EP.245 - KATE NASH

Adam talks with Brit award-winning English singer-songwriter and actor Kate Nash about triumphs and humiliations in the music industry and the radical money-making strategy she's been relying on to keep her band on the road and herself out of the red. And bums. Kate also plays an acoustic version of her song Birds and Adam dithers over whether or not he should mention the Kate Nash parody song he recorded in 6 Music times. Conversation recorded face-to-face in London, 4 April 2025. Thanks to Séamus Murphy-Mitchell for production support and additional conversation editing. Podcast illustration by Helen Green https://helengreenillustration.com/ NORD VPN EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal https://nordvpn.com/buxton Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! PRE-ORDER SIGNED COPIES OF ADAM'S NEW BOOK https://www.waterstones.com/book/i-love-you-byeee/adam-buxton/9780008715427 FROM WATERSTONES KATE NASH ON ONLY FANS http://onlyfans.com/katenash PICS, VIDEOS & LINKS https://www.adam-buxton.co.uk/podcasts/rhwkafw2z2x3xe6-6ysb3-pfp9n-6xxa2-jnpn5-2cacw-6cz8f-gx8fb-nkb87-c6mae-bd5zy-yby4r-6392t-jf5tm-ph55s-cktl3-dsw49-r8ccg-sj9we-wzpe5-nzgjl-hn42k-r46sa-bp623-t4w8l-2pdd3-rbfnb-8hlw3-ayw78 (on Adam's website) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin. Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening. I took my microphone and found some human folk. Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke. My name is Adam Buckston, I'm a man. I want you to enjoy this, that's the plan.

• 0:31Adam Buxton?

  Hey, how are you doing, podcats? It's Adam Buckston here. I'm standing still at this point in the Norfolk farm track. And I'm being regaled by a chorus of birdsong coming at me from every angle on this beautiful, breezy, sunny morning coming up to mid-May 2025. Have a listen to this.

• 1:10Adam Buxton?

  It's like Bird Glastonbury out here, Doglegs. What do you think?

• 1:14Speaker 02

  I'd like to go back to the house and lie on the sofa.

• 1:17Adam Buxton?

  I know, Rosie, but we're gonna go for a quick walk. Come on, it's too nice to lie on the sofa. You've got the whole rest of the day for that. I'll join you. How are you doing, podcats? I'm very well, thank you. I got knocked off my bike yesterday, though. Wasn't hurt, I'm glad to say, and my bike was unscathed. But it was very shocking. I was on a roundabout in Norwich, quite busy, lot of traffic. And one of the cars joining the roundabout just didn't see me as I was coming round the edge and didn't stop, so hit my front wheel and my leg. But luckily was braking as they did so. So I wasn't badly biffed at all.

• 2:01Adam Buxton?

  Although the front of the car got a bit of a dent. Anyway, it was very lucky. And we were both shaken up, myself and the driver. And he stopped and apologised and made sure I was okay.

• 2:17Adam Buxton?

  And once I realised that I was definitely okay, we parted amicably, both relieved that it wasn't much worse. But you know, it was one of those moments when you, I wouldn't say my life flashed before me, but there was a moment when I realised that the car was gonna hit me, when I thought, oh dear, I might go under the wheels. And then that would be bad for me and the Brompton. But uh, thank goodness it didn't come to that. I felt quite emotional afterwards. I mean, I always feel emotional. It's been an emotional week. I've been doing interviews for the book, which comes out in a couple of weeks.

• 2:58Adam Buxton?

  By the way, obviously, plug for the book, link in the description to preorder copies. There's signed copies waiting for you to be scooped up at Waterstones, Waterstones, as well as my local independent bookshop, The Book Hive, here in Norwich. Anyway, for goodness sake, preorder if you haven't yet. Castle Buckles is depending on you. So anyway, yes, I've been doing interviews and you know, talking about the ridiculous things in the book, but also talking about the more serious themes of grief, losing my mum, that kind of thing. I need some media training basically, so I can just go in with some soundbites and do it that way.

• 3:41Adam Buxton?

  But the other emotional thing in a very positive way that happened to me this week was that I saw Tim Key and Tom Basdon's film, The Ballad of Wallace Island, which I got a preview screening of before recording a podcast with Tim and Tom, which was very good fun, a lot of stupid laughter. That's gonna be coming out in a few weeks. But the film was great. I loved it. So much heart. It's about a lottery winner played by Tim, who lives on a remote island and pays for his favourite folk duo to reform and play him a private gig on his island.

• 4:23Adam Buxton?

  And the folk duo were once a couple as well, but they split up. They're played by Tom Basdon and Carey Mulligan.

• 4:33Adam Buxton?

  As Maguire Mortimer. Anyway, it's very funny and it's got so much heart. I loved it. If I hadn't loved it, I would have done the podcast with Tim and Tom anyway, but I just would have found other things to talk about. As it was, I was in the happy position of being able to gush genuinely about it. And I really recommend it when it comes out in two or three weeks' time, I think. Okay, apologies for the extended top waffle there. Let me tell you a bit about podcast number two hundred and forty-five now, which features a rambling chat with English singer-songwriter and actor Kate Marie Nash.

• 5:17Adam Buxton?

  She of the distinctive indie pop sound and candid lyricism. Remember when she emerged from the vibrant UK music scene of the mid-two thousands? And quickly garnered attention with her two thousand and seven debut album Made of Bricks, which featured the hit single Foundations and showcased her unique blend of wit and emotional depth? Of course you do. She was one of the people that defined that era in music.

• 5:46Adam Buxton?

  The birds, they are going for it today, doglegs. Anyway, last year, twenty twenty-four, Kate released her fifth studio album, Nine Sad Symphonies. But in addition to her music, she's carved out a successful acting career, most notably featuring in the acclaimed Netflix comedy drama series Glow between twenty seventeen and twenty nineteen, alongside co-stars that included Alison Brie, Ruth Wilder, and American comedian and podcaster Mark Maron. So those are the Kate Nash headlines. But when I recorded a conversation with Kate face-to-face in London in early April of this year, twenty twenty-five,

• 6:26Adam Buxton?

  we went behind the headlines to hear about the reality of Kate's ups and downs in the music industry and how she was able to march on through setbacks that have included being dropped from her label after her second album and facing financial ruin and lengthy legal proceedings in twenty fourteen following the discovery that her manager had been stealing from her. Kate also told me, in typically straightforward terms, about the reality of the modern music industry for someone in her position, and the radical money-making strategy, that's how I would characterise it, she might disagree. Anyway, it's a strategy she's been relying on to keep her band on the road and herself out of the red.

• 7:11Adam Buxton?

  Now, if you're one of the people that used to listen to me and Joe Cornish on Six Music back at the end of the 2000s, you may remember that I recorded a Kate Nash parody song as part of one of our Song Wars battles. And even after Kate had arrived for our recording with PR person Sinead, who had set up the meeting, thank you Sinead, I was still dithering about whether or not to mention my song in case it made things weird. So which way do you think it went? Tough one, isn't it? I'll be back at the end for a tiny bit more waffle, but right now, with Kate Nash, here we go.

• 8:28Speaker 03

  I'm really excited to be doing this.

• 8:30Adam Buxton?

  Ah, it's nice to have you.

• 8:31Speaker 03

  I feel slightly starstruck by you.

• 8:33Adam Buxton?

  Quite right.

• 8:33Speaker 03

  Which I don't actually feel about, like, anyone, really.

• 8:36Adam Buxton?

  Oh, well, that's a very nice way to begin. Did you ever used to listen to me and Joe on the radio in the old days?

• 8:43Speaker 03

  I, I did, yeah. I haven't heard your parody of me.

• 8:46Adam Buxton?

  Oh.

• 8:47Speaker 03

  But I know that you did one.

• 8:49Adam Buxton?

  Well.

• 8:49Speaker 03

  Itchy bum or something.

• 8:50Adam Buxton?

  Joe's was called Itchy Bum. Mine was called Bums and Binge Drinking.

• 8:55Speaker 03

  Sounds like my youth, yeah.

• 8:57Adam Buxton?

  I mean, it's, it was, I was riffing on some of the themes on... Made of bricks.

• 9:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:02Adam Buxton?

  But.

• 9:03Speaker 03

  No, it sounds actually like it could have been on the album.

• 9:06Adam Buxton?

  Well, maybe I'll play it to you at the end.

• 9:08Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 9:09Adam Buxton?

  Would that be okay? Or would you feel weird about that?

• 9:11Speaker 03

  I think I'll feel okay about it.

• 9:14Adam Buxton?

  Well, maybe we should just see how you feel.

• 9:16Speaker 03

  At the end, yeah.

• 9:17Adam Buxton?

  By the end of the conversation.

• 9:18Speaker 03

  Let's see how the conversation goes.

• 9:20Adam Buxton?

  You might end up going fuck you and stick your stupid song up your ass and I never wanna see you again. Okay, I only ask because I talked to Robbie Williams once on the podcast.

• 9:33Speaker 03

  I listened to that episode, yeah.

• 9:34Adam Buxton?

  What did you think of that?

• 9:35Speaker 03

  I felt, I actually feel about your interviews, I feel like when I'm thinking, oh, I kind of wanna know this thing, I feel like you ask it or you approach it from a way where the listener is like thinking the same thing and wants to kind of know. And I feel like you did it from a place of like, it was kind of weird, right? Cause he hit you up being like, I'm a fan, I wanna do this or something.

• 9:55Adam Buxton?

  It was a lockdown thing. I think he was bored and.

• 9:57Speaker 03

  He was into you and.

• 9:58Adam Buxton?

  He started listening, maybe through John Ronson, who is a friend.

• 10:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:02Adam Buxton?

  And I like John as well. The thing I worried about actually was that I was a bit rude to him, or not rude, but.

• 10:09Speaker 03

  No, you didn't come off rude.

• 10:11Adam Buxton?

  I thought maybe it was not cool to play him my parody of um Rude Box, which I played at the end.

• 10:18Speaker 03

  Did he like it or not?

• 10:19Adam Buxton?

  I couldn't tell. I mean, it was, it, I, as I was playing it, I thought, well, I'm putting you in an impossible situation.

• 10:24Speaker 03

  Mm, mm, mm.

• 10:25Adam Buxton?

  Because you have to be a good sport about it, otherwise you might, you might sound a bit precious.

• 10:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:31Adam Buxton?

  So that wasn't really okay of me, I thought.

• 10:34Speaker 03

  To play the parody. So that's why you wanna play it to me.

• 10:36Adam Buxton?

  Well, no, that's why I'm asking you about whether I should play the parody to you because it would be a similar thing. I wouldn't, I would hate it. I mean, it was sort of affectionately done.

• 10:46Speaker 03

  Mm, mm, mm.

• 10:47Adam Buxton?

  But I would hate it if you were offended by it.

• 10:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think, okay, it's interesting because I think like, had you played it to me 10 years ago, I might not have been able to handle it because there was a lot of trauma in those years in my career. And like when you're 17, 18 and you do get like bullied by the media for a variety of reasons, from your music to the way you look and like all these things. And then you have like the public who are like, you're this one thing. And you've never like been that anything else in terms of like mainstream success, other than that thing to me. So I'll constantly remind you of that. And like that can be like a weird relationship. You have to basically redefine what success means to you and your self esteem and like

• 11:36Speaker 03

  how the world views you and how you view yourself. And I feel at this point, I've kind of overcome a lot of that. So I feel like I could listen to a parody of myself by someone that I like and think is funny. Do you know what I mean?

• 11:51Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, you put it very well. Okay, well, let's take that journey.

• 11:54Speaker 03

  Let's go back into the trauma.

• 11:59Adam Buxton?

  And you know, of course, if there's anything that you are sick of talking about. Or you just say, I feel like I've.

• 12:05Speaker 03

  I will, yeah, if I don't want to answer something, I wouldn't say.

• 12:07Adam Buxton?

  All right, good.

• 12:08Speaker 03

  I'll tell, I'll be, I'll be truthful.

• 12:11Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, please.

• 12:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:12Adam Buxton?

  From my point of view, as someone who wangs on quite a lot about the internet and how shit it is.

• 12:19Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 12:19Adam Buxton?

  And how horrible it is.

• 12:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:21Adam Buxton?

  As well as appreciating the fact that, of course, it's lots of fun in lots of ways and it has been useful for me in my career in some ways, but it's been central to yours.

• 12:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:31Adam Buxton?

  And I'm interested in that and your relationship. What was your first interaction with social media back in the day?

• 12:39Speaker 03

  I remember my friend Wesley at the Brit School showed me, oh. Was it called like Friendstar or something? It was before MySpace, it was before.

• 12:50Adam Buxton?

  Was it even Friendster?

• 12:51Speaker 03

  Friendster, I don't know, one of those. And he was like, have you heard of Friendster? And I was like, no. And then he made me, he's like, we're gonna make a profile and I was like, okay. Made me one and he was like, and I was like, so what do you do? And he was like, well, you just like chat to people on there and I was like, why?

• 13:11Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 13:12Speaker 03

  Like, I didn't understand at all. I barely used it, but it was MySpace that was my in to that world because I was like the perfect age for that period of time. MySpace, I think, is one of the best moments in music history ever. Because it was just kids like running everything. Kids were just picking a song for your profile and it was all identity. So it was like, this is what I'm into, this is what I like, this is how I want to look. And you could kind of build this image of yourself. And then kids were just kind of meeting up at club nights, but it was all associated with music. Music was really important to MySpace. And it's kind of insane. There was no one from the industry in charge at all.

• 13:53Speaker 03

  Kids were just playing stuff and like, there was no algorithm, like, people were not finding stuff because the industry went, oh, here's like fifty grand into this campaign or like, it was just kids, like, just finding music, liking it, playing it, putting it on their profile and it was really fun for discovering bands and new artists and it was just like a great discovery tool. It was really fun.

• 14:13Adam Buxton?

  How old were you at that point?

• 14:14Speaker 03

  Sixteen, seventeen, I think I was sixteen when I started.

• 14:18Adam Buxton?

  And you were at the Brit School?

• 14:20Speaker 03

  I was at the Brit School. I think I was like finishing the Brit School.

• 14:22Adam Buxton?

  How'd you get into the Brit School? Can anyone go to the Brit School?

• 14:25Speaker 03

  It's a free performing arts school. When I went, it was the only free performing arts school in the country. I'm not sure if that's still true, but it is free. And you audition, you apply, you write like, you fill in a form, you do a cover letter and then you audition.

• 14:38Adam Buxton?

  And you wanted to go because you wanted to be a singer, a performer?

• 14:43Speaker 03

  I actually went to do theatre there, yeah. I was kind of toying between like music and theatre and I went down the theatre route. And I'm really glad that I did because I think that really shaped me actually as a songwriter and that's why Made of Bricks is so much like storytelling and you know, cause it was kind of wrapped up in that theatre world.

• 14:57Adam Buxton?

  Right. Were loads of other people doing the MySpace thing there as well?

• 15:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, so we were just on there as kind of teenagers, like socialising and I guess like leaving the Brit School and I think it was probably in my last year of the Brit School that I went, I created that profile and yeah, it must have been because I was working, I was like working in Nando's and I remember like writing songs when I was working in Nando's and I did, I got rejected from drama school and from university. I didn't get into in anywhere.

• 15:23Adam Buxton?

  I'm sorry.

• 15:24Speaker 03

  It was, yeah, I was sad about it at the time, but I I started writing songs and thinking like I need to do something because I'm just working in like a chicken shop.

• 15:35Adam Buxton?

  And then you broke your foot.

• 15:37Speaker 03

  I did.

• 15:37Adam Buxton?

  And you were forced to convalesce. This is the official narrative.

• 15:41Speaker 03

  It is and I, I, the timeline's a bit funny, but basically I broke my foot and got my last rejection letter. I was in Nando's, I had a heart condition.

• 15:48Adam Buxton?

  Did you?

• 15:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:49Adam Buxton?

  Yes, that's right.

• 15:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I had to have heart surgery.

• 15:53Adam Buxton?

  And you wrote death proof off the back of it?

• 15:55Speaker 03

  I wrote death proof, yeah, about that.

• 15:57Adam Buxton?

  What was wrong with your heart?

• 15:58Speaker 03

  I had like a tachycardia, like an extra like thing that my heart.

• 16:02Adam Buxton?

  Too groovy?

• 16:03Speaker 03

  Too groovy.

• 16:04Adam Buxton?

  Too many beats?

• 16:04Speaker 03

  And, yeah. And it would kind of get stuck on this like little diggity diggity diggity and I would get these palpitations.

• 16:10Adam Buxton?

  Oh scary, was it scary?

• 16:12Speaker 03

  It was quite scary, yeah. I got it like lasered off, like laser surgery.

• 16:16Adam Buxton?

  Laser heart surgery?

• 16:17Speaker 03

  Um yeah, they like make holes in tiny little holes in like the top of your kind of thigh crotch area. Both sides and they push tubes through your veins and you can feel it, you have to be awake. So you can like such a weird but kind of cool feeling of like feeling tubes go through your vein like painful. And then they just like set your heart on fire.

• 16:38Adam Buxton?

  Why can't they go in through the chest?

• 16:40Speaker 03

  I don't know, I think it's.

• 16:42Adam Buxton?

  I think they're missing a trick. Doctor Buckles says, go in through the chest, mate. No need to go up the thighs. What are you doing that for?

• 16:48Speaker 03

  I think it like just is like about not, you know, no scar and they kind of can feed everything through like the veins and go direct.

• 16:55Adam Buxton?

  What's wrong with the bum?

• 16:57Speaker 03

  That's what I've been saying for years.

• 16:58Adam Buxton?

  Yeah. Well, we could revolutionize.

• 17:01Speaker 03

  We'll get there.

• 17:01Adam Buxton?

  Okay. But that is frightening. And then you came out of it the other side, yeah.

• 17:07Speaker 03

  Quit Nando's and then I needed another job and I started work at River Island. And then I think between getting rejected from all of my universities, I had like a couple more Bristol Old Vic and a few things. I got my final rejection letter. I'd gone through that heart surgery and then I was like, I need to do something fun and I just need to do something. Creative, because all my friends are kind of off doing this stuff and like I don't just want to work in River Island. And so. It was around then I think I broke my foot and and that was a good thing for me because it gave me like negotiating time. And I was like, when my foot's healed, I'll book my first gig. And I worked on songs at home with my broken foot and I think I needed that.

• 17:49Speaker 03

  Like as like a, I don't know, just a moment to be like stuck at home and finally admitting like you're really bored, like even though you're really scared of a gig. It's gonna be better than being this bored. So it's time to confront the fear.

• 18:01Adam Buxton?

  And were the songs you wrote, many of the made of bricks songs at that point?

• 18:05Speaker 03

  Birds was there, definitely. I think nicest thing was there. Caroline's victim, which was my first single.

• 18:14Speaker 03

  I can't really remember.

• 18:15Adam Buxton?

  And did the sound, that very particular sound, was that present and correct from day one? Or did that evolve?

• 18:22Speaker 03

  I think it was in some of those, in a very basic record, you know, I didn't really have recording skills and I was just recording.

• 18:28Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, how were you recording?

• 18:29Speaker 03

  GarageBand on my laptop.

• 18:31Adam Buxton?

  Yes.

• 18:32Speaker 03

  And just, as I know you use, right?

• 18:34Adam Buxton?

  Sure, that's, that was my, the beginning of my.

• 18:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:36Adam Buxton?

  Incredible musical journey.

• 18:38Speaker 03

  I love your music.

• 18:39Adam Buxton?

  Thank you.

• 18:40Speaker 03

  It's great, but it is just like a really easy creative tool, it just made it really accessible.

• 18:46Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, that's right, because Made of Bricks came out two thousand and seven.

• 18:50Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 18:50Adam Buxton?

  And that was around the time that I got GarageBand, which I guess must have come out around two thousand and five.

• 18:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, I started in two thousand and six, I think. So my first gig was April thirteenth, two thousand and six.

• 19:02Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 19:02Speaker 03

  Really remember that.

• 19:04Adam Buxton?

  There you go. And who were you listening to? Like, what were your influences? What was going into those songs?

• 19:09Speaker 03

  I was listening to like Regina Spector a lot and uh Kimia Dawson.

• 19:15Adam Buxton?

  Ah, from the Moldy Peaches.

• 19:16Speaker 03

  Moldy Peaches. Um, when I started kind of entering the music world, there was just so many fun artists around. Like Jamie T was, I saw him like in a pub in Nambuka and like started seeing people around at different club nights, like Lily Allen or Adele I was, I knew from school and just like lots of indie bands and you just kind of start hanging out and kind of getting to know each other at shows and it feels like really exciting to be part, like I would go anywhere. I would just get on the tube and go to like an open mic night an hour away, because I was like, I'm just trying to like make this happen. Um, or like an anti-folk festival in Brighton, I was like, I'm going to get the train and then get the train home that night, you know?

• 20:00Speaker 03

  I was just really driven to be part of a creative scene.

• 20:04Adam Buxton?

  Yeah. So then you start putting up your music on.

• 20:07Speaker 03

  So.

• 20:07Adam Buxton?

  MySpace.

• 20:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, my negotiation with myself was like, as soon as my foot's healed, I'll like make my secret music profile public. And then I'll go to my local bar and book, try and book my first gig with a demo. I did that and. It just kind of started happening quite quickly for me. I think that MySpace window, I was really lucky to get in there because I just became part of that London scene and young people just liked my music. And so quickly, there was music lawyers and labels and publishers in my messages on MySpace, you know.

• 20:44Adam Buxton?

  So within a few months, it seems like you get you get a record deal. Is that right?

• 20:49Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 20:51Adam Buxton?

  Whoa. And how was that?

• 20:52Speaker 03

  I did a single deal with Moshi Moshi Records, which was really fun. I started like meeting. I got a manager and I think the first person that I got on my team was a lawyer, which I was, you know, like, I don't even know why I would need a lawyer. But I got one because lawyers are like, you need a lawyer. And I guess because they know you're going to be dealing with contracts and stuff soon, they're trying to kind of lawyers, I think, get in there early. And I got a publishing deal first, which was really scary because it was just like a, I had no, I mean, I was like seventeen or eighteen, like no, I was dealing with like Nando's and River Island style work contracts, you know. And then you get offered like a lot of money and this massive contract that you just don't understand. You try.

• 21:37Speaker 03

  But you can't because you're a teenager and it's really hard to get your head around that. I remember being really scared to sign my publishing deal. And I went to the loo and like hid in the loo and I was like, I'm just gonna try and call everyone I know and no one picked up. And I was like, well, guess I'm just gonna sign it then because no one's here to tell me not to.

• 21:55Adam Buxton?

  What did your parents say about it all?

• 21:57Speaker 03

  My parents are really supportive and I think they were also nervous because like I was, my publishing deal was more than probably. My mum was a nurse, do you know what I mean? Like she did not make a lot of money. So that's like a lot of money that is just suddenly thrown into your life and spent on records and promotion and.

• 22:17Adam Buxton?

  Was your dad around?

• 22:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, my dad, yeah. They still like come to all my shows. They're really supportive in terms of like being there, showing up, coming to gigs and they've flown around the world to see me and they always supported me like with hobbies and my sisters as well. My mum got really scared when it started sort of going. And like Amy Winehouse was around at things. I remember being with my mum somewhere like Paris or something and Amy Winehouse was on a TV show and it was like. She wasn't doing great and my mum got like really freaked out by that, I think. And just realising like she didn't have the tools, I guess, to teach me anything about it either. Cause it like, we don't have anyone famous in our family and it wasn't like, oh, this is someone who can look out for you. It was like.

• 23:02Speaker 03

  Oh God, this is actually a really toxic world that's quite crazy and scary.

• 23:06Adam Buxton?

  Were you wary yourself? Were you sort of thinking, oh, I've got to tread carefully here? Or were you just thinking, well, hey, I'll have those drugs?

• 23:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think a bit of both of like young and like, I really wanted this and I was. Excited. I don't think I was ever comfortable with fame. Like when I was younger and I was like, I wanna be a famous. Actor or I wanna be a famous musician or whatever. And then as soon as I was like chased by paparazzi for the first time, I was like, oh, I really don't like this. And I was, yeah, I guess, you know, you're young, you, everything was going really fast. I was travelling and just like drinking all the time and it like.

• 23:46Speaker 03

  You're just learning as you go and trying to perform and trying to, I mean, it's just a lot.

• 23:52Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, and you know, within a few months, well, the album came out, went to number one, it was in the charts for like forty weeks or something.

• 24:00Speaker 03

  Um.

• 24:00Adam Buxton?

  It was a big deal. You won a Brit Award the following year in two thousand and eight.

• 24:04Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 24:05Adam Buxton?

  You're on big TV shows, you're on Later with Jules, uh, you did all the big festivals, Glastonbury, Latitude, Reading, Leeds. Tea in the Park.

• 24:14Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 24:15Adam Buxton?

  And what was that like? Was that a steep learning curve to suddenly be on big? Festival stages, festival gigs, man, that has got to be one of the hardest shows you can play.

• 24:25Speaker 03

  I think it was numbing, a little bit numbing, because my goal, like when I was on MySpace, I was like. My dream is to play a festival.

• 24:35Adam Buxton?

  Mm hmm.

• 24:36Speaker 03

  And then, like you say, I'm playing every festival in the world. Like when your dream was just like, I wanna play a festival and then it's like, you couldn't really compute it as being someone so young. I would have a lot of fun. I had some really exciting moments. I understood a Brit Award, I guess, cause like as a kid, I watched that. As on TV all the time and there were certain moments I feel I could be a bit more conscious of, but. I don't even know how I feel looking back. I think it was just really quick.

• 25:03Speaker 03

  And I was really driven and I got things that I really wanted, but as a young person who was in an industry where people really take advantage of you. And I spent a lot of years, I guess, learning, A, I'm the boss, I'm in charge. So I decide like who my employees are and B, what I want. And C, like how to become really good at what I do. And that just takes time.

• 25:32Adam Buxton?

  Yeah. I mean, you were sufficiently confident that you didn't get crushed in the first couple of years, right?

• 25:38Speaker 03

  No, I didn't get crushed by everything that I've been through.

• 25:41Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, yeah. And was it fun though, playing those shows? And did you generally get a good response?

• 25:49Speaker 03

  I think it was. I I think I enjoy everything now so much more. For quite a few reasons, I guess. I mean, I definitely had fun. Like, it wasn't just like, oh, my god, it was just too much. Like, I wasn't like shy or overwhelmed, but I was overwhelmed sometimes. I remember playing Hammersmith and selling it out and being a bit like, I don't really feel anything. And I think I realised after that, I was like, I need people around me that I like. I'm gonna really enjoy this with. There's a couple of moments, I remember like this guy in my band, Jay, who did my first ever gig with me.

• 26:29Speaker 03

  He was the guy who like, you know, at Wembley Rugby Club, when someone was, we were all like fourteen, fifteen. We used to go to this like Wembley Rugby Club and watch metal bands and we used to go together, but we didn't know each other. And he would like jump in on bass when someone was like puking in the corner, or he'd be on keys, or he'd be on the drums. Like, he just kind of did everything, easygoing. And he was in my band from my first gig to like two thousand and maybe end of mid ten. And then he had to leave for personal reasons. He's still one of my really close friends and we still like collaborate now. Um, but once he left, that was like, you know, when something moves that you're like, he was my person. Of like goodness and like mischief and solidness. And then he left and I suddenly, everything was so visible of like, all these things are really wrong.

• 27:13Speaker 03

  And all these people like, no one actually has my back. And everything just felt really wobbly. And then I had one insane experience after a six week American tour. Where you're just levels of exhausted, especially when you're like drinking and all of that. I don't, I don't drink anymore, but it ended in a stop in Mexico. Where we did a Mexican show and then I had a TV the next day. And I was, this lighting girl who was really paranoid about everything.

• 27:43Speaker 03

  And she was kind of like covered in tattoos and like stoner, but every city she'd be like, this is a really dangerous city, man. And you're like, what is wrong with you? You're so paranoid about everything. And we got to Mexico, she hired her own security guard and she made us put our passports in the hotel safe. I don't do that. I do not do that. I throw my passport in my bag, it survives. And like I function in a sort of like chaotic mess, but it like it works. So we do the show, we do an interview, I do a performance, it's like eight P M. We're driving to the airport, we get in the minibus, I remember leaning on the window and I was like, I'm so happy I'm going home. Like, I'm so tired. Also, I don't even know I was happy to be going home.

• 28:23Speaker 03

  I had a horrible boyfriend who I lived with at the time, like everything was just like not great around me. But I was like relieved the tour's over. We get to the airport. And there's this moment where like you're at the airport and the tour manager's like. Passports please. I was like, oh my god, my heart just like sank. That feeling. And I was like, I don't have my passport, do I? I was like, I don't have my passport. My lighting girl's like, I'm gonna get my security guard to go and get the passport. And I'm like, okay. And then one by one, everyone gets on the plane. And my tour manager at the time hands me four hundred Canadian dollars. I have a credit card that's like out of date, doesn't work.

• 29:03Speaker 03

  And this security guard's coming and he's like, here's the number of like the A and R guy from Mexico that I didn't know. You can sleep on his floor tonight. And I'm like, what? And everybody leaves me. Oh no, they all get on the plane. Everyone gets on the plane and I'm crying and going, please don't leave me. Like, please don't leave me, literally crying. Like, I've never really done that. I'd, I'd, I would be crying. And they all left. And then I'm like, okay, what do I do? Like, you know, ten minutes later, the security guard arrives with my passport. And I have to figure out, I have to call someone in the UK, a friend. It's like two in the morning, he like wakes up, goes to my place to like.

• 29:48Speaker 03

  Gets a credit card for me from my apartment and like I figure out getting this flight to Paris and then I have to get the Eurostar back home and I eventually make it.

• 29:59Adam Buxton?

  Uh.

• 30:00Speaker 03

  And I was like, no food on the plane. I was just like horribly exhausted. And I get home and I had like one more tour at the end of the year. It was like December. It was like with a German band called Sportfreundesstiller, who are massive in Germany. They sing in German. And I was like, I'm bringing my sister and I'm bringing like this other girl and like this person. And I separated like everyone, dressing rooms wise. I was like, no one can come in my dressing room. So I was like so angry.

• 30:29Speaker 03

  And then the band were ma- really friendly and it was a really fun, like joyous kind of like little thing. But I pocketed kind of who I liked into these like dressing rooms and just kind of pushed everyone else away.

• 30:41Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 30:41Speaker 03

  I had one major fight in a corridor. I screamed at someone. I said, remember this day.

• 30:47Adam Buxton?

  Who were you screaming at?

• 30:49Speaker 03

  Someone in my band who I was like, I'm firing you after this.

• 30:53Adam Buxton?

  What have they done?

• 30:55Speaker 03

  So because I had done that, they were trying to like get revenge and my sister went into the dressing room to get something from my tour manager and they kicked her out.

• 31:03Adam Buxton?

  Uh huh.

• 31:04Speaker 03

  You don't.

• 31:05Adam Buxton?

  Don't.

• 31:05Speaker 03

  Don't fuck with family.

• 31:07Adam Buxton?

  Don't kick out cases.

• 31:07Speaker 03

  You're not in charge. Like the whole thing is my dressing room. Anyway, then I got home and immediately fired everyone. And that was like my first time doing that.

• 31:16Adam Buxton?

  Fired the whole band?

• 31:18Speaker 03

  Whole band and crew.

• 31:18Adam Buxton?

  Touring crew.

• 31:19Speaker 03

  I kept two people because my lighting engineer in the UK is awesome. It's the last time I've ever not brought her to the US. And a guitar tech who I just promoted to tour manager. And so after that, I came home and I was like, I want an all-girl band. Because my crowd is all girls and everyone has just like men on stage and I want girls to see like people that they could maybe be on stage and that changed everything.

• 31:49Adam Buxton?

  At that point, had you done your second album?

• 31:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think, yes, because two thousand and nine I recorded it, two thousand and ten it came out. That's the end of sort of like the, the.

• 32:00Speaker 03

  Not the toxic era, because there was more to come, but like when I was suddenly was like, oh, I'm in charge, like I can choose, like I can have people around to make me feel good. And like, that has made me be able to get through like all the other stuff that I've gotten through and have real support. And people who genuinely care about me and like wanna have a good time and love what we do and have over twelve years, I guess, of playing together live.

• 32:24Adam Buxton?

  I think it's amazing that you were barely in your twenties and making those kinds of decisions. And I mean, it's weird that you didn't have a sort of manager who could hold your hand and that you trusted and who said.

• 32:41Speaker 03

  No.

• 32:41Adam Buxton?

  Don't fire your whole band.

• 32:43Speaker 03

  I'll tell you the first time I've had that manager and it's two years ago.

• 32:46Adam Buxton?

  Hmm, right, okay.

• 32:48Speaker 03

  It took me a long time to find a manager who I genuinely trust.

• 32:51Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:51Speaker 03

  But like the, it's really hard to find people in the industry that are like, I think, good at their job, decent people, working hard. And like trustworthy. And I've had a lot of, I've had a lot of managers. My first manager was just a bit like. Doing coke all the time and like sort of treating me like a little pet girlfriend. And then they tried to shift me around a few people in the company. No one was really right. Then I went like off rogue with someone from who used to be an A and R and. And then that didn't work and I just have tried loads of different people. I think a good manager is essential, but you just. I didn't have one for eighteen years.

• 33:30Adam Buxton?

  How do you, like, if you could go back, how would you do that part of your life differently? Would, was there, is there anything else you could have done?

• 33:37Speaker 03

  No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't go back and change anything.

• 33:40Adam Buxton?

  Okay, but if there was a young artist who was starting out, a young woman.

• 33:43Speaker 03

  I just say, don't sign contracts. If someone pressures you to sign a contract, don't do that.

• 33:50Speaker 03

  Have the confidence to fire someone if you don't feel good. I, this is my only advice I think I can really give.

• 33:57Speaker 03

  If you feel like something's off, it it is. You know that saying, if there's doubt, there is no doubt. That changed my life. It's probably the best advice I think you could ever give anyone, because especially as an artist, like.

• 34:10Adam Buxton?

  If there's doubt.

• 34:11Speaker 03

  There is no doubt.

• 34:13Adam Buxton?

  What does that mean?

• 34:14Speaker 03

  If you doubt something, you're not doubting it for no reason.

• 34:18Adam Buxton?

  Oh, I see. I was confused because I was thinking if there's doubt, then yeah.

• 34:22Speaker 03

  There's doubt, but there's no doubt that you, do you know what I mean? Like, it's trust your gut instinct. Like, if you feel like something's wrong, you're not. Because like, right now, in this situation, I'm not like, oh, my god, like, something's wrong with Adam, like, maybe there's something wrong, you know, because there just isn't. So if I was sitting here thinking, this is quite weird, isn't it? Like, is this, is this weird?

• 34:42Adam Buxton?

  Mm hmm.

• 34:42Speaker 03

  Because it is weird. And I think so often in life, we're like, we need the evidence, or. I've thought so many times, like, I'll wait until I feel this is wrong, or I don't really know if I like that person, or I'm not really sure about this.

• 34:55Adam Buxton?

  Well, I guess it's hard for people to trust their instincts. I mean, I know I find that hard. And a lot of the time I do think. Well, this seems like a drag, but maybe this is just the price you have to pay to get to where you want to be. And I suppose that's what a lot of people would think in your. Position back then, in their twenties, early twenties.

• 35:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:13Adam Buxton?

  They would not have the confidence to fire the whole band because they'd be thinking, who fires their whole band?

• 35:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:20Adam Buxton?

  Um, what if there's nothing else on the other end of this?

• 35:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:24Adam Buxton?

  And what if I've thrown away my only opportunity to.

• 35:26Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 35:26Adam Buxton?

  Do something.

• 35:27Speaker 03

  You never have.

• 35:29Adam Buxton?

  Right.

• 35:29Speaker 03

  You just clear, you have to clear shelves to be able to put new stuff on shelves. It's the same thing.

• 35:34Adam Buxton?

  Mm hmm.

• 35:34Speaker 03

  You know, if you just go like, I'm not sure about this, I don't like it, I'm gonna change it. That's okay. You can just trust your instincts. I think that's. Really underestimated is like how you can just sense things.

• 35:45Adam Buxton?

  And then, after your second album, you parted ways with your label, is that right?

• 35:50Speaker 03

  Yes, they dropped me. I was told via text.

• 35:52Adam Buxton?

  Oh.

• 35:53Speaker 03

  By one of my many managers.

• 35:54Adam Buxton?

  And what was their reason for that?

• 35:56Speaker 03

  Don't know. I'd love to ask them. I guess my second record didn't perform as well as my first. I was. I mean, I think a bit of misogyny at play, like, I do feel like.

• 36:10Speaker 03

  I've seen peers not perform as well as their first records or whatever and still just get stay in their major label contracts. But at the same time, I wouldn't change the story because again, it just totally shaped me into who I am right now. So.

• 36:25Adam Buxton?

  And you bounced back very quickly. I mean, you didn't sort of spiral into depression for months and not do anything.

• 36:30Speaker 03

  No, I'd made the record already. I'd made Girl Talk.

• 36:33Adam Buxton?

  So that's album number three, where you're suddenly getting a lot more punky.

• 36:38Speaker 03

  That was like my rage punk breakup getting dropped album. Yeah, it was awesome.

• 36:44Adam Buxton?

  The NME said Kate Nash, this is their review of that record.

• 36:48Speaker 03

  Commits career suicide.

• 36:49Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, Kate Nash just committed career suicide.

• 36:52Speaker 03

  And it sounds.

• 36:53Adam Buxton?

  And it sounds amazing.

• 36:55Speaker 03

  It's a great headline.

• 36:55Adam Buxton?

  So they liked the record, but they were aware that, well, what are you doing? I mean, this is going to be hard for people to get their heads around.

• 37:03Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 37:03Adam Buxton?

  This is not like Made of Bricks.

• 37:05Speaker 03

  This is not digestible.

• 37:07Adam Buxton?

  So I watched a documentary about you, uh, named after one of the tracks from uh, Girl Talk, that album, Underestimate the Girl.

• 37:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:18Adam Buxton?

  Is the name of the track and the name of the doc directed by Amy Goldstein, which came out in twenty eighteen. And there is a part of that documentary in which you are playing a showcase in an ad agency. Is that right?

• 37:34Speaker 03

  Oh, my god.

• 37:35Adam Buxton?

  There's footage of you and you are you are doing your best to, I think, get sort of funding, get some influencer cash or something.

• 37:44Speaker 03

  Oh, memory.

• 37:47Speaker 03

  That's the most painful part in the doc for me.

• 37:49Adam Buxton?

  I mean, I really watched it and I was like, holy shit, that looks like a tough gig. I've done gigs like that before, right? But it's not the same as going out there and singing one of your songs on a little shitty stage in a canteen while people are having.

• 38:04Speaker 03

  Chomping salad and just completely ignoring you.

• 38:07Adam Buxton?

  Totally ignoring you. You haven't even got a mic.

• 38:10Speaker 03

  No mic.

• 38:11Adam Buxton?

  Turn up there to do this showcase. There's no mic. There's no amplification. You're expected just to sing this song for these total randos.

• 38:19Speaker 03

  It's pure desperation.

• 38:20Adam Buxton?

  And someone filmed it and it's in this doc. And I was like, whoa, that is fucking impressive.

• 38:26Speaker 03

  Low.

• 38:27Adam Buxton?

  No, but that is impressive. Like, I was like, holy shit, she did it.

• 38:30Speaker 03

  Do you know what? That is one of the worst gigs I've done. Me and my guitarist Ben, we always laugh about that because we're like, we have seen some shitty gigs. Like, we have seen some shitty gigs. I would play that totally differently now. And I treat stuff like, because you still, every now, I mean, I'm not doing like ad agency lunches anymore. But every now and then you walk into a situation where you're like, what's it gonna be? It's gonna be awkward. And uh, I know how to work those rims now. And like, make them less awkward and break that ice and just kind of, I treat it like a theatre experience rather than a gig. But god, that was a bad one.

• 39:11Adam Buxton?

  It was, it was brutal.

• 39:12Speaker 03

  It's so brutal. It's just so uncomfortable.

• 39:16Adam Buxton?

  Honestly though, but that was the moment in that dock. I just thought anyone who does that is to be reckoned with.

• 39:23Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 39:24Adam Buxton?

  Because I, yeah, as I say, I've done, I've done things like that and my worst nightmare would be that they would be filmed and, and put online, let alone.

• 39:32Speaker 03

  I know. I like, I still, when I watch that, I'm like, oh, it's like a sick feeling of just like weak, you know, but. But I, I think they all add to the.

• 39:41Adam Buxton?

  But it was, it was awful as well because you could see that you were unprepared for the reality of it. You had the very reasonable expectation that there might be a microphone. For your, for your show, musical show.

• 39:56Speaker 03

  God, yeah. Oh, it's so awful. It's so like cringey.

• 40:01Adam Buxton?

  Anyway, respect. And but around that.

• 40:05Speaker 03

  Worth it to gain your respect.

• 40:07Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, okay.

• 40:08Speaker 03

  All these years later, I'm like, finally it paid off.

• 40:13Speaker 03

  It's actually made it okay in my mind now.

• 40:15Adam Buxton?

  All right, good. I hope, I hope so. Around that time though, you realised that the bad manager was squirreling away cash.

• 40:26Speaker 03

  Mm hmm. It's actually happened to a lot of musicians.

• 40:29Adam Buxton?

  I'm sure.

• 40:30Speaker 03

  It's co- common. Happened to Leonard Cohen, didn't it?

• 40:34Adam Buxton?

  It's happened to so many people. They've turned around and gone through their accounts and realised.

• 40:38Speaker 03

  Really easy because, again, it's not my comfort zone and it's not my place of like running business and checking, like I have anxiety about money. Especially now, after being stolen from, like, you really get anxiety about money. So it's hard to navigate and that was a big lesson for me. But I don't know that I could have done it any differently because I was like just learning how to do that. Like I was so young to be trying to figure that that kind of thing out. But yeah, we did go to court and it was years of my life, like three years, I feel like the whole thing kind of took.

• 41:10Adam Buxton?

  Famously, you know, one of the most stressful things that can happen to you is actually.

• 41:15Speaker 03

  So stressful.

• 41:16Adam Buxton?

  Going into a a legal proceeding.

• 41:18Speaker 03

  Yes, and by then the money really was running out because I'd signed this, I mean, it was sad because like. I invested in myself, as I always do, for Girl Talk. And I spent that money without a major label backing and I went on that runaway train. And I got to the end of that and I was like, oh my god, we stayed on the tracks, like we played Coachella and Lollapalooza and we really did that ourselves. And then I signed this publishing deal, which by the way was a horrible publishing deal. Signed that and I was like, finally, like the tanks kind of refilled and I've got the security of some finances again. Like it all felt worth it. And then he basically, yeah, that all got spent by somebody else.

• 42:01Speaker 03

  And then I got a tax bill on that and I couldn't pay it because I didn't have it. It all just kind of collapsed there for me.

• 42:07Adam Buxton?

  You were out in L A at that point.

• 42:09Speaker 03

  I was in L A and I, I mean, my personal life too, everything was just such a mess. So then I went to sort of like a pro bono lawyer, so everything slows down because you just can't afford a lawyer, so you're doing everything for free. And I had to pay the tax bill, so I sold my flat to pay that tax bill. And then I was like at my mum's house, like drinking wine in bed and being like, oh my god.

• 42:34Adam Buxton?

  Yeah. No, me and mate, have some wine in bed. Definitely after that.

• 42:38Speaker 03

  I just need to be really still.

• 42:40Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 42:41Speaker 03

  And like no one asked me any questions right now because I'm on the brink. And I had a dog as well. I had like this rescued this dog and I sort of put her into like doggy daycare, long boarding. And I was like, let me go back to London and figure out what I'm gonna do. And I booked Glow.

• 42:56Adam Buxton?

  You booked Glow. So so at that point.

• 42:59Speaker 03

  I feel relief even just hearing that.

• 43:01Adam Buxton?

  Had you.

• 43:03Speaker 03

  Fucking god.

• 43:04Adam Buxton?

  You'd sort of wrapped up the situation with your manager, moved on from it.

• 43:07Speaker 03

  No, it was still ongoing.

• 43:10Adam Buxton?

  Oh, was it?

• 43:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:12Adam Buxton?

  It was rumbling on in the background. You're pretty much broke.

• 43:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:17Adam Buxton?

  And you went for an audition. You've done a bit of acting before, right?

• 43:20Speaker 03

  Yes, I had done, obviously theatre at the Brit School, I did a short film, I think I, I don't really think I'd done much, but I wanted to act and I had an acting manager and I had booked a pilot the year before called The Devil You Know, that was directed by Gus Van Sant.

• 43:39Adam Buxton?

  Oh, hello.

• 43:40Speaker 03

  Oh, hello. And just had this amazing time shooting this pilot. Really cool experience. It didn't get picked up, but the Genji Cohen was producing it as well and Jen Euston was the casting director, Genji and Jen Euston worked together. And so they were casting for Glow about a year later. And I saw this breakdown, it was like Lycra hairspray wrestling or something.

• 44:06Adam Buxton?

  Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling is the acronym.

• 44:08Speaker 03

  Yes, it is, yeah.

• 44:09Adam Buxton?

  And it's about the lives of a group of women who performed for a wrestling organisation in Los Angeles during the eighties.

• 44:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was a real show. There's a documentary about The Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling. It was a real show in the eighties. And it was the first time putting like lady wrestlers on TV and having like female wrestlers. And it became a bit of a kids' show really in the eighties, but it was also totally unhinged. They had like the good girls and the bad girls and they created this Netflix drama, basically Genji Cohen produced it.

• 44:39Adam Buxton?

  And you worked with Marc Maron.

• 44:40Speaker 03

  Marc Maron was on the show.

• 44:41Adam Buxton?

  The king of American podcasting, the OG.

• 44:44Speaker 03

  Exactly, yeah, Marc, yeah.

• 44:46Adam Buxton?

  How was that? He's an intense guy.

• 44:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's like, I, if people always ask what Mark is like, I always say he's exactly what you think he's like. Like if you meet him, I feel, have you worked with him or you've met him?

• 44:56Adam Buxton?

  I interviewed him for the podcast and he was, yeah, he was cool. In fact, he was more easygoing than I expected him to be. I was quite nervous. I thought he was gonna be super intense and I was worried I was gonna say one wrong thing and he would storm out.

• 45:09Speaker 03

  No, no, he's not like that. He's just a bit of a curmudgeonly grouch.

• 45:13Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 45:13Speaker 03

  And then he separated himself from us at the beginning quite a lot, but we all would just kind of hang out with him and like try and annoy him and get him to love us as much as possible. And he did, he did love us, you know, but um. Oh my god, it was just the best experience. It was like, even just hearing my life story back, I'm like, thank god she got a fucking win. Because I don't think I would be who I am now if I had not had Glow. You need wins.

• 45:41Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 45:42Speaker 03

  You need a win. Every now and then you just need a win. And to be unlike, I think I won TV. I'm like, that's the coolest show you could ever describe to me of like, booking a job. And like, I did it. I did Glow. I mean, these were like comedians. I hadn't really spent a lot of time around comedians. And like, we, I laughed every day till my, I had abs more because of laughing than because of wrestling.

• 46:04Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 46:04Speaker 03

  Like, these girls like lifted my soul out of the gutter.

• 46:08Adam Buxton?

  And then slammed it down onto the mat.

• 46:11Speaker 03

  And that feels amazing. But that really, that physical, like, force thing, like, really will snap the emotion out of you and like, make you feel really powerful. And it really, really rescued my self-esteem. Like, I really, like, thank, thank fucking god for Glow.

• 46:31Adam Buxton?

  Before that then, what was the bleakest you got? I mean, did you really feel, you seem like an amazingly, admirably positive person in every way. But did you at one point just think, actually, I don't know if I can deal with this? What did that moment look like?

• 46:48Speaker 03

  Um, I am like a forever optimist. Um, I think, I just, I don't really know, because there was like a lot, you know, over the years. I really remember being like, oh god, like, I wish you would just give up. Because like, no one's really offering you a hand, but why are you just gonna stand up and just keep doing this? Like, can't you read the room? Just go and be a teacher. It's not happening. It didn't work out. Like, you failed. Just do something else. And I'm like, I'm not gonna do something else. Like, I'm gonna keep trying.

• 47:27Speaker 03

  And you're like, why? It's really hard. And that was that sort of like, I just need to be really still and not break. And if I don't break, I can just carry on. I can laugh through a lot of the stuff that's happened.

• 47:42Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, that's amazing. I think that's so admirable that you can get through a moment like that and carry on, especially when. Yeah, when you're exposed to harsh criticism as well, were you across, like going back to the internet? What was your relationship with it in those days? Were you looking at stuff online? Were you across what people were saying about you? Were you?

• 48:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course, like.

• 48:06Adam Buxton?

  Because you were, another thing you did was use Kickstarter.

• 48:10Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 48:10Adam Buxton?

  To fund your fourth album.

• 48:12Speaker 03

  I just don't give up, do I?

• 48:13Adam Buxton?

  No.

• 48:16Adam Buxton?

  Well, I mean, it is so impressive. So you go and, but one of the things about Kickstarter is that it's not free money. Those are your investors. So you raised the money to make your album.

• 48:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:28Adam Buxton?

  Sort of a hundred and fifty grand or something like that.

• 48:31Speaker 03

  It's very scary to do Kickstarter.

• 48:33Adam Buxton?

  I'm sure it is.

• 48:34Speaker 03

  God, you just think, I'm not gonna do it. Everyone's gonna see I'm a failure. Like, I'm not gonna raise it.

• 48:38Adam Buxton?

  Then you, then you're sort of beholden to them. In some way. Was that not a scary position to be in?

• 48:45Speaker 03

  It was, but I was like, I need to shed. Whatever it is that's like, you had this made of bricks, like number one record and foundations as a hit and everyone kind of knew you were and you were famous and now you're not and you're not as successful because you chart at like eighty two in the charts and like. I needed to shed whatever it was that's like, you're a failure or you're a success and that's it. And I was like, my career doesn't fit into those boxes. Like, I'm an artist and I'm gonna just like keep doing this. And I remember this quote from Patti Smith that was like. Sometimes art, being an artist is like you make a record and everyone really cares about it. And sometimes it's like a poetry zine and no one's gonna read it.

• 49:26Speaker 03

  And I was like, just, just live it and don't worry about what people think now. And just know you're gonna, you know, you're gonna just die one day. So who, like, what the fuck? Am I gonna care what the fucking sun thinks of me or like some internet comments are saying about me? When people can go out there and like just spew a bunch of shit and then be like, I'm gonna cook dinner. Why should I live my life based on what other people like have decided I am or I'm not when I'll just be like dust and bones one day? Do you know what I mean? I know that's kind of a big thing to say, but it's like, why the fuck should I? And so you have to shed what people think and if you're gonna be a failure and if it's not gonna work out. It's like, don't really believe in failure. I just think like, I'm trying to have a life as an artist.

• 50:07Speaker 03

  And I wanna make music and I'll just like, just try to make it happen. And actually, isn't it great that I can do that? So it's like, I think everything I went through, like really rebuilt gratefulness, what I do. And I think that was like my path to being okay was like, I actually fucking love this. And now I'm actually like, way better at what I do. I feel really confident in my abilities to be a performer and an artist and a songwriter. And I, it's not about whether, you know, every now and then I can go in a pub and some blokes like, oh my god, are you Kate Nash? What's it like not really being as famous anymore? And like, do you wanna talk about that? I'm like, no, fuck off, I really don't.

• 50:47Speaker 03

  Like, there is a part of me that can still really get triggered by that whole perception of me, of course, just human. But when it comes to what I actually do, I know I'm good at that and I know I'm gonna keep doing that.

• 51:21Adam Buxton?

  Can we talk about your bum?

• 51:23Speaker 03

  We can.

• 51:24Adam Buxton?

  In recent years, your bum has become, and listeners, I apologize. I know you're thinking Buckles has gone full, he's gone full creepy sexist.

• 51:37Speaker 03

  It's warranted, listeners, it's warranted.

• 51:39Adam Buxton?

  In recent years, your bum has become a more central part of your work.

• 51:44Speaker 03

  Yes, actually, it's been like.

• 51:46Adam Buxton?

  Well, it was lyrically present on certainly Made of Bricks.

• 51:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:52Speaker 03

  It was all pre-written. It was all leading me to this moment, I think, yeah.

• 51:55Adam Buxton?

  Yeah. Anyway, so you tell my listeners why I'm asking that offensive question.

• 52:00Speaker 03

  Yes. So I put out a record last year. I finally have a good manager. I signed to an indie label. I'm signed with Kill Rock Stars, who are a really iconic, like, punk label, who I love working with. Across the board, my team are awesome, finally. And I put out a record last year. It's called Nine Sad Symphonies. And, you know, it's going like very well, but the music industry's in crisis, essentially, especially in the grassroots, but really, I would argue across the board.

• 52:29Adam Buxton?

  When has it not been?

• 52:30Speaker 03

  I don't know, but it does feel like it's coming to some kind of a head right now.

• 52:33Adam Buxton?

  And the nature of the crisis is, wow.

• 52:36Speaker 03

  Financial.

• 52:37Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 52:37Speaker 03

  Live music, listeners probably know lots of venues are closing.

• 52:41Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, post-COVID, it really bit.

• 52:44Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 52:45Adam Buxton?

  Because so many venues had to close.

• 52:47Speaker 03

  And loads of artists, you'll notice, cancel tours. And they might say, it's extremely difficult to profit from playing shows, also from your recorded music now, because like streaming is valued at about like 0.003 of a penny per stream.

• 53:02Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, you've got to have like billions of streams before you start seeing any money.

• 53:07Speaker 03

  Yes. And so that means that like a lot of people just can't afford to have music as a career. And they might have levels of success that you'd think warranted them being like financially good from it.

• 53:19Adam Buxton?

  So Foundations is your number one song on Spotify, and that's up in the 127 millions or something?

• 53:25Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 53:26Adam Buxton?

  Is there any, like, an appreciable amount of money coming from that?

• 53:30Speaker 03

  I hear that and I'm like, why am I not a millionaire? I don't understand, like, actually, I should be earning so much more when I hear that. Like, I just went to America and it's like 70 grand loss. I went to Europe, it's like a 26 grand loss. In the UK, I was like, oh, great, I'm not making anything.

• 53:49Adam Buxton?

  How many dates are you playing on those tours?

• 53:51Speaker 03

  Like a month in each. Well, a month in America, like 10 days in Europe. I mean, I'm doing a rescheduled gig in Berlin on Sunday and it's like a loss of thirteen grand. I remember hearing someone say to me, oh, we had to cancel that tour because it was going to be a hundred grand loss. And I was like, surely not. That's insane. And then I've gone on tour and lost seventy grand. So it is the reality. If you're going to travel safely and ethically, if you're going to pay people good wages, or be like, I can't have a band, I'm just going to do backing tracks. And some people do that. Fine, respect. Like, I'm not dissing that. I'm just saying like, this is how I want to tour and this is the show I want to put on. And I don't think it's unreasonable.

• 54:30Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 54:30Speaker 03

  And um.

• 54:31Adam Buxton?

  But the upshot is that you're filling the financial shortfall.

• 54:34Speaker 03

  I was in the middle of those tours and I had like five days. And I was about to start the UK leg and I was like, I'm really feeling the pinch and it's nearly Christmas and I want to pay all my invoices and buy my mum a Christmas present. And I'm like, how am I going to pay rent in January? Like, okay, I'll get my quarterly PRS in like March or when April maybe and that and I'll be fine with them. But what am I going to do for those three months? Like, this is actually, this is insane. This is my job, but it's also my passion project and it's really like making me financially bleed right now. And so I thought, what can I do? And I was like, maybe I could sell pictures of my bum on the internet and like start an OnlyFans account and sort of, could I do that?

• 55:13Adam Buxton?

  So you had a positive impression of OnlyFans?

• 55:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, I had never used it, but I was like, I know people that do use it to fund things.

• 55:22Adam Buxton?

  And they hadn't had bad experiences on there?

• 55:24Speaker 03

  No.

• 55:24Adam Buxton?

  Because the obvious, like, I'm coming at this

• 55:27Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 55:28Adam Buxton?

  as a fifty-five-year-old

• 55:30Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 55:31Adam Buxton?

  father of three, including a daughter that I wouldn't necessarily want to encourage to go on OnlyFans, right? That's my cards on the table as a kind of conservative minded when it comes to that kind of thing.

• 55:42Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 55:43Adam Buxton?

  person. I would be saying to her, well, is there nothing else you can do to earn money? And you're aware of all these potential pitfalls. There's the, there's creeps out there and a lot of them congregate around porn especially. And they're gonna, you know, your data's gonna leak out. People are gonna be unscrupulous with whatever you post on there. They'll steal it. They'll post it on other sites. They're not gonna pay you for it. Creepy guys are gonna be expecting to have engagement and.

• 56:14Adam Buxton?

  Many of them could make your life pretty miserable, you know, casual commentators, randos on YouTube are obnoxious enough and you want to encourage that with a sexual element too? I mean, that would be a nightmare as far as I would be concerned.

• 56:30Speaker 03

  I, yeah, I mean, I think I already deal with a lot of, all of that.

• 56:33Adam Buxton?

  Right.

• 56:35Speaker 03

  And actually, obviously, I didn't know what that was going to be like, but funnily enough, I have actually found it to be more respectful than like general YouTube music comments. And it's a kind of simple exchange. It's like, this is a service. You want a picture of my ass, for example, like I'm gonna sell it, you're gonna pay for it and then you're gonna like it. And then I can kind of set the boundaries. And, and actually I found people were really like, oh, what are the boundaries here? Like, can I say this? Or do you, can, is it okay? I don't really know. Is it okay for me to do this? And I'm like, setting those boundaries. You can, you're really in control of the whole thing. So for some people are going on there and like selling hardcore sex tapes and some people are, you know, there's a variety of things

• 57:20Speaker 03

  you can get on there and people are kind of saying like, it's okay to do this and it's not okay to do that. And I can like set all of those boundaries. There's two different ways to look at it always. There's like the human side where I'm like naked bodies are not offensive to me. Like naked is naked. Do you know what I mean? Like we're born naked. We all have naked bodies. And like, we use them for different things.

• 57:40Adam Buxton?

  I was born in a fleece.

• 57:42Speaker 03

  Were you? I can see it.

• 57:46Speaker 03

  Tiny law.

• 57:47Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 57:48Speaker 03

  Um, but like the body, the bum is a great example. It's like this perfect body part of like practicality. It serves a very good purpose. Also, it's kind of comedy. And it's also like hot to some people and it's like a sexual, it covers all bases, I think, as a body part. I'm really a fan of the bum. So there's that human side and then there's the side that like, women are treated totally differently in media in, in the world in so many ways. I'm thirty seven. I feel like confident about my body. I have experienced being nude before for entertainment. I find like getting my bum out quite funny.

• 58:27Speaker 03

  I just think like, the human body can be used for different things. And I am also making a punk protest that like,

• 58:39Speaker 03

  I shouldn't have to be doing this, actually. I should be able to be like, I wanna do OnlyFans because it's fun for me and I like it and like I wanna make extra money. Not because I'm like, I'm losing so much money through my tours that like I'm worried about paying invoices and wanna be ethical and like my industry is melting and no one's fucking saying anything about it. It's just not right. Like, we're saying, like, working class people, you can't fucking do this. Because you can't, you cannot. I'm so privileged to go, I lost seventy grand on a tour and I can do another, you know, thirteen grand loss on Sunday. That's a privileged fucking position and that's because I had made a bricks and I've carried on, I've gripped the fuck on, as you just heard, to my career and like made it financially viable for me.

• 59:23Speaker 03

  Um, it shouldn't be this much, it just shouldn't be this hard. And like, anyone saying to me, like, you're a bad example to young women, I'm actually fucking advocating for them, like, across all classes to be able to enter the music industry. Like, because they can't right now and the door is closing on them. So that's why I'm getting my arse out.

• 59:41Adam Buxton?

  Yes.

• 59:42Speaker 03

  So sign up, it's Kate Nash on OnlyFans, by the way. I'd love to get a few new followers.

• 59:48Adam Buxton?

  I'll put a link in the description.

• 59:49Speaker 03

  Great.

• 59:50Adam Buxton?

  And, um, maybe I'll post a photo of my arse as well. I don't know, if you want.

• 59:57Speaker 03

  We could do a collab.

• 59:59Adam Buxton?

  Do you wanna hear my bum song?

• 1:00:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's the perfect time for it.

• 1:00:05Adam Buxton?

  Before I play my bum song.

• 1:00:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, before.

• 1:00:08Adam Buxton?

  What are you doing with your bum on OnlyFans? I mean, what kind of things are people asking you to do? There's no uncreepy way of asking you that question.

• 1:00:18Speaker 03

  I, like, take pictures, I've done, I do different photo shoots, I've done like little videos, like, um.

• 1:00:26Adam Buxton?

  Do you remember Norman Sphincter?

• 1:00:28Speaker 03

  No, who's Norman Sphincter?

• 1:00:30Adam Buxton?

  My, my entry into TV was on a show called Takeover TV back in the old days on Channel Four in the mid nineties. And one of the people who contributed to that show, which was essentially a kind of public access program, was a guy who called himself Norman Sphincter and he would decorate his arse cheeks and make them up to look like celebrities.

• 1:00:50Speaker 03

  Here's the thing, that is on TV. Here's the thing I think people actually have a problem with. Is a woman making choices for herself and having agency. Like, this is about agency. This is my choice. It's my body. I can do what I want. Like, if I say it's okay for someone to wank over a picture of my ass, then it's okay. If I say it's not, I won't put pictures of my ass on the internet. But like, I grew up on like, watching Carry On movies with my nan and granddad with like, there's tits and ass everywhere. And it's like, hee hee, it's funny, it's fine. But it's like, it's not fine if I choose to do it and I make money from it. I really think the shocking thing is that I'm making a lot of money from it. I think people are like, yes, I am. I solved my like touring crisis problems in like a week.

• 1:01:30Speaker 03

  Like, I am making money. And like, I'm gonna invest that money back into my music career.

• 1:01:36Adam Buxton?

  But if you decorated your bum cheeks.

• 1:01:39Speaker 03

  Well, this is giving me inspiration. Like, this is what I'm gonna do as soon as I get home.

• 1:01:42Adam Buxton?

  You lie on your side, the eyes and the nose are on the top cheek.

• 1:01:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:47Adam Buxton?

  The crack is the mouth.

• 1:01:49Speaker 03

  I'm gonna definitely do this.

• 1:01:50Adam Buxton?

  You waggle the, you waggle the cheeks to make them speak. And then you have to do an impression of whoever your bum is decorated as.

• 1:01:57Speaker 03

  Are you waggling them like, just by a jiggle or with hands? Is it like Ace Ventura style?

• 1:02:01Adam Buxton?

  You hang like clothes around the ass. And it's a question of frame.

• 1:02:06Speaker 03

  And you're lying on your side?

• 1:02:07Adam Buxton?

  Lying on your side, yeah. And, and then you hold the top of, of the bottom.

• 1:02:11Speaker 03

  Can you send it to me?

• 1:02:12Adam Buxton?

  Sure, sure. And so you waggle the cheeks like just out of frame.

• 1:02:17Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 1:02:17Adam Buxton?

  And then they.

• 1:02:18Speaker 03

  I'll split the profit of what I make from that with you if you want.

• 1:02:21Adam Buxton?

  All right, good. Um, in the meantime, I'm going to play you bums.

• 1:02:25Speaker 03

  I think I'm ready for it now.

• 1:02:26Adam Buxton?

  And binge drinking. This is from two thousand and nine, and this is from a segment on our.

• 1:02:31Speaker 03

  But wait, are you gonna regret this? Are you gonna be like, I feel bad? Like, just, just be okay with it.

• 1:02:35Adam Buxton?

  Well, no, because.

• 1:02:36Speaker 03

  I'm giving you permission.

• 1:02:37Adam Buxton?

  I'm only playing it now because I, I, having spoken to you for two hours, I think you're gonna take it in the right spirit.

• 1:02:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, great, great, great.

• 1:02:43Adam Buxton?

  And I don't think it's horrible. But, but you know, please, genuinely, if you think it's shitty, then say so. If the bum is shitty, then you gotta call it out.

• 1:02:57Speaker 03

  You always have to say.

• 1:02:57Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:00Speaker 03

  Oh, my god.

• 1:03:08Speaker 00

  I was a bit depressed today, so I started thinking about binge drinking around 3 o'clock. So I went and done a little knock on the door of my best friend Mandy and my boyfriend Andy. He was randy, I could tell 'cause he kept looking at my bum like he was some kind of pervy bum fan. Bums and binge drinking, binge drinking and bums. When I get depressed, I like to go binge drinking with my chums. "Why are you depressed?", said Mandy, but not Andy when we was at the shops buying alcohol pops. Mandy never stops asking me questions like that, so I told her.

• 1:03:50Speaker 00

  "Mandy, it's the media, they make my bum feel fat. I have to go binge drinking just so I can deal with that." Bums and binge drinking, binge drinking and bums. When I get depressed, I like to go binge drinking with my chums. It's good, I think it's...

• 1:04:11Adam Buxton?

  You can cover it if you want.

• 1:04:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, I will.

• 1:04:15Speaker 00

  My bum is not quite perfect and my boyfriend's rubbish too. This is literally my life, like... I threw up on Andy and we had a big fight, then Mandy puked. And then we had a meal, and later on we all watched Balls of Steel. Then I felt quite happy, then I was sad and I thought, "I wonder how many jints I've had." And then I threw up, and then I passed out, it was so embarrassing, my bum was hanging out. Bums and binge drinking, binge drinking and bums. When I get depressed, I like to go binge drinking with my chums. Aww.

• 1:04:52Adam Buxton?

  And then it came, that's it basically. I like that, "La la la la la, rooty toot, yeah, what?" I remember being quite pleased with that bit.

• 1:05:03Adam Buxton?

  There you go.

• 1:05:04Speaker 04

  I loved it.

• 1:05:05Adam Buxton?

  Wow.

• 1:05:06Speaker 04

  I think it's really good. It's a really good song. It was a great parody of me in my twenties. I really feel after this conversation, like it covered a lot of things that happened.

• 1:05:17Adam Buxton?

  It sort of tied it all up in quite a neat bow.

• 1:05:22Adam Buxton?

  Now, to to reset the universal axis, though, I think we should have music from you.

• 1:05:28Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:05:28Adam Buxton?

  Would you be okay with that? Or do you feel it's a bit weird?

• 1:05:31Speaker 04

  No, I'm okay with it.

• 1:05:31Adam Buxton?

  Okay, great.

• 1:05:33Speaker 04

  Maybe I should play something from Made of Brick.

• 1:05:56Speaker 04

  She was waiting at the station. He was getting off the train. He didn't have a ticket, so he had to bum through the barriers. Bum, again, bum. Again. While the ticket inspector saw him rushing through, he said, "Girl, you don't know how much I missed you, but we'd better run because I haven't got the funds to pay this. Bye." She said, "Bye."

• 1:06:38Speaker 04

  Well, so they ran out of the station and jumped onto a bus with two of yesterday's travel cards, two bowls of butter, and he said, "You look well nice."

• 1:06:55Speaker 04

  Well, she was wearing a skirt and he thought she looked nice And yeah, she didn't really care about anything else Cause she only wanted him to think that she looked nice, and he did

• 1:07:12Speaker 04

  But he was looking at her, yeah, all funny in the eye She said, "Come on, boy, tell me what you're thinking now, don't be shy," he said "All right, I'll try"

• 1:07:29Speaker 04

  All the stars up in the sky and the leaves in the trees All the broken bits that make you trip up and grassy bits in between All that matter in the world, that's how much that I like you

• 1:07:45Speaker 04

  She said, "What?"

• 1:07:50Speaker 04

  He said, "Let me try and explain again"

• 1:08:03Speaker 04

  Right, birds can fly so high and they can shit on your head Yeah, they can almost fly into your eye and make you feel so scared But when you look at them and you see that they're beautiful That's how I feel about you Right, birds can fly so high and they can shit on your head Yeah, they can almost fly into your eye and make you feel so scared But when you look at them and you see that they're beautiful That's how I feel about you Right, that's how I feel about you

• 1:08:45Speaker 04

  She said, "What?"

• 1:08:50Speaker 04

  He said, "You."

• 1:08:55Speaker 04

  She said, "What are you talking about?"

• 1:08:59Speaker 04

  He said, "You."

• 1:09:04Speaker 04

  Right, birds can fly so high and they can shit on your head. Yeah, they can almost fly into your eye and make you feel so scared. But when you look at them and you see that they're beautiful, that's how I feel about you. Right, birds can fly so high and they can shit on your head. Yeah, they can almost fly into your eye and make you feel so scared. But when you look at them and you see that they're beautiful, that's how I feel about you. Right, that's how I feel about you.

• 1:09:46Speaker 04

  She said, "Thanks."

• 1:09:51Speaker 04

  "I like you too."

• 1:09:55Speaker 04

  He said, "Cool."

• 1:10:12Adam Buxton?

  Oh, that was amazing.

• 1:10:13Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 1:10:23Adam Buxton?

  Great.

• 1:10:23Speaker 02

  This is an ad for Squarespace. Okay, we'll return to the AI apocalypse in just a wee, wee moment. But first, I wanted to talk about Squarespace. Do you know about Squarespace, Steve? Uh, yes, Monty. I think I might even be a little bit more tuned into modern tech, websites, et cetera, than you. I don't know, just guessing. Oh, Steve, I love this dynamic. I'm old and conservative and you're young and progressive. And that's what makes the Newswind podcast such great listening. But yes, you're right, I must admit, I didn't know much about Squarespace. But because my new grumble book, Hell in a Handcart, is out this month, and I look forward to getting in right... ...aged by that, so I should hope. Em, arm, arm. Anyway, the publishers, Bluestar and Dogwhistle, made a beautiful website for the book using Squarespace. I know, I got the newsletter that you sent out using Squarespace, and the website does look great.

• 1:11:06Speaker 02

  Videos of you airing your views, members' areas for your mad fans, you've even got a merch store, I see. That's right, the Union Jack top hat is a big seller, but they constructed it all so fast with Squarespace. They did most of it over one lunchtime, Steve. Well, you wouldn't want to spend much longer on it, would you? Shut up, Steve. But here's the thing, anyone listening to this can start a free trial right now at Squarespace.com/Buxton and see how easy and versatile Squarespace is. And when they're ready to launch a new website or domain, they can save 10% off their first purchase by using the offer code BUXTON at checkout. Right, well, maybe I'll visit Squarespace.com/Buxton and start a new website just to refute all the nonsense in your new book. Oh, don't do that, Steve. I will. Oh, shut up, Steve. Er. Shut up. Now, back to more depressing matters on Newsweek.

• 1:11:50Adam Buxton?

  Continue.

• 1:12:01Adam Buxton?

  Hey, welcome back, podcats. Well, that was Kate Nash, talking to me and singing, and I'm very grateful indeed to Kate for making the time. Much appreciated, I really enjoyed it. And as promised, I've put a link to Kate's OnlyFans page in the description of today's podcast. There's also a link to my website with further Kate-related bits and pieces.

• 1:12:30Adam Buxton?

  There's also a trailer for The Ballad of Wallace Island, that's Tim Key and Tom Basden's film, which they co-wrote, was directed by James Griffiths, produced by Rupert Magendee and Steve Coogan, and due for release on the 30th of May, 2025. And of course, there is a link to preorder I Love You By, the new hilarious and heartwarming memoir.

• 1:12:58Adam Buxton?

  By Adam Buxton. Why not pick up a signed copy from Waterstones? Oh, imagine how much they're going to be worth one day. Imagine a bit higher than that. Yeah, there you go. That's probably about right. There's also, also a link to buy tickets for one of the live shows I'll be doing in support of the book publication. And that is on the nineteenth of May at the Union Chapel in Islington, one of the most beautiful venues in London. And I will be there talking with Caitlin Moran about the book, reminiscing about the nineties, maybe playing a few clips from the Adam and Joe Show

• 1:13:42Adam Buxton?

  and some outtakes, perhaps a bit of Radiohead stuff because I write about working with them on the In Rainbows webcasts in the book. Possible argument with wife log action. Who knows? Who knows what'll happen at that Intelligence Squared event? And it would be lovely to see you. All right, that's it for this week. Thanks again to Kate Nash and to Sinead for helping arrange the conversation. Thanks very much indeed to Seamus Murphy Mitchell for his invaluable production support and conversation editing. Thanks to Helen Green for her beautiful artwork. Thank you to all at Acast.

• 1:14:27Adam Buxton?

  But a particularly heartfelt thank you to you. You're one of my favorite listeners. You're just so generous, easygoing, open-minded, slow to judge, very well dressed. You smell delicious. And I was wondering if we could have a hug. Oh, okay. No, that's fine. Sorry, I, I didn't mean to. Okay, come on, hey. Good to see you.

• 1:14:55Adam Buxton?

  All right. Until the next time, we share the same outl space. From myself, my friend Doglegs.

• 1:15:03Speaker 02

  Don't patronize me.

• 1:15:05Adam Buxton?

  I apologize. And all the beautiful birds and the other crawling creatures out here in Norfolk. Go carefully, it's still nutty out there. And if it makes any difference, I love you. Bye.

• 1:15:24Speaker 05

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