I talk to Ben about creating luck, his barbell method, plus 6 half-baked business ideas

Want to scale? Get 700 side hustle prompts: https://clickhubspot.com/blv Episode 719: Shaan Puri ( https://x.com/ShaanVP ) talks to his business partner Ben Levy about creating luck, his barbell method for building relationships and 6 half-baked business ideas. Apply to join Club LTV - https://tinyurl.com/3y478hm2 — Show Notes: (0:00) Intro (4:01) Your first believer (6:11) The K Academy (9:38) Ben as a product (17:53) Measuring luck (23:43) Barbell method (30:24) Idea: Court side seats (33:44) Idea: Lunch Bounty (36:51) Idea: Birkins for everyone (45:31) Idea: Survivor for post-economic people (50:50) Idea: Cool carpel tunnel brand (53:42) Idea: Coach K in a box — Check Out Shaan's Stuff: • Shaan's weekly email - https://www.shaanpuri.com • Visit https://www.somewhere.com/mfm to hire worldwide talent like Shaan and get $500 off for being an MFM listener. Hire developers, assistants, marketing pros, sales teams and more for 80% less than US equivalents. • Mercury - Need a bank for your company? Go check out Mercury (mercury.com). Shaan uses it for all of his companies! Mercury is a financial technology company, not an FDIC-insured bank. Banking services provided by Choice Financial Group, Column, N. A., and Evolve Bank & Trust, Members FDIC — Check Out Sam's Stuff: • Hampton - https://www.joinhampton.com/ • Ideation Bootcamp - https://www.ideationbootcamp.co/ • Copy That - https://copythat.com • Hampton Wealth Survey - https://joinhampton.com/wealth • Sam’s List - http://samslist.co/ My First Million is a HubSpot Original Podcast // Brought to you by HubSpot Media // Production by Arie Desormeaux // Editing by Ezra Bakker Trupiano

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Shaan Puri?

  All right, we got Ben here and this is the real deal, Ben. This is Ben, the business partner. If you listen to every single episode of this podcast, you hear me two hours a week. I probably talk to Ben 20 hours a week.

• 0:09Ben Levy?

  Yeah, pretty much. I feel like you have 100 times more great stuff that never makes it anywhere. It just goes into our text thread and dies immediately. We gotta bring it out.

• 0:29Shaan Puri?

  Ben, I was counting before we started this episode. So together, we've been working together for five years now. We've created nine different things. I don't know if you've seen this. We've created nine different projects that have made more than a million dollars each. So the very first thing we did together is the All Access Pass, which was a pretty batshit crazy idea where I was like, what if listeners of the pod could actually see what I'm doing every day to build a business? And I basically was like, for three months, I'm 90 days, I'm going to send an email every day just showing you what I worked on each of those days while I tried to do X thing. Whatever the thing I was gonna try to do was like, one of them was like start an econ brand. One of them was raise a fund. One of them was start a course, whatever. And so that one did over a million dollars.

• 1:15Ben Levy?

  The craziest part about that one is you were basically like, hey dude, I just met you or we barely worked together. Want to do a 90 day sprint where we just figure out what we're gonna do and then tell everyone in the world what we're doing? But we've never, we basically never worked together before then.

• 1:27Shaan Puri?

  We've never worked together. Also, we have like the, what's the opposite of a romantic comedy first meeting? You know, like in a romantic comedy, they're like walking down the street, then they're like bump into each other and then the papers fall on the ground and they scoop them up. They look, they make eye contact and they're whatever. They're like, it's a thing. Ours was completely different. You, I think you, you were just a listener to the podcast and I was testing out an idea that was like these CEO mastermind groups. So I basically, I said, hey, I need five or six people who have a business that does over a million dollars a year. Come join this group, which basically became Hampton, by the way. Sam, Sam ended up turning that into a real business called Hampton. I did one group and you were in it. And the funny thing was you had a business that was doing over a million dollars a year. And Ben, how many, how many customers did you have in that business?

• 2:13Ben Levy?

  One, one customer.

• 2:15Shaan Puri?

  Ben had a business with a single customer that paid him a million dollars a year. Can you say, it's over now, you can say who it is?

• 2:21Ben Levy?

  Yeah, it was Anheuser-Busch at the time, Budweiser.

• 2:24Shaan Puri?

  So Ben is basically like, yeah, my customer is Budweiser. There are no other customers. They pay me a million dollars a year to do this like very simple thing where you were like, I don't know, you were like building their SMS list for them or something like that. But you seemed bored out of your mind. And also, like, you seemed bored out of your mind and I was trying to do new things and I was like, hey, I like this guy. He's got a good vibe. You want to try some stuff with me? Is that, is that the summary of, of how it went down for you?

• 2:51Ben Levy?

  Pretty much. I mean, the only other thing is like peak COVID. I specifically remember like it was those masterminds and watching the Jordan doc. And those are the highlights of the month, basically.

• 3:01Shaan Puri?

  Why did you say yes? Cause you had a business that was doing a million dollars a year. I was not offering you more money than that. Why did you say yes to the, to the offer, by the way? I think there's something, you have good instincts and I think there's, I've never asked you this, but why did you even say yes to begin with?

• 3:14Ben Levy?

  I mean, at the time I felt like I'd tried everything to figure out how to grow that business and I just had zero answers. I'd been like, you know, it had been a year and it was like, I've tried literally everything I can think of. Not one thing is working. Like this is kind of going nowhere. I'm running, I'm hitting on the wall every time. That was one. And then two, you know, I thought you had a ton of juice. And I feel like I text you this all the time, which is TMJ. I just feel like you have too much juice, which I felt then, I feel now, which is like, you know, this guy's a beast. This guy is like, you know, the next Joe Rogan.

• 3:45Shaan Puri?

  Is it TMJ like the thing where your jaw hurts? It's like when you have like.

• 3:49Ben Levy?

  Too much juice to me.

• 3:50Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, that's what I have. I've, I got, I got a bad case of TMJ, too much juice.

• 3:54Ben Levy?

  You know, I just had belief in you and I was like, I'm going to take a bet. And also I had felt like I just ran against the, you know, I'd hit the wall. A hundred times in a row trying to grow that thing and it had gone nowhere.

• 4:05Shaan Puri?

  Well, I do appreciate that. You, you do have a shit ton of belief in me, which is cool. We actually have this phrase we call, what do we call it? Like your first believer? Which is basically everybody I know who's successful in life, at some point had somebody who irrationally believed in them. Right? Bill Simmons calls it the irrational confidence guy. I think there's that for the entrepreneur, for entrepreneurs too, which is before you've proven anything, before you've actually done it. And honestly, when you still kind of suck. Somebody is just like, no, I believe, I'm in blank check belief in you. Like for me, that was this guy, Michael Birch initially when I was 23, 24 years old and he kind of like recruited me for a job I wasn't really qualified for. And then he gave me, he named me CEO. He gave me his job as CEO. I was the youngest person in the company.

• 4:50Shaan Puri?

  And that was irrational. Like there was really no proof, no logic, no nothing. But like, I will never forget that. And then we've actually taken that where if we believe in somebody, we don't believe it in private. We go tell them, we're like, and me and you will text them and be like, dude, like this is guy Billy Oppenheimer, who I think, who I think we both are big believers in. And we'll just text Billy and be like, I'm buying all the Billy Oppenheimer stock on the market right now. Like I'm cornering the Billy Oppenheimer, you know, market right now. I'm trying to build a huge position here because I am a believer in you and your talents. Have you seen that? And who else are we kind of first believers in? Do you know?

• 5:26Ben Levy?

  Yeah, I think George Mack says that you were one of the big, one of the first believers in telling him he should stop doing an agency. He should just go all in on betting on himself. Eshon, your old intern.

• 5:38Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, I was a first believer in him for sure. Yeah, he was like probably 18 years old to start working with him. Uh, but I think everybody needs that. And if, and whoever was that for you, you should send him a note today and just be like, by the way, thank you for that. That was huge for me. And you did, you had no reason to believe in me, but you did. But I think, I think more people need to do that. It's like an angel investor. But before money, you need at least belief that you can do something. Right? Like it's actually more important as a starting ingredient than, than cash initially. And I think people, more people need to have that like belief angel investor.

• 6:08Ben Levy?

  You need, you need someone to give you minutes in the game. You know, I just want to get, give me two minutes. Don't leave me on the bench.

• 6:13Shaan Puri?

  A coach that puts you on the floor. Dude, you were just, uh, speaking of basketball, you were just at this fantasy camp thing. Can you explain what this was? Like two weeks, two weeks ago, Ben goes, hey, I'm going to be offline for a week. I'm going to the Duke basketball fantasy camp, Coach, the Kaya Academy. Can you explain what this is? Cause I think this is kind of amazing.

• 6:34Ben Levy?

  Yeah, so two weeks ago, I basically decided to go to K Academy, which is Coach K. Obviously, you know who he is, Sean, famous Duke coach. Every year, he hosts a basketball camp for people that are 35 and older. Spoiler alert, I just turned 35 like six months ago. So the first time I could go, I immediately decided to go. I took my dad with me. So it was me and my dad. We haven't hung out for five days in a row in years without kids. So we go to, we go to North Carolina and it's unbelievable.

• 7:04Shaan Puri?

  It's basically rich dude fantasy camp. It's like summer camp for, for rich dudes, right?

• 7:10Ben Levy?

  Yeah, it's basically rich dudes that want to go back to high school where they were on the basketball team and they're competing like their lives depend on it. And every other hour, someone's tearing their ACL.

• 7:20Shaan Puri?

  That's an amazing pitch because I would, I would happily pay 10 grand for that right now. If you could take me back to when I was on my high school basketball team, that's like the happiest days of my life.

• 7:29Ben Levy?

  Yeah, that's what I thought. And then immediately when I got there in the first game, I got way less minutes than I thought. And my dad was like cussing under his breath that I should have got more minutes. I was like, I don't know, I don't know that I actually want to go back to high school again, where I literally had the same exact experience. But so we, so we get there and it's 150 people and everyone there, like one for me, actually.

• 7:52Shaan Puri?

  Wait, so do the math on that. 150 people, what is the price of this thing?

• 7:55Ben Levy?

  It's $13,000.

• 7:58Shaan Puri?

  All right, so it's a $2 million, $2 million kind of five day camp basically for them revenue wise.

• 8:03Ben Levy?

  Yeah, $2 million, but I think everyone there like basically becomes a part of their fund and helps support Duke Athletics. So it's great for that. It's a great top of funnel for key people for Duke Athletics.

• 8:15Shaan Puri?

  For becoming a booster or an alumni, a sort of like a supporter of the program.

• 8:19Ben Levy?

  Yeah, but what I wanted to do, when I went there, I was like, yeah, I love basketball. It's going to be awesome, but I just want to meet every single person that's here. Because if you, if you're spending 13 grand to hoop for five days, you're probably rich and interesting.

• 8:31Shaan Puri?

  Or just rich, maybe, and not that interesting. That's also a possibility. We should explain this, like I always say, we're business partners. What does that actually mean? What do you actually do?

• 8:41Ben Levy?

  I would, I just got, you know, the way I tell people, which you probably tell people differently is like three things I say. You know, basically just try to make, try to make whatever, try to make the main mission happen. And the main mission changes very often, which is everything from make great content to make money, to just have fun. And then I add the last part, which is like, well, also not working that hard. You know, like, I think I work hard, but I think in general, like, want to have a good time and want to also be there for my friends and family. And I'd say the fifth part is, I probably spend 20% of my time playing basketball. So I added that in last year, which is, you know, I want to play, I want to spend 20% of my time playing basketball.

• 9:22Ben Levy?

  So I spent a lot of time just trying to find interesting things that we can attack that may support the main mission. So whether that be buying a company, an investment, some interesting content ideas, meeting people.

• 9:36Shaan Puri?

  So, so here, here's some examples. One of them was, let's raise a fund, right? This was back in 2021, maybe 2020. We decided, hey, we want to raise a fund to invest in startups. We have all this deal flow. Let's do this. And so that became the main mission for like a three month period. And we raised, I think, something like 20 million bucks to invest into startups. Okay, great. Then we did Grow My Ecom Store. I think at the time you joined, maybe my econ brand was doing 5 million a year in revenue. And then now it does 25 million or 30 million in revenue. And so for, for 12 months, like, that was the mission. And so the funny thing is, is we'll just like pick a main mission. Roughly every, I would say, three to six months, we pick a main mission.

• 10:21Shaan Puri?

  The longest we've done is probably a year or two. And we just do whatever it takes to figure that out. So for example, when we were doing the econ thing, neither you nor I knew anything about ecommerce. And one of the things Ben does that's brilliant is, he's basically very, very good at getting insights from the audience. And so what you did was you created this group called Club LTV. And Club LTV was basically, you put out a call, you go, if you own an ecommerce brand that does more than 5 million in revenue, right? We were at 5 million, you were like, if it does more than 5 million in revenue, come hang out in this thing. I'm not selling you anything. It's free to join, but you got to be legit. You got to be the owner and you have to do over 5 million in revenue. And we're just going to hang out every other Friday.

• 11:05Shaan Puri?

  I'm gonna host it. It's like speed dating. You're gonna meet a bunch of other e-comm founders. We're gonna share what's working in our businesses. And then every week, one guy's gonna stand up and say like, oh, here's what I'm doing with TikTok. Here's what I'm doing with email marketing. And you're gonna learn something that's gonna instantly make, if you just implemented it, it'll make you more money. That was the, the general idea. And you got like, I don't know, 150 e-comm business owners in there in like, you know, the first month. And then suddenly we were just getting, whatever problem we had, somebody in that group had already had that problem and could answer it. And so it just accelerated our business learning so fast from doing that. And that's kind of where I figured out this model of like, I create the content, I attract interesting people.

• 11:47Shaan Puri?

  But I'm kind of an introvert. I just like being alone. Like, I like doing stuff like this podcast, just me in my bedroom. Like, I don't really like going out and doing meetups or hangouts or doing calls. Ben loves that shit. And so Ben would go meet people, talk to them, see what they're up to, find a way to help them, introduce them to people, make connections, be useful to them. And in doing so, they would, you know, every, one out of every 20 of those people would do something that's useful to us. Maybe we invest in their company, maybe they teach us something, whatever it is. That's an example of, of how it's worked in the past.

• 12:17Ben Levy?

  Yeah, and I think the two things I think about a lot are like, you know, I wanna be useful. Like, you know, a lot of this is I don't wanna take from people. It's like, hey, I wanna help you. And like, when and if we ever need anything, I know they'll take my call, but it's not really about that. Just like, hey, I, I talk to a lot of people. I might know something that you might wanna know. I might know someone you should know. And then two, I think like, I think this is a Warren Buffett thing, which is like, you can't connect the dots looking forward.

• 12:42Shaan Puri?

  Steve Jobs.

• 12:43Ben Levy?

  Steve Jobs, alright. A lot of this is, you know, a lot of it is creating serendipity and luck. And, you know, I just never know what's gonna connect, you know, something that someone might've said a year ago, might randomly hit that I never thought of for the past year.

• 12:57Shaan Puri?

  Well, we should explain, uh, because people don't know how we do this. So first explain who this guy, uh, I think his name is Nick Dyo or Nick Deo. Explain who that guy is, and then how he kind of inspired us to do, to do stuff on our side.

• 13:10Ben Levy?

  Yeah, so Nick DiO, let's just call him Nick DiO. I like that better than Dio. But essentially, he's Gary Vee's relationship guy, I think is the way I would say it. So Gary Vee, obviously, has tons of access, owns a huge agency, but he can only be so many places at once. So he's basically built this guy Nick, and what he does is he manages all of Gary's core relationships. So from what I've heard, he basically will host a dinner every night. Anyone that wants to meet Gary, he connects them. He's the main guy, that's the face of Gary. He's front forward, he collects everything, he helps people.

• 13:44Shaan Puri?

  And sometimes, and I think a lot of times, Gary's not even there. So it'll be like, Gary really likes this person, or these people, or he wants to get to know certain people. Nick will go and host an event, or take them on a trip, or hang out with them, almost like on behalf of Gary. Right? Like Gary's not even there some percentage of the time, I think, I think a large percentage of the time.

• 14:04Ben Levy?

  I think like 99% of the time Gary's not there. I think it's literally Nick 99%.

• 14:08Shaan Puri?

  But the guy knows, he's just like, yeah, Gary thinks what you're doing is dope. We just want to get to know you. If we can ever be helpful, let us know. I heard this, and this was like, in sports, there was this thing that came out several years ago that was like, LeBron James spends a million dollars a year on his body, like on just treatments, you know, trainers, food, all of it. Like, a million dollars a year just fine tuning his body. And other athletes heard that, and they were like, shit dude, I'm not doing it. Like, I just kind of go to the gym, or like, I just use the Teams guy, I don't do that. But it makes total sense. Like, if you're an athlete, your body is your business. Like, it makes sense to spend money maintaining and improving your body.

• 14:48Shaan Puri?

  So LeBron did that, and I've always had this question, which is like, what's my version of spending a million dollars a year on my body? Right? And so when I heard that Gary Vee has this guy Nick, I was like, oh, that makes perfect sense. Gary is like, building a magnet to attract people who like what he's all about, right? That's his content that he's putting out there. But he can't, and maybe he doesn't even want to, just constantly be meeting people that he's attracting, because it's too much. The audience is too big. So of course, it sounds crazy to be like, he hired a guy that just hangs out with people in his orbit. And I was like, yeah, that sounds a little weird, but actually, that's obvious and logical, and we should totally do that. And I didn't hire you in that way, that's not what, but you do, you would do, end up doing that because you're extroverted.

• 15:32Shaan Puri?

  You actually like, you get a lot of energy from texting people, talking to people, like... Like today, how many people or like in the last 24 hours, how many people have you texted?

• 15:43Ben Levy?

  I mean, you know, probably like 70. It's a ton.

• 15:48Shaan Puri?

  Like if I look on my phone right now, how many people do I actually text on a day to day basis? There's my wife, there's the lady who we're getting our mortgage loan from. My dad for Father's Day. There's like seven people max that like I'm talking to in a given day. And even that, I'm pretty bad at replying. Whereas you just love doing it and you do it all the time. In fact, you had this like little phrase, you're like, I was like, you know, what's the secret? And you're like, I reply, bro. Most people just don't reply. I reply. Ben, he replies. That's what he does. And you also check in with people and see like what they're up to and what, how it's going. You congratulate people all the time on what they do. You have these like little things that just kind of keep people in orbit.

• 16:29Shaan Puri?

  So that's one thing is, is learning from that. The other is we took luck and we actually made it like a business metric that you measure. Could you explain the luck system and how we do that?

• 16:42Ben Levy?

  Yeah. So the core idea I think was basically, okay, if we're going to spend a ton of time creating luck, that's going to, you know, surface in a ton of ways. Maybe it's going to surface in content. Maybe it's going to surface in an investment. Maybe it's going to surface in a future business. You gotta track it, you know, I, it's really easy basically to say, oh, I'm every day I'm gaining weight, but I never get on the scale because I just don't want to look at it. And then I just gained 10 pounds. Like it happens so fast, but if I'm on the scale every day, I'd never get any weight. And what I mean by that is I basically decided, okay, I want to track what I'm actually doing. And what I mean, I want to track what I'm actually doing. So every day I want to say, okay, here's like the five or six things I did today that I think will create some luck.

• 17:24Ben Levy?

  And then I want to actually see, did anything ever hit in any way, um, looking back? So an example might be, okay, if I pull up my spreadsheet, uh, I found this tweet that then became a great piece of content for MFM. So, you know, another example might be, okay, we ended up getting into this deal. That was because I chased this guy pretty aggressively to get into this round and then we wired him.

• 17:48Shaan Puri?

  So like, you know, an example would be,

• 17:52Shaan Puri?

  You know, one thing you're great about is you're like happy for other people. I think a lot of people in the entrepreneurial game get bitter as other people become successful. You see that, oh, they hit this revenue and your actual reaction is either like, fuck, you know, we're way less or, or, or, you know, whatever, that's not going to last. I think there's a lot of that bitterness people don't really say out loud, but in general, I think that's a, a pretty common reaction for people. Whereas I've, I've been around you a bunch. You actually have the opposite. If something awesome happens for people, you literally are like, oh, that's awesome. Congrats. And so you'll do something like, somebody hits a milestone and you'll send them a cake with like the number on it. And, um, and so you do these like random things that seem to be like, I don't know, unproductive in nature.

• 18:35Shaan Puri?

  Like you, you took 15 minutes to like, design a cake to send this guy. But then that guy calls you thanking you and then you catch up with him and he tells you about this thing that he's doing and you realize like, oh, for our basketball event, I didn't realize this guy actually knows the owner of that team. We could ask him for an intro and like, you create luck through just a bunch of these different activities that you're doing. Other simple examples would be like, you are pretty willing to just refer people to like, you find out that somebody's looking for X, you'll take an hour and go actually like hunt down a referral for them and go find them, the, the agency they're looking for, the person they're looking for and like make the connection. You'll do it same day for that person. It doesn't seem in the moment like there's anything to gain in that for us, but it builds

• 19:20Shaan Puri?

  so much goodwill that of course, like there's business karma, it comes back around. And so what we did was we looked at, all right, in the last two years, what are all the best things that have happened? And then if you've kind of traced the, the 23 and me, the ancestry.com, like what led to that? So we have this one business that's just going gangbusters right now. It's, uh, we haven't announced it yet, but like, you know, it's, we just crossed 10 million in, in ARR profitably bootstrapped in like less than, you know, 18 months. And that business is amazing. But if we look at, well, where did, how did we get the key customers for that? Where did we get the intro for that? Where did we hire that key talent for that? Each one of those came from basically Ben doing random shit.

• 20:02Shaan Puri?

  So we decided the Peter Drucker mantra, what gets measured gets managed. Let's actually treat luck like something you can actually manage. Could you measure it? If you could measure it, would you, would that encourage you to do more of it? If you did more of it, would more good things happen? And the answer so far for us has been yes. Even though this is kind of a nerdy thing, this is like when, when Sam talks about how him and Sarah do off sites and have like OKRs for their relationship. And you're like, ah dude, you're kind of killing the romance here. It's like, most people treat luck the same way where it's like, dude, just let it happen. And we actually treat like creating luck as a skill. Like luck is a thing you can actually influence how much of it you're going to have in your life. And, and then we, we kind of celebrate you doing things that generate more and more luck for us.

• 20:46Ben Levy?

  I also think it makes you just think about the things I'm learning or seeing. Cause it's like, oh, if I write it down, if I just keep it in my head, one, you never hear it. It never goes anywhere. It's pretty easy for me to forget, but if I write it down, it's like, oh, that actually was interesting. Or this story someone told me would actually make sense to tell on the podcast or we should follow up on that. So I think that helps a ton too.

• 21:07Shaan Puri?

  It also changes your decision making. Like sometimes you'll be like, ah, should I go do this? Like you, you went and flew out and hung with Jesse Itzler for like a couple of days. There was really no like, we weren't trying to do a deal with him. We weren't trying to sell him on anything. There's no, there's no agenda. He's awesome. We thought he was awesome. He was like, hey, you should come hang. And you were like, you know, people just say that as like a figure of speech, like, oh yeah, if you're ever in town, hit me up. Whereas we were like, well, I think doing that will generate some good, good things. Good, that increases our luck quotient. If you do that versus if you just sit at home for the next two days. So Ben books a flight, goes, hangs out with them for two days.

• 21:44Shaan Puri?

  Sure enough, while you're there, the conversation leads to different, like, you know, different good things, different either learnings, insights, opportunities, whatever it may be. And I don't think we would maybe have the, the green light to, to shoot our shot as we do now, now that we actually like, made it one of our like, kind of goals is to create more luck. And, and actually our goal for the year is Ben's got to create a hundred lucky breaks. And so he keeps track of the hundred lucky things that go our way. And in order to do that, you gotta do like 500 or 700. Just interesting things that might generate those 100 lucky breaks.

• 22:20Ben Levy?

  Yeah, we'll say Jesse Isler is a proud member of the TMJ crew, too much juice. So if you've got too much juice, you know, you get a round trip flight from me immediately. If you're in that class.

• 22:31Shaan Puri?

  Explain your barbell thing because I like this. I think more people should do this.

• 22:36Ben Levy?

  The way I operate is basically two things. Either I'm constantly, I mean, you know, my phone is just constantly texting people with things I see. So it's either, okay, we're constantly talking via text or I'm texting you.

• 22:47Shaan Puri?

  But in a very lightweight way, right? Like it's very light communication. You're not sitting on a 40 minute zoom call with them.

• 22:54Ben Levy?

  Yeah, and I do say I do go by the I reply thing, although since I told you that and since I think you said on the podcast, every time I don't reply, I feel very guilty because you know, sometimes I just, sometimes I forget, or sometimes it's just hard when you, you know, when you have a lot of texts. And then, and then, you know, and then the barbell is just go spend more time in person with people. So I haven't done it as much as I want to, but I, I think longer hangs. I think this is also a David Senna idea, which is you do longer hangs.

• 23:22Shaan Puri?

  I think Coogan was the one who told, John Coogan from Technology Brother, TBPN. He was the one who told us this idea, or he said it out loud, at least to me. And it was like, the middle zone is death. It's death by a thousand zoom calls. So like a 40 minute zoom call or 45 minute zoom call is basically the worst of both worlds. It's like, kind of takes a lot of energy to do it, but you don't really build that much of a bond or relationship in it. You don't even get into much depth. You would rather be like, just quick funny memes and texts or sending tweets to people just to kind of like, very lightweight, takes you 10 seconds. Or go hang out with them for, you know, five hours. Just go fly to them and hang out with them for five hours or go drive up there and go, go, go grab lunch,

• 24:06Shaan Puri?

  go for a walk and then, you know, have a coffee. And like, if you do that, you actually get like way more of a, of a connection and a bond and more insight. More, it's a different type of hang. And it's actually, it sounds like it's, you know, it's the equivalent of 10 zoom calls. But no, it's like the equivalent of like 200 zoom calls when you do it, right? And so you want to spend your time on either end of the, the barbell, the lightweight side, or like go really in depth. There's a good example of this, by the way, Chris Saka used to do this. I don't know if you know this story, but he, he was an angel investor. And he moved out of San Francisco, which at the time made no sense. It's like all the angel investors in San Francisco, that's where all the startups were. But he goes, you know what, if I'm in San Francisco, I'm just constantly playing defense. I'm just taking

• 24:48Shaan Puri?

  all these random coffee meetings and kind of feels very surface level. It's just does, it's not differentiated. So he moves to Truckee, which is near Lake Tahoe. He buys a cabin and he gets a second cabin, like a guest house right next to his cabin. And what he did was he would, if he found somebody who was interesting, he would like make a bigger effort. He would invite them to come to stay for a weekend in his cabin and let's hang out. And founders are like, oh, that's cool. I'll go to Lake Tahoe. That like, that sounds like fun. And then he would spend like 48 hours with this person. They're in the hot tub together. They're skiing together. They're talking, they're drinking, they're eating, they're, they're cleaning up, they're doing all this different stuff. And by the end of that, like, they actually feel like, like good friends, not like you would get at a coffee meeting. Plus, he would really

• 25:30Shaan Puri?

  understand their business. And this is how he got into the Uber deal and how he got into the Instagram deal, was he invited the founder of Uber and the founder of Instagram to come hang out for the weekend. And it was in that weekend where they kind of like solidified the bond. He understood the business in depth. He knew really how good this founder was and what they were really made of, which you couldn't get in a 20, 30 minute coffee meeting. And he knew to back up the truck and invest.

• 25:52Ben Levy?

  And I think it's also cool to just go hang out with people and see how they live. I think we've talked about this a lot. It's like, you know, you go see how someone like Monish Pabri lives when we go to his house and hang out with him. And you can taste their lifestyles and decide whether or not it's actually interesting.

• 26:07Shaan Puri?

  Right. By the way, I'm looking at the luck sheet right now. This is a great example. Your mission was to grow MFM at one point. So you were spending a couple of months trying to grow my first million. And you were like, dude, you guys don't bring enough guests on. The guest episodes do well. You, but you and Sam are pretty lazy. You don't like to reach out to guests. And so you're just like, you know, it doesn't really happen. So you went back, you looked at the archive and you were like, all right, let me find somebody who was awesome on the pod before, bring them back. And so you found that Jesse Itzler was on a year or two ago. You tried to get him on, he didn't reply. He didn't reply again. And then you saw that he had like, I don't know, his, his calendar or his book was coming out. And you basically bought a hundred of them proactively. And you were like, hey, I think your calendar is awesome.

• 26:52Shaan Puri?

  I bought a hundred of these and I'm going to give them away on my first million. You know, just keep doing what you're, you know, keep doing what you're doing. This is great. He replies to that because he's like, oh dude, somebody just came and bought a hundred of my product because they think it's awesome. Like, thank you. You know, appreciate that. And by the way, yeah, like, I'm happy to come on again. And then he comes on the podcast and it reignited maybe a relationship that was kind of dormant. And you've done that a bunch where you'll like, somebody comes out with a product, you buy it, you hype it up, you celebrate it, and then that makes them feel good and that leads to like, good things. But all this stuff is like, pretty unpredictable when you're doing it, but it works out.

• 27:25Ben Levy?

  Yeah, I think like, you know, it is important to say, none of this is transactional. You know, I kind of do this again. Goal is to be useful. I want to help people. Again, I think we all win together. Like, this is not a zero sum game. You know, we help people, they help us, et cetera. That's how it goes.

• 27:42Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. And also, you know, for every one thing I'm saying, that led to this. There's 11 other things that didn't lead to anything and we're totally fond of that. It was just fun to do, it was nice to do, so we did it. You know, that's all. There was no expectation of something happening, except for you just know like, hey, if I do a bunch of great stuff with great people, like, good things are going to come out of that.

• 28:02Shaan Puri?

  So that's the, that's the luck thing. You sent this doc with other stuff on it. I want to, let's talk about some of these other things.

• 28:08Ben Levy?

  All right, I know normally, basically, you always do business ideas, but I feel like you and I talk business non-stop. It's just constantly business ideas. So I made a list of things that I wish existed. Basically, stuff I want to be customer number one of, that I want to talk to you about and show you and see what you think.

• 28:26Shaan Puri?

  So things that, things that don't exist today, but you kind of wish, you low-key wish existed.

• 28:31Ben Levy?

  Yeah, and you know I'm an early adopter, so someone, someone makes these, I'm gonna buy them.

• 28:36Shaan Puri?

  Ben tries weird stuff. He'll be like, oh, I'm eating this peanut butter that's made out of caramel only. And I'm like, what? He'll buy any product that's like, weird, but there's a chance it's amazing. Most likely sucks, but there's a chance it's amazing. So I'm guessing these ideas are going to be like that. Probably weird, probably suck, but there's a chance it'd be amazing. Am I right on that?

• 28:58Ben Levy?

  Yeah, and one out of 10 hits and you know, hey, I'm glad I tried 10 random peanut butter protein things, you know?

• 29:04Shaan Puri?

  All right, so this is Ben's random wish list. Let's go.

• 29:07Ben Levy?

  So I've got, I've got three ideas. I've got 10 ideas, but the first one I'll give you is courtside seats. So whenever, obviously you know what courtside seats are, whenever you're watching an NBA game, they always show, you know, at the Knicks games, they show Timothy Chalamet every time going nuts with Kylie Jenner. But I just think there's way more to do around courtside seats. Let me give you three, I have three courtside seat spinoff ideas. So one,

• 29:31Shaan Puri?

  Okay.

• 29:32Ben Levy?

  I want to make a YouTube channel where basically all you do is buy courtside seats and you interview someone courtside every game. Goal is figure out what do they do? How much money do they make? How do they make their money? And all you do, all you have to do is buy a courtside seat and you immediately can get someone every single game. What do you think?

• 29:50Shaan Puri?

  Okay, so the upside is you get to be courtside. So worst case scenario, your YouTube channel fails, but you got to go courtside at a bunch of games. It does use that, that thing that seems to work, which is on TikTok, people go and like stop like a rich person in their car. They're like, hey, just nice car, man. I just want to ask, you know, what do you do? And then they say something and it creates like, you know, this one minute thing that tends to, tends to go viral or people like that stuff. So you're basically piggybacking off of that. But the investment here is pretty substantial, right? Like, how much is, how much are courtside seats anyways? Like, how much would this even cost to do? Forty, there's forty, what, forty court, forty home games a year? So what are you spending to do this?

• 30:27Ben Levy?

  It probably depends where you're doing it. I think if you're doing it in Orlando, you're probably spending a hundred grand. If you're doing it in New York, you're probably spending 400 grand, 500 grand.

• 30:36Shaan Puri?

  Which you could probably go get like a FanDuel or SeatGeek or somebody upfront to, to sponsor you for this and be like, hey, look, I'm gonna, you know, this is the, this is the concept. I bet you could pitch them enough to be like, this is gonna be kind of like a, a show where you're the main sponsor and I think this will do really well. I kind of think you could get paid for, for, you don't need, you don't need all of them paid for, but like enough to do four or five. And then once you get some views, then you can kind of go from there. It's not a bad idea.

• 31:03Ben Levy?

  And then the, the tangent, the tangent I have on is like, why are there not courtside seats at the Apple Demo Day, YC Demo Day, OpenAI? Like, why is Timothy Chalamet not sitting courtside there? Like, they should definitely have Timothy Chalamet or whoever sitting, there needs to be

• 31:20Shaan Puri?

  Or concerts, right? Like, you know, like, pretty much any event. It is kind of interesting to know who's who's up front, who's there, who came. Uh, I, I, I'm kind of interested in that. You know, what I want is not the interview, though. I just want to know literally like, this is my version of LinkedIn. Like whenever I'm watching a Warriors game, I'll basically pause the screen and I'll try to see like, do I recognize anybody or who are these people that are sitting there? Because it's kind of like my first million, like all those people have some interesting success story, right? You don't get to be courtside without an interesting success story. And I want to know who those people are. Like I would pay, I'd be, I'd gladly pay 20 bucks a month. If somebody was just photographing who's courtside at the games and then just telling me what those people, who those people are and what they do.

• 32:05Shaan Puri?

  It's my version of like paparazzi or TMZ that I actually give a shit about. It's like this weird mix of like business and basketball, very niche, but I would do it.

• 32:14Ben Levy?

  Yeah. The other day was like a highlight of my week. I was watching the Thunder Pacers game and I saw a guy that we know on Twitter sitting courtside, fist pumping Mike Beckham from Simple Modern. I was like, damn.

• 32:26Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, I saw that. That's cool. All right. What's your next half baked idea?

• 32:30Ben Levy?

  All right. So the next one I call lunch bounty before we got to buy lunch bounty.com. So the idea is basically this, you've seen things like, um, you've seen these social networks where basically you can buy, all your tokens are available and to claim them, you get a hundred thousand dollars, right? That was BitClout, right?

• 32:47Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 32:48Ben Levy?

  And then we've heard these stories of people where they spend, you know, $30,000, a hundred thousand dollars to go get lunch with someone. Like I believe.

• 32:56Shaan Puri?

  Warren Buffett or.

• 32:57Ben Levy?

  Warren Buffett, or I've heard stories where people used to pay $35,000 to get dinner with Peter Thiel. And it changed their entire life, but there's no real marketplace to find those opportunities. Like maybe you'll occasionally find them on eBay or their Twitter. I want to create a marketplace that's basically like, okay, if there's a hundred thousand dollars sitting here and Bill Ackman, all you have to do is hit yes, and then your lunch is, you know, Ben is willing to pay a hundred thousand dollars to get lunch with you. And just have a marketplace where it's just lunch, a one hour lunch and someone can basically preemptively bid on how much they're willing to pay for lunch with X.

• 33:34Shaan Puri?

  I like this. This is actually, when you first said it, I didn't know where you were going with this. But this is actually kind of an interesting, simple idea. By the way, I think the right, uh, the right lens for this is, uh, these are non-serious business ideas. Like, we have a bunch of serious, more boring business ideas, but these are just like fun ideas.

• 33:49Ben Levy?

  And the key to this one, by the way, is its charity. The key is like everything is a charity.

• 33:53Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly. So you need basically, and are you saying do it permissionlessly? So like, are you saying you'll go, you'll just put up Bill Ackman lunch, New York? You get it to $50,000 of somebody who wants to go have lunch with Bill Ackman? And then you basically are telling Bill Ackman, hey, by the way, we're auctioning this off.

• 34:12Shaan Puri?

  It's at 50,000. The proceeds will go to your favorite charity. Would you be, are you willing to, to honor it? Are you willing to do it? The guy doesn't get charged anything if you don't do it. And you're basically gonna like publicly pressure them to do this to get it off the ground?

• 34:23Ben Levy?

  Yeah, exactly. That's the exact idea.

• 34:26Shaan Puri?

  You know, it's sort of a gray area, but how mad are they really gonna be? You're raising a bunch of money for their, you know, charity of choice.

• 34:34Shaan Puri?

  I think you could do this. I think you'd get away with this. I know Andrew Wilkens did this not, not long ago. I think he did like a $20,000 lunch or something like that. We know that Monish Prabha paid $650,000 to go to lunch with Warren Buffett. If you just think about like, if you had, let's just pretend you had two of these a week, right? Maybe you have it as like a successful person and then maybe a, either an actor, celebrity musician, or like an athlete, something like that. But even two a week. And let's say the average, one of these would go for what? Like, you think 25K?

• 35:04Ben Levy?

  10 to 50, yeah, $25,000, good ballpark.

• 35:08Shaan Puri?

  So you're gonna raise basically two and a half million dollars for charity? If you could even just do two of these every week?

• 35:17Ben Levy?

  Yeah, I think it's, I actually think it's a good idea. It is a crazy idea, but I think it's a good idea.

• 35:21Shaan Puri?

  Exactly. I think if you're trying to do like fun slash social impact, this is kind of an interesting idea. And by the way, you would end up meeting all these people because you created this, like, whatever this thing is, the, the lunch program.

• 35:34Ben Levy?

  Yeah, exactly. If that's my idea.

• 35:35Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. All right. What else you got? Well, do this one. Everyone needs their Birkin bag. I'm surprised you even know what a Birkin bag is. What are you thinking here?

• 35:44Ben Levy?

  I don't know much about Birkin bags, other than it sounds cool and I think it's really expensive. So for me, what that was is one of my buddies started this company called StockX. And he called me, I don't know, a year ago and he was like, dude, I'm starting a new company. We make these awesome collectibles. And what we do is we basically, the website is I think ghostrike.com. And what we do is we basically make figurines of fame. We do licensing deals and we make figurines of famous people, very similar to this thing called KAWS.

• 36:17Shaan Puri?

  So and by figurines, are these like small figurines or they big, what are they, like they're plastic?

• 36:22Ben Levy?

  I think he makes both, but for this specific one, he calls me out of the blue. Six months, I think they're glass, plastic, a mix of everything. But six months ago, he calls me out of the blue, he goes, dude, I know you're a huge Phoenix Suns fan. I've got something just for you. I was like, what is it? You're calling the right guy. And he goes, you know, we're doing a special run of six foot tall figurines. It's like, all right, I have no idea where I'd put a six foot figurine that's I think made out of glass.

• 36:52Shaan Puri?

  That's like a nutcracker that you put at the door, right?

• 36:55Ben Levy?

  Like, I have no clue, but hey, you got the word Phoenix Suns and like, honestly, you might have sold me already. And he goes, so it's, we're doing a special run. It's only, only a certain number of NBA players. And we're making a Devin Booker, so a six foot tall Devin Booker figurine. And it was like, all right, how much? Like, I guess I've been looking for my Birkin bag, so how much? And, you know, he goes, $10,000, which, you know, I, I don't think I've spent $10,000 on myself really on anything. Outside of like, you know, investing in Bitcoin, I can't think of the last time I've spent $10,000 on something. And I didn't even think about it. I said yes immediately. And then later I told my wife and I was like.

• 37:40Shaan Puri?

  And by the way, this is like a one of one or there's like gonna be thousands of these?

• 37:44Ben Levy?

  It's a one of one. So I'm the only guy with the Devin Booker and. You know, I don't know what I'm gonna do with, I mean, it's, I'm the only guy with Devin Booker and I was like, okay, it's gonna be cool, cuz maybe one day, he's gonna call me, he's gonna be like, dude, I respect that you own the other one of one, like, that's cool.

• 38:00Shaan Puri?

  Devin Booker's gonna call you, that's the dream?

• 38:02Ben Levy?

  The dream is that Devin Booker's gonna call and FaceTime me one day and be pretty fired up.

• 38:05Shaan Puri?

  Hey, man, I heard you bought that six-foot figurine of me.

• 38:08Ben Levy?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 38:08Shaan Puri?

  Do you wanna be friends? That's what you thought was gonna happen?

• 38:11Ben Levy?

  I mean, that's a terrible dream now that I say it, but that's what I was hoping for.

• 38:15Shaan Puri?

  Right, there's a small part of you.

• 38:16Ben Levy?

  And then I told my wife, I was like, yeah, um, so I got this thing coming in six months, I don't know when it's coming, but like, it's from a buddy. But, you know, here's the good news, here's, here's the good news, it's a six-foot tall figurine, and even better news is that it was a gift. But the, you know, unfortunately, like, I left out the fact that it was a $10,000 gift, uh, it was a gift. So, you know, it's kinda led me to my new take, which is that like, you know, everyone needs their Birkin bag, so, you know, the idea is basically like, empower everyone to make that crazy purchase, it makes absolutely no sense, uh, and just, you know, just call it a gift, you know, tell your wife it's a gift.

• 38:56Shaan Puri?

  Tell your wife it's a gift, it's a gift that I bought for myself, you know, you, um, I think you might be on to something, right? So, collectibles is now a bigger, bigger space, right? One of the investments we missed on, which I think still kinda eats at us a little bit, is Whatnot. We had the ability to invest in Whatnot pretty early on, we tried to, the guy was like, I don't know, there's not enough room in the round, and we didn't really push it, we were like, okay, well, we hope, you know, we want, we want to, and then we didn't really follow up. It's now, how much is Whatnot worth now? I think at the time, Whatnot was like valued at 50 or 60 million dollars.

• 39:31Ben Levy?

  I think it's five, I think it's five, I think it's five billion dollars now.

• 39:34Shaan Puri?

  Five billion, and I think they just said that they've done five billion in sales on their thing, if you don't know what Whatnot is, it's basically, you open an app, it's a live video of someone basically opening up like a pack of Pokemon cards, or NBA trading cards, and they're, you basically, you buy it, so you push a button, you, Apple Pay, you could buy the pack, and he'll be like, oh, Sean, all right, Sean, you bought the pack, all right, man, good luck. It opens up the pack in front of you, shows you what it is, and then it mails you the cards after the fact. So you kind of like, you just shop live, and then they open the pack, you see, it's like a lottery thing, you see if you win or not, and then they mail you the thing after the fact, it's kind of like a crazy idea. But it's all collectibles and they've sold $5 billion in the last, I don't know, 12 months

• 40:18Shaan Puri?

  or something like that of collectibles. So like, people are getting their Birkin bags. For some people, it's Pokemon cards. For some people, it's NBA trading cards. For some people, for you, it's your statue of Devin Booker. For, you know, for your wife, it might be an actual Birkin bag. I think the question is, who doesn't have their Birkin yet? So like, basically, what niche does it? And we have a buddy that is going pretty hard at tech collectibles. So he's trying to buy like the original Macintosh, or like, you know, a piece of the first SpaceX Falcon. Stuff that there's not really a market for now, it just feels like random memorabilia. But I think over time, tech has become so much

• 40:59Shaan Puri?

  more important in culture, right? Like, growing up, tech was a side thing, but now it's like, you got movies, you know, the social network, and everybody knows who these CEOs are. You know who Zuckerberg is. You know who Elon is. They're like the most followed people on the planet in some cases. I think that tech collectibles is gonna be a big thing. And our friend who's doing this, I'm sort of jealous that they're doing this because I think this is a smart idea.

• 41:23Ben Levy?

  Yeah, I think that's a great idea. But I am curious, what's your Birkin bag? Like, what have you bought?

• 41:28Shaan Puri?

  Do I have one?

• 41:29Ben Levy?

  Dude, that's insane.

• 41:31Shaan Puri?

  Um, what is the definition here? So it's gotta be something that's totally irrational, right? Like, it's not about the utility of the product. Like, I bought a piano. But like, I bought a piano, I play the piano, it's an instrument. Like, yeah, I could have bought a cheaper one, but I bought a more expensive one. I think that doesn't count. I think it's also gotta be kind of like status or collection-driven. And I don't know if I'm a collector. I'm not a car guy. Not a watch guy.

• 41:59Ben Levy?

  You did buy a CryptoPunk like, you know, three years ago.

• 42:03Shaan Puri?

  I did, I did. But I didn't buy it, I mean, we bought, we bought that just as like a marketing gag for, for Milk Road. We didn't really, it's not like I actually was like, oh my god, I love the art.

• 42:14Ben Levy?

  Yeah.

• 42:15Shaan Puri?

  It's never been a thing for me.

• 42:17Ben Levy?

  Yeah.

• 42:17Shaan Puri?

  You know what I would do? I would do, if musicians did their version of Birkins. So like, if a musician was like, hey, we have like a, kind of like a one-of-one collectible, maybe it's a recording, or it's a freestyle, or it's like a variation of the song, and they're only gonna, you know, they sell one of them, and you get to collect it as a piece of art that's music. I would be pretty into that. I think that's pretty cool.

• 42:41Ben Levy?

  Maybe MFM needs to come up with its own Birkin bag that we can offer the biggest MFM fans.

• 42:48Shaan Puri?

  I'll have a six foot statue of you dude. Alright, what else you got? You got any other good ones? What's your best one? What's your, what's your best idea?

• 42:55Ben Levy?

  Okay, I think my best idea, I've got a bunch of good ones, but I'll give you a great one. So I think, you know, I've been thinking a lot about when you're post-economic, which I am not, but I hope to be at some point in the future.

• 43:08Shaan Puri?

  The defined post-economic, what does that mean? People don't know that.

• 43:11Ben Levy?

  You know, basically if you've made over $10 million and you don't have to work, what are you gonna spend your time doing?

• 43:19Shaan Puri?

  I would say post-economic is when you no longer make decisions based on money. That's both spending decisions, like you decide what you want, the price doesn't really matter, right? And this happens first at like, you buy guac at Chipotle, you don't care that it's two bucks. Then you buy, you can go to any restaurant, buy anything, you can go to any store, buy anything, and it just levels up from there. You travel first class, you don't even think about it. You travel private, you don't even think about it, right? Like, spending is one side, and then the other side is earning, meaning you decide what to do with your time, not based on how much money it's gonna make you. That's, to me, that's post-economic.

• 43:53Ben Levy?

  Yeah, so like, once you're there, you could, you basically, you have all these nice things, and you just quickly get used to them, right? It's like you move into a nicer house. After a week, you totally, you just don't even, you know, for lack of a better word, you don't even care, right? It's like, yeah, I'm used to it, get a nicer car. So I've been thinking about, like, what are actual experiences that change, like, that people want. And I think when you're there, one, you wanna feel, you wanna feel pain again. Like, you kinda wanna go back to where you were when you were starting something, when everything was hard, and you wanna feel pain. So my big idea is Survivor. So we all, you know, obviously you know what Survivor is, basically, TV, month-long TV show where you go in the middle of nowhere and you have to compete.

• 44:37Ben Levy?

  But imagine a world where we basically created an island, where you have to pay a hundred grand to go compete in a real-life Survivor. So, you get dropped in the middle of nowhere for a whole month, you pay a hundred grand to be there, and the winner... You know, the winner wins money, but the whole idea is basically an actual Survivor that you pay to be there. All your friends and family can watch. It's livestreamed. And it's purely for when those people are post-economic and, you know, they're sick and tired of flying all over the world. They're sick and tired of just staying at random hotels. Like, you know, it's just not that interesting. Like, go back to square one and go be on Survivor.

• 45:14Shaan Puri?

  You know, I think when you first said it, I was like, hmm, this sounds kind of dumb. But actually, you know, we have so many friends that basically sell their company and immediately start training for Ironman, right? Or triathlons. And actually, if you want to get in great shape, like, or like an ultra race, right? Where you're like, run 100 miles or 50 miles, 50 miles or something like that. And, you know, like marathoners and ultra racers, like, they're in good shape in one dimension, but it's not actually like, good for your body. Like, they end up just kind of shin splints and just sort of destroying their body a little bit. They don't get in like, very good aesthetic shape to do it, right? You don't like, put on muscle. You kind of like skinny yourself out.

• 45:55Shaan Puri?

  But they do it because they want to do something hard. And you're right, you kind of feel alive and you feel tough and you got a story to tell and you challenge yourself and like, you do this like voluntary hardship. Cold plunge, same thing. Voluntary hardship that you get to show. And so I actually think that you're probably right, that there's a number of people who would sign up for like a combination of, it's a digital detox, right? Because you're not going to have your phone, internet, you're going to be totally disconnected. It's hard. And so you're going to get that like hardship experience without having to like, train to run a long race. And I think it's like transformative rite of passage type of thing, which it seems like people need more and more. Now that like, the whole

• 46:39Shaan Puri?

  world is so easy. You push a button and someone will like literally deliver a platter of nachos to your door from DoorDash, right? Like, the life has never been easier, in one sense, which creates a craving for hard. But if hard is not natural, then you have to sort of create an artificial hard. And I think that's what this is. It's an artificial hard. And I think that's why people like this David Goggins, Jaco Willink. Like, I think that's why people gravitate towards that type of stuff, because there's some itch they're trying to scratch. And it seems like you're saying- Here's a version of that. Pay 50 or 100 grand and you're gonna go for, what did you say, 30 days?

• 47:13Ben Levy?

  Yeah, 30 days. That's all it takes.

• 47:15Shaan Puri?

  30 days and you have to survive just with your own bare necessities on an island.

• 47:21Ben Levy?

  Yeah, and you know, this works. You take it to other franchises too, right? It's like Love Island. It's like, don't go unmatched, don't use matchmaking.

• 47:28Shaan Puri?

  So this is actually just like branded as part of the game, as part of the show, is what you're saying?

• 47:33Ben Levy?

  I'm just saying, you take all these, all these popular reality TV shows and people just go pay to have their own versions of them. Cause it's better than, you know.

• 47:42Shaan Puri?

  Dude, Love is Blind, I swear, I can't believe there's not just like a Love is Blind tour going around city to city where people who are single and see Love is Blind are like, alright, I wanna do it. I wanna go on the pods. I'm gonna meet somebody that way. And I'll spend, you know, basically three or four days doing this and then come out and then I date that person. Trim the like marriage part, cause that's the drama for TV. That doesn't make any sense. It's like, oh, we propose and we have to get married in 20 days. Like, you could take that part out, but just the like, the pods experience? If I was single, I would want to do that. And that's kind of an insane thing. I can't believe that's not on tour.

• 48:17Ben Levy?

  I mean, for Real Life Survivor, I'd pay 100 grand right now to go there and, you know, basically like, if it was just like.

• 48:23Shaan Puri?

  Hey, you don't have to pay 100 grand. I could just drop you off somewhere, dude, and I'll pick you up for 30 days.

• 48:27Ben Levy?

  Yeah, I think that, I think like, reality TV done well for people that wanna pay for that is a great idea.

• 48:35Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, it creates the desire and the curiosity of like, could I do it? How would I do it? Right? Like, and so if you just made that accessible to people, yeah, for sure. For sure, people would wanna do that. And, and by the way, is this like, are you saying this is a business? Or what are you, what are you saying here?

• 48:51Ben Levy?

  I'm saying it's a fun, fun, maybe it's a business, you know, maybe it could be like the new Tough Mudder. It's like, you know, back in the day when Tough Mudder was pretty big. Maybe it could be the new Tough Mudder. It's just a five, 10 day experience, you know, maybe.

• 49:04Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, I think you gotta bring the price down. I mean, 100,000 is really, it's, it's very high. I think you really, I think if you did this for $10,000. This might work, not to, not to cheapen your idea, but I feel like you could get some scale with this thing, cause what does it cost you to run it? It's like, you just need like a medic. And then there could be like 20 people doing this together. They could live as a tribe. In fact, it's probably better as a tribe and not you on your own, right?

• 49:31Ben Levy?

  Yeah, it's probably way better, like your five friends as a tribe in there.

• 49:35Shaan Puri?

  Are you doing the whole thing? Are you voting people off or no? It's just 30 days of survival.

• 49:39Ben Levy?

  No, you're voting people off. I think you gotta do the whole thing.

• 49:41Shaan Puri?

  Oh, it's the whole thing? Okay, gotcha.

• 49:42Ben Levy?

  I think it's the whole thing.

• 49:44Shaan Puri?

  All right. You got some more on here, so let's do, um,

• 49:51Shaan Puri?

  Cool Carpal Tunnel Brand. Oh, I know what this is.

• 49:54Ben Levy?

  Yeah.

• 49:55Shaan Puri?

  Ben, put your hands up right now. If you're on YouTube. So Ben, right now.

• 49:59Ben Levy?

  I'm not wearing this glove because I'm not writing.

• 50:00Shaan Puri?

  I've never seen Ben's right hand because every time I get on a call with Ben, he's wearing this Michael Jackson glove. This absolute OJ Strangler glove on his right hand at all times. And it's because you had like a carpal tunnel issue. And so he just wears that all day.

• 50:17Ben Levy?

  Honestly, I don't even know if I have carpal tunnel anymore. I'm just used to wearing the glove and I like the fit. So I'm like, oh, you know, people make cool batting gloves for baseball.

• 50:24Shaan Puri?

  It's just my thing now.

• 50:25Ben Levy?

  You know, now we just need cool gloves for working. Like where's the Cool Carpal Tunnel Brand?

• 50:31Shaan Puri?

  So, okay, so, so I guess I can explain this. You started having pain. You Googled how to fix it and then this came up?

• 50:39Ben Levy?

  I mean, I think it's like one of those WebMD things though, where it's like, oh, one day I was like, oh, my hand feels kind of weird when I'm typing. Maybe I've got bad form. And then you just go down this whole thing and you start watching YouTube videos about, oh, maybe I have carpal tunnel. And then I went to Amazon and I probably bought, spent $500 on 50 pairs of these gloves that I now wear every day.

• 51:01Shaan Puri?

  We were talking about Touchland the other day with Harley from Shopify. And the thing about Touchland is they took a very boring, sterile category, hand sanitizer, literally sterile. And the founder rebranded it, remade it into something that was kind of sexy, kind of cool, smelled good. And then they started collabing, made the designs look good. They started collaborating with Disney and others and licensing the IP. And I think about like, actually all, um, kind of like braces, like, you know, basically like you're talking about your wrist brace, your wrist glove. I have like a knee thing. There's like arm sleeves. There's like, you know, a lot of people wear these because they have pain and they're, they have plantar fasciitis, they have knee pain, they have elbow pain, they have wrist pain,

• 51:45Shaan Puri?

  they have frozen shoulder, whatever it is. And actually, all of those are very ugly and very sterile looking, similar to hand sanitizer. And you're probably right that somebody could just make a cooler brand in that space, charge more for it. But like, if you wanna, it's, it is fashion. It doesn't have to be ugly. It is a thing you're wearing. Why not make it look better and see what comes out of that?

• 52:09Ben Levy?

  Yeah, I mean, I think it's a no, I think it's a no brainer. Again, I kinda wanna hide this glove when I wear it, but you know, hey, I think it's a no brainer.

• 52:17Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, but although I don't know what glove would look cool on you. Like, what would I do to that glove to make it not look like you're wearing the Michael Jackson glove? I don't really know. If it was a different color, would that really change anything? It's hard to say.

• 52:29Ben Levy?

  I think it needs Johnny Ive. Like, you know, if we had, if we had $5 billion, we could get Johnny Ive on it.

• 52:37Shaan Puri?

  Um, all right. What else should we talk about?

• 52:38Ben Levy?

  I've got one more that I think we should hit, which is, you know, at the top of this episode, we were talking about how I went to K Academy. You know, basically went and spent a week at Duke basketball, competed really hard. And coach, you know, the cool thing about it is Coach K was there the whole time. He's sitting there. He doesn't talk much. He doesn't talk much, but he does give like two or three speeches. And, you know, he said one thing in his speech that I wrote down that I thought was really good. Or he said two things. One of them is part of the half-baked idea. The other one's just interesting. He said, you know, at Duke, we pursue moments, which I wrote down because I think, and it's really, you know, basically he's like, everything's a moment. I wanna hold these moments that are awesome. So, you know, when I kinda took that and said, all right, I wanna pursue moments. I think that's a cool mantra.

• 53:22Shaan Puri?

  Sounds cool. What do you really mean by like, what's an example of that? What do you mean by pursue moments?

• 53:27Ben Levy?

  I think it's basically just like be present and like you're looking for like very, enjoy very specific things and remember those things. But also I was just like, oh, that sounds cool. It's like a cool thing to tell my mom that I experienced.

• 53:41Shaan Puri?

  Pursue moments. I think that like, I think about like whether it's with my kids or, it's like, you know, yeah, you're gonna do a business for five years. That's a long time. And like, if you just, if I probably just told myself that, like, all right, I'm just trying to pursue this moment. What's the moment I'm trying to pursue? Or like, if I'm in the moment, really pursue it, really go, really go for it, lean into it. I think. I kind of like that. All right. I mean, I buy that. Go ahead.

• 54:03Ben Levy?

  And then the second part was like, you know, he was talking about how he worked with Kobe. And, you know, he was basically telling the story about how he he made Kobe cry before they played in like this USA gold medal game, I think in 2008 when they beat Spain. And he was talking about how he motivated him. So I went around and like, you know, at this K Academy. Everyone there is like an ex Duke player. So like there's 50 ex Duke guys just kind of walking around that you can talk to. So I went and asked like five of them, like, you know, what was Coach K so good at? Like, what was he A++ at? And everyone just says motivation. And I know you're like a motivation guy. I know you're a Tony Robbins disciple.

• 54:47Ben Levy?

  And, you know, everyone talks about how he just made these incredible custom videos. So I'd be like, all right, if we're before this game, he's going to bring me in and he's going to have this custom thing that he built just for me, just to focus on, you know, my hustle or my intensity. So I kind of had this idea, which is like, Coach K in a box, which is with AI, could you essentially make something that does custom motivational videos based on all these inputs that exactly you need today? So it's like, okay. If I wore this device and it knew everything about me, I just want a custom motivational video right now for this workout I'm about to do or for the sales call I'm about to take. So that's the idea, like Coach K in a box. And I know you have a bunch of thoughts. Let me hear them.

• 55:34Shaan Puri?

  Well, when I was at Duke, my roommate Trevor was trying to walk onto the basketball team. And he ended up being the last guy cut. So he didn't end up getting on the team, but he was a manager for the team for a few years. So he would tell me all the time about Coach K, like, yeah, what is he doing all that? And I had the same question like you, right? Like this guy's the, I think he's the all time winningest college basketball coach. He was the men's, he's the Olympic basketball coach for a long time. So, okay, he's a GOAT. Okay. So, you know, I think you asked the right question, like, what makes this guy so great? Because I want to learn from that. I want to learn from the GOATs. And Trevor told me, he's like, dude, he would do this stuff in the locker room. So what he would do is, I thought when a coach gives a motivational talk, it's they walk in, they say, all right, everybody

• 56:19Shaan Puri?

  listen up, like, we got a big game, we want to get out there, give it your all, are you gonna give it your all? Yeah, no, let me hear you say it. Yeah. I thought that's what it is. No, no, no, no. Here's how it worked. He was like, before Coach K enters the room, they dim the lights, they would turn on the the big screen that they had in their locker room. And it would be edited video, like, kind of like what a 16 year old kid on TikTok would make. And it's basically a spliced video that was like, let's say it was them playing the last time they played this team. But then intersplice was like footage from Braveheart. It'd be like the speech at Braveheart, the war scene spliced in with the game. And you're like, oh, it's kind of cheesy. But they're

• 57:00Shaan Puri?

  like, no, no, no, trust me. In the moment, that shit hit hard. It's like the music, the splicing, the speech, the footage of you. And then at the end, literally, Coach K came out face painted like Braveheart, rolled a ball onto the ground. And Coach K's old, like, he was like in his 70s. He had like, double hip replacement. And he would dive on the ball. And like, basically, like, you know, like, the ultimate sign of hustle in basketball is diving for a loose ball. And he would, he would run into the locker room, face painted, dive onto the ball, screaming and be like, and be like, let's fucking go kill these guys right now. And people would be like, whoa, like, it was total shock value for the team. And he would really light into them and get into them on that. And so he would do the motivational up videos. And then, last time

• 57:45Shaan Puri?

  we did, or two years ago, we did our basketball camp that me and you do, we call it Hoop Group. Where we basically take 25 or 30 of the most like ambitious founders we know, like, this, like, I don't know, half the people there are billionaires. But they loved basketball. And we went to go visit Duke campus, and we played in Duke Stadium, Cameron Indoor Stadium. And when we were there, we were asking one of the ex-players, who's now a coach, We were like, can you tell us a great Coach K story? And he did, he goes, I was on the team, I was a captain and I had a bad game. And after that bad game, the next day at practice, I thought maybe Coach K would kind of like rip into me a little bit or tell me I needed to play better. That's kind of what I expected. And you know, if you do what people expect, you don't really get much of a response, right? They're, they're ready for it.

• 58:29Shaan Puri?

  It's like somebody who's they've, they're tensed up. You can, you can't really like, you know, push them over. They're, they're ready for it. And so he, he's like, he doesn't say anything during the practice to me, doesn't talk to me. And we're practicing, I'm kind of like, huh, he didn't, didn't say anything. And then he calls me over to this room and they have this film room where they normally like, um, review game footage. And he's like, that room has like six TV screens or eight TV screens in the room. And I walk in and it's, um, my face is on every single one of the screens and it's just me and him in there. And it's, it was a basically a slideshow of his facial expressions from the last game. And it was just his face kind of whining. I didn't get a call, being, being, oh, I missed that shot, kind of being bummed about it.

• 59:15Shaan Puri?

  I got taken out of the game. I had bad body language there. Then in the second half started, I was having a bad game. So I was just kind of, you know, I was checked out when we were doing the team huddle. And then again, I fouled this guy and I disagreed with the call and I'm pouting, I'm doing this with my hands, being like, oh, come on, man. And they froze it on that screen and he goes, Coach K looked at me and he goes, if I ever see the palms of your hands again, you will never play for this team again. He's like, I don't ever, he goes, you're a captain, you're a man, you're a leader. Leaders don't look like this. They don't beg and whine and pout for something, you know, like you need to carry yourself like a leader. He goes, I don't care what you do, I don't care if the ball goes in or not, but you will not act like this again.

• 59:59Shaan Puri?

  And he goes, dude, that burned into my skull. Like he's like, I just, I would never do that again. And I thought that was an incredible story. I was like, dude, this is a.

• 1:00:10Shaan Puri?

  Whenever I talk to people about like, oh, what's it like to work with Elon or Steve Jobs? I'm looking for a story like this. What do they actually do that's different? That's something I would never do, that I would never think to do. But it makes sense when they do it that like, holy shit, yeah, that would actually like shift the way that somebody operates and somebody works. I couldn't believe that story. Do you remember that one?

• 1:00:30Ben Levy?

  Yeah, it's insane. And that's like, that's what I want. Like, okay, he's a good motivator. But like, tell me the stories that he like, I wanna, like, I'm like, oh, we should just go write a book where you go get 25 Coach K stories that are just about how he motivates, because it's insane.

• 1:00:44Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, exactly. And also just kind of makes you think like, damn, I wouldn't even think to do that. Like, how mu- you know, there's no rule against something like that, but like, what a it just feels against the norms. But I guess like, as you build up your own credibility, it's almost like lean into that power and basically use your credibility. Like, he could kind of say anything, he could do anything kind of crazy, uh, and get away with it because he's Coach K, I guess. There's a method to the madness. I wonder like, I wonder if he was doing that stuff early on, and I wonder if he got more bold about it as he went along. But I'm with you, dude. If I had a Coach K in my life, I'd be good. I don't know if I could do the motivational speech because like, I think part of it is you need like,

• 1:01:25Shaan Puri?

  the B-roll needs to be me like playing spo- like, the B-roll of me just like typing emails.

• 1:01:32Shaan Puri?

  Like, writing a document, like, I don't, I don't think there's any, you, you could play Fort Minor on that track, it's not going to do anything for me.

• 1:01:40Ben Levy?

  It might, it might, dude, it might.

• 1:01:43Shaan Puri?

  It might, I don't know.

• 1:01:44Ben Levy?

  Yeah. And also there was this one story, like, you know, a few years ago, the Heat had that miraculous run to the finals and I specifically remember this moment where this guy Bam Adebayo is like up there at the end, talk, you know, they're like interviewing him because he's the Eastern Conference Finals MVP. And he's just, he gets on the mic and he goes, dude, you Donnis Haslam had this insane video for us. That changed how we approached game seven when they beat the Celtics. And I spent the past two years like trying to figure out what that video was. So at this camp, the last thing about K Academy is I, I went up to Justice Winslow, who played for the Heat. Like dude, what do the heat do to motivate like what was in that video? He's like, I wasn't on the team then, but I could text some guys.

• 1:02:26Ben Levy?

  He's like, but I'll tell you now, it is exactly like the thing you heard from Coach K. It is going to be something so custom. It's going to be Braveheart. It's going to be Fort Minor. It's going to be like they're pulling out all the stops. And, uh, you know, it's like in that setting. And ever since then, I'm like, dude, I just want to like next hoop group. I just want to experience that for like 10 minutes. That's my only ask.

• 1:02:50Shaan Puri?

  Uh, that's too good.

• 1:02:53Shaan Puri?

  I love that story. Yeah, I really love that story. That's like, that's in my like Hall of Fame, Hall of Fame of like, uh, you know, motivational stories. What else you got? Do you want to do anything else or we're going to wrap up?

• 1:03:05Ben Levy?

  Let's see, I think, uh, I think we should wrap on one final thing, which is, you know, earlier you were talking about Club LTV, which was awesome. You know, I think we had 150, 200 people in it back in the day. Meeting, I think once every other week to talk business, meet each other. And I think we should bring that thing back in some way. What do you think?

• 1:03:25Shaan Puri?

  What would we do? So we don't, I don't think we need to do the Ecom version of it anymore. So here's my, here's my thesis. Thesis is a very fancy word for what I'm about to say. So let me, let me bring that expectation down. In, uh, MFM has roughly a million people who listen to it. Maybe not all regularly, but that's like kind of our reach, uh, is a million people who are all entrepreneurial. They're all what I call like entrepreneurs with a sense of humor. I said, who I think we attract, people who are entrepreneurial with it and they have a sense of humor. And so, um, my, my thinking is I'm never going to meet all those people. Honestly, I don't really want to meet a million people. That's not really my goal. However, the top 1% of our audience.

• 1:04:11Shaan Puri?

  Is like a fascinating group of people, right? They're very interesting. They, you know, it's gonna be like people who are like CEOs of public companies. It's some dude in, you know, Wichita, who's got a $40 million like chemicals plant that he runs. There's a guy who's got this like tutoring business, side hustle thing, that's whatever. There's a bunch of interesting people in that top 1%. I think what would be dope is if we did Club LTV again, which was like your thing. You would curate, it was a curated group. I think that's key because you want everybody else in there to be somebody you're happy to have met. Right? Like, that's the goal. Take the top 1% of MFM listeners and then basically do like, what? Like a happy hour? Kind of like a speed dating thing? That's, that's kind of the way we did it before, which was like, you meet once a month roughly,

• 1:04:55Shaan Puri?

  and Ben kind of puts people in groups and then you go, you talk with a specific prompt, and then he switches, he shuffles the groups. And so you meet, in an hour, you're gonna meet a bunch of cool people and you're gonna learn one or two things. And I think that would be awesome. We should bring that back.

• 1:05:11Ben Levy?

  Yeah, we should do that.

• 1:05:13Shaan Puri?

  By the way, people don't know, Club LTV stands, in Ecom, LTV means lifetime value. It's like the key metric there. So we made it Club LTV, which is basically the name, the gimmick of the thing. But the funny thing was Ben would always do these like, he would pursue those moments. He would make these little things that would make it fun. So like, you would send everybody like custom Zoom backgrounds or like the start of every Club LTV, because it was, we called it a club, it was like a nightclub. He would have like, DJ Khalid would record a cameo and you would play it for the whole group at the beginning. It was awesome. It was a lot of fun. I think you should keep doing those things because that, I still remember that.

• 1:05:49Ben Levy?

  I think we had a red man. I think we had Method Man and Redman too, I think.

• 1:05:55Shaan Puri?

  Every time there was like some washed up rapper who would hype the shit out of us for like the first 30 seconds of the, of the thing. Ben's just burning like $500 cameos to make that happen.

• 1:06:07Ben Levy?

  Yeah, man, I mean, to me, it's like, you know, it's like when you meet someone that also likes MFM, even for me and you too, it's like, oh, I, I like this guy or I like this woman, I like this girl. I mean, actually, you meet, you like that person.

• 1:06:20Shaan Puri?

  No, I know what you mean. We're not for everybody. So if you like it, the odds of you getting along with somebody else who really likes the podcast are pretty high. So it's kind of like one of those things where if two people were wearing the hat, you would do the nod and be like, okay, we, I'm sure we would have a pretty fun hangout if we hung out. And that's kind of the idea here.

• 1:06:38Ben Levy?

  Yeah, and it's not Hampton, it's not a group, it's just like very lightweight, meet some other cool people. You know, get to know the other people in the MFM community.

• 1:06:46Shaan Puri?

  And it's free, by the way, it's not like a paid thing. So, what do you want, how do you want people to like, apply? Cause you're gonna curate the group, so what do you want people to do to, how should people do it?

• 1:06:56Ben Levy?

  Let's see.

• 1:06:56Shaan Puri?

  Should we put a link at the, just put a link in the description?

• 1:06:58Ben Levy?

  Let's put a link in the description.

• 1:07:00Shaan Puri?

  Alright, if you wanna do it, if you think you're in that top 1% of interesting, fun, MFM listeners, put yourself down there and tell us, tell us who you are and then Ben will kinda curate a good group every, every month for us.

• 1:07:12Ben Levy?

  Alright, and if you wanna follow me on Twitter, Ben M Levy, I don't tweet much, but uh, you know, I will DM you interesting stuff.

• 1:07:19Shaan Puri?

  When was your last tweet, dude? It was like in 2018.

• 1:07:22Ben Levy?

  It's been a long time. It's been a long time.

• 1:07:26Shaan Puri?

  So that's, uh, that's Ben, thanks for coming on dude. Uh, I'm gonna talk to you probably right after this, cause that's what we do, I call you after every podcast, so I'll see you in a second.

• 1:07:34Ben Levy?

  Alright, thanks guys.