What’s Actually Holding Back Your Growth? | Ep 853

In this Q&A episode of The Game, Alex (@AlexHormozi) answers real questions from real business owners, offering blunt, tactical advice on pricing, positioning, retention, hiring, scaling, and staying focused on what actually drives growth. Welcome to The Game w/Alex Hormozi, hosted by entrepreneur, founder, investor, author, public speaker, and content creator Alex Hormozi. On this podcast you’ll hear how to get more customers, make more profit per customer, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons Alex has learned and will learn on his path from $100M to $1B in net worth. Wanna scale your business? Click here. Follow Alex Hormozi’s Socials: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Acquisition Mentioned in this episode: Get access to the free $100M Scaling Roadmap at www.acquisition.com/roadmap

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Alex Hormozi?

  There will literally always be money on the table. Like you, you can't sell everything as much as you want to. You just, you just can't. And the thing is, is like, if this company can go from six to 15, and the next year goes from 15 to 30, and the next year goes from 30 to 60. If you hit the same numbers and have two different product lines versus one, which would you rather have? And I'll also tell you that if you just do it with one, you'll increase the likelihood, not decrease the likelihood that that occurs.

• 0:27Speaker 01

  Hey Alex, my name is Henry. I sell education. I teach people how to fix and flip, mainly the Hispanic market. So it's only in Spanish. We did 1.3 mil last year, second year in business, and we want to do 3 million this year. So with the more, better, new, right? Right now, we only do two events a year, big events, 600 people. And we upsell to a high ticket, 12,000, right? And we convert 20% of the room more or less. So the 80% that went to that room, never sees me again. I never sell them anything again. And well, that 20%, they bought my high ticket. That mentorship is a year. And after that, I don't sell them anything ever again.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  So more or better? Do I just do more of these events and like never ending looking for new customers for the rest of my life? Or should I focus?

• 1:21Alex Hormozi?

  You're good. You're in education.

• 1:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23Alex Hormozi?

  And education graduates people.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26Alex Hormozi?

  It's how education works. So if you look at the education system overall, the way to create continuity in education is just always have something else to learn or to teach. I like first year, now you're an undergrad. Now you're a graduate student. Now you have a masters. Then there's a PhD and you get a second PhD. Really, you just, you just keep, you know, people just become endless students. And so, do you want to sell the business eventually? Or do you just want to make money?

• 1:45Speaker 01

  Uh, make money. I mean, we're not.

• 1:46Alex Hormozi?

  No, it's fine. No, I prefer the truth. Yeah, I mean, the easiest thing to do is just double the amount of events you're doing. You either just do, you either go one a quarter, or you can do two at 1,200.

• 1:57Speaker 01

  And would you travel or just stay in where I'm at in Miami?

• 2:01Alex Hormozi?

  Is that where you run them now?

• 2:02Speaker 01

  In Miami?

• 2:03Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, I do East Coast, West Coast. Yeah.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe Texas or something.

• 2:06Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:08Alex Hormozi?

  I mean, you have a really simple solution. Like just run the same playbook more times. If I were, if you were like, I want to build a more valuable business, then I'd say take the year to figure out revenue retention, which is how do I get these people who pay me 12,000 dollars to pay me another 12,000 dollars or pay me 30,000 dollars next year? Or even down sell them to something that's $5,000 a year, but they stay.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Right. And focus on retaining that top tier that paid me that high ticket.

• 2:31Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, but I think considering for the model that you have down selling the upsell, I actually like a lot. So if they paid you 12, maybe they'll stay for three year, three to five, just to have access to the network and some of your vendors and the stuff that you kind of like provide. And I think that's something that people would be far more likely to stick with. And so then you can basically think about your business as from a zooming all the way out perspective is that the $12,000 is actually like offset CAC, uh, which is like you could break even on the $12,000 if you know that someone gets into a $3,000 a year membership. That's pretty much all margin that doesn't leave. So it's like that allows you to spend way more than your competition because they need to make money on the 12. You can break even on the 12 and then you just have this stack of $3,000 bills that just keep stacking up. That's like low, low effort to maintain.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 3:18Alex Hormozi?

  Makes sense?

• 3:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's good.

• 3:19Alex Hormozi?

  But yeah, the nice thing is that you're honest about just wanting to make more money. It makes this a lot easier.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:23Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  Uh, my name is Mike Nathan. Um, I sell cellular therapy in home to the old affluent injured, probably in athletic. Um, we're new, but we've got a million dollars of revenue, half of EBITDA. We would like to get to 25 million.

• 3:39Alex Hormozi?

  In home or?

• 3:40Speaker 01

  In home.

• 3:41Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, got it.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  Consider mobile healthcare.

• 3:43Alex Hormozi?

  Okay. Is it like guy drives out or is it you sending machines?

• 3:46Speaker 01

  RN drives out, gives you an IV infusion in your home.

• 3:50Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, got it.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  We'd like to get to 25 million. We're built to be bought. We want to exit, so we think we're on the cutting edges. What's stopping us is my team is awesome.

• 3:58Alex Hormozi?

  All right.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  Great. And from the NFL, it's a lot of good, but we have great business to doctor B to B sales experience. Zero B to C experience and that playbook we're learning is wildly different. We have no idea what we're doing.

• 4:14Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah. So what stops you from just doing way more of the doctor stuff?

• 4:17Speaker 01

  It doesn't, it doesn't quite pay as well, meaning, uh, we have people that knock on doors to, uh, orthopedic surgeons who are looking for patients with, uh, alternatives to the surgery. PT chiropractors. It's a lot of effort and there's some that are going to refer to you and some that just will not. Uh, so that's our constraint in a one market in the Twin Cities. It's a one market play. We know there are more people looking for the solution. So we want to understand what the B to C is. If we go to then Dallas, Philly, LA, as we try to scale it. We're convinced it needs to be a better ROI than maybe what we're doing right now.

• 4:54Alex Hormozi?

  What do you do? So you're big in 50% margins, right? So what's the cost to acquire a physician?

• 4:59Speaker 01

  Cost to acquire a physician?

• 5:01Alex Hormozi?

  Mm hmm. Who refers your business? Cost of acquiring affiliate.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  Uh, it's oftentimes just, it can be a physician. So we don't track it that way, but it's um, $500.

• 5:10Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, so it costs you 500. And then what does the average physician refer to you in a year?

• 5:15Speaker 01

  Uh.

• 5:16Alex Hormozi?

  In terms of business.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  Six thousand.

• 5:17Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 5:18Speaker 01

  Thousand dollars.

• 5:18Alex Hormozi?

  So you're getting 12 to one there and you already know how that works. So like, what stops you from doing 10 times more of that? You're saying they don't pay well, but that's the part I'm not sure. I don't understand because you're getting 50% more.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  One through the woods and hit all the people that are going to refer us. The number's not amazing, or at least I just know there's more there. I assume there's more, there's gotta be more than, uh, you know, the 200 people we've hit in a.

• 5:39Alex Hormozi?

  Like you've, I mean, you've only really talked to 200 in terms of like reach outs and, and, or yeah, 200 who signed up as affiliates kind of thing.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  I don't know the number off the top of my head, but it's in, it's in the hundreds, less than a thousand of B to B, uh, PT chiropractors, orthopedic surgeons. We've done that.

• 5:56Alex Hormozi?

  In the Twin Cities.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  And the super small people that have given us has been some give four, five and six, some give zero.

• 6:03Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah. Do you have an active affiliate manager who's like regularly reminding them? Yeah, so with, so the, the way that I think about affiliates is, um, it's basically a second tier of customer. And so you need to have somebody who's regularly kind of like stoking the affiliate fire to keep them activated and continue to get them to continue to refer business. So I'll give you an example. So there was a roofing company, for example, it was a restoration company. They had one star, star salesman and all he did was he'd go around to other tradesmen and get them to refer them business. And so they would get a thousand bucks to refer the restoration business, business. But the sales guy got 500 for every time they referred. And so that guy all day long was knocking on doors, walking in the front.

• 6:44Alex Hormozi?

  With donuts, ask them how they're doing, bringing coffee to the guys and then reminding them that they existed. And that's all he did. And so I think you were getting, you're getting, you're, you're doing the hardest part, which is getting them to refer. You just didn't have the, the consistent referrals. Because if you had 200 active affiliates who were consistently referring you business and most of these physicians, you know, especially like GP, things like that, like, I mean, they see thousands of patients. And many of them could probably benefit from the services you have. And so the activation is both getting them to refer consistently, but also percentage of customers that they see that they refer to you. So it's kind of both sides of it. And so I think that the missing link with what you were already doing was just that the,

• 7:25Alex Hormozi?

  you didn't have basically the continuous affiliate marketing strategy to get them to keep sending you business. So that's probably like, right now, today, I would fix that first because you already have the acquisition system. You already have the network. And so for me, like reactivating that affiliate base would be the first thing that I did. The second thing, maybe, because you might just reactivate the base and all of a sudden you're like, I got 200 guys referring me business. Holy shit, we're at 10 million. The second thing I would consider probably, I would, I would still probably focus most of my time on the B to B. Cause you already have it, but for this business, I think that it lends itself for, what's the price point?

• 7:55Speaker 01

  $6,000 a treatment.

• 7:57Alex Hormozi?

  Per treatment. Okay. Wait, so, so the average doctor will send you one $6,000 patient per year. When you said it costs you 500, they'll send you one patient. Interesting. So do you have a process for once the patient gets the thing calling the physician up?

• 8:10Speaker 01

  Sorry, say that.

• 8:11Alex Hormozi?

  So like, I'm Dr. Smith. I send you Sandy. Sandy goes and gets the, or you come to Sandy and Sandy gets the treatment. Is there a cycle where you call back, need Dr. Smith and say, hey, we just dealt with Sandy. Here's some of her stuff.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  Uh, not in a medical term, like we're not putting notes back in because it is private.

• 8:27Alex Hormozi?

  For sure. Yeah.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  But, but we do, we ask for more referrals. It just circle back that way. There's not a, a, a patient loop back.

• 8:35Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  That's not true. Sometimes that does happen. Excuse me. It does.

• 8:38Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  That's not systematized though.

• 8:40Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, I would systematize the hell out of that. Cause it's like, hey, you just sent me this person. Like, let me close that loop for you. She's awesome. We did this thing. She loved it. By the way, and then we have the, you know, the opening to the, to the others, like what customers, or customers, sorry, what patients did you see this week? Uh, who you think it would be a good fit? Right? And rather than saying, do you have any? It's which ones would be?

• 9:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:00Alex Hormozi?

  Is the question. Small training stuff, but it matters. So I feel like there's so much on the B to B side that honestly, that's probably where I'd be.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  So you would not go after a B to C approach, like advertising online, going pushing it on a strategy on that?

• 9:11Alex Hormozi?

  It's not that I wouldn't. It's that when I think about, so this is the difference in like theoretical and actual like I would, given, given the fact that you like, you're already running good margins on this thing. Basically doing it and take this the way I mean it, completely unoptimized like right now. Right? And I, again, I'm not, this is not a slight. Then I'm like, there's so much juice left in this thing. I don't want to now start something new. It's like, I barely got this one going. I want to like crush this. And when I've, when I'm like, no, we've like, we follow up with every single person. I've got a full time affiliate manager who steps by our affiliates. I'm, I'm calling affiliates, but doctors, you know, drops by the docks once a week just to remind us, say nice things. Hey, by the way, like that is happening all the time. And we've already covered like literally every single physician in the twin cities.

• 9:54Alex Hormozi?

  Then I'm like, okay, let's go B to C. But if we haven't completely squeezed the hell out of this thing and it's already working at the level it is right now with like, zero, like you're only getting one patient per doc. It's like, so, so yeah, so you getting B to B customer is the same as getting one B to C customer. I understand why you'd be frustrated because you'd be like, well, fuck it. I'll just fuck, I could sell one customer on my own without having to deal with the doc. But the whole point is that like, I want them to be sending 20, 50 a month. And they can, because they have the volume. And I think that first one has to be like a beautifully choreographed experience. Because that first patient's the test run for them, for you, right? They'll refer you one and they'll see what happens. Right? And so one, it's like Sandy's got to be blown away, right? She's got to come back and be like, oh my God, that place was amazing.

• 10:38Alex Hormozi?

  And then you also have to go back to the doc and be like, we blew Sandy away, by the way. Um, and so I think you have to tackle it from both sides.

• 10:46Alex Hormozi?

  Real quick, guys, I have a special, special gift for you for being loyal listeners of the podcast. Leila and I spent probably an entire quarter putting together our scaling roadmap. It's breaking scaling into 10 stages and across all eight functions of the business. So you've got marketing, you've got sales, you've got product, you've got customer success, you've got. You've got recruiting, HR, you've got finance. We show the problems that emerge at every level of scale and how to graduate to the next level. It's all free and you can get it personalized to you. So it's about 30 ish pages for each of the stages. Once you get to the questions, it will tell you exactly where you're at and what you need to do to grow. It's about 14 hours of stuff, but it's narrowed down so that you only have to watch the part that's relevant to you, which will probably be about 90 minutes.

• 11:32Alex Hormozi?

  And so if that's at all interesting, you can go to acquisition.com forward slash roadmap. R O A D map roadmap.

• 11:41Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, that's what I would do. Getting into the ad side, you absolutely could do it and we could walk through some, you know, whole strategy there. But I, I, if, if we swap places, that's where I would be focused.

• 11:51Speaker 01

  If you were going to try to expand into other major metros in the next 18 months, who would you, would you have the B to C sorted out before you went to the next market? Or would you?

• 12:01Alex Hormozi?

  Honestly, no. If I crush my B to B play, then I just roam my B to B playbook and B to B playbook in the new market. Like, once I find something that works, I just want to just.

• 12:10Speaker 01

  Do more.

• 12:10Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, pillage.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  Right on. Thank you.

• 12:12Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, no, you bet.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  Hi, my name is Julie Deepdeller and we sell travel coaching to people who want to travel more frequently or more religiously for free or almost free. You already know all our business stuff. So my question is, kind of piggybacking on what you were talking about earlier with your six pages of ideas. We're in a room full of people that are always trying to optimize as well as always has new ideas. We had an idea for a B to B offer for adding a 50K concierge offer for businesses that are already spending half a million or more on travel annually. So when is it appropriate to add a new offer while you're already like still working and optimizing your?

• 12:54Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, I just wouldn't.

• 12:55Speaker 02

  Sorry?

• 12:56Alex Hormozi?

  I just wouldn't.

• 12:57Speaker 02

  You would.

• 12:58Alex Hormozi?

  I wouldn't do it.

• 12:59Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 13:00Alex Hormozi?

  You're going to go from six to 15 this year. Do that.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 13:05Alex Hormozi?

  Like, I'm not, I'm not trying to be like, uh, short to like, like, these are, these are the mistakes that we make.

• 13:14Alex Hormozi?

  There will literally always be money on the table. Like you, you can't sell everything as much as you want to. But like, you just, you just can't. And the thing is, is like, if, so said differently, if this company can go from six to fifteen and the next year goes from fifteen to thirty, and the next year goes from thirty to sixty, if you hit the same numbers and have two different product lines versus one, which would you rather have? One, right? And I'll also tell you that if you just do it with one, you'll increase the likelihood, not decrease the likelihood that that occurs.

• 13:45Alex Hormozi?

  And so like, that's all the, that's the focus and discipline stuff that you hear all the, the Steve Jobs and all that, like, it's just, it's, uh, he called it the, uh, the quantity of unbelievable ideas that you know you could crush that you say no to. That's what focus is.

• 13:58Speaker 02

  So how do you discern when to pursue something off of that six page list?

• 14:02Alex Hormozi?

  When we have bandwidth, which if you're continually, like, if you're basically doubling every year, your bandwidth is getting eaten up by doubling. So just double. Basically, it's like, why, why would we do it?

• 14:15Speaker 02

  Okay, thank you.

• 14:16Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, but if it's like, I want to grow, why would I, like, why, like, then let's just grow with the thing that already is working and is really profitable. And we know everything about it rather than this, you know, crazy girl in the red dress that like walking by and like has a crazy boyfriend, has crabs. You're like, what's going on, you know? So like, why bother? It's like, we have this girl, she loves us, she knows me, I know her, let's go.

• 14:39Speaker 03

  Hey Alex, uh, my name's Luke. Um, we run a firm similar to our quiet, actually in Sydney where we buy majority stakes for all the businesses. We currently operate three of them. We want to be operating or at least contributing to operations for about thirty. Um, we've had a lot of success exiting in the past, so we, we've kind of got to dial it in, but we can't do more than a couple at a time. Our constraint is. At the sort of venture studio level, uh, is the all is talent, really. We don't really know what our org should be and who should be doing it. So I don't know if there's anyone better place to help with that than you.

• 15:11Alex Hormozi?

  So you have a holding company.

• 15:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:13Alex Hormozi?

  Right now.

• 15:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:14Alex Hormozi?

  And what are the three businesses that you bought?

• 15:16Speaker 03

  Uh, one's a SaaS company at the moment, one's early education, and the other one is a gourmet food e-commerce business. The one before that was a, you know, music industry stuff. We're really diverse. Well, we, we just had a lot of exits, so these three are quite small. The e-commerce one's doing three and a half million at the moment.

• 15:34Alex Hormozi?

  And the other ones are smaller?

• 15:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, oh, yeah, they just started. Yeah. So did this one. This one's only a year old.

• 15:39Alex Hormozi?

  And so the founder, so, so are you, are you funding them and finding a founder, or are you buying businesses that are existing and exiting founders?

• 15:50Speaker 03

  In the current case of these current three, we've just bought them and now we're, we're the only operators of them. Uh, in the past, it's been slightly different.

• 15:57Alex Hormozi?

  So.

• 15:58Speaker 03

  Hundred case by case.

• 15:58Alex Hormozi?

  I, I, what do you want to do with your life? No, because what I'm about to say is, is going to be a dramatic change from what you're doing.

• 16:04Speaker 03

  I wanna have fuck it money.

• 16:06Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 16:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:07Alex Hormozi?

  So, so there's a, basically you have, how much do you know about private equity?

• 16:13Speaker 03

  I've read a couple of books.

• 16:14Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, so the, the problem, I can tell you what the problem with the existing model is.

• 16:19Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 16:20Alex Hormozi?

  Is that you don't have enough operating leverage. And so it's actually, in my opinion, a foundational issue with the business model. Like, I don't think it's going to work. Now, to be clear, I think you can make some money. I don't think it's going to accomplish the goal that you want. And so if you're trying to treat this like private equity, where you hope to have exits later and then gain liquidity, versus if you're like, I'm just a holding company and I just want to continue to buy cash flowing businesses, I'd have a different, a slightly different answer. But the businesses that you're buying are too small. And so if you're exiting founders, then the problem that you're having is like, oh my God, I have to build this entire business. Which is why most private equity institutions start at five million in EBITDA as their basically minimum that their check size that they're willing to write because of the problem that you are dealing with right now. And so I would encourage you to not try and reinvent the wheel.

• 17:04Alex Hormozi?

  And I say this coming from like with arrows in my back and lots of scars. In the first twenty four months of acquisition.com, I did twenty four deals. I had much, many, many smaller deals because I thought, okay, I'll just do, I'll use the brand that I have. I'll attract, you know, entrepreneurs that are kind of emerging and I'll have, take a minority stake and kind of help them grow, whatever. The issue with that is that a lot of businesses that are small are small for a reason. Because they don't have good entrepreneurs who are leading them. And now you're like, okay, well, either you've removed the mediocre entrepreneur and now you have just a bunch of basically nothing. That you're now like, oh, now I just bought myself a job. Right? And maybe you doubted for no money down because they were willing to leave and you didn't have a lot of capital that you had to put to work.

• 17:47Alex Hormozi?

  Fine, but I would, in my opinion, you have basically two paths that you can pursue here from where you're currently at. I don't think buying more companies is the answer. Unless you raise a lot of money so that you can buy actual companies and not like someone's big bucket of risk. Right? Which is what we, if we, if you took the companies that you bought through the, the scorecard, I'll bet you that they probably fail a lot of those checkpoints.

• 18:09Speaker 03

  Two of the three health, yeah.

• 18:11Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah. And so, and for that reason, they wouldn't be deal, like, they wouldn't be deal ready businesses, right? They're just basically a person with a job that has a couple of people who are helping them out. And then that person steps away. And now what? Right? And now you're just responsible. So basically two paths. So path one is that you raise money or get enough money to buy legit businesses. Option two is that you decide one of these businesses is the business that you want to do as your main thing. And you use your M and A skills to basically bolt on stuff to using that as a platform rather than having all these disparate businesses. So it makes sense. So it's like, if the commerce one is the best one, it's like, okay, can we acquire some sub brands or some sub product lines underneath that? Fold them into the brand and then flip that. That makes sense.

• 18:53Alex Hormozi?

  And that allows you to not have as much capital and you can organically grow it and then you can keep your focus. But there's a reason that most private equity firms only take on, call it five to eight investments. And that's after they raised half a billion dollars to make those deals. If they're in disparate industries. If they're a private equity firm that has a thesis based around basically a roll up strategy where they're like, we're only buying plumbing. And that's our whole, that's our whole thesis. Fine. And that's more akin to what you're doing in terms of alpha, a little bit more boring, more ops heavy. But you have, you don't have to have as much capital. And the more entrepreneurial you are, the more organic growth you're going to be able to drive in the, in the original platform business. Is that?

• 19:28Speaker 03

  Thank you. Yeah.

• 19:29Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 19:30Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Uh, my name's Chris. Uh, so, uh, eyeglasses to people that can't see. And specifically.

• 19:37Alex Hormozi?

  Nice.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Targeted, yeah.

• 19:39Speaker 04

  Ideally, right? So specifically trying to target a piece of that, which is not just your primary pair, which is like, I can't see, I need to see, but more specific things like driving, office, that kind of stuff, a little bit more of those task specific things. So this is going to sound funny here, but basically we do $0 in revenue. We'd love to be at 100 million.

• 19:59Alex Hormozi?

  You do $0 revenue?

• 20:00Speaker 04

  Yeah. So I'm going to, so basically I have a business that I'm exiting 10 locations. You know, like 12 million.

• 20:06Alex Hormozi?

  You don't care about that one?

• 20:06Speaker 04

  Coming out of that. So what I'm here for is to understand like, well, if I'm going to start this, let me start at the best.

• 20:11Alex Hormozi?

  Totally.

• 20:11Speaker 04

  What's the best vehicle, those kinds of things?

• 20:13Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 20:14Speaker 04

  That's why like, yeah, we're.

• 20:15Alex Hormozi?

  So you're going to brick and mortar?

• 20:16Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, we have 10 brick and mortar.

• 20:18Alex Hormozi?

  No, are you going for the glasses business?

• 20:20Speaker 04

  So that's kind of the question is really is like, do I go brick and mortar? So I could either, you know, use doctors as affiliates, et cetera. But the problem there is that they, their, their sales teams that otherwise don't tend to sell these glasses well. So, so I'm on the eye doctor. And so part of this is coming from knowing these common like five things that people

• 20:40Alex Hormozi?

  My mother and grandfather are ophthalmologists.

• 20:42Speaker 04

  Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Well, you know this well that I guess so. And so those common things are not being addressed well because it's just not communicated well, all the things. So then I have to like, figure out how to get them to sell the product that I'm making, which is like a whole challenge in itself. Or do I just sort of go more of the path of like direct to consumer and, and that kind of thing? And whether it be brick and mortar or combo of online, et cetera.

• 21:06Alex Hormozi?

  I think it depends on your strengths.

• 21:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:08Alex Hormozi?

  So Leila has a really good frame for these types of decisions, which is what problem would you rather have? Because you're going to have a problem, either of them, right? The problem that you described with the first one is basically the affiliate problem, which is how do I attract them? How do I keep them motivated? How do I train them? How do I keep quality high? How do I make sure that they're representing the brand the right way? That is the problem with affiliates. But the nice thing is that if you solve that problem, you get paid like 50 or 100 million dollars. And so like, I feel like there's an appropriate price tag ascribed to solving it. And that's what gets me through honestly harder times when you guys, because sometimes you're like, man, I just can't figure out how to get these conferences to work. It's like, yeah. And then as soon as you do, you make $10 million. So yeah, solve it. Like, that's how it works. When it comes to the direct to consumer side, if you feel like you're more skilled with, call it, you know, map, basically.

• 21:52Alex Hormozi?

  The business, like what business you're really in. So if you get into the direct to consumer business, you're competing against like snow teeth whitening. And like, if you look at the, the, the business model there, it's all media, it's all, it's all, you know, advertising driven type business. This is with glasses, likely very transactional. So it's a super direct response heavy business. You'd probably be recruiting affiliates for brand associations. You can be able to whitelist for them to be wearing your, you know, your, your glasses and whatnot. And that's the business that you're in. So it's going to be the problems that you're solving are, I have to be creating shitloads and shitloads of, of ads all the time. I have to be up to date on the best media buying stuff and have it really good at CRO, so conversion optimization. And I should probably over time develop a, a strong influencer affiliate strategy

• 22:36Alex Hormozi?

  so that I can actually build a brand rather than just a ROAS arbitrage business. That's that path. The other path is the brick and mortar affiliate path where you still are centralized. You're just using doctors as your distribution base. If I had to pick which one I would rather have, I would rather do that one. That's me personally. And you're also a physician, which I think gives you a little bit of leg up or at least foot in the door, figuratively and literally. I think that that one actually, if you want to sell a business in the future, would probably be more likely to be sellable. Just because the direct response nature of that other business is so volatile that any kind of like wrinkle of volatility in a year prior to a sale, sale's done, sale's off the table. And so whereas once you develop a strong affiliate base of basically referral network from physicians, though it is complex and challenging,

• 23:21Alex Hormozi?

  literally you just solve that one problem and you have the business.

• 23:23Speaker 04

  Yeah. It's a small follow up to that would be then is so in the vein that that's the ultimate goal. I, I know that, well, in order to get there, solving that problem means that I probably need to do this X, Y, Z here for that practice so that eventually I'll be able to do what it's a lot. That's, I guess, okay to sort of take that approach, that longer tail approach of it.

• 23:49Alex Hormozi?

  Nothing's fast.

• 23:50Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, sure.

• 23:52Alex Hormozi?

  No, I was just being like super real.

• 23:53Speaker 04

  Just more from obviously experience of seeing it and going like, oh, that's a stupid path versus.

• 23:58Alex Hormozi?

  No, I think either of those paths would work. I think given your experience from just the limited amount that I, you know, we've interacted right now.

• 24:04Speaker 04

  Of course.

• 24:04Alex Hormozi?

  If you'd said, I'm a hardcore direct response marketer. I make tons of media. I really understand that. Well, I'm really good at building sites and know people who can, you know, CRO really well. Then I'd be like, okay, maybe that's the play. But if, but you didn't jump at any of that. And so this one feels like the right path.

• 24:19Speaker 04

  All right. Makes sense.

• 24:19Alex Hormozi?

  That helps.

• 24:20Speaker 05

  Hey Alex, my name is Josiah. We sell chiropractic services to members of Lifetime Fitness. We're going to do 16 million this.

• 24:26Alex Hormozi?

  You do, sorry. So chiropractic services to members of Lifetime.

• 24:30Speaker 05

  Fitness.

• 24:30Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, got it. Are you within Lifetime?

• 24:32Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 24:32Alex Hormozi?

  Got it. Okay.

• 24:33Speaker 05

  Correct. This year we're going to do.

• 24:34Alex Hormozi?

  I was like, that's a niche. Uh, like your ads are like, are you a Lifetime Fitness member? You're the only people we take. I understand. Okay, got it. I got it.

• 24:42Speaker 05

  No, so we're going to do 16 million this year. Might get to 32 million. The thing that's stopping us right now is the sell for our chiropractors in the front end to the initial eight week plan.

• 24:51Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 24:52Speaker 05

  They don't convert really well.

• 24:53Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 24:54Speaker 05

  Some do. We use the closer framework.

• 24:56Alex Hormozi?

  Sure.

• 24:57Speaker 05

  And some doctors have three times the lifetime value of other doctors.

• 25:01Alex Hormozi?

  Mm hmm.

• 25:02Speaker 05

  The pushback we get is they say, I'm a doctor and a salesperson, too salesy. So they have a hard time following the script.

• 25:09Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 25:10Speaker 05

  How can I break their mindset?

• 25:12Alex Hormozi?

  I think you'll probably, one is I think Chick-fil-A is the head of people there has a really great framework on this, which is basically like, a lot of teams will lose in the playoffs and think they lost in the playoffs when they lost in the draft.

• 25:25Alex Hormozi?

  And so you might just have the wrong docs. And so if I think about like, you know, you have your customer avatar characteristics, you should be more selective about your chiropractor avatar characteristics. These are the beliefs you have to have about the world in order to, to, to function well within this business model. For the same reason that I didn't work with yogis and spin studios, even though it's literally this exact same business model as large bootcamps. It's the same business, but they were so like woo woo that my like raise prices and sell shit was like, whoa. And so I didn't work with them because they were just too big of a. And so to the same degree, I would say there are two ways to solve this. One is just pick the docs right up front.

• 26:08Alex Hormozi?

  The reason that I would prefer that one is that you you already have a business model that clearly works. Since I would be like hesitant to try and like change something. The second, well, sub point under that is probably just significantly more frequent training. And that's in the form of role playing. Like I have yet to find anything that is more effective than modeling and role playing. When it comes to transferring a skill, the nice thing is that sales can be transferred relatively quickly, especially because they're, you know, they're they're smart. They're they can figure it out. Would they get lost in his all the medical stuff? And they try and like techno juggle, you know, people, and then they have no idea. It's like, hey, you're in pain. I'll get you to be not pain by this thing.

• 26:40Alex Hormozi?

  But I think reading testimonials of patients who were undersold or not sold. And telling them that they are hurting them by not providing solutions to help them. And so I think to be clear, I would also position this as like, we're not selling here. We're making offers available to people who need them. That's all. So that's what I would try and do to like immediately try and fix the existing thing. If you feel like this is some structural thing, I'm not sold on the fact that it is. But I have seen models where they have patient care coordinator. And they just leave the doc in the back. And they've just found it easier to just find salespeople and just be like, cool. You're the manager of this location, which really just like lifetime fitness. The manager is just sales manager, right? Like we both know that. And so basically the patient care coordinator is just the salesperson.

• 27:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, cool. Thank you so much.

• 27:26Alex Hormozi?

  No, you bet. Does that that help though?

• 27:28Speaker 05

  Super helpful.

• 27:29Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 27:29Speaker 05

  I was already talking with Jacob really about sales in terms of simplifying this and then starting like a three times a week.

• 27:36Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 27:37Speaker 05

  Role play. So that's been hit a few times. And then just talking with Frank too, it's like, I think we do have opportunities from the hiring standpoint. We just got to dial in the expectation we put even in the post interview process, so.

• 27:50Alex Hormozi?

  Because there are definitely some chiropractors who love selling.

• 27:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 27:52Alex Hormozi?

  And so one other thing that I think you can do tactically to make kind of operationalize this besides the role playing and constant feedback. Is because of the benefit of being one in person and two a physician, having a clipboard that has the script on it with checkmarks. Makes it really hard to mess up. It's like, so what brought you in today?

• 28:10Alex Hormozi?

  Tell me where it hurts.

• 28:14Alex Hormozi?

  On a scale from one to 10, how bad does it hurt? A lot. Tell me all the things that you can't do as a result of this pain. Tell me all the things that you wish you could do that if this pain were resolved, you would now be able to do. All right, so what have you tried so far? Ah, that's interesting. We're not like that. You didn't like that. Oh, you like that? We're a lot like that. Great, wonderful. And so basically, from everything that you've told me, if you really hated this stuff and you really like this stuff, I think you're gonna love what I have to tell you. Can I talk to you about it? Great. Permission for the close? And then I just say like, great, there's three options, blah, blah, blah. And we go into the pitch.

• 28:47Speaker 05

  I liked you. I mean, you dropped that video a little bit on the plane. Exactly. I loved your idea about just breaking it to like a script on like a laptop or iPad. Just like go through it together. That seems genius. So, thanks so much.

• 29:00Alex Hormozi?

  No, you bet.

• 29:01Speaker 06

  My name's Christian and I sell solar to homeowners and we do $20 million in revenue a year. I'd like to be at 160 million in revenue. The biggest thing that's stopping me is we can recruit unlimited appointment setters. The reps that we bring on are independent contractors. So there's not a high cost there. The biggest bottleneck is that although we could bring on unlimited appointment setters, we need the leaders to be able to help scale. You all right?

• 29:29Alex Hormozi?

  Arm hair.

• 29:32Speaker 06

  We need the leaders to help, you know, obviously lead those guys through the job, help hold them accountable. And we have a lack of leaders issue where we don't recruit externally, like from other companies to take leaders from. It's not my preference. I like to develop them internally. But it also comes at the cost of it's very slow to develop leaders.

• 29:54Alex Hormozi?

  How long has it taken you to get from zero to 20?

• 29:58Speaker 06

  It's been five years now.

• 29:59Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 29:59Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 30:00Alex Hormozi?

  Heard. Well, what problem would you rather have? Slower growth or faster growth?

• 30:06Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 30:07Alex Hormozi?

  So faster growth and dilution of culture, probably more fires for finding wrong people that are good leaders and then mis-hire underneath of them and having to lay those kind of branches off and then bring new people in or continue to grow on the path that you're currently on, which seems to be working pretty well.

• 30:21Speaker 06

  Yeah. I mean, just thinking out loud, I'd prefer to grow slower. But like obviously, it would be really cool to have my cake and eat it too.

• 30:28Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 30:30Speaker 06

  Yeah, I guess is is there an intermediary road where?

• 30:34Alex Hormozi?

  Can I just get the best of the fast growth and the great culture?

• 30:39Speaker 06

  How can I guess the probably the question is how can we help grow and develop leaders quicker within our organization?

• 30:44Alex Hormozi?

  So I'll bet you right now that you're probably pretty good at training sales.

• 30:47Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 30:47Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, you have to get good at training leadership.

• 30:50Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 30:52Alex Hormozi?

  So right now you're a sales training fundamentally like you're in the business and I've had lots of various sales driven organizations like your business is a sales driven organization. You're in the recruiting, onboarding and training of salespeople business and you just happen to sell roofs, right? Solar. And if you needed tomorrow to sell roofs, you'd fucking sell roofs.

• 31:06Speaker 06

  Yeah, we have roofing companies.

• 31:08Alex Hormozi?

  Right, exactly. Of course. Couldn't leave money on the table. I'm kidding. But basically what it is is that you have really operationalized, have to get someone to do a specific set of behaviors that increase the likelihood that someone gives you money. Period. So now you need to have a different set of behaviors that you have to standardize around leadership that increase the like that people follow directives.

• 31:26Speaker 06

  Okay. One challenge I have is like I've tried to shift the culture till we've like put together a leadership development program. But I noticed that what will happen is some of the salespeople will start focusing on the leadership development stuff and then their sales volume goes down.

• 31:39Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 31:40Speaker 06

  Cause they're like.

• 31:40Alex Hormozi?

  We're even picking for the for the leaders.

• 31:42Speaker 06

  What was that?

• 31:43Alex Hormozi?

  So I'll tell you this, in my experience, the best leaders, especially in sales organizations are not the best closers.

• 31:49Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 31:50Alex Hormozi?

  And the best closers in every business that I own make more than the sales managers.

• 31:55Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 31:56Alex Hormozi?

  And so if you have a killer, let him kill, let him hunt. It's the guys who were like three out of 10s worked really hard to get to a six or seven out of 10. Those guys I found have been exceptional, uh, sales managers and leaders.

• 32:10Speaker 06

  Interesting.

• 32:10Alex Hormozi?

  And so I would be trying to identify that because the thing is, is like some of the best basketball coaches were not the best players. But they were guys who loved basketball, loved their teammates, loved learning how to get better. So they could point out what someone else needs to do, even if they're not as good as it at it. And so you probably have a little bit of a pick them issue, which is that you might be picking the wrong horses because now you're hurting yourself twice. You're losing a sales guy and don't have a good leader.

• 32:32Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 32:32Alex Hormozi?

  Right?

• 32:33Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 32:33Alex Hormozi?

  Uh, and so I would say leave the best sales guys alone.

• 32:36Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 32:36Alex Hormozi?

  And then look for the middle of the pack guys that everyone loves. Like you know, those guys like they're not the. Best closers, but like everyone loves them. They're like spiritual leaders of the of the team that they're on. Those guys are the ones that make banger sales managers. And this is a pattern recognition thing. I'm sure like you'll get it.

• 32:52Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 32:53Alex Hormozi?

  And then really, because the thing is, is those guys eat up the leadership stuff. And and then basically the way that you train sales, I'm sure it's really militant. You train leadership the same way. So leadership development path isn't like once a month, we do a fucking training.

• 33:06Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 33:06Alex Hormozi?

  No, I'm being real because some of you guys have that. You're like, oh, we're pouring to our people. Once a month, we spend an hour with them.

• 33:12Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 33:13Alex Hormozi?

  Great. And then when that takes, you know, 25 years for them to become a leader because they've forgotten between each one hour, where they just have a random zoom call, then maybe you'll teach them how to lead, right? And so you have to train it the way that you train sales.

• 33:25Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 33:26Alex Hormozi?

  Which is intense, many hours, lots of shadowing.

• 33:29Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 33:29Alex Hormozi?

  Full days, like one day a week, you're with the other sales manager for a month or two. Because the thing is, is they know what to do. They lose it in the how. And a lot of that gets there. Obviously, you want to get as good as you can operationalizing the the smaller skills. But there's 100 things that someone does. You might operationalize the 15 most important ones, but the other 85 still make a big difference.

• 33:50Speaker 06

  And so when I was like a sales leader, like running a team, I was a really good player coach and I'd lead from the front, just closing a shit ton of deals.

• 33:56Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 33:56Speaker 06

  But like.

• 33:57Alex Hormozi?

  But you own a $20 million business.

• 34:00Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 34:01Alex Hormozi?

  Why can't everyone be me?

• 34:03Speaker 06

  So player coach is bad?

• 34:04Alex Hormozi?

  20 of me, oh, my God, I would be so much, but you're not.

• 34:07Speaker 06

  So player coach is good or bad idea?

• 34:09Alex Hormozi?

  I prefer, it depends, because you're a bigger organization, so this applies just.

• 34:13Speaker 06

  And and for context, the reason I like lean towards player coach sometimes is because there's shared risk, like mutual risk, because we're going out and knocking on doors every day.

• 34:21Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 34:21Speaker 06

  And if your sales leader isn't doing that to some extent.

• 34:24Alex Hormozi?

  I mean, you could have him do half days if you really want to, but like, if it really depends on the ratio of sales lead or leader to guys. I found after like six ish, it's it's a full time job if you really want them to manage the team.

• 34:37Speaker 06

  Cool. Okay, thank you.

• 34:40Alex Hormozi?

  Now, smaller sales teams, you have three guys. One guy's a player coach. You don't have the you don't have the bandwidth to have somebody who's managing full time.

• 34:45Speaker 06

  Beautiful. Thank you, Alex.

• 34:46Speaker 04

  Hi, my name is Adam.

• 34:48Speaker 06

  Have a music lessons and recording studio in Atlanta, Georgia. And your, your content, you and Leila, what you, what you've done has profoundly changed my life because you've put me out of my comfort zone in how I think. And so I sell music lessons to neurodivergent kids between eight and 18. We have a half million dollars of revenue.

• 35:11Alex Hormozi?

  Awesome.

• 35:12Speaker 06

  I think we could be at $2 million of revenue. And what's stopping me is I've realized that the model is completely broken. I'm underpriced, overcompensating the staff. We're under utilizing capacity in terms of

• 35:26Alex Hormozi?

  Square footage.

• 35:27Speaker 06

  Time and, and physical space and time. And so my question is, how would you apply first principles thinking to what I should do now, next and later?

• 35:41Alex Hormozi?

  Sure.

• 35:42Speaker 06

  To run the business that I've got as we make the transition to one that becomes an asset.

• 35:48Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah. So basically the core, so there's, there's two, a chunked down version and chunked up version of the core economic engine that makes a business successful. So LTV to CAC is the, the most, the smallest version of that engine. You put some money in, you get more money out. That's the, the gross profit you run the entire business off of. At a higher level, it's return on invested capital. Right? So it's like, okay, that's what the core machine is, but then there's also equipment, there's leases, there's build outs, there's all that stuff that goes into it. That's not typically included in LTV to CAC. And then how much does it cost us to build this machine again and again? So that's kind of how I think about it, like micro level, it's out of your CAC. Return on invested capital is what it is at the macro level. When you're like opening more and more locations and saying, it costs me 500,000 to open a location. Location makes me $500,000 for the first six months.

• 36:32Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, cool. I've got a two, one, you know, return on, on capital within a year, which is awesome. Right? So let's tackle for you. So the nice thing about the music business is that it's actually identical to the gym business. So I know a lot about it. And so the, the, the models that I have seen works unbelievably well have been semi-private models. Number one, or. The 30 minute, multiple times a week, much higher ticket. People, you know, people stay three, four, or five years with music lessons with their, their, their person. I prefer semi-private because I think you get more loyalty to the brand. And it's less about the music teacher who can then leave and then take all of those, you know, students and go private. And so I like semi-private in general. Also, I'm sure you could sell around the idea that they get a little bit more socialized.

• 37:17Alex Hormozi?

  It's probably good for them and all that jazz. And in terms of pricing, I want my gross margins to be at least 80%, ideally 90. And so now you can do that when you're one on six, harder one on one.

• 37:32Alex Hormozi?

  And so if, let's say you have six kids, right, in a class or four. I mean, you can, you can, you can, you know, level into it, but let's say it's one on four. Keep it math simple. And you charge $200, sorry, $50 per session times four kids is 200. You make $200 per session, right? Well, for you to pay for an hour of music teacher's time, what does that cost?

• 37:56Speaker 04

  Right now, that would be 40 to $50.

• 38:00Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, so that's 80% right there. So 240, so 80% gross margins right there. Now, if you charge 60 bucks a session, you'd be at 240. So then you'd be at like 84, whatever, in terms of gross margins. So you're above that. But that's my, that's my rule of thumb for brick and mortar service businesses is I want it to be over 80. Ideally over 90, but I will not do a business if it has lower than 80% gross margin. Some people do, I just don't like to.

• 38:27Alex Hormozi?

  Cause you don't have enough cash to do anything. Right. And so then the question is, okay, how do we, how do we create the sales process and the positioning so that? Now, you already are working with a special class of customers. And so I would imagine that you would be able to probably even more easily than a traditional music academy, sell at a premium price. Because if I'm a parent who had a neurodivergent kid, I would be willing to pay for a specialist. And so specialist prices are a premium. So I think that would work. And in terms of the model, you can, I mean, it just headcount divided by teachers, basically. But you have to get the core gross profit right in the business and then everything else kind of flows from there.

• 39:12Speaker 06

  I'm kind of in the same position that this guy over here was, and I don't have an operator. And so I'm kind of in that swamp too. And trying to.

• 39:19Alex Hormozi?

  So we have to get more margin. You have to get more cash flow. Cash flow allows everybody to breathe better.

• 39:25Speaker 06

  So, okay, I guess that makes sense. We'd raise prices and get that different sort of client funding.

• 39:33Alex Hormozi?

  Sell one on four and say, and just sell around the fact that it's a better experience for them. Because you don't want them to be married to a teacher. You want them to be married to, like, this is how I would sell it. I would say, listen, Mrs. Whatever. Like, if your child becomes really attached to a single teacher, then if that teacher leaves, then all of a sudden, this skill that they spend all this time on, they'll associate with the teacher. And then all of a sudden, they stop playing violin after five years. You don't want that. I don't want that. What we want is to create a positive relationship with the skill so they just continue it for life. Right? Right? And so we facilitate that by having other people in the sessions and so that the teachers sometimes do change so that no one really goes too attached to anybody, but they really grow attached to the craft. That's how I would sell it.

• 40:19Alex Hormozi?

  Whether that's true or not, no idea. But that's, I don't know.

• 40:22Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 40:22Alex Hormozi?

  But like, that's how it's, does that make sense?

• 40:25Speaker 06

  It does.

• 40:25Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah. So that would be my positioning. And I think if you, if you just switch the ratio to one on four. And so, okay, everybody. So if you are capacity constrained, so some of you guys are in that position, like you, you're, you can't, you can barely handle the customers that you have right now. You have three solutions. The easiest solution is you just raise prices. Because if you have supply constrained, then that means that you have more demand than you have supply. Prices go up, right? And most people just don't do that and just suffer. So just raise the prices, make more money. That's solution number one. The second solution is change client delivery ratio, which we just covered. So instead of going one to one, you go one to four. So you get more out of what you already have. This gives you leverage and it gives you cash flow. improves your gross margins. The third way is to bring other people in who can do what you do,

• 41:09Alex Hormozi?

  which is then delegating, you know, the responsibility, right, to somebody else. So that's the ultimate leverage. So you don't have to do any of it. Does that make sense? So there's a kind of like the three steps that I think about when I have somebody who's supply constrained and they don't have any time. They kick out of the business and they kit some more customers, but they need to sell more customers to grow the business. It's the rock and hard place. And the nice thing is we start with price because it's the fastest and easiest one to do.

• 41:31Alex Hormozi?

  You don't have to do anything. You have to change anything. You just say a different word and then you make more money.

• 41:35Speaker 06

  So our, our primary thing when we opened was it was a hundred percent private lessons.

• 41:39Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 41:40Speaker 06

  And so that's where, that's basically the only difference in the, the hypothetical gym in gym launch, which I'd read the whole thing on the plane over here. You know how I didn't know that book didn't exist until?

• 41:51Alex Hormozi?

  It's a good book.

• 41:51Speaker 06

  It's awesome. But like, so what would that, what would the?

• 41:55Alex Hormozi?

  You can still have one on one. You can still have one on one. Just, I would predominantly sell somewhere private. And if someone's like, well, I want the special snowflake treatment. Then you're like, awesome. I'll give you this special snowflake price.

• 42:05Speaker 06

  Right. How would you design the initial offer for that type of model? The six week beginner challenge?

• 42:15Alex Hormozi?

  So I would have, so you know this, you would know the outcome better than I do. But it would be something, whatever, whatever the fast outcome that you can deliver to a kid who's neurodivergent, who picks up a violin or whatever the instruments that you teach are. Right. It's like, they'll be able to play this, like a song in this period of time. Right? Now it might not be good, but like they'll be able, you'll, you'll recognize it kind of, right? But like, I would want some sort of discrete outcome. And that would be like an outcome. You could also do some sort of subjective thing, which is that like they rate X or they, like you could have a survey at the beginning, serve at the end. That would be kind of more of an internal thing.

• 42:50Speaker 06

  Got it.

• 42:51Alex Hormozi?

  But yeah, typically you'll serve, you'll, you'll sell some sort of package upfront. I, I'm going to guess that the price point for what you're looking at is going between 600 and 2,000 is what the upfront package would be. And then you'd upsell or at least let people go into continuity on the backend. And it'd probably be somewhere in the neighborhood of like six weeks to six months. You would know that range better in terms of how long this all for.

• 43:12Speaker 06

  Okay. Yeah. And the, the best thing, the, we're drowning in context. We're a recording studios. Kids are making songs all the time and they should be.

• 43:19Alex Hormozi?

  Meeting the marketing, but it's just so much, then there's that whole problem, but. Yeah, you just need time, man. Like, I think what's interesting is that like, the more stressed you are, the lower, this is not me, this is not a slight, just to be clear. I'm saying in general, the more stressed anyone is, the lower your IQ is. And so I'm saying this to say that, again, this isn't a you. I'm saying that the problems that you struggle with when you are stressed, when you have a good night's sleep and a little bit of time, you solve in like five minutes. And so if you want to increase your capacity, it's like, let's solve for capacity. And then a lot of these things that are keeping you up at night, you're like, oh, we'll just run a six week thing or run a 12 week thing. We'll solve for this. I can see how the margins work out.

• 44:00Alex Hormozi?

  And like, we already have more demand than we can handle, so it's okay if people say no at our higher prices, because we'll make it up and profit anyways. Only people who do say yes.

• 44:09Alex Hormozi?

  Does that make sense? That wasn't a slight, to be clear. I'm saying for anybody. That's fine. Yeah, no, it's, it's true. So. Cool. I appreciate that. Yeah, you bet.