#342 - Physicist Quits NASA After Discovering Truth of The Universe | Thomas Campbell

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Thomas Campbell is a physicist, author, and consciousness researcher best known for his trilogy My Big TOE (Theory of Everything). https://my-big-toe.com SPONSORS https://www.amentara.com/go/dj - Use code DJ22 for 22% off your first order. https://stopboxusa.com/danny - Use code DANNY & save 15% off StopBox. https://cornbreadhemp.com/danny - Use code DANNY for 30% off. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off EPISODE LINKS https://my-big-toe.com FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Working for NASA & the Star Wars program 08:37 - NASA's lost knowledge 12:16 - Bob Monroe & consciousness research 20:01 - Why rocket scientists embrace parapsychology 26:18 - Tom's theory of consciousness 37:09 - We live in a computed reality 48:06 - How consciousness is evolving 56:38 - Visiting other realities (without drugs) 01:05:53 - We all share one consciousness 01:13:30 - Chris Bledsoe's healing abilities & alien orbs 01:23:45 - How to level up your consciousness 01:34:30 - Blind people learn to see without eyes 01:45:39 - Mind-to-mind connection & communication 01:55:04 - History of the evolution of human consciousness 02:04:15 - When our shared consciousness "woke up" 02:12:43 - How consciousness can heal the body 02:19:17 - "Aliens" are a symptom of consciousness 02:32:16 - The consciousness system = "God" 02:43:24 - Remote viewing death & the afterlife 02:54:20 - Tom's AI guy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:44Danny Jones?

  You worked in missile defense at NASA, is that correct?

• 1:47Speaker 02

  No, those are two separate things. I worked in missile defense for what initially was called Star Wars, which turned into Ballistic Missile Defense Initiative. And then later, I worked with NASA.

• 2:05Danny Jones?

  Okay, so how did you get into working with Star Wars?

• 2:09Speaker 02

  It was a job and I worked in a I um what's called a CETA. S E T A is systems engineering and technical um work that we were the technical brains of the of the government, that sort of thing. The government manages the money and then they hire in technical experts to to kind of manage the the technology or to do the technology. So I went there for a for a job working in the that was back in the um middle eighties, nineteen eighties.

• 2:46Danny Jones?

  Is that Reagan?

• 2:48Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, I think it started with Reagan.

• 2:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah. And then how did you transition from the Star Wars stuff to NASA?

• 2:58Speaker 02

  Well,

• 3:01Speaker 02

  I worked um for about fifteen years in the uh Star Wars arena.

• 3:07Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:08Speaker 02

  And then I wanted to homeschool my children and my son was begging me to uh break him out of jail in school. So

• 3:20Danny Jones?

  How old?

• 3:21Speaker 02

  He was probably

• 3:25Speaker 02

  hmm maybe twelve, thirteen, something like that. Very bright boy and he was just bored to death in school and didn't particularly like all the rules. It didn't make any sense to him and so on like boys tend to be. And uh so I went and talked with his teachers and talked with the school and came to the conclusion that he was right. He needed to be broken out of that particular jail. So I uh retired and started homeschooling my kids and became a consultant. And that was really the best thing I'd done. I wished I'd done that earlier. It was great because I halved my hours. I only worked twenty hours a week, but I doubled my rate because consultants

• 4:09Speaker 02

  cost more than regular workers. So the finances were the same. I only was working twenty hours a week. So I'd do that two ten hour days. So I had two, two days at work and five days off. And the two days I was at work, the kids just had to get along.

• 4:27Speaker 02

  But if they didn't, they called their mom, they didn't call their dad. So anyway, so then as a consultant, I did different jobs. Consulting is wonderful because you only get the most interesting jobs. Because if the people could do it in-house, and these are technical companies, if they could do it in-house, they'd do it in-house because it'd be cheaper. So it's only problems that they can't solve themselves that they pull people in. That can solve the problem, which means you get to do all the fun work and you don't have to go to staff meetings.

• 5:02Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  Any of the junk that, you know, is not a whole lot of fun. So that was a good thing. And one of the, one of the businesses that I worked for was NASA. So I worked for them for a couple of years until the task that I had was done. After that, not too long after that, I took maybe two or three other jobs that were short, and then I retired the first time.

• 5:27Danny Jones?

  So what kind of services were you providing NASA?

• 5:30Speaker 02

  Well, NASA needed someone to, to help them with modeling. What I did is I made big physics models of large systems. And then you could tell how that system would behave or what it would do without having to actually build it and spend a whole lot of money. So I was building up systems in, in the computer. And the problem NASA had that they hired me for was one of understanding what the risks were in a system, doing risk analysis. And there was probably a half a dozen tasks, different risk analysis tasks that were on, and I got handed one. Which was probably one of the most fun things that I had done, and that was bird strike.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  When you have a, a missile that goes off, a missile, a rocket. I was working on the, the update to the shuttle, I think it was called Ares One. And. Before they get out of the atmosphere, they're high, but they're not so high that birds aren't a problem. They're going like Mach one and a half. You have a collision with a four pound bird going Mach one and a half and that's more energy than you'd get from a cannonball. So it's a really serious problem. As I recall, it was like, you know, seven million pounds of force or something. Yeah, you know, in in physics, it's relative, which one's going fast.

• 6:58Speaker 02

  If you're, if the target, if the missile's going real fast and the bird's stationary, it doesn't matter. Whether you had a stationary rocket and a bird going, you know, Mach one and a half, it all is the same. It's all the same. So that was a problem. And one of the things they asked me to do is make a model of that. Make a computer model and tell them what the risk was of hitting a bird and how they could mitigate the risk. And I thought that was wonderful because it was a really hard problem with hundreds of variables that you had to work.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  And one of the first things I had to tell them was how many, uh, up to the, up to the time of when I was doing this, there had been something like six or seven launches that had just failed catastrophically and they had no reason why. All the telemetry they got said everything was working fine, but they just ended. So they didn't tell me that. That was what they told me after I did the work, but they asked me to compute.

• 8:06Speaker 02

  Given all the launches they had had at that time, how many, what was the probability of how many of them would have hit a bird? And I gave them the exact number of the number of launches that had disappeared without them knowing why. So the model was a good model. It took me about two years to put that model together. And it was a lot of fun because it was something that was totally new. No, nobody had done that before because it was a hard problem and I had to learn a whole lot of new things like. What birds fly.

• 8:37Danny Jones?

  Migration patterns.

• 8:39Speaker 02

  And migration patterns and where they go and what times of year and how many, you know, travel together and what the probabilities were.

• 8:47Danny Jones?

  Oh, what a shitty day that would be. Imagine being a bird migrating from South America across, across Florida, Cape Canaveral, and you just get nuked out of the sky by a missile.

• 8:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it's, it was pretty catastrophic when that happens because there's a lot of energy transferred. But, you know, I had to do the whole thing, you know, the, the friction, what it hit, where it hit made a lot of difference. There's all kinds of things stuck onto those rockets. They're not like the fast missiles that we talk about in strategic defense. These are big, heavy lift things with big payloads. So they have all kinds of, of things on them and it depends on what the bird hits. And all of that is probability, you know, so it was just a huge probability problem with a lot of understanding of the kinematics between a, a bird and a rocket.

• 9:40Speaker 02

  You know, going Mach one and what it could hit and where it would slide and how long would it be before it's integrated? And what would the bones do as opposed to the flesh? A big physics problem, but I put that together and like I say, that was a fun job because it was so different than anything that I'd ever, had ever done before.

• 10:02Danny Jones?

  Hmm. And how long did you end up doing that for? Just a couple of years?

• 10:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, it took a couple of years to do that and I wrote it all up. Got some accommodations for that because it, they were having problem at NASA in that time. Because they had just gone through a, a funding decrease, which is a political thing. And the way the management solved that funding decrease was to give all of the senior people early outs for retirement. And I think it was like a 25 or 35,000 dollar bonus for retiring early. And losing nothing by retiring early, you know, so if they had to make 30 years to retire

• 10:45Speaker 02

  and they only had 25, they'd give them the five years, pay them $30,000 and let them retire.

• 10:52Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 10:52Speaker 02

  So what happened was they lost all the corporate knowledge that they had, not all of it, but probably a big chunk of it. Probably about sixty percent of the corporate knowledge walked out the door in the same year. That was not very smart, but

• 11:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  That's what happened and, and they had a lot of young guys there who really didn't know what to do or how to do it. So I walked in with my, with my beard and they said, ah, great, a gray beard. That's just what we need. We need somebody that's old enough to know what's going on here.

• 11:24Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 11:25Speaker 02

  So anyway, that was.

• 11:27Danny Jones?

  Lots of fishy stuff they let walk out the door at NASA, you know, and how they accidentally lost or deleted all of the data and all of the technology from the Apollo programs. Seems so silly.

• 11:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:40Danny Jones?

  Such a, such a big organization that responsible for some of the most incredible achievements in human history.

• 11:47Speaker 02

  Yes, I would agree with that. Yeah. Getting rid of all the, of all your senior people, you know, all in the same year just seemed like a, just a crazy idea to save money. You save money, but you gutted the organization and it's not surprising that they, uh, lost things and kinda didn't know what they were doing for a decade. Then they, they changed altogether and said NASA no longer designs. Now the designs outsourced. So NASA became the managers of the program, not the actual designers of the program. And that was a big change. Before all the work was done in-house at NASA, all the basic

• 12:29Speaker 02

  physics and design work, it was shipped out to industry to actually build. NASA didn't build the materials, but they did design and now I don't think they do much design at all.

• 12:40Danny Jones?

  And now SpaceX doing all that.

• 12:41Speaker 02

  They manage the money. Yeah. So it's all gone to the private sector.

• 12:44Danny Jones?

  It's crazy how many SpaceX rockets launch over in Cape Canaveral all the time. Just random days, like you'd never know, like a random, a random Tuesday, they could be launching a missile and you would have no idea what, what are they launching? What are they doing? What are they sending up into space? It's crazy.

• 12:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, it's a big demand, you know, the communications these days have everything to do with satellites.

• 13:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah, and there's like, we calculate, we found out this number before Steve, but there's like something, I want to say it's like thirty thousand satellites are rotating around the earth right now.

• 13:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know whether that's a good number or not, but there are, there are a lot.

• 13:24Danny Jones?

  It, it looks like a, a ball, like the planet with like mosquitoes just circling around it. It's looks crazy in the, at least in the animations that I've seen.

• 13:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Oh, there it is. Eleven thousand. I was close.

• 13:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:40Danny Jones?

  One third of what I thought it was.

• 13:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:43Danny Jones?

  Um, and then how did you get from doing this stuff to getting involved with parapsychology and the Monroe Institute and Robert Monroe?

• 13:53Speaker 02

  Well, actually, my career in physics and my career in, in consciousness research, both started at the same time. When I got out of graduate school, I went to work for, actually, it was Army Technical Intelligence, and that's where I started doing big computer models of complex systems, which kind of became my forte. And there, my boss tossed me journeys out of the body. He said, Tom, read this and tell me what you think about it. So, you know, when your boss tells you to read this, you do it. I did it. And I

• 14:33Speaker 02

  told him, I said, well, if this is legitimate and this is true, then that's, that's really amazing. If it's, if it's not, and the guy's just got a good imagination, well, you know, he's just trying to sell books, that would not be so amazing. So, my boss found out that Bob Monroe didn't live that far away. And that was in Charlottesville, Virginia.

• 15:00Speaker 02

  So we made an appointment. We went out, we, two carloads full of people, but ten of us, we went out to meet Bob Monroe. And Bob Monroe, this was now nineteen seventy-one, seventy-two, early seventies. So, yeah, I'm a lot older than I look.

• 15:21Speaker 02

  So we met Bob and he had just built a lab for studying consciousness. It was just an empty building. And he said, I'm looking for some scientists to help me study consciousness in the lab. So I volunteered and a friend of mine, Dennis Mennerick, volunteered. And about three weeks after that, we started going out to the lab and we were still doing that seven to eight years later. So I spent probably fifteen to twenty hours a week with Bob Monroe.

• 15:53Speaker 02

  For about seven and a half years.

• 15:55Danny Jones?

  Doing what? What kind of stuff were you doing?

• 15:57Speaker 02

  Well, first off, he taught us how to go out of body. That was the first thing because we didn't want to study consciousness from outside. We needed to study it from inside. So he taught us, you know, out of body. And that didn't take too long. We learned that to where we could go out of body on demand and when we wanted to and kind of reproduce the same states. And we then needed to convince ourselves that it was real. You know, I'm a physicist, Dennis is an electrical engineer, and we were not easy to come to the conclusion that it wasn't some kind of mind game. So we did things that were evidential, like remote viewing. You either get it right or you get it wrong. Evidential, we did healing,

• 16:42Speaker 02

  we did communications, mind to mind, everything we could think of that you could then check to see whether you were actually getting the right answers or whether you weren't. So we did that for, for years. And I was the physicist, so my job was to come up with the theory. How did it work? Why did it work that way? What were its limitations? What could you do? What couldn't you do? So I kind of... wandered off in that space and Dennis helped build equipment and if you go to the Monroe Institute and this was before there was such a thing as the Monroe Institute.

• 17:22Speaker 02

  That was Monroe Institute actually happened because of some of the work that Dennis and I did there. So anyway, after the seven to eight years, I left town to go to Huntsville, which is called Rocket City. That's where all the missile defense program is done. It's where all the engineering is done. Every aerospace company as you've ever heard of has an office in Huntsville.

• 17:51Danny Jones?

  Huntsville.

• 17:52Speaker 02

  Alabama.

• 17:53Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 17:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a, it's one of those tech cities that it's very, you know, if you go to Huntsville, you will hardly ever find somebody speaking in the southern drawl. Most everybody's has come from someplace else. It's a, a lot of, actually the, this Chamber of Commerce there claims that there's more PhDs per capita in Huntsville than any other place on the planet, but I don't know whether that's true or whether that's hype.

• 18:24Danny Jones?

  How long has it been like that?

• 18:26Speaker 02

  Um, well, it started with Von Braun. Von Braun, when they picked up the, the rocket scientists in Germany at the end of World War II, those rocket scientists went to Huntsville. So that was where the, that's where the.

• 18:41Danny Jones?

  The paperclip scientists were based in Huntsville?

• 18:44Speaker 02

  Paperclip scientists?

• 18:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah, the operation, Operation Paperclip where they brought all the Nazis back to the US. The top Nazi scientists.

• 18:51Speaker 02

  Went to Huntsville.

• 18:52Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 18:52Speaker 02

  When that, when that mission to the moon, when that, that went out of Marshall Space Flight Center. That's in Huntsville. So Huntsville was the first big missile center that was the base. All of our missile work is done there. And in the tactical arena, the army does all its tactical missiles, you know, like TOE and other sorts of tactical things are all done. Most of the engineering and design is done in Huntsville. So it's a big tech center full of mathematicians and scientists and engineers.

• 19:24Danny Jones?

  Wow, I didn't know that.

• 19:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's a, it's one of those tech centers and it's, it's nice actually to, to be there because it's a, it's like an oasis of.

• 19:39Speaker 02

  I don't know, I was gonna say smart people, but it's, it's got a lot to, you know, it's got a lot to recommend it because to support all those people, then there's an infrastructure that grows up around it to support. So, you know, it's got a big, massive civic center and we get off Broadway plays and it's a pretty good cultural center as well.

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• 21:43Danny Jones?

  Rocket scientists, high level rocket scientists, who are so much into this parapsychology, esoteric, esoteric stuff, like, like, uh, remote viewing and UFOs and, and psionics, things like this. And it seems so strange to me that, that people at such a high level in companies like SpaceX or NASA, would be into this stuff, which seems like woo woo to the, to the normal, everyday person who's not kind of initiated in it. What do you make of that?

• 22:22Speaker 02

  Well, there's probably a good reason for that. And that is, if you are in a very highly technical field, you tend to live your life with two aspects. One, you have to have an open mind because if you're doing research, if you're doing things that are kind of on the leading edge, you can't be closed minded, or you'll never do anything more than what's already been done. You have to have an open mind that is able to go places nobody's gone before, to copy a line out of Star Trek. Uh, anyway, so you have to be open minded and you have to be very, uh, logical and rational. And as things come to your attention,

• 23:08Speaker 02

  you don't tend to say, well, that sounds like nonsense. You tend to say, hmm, where are the facts? You know, so you're, you're open. And because you're inquisitive, or you wouldn't be in that field, you have to have an inquisitive mind to be there. You start looking for the facts. Oh, that's very interesting. You know, what's the support? So they start digging into it and, and uh, they find that in general, that there's, there's a lot there. It's not just, you know, oh, let's just throw that away because it doesn't fit with our belief in physical, you know, reality. Let's, uh, let's see what's there. So that's a mind that's inquiring, a mind that's open, a mind that, uh, is looking for.

• 23:53Speaker 02

  Facts, answers, that sort of thing. So I think that's, that's kind of natural. The people that have that open minded, but also drive to, drive to understand the unknown. Well, that's just another part of the unknown. So they kind of embrace that more easily perhaps than, than just the average person in the street. Who doesn't really have that attitude of let's go find out. Let's, let's read, let's talk to people. So I found that too, that many of the people that are in the more esoteric mind space do tend to be science, you know, engineering, people that are.

• 24:38Danny Jones?

  Very smart people.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  Yes, people who are, are smart people.

• 24:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah. And, and you know, when you, referring to like the everyday people who don't talk or don't have an open mind or don't, a lot of, a lot of these people who aren't familiar with this stuff or aren't initiated in it, they, it's not like they aren't open minded or they wouldn't be interested in, in the right scenario. But a lot of them are just, they're too busy with the everyday, their everyday lives and mundane responsibilities of a nine to five, living paycheck to paycheck, that kind of stuff. When you, when you live like that, you don't have the luxury to read and talk to tons of interesting people and investigate this type of stuff, you know, most people are stuck in this, this crazy nine to five rat race, which is unfortunate.

• 25:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that's true. When I was going out to, at that time it was at Whistlefield Farms. That's where Bob's lived, Bob lived and I was going out there at like six, seven o'clock at night after dinner. Pick up Dennis on my motorcycle, we'd, we'd go out. We'd probably work at the lab until 10 or 11. Bob would invite us down to his house. We'd stay down there and chat and talk with him about where we were going and what we were doing and. That would last until midnight, one o'clock in the morning, two o'clock in the morning sometimes. And I'd drive home and I'd get home, you know, one, two, three in the morning.

• 26:05Speaker 02

  And I'd practice all the things that I'd just done that evening before at the lab. Cause when we got to the lab, we'd do work on equipment and that sort of thing. And then we'd get in the booths and we'd start going places and doing things.

• 26:17Danny Jones?

  In the booths?

• 26:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Bob had in this place, he had three acoustically isolated booths. That's soundproof booth and the one I, I got in the first one, there was the one between us and Dennis got in the last one. And mine also was a Faraday cage. It has, it was sheet metal welded all the way around on all sides. So.

• 26:39Danny Jones?

  So no signals can get in or out?

• 26:41Speaker 02

  No electromagnetic signals could get in or out, no acoustic signals either because they were acoustically isolated. So they, if Dennis or I screamed as loud as we could, we might've heard a little muffled something in the background. But you know, it was, it was very isolated. So his wasn't a Faraday cage, mine was, and Bob just made it that way to, so that he could test it. So we'd go get in the booths and Bob would get in the control room and then we'd spend the next two or three hours out of body, doing things, talking to people, going places, reporting to him what we were seeing. The way that worked is that he trained us to speak while we were out.

• 27:23Speaker 02

  So we'd have this microphone hanging from the ceiling, about an inch from our lips. And we would tell him what we were experiencing and what was going on. So it's a little parallel processing there. Dennis parallel processed and would speak as he experienced. I would experience come back and speak, go back and experience, come back and speak. I tended to go back and forth was easier for me than to do that, so.

• 27:49Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 27:50Speaker 02

  That was the way we, that's the way we worked.

• 27:55Danny Jones?

  And how did this all lead to your big theory of everything?

• 27:58Speaker 02

  Well.

• 27:59Danny Jones?

  How long did that take before you started to started like that idea like your first of all, explain what it is briefly, but then like I want to I'm curious how that was sparked in your mind.

• 28:09Speaker 02

  Okay, well, let me start with the spark and then I'll tell you more about it. Like I say, I was a physicist, so I was trying to figure out how it worked and why it worked and what was the science. I knew there was logic behind it because it was repeatable. I could get in the in the exact same state, change it, change a variable, see how things, see how that changed the result. If I changed that variable, was I still just as good at healing or remote viewing or communicating as I was before? Then change the variable a little more. So for the next, now I left, I left that part of the world and went, went to Huntsville. But I kept working at that and it took me about thirty three years of basically doing

• 28:53Speaker 02

  research in consciousness, changing a variable, see what had happened, change it again, hold that variable still, change another variable and see what affected what, you know, what was connected, how were they connected? What enabled you to do it? What inhibited you from doing it? So about thirty three years worth of that, I thought I understood enough about consciousness to write it down. And then when I started writing the my big toe books, mainly that was a theory of consciousness. But I also knew that it has to also be a theory of the physical world as well. Because one of the things I learned doing this is that consciousness is fundamental and the physical world is not.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  And I learned that because I could do things within consciousness that changed or affected the physical world.

• 29:45Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  But I couldn't do anything in the physical world that actually fundamentally changed consciousness. So the arrow of causality was from consciousness to the physical. So knowing that consciousness was fundamental.

• 30:01Speaker 02

  Then the physical world had to be derivable from the understanding of consciousness and how consciousness worked. And I worked on that problem and probably about two, three years after I'd published my big two books, I got a couple of aha moments and I was able to derive quantum physics directly. So quantum physics has some big mysteries in it. Why should reality be probability at the bottom level? You drill down into reality, when you get to the bottom, you don't find little particles, you find probability. And also, you know, and these things came out of the double slit experiment, which was

• 30:45Speaker 02

  nineteen fifteen to nineteen twenty-five is when that was taking place. The other thing they found out was that

• 30:52Danny Jones?

  This is the observer effect, right?

• 30:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, the observer effect, that what the, what the, what the human knew, the information he knew would change what the result of the experiment was. So that was the observer effect. If he knew these facts, then you get one answer from the experiment. If he didn't know those facts, you'd get a different answer. So that said that we were entangled some way with our reality. It wasn't just that, you know, there was this physical reality and the idea that reality was physical was thrown out because the way you, the way you compute things in the physical reality is with probability, not with particles.

• 31:38Speaker 02

  And, you know, the physicists that are, the atom smashers, you know, the ones that go to CERN and bang particles into targets or into each other and look at what comes out the other side, they will all tell you, and it's pretty much an accepted idea in physics, that reality is not matter based, it's information based.

• 31:59Danny Jones?

  They will tell you that?

• 32:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, they will tell you that. Physics, that's a pretty accepted viewpoint in physics, that reality is information based. Now, they won't Go any further than that because they don't know what the next step is. And actually, the founding fathers of quantum physics, which would have been, you know, Bohr and Planck and Schrodinger and Heisenberg, all those guys, and then eventually Einstein came over and joined them as well. They also came to the conclusion that consciousness was fundamental. You get quotes from all of those guys with that as their, as their takeaway from doing the double slit experiment. Consciousness was fundamental.

• 32:44Speaker 02

  You can dig up a quote of Einstein writing to Baum, who was a kind of a student coworker with him, saying that, "I know that consciousness has to be at the root and has to be fundamental, but I have no idea how to turn that into physics. I have no idea what to do with that." Right. So they knew that consciousness was fundamental because that's what the experiment told them.

• 33:10Danny Jones?

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• 33:54Danny Jones?

  And StopBox is made in the USA, keeping jobs in America. StopBox is also TSA compliant, so you don't need a separate carry case. They also have a wall mount version and one that's easy access in cars. No longer do you have to trade safety for speed and readiness. And for a limited time, our listeners get 15% off at StopBox when you use the code DANIE at checkout. So head on over to StopBoxUSA.com and use the code DANIE for 15% off your entire order. After you purchase, they're going to ask where you heard about them. And please support the show by telling them we sent you. Well, the crazy thing about physics and consciousness is it doesn't make sense. It doesn't, there's no path.

• 34:34Danny Jones?

  To consciousness from dead matter.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  Right, but there but there is a path the other way.

• 34:40Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 34:41Speaker 02

  There is a path from consciousness to physics. So with the physicist, ever since the double slit, the physicists have realized there was some paradigm, some shift in the way that you look at reality, that would make quantum physics be rational. You know, they call quantum physics just weird science. Nobody will ever understand quantum physics. That was a quote from a Nobel laureate. But anyway, so they were looking for this new paradigm shift that would enable them to understand what happened with the double slit, understand quantum physics. And now it's been 100 years. 2025 was 100 years later.

• 35:24Speaker 02

  No progress, not even a small step forward in coming up with that paradigm shift. Well, I came up with that paradigm shift. I understand that. I can derive quantum physics from consciousness, from an understanding of consciousness. So that is, you know, the big Tao. You know, it's a theory of everything. I found out that not only could I explain quantum physics, but I could explain relativity. The big the big unknown there is why is the speed of light a constant? It's always a constant. It can't go slower, it can't go faster. It always goes just the speed of light. And if you have a source, like a flashlight, and the flashlight's going, you know, one half

• 36:06Speaker 02

  the speed of light, and then you turn the flashlight on, you'd expect the light coming out would go faster, would go, you know, one and a half times the speed of light. But it doesn't. It's invariant to the velocity of the source. It always goes just the speed of light. And that I was able to show logically as well, how, why that works. And then the neat thing is that, once you understand consciousness, you not only can derive the objective world, which is basically physics, you can also derive a scientific model of the subjective world.

• 36:44Speaker 02

  And then you can understand why some people are happy and some people aren't. You can understand what we're here for. What's the purpose of us being here? And how are we here? And it all falls out logically and scientifically. No assumptions. The only assumption in it is that consciousness exists. Everything else is just, is just logic. And it's, it's science. It also tells you, you know, it informs, uh, what, makes changes in metaphysics. It answers all the paradoxes in metaphysics. It answers all the paradoxes in physics. Physics has a lot of paradoxes that they know things are like this, but they don't know why.

• 37:29Speaker 02

  You know, the speed of light and the quantum physics are just two of those. There's a whole, there's a whole bunch of those. It's like, I came up with about thirty-five of them. And this model answers all of those, all of those paradoxes. So I guess that's kind of how I got there is that I worked on it for, for many, many years, trying to understand how consciousness worked. And I worked from the inside. So I could do those things. I could heal. I could, you know, remote view. I could, I could do those and see how they were affected. What do you mean heal? Heal. You can use your mind to modify the problem. Well, heal, I mean heal.

• 38:14Speaker 02

  Somebody's ill, you can heal them with your mind. That is a, that's a real thing. You can do that. Matter of fact, that's You've done that? Oh, sure. I've done that many times. Matter of fact, there's a book coming out in the near future that talks about one particular lady that I saved her life a couple of times. She's gonna write a book about it from her, from her experience. But yeah, I do that a lot. The way that works is that you have, you have, this reality is a computed reality. It's an information-based reality, like the physicists say. So it is a computed reality.

• 38:55Speaker 02

  And that means it could be a simulation, or it could be a virtual reality. It's computed. It's computed by consciousness. Consciousness is best modeled as an information system. What's the difference between a simulation and a virtual reality? Nothing. Okay. Really, there's nothing. It's just, one seems to sound like science and the other seems to sound like woo woo. Yeah. But they're basically the same thing. So we're kind of getting ahead of the game here, but I'll go ahead and give a little summary of that. So you have consciousness, as they say, is best modeled as an information system. So what are you conscious of?

• 39:38Speaker 02

  You're conscious of what your five senses pick up, right? You've got sight, sound, taste, feel. Mm-hmm. Okay, you've got all these things, smell. So those are your five senses. If you got rid of that, what would you be aware of? Only one thing, that you exist. It'd be like the Descartes moment. Like an earthworm. Yeah, you would just know that you existed. You would be aware that you were aware, and that was, that was all. You wouldn't have any sense data. So what does your consciousness do? It has sensors. It gets input from the sensors. That input, then, it has processing. It processes that input.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  It compares it to inputs you've gotten before, so it has to have memory. And then, after it has that memory, it goes back and processes a little more, and then it has output. Okay, what are you gonna do about that sense data that you just got? You know, you have to make some kind of choices. That's the output. So what kind of system has input, processing, memory, processing, and output? Hmm. It's an information system. That's, that's just basically the definition, basic definition of an information system. Yeah. So consciousness, you can think of it as an information system. Right.

• 40:58Speaker 02

  Now, the second thing is that if you think of an information system, just any generic information system, if all the bits in that information system are random, then by definition, there is no information.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  Okay. All the bits are random. There is no information. So if you order the bits, make some kind of order in the bits, then that ordered, those ordered bits can stand for something. That particular ordering can be a symbol for something. Could be the number six, or it could be the letter A, or it could be anything that you want to make it a symbol for. So when you take something random and you order it, you are lowering its entropy.

• 41:47Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 41:47Speaker 02

  Entropy is a measure of disorder.

• 41:49Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  So.

• 41:50Danny Jones?

  Thermodynamics.

• 41:51Speaker 02

  Thermodynamics. Second law of thermodynamics says that entropy happens.

• 41:58Danny Jones?

  Over time, in a closed system.

• 41:59Speaker 02

  Over time.

• 42:00Danny Jones?

  Heat death of the universe is increasing entropy over time.

• 42:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. So all systems naturally increase their entropy with time. Everything has a shelf life. So anyway, so an information system then evolves by creating information, meaningful information, significant information, at least significant it. That means it evolves by lowering its entropy. Ordering things creates a lower entropy, creates information. So now just talking about information systems in general. So.

• 42:36Danny Jones?

  But like, okay, so how, how is that lowering entropy? For example, like, like if you have a hard drive, right? You have a blank hard drive. It's all ones or it's all zeros. When you get it and it's blank, and then you add data to the hard drive, then it becomes 11001100111000. Then it becomes high entropy, right? Because that's more chaotic.

• 43:04Speaker 02

  No, that's more ordered. Those things aren't just randomly. If all you did is make it random ones and zeros, that would be more chaotic. If you just go into your hard drive and you had some kind of program that randomly put ones and zeros places, that would be chaos. But if those ones and zeros mean something, okay, there's a 1001.

• 43:27Speaker 02

  That means the letter A, or that means the number six, or that means something else. Then that you're creating order. Each one of those pieces of data you put on that hard drive are a very specific ordered configuration of ones and zeros that have meaning.

• 43:44Danny Jones?

  But is that higher entropy or lower entropy than all ones or all zeros?

• 43:50Speaker 02

  That is lower entropy. All ones and all zeros don't have any information in it. There is no information there.

• 43:57Danny Jones?

  But there's also no chaos there. It's all, it's all purely order. It's all ones, all zeros.

• 44:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, you could say, yeah, we can say that.

• 44:08Speaker 02

  We're kind of splitting hairs there.

• 44:09Danny Jones?

  No, I know. I'm just confused because I've heard other people explain this analogy to me in this way.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, yes, if you have all ones, then there's sort of order of the ones. You know, if you have it laid out in some big grid, there would be ones everywhere. So there's a certain amount of order there as opposed to random ones and zeros. So yes, if you had random ones and zeros, then you ordered them and made all ones or all ones at this place and all zeros the next place. Then that would lower entropy a little bit, but it would be kind of an insignificant lowering of entropy. It might lower entropy that much. It wouldn't be a very meaningful thing. You know, okay, so all the ones are now in a line. So what? You know, what is the significance? What can you do with that? What does that mean?

• 44:59Speaker 02

  And it's really, doesn't have a whole lot of meaning. But if you order them in such a way that it is the numbers, the number system, now you have lots of potential there. You have lots of things. You've defined the number one and the number two and A, B, C, D and alphabets. And now you can pick language and you can do math. So that is lowering entropy that much. Now you've created

• 45:26Speaker 02

  a lower entropy because of the, the meaning, the significance, the capability, the potential of what you've created. That's why the entropy is, is lower. You know, it's all, I also hear it said another way where they say, okay, you have a bunch of soldiers and we know war is very, is very. High entropy. And all the soldiers are marching in line and they all move the right foot at the same time and isn't that low entropy? Yes, it is. But that's low entropy that's insignificant. Uh, what's significant about soldiers is that they go out and kill other soldiers and that's real high entropy. Right.

• 46:05Speaker 02

  So, yes, you can, you can lower entropy just by putting all your ones in a row. But that is, that, that lowering of entropy doesn't buy you anything. It doesn't give you much other than the fact that all your ones are in a row. Right. So what's important about the entropy that I'm talking about here is the significance, the meaning, the potentiality of it. What, what can it do? Now, there's, there's two ways of looking at entropy. One is just the, the order and disorder that we talked about.

• 46:41Speaker 02

  There's another equal, uh, expression of it is, is you look at the system and say, what, how much work can the system do? What can the system do? What can it perform? Okay, so you have a bottle of gasoline and as long as all the molecules of gasoline are in the bottle, you can put a fuse on it and throw it like a Molotov cocktail and it'll make a big bang. There's a lot of energy is released. But if you just leave the cap off for a few months and all the gasoline molecules go out and, okay, now disorder, right? They were ordered all in the jug, now they're all disordered. Right. But how much work can it do? Nothing. It no longer has the ability to work.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  So this thing of the ability to, to accomplish something is also another description of entropy, not just order and disorder. Right. But what is its ability to do something? And when you have, say, numbers and alphabets, that gives you an ability to do something much greater. Mm-hmm. So the entropy there is, is much lower. So anyway, so we have consciousness as an information system. Consciousness evolves, moves forward by creating more useful information.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  And if you let that progress for a while, you'll find that eventually it, it kind of plateaus out. It's making, say it's making patterns and patterns of patterns and so on. And then it takes two of its elements and goes back and forth between the one and the zero. And now it has regular times and I can make sequence of patterns. But eventually it tops out. And when it tops out, what can it do to create more novelty, more space in which to evolve into? And what it does is the same thing ourself does. It takes a piece of itself with all the capabilities of itself, but a small piece. And it gives that small piece free will.

• 48:47Speaker 02

  So it takes, now you have the big monolithic consciousness that kind of plateaued out. But now you have another piece that has free will. And now you have maybe thousands or tens of thousands of pieces that have free will. And that's what you and I are. We're pieces of consciousness. So I call these individuated unit of consciousness. And now you've created a social system, okay? And they have free will. So with free will, you have the possibility of an argument. You have a possibility of different points of view. And suddenly there's more possibilities that you can move into. The, the, all the pieces can work together to come up with something more

• 49:30Speaker 02

  than any one of them would be able to produce on their own. So that is the way consciousness evolved. And I can make an argument, but I won't go through the details. But it's a logical path to say that, once you have a social system, then, and what you're trying to do is lower entropy. You lower entropy in a social system through cooperation, working together, okay? Caring. You raise entropy in a social system by, you know, refusing to work together by being self-centered. It's all about me. And that then splits off into what I call the love side and the fear side.

• 50:12Speaker 02

  So consciousness is evolving toward the love side, becoming love, cooperation. That is positive evolution. On the fear side, if you're fearful, you don't trust. If you don't trust, you don't cooperate. If, you know, it's, it's the negative side. The fear is self-destructive. Right. So I could, we could get into more detail, but I won't go there now. It's, it's fairly obvious that that's the case. So then we come to the amazing idea that consciousness is evolving

• 50:45Speaker 02

  toward cooperation, the caring, the love side. And that the individuated units of consciousness, that's what really you and I are, that our job is to make choices in which we express the cooperation and the caring and the love, because that helps us lower our entropy. And as we lower our entropy, the whole system entropy lowers because we're just a piece of it. We're just subsets, virtual machines inside a bigger machine, if you want a computer metaphor. So that's the, that's the overall thing. Now, if you understand that, then that matches real well with the physicist saying that reality is information-based. Okay? Because

• 51:31Speaker 02

  these individuated units of consciousness now are supposed to make good choices. But basically what they've got is like a big chat room, right? They communicate with each other. The first virtue of reality is just communication protocols. A virtual reality is just defined by a rule set. Here's the rules. If you're going to be part of this virtual reality, you have to abide by these rules. Well, so they could all communicate. But that's a very slow process of growing up just by communicating. So the system says, I need to make another virtual reality where Um, there's more meaningful interaction, not just communication, but where, where there is a more significant issues and significant problems.

• 52:15Speaker 02

  So what it does is it gets a, a rule set together, just like you had a rule set for the communications. It gets a rule set, it gets initial conditions, which are ball of plasma, very high temperature, very high pressure, now we're talking big digital bang. Mm-hmm. The rule set's what we call science and physics. So it punches a run button and the ball of plasma expands, cools, does what it does according to the rules. And it goes just a little bit and it bombs because the rule set isn't perfect yet. And the initial conditions aren't perfect yet, so the system changes it. You know, big digital bang, take two, and so on.

• 52:54Speaker 02

  So the, the actual rule set and the initial conditions over thousands of iterations of this gets to be tuned to give you a more stable, longer thing. And that's why we have this thing called the, uh, the anthropic, anthropic cosmological principle. You've probably heard of that, that scientists have come up with this knowledge that there's a whole set, I think it's like seven, eight, nine different variables that all have to be tuned to each other to like eight decimal places.

• 53:34Speaker 02

  And if you don't have that, if you don't have all those conditions, then life is impossible. We wouldn't be here. Right. That's called the, you know, the anthropic principle because it makes it sound like, uh, the, the universe was built just for us because it's just this perfect way that would allow life to be, you know, to exist here. And the problem that physics has with that is that they have this idea that evolution is always run by random processes.

• 54:06Speaker 02

  You know, you have a random process. Something just happens, and if it's a good thing, it continues. If it's a bad thing, it goes away. And they're all random processes. But you can't get seven or eight things tuned to each other to eight decimal places randomly. The probability of that is, you know, is close to zero. So that leaves, how did that get organized? How did that happen? Well, this big digital bang, take one, take two, take a hundred thousand, that's the process it created. That, you know, those kind of processes. So then, what this leads us to then is that this virtual reality evolved.

• 54:48Speaker 02

  It wasn't programmed. It evolved. Just like the physicists say, from the Big Bang, it evolved, except it did that in a computer. The computer was just a subset of this larger consciousness system, that I call it, that configured itself as a computer. It's an information system. It can configure part of itself as a computer. It's done math, it's learned math, it's learned all those things as it's, as it evolved, like you would think that it would. So I'm skipping a lot of steps here, but that, I'm just getting to the very endpoint. That makes this physical reality a virtual reality, an entropy reduction trainer for individuated units of consciousness. And here we are. We're a piece of consciousness

• 55:33Speaker 02

  playing a human avatar. That human avatar has evolved in this big, from this big digital bang with a rule set we call science. That's what scientists do. They try to figure out what the rules are. And with initial conditions. So then, this supports the, the thesis that this is a virtual reality. But unlike other people who have that thesis, mine is it's a virtually computed by consciousness as an entropy reduction trainer for consciousness, because that helps the whole system evolve toward love. So Right. That comes out to be pretty sweet.

• 56:16Speaker 02

  I didn't expect any of that. All of this was done logically, one step at a time. And actually, it surprised me a lot as it came together, the logic of it. This is not logic that says, well, this could happen. This is logic that says this must happen. It has to develop this way. So it's not a justification of possibility. It's, it's, it's good science. It's, it's fact based.

• 56:42Danny Jones?

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• 57:23Danny Jones?

  Their products are third-party tested and USDA organic to ensure safety and purity. If you encounter stress like me, then try out Cornbread CBD and you can thank me later. And for a limited time, they're offering you, lucky listeners, 30% off your first order. Don't miss out on this. Just go to cornbreadhemp.com/danny and use the code DANNY at checkout. That's cornbreadhemp.com/danny with code DANNY to get 30% off your first order. And thank you to Cornbread Hemp for sponsoring this episode. So do you think that there are other parallel information systems?

• 57:58Speaker 02

  Oh, yes.

• 57:58Danny Jones?

  Computations?

• 58:00Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 58:00Danny Jones?

  Or is there a base, a base, is there, do you think a physical world does exist somewhere?

• 58:06Speaker 02

  No, there is no such thing as a physical world. There's no such thing as physical, it's all just information.

• 58:12Danny Jones?

  Right, everything.

• 58:13Speaker 02

  Everything is just-

• 58:13Danny Jones?

  So there's no, if you think of, some people who imagine simulation theory, they imagine that there's some physical base reality somewhere.

• 58:21Speaker 02

  They do, and I reject that. There is none. That does not make good sense to me, that it's like that. It's all information. Are there other virtual realities beside this one? Yes, of course. I've been to probably six or seven of them. So you can travel. Once you are able to travel around in consciousness, then you can see the bigger picture more, more easily. So there are these other realities. And the rule sets, some of them are a very tight rule set like this one, which makes, you know, every energy exchange is, is, is what, required by the rules. You know, it's very detailed. And then there's another, other virtual realities like when you dream.

• 59:04Speaker 02

  That's another virtual reality, but it's not that buttoned down. The rule set's very loose. You can fly, you can teleport, you can do all kinds of things in dreams that you can't do here because you have a virtual reality that doesn't have this tight rule set. But there are other virtual realities that do have tight rule sets, and they're very physical-like, and you can visit them in multiple ways. You can visit them by just connecting mentally to the characters so you can kind of hear what they're saying. And you can visit them by actually getting, if you have a good working relationship with a larger conscious system, you can actually get insinuated into their data stream

• 59:47Speaker 02

  so that now you're physical, kyon physical, in that, in that particular virtual reality. And you can do that as well, but you can't do that on your own.

• 59:58Danny Jones?

  You're talking about like dreams or altered states of consciousness through meditation or through psychedelics, things like this?

• 1:00:05Speaker 02

  Yes, but I would say, don't go through psychedelics. That will get you, that will get you there, but it gets you there- Without the, without the knowledge and experience to really know what you're doing. In other words, yes, drugs do put you into what I would call the larger reality. It's not that they put you in just imaginary space, it's real, what you get for these drugs. But it's like being shot up in a, in a bottle rocket. Oh, you know, you go up, you're there and then you crash.

• 1:00:40Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:00:41Speaker 02

  It's not, if, if you, anything that you can do on a psychedelic, you can do much better without it.

• 1:00:47Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:00:48Speaker 02

  Yes, you can do it much better, much more fully. You can experience much more in depth. It's not just a flash that you pass through. It's a thing that you learn. You go there, you learn what's going on, you interact, you become part of that, that thing. You're not just being shot through and experienced. You're actually connected in that reality frame. You can go there and.

• 1:01:14Danny Jones?

  And stay there.

• 1:01:15Speaker 02

  And stay there as long as you want to stay there. Time is very different in different reality frames.

• 1:01:21Danny Jones?

  Have you ever tried psychedelics?

• 1:01:24Speaker 02

  No, I don't take psychedelics because my consciousness is very precious to me. And I don't want to pollute it with the, with that. Uh, so I, I didn't. But I've talked to lots of people who do and they've explained their trips and what they've learned and whatever. And all of it is places I've already been, but I've been there in a controlled way where I can understand what's going on. If I don't understand, I can, I can ask the questions and get information. So it's like the difference between, you know, going to, let's say, the Grand Canyon and, and going hiking in it and going down the river and spending a couple of months hiking around in it. Or being.

• 1:02:09Speaker 02

  Flying over in an airplane.

• 1:02:11Danny Jones?

  Right, or watching a video about it.

• 1:02:12Speaker 02

  Watching a video about it. That's kind of the difference. So the, the drugs do put you in a real space, but it's, if you don't actually own it, you know, if you're not doing it on your own, then the problem with it is you, you.

• 1:02:28Danny Jones?

  It's like a cheat.

• 1:02:30Speaker 02

  Well, it's not only a cheat, it's worse than that. You tend to interpret the data. The way, the way the system works is you get a data stream and you have to interpret the data. Okay, that's the same way all virtual realities work.

• 1:02:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:43Speaker 02

  You know, you're playing World of Warcraft, the computer sends your computer a data stream and it puts that data stream into a million dots of light on your screen.

• 1:02:52Danny Jones?

  You're taking binary bits that are coming through a data stream and it's being projected onto a big, uh, computer monitor.

• 1:02:57Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:02:58Danny Jones?

  Showing you 3D people moving around.

• 1:03:00Speaker 02

  Well, what it's showing you is a million dots of light.

• 1:03:02Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:03:03Speaker 02

  And you're looking at those million dots of light and you're saying, oh, that's a river and that's a tree and this is another human and, and so on. You interpret those bits.

• 1:03:10Danny Jones?

  Giving it meaning.

• 1:03:11Speaker 02

  To be that. You give those bits meaning. It's your interpretation is your reality. So we get a data stream and how we interpret that data stream is our reality. So you take a drug and okay, now your data stream is different. It's not just the data defining this virtual reality anymore. Now it's data of something else altogether, but it's not something you've explored and understand. It's just, it's just there. Now you have to interpret that data. If you're not prepared and you haven't worked your way through this, people tend to be fearful and they start to interpret this data in fearful ways.

• 1:03:52Speaker 02

  In the beginning, usually it's positive and happy stuff and eventually it tends to turn negative and becomes scary stuff. But that's them. That's their interpretation. Your reality, even your reality here in this physical reality is your interpretation of the data you get. So everybody really lives in their own reality. It's a multiplayer game, so we agree. This is a table. Because it's a multiplayer game, just like two characters sit down at a table together in The Sims. They, they understand that that's a table because this computer is giving them both that, that information and they both interpret it in a similar way.

• 1:04:33Speaker 02

  But your reality is really your own interpretation of the data you get. So in the subjective world, your interpretation is very large and very different from other people's interpretation. In the objective world, everybody kind of agrees about the table and where it is and what color it is and so on. Its physical characteristics. In the subjective world, that's not true. Everybody sees it in their own way. And the way you see it is the way you interpret it, which has to do with how you are. So if you're a fearful person, you're going to end up with fearful components.

• 1:05:13Speaker 02

  If you're not a fearful person, you won't end up with fearful components because you won't interpret it that way. Oh, here's this big black thing. What is that? Oh, it's a monster because I'm fearful that I might get bitten out there. But if you're not fearful, then oh, it's a, it's a cloud. And look, I see the silver lining around it and it's a happy cloud. So it's how you interpret these things. So if you go up on drugs, then you don't know how to interpret it correctly. You tend to interpret it based on what you are inside, who you are. So you get a lot of, you get a lot of self-created stuff there along with the real stuff.

• 1:05:56Speaker 02

  So it's a hodgepodge of stuff that you're creating and stuff that's there and you don't know how to separate it. Whereas if you just go up because you've learned the skills to be able to go there and do that, then you don't have all that. You, you learn to...

• 1:06:14Speaker 02

  You learn to interpret the data over time, over years of experience, saying that looking at a screen, you know, you, when you're first, when you're first born, okay, this is an apple, and this is mommy, and this is a door, and you learn things. It takes time for you to, to learn how to interpret things properly.

• 1:06:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:33Speaker 02

  Now, you see all the dots of light on your screen, oh, right away, there's the mom, the apple, the door, you know how to interpret it. But that's because you spent a lot of time learning. When you take a drug and go there, you haven't spent the time learning, so it gets a little squirrely, and it's not always what you see. And what you think you've seen isn't necessarily what the data was at all. You are, you're adding to that data stream. Data stream can, data can come to you from three sources: the larger conscious system, some other consciousness, all consciousnesses is added, and from yourself, your piece of consciousness. You can create information, and none of those sources have tags on them.

• 1:07:15Speaker 02

  You don't, you can't tell them apart, except with experience. With experience, you can sort those out. Without it, it's just a jumble. So you don't know, the data you create out of your fear is as real as the data that comes from the system. You can't separate them.

• 1:07:31Danny Jones?

  So you think there's one monolithic consciousness that exists, and that we are all little fragments of that same consciousness?

• 1:07:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:07:38Danny Jones?

  And it's all connected?

• 1:07:39Speaker 02

  Yes. We are subsets of that. So you know, this, this happy saying about we're all one, it's really true. We are. We're all subsets of that piece of consciousness. And we are not all in this virtual reality. There's other virtual realities, like I say, and there's some that are not in any virtual reality at all. But, well, I shouldn't say that. They don't go into this kind of a virtual reality.

• 1:08:03Danny Jones?

  Well, it's really interesting. We were talking about this with Ia Whitley yesterday, and she explained how Um, when one of the astronauts went up into on one of the Apollo missions, he was looking at the earth as they were flying away from it. And he had, there was a psychological effect that overtook him and they called it the observer effect, where he had this overwhelming feeling of being connected and being one with, with the entire planet.

• 1:08:33Danny Jones?

  And he said that like the feeling sort of like lingered for a while when he got back and it like made him depressed when he saw like how no one else felt that way on earth and he only had that unique experience when he could just be so far away from earth and just seeing that little sphere in the sky.

• 1:08:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that's one way to get there. There's another, there's another route you can get to something very similar and many of the NDE, near death experience people get that. And you can, if you are, if you are kind of in charge of your own mind, you can experience it whenever you want. You don't have to almost die to experience it. And that is you can, you can become one with that larger conscious system. Basically you get to see reality, you get to see everything through the eyes of the larger consciousness system, put it that way. And when you do that, you lose your personal identity. You're, you're no longer Danny or Tom.

• 1:09:33Speaker 02

  You just exist and you feel like you're a part of everything. You're, you're everybody to grasp, you're every leaf on a tree, you're every person and you're one with all that is. And you feel the love, you feel connected and it's usually very, very beautiful and a, and a very profound experience. And that's attainable. That's what the, the Hindus called samadhi. You can go to that, you know, to that space, that understanding is, is available. But if it's someplace that you've.

• 1:10:08Speaker 02

  That you like are familiar with and you know how to get there is a lot different than if you get blasted up, you know, on a drug, see it for a little bit and then crash. And your interpretation of it will be a lot better if you go up under your own steam and not go up with a lot of other stuff going on in your head that is not, you know, that makes your interpretation wrong. So to get back to where we were, I guess I kind of got off on this, is that one of the ways the system works is that there is this, this

• 1:10:44Speaker 02

  big computer subset of the larger conscious system, and it is computing this virtual reality. In order to do that, it computes it in terms of probability. That's why this reality is based on probability. It's a probabilistic simulation. So it needs a database in order, the rendering engine needs a database, and that database is everything that is, that could possibly happen and the probability that it will. That's what it needs. And the way it decides what happens next is it takes a random draw from a probability distribution of the possibilities. So that's the mechanism that creates this. You go

• 1:11:26Speaker 02

  dig a hole in your backyard and what are you gonna find? Well, the highest probability is gonna be dirt and rocks and roots and things like that. But if you're down here on the Gulf Coast, you might find a gold coin or something that was left over from four or five centuries ago. So they're all possible, but they all have different probabilities. Probability for that gold coin is much smaller than it is for a rock. So a random draw is taken out of that probability distribution, okay? And when it does, the things that are more probable are more likely to come out of that, that random draw. That's what, that's what it means to take the draw from a probability distribution of the possibilities. Right.

• 1:12:09Speaker 02

  So that's how those things are defined. So it needs this database to To render. And this database, as time goes on, what was in the future becomes present than past. So you end up with a database, I call the probable future database, everything that could happen, the probability it will. And you end up with a past database is everything that could have happened and the probability that it would. And then one little thread that runs through that past database is what actually did happen. All of that data is there and collected, and that's what the Hindus called the Akashic records. That's, I don't know, maybe you're not familiar with that term, but that's where information comes from in your intuitive side.

• 1:12:54Speaker 02

  When you get information intuitively, then you're getting information out of this database.

• 1:13:00Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:13:00Speaker 02

  Now, because it does a random draw from a probability distribution of the possibilities, that probable future is there, and what happens depends on those probabilities. We can, we have, this is our feedback mechanism, we can modify those probabilities with our intent. So if you have an intention, let's say your family's gonna have a picnic next Saturday, and you don't want it to be rainy, you want it to be sunny. You can put an intention out for it to be sunny. That intention will actually change the probabilities of that being sunny or rainy. Sunny will go up a little, or rainy will go down a little bit, if you're good at it.

• 1:13:42Speaker 02

  If you're not good at it, it doesn't do a whole lot, doesn't change much, but you can change things. And that's how the placebo effect works. You know, the placebo effect says, here, give these guys pills, tell them it's the greatest pill in the world and it's gonna heal them, and

• 1:13:56Danny Jones?

  It'll actually have a physical effect.

• 1:13:57Speaker 02

  It has physical effects. That's why, because those people now have more positive thinking about the outcome. Oh, this is the magic pill that's going to help me. Great. And because they have this positive outcome, it actually modifies the probabilities to a more likely positive outcome.

• 1:14:15Danny Jones?

  It's funny, because chemists have actually, psychedelic chemists have explained how psychedelic drugs are largely placebo.

• 1:14:27Danny Jones?

  Which is very interesting.

• 1:14:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, a lot of things are placebo.

• 1:14:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:32Speaker 02

  You know, what, how, how we think does actually affect what happens. So that's how the healing takes place. You use your mind to modify the probabilities of them getting better. And then that means when that random draw is taken or whether they're better today or not, the higher probability that they're better and a lower probability that they're worse. So that's, that's the, the mechanism and that mechanism, uh.

• 1:15:00Danny Jones?

  And that's learned, that's something that you, that this not just, it doesn't just come to you, that's something you have to practice and learn.

• 1:15:05Speaker 02

  It's something you practice and learn.

• 1:15:07Danny Jones?

  What do you make of Chris Bledsoe's ability to heal people that he talks about in his book?

• 1:15:12Speaker 02

  Well, Chris Bledsoe was healed a couple of times himself, rather dramatically. I think the first time it was Crohn's disease.

• 1:15:21Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:15:21Speaker 02

  And, uh, that was in the process of killing them and that got healed. And then I can't remember what the second one is, but he had some other kind of.

• 1:15:30Danny Jones?

  Hit a shotgun wound, got shot.

• 1:15:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, he got shot, shotgun wound and, uh, that got healed. Now, once you, you know, I can, we could talk a little about Chris. Chris is a wonderful guy. I met him at the Psy Games. We talked for a while and we set up a, a, a time for us to have a more extended conversation. Because he had a lot of very dramatic experiences and he doesn't really understand exactly.

• 1:16:03Danny Jones?

  He's been through a lot of trauma.

• 1:16:05Speaker 02

  Been through a lot of trauma and he'd like to understand it better and I can explain it to him better. So we're going to talk in the near future, but he was just a wonderful guy. I had a, I interacted with him and, and his sons and, and, uh, I listened to his daughter sing a song beautifully.

• 1:16:23Danny Jones?

  She's super talented.

• 1:16:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, she's very talented. So anyway, when you.

• 1:16:29Danny Jones?

  But he was, so he, so he was explaining being able to just touch and heal. Like there was in his book, there was a moment where his dog, um, I forget what happened to his dog. His dog was bit by something or, and it was bleeding profusely or was stuck by something. And, uh, he explained putting his hand on the dog and then this fresh wound just disappeared, vanished. And there was another story where he was at some dinner. And a guy was having a heart attack or something like this and Chris like went over to him and like put his hands on him and the guy was like perfectly fine right afterwards.

• 1:17:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, those kinds of things can happen.

• 1:17:03Danny Jones?

  And he thinks it's, he thinks it's, um, he thinks there's this lady, this divine woman who is, uh, I forget what he calls her, but he thinks this is all biblical, like this is a, this is a divine gift that he's been given. And this woman that is communicating with him, uh, is, is trying to tell him about some date when Jesus is going to come back or something like this.

• 1:17:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. All of that is his own tools, his own toolset. It's metaphorical.

• 1:17:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:17:38Speaker 02

  Things happen to people and when things happen to people, people try their best to explain it in some way that seems rational to them. And the explanations they come up with are based on what seems rational to them. They, they make the best shot they can at explaining what's going on. But that doesn't mean that that's what's going on. It means that that's just their best explanation of it.

• 1:18:05Danny Jones?

  Hathor, that's what he calls the lady Hathor, I think.

• 1:18:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:08Speaker 02

  So he's, you know, a lot of people do that, you know, they talk to angels, they, you know, you got all kinds of things like that. And basically that's people creating their own tools to explain things that they can't explain.

• 1:18:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah, they're putting a story to it.

• 1:18:22Speaker 02

  They're putting a story to it.

• 1:18:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:24Speaker 02

  Now, it's not that the story is wrong, it's just that that's their story. That's their metaphor.

• 1:18:31Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 1:18:31Speaker 02

  For explaining what happens because you can't really explain it because there aren't any words in our language that allows you to talk about things that are non-physical. Our language grew up here describing physical things.

• 1:18:44Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:18:45Speaker 02

  Physical happenings and it's not a good language for describing other things. So you're stuck and you can't even think about it without language. You can't put the experience into a form that you could even tell somebody else. So we're forced, if we're going to explain what happened to us to somebody else, we're forced to make up. A story that is as close as we can get to what we've experienced. But I think any of those will really tell you it's the story they put in the experience are two different. You know, the story they make up and the experience are really two different things. They're just trying to do their best to do it. So it's not as wrong, it's just their metaphor for what happened to them.

• 1:19:26Danny Jones?

  Have you seen the orbs that he can summon?

• 1:19:30Speaker 02

  No, I didn't get to, uh, I didn't get to see.

• 1:19:33Danny Jones?

  Have you seen the videos of them? They're all over his Instagram. He goes out to the, he goes out into the middle of the woods or in his backyard even. And he came here and did it on the beach for me and Steve. And he, he basically, he like prays. And for these angels to show up and these orbs sure as, sure as shit. They show up and they, they move around in different directions.

• 1:19:58Danny Jones?

  And I haven't been able to come up with any conventional explanation for what they are. I mean, they're real, I saw them, we filmed them. And, um, he, apparently he can do this everywhere he goes. Um, and he's done it on camera in many places, many times. They're all over his Instagram.

• 1:20:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have heard about that and I don't doubt.

• 1:20:14Danny Jones?

  What do you think, what do you make of that? What, what do you, uh, think that could be?

• 1:20:18Speaker 02

  These are some of the things I'm going to talk to him about and maybe I should wait for that. But I can tell you that he has been picked out by the larger consciousness system to help wake other people up and see bigger pictures. The system does that, it does that in many ways. Um, a lot of it is person, through personal experience like he had. And remember, we are to grow up, become lower entropy consciousness by making better choices. Okay, that's, that's what we do. And our growth is the system's growth because we're just a part of the system. We're a piece of it.

• 1:21:00Speaker 02

  So the system wants us to succeed, wants us to evolve, wants us to move toward love. And it will do things that help not only open an individual's mind, but help.

• 1:21:13Speaker 02

  Open lots of minds. So it'll do things that are just not understandable. It'll do things that are just off the wall and have no explanation. Because that opens people's minds to realizing that it's not just this physical world that the physicists tell us about. There's something else going on, there's other things happening. That cracks open the mind and we're getting to a point. Humanity is getting to a point where we need to make, take bigger steps more quickly about growing up. That's a, that's a quickening that's coming over the next several decades.

• 1:21:53Speaker 02

  So the system is particularly trying to help us grow up and it picked a person like Chris. Partly because Chris asked for the help and partly because he was a real decent, real straightforward, honest human being. That they thought would make a good person to help share that. Also, the people have NDEs and they have these experiences, same thing. They're given the experience, they can come back, tell their friends, write a book. And now hundreds of thousands of people get the benefit and get to grow from that experience. It opens their minds. You know, the crop circles. You know, I've been over to the UK, walked around in those fields and, you know, looked at the plants bent over and read the research and so on.

• 1:22:38Speaker 02

  And you know, overnight, when there's no light, usually no moon. And in one night, you get 20 acres covered with some kind of fantastic, often mathematical. And these aren't straight lines. Straight lines, if it was straight lines, probably a surveying team could do it in, in three weeks. If there was 10 of them. But these nice curved lines and so on that are, that are perfectly in symmetry. Well.

• 1:23:15Speaker 02

  We look at that and we say, that's impossible. It can't happen. Nobody could do that in the dark in one night covering, you know, tens of acres often.

• 1:23:27Danny Jones?

  And you can't see them unless you're in an airplane, right?

• 1:23:29Speaker 02

  Well, no, you can't appreciate them unless you're in an airplane because then you get that view. So it takes a view now. You know, surveyors could maybe do that, but probably not because they trample all over everything. And the way getting there, just trying to make all their angles and stuff. And they can't do curves worth a damn. They can just do straight lines. So it's pretty much impossible. So what do the people think? They think, well, it's impossible. We can't do it. So therefore that must be aliens doing it. But that's just a, it's just another mind opener with the, with the aliens. It's just another mind opener. The larger consciousness system is doing it and it's doing it to help crack our minds open. Because we're going to have to do some serious growing in the next couple of decades.

• 1:24:14Speaker 02

  So it's kind of speeding that process up. And it, it picked, um, it picks people for the NDEs. If they're not going to die and it knows that by the probabilities. It can say, well, the probability of this person is going to come back is high. All right, so let's give them this experience and they'll bring it back and they'll write a book. And they'll, you know, hundreds of thousands, millions of people will have their mind cracked open a little bit to reality being more, more interesting and more complex than just this physical, this physical world. So that's kind of where Chris came in. He was picked to have these experiences. And that's why he was given the gift of healing.

• 1:24:57Speaker 02

  He was given the orbs because he's demonstrating to people that these strange, unexplainable things are real. It's part of our reality. Opens minds to a bigger picture. And that will help us make this transition that we're going to all go through in the next couple of decades.

• 1:25:22Danny Jones?

  Do you think there is a characteristic, a common characteristic that can be found in people that gives them a stronger connection to this monolithic consciousness that Chris Bledsoe seems to be tapped into? Like, are there certain people who have a stronger connection than others? And is there a way to strengthen your connection?

• 1:25:42Speaker 02

  Sure. Everybody has the potential to do all of these things. It's not that you have to be special to do them. Some, well, the way, the way it works is that you come here, you make choices. By those choices, you evolve or you de-evolve. Okay, we've already talked about that. Next time you come around, you're in your next lifetime. And I have multiple lifetimes in my model because it was a logical necessity, not because I think, you know, that, you know, having multiple lifetimes, reincarnation was a cool idea, but it was logically necessary for the model. So, anyway, you come back,

• 1:26:26Speaker 02

  but you start with the quality of consciousness that you earned up to that point. So you make good choices. You are helpful to people. You know, you care about people. And that means you level up a little bit in your quality of consciousness. Next time, you'll start at that quality, but not with any of the knowledge, not with any of the intellectual knowledge of it. Because you have to just apply who you are to new situations, make good choices. So in a way, you have to re-earn it. But it's, it's, it's who you are. It's easier for you to make good choices because you've learned to get rid of a lot of your fear. So, yes, those people who come in,

• 1:27:10Speaker 02

  who are more, have a higher quality of consciousness, just they've been around, made good choices. They then have an easier time of doing these things because they're more connected to consciousness, to the larger conscious system. They're more aware. They're more caring. That kind of person then has an easier Time doing it, yes. But everybody can, it's something you can learn. It's something you can practice. You get good at it with practice. It's not quick. You're not gonna go take a crash course and, you know, in, in two weeks, become a wizard. Doesn't work like that. You have to grow. You have to change who you are. You have to let go of fear.

• 1:27:54Speaker 02

  Fear will create noise in your mind. You have to be able to clear your mind so that it doesn't have any noise in it. It doesn't have stray thoughts running around. You're focused and you have to be able to put power in it. You have to be able, really be able to affect things. And you do that because of the quality of the consciousness that you have. So people who, you know, like yogis, you know, um,

• 1:28:20Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:21Speaker 02

  They, they spend their life meditating and doing these things and many of them can heal. They can do lots of that stuff and it's not because they trained to do it. It just becomes available to them. They're just able to do that because of the quality that their, that their mind has, has reached. But you can learn it. You can, uh, you know, I never had tried to heal anybody in my life till I got out to Bob and Rose and wanted to just experiment with everything. Everything paranormal, we experimented with it. And I will tell you that being able to heal with your intent is probably the easiest paranormal thing that anybody can do.

• 1:28:58Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:28:58Speaker 02

  It's not a hard one, yeah. Everybody thinks, oh, that would be hard. It's one of the easiest things. The way, it's much easier to be effective if the result has uncertainty around it. The more uncertainty, the easier it is for you to change it. So somebody's health is very uncertain because we don't know enough about biology and physiology to really know what's gonna happen next. You know, some people have stage four cancer and given, you know, a month to live and two weeks later, they don't have any cancer at all. So there's lots of uncertainty as to what the outcome might be. If you have, you know, a real bad. Uh, illness of some sort, you know, people get over it.

• 1:29:41Speaker 02

  Some people die from it, but there's lots of uncertainty. Where there's uncertainty, then you can modify the probabilities. And when you modify those probabilities, then you'll raise the probability of that person getting better. Doesn't mean they have to get better. You've just raised the probability.

• 1:29:57Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:29:58Speaker 02

  So it depends where the probability was to start with. If it was a million to one that this person would get better.

• 1:30:05Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:30:05Speaker 02

  Because they had ten biopsies from ten different doctors and they all said, you know, it's gonna kill you in a week, then the probability is very small.

• 1:30:14Danny Jones?

  Versus somebody that gets like hit by a freight train, you know, and their body's completely destroyed and their own life support or something like that. Like, it's gonna be very low probability.

• 1:30:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, very low probability, you're gonna do anything about it. So if the probability is a million to one, you may make it with your intent, go all the way to a thousand to one. Well, that's a lot of power to change it that much, but you're still not likely to get it. Because it's, you know, so you can change probabilities. It doesn't mean you can manipulate them to be whatever you want. Depends on the uncertainty that's involved in what it is that you're trying to do. That's a key, that's a key part of it. But, but yes, healing is a simple thing because there's lots of uncertainty. And it's a thing that's easy to get, to get focused on. It's not abstract. It's a, you know, it's a more solid thing.

• 1:31:05Speaker 02

  So you can, I would say that if you, you know, if you started working on healing in a month, you'd see enough, you'd see enough progress that you'd be, you would convince yourself that you're being effective with it. It's just not hard to do. There's just some techniques, some tools that you can use and, and you just kind of practice at it. And you'd be surprised that, uh, how effective you can be in a short period of time. It's one of the easiest paranormal things to be able to learn to do. Now, you may not be great at it. You may not be able to change everything you want, but you will have periods when your mind is more in the right spot, low noise, you know.

• 1:31:48Speaker 02

  You know, high power, low noise and good focus. And then you'll be more effective.

• 1:31:55Danny Jones?

  You gotta practice this mindfulness stuff.

• 1:31:57Speaker 02

  You have to practice in order to do that, but that's just natural to anybody because we're consciousness. We get to affect those probabilities and those probabilities is what determines what happens here.

• 1:32:08Danny Jones?

  So you you mentioned you were just at this psychic games thing and there's a woman I saw a video of that. I don't know if we watched it yesterday on here or not, but I saw the videos like a YouTube, short YouTube video of this girl who puts on like 10 masks over her eyes and it completely block like blocks her vision and is able to read a piece of paper that they brand a piece of paper they put in front of her. How how is that happening?

• 1:32:39Speaker 02

  It's done. It's it's just real time, remote viewing. You can remote view something that's not in front of you. You can remote view the Eiffel Tower while you're sitting here in Florida, you know, if that's the coordinates you're given, you can see things. You're getting that data out of this database that I talked about. So that data is in the database and you can see what's there. So you can go to the database and see what's here, what's just right in front of you. And you can do that in real time and that's called scene without eyes, or they have a lot of other names with it, but it works fine.

• 1:33:13Danny Jones?

  And you do it?

• 1:33:14Speaker 02

  I I actually spent about two weeks working on it and I was getting close to it, but I wasn't really interested in doing as much as I was interested in finding out how they taught people to do it. But yes, if I've worked at it, if I if I spent two weeks, three weeks at it, then I'd be able to do it. But you have to practice these things. You know, it's like anything else. If you don't practice them a lot, then you get rustier.

• 1:33:37Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 1:33:38Speaker 02

  You know, you won't lose it all together, but you know, like

• 1:33:41Danny Jones?

  Build the muscle.

• 1:33:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, you have to keep the muscle, you know, tuned up.

• 1:33:45Danny Jones?

  Steve, can you find the video of her doing that?

• 1:33:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, the internet's slow. It's like taking forever to load.

• 1:33:50Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:33:51Speaker 02

  But the scene without eyes, you know, you talk about 10 masks, you can take somebody, put them in another room.

• 1:33:56Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:33:57Speaker 02

  You can put them in another room and turn all the lights off and seal all the the windows with black paper so that there's no light in that room. Put them in a basement with no windows, turn off all the lights and put a mask on them if you like, and then you can go to some other part of the house and you can read the book that they have, or you can see what they're doing. It's just getting data from the database. It's real time remote viewing rather than remote viewers think they have to go out and see a thing, a something at a particular place. That's remote viewing. They don't realize they're just getting data of a database.

• 1:34:34Danny Jones?

  Has this ever been like, has this ever been scientifically proven to work?

• 1:34:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, scientifically, not.

• 1:34:42Danny Jones?

  The problem with this stuff is it's like, it's not hard science, it's squishy science.

• 1:34:46Speaker 02

  Well.

• 1:34:46Danny Jones?

  Which is like, uh, you know, a- and it kind of like exposes how the scientific method may not be like the holy grail of figuring stuff out in this world. But like, you can't put this, you can't measure this, you can't put it on a scale, you can't put it in a beaker and weigh it and quantify it. It's so much different.

• 1:35:06Speaker 02

  No, what you said is exactly right. The scientific method is a really great method for doing the science of the objective world. It isn't worth a damn in the subjective world. The objective world, every scientist, wherever they are, doing the same experiment will have to get the same answer. It's not dependent on the scientist or the location or anything else.

• 1:35:31Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:35:31Speaker 02

  The experiment will work the same way everywhere. Well, the objective world is like that. The subjective world isn't like that at all. In the subjective world, everybody's mind is different. Everybody's reality is different. Everybody's attitudes and feelings and beliefs and fears, all of that are different. So in the subjective world, nothing is always going to be the same for all the people everywhere. It's all has to do with an individual and their consciousness. So the, that scientific method is only good for the objective world. It means nothing in the subjective world. But is it real? Sure. I, when I was taking this course of the seeing without eyes, trying to understand how it worked, there was a man came in who was blind.

• 1:36:17Speaker 02

  I'm totally blind and he came in and and walked across the room, took off his jacket and hanging on a hook. And we're thinking, is he really blind? He didn't feel that hook or anything. He just knew where it was. And he had taken this course. He had learned to see without his eyes. So somebody went to the back of the room and they got a book. It was a bookshelf back there with about twenty, thirty books on it and they picked up a book and this was a children's book. And they handed the book and he opened it up and he started to describe. He was rubbing his fingers on over the pages and he was describing. This is a picture of a giraffe and there's a little child over here and there's a red balloon up in the corner.

• 1:37:00Speaker 02

  So he described all the picture and then he turns the book around and we can see he's described it accurately. So then he turns three or four pages and does another one. So somebody asked him, he says, well, how do you do that? And he said, well, I do it with my fingers. I can see through my fingers. Well, that was just, remember I talked about tools? People have tools, they make up metaphors to explain what they're doing. That was his metaphor because he was blind. He did, he saw through his fingers with Braille. So he had that same metaphor, he'd see with his fingers. He wasn't seeing with his fingers. He's getting data out of the database. And that's where he was getting the pictures from. But in his mind, he was seeing with his fingers.

• 1:37:41Speaker 02

  So if you put the book out where he couldn't touch it, he wouldn't be able to do it because he believes that he's using his fingers. So these are tools that we make up, but this blind guy was able to see the book perfectly. He described the colors, you know, and these, these weren't pictures that were raised. These are just printed. There was this ink on a piece of paper, mass produced. And there was no feel different to any of it. It all just felt like paper. So, yes, now you, you see that happening. So somebody asked me, is it real? Of course it's real.

• 1:38:22Speaker 02

  And then one of the students there was a lady, um, from Scandinavia.

• 1:38:28Danny Jones?

  Steve, this is in the video.

• 1:38:30Speaker 02

  Was a lady in Scandinavia and she was one of the people that very quickly did learn to see without her eyes in this course. And I took her outside and walked her around outside and I held on to her so she wouldn't fall off a curb or something. And I asked her questions like, "What color is the house that's in front of you?" And she told me, "It's blue." "How many garbage cans are outside?" "Five." "What color are they?" "Three are green." "Two are blue." And a car pulled up, parked. So I walked her over to the car and I said, "What's the license plate?" That car just came from anywhere. So it's not

• 1:39:11Speaker 02

  like this could be programmed or whatever. We're just outside looking at things. And this was someplace in Germany. She didn't live here. This wasn't her, this wasn't her territory. So she read the license plate and I walked up to a door that had some kind of sign, some kind of, it was like this, some text. She could read it. And I checked her blindfold and that, she was obviously seen without her eyes. So I experienced a blind man and there was probably five or six, seven of the 20 people there, probably eight of them were able to see without their eyes in two weeks. These are adults. That's

• 1:39:53Speaker 02

  awfully quick. Usually adults take longer. Now, the lady who teaches that says, "Give her a five-year-old and she'll teach them in an hour."

• 1:40:00Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:40:01Speaker 02

  Because they don't have the beliefs that we have. And it turned out, the thing I learned at that course was really significant, was that it's all about belief was the main thing. I asked the lady that I took outside and turned around, I said, "Well, how are you able to do this?" And she said, "I cheat." And I said, "Well, how are you cheating?" She says, "I get a little light in from my mask and that's how I can see." So I checked her mask and cheating was impossible, but she had to convince herself that she was cheating in order to be able to do it. So the people who were there, who were more right-brained, could more easily convince themselves that they were doing it some way.

• 1:40:47Speaker 02

  That was okay with them. The left-brain people, the techies, the engineers and showers there, they needed more facts. They couldn't, you see, I'm a physicist, so I know that light comes in around the edge of a mask. That light has to bounce three or four times before it gets to the eyeball. And after light bounces, it doesn't have any information at all. But this lady didn't know that because she wasn't a physicist. So she saw a little bit of straight light coming in there. And that then justified, in her mind, how she could see without eyes. Wow. So, once she got past the belief problem, and I realized that that was the, that

• 1:41:29Speaker 02

  was the key thing, was getting people past their belief that it was impossible. And as soon as they got past that, it was easy. And that's why five-year-olds are easy, because they don't have that ingrained belief that this is impossible. To a five-year-old, life is magical, you know? All kinds of things happen and they have no idea why, they just do. They're curious. They're curious. So if the adult says, "Here, you can see without your eyes, you read this book," they, "Oh, I can? Okay." And they can.

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• 1:43:00Speaker 02

  With just a little, with just a little coaching. So it's the belief thing that we, we turn off those things because we're told that they're impossible. So then I went around to everybody in there who was successful, who could read without, without their eyes through the mask. These are big masks, you know, the masks go way out here and way up here. They're not little tiny masks. They're really big masks that cover you. And every one of them that was adults that were successful said that they, they cheated. But I was also wearing a mask. I know what that mask was like because I had one on too.

• 1:43:41Speaker 02

  And I could make it such that you could see a little, little glow someplace, but I knew that glow had no information in it whatsoever.

• 1:43:51Danny Jones?

  And, you know, also children, I mean, children just on a different, from a different perspective, children, it seems like they have a deeper connection to something that we, as we get older and we get adapted to the rigid frameworks of our society. And the more we start relying on technology and using technology to compensate for other things, it seems like these abilities that may be ancient inside of us have atrophied and they atrophy more from birth to the time we get older and we start getting used to

• 1:44:33Danny Jones?

  technology and, and being brought up in this technological world we live in. And like newborn children, they seem to have, like with those telepathy tapes, they seem to have more of a tuned extrasensory thing that's inside of them that, that we don't have. And it, it makes me wonder how many more.

• 1:45:03Danny Jones?

  How many more things are out there that we can't detect? You know, like a, like a smell, like if we didn't have a nose, we wouldn't know. We wouldn't have any idea of these smells or aromas that are all around us, right? So like what, how many things are out there that exist that we just don't have the sensory organs to perceive?

• 1:45:25Speaker 02

  Well, there's a lot of things that exist outside of our sensory organs. Our sensory organs just follow the rules and the rule set in this physical world. So we're trapped inside the physical world with our physical senses, but we have, we can see, hear, taste, smell and touch things that are non-physical. But again, it's us taking information and turn it into physical metaphors. Okay, so you get information and it just comes to your mind. And you, eventually you just learn to accept that. But initially you tend to hear things.

• 1:46:06Speaker 02

  I heard a voice and it said, so you're taking the information and you're turning it into language. Because that's easier for you to, to deal with that than it is that, oh, I just know. So people tend to hear things more initially. Eventually you don't question the just knowing and you don't have to hear it to make it real. You just get the information. So all of that information that's in that database is, is available to any consciousness. It's, you know, not only are children more adept at that than adults. Now you're, your children are more intuitive at two and three years old. You know, than you are now by a long shot.

• 1:46:50Speaker 02

  Your dog and your cat are more intuitive than you are. The, the, uh, the kids who had autism, their normal processing wasn't available. That was not working for them. You know, the hearing, the speaking, the whatever, wasn't working very well for them. It was kind of chaotic. So what did they do? They developed their intuitive processes. You have two different pathways that you process information. One is that logical, intellectual path. Okay, that's what, that's what most of us adults use all the time. The other is an intuitive path.

• 1:47:36Speaker 02

  The logical path is logical, the intuitive path is not logical. You just get information. There's no reason or whatever, the information is just there and you download it. You query that database with your intent. You have an intent now and there it is, that's the query. And you get it. Most people get information like that all the time, but they, they refuse it. Because they believe that there's nothing there. Just like the seeing without eyes, people couldn't see without eyes as, as long as they uh, you know, but it, once they read, once they could somehow account for it, then they could do it. So, yes, children are much more connected to us.

• 1:48:21Speaker 02

  Children, you know, we think that young children, two-year-olds, who don't speak very much, just a few words, and three-year-olds, whose vocabulary is very, very small. We think they don't understand. They understand a whole lot more. They're not getting it through language, they're getting it intuitively. Right. They understand a whole lot more. Your, your dog understands you more through the intuitive sense, not through language. Dogs don't do language. But they, they know you're thinking about, oh, I think I'll get up and take the dog for a walk. And you think about that and thirty seconds later, your dog's running around in little circles in front of the door. You know, he's anticipating the walk that you were thinking about.

• 1:49:06Speaker 02

  They pick up those feelings. All consciousness are netted, so you can have communication with your dog. That's not that hard. All you have to do is make a mind-to-mind connection with your dog and realize you're not going to get language, you're going to get feeling. That's their, their world is in terms of, of feeling, what they, what they feel like. And you can find they feel sometimes upset and sometimes annoyed and sometimes like having fun. But you can make that communication and you can, can communicate your feelings to the dog and they will get that. So all consciousnesses, they're all on the net.

• 1:49:46Speaker 02

  And you can, just like on the internet, to, to look at somebody's website, you gotta go up and put in their URL. And then if you don't wanna look at it, you, you click on the little X in the upper right-hand corner. You can do the same thing. You can open up a portal so that you connect with this consciousness and you can close it off. And you do that all with your intent. Now, the people you're close to, like your kids and your family and so on, your best friends, you know, well, you're more open. You get their ideas, you get their thoughts, you can kinda feel their feelings, you know where they are. If you pay attention, you can. People who you don't know, you generally don't connect with them until you want to.

• 1:50:31Speaker 02

  Oh, I just met George, or George telling me about his sick mother, you know, I go in and see how she's doing. Then you can open up that connect, you can find the data in the database, it'll tell you exactly what she's doing. And you can look at the database and say, what's the probability she's going to get better on her own over the next month? And you can say, here's, I want health here, I want time here, and you can see a curve. Right. And if you wanna say, well, uh, how good is that probability? I wanna see error bars of, uh, to, uh, two standard deviations. And you'll get curves along your curve that'll give you two standard deviations in probable error. The information's there. Right. And you can determine the output format.

• 1:51:16Speaker 02

  You can, you can request any output format, it'll come, it'll come in graphs, it'll come in colors, it'll come in images of whatever you relate to. The system will give you the output that you, that you want. So these are, you know, these are tools. Uh, everybody has these abilities. Mind-to-mind communication is a great way for parents to communicate with their teenagers.

• 1:51:45Speaker 02

  That's a really good example. Because teenagers want to make their own choices. That's what they're doing. They're becoming adults and they need to start making their own choices. And they don't like it when mom or dad tell them what they should be doing or what they should be feeling or how they should be acting. So they push that away. So sometimes it's really hard to communicate with your teenagers. Because if you say, you know, you really ought to go right instead of left here, they'll tend to go left because they need to do it on their own in their own way. Yeah. So you can talk to them mind to mind and give them some guidance as long as you don't try to give them direction.

• 1:52:27Speaker 02

  If you say, do this, do that, that will backfire. They don't want that. But if you go in and say, you know, there's other possibilities here that you haven't thought of. You should consider this and consider that. Now you're being helpful. You're not trying to overrun their free will. You're trying to give them information that they can use. They'll accept that. And that can be a very helpful tool for helping give your kids guidance that they can accept. So, you know, a lot of us do this anyway. Right-brain people are very good at it. You know, right brainers, people who are intuitive. They're very good at it and some just pick it up very naturally.

• 1:53:11Speaker 02

  Often, the people who are good at it are people who had very troubled childhoods and had to escape the pain in this reality by spending time in another reality. You know, by escaping this reality into an imaginary world. So they train themselves to be open to outside information, outside of this reality. And that's when they were four and five and six and eight and 10. And now they're 30 or 40 and they're naturals. You know, they're mediums, they're this, they're that. Because they trained themselves. By escaping a dysfunctional childhood. So you often will find the connection between people who seem to be gifted

• 1:53:56Speaker 02

  and people who had to escape. That's why they learned these skills so they could escape to an imaginary place that was better. Well, in their mind, it was an imaginary place.

• 1:54:08Danny Jones?

  There are some people who think that that trauma is one of the common things that help people become more open to this and more intuitive and have this sort of sense. When you're talking about things like Chris Bledsoe has, whatever, I mean, obviously, he's been through a lot of trauma, but I think he's, there's people like Jeffrey Kreipel, who have studied this extensively, that, you know, people who have undergone lots of trauma throughout their lives and especially during their childhood, have more of this, a stronger connection to this, this monolithic consciousness or whatever it is.

• 1:54:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I think that makes sense. People who have very serious trauma are, you know, are, people have kind of reached a dead end, reached the end of the rope, so to speak. They're put in a situation where all the normal moves and ideas and whatevers aren't available to them anymore. And when you're in that, you tend to start searching for another way. You start opening up to other things. So, you know, a lot of the people that are, that are also into, you know, spiritual things, you know, teachers and people, you'll find that they first went through what's called the dark night of the soul.

• 1:55:29Speaker 02

  They were miserable people, they were self-centered, they were this and they're that, and life got tougher and tougher, and they went down this spiral until they got to this bottom part where it just couldn't get any worse. And they throw up their hands and give up and. You know, they either wanna die, or they need something, but they they kinda quit. And in that moment of desperation, they actually open up to something outside of them. They stop the the interacting with the physical world, and they start opening up inside.

• 1:56:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:02Speaker 02

  And that then becomes the beginning of a whole new, you know, they climb back up out of that hole and keep on going. And then they become spiritual teachers later.

• 1:56:12Danny Jones?

  Right, yeah.

• 1:56:13Speaker 02

  A lot of that, that's where that's where it starts. And so that's trauma. That's just another kind of, it's like a self-induced trauma, rather than something coming out and, you know, hitting you. It's something you do to yourself. But that trauma puts people into a place of, you know, having to open up to other things. Because just the normal pathways aren't working.

• 1:56:37Speaker 02

  They're not available for some reason. So they open up. You know, like Chris was said, he was desperate. He had this Crohn's that was killing them, and he he basically said, I need help. You know, he was at the bottom. He couldn't, he couldn't function. He couldn't do the things he he needed to do. He couldn't earn a living. He couldn't, you know, he couldn't do the things he had to do for his family and so on. So he got desperate. And when you're desperate, instead of chugging along in the physical, doing this physical thing and that physical thing, you like, you know, I give up. I need help.

• 1:57:13Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:57:13Speaker 02

  I need to change. Something has to change.

• 1:57:17Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:57:17Speaker 02

  And you open yourself up to something, and something happens. Particularly if the system says, oh, here's a good person we could use. We can give them some some insight and some some abilities, and they will spread the word that life is not just all tied up in this nifty physical box. There's other things going on besides.

• 1:57:40Danny Jones?

  Right. So you think that this information system that we are a part of is slowly over time becoming lower entropy? Meaning that we're becoming more open, we're becoming more loving, um, more one? Um, do you think this evolution?

• 1:58:00Danny Jones?

  Has been on a nonstop linear path since, since the first, um, the first consciousness, first conscious being came into existence?

• 1:58:09Speaker 02

  Yes, but it's not linear. So in the beginning, uh, you know, when we were, uh, cave people traveling in small tribes, kind of things. Uh, the world was a very tough and harsh place. And there was a lot of violence. If you saw somebody else had something you needed, it was you or them. So you made that wrong, you made that wrong decision to take their stuff for yourself.

• 1:58:37Speaker 02

  But, so we start there, you know, with control, power, force is, uh, is kind of the ethic. And humans have been walking around on the planet for roughly 200,000 years. Depending on who you read, that can be a much different number, but around 200,000 years is where Homo sapiens been here. And you can think of that, that change was very slow in the beginning, very, very slow. So I'm, I'm looking here at a graph. I'll do it backwards so that people who are viewing it can see it forwards. But let's say this is a time on the horizontal axis and this is quality of consciousness here. So it just doesn't go up much.

• 1:59:22Speaker 02

  It stays just maybe a little tiny bits. And then we got to civilization where people started interacting more and being more interdependent. It goes up a little bit. Then it starts to go faster and faster and it shoots up. So that's because it's an accelerating function. The more you learn, the easier it is to learn more. You know, learning is that way.

• 1:59:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:42Speaker 02

  When you first start learning, you know, you're, it's difficult. You need to learn numbers. You need to learn the alphabet and everything is just really hard. But eventually you can learn a lot faster. So right now, as this curve goes like this, and then at near the curve, that's where we are right now. If you go back 500 years and look at what was What was humanity like 500 years ago? And you will realize it was very rough. It was a lot of violence, a lot of dysfunction going on. There were the people in charge could pretty much do whatever they damn well pleased and everybody else had to suck it up. It was a hard place.

• 2:00:26Speaker 02

  So if you look at every year, every century, 500 years ago, for the last five centuries, you'll see that we've gotten better and better. We're coming up and the last five centuries are just an eye blink in 200,000 years. So not much, not much, just slowly and then it goes. It goes more quickly. So we're right at the knee of that curve. The last 500 years, we've done more in the last 500 years than we did the, what, 195,000 years before that. And that quickening is coming that we're going to have in the next few decades, choices

• 2:01:06Speaker 02

  of whether we go on up and start taking bigger steps instead of tiny little steps. The steps have been getting better, last 500 years, each century takes a little bigger step in that positive direction. But now we're in line for some bigger steps. And the first time ever, humanity has an opportunity to take some big steps. And that's mostly because of the internet. It used to be that a big earthquake kills 100,000 people in someplace and people someplace else really don't care because they don't even know where that is. They may have never heard the name of that country or have no idea anything about it. So eh, not my problem. Yeah.

• 2:01:51Speaker 02

  And now that's not the case. Now you get to see poor little starving children with pot bellies, you know, wherever they occur and destruction and death and bodies and people send money. People care, people see it. So we've gone from being a...

• 2:02:09Speaker 02

  Uh, people that we don't really care about to-

• 2:02:11Danny Jones?

  It's making it less easy to get away with evil.

• 2:02:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's, it, we're becoming more of a family rather than a bunch of relatives out there that we've never heard of. So that's what the internet's done. It's brought us together. Things happen and everybody gets to see about it.

• 2:02:28Danny Jones?

  There's also an argument to be made that our internet has driven us apart and made us less healthy and, and forced us into echo chambers and-

• 2:02:36Speaker 02

  Every technology has its, its upside and its downside. You don't get the upside unless the downside comes with it.

• 2:02:43Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 2:02:44Speaker 02

  When you have an internet, it can be used for good things and it can be used for bad things. And it can help us in some ways and it can hurt us in other ways. That's just true-

• 2:02:52Danny Jones?

  It's just like anything, risk reward.

• 2:02:54Speaker 02

  Exactly. And we have to deal with that. That's our job. We have to look at that new technology and find ways to mitigate the nega- the downside and ways to embrace the upside. That's our job. That's what we're supposed to be doing here. But anyway, we have the opportunity to make choices now in the next, I think, like three decades that will, we'll either make a lot of progress or we'll fail and we'll go backwards a bit. But if we go backwards a bit, it's only temporary, you know? Evolution is slow, but it's relentless. So evolution may chug along, but it ain't going to go back, but it just keeps on chugging

• 2:03:37Speaker 02

  along. And, you know, you may have a big meteor strike and all kinds of dust everywhere and a lot of, everything dies off, but it comes back because it's relentless. So we will make it. One day, humanity will make it to that place where life will be kinder, gentler and more supportive and everybody will have the maximum amount of personal freedom. But-

• 2:04:00Speaker 02

  We have to, we have to make the choices that takes us there. It's not going to be given to us, but we have the opportunity to make a couple of really big steps in that direction. Now, will mankind make those steps or will they, will they drop that, you know, probability? That's up to us. So people who are, who are your age and, and your children's age, they're going to live through all that, all these times that are, you know, like we're, we're getting to that knife edge where it's going to fall to this side or it's going to fall to that side. You know, this side's positive and wonderful and this side sucks.

• 2:04:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:04:39Speaker 02

  So we're getting to those places and the people that are alive and young now will live through all of that, that decision making, probably.

• 2:04:49Danny Jones?

  Do you think it's possible that far in the past, we evolved to be super low entropy and achieve this pinnacle of consciousness and then maybe we were wiped out or reset by some sort of a cosmic cataclysm or something like this?

• 2:05:11Speaker 02

  No, I don't think so. I think that we were, you know, once this-

• 2:05:15Danny Jones?

  Or maybe even escaped Earth?

• 2:05:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I don't think that's the case. I think that when the larger conscious system made this, this, uh, this virtual reality for us to play in, we got here and it was, it was tough, but people were far spread, you know, spread a lot. We didn't really have civilization then. We just had a bunch of tribes making their own way. Then we ended up with civilization where we were stuck in cities where we were next to each other and we had to cooperate more and share. And you had the people that made the shoes and the people that made the weapons and the people that built houses and the Thatcher and so on. We got interactive and, and independent. That helped us grow then faster than when we didn't.

• 2:06:04Speaker 02

  When we were all just kind of nomads wandering around in space that was mostly empty. So, yes, it's been a long gradual process of us growing. Now, to grow up, you have to change who you are. It's, it's not a matter of intellectual growth. It's not a matter of understanding intellectually. It's a matter of being. It's not, it's not like acting kind is going to help you. Being kind is what makes you grow up, not acting. So you have to change who you are. You have to be different. That's why it's so slow. It was just that we all could act. All we needed would be a script and, you know, we could all do really well.

• 2:06:47Speaker 02

  But it's not about acting, it's about being. And no, I don't think that happened. Although I do have one historical fact that kind of puts a timeline on it. And that is that this larger consciousness system, when it went from a monolithic thing to a thing with lots of individuated piece parts that we talked about, it had to learn, just like we have to learn, it had to learn to cooperate. It was just consciousness and it had always been just one monolithic thing. So when now it had all these piece parts, it made those to give it a richer set of possibilities. And I think it started out by saying, all right, all you piece parts, here's what we're gonna do today.

• 2:07:32Speaker 02

  We're all gonna practice being kind. We're all gonna do this and do that. And all the piece parts that had free will went, not today, I'm going fishing, because they were independent. So the system then got a little forceful, tried to push them, tried to bully them, tried to threaten them into doing what it wanted, its idea of. And it discovered that that didn't work. Whenever you tried to bully or force or regiment, it always turned out to make things worse, not better. So the system itself had to learn to become love. And we were the foil by which it had to learn that.

• 2:08:16Speaker 02

  It had to learn to treat us with respect and with caring and let us grow up, because you can't force anybody else to grow up. You have to let them grow up from the inside out. Right. So that's how the larger conscious system grew up.

• 2:08:31Speaker 02

  Now, we're doing that with each other. And the historical point here is that if you go to the Old Testament, you'll find, this is Christian Old Testament. It goes back, what, 5,000 years B.C. or further back in its history of the Israelites and so on. And you will find that there was a angry and jealous God. And if you don't do what I tell you to do, I'll turn you into a pillar of salt. You know, you had this kind of attitude going on. And then you get to the New Testament, and God is love. It's all about love and turning the other cheek and doing under others as you have them doing to you.

• 2:09:14Speaker 02

  Well, what changed that angry and jealous God into the God of love? That was a larger consciousness system trying to bully the individuated units of consciousness into doing what it wanted and realizing that didn't work. And then it grew up. It had to change what it was at its being level. It's a conscious system. It's aware. It didn't just happen to be full of love and perfect. It had to learn that, just like we have to learn that. So you have that history that dates back into, you know, 5,000 B.C. or maybe before that, maybe even 10,000 B.C. I'm not quite sure how back, how far back that goes. But in any case, that kind of puts a timeline to it.

• 2:09:59Speaker 02

  If that indeed is, is the case, if that difference between Old Testament and New Testament, it was the fact the larger conscious system had to learn to grow up itself. And now it's helping us learn to grow up by getting people like, like Chris Bloodsow and, and like, you know, Crop Circles and lots of people who get this message.

• 2:10:25Speaker 02

  And many of them get it just through something personal. Some personal thing happens to them and they experience the paranormal in a, in a very dramatic way. Yeah. And then they become searchers, seekers, and they go out on the internet and see, did this happen to anybody else? And that's, you know, if you go to a place like, um, like the Psy Games, you'll find that, you know, if you, if you ask the people, well, how'd you get involved in this? Most of them will say, well, when I was such and such, this happened to me. And ever since then, you know, you get that. So it. Yeah. That's, that's kind of the movement and the system is helping us grow up by creating those kinds of experience.

• 2:11:08Speaker 02

  I talked to a woman once who said that her mother died and about 10 days after her mother's death, she had a phone call and she picked it up and it was her mother. Hmm. It was her mother's voice and the mother said something like, you know, hi, and called her some baby name that nobody else would have known. Called her that and said, I just wanted to let you know that I'm fine and you don't have to worry about me. And the lady was so freaked out that she immediately thought that somebody was playing with her and she slammed the phone down. Right. And then a few minutes after that, she wished she hadn't because she realized it was her mother. Because of the baby name, nobody else knew. It couldn't have been anybody else fooling around. So now that lady becomes a seeker, right?

• 2:11:51Speaker 02

  She, she starts searching the internet for other people who have talked to their dead parents. And she finds that thousands of people have talked to their dead parents. Mm-hmm. So that's the system, sometimes one at a time. But then these people collect and they talk to each other and somebody writes a book. It's kind of the waking up period is what we're going through now. That's what you're doing. You're here, you know, running this podcast and you're talking about things that are off the map for most people, right? These are things that are unusual. And most, a lot of these unusual things are there to help people wake up. This reality is not as buttoned down as you thought.

• 2:12:35Speaker 02

  It's not just this simple, physical thing. That's what most of the UFO things are about. It's just another way, like crop circles, to get people to open their minds to something more than what they've been fed all their lives. To have a sense that greater possibilities exist.

• 2:12:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:55Speaker 02

  So that is a lot of that. Now, it's a virtual reality. So if the system wants to have a little flying saucer land in your backyard, it's a virtual reality. You know, it can do that. It's just a data stream. So it puts that little flying saucer in your backyard and it puts divots where all its little landing pads were, and it puts a charred place in the middle. And the little green guys with complaining ears come in, you feed them dinner and you all sit around and talk. And, you know, they get back in their ship and they fly away and maybe they leave an artifact or just they leave, you know, burnt spaces in your yard and whatever. So that's simple. It's a virtual reality. It's just data, put in a data stream.

• 2:13:38Danny Jones?

  And some people are getting even like radiation poisoning and radiation burns and stuff from these things too, which is wild.

• 2:13:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, those kinds of things can happen, you know? People, you know, they found out when they started to explore like hypnotism, you know, where you give people suggestions and you can do all kinds of things with that. You can have people make a, get a big rash on their arm because you give them that suggestion.

• 2:14:04Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:14:04Speaker 02

  There's a big connection between mind and body.

• 2:14:07Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:14:08Speaker 02

  And a lot of things can happen. That happen basically in consciousness that end up in physical manifestations.

• 2:14:16Danny Jones?

  And you don't think it goes the other way, right?

• 2:14:18Speaker 02

  No, it's not the other way. The way, the only thing that goes the other way is that if you have something happen, say to the avatar, it doesn't change the consciousness. It provides constraints for the conscious. Let's say,

• 2:14:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:33Speaker 02

  You get in an accident, now you have brain damage and you can't remember your name, you, you can't remember where you live, you, you mumble.

• 2:14:41Danny Jones?

  That's like how I am now.

• 2:14:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. You drag your left foot, you know, you have brain damage, so you, you don't physically operate the same anymore. Well, your consciousness doesn't have brain damage. There is no brain. That brain is, is never rendered unless somebody's head's cut open.

• 2:14:57Danny Jones?

  Right, like a video game.

• 2:14:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:14:58Danny Jones?

  You're not rendering.

• 2:14:58Speaker 02

  It's like a video game.

• 2:14:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah, you're saving processing power.

• 2:15:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. So, so now the consciousness has to play a character that can't remember its name and drags his left foot.

• 2:15:09Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:15:10Speaker 02

  See, so that, it affects the consciousness in that way. It doesn't actually affect the consciousness, but it gives the consciousness, I said, the constraints it has to work within.

• 2:15:19Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:15:20Speaker 02

  But yes, mind can create all kinds of physical things. Matter of fact, there's several doctors, Dr. Sarno is one of them who, after S A R N O, Dr. Sarno, um, I don't remember his first name, he's dead now, but he has a lot of people who, or some people are still practicing his stuff. He realized that an awful lot of ailments had a emotional and a mental component to them. And he would, he said that, once he explored this and found ways to work with this, that about eighty percent of all the patients that walked in his door, the physical problems they had could be resolved with working with them on an emotional level.

• 2:16:05Danny Jones?

  Right. Well, it's certainly true that when people are diagnosed with a cancer and told they have a month left to live, that's gonna really affect their state and make them depressed and make them lose all hope. And that is going to. Have a snowball effect on their outcome.

• 2:16:21Speaker 02

  And yeah, absolutely. And all their friends.

• 2:16:24Danny Jones?

  Imagine if they had that same diagnosis, that same tumor or whatever the cancer was. And instead they said, look, this happened to you, but most people survive. Everything's great. You just need to do these things, go outside, blah, blah, blah, blah. Encourage that person to encourage an elevated state. You know what I mean? Instead of basically painting this dark portrait for them.

• 2:16:47Speaker 02

  And what's worse than that, that patient goes back and they tell their spouse, they tell their kids, they tell their brothers and sisters and their neighbors, oh, I've got cancer and I'm going to die in a month. So now you have another 20 people all with that image of this person dying in another month. All of them sad, all of them negative. And that probability of dying just gets right up. So that is a, that's a problem.

• 2:17:13Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:17:15Speaker 02

  You have now a bunch of people doing it and a lot of people are more powerful. If you get a, like they call these things healing circles. They're not really circles. They're just a bunch of people that get together to try to heal. And if you had 10 people who are all of equal strength and ability, they will be able to do 10 times as much as one of them. It adds, it's all additive. They're all putting their effort to modifying the probabilities. Some will be better than others, but if they're all equal, then 10 of them will be 10 times more effective than one of them. So yes, you get all your neighbors and your friends and your family all miserable and upset because you're going to die. Then that probability that you're going to die just gets jacked right up.

• 2:18:00Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:18:02Speaker 02

  Now, I'm not going to tell people that they should not go to doctors. That's not a good idea, but you should first work on something. Let's say you got a, you feel a little lump here in your neck and that bothers you. Instead of running right to a doctor immediately, these things generally, they're time sensitive, but not that time sensitive. Take two weeks to work on it. Take two weeks to use your mind to say, that's benign. It's just fatty tissue collected in there. There's nothing, you know, too serious about that. Do that in a meditation state, or do that just when you're quiet and by yourself. Do that for two weeks, because anything you're gonna do, you'll be able to do it within the two weeks. If you take a month, you're not gonna be much better at it.

• 2:18:47Speaker 02

  So do that for two weeks, and then go see the doc. Instead of running in to see the doc while you're scared, oh, that might be a cancer. You've just jacked up the probability that it is a cancer. So just relax, let it go, accept that it'll be whatever it is, and whatever it is, you'll deal with it. Don't feed it negative energy, and try to feed it positive energy. It's just a fatty tissue, or it's just benign in some way. Then, you go into the doc. Don't not go to the doc. Go to the doc, but work on it first for a little bit of time. That then would be a better way to, to deal with those things, because most medical things are not

• 2:19:29Speaker 02

  on that fast of a timetable. I mean, some things are, obviously, you're bleeding out, you're not gonna sit down and, you know, think about it. You're gonna try to go someplace where they can, where they can fix it, but if it's something like cancer or something else, then you've got, you've got two weeks that you can... Most people put it off that long anyway, you know, before they decide that they need to go in. Instead of using that two weeks to worry about it, use that two weeks to fix it.

• 2:19:55Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:19:56Speaker 02

  And get your friends to fix it. You know, put positive energy in there, if they're friends that are positive. If you've got naked friends, they'll say, oh no, I bet he's got cancer. Don't tell them about it.

• 2:20:08Danny Jones?

  Going back to this UFO stuff, do you think it's possible that there is a, there could be another civilization living somewhere on the earth that is like far more advanced than us? Like, for example, right now, if you compare us, living in the western world, people living in Silicon Valley, driving these autonomous vehicles, using phones to communicate, you know, implanting brain chips in people to fix things like, you know, paralysis or whatever, at the same exact time, there's people running around naked in the Amazon. So do you think that you can extrapolate that and could compare us, say, we're the naked people in the Amazon? Are there people that are that much more advanced than us that we don't know about?

• 2:20:53Speaker 02

  I suspect not. Physically advanced, you're talking about physical advancements.

• 2:20:58Danny Jones?

  Technological.

• 2:20:59Speaker 02

  Technological advancements.

• 2:21:00Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:21:01Speaker 02

  Now, if you're talking about advancements in quality of consciousness, yes. There are probably people, there may be groups of people who are much more, have a much higher quality of consciousness than we do in our world. And these are probably going to be Argarian people who spend their day sitting out in their field, watching their sheep eat grass to make sure the wolves don't get the sheep. Because they live a simple, uncomplicated, direct life, connected with nature, not a lot of stress. They've, they've learned to cooperate with the environment that they have. They have their good days and bad days, but basically, they probably are people who are

• 2:21:43Speaker 02

  more, you know, adjusted to their life and to what's going on. And they probably have a lot less stress than people running around, you know, trying to beat Wall Street.

• 2:21:54Danny Jones?

  But what do you make of these corroborated experiences and sightings of these like flying saucers? Or if you want, the stuff that the Harvard psychiatrist John Mack talked about with these abduction experiences, people being sucked up into spaceships and having their eggs and sperm extracted and talking about they're from the future and they look like, they look like children with like little bodies, big heads and eyes. Like it's obviously like something that he's interviewed hundreds of people and they all explain the same exact thing. What are your thoughts on that?

• 2:22:30Speaker 02

  Well, these, this is, these are things that happen within consciousness. Okay. There is no physical reality. We only have the information that we're fed in the data stream. That is our reality. Well, I shouldn't say that. Our interpretation of that is our reality. Now, there are.

• 2:22:56Speaker 02

  You know, if you wanna, again, put a spaceship someplace or subduct into a spaceship and have somebody operating on you, that's just data in a data stream. Now, you feed that data stream yourself, remember? So there's three ways you get data. You get data from the larger kind of systems, you get data from other I U S Es, and you get data from yourself, you create it. And most of your experience is a hodgepodge of all three of those. So, you know, that, that experience of being beamed up and then had something done to you? Yeah. That's a standard fear test kind of experience.

• 2:23:39Speaker 02

  The system does a lot of fear testing to see what you're ready for next. You know, what, what can it put into your data stream that will help you grow up? What level are you? Where are you? And what, what kind of things are gonna help you grow up rather than frighten you and make you go backwards? So they, they do some fear testing, and that's one of the fear tests. You know, it's a, it's kind of a standard test, so a lot of people get that. And if they get a very fearful approach to it, oh no, who are these people? What are they doing? I feel totally helpless. I'm out of control. Oh, they're gonna do this and that to me. If you get that, then you start, your own fear will start to add to that story.

• 2:24:23Speaker 02

  And it'll get worse, and it'll get horrible, and they'll do worse things to you. You'll start to, you'll start to add to the story. And that is one fear test, and a lot of people get fear tests. There's a lot of other fear tests that people get. People who start going out of body, often they'll, they'll run into monsters. Yeah. You know, they get out of body for the first time, and they meet some kind of monster with big bloody teeth or something, and they run and jump back in their body and it's gone. And now they're upset with themselves because they've been wanting to get out of body for years, and they finally do, and they, they, they run from it. Those kinds of tests, we get those while we're dreaming, we get those just...

• 2:25:06Speaker 02

  Can just happen to us. We get a data stream. We may be sitting on the back porch at two o'clock in the afternoon, perfectly sober, and get that in our data stream. And there may be five people with us that all get the same thing in their data stream. So everybody sees the flying saucer. It just depends. The system will do that to challenge us, to see at what level we are. And if we feed it with our own fear, then it turns out to be a lot worse than it would be if we didn't. So that's the problem. It's not going to be that the system gives us something horrible. It doesn't. It gives us something that is more benign than that.

• 2:25:50Speaker 02

  So I can tell you, I've had similar experiences to that, too. I've had my, uh, I've had my sessions with the, you know, with the flying saucers and the beamed up and interacting with beings.

• 2:26:01Danny Jones?

  You had experiences like that of being abducted?

• 2:26:03Speaker 02

  Yes, I've had experiences like that.

• 2:26:05Danny Jones?

  In your sleep or like fully conscious?

• 2:26:08Speaker 02

  Well, in my, uh, my awareness, I was fully conscious. But in actuality, I was just getting a different data stream. And I dealt with that. I dealt with it, uh, without a lot of fear. And it turned out okay. But it was the same sort of thing that I hear when others talk about it. And I kind of thought, well, you know, that's just not a, you know, not a good thing, but a bad thing. It's, uh, something I'll watch out for. I let it go and it, you know, it didn't happen anymore. It was that kind of a thing.

• 2:26:44Danny Jones?

  Happened once?

• 2:26:45Speaker 02

  Eh, probably a couple of times, two or three times. But what happens when they give you these tests? They'll give it to you and then they'll modify it and give you it again. If you do well, they'll give you another one, see if you do well. And if you pass two or three of them, then it wasn't just lucky guess. It was you've already passed that point. So then they don't get them anymore.

• 2:27:05Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:27:06Speaker 02

  And as I went back to it and, and inspected it, you know, those experiences, I think it was just the larger conscious system trying to give an assessment of who I was and how I would interact and how much fear I had.

• 2:27:22Danny Jones?

  How old were you when this happened?

• 2:27:23Speaker 02

  Hmm?

• 2:27:24Danny Jones?

  How old were you when this, uh, alien abduction happened?

• 2:27:26Speaker 02

  Uh, I wouldn't really call it an alien abduction.

• 2:27:29Danny Jones?

  Right, you're saying you're calling it a data stream test or something like that. But it's for normal, for, for somebody who doesn't, isn't aware of this.

• 2:27:36Speaker 02

  Again, exactly. People, again, make up a story.

• 2:27:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:39Speaker 02

  To fit the experience.

• 2:27:40Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 2:27:41Speaker 02

  So it's the alien abduction story that fits the experience. But I had an experience and it also was put in the context of some other beings in kind of a spaceship. I mean, that was this, that was the story that was given to me. And, um, I was like teleported there, if you will.

• 2:28:00Danny Jones?

  Um. What were you doing prior?

• 2:28:03Speaker 02

  Ended up there. I'm trying to think about how old I was. I was probably, um, late twenties, early thirties for me.

• 2:28:12Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:28:12Speaker 02

  That, that happened. But see, I had been working already for some years with Bob Monroe. So I had a, a little more savvy with mind and consciousness and, and that kind of stuff than the average person was. So I looked at it not from a, a personal, this is scary viewpoint, but from a, this is a interesting, this is an interesting, uh, trip. This is an interesting reality.

• 2:28:39Danny Jones?

  What were you doing leading up to when that happened? Do you remember?

• 2:28:44Speaker 02

  I think. What was I doing? What, the moments before?

• 2:28:49Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:28:50Speaker 02

  I was probably just lying in a bed, not sleeping, you know, being awake with my mind kind of drifting. I hadn't gone to sleep yet, but I wasn't, you know, I was in a twilight state. I guess they, they call that, you know, it's kind of in a twilight state. And then suddenly all these things started to happen from this twilight state. So I had no, I wasn't, hadn't gone to sleep yet, but it wasn't a dream. It was something else. It was just an experience that I got. Experience is information. Data defines the experience.

• 2:29:23Speaker 02

  So that happened. I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to it. I experienced it. I let it go. But I had a lot of experience for that time. I'd been going out to Monroe for some years.

• 2:29:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:33Speaker 02

  And strange experiences were almost every day for me, you know? I could put it into a perspective. If you just got that out of nowhere, it would be probably scarier and more, you know, more of a problem.

• 2:29:47Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 2:29:48Speaker 02

  I had, you know, I had lots of experiences that were unexplainable. So another unexplainable experience was not that big a deal.

• 2:29:58Danny Jones?

  How would you describe the beings that you saw?

• 2:30:02Speaker 02

  They were not like us, very different, weren't human. The beings that I saw, the beings that did that weren't human.

• 2:30:13Danny Jones?

  Were they hominid looking, two arms, upright, two legs?

• 2:30:17Speaker 02

  Mostly hominid looking, yes, but very different. And again, that's the picture I paint. I get the data and I have to put the face on it. I have to put the,

• 2:30:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:31Speaker 02

  I have to make the story to describe it. So now if I read a lot of books about, you know, grays and people with big eyes and that sort of thing, that's probably what I'd, that'd be the story I'd put on it.

• 2:30:43Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:30:43Speaker 02

  But I didn't have that stuff then. It wasn't that popular. So I made up my own pictures. And they were just very strange. They weren't humans.

• 2:30:55Danny Jones?

  Did they communicate? Was there any communication?

• 2:30:58Speaker 02

  Uh, yes, there was some communication. They, I talked with them, they talked with me. Um,

• 2:31:09Speaker 02

  but the feeling that I got during that communication was sort of like the feeling you get when the guy at the used car store tells you only a little old lady, uh, you know, owned that car and she only drove it on Sundays. You know, you get,

• 2:31:23Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:31:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, you get that feeling that they were telling you things, but that you really couldn't believe it or take it too seriously.

• 2:31:31Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 2:31:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was just, it was kinda off and you had this idea that there was something else going on, you know, besides what you were experiencing. There was another components to it. So you had that sense of the, of the experience. So you weren't quite sure, yes, they were saying things, but you weren't quite sure that there, that there was another, what do you call it? Another agenda. There was some other agenda going on.

• 2:32:01Danny Jones?

  You smelled bullshit.

• 2:32:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, you smell something. It's not all what you see, you know, what you see is just what you see. There's other stuff going on that you don't know about. So you definitely got that as a strong opinion, but that was part of the stuff that was gonna, gonna check your fear level.

• 2:32:18Danny Jones?

  That's interesting because, you know, uh, speaking about John Mack, there he did, there was a famous case that he studied in Zimbabwe, in Rua Zimbabwe, the school, aerial school, where all of these children, I think there was like 14 or 15 children, all saw being, standing outside of the playground, like beyond the playground, staring at them and communicating to them with feelings. They said there was no verb, no auditory, there was no words being transmitted, but they were looking into their eyes and they were being just flooded with emotional feelings. And the feelings they described were, um, the way they interpreted those feelings was that like technology is bad

• 2:33:03Danny Jones?

  and the way we are developing and evolving our technology is going to destroy us and we need to stop.

• 2:33:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, that may be something that they had already heard or just, uh, you know, just the message. I had, I had the sense, kinda going back to that experience. I had a sense that there was a, another agenda going on, but I didn't feel particularly threatened, but that was me. I already had gotten rid of most of my fear earlier on, you know, out at, out at the lab with Bob. So I didn't, I didn't feel really threatened, but they were doing things to me. Yes, but it was, my kinda attitude was, hmm, that's interesting.

• 2:33:53Speaker 02

  But I could see that if I didn't have that ability or that experience, you know, that that could be frightening. And then once it gets frightening, then you start making up your own story. And you start adding things to it and you become a generator of the information that you're, that you're interpreter interpreting. So it kind of depends on the fear level of the individual. And, and, uh,

• 2:34:20Speaker 02

  yeah, I got a, I got kind of a message after that. It happened a few times and I then made contact when I was, before I would go to sleep, I was making contact with these people. And I got the idea, you ought to just turn that off and ignore it. Stop, you know, stop with that. It's, it's, uh, you don't, you don't need that. So I did. I cut that off. You know, like I say, on the web, you get shut and you click the X, you can close a portal.

• 2:34:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:45Speaker 02

  If you want to. So you just close the portal and now you don't hear that anymore. You don't get it.

• 2:34:50Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 2:34:51Speaker 02

  So that's just one of the things you can learn to do.

• 2:34:54Danny Jones?

  So this larger consciousness that you speak of, that we all come, come from, is this God?

• 2:35:01Speaker 02

  Well, that's an interesting thing. You know, I never looked at it that way. It just turned out, I was just following the logic of how consciousness evolved. And I ended up with this larger consciousness system. And about, I don't know, 10, 15 years ago, I was giving a, a talk in a basement of a church because that's a very cheap venue. And it was in Atlanta, Georgia. And I had two PhD theologians there, was the minister and the assistant minister. And the idea just hit me. So I stopped what I was saying. I was telling people, sort of things I've told you. I was telling people the larger conscious system and so on. And I asked them, I said, well, you two are theologians, right? And they said, yes.

• 2:35:47Speaker 02

  And I said, tell me, what are the characteristics of God? Now, I don't want, you know, dogma. I just want the fundamental characteristics. What, what are the attributes of God in general? And they did, they went out and huddled and came back about ten minutes later and there was their list and they had about six, seven things on there that was the attributes of God. Every one of them was an attribute of the larger consciousness system. And when I, I didn't expect that, I thought maybe one or two or three might be, but all of them were. And after that, I started thinking about it, well, you know, this model has also derived God. What is God? Where does it come from? Well, it's the larger consciousness system. It's the source of everything.

• 2:36:32Speaker 02

  Oh, yes, we are created in its image, little pieces that are the same piece of consciousness with memory and processing and whatever, we're virtual machines inside the larger machine and it all kind of fell together. That, that's what most people talk about when they talk about God, functionally, you know, the attributes. But now, the larger conscious system isn't perfect. It's not supernatural, it's natural. It doesn't know everything all the time, but it can know everything, but it has to focus its intention, you know, it has to focus here or focus there. And if it focuses everywhere at once, then it doesn't get the fidelity that it does if it focuses various places, so. So it's a consciousness system.

• 2:37:17Speaker 02

  And then that says, that says that it, it has all those same functions that we ascribe to God. So not only does this theory of everything do physics and do psychology and do metaphysics and do philosophy, but it also does theology. And that answers some of the big questions in theology. But, you know, where's God come from? And how did that start and on? Well, it all goes back to that original cell of consciousness that could just be a one or a zero, and it evolved from that state. So, yes, and I've had any number of people that, uh, this one lady, she was a nurse

• 2:38:01Speaker 02

  and I can't remember where, in Colorado, I think, and she wrote to me and she said, I am a very religious person. I consider myself to be very religious. I take religion very seriously and I always have. And she went on to say, wherever I go now, I always carry two books with me. The Bible and my big toe. She says, I love your work because everything that was mysterious that I didn't understand, I understand it now and it all makes perfect sense to me.

• 2:38:32Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 2:38:32Speaker 02

  So I've had a number of people and what I expected when I wrote the books is that the people who were very religious would not like my big toe very much. They would, you know, I'd find them on the negative side of that, but I have it. Mostly I've found people who are religious to think that it's a really good idea. Because suddenly all the things that they were taught have a scientific foundation under them rather than a mystical foundation under them. And it's the same with the paranormal stuff. Everything paranormal is easily, you know, turned into logic and science. That's just the way consciousness works. Consciousness is netted.

• 2:39:14Danny Jones?

  So if the larger consciousness is God, that means, that means we are all also God.

• 2:39:19Speaker 02

  We're also pieces of that system.

• 2:39:22Danny Jones?

  We're God.

• 2:39:22Speaker 02

  And we have all of its attributes, but at a smaller package. Okay, well, think of the computer thing. You have the mainframe and then you have

• 2:39:32Danny Jones?

  Totally.

• 2:39:32Speaker 02

  Then you have 10,000 users and each one of those users has a little bit of memory and a little bit of processing and so on.

• 2:39:41Danny Jones?

  We're all pieces of it.

• 2:39:42Speaker 02

  We're all pieces. So we have the same general attributes, general attributes of God. We are pieces of that larger conscious system, but we're in a smaller package. We don't have the, we don't have the capacity that it has because it has the capacity to fit in all of us and everything else. But we're, we are, we have all the same things. We can evolve the quality of our consciousness to that same level of being love. So we can, we can duplicate that. We're not limited other than in

• 2:40:19Speaker 02

  Resources. We have limited resources. It doesn't seem to. It has limited resources too, but it's it's much bigger.

• 2:40:27Danny Jones?

  Well, the God of Christianity, capital G.

• 2:40:32Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 2:40:32Danny Jones?

  Um, they believe that Christians believe God is all-knowing, all omnipotent, which means God knows everything that's ever happened and that will ever happen, which means God knows the future, which means our stories are already written.

• 2:40:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, see, I wouldn't agree with that. I would say that the larger conscious system knows most everything that has happened because it's all in that database that it collects on all the decisions and choices and so on. So it's got all that data collected and it has omniscience in the sense that it can look at everything that's going on and why it's going on. So because we're pieces of it, you know, the mainframe can look at all the users and what the users are doing and how they're doing it. The mainframe, it's actually, it's just a piece of the mainframe. So the mainframe isn't locked out of that. They're just using a piece of that mainframe. So it's the same

• 2:41:32Speaker 02

  thing. So yes, the mainframe can know what's going on, but the future is not a done deal because if the future is a done deal, then there are no choices. If there are no choices, there is no free will. If there is no free will, there's no consciousness. Consciousness I define as awareness with a choice. That's it. Awareness with a choice. Free will is necessary for consciousness. If there are no choices, then there's, you know, there's nothing. There's no growth. There's no evolution. There's no change. If if it's all fixed, then there's nothing happening. It's the zero. It's the zero set. So there's no purpose to it. It's just done,

• 2:42:16Speaker 02

  finished. It's a so what? You know, there's nothing significant ever. And that doesn't build a system. You can't build a system out of that. So the idea that This is a determinist, deterministic. Now, the physicists will like to say this is deterministic because they want to say that if I knew the state vector of every particle in the universe, I could compute everything that would happen from there on. But that's nonsense. It doesn't work like that.

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• 2:43:20Speaker 02

  Physicists who want to believe that matter is at the bottom, even though their experiments tell them that they're not, they paint themselves in a corner. There's two logical positions that are totally opposite, and you can't mix them. One is that this is deterministic and materialistic. If it's materialistic, it has to be deterministic. Those two are a match set. They go together. On the opposite corner philosophically, you have consciousness, time, and free will. Those three have to exist. If you take any one of them away, the other two can't make it.

• 2:44:04Speaker 02

  Consciousness needs choice. Conscious of what? Doing what? You know, it's, it has to have input. You have to have choice. This input or that input? You have to have choice. How do you interpret the data? So if you don't have choice, you don't have free will. If you don't have free will, there is no point in consciousness. Consciousness doesn't really exist. It's, it's not, you know, there's nothing to do. It's all been done. Right. So it's the, like I say, it's the zero. It's starting at zero. There's nothing. Nothing can change. Nothing can grow. Nothing can evolve. Nothing can ever be learned. It's just nothing.

• 2:44:46Speaker 02

  So that, you can't make a system out of nothing doing nothing. Right. So you, you know, I find that to be kind of irrational, an irrational space to be. The rational space is, yes, there is growth, there is change, there is time. You know, if you don't, if you have a choice, you have to have time for the choice, after the choice. So the physicists will have to tell you that this is deterministic. There is no free will and there is no consciousness and there is no time. All of those are imaginary things that we, we believe, but they're not true. And all of that's BS. What do you mean, there's no time and there's no learning and there's no, that doesn't make any sense.

• 2:45:31Speaker 02

  That's because they misinterpret one of Einstein's equations. They get that, but there is time, there is free will and there is choice. And that free will is kind of sacred in, in the world of consciousness. That's what, if you don't have free will, then again, you don't have anything. Right. So you need all three of those, time, choice and awareness. All of those together have to be, you know, as a set. Just like materialism and determinism have to go as a logical set. And you can't have one foot in this camp and one foot in that camp and still be rational. To be rational, you have to be in this one, or at least consistent, you have to be in this one or that one, or you're logically inconsistent.

• 2:46:16Speaker 02

  So that's the choice, the zero set that does nothing, goes nowhere. And the set that evolves and grows and creates, that's, that's the set that is what I experience. Hmm. You know? What happens when we die? Uh, that's an easy question. I know that's the hard question, but that's really the easy question. And first, let me tell you how I know, because how do you know what happens when you die? Well, I know from, from several approaches. One.

• 2:46:54Speaker 02

  It's easy to do a mind to mind connection with somebody and then just follow along with them. So you see, hear, smell and taste what they see here, smell and taste. And it's just a mind to mind connection. What was it? Spock used to do that with the fingers on the head, right? He'd do a mind meld. Well, it's kind of like that, but not quite so show. You're tapping into somebody else. Yeah, you touch it into somebody else's mind. So you're just an observer. You're sitting there observing what they're doing. Right. And I've done that two or three times with people as they died. Wow. And you can just attach to them and then you can go with them and see where it goes. And then you go through. You were there while they died?

• 2:47:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're just attached to their consciousness. It's what you're attaching to, their consciousness. The body dies, the consciousness doesn't. So when they die, you're with their consciousness and you can follow that process that they go through. And that's one way that I learned. The other way was that a long, long time ago, the larger conscious system gave me a job in the virtual reality frame I called the transition reality. And that's where you end up after your avatar dies. And it's there for a transition. And I was there just to learn what was like. I was, I was like a Walmart greeter, you

• 2:48:20Speaker 02

  know, the people would die and they would come there and I would say, all right, come on, come up this way. It's fine. Everything's going to be all right. And I was doing that for a while and I got around to the various places and stations. And so I spent probably, I don't know, months where every night I had entities come to me when I was very young, like seven years old. They taught me how to go out of body and they. Taught me a lot of other things too, how to get around in the non-physical. So I had all that happen to me at a young age. And I had, you know, non-physical friends forever. And I still do. Some of the ones I interacted with when I was seven, they, I still interact with them.

• 2:49:04Speaker 02

  So that's been a constant. But anyway, the system sent me to this transition reality so that I would understand what happens when you die. And I worked there for probably a month. Every night I'd lie down and as soon as I hit the bed and shut my eye, I was gone and I was there. And I did that every night until I learned everything that was there. So I've seen it from the death and the process and the transition. And then I've seen it from the other side where the, that transition comes to the transition reality and, and goes through the process of finding another avatar and, and going back.

• 2:49:44Danny Jones?

  So it's sort of like the idea of reincarnation. So our consciousness gets shuttled into another avatar.

• 2:49:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:49:50Danny Jones?

  And born, like when a baby is born, does it enter?

• 2:49:54Speaker 02

  Doesn't have to be when it's born. It can be, mostly it is before. Once the, once the, um, the, the baby has sensory organs, it can see, it can hear, it can smell, it can taste. Then that's when a consciousness can, can go there and see, hear, smell and taste those things from those sensory organs. You know, it can like log on to that because there's sensory data there to process. So that way the, the consciousness can hear the parents' voices, can hear music being played, can, uh, experience some, you know, of what's coming, can pick up its intuitive,

• 2:50:38Speaker 02

  can pick up the feelings and the, the, the kind of ambience of the space that it's in. So there's a lot of things that it can, that it can do there. It gets a sense of feeling, a sense of space, you know, it can punch mom in, in the belly, you know, and do things that are fun. So yes, it often, it often comes in before birth, just when it has sensory stuff. Before there's any sensory, there's no point. There's no input data. There's, there's no data stream. So once there's a data stream, it can log on to that data stream.

• 2:51:11Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 2:51:12Speaker 02

  Now, sometimes it comes and logs on even after birth. Sometimes it's slow, sometimes something happens. There's a, there's some, you know, one case I had, a friend, a friend of mine had a family member who lived somewhere, not around me or her. And they had a baby born with a brain cancer. So the baby was born and they detected, I'm not sure how they detected, maybe they detected it in the ultrasound or something, it had some kind of lump in the brain that it shouldn't have had.

• 2:51:54Speaker 02

  So then when it was born, they, they examined that and found that there was some sort of a brain cancer. And when they discovered that, the entity that was going to be the consciousness logged on to that, changed his mind and said, no, I don't want that. I don't want that, I don't want that experience. I don't want to be logged on to an infant with a brain cancer. Not what I had in mind. So they backed out. And the system was looking for somebody to pick that up. And I got invited in, well, I was invited by this friend to see what I could do.

• 2:52:36Speaker 02

  So I saw, I went to the babe, I saw the brain cancer and I healed the brain cancer. And brain cancer then disappeared. And another entity came, wasn't the first entity, but another entity came that was willing to take that on. And then the healing took place after that other entity came. And so it actually got a second. You want to call it the consciousness, spirit, soul, whatever you want to call it. So the first one got replaced because it didn't back out now. That brings up a point is free will does not get run over. If you say no, if they say, well, do you want to take this body?

• 2:53:21Speaker 02

  You can say no, and they won't force you. You're not forced to do anything.

• 2:53:26Danny Jones?

  And how do you know that happened? Like, how do you know that this entity entered the baby and then did a U-turn and left? And then something else came in?

• 2:53:34Speaker 02

  Because when I log on, I look at the whole situation. When I get into it, I get there and I see what's going on, what happened? And I talked to the entity that was the baby then. I talked to that entity, that consciousness. And that consciousness was up in a whip because it didn't want that. And then I, I kind of asked the system, you know, what, what do you want to do here? There seems to be a problem. And the system said, give me a moment. And I was, you know, so I work all that out. Like if you came and told me that, you know, my mother is ill, can I help? I would don't just go and help with that problem.

• 2:54:17Speaker 02

  I have to go connect with your mother, find out what the problem is, why the problem is? Where did it come from? Why is she having that problem? And then I can decide whether I should heal it or not. Because sometimes the problems people have are part of their learning experience. They need to have those problems. It gives them choices to have. So sometimes it's because they've had a lifetime of anger and stuff. And it's built up, you know, negative stuff in the body is now expressing all that anger in terms of a cancer. In which case you don't mess with it. You say, no, I'll let that one be. It's, it's what they need to experience. They need to experience the, the consequences of the way they've been.

• 2:55:01Speaker 02

  But other times I'll find out that, oh, it's just, you know, yes, this would be a good candidate to heal, you know? That's a good idea. So I have to connect with everything before I decide what it is I'm going to do about it. And when I connected with this entity that was the consciousness for that baby, I found that it didn't want to be there. It didn't want to have that kind of a experience. So then they got somebody else and I did the healing and the cancer went away. And that little person is now probably an adult.

• 2:55:33Danny Jones?

  How did the doctors react to you healing the cancer?

• 2:55:37Speaker 02

  They react to it like it's a miracle. So they saw it, they had tested it, it was cancer. They didn't know that that before they did a biopsy probably. And it just went away. Cancer does that sometimes.

• 2:55:57Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:55:58Speaker 02

  So, you know, that was some years back, but this person, like I say, it was a family member of a good friend of mine. So they kept getting updates on it. So I was getting the updates on what was happening and what was going on.

• 2:56:12Danny Jones?

  Have you, you have, when's the last time you had contacted this person, that baby who is probably now?

• 2:56:16Speaker 02

  I never actually had physical contact with them. And after I did the healing, I just, I butted out, I let it go. So it worked on its own way, but I did get a sense, I did talk to the entity that was coming in. And I told my friend that the entity coming in is really a high quality entity. It's one that didn't mind taking the risk of starting out with a brain cancer or whatever that might mean. You know, living the first bunch of years of your life in surgeries or, you know, whatever else it might mean, or dying early.

• 2:56:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:56:49Speaker 02

  So I told her what the kind of entity that it would be, and it turned out that that was the kind of entity it was. So she reported back to me and said, yeah, she's really a special, a special kid. So I've been doing these things all my life, you know, it sounds like a wow, but it's every, it's kind of a eh. Everyday thing that I do. And I don't any longer have to go into a meditation state or anything, just do it. You know, it's either I can tell you I never meditate anymore. I can tell you I live in a meditation state, they're both equivalent. It's both the same thing. So.

• 2:57:29Danny Jones?

  That's amazing, man. The, that's super fascinating just to hear your story and the way you live your life and the way you look at the world.

• 2:57:36Speaker 02

  I got many, many stories.

• 2:57:38Danny Jones?

  I bet you do.

• 2:57:39Speaker 02

  I generally don't tell them though. I don't like to tell stories.

• 2:57:44Danny Jones?

  Well, I'm sure there's a lot more we can talk about and I would love to do a part two to this podcast down the road. But we just did three hours. So thank you for your time. I'm very grateful for you coming here and doing this. Is there a place where people can go to get in touch with you or learn more about your work?

• 2:58:02Speaker 02

  Sure. Yeah, there is several places. I have a website that is www.my-big-toe.com. They can go there and they can find, yeah, there it is. They can find a lot of information. And I've just skipped over the top here, kind of hitting some of the high points and skipping some others. And so a lot, there's a lot more that I didn't say that than I did say. But you can go there and get the gist of it pretty much from the website. If you're interested in doing paranormal, if you want to prove it to yourself, and I would suggest

• 2:58:42Speaker 02

  that you do that, because it's hypothetical and magical until you do it yourself, and then it's real after you do that. And I've got a course there that you can get that will, it's an audio course. You just take it. It's a, it was the best of the best of the audio courses that I did to teach people to do all the paranormal things. It'll teach you mind to mind. It'll teach you changing probabilities. It'll teach you remote view, you know, talk with dead people, all the things you might want to do. You can get a course there to do it. You can read my books. The books are a little hard to read for a

• 2:59:23Speaker 02

  lot of people, but if you read them very slowly, they'll make more sense. Now, besides that, I've got a YouTube channel. The YouTube channel has something like 1,500 videos. Most of those videos are one or two to three hours. So it's a tremendous amount of video that nobody would ever get through all of that. But I have two things to help you out. One is I have a search tool which you can get to here in the website that will that will search by subject through all of those two or three thousand hours of video by subject.

• 3:00:07Speaker 02

  And it will give you a link that'll take you to just that ten minutes in that video where I talk about that subject. And then a dozen by Oh, that's cool. by order of significance. So you can go, you can really search through all the thousands of hours very efficiently by subject. And I have a specially trained AI called AI Guy, which is a character in my books. And AI Guy talks with my voice and is about ninety-eight percent accurate. If you ask it things about my model and, and you know, the things that are in the books and in the videos, he can ask it a question and it's a a very accurate AI.

• 3:00:51Speaker 02

  We took a normal AI and then we fed it the transcripts of all the videos that I've ever done. And we fed it the books and we fed it everything basically that I've said. So it's it's got all of my material in its database. And it does a very accurate version of me. So if you'd like to ask me a question and you find that hard to do, go ask AI Guy and he will tell you very closely the exact words that I would use. That's amazing. Yeah. That's super impressive, man. It's really very good. Yeah, I have a guy who does AI who figured this all out for me and made AI Guy. And then we tried to test it, you know, it gave me a lot of difficult questions, questions that weren't just simple,

• 3:01:34Speaker 02

  but hard questions that you really had to understand to get it. And he gave me like fifteen questions and I'd answer them and they'd tape all of that. And then they'd ask the AI the same and then compare the answers between mine and the AI. And they were Pretty much right on. There was very little differences. Occasionally, the AI would say something that I didn't say because I just didn't think of it, but it did. And occasionally, I would say something that it didn't think of, but I'd say about ninety-eight percent, it's like talking to me. That's amazing, man. So we can go to that. Um, if you're interested in the science, you can go to the, uh,

• 3:02:15Speaker 02

  the YouTube, find a playlist called Science or Science Trilogy, something like that, and you'll find a lot of me talking about the physics involved of the, the science of it. If that's something that interests you, go there. Um, you know, some people are interested in science, some people are interested in the rest. If you're interested in the soft side of it, like, how do I do better with my relationships? You know, how, how do me and my significant other get along better? Uh, how do I raise my children? You will find the soft side of it in a lot of videos that, that I did, um, with a couple of ladies,

• 3:03:00Speaker 02

  where the soft side was their main interest. And I've got, I don't know, thirty, forty videos there that, uh, are all about relationship and connections with people. You know, it's the science of the subjective. You not only get a, a new science of the, a more general science of the objective of, of better physics, but you also get a science of the subjective that tells you, you know, what, what it's all about. Right. The right way to think of things, to grow and to end up having good relationships. So you can get both sides there on YouTube. Okay. I tried to keep the science mostly in videos and YouTube because I didn't want

• 3:03:41Speaker 02

  too much science in my book. I wanted my books to be accessible to everybody. And all you have to do is say that there's physics in the book and nobody will pick it up. Right. So I tried to not do too much of that. And there's not much in the book. The books were written at a general level for everybody. You don't have to have any particular background to read them. The only thing I suggest is, is read them very slowly. They're very, very dense, which is what makes them hard to read.

• 3:04:10Speaker 02

  You will probably, you will probably find something that takes you fifteen or twenty minutes to think about in almost every paragraph. So if you just kind of read over it, you're gonna miss a lot of it. You have to read a paragraph and then think about, how does this, how does this affect me? What is it saying about me and my life and my experience? And the reason I called it my big toe wasn't because I was so proud of it. You know, oh, it's my big toe. It was because it's derived from my own experience in the non-physical and as a physicist. And I tell people that it's just the launchpad for your own big toe.

• 3:04:50Speaker 02

  You cannot, you know, you, you have to experience something before it's your truth. It cannot be your truth if it's not your experience. If you read about it, it's somebody else's truth, not yours. And if you take on that experience as you read about it and say, well, that sounds good. Well, now you're a believer in that truth. You don't want to believe. You want to not believe anything. Stay skeptical of everything so that your own big toe, the way you see the world, is based on your own experience. That's the way you have to go. So I'm not trying to sell you anything here as far as an attitude or a model or anything else. I'm trying to give you a framework in which you can build your own model of reality based

• 3:05:34Speaker 02

  on your own experience, which is why I gave courses on doing the paranormal because people said, well, okay, I'd like to base it on my experience, so help me, help me have experience of the paranormal. So I did. I put that course together for that reason. And it comes with a set of binaural beats that you can get separately. It just, binaural beats will put you into a, a mental space that's equivalent to somebody who's been meditating, say, for a decade. It just gives you that theta, theta state.

• 3:06:05Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:06:06Speaker 02

  Where you're solid and you keep that theta state from the beginning to the end, you know? And then when the exercise is over, you're back without it.

• 3:06:13Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 3:06:14Speaker 02

  But that's what the binaural beat does. It kind of coaxes your EEG energy into the, into the theta region and then keeps it there.

• 3:06:23Danny Jones?

  It's beautiful stuff, man. Well, thank you again. I appreciate it and we'll make sure we link all that stuff below for people that want to learn more and, and find all your stuff, so. Thanks again.

• 3:06:32Speaker 02

  Okay, you're welcome. Well, thank you for the opportunity.

• 3:06:34Danny Jones?

  My pleasure.

• 3:06:35Speaker 02

  You know, information is wonderful, but shared information is much better.

• 3:06:40Danny Jones?

  That's right.

• 3:06:40Speaker 02

  That's your business. You're in the business of sharing information and that's how we move forward in this reality. We have to connect and share. That's what's important.

• 3:06:51Danny Jones?

  I agree. And you're doing a great job. So thanks again.

• 3:06:54Speaker 02

  And you're doing a great job.

• 3:06:55Danny Jones?

  I appreciate it. Good night, everybody.

• 3:06:57Speaker 02

  Good night.

• 3:06:57Speaker 03

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