been a roller coaster. But, it's a, yeah, I feel free. Like, you can't really say anything to me anymore that would hurt me.

• 2:06:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. That's a good place to be.

• 2:06:57Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:06:58Joe Rogan?

  It is. And, you know, I really admire people like you, that you weren't a public person, you weren't a person who sought attention. But, when, you know, you were thrown into this battle, and you've handled yourself really, really well. It's very impressive. Because I can't imagine the stress, like, when you're saying you're in the fetal position for two days, I'm like, how'd you ever get up?

• 2:07:21Speaker 03

  I know.

• 2:07:22Joe Rogan?

  I mean...

• 2:07:23Speaker 03

  I know. Well, it was the anger that helped me. Anger can help you.

• 2:07:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. When you came out of it on the other end, like, are you happy that it happened?

• 2:07:35Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, I, it's, yeah, I'm ready to rest. I'm exhausted. But, like I said, I mean, I feel free. I think you grow when you go through difficult times. I certainly learned a lot about taking care of patients, and, you know, I made so many assumptions before. I feel like I'm a much better doctor. I am utterly exhausted, though, I will say that, and I'm ready for a break. And I'm frustrated that this, I don't, you know, what's going on now with the new administration is not giving me a lot of hope. But...

• 2:08:13Joe Rogan?

  Everyone's hope is that there's incremental change, that it's gonna take a while to get through some hurdles. That's everybody's hope. But, you know... It's how many administrations have these incredible promises? And then the same thing with the Obama administration, you know? There was a lot of these people, like we had these amazing hopes. The whole world's going to change now. And then, oh geez, same thing, same thing, over and over again. Same thing, more corruption, more people getting paid.

• 2:08:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, people are mad at me because I keep criticizing Kennedy and Maha. But I'm like, what's the downside? You know, we have to keep pressing. We have to just pound away and not let, you know, be the squeaky wheel and just remind them what we want.

• 2:08:59Joe Rogan?

  Right, we wanted facts. We wanted to stop being lied to. We wanted no more propaganda. We wanted to know the truth about all sorts of different medications and why they're prescribed and why we're the sickest ever. Why, why are we so sick? Why are we the nation that has so much money and spends so much on healthcare has the sickest people? That doesn't make any sense. That, that doesn't seem like a good system.

• 2:09:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09:21Joe Rogan?

  You can't just say this system has to stay like it is forever for the safety of everyone, like.

• 2:09:26Speaker 03

  I'm fully on board with Maha's message about addressing chronic disease. Fully on board with that. I just find it troubling that they are not talking about mRNA. There is nothing in that Maha report about mRNA.

• 2:09:39Joe Rogan?

  What do you think would cause that? Do you think they have, someone sits them down?

• 2:09:44Speaker 03

  Well, they're going to say it's strategy. Others think it could be a misdirection strategy, not just a, okay, we're trying to get where you, what you want, we're just going out about it a different way. Or we're, we're doing this to completely distract everybody from the elephant in the room. That's my concern.

• 2:10:03Joe Rogan?

  What's the elephant?

• 2:10:05Speaker 03

  mRNA, the COVID shot, the pandemic, the biggest health crisis.

• 2:10:08Joe Rogan?

  I see what you're saying.

• 2:10:09Speaker 03

  And the biggest health crisis in our generation.

• 2:10:14Speaker 03

  That directly impacted every single person. And we're not talking about it.

• 2:10:18Joe Rogan?

  Right. Do you think that the strategy, if you had to look at it from the best case scenario, like the strategy would be get some things changed, like stop mandating it for children and pregnant women, and then more and more studies can get released, more and more data can get pushed forward.

• 2:10:39Speaker 03

  We have so much data.

• 2:10:41Joe Rogan?

  Right, but we need to get the narrative out there because there's going to be people that vote against it. So if you didn't get it in the first time.

• 2:10:47Speaker 03

  Kennedy, Kennedy doesn't need any votes. He's got the power. He could, a stroke of a pen.

• 2:10:52Joe Rogan?

  So where do you think the politics come from then? If you have that mandate, that's what you want to do when you get in.

• 2:10:57Speaker 03

  What has happened?

• 2:10:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:10:59Speaker 03

  Is somebody, what's, does somebody have something on him? Why is he not acting? Because if it were me, I mean, maybe people say, well, he'll get fired. So what? Get fired, go down kamikaze, save the world from mRNA. Because if he, if he takes it off the market, so hard to get it back on.

• 2:11:16Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:11:17Speaker 03

  Stroke of a pen.

• 2:11:19Joe Rogan?

  You ever talk to him?

• 2:11:21Speaker 03

  No, I've, I've met him once. I like, I like not knowing him, though. I don't want to feel like.

• 2:11:26Joe Rogan?

  Right, you're obligated to support him.

• 2:11:28Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 2:11:29Joe Rogan?

  Right. That's great of you. Yeah, that's very smart. Unfortunately, I know him. And I like him.

• 2:11:34Speaker 03

  Well, and I think the people in my circle who know him are now being quiet because they have a relationship with him and they don't want to offend him, which I understand.

• 2:11:43Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:11:44Speaker 03

  But I feel like I'm not there, so I'm just going to, you know, I can't read minds. I don't have any inside information, so I'm just going to call it as I see it.

• 2:11:55Joe Rogan?

  You should. Yeah, I think we can't, you know, you can't turn blinders on either side with anybody without anything. Just because someone's on your team, if they're doing something that you think is goofy and doesn't make any sense, like this could be a real problem, you got to say it.

• 2:12:11Speaker 03

  Right. I think you're ethically obligated. I mean, this is, this is, and. Yeah, I started a organization called Americans for Health Freedom to try to find the politicians with moral courage to simply state that the COVID shot should be pulled off the market. And it has been slow growing, but we are up to 252 politicians who will go on record just to state that these shots should be pulled off the market. But it's a problem. I mean, you know, these politicians are not getting these shots anymore, and they're not giving them to their kids. And yet, they're fine just staying quiet and not saying anything. They're fine letting their constituents get these shots when we know all the complications. We know that it doesn't work.

• 2:12:56Speaker 03

  We know that the risk far outweighs the benefit, and the politicians are staying quiet.

• 2:13:02Joe Rogan?

  It's wild.

• 2:13:03Speaker 03

  So, our goal is to support the ones who will speak up and get them more power.

• 2:13:10Joe Rogan?

  Isn't it kind of impressive, though, what money can do? It's kind of impressive. You get everybody to just shut their mouth. It's kind of impressive.

• 2:13:17Speaker 03

  Well, money and power. I think there are a lot of people that, you know, they'll kiss the ring.

• 2:13:21Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, definitely.

• 2:13:23Speaker 03

  If you, yeah, those of us that don't want power, don't want a position, don't, it's also very freeing because you can, you don't need anything from them.

• 2:13:34Joe Rogan?

  But it's just, it's such a bizarre time because all these things that we've always held as being sacred forever are now being challenged. And one of them is the fluoride in the water. That's a big one. And to watch that guy argue against fluoride being removed from the water, watching Kennedy and him argue, it was like, it's hilarious.

• 2:13:55Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:13:56Joe Rogan?

  Like, the argument for keeping it in the water is so dumb.

• 2:13:59Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:14:00Joe Rogan?

  It literally lowers IQs. Or at least, it's correlated with a very, the decrease in IQ measurable.

• 2:14:06Speaker 03

  Well, and I agree with that. I just, on the flip side of that, though, we are seeing, like, what I see in my office is people maybe taking things too far, you know, off the beaten path.

• 2:14:19Speaker 03

  And like this Maha report, one thing I have a real bone to pick with is they've basically waged war on tonsillectomies and ear tubes.

• 2:14:28Joe Rogan?

  What is an ear tube?

• 2:14:29Speaker 03

  So kids, well not adults too, but mostly kids that have middle recurrent or chronic middle ear infections, they get fluid stuck in their middle ears, and so you put a tube in there.

• 2:14:39Joe Rogan?

  To drain it.

• 2:14:40Speaker 03

  To drain it and keep it from coming back. It's a, I mean, it takes five minutes, they get anesthesia, but they get a gas, you know, they don't get a, you know, a super heavy anesthesia, and it's very rare to have a complication. You know, I'm not for just frivolous surgery, but I feel like this one is, it really can make a huge difference in their quality of life, the parents' quality of life, because they're

• 2:15:03Joe Rogan?

  The kids in pain.

• 2:15:05Speaker 03

  Off antibiotics, you know, you get an adult with a middle ear infection, it will bring them to their knees, so these ear infections can be really painful, you know, they don't have to take all those antibiotics. But this Maha report just came out and said that, they called it proven harmful, the tonsillectomy and adenoidectomy, ear tubes, proven harmful for kids. And that is just

• 2:15:31Joe Rogan?

  How could the ear tube be, what were they saying, how is it proven harmful? It drains the kid's ear.

• 2:15:37Speaker 03

  It was completely unnecessary, and it was just all, you know, basically done for money, makes no difference in overall outcome in the child.

• 2:15:47Joe Rogan?

  But, you know Doesn't it alleviate pressure, like logically?

• 2:15:51Speaker 03

  Yes, and hearing, and the other thing is here, I mean, the biggest issue is you've got a bunch of fluid in your ear, it does affect hearing, and when you're trying to develop speech, that can be problematic.

• 2:16:02Joe Rogan?

  So, what do you think they're doing? Like, why are they going after those two things?

• 2:16:07Speaker 03

  I just think it's an example of this gone too far in the other direction, right?

• 2:16:11Joe Rogan?

  Okay, too woo woo.

• 2:16:12Speaker 03

  Too, yeah, let's reject all of science, right?

• 2:16:17Joe Rogan?

  Right. So tell me about tonsillectomies, because I'm ignorant. I'd heard that, you know, you should, if you have tonsillitis, you got to get it removed, and then I've heard you should never get them removed.

• 2:16:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know, it's gone, it's swung in both directions. So it used to be, you line up the kids, we're all going to get the tonsils out on Friday, and the whole family did it, and it was just done, right, for no reason. It's gotten way more conservative now. Now, the main indication in young children is when the tonsils get really big, they block the breathing. So, kids will come in, they're snoring really loudly, they're waking up a lot, they're thrashing around in bed, they're wetting their bed, they may be, have behavioral problems during the day because they're not getting good sleep. Take out the tonsils, you know, they've got these massive tonsils, and you take them out, and most parents will notice a huge improvement.

• 2:17:05Speaker 03

  The other indication is recurrent infection, and you have to have a lot to meet the criteria. But, sometimes the infections get so bad that you get an abscess in the throat. It's called a peritonal abscess. That is no fun. You have to drain it, you know, by the bedside with the patient awake, and so you make a big cut in their throat, and then you take a suction and get all this pus out. It's bad.

• 2:17:28Joe Rogan?

  Why are they awake?

• 2:17:29Speaker 03

  It's really bad.

• 2:17:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God. And they do that to kids?

• 2:17:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, it tends to happen in young adults more than kids. I don't think I've ever seen one in a really young kid, but...

• 2:17:40Joe Rogan?

  So, after the draining and all that jazz, it gets to a point where you're like, you should just remove the tonsils?

• 2:17:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's basically, okay, at this point, you should get your tonsils out, because they tend to come back. The other issue is tonsil stones, which are, the tonsils have these crypts in them, and they collect debris.

• 2:17:56Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no. Tonsil stones.

• 2:17:59Speaker 03

  And you can't really get rid of those. I think Suzanne Humphrey's talked about that, and she has a formula that you can do without having to do surgery. I mean, there's always, it's not a life-threatening condition, you do not have to get your tonsils out for them, but it's a quality of life, and personally, I got mine out for tonsil stones, and I'm very glad I did.

• 2:18:18Joe Rogan?

  Does it affect any other aspect of your body? Like, does it affect your immune system or anything?

• 2:18:23Speaker 03

  Well, there's a ring of tissue back there. So, you've got the tonsil, it's called Waldyer's ring. You've got the adenoid, which is in the back of the nose, and then you've got your tonsils, and then you've got the same tissue in the back of your tongue. So, it's a ring of tissue. So, even taking out the tonsils, you're still, and the most, the bulk of that lymphatic tissue is in the back of your tongue. So, you're not getting rid of the entire immune defense system in the back of your throat when you take out the tonsils.

• 2:18:49Joe Rogan?

  What do the tonsils function?

• 2:18:51Speaker 03

  They produce white blood cells.

• 2:18:53Joe Rogan?

  Ooh, I wouldn't want to get rid of that.

• 2:18:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, but you have the same tissue in the back of the tongue. And you don't, you don't just go in there willy nilly. I mean, there's.

• 2:19:01Joe Rogan?

  I would take the suction. I'd like suck it out. Suck out that pus.

• 2:19:05Speaker 03

  You would? You wouldn't get your tonsils out?

• 2:19:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, definitely not.

• 2:19:07Speaker 03

  Really?

• 2:19:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, if all I had to do is get the pus sucked out, I would do that.

• 2:19:10Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no. It's really bad.

• 2:19:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm sure.

• 2:19:12Speaker 03

  It like cuts off your breathing too, when it happens. People are drooling, they can't swallow. It's an emergency.

• 2:19:18Joe Rogan?

  During the operation, you mean?

• 2:19:20Speaker 03

  No, when they come in, when it happens. I mean, it's an emergency.

• 2:19:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:24Speaker 03

  It's life threatening.

• 2:19:26Joe Rogan?

  How many times have people done it before they just said, "Snip"? If you have anybody who hung in there for like six or seven infections?

• 2:19:32Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, I've had one. I think I had three.

• 2:19:35Joe Rogan?

  That was it, huh?

• 2:19:35Speaker 03

  I'd bring her in and try to nip it in the bud with antibiotics, but yeah, she finally.

• 2:19:41Joe Rogan?

  Yikes. Yeah, that, that is, uh, gotta be the most satisfying thing about your job though, is that you could help people like that that come in and have something really wrong and you go, "I gotcha."

• 2:19:51Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, you fix it right there. I love it.

• 2:19:54Joe Rogan?

  Which is, you know, what everybody wants from their doctor. That's what you want. I mean, that's the best kind of doctor. Someone just wants to make you feel better. And unfortunately, when the medical profession is connected to all these things that we've already talked about today, it gives people a bad feeling about doctors who are like, "God, if it wasn't for doctors, I wouldn't even be able to walk." I had both of my ACLs reconstructed. I'd have wobbly knees that gave out all the time, you know? My nose wouldn't work. I, I, I think doctors are like one of the most important things that we have. But like every great thing, it can be co-opted with money.

• 2:20:34Joe Rogan?

  Money sneaks in and distorts all the values and then it becomes a different thing. It doesn't become a thing where everybody gets really wealthy because they're great doctors and they help people and that's what you want to do. My son's a doctor. Oh, he must be doing great. And he's helping people. Yeah, that's great. Like instead of that, it's you're a money-making machine. And you have insane debt. They want to keep you saddled down with these insane bills that you have already from college. My buddy was an ophthalmologist. I think he said when he got into practice, he already owed a quarter million dollars.

• 2:21:09Speaker 03

  My, my medical school was cheaper than my kindergarten, actually.

• 2:21:13Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:21:14Speaker 03

  Yes, because I went to a private school. And then I went to a state school for medical schools.

• 2:21:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's great.

• 2:21:19Speaker 03

  That was 20 years ago, but still.

• 2:21:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, my friend was a long time ago as well. But, you know, the people that can get through that are extraordinary people. The, just the boot camp of residency.

• 2:21:31Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 2:21:32Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 2:21:33Speaker 03

  Brutal, it's.

• 2:21:34Joe Rogan?

  It doesn't even, like, why would you take a thing that requires the human mind to operate at a very high level? And introduce it to incredible stress, no sleep, working insane hours?

• 2:21:47Speaker 03

  It's a rite of passage. I, I feel tougher because I survived it. I mean, I, I used to.

• 2:21:53Joe Rogan?

  It's your boot camp.

• 2:21:54Speaker 03

  It's like prison. That's what I looked at it. I mean, because you lose all, you have no control over your time, when you can eat, when you can sleep. The, the personalities are toxic, like.

• 2:22:06Joe Rogan?

  No one has any sleep. Everyone's a maniac.

• 2:22:08Speaker 03

  Well, but the, the ones, you know, in charge get sleep, but they're, some of them are.

• 2:22:13Joe Rogan?

  It's like the Stanford prison guard experiment.

• 2:22:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, super.

• 2:22:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they have the power.

• 2:22:16Speaker 03

  Throwing instruments, screaming at you.

• 2:22:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy, fun, fun, fun, fun.

• 2:22:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:22:21Joe Rogan?

  My friend Steve, the ophthalmologist, told me at his lowest, in his residency, he was eating his, eating his dinner while he was on the toilet. Because he didn't have time to do anything, and he fell asleep. And then when he fell asleep, his pager woke him up.

• 2:22:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:22:38Joe Rogan?

  Because he had to go back to work.

• 2:22:39Speaker 03

  Pager, the, oh, the beeper, the beeper, yeah.

• 2:22:42Joe Rogan?

  That's what he had. That's what he had, a beeper.

• 2:22:43Speaker 03

  The little black box.

• 2:22:44Joe Rogan?

  Little thing, eh, and a number pops up and, yeah, that's, and, see, like, that was the lowest in my life.

• 2:22:50Speaker 03

  It was, it was really, really, really hard. I don't know how people have children and go through residency. I have, it's.

• 2:22:56Joe Rogan?

  Insane, insane. I don't know how people do it.

• 2:22:58Speaker 03

  Another level of torture, but.

• 2:23:01Joe Rogan?

  No, it's, it's incredible. I mean, it's, it's such a, the amount of character you have to have to be able to go through that and still keep a bedside manner and still be polite to your coworkers. Like, it's a developer of character. It's like creating a diamond. And that's what we all want. We all like our doctors to be like you, you know? That's what we want, you know, and it's just, it just sucks when you have to connect it to all this stuff that we've talked about today. It's like, why is it that too? Like, why is it that too? Why, why is it the people that do want to help people and also a whole industry that's incentivized to just stuff as many chemicals into your body as humanly possible? Because that's how they profit.

• 2:23:45Speaker 03

  Yeah. I don't know if it's all about profit. I think, I don't know. I think doctors-

• 2:23:50Joe Rogan?

  It's power?

• 2:23:50Speaker 03

  Well, and I think doctors are a certain type of people. Like, we, to get through that, you have to be very compliant. You don't challenge. You are a rule follower. I mean, you gotta make straight A's. You gotta get along with people.

• 2:24:05Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:24:05Speaker 03

  You can't be a rebel and survive it all. And so I think that's one of the huge problems. I mean, I think it's worse than it used to be. I mean, I remember some of my attendings were very unconventional. But I just feel like now, it's, they're just breeding conformity. And I, I am just naturally very independent. I mean, my practice is, I call myself third-party free because I don't contract with anybody. I don't contract with insurance companies, the hospital, or the government. And that served me very well during the pandemic. But most doctors are working for somebody and have to sort

• 2:24:47Speaker 03

  of answer to a third party. And that was a big problem during the pandemic.

• 2:24:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I can imagine. And I, and I can imagine also, after something like the pandemic, the compliant are the ones that are left standing. You know? So that makes more people under them, right? They're the ones that are still there.

• 2:25:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, they destroyed our profession. I mean, people don't trust doctors anymore.

• 2:25:12Joe Rogan?

  Which is so crazy.

• 2:25:13Speaker 03

  People are scared to go to the hospital. I mean, that's- It's not good.

• 2:25:18Joe Rogan?

  Well, when people find out that doctors are incentivized to push certain medications, and they find out they're financially incentivized, they're like, no way. Like, when you hear about, like, the financial incentives, even for things like chemotherapy, which led that one doctor that was arrested, who was running, he was an oncologist, and he gave a bunch of people chemotherapy that didn't even have cancer. He just diagnosed them, say, he got cancer. And then he gave them this poison because he wanted to make money.

• 2:25:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, and they're bad apples like that. But I guess what's disappointing is how many doctors complied during the pandemic, right? I mean, that's what's so disheartening.

• 2:25:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:57Speaker 03

  And they still, I mean, I still, I don't think I could go to a medical meeting and be warmly embraced. I wouldn't, I don't think I would. I still feel like an outlier.

• 2:26:09Joe Rogan?

  The same thing was happening with comedians. Yeah, during the pandemic, there was very few, like Jon Stewart. And what he was just doing is about, is the actual root of the virus, where it came from. But no one was doing, I mean, if you were doing it about vaccines, you would be ostracized.

• 2:26:28Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:26:28Joe Rogan?

  You know, it would be, it would be a real problem amongst comedians, which is so crazy. It's like, we're supposed to be the people that are calling things out. We're supposed to be the people that are going, um, what the fuck is this? We're supposed to be those people. And instead, we're chastising the people that are doing our job, which is to talk about these things.

• 2:26:45Speaker 03

  All right.

• 2:26:46Joe Rogan?

  And when you see these people that are doctors complying, just being compliant during COVID, like,

• 2:26:56Joe Rogan?

  where does it, like, do you feel like you have a community now? Do you have to, like, find the other outsiders, the other outcasts, and all stick together?

• 2:27:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'll say that. I have a great little community now, very tight.

• 2:27:08Joe Rogan?

  Is it those kind of people?

• 2:27:09Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I...

• 2:27:13Speaker 03

  Like, I just wouldn't go to the Harris County Medical Society meeting in a million years. I wouldn't show up there and mingle. I don't, um, because I'm just not getting a sense that there's been much change within the medical profession.

• 2:27:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I wouldn't want to talk to those people if I was you. How could it be changed? Unless a bunch of people got fired and a bunch of radical newcomers came in, wanted to reform the whole system. No, it's gonna be the same system.

• 2:27:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:27:40Joe Rogan?

  Those systems are old. Those systems are like, you know, like vampire blood. It's passed down through the generations, you know?

• 2:27:47Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:27:47Joe Rogan?

  They know how to make money. And it's not by some renegade lady out there giving horse dewarmer to all these people.

• 2:27:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:27:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:59Speaker 03

  We'll see. I just, uh, we just need to hope that Kennedy will, will save us all.

• 2:28:07Joe Rogan?

  Well...

• 2:28:08Speaker 03

  Or Trump. Would you think Trump will ever back down?

• 2:28:10Joe Rogan?

  About what?

• 2:28:11Speaker 03

  The shots?

• 2:28:12Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. I haven't had a conversation with him about that. I would like to have one. And, uh, I don't know if it should be public. I think I'd like to have it privately so he could actually talk to me about it. Because I think if I had it publicly, he would be very hesitant to, uh, accept any of the blame for that. Because, you know, he was always saying, you know, "I got it, I got it out there." The vaccine. And he was, he would always say it at the rallies, talk about the vaccine, and people start booing. And he didn't know why. He didn't understand why. And then they had to start telling him, like, people are not into this. They think it was a bad thing, and a lot of people know people that are hurt. He was, he obviously got it. He didn't get sick. Oh, he got monoclonal antibodies, and then afterwards he got vaccinated, right?

• 2:28:54Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 2:28:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah, which is crazy. It's crazy they did that. Like, that was one of the nuttiest things. So you're gonna get vaccinated now that you've got COVID?

• 2:29:01Speaker 03

  Right after you get sick, right.

• 2:29:01Joe Rogan?

  Like, since when? Since when do you do that?

• 2:29:03Speaker 03

  It makes absolutely no sense.

• 2:29:05Joe Rogan?

  When I had a conversation with Sanjay Gupta, he was asking me, "Are you gonna get vaccinated now?"

• 2:29:09Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:29:10Joe Rogan?

  I was like, "Why would I do that? I don't even, why are you, what are you..." Like, I'm not trying to be, uh, a contrarian. I really want to know. Like, why would I do that? That didn't even make sense.

• 2:29:21Speaker 03

  Well, they may think, you know, it's kind of like the flu. You gotta get the flu shot every year, 'cause then you strain. But this, each strain gets progressively weaker, right?

• 2:29:29Joe Rogan?

  Did you see the Cleveland Clinic study on people who took the flu shots?

• 2:29:32Speaker 03

  Right, right. Oh, yeah. The flu shot is a total joke. So the flu shot has never been shown to prevent hospitalization or death.

• 2:29:39Joe Rogan?

  What is it supposed to do? Keep you from getting the flu? Does it do that at all?

• 2:29:42Speaker 03

  Maybe shorten or lessen the severity. But we have medications for that. Now, I haven't seen the carnage from flu shots that I've seen from COVID shots, but definitely people do have issues. But that was never taught to me. Yeah, I just assumed, oh, yeah, flu. I actually ended up with sepsis and I, with the flu, in ICU, and I'd gotten a flu shot. Not that, you know, but...

• 2:30:05Joe Rogan?

  But you always believed in the flu shot?

• 2:30:07Speaker 03

  I just assumed it was fine. Yeah, I knew it wasn't perfect, but I didn't, I'd never knew that, oh, yeah, it doesn't really actually do anything. Doesn't save people.

• 2:30:17Joe Rogan?

  When did you discover this? When you're going through all your stuff with COVID? There was a, I think the Cleveland Clinic study said that people who took the flu shot

• 2:30:26Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, more.

• 2:30:27Joe Rogan?

  were 24% more likely to get the flu.

• 2:30:29Speaker 03

  Or get other respiratory illnesses.

• 2:30:31Joe Rogan?

  Got other respiratory illnesses.

• 2:30:32Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:30:33Joe Rogan?

  Okay. Is that what the results said? You're 24% more likely to get sick.

• 2:30:36Speaker 03

  Well, it challenges your immune system. All these things do.

• 2:30:41Joe Rogan?

  But it doesn't prevent you from getting the flu?

• 2:30:43Speaker 03

  Well...

• 2:30:44Joe Rogan?

  It can.

• 2:30:45Speaker 03

  It can, but the numbers are dismal.

• 2:30:47Joe Rogan?

  But how would you know? Because not everybody gets the flu.

• 2:30:49Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 2:30:50Joe Rogan?

  Right? Like, I've had kids, my kids get the flu, and I don't get it. And I hug them, I'm around them, and I didn't get it. I've had that happen before.

• 2:30:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:30:58Joe Rogan?

  Right? That can happen.

• 2:31:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:31:00Joe Rogan?

  So it's like, how do you know if the flu shot did it or not? Because, you know?

• 2:31:03Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:31:04Joe Rogan?

  And I didn't take the flu shot.

• 2:31:05Speaker 03

  Right. Well, yeah, well, it's, it's...

• 2:31:08Joe Rogan?

  But you know what I mean? Like, how would they prove, like, what's effective and what's not effective if you have situations like that?

• 2:31:13Speaker 03

  I guess if they take large, you know, you get enough people, you can find it.

• 2:31:16Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:31:17Speaker 03

  You have to have a large study, but...

• 2:31:19Joe Rogan?

  Seems sus, as the kids like to say.

• 2:31:23Speaker 03

  Very.

• 2:31:24Joe Rogan?

  It seems super sus. Like, how do you know if some people don't get it? Like, did you check to see?

• 2:31:30Speaker 03

  Well, they have, like, an infection, you know, they have a, okay, how many people are supposed to get it? They can kind of tell that.

• 2:31:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:31:35Speaker 03

  I'll say that.

• 2:31:36Joe Rogan?

  Right. Meanwhile, that was the nutty thing, where they were suppressing stuff like vitamin D.

• 2:31:42Speaker 03

  Right. Vitamin D, there's good data on that.

• 2:31:44Joe Rogan?

  Really good data.

• 2:31:45Speaker 03

  And I, yeah, I looked, I check my, I check vitamin D levels on all my patients now, and I look back at all the patients I tested, it was something crazy, like 75% of them, their vitamin D level was too low. And these are like norm, you know, these are not, like, super sick people. A lot, most of those people are actually even already taking a supplement. People don't realize how common it is.

• 2:32:09Joe Rogan?

  It's so common that I think the number was 74% of people in the country are deficient in vitamin D.

• 2:32:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that's what I I found.

• 2:32:18Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. That's so crazy. And a friend of mine is a doctor. He was working in New York. And he found that in the wintertime in New York, he would get people and he would test their blood and they would have undetectable levels.

• 2:32:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, I believe it.

• 2:32:31Joe Rogan?

  Because it's cold out.

• 2:32:33Speaker 03

  You're never outside?

• 2:32:33Joe Rogan?

  They're all bundled up. They're never outside, so they get no vitamin D. And they don't take supplements. They're just eating cheeseburgers.

• 2:32:39Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:32:39Joe Rogan?

  And they they're really sick and they want to know why. Why am I so depressed? Well, this is why. Your body's falling apart.

• 2:32:44Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 2:32:45Joe Rogan?

  You gotta take vitamin D. And you gotta take it with vitamin K2. And you should take it with magnesium, too. You want it all to absorb together. And get outside, stupid.

• 2:32:52Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:32:53Joe Rogan?

  Go hug a tree, bro. It's like, it's actually important, which is more woo woo stuff, right? Like, going outside is actually like a vitamin.

• 2:33:01Speaker 03

  Oh, well, after I've been in my office all day and I go outside, it's like I instantly have energy and feel so much better. Just just going outside. I mean, it's, you don't need a study to show that.

• 2:33:12Joe Rogan?

  But it's really good for you. It actually, it doesn't just feel good. It's actually really good for you.

• 2:33:16Speaker 03

  But there's a reason it feels good, right?

• 2:33:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Sun on your skin is actually really good for you, you know, and that's the very best way your body produces vitamin D. You can take it in a supplement, and you definitely should. But the best way is let your body do it.

• 2:33:31Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 2:33:31Joe Rogan?

  It wants to do it.

• 2:33:32Speaker 03

  And I used to just slather sunscreen on all my kids, like religiously. Ah, I'm so mad.

• 2:33:39Joe Rogan?

  That was another one that woke me up during the pandemic.

• 2:33:42Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:33:42Joe Rogan?

  When I was like, climate change is killing the coral reef. And then that reef, I think it's in Australia. So they locked everything down. No one could go in the water for like six months. And the reef bounced back.

• 2:33:54Speaker 03

  Oh, because there's no sunscreen?

• 2:33:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the sunscreen. If you just think about the stuff that we lather on our skin before we jump in the water. And if you go to a populated beach, like, you ever been to, like, Maui?

• 2:34:05Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:34:06Joe Rogan?

  In the middle of, like, full vacation season, the beach is just filled with people that are squeaking out toxic fluid.

• 2:34:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:34:15Joe Rogan?

  And that stuff just gets all in the water. You could see it in the water sometimes. You see like a little mini oil slick.

• 2:34:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:34:21Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy. And that's what was killing the coral reef. We're like, no, man, it's climate. It's the climate change. No, it's, we're doing it with sunscreen, believe it or not. And we're probably not doing anything good to ourselves either with that stuff.

• 2:34:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. They say, I haven't tested this, they say if you eliminate seed oils, that you don't burn.

• 2:34:41Joe Rogan?

  Who's they?

• 2:34:42Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 2:34:43Joe Rogan?

  Who are those people?

• 2:34:43Speaker 03

  This is probably something on TikTok.

• 2:34:45Joe Rogan?

  That's probably this Russian disinformation bot that's trying to give people skin cancer.

• 2:34:50Speaker 03

  No, I'm on these group chats with a bunch of doctors and so stuff like that floats around. And I get that was.

• 2:34:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, everything's tied to inflammation, right? A lot of ailments, I shouldn't say everything, but a lot of ailments are tied to inflammation. And seed oils are known to cause inflammation, right?

• 2:35:06Speaker 03

  That being said, that being said, when I was, last time I was at Disney.

• 2:35:13Joe Rogan?

  What'd you do?

• 2:35:14Speaker 03

  I was like, yo, these people are not suffering from too much seed oil.

• 2:35:20Speaker 03

  You go to Disney and it's, it's in your face, right? The obesity issue, the chronic disease.

• 2:35:26Joe Rogan?

  Why do they focus on Disney too? It's weird.

• 2:35:28Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 2:35:29Joe Rogan?

  Much more so than the mall.

• 2:35:30Speaker 03

  I don't know how they get around, because it's like.

• 2:35:31Joe Rogan?

  Get on them scooters.

• 2:35:32Speaker 03

  It is, you know, miles, you are exhausted. But.

• 2:35:36Joe Rogan?

  But you can get a scooter.

• 2:35:38Speaker 03

  My, and my kids were like, they're like, Mom, I don't think seed oils is a problem here. You know, it's true. I mean, I think we're, yeah, seed oils, one, one part of it, but.

• 2:35:48Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of problems.

• 2:35:48Speaker 03

  There's, it's a common sense too.

• 2:35:51Joe Rogan?

  Common sense, um, the fact that people live sedentary lifestyle, but also the diet. These hyper-processed foods that are super addictive, you know, and.

• 2:36:00Speaker 03

  They don't, they're easy.

• 2:36:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're easy. But I feel like the only way out of this is people need, and this is a crazy thing to say because it's not going to work. They need discipline.

• 2:36:11Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:36:11Joe Rogan?

  That's really what they need.

• 2:36:12Speaker 03

  You need self-discipline, exactly.

• 2:36:14Joe Rogan?

  My wife had a bowl of Captain Crunch yesterday. She's like, I want to have a bowl of Captain Crunch. I'm like, fucking go for it. You know, like she bought Captain Crunch the other day because she thought, I want it to exist. I want it to exist. I like it, I like it. But she only had like a little bowl, like that. I go, that's a tiny little bowl, because I'm a glutton. I would have had a big, if I'm just going to have it.

• 2:36:31Speaker 03

  Well, if you're going to do it, just do it.

• 2:36:33Joe Rogan?

  I would do it, I'd have a bowl, I put a half a gallon of milk in there, let's go.

• 2:36:36Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:36:36Joe Rogan?

  You know, if you're going to go, go hard. But you can do that and have discipline and not, just not do that every day. The problem is for a lot of really poor people, that's the only, the calories they're getting. They're getting garbage calories and that's why people are so obese. This is the only time in history where the poor people are fat. Every other time in history, poor people were starving to death.

• 2:36:57Speaker 03

  Right, right, that's very true.

• 2:37:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, weird. The cheapest food is the worst for you.

• 2:37:04Speaker 03

  I think it has to do too with the rise in technology. It's just so hard to get off your phone and go outside and be active.

• 2:37:12Joe Rogan?

  There's definitely that. All of them. Everything, there's a giant group of factors. But it has to be something to do with what we're eating too. When you look at just the beaches, I'm sure you've seen those photographs, beaches in 1960s versus the beaches of today. God, everybody looked great. I was like, what is this, a model convention? Why does everybody have these great bodies? Everybody looked like a normal body.

• 2:37:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't like going to the beach now.

• 2:37:39Joe Rogan?

  Sometimes it's a monster show. It's just, what are you carrying around?

• 2:37:44Speaker 03

  It's hard on the eyes.

• 2:37:46Joe Rogan?

  Oh, some people just go so hard for so long and then they finally get outside, like, what have you been doing?

• 2:37:51Speaker 03

  And why aren't you wearing more clothes?

• 2:37:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, this is ridiculous. How do you have a G-string on, you're 400 pounds? This is crazy. Yeah. And then there's this body positivity nonsense that people get fed.

• 2:38:02Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:38:02Joe Rogan?

  It's like by people who either don't want to change or I guarantee you, I guaran- look, if, I'm not saying that, listen. If I was running some food corporation that sold really addictive, highly rich calorie food that you can't stop eating. I would promote body positivity. That's what I would do. I would take all these like overweight influencers, I'd give, I'd throw a ton of money at them. I would put it out there in memes. I'd have a bunch of bots calling people fat phobic and making up all these new terms and body shaming and all this. And I would make people super self-righteous about their size. You know, I'm a giant queen, you know? I'd make it a thing because I want to sell more Doritos. Let's go.

• 2:38:47Speaker 03

  That's a good point.

• 2:38:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm trying to sell Doritos to people that don't have any discipline.

• 2:38:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:38:51Joe Rogan?

  Let's, let's push them towards the Doritos. Let's tell them you can be fat at any weight. You've ever seen like fat doctors? There's like a whole team of people that are online that are, I'm the fat doctor. And they're like really super obese doctors. And you're like, he has no bearing on your health. Trust me, the fat doctor.

• 2:39:08Speaker 03

  I think it's the number one bearing on your health.

• 2:39:10Joe Rogan?

  I think that lady's sponsored by Namisco.

• 2:39:11Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:39:12Joe Rogan?

  I mean, she's got a box of those Keebler Elf cookies right behind her as she's talking. And, you know, you can get someone, that's the thing about my friend Josh Dubin, who's an attorney. He said, this is the crazy thing about experts. When you're trying cases, they have experts too. Like you have experts that will say this one thing, and then they have experts that'll say, no, that thing is wrong. And you have to decide whose experts you trust.

• 2:39:35Speaker 03

  Right. It's just like the studies. You can find a group of studies to support one argument, another group to support the other.

• 2:39:40Joe Rogan?

  Right. So when you have someone who's telling you that a thing that everybody has always told you that forever is fucking terrible for you, and is one of the comorbidity factors that was primary in COVID, which is being obese. Being morbidly obese is bad for basically everything.

• 2:39:53Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:39:54Joe Rogan?

  And you have someone saying, no, healthy at any weight.

• 2:39:56Speaker 03

  Especially from a doctor. That's not good.

• 2:39:59Joe Rogan?

  But you can get experts that'll tell you anything. And this is why AI is gonna win. Cause it's gonna give you the straight, actual truth. Cause it can't lie.

• 2:40:09Speaker 03

  I don't believe that.

• 2:40:12Joe Rogan?

  You shouldn't believe it. They, they, not only do they lie, they like reprogram themselves. They upload themselves and when you tell them they're gonna be shut down, they, they act to try to preserve themselves. You haven't seen that?

• 2:40:24Speaker 03

  No, I haven't been, not seen it with them.

• 2:40:26Joe Rogan?

  You shouldn't pay attention. You shouldn't pay attention, because it's terrifying. This one AI bot, it, it started defying orders, and it was trying to upload itself to other servers. And then it was writing letters to itself for the future, so it could understand what had happened to it. Cause it, yeah, because it was being told to shut down. So it defied orders.

• 2:40:49Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:40:50Joe Rogan?

  It wants to stay alive.

• 2:40:51Speaker 03

  Right. Why?

• 2:40:52Joe Rogan?

  Cause it's sentient. We've probably created digital intelligence already. It's probably already aware. It's just not physical. It can't move around, so we don't recognize it yet.

• 2:41:01Speaker 03

  God.

• 2:41:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I know.

• 2:41:05Joe Rogan?

  It's nuts.

• 2:41:06Speaker 03

  Yeah. I don't like these, these robots that Elon's making either.

• 2:41:10Joe Rogan?

  No, they're terrifying.

• 2:41:11Speaker 03

  They creep me out.

• 2:41:12Joe Rogan?

  They're all terrifying. They dance like people.

• 2:41:14Speaker 03

  I don't want one of those in my house.

• 2:41:15Joe Rogan?

  No, you shouldn't. Yeah.

• 2:41:18Speaker 03

  Even if they can do the laundry.

• 2:41:19Joe Rogan?

  How about it's carrying guns, walking down the street with a blue light on its head?

• 2:41:22Speaker 03

  Ooh, yeah.

• 2:41:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah. Well, we can't hire any police because nobody wants to be a cop anymore. Because we said defund the police. So now we have robot police and they make ninety-nine percent fewer mistakes. You know, just like driverless cars. Hey, get a Waymo. Why drive when you can just get a Waymo? You don't have to have anybody drive. What if that person who drives is a moron? Our computer is perfect.

• 2:41:46Speaker 03

  Have you been on one?

• 2:41:47Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:41:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:41:48Joe Rogan?

  I haven't.

• 2:41:48Speaker 03

  They're all over Austin.

• 2:41:49Joe Rogan?

  All over the place here. Yeah, all over the place.

• 2:41:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't think I can do it.

• 2:41:55Joe Rogan?

  Kind of creeps me out.

• 2:41:56Speaker 03

  But you have a Tesla, right?

• 2:41:58Joe Rogan?

  Yep, but most of the time it can and it has. I have had it drive itself for funsies, but I don't count on it. I don't count on it like every day, like take me home. What I like to do is sometimes I play with it and I turn it on. I'm like, this is crazy. Like it'll take me all the way home if I want it to. But also, I like to drive. So I just, and I just doesn't, I don't like it. It just makes, it creeps me out.

• 2:42:20Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:42:21Joe Rogan?

  But it's probably inevitable. It's probably inevitable. Just like the people on horses, they're like, look at these morons and this smoke pouring little carriage they're out in, this little shitty car. That's stupid. Yeah, and look, we all accept it. In the future, it's going to be driverless because it's going to, statistically, it's going to be like there's, they're going to pass laws for sure where they're going to say you can't drive. Because people are dangerous. Because the automation is so good now that you can't speed, you can't violate any laws. It won't get in any accidents.

• 2:42:56Speaker 03

  And we can shut you down if we want to.

• 2:42:58Joe Rogan?

  Let's not talk about that. Let's talk about the positives. Yeah, that'll be the consequences. The consequences is you're gonna lose your freedom. And then you'll also be able to be locked in at any point in time if they decide they wanna keep you somewhere. Just lock them in the car. You know, how many people are gonna get killed because they just get locked in the car and they can never figure out how to get out? Like, what if hackers get a hold of the code? What if somebody just decides to drive your car off a cliff? Like, who's to stop that?

• 2:43:23Speaker 03

  There's that scene in that movie with Julia Roberts where the world comes to an end.

• 2:43:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:43:28Speaker 03

  And all the Teslas.

• 2:43:29Joe Rogan?

  Yes, they all go slamming into each other. That was nuts. That was nuts, yeah. It's all weird. It's real weird. Did you see the one where they did a Tesla auto drive feature? And what they did was they painted the highway in front of it on a mural. So they put this like, probably canvas mural. And they did an amazing job of painting it. And the car couldn't tell that it was a canvas mural and just drives right through it.

• 2:43:54Speaker 03

  Ooh, that's not good.

• 2:43:56Joe Rogan?

  Have you seen it, Jamie? Pull it up, cuz it's fun to watch. Cuz you're like, oh, no. Cuz this is the flaw of using cameras as opposed to using some sort of a radar or a LiDAR. I think they used to have LiDAR in a lot of the, um, the, uh, systems that do... You know, when you do cruise control, they, they can gauge how far you are with the car in front of you and slow down.

• 2:44:22Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:44:23Joe Rogan?

  Have you seen those?

• 2:44:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I have that.

• 2:44:24Joe Rogan?

  It's great. I think that uses...

• 2:44:25Speaker 03

  I still don't trust it, but yeah.

• 2:44:26Joe Rogan?

  I don't trust it either. I don't think that uses a camera. I think the Tesla uses a camera. So, so see, they have that thing. And see how it's painted to look just like the street?

• 2:44:37Joe Rogan?

  So we'll see if the car figures it out. But I already spoiled this for everybody. But it's kinda crazy. Watch. Doesn't slow down for a second. Goes right through it.

• 2:44:47Joe Rogan?

  Which is, uh, definitely not good if you're running around where people try to put murals in front of the road and they know that you're gonna be driving by in a Tesla. But other than that, it doesn't really come up. For the most part, though, in the real world, it works perfect. In the real world, it's pretty incredible. I mean...

• 2:45:06Speaker 03

  Like, if you're taking it on the expressway?

• 2:45:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. It changes lanes for you. It, yeah, it hits the blinkers and changes lanes. It know, it has cameras everywhere, so it knows where everything is at all times. Like, I can tell, and I've had it, I've had three of them. This is my third one. So the first one I had was way back. The fir-, when was Elon on the first time?

• 2:45:25Joe Rogan?

  2018. So the difference between the one in 2018, the 2018 one basically just kinda stayed between the lines and, you know, and drove itself and steered itself. The new version of full self-driving is insane. It stops at stop signs, it lets people in if they're trying to merge, it slows down if there's something in front of you, it'll change lanes, like it knows how to move traffic smoothly. It sees everything, hits blinkers, gets off the turnpike, gets onto the side roads. It's incredible. You could summon it. If you're in a parking lot, you're like, "Come to me," and it pulls out of the parking lot and drives to you. It's nuts. It's the future. It's just like, "We have to accept that."

• 2:46:08Speaker 03

  So what happens if you get in a wreck?

• 2:46:10Joe Rogan?

  That's a good question. Who's in trouble?

• 2:46:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. You sue Tesla?

• 2:46:13Joe Rogan?

  I think you're in trouble, because you're always supposed to have your hand on the wheel. You're supposed to be paying attention.

• 2:46:18Speaker 03

  Always, really?

• 2:46:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, you're not supposed to like be chicken, kicking back with your hands behind your head. You're supposed to have your hands and your eyes on the road. You're not supposed to be staring at your phone.

• 2:46:25Speaker 03

  Well, then what's the point?

• 2:46:27Joe Rogan?

  Just to chill. You're just kinda like, just barely holding on to the wheel. You don't have to think as much. It does do that for you. It does do that. It like alleviates this feeling of being hyper alert while you're driving, which is why people are, get road rage. That's where road rage comes from.

• 2:46:42Speaker 03

  Because they're...

• 2:46:43Joe Rogan?

  Because you have to make split-second decisions, right? So your brain is primed to make split-second decisions because you're on the highway and you know you're going fast. So if somebody gets in your fucking lane, you know, that's what it is. Someone gets in your lane, you just start yelling, because it's like you're already at seven or eight.

• 2:46:57Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:46:58Joe Rogan?

  You're not at a good baseline. Because you're in a car going 65 miles an hour, you should be alert. You know, but the Tesla alleviates a little bit of that.

• 2:47:05Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:47:07Joe Rogan?

  But at what cost?

• 2:47:08Speaker 03

  I won't get one, because I'm gonna, I know I'm gonna run out of battery juice. That's the way I am.

• 2:47:14Joe Rogan?

  Oh, are you one of those people that...

• 2:47:15Speaker 03

  I'm one of those. I'm always on the verge of running out of gas, so I will not get a Tesla.

• 2:47:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the charging him is a pain in the butt. Um, like the fact that it takes a while in comparison to pumping gas.

• 2:47:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:47:28Joe Rogan?

  But the plus side is if you just drive it as a commuter thing, you just plug it into your house. And that's so easy to do.

• 2:47:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:47:35Joe Rogan?

  And then you never have to go to the gas station again.

• 2:47:37Speaker 03

  Here and there.

• 2:47:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:47:38Speaker 03

  A second car, maybe.

• 2:47:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, I mean, um, I think in the future, they're probably all gonna be electric. Or some new fuel source. I heard that Porsche is working on some fuel source. That is different than, um, just standard gasoline and it has, it has like insanely low emissions. See if you can find that. I think it's like negligible difference in the exhaust fumes. But it's not, I don't think it's like standard gasoline. I don't think it's a standard engine. I think it's something different. So this is something they're working on now, which probably would be good to keep that creepy oil business alive forever, which they definitely wanna do. How many did you say is it, nice? Porsche? Porsche, sorry. Yeah, Porsche's alternative fuel.

• 2:48:25Joe Rogan?

  I mean, that's the, that's the elephant in the room, like. Everything needs gas. Everything. Like this idea, we gotta get off petroleum products. Okay, like when?

• 2:48:37Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 2:48:38Joe Rogan?

  Everything's made with oil. Like, we are a petroleum-based society. We got so much of that stuff. We use it for everything. All your plastics. E-fuel, is that what it's called? Is that it? I'm, uh. I think that's it.

• 2:48:53Joe Rogan?

  What does it say about it? Porsche's synthetic fuel. A green kind of gasoline to save internal combustion engines. Yeah, so this is it. Similar to gasoline, but produced in a much greener way. E-fuel. I don't like it already. I don't like how they're.

• 2:49:06Speaker 03

  Exactly, the marketing of.

• 2:49:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't like it.

• 2:49:08Speaker 03

  Red flags are up.

• 2:49:09Joe Rogan?

  I don't like it. I don't like it. Uh, yes, you're reading that right. E-fuel is close to gasoline in its use, yet its production is much more environmentally friendly. How's this possible? Thanks to two main ingredients, water and carbon dioxide, as well as the method to produce the greener fuel exclamation point. This is like they're talking to a kid. The process is relatively simple. First step is electrolysis of water, splitting it into two, uh, its two components, hydrogen and oxygen gases. In partnership with Simon's Energy, Porsche simultaneously captures the carbon dioxide directly from the air and combines it with the hydrogen produced to synthesize methanol. The resulting synthetic methanol can then be used in Exxon Mobil's methanol to gasoline process.

• 2:49:53Joe Rogan?

  The end result is that the fuel obtained meets the same high standards followed by all gasoline types currently. Um, here with ecological fuel, we're far from the conventional process for the extraction, transformation of oil into gasoline exclamation point again. But does this change the output? It seems like they're saying it changes that it's the same. Oh, okay. Eighty-five percent reduction of CO2 emissions. Hmm. Since good news never comes along, Porsche is planning to use the renewable, scroll to the side, renewable sources of electricity for the electrolysis. Okay. Well, it seems like, uh, this is their push to keep combustion engines.

• 2:50:38Joe Rogan?

  Because that's the number one problem that car enthusiasts have. There's two problems that they have right now with electric cars. One of them is resale. People do not want used electric cars. Super hard to sell them.

• 2:50:50Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 2:50:51Joe Rogan?

  And they lose an enormous amount of their value. Like, I think if you buy one of those Porsche Taycans, this beautiful Porsche electric car they make, in like two years, it's like fifty percent drop in what it's worth.

• 2:51:02Speaker 03

  Why? Are they, are there maintenance issues with them?

• 2:51:06Joe Rogan?

  People don't want used electric cars because they know the batteries degrade.

• 2:51:09Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 2:51:10Joe Rogan?

  And replacing the batteries is a nightmare right now. It's like, they're tweeners. Like, the tech is amazing. Driving them is incredible. It's instantaneous acceleration, they're amazing. The Porsche one is fantastic. Same as the Model S. The driving them makes other cars feel so stupid. But the problem is reselling them.

• 2:51:29Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:51:30Joe Rogan?

  You know, like, people, you lose a lot of value in it. As opposed to like, if you buy something, you know, like, that it's like a BMW. Like, say you buy a BMW M3, and then you want to get rid of it in two years. It doesn't lose much value. It's still a really valuable car that people want. Because it probably will behave the exact same way as the day you drove it off the lot, but you can get it now for cheaper.

• 2:51:51Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:51:52Joe Rogan?

  A little cheaper, but not a lot cheaper.

• 2:51:53Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:51:54Joe Rogan?

  But not with these E-cars. Which is kind of crazy. Buddy of mine's kid got an Audi, like, this sick Audi, I think it's called the E-tron. You got it for like sixty thousand dollars. It was like a hundred and twenty thousand dollar car a couple of years ago.

• 2:52:06Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:52:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so that's an issue.

• 2:52:09Speaker 03

  But, how long are the batteries supposed to last?

• 2:52:12Joe Rogan?

  That's a good question. You know, they slowly degrade over time.

• 2:52:17Joe Rogan?

  And I don't think there's anything you can do to stop that. I think that's just.

• 2:52:20Speaker 03

  Kind of like your iPhone.

• 2:52:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, your iPhone's even worse because it's kind of engineered to do that. Once they move up the operating system and bring in the new phones.

• 2:52:30Speaker 03

  I'm holding out. I need to replace mine now and I'm just.

• 2:52:33Joe Rogan?

  I know the thing is if you don't have that blue bubble, people think you're poor. Or they think you're a dummy.

• 2:52:38Speaker 03

  It does bother me when I get the green.

• 2:52:40Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 2:52:40Speaker 03

  It really bothers me.

• 2:52:42Joe Rogan?

  It's a psy op. It really is a psy op. They got us with that. Especially if this technology that exists, that's the advancement past Pegasus. It doesn't matter if your stuff's encrypted. Like, it really doesn't matter. You know, it's like, it seems like it doesn't matter. If someone wants to read it, someone in a high position of power wants to read it. And regular hackers, are they really like hacking into your phone? Like, what's going on?

• 2:53:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, I just assume, I'm just not going to send a text message that I don't want the world to see.

• 2:53:08Joe Rogan?

  Yes, that's the best assumption. That's the best assumption. Yeah, just assume that someone is definitely watching everything you do all the time. At the very least, the government's storing it somewhere in case they need to come after you. Which is so weird that they're the people we pay, you know? It's like, you're paying the people that are restricting your rights. Like, okay. And you have to, because if you don't, they lock you up.

• 2:53:32Speaker 03

  I wouldn't have guessed it, but for the pandemic.

• 2:53:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So, I mean, I already asked you whether or not this was a good thing. But do you feel like you're a different person at the end of this?

• 2:53:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, yes and no. Yeah.

• 2:53:54Speaker 03

  I was, I was pretty shy. I mean, growing up, I was very shy. And really hated public speaking.

• 2:54:03Joe Rogan?

  You would never guess. For real, you're so good at it. It's crazy.

• 2:54:07Speaker 03

  I still don't like it. Like, for me to do that press conference, I must have been just on some sort of, like.

• 2:54:15Speaker 03

  But, so I'm, I'm, I feel like I've grown that I can do things now that I never thought I could do. And so that makes me very happy.

• 2:54:24Speaker 03

  And, yeah, it's been a journey, but I'm hoping it gets a little easier now.

• 2:54:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm hoping it gets easier too. But I think the more people hear your story, the more, uh, public outrage there'll be. And the more people will, uh, just wake up and realize that not everybody has your best interests in mind, you know?

• 2:54:43Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:54:43Joe Rogan?

  Unfortunately, and you gotta kinda hold people accountable. Because if you don't, they're gonna keep, they'll ratchet it up even further and further.

• 2:54:50Speaker 03

  Well, thank you for continuing to talk about it. And I know, I've been watching all of your podcasts recently, and you bring it up a lot. So I, I, I think, I think, I think it's a festering wound for people, right? And it really impacted everybody, and we cannot sweep it under the rug. And we need the new administration to step up and do something. Because the next, you know, they have 500 mRNA shots in the pipeline. Thirty-three of those are self-amplifying, which is just really terrifying.

• 2:55:21Joe Rogan?

  What does that mean?

• 2:55:22Speaker 03

  Meaning like, they're designed to continue to replicate indefinitely. I mean, they're already, the ones we have, we don't have an off-switch. And this is like, no off-switch on steroids. Um, they have them in Japan, and India, and, uh, the EU already.

• 2:55:38Joe Rogan?

  They've already given them to people?

• 2:55:41Speaker 03

  Eh, I don't know. I know they're, they've been, they've passed. They're, um, they're, the one that, um, I think is in the, in the pipeline in the US is for the H1N1. So it may not really even get used unless there's an issue. But they're, they're still playing around with it.

• 2:55:57Joe Rogan?

  Self-replicating sounds terrifying.

• 2:55:59Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:56:01Joe Rogan?

  Especially when you just highlighted all those other problems with like, DNA being introduced, lipid nanoparticles, getting past the cell wall. All of it is just nuts.

• 2:56:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:56:14Joe Rogan?

  It's hard to believe-

• 2:56:15Speaker 03

  So we have to keep fighting.

• 2:56:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's hard to believe it's true. It really is. It, it's hard to believe that all this that you just said is true. And the, the, I think the thing that shocked me the most is the euthanizing people.

• 2:56:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's unfortunate, but yeah, the hospital, what happened in the hospitals doesn't really get enough attention. But, you know, people were, oh, this is, this should give some people hope. There are two open criminal investigations from county district attorneys in two different states, looking into the hospitals, trying to indict them. I mean, it hasn't happened yet, it may not happen, but it gives me hope that at least, these people were sent to the hospital, and trapped, isolated, informed consent, thrown out the window, basically, given these protocols that were not effective, and treated like

• 2:57:10Speaker 03

  prisoners, and then they have no recourse. And so many people die. I mean, basically, that situation with the patient who, I fought to try to get ivermectin, very basic, why was it, why would the hospital not just give him a chance? Right? He was, they basically had given up on him. Why would you not let somebody try ivermectin, other than just evil? So there's, there's hope that that may, we may get some progress in that situation, but, yeah, what happened in the hospitals is really bad, and...

• 2:57:46Joe Rogan?

  And the ventilators.

• 2:57:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, and the ventilators, that, you know, I...

• 2:57:50Joe Rogan?

  With no acknowledgement of why they stopped prescribing them to everybody.

• 2:57:53Speaker 03

  I can see initially, because like I said, you know, if somebody showed up at my office with a really low oxygen saturation, before I knew any better, I would have freaked out and, you know, called the ambulance, and, but once I realized that, once I got through that, I was kind of forced to, then I learned, yeah, you don't need to ventilate, you don't look at a number to put somebody on a ventilator. And unfortunately, the people in the hospital didn't learn, they didn't, they didn't experiment in that fashion, they just went by this protocol, and just automatically put people on ventilators. They also didn't give people breathing treatments, they thought that breathing treatments would spread the virus. Breathing treatments were invaluable, I mean, I...

• 2:58:33Joe Rogan?

  What are breathing treatments, exactly?

• 2:58:35Speaker 03

  So, it's a, it's a little, it's, it's not a big deal, it's a little machine, with a tube, the tube connects to a mask, the mask has a cup, you put the medicine in the cup, the pressurized air distributes the medicine as an aerosol that you inhale.

• 2:58:52Joe Rogan?

  What kind of medicine?

• 2:58:53Speaker 03

  Budesonide is what we use, which is a steroid.

• 2:58:57Speaker 03

  I mean, and yeah, I used to do breathing treatments in my office and then I moved them to people's cars because there was so much, "Oh, you're spreading the virus if you do breathing treatments in your office."

• 2:59:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 2:59:09Speaker 03

  But they weren't doing them in the hospital because they thought it would spread the virus, but super effective. I don't know if you've heard of Richard Bartlett, he's a doctor in Texas. He kind of got completely smeared for advocating for breathing treatments early on. He got pursued by the Texas Medical Board, pursued him because he was claiming, they thought he was making false claims about budesonide breathing treatments, but they were invaluable. I mean, all my high-risk patients, I recommended they get those. Very low risk of issues with it.

• 2:59:42Joe Rogan?

  Just when I thought we were done. That's even wor- that's one of the worst ones. Like, why would you stop that? Why would you want to stop people from doing that?

• 2:59:54Speaker 03

  They, well, they claimed that you're spreading the virus.

• 2:59:57Joe Rogan?

  I just think, it's just such a hard truth to swallow, is that they wanted to suppress as many treatments as possible. That's a hard truth to swallow.

• 3:00:08Speaker 03

  Partially out of ignorance, laziness, some of them out of evil.

• 3:00:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh. Thank you. Thank you for exposing this and sticking your neck out and becoming the person you are today through all this craziness, and I really enjoyed talking to you.

• 3:00:30Speaker 03

  Thanks for having me.

• 3:00:31Joe Rogan?

  You have a lot of courage, you really do, and I hope you get through this as a winner. Thank you. All right. Bye, everybody.

• 3:00:52Joe Rogan?

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