Episode 410: Robert Greene: Are Great Observers Born or Made? The Nature vs Nurture of Empathy

Listen to the full episode here: https://youtu.be/VKvDPETfoIM?si=jiFLE73nwYdcNQb3 Have you ever wondered if the ability to empathize and keenly observe others is something you're born with or a skill you can develop? In this Habits and Hustle bonus episode, I talk with acclaimed author Robert Greene as he shares his insights on this very question. We discuss understanding one's own behavior and decisions, the unconscious influences on decision-making, and why it's important to recognize patterns in personal relationships. We also discuss whether empathy and observational skills can be learned and improved with practice. Robert Greene is an American author known for his books on strategy, power, and seduction. He is the man behind the international bestsellers: The 48 Laws of Power, The Art of Seduction, The 33 Strategies of War, The 50th Law (with rapper 50 Cent), Mastery, and The Laws of Human Nature. What we discuss: Are empathy and observational skills innate or learned? Understanding one's own behavior and decisions Unconscious influences on decision-making Recognizing patterns in personal relationships Motivation to improve oneself through self-reflection and admitting flaws Empathy and observational skills can be learned and improved with practice The benefits of observing others And more… Thank you to our sponsors: Therasage: Head over to therasage.com http://therasage.com/ and use code Be Bold for 15% off TruNiagen: Head over to truniagen.com http://truniagen.com/ and use code HUSTLE20 to get $20 off any purchase over $100. Magic Mind: Head over to www http://www/.magicmind.com http://magicmind.com//jen and use code Jen at checkout. BiOptimizers: Want to try Magnesium Breakthrough? Go to https://bioptimizers.com/jennifercohenand use promo code JC10 at checkout to save 10% off your purchase. Timeline Nutrition: Get 10% off your first order at timeline.com/cohen http://timeline.com/cohen Air Doctor: Go to airdoctorpro.com http://airdoctorpro.com/ and use promo code HUSTLE for up to $300 off and a 3-year warranty on air purifiers. Find more from Jen: Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/ Instagram: @therealjencohen Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagements Find more about Robert Greene: Website: https://powerseductionandwar.com/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Hi guys, this is Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.

• 0:08Jen Cohen?

  Hey friends, you're listening to Fitness Friday on the Habits and Hustle Podcast, where myself and my friends share quick and very actionable advice for you becoming your healthiest self. So stay tuned and let me know how you leveled up.

• 0:31Jen Cohen?

  Do you think that there are people who are just maybe, you said you were always really good at giving advice, that there are people that are more innately just more tuned in and keyed into to that type of thing? Like, I mean, there are people who are good to talk to because they're much more self-aware and they're much more empathetic. And so, there is that element. Like, you naturally, obviously, were that one of those people that it kind of, you came by it honestly, so to speak, right?

• 1:01Speaker 02

  Well, it's a good question of, is it nature or nurture? So, is it something that, is your brain wired that way? There's probably an element to it. So, for instance, it's a known fact through studies, excuse me,

• 1:15Jen Cohen?

  Yeah.

• 1:15Speaker 02

  that women are more naturally empathetic than men. Is there something about the way their brain, the way women's brains are wired? Or is it from the fact that women are socialized to be more attentive to the needs of other people? How do you answer that question? I think probably from my upbringing, from the relationship to my parents, where I wasn't neglected, but I was sort of left alone. And so, my way of surviving in this world was to observe people. You know, that was the only way I could feel secure, was to understand what, so that I wouldn't get hurt. I wouldn't, my parents weren't abusive at all, they were very kind. But, you know, I wasn't getting the attention that I thought I needed. So, I had to turn myself into a very keen observer.

• 2:00Speaker 02

  And my sister is like that as well. So there's something in, I think, the way we were raised that turned us this way. But, you know, I wouldn't write these books if I don't believe it's something you can learn. You know, so because I'm interested in other people, probably for means of protection and defense. So maybe started from something maybe slightly negative. I spent many years observing, right? And when you observe and you spend years doing it, it becomes a skill. It's like I can sense people's energy really quickly now. You know, I have a feel for who they are. I can tell from their body, things you can't even verbalize because I've been doing it for so long.

• 2:42Speaker 02

  So my point in the book is, you know, you may be 30 years old or 40, you know. It's never too late to start because a human being has these innate, incredible innate powers. They call it theory of mind. The ability that we can put ourselves in the shoes of another person and imagine what they're thinking. And they've demonstrated that infants at the age of six months old demonstrate that they have this theory of mind. No other animal comes close to that, although they say maybe dolphins at some point, but. So you have that, you the listener out there, you have that potential. You have those built in tools to use. It's just a matter of using them.

• 3:23Speaker 02

  So getting out in more social situations, getting away from your stupid phone and going out in public and dealing with people and looking at them and observing them and going through exercises that I have in the book. Slowly, you'll get better at it and it's actually a lot of fun. You know, you spend $20 to go to a movie to get inside the world of somebody else. And it's so exciting, oh, this psycho killer, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Other people in your daily life have their stories, have their myths, have their own fantasies. It's just as exciting to try and get into their world as it is to get inside Silence of the Lambs or whatever movie you want to watch. So you have everybody, it's something you can learn.

• 4:03Speaker 02

  It's not just, you're either born that way or you're doomed to not having these powers.

• 4:09Jen Cohen?

  Right, I mean, I guess what I was saying that you already had a natural inclination and interest, right? So it starts with a kernel of interest and curiosity and maybe, and maybe you were naturally better at it than some.

• 4:23Jen Cohen?

  But I think what you're saying, and I tend to agree, is that anything you put attention to, you can get better at.

• 4:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 4:29Jen Cohen?

  But it's being, putting attention towards it.

• 4:31Speaker 02

  Right.

• 4:32Jen Cohen?

  And practicing it over and over again. Um, and you were saying, kind of like, I mean, your, your whole book about, well, not the whole book, but a lot of what your book talks about, um, there are a few, there's a few different things, but is ma, like being self-aware, right? Understanding where, where you came from, because where you came from, it's going to be a good, it's a good point to know why you are the way you are, and having that type of self-awareness. How does someone who doesn't have that natural inclination gain self-awareness?

• 5:07Speaker 02

  Well, you have to read the book.

• 5:09Jen Cohen?

  I hope so.

• 5:11Speaker 02

  That's the main point of the whole book. So, um, you, you need to become a superior observer of other people, but it begins by being able to observe yourself. Um, so, you know, it's, it's a process. There's no like quick answer to that. So the first thing is, I try to show you certain things that you need to be aware of, that I think, one of the points in my book, particularly in mastery, is people don't become good at something unless they like it. And it's very much demonstrated in neuroscience. When the brain is engaged and excited, suddenly we learn at a much faster rate, right? Um, if you're interested in learning French, you'll learn it really quickly as opposed to someone who's forced to learn it. It could take years.

• 5:56Speaker 02

  So, if you want to, if you're motivated to observe people, to look at yourself, then you will start to do it. And so, how do you get motivated? Well, I try to make the point in the book, that the number one thing to understand is you are a stranger to yourself. You do not know who you are. You don't know why you act the way you do. You have no idea what motivates your behavior, why you choose this partner to be with, why you're interested in this product, why you choose this person to be a, a politician you vote for. You don't know, because 95% of what we do Comes from unconscious processes. So if you think about that, it's kind of slightly frightening.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  So, you know, why did I, you know, and this is a very banal example. Why did I buy an Audi when I could have bought 20 different other cars? Well, if I think about it, you know, it probably has to do with the fact of I, I don't see myself as somebody who buys a Mercedes. But probably I've looked at ads that have influenced me. I've seen other people. It wasn't like me consciously deciding this is the car I want. It was influenced by all these unconscious factors. And people who do marketing, they know this very well. That what makes you choose to buy a product is emotional reasons that you're not even aware of. They know all of these unconscious tricks to make you interested in their product. So you walk around, you're like a sleepwalker.

• 7:23Speaker 02

  You don't know why you make the decisions you make. And a very good example is the people you choose for intimate partners in your life. You have really, you can't really explain or verbalize why you're attracted to a person. And oftentimes, if you pay close attention, you notice that there'll be certain patterns in people you choose. And sometimes these patterns aren't very healthy. Not always, but sometimes. Why? Why am I attracted to this person who's sort of a narcissist? It isn't going to be a great person to have a relationship. And then the second person I choose is exactly the same, even though I was hurt by the first person. What's going on? I'm challenging you to look at yourself and say, look in the mirror and say, I don't really know who I am.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  I don't know why I make choices, why I followed this career path, et cetera. So if you're like in a dark room, it's kind of scary. You're groping, you're tripping over things. Well, you're operating in a dark room. You don't know why you're doing things. You're groping around and you're making mistakes. So you have to be motivated to try and look at yourself and understand who you are. By virtue of the fact that your ignorance of who you are is causing negative patterns in your life. We all want to improve ourselves. That's why we go to self-help books. That's why you read my book. But you're never going to improve yourself unless you understand who you are. Unless you look squarely in the eye and admit your flaws, admit the bad patterns in your life. So.

• 8:50Speaker 02

  It's almost like, you know, Alcoholics Anonymous. You have to get down on your knees and admit, "I don't know who I am." And because that's a frightening thought, I have, I'm now motivated to try and make the steps to understand.

• 9:03Jen Cohen?

  Right, and that's why I think the first step is, like you said, like, ask yourself the question. Like, take a pause and say, "Why am I doing what I'm doing? What is the reason behind this?" Like, that initial, I think that even that initial moment of, or that second of pause, makes you maybe retrain your brain to think a little bit, right?

• 9:23Speaker 02

  Definitely.