‘Working Girl’ With Bill Simmons, Amanda Dobbins, and Joanna Robinson

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Amanda Dobbins, and Joanna Robinson hop on the Staten Island Ferry and pop on their tennis shoes to revisit Mike Nichols’s 1988 classic, ‘Working Girl,’ starring Melanie Griffith, Harrison Ford, and Sigourney Weaver. Podcast Manager: Craig Horlbeck Video Producers: Ronak Nair and Marcelino Ortiz Shopping. Streaming. Savings. It’s on Prime Visit Amazon.com/prime to get more out of whatever you’re into. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:00Bill Simmons?

  The Rewatchables is brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network. You can find Amanda Dobbins on The Big Picture. Dramatic return to you for the Rewatchables.

• 1:08Speaker 02

  I'm incredibly excited.

• 1:10Bill Simmons?

  I was, you know, you have two kids now and you're busy and I was trying to ease you back, but now we get you back for stuff.

• 1:17Speaker 02

  You've been very respectful.

• 1:17Bill Simmons?

  You've been on in like a year and a half.

• 1:19Speaker 02

  I know, but I'm back and I have to tell you in terms of returning to the real world.

• 1:23Bill Simmons?

  This is like a real I'm back.

• 1:24Speaker 02

  World of adults, thank you so much for this opportunity.

• 1:27Bill Simmons?

  Joanna Robinson is here as well.

• 1:28Speaker 03

  Hello.

• 1:29Bill Simmons?

  You don't live here, but every time you're here, I try to grab you for Rewatchables now.

• 1:32Speaker 03

  And it's like a great track record of movies that you've had me cover.

• 1:36Bill Simmons?

  So, Working Girl.

• 1:39Speaker 02

  I can't believe it.

• 1:41Bill Simmons?

  Mentioned it a couple of weeks ago to you and Mallory.

• 1:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44Bill Simmons?

  When we were doing a Rewatchables and I was like, we should do Working Girl. And Mallory, who you've known now for how long?

• 1:50Speaker 02

  10 years.

• 1:51Bill Simmons?

  Said, I cannot do that. I cannot take that from Amanda. Give my spot to Amanda. And I was like, you're right. Amanda has always said Working Girl is the number one movie I would ever want to do in the Rewatchables.

• 2:04Speaker 02

  I've been waiting.

• 2:04Bill Simmons?

  It's my bad for forgetting that. And now we're gonna do Working Girl. Let's run the trailer and then we'll go.

• 2:11Speaker 04

  Do me a favor, be my... Tess, be my secretary.

• 2:14Speaker 05

  He wants to give her a chance.

• 2:16Speaker 04

  Hold all calls, Ms. McGill. Maybe I just don't like you.

• 2:20Speaker 05

  You're a double-crossing boss.

• 2:22Speaker 00

  I consider us a team, Tess.

• 2:24Speaker 05

  Doesn't.

• 2:24Speaker 00

  This woman is my secretary.

• 2:26Speaker 05

  But this working girl is gonna make it on her own. You are amazing. Harrison Ford, Sigourney Weaver, and Melanie Griffith.

• 2:33Speaker 06

  What's going on in there? She's dusting?

• 2:35Speaker 05

  Working Girl: Rated R. Starts Wednesday, December 21st, at a theater near you.

• 2:41Bill Simmons?

  This episode of The Rewatchables is presented to you by Amazon Prime. Prime is more than just fast delivery. It's also where you can dive deep into your favorite movie genres with Prime Video and get what you need, fast, to fuel your obsession. You also, if you watch a movie in Amazon Prime, you can click down and see the actors in each scene for a lot of the movies, which is great. Snacks for movie night, a new book on film theory. It's all there, too, on Amazon Prime. Whatever it is, Prime helps you get more out of whatever passions you're into or getting into. Head to amazon.com/prime and follow your obsession wherever it goes.

• 3:31Bill Simmons?

  All right, your favorite movie ever, Amanda, why?

• 3:33Speaker 02

  Perfect romantic comedy, but more than a romantic comedy. It is a cultural artifact as well as a, you know, Cinderella story. Great cast. Got a Harrison Ford take for later that I don't want to spoil, but very important. One of the great movie songs, if not the great movie song of... Well, I don't want to get ahead of myself. Listen, it's in the trailer, right? We've already heard it, but incredible stuff.

• 4:05Bill Simmons?

  The first time I, when I watched it twice in four days and the first time and I was like, do I like this song? And then when, and then it just.

• 4:12Speaker 03

  And it plays nine times in the movies.

• 4:13Bill Simmons?

  And then keep doing, you do the little where she's just kinda humming it a couple times. You're like, alright.

• 4:17Speaker 03

  They do it on the organ, the symphony. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  The score is great. The score is wonderful.

• 4:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  Um, and also, you know, I was born a few years before this movie came out. So in some ways, this is how I understand the eighties, you know? Uh, and it, and how I understand my parents, for better and for worse. So just landmark, in my opinion.

• 4:39Bill Simmons?

  Joanna?

• 4:40Speaker 03

  I love this film so much. I, I feel like this is a top five eighties movie.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:44Speaker 03

  Like, if you're like, what was the eighties? Let's put it in a time capsule for the aliens. Working Girl is in there. It has to be. Um, the very.

• 4:53Bill Simmons?

  That would be an interesting.

• 4:53Speaker 03

  Right?

• 4:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Conversation, what those five movies would be. I kinda feel like The Breakfast Club should be one of the five.

• 4:59Speaker 03

  Absolutely. Sure.

• 5:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:02Speaker 03

  Die Hard?

• 5:03Bill Simmons?

  Die Hard, the first Die Hard.

• 5:05Speaker 03

  The first Die Hard.

• 5:07Speaker 02

  Over like Ghostbusters?

• 5:09Bill Simmons?

  Would you put Fatal Attraction in there? I'm trying to think of movies that just seem distinctly eighties.

• 5:14Speaker 02

  Let's see.

• 5:15Bill Simmons?

  Top Gun, I think, would have to be in the running. I mean, there's a lot.

• 5:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, but if it can only be five, this should be a podcast. This should be an entire podcast. What's these?

• 5:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:23Speaker 03

  What's the five movie time capsule for each decade?

• 5:26Bill Simmons?

  But it, but it would have to be, these movies represent the eighties in the most eighties ways possible.

• 5:31Speaker 03

  And so the way that The Working Girl represents, uh, well, you know, I'm, I'm just like, only a few years older than you. And growing up rewatching all of these eighties movies on TNT or TBS or whatever it was, I was like, oh, every movie is set at Wall Street. Like, that was, that was the impression we got, that every single movie was about Wall Street. That was the goal. That was the aim. Um.

• 5:50Speaker 02

  Everyone was in New York trying to.

• 5:52Speaker 03

  Trading.

• 5:53Speaker 02

  And, and, and trading and arbitrage, which I still don't know what it is. Forgot to Google that before this podcast.

• 5:58Bill Simmons?

  Five from arbitrage.

• 5:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure.

• 6:00Bill Simmons?

  I don't know what arbitrage is either.

• 6:01Speaker 03

  I have it under questions that can never not be answered. Okay, well, that's good, yeah. What is arbitrage? No idea. I'll never know.

• 6:07Bill Simmons?

  Well, there's also, uh, this is kind of the tail end of the, I mean, there's so many things going on with this movie, but this kind of greed is good era.

• 6:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:15Bill Simmons?

  Where it's like, you just gotta work your ass off. And if you get, then you'll have money and maybe you'll be able to ride in a limo. And it's just the eighties were very innocent about all that stuff. That, that was one of the things that jumped out to me is like, oh, this premise probably isn't the same kind of premise in 2025 necessarily.

• 6:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know that like the, the highest achievement is your office and in a warrant of all these other offices. If that's like the, the gold ring, the brass ring that you want right now, but in, in the late eighties, it was.

• 6:43Bill Simmons?

  And it was a zero sum game. You were getting it at the expense of somebody else. All right, so I have, well, first of all, Rolling Stone wrote this in 1989, which I thought was perfect when they did a very bizarre Melanie Griffith feature.

• 6:54Speaker 03

  Well, sure.

• 6:55Bill Simmons?

  And I cannot.

• 6:56Speaker 03

  I, yeah, I listened.

• 6:58Bill Simmons?

  To talk about her.

• 6:58Speaker 03

  Has there ever been like an unbizarre Melanie Griffith feature is my question?

• 7:03Bill Simmons?

  Wow, um, Rolling Stone writes, Working Star is, Working Girl is the story of a secretary fighting an egomaniac, egomaniacal boss for credit on an idea. Griffith stars as the secretary and she too is fighting for credit, though the character she plays in almost every scene, Griffith's billing is third behind Sigourney Weaver, the boss, and then Harrison Ford. It's so interesting that she's not the star of the movie.

• 7:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:27Bill Simmons?

  Because she seems like a massive star now, but at the time it seemed risky to even build a movie around her.

• 7:34Speaker 03

  She had just done Something Wild, right? Yeah.

• 7:36Bill Simmons?

  And Body Double, but they weren't, those weren't big movies.

• 7:39Speaker 03

  Well, this is what makes her forever a star.

• 7:41Bill Simmons?

  Totally.

• 7:42Speaker 03

  Right, yeah.

• 7:43Bill Simmons?

  But I can't remember other movies where somebody's clearly the star and they're like, no, we gotta put you third because we need these other two for the poster, which kind of weirdly mirrors the movie.

• 7:53Speaker 03

  That's so interesting. I think it's definitely happened before, usually maybe second builds.

• 7:57Speaker 02

  Right.

• 7:57Speaker 03

  Over a star that has an ego or something like that. But third build is under Sigourney Weaver. Cause Harrison Ford's her co-lead, but Sigourney Weaver is definitely in supporting.

• 8:06Bill Simmons?

  But she was a massive star from Aliens at that point.

• 8:08Speaker 02

  It's not even the and, you know, and she doesn't even like get the and like the bummer or introducing. She's not being introduced. She's been working for a while. Yeah, just absolutely third.

• 8:18Bill Simmons?

  Well, I can't wait to talk about her. All right. Here's what I wrote down. There's four movies going on at the same time. We mentioned The Greed is the New York aspirational money, all that stuff that's in there.

• 8:31Bill Simmons?

  There's this seventies, eighties thing that they don't really do anymore in movies where the trying not to get caught in an elaborate lie.

• 8:39Speaker 03

  Right.

• 8:39Bill Simmons?

  Was basically half of the TV shows in the seventies and then a lot of movies where it's like Joanna's pretending to be the head of Spotify.

• 8:49Speaker 03

  Oh, well, it's like the TV show Younger, essentially.

• 8:51Speaker 02

  Oh, yes, exactly. All of which is just

• 8:53Bill Simmons?

  Craig thinks Joanna is running Spotify. She's actually not.

• 8:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 8:56Bill Simmons?

  But they're, and now they're in the same room and the actual head of Spotify's there and she's gotta duck out before he sees her.

• 9:01Speaker 03

  Get away with it, honestly.

• 9:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, but there's no Google. So, yeah, there's

• 9:05Bill Simmons?

  You can kind of make up whatever you want.

• 9:07Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 9:07Speaker 03

  Right.

• 9:08Bill Simmons?

  So you have that. You have the Pretty Woman Cinderella. It's the Pretty Woman parallels with this movie. It kind of makes me look down on Pretty Woman a little bit. They openly steal shit from this movie.

• 9:20Speaker 03

  Absolutely. Yeah.

• 9:21Bill Simmons?

  And then the last piece is the female empowerment workplace comedy stuff that is like for the eighties, cause you have baby boom here too. This is

• 9:29Speaker 03

  Broadcast news in a like a slightly different way.

• 9:31Bill Simmons?

  This is becoming an era of like professional women. Huh. What an interesting

• 9:35Speaker 03

  Right.

• 9:36Bill Simmons?

  time for something.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  Fatal Attraction is also like the reverse of it, right? You know, like a prof, she's professional at the expense of a beautiful home in the countryside.

• 9:44Speaker 03

  You're missing the rom in the con though.

• 9:45Bill Simmons?

  Well, and obviously the rom com.

• 9:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:48Bill Simmons?

  But which one of the, out of all of those, what's your favorite?

• 9:50Speaker 02

  I really, the yuppie cinema of the late eighties, and particularly the women, is fascinating to me. I love all of those movies. It is really fascinating to watch them now and be like, oh, so this is how I learned how I was like supposed to go to work and supposed to dress. Because for our age, it was, you know, handed down to you like, okay, this is what a working woman looks like.

• 10:10Speaker 03

  Right.

• 10:10Speaker 02

  This is what it is to be a professional.

• 10:12Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 10:12Speaker 02

  You're supposed to, like, can you have it all? Should you balance your career? Should you accept the random child that you inherited from an unknown location?

• 10:21Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 10:21Speaker 03

  Have you done a baby boom rewatch of those? Or is that what we're pitching right now?

• 10:25Speaker 02

  I mean, it's, it is really fascinating.

• 10:28Bill Simmons?

  Bright Lights, Big City was another one.

• 10:29Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 10:29Bill Simmons?

  There's a bunch of these.

• 10:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 10:33Bill Simmons?

  My mom talks about, my mom's old, so she talks about this all the time, when she gets mad at younger generations. And she's just like, we just knew how to navigate stuff in my day.

• 10:42Speaker 03

  Oh, true.

• 10:43Bill Simmons?

  If we had people who were just jerks or they were hitting on, you just, you just learned how to deal with them.

• 10:48Speaker 03

  You just write that they're a sleazoid on the ticker.

• 10:51Bill Simmons?

  You just kind of had your, your ways, almost like your nuclear defense system.

• 10:55Speaker 03

  Of dealing with it, yeah.

• 10:56Bill Simmons?

  And it's, one of the interesting things about rewatching this movie is the first 20 minutes is basically all about, like, she's just in this world. Weird shit's going on. They're trying to set her up with Kevin Spacey. And she's like, is he gonna just try to get me to date? And the irony of it being Kevin Spacey was pretty great. Um, but he's like, yeah, I got my hotel room. And she's just like, oh, man. She ends up getting out of the car and it's just like, ah, that was a Tuesday.

• 11:19Speaker 03

  Right.

• 11:20Bill Simmons?

  Now that would be like the most traumatic thing that happened to somebody. But back then, that was just kind of what the eighties were like.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  Right.

• 11:26Bill Simmons?

  Pretty crazy.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  She has that scene with Alec Baldwin of when she's talking about like how great it is to be working for a woman. And there's none of that like chasing around the desk crap. And it's just matter of fact.

• 11:37Bill Simmons?

  Exactly.

• 11:38Speaker 03

  Right, right. And she's like, I know you hate when I say stuff like this, but it's kind of nice to not have my ass slapped.

• 11:43Bill Simmons?

  But I can't think of that many movies in the eighties that even, I don't know, casually.

• 11:48Speaker 02

  Nine to Five is another one?

• 11:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:49Bill Simmons?

  Nine to Five, that was the whole theme of it.

• 11:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 11:52Bill Simmons?

  I mean, that movie's insane.

• 11:54Speaker 02

  It actually, it is true.

• 11:55Bill Simmons?

  I think I was 10 or 11 when that came out.

• 11:57Speaker 03

  Were you?

• 11:57Bill Simmons?

  The whole point of that movie is like.

• 11:58Speaker 03

  Do you think, did you see it when you were 10 or 11?

• 12:00Bill Simmons?

  I saw it in the theater.

• 12:01Speaker 03

  That's amazing.

• 12:02Speaker 02

  Did you see this in the theater?

• 12:04Bill Simmons?

  I did.

• 12:04Speaker 03

  Oh, God, I'm jealous.

• 12:06Bill Simmons?

  I mean, 87 was an all time movie.

• 12:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 12:08Bill Simmons?

  Or 87, 88, those, that, those two years of just big stars, cool movies. Um, I'm trying to remember.

• 12:19Bill Simmons?

  If it was preceded as a Harrison Ford movie or a Sigourney Weaver, because they were both really big stars.

• 12:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:27Bill Simmons?

  I think it was probably a bigger deal that Sigourney Weaver was in it because she was, The Aliens was such like a massive movie.

• 12:32Speaker 03

  I wonder if it was a big deal that Indiana Jones was doing sort of like a romantic comedy.

• 12:37Bill Simmons?

  His first rom com.

• 12:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, you know, so an Indiana Jones movie or a Harrison Ford movie until you see it and then it's a Melanie Griffith movie.

• 12:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, he doesn't show up for at least 30 minutes.

• 12:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:49Bill Simmons?

  We'll talk about it in a second. We gotta talk about, we gotta talk about Melanie.

• 12:52Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah.

• 12:54Bill Simmons?

  Holy mackerel. What a performance.

• 12:57Speaker 03

  This is it.

• 12:57Bill Simmons?

  I still think Body Double is my number one Melanie Griffith.

• 13:00Speaker 03

  Really?

• 13:00Bill Simmons?

  Oh, she's so good in that movie and she just comes in 120 miles an hour.

• 13:05Speaker 03

  Even though she is Hollywood royalty and she wasn't, you know, born a working girl from Staten Island.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 13:11Speaker 03

  This is just is, seems like her. This just seems like who Melanie Griffith is. And I, I can't separate her from Tess, having seen her in like any number of other things.

• 13:22Speaker 02

  She's also, it's a, it's an amazing performance because it's not over the top. It's not, she's like, she's not gonna win the overacting award. Like, she is soft spoken.

• 13:32Bill Simmons?

  She does very like.

• 13:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But she's still, you know, she's gonna, she's determined. She's gonna get what she wants. But I always think it's really interesting when people take these really big roles. The movie hangs around her and they're, and they recede a little and they don't always raise their voice. Meryl Streep in Devil Wears Prada being the other one. It's, it's not an obvious choice and she's great in it.

• 13:54Bill Simmons?

  That's another movie.

• 13:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:56Bill Simmons?

  There's a lot of DNA.

• 13:58Speaker 03

  There's a lot of Devil Wears Prada from this.

• 13:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's a, there's a reason all my favorite, you know.

• 14:03Bill Simmons?

  Well, that's, so this movie is 38 years old now and it's just sprinkling DNA over all these beloved movies over the next 40 years. But those were, Pretty Woman and Devil Wears Prada were the two that I was like, oh, yeah.

• 14:14Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 14:15Bill Simmons?

  You guys just watched this one over and over again and tried to pull stuff. Melanie Griffith.

• 14:20Speaker 02

  We gonna talk about it now?

• 14:21Bill Simmons?

  Let's talk about Tess first.

• 14:22Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 14:25Bill Simmons?

  Perfect character.

• 14:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 14:27Bill Simmons?

  Like, just like little details that are great. Like when she shows up in the office and she takes her shoes off and replaces them. It's like, okay, I get the, the hair is like a disaster. The outfit's not great. You know, the makeover, some sort of thing is happening at some point. She's like.

• 14:47Bill Simmons?

  Slightly trashy, but not. You know what I mean? Like, you could see her at a bar at two in the morning, probably.

• 14:54Speaker 03

  She fits in both wor- she figures a way to fit in both worlds.

• 14:57Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, but they're doing like the class version of she takes off the glasses and like OMG, she's beautiful.

• 15:02Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 15:03Speaker 03

  She was obviously always beautiful, but I liked that the mon- the makeover montage is just like a haircut. It's not like every, you know, it's like she takes off her bangles in one scene and like she cuts her hair in another scene and that's.

• 15:12Speaker 02

  Also that Joan Cusack is capable of that kind of layering on such short notice.

• 15:17Speaker 03

  Like flowby level.

• 15:18Speaker 02

  Sure, yeah, it's really impressive.

• 15:19Speaker 03

  Really good.

• 15:20Speaker 02

  Career there.

• 15:21Bill Simmons?

  So she snaps, well, all of a sudden when she's gonna pretend to be the boss.

• 15:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:24Bill Simmons?

  Fixes her hair.

• 15:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:26Bill Simmons?

  Different, slightly different outfit, changes the makeup and all of a sudden looks like a absolute assassin.

• 15:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:31Bill Simmons?

  Um, but it's just, I, I thought it's a totally authentic, I completely believe the character.

• 15:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:38Bill Simmons?

  I'm in on all her decisions. Um, I actually believe she can navigate this world.

• 15:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:43Bill Simmons?

  And she's using like her.

• 15:45Speaker 03

  Her street smarts.

• 15:46Bill Simmons?

  Sex appeal and street smarts the right way.

• 15:48Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 15:48Bill Simmons?

  And the guys are kind of, that one scene when she walks in and it's just a whole room of guys. And she does, like everything about it is just really good. I, I'm actually surprised she didn't win the best actress. I understand why because the Jodie Foster and the accused, that was such like.

• 16:02Speaker 03

  Right.

• 16:03Bill Simmons?

  A big part. It was like a big thing for her. People had all history with her, but. I don't know, if you watch those two performances side by side, I actually think this one might be harder in some ways.

• 16:12Speaker 03

  Since Jodie's about to win again. I always like, when you sort of re-litigate the Oscars, I'm just like, well.

• 16:16Bill Simmons?

  Would you rather give her the Silence of the Lambs?

• 16:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I thought, I think this is a harder part because I don't know who else could have played the part.

• 16:25Speaker 03

  There's a whole roster, which we'll talk about later, uh, you know, but, but something that they talked about inside of the casting is they didn't want anyone who was like too obviously the most beautiful woman in the world.

• 16:35Speaker 02

  See, your beloved, sorry to step on.

• 16:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:38Speaker 02

  You know, casting what ifs, but Michelle Pfeiffer.

• 16:40Speaker 03

  Pfeiffer.

• 16:41Bill Simmons?

  Can't work.

• 16:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, right. They were like, she's too beautiful.

• 16:45Speaker 02

  You just don't buy it when she's sitting there.

• 16:46Speaker 03

  You couldn't like, watch her bloom into something because she's pre-bloomed. So, you know, Melanie Griffith is like the perfect, she's so beautiful, but with the hair and the bangles and all this sort of stuff like that, you can see how people would overlook her or use her or whatever it is that they're doing at the beginning.

• 17:01Bill Simmons?

  There's some baggage that she brings in real life.

• 17:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:05Bill Simmons?

  In the movie?

• 17:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 17:06Bill Simmons?

  That is perfect. It's like, she just turned 30. She's slightly older than Sigourney Weaver. And she just looks like there's probably been a couple of mistakes in the past. And now she's trying to get her shit together. That I don't know if Michelle Pfeiffer would bring.

• 17:18Speaker 02

  No, Michelle Pfeiffer has it like is pitch perfect, most beautiful person. And there's no vulnerability to her.

• 17:26Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 17:27Speaker 02

  If there is, it's like a different.

• 17:28Bill Simmons?

  Things have worked out for her since she was four years old.

• 17:31Speaker 03

  I can almost see it with Michelle Pfeiffer with like Married to the Mob or Fabulous Baker Boys. Like there's something in those characters that is almost.

• 17:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, but she's having fun doing that.

• 17:41Speaker 03

  I guess, but there is.

• 17:42Bill Simmons?

  You mean Fabulous Baker Boys, the most important performance by an actress in the history of movies?

• 17:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 17:47Bill Simmons?

  That movie?

• 17:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:48Bill Simmons?

  Haven't done that one.

• 17:49Speaker 02

  Do we get to talk about Melanie Griffith's personal baggage right now? Or should we do it later?

• 17:56Bill Simmons?

  Well.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  It's pretty well documented.

• 17:58Bill Simmons?

  There's a lot of stuff going on here. In her Wikipedia.

• 18:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:02Bill Simmons?

  There's a section for spouses.

• 18:04Speaker 02

  Oh, sure.

• 18:05Bill Simmons?

  Don Johnson, married 1976, divorced 1976. By the way, she was like 15.

• 18:11Speaker 02

  Right.

• 18:12Bill Simmons?

  Don Johnson, again, married 1989, divorced 1996. Huh, that's interesting. The double marriage to the same person is a classic Hollywood thing that I don't think happens in real life. Stephen Bower, married 1981, divorced 1989. I have a feeling that they probably had some fun. Uh, and then Antonio Banderas from 96 to 2015. She was married to Don Johnson, Stephen Bower and Antonio Banderas.

• 18:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, an assassin.

• 18:39Bill Simmons?

  What a trifecta.

• 18:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:41Bill Simmons?

  Three of the greats. Um, she had coke and alcohol stuff for.

• 18:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:47Bill Simmons?

  Really since she was like a teenager.

• 18:49Speaker 03

  While she was making this movie.

• 18:50Speaker 02

  And you can see it in the movie. Yeah. And they, they have all talked about this, but at some point they even had to shut down production because she was, um, under substance abuse and she.

• 19:00Bill Simmons?

  So I didn't, I didn't know some of this.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:02Bill Simmons?

  I didn't know that they made her pay. Mike Nichols was so mad, he made her pay for the whole day shoot.

• 19:07Speaker 02

  Right, yeah.

• 19:08Bill Simmons?

  Stuff like that.

• 19:09Speaker 02

  But you can, part of the reason that she works is there, her face is sometimes like a little puffy and a little something, especially in some of the early test scenes. And you're like, oh.

• 19:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's not like she, it's not, she looks like she had had like a really rough night the night before, kind of bloated.

• 19:27Speaker 03

  She was carousing with Alec Baldwin.

• 19:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:29Speaker 03

  You know, living her life.

• 19:31Bill Simmons?

  So.

• 19:33Bill Simmons?

  She ends up getting, they say, clean after the movie. But some of the stuff was, Griffith said, it was the late eighties. There was a lot going on party wise in New York. There's a lot of cocaine. There was a lot of temptation. One of the reasons this movie is rewatchable is because it's fascinating to see her scene by scene. And be like, ooh.

• 19:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:53Bill Simmons?

  I think that was a rough night because the TVs are better. The HD is better and you can really, there's a couple of scenes where she's just got like completely red eyes for no reason.

• 20:02Speaker 03

  But it just like works.

• 20:04Speaker 02

  I dunked my face in a bowl of ice water this morning, inspired by Melanie Griffith. I was like, I was just like, I just can't, you know?

• 20:11Speaker 03

  I need to deep up myself. Yeah, come correct.

• 20:14Bill Simmons?

  They said she would, she'd be out till four thirty in the morning and they would have like a six o'clock call time.

• 20:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:19Bill Simmons?

  And she would just be flying. So they finally had to shut down one of them, but it really sounded like.

• 20:24Speaker 03

  It was tough.

• 20:25Bill Simmons?

  Not great.

• 20:25Speaker 03

  Yeah. I was watching a Harrison Ford interview that he did in promotion of this and they were asking if she was easy to work with or hard. And she was like, he was like, well, I just let everyone do what they do. She's very sensitive, easy to access. And I was like, there you go. He talked right around it.

• 20:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:41Bill Simmons?

  The eighties were amazing is always the lesson in the rewatchables. It was just, there's no decade like it.

• 20:46Speaker 02

  There's a lot of that in the movie also. There is cocaine, there are muscle relaxers. There's Valium.

• 20:51Speaker 03

  Dim sum.

• 20:52Speaker 02

  Lot of, yeah, dim sum. A lot of booze, like.

• 20:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:55Speaker 02

  It's full eighties in the text of the movie.

• 20:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:59Speaker 02

  Seems fun.

• 21:00Bill Simmons?

  I like the era where it's like six thirty and people just on the set and people are like, where's Melanie?

• 21:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:06Bill Simmons?

  There's no cell phones. You have no idea like where is she? I don't know. We're filming, we're getting this, the sun's coming up soon. And then she like comes in, probably from some whatever, but that's how they did it. Uh, it turns out to be the greatest thing that ever happened in her career. Although if you look at her IMDB, this is probably the peak and Pacific Heights and.

• 21:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:25Speaker 02

  This is it.

• 21:26Speaker 03

  This is it.

• 21:27Bill Simmons?

  I do love Pacific Heights.

• 21:29Speaker 03

  Me too.

• 21:29Bill Simmons?

  But this is the peak. So she went into rehab three weeks after filming and then got back together with Don Johnson, my guy.

• 21:38Speaker 03

  And was pregnant with Dakota for the Oscars that year.

• 21:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:41Bill Simmons?

  Ends up having Dakota Fanning.

• 21:43Speaker 03

  Johnson.

• 21:44Bill Simmons?

  Dakota Johnson.

• 21:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:45Bill Simmons?

  Why did I say Dakota Fanning? Because I'm old? It's only nine thirty in the morning. Ends up having Dakota Johnson.

• 21:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:52Bill Simmons?

  But Don Johnson is on Miami Vice. This is the ponytail year.

• 21:56Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 21:57Bill Simmons?

  When he gets amnesia as Sonny Crocker.

• 21:58Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 21:59Bill Simmons?

  And thinks he's a hitman.

• 22:00Speaker 03

  I was looking at it.

• 22:01Bill Simmons?

  Three-episode arc where he's just a hitman.

• 22:04Speaker 02

  All culture starts here.

• 22:04Bill Simmons?

  He shoots tubs.

• 22:06Speaker 03

  I was, I was looking at the Oscar photos from that year and his hair is just like down past his shoulders, like waving sun.

• 22:12Bill Simmons?

  Amazing. It was an amazing reconciliation.

• 22:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:14Bill Simmons?

  And then the other piece of it is, well, they were once married before when he was twenty-two and she was fourteen. It's like, what?

• 22:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:22Bill Simmons?

  Fourteen?

• 22:23Speaker 03

  It's not good.

• 22:23Speaker 02

  It's great.

• 22:24Bill Simmons?

  So you think the eighties were like, the seventies were like a whole other level. But yeah, she's pretty legendary.

• 22:32Bill Simmons?

  She was in Night Moves with Gene Hackman. I think that was nineteen seventy-five.

• 22:37Bill Simmons?

  The Tubi classics.

• 22:38Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 22:38Bill Simmons?

  You'll see it on Tubi all the time. And she has nude scenes in that and she's like thirteen or fourteen in that.

• 22:44Speaker 03

  Right, yeah.

• 22:45Bill Simmons?

  It's just a different era.

• 22:46Speaker 03

  She's talked about her childhood.

• 22:48Speaker 02

  Right, yeah.

• 22:49Bill Simmons?

  I would say exploited is probably a decent word to use, I would say.

• 22:52Speaker 02

  I saw Drowning Pool recently for the first time with Paul Newman, where she's like a fifteen-year-old seductress. Really, she's really, really good in it and also like has chemistry with Paul Newman, who's definitely in his fifties at that point.

• 23:06Bill Simmons?

  Jesus.

• 23:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, it works out.

• 23:08Bill Simmons?

  She's also, she plays a hitchhiker in the Robbie Benson basketball classic, One on One. A movie I've seen over a hundred times. And he picks her up and then she steals money from him. But she's, she's basically just for five straight years, either a hooker.

• 23:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:22Bill Simmons?

  Or some sort of trying to steal from somebody. Or she's like a street person or she's a drug addict.

• 23:28Speaker 02

  Right, yeah.

• 23:29Bill Simmons?

  And that's just kind of who she became. And that's, so when she does Body Double. That's the first time like a real director is like, no, no, there's something more here.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, though in Body Double, it's not like she's wearing all of her clothes.

• 23:40Bill Simmons?

  No, she is plays a porn star.

• 23:42Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 23:42Bill Simmons?

  She plays Holly Body.

• 23:43Speaker 03

  And what I think is wild about this movie is like, yeah, this is the least sort of like lowly to seductress she is, and she still is more than your stereotypical rom com lead like Meg Ryan couldn't do this.

• 23:56Speaker 02

  No.

• 23:57Speaker 03

  You know?

• 23:57Bill Simmons?

  Well, you know, one of the reasons, I was thinking about this because it's a great point. She's very comfortable, like she's in a bra and panties like three, four different times in this movie where she's just like getting dressed.

• 24:08Speaker 02

  She's vacuuming topless, yeah.

• 24:09Bill Simmons?

  And it's not like, sometimes it's not great camera angles of her and she just doesn't care. Like she's very kind of, and I don't know if a lot of, like Julia Roberts, I don't think would have been, oh, I'm just gonna get dressed in three different scenes. Meg Ryan wouldn't have done it.

• 24:22Speaker 03

  I really love that scene where she's just sort of like kind of awkwardly bending over, fastening the garters. And Alec Baldwin, who's reading like Motor Trend magazine is like, you look amazing. And I'm like, yeah.

• 24:33Bill Simmons?

  And it says the same thing with Joan Cusack when they're trying the different outfits.

• 24:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:37Bill Simmons?

  I don't know. She's very comfortable on screen, which she, there's something about her in everything she's in where you're like, I'm kind of rooting for her. I don't know why.

• 24:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 24:45Bill Simmons?

  Pacificaite's being the key.

• 24:47Speaker 02

  Well, sure.

• 24:48Bill Simmons?

  Evil tenant. She's gotta like get rid of that guy.

• 24:50Speaker 02

  I, I had a lot of questions about Pacificaite. You haven't done that yet on Rewatchables, right?

• 24:54Bill Simmons?

  We're gonna have, it might not even be from hell month. It might be from hell, from hell summer.

• 25:00Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, sounds right. Some of the legal landlord arrangements there.

• 25:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you're just not allowed to.

• 25:05Speaker 02

  I'd like to go into the paperwork on that.

• 25:07Bill Simmons?

  Pile drive into your thing.

• 25:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:09Bill Simmons?

  So we have her, we have Sigourney Weaver, who her mid eighties looks like this Ghostbusters, Aliens, Gorillas in the Mist, Working Girl, Ghostbusters 2, basically on a row. And each part's different. This is a really weird Sigourney Weaver in a good way performance where she's just.

• 25:27Bill Simmons?

  I don't.

• 25:27Speaker 02

  Nancy Kerrigan.

• 25:28Bill Simmons?

  This is like a character that would not exist in a movie anymore.

• 25:31Speaker 02

  True.

• 25:31Speaker 03

  How do you mean?

• 25:32Bill Simmons?

  Just like, super kinda heat checky, pompous. I use my sex appeal. I'm just lying in bed in lingerie with 10 people in a hospital bed around me and

• 25:42Speaker 02

  In, in general, the lingerie in this movie is, is of a time, you know?

• 25:48Bill Simmons?

  No question.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  They're, they're all really, really invested in it. Like thigh highs, I just don't think are a part of the, the wardrobe in that way anymore. She's, she's really good at it. And another performance where she is like obnoxious and unlikable, but like, all under a chill, there's like a iciness and it's nev- it's not big.

• 26:10Speaker 03

  It's hu- it's human.

• 26:11Speaker 02

  Until she comes in like with the crutches and is like making a whole scene and you know, faints.

• 26:16Bill Simmons?

  Well, that's what's interesting.

• 26:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:18Bill Simmons?

  She ramps it up in the second half of the movie and it doesn't feel like it's somebody trying to overreact.

• 26:23Speaker 03

  I feel like this character still exists and this character will always exist, which is just sort of like, the woman who was born pretty and extremely rich and knows how to work every room.

• 26:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 26:33Speaker 03

  And, and you're sort, and, and will

• 26:37Speaker 03

  pretend to give you a hand up, uh, and then stab you in the back. Right.

• 26:41Bill Simmons?

  And it's kind of annoying. Like if you put Kathleen Turner in this role in the mid eighties,

• 26:47Bill Simmons?

  I'm not convinced Harrison Ford's gonna walk away from it.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  Oh, I thought you were gonna, but it's also like a little too big.

• 26:54Bill Simmons?

  She's, she's a little annoying and I can see why he's like, God, I gotta get.

• 26:58Speaker 03

  Well, I'm almost like, why was Jack with her for long enough that she thought they were gonna get married?

• 27:03Speaker 02

  Well, timelines here, you know, are a little confusing.

• 27:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:07Bill Simmons?

  What's your Sigourney Weaver relationship? She checks a lot of your boxes.

• 27:11Speaker 03

  How so?

• 27:12Bill Simmons?

  Lot of, lot of different things, the movies that you're into. Yeah, a lot of genres.

• 27:16Speaker 03

  My main association is Ghostbusters. That's my Sigourney Weaver association.

• 27:21Bill Simmons?

  What's interesting about her, she doesn't. Like, I don't know who the 2025 Sigourney Weaver is. She was kind of a one on one, but nobody realized it at the time. The different types of movies she was in.

• 27:31Speaker 03

  I think, like, your Elizabeth Debicki. What's so interesting about this is that the, the screenwriter said that her role was originally written as a man, which is true for her role in Alien as well. And so the fact that they're like, let's get Sigourney to play the role that we thought we were writing for a man, but let's put a woman in it. So that was sort of like a niche for Sigourney Weaver for a little while.

• 27:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 27:51Speaker 03

  Which is so bizarre because she's so, like, beautiful and sexual and all this sort of stuff like that. But they were just sort of like, there's something about her energy that feels like it could just slide. We didn't change how we wrote the role. We just-

• 28:02Speaker 02

  I mean, they had to change some plot points.

• 28:03Speaker 03

  Yeah. The Jack stuff, yeah.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  And the, and the, and it does become more, the fact that it's two women against each other.

• 28:09Speaker 03

  Definitely matters.

• 28:10Bill Simmons?

  You rattled Amanda, just suggesting they would have changed anything about working girl. She was like, what's going on?

• 28:15Speaker 02

  Sigourney, working girl into Dave. Very formidable.

• 28:19Bill Simmons?

  So I want to talk about that because you have her in Alien and Aliens.

• 28:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:23Bill Simmons?

  Which is like this distinct crazy action hero role, right? That's like, only a couple of people could have done that. Then you have this working girl character, and then she's also the first lady.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  And mean.

• 28:36Bill Simmons?

  She's like three completely different. And I actually like her the most in Dave. I think that's my favorite Sigourney Weaver, other than, uh, Alien and Aliens.

• 28:43Speaker 02

  The Dave and the working girl, it's someone who is, is very, very standoffish. And, you know, I guess they track opposite where in Dave, you got to wear down. And so she'll be doing Harmony, you know, for the, the cop when they get pulled over. And in, and in working girl, yeah, which is just, it's really funny. She's really good.

• 29:02Speaker 03

  She is.

• 29:03Speaker 02

  And in working girl, she's like, sort of charming and, and weird about the bunny. But then her true layers are revealed, but both times.

• 29:11Bill Simmons?

  So do you like villain Sigourney? Are you like Ice Queen Sigourney? Or are you like action hero?

• 29:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, Ice Queen Sigourney is really-

• 29:16Bill Simmons?

  So Ice Storm Sigourney is another one.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:19Speaker 03

  But like, yeah, she's so like patrician in this versus an alien. She's a space trucker. Like, I think that's-

• 29:25Speaker 02

  But there's a steeliness to all of them.

• 29:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I like Sigourney Weaver.

• 29:32Bill Simmons?

  Not, not a hot take. She's one of the most successful actresses of the eighties.

• 29:35Speaker 03

  You got all screaming for her, Craig, for your bravery.

• 29:39Bill Simmons?

  There's a reason she was in a lot of big movies.

• 29:42Speaker 02

  I'm still a fan.

• 29:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 29:43Speaker 02

  She's still great. I mean, you know, she's blue in Avatar or whatever. I don't remember what's going on there.

• 29:47Speaker 03

  She's playing like a teenager in Avatar.

• 29:49Speaker 02

  Oh, and like also a whale or something?

• 29:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, a lot happening.

• 29:52Speaker 02

  I don't remember.

• 29:53Speaker 06

  Also, for people in my generation, uh, holes. That's how we were introduced to Sigourney.

• 29:58Speaker 02

  You know what? I just learned about holes last week.

• 30:00Speaker 06

  Oh, my God.

• 30:00Speaker 02

  I mean, it's formative for you guys.

• 30:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:03Speaker 06

  Maybe one of the most formative movies for my generation.

• 30:05Bill Simmons?

  One thing with her, she's tall.

• 30:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:08Bill Simmons?

  And it's like, she's, I think she's like five eleven, maybe even six feet.

• 30:12Speaker 02

  But this is the tall woman, like consortium over here. So I'm taller. Listen, you just made a face like I don't compete and I don't compete with you.

• 30:20Speaker 03

  No, you, I welcome you.

• 30:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank you. But we like tall women.

• 30:23Bill Simmons?

  We have Joanna, the sneaky tall.

• 30:25Speaker 06

  Yeah, six feet. Sigourney.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. The Chuck Klosterman All Stars of sneaky tall.

• 30:30Speaker 03

  And this is why it's believable when she lands that basket in Alien Resurrection.

• 30:35Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 30:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:36Bill Simmons?

  Well, it's believable, action hero, probably hard to cast in certain movies because like you can't put her with Tom Cruise.

• 30:44Speaker 02

  Right.

• 30:45Bill Simmons?

  The guy's gotta be like five, 10 and up.

• 30:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:48Bill Simmons?

  Uh, speaking of guys, our guy Harrison Ford.

• 30:52Speaker 02

  It's, it's really.

• 30:53Speaker 03

  As we know, our really good friend Mallory Rubin.

• 30:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:56Speaker 03

  Loves Harrison Ford more than, I'm gonna give that to her. Anyone else on this planet, her, she thinks the, the most attractive Harrison Ford has ever been is in Witness canonically. This is peak Harrison Ford.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  This is my hottest take in honor of Mallory Rubin.

• 31:12Bill Simmons?

  Bang it out now.

• 31:13Speaker 02

  My, and, and also in honor of Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. No, he could not. This is the hottest he's ever, he's ever been.

• 31:20Speaker 03

  This is the hottest he's ever been.

• 31:21Speaker 02

  Like, keep your Han Solo, keep your Indy. I really, I mean, the Witness, it's tough and Mallory did give me her spot and so I feel bad and the Sam Cooke is powerful.

• 31:32Bill Simmons?

  No, she don't feel bad.

• 31:33Speaker 03

  She loves working girl.

• 31:34Speaker 02

  She does. She does love working girl.

• 31:36Speaker 03

  What is, what is he like?

• 31:38Bill Simmons?

  And we're doing Witness for her and she can do Harrison Ford for an hour. Joanna and I are horrified.

• 31:43Speaker 03

  Inside of the hottest he's ever been inside of a movie.

• 31:47Speaker 02

  Right.

• 31:48Speaker 03

  What's the hottest moment for Harrison Ford inside of this movie?

• 31:51Speaker 02

  Well, it's a, it's a little obvious, but when he's

• 31:54Speaker 03

  The shirt changing?

• 31:55Speaker 02

  And then kinda, you know, the audience is cheering and he's also, I like, I like that he takes this role. It's a, it's a nothing role. He's just there to like be handsome and support her and he does it with such charm. And is like, sure, I'll just do whatever you need. And that scene where he's just like, okay, I guess I'll get shirtless and, you know, make fun of myself and let a, a office of women clap for me. I find that appealing.

• 32:19Speaker 03

  The shirtless scene is very good. I would, I, I see that and I will, I will raise you

• 32:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:24Speaker 03

  A bit of Suzuki on the corner of his mouth, being emotionally vulnerable about how he needs this trade.

• 32:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:29Speaker 03

  He needs this.

• 32:30Speaker 02

  No, that's true. He is a little more open. He's a little goofy in this. There's like almost a little Jimmy Stewart in him.

• 32:36Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 32:36Speaker 02

  Which I wouldn't say typically is my type. So I guess I gravitate towards the slightly more, you know, macho asshole version of him. Like, you know, I told, I promised myself when we met, we'd drink tequila. Is a line that would work on me 10 out of 10 times.

• 32:52Speaker 03

  Such a good line.

• 32:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:53Speaker 03

  Um, I have a question.

• 32:55Bill Simmons?

  He's 45 when they filmed this.

• 32:56Speaker 02

  Looks incredible.

• 32:57Speaker 03

  I have heard conflicting reports. So a couple of years ago, I read a Harrison Ford biography where he talked about, they talked about this movie and his initial response to being offered this role was, I don't want to take this role. It's her picture. Why would I take this role? It's her movie. It wouldn't be my movie. And that the, the way it was depicted in that book, they then give the role to Alec Baldwin.

• 33:18Speaker 02

  Right.

• 33:18Speaker 03

  And then he goes, actually, I want the movie. Then they bump Alec Baldwin down.

• 33:22Bill Simmons?

  That is true.

• 33:23Speaker 03

  The, well, the other story I've heard is that it was a budgetary thing.

• 33:27Bill Simmons?

  But it's fine.

• 33:27Speaker 02

  Well, yeah. Well, and also all the Mike Nichols stuff. We have, this is directed.

• 33:31Bill Simmons?

  Mike Nichols is doing that next.

• 33:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. But that Nichols did want Baldwin and then the studio was like, Melanie Griffith and Alec Baldwin aren't enough of names. So.

• 33:42Bill Simmons?

  You guys are stomping over cast ones.

• 33:44Speaker 02

  I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

• 33:46Speaker 03

  The casting.

• 33:46Speaker 02

  I know. And I did my hottest thing already.

• 33:49Bill Simmons?

  Baldwin had it.

• 33:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:51Bill Simmons?

  And then they called him and they said.

• 33:52Speaker 03

  To Nick.

• 33:53Bill Simmons?

  Hey, bad news.

• 33:54Speaker 03

  But guess what? He's great as Nick.

• 33:56Bill Simmons?

  He's, he's fine.

• 33:56Speaker 03

  He's a really, really great ball.

• 33:58Bill Simmons?

  His career was fine, at least until Rust.

• 34:01Speaker 03

  This and Beetlejuice.

• 34:02Bill Simmons?

  Too soon? Sorry.

• 34:03Speaker 03

  This and Beetlejuice together? Come on. It's great.

• 34:07Bill Simmons?

  To back up your Harrison Ford point. I present to you this Nora Dunn story.

• 34:12Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 34:12Bill Simmons?

  That I'm gonna read. We all had such a crush on him. One time Harrison walked up to me and said, I hear that you're working on a different project and that's why you're working today. What are you working on? I could barely speak. I said, I'm working on Saturday Night Live. He said, oh yeah, sorry, I haven't seen it. What an amazing, anyway.

• 34:30Speaker 02

  Is it good?

• 34:31Bill Simmons?

  It's been out for 13 years at that point.

• 34:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:33Bill Simmons?

  And I go, oh, it's not that good, laughs. I disowned everything about myself. I even had my hand in my pocket wrenching off my wedding ring. I turned into a complete ignoramus. I came on very late that night, 5:00 in the morning. My husband was in his bed. He said, I'm glad you're home. I have a better half, blah, blah, blah. And she goes, I was such a traitor because I was blown away by Harrison Ford. He was in such great shape and such an absolutely perfect movie star. The whole package.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. Agreed.

• 34:58Bill Simmons?

  Nora Dunn.

• 34:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:59Bill Simmons?

  By all accounts, one of the most unfriendly actions of the 80s and 90s. Just completely all in on Harrison Ford. His 80s, just wanted to mention this.

• 35:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:10Bill Simmons?

  Not that people who listen to this podcast wouldn't know this, but two Raiders of the Lost Ark movies. Actually a third, because he made the third.

• 35:18Speaker 02

  Last Christmas it came out right after this.

• 35:20Bill Simmons?

  So three.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:21Bill Simmons?

  Two Star Wars, Blade Runner, Witness, Mosquito Coast, Frantic, and then this movie. That's all in the 80s, just from 80 to 89, just banging them out.

• 35:33Speaker 02

  This man does not have an Oscar.

• 35:35Bill Simmons?

  Banging it out.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  It is a crime.

• 35:36Bill Simmons?

  They're gonna give him the.

• 35:38Speaker 02

  No, I want a.

• 35:39Bill Simmons?

  Irving G. Thalberg.

• 35:41Speaker 02

  I want it on stage.

• 35:42Speaker 03

  What?

• 35:43Bill Simmons?

  What would his Oscar have been?

• 35:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, what would you give it for?

• 35:46Bill Simmons?

  Regarding Henry?

• 35:47Speaker 02

  Fugitive.

• 35:48Speaker 03

  By the way, I love Regarding Henry, Mosquito Coast.

• 35:50Speaker 02

  I liked, I saw it. I like your joke. It's a recurring bit regarding Henry. He's, you know what?

• 35:56Speaker 03

  I like Regarding Henry.

• 35:57Speaker 02

  I don't like it, but he's good in it.

• 35:58Bill Simmons?

  Is this your audition for the Regarding Henry?

• 36:00Speaker 03

  I'm just saying, I love.

• 36:01Bill Simmons?

  It's on the list.

• 36:02Speaker 03

  I love Regarding Henry.

• 36:03Speaker 02

  Flawed, but lovable. He is, like, he goes some new places, you know? And you never really see him be that sweet.

• 36:10Bill Simmons?

  The cast in this movie, I love Harrison Ford.

• 36:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:13Speaker 03

  Can brain damage make you a better person? That's the question Regarding Henry dares to ask.

• 36:18Bill Simmons?

  The answer is yes.

• 36:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:19Bill Simmons?

  Harrison Ford, I think, might have the highest approval rating of any actor of all time. Craig, what's your relationship with Harrison Ford? He's my number one favorite actor ever. Yeah.

• 36:27Speaker 02

  Okay, good.

• 36:27Bill Simmons?

  Every generation loves Harrison Ford.

• 36:29Speaker 02

  It's nice that it's been handed down.

• 36:30Bill Simmons?

  The rule with this stuff is if you're at a party and somebody said, you know, I fucking hate Harrison Ford. People would be like. Why? What did, like, you just wouldn't believe it. Everybody loves Harrison Ford. Not even the airplane antics could bring him down, you know? Not even, he's had a lot of weird moments the last 20 years.

• 36:48Speaker 03

  I think he actually has a higher Q rating than even like a Tom Hanks, genuinely.

• 36:51Bill Simmons?

  Oh, 100%.

• 36:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. He's Indiana Jones and Han Solo, among all the other things that he wanted to do.

• 36:57Bill Simmons?

  He's the most popular actor of my lifetime.

• 36:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:59Bill Simmons?

  Now, some of that helps because he was been in some of the most popular movies of all time. He's also just so cool.

• 37:06Speaker 03

  And like, is still cool.

• 37:07Bill Simmons?

  Chris Ryan thinks Luke Wilson could have had his career. Other people in this cast, Alec Baldwin, you mentioned him. Yeah. Young Alec Baldwin.

• 37:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:15Bill Simmons?

  We'll cover him later.

• 37:15Speaker 03

  Not landing Alec Baldwin.

• 37:17Bill Simmons?

  Joan Cusack, nominated for an Oscar, which I found strange, but very good. It's, it's grown up, you know?

• 37:22Speaker 03

  I would give it to her.

• 37:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 37:25Bill Simmons?

  Nora Dunne mentioned Oliver Platt.

• 37:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:28Bill Simmons?

  Starting his role of like, this guy's in an office or in a business. Is he a good guy or a bad guy? Is he gonna be the villain in this movie or like the sidekick? Who knows? Spacey, Olympia Dukakis is in this.

• 37:41Speaker 03

  One scene. The year after winning the Oscar, she's wonderful.

• 37:46Bill Simmons?

  We gotta take a break and then we'll talk about Mike Nichols. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever finish a movie and the next thing you know, you're totally obsessed? That's happened to me. Like, I'm talking about ordering a book about 70s film lighting. You done that, Sierra? I have, yeah. Or buying the soundtrack on vinyl? Kind of obsessed, whatever it is. Prime helps you get more out of whatever passions you're into, or getting into. Head to amazon.com/prime and follow your obsession wherever it goes. All right, this movie's directed by Mike Nichols, who

• 38:19Bill Simmons?

  had such a fascinating career that Mark Harris wrote, I think, one of the best Hollywood biographies I ever read. It's so good. Four years ago about him. And it was one of those careers where it's like,

• 38:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:29Bill Simmons?

  It was like, I always thought this guy was interesting. And then it's like 500 pages of how interesting and bizarre his life was. And this, so his run in the 80s, just from 83 to 89, was Silkwood, Harpburn, Biloxi Blues, Working Girl, Postcards from the Edge, and then Regarding Henry, 91. But movies that Just intersect with you, your brain.

• 38:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:51Bill Simmons?

  Your life. This is like, is he like your favorite director?

• 38:54Speaker 02

  One of them. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that of all those movies that you mentioned, all starring or centered on women, which in the eighties, you know, you didn't always get that. He was famously a comedian, part of Nichols and May.

• 39:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 39:10Speaker 02

  And then, you know, moved into a theater legend, moved into directing films, Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf and then The Graduate. And because he has so much theater work, he's just, he's like really good at people talking and characters and people being believable and in real life situations and like the world around them is always very well observed. And, you know, we say all the time, they don't do it like they used to. But Mike Nichols types of movies where people are just trying to get something in life and being people, and they are people that you recognize. He is fantastic at it.

• 39:48Speaker 03

  There's this personal piece that didn't click for me until I reread the section of the Harris biography is that this is when he gets together with Diane Sawyer, who, you know, he considers the love of his life.

• 39:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 39:59Speaker 03

  They describe them as like giddy teenagers. They're so in love in this section in the book. And so the fact that he's like, found the great love of his life, right as he's making this like beautiful love story inside of Working Girl is really sweet.

• 40:10Speaker 02

  And there is also like, so I think that Mike Nichols biography, which is wonderful, so much of it is like, his life seems so great. I mean, he was like the creme, la creme in New York, friends with Nora Ephron, married Diane Sawyer, like has a house in Connecticut and like raises horses for some reason. I don't even really know what that is all about. Like a very like educated, fancy, like wealthy, you know, New York society guy. But he is in fact, like a German immigrant, like worked through all of that. And for me, the biography pointed out like, the test character.

• 40:46Speaker 02

  Is relates to him. Yeah.

• 40:47Speaker 03

  An immigrant story.

• 40:48Bill Simmons?

  It's a good point.

• 40:49Speaker 02

  A lot of shots of her going past and forth the Statue of Liberty. Like, it's not subtle, once you see that. And this person, an outsider, who like, wants to be in the finer things, like, wants to be a part of this, like, great quote unquote, American, whatever, um, definitely comes from him as well.

• 41:04Speaker 03

  It's interesting, I was watching a Candace Bergen interview where she was talking about his horses.

• 41:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:09Speaker 03

  And she was like, I think he's surrounded himself with wealth to sort of inoculate him, like, because he was so afraid of going back to

• 41:15Speaker 02

  Right.

• 41:15Speaker 03

  that sort of humble immigrant roots. And so he's just sort of like, I've got horses.

• 41:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:20Speaker 03

  I eat caviar, I'm BFF with Carly Simon, like, all this sort of stuff like that. It's just sort of like, I'm never going back.

• 41:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he was big on chartered planes and just

• 41:29Speaker 03

  Airman.

• 41:29Bill Simmons?

  Kind of obscene wealth.

• 41:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:31Speaker 02

  It seems like he lived well. How about that?

• 41:34Bill Simmons?

  The book made a big, that was a big piece of the second half of the book, is he's so kind of obsessed with just garnering wealth. Because he wants to fly private everywhere he goes. He wants to stay in like the bay. So he ends up taking some, some projects that basically just for the paycheck. And his nineties get pretty strange.

• 41:54Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 41:54Bill Simmons?

  Um, he makes some, some bad ones and basically does some money grab stuff, but

• 41:58Speaker 03

  But also the masterpieces regarding Henry, so, you know.

• 42:01Bill Simmons?

  But he, he belongs to this different era, though, of when like these, these like very powerful creative guys felt like they ran New York. And now it's kind of over, like, Graydon Carter retired and Lorne Michaels is eighty, but you had this run in the eighties, nineties, where it was like Mike Nichols, Graydon Carter.

• 42:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:21Bill Simmons?

  Mike Nichols, there was like these six, seven of them, and it felt like all of New York culture just kind of ran through all of them.

• 42:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, Harrison Ford talks about

• 42:29Bill Simmons?

  They're all friends with each other.

• 42:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, Harrison Ford talks about how like every day they shot, they also went out to these like really long lunches at the best restaurants and had the wittiest conversation. And that was what it was like to work with Mike Nichols.

• 42:40Bill Simmons?

  And Spy Magazine was starting to even parody some of his stuff at this point, but, uh, Nichols, fascinating guy. I think When I think about his movies, especially when you look at all these in a row, just really good with lead female characters.

• 42:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:52Bill Simmons?

  Just wanna, like, he just, for some reason, and they all loved him.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  Works with Meryl Streep three times.

• 42:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 42:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, in that, in that decade, yeah. And then, you know, she comes back for, yeah, Angelina.

• 43:04Bill Simmons?

  And a real ladies man, too, which, you know, I wouldn't call him, like, breathtakingly handsome, but it seemed like the, uh,

• 43:09Speaker 03

  I think he and Melanie have the same number of marriages.

• 43:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Yeah, I mean, he has, he had a lot going on in, uh, really his whole life until he found out.

• 43:18Speaker 03

  But yeah, so like, to that point, when they gave, when they gave him the sort of like AFI award, every single tribute speech was given by a woman.

• 43:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:26Speaker 03

  Yeah. It was like Nora Ephron, Elaine May, Meryl Streep, Cher, Candace Bergen, like, yeah.

• 43:33Bill Simmons?

  There was an oral history, I didn't read it, it came out last year, except I felt like the biography was good with Mike Nichols, I didn't really need to double down. But there was an oral history, and it's called something like Mike Nichols as told by 150 of his closest friends.

• 43:45Speaker 02

  Right, right, right, right.

• 43:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 43:46Bill Simmons?

  July was a really good title.

• 43:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:48Bill Simmons?

  Uh, screenplay was written by Kevin Wade, who went to New York City in 84 and saw all these queer women walking through the streets in tennis shoes, carrying his high heels, and it's like, that feels like a movie.

• 44:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:02Bill Simmons?

  Then we go, ends up getting nominated for six Academy Awards. Best Picture, Best Director, doesn't win. Best Actress, Griffith loses. Best Supporting Actress, Weaver and Cusack.

• 44:12Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 44:13Bill Simmons?

  And only wins for Carly Simon's, "Let the river run."

• 44:21Bill Simmons?

  One of only, I think this is right.

• 44:24Speaker 03

  Guys, how are the levels on that?

• 44:27Bill Simmons?

  Only this and Bruce Springsteen's Philadelphia.

• 44:32Bill Simmons?

  I think, at least in my research, maybe there's been one in the last couple of years, they didn't update, but won Best Original Song, Oscars, Grammy, Golden Globe, all three.

• 44:39Speaker 03

  Oh, okay. Wow.

• 44:42Bill Simmons?

  Not like you wouldn't know it's a Carly Simon song?

• 44:45Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 44:46Bill Simmons?

  Right? You would think it's, it could be like.

• 44:49Speaker 03

  No.

• 44:49Bill Simmons?

  It's just a popular, would you, does it sound like Carly Simon to you though?

• 44:53Speaker 03

  I don't know. I don't remember a time where I didn't know this was a Carly Simon song. So this just is the Carly, but like, the way that she hums throughout the movie is very Gilmore Girls to me. You know what I mean? So like, all of that is connected in its own special way.

• 45:08Bill Simmons?

  More DNA for this movie, Gilmore Girls.

• 45:10Speaker 03

  But I think that like, um, that's Carole King, but it's like, it's, it's a very similar like vibe. And I think what's interesting, according to my research is that originally she wrote a bunch of songs to this movie. And they were all very explicitly telling you what was happening in the plot.

• 45:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 45:25Speaker 03

  And so they just cut.

• 45:26Bill Simmons?

  She's just trying to get a hair.

• 45:29Speaker 03

  Time to cut your hair, you know, whatever. So.

• 45:34Bill Simmons?

  Best picture, Rain Man beats it.

• 45:36Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 45:38Bill Simmons?

  Good category that year. Rain Man, Axon Alturas, Dangerous Liaisons, Mississippi Burning, Working Girl.

• 45:44Speaker 03

  I'd probably give it to Dangerous Liaisons, but I would give it to Working Girl over Rain Man.

• 45:47Speaker 02

  I would as well.

• 45:48Bill Simmons?

  Dangerous Liaisons person?

• 45:48Speaker 03

  Oh, I love Dangerous Liaisons. Yeah.

• 45:50Bill Simmons?

  You, is that you throwing your hat in the rain?

• 45:52Speaker 03

  No, I'm not audition, just every time I say like a movie doesn't mean.

• 45:55Bill Simmons?

  No, cause I love that movie.

• 45:56Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's a great movie.

• 45:57Bill Simmons?

  I don't think CR, it's too, you know.

• 45:59Speaker 02

  It's too risque. Yeah, he doesn't work blue.

• 46:01Bill Simmons?

  CR turns into like that timid Irish Catholic guy.

• 46:04Speaker 03

  Glenn Close, Malkovich, come on.

• 46:06Speaker 02

  It's good. I still go for Working Man. I mean, Working Girl over Rain Man.

• 46:10Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, Working Girl over Rain Man.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  Rain Man was like a real thing.

• 46:13Bill Simmons?

  Rain Man was a phenomenon.

• 46:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:14Bill Simmons?

  This was too, but Rain Man was like a phenomenon.

• 46:17Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 46:18Bill Simmons?

  I think.

• 46:18Speaker 03

  We were constantly quoting Rain Man. We weren't quoting Working Girl necessarily.

• 46:22Bill Simmons?

  Well, Barry Levinson wins for best directing.

• 46:25Speaker 02

  My dad's favorite director.

• 46:27Bill Simmons?

  And Hoppen wins for best actor.

• 46:29Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:30Bill Simmons?

  Best actress.

• 46:34Bill Simmons?

  Melanie Griffith loses to Jodie Foster. Glenn Close is in there for Dangerous Liaisons, which is a fucking incredible performance.

• 46:41Speaker 03

  That's the winner, honestly.

• 46:42Bill Simmons?

  I think that's the winner.

• 46:43Speaker 02

  But is that where her, like, trajectory of always being the loser starts? Is that's the one?

• 46:50Bill Simmons?

  Her taking off the makeup at the end?

• 46:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, she's very good.

• 46:54Speaker 03

  I think it it took like a couple more nominations before everyone she became the Susan Lucci of Oscars.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  That's where we could have turned it around, right?

• 47:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, before it started, honestly.

• 47:03Bill Simmons?

  Meryl Streep in A Cry in the Dark. I don't remember that movie.

• 47:07Speaker 02

  That's not, is that Dingo Ate My Baby?

• 47:08Speaker 03

  The Dingo Ate My Baby.

• 47:09Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that's it.

• 47:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, and then Sigourney got nominated for Girls in the Mist. All right. No Best Actor Supporting, but Best Actress, Cusack and Sigourney. So Sigourney with the double nomination. Always loving that happen. Strong here.

• 47:24Speaker 02

  This is also one of the rare three women nominated from one movie.

• 47:28Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 47:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't think that there, it's like maybe All About Eve is.

• 47:31Speaker 03

  Chicago?

• 47:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's, it's only happened a couple times.

• 47:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Catherine Zeta-Jones in Perdida.

• 47:37Bill Simmons?

  Frances McDormand, you might have heard of her.

• 47:38Speaker 03

  I have.

• 47:38Bill Simmons?

  Mississippi Burning.

• 47:41Bill Simmons?

  Pfeiffer. Dangerous Liaisons. And then Gina Davis wins for The Accidental Tourist. Well, don't, don't, no, don't save it.

• 47:56Bill Simmons?

  Some really good ones didn't get nominated that year. I just want to point out, I don't, I think Joan Cusack's really good in this movie. I also don't think it's that important of a part. And I can't believe she got nominated because Elizabeth Perkins in Big?

• 48:09Speaker 02

  Hmm, she's pretty good.

• 48:11Speaker 03

  Wouldn't that be lead?

• 48:13Bill Simmons?

  I think you could throw in that Supporting. Susan Sarandon, Bull Durham, not nominated?

• 48:18Speaker 03

  Once again, that's lead.

• 48:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:19Speaker 03

  But she should have been nominated.

• 48:21Speaker 02

  Is it lead?

• 48:21Bill Simmons?

  I think you could have shoehorned it into Supporting to try to get.

• 48:25Speaker 02

  Are you a category purist?

• 48:26Speaker 03

  Not necessarily, but I don't think they played such fast and loose games with category fraud back in the eighties.

• 48:34Bill Simmons?

  Here's where it goes, this is.

• 48:35Speaker 03

  I don't mind it at the end of the day, especially if someone, like, hasn't gotten an award and can get an easy one in Supporting where they can't compete in Lead.

• 48:43Bill Simmons?

  What about Hopkins, 16 Minutes for Hannibal Lecter, Best Actor? 16 Minutes of the movie?

• 48:48Speaker 03

  That's fine with me.

• 48:49Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 48:50Speaker 03

  I support it.

• 48:50Bill Simmons?

  Three, three men who didn't get nominated? Charles Grodin in Midnight Run.

• 48:55Speaker 02

  That's tough.

• 48:55Bill Simmons?

  Alan Rickman in Die Hard.

• 48:57Speaker 02

  Also tough.

• 48:59Bill Simmons?

  Malkovich, Dangerous Liaisons. What the fuck are we doing?

• 49:03Speaker 03

  They nominated Dangerous Liaison for Best Picture and did not nominate Malkovich is wild. Truly wild. But what's funny is like you mentioned Die Hard. And you say Die Hard to me now. I was like, well, Die Hard is not getting a nominee for something. But Working Girl is such an improbable. Doesn't it seem like now? Working Girl feels like, I mean, not an Enora year necessarily, but like. You're like, oh, this is just an 80s rom com. And I think growing up, it wouldn't have occurred to me that this was a six.

• 49:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I was surprised by six, but it was a massive movie.

• 49:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:35Bill Simmons?

  Malkovich really hurts.

• 49:37Speaker 03

  It does.

• 49:37Bill Simmons?

  I don't understand that one. We saw this movie when I was in college. It was right when I was really getting into movies from like a bigger picture way. And we just, we all left the theater and we're like, holy fucking that movie.

• 49:50Speaker 03

  Dangerous Liaisons.

• 49:51Bill Simmons?

  And we were like.

• 49:51Speaker 03

  Uma.

• 49:52Bill Simmons?

  That Malkovich. Yeah. I mean, just everything. But we were like. That was like, is that like the greatest acting performance of all? Like, we didn't know any better.

• 49:59Speaker 03

  Who was nominated?

• 50:02Bill Simmons?

  So Best Supporting, Kevin Kline won for Fish That Saved Wanda, Al Guinness, Little Dorrit, Martin Landau, Tucker, The Man in His Dream. River Phoenix running an empty. I don't mind that. And then Dean Stockwell Married to the Mob.

• 50:14Speaker 03

  Okay. So there's just some old timers.

• 50:16Bill Simmons?

  They just, they.

• 50:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, and Kevin Kline.

• 50:19Bill Simmons?

  And Kevin Kline wins.

• 50:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:21Bill Simmons?

  Groden, I think bothers me the most other than Malkovich, but regardless. $28 million budget for Working Girl made $103 million. And then lived on for the next 38 years and counting and then son.

• 50:32Speaker 03

  Guys, we used to live in a better world. Where Working Girl could make over a hundred million dollars and get nominated for six Oscars. Yeah.

• 50:41Bill Simmons?

  Well, Roger Ebert, four stars.

• 50:44Speaker 03

  Raj.

• 50:46Bill Simmons?

  The plot of Working Girl is put together like clockwork. Carries you along while you're watching it, but reconstruct it later and you'll see the craftsmanship.

• 50:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's called Cinderella, but that's fine.

• 51:00Bill Simmons?

  Working Girl is Nichols returning to the top of his form and Griffith finding hers.

• 51:05Speaker 03

  Agreed. Yeah.

• 51:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, solid.

• 51:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, because they didn't like Biloxi Blues very much. Yeah. I defend Heartburn. Big time, even though it was not well received. I like to think about Heartburn more than I like watching Heartburn.

• 51:18Bill Simmons?

  Craig, who's Melanie Griffith for your generation? I mean, Dakota Johnson? I don't know.

• 51:23Speaker 03

  Yeah. I think that's fair.

• 51:27Speaker 02

  I mean, she kind of, you know.

• 51:28Bill Simmons?

  She's single.

• 51:28Speaker 02

  Similar-ish beginnings.

• 51:31Bill Simmons?

  Let's do the categories.

• 51:32Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 51:33Speaker 03

  We just saw a Dakota Johnson movie earlier this week together.

• 51:35Speaker 02

  She has really shiny hair.

• 51:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:37Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 51:39Speaker 03

  But a similar smile.

• 51:40Speaker 02

  She does, but I, when we were talking about Don Johnson's hair, I was like, oh, maybe the hair is from Don Johnson.

• 51:45Speaker 03

  Yeah. And the smile is from Melanie.

• 51:46Speaker 02

  It's really, really shiny.

• 51:47Bill Simmons?

  What a legend. Most rewatchable scene. Opening credits, I'm just throwing it out.

• 51:52Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 51:52Bill Simmons?

  Just really good.

• 51:53Speaker 02

  100%.

• 51:54Bill Simmons?

  With the Carly Simon sign and the Statue of Liberty and you get to see all of New York and then it's like, ah, there are the Twin Towers and then they're standing on the ferry.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then it goes right into them on the ferry and the shoes and the, you know, they get that in in the first few minutes.

• 52:07Bill Simmons?

  It feels like it's cheesy.

• 52:09Speaker 02

  Well, it's on my list.

• 52:10Bill Simmons?

  No, we have, we have a bunch.

• 52:11Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 52:12Bill Simmons?

  It feels like it's gonna be cheesy and then it's not cheesy. It's like, I'm actually enjoying this little.

• 52:17Speaker 03

  And you liked it both times because you said you liked watching this movie the second time more than the first time.

• 52:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 52:21Speaker 03

  Did you, what did you bump on the first time?

• 52:24Bill Simmons?

  Because I was just, every time it's like the hair and the clothes.

• 52:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 52:28Bill Simmons?

  And you're just like, oh, my God, this movie feels.

• 52:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:30Bill Simmons?

  My son walked by the TV at one point and he's like, what the fuck is this movie? Like, he was just completely confused by it.

• 52:36Speaker 03

  He's like, is this a Mad Max movie?

• 52:38Bill Simmons?

  He was like, what is this?

• 52:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:42Bill Simmons?

  All right, next one I have is Bob from Arbitrage in the limo with Tess. Because it's so fascinating to see Spacey. We're gonna party. I'm starting a new category.

• 52:55Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:57Bill Simmons?

  The Kevin Spacey doing cocaine, showing porn and inappropriately sexually harassing Tess in a limo award for craziest foreshadowing of a real life event.

• 53:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yes.

• 53:06Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if whoever had that category out again.

• 53:08Speaker 02

  I had this in what aged the best.

• 53:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's like, wow.

• 53:11Speaker 02

  They knew.

• 53:12Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 53:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, Mike Nichols, perceptive.

• 53:14Bill Simmons?

  I really liked that when she types in David Lutz is a sleazoid pimp with a tiny little deck.

• 53:19Speaker 03

  Sleazoid pimp is incredible. It's one of my most 1987 things. The word sleazoid, which we don't use anymore, and that's sad.

• 53:27Bill Simmons?

  Tess in Sigourney's office, I'm just gonna call her Sigourney throughout the movie.

• 53:30Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 53:30Bill Simmons?

  I know she's Catherine. She's talking German?

• 53:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:33Speaker 02

  Oh, sure, when she calls to make the, uh.

• 53:35Speaker 03

  She's like, huh.

• 53:37Bill Simmons?

  She's just really turning it on, but then gives the Tess. You don't get anywhere in this world by waiting for what you want to come to you. Make it happen.

• 53:47Speaker 03

  While wearing her ski boots over her nylons. Yeah. Before she gets on the phone and starts speaking in German, she says, well, did you tell them it was me?

• 53:57Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 53:57Speaker 03

  Which is just like, that's some, that's some special energy to bring to the world.

• 54:00Bill Simmons?

  I also like how Melanie Griffith is reacting off of what a pompous, like, piece of shit boss she is, but she's just kind of.

• 54:07Speaker 03

  She's absorbing.

• 54:08Bill Simmons?

  She's trying to absorb and she's actually like genuinely interested in her answers.

• 54:12Speaker 02

  I really like when she asks Sigourney, like, well, what happens if he doesn't propose? And Sigourney goes, I really don't think that's a variable.

• 54:19Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 54:20Speaker 03

  And I'm me, so.

• 54:22Bill Simmons?

  Also, Good Office, get a nice little shot.

• 54:24Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 54:25Bill Simmons?

  Can hear the ferry in the background.

• 54:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 54:26Bill Simmons?

  All right, so you got that, uh, Tess goes to the bar and meets Harrison Ford.

• 54:30Speaker 03

  That's mine.

• 54:31Speaker 02

  Obviously.

• 54:32Speaker 03

  That's my number one.

• 54:32Speaker 02

  100%.

• 54:33Speaker 03

  I have a head for business and a bod for sin.

• 54:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:36Speaker 03

  All-timer.

• 54:38Speaker 07

  I've been looking for you.

• 54:41Speaker 04

  Why, do you know me?

• 54:43Speaker 07

  No, no. I promised myself that when I saw you, I would get to know you. You're the first woman I've seen at one of these damn things that dresses like a woman, not like a woman thinks a man would dress if he was a woman.

• 54:55Speaker 04

  Thank you, I guess.

• 54:57Speaker 07

  What are you doing here?

• 54:59Speaker 04

  Actually, I'm looking for someone myself. His name is Jack Traynor. He works at Dewey Stone. Do you know if he's here?

• 55:06Speaker 07

  Why are you looking for him?

• 55:10Bill Simmons?

  You're the first woman I've seen at one of these things that dresses like a woman, not like a woman thinks a man would dress if.

• 55:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:17Bill Simmons?

  I thought that's a good line.

• 55:18Speaker 02

  The costuming throughout is great, but you see all the other women in their suits. And they clock her and look at her, like, what's wrong with her?

• 55:25Speaker 03

  She shows up and thinking that she completely misdressed for this occasion, which she kind of did, but.

• 55:29Bill Simmons?

  She looks, she looks great.

• 55:31Speaker 03

  Oh, this is the best.

• 55:31Speaker 02

  She looks incredible.

• 55:33Speaker 03

  So good.

• 55:34Bill Simmons?

  Really good Harrison Ford double take shot.

• 55:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:39Bill Simmons?

  This seems really good. I, this has one of my favorite moves that you can do in a rom-com. The guy. Not saying who he is.

• 55:46Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 55:47Bill Simmons?

  When he meets our lead character is just like, that works 98% of the time.

• 55:52Speaker 03

  Uh, the costume designer, Anne Roth, one of the things that she said was like, I cheated with that dress. She was like, because no way could Sigourney Weaver wear that dress because it's way too short on her. Sigourney Weaver is so tall that it would just look silly on her, but she was like, who cares?

• 56:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:05Speaker 03

  It's fine.

• 56:06Bill Simmons?

  Craig, when you write your AI rom com. Okay. Put in something about the guy who meets the lead character.

• 56:12Speaker 03

  And lies to her.

• 56:13Bill Simmons?

  Doesn't admit that he's the character. Yeah, I didn't tell Liz who I was when I met her. She's like, don't you work the ringers? I say, no.

• 56:23Bill Simmons?

  The, uh, I don't, maybe I, I might be alone on this for a rewatchable scene, but I like the party when, when Nick and Tess get in the fight after. And he goes, who the fuck died and made you Grace Kelly?

• 56:37Speaker 03

  That's a good line.

• 56:37Bill Simmons?

  And then she comes back with, I am that steak. You can't just order me.

• 56:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:41Bill Simmons?

  It's just fucking great screenwriting, but I like that scene. I like when they fight.

• 56:45Speaker 02

  It's good. She looks good in that one, too. The, I, because the incident where they had to shut down production happened on Staten Island. I, the whole time I was just watching, I was like, is this the one? Is this one? I don't think that that's the one.

• 56:57Speaker 03

  I think it's when she's, they're walking with a pizza box.

• 56:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:59Speaker 03

  Oh, you think it's the wedding?

• 57:00Bill Simmons?

  No, I think it was the wedding because they had, that was the one they had to delay by a day.

• 57:04Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 57:05Bill Simmons?

  But I think it was the wedding where she's dressed in the bridesmaid's outfit.

• 57:08Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 57:09Speaker 02

  Do you think she was so tanked because she couldn't stand being in that bright turquoise bridesmaid dress?

• 57:14Bill Simmons?

  Might have been that.

• 57:14Speaker 03

  That was tough. Yeah.

• 57:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Uh, I really loved every single moment of the luau wedding party.

• 57:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course.

• 57:22Bill Simmons?

  The drinks are great.

• 57:23Speaker 02

  Dun, dun, dun.

• 57:25Bill Simmons?

  The bar vendors and the waiters.

• 57:26Speaker 02

  I went to a wedding over Memorial Day and they played that song and I was like, this is a working girl wedding song. Where am I?

• 57:32Bill Simmons?

  Why didn't you have a luau wedding?

• 57:34Speaker 02

  Uh, because we didn't drink big enough, you know?

• 57:36Bill Simmons?

  Any regrets? Would you do it over again?

• 57:38Speaker 02

  Because Zach planned it. So I, you know, I wanted to do City Hall and he planned the wedding. But maybe we should do a renewal of vows luau.

• 57:45Bill Simmons?

  A renewal vows luau wedding?

• 57:47Speaker 02

  That would be great.

• 57:48Bill Simmons?

  Can Joanna be invited?

• 57:49Speaker 02

  Please. I also, I never, I didn't have a 40th birthday party. So maybe it can be 40th birthday vow renewal luau situation.

• 57:57Speaker 03

  Working girl homage.

• 57:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's go.

• 57:59Speaker 03

  We need a tall, like, just red 40 drinks, whatever it is that Harrison was drinking.

• 58:04Speaker 02

  With the straws from Dunkin' Donuts.

• 58:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 58:07Bill Simmons?

  Craig, have you ever been to a themed wedding? Hmm, no. See, I think this was a 70s, 80s thing that went away. Cause we took weddings less seriously when I was a kid.

• 58:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:17Bill Simmons?

  And then they eventually had to become these big, serious, major events.

• 58:20Speaker 03

  I love that when the bride enters the bathroom in tears and she's like, my husband says it looks like Nicaragua.

• 58:27Speaker 03

  To be go too big.

• 58:29Bill Simmons?

  We get a Ricky Lake cameo out of nowhere.

• 58:31Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 58:32Speaker 03

  Duchovny's in this, too.

• 58:34Bill Simmons?

  Duchovny's in the scene when they fight.

• 58:36Speaker 03

  He's, he's also in the like surprise.

• 58:38Bill Simmons?

  Oh, he's in the wedding, too? Yeah.

• 58:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 58:40Bill Simmons?

  Duchovny's got this slicked back hair thing going on.

• 58:43Speaker 03

  It's his, uh, Don't Tell Mom the Babysitter's Dead hair.

• 58:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Um, I like when she dances with Trask, too. I like Trask, I think he's good.

• 58:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Couple more, Jack telling her where he got a scar. You guys talked about that scene earlier.

• 58:56Speaker 02

  No, no, that's a different shirtless scene.

• 58:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:59Speaker 02

  When after he's come back from Memphis and he's at the office.

• 59:02Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 59:03Speaker 02

  And he's on the phone.

• 59:04Bill Simmons?

  Gotcha.

• 59:04Speaker 02

  And so he's doing like the, like gym class, change the shirt while the phone thing, you know? It's great.

• 59:09Speaker 03

  And all the ladies in the office beyond, outside of his window, start cheering for him. And he's like, yeah, um, that was, you know, you like, uh, you imagine what offices are like, uh, growing up watching these things. So growing up watching like the Mary Tyler Moore show is like, okay, you always have a bottle of booze in the bottom drawer of your desk. And then watching this, I was like, and you have fresh shirts.

• 59:30Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 59:31Speaker 03

  In case you just flew back from Memphis.

• 59:32Bill Simmons?

  And shoes and sneakers.

• 59:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:34Bill Simmons?

  All kinds of things. Nobody would steal anything. I thought it was believable post-coitus bed talk with them. They usually ruin those scenes in rom-coms.

• 59:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was charming. I mean, well, oh my God.

• 59:48Bill Simmons?

  Just laughing hysterically, my favorite. Craig, we might have to break that scene down on Ringer Movies.

• 59:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:53Bill Simmons?

  I just, I have so many thoughts. It's one of the funniest two-minute scenes of this century. It's really, really good. Um, couple more. Jack visits Catherine with Tess hiding in the apartment. Yeah. I always like that when we have to do the Three's Company. Can Big Jack come out to play? Makes me laugh. The boardroom showdown, got that. The elevator showdown. Yeah. And then, uh, I really like when she meets the new assistant at the end. Oh, yeah. And that whole interaction is so good. Amy Aquino, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:23Speaker 04

  I, uh, I expect you to call me Tess. I don't expect you to fetch me coffee unless you're getting some for yourself. And, um,

• 1:00:34Speaker 04

  the rest will just make up as we go along. Okay?

• 1:00:41Bill Simmons?

  Does the thing about only get me coffee if you're also getting whatever she says? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's just like, oh, this is good. She's learned lessons. And the rest will make it up as we go along.

• 1:00:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:52Bill Simmons?

  And then Mike Nichols is like, but don't get too excited and just hand back. You're just a rat in the middle. Yeah, you're just a mouse in the, in the trap. All right. So what's your most rewatchable?

• 1:01:01Speaker 02

  Can I add one?

• 1:01:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:03Speaker 02

  So after they meet, Harrison Ford and Tess meet, and then she passes out from the valium and he takes her home and props her up in the chair and then is doing like a whole solo date with her.

• 1:01:16Speaker 07

  Would you like a blanket?

• 1:01:21Speaker 07

  I guess not.

• 1:01:24Speaker 07

  Uh, it's too late for coffee.

• 1:01:30Speaker 07

  Herb tea.

• 1:01:33Speaker 07

  Herb tea?

• 1:01:36Speaker 07

  I don't have any.

• 1:01:38Speaker 07

  It always sounds good when people offer it to me when I'm in your shape.

• 1:01:44Speaker 02

  He's like, would you like some nightcap? Would you like some tea? And she's flapping over. He is so funny. And he is just, I mean, he is acting against, you know, Melanie Griffith as a red doll.

• 1:01:54Speaker 03

  He's very funny. I do have it under What Age the Worst.

• 1:01:58Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:01:58Speaker 03

  But.

• 1:01:59Speaker 02

  But he didn't. And in the end, he did the right thing.

• 1:02:02Speaker 03

  Mostly. He took off her dress, which he didn't need to do. Got in the bed with her while he is also naked. I'm saying, put her on your bed, sleep on the couch.

• 1:02:09Speaker 02

  We don't know if he's naked. I'm with you on the couch.

• 1:02:12Speaker 03

  Bare leg, bare shirt. No shirt.

• 1:02:13Bill Simmons?

  So I had, I had for What Age the Worst for this whole thing? That they just wouldn't have this scene in the movie now?

• 1:02:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's true.

• 1:02:19Speaker 03

  But.

• 1:02:20Bill Simmons?

  But it was kind, there's kind of an innocence to it, but I appreciate it.

• 1:02:23Speaker 03

  When he says, would you like a nightcap? No. And he's like, would you like? He's like, this always makes me feel better when I'm in your position. Like, it is funny.

• 1:02:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:29Speaker 03

  It's really funny. That part is really funny.

• 1:02:31Speaker 02

  The whole thing about like the, the apartment may be not clean and like, I don't mind, but people who come like.

• 1:02:37Speaker 03

  It's very funny.

• 1:02:38Speaker 02

  It's really, really good Harrison Ford.

• 1:02:40Speaker 03

  It's very good.

• 1:02:40Speaker 02

  And, and good physical comedy.

• 1:02:42Speaker 03

  I would like to add the farce of Melanie Griffith pretending to be the boss. Joan Cusack pretending to be her secretary.

• 1:02:51Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:02:51Speaker 03

  While Morgan is trying to get in and Harrison Ford's in the office.

• 1:02:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:55Bill Simmons?

  So what do you have for most of the watchable?

• 1:02:57Speaker 02

  I mean, I'm, the opening, I think it's, I think the opening. That's hard, though. With the wedding and then also the elevators. Do I have to pick the whole movie?

• 1:03:08Bill Simmons?

  You have to pick. It's all part of the category.

• 1:03:09Speaker 02

  The elevators. The elevators is so good.

• 1:03:11Bill Simmons?

  And nobody's ever asked that on a rewatchables.

• 1:03:14Speaker 02

  I know, but I'm so excited. It took me like my second watch to find any like What Age the Worst. I was too happy.

• 1:03:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:21Speaker 02

  Um, I, I picked the wedding. I'm not the, uh, no, I picked the elevator. No, I picked the elevator at the end.

• 1:03:26Bill Simmons?

  Okay. What do you have, Joanna?

• 1:03:28Speaker 03

  Uh, the meet cute at the bar.

• 1:03:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:30Speaker 03

  Over.

• 1:03:31Speaker 02

  It's really good.

• 1:03:32Speaker 03

  I, I don't think he'd be ordering gold tequila, but other than that, ten, ten, no notes.

• 1:03:35Bill Simmons?

  I have the bar.

• 1:03:36Speaker 03

  Okay. Yeah.

• 1:03:37Bill Simmons?

  What's the most 1988 thing about this movie? I have seven candidates, but give me your best one.

• 1:03:43Speaker 02

  Um, the eyeshadow.

• 1:03:45Speaker 03

  The hair.

• 1:03:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:47Bill Simmons?

  So I had, I had all the haircuts.

• 1:03:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:51Bill Simmons?

  The makeup and the eye shadow.

• 1:03:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:53Speaker 03

  The shoulder, when she's, when they have sex and they're undressing each other in his apartment and she's got like a translucent blouse on, but you can see the shoulder pads.

• 1:04:01Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:04:02Speaker 03

  Through the translucent, yeah, that's shoulder pads.

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:04:04Bill Simmons?

  I have a couple more runners up because the hair is the answer.

• 1:04:08Speaker 03

  They feel great.

• 1:04:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:09Speaker 03

  What about the powder blue ruffled tux look at the wedding?

• 1:04:13Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:04:15Bill Simmons?

  The twin towers sadly.

• 1:04:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:04:19Bill Simmons?

  Uh, multiple women calling themselves secretary?

• 1:04:22Speaker 02

  Yes, that's true.

• 1:04:23Bill Simmons?

  I don't think that word's been said in 15 years.

• 1:04:26Speaker 02

  Well, Amy quite correctly said, yeah, if it's okay, I prefer assistant.

• 1:04:29Speaker 03

  Assistant, yeah.

• 1:04:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:30Bill Simmons?

  Lark cigarettes?

• 1:04:32Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:04:33Speaker 02

  Oh, good one.

• 1:04:33Bill Simmons?

  I don't even know what they.

• 1:04:34Speaker 02

  I don't know what those are either.

• 1:04:35Bill Simmons?

  Remember those.

• 1:04:35Speaker 03

  Me neither.

• 1:04:37Bill Simmons?

  A lead movie character regularly reading newspapers and magazines?

• 1:04:41Speaker 03

  What about radio being?

• 1:04:43Bill Simmons?

  Radio being a thing?

• 1:04:45Speaker 03

  A thing.

• 1:04:45Bill Simmons?

  But my number one other than the hair is Catherine's exercise bike.

• 1:04:49Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:04:50Bill Simmons?

  That, that she gets on it. That thing looks like it's out of like 1884.

• 1:04:56Speaker 03

  That's very good.

• 1:04:56Bill Simmons?

  Like, I think Taylor Sheridan used it for one of his go back shows. I think, I, I can't even, it looked like it weighed 140 pounds. It's like made of wood.

• 1:05:05Speaker 02

  I mean, it's clever though, because you're also like, you're sort of doing a crunch. You're using the core as you're, as you're pedaling. It looks hard.

• 1:05:12Bill Simmons?

  And they have like the old mid eighties TV with like the VCR on it. It was like, it's just the most eighties scene in all the movies somehow.

• 1:05:20Speaker 03

  The, uh, all the, all the computer monitors.

• 1:05:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:23Speaker 03

  All the printouts.

• 1:05:23Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:05:24Speaker 02

  The computers.

• 1:05:25Bill Simmons?

  The email, yeah, all that stuff. Okay. Let's take one more break and we'll do what's age the best.

• 1:05:30Speaker 08

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• 1:05:59Bill Simmons?

  All right, what's age the best? What do you got?

• 1:06:01Speaker 02

  Let the river run. The, the song and, and the score.

• 1:06:06Speaker 02

  And the way they use it, you know, when the chandelier is coming, when they're

• 1:06:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:10Speaker 02

  Coming down and it's just like the organ, like you're in a church, but it's let the river run and like, and then what's it for?

• 1:06:15Bill Simmons?

  It's like rom com gospel music.

• 1:06:17Speaker 02

  It's really, yeah, but it's really, really well done. And I do also think like that, like the bigness of it, that first shot of the Statue of Liberty and you got all the drums going. And it's like, oh, okay, we're.

• 1:06:29Bill Simmons?

  I'll go further. It shouldn't work.

• 1:06:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:31Bill Simmons?

  It should have, it should have failed.

• 1:06:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, but.

• 1:06:33Bill Simmons?

  Like, we're gonna make rom com gospel music and that should just like, that shouldn't work.

• 1:06:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:38Bill Simmons?

  And it works.

• 1:06:38Speaker 03

  It works.

• 1:06:39Bill Simmons?

  Gets me. I'm singing it, walking into the pod.

• 1:06:42Speaker 03

  I love it. That gets stuck in my head all the time. That song gets stuck in my head all the time.

• 1:06:46Speaker 02

  It's anthemic. It's.

• 1:06:47Bill Simmons?

  What do you have?

• 1:06:48Speaker 03

  Supportive work husband, Jack Traynor.

• 1:06:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's great.

• 1:06:52Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 1:06:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:52Bill Simmons?

  You liked when they were making toast together and buttering it?

• 1:06:55Speaker 03

  It was so cute in the kitchen seat at the end. And he packs her a lunchbox?

• 1:06:58Speaker 02

  Which he got monogrammed very quickly because.

• 1:07:00Bill Simmons?

  I'm still waiting for my first fun morning experience like that.

• 1:07:03Speaker 03

  Say a report to my office?

• 1:07:04Speaker 02

  Tomorrow morning. Right? And they do have to go back and like finish their contracts. Yeah.

• 1:07:08Speaker 03

  It seems like they've been living together for a little while when she goes. Yeah.

• 1:07:12Speaker 02

  Like, how did you get, you know, like the Lunchables and everything?

• 1:07:15Speaker 03

  Or something like that. Yeah.

• 1:07:17Bill Simmons?

  Do you and Zach like share a toast and it pops out of the toaster and you butter it and then he puts jam on it?

• 1:07:23Speaker 02

  He does bring me coffee though. So, yeah.

• 1:07:25Bill Simmons?

  Really?

• 1:07:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, he does. Every morning. Yeah, it is very nice. And he's the barista.

• 1:07:30Bill Simmons?

  Zach plans weddings and brings you coffee?

• 1:07:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:33Bill Simmons?

  It's really Renaissance, man.

• 1:07:34Speaker 03

  The full package, the full package.

• 1:07:37Bill Simmons?

  I have for what's aged the best other than David Duchovny's cameo. And I really love the round table that they have near the end of the movie. It's just, I was almost thinking about it for The Ringer, could we do like a 12 person podcast with this giant round table? What's aged the best? Jack's tequila gold order, which seemed really rambunctious in the late eighties. Like you order tequila, it was basically like doing cocaine.

• 1:08:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:01Bill Simmons?

  It's like the most dangerous order.

• 1:08:02Speaker 02

  That's how she reacts.

• 1:08:03Bill Simmons?

  But just that he was a tequila guy. Now it's like tequila's, you know, one of the go to.

• 1:08:08Speaker 03

  That's my drink, tequila. But just neat. Yeah.

• 1:08:12Bill Simmons?

  I'm telling you, in the eighties, people were afraid of tequila.

• 1:08:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:16Bill Simmons?

  It was like, you drink tequila, you'll blackout.

• 1:08:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:19Bill Simmons?

  I don't even know what tequila gold is.

• 1:08:20Speaker 03

  It's cheaper than it, you know, what I think a jack trainer would order.

• 1:08:24Bill Simmons?

  Jack being on tequila early, though?

• 1:08:26Speaker 06

  It was also a double and he got two of them. So they really had four shots in like 10 seconds.

• 1:08:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:30Bill Simmons?

  And she had taken four valence.

• 1:08:33Speaker 03

  Should check the milligrams.

• 1:08:35Speaker 02

  Live and learn.

• 1:08:35Speaker 03

  Live and learn.

• 1:08:36Bill Simmons?

  What's age the best? This will be my Harrison Ford contribution to whatever.

• 1:08:40Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:08:41Bill Simmons?

  Great clothes in this movie by him. I was admiring all of the outfits and the tie choices. It wasn't 1988 at all. It actually felt like you could wear a lot of those suits. I was impressed.

• 1:08:52Speaker 02

  I mean, Joanna mentioned Anne Roth did the costumes, who is like a legend and like across the board.

• 1:08:58Bill Simmons?

  All solid colors for the most part.

• 1:08:59Speaker 02

  But I mean, because once Tess has her makeover, it's like really communicating something both like very eighties, but very different about who that character is or who that character is trying to be like the Sigourney Weaver's entire closet is so.

• 1:09:12Speaker 03

  All of her skirt suits.

• 1:09:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, the details are spot on and they really do make the characters. But he, I agree that he looks great. His overcoat, he's got a scarf, you know?

• 1:09:22Bill Simmons?

  Great, great, great clothes. Richard Gere in Pretty Woman, also great clothes.

• 1:09:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:27Bill Simmons?

  So it's like a sneaky thing when you have like the rom com guy who's got to be a wealthy guy. The clothes have to work.

• 1:09:33Speaker 02

  And the clothes fit, which I would just give a note to all men now.

• 1:09:37Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 1:09:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:37Speaker 03

  You can find a tailor.

• 1:09:38Speaker 02

  Clothes don't fit anymore.

• 1:09:40Bill Simmons?

  I have for what's age the best, the Melanie Griffith, hot mess, stealth smart, baby voice archetype.

• 1:09:46Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:09:47Bill Simmons?

  As a movie character, I'm always in.

• 1:09:49Speaker 02

  Who else you got?

• 1:09:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:50Bill Simmons?

  I don't know. It's just, I'm in when it's like, oh, I'm gonna underestimate her. And there's way more going on here, but nobody sees it. But we, the audience, see it, but nobody else does yet. It just works.

• 1:10:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:03Bill Simmons?

  So Craig, add that to the rom com.

• 1:10:05Speaker 03

  The, I mean, I guess.

• 1:10:06Speaker 02

  The Duty Holiday. Princess Diaries.

• 1:10:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:08Speaker 02

  It's another one.

• 1:10:09Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:10:10Speaker 02

  Well, I guess she's not really baby voice.

• 1:10:11Speaker 03

  She's just a teenager.

• 1:10:13Speaker 02

  Well, but she doesn't believe in herself.

• 1:10:15Bill Simmons?

  And double was proud of the first half hour when Meryl Streep's just ripping her a new one.

• 1:10:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:20Bill Simmons?

  Um.

• 1:10:21Speaker 02

  Before the makeover. Yeah.

• 1:10:23Bill Simmons?

  What's age the best trying to guess which scenes Melanie Griffith filmed right after she was out 4:30. It's weirdly like a great part of rewatching this movie.

• 1:10:31Speaker 03

  And you can win that game, actually. You can.

• 1:10:35Bill Simmons?

  How about this tidbit? I don't know where, what category to put this, but I'll put it in what's age the best. Working Girl became an NBC series in 1990. Because this is what we did in the 80s and early 90s. We, a movie was successful and they had no idea.

• 1:10:50Speaker 03

  This is before they turned them into Broadway musicals?

• 1:10:53Bill Simmons?

  Right. Do you know who starred as Tess?

• 1:10:55Speaker 02

  I do not.

• 1:10:56Speaker 03

  I don't. Will you give us a hint?

• 1:10:59Bill Simmons?

  Want to play 20 questions?

• 1:11:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:11:02Bill Simmons?

  Go ahead.

• 1:11:03Speaker 03

  Burnett or blonde?

• 1:11:04Speaker 02

  Well, you have to say, I was gonna say, is she blonde?

• 1:11:07Speaker 03

  Is she blonde?

• 1:11:08Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 1:11:08Speaker 02

  No, okay.

• 1:11:09Speaker 03

  Is she Burnett?

• 1:11:10Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 1:11:11Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:11:14Speaker 02

  Is she still working today?

• 1:11:15Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 1:11:17Speaker 03

  Is she more of a TV, is she a TV actress?

• 1:11:20Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 1:11:22Speaker 02

  Has she been in a rewatchables movie?

• 1:11:24Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 1:11:27Speaker 02

  Okay. Has she won an Oscar?

• 1:11:30Bill Simmons?

  This is really fun.

• 1:11:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:31Bill Simmons?

  She won an Oscar. Yes.

• 1:11:34Speaker 02

  Okay. Dark hair, has won an Oscar, has been a rewatchables movie. Still working. I'm like, my hands, I'm like controlling them under the table. I'm like, I can't, I want to reach for my computer. So I'm like, okay. It's not Sandra Bullock because she's not really still working. It is Sandra Bullock?

• 1:11:53Speaker 03

  Sandra Bullock?

• 1:11:54Speaker 02

  She's not working.

• 1:11:55Speaker 06

  I mean.

• 1:11:56Speaker 02

  Well, she hasn't been working, she hasn't made a movies in a long time. She has her own life. Listen, people make choices, but it's Sandra Bullock?

• 1:12:01Speaker 03

  Take the win.

• 1:12:02Bill Simmons?

  It's Sandra Bullock.

• 1:12:02Speaker 02

  Oh, okay, wow, okay.

• 1:12:04Bill Simmons?

  Sandra Bullock, 12 episodes of Working Girl.

• 1:12:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:07Bill Simmons?

  Somewhere on YouTube.

• 1:12:08Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:12:08Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:12:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. There you go.

• 1:12:10Speaker 03

  Does she have the hair, Craig, does she have the hair and the makeup and everything?

• 1:12:13Speaker 06

  That I don't know. I'll look that up though.

• 1:12:14Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:12:15Bill Simmons?

  What was her Oscar? I forget.

• 1:12:17Speaker 03

  Blind Side.

• 1:12:18Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:12:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:21Speaker 03

  You ready for that rewatchable?

• 1:12:22Bill Simmons?

  That's, Van, Van's already, Van didn't just request to be on it. He's just like, I have to be on it. Yeah.

• 1:12:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:12:31Bill Simmons?

  What's aged the best this quote? Never burn bridges. Today's junior prick, tomorrow's senior partner.

• 1:12:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:12:36Bill Simmons?

  Good lesson in life.

• 1:12:37Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:12:37Bill Simmons?

  And then I have the officer and a gentleman homage when they're kissing and one of the secretaries says, way to go. Way to go. Which is like, I, that could either age the worst or the best.

• 1:12:49Speaker 03

  No, no, I love it.

• 1:12:49Speaker 02

  It's really good.

• 1:12:50Speaker 03

  That's great.

• 1:12:52Bill Simmons?

  Big tuna burger award for best use of food or drink. I'll give you champagne on Spacey or the dim sum dumplings.

• 1:12:57Speaker 03

  Dim sum dumpling, uh, the souvlaki.

• 1:13:01Speaker 02

  Sure. I mean, I was gonna say tequila.

• 1:13:03Speaker 03

  Tequila shots, wedding drinks.

• 1:13:06Speaker 02

  And then, and then the wedding drink is the other one.

• 1:13:08Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that's the wedding.

• 1:13:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Okay, fair. What do you have for great shot, Gordon? Uh, it's the opening credits, right?

• 1:13:15Speaker 02

  I was gonna say the last shot. That, that last shot when she is like, because it is like a whole idea about the movie. And it is otherwise like, not a saccharine movie, but I think that last shot adds like a lot of ideas to what you're supposed to take away from it. And you also like, think about it, you know, it's famous, right? It's the finest, it's just her and, and then it's everyone.

• 1:13:37Speaker 03

  That is the most famous shot in the movie, I think, or her on the ferry at some point. I would say there's a, after Baldwin cheats on her, and I think basically she spends a night on the ferry. There's a shot of her on the ferry with just like a fog machine behind her. And then you get this crazy, uh, it's a helicopter shot over the water into the night skyline, but it's sped up, so it looks like a drone did it.

• 1:13:58Bill Simmons?

  It almost looks fake.

• 1:13:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's cool. Yeah.

• 1:14:01Bill Simmons?

  Keep Cuddy Pursuit of Happiness Award, best needle drop. I'll give you Lady in Red by Krista Bird or the Pointer Sisters with I'm So Excited.

• 1:14:08Speaker 02

  So Let the River Run is not eligible.

• 1:14:10Bill Simmons?

  Not eligible.

• 1:14:10Speaker 02

  Okay, it's obviously Lady in Red.

• 1:14:12Speaker 03

  It's definitely Lady in Red.

• 1:14:13Speaker 02

  They milk it too, you know, they give you like a long, long intro and you're just like, oh my God, is this really, they're doing Lady in Red?

• 1:14:20Speaker 03

  The whole time and then they dance.

• 1:14:22Bill Simmons?

  That's one of those karaoke songs that it's almost weird if somebody picks it where they're just like.

• 1:14:27Speaker 02

  It's not almost.

• 1:14:27Bill Simmons?

  I've never seen you lose. You're like, what's this guy doing?

• 1:14:30Speaker 02

  So slow.

• 1:14:30Speaker 03

  You have to really commit to it.

• 1:14:33Speaker 02

  It's also like, everyone has to have had tequila at that point.

• 1:14:37Speaker 03

  Half ass Lady in Red. Um, did, fun fact, did you know that, I'm sure you did, um, that they first cut the opening to The Eagles' Witchy Woman?

• 1:14:48Speaker 03

  And everyone liked it and Mike Nichols told Carly Simon that and she's like, how dare you?

• 1:14:53Bill Simmons?

  And upped their game.

• 1:14:54Speaker 02

  That absolutely ruins the movie.

• 1:14:57Speaker 03

  I agree.

• 1:14:57Speaker 02

  Witchy woman.

• 1:14:58Speaker 03

  Witchy woman.

• 1:14:59Speaker 02

  So bad.

• 1:15:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, then Mike Nichols called her, he's like, we're gonna use, we're gonna use it at the end, but we're gonna.

• 1:15:03Bill Simmons?

  It really fucks the movie up.

• 1:15:05Speaker 03

  Yeah. The Eagles, witchy, ooh, witchy woman.

• 1:15:07Bill Simmons?

  Good song, but not, not, not for that. Uh, chess rock, bro, Brock Laner's award for best character name, can I submit Doreen Demucci?

• 1:15:14Speaker 03

  It wasn't me popping Doreen Demucci in on a bed.

• 1:15:17Bill Simmons?

  Doreen Demucci.

• 1:15:18Speaker 02

  Or a cast is a good runner up.

• 1:15:20Speaker 03

  Doreen Demucci.

• 1:15:21Bill Simmons?

  I'm so happy to give this out with Amanda Dobbins here. The Amanda Dobbins Award for best piece of real estate.

• 1:15:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:26Bill Simmons?

  One of the great categories.

• 1:15:27Speaker 02

  This is like one of my great, um, career achievements that this career exists. So you would think that I would go for the townhouse and it is a beautiful townhouse. However, when you see the exterior shots, it appears to be like on an avenue. I don't know whether that's Madison or Lex, but it looks a little busy.

• 1:15:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:46Speaker 02

  The office.

• 1:15:47Speaker 03

  That's what I was gonna say.

• 1:15:48Speaker 02

  Catherine Parker's office with that, with the view. I mean, the full harbor, like she has a corner, so she gets both Governor's Island and the Statue of Liberty. I don't know how a 30 year old transferring down from Boston is getting that office, but.

• 1:16:02Speaker 03

  Family money.

• 1:16:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, still, it's really.

• 1:16:05Bill Simmons?

  I knew that was gonna be the answer.

• 1:16:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:16:07Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:16:07Speaker 02

  It's incredible.

• 1:16:08Bill Simmons?

  Amanda's still up because you have a flex category.

• 1:16:10Speaker 02

  Okay, alright, so I know what I'm gonna do. It is, I just have to read the full thing. It is the Vincent Chase Award for are we sure this character was actually good at his job? Which goes to literally every single person in this movie besides Tess. What are we doing here? Okay, Jack Trainer, like, has had, not had an idea in 10 years. He desperately needs it, but he's also not gonna take the meeting at the work thing. He just wants to go drink with someone else instead. Then all he has to do is call someone in Memphis and be like, hey, come to.

• 1:16:45Speaker 03

  He takes a flight. He goes down, he glances.

• 1:16:47Speaker 02

  Sure, that's true, but here's what I'm saying, that's like half a day's work. Meanwhile, Catherine gets promoted or transferred down from Boston, immediately goes on a ski vacation? You know? Also is not bringing any ideas to the table as far as I can tell. Everyone else, all of the Trask

• 1:17:07Bill Simmons?

  Not sold on any of the Trask people.

• 1:17:09Speaker 02

  They're just like, uh, he's not gonna do that. And then they get a phone call.

• 1:17:12Speaker 03

  That's such a good scene.

• 1:17:14Speaker 02

  Like, no one has ideas. No one's doing anything.

• 1:17:18Speaker 03

  Besides like checking their schedule. Trying to do things, but her printer's not working.

• 1:17:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, and also her party ideas are bad.

• 1:17:25Speaker 03

  They are bad.

• 1:17:25Speaker 02

  So I just, I, I mean, I guess mergers and acquisitions, I'm not sure if they're good at their jobs.

• 1:17:31Bill Simmons?

  Arbitrage isn't doing well either.

• 1:17:32Speaker 03

  No, certainly not.

• 1:17:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's a good point on Jack.

• 1:17:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:37Bill Simmons?

  I expected more from Harvard class of 1970. I don't know.

• 1:17:40Speaker 03

  Jack should have asked one question.

• 1:17:43Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:17:43Speaker 03

  I mean, that words are premise the movie, but like, one person was like, hey, has anyone heard of Tess?

• 1:17:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:48Speaker 03

  McGill, have you worked with her before? Should I work with her?

• 1:17:51Speaker 02

  I'd like, should the fact that I'm sort of in a relationship with her colleague have, you know, any impact on what's going on here? Maybe I should mention it.

• 1:17:59Bill Simmons?

  Wouldn't Jack be like, Tess, where'd you go to college? Where'd you go to business school? Where are you from?

• 1:18:03Speaker 03

  School of hard knocks, school of life.

• 1:18:06Bill Simmons?

  And that's a good one, Amanda.

• 1:18:07Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:18:08Bill Simmons?

  I have the, uh, I don't know if I put this in the rundown for you all, but the Tom Cruise, which end do I light award for terrible on-screen smoking?

• 1:18:15Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:18:16Bill Simmons?

  Goes to Sigourney in the office. Doesn't actually put the cigarette in her mouth. Does the classic, the character's supposed to be smoking.

• 1:18:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:18:25Bill Simmons?

  Does one of these, but when you see like, there's no, doesn't touch her lips.

• 1:18:29Speaker 02

  It's almost like she was so bad at it that they tried to cut it out, that they didn't have anything else for that one thing. Cause she only is smoking in that one scene and they barely show it.

• 1:18:38Bill Simmons?

  And that's it.

• 1:18:38Speaker 02

  It might also be a character decision where they're like, she

• 1:18:42Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 1:18:43Speaker 02

  She would not be a smoker, but it seems like she's just not good at it.

• 1:18:45Bill Simmons?

  It's not, not what they did.

• 1:18:46Speaker 02

  That's okay. She's good at other things.

• 1:18:49Bill Simmons?

  The butcher's girlfriend award for weak link of the film. What do you have?

• 1:18:53Speaker 03

  I don't think there is one.

• 1:18:55Bill Simmons?

  What do you have?

• 1:18:56Speaker 02

  I mean, Doreen.

• 1:18:58Bill Simmons?

  Doreen Demucci just having sex with Alec Baldwin and then showing up at the party?

• 1:19:02Speaker 02

  The reaction, I don't know if like, you're supposed to be looking at her face and emotional, uh, reaction in that moment. No, no, no, no, no. Once they catch her in the bedroom, but like her fake crying.

• 1:19:15Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:19:15Speaker 02

  As she is a stride Alec Baldwin.

• 1:19:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:19Speaker 02

  It's not believable.

• 1:19:21Speaker 03

  Okay. Shots fired at Doreen Demucci.

• 1:19:23Bill Simmons?

  Candidate. I, um, don't get mad until I finish what I say here.

• 1:19:28Speaker 02

  Okay. Uh-oh.

• 1:19:30Speaker 02

  You, it's not too late, it's not too late to not do it.

• 1:19:33Bill Simmons?

  No, don't get mad. Cause.

• 1:19:35Speaker 03

  Is this the one where you were gleefully saying earlier, you are excited to piss us off about?

• 1:19:39Bill Simmons?

  No. This is an absolutely absurd premise for a movie. It's absurd.

• 1:19:46Speaker 03

  So is Die Hard.

• 1:19:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:49Bill Simmons?

  I said, I, you gotta let me finish.

• 1:19:51Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:19:51Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 1:19:53Bill Simmons?

  And they pulled it off and it works.

• 1:19:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:56Bill Simmons?

  It is a nine, I have it as a nine point six out of 10 on the no fucking way scale. That Tess is able, her boss goes away and she's just able to pull off like basically a merger with Trask. And she doesn't have an office and she's just in her office and nobody else in the, I mean, if you actually like really look at this. It's absurd.

• 1:20:19Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 1:20:20Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:20:20Bill Simmons?

  It's a set move.

• 1:20:21Speaker 03

  Swayze disagrees.

• 1:20:24Speaker 06

  Do we want to get that?

• 1:20:25Bill Simmons?

  Well, we'll fix it later.

• 1:20:28Bill Simmons?

  I'm on a, I'm on a heater.

• 1:20:29Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:20:30Bill Simmons?

  Look, most movies are absurd. Pretty Woman's absurd. Most movies that we live are absurd. I just want to point out that this movie fundamentally is absolutely absurd that she pulls this off and then they're like.

• 1:20:49Bill Simmons?

  Swayze's furious.

• 1:20:51Speaker 06

  This is what your, your take did to the studio.

• 1:20:53Bill Simmons?

  My take, Swayze.

• 1:20:57Bill Simmons?

  I think we leave that.

• 1:20:57Speaker 06

  I think we leave it too.

• 1:21:00Speaker 02

  I agree with you.

• 1:21:01Bill Simmons?

  It's absurd.

• 1:21:03Speaker 03

  Of course it is.

• 1:21:04Speaker 02

  It aligns with my point that were anyone good at their job, then maybe they would notice what's going on here, you know?

• 1:21:11Bill Simmons?

  First of all, she's fired, she's fired immediately. They're like, wait, you, you're, you're a secretary and you just arranged this merger? And then we caught you? Like pack your bags.

• 1:21:22Speaker 06

  How does nobody in the office leak it? Like everybody is seeing her pretend for two weeks. No one's telling anybody?

• 1:21:28Bill Simmons?

  So good, you actually just buy into it. It's like, but Pretty Woman's the same way where you're like, yeah, I think, I think this would happen. He would follow along with this hooker on Hollywood Boulevard.

• 1:21:37Speaker 03

  Percent matters if the premise for a movie is absurd, if the human emotion is, works. Right.

• 1:21:43Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:21:45Bill Simmons?

  What's aged the worst?

• 1:21:48Bill Simmons?

  I have a lot.

• 1:21:49Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:21:52Bill Simmons?

  This is a good one. You'd still be able to do your job in 2025 with a broken leg.

• 1:21:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:58Speaker 03

  Oh, remote work.

• 1:21:59Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:22:00Bill Simmons?

  Remote work is like, she's fine.

• 1:22:02Speaker 03

  Remote work ruins this movie. LinkedIn and remote work ruins this movie.

• 1:22:07Speaker 02

  I think she could be making phone calls and having ideas.

• 1:22:10Speaker 03

  But she's.

• 1:22:11Speaker 02

  If she's like a hard-earned MMA.

• 1:22:13Speaker 06

  Also, why can't you fly home with a broken leg?

• 1:22:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's.

• 1:22:16Speaker 03

  Cause she's boning her doctor.

• 1:22:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:19Speaker 02

  You gotta be thankful for our medical innovations, Craig.

• 1:22:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:23Speaker 06

  Sure.

• 1:22:24Bill Simmons?

  I have a.

• 1:22:26Speaker 06

  1988, you couldn't fly home with a broken leg.

• 1:22:29Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:22:29Bill Simmons?

  I have just about everyone's hair except Harrison Ford.

• 1:22:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:22:33Bill Simmons?

  Probably nine out of 10 hairdos and even Duchovny. How women were treated in the workplace has not aged well. Uh, someone reading Motor Trend Magazine in bed?

• 1:22:42Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:22:43Bill Simmons?

  I'm positive that doesn't happen anymore.

• 1:22:45Speaker 03

  It was the Lamborghini edition of Motor Trend Magazine. Yeah.

• 1:22:50Bill Simmons?

  Sad shots of the Staten Island Ferry?

• 1:22:53Speaker 03

  Hasn't aged well?

• 1:22:56Bill Simmons?

  No, just. I don't know, ferries, like, just.

• 1:23:00Speaker 03

  I had a, I had a colleague who, like, an editor at Vanity Fair, and he used to say that he took the Staten Island Ferry in, and he would talk about how he could, like, hear Carly Simon.

• 1:23:09Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:23:09Speaker 03

  Like, playing in his head.

• 1:23:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:23:11Speaker 03

  When the ferry would come in.

• 1:23:15Bill Simmons?

  Alec Baldwin, whatever look he has at this point in his career. So, is he handsome in 1988? What's your relationship with him? Cause to me, he looks like he'd be playing on the Pittsburgh Penguins.

• 1:23:26Speaker 02

  He does, but it's like a styling.

• 1:23:28Bill Simmons?

  He looks like a hockey player.

• 1:23:29Speaker 02

  Well, it's like, it's a styling issue, the hair and the way that, the amount of chest hair that is being, like, shown to us.

• 1:23:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:23:36Speaker 02

  But in that, the, the wedding scene, like, where he's in the tux.

• 1:23:40Bill Simmons?

  You're going handsome.

• 1:23:42Speaker 02

  I mean, you see his face when he's clean shaven, I'm like, this is a very handsome man.

• 1:23:46Bill Simmons?

  Cause he looks like all three of his brothers at the same time. And then he grew out of it and started to look like Alec Baldwin.

• 1:23:52Speaker 03

  I think he's greaseball handsome in this.

• 1:23:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:56Bill Simmons?

  Um, where do you stand on Tess not wiping the hot dog crumb off of Jack's mouth? Cause it drives me crazy when I watch this movie.

• 1:24:03Speaker 03

  I think it's Suzuki.

• 1:24:04Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:24:04Bill Simmons?

  Whatever it is, like whatever the way.

• 1:24:06Speaker 03

  I like it, but it's there.

• 1:24:07Speaker 02

  It's a nice touch.

• 1:24:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, I really like that it's there.

• 1:24:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:09Bill Simmons?

  But that she doesn't fix it.

• 1:24:11Speaker 02

  They're not ready for that yet. They're not there, you know? She can't let her guard down yet.

• 1:24:16Speaker 03

  What do you make of Jack not washing his hands after he uses the restroom? And then he does like one of these with his finger in his mouth at the wedding?

• 1:24:22Bill Simmons?

  Didn't like that at all. Didn't like that at all. Would he, Annie would say the worst, other than everything we covered?

• 1:24:27Speaker 02

  You know, Joe alluded to some of this, but sleeping together before you close the deal. I don't, it's like, uh, just, you know, girl boss wise, that's not what we would be doing anymore. You gotta wait.

• 1:24:37Speaker 03

  But a kiss so good, you drop your briefcase?

• 1:24:39Speaker 02

  That's fine. I, is it fine? I don't, I don't know.

• 1:24:43Speaker 03

  I don't hate, they're consenting adults. I don't hate that. I just like.

• 1:24:46Speaker 02

  It's also a little bit like, I always feel this way when like Travis Kelsey is reported to have like, stayed at Taylor Swift's house the night before, like a game. I'm like, you guys have a big meeting the next day, like eyes on the ball. You know what I'm saying?

• 1:25:00Bill Simmons?

  She's, she's just has high standards.

• 1:25:02Speaker 03

  I, I, I see it.

• 1:25:03Speaker 02

  The other, the other thing I have is just like the concept of like, of, of hard copies, of, of making records of things, like whether it's the dictaphone or the day planner.

• 1:25:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:13Speaker 02

  Like great movie, you know, plot devices, but just really comes down to bite everyone in the ass. And if you're just doing this all on your phone where no one else has access.

• 1:25:23Speaker 03

  Catherine never knows.

• 1:25:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, you don't do the cloud, none of this happens.

• 1:25:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's true.

• 1:25:27Speaker 02

  Never do the cloud.

• 1:25:28Speaker 03

  Yeah. I really think he could have just left her dress on. That's all I'm saying. He was, he carried her up the stairs and that's great. But he had no need to take her dress off.

• 1:25:36Speaker 02

  You're right.

• 1:25:37Bill Simmons?

  I think it's fair.

• 1:25:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:39Bill Simmons?

  I think we've solved it.

• 1:25:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:41Bill Simmons?

  The rough low Hannah Rubenek, perchance over acting word, clearly Kevin Spacey.

• 1:25:44Speaker 03

  Kevin Spacey?

• 1:25:44Bill Simmons?

  I mean, he just.

• 1:25:45Speaker 03

  It's of an arbitrage.

• 1:25:46Bill Simmons?

  All time dilemma. Uh, what do you have for a flex, Joanna?

• 1:25:49Speaker 02

  Okay. I contemplated.

• 1:25:52Speaker 03

  The Jamie Lee Curtis Unnecessary Nudity Award for the topless vacuuming. That was mine. Yeah, it's, okay. I mean, it's, and apparently it was Melanie Griffith's idea. Oh, I was gonna ask about that. Yeah, apparently she was like, this is what I would do. And Mike Nichols was like, okay. Just right out of the bender.

• 1:26:09Bill Simmons?

  See, Melanie Griffith was lit.

• 1:26:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, she's just like, I wouldn't put a shirt on. He's like, sounds great.

• 1:26:15Speaker 02

  I mean, you do get overheated, you know?

• 1:26:18Speaker 03

  She's in heels.

• 1:26:19Speaker 02

  If you're really going for the vacuuming.

• 1:26:20Speaker 03

  Why is she in heels? No reason.

• 1:26:22Speaker 02

  Well, that's just to feel glamorous, you know? Sometimes you need it.

• 1:26:25Speaker 03

  But I am gonna get, actually, my actual award is the, uh, okay, motherfucker, exact moment when the movie goes up a notch. And it's at 36 minutes and 4 seconds when Harrison Ford aims his lopsided smile at Melanie Griffith's legs and enters the story. That's it. 36 minutes, 4 seconds in.

• 1:26:42Speaker 02

  Nice, tight close up.

• 1:26:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:43Speaker 02

  He looks great.

• 1:26:44Speaker 03

  And he just gives the little lopsided Harrison Ford's, and we're off to the races.

• 1:26:47Bill Simmons?

  I like it. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. Hottest take award. Amanda gave hers. What do you have?

• 1:26:53Speaker 03

  I had this should have won Best Picture of a Rain Man.

• 1:26:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, agree.

• 1:26:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:57Bill Simmons?

  Not even sure that's a hot take.

• 1:26:58Speaker 03

  Great. That's my tepid take.

• 1:27:00Bill Simmons?

  No, I think you're right.

• 1:27:02Bill Simmons?

  I, uh, I really worked on this one. I think I've done this before.

• 1:27:06Speaker 02

  I'm just getting my posture ready.

• 1:27:10Bill Simmons?

  The Pointer Sisters, I'm so excited.

• 1:27:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:12Bill Simmons?

  Is secretly the most important pop culture song of all time.

• 1:27:15Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm, okay.

• 1:27:17Bill Simmons?

  It's in National Lampoon's Vacation in a pivotal Christie Brinkley scene.

• 1:27:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:27:21Bill Simmons?

  It's in Beverly Hills Cop.

• 1:27:23Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:27:24Bill Simmons?

  It's in, we covered this in the Miami Vice Calderon's Revenge episode. The only TV show we've ever done the rewatchable is me and CR. It is in an absolutely crucial point in this Miami Vice episode. That's one of the most important episodes of the 80s.

• 1:27:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:39Bill Simmons?

  It's in the second best, the NBA had these, it's fantastic commercials that they ran that really made the league more likeable. And the best one ever was One on One with Hall & Oates, where they would just show all these slow motion. The second best one ever was, I'm so excited with Pointer Sisters.

• 1:27:53Speaker 03

  Was it also the 80s?

• 1:27:54Bill Simmons?

  80s.

• 1:27:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, so my question is, is it the most-

• 1:27:56Bill Simmons?

  Working Girl, 80s.

• 1:27:57Speaker 02

  Are you gonna build a bridge to our generation?

• 1:27:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, most important song of all time or of that decade?

• 1:28:01Bill Simmons?

  I said pop culture.

• 1:28:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:03Bill Simmons?

  For the tw- for the 20th century.

• 1:28:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:06Bill Simmons?

  I'll go there, because it's hottest take.

• 1:28:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:08Bill Simmons?

  Because you have Working Girl, important.

• 1:28:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:10Bill Simmons?

  And everything culminates in the Saved by the Bell caffeine pills episode.

• 1:28:13Speaker 02

  Yes, of course.

• 1:28:14Bill Simmons?

  This is, this is a 10-year run.

• 1:28:16Speaker 03

  She's so scared.

• 1:28:18Bill Simmons?

  It's 10 years of this goes into major movies, major TV shows and the NBA.

• 1:28:25Speaker 03

  And then Anne Elizabeth Berkeley.

• 1:28:26Bill Simmons?

  Six times.

• 1:28:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:27Speaker 02

  It's a great take.

• 1:28:28Bill Simmons?

  Thank you.

• 1:28:29Speaker 03

  Yeah. I love it.

• 1:28:29Speaker 02

  Really good.

• 1:28:31Bill Simmons?

  Casting What-ifs.

• 1:28:32Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:28:33Bill Simmons?

  At one point, this movie was supposed to be directed by Jim Bridges, starring Demi Moore.

• 1:28:37Speaker 02

  Absolutely not.

• 1:28:38Bill Simmons?

  Demi Moore, if she's jewels in St. Elmo's Fire, like, I'm not saying better than Melanie Griffith. I'm just saying, I'm not not giving it a chance. Raspy, kind of looks like she's been out the night before.

• 1:28:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:28:52Bill Simmons?

  Little puffy face from.

• 1:28:53Speaker 03

  I can see it.

• 1:28:54Bill Simmons?

  I could see it.

• 1:28:55Speaker 03

  But that version was.

• 1:28:56Bill Simmons?

  The man is horrified.

• 1:28:57Speaker 03

  No, a very different movie, I think.

• 1:28:59Speaker 02

  It's hard for me to imagine anyone but Melanie Griffith, but also, Demi Moore, I've realized, is sort of like the generational divide for me. Like, I've, I've seen all the movies, they were handed down to me, but I was not conscious.

• 1:29:12Bill Simmons?

  You never buy it.

• 1:29:13Speaker 02

  Demi Moore, like, the big star.

• 1:29:15Bill Simmons?

  It would be jewels from St. Elmo's Fire, Demi Moore.

• 1:29:18Speaker 02

  And so I was learning about it all after the fact, and I would say, like, her biggest celebrity moment to me is still the Vanity Fair cover.

• 1:29:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, Vanity Fair cover.

• 1:29:24Speaker 02

  Where she's very pregnant.

• 1:29:25Bill Simmons?

  So you're later and.

• 1:29:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I just, I don't always, like, get it, you know?

• 1:29:29Bill Simmons?

  So the thing, the reason I think it would have worked is because 80s Demi Moore, who was battling a lot of the same stuff Melanie Griffith was, I think brings some baggage into it.

• 1:29:38Speaker 03

  Would you also have a scene where she's alone in a room with just a fan on her, as she is in St. Elmo's Fire?

• 1:29:42Bill Simmons?

  With all the windows open?

• 1:29:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:44Bill Simmons?

  I would.

• 1:29:44Speaker 03

  Yeah. Okay.

• 1:29:46Bill Simmons?

  Molly Ringwald, apparently audition was deemed too young. I mean, they auditioned everybody, including, uh, they thought about Michelle Pfeiffer and Madonna. Scott Rudin was running Fox, which I don't think I knew, and was really pushing for Shelley Long, who was red hot on Cheers. They squashed that. Lorraine Barco wrote in her memoir that she thought she nailed the audition and didn't get it. That was mildly interesting.

• 1:30:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:09Speaker 03

  I would love Lorraine Barco in this movie.

• 1:30:11Bill Simmons?

  She does, um, Someone to Watch Over Me, right around the same time. Nichols finally said, fuck it, I'm dropping out if we don't hire Melanie Griffith. So they do the casting credits thing. Then there's this whole weird.

• 1:30:25Bill Simmons?

  Lawrence Kasdan wanted to, he was testing that accidental tourist part.

• 1:30:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:30Bill Simmons?

  Gina Davis and Melanie Griffith are both for the part. And Scott Rudin says, if she tests for another movie, she's out for Working Girl. And this executive producer, Carlisle, tells Melanie Griffith, whoever plays Muriel in Accidental Tourist could win the Academy Award, and whoever does Working Girl will be a star. This is in the oral history from 30 years later. And then she says, I want to be a star, goes for Working Girl. And then at the Academy Awards, for whatever reason, Melanie Griffith hands the Oscar to Gina Davis. She's the one presenting it.

• 1:31:05Speaker 03

  For the accidental tourist.

• 1:31:06Bill Simmons?

  For the other part she didn't go for.

• 1:31:07Speaker 03

  And I would just say that Gina Davis was both an Oscar winner and a star. So that wasn't the top tier advice.

• 1:31:13Bill Simmons?

  You're talking to somebody who bought Gina Davis stock as early as it could go. When she was just buried in Fletch. We argued about this on Fletch, it was the maddest CRs ever been on a movie watchable, that Gina Davis should have been the lead in Fletch, not Dana Will or Nicholson. And CR got really mad.

• 1:31:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, anyway.

• 1:31:32Speaker 03

  Um, can we, can I just add a few more casting what ifs?

• 1:31:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, because I couldn't tell how much was 100% true, but go.

• 1:31:40Speaker 03

  I sort of cross checked that THR thing we pulled from, and also the Nichols biography. Uh, Whoopi Goldberg was someone they were considering because Nichols did her like,

• 1:31:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:51Speaker 03

  stand up show, Goldie Hawn.

• 1:31:55Bill Simmons?

  Too old.

• 1:31:56Speaker 03

  Was she too old at that point?

• 1:31:58Bill Simmons?

  She's too old, maybe eight. Yeah, she's too old at that point.

• 1:32:00Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:32:00Bill Simmons?

  Because she did Private Benjamin in 1980.

• 1:32:03Speaker 03

  No, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:32:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, she's like in her 40s at that point.

• 1:32:06Speaker 03

  Um, Meg Ryan.

• 1:32:09Bill Simmons?

  Meg Ryan, maybe. I don't know if she could have pulled off the accent and the baggage part.

• 1:32:13Speaker 03

  And not the, the sex appeal in the same way. This movie has a lot of sex in it for romantic comedy. Share.

• 1:32:21Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 1:32:23Speaker 03

  Thanks for coming.

• 1:32:25Speaker 02

  Are you not, you're not a Moonstruck person?

• 1:32:26Speaker 03

  You don't like Moonstruck?

• 1:32:27Bill Simmons?

  Just Cher.

• 1:32:28Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. All right. Okay.

• 1:32:29Bill Simmons?

  Not for this. Not for this.

• 1:32:31Speaker 03

  Not, you don't like?

• 1:32:31Speaker 02

  No, I, I agree with you.

• 1:32:32Bill Simmons?

  She brings too much Cher.

• 1:32:34Speaker 02

  I, it's also like-

• 1:32:35Bill Simmons?

  She's still Cher. She was like one of the most famous people of the 70s.

• 1:32:38Speaker 02

  I don't think-

• 1:32:39Speaker 03

  I love Moonstruck.

• 1:32:40Speaker 02

  I love Moonstruck as well.

• 1:32:41Speaker 03

  Mermaids.

• 1:32:41Speaker 02

  Incredibly important. Yeah. Why did I see Mermaids in a theater? When I was like five.

• 1:32:47Bill Simmons?

  Cher was like incredibly famous in the 80s.

• 1:32:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. No, I agree with you.

• 1:32:51Bill Simmons?

  I think she's too famous.

• 1:32:51Speaker 02

  I, I completely agree with you for this role. I just-

• 1:32:54Bill Simmons?

  I was a big Sonny and Cher guy. I was a-

• 1:32:55Speaker 02

  I thought that that was a reaction to Moonstruck and I was a little concerned.

• 1:32:58Bill Simmons?

  No, Moonstruck's good.

• 1:32:59Speaker 02

  Wonderful. Yeah. Okay.

• 1:33:00Bill Simmons?

  I just wouldn't buy her as a test.

• 1:33:02Speaker 02

  Agree.

• 1:33:02Bill Simmons?

  Best that guy. Oliver Platt counts, according to Craigslist, that just because we call him Oliver Platt, that doesn't mean anyone under 35 knows who Oliver Platt is.

• 1:33:10Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:33:11Bill Simmons?

  But that's not the winner of this. It's either the bad guy from Beverly Hills Cop 3, who's one of the two people trash-

• 1:33:19Speaker 02

  Right. Yeah. Right, right.

• 1:33:20Bill Simmons?

  I don't even know what that guy's name is, but I'm like, hey, it's the bad guy from Beverly Hills Cop 3. Or that guy who worked for the evil law firm in Philadelphia and had second thoughts about maybe ratting out Jason Robards. And then on the stand, it kind of, kind of, uh, kind of is on the Tom Hanks side.

• 1:33:37Speaker 03

  What role is he in this?

• 1:33:38Bill Simmons?

  He's just in the movie. And I was like, that guy.

• 1:33:40Speaker 02

  That guy?

• 1:33:41Bill Simmons?

  So I almost feel like that makes him the winner because I don't even remember what part he played in this movie. Yeah.

• 1:33:46Speaker 03

  Um, what about Caroline Aaron, who plays Dr. Marcia Fieldstone in Sleepless in Seattle? And is also the mom on The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel?

• 1:33:55Speaker 02

  Oh, that's a really, really good one. Yeah.

• 1:33:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:33:59Bill Simmons?

  Dionne Waiters a word? Joan Cusack eligible?

• 1:34:03Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:34:03Bill Simmons?

  I don't think she's in it that much. She's, she's in it for 12 minutes?

• 1:34:08Speaker 02

  She, I mean, Joan Cusack would be a classic Dionne Waiters. May I ask if Carly Simon is eligible?

• 1:34:14Bill Simmons?

  Not eligible.

• 1:34:15Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:34:15Speaker 03

  What about Olympia Dukakis?

• 1:34:16Speaker 02

  I thought I was doing something. She's great.

• 1:34:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:34:18Bill Simmons?

  Nora Dunn.

• 1:34:19Speaker 03

  Olympia Dukakis is one scene-

• 1:34:20Bill Simmons?

  Oliver Platt, Spacey.

• 1:34:22Speaker 03

  Robert Easton, who plays Armistice, who is the like, who is the guy in the deal with the like Colonel Sanders beard and accent? Has like one scene and he's just like-

• 1:34:31Speaker 02

  Metro's owner.

• 1:34:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, Metro's owner. Yeah.

• 1:34:35Speaker 03

  The Memphis.

• 1:34:35Bill Simmons?

  I think the answer is probably Nora Dunn.

• 1:34:37Speaker 02

  She's very good. She's very threatening. Yeah.

• 1:34:39Bill Simmons?

  She was also really good at that specific kind of part. Recasting couch director city. What's her name? Danucci? What's her? What's that?

• 1:34:50Speaker 03

  Doreen.

• 1:34:50Bill Simmons?

  Doreen.

• 1:34:50Speaker 03

  Doreen Demucci? Demucci, yeah.

• 1:34:52Bill Simmons?

  Could we have gotten, could we have snuck like a young Marisa Tomei in that part? Or could we have like an actual famous actress?

• 1:35:00Speaker 03

  Mira Sorvino?

• 1:35:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:01Speaker 03

  I love it.

• 1:35:01Bill Simmons?

  Mira Sorvino, somebody with a little like, wow, that she played.

• 1:35:05Speaker 03

  Doreen Demucci?

• 1:35:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:35:08Bill Simmons?

  Half ass in her research. We did a lot of these, but um, my favorites. Melanie Griffith revealed in a 2017 interview that she um, repeatedly made passes at Alec Baldwin and he said, no, thanks. And it hurt her feelings, but I think he thought she was a little hot mess express.

• 1:35:25Speaker 03

  And he was also like, I know Dawn's just waiting in the wings to remarry you.

• 1:35:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, no question. Uh, there's a Bob's Burgers episode about this in Die Hard. That's apparently a famous Bob Burgers episode. My kids used to love that.

• 1:35:36Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:35:37Bill Simmons?

  You mentioned the Mike Nichols thing and then um, the lobby of seven World Trade Centers in this town. So it's been this multiple times.

• 1:35:43Speaker 03

  Can I read you an excerpt from the New York Times, 1989, written by Maureen Dowd?

• 1:35:48Speaker 02

  Oh, boy.

• 1:35:49Speaker 03

  George Bush ended his first week as president by having some friends over to the family quarters of the White House on Friday night for beef pie, whatever that is, and a screening of the movie Working Girl. He warned his guests, a mix of prominent Democrats and Republicans, that he had heard that the film Without a Wall Street Cinderella had some, quote, dirty parts, so they had better watch out.

• 1:36:09Speaker 02

  Ooh.

• 1:36:10Bill Simmons?

  Meat pie.

• 1:36:11Speaker 03

  Beef pie with George H W Bush. His first week as president, he said, let's watch Working Girl.

• 1:36:19Speaker 02

  I like hearing.

• 1:36:20Bill Simmons?

  Some beef pie and Working Girl.

• 1:36:21Speaker 02

  Hearing George H W Bush say the words dirty parts out loud is not.

• 1:36:26Speaker 03

  Also beef pie.

• 1:36:27Speaker 02

  Like makes me really, really unhappy.

• 1:36:29Speaker 03

  To have it either.

• 1:36:31Bill Simmons?

  Wow. Uh, Apex Mountain, I'm gonna say yes for Melanie Griffith.

• 1:36:35Speaker 03

  I agree.

• 1:36:36Speaker 02

  It really goes.

• 1:36:37Speaker 03

  Carly Simon.

• 1:36:38Speaker 02

  It goes down, very downhill, very quickly from here. And like, I didn't really remember.

• 1:36:43Speaker 03

  So you don't love Milk Money?

• 1:36:46Bill Simmons?

  The 90s were.

• 1:36:47Speaker 02

  She's really good in Nobody's School.

• 1:36:49Bill Simmons?

  90s are bad for her.

• 1:36:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:36:51Bill Simmons?

  I really like Pacificites.

• 1:36:53Speaker 02

  I mean, me too, but, you know.

• 1:36:54Bill Simmons?

  Harrison Ford, no.

• 1:36:55Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:36:55Bill Simmons?

  I think there's a Sigourney Weaver case. She's nominated in two categories at the same time. It's two years after Aliens. It just feels like she never had more juice than she did in 1988. It's a big, she's about to make Ghostbusters 2. She's probably the most bankable actress in Hollywood at that point.

• 1:37:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, I would say.

• 1:37:16Bill Simmons?

  That's right.

• 1:37:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, right before.

• 1:37:18Speaker 03

  It has to be like.

• 1:37:19Bill Simmons?

  It's somewhere in there, somewhere from Aliens to here.

• 1:37:21Speaker 03

  It's near, it's near. It's in the range.

• 1:37:24Bill Simmons?

  Female struggling in the workplace movies?

• 1:37:28Speaker 03

  No, those are evergreen.

• 1:37:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. We're all just all doing our best every day, Bill.

• 1:37:32Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:37:33Bill Simmons?

  This isn't the best one?

• 1:37:35Speaker 02

  It's one, it's one of my favorites. I mean, like, it, Broadcast News. Devil's Prada.

• 1:37:42Bill Simmons?

  Broadcast News is a good one.

• 1:37:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. And they're all in the same.

• 1:37:45Bill Simmons?

  You know what? The answer is Devil's Prada, because that's the best movie of all time.

• 1:37:49Speaker 02

  Can you believe they're making a sequel? I, I'm, I'm beside myself with joy.

• 1:37:54Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I thought you were gonna say beside myself with anger.

• 1:37:55Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no, no, I don't care. It's like, fine. All the nerds have gotten us, no offense, have gotten all of their movies forever. Like, give me all of it.

• 1:38:02Speaker 03

  Do you want like nine Devil's Prada?

• 1:38:04Speaker 02

  I would watch a TV show. I would watch a novel. I would read the novels. I've read the original, but.

• 1:38:10Speaker 03

  Are they getting Tucci?

• 1:38:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:11Speaker 03

  Are they getting Blunt?

• 1:38:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uh, I don't know about Blunt, but I think so.

• 1:38:15Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:38:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:16Bill Simmons?

  Nina Hathaway looks incredible these days.

• 1:38:18Speaker 02

  She does.

• 1:38:18Bill Simmons?

  She's a great, great job by her.

• 1:38:20Speaker 03

  Looks great.

• 1:38:21Bill Simmons?

  Great job by her. My daughter.

• 1:38:22Speaker 02

  I think they're just new eyebrows.

• 1:38:24Speaker 03

  It's the whole, well, yeah.

• 1:38:26Bill Simmons?

  My kids who don't consume my content at all.

• 1:38:29Speaker 03

  Um, yeah.

• 1:38:29Bill Simmons?

  And actively disparage me at all times.

• 1:38:31Speaker 03

  Sure, okay.

• 1:38:32Bill Simmons?

  Um, my daughter does like the rewatchables and listens to it. And she thinks the Devil Wears Prada one is one of the best podcasts ever recorded.

• 1:38:39Speaker 02

  Zoe, thank you so much. I, I do think that-

• 1:38:41Bill Simmons?

  Amanda was on that podcast.

• 1:38:42Speaker 02

  That was my, it was me, Juliette and Bill. I, I-

• 1:38:45Bill Simmons?

  It was one of the first rewatchables where we were like, this is probably where the show is going.

• 1:38:50Speaker 02

  I was freaking out a little. I do think it was my professional peak, but like, and this is pretty close. You know, in terms of things I've worked hard for my whole life.

• 1:38:58Bill Simmons?

  We did that, it was in the first year. I'm looking up-

• 1:39:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was in your, it was in the office on the couches.

• 1:39:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we did that for, I'm gonna say, within the first-

• 1:39:08Speaker 03

  Uh, I hope it's okay for me to say that Amanda said that-

• 1:39:11Bill Simmons?

  Oh no, we did that later.

• 1:39:12Speaker 03

  This is more important than, this is more important than giving birth to your children, this podcast episode?

• 1:39:17Speaker 02

  Well, it's more fun, more fun.

• 1:39:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, more enjoyable.

• 1:39:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, just, just as an experience, you know?

• 1:39:22Bill Simmons?

  Uh, Mike Nichols, Apex Mountain, no.

• 1:39:24Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:39:25Bill Simmons?

  Graduate?

• 1:39:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think so. He wins the Oscar.

• 1:39:27Bill Simmons?

  I mean, he made the graduate.

• 1:39:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's pretty good.

• 1:39:30Bill Simmons?

  When finding movies of the sixties. Carly Simon, I'm gonna say no.

• 1:39:35Speaker 02

  You don't think so?

• 1:39:37Bill Simmons?

  I don't know. She was-

• 1:39:38Speaker 02

  You're So Vain is the whole thing.

• 1:39:39Bill Simmons?

  She was killing it in the seventies. You're So Vain was like, probably one of the biggest single songs of the seventies from a female artist, right? And also like, led to fifty years of, who was she talking about in the same dialogue?

• 1:39:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:54Bill Simmons?

  The Staten Island Ferry?

• 1:39:55Speaker 02

  I had that. That was mine. It is, it is totally the Apex Mountain for Staten Island Ferry.

• 1:39:59Bill Simmons?

  It never got better for the ferry.

• 1:40:01Speaker 03

  All right.

• 1:40:02Speaker 02

  My son is really into transportation, so I was like, how will I show him Staten Island Ferry? Just pulled up Let the River Run, watched it, rapped.

• 1:40:10Bill Simmons?

  Colin Jost and Pete Davidson bought it, apparently.

• 1:40:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, but they don't know what to do with it, so.

• 1:40:14Bill Simmons?

  That's not Apex, man.

• 1:40:15Speaker 03

  Devastating.

• 1:40:16Bill Simmons?

  Uh, bony asses?

• 1:40:18Speaker 02

  Um, yeah.

• 1:40:19Bill Simmons?

  Just being, being used repeatedly as a disparaging term?

• 1:40:22Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:40:22Speaker 02

  Memorable.

• 1:40:22Speaker 03

  Um, and sleazoid, yeah.

• 1:40:25Bill Simmons?

  All right, that's probably good.

• 1:40:26Speaker 06

  What about 80s hair?

• 1:40:28Bill Simmons?

  80s hair in a movie? It's probably.

• 1:40:30Speaker 03

  And like a non, because I do think some of the like.

• 1:40:33Bill Simmons?

  I think they do it better.

• 1:40:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, like Whitesnake music videos and like Mad Max, stuff like that. But in terms of like a, a less extreme version, I think you might have something there. You know, like this is just supposed to look normal. In a music video, you're going for something extreme.

• 1:40:46Bill Simmons?

  I need to think about it more. I feel like there's some 80, 85 range, high school movies that are probably 86 range.

• 1:40:52Speaker 02

  But it kind of has become the shorthand for it. Like maybe Apex Mountain for shoulder pads.

• 1:40:58Speaker 03

  Also Q-Sax eye makeup.

• 1:40:59Speaker 06

  Yeah, you can't overstate how much these people look like aliens. Like every, every 15 minutes, Liz and I were like, man, the hair.

• 1:41:08Speaker 02

  But like, but the clothes are back.

• 1:41:10Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:41:10Speaker 02

  And, and like Working Girl is the reference and all the copy of like, you know, get your inner, you know, whatever on with this, this suit.

• 1:41:17Speaker 03

  Unleash your inner.

• 1:41:18Bill Simmons?

  Craig, give a flex category.

• 1:41:20Speaker 06

  Um, I was gonna, I was gonna do the vacuuming naked. I kind of, I'll, I'll do it like a pseudo hot take. I think Jack, is it Jack Trainer?

• 1:41:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:28Speaker 06

  I think he's a little creepy in, in the beginning of this film. And I know that everyone's in on it and I like Harrison Ford. I like the character eventually. I feel like they were still figuring it out. The first scene, it's like cheating on his girlfriend. I guess he wanted to get out, but like the, the back to back double shot of tequila.

• 1:41:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:45Bill Simmons?

  Doesn't say his name.

• 1:41:46Speaker 06

  Doesn't say his name, takes her home, takes the dress off. And then the next day is like dinner and a movie. I'm like, this guy's coming on a little hot.

• 1:41:54Speaker 03

  You forgot about, he did buy her a briefcase though.

• 1:41:56Speaker 06

  Also weird.

• 1:41:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:58Speaker 06

  Super weird. A gift the next morning is like huge red flag.

• 1:42:01Speaker 02

  As always, the timelines are an issue here because they say, I love you within four days.

• 1:42:07Speaker 03

  The I love you is.

• 1:42:07Speaker 02

  This entire movie takes the span of like five days.

• 1:42:10Bill Simmons?

  I had that in picket nets. That bell bomb is coming out so fast.

• 1:42:14Speaker 03

  Out of.

• 1:42:14Speaker 02

  For sure. I, but like, I.

• 1:42:16Bill Simmons?

  Sometimes you know.

• 1:42:17Speaker 02

  He is.

• 1:42:18Bill Simmons?

  It's like Amanda and Zack knew right away.

• 1:42:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's true. He is a pretty sleazy, he's supposed to be a sleazy Wall Street guy.

• 1:42:23Speaker 06

  But he starts as sleazy and then by halfway into the movie, he's like dopey.

• 1:42:26Speaker 03

  I think that like, I think.

• 1:42:28Speaker 02

  It's called, it's called character shaving, you know?

• 1:42:30Speaker 03

  I really think that if he had kept her dress on, I can defend almost all of it.

• 1:42:36Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm with Bill's mom on this.

• 1:42:38Bill Simmons?

  Not saying your name is weird. Are you Jack? No, I don't know who Jack is.

• 1:42:42Speaker 06

  He like whispers the, the double shot to the bartender.

• 1:42:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, that part is a little weird.

• 1:42:45Speaker 03

  Oh, not great.

• 1:42:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:48Speaker 03

  Then again, he didn't know about the milligrams.

• 1:42:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that is, he did whisper, double shut.

• 1:42:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:54Bill Simmons?

  This man was a menace.

• 1:42:57Speaker 02

  Sex pest, Jack Trainor.

• 1:43:01Bill Simmons?

  Cruise or Hanks?

• 1:43:03Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:43:04Speaker 03

  It's Hanks.

• 1:43:05Speaker 02

  It is Hanks.

• 1:43:06Bill Simmons?

  It has to be Hanks.

• 1:43:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, the height thing that you mentioned earlier, but Cruise is just too powerful.

• 1:43:13Bill Simmons?

  Cruise ahead at this point, Craig. Hanks. Hanks is at a cut. By like three or four.

• 1:43:17Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:43:18Bill Simmons?

  Scorsese or Spielberg?

• 1:43:20Speaker 02

  Marty. Marty.

• 1:43:21Bill Simmons?

  Hmm.

• 1:43:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:22Bill Simmons?

  Really? I had Spielberg.

• 1:43:23Speaker 03

  It comes from Wall Street?

• 1:43:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, he did it with Wolf of Wall Street.

• 1:43:26Bill Simmons?

  It's a different movie.

• 1:43:27Speaker 03

  It's a very different movie.

• 1:43:28Speaker 02

  It's way more of the last shot of the film.

• 1:43:30Speaker 03

  Yeah. I would watch Marty's.

• 1:43:33Speaker 02

  It would be great.

• 1:43:34Speaker 03

  It would be wonderful.

• 1:43:35Bill Simmons?

  What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played? Probably Spacey.

• 1:43:38Speaker 02

  Oh, I was gonna say Oliver Platt.

• 1:43:39Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, good call.

• 1:43:41Speaker 03

  This is his scent of a woman.

• 1:43:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:43Speaker 03

  Vibe.

• 1:43:44Bill Simmons?

  Picking nits that we haven't done yet.

• 1:43:45Speaker 02

  Okay. Um, Tess wears all white to the wedding. That's just rude.

• 1:43:51Speaker 02

  You know, come on, even I know that. I just tried to blend in, man.

• 1:43:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:55Speaker 02

  You know?

• 1:43:55Speaker 03

  I mean, how does she know what the dress code is also? Because she's wearing like sort of a business suit.

• 1:44:00Speaker 02

  Well, it's more like a.

• 1:44:02Speaker 03

  Daytime tiki wedding.

• 1:44:04Speaker 02

  A mother of the bride type.

• 1:44:06Speaker 03

  She's wearing something that Jack conceivably thinks they could just be going to a lunch for and they're going to.

• 1:44:11Speaker 02

  Though I did notice, I think he's, he's wearing black tie. It's, he's not wearing a tuxedo, but I like, the tie is a very dark color, which would suggest that even though he thought he was going to a three o'clock lunch, he was also wearing black tie, which is confusing.

• 1:44:29Bill Simmons?

  I have, why didn't anyone wonder why Tess was in her boss's office so much?

• 1:44:32Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:44:33Bill Simmons?

  As number one.

• 1:44:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:34Speaker 03

  I can buy, I can buy.

• 1:44:36Bill Simmons?

  Two days in, it's like, what's going on with Tess?

• 1:44:37Speaker 03

  Here's what I can buy. I can buy the boss is not like paying enough attention to notice and I can buy the secretary is covering for her.

• 1:44:44Bill Simmons?

  But why is the door always closed?

• 1:44:46Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:44:47Speaker 03

  She's watering the plants.

• 1:44:48Bill Simmons?

  No, it's, it's.

• 1:44:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:44:50Bill Simmons?

  People are talking by Wednesday. What kind of broken leg did Sigourney have where she's good in three weeks?

• 1:44:57Speaker 02

  I don't.

• 1:44:58Bill Simmons?

  Bed, goes from bedridden to just like.

• 1:45:00Speaker 03

  She just has a cane.

• 1:45:01Bill Simmons?

  Hobbing around.

• 1:45:02Speaker 02

  I don't know, you're the, you're the sports expert.

• 1:45:05Bill Simmons?

  I, it's one or the other. It's like, if you're bedridden for three weeks, you're coming out of there and you have like one of those like huge brace.

• 1:45:12Speaker 03

  Like a walking thing, yeah.

• 1:45:14Speaker 02

  Did they have those brace things yet? In the eighties? Again, our medical, our scientific achievements.

• 1:45:19Bill Simmons?

  Was it?

• 1:45:20Speaker 03

  Were we just killing people when they broke their legs at that point?

• 1:45:22Speaker 02

  She had like really giant plaster, but I like, I don't remember. You know, when like kids breaking their arms or legs, I don't remember like the flexi casts.

• 1:45:31Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:45:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:34Bill Simmons?

  It went from a broken leg to a torn MCL.

• 1:45:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. She just had the cane at the end, which was like, when Jack shows up to her apartment, when, when Melanie Griffith is hiding in the closet. And he's like trying not to get like drawn into her and he's just like, oh, your cast and like knocks on it. He's like, whoa.

• 1:45:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:51Speaker 03

  Look at that.

• 1:45:51Speaker 02

  He's so good.

• 1:45:52Speaker 03

  Sure is broken.

• 1:45:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:54Bill Simmons?

  I think Catherine would just be suing everybody right away. The end of this movie.

• 1:45:58Speaker 03

  Um.

• 1:45:59Speaker 02

  I don't, I mean, I.

• 1:46:00Speaker 03

  We don't know if she gets fired even.

• 1:46:02Speaker 02

  Well, Orin Truss says that he's gonna make sure she gets fired, which once again.

• 1:46:06Bill Simmons?

  It's like, why am I getting fired? My secretary pretended to be me for four months. What did I do wrong?

• 1:46:11Speaker 03

  Maybe in the eighties he could get her fired, but I do think she was a legal case.

• 1:46:14Bill Simmons?

  My big mistake was taking credit for my assistant's idea.

• 1:46:16Speaker 03

  Her bony ass out of his sight, but I don't think, know that he can get her fired.

• 1:46:19Speaker 02

  My impression of mergers and acquisitions in the eighties.

• 1:46:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:46:23Speaker 02

  Is not that you could just transfer down from Boston and immediately go on vacation.

• 1:46:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:29Speaker 02

  So, and listen, I believe in vacation and work-life balance and all that, but like, she's just very absent. So I don't, do they.

• 1:46:35Speaker 03

  How long was Tess working for her before she went on vacation?

• 1:46:39Speaker 02

  Like.

• 1:46:40Bill Simmons?

  Like two days?

• 1:46:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:42Speaker 03

  Is that true?

• 1:46:42Speaker 02

  Enough, enough to get the dim sum party.

• 1:46:44Speaker 03

  Yeah. I feel like it might have been a couple of weeks.

• 1:46:47Speaker 02

  But, yeah. Oh, okay. So.

• 1:46:50Bill Simmons?

  Maybe 10 days.

• 1:46:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, she might've been like a couple of weeks on the job and she's like, I already had this ski vacation planned.

• 1:46:55Speaker 02

  I, I guess, but.

• 1:46:57Speaker 06

  Do you not think it's weird that she was expecting, Ca- Catherine was expecting to be proposed to on this trip?

• 1:47:02Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:47:02Speaker 06

  Her boyfriend bails.

• 1:47:04Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:47:04Speaker 06

  And she just still goes. It is skiing alone.

• 1:47:09Speaker 03

  No, that's, that's, that's a, that's a

• 1:47:10Bill Simmons?

  It feels like it's gonna be the first of three or four marriages for her.

• 1:47:14Speaker 03

  I also feel like she had sex with her doctor.

• 1:47:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:47:17Speaker 06

  But like, why wouldn't you reschedule the trip with your fiance to Germany? You wouldn't, you go on it?

• 1:47:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:23Speaker 02

  I guess, it makes, he makes it seem like

• 1:47:26Bill Simmons?

  Now Amanda's on defense.

• 1:47:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, it's true. Listen.

• 1:47:29Bill Simmons?

  Amanda's currently now, she's like, wait guys.

• 1:47:31Speaker 03

  But like, she knew so many people there. Like, it's not like she was gonna go and be alone. She knew like, the guy who ran the hotel, and then her hotel room was just like, the biggest party room you've ever seen.

• 1:47:43Speaker 06

  It just feels like if Amanda was like, I think Zach and I are gonna get engaged in Germany. And then Zach's like, I can't go, I have work. I don't think she's getting on the plane and spending the money for that vacation.

• 1:47:51Speaker 02

  If I had the money, maybe.

• 1:47:52Speaker 03

  I think Katherine Hartner has so much money.

• 1:47:55Bill Simmons?

  I have my biggest nitpick we mentioned earlier. And I, I don't think we hit it hard enough.

• 1:48:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:01Bill Simmons?

  I don't understand the Alec Baldwin having sex with Dominic Donucci, whatever her name was.

• 1:48:07Speaker 02

  Doreen.

• 1:48:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, Doreen.

• 1:48:08Speaker 02

  Put some respect on Doreen's name.

• 1:48:10Bill Simmons?

  I just don't understand the scene.

• 1:48:14Speaker 03

  You don't think he would cheat on Tess?

• 1:48:15Speaker 02

  No class?

• 1:48:16Bill Simmons?

  Life was, life was different in the eighties. I'm not here to judge. Things happen. Maybe, maybe adultery was a little more common. I don't understand.

• 1:48:23Speaker 03

  You don't think a guy reading Motor Trend who gets his girlfriend's trashy lingerie on her birthday?

• 1:48:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:30Speaker 03

  Is, is fucking around on her?

• 1:48:32Bill Simmons?

  It's like, he doesn't think she's coming home, and he's doing it in his bed.

• 1:48:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, she has class.

• 1:48:36Speaker 03

  She has class.

• 1:48:37Bill Simmons?

  She walks in, it's just, and then he thinks it's gonna be fine, three days later, and he's still like, let's get married.

• 1:48:44Speaker 03

  Zach thinks it's gonna be fine.

• 1:48:46Bill Simmons?

  I just have some issues. I just tell, like, if that was my wife walking in, in ten years later,

• 1:48:53Bill Simmons?

  that's it. Like, she's moving out. It's not even a question of

• 1:48:56Speaker 02

  The issue is at the party, when he is, you know,

• 1:49:01Bill Simmons?

  It's like, are we still, is there still something here? Yeah.

• 1:49:03Speaker 02

  And then he proposes in front of everyone, which like, just, you know, don't take the bait.

• 1:49:07Bill Simmons?

  But it's four days after the adultery.

• 1:49:09Speaker 02

  That's insane. And then she doesn't just lie. Just lie, you know, I mean, that doesn't make for a good movie.

• 1:49:15Speaker 03

  I liked maybe. I think maybe is fair enough.

• 1:49:17Speaker 02

  It's a good movie scene.

• 1:49:18Bill Simmons?

  And then he's mad. He's like, you embarrassed me back there. It's like, you motherfucker, you were just getting rid in our bed by the time we did the change.

• 1:49:26Speaker 03

  I genuinely believe that those are the gender politics of that, like, culture at that time.

• 1:49:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're right.

• 1:49:30Speaker 06

  Wouldn't the whole friend group know that he cheated on her? And they're all like, say yes.

• 1:49:34Bill Simmons?

  This would be a way bigger deal.

• 1:49:36Speaker 03

  But they're like, no, I don't, I disagree.

• 1:49:38Speaker 02

  I mean, even when Joan Cusack-

• 1:49:39Bill Simmons?

  And Denise is there?

• 1:49:40Speaker 02

  Joan Cusack brings her stuff to the office and is like defending him. Yeah, this isn't like you.

• 1:49:45Speaker 03

  I feel like this-

• 1:49:45Bill Simmons?

  So this is just the eighties.

• 1:49:46Speaker 03

  I think it's a cultural thing. It's just sort of like-

• 1:49:48Bill Simmons?

  It's like, ah, he couldn't keep it in his pants at night.

• 1:49:50Speaker 03

  Guys will be guys. Boys being boys.

• 1:49:52Speaker 06

  The best scene-

• 1:49:52Speaker 02

  Baldwins will be baldwins.

• 1:49:53Speaker 06

  The sneaky best scene in the movie is in that moment in the bar when they meet, when Melanie Griffith and Baldwin kind of meet for the first time and they're just sitting at the corner of the bar. He's slamming scotch and he's like, I got the boat loan. And she's like, oh my god, congrats.

• 1:50:08Speaker 03

  And then he brings up the boat again at the wedding.

• 1:50:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, Dory is working the phone.

• 1:50:11Speaker 06

  Yeah, the boat loan. Oh, it's good.

• 1:50:14Speaker 02

  What is he doing? Like, so is it like boat tours? It's like, what is, he's booked for three weeks.

• 1:50:20Speaker 03

  It's like the arbitrage of boats.

• 1:50:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:21Speaker 03

  I'll never understand it.

• 1:50:22Bill Simmons?

  Honestly, they should have made him like high school hockey coach or something. He should have been a high school coach.

• 1:50:27Speaker 02

  Is hockey big on Staten Island?

• 1:50:28Speaker 03

  I don't think he should be anywhere near high school kids, Nick.

• 1:50:32Bill Simmons?

  Baseball, whatever.

• 1:50:33Speaker 03

  I think he should be like a used car salesman. That's Nick's energy.

• 1:50:36Bill Simmons?

  Sequel, prequel, prestige, TV, all black cast or untouchable? This is untouchable to me.

• 1:50:41Speaker 03

  Untouchable.

• 1:50:41Bill Simmons?

  I don't know how you'd read this.

• 1:50:42Speaker 03

  Even though I guess they made a TV show.

• 1:50:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they did a TV show. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harling Mays, Chris Collins, or Daniel Plainview, Long Legs, or Wilford Brimley in The Firm? I was thinking, I'm not gonna do Chris as Wilford Brimley, but-

• 1:50:58Speaker 02

  A heartbreak.

• 1:50:59Bill Simmons?

  It would be funny if like, bringing the photos of, to Catherine, say Catherine, here's your fiance, oral and whatnot, and he's just doing the whole, showing the photos.

• 1:51:12Speaker 02

  I would love it. Yeah, I accept.

• 1:51:15Bill Simmons?

  Just wanna ask her who gets it?

• 1:51:18Speaker 02

  Well, Carly Simon did get one, so.

• 1:51:21Speaker 03

  I really don't think you're

• 1:51:22Bill Simmons?

  Was it the right one?

• 1:51:22Speaker 03

  Putting enough respect on Joan Cusack in supporting.

• 1:51:28Speaker 03

  $6,000 and it's not even leather?

• 1:51:31Bill Simmons?

  I do like the Madonna thing where she's like, I

• 1:51:34Speaker 02

  That's really good.

• 1:51:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, doesn't make me Madonna. Like, I think this is what a supporting actress Oscar should be.

• 1:51:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:41Speaker 03

  Is just like a really fun.

• 1:51:43Bill Simmons?

  Part that normally wins nomination, you know what I mean?

• 1:51:45Speaker 03

  Not necessarily true. I just think that like, you know, your Mira Sorvino's and your Marisa Tomei's, you know, like.

• 1:51:52Bill Simmons?

  Fair.

• 1:51:52Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 1:51:53Bill Simmons?

  I can see that in the movie enough, though. I don't know. I thought if you're gonna take some of the spots that got taken, like Susan Sarandon in Bull Durham, like, like.

• 1:52:03Speaker 02

  That is true. That she's, she's very good in that.

• 1:52:07Speaker 03

  What do you say for this?

• 1:52:09Bill Simmons?

  Melanie Griffith.

• 1:52:10Speaker 02

  Okay, I'm open to it.

• 1:52:12Bill Simmons?

  But I still think Glenn Close should have won that year.

• 1:52:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:14Bill Simmons?

  Carly Simon's fine.

• 1:52:16Speaker 02

  I, it's a good one.

• 1:52:17Bill Simmons?

  Rom com gospel I'm here for.

• 1:52:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:19Bill Simmons?

  Probably an answerable questions.

• 1:52:22Bill Simmons?

  I have three. Do you guys have any?

• 1:52:23Speaker 02

  I have one, yeah.

• 1:52:24Bill Simmons?

  Go ahead.

• 1:52:25Speaker 02

  What do the lyrics of Let the River Run mean?

• 1:52:29Speaker 03

  The New Jerusalem?

• 1:52:30Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I understand what that means, but let me read it.

• 1:52:33Bill Simmons?

  Which river are we talking?

• 1:52:34Speaker 02

  Trembling, shaking. It's there for the taking. Let the river run.

• 1:52:38Speaker 03

  We're coming to the edge, running out of water.

• 1:52:40Speaker 02

  Right. Um, your eyes are the color of blue that you've only never seen in the eyes of your lover or whatever. Okay, the sky is the color of blue. Okay, so they're like, they're going somewhere. They're building a city.

• 1:52:53Speaker 03

  I think it ties back into your whole, like, immigrant.

• 1:52:56Speaker 02

  I mean, I think that's right, but I'm just saying it's not like the most evocative poetry that I have ever read.

• 1:53:01Bill Simmons?

  Is it a New York river or just a, of, just a river of life?

• 1:53:06Speaker 02

  Symbolic river. And energy. It's, yeah, it's an energetic river.

• 1:53:09Speaker 03

  It's the Hudson River.

• 1:53:10Bill Simmons?

  So the answer.

• 1:53:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:12Bill Simmons?

  I have an answer.

• 1:53:12Speaker 03

  Let the Hudson River run.

• 1:53:13Bill Simmons?

  There's just an incredible amount of cocaine going on in the areas. And at some point, at five in the morning, these lyrics made a ton of sense.

• 1:53:20Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:53:20Bill Simmons?

  And they just kind of ran with it.

• 1:53:21Speaker 02

  Trembling, shaking, oh, my heart is aching is an accurate representation of what's happening.

• 1:53:25Bill Simmons?

  Five thirty in the morning.

• 1:53:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:28Bill Simmons?

  What do you have, Joanna?

• 1:53:30Speaker 03

  Okay, it's not what did Jack ever see in Catherine Parker because it's a Gorney Weaver. But how did that ever progress beyond just like, we have sex a couple of times?

• 1:53:39Bill Simmons?

  It's just corporate, corporate arrangement.

• 1:53:41Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, I think it's sort of like social business climate. It just reflects poorly on him. And it underlines Craig's point that maybe Jack Trainor is not the best guy we've ever met.

• 1:53:50Speaker 02

  He's a sleazoid too, until he's not, you know?

• 1:53:54Bill Simmons?

  It's like if Sean was single and he just started dating like the CEO's daughter of Letterboxd. And it's like, I don't trust Sean's intentions. What's he up to?

• 1:54:04Speaker 03

  Marriage, marriage is, yeah, it's a business contract.

• 1:54:06Bill Simmons?

  By the way, I was gonna make a big deal about starting a Letterboxd account, like the, cause I refused to do it.

• 1:54:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:12Bill Simmons?

  And start it, and then all the movies would be completely fucking weird.

• 1:54:15Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah, yeah.

• 1:54:16Bill Simmons?

  Like Cinemax movies from the 90s and just every choice would be weird and people would be like, what's going on with that guy? No movie would be good. That's, I've been thinking about it.

• 1:54:26Speaker 03

  Why is this a what if? Why aren't you doing this already?

• 1:54:29Speaker 02

  I did start a Letterboxd profile, and then I don't use it because it's just like way too much homework. But my, it's not a picture of me, obviously, because like, what are we doing? It is a picture of-

• 1:54:38Bill Simmons?

  Is that getting you coffee?

• 1:54:39Speaker 02

  No, it's Melanie Griffith in the red glasses from Okay Girl is my icon. Yeah, thank you, yeah.

• 1:54:44Bill Simmons?

  All right, here are my three unanswered questions.

• 1:54:46Speaker 03

  I also have a Letterboxd I don't use.

• 1:54:47Speaker 02

  It's just like, I don't know, log? Listen, you know, I got a life.

• 1:54:52Bill Simmons?

  One of these is gonna make you both mad.

• 1:54:54Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:54:56Bill Simmons?

  Dim some dumplings at an office party?

• 1:54:59Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:55:00Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 1:55:02Speaker 02

  I mean, it's, the steam, I think, does not work with her hair, yeah.

• 1:55:06Speaker 03

  You just can't, they're not passed. You need like a table.

• 1:55:09Bill Simmons?

  You need to dip them. Now I have sauce. I'm dripping sauce on my shirt. I have bad breath. I'm getting stuff stuck in my teeth.

• 1:55:17Speaker 02

  You know, the spoon and the dumplings with the sauce and then you do the-

• 1:55:20Bill Simmons?

  No, and not a lot of people like dumplings. It's a bad choice.

• 1:55:24Speaker 03

  What's your number one top tier party food?

• 1:55:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:27Bill Simmons?

  Look, there's a lot. I'm just saying, dim some dumpling. You want past hors d'oeuvres to be, hit, check the most boxes for people.

• 1:55:34Speaker 03

  Salmon and crème fraiche on some puff pastry? Is that what you're looking for?

• 1:55:37Speaker 02

  Best one I ever had was coconut shrimp, shrimp, at my friend Tim and Jen's wedding.

• 1:55:41Bill Simmons?

  Coconut shrimp's good. Not everyone eats shrimp. I mean, it's hard. You're never gonna land the, pigs in the blanket is always good if it's the right one and they're smaller.

• 1:55:47Speaker 02

  That was my one request of the wedding.

• 1:55:49Speaker 03

  In-N-Out Burger out of any fair Oscar party.

• 1:55:53Bill Simmons?

  You have to hold the burger.

• 1:55:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:54Speaker 02

  It's also so big. A slider is better.

• 1:55:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:56Speaker 02

  Went to a wedding recently with little mini lobster rolls, like an inch big on, on pretzel rolls.

• 1:56:02Speaker 03

  I think you can do dumplings, just not hot piping freshly steamed ones.

• 1:56:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:08Bill Simmons?

  That are dripping. Craig, what are your thoughts?

• 1:56:10Speaker 06

  That's fair. I think you could do a pot sticker.

• 1:56:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:12Bill Simmons?

  Pot sticker.

• 1:56:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:14Bill Simmons?

  Pot sticker way more sense.

• 1:56:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:15Bill Simmons?

  What's your favorite, uh, party order?

• 1:56:17Speaker 06

  Pigs in a blanket. I'm defeated.

• 1:56:19Bill Simmons?

  Pigs in a blanket.

• 1:56:19Speaker 03

  It's true. It's true.

• 1:56:20Bill Simmons?

  All guys, you're, you're getting 50% of the room immediately.

• 1:56:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:24Bill Simmons?

  Plus maybe 25% of

• 1:56:26Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:56:27Bill Simmons?

  the rest of the room.

• 1:56:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:28Bill Simmons?

  So you're batting 75%.

• 1:56:29Speaker 03

  Pigs in a blanket are good for people who like are, are never gonna eat a hot dog, but they kind of miss eating a hot dog. And they're like, oh, I can have a pig in a blanket. Yeah.

• 1:56:36Bill Simmons?

  There's some, some split up buffalo chicken finger stuff you could do.

• 1:56:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:41Bill Simmons?

  With like the toothpicks.

• 1:56:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:56:42Bill Simmons?

  Where it's like, you could dip it, not dip it. Maybe there's some blue cheese.

• 1:56:45Speaker 02

  The, you know, the Chick-fil-A party platter is the Amanda Dobbins signature. Yeah. You are, you are there. You can come next year.

• 1:56:51Speaker 03

  All right.

• 1:56:52Speaker 02

  Everyone's invited. Holiday party.

• 1:56:53Bill Simmons?

  Honestly, I was in awe.

• 1:56:56Speaker 02

  Thank you. Yeah.

• 1:56:57Bill Simmons?

  I was in awe. It was one of the smartest party things I've ever seen.

• 1:57:00Speaker 02

  Listen, and it's because when, growing up in Atlanta, you go to a boring holiday party, Chick-fil-A platter.

• 1:57:05Bill Simmons?

  Super easy to eat. They kept coming out.

• 1:57:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:08Bill Simmons?

  People are getting a little drunker, a little drunker. And then all of a sudden you just see like four guys like

• 1:57:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:13Bill Simmons?

  It, it checked all the boxes.

• 1:57:15Speaker 02

  It's, it's, it's undefeated.

• 1:57:17Bill Simmons?

  There's probably none left at the end of the night.

• 1:57:18Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:57:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:20Bill Simmons?

  All right. My second unanswerable question. Does Harrison Ford ever actually have sex in movies? Just presumed innocent. I couldn't think of

• 1:57:29Speaker 03

  Uh, what about, what about what lies in his?

• 1:57:31Bill Simmons?

  Sex. Doesn't though. It's like a lot of like kissing, but not.

• 1:57:35Speaker 03

  No, doesn't he have sex with Amanda Dobbins?

• 1:57:37Speaker 02

  Like, what are we defining as, does he actually have sex in a movie? You know, we're sort of getting sidetracked here. Not to Mallory this out.

• 1:57:43Bill Simmons?

  Witness, it's a lot of like longing and lusting, but.

• 1:57:47Speaker 02

  So are you talking about like, is he disrobed in the bed?

• 1:57:50Bill Simmons?

  I think it was a very intentional choice from the moment he was Han Solo on.

• 1:57:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:55Bill Simmons?

  To be like, I'm not, there's a line, like, I'm not gonna be in Fatal Attraction fucking Glenn Close against Kitchen Sake.

• 1:58:01Speaker 02

  So basically like a bare butt situation.

• 1:58:03Speaker 03

  Presumed innocent.

• 1:58:04Bill Simmons?

  That's it. That was the only thing he said. Yeah. That's the only time where he really gets it on with somebody. Other than that, not really.

• 1:58:10Speaker 02

  Shirtless. He like, so you're just talking about like sex scenes?

• 1:58:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Like Michael Douglas.

• 1:58:15Speaker 02

  Well, sure.

• 1:58:16Bill Simmons?

  Not only have sex scenes, but he'll like his balls will be flapping around.

• 1:58:19Speaker 02

  Made his career on it, you know?

• 1:58:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:21Speaker 02

  Can you, the first Michael Douglas movie I ever saw was American President, and then I went backwards. Can you imagine?

• 1:58:27Bill Simmons?

  Oh, my lord.

• 1:58:27Speaker 02

  I like, I still.

• 1:58:29Bill Simmons?

  Like, character support is never gonna be the cop in Basic Instinct, I guess is my point. All right.

• 1:58:35Bill Simmons?

  I think it was an intentional choice. All right, this is probably the one that makes you mad.

• 1:58:38Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:58:40Bill Simmons?

  Probably an answerable question is the category.

• 1:58:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:58:43Bill Simmons?

  Are we, are we sure Tess isn't the villain of this movie?

• 1:58:47Speaker 02

  You could play it that way.

• 1:58:49Bill Simmons?

  Her boss's boyfriend and job.

• 1:58:52Speaker 03

  Okay. Rebuttal.

• 1:58:54Bill Simmons?

  And, and steal it just because her feelings are hurt.

• 1:58:57Speaker 03

  The boyfriend's gonna, just because they're feeling for her? No, she was stealing her idea and passing it off as her own.

• 1:59:03Bill Simmons?

  She worked for her.

• 1:59:05Speaker 03

  But she was lying to her about it. She was like, nice idea.

• 1:59:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:59:08Bill Simmons?

  Just talking it out.

• 1:59:09Speaker 03

  Okay, Bill, this is good information.

• 1:59:11Bill Simmons?

  No, just, I'm talking it out. I'm talking it out. I'm trying to defend the Courtney Weaver.

• 1:59:15Speaker 03

  Keep your good ideas close to your head.

• 1:59:16Bill Simmons?

  The assistant works for her. The assistant is assisting her.

• 1:59:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:59:20Bill Simmons?

  Has an idea, and she says, you know what, I'm gonna tuck that one away and not tell anyone. Goes skiing, breaks her leg, and then this person takes her entire life.

• 1:59:28Speaker 03

  Right. Hard disagree. I understand that like, if you're the boss.

• 1:59:33Bill Simmons?

  That's why it's unanswerable.

• 1:59:33Speaker 03

  If you're the boss, and you're like, I like your idea, I will be leading this deal. That's fine, because you're the boss. You're not gonna say, hey Tess, you lead this deal, it's your idea. She's the boss, she can lead it. But she doesn't, you don't lie to her and say, you know?

• 1:59:48Speaker 02

  The dictaphone where she's like, hard copy from the home computer, do not go through Tess.

• 1:59:53Speaker 03

  Let Tess know.

• 1:59:54Speaker 02

  Suggest.

• 1:59:55Speaker 03

  And then like.

• 1:59:55Bill Simmons?

  Fair counter.

• 1:59:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:59:56Speaker 03

  And it's so patronizing to her, and she's like, I really tried.

• 1:59:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a two-way street, and if you had seen this, you simply would have asked me about it.

• 2:00:04Bill Simmons?

  Obviously, I've been in charge of some stuff. One of the best things you can do is if somebody works for you and they have a good idea, you then give them credit after the fact that they had the idea.

• 2:00:12Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:00:13Bill Simmons?

  With that said, she did steal her job and her man in this movie.

• 2:00:18Speaker 02

  She didn't steal her job.

• 2:00:19Speaker 03

  No, she got a different job.

• 2:00:20Speaker 02

  Tess doesn't get the corner office.

• 2:00:22Bill Simmons?

  She stole the merger. She, she led that to get an extra level job.

• 2:00:26Speaker 02

  Catherine has no mergers, no acquisitions, no ideas.

• 2:00:30Speaker 03

  She has dim sum parties. She has dim sum parties and weird perverts hitting on her.

• 2:00:35Speaker 06

  In Bill's defense.

• 2:00:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:37Speaker 06

  I agree with.

• 2:00:38Bill Simmons?

  See, Craig sees it.

• 2:00:38Speaker 06

  I agree with Joanna and Amanda, however, in Bill's defense.

• 2:00:43Speaker 06

  Tess has been working for Catherine for like 48 hours. And like, sure, maybe Catherine wasn't the nicest. To just kind of immediately risk your entire career by kind of like taking her job is pretty bold as an assistant.

• 2:00:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:00:56Speaker 03

  And that's the point of the movie. So Gwyneth Weaver tells her, don't wait for your opportunities to come to you. You have to go after and get them.

• 2:01:03Speaker 02

  And she says to Joan Cusack, like, I'm supposed to follow these rules that I didn't make up. So that I can't like, don't ever get what I want.

• 2:01:10Bill Simmons?

  You rationalize it to yourself however you want.

• 2:01:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:01:12Bill Simmons?

  Karate Kid, when they made the Cobra Kai and they were like, we're flipping this. Johnny Lawrence, maybe he was the victim and maybe Daniel-san was the bad guy.

• 2:01:21Speaker 03

  For the Catherine Parker show.

• 2:01:22Bill Simmons?

  I think you flip it around. It's like Catherine's life is that ruin from this assistant she had for 48 hours.

• 2:01:27Speaker 02

  It is.

• 2:01:28Bill Simmons?

  She's got a limp.

• 2:01:28Speaker 03

  YouTube, if you're still making original TV content, call Gwyneth Weaver.

• 2:01:33Speaker 02

  The thing about Devil Wears Prada is that it does sort of understand your point and that like the Anne Hathaway character.

• 2:01:42Speaker 06

  Being down over time.

• 2:01:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, but like, and she has that moment in the car of like, you already did, you did it to Emily. I was doing.

• 2:01:49Bill Simmons?

  We talked about this on the pod. Anne Hathaway ultimately bad person in the movie.

• 2:01:53Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly. That's true. But I, but the movie knows that and is written that way. The working girl is not written.

• 2:01:59Speaker 03

  If, I think if Tess treated her new assistant at all remotely shabbily.

• 2:02:06Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:02:07Speaker 03

  Then it's the Devil Wears Prada thing where she's just like.

• 2:02:10Bill Simmons?

  Cool, so.

• 2:02:11Speaker 02

  Right, and also we have that last, the last shot, which is still, it's, she doesn't get Catherine's office.

• 2:02:16Bill Simmons?

  You're on the record, you support identity theft and man stealing. That's what we learned.

• 2:02:20Speaker 02

  It's not, it's not identity theft. She uses her own name, which is another thing that you could not do now.

• 2:02:25Speaker 03

  You can't steal a man that isn't hers. No.

• 2:02:28Bill Simmons?

  They were dating.

• 2:02:28Speaker 06

  That's, she didn't know that though.

• 2:02:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, he was over it.

• 2:02:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:02:32Bill Simmons?

  Devor is Prada. She's a much worse person.

• 2:02:35Speaker 02

  Way worse. So annoying. So entitled.

• 2:02:37Bill Simmons?

  And poor Vince from Autobots. No, I made you a grilled cheese.

• 2:02:41Speaker 03

  That guy sucks.

• 2:02:46Speaker 03

  Just because she sucks doesn't mean he doesn't suck because he does.

• 2:02:49Speaker 02

  He does, yeah.

• 2:02:49Bill Simmons?

  I put some extra Yarlsberg in it. You like in a little mustard. What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie?

• 2:02:57Speaker 03

  The Sigourney Warrhals.

• 2:02:59Speaker 02

  Oh, that's a good one. I want the dress. Like the dress that she wears. Yeah.

• 2:03:04Speaker 03

  It's not even leather.

• 2:03:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't want to think it would suit me. I Googled inflation. I think it would be $16,000 now. Because it's 6,000 in the movie.

• 2:03:14Bill Simmons?

  The bunny?

• 2:03:15Speaker 02

  The bunny?

• 2:03:16Speaker 03

  What about the gorilla?

• 2:03:17Bill Simmons?

  The bunny she brings to the office.

• 2:03:18Speaker 02

  For a minute, I thought we were talking about Fatal Attraction again. I was like, no.

• 2:03:22Speaker 03

  The gorilla?

• 2:03:24Speaker 02

  Oh, that's a good one.

• 2:03:24Speaker 03

  Catherine's gorilla?

• 2:03:25Bill Simmons?

  I think the answer.

• 2:03:26Speaker 02

  Right there in the corner where she used to be.

• 2:03:33Bill Simmons?

  He hated this movie.

• 2:03:35Speaker 03

  No, Sweets just hated your hot take.

• 2:03:36Bill Simmons?

  What about the two tall Harrison Ford Llewellyn wedding glasses with the straws? Movie, movie used glasses.

• 2:03:44Speaker 02

  Those are good.

• 2:03:45Bill Simmons?

  Props.

• 2:03:45Speaker 02

  Harrison Ford put his lips here.

• 2:03:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson. You don't get anywhere in this world by waiting for what you want to come to you. You make it happen.

• 2:03:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:03:56Bill Simmons?

  Even if you have to steal identity and somebody's man.

• 2:03:59Speaker 03

  Yeah. Check the milligrams.

• 2:04:02Bill Simmons?

  Check the milligrams for Valium.

• 2:04:07Bill Simmons?

  Double feature choice.

• 2:04:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:04:09Bill Simmons?

  What do you have for working girl?

• 2:04:11Speaker 02

  I have a triple feature. I think this baby boom and broadcast news are like a very fun, you know.

• 2:04:17Speaker 03

  I had baby boom and broadcast news, but also morning glory.

• 2:04:21Speaker 02

  Love morning glory. Oh, my gosh.

• 2:04:23Speaker 03

  Rachel McAdams, working girl.

• 2:04:25Bill Simmons?

  Karen, Karen's favorite.

• 2:04:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know. It's incredible. And Harrison Ford.

• 2:04:28Speaker 03

  Harrison Ford, yeah. In the sort of, yeah.

• 2:04:31Bill Simmons?

  You could talk me into Working Girl with Pretty Woman, back to back.

• 2:04:34Speaker 02

  Good.

• 2:04:35Bill Simmons?

  1988, 1990.

• 2:04:36Speaker 02

  Just so you can get mad at Gary Marshall for what he stole.

• 2:04:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Double Cinderella, and then you're watching Pretty Woman, seeing all the things they took.

• 2:04:43Speaker 02

  There's also Witness, it's just double hot Harrison Ford.

• 2:04:46Bill Simmons?

  Well, I think that there's a Devil Wears Prada case, is the story.

• 2:04:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:04:50Bill Simmons?

  Because that steals, but way, way more subtly, from some stuff, but just, it's 88, not 2006, two different eras.

• 2:04:58Speaker 03

  If I were to pick from any of these great options, I think my number one would be Baby Boom, because it's not as seen. And if you could get people in the door for Working Girl and say, stay tuned to watch Diane Keaton start a baby food empire, then, um...

• 2:05:12Speaker 02

  And Sam Shepard.

• 2:05:13Speaker 03

  You're doing good work.

• 2:05:13Speaker 02

  Sam Shepard in Baby Boom does not meet Harrison Ford in Working Girl, but like, it's getting up there. He's just like in Vermont.

• 2:05:21Speaker 03

  Country veterinarian, right?

• 2:05:23Speaker 02

  Let me help you.

• 2:05:23Bill Simmons?

  Is he the all-time number one, every woman loves somebody guy?

• 2:05:28Speaker 02

  Besides Harrison Ford, yes, and they are like of a type.

• 2:05:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:05:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's powerful.

• 2:05:34Speaker 03

  Sam, if Sam Shepard was still with us, he would be in a Taylor Sheridan show.

• 2:05:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he's, he's an all-timer.

• 2:05:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:05:40Bill Simmons?

  Who won the movie?

• 2:05:42Speaker 03

  Melanie Griffith.

• 2:05:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:05:43Bill Simmons?

  I think it's Melanie Griffith. Roger Ebert, our guy, wrote, "This is Melanie Griffith's movie in the same way The Graduate belonged to Dustin Hoffman. She was not an obvious casting choice, but she's the right one." I agree with that.

• 2:05:54Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 2:05:56Bill Simmons?

  All right, producer Craig.

• 2:05:57Speaker 02

  This is a delight.

• 2:05:58Bill Simmons?

  No, we gotta get Craig's say.

• 2:05:59Speaker 03

  Craig, yeah.

• 2:06:00Bill Simmons?

  Thirty-eight years ago, this movie came out, which means Craig was minus seven, minus six?

• 2:06:07Speaker 06

  Thirty-eight, it's minus eight.

• 2:06:08Bill Simmons?

  Minus eight? What do you got, Craig?

• 2:06:10Speaker 06

  This movie, single-handedly, saved Liz's relationship with the Rewatchables.

• 2:06:14Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah, we were in a rough room. Death Wish did not go well.

• 2:06:18Speaker 06

  We were, it was a dark, it was a dark time after Death Wish. This really pulled her out of the mud. Uh, when this movie ended, she was like, best movie ever made. I believe was her exact quote.

• 2:06:26Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 2:06:27Speaker 03

  Great.

• 2:06:27Bill Simmons?

  Better than Country Struck?

• 2:06:28Speaker 06

  I think a little better, a little better, although she loves Gwyneth. But, um, this is a wonderful rom com. I like, I like it because I feel like the rom coms from back in the day are a little bit edgier.

• 2:06:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:38Speaker 06

  There's just a little bit of unpredictability in these, a little bit of edge in these. And even the rom coms that have succeeded in the last like 10 or so years are like, you know, like Anyone But You. Those just have a safeness to them, like a glossiness to them. And these have, uh, no one's really bland. The characters are a little bit deeper, you know, like Harrison Ford's character being like a little bit questionable at times. I just like that the eighties and nineties kind of provide that in these rom coms.

• 2:07:03Speaker 03

  Agree.

• 2:07:03Bill Simmons?

  You know, I have a theory on this. Not to get all philosophical. Um, there wasn't a lot going on in the eighties. You just kind of worked and then you went out and you watched television and listened to music and went to sporting events and.

• 2:07:16Speaker 03

  What do you mean?

• 2:07:17Bill Simmons?

  We didn't have, we had nothing.

• 2:07:18Speaker 06

  What do we do now?

• 2:07:19Bill Simmons?

  We had no.

• 2:07:20Speaker 03

  You had MTV.

• 2:07:21Bill Simmons?

  We had no internet, anything.

• 2:07:23Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:07:23Bill Simmons?

  People were around each other all the time.

• 2:07:25Speaker 03

  You didn't have devices.

• 2:07:26Bill Simmons?

  Being people.

• 2:07:27Speaker 03

  You didn't have the internet.

• 2:07:28Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:07:28Speaker 03

  As, as, uh, intensely.

• 2:07:30Bill Simmons?

  Interacting with other people was basically everything you had to do.

• 2:07:33Speaker 03

  You couldn't go down your phone.

• 2:07:34Bill Simmons?

  Sit at home and just read a book, or you could just actually go out where their people were.

• 2:07:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:38Bill Simmons?

  So, well, we, we all loved reading books. Um, but you know what I mean?

• 2:07:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I do.

• 2:07:44Bill Simmons?

  Like, so movies were able to tap into that in a way that I think the last 10 years of movies with social media. I think people have really.

• 2:07:53Speaker 02

  It all happens on your phone.

• 2:07:54Bill Simmons?

  I think they found out, even you see it in a lot, especially the later movies. They're really good now at showing people texting on phones. And like somebody to the phone and you'll see the text and, or they'll put the text on the screen and the texting. And I just don't think it's as good as just people being together.

• 2:08:09Speaker 03

  Oh, I agree.

• 2:08:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:08:10Bill Simmons?

  And so Anyone But You is a good example of that because that movie was, was really successful. And it was terrible.

• 2:08:16Speaker 03

  It was really bad.

• 2:08:17Bill Simmons?

  It's really bad. And guess what? My daughter watched it like seven times and loved it. And I'm like, I just, if that movie's winning over a movie like Working Girl, then that kind of tells us where we are.

• 2:08:27Speaker 03

  When do you think the last great rom com was?

• 2:08:30Speaker 02

  So I am not really even on board as late as 2005, six.

• 2:08:36Speaker 03

  I agree.

• 2:08:37Speaker 02

  So.

• 2:08:37Speaker 06

  Crazy Stupid Love doesn't do it?

• 2:08:39Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:08:39Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:08:40Speaker 02

  I'm sorry. And I, I have to tell you, I like, I think forgetting Sarah Marshall is really important and I appreciate.

• 2:08:46Bill Simmons?

  It's a comedy.

• 2:08:47Speaker 06

  A rom com.

• 2:08:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it's about, and it's about men. Um.

• 2:08:52Speaker 02

  So Notting Hill is 99.

• 2:08:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:54Speaker 02

  Bridget Jones' Diary is 2001.

• 2:08:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, you've got mail is.

• 2:08:58Speaker 02

  98.

• 2:08:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:59Speaker 02

  I want to say.

• 2:08:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09:00Speaker 02

  So.

• 2:09:00Bill Simmons?

  If my wife was here, she would throw out a lot like Love in 2004.

• 2:09:04Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:09:04Bill Simmons?

  One of her favorite movies ever.

• 2:09:07Speaker 03

  I would say.

• 2:09:08Speaker 02

  Is that the one where they sing Chicago to each other on the, in the car ride like, ooh.

• 2:09:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's powerful.

• 2:09:14Bill Simmons?

  That movie's elite.

• 2:09:15Speaker 03

  I think it's pre 2005, pre 2005.

• 2:09:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, because I, like, I, I have rewatched, um, How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days recently. You know, and sorry to the Knicks or whatever, but, um, it has not aged as well.

• 2:09:30Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:09:31Speaker 02

  As, as you would like.

• 2:09:32Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 2:09:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:09:33Bill Simmons?

  Not for my daughter. She loves that movie.

• 2:09:35Speaker 02

  I know, and that one, so that one and 27 Dresses are, I think, that like.

• 2:09:39Bill Simmons?

  27 Dresses is a good one.

• 2:09:40Speaker 02

  A slightly later generation.

• 2:09:42Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:42Speaker 03

  I just think they're not, they're not.

• 2:09:44Speaker 02

  I agree. I agree with you.

• 2:09:45Speaker 03

  Delivering the way that like the 90s and the 80s.

• 2:09:48Bill Simmons?

  I think, yeah, I think we kind of, the genre, I don't want to say it died, it just shifted into this 2010s, this.

• 2:09:56Speaker 03

  It's not being as smart.

• 2:09:57Bill Simmons?

  Movie Drinking Buddies.

• 2:09:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09:59Bill Simmons?

  It was on.

• 2:09:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:10:00Bill Simmons?

  On cable, but it was like those type of movies where.

• 2:10:02Speaker 03

  That's a mumble core, yeah.

• 2:10:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, like that mumble core era combined with like the brain dead, anyone but you type movies.

• 2:10:08Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:10:08Bill Simmons?

  And we never.

• 2:10:09Speaker 03

  We don't get the like Mike Nichols, Nora Ephron, like this is smart.

• 2:10:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:10:14Speaker 03

  And a rom com at the same time, you know what I mean?

• 2:10:16Speaker 02

  Also, it is a romantic comedy, but there is also the professional plotline as well. And it's as much about like, is Tess gonna get.

• 2:10:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, getting the man is not the point. Yeah, yeah.

• 2:10:26Speaker 02

  Shot, and the last scene is not about Harrison Ford, it's about her and her dream.

• 2:10:31Speaker 03

  And she calls Joan Cusack, she doesn't call Harrison Ford.

• 2:10:33Bill Simmons?

  Well, yeah, so you have, this is a rom com that has three, two of the best actors of the 80s.

• 2:10:38Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:10:39Bill Simmons?

  With Melanie Griffith, the breakout star. And then one of the most famous directors of.

• 2:10:42Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:10:43Bill Simmons?

  This whole generation.

• 2:10:44Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:10:44Bill Simmons?

  And now we do not have things like that.

• 2:10:46Speaker 02

  Romantic comedies now.

• 2:10:48Bill Simmons?

  I, I don't know, I, I just feel like we've done so many versions of the same idea that might be part of it too. Where you would still feel like people falling in love would be timeless, but every time you watch them, they're so self-aware to the movies that have already happened before them, they almost are afraid to be original.

• 2:11:07Speaker 03

  But you can do iterations, like I, I'm a big defender of You've Got Mail, I love that movie, and that's, that's a remake, that had, that's a story that had already been made like three other times before it was made for the A.L. era, you know what I mean?

• 2:11:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but that movie has two massive stars in it.

• 2:11:21Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, but you can remake story premises again and again and again, as long as you do it intelligently and have a good cast.

• 2:11:30Bill Simmons?

  The movie with Sudeikis and Alison Brie is good. When they're friends for a long time and then, I forget that one, yeah, that, that one is, that was early 2010s, I thought that was good. But I feel like by the time Amy and Paul Rudd made their rom-com, making fun of all the rom-coms, that was when we were kind of like all good with the genre.

• 2:11:49Speaker 02

  Well, the other thing is that there aren't, it's the movie star thing, right? Because you just identified that it's, whether it's Julia Roberts, or Tom Hanks, Meg Ryan, like, those are people who are already movie stars in, and they're like, early 30s, they're or the late 20s. And we don't have movie stars like that anymore, in the same way, because of superheroes or whatever.

• 2:12:11Speaker 03

  I just feel like I keep hearing like, oh, the rom-coms back when Set It Up, uh, pop.

• 2:12:16Speaker 02

  Which I like that movie.

• 2:12:17Speaker 03

  It's good, um, Nobody Wants This, which was a TV show, but a lot of people are like,

• 2:12:22Bill Simmons?

  you know. Set It Up is a good example, that hit and was successful.

• 2:12:24Speaker 03

  But it was like a Netflix, it was a Netflix movie, and a Netflix movie doesn't feel as big as, do you know what I mean? And Glenn Powell was not a star in the way that, that was like early 2018, right?

• 2:12:34Speaker 06

  That's the thing, is they become like lovable streaming hits.

• 2:12:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. Right. They're not like. Or TV shows. We're talking about Working Girl and Die Hard in the same conversation, and wouldn't put a rom-com in the same conversation as a big epic event movie anymore.

• 2:12:48Speaker 06

  The last duo we had was Gosling and Emma Stone.

• 2:12:51Speaker 03

  I will say. Crazy stupid. With the part of Crazy Stupid Love that is just them, that's a good rom com. Then there's a lot of other movies.

• 2:12:59Bill Simmons?

  You know, it's it's so different than sports because in sports, sports is constantly new and the athletes can change.

• 2:13:04Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:13:05Bill Simmons?

  And rom coms are competing. It's the ghosts of the iconic rom coms that are just better.

• 2:13:09Speaker 03

  Yes. Yeah.

• 2:13:11Bill Simmons?

  And I don't know, you go back to.

• 2:13:13Speaker 03

  I just think that like in the 90s, where there's a ton of great rom coms, you could argue, oh, well, they're competing with a screwball comedies in the 1940s, which were, you know, you can't beat Katherine Hepburn, you can't beat it, but they are. They they are equally great. So I feel like you can keep doing it. We just don't value it anymore. We just consider that small ball sort of.

• 2:13:32Bill Simmons?

  I think Craig's point about that they used to be edgier is an important point.

• 2:13:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:13:35Bill Simmons?

  Because even like About Last Night, which I don't think gets enough credit for 80s, kind of paving the way for When Harry Met Sally and some of these other ones. That's a pretty like.

• 2:13:46Speaker 03

  There's a lot of sex.

• 2:13:46Bill Simmons?

  R rated movie, there's sex.

• 2:13:48Speaker 03

  Right, yeah.

• 2:13:48Bill Simmons?

  Rob Lowe kind of goes nuts at one point.

• 2:13:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:13:51Bill Simmons?

  I just think that movie would be completely different. They remade it with Kevin Hart and Michael Ealy. It's just like, all right.

• 2:13:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, right.

• 2:13:58Bill Simmons?

  But I do think it's a star power thing.

• 2:14:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's definitely part of it.

• 2:14:02Bill Simmons?

  We never really replenished. We had this, you know, the every time like Sandra Bullock and Meg Ryan, and then it was like Next Generation, here's Reese Witherspoon, and then Kate Hudson's gonna make a bunch. We always had people to put in those and it was always a Matthew McConaughey. And now it's basically like Glenn Powell.

• 2:14:18Speaker 06

  Well, I think it felt like a necessary piece of the star playbook because you had to do your rom com and I don't think that's.

• 2:14:23Speaker 03

  Like Jennifer Lawrence and Emma Stone would be wonderful in them if they could write, if, you know, if someone committed like the script, the money and the the release.

• 2:14:34Speaker 06

  Nobody wants to pay those.

• 2:14:35Speaker 03

  But they don't want to do it. That's not their strategy. Emma Stone is instead like winning multiple Oscars for for art house movies.

• 2:14:40Speaker 06

  But people used to do both, which is cool.

• 2:14:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:14:43Bill Simmons?

  I would rather she did that than that Nathan Fielder show. I would rather she made, she remade Picture Perfect.

• 2:14:50Bill Simmons?

  We're sitting in a picture perfect. That's another one where somebody's pretending.

• 2:14:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:14:55Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I need a date for a wedding, so here's my fiance. This guy I just hired. That's such a great era.

• 2:15:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:15:01Bill Simmons?

  I think part of it is. The rom com premises were so crazy that I almost, they're too self aware now.

• 2:15:08Speaker 02

  They don't stand up to like any like ethics treatment.

• 2:15:11Speaker 03

  Right, so maybe, yeah, maybe we're too scared to be problematic.

• 2:15:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:15:15Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:15:16Speaker 06

  We should say that in a week, there is a rom com coming out starring Dakota Johnson with Celine Song is directing it.

• 2:15:21Speaker 03

  We saw it this week.

• 2:15:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, we saw it.

• 2:15:23Speaker 03

  And I would not call it a rom com.

• 2:15:24Speaker 02

  No, it's a romantic comedy. They're trying to market it.

• 2:15:26Speaker 03

  They're mismarketing it.

• 2:15:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:15:28Speaker 06

  Oh, never mind.

• 2:15:29Speaker 02

  It's in conversation.

• 2:15:31Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:15:31Speaker 02

  Like, that's the part of it that I really liked.

• 2:15:34Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:15:34Speaker 02

  But, yeah.

• 2:15:35Bill Simmons?

  Well, one of the most fun things about having a daughter was watching her hit all the rom com tiers with my wife, or sometimes by herself, but I just think there's a timelessness to them and it doesn't matter. Like, I'm positive my daughter would like working girl.

• 2:15:50Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:15:50Bill Simmons?

  Once she got past the hair, she would definitely like it.

• 2:15:53Speaker 02

  And it's also the way for her to learn about the 80s and the hair.

• 2:15:57Bill Simmons?

  True.

• 2:15:58Speaker 02

  You know, it is because the format is recognizable, so then it's just kind of like, yeah.

• 2:16:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:16:03Speaker 02

  It's like, that's, that's how I first learned about Wimbledon, was the 2004 film Wimbledon starring Kirsten Dunst and.

• 2:16:09Speaker 03

  Paul Bettany.

• 2:16:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:16:10Speaker 03

  And James McAvoy.

• 2:16:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, and now here we are.

• 2:16:13Bill Simmons?

  Amanda, a true pleasure. Joanna, a true pleasure.

• 2:16:16Speaker 03

  An honor.

• 2:16:17Speaker 02

  Thank you so much.

• 2:16:17Speaker 03

  Thanks for letting me witness this incredible moment of your career.

• 2:16:20Speaker 02

  It feels so great to be back.

• 2:16:21Bill Simmons?

  Producer Craig, always a pleasure. Who else do we have to thank?

• 2:16:25Speaker 06

  Marcelino.

• 2:16:27Bill Simmons?

  Thank you to him.

• 2:16:30Bill Simmons?

  I guess it's New York month, because we've done two New York movies in a row. Might have to do two more. Only need two more for New York month.

• 2:16:35Speaker 03

  Sounds great.

• 2:16:36Bill Simmons?

  These were two good ones, though. Thank you both.

• 2:16:38Speaker 03

  Thank you.