The 3-Year AI Deadline: How to Stay Relevant (2026-2028) | Daniil and David Liberman

Who actually gets access to AI, and does it stay open to everyone or slowly turn into a privilege for a few? Daniil and David Liberman came on to answer that. They're building a decentralized alternative to Big Tech AI. We got into why every job eventually gets disrupted (and the real timeline), the one-hour-a-day habit that beats Netflix for staying ahead, and how pointing ChatGPT's camera at a broken pipe fixed 3 years of no hot water in their house. Stay to the end for the rapid-fire round: whether today's AI leaders will still lead in five years, and the single most underrated move you can make tomorrow to control your life in ten. Feeling behind on AI? This is the 3-year map. We cover: 1. Is AI overhyped, and the COVID-like moment they expect within 2 years 2. The plumber test: 3 years of no hot water, fixed by ChatGPT's camera 3. Why Dario Amodei owns ~1.5% of Anthropic, and who really controls AI 4. Which jobs get disrupted first, and the timeline (next year vs. 5–10 years) 5. Why "open weight" Chinese models aren't the same as open source 6. The one-hour-a-day habit for surviving the next 3 years. Links: 📌Subscribe to my free newsletter where I go deeper on AI tools, career strategies, and building with AI: ⁠https://siliconvalleygirl.beehiiv.com/subscribe?utm_source=spotify&utm_medium=video&utm_campaign=futureproof-sub&utm_content=TheLibermans https://siliconvalleygirl.beehiiv.com/subscribe?utm_source=spotify&utm_medium=video&utm_campaign=futureproof-sub&utm_content=FeiFeiLi 🔗 Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/siliconvalleygirl/⁠⁠⁠ https://www.instagram.com/siliconvalleygirl/%E2%81%A0 𝕏 : ⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/siliconvalleymm⁠⁠⁠ https://x.com/siliconvalleymm%E2%81%A0 💼 LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marinamogilko⁠⁠⁠ https://www.linkedin.com/in/marinamogilko%E2%81%A0 📌 My Companies & Products: ⁠⁠⁠https://Marinamogilko.co https://marinamogilko.co/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  With Quicken, your finances can stop feeling so complicated. You save, you invest, you keep an eye on spending. But what next? Quicken helps you put the whole picture together and make sense of your options. Connect accounts from more than 14,000 financial institutions and see how all the different pieces of your financial life fit together. Quicken, know what to do next. See how at quicken.com.

• 0:59Speaker 02

  What kind of reality we will see in the future mostly depend on whether big tech companies will have control on who has access to artificial intelligence.

• 1:10Marina Mogilko?

  These are David and Daniel Lieberman, investors and founders who sold their company to Snap. Now they're building Gonka, a decentralized AI network designed to make AI more open and affordable, so anyone can win with it.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  Do you know what is the share of Daria Madeya, founder of Anthropic, creator of Claude, in his own company?

• 1:28Marina Mogilko?

  What is it?

• 1:29Speaker 02

  1.5%.

• 1:30Marina Mogilko?

  Oh, really? People who build it, people who brought their values into this, they are not in control anymore. What should people be doing now to thrive in two or three years? Everything will be disrupted. Every single job will be disrupted. How much time do we have?

• 1:48Marina Mogilko?

  Hello, everyone. Welcome to Silicon Valley Girl. I have my amazing friends today, Lieberman Brothers. They're not only friends who I've known since 2015. They're also my first investors who believed in me. And the whole round that happened in 2021, which became the first ever venture round in a creator, happened because of you guys. Thank you so much. Because of you. Thank you for believing in me. And yeah, it's fascinating to see how much happened after that. You've been in technology circles and building stuff for a while. So I really want to focus on what's going on right now and what's happening with AI.

• 2:30Marina Mogilko?

  And AI has been the most discussed technological revolution in the past two years. But what I'm noticing, and I'm sure a lot of people who are watching this will agree that we're talking a lot about AI. And obviously, it's changing like for coders, because a lot of people generate eighty percent of their code, maybe more. But when you take an ordinary person, yes, the search is better now, the productivity is maybe up. But there hasn't been a life-changing event for humanity yet. So do you think AI is overhyped?

• 3:00Speaker 04

  I would start start with like contradicting to what you said, the life changed. Because people started trusting one source of information like in the chat, like what is this? What is that? And they don't check multiple sources as they used to with the internet. And this is something pivotal, honestly, already. Therefore, like we will have some consequences about that already from this point. When was the last time you were actually doing your research in Google? Like not through the chat G P T or other platform with agents doing all the swarming research for you and stuff? Like this changed, we somehow started trusting this technology, which not always is correct.

• 3:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. What kind of reality we will see in the future mostly depend on whether someone will be able to get access to artificial intelligence. If artificial intelligence will be freely accessible by every human on earth. If it will become actually commodity when it's like cheap, as cheap as possible. Then each of us for sure will use AI to increase our productivity. But definitely in other scenarios possible, if big tech firms will be able to get the access and decide who can have the access or not.

• 4:21Speaker 04

  I'll give you an example. Recently asked us about like, what about the plumbers? Will they be actually replaced with the robots or like with AI? What what's gonna happen there? How how can AI actually make innovation in there? In our house, when we where we moved three years ago. For this past three years, we had the problem with hot water. And we were complaining to the landlord. He called for the plumber several times. They came there, he's like, oh, you need to replace the entire heating system. It's gonna be very expensive. And then at some point, we basically pointed the chat G P T through the camera into the piping system. It's like, what's wrong here?

• 5:00Speaker 04

  And and the chat said like, looks like it's missing one small part here, like a pipe, which will actually close the loop here and blah blah blah. So we started discussing with this problem with the plumbers. After three years, we now have instant hot water with just one.

• 5:19Marina Mogilko?

  But you still needed physical labor, yes?

• 5:21Speaker 04

  Absolutely, but like, imagine that it's it's not us who should convince the plumber that they should do this job. But the AI in their own earpiece, which is like, looks like there is this stuff missing there. And they fixed everything. The first time when we called them three years ago.

• 5:37Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 5:38Speaker 04

  And they were like, oh, best guys ever, five stars, you fixed the problem.

• 5:41Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 5:42Speaker 04

  Hooray. Instead, we were suffering for three years before actually AI came in.

• 5:46Marina Mogilko?

  Do you see any jobs completely being disrupted when we don't need those people at all?

• 5:51Speaker 04

  Like, I mean, drivers, like the cars will be driving themselves, but the people inside of the car can still be there. I mean, like for services, safety, whatever.

• 6:00Speaker 02

  This is actually a good example of the industry, uh, which had a chance to

• 6:10Speaker 04

  Adapt.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  Gradually adapt. If all the drivers will see the future, the future will be.

• 6:17Speaker 04

  Definitely self-driving.

• 6:18Speaker 02

  Self-driving.

• 6:19Marina Mogilko?

  Mm hmm.

• 6:19Speaker 02

  Uh, in if they would invest in joining forces together, in building the future together. Instead, when people, they're reluctant to participate in the innovation.

• 6:33Speaker 04

  In the change.

• 6:34Speaker 02

  When they uh use innovations in the passive form, when they they just consumers, they they don't understand that they actually can also contribute. Eventually, fifteen years later. Their profession can be disrupted.

• 6:49Marina Mogilko?

  There's no such job.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  So actually, for every profession, there will be enough time to adapt. If, if you actually see that the future is coming.

• 6:58Speaker 04

  Like clearly accept.

• 7:01Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 7:01Speaker 04

  Everything will be disrupted. Every single job will be disrupted.

• 7:05Marina Mogilko?

  How much time do we have?

• 7:06Speaker 04

  It depends on what the profession.

• 7:07Speaker 02

  For some profession.

• 7:08Speaker 04

  For some profession, it's like next year. For some profession is maybe in half a year from now. For some professions, it will take five to 10 years because the robots are first going to be in the factories. Then it's going to be there and then it's going to be there. A specific profession will require more time for the physical world to adapt. There is a lot of stuff, like physical world is not moving as software. That's why software engineers was disrupted first because it's software.

• 7:35Marina Mogilko?

  Do you think in the next two or three years, we're going to see an event that is directed by AI? And it's going to change lives for everyone? Because again, for example, going to, I don't know, my mom's example, right? She uses AI to search. Her life hasn't really been affected with AI. What do you think the timeline is when everyone experiences something COVID like? When they're like, oh, my God.

• 7:56Speaker 04

  Honestly, in the next two years, probably we'll experience several events like that. We will see a lot of breakthroughs, like an eye-opening breakthroughs in biotech. Like understanding genome and a lot of chemistry as well, new materials. Like we will see a lot, mind blowing, something which we consider impossible before events within the next two years. In the software engineering itself, I think that we will see the entire operating systems and coding languages to be rewritten and like written from the scratch, something which we're actually changing everything we understood before. It will happen likely in the next couple of years.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  For sure, in the coming year or so, we will get through several tipping points where there is no way back. It will be already hard to influence where this progress will lead us.

• 8:54Marina Mogilko?

  Like what do you have any examples?

• 8:56Speaker 02

  So for example, whether big tech companies will have control on who has access. So now it still can be changed and consumers can affect that, consumers can demand rules.

• 9:12Speaker 00

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• 9:42Speaker 05

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• 10:11Speaker 04

  The question is like whether market defines the access to the technology or a handful of people.

• 10:18Marina Mogilko?

  But if they all become publicly traded, then it's up for stakeholders.

• 10:22Speaker 04

  This is the most interesting conversation. Who are the stakeholders then?

• 10:25Speaker 02

  Yes, so one of the subjects which is not really discussed right now is that, you're right, all of these companies, they are...

• 10:34Speaker 04

  Publicly traded?

• 10:35Speaker 02

  They will become publicly traded. Who will control these companies then? For example, do you know what is the share of Daria Madea, founder of Anthropic, creator of Claude? In his own company? What is the share?

• 10:49Marina Mogilko?

  What is it? I know Google owns a lot.

• 10:52Speaker 02

  1.5%.

• 10:53Marina Mogilko?

  Oh, really?

• 10:55Speaker 02

  So when you understand that it's just 1.5%, you understand that those people...

• 10:59Speaker 04

  People who build it? People who brought their values into this? They are not in control anymore.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  Who then in control? Then you find some, it's called a long-term trust or something like that. And you see people in this trust and you won't recognize anyone on this list.

• 11:20Marina Mogilko?

  Why would those people who control? Those organizations decide to stop or pause access.

• 11:26Speaker 04

  Because if you create artificial scarcity, you can increase price for for as long as you want.

• 11:33Marina Mogilko?

  But then an open model, China releases an open model and people.

• 11:35Speaker 04

  But China is not releasing open models. Chinese doing the the the old corporate trick, except they're doing this on like on the government level. They lure you with a semi open sourceness because none of their model is actually open source. They're open weight, so no one can repeat. And then when the next version is released, they can easily not open weighted. Just like that, and no one will be able to even continue or do anything with this.

• 12:03Speaker 02

  It's not theoretical. Uh, you can see how most of the US-based companies, they used to have open models.

• 12:10Marina Mogilko?

  Mm hmm.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  Now, not anymore.

• 12:12Marina Mogilko?

  None. Yeah, it's so interesting when you see like.

• 12:15Speaker 04

  The Chinese model start to be not open from the very first day of the model release. They put it on the market for a month or two or three, only accessible from their own servers. And then they still play with the open weight uh uh game. Because what they play, they want for as many people in the world as possible to use their models to actually create the competition to the uh uh uh American models. And then basically lure everyone to use their servers, not open weight on your own server, but our servers in China with Chinese data centers and Chinese chips.

• 12:51Speaker 02

  For any tech organization which sells digital products. The first thing that they need to acquire users. As soon as they acquire users, then uh they usually change the rules. Remember, like in two thousand three, two thousand four, still Google had.

• 13:10Speaker 04

  Ads.

• 13:11Speaker 02

  A pro- promise that ads will never be in the main feed. It's on, we will be on the side.

• 13:18Marina Mogilko?

  But they're still at the top and they're highlighted ads, so they're not in the search, but like on top of the search.

• 13:25Speaker 02

  But the promise was that it will never be in the main feed. Then the rules changed and that's what we see in many cases.

• 13:35Marina Mogilko?

  Because it's so, it's kind of easy, not very easy, but it's kind of easy to move from one model to another. We still have competition on the market. We have Google, Claude, ChatGPT, right? And from my own experience, I switch maybe like every two weeks. Yes, with now learned long-term memory that goes across all your chats is becoming harder. But if one model decides to ten X their price, I can easily switch. Do you think it's not going to be the case?

• 14:05Speaker 04

  But look at then what is also happening in parallel with this luxury of change between models. Tools which used to be independent for coding like Cursor or Figma for design. Those tools are being steadily integrated into the main product or similar products of the frontier models themselves.

• 14:27Marina Mogilko?

  For your chat window.

• 14:28Speaker 04

  Everything you use, from the calendar to the email, to documentation, to picture generation, to music listening, to like buying products. As soon as all of this is already in one ecosystem, that's when it's going to be much, much complicated, much more complicated for you to change between the models, just because all of your ecosystem will be in one.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  So from, from this perspective, still, you're right that existence of all of these independent companies, it helps.

• 15:02Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah, they prevent authoritarian regimes inside the AI companies. Paint me this worst case scenario. Is it one company?

• 15:11Speaker 04

  No, it doesn't have to be one company.

• 15:13Marina Mogilko?

  Or three companies coordinating their efforts.

• 15:15Speaker 04

  Coordinating their efforts. Like Google, Microsoft and Amazon today combined is sixty-five to seventy percent of global compute.

• 15:26Speaker 04

  Cloud compute.

• 15:27Marina Mogilko?

  So they basically own seventy percent of our future.

• 15:29Speaker 04

  When we're talking about AI.

• 15:31Marina Mogilko?

  It's everything.

• 15:31Speaker 04

  Now it's everything. It will disrupt every single industry over the course of next five years.

• 15:36Speaker 02

  Let me give you like two versions of the future. In each version, three of us increased productivity four times. In one version of the future, this productivity increased because of this.

• 15:51Speaker 04

  Three corporations.

• 15:52Speaker 02

  Three corporations. What they can easily do is to get the entire rows of this margins by increasing the prices of their AI systems. If your productivity, my productivity depends on whether we have access to those models or not, they can set any price.

• 16:15Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 16:16Speaker 02

  And that's what we experienced recently. Models haven't become cheaper. Opposite to that, there is version of the future when access guaranteed and we have it as cheap as possible. In this case, each of us become four times more productive. We produce four times more goods.

• 16:35Speaker 04

  And the only question is gonna be whether we need that much or we will work less.

• 16:39Marina Mogilko?

  Oh, we adapt to.

• 16:41Speaker 04

  We will adapt and we'll have more and more and more. Like, it's just like, details of every single product will be more details, better quality, all of that. Maybe like, our houses will be bigger. It's gonna be easier and faster to build them.

• 16:55Marina Mogilko?

  Or we'll have more inside our houses, like with cars.

• 16:57Speaker 04

  We'll have more stuff inside our houses. Our house finally will become smart houses. The fridge which actually buys its own grocery.

• 17:04Marina Mogilko?

  The pipe that fixes itself, yeah.

• 17:05Speaker 04

  The pipe that fixes itself, all this stuff. The promised future of the IOT, like, likely see some kind of a combination of that. Like, the worst case scenario is not going to look like abruptly everything is stolen. The worst case scenario will look like one by one, industry by industry, absorbed by this technology. Like, big groceries will be replaced with online delivery, which will be then give more jobs at some specific period of time. But then less as soon as people will be replaced with robots as well. So like there will be spike of additional small businesses and additional jobs in in some areas, but then decline as well.

• 17:48Speaker 04

  So it's not going to look like, oh, we're going to hell. Something which we are not going to notice, our freedom will be taken away.

• 17:56Marina Mogilko?

  Can you talk more about the loss of freedom? Because the analog situation that I see here, social media, right? We all have access to these amazing videos, but then some people can't stop consumption and they just spend their days scrolling and fake information is affecting how they make decisions. Do you think it's going to be worse with AI?

• 18:15Speaker 04

  I started with this decision making and your research. If you actually ask the question, get the singular answer to this. The source of this information, if it's controlled, defines what you think about the reality around you.

• 18:30Marina Mogilko?

  That that's what we're talking with some of my friends because all of our AIs gave us advice to work less. We're like, are they coordinating? Like, what's going on?

• 18:41Speaker 02

  We know how powerful narratives are. It's not because of AI in general, it's a part of human nature. How storytelling affects us.

• 18:53Speaker 04

  The question is like, who's behind it? And what's the purpose of people who provide users?

• 18:59Marina Mogilko?

  Does it have to be regulated then? Do you think the government should step in with like all the declarations that we have that we agreed on together? As you know, Western world, should that be the guidance for AI?

• 19:12Speaker 04

  The government's already doing this?

• 19:14Marina Mogilko?

  Well, in the US, I think it's hands off approach.

• 19:17Speaker 02

  If you listen all the current leaders of AI industry, they all want the industry to be regulated. We are not so fond of governments in general. We believe that some sort of regulation is nice, but it will be really hard to prevent governments to abuse this power as well.

• 19:46Speaker 02

  We really like being in United States because of how much freedom people have, how much a government is actually decentralized. Not everything is decided on federal level. Many things decided on state level or even municipal level. At the same time, when we talk about EA regulations, likely it will be federal levels. So not much freedom out there. So we are not as

• 20:16Speaker 04

  Optimistic.

• 20:17Speaker 02

  Optimistic about regulations where they will take us. But at the same time, we are quite believers in consumer power, how consumers can change, how all these companies behave, how they can demand, what should be right. And actually, even just being vocal about what they want to have.

• 20:44Marina Mogilko?

  But I'm thinking about OpenAI Anthropic and the defense situation. Yeah, people cancel those structures. Actually, we see, I don't know how much that affected what's going on internally.

• 20:57Speaker 04

  Somewhat affected, clearly somewhat affected. It's also, it affects employees of these companies as well. Because this time, it's all about the researchers.

• 21:09Marina Mogilko?

  Oh, yeah.

• 21:10Speaker 04

  The only successful AI labs are those which manage to gather the brilliant minds of the AI researchers, not even engineers, but AI researchers. Because the engineering part is now done by AI itself. So like you need to actually think about this rather than code.

• 21:27Speaker 02

  We saw multiple times how those researchers left some organizations because of the

• 21:33Speaker 04

  Disagreement.

• 21:34Speaker 02

  Disagreement with the founders, yeah. So I do believe that right now, it's still, consumers have quite a big power. It won't be like that in a couple of years even. So we don't have Yes, I'm pretty sure that the power of these organizations will only

• 21:54Speaker 04

  Increase.

• 21:54Speaker 02

  Increase in our dependence on particular models, in our dependence on having access to the latest model.

• 22:04Speaker 02

  Will only increase over time and I think that's probably the most urgency in the process right now.

• 22:10Marina Mogilko?

  What can we do about it?

• 22:12Speaker 02

  We can be vocal, we can support every independent project. We do believe that decentralization will play significant role. When people will build AI not based on data centers, but on the community of people who join in forces together.

• 22:33Speaker 04

  It's happening step by step. So like several companies are right now providing the service of actually building some micro data center in your house or like it's agreed of micro data centers. When when it's less about like a centralized control of a specific corporation. I mean, not necessarily these particular companies are the ones which will lead to this sort of decentralization. But it happened with the power, with the like disconnecting from the grid, having the having the solar panels and the batteries actually providing all of the electricity at home. This is happening with increasing speed now as as the battery technologies,

• 23:17Speaker 04

  the solar panel technologies are getting cheaper, cheaper and more efficient. Similar is actually boiling in a lot of people's mind on how do we decentralize a lot of this? And there is also a chance that because of significant centralization, there are some additional physical barriers, like enough of electricity for such large data centers. Well, if you actually decentralizes home by home with with micro data centers, then every single house solar panel with a battery actually can power the massive infrastructure of of the AI cloud data center.

• 23:56Speaker 04

  So participating in projects like this, like even just browsing and searching and researching on what's possible and what's going on in there. And then jumping on to being early adapters of technologies like this, this will actually help a lot. In creating a pressing alternative, like the alternative which not necessarily will become bigger than the large corporations themselves, but will become visible and annoying enough for the large corporations to adapt and change and be less monopolistic. The trick is AI itself, as soon as it's achieving, will achieve soon, like in a year from now likely.

• 24:41Speaker 04

  A certain level of precision and false tolerance and mistake tolerance that will be making decisions more uncorruptible, more immutable than people themselves, more less biased, like all of this. Like, we can see now how the call centers industry has been disrupted by AI. Like, it's sort of invisible for majority of people because the call centers are somewhere there, like in in Asia, somewhere far away. It's been significantly disrupted. We we know several multi-billion dollar companies and smaller businesses, which are right now completely switching to the AI call centers.

• 25:21Speaker 04

  Moreover, it's more efficient. So like, friend of ours, their their banking system, they give them loans and they used to have the collector's call center. Like, people would call you and say like, hey, we can help you to restructure your debt. And usually the people in the bad situation, when they already under the pressure of their actual life situation, plus the bank is calling and they're demanding the money, they are not quite willing to actually even even reply to the phone call. So what they managed to do for themselves, they completely replaced the actual real human beings on the other side of the phone. Why? Because the AI happened to be more empathetic. They designed it to be more empathetic.

• 26:06Speaker 04

  The AI getting into the human being situation much deeper and help the human being to actually get out of the shitty situation of owning money to the bank.

• 26:17Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 26:47Speaker 01

  With Quicken, your finances can stop feeling so complicated. You save, you invest, you keep an eye on spending. But what next? Quicken helps you put the whole picture together and make sense of your options. Connect accounts from more than 14,000 financial institutions and see how all the different pieces of your financial life fit together. Quicken, know what to do next. See how at quicken.com.

• 27:15Marina Mogilko?

  And they laid off the agency that they used to work with, the call center?

• 27:18Speaker 04

  India, somewhere like Philippines, like a lot of this somewhere outside. So that's why we probably don't see this. We don't feel this change, but there is a lot of moving into the call centers because of this, as I said, an empathy. It's a human being quality to be empathetic, but AI can be much more empathetic and AI can be much more truthful. And as soon as we're getting to this level, the governmental services logically should be AI driven, a lot of it. And there will be a huge resistance from the very government itself to be replaced, to be augmented, to be, to become uncorruptible.

• 28:01Speaker 04

  And that's where we can see that there will be tension.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  If you want to create this uncorruptible bureaucracy, it's quite important that this type of artificial intelligence shouldn't be controlled by anyone.

• 28:17Speaker 04

  Should not be centralized and controlled.

• 28:19Speaker 02

  And none of us want the future bureaucracy to be controlled by a corporation.

• 28:26Marina Mogilko?

  Which is, which won't happen, right? Already like, because these corporations exist, do you think there is a chance that there is a world where it's decentralized?

• 28:34Speaker 04

  But remember what was with the Bitcoin? The financial world was the most powerful, the Wall Street and the

• 28:41Speaker 02

  Central banks.

• 28:41Speaker 04

  Central banks of the world. No one could have challenged them. And then? Bitcoin just happened. Yes, it started like a little bit early, but it was like an invisible uh a a a toy.

• 28:54Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 28:54Speaker 04

  But right now it's a rails of financial world. No one can affect the re- records in the ledger.

• 29:01Speaker 02

  For example, privacy and encryption in messengers. The the the big players didn't want encryption.

• 29:09Marina Mogilko?

  And child care came.

• 29:10Speaker 02

  But then smaller players.

• 29:12Speaker 04

  Signal telegram.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  They all had to adopt it and they all had to uh have it. And this is an example of uh consumers demanding.

• 29:22Speaker 04

  At some point, there will no be difference for for majority of the consumers, whether it's Oppos or G P T five or something which they don't even understand the name of it, but they prefer.

• 29:34Marina Mogilko?

  For a lot of people, it's already the case.

• 29:35Speaker 04

  Exactly, but they prefer to use it because of the aspects which we're saying. Some people will step by step, like it like it was with Bitcoin. It started with Satoshi himself, then ten people, then twenty, then a hundred, then a thousand. Now it's hundreds of millions of people actually holding the Bitcoin worldwide.

• 29:53Marina Mogilko?

  But Satoshi, uh he remains unknown to public. I know you're building something in decentralized A I and you're going to podcasts. Do you have any fears from big corporations?

• 30:06Speaker 04

  Of us disappearing?

• 30:07Marina Mogilko?

  Uh, no, like, cause you're entering a huge market and you're trying to disrupt and build a competitor.

• 30:14Speaker 04

  We are not afraid.

• 30:16Speaker 02

  You know, with uh Bitcoin, the the the privacy of the owner was part of the pitch.

• 30:23Marina Mogilko?

  Mm hmm.

• 30:24Speaker 02

  So i- it was a an important aspect uh of the service which uh Bitcoin provided. Uh with A I systems, uh I don't think that uh uh that portion is important. Similar with Ethereum, the founder of Ethereum uh is out there.

• 30:44Marina Mogilko?

  Out there in public, yeah.

• 30:46Speaker 02

  Uh, no.

• 30:46Speaker 04

  With A I's will be, it will be more like with uh messengers. You actually want people to find your name there because you want to get connected with people.

• 30:56Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 30:56Speaker 04

  So you want businesses and individuals to be identified, verified inside of the world of AI. Honestly, that's what we actually all should want, that every participant of the future network of AI is verified and identified, just because there will be so many of the fake generated for the scam purpose or just like entertainment purpose. It doesn't really matter why, but the internet is getting trashed with a lot of unchecked information.

• 31:33Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah, but at the same time, like, you know, World ID, right? People are so like, some people love it, some people absolutely say, no, never will I provide my redness can.

• 31:46Speaker 04

  But because the trick is, it's like.

• 31:47Marina Mogilko?

  It's a private, it's a private company.

• 31:48Speaker 04

  It's a private company. Moreover.

• 31:50Marina Mogilko?

  Do you think when it's decentralized, more people will be willing to do that?

• 31:54Speaker 02

  If, if you can demonstrate in open source manner, that no one can have access to this data, for sure. That the problem with World ID is that it's a, it's a black box. And this black box is controlled by one company. No one know what is inside of this eyeball and things like that. So that's what scares people. For sure, in the world we are entering, this all will be important subjects to discuss. And I hope that people will be more educated about the abundance, which AI can bring.

• 32:35Speaker 02

  At the same time, what other risks and how we can mitigate them with that type of change. It's quite new, you know, it's actually one of the important things that it is first technology.

• 32:50Speaker 02

  Which speaks our language. And and this it did like affect us all because all of the

• 32:58Speaker 04

  Previous.

• 32:59Speaker 02

  Previous protections, psychological protections, barriers which we had, this system can overcome because because now it's like human being because it speaks our language. But at the same time, it's greatest opportunity because there is no barrier. Even when you software engineer, you only talk with those systems.

• 33:24Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 33:25Speaker 04

  You stop coding, like you stop writing.

• 33:26Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah, where we're talking to our computers.

• 33:28Speaker 02

  Um. So because of that, I think that this also the greatest opportunity for equality because everyone.

• 33:37Speaker 04

  Well, if if everyone have equal access to this technology, then everyone can achieve their their their highest potential.

• 33:48Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 33:48Speaker 04

  In the world where people will be losing jobs. If you can come back home saying I'm unemployed now and then AI will tell you what next you can do and you can just like choose.

• 33:57Marina Mogilko?

  Vibe code a new startup.

• 33:59Speaker 04

  Vibe code, like not not not necessarily everyone is going to be a startup. But at the same time, I personally believe that we will see the explosion of smaller businesses. Like we will see the decorporativization of industries if we have equal access to AI. The same way, uh, social media affected small businesses in terms of like now anyone can start a business online and sell whatever like clothes, jewelry, cosmetics, like whatever it is, products for for docs, for keys. Like through this new channel, more small businesses happen to be successful.

• 34:40Speaker 04

  We will see that tenfold with AI if access is not limited.

• 34:46Marina Mogilko?

  If access is not limited, what should people be doing now to thrive in two or three years?

• 34:52Speaker 02

  First of all, you you definitely.

• 34:56Speaker 02

  I need to at least try to adapt these tools. You know, in our bubble, in our bubble, everyone tried to use agents.

• 35:05Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 35:06Speaker 02

  But in reality, it's just.

• 35:07Speaker 04

  It's just a couple of million people in the entire world who actually.

• 35:12Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 35:12Speaker 02

  Um, so people should be much more open to educate themselves and to implement this in their current workflows, in the way how they.

• 35:24Speaker 04

  Plan their days, do their job, do their household planning, like all of this.

• 35:29Speaker 02

  This is quite an important thing. I, I remember that when we used to have a game development studio, we hired an artist. He didn't have so much of the.

• 35:44Speaker 04

  Portfolio.

• 35:45Speaker 02

  Portfolio at that moment. I remember it was just a couple of pictures, but they impressed us quite a bit. So, so we hired.

• 35:53Speaker 04

  The talent was clearly there.

• 35:55Speaker 02

  In all of our other artists had much greater experience at that moment. But this guy, every time when new tool appeared, he wasn't resisting, but just.

• 36:10Speaker 04

  Jump on it.

• 36:11Speaker 02

  Jump in and use it.

• 36:11Speaker 04

  Try use it, try to understand what's, what's the best trick he can get out of this.

• 36:16Speaker 02

  Uh, and in just a couple of years, we got a message from him that he got a proposal from Blizzard.

• 36:25Speaker 04

  The top game development studio in the world at the time.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  Uh, and he will not refuse it. And, and for us, it was for sure, he will want to work in this company, especially in the cinematic division. When you do this beautiful movie shots. And so he got there and like in that couple of years.

• 36:43Speaker 04

  It never stopped.

• 36:43Speaker 02

  Uh.

• 36:44Speaker 04

  He advanced himself, advanced himself into robotics, into this, into that. Like as soon as you could consume the change.

• 36:54Speaker 04

  Uh, the new.

• 36:55Marina Mogilko?

  It fuels you.

• 36:56Speaker 04

  Accept, it fuels you in into continue and never stopping.

• 37:00Speaker 02

  I know that for us, for some is a little bit scary to use these tools. Or when they are new, they're a little bit sloppy.

• 37:10Speaker 04

  But just make it a habit to spend at least an hour a day. Instead of watching Netflix or browsing Instagram to actually see what what you can do. To deploy.

• 37:24Speaker 02

  And so we.

• 37:25Speaker 04

  Research.

• 37:25Speaker 02

  We recently found ourselves with several groups of friends. Doing hackathons at house, at a dinner, you know? It's a culture when you just sit down and you have one hour to build some stuff.

• 37:39Speaker 04

  It's important to say it's not technical people.

• 37:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So we did it multiple times and so fun. So fun like we, what you can build just in one hour. And you can have it on your phone immediately and you all can try and you all can laugh.

• 37:56Speaker 04

  Not necessarily it is going to be useful, but the fact that you have this physical experience of achieving this in just one hour. With a group of your friends who actually never had experience of building software before. It changes the perspective. So like our advice would be just use the AI.

• 38:17Marina Mogilko?

  I also write a newsletter where I go deeper on AI tools that I use, career strategies, and things I can't fit into a 60 minute podcast. It's free. Link is in the description. Okay, I could talk about this for another hour. I have a blitz to wrap up with. So it's like a short answer. Will AI be able to do most intellectual work for humans in three years?

• 38:43Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 38:46Marina Mogilko?

  If it does, what is left for humans?

• 38:49Speaker 04

  The same.

• 38:50Speaker 02

  Creativity.

• 38:51Speaker 04

  Creativity collaboration.

• 38:52Speaker 02

  To make hard decisions in your life, what you want to have in your life. This is would be quite important. In world of abundance is actually will be a quite complex task.

• 39:04Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 39:04Speaker 02

  To decide what exactly, how you want to live your life.

• 39:06Marina Mogilko?

  Cause you have everything, yeah. Will AI create more jobs than it destroys?

• 39:10Speaker 04

  The nature of jobs might change, but it might change in a much longer um horizon. I believe AI first will create a lot of new jobs. And then the idea of job might might change and dissipate in ten fifteen years from now. Maybe thirty years, like this is a longer horizon.

• 39:32Marina Mogilko?

  Will today's market leaders still be leading five years from now? Or will we have some emergent player?

• 39:38Speaker 02

  Likely. So, look, uh, Anthropic haven't existed.

• 39:44Speaker 04

  Three years, four years, four years ago, like not in your ever.

• 39:47Speaker 02

  If you look, if you look all the incumbents, uh, all the big companies we had before, all of them lost the AI game. Maybe Google still have some place, uh, but uh, all the rest, they actually weren't successful. Every time when someone uh point out that all uh this big company uh will be competitor to you. Uh, I, I, I, I don't take it seriously because big companies, they are really slow. Uh, and uh, smaller players, they have uh much more chances to actually build something.

• 40:21Speaker 04

  So, yes, we will see a lot of new. Someone new, likely those who we see right now might change a little bit in terms of like murders, acquisitions, like becoming one, some of them are just disappearing and losing the competition to the rest. But there will still be the same ten companies of the Silicon Valley, which are trillion, each trillion dollar company, multi trillion dollar company uh in three, five, ten years from now. Likely they're not going to go away. Will something new happen for sure?

• 40:55Marina Mogilko?

  Okay.

• 40:55Speaker 04

  Totally.

• 40:56Marina Mogilko?

  Okay. Will humanity choose to limit AI development or will we keep building at full speed?

• 41:01Speaker 02

  I think that uh there is no much uh way to limit the AI development. Uh, but at the same time, the limiting factor is already right now.

• 41:16Speaker 02

  Hardware, uh, chip manufacturing. And hardware is much slower in the way it develops. So already we'll see a slowdown of development of EA in the nearest future. But at the same time.

• 41:37Speaker 04

  Yet likely tenfold in the next five years.

• 41:40Marina Mogilko?

  Okay. And the last question, I think I know the answer, but what's the most underrated move someone could make tomorrow to have more control over their life in 10 years?

• 41:49Speaker 04

  Love yourself.

• 41:51Speaker 02

  Invest time in your development for sure. It always was a good advice. Currently, it's actually much more important.

• 42:00Speaker 04

  No, no, it's like.

• 42:01Speaker 02

  The world is changing.

• 42:02Marina Mogilko?

  Yeah.

• 42:02Speaker 02

  Uh, the world is changing and without actually educating yourself, you're losing a lot of opportunities.

• 42:11Marina Mogilko?

  I thought you were gonna say run a little data center.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  This is what I'm saying, it's just in different words.

• 42:19Marina Mogilko?

  Thank you so much, guys. Thank you for being modern age philosophers and also for building something that's really exciting for this new age. Thank you.

• 42:28Speaker 02

  Thank you for this.

• 42:30Speaker 05

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