Question Time: Pay off my Student Loan with a 0% card? Shift kids cash ISA to shares? Success: ‘Saved £500 on breakdown cover!’

In this episode, Martin is back answering your latest money dilemmas with a few surprises along the way. Should you pay off your student loan using a 0% credit card? Martin breaks down the risks, the maths, and who should and shouldn’t be looking to pay off their student loan early. Energy is in focus as a listener ask: is the Octopus Tracker tariff still a good idea in today’s volatile market? Martin explains who it works for—and who should steer clear. A question on whether to move a child’s Junior Cash ISA into a Stocks & Shares ISA. Martin helps you to decide what’s right for your child’s future. We also celebrate a listener win: how one savvy saver managed to cut £500 off their breakdown cover—and what you can learn from it. Plus, a glimpse behind the scenes: find out what Martin Lewis’s monthly step record is (it’s higher than you might expect), and producer Simon reveals the surprising mix of jobs he’s had before joining the team. If you want to ask Martin a question, you now can! His Question Time podcast lets you ask Martin absolutely anything and everything (within reason!) – so if you’ve always wanted to know his favourite ice cream flavour, if he’s ever pondered the meaning of life, or have a very complicated question about your personal finances, email it to [email protected] mailto:[email protected].

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:38Martin Lewis?

  I should just give a couple of quick ticks on haggling. It seems a good move for me as long as the rate is very close to being the best buy.

• 0:45Speaker 03

  Locking money away so that they don't have access to it is very much more where I would stand.

• 0:50Martin Lewis?

  If this is a new and a different way for you to be, don't feel you have to go the whole way at the start. And now, from the ridiculous to the ridiculous.

• 0:59Martin Lewis?

  Hello and welcome to the cunningly named The Martin Lewis Podcast. I do wonder what that's going to be about. And this is our Question Time episode, where you, our ESQ's extra savvy questioners, get to ask me your questions on absolutely anything and everything, open brackets, within reason. And if you come on as a caller, you even get a badge. This week, you asked me, should I pay off my student loan with a 0% credit card? Is the Octopus Energy Tracker still a good idea? Is it time to move my kid's junior cash ISA into a junior shares ISA? Then we have a success. One caller tells us how he saved £500 on his breakdown cover. All that and far more. Play the theme tune.

• 2:00Martin Lewis?

  Hello and welcome to our Question Time podcast where you get to ask me anything and everything, open brackets, within reason, close brackets. And joining me, in charge of today's questions, is of course, podcast producer Simon PPS. How are you doing?

• 2:16Speaker 04

  I am excellent. I'm fizzing with excitement. We're recording this the day that the Football World Cup starts. I love the World Cup. I love major tournaments. After this, I'm editing the podcast. I'm going home. My wife's cooking Mexican food because Mexico are playing tonight. It's a very exciting time.

• 2:32Martin Lewis?

  Is she going to be cooking a different cuisine for every match each evening? Can she keep that up?

• 2:38Speaker 04

  Well, she's an excellent cook.

• 2:39Martin Lewis?

  What do they cook in curaçao? Does she know? How's she going to do that?

• 2:43Speaker 04

  Look, challenge accepted. Hopefully, I'll report back what Blinder has made over the next six weeks.

• 2:48Martin Lewis?

  Maybe, Simon, you could make the curaçao food.

• 2:50Speaker 04

  Well, but that would be a disappointment for my entire family.

• 2:56Speaker 04

  She is a far superior cook to me.

• 2:58Martin Lewis?

  Yeah, well, I know you're very, very sporty. So the World Cup, I mean, you do commentating, don't you? Shall we let people in secret? You do a bit of commentating, don't you, on the side?

• 3:04Speaker 04

  Oh, there is no beginning to my talents. It's not just podcasting that I struggle with. Yeah. Now I do some football commentating. I'm doing some cricket producing over the next month.

• 3:13Martin Lewis?

  Oh, you'll love that.

• 3:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. There's a Women's T20 World Cup happening in England at the moment. It's all very exciting.

• 3:19Martin Lewis?

  Simon and I are standing in the background. We are offering messaging, especially about the cricket, right? Because I don't have that many friends who are into the cricket. So I'm often messaging Simon and saying, did you see that? I mean, we had it because we were in pod last week against New Zealand, when it was England, New Zealand. So anyway, enough of all of that type of stuff. I hope you've got a PPS for me at the end of the show. This is probably your last one for a while, isn't it? Because Matt's back next week.

• 3:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, I've loved my little run of doing it. But yeah, yeah, we're back to the normal routine, I think, from next week.

• 3:46Martin Lewis?

  And I shall be seeing you on the Big Issues podcast.

• 3:52Martin Lewis?

  Right, let's start the show. What's your first question?

• 3:55Speaker 04

  Well, actually, we've got our first question that's really interesting in from Tom in Sheffield. He wants to know about paying off his student loan. "Hi Martin and Matt, I'm on track to pay off my student loan in full before the term ends. I started university in 2007. Given the interest currently being added to the balance, would taking out a 0% credit card to pay it off now and then repay the card monthly be possible? Thanks for all the advice and help over the years you have given everyone. Tom from Sheffield."

• 4:25Martin Lewis?

  What an interesting question. What I need to state, and this is really important at the start, I am going to answer this question for Tom's very specific circumstance. So he's on a Plan One loan. Most of you listening will not be on a Plan One loan, which has a different interest rate to Plan Two and has different repayment thresholds to Plan Five. And most importantly, Tom, we know is going to clear his loan, which changes the entire logic. And not only is Tom going to clear his loan, but by the way he's written it, I'm assuming he's going to clear it within the next year or two, so there isn't much left. Otherwise, we'd have to talk about the risk that he might lose his job, have a lower salary and therefore not going to be paying it. I'm going to ignore that for this.

• 5:10Martin Lewis?

  Many people, especially on Plan Two and Plan Five, will not clear their loan in full before it wipes, which is an entirely different way of thinking and an entirely different way of behaving. So don't think that this applies to you if you're in those circumstances. So on a base level, I have to first assume that Tom does not have any other debts that are more expensive than his student loan. The Plan One student loan is set at the rate of inflation, so for this year is at 3.2%. So if you had any other debts, like a mortgage or a credit card or a loan that were more expensive than 3.2%, you would be better off thinking about clearing those ahead of clearing your own student loan. The second thing I would say is when you're within two years from clearing your student loan,

• 5:56Martin Lewis?

  you can have it so that you no longer pay it via the payroll. You can pay it off via direct debit, which makes things easier because if you pay it via the payroll, it's coming out like tax. Then what often happens is you keep paying it off once you've cleared it and then you have to get that money back. So it's important to move it in that way. So let's get into the specifics. The first point is you cannot pay the student loan company with a credit card. Now, the student loan company says it wouldn't be responsible for them to allow a customer to pay off a debt by taking on another debt. And I think for broad people, especially those who aren't financially savvy, that's absolutely right. But for those who want to tactically play the system, it may not be right.

• 6:38Martin Lewis?

  If you have no other debt and you can get a 0% card, then using that to pay off your student loan at 3.2% would give you a marginal saving and could well be worth doing. So how would I do it? Well, we want a credit card at 0% that doesn't have a fee. So the the money transfer card that I could have looked at, which is where it paid the money into your bank account, it wouldn't be worth doing because their cheapest has a 4% fee. So what you would actually have to do in this case is get yourself a 0% for spending credit card. That's one where you can spend on it, effectively borrow on it at 0% for up to 26 months. And you'd go via an eligibility calculator to check which you could get.

• 7:20Martin Lewis?

  You would then use that 0% for spending card for all your normal spending. And that way, the money would build up in your bank account. I'm assuming you're not overdrawn as well. And therefore, you'd be able to use the extra money in your bank account to clear the student loan. So what you're effectively doing is you're shifting money onto the 0% credit card, shifting debt onto it to give you money in your bank account and use the money in your bank account to clear off the student loan. If you were to do that in your particular circumstance, that you're definitely going to be clearing this soon, then it would save you money. However, having done all that in theory, I want to throw a wobbler in here. Your current interest rate is 3.2%.

• 8:05Martin Lewis?

  You can earn 4.5% in easy access savings at the moment. So if you really were going to start to play the system, you would actually be better to build up the false 0% debt and put that money in a high interest savings account, assuming that you don't pay tax on your savings. So you're within the, you can earn a thousand pounds of interest a year or using your cash ISA allowance. And to actually earn 4.5% or 4.7% in the top easy access cash ISA on that money and just let the debt roll on at 3.2%. Because the difference between the two is about 1.5%. So you'd be 1.5% up. If we're going to go super nerdy, if I'm putting my full geek glasses and teeth in off of this one,

• 8:48Martin Lewis?

  then the absolute best result, if you were going to play the system doing that, would be to Stew's. Go look up Stew'sing. We've talked about it in the podcast before. Podcast producer Simon now, once he's editing this, is going to tell you which podcast that was and when you can listen to it.

• 9:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, so that pod was called What's the Best Way to Stew's? And it was uploaded on the 11th of May 2026. You'll be able to find it on BBC Sounds or wherever you found this podcast. Back to Martin.

• 9:14Martin Lewis?

  Thank you for that, Simon, whatever you just said. And you would probably be better off to Stew's. So yes is the answer, but lots of ifs and buts. But most people, be careful moving your student loan debt to a commercial debt. Even if the interest rate is cheaper with the commercial debt, the student loan does have some preferable terms, such as the fact if you lost your job and you couldn't repay it, you no longer have to repay your student loan because it's based on an income contingent system, i.e. you only repay it above a threshold. Hopefully I've danced around all the different issues in there and given you enough to think about.

• 9:47Speaker 04

  When you were saying you've got no debt, would you count a mortgage as a debt?

• 9:52Martin Lewis?

  Well, it depends on your mortgage rate. So if you have a mortgage rate that's at a higher interest rate than your student loan currently is, which is 3.2%.

• 10:04Martin Lewis?

  Then you would probably want to consider overpaying the mortgage as a priority to overpaying the student loan debt.

• 10:11Speaker 04

  Perfect.

• 10:12Martin Lewis?

  Presuming you could overpay the mortgage without overpayment penalties. It's a whole other subject there, Simon. You know, we could do another six minutes on overpaying your mortgage and when it's right, when it's wrong, and how to best utilise it. But hopefully, by the, my suspicion is, I've given a relatively sophisticated answer there to Tom because it was a relatively sophisticated question. I have to be mindful that listening to this podcast is all types of different levels of financial sophistication. If that's all a bit confusing for you, it's not for you.

• 10:41Martin Lewis?

  I'm just going to add in an extra thought on this because I know, I suspect quite a lot of people are going to listen to the podcast to hear whether they should pay off their student loan with a 0% credit card. The most important thing here is that equation of whether you are likely to clear your student loan before it wipes. Now, Plan One loans that Tom had, people borrowed less and it has a lower interest rate. So people who took Plan One loans are far more likely to clear it before it wipes than the most common type of student loan, which is Plan Two loans for those who started university between 2012 and 2023 in England and Wales. With Plan Two loans, the repayment threshold is higher, so you start repaying at around

• 11:24Martin Lewis?

  £29,000, you repay 9% of everything you earn above it, and you repay for 30 years. And the interest rate is between the RPI rate of inflation, so 3.2% for this year, up to RPI plus 3%, which is 6.2% when you combine the two. So the amount of interest being added is larger. Now, while that might make you think you really want to use it to clear the loan, what it actually does for many people is mean they won't clear the loan in full within the 30 years before it wipes. If you're not going to clear the loan in full in the 30 years before it wipes, paying off an extra £1,000 or £2,000 by putting that debt on a 0% credit card

• 12:06Martin Lewis?

  may actually result in no saving in what you have to pay on the student loan. Because the student loan, the amount you pay, is dictated primarily by what you earn, not by what you owe. What you owe is only an indicating factor in whether you'll clear it or not within the 30 years. So the real reason I'm doing this is for those people who won't clear within 30 years, there is a risk that you would get a 0% credit card out to pay off some of your student loan debt, but paying off some of your student loan debt wouldn't actually reduce what you have to pay on the student loan in the 30 years before it wipes, but would have built you up a £1,000 or £2,000 debt on a credit card totally unnecessarily.

• 12:48Martin Lewis?

  I'm not going to go into great detail on it, but I think it's a really interesting point and I didn't want anyone to go away, listening to my answer to Tom, thinking, "Oh, I might do that when your circumstances are very different."

• 13:03Martin Lewis?

  Now, Simon, the format says you need to have a caller or at least a voice message now. Do you have a caller and do you know their question?

• 13:12Speaker 04

  I'm here to make you happy. I think you're going to enjoy it.

• 13:15Martin Lewis?

  Okay.

• 13:15Speaker 04

  We're joined by Lewis in Reading.

• 13:17Martin Lewis?

  Hello, Lewis. What a great name. Love it. It's a double winner on this podcast. The name's not Lewis Martin, is it? That would be even better.

• 13:27Speaker 04

  Well, to be fair, at the end I'll reveal, I also think you're a good egg, Lewis.

• 13:30Martin Lewis?

  Okay. What are you on for, Lewis? What can I do for you?

• 13:35Speaker 05

  So I wanted to share a success that I had from following your guidance. So I received my RAC breakdown renewal letter just recently and I noticed that the premium had gone up by about 18%, up to £62.41 for both my wife and I policy. And I realised that's quite a lot and I don't remember using them even in the last year. So I had a look and I noticed I'd been a member since 2008 and the price had just crept up over that time and I'd just taken my eyes off it completely. Obviously it's just auto renewed.

• 14:12Martin Lewis?

  So what did it started at? Can you remember what it started at and what is it now again?

• 14:16Speaker 05

  So it increased from last year was in the in the 50s, but back in 2008, I had a look back as far as my records could go, and earliest I could see was probably under 20, round about 20 pound, which has gone up like a lot over the years. And I remember hearing from you, you know, about just bringing cleaner finances, do comparisons and loyalty not paying. And so I did an online quote with the main competitor, of course, EA, and also as a new customer for the RAC. And then armed with that, went and rang them up, and they offered me a 50% discount to the renewal on the spot.

• 14:55Martin Lewis?

  Nice.

• 14:55Speaker 05

  Which was quite a lot, but they actually were still double what it would be for a new customer, which the call handler had to agree with. And so that's, that's what we did. We cancelled the renewal. I signed up as a new customer for 15 pounds, 85 p for the a month for both my wife and I. And I actually had extra benefits, like unlimited call apps and car hire and this kind of thing. So yeah, it's, it was a lot cheaper, like quarter of the price and 559 pounds saved for the year. So really good.

• 15:27Martin Lewis?

  So can I be honest? I was going in the beginning of that and thinking how incredibly cheap you had got the cover, because you didn't mention it was a monthly fee. And when you were saying 62 quid, and I'm thinking 62 quid, well, the cheapest full service company out there that gives you everything is about 60 quid a year. So you can get it. I realise now, wow, that is a big success. So what's that? It's a saving from initially, what about 550 quid or something a year?

• 15:56Speaker 05

  Yes, yes.

• 15:58Martin Lewis?

  Okay, all right, all right. So look, this is really important. The number one call centre sector to haggle with in the UK is breakdown recovery, specifically the AA and the RAC. And if you are at renewal, you should never just accept their renewal price. You should always see how you can get the reduction. This is such a wonderful case study. I'm, thank you so much, Lewis, because you've done two things. You've, one, proved that you can haggle, and you've got a 50% reduction, which in its own right would be a good saving. But two, you've also proved that if the saving isn't big enough, as I always say, if your haggle result isn't big enough. We should never get angry. They have a right to set a price and charge us what we want.

• 16:43Martin Lewis?

  You never get angry with the person on the phone and you sound like a lovely chap. I'm sure you didn't. But equally, you do always have a right to take your custom elsewhere, which is exactly what you've done. You've gone somewhere else because it was cheaper and you've got the best price for you. Wonderful. Well done.

• 16:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, thank you very much.

• 16:59Martin Lewis?

  And yeah, big saving, 550 quid-ish a year. Shows you the power of a haggle and even more, the power of being a new customer. World shouldn't work like that, but it does. Brilliant.

• 17:08Speaker 04

  And a double success for you, Lewis, because I saw in your email, you referred to yourself as ESQ in waiting, which is now an official title for you. You can take off the in waiting.

• 17:17Martin Lewis?

  And there will be a badge coming. There are rumours, I don't want to over egg this, but there are rumours, production is happening on the badges. So I think the

• 17:29Speaker 05

  That's so exciting.

• 17:30Martin Lewis?

  The badge may be coming. I am still waiting to see the final design. Professor Sir Dr Matthew Burnham Esquire of this parish will be back as curator of questions next week. Is that right, Simon?

• 17:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. So the reason he's been off because he's gone on a world tour of bad production sites.

• 17:46Martin Lewis?

  Nice, yeah. But I think he's back and I'm hoping on his first return, he will be formally announcing that he has the badges in his hand.

• 17:55Speaker 04

  But I should say, I should say about Lewis, so I had to sort of search his email address in the Martin Lewis inbox to find this email. You voted for MPC, didn't you? Because you're a good guy.

• 18:07Speaker 05

  I did, actually. I must say, the Esquire name has grown on me now. But yeah, originally I did vote for the other one. You're right.

• 18:13Martin Lewis?

  And you know that the other one, the reason this is happening is to go back to this.

• 18:16Speaker 04

  Came up with the other one.

• 18:18Martin Lewis?

  Is that the, and to be fair, the first idea for having a name for our callers and our contributors was Podcast Producer Assignments. And he suggested MPC, Martins, what was it? Martins?

• 18:31Speaker 04

  Podcast Contributor.

• 18:33Martin Lewis?

  Which makes sense and is also obviously the Monetary Policy Committee of the Bank of England. So it had a good double meaning. Now, then we had a bit of interneese sign producer warfare going on between Podcast Producer Simon and Podcast Producer Matt. And obviously, Simon is generally the king of the big issues podcast, whereas Matt is the king of the Question Time podcast. And Matt really didn't want Simon's suggestion to win. I'm sure they're very fond of each other, really. But when it comes to the canon of the podcast, they are fierce rivals. And so, yeah, you will be very happy you got a vote in there, aren't you, Matt? Aren't you? I've just called you Matt.

• 19:08Martin Lewis?

  I'm your Simon.

• 19:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, no, good on you, Lewis. And to be, to be fair, I'm just delighted that, I'm delighted that ultimately we went with the giving people a title idea.

• 19:17Martin Lewis?

  Which was yours?

• 19:18Speaker 04

  And I think, Lewis, you can call yourself an ESQ for the rest of your life.

• 19:21Martin Lewis?

  You are. You can officially, in anything that's referring within the canon of this podcast, call yourself an ESQ and put those letters after your name.

• 19:28Speaker 05

  Love it. I'm very proud of that. Thank you very much.

• 19:30Martin Lewis?

  Thank you for calling in. Thank you so much for sharing your great success. It was lovely to hear.

• 19:34Speaker 05

  Thank you. Nice to speak to you.

• 19:36Martin Lewis?

  I suppose, Simon, what I should do now is I should just give a couple of quick tips on haggling. I'm gonna do this, actually, we're gonna be doing it on the Big Issues podcast later this week, going in full on the haggle. So I'll just give you one now. I know you want five, but I'm only giving you one. What, you want two? All right, I'll give you two, but that's enough. First thing I'll do is always say, when you're haggling, especially if you're talking to a real person, whether it's online or whether it's in web chat, where you can haggle more now, be nice. They are people. They're human beings. They have to do their job, but they don't have to pull out all the stops for you. You want to win them to your side. I call it financial flirtation. I'm not asking you to cross the line in any inappropriate ways. But just think of it as

• 20:18Martin Lewis?

  the idea that you want to win this person to your side with a smile, use their name if they've get told you their name, you know, thank them. Do it all in that way. Aggression does not help. Tip number two, if you're near the end of your contract or at the end of your contract, your biggest weapon is that you might go elsewhere. So if you're not getting what you want politely and nicely asked to go, to disconnections, or whatever the equivalent is in that firm, because internally it'll be known as customer retentions, and the people who work in that department, they have the real power to keep you. As I say, that's the only two tips that you're getting. Listen to the podcast later in the week, the Big Issues podcast, when we will be going into haggling into far more details. Oh, and if you've got a haggling success for

• 21:02Martin Lewis?

  that, Martin Lewis podcast at bbc.co.uk.

• 21:08Speaker 04

  So next up, we've got a question about energy. It comes from Alastair. To Martin and whichever version of Matt. It's me this week.

• 21:18Martin Lewis?

  It's Simon.

• 21:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:20Martin Lewis?

  He means Simon too, Simon. Don't worry, mate.

• 21:22Speaker 04

  My octopus tracker tariff is due to finish soon. I was happy with the risk of fluctuating prices previously, but can I check? Is this sort of product still a sensible option in the current market? Many thanks for all your efforts, Alastair.

• 21:35Martin Lewis?

  So the octopus tracker tariff is not a normal tracker tariff. Other tracker tariffs just track the price cap. The octopus tracker tariff tracks the wholesale rates on a day by day basis. It is a far more complicated and more sophisticated tariff than most energy tariffs out there. Literally, the price you pay for gas and electricity moves every day based on the current, as in that days, or often the prior days, actually, wholesale rates, the rates that the electricity and gas companies are pay for gas and electricity. Now, generally, it actually does pretty well. I mean, I should note that Octopus also has the agile tariff where the electricity charge varies every half hour and is even more complicated, can be even more lucrative or even more costly if you get it wrong.

• 22:19Martin Lewis?

  So let's just go through this. The current unit rates on the standing charge on average for electricity is just under 25p and that's going to rise to 26p in July. The gas is five and a half p, rising to 7.33p in July. So you're seeing it's at 25, 26p for electricity, five and a half to seven pence on gas. If I go and I clicked it up as the question was being asked to the page online that allows me to see the way the tracker rate moves. Well, on electricity, in October and November and December, it was almost always, last year, it was always in the sort of low 20p, so quite a lot cheaper than the price cap. So you gained.

• 23:04Martin Lewis?

  Clearly, then suddenly this year, because of what's gone in the Middle East, wholesale rates have gone up. So for electricity this year, we have seen quite a number of days where the tracker rate has been higher than the price cap. We've also seen days where it's been as low as 17p. I would say probably just looking at that graph and I'm doing a site estimate, so forgive me if I've got it wrong. On electricity, it looks to be roughly around the current price cap rate of around 24p on average, some days more, some days less. On gas, it's been quite a bit more expensive than the current rate. It's been in the 6ps most days when it's 5.5p on the price cap. But that's actually cheaper than the new price cap, which is going to be around 7p. So where does all that bring us?

• 23:49Martin Lewis?

  Where all that brings us is, I think, in this current crisis, if you could get off the tracker cap for a couple of months, it would probably be the safer option. But you can't. What Octopus does, and I understand why it does this, it says, if you want to leave the tracker and go to a price cap or go to a fix, you can, but then you can't come back for nine months. So you're going to have to wait nine months before you sign up to it again. And that makes it difficult. I don't think you've been overpaying that prohibitively on electricity. You have been overpaying a little bit compared to the price cap. Not actually having a go at Octopus, this tariff does what they've always said it does, it moves with wholesale rates.

• 24:29Martin Lewis?

  So, in summary, the tracker tariff, you have probably, in the April price cap period, so April, May, June, paid more on the tracker at a gas than you would have done on the price cap, but only slightly more, mainly because of gas prices. But if they stayed at the same level as they are now on the tracker, at the same volatility, and often, you know, what's going on in the Middle East is going on in the Middle East, and if it continues at that rate, unless it gets far, far worse, we assume it'll stay roughly the same, it's probably slightly cheaper than the new July price cap, which is going up 13% on average, and gas prices particularly, they're going up, I think it's 26%. So much of the rise is on gas.

• 25:10Martin Lewis?

  So the rate you're paying on gas actually is less on the tracker than on the price cap will be in July. So I don't think it's that big a risk to stay on it in July if you're hoping to stay on it long term, once things go back to normal, rather than having to pay the effective nine month penalty of being off it if you leave it now.

• 25:30Martin Lewis?

  It's up to you, basically. Long-winded way to say it's up to your attitude to risk.

• 25:35Martin Lewis?

  When I listened back to this, it occurred to me I hadn't mentioned fixed rate tariffs. And I know some of you will be thinking about what is the impact comparing to the tracker tariff to getting a fix? Well, right now, at the time of recording, I'm afraid there are very few cheap fixes. I mean, the cheapest fix you can get is not much cheaper than the April price cap. I mean, it's about 1% cheaper. So you could, if you want certainty, lock into a fix right now. And the way that it has been going, it looks like that would probably undercut the current prices on the tracker tariff. But of course, the reason you've got the tracker tariff in the first place is to embrace the volatility and hope that the price will be cheaper on the tracker, because, you know, the Middle East conflict is going to end

• 26:20Martin Lewis?

  or reduce, and therefore those prices will come back down, and then it should be beating the cheapest fixes. So I was framing this within those people who are on the tracker tariff, know what they're doing and have got the volatility. Of course, if you're not sure, then the easy way to make sure you guaranteed save over the price cap is to go onto a comparison site and find yourself the cheapest fix. But I don't think that was the spirit of the question. If it was, well, then you've got both my answers.

• 26:48Martin Lewis?

  Are you sitting there thinking, oh, I know what I wanted to ask him? Well, this is your opportunity. If you've got a question, then just send them in to [email protected]. And please do start them Dear Martin. No, Dear Matt. Dear Martin. Dear Matt.

• 27:05Speaker 04

  Or Simon, maybe Simon.

• 27:10Martin Lewis?

  Simon. Now, interestingly, I think you slightly broke format. Don't worry, I'm not going to tell podcast producer Matt, because the second question on the show was actually a success. And normally successes go in slot number four if we have a caller with a success. You've put it in slot number two. So I am presuming at this point with my best Sherlock Holmes act, that you now have a caller and it's an actual question as opposed to a success. How have I done?

• 27:40Speaker 04

  A little insight into me, I've never been great with rules. I see it more as guidelines than a format point. So yeah, I decided to go my own way, but we have got a caller up next.

• 27:50Martin Lewis?

  Am I right? Have you got a caller who's asking a question?

• 27:53Speaker 04

  We've got a caller who's asking a question. Matthew in Sunderland.

• 27:57Martin Lewis?

  Hello, Matthew. What can we do for you? Lovely to speak to you.

• 28:00Speaker 03

  Hi, how are you doing? So for some context, I have three children, an 11 year old, a five year old and a newborn. But right now I have, oh, thank you.

• 28:11Martin Lewis?

  How newborn is newborn, please?

• 28:14Speaker 03

  Three months old.

• 28:16Martin Lewis?

  It makes no difference to the answer to the question, but only difference just to get a good visual.

• 28:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, things have settled down now slightly and you start thinking about money again, so.

• 28:25Martin Lewis?

  Okay, cool.

• 28:27Speaker 03

  So junior ISAs, I have one for each of my oldest, so one for my 11 year old with Nationwide and one with my five year old with Darlington Building Society. The one with Darlington Building Society pays 3.75% and the one with Nationwide pays 2.8%.

• 28:47Martin Lewis?

  Yep.

• 28:48Speaker 03

  So now that I've had this third one, I'm looking at opening up a new junior ISA.

• 28:53Martin Lewis?

  Yep.

• 28:54Speaker 03

  And I kind of want to manage them all in one place.

• 28:57Martin Lewis?

  Yeah.

• 28:57Speaker 03

  So I've looked at moving things to Darlington Building Society, but then I can't manage any of that stuff online and I have to call them all up. I've looked at NSNI, which is currently paying 3.7%, which is lower than what my.

• 29:11Martin Lewis?

  But it's the top rate with online management. Yep.

• 29:14Speaker 03

  Yes, it is, but it's lower than what my daughter is getting right now. So the first of my two questions is, is it okay to sacrifice that extra bit that my daughter is getting? Have it easy to manage in one place?

• 29:26Martin Lewis?

  Let's answer that one first, shall we? The answer to that question is, in my view, when we're talking about, I think it's a 0.05% difference in rate. Yeah, so put in real terms, that's 50p interest per thousand pounds a year or 5p interest per hundred pounds a year. I don't know the scale of magnitude of the type of money you've got in there.

• 29:48Speaker 03

  I put in around 30 pound a month into each of the accounts, so it probably doesn't make sense with that small amount of money to worry about the 0.05%.

• 29:58Martin Lewis?

  Well, also, more importantly, I prefer you to have them all in a convenient place. So if the rate that in the place that you've got it in were to drop, it would, you're not going to be waiting around four or five months thinking, oh, I need to sort all that out and move it somewhere else. You've got them all in one place, you can do it far more easily. And I think the convenience factor for 0.05% is well worth it because, you know, even a delay of three or four weeks at some point in the future, if the rate were to be pants and you had to move it elsewhere, would overcome any very small difference in rate right now. If you're talking about 1% or 1.5%, where's your 11-year-old's money? I know you've not mentioned that.

• 30:37Speaker 03

  With Nationwide, so he's getting 2.8%, which is obviously a lot lower.

• 30:42Martin Lewis?

  Yeah, and so I think that's quite interesting because it sort of proved my point, if you forgive me, that if we make it as easy as possible, you've left his money in Nationwide because it's a hassle to move a junior ISA. So having it all in one place to try and reduce the hassle of moving three junior ISAs in future, it seems a good move for me as long as the rate is very close to being the best buy. And I think a 0.05% rate sacrifice is absolutely fine to ease that administrative burden on you. So you have my permission. I reckon that was a permission question, Matthew. I call permission questions where people sort of know what the answer is, but they just sort of want an external party, and me in this case, to give you permission. If that's what you're asking, you have my permission to sacrifice 0.05%.

• 31:27Speaker 03

  The next part of the question might not be so easy.

• 31:29Martin Lewis?

  Okay.

• 31:32Speaker 03

  The next part is, should it even be in cash ISAs at all? So it's long timeframes, we're talking, even with my 11 year old, it's another minimum of seven years until he's gonna get it. But he's probably gonna be using it for deposits on a house in the future, so it could be 10 years plus. So then it's, should it even be in cash?

• 31:51Martin Lewis?

  Well, if I tell you the first thing I wrote down on the piece of paper when I heard your question, I have, and it's a red pen, I have no idea why, it says shares exclamation mark exclamation mark. So I'm thinking exactly the same way. I've said this before in Question Time, but I think it's really important for parents to understand. The golden rule for when you should invest is money that you don't need that you're putting away for a long time. Depending on who you listen to, three years or five years, I'm a five year, people who are slightly less risk averse than me will say three years. You're talking minimum seven years for your oldest, minimum 17 years and nine months for your youngest. So on the time equation, you're absolutely passing it. On the, do you need the money?

• 32:36Martin Lewis?

  Well, the rule in a junior ISA is this money is locked away and they cannot touch it. So they certainly don't need the money right now, or you wouldn't be putting the money in there in the first place. Which is why I often say that junior ISAs is one of those really, unless you're starting it for a 17 year old who's gonna get the money in a year. It's one of those really obvious areas where people should be biased towards investing more than saving. Now, I say that phrase because I know people get worried about investing in this country, biased towards more. Because it's also worth me saying, you can have a junior ISA shares and a junior ISA cash. You can only have one of each, so one child can only have one junior cash ISA and one junior shares ISA.

• 33:16Martin Lewis?

  But you can have both, as long as you don't put more than nine thousand pounds in both in total. So it's a maximum nine thousand pounds in junior ISAs in one tax year. So your question really is, do you shift it all to shares? Or do you shift some of it to shares? And that really is, probably fits into your attitude to what this money is for. If this is the only money You're giving them, and this is the nest egg you're trying to build your kids' fund with. I know people get more risk averse on it. Personally, I'd be tempted over that long time period. You know, if you're putting it in a in a broad spread of investment, and I quote experts we've had on the show before, not my advice, you know, go for a big, broad, global index tracker that's tracking thousands of the world's biggest companies. So it's just monitoring the performance of the market

• 33:59Martin Lewis?

  and getting those dividends added in and all of that over seven to eight years. On the balance of probabilities, and you understand that phrasing, I can't say it will. I can only say on the balance of probabilities, it's more likely than not, based on what generally happens, that that shares investment will outperform putting the money in cash. So what are you thinking?

• 34:18Speaker 03

  I'm thinking, try and convince my wife to look at some low fee stocks and shares ISA that will maybe like Hargreaves Lansdown or something where they've been around for a very long time and you can trust them.

• 34:30Martin Lewis?

  Jises doesn't have a fee. And honestly, the platform risk is pretty limited with major platforms. The issue is, the issue is, will the investment go up or down? Nothing else. I mean, if she's concerned, and you know, why don't, you could probably start with a half half.

• 34:46Speaker 03

  Right, okay.

• 34:47Martin Lewis?

  You know, I'm not, I'm not saying you should do that, but I'm saying we have to manage people's attitudes to risk. And if your wife's concerned, an easy way is, you know, you're giving each child thirty pounds a month. Why not give fifteen pounds in your cash and fifteen pounds in the shares ISA? It doesn't matter. You know, start it off and see how it goes, unless you decide to go the whole hog. But don't feel you need to go, and I don't say this from a financial perspective, I say this from a psychological comfort perspective. If this is a new and a different way for you to be, don't feel you have to go the whole way at the start. It's, I mean, the most important thing I would think is start to dip your toe in that water and do it in a way that you're comfortable with.

• 35:23Speaker 03

  Well, so all of my personal money that I put away for a long time is all in stocks and shares, but it feels different for children. And I think that's where the issue has come with my wife, where our money putting it away, we don't, we know that we're not going to need it. But putting their money in feels slightly wrong to risk it.

• 35:41Martin Lewis?

  But let's go back. They can't need it until they're 18 because you cannot get that money out until they're 18. So we're not saying they have to permanently invest this. We're only talking about investing it while they're a child and your youngest has nearly 18 years of that money to be locked away. Now, unless you were, it was a very unlucky period and that's always possible, the likelihood is the outcome will be better being in shares than in, than in cash over that length of time in a very broad spread of investments, obviously not in an individual share or something like that. Well, you've got high risk. So I want to be careful what I say, but certainly for any children I'm connected to or know, where I have a familiar relationship with. So that's not just my own, that's, that's

• 36:26Martin Lewis?

  other, I'm always, I would always push towards a shares ISA. Thank you, Matt. I hope that's helpful. I wish you the best and congratulations to you and your wife and the elder siblings on the newborn.

• 36:36Speaker 04

  Let us know what you decide to do, Matthew.

• 36:38Speaker 03

  I'll drop you an email back.

• 36:40Speaker 04

  Legend.

• 36:44Martin Lewis?

  Now, that was very interesting. So Simon next, and we are following format now. I know you're following format. This is the askance question, the funny question. And do, if you have a question for me that's not purely on topic, it can be on anything. I mean, in the early days, it was who would I rather fight, you know, a horse sized duck or 12 duck sized horses? So anything you like, do get them in touch on, as well as your normal questions too, at [email protected]. What have you got for me this week? What is our funny question, our askance question, our different question?

• 37:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, Neil, I think has really got the tone right here. He has asked, Dear Martin, Matt, Rosie, Simon and Matt. And he hopes he hasn't missed anybody out.

• 37:25Martin Lewis?

  What about editor Tom?

• 37:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, editor Tom, you've missed out sadly.

• 37:30Martin Lewis?

  Editor Tom is all their boss.

• 37:33Speaker 04

  Yeah. And I think he has to sign off on a pay rise for me.

• 37:34Martin Lewis?

  Actually, not technically. Editor Tom is Matt, Simon and Matt's boss. I am Rosie's boss, if we're being honest about it. And my boss is the general public.

• 37:48Speaker 04

  Well, Neil is in between jobs and has decided to use some of his spare time embarking on a steps challenge.

• 37:55Martin Lewis?

  Nice.

• 37:56Speaker 04

  Specifically attempting to do 1 million steps in the month of June. He has two questions related to this. What's your monthly step record? And I'm doing my steps on the cross trainer as a way of saving my feet and also watching the cricket whilst I get my steps in. My friends consider this cheating, but I wanted to know if you agreed or not. Neil in North West London. P S, am I still regarded as an ESQ if I send a non-consumer finance related question?

• 38:22Martin Lewis?

  Well, that was actually technically three questions.

• 38:24Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:25Martin Lewis?

  Because the P S was a question.

• 38:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:27Martin Lewis?

  So let's answer the last one first. You are definitely in ESQ and I really like your question. Thank you, Neil. Can we just do a bit of magic of podcasts while I check my steps record, Simon? Okay, so I have checked because I do a spreadsheet of all my steps and then I do a blog on it each year. So it's actually quite easy for me in my nerdy way to check my step monthly record. I did 854,276 last year, but my record ever was 850,833 steps. They're both a net daily average of around 27,500 steps for that month. And for those who like distances, what's that, 750 odd kilometres it equates to? So about 500 miles in the month. People are thinking, well, this is ridiculous.

• 39:11Martin Lewis?

  I've talked many times about my steps before. Last year I managed to average over 26,000 a day for the whole year. So a million is a lot. I mean, that's a heavy month. I've never done a million because I tend to, I'm a consistent stepper and I don't binge my steps. I'm a consistent stepper. As for steps on the cross trainer, some of my steps, because I have an elliptical at home and my first 40 minutes most mornings, if I don't go out for a run, I run once or twice a week, but my knees can't cope with the running. I do it on the elliptical. For those who don't know, that's the one where you sort of, it's like a smooth way of running that stops the impact on your knees where you're moving your arms. I absolutely think those are legitimate steps. They tend to count less. If you go on a treadmill, you'll be getting around 150, 160 steps a minute. If you're on an elliptical,

• 39:56Martin Lewis?

  it's around 130 steps a minute. If you're running outdoors, it's around 180 steps a minute. Tends to count less, and it depends where you position your hands, than actually running. But I do think you are doing steps. Elliptical move is a step equivalent. I mean, it's an equivalent to running and it's more energetic than walking. If you were getting your steps for baking, let's say, and rolling dough, I tend to think that is a bit of a cheat. Certainly, I mean, if you're doing it for 20 minutes, it's not really a problem. But if you were doing that every day, like a baker friend of mine who claims to get lots of steps, who rolls dough a lot, I think that's probably more cheating than actually getting yourself on the exercise equipment in the gym. And when you become obsessed by

• 40:37Martin Lewis?

  this, as I am, I actually tend not to cycle because you don't get steps cycling. I've even tried putting the fitness track around my ankle to get the steps. So it puts me off cycling because I don't get my steps. So the last thing I want to do, Neil, is put you off getting your cardio in on your elliptical by saying your steps don't count. So to Neil's friend, leave it, all right? Leave it. Just leave it, mate.

• 41:01Martin Lewis?

  And now from the ridiculous to the ridiculous, what's your PPS?

• 41:07Martin Lewis?

  So for those who haven't heard this bit, podcast producer Simon, PPS, we also think is the post-postscript to the show. So Simon is charged with coming up with something totally different to end the show with. What have you got to end the show? It's a podcast. I'm getting above my station. It's not a show, it's a podcast to end the podcast with.

• 41:24Speaker 04

  Well, so people who listen to the Big Issues podcast will know there is a mastermind at the end where we ask Adrian a question. And I think to show a little bit of daylight onto the magic of podcasting, there's kind of a dual feature to that. First of all, it's just nice. It's a bit of fun to ask Adrian a question. But also, it's a way for you to sort of sneak in an extra topic.

• 41:42Martin Lewis?

  It is exactly what it's for. It's to get me in an extra topic and a different way that people can engage with. And I always hope people are answering the question at home themselves. And then if they get it wrong or right, they're thinking about why I picked those. All of those questions, they have a twist, an unexpected twist, which is an important learning.

• 42:00Speaker 04

  Now, there is no hidden agenda to my question. I've got nothing beyond that.

• 42:04Martin Lewis?

  I'm not doing a mastermind.

• 42:05Speaker 04

  No, you're not. Exactly. You're not doing a mastermind. You're doing a faster mind. We don't need to get into any extra detail beyond it.

• 42:11Martin Lewis?

  I'm not sure I like this.

• 42:12Speaker 04

  We've worked together quite a long time. I thought I would test.

• 42:15Martin Lewis?

  I think, I think you might be understepping the mark. How well I know you?

• 42:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, the question is.

• 42:20Martin Lewis?

  That's all right. I'm not married to you. It's not the worst if I get it wrong.

• 42:23Speaker 04

  Which of these jobs have I never done?

• 42:26Martin Lewis?

  Okay.

• 42:27Speaker 04

  A, chandelier installer.

• 42:30Martin Lewis?

  I'm thinking only fools of horse think, "Do it, Del Boy! I'm ready, Del Boy!" All right, Grandad, carry on.

• 42:37Speaker 04

  B, human statue, or C, portrait model. So I've done two of those three things.

• 42:45Martin Lewis?

  I think you've definitely been a portrait model, because that's the type of, I can see Simon at uni or post uni saying, "Oh, I'll get £50 to stand there and be a portrait model," or whatever it is. I mean, even if you had to take your clothes off, that wouldn't surprise me. So it's between human statue and chandelier installer. Chandelier installer is so random that that makes me think you may have done it, whereas human statue, I think, is a bit similar to portrait in. You may have just thrown that in. I can't see you doing the standing in the street human statue. And it isn't really a job, is it? It's a sort of, it's a thing, it's like a busking thing. So I'm thinking chandelier. So I'm glancing over at Rosie. Now, Rosie, who is fact-checking me live as we're going and plays a brilliant part in the podcast, but in the canon of the podcast, never speaks.

• 43:29Martin Lewis?

  Rosie, do you agree or disagree with my choice of chandelier installer and portrait? You disagree? Okay, so which, which one of the three do you think he hasn't done? Okay, so Rosie is therefore going for chandelier installer and human statue, and I'm going for chandelier installer and posed for a portrait.

• 43:49Speaker 04

  Well, for all her fact-checking skills, Rosie cannot fact-check my CV. It's a hallelujah for you, Martin.

• 43:56Martin Lewis?

  Yes.

• 44:05Martin Lewis?

  So, chandelier installer I get, that would... Tell... the portrait, who did you do it for and did you take your clothes off?

• 44:11Speaker 04

  I offered, they said no, keep them on.

• 44:13Martin Lewis?

  Yeah, I could probably pay extra to keep them on, I've met you.

• 44:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was when I was backpacking, I saw an advert, fifty dollars, yeah, turn up. It was a lovely sort of group of retired people, I sat there for two hours, they painted some nice pictures.

• 44:25Martin Lewis?

  How lovely. And did you ever drop a chandelier?

• 44:27Speaker 04

  No, first rule of chandelier installing, be very careful.

• 44:30Martin Lewis?

  Second rule of chandelier installing, we never talk about chandelier installing. You've just broken the second rule, Simon. It's all gone.

• 44:38Speaker 04

  I can't go back to it now, yeah.

• 44:39Martin Lewis?

  Right, pod over.

• 44:44Martin Lewis?

  That's it for this week's Question Time. Don't forget to subscribe so you know when we release a new episode. We put out a new Question Time each Monday alongside the Big Topic Podcast with Adrian on Thursdays. Aren't you lucky, two doses of money-saving tips and tricks a week? Do make sure you send in your questions, you can email [email protected]. And Matt's back next week, so do make sure you only send them to Dear Martin. And don't forget, if you come on the show, we'll send you an exclusive Martin Lewis Podcast Question Time badge. Who wouldn't want that? Ooh, you could always leave us a review on wherever you choose to listen to the podcast too. Take care.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  Welcome to The Haunted Library. Join me, Colin Morgan, as I read Frankenstein by Mary Shelley. A story of science and ambition, loneliness and longing, and what it truly means to be human.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  Listen to The Haunted Library wherever you get your podcasts, or find us on YouTube.