#1193 Daniel Kelly On 10 Ways To Increase Your Testosterone

Daniel Kelly is a peak performance coach. In this conversation, we talk about why there is such a pandemic of low testosterone in males, what the right range to target is, and how you can naturally increase your testosterone to have a clearer mind, more energy, and perform better in your job. ======================= Pomp writes a daily letter to over 235,000+ investors about business, technology, and finance. He breaks down complex topics into easy-to-understand language while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at https://pomp.substack.com/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone. This is Anthony Pompliano. Many of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, which is my effort to find the most interesting people in the world and sit with them for hours while I ask questions in an effort to learn. We have no advertisers on this podcast, so it would mean the world to me if you would subscribe to the show on your favorite audio platform, watch episodes on YouTube, and tell your friends and family about the podcast. My goal is to help millions learn from the world's most interesting people. So let's get into today's episode. Daniel Kelly is a peak performance coach. In this conversation, we talk about why there is such a pandemic of low testosterone in males, what the right range to target is,

• 0:43Anthony Pompliano?

  and how you can naturally increase your testosterone if you want to actually have a clearer mind, more energy, and perform better in your job as a founder, investor, or an operator. I always wonder what I can be doing better to perform better in my job, and Daniel's here to help me unpack how testosterone levels, specifically increasing them in a natural way, can help me do that. I really enjoyed this conversation with Daniel, and I hope you guys enjoy it as well. Here's my conversation with Daniel Kelly.

• 1:16Speaker 01

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• 1:38Speaker 02

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 2:01Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, guys. Bang, bang. I've got Daniel here with me, and what I wanted to do was create a masterclass on how to increase your testosterone. But what I thought would be important is, Daniel, first explain to us how many people, especially men, have low testosterone, and what is happening to their body in that low testosterone type state?

• 2:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, thanks for having me, Anthony. Excited to be here. So it's a great question. So according to research, you could say that anywhere from, let's say, fifteen, maybe to twenty percent of the population has low testosterone. But in reality, that depends on the definition of what low testosterone is for most people. And these days, what is happening is that there's a very wide range for what constitutes normal testosterone, and it keeps, every year, keeps getting lower and lower. So what I consider optimal levels of testosterone and what someone considers maybe like normal levels of testosterone are quite different. So I would say that, I would probably say, even if you just look at most men around, like most guys in the population, I would say it's high, has high as fifty percent, even based on the blood test that I've seen guys do. The average person in the, in the population has a very low level of testosterone.

• 3:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Walk us through what is like a low level number wise and what is a high level? So that if people go and get their blood tested, they can kind of understand what that range that they're trying to hit is.

• 3:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely. So low level of testosterone, I mean, when I had, I'm thirty-six now, but when I was twenty-eight, I got a blood test and I had like the testosterone levels of an eighty-year-old man. So I had like two fifty, three hundred. It was like bottom of the basement. But doctors will tell many guys that that's normal testosterone because in the reference range, and we can talk about the reference range and why it's BS, but that's in the reference range. So I would say anywhere from like three hundred to four hundred, four fifty is pretty low testosterone, even five hundred, you could argue it isn't really great. So optimal levels of testosterone, and it depends on the individual and how they feel, right? So because how you feel is more important than a number. As men, we tend to get fixated a little bit on numbers, like how much can I bench press? And what my testosterone level is? But I would say anywhere from like, let's say, seven

• 3:57Speaker 03

  to nine hundred typically, and even up to a thousand for a lot of guys. But for most guys, that's the sweet spot typically.

• 4:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Can you have too much testosterone if you were to go up over a thousand?

• 4:07Speaker 03

  I think if it's natural, I don't see why it's, why it should be a problem. There shouldn't be any downsides really, if it's natural and it's coming from your body.

• 4:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. And so for people who have that, let's call it two fifty to five hundred range, what are they experiencing, right? Are there things that if somebody is watching this or listening to this right now, if they say to themselves, oh, I can check, you know, A, B, and C boxes, I may have low testosterone, let me go get myself checked? What exactly would those feelings be? Or how would they be able to identify this?

• 4:32Speaker 03

  Sure, so I can speak from my own experience and then I'll say what the typical symptoms are. So over a, over a couple of years, I started to experience symptoms like anxiety, uh, depression. I always felt like there was a black cloud following me around. My libido was like hit and miss. Most of the time it was miss. Frankly, I didn't feel like I was making any progress in the gym. I had like stubborn belly fat that I couldn't get rid of. My sleep was quite broken. I didn't feel confident. I felt anxious like all the time. So I would say those, those are the main things. So anxiety, low libido, body fat that you can't lose, lack of focus as well, low energy is another one. So those like these kind of malaise symptoms that a lot of men go through. Uh, low testosterone is often the culprit behind it and it just makes you feel like a shadow of the man that you know you're supposed to be.

• 5:15Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, so you have seven ideas or, or things that people can do to naturally increase their testosterone. The first one is around vitamin D. Explain what's going on with low vitamin D and what people can do to reverse that.

• 5:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, so low vitamin D is like, vitamin D is actually, it's interesting because vitamin D is uh, linked to many chronic diseases, actually, the vitamin D deficiency. And frankly, most people don't get enough. There's a lot of research about vitamin D and how it helps the human body. But there's uh, links between vitamin D and the hormonal production. And uh, most people that I've seen of the hundreds of blood tests I've looked at over the years, most people are vitamin D deficient. And this is especially so if you live in like a cold weather climate, maybe like the East Coast, New York, places like that. Even people that live in places like Miami, Los Angeles, uh, as the, the, because the lifestyles that we live tend not to get enough vitamin D from sunlight. So I think that getting enough vitamin D is, is important if you want proper hormonal function and therefore optimal testosterone levels.

• 6:12Anthony Pompliano?

  Is it as simple as just go outside and do it for 30 minutes a day? Or should people be supplementing, you know, in terms of taking extra vitamin D? Like, what do you see people doing to actually get those vitamin D levels back up?

• 6:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, so a combination of both. I think, I think getting more sunlight in general as a human being is just a good thing because you're going to feel good. And it's also good to help set, manage or maintain your circadian rhythm because your circadian rhythm is dictated to a degree by your sunlight exposure. So if you spend all day under fluorescent lights and in an office, you're not going to get that circuit. A lot of people's circadian rhythms are out of whack, right? So getting sunlight exposure is good just for that anyway. And supplementing with vitamin D, I think is a good thing, but you have to be careful that with a lot of supplements that you take, and we can, this applies to vitamin D or anything. If you don't take a good quality supplement, it's not going to do jack, to be honest. So taking a good quality supplement and also vitamin D is fat soluble. So you need to take it with fat. I found personally that when I took a vitamin D supplement combined with fish oil, it actually quantifiably noticeably

• 7:08Speaker 03

  went up on my blood test. So I would say if you take it with food, then it will help a lot as well.

• 7:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Zinc is the second idea here. What, what exactly is zinc doing? And how can people go ahead and supplement that?

• 7:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, sure. So zinc production is closely linked to, oh, sorry, zinc is closely linked to testosterone production, also sperm production in men. I think it constitutes like over a hundred different biological actions or activities in the human body. So the body thinks a lot of it is quite important. And a lot of people are with anything like anything that we're going to discuss on this list are zinc deficient, simply because we don't get enough of it through our environment, through food these days, because food is so depleted, as you know, Anthony's food is so depleted from the vital nutrients and stuff like that. So I would say that supplementing with zinc as a man, super, super important, both for sperm quality and testosterone production as well.

• 7:58Anthony Pompliano?

  The next idea is sleep. And this one, I think, is a little bit counterintuitive because a lot of folks who, let's say that they have stubborn body fat, or they, you know, have that fogginess in their brain or whatever, they're like, oh, I'm not working hard enough. I'm not doing things while I'm awake that could help to, to clear this out or to lose the body fat, whatever. But actually, if you ever sleep, you know, nine hours in a night because you're just exhausted, you wake up and you feel refreshed. And so what's going on when you're sleeping to actually help boost those testosterone levels?

• 8:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, great question. So it's interesting that you mention that because the default setting for most people is like, especially in our society that's in love with how much you can do and how hard you can work is like, what more can I do? When in reality, like the, there's no amount of exercise can outrun a bad diet and lack of sleep as well. So I always say to people like, I would rather you exercise less and sleep more. And you'll find that it's a lot more effortless to lose weight and have the kind of body and the health that you desire. So from a scientific standpoint, what sleep does is that, well, lack of sleep, rather, it elevates cortisol and also a lack of sleep is associated with lack of discipline, lack of willpower, and also more cravings for carbohydrate-rich foods, which are going to lead to low testosterone, right? So you'll find that after you've had a bad night's sleep, you won't be able to control your cravings and your impulses and stuff like that. And the lack of sleep is also associated

• 9:11Speaker 03

  with low testosterone and obesity. So it's kind of like go hand in hand. And I find that a lot of people that I work with who are overweight, their sleep is typically very, very bad, and hence their testosterone is low as well.

• 9:21Anthony Pompliano?

  When you're working with these people, are there a specific number of hours that you try to get people to, to hit? Or is there some sort of measurement in terms of like deep sleep that you really want them to try to optimize around?

• 9:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I, I try not to obsess specifically over too many things, but I mean, seven or eight hours a night generally for most people is good. But I think the most important thing for people is like getting to sleep before midnight, I think, because that's more in line with your body's natural circadian rhythm, because all sleep is not created equal, right? So if you go to bed, it's, let's say, 1 a.m. or 2 a.m., and you sleep for seven hours, that quality of sleep is not going to be the same as when you go to bed before midnight. You just won't feel the same. You probably experienced that yourself. I know that if I go to bed at 3 a.m. and I wake up at 10, I just won't feel as good as if I could otherwise.

• 10:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, completely agree with that. Low magnesium is another thing that has been linked to low testosterone. What's going on with magnesium?

• 10:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, so magnesium, so very simply, calcium contracts muscle, magnesium relaxes it. And so there is lots of research to indicate that it's not very super, super clear, but that magnesium has a, a direct role in testosterone production. But because it's so important in the body and for so many different reactions in the body, I think it's important to take it. And I think a lot of people get a lot. And the way, the most, the biggest reason I like magnesium is because it helps with relaxation. And frankly, most people aren't relaxed enough these days. And so if you can get more relaxation, that's going to help you to drift off to sleep, and therefore your sleep quality is better. I think the, the impact of that is going to be quite important. So a lot of people do find that if they take magnesium before bed, it helps them relax more and get better quality of sleep.

• 10:53Anthony Pompliano?

  There's been a rise of things like, you know, CBD. I know plenty of people who smoke marijuana. I know plenty of people who take some sort of tea or they may even have other types of sleeping pills or whatever that they're using, all in an effort to get to sleep, sleep longer, et cetera. Does that stuff actually help when it comes to testosterone levels? Or can some of that stuff hurt if somebody's trying to raise their testosterone level?

• 11:19Speaker 03

  Well, speaking like, for example, something like marijuana. Marijuana, I think I always like to go to the root cause of why someone is not sleeping. And so marijuana, for example, is more of a sedative. So it knocks you out. So it just makes you fall asleep straight away. Right? So is that really going to help you get restorative deep REM sleep compared to getting normal sleep? Probably not. And I think that most reasons and the research on it is like, it's kind of like, in some research, it shows that it improves and some research that shows it doesn't necessarily help. But I think all in all, as a lifestyle, like, and getting good quality sleep and having optimal testosterone levels, something like marijuana isn't going to be optimal. CBD oil, potentially. But again, I always want to look at like, instead of like relying on supplement as crutches, I think they should be the icing on the cake as opposed to relying on it to help you get asleep.

• 12:01Speaker 03

  If you're relying on something like that to help you fall asleep, I would like to look at your mindset and what you're thinking about before you go to sleep and why you're so stressed instead of relying on something to help you like, knock you out.

• 12:10Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, that makes sense. Omega three fish oils. I never took fish oil ever in my life and then I started taking it like maybe a year ago. And I think it's working. I don't know, but like now I'm like, I better take this every day. What's going on and am I an idiot and just buying, you know, fake pills? Or is there actually some sort of benefit from this?

• 12:30Speaker 03

  Well, omega three fish oil is like one of the most anti-inflammatory things that you can get. And so if you think about inflammation, it's the underpinning of pretty much all diseases, high levels of inflammation in the body, whether it's heart disease, cancer, diabetes. So the underpinning of everything is inflammation. So anything that you can do to lower inflammation in your body is going to be a net benefit. Obviously, it always comes back to the quality of it again. So with regards to fish oil, ideally, what you want to do is get the fish oil, this actual like this tough stuff on the spoon, even though it tastes like crap, you want to, you want to take it on a spoon because it's flushed with nitrogen. So it's much More pure and where's the stuff that you get on the on the shelves? The capsules usually by the time that you buy it like the it's kind of uh.

• 13:11Speaker 03

  How would I say it's kind of like the quality is lowered significantly. So if you get if you do take omega three fish oil, I take like the The liquid form and like it's super, super beneficial because also when we want to think about hormones and hormonal balance. Hormone your hormonal state is just a downstream effect of what's happening elsewhere in your body. So what do I mean by that? So if your body is tired and beat down and stressed, like your testosterone levels are going to be low. Right? So if we want to think of the root cause, which is like having all our bases covered, then More nine times out of ten, our testosterone levels or or hormones are going to be more balanced and optimized.

• 13:45Anthony Pompliano?

  When you think about gut health, that's another idea that you have in terms of if you improve your gut health, that should help to increase your testosterone levels naturally. What's going on there?

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• 14:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, so uh think of it again, this comes down to inflammation. So I've done some research on this and It's interesting when I went I went on TRT like twenty eight years old and if I knew what I knew now About testosterone production and how gut health is linked to it, I probably wouldn't have gone on it. I don't regret it. And that's another thing that we can talk about perhaps, but Uh what I discovered was that there's certain bacteria in like in foods. If you eat a high sugar diet, for example, you eat the kind of foods that you're not supposed to eat. What these bacteria do is they release things called endotoxins and endotoxins are released from these bacteria and they can actually inhibit Uh your testosterone production and prevent it from happening and kind of like lower your T production. I I think personally

• 15:03Speaker 03

  With the rate of obesity, the amount of obesity that we have in the population today, I think a major, major part mechanism behind that is the poor gut health Of people, which therefore lowers their testosterone levels as well.

• 15:14Anthony Pompliano?

  The last one that you have, which I think is incredibly underrated is stress. And most people, if you ask them, like, do you live a stressful life? They'll tell you no. And then they will go sit in, you know, an hour of traffic. They'll argue with their spouse. They will go to the office and send passive aggressive emails, like, you know, the whole thing. Right? And so, one, are we just way more stressed out than maybe we'd like to think of ourselves? And two, how can you go ahead and use stress or the lack of it to actually increase testosterone levels?

• 15:44Speaker 03

  Great question. So I think from a male perspective, a lot of men are guilty of this, as in they, they don't check in with themselves. And as a man, we like to think that we can, we're supermen and that we can do anything. I'm not stressed. Yeah, bro, but I look at your blood work and like how your health is and everything about it tells me that you're stressed. Right? So if you're not feeling good, you're low energy, you struggle to get out of bed in the morning. Psychologically, you may not be stressed, but physiologically, you're stressed. Right? And so from a, just from a scientific biological standpoint, chronic stress elevates cortisol and high cortisol levels like a wrench, a monkey wrench for like losing fat, anything that you want, which is healthy. Chronic stress is, doesn't help with it. And I think that these days, in reality, a lot of people aren't really getting into

• 16:28Speaker 03

  a form of real relaxation. And what I mean by real relaxation is you getting into kind of that mode where your body's just kind of like chilled and you're breathing properly. Like, we think that we tend to think in our society these days that relaxation is like watching Netflix or like watching a movie or something like that. Right? Whereas in reality, that's a, that's a form of passive relaxation. That's not active relaxation. When I think of active relaxation, really relaxing, it's like doing deep breathing exercises. Because from a scientific standpoint, if you're breathing from, let's say you're breathing from your chest, which most people are probably doing most of the day, that what ends up happening is that you activate a part of the nervous system, which is the fight or flight mode. Right? It's getting your body in like, ready to react, ready to run away from the saber tooth tiger or to have an argument with your boss at work, whatever it is.

• 17:12Speaker 03

  But if you're breathing from your diaphragm and you teach yourself to breathe from your diaphragm, you're activating a part of the nervous system, which is called the rest and digest, where you're actively relaxing and getting into those states. Right? And that has a noticeable effect on things like your Heart rate, your blood pressure and stuff like that. So I think that most people don't check in with themselves and aren't aware of the state and these little things that happen during the day, whether it's like you get cut off in traffic, this person said that, or you look on social media and someone makes you angry or whatever. These things kind of accumulate over the day and we don't realize how much of an effect this has on our physiological state. And that, if you add that to all the other things that are going on, not eating well, sleeping like crap and all these things, it's just another burden that's placed on the body.

• 17:51Speaker 03

  Right? So I think that people would do much better if they had some, a bit more quiet time and time to reflect and time to check in with themselves on a daily basis. It doesn't have to be an hour, even if it's just a few minutes a day where you can just check in with yourself. How am I breathing? How am I feeling? And I think that you will feel a bit more at peace and more relaxed as opposed to like feeling like, you know, stressed out all the time.

• 18:11Anthony Pompliano?

  You mentioned earlier that you took TRT. What were the pros and what were the cons of doing that? And then how much of that experience has helped inform these seven ideas that we've been talking about?

• 18:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, great question. So TLT, I took it when I was twenty eight. So I had a blood, about twenty five years old, I started doing blood tests on a regular basis. I actually listened to a podcast. And on the podcast, my friend Jay Campbell and Mike Sonovich was on there and they were talking about the importance of getting regular blood work. And it really resonated with me because I thought, well, I don't want to have, I want to be like as fit and as healthy as possible until like the day that I die. And I want to be preemptive with my health and I want to, I don't want to be reactive and only take action when something bad going on. And in my mind, I figured like, well, if I take regular blood tests and I'll be able to see the trend and where things are going. And then I can figure out, okay, what kind of steps I need to make to do it. So long story short, I was doing this on a regular basis for a few years and then I took a blood test and one day I had the testosterone levels of an eighty year old man. And I was like, whoa.

• 19:04Speaker 03

  It was like, it was like a gut punch, to be honest. I didn't realize, I, I thought at twenty eight years old, I thought I wasn't drinking, wasn't smoking, wasn't taking drugs, looking after my body. So it was kind of a big, a big shock for me. But it made me, I kind of had a eureka moment because it made me realize all of these symptoms that I'd been experiencing over the past year, I'd kind of normalized because they crept up on me one by one. So I was like struggling with anxiety almost day in, day out. I was like, I was a, I felt like I was a negative person, but in hindsight, what I realized it was the hormones were below testosterone was affecting. And affected my mind in the way that I thought um I didn't have as confidence in myself. I wasn't, I was training really, really hard in the gym. But I wasn't seeing any gains. And I was like, have I tapped out my genetic potential? And then uh like uh and I didn't have libido and like even sex felt like for me at the time, it felt like a chore.

• 19:49Speaker 03

  To be honest with you. And so after doing that, I felt I felt like, well, my lifestyle is pretty good. Uh what else could I really do? I didn't feel like there was anything else that I could do. So I did a lot of research on it and I figured, well, even though it was a big step and it was a big leap for me at that age, I felt like taking testosterone was the best option for me in order to kind of recapture this health and vitality that I so desperately wanted because I felt like a shadow of my former self. And so I took I I took TRT, I was kind of, I was kind of bricking it. As I was like, super scared about taking it because I was like, it was like putting this needle in my body. I'd never injected myself with anything before, right? And I got the prescription from the doctor and I actually put off doing it for two weeks because I was really scared about taking it. And I thought, what am I doing with my life? I'm injecting myself with this substance I've never done it before.

• 20:30Speaker 03

  And I actually had to get my roommate at the time to inject me the first time because I was that scared of doing it, right? And so I injected myself and like within a few weeks of taking it, I felt like my vitality, my confidence and everything had come back again. And I felt like a bit more like my my real self because the the real self who I was, the like the the driven, confident, ambitious person is kind of like disappeared along with my testosterone and my my vitality as well. And so testosterone in many ways gave me back like the life that I knew I was capable of having. And so as a result, I quit my job in investment banking, start my own business, um wrote a book. But uh and so it gave me the things that I knew I was capable of doing, but I just didn't have the possibility because my hormones are just in the gutter, right? And so the pros, I would say, is that of taking testosterone and optimizing my testosterone levels with it.

• 21:15Speaker 03

  It gave me back more energy, my libido came back, um I had a lot more strength and and power in the gym. Uh but the downside is that like I was on a uh on on this for the rest of my life, right? And I had to have regular, had it monitored on a regular basis. Have a prescription that could be taken away at any time, um had to get it regularly monitored by a doctor. Uh if I knew what I knew now about human health, I probably wouldn't have done it, but I don't regret it for all the lessons that it taught me in terms of like how to read. And I I went to work at TRT clinic and I read, I I learned a lot. About blood work and men's health and men's hormones. So for me personally, it was a good experience. But now the reason why I came up with that list is because most men, quite frankly, they don't want to go on a lifelong medication. They don't want to inject themselves. They don't want to go to a doctor.

• 21:56Speaker 03

  And in the United States, what they're going to do now is going to make it even worse. We have to go to a doctor to visit once a month, maybe to get TRT, which is kind of crazy. So I think most men, they try to, my experience of working at a TRT clinic was that I saw so many men, they tried to shortcut the process. They're overweight because they had a bad diet, slept like crap, didn't exercise, and then they think TRT was going to help them. The reason that TRT helped me so much is because I already had a lot of these good habits in place and I already took care of myself. So it was kind of just helped me take off. But a lot of the men that I saw, they thought that they could shortcut the process by taking TRT. So a lot of men would do well by mastering a lot of the fundamentals of human health before they go on TRT. And if they really, really need it, I think it's a very good adjunct to an otherwise healthy life, but it shouldn't be the only thing that you do to fix your health.

• 22:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Were you worried that once you got on it, that you wouldn't be able to get off of it?

• 22:42Speaker 03

  Well, I'm still on it now. So yeah, kind of. Yeah, to be honest, quite, to be honest with you, it's like, yeah, I'm relying on a medication the rest of my life. Could I come off it? Potentially, an experiment. That's not something that I've done up until now or even considered. Like, I'm, I'm happy with where I'm at, but someday I would like to come off it, I think. Yeah.

• 22:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And I always wonder, like, you know, is it one of these irreversible decisions where the downside to coming off is so great? That you're incentivized to stay on it. And so actually, one of the most important decisions is like the onboarding, right? Of like, I think there's a, a large and growing number of males that say, hey, I want to do this or I need to do this. It's the only way that I feel good. But the longer they can hold out and do kind of the, the natural augmentation or the natural raising of the testosterone, the better, because once you get on, it's kind of hard to come off of it.

• 23:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, I couldn't agree more. It's kind of like coming off caffeine, right? It's, it's a nightmare. But being on TRT, I, I agree. It's like a lot of men think that they, they go about in a very like kind of cavalier way. And I think, oh, well, just try it for a few months. It's not something that you try. You go on it and you stay on it, right? So I, I think that a lot of men, they're kind of, they, they do bind to this like kind of gumdrop fantasy about TRT. They will fix all their problems. But like, we, we say in England, you can't put lipstick on a pig, right? So if your lifestyle habits are terrible, TRT isn't going to do a lot for you. But I, I agree with you. That being said, in most, I would say that most men would do well to fix their lifestyle. But like, if you're a man who's getting older and you've otherwise got your stuff together, your life together, I, I think TRT is not a bad adjunct to an otherwise healthy lifestyle, to be honest.

• 24:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, that that makes sense. Where can we send people to find you on the Internet? Whether it's on Twitter or elsewhere, where if people would like to learn more about what you're doing, kind of naturally raising their testosterone levels, or just getting better educated?

• 24:25Speaker 03

  Absolutely. So my website is Daniel Kelly, my full name, dot health. And then if you want to find me on Twitter, my handle is at Daniel Kelly 150. And if you guys want to follow me on Instagram, it's Daniel optimized or one word.

• 24:39Anthony Pompliano?

  Awesome. Daniel, listen, I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. I think that the testosterone level of males is now becoming more of a talking point. And what we're starting to realize is what you started the conversation with, which is most males are being told that their testosterone levels are actually in that reference range, but it's much lower than it should be or could be. And many people may ask, why are you having someone talk about testosterone levels? You talk about business and investing and you know Bitcoin and all this stuff. But one of the things that I think I've realized is in order to have mental clarity, in order to have the energy to be successful in business or investing, or whatever kind of your chosen profession is, you have to have a optimized body. And so things like sleep, like the supplementation that we've been talking about, about, you know,

• 25:23Anthony Pompliano?

  doing many of the kind of taking care of yourself type actions. The more you can do that, the higher testosterone levels, the better that you actually will perform in those job functions. And so I appreciate you taking the time to kind of share that knowledge with folks. And if anyone has not yet, I suggest they go to follow you on the Internet or check out your website. And then we'll definitely do this again in the future.

• 25:41Speaker 03

  Thank you so much for having me, Anthony. I couldn't agree more. So many entrepreneurs, business owners, they they look at like the how they can generate more revenue, how they can improve their business in many, many ways, but they fail to realize that the number one ROI they can have in their businesses on themselves and on their own health, right? Like you said, mental clarity, more energy, and therefore that's going to drive business. So I think that when you if you realize that early on, it's going to have a massive, massive impact on your life and your quality of life.

• 26:05Anthony Pompliano?

  I could definitely agree on that front for sure. All right. Well, thank you so much. We'll do it again in the future.

• 26:11Speaker 03

  Thanks, man. Appreciate you.