#185 Scott "Kidd" Poteet - SpaceX Polaris Dawn Astronaut on Spacewalk, Moon Landing and Mars

Scott “Kidd” Poteet is a retired U. S. Air Force lieutenant colonel and highly experienced pilot who served more than two decades in the military. Over the course of his Air Force career, he flew F-16s in multiple combat deployments and held roles in leadership and training, earning a reputation for his strong work ethic and focus on mission excellence. Poteet’s dedication to both teamwork and mentorship helped guide the next generation of pilots, showcasing his commitment to service and the advancement of aerospace. Since retiring from active duty, Poteet has remained deeply involved in pioneering space initiatives and operational leadership. He served as the Mission Director for Inspiration4—SpaceX’s first all-civilian orbital mission—and continues his journey into human spaceflight as a pilot for the Polaris Dawn mission, part of the groundbreaking Polaris Program. Through these endeavors, he exemplifies a passion for pushing the boundaries of exploration and technology, reflecting both his military heritage and forward-thinking vision for space travel. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: https://ShawnLikesGold.com | 855-936-GOLD https://patriotmobile.com/srs | 972-PATRIOT https://cozyearth.com/srs https://ziprecruiter.com/srs https://roka.com - USE CODE "SRS" https://tryarmra.com/srs https://identityguard.com/srs https://boncharge.com/srs This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/srs and get on your way to being your best self. Scott "Kidd" Poteet Links: Website - https://www.kiddpoteet.com X - https://x.com/KiddPoteet IG - https://www.instagram.com/kiddpoteet Polaris Program - https://polarisprogram.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Mr. President, my company tore me of the explosion on our rig.

• 0:03Speaker 01

  On October 2nd.

• 0:04Speaker 00

  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

• 0:09Speaker 01

  Tom Cruise is.

• 0:10Speaker 02

  Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up.

• 0:14Speaker 01

  From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 0:16Speaker 03

  What would happen if I stopped doing it? You're stalled, you're freezing there, that's what.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 0:24Speaker 03

  I'm not the first then.

• 0:25Speaker 01

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not admitted without parent.

• 0:31Speaker 04

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• 1:00Shawn Ryan?

  Scott Potte, welcome to the show.

• 1:03Speaker 06

  Thanks for having me. This is, this is quite a, quite an experience, so thank you.

• 1:07Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, you know, we, uh, been looking forward to this. We met at inauguration and, um, had a quick, I don't know, maybe 15 minute conversation there. And I've always wanted to have an astronaut on the show, so, um, so yeah, thank you for coming.

• 1:24Speaker 06

  Absolutely. There's only, there's only like six, six or seven fif- or six fifty astronauts have gone into space, so. Blessed to have that opportunity and just excited to talk about it.

• 1:36Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, me too, me too. But, uh, so I want to do a life story on you and, uh, talk about your time in the Air Force, your childhood, get into space. And then who knows what kind of rabbit holes will go down here, but, uh, but yeah, like I said, thank you for coming and I'm, I'm looking forward to this. So, everybody starts off with an introduction here, so.

• 2:01Shawn Ryan?

  Scott Kidd-Potte. Born in Chattanooga, Tennessee, you grew up in New Hampshire earning a bachelor's in outdoor education from the University of New Hampshire before diving headfirst into the Air Force. You're a retired US Air Force Lieutenant Colonel with over 20 years of service where you logged more than 3,200 flight hours in aircraft like F-16s, A4s, and T-38s. Over 400 of those hours were in combat supporting operations like Northern Watch, Southern Watch, Joint Guardian, Freedom's Sentinel, and Resolute Support. You commanded the 64th Aggressor Squadron, graduated from the Elite USAF Weapons School,

• 2:46Shawn Ryan?

  basically the Air Force's version of Top Gun, and even flew as the Number Four Demonstration Pilot with the Thunderbirds. You then went into the private sector, serving as Director of Business Development at Draken International, and later as Vice President of Strategic at Shift4 Payments. You were the Mission Director for Inspiration 4, the world's first all civilian spaceflight in 2021. You also suited up as the Mission Pilot for Polaris Dawn in 2024, a SpaceX mission that took you nearly 900 miles above Earth, the farthest humans have traveled since Apollo, and included the first ever commercial spacewalk.

• 3:31Shawn Ryan?

  You're a triathlete who has competed in 15 Ironman races, including four world championships in Kona. Now, you live in New Hampshire with your wife Kristen and your three children, and most importantly, out of everything we mentioned, you're a Christian. Amen. So, welcome to the show, once again.

• 3:53Shawn Ryan?

  If you watch, you know, everybody gets a gift. Use these on your next Iron Man.

• 4:00Speaker 06

  I will. I appreciate that.

• 4:02Shawn Ryan?

  Vigilance lead gummy bears. Give you a couple more of those to take home.

• 4:05Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 4:06Shawn Ryan?

  Those are hard to come by. And they're made in the USA.

• 4:09Speaker 06

  Still legal? At all 50?

• 4:10Shawn Ryan?

  They're still legal. We haven't made any changes yet, but uh, I don't think we're going to either. But uh, then, so, I have just one more thing before we really get, we get going here. So, I have a Patreon account. Patreon is uh, it's, it's a subscription online community. They have been with us here since the beginning when I was doing this in my attic, when we couldn't get any advertisers, any way to make money. Um, and they were the ones that like, they're the ones that supported us that, that, that got us everything from the cameras to the employees to moving into this to, to everything.

• 4:51Shawn Ryan?

  And um, so one of the things I do in, in that community is I uh, offer them the opportunity to ask each and every guest a question.

• 5:03Shawn Ryan?

  And they had some good questions.

• 5:04Speaker 06

  I know. It's the most nerve wracking question, I'm sure.

• 5:06Shawn Ryan?

  So, this one's from me.

• 5:09Speaker 06

  Oh, no. Is that legal?

• 5:12Shawn Ryan?

  I'm part of the community too. And uh, so, this one's for me.

• 5:19Speaker 06

  Is that because no one asked a question?

• 5:20Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, no, no. There was the original question. I'll ask you too.

• 5:24Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 5:25Shawn Ryan?

  But I'm gonna ask mine first. Cause I've been dying to talk to an astronaut about this, cause we do dive into some conspiracies here, as you know. Did we go to the moon or what? I've been wanting to talk to an astronaut about this for, there it is.

• 5:43Shawn Ryan?

  We have not been back to the moon since 1969. What, why haven't we gone?

• 5:50Speaker 06

  Why? Oh, man. Um, I think we just shifted our focus as a, as a country. You know, NASA had different priorities. Once we went to the moon, which I do believe we have, um.

• 6:05Shawn Ryan?

  You do think we did?

• 6:06Speaker 06

  I do. I do. I, I don't know. I mean, I would imagine there would have been a lot more leaks out there.

• 6:15Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I'm with you. I think about that. It's really hard to keep that big of a secret.

• 6:21Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 6:21Shawn Ryan?

  But why haven't we gone back? I mean, we don't, we don't just go anywhere and then like, oh, fuck it. There's nothing here. I don't, I don't think we need to come back to the moon. We walked on it for five minutes and we're out. There's nothing to see here. Like, really? Give me a break.

• 6:38Speaker 06

  It's not easy. Um, there's a sequence of miracles that, that happened. I mean, think about the, the computer power of what they had back in the Apollo program. We have more in our iPhones these days. Um, so it wasn't an easy task. Um, and then once it was accomplished, you know, in my opinion, I, you know, the, the, the focus shift to low earth orbit. You know, building a station, um, accomplish the science and research that has been the focus for the last few decades. Um, amazing things have come out of that. You, you can do a lot more at, uh, at zero gravity and, um, with the science and research. And we, we experienced that on our mission with our forty, forty experiments that we had lined up.

• 7:21Speaker 06

  And that's just, you know, let's build up the station. Let's, let's explore low earth orbit. Um, and now that we've kind of made this new shift with a, uh, opening up a new chapter in commercial space exploration. You know, um, allowing these companies and organizations to, to kind of, uh, go off on these new tangents and, and explore. We're not only going to address low earth orbit over the next, you know, coming years. It's, it's all about, okay, let's go back to the moon, the lunar surface and, let's go to Mars. Um, cause it's human nature to explore and curiosity and, and, oh, by the way, we can benefit life on earth.

• 8:06Speaker 06

  Um, so, you know, bottom line, I think it's just a focus. Um, and now that we can shift and, let's do more because we can. Reusability and technology is improving. Um, but it's a, it's a heavy lift. It's it's not easy or otherwise we would have, you know, knocked it out in a couple of years. It's we're still a couple of years away.

• 8:28Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, you know, I don't know what to think. It's just, what is that 1969 to the, what is that 50?

• 8:34Speaker 06

  I'm 51 at 73, so that's an extra four is 55.

• 8:38Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, like 56 years.

• 8:40Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 8:41Shawn Ryan?

  56 years we have not gone back. That's just odd to me. That's really odd. But whatever. So you think we did. All right. All right. All right. When do you think we'll be back? Are we going back?

• 8:55Speaker 06

  Well, yes.

• 8:56Shawn Ryan?

  Elon wants to go to Mars.

• 8:57Speaker 06

  Uh huh. We're um, the

• 9:02Speaker 06

  this, the, the plan is two, back to lunar surface and two. And Mars and four.

• 9:09Shawn Ryan?

  Back in two, in two years.

• 9:11Speaker 06

  Yeah. I, I do think that's, you know, that's realistic. Um, like I said, there's, there's a lot of things that need to be solved. Um, and NASA is doing amazing work. Uh, to get us there with the partnerships and collaborations with, with SpaceX and other organizations. Um,

• 9:31Speaker 06

  uh, but we got to figure out how it's going to be done and done safely. Cause it's like with our mission, it was, it was a no fail. Otherwise, we're going to set back these programs years if something catastrophic happens.

• 9:43Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 9:44Speaker 06

  Um, and the public's not willing, you know, the risk we took back in the day, you know, the 50s and 60s was a lot.

• 9:52Speaker 06

  Lots, uh, lot more significant than we're willing to accept these days. And, you know, we're, we're kind of risk averse and can be a positive and a negative, you know, to some extent, because it can be paralysis through analysis.

• 10:05Shawn Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 10:05Speaker 06

  At some point, we gotta put up, shut up and go. Um.

• 10:11Shawn Ryan?

  It seems like civilian, uh, space exploration is like.

• 10:19Shawn Ryan?

  Really going, it becoming a lot more advanced than NASA. It's, it's, it's almost seems like it's, it's well beyond what NASA can do. Am I, am I off on that? I mean, isn't SpaceX going up to rescue the NASA guys that have been stuck in space for like eight months?

• 10:41Speaker 06

  You're starting off with the tricky ones.

• 10:45Speaker 06

  Um, it's a, it's a partnership for sure. Um, NASA's, they did this for 11, they've been doing it for decades, 60 plus years, whatever it's been. It's, um, uh, and we typically always want to make sure that we never lose sight of, of these accomplishments. You know, we're standing on the shoulders of giants of what they've been able to accomplish. And we, meaning commercial space collectively, would not be where we're at without everything they've been able to accomplish. And moving forward, it is definitely a partnership.

• 11:19Shawn Ryan?

  Is it a one-way partnership or is it a two-way? I mean, the government isn't great at, you know, sharing. I'm just, I'm just, you know, is it really?

• 11:28Speaker 06

  I think it's two-way. I mean, just look at our program. You know, we did the first commercial spacewalk. To do that, we, SpaceX wanted to develop a brand new EVA suit, Extravehicular Activity, do a spacewalk. And that's never been done in over 40 years. The, the NASA has the EMU suit that they currently use. SpaceX is going to figure it out on their own. So they took their baseline suit, the IVA suit, the one they currently wear to and from the space station. And a very, you know, less than three years, two and a half year, um, time span, took that suit and developed the, the, what we wore, which is more or less the prototype EVA suit. Now,

• 12:09Speaker 06

  To do that on a very streamlined budget, not a, you know, a multi-billion dollar program. You know, they, they monster garage this thing to develop a suit that is extremely viable and, and will be, you know, the, the baseline going forward as far as what they're going to develop regarding a suit with humans bouncing on the, the surface of the moon and, and Mars in, in capacity, not a handful of suits like, like NASA has. This is, the concept is, you know, these starships are going to launch hundreds of passengers. Um, you know, Elon's vision, he stated in the past, three of these a day with, full of passengers going either

• 12:54Speaker 06

  to the low, low Earth orbit, to a station, to the moon, to Mars. You know, it's sci-fi, but, but that's what we're accomplishing and that's what SpaceX is accomplishing and other organizations are accomplishing. Cause I, you know, when I got involved with this program years ago, um, I didn't really understand the, the concept of boosters landing on their own, chopsticks, catching boosters, reusability. I'm like, there's no way. This is like, this is far-fetched, but look at us. I mean, tonight, test eight is launching in starship. And each time they launch, they're learning new things. You know, it, it might not land successfully

• 13:36Speaker 06

  in the ocean, Indian Ocean, but, um, it certainly well could. Um, and they're going to catch the booster with the chopsticks. And this is just a next step to achieve that ultimate goal of, of multiple launches daily, going to the moon, going Mars.

• 13:52Shawn Ryan?

  Why, why do you think the, why do we want to bring hundreds of passengers into space?

• 14:00Speaker 06

  Why not? I mean,

• 14:03Speaker 06

  It depends on who you ask, on what you believe and, you know, justifying these significant projects and programs, but, you know, we certainly aren't good stewards of our planet. We haven't been. Whether you want to call this an insurance policy, or you want to go down the curiosity route of let's explore, because who knows what's out there?

• 14:31Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:32Speaker 06

  And are those resources that we could capitalize on? You know, the population issues, the climate issues, you know, when is it going to make a turn for the worst in asteroid?

• 14:46Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:47Speaker 06

  You know, they're talking about 2024, whatever asteroid name they have, it's supposed to, you know, a probability of five, six percent, and by 2032, don't quote me on these numbers, but that's catastrophic to certain parts of the planet. So, again, it's like, if we have the opportunity and the resources and the intellect to pursue some of these goals, why not?

• 15:17Shawn Ryan?

  Hey, I'm not against it. I'm just, I'm just, I don't have anybody to talk to this stuff about that's been up there. So, I think it's just a fascinating subject. I mean, we haven't, we haven't found any water or anything on Mars, have we?

• 15:30Speaker 06

  Or frozen?

• 15:33Shawn Ryan?

  We found frozen water or anything on Mars?

• 15:36Speaker 06

  I don't know.

• 15:37Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just, it's interesting. I mean, how would we sustain there with no, nothing? We don't know, we don't really know anything. Do we know anything?

• 16:25Speaker 07

  Stop it. This is about vacation inflation and how Priceline negotiates amazing deals on hotels, flights, and rental cars. Yeah, but I didn't mention that you can save up to 60% off hotels in the Priceline app. Fine. No one deals more deals than...

• 16:43Speaker 07

  Please stop. Touche. Priceline.

• 16:48Shawn Ryan?

  Got a couple of robots running around there, but I mean...

• 16:50Speaker 06

  Just landed on the moon with another robot company.

• 16:55Speaker 06

  So they're, uh, they're trying. I mean, it's all about exploration. We did it

• 17:01Speaker 06

  decades ago with exploring countries and across oceans, so it's not too much far off that.

• 17:07Shawn Ryan?

  Have we found anything significant that would help sustain human life on the moon or Mars that you're aware of?

• 17:13Speaker 06

  Not that I'm aware of. I mean, it's gonna rely upon innovative technologies to figure out how we, you know, because it can't be a one, in my opinion, this can't be a one-way mission to Mars.

• 17:27Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 17:28Speaker 06

  And it's eight months to get there, and it's eight months home, and however long you need to do, do the mission on the surface.

• 17:36Shawn Ryan?

  Eight months? It's eight months?

• 17:38Speaker 06

  Yeah, I think that's...

• 17:39Shawn Ryan?

  It's a long car ride, buddy.

• 17:40Speaker 06

  Long car ride.

• 17:43Speaker 06

  Well, the volume of these vehicles are pretty big. It's a lot bigger than what we lived in, which is a lot bigger than, you know, what they went to the moon in.

• 17:53Shawn Ryan?

  How long did it take them to get to the moon?

• 17:56Speaker 06

  I think it was two and a half, four days, a couple of days.

• 18:01Speaker 06

  Traveling 25,000 miles an hour to escape gravitational pull.

• 18:06Shawn Ryan?

  Damn. Damn. All right. We'll move on. This is from Brian. How did you get your callsign when you got named at your first squadron? And during your time flying the F-16, did you ever fly any CAS missions supporting JTACs on the ground?

• 18:24Speaker 06

  Love the JTACs. That was my favorite mission, was working with the, with you guys, SEALs, three-letter identifiers. Those were the best missions, because you're, you're supporting your brothers and sisters on the, on the ground doing the mission.

• 18:43Speaker 06

  So to answer the second question, yes, I did a lot of CAS. I flew the F-16 for 20 years and it's a multi-role platform. So you do air-to-air and you know, it's the jack of all trades, master of none. So you're constantly dabbling in all these different modalities and mission sets. But the reason why I chose the F-16 was for the inter-ground missions and specifically the CAS. In fact, my last assignment was Aviano Air Base in Italy. We deployed to Afghanistan doing Resolute Support and Freedom Sentinel, doing counterterrorism missions, dropping bombs and working with you guys and other agencies.

• 19:25Speaker 06

  And that was by far the highlight of my career. What year was that? That was 15. So it was kind of the height of ISIS. There wasn't much of that presence. It was more Al Qaeda, but we were just, you know, working our way up the chain, looking for high-value targets, trying to beat out the Predators. Because that was when the Predator was kind of making its big push on unemployment. Very, very accurate platform. In fact, when I went through weapons school, Top Gun School, that was the focus of my thesis was integrating CAS missions with F-16s and Predator. That's a long story.

• 20:09Speaker 06

  But to answer his question, yeah, a lot of missions with JTACs, controllers, doing CAS. Call sign. Call sign. So it's KID, it's K-I-D-D, two D's. When you go through your career, it's usually something you F-up, you screw up, or play off your name. So I got call signs like Pooter, which kind of play off Poteet. Um, I had Biff for a while, then I had money. Um, the movie swingers back in the nineties. Uh, and then I ended up getting married, so I was no longer money. I was kind of a small change.

• 20:52Shawn Ryan?

  You weren't a swinger anymore?

• 20:55Speaker 06

  Was never a swinger, okay?

• 20:57Shawn Ryan?

  That's a

• 20:57Speaker 06

  Clarification.

• 21:01Speaker 06

  But I lost the call sign money and then, um, I got named kid and, and every fighter squadron, how you get your call sign, it's the naming ceremony is, is always different. And I was in the triple nickel, five fifty fifth fighter squadron, very historic, Robin Oles from the Vietnam War, the best fighter squadron in the, in the air force. How we did the ceremony is you're kicked out so they can talk about you. Just, um, usually it's a drink fest. Um, so you don't really hear the reasons why you get named until you, you get brought back into the ceremony.

• 21:39Speaker 06

  And they've selected a couple of different stories of why. There's usually one that's PG, that's, uh, releasable. And then there's another reason why. So the releasable story is that kid, I looked young back in the day. My first name is actually William. So Billy, the kid, there was already kid in the sister squad in the five tenth, the buzzards. Um, but he was K I D. So they added a, an extra D. And there's, there's other reasons why it ended up being kid. That, uh, unfortunate

• 22:11Shawn Ryan?

  Come on.

• 22:15Shawn Ryan?

  Come on.

• 22:16Speaker 06

  This was, uh, this was J D, Jack Daniels. I might be able to.

• 22:20Shawn Ryan?

  Well, we got, we got plenty of

• 22:24Shawn Ryan?

  All right, all right. I won't pressure, but all right. So let's move into the life story here. So I know you, you were born here in Chattanooga, Tennessee.

• 22:34Speaker 06

  Chattanooga.

• 22:35Shawn Ryan?

  When did you, when did you move to New Hampshire?

• 22:38Speaker 06

  So I was born in seventy three, fifty one.

• 22:42Speaker 06

  We're born in Chattanooga, but I was actually, I lived five years just across the border, uh, north, Deep Woods, Georgia. Um, middle to low income fam.

• 22:53Speaker 06

  Lot of connections with Fort Oglethorpe, Chickamauga Park, kind of the, my uncle had a, a double wide. And, uh, half the trailer was a private collection. I think he had one of the largest private collections of Civil War artifacts. I just remember as a kid rummaging into, you know, his collection. There's really cool stuff like bullets with teeth marks, ceramic bullets from amputations, biting the bullet, the whole concept. So, and those are some of my memories as a, as a kid. But when I was five, we, we moved. My dad was, um, worked for a company called Combustion Engineering.

• 23:34Speaker 06

  He worked there for 50 years, worked up from janitor all the way up to a manager. But he got transferred up to, um, New Hampshire Seacoast. So we moved to a town called Durham. And pretty much started grade school in the town of Durham. Actually went grade school, elementary, middle school, high school, and college, all in the same town. Really? But stayed there all the way. What were you into as a kid? What's that? What were you into? Sports. Sports? I was very competitive, obsessively competitive, um, eighties. So I was big into like, um,

• 24:13Speaker 06

  the Celtics, the Red Sox. We would always go to games, um, uh, Patriots, uh, as well as, uh, the Bruins. Um, but it was, it was obsessive to the point of, you know, I would, uh, sacrifice all my friends and foes to get to the front of the line for whatever, you know, lining up for class. And it ended up, you know, parent teacher conferences, trying to figure out ways to kind of channel that gladiator attitude I had. A little bit of bribery. I kind of was able to figure out how to channel it to something a little more, um, productive, which became sports. So, sun up to sundown. Um, back in the day when

• 24:53Speaker 06

  you actually could stay out past sunset as a kid, riding your bike and just looking for my next contest of how to compete. And, um, that was my childhood and it became. You have siblings? Older brother, year and a half older. Um, great relationship. Um, family was a little bit, um, I would say maybe unemotional, um, kind of kept to ourselves.

• 25:23Speaker 06

  But I would spend my time just roaming, looking for, looking for trouble. What sports? Um, I played everything. Um, baseball, soccer, basketball was big throughout my life. I got a job at the golf course, so I, I picked up golf.

• 25:45Speaker 06

  Started, um, was a good golfer. I played on the high school team as, as a middle schooler, but then they cut the team. So I had to figure out another sport, which became running. So I actually got involved, um, in running pretty early on and that became my focus. Um, I wanted basketball to be it, you know, Larry Bird back in the Celtics era in the eighties was a big deal. So, um, but I was a realist, you know, five foot nine inches tall. I knew it wasn't, you know, a, a likelihood of, it wasn't in the cards, playing at the next level in college. Um, terrible, terrible student, Cs and Ds across the board. Really?

• 26:25Speaker 06

  Yeah. I couldn't, um, I couldn't focus, um, before all the diagnosis, um, but I just couldn't pay attention. I was really good at setting athletic goals and succeeding on the, you know, pitch, the field, the diamond, the, the track, but I could not apply those same strategies in the classroom. And it was, by the time I got to high school, I'm like, all right, I, I'm not going to college if I don't figure out a path. And, and for me, it was like, okay, I'm okay at sports. Let me see if I can leverage those talents and, and use that as a path, you know, to getting to college.

• 27:05Speaker 06

  So that's when I focused on running, um, ended up winning the state championship race my junior year. And it was, it was kind of that performance and, and my dedication to the sport that, that got me recruited to run division one at, um, at University of New Hampshire. I applied to UNH, that school and, uh, University of Tennessee at Knoxville. Um, and that was it. And, and I got recruited and, and I only got in because of the coach.

• 27:35Speaker 06

  So plan worked. So plan worked, thankfully. But even the college, man, academics was, it's just the traditional education method is not my, my jam. Yeah. You know, sit through class, pay attention, take notes, memorize, regurgitate it in an exam that you may or may not use this information in your life. Mm hmm. Um, so that's kind of where I found a, a different option. What, what was your major? What did you? It's called outdoor education. What is that? So it's, um, it's, um, education through experiential learning. So how that is, is

• 28:18Speaker 06

  different is that you're, you're taught a basic skill set. So, um, all my classes were like, um, scuba diving, rock climbing, winter mountaineering, whitewater rafting, Nordic skiing. You can get it. Advanced backpacking. I actually had an advanced backpacking class. Damn. Um, and you would go and you would be taught some basic skills, but you immediately go out into the field and you apply these and you learn in the field. And, um, it was only by happenstance, um, that I came across my buddy of mine brought me to class one day. In fact, I remember it was, um, I signed up for ROTC, another kind of a serendipitous moment that I had, um, joining ROTC, but I was already signed up and I'm in full service

• 29:03Speaker 06

  dress. Um, and it's middle of the winter, three feet of snow on the ground. And, and he's like, hey, come with me to one of my outdoor education classes. I'm like, okay. I'm very impulsive. So I'm like, all right, let's do this. So go to class and it's in a gymnasium. It's not in a normal classroom. And there are students in, in the back of the class in the storage locker is going through all this gear. And I'm in my full services hand me down polyester uniform, a big trench coat, you know, cheap patent leather shoes and stand out like a sore thumb, um.

• 29:37Speaker 06

  And I, we walk up to the class and the teacher starts talking and he's like, alright, this is advanced winter backpacking and we're going to build a Quincy in the snow for the next three hours. And I'm like, I'm not dressed for this and I don't know if this is gonna work out. Well, come to find out, my, my teacher is a Navy SEAL. He was, he was a Navy SEAL for 20 years. And he takes us out back and we start building this Quincy. And for those who are unfamiliar, Quincy is like an igloo. But instead of blocks, you know, you, you build, you dig down to the surface, you pile a bunch of snow up, you let it set. Once it's set into a big old dome, you kind of dig a little entrance. Once you get inside, you

• 30:20Speaker 06

  dig all around, you leave about four to six inches for a wall. Take a little, once you dug it all out, you take a little propane stove, you light it, you glaze, heat up the inside, it glaze over. And now you have this impenetrable structure, this winter shelter. And you get, you know, 12, 15 people to stand on top of the structure. It's only four to six inches and it, it, it holds the weight. And now it's like 20, 30 degrees warmer inside this igloo, this Quincy. And man, I have a blast. I am soaking wet. I'm just on my hands and knees digging this structure and he's giving all these life lessons, talking about combat and cause he's, you know, I'm wearing this uniform and it was just like

• 31:01Speaker 06

  this profound experience. And I'm like, this is the way I can get an education, earn a degree, so I can go in the military. Because I didn't think, you know, I've got three and a half years left to get a degree in order to go into the military. Cause I'm the ROTC program. And I'm like, my grades aren't cutting it right now, but you know, this is something.

• 31:24Shawn Ryan?

  Why did you pick ROTC? What, what caught your interest in that anyways?

• 31:28Speaker 06

  Um, so, I was walking a class freshman year, fall semester, one day and, and this flyer on a bulletin board caught my eye and it was a picture of a fighter jet. It was just an advertisement encouraging students to come experience the Air Force way of life. Sign up to be a passenger aboard a KC-135 air refueling aircraft at the local Air National Guard unit out of Portsmouth, New Hampshire. P's used to be an Air Force Base, Strat Comm. They launched F-111s on alert there. It was actually an alternate landing site for the Space Shuttle back in the Shuttle program. Heated runway, 13,000

• 32:10Speaker 06

  feet long. Anyways, they have a guard unit there, KC-135s. Now it's the KC-46, the replacement refueller in the, in the Air Force. And I'm impulsive. I sign up, you know, and when I signed up, I, I didn't fully grasp the consequences of my actions because here's a couple of secrets about myself. It's probably going to jeopardize credibility. Extremely prone to motion sickness. Always have been, always will be. I, you stick me in Uber, 15 minutes long, I'm, I'm done. Are you kidding me? Yeah, I still get nauseous. Scared of heights. I hate heights. Me too.

• 32:55Speaker 06

  Actually, Afghanistan, they took us up in a helicopter. I was a command position. And the, the PJs took me up in a helicopter and they knew I was scared of heights. And doors open up at like 14,000 feet, man, it freaked the shit out of me. Anyways, so, and I'd never flown an aircraft before in my life at 18 years old. We didn't have the money to go anywhere. But um, here's my chance. I'm going to sign up and I'm going to go. So I command, I sign up and bus takes us, big old school bus drops us off at the plane and we board this aircraft and I take my seat and again, I'd never been in an aircraft

• 33:36Speaker 06

  and it's, it's hot, it's dark, there's no windows and this gutted plane, couple of seats up front and I start to panic. I'm like, I start sweating, I get, you know, I get, heart rate goes up, breathing shallow. I'm like, I don't want to do this. How do I get out? And but there's a couple of cute girls next to me. I'm, I can't back out now. I gotta, I gotta man up. And so air crew comes out and briefs us on what we can anticipate and they're like, all right, we're going to start off with some low approaches, do some training. I'm like, I have no idea what that is, but let's do this. And we'll go out to the airspace and refuel

• 34:16Speaker 06

  some F-16s. And so, close the door and take off and they immediately level off and they come back around and they land and take off again. 20 minutes into this flight, I just lose my lunch. I'm puking. It's like a scene out of Alien. It's just, it's bad. And I pass out. Two hours later, crew chief wakes me up, says, hey, son, come with me. Walks me back to the, the observation where they do the refueling. The boom operator sits back there. And I'm like, working my way up there, just trying not to puke on anyone or anything. And he takes a seat, starts doing his, his pre-fueling checks and trying to distract me. And I take

• 34:59Speaker 06

  the observation seat next to him. And he's like, all right, there's, there's two fighters on the horizon. They're about to reform. I pull up to within a couple of feet of our window. And man, it's like a scene out of Top Gun. There's a fighter pilot, he's wearing his helmet, his mask, he's, you know, he's giving me little shock eyes. And boom, plugs the aircraft and we start communicating. He's asking questions. He's telling us about his mission. And I'm just like, that is awesome. You know, I, that was the little spark. Everyone's got their motivation. But that was the, the fire that was lit within me. And I completely forgot about the last two hours. I just, I wanted to be a fighter pilot. I didn't care what it took. I knew I had a lot of challenges in front of me. But I had to figure out how

• 35:43Speaker 06

  to, how to get in that cockpit. Nice. And then I figured out the education piece with outdoor education. Wow, wow. So, I mean,

• 36:00Shawn Ryan?

  But there's gotta be a lot of studying to be a pilot and an astronaut. And so, I mean,

• 36:09Shawn Ryan?

  I would imagine there's a lot.

• 36:11Speaker 06

  Got him fooled.

• 36:12Shawn Ryan?

  So, so let's, but let's move on. So you graduate college, then what?

• 36:18Speaker 06

  Um, I did pretty well in ROTC. Anything active, I do pretty good at.

• 36:25Speaker 06

  So I was, or if I have interest in it. So I was a pretty good cadet. I graduate, distinguished graduate, and I get selected for a program called Euro-NATO Joint Jet Pilot Training, ENJET. And it's a specified pilot training program out of Shepard Air Force Base, Wichita Falls. And it's, all the NATO countries participate. They send instructors and students who are gonna be flying fighter jets. So it's specific to flying a fighter aircraft. Whereas the other pilot training bases, there's two tracks. Well, there's three if you count helos. Um, everyone starts off on the same platform. It's a T6 now. I flew a T-37.

• 37:08Speaker 06

  Just a side-by-side little dog whistle, loud jet trainer. Uh, fully aerobatic. The G onset rate in those aircrafts are, ugh. I get chills every time I think about my first year of pilot training because I would puke almost every single flight. Um, and at the six year, or the six month point, uh, for those other bases, you split. You go, if you go the heavy track, you're gonna go fly a C-17, C-130, C-5, you're gonna go, um, to the T-1, Learjet looking aircraft. If you're gonna go fly fighters or bombers, you go to the T-38.

• 37:48Speaker 06

  Well, this program that I went to, there's only one track. You go from T-37 to T-38s and, and you go in the fighter. What you end up with after pilot training, which is, you know, that's a whole other story as far as what is required, but it's somewhere around two to two and a half years to get through the training process. It's needs of the Air Force. Everything stratified, probably feels very similar. It's stratifications. So you're performing number one, two, three, four, all the way down to whatever your class has. And when it comes time for your assignment night, it's like, all right, the Air Force

• 38:25Speaker 06

  needs two F-16 pilots, four F-15Cs, this many F-15Es, A-10s, and you just go down the list and you pick.

• 38:37Shawn Ryan?

  So first, uh, first and first ranked student gets to pick whatever they want. And then it just goes on from there.

• 38:45Speaker 06

  Now it's like F-22s, F-35s. So back to your question, I went to Shepard Air Force Base and I did this program and I was about there two and a, or a year and a half to get through the training there. And then you go off and do supplemental training, depending on what aircraft and survival training, centrifuge, and then you do all these top off qualifications before you actually get to combat operations, operational assignments, which is at that two and a half year point.

• 39:18Shawn Ryan?

  So, hold on, let's backtrack. So pilot training is how long to get to pick what you're going to fly?

• 39:26Speaker 06

  The actual training is a year, but there are certain elements or milestones you have to accomplish, like survival training. You might go before you even start pilot training, or it might be something in the middle, or it might be something at the very end. Centrifuge is something you have to go through because you're going to start flying higher performance aircrafts that can, that you need to qualify yourself in these certain profiles, pulling Gs, because some people have a really difficult time. If you don't understand the G-string maneuver, it's just some people aren't physiologically cut out for, for pulling some of those high performance G profiles that you'll experience

• 40:11Speaker 06

  in a fighter jet.

• 40:14Speaker 06

  So the training is actually a year, it's about a year and a half, but then there's an extra six months you'll you'll have you have to go through to learn how to fly an F-16 or an F-22 or an F-35. So I was there a year and a half.

• 40:29Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 40:29Speaker 06

  Before I went off to my base to learn how to fly the F-16.

• 40:34Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 40:35Speaker 06

  And it was, it was a miserable experience for me.

• 40:39Shawn Ryan?

  Flying the S F-16?

• 40:41Speaker 06

  No, pilot training.

• 40:42Shawn Ryan?

  Why?

• 40:43Speaker 06

  Um, motion sickness, academics.

• 40:47Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, how did you get through the, how did you get through the academics? I mean, I, I thought I was gonna be a pilot just as a, you know, as a hobby. I was like, oh, this might be kinda cool. And then I looked at all the shit I had to study and I was like, fuck that, I'm not doing it.

• 41:03Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 41:04Shawn Ryan?

  It's like, ground school? No, not doing it. But, so I mean, how, how did you, it sounds like you were horrible.

• 41:12Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:13Shawn Ryan?

  Horrible student.

• 41:14Speaker 06

  I, I, man, I, I was challenged then, I was challenged F-16s, I was challenged weapon school, I was challenged space, and it was, it's more my hard-headed mindset. Um, because if I apply myself, I think I could, um, do okay.

• 41:35Shawn Ryan?

  You have to have a drive.

• 41:37Speaker 06

  You do.

• 41:38Shawn Ryan?

  You have to have a drive, like you really want that end goal, and that's, that's the only way you're able to, to concentrate and get through the shit that you don't wanna do. Like, study.

• 41:48Speaker 06

  And pilot training, even looking back, I'm like, well, I went to weapon school and I went through space, that pilot training was nothing compared to what I went through later. Um, but at the time, I'm coming off outdoor education, four years of scuba diving, rock climbing, mountaineering. I mean, my final exam in Nordic skiing was five days in Vermont doing Nordic skiing. As long as you didn't get a cold weather injury, you got an A. We were in bed, breakfast, and a hot tub in the afternoon, and skiing all day long. Um, little hidden secret. But now I go to pilot training and, and the expectation is, dude, this is, this is a big boy program, you know?

• 42:33Speaker 06

  And oh, by the way, I went right after graduation because I just, I was gung ho. I just want to get, get going. So I literally graduate, three days later, I'm on the road moving to Tennessee, or to Texas. And my classmates were all top graduates at the Air Force Academy. So they're coming off aerospace engineering, astrophysics, you know, that's one of the premier academic programs in the country. And, oh, by the way, these are the top graduates. So this is who I'm competing against, you know, in that stratification. And it was, it was a steep, steep learning curve. Yeah, I bet.

• 43:13Speaker 00

  Mr. President, my company tore me of the explosion on our rig on October 2nd, causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me. Tom Cruise is.

• 43:24Speaker 02

  Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and the Revenant.

• 43:30Speaker 03

  What would happen if I stopped moving? You stall, you freeze to death, that's what.

• 43:35Speaker 01

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 43:38Speaker 03

  I'm not the first then.

• 43:39Speaker 01

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17 and out of mid without parent.

• 43:44Speaker 08

  Priceline Negotiator.

• 43:46Speaker 07

  It's me, the.

• 43:47Speaker 08

  Priceline Negotiator.

• 43:49Speaker 07

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• 43:51Speaker 08

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• 43:52Speaker 07

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• 43:59Speaker 08

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• 44:01Speaker 07

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• 44:06Speaker 08

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• 44:07Speaker 07

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• 44:09Speaker 08

  Priceline.

• 44:10Speaker 07

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• 44:11Speaker 08

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• 44:12Speaker 07

  Touche.

• 44:13Speaker 08

  Priceline.

• 44:14Speaker 06

  Thankfully, there's the, the flying piece. You know, you got to ply yourself in, in the actual stick and rudder coordination piece. But there is the, the academic piece. You got to prove yourself there before they're going to put you in a cockpit. And we had these things, and I still have nightmares about them. It's, um, stand-up. And it's like, there's boldface, like, you have to memorize certain emergency procedures for, that's specific to the aircraft. And it's like, almost a haze where. You know, in the morning, you have stand up and you gotta, they'll call on you, they'll randomly select, alright kid, back then, I don't remember what, Pooter, stand up. Alright, this is your scenario. You got your aircraft and you know, you have an engine failure. And you're this far away and at this parameters and it's just, you're in the hot seat.

• 44:59Speaker 06

  And you gotta verbatim, give the procedures and then all the amplifying systems knowledge and it's just to prove and test your, your level of competency. And that was my nemesis. You know, and if you don't do well enough, you know, Pooter, sit down. Next guy. And you don't get to fly that day. You're grounded. Until you have some remedial training. I was notorious. Alright, Pooter, your second chance. No shit. Dude, you suck. Sit down. How did you overcome the motion sickness? Um, it took a long, long time. A lot of driving.

• 45:40Speaker 06

  I actually had to hide it from my instructors. I would, thankfully, the, the thirty-eight is, is, you know, is that tandem? Um, you know, it's front back. Yeah. And you're separated. Where the thirty-seven was next, next to each other. You see exactly what's going on in, in the cockpit, but in thirty-eight, you're in front. But, um, I would have to puke and swallow. I would literally puke in my mask and just suck it up. Because you get to a certain point where, um, you know, depending on what your issue is. You would just puke in your mask? Yeah. This might be TMI, but. No, I'm, I'm like. Sometimes. Where does it go?

• 46:22Speaker 06

  If, if you can, you can hold it long enough. You can either, and my recommendation is if. How do you concentrate flying a jet while, while trying, like, trying like hell to hold vomit down? If, if you do have to. My recommendation is always eat something you don't mind eating again. Bananas. Yeah. It's a good choice.

• 46:47Speaker 06

  I remember one time my first

• 46:48Shawn Ryan?

  So you would, you would puke and then swallow it again?

• 46:51Speaker 06

  Hmm, you just gotta fight through it.

• 46:53Shawn Ryan?

  And then what would happen again?

• 46:55Speaker 06

  He was Norwegian and he hardcore dude, loved to party. Um, drove this old 1980s Cadillac with a big old steer horns on the, on the hood, hood ornament. He was awesome. Um, he was sympathetic to my cause. So he would know, cause I'd be doing this heaving going on and I'm trying to fly this aircraft and pay attention. Uh, especially the aerobatics, once you got to the airspace. But my first flight in a 38, I thought I was over it. You know, six months, all right, it's getting a little better, getting a little better. Because eventually you get to a point where like they stick you in the barony chair, you know, to force it out of you. Try to just break your will. Um, none of that was working for me.

• 47:38Speaker 06

  And I would just hide it via techniques already talked about. But, um, my first flight in a 38, man, it, it came on so quick. It just, it came out of my mouse mask and all over my visor. And I, I'm like doing this windshield wiper, trying to clear my visor. Cause my, my, my pilot's in the back. And, uh, you know, I suffered through a sub below, well below average execution on my dollar ride, my first flight. I think I made it, I think I made it. And he climbs out of it and he climbs up to my, into my cockpit and looking around and he goes, not a chance. Cause there's puke all over the dashboard of this, uh,

• 48:20Speaker 06

  so I didn't pass that ride. Um.

• 48:23Shawn Ryan?

  So hold on, does it go, is it like an initial, is it initial, an initial motion sickness? And then you puke and then it's gone for the rest of the flight? Or is it like the whole thing?

• 48:33Speaker 06

  It ebbs and flows. Um, you know, you get a little bit better.

• 48:37Shawn Ryan?

  Sickness, like you're just, you're in it. Shit.

• 48:41Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 48:42Shawn Ryan?

  And you still, and you still wanted to be a pilot?

• 48:45Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 48:45Shawn Ryan?

  Holy shit.

• 48:47Speaker 06

  Yeah, I was, I was determined. I stubborn, strong willed ego. Uh, and I don't know what it was, but I'm like, I have, I can't fail. This is, I gotta figure it out. Cause there's one kid, um, in my class that left. He just, I'm done. I gotta tap it out. I'm out. Um, but I just, I wanted to figure it out. Um.

• 49:14Speaker 06

  I, you know, you do. I mean, I, I eat a greasy pork sandwich and, and go do aerobatics as long as I'm flying. Stick me in the backseat and someone else is flying.

• 49:24Shawn Ryan?

  So you have overcome it?

• 49:26Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 49:26Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 49:27Speaker 06

  You know, people talk, is it physiological, is it psychological? I think it's a combination of a lot of things. Inner ear. Um, thankfully, space is not, there's no correlation.

• 49:42Speaker 06

  Cause space adaptation syndrome is, impacts 50% of astronauts.

• 49:46Shawn Ryan?

  What is it called?

• 49:47Speaker 06

  Space adaptation syndrome. And it's, cause you, you, and we'll get to it, but like, you experience all these G-forces on the way up.

• 49:55Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:56Speaker 06

  And then it's a long ride. So it's about nine minutes. You're pulling four and a half Gs. And then when that second stage separates, you're thrust forward, you're hanging in your straps and now you're in space floating. And so that transition.

• 50:10Shawn Ryan?

  Oh.

• 50:11Speaker 06

  It can force this cross coupling illusion of tumbling. And it impacts everyone differently. It can be seconds, it can be minutes, it can be long durations of this tumbling. And it's different axes, depending on who you are.

• 50:25Shawn Ryan?

  Do you know if you're gonna get it before you go to space? So it's, it's, it's a big, it's a big surprise.

• 50:32Speaker 06

  And, and puking in space with zero gravity?

• 50:34Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, man.

• 50:36Speaker 06

  You saw the movies, you know, Apollo 13. Um, I was ecstatic. I was on cloud nine. I was on a drug, man. I was so pumped. Once I realized I got to orbit, I'm floating. I get through this tumbling sensation. Cause you're, you're forced to deal with your circumstances. There's no like, I'll suck this up for 30 seconds on a roller coaster or, you know, you find a fighter jet, can you ease off and fly straight and level for a few potatoes? No, you, you are forced to deal with your circumstances. There's no, there's no reset button. And that's, that's very challenging. Um, because that capsule is rotating. You know, it's got to maintain line of sight with satellites for, for communication purposes.

• 51:20Speaker 06

  So it as it's going around, it's rotating. So you look outside and you see the horizon. And that makes sense. This is the top of the capsule and this is the bottom. You come inside, you float around and you look back outside and it's completely opposite. Cause it's and now it's like, whoa. After a while, your body adapts and human body is amazing. You know, I would be, you know, a couple hours into it, I'd be on my um iPad laptop, whatever um iPhone. Doing some science and research, I'd be completely inverted, working, just hanging inverted. When that's the top and that's the bottom, but it just, you lose all reference.

• 52:01Speaker 06

  Um, but back to wow, back to motion sickness. Yeah, I more or less got over it. Um, I still get, especially if someone's shitty driver and hmm hmm hmm.

• 52:14Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 52:16Speaker 06

  Anyways.

• 52:16Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 52:17Speaker 06

  That's well more information than.

• 52:20Shawn Ryan?

  Any other hurdles?

• 52:21Speaker 06

  Um, that was it for pilot training was academics and the and the motion sickness. Fair heights I got over. It's planes are fine. It's structures.

• 52:33Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 52:33Speaker 06

  Ledges.

• 52:35Shawn Ryan?

  I have that too.

• 52:36Speaker 06

  Okay. I figured that.

• 52:38Shawn Ryan?

  I hate, I, I, yeah, yeah. Jump school was not fun for me.

• 52:42Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 52:43Shawn Ryan?

  I fucking hated it.

• 52:44Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 52:44Shawn Ryan?

  Terrified of heights.

• 52:46Speaker 06

  We, we've uh went uh free dive or free, free diving, yeah. Skydiving, um, part of the space training. And jumping out of a plane was.

• 52:56Shawn Ryan?

  Oh shit, you had to do it?

• 52:58Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah. Yeah.

• 53:01Shawn Ryan?

  What got you out the door? The only thing that got me out the door is I didn't want to look like a pussy in front of everybody else.

• 53:07Speaker 06

  That's, that's it. Um, but I had a bum shoulder. This was, so this is the only program, I don't even know if we want to go here, but um. It was with the Air Force Academy. Um, it's the only program in the, in the world that is the first job is free fall and solo.

• 53:26Shawn Ryan?

  What?

• 53:26Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 53:28Shawn Ryan?

  And you're scared to death of heights?

• 53:30Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 53:30Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, man, that's a... I gotta hear this.

• 53:34Speaker 06

  Um, unfortunately, I had hurt my shoulder.

• 53:39Speaker 06

  Years back, dislocated it. And I actually dislocated it in space training, in the capsule.

• 53:47Speaker 06

  In full-on spacesuit. Um, and it's this emergency procedures. It's we got to, we just splashed down in the, you know, in the Pacific Ocean. And now we got to do this emergency egress. So it's, you know, rush, see how quickly we can get out of the capsule.

• 54:04Speaker 06

  So my responsibility is the swimmer on the, with all my Ironmans, was to get out first. And I got to throw the, um, the, the boat, the inflatable boat out in the, the water and pull the cord. And as I'm pulling, completely dislocate my shoulder. And so this was an injury from years prior. So now I have this, I was able to get it back in because these suits, these are expensive suits. And, um, the docs came in and were trying to get my shoulder back in. And, but I'm in this suit. I mean, it's helmet, it's one piece. There's no way you can get up into the shoulder.

• 54:48Speaker 06

  So over time, we were able to finally pop it back in. And that event kind of just let this, like, you know, all stretched out.

• 54:58Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 55:00Speaker 06

  So it was, um, but skydiving didn't help. So I, actually, my first jump, I had to pull with my left hand.

• 55:09Speaker 06

  Worked out fine, but that kind of ended my, uh, my skydiving career until I had surgery post-space.

• 55:18Shawn Ryan?

  Damn. Did you, have you ever, just a random question, you're a diver too, right?

• 55:23Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 55:23Shawn Ryan?

  You had mentioned you did some scuba diving in school. Have you ever been scared of heights underwater? Have you ever come up like you're diving, you're diving on the, the ocean floor and then you hit a ledge?

• 55:37Speaker 06

  No, I don't think I've ever been that deep. Um shoreline and off the Atlantic in the north is pretty shallow.

• 55:46Shawn Ryan?

  I get it. I get it on that.

• 55:47Speaker 06

  Do you really?

• 55:48Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I never thought.

• 55:49Speaker 06

  Looking down?

• 55:50Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I would. I remember diving over a ledge once and I was like, oh shit, let's go back over here. Yeah.

• 55:56Speaker 06

  How deep?

• 55:58Shawn Ryan?

  I don't know how deep it was. I can't remember, but uh I do remember the feeling. Get getting it underwater, which you think you would never get because you have that. You know, it's not like you're gonna fall, but there's that just that look off the ledge where you can't see the bottom of.

• 56:14Speaker 06

  I love watching those freedivers free uh.

• 56:17Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:18Speaker 06

  Holding their breath.

• 56:18Shawn Ryan?

  Breath holds.

• 56:19Speaker 06

  Five, six minute. That's pretty wild.

• 56:22Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. So what, when did you, what, what place did you graduate at? Were you?

• 56:29Speaker 06

  I was.

• 56:32Speaker 06

  It's just, I think I was fourth or fifth out of 12. And then we had some um, some NATO country with uh two Dutch, two Dane, two German.

• 56:46Speaker 06

  So we had a big class, 20 or so. I think I was. Fourth, fifth, sixth, somewhere right around there.

• 56:52Shawn Ryan?

  What's everybody want?

• 56:56Speaker 06

  Honestly, it depends on what you um, what mission you want to do. Cause they all kind of function the same. I mean. Um, well, if you ask a pilot who's flown them, they're they're certainly big dramatic differences.

• 57:11Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, are we talking like F-16 and you know, C-130?

• 57:18Speaker 06

  No, so so my drop, again, Air Force needs my drop had. I want to say four F-15Cs, didn't have any 15Es, which is the two seat. Strike platform. Um, it's the mud hand. It carries a lot of munitions, air to ground mission, but you have a wisdom. You got a a backseater. Um, four, five F-16s, two A-10s. And then it's like, uh, there might be a couple instructor to go right back into pilot training to be an instructor. If you don't end up in a fighter jet that you wanted, it's kind of an option. And then there were some bombers, a B-52, B-1.

• 58:05Speaker 06

  And so when I picked, I had the choice between a 15C and a 16. And I wanted a multi-role platform. I wanted to do air-to-ground. I wanted to do CAS. But I also loved the sexiness of an air-to-air mission. You know, dogfighting and, you know, doing that type of mission. And EF-16 is multi-role. So depending on what base you go to will be the focus of your mission. Like I ended up, first assignment was Korea, then I went to Italy, and then I went to weapon school. But those first Korea was all about interdiction. You know, there's going to be an initial air threat.

• 58:46Speaker 06

  If we ever go to war with North Korea, it's going to be capacity. They're just going to overwhelm you with these teenage MiGs, these old antiquated, you know, third-gen type platforms. No capability and no competency, but they're just going to try to overwhelm the south. Have you ever wound up in a dogfight? No. Damn! No, all simulated. They're very, very rare. You know, back in World War II in Vietnam, since then, it's been a- I figured. It's been a handful. Man, that would be fucking awesome. It would be awesome. But technology these days, it's all about not being seen. Yeah.

• 59:30Speaker 06

  So if you get to a merge, it's because either you screwed up or, you know, you just didn't get the information you needed. Yeah. Yeah. So I ended up in the EF-16 was my choice. Is that what you initially wanted? You wanted the EF-16? I did. And you got it? Yeah. So that- And part of it is about the location as well.

• 59:58Speaker 06

  So you leave prior training with a specific airframe. And then, once you get to that base for training, for me, it was Luke Air Force Base in Phoenix. You spend six months learning how to fly the F-16 to employ it. So now, you've gone from the very basics. Flying instruments, flying formation, just a little bit of aerobatic. That's it. You're competent, you're safe enough, you hopefully won't kill yourself. And now, when you learn how to fly the F-16, you go deeper. You start doing BFM, Basic Five Maneuvers, the dogfighting, one V one. And then, you do TI, Tactical Engagements.

• 1:00:39Speaker 06

  Now, it's working the geometry for a reform to an engagement, a visual engagement. And then, you start adding more and more aircraft. Now, it's ACT, where it's like four V four. And you're actual, you know, you're doing long-range stuff beyond visual range. And if you end up in a visual range, you're competent enough to do the type of dogfighting. And then, you kind of go through this whole air-to-air flow, and then, you've got to focus on the air-to-ground piece. So you start off by going to a range, and you're dropping these little blue bombs for scoring purposes. And you're trying to focus your skill sets on learning the basics of how to employ and fly the aircraft with specific parameters.

• 1:01:23Speaker 06

  So you get comfortable in certain airspeeds and altitudes and ranges, and how the aircraft feels, and you're shooting the gun, a 20-millimeter gun. And then, again, that progresses. Now, you're going to do close air support. You're working with troops in the ground, JTACs and SEALs are calling in, you know, engagements, and you're employing in close proximity to ground forces. How fast, how, what's the fastest you've gone in an F-16? It's Mach 2, 2.05 is roughly... Mach 2, Mach 2 is twice? Two times the speed of sound, and you know, it's roughly 700, for the layman's

• 1:02:07Speaker 06

  explanation, it's around 750 miles an hour. It changes based on pressure, altitude, temperatures, all that. But two times that, so 1,500 miles an hour. Whoa. Um. It's all relative. Hundred miles an hour. It's all relative. I mean, now you talk about, you know, six gen coming online and this,

• 1:02:29Speaker 06

  you know, three, four Mach. It's. And it doesn't really feel intense until you get low on the deck, flying, flying fast, low, because you, you have that ground rush. You know, the trees are going by pretty fast. Um, I would imagine. But there's a lot of restrictions, so you can't break the sound barrier unless you're in a specific restricted airspace, which is few and far between in the U.S. Um, so if you're breaking the sound barrier, it's, you know, above thirty thousand feet, um, or higher. And the sensation isn't there. You just see a little buffet on your, on your dial. Otherwise, it just, you just continue to push. What were you flying in, in regular pilot school?

• 1:03:15Speaker 06

  The, as far as the airframe? Yeah. T thirty seven is the first aircraft, two-seat, two-engine, very low-powered jet. The next aircraft was a T thirty eight. It's the, uh, what do they call it? The MiG twenty, MiG twenty-eight in Top Gun? Mm-hmm. F five. It's this, um, NASA flies them. Um, very stubby wing, sleek, long, uh, um,

• 1:03:43Speaker 06

  airframe, um, twin-engine, very fast. Okay. And then, so you do that for six months apiece, total of a year, and then you go off and, and you fly your platform. Okay, so the speed wasn't, it wasn't anything new to you? No, the T thirty eight, um, I don't know if you did a Mach run. I don't think you did. I don't even know if it could handle it. But most of these, like, older generation fighters, it's like right up to the Mach,

• 1:04:13Speaker 06

  um, all the fourth gen, except for the A ten.

• 1:04:17Speaker 06

  Um, are built to go above Mach. Damn. What's the lowest you've been flying? Altitude? Mach, yeah. Oh.

• 1:04:27Speaker 06

  Hard to get up there. It's you gotta do it in a dive just because the air is thicker down low. Um, you're burning through JPA pretty quick. Couple thousand feet, nothing. I mean, 450, 500 knots, I don't know, five, 600 miles an hour on the deck is, is fun. Um, that's enough. Cause of, you know, shit happens quick when you're going that fast and low. Um, Thunderbirds is we get, we have permission to fly low. Um, you know, 50, 100 feet, pretty, pretty low. Depending on the maneuver we're doing,

• 1:05:12Speaker 06

  the formation that you're flying. So that's where you really get a sensation. Talk about unwavering level of trust. And when you're flying, cause we're flying anywhere from three feet to 18 inches apart. And you're that low. And if you're, if you're in the formation, you're flying, I mean, that aircraft is 18 inches apart. You're Whoa. white knuckles. When you first start, you, you've been flying this aircraft. For me, I'd been flying it for eight, nine years. Very competent in, in flying it. But when you're that close and that level of trust and that precise, it's like white knuckle. You're just death grip. Just over time, you get really comfortable. You're smoking a lucky eating breakfast and you're 18 inches apart. But it's only because you're given

• 1:05:57Speaker 06

  the opportunity to go through intense training. I mean, two, three times the amount of flying that a normal fighter pilot would typically fly in a year. 500 hours versus 150, 180 hours. Wow. Wow. And all you're doing is doing one thing, not CAS and interdiction and OCA and DCA and BFM. Those are fun. But a lot of that is just employing, using the sensors, whereas Thunderbirds, I didn't even turn that shit on.

• 1:06:29Shawn Ryan?

  Gotcha.

• 1:06:30Speaker 06

  It's all about the formation.

• 1:06:32Shawn Ryan?

  So, alright, so let's walk back through, yeah, sorry.

• 1:06:35Speaker 06

  No, it's.

• 1:06:36Shawn Ryan?

  Let's walk back through, so you said OCA and DCA, what is all, what is all that? What are those acronyms?

• 1:06:43Speaker 06

  Offensive counter air, defensive counter air. It's just different mission sets depending on what the scenario is. So, if we're getting invaded by China or Russia and we're protecting DC, we're going to set up caps with, hopefully we, we attack them with other things and ships and,

• 1:07:03Speaker 06

  but kind of the last line of defense is going to be what we have in the air in these caps and, and we're protecting the motherland. And anything comes at us, that's what we're, but the focus is to stay back defensive posture. That's DCA. And then you have different category of missions called OCA, offensive counter air. That might be like an interdiction mission, like, okay, we're going to attack North Korea. We're not. But if we were, there's key targets that we have pre-planned that we want to go blow up. And we're going to send bunker busters, GB24s or whatever, whatever we have these days. Big 200, 2000 pound bombs.

• 1:07:47Speaker 06

  This is OC, this is offensive counter air, interdiction. I'm going to fight my way in, deliver my, you know, my, my munition, turn around and leave. So we are, you know, on an offensive posture.

• 1:08:00Shawn Ryan?

  Gotcha, gotcha.

• 1:08:03Shawn Ryan?

  So what, what, what, what section do you start with in, in school?

• 1:08:07Speaker 06

  Building block, it's baby steps. So you'll start off, okay, can I fly this aircraft? You'll spend, you know, 10, 12 sorties getting comfortable in the aircraft. You'll solo, because there are two seaters.

• 1:08:22Speaker 06

  But it's meant to be a single seat fighter aircraft. That was the other reason why I wanted the F-16 is I wanted to be the sole responsible person involved.

• 1:08:34Speaker 06

  And then you learn, you learn instruments, okay? If the weather's bad, can I recover this aircraft to, you know, at a base that's socked in? So you gotta learn how to fly instruments. Got it, okay. Let's move on, let's start doing tactical stuff. And that's where you'll do, alright, we're gonna fly formation, get comfortable flying formation, because that aircraft is extremely responsive, like, literally, the stick moves like that much. It's all fly by wire. And throttle, obviously, moves a lot more, but versus like a P-51, or a F-4, or an A4, that stick moves a lot, it's hydraulics. So flying formation, it doesn't take much. Honestly, it's like this thought process.

• 1:09:19Speaker 06

  You, you think about it, and it, subconsciously, you start doing it. So you, you over-correct in the beginning. You just, hmm, that's where the nausea comes in, it's just you porpoise. Because it's, it's out of equilibrium, because that, what makes it such a high-performance aircraft, is that it's, it's not a stable platform. So you're constantly looking for that, that sweet spot when you fly. After a while, it becomes second nature. Now you're worried about, oh, shit between your legs, the radars, and the targeting pods, and the situation display, and the cueing systems, all that kind of stuff. That's the focus. Second nature, the flying is, you know, you don't even think about it.

• 1:10:01Shawn Ryan?

  You get used to certain planes?

• 1:10:03Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:10:04Shawn Ryan?

  You do?

• 1:10:05Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:10:05Shawn Ryan?

  Okay, so when you deploy, I mean, I'm getting a little ahead of myself, but, I mean, so you really know the, the plane?

• 1:10:12Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm. You do.

• 1:10:14Shawn Ryan?

  And if you jump in another one, you, you notice differences?

• 1:10:18Speaker 06

  Yeah, everything's set up differently, and, and how you flip certain switches, and they all kind of have an intuitive, um, infrastructure, that you could easily learn one system to the next.

• 1:10:32Shawn Ryan?

  I don't mean like an F-16 to an F-15, I mean, like, like, can you?

• 1:10:39Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, it's your plane. It's like a, I don't know, it's like if you put somebody else's baseball glove on, it's still a baseball glove, but it's not your baseball glove. You know what I mean?

• 1:10:48Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:10:49Shawn Ryan?

  Is it? Do you know?

• 1:10:50Speaker 06

  If you're alluding to-

• 1:10:51Shawn Ryan?

  You jump into another F-16, is it the exact same or?

• 1:10:55Speaker 06

  Um.

• 1:10:55Shawn Ryan?

  Or is it yours?

• 1:10:57Speaker 06

  So you have-

• 1:10:58Shawn Ryan?

  Like a rifle, like I have my rifle set up the way I like my rifle set up as a SEAL.

• 1:11:03Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:11:03Shawn Ryan?

  And but if I have somebody else's rifle, I'm like, oh shit, I don't like. I can use it and I can be extremely effective with it, but I'm, I would rather have mine.

• 1:11:13Speaker 06

  Yeah. Um.

• 1:11:14Shawn Ryan?

  It feels different.

• 1:11:15Speaker 06

  That sounds like a Full Metal Jacket quote.

• 1:11:18Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I mean, you know what I'm saying though.

• 1:11:19Speaker 06

  My rifle, this is my, this is like a-

• 1:11:21Shawn Ryan?

  I said, I know my trigger pull. I know, I know everything about it, you know?

• 1:11:26Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:11:26Shawn Ryan?

  And.

• 1:11:27Speaker 06

  So you have your name on one aircraft.

• 1:11:28Shawn Ryan?

  And you have your confidence and your rifle, like you zeroed it, you set it up the way you like it set up.

• 1:11:34Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:11:34Shawn Ryan?

  You know, all that kind of shit. If you have somebody else's, you lose that, you know, shit, is this thing sighted in? Is it sighted into me? I don't know.

• 1:11:44Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:11:44Shawn Ryan?

  Is it like that with the planes?

• 1:11:46Speaker 06

  Um. To a certain extent. So you have your name on an aircraft and you have a dedicated crew chief. And he's got his name on, on his or her name on, on the other side. Um. And you typically try to fly that tail, but the maintenance of these airframes, it could be down for months going through phase. They pull the panels off and they, you know, all this is broken, we gotta fix it. So. It's constantly, the inventory is being moved around. So. You know, you might fly your tail maybe thirty, forty, forty percent of the time. That's probably a little aggressive. Um. Except for when I was in the Thunderbirds. You fly so much and you're so-

• 1:12:29Speaker 06

  queued into that aircraft, you know exactly how it's bent. And you know how to trim up the aircraft because you know you can't. Different airspeeds, it's going to fly differently and it's going to lean one direction or the other. So you know exactly how much input you need on the trim to kind of level it out. And you know, on certain maneuvers, when you get to the top, you know, you're 18 inches apart. We're doing this, this arrowhead maneuver where I am, I move up. I was slot, so I was number four, so I was behind number one. So I'm anywhere from three feet to 18 inches, but in the arrowhead, I actually slide up and in.

• 1:13:08Speaker 06

  So I get even closer and it's literally as close as this mic is the nozzle. The afterburner nozzle of the, um, of the boss, my, the number one aircraft. And when you get up on the top of a loop, you're, you're like 150, 175 knots. So it's, it's mushy. It's not responsive like an aircraft would be on the deck at 450 knots. So it takes a lot more inputs and you're not used to flying the aircraft a lot in that regime. So you, you know, by flying these same aircraft over and over and over, you know exactly how much throttle you need.

• 1:13:51Speaker 06

  Especially if you're, you know, deviating to a different show site, you might be at 2000 pressure altitude. Now you go to like Cheyenne, Wyoming and it's five or 6,000. So the pressure, the, the air is thinner. So it's going to respond a lot different. And the more you know your aircraft, the, the more accurate and precise you're going to be able to fly it in those formations. But in a combat situation, combat unit, operational squadrons. You typically don't fly the same aircraft over and over. So you, you will have to set it up the way you want it and some have different, you know, just different things that you like or don't like.

• 1:14:31Shawn Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:14:32Speaker 06

  But.

• 1:14:32Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. Okay. All right. So you can get used to any of them relatively.

• 1:14:38Speaker 06

  You do and you, you have to, it's just the nature of the beast and the inventory and the phase of the aircraft. But, um, you, uh, you were asking something about experience, um.

• 1:14:52Speaker 06

  You only know, um, you think you know more than you actually do at different levels of your career. Like, I thought it was pretty shit hot coming out of B course F-16 training. I'm going to my first combat unit. And then by the time I got to weapons school, I looked back and I'm like, oh my God, I'm glad I didn't kill myself in some of those missions. Night MVGs in South Korea, it's scary type flying. And then after weapons school, you know, you further along you get, it's like, you don't know what you didn't know back then. And you're just glad you survived all these different, you know, phases of your life going through a career of, you know, flying fighters.

• 1:15:36Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. So you get through, you get through F-16 school. What, how's graduation?

• 1:15:44Speaker 06

  Yeah. Graduation again, seems to be, I don't, maybe it's a lot like the SEALs as far as there's.

• 1:15:50Shawn Ryan?

  It's gotta be pretty surreal.

• 1:15:52Speaker 06

  It is. Um, usually there's drinking involved. Um, you gotta let go somehow, some way.

• 1:16:00Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:03Speaker 06

  Uh, yeah. Pilot training, it's a big deal to get your wings, you know, I still have my wings that were pinned on, took them to space. Um, um, you just, again, I don't reflect too much, my personality, I'm always looking.

• 1:16:21Shawn Ryan?

  I get it. I get it. I'm the same way. But I mean, there's gotta be a ton of tradition, right? There's gotta be a ton of tradition in, in becoming an F-16 pilot or any type of fighter pilot. I mean.

• 1:16:34Speaker 06

  Yeah, I think.

• 1:16:36Shawn Ryan?

  How do they pin your wings on?

• 1:16:42Speaker 06

  You know, that was, that was anticlimactic. Um, there wasn't anything too sexy about the ceremony in pilot training. The real traditions that we love and cherish, um, are the, in the fighter squadrons, in the operational combat units, and every squadron's different. There's a lot of heritage because it goes all the way back. Um.

• 1:17:06Speaker 06

  To the World War I, II, Vietnam, um, on up. And those traditions have long lasted.

• 1:17:16Shawn Ryan?

  So you said what, there's, there's 12, was there, you said there was about 12 people in the original?

• 1:17:21Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:17:22Shawn Ryan?

  Plus the foreigners, which we won't count. But, um, cause they don't, I mean, they don't, we're not training them how to fly F-16s.

• 1:17:30Speaker 06

  Uh, they will go fly, um, I had a, there's a Turkish. Singapore has a squadron, actually, at Luke teaches F-16s. Um, but typically they'll go back and, and do their own thing.

• 1:17:46Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:17:47Speaker 06

  Um.

• 1:17:48Shawn Ryan?

  So how many Americans were regular before you moved into the F-16 school? You said, I think you said there was like 12?

• 1:17:54Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:17:55Shawn Ryan?

  And so how many go to F-16 school?

• 1:17:57Speaker 06

  I think we have five.

• 1:17:59Shawn Ryan?

  Five?

• 1:18:01Speaker 06

  Cause there was, maybe it was more than 12. There was like four or five light grays, F-15Cs. They went to Tindal Air Force Base in, in Florida. There was five or six F-16s that, that went to Luke. And then there was two A-10 pilots, and then there was a B-1 and a B-52. And then two instructor pilots that stuck around.

• 1:18:26Speaker 06

  I think that's right.

• 1:18:26Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 1:18:27Speaker 06

  That equals.

• 1:18:28Shawn Ryan?

  So what's it like showing up to your command then?

• 1:18:31Speaker 06

  So you go to Luke and now it's like, that base is dedicated to teaching, it's a F-16 schoolhouse. So there's, it's fighter squadrons, but it's still people who, you know, the instructors are all operational experience combat.

• 1:18:47Speaker 06

  And now go back to the schoolhouse to teach. It's a, it's a good, you know, quality of life for the families. You're not deploying. You're just, you're just doing the, the nine to five kind of teaching young punks how to be F-16 pilots. And it's a six month rotation, so it's just constant. It's probably going to

• 1:19:06Speaker 06

  North Island.

• 1:19:08Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:19:08Speaker 06

  Coronado for

• 1:19:11Speaker 06

  instructors. I don't know, maybe.

• 1:19:12Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:13Speaker 06

  That's probably more the weapon school at Nellis.

• 1:19:16Shawn Ryan?

  So, so you go, so it's regular pilot school, F-16. Then you teach?

• 1:19:21Speaker 06

  No, I was just making a comment about the instructors that taught us how to be F-16 pilots. They have experience. They were out in the field doing combat missions at operational units around the world. And they'll do that for an assignment or two. You know, from three to six years and then they'll come back to be instructors.

• 1:19:43Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's, that's very similar.

• 1:19:46Speaker 06

  And then, and then they might go back, you know, do an assignment there for three years and then they'll go back into an operational.

• 1:19:52Shawn Ryan?

  So I guess what I'm getting at is what's, I mean, you kind of said, it sounded like graduation was kind of anticlimactic. So what's it like when you show up to your command after you graduate F-16 pilot school?

• 1:20:05Speaker 06

  So when you're in, when you.

• 1:20:06Shawn Ryan?

  You're in there with experienced.

• 1:20:08Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:20:09Shawn Ryan?

  Fighter pilots.

• 1:20:10Speaker 06

  You get a little bit of taste at F-16. Starts getting this little more combat flair, operational mindset, still a schoolhouse. But there's naming traditions and, and, you know, Fridays in the, in the bar and you're, you're still doing combat training.

• 1:20:29Speaker 06

  And then there's a graduation for that and then it's off to your unit and that is, those are combat units. This is when we're actually doing the no shit. You know, stuff. And depending on where you go, I went to Korea. Osan Air Base in Korea. Which was, to me, it's like one of those kind of. It's a remote location, so there's, there's not that many families. You can do a command sponsor where the whole family will show up. But sixty-nine, seventy percent of the squadron is bachelors.

• 1:21:03Speaker 06

  So there's, there's not families there. So the, the mentality in Korea is like light your hair on fire. Drinking a lot, going downtown, partying, flying awesome combat missions. Um, it's push it up mentality and it's kind of one of the only remaining. There's two bases in Korea, Kunsoo and Osan. I don't know how it's changed in the last 10 years since I've been out, but that was a good, um,

• 1:21:32Speaker 06

  um, just a introduction, indoctrination to the combat mentality.

• 1:21:40Shawn Ryan?

  Are you welcomed or are you treated like an FNG?

• 1:21:43Speaker 06

  Um, no, you're an FNG, um, but you have your LPA, Lieutenant Protection Association. It's the mafia, Lieutenant Mafia. So there's, there's the, the senior level, the lieutenant colonels, the commander, the, the director of operations, the DO. And then you got all the crusty old majors, um, and then you have captains. And then you have the punk lieutenants and I think there was nine of us. It was awesome. One, it was just an amazing experience, especially being in Korea. I mean, you saw some crazy shit in Korea. Uh, this was in the nine, late nineties. Um,

• 1:22:20Shawn Ryan?

  What kind of crazy shit?

• 1:22:21Speaker 06

  Oh, just, yeah, just crazy shit.

• 1:22:25Shawn Ryan?

  Like what?

• 1:22:26Speaker 06

  Drinking related crazy shit. Um, you'd go up to Seoul for the weekend. Um, just, we had money to burn and release some, some steam and energy from, from all the combat focused training that we were doing.

• 1:22:47Shawn Ryan?

  So it's like the SEAL tapes. It's a work hard, play hard culture.

• 1:22:50Speaker 06

  Absolutely, absolutely. And, um,

• 1:22:54Shawn Ryan?

  All right, before we get into it, let's take a break before, before we get into Korea. But I do want to ask you, is that, you're wearing a Breitling?

• 1:23:01Speaker 06

  I am.

• 1:23:01Shawn Ryan?

  What is?

• 1:23:02Speaker 06

  Don't, don't make fun of me because the battery died on me.

• 1:23:06Speaker 06

  So it's perpetually 320. Nice. Um, it died on me on the way here. Um, I'm too cheap to get a battery to replace it. What's with Pilots and Breitling? I know it's a Pilots watch. This is my Thunderbird watch. So this is the one with the Thunderbird patch. Oh damn, that's cool. Yeah, so it's um, kind of an heirloom. I took it to space. So this has been to space. Um, I have one from weapon school. It's got my weapon school patch on it. Um, I don't know.

• 1:23:34Speaker 06

  They're just cool watches. Is it an emergency? This has an ELT, but uh, if the battery doesn't work, I don't. You ever deployed one? No. They, they told us do not.

• 1:23:46Speaker 06

  Break glass only in emergency. Yeah, yeah, cool. All right, well, let's take a break.

• 1:23:54Speaker 09

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side, but Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked 350,000 Virginians healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com, not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:24:24Speaker 10

  For the barbecues,

• 1:24:27Speaker 10

  games with friends, and game day countdowns.

• 1:24:34Speaker 10

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• 1:24:58Speaker 00

  Mr. President, my company told me of the explosion on our rig.

• 1:25:02Speaker 01

  On October 2nd.

• 1:25:03Speaker 00

  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

• 1:25:08Speaker 01

  Tom Cruise is.

• 1:25:09Speaker 02

  Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up.

• 1:25:13Speaker 01

  From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 1:25:15Speaker 03

  What would happen if I stopped going? You starved, you freeze to death, that's what.

• 1:25:19Speaker 01

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:25:22Speaker 03

  I'm not the first daddy.

• 1:25:24Speaker 01

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a middle without parent.

• 1:25:33Shawn Ryan?

  All right, Scott, we're back from the break. We're in Korea. It's your first station as a F-16 pilot.

• 1:25:40Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:25:41Shawn Ryan?

  You met your wife there.

• 1:25:42Speaker 06

  I did.

• 1:25:45Shawn Ryan?

  How'd you guys meet?

• 1:25:47Speaker 06

  She was, she just graduated from college and her older brother was an F-16 pilot. So, post-graduation, she decided to go visit her brother with her other brother.

• 1:26:01Speaker 06

  And we hit it off. Um, she was actually dating another guy at the time. Nothing happened. Uh, but we stayed connected when she left. Um, and then we started corresponding. This was back in the like late 90s where MCI, calling cards.

• 1:26:20Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:21Speaker 06

  Um, email didn't exist at the time, so there's no correspondence that way. Um, it was just a couple of phone calls now and then.

• 1:26:30Speaker 06

  And when I decided to go visit her in Minnesota, where she lived, um, for the weekend. Vice versa, she came back to Korea for a couple of days. Spent a total of like four or five days together.

• 1:26:46Speaker 06

  And then she decided to move to Italy with me on my next assignment.

• 1:26:50Shawn Ryan?

  After living with, just spending four or five days together?

• 1:26:53Speaker 06

  Couple of days together.

• 1:26:54Shawn Ryan?

  And then she's moving to Italy?

• 1:26:56Speaker 06

  She moved to Italy. Yeah.

• 1:26:59Shawn Ryan?

  Right on.

• 1:26:59Speaker 06

  We knew. We named our kids before we even, you know, hung out.

• 1:27:06Shawn Ryan?

  Right on.

• 1:27:07Speaker 06

  They call it hanging out.

• 1:27:08Shawn Ryan?

  What was it about her?

• 1:27:11Speaker 06

  Oh my gosh, now you're...

• 1:27:14Speaker 06

  Man, she's, she's absolutely beautiful. Um, she's caring. She's fun. Um, I don't know, just, um...

• 1:27:26Speaker 06

  We just knew, um, right off the bat.

• 1:27:30Speaker 06

  Um. Yeah. Didn't take much to persuade her and vice versa. Uh, but we, we moved to Italy together. Um. That was my second assignment. So Korea's only a year because it's remote.

• 1:27:48Shawn Ryan?

  Anything significant happen in Korea?

• 1:27:50Speaker 06

  With.

• 1:27:51Shawn Ryan?

  F sixteen.

• 1:27:52Speaker 06

  Blowing shit up? No. No, it's pretty stable over there. Um, you're, you're constantly prepared for an invasion. Um.

• 1:28:00Shawn Ryan?

  Big party.

• 1:28:01Speaker 06

  Big party. I know. Parties, a lot of, um.

• 1:28:05Shawn Ryan?

  Nice.

• 1:28:06Speaker 06

  Traveling to and from Seoul.

• 1:28:07Shawn Ryan?

  Sounds like a UCOM in the SEAL teams.

• 1:28:09Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:28:10Shawn Ryan?

  Maybe a Thailand deployment.

• 1:28:11Speaker 06

  Thailand.

• 1:28:12Shawn Ryan?

  Although I never did get to do. Even today.

• 1:28:15Speaker 06

  Oh, really?

• 1:28:16Shawn Ryan?

  Pretty, yeah. Pretty wild.

• 1:28:18Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 1:28:19Shawn Ryan?

  You been to Thailand?

• 1:28:21Speaker 06

  Um.

• 1:28:22Shawn Ryan?

  You don't want to admit it, do you?

• 1:28:27Speaker 06

  Philippines. No, I've never been to Thailand. Japan and Korea.

• 1:28:32Shawn Ryan?

  Where's your favorite place?

• 1:28:35Speaker 06

  By far Italy.

• 1:28:36Shawn Ryan?

  No shit? Italy?

• 1:28:38Speaker 06

  Yeah. As far as what? What's the criteria?

• 1:28:40Shawn Ryan?

  You, anywhere you've been in every, out of everywhere you've been in the world, Italy? That's where you, that's where you like to be?

• 1:28:46Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:28:47Shawn Ryan?

  Why?

• 1:28:48Speaker 06

  Um, the culture. Um, the environment. The food. The wine.

• 1:28:55Shawn Ryan?

  What about the culture?

• 1:28:57Speaker 06

  They're so laid back and relaxed. We were so uptight in the U S and it's just constant.

• 1:29:04Speaker 06

  Coming and going. That was the biggest.

• 1:29:05Shawn Ryan?

  That's interesting. I mean, you're a super competitive guy since childhood. Roaming around the streets, looking, looking for people.

• 1:29:13Speaker 06

  I can be. Everyone else just chill out. It's me full throttle. No, um. We lived there three years and then, uh, an extra three years. So a total of six, but three with before kids and three after kids. Um, so we got to explore kind of two different worlds, I guess, two different timeframes. But, um, the culture is just laid back and it's Aviano is like, it's, it's about an hour north of Venice. It's right at the base of the Dolomites. So everything north is the Alps and everything south is farmland, flats, vineyards. Um, and it's rural. It's, there's no, Venice is an hour. Porta Nona is the biggest town. It's, I don't know, half the size of Nashville, maybe.

• 1:29:57Speaker 06

  Um, and there's no base housing. So you live amongst the, the local villages and it literally, it's, you know, the 1500s, 1600s villages. And it's just a pocket where some creeks meets and, you know, crevices in the mountains. And we lived in, um, San Giovanni de Puchanega, just a small town right up nestled. Um, actually it's really cool because the hotel there, um, Mussolini and Hitler stayed in. Not that that's cool, but, um, tiny, tiny little town, just beautiful. And the, um, everyone's just laid back, just ademani, ademani, we'll get to it tomorrow, ademani.

• 1:30:43Speaker 06

  You know, the reposo in the middle of the day, one to three, everything shuts down. August is completely shut down. So when you get there, it's just like, you have this wake up, you know, this culture shock because you're expecting convenience stores on the corner. And 24/7 and get what you need. And no, you, you go at the pace of the locals. Um, and once you get used to it, it's just like, this is chill. I biked all up and down where they, they do the Giro races and stuff like that. It's just, it's just beautiful. And the food, it's, I swear, it's the water that comes out of the aqueducts underneath the mountains. Um, so simple, very, very simple ingredients.

• 1:31:26Speaker 06

  Um, but the food is the best ever. Right on. Same with the wine. Right on. Yeah. So we go back once a year, actually. Oh, really? Yeah. Going back this week. Um, my buddy who's on the Thunderbirds, he's the commander of Aviano, the airbase there. And I'm going to be speaking at one of his events. So. Very cool. Very cool.

• 1:31:50Shawn Ryan?

  So what were you doing in Italy? What was the, what was the mission?

• 1:31:53Speaker 06

  Um, so I was assigned to the triple nickel, five fifty fifth fighter squadron. There's two squadrons there and it's just this constant rotation. Um, who's deployed? What's tough, tough about Aviano is that it's centrally located in, uh, U.SAFI, UCOM. Um, so you're constantly pulled in so many different directions because you're close proximity to more or less everything that's of interest. So whether it's a show of force, you know, the, um, Baltic policing flying it, um, out of Romania or Poland. Um, show of forces around the world, Africa, Morocco.

• 1:32:31Shawn Ryan?

  How, how long does it take an F-16 to get from central Italy to Poland?

• 1:32:39Speaker 06

  Um.

• 1:32:39Shawn Ryan?

  But that's a good ways.

• 1:32:41Speaker 06

  No, it's a couple. It, it's, it's not like we fly super fast because when you do that, it's like a race car. You're eating gas.

• 1:32:47Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:32:47Speaker 06

  So it's not like you have the legs, you're limited on range and, and you're going to be conservative. So you're flying airline speeds. And if you're relying upon those tankers, then you got to fly their speed or work some rejoin en route. So it's nothing, everyone asks, you know, how quickly can you get across the country and stuff like that? It's, you typically don't.

• 1:33:11Shawn Ryan?

  Gotcha. What's the typical flight time?

• 1:33:14Speaker 06

  Um, you can stretch it F-16s if you, external tanks depends on how much gas you're carrying, but we would do, you could probably stretch it out two and a half, three plus hours. If you're really back on the throttle and high altitude and winds are good and blah, blah, blah.

• 1:33:33Shawn Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:33:34Speaker 06

  But it's not, you don't want to stay too long. The longest flight I ever had, this was actually the, one of my favorite deployments. It was punk lieutenant. Um, and we do these traditions as fighter pilots. We have flat top February, mustache March. And so in Korea, we deployed to Alaska for Cope Thunder, just Operation, uh, uh, exercise. Middle of the winter, so there's no sun. So we have like, we're pasty white and we got these flat tops. So we're there for a couple, you know, raging as much as you can rage in, you know, middle of Alaska. And then we're going to take our jets and go shoot some missiles for test down in Panama City.

• 1:34:15Speaker 06

  Spring break. So you got these pasty white dudes and these overgrown haircut, flat tops and these, we start to grow these cheesy mustaches. We thought we were somebody.

• 1:34:30Speaker 06

  So that was that nine corps of lieutenants, the LPA. We did that. It was like a month and a half. We were on the road just doing fun stuff. So anyways, I can't remember where I was going with that. Oh, longest sortie, longest sortie. Coming home from that, we launched from Omaha, Nebraska. And we, we stretch it all the way to get home to Korea. It's the longest I've ever been in F-16. It was 13.2 sortie, 13 hours. Wow.

• 1:35:03Speaker 06

  It was extremely painful. I'll bet. And you know, we got, I can't remember how many aircraft, eight-ish, um, eight or 12. And the, one of the flight leads in my formation, I'm a wingman, just a young punk. Um, and it's day into night and then there's weather now in Korea. So it's raining. And you're sleeping, you know, it's, it's a long, you're popping drugs to stay awake. And then it's time to get your game on because you're gonna, you're landing in weather at night, wet runway. And when he, uh, when my flight lead took off 13 hours prior, he had a, a brake failure.

• 1:35:44Speaker 06

  And at night, you know, you ambient light and MBGs, you, you're going to turn some lights down or turn them off or, you know, pop them to pull out the bulb. And he, he was getting annoyed by his brake failure light. So he pops it out. So you don't see it anymore. 13 hours go by and he completely forgets about it. So he's in the F-16 in front of me. He lands, brake one, puts the nose down, applies the brake and nothing.

• 1:36:13Speaker 06

  So backup, you know, at that point is to put the hook down and take the cable. And if you take the cable, the runway is completely shut down. So I'm this lieutenant, I'm in the touchdown approaching his aircraft in front of me and I, he's like, abort, abort, or I can't remember what he said, but he's like, brake failure. So, you know, you know, you've been flying for 13 hours, it's raining. The last thing you're thinking about is your instrument departure. When you're just trying to put this aircraft on the deck and all you want to do is get out of this cockpit, but pouring rain, wet runway, got to take off. And now we got to divert up to Suon, which is just another base. So your asses and elbows just trying to pull up charts and land this aircraft safely.

• 1:36:58Speaker 06

  But that was the longest sortie I ever flew was

• 1:37:01Shawn Ryan?

  It's a long damn time.

• 1:37:02Speaker 06

  Yeah. And it's no bigger than this seat. I mean, it's, I got a fist width between the top of the helmet and the canopy and you got little rails, you can put your arms in. I'm, I'm not a big guy and there's some, I got a buddy who's 6'5" and he flew Vipers.

• 1:37:17Shawn Ryan?

  Oh man.

• 1:37:18Speaker 06

  But it's actually sitting height. So it's from your butt to the top of your head. If you have short stubby legs, you can be 6'5". But if you got a, or no, vice versa, if you've got long legs, you're fine. If you've got short stubby legs and you've got a long torso, that's the issue.

• 1:37:34Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:35Speaker 06

  That's the reason why the seat is, is banked back there is because it just fits into the cockpit, the ACES II seat.

• 1:37:43Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. So, anything significant operationally happen in Italy?

• 1:37:51Speaker 06

  Um, we deployed, this was late 90s, early 2000s before, um, 9/11. We were still doing Operation Northern Watch, Southern Watch. So you had the north swath and then in the south swath of Iraq that was no fly zone for them. They'd launched their MiGs to do these mock runs, but they wouldn't get anywhere near. And we would sit there and patrol, you know, every once in a while you'd go after a couple targets, AAA pieces that were getting too close to the no fly zone that were a threat to us patrolling. And then we ended up, we took on the Sandy Roll CSAR as F-16s, which is a challenge.

• 1:38:35Speaker 06

  Leave that to the A-10s and the Helos, but we deployed to Insur Lake, Turkey. We'd fly across to the northern watch Kuwait, we'd do the southern watch. So we did a bunch of those deployments. And then 9/11 hit and I was, I was in my second year, I had one more year left at Aviano. And I was in my, I was in my boss's office, the 06. And I walk in and he's got the only TV on base, because this is again 2001 in Italy and they just didn't have that kind of technology. And we're watching the tower go down. And we immediately went into alert posture, because we didn't know what they were going

• 1:39:20Speaker 06

  to expect of us. You know, after, you know, in reflection, it was, it took a while for there was any true movement and deployments and so we can do much from that location. Takes a deployment to get in that, that takes some effort. And there's a cycle process. There's units back in the States that are on, so it's, it just depends on where you're at. Same with the SEALs as far as when you're tasked to go do something, but we're certainly not going to respond like you typically would. So as things began to heat up, I got selected for weapons school, fighter weapons school,

• 1:40:05Speaker 06

  now called the Air Force Weapons School, because there's more than just fighters there. There's everything in the Air Force inventory. Has a weapons school now, but back then it was called the fighter weapons school. It's the Air Force version of Top Gun. But it's six months long. It's like getting your PhD in all things tactics. So I was selected for that and then I went to Nellis Air Force Base in Las Vegas, which is pretty much all the all thing tactics. What is, so what exactly is weapons school? So it's a six month long program. You go under the banner of your MDS, your airframe.

• 1:40:49Speaker 06

  For me, it was F-16s. So I go to the F-16 Fighter Weapons School. And the hierarchy of within the fighter community is you start off as a wingman and then eventually, maybe a couple of years, you'll go in as a two ship flight lead. So now you can lead around a wingman. And then from there, you'll go to a four ship flight lead. So now you can lead four aircraft. From there, you'll be an instructor. Your next step is to be an instructor. And then, once you become an instructor, you can become a flight evaluator, just given exams, check rides. But once you become a seasoned instructor, you can apply and compete for Fighter Weapons School. And the idea behind Fighter Weapons School is

• 1:41:33Speaker 06

  to hone your skills, tactics, techniques, and procedures for all things F-16s, as well as everything else in the inventory. And you become a weapons officer. And so every unit's going to have a dedicated weapons officer, who is more or less in charge of that organization's preparation for combat. There might be a couple patch, they're called patchwares. It's a bullseye patch, gray. The commander might be a patchware, the DO might be a patchware. There might be a couple, but the dedicated position that you're, you're more or less, your commitment to go, if you go to this school, your commitment is to

• 1:42:15Speaker 06

  be, at least for three years, a patchware, a weapons officer. Okay. And you are the expert. You are teaching your youngest wingman to your most seasoned IP. You're responsible for, for training them and preparing them for combat deployments.

• 1:42:34Speaker 06

  And it's cyclical, you know, you'll, you'll go through different phases, you'll, hey, you know, here's my training plan for the year. We're going to focus on air to air, we're going to focus on CAS during this month, and then we're going to do our combat prep for the specific mission we're going to do in Afghanistan, Iraq, and then we're going to deploy. And so he's responsible for, for developing that. You go to Korea to be a weapons officer, your primary job is to prepare for war against North Korea. So he's, he or she's focused on developing those plans. Interesting. So that's the role behind weapon school. And it's six months and it's the most intense thing I've ever done. Really?

• 1:43:15Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah. It's, you sleep, eat and breathe, all things tactics. You have no responsibilities other than just to graduate. You know, the day you show up, you get a manual, let's stack that high on the research philosophy, or radar philosophy. It's kind of a haze, but they're like, hey, here's your manuals. You have two days to study this and you're going to have an exam, you know? So it's just this overwhelming fire hose effect because it's, you know, you're taught all this stuff going through the ranks to up to instructor pilot. That's five, six, seven years before you get to this point, um, post pilot training.

• 1:43:57Speaker 06

  But you take it to a, a whole new level.

• 1:44:02Speaker 06

  You know, you'll fly one mission and it, and it's phase based. It's that building block approach. So you start off BFM, that, that one V one dog fighting skills. You're going to hone those skills, then the, the two V two, and then the four V four, and then these huge massive employments towards the end of the graduation to include all the air to ground missions. So you're, you're. Learning everything you possibly can throughout each phase. And you might fly a one hour flight assorting. BFM one mission. You'll put five, six hours of prep into that. You'll fly for one hour and you might debrief it for 10 hours.

• 1:44:44Speaker 06

  You're dissecting every single thing that you did to hone your skills and become the best tactician that you possibly can be. You can be going to debrief sun setting. And by the time you come out and sun's rising, you go grab, you know, dinner at the, or breakfast at the two, five club or something. Um, across the street at Nellis, but that's your life for six months and.

• 1:45:09Speaker 06

  Everyone's, you know, on edge and am I going to survive this program? Am I going to make it through?

• 1:45:17Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:18Speaker 06

  Because there is a washout rate and it's very intense.

• 1:45:21Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting.

• 1:45:22Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:45:24Shawn Ryan?

  Let's talk about.

• 1:45:27Shawn Ryan?

  When is the first time that you? You flew combat mission?

• 1:45:37Speaker 06

  There's certainly different flavors of combat.

• 1:45:41Speaker 06

  Some of the missions up in Korea, you're flying the patrol along the border. Those are considered combat. The Northern Watch, Southern Watch, some every once in a while you would employ against some triple A piece out the middle. Honestly, it wasn't till the, towards the end of my career, when I deployed to Afghanistan. Um, at the heat of ISIS, um, 2015.

• 1:46:04Speaker 06

  Doing counterterrorism missions that it was like every day you're employing.

• 1:46:12Shawn Ryan?

  You remember the first one?

• 1:46:16Speaker 06

  I do.

• 1:46:19Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:46:21Speaker 06

  So our configuration, load out what we're carrying for munitions, we have, um, all my bros are gonna give me shit. Um, if I can't remember, there's a GBU 38 and a GBU 54. These are 500 pound bombs, they're guided either, um, coordinates that you put in or laser. You can use your targeting pod and a laser designator with the same PRF code and designate a target. But those are typically not fast movers. Those are stationary targets, um, buildings, uh, KS 19 piece out in the open or camouflage. You know, based on the intel, you're trying to figure it out.

• 1:47:02Speaker 06

  And we carry a Maverick, so that's the tank buster. Um, that's, I think, a 300 pound, um, warhead that, uh, it's a, it's a missile. And that's, can be guided, um, same, but it's typically guided, it's, it's, the way you employ it is a two ship. So you've got one aircraft that's gonna roll in, three to five nautical mile wheel, roll in at a certain altitude and point at the target. General area, put the thing on the thing, launch the Maverick and it's, whoosh, it just rockets off your aircraft. And the other, um, wingman is stacked up high and through all the coordination, the nine line, the verification of target identification.

• 1:47:46Speaker 06

  Um, the designator's up stacked up high and he's just staring at his four by four inch screen targeting pod. He's got the thing on the thing and he's lays in that target, 20, 30 second time of flight and, and shack the target. Um, and so my first employment, um, was against a vehicle that was on the move and, you know,

• 1:48:12Speaker 06

  depending on your timing and when you flew these missions, day nights, um, sometimes it got hot. It was like every time you went up, it was kind of, you're, you're getting targets. And the way that it was run back then was just kind of a progressive approach on, we're not gonna hit your average.

• 1:48:33Speaker 06

  What were they called? Uh, MAMS? Uh, male, uh, military average male age. Uh, I can't remember the, the three dash one term for them. Um, but it, it wasn't like we were just going after your basic terrorist.

• 1:48:49Shawn Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:48:50Speaker 06

  They were progressively looking for a, a higher value target. Based on resources and, and you know, all the intel and, and scenario and what was going on at that time in Afghanistan. So, um, I had one vehicle that was, had five MAMS, the, the, the males, all terrorists, all verified. Um, we've been tracking it for days because how, you know, they'd, they'd find one guy. Humant, we'd figure out who it was and we'd watch them for the next, you know, proof of flight or, you know, um, what is it called?

• 1:49:27Shawn Ryan?

  You were in on this planning process?

• 1:49:29Speaker 06

  No, most of this was done. I did a little bit of, uh, at the jock at, uh, Bagram, but it wasn't. Most of us was, we, we were just getting the intel feed before we took off. We'd fly a four hour sortie, refuel every once an hour kind of thing, uh, and we'd be given a, a region. We flew out of Bagram, so we're centrally located. So we were flying all over and it was pretty hot along the Pakistan border. Um, up by Tajikistan was pretty hot. Um, and then some of the mountains up in the northeast corner. Um, but we would, we'd have more and more confidence as things developed. And we're like, okay, this is a high probability sortie kind of thing.

• 1:50:15Speaker 06

  And we get the initial intel. And then once you get on, on scene, um, in the AO, they would give you, you know, a, a intel update and a nine line if there was a potential for a target. And now you're building your situational awareness over the target area. And once you get the information, you put it in your systems and now you're just trying to get eyes on to the target. And then you got to go through the verification depending on who you're talking to. Most of it, we're talking people who are in the jock with feed from, you know, high def predators.

• 1:50:54Speaker 06

  And then, you know, we had a certain type of munition. The predators had hellfires, but depending on how big the target was or how critical it was, you were going to choose the platform that best suited that target. Weaponarium, the target set.

• 1:51:13Speaker 06

  And this was a vehicle that had five terrorists in it. And we decided to, it was on the move, so we decided to do a Maverick attack. And my wingman was going to be the shooting platform and I was going to laser it. And as, as soon as he rolled in, he neglected to go master arm hot.

• 1:51:37Speaker 06

  So there's, there's an option on the, on the master arm switch that goes simulate off or master arm hot. Well, it's just a habit pattern to go into sim. Because training, you know, 99% of your flying is training. So he goes to sim, rolls in, shoots, shit, doesn't come off the aircraft because it's loud. It just

• 1:51:58Speaker 06

  And so he has to recover because you have a very, very small window in range kind of thing. So as soon as he comes off, he spooks the vehicle. So it stops, all five just run. Oh shit. So we burned the target at this point. And we're like, that's, that was our chance. They're, they're gone to the wind. So we leave and we stand off out of earshot. But we have enough gas and a couple hours left, so we just wait for the next, you know, update. Well, lo and behold, they decide, oh, they're gone. Let's get back in the vehicle. So they all slowly, one by one, come back. And they're like, holy shit, this is developing.

• 1:52:43Speaker 06

  Let's get back in this. So we get a little bit closer and again, continue to earshot. And then we switch roles. So I'm going to roll in and employ and my wingman lasers it.

• 1:52:56Speaker 06

  But he was pissed.

• 1:52:59Speaker 06

  Hey.

• 1:53:01Speaker 06

  Had his chance. So you did it? Yeah. How'd that feel? Um, it's pretty intense. You know, it's a.

• 1:53:12Speaker 06

  At the time, it's like ISIS. You know, we're watching people, orange jumpsuits, stuck in cages, drowned and burned alive. So there was, there's a lot of rage, I guess. And our mindset changed too, because what we're taught in survival training, you know, be able to talk your way out, resist the, um, any torture you might experience if you're ever caught and how to evade. And once that all started developing, it was all bets are off, man. I'm bringing an extra, nothing compared to what you guys are carrying, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna bring a couple of clips.

• 1:53:53Speaker 06

  I had one dude who was carrying a machete that was strapped to his leg like that's gonna do anything. God bless him. Um, but it was like, if you have to go down, you either get hit, your engine fails, good luck. Yeah. You know, I'd fight to the death kind of mentality versus, you know, play your game, figure it out, try to manipulate your situation until someone arrives, kind of thing. But, you know, and it was real. I mean, we had two guys that got hit, total golden BB kind of theory.

• 1:54:32Speaker 06

  He was doing an employment and whether it was a AK-47, some guy on the side of a mountain, he can, uh, you know, plinking shots, put a hole in his ventral fin, those fins in the back of the aircraft, put a big old hole right through that. No idea until he got on the ground and did his post-flight check, but he's like, holy shit, there's a big hole. And then one guy, um.

• 1:54:58Speaker 06

  He was flying too low, too long, and they took a shot at him and it hit his AMRAM, his AIM 120 missile, which is on the wingtips. It's for air-to-air employment, which is never going to happen in Afghanistan. But it hit the missile and the missile caught on fire. So the wingtip of his aircraft's on fire. And so he's in emergency, he's trying to get back to Bagram and I'm sitting supervisory position. And so I have a radio with me and I hear this and I'm going out to see this. But thankfully, the airflow eventually put the fire out. He didn't have to punch or anything like that.

• 1:55:43Speaker 06

  But we're flying a single-seat, single-engine aircraft. So it's very reliable. Gee and Pratt Whitney, depending on what airframe, what flavor F-16 you're flying, but it's still only one engine. And it, you know, there's no glide ratio in the Viper. It's gonna fall like a rock and you're gonna have to punch.

• 1:56:03Shawn Ryan?

  How did it feel for you, though? You described your wingman's approach and mess with the Sims, and then you just breezed right by your approach.

• 1:56:21Speaker 06

  It's satisfying, too grotesque.

• 1:56:27Speaker 06

  You know, in combat, the highs and lows you experience are, it's all too familiar with any type of combat. And I think the most intense emotional experience is having to make decisions that will hopefully save the lives of the friendlies on the ground, but you also have to deal with the consequences of your actions, that you're taking the life of the enemy. I pray that when I meet my day, it's, I'm judged based on, you know, making the right decisions based on the information I had at the time. But it's heavy.

• 1:57:09Speaker 06

  You've got to deal with it. It happened a lot on this deployment.

• 1:57:16Shawn Ryan?

  You took a lot of lives.

• 1:57:18Speaker 06

  Quite a few.

• 1:57:22Speaker 06

  Um, yeah.

• 1:57:26Shawn Ryan?

  When did that start to affect you?

• 1:57:30Shawn Ryan?

  What did you start thinking about?

• 1:57:34Shawn Ryan?

  Answering to God at the end?

• 1:57:40Speaker 06

  It's always been there, and I think it's.

• 1:57:43Shawn Ryan?

  Was it there on the approach?

• 1:57:46Speaker 06

  No. No. There is a moment that, and I don't know if other fighter pilots experience it, but it's like right before you push the button, squeeze the trigger. There's just this intense, not apprehension, but just massive adrenaline rush on.

• 1:58:12Speaker 06

  Do I have all the information that I need? Am I making, and I don't know if it's the same for pulling a trigger on a gun, but um, I've employed it all. I've shot the gun in anger. I've 500 pound bombs, Mavericks. It's um.

• 1:58:30Speaker 06

  There's always this, I hope this is the right decision. But um. And I, I think you have more time to think about it when it's those scenarios where it's an element of surprise. Um, there are situations where they're shooting at me and I have zero hesitation. I wouldn't even call it hesitation. It's just this intense feeling of, I hope this is the right decision.

• 1:58:57Speaker 06

  Cause it's.

• 1:58:59Speaker 06

  You know, I, I think it's one thing to look through a scope or be close to the enemy, but I'm, you know, up at 20,000 feet. Um.

• 1:59:09Shawn Ryan?

  Did it make you feel like your career was complete?

• 1:59:18Speaker 06

  Um, yes, I'll be honest, absolutely.

• 1:59:25Speaker 06

  You know, timing's everything.

• 1:59:27Shawn Ryan?

  See, I think there's, I think there's like

• 1:59:32Shawn Ryan?

  in any combat role, fighter pilot, ground guy, tank, whatever it is.

• 1:59:41Shawn Ryan?

  You know, the mission is to go to kill people. And there's a selfishness in that. And I think

• 1:59:55Shawn Ryan?

  I think a lot of people

• 1:59:59Shawn Ryan?

  think they may have a failed career if they never get the opportunity to take somebody's life in combat. And that's how we think of it. We think of it as, I never got to kill somebody.

• 2:00:14Speaker 06

  But is this how we're trained?

• 2:00:17Shawn Ryan?

  I think it is. I think it is. It maybe not how we're trained, but it's how the culture is. You know, because and how fucked up is that? If you think about it, I never got the opportunity to fucking kill somebody.

• 2:00:32Speaker 06

  To employ an anger, yeah.

• 2:00:35Shawn Ryan?

  Whereas, you know, most normal people would say, you know, I never, I never had to do that. I never had to kill somebody.

• 2:00:46Shawn Ryan?

  And so I think the culture, you know, makes you, it, it, it manifests that inside of you.

• 2:00:55Speaker 06

  But

• 2:00:55Shawn Ryan?

  but at the same time, you know, when you're talking about meeting, meeting, you know, God or Jesus and answering, answering, you know, to all those scenarios that you played out. You know what I mean? There's also, I mean, there is a selfishness, because I know what you're talking about. And

• 2:01:17Shawn Ryan?

  but it's also comes down to, you know, I mean, you're a Christian, we're going to get into, you know, we're going to get into that, your experience later, but

• 2:01:28Shawn Ryan?

  you know, I think it all comes down to what's in your heart, right? You know, you think you're doing the right thing.

• 2:01:34Speaker 06

  Right.

• 2:01:35Shawn Ryan?

  They think they're doing the right thing.

• 2:01:39Shawn Ryan?

  They're just doing what they believe is right. And you're just doing what you believe is right. Right?

• 2:01:49Speaker 06

  Absolutely. And

• 2:01:53Speaker 06

  if you don't do that thing

• 2:01:58Speaker 06

  in several

• 2:02:02Speaker 06

  employments I had, quite a few, it's like if I don't because right now they're getting shot at. And who knows how that's going to develop. They're hunkered down. The threat's got RPGs and you know, they're pinned down. And so if if I do hesitate or I miss a switch or

• 2:02:25Speaker 06

  I'm willing to make that decision based on knowing it's helping

• 2:02:34Speaker 06

  my side, I guess.

• 2:02:35Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:36Speaker 06

  No, I mean, it's

• 2:02:38Shawn Ryan?

  And they're thinking the same thing.

• 2:02:39Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:02:40Shawn Ryan?

  If they don't plant that bomb on the side of the road and kill Americans, then more of them are going to die. It's just a, it's a it's really kind of, you know, it's fascinating to think about.

• 2:02:53Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:02:55Shawn Ryan?

  Because everybody is legitimately just doing what they think is right.

• 2:03:03Speaker 06

  So who sets the guidelines, you know, who?

• 2:03:08Speaker 06

  God?

• 2:03:09Shawn Ryan?

  Yep.

• 2:03:13Shawn Ryan?

  But when did that, you know, when did you, when did that kind of stuff start entering your head?

• 2:03:19Speaker 06

  It was always there. Um.

• 2:03:29Speaker 06

  Because there's always that moment when you're pushing. There's always the free fall of the munition, you know? The time of flight, anywhere from 20 seconds out to a minute, depending on, you know, how you're releasing it, but that whole time is just like it's very compartmentalized. It's like check and double check that I've done everything that I possibly can to mitigate any collateral damage concerns. Um.

• 2:04:00Speaker 06

  But then the whole flight home, you're thinking about it. Um, and then going through the debrief and analyzing the BDA.

• 2:04:11Speaker 06

  Uh, after the fact.

• 2:04:15Speaker 06

  I mean, I don't know if you ever fully get over it, other than, you know, it's there and I'll have to answer for it.

• 2:04:23Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I mean, on the other, on the other.

• 2:04:27Shawn Ryan?

  You know, we're, I mean, we're not talking about civilian casualties here, but then on the, on the other hand, everybody's very aware of the consequences. Everybody's, everybody involved, you know, is aware of what the ultimate consequences. You are aware what happens if you go down, you talk, you know, orange jumpsuits, beheadings, burning you alive.

• 2:04:54Shawn Ryan?

  Whatever torture. And they're, they're just as aware of the consequences if they get compromised. That there's going to be a 500 pound bomb, you know, that lands on their vehicle. And so, you know, it's voluntary. Everybody's, everybody on both sides is fully aware of what the consequences of engaging in war is.

• 2:05:23Speaker 06

  I guess that's why we sign up to serve.

• 2:05:25Shawn Ryan?

  Yep. So, you know,

• 2:05:32Shawn Ryan?

  I don't know. I think a lot about it, but you know, the whole thing is,

• 2:05:39Shawn Ryan?

  you know, Jesus knows what's in your heart. And I think that's all that matters.

• 2:05:46Speaker 06

  Absolutely.

• 2:05:53Speaker 06

  We're definitely influenced by our experiences too. And that's why, especially the older I get, the more centered I want to be on following Jesus and I mean, look how screwed up our world is and it's easily, it's easy to get caught thinking the sky is falling and the world's gonna end. But if you're centered in your faith, we're not in control. We're all sinful.

• 2:06:29Speaker 06

  We have free will and that's probably our demise, you know, but um, we're not in control. I hope I made the decisions that I did in combat for the right reasons.

• 2:06:55Shawn Ryan?

  How long were you over there?

• 2:06:58Speaker 06

  Fighter squadrons typically do like six month rotations. So that time was six months in 2015. Before that, they were anywhere from 90 days to six months. We were coming and going. We'd spent half Aviano, that central located, I mean, you barely had time to enjoy the country because you were constantly coming and going. You'd come back to the States to do red flag exercises, big coalition force type exercises with hundreds of aircraft at Nellis Air Force Base in Las Vegas where we spent six years

• 2:07:40Speaker 06

  for various assignments. But yeah, that deployment was six months.

• 2:07:50Shawn Ryan?

  How many missions did you fly, do you know?

• 2:07:54Speaker 06

  Oh, I was flying every, every other day, probably every two days sometimes. I was in a leadership position, so you know, you got the squadrons. And then above that is the group and the wing. I was at the group level. But flying with the squadrons, um, I was just old into my career.

• 2:08:20Speaker 06

  Twenty year point, so, um, I would fly as much as they'd let me.

• 2:08:26Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:30Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, it's crazy, man. I haven't done one of these type of interviews in a little bit.

• 2:08:37Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's.

• 2:08:40Speaker 06

  That you, you strike a chord with the whole.

• 2:08:45Speaker 06

  Feeling complete in a career.

• 2:08:49Speaker 06

  And I don't know if it's just the fighter pilot or the operator mentality.

• 2:08:55Shawn Ryan?

  It's the fighter mentality, man. It is the warrior mentality.

• 2:08:59Speaker 06

  Uh, because that is certainly how it is in our world. Um, I've done things that are, that take me off that track with the Thunderbirds and tests and aggressors.

• 2:09:14Speaker 06

  But it's almost a blessing and a curse.

• 2:09:20Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, you get to experience. Maybe not you get, you experience something that.

• 2:09:30Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, there's just next to nobody that experiences that.

• 2:09:33Speaker 06

  No. In fact, I've been. Speaking more keynotes and stuff and one of my stories is combat and, and it's like.

• 2:09:43Speaker 06

  I almost have to take a step back. Cause even doing interviews and talking about it, it's like.

• 2:09:51Speaker 06

  You gotta put this in perspective. How do you apply this? To someone who doesn't necessarily go to work that's. Life or death situation, other than, you know, our. Frontline providers, um.

• 2:10:09Speaker 06

  It's um, yeah, it's, it's a tough conversation to have too.

• 2:10:15Speaker 06

  I'm struggling to articulate exactly how I feel. At this point, it's just because it's definitely there. Um, no doubt of it, especially as you get older, you know, and

• 2:10:27Speaker 06

  kids and.

• 2:10:31Shawn Ryan?

  Would you want your kids to go to war?

• 2:10:34Speaker 06

  Would I want them to go to war?

• 2:10:38Shawn Ryan?

  If your kid wanted to be an F-16 pilot or whatever, whatever the equivalent is today?

• 2:10:45Speaker 06

  You call me old?

• 2:10:46Shawn Ryan?

  You know?

• 2:10:49Speaker 06

  It is, it is. It's almost a legacy platform.

• 2:10:52Shawn Ryan?

  Would you want them to have those experiences?

• 2:10:54Speaker 06

  Um.

• 2:10:59Speaker 06

  If you ask me what I want them to serve, I would be honored. I, I will never pressure my kids if they want to be whatever they want. I don't, I could care less. I just want them happy and to pursue something that they're passionate about, not some societal expectation.

• 2:11:17Speaker 06

  Sports, employment, jobs, whatever, academics. I just want them to pursue something they are passionate about, uh, because that's exactly what I did. And I feel very blessed and happy of what I went through. So, um, if they wanted to serve, I would be very proud and honored.

• 2:11:39Speaker 06

  And I, there's a chance, a couple of my teenagers might.

• 2:11:45Speaker 06

  But if they don't, I don't, I don't care as long as they're living a life that they're happy with. I certainly don't want them serving just because of me.

• 2:11:56Speaker 06

  Now to get to your, I've been avoiding your question, would, I want them to go to war. I would say no. And that's.

• 2:12:06Speaker 06

  I don't know if that's selfish and the fact that I don't want my kids at risk and the shit I've seen and been through.

• 2:12:14Speaker 06

  Cause there were plenty of times, not even in combat, just I was a split decision of death because of just the nature of the business. You know, I saw a Thunderbird show and I delayed a rejoin too long and the aircraft pulled nine Gs. I pulled 10.5 Gs because I thought I was gonna hit the ground. And, you know, I recovered 100 feet from the ground, which is in a fighter jet, that's damn close.

• 2:12:45Speaker 06

  And so it's just like, those split decisions could have gone completely different. I've had plenty of people, good buddy of mine, I was stationed in Aviano, Trojan Gilbert. He was in combat and he was strafing. And recovery for strafes is like 75 feet, so you get in amongst them when you're shooting the gun.

• 2:13:10Speaker 06

  And he ended up dying in combat. And so it's just like, it doesn't take much, you know.

• 2:13:20Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:21Speaker 06

  But you could also get hit by a car walking across the road.

• 2:13:24Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I think, you know, I'm more asking, would you, you know, do you want?

• 2:13:30Shawn Ryan?

  I think about this all the time, you know.

• 2:13:32Speaker 06

  Especially with the kids now.

• 2:13:34Shawn Ryan?

  And, uh, I mean, you know who I have on this show and the stuff that we talk about and the toll that it takes and the burden you have to fucking live with afterwards. And all, I mean, I don't know what, I don't know what it's like for pilots, but I mean, the suicide rate amongst special ops guys is just astronomical. You can see it. You can see the load we're all carrying, I mean, immediately. And I just, I think about that, I mean.

• 2:14:12Shawn Ryan?

  It really fucking changes you.

• 2:14:14Speaker 06

  How? Like, how do you see it? Body language, care of themselves?

• 2:14:19Shawn Ryan?

  He can see it in their eyes.

• 2:14:23Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, it's like stoic, emotionless.

• 2:14:29Shawn Ryan?

  Lack of humor. It's just a fucking heaviness.

• 2:14:33Speaker 06

  Is that because of enduring all the experiences? Or is it the intensity of the experience?

• 2:14:42Shawn Ryan?

  Or is it? I don't know. I think, I think the verdict's still out on that. I think it's just all of it. I think it's, I think it's resentment. Because other people didn't have to experience it. They don't understand. I think it's the experience itself. I think it's the guilt. It's the loss. I think it's all of it, you know, wrapped up and, and that's the product that you get.

• 2:15:09Speaker 06

  I think you guys certainly have it a lot worse. Because you're, you're down there. It's a lot different from twenty, thirty thousand feet.

• 2:15:20Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, maybe, maybe not, but you know, it sounds like you're struggling with it.

• 2:15:28Speaker 06

  Maybe that's what brings me closer to my faith.

• 2:15:36Speaker 06

  Hopefully it's not like me trying to justify, but.

• 2:15:41Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:46Shawn Ryan?

  How did you find your faith?

• 2:15:54Speaker 06

  So I grew up, we went to church, uh, in Georgia, but it was more of a formality. I think the, the extended family was, it was part of the expectation, but I don't remember much of it. Sunday school, getting donuts at Krispy Kreme afterwards. That was about it. Once we moved up at age five, we didn't step foot in a church. And it wasn't just, it wasn't a part of my upbringing.

• 2:16:20Speaker 06

  I always believed there was, you know, something. I just didn't, I was ignorant. I just didn't have the education or mentorship. It actually wasn't until, in fact, I didn't even know if I was baptized. We grew up Lutheran.

• 2:16:43Speaker 06

  And then married my wife and she's very strong Christian.

• 2:16:49Speaker 06

  And 2011,

• 2:16:53Speaker 06

  I was, we were, I can't remember where we were stationed, but we were on vacation in Minnesota. Her parents' house, live on a lake, cabin on a lake. And our kids are, I can't remember, two, four, and six. Two girls and a boy.

• 2:17:16Speaker 06

  And our four-year-old's gonna be baptized. And, and so that's part of the trip to up north and and so we're up there for vacation. Things are all going on and, and

• 2:17:32Speaker 06

  it's 4th of July and we're, we're having prep for fireworks. We get the whole, all the dads are getting together. The kids have been playing on the lake all day and it's evening. Now they're, you know, shepherd inside, take baths and get in their jammies and, and get ready for the fireworks.

• 2:17:50Speaker 06

  And we go out back, not the lakeside. We go up garage. It's like 300 yards away. Tree lines. It's, it's out of earshot and everything.

• 2:18:02Speaker 06

  And

• 2:18:04Speaker 06

  my four-year-old daughter, Maddie, she sneaks out of the house, sneaks down to the dock. She's looking for a toy she left. And she reaches over and falls off the dock into the water.

• 2:18:18Speaker 06

  And I'm up completely earshot away, can't see, can't hear anything. We're in the garage, working, music's going, and all of a sudden, I'm overcome with panic. I just, complete panic. Hair in the back of my head, I just, I start freaking out, and I just run out of the garage, and I run around the house, and I don't even know where I'm going. And I just run towards the water, and I'm, I don't even know what I'm looking for, but I'm just panicking, starting to yell. And all of a sudden, I see a body out in the water, and it's Maddie, face down

• 2:18:56Speaker 06

  in the water, about, I don't know, 50 yards off the dock. And I dive in, pull her to the dock and resuscitate her, and she, you know, she comes back pretty quick. And it just, I'm screaming to God, you know, please save my daughter. And we take her to the ER, and she gets checked out, and absolutely nothing wrong. No idea how long she was down. The doctor thinks she was down for probably about two to three minutes. And the sheer divine coincidence of the entire situation is that we were baptized just hours before together. Because she was

• 2:19:39Speaker 06

  scheduled to get baptized, and my wife says, hey, we don't know if you've been baptized. Do you want to get baptized with Maddie? And I'm like, sure, I'll go along to get along. I believe in something, sounds like a good idea. We bond. And this was literally hours before saving her life. And, you know, that was God. Divine intervention. You know, there's no way it wasn't. Because I was, I was heads down in the garage, couldn't hear anything, and I just sheer panic. So he was getting my attention. And I'm still, you know,

• 2:20:20Speaker 06

  Processing my faith, it's a journey.

• 2:20:24Speaker 06

  I am fully committed. It's, you know, a common question when you go to interviews and stuff like that. It's like, what are you reading? You know, what's the latest book you read? I'm just reading the Bible. I find my guidance and messages and you name it. I'm reading the Bible just because I think that's the answer to everything.

• 2:20:47Shawn Ryan?

  When did this happen? What's the timeline here?

• 2:20:49Speaker 06

  2011.

• 2:20:51Shawn Ryan?

  2011.

• 2:20:52Speaker 06

  14 years ago.

• 2:20:58Speaker 06

  Yeah, so that's what's, that's what brought me closer to Christ.

• 2:21:04Speaker 06

  And it's only getting more and more intense or matured over the years.

• 2:21:15Speaker 06

  You know, going to space, there's just moments that you're trying to make sense of everything. And it's just this, it's a battle. It's a, it's a journey. It's, it's challenging because back to that whole, you know, we have free will. We can think, we have the freedom to think anything we want and make the decisions that we want.

• 2:21:38Speaker 06

  But I'm trying to focus my life on making the decisions that, that puts God first and that, you know, it's kind of why I want to speak more at this point in my life is to share my stories. And hopefully God can use me as a voice to get his message out.

• 2:21:59Shawn Ryan?

  Have you had any more experiences?

• 2:22:02Speaker 06

  Nothing that intense.

• 2:22:07Speaker 06

  You know, there were moments on orbit where I'm trying to reflect and, you know, it's this, I had this overwhelming sensation of feeling insignificant on orbit, just looking down, knowing there's eight billion people down there on the planet. And, you know, I'm traveling around every hour and a half and 17,500 miles an hour. And I'm just trying to make sense of it all and, and put significance behind it.

• 2:22:34Speaker 06

  And.

• 2:22:36Speaker 06

  I've been reminded constantly when I get into the word and start reading. It's just like, it's not about me. It's, it's stop making it about you. It's, there's a greater good. There's a greater cause. There's a higher purpose.

• 2:22:52Speaker 06

  I'm just, I'm so stubborn and I, I, I need to learn how to listen better.

• 2:23:00Speaker 06

  Cause that's what I, you know, that's that journey. That's that struggle that I feel is like.

• 2:23:06Speaker 06

  We just constantly bouncing off the bumpers. Through life and it's like, it's selfish endeavors. And then I gotta bring it back to more of a centrally focused faith walk and.

• 2:23:22Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:23:24Speaker 06

  A bit of a ramble.

• 2:23:25Shawn Ryan?

  Well, that's a pretty big experience.

• 2:23:28Speaker 06

  It was for me.

• 2:23:34Shawn Ryan?

  And you, you said your daughter was in there for, they estimate 20 minutes?

• 2:23:37Speaker 06

  No, two to three minutes.

• 2:23:39Shawn Ryan?

  Two, okay.

• 2:23:40Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:23:40Shawn Ryan?

  Where the hell did I get 20 minutes?

• 2:23:41Speaker 06

  Yeah, she was.

• 2:23:42Shawn Ryan?

  We've been two to three minutes. I mean, holy shit.

• 2:23:45Speaker 06

  I mean.

• 2:23:47Speaker 06

  She was blue when I pulled her up. Never felt so helpless in my life, you know? Feel like you're invincible.

• 2:23:53Shawn Ryan?

  What did you do? CPR?

• 2:23:55Speaker 06

  I started, uh, resuscitating. She started, you know, after 30 seconds or so, she starts coughing up and getting a little bit of her color back and she comes to and then we're worried about, you know, brain function at that point, oxygen deprivation and take her to the ER. Like check her out. Absolutely nothing wrong with her. She's a healthy little four-year-old, pigtails.

• 2:24:21Speaker 06

  Yeah. Now she's a pain in the ass 17-year-old.

• 2:24:29Shawn Ryan?

  What do you mean reflection when you're up in space?

• 2:24:36Speaker 06

  I could certainly talk about this when we get to space, but it's, it's, um, they call it the overview effect and it affects people differently. It's the, this, literally, it's, it's a cognitive shift that happens in your perception of, it could be your perception of visual, what you're seeing of the planet, life perspective, it can be spiritual, it can be intellectual.

• 2:25:07Speaker 06

  But when you see the planet from, especially with the altitude that we went to, it's the highest that anyone's been in 50 years since Apollo 17. It's the highest Earth orbit ever flown. And it's, um, and it's almost like this, my immediate response or feeling was like, it's this visual illustration of what life must have been like back at the creation of the heavens and the earth, because all you can see is oceans and continents. You can't make out any details, you know, because when we, that's on the apogee, the furthest part of the orbit, it's, it's, um, heavily cyclical, so it's, um, uh, pretty close on the perigee, the backside was really close, 190 kilometers. So it's 1400 by 190.

• 2:25:52Speaker 06

  So it's, it's very far and then we skim. And when you're skimming the atmosphere, it's like you can see contrails, you can see geographical features, all these land masses and, but up above, it's, it's, it looks like, you know, what the planet must have been looked, looked like its creation.

• 2:26:14Speaker 06

  So when you have this perspective and you're going through this overview effect, it's just,

• 2:26:23Speaker 06

  For me, it was that feeling initially of insignificance and trying to make sense of it all. And it's what's unique, and it's almost like this, and that's why I was so interested in some of your podcasts, like the NDEs, and when Pastor Burke talks about some of the things that he's interviewed, the 1,500 people with the NDE experiences. It's like, and this is by no means anywhere near what they've gone through. But the light, the radiant light projected on the earth versus seeing it from the surface, looking through the atmosphere, and it's filtered by all the different gases.

• 2:27:07Speaker 06

  It's just this radiant glow, and it's almost like this transcendence of your senses. It's not just visual. It's almost like you can feel the radiant glow of the light of the planet. And it's bright, but it's not like looking up at the sun kind of blinding light. It's just this radiant, and it's constantly evolving because you're traveling so fast, and sunrises and sunsets are happening every 90 minutes. Our orbit was 106 minutes, just based on its shape. And it starts off, the phenomenon is called the thin blue line. It's the dawning of a new day.

• 2:27:47Speaker 06

  It's just this arc of a blue purplish hue as the sun starts penetrating the atmosphere. And it just grows and starts to split into this radiant sunbeams, and then it starts to light up the entire planet, and then vice versa on the backside on the sunset, as you see the night start to eat up. And then even at night. So. When, when, at night, you're seeing all the cultural lighting. We saw the northern lights. Saw all the green, beautiful waves. You see all the stars, billions of stars, because you don't have the light pollution that you're used to seeing. The moon, obviously glowing.

• 2:28:31Speaker 06

  You're seeing strings of Starlink fatality systems. And then you have this pulsing of the Draco engines. It's just these constant engines that are firing to keep you oriented in the capsule. Based on, you know, the priorities to point the satellite, uh, the antennas towards the satellite for communication purposes. So that puts out this like constant hues of orange and yellows and, and all of that together, you're just constantly seeing something new. And it's just, it's not something you stare to sunset for five, 10 minutes as the sun goes down.

• 2:29:13Speaker 06

  It's just this constant evolution of, of this radiant glow. And it just feels like it's, it's more than just visual. That makes any sense? Again, it's, I'm having a hard time articulating. It's only been, you know, five, six months since we were up there. And that's, you know, the ISS, they're up there for six months. They're at 400 kilometers. We went an extra thousand kilometers past that. Um, so slightly different perspective.

• 2:29:48Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. Does that, does that strengthen your faith?

• 2:29:56Speaker 06

  100%. I, I am a firm believer, God created everything. I, I don't see how it couldn't. It'd be a sequence of millions and millions of miracles to happen.

• 2:30:20Speaker 06

  You know, you look, you look at the planet and then you look at the other direction. It's intimidating. I mean, it's black. There's the think, what's out there? Endless, you know, it's, that is intimidating.

• 2:30:40Speaker 06

  I'm hoping at some point in my life, I'll make more sense of the experience. And I hope I didn't miss my opportunity while I was there trying to absorb, because we're, you know, you're very operated mindset. It's, you're focused on the mission. We got forty science research experiments. I don't want to screw it up. And we got the spacewalk on day three and the Starlink test going on and all this radiation testing we're going through. And, you know, that's, you got this mission mindset, but

• 2:31:11Speaker 06

  this is also something that very few people have experienced. And I, I hope at some point I can communicate and articulate that impact it had on my perspective.

• 2:31:33Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. See, I don't know, man. You know, we're talking, you know, back to the decision making and all this, you know, killing people, combat. What's it gonna be like when we meet him? You know, things like that.

• 2:31:51Shawn Ryan?

  I just, one, if he was done with you, then I don't think he would have experienced that up there.

• 2:32:00Shawn Ryan?

  You know what I mean?

• 2:32:04Shawn Ryan?

  I think he's still working on everybody, no matter what you've done. And, uh, and it's those experiences that, that draw you to the light. And that, you know, I don't know. I think about this kind of stuff all the time. And I think-

• 2:32:23Speaker 06

  Is he still working on you or is the book's written? You're just-

• 2:32:26Shawn Ryan?

  I think he's-

• 2:32:27Speaker 06

  You're in your next chapter.

• 2:32:30Shawn Ryan?

  I think he's working on you all the way until the end.

• 2:32:42Shawn Ryan?

  It's a tricky world, you know, I think there's only two influences in this world. There's fucking good and there is evil. Mm-hmm. And that's it. And it's kinda weird the way you just described the earth with the lightness and the darkness and continuously rotating, cuz I just, I don't remember who I was talking to or how this even came up. But I described it as...

• 2:33:07Shawn Ryan?

  I was talking to somebody about the end.

• 2:33:11Shawn Ryan?

  Kinda like revelations type stuff, like the end, cuz everybody's all, you know, is the sky falling, are we in end times? I mean, a lot of people think we are and everybody's looking for the signs. And, um, the way I described it was, I think...

• 2:33:31Shawn Ryan?

  I don't think anybody knows when the end is. I mean, even in the Bible, it says, nobody, Jesus doesn't even know when the end is. And the way I kinda like, think it's happening is if you look at like a marble, like a two-tone marble, you know, but maybe it's fluid in there. And the two colors are just constantly fighting each other for what takes over the marble. You know, I think that's very similar to good and evil. And there are times that it looks like evil is potentially taking up more surface area than good. And then, and then things start to change and then you see... Librium? You know what I'm saying?

• 2:34:16Shawn Ryan?

  And I think that's just constant, it's just a constant battle for total control of the planet and what that looks like. And it's, it's, it's the two influences, you know, going to work against each other. And, and even like this conversation right now, you know, that we're having, it's gonna, it's gonna get people thinking. And people that, it's gonna get people thinking that have never thought about that before. And the colors are gonna start to change and, or good is gonna start to overcome more darkness. And, and the way you just described the planet with the, with the, with the light and the dark, I mean, that's kinda how I think of this all, man. And...

• 2:35:01Shawn Ryan?

  And it's just constantly evolving. It's always changing, just like that marble.

• 2:35:10Shawn Ryan?

  Do you know what I mean? Absolutely, and. And, and he knows how tricky evil can be. I mean,

• 2:35:23Shawn Ryan?

  we were both in immersed in a culture where that became the normal. I, I, I got to kill somebody. I finally got the opportunity to kill somebody, or I never got to kill anybody. Mm hmm. You know, and that's,

• 2:35:44Shawn Ryan?

  that's not fucking a good way to think, you know, but I mean, you get, you, you enter into,

• 2:35:54Shawn Ryan?

  we, we, you enter into the military at a young age, you're with all your idols, the people that you wanna be, the, the F-16 pilots, the, that, that have, you know, the lineage, all the way back to World War One, and you wanna live up to what those guys have done. And I've joined the SEAL teams, and I wanna live up to the, to the Vietnam generation and the World War Two guys and, you know, like, like, it's just, it becomes you. It becomes, you, you immerse yourself into that culture, and then it seems good. It seems good. It's a fucking deception. Mm hmm. It's a deception, whether you're doing it for the country, or what it, it, yeah, yeah, we all did it for the country, right?

• 2:36:38Shawn Ryan?

  Well, who says the country's good? Right. You know, and who says that country's bad? And yeah, we can talk about nine eleven and all that kinda stuff, and you know what I mean? But, but, you know, what were we doing there for twenty years? Right.

• 2:36:53Shawn Ryan?

  Twenty fucking years, you know, and so

• 2:36:57Shawn Ryan?

  and so when I say like he's still working on you. I mean. It's not over, you know. You're either gonna succumb to good or you're gonna come to evil and I think. I think there's seasons of it. And when you start steering one way, the other way is trying to pull you back and both of them, you know what I mean? And and and they talk about deception. And how? How Satan is the master of deception? And he can, he can. And he uses, um.

• 2:37:35Shawn Ryan?

  He uses temptation. You know, whether that's money or sex. Or. Living up to a culture, you know, and and and it may seem good. And maybe, you know, maybe it is, but. It's it's it's it's, you know. We're just fucking humans, man.

• 2:37:56Speaker 06

  Yeah, I love that analogy. I mean, my first thought was. And I didn't even. Comprehend it until you mentioned it, but you talk about good and evil, light and dark. I felt this warm glow looking at the planet. Just loved it was mesmerized. I wanted to put my eyes off it. And you look through the Ford hatch towards space and it's just this intimidating. It's almost like you're at that cliff scuba diving. And that black abyss. Over the ledge. You know, you feel a lot more security. Probably where the ambient light's coming from. Um.

• 2:38:35Speaker 06

  Yeah, there's something there I like, um. But how do we, I mean, you talk about that marble and the constant. Whether it's a struggle or, uh.

• 2:38:50Speaker 06

  Not search, but

• 2:38:53Speaker 06

  constant evolution, looking for equilibrium.

• 2:38:58Speaker 06

  And this is rhetorical, but how do we influence more good than evil as that

• 2:39:07Speaker 06

  morph continues to happen with the marble of good and evil?

• 2:39:11Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, that's a good question.

• 2:39:13Speaker 06

  In God's hands.

• 2:39:17Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, they say everything's in God's hands, right? But

• 2:39:22Shawn Ryan?

  it

• 2:39:25Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, I think, you know, we talk about free will, and I think that is that is really the only free will that we have.

• 2:39:33Speaker 06

  It's good and evil?

• 2:39:34Shawn Ryan?

  Is good and evil. You can either choose to believe or choose not to believe. Because everything else is so fucking contorted and twisted and deceptive. You know, it's just so much deception out there. And I think that, that

• 2:39:56Shawn Ryan?

  I think that you cannot

• 2:40:00Shawn Ryan?

  as hard as this sounds, I think you cannot succumb. You cannot sacrifice your values for temptation.

• 2:40:13Shawn Ryan?

  Does that make sense?

• 2:40:14Speaker 06

  You should not, or you physically cannot?

• 2:40:17Shawn Ryan?

  I think you should not. Because that is staying true to yourself, which is good. And

• 2:40:29Shawn Ryan?

  and temptation is everywhere. It's money, it's sex.

• 2:40:32Speaker 06

  That's culture.

• 2:40:34Shawn Ryan?

  It's, it's all of that stuff. And

• 2:40:40Shawn Ryan?

  and you just see people every day, you know, they sacrifice their values.

• 2:40:46Shawn Ryan?

  For temptation and they justify, if you catch yourself justifying, you know,

• 2:40:53Shawn Ryan?

  why you did something or, or, do you know what I'm talking about? And we've all done it, right?

• 2:40:59Speaker 06

  Absolutely.

• 2:40:59Shawn Ryan?

  We've all done it. I did this to this person, probably wasn't that great of a, you know, wasn't a good thing to do, but now I'm stuck in the justification process like the, well, I had to do that because this happened to me and that happened. They did this to me and so I, this is how I justify it or, or, you know, somebody fucked you over or you fucked somebody over and it, and you have to, then, then you catch up justifying or justifying to yourself why, why you made the decisions that you made.

• 2:41:29Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:41:29Shawn Ryan?

  And that alone in itself is, that's succumbing to evil.

• 2:41:34Speaker 06

  Evil. Do you think, I've always tied authenticity to being true to your values. Do you think you can be authentically evil?

• 2:41:48Speaker 06

  Or do you think people are naturally authentically good? And as long as they are authentic, they can maintain true values?

• 2:42:01Shawn Ryan?

  I think that we are

• 2:42:05Shawn Ryan?

  more evil than we are good. Because it takes more effort to be good and not succumb to temptation than it does to be evil and succumb to all that shit.

• 2:42:21Shawn Ryan?

  Because the reward doesn't come until the end.

• 2:42:24Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:42:24Shawn Ryan?

  To be good. The reward to be evil is immediate.

• 2:42:31Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:42:31Shawn Ryan?

  It's an immediate reward.

• 2:42:37Speaker 06

  So we're evil and weak?

• 2:42:47Speaker 06

  Shit on.

• 2:42:52Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. You wanna take a break?

• 2:42:56Speaker 06

  Sure.

• 2:42:57Shawn Ryan?

  Let's take a break.

• 2:43:01Shawn Ryan?

  I'd like to invite you to gain access to an exclusive experience on Vigilance Elite Patreon. Our patrons are the driving force behind the success of this show and their support allows us to keep doing what we do. Depending on the tier you choose, you'll get access to benefits like behind the scenes footage before each interview, early access to episodes, end of the month live Zoom calls with me, exclusive merch, and more. Join us and become a patron starting at just $5 a month by visiting patreon.com/vigilanceelite. That's patreon.com/vigilanceelite.

• 2:43:42Shawn Ryan?

  Thank you for listening to the Sean Ryan Show. If you haven't already, please take a minute, head over to iTunes and leave the Sean Ryan Show a review. We read every review that comes through and we really appreciate the support. Thank you. Let's get back to the show.

• 2:44:03Shawn Ryan?

  That was a good conversation.

• 2:44:04Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:44:07Speaker 06

  I have a lot to think about.

• 2:44:11Speaker 06

  And I'm 51.

• 2:44:16Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah. Yeah, that was heavy.

• 2:44:19Shawn Ryan?

  Where were we?

• 2:44:21Speaker 06

  I have no idea.

• 2:44:22Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:26Shawn Ryan?

  Any more thoughts on that?

• 2:44:29Speaker 06

  Plenty.

• 2:44:34Speaker 06

  But that's what he's doing. He's at work.

• 2:44:38Speaker 06

  You know?

• 2:44:41Speaker 06

  He's got my attention, that's for sure. I just wish I could...

• 2:44:45Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, he's trying to save us from this.

• 2:44:50Shawn Ryan?

  That's the whole thing.

• 2:44:51Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:44:51Shawn Ryan?

  Right?

• 2:44:55Speaker 06

  Well, look how stubborn the prophets were, man. Had a tough time listening and he's telling them outright, "I'm gonna die for your sins." And they had a hard time believing. And they were with him, you know? Thankfully, we do have the stories in the Bible.

• 2:45:24Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, you know, he just, he sprinkles these things in our lives like, like your daughter, you know? And it's, and that sounds like a very profound moment, you know? Not just because you saved your daughter's life, but spiritually, you know? It's, we're all looking for some type of proof, right? And, because it is, it's hard to believe this stuff. It's, it's just, it is. And, but when you get those little, sometimes they're not always little, sometimes they slap you in the face, just like what happened to you. I mean, that's, that's what that is. It's, in my opinion, that's what that is.

• 2:46:09Shawn Ryan?

  That is, here's what you needed, you know? So that you can believe. And from what I've noticed in my journey, and I'm not very far along in this either, it sounds like our childhood was very similar. I mean, I grew up Catholic and I didn't really, you know? It was a hassle to go to church. I didn't want to go. Didn't want to go to Sunday school. I didn't want to do any of that. And I never, I never took it seriously until what? I guess about two years ago, you know? And ever since then, like I just...

• 2:46:48Shawn Ryan?

  I'm just always paying attention and I see.

• 2:46:52Shawn Ryan?

  Now I even see little things that get that get dropped, you know? And and I just look at them like, oh, that's. All right, I'm on the right path or.

• 2:47:09Shawn Ryan?

  That's the sign that I needed and I think it happens all the time.

• 2:47:16Speaker 06

  Absolutely, but we just don't, we don't have the humility.

• 2:47:20Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:47:20Speaker 06

  To listen. We think we have all the answers.

• 2:47:23Shawn Ryan?

  Yep.

• 2:47:25Shawn Ryan?

  Or we're so distracted in our own.

• 2:47:28Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:47:29Shawn Ryan?

  Bullshit that we're not. It's impossible to see it because we're not, we're not looking and so the.

• 2:47:39Shawn Ryan?

  You know, the more I can get out of the noise and and start paying attention. It's just like having your eyes wide open, you know, everywhere. They can, they come, they come all the time.

• 2:47:54Shawn Ryan?

  It's pretty cool, pretty cool stuff. Especially when you know it's real and you know what it is.

• 2:48:01Speaker 06

  And you're convicted.

• 2:48:03Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:48:05Speaker 06

  It's just building that conviction is what's tough.

• 2:48:12Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, though.

• 2:48:14Shawn Ryan?

  That stuff that you were talking about with Earth, no, that that this may be, I just had that conversation or just use that marble reference like. I think it was last weekend. I can't remember who the hell I was talking to, but.

• 2:48:28Shawn Ryan?

  That's just how I envision it, you know, that's just how I envision what's going on in the world and how it's all. How it all plays out.

• 2:48:37Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 2:48:38Shawn Ryan?

  But.

• 2:48:41Shawn Ryan?

  But what got you, so what got you interested in becoming an astronaut anyways?

• 2:48:48Speaker 06

  Um, relationships that I'd built and fostered over, over the years. Um, when I was coming off the Thunderbird assignment, I met a gentleman by the name of Jared Isaacman, um, very successful entrepreneur, um, no military background, but, um, started his, his very successful multi-billion dollar, uh, payment processing company, parents basement when he was 16. Um, his passion has always been aviation. So, um, he progressed, started the hobby early, 18 years old, and just worked his way up in the civilian world.

• 2:49:28Speaker 06

  Um, and he started a civilian airshow demonstration team. Former fighter pilots, former Thunderbirds, and I was not a part of that, but I had met them while they were doing airshows, just through the community. Um, and then that's when I first met Jared. And then a couple of years later, I'm the commander of the aggressor squadron for the air force. So there's two units within the air force that have dedicated missions of, of doing adversary support. Opt for just replicating the bad guys, China, Russia tactics, and, um, that's your sole purpose in life. Versus, and there's only two units, one in Vegas and one in Alaska.

• 2:50:12Speaker 06

  Otherwise, if you're like stationed in Italy or Korea, you're, you're generating your own bad guys organically. So you'd be in your F-16, you'd dumb it down and, and simulate foreign tactics, threat tactics, help me train, and then we'd swap roles next day. It's not a very good use of resources. Um, but there's two units dedicated to, to do this, uh, and, and one's in Vegas where we have a lot of the red flag exercises, the big coalition exercises. The weapon school is located there. So there's a lot of reasons why people go to Vegas to, to train. Airspace is good, Area 51 area, um.

• 2:50:53Speaker 06

  And I was the commander of that um organization. So that's that was my job. Um, and his airshow gig went on for about two years. And he wanted to do something bigger. And he's always been a patriot. Service has been a big part of, you know, who he is. And he had the resources to kind of, you know, develop some of this um uh novel ideas. And one of them was, let's, let's turn this fleet of fighters doing airshows into a commercial adversary organization. And now we can provide this service to the military, DOD, Air Force, Navy, Army in a

• 2:51:38Speaker 06

  casserole and um and the Marines. And it's going to be a fraction of the cost. So instead of doing it organically, all over the world, you know, twenty grand an hour at the cheapest, let's do something where it's a fraction of the cost, using old fleets of fighters that he will acquire, A4s, L159s, F1s. Countries that are either disbanding their fleets of old fighter jets, not that there's not a big market out there, people, there's not many customers. Um, or they're upgrading their fleet of generation aircraft to the next level.

• 2:52:18Speaker 06

  Um, so he goes out proactively and and acquires a fleet from New Zealand, a fleet from Czech Republic, from Spain, from France, and builds the largest privately owned fleet of fighter jets. Wow. Um, and this is while I was an aggressor. So we had a little bit of interaction. He's just bouncing ideas off me and just seeing if it's, you know, what what's the likelihood of the Air Force, you know, interested in this kind of concept? Um, and so he builds this company, you know, build it and they will come, kind of before he even had a contract. And um they did put in a lot of hard work and and eventually, when I retired, I was

• 2:53:00Speaker 06

  coming off of Afghanistan, I'm like, the last thing I want to do is go fly airlines. That's a typical career path coming out of the military. And long story short, my wife was diagnosed with cancer when I was deployed, right before I was deployed.

• 2:53:16Speaker 06

  And she's got to pick up the family, a ten, an eight, and a six-year-old, move from a foreign country back to the US, establish care in Boston with her oncologist, and her husband's deployed to combat zone. So God bless her and her service to her country. So I was coming off of Afghanistan, and the last thing I wanted to do is go fly airlines. It's not my, it's not my jam. I, I needed to do something different. So he was building this company, and I'm like, hey, you got any room for an old fighter pilot? Because

• 2:53:56Speaker 06

  I was staring at like, if I stayed in the military, beyond 20. It's, you know, Colonel, you're gonna, one year remote here, and a joint staff here, and you have less and less control over your career. And we didn't know what Christian's future was gonna look like with, with her issues. So he brings me on the team, and he secures a contract with the Air Force, just a basic proof-of-concept contract. And that just ignited the industry, turned into a $6 billion. It's like four primary players in this field, and they would just acquire all these fleets of aging fighters, kind of sweeten them up with, with better

• 2:54:37Speaker 06

  avionics, more capability. But the platform was, was still kind of a third generation, fourth generation. So it gave more iron in the sky for F-22s and F-35s to train against. So we, we, we established this first contract in Vegas, started supporting the Super Bowl of all Super Bowls, red flag exercises and weapon school. And we did that for about five years. That was a blast. But I was, I started offline, but I'm like, I kinda wanted to do something different. So I got involved in the business development side. So I did

• 2:55:16Speaker 06

  that for about five years. He ends up selling the company, because he's going public with his, with his other company. And as soon as he left, the, the culture changed. And I lasted about a month, and I'm like, I'm out. And so he pulls me over to shift four, to do business development, or a strategy.

• 2:55:43Speaker 06

  Fish out of water. So I was doing fintech, trying to figure it all out. Just learning from him and his team. And they're recent recently gone public. It's kind of a big deal company. But he started having conversations with SpaceX. So he starts building this relationship. And it ended up being the the first opportunity for a commercial flight. The first all civilian mission to space. So he secures the relationship and the contract for this mission.

• 2:56:27Speaker 06

  And, you know, he's got a core of individuals like me and he brings this all together and he's like, hey, here's here's my vision. And, you know, we're all excited. We might get to go to space. And he's like, no, this is not taking your buddies fishing. You know, this is something bigger. We're gonna, we're gonna make an impact with this. So that's where we started to develop and this was 2020, right in the middle of COVID. We came up with this concept of the first all civilian mission of space. We're going to randomly select this crew. And within six months, we're going to train them for space.

• 2:57:09Speaker 06

  Take elements of NASA's training because they take three to four years before they go to space. So we obviously don't have that luxury and resources. So and and commercial space is about to make this huge paradigm shift in their philosophy. There's only been, there was only two, I think, civilians that had been to space. One on a Soyuz or both on a Soyuz, I think. I'm not sure. Someone's going to fact check me on that one. But but this was like, this is the big deal. And so we randomly selected his crew and we wanted to partner with a nonprofit. So we could have a continued impact, positive impact on life on earth.

• 2:57:55Speaker 06

  So we, well, back up even a second, once he pitched this idea, I'm doing whole fintech VP of strategy. I'm like, I'll do whatever you want. This is more up my alley. And so I, I take on the role as the mission director.

• 2:58:13Speaker 06

  That's a little false humility on my part and the fact that a mission director sits in mission control and controls. That's not what I was doing. I was doing all the legwork, the coordination, the fundraising, logistics, sitting through the training. But more is just because I was doing all these cats and dogs. So to, to, we ended up partnering with St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. Um, because he's, he's done other, um, he's supported Make-A-Wish. He just, this means a lot to him. Um, and we had this platform and this opportunity to, to continue to improve life on earth. But let's, you know, let's explore what's out there as well.

• 2:58:59Speaker 06

  Um, so we ended up giving one seat to St. Jude.

• 2:59:03Speaker 06

  Um, and then we were going to do a sweepstakes for another seat and a contest for the fourth seat. So we end up selecting, um, Christmas, I think it was either right after, day after Christmas or not. We, we have a conversation with the CEO at St. Jude and we end up giving one seat to Haley Arseneau. I think she was 28 at the time. She was a, um, cancer survivor. She beat cancer when she was 10. And, um, she went on to be a physician's assistant at St. Jude because they saved her life. Great story. She's, she's a rock star. Um, uh, so we picked her and then we did a sweepstakes, the Super Bowl commercial in 21.

• 2:59:46Speaker 06

  And that kicked off our sweepstakes to raise money for St. Jude. Everything 100% for St. Jude. Whatever we made in this project was St. Jude. Ends up being $250 million. Wow. Um, and you know, less than, you know, six month period. So we do sweepstakes 30 days and then we're going to randomly pull a name out of the hat.

• 3:00:11Speaker 06

  And, you know, and each seat had a quality or concept behind it. Leadership, hope, generosity, and prosperity were the three seats, if you will. Jared's leadership, hope was Haley, generosity was the sweepstakes, donations, and come to find out, we picked a name out of a hat.

• 3:00:37Speaker 06

  And the individual who was selected medically disqualified himself.

• 3:00:44Speaker 06

  And so, based on his generosity, he's like, I gotta give the seat back. I can't do this flight, but I appreciate them. And we're like, no, this is your seat. You can do whatever you want with it. And so, he actually, through his generosity, gives it to one of his buddies, who also made a donation, and that was Chris Sombrowski. And then, we did a contest for the last seat. And that's the whole, you know, he was an entrepreneur. He had many opportunities, or he, you know, through his hard work, created opportunities and entrepreneurship. And that, he's a big believer in that, so we had a contest. You know, someone who was starting a small business.

• 3:01:27Speaker 06

  And we, social media helped us, all these marketing companies helped us. And we, a panel of celebrities picked, you know, the best video promoting their small business. So, Dr. Cyan Proctor was the individual picked for that seat. So, the crew is set, it's like, end of February, beginning of March. Immediately, pick them up, take them to training. And over the next, less than six months, they go through training. And we do various things for the training. Centrifuge, the altitude chamber for pressure altitude, just getting an idea of your hypoxic symptoms and stuff like that. And then, all the simulator training.

• 3:02:12Speaker 06

  We climbed Mount Rainier for

• 3:02:16Speaker 06

  Some experiential training, some of the things that astronauts already do. We just kind of fighter jets, we train them. Jared and I obviously flew and the other two crew members. Or, yeah, we'd swap the three in our backseats. So we'd give them experience in fighter jets and blah, blah. So we go, we do this and it's hair on fire for six months, just coming and going constantly. Going to headquarters, SpaceX headquarters in LA. Uh, we go to Johnson Space Center for training with NASA, collaboration elements. And then we go to Kennedy Space Center, Cape Canaveral, because all human space flights out of there.

• 3:02:55Speaker 06

  Um, majority of launches, almost 95% of them, there's been a couple that weren't off of pad 39 Alpha. But it's the historic one, Shuttles, Apollo, um, right there in Cape Canaveral. Um, and then they go to space. Um, they spent three days in orbit. Um, very successful, splashdown in the Atlantic and, and, you know, we wrap it up in September. Um, did a Netflix documentary called Countdown, five-part series, kind of explains the entire project. It's pretty cool. Um, the week or the, the month leading up to their launch, conversations about

• 3:03:36Speaker 06

  the next project began because we're having too much fun. Um, but this is, we never do things, it's, it's always what's the next step up? Um, and so we started to formulate, um, a program, uh, which became the Polaris program. Um, which is a three-part, up to three missions. And it's a, it's a developmental spaceflight program. And, uh, this is analogous to Project Gemini. So if you look at NASA's history, you got initial spaceflight with Project Mercury. Proved that we could get to space.

• 3:04:17Speaker 06

  Um, and then you leapfrog, that was the 50s, and then leapfrog over to the late 60s and 70s when we went to the moon. You got the Apollo program. Well, in between there, in the 60s, over a five-year span, there's 12 missions called Project Gemini. And the purpose behind that developmental program was to solve some big challenges. They had to figure out how to dock vehicles in space, to do a spacewalk, to do long-duration missions, longer-duration missions than Mercury, multi-crew missions. These are all things they had to solve before they headed to the moon. So in a similar fashion, we kind of built the Polaris program off of a developmental concept,

• 3:05:00Speaker 06

  where we're helping identify what challenges does SpaceX and other companies face trying to get back to the lunar surface and Mars and beyond.

• 3:05:13Speaker 06

  The first two missions of the Polaris program are aboard the Falcon 9 with the Dragon Castle. And then the third flight is supposed to be the first human spaceflight of Starship, which might be launching in the next couple hours, Test Flight 8. Wow. Largest rocket ever built, bigger than Saturn V. That's the vehicle that I believe will go back to the moon and that will go to Mars.

• 3:05:39Speaker 06

  So that's the idea behind the Polaris program. And then the first mission we did in September is called Polaris Dawn.

• 3:05:47Speaker 06

  And based on our conversations with SpaceX and Elon about what do we want to accomplish, again, what challenges?

• 3:05:55Speaker 06

  Well, we got to do a spacewalk. The idea is that we want hundreds, if not thousands, of people bouncing on the surface of the moon. We got to build a spacesuit.

• 3:06:05Speaker 06

  So, and we got to do a spacewalk. So let's do the first commercial spacewalk. Well, we're pushing the envelope, so let's extend the capabilities of the Falcon 9 and the Dragon Castle and go further and faster, you know, further and further than anyone has been in over 50 years. And you know, what came out of that is let's set the Earth orbit altitude record. It was originally set by Gemini 11 back in 1966. Pete Conrad and Dick Gordon went up to 1368 kilometers. Put that in context, the station's right around 400.

• 3:06:45Speaker 06

  Starlink's right around 350, 300, 350 kilometers. Where do we want to go? Well, ideally, let's, let's go touch the lower portions of the Van Allen Belt. Higher radiation level caused by the gravitational pull. And let's just, let's push the envelope. So it was about the spacewalk, it was about the altitude. And then communication is a big challenge, especially when we talk about going to Mars. Eight months, you know, the broadband requirements and the latency issues. Imagine sending back a combite that's 30 minutes old, if not hours. What's, it becomes obsolete at that point.

• 3:07:29Speaker 06

  You've already solved whatever issue you're working on or your situation is a hell of a lot worse. So Starlink is the future of communication with it being laser based. Let's see if we can get it to work from space for the very first time. Works on Earth, great. We would take these dishes. We actually took some to the Ukraine in the beginning of the war to drop off. So St. Jude Satellite Hospitals, because they were getting destroyed in the beginning. So they had to relocate and take all these patients and kids to Poland and Macedonia. We delivered some, some Starlinks.

• 3:08:10Speaker 06

  So St. Jude could set up their hospitals and have telecommunications or telemedicine capability with doctors back at, at Memphis. So works on Earth. We got to figure out if it works on, in, in, in space, which was a cosmic feat in and of itself for the engineers to figure that one out. And then, oh, by the way, we're going to be up there for five days. That's the life of. You know, that's about as long as you can exist up there in that capsule alone, not docking with a space station. Um, let's fill it with science and research.

• 3:08:49Speaker 06

  And we'll focus those forty experiments on, again, what are the challenges the human body faces for these longer duration missions in the future? Because that's going to be the, you know, kid's opinion. That's the biggest lim fact. Limiting factor is going to be the human body. Because austere environment of space is, it's tough. You know, besides being a vacuum, you got to deal with zero gravity, loneliness, psychological issues, just, we are meant for one G on Earth. Yeah. So, so those were the four main objectives. Um, and then we spent three years training for those objectives. How did you get picked?

• 3:09:31Speaker 06

  Um, so based on my contributions during Inspiration Four, and the fact that I had operational test background, I did a lot of tests. Um, there's a unit called the four two two testing evaluation squadron at Nellis where we do, um, we test new weapons, new software, uh, new computer systems and on the platform. It's not a test pilot Chuck Yeager type developmental test. That's done at Edwards. That's done testing on platform. This is more specific to weapons and, and software upgrades and capabilities. So I've had background experience in doing operational test.

• 3:10:14Speaker 06

  And this being a test program, it, it, it was kind of a logical fit. I caveat that with, there are plenty of people in this world that could have been in my seat. I, I know I'm very blessed to have this opportunity and again, God's influence for sure, um, especially going through the training. Um, because you got Jared, uh, very experienced astronaut, been in space already, already highly intellectual individual, knows these systems inside and out. And oh, by the way, we're, we're going up in the same capsule he's already been up in. So he's, he's, he didn't even have to study. He does because he's a dedicated individual, but.

• 3:11:00Speaker 06

  And then we have our two other crew members and we kind of, this is a collaboration partnership with SpaceX. So we gave two seats to SpaceX. Um, and we selected Sarah Gillis and Anna Menon. And they were both engineers that were involved in the first mission. So Sarah, she was graduate, CU Boulder, one of the smartest individuals I've ever met. She was hired as a SpaceX engineer to be the lead astronaut trainer. So she teaches astronauts how to operate the vehicle. So she knows the systems inside and out. In fact, she's teaching our instructors things as we go through this program.

• 3:11:43Speaker 06

  And then Anna Menon, um, she's got a master's in biomedical engineering. She used to work at NASA. And she was hired by SpaceX to, to pretty much write the procedures. The nominal procedures, contingencies for our vehicle. So again, these two know the systems inside and out. And then you got Kit, outdoor education, barely graduates college. So I know my place.

• 3:12:11Speaker 06

  It kind of tainted my, my attitude or approach in the beginning. And it took some failed training events to, to wake me up. And that kind of gets back to that whole, it's not about me. There's, there's, there's a lot riding on this. And I need to step up because I'm being way too reliant upon my crew to pull me along. Cause you know, we go into this program, it's developmental. We only have three years to, to focus on these huge milestones. So it's like, hey, we're going to assume everyone's knowledge is right around here. We're only going to focus on this, this top tier stuff. And I'm kind of going along, get along. I'm also, I have this fear of failure, fear of judgment and doubt.

• 3:12:56Speaker 06

  Not that they would ever judge me, but it's like.

• 3:13:01Speaker 06

  I'm hanging on and I'm, you know, when I'm asked questions, it's like I'll deflect with humor. I'll respond questions with questions.

• 3:13:12Speaker 06

  Phone a friend. Use way too much leverage on the crew. Not fully grasping, hey, this takes a full team. This takes all four crew members because there might be situations where, you know, they lean on me in time of need. And if I fail them because I didn't get my game where it needs to be, this could go really bad and, you know, my wake up call was actually, you know, it was a training scenario. We're in the simulator. There's, there's kind of three levels of training that we did. We did physiological training. That's the centrifuge, the altitude chamber, the vacuum chamber, the zero G flights.

• 3:13:53Speaker 06

  There's the, um, the practical training that we went through, experiential, mountaineering, um, scuba diving, skydiving, flying fighter jets. And then there's the procedural where we spent a majority of our time in the simulator. And they would give us very difficult situations, scenarios, you know, some very unlikely, but you know, it's to test our knowledge and our experience and our teamwork and all that stuff. And one of the scenarios was Jared is incapacitated. For whatever reason, he's out. And now we got to do an emergency deorbit. And based on the configuration of the cockpit or the capsule, there's three displays and Jared and I sit in the middle as the commander, the pilot. And we are the only ones with access to those three screens.

• 3:14:38Speaker 06

  And that's where all the systems and procedures are. And then the outboard seats, Seren and I, mission specialists, they, they can't see the screens when they're strapped in their seat. You know, 90% of the mission, we're, we're out of our seats floating around and doing whatever. And you have access to the screens. You just float underneath and. Well, Jared's incapacitated. Well, in nominal procedures, he's doing everything and I'm backing him up. I'm just kind of verifying what he's doing action wise and checks and balances. Well, he's out. So kids there to save the day and I fail miserably. It's most humbling experience because I can't keep up. I make the wrong decisions.

• 3:15:21Speaker 06

  I can't rely upon these two because they can't see what I'm looking at on the screen. It was just, it was an epic fail. And that was the attitude adjustment that I had. I'm like, I gotta step up. I gotta, I gotta change. I gotta be more humble. You know, have more humility in the fact that I need to rely upon my, and be honest with my weaknesses and lean on my crew members. Because they gotta get, help me get my knowledge where it needs to be. And I need to be, I need to be authentic in the fact that if I'm going to set goals to get my knowledge to where it needs to be, I gotta be true to myself and, and know where my limits are. But it's, it's got to get to a certain threshold if, if, you know.

• 3:16:05Speaker 06

  Because again, getting back to this is hundred percent. This is zero fail. We have to, you know, have mission success or we're going to set the entire space exploration program, not just SpaceX, but everybody back. And it, you know, we're doing things, we're doing some crazy shit.

• 3:16:25Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:16:26Speaker 06

  Um, anyways, that's a lot.

• 3:16:28Shawn Ryan?

  That's it, that, wow. And how long was this timeline? Three years?

• 3:16:33Speaker 06

  Three years. We were supposed to launch. It, the big, the biggest challenge, and talking about space, I go on all day long, um, how smart these people are. Um, the long pole in the tent was the development of the EVA suit. So they had to build a brand new suit that, you know, the IVA suit they wear to and from the station. It's, it's meant to pressurize in, in the case of a, um, a depress situation and keep astronauts alive. But it's not, and it meant intentionally to go outside of the capsule in the vacuum of space. So they had to build a new suit.

• 3:17:14Speaker 06

  So they took the prototype, the, the IVA suit and spent years enhancing, you know, with a big focus on thermals. Cause it's 250 degree plus or minus swing when you're either in the sun or in the eclipse of the.

• 3:17:30Shawn Ryan?

  Wow.

• 3:17:31Speaker 06

  So it's plus or minus 250 degrees. Um.

• 3:17:35Speaker 06

  Mobility is a concern because it's pressurized. So, and we had to come up with a way to bring the entire capsule down to vacuum. Cause we don't have the luxury of an airlock like they have in the space station. So we have to bring the entire capsule, which means we're all four going to be pressurized, which has never been done before, never had four astronauts involved in the same spacewalk. So we had to come up with this novel pre-breathe approach profile where we're going to bring the, the, the pressure down in the capsule, increase the oxygen levels. Cause we're all, we're trying to mitigate the risk of DCS. What's DCS?

• 3:18:20Speaker 06

  Decompression sickness, nitrogen bubbles, scuba concerns. Because if we, if we do it too rapidly or, cause, cause on the, on the space station and the airlock, they're going to pre-breathe a hundred percent oxygen and it's going to purge all those nitrogen bubbles out of your system. So DCS isn't a huge concern. It's still minor, but it's not huge. We don't have enough gas, oxygen onboard to purge our entire system. So we have to come up with this stair step approach where we'll increase the oxygen, mitigate the risk, bring the pressure down. So we get closer and closer. So we're, we're climatizing the body to those lower pressures with increased oxygen levels

• 3:19:03Speaker 06

  and we're not eating up our, our gas consumption too soon. Anyways, um, so, uh, back to the suit. Their big focus in the development of, over that three-year period was thermals, mobility. They came up with these new funky joints, um, uh, certain bearings on all these joints to have mobility because you want it pliable. When you're not pressurized, you want to be able to move. You know, it's a one piece. It's got a big old spiral zipper around the waist. It's just a zipper, you know, you just cinch it down as, as maybe almost like a dry suit.

• 3:19:43Speaker 06

  But it handles pressure. So we were just over five PSI delta. So as we're coming down, you know, we're at 14.7, let's see, at, you know, sea level. And then, you know, as you go up to the Mount Everest, it's, I don't know where it's at, you know, nine, 10 PSI. And then eventually you're going to work it down till, you know, you can't survive anymore. And that pressure delta is always going to be a plus five. So as long as we maintain that plus five, the suit's pressurized and we can bring it all the way down to a vacuum and then open the hatch and go outside.

• 3:20:23Speaker 06

  And so that was a big focus is coming up with all these different thermal layers, like 12 different layers, the visor had to be changed. They added a helmet mounted site or yeah, more of a HUD, not a queuing system. We didn't laser. It just projected like pressure, temperature, duration.

• 3:20:47Speaker 06

  Like a heads up display? Yeah. Okay. It's exactly what it was. A little monocle. And it's just, this team was insane. They would, it's like a monster garage. So they would piecemeal. I'd be walking around this Frankenstein suit. This glove is, this arm is completely different and this bearing's different. And we would be trying out all the stuff. We'd go home on Friday, we'd fly back on Monday for more training and it's completely revamped. Hey, we're going to try out this HUD with this monocle, see what you like, give us some feedback. And, and this was what it was like over the course of, of two and a half years going through this program is developing. And you look at the, the initial,

• 3:21:25Speaker 06

  like, holy shit, I'm going to space in this suit to the final product. It was like, it was insane. Damn. And that took. You know, decades for other EVA suits to be developed and billion dollar programs. This was done on, you know, millions, I don't know how much it costs, but in, in two and a half years. Granted, I mean, it's umbilical, so we're attached to the vehicle to pump in that oxygen, nitrogen, nitrox. But full faith and confidence, this is only, you know, it's probably revamped, you know, it's been six months.

• 3:22:05Speaker 06

  They're probably on, you know, version six, six to nine at this point on a new suit. And they'll come up with some self-contained. They, they got it, you know, they're. Wow. Like, I was like, I'm like the 51 year, I'm like the oldest dude. Um, they're all like 20 something, 30 year olds. Brilliant, brilliant, very passionate. I just, I love that organization because Elon and Gwen, they, they set the vision. There's no doubt this is the vision for the organization. But they're very flat, um, structure where everyone is empowered.

• 3:22:44Speaker 06

  And everyone feels empowered and that just breeds and fosters this environment of, of passion. So, you know, they're willing to work those long hours and long days because they're, they're doing things that are changing the world. You know, Starlink and, um, everything they're doing at SpaceX and, and, uh, what they're able to accomplish in such a short period. And, and they have this, you know, the fail fast mentality. Like when you see Starship, if it blows up, it blows up, doesn't matter. We're going to learn so much from that and they'll take it and make the next. Damn. Version even better. So.

• 3:23:28Shawn Ryan?

  What do you tell on your family? They gotta be worried about this, right?

• 3:23:33Speaker 06

  I, I, I'll tell you, it was. Yeah. We had our moments. It was, it was tough.

• 3:23:42Speaker 06

  Yeah. Deploying to combat is one thing. You know, when you intentionally sign up to go to space on a developmental test spaceflight.

• 3:23:55Speaker 06

  Especially when you thought we were into our retirement years.

• 3:24:02Speaker 06

  Yeah, it was, it was tough.

• 3:24:06Speaker 06

  God bless her for, for hanging on and putting up with me.

• 3:24:09Shawn Ryan?

  Is she glad you did it?

• 3:24:11Speaker 06

  Um. Yeah, I mean, certainly.

• 3:24:16Speaker 06

  Pride is not a great thing to, to, uh.

• 3:24:21Speaker 06

  But she's proud of, of all the accomplishments and what we did and she's very thankful it's over, obviously, and I'm safe. Like I said, she's, she's a believer and she knew it was in God's hands. But it's still a leap of faith, especially watching that rocket go off.

• 3:24:40Speaker 06

  Being strapped to that rocket is an unwavering level of trust. Cause I'm not in control, you know, fighter jet.

• 3:24:47Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:24:48Speaker 06

  I'm doing the inputs, I can control that. And oh, by the way, if shit's not working out, I can punch any jet.

• 3:24:57Speaker 06

  Rocket ships a lot different.

• 3:24:59Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, what's, I mean, how, okay, so how long did it take you to get up there?

• 3:25:06Speaker 06

  So, um.

• 3:25:07Shawn Ryan?

  And how, how exactly did this go? Was the spacewalk at the same altitude as the?

• 3:25:13Speaker 06

  No, everything was done different altitudes.

• 3:25:18Speaker 06

  Highly elliptical, meaning we was, we'd go far and then pass on the backside really close. So 1400 kilometers by 190. Um, our entry, um, altitude was 1200 by 190. So that was just to kind of go through some checks in the systems. And then after a couple of orbits, we bumped up. We did some phase burns to get up to that 1400. We set the record. We did about eight orbits at that altitude to do some, um, radiation testing. Um, and then we brought it back down to 750 ish. And that's where we did the spacewalk.

• 3:26:03Shawn Ryan?

  So was that the last thing?

• 3:26:04Speaker 06

  No, that was day three. So it was five days. So the first day bleeding into the, the second day was the altitudes. And then we phased down immediately. And then the third day is when we did the spacewalk. Uh, and then the rest of the days were all assigned some research, Starlink testing, everything else.

• 3:26:24Shawn Ryan?

  Um, let's walk, let's walk. So initial entry into space.

• 3:26:31Speaker 06

  So even

• 3:26:31Shawn Ryan?

  Kind of touched on this earlier.

• 3:26:32Speaker 06

  I mean, even the, even strapping in, you know, I, I don't know if I told you, it's, it produces 1.7 million pounds of thrust. So that's equivalent of, of 70 F16s, 69 F16s. Cause I'm a fighter pilot. Um, one F16 is Mach 2, 1500 miles an hour, pulling nine Gs. This thing is like the equivalent of 70. And what's the big delta, people ask me, what's it like comparing a fighter versus a, a, you know, spaceship, um, spaceship, is

• 3:27:08Speaker 06

  I'm in control in a fighter. So if I'm not digging the G forces, I can ease off. In a spacecraft, it just continues to accelerate. Don't give a shit how you feel. And it's different G forces. So in a fighter jet, it's head to toe. This is the Z axis, I believe. So it's centrifugal force that, you know, when you pull back on that stick, it's centrifugal force that causes that G force. And that pooling of the blood in lower extremities, the fear of passing out because the blood leaves the brain. It's why you wear the G suit and do the G strain to kind of restrict that blood flow. That is a lot different because in a spaceship, based on the orientation of the seat, the G forces is through the chest.

• 3:27:52Speaker 06

  So it's this, and it builds up to about four and a half Gs. And so once you, you know, right before liftoff, this rocket is alive. It's venting, it's hissing, it's making all these knocks and pings. It's swaying. So the Strombeck gets retracted and it's just sitting there balancing, just waiting to go. And you can feel this sway.

• 3:28:16Shawn Ryan?

  Oh, man.

• 3:28:19Speaker 06

  And all you're doing is watching the clock. You're strapped in, I mean, they cinch on you. You know, in a pilot 13, you put your foot on your, yank it. And they don't, they don't mess up the suit, but it's pretty damn tight and visors down and, you know, here we go.

• 3:28:35Shawn Ryan?

  How long are you in there before takeoff? Or before launch? What do you call it, launch?

• 3:28:41Speaker 06

  That's, that's a whole different story. I have an old man bladder.

• 3:28:45Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, I was wondering that. I mean, besides that, I mean, I don't know how you were in pre-mission, going to combat. But me, I feel like I gotta pee like every, every two minutes. Like, oh shit, I gotta go again. Oh shit, I gotta go. Like, then you hear the helos, oh yeah, I've got to go.

• 3:29:06Speaker 06

  People always ask me, what was, were you scared? But that's a lot of anticipation. Dude, I I wasn't scared. I was scared about drowning in my own pee. I peed eight times. Cause we we went delay after delay for weather. And I would, I couldn't hold it. So I'm, you know, we wear these, they're called mags, maximum absorbency garment. Depends. And I went eight times and I'm drenched and I'm freezing. I got trench foot. It's just like pooling.

• 3:29:40Speaker 06

  It's like I'm in the middle of this and I'm freezing my butt off, shaking. I'm literally just shivering. I'm like, please, let's just get to space so I can get into some warm clothes. And then I'm thinking to myself, zero gravity. Is this gonna float up into my helmet?

• 3:29:58Speaker 06

  You just see the the headline now, astronaut drowns in his own hang. He, I don't know. Um, so that's what was going through my mind during this launch phase. Um, but back to the launch, it just, you know, that once the clock expires, those nine Merlin engines, they just, they just come alive. And it's like an earthquake. It just shakes your world. You know, you can't concentrate on anything. It's just. And it's like slow mo, cause it just lifts off and it just slowly starts to build and accelerate and faster and faster. And the first, first uh, segment is two and a half minutes.

• 3:30:37Speaker 06

  And you're watching the clock and you're watching your, your profile and you're going up, um, it's a inclination of fifty one point six degrees and it takes you right up the coastline. And the reason why is, is if anything happens, the capsule will eject out the booster and splash down in the Atlantic Ocean. So you have all those resources along the coast versus going directly out, you know, over the Atlantic and now you're in the middle of the ocean and you know, you never get recovered kind of thing. Um.

• 3:31:04Speaker 06

  So it just, it's accelerating and you're going faster and faster and faster. And two and a half minutes is you're waiting for Miko, main engine cutoff. And the G-forces start to build up and it's, it's four and a half G's. So it just feels like somebody is just sitting on your chest. And there's a lot of pressure on the neck, so it's hard to talk and breathe. And it's just, it's an endurance event. So in a fighter jet, it's just you pulse nine G's and you deplete your energy state. So you can't, can sustain nine G's. But four and a half or two, for, for two and a half minutes is, is fairly intense. And then Miko happens and when Miko happens, it's just a big ol' boom.

• 3:31:43Speaker 06

  And you get launched forward in your straps and you float because of that de-acceleration. Because that, you know, you're no longer connected to the booster. And you're waiting for the separation to happen and it's the longest 10 seconds of your life. Because you have to have the adequate separation for the second stage to light. This is a big ol' Merlin vacuum engine. It's only one engine, but it's massive, 220,000 pounds of thrust for one engine. And as soon as that light, it, as soon as that engine light, it's just a bam, you're back in the seat. And now you're, you're on a six-minute ride. And those G-forces build back up to four and a half. And now you're just on this trajectory. Eventually you get to about 200 kilometers and you, you level off because you're kind of above the atmosphere.

• 3:32:28Speaker 06

  And you're just accelerating and you're trying to get as fast as possible. And you get up to 17,500 miles an hour is, is orbital velocity. This keeps you in orbit, otherwise you get pulled back down into earth. Because gravity is constantly pulling on you, even at 17.5. But you're just falling in the same orbit all around earth. But if you go slower, eventually gravity pulls you back into the atmosphere. You hit all the gases in the atmosphere and you slow down, drag.

• 3:32:59Speaker 06

  But once you get up there, you accelerate 17.5 Mach 25, you're going five miles a second.

• 3:33:06Speaker 06

  And you're waiting for that CCO to happen, second stage cutoff. And that's where that second stage will separate. And when that happens, again, it's just this boom. You've separated and now you're floating and now you're in that that transition. That, you know, fluid shift, organs are shifting, brain lift. Um, did I explain this? I don't remember if I did or not. A little bit. Um, I talked about the space adaptation, the disorientation, that tumbling. Um, other things that happen is the the fluid in your body is shifting. So it's free floating. So your organs are actually kind of moving around and your your brain is floating in CSF.

• 3:33:48Speaker 06

  But gravity's pulling on it. Well, up there it starts to shift up and it floats inside your skull. And it causes this like space fog. Um, it's almost like this fullness. And if you see images of us, we look full, like bloated, swollen. It's almost like if you hang upside down from your bed, that blood rush is just constant. Um, and it's it's something you have to get used to and it it can have an impact. Like I had this chronic, um, headache, mild headache. I actually, um, I did an experimental surgery for this mission. Um, a couple of years prior. One of the big concerns is, uh, intracranial pressure.

• 3:34:32Speaker 06

  So the fluid in your spine, the CSF in your brain, um, the pressure changes zero gravity. So it actually applies pressure to the ocular nerve and changes the shape of your eyeball. It flattens your eyeball and it affects the visual acuity. And that could actually can cause temporary blindness. Couple astronauts have had temporary blindness. So you imagine the concern, you're on your way to Mars and you go blind or you lose significant visual acuity. We don't know much about it because we've only done non-invasive experiments. Contact lenses that take pressure measurements, um, little guns you squeeze and point into the eye, take measurements.

• 3:35:15Speaker 06

  But those are all non-invasive. They're not. They're not as as accurate as we would like. And Nascar NASA being somewhat risk adverse. Um, there's never been a invasive experiment. There's no real volunteers and commercial isn't really a thing yet. Well, I kids dumb enough. Yeah, I'll do it. So I signed up for this experimental surgery where they're going to surgically implant a transducer into my, uh, underneath my rib cage. And that transducer, uh, takes measurements and it's got a catheter that runs up into my spinal column.

• 3:35:58Speaker 06

  So they drill a hole into my spinal column and they slide up about 10 centimeters of this catheter. And now that fluid can flow into the transducer and we have this wand. We just, you know, brush the wand over the transducer and it takes a measurement. So you take measurements before, during and after. And now you can, you can understand the pressure changes. Um, so we can learn more about it. Unfortunately, the, I did the surgery. Um, and for some reason, the, the, the technique used, the catheter backs out of my spinal column. And so I just have a big hole leaking CSF. And that was debilitating. I'm, I couldn't function.

• 3:36:41Speaker 06

  I literally just, you know, lay down. I couldn't, I couldn't, you know, it's just this massive, massive headache and I have the most utmost respect for hydrocephalus patients. The swelling of, of the brain is absolutely debilitating. So they had to do emergency blood patch into my spinal column and then eventually had to do another surgery to, to remove all the shit in my. Yes. I had 11 surgeries. The one year leading up to space. Damn. Random shit. Damn. Appendix, gallbladder, ERCPs, this hernias, you name it. Old.

• 3:37:25Speaker 06

  But it was a.

• 3:37:27Shawn Ryan?

  So you go straight up to.

• 3:37:28Speaker 06

  Sorry, yes.

• 3:37:29Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, you go straight to you did. You said there was some, uh.

• 3:37:35Shawn Ryan?

  You did a couple of orbits at a lower altitude and then shot up to what was it?

• 3:37:41Speaker 06

  Uh, fourteen hundred and eight point one was the rec is the record.

• 3:37:47Speaker 06

  Which will be broken in, you know, in in no time. Once we continue to. Explore and push the envelope. And then we did that for eight orbits because the radiation level was was a concern.

• 3:38:00Speaker 06

  Cycles on the hardware, software, as well as the human body. Didn't want to expose too much. It was the equivalent of like three to four months living on the ISS, what they're exposed to in in our.

• 3:38:13Speaker 06

  Eight orbits. It's a pretty intense band of radiation called the Van Halen belts. And then we brought it down to seven fifty ish, I think it was.

• 3:38:26Shawn Ryan?

  You were up there for how many days? Three days?

• 3:38:28Speaker 06

  No, there was just eight orbits. So hundred and six minutes times eight, whatever that equals hour and a half. I don't know, twelve hours. Twelve, fourteen hours.

• 3:38:40Shawn Ryan?

  So when you were up there, I mean, could you see the whole earth at once?

• 3:38:44Speaker 06

  Uh, no, uh, there was, I wish I had pictures, um.

• 3:38:49Shawn Ryan?

  Do you have pictures?

• 3:38:50Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, absolutely. iPhone. That's us. We took thousands of pictures with our iPhone.

• 3:38:54Shawn Ryan?

  Can you send me some?

• 3:38:55Speaker 06

  Absolutely. They're they're all over the internet. Um, we have a Flickr page I'll send you. That's got really cool. With videos, um, time lapse. The best pictures actually are from outside the capsule. It looks like CGI. Looks fake. It's not, just like the moon.

• 3:39:13Speaker 06

  But it's just they modified again, standard SpaceX badass. They had a camera outside, a selfie cam with a fisheye lens outside the the hatch. Um, the nose cone. So they had this beautiful picture of the the spacewalk, just time lapse of all the, you know, the evolution of the light, all that stuff. So I'll send you. Plenty.

• 3:39:39Shawn Ryan?

  So could you see the whole?

• 3:39:41Speaker 06

  No, you could see good portion of it.

• 3:39:45Speaker 06

  But you couldn't, we weren't far enough away. There was enough underneath and the, you know, there's windows aren't that great. I mean, it's, there's two windows, they're about that big. And then the Ford hatch.

• 3:40:00Speaker 06

  The actual hatch has a window in it.

• 3:40:04Shawn Ryan?

  What's it like looking out into nothing?

• 3:40:07Speaker 06

  Very eerie. Sometimes it depend on the lighting, but you could see stars and sometimes you couldn't. Especially when the, the Draco's are firing it, all you see is this hue of, of yellows and reds from the, from the fuel exhaust.

• 3:40:27Speaker 06

  But there were times where it's just billions of stars. I mean, more than you could ever imagine.

• 3:40:33Speaker 06

  We did see constellation of Starlink. It passed like 70 kilometers away ish, which is pretty close. I mean, relatively speaking.

• 3:40:47Speaker 06

  They track all that. It's called M M O D, micrometeorite Orbital Debris. Any shit that's, you know, worthy of, well, anything that big would put a hole in your, in your castle, but.

• 3:41:03Shawn Ryan?

  What was, I mean, what was, uh, what was the routine up there where you guys just? Did you have to be, were you doing stuff?

• 3:41:11Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah. No, it was, it was constant. We packed a lot. 10 pounds of shit into a six pound sock. It was, it was a lot. Cause we wanted to make it, I mean. How many astronauts have there been? You know, it's, we gotta maximize this opportunity and leverage every minute and second we have. So we had a very intense timeline.

• 3:41:36Speaker 06

  And then you talk about all the adaptation to the environment. It's just like your, your challenge.

• 3:41:41Shawn Ryan?

  Any downtime?

• 3:41:44Speaker 06

  Sleep, I slept maybe three, four hours a night if I was lucky. It's tough. I mean, if you're a back sleeper, it's, it's okay. Cause by the time you fall asleep, you're flat as a board, levitating like Exorcist type above the bed. And these, these seats are like bucket seats, almost like a racing kind of seat. Um, but you loosely connect the super uh seatbelt because you'd float away. Um, but by the time you fall asleep and fall asleep is tough. Because since you're floating, you feel like you're falling. So it was just the, once you hit like rim, it's like you get startled and wake up.

• 3:42:26Speaker 06

  Because you feel like you're falling. And so you go through this cycle until eventually you get so tired, I'm just, you fall asleep. And then when you wake up, you're just this flat as a board. Wow. We'd have these little, you know, down sleeping bags, just these little profile kind of things for comfort. Um, Jared would sleep up on the top. I think Sarah slept on the bottom. I slept in my seat and us, you know, it was just wherever you could find space. What are you guys eating? You know, it's like, so people ask, why do you, what, what does mountaineering have to do with spaceflight? Well, there's, there's a lot of consistencies and you know, when you, when you climb a mountain and we did, uh,

• 3:43:08Speaker 06

  one of our guides took us, Ed Vissers, uh, I don't know if you know Ed, he's only American to summit all 14, 8,000 meter peaks without oxygen, American. Anyways, he took us down to, uh, Cotopaxi, Ecuador, in 19,328 foot volcano. Multiple days, get up close to the summit. Um, by the time you get up there, man, you're, you're hungry, you're dehydrated, you're sleep deprived, you're dealing with oxygen. You know, issues with altitude, you're in confined space in the tent and very consistent to how you feel in a capsule. And this gets to your question, you're just not that hungry. You're eating camp food. Um, because we're going to bring this entire capsule down to vacuum.

• 3:43:54Speaker 06

  So if there's much, if there's a lot of water in any of the food, it just stops it. It's just going to freeze it and you know, it's not going to taste good. So we had a little bit of fresh food to kick off, cold pizza. Um, these empanadas and little, little Hawaiian roll sandwiches. Otherwise, that was gone. I was the only one eating. I mean, I'm, you know, being an endurance guy, I'm just like rah. And I felt great. So my crew members were like, here, kid. And so I was the only one eating this stuff. Um, but otherwise it's like cliff bars, beef jerky, um, that kind of stuff.

• 3:44:35Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:44:35Speaker 06

  Just to sustain till you get five days, five days. I mean, you didn't really want to sleep, but you felt like you had to do something. You want to make the most of it. Um, but all of our time was science and research. And then the prep leading up to the spacewalk, that was a big deal.

• 3:44:53Shawn Ryan?

  Cause you guys. How mu- how much time do you get to? Look at Earth and look at, look at

• 3:45:00Shawn Ryan?

  the vastness of space. I mean, Couple minutes here and there.

• 3:45:04Speaker 06

  Yeah. Cause um, in the, the brightness of the, of the sun, it is, it's,

• 3:45:12Speaker 06

  you know, it's not worthy of pictures. So it's not like we're focused because it's so bright and it's dark in the capsule. So it's really tough. Um, photography wise, it was more the transitions that were like, oh my God, that's amazing. Um, thin blue line. And then as sunrise and sunsets happened, that, that was really cool. The low altitudes catching, you know, crossing over, you know, Egypt and the Gaza or uh, Giza and the Nile and Suez and Israel. That was beautiful. Cause your, your profile, the way you fly around the earth is, it's pretty consistent. You're, you're descending over Europe into Africa,

• 3:45:54Speaker 06

  India, Australia, and then you start climbing back up through the U S and then back down. It's just how the orbit is with the rotation and.

• 3:46:03Shawn Ryan?

  Interesting. How long would it take to orbit the earth?

• 3:46:06Speaker 06

  A hundred and six minutes for our orbit.

• 3:46:09Shawn Ryan?

  A hundred.

• 3:46:09Speaker 06

  It's usually like 90 minutes for like the station. Hour and a half to get around. We were an hour and forty six minutes. That's because of this highly elliptical profile that we did with the the furthest is called the apogee. And that was a fourteen oh eight. And then the lowest closest on the backside of that orbit is called perigee. And that was the one ninety hundred ninety kilometers, which is like you're skimming the atmosphere. It's Wow.

• 3:46:41Speaker 06

  Yeah. So we were just doing, you would catch a glimpse while you're doing all the science and research, blood samples and simple stuff that we don't think about, that we have to solve for, like, um, triage, you know, you stick a hundred passengers on a, on a, um, starship that's headed to Mars, shit's gonna happen. Cardiac arrest, um, you're gonna have to incubate CPR, whatever. Those aren't easy things to do, especially in the volume of like a starship where you don't have leverage per se, where it's a small capsule. Do we

• 3:47:23Speaker 06

  had to do a CPR, um, test, little compression thing, little, um, trainer kind of thing, click, click, click. And just simply getting leverage to do CPR for two minutes. Cause it's equal and opposite reaction. You push and now you're floating. Yeah. How do you get leverage? You just put your feet on the ceiling. And so you'd have to move the patient over to one seat because you can't get to the patient underneath the other two seats. It's, you gotta think about every little detail. Um, airway assessment. So the shape, everything changes shape wise. So your airway becomes more constricted. So if you're going to incubate and need to stick something down someone's throat, it's a different shape. So we don't

• 3:48:06Speaker 06

  know exactly what those changes are. So I did a, um, endoscope.

• 3:48:12Speaker 06

  Camera exam of my airway. So this camera, this long little antenna, just stick it down the nose, down to the airway, and you're taking images before, during, and after the flight. And all the smart people will go back and take this information. CGMs, someone's gonna have diabetes who goes to space. A simple CGM little device doesn't work so well in space. So just simple stuff, drawing blood, because you know, as soon as blood, it's floating. So you're so used to gravity on some of these devices that that draw blood, they weren't working in space. So we had to test new ones to draw blood.

• 3:48:55Shawn Ryan?

  So what, does there have to be suction?

• 3:48:57Speaker 06

  There's a little bit. It's like a, um, part of it was centrifugal force. Um, the one we tested didn't work. Um, it was a device you just slap on, you push a button, and it's supposed to like, draw, but it was having difficulties because zero gravity. The fluid is just floating.

• 3:49:18Shawn Ryan?

  Man.

• 3:49:20Speaker 06

  Another cool test was, um, it was an ambulance in a box. Literally just a suitcase, Pelican case, and it had all these leads. And so you go in cardiac arrest, we're sticking all these leads on, doing a, um, and we can do an EKG, and oxygen, um, blood pressure, pulse, anything and everything. All that's fed through Starlink, down to the smart doctors on Earth. And they can monitor patients from space with this new device. And it's never been tested before. So.

• 3:49:52Shawn Ryan?

  Very interesting. Yeah, yeah. Wow. So let's, so the spacewalk.

• 3:49:58Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm. So, um.

• 3:50:05Speaker 06

  This was.

• 3:50:07Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, that had to scare the shit out of you, right?

• 3:50:10Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's. I think. Getting down to vacuum.

• 3:50:16Shawn Ryan?

  Especially looking out into nothing.

• 3:50:19Speaker 06

  That was. The fear came before that. And it was. As you started to go down to to vacuum, because this suit, it's the only spacesuit that is a single panel of a visor. This iridium, whatever glow gold plated kind of thing. It is the only suit that's a single layer, you know, the emu suits they wear, they're multi-layered and, you know, different shades and stuff like that. So it's literally just this thin between you and death, you know? Because if if you lose pressure, pray that it's a slow leak and you can repressurize the capsule in time, but.

• 3:51:01Shawn Ryan?

  Probably not.

• 3:51:02Speaker 06

  Yeah, I didn't want to think about that too much.

• 3:51:07Speaker 06

  But you're, you know, you're you're watching. You're watching the the one in the HUD, because that's your suit pressure. And it's. It it should be additional five PSID above whatever the capsule is. So, you know, if we're at like 10, I hope I'm I'm reading 15. And then as it comes down. You know, eventually I see five. And I know. The capsule, we're in a vacuum. So we can just simply open the hatch. And so that is just a. And then it's just this whole compartmentalized, the box breathing, you know, I'm just.

• 3:51:47Speaker 06

  Because you're in this confined space. And if you're claustrophobic at all, I mean, there were, there were events in training. Where you're you're. Playing along with the scenario and you're rushing around because something happened is, you know, an emergency situation. And the visor is down. And it's 12 layers thick, and the idea is to retain your heat. But that is a huge concern. Because at some point, you cross a threshold where your body can't. Cool itself anymore. You're just going to cook inside the suit. Because it can't cool fast enough. The airflow isn't that great. There's some vents

• 3:52:28Speaker 06

  right here on the vi- just right by the visor and the gas from the umbilical. But if you catch yourself overheating too fast, it's a point of no return kind of feeling. And you start to like have this hyperventilation feeling because you're just trying to calm yourself down. And so you would experience this in training because you're, you're jumping all around and you're at one G, having to fight the pressure of the suit and it's just, so it's almost like that meditative state you had to get into for the spacewalk because of, you did not want to like ever get yourself anywhere near. I never did, you know, you,

• 3:53:09Speaker 06

  especially where I was sitting and what I did, my role during the, uh, the spacewalk. Uh, cause I stayed in my seat. So, um, we only had enough gas to send two astronauts out, 15 minute increments. That's all we had. But technically the hatch, it's literally right there. I mean, space is right there. I just didn't get to stick my head out. Wanted to, but I'm locked in my seatbelt. And same with Anna. And then Jared and Sarah were the ones that in the middle seats did the swap.

• 3:53:43Shawn Ryan?

  So it was one at a time?

• 3:53:46Speaker 06

  One at a time. That's all it fits. Cause you're pressurized. So the volume in the capsule, when you're pressurized, especially Jared's not a, not a small human. He's six something, six two, um, or six five, I don't know what it is. But he takes up a lot of that volume, you know? I'm just a widow guy. So I, and I'm over my side and Anna's over her side and Sarah's small. So, but, so enough room for him to get up, do his thing, 15 minutes, did some, uh, mobility testing out there.

• 3:54:16Shawn Ryan?

  I mean, the outside.

• 3:54:19Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:54:21Shawn Ryan?

  Holy shit, by yourself. I thought that, I thought you'd have a buddy or something.

• 3:54:25Speaker 06

  Yeah. You have a, a Kevlar cord for, uh, tether. And then you have the umbilical. So it's, um, and then I guess I could, I can grab him if I had to, um.

• 3:54:43Speaker 06

  What are they doing out there? Mobility tests.

• 3:54:47Speaker 06

  He got a beautiful view, so as soon as he opened the hatch, well, we actually had an issue with the hatch opening. I can talk about, but soon as he got the hatch open, man, Earth just filled that entire. It was unbelievable. And I got a great view of it and Jared got a great view. About halfway through his window, sunset happened. So it got all black. So Sarah actually went out and it was just black. We're in the eclipse of the planet. So it's pretty dark when she went out. There's ambient light from the capsule and there's lights up there and she's got a light on her visor. But it's our camera.

• 3:55:29Speaker 06

  But the hatch, so our protocol was Jared is going, once we get down to vacuum, everything's good. He's going to unlock it, break the seal, get out of the way, and it's going to be automated. Because they were concerned about him exerting too much force and generating heat and that was a big concern.

• 3:55:54Speaker 06

  Well, as soon as he unlocked and broke the seal, it would automatically close on its own. Come to find out, the residual pressure from our suits was forcing the hatch to close. So he would open a little bit more, but it wasn't enough. Finally, again, based on the training that we went through and the rehearsals and these scenarios, it was meant for it. Our backup game plan was just to do a manual, Jared's just gonna open hatch. So that was the first issue, the only issue that we had was he had to default to a manual hatch opening, which was kind of cool. And so he opens it and there's Earth.

• 3:56:39Speaker 06

  And he goes outside. First commercial spacewalk, it was Wow. It was surreal. And a lot of people, there were a lot of doubters out there. You know, social media is an evil thing, but

• 3:56:54Speaker 06

  a lot of people doubted

• 3:56:58Speaker 06

  what we were doing, what SpaceX was able to accomplish.

• 3:57:06Speaker 06

  I'm sure Elon gets it constantly, I mean.

• 3:57:10Speaker 06

  Just starting the rocket business and doing boosters landing, you know, on drone ships. And now catching boosters with chopsticks. It's, it's not a matter of if, it's just when. When are we going to accomplish all these things? And so, so he comes back in and then Sarah goes out and then she gets her 15 minutes. Um, and then we're just, our role in underneath was just to manage the umbilical cords and safety, monitoring the systems. Cause if anything happens, it's like abort, abort, abort, get back inside, close the hatch, re-pressurize.

• 3:57:50Speaker 06

  And we could, you know, we could live in those suits for hours, if not days, pressurized. And we would eventually, you know, re-pressurize and de-orbit if anything ever happened.

• 3:58:01Shawn Ryan?

  Man.

• 3:58:02Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 3:58:03Shawn Ryan?

  How long do you think it'll be before the majority of Americans have been to space?

• 3:58:11Speaker 06

  You know, it's absolutely inevitable. I believe it for sure. It's going to happen. The concept of launching these starships and as soon as it starts taking the first human, it's, it's not going to be long after that. It's, cause they're already building out the, it's called E-class or the architecture, the infrastructure inside these. They have prototypes of, um, they got them down at Star, uh, Starbase in, in Texas where they do the launches. Um, these mockups of what it would look like in theory. And it's almost like these, um, little cubicles. They're spiral stacked inside this immense, you know, it's, I don't know if it's 30 by

• 3:58:54Speaker 06

  30, 30 foot diameter across, but it's, ours was 12 feet. I think it's 12 feet, 12 or 14 feet. I think it's 12 feet is the diameter of our capsule. This is like 30 and it's like, you have all this volume to float across and, and, and the idea is these little cubicles, almost like these Japanese trains that have little, just enough space to lay down, but hundreds of these spiral stacked up inside this capsule. And you got multiple levels. So now you have all the living quarters and then you got the eating quarters and then you got the, the operations where the crew of, you know, six to nine people in charge of the vehicle are going to operate. And then you have all these passengers that are.

• 3:59:39Speaker 06

  Just going for the ride. Man. I think we're ways away. I, I think we're. I feel like my kids are gonna take a school field trip there. To, to space, to low earth orbit. Yeah. But it's. This, this thing is the lymphic, the body. Um. You know, fifty percent space adaptation syndrome, get sick. Could you imagine a hundred people? No. And. Twenty, thirty people puking. What a shit show. Oh, it would be bad. So hopefully we can solve some of that. Um. I don't know if it's drugs or. I don't know. What's it like coming back? Um, well, another thing we did on orbit is the Starlink tests.

• 4:00:24Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah. I don't, I don't, I mean, I can briefly cover this, but, um. So the idea was gonna do a, a global music event. Sarah Gillis is a professionally trained violinist. Absolutely beautiful. Um. Extremely talented. Um, and we're gonna do this global event, this, you know, flash mob where all these orchestras around the world are gonna perform and, and she's gonna perform in space and it's all gonna be broadcast. Via Starlink. Um, because it's never been tested up there. Um, and we, you know, we weren't sure about the, the probability of success. Um, it was just an unknown. Um, cause you gotta, it's all lasers, you know, and, and these little glass.

• 4:01:07Speaker 06

  Uh, I don't know what they are on the, on the actual Starlink that they had aligned all these things and, and they're traveling seventeen five and you're traveling seventeen five to figure out the math to make all this happen. And now you're passing through their orbit in your elliptical. Cause they're circular, they're at three fifty, let's call it. And you're passing through them, so you gotta communicate and it's just like. Smart people figure that stuff out. So we didn't know if it was gonna work. As soon as we got there, they're like, we think your wifi is working. Can you guys get on your iPhone and see if it's working? We literally, and so the way you communicate with anyone in space is it's ground stations,

• 4:01:52Speaker 06

  strategically placed all over the planet. And as you're going around, you're communicating line of sight to all these stations. Or you utilize what's called TDRS satellites, just national assets. I think there's only five or six out there and it's high demand, national security kind of stuff. And you time share based on if you're on the ISS and, you know, if we were going to utilize that, it's going to be about maybe 80% coverage. Otherwise, we're in blackout. We're not talking to anyone kind of thing.

• 4:02:20Speaker 06

  Starlink is hopefully gonna change that. And so they say, hey, we think it's working. Can you guys get on your iPhones and check? Literally, ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding. All these messages start populating in my phone and we're like, can we call our families? We literally, I call my family. So I dial my wife and she patches in and we're FaceTime. My kids are at school. I got two in high school, one in college. They step out of their classroom and everyone, picture, we have, we have like snapshots of our phone. There we are, talking to our family. I can only think back to when I met my wife and I'm in Korea and she's back in Minnesota and we're using these MCI calling cards and

• 4:03:05Speaker 06

  I get maybe five, 10 minutes out of it and I, well, I deployed to Kuwait and I got two phone calls, five minutes each over 90 days and that's all I talked. And oh, by the way, I proposed to her the day before I deployed and we got married three days after I got back from my deployment. So, and so we're engaged. I talked to her twice. Jeez. Anyways, so I think back to, to just, I don't know, was that 25 years ago?

• 4:03:35Speaker 06

  And now here we are. I'm in space. I'm 1,400 miles up. I'm traveling 17,500 miles an hour. I'm currently over Africa on my way to India. And my kids are in school and I'm talking, you know, it's just absolute mind blowing. What?

• 4:03:53Speaker 06

  What we have access to.

• 4:03:55Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 4:03:55Speaker 06

  Talk about information flow. I mean, we took some Starlink to Philippines. So St. Jude could set up some of these at, at remote locations. And so all these people who live in jungles now have access to this telemedicine. Otherwise, who wouldn't, you know? And it's just, now we got Starlink down to our phones and it's just living a different world.

• 4:04:24Shawn Ryan?

  We do, we do.

• 4:04:27Shawn Ryan?

  Man, so coming home.

• 4:04:30Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 4:04:33Speaker 06

  So, um,

• 4:04:36Speaker 06

  it's a drawn up process to get ready because you got to strap everything in because it's a violent ride. It's, I think it's more violent coming home than it is going up.

• 4:04:44Speaker 06

  Your body is deconditioned. So you're used to zero gravity, but we've only been there for five days. I mean, these astronauts on the space station when,

• 4:04:56Speaker 06

  when they come, when Butch and Sonny come home in a couple of weeks, um, you know, they've been up there for six plus months. They're way deconditioned. So it's, it's tough because you're not using the skeletal system, your ligaments, your tendons, your muscles like you normally do. It's why they dedicate hours, three hours a day to working out up there on the station. Um, but our five days, you still feel deconditioned. So the moment you start this reentry and what happens is you, you turn the capsule around, you fire the Draco engines into the direction of your velocity. And that slows you down. So as, as, as you begin to slow down, now gravity starts taking over and you enter your, your de-orbit profile.

• 4:05:42Speaker 06

  And as soon as you start coming down, you hit the atmosphere. And that's what really slows you down.

• 4:05:50Speaker 06

  Because you have all this drag. And

• 4:05:54Speaker 06

  But it also generates plasma, heat, fire. So that's what you enter the blackout phase. So as you start, the first step of the whole process is to separate from the trunk. So you've got the capsule and then you've got this extension. It's called the trunk. It's got solar panels because this entire vehicle is energy depleting. So we need the solar panels for energy, for power. So you separate from the trunk a couple of hours prior and it's just this big old boom. And that's, okay, we're committed because we can't survive in this capsule for too long. We've got to come home. So you're coming home anyways.

• 4:06:34Speaker 06

  You get in your suit, you get in your seat, you strap in and engines start firing and it's just this constant repetitive

• 4:06:46Speaker 06

  as these engines are firing to slow you down. And then it just slowly starts to build this vibration, this chatter. And as you start to hit the atmosphere, you've got your two little windows and you can see just enough. And you initially see like these sparks, almost looks like campfire sparks up high. And then all of a sudden it turns into like these streaks. And then it just turns into fire. You are literally on fire. And it's like, I think it's like 2,600 degrees. So you're cooking, you're praying that TPS, the thermal protection system, your protection on the belly is working.

• 4:07:27Speaker 06

  If any M M O D hit that stuff, you didn't know about it.

• 4:07:32Speaker 06

  Well, you probably wouldn't find out. You just, you wouldn't survive it.

• 4:07:37Speaker 06

  And then you hit blackout and it's just, you're hauling ass.

• 4:07:42Speaker 06

  And it's shaking and you start to build up those G forces again because you're slowing down. You're going from 17.5 down to like 350 miles an hour. So this is just massive G forces. Again, four and a half. But it's a lot longer and the fact that you haven't been at G's on orbit.

• 4:08:01Speaker 06

  Point two feels, whoa, I feel heavy. Four and a half. It's like, okay. I don't know how long I can sustain this before I feel like I'm gonna pass out. Um, you're so hyped up on adrenaline anyways. And then you're just watching the clock for certain milestones. You're looking for the drug shoots to come out. And then once the drug shoots come out, it's they'll pull the shoots eventually. And those are explosives. So it's another big ol', you know, the panel gets blown, pulled. And, you know, it's they're superimposed images on our display, so I can actually see it happen. So it's the first point of relief is, okay, the drugs are out. They look good.

• 4:08:44Speaker 06

  They're not tangled or anything like that, like a parachute. And then the big moment is when those shoots come out. And it's just a big ol', it's almost like a car crash. It's just this boom. Big four, four big shoots come out. And then now it's just a soft ride down. The, the impact is, is like a car crash, like a fender bender. It's pretty, it's pretty intense. That's why it's only built for water landings versus land. You'd break your back if you landed on the, on the land.

• 4:09:17Speaker 06

  And then you're just trying to get used to gravity and you're bobbing, you know, um, waiting for them to pull the recovery, cause again, it's SpaceX. They, they got everything in top fashion. They have this dedicated boat. It's literally within a mile of where they splash down. They know exactly where you're gonna end up. Um, they pull that boat, they send out, uh, special ops guys, a bunch of PJs. They all have military backgrounds. They're on their jet skis, wee, and, uh, and their fast boats. And they pull right up to the capsule. They, they, you know, do some sniff tests, cause, um, hypergols is a big concern. It's just this fuel that can kill you if you breathe too much of it.

• 4:10:01Speaker 06

  So they do a sniff test to make sure there's no leaks, um, put some straps on the capsule, then they pull the big boat up right behind you. They get this crane and they just literally just pick you up, put you on the deck, slide you right up to a deck where the hatch is. And they open the hatch, doctors come in, check you over, give me a thumbs up, cause millions of people are watching the broadcast and you don't wanna.

• 4:10:25Speaker 06

  When you step out, or you can't stand up, or for whatever reason, they check you out. And then, one by one, it's like, wave to the families and crowds, and then they do a med check. Helicopter comes, get in the helicopter, and they fly you back for the reunion, the family reunion, in the hangar.

• 4:10:45Shawn Ryan?

  How was it seeing your family?

• 4:10:47Speaker 06

  It was awesome. I think that was actually one of the highlights, because it was, you know, getting emotional just thinking about it. It's just like this relief, knowing that she's at ease now. Because for me, I'm living and breathing it, man. I'm, I'm on cloud nine. This is, this is, this is my jam. But for her, knowing that it's like, it's over, and she can kind of just let go, because she's trying to hold it together for the kids this whole time, and, you know, from the launch to the spacewalk to the splashdown, it's just all these, and having to think about the inevitable, not the inevitable, but,

• 4:11:27Speaker 06

  God forbid, the worst thing that could happen, you know, having to live with that, thinking about it for years leading up to this.

• 4:11:36Speaker 06

  It was just kind of a emotional, it's over for her.

• 4:11:42Shawn Ryan?

  Damn.

• 4:11:44Shawn Ryan?

  Well, that's a hell of a journey, man.

• 4:11:49Shawn Ryan?

  That is a hell of a journey.

• 4:11:51Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's, um.

• 4:11:54Speaker 06

  It was only September 15th, we splashed down, launched on the 10th.

• 4:12:00Speaker 06

  We were up there on the 11th.

• 4:12:04Speaker 06

  September 11th, talked to Folds of Honor in space, which was cool. We called Dan Rooney and a couple of the families. The CEO, so that was, that was cool. Sarah did her music event, and Anna wrote a book, child's, a children's book for her kids, so she read that on, on orbit.

• 4:12:27Speaker 06

  We all kind of got a little taste.

• 4:12:29Shawn Ryan?

  Very interesting.

• 4:12:30Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 4:12:35Shawn Ryan?

  Is there anything I should have asked that I didn't ask?

• 4:12:41Speaker 06

  That was a lot.

• 4:12:43Shawn Ryan?

  Well, you know, when we met at inauguration, you had offered to take me up in an F6.

• 4:12:48Speaker 06

  Oh, I did?

• 4:12:49Shawn Ryan?

  You did. I'll settle for the first podcast in space.

• 4:12:54Speaker 06

  Oh, the first podcast in space. I think that is definitely, that's right up your alley, man. That would be awesome. We got the connectivity for it, for sure.

• 4:13:06Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah, should. We could do it live.

• 4:13:07Speaker 06

  Why not?

• 4:13:11Speaker 06

  You gotta pick your, uh, who would you interview? All right, let's turn the tables. Let me, uh, let me, uh, ask you questions. Who would you interview in space?

• 4:13:24Shawn Ryan?

  Well, I mean, you know,

• 4:13:28Shawn Ryan?

  Elon seems pretty fitting.

• 4:13:30Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 4:13:31Shawn Ryan?

  So, but then that would be, that would be really something, wouldn't it?

• 4:13:36Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 4:13:38Shawn Ryan?

  But.

• 4:13:40Speaker 06

  Would you go?

• 4:13:42Shawn Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 4:13:42Speaker 06

  To space?

• 4:13:46Speaker 06

  That was actually one thing that, that upon reflection, getting down, you know, I'm trying to make sense of it all and I keep on ego-wise, or bring it back to myself and what was, what was, you know, the significance of it all and blah, blah, blah. And then I have the conversation with people and they're like, oh, my God, what was it like? They immediately go into this mental simulation where they put themselves in the situation.

• 4:14:14Speaker 06

  And it's a, hell no, there's no way I'll go, ah, I just don't know if I could do that. Or I'll sell my firstborn to go to space kind of attitude. And that's what makes me realize, okay, stop making it about yourself. It's, it, there, it's so much more than that. It's about inspiring this next generation to want to go, to be that person.

• 4:14:41Shawn Ryan?

  I talk to my wife about this all the time. I mean, I, I think the possibility of our kids going to space is greater than them not.

• 4:14:51Shawn Ryan?

  Things are just evolving so fast, you know? I think it'll become the norm before I die. If I live up, you know?

• 4:15:01Speaker 06

  And it's not, it's not just the moon and Mars. It's gonna be low Earth orbit as well. I mean, they're gonna create habitable structures, whether it's a bunch of star. The volume in a starship is equivalent to the ISS. So the entire structure of the ISS up there is the same as a starship. So now SpaceX has dozens of these lined up down there and just waiting to launch to test. They can manufacture these and they give us the numbers when we go down there for tours and stuff. It's, it's, it's crazy. It's mind blowing how quickly they can build these rockets. And they're only getting more and more efficient. You know, that's his business model.

• 4:15:44Speaker 06

  It's like, okay, widget X. The production of widget X by company Y is slowing us down. Let's bring this in-house, 3D print it and do it ourselves. And that takes out that whole delay. So, you know, they become more and more efficient and they're, again, these engineers are empowered to do that. You know, with the, um, with the ability to take risk as, as needed, you know, safety always being the primary concern to, to be able to create all these starships and, and it will be, you know, reality when they're launching all the time, constantly.

• 4:16:25Speaker 06

  And now you, you take these starships, one of them, how about docking three, four of these together? And now you have three or four space stations up there. Create hotels and, you know, whatever. Research labs and 3D print some organs.

• 4:16:44Shawn Ryan?

  It's a fascinating subject. It's, I guess, you know, the new frontier. Well, Scott, what a, uh, what an interview, man. Covered a lot of ground there. And, um, man, it was an honor to, to sit here with you and, and, um, learn about your life and got into some pretty deep discussions and talking about space and God and everything, man. It's been.

• 4:17:18Shawn Ryan?

  It's been an honor. Thank you.

• 4:17:20Speaker 06

  Honor's mine, man. I just appreciate the opportunity. What you're doing is absolutely amazing. All the power to you. I wish you a lot of success and because you're changing lives and just getting the message out, whatever it might be, you know, it's... This is the message that people need to hear. Not necessarily my story, but all the things and people you interview. You know, you've talked about like DJ, you know, he would never have a platform like this. And now everyone knows his story and the sacrifices that he's made. And there's dozens and dozens more like DJ that you're allowing this opportunity.

• 4:18:05Speaker 06

  So we owe you the thanks, brother.

• 4:18:08Shawn Ryan?

  It's cool to be able to do it. Thank you. Thank you. All right, Scott. God bless, brother.