Jessi Draper: Blackmail, Orgies & Escorts

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Jessi Draper. For the first time, Jessi opens up about divorcing Jordan, how she found out he was using escorts and attending sex parties, what really went down behind closed doors in their marriage, and what she wants for her future. She also responds to the latest Taylor and Dakota headlines and shares her perspective on what she sees for the future of MomTok. Enjoy!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 1:23Alex Cooper?

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• 2:04Alex Cooper?

  So if you haven't used it yet, Uber's new Women Preferences feature is available now. The Uber app. Learn more on the Uber app. Hey guys, I just wanted to give some context before you watch the interview of when this episode was recorded. It is currently Friday, March 20th in the early afternoon. And so much is happening with secret lives. So if any news breaks over the weekend, we are not avoiding the topic. It's just, we already recorded the episode and we weren't privy to that information. So enjoy the episode.

• 2:39Speaker 01

  What is up daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

• 2:48Alex Cooper?

  Jessie Draper, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:52Alex Cooper?

  It has been such a crazy time for the secret lives of Mormon wives right now. Obviously, there have been some really traumatic headlines. And to be clear, you were booked to come on Call Her Daddy before any of the Taylor Frankie Paul news broke. Originally, the plan was to talk about your own journey and we are going to do that today. But we do need to acknowledge what's going on right now with your co-stars, Taylor and Dakota. So last week, a recent domestic violence report from February came to light. And as that news was breaking, then

• 3:32Alex Cooper?

  a disturbing video from a 2023 altercation between Taylor and Dakota was released.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:39Alex Cooper?

  And then two hours later, Taylor's season of The Bachelorette was canceled.

• 3:45Alex Cooper?

  The footage is really hard to watch, especially because there is a child involved. I imagine this was really upsetting for all of the cast. Prior to the release, did you know this video existed?

• 4:01Speaker 01

  I did. Obviously, back in 2023, we knew it had happened and we knew there was a video, but like, we never saw it. It was like, the police had had it and they talked about it and we all just were like, okay, I don't like to judge someone in their darkest moment, you know, like, I don't want to judge the person, I'll judge the mistake. And Taylor really has made a lot of changes and that's what's so hard for me is like, this is my real friend and she does have a really good heart and I love her so much.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  Seen that video, it's like so hard because it's just, there's so much pain underneath the surface for Taylor. And I tell her this all the time that um, it's not who Taylor is. She got caught in a really bad cycle and um, just seeing that video and yes, the child being involved is awful and everyone involved like is really hard. Um, but Taylor's such a good person and she's made some mistakes and so was Dakota. And I'm not saying any of it's right, but I know Taylor is a person and it's so easy to speculate about these people on a reality show. I think when you watch it like we're characters, we're not real people, but this is our real lives. And I've seen Taylor in her darkest moments, holding her, crying like I've, I've been there for her. So I know what goes on behind the scenes. And I just, I want this to be maybe a wake up call for them and let's get them help,

• 5:12Speaker 01

  healthy and happy and move forward. And I believe people can come back from things like this. And I just want the kids to be safe and happy and healthy. That's all I really want for them right now.

• 5:22Alex Cooper?

  I'm curious because like now seeing the footage, like you said, like you knew there was something and, and people had read the reports and obviously they came back from it. But seeing it, has it made you reevaluate the manner in which this relationship and everything has been handled to date with the two of them?

• 5:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, we all knew it was a toxic cycle. Don't get me wrong. Like you saw her in season four and how she was dealing with that and us kind of being like, Taylor, what are you doing? But no, no one knew the extent. And Taylor herself had, has said to us like, I didn't want to tell anyone the extent. And I think anyone in that situation knows that like, it's so easy just to be like, everything's fine. Like I've been there too. So yeah, none of us really knew the extent and now finding out all these details. It's been hard for sure.

• 6:09Alex Cooper?

  How is this impacting the group as a whole right now?

• 6:12Speaker 01

  So me and the girls, um, we did decide to stop filming when we found this out because we were starting to hear things a little bit before it leaked and we just didn't want to be filming and say the wrong thing on camera, not knowing the full story yet. And we didn't want to like, have to process all this information for the first time and then also be speaking about it, you know? So we just thought like for everyone's mental health, let's take a beat and let's not film right now. And that's probably the best thing for everyone in this situation.

• 6:38Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. Can you also clarify, like, I, I know that we read that a decision at first was made by executives to pause filming the upcoming season of Secret Lives that you're in the middle of filming. And then, yes, the cast did. So like, what led to the first pausing?

• 6:53Speaker 01

  So we had a first pause that was from production. And I think, I have to say, like, everyone before I went on reality TV was like, be careful, producers are slimy. That may be the case for some people. I genuinely love my production like their family. Love them. So Production Network, they have been incredible to us. And they did, they paused things for a minute because I think they were like, whoa, like, we care about you guys as people. Then we picked back up and then-

• 7:16Alex Cooper?

  And just to clarify, like, was that when the initial recent, um, domestic violence moment?

• 7:22Speaker 01

  No, this was when we found out he filed a police report. So this was before it broke, though. So they were like, you know, for everyone's mental health, like, let's take a beat. And then when news broke, or actually, like, a little bit before news broke, but we knew it probably was going to, us girls decided. So we went to Production and the Network and they were all so supportive. And they were like, we totally get it. You guys come first. They handled it so well. And because of that, I feel like we all felt comfortable being like, you know what? This is our real lives. And if we want this show to continue to be successful, we have to handle this the right way.

• 7:50Alex Cooper?

  Were you shocked at all when you heard he did file another domestic violence?

• 7:56Speaker 01

  Yes, because I'm sure there are situations in the past where he could have and didn't. And same with her. So because of that, I was like, why now? You know? But I don't know the reason behind it. Everyone's kind of speculating on that. But I think maybe he had hit a limit, maybe. I don't know. I genuinely have no idea.

• 8:13Alex Cooper?

  When the cast then did make the decision, obviously, once you guys heard the video was going to come out?

• 8:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:19Alex Cooper?

  Who, like, brought the girls together? Like, who was the person to raise this to you guys? Like, what was, what were those conversations like?

• 8:26Speaker 01

  Honestly, it was us as a whole. We were all in a group message. Um, so we were just like, hey, let's jump on a Zoom call. And we all got on a Zoom call. And even Whitney was on it, even though she's not like in our lives every single day anymore. And we all just kind of talked about it as a whole. And we were like, hey, how's everyone feeling? Pulse check. How do you want to handle this? And we all were unanimously on the same page.

• 8:44Alex Cooper?

  That's great, that there were no disagreements.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  No.

• 8:47Alex Cooper?

  There is a screenshot going around social media where Taylor called Dakota many times in one night. And in the middle of that, Jordan called and spoke to Dakota. What do you know about that conversation?

• 8:59Speaker 01

  I have to say that like in my marriage, it felt like Dakota was the other woman. Like Dakota and Jordan are so in love. Um, so he was on the phone with Dakota all the time. So he was with him when he filed the police report. He went over to his house and he was with him the whole time. And he, I think, has been in cahoots with Dakota throughout this whole thing.

• 9:17Alex Cooper?

  In those heightened moments, how would you handle, because at the time, this was your husband, like

• 9:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:22Alex Cooper?

  him being loyal to Dakota and you being loyal to Taylor?

• 9:25Speaker 01

  That has been the struggle of my life, the last two years. Um, he's best friends with Dakota and best friends with Taylor. So it's really, really hard. Uh, something ironic, me and Taylor, our birthdays are a day apart. Dakota's and Jordan's are a day apart. So like same signs and I'm a lot like Taylor, he's a lot like Dakota. It's so weird. So this dynamic has been tricky. Um, I would hear things from Jordan, um, and Dakota, and I would just kind of like take it with a grain of salt. And then I would hear things from Taylor. At the end of the day, my loyalty is with Taylor, because she's my friend. But it was hard because my husband was in the middle of a lot of it.

• 9:56Alex Cooper?

  And when you say the past two years, like what, what was that shift? What changed in the past two years?

• 10:02Speaker 01

  Um, just because we got really close with them two years ago and they were still together. And so we were like kind of couple friends. We're filming this show together and then all of a sudden they break up. And then me and Jordan go through our thing last year and that like bonded Dakota and Jordan even more. And then me and Taylor even more.

• 10:18Alex Cooper?

  Do you have any idea what all this means for the next season of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives?

• 10:23Speaker 01

  I don't know, because right now we're on a film pause. I, I, I feel like all of us right now are just trying to like be like, Kay, we're human beings first and let's figure that out and then we'll get back to filming the show. Clearly there's no shortage of drama in our lives. So if we get another season, uh, it's gonna be good.

• 10:40Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, yeah. What do you think, obviously because of all of this coming out, like if you did resume filming?

• 10:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:47Alex Cooper?

  You're going to have to talk about all of this. Like, what do you think it would take for you to feel comfortable to start filming again?

• 10:53Speaker 01

  I think now we're at a point where we're like, okay, the world knows and like the info's out there. And so, you know, now we're good and we can speak on the things we know and we can talk about it in a real way, rather than before we were like, we don't even know if this is gonna get out. So we didn't know if we could even talk about it when we were filming. Now we can.

• 11:10Alex Cooper?

  This is the first time in the history of The Bachelorette that the show was pulled right before the premiere.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:17Alex Cooper?

  What was your reaction when you found out?

• 11:19Speaker 01

  I wasn't super surprised because I felt like there was a lot of discourse online that they probably needed to, but I have to say, I saw Taylor during that journey and she was a different person. I genuinely feel like she needed to get away from Dakota. She stepped into like a really confident, amazing era. I saw her twice and I was like, your aura's different, your energy's different. And it was like the old Taylor again. So I like am so sad because I really wanted people to see that side of Taylor. And maybe one day they will, who knows, but I just felt like it was such a good experience for her. And I'm really sad because it was very wholesome and dramatic, but amazing. So.

• 11:55Alex Cooper?

  Did you have a heads up or did you find out when the news broke?

• 11:59Speaker 01

  No, I found out when the news broke. Yeah. I was literally, I was dancing with Sasha from Dancing with the Stars. We were doing a little dance lesson. My friend was with us and she goes, pause, breaking news. And I was like, what? So, yeah.

• 12:09Alex Cooper?

  And when that happens, you just immediately go to the group chat? Like what were all the other women saying?

• 12:13Speaker 01

  Taylor was calling me. So I'd had two missed calls from her. And I was like, oh shit. So I like answered and she was just like, how are you? The thing about Taylor is she's always checked. Like she's, she has her own shit going on. So sometimes she's like, not very present, but she does care about her friends. So she was like, how are you doing? I just heard. And I was like, how are you doing?

• 12:29Alex Cooper?

  So how is she doing?

• 12:31Speaker 01

  I actually talked to her right before I came in here and she seemed pretty positive today. And I think she knows that this is going to be a long and scary journey. And the thing about Taylor, she always tells the truth. You know, she's known for that. And I think she's going to handle this in the best way possible. And I think she's taking a beat to figure that out. She's not just running to TMZ and leaking stories. So I think that's the right way to go about it.

• 12:51Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, let's talk about that.

• 12:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:52Alex Cooper?

  TMZ is having like.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  The best week ever.

• 12:54Alex Cooper?

  Literally a renaissance. Like TMZ is like, we are so back.

• 12:58Speaker 01

  That's so true.

• 12:59Alex Cooper?

  Obviously, there's a lot of speculation online that people close to Taylor have been leaking things to the press or people close to Dakota or Dakota himself. Like, have you heard anything about, and do you know of anyone leaking anything?

• 13:11Speaker 01

  Um, I don't know who it is, but if I had to guess, it's Dakota.

• 13:15Alex Cooper?

  So you, do you think Dakota sold the video to TMZ?

• 13:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:20Alex Cooper?

  When you think about him selling that to TMZ, why do you think he did it now because he's been holding on to that for three years?

• 13:27Speaker 01

  It's, everyone's speculating about the timing could be it. I definitely think that has something to do with it. I don't know if he was like holding it over her head for that long. Maybe they were doing that to each other. I have no clue like the ins and outs, but I just think the timing is a little crazy. So.

• 13:41Alex Cooper?

  When is the last time you spoke to Dakota?

• 13:44Speaker 01

  Oh, probably two weeks ago. He was at my house a lot because of him and Jordan's dynamic. So through all of this, he's actually been at my house quite often, just like I, I was never like engaging, but he was like around Jordan. So yeah, probably two weeks ago.

• 13:56Alex Cooper?

  And how were those conversations?

• 13:58Speaker 01

  I didn't hear a lot of them. I tried to stay out of it because I'm like, I'm Taylor's friend, you know, but, Jordan and him love to gossip. I will say that.

• 14:05Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. With everything that's come out in the past few days, do you think mom talk will survive this?

• 14:12Speaker 01

  That is the only time that this phrase applies and I actually don't know. We're falling apart over here.

• 14:19Alex Cooper?

  I know. I think it's like, there's the Taylor and Dakota thing, which has been really hard because I think you're right. It's like, we're seeing people online being like, this feels so beyond reality TV. Like this is stuff that like, we shouldn't be able to see this. Like this is not something that we should be able to consume just so casually on the internet. Pick up these videos. Then on top of that, like you just said, Taylor's asking you on the phone, girl, how are you doing? Because there's something serious going on in your life also.

• 14:50Alex Cooper?

  The news just broke that Jordan filed for divorce.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:54Alex Cooper?

  Can you set the record straight? Who ended things in the relationship?

• 14:58Speaker 01

  Um, so I actually found out that he filed through TMZ. They texted me and I was here in LA and I get a text, hey, we just saw Jordan filed for divorce. How are you doing? And I'm like, they're like, it's TMZ and I was like, I did end it with him. So I knew it was coming, but we had made an agreement to do it together. And he blindsided me and filed because he wanted the headline first.

• 15:19Alex Cooper?

  Okay, hold on.

• 15:23Alex Cooper?

  Finding out about your divorce on TMZ, in that moment when you got that text, how did you feel?

• 15:28Speaker 01

  My heart sunk because A, we agreed to tell our children together before filing and we haven't done that, including his daughter who's like 13 years old.

• 15:37Alex Cooper?

  So she found out through TMZ?

• 15:39Speaker 01

  I don't know if he told her before, but we had made the agreement to like tell our kids together and we didn't. And luckily they're young, but just kind of like a betrayal, you know? And I had this huge packet of paperwork to fill out on like how to divide assets and furniture and cars and houses and we had to fill it out to file. So he went ahead and just did all of that without me. So I have no idea what he put in there. He also did try, I found out from my lawyer this morning, he tried to put a clause in the divorce that I couldn't go on any podcast to talk about him. So, sorry.

• 16:07Alex Cooper?

  Here we are.

• 16:08Speaker 01

  But I didn't sign anything. That would all have to be negotiated and it was just what he wanted, but it's not gonna happen.

• 16:12Alex Cooper?

  What do you think he didn't want you to be able to speak about?

• 16:15Speaker 01

  There's a lot. Yeah.

• 16:17Alex Cooper?

  We're gonna get into it.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  Yes, we will.

• 16:19Alex Cooper?

  It is also reported that Jordan allegedly filed quickly on Thursday because he did find out that you were coming on Call Her Daddy. What are your thoughts on that?

• 16:28Speaker 01

  I don't know for sure if he knew, but I think he either, I had told the cast. So the girls knew and I'm like, did someone tell their husband, you know? Got back to Jordan. But maybe he also just knew I was in LA and speculated, you know? But he was definitely trying to get ahead of something, which is ironic because I'm the one who ended it. I told him on Friday the 13th, so not that long ago. And I just said I want a divorce. He definitely didn't want it. And now he's the one rushing to do it, which is a little strange.

• 16:51Alex Cooper?

  We're gonna get into all of that of how you obviously told him. First, I need to acknowledge because literally right before we just sat down, more news broke. It was reported that allegedly Jordan's been involved in some pretty shady behavior for years, including allegedly spending money on escorts with your money.

• 17:12Alex Cooper?

  What is your response to that?

• 17:13Speaker 01

  So it's funny because when he filed the divorce, I ended it and it's, you know, irreconcilable differences is what we're saying. But he put in the papers that we ended it because I had an affair. And he's talking about Marciano, the person I kissed a year and a half ago. That's what he put as the reason. And I was like, what? We've worked through that. It's already been proven on TV that I didn't sleep with him. So crazy. But the ironic thing about that is I do have proof and screenshots that when season one dropped, I had an escort service reach out to me and they sent me screenshots of his phone number and messages. And he was trying to meet up with them. He got a hotel room and I have all of that. And so he's, you know, I, I protected him through all the Marciano stuff and he denied it to me when I brought it to him and he said, we're in Hollywood now.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  People are going to try to do this to tear us apart. It's probably AI. But it wasn't, it was real.

• 18:02Alex Cooper?

  How did you find out it was real?

• 18:03Speaker 01

  Someone messaged me and she works for the escort service and she called me and was like, I work for this. You can like, look into it. She sent me so much proof. So.

• 18:12Alex Cooper?

  So you can confirm by speaking to this woman that he was involved with escorts?

• 18:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. And she sent the screenshots and it's his phone number. She wouldn't have known his phone number. Like I, I literally have it.

• 18:21Alex Cooper?

  And what kind of proof was she showing you?

• 18:24Speaker 01

  Just the messages he had sent and his phone number being attached. Also, she said this happened while he was in Texas and he was in Texas doing summer sales at the time. And this was before we filmed the show. So no one would have known that. So.

• 18:35Alex Cooper?

  Do you know after that moment if he continued with other escorts?

• 18:39Speaker 01

  I don't know, but I do know that literally like a month ago, my sister was out to dinner with her husband. And a friend of his came up to them and he's like, hey, man, like, how are you doing? And then he's like, by the way, are Jesse and Jordan still married? And they were like, yeah, why? And he goes, I go to these parties. And he's always there. And especially when they had their daughter, he was there a lot. That was like the time he was, you know, being seen. So. I don't, I don't have proof of those, but that's what I've heard.

• 19:06Alex Cooper?

  When you hear that, like, where does your head go?

• 19:09Speaker 01

  You know what's so messed up is my sister told me this like a few weeks ago. And she was like, I'm so sorry, like expecting me to cry. And I was like, you know what? This was like my final straw. Like I needed to hear this to like, be okay with like, moving on.

• 19:22Alex Cooper?

  Now, looking back, I'm like, You did in a form protect him because you went through this whole scandal of kissing Marciano twice.

• 19:31Speaker 01

  Which by the way, I kissed Marciano like two weeks after I found out about the escort stuff. And so I do think that influenced my decision. Not that it was okay, but I protected Jordan when that all came out.

• 19:41Alex Cooper?

  Okay, wait, hold on. So you find out before season one about the escort.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:46Alex Cooper?

  You start filming season one.

• 19:48Speaker 01

  No, we had filmed season one when it dropped. We were in New York and I found out when it was like live, season one just came out, we're in New York doing press and that's when I found out.

• 19:57Alex Cooper?

  And he completely denies the whole thing.

• 19:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:58Alex Cooper?

  Then you get proof and he continues to deny it.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  I showed him the proof and he was like, no, like they're gonna, they're gonna try to do this to us.

• 20:04Alex Cooper?

  Then the Marciano thing happens.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  Two weeks later.

• 20:07Alex Cooper?

  Two weeks later. Why did you protect him?

• 20:10Speaker 01

  Because he denied it and at the time I did believe him where I was like, you know, like I just, I think I was just putting my head in the sand and I was like, I don't want to know anything. Like it's fine. Like I just really just tried to believe him and then I did actually kiss someone. So then I felt so guilty. And when this came out, like I just was like, I have to own it because I did something wrong. I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to like deflect.

• 20:30Alex Cooper?

  So when do you think you stopped believing him?

• 20:34Speaker 01

  I think I always did believe it deep down, but then after he, the way he reacted during the Marciano stuff made me question it because you know how they say if someone else is hiding something, they're gonna accuse you of more. So I think that that's what made me realize is I'm like, are you hiding something? So you're like putting it all on me?

• 20:50Alex Cooper?

  Okay, we're gonna get to the Marciano thing because I want to go through all of that. But when it is alleged that he was using your money.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:57Alex Cooper?

  To pay for parties and for escorts.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:02Alex Cooper?

  Can you confirm that?

• 21:03Speaker 01

  I mean, it's hard to say at the, at the time of the escorts, he, he did work. So it could have been his, but when you're married, everything's both of yours. As of the last three years, everything has been my money. Like he does not work. I provide everything. And so if anything's happened within the last three years, it had been my money for sure.

• 21:20Alex Cooper?

  And when? This site was saying that he was paying for parties. What kind of parties do you think he was paying for?

• 21:29Speaker 01

  I have to believe they're orgies, like sex parties. I don't know what other kind of parties you would pay for. Like you just go to a party, you know? So that's what I have to believe. I've actually never asked him about this. I've just heard about it. But the funny thing is, I heard through my sister, who heard from someone who was there. And now it's also being reported. So I'm like, clearly there's some truth to it.

• 21:48Alex Cooper?

  Do you think any other people in Dad Talk were participating in these orgies?

• 21:53Speaker 01

  I have no idea. That's I actually haven't even thought about that possibility until now. I have no clue.

• 21:58Alex Cooper?

  We're like back to season one of Swinging, but worse. We're like, wait.

• 22:02Speaker 01

  We're like taking it up a notch, you know?

• 22:04Alex Cooper?

  Have you talked to any of the women about this?

• 22:06Speaker 01

  I have only told Macy and Michaela.

• 22:08Alex Cooper?

  What is their response?

• 22:09Speaker 01

  They were like, he's disgusting. To be fair, everyone in my life, friends, family, employees, everyone hates him. Like no one, when I got divorced, everyone I've told so far, it's been like, congratulations. Not one person has been like, I'm so sorry.

• 22:21Alex Cooper?

  I was gonna say, the entire internet is like, thank God she's so free.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 22:25Alex Cooper?

  How has that felt, seeing the public's response be so, not only just positive to your divorce, but like grateful that you're removing yourself from this?

• 22:34Speaker 01

  It was validating in a way, because I'm like, okay, I made the right decision, you know? Like, if everyone feels this way, there's got to be a reason. Because I was a little bit in denial for a while. I will say, like, there is a part of me, like, he's getting ripped apart online right now. And I do feel bad. Like, people are like talking about his looks, his personality. He'll never date anyone again. And so like, there is a part of me that like, I'm like, oh, I just like, I, it's not that I chose to break up with him during that because of it, but it just lined up that way. So I do feel guilty, but.

• 23:02Alex Cooper?

  But do you think he actually won't date anyone ever again?

• 23:06Speaker 01

  No.

• 23:06Alex Cooper?

  Has he been seeing anyone since you guys have been separated in the past few?

• 23:11Speaker 01

  Well, it's funny, because when I left him, he was like trying to be like, you're probably cheating on me again, you know? Because that's his only thing he, you know, blames me about. But I was like, no, this is because I'm not in love with you. This isn't about anyone else. I want to be alone. But I do think he's been talking to people. I, I've heard that through the grapevine, so.

• 23:25Alex Cooper?

  But now you can even see from your energy, you're like, I don't give a fuck.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  No.

• 23:29Alex Cooper?

  Like literally get away from me.

• 23:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:31Alex Cooper?

  Have you been in touch with Jordan since he filed?

• 23:34Speaker 01

  Um, so he texted me, I think because he knew the news was going to be coming out after I got the TMZ text. And he was like, by the way, I filed, but I didn't know it was going to be public. And I was like, that's funny because you gave him a statement, like you literally emailed TMZ what to say. So he was like, well, you know, I was advised that it was what was best for me. And I was just like, do not talk to me anymore. We will handle the kids through a third party. He has a history of being emotionally abusive. And so I was like, I'm not going to get into this. So we're, we're done here and we're, we're going to handle the kids through someone else.

• 24:04Alex Cooper?

  Is it true? I heard you changed your phone number?

• 24:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, he has no clue what it is now. I have my old phone to communicate with him about the kids, but he doesn't know my new phone number. It's going to be very separate now.

• 24:15Alex Cooper?

  How did you decide that was the right decision for you?

• 24:18Speaker 01

  Because he's spied on me in the past. Do you want to hear a funny story?

• 24:20Alex Cooper?

  Please.

• 24:21Speaker 01

  You know, Harry Jowsey.

• 24:22Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  So we have the same birthday. So last May, this was when me and Jordan are separated. Um, I responded to Harry's story and I was like, oh my gosh, birthday twins. He like voice memos me and you know how he talks? He's like, you naughty kitten, whatever. He's like,

• 24:33Alex Cooper?

  He's like, you naughty little possum.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  That's what it was. He was like, how's your birthday going, naughty possum? And I was like, good. How's yours? He's like, great. I'm going on a hike. That's it. Okay. This is in Instagram. I'm in Europe. I get a call at 4am from Jordan. He's like, do you have to tell me something? And I was like, what do you mean? He went to the links. He hacked my Instagram while we're separated, created a fake phone number to then send himself the audios and then have the phone number say, dude, I think you should know about this. Your wife's cheating on you. So he accused me of cheating on him, which Harry Jowsey said it was someone else. And then I found out it was him. And that's all it was. The audios are so innocent. Like it was just like, hey, how are you?

• 25:10Alex Cooper?

  Jesse, that's insane.

• 25:11Speaker 01

  So that's why I got a new phone number because he has done stuff like that. He's tracked me. He's like listened in on my cameras in my house. Um, so he's done stuff like that. So I was like, I have to like do things where he can't like look through my stuff.

• 25:21Alex Cooper?

  Wait, how did you find out he was tracking you?

• 25:24Speaker 01

  Um, well, he like has my location, but he like is very weird. If I ever turned it off, he's like, why did you turn off your location? Like, he's very strange about it.

• 25:31Alex Cooper?

  And with the cameras and all that, like, that is like a full safety issue.

• 25:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, there were times I was on the phone during our separation that he would, like, repeat conversations back to me. And he's like, I listened in on the camera. And I'm like, oh, and now that he's at home, he's unplugged all the cameras. So I can't, like, do anything, you know, like, I wouldn't try to anyway, but he's, he's calculated.

• 25:50Alex Cooper?

  Like, what?

• 25:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:51Alex Cooper?

  You're like, you're the one paying for escorts. You're the one going to orgy parties. And then his paranoia is completely being projected onto you.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  And he gets to be the victim, you know?

• 26:01Alex Cooper?

  And you're like, wait, how do you even think of this shit? It's like, because he's doing it himself.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  Yes. Yep.

• 26:07Alex Cooper?

  Are you still living together in that house?

• 26:09Speaker 01

  No. So I left. When I left, I said, you know, we need to figure out what to do with the house. And he was like, well, you can stay in the spare bedroom of the house I paid for. And I was like, you know, I think I'm gonna leave because he does have a history of being emotionally abusive. And we have had really bad fights where I've also been really angry, you know, don't get me wrong. And I was like, I don't think it's good for us to live together right now. So I'm at a hotel again. And that's where I've been for the last week and a half.

• 26:33Alex Cooper?

  But Jessie, why are you always the person that has to leave the house when you are the sole provider?

• 26:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:39Alex Cooper?

  You paid for that house. Like, that's your house.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  I mean, I have a text where he's like, you wanted this, so you can leave. Like, he's, he's making me. But also, he's like, well, you can stay in the spare bedroom if you want. But I don't feel right about living there with him. Also, he could spy on me if I'm at the house. He, he could have cameras that I don't know about. So I'm kind of like, I need to have that space and distance. But I'm gonna sell the house. And we're gonna each get our own place.

• 27:02Alex Cooper?

  How are the kids doing?

• 27:03Speaker 01

  They don't know yet. So that's the sad part about him leaking this before I did, is I have no idea what they're thinking. If, I don't know if he told them while I'm out of town without telling me. Um, they're young. They're six and three. So they'll be okay. Um,

• 27:16Alex Cooper?

  Have you been able to, like, FaceTime?

• 27:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I FaceTimed them this morning. And it was funny, because I was talking to Jagger, my son, and Jordan was like, kind of like snapping at him. And I was like, Jordan, don't do that. And he goes, don't talk to me. And I was like, okay, so that's how this is gonna be. So it's kind of hostile between me and Jordan at the moment, but the kids are gonna be. Be fine.

• 27:34Alex Cooper?

  And so are the kids staying in the house with Jordan while you're in the hotel?

• 27:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've tried. I've seen them a little bit where I'm like, hey, I'm gonna take them. And he's like, well, you can't take them overnight in a hotel. So he's trying to control me, but I've been to a lawyer and we're gonna do a 50 50 custody agreement. But I provided for those kids their whole lives. Like they want their mom, like they know who their mom is. And I know I'm a good parent. I know he's gonna try to mom shame me. That's gonna be his MO. But I know my kids are gonna be just fine.

• 28:00Alex Cooper?

  You're ready.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 28:10Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Airbnb. Okay, I am well into my third trimester now, so I haven't really been able to travel because I need to stay close to my doctor. But spending all this time at home has made me start thinking about all the places that I want to go once the baby is here. I have literally been sitting on my couch with the TV on, scrolling through Airbnb and planning trips. I am nowhere ready to take yet, but suddenly my vacation priorities, I will say, are completely different. Like, does the house have enough bedrooms? Is there a big kitchen? Does the furniture look baby safe? Or is every table covered in, you know, sharp corners? And obviously, we need an extra room for my mom,

• 28:53Alex Cooper?

  who has already made it very clear that she will not be leaving my side. She's like, I got you. I'm the babysitter, okay? And now that it is October, I'm picturing cooler weather, cozy sweaters. Oh, my God, maybe a little cottage where we can escape for a little weekend. That's what I love about booking a home on Airbnb. Whether you're traveling with family, friends, or your partner, everyone has space to relax while still being together. Even if you're traveling for a concert or a game, you have one place where everyone can get together and convene after. Before the holiday season gets busy, treat yourself to one more fall getaway and check out Airbnb while you're planning it. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Southern New Hampshire University. Daddy gang, let's get real, okay?

• 29:38Alex Cooper?

  We like to make our own rules. Southern New Hampshire University gets it. They let you learn. What you want with over 200 career focused programs, where you want with 100% online courses and how you want with no set class times. Basically, you get to call the shots from day one. Visit s n h u dot edu slash call her daddy to learn more. Call her daddy is brought to you by Shopify. Daddy gang, you know, I'm a little skeptical of the internet at times, aren't we all? But one thing I absolutely love is how much easier it has made starting a business. No matter what stage you're at, Shopify is the best place to start and grow a business.

• 30:21Alex Cooper?

  With Shopify, you get to own your storefront while still being discovered everywhere from Google to YouTube to the shop app. They also let you sell across Tik Tok, Instagram, Pinterest, even directly inside AI chats. So your customers can shop wherever they already are and your products can appear directly alongside content. So as someone is scrolling, they just become part of their feed. Shopify truly makes it so much easier for customers to discover and buy products wherever they're browsing. And this has been such a game changer for Unwell. I love being able to sell merch directly on all the call her daddy channels. So everything is in one place for the daddy gang. So ready to add entrepreneur to your list of accomplishments?

• 31:06Alex Cooper?

  Head to Shopify.com slash daddy. That's Shopify.com slash daddy. There's so much you just said, and I know there's so much we've seen also on television, but I also know there's a lot that we haven't seen because there's so many cast members and there's only so much of your life that can be shown. So I do kind of want to go back and talk about your relationship because I want to eventually get to how you confronted him that you said you wanted a divorce, what his reaction was. We're going to get into all that, but first let's just unpack like when you look back at the early days with Jordan, what was your relationship like in the very beginning days?

• 31:44Speaker 01

  It was good. We met very quickly. I blame our dynamic on that, honestly, because I had been married before. So this is my second divorce. And I separated. So to put it into context, I separated from my first husband in September and I got married in March. So it was really quick. Like I, I think I leaned on him for emotional support. He was going through a breakup. So was I. And we just kind of connected and clicked. And I think that I had been treated really badly in my first marriage as well. Which now looking back, I'm like, this is a pattern. Like I get into these situations because I'm self-conscious and I have issues. But he was there for me. So I think I just dove right in. The first year was fine, though.

• 32:22Alex Cooper?

  So would you say that first year you weren't arguing that much?

• 32:25Speaker 01

  No, yeah, it was pretty good. But I actually think that looking back, like, he's always been pretty controlling. And I think at the time I was just like, happy to be out of my last marriage. We had just had our son. Like, I was just kind of in a bubble. And then I started to notice patterns.

• 32:38Alex Cooper?

  What would typically set off an argument between the two of you?

• 32:42Speaker 01

  His control. I felt controlled in every aspect of my life. And he used to try to say, oh, I can't control you. You're not able to be controlled. I try and I can't because I'm independent.

• 32:51Alex Cooper?

  In those early days, what do you look back and be like, oh, that was fully controlled and maybe I didn't see it at the time?

• 32:57Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. I mean, it's just, he tries to control every aspect of my life, my business, how I should run my business. He would mom shame me and like tell me how to parent, but then not do it himself. Like, if I left the fridge door open, you know, like that beep that happens? I'd get yelled at. So to this day, when I hear like a beep of the fridge, I'm like, like my body goes into fight or flight. Like, it's just little things like that that add up. But also, like, I, like, if I wanted to go to dinner with friends, like, it was like, well, when are you going to be home? What are you doing? Where are you? Like, just constant.

• 33:24Alex Cooper?

  And was there any patterns when the arguments would start? Like, what do you look back on?

• 33:29Speaker 01

  I think that's why our relationship got to a pretty bad place is because I'm pretty like vocal and independent. So for the first year or two, I was just like, okay. And I think Jordan wants someone submissive. So I was kind of like that in the beginning. And then it started to get to this place where I'm like, no. And I would fight back. And so then it was just like, really bad because I'm fighting back and that makes it worse for him. And so we're just like going at it.

• 33:49Alex Cooper?

  Are there any things that he would like verbally criticize you for?

• 33:54Speaker 01

  Everything, everything. I remember being in therapy before we were like in the public eye and being like, I need you to criticize me less. It's like 90% criticism and 10% compliments. Anything I did, like how I ran my business, how I parented, my time management, how I cleaned the house, like every little thing, even like how I would like dress and like, you know, things like that.

• 34:15Alex Cooper?

  Like what would he say about how you dress?

• 34:17Speaker 01

  Oh, like that skirt's a little short. Are you gonna wear that? Like, you know, like just stuff like that. Um, so it just felt like I was constantly being dumped on. I will say there was, um, right before we separated last year before, like after the Marciano stuff, he had told me he wanted me to start doing Pilates every single day. Like he told me that and then he said, I think I believe in traditional gender roles and I want to be more in my masculine and I want you to be more in your feminine. And I was like, so like just control in areas like that as well. And I was like, do you know who you're married to?

• 34:46Alex Cooper?

  That is like so fucking backwards and also like, I'm also just like, how, how crazy for him to also like physically expect you to

• 34:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:58Alex Cooper?

  do Pilates every single day.

• 35:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:00Alex Cooper?

  Be the breadwinner, take care of the children, take care of him.

• 35:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:04Alex Cooper?

  There's such an unrealistic expectation when he's not even raising himself to any capacity of that standard.

• 35:10Speaker 01

  And to be fair, also he doesn't work and we had a full-time nanny. So like he wasn't even helping with the kids until nighttime.

• 35:17Alex Cooper?

  Was there anything that he expected to get approval over in your relationship from you?

• 35:23Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I feel like everything. Like it felt like I couldn't make a move without talking to Jordan about it. You know, like I had to get his advice, his opinion, like, but the thing is I never wanted to confide in him either because he's, he's not someone that is like, yes, like let me help you feel better and like give you advice in a logical way. It's always like putting me down while he's giving me advice and like playing devil's advocate, but telling me what I did wrong.

• 35:46Alex Cooper?

  And how would he justify that to you or try to justify it?

• 35:49Speaker 01

  He's like, I just know things. Like I'm really like, I, I, I'm smart in these areas. Like you should listen to me. Like look at all the mistakes you've made. Look at all the friends you've lost. You need to listen to me. So yeah, and now that I'm saying these out loud, I'm like, this is weird.

• 36:01Alex Cooper?

  No, no, it's not. It's first of all, do not feel weird or shame or embarrassed. Like, I think so many women relate to this. It's more, I'm cringing at him because of like the self righteousness that these men have over women. When again, it's like, you're home, you're the breadwinner, you're the one that's working, you're the one that was on mom talk, we will get to dad talk, don't worry. Um, can you explain though, like, what did a conflict like actually look like between the two of you? You're in the house, you're going through this dynamic, like, what was that like?

• 36:36Speaker 01

  The last five years, we have not, we've fought every single day, every single day. Like, imagine being in that with your partner who you're supposed to like, trust the most. I would say the worst it got, and actually why I separated from him last year is because this was the Pilates conversation. He, it got to a point where he was blackmailing me with Marciano texts, and he had them on a draft on his phone on TikTok. And anytime he was mad at me, he's like, I'm gonna post them, I'm gonna ruin your life. So, we were fighting over this Pilates stuff. And he was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna post the TikToks. And so I went to go grab his phone. I was like, Jordan, no, like, at the point, at this point, no one knew about what I had done. And I was like, you're gonna ruin my life, like, and my business too. Like, I employ 50 people, like, this could ruin everything. And he goes, so he's like, okay, and I'm freaking out. So I'm like, trying to get his

• 37:20Speaker 01

  phone. I'm like, kind of chasing him, trying to get it. He pulls out his phone, starts recording me, and he's like, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? Are you gonna be like, Taylor? Should I call the cops? And I was like, whoa. Because he's friends with Dakota, so he's like, hearing things like that, obviously. And so he's baiting me, and he's trying to be like, oh, oh, what are you doing? And that was the moment where for me, I was like, what am I doing? I am chasing around my husband, trying to get his phone, so he doesn't blackmail me? This is not healthy. And I literally left him the next day. I was like, this can't happen anymore.

• 37:46Alex Cooper?

  I mean, you're like a complete prisoner in your own home, where you're like, from what I understand, he decided to stay with you after that information?

• 37:53Speaker 01

  There was not even a second where he like, didn't. So, yeah.

• 37:56Alex Cooper?

  And then he continues to use this information as blackmail to further control you in the relationship.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:03Alex Cooper?

  Knowing that this cycle is gonna continue, because you're gonna feel like shit, because you do feel guilty about what you did.

• 38:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:09Alex Cooper?

  Also now having the information that you did know about the escorts that he completely gaslit you into believing didn't exist when now we know that actually was the case.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:17Alex Cooper?

  And he was the first person to step outside of the marriage.

• 38:20Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 38:20Alex Cooper?

  And then you, I'm not saying what you did was okay.

• 38:23Speaker 01

  No.

• 38:24Alex Cooper?

  But you kissed this man twice, you do not sleep with him, and this man is then blackmailing you into just fearing for your career and your reputation. That's horrible.

• 38:37Speaker 01

  It is. And like, um, I should have done what I did. I regret it so much. I just want to make that so clear, like for my kids to like have to hear about that one day. I want to take full responsibility, like.

• 38:48Alex Cooper?

  Of course.

• 38:48Speaker 01

  But I will say that like, having your partner blackmail you in that way, it was something I can, I could never get over. Even after we got back together and went through therapy, like, the person that you love the most and should care about you the most, even though you hurt them, should never put you in a situation where you feel like inside, you never, like you're walking on eggshells and you never know if your life's about to be ruined. And they have that power over you. So that was honestly like something that really ruined us. And yeah, it was, it was traumatizing.

• 39:15Alex Cooper?

  It's traumatizing and it's really sick because it's like he's getting off.

• 39:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:20Alex Cooper?

  On enjoying watching you have to be beholden to him.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, the control.

• 39:24Alex Cooper?

  Completely. When you look back at from beginning days to then obviously now you can see like the clear delineation between like whether it was like, oh, this is not the best relationship to like, this is emotional abuse.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:36Alex Cooper?

  Did it feel in the beginning when those really big fights started, like, okay, maybe this is just like normal relationship struggles? Or from the beginning, did you start to immediately be like, this is unhealthy? How do I get out?

• 39:48Speaker 01

  So my first marriage was pretty emotionally abusive, like worse than this one. And I, again, got married so quickly that I didn't have time to heal from that. So I think I attracted the same type of person without like realizing. And I think in my head, I was justifying it because I'm like, no, Jordan saved me from my other marriage. Like, he's my savior. Like, that's how I saw him. Like, he saved me from this dynamic. So there's no way he's doing this to me. And then over time, like same patterns of what I saw before in my past relationship like arise. And I was like, oh, um, but I had never. Ever said out loud to anyone, my friends and families, my friends and family were aware. They knew that he didn't treat me well. No one liked him. They would bring it up to me, but I would just kind of be like,

• 40:27Speaker 01

  that's Jordan. Um, but then in season four, you see my energy healer. Um, she actually, I was doing a session with her. And this was the same night of that Pilates fight, actually. And she, I sat down and she goes, are you safe? And I was like, what do you mean? And she goes, I just have a feeling I need to ask you. And, um, I just, I told her everything and it was the first time I said it out loud. And that was like the moment also that I was like, I have to leave him. And that's why we separated last year. Cause I'm like, I, as I'm saying out loud, she goes, Jesse, this is emotional abuse. And I never like, it didn't click to me until in that moment.

• 40:58Alex Cooper?

  How did it change for you after you said it out loud?

• 41:02Speaker 01

  Um, it was like a weight had fallen off where I was like, and it was almost like something clicked and I was like seeing it clearly for the first time. And I was like, oh, like I just kind of like, was like, that's Jordan's personality. Like this marriage is hard, you know, like which it is. But that's how I justified it. But when she literally, I had someone saying this is emotional abuse. And then I started opening up to my friends and family and they were like, Jesse, this isn't normal. It, it felt like the glass had shattered.

• 41:26Alex Cooper?

  Well, and just to also validate any woman who is going through this, it's like, so many people can be like, oh my God, is there a pattern? Like you went through this in your first marriage and this is second. It's like, of course there's a pattern because it's so hard to break out of. It's familiar. It's something that you get used to. It's like you've been beaten down and you're, you're sitting there and your self-worth is depleted and you're not feeling good about yourself. So then you find someone like a Jordan who like, emotional abuse does not just start day one.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  No.

• 41:56Alex Cooper?

  It's like, it is this very, very, um, crazy, like confusing masked thing that you can't, it's not tangible. You, you can't see it. And, and so it's psychological. And when it's so embedded psychologically, there is also something within you that is willing to be like, but maybe I am not worthy and this is maybe what I am going through. And so like, maybe I deserve this or maybe this is normal. Because if you've only lived seeing that and like, I don't know much about your upbringing, but like, did you have like a good representation of?

• 42:32Alex Cooper?

  You know, love in your life?

• 42:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have the best family. So that's what's crazy is like my parents, my sisters, like best family in the world, which by the way, my sisters love you and like they're so excited I'm here.

• 42:42Alex Cooper?

  I love them.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  Um, but no, I have the best family. I think it was like childhood wounds of like not feeling good enough with other friends and you know, things like that. And then I got into things where I didn't feel good enough already. And then I got into that and it was like 10 times worse. And you're right, it's familiar. So I looked for the same person subconsciously because it's what I was used to. And that quote is so like old, but it's so true of like you um, accept the love you think you deserve. And that's what happened to me.

• 43:06Alex Cooper?

  I think it was season three. I remember just feeling so

• 43:11Alex Cooper?

  bad for you and your family when your sisters were sitting on the ground, your mom was there. And you were like, I could tell my mom wasn't even shocked and she like, was like hoping we would really just end it. It was when you guys were about to go into the 90 day break. And your sister was like, you haven't been Jesse for so long. And it was like this outcry to you, but also you could tell she was so aware, like she couldn't get to you, but she wanted you to know that like she still remembered who you were without this abuse. And like, she knew you were going to come back to yourself one day.

• 43:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:43Alex Cooper?

  And it takes you being it like it, no one can get you out of it but yourself, right?

• 43:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up because I do feel like I've been a shell of myself in this relationship. And I used to tell that to Jordan. He's like, like, that's not true. Like you have every right to make your own life. And I'm like, your partner affects you so much. Like they can influence every single thing about your life, your happiness. And I did lose myself and the people closest to me saw that.

• 44:07Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. Can you um, talk a little bit about what kind of romantic connection that you and Jordan were able to maintain with each other while having this emotionally abusive relationship?

• 44:21Speaker 01

  So our sex life was like pretty good for a while because again, I hadn't really realized what was going on. I was just kind of hiding it. But I will say since the separation and getting back together, my body Has told me, I want women in this situation to know that like your body will tell you. I like anytime you tried to have sex with me, I would clam up. I would have panic attacks after I would cry after. I didn't want him to touch me. Like even if he was just like passing me like in the house and like grabbed my arm or whatever. I was like, don't touch me. And I would say that to him and he's like, what's wrong with you? But your body knows. So I just want like anyone in this situation, men or women, like the everyone goes through it at some point. Not everyone, but people have gone through it. Listen, your body knows. Like that book, Your Body Keeps The Score. My body was trying to tell me for like a whole year.

• 45:04Alex Cooper?

  Right, like we're not safe.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:06Alex Cooper?

  Of course, you can't relax and enjoy yourself.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 45:08Alex Cooper?

  In an intimate setting with someone that you don't feel safe with.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:12Alex Cooper?

  I also think there was such a highlight when we would watch the seasons on the success of your business and mom talk. Jordan did end up quitting his job so that he could help with the kids and that so he could film more. Initially, were you guys aligned on that decision for him to quit his job?

• 45:29Speaker 01

  Yes, because at the time he quit, we had just had our daughter. So she was a newborn. We had our toddler as well. And he was traveling for work. So he was in Texas, California, like all over the place. And I was like, I can't run a business, start to film this show and raise two kids. So I did initiate that. I was like, I need you to like, but I did say, I need you to find something here. I thought he was still gonna work. He just took that as I'm gonna quit and we were, I was making good money. So like he didn't need to work. But looking back, I'm like, I should have like had him help out with the kids more though. Like there were, he got to golf all day, you know?

• 46:00Alex Cooper?

  How do you think becoming the sole provider of the family impacted your relationship long term?

• 46:08Speaker 01

  I think that for me, in the future, like I am totally fine being that person. I'll probably always make the most money. But I do want a guy that has like passions and like something of his own. It doesn't matter how much money he makes, but I will say with Jordan, since he believes in like the traditional gender roles, I think he really loved the lifestyle I provided, but he had a really hard time being like, I'm not the man. I'm not the provider, which is such a Mormon like toxic way of thinking. All the men, like, look at the men in our group, like a lot of them had those issues. So I think he was very like intimidated by it, but he also liked having the money.

• 46:41Alex Cooper?

  Right. It's like his ego, once the door opened and it was public, couldn't take it. But behind the scenes, he's like, I love this. I'm golfing every day.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  Exactly. He has it so easy.

• 46:48Alex Cooper?

  Someone checks him, he's like embarrassed and can't take it.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:51Alex Cooper?

  Did he ever start to make any comments to you negatively about how being a stay at home dad made him feel?

• 46:58Speaker 01

  Oh, he just told me from the beginning, he said, I believe in gender roles and not from the beginning, but like when he quit his job, sorry. He goes, I'm just, you know, I'm not meant to be that role. And he would mom shame me a lot. Like the kids need their mom, you're gone a lot. And so I can't fill that role. Like I'm the dad and I'm not meant to be a stay at home dad. I don't want to do that. So it was hard for me because I'm like, I want a partner that if I do have to work and travel for that job, I can trust that like the dad wants to be with the kids. Like this is a partnership. You're not a babysitter. You chose to have these children.

• 47:27Alex Cooper?

  Right. It's not, well, it's also just so unfair. It's like he's getting to enjoy all the spoils of your hard work. But then he's also like, and you have to do all the stuff that I'm also not really doing that I should be doing because I gotta go golf. I got a tea time at 8 a.m. babe.

• 47:41Speaker 01

  And you're like, do you know how many times I've heard that sentence?

• 47:43Alex Cooper?

  And you're like, there's no fucking way. There's no way.

• 47:47Speaker 01

  It's so bad.

• 47:47Alex Cooper?

  Eventually Jordan did, I don't even want to say return to work, kind of through dad talk.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 47:55Alex Cooper?

  What was your initial reaction to that?

• 47:59Speaker 01

  So at first the dads got together to like make funny videos to make fun of us. So we were like, this is hilarious. I don't think we ever thought it was going to turn into what they tried to make it. Um, as time went on, I was like, okay, this is like cringy. Like I don't like this. And it became a thing with me and Jordan where it was like competitive. Like we were competing. Like you got this opportunity. You got this many followers. You got this many views. Look what I got. Like he, he became very competitive with it. And I was like, this is gross. Like men should not be acting this way in a relationship where it's like you're threatened by like my success that pays our bills. So it turned into a really hostile thing for us.

• 48:33Alex Cooper?

  Did you talk about this with the other women? Like, did they feel this also? Like, I'm cringing from dad talk?

• 48:38Speaker 01

  Oh, all of us, yes. Like, we all made fun of it. We're like, what is happening? And it's hard, because everyone, the audience is always like, less dad talk. And we're like, we agree.

• 48:46Alex Cooper?

  We agree.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  But also, they're in our lives. And this is about our lives. So it's really hard to, like, not have them around. But now, for me, it'll be easier.

• 48:52Alex Cooper?

  No, that's a good point. I remember he said, dad talk doesn't need to be in mom talk's shadows. But first of all, there wouldn't be a dad talk if there wasn't mom talk and everything that you guys have built. Did you feel like he was riding on your coattails?

• 49:04Speaker 01

  1,000%. I mean, any brand deal that he got was because of me. We had to do them together. He may, maybe has gotten one or two on his own. But, like, we did one with Cafe Rio. We had to do it together, you know? So everything was tied to me. And so, and even, like, he's on Cameo and he'll try to be like, come say hi in this cameo, you know? So.

• 49:21Alex Cooper?

  Right, it's like, you're getting used. And you're like, if it really is your own thing, then do it as your own thing. Don't have to involve me, because then it should just be, it's, then it's getting my money.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 49:38Alex Cooper?

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• 50:21Alex Cooper?

  And when you give me that, plus a good chocolate, I'm gonna have that in my freezer. Every single night, I'm gonna pop one in. I am obsessed. I love it so much. Taste the joy with every bite of My Mochi Ice Cream. Look for the green and brown box of My Mochi Dubai Chocolate Ice Cream in the freezer aisle of your local grocery store.

• 50:41Speaker 01

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• 50:42Alex Cooper?

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• 51:26Alex Cooper?

  BetterHelp therapists have at least three years and 1,000 hours on hand experience and hold all required education, training, and certifications. You can meet with a range of professionals from marriage and family therapists to social workers and counselors. So Daddy Gang, if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/daddy. That's betterh-e-l-p.com/daddy. Going back to the affair, I think that obviously now even just sitting here, like I'm trying to rack my brain because I obviously didn't know that the escorts came before Marciano. So I'm sure everyone's watching

• 52:10Alex Cooper?

  this and we're all like, the meme of the woman like doing the math. I'm like, hold on, like, it really changes so much because I'm now, I'm sure people are going to go back and clip things of like, the way he acted and how he was so upset with you and the betrayal, which was so fair. But now I'm like, oh my God, he was such a liar. Like, he was the, What like?

• 52:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:35Alex Cooper?

  Um, when you look back, you said that that moment was essentially a cry for help.

• 52:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:41Alex Cooper?

  When you stepped outside of the marriage, what did you mean by that?

• 52:44Speaker 01

  So I felt so trapped in that marriage, you know, like I couldn't do anything right. I was so beaten down emotionally and I was just so unhappy, deeply unhappy in what I was in. But I felt trapped, like not only with like my money and my business, like you saw in season four, but also just he made me feel like I couldn't leave. And so, and for my kids too. So I was just really, really upset and I met Marciano and it was the first person who was like nice to me and told me I was cool and pretty and fun and like that I was worth something. And I just remember being like, oh, like this is how a man should talk to you. And not that it's okay what I did by any means, but I do feel like I was like, I'm gonna, I, I remember thinking like, if I do this tonight, just kissing him, by the way, it will give me a reason to be done.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  Like it'll give Jordan a reason to leave me, like I can be free.

• 53:32Alex Cooper?

  And so in a way, it was like you were looking for an out. You were almost like kind of trying to self sabotage.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  Yes, even if it was me that like did the bad thing, I was like, maybe this could end it.

• 53:43Alex Cooper?

  And when then you guys went on that 90 day break?

• 53:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:47Alex Cooper?

  And you did decide to stay together, what was fueling you to not just walk away?

• 53:52Speaker 01

  I was so scared and that's how I felt the last year, to be honest, but I was scared of being alone. I was scared of hurting him. I was scared of the unknown and the kids, like I've been divorced before and it sucked. And this time I have kids, so I'm like, I don't want to go through that and put my family through it with the business and the prenup and all that. There was just so much weighing on me with that. Um, so I was just scared. I was really, really scared.

• 54:13Alex Cooper?

  In that time, obviously we saw some stuff on camera, but like what conversations with this affair coming to light, did it force you to have with Jordan? Like, was there anything you were able to admit about the relationship that you had been previously too scared to say?

• 54:29Speaker 01

  Um, he had been well aware of how I felt about like the emotional abuse and all that, but he never acknowledged it until the affair came out and it was public. And we started going to therapy during our separation. And in therapy, he finally admitted like, um, I do know I got you to this place. I am the instigator in this. I started this cycle and it was emotional abuse. He has said all of those words to me. He may deny it now, but he has said all of that, but he had never said that before.

• 54:52Alex Cooper?

  Okay, so that gives a little bit of clarity of why you would be like, okay, maybe there is some path to moving forward. Like, someone saying, like, I see that this was emotional abuse. I see I got you here. Like, I'm willing to change.

• 55:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. Why not give it a shot?

• 55:08Alex Cooper?

  Right. Having kids with someone, you're like, whoa. Because most people, you'd expect them to never admit that. And of course, it wasn't on camera. But like,

• 55:16Speaker 01

  And I will say, the last year, Jordan has made some changes. Like, he's really tried in a lot of areas. But I think for me, it was like, you're trying and you are making changes, but it's, I'm still not in love with you. And at the end of the day, like, you do deserve to be loved the way that works for you, and same with me. And if you're gonna make these changes, great for yourself, but it doesn't work for me. But I gave it my all, and I had that year to really try. And I don't regret it now, because I, I did everything I could.

• 55:40Alex Cooper?

  You can genuinely say and look at your kids and be like, I tried.

• 55:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 55:43Alex Cooper?

  Something that is a byproduct of being in a toxic situation, or an abusive situation, is the way that it impacts your self-image and your self-worth.

• 55:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:55Alex Cooper?

  You posted a really vulnerable TikTok where you opened it up about regretting some of the cosmetic procedures that you've done recently. Why was that something you decided to share?

• 56:05Speaker 01

  Because I do get a lot of hate for what I get done. And I didn't want everyone watching thinking that I just, like, wanted to look this way, or I wanted this. Like, it didn't go the way I planned. And so I wanted to talk about it. But it also has made me realize, like, I got my surgeries after season four, and I looked back and I was like, I looked so good in season four. What was I thinking? And I never would have been able to say that before. But it gave me, like, clearer perspective of, like, I don't need to get all this work done. But I think I was in two marriages where, like, I had two husbands who treated me so badly that I was like, um, that was the only thing I could control. And that may sound weird, but it was like, I can't do anything else right. So like, I can control my appearance. And I think it became a coping mechanism for me.

• 56:46Alex Cooper?

  To have the ability to control something in your life when everything else is chaos is a way that we, in our heads, cope and survive. But I think, obviously, sometimes then it can be at the detriment of ourselves. We just don't see it in the moment. What do you think is your biggest regret when it came to those procedures?

• 57:04Speaker 01

  Um, so I got one surgery, um, like, three months ago. And that was, I just shouldn't have done any of it. I got an upper and lower bleph, and then some fat grafting in the face. But I didn't want the fat grafting. I just kind of said, like, I just wanted the eyes. And he was like, well, you need this to balance it out. And I was like, okay. Like, I just kind of listened to what I was told. And Looking back, I'm like, I didn't need that or want that. So I just wish that I would have not done any of it because I didn't need it, you know?

• 57:30Alex Cooper?

  No, and I can imagine like even you saying like now you're getting to this place where you're watching season four and you're like, what the fuck? Like I looked great.

• 57:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:38Alex Cooper?

  Um, you look great now.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you.

• 57:40Alex Cooper?

  Don't be that hard on yourself, but I get it. It's more of like an internal thing of like watching yourself drive yourself to a point where you're thinking something's going to solve something.

• 57:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 57:48Alex Cooper?

  And really that's not the solve. You could continue to get work done. That's not really the issue.

• 57:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:53Alex Cooper?

  Throughout season four, all of the women were so vocal about how much they disliked Jordan. Like it was every scene, it felt like, right? What do you think overall was their biggest issue with him?

• 58:09Speaker 01

  Um, the way he treated me for sure. They saw things, they heard things. Um, and the just the way he's kind of demeaning to women and he would talk badly about my friends, which is so weird to be like, my husband's talking shit on my best friend. Like, what do I do? Like that, it was such a hard position to be in and he's a big mouth and he would tell people things and kind of exaggerate things. You kind of see that play out, but I think those issues were what everyone struggled with.

• 58:30Alex Cooper?

  Well, yeah, I almost think there's like a thing with men where you're like, okay, women, we can like gossip, like.

• 58:34Speaker 01

  No, it's not for boys.

• 58:35Alex Cooper?

  Like literally this is a woman's game. Like stop gossiping and shit stirring. Like you need to get out of here. Like this is a woman's field. Okay. Also influencing is also our area.

• 58:44Speaker 01

  Thank you. That is how I feel. I'm like, it's icky. Like, stop.

• 58:48Alex Cooper?

  Um, no, that makes sense because I think, and also seeing their distaste for him, I felt, yeah, it just felt really palpable where it couldn't be escaped. I also thought that what was really hard, I remember it was episode one, where you walk in and you have this overnight bag.

• 59:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:07Alex Cooper?

  And what was so sad, Jessie, was like the fact that your friends like know the exact bag that you usually carry if you'd spent the night at the hotel and you didn't sleep at your home. Like it was that obvious to them because it clearly was that. Clearly like occurring quite often.

• 59:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:26Alex Cooper?

  I just like, I guess when you would show up to those events and he would be there and you would have your bag like, and you would have to put on a brave face when you look back, like, is there anything you wish you could have done differently in those moments for yourself?

• 59:39Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh, I'm so glad you asked this because something I've realized throughout all this is I have gotten very good at stuffing my emotions down and like, I'm here. Because, you know, now the show, I have so many things I have to do. I have to be on camera, but before that I was teaching hair classes and I was running a business. So, I get in huge fights with Jordan and then I have to turn it on and go teach hundreds of people and be there for my employees. And I literally had to learn that as a coping mechanism to the point where it's really hard for me to cry now and it's really hard for me to face my emotions and be vulnerable. The show has helped me. I watched season four and I was like, oh, I cried more than I thought. Okay, that's good. It's progress. But yeah, I'm very good at just being like, I'm totally fine. And I wish that I would have just taken more time to like,

• 1:00:20Speaker 01

  look internally and be like, you're not okay. And it's okay to not be okay. And you don't have to put on a brave face. And I'm working on that in therapy now, but that.

• 1:00:28Alex Cooper?

  No, it's, it's a great point. It's like, we watched it and that's that scene, but then you're right, you did cry this season. We watched you cry at your anniversary dinner.

• 1:00:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:35Alex Cooper?

  Because you were concerned about the future of your relationship. And meanwhile, Jordan suggested renewing your vows.

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:43Alex Cooper?

  How were you both on such different pages in that moment?

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  I mean, Jordan wanted this, you know, he wanted to stay. He wanted to make this work. So I think he was just grasping at straws, trying to be like, what can I do? And maybe he thought it was like romantic, but I was, I literally, I think you could see it in my body language. I'm like, that's, this isn't the time, like,

• 1:00:58Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:00:58Speaker 01

  No, you can't even like, like, it made me feel like he wasn't even listening to me.

• 1:01:04Alex Cooper?

  You recently changed your last name.

• 1:01:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:07Alex Cooper?

  For business purposes is how it was presented. And Jordan did not take it well, and he called you extremely selfish. Now that you are getting divorced, which we're about to get to, um, was it really for business purposes or was that you consciously or subconsciously kind of taking that first step of?

• 1:01:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, it was an easy first step almost. Um, I definitely did it for business reasons because like my name's hard to say. Nati Kara is so hard to pronounce. So it made sense. I also have a family business. We're all Draper. So made sense, but I do think deep down I was like, if this ever happens, it'll be easier because everyone will know me as Jesse Draper already.

• 1:01:45Alex Cooper?

  Do you think he kind of knew what was happening and that's why he was freaking out so much?

• 1:01:50Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, like completely. And he also like he, he likes to justify it this way, but he was like, so when I met Marciano in the villa, we had all had a conversation at the villa about our names and how to spell them. And they were trying to figure out how to spell my last name. Everyone is a group. And I was like, well, my last, my other last name's Draper. Like you can call me that instead. And so Marciano would call me that. So he was like, you're doing this because you want Marciano again. And he like completely flipped it into something like that. And I think that's why he like called me selfish 20 times and stuff like that.

• 1:02:17Alex Cooper?

  What is the status of your relationship with Marciano?

• 1:02:19Speaker 01

  Oh, I have not talked to him in almost a year. Yeah, that's, that's done and over. Don't worry.

• 1:02:24Alex Cooper?

  Um, okay, let's go to the divorce.

• 1:02:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:27Alex Cooper?

  What was the actual moment you knew you needed? Okay. It's gonna happen. I need this divorce.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  So in the last year, I've told him actually a few different times I want to get divorced, but he always like calms me down. Give me a few days. Let's try to work on it. He's better for a few days and then it goes back. Um, but what happened was I had been in limbo for a while and anyone that's lived in limbo knows it's excruciating where I'm like, I don't know if this is right or not. I literally woke up one day and I was like, it's such a simple thought, but I was like, I can change this. I can change my life. I can be happy. It's gonna be hard, but I can do this and my life doesn't have to be this way. And it was like something flipped. And I was like, I'm done. And I could not go back after that. It was the weirdest thing.

• 1:03:10Alex Cooper?

  Okay. So can you walk me through moment by moment of that day? Like,

• 1:03:16Alex Cooper?

  how did you tell him? How did, where were you?

• 1:03:18Speaker 01

  Okay. So this hap- that feeling came to me on a Thursday and I told him on Friday, the next day. I wasn't gonna tell him till the weekend because I was like, let's, you know, I'll get the kids out of the house and whatever. But on Friday, he came up to my room. I was getting ready in my closet and he was like, I just talked to the kids therapist because we have them in therapy and she thinks we need to start going together every week. them and can you make that happen and I was like, oh, I'm leaving you this weekend like ah, but I couldn't say that. So I was like, I just don't know if our if our schedules are gonna work like it may work if you take them and I take them and he was like, why the kids are the most important thing like, why? And I was like, I I want to get divorced. I just said it and he was like, okay, and his emotions were like calm, then mad, and then he kind of gaslit me and was like, you're not healed enough. That's why like you can't love yourself yet. So

• 1:04:01Speaker 01

  you need to figure that out first and then you'll realize this isn't what you want. And then he was like, you know, you're you're cheating on me again. And I'm like, like, it was all over the place. And I just had to be like, Jordan, like, I need you to know, I've thought about this every single day for the last four years. And this is, I'm choosing myself. And, you know, we fought a little bit, but he finally understood. And yeah.

• 1:04:22Alex Cooper?

  So then he finally understands, does he leave the room? And like, do you just go about your day?

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  No, he's like, still talking to me and it kind of got to a point where he was like, gaslighting me and stuff. So I finally was like, this is how most of our fights are. I'm like, I'm leaving. I need you to stop. And he literally followed me downstairs and I had to like get in my car and drive off.

• 1:04:37Alex Cooper?

  And then did you sleep in the house that night?

• 1:04:39Speaker 01

  No, I have not been back since. I've been back to see the kids. I did sleep there one night, actually, but other than that, I've been at a hotel.

• 1:04:46Alex Cooper?

  How was sleeping there that one night?

• 1:04:49Speaker 01

  So, okay, this is where actually I think a lot of women will relate. So I was in a hotel and I had a girl tonight with my friends. This was maybe two days after I left and we were drinking wine and just talking about it. And I was like, so sad. And I could not sleep that night. And at 4am, I was like, I'm Ubering home. I want to be with my kids. I want to be in my house. I just felt so like I didn't have a home. I was like so misplaced. And I went home and I just, I went into the bed and he was there and I ended up having sex with him because he was like, just one more time, one more time. And I I told him, no, probably 20 times. And I was like, okay, but if I do, this doesn't change anything. And he was like, it won't, it won't. And I did. But literally, I'm so glad I did because after that moment, I was like, ah, no, never again, never again. This was my answer.

• 1:05:32Alex Cooper?

  You're like, I'm so repulsed by so many things happening right now.

• 1:05:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I was drunk and sad. And I just was like, I miss my family. And but yeah, it was a good closing of the chapter.

• 1:05:42Alex Cooper?

  Damn.

• 1:05:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:43Alex Cooper?

  And so the next morning you wake up.

• 1:05:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:46Alex Cooper?

  And do you just get more clothes and go back to the hotel?

• 1:05:49Speaker 01

  And I never have been back since to sleep there.

• 1:05:52Alex Cooper?

  How are you managing that with your kids?

• 1:05:55Speaker 01

  Um, so I will go over, so they go to school in the morning and so he'll take them to school and then I'll pick them up and then be with them in the evening, put them to bed and then he'll come back and we just switch off. So I'm going to get a place soon where we can do 50 50, but I just don't want to take them to a hotel.

• 1:06:07Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 1:06:08Speaker 01

  It'll be hard.

• 1:06:08Alex Cooper?

  And this house, obviously, like, do you, do you think he's ready to get rid of this house?

• 1:06:14Speaker 01

  Absolutely not, no.

• 1:06:16Alex Cooper?

  But you're getting rid of it?

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  I, I think it's the best thing to do.

• 1:06:19Alex Cooper?

  Can we talk about this prenup?

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:21Alex Cooper?

  Because obviously, season four, we watch you and every woman is like,

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:29Alex Cooper?

  No, like you make the money. How did this happen? Like, can you explain where are you at with the prenup? Are you okay? Are you going to have to give him 50% of everything you own? Where are we?

• 1:06:43Speaker 01

  So I went to lawyers who are amazing and they were like, okay, it's actually valid. You don't need a witness signature as long as both of you have signed it, which we have. So thank God. Um, I don't have to give him anything for my businesses, but I will have to pay alimony and child support most likely. And then I might have to do some sort of payout. We haven't gotten there yet because he filed yesterday. Um, so I actually don't know the details of that yet, but I do know like he can't take my business or, you know, anything like that. So I'm happy about that.

• 1:07:08Alex Cooper?

  So he, he does, he's not entitled to anything with your business. That's a complete separate entity.

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:07:13Alex Cooper?

  It existed before you met him. It will continue to exist.

• 1:07:16Speaker 01

  And he never did anything to contribute to it. So.

• 1:07:19Alex Cooper?

  Right. Oh, right. That's probably a clause. Like, how much did he contribute?

• 1:07:21Speaker 01

  He was working there maybe, you know, but no.

• 1:07:24Alex Cooper?

  And when it comes to this, do you feel like

• 1:07:30Alex Cooper?

  at all resentful if there's going to have to be a payout?

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  A little bit. Um, Kelsea Ballerini has a breakup album that I have been like so resonating with. And I think there was like a, like I had to give him half. There was like a lyric in there. And I resonate with that so much because I'm like, it sucks that like, yes, I made mistakes in this relationship too. And he, he does deserve something, but all the hard work that I've done, I've built my business up from the ground, me and my family. And you just get to like, get a chunk of that. Like if I do have to do that. So because we have kids, I'm okay with it because I want them to have a dad who has some, some stability. Yeah, some stuff. But yeah, it just, it sucks.

• 1:08:04Alex Cooper?

  Um, how do you feel though? Because you referenced at the beginning of this episode, you said that he put in, it was because of the cheating.

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:12Alex Cooper?

  It wasn't, um, irreconcilable differences, right? Do you think that's going to be? Change, do you think you are, I mean, you could technically say he also cheated.

• 1:08:23Speaker 01

  That's kind of why I'm willing to talk about it now. I mean, it did get leaked, but because I was like, well, are you trying to get more money out of me? And that's the reason you did that? Well, I'm going to tell them what you did then. There should be no secrets if you're going to out me like that. So.

• 1:08:36Alex Cooper?

  How do you think he's going to react when he hears you talking about this?

• 1:08:40Speaker 01

  Oh, he's gonna hate this and he's gonna mom shame me and say I'm a bad mom for doing this. Which by the way, I'm not like excited to go like expose this. Like it does suck for our children, but I think as a mom, what I've had to come to terms with is that I will tell my children about my mistakes, my affair, my plastic surgery's gone wrong, this dynamic. I don't want my daughter to ever be treated the way I've been treated. And I just, I'm going to be honest with them and I think that it's okay to talk about this because A, we're on reality TV. We can't really hide from it. We can't have secrets when you're public. But B, like I'm going to teach this to my children and tell them what to avoid and what to change, you know, in their lives if this ever happens to them.

• 1:09:18Alex Cooper?

  And I think that's the right way to approach it, right? Like that's all you can do is be honest.

• 1:09:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:23Alex Cooper?

  Is he still denying the escorts?

• 1:09:25Speaker 01

  I have no idea. I haven't actually talked to him about it in a while. Now that it's leaking, I may hear from him about it, but I've just, I haven't brought it up with him since.

• 1:09:33Alex Cooper?

  It's going to be really interesting to see with the alleged orgies and the escorts, like, are there other people in dad talk or that world that we're also partaking like? There's so much emphasis on you and especially just the women being these people and we're so focused on their wrongdoing.

• 1:09:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:53Alex Cooper?

  And it's like, well, what have the men been up to?

• 1:09:55Speaker 01

  No, literally. I do think the rest of the men are angels, like Jase, Jacob, Connor, like the sweetest men. I do not, I no, absolutely not. Um, I think that Jordan, it sounded like he was partaking in some of this when I was having Jovi is what it sounds like. And, um, that was before he had met any of those guys. I mean, you never know, but like, I really think it was like how he's been for a while.

• 1:10:17Alex Cooper?

  Okay, how do you think your divorce will impact Mom Talk and just the future filming in general?

• 1:10:24Speaker 01

  That's a good question. Right now, I think we're all trying to survive. So we're like, let's not worry about cameras. Let's just get through this storm. But I think we are all excited to pick back up and just like, continue to tell these stories. I mean, the fact that this is all happening while we're down, like my divorce, I didn't plan that. But I think it also shows that I made it for the, made this decision for the right reasons. Cause Jordan would always tell me like, you do things for the show, like you're just separating from me for the show. But I'm like, no, I did this with cameras down. So that shows you I'm serious.

• 1:10:49Alex Cooper?

  None of that conversation was filmed?

• 1:10:51Speaker 01

  Nothing, no.

• 1:10:53Alex Cooper?

  And then he goes to TMZ.

• 1:10:55Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:10:56Alex Cooper?

  And now you're here in long form, getting to tell your truth.

• 1:10:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:00Alex Cooper?

  Wow. So now you, when cameras pick back up, you're going to essentially have to.

• 1:11:05Speaker 01

  You know, fill in the gaps.

• 1:11:06Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, fill in the gaps.

• 1:11:07Speaker 01

  And I'm sure if we pick back up soon too, like more is gonna happen. This isn't over.

• 1:11:12Alex Cooper?

  How does it feel to sit here and tell your story?

• 1:11:15Speaker 01

  It feels surreal. You know what's so crazy is I, I, in season four, I was like, I really want to go on Call Her Daddy. I had said that. And I was like, maybe I'll get two for season three, because I just love you. Um, but the timing wasn't right. It, it wasn't right. And now it is.

• 1:11:28Alex Cooper?

  Well, girl, yeah. We were like, but now I'm getting divorced. So I guess this war.

• 1:11:33Speaker 01

  Well, I would have come on six months ago and tried to protect him and been like, we're working through it. It wouldn't have been genuine. And now I get to be free and like, tell my story. So it feels really good.

• 1:11:41Alex Cooper?

  It is so sad and also, like you said, healing of like, yes, there's been so much damage done from the relationship. Yes, the fact that you are now able to look back and be like, that was an emotionally abusive relationship. I don't want my children to ever go through something like that. I don't want to continue to go through something like that. I need to leave. I do think it's also a testament to people watching of like, how hard it is to leave something.

• 1:12:04Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:12:04Alex Cooper?

  That is abusive. You just said, I've been thinking about this, Jordan, for four fucking years. And when someone sits there and is like, but why didn't you leave? Like, go back to what we've talked about. The manipulation, the way, the control, all the things, the fact that you just, a, a, a normal situation would be, I want a divorce. And they'd say, oh, my God. Well, okay, I get, it's like, no, you're not healed. You're not in your right mind. It's constant manipulation.

• 1:12:26Speaker 01

  And I still have those thoughts now. I'm still like, even doing this, I'm like, he's gonna be so mad. Do I need to protect him? Like, that's my inner voice right now.

• 1:12:33Alex Cooper?

  How are you pushing through that and not self sabotaging and going back to him?

• 1:12:37Speaker 01

  Um, well, he pissed me off yesterday by filing. So I'm like, I'm gonna burn it down. Shouldn't have done that.

• 1:12:43Alex Cooper?

  You're like, you know what? This is your doing.

• 1:12:45Speaker 01

  It is.

• 1:12:46Alex Cooper?

  I probably would have been a little bit nicer.

• 1:12:47Speaker 01

  He did try to tell me because I was like, I'm, I'm done talking to you. We have to work through a third party for the kids. Now he goes, well, you did this. Just remember that you wanted this. And I'm like, I didn't go to TMZ. You did this. You started this war.

• 1:12:58Alex Cooper?

  Right. I wasn't going to make it messy, but now if you're going to go to TMZ.

• 1:13:01Speaker 01

  Yep. He started the online stuff.

• 1:13:03Alex Cooper?

  Yep. Okay. Dating.

• 1:13:06Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:13:07Alex Cooper?

  Like, what are you feeling? Are you going to take some time before you jump back in? Is there anyone that you would be interested in that you have your eye on? Like, what are we feeling?

• 1:13:17Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh. Alex, I haven't dated since I was 20. Like, I got married at 21, married Jordan right after. Like, I'm so nervous. Like, I'm like a giddy 15 year old. Like, I'm like, how do I date? Like, I have no clue.

• 1:13:28Alex Cooper?

  Okay, you can't rush into anything.

• 1:13:30Speaker 01

  That's my mistake.

• 1:13:31Alex Cooper?

  Jessie?

• 1:13:31Speaker 01

  From last, I know, I'm so impulsive. You know me already.

• 1:13:33Alex Cooper?

  No, I'm like, from the, for your first husband to then Jordan, you were like, and it's like, I get it. It's easier to not be alone at first because you're like, it's the comfort. And right now you're like, I don't want to sleep in a hotel room.

• 1:13:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:44Alex Cooper?

  Like alone?

• 1:13:46Speaker 01

  No, I know. Trust me, I know.

• 1:13:47Alex Cooper?

  No jumping into something too quick.

• 1:13:49Speaker 01

  Trust me, I won't. I.

• 1:13:50Alex Cooper?

  Like, you can date.

• 1:13:51Speaker 01

  No, I, I want to date. I want to like, not be tied down. I have my freedom back. So I don't want to like, jump into anything. Like, I, I'm sure I'll have guys I talk to and stuff and like, that's where I need to like, be careful because I could like, jump into something without realizing it, you know? But, um, no, I want to like, go date and have fun and like, meet new people. I don't even know what my type is anymore. Like, who should I date? I don't know.

• 1:14:12Alex Cooper?

  I know. And I think there's something really exciting about, I think the world will be really interested to see you single.

• 1:14:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:19Alex Cooper?

  Not just because it's going to be fun for content of dating, more so is like, what is Jessie like alone? And in her power and in her mind of just like being confident and getting back to that place that like, we probably haven't been able to fully see on TV.

• 1:14:35Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh. Um, Chase from the show, I was talking to him because he's been divorced and he's been helping me through this. And he said to me the other day, he was like, this is what you've accomplished being held back. Like, this is going to be fucking scary to see what you can do. And I was like, you're right. Like, I could do anything.

• 1:14:48Alex Cooper?

  Such a good point.

• 1:14:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:14:49Alex Cooper?

  I was like, I'm a run for president. Hell down. No, literally.

• 1:14:52Speaker 01

  Yes, and but I've accomplished so much doing that. So I'm like excited to spread my wings and just be like, no, I can do whatever I want.

• 1:14:59Alex Cooper?

  No, I'm really excited for you. And I think that even again, to see the internet's reaction being like, bitch, thank God. Like, get out of here. Like, get rid of him. Let's go. Like, the whole season felt like we were just like, so you're getting a divorce or not?

• 1:15:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, everyone's like, leave that man. Oh, the minute the show came out, I woke up to hundreds of comments of like, leave him, leave him. And I just like, didn't tell Jordan. I'm sure he saw it.

• 1:15:19Alex Cooper?

  I'm sure he saw.

• 1:15:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, but no, the fact that this is being celebrated, Miranda said that in the season. She's like, the fact that, oh, also Miranda, like shout out, like my friends, all of them, like, Makayla Macy, Miranda, Leila Taylor, like, they have been there for me so much. So I just want to give them a shout out. But Miranda told me, like, this is going to be celebrated. And it has, and it's like, been the craziest feeling.

• 1:15:38Alex Cooper?

  Even when he's trying to play dirty.

• 1:15:39Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:15:40Alex Cooper?

  Um, okay. Before we go, we have to do a little rapid fire.

• 1:15:44Speaker 01

  All right.

• 1:15:45Alex Cooper?

  From this season.

• 1:15:46Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:15:55Alex Cooper?

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• 1:16:38Alex Cooper?

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• 1:17:13Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh, I actually have no idea. I don't know because we're on a pause now. It probably would have filmed soon. Um, maybe. Do people want it? I guess sound off.

• 1:17:20Alex Cooper?

  Yes. Who in Mom Talk are you closest with right now?

• 1:17:24Speaker 01

  Macy Makila. They're my best friends. I love them.

• 1:17:27Alex Cooper?

  When was the last time you talked to Demi?

• 1:17:29Speaker 01

  I haven't talked to Demi since the season three reunion. You guys saw it.

• 1:17:32Alex Cooper?

  How do you feel about your relationship?

• 1:17:36Speaker 01

  So me and Demi, it's been interesting. I wish her the best. I had a lot of issues with her and I don't think it was a friendship that was meant to last, but I do wish her happiness. And if I have to see her again, I can be cordial, but it's just not meant to be.

• 1:17:50Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, that makes sense. Um, has anyone heard from Ben since last season?

• 1:17:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, stay tuned. Yeah.

• 1:17:59Alex Cooper?

  Okay. Um, who is currently in the group chat? Has anyone left?

• 1:18:03Speaker 01

  Oh gosh, no. So we, okay. Sorry, Taylor, but we do have a group chat with Taylor and then we have one without her because of all this, but not talking badly, but how we were coordinating, how to handle the film pause.

• 1:18:13Alex Cooper?

  Of course.

• 1:18:13Speaker 01

  Um, but no, everyone's in it.

• 1:18:15Alex Cooper?

  Um, what was your opinion on Harry Jowsey coming to meet up with Mom Talk while everyone was in LA?

• 1:18:19Speaker 01

  Okay. Well, first of all, me and Jordan were leaving as he came in. So I was like, and Jordan hates Harry Jowsey because of me cheating. So I was like, Jordan, don't say anything. So I was like, kind of nervous, but so glad we were leaving. Harry doesn't know this, by the way, and we talk a lot. So I'm sorry, Harry.

• 1:18:32Alex Cooper?

  Hey, Harry.

• 1:18:32Speaker 01

  Um, but no, I watched that scene back and I was like, this is the best TV I've ever seen. The fact that he's like, I'm going to cry right now.

• 1:18:39Alex Cooper?

  So overwhelmed.

• 1:18:41Speaker 01

  It was iconic. I loved it.

• 1:18:42Alex Cooper?

  Amazing. How do you feel about how the Unwell event and Macy's book event drama played out?

• 1:18:47Speaker 01

  I felt so bad because I was so excited to do Unwell and we ended up plot twist doing it. So it worked out for the best. And Macy Makila came too. So it was great. Uh, but no, I had no idea because we had talked about me hosting her book event and then Unwell came up. And she had texted me being like, hey, I just need to know which one you're doing. No big deal. So I didn't think it mattered. But then when I heard how sad she was, I was like, Macy Makila been there for me through so much. I think you see me say that. And I was like, Macy, I would never want you to think anything was more important than you. And it was an immediate, like, I'll do this.

• 1:19:17Alex Cooper?

  What terms are Jen and Whitney currently on?

• 1:19:20Speaker 01

  Um, I don't think they're talking at the moment, but I do think that when a season comes out, you all self reflect a little bit. And I think that's happening. And I think they'll probably be able to get back to a good place.

• 1:19:29Alex Cooper?

  What was your reaction when Jen sent her husband in place to speak to Whitney?

• 1:19:35Speaker 01

  It's just never a good move for the man to be the one to like yell at another woman. Like even if Whitney was in the wrong, which I don't necessarily think she was like him going at her just.

• 1:19:44Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. Okay. What do you think is the future of dad talk?

• 1:19:47Speaker 01

  I think it'll be done. I don't think it can continue. I think the world has spoken and they're done.

• 1:19:53Alex Cooper?

  Okay, last question.

• 1:19:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:19:55Alex Cooper?

  Is there anything else that you want to set the record straight on, clear the air on, whether it's with Jordan, whether it's with other people from the cast rumors, whatever it be?

• 1:20:07Speaker 01

  I mean, not specifically anything other than just like, remember that we are real people with real lives and you see this much of our life. It's cut down, it's edited. We film a scene for four hours and you see four minutes, you know? So just remembering that there's always more to the story and give people grace because we're all going through it right now. And just any woman that's been in a situation like mine, like you're, you're worthy and you're enough and you can do it.

• 1:20:29Alex Cooper?

  Okay, I need you to now go find out about the orgies.

• 1:20:32Speaker 01

  I know, literally. I'm gonna hear about it once this drops.

• 1:20:34Alex Cooper?

  I need to call you after.

• 1:20:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:20:37Alex Cooper?

  And you need to like plug us back in and be like, so what's the update on the orgy?

• 1:20:41Speaker 01

  Do I need to hire like a P I?

• 1:20:42Alex Cooper?

  No, literally. Yeah, I'll hire it for you.

• 1:20:44Speaker 01

  I'll let you know.

• 1:20:45Alex Cooper?

  I need.

• 1:20:45Speaker 01

  He's gonna deny it. I already know that.

• 1:20:48Alex Cooper?

  But if it's orgies, there's many people there.

• 1:20:50Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:20:51Alex Cooper?

  And orgy parties?

• 1:20:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, sounds like it.

• 1:20:54Alex Cooper?

  I'll get your new number.

• 1:20:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, we'll figure it out.

• 1:20:56Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, we'll figure it out. Jessie, thank you so much for coming on Call Her Daddy. I think like hearing your story again, I think like your story was such a testament to, yes, there is not, we can't see everything on reality TV. There's so many different storylines. It can't all fit into certain episodes. And so also there's things that aren't. Given information, right? We didn't have the information about Jordan. We didn't know about these escorts. We didn't know about the parties. To get that information now, I think, gives so much more clarity, even not saying that what you did was correct with your affair. But it gives such more backstory to what was going on in your home that none of us were privy to. So I really wish you the best. I wish the whole cast the best. Again, I said this at the beginning, but like, this is heavy shit.

• 1:21:41Alex Cooper?

  And, and some heavier than others and traumatizing. But I think I've met you. I've met Taylor, like I've met Whitney. I've met Connor, like, these are, you know, I, I've had such great interactions with you guys. And I really hope that everyone can figure this out. Yeah. Because I know people love the show, but also like, the show doesn't matter if everyone's mental health isn't okay and safety. So I think we're all just like hoping for the best for all of you. And thank you so much for your time.

• 1:22:09Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:22:10Alex Cooper?

  Thinking of your kids and you during this time.

• 1:22:12Speaker 01

  Thank you. Thank you for having me and letting me finally be free and speak my truth.

• 1:22:15Alex Cooper?

  Girl, we did it.

• 1:22:16Speaker 01

  We did it.

• 1:22:32Alex Cooper?

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• 1:23:16Alex Cooper?

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