Geekin’ Out on Hip-Hop, with Logic

Drop That Track! Neil deGrasse Tyson discusses the fusion of hip-hop and science, the legacy of violence in hip-hop, the culture of music, and much more with rapper Logic, co-host Chuck Nice, and rapper/educator/DJ Steve Tyson, a.k.a The Intellect. NOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch/listen to this entire episode commercial-free. Find out more at https://www.startalkradio.net/startalk-all-access/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome to StarTalk. Your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. StarTalk begins right now.

• 0:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome to StarTalk. I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson, your personal astrophysicist, and I'm also the director of New York City's Hayden Planetarium at the American Museum of Natural History. And I've got with me my co-host Chuck Nice.

• 0:35Chuck Nice?

  Hey!

• 0:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Chuck, your baby, longtime veteran of StarTalk Radio.

• 0:39Chuck Nice?

  Absolutely, and the director of my home.

• 0:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Keep telling yourself that.

• 0:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But you're actually host of the new spinoff from StarTalk. StarTalk has got so badass, we got a spinoff.

• 0:52Chuck Nice?

  That's right, my friend.

• 0:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We spun off because our sports shows were doing so well that we said, "Let's just make a whole thing."

• 0:58Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, so it's called Playing with Science, and it features Gary O'Reilly, who was the co-host of the show, along with yours truly.

• 1:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And he's an ex-footballer from the UK.

• 1:07Chuck Nice?

  He's an ex-footballer from the UK. And it's a science-sports smash-up where, as you say, jocks and geeks collide. And as I say, without a concussion.

• 1:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, good. So today ain't about any of that. We're talking about the fusion of hip-hop culture.

• 1:29Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 1:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And science, featuring my interview with the rapper Logic.

• 1:33Chuck Nice?

  Nice.

• 1:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes.

• 1:35Chuck Nice?

  Well, it's a great name for a rapper who's interested in science.

• 1:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, and joining us in studio today is hip-hop artist and educator Steve Tyson. Welcome. Thank you. Glad to be here. So where'd you get the name Tyson from? Well, I was born with it, as you might know.

• 1:51Chuck Nice?

  There you go.

• 1:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The dude's my nephew.

• 1:53Chuck Nice?

  That's right.

• 1:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He's my nephew. Now, normally when your nephew shows up to be a guest on the show, because you couldn't think of anybody else and you ran out of folks.

• 2:01Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 2:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But not in this case.

• 2:03Chuck Nice?

  No, no.

• 2:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Just to make that clear.

• 2:05Chuck Nice?

  This was an actual attempt to have... He was a first choice.

• 2:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, first choice.

• 2:09Chuck Nice?

  First choice.

• 2:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  First choice, just to make that clear, in case anybody's wondering.

• 2:11Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 2:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Now you gotta demonstrate why that was the case.

• 2:17Chuck Nice?

  No pressure, no pressure at all. See, I like that. He's got the swag. He's like, "No problem."

• 2:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, he got it. He was on it. And you're also known as DJ Ear to Ear.

• 2:26Chuck Nice?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Is that your, that's your performing name?

• 2:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, whenever I DJ. When I'm rapping, I'm known as the intellect.

• 2:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 2:32Chuck Nice?

  Oh, nice.

• 2:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right.

• 2:33Chuck Nice?

  Sweet.

• 2:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And, and you're working on your doctorate in...

• 2:36Speaker 02

  In educational leadership.

• 2:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, all right. And, and where are you, where are you, where are you working on that?

• 2:41Speaker 02

  I'm currently studying at Arcady University, where I also teach.

• 2:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Arcady Teach, okay.

• 2:45Chuck Nice?

  Oh, okay.

• 2:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And your co-founder, Just Listen Entertainment?

• 2:48Speaker 02

  Yep, that's right.

• 2:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  My boy is just...

• 2:50Chuck Nice?

  You are, you're a busy young man.

• 2:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm proud of him.

• 2:53Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 2:53Speaker 02

  Gotta keep the attention focused on everything.

• 2:55Chuck Nice?

  That's right, man. Yeah. I, I see it runs in the family.

• 2:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And some of our fans might know, that, they might recognize his voice. Just say anything right now, say...

• 3:05Speaker 02

  It's StarTalk. All Stars. Science. That's how it all starts.

• 3:10Chuck Nice?

  Nice.

• 3:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yes, uh, he wrote, produced, and recorded the intro theme to our StarTalk All-Star show.

• 3:17Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 3:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So that's it. He's got it. I'm feeling it. Also, what else you do? We had you, you performed StarTalk at the Apollo Theater.

• 3:24Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  For us.

• 3:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was great.

• 3:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That was good. That was good. But this is actually your first time as a studio guest. So thank, thanks for...

• 3:31Speaker 02

  Thanks for having us.

• 3:32Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 3:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Take your time out of your study schedule.

• 3:34Chuck Nice?

  And... We had your dad on the TV show.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  That's right, that's right. With Sean Lennon.

• 3:38Chuck Nice?

  That's right, yeah. So tell Uncle to get his act together. Got you on the podcast, man. Yeah.

• 3:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Tell you, get no respect.

• 3:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, Logic. Logic dropped an album in 2017.

• 3:55Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 3:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Titled "Everybody." And it just showed up at number one on the Billboard Top 200.

• 4:01Chuck Nice?

  Cool.

• 4:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  There it was, number one. And I actually appeared twice on that album.

• 4:08Chuck Nice?

  What?

• 4:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You didn't know that?

• 4:09Chuck Nice?

  No.

• 4:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You didn't know that?

• 4:10Chuck Nice?

  I just thought it was like, he had a guy that sounded like Neil deGrasse Tyson.

• 4:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We'll get back to that. But that's not why we're talking about it, right? Um, he's actually a deep thinker. And he uses his platform as a performing artist to engage discussions of social issues. Plus, he's got serious street geek cred.

• 4:33Chuck Nice?

  Street geek cred?

• 4:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 4:35Chuck Nice?

  I like that.

• 4:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, cuz some geeks on the street.

• 4:37Chuck Nice?

  Right. Exactly. Yeah.

• 4:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Not all geeks are in the lab.

• 4:41Chuck Nice?

  Right, exactly.

• 4:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You got the street folk.

• 4:43Chuck Nice?

  Right, exactly. Gimme your lunch money. Now allow me to calculate exactly how I will be able to use this.

• 4:52Speaker 02

  Smartest tusslers.

• 4:53Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 4:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Um, so, so that's, we get this. And now, but Steve, you're, you're pursuing a PhD. And you also wanna be a hip-hop artist.

• 5:03Speaker 02

  Damn, a hip-hop artist.

• 5:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  R, excuse me.

• 5:07Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, I didn't wanna say anything. I was like, this is a family thing. I'ma stay out of it, but. When you, when you said wanna be, I was like, oh snap.

• 5:18Speaker 02

  The family holding you down. Family holding you down.

• 5:20Chuck Nice?

  He was like, and you wanna be a family. I was like, it's just got real.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  Cuz I'm still Lil' Steve, no matter what. I'm still Lil' Steve.

• 5:28Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, it's like my mom, I go home and my mother's just like, "So I, I, I saw you on the TV the other day, so that was nice, and what's your backup plan?"

• 5:38Speaker 02

  Right. Telling them jokes, Chuck.

• 5:41Chuck Nice?

  Exactly. Can you really make a living telling jokes?

• 5:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So how are you, how are you cross-pollinating hip-hop and your educational degree?

• 5:50Speaker 02

  I mean, they're synonymous to me. Uh, between all of the studies that I've done academically, whether, whether it was undergrad, my masters, or my doctorate, hip-hop has permeated all of that. I mean, so it's who I am.

• 6:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, but I think most people don't know that they're permeatable. So you're gonna be evidence that it's not only possible, but something that could even be promoted.

• 6:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, but I think that there's also some people who have done that in the past, but might not necessarily have either forayed into the artist's side as much, or, you know, um, whatever the case may be. But I, I don't think I'm the first one, but I'm definitely here.

• 6:24Chuck Nice?

  Okay, alright, I like it. That's the kind of confidence we need when it comes to hip-hop.

• 6:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In the house.

• 6:30Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 6:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In the house. So, I mean, I sat down with Logic, he came through town, visited my office, and he's well-known as someone who delivers a message of hope through his music.

• 6:42Chuck Nice?

  That's very cool.

• 6:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's always a good thing. And this is hope instead of despair, because there's so much despair in the world. And so, he talked to me about some of the challenges he had to overcome in order to become who he is today.

• 6:56Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 6:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So let's check it out.

• 6:58Speaker 03

  So I came up on welfare, food stamps, Section 8 housing. Unfortunately, both of my parents were addicted to drugs and alcohol, and my father wasn't really there that much in my life, unfortunately. Now, here's the crazy thing. In 4th grade, my... Just the people at my school kind of knew that my household wasn't that great. And so, they believed that because my mother had problems, that I had problems, even mentally, or that I was disturbed, or had whatever the case may be. And because of this, they put me in a special needs class, but it was more so for like the, uh, just people that had been emotionally disturbed or something like that. So I was dealing with like, pretty badass kids that wanted to like, fight me all the time. So when they put me in this program, took me out of my school, put me in a completely different school, I had to take the short bus, it sucked, you know what I mean?

• 7:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The short bus.

• 7:43Speaker 03

  Short bus, and that's fine. And so, but anyway, so I get there, and, you know, these kids are like, trying to fight me, and just all these things, but I couldn't do it, I couldn't fight back. I knew that I couldn't act out, even to defend myself, because I would then just be proving their point that I deserved to be in this class. So at this point, it was just so...

• 8:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're resisting the cookie-cut mold that they're trying to put you in.

• 8:05Speaker 03

  Yes, and they tried to say I had ADD, and I had all these different things, which wasn't the case. It was just that I wasn't being challenged, and I wasn't being taught the right way, how I needed to be taught, uh, myself. So, my mother took me out, and she homeschooled me. Now, this was like, the crazy... So she homeschooled me for 3 years. Now unfortunately, as I said, my mother was an alcoholic, so she would sleep all day, and she wouldn't teach me a thing. So, 3 years went by, okay? And now I'm supposed to be in 8th grade, and essentially, you know, the state calls and they go, "Hey, you have to put your son back in public school, or there's going to be..." A problem, you know what I mean? Uh, we're gonna take your son from you, did it out, whatever. So, she goes, "Okay, okay." Hadn't really taught me anything, except a little bit of Hooked on Phonics. And goes, "All right, we're gonna put him back." And the school system puts me in eighth grade, with a fourth grade education.

• 8:50Speaker 03

  And within six months, I went from a fourth grade to an eighth grade education. I, you know, I did well on all my tests, with the exception of math. I was, I wasn't that great in math. I was more good in English and words. But I did it, and I, I left. And, but the crazy thing is-

• 9:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So you basically skipped four grades?

• 9:05Speaker 03

  Yes. Um, and, and it was hard, and I did it, though. I did it.

• 9:08Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right.

• 9:09Speaker 03

  But it made me who I am, so.

• 9:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, it's, I, I reflect often on the fact that, well, there's the saying, "That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger."

• 9:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And, also, people say, you know, "I had a messed up childhood. I wish it weren't messed up. I wish I had a regular childhood." And then, you run the clock back and give them a normal childhood, and there's a chance they wouldn't then become the creative, insightful person-

• 9:34Speaker 03

  I completely agree.

• 9:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  -that they were as an adult.

• 9:35Speaker 03

  I used to ask myself that all the time, you know? I'd be like, "Why would I, why would, why would I be in this position? God, or whatever, you, you know what I mean? Why would you put me here?"

• 9:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right.

• 9:45Speaker 03

  And it was to, it was to teach me a lesson. It was to make me stronger. And it was to give me the writing material that I needed, you know, as a, as a musician and as an emcee, to spread a positive message of light at the end of the tunnel. I truly believe that.

• 9:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Steve- Wow. Yo mama has a PhD in psychology. Yes, she does. Yo daddy has an MFA- Mm-hmm. Uh, Master in Fine Arts. That's right. So, he, he comes out- What's your origin story? You, you don't have enough tragedy, man. Where's your- You need some tragedy.

• 10:14Speaker 02

  So because my parents were educators, therefore I have no tragedy?

• 10:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, well, I- No, no, it's a question. Let's turn that into a question.

• 10:19Speaker 02

  So-

• 10:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so we hear a case-

• 10:21Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  -where he is reaching into this, in, into his life experience, growing up, as a, as a source-

• 10:29Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  -of his need to change the world through his creativity.

• 10:34Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, you are also doing this, but clearly it's a different background.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 10:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, where are you reaching to for this?

• 10:41Speaker 02

  So, for me-

• 10:44Speaker 02

  My use of hip-hop as a form of expression stems from growing up primarily in Johnstown, Pennsylvania. So it's a

• 10:52Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Rust Belt.

• 10:53Speaker 02

  Not only Rust Belt, but it's a hotbed of racism.

• 10:55Chuck Nice?

  I was about to say. When you said Johnstown, Pennsylvania.

• 10:59Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 10:59Chuck Nice?

  I don't know why.

• 11:00Speaker 02

  Right.

• 11:01Chuck Nice?

  But racism.

• 11:02Speaker 02

  So my parents were educators.

• 11:03Chuck Nice?

  Just popped into my head.

• 11:04Speaker 02

  Right, no question.

• 11:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  He's a Pennsylvanian.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  So my parents are educators, but they taught at the University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown.

• 11:11Chuck Nice?

  Oh, good.

• 11:12Speaker 02

  So I had to grow up in Johnstown, Pennsylvania.

• 11:14Chuck Nice?

  Well, there you go.

• 11:14Speaker 02

  Battling off racism. And so then I turned those physical fights I was constantly getting into into just shutting people down lyrically or verbally.

• 11:23Chuck Nice?

  Ooh.

• 11:23Speaker 02

  And yeah, so that's, I guess, where mine

• 11:26Chuck Nice?

  That's where you use words as weapons. And by the way, so now we know. See, because there has to be some type of pain to, I believe, and it doesn't have to be, you know, exactly what happened to Logic or, you know, it's just, which is really kind of weird, you know, like you got Jay-Z is just like, I'm Mossy Projects, you know, I grew up in Mossy Projects, 50 Cent. I was shot nine times, you know, and then Logic's just like, I was homeschooled, B, homeschooled. You know, that's, that's not as tough.

• 11:58Speaker 02

  Plus a lot of other issues that he had to deal with.

• 12:00Chuck Nice?

  Well, that, that's the bad part. That's the bad part.

• 12:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Issues of the Watson.

• 12:04Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 12:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Steve, so tell me about this, this legacy of violence and hip-hop. The two being associated with one another.

• 12:12Speaker 02

  Ooh. So I think that

• 12:14Chuck Nice?

  Well, you jump right into it.

• 12:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, just, just, yeah.

• 12:15Chuck Nice?

  Oh, man.

• 12:16Speaker 02

  Violence in rap music, uh,

• 12:19Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Not only violence surrounding rap events, but violence within the lives. The modern, wealthy lives of successful rap stars.

• 12:30Speaker 02

  So I think that whenever one is comparing violence and just negativity with hip-hop, a lot of the times what they're referring to is rap music, which is a facet of hip-hop culture. So In my opinion, if hip-hop was the human body, rap music is like the nervous system. It can be angry, it can be peaceful, it can be whatever the body is feeling at that moment. So rap music absolutely has negativity, has violence, it also has peace, love, and positivity. But at the end of the day, hip-hop as a culture was founded on peace, unity, love, and having fun.

• 13:10Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, and, and, and, and by the way,

• 13:14Chuck Nice?

  I think that there is some unfair attachment of violence specifically to hip-hop because violence is found in all music.

• 13:23Speaker 02

  Absolutely, and just in American culture, global culture.

• 13:26Chuck Nice?

  Right, you know, so it's, for some reason, there's something about hip-hop, I'm not sure what it is, that causes it to stand out, you know?

• 13:35Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Do you know Art Garfunkel, Simon and Garfunkel?

• 13:38Chuck Nice?

  Of course.

• 13:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  His first solo album, which is just ballads, basically?

• 13:41Chuck Nice?

  Was called "I'll Kill You Bleep."

• 13:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Wait, wait, wait.

• 13:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  One of the songs-

• 13:52Speaker 02

  It was right after "Bridge Over Troubled Water."

• 13:56Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  "I'll Kill You Bleep."

• 14:00Speaker 02

  Can't be synonymous.

• 14:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, so one of the songs in that album, the album's titled "Angel Claire", one of the songs is a beautiful ballad about this guy who lures his girlfriend to the water's edge, feeds her burgundy wine, and then stabs her to death, and then dumps her body in the river.

• 14:18Chuck Nice?

  I like my title better.

• 14:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's in there, but nobody would say violent, violent Art Garfunkel. But in there, and it's sung beautifully. You hear these beautiful words, and it's like, now, this time that I listen, let me pay attention to the lyrics. And then it's like, wow.

• 14:35Speaker 02

  So I mean, that's, that's-

• 14:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  "A bloody sight, I threw her body..." And a minute was like, oh my gosh, this is like a bloody murder.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  So I think that if you're, like, in the comparison of Art Garfunkel writing violent songs about killing a woman and just generic hip-hop violence in a song, I mean- At the end of the day, nobody like, it's all historic. So you think of black men who predominate hip-hop culture. And you think about how black men are perceived. You're going to think violence, anger, and the like. And so whenever you have black men. That's a good one, getting shot. And getting shot. So whenever you have black men talking about these experiences and talking about these realities, it's like, oh, well, that's what they are. And so you ha- and so it gets highlighted socially. And reinforced. As opposed to Art Garfunkel where it's like, oh, well, that's an anomaly.

• 15:28Speaker 02

  I couldn't imagine this curly-haired singing individual to go stab a woman by the river's edge. But. I don't know it. But you never know it, Art, because. His hair does look awfully like an Afro. Wow. I'm just saying. Wow.

• 15:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, tell me the difference. You addressed it, but let me hear it more, in a more dictionary definition style. The difference between hip-hop and rap.

• 15:52Speaker 02

  So Webster might say that hip-hop is a culture that embodies rapping, breakdancing, graffiti, DJing, and just a general knowledge and awareness of life. While rap music is an expression. It's just how you choose to express yourself. It can, I mean, there are hip-hop artists who might sing. Hip-hop is the culture where you can define yourself. So if you want to say, I'm a hip-hop singer, you're a hip-hop singer.

• 16:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 16:24Speaker 02

  But you gotta be able to rap to be a rapper. Absolutely.

• 16:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, there you go.

• 16:28Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 16:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 16:29Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 16:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You don't want to be a candy wrapper.

• 16:34Speaker 02

  Bars?

• 16:38Speaker 02

  What? Candy bars?

• 16:39Chuck Nice?

  You got me. You got me off card on that one.

• 16:42Speaker 02

  I'm telling you.

• 16:43Chuck Nice?

  You know, it works on so many levels though, you know?

• 16:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Logic's got a geek underbelly. This is the fun part on a StarTalk interview. You come into my office at the Hayden Plant Ham, and you got a geek underbelly, I'm gonna find it.

• 16:57Speaker 03

  Ah.

• 16:57Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah, so Logic, so Logic, he's got, he's got a love for space and science.

• 17:02Speaker 03

  Sweet.

• 17:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I know, let's check it out. So where comes your interest in space, or learning, or? Because it's infused throughout your persona.

• 17:14Speaker 03

  Completely. Honestly, I've always loved space, and I've always loved the idea of space travel, and time travel, and sci-fi, and, and, you know. And there's an artist named Kid Cudi, and Kid Cudi, his whole theme is always space. And I was like, damn, I really love space, I wish I could do space. And then I woke up one day and was like, Kid Cudi doesn't own space, I'm sure you won't mind if I, you know, if I poke my head in here a little bit. And I thought, man, what could I do? And obviously...

• 17:38Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Space is a big area. There's a lot of room there to fit people.

• 17:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's not Highlander, okay? There's not just one, okay? There's billions.

• 17:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right.

• 17:45Speaker 03

  And, and so I was like, man, I really want to do this. And I was actually extremely inspired. I went to, it all happened within the last two years. And I went to go see Interstellar by Christopher Nolan, who I know you've sat down with. And he's one of my favorite directors, him and Tarantino, which are kind of like, they're both like over here, but...

• 18:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, it's like, yeah.

• 18:03Speaker 03

  It's like Super Blood or like...

• 18:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What's wrong with you that you like them both at the same time?

• 18:06Speaker 03

  I'm just awesome. No, but yeah, so I saw, I saw this, I saw this film, and it really, really inspired me. So I remember watching it, and the biggest thing that I took away from it was the connection, just of, of human beings. I was like, oh wow, we're just so connected. I remember like being in the car. I literally have a, one of my lines on the album is about how...

• 18:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Which album?

• 18:29Speaker 03

  On The Incredible Truth.

• 18:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Incredible Truth.

• 18:31Speaker 03

  And, and you know, basically about how like, we're all connected, and I'm, you know, in a space station, I'm on another mission, but back on Earth, everybody bitching. And to me, that's a metaphor for like, when I saw that movie, I felt so connected to mankind and human beings. I'm like, wow, we're all so beautiful, and we're here together. And then I pull out my phone, and it's like I come back to Earth, and I go on Twitter, and somebody's like, your music sucks!

• 18:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Coming up, we'll explore more of the intersection of science, hip-hop, and creativity when StarTalk returns.

• 19:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  We're back on Startalk. I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson, your host. I'm with my co-host Chuck Nice. That's right. Chuck Whedon at ChuckNiceCom. That's correct, at ChuckNiceCom. You got it. And our special guest today is Steve Tyson. Yeah. AKA DJ Ear2Ear. Nice. And we're gonna find your work. It's on JustListen, right?

• 19:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, JustListenENT.com. J-U-S-L-I-S-T-E-N-E-N-T.

• 19:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So JustListenENT.com.

• 19:32Speaker 03

  And I'm on SoundCloud, Dr. Tyson.

• 19:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, Dr. Tyson. All right, we can find you. Excellent. So, he's here to help us sort of unpack the phenomenon that is logic. Who's a rapper and a person who's thought deeply about this interconnection, all right, between humanity and especially, for him, as a person of mixed heritage. And so, as he explores these ideas through his music and his creativity, let's check it out. So you said you were mixed heritage?

• 20:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, black and white.

• 20:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Black and white?

• 20:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, okay.

• 20:03Speaker 03

  I feel like I've seen a lot of things differently. Do you know what I mean? Like, kind of not being accepted by both races at one time, or accepted by one more than the other.

• 20:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You see things differently because other people require that of you.

• 20:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Otherwise, you're just there.

• 20:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right?

• 20:17Speaker 03

  But I like it. I think it also does give me a unique perspective on things, especially being black and white and in this country.

• 20:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In your music, does it allow you, or does it force you, to say, "I want to speak to more than one group"? Is that even possible?

• 20:31Speaker 03

  No, it's 100% possible, but I think as long as certain sects within that group actually care to listen to you. So there's, for example, there's some people who could look at my fair skin, which is almost transparent. I'm just kidding. But yeah, and say like, oh, you know, try to negate or just ignore the fact that there is African-American in my blood, which I think is ignorant. Because for me, a lot of it is culture. Like, even hip-hop in itself is culture. Music is culture. It's less about race, specifically, at least from what I've experienced, and it's more about culture. So like, being raised in a predominantly black household, but my mother was white, however, I'm the only bastard child, if you will, between my white mother and black father. And then, you know, my father has children on his end, and my mother has children on

• 21:16Speaker 03

  their end, but I'm the only one in between them. So for me, imagine being home and being in a black family, that's all you know, but then going to school and kids being like, "Oh, you're white," or "Look at this white boy," or blah blah. That can be very confusing. So I'm kind of glad that I overcame that, I guess. And I had to do the same within hip-hop.

• 21:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Because it could otherwise mess you up.

• 21:35Speaker 03

  No, it could totally mess you up. Because even with hip-hop, there was almost like reverse racism. Where people would be like, "Oh, you're not good because you look white." And then somebody would be like, "Oh, but he's black, though." And they'll be like, "Oh, he's cool, then."

• 21:46Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So hip-hop, okay.

• 21:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's right. But that doesn't even make sense. Like, that's so ignorant, you know what I mean? But those are the things, like, once you stop caring, that's a big deal. When you stop really, truly caring what other people think, or at least, at least the people that aren't important. The people who are ignorant and just make such just harsh statements and things like that. When you put that out of your mind, you become much more happier.

• 22:07Chuck Nice?

  Wow, so he's like even more different strokes. The white kid in the black family.

• 22:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's right. So, so Steve, what, do you agree with logic that it's not about race?

• 22:20Speaker 02

  Well, about hip-hop culture?

• 22:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, yeah, it's more about culture than about race.

• 22:22Speaker 02

  Absolutely. I mean, hip-hop was born of an amalgam of people of a variety of different racial backgrounds. But at the same time, it's been an expression of predominantly black and Latino, uh, underserved communities, primarily in the Bronx, which is where it came from.

• 22:39Chuck Nice?

  Right, yeah.

• 22:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, but if it's an amalgam, I mean, I don't want to like create a fight or anything here. If the hip-hop culture is inclusive and multiracial, as you've described, what accounts for the pushback of some hip-hop artist? Either Eminem, or I was thinking in particular Iggy Azalea. Here's a blond-haired woman shaking her butt, and she's from Australia. And so, what, if you're inclusive, why have pushback at all?

• 23:03Speaker 02

  So, I think that, uh, if you're bringing up an example like Iggy Azalea, that pushback comes whenever you think about cultural appropriation. Because she's from Australia, yet she did move to Miami, but then adopted a persona and a style that was very specifically Miami and was leaning heavily on Trina.

• 23:25Chuck Nice?

  So, and, and, and the other thing?

• 23:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So?

• 23:27Chuck Nice?

  No, because you can't, you can't in your song go, "Tell me who that, who that." And then after the song is over, it's like, "Get out, mate." Like, no, no, I'm sorry.

• 23:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You don't, you don't play that?

• 23:40Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, it just can't happen that way, okay?

• 23:44Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, alright, so it's multiracial and inclusive for people who are genuine in their, in the product that they are.

• 23:51Speaker 02

  Genuine is a defining word for it.

• 23:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Fine, fine, so that, that, that answers it, I got you there.

• 23:57Chuck Nice?

  Authenticity.

• 23:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Um, because, uh, this whole thing about race, I find so odd, because anytime anyone asks me, you know, "Well, what race are you?", and I say, "Uh, last I checked, I'm the human race." You got another question? And, to, to try to slice and dice people, I, I just don't find that to be productive. I know how you think of me, because I, I've been stopped by cops, I know how I'm seen in society, but as a living homo sapien in this world, I think we're the human race, and then, then move on from there.

• 24:27Speaker 02

  I think that, for, the, lot of the human race who are enlightened, identifying as a member of the human race is right on point, but I also think that whenever you consider what's going on currently in America, and you think of police relations in the black community, that identifying with your categorized race, uh, can also be empowering. So, for example, you're an astrophysicist, if you, instead of saying, or in addition to saying, "I'm a member of the human race," also said, "I am Afro-Caribbean, I am biracial, I'm Afro-Caribbean and Puerto Rican," that would also help to uplift many Puerto Ricans

• 25:09Speaker 02

  who live near Aracibo, or many Afro-Caribians who look at the stars.

• 25:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Aracibo's a major radio telescope.

• 25:14Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 25:15Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In the islands of Puerto Rico.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  And so, that could also be very empowering, too. So, there is empowerment in saying, "I'm a member of the human race, I'm beyond the construct of race," but at the same time, there's also power in saying, "I, if you want to talk about the construct of race, here's who I am, I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson, an Afro-Caribbean Puerto Rican astrophysicist."

• 25:35Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, wow.

• 25:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Mic drop on that one.

• 25:39Chuck Nice?

  There you go. Who knew that you were such a rare beast?

• 25:43Speaker 02

  He don't tell nobody, that's why.

• 25:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's not that I don't say it, it's that I have other priorities, and my priority is like getting people scientifically married.

• 25:53Chuck Nice?

  Right, right.

• 25:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So that the civilization will continue into the future. Thank you.

• 25:59Chuck Nice?

  Right. So, you know.

• 26:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Anyhow.

• 26:03Chuck Nice?

  West Science Story.

• 26:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So somewhere in the interview, we end up talking about the Rubik's Cube.

• 26:09Chuck Nice?

  A boy like that, he do experiments. Okay, I'm sorry.

• 26:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's like from West Side Story.

• 26:14Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, that's what I was doing, but it was West Science Story.

• 26:17Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh, oh, oh, I get it, I get it.

• 26:19Chuck Nice?

  For those who just found out that you're part Puerto Rican, that's all.

• 26:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  My mother's name is Chita Maria Feliciano Tyson.

• 26:26Chuck Nice?

  Yup.

• 26:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, that's how that played out.

• 26:27Chuck Nice?

  That's true.

• 26:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah.

• 26:29Chuck Nice?

  Look at me telling you that's true.

• 26:35Chuck Nice?

  It's because I met, only because I met your mom. I'm like, no, because you know, some people might think you're joking when you say that, you know?

• 26:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I think ultimately, everyone is African, because we all, the species came from Africa.

• 26:48Chuck Nice?

  Now, wait a minute. Now, just hold on one minute there. You ain't gonna come up in here and talk on old mist like that. You from, you from Johnstown? I'm a good Christian man, I'm a good Christian man, you ain't gonna come up in here and tell me about being from some old Africa.

• 27:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  A Christian man, Bible's written in English.

• 27:09Chuck Nice?

  That's right.

• 27:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Jesus spoke English.

• 27:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Anyhow, so, somehow, I don't, I forgot how the subject of the Rubik's Cube came up in my conversation with.

• 27:22Chuck Nice?

  You had one on your desk.

• 27:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Oh man, that could have been it, yeah, I have a, I have a, a Rubik's Cube that exists in a higher dimension than just the, the cube.

• 27:31Chuck Nice?

  Of course you would.

• 27:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I'm just saying.

• 27:33Chuck Nice?

  Of course. There's Rubik's to the fourth.

• 27:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  This one.

• 27:37Chuck Nice?

  He's the only one with a multi-dimensional.

• 27:42Chuck Nice?

  I'm sorry, if you do it wrong, you get sucked out of this dimension, never to be seen again.

• 27:53Chuck Nice?

  Exactly.

• 27:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Anyhow, so, we talked, we talked, we chatted about creativity and the Rubik's Cube, let's see what came out of that.

• 28:05Speaker 03

  I'm definitely, I will boast and say I'm probably the fastest rapping Rubik's Cube in the world.

• 28:12Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If not the only.

• 28:13Speaker 03

  If not the only. My best, my fastest time that I've ever done it in was 23 seconds when I was like obsessed. You can ask my wife. I would like, like just, we'd lay down and be watching movies and I'd just be cubing. She'd get really upset.

• 28:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  My fastest is 76 seconds.

• 28:29Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 28:30Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But that was, that was 25 years ago and I've never beaten that.

• 28:35Speaker 03

  When it was like invented?

• 28:39Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It was early in the day. It was early in the day when it was still kind of like a conversation piece. You know, what is that? What is it? Why does it do that? And lately, my old age, five minutes. I can't pull it.

• 28:52Speaker 03

  But it's also fun.

• 28:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So here's the distinction. I solved the Rubik's Cube after like 80 hours just messing with it.

• 29:01Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 29:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay. It's about 80 hours. I should have been doing 22 other things. Okay? I was in graduate school, right? Trying to get a PhD in astrophysics and I'm sitting there on the couch.

• 29:10Speaker 03

  Flexing on me.

• 29:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And there's like, "No, no, no, I'm just saying. I took me, took me..." And so, but I've never actually looked at algorithms for it.

• 29:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And I thought to myself, "Should I?" But then I'd be following instructions rather than figuring it out.

• 29:26Speaker 03

  Oh, thanks. Yeah, I just, I'm not that great, I guess.

• 29:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  What it tells me is if there are faster ways to do it, it means there are algorithms I've yet to discover.

• 29:33Speaker 03

  That's true. I mean, wow. But that's almost like with everything, right? You know, like what's the key to happiness or, you know, there's certain things we haven't discovered yet. Algorithms are the universe.

• 29:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right, right, right, right, right. And so the fun thing about being on the frontier of science is there is no answer already derived in the back of the book.

• 29:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You are on, you have a foot in what is known, a foot in what is unknown and you're, you're, it's like, it's like...

• 29:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, completely. But that's the best part. That's how I feel. So my next journey is going to be film. So I wrote this film that I plan to star in, which I know is very ambitious, but so was being a rapper, and I'm here. And that's what I want to do. And so I feel like with music, it's ever-growing, and there's so many different things that I can do, just like with the cube. There's different ways to solve it, or tricks, or things that you can do. But I'm pretty solid. Like, I know how to make an album. I know how to sell an album. It got me here right now, so... But now, I feel like with film and other forms of just expressing myself in writing, it's like that, in the dark. And I love that.

• 30:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, that's good. That means you're going places nobody's gone before.

• 30:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, trying to.

• 30:37Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Isn't that what that has to mean?

• 30:39Speaker 03

  I guess, I suppose so, yeah.

• 30:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, otherwise you just copy somebody's thing, and then you just cookie-cut it out. So would you be one who would like, look up the instructions and do the puzzle? Or would you try to solve it on your own?

• 30:51Speaker 03

  I've been a guesser the entire time, but after 32 years, I need some algorithms in my life.

• 30:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And how about you, Chuck?

• 30:59Chuck Nice?

  I just peeled the colors off and rearranged them, and...

• 31:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You solved it like that?

• 31:04Chuck Nice?

  I was like, there's your answer. That's your answer.

• 31:10Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  But puzzles are... I think people who are committed and love unsolved problems, I think are friends of puzzles. So would you say that any sort of creative person would just love puzzles in general? As a general thing?

• 31:25Speaker 03

  I mean, as far as being a rapper, definitely. I mean, the way that we put together words is very much like a puzzle.

• 31:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  It's a Rubik's Cube itself.

• 31:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  If you put this word here, some other word's gotta get bumped and make it work in another way.

• 31:38Speaker 03

  Absolutely. Or even the way that we DJ. And we'll find different segments of songs that match well with one another. You know, go crate digging to find that little sample or that little thing.

• 31:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's good.

• 31:48Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 31:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah. So there was a time... Were you with me when I was with Logic on Sway?

• 31:55Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. Wait, wait, wait. No, I was with you on Sway.

• 31:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, no, but I was with Logic once on Sway.

• 32:00Speaker 03

  Oh, I don't remember that.

• 32:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  At a different time.

• 32:02Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 32:02Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay. And they wanted him to spin a rap about something he invented in the moment while he was doing the Rubik's Cube. So he solved the Rubik's Cube while he was spinning.

• 32:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, I saw him do that on Power 105. Yeah, Big Boy. I saw him do that too, yeah.

• 32:18Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, that was crazy. Because I can't do that.

• 32:22Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So maybe there's like a kind of schizophrenia where you have whole parts of your brain devoted to that. You had something else doing something else.

• 32:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:28Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And you get, your brain does 10 different things.

• 32:30Speaker 02

  That's honestly how freestyling is. I was trying to explain this the other week. Uh, I was freestyling at my sister's graduation party. And I was asked, how do, how do you end up doing that? The only answer I could come up with was God, because

• 32:45Speaker 02

  you've, the words are coming out. You know what you're about to say next, but it's writing itself as it's coming out. I, it's almost like when Michael Jackson said he goes to climb trees and the songs just pour in, in the universe. It's very similar to that, in my experience.

• 33:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, so rather than credit your own intellect, you're saying it's God. Okay. Just, just, if you're choosing between the two.

• 33:08Chuck Nice?

  Like I said, this is a family thing. I'm not gonna get involved.

• 33:13Chuck Nice?

  I stay out of these family things.

• 33:14Speaker 02

  God gave me my intellect.

• 33:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, alright, alright, alright. So, uh, we also talk about Logic's, uh, hit album, The Incredible True Story. And sort of equal parts entertainment and nerd, right down to the core. So, ask them about it. Let's check it out.

• 33:31Speaker 03

  Now, this is the cool thing that I loved about creating this. Cause you can imagine that as a rapper, when I walk into Def Jam Records and go, "Oh yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and go make a, an album about space, inspired by anime." They're like, "What?", you know what I mean? But then I, you know, it went on to sell over 135,000 in the first week. And, you know, it was the number one rap album. I sold more than pop artists and some of the biggest rappers in the world off an album about space. And it's so crazy that I pulled it off, and here's how. Because the theme-

• 33:59Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Taking notes now.

• 34:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:00Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Here's how you sell 135,000 in a week. Go ahead.

• 34:04Speaker 03

  The theme of the album has nothing to do with the music. Now, this allowed me to just rap my ass off, make some really fun songs over some dope funky beats, but keep a, keep a concept within the skits, from the script that I wrote for the voice actors, to live in almost two separate dimensions with one, you know, kind of equal goal, which is to entertain and educate.

• 34:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So entertainment and education, that's not a weird combination of the two. But geek culture and hip-hop culture? When I think of that Venn diagram, I'm not thinking there's hardly any... He might be alone in the intersection of that.

• 34:40Speaker 02

  That's interesting. When I think of that Venn diagram, they overlap.

• 34:44Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, there's a very... Yeah, there's a very large overlap between the geek culture and hip-hop culture. For younger people, Neil.

• 34:53Speaker 02

  I would even say for older folks. So you think about Grandmaster Flash?

• 34:55Chuck Nice?

  I just messed with it.

• 34:56Speaker 02

  You think about Grandmaster Flash, right? There would be no turntable-ism as we know it without him being a science and tech geek.

• 35:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay.

• 35:05Speaker 02

  So he was exploring and everything.

• 35:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Dare I say, not enough people fully embrace that fact?

• 35:10Chuck Nice?

  Yeah. Well, you know, and you're right about... Now, there is a very important fact to just bring up because there is actually... There's kind of like a pushback against kids who want to portray that geek culture. You know, and I think it's because the other kids are stupid and jealous.

• 35:33Chuck Nice?

  I'm sorry.

• 35:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Thanks for that analysis.

• 35:34Chuck Nice?

  I'm sorry. I just got, you know...

• 35:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Psychological analysis.

• 35:40Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  More on the intersection of hip-hop, creativity, and science when StarTalk continues.

• 35:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome back to StarTalk. Neil deGrasse Tyson here. Co-host Chuck Nice, special guest Steve Tyson. Hip-hop artist, DJ, PhD student. You're totally...

• 36:05Speaker 02

  Covering all bases.

• 36:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Covering all bases there. That's how you do it. So in this episode of StarTalk, we're featuring my interview with Logic and his 2017 album, "Everybody." It hit number one on the Billboard 200 list. So fans of Logic may know that I made sort of a cameo appearance on his album as God.

• 36:31Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 36:32Chuck Nice?

  You were Morgan Freeman?

• 36:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  No, no.

• 36:36Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's how good Morgan Freeman was as God. People not even say, "Oh, you were God? Like Morgan Freeman?" No, you were Morgan Freeman? That's even more impressive than being God. Yeah, yeah, it was God. And in this next clip, you'll hear the moment where I was actually officially asked to do just that. Let's check it out.

• 36:53Speaker 03

  Cool. Let's put it this way. I'm inviting you to play God. The role of God on my album.

• 37:04Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Is it just the voice of God you need?

• 37:05Speaker 03

  It's the voice of God.

• 37:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, so I joke about this, that we go to planetary director school, where you learn how to get your the voice, the planet. Welcome to the universe.

• 37:16Speaker 03

  Yo, it's like that. Like, it's crazy. You don't understand. So, like, I'm gonna tell you this, I'm gonna tell you this.

• 37:21Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The voice, it's gotta come from down here.

• 37:23Speaker 03

  I'm gonna tell you really quick, okay?

• 37:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Try, try. Welcome to the universe.

• 37:27Speaker 03

  Welcome to the universe.

• 37:29Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's good, that's good. That, that's good.

• 37:32Speaker 03

  It's not as good as Neil, but it's alright.

• 37:34Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Welcome.

• 37:36Speaker 03

  But it's, it's, um, it's about, it's about God and this, uh, and it's about this gentleman named Adam. And it's about how we're all connected. And it's about reincarnation, it's about religion, it's about science, it's about all these things, and how they, they play a role, and how we're all connected. And how this person, Adam, was actually, and I name him Adam because of the first man.

• 37:58Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I figured that out.

• 37:59Speaker 03

  Every, he's like, yeah, I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson, bitch!

• 38:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I got that one.

• 38:02Speaker 03

  No, yeah, but, so, it's, uh...

• 38:05Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  God is talking to a man named Adam. I mean, Adam after the first human, okay?

• 38:09Speaker 03

  But he's, but he's every, um, human being that has ever existed, both man, woman, whatever. So, we'll talk about it another time, but I will say that the role is yours, and it's, I think it's very special. I think people will enjoy it.

• 38:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, if I aspire to be

• 38:22Speaker 03

  God.

• 38:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Morgan Freeman.

• 38:23Speaker 03

  Oh, I know.

• 38:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  With my voice. That's one, I don't have on my resume yet. To be, to be the voice of God. To be God. Well, he was in God, he was in-

• 38:31Speaker 03

  He was God, Bruce Almighty.

• 38:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, and Evan Almighty, and then Bruce Almighty, right.

• 38:36Speaker 03

  I think that'd be funny. But, we'll see. If I, I know you're a very busy man.

• 38:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, I have a soft spot for artists who reach out to me to add science to their creativity. I'm there every time, just because it's the mainstreaming of science when artists touch it. And want to sort of make it their own. And of course, it's worked both ways, it turns out. I'm glad I have somebody in the fam who came to my defense when a rapper, a rapper dissed me for saying that, for getting on his case about saying Earth was flat. So we live in a time where you get attacked for attacking someone who says Earth is flat. But he's a rapper, I can't just say, "You're wrong." I gotta like rap back at him. Or somehow, so I said, "How am I gonna do this?"

• 39:23Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so, I combed the, I said, "Steve, can you help me out here?" And you did. Yeah. You did. On the spot. Flat to fact. Flat to fact, overnight. In a few hours, yeah. Yeah, he spun this in a few hours, I posted it, and I said, "Damn, there you go." Right. So thanks, Steve, for coming to Uncle's rescue. I tried.

• 39:44Chuck Nice?

  And suck it, B O B.

• 39:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  The point was, B O B was on the internet saying Earth is flat and saying he's invoking physics to show it. Now, the moment he said that, that call.

• 39:59Chuck Nice?

  That was, he slapped you across the face with a white glove.

• 40:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  That's it.

• 40:03Chuck Nice?

  Are you kidding me?

• 40:06Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Pistols at dawn.

• 40:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And I'm his shooter. Right, because if he didn't say, "I invoke physics," I wouldn't even care. Let him think it's a free country, think what you want. But you go evoke physics, then I'm gonna be all up in your situation, which I was. But then, but then, that wasn't enough, I needed the rap to back it up, and so there it was. Sweet. There it was, so. So Logic is not old, I mean, I think of him as like a kid, but he's seen a lot of life. I mean, he's, and so I asked him about what it took to become a good rapper, because he's been rapping most of his life, let's check it out.

• 40:44Speaker 03

  I think mistakes are great. A lot of people can see like failure is something that's negative, but it's like...

• 40:48Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They've not been properly trained.

• 40:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, no.

• 40:51Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  They don't understand what creativity actually is.

• 40:53Speaker 03

  I've been, I can't tell you how many times I've been in, you know, in the recording booth, trying to rap a verse really fast, you know what I mean? And like, because I have different ones that I could do, like, "Oh, I'm ripping and living and striving. The killer, the ripper, he's calling, would goes when he flows," just fun slang. And like, trying to get it and trying to get it, and then, "I'm ripping and living and striving, the killer, the ripper, he's calling, would go and to flow, you know, he pursuing and doing and moving and grooving and stopping, if I could talk and walk and flip it." So it's like, it's like, but, but it's took, took me years to be able to do that. But at first, I would stumble and fall and get angry, and I'd be like, "Oh, my God, why can't I do this?" And now, I'm known as like, someone with good pronunciation and...

• 41:27Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Clearly!

• 41:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, but, you know, and it, but it all comes, it's all wired, I think.

• 41:33Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So Steve, we need brain scans, brain scans of rappers, just like you said, you're pulling parts, it's getting woven as it comes out of your mouth, with powers beyond your awareness.

• 41:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, FMRI's would be good, functional magnetic resonance imagery.

• 41:49Speaker 03

  Absolutely, absolutely.

• 41:50Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Would be really good, functional where, because regular MRI, you're just...

• 41:52Speaker 03

  Right.

• 41:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You're just...

• 41:54Speaker 03

  In that little tooth.

• 41:55Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So, functional MRI is where you're actually doing something active, you're monitoring your brain in real time as that happens. So, it's gotta be fascinating to see one of those for a very active producing rapper.

• 42:07Speaker 03

  No question. We can go to Mount Sinai right now and get it done.

• 42:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  And so, so let me ask you, can you learn to do this? Or do you think it's something that's deep in you, that you're reaching for, that's always there?

• 42:19Speaker 03

  As far as freestyle?

• 42:20Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, freestyling.

• 42:21Speaker 03

  I think that it's two-part, so...

• 42:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Just to be clear, freestyling is, you're just pulling out of your...

• 42:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, you're just...

• 42:29Speaker 03

  Out of your head, really.

• 42:31Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  For some people, it's the same thing, but I don't know.

• 42:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, for some rappers, they might be, yeah, some rappers might be pulling it from somewhere else, but, um, I don't even remember what the question was, so...

• 42:40Chuck Nice?

  Can you learn it, or is it really something that...

• 42:42Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, can you learn how to freestyle, or is it...

• 42:43Chuck Nice?

  Or is it something you have, and then you perfect it?

• 42:45Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 42:46Speaker 03

  I think that freestyling is twofold. I think that not only is it something that you might have an inclination for naturally, but in order to actually be good and to continue to be, you know, known as a freestyler, you've gotta practice.

• 43:01Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You gotta work it.

• 43:02Speaker 03

  Repetition's the father of learning.

• 43:03Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  You gotta work, you gotta work it. Well, we've, as you know, we've featuring my interview with Logic, and in this last clip... He tells us about the importance of following our dreams.

• 43:12Chuck Nice?

  Oh.

• 43:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So let's see how that goes.

• 43:16Speaker 03

  My whole message is peace, love, positivity, follow your dreams, think it and it will happen. Truly the law of attraction, you know, living it, breathing it, saying it. Like, cause I always tell people all the time, like, you know, I, I meet so many people, I say, hey, what, what's your dream? What would you do? If you could do anything, what would it be? So people go, oh, well, I'd travel, but you can't do that. Well, yes, you can. You could, you, there's a million reasons that you could travel the world and do what you love. And they, well, I would, but, and they, that's it, right there. As soon as you say, but, game over, you ruined it. You know what I mean?

• 43:43Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  As Pee Wee Herman once said, "Everyone has a big butt."

• 43:47Speaker 03

  Everyone does have a big butt.

• 43:49Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  I would have done it, but, I don't know, but, yeah.

• 43:52Speaker 03

  You gotta do it.

• 43:53Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Anytime there's a but in somebody's sentence, there's some excuse coming down the line.

• 43:56Speaker 03

  I mean, there, there does need to be realism, cause I was like, I wanna be a rapper. But the difference wasn't like, oh yeah, I just want women and, and money and like, no. Like, when you think about it, that, that's completely, I looked at it, you know, uh, the key to success to me is just, you know, determination, persistence, realism, wanting success more than your next breath. But a big part of that is realism. You know, I tell people all the time, you can do anything you want. You can be a rapper, singer, actor, dancer, you can be a doctor, a lawyer, the best mother in the world, the best father in the world. You can do it because you're special, but you have to believe in it. But the, that realism factor is a big thing, though. You can't just go, oh, I'm gonna do this.

• 44:26Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Right. It's a reality check.

• 44:28Speaker 03

  Completely. Like even, like, you know, this is a business. Even what you do is a business. And when you, when you look at it, you go, okay, this is what I have to do in order to attain this. But once I attain it, I can do it how I want. You know what I mean? So, like, for a long time, for many years, I was actually talking to my wife about, a lot of people about this. I've been literally going non-stop. I've never had a vacation, I've never had a break, because I-

• 44:47Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Well, if you love what you do, what you do is the vacation.

• 44:49Speaker 03

  Yes, but, sometimes you need a vacation for the vacation. You know what I'm saying? Like, I, like, literally, I got married and jumped on a tour bus to go promote my album. But, I believe, man, if you, if you, like, if one thing, that if people are listening to this or watching this, anything could take away from it, it is do what you love. Please do what you love. Please do what you love. Cause, I'll tell you, man, like, if it wasn't for music, if it wasn't for me just taking that leap, I would either be selling drugs, doing drugs, in jail, whatever. That's what my whole family, their line was. You know what I mean? And I'm so blessed to be here. This is kinda surreal, though. This is crazy.

• 45:25Chuck Nice?

  He says, "Do what you love." Suppose you love selling drugs.

• 45:32Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Okay, I think that wasn't the idea of the thing. That wasn't it? That was not where that was supposed to go. I missed the bus on that one. Okay, my interpretation is do what you love and you will never work a day in your life. That's cool.

• 45:44Speaker 02

  Man, I mean, I think that, you know, with hip-hop culture, hip-hop culture was defined on you can do anything. It was created as something from nothing. Everybody...

• 45:54Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Definitely from nothing.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  No question. And that mindset of you can do anything led hip-hop to be what is currently the most financially influential as well as culturally influential, um...

• 46:11Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Art form.

• 46:12Speaker 02

  Art form on the planet.

• 46:13Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  On the planet, yes. Absolutely.

• 46:15Speaker 02

  So you could do anything.

• 46:16Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  In the 1970s, when I heard the first rap song that made the charts, which was, um, the Sugar Hill Gang.

• 46:23Speaker 02

  Mm, Rapper's Delight.

• 46:24Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Rapper's Delight. And we, it blew our minds. I remember in college, we were just dancing and singing and sweating to it. But I said, oh, this is a flash in the pan. It's kind of cute, just somebody just reciting words that rhymed. Uh, it's disco that will really last.

• 46:41Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  So don't ever try to get me to predict the future. Okay? If you ask me in 30 years, where, you know, what would we, what would it be? Like, no, no. That's great. All right, you've been listening to StarTalk Radio. I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson. Chuck Nice, always good to have you. My pleasure. Steve Tyson Jr., nephew dude. Uh, you can find him, just listen ent.

• 47:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, just listen ent.com, but I'm also on SoundCloud.

• 47:07Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  All right, thanks for being here.

• 47:08Speaker 02

  Appreciate it.

• 47:09Neil deGrasse Tyson?

  Uh, Neil deGrasse Tyson, signing off as always. I bid you.