Jennie Garth

Jennie Garth (I Choose Me, 90210, What I Like About You) is an award-winning actor and author. Jennie joins the Armchair Expert to discuss her vegan journey, being discovered in a pageant and moving to LA to work as an actor, and the recent experience of watching herself in Beverly Hills, 90210 for the first time. Jennie and Dax talk about how tense dynamics between their characters began to seep into real life, what it means for her to have been ‘born blue,’ and the layered, heartbreaking connection she had to Luke Perry. Jennie explains how having kids young saved her life amid the industry, having her stomach pumped at the end of her marriage, and healing through Buddhism and learning to care for herself after a near-divorce. Take printer ink off your to-do list with HP Smart Tank | hp.com/SmartTank Check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds: https://www.allstate.com/ See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax Shepard. I'm joined by Monica Padman.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 0:05Dax Shepard?

  Today we have, boy, we were just saying in the fact check, you told me in 95 this day was gonna happen. I just wouldn't have believed you.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  You would never have believed it.

• 0:13Dax Shepard?

  Jennie Garth.

• 0:14Speaker 01

  Donna Martin graduates.

• 0:16Dax Shepard?

  She's not Donna Martin, of course, but yes, we loved Donna Martin graduates.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:21Dax Shepard?

  Jennie Garth is an actor, a cultural icon, and an advocate. Beverly Hills 90210.

• 0:26Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 0:27Dax Shepard?

  And we'll get into it in the episode, but if you're, if you're listening and you're, you're under 30, you don't know how big this show is. You can't, there is no show as big as this show is currently to compare it to.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  It's wild.

• 0:38Dax Shepard?

  Also 90210, What I Like About You, A Kindhearted Christmas, and she has a memoir that we are going to talk about extensively called I Choose Me.

• 0:48Speaker 01

  She's got a life, man.

• 0:49Dax Shepard?

  That's a line from an episode of Beverly Hills. Remember there was a love triangle between her and Dylan, and she chose her.

• 0:56Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 0:58Dax Shepard?

  Please enjoy Jennie Garth. Thank you to our presenting sponsor, HP, for supporting this episode. Their HP Smart Tank printer is the last printer you'll ever need. Oh, here we go, Monica. With a refillable ink tank and up to three years of ink included, so you get thousands of pages of cartridge-free printing. Hallelujah. To learn more, search for HP Smart Tank. We are supported by Walden University. You know that feeling when you've been thinking about making a move, going after the degree, the promotion, the thing you keep telling yourself you'll get to someday? Walden University is built for that moment. For over 50 years,

• 1:41Dax Shepard?

  Walden has helped working professionals get the W, the knowledge, the skills, and the confidence to create real change in their careers and communities. Their programs are designed around your life, not the other way around. With Tempo Learning, available in select programs, there are no rigid schedules or set weekly deadlines. You move at your own pace. And Walden's faculty aren't just academics. They're practitioners who bring real-world experience into everything they teach. From your first class to career coaching and beyond, Walden is your partner the whole way. Take the first step and learn at a pace that works for you. Visit waldenu.edu. Walden University. Set a course for change. Certified to operate by CHEV.

• 2:41Dax Shepard?

  You were gonna bring Monica something?

• 2:43Speaker 02

  Well, and you.

• 2:44Dax Shepard?

  It's alright if it's Monica.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  Oh, I do love merch. Yeah.

• 2:50Dax Shepard?

  You're a slave to merch.

• 2:51Speaker 01

  I really am. I really am.

• 2:54Dax Shepard?

  Where were you coming from?

• 2:55Speaker 02

  Pasadena.

• 2:56Dax Shepard?

  Is that where you live?

• 2:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:57Dax Shepard?

  I like Pasadena. Have you gotten interested in the history of Pasadena since moving there?

• 3:02Speaker 02

  There are so many historical, amazing.

• 3:05Dax Shepard?

  Estates.

• 3:05Speaker 02

  Buildings.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, and Houston's historical.

• 3:08Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I've never been there.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  You haven't?

• 3:11Dax Shepard?

  What is wrong with you? Why are you boycotting Houston?

• 3:13Speaker 02

  I don't eat meat. It's okay. Well, but my husband really wants to go there, so I think maybe.

• 3:18Speaker 01

  Oh, you gotta go.

• 3:19Speaker 02

  Nah.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  It's okay. They have great salads. They have great artichoke dip.

• 3:24Dax Shepard?

  You wouldn't think it, but the sushi's outrageous.

• 3:26Speaker 02

  It's so good. At Houston's? Yeah.

• 3:29Speaker 01

  You'll be shocked.

• 3:30Dax Shepard?

  You're giggling. It's counterintuitive.

• 3:32Speaker 02

  I mean, I don't eat sushi either, but I'm sure I can find something.

• 3:35Speaker 01

  You're gonna find something. You're gonna love it. How strict are you on your vegetarianism? Because I go with two of my friends and one of them's a vegetarian. We would always get the spinach artichoke dip. She could have that and it's the best thing on the planet. And then one day she came and she said, I think there's chicken stock in this. And then she asked and there was, and now she can't eat it.

• 3:57Dax Shepard?

  You don't have stock?

• 3:58Speaker 02

  It really stinks when you find foods that you love so much. You're like, wait, this has some hidden dairy in it.

• 4:03Dax Shepard?

  So stock, we don't mess with?

• 4:04Speaker 01

  We draw the line?

• 4:06Speaker 02

  I don't eat hardly anything, you guys.

• 4:08Dax Shepard?

  You know, you're done. You're post-eating as a person.

• 4:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, like I'm over it.

• 4:12Dax Shepard?

  From it?

• 4:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, too much work.

• 4:14Speaker 01

  Lot of energy.

• 4:14Speaker 02

  I've never been a foodie, so that's helpful.

• 4:16Dax Shepard?

  Are you vegetarian or vegan?

• 4:18Speaker 02

  Vegan.

• 4:18Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God, all the way.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:20Dax Shepard?

  For how long?

• 4:21Speaker 02

  If you're gonna do something, do it.

• 4:22Dax Shepard?

  How long have you been doing it?

• 4:23Speaker 02

  On and off for years and years, but I went off of it when I had kids, so I was eating for them, eating chicken and stuff.

• 4:30Dax Shepard?

  That was Kristen's first meat. She was pregnant and she's called me. I was at a restaurant and she said, order me the bison meatloaf sandwich. I was like, you haven't eaten meat in 32 years. She goes, Delta wants a bison meatloaf sandwich.

• 4:41Speaker 02

  You gotta give them what they want.

• 4:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  I wanted chicken McNuggets.

• 4:45Dax Shepard?

  Out of health or concern for animals?

• 4:48Speaker 02

  Both. I grew up on a farm in Illinois where my dad went. Kill our pigs for the dinner table. I just never loved that, but I ate pork chops because I was told to. And then I just got to the place where I'm like, nobody's telling me what to eat anymore. So when I was away from the home, I would eat Lucky Charms and Taco Bell constantly. Cause then I was just like, woo hoo, freedom from my mom who only let us eat healthy things. Now, just as an adult, I feel like at this phase in my life, I just want to take the best possible care I can of myself. I'm so scared of dying. So when you have sudden loss around you, unexpected, out of nowhere loss, it just happened again this last week, you really go, whoa, okay, priorities. I want to take the best care of myself I can, and I love it.

• 5:32Speaker 02

  I love feeling clean and healthy and waking up clear.

• 5:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Okay, back to Illinois. Yeah, you were on like a 25 acre farm. You're the youngest of seven?

• 5:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 5:42Dax Shepard?

  But you're the only child of your dad and your mom.

• 5:45Speaker 02

  It was very Brady Bunch. And then I was like Oliver.

• 5:50Speaker 02

  He wasn't even theirs, but yeah, I was the only one by both my parents. So I was the baby.

• 5:55Dax Shepard?

  What was the relationship with the siblings?

• 5:58Speaker 02

  They loved their new dad so much, my father, and they were very happy. They were excited to have a little baby.

• 6:05Dax Shepard?

  Okay, good.

• 6:05Speaker 02

  I was everybody's little baby.

• 6:07Dax Shepard?

  The oldest one was what, 20 some years older than you or something?

• 6:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:11Dax Shepard?

  And dad didn't have custody of those six kids, or did he?

• 6:14Speaker 02

  He had his own children. He had two sons and a daughter. And he ended up adopting my mom's kids.

• 6:21Dax Shepard?

  I got it. So your mom had kids as well. It was a true Brady Bunch.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, she had three girls and he had two sons and a girl.

• 6:29Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow. So you had a mix of step. No, they're all half, but two different sets. Well, this is some permutation. You guys moved when you're 13 or something to Arizona to Glendale? What prompted that move?

• 6:42Speaker 02

  The weather in Illinois is really harsh, very hard winters. And my father had developed heart disease, cardiovascular disease. So they determined that that was too hard on his heart, the cold weather. And he liked to work outside and it was just too much for him.

• 6:57Dax Shepard?

  What did he do for a living?

• 6:58Speaker 02

  He was an educator. Both my parents were teachers. He taught adult education. He actually started adult education in the state of Illinois in the seventies. And he loved what he did. He loved teaching adults who had never had the opportunity or the privilege of learning how to read.

• 7:14Dax Shepard?

  These people are getting their GED. Is that what that is?

• 7:16Speaker 02

  They're people that just want to learn how to read.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 7:20Dax Shepard?

  Not even any necessary goal in mind.

• 7:23Speaker 02

  No, I just think to have a better life.

• 7:25Dax Shepard?

  So when you guys moved to Arizona, they both get jobs as teachers in Arizona?

• 7:29Speaker 02

  No, my mom had done Shackley. Have you ever heard of that? It's very long ago.

• 7:33Dax Shepard?

  Vitamins.

• 7:33Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 7:34Dax Shepard?

  It's a multi-level marketing.

• 7:36Speaker 02

  Yes, she got so good at it that she ended up getting a pink Cadillac from the company.

• 7:41Dax Shepard?

  Well, they also do a pink Cadillac.

• 7:43Speaker 02

  Isn't that weird?

• 7:44Dax Shepard?

  They were like, it works at Mary Kay. Don't fuck with it. It's not broken.

• 7:47Speaker 02

  Don't need to reinvent that.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh.

• 7:49Speaker 02

  But she left that and then she started another MLM in Arizona. I don't remember what that one was.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  So is your garage is filled with items? That's what we learn about people in MLMs. Their garage is just like filled with the vitamins or the drinks.

• 8:03Dax Shepard?

  The stock.

• 8:03Speaker 02

  My mom had a whole stock room. I loved to organize things from a very young age. So I would go in there and organize all the vitamins and the packets and the soup packets and the shake packets.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:14Dax Shepard?

  Those vitamins have a distinct smell.

• 8:16Speaker 02

  Shackley?

• 8:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, someone, of course, got my parents in their Target. We own Shackley. I don't think anyone ever took them. But when I would just open the cabinet where the Shackley's was, like I was hit with this mineral smell.

• 8:27Speaker 02

  Distinct.

• 8:28Dax Shepard?

  Fragrant.

• 8:29Speaker 02

  Especially the soup.

• 8:30Dax Shepard?

  Oh, so was the Shackley making the soup as well?

• 8:33Speaker 02

  Yes, powdered soup. I actually liked it.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  You did?

• 8:37Dax Shepard?

  It was good.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  What flavor, like chicken?

• 8:39Speaker 02

  It was like cream of chicken or something.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  Wow, powder.

• 8:42Dax Shepard?

  I don't think that's an intuitive extension of products.

• 8:45Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 8:45Dax Shepard?

  Like make vitamins and go to soup. Maybe a shampoo and conditioner that had vitamins in it.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  Well, maybe the soup had the vitamins crushed up.

• 8:52Speaker 02

  Maybe. It had to have been good for you.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, it had to.

• 8:56Dax Shepard?

  And was she making money? Because we've had an MLM expert on. And the percentage of people who actually make money is very, very, very small. But was she crushing? Was she making a lot of money?

• 9:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, she was making enough money. I don't think a lot of money was ever made, but she loved doing it. It made her feel alive and she's really great with people, so she loved it.

• 9:16Dax Shepard?

  When you moved to Arizona, he's not taking a teaching job there. She's the primary and only breadwinner at that point.

• 9:21Speaker 02

  At that point, yes, because he had had a massive heart attack, which prompted us to leave Illinois. So for a while, she was taking care of, supporting him and me. The other girls were already out of the house. She's a hustler, so she did what she had to do, for sure.

• 9:35Dax Shepard?

  When do you start dancing and entering pageants?

• 9:39Speaker 02

  That must have been my eighth grade or my freshman year. There was like a little dance studio on our corner. Well, we forgot about this. Okay, my mom and dad got separated. I never really understood it because I was so mad about it, but he moved up to Prescott, Arizona.

• 9:54Dax Shepard?

  I don't like how they pronounce that.

• 9:55Speaker 02

  Prescott, Prescott.

• 9:56Dax Shepard?

  They say Prescott, but it's spelled Prescott. They say Prescott.

• 10:01Speaker 02

  Prescott, like it's a biscuit. No, I didn't ever like it either.

• 10:04Dax Shepard?

  But he went up to Prescott.

• 10:05Speaker 02

  He went up to Prescott, had his little farm up there and was living a quiet life. He didn't like the city.

• 10:10Dax Shepard?

  You don't have any sense of what prompted that?

• 10:13Speaker 02

  I really stayed out of their relationship and I had a room upstairs. I tried to stay away from it. I don't like to get into other people's business unnecessarily.

• 10:22Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  Were they fighting or what?

• 10:25Speaker 02

  I never really saw them fight. No.

• 10:28Dax Shepard?

  I'm so curious. Something can't be going on and I don't know what it is. Like I have to know what's going on. And if dad left, I'd say to mom, like, what just happened?

• 10:37Speaker 02

  I think I was a teenager. Like I was pretty self-absorbed in my own world, in my own head a lot.

• 10:42Speaker 01

  Maybe it's a self-protective mechanism too, because if you find out, maybe the answer is something you really don't want to know. And maybe you knew that on some level, like I don't really want to know.

• 10:53Speaker 02

  I think so. And I was upset at my mom, but then I would go spend time with my dad up in Prescott and I'd be so bored.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:01Speaker 02

  I'd be like, ugh.

• 11:03Dax Shepard?

  So this makes a little more sense because when I learned. That you and mom moved to LA at 16. Something precedes that. You're at a pageant and you meet a manager, and this again, and you say it in the book. By most accounts, this is a dicey scenario, right? So explain what happens at the pageant.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  I was like 15 and I was in a pageant, like a one-time deal. I thought it was for a dance scholarship so I could go to college and become a dance teacher or dancer. Turns out I wasn't that good, but I did dance as my talent in that show. And it was in like Laughlin, Nevada or something. He was one of the judges. Somebody had called in a favor to him and said, can you come be a judge for me? I can't do it. He lived in New York City. He was the head of casting. So he said to his wife, yeah, let's go do it for my friend and we'll have a trip out of it. So he had brought his wife, which made it a little less weird.

• 11:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 11:55Speaker 02

  But he did come up to us.

• 11:57Dax Shepard?

  Scott was?

• 11:58Speaker 02

  His name's Randy.

• 11:59Dax Shepard?

  Oh, Randy.

• 12:00Speaker 02

  Randy James, and we call him Mr. Showbiz, but he's a legend. I've been with him ever since, since I was 15 years old.

• 12:06Dax Shepard?

  That's crazy. And he says, I think you could be in showbiz. But this is a middle-aged man saying to a 15-year-old girl in a pageant, I think you'd be in showbiz. Like alarm bells are normally going off.

• 12:16Speaker 02

  For sure. My mom was right there with me and his wife was right there with it. It was actually her, Kelly's idea for him to approach me because he was in casting. Like he was always looking for the next thing.

• 12:26Dax Shepard?

  I have a question. If you're the baby of the family and you're blonde and cute, and then you go into pageants, do you start sensing your value is your cuteness? And what does that do? Have you explored that? To be the object of such affection in that way and to be kind of getting told your values, this cuteness, how does that set your own?

• 12:51Speaker 02

  Self-esteem?

• 12:51Dax Shepard?

  An identity?

• 12:52Speaker 02

  It does affect it for sure. Once I moved to Hollywood and started becoming a success so young, that's when I really started to recognize it and have a lot of thoughts in my head about it.

• 13:04Dax Shepard?

  I think every kid should get adored. And I also think you can be too adored.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  You can.

• 13:10Dax Shepard?

  I think it can be dangerous to get too adored.

• 13:11Speaker 02

  It is. I don't like being adored.

• 13:14Dax Shepard?

  And also, I can imagine, like, once the family adoration stops, it's like, there's this big hole that you've only been formatted for that. You now need that.

• 13:23Speaker 02

  Right. I needed to go seek it from boys. I wanted to get it from girls that never really worked out in junior high and high school. So I was just isolated and would really just try to get it from the boys. I had a boyfriend.

• 13:36Dax Shepard?

  What grade? Right out of the gates?

• 13:38Speaker 02

  Freshman year. He was a senior.

• 13:40Dax Shepard?

  None in middle school, junior high?

• 13:41Speaker 02

  No. Well, I did kiss Ray Padilla.

• 13:43Dax Shepard?

  Congratulations.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  Congratulations, Ray. Good for Ray.

• 13:47Dax Shepard?

  Was he your age or was he older?

• 13:48Speaker 02

  He was older, much older.

• 13:50Dax Shepard?

  28?

• 13:53Speaker 01

  Randy's age.

• 13:55Speaker 02

  He was already in high school. He was hot.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  That's fun. But then, yeah, you're in a loop of getting validation. You know that's where you can get a quick hit.

• 14:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, you start to seek that, I guess.

• 14:06Dax Shepard?

  Of course.

• 14:07Speaker 02

  As much as you hate it, it's this weird dichotomy because that's what you think your worth is. Like, you go to that like a heat-seeking missile, but at the same time, it repulses you.

• 14:17Dax Shepard?

  You want to be appreciated and adored for other qualities, but that's not what's being offered.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  We all want what we don't have.

• 14:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we want what we don't have.

• 14:25Speaker 01

  Grass is always green.

• 14:27Dax Shepard?

  But I will say, the thing that was rewarded to me, I'm a little bit more in control of it, right? Like, I can generate comedy.

• 14:34Speaker 02

  Funny.

• 14:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and comedy doesn't have a shelf, although it does a little bit. In general, I can pursue that. So it's interesting, the thing I wanted, I guess I'm probably more grateful that the only thing I got really applauded for was being clever.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would have rather be applauded for being clever.

• 14:48Dax Shepard?

  I wish I was just hot.

• 14:51Speaker 01

  Same.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  I didn't know what I was, other than that. I did okay in school, so I wasn't like the smart one, but I was just the baby and the cute one and the one that everybody wanted to, like, take care of.

• 15:04Dax Shepard?

  Touch and pick up and squeeze cheeks of.

• 15:07Speaker 02

  Right. You know, when you're trying to figure out who you are as a young teen, that starts to really happen, I think. I didn't get a sense of who I was outside of that.

• 15:16Dax Shepard?

  But then this career path presents itself, which is perfect. You've kind of been hand-built for you to be good at this thing. So he says this, you could have a future. To your credit, you take it serious. You start taking acting classes.

• 15:27Speaker 02

  I don't know why. I had never wanted to be an actress. I never thought, oh, I want to be famous. I didn't play in theater at all. I didn't know anything about it. But I guess I just saw it as an opportunity. Anytime I've ever seen an opportunity in my life, I go for it and do my best. I have a very strong work ethic from my parents and growing up on a farm like that. So I just really throw myself into something. And my mom was supportive and said, oh, that could be interesting and fun. Let's do it. And she moved out here with me.

• 15:54Dax Shepard?

  That explained the separation's not in the book. And I'm like, how did dad handle that mom's moving to LA?

• 15:59Speaker 02

  They did a lot of back and forth. They were separated, but then he was unwell again. So she moved back to be with him and take care of him.

• 16:07Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so you get to LA. Is it exciting or terrifying?

• 16:11Speaker 02

  I didn't know enough to be terrified, honestly. I'm from a farm in Illinois and I lived in Phoenix for a couple of years. But I didn't know what I was getting into on any level. I had posters of Madonna in my bedroom when I was little and Michael Jackson and Mary Lou Retton.

• 16:26Dax Shepard?

  She was the queen.

• 16:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:28Dax Shepard?

  Remember her McDonald's commercial? She was in a Corvette.

• 16:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:31Speaker 02

  I didn't really know about fame or acting or the whole world of an actress or an actor. I just jumped in.

• 16:40Dax Shepard?

  And pretty quickly, you're on Growing Pains before you were 18, right? I mean, that was the show.

• 16:45Speaker 02

  I think that was my first or second job.

• 16:47Dax Shepard?

  Did you interface with Kirk Cameron?

• 16:49Speaker 02

  I did, in a very odd way. I was a girl in a car next to him and his car and with his buddies. I had one line in the whole show. Well, it was actually three words. Sticky, sticky, sticky. No idea why. That was my line.

• 17:03Dax Shepard?

  Hmm. Okay. Also, what a blessing as far as the first line you gotta memorize.

• 17:07Speaker 02

  Oh, true.

• 17:08Dax Shepard?

  Just the same, just one word. You gotta memorize one word.

• 17:10Speaker 02

  What if you're like, claw?

• 17:12Dax Shepard?

  And hopefully you remember it three times. Is it four times or is it two times? It's three times.

• 17:17Speaker 02

  Is it sticky or? Oh my God. Yeah. So that was my first. And then I did a Barbara Eden show where I played her daughter, which I was beside myself with excitement because she was Jeannie, you know?

• 17:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 17:29Speaker 02

  I grew up watching her on I Dream of Jeannie.

• 17:31Dax Shepard?

  Also, I would imagine you're drawn to like matriarchs. Your mom's a breadwinner. Then you meet this woman. She's a star of her own show. She's had this other success. I'd imagine it's appealing to see women being self-sufficient.

• 17:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was so inspired by my mom and her. They made life happen.

• 17:46Dax Shepard?

  Back to Kirk Cameron. There wasn't a girl in America that didn't think he was cute. Am I right?

• 17:51Speaker 02

  I don't think so. I wasn't even a fan of the show.

• 17:54Dax Shepard?

  They were ruled dead, the ones that didn't find him to be cute.

• 17:58Speaker 02

  I wasn't like a big Kirk Cameron fan or anything.

• 18:00Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you weren't?

• 18:01Speaker 02

  No, I watched The Brady Bunch, I Dream of Jeannie, Gilligan's Island.

• 18:04Dax Shepard?

  Green Acres?

• 18:05Speaker 02

  Green Acres, Beverly Hillbillies.

• 18:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, great programming.

• 18:08Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh.

• 18:09Dax Shepard?

  Also, I have no clue when those originally aired because when we were watching them, there were reruns in the daytime when you stayed home from school. I didn't know if they came from the 30s or the 60s or the 40s.

• 18:18Speaker 02

  No idea.

• 18:19Dax Shepard?

  Still don't know when.

• 18:20Speaker 02

  Probably should look that up.

• 18:21Dax Shepard?

  Beverly Hillbillies, it was in black and white.

• 18:23Speaker 02

  Uh huh. Until it wasn't.

• 18:25Dax Shepard?

  When the fuck was that show made? Because I was watching it in 82.

• 18:28Speaker 02

  It had to be in the 70s. I think The Brady Bunch was probably 70s.

• 18:31Dax Shepard?

  At least stylistically, it's a giveaway.

• 18:33Speaker 02

  That turned to color.

• 18:34Dax Shepard?

  It's full 70s, orange everything, shag carpet, the haircuts, the fucking bell bottoms.

• 18:39Speaker 02

  Outfits, yes.

• 18:39Dax Shepard?

  But these other, like a farm show, you can't set it with the style. The Beverly Hillbillies, everyone's dressed in tuxedos or silly hillbilly clothes. Yeah. Grapes of Wrath clothes.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  Or like Bewitched. That was probably the 50s, right?

• 18:52Dax Shepard?

  I think 60s, Darren looked very 60s mod, didn't he?

• 18:55Speaker 02

  Right. He did. Very mod. What's that show? Nowadays?

• 18:59Dax Shepard?

  Oh, Mad Men.

• 18:59Speaker 02

  Mad Men.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 19:01Dax Shepard?

  Also, weirdly, you did a show that Jason Priestley was on before 90210.

• 19:07Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 19:08Dax Shepard?

  What was that?

• 19:09Speaker 02

  We met on a set called Teen Angel Returns.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 19:13Dax Shepard?

  Say it again.

• 19:13Speaker 02

  Teen Angel.

• 19:15Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 19:15Speaker 02

  Returns. He was a teen angel.

• 19:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he was.

• 19:18Speaker 02

  Who would come down and help people.

• 19:20Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 19:21Speaker 02

  Usually girls. Oh.

• 19:23Dax Shepard?

  He's really beautiful.

• 19:25Speaker 02

  There was apparently a Teen Angel one.

• 19:28Speaker 01

  Right, because he returned.

• 19:30Speaker 02

  Okay. Yeah, so I met him on that and we instantly fell into this great rhythm of brother sister energy.

• 19:36Dax Shepard?

  He's older than you or a similar age?

• 19:38Speaker 02

  He's a little older.

• 19:39Dax Shepard?

  He was a little more seasoned, yeah?

• 19:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, star of the movie.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  He was a teeny movie.

• 19:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  God sakes.

• 19:45Speaker 02

  But he was just cool. He was just so nice. He's nicest guy on earth.

• 19:48Dax Shepard?

  Well, now here's where I want to back up. The book weirdly is an outgrowth of a podcast, which is weirdly outgrowth of rewatching.

• 19:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 19:56Dax Shepard?

  90210.

• 19:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:58Dax Shepard?

  Explain why you didn't watch it originally.

• 20:01Speaker 02

  Well, first of all, we were always working. 16, 18 hour days. You go home, you sleep, you get up at five and you come right back. Everyone was pretty much there every day.

• 20:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I imagine they weren't being helpful, like if they bring in all day long.

• 20:12Speaker 02

  And we had no say in anything. So we would just sit around and wait in our little dressing rooms or our little honey wagons. And I think they wanted us together all the time, which probably really helped the energy between us.

• 20:24Dax Shepard?

  Helped and hurt, I think, as we'll find out.

• 20:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:27Dax Shepard?

  A little bit of both.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  A little bit of both. So I never watched it.

• 20:29Dax Shepard?

  You didn't?

• 20:30Speaker 02

  I would see daily sometimes. That would be plenty for me. Like, I've never been one to love sitting down until recently, but I would just get too in my head, feel too insecure.

• 20:40Dax Shepard?

  Fraudulent?

• 20:41Speaker 02

  Yes, feel like, who, I don't know her, what is that?

• 20:45Dax Shepard?

  What am I doing? Am I making any choices?

• 20:47Speaker 02

  Is she good?

• 20:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:48Dax Shepard?

  So you sat down to watch it because you were gonna do a podcast, a rewatch podcast? My first curiosity is like, we all have this reel in our head of what things look like and felt like from our past. And it's very, very unique to be able to, like, if I could go back and watch myself at 18, I guarantee it wouldn't match that well with what my memory has corrupted it to be now. Were you having any kind of disjointed, like, oh my God, this is not?

• 21:16Speaker 02

  Well, it's weird because I, yeah, I was going back and looking at my younger self, but that wasn't me. That was a character in a world that was produced, you know? It's weird to watch, yes, that's me playing that character as a young girl, but also that girl had no idea who she was. It's hard for me to really identify. But when I did go back to watch the very first episode, it was really moving. Because I had so much sympathy for that young girl. Cause I could see past the character, past the scene to the core of the person.

• 21:48Dax Shepard?

  You were seeing the nervousness.

• 21:50Speaker 02

  The nervousness, the insecurity, the fear, just all the things.

• 21:55Dax Shepard?

  How about even physically, were you like, oh, I look different than I thought I looked at that time?

• 22:00Speaker 02

  I don't think so. I've had definitely a better appreciation for those years. I was like, wow, look at her go.

• 22:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:07Dax Shepard?

  Here's my example. I was always like, I gotta get in better shape, right? This is constantly, and then I'll see pictures of myself at like 19, I'm like, you were.

• 22:15Speaker 02

  You were great.

• 22:16Dax Shepard?

  Athletic.

• 22:17Speaker 02

  I know. You always worry about, oh, is my butt too big or what's in my body's not right?

• 22:23Speaker 01

  You can look back and say like, what a waste of energy that was, but I don't think you can escape it.

• 22:27Dax Shepard?

  And I wasted that.

• 22:28Speaker 02

  You have to feel that.

• 22:30Dax Shepard?

  Like even worse, you're like, fuck, I should have been enjoying.

• 22:34Speaker 02

  Strutting around in a banana hammock.

• 22:36Dax Shepard?

  I should have worn more Speedos.

• 22:39Dax Shepard?

  What were those board shorts doing? Similarly, I watched Parenthood with my kids. I hadn't seen it in probably eight years or something, or nine years. And when I watched it and they laughed the entire way through, I just cried the whole time. I just remember how much I loved Peter and May and all these people and Craig T. Nelson. I was just like, oh my God, I got to spend like the most precious time with these people. And I just was overwhelmed with what a sweet thing that was. And I just was so emotional for like the first three episodes. I couldn't get over. Were you having any of those swell-y feelings?

• 23:19Speaker 02

  Definitely, because what a great group of people. And we all took for granted that we got to live that life together. And also there's just this invisible string that connects us all.

• 23:29Dax Shepard?

  And two of the cast members have passed.

• 23:32Speaker 02

  At that point, one of them had passed, I believe.

• 23:34Dax Shepard?

  Shannon had?

• 23:35Speaker 02

  No.

• 23:36Dax Shepard?

  No, Luke had. Okay. So yeah, when you're seeing him, is it heartbreaking?

• 23:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was definitely very hard to watch. I couldn't really watch. But then I started to get really sucked in to the storyline.

• 23:50Dax Shepard?

  Oh, the plot was.

• 23:51Speaker 02

  And then all I wanted to see was Dylan.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:55Dax Shepard?

  I want to see him woo more girls.

• 23:58Speaker 02

  So good at it. I remember they wouldn't see me for it. I didn't have that much resume, you know?

• 24:03Dax Shepard?

  Angel Returns wasn't out.

• 24:04Speaker 02

  No, it wasn't enough, apparently. Throwing pains didn't get me in there.

• 24:08Dax Shepard?

  What was your three words?

• 24:09Speaker 02

  Sticky, sticky, sticky.

• 24:10Dax Shepard?

  What if you said that tape?

• 24:11Speaker 02

  You forgot.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  I know. You would not have booked it.

• 24:14Dax Shepard?

  What if you said that tape, though, and they put it in sticky, sticky, sticky, and that's the end of the reel?

• 24:18Speaker 01

  It's on the reel.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  We love her.

• 24:20Dax Shepard?

  I don't care. She's on the other side of the planet. Let's get her.

• 24:23Speaker 02

  No, but Mr. Showbiz, Randy, my manager, was friends with Tony. I can't remember his last name, but he was the head of Spelling Casting. So they were friends, you know, in business. And he called Tony and said, I heard you. You don't want to see her, but please, he was like, do this for me as a friend. So I went in to see him in his office. And then from his office, we went into Mr. Spelling's office.

• 24:46Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 24:46Speaker 02

  Where there were like, I don't know, it felt like 50 men, but it was probably 10, maybe eight, probably.

• 24:53Dax Shepard?

  And did you audition in front of him?

• 24:55Speaker 02

  And all those people, yeah.

• 24:56Dax Shepard?

  How nerve wracking was that?

• 24:58Speaker 02

  Extremely.

• 24:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. How do you suppose you did well enough? That seems overwhelming at that stage.

• 25:04Speaker 02

  I don't know. I was just so distracted. There was like bowls of cigarettes out.

• 25:09Dax Shepard?

  Oh, great.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  This is so old school.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  Yes. And then him and his pipe and them all just like staring. And I don't know, I just went into some sort of beast mode and did my scene.

• 25:19Dax Shepard?

  I wonder if you dissociated a bit.

• 25:21Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. That's something I like to do a lot.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  It can be helpful.

• 25:25Speaker 02

  Yes. But I remember leaving that building with Randy. We were walking back to our car and I heard someone say, hey, Jenny. And I turned around and it was Aaron hanging out the window. He went like that, like thumbs up.

• 25:40Dax Shepard?

  Think I didn't fall out the window.

• 25:41Speaker 02

  I know. It was like a big opening, too. And he's a tiny man.

• 25:45Dax Shepard?

  And this is back in the day, obviously, you went and did a pilot and then you got to wait to see if it gets picked up. It sounds like you're very naive. Did you have a sense of what was coming? Did you even consider like, what were the goals at the time? Like, oh, I hope they order 13 so I get paychecks.

• 25:58Speaker 02

  I had no understanding of the workings of the business.

• 26:02Dax Shepard?

  They explain this as a pilot and then-

• 26:04Speaker 02

  Now we'll wait and see. Okay, cool.

• 26:06Dax Shepard?

  Was it fun making the pilot? Like, what are your memories of that?

• 26:08Speaker 02

  Really fun because I just stepped into a whole new world of people my age. We were all there creating something together, which I had never really experienced and all doing our parts individually. And it's just really cool, really inspiring. Like, I thought this is a nice world to be a part of.

• 26:24Dax Shepard?

  And there were varying levels of experience between all of you. You say in the book, Jason Priestley was pretty immediately like the patriarch.

• 26:33Speaker 02

  He came from Sister Kate, which was a big show back then. And Shannon had worked on Heathers. She was on Little House on the Prairie, for God's sake. So she had a lot of experience.

• 26:42Dax Shepard?

  But had you seen Heathers? I was obsessed with Heathers.

• 26:44Speaker 02

  I had not seen Heathers.

• 26:45Dax Shepard?

  You were on Brady Bunch still.

• 26:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, I didn't, I wasn't exposed to much.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  But that's probably helpful because I think that would allow for more fraudulent feelings. If you've been like keeping up and you've seen Heathers and you like know what's going on, I think you could show up and be like, I don't belong here.

• 27:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:02Dax Shepard?

  But it's also a lot to ask a lot of 17, 18-year-old, 19-year-old, 20-year-olds to wield their experience ethically. So like, if I were Shannon, I might think I'm too good for this. Do people come with attitudes?

• 27:14Speaker 02

  The people that had experience definitely felt as if they knew what they were doing a lot more. I did feel green. I felt lucky to be there. I did feel probably less than or inferior to some of the people on the cast, just innately.

• 27:30Dax Shepard?

  But you were good at learning how to be the baby of a scenario. Like, were you able to own that and let them take care of you?

• 27:36Speaker 02

  Um, I don't feel like there was a lot of taking care of. It was kind of like man for himself.

• 27:41Speaker 01

  It was dog eat dog.

• 27:43Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  That's what I was curious about, like the dynamics between all the people.

• 27:47Dax Shepard?

  It's a lot of attention to share when you're that age.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's so many eyes on that show and people's- Favorites and so much going on.

• 27:56Speaker 02

  It got really difficult as the show went on after the first season. They started really sort of taking my character and Shannon's character and hitting them against one another in storyline. And then that would in turn turn the media and in turn turn the audience. And so that's when the whole girl against girl really became apparent that that's what we're doing here.

• 28:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:19Dax Shepard?

  They honed the sword on that. And then when Desperate Housewives came along, they were like, we know how to do this.

• 28:25Speaker 01

  Make them all fight all the time.

• 28:27Dax Shepard?

  Sometimes though, even though it's not based in anything, once it takes on a life of its own, it can start impacting the real dynamic between you two, no?

• 28:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, unfortunately, we were young. I didn't know how to deal with that. And I thought it was real and I'm emoting. And then the camera cuts and it's a little odd because we just had a fight or some sort of really ugly words to one another. There was no internet then. It would have been a lot worse.

• 28:51Dax Shepard?

  Can you imagine?

• 28:53Speaker 02

  But it was so supported by the continued writing and then the fans, because they used to send us out a lot. They used to send me out. I don't know if Shannon did a lot, but I would go out, the guys would go out a lot and do signings. Car shows, remember the days when they would send you to a car show to sign autographs?

• 29:09Dax Shepard?

  Sure, sure.

• 29:10Speaker 02

  I was stoked because I got a free car out of one of those.

• 29:12Dax Shepard?

  You did?

• 29:12Speaker 02

  I did.

• 29:13Dax Shepard?

  What did you get?

• 29:14Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. It was a gorgeous, sparkly, emerald green Corvette.

• 29:18Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 29:19Dax Shepard?

  No, you didn't.

• 29:20Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 29:21Dax Shepard?

  They gave you a Corvette?

• 29:22Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 29:23Dax Shepard?

  I know that color, that green. This would have been like a 92 Corvette or something. Mm hmm.

• 29:31Dax Shepard?

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. We are supported by HP. My mental to do list is already full. Uh, fix something around the house, refill prescriptions, remember to text someone back, keep track of a million little life things. The last thing I want on that list is, oh, don't forget printer ink.

• 29:52Speaker 01

  No, it's horrible.

• 29:52Dax Shepard?

  It's the bane of everyone's existence. What if you could just take that off your list for years?

• 29:58Speaker 01

  The dream.

• 29:59Dax Shepard?

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• 30:44Dax Shepard?

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• 31:16Speaker 03

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• 31:52Dax Shepard?

  I want to attempt to explain the size of Beverly Hills 90210. I was saying to my kids, they often ask me who I'm interviewing, or maybe they heard me say to my wife, I was interviewing you. My wife goes like, oh, 90210, you guys was so big, you can't imagine K-pop then plus some. So I looked up all the numbers and to put it in Reference, you guys maintained an 11 share for most of the 10 years, right? So currently the NFL, which is the biggest show on television by a factor of five, gets like a two eight, two a three, two. Grey's Anatomy gets a point four.

• 32:31Speaker 01

  That's wild.

• 32:33Dax Shepard?

  Yes, you guys were got an 11. You had 20 million viewers a week for like five of the 10 years.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 32:41Dax Shepard?

  There's no real comp in modern television.

• 32:43Speaker 01

  No, it doesn't work that way anymore.

• 32:45Dax Shepard?

  So it's like, when you're listening, you kind of got to imagine, you know, it's in the Taylor Swift era. It's like a cultural phenomenon.

• 32:52Speaker 01

  That also lasted way beyond it. So like I watched it.

• 32:55Speaker 02

  You watched it? Well, how over you. Were you not supposed to be watching it?

• 32:59Speaker 01

  But I mean, I must.

• 32:59Dax Shepard?

  Came out when she was three.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  I watched reruns.

• 33:02Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  So that's what I mean. Like it's still held its value. My generation watched it.

• 33:07Speaker 02

  Cause your mom probably watched it.

• 33:08Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 33:09Speaker 02

  And then, I hear that all the time.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:12Speaker 02

  It's my mom's favorite show.

• 33:13Dax Shepard?

  I was obsessed with it. I loved it. Oh my God, I was in Detroit, right? It came out when I would have been 15. It was such a glitzy world. The poor kids driving a 65 Mustang convertible. Jason Priestley, Dylan's driving a fucking convertible Porsche.

• 33:32Speaker 01

  Collector Edition, yeah.

• 33:34Dax Shepard?

  The mansions, everyone's hot.

• 33:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:37Dax Shepard?

  The dudes are cool. Like it was such wish fulfillment.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  So many bathing suits.

• 33:41Dax Shepard?

  Yes. If you're like in any place other than California, it's so exciting.

• 33:47Speaker 01

  Because you didn't have access to knowing what any of that world looked like.

• 33:49Dax Shepard?

  Exactly. There's no Instagram. You're not seeing other people live this life. If you don't see it on TV or you don't take a vacation there, you don't see it. So your options were Baywatch and then this show to understand maybe what California, this dream place was like. And I was so captivated. I remember on a trip to LA when I was 20 years old, Erin and I wanted to like see what the Viper Room was and all of a sudden coming out of the Viper Room was Amber Thiessen at peak 90210 things. And then she booted in the parking lot. Some guy from the show screamed. To give them some privacy, but we don't care. Like I now like I you have compassion for people who treat me terribly. I'm like, and then these people, they're on TV. What's going on in this parking lot? I couldn't believe how exciting it was.

• 34:35Dax Shepard?

  So I was part of the problem for sure.

• 34:37Speaker 02

  People tell me I moved to America because of your show, because they saw what they wanted to live and they're like, I'm going there.

• 34:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, they thought all of America was that.

• 34:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so I didn't look up the international numbers, but I bet they're absolutely shocking because I went on a URL pass when I was 19 and I was at hostels and they played Baywatch in 90210. So it was a hugely international show too, right?

• 34:59Speaker 02

  It was, we had so many different languages dubbed into our mouths.

• 35:03Dax Shepard?

  Yes. Okay, so after the first year, how are you adjusting? You're clearly getting recognized everywhere you go. How is that experience?

• 35:14Speaker 02

  They sent me out on a couple of events.

• 35:16Dax Shepard?

  Talk about the zoo one with you and Luke.

• 35:18Speaker 02

  There were just thousands of people. We definitely were animals in a zoo. That's what we felt like. And they had us in, I think it was the bird enclosure, to get to the signing area where they had set it up. And we went and it was impossible because it was dangerous. The kids were pushing and shoving and screaming and fainting.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 35:36Dax Shepard?

  There were lots of maybes at these signings that had to get canceled. So many of them got canceled.

• 35:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:41Dax Shepard?

  Like 10,000 people showed up at one mall.

• 35:43Speaker 02

  Terrifying because you're on those little riser things they put you up on and like a folding table and it's just shaking and rocking. People are sweating and crying and passing out. And like literally the medics are carrying people off.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Yeah, remember when people would faint because of hotness? Because of looking at someone hot? That's like done.

• 36:02Dax Shepard?

  No, I see people at concerts dropping out still.

• 36:05Speaker 01

  That's because they're on drugs.

• 36:06Dax Shepard?

  Rock stars can still garner that, but not actors.

• 36:09Speaker 02

  Fans of the original show meet us, they don't know how to handle it.

• 36:13Dax Shepard?

  Well, yeah, from your point of view, if you didn't know the context and you're just looking out at the sea of people, you could only conclude there is a natural disaster happening outside. Really, you'd have to think there was like a, a earthquake happening or something.

• 36:25Speaker 02

  It was pandemonium. And after that started happening, I started to develop agoraphobia. Like I never left my house.

• 36:31Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, how could you?

• 36:33Speaker 02

  I wanted to go to the mall. I wanted to do things that

• 36:35Dax Shepard?

  Hit the food court Taco Bell.

• 36:36Speaker 02

  Young people were doing.

• 36:39Speaker 02

  But I just didn't. I got scared.

• 36:41Dax Shepard?

  And then also, which could help or hurt you. So your father's heart condition gets worse. And you get a place in the San Diego Valley, a ranch.

• 36:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, after a few years on the show, I got a ranch there.

• 36:55Dax Shepard?

  And you move them to the ranch.

• 36:57Speaker 02

  They came from Arizona, they moved.

• 36:59Dax Shepard?

  So now, do they get back together for this?

• 37:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, they were back together. Since my mom had gone back and she was taking care of him, they had found this new empty nester rhythm and it was working for them and they seemed very happy. And then I uprooted them and said, I need you. I need something to keep me grounded and feeling like I know anything. And so they moved two hours north and then I would go there all the time. Instead of going out partying, I would go be with my parents.

• 37:25Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 37:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so you said you kind of missed all the weekend debauchery that would happen with the other cast members.

• 37:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:31Dax Shepard?

  The upside of that is like you didn't get in any trouble, really. But would you get to work on Monday? Did you not have FOMO? Would you be trying to find out like, oh, who did what?

• 37:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think there was internal FOMO that I really didn't even know what that was, but I felt left out. But inside rationalizing it, like, I don't want that, so it's okay. And that sounds like too much for me. I didn't know how to handle more.

• 37:54Speaker 01

  That's wise at that age.

• 37:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was just like instinctual, I think, from where I came from.

• 38:00Dax Shepard?

  But even though it's a contradiction, I can see it being very natural, which is like, you've removed yourself from that. And then also, you could feel like they're not including you.

• 38:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 38:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  They're not including you, or you're not cool.

• 38:10Dax Shepard?

  Did you have those feelings, like, oh, they're cool and I'm not good for this?

• 38:13Speaker 02

  It was hard because I would hear about what happened on the weekends and I would even see it in the press.

• 38:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:20Speaker 02

  And I would think, wow, I wonder what that's like. But also, I don't want that. That seems scary. I don't want to lose myself into that world.

• 38:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, reading between the lines a bit from your book, you don't explicitly say, but it sounds like you are in desperate need of some mooring to anchor to something. It's obvious from your actions that you felt like you were sucked up into a tornado.

• 38:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:45Dax Shepard?

  Because you get married really young.

• 38:48Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 38:48Dax Shepard?

  You meet a drummer. Is he on the show? How do you meet the drummer?

• 38:51Speaker 02

  It was through a friend that invited me to see his band. And I went and he was the drummer and we just sort of hit it off. And yeah, we got married. I don't even know how that happened.

• 39:03Dax Shepard?

  Like how quickly after meeting?

• 39:04Speaker 02

  I think I was 21. If my daughter came to me and said, I'm 21, I'm getting married. I'd be like, no, you're not.

• 39:10Speaker 01

  It was a different time a little bit. People got married younger, I think, a little bit then.

• 39:14Dax Shepard?

  The whole world was still going, why would this 21 year old on this show be getting married?

• 39:18Speaker 02

  In retrospect, he was a big guy. He had the presence of my father, who I thought was gonna die any minute. I was trying to replace that sort of tethering, that sort of.

• 39:27Dax Shepard?

  You're looking for stability. He embodies physical stability.

• 39:31Speaker 02

  Right.

• 39:32Dax Shepard?

  Now, here's the part you don't dig super deep into, but I'm curious. So he moves into your house. You build a recording studio for him. You buy him Harleys. There's something in there.

• 39:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. What do we think is in there?

• 39:46Speaker 02

  I am very giving. I like to make people happy. I like to make money so that I can make other people happy, or my family. I like to give things. My dad a truck and bought the ranch for them to live on. Like I help other family members. I feel like I am given this position to make money for other people's benefit a lot of the time.

• 40:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but it's almost impossible, and especially when you're young, to proceed that way and not be resentful at the people that you're doing all this for. Cause you're like, I'm doing all this for you. And you're drunk and don't give a shit. Like, was there not also some resentment?

• 40:24Speaker 02

  No, it wasn't resentment. It was sadness. Even that wasn't enough for you to not go and drink all night with your friends? Or why would you want to do that when I'm here?

• 40:35Speaker 01

  I battle some of that too. Like if I'm being very generous, I have to think, am I doing this so that? They can't leave me.

• 40:44Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 40:45Dax Shepard?

  That's what I'm circling.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  Look at what I've done. You know, I've invested in you or I've given you so much. You can't leave me and then they do, or they go do their own thing and then you feel like really hurt.

• 40:58Speaker 02

  In my mind, it never felt like I'm investing in you. I'm doing this so that you won't leave me. But that was probably the under.

• 41:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:05Speaker 02

  None of it's conscious. At the end of that relationship, when it was falling apart and I was never like, look at all I've given you and you still. I never thought that way, but I think now as a woman who really understands how hard it is to make a living, to support your family and how hard you have to work. I do have more of a connection with, I work really hard and I feel like if you want to be in my family, it has to be a team effort. We have to all work together to make this work in whatever capacity we're able to. But back then I didn't know anything about that.

• 41:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:38Dax Shepard?

  Well, at the risk of really opening up a wound, because you have the cute appeal, that also wears off for all people because you wanted more of a substantive attraction to you. Do you think also there was some reality of like, yeah, he thought you were the cutest thing in the world. And then six months later, that wasn't as exciting and there's no second gear for this relationship.

• 42:02Speaker 02

  Yes, my life maintained its ridiculous schedule and having no real life of my own outside of work because I had to get up so early every day and be there so long. I think I wasn't as fun as he thought I would be.

• 42:15Dax Shepard?

  As advertised?

• 42:16Speaker 02

  Right. Or as one would assume.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  If you're watching this show, you have an idea about all of you guys. And I bet you're like, I'm a person. I'm not that girl.

• 42:27Speaker 02

  And by nature, I'm not a person that's walking around with rainbows flowing out of my ass. I was born blue and I don't know if a lot of people know what that means, but just not rainbowey. Felt more thoughtful, introverted.

• 42:38Dax Shepard?

  Tiny bit melancholy?

• 42:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, tiny bit blue. You know, my dad would always say, are you feeling blue? And I would say, yeah, I don't know why I was a kid. And then he would take me for ice creams. So then I figured out, oh, that's a reward for feeling blue. So I must've reinforced it, but I'm not like a yippity skippity person all the time.

• 42:56Dax Shepard?

  If you're searching for stability, even this shitty version of stability is going to be more stable than when you pull the plug and you're back to the drawing board. I can imagine you measuring those two things and feeling like, well, it's better than zero stability, which will be the outcome.

• 43:11Speaker 02

  I think I was just blindly brave at that point. Like, I didn't know what that would feel like, so I just was able to do it. So we separated and then, of course, I met somebody during that separation. And that made it a lot easier. It always makes it easier when there's someone else.

• 43:25Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  So then I finalized the divorce and started a relationship with my second husband.

• 43:31Dax Shepard?

  Okay, let's talk about Luke for a second, because he's in the book. You describe basically him shining his light on you and how powerful that was.

• 43:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, that light, I thought I was the only one that felt it. I really did. I was such a sucker.

• 43:46Speaker 01

  No, that's part of that. That's part of that personality.

• 43:49Speaker 02

  Right, but I came to soon realize that he shined that same light on everyone. And that was just the nature of Luke, why people gravitated towards him and loved him. And they felt so seen and appreciated by him.

• 44:03Dax Shepard?

  But you admit in the book, you were pretty in love with him.

• 44:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was definitely my first real love.

• 44:09Dax Shepard?

  What do you think kept it from escalating?

• 44:12Speaker 02

  Probably he kept it from escalating because he had a real strong moral compass at the same time. He loved me, but he didn't want to ruin me. And I think that he knew if we got involved, it would ruin me.

• 44:29Dax Shepard?

  He knew he wasn't going to be able to commit to you.

• 44:31Speaker 02

  I don't think under those circumstances, no.

• 44:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, when I was reading it, I gotta be honest, I felt a little maybe defensive of him. He's just this person moving through life and the way he is, people are falling in love with. It's not disingenuous of him that he interacted with you, just the way he interacts.

• 44:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it was a little more than that.

• 44:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm sure.

• 44:53Speaker 02

  In order to maintain that chemistry for the show, for the cameras, and he liked to have chemistry with whoever he worked with. So he would put a lot of effort into it. As naive as I was, I thought that that was him loving me. I felt like he really valued me. And I didn't see him doing that with everyone else until later.

• 45:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, this sounds terribly painful. You had to watch then, over the next few years. Different co-stars come in and out and him create that with everyone.

• 45:24Speaker 02

  Right. Whether I was mistaken and just stupid, I felt that we had something really special. And I have every belief that we did have something special because we were friends all our lives after that. I think anybody that was around us probably could tell.

• 45:42Dax Shepard?

  That's a blessing. He didn't go all the way because that allowed you to stay friends, I'd imagine, yeah.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was very conflicted with my friendship after that point because I guess I was heartbroken, honestly.

• 45:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you felt betrayed, I assume, to some degree, maybe?

• 46:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, it really instilled in me even more of a feeling of you can't trust people.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  And you can't trust yourself.

• 46:08Speaker 02

  You can't trust yourself because look what you've fallen for. I don't know. I mean, if he had, we would have probably definitely dated. We never really dated. We were always at work together, but it was always a very strong flirtation.

• 46:20Dax Shepard?

  And you had to kiss in scenes.

• 46:22Speaker 02

  We were constantly making out.

• 46:23Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God, was that not heaven?

• 46:26Speaker 02

  It was so layered.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:28Speaker 02

  I wasn't experienced at that point with making out with guys on camera and knowing that that didn't translate into real life at all. And then also being like, of course, stupid, that's not real, you're acting. But it felt real. And now I'm very clear because of those learnings of getting it blurry. It's very easy for me to have chemistry in one second with somebody and then just the next second be normal.

• 46:52Dax Shepard?

  Dead to them.

• 46:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:54Dax Shepard?

  What was your name?

• 46:55Speaker 02

  It's easy for me to define now.

• 46:57Dax Shepard?

  Boundaries, I guess that's what they're called.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, you learn those.

• 47:00Dax Shepard?

  Now, people left the show and I'm curious what that did to the little microcosm of the world. Like Shannon left after the fourth season. I did get to read a little bit about things that were going on, which is she was. Perpetually late, didn't care when she was late. They kinda wanted to get rid of her. She wanted to leave, but then she had second thoughts. She cut her hair in the middle of an episode.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 47:25Dax Shepard?

  That was the final straw.

• 47:26Speaker 02

  I think there was some decisions just to be like, fuck you, I can do what I want. And I was watching from the sidelines going, wow, she really can do whatever she wants.

• 47:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:37Speaker 02

  Like, that's so cool.

• 47:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, was it cooler? Were you trying to figure out, like, what's her problem with all this?

• 47:43Speaker 02

  As a fellow Aries, there's that part of me with horns that understands it. Because we don't like to be told what to do or what we can and can't do. And sometimes in the face of being told what we can't do, we're like, oh, really?

• 47:57Dax Shepard?

  Watch me.

• 47:58Speaker 02

  Watch me. And being both incredibly independent women from such a very young age, she also had a dad with heart problems and she supported her family and took care of her family. They were her first priority at all times. And there was a lot going on for her that no one knew about. There were all the struggles of trying to figure out how to have healthy relationships and be in her position. Not easy, very difficult to navigate. That confusion, I think, caused some defiance or anger naturally, trying to control some things.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  Anything you can.

• 48:31Speaker 02

  So I think, yeah, when she was late, it was annoying for everyone. We were all there on time, ready when we were supposed to be ready and the crew was waiting. That was hard to work with. And I didn't know then a lot of what she was going through until we became women and discussed it more openly. I heard her saying, like, people didn't really understand what I was going through at the time. And I never really considered that at that young age. But I did have this sort of respect for her, like, an unknown, non-understood respect for her.

• 49:01Speaker 01

  Also, I mean, you guys are young and you're the stars. I can imagine being young and a star and like, you're not telling me, I'm the reason this show works. We're the reason this show works, not you telling me what to do. Like, I could see that getting very out of hand.

• 49:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  With these stars of the biggest show ever.

• 49:21Dax Shepard?

  And it sounds like they were like, oh, these are young because we can kinda... Have them here nonstop. That's what's crazy that you're on ensemble and you worked as much as you did. That's generally the gift of an ensemble. The other thing that blew my mind is I didn't realize you guys did thirty two episodes a year. I don't think like now we marvel at shows that did twenty four, but you guys did thirty two. How many months a year were you shooting the show?

• 49:43Speaker 02

  We had two and a half months off in the summer and then maybe a monthish off at Christmas. So it was a lot. We were there a lot.

• 49:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 49:51Speaker 02

  I always joke and say it was like we were kept in jail because it was this isolated sound studio in Van Nuys, California, which was just industry. It's not nice.

• 50:02Dax Shepard?

  It's like a commercial park, right?

• 50:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's like car crushing on one side and a porn studio on the other side of our stages. People didn't go there. That's what they wanted. And we were inside this building that they had transformed into a sound studio, even though you could hear every airplane going into Van Nuys Airport all day long. Never held from planes more in my life. I felt so sequestered, so confined.

• 50:23Dax Shepard?

  You meet your second husband and then you guys have your first daughter pretty quick, ninety seven?

• 50:30Speaker 02

  Yep, she was born in ninety seven. That was a surprise.

• 50:33Dax Shepard?

  That makes sense because you get married in oh one?

• 50:36Speaker 02

  Yes, we were not ready. We, I say we, we were not ready to get married yet. I think the analogy was our boat wasn't strong enough to survive the ocean. So I waited for the boat to get stronger, but I had a baby. I was a brand new mom. I was so focused on keeping the baby alive.

• 50:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you're twenty five?

• 50:55Speaker 02

  Twenty four, I think.

• 50:57Dax Shepard?

  Everyone else is like out at the Viper Room throwing up in the parking lot. Dax Shepard and Aaron Weekly are gawking at them, but you're raising a baby. There's challenges, but I would also imagine this is finally the tether you're probably looking for in life, right? Where you have an identity that's outside of this other quite confusing identity.

• 51:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I felt like this was my purpose. I didn't know my purpose within that world of acting, the show, all of that fame, but I knew my purpose immediately when I had a baby.

• 51:26Dax Shepard?

  And what do you think that inoculated you against the other cast members were dealing with that you were relieved of?

• 51:33Speaker 02

  Just the tabloids. I was exhausted in a different way, but not from partyings, which is a very different kind of exhaustion.

• 51:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 51:40Speaker 02

  I think mostly I was not focused on myself any longer. I always think that having kids saved my life. Having Luca, my first daughter, saved my life because I could have seen me going into this self-important swirl of, you know, a spiral where all you think about is yourself and your business and your worth and all that stuff. And I didn't think about that anymore.

• 52:01Dax Shepard?

  I do think that's the huge gift, if you're in this business, that kids give you is they don't give a shit about whether or not your movie opened.

• 52:08Speaker 02

  They don't care.

• 52:09Dax Shepard?

  They're not gonna be sympathetic to that.

• 52:10Speaker 02

  They just want their mac and cheese.

• 52:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you gotta get up and do whatever. You gotta go to Travel Town and take them to see the trains, whether the movie opened or not.

• 52:17Speaker 02

  Right.

• 52:17Dax Shepard?

  Which is good for you.

• 52:18Speaker 02

  As an actor, people assume that we're very self-absorbed, and we are very self-absorbed to a certain degree.

• 52:25Dax Shepard?

  Well, it requires you to concentrate on getting it and maintaining it. It becomes your entire, it's all you see.

• 52:32Speaker 02

  I always said, I'm the CEO of me. I have to run my business. This is my business, I guess. Okay.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  Therefore, you have to think about you.

• 52:39Speaker 02

  You have to think about you a lot. I get so fucking bored with myself and irritated that I'm having to like, think about me. I'm doing it a lot more now in my life than I ever have because my kids are out of the house. So I'm able to focus on things that I need to focus on a little bit more or want to focus on. But it was an interesting time. I remember doing one scene, I felt very different. And Gabrielle had had a baby, I think, a year or two before me on the show, but then she ended up leaving and she was older than all of us.

• 53:08Dax Shepard?

  She was like 36 or something.

• 53:09Speaker 02

  I don't think she was 36.

• 53:11Speaker 01

  Everyone always said, they're like, she was so old.

• 53:14Speaker 02

  I don't think she was quite thirty.

• 53:15Dax Shepard?

  Rob, look up how old she was. I'm almost certain she was thirty-six at some point on that.

• 53:20Speaker 02

  Maybe at some point, yeah, yeah.

• 53:22Dax Shepard?

  I want to say for the record, she's still a babe. I thought she was a smoke shell.

• 53:25Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 53:25Dax Shepard?

  I didn't care. She was thirty-six.

• 53:26Speaker 02

  Was a smart, hot one.

• 53:27Dax Shepard?

  But I do remember going, like, when you find that out, it's very exciting gossip.

• 53:30Speaker 02

  Right, because you don't think it when you're watching it.

• 53:33Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 53:33Speaker 02

  But we knew it on set. Like, she had, you know, an older, different priorities. But then I had a baby and I was like, I'm still in the group. I gotta go milk my boobs in the trailer.

• 53:44Dax Shepard?

  Oh, did they shoot around that? You were clearly pregnant.

• 53:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was pregnant in season nine. I don't remember.

• 53:51Dax Shepard?

  It would have been seven, 90 to 2000.

• 53:53Speaker 02

  I just watched it and I can't remember.

• 53:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 53:55Speaker 02

  Season seven.

• 53:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 53:56Speaker 02

  And we hit it. We called it Bob. I can remember when Jason, he was doing some directing at that phase of the show and he would be like, how are we going to hide Bob in this? And they'd just give me like something to carry or giant clothes.

• 54:08Dax Shepard?

  Now, when the show ended, did you feel relief or did you have a moment of, well, I just had security for a decade. At that point, a third of your life, you had had major financial security. Were you at all panicked after that first year?

• 54:23Speaker 02

  You know, when you get that kind of financial security so young, you don't really think about money.

• 54:28Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Well, that's great to hear.

• 54:30Speaker 02

  I mean, you don't really think about it coming and going. You just have it and then you spend it and then you get it and then you spend it. It seems so normal, but then when you're like, wait.

• 54:39Dax Shepard?

  You're watching it just go down.

• 54:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. The money's not coming in anymore, but I'm still spending it. It was really scary. I didn't think I would have such an adjustment, but we all went through it. I didn't know when to go to the bathroom. You were led around by a leash, basically, when you're an actor. They like say, go to the bathroom and then come out. We'll go to the thing and then here's your lunch and in 10 minutes I'll come back to get you.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:01Speaker 02

  Here's what you wear. Here's what you say. Here's your makeup look.

• 55:05Dax Shepard?

  They talk about the depression that follows most professional athletes and people think wrongly it's about the fame and money, but it's always about they lost their community. They were on a team and then they lost their routine. Everything's scheduled for an athlete and all of a sudden they're in the world with no schedule and no community.

• 55:21Speaker 02

  It's like willy nilly. You're like, what do I do?

• 55:24Speaker 01

  Overwhelming.

• 55:24Speaker 02

  Should I eat now? Am I hungry? I don't even know.

• 55:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:27Dax Shepard?

  When are they putting out lunch?

• 55:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. Why is there no craft service in my kitchen?

• 55:33Dax Shepard?

  So when you got What I Like About You, that was a show you then did for four years? Four seasons?

• 55:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, four seasons. I was very lucky. I was so happy to get that show because there's a huge stigma that followed all of us as actors. People weren't really willing to see us do other things. I really wanted to do a comedy. I had no idea how to do a comedy because I was always doing so much drama on 90210. But I got called in by Will Calhoun, who was one of the head executives of Friends and he was doing A new show with Amanda Bynes and another guy was also executive producing it. I selectively forgotten his name at the moment. He was part of that big scandal.

• 56:13Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 56:13Speaker 02

  Dan Schneider.

• 56:15Dax Shepard?

  Oh, oh, oh, right, right, right.

• 56:17Speaker 02

  He was the other producer. He was kind of the Amanda side of it because it was starring myself and Amanda Bynes.

• 56:23Dax Shepard?

  She was coming from Disney on a show.

• 56:24Speaker 02

  She had worked with him a lot on The Amanda Show and all the things. So he had hooked his swag into her.

• 56:30Dax Shepard?

  Were you getting bad vibes?

• 56:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was to the point where I said to Will, like, I would rather just communicate solely with you. I trust you. I think that you have my best interests in mind and I don't feel that way with your partner. So I'd rather just be with you. And he was like, no problem.

• 56:48Speaker 01

  And did you see Amanda getting like, kind of destroyed by him?

• 56:54Speaker 02

  Not specifically him. There were a lot of problems in this ecosystem of her.

• 57:01Dax Shepard?

  How old was she and how old were you at that time?

• 57:03Speaker 02

  When we did the pilot, I had just turned 30 and she had just turned 16. We have the same birthday.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  Oh, that's sweet.

• 57:10Dax Shepard?

  So did you feel like you were perfectly equipped to help her navigate this since you did it so young? You did not?

• 57:17Speaker 02

  No, no, no. And also I didn't know how to be around a teenage girl. She taught me so much. I was kind of afraid of teenagers because everyone's like, oh, you've got a kid and wait till they're a teenager. They're going to be a nightmare.

• 57:28Dax Shepard?

  People love to say that.

• 57:28Speaker 02

  Right. They love to say that.

• 57:29Dax Shepard?

  That's their favorite thing to say.

• 57:30Speaker 02

  It is so not true.

• 57:31Dax Shepard?

  If people go, you have kids? I go, yeah, I have two girls. Oh, wait till they're teenagers. And I want to go, go fuck yourself.

• 57:35Speaker 02

  Right. You don't know. I've just told that to someone recently. They were asking like advice for teenage girls. And I said, don't accept that narrative.

• 57:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 57:44Speaker 02

  Accept it. This is how I want it to be with my kids.

• 57:46Dax Shepard?

  What's really going on that I have compassion for? Because when I've gotten little bouts of it is like, they're dealing with heartbreak. You have this little person who thinks you're the greatest. And then they must go through a phase where they don't think you're that cool. And you're like, wait, but what happened? We're best friends. I understand they're dealing with heartbreak.

• 58:03Speaker 01

  It is sad.

• 58:04Dax Shepard?

  It's just not the thing to tell new parents constantly.

• 58:08Speaker 02

  No, you're setting them up for failure.

• 58:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, because also what do you? Going to do about, there's no solution in that. Like, what's the point?

• 58:15Speaker 02

  Just scaring people.

• 58:16Speaker 01

  You're fucked.

• 58:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 58:18Dax Shepard?

  You're right. It becomes a little bit of a self fulfilling prophecy because when there's a blip of it, you're like, well, here we go.

• 58:23Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 58:23Dax Shepard?

  This is what everyone's saying.

• 58:24Speaker 02

  This is what they mean.

• 58:24Dax Shepard?

  Like, I think I even had that. And I was like, oh, no, that passed. That was like a month.

• 58:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:28Dax Shepard?

  And now everything's honky dory.

• 58:29Speaker 01

  You got lucky. I was very lucky.

• 58:31Dax Shepard?

  Well, I'm like, I never went through that with my mom. I was always delightful to her.

• 58:36Speaker 02

  I wasn't either. I was bad. But I was always kind of bad.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  You were a baddie.

• 58:40Speaker 02

  I could lie like nobody's business.

• 58:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, you were acting.

• 58:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess I was meant to be an actress.

• 58:45Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 58:46Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so you guys proceed to have three daughters from 97 till, I don't know when your last baby was born.

• 58:54Speaker 02

  She was born in 2006.

• 58:56Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so nine years of getting pregnant every few years and then having a baby. The relationship's not in a great state. Was it something that had precipitously fallen? Or was it doomed and you were getting through it for a long period of it? Or when did it start to feel untenable?

• 59:15Speaker 02

  Early. My view of it was that he wasn't ready to become a father at 21, obviously.

• 59:22Dax Shepard?

  Not a ton of dudes are.

• 59:23Speaker 02

  Nope. And he didn't know who he was yet. I didn't know who I was yet.

• 59:28Dax Shepard?

  He's trying to create a career. He's an actor.

• 59:31Speaker 02

  He wants to be an actor and he's doing the work. It's hard to even imagine, but I feel now as if, and this is no shade, no blame, nothing. I'm kind of a realist. Like, I don't think he was ever truly in love with me, the kind of love that it takes to be married, to sustain a long-term relationship.

• 59:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, to have to roll up your sleeves and do all the terrible work that's required.

• 59:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was focused on other things, his career, and I was focused on the kids and my career, trying to do both. And now, if I could go back, the writing was kind of on the wall. For some reason, my now husband, Dave, doesn't understand, well, why'd you keep having kids with them?

• 1:00:09Dax Shepard?

  Because you kept having sex.

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  Well, yeah.

• 1:00:11Dax Shepard?

  To answer that.

• 1:00:12Speaker 02

  It happens when you're married and you have sex.

• 1:00:15Speaker 01

  Well, also, it sounds like nothing was that bad. Like, nothing was so bad that you had to be like, we really can't keep going. Is that right?

• 1:00:25Speaker 02

  It wasn't. We functioned and we loved being a family. We loved our daughter so much and we would do a lot of fun things and it just felt normal. But I didn't try to make it this way. It just showed up as that white picket fence story. All of a sudden, you're like, wow, okay, this is what I'm doing. And then it didn't have what it needed to sustain.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  That's hard to leave.

• 1:00:50Speaker 04

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 1:01:02Dax Shepard?

  Also, there's an illusion of the equation of A equals B and B equals C, A equals C. Like, you both love these girls so much and you can talk about that love. And it's a creation of you two. And that can feel maybe like that's compensating for the love. It's actually not going in that direction.

• 1:01:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:01:22Dax Shepard?

  It's confusing, I'd imagine. Love has created this thing that we love so much.

• 1:01:26Speaker 02

  Right. So we must love each other.

• 1:01:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:28Dax Shepard?

  But we don't.

• 1:01:29Speaker 02

  I guess we didn't.

• 1:01:31Dax Shepard?

  Like, it's interesting because you focused, I think, in the book that, yeah, he wasn't in love with you. But are you sure you were in love with him?

• 1:01:39Speaker 02

  I don't know. In the beginning, we were mad about each other for, I think it was six months. Then we got pregnant and then it just got real complicated.

• 1:01:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's pretty easy to be super into someone for six months. Most beginnings of relationships are pretty hot and heavy.

• 1:01:51Speaker 02

  Maybe even longer than six months. But things got real, real fast. I've talked about it before, like, I feel like my life has just swept me. You know, it's been a constant, like, flow, flow, things happening, coming to me, dealing with it, surviving it. Then the next thing comes. I never had any point where I was like, this is what I want. This is what I'm going to work hard on getting. Things just happened and I was constantly just trying to tread water to figure it out.

• 1:02:17Dax Shepard?

  It sounds like from 1990 to 2012, you were reacting to whatever new scenario arose. So here's this show. I'm going to react and try to figure out how to respond. I'm pregnant, I'm a new mom. Oh, my God, there's two more. Oh, this marriage isn't what I had hoped. You think at some point, the way to salvage all this is all of us to move up to San Diego, to the ranch. And then let's do a reality show for CMT was called Little Bit Country.

• 1:02:44Speaker 02

  Right. Well, I had wanted to move up to the ranch, A, to be closer to my family, my mom and dad. When my second daughter was five, my dad died. I'm not a good griever. I just go hard, go deep, go full in, and I have to get through it slowly. I have to go really feel the feelings. I remember on his deathbed, we were going through separation and my dad was losing oxygen to his brain. So he was saying things that weren't his nature. One of the last things he said to me was, I don't think this is a good idea. You're old and they got two kids. Who's going to want you now? That just stuck with me so profoundly.

• 1:03:19Dax Shepard?

  What a lovely.

• 1:03:22Speaker 02

  But that wasn't him.

• 1:03:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:24Speaker 02

  He was never mean to anyone.

• 1:03:25Dax Shepard?

  He was afraid for you because he loved you. And it came out terribly.

• 1:03:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, like I guess maybe he thought I shouldn't get a divorce.

• 1:03:34Dax Shepard?

  I'm presuming he just wanted to make sure you were okay.

• 1:03:37Speaker 02

  Safe.

• 1:03:38Dax Shepard?

  And then in his mind, you were better off in a shitty marriage than you would be trying to find someone else.

• 1:03:44Speaker 01

  Well, and that generation tend to think that way.

• 1:03:47Dax Shepard?

  I know you have a lot of anxiety. When do you start? I'm presuming you were on some Benzo. You were on Xanax or something. When does that trajectory start?

• 1:03:56Speaker 02

  That started when we separated. I just didn't know how to cope with all the feelings and all the responsibility that I suddenly felt. I've always supported myself, even in my marriage. And we split everything was never like, oh, how am I going to survive kind of thing? It just was, I was broken. I didn't know how to be alone and deal with it all. And yeah, we moved to the ranch because the paparazzi were just nuts. We lived in Toluca Lake and they just were really bad.

• 1:04:23Dax Shepard?

  When you're with your kids.

• 1:04:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so I just wanted to get them out of there and have like a normal life with them. So they went to like the local school and we walked to school and it was just Mayberry, USA. It was perfect. And then the show presented itself as something that he and I would produce together about us moving to the ranch and kind of having both worlds.

• 1:04:44Dax Shepard?

  Fish out of water. You guys are leaving Hollywood to live in the country.

• 1:04:47Speaker 02

  But really I was back to my roots. I wasn't out of water at all. I was happy.

• 1:04:52Dax Shepard?

  But when the show was bought and originally conceived, you guys were going to go there as a couple.

• 1:04:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:04:57Dax Shepard?

  And then by the time production starts.

• 1:04:59Speaker 02

  Everything had changed.

• 1:05:00Dax Shepard?

  You're not a couple.

• 1:05:01Speaker 02

  No, I'm drinking wine at night and taking medication.

• 1:05:06Dax Shepard?

  I would be embarrassed my marriage felt.

• 1:05:08Speaker 02

  It was very embarrassing.

• 1:05:09Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:05:09Speaker 02

  And then I felt like such an asshole for being embarrassed. Like, that's ego.

• 1:05:13Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but we're not there yet. You're not the healthy Jenny yet.

• 1:05:15Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:05:15Dax Shepard?

  So at the time, if my marriage is falling apart and my first step is going to be to be in a reality show where I acknowledge that, no way.

• 1:05:22Speaker 02

  It's hard. I don't even know.

• 1:05:24Dax Shepard?

  That's gonna be out of body.

• 1:05:25Speaker 02

  Who that was. I have no idea that era of my life. I just remember being prodded out of bed. I would take the girls to school. I would go back to bed and then the crew would show up and I would be like, I can't get up. I don't know. And they would talk me up and get me out and I would end up doing it just because that's what you do.

• 1:05:42Dax Shepard?

  Were you just like completely disassociated throughout the whole process? I would have just gone to a place in my mind and watched this unfold like, holy shit, what's happening?

• 1:05:52Speaker 02

  It was very surreal. It was very out of body. And but then there were moments of levity, which helped me feel better about the girls' experience because they were getting distracted by the crew and the fun people. And then they would be doing fun things that they created for the show. And I was like, this feels good. Everybody's laughing and feels normal for this moment. And then they would leave. And then the reality would be like, oh, this is what's normal.

• 1:06:18Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he came to visit at one point and said, let's go talk in the RV while the show's being shot.

• 1:06:25Speaker 02

  I don't know if the show was being shot at that time. I don't think the crew was there. I think it was over.

• 1:06:29Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:06:30Speaker 02

  You know, y'all, this is my story. This is my recollection of it. I have literally no idea what his story is. I'm curious. We've never really sat down and gone through the beat by beat of it all. I don't think I really need to do that. But my remembrance is that we went into the RV and the kids were outside playing on the farm because it was safe and they were running free like kids should be. And that's where he told me that he wanted us to get a divorce.

• 1:06:57Dax Shepard?

  And then he said a very fateful sentence. So he said.

• 1:07:00Speaker 02

  Yes, he said, Jen, someday you'll thank me for this. And that infuriated me. That pissed me off.

• 1:07:08Dax Shepard?

  So then we go to, for me, what would be a bottom, which is you decide you should try marriage counseling in Phoenix.

• 1:07:19Speaker 02

  I had heard about this expert and she happened to be in Phoenix. So he was on a shoot and I said, let's fly there and meet there. So we both flew from different places.

• 1:07:27Dax Shepard?

  I have to say, having never met him, that part feels very stand up that he was willing to come do that.

• 1:07:33Speaker 02

  I feel like he needed backup or he wanted someone to really make me understand. Cause I'm a fighter. I will try. And I was in denial and I was unwilling. I didn't want it. Maybe that was just for the girls, but I didn't want that to happen.

• 1:07:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Again, you're going to be completely untethered again.

• 1:07:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. So we went there and that's where everything sort of hit the fan even more than the RV.

• 1:07:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. You get to the therapy session and he's already there.

• 1:08:01Speaker 02

  He's already there, which I found was weird. He was already inside the office with the therapist. So I felt like, oh, she knows stuff already that she should have found out from both of us in that situation.

• 1:08:11Dax Shepard?

  Like the jury's been compromised.

• 1:08:12Speaker 02

  Exactly. We sat down and honestly, two minutes into it, she said, Jenny, why would you love someone when they don't love you? Why would you love someone who doesn't love you? Like it's echoing, like I'll never forget it. Those few things in my life, I've already told you three of them now that I'll never forget. That just gutted me. And I was like, yeah, no shit. Give up. Like it's time.

• 1:08:38Dax Shepard?

  It broke through. And then you got up and split and you started walking down the street in Arizona.

• 1:08:43Speaker 02

  Where I was going. It was hot as hell.

• 1:08:44Dax Shepard?

  This part, sorry, is mildly comedic. They roll up in a Toyota Corolla.

• 1:08:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:50Speaker 01

  Looking for you?

• 1:08:50Speaker 02

  Like a sand colored one, you know, the golden.

• 1:08:53Dax Shepard?

  Toyota Corolla. They come looking for you.

• 1:08:55Speaker 02

  He's in the passenger seat.

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  This is very movie-esque.

• 1:08:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is Alexander painting.

• 1:09:01Speaker 02

  Angry, crying, all the things, just like out of my mind. And they are just like, kind of keeping up with me in the car. And saying, get in the car, let us take you to a hotel. Jen, come on, get in the car, like a friend. And I was like, why would I get in your car? No. But somehow they got me in the car. And then they took me to a hotel, took us to a hotel. He checked in separately and I was like, well, I guess I'll check in. And that was the. Parting moment.

• 1:09:28Dax Shepard?

  And then that night, you drank a lot?

• 1:09:31Speaker 02

  Well, as much as you can drink of the mini bottles.

• 1:09:33Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:09:34Speaker 02

  But like, you know, chug, chug. Just stop this pain.

• 1:09:39Dax Shepard?

  And then mix with benzos.

• 1:09:41Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. Mix with medication that I'd been given for flying purposes.

• 1:09:45Dax Shepard?

  Or divorce purposes.

• 1:09:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, people really like to give people medication.

• 1:09:49Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm. So you wake up in the hospital.

• 1:09:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. After that night?

• 1:09:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I blacked out. I passed out on the floor and I had my best friend on the phone with me. I think while that was happening. So she knew I was in danger.

• 1:10:05Speaker 01

  Thank God.

• 1:10:06Dax Shepard?

  She called your assistant in LA. The assistant flew to Arizona and she got you to the hospital. And when you woke up, you're looking at your assistant.

• 1:10:15Speaker 02

  I'm looking at my assistant and whiteness and doctors and everything's very fuzzy. It all came back to me and all I wanted to do was kill the pain some more.

• 1:10:23Dax Shepard?

  I'll get personal with you. This was the part of the book, because you write, it still shames me to write this. And it feels like it still shames you a little bit to talk about it.

• 1:10:31Speaker 02

  I think the shame really came from letting the girls down. And from being a bad mom by letting myself go to that place. I could have died in that hotel room.

• 1:10:42Dax Shepard?

  But again, this is the beginning of a journey that you are destined to take. Whether you did it in 2012 or 20, or you died miserable. But this is like the time you jump off the fucking diving board. Like, this is when life starts in a bizarre way. So as much shame as you might feel, like, your transformation doesn't exist without waking up in that hospital.

• 1:11:03Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:11:03Dax Shepard?

  You go to LA and you go into treatment and I'm mad at you. You leave in six days.

• 1:11:08Speaker 02

  I wasn't good with the group environment.

• 1:11:10Dax Shepard?

  And you go on a yoga retreat with a woman to Bali and you don't stay with all the other people. You stay with her. And so I think if you're one of those group members, you might think like, oh, she thinks she's hot shit because she was on TV. Were you not nervous?

• 1:11:23Speaker 02

  I honestly didn't care. That wasn't my motive. It wasn't the reason I was isolating. And I think most of them, if not all of them, were really understanding and respectful of that and kind.

• 1:11:33Dax Shepard?

  What do you think prevented you from participating?

• 1:11:36Speaker 02

  I just wasn't ready to open up to strangers. And just like in group therapy at the rehab, I spent so much time being private and carrying it all in silence and hiding it from the world. I wasn't ready.

• 1:11:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:50Speaker 01

  Were you also worried people were gonna find out like this world?

• 1:11:53Speaker 02

  I was very worried people were gonna find out that I was in rehab.

• 1:11:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:57Speaker 02

  Cause I didn't want my kids to have to deal with that publicly.

• 1:12:00Speaker 01

  I think that prevents a lot of people from going, which is very unfair.

• 1:12:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and it's funny too, because so, yeah, I know what you're talking about. You have all these secrets and you're carrying all this shame. And that's precisely why group things work is that you go into this group, you put out on a platter these things that you think make you unlovable and unworthy. And they go, oh yeah, I did all this too. It's all right. That's actually the magic is this thing that you're holding that you're certain will make you unlovable. Once exposed in that light, it turns out that's not the case. Cause you're looking at these other people who've done the same thing and you're like, oh no, you're so lovable. You're so likeable.

• 1:12:36Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:12:37Dax Shepard?

  You have so much value. I know that's true for you. It might be true for me.

• 1:12:41Speaker 02

  I probably missed out on a lot of that growth and it took me longer because of that to get where I needed to get.

• 1:12:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So you started taking some steps, so you get an apartment, you leave San Inez, you do dedicate a month that had been etched out for treatment and you start doing an outpatient program. You meet this woman, you go to Bali on the yoga thing.

• 1:13:00Speaker 02

  The outpatient program felt like it was full time though.

• 1:13:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you said it was like nine hours a day or something.

• 1:13:05Speaker 02

  And sitting in a room by yourself and people come in, every different kind of therapist.

• 1:13:09Dax Shepard?

  I was curious, yeah, cause you just do therapy session, therapy session. Did you leave with diagnoses? Like, did they start telling you you're this or that?

• 1:13:16Speaker 02

  I'd already had diagnoses of depression from a very young age that I was always using medication to balance and then going off of it because I didn't think I needed it, being embarrassed because I had to take it and then not taking it when I was pregnant and just dealing with all the ups and downs of that. And so I was already there. They didn't really give me any kind of diagnosis. They were just really. Helping me hear the words that I needed to be hearing constantly and hearing the messages of value and worth and listening to your instinct and just trying to get me back in my own body.

• 1:13:48Dax Shepard?

  In your body, yeah. So in order of the things that were very effective, I'm fascinated by this. And funny enough, you talk about joining this Buddhist group and going every Monday night. And I wrote down the name of it.

• 1:14:01Speaker 02

  Kadampa.

• 1:14:02Dax Shepard?

  Kadampa.

• 1:14:02Speaker 02

  It's right down the street.

• 1:14:03Dax Shepard?

  So I wrote down the name of it because I'm like, oh, I want to start taking classes there on Mondays. And then I'm taking a family walk with my kids.

• 1:14:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can walk there.

• 1:14:11Dax Shepard?

  Two days ago, and we like, I look at a sign and I go, oh, my God, this is impossible. You guys, I just wrote down the name of this from reading Jenny's blog.

• 1:14:18Speaker 02

  It is literally a sign.

• 1:14:20Dax Shepard?

  And then my 11 year old's like, I want to go with you.

• 1:14:22Speaker 02

  It's so fun. You know, they do for kids too.

• 1:14:24Dax Shepard?

  Oh, they do. Oh, yeah.

• 1:14:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just drove by it on the way here and thought, oh, I miss going there. I need to get back.

• 1:14:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. What things were you picking up that were helping you tether yourself to yourself? And what were the building blocks that helped you most come out of this?

• 1:14:39Speaker 02

  Ghenin Rigpa, the leader of the class, he was so relatable. Like he translated the teachings of Buddha into like present day usable stuff that we're all dealing with. Road rage and heartbreak and hesitation for reaching for your goals, all the things. So I was hearing it in just a different language. It just came in differently and it just resonated so much. And I had seen a friend of mine that had gone through the stages of the Buddhist teachings.

• 1:15:05Dax Shepard?

  You met someone on set, right? It was another actor?

• 1:15:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, another actor. I was like, wow, you are so cool and level headed and just like a piece all the time. I want what you have. What's wrong with you? Like, where'd you get that? He's the one that told me about it. But I was just sitting there listening to the teachings and I took copious notes because I tend to have to write things down in order to remember them. And I just have those books with me. I go back to them all the time. Also, the just human connection that you said I was perhaps missing by not going to the group therapy and realizing that all these people were there for the same reason. And one of the main teachings of Buddhism is that we all want to be free from suffering. And that was just revolutionary for me. It started me thinking outside of my own pain and realizing that we're all carrying our own pain.

• 1:15:52Speaker 02

  And it's through connecting and then recognizing that in each other. That the healing really happens.

• 1:15:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Talk about the scarcity mindset a little bit. I thought this was a great section.

• 1:16:03Speaker 02

  I think I've always had it, just growing up very modestly and having been independent my whole life and having to pay all of my bills and other bills. You worry about things like, what if it's not there? Like, I would keep clothes that I didn't need because I thought, maybe someday I'll need that and maybe I won't have enough money to buy it. In your mind, when you are so self-sufficient, it's scary.

• 1:16:24Dax Shepard?

  I love that you say, in that mindset, too, you're scanning for short-term wins because you have so much anxiety and they're not long-term wins. I can relate to this so much. Like, as an actor, it's like, oh, that movie failed. Shit, I don't think I'm gonna get hired again. I guess I'm gonna consider these other things that I never wanted to do, but they're on the table, so I should take them because those will go away, too.

• 1:16:44Speaker 02

  If I don't do it, somebody else will. And I had to make money. I had to support myself and my girls. And I was accustomed to a certain kind of lifestyle. Sure, yes, we could have moved into an apartment. But I really wanted, probably for myself, too, because I'm really at home at my home, like, that's my place. I wanted to have that sort of security for my girls and always be able to provide it. But the scarcity just keeps you living in fear of not having. And I think especially with money, because I spent all those years not worrying about money. It'll come, it'll happen, it magically appears. I don't know who does what with it, but it's all good.

• 1:17:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:20Speaker 02

  Then, all of a sudden, I was forced to really think about, how am I gonna do this? I don't have that backup. Even if we were sharing things equally, the feeling of having that kind of backup support was gone. And my dad had died, and I felt a lot more responsibility. And I just never worried about money. And then, all of a sudden, I started worrying about money. I started worrying about, when am I gonna get enough to pay? And my business manager was really scaring the shit out of me all the time. Said, you need to sell your house. And actually, you need to sell the ranch, too. So I just built a home for my daughters. And he said, you need to sell it now while the real estate is at its height because it's gonna change. I was like, okay. And I didn't have a sounding board on the other side of that.

• 1:18:05Speaker 02

  And then he said, you need to sell your ranch and I did that too. And I regret both of those decisions because the minute you start worrying and holding on and attaching to the outcome of the money coming and going, that is when for me it stopped coming. I like clenched my fists around it and strangled it. With worry and that was a real life lesson.

• 1:18:27Dax Shepard?

  You gotta kind of take a leap of faith.

• 1:18:29Speaker 02

  And even like going back to my relationship with the girl's dad, young, insecure me was worried that he would leave me or he would cheat on me. He's an actor. He's going to make out with beautiful women. And that was very difficult and I got really concerned about it and I made it happen.

• 1:18:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:46Speaker 02

  And I remember him too saying at some point, you're gonna make this happen. I didn't understand that. And I also kind of thought that's a little bit manipulative because you're saying, I'm gonna make you do something.

• 1:18:55Speaker 01

  There is some element of that.

• 1:18:57Speaker 02

  But I get it from the other perspective too.

• 1:19:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. It's like, if I'm always in trouble for cheating or I'm always under scrutiny, then I might as well be having fun because I'm dealing with this and I'm not having that. I'm paying the prices if I were.

• 1:19:09Speaker 02

  There was a lot of that in our relationship because I was just insecure and unstable and not connected with myself.

• 1:19:16Speaker 01

  Like most of us.

• 1:19:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. I felt like it took a long time for me. Like I didn't get there until like 50, late 40s where I really started to understand myself more and love myself to the point where I could comfort my own self and be my own anchor.

• 1:19:31Dax Shepard?

  Well, I admire how much you tried and fought. Like you did landmark.

• 1:19:37Speaker 02

  Did you ever do landmark?

• 1:19:39Dax Shepard?

  No, but our friend did the whole thing.

• 1:19:41Speaker 01

  He loves it. He still talks about it all the time.

• 1:19:44Speaker 02

  It's like a Kool-Aid.

• 1:19:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:46Dax Shepard?

  He doesn't participate anymore, but I think he was great at extracting. Of course, there's really great principles in there or it wouldn't be so successful.

• 1:19:53Speaker 02

  I've still live by one of them today. You have a choice in the world every day. You are a person that either loves chocolate ice cream or vanilla ice cream. Which is it? And then you're like vanilla. So to really get in touch with your internal, answering a question without doubt. So I've always go back to that one too.

• 1:20:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. My understanding of it that I like a lot is it's a lot about personal responsibility. Like the world's not happening to you.

• 1:20:17Speaker 02

  No, you're not a victim.

• 1:20:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you're not a victim. It's not happening to you. It's happening for you. And how do you want to navigate it?

• 1:20:24Speaker 02

  And while you're at it, go clean up all the shit that you've already destroyed.

• 1:20:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:28Speaker 02

  Which was really beneficial. I think that helps a lot of people so much because so much happens when we we know we've messed up something or made a mistake or didn't do something well regarding the other person's perspective or feelings. So it really does pinpoint those moments for you and then you go back and meet with that person, hopefully, or write them a letter or whatever.

• 1:20:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, there's the nine step in the program, which is like, clean up your records again. So you don't have to walk around with shame because you can't afford to walk around with shame.

• 1:20:55Speaker 02

  It's like a bucket. If you have a bucket full of water and the water being all those moments where you messed up and you are beating yourself up over it and it's full and you just have to put your foot right in it and let the water overflow. Because you will never get past it if you don't.

• 1:21:11Dax Shepard?

  Let's talk about David because you also found a way to find love again as you titled the chapter in the book. How did this one differ from previous ones?

• 1:21:20Speaker 02

  It was weird. I was trying dating. I'd never done that. I didn't know what kind of guy I liked. I tried all different sizes and shapes and locations. Usually they were out of town, which was nice because I could come home and be a mommy. And then when I didn't have my kids, I would go try to date someone.

• 1:21:36Dax Shepard?

  And if you have a hard time establishing boundaries, a geographical boundary helps.

• 1:21:40Speaker 02

  Definitely. I had really come through a lot of intense therapy at that point with my therapist Wade. And I was feeling this freedom and this positive feeling of like, I can handle everything now. And right when that happened, I met Dave. I built my house and I was doing a photo shoot for the unveiling of the house because it was on HGTV. And I was thinking like, this is the best. I'm here with my dogs and my helm the way I want it. And that night I had a blind date with somebody. My friends at school had set me up. It was like a blind double date. That's when I met Dave.

• 1:22:12Speaker 01

  Wow, I love that.

• 1:22:13Speaker 02

  And I remember walking in because I didn't know who he was. So I did look him up on the internet. I was busy all day. So I was like, help me look this guy up. And a Chippendales dancer came up with the same name. So I texted my friend. I was like, he's not a Chippendales dancer. Right? She's like, no, he didn't have a big footprint at all on the line. So I just kind of went into it blindly and I walked in, he was this tall, handsome actor looking guy. And I was like, oh, fuck. No, thank you. Bye bye. So so completely detached the whole dinner, just thinking this is such a waste of my time, but trying to, you know, get through it. And then he made me laugh a few times and women are a sucker for laughter.

• 1:22:49Dax Shepard?

  Thank God.

• 1:22:49Speaker 02

  Thank God, right? Because I didn't have laughter in my life and I was like, oh, this feels really good. And I thought I want this for my girls too.

• 1:22:57Dax Shepard?

  We didn't have joy in your life.

• 1:22:59Speaker 02

  I didn't have joy.

• 1:23:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, no light.

• 1:23:01Speaker 02

  No, I was just plugging along and he brought that to our household. I just fell in love with it and him.

• 1:23:08Speaker 01

  That's lovely.

• 1:23:09Speaker 02

  We've been married for 10 years.

• 1:23:11Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:23:11Speaker 02

  I call it nine because we did spend a year of separation when the sparkles faded again in the relationship after like that first year, when it's not what you thought it would be.

• 1:23:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Well, when the work is now required.

• 1:23:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:23:24Dax Shepard?

  And neither of you have experience or the confidence, can I challenge this without being unlovable?

• 1:23:30Speaker 02

  And he had never been in a relationship like that. He all of a sudden had three stepchildren.

• 1:23:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a lot.

• 1:23:36Speaker 02

  Four dogs. So he stepped into a big world and we took a year off. We were getting divorced, actually. And we had the paperwork signed on my end. He hadn't signed it yet and it was in a yellow envelope in the back of his truck. This truck that he bought after we broke up as like a sign of defiance, like this giant tundra. And he lived on the itty bitty streets in Silver Lake and it was all scraped up and dented. He loved that truck. But he had, he had the paperwork in the back of his car. I noticed it there months after we had gotten back together. And I was like, this has been in your car this whole time? He's like, yeah, I'm going to keep it around. Cause it reminds him like I have free will, like I cannot be in this relationship if I don't want to.

• 1:24:15Dax Shepard?

  I choose to be in it.

• 1:24:17Speaker 02

  Right. I think it helped him kind of come to terms with that, but he had a lot of growing to do. I had to go back to the drawing board because. It was just like ripping a Band-Aid off a real fresh wound.

• 1:24:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. Were you like, oh my God, again?

• 1:24:30Speaker 02

  More attacking my own self internally for what is wrong with you? And then the narrative in my mind had become and was really concreted was you are not able to have a healthy relationship. There's just something about you that you can't do it.

• 1:24:46Dax Shepard?

  You're permanently flawed.

• 1:24:47Speaker 02

  Okay, I guess that's me and I'll just live that way.

• 1:24:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I'm defective.

• 1:24:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, some people just can't do certain things and maybe that's mine.

• 1:24:55Speaker 01

  How'd you get out of that? Therapy?

• 1:24:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was after that divorce or separation slash divorce that I went to Bali and started doing a lot more work right back into it. Like I cannot let this derail me.

• 1:25:08Dax Shepard?

  You can't wake up in the hospital again.

• 1:25:10Speaker 02

  No. And so I just started working right away and learned even more about myself during that time. And really came to peace with what is and stopped trying to fight everything. And that combined with the Buddha classes that I was going to really just brought me peace in whatever situation I ended up in. Like it will all work out. You will be fine. Also, that opportunity to really connect with, it sounds so woo woo, but like the little girl inside of me, that little person that is so afraid and so like something's wrong with me and nobody can really love me, nobody knows me, this person. I started to become her best friend again. Like I started to mother her like I did my own daughters.

• 1:25:52Speaker 02

  And once I started to do that, I just felt at peace and capable of taking care of her, me, us.

• 1:26:00Dax Shepard?

  Well, and in Buddhism, right, the suffering's coming from you trying to force a different reality than the one you're in. The reality is not actually that painful. It's the desire to have a different reality around you that is so uncomfortable.

• 1:26:14Speaker 02

  Afraid of the unknown. Yeah, that's attachment. That's one of the core beliefs is. Not having attachment. And you know, if you are full on Buddhist, you don't have attachment to any things. But in this modern world, they taught it in a way that there are certain things that it's okay to have and love and be so grateful that you have them. But then there are certain things that you're attaching to that are not benefiting you and sort of really deciphering what those are and learning how to unattach.

• 1:26:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Well, I choose me is the book, and I think it's a very brave book. And I think a lot of people, like even as you're saying right now, you felt like, how is this happening again? It must not be for me. When I interviewed my mom, I was like, it's so inconsistent with who you are to have been with a guy that was beating you up. How were you this gangster of a woman with a guy that was beating you up repeatedly? And she said, the thought of failing again was more painful. I couldn't accept failing again at this. And I think a lot of people relate to that.

• 1:27:17Speaker 02

  For whatever reason, the shame or the inevitable pain that you know you're going to go through.

• 1:27:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So for you to publicly put out your whole roadmap, I think is awesome and admirable. And I think it's great.

• 1:27:31Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:27:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:33Speaker 02

  I think that learning how to connect with other people, especially as an older woman, learning how to connect with other women, has just brought me such a desire to keep doing that in hopes that someone sees themselves somewhere in my journey.

• 1:27:47Dax Shepard?

  Yes. If someone comes up to you and they offer adoration to you because they wanted to be you on 90210 versus someone that comes up to you and is like, I have experienced the same thing as you, and I feel so seen and connected are two dramatically different things. They're the thing you wanted. They're substantive. They're not your acute baby. They're your story has made me feel less alone.

• 1:28:08Speaker 02

  Right. It made me feel seen, less alone, because we just internalize everything as humans.

• 1:28:13Dax Shepard?

  We think we're so uniquely terrible. It's like, all of us are.

• 1:28:16Speaker 02

  All of us are.

• 1:28:18Dax Shepard?

  Right? Yes, an illusion if you think you know someone's done it perfectly. Well, Jenny, great meeting you. Thanks for coming. Good luck with the book. Everyone get I choose me.

• 1:28:28Speaker 05

  He's an arm care expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's gonna let him have the facts.

• 1:28:38Speaker 01

  I have a story.

• 1:28:39Dax Shepard?

  Oh, great.

• 1:28:40Speaker 01

  So this is like right after you left. So this was like two months ago.

• 1:28:44Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:28:46Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:28:47Dax Shepard?

  I was going for a week just to be.

• 1:28:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it feels like it was a really long time ago. Anna and Anna parked her car at my house. Okay, we were gonna walk to Cara. But before we walked to Cara, we were gonna drop something off at your house.

• 1:29:00Dax Shepard?

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:29:00Speaker 01

  So we stopped by your house. We're chit chatting. Kristen, Delta, I, oh, I dropped off a vintage shirt for Lincoln for her birthday.

• 1:29:10Dax Shepard?

  Which one was that?

• 1:29:10Speaker 01

  Willie Nelson.

• 1:29:11Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Great, great tea.

• 1:29:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so then we asked if anyone wanted anything from Cara. Delta wanted a salad.

• 1:29:20Dax Shepard?

  The gem salad.

• 1:29:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. So then we walked to Cara. Have a great time.

• 1:29:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:25Speaker 01

  Get the salad, walk back to your house to drop off the salad.

• 1:29:29Dax Shepard?

  Everything's looking good.

• 1:29:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:31Dax Shepard?

  It's gonna be a great outing.

• 1:29:32Speaker 01

  Well, so far. And it's like eight thirty-five, I would say. We drop off the salad. Delta's asleep. Um, and we, so then we start walking to my house. Now, for the listener who doesn't know or remember, my house is.

• 1:29:49Dax Shepard?

  Eighty feet.

• 1:29:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was gonna say fifteen, but that's because I don't know measurements.

• 1:29:53Dax Shepard?

  It's, you know, there's two options.

• 1:29:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:55Dax Shepard?

  You can try, you can go down your driveway, or you can go up the hill to where your front door is.

• 1:30:00Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly.

• 1:30:01Dax Shepard?

  Probably equidistant.

• 1:30:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:30:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but it within a couple hundred feet.

• 1:30:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it's so close.

• 1:30:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:30:08Speaker 01

  Okay, so we're walking. Oh, we have Mona. This is a big part of it. Mona is Anna's dog and a pretty large dog.

• 1:30:15Dax Shepard?

  She's a, she has, she looks like, um, almost like a wolf.

• 1:30:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, but like, not a scary one.

• 1:30:21Dax Shepard?

  Not a wolf like in the forest, like a wolfhound.

• 1:30:23Speaker 01

  Right. Just, but like, so like.

• 1:30:25Dax Shepard?

  She's so nice.

• 1:30:26Speaker 01

  Nice and kind of dumb looking, like.

• 1:30:28Dax Shepard?

  I love her and I'm not drawn to dogs so much, but I'm like in love with her.

• 1:30:32Speaker 01

  Same. I like, she's, she is a good dog.

• 1:30:34Dax Shepard?

  I like her.

• 1:30:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not gonna say, I'm not gonna say love. Anyway, okay, so we're, we have Mona. We're walking back to my house and we see my nemesis. Coyote.

• 1:30:47Dax Shepard?

  Coyote in the street.

• 1:30:49Speaker 01

  Corner, on the corner, just looking, just looking at us, okay?

• 1:30:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, they love to look.

• 1:30:54Speaker 01

  And I was like, okay, uh, I know, I think you're supposed, you're supposed to just keep walking. And look and be not

• 1:31:03Dax Shepard?

  Look them directly in the face. Go, what's up? Even just them hearing what's up.

• 1:31:08Speaker 01

  No, I don't want to talk to them.

• 1:31:10Dax Shepard?

  It scares them.

• 1:31:11Speaker 01

  Okay, so I was like, you're supposed to be non phased and just be like you own the streets.

• 1:31:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, you're six times the size.

• 1:31:19Speaker 01

  Oh, no, no, it was, no, they're big. And so

• 1:31:24Dax Shepard?

  Maybe not six, but.

• 1:31:25Speaker 01

  I mean, they're like my size. If I got down on all fours, they're my size. Anyway, um.

• 1:31:32Dax Shepard?

  You're a hundred pounds, they're, they're probably forty, forty pounds.

• 1:31:36Speaker 01

  But they're all muscle.

• 1:31:38Dax Shepard?

  They're all hair.

• 1:31:38Speaker 01

  I'm mostly boob. So I don't know what my chances are. Anyway, he was looking at us and I was like, okay. I know we're supposed to keep going, but and, and normally I'm scared and honest, not scared of things, but she was scared. So this wasn't a good combo and she was really worried about Mona because coyotes eat dogs.

• 1:31:57Dax Shepard?

  Even though Mona's much bigger than.

• 1:31:59Speaker 01

  Small dogs. Yeah, but still we were like getting, we were starting to get a little panicky.

• 1:32:03Dax Shepard?

  We should add Mona's extremely beta.

• 1:32:05Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:32:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:32:07Speaker 01

  Like she's not.

• 1:32:08Dax Shepard?

  Frank would have gone after, he would have lost, but he would have gone after the coyote.

• 1:32:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, what do you prefer? You know, I don't know.

• 1:32:15Dax Shepard?

  I can tell you right now what I prefer.

• 1:32:17Speaker 01

  Well, so I was like, oh no, I don't know what to do. And I was like, me either. And we just were standing still. And I was like, okay.

• 1:32:25Dax Shepard?

  Like deer, they freeze.

• 1:32:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:28Dax Shepard?

  So you really look like prey because now you're frozen.

• 1:32:30Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:32:31Dax Shepard?

  Yep.

• 1:32:31Speaker 01

  The opposite thing of what you're supposed to do. And then I was like, okay. And I knew that I was like, I don't, we're not supposed to be like standing here like this. We gotta, I like, I don't, uh, and I was like, let's go back. So we turned our back and kind of walked quickly back to your house. Okay. And, and then we just stood in that little well.

• 1:32:52Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh. Yeah, yeah. Where the packages come.

• 1:32:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, where the packages, we just stood there and I Googled, what do you do when you come across a coyote? Basically, first thing it says is, don't stop, don't turn around, don't run, you know, everything we had just done.

• 1:33:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:08Speaker 01

  And I was like, fuck. And then it said, you know, be last. Loud.

• 1:33:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:33:13Speaker 01

  Um, throw rocks.

• 1:33:14Dax Shepard?

  Absolutely, yeah.

• 1:33:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, but there were no rocks.

• 1:33:17Dax Shepard?

  Understand throwing. So it's like you're a thing and all of a sudden you got projectiles.

• 1:33:22Speaker 01

  Okay, interesting, but they didn't.

• 1:33:25Speaker 06

  I think you just yell at it. We have them on our street all the time and that's all Natalie does.

• 1:33:30Speaker 01

  It was dark.

• 1:33:31Speaker 06

  I know, but they're city.

• 1:33:33Speaker 01

  You don't under.

• 1:33:34Dax Shepard?

  Natalie's not white.

• 1:33:35Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:33:36Speaker 06

  They're city coyotes.

• 1:33:37Speaker 01

  Forgot about that. Okay. So, okay, so it's like throw rocks. We didn't see any rocks, but it was like be loud. Um, I was like, okay, so we'll just, and we're starting to like get unhinged. Like our ideas were bad. You know, I was like, okay, I'll just put on this podcast and it'll be loud. Okay, and I'll turn on my flashlight on my phone. So turn on my flashlight, turn on the podcast, which is Aaron and Sarah's podcast, Aaron Foster and Sarah Foster's podcast that I've become kind of weirdly obsessed with. Turned it on and it's just their voices, like, you know, talking normal. It wasn't that loud.

• 1:34:13Dax Shepard?

  I don't want to be critical, but when choosing a podcast, maybe like go rogue and I mean, now's the time for the manosphere.

• 1:34:20Speaker 01

  I agree. I agree. Aggression, but it's just he's like two ladies, you know, and.

• 1:34:26Dax Shepard?

  You sound delicious.

• 1:34:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, these like attractive women. And so I'm just like walking, holding it and I real, you know, we're three steps in and we look up three coyotes now.

• 1:34:39Dax Shepard?

  They've gremlin'd on you.

• 1:34:40Speaker 01

  He got his friends. He said, oh, I have the per, these, these girls will not stand a chance.

• 1:34:46Dax Shepard?

  Easy pickings, but I'm gonna need help because there's just too much for me to eat.

• 1:34:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:51Speaker 01

  And they just stood there staring at us. It was so scary. So then we really, we turned and we ran back to your house.

• 1:35:02Speaker 01

  Sprinted.

• 1:35:04Dax Shepard?

  You should have hung. You should have hung baloney on your back while you were running.

• 1:35:08Speaker 01

  We were from cars. Like, we probably smelled like food.

• 1:35:11Dax Shepard?

  Sure, yummy.

• 1:35:13Speaker 01

  So we run back to the house and um, this time we run into the house and I say, Mom, we don't, we don't know what to do. And she said, I'll, I'll go with you guys. And then Lincoln popped up from the couch and I want to go.

• 1:35:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. She get her numb check?

• 1:35:30Speaker 01

  She's very you in that way. She really wanted to be part of the.

• 1:35:34Dax Shepard?

  Bravery.

• 1:35:35Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly. And I was like, no, no, no. And you know, too, because then you have to walk back by yourself. I don't want that. And um, and so the solution I came up with uh, was to take Kristen's car, drive it to my house. The problem is, I don't like driving other people's cars.

• 1:36:01Speaker 01

  So then, we drove Kristen's car to my house. I got in my car, followed Kristen's car back. Anna drove Kristen's car back to your house and I followed to drop off her car. And then Anna got.

• 1:36:15Dax Shepard?

  Again, a reminder to the listener, 100 feet.

• 1:36:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then Anna got in my car. We drove back to my house and she got in her car.

• 1:36:22Dax Shepard?

  This became the fairy riddle.

• 1:36:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a riddle.

• 1:36:26Dax Shepard?

  You got some chickens, you got a fox and a bag of grain.

• 1:36:30Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:36:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:31Speaker 01

  So it all worked out. And then, and then I got home and I um, I panic bought so much stuff. So I bought wolf pee. That's a deterrent.

• 1:36:44Dax Shepard?

  That you're gonna put where? Around your doorstep?

• 1:36:46Speaker 01

  I think around my front. But I don't want it to smell that. Yeah, I know.

• 1:36:52Dax Shepard?

  As opposed to go like, hey, what's up? Like, your options, your options are scatter urine all over the place. Or go, hey, what's up?

• 1:37:00Speaker 01

  I just don't think they're gonna do to me what they do to you.

• 1:37:03Dax Shepard?

  You haven't tried. You can't conclude that yet.

• 1:37:04Speaker 01

  If I try it and I get eaten, what are you, how are you gonna feel?

• 1:37:08Dax Shepard?

  You can't, you cannot find me a story of an adult.

• 1:37:11Speaker 01

  Rob, look it up.

• 1:37:13Dax Shepard?

  An adult getting eaten.

• 1:37:14Speaker 01

  A female, five feet brown at night. Okay?

• 1:37:19Speaker 06

  By a coyote specifically?

• 1:37:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:23Dax Shepard?

  Go ahead and Indian. Put college educated.

• 1:37:26Speaker 01

  Indian, don't put college educated. Don't you put that small, high voice, high voice. Cause maybe it won't care if I say, what's up?

• 1:37:37Speaker 06

  There was a 2009 case, but that was the last.

• 1:37:41Dax Shepard?

  What, what happened in 2009?

• 1:37:44Speaker 06

  Taylor was hiking in the national park. She was attacked by two coyotes and died from injuries and blood loss.

• 1:37:50Speaker 01

  Oh my God. Oh my God.

• 1:37:53Dax Shepard?

  I regret having you look this up.

• 1:37:55Speaker 01

  Oh my God. 2009, I graduated college. So that's sim.

• 1:37:59Speaker 06

  It does say it is extremely rare.

• 1:38:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I don't care. I don't want to be the one. My life is very rare. I've had really rare good.

• 1:38:08Dax Shepard?

  I wonder if she was taking a nap.

• 1:38:09Speaker 06

  This is the, it's the only confirmed case of an adult human being killed by coyotes.

• 1:38:14Dax Shepard?

  The only.

• 1:38:16Speaker 06

  Is this woman.

• 1:38:17Speaker 01

  I don't rule, I'm very special.

• 1:38:19Dax Shepard?

  In the woods taking a nap with roast beef.

• 1:38:21Speaker 01

  Don't you say that about her.

• 1:38:22Dax Shepard?

  Snacks hanging out of her mouth.

• 1:38:25Speaker 01

  Anyway.

• 1:38:26Dax Shepard?

  Anywho, I'm sorry you got spooked like that.

• 1:38:28Speaker 01

  Oh my God. So then I bought the wolf pee. I bought some air horns. Turned out I bought too many. I bought like nine. I don't know how that happened.

• 1:38:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:35Speaker 01

  Um, and then I bought, um, um, a little flashlight.

• 1:38:40Dax Shepard?

  But you're bad at Amazon. It's interesting.

• 1:38:43Speaker 01

  I don't know what happened. I got flashlights, a little one that goes on my keychain. I got, um, and I got this really mean wolf mask thing that I think you put on your fence and it has lights and it like, looks really scary.

• 1:38:59Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:39:00Speaker 06

  Did you think of getting one for yourself to wear?

• 1:39:02Dax Shepard?

  That's what I thought she was saying. It was like gonna be in her purse and she was gonna, so I was thinking like, why would you have the gumption with a mask on to be aggressive?

• 1:39:11Speaker 01

  Well, I would if it's like a scary wolf with, it's like scary red eyes out of flash.

• 1:39:16Dax Shepard?

  Okay. But I think what's scary is that you are three feet above them.

• 1:39:20Speaker 01

  I'm like one foot up, but they're tall.

• 1:39:23Dax Shepard?

  I'm like, I think we're seeing different things out of our eyes.

• 1:39:26Speaker 01

  How tall they are? Average coyote.

• 1:39:29Speaker 06

  Two feet.

• 1:39:30Speaker 01

  Okay. Then I am three feet taller.

• 1:39:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:32Speaker 01

  But they know, they have instincts.

• 1:39:36Dax Shepard?

  Well, they do know you're scared of them.

• 1:39:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:38Dax Shepard?

  You've made that clear.

• 1:39:39Speaker 01

  I am scared of them. I am scared.

• 1:39:42Dax Shepard?

  But, um, I don't know if this is one of these situations where you don't really, you're not, you're not looking for any advice or anything.

• 1:39:49Speaker 01

  Well.

• 1:39:50Dax Shepard?

  Cause here's what I'll say is you can't not be scared of them by just thinking about it. Right? That'll never happen. You're gonna be.

• 1:39:57Speaker 01

  Thinking about that. Exactly. Yeah.

• 1:39:59Dax Shepard?

  You can't think your way out of being scared of.

• 1:40:00Speaker 01

  Yes, correct.

• 1:40:01Dax Shepard?

  But I promise you, and I know for sure, if you can one time run at them and scream, they will run and then you will know permanently, oh yeah, that's how I can do that. So it's either we gotta try that or we gotta be afraid they're in the neighborhood. There's a ton of coyotes in our neighborhood.

• 1:40:22Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:40:23Dax Shepard?

  Have you heard them go berserk yet?

• 1:40:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:40:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, they go, it sounds like they're having a seance.

• 1:40:27Speaker 01

  They were screaming the other night.

• 1:40:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, devil worshiping orgy. They'll be like.

• 1:40:31Speaker 01

  Who wouldn't be scared of that?

• 1:40:32Dax Shepard?

  Seems like 15 or 20 of them and they're, the noises they're making, it makes laughing hyenas sound inviting.

• 1:40:39Speaker 01

  It's really bad.

• 1:40:40Dax Shepard?

  And you wonder, are they eating an old lady?

• 1:40:44Dax Shepard?

  That's what you wonder when you're in your room.

• 1:40:46Speaker 06

  It's only happened, it's only happened once ever.

• 1:40:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:49Speaker 01

  No, that's been recorded.

• 1:40:50Dax Shepard?

  You wonder, was it 2009 when you hear that?

• 1:40:52Speaker 01

  I don't like them at all. Your hair looks like it's getting longer.

• 1:40:58Dax Shepard?

  It is. I'm growing it out.

• 1:40:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. What do we think? It's in the crazy phase.

• 1:41:02Speaker 01

  It looks nice.

• 1:41:03Dax Shepard?

  And then you sure?

• 1:41:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. So your thing's working.

• 1:41:06Dax Shepard?

  What's that?

• 1:41:07Speaker 01

  Your, your.

• 1:41:08Dax Shepard?

  Topical?

• 1:41:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:09Dax Shepard?

  Does it look thick?

• 1:41:12Dax Shepard?

  I mean, long doesn't equal thick, right? It would have always grown long. Just how dense would it have been as it was growing long?

• 1:41:20Speaker 01

  I guess. I think it, yeah.

• 1:41:22Dax Shepard?

  I'll tell you, every guy I know has seen this. This probably hasn't reached your algorithm.

• 1:41:26Speaker 01

  Turkey.

• 1:41:27Dax Shepard?

  No, that's, that's hair transplant.

• 1:41:29Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:41:30Dax Shepard?

  There's a UCLA, I keep seeing this goddamn meme on Instagram and apparently UCLA has a full-on topical cure for baldness that.

• 1:41:39Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:41:40Dax Shepard?

  Completely wakes up all dormant follicles.

• 1:41:45Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:41:46Dax Shepard?

  Yes. I was talking to another person with, they, they had long hair and I was saying, I'm growing my hair out. It's gonna be hard.

• 1:41:51Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:41:51Dax Shepard?

  You know, were you wearing hats, blah, blah? And I wouldn't have even thought this about him because his hair looks very robust. Somehow this UCLA thing, I go, have you heard about, and he goes, the UCLA thing? I go, yeah, I go, yeah. How do I get in the trial? He goes, I looked into it.

• 1:42:04Speaker 01

  Can you?

• 1:42:04Dax Shepard?

  There were like 500,000 applicants for a trial of like 200 people or something crazy. Every single guy was like, I need in on this trial. But apparently it's, it's like, it works and now I'm just waiting.

• 1:42:19Speaker 01

  Do you think that you should be able to jump the line because you went there?

• 1:42:22Dax Shepard?

  I think there's a lot of reasons I should jump the line.

• 1:42:24Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:42:25Dax Shepard?

  Okay. I'm a tall, white male and I'm totally disenfranchised and it's time that I get a leg up.

• 1:42:34Speaker 01

  But really you went there, I kind of think alumni should kind of get a leg up.

• 1:42:39Dax Shepard?

  I mean, I'm obsessed with this. Not only do I want the product, but I gotta figure out how to be an investor in it before it goes. Anyways.

• 1:42:46Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 1:42:47Dax Shepard?

  So you've never seen that, right?

• 1:42:48Speaker 01

  Um, no.

• 1:42:50Dax Shepard?

  UCLA invents. Exactly. And every single guy I've brought it up to has seen it.

• 1:42:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:42:56Dax Shepard?

  The algorithms are so good.

• 1:42:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:59Dax Shepard?

  They really know.

• 1:43:00Speaker 01

  It probably works for women too, women.

• 1:43:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's not like you guys have unique follicles that can't be woken up from dormant.

• 1:43:06Speaker 01

  Although I'm having the opposite situation.

• 1:43:09Dax Shepard?

  Too much.

• 1:43:09Speaker 01

  I think I'm having new hair growth.

• 1:43:11Dax Shepard?

  Oh, do you think it's coming down like a werewolf?

• 1:43:13Speaker 01

  It's not like a coyote.

• 1:43:15Dax Shepard?

  If you have to start shaving.

• 1:43:16Speaker 01

  No, the other day I was like looking in the mirror and I was like, what is this poof of hair? That's just like, it's just like sticking out.

• 1:43:23Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:43:24Speaker 01

  And I asked a hairstylist and she was like, I think it might be new hair growth. And I was like, new hair growth? That makes no sense.

• 1:43:33Dax Shepard?

  That makes no sense.

• 1:43:34Speaker 01

  But.

• 1:43:35Dax Shepard?

  Cause the only thing different in your life is that you're on TRIZ. Do you think?

• 1:43:38Speaker 01

  And creatine.

• 1:43:39Dax Shepard?

  Wouldn't it be, you've been on creatine for like four minutes, right?

• 1:43:43Speaker 01

  Like.

• 1:43:45Dax Shepard?

  But I wouldn't even be surprised if you had another off-label observation of trisepotide is oh, by the way, it makes your hair grow back because every single thing you read is like positive.

• 1:43:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe. I don't know, but I don't really love it.

• 1:43:59Dax Shepard?

  Make your teeth whiter. You're not looking for more hair.

• 1:44:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm fine.

• 1:44:03Dax Shepard?

  You're in a unique position.

• 1:44:04Speaker 01

  I know, and I don't want it to have a little puff like this. That looks weird.

• 1:44:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's hard to style.

• 1:44:11Speaker 01

  It's like when people are pregnant, often this happens, like they lose a lot of hair. And then when it grows, it's like grows back and it's like in little patches. It looks kind of weird. Um, I mean, it looks great, but you know.

• 1:44:25Dax Shepard?

  Good save. Really good save. It's as if he didn't say, even say weird.

• 1:44:34Speaker 01

  So, yeah, so I, um, yeah, hair. Okay. Well, would you ever consider going to Turkey and getting new hair? Well, you don't need it. You don't need it.

• 1:44:44Dax Shepard?

  I don't think I need to do that.

• 1:44:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, but if you went, if you were like, oh, fuck, like it's going.

• 1:44:50Dax Shepard?

  You know, this is a great topic. I, I, I mean, I, there's, there's a lot of battles happening in my head. Uh, and I think they're age related. And so, and I think I spoke on it a little bit with, when, when Zach Braff was here, which is like 85% of the time, I'm like, yeah, we're getting older and you look fine.

• 1:45:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:09Dax Shepard?

  And maybe your hair's thinner and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Maybe you have more wrinkles. 85% of the time I feel that way.

• 1:45:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:15Dax Shepard?

  And then 15% of the time I can make a very solid argument. And here's how the argument goes. I use whitening toothpaste. I want my teeth to be white. I use moisturizer on my skin. I put drops in my eyes so they're white before I'm on camera. I do all this stuff. So why am I drawing this arbitrary line between I wouldn't do this? I mean, I am vain. It's not like I'm not vain.

• 1:45:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:45:42Dax Shepard?

  And then I go, and I have the means to. So what do we do? Like, what's the hang up?

• 1:45:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:45:48Dax Shepard?

  And then I go back to like, I don't give a fuck.

• 1:45:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:50Dax Shepard?

  And I think it's cool.

• 1:45:52Speaker 01

  It's cool to not give a fuck.

• 1:45:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and I think, I think even specifically for men, probably.

• 1:45:57Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 1:45:58Dax Shepard?

  Probably a better look in general.

• 1:46:00Speaker 01

  I mean, I want everyone to do what they want, but also it's not weird. It's great. But I agree that there's something like cool, attractive about not, about someone not caring that much. I mean, caring, like putting yourself like having yourself together. Yeah. Oh, ding ding ding. I want to bring up something.

• 1:46:22Dax Shepard?

  Okay, you smell shit right now?

• 1:46:24Speaker 01

  And, and so, yeah, I'm kind of, I'm with you on that.

• 1:46:29Speaker 04

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

• 1:46:41Speaker 01

  Would you rather, this is back to the poop. I mean, the smelling like shit. Okay, do you think it's grosser to not, well, I think I know how you're gonna feel, but try to be objective, I guess. Do you think it's grosser to be with someone who never gets their teeth cleaned? Never, or has skid marks?

• 1:47:07Dax Shepard?

  Well, we need some, I need some follow up.

• 1:47:09Speaker 01

  Okay, okay, okay, okay.

• 1:47:11Dax Shepard?

  Is their mouth like a rat's nest? Or does it look completely, is it mine? Cause I don't go to the dentist.

• 1:47:16Speaker 01

  Right, that's why, I know, this is why this is tricky. I know, but I wanted, okay.

• 1:47:20Dax Shepard?

  Been two times in 20 years.

• 1:47:22Speaker 01

  I know. That, that is wild, but also I too don't get my teeth cleaned enough.

• 1:47:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and they look great. So it's like, there's nothing about your mouth that I'm going yuck.

• 1:47:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:47:32Dax Shepard?

  But if you had shit marks all the time in your unders.

• 1:47:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:47:36Dax Shepard?

  I'd be like, gross, man, wipe your hiney.

• 1:47:38Speaker 01

  Exactly. Okay, so I'm with Jess, obviously. And he, I don't know, oh, he spilled chocolate ice cream everywhere, right? And it looked disgusting.

• 1:47:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:48Speaker 01

  And he said it looked like skid marks. And I said, Do you get skid marks?

• 1:47:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:53Speaker 01

  And he said, a lot less.

• 1:47:58Dax Shepard?

  A lot less.

• 1:48:02Speaker 01

  I just said, no, no.

• 1:48:05Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 1:48:05Speaker 01

  The answer should be, no, I don't.

• 1:48:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:08Speaker 01

  And he said, well, no, like I let, I said let, I was like, I know, but you shouldn't, you shouldn't have any.

• 1:48:15Dax Shepard?

  Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try my hardest.

• 1:48:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:48:18Dax Shepard?

  I'm not gonna say who this is, but you'll know. But I have a friend who has, he'll say, dude, I put the bar of soap up my asshole. Like I cleaned my asshole so thoroughly in the shower.

• 1:48:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:32Dax Shepard?

  And then I get out and I dry off and then I can wipe my butt and there'll be, and so I don't know about like, if that's not my scenario.

• 1:48:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:48:41Dax Shepard?

  I don't have like, I guess a leaky keister.

• 1:48:45Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:48:46Dax Shepard?

  Thank God. I mean, there's so many things to be grateful for that we're not. That we should be all day long.

• 1:48:51Speaker 01

  It's true.

• 1:48:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I'm not leaking sewage.

• 1:48:54Speaker 01

  Thank God. I know. So.

• 1:48:56Dax Shepard?

  It's not weird.

• 1:48:57Speaker 01

  It's not weird. It's great.

• 1:48:59Dax Shepard?

  It's very attractive.

• 1:49:00Speaker 01

  Then he's came back, his retort was like, well, you don't get your teeth cleaned.

• 1:49:06Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Yeah. He felt a little defensive.

• 1:49:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, understandably, sure.

• 1:49:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:49:09Speaker 01

  But you, oh, cause I guess Anna and I recently had said like, yeah, we like barely get our teeth, go to the dentist.

• 1:49:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:15Speaker 01

  And he goes to the dentist regularly.

• 1:49:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:18Speaker 01

  And for a real cleaning and you should go like, look, you should go to the dentist, right?

• 1:49:22Dax Shepard?

  Everyone will put in the comments, uh, brain infection. We know, we know, we know.

• 1:49:26Speaker 01

  And heart disease, like, yes.

• 1:49:27Dax Shepard?

  Infections, we know. Uh, 80% of diseases emanate from the mouth.

• 1:49:31Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:49:31Dax Shepard?

  Got it.

• 1:49:31Speaker 01

  That's, they do. We should be getting our teeth cleaned every six months and we're not doing it. And, um, so for him, he was like, that's worse. And he said, he said, that's worse. That's more disgusting. So I didn't know where everyone landed. I mean, I did feel like you probably were on my side about this.

• 1:49:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:49:52Speaker 01

  Cause you also don't get your teeth cleaned and you don't have skid marks.

• 1:49:54Dax Shepard?

  Nothing really bums me out, as you know.

• 1:49:57Speaker 01

  Sure. Yeah, you're down with anything.

• 1:49:59Dax Shepard?

  I'm pretty much down with everything. But if you saw a big skid mark.

• 1:50:04Speaker 01

  I can't.

• 1:50:05Dax Shepard?

  As you were taking someone's garments off.

• 1:50:07Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:50:08Dax Shepard?

  Just before you were perhaps going to.

• 1:50:11Speaker 01

  Be down there.

• 1:50:12Dax Shepard?

  Be down there.

• 1:50:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:13Dax Shepard?

  You know, I don't know. It's not, it's not the, what you want to see immediately before. You might go, let's reschedule this portion of it.

• 1:50:24Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay. Okay. That one, one question I had that I was excited to hear about was, so we were gone for, I guess, five days.

• 1:50:30Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:50:31Dax Shepard?

  They were. I was gone for longer. I was in Austin. You remarked that. You and Anna were neighbors.

• 1:50:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:36Dax Shepard?

  So Anna was staying here at the house.

• 1:50:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:50:39Dax Shepard?

  What was that like to be neighbors?

• 1:50:40Speaker 01

  She didn't come over.

• 1:50:41Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:50:42Speaker 01

  And I didn't go over.

• 1:50:43Dax Shepard?

  Oh, what?

• 1:50:44Speaker 01

  I know. I thought it was annoying too. No, no, she had family in town.

• 1:50:49Dax Shepard?

  Oh, she did?

• 1:50:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was the whole, she had.

• 1:50:51Dax Shepard?

  Was she planning a big family reunion at my house while?

• 1:50:54Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. I'm not, she's gonna be like angry at me that, um, I'm sure, I think, I'm sure she asked Kristen. Anyway, the, she had two cousins in town. And so she had like plans with them. And so she didn't, and like one day I was outside in my, on my beautiful deck. And Jess was there and we FaceTimed her and I was like, come over, like bring your, just come over.

• 1:51:23Dax Shepard?

  Bring your whole family reunion.

• 1:51:25Speaker 01

  Oh, we're like gonna get in the, I'm like, what? And then Jess was like, well, we could go over there. And then I said, I don't, I don't want to go over there when, when Dax and Kristen aren't there. I feel kind of weird about it for some reason. And so then we just never saw each other. He, she came over.

• 1:51:43Dax Shepard?

  It's funny you'd say that because I remembered I wanted to ask you about this on the, this program.

• 1:51:49Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 1:51:49Dax Shepard?

  I want to see like, what was like being neighbors? Was it fun?

• 1:51:51Speaker 01

  Right. No.

• 1:51:53Dax Shepard?

  And then I, when I was, I knew I wanted to ask that. It sounds fun. Um, because you guys hang so much.

• 1:51:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:51:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And then I thought, what if she came over and went in the sauna?

• 1:52:02Speaker 01

  You'd be mad.

• 1:52:03Dax Shepard?

  Then I was like, yeah, I think I've invited you like five times to come in the sauna. And you haven't. And then I go out of town and then Anna invites you and then you go. That crossed my, that crossed my mind. I was like,

• 1:52:14Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:52:14Dax Shepard?

  Well, I might feel like a little hurt. Like, oh, you're not going to come over when I invite you. But when Anna invites you, you go over. Yeah.

• 1:52:23Speaker 01

  Well, I didn't.

• 1:52:24Dax Shepard?

  Right? Like, what if you had invited me, uh, over for breakfast like five times at your house? I don't, I can't go for all these reasons. And then Aaron's staying at your house and he invites me over for breakfast. I'm like, yeah, I'll be there in five.

• 1:52:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:37Dax Shepard?

  Right? No.

• 1:52:38Speaker 01

  I don't actually know if I would because it'd be one thing if I never came over here. I come over here. I'm here every day.

• 1:52:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:52:48Speaker 01

  So, you know, I think that's a little different, maybe. Because if you came over to my house all the time, but you just weren't coming over for breakfast.

• 1:52:57Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:52:58Speaker 01

  And then Aaron was staying at my house and he invited you for breakfast. I think I'd be like, oh, it just worked out timing wise.

• 1:53:05Dax Shepard?

  But also you have somehow breakfast has to include like, I got a brand new, very special breakfast nook. Like I got a very cool sauna and I love how social it can be.

• 1:53:17Speaker 01

  Oh, okay. I'll come over.

• 1:53:19Dax Shepard?

  And then you don't come and then, and then I leave and then you're like, hey, you call on and you're like, dude, I'm dying to go.

• 1:53:25Speaker 01

  I've been dying to get in that sauna. I just like.

• 1:53:27Dax Shepard?

  The X is gone, so let's.

• 1:53:29Speaker 01

  No, like, okay, let's pull back the curtain.

• 1:53:35Speaker 01

  I feel like you guys can invite me over way more.

• 1:53:42Dax Shepard?

  Maybe just not to sauna.

• 1:53:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, you never, you never invite me. You only invite me over to sauna and it's like.

• 1:53:48Dax Shepard?

  That's all I do.

• 1:53:49Speaker 01

  Right. But it's like, that's so sweaty.

• 1:53:51Dax Shepard?

  I can tell you my evenings, the exact, just like my breakfast and my, you know, my, my evening is the exact same every single night. I sauna at five o'clock. I cold plunge. I get in the hot tub with the girls. I hear about their day. Then we have dinner. We watch TV and go to bed. So the only time to be social in that scenario is the big sauna block.

• 1:54:13Speaker 01

  I guess you're gonna invite me over for dinner.

• 1:54:15Dax Shepard?

  You could come over for dinner. That makes a lot of sense. That's, that's very traditional, actually.

• 1:54:18Speaker 01

  I mean, like, I guess TV.

• 1:54:20Dax Shepard?

  TV's in bed, which we're already at capacity. We go into the room.

• 1:54:24Speaker 01

  I don't need to.

• 1:54:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, there's four of us in the one bed. It's already a little tight.

• 1:54:28Speaker 01

  Get it.

• 1:54:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So you guys never hung out. That's the point. And that's interesting.

• 1:54:32Speaker 01

  I definitely didn't go in the sauna. Do not worry. Uh, do not worry about that. And I'll come over to sauna. I just, you know.

• 1:54:39Dax Shepard?

  I just don't like the sauna.

• 1:54:41Speaker 01

  Well, I do like it. There's a couple of hurdles. One, you have to be in a bathing suit in the sauna.

• 1:54:48Dax Shepard?

  You could wear full, you could wear this outfit. You don't sweat. You could, you actually have the freedom to wear anything.

• 1:54:54Speaker 01

  I know, but like.

• 1:54:55Dax Shepard?

  Sweat.

• 1:54:55Speaker 01

  Well, I do sweat in the sauna. It's actually the only place I sweat. It's why I do enjoy it. I do feel good after because I've sweat.

• 1:55:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:04Speaker 01

  But you have to wear a bathing suit and that means you have to be well camped.

• 1:55:15Dax Shepard?

  Okay. And you won't camped is the, you don't want to camp.

• 1:55:20Speaker 01

  Well, okay, camping is tricky because I don't like to shave. It's like, that's like not.

• 1:55:29Dax Shepard?

  Let me make a pitch. Can I make a pitch?

• 1:55:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:31Dax Shepard?

  Bathing suit, boxers.

• 1:55:33Speaker 01

  Shorts. Oh, that's like so ugly, but oh, I mean, it's great.

• 1:55:37Dax Shepard?

  It looks great. And if that's how you like the sauna, you're even hotter for it. All right. Can I tell you the other tension in my head?

• 1:55:43Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, sure.

• 1:55:45Dax Shepard?

  So that's one battles waging the, my aging.

• 1:55:48Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:55:49Dax Shepard?

  Eighty-five percent of the time, who cares? Let's go. Bring on the wrinkles.

• 1:55:52Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:55:53Dax Shepard?

  Bring on the thinning here. Fifteen percent of the time, let's throw everything we can at this. Let's get a facelift. Let's do it all.

• 1:56:00Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:56:01Dax Shepard?

  I know. That's like fifteen percent of the time.

• 1:56:03Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:56:04Dax Shepard?

  Anyways, the other tension, and this is, I don't really, I don't know where, this is so confusing to me. When I'm in Nashville, I'm so happy.

• 1:56:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:13Dax Shepard?

  I can't tell you, it will make no sense to you, but I cannot tell you the amount of joy I get from doing stupid tasks around the yard.

• 1:56:21Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 1:56:22Dax Shepard?

  And in the garage, you know, with the cars and the boat, like I'm just so, and but I'm not, it's all useless, right? It's just like, I mean, it's not important. It's just like, it's just me staying busy.

• 1:56:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:36Dax Shepard?

  And.

• 1:56:37Speaker 01

  Gardening is good for like the brain.

• 1:56:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's good for me for sure. Cause like just to be moving and doing.

• 1:56:44Speaker 01

  There's like studies on that.

• 1:56:45Dax Shepard?

  I accomplish little things and I feel good about it. And then I stroll like I really am. Becoming friends with my neighbor Nate, who I really like a lot.

• 1:56:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:56:57Dax Shepard?

  And so like I'll stroll over to his house or he'll stroll over. Or this was my favorite part of the whole trip. His boat was stuck. His boat is on a lift that comes so you can take it out of the water at night. And he lowered it and our lake is a little low right now. So when he lowered it on the lift, it wasn't floating. He couldn't get it off of his lift and he wanted to take it in for service. And I said, uh, how about I hook up my pontoon and see if I can fucking jerk you out of that. Well, that sounded weird.

• 1:57:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, you jerked him.

• 1:57:22Dax Shepard?

  Can I help you jerk you off that lift? And, um, he was like,

• 1:57:27Speaker 01

  No wonder you like him.

• 1:57:28Dax Shepard?

  He's like, I don't, yeah, you think it'll break the, but I'm like, it wouldn't be fun if there wasn't some plausible threat of me ruining something. So sure enough, hooked up some ropes, fucking punched it on the pontoon and pulled the boat right off the thing. Glorious. What, I mean, again, what, nothing. That's not productive. And I felt like a champion.

• 1:57:48Speaker 01

  You helped someone.

• 1:57:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but I'm just saying like, it's not productive in the traditional sense.

• 1:57:53Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:57:53Dax Shepard?

  It's just like I got someone's boat off a thing, but it was like, I, we didn't know if it would work. I had to improvise. It was all very rewarding.

• 1:58:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:00Dax Shepard?

  I loved it. So yeah, I stroll over there, I chat with him. I'm like, oh, I'm gonna drive my dirt bike around the yard. I'm a dirt bike for, I am so happy. And then I go,

• 1:58:11Dax Shepard?

  what am I supposed to do in life?

• 1:58:13Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:58:14Dax Shepard?

  Am I supposed to work till 70? Or am I supposed to hang out and do that?

• 1:58:21Dax Shepard?

  And I don't know.

• 1:58:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:23Dax Shepard?

  I mean, it's a blessing. What a fucking enormous blessing that I could get to even,

• 1:58:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:29Dax Shepard?

  evaluate that.

• 1:58:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:58:31Dax Shepard?

  But it's an interesting,

• 1:58:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:33Dax Shepard?

  thing where it's like, and I also love, I come back here and I love what we're doing right now. And I love interviewing people and that's really fun.

• 1:58:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:40Dax Shepard?

  And being productive is fun and being engaged is fun.

• 1:58:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:43Dax Shepard?

  But man, that's really fun.

• 1:58:44Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:58:45Dax Shepard?

  And like at some point in your life, you gotta decide.

• 1:58:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, you gotta decide.

• 1:58:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:49Speaker 01

  I, you'll know.

• 1:58:51Dax Shepard?

  I guess I'll know.

• 1:58:52Speaker 01

  I think you'll just know.

• 1:58:53Dax Shepard?

  I don't know. I think you just have to commit to one thing or the other.

• 1:58:56Speaker 01

  I don't know about that.

• 1:58:57Dax Shepard?

  You don't know. Okay.

• 1:58:59Speaker 01

  I'll tell you, I had the complete opposite situation.

• 1:59:02Dax Shepard?

  Oh, tell me.

• 1:59:03Speaker 01

  You were gone and then, Also, before you were gone, we had a light week, very light week.

• 1:59:09Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:59:10Speaker 01

  And then you were gone. So we've had like two, oh, two weeks of like kinda not doing a lot.

• 1:59:15Dax Shepard?

  Yep.

• 1:59:15Speaker 01

  And yeah, I still have to edit. There's meeting, whatever. There's things. But the actual like us doing this wasn't really happening. And you know, I've been just like listening to this other podcast nonstop. But at one point I was like, oh my God, like we have to get back to work. I cannot do this. Like, and I was also in meetings, like we were, I'm in pitches and we had a ton of those. And at first I was like so annoyed. I was like, oh, I was supposed to have the week off. Like I shouldn't be, I shouldn't have scheduled any of this stuff. And then like, thank God I did. Cause I, I don't, I need to be working.

• 1:59:59Speaker 01

  Like I just am not good without that.

• 2:00:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:00:06Speaker 01

  So.

• 2:00:06Dax Shepard?

  But if you had gotten a part-time job while I was gone.

• 2:00:09Speaker 01

  You saw me at Maru.

• 2:00:14Dax Shepard?

  I don't know if this is a, I can't, I don't know if this is, well, you could tell me, you lived in Atlanta.

• 2:00:20Speaker 01

  I lived in suburbs though.

• 2:00:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's true. What I'll say is in 30 years in LA, it might be a, I don't know. I was very friendly with my neighbors in the one bedroom apartment for 10 years. We were very close together and we saw each other in the stairwell all the time.

• 2:00:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:36Dax Shepard?

  I went to the birthday parties, every, but since I've owned a home, so since 2006, 20 years of living in LA in a home. Neighbors here, everyone has a fence.

• 2:00:46Speaker 01

  Everyone has a fence in here.

• 2:00:47Dax Shepard?

  Which I'll be, I can defend, like, we was talking about fences with people in Nashville and they're like, just in general there, it's rude, which I get. It's like, it just seems rude.

• 2:00:56Speaker 01

  It's also different.

• 2:00:57Dax Shepard?

  Well, yes, my argument in defense of it is like, we're so packed in. You'd have to take all of Nashville and smash it into like, you know, four

• 2:01:05Speaker 01

  Not the same.

• 2:01:06Dax Shepard?

  Square mile thing.

• 2:01:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:07Dax Shepard?

  So when you don't have any space, yeah, you want a little compartment where you feel anonymous or not, where you don't see people.

• 2:01:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:01:15Dax Shepard?

  I think so. The stress of the city kind of brings, brings that out.

• 2:01:18Speaker 01

  It's a city. It's different. Yeah.

• 2:01:20Dax Shepard?

  Yes, um, it's just so different. It's like

• 2:01:23Speaker 01

  It's completely different.

• 2:01:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and, and, and I love, love, like, I already love some of my neighbors in Nashville. And I think it's so interesting.

• 2:01:32Speaker 01

  But I do think what's interesting is like, you can have that here, especially, especially here. This neighborhood isn't, is as close as you can get to that.

• 2:01:42Dax Shepard?

  LA is not very neighborly. I'll just say that. Like, it's not like, it's not like I'm sitting it out and everyone else is, uh, in the streets chatting. That's not the truth. I'd say I'm even maybe the high watermark in the neighborhood. Like, I am chatting with Pari and I, you know.

• 2:01:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:01:55Dax Shepard?

  And I'm starting a fucking, uh, hayride thing, you know, but it's not a neighborly city.

• 2:02:00Speaker 01

  It's not a neighborly city, but I actually think this neighborhood is fairly neighborly, so much so, this doesn't sound good for me. But I went on a long walk yesterday up Los, you know, I went like around, not in the neighborhood, I went out. And when I was coming back, I was like, which entrance do I go in so that I don't see anyone?

• 2:02:20Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:02:20Speaker 01

  I like, didn't wanna see anyone that moment. I knew, I knew I was going to, and I did.

• 2:02:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:27Speaker 01

  So like, you know, like, I actually think this neighborhood, I've, like, I've seen Casey, front of the pod, um, my new friends, uh, Pari, I saw Pari the other day, and then he, he was, it was really cute. I was walking, I saw him, we chatted. And then when I was continuing, I saw him, he was inside somebody else's house, like, he was hanging out with someone.

• 2:02:49Dax Shepard?

  He's very neighborly.

• 2:02:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, um, my neighbor, my actual neighbor, talked to them yesterday, like, it's, I feel like people are.

• 2:03:00Dax Shepard?

  So here's my, like, my question, but I guess I already have an answer because Aaron lives in a pretty liberal neighborhood. And his neighbors are, uh, very commingling and no one has fences and everyone's in everyone's backyard.

• 2:03:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:13Dax Shepard?

  But there's only two things I can observe that I know specifically. One is, it's conservative there and it's liberal here. That's like one thing I know about the differences from where I'm at in Nashville and where, um, And then it's more rural versus city.

• 2:03:28Speaker 01

  I think it's more that.

• 2:03:29Dax Shepard?

  And it's funny because those two things are related in general, like

• 2:03:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:33Dax Shepard?

  Cities are more liberal than rural. And I just don't know which thing is which, and I'm curious about it.

• 2:03:39Speaker 01

  I think that's why the suburbs are a good thing to look at because they're not rural and they're not city. They're like so specific and normally you do know like a couple neighbors.

• 2:03:52Dax Shepard?

  And they're they're a nice middle ground too, I think of super conservative and super liberal.

• 2:03:57Speaker 01

  Right. It's like more, yeah, I would.

• 2:04:00Dax Shepard?

  When you're in the, when you're in the country and the, you're a very Republican.

• 2:04:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:04:04Dax Shepard?

  And when you're in downtown New York City, you're very Democrat.

• 2:04:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're very, yeah, probably. And, and then, yeah, you kind of maybe don't know as much when you're in the suburbs. It depends on where you are, obviously. But yeah, like my county where I grew up is a blue county, went blue.

• 2:04:20Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 2:04:21Speaker 01

  So, yeah, anyway, um, and you know, like some of your neighbors kind of, but not.

• 2:04:31Dax Shepard?

  Now, I know the padmans weren't dialed in.

• 2:04:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:34Dax Shepard?

  But were you seen as you drove through your neighborhood, like a bunch of other neighbors in someone else's garage? Or did you see them congregating together? You were trying not to be seen.

• 2:04:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. Not really, like my very, very first house, um, when I was a baby.

• 2:04:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:52Speaker 01

  My dad, I feel like people would do that a little more and like my dad would hang out with the neighbor a little bit, but not, it's also if you have kids, it's different.

• 2:05:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:06Speaker 01

  Kids definitely go hang out with friends in the neighborhood and then that starts that thing, you know? So like, like my, one of my best friends who lives in Georgia, lives in a suburb and like her kids go next door and they come. So like, yes, if there's kids involved.

• 2:05:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:05:22Speaker 01

  I think that.

• 2:05:22Dax Shepard?

  But that doesn't happen at all in LA, virtually at all. I don't know anyone in our pod whose kids hang out at a neighbor's house.

• 2:05:29Speaker 01

  Well, no, Erica's, Erica's kids go down the street to the neighbor's house.

• 2:05:35Dax Shepard?

  Do they?

• 2:05:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then like they sometimes all come over to her.

• 2:05:38Dax Shepard?

  The Ridgsons don't and the Hanson's don't and we don't.

• 2:05:41Speaker 06

  Calvin's got a friend down the street.

• 2:05:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:43Dax Shepard?

  He does?

• 2:05:44Speaker 01

  Some people.

• 2:05:45Dax Shepard?

  And he walks over there?

• 2:05:46Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:05:47Dax Shepard?

  That's great.

• 2:05:48Speaker 01

  I think it just depends.

• 2:05:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:50Speaker 01

  I think it depends. But also, you know what's a big part of it? I'm just putting two and two together. Schools. A lot in the suburbs, you're on the school bus to get like,

• 2:06:03Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:06:03Speaker 01

  Everyone's going to public school.

• 2:06:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:06:06Speaker 01

  So the kids in the neighborhood go to the same school.

• 2:06:10Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yeah.

• 2:06:10Speaker 01

  And then they come and they hang out with each other and stuff.

• 2:06:13Dax Shepard?

  And they take a bike ride.

• 2:06:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, like you hang out. I mean, I used to in my neighborhood. My best friend Ashley lived in the neighborhood and we hung out every day. And I walked to her house every day and like, we went to this other girl, Kim.

• 2:06:27Dax Shepard?

  Do you think that's great?

• 2:06:28Speaker 01

  I loved it. Yeah, it's great. But it's a result of the school bus and school like it's, the problem is not problem, but some people go to all different schools.

• 2:06:39Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:06:40Speaker 01

  It's so scattered.

• 2:06:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I don't have any judgment over either side or think, but I will say, I do think it's nicer to be neighborly. As I've experienced it, I think that's preferred and just the little ways we're looking out for each other. Like there was a, a dog death.

• 2:06:59Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:07:00Dax Shepard?

  Of a, of a very good friend's dog. I get a text, hey, is it cool if we bury the dog on your property? Of course, we're gonna dig a hole. And now I'm going, that's not gonna happen.

• 2:07:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:12Dax Shepard?

  It's all granite. Like we had to blast, you have to blast anything. Like if you're gonna put a pool and you gotta blast granite. It's just all granite. So I'm like, yeah.

• 2:07:23Speaker 01

  Go.

• 2:07:23Dax Shepard?

  Go ahead. And in my mind, I'm like, they're not gonna be able to dig a hole out there.

• 2:07:28Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 2:07:29Dax Shepard?

  Um, but I'm not gonna get in the way of this their morning. What I just, I'm staying out of it.

• 2:07:33Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:07:33Dax Shepard?

  And then sure enough, they went over to, to, to bury the dog. And they had some pics and stuff and they were working for quite a while. And then my buddy Nate, whose boat I pulled off, he saw what was going on.

• 2:07:46Speaker 01

  Oh, and he went to hell?

• 2:07:48Dax Shepard?

  He's in construction.

• 2:07:49Speaker 01

  Oh, that's nice.

• 2:07:50Dax Shepard?

  And he had a little front end loader.

• 2:07:52Speaker 01

  That's very nice.

• 2:07:53Dax Shepard?

  And then he said, can you guys want me to bring the machine over? And, and he did. He spent a bunch of time digging a hole.

• 2:07:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's very sweet.

• 2:08:01Dax Shepard?

  It's like, it's so lovely. And then, you know, he can't get his boat off and I'm there and I say, hey, you want me to get you? Like, I just, it's very beautiful. It's very nice.

• 2:08:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's really nice. I do.

• 2:08:12Dax Shepard?

  I like it.

• 2:08:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. I, I don't think it can't be that way here. I just think it's not as, it's not as set up.

• 2:08:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, like, I'm not trying to say, oh, people in LA are bad or liberals are bad. I'm, I'm just curious on what forces create these different outcomes? That, that interests me.

• 2:08:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:35Dax Shepard?

  And I like this outcome.

• 2:08:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:38Speaker 01

  Well, you can also have a bad neighbor. And that really sucks.

• 2:08:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:44Speaker 01

  And it really sucks if you don't have a fence. Like, if you just have neighbors all over the place that aren't.

• 2:08:50Dax Shepard?

  If you're, if you're at war with your neighbor and you have to see them all the time?

• 2:08:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:08:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it can go bad.

• 2:08:55Speaker 01

  It can go bad.

• 2:08:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:56Speaker 01

  It can go bad.

• 2:08:57Dax Shepard?

  But I think that's the thing I like about it. It's kind of like relationships a little bit. It's like, you enter a neighborhood going like, these aren't people I picked to be friends with. I got assigned this, but I know we all live together. So I'm gonna have to be a little extra patient, a little extra kind, and all, all these things.

• 2:09:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:14Dax Shepard?

  And I think those are good virtues to just be practicing and have on display.

• 2:09:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. Just not everyone does it. And then it gets tricky.

• 2:09:21Dax Shepard?

  Okay, wanna do some facts?

• 2:09:23Speaker 01

  Um, oh yeah, let's do facts. I forgot. Okay, these, these are for Jennie Garth. So did the Shackley soup have, I looked up Shackley soup, because I was like, why would they?

• 2:09:35Dax Shepard?

  Going to the soup game?

• 2:09:36Speaker 01

  Right. But then they had like seven day healthy cleanse. Like, I think they're including the soups as like this overall health thing.

• 2:09:46Dax Shepard?

  Okay, that makes sense. Is the soups are part of a cleanse?

• 2:09:48Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:09:49Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:09:49Speaker 01

  Okay, I looked up her part in Growing Pains.

• 2:09:53Dax Shepard?

  Hmm.

• 2:10:05Speaker 07

  Couple of babes like them, have a shot.

• 2:10:11Speaker 07

  Yeah, hello.

• 2:10:13Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 2:10:14Speaker 07

  Well, uh, how are you two ladies this evening? Okay. Okay. You underestimate yourself.

• 2:10:25Speaker 01

  What's up?

• 2:10:27Dax Shepard?

  Oh, we're just buying a little paste.

• 2:10:31Speaker 01

  Sticky, sticky, sticky.

• 2:10:35Dax Shepard?

  Oh, she just said sticky, sticky, sticky?

• 2:10:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:10:38Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 2:10:38Speaker 01

  And then they walked away. So she was right. She did say hi first, though.

• 2:10:43Dax Shepard?

  So she had multiple lines?

• 2:10:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, she had multiple lines.

• 2:10:45Dax Shepard?

  Do you think they kept it under seven or five?

• 2:10:47Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 2:10:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, under five.

• 2:10:49Dax Shepard?

  Sticky, sticky, sticky, hello.

• 2:10:51Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 2:10:51Dax Shepard?

  They probably were surgical.

• 2:10:53Speaker 01

  Hi, sticky, sticky, sticky. Yep, four.

• 2:10:55Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow. For people who don't know, there's categories. You have to pay you a certain amount if you say over, I think.

• 2:11:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, under five, yeah. Uh, maybe it's changed, but the, um, um, okay, you know what's funny, though? So this was, you know, a family show. I loved it.

• 2:11:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:11Speaker 01

  This is how things have changed. Like, when he says, they showed the girls, there's a pop-up that says, two available girls.

• 2:11:21Dax Shepard?

  Babus Americanus.

• 2:11:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then, and they're like, doing like boing sounds.

• 2:11:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. You had to. Back then, you didn't know it was comedy.

• 2:11:33Speaker 01

  Okay, then they show him and it says, Dudus Hornius.

• 2:11:37Dax Shepard?

  Ben Seaver, Dudus Hornius. Ah, that's pretty good.

• 2:11:41Speaker 01

  It's funny, but it's that, like, that.

• 2:11:43Dax Shepard?

  It wouldn't be on today.

• 2:11:44Speaker 01

  It wouldn't. It wouldn't.

• 2:11:46Dax Shepard?

  I think they could bring that back. That's, that's pretty good.

• 2:11:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's funny. Okay, when was Beverly Hillbillies made? 1962 is when it premiered.

• 2:11:54Dax Shepard?

  Wow, that's an old show, yeah.

• 2:11:56Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Brady Bunch, 1969.

• 2:11:59Dax Shepard?

  Choice.

• 2:12:00Speaker 01

  Green Acres, 1965.

• 2:12:03Speaker 01

  And Bewitched nineteen sixty four.

• 2:12:05Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so all sixties.

• 2:12:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:08Dax Shepard?

  That's pretty wild.

• 2:12:09Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:12:09Dax Shepard?

  And I was watching, I was home from school sick in eighty two.

• 2:12:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:14Dax Shepard?

  So twenty years after the hillbillies were.

• 2:12:16Speaker 01

  And it held up.

• 2:12:17Dax Shepard?

  Really did. Also, there was no other options.

• 2:12:19Speaker 01

  Right, exactly. Okay, how old was Gabrielle Carters in nine oh two one oh?

• 2:12:26Dax Shepard?

  Ah.

• 2:12:26Speaker 01

  She was twenty nine. And then when it was over, she was thirty four. Or when she left, she was thirty four.

• 2:12:33Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:12:33Speaker 01

  So she was.

• 2:12:35Dax Shepard?

  She was older.

• 2:12:36Speaker 01

  She was old.

• 2:12:37Dax Shepard?

  Than a high school student.

• 2:12:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, she was playing sixteen.

• 2:12:39Dax Shepard?

  It's not weird.

• 2:12:39Speaker 01

  It's great.

• 2:12:42Speaker 01

  Great, it's great. Okay, we talked about shame and you said like, the beauty of of group therapy is that you say something like that you think is horrible, that you've done, and then, you know, people are like, no, that's fine. Like, I've done that too. Have you seen the movie The Drama?

• 2:13:02Dax Shepard?

  No. What's that?

• 2:13:03Speaker 01

  Zendaya and Robert Pattinson. It's out now.

• 2:13:06Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:13:07Speaker 01

  I can't say anything about this movie, like, at all.

• 2:13:11Dax Shepard?

  Everything would be a spoiler?

• 2:13:12Speaker 01

  Yes, but I recommend it.

• 2:13:14Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:13:15Speaker 01

  And it, um.

• 2:13:17Dax Shepard?

  It's called The Drama.

• 2:13:18Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 2:13:18Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:13:19Speaker 01

  And it flies right in the face of that concept.

• 2:13:25Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 2:13:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:13:26Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 2:13:27Speaker 01

  It's really interesting.

• 2:13:28Dax Shepard?

  Ooh, I wanna see it. Did you see it at the Vista?

• 2:13:31Speaker 01

  No, I saw it at the Americana.

• 2:13:32Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:13:33Speaker 01

  It's only an hour forty five minutes. God bless.

• 2:13:36Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 2:13:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:13:37Dax Shepard?

  Cause it's too intense.

• 2:13:39Speaker 01

  No, I just hate movies that are too long now. I like, can't do it.

• 2:13:42Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:13:43Speaker 01

  I was supposed to see Project Hail Mary. I really wanted to see it and we're driving there and I was like, I don't know if I can sit for that long.

• 2:13:50Dax Shepard?

  How long was that? I saw it, I didn't feel long enough.

• 2:13:52Speaker 01

  Two and a half hours.

• 2:13:53Dax Shepard?

  Didn't feel like it at all. Great movie.

• 2:13:56Speaker 01

  I wanna see it, but I'm not.

• 2:13:57Dax Shepard?

  Not gonna. Will you watch it at home?

• 2:13:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think I will try to watch it at home.

• 2:14:01Dax Shepard?

  It's being in a theater for two hours?

• 2:14:03Speaker 01

  I don't know why. I'm just like mad. I'm like, guys, can we please just get movies back to two hours?

• 2:14:09Dax Shepard?

  It's funny you say that. I think that's a very common opinion. But when I think of, if I did my top ten movies.

• 2:14:16Speaker 01

  Of all time?

• 2:14:17Dax Shepard?

  They're generally longer.

• 2:14:18Speaker 01

  Really?

• 2:14:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, Pulp Fiction's long. It's the number one movie.

• 2:14:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14:22Dax Shepard?

  You know, most Tarantino movies are long. Once Upon a Time is long. And I want more.

• 2:14:28Speaker 01

  I mean, Good Will Hunting is like.

• 2:14:30Dax Shepard?

  Ninety?

• 2:14:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14:32Dax Shepard?

  On the dot?

• 2:14:32Speaker 01

  Perfect.

• 2:14:33Dax Shepard?

  I wonder how long that is? How long do you think it is before you look it up?

• 2:14:36Speaker 01

  Okay, good question. I think it is, I think it's a hundred minutes, give or take.

• 2:14:42Dax Shepard?

  Okay, let's look it up.

• 2:14:44Speaker 06

  Two hours and six minutes.

• 2:14:46Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, two hours.

• 2:14:48Dax Shepard?

  A hundred and twenty six minutes.

• 2:14:49Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:14:50Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:14:51Speaker 01

  Two hours is fine.

• 2:14:52Dax Shepard?

  Well, this is two hours and six minutes. It's your favorite movie of all time.

• 2:14:56Speaker 06

  Twenty five minutes of credits.

• 2:14:58Dax Shepard?

  Twenty minutes shorter than Hail Mary.

• 2:15:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just can't. It's different. Also, now when you go to the theater, it's a full thirty minutes.

• 2:15:08Dax Shepard?

  Of ads?

• 2:15:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, when you're, from your call time.

• 2:15:12Dax Shepard?

  At certain theaters, yeah.

• 2:15:14Speaker 01

  At, at the Americana, it's thirty minutes. I, I've been testing it. I've been looking and testing it and I'm annoyed.

• 2:15:20Dax Shepard?

  That's nuts.

• 2:15:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:15:21Dax Shepard?

  It should start at the time.

• 2:15:23Speaker 01

  Start at the time.

• 2:15:24Dax Shepard?

  I don't even know how it works at the Vista.

• 2:15:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, they don't do any.

• 2:15:27Dax Shepard?

  They don't play.

• 2:15:28Speaker 01

  Previews and it's great.

• 2:15:29Dax Shepard?

  I mean, I guess I need to be sympathetic. It's hard to keep these fucking exhibition halls open. No one goes to movies. They gotta figure out how to keep them awake.

• 2:15:37Speaker 01

  I know, I understand, but.

• 2:15:38Dax Shepard?

  But it's annoying.

• 2:15:39Speaker 01

  It's this bad cycle though, because it prevents people from going.

• 2:15:42Dax Shepard?

  The experience isn't as good.

• 2:15:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:15:44Dax Shepard?

  You're right.

• 2:15:45Speaker 01

  So it's tough.

• 2:15:46Dax Shepard?

  Short gain for a long term loss.

• 2:15:48Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 2:15:49Dax Shepard?

  Shame.

• 2:15:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. So anyway, I would, I recommend that movie. I wanted, I would love to know your thoughts on it when you see it.

• 2:15:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I can't wait.

• 2:15:56Speaker 01

  Um, and.

• 2:15:58Dax Shepard?

  I'll see anything with Zendaya.

• 2:15:59Speaker 01

  I know, she's great.

• 2:16:00Dax Shepard?

  Well.

• 2:16:01Speaker 01

  She's great. Robert Pattinson's great in it.

• 2:16:05Dax Shepard?

  He's something else, isn't he?

• 2:16:06Speaker 01

  He is. I was like.

• 2:16:08Dax Shepard?

  He's a special dude.

• 2:16:09Speaker 01

  Um, anyway, check that out. Actually, don't check it out until they come on the podcast, then check it out.

• 2:16:15Dax Shepard?

  As a reward.

• 2:16:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:16:18Speaker 01

  Um, and that's it.

• 2:16:19Dax Shepard?

  That's it.

• 2:16:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:16:21Dax Shepard?

  All right. Well, I enjoyed Jennie Garth.

• 2:16:23Speaker 01

  Kelly.

• 2:16:24Dax Shepard?

  Kelly.

• 2:16:25Speaker 01

  I loved Kelly.

• 2:16:25Dax Shepard?

  Just really, at the height of my consumption of Beverly Hills nine oh two one oh.

• 2:16:30Speaker 01

  Could you ever have imagined?

• 2:16:31Dax Shepard?

  No, just truly, even if you try to explain all the, the little steps that would lead to that, I would go like.

• 2:16:37Speaker 01

  You'd be sitting across from Kelly.

• 2:16:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:40Speaker 01

  Asking her questions.

• 2:16:42Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 2:16:42Speaker 01

  Asking her questions.

• 2:16:43Dax Shepard?

  Never inappropriate. So well behaved. The universe waited till I could be trusted with the opportunity to talk to Kelly.

• 2:16:51Speaker 01

  Kelly's been through a lot.

• 2:16:52Dax Shepard?

  She has, yeah.

• 2:16:54Speaker 01

  That's a weird, when you said 11 share.

• 2:16:57Dax Shepard?

  No, it's not. Again, I don't, no one today can really comprehend, not a young person. They can't comprehend.

• 2:17:04Speaker 01

  That's so nuts.

• 2:17:06Dax Shepard?

  The ever-present and popularity of certain television shows in the eighties and nineties when there was nothing else.

• 2:17:14Speaker 01

  Totally different beast.

• 2:17:14Dax Shepard?

  There were CDs and there were four networks to watch shows on.

• 2:17:18Speaker 01

  Would 90210 have been like Emmy nominated?

• 2:17:22Dax Shepard?

  I don't think so.

• 2:17:23Speaker 01

  So what shows were like considered?

• 2:17:25Dax Shepard?

  West Wing.

• 2:17:27Speaker 01

  Back then?

• 2:17:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:29Speaker 01

  I thought it was, I thought West Wing was like more, I feel like.

• 2:17:32Dax Shepard?

  West Wing won the most amount. I know that Tommy Shalhoub won the most amount of directing Emmys of any director.

• 2:17:37Speaker 01

  But that's definitely like prestige television. I feel like that was like the kind of beginning of prestige television. But like 9020 feels before that.

• 2:17:46Dax Shepard?

  Thirty something was winning, um, you know, all the dramas still.

• 2:17:50Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting.

• 2:17:52Dax Shepard?

  Interesting.

• 2:17:54Speaker 01

  I want to look it up real quick. Who Emmy nominations, what year?

• 2:17:58Dax Shepard?

  Again, that's what's, that's what's happened in this, this upside down world, which is before winning an Emmy was less impressive because there was only seven comedies to choose from. There were 24 dramas, right? Now there's one, 150.

• 2:18:15Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:18:15Dax Shepard?

  And then conversely in movies, it's not quite as impressive to win something there because there's a third of his amount of movies to pull from. It's all upended. Now if you win an Emmy, like that's a shootout. Only surprised by if you win a Golden Globe for podcasts.

• 2:18:30Speaker 01

  Of course, I should have known, um, in 95. So that was in 90, 90 to a note, but you know, whatever. I picked 95. Yeah. NYPD Blue.

• 2:18:41Dax Shepard?

  Of course.

• 2:18:42Speaker 01

  Frasier.

• 2:18:44Dax Shepard?

  Boom.

• 2:18:46Speaker 01

  They were the winners.

• 2:18:47Dax Shepard?

  I think Seinfeld won a lot for the comedy.

• 2:18:49Speaker 01

  Right. But I guess, yeah, okay. It was X-Files, Law and Order. Law and Order would never be.

• 2:18:56Dax Shepard?

  No, it wouldn't be. That's a procedural that there's sixteen of them and it would never.

• 2:19:00Speaker 01

  And same with NYPD Blue.

• 2:19:02Dax Shepard?

  Although that one was a bit groundbreaking.

• 2:19:04Speaker 01

  Right. The X-Files Law and Order, NYPD Blue, Chicago Hope, ER.

• 2:19:10Dax Shepard?

  Now, I didn't consume both like you have.

• 2:19:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:19:13Dax Shepard?

  The Pit's better than ER, right?

• 2:19:14Speaker 01

  Um.

• 2:19:16Dax Shepard?

  Are they the same?

• 2:19:16Speaker 01

  I don't want to get in trouble. I think ER is better.

• 2:19:20Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:19:21Speaker 01

  Simple, maybe simply because.

• 2:19:24Dax Shepard?

  Bigger cast, more years.

• 2:19:26Speaker 01

  Yes, huge cast. The way they're shooting that show is like a movie and there's so many episodes and it's so hot, it's so intense. They're like, you know, coming in, in one room and moving into, it's like, it's a, it's so well done.

• 2:19:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

• 2:19:42Speaker 01

  And all the characters and like, the drama and the no comedy and so much AIDS.

• 2:19:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, plenty of AIDS.

• 2:19:51Speaker 01

  A lot of AIDS. Like, The Pit doesn't leave the ER.

• 2:19:55Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 2:19:56Speaker 01

  And they did leave the ER in ER.

• 2:20:01Speaker 01

  And I love it. Sometimes I went after The Pit, it immediately goes to ER.

• 2:20:07Dax Shepard?

  And you love it. Yeah.

• 2:20:09Speaker 01

  All right, that's it. Love you.