Bears Being Framed - Two Stories of Bears Being Blamed for Crimes They Obviously Did Not Do, Peanut the Squirrel, a Macaque Prison Break, and More

Wes covers a couple of recent stories involving dumb and bad men trying to blame their crimes on bears, while Mike digs into a story that he has somehow completely missed out on until now as he has been out of the country for the duration of it, and Jeff shares a story about a tragic lion mauling. ~~ To advertise on the show, contact us! ~~ Tooth & Claw is brought to you by QCODE. Support the show and get access to an extensive library of exclusive episodes like this by supporting the show on Patreon or joining the Grizzly Club on Apple Podcasts. For the latest updates on the show and all things wildlife, follow us at toothandclawpod.com and social: Instagram: @ToothandClawPodcast Twitter: @ToothandClawPod Wes: @GrizKid Jeff: @jefe_larson Mike: @mikey3ds Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:12Jeff Larson?

  Hello everyone, welcome to Tooth and Claw Podcast. We have our bear biologist Wes Larson with us.

• 0:20Wes Larson?

  That's me.

• 0:21Jeff Larson?

  Oh yeah. I'm his younger brother Jeff. And then we also have our big dumb friend Mike.

• 0:32Mike Smith?

  I'm not that big.

• 0:35Wes Larson?

  Or dumb.

• 0:36Mike Smith?

  I don't know about that.

• 0:37Wes Larson?

  When you just said your name, it made me think of all the nicknames you've had over your life. What, when you were little, what was your least favorite and your favorite nickname?

• 0:47Jeff Larson?

  I think Jafers was my favorite. Rainbow Princess, Sloth, Speff.

• 0:55Jeff Larson?

  Those are probably my least favorites.

• 0:57Wes Larson?

  Yeah, Special Jeff. We were pretty dumb. The nicknames weren't the best. Well, I had some good ones too. Cyrus, Cyrus exclusively called me Wuss for like most of my life. That was pretty much.

• 1:13Jeff Larson?

  Wussly though. You gotta put the Wussly.

• 1:16Wes Larson?

  It was mostly Wuss, but then when he wanted to be proper, he called me Wussly.

• 1:20Jeff Larson?

  Wes, so we did like a little bonus thing that wasn't even good enough.

• 1:24Mike Smith?

  Sports.

• 1:25Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, like all sports all time. I don't even know, did we put it on Apple subscriptions?

• 1:29Mike Smith?

  Oh, we should have.

• 1:30Jeff Larson?

  They might want it now.

• 1:31Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:32Wes Larson?

  Why not?

• 1:33Jeff Larson?

  But anyways, we brought Braxton on too. Who like is mainly Mike's friend, Bill. Bill Paxton.

• 1:41Wes Larson?

  Yeah, Bill Braxton.

• 1:42Jeff Larson?

  We're all becoming friends with Bill. He's great. But anyways, we left Bill to like, take care of the episode. And there's like a little moment where I brought up that Mike pointed out in the NBA finals that you could see LeBron's penis from like the sky cam for like a split second.

• 2:03Wes Larson?

  When he pulled his shorts out.

• 2:05Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, when he like aired his shorts out and we like rewinded and then like looked at it and everything. And then the episode just ended. Bill just like ended the episode right there.

• 2:17Jeff Larson?

  There's like fifteen minutes of episode left and that's where like people ended and everyone in the comments were like, I kept rewinding that part. And like I was thinking about it.

• 2:30Mike Smith?

  Oh, it's so funny.

• 2:31Jeff Larson?

  It could have ended at a worse spot because it wasn't quite abrupt enough like a mid word. Like Mike finished his sentence about like.

• 2:40Mike Smith?

  My dad wanting us to rewind.

• 2:42Jeff Larson?

  Asked him to rewind it and then it just ends.

• 2:48Mike Smith?

  So.

• 2:49Wes Larson?

  It's on my list to watch it.

• 2:50Mike Smith?

  Oh, it's so funny.

• 2:51Wes Larson?

  Not the, not the penis thing, the sports all the time.

• 2:54Mike Smith?

  Sure. The penis thing is worth a watch too, if you.

• 2:57Wes Larson?

  I've seen it.

• 2:57Mike Smith?

  Are interested.

• 2:58Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, I was mad he didn't put that video in there.

• 3:01Mike Smith?

  Yeah. I think Patreon would have given us a, a content warning strike, but um, it wasn't actually Braxton's fault. It was just the upload guy. It was a weird upload. The bitrate was wrong. I don't know. We're not, still not really sure, but it should be fixed by now. Which is kind of a shame, but probably for the best.

• 3:19Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 3:19Jeff Larson?

  Oh, man, it is so funny.

• 3:21Wes Larson?

  I'm gonna watch it. You guys wanna hear an unfortunate story that I, that happened to me yesterday?

• 3:26Mike Smith?

  Uh, yeah.

• 3:27Wes Larson?

  So you guys know I have an inner ear problem, right? I got u-station tube dysfunction. So it's been going on since like twenty eighteen, pretty much my ears never clear and they always are making little popping and staticky noises.

• 3:40Jeff Larson?

  Wasn't it from like a scuba flying combo type thing?

• 3:43Wes Larson?

  No, it was just a flying, like a flight that was weird and it, my ears went weird and they never recovered. And it's annoying, but it's kind of become my new normal. But yesterday I went out to cut a Christmas tree and I was like stumbling and a stick went perfectly into my ear and ruptured my eardrum.

• 4:01Mike Smith?

  No way.

• 4:02Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 4:04Jeff Larson?

  Geez, like Luke blowing up the death die type.

• 4:07Mike Smith?

  One in a million, kid.

• 4:09Wes Larson?

  So I, uh, I lost hearing. It felt like someone had like packed one side with cotton and then when I was trying to equalize, I could just hear air rushing out of my ear. And it was like warm, like I could feel the air like traveling and going through that side.

• 4:24Mike Smith?

  Ugh.

• 4:25Wes Larson?

  But I went to a doctor. Today and he immediately was like, yeah, you ruptured your eardrum. But he said it's just like a perfect hole. And that he thinks it'll heal on its own. So I just kind of have to like, deal with this weird pressure imbalance for like a few weeks. Until it heals itself. Yeah.

• 4:43Jeff Larson?

  That sucks.

• 4:44Wes Larson?

  It sucks.

• 4:44Jeff Larson?

  It sucks like I always, when I have something like a ear problem like that going on, I feel like if I do. Like a rupture like that, it'll fix the problem, you know?

• 4:55Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 4:56Jeff Larson?

  I think it's from like, growing up with like the. First edition Nintendos and stuff, if you just like pound on it, it fixed it.

• 5:05Jeff Larson?

  It's just like our body, my body, I attribute that to now, it's just like. If I just hurt this thing that hurts more, it'll fix it. So maybe it'll fix it is my point.

• 5:16Wes Larson?

  Rupturing your eardrum isn't very chill.

• 5:18Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 5:19Wes Larson?

  Don't do it.

• 5:19Mike Smith?

  Don't recommend that. You should have saved that story for our spinoff podcast, the plant attack. When when trees attack.

• 5:26Wes Larson?

  Attacked by a tree.

• 5:28Jeff Larson?

  Tooth and plant.

• 5:29Mike Smith?

  Right.

• 5:29Wes Larson?

  But I got a good Christmas tree, so.

• 5:31Mike Smith?

  Well, that's great. In one of those two.

• 5:34Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, it doesn't seem worth it.

• 5:37Wes Larson?

  No, it wasn't worth it, but. Oh, well, anyway, that's my story.

• 5:42Mike Smith?

  Good one.

• 5:43Jeff Larson?

  Well, I like it.

• 5:44Wes Larson?

  Well, Mike's in Japan.

• 5:45Mike Smith?

  Hey.

• 5:46Wes Larson?

  We're, you know, we're on opposite sides of the world. I just got back from Ecuador. So you know, Mike, we don't want to keep you away from all that ramen and anime and what are those places called?

• 5:56Mike Smith?

  Soaplands.

• 5:57Wes Larson?

  No.

• 5:58Jeff Larson?

  The massage parlors.

• 6:00Wes Larson?

  Not massage parlors, the other, but it's kind of like that, like a hostess bar.

• 6:04Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 6:04Wes Larson?

  Right?

• 6:04Mike Smith?

  Well, Soapland is kind of what you're trying to get at, but I know what you mean.

• 6:09Wes Larson?

  Okay, you knew what I was talking about.

• 6:11Mike Smith?

  Oh, do I ever?

• 6:13Wes Larson?

  Uh, this week is our ever so often news episode where we catch everyone up on what's been going on. In the wider world of animal news. Sometimes we talk about attacks, sometimes we just talk about interesting stories. But we're just, we're kind of, you know, we get sent a lot of stories. People want to hear us talk about it. So that's what we're here to do. We're going to talk about it.

• 6:34Mike Smith?

  Let's talk.

• 6:35Wes Larson?

  So it is, I should just say like, this is atypical from our, our normal episodes. Our normal episodes are dealing with like one story, one species generally. And this is about every six weeks, we do this where we just go over some recent stuff. And if you guys want, I can go first. I've got two kind of bangers right out of the bat. Ones that we were sent a lot.

• 6:56Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, I don't wanna go first.

• 6:57Mike Smith?

  Go Wes.

• 6:58Wes Larson?

  Alright, I'll go first. I'm gonna tell both of them though. So you're gonna have to just buckle in a little bit.

• 7:02Mike Smith?

  Back to back.

• 7:03Jeff Larson?

  Oh.

• 7:03Wes Larson?

  Well, it's a segment, and I call this segment BBBBB, or Bad Boys Be Blaming Bears. That's what it's called.

• 7:11Jeff Larson?

  Alright.

• 7:12Wes Larson?

  Um, we're workshopping that. On October 10th, Dustin Kersum, and I, I'm, his last name is K J E R S E M, so I don't totally know how to pronounce it. I'm just gonna call him Dustin from here on out. But he headed into the woods not far from Big Sky, Montana, which is somewhat close to Bozeman. And he's going out there for a little overnight camping trip. And the next day, his girlfriend was expecting a ride from him, but he didn't show up. So she knew more or less where he was camping, uh, the Moose Creek area. And she went looking for him with a friend. And October 12th, two days later, they found him. And unfortunately, he was dead.

• 7:52Wes Larson?

  Dustin's body had been mangled and torn up so badly that immediately the first thing they thought of was that he had been attacked by a bear. So they reported the death as a probable bear attack. And officials from Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks responded to the scene to do an investigation. But when they got there, they immediately were really dubious that a bear had caused the attack. Because they didn't find any scat, any hair, or any tracks around the body. So they're pretty sure it wasn't a bear, and the focus switched to a homicide. So they, law enforcement kind of put out the call. They were like, does anyone know what could have happened here? They're searching for a potential culprit. But initially, and I remember this, when this was reported, like the day of,

• 8:35Wes Larson?

  people were saying it was a bear attack, like probable bear attack. A few people sent it to us, like, oh, this guy got mauled and killed really badly in Montana. And then like a couple of days later, they're, they're like, JK, not a bear attack. This was actually a homicide.

• 8:49Jeff Larson?

  Oh, yikes.

• 8:50Wes Larson?

  Yikes. Uh, it gets, yeah, it's pretty bad.

• 8:53Jeff Larson?

  Arrest any bears.

• 8:55Wes Larson?

  Yeah, if they arrest any bears, they're gonna get sued by those bears. Um, so it actually wasn't long before law enforcement had the murderer in handcuffs. And a simple beer can was a piece of evidence that would put him behind bars.

• 9:08Mike Smith?

  Not a bear can.

• 9:09Wes Larson?

  So let's rewind. A beer.

• 9:11Mike Smith?

  That would have given it away. That would have been a bear probably in that case.

• 9:14Wes Larson?

  Yes, that would have been a bear if it was a bear can, whatever that is. On October 10th Dustin settled into his campsite and a stranger approaches him near his fire and Dustin who by all accounts was a really kind and compassionate person offered this man a beer and they sat down in his camp chatting. The stranger was 41 year old Darren Christopher Abbey, a skinhead neo-Nazi with an extensive crime record. So during that evening, something caused Abbey to attack Dustin and he killed him really violently. He hit him over the head with a piece of firewood, he stabbed him in the neck with a screwdriver and then he smashed his face with the blunt side of an axe.

• 9:56Jeff Larson?

  Geez.

• 9:57Wes Larson?

  So really bad, really violent and then he also chopped his body up quite a bit too. And I don't know if maybe that was him trying to make it look like a bear attack or something because I'm pretty sure Dustin was already dead at that point. He then did the best to take anything that he might have touched from the scene, dispose of any evidence, but he forgot one thing and it was one of the beer cans that he had discarded. No, that wasn't it.

• 10:21Jeff Larson?

  Because they look for bear poop.

• 10:23Wes Larson?

  Bear poop, yep. Sprinkle some bear hair and tracks around. Um, so he then returned to the Big Sky, which is kind of a resort town and a couple weeks later, a couple weeks later, he was reported to the police because he was making white supremacist comments to employees at a tasting room and generally just kind of scaring people. So this put him on the radar of the local police and I will say like, if you just murdered someone violently, you probably shouldn't like walk around a resort town making a bunch of white supremacist comments because I think there's a good chance someone's gonna call the police. You shouldn't do that regardless, but um, definitely if you just murdered someone. Uh, so he's reported to the police, this puts him on their radar and because his DNA

• 11:08Wes Larson?

  was on file from some of his older crimes, they decided, okay, let's test this guy against the DNA we found on the beer can and they got a match. They got a match for him and his twin brother, but his twin was already in prison in Shelby, Montana, so they arrested Darren Christopher Abbey. Um, he, after being presented with the evidence, he confessed, he knew they had him, but he claimed self-defense. And what he said was that his dog had jumped on Dustin's sleeping pad and had made like some muddy paw prints. So he went down to the creek with a rag to get some water to clean it up. And when he got back, Dustin was so mad about these bloody paw print, or these muddy paw prints, that he threatened to kill this Abby

• 11:53Wes Larson?

  guy and his dog. And so Abby attacked him and killed him in self-defense. That was his story. No, no defensive wounds, no anything. Uh, it's very unlikely that's what actually happened.

• 12:06Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 12:06Wes Larson?

  So.

• 12:07Jeff Larson?

  That's crazy.

• 12:08Wes Larson?

  Bears, the bears were declared innocent. This was not a bear attack.

• 12:12Jeff Larson?

  Good. I'm happy. I, and like, don't let that affect your judgment on other neo-Nazis, right? Skinheads.

• 12:22Wes Larson?

  No, they're all bad.

• 12:23Jeff Larson?

  Like, they're not all.

• 12:25Wes Larson?

  They are. I think, I think, I'm gonna paint with a pretty blanket, big brush here.

• 12:30Jeff Larson?

  Sure.

• 12:30Wes Larson?

  They're all bad.

• 12:31Jeff Larson?

  Okay.

• 12:31Wes Larson?

  Just go ahead and avoid them. Yeah.

• 12:33Jeff Larson?

  Alright, yeah.

• 12:34Wes Larson?

  Um, alright, so.

• 12:36Jeff Larson?

  Don't let it affect your opinion on bears. Can't say that?

• 12:39Wes Larson?

  Yep, you can say that. Let's not let it affect your opinion on bears, on camping. Camping's great. Um, but yeah, I would say avoid skinhead neo-Nazis at all costs. Yep.

• 13:22Wes Larson?

  You know what? I think we live in really complicated times. People have a lot on their plate. There's just a lot to worry about these days. And for me, that's why it's really important that I have things to help me with that. And one thing I really want to tell you guys about is Cornbread and their hemp CBD gummies. They're the highest quality, full-spectrum gummies on the market. They're great for stress relief, for better recovery, and improved sleep. Now, that last one's really important for me. I have a hard time getting great sleep, and I have found that when I take one of these gummies before I go to bed, I wake up feeling refreshed, and I sleep really hard. And there's a few things that set their CBD gummies apart. They're full-spectrum, they're USDA-certified organic, they're the first USDA-certified organic CBD gummy, they're made from flour only,

• 14:07Wes Larson?

  they're third-party lab-tested, they're vegan, dairy-free, gluten-free, and there's no artificial flavors or preservatives. So they're really good. And they also offer free shipping, and they back all of their products with a 30-day Better Life guarantee. So if you're looking for a healthier way to relieve aches and pains while getting a better night's sleep, try Cornbread Hemp's USDA organic CBD gummies. They're full-spectrum, including THC, flour-only, and third-party lab-tested. If you want to give Cornbread a try, they're offering Tooth and Claw listeners 30% off your first order. Just visit cornbreadhemp.com/tooth and use promo code TOOTH at checkout. That's cornbreadhemp.com/tooth and use code TOOTH

• 14:49Wes Larson?

  for 30% off your first order. Thank you, Cornbread, for sponsoring our episode.

• 14:55Wes Larson?

  Alright, so speaking of framing bears, in January of this year, and there's a reason I'm telling this story now, because the report recently came out, but this happened in January. Four residents of Lake Arrowhead, California, which is in the greater Los Angeles area, submitted a car insurance claim when a bear entered their 2010 Rolls-Royce Ghost and caused a lot of damage to the car. So it seems pretty cut and dry, right? A bear comes in your car, rips it up, so you submit a car insurance- It's happened before. Wrong, Mike. It's not cut and dry. What? These same residents also gave the insurance company video footage of the bear doing the damage. And someone-

• 15:39Wes Larson?

  Oh wow, they were getting cocky. They were, yeah. Someone at the insurance company saw it, and they thought it looked a little unbelievable.

• 15:51Wes Larson?

  All right.

• 15:52Jeff Larson?

  I like it. I like that.

• 15:54Wes Larson?

  Uh, they invest, an investigation was launched. Authorities soon found that these Lake Arrowhead residents had submitted similar claims for two other luxury vehicles. And altogether, they'd gotten about a hundred and forty thousand dollars.

• 16:07Jeff Larson?

  In your cars?

• 16:08Wes Larson?

  Exactly.

• 16:09Jeff Larson?

  It's like, are you leaving salmons in there?

• 16:11Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 16:14Wes Larson?

  Uh, so they'd gotten about a hundred and forty thousand dollars in, in rewards from these insurance companies, uh, for these claims of bear-related damages to three different cars. So law enforcement got a search warrant. They started an operation called Operation Bear Claw. And they quickly found a very cheap looking bear costume in the residence of these people. And they also had a California wildlife professional look at the footage. And that person, within like a couple of seconds was like, this is clearly a person in a bear costume. And if you guys watch this video, it is very clearly someone in a like-

• 16:52Jeff Larson?

  Like a people expert to verify that?

• 16:55Mike Smith?

  That it was actually a human?

• 16:55Wes Larson?

  Then they were like, call in the people expert. Yep, that's people, all right. Uh, they're in like a loose bear costume and it just looks like someone in like loose bear pajamas pretending to be a bear for a child or something in a car.

• 17:12Jeff Larson?

  It's so bad.

• 17:12Wes Larson?

  It's really, really bad. Like they did the absolute minimum.

• 17:17Jeff Larson?

  First two, or like the first two insurance people who passed it must have been the same people who do the Hollywood bears sometimes. It's just like, none of this is accurate at all.

• 17:29Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 17:29Jeff Larson?

  What are you thinking? Like, the costume had like the, um, what's his name? Uh, Edward Scissorhand, like scissors at the, at the end. And then like the scratches in the car were just like completely like uniform and just-

• 17:46Wes Larson?

  They're like perfectly spaced apart. It looks like someone took one of those big combs that has like the really far separated teeth and just scraped it perfectly down a car and like didn't puncture it like didn't puncture the leather or anything. It just made like scratch marks and it's just so stupid. Anyway, they're all in custody. Um, I I'd like to offer my services to any insurance company. If you ever need a bear expert, feel free to call me. I'm gonna charge you a lot of money, but I'll do it and I'll make sure you don't spend a hundred and forty thousand dollars paying for someone's Rolls Royce.

• 18:23Jeff Larson?

  And I'll offer my services to any like people trying to commit insurance fraud. If you cut me in on it, like there's better bear costumes out there than that. I know better what a bear does to a car than just like some scrapes. Yeah. So like I'll get in there. I'll really mess it up.

• 18:43Wes Larson?

  Sure. Yin and yang.

• 18:44Jeff Larson?

  Take it like a bear dump and put it in the car.

• 18:47Wes Larson?

  Just wear a bearskin rug and like a black shirt and you'll it'll look a lot better than what these guys.

• 18:52Mike Smith?

  And don't make it immediately findable. I'm just imagining they have like the bear costume out on like a clothesline in their front lawn. It's like, all right, well.

• 19:04Wes Larson?

  The cops just show up and they're like, huh, Operation Bear Claw is going pretty well so far.

• 19:10Mike Smith?

  That's a good.

• 19:11Wes Larson?

  That's it for my first.

• 19:12Mike Smith?

  That's a good name for like a police investigation project because it doubles as the donut, right?

• 19:17Wes Larson?

  I thought the same thing. Yeah.

• 19:18Mike Smith?

  Perfect. Cops, they love donuts. We all do, but for some reason they extra do.

• 19:23Wes Larson?

  They love them.

• 19:23Jeff Larson?

  I think it's because they're just sitting around all the time. So they they can like get donuts like all day long.

• 19:30Mike Smith?

  Right.

• 19:31Jeff Larson?

  And most people have to get donuts like before they go into work.

• 19:35Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 19:36Jeff Larson?

  That's my theory.

• 19:37Wes Larson?

  Do you guys ever go to the grocery store and eat a donut while you're in the store?

• 19:40Mike Smith?

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:41Wes Larson?

  Yeah. It's nice.

• 19:42Jeff Larson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:43Wes Larson?

  It's a free grocery store.

• 19:44Jeff Larson?

  The first time I saw someone do that, I was just like, that guy's going to hell. I was in high school. This guy's going to hell.

• 19:52Mike Smith?

  You still pay for it. Yeah.

• 19:54Jeff Larson?

  Oh, he didn't pay for it.

• 19:56Mike Smith?

  Yeah, I do. I'm an upstanding citizen.

• 20:00Wes Larson?

  All right.

• 20:00Mike Smith?

  Uh, I'm actually, I'm gonna get a quick one out of the way. I'm, I'm doing the, I'm the Coyotes Bewiling correspondent of the month again. And I saw some recent home security footage of Tommy Lee of Motley Crue fame. His Beverly Hills mansion where his wife-

• 20:18Wes Larson?

  I've seen some footage of him.

• 20:19Mike Smith?

  Which kind?

• 20:22Wes Larson?

  Nevermind.

• 20:25Mike Smith?

  But so the footage shows their backyard, him and his wife, Brittany Furlan is her name.

• 20:30Jeff Larson?

  Pamela's bewiling.

• 20:31Mike Smith?

  Oh dude.

• 20:32Jeff Larson?

  Pamela's bewiling.

• 20:33Mike Smith?

  That's for a different podcast. That's for Tooth and Claw After Dark. But the footage is of their backyard, a coyote snags up their dachshund and takes off with it in its mouth. And Brittany, Tommy's wife, runs out and chases it over a wall and scares the coyote off. Thankfully dropping their dog, Nina. And she was, he was recovered safely and everything was fine, but Tommy joined her in the backyard. It was kind of this whole kerfuffle and they started freaking out and Dane Cook weighed in on the situation. Not really weighed in, but I thought it was kind of a funny detail.

• 21:09Wes Larson?

  A blast from the past.

• 21:10Mike Smith?

  Dane Cook got a little bit involved over Twitter or whatever we're calling that website. He said, man.

• 21:15Wes Larson?

  Did this story happen in 2004?

• 21:18Mike Smith?

  "I'm so sorry. This is brutal to watch. They're more aggressive than ever," comedian Dane Cook wrote. So I don't know what he knows about aggression levels in coyotes, but maybe we should be talking to him. But it was, it's like a scary thing because like a coyote can run off with like a wiener dog.

• 21:36Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 21:37Mike Smith?

  And like, that's it for your dog, you know, and that's like pretty traumatizing no matter how you look at it. So I'm glad Brittany was there to sort things out.

• 21:45Jeff Larson?

  When a comedian makes like a serious comment, do you take it more or less seriously?

• 21:52Jeff Larson?

  Then like other like your like average serious comment.

• 21:56Wes Larson?

  I think I take it more seriously.

• 21:58Jeff Larson?

  Normally he's not gonna be serious, but on the other hand, it's like you Dane Cook, you make jokes. I don't care what you think about coyotes.

• 22:06Wes Larson?

  The thing that it always strikes me is like, why are they having Dane Cook way on this if he's not cracking the joke?

• 22:12Jeff Larson?

  Well, he just sent it.

• 22:14Mike Smith?

  Yeah, you know how like they aggregate tweets into the stories?

• 22:18Jeff Larson?

  Tweeted.

• 22:19Wes Larson?

  Okay, but still like why? Okay. Yeah, I guess. Why are they like?

• 22:22Mike Smith?

  I think.

• 22:22Jeff Larson?

  Well, I don't think Brad Pitt's tweeting about it.

• 22:25Mike Smith?

  Right.

• 22:26Wes Larson?

  Probably. You're probably right. Yeah. I feel like it's still just like pull out just a random tweet then. Cause the Dane Cook thing just throws me off. It's like, well, that guy's still alive. Yeah.

• 22:38Mike Smith?

  He's good. He's still, he's still kidding. He's, I was gonna say he's still cooking, but yeah, that was hacky of me.

• 22:44Jeff Larson?

  Just to add on to mics, because we both talked about it a bit. I have in Seattle, some coyotes are wiling too. A lady just had to like pull her dog out of a coyote coyote's mouth the other day and the coyote bit her arm up a bit. And then it turns out that a lady had a coyote bite its kitten's head and running away with it. And she had to go save her kitten. And a week before that happened, another person had their dog with like a coyote. Taking it down the street and all these other cars saw it and started honking and the coyote left it alone. So Seattle coyotes are wiling.

• 23:26Mike Smith?

  What did Dane Cook say about those ones?

• 23:29Jeff Larson?

  He said, wow, I think these are about to get more aggressive than ever.

• 23:35Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 23:36Wes Larson?

  Dane Cook's got the, he's got his finger on the pulse of coyotes around the country.

• 23:41Mike Smith?

  Real late career pivot.

• 23:45Jeff Larson?

  These are right on the verge of being more aggressive than ever. And then Tommy Lee had broke.

• 23:52Mike Smith?

  And he's like, I told you guys. You never listen to me. No one listens to me anymore.

• 24:00Jeff Larson?

  Uh, should I go?

• 24:02Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 24:02Mike Smith?

  Yeah, go for it.

• 24:03Jeff Larson?

  That's not counting as mine. I just wanted to.

• 24:06Wes Larson?

  Alright.

• 24:06Jeff Larson?

  Spice mics up a little.

• 24:08Mike Smith?

  Yeah, it needed it.

• 24:09Jeff Larson?

  Alright, a lion killed someone.

• 24:12Wes Larson?

  Uh oh.

• 24:12Jeff Larson?

  On September thirtieth, and it was not a wild lion. It was in Nigeria. And there's a zookeeper and uh, he's like a trained lion handler. He's thirty five. Baba Zou Douy and he's working in a place called the Presidential Library Wildlife Park. In Abakuta. Um, I feel like you can't put all those.

• 24:39Wes Larson?

  No.

• 24:40Jeff Larson?

  Words together.

• 24:41Mike Smith?

  Library, library.

• 24:42Wes Larson?

  Library.

• 24:43Jeff Larson?

  Wildlife Park.

• 24:45Mike Smith?

  Of all the words you struggled on, library the most, which is shocking, but.

• 24:50Wes Larson?

  It's alright.

• 24:51Jeff Larson?

  Me?

• 24:51Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 24:51Wes Larson?

  It's okay though.

• 24:52Mike Smith?

  Library is.

• 24:54Jeff Larson?

  Dude, get off your high horse with how I speak already.

• 24:58Mike Smith?

  Okay.

• 24:59Jeff Larson?

  Alright.

• 25:00Wes Larson?

  We were gonna let it slide.

• 25:01Jeff Larson?

  Spanish. I was just saying, I didn't say that I said it wrong. What do you mean you were gonna leave it?

• 25:08Wes Larson?

  Uh, I feel like we were leaving it and then you brought up all the words and we were like, okay, now we gotta say something about library.

• 25:14Jeff Larson?

  Like for like a zoo, that's a crazy title.

• 25:18Mike Smith?

  It is. Didn't mean, it's a little over the top. You're right.

• 25:22Jeff Larson?

  Presidential Library. Yeah. Um, but anyways. Have you guys ever had it where you like, you get a group of people to watch you do something and then it goes like completely out of your plan?

• 25:35Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 25:35Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 25:36Jeff Larson?

  Like it's very embarrassing when you like, are like, hey, look at this and then you completely mess it up.

• 25:43Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 25:45Jeff Larson?

  I had my funniest one, I like, was gonna just jump off a wall and somersault into a backyard when I was like twelve. And I told my cousins like, hey, watch this. And I like slipped right before I jumped, hit my shin on the brick wall. And went headfirst into like a rose bush. And they were just like, yeah, I mean, thanks for telling us to watch. But why did you do that?

• 26:13Jeff Larson?

  But anyways, the zookeeper um was kinda like, hey, you guys, look at this, watch this, and gets everyone to come watch him feed this lion. And he felt pretty comfortable with the lion. So he didn't close the safety protection gate and started to feed the animal. And it mauled him right away, went for his neck, he died on the spot.

• 26:37Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 26:38Jeff Larson?

  Um, also, a lion in Pakistan attacked someone who was like, I guess they own a bunch of lions in Pakistan. They don't really have laws about it and they have some type of pipeline for lions. But someone was like taking a selfie with someone's lion and got mauled up pretty good.

• 26:57Wes Larson?

  Yeah, you know, we've talked about this a bit on the show, but I think it bears repeating that these are animals in zoos, especially, and I I don't wanna like cast any judgments about the zoo cuz I haven't been there, but especially zoos that maybe aren't quite to the standards, some of the zoos here, they are doing the same thing over and over and over again, and they're seeing the same things over and over and over again. So when something breaks that rhythm, like something as simple as them not locking that door or something like that, they notice, like it is something that's out of the ordinary and they notice it and it's really, really dangerous. So it's why you do have to be really careful

• 27:37Wes Larson?

  in these kinda situations. If you're ever, like, no one that I'm talking to is probably ever gonna be in a situation like that. But if you're in like a park or something, like a safari park or whatever, don't do anything that they tell you not to do because it does

• 27:52Jeff Larson?

  Presidential Library wildlife.

• 27:55Wes Larson?

  Yeah, exactly. If you're there, yeah.

• 27:59Jeff Larson?

  No, I mean, I think that's fair to like, we won't say for sure how that zoo was, but like I went to the city of Johannesburg Zoo, which I liked it a lot, but also like this, one of the vendors was telling me that the elephants was throwing like big rocks at them the other night and like showed me a video of it. And it's kinda like, alright, so you guys are a little loose with the rules around here.

• 28:25Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Okay. Uh, I've got, I've got kind of a sad one. It's one that I have to be careful with because I think there's a lot of different things we could say about this that could be a little insensitive. I'm gonna do my best to be sensitive with it. Um, but you guys maybe remember it was like right after our Black Mamba episode, I texted you both and said, Dingo Dinkleman just got bit by a mamba and killed. Do you guys remember that text from me? Yeah. So Dingo Dinkleman is a popular YouTuber and he's a wildlife enthusiast that gained a lot of traction for videos and live shows featuring venomous snakes and dangerous wildlife.

• 29:07Wes Larson?

  He's from South Africa. Um, and when I was researching Black-

• 29:11Jeff Larson?

  Memorable name too.

• 29:12Wes Larson?

  Dingo Dinkleman. Yeah. It's a great name.

• 29:14Jeff Larson?

  Coyote Peterson, Dingo Dinkleman.

• 29:17Mike Smith?

  Is that his real name or just like a YouTube?

• 29:20Wes Larson?

  I, I don't know. I should have looked into that, but I also don't, I don't want to lose the, the luster of his name being Dingo Dinkleman. So I decided just to let, you know, sleeping dogs lie. So when I was researching Black Mambas, a lot of my research led me back to him. And a part of that was because he had been bitten by a Black Mamba during a live show in 2003. He almost died. And he just posts a lot of videos with Black Mambas. And one of the videos, the video where he's talking about his bite from 2003, he's handling a Black Mamba while he's talking about it and it's like getting pretty close to biting him. So, I mean, this dude lived on the edge with Mambas in general.

• 30:04Wes Larson?

  And he has like a really classic, strong South African accent. It adds a lot to his videos. It kind of feels like Steve Irwin and his Australian accent. And a lot of people actually called this guy the South African Steve Irwin. So in September of this year, he was bitten while handling a green mamba in his home. He got antivenin, but he had an allergic reaction to it, which often is much more likely if you've already had it before for previous snake bites. Your body produces those antibodies and everything, and it can lead to you having an allergic reaction if you ever need it again. So he had an allergic reaction. He went into anaphylactic shock and doctors had to put him on a medically induced coma,

• 30:48Wes Larson?

  a coma, uh, to, to keep him alive. And he survived for about a month in that coma. And then it's unclear whether, uh, family decided to, you know, release him from that, or if he passed away while he was in the coma. But, um, he died and he died on October 26th, 2024. And this is the part where I kind of want to try and walk the line as best I can. But I have noticed there's a lot of social media influencers or YouTubers that come into a fair amount of fame and money by handling really dangerous animals. And I do think he did a lot of like interesting work. He rescued a lot of snakes.

• 31:32Wes Larson?

  He did a lot of interesting conservation work. So I'm not going to say that he had like selfish intentions with his videos or by creating his channel, like it's very likely that he just filtered his passion for dangerous and wildlife and venomous snakes and everything into a form of media, which, you know, I've done that, like we've all done that with tooth and claw. So it, I do think there's a way to do that where like you do make some money and stuff off of just a natural passion. But I do find that some of these people who create videos around really dangerous wildlife have to keep making increasingly dangerous and thrilling content in order to keep their audience like satisfied and satiated.

• 32:17Wes Larson?

  So it does seem to me like it's just a matter of time before it catches up with them. And when I, that rang really true to me when I opened up his YouTube page and looked at his video titles. So I'm going to read you guys the titles from some of his videos, just on the front page of his YouTube channel. This one was in all caps with exclamation marks. Big problem. My giant snake escaped.

• 32:43Wes Larson?

  Can I, then these are other ones. Can I swim with the king cobra? Deadly boom slaying in my house. Dead snake sends me to the hospital. Black mamba, I made a big mistake. One night in a cage of death with six mambas. Uh, those are all titles of his videos. It made me think of, do you guys remember that Norm MacDonald sketch after Steve Irwin died?

• 33:06Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 33:07Mike Smith?

  When he was on Jon Stewart?

• 33:08Jeff Larson?

  It's so good.

• 33:09Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 33:09Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 33:10Wes Larson?

  He's on the Daily Show.

• 33:11Jeff Larson?

  We should just play it, right?

• 33:12Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 33:13Speaker 03

  I wanted to talk about the crocodile hunter. Because I think, you know, it was, it was tragic at the time, but I think,

• 33:22Speaker 03

  I don't know, people column me, man, they're shocked. Oh, hey, you wouldn't believe it, who got killed? The crocodile hunter. Don't, please don't make me laugh at this. I mean, and they were like, he was forty-four years old. I'm like, that's a ripe old age for a crocodile hunter. And you know, I had to be pissed about a word of crocodiles. Cause uh, he got killed by some fruity fish.

• 33:47Wes Larson?

  I do get the sense from Dingo's videos that he was really passionate about wildlife. That he really loved his family and that he was doing what made him truly happy. I think there's something really beautiful about that. I don't think there's that many people these days that are able to follow their passions and do it so effectively and bring so many people into it. Um, and it's really tragic to me that he left this loving wife and kids behind because he was clearly their hero. So, um, you know, rest in peace, Dingo Dinkelman.

• 34:18Mike Smith?

  It's a sad one.

• 34:18Wes Larson?

  Yeah, it is. And honestly, like, I did really enjoy watching his videos. I kinda, I, he would come up in my feed every once in a while and, and he was an interesting guy. But it's a really dangerous profession. I think the thing he did that was really good is he rescued a lot of snakes from people's homes and probably saved people from being bitten, saved those snakes. So he did a lot of good.

• 34:38Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 34:38Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 34:39Speaker 04

  Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change. Your receipt did. The sausage McMuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just five dollars. Only at McDonald's for a limited time. Price and participation may vary. Promotion price may be lower.

• 34:56Wes Larson?

  For me, sometimes I find gifting to be really challenging. I feel like we have so many things at our fingertips these days that it's really easy for people to find the stuff they want. But lately, I found something that I really like that I'm excited to give people this year, and that's Kinsay. Kinsay lets you treat your loved ones and yourself to true quality clothing at an affordable price. And something that everyone needs in their closet, in my opinion, is their iconic Mongolian cashmere sweaters, which start at just $50. This cashmere is really soft. I remember when I opened my package, I just felt like, oh, I can't wait to put this shirt on. It was so soft. I also got a beanie that I really like from them. I think I already lost it, so I'm gonna order a new one immediately because it immediately became my favorite beanie. No matter what

• 35:41Wes Larson?

  you're looking for, all of their items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands, and they're made from really high-quality Mongolian cashmere. And they're on the nice list. They only work with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices. Plus, they use premium fabrics and finishes for luxury that you can feel in every single piece. You know, for me, I just feel like this is the time of year to get cozy, to wear clothing that's very soft and very warm, and that's what this is. The second I put it on, Jesse wanted to touch it and feel how warm it is. It's very, very cozy, so I can't recommend them enough. If you want to gift luxury this holiday season without a luxury price tag, you can go to kinsay.com/tooth for 365-day returns

• 36:24Wes Larson?

  plus free shipping on your order. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash tooth to get free shipping and 365-day returns. Kinsay.com slash tooth. Thank you for sponsoring this episode.

• 36:40Wes Larson?

  Well, I got another, uh, I don't know quite what to call this. This is real. I'm about to prove this. Have you guys been following or up to speed on this story about Peanut the squirrel in New York? Have you heard about this?

• 36:52Jeff Larson?

  It became very political.

• 36:54Wes Larson?

  It did.

• 36:55Jeff Larson?

  But I think the story itself, if we keep politics out, is fine.

• 36:59Wes Larson?

  Yeah, no, it's like, it's...

• 37:01Mike Smith?

  I saw the story and I was like, oh, that'd be kind of a weird little thing just to get Wes to talk about like the dangers, the upsides, the slippery slope of keeping wild animals in your house. But the more I read into this story, the more twists and turns this thing took. So we'll just briefly go over the events of the day and then we can discuss maybe some more information that's a little more in the purview of the show. But um, so about seven years ago, Mark Longo witnessed a young squirrel's mother get run over by a car. And somehow in whatever happened, the young squirrel also was injured. So him and his wife took in, or at least he did, he took in the squirrel, which he eventually named Peanut into his home to just help it

• 37:43Mike Smith?

  recuperate for about eight and a half weeks, it said. And when he tried to release it back into the wild, it got pretty much like immediately attacked or somehow was put in danger again. He decided that it hadn't developed the survival skills it needed. So he just took it back in, adopted it as his pet Peanut, the squirrel. And it pretty quickly turned into a social media sensation where like hundreds of thousands of people followed him on his Instagram account, Peanut, Peanut's Instagram account, where he had like, wear little mini hats or jump through hoops and eat waffles and stuff. So it was like, a pretty, pretty big player in the social media space. So on the day that the authorities received an anonymous tip and went and raided

• 38:28Mike Smith?

  Mark's house, Mark and Daniela's house, they found Peanut and a raccoon named Fred and they took them away. And unfortunately during the raid, if you want to call it a raid, there's a lot of like, he said, she said in this story for right now. But Peanut apparently bit one of the officer's hands, which prompted them to think that maybe there was some rabies. So they had to euthanize both Fred and Peanut. And this got everyone in an outrage. And of course, it was tragic for Mark and Daniela. And there they've since like, they've wanted to sue the state. It's like, it's a real crazy thing. But Donald Trump's official TikTok account got

• 39:07Mike Smith?

  involved. Elon tweeted about it. Some fighter at UFC 309 gave a shout out to Peanut at the end of his fight. And he was like, let's stop the misappropriation of taxpayer dollars because like, this was a huge operation that they moved in tons of troopers to like, go and take care of this squirrel. Meanwhile, there's all kinds of other problems people are thinking that this money should be going towards. But Yeah, it was just like kind of a wild twist and turn of events and one final turn that I didn't see coming. Uh, the more I read and I'm sure there's more information to discover, but apparently Mark and Daniela are also like really big deals on OnlyFans. Like they make porn and post it to OnlyFans and

• 39:50Mike Smith?

  Yeah, well, yeah, not probably how maybe some of you are imagining Peanut is involved in those, but

• 39:56Jeff Larson?

  They flirted with it.

• 39:58Mike Smith?

  Kind of a little bit. It's real strange, but people, so Mark and Daniela have since like accused maybe some people of jealousy, of narking on them, or maybe even that the feds moved in on their, or not the feds, but like the, the DEC, um, animal control to move in and like, used Peanut as kind of a front to investigate other things that might've been happening on their property, but like, they're making, they are making tons of money through their OnlyFans and Peanut was like, kind of a major player in like bringing attention to those accounts, so.

• 40:32Jeff Larson?

  Which is bad.

• 40:33Wes Larson?

  Makes me feel like a lot.

• 40:34Jeff Larson?

  To like, use a wild animal to like,

• 40:37Wes Larson?

  Get famous.

• 40:38Jeff Larson?

  Because that, well, and like that gets other people wanting squirrels and that's not like a good thing to start.

• 40:45Mike Smith?

  That's what I wanted to bring up for Wes.

• 40:47Wes Larson?

  I mean, I'm not, I'm not a perfect spokesperson for this because I, I have raised some wild animals and like,

• 40:54Jeff Larson?

  But you kinda knew you were doing something wrong.

• 40:57Wes Larson?

  I knew I was doing it wrong. Yeah. And like I've since kind of repented of that and I was doing it in a place that was much, no, to myself, to people. Uh, I was doing it in a much more rural place and I successfully reintroduced them to the wild, but I'm not a professional. I'm not someone that had the permit to be doing that. And you do need that kind of training to do it. And in New York, or where I think they were in New York, like it's illegal. You can't have a squirrel. There's a lot of reasons.

• 41:27Jeff Larson?

  And a raccoon even.

• 41:28Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Like a raccoon has roundworm that can literally put people into a coma. They can like cause all sorts of crazy problems. Um, there are lots of like zoonotic diseases that can be passed between these animals and humans. And then what Jeff just said too, it sets a really bad precedent for people and people then start taking animals from the wild that maybe do still have parents that do have all these things.

• 41:52Jeff Larson?

  Making OnlyFans.

• 41:54Wes Larson?

  Yeah, to get famous or to make money or whatever, and it's not fair to animals. Um. The thing I, the thing I don't agree with at all is that like, this was a waste of, of taxpayer money or whatever. Like, maybe they didn't know, need to go so hard, but like,

• 42:08Jeff Larson?

  Sure.

• 42:08Wes Larson?

  Our country spends a trillion dollars a year on our defense budget, you know? Like, I don't care if they had to spend a few thousand dollars extra to go get this squirrel into a better situation, you know? That doesn't matter to me.

• 42:21Jeff Larson?

  Better situation.

• 42:22Wes Larson?

  Well, yeah, I mean, they had to kill it, which sucks, but like, I don't think.

• 42:26Jeff Larson?

  I would, I would argue that's better.

• 42:28Wes Larson?

  I don't think that was their initial, original intent, you know? I think they wanted to get the squirrel out of there.

• 42:33Jeff Larson?

  Sure.

• 42:34Wes Larson?

  But don't do it. Don't get animals for clout.

• 42:36Jeff Larson?

  When Wes dies, God's like, well, you had three raccoons illegally, but you repented, so.

• 42:44Wes Larson?

  Yeah, so you're good.

• 42:46Mike Smith?

  Come on in.

• 42:47Wes Larson?

  Well, and here's the other thing.

• 42:49Jeff Larson?

  Peanut commented on Tommy Lee's thing at all? You said he's like a huge social media player. Do you think it's like Dane Cook and Peanut were like coyotes are bad?

• 43:00Wes Larson?

  No, I think the coyotes are getting pretty bad out there. Chirp chirp chirp. Give me some nuts.

• 43:05Mike Smith?

  Peanut's wife did appear on Saturday Night Live, apparently.

• 43:09Jeff Larson?

  Oh, really?

• 43:09Mike Smith?

  I think one of the cast members dressed up as a squirrel and it was a whole skit. It kind of turned into a, this is how unplugged I am from the internet. Like, this is just not on my radar at all.

• 43:19Jeff Larson?

  Well, I think also just the fact that you chose this story shows that you're like in Japan and not on social media. Cause this is like a hot topic, like politically loaded.

• 43:32Wes Larson?

  Some people think this is like what cost the Democrats the election.

• 43:36Jeff Larson?

  Uh, yeah.

• 43:38Mike Smith?

  That's what I saw. Yeah. Some people are like, even Mark himself, we, again, we don't want to get too political about it, but he's like, he thinks this actually played a part in Donald getting.

• 43:47Wes Larson?

  Maybe a tiny part.

• 43:48Mike Smith?

  Elected, elected. I don't know.

• 43:50Wes Larson?

  Tiny part, but I would just say like, one final thing, like, if, if this is your dream, if you need to own a wild animal, if you want to raise a raccoon or something, there are states where this is legal, so move to one of those states. If you have an animal in your possession right now and you care about it that much, that like, You're gonna go on shows and stuff and complain about it being taken away from you. If you actually care about it that much, move to a state where you can legally possess it. And then you can give it the life you want to give it. But if you live in a state where you can't, you're running a risk and you just have to accept.

• 44:24Jeff Larson?

  On especially if you're like blasting it in people's face. Like if you're, if you kind of just like keep it like between you and your friends and whoever. But if you like try to like push it onto the public, like, look at what I have in New York City. Right. Like you're asking for trouble, you know?

• 44:45Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 44:46Jeff Larson?

  And trouble.

• 44:47Wes Larson?

  Might help you get that OnlyFans money, though, finally, you know? Spice things up a little bit.

• 44:52Mike Smith?

  Rest in peace, Peanut.

• 44:53Jeff Larson?

  I bet you he'd do it again. Probably made a lot of money.

• 44:58Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 44:58Jeff Larson?

  Uh, all right.

• 45:01Jeff Larson?

  I have a question for my next one. So in Australia, what's a Kimberley man? Is that like a?

• 45:10Wes Larson?

  I feel like it might be.

• 45:11Jeff Larson?

  City or like? I was kind of thinking of saying he's more like a indigenous person too. I should have.

• 45:17Wes Larson?

  Like Kimberley's a place in Australia.

• 45:20Jeff Larson?

  Okay, that's what, for whatever reason, I just got mixed up a little bit because the person is like, uh, I forget the name of like the local, like indigenous people to Australia.

• 45:34Wes Larson?

  Yeah, he's a.

• 45:35Jeff Larson?

  But he's indigenous to Australia. So I was like, the way it read, I wasn't sure if it was saying like, this is like the Kimberley tribe or like he's from Kimberley. But he's from Kimberley.

• 45:46Wes Larson?

  Aboriginal is the word you're searching for.

• 45:48Jeff Larson?

  Aboriginal, yeah.

• 45:49Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 45:50Jeff Larson?

  Anyways, he's out spearfishing on November 18th, so just a few days ago. And, you know, it's kind of his like routine. He does, like, that's how he makes his living and he's out at the coast of One Arm Point, which, you know, I wonder why they call it that. They got crocodiles there.

• 46:11Mike Smith?

  For boating.

• 46:12Jeff Larson?

  So he's out spearfishing and a crocodile bites onto him and it's like trying to eat him. And he punches it in the nose and he says it let go. And then he like got away and it was a three meter crocodile, which isn't like super huge. But it's not like small.

• 46:28Wes Larson?

  It's not nothing.

• 46:30Jeff Larson?

  But apparently he didn't want to talk to the news and he went to the hospital for a few days and got out, but all this came from him talking to the cops and then the cops telling the news and the cops were kind of, uh, so the cops were, let me see, I have it. Barty Jawi Rangers and they were saying like, this guy's a good storyteller. So I'm sure we want to tell a story. It'll be like a great story.

• 46:55Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 46:55Jeff Larson?

  But that's all that's in there, but I just, whenever someone punches a crocodile, I'm going to tell people about it.

• 47:01Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 47:01Jeff Larson?

  No, yeah.

• 47:02Wes Larson?

  You're like Dane Cook and, and coyotes.

• 47:05Speaker 05

  I started Orna in 2013 and we make bike apparel. The best part of Shopify for me is our ability to run the business as essentially non-technical people. We're able to admin everything on the backend, frontend and sell things online easily. If Shopify were a bike accessory, I think it would actually be the bicycle. It's the thing that you do the thing on. We run the business on Shopify. Start your free trial on Shopify.com.

• 47:35Jeff Larson?

  Tooth and Claws brought to you by Aura. The best gifts feel like they're picked out just for you. That's why I love the Aura digital picture frames during the holidays. You can give your mom and grandpa the same gift and completely personalize it with all their favorite pictures. Mine, I have loaded up with pictures of baby animals. Right now I have capybara. It just what, it just switched to skunks. Uh, I love it. It makes me happy to see baby animals on my picture frame. Wirecutter called it the best digital photo frame and it's easy to see why. It takes no time to set up and get connected. Then you can add the perfect photos and videos for yourself from the app. Connects to your photo library and click the ones you want. Couldn't be easier. And if you get one, message

• 48:16Jeff Larson?

  me. I'll give you some baby animal pictures to put on there. For a limited time, visit AuraFrames.com and get $45 off Aura's best-selling Carver Matte Frames by using promo code TOOTH at checkout. That's A U R A Frames.com promo code TOOTH. The exclusive Black Friday/Cyber Monday deal is their best deal of the year, so don't miss out. Terms and conditions apply.

• 48:45Jeff Larson?

  I have some other short ones. I can just speed through everything I have right now.

• 48:50Wes Larson?

  Sure.

• 48:50Jeff Larson?

  Or wait.

• 48:51Wes Larson?

  Okay, I'm I'm done.

• 48:53Jeff Larson?

  Okay, so another one. Two new world records that I found. One ended up being something I found recently, but happened two years ago, but I'm still gonna share it. So the one that just happened is an emperor penguin swam 2,000 miles and ended up in Australia.

• 49:14Wes Larson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 49:14Jeff Larson?

  From Antarctica.

• 49:15Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 49:16Jeff Larson?

  Dang. Yeah, it's like in southern, uh, it's just like the furthest a penguin's ever swam on record. And like this Australian family was just like out on the beach. And then there was just an emperor penguin there and they're like, what's going on? It's just like them on and the penguin. And the video is great because the penguin like, isn't scared of them at all. The penguin just seems like, what's like, like, probably relieved to be on land, but also just like, this is different, you know? And, um, it was pretty underweight. It was 51 pounds and most male emperor penguins are like over a hundred pounds.

• 49:59Jeff Larson?

  So it lost a lot of weight swimming that far. There's probably just strong currents that kind of like got it, got him off path. But yeah, they're like, they have some, uh, bird biologist in the town. Uh, so it's like Denmark, it's called Denmark, Australia. And it happened November 1st, but anyways, like the bird biologist or whatever you call a bird.

• 50:23Wes Larson?

  Ornithologist.

• 50:24Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. Ornithologist of the town was just kind of like, yeah, you know what? I never really expected to be taking care of a penguin, but it's such a privilege to be able to like, look after this penguin. The penguin's just getting like cold misted every day and they're just figuring out like, what do we do next? Because,

• 50:43Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 50:44Jeff Larson?

  Um, and yeah, I don't know. I think it's cool. The animal, like it's cool to just think like, that's kind of what used to happen before humans controlled everything with wildlife is like, penguin takes a long, wrong turn. All of a sudden Australia has emperor penguins, you know?

• 51:03Wes Larson?

  Like,

• 51:03Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 51:05Wes Larson?

  It'd have to be two penguins taking a long turn.

• 51:07Jeff Larson?

  Just taking over, colonizing all the other birds in Australia.

• 51:12Mike Smith?

  Manifest destiny for penguins.

• 51:14Jeff Larson?

  Also, so this one actually happened in two thousand twenty two. But a bar tailed godwit, you know what those are Wes?

• 51:22Wes Larson?

  It's a bird, but I.

• 51:24Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, it's like a bird.

• 51:26Wes Larson?

  A shorebird almost.

• 51:27Jeff Larson?

  They can like, um, they like fly a lot like a fighter jet. Like they have like really good aerodynamics.

• 51:36Wes Larson?

  Yeah, it kind of looks like a plover, like, uh, yeah, I know what a godwit is.

• 51:39Jeff Larson?

  It broke the record for like a s- single flight that's ever happened and like New Zealand celebrates it now. Australia celebrates it, but, uh, they migrate from Alaska to New Zealand. These birds, which is like very far, but this bird decided to take like a right turn and go to Tasmania, Australia. So it flew eleven straight days from Alaska to Tasmania, flew eight thousand four hundred thirty five miles. And like.

• 52:14Mike Smith?

  What?

• 52:15Jeff Larson?

  Also lost like half of its weight just flying. They have like, their feet aren't webbed, so like, they can't really take breaks in the ocean. Uh, they can't like, they just have to keep flying. If they get too tired, they'll die. And it broke the record set by a different bar tailed godwit in twenty twenty by two hundred seventeen miles.

• 52:39Mike Smith?

  Oh, so like a pretty easy record, like it shattered it.

• 52:44Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. And then also, did you guys hear about the forty three monkeys that escaped in South Carolina?

• 52:52Wes Larson?

  Uh huh.

• 52:53Jeff Larson?

  There's like a.

• 52:54Wes Larson?

  Oh, no, I did from like a research facility, right?

• 52:56Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, yeah. Uh, it's like a South Carolina compound that breeds them for research. And they're macaques. And, uh, so there's like forty three of them that escaped. And to date, they've caught thirty nine of them, but four of them are still out there.

• 53:19Jeff Larson?

  And that happened like, uh, November sixth too. So they've been out there like a little while now.

• 53:25Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 53:27Jeff Larson?

  So yeah, four monkeys are still out on the loose. If we believe our Borneo dry uh guide, like we had a few guides in Borneo. They were saying that America does like a lot of pretty nasty research on macaques for like perfumes and different things. So like, I don't know, there might have been good reason for these macaques to like want to escape.

• 53:52Mike Smith?

  Get out of there. Yeah. Well, good for them, I guess, maybe.

• 53:55Jeff Larson?

  Those four, for sure.

• 53:57Mike Smith?

  Right, the four. They can do it, I believe.

• 54:01Jeff Larson?

  I hope they never catch him, honestly.

• 54:04Wes Larson?

  All right, um, let's go to our categories. So the first one is a favorite movie where someone gets framed because of the bears being framed for those crimes.

• 54:15Mike Smith?

  Uh, I'm gonna go with North by Northwest. It's my number one movie about that. It's one of my favorite movies ever. I love it.

• 54:22Wes Larson?

  All right.

• 54:22Mike Smith?

  Cary Grant, The Goat. Besides Nicholas Cage.

• 54:26Wes Larson?

  Since Jeff has three, I'll go next, because maybe I'll be using one of his. I'm gonna go with Gone Girl. Um, I think it's like one of my favorite Fincher movies. And it's just like such a satisfying kind of payoff. The book is great, um, really well acted, really dark. I just really like that movie. I think it's great.

• 54:47Jeff Larson?

  Really like when you listened, we listened to it when we were working with bears. I I didn't listen to all of it, but I listened to some of it. Like started halfway with you, but like that ending is just like, what is going on?

• 55:02Wes Larson?

  Yeah, the twist in the middle.

• 55:04Jeff Larson?

  How is he?

• 55:05Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 55:05Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. Um, all right. So I'm having a hard time picking a favorite. I'm doing just put them all three even.

• 55:14Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 55:14Jeff Larson?

  Uh, Paddington Two.

• 55:17Wes Larson?

  It's a great one.

• 55:17Mike Smith?

  All right.

• 55:18Wes Larson?

  Great pick.

• 55:19Jeff Larson?

  The Fugitive.

• 55:20Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 55:21Wes Larson?

  I knew that one would be in there.

• 55:22Jeff Larson?

  Fugitive.

• 55:23Mike Smith?

  Well, they're both great picks.

• 55:24Jeff Larson?

  And um, uh, you know, talking about Paddington, I just forgot my other one.

• 55:29Wes Larson?

  Is it Minority Report?

• 55:30Jeff Larson?

  I guess I'll just do.

• 55:31Wes Larson?

  Because that was on my list, too. Okay.

• 55:33Jeff Larson?

  Um. Oh, wait, I have it right here. Uh, Mission Impossible Four, when they like think they blew up that Russian. That famous like building in

• 55:44Wes Larson?

  What's that one called?

• 55:45Mike Smith?

  Ghost Protocol?

• 55:46Wes Larson?

  Something? Yeah.

• 55:47Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, a ghost.

• 55:48Mike Smith?

  Yeah, that one's great.

• 55:49Wes Larson?

  Mike, or no, all three of us, what's something you guys recommend from the month of November? That you've done or watched or seen or eaten or whatever, something you recommend from the last month?

• 56:02Jeff Larson?

  Uh, I'll go with Mike Tyson versus Jake Paul. Just keep, it's just such a great fight, broke all the records. Uh, saw Mike Tyson's ass. I'll, I'll go last.

• 56:14Wes Larson?

  See his ass, didn't we?

• 56:15Jeff Larson?

  I was doing a joke one.

• 56:17Wes Larson?

  I got, I got one that's kind of like a comfort thing for me that came out in November again. Um, it's been kind of a, a rough month for a lot of people. Uh, and one show that I really like to watch when I need just to pick me up is the Great British Baking Show, which started up again this month.

• 56:35Mike Smith?

  It's been great this year.

• 56:36Jeff Larson?

  Mike was telling me he has two of his favorite people ever. But he can say his two people. Or do you have anyone you like?

• 56:46Wes Larson?

  Not yet.

• 56:46Jeff Larson?

  Who's your like out of the gate favorite?

• 56:49Wes Larson?

  Uh, there's like a young girl that seems like she's maybe from like the middle, middle Asia.

• 56:55Mike Smith?

  Oh, Samaya?

• 56:56Wes Larson?

  Yeah, she's really, yeah, I really like her a lot, but I, I've only watched one episode, so I don't have a clear favorite yet. But it does, it just, that show just like picks me up. It just makes me feel like I put on a warm blanket. I just really like it.

• 57:10Mike Smith?

  It's so pleasant.

• 57:10Wes Larson?

  So I really recommend it.

• 57:11Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 57:12Jeff Larson?

  Who, who do you like in this season, Mike?

• 57:15Mike Smith?

  I liked Andy and Nellie. I love those two.

• 57:18Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 57:19Mike Smith?

  But.

• 57:19Jeff Larson?

  Mike texts me that like there maybe is two favorites that have ever been on.

• 57:25Mike Smith?

  They're so charming to me.

• 57:26Wes Larson?

  That's big.

• 57:27Mike Smith?

  They're like so real. They're such real, and that's what I love about that show is that like, I'm sure there are scripted elements and manufactured moments here and there, but it feels so much more genuine to me than any reality TV show that I've tried watching otherwise, or like.

• 57:42Wes Larson?

  At the end, it always shows the ones that are like still friends, like the contestants that are hanging out with each other and stuff. And it legitimately like makes me cry every time they do that little segment.

• 57:52Mike Smith?

  So cute.

• 57:53Wes Larson?

  Cause I'm just like, this is so special. They all just love each other so much and they're so different, but they've brought together by this amazing.

• 58:00Mike Smith?

  I always wonder, cause you always see at least like one little vignette of the first person that got eliminated. It's like, how well do you know these people? Like you were here for like two days. But you know, they're

• 58:11Jeff Larson?

  But then like the other people are like, we gotta invite him.

• 58:14Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that's honestly why I feel so bad for the the early eliminations because I'm like, oh, they don't get to be friends with everyone.

• 58:21Mike Smith?

  I know.

• 58:22Wes Larson?

  Yeah. So anyway, that's what I recommend.

• 58:25Mike Smith?

  So I read my favorite book so far of this year is called The Tainted Cup. I'm gonna look up the author, but it's this really cool story. It's a whodunit murder mystery kind of thing. Very Sherlock Holmesy where there's a Sherlock, you know, Holmes or a Watson kind of odd couple pairing. But it's in this really magical botanical world with kind of this larger framing device. That's kind of like Attack on Titan with the big wall and like big leviathans are threatening on the border. It's really cool. This guy, his name is Robert Jackson Bennett, and I just thought it was like such a fun new take on

• 59:07Mike Smith?

  kind of like a time-tested formula of like that murder mystery, but with a lot of really creative magical elements I'd never really encountered before. So if anyone's in a fantasy or mystery or both, ideally, that would be a great book. I'd point anyone towards it. The Tainted Cup.

• 59:26Jeff Larson?

  Uh, I'll go with Arcane, the new season of Arcane's releasing on Netflix. And also I got, uh, this little like, it's a little gimmicky, but I really like it. I got these LED lights on my, the back of my TV and it has like a camera that looks at my TV.

• 59:44Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 59:44Jeff Larson?

  And then like it changes the color and like it moves around with like the images. And Arcane just has like so many colors that it's like kind of fun to watch Arcane with the LED lights.

• 59:55Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 59:57Wes Larson?

  I can't wait to watch it. I like I, Jessie's going home for a few weeks to her family's house in December.

• 1:00:05Jeff Larson?

  So you gotta wait for her to come back.

• 1:00:07Wes Larson?

  I'm no, I'm, I'm waiting to watch it when she's gone because she doesn't watch it. And I just want to watch it with like no distractions, no anything.

• 1:00:14Mike Smith?

  Yeah, I haven't started it either. I'm so excited for it.

• 1:00:18Wes Larson?

  Cool. Mike, you've been in Japan for a little bit now. Uh, wanted to ask you, what's the best thing you've eaten and done in Japan?

• 1:00:27Mike Smith?

  Oh, man. Guys, I'm never coming home. This place is so great. Uh, the best thing I've done on the first day of the sumo, the grand sumo tournament of November down in Fukuoka, that was like so much more fun than I even was anticipating. I thought maybe it'd be a little repetitive and get a little boring by the end, but like, it was such a cool environment. It was really, really just an awesome experience.

• 1:00:51Jeff Larson?

  Is there like snacks and drinks in the stands or like what are you?

• 1:00:54Mike Smith?

  Yeah, so we got kind of like little box seats where you just sit on a little cushion. Um, and you can bring all the snacks and drinks you want up into it. And, uh, yeah, it was great. It was people of all ages. Everyone was stoked and like all the-

• 1:01:07Jeff Larson?

  Did you have like a favorite sumo?

• 1:01:09Mike Smith?

  Yeah, so Wakatake Kage has been my guy for a little while. I've been like watching it on stream every once in a while, but, um, it's fun because like all the women, they would scream when like-

• 1:01:20Jeff Larson?

  You saw him?

• 1:01:21Mike Smith?

  No, well, it's like, I-

• 1:01:23Jeff Larson?

  He was there?

• 1:01:23Mike Smith?

  I did. Yeah, he wrestled, but whenever like the hot sumo wrestler came out, like all the girls would scream and then like all the little boys had their signs that they would hold up for their favorite. It was really fun, but, um-

• 1:01:35Jeff Larson?

  Really?

• 1:01:36Mike Smith?

  That's my favorite thing we've done. The favorite thing I've eaten was, ah, man, there's like the red bean and butter taiaki. It's like these little fish pastry, fish shaped pastry. They don't taste like fish, but-

• 1:01:46Wes Larson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:01:46Mike Smith?

  Man, I can't get enough of those, but everything's been amazing that I've eaten, like literally everything.

• 1:01:52Wes Larson?

  Cool. Well, we're both-

• 1:01:54Jeff Larson?

  We're having a conversation before we, before you were on even less about ramen.

• 1:02:00Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:00Jeff Larson?

  That like me and Mike both are never like, let's go get ramen type of guys. Like we're, it's not like-

• 1:02:06Mike Smith?

  We like it.

• 1:02:07Jeff Larson?

  Food that's hard to like hate.

• 1:02:08Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:08Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:09Jeff Larson?

  But it's also like, we don't really get the hype. And you were saying that you got one that kind of got you to be like, okay, I get it.

• 1:02:16Wes Larson?

  I had my best ramen ever in Japan, too.

• 1:02:19Mike Smith?

  Yeah, like ramen in America, it's always like a six or a seven. It's always like very good, but I'm never blown away by it. But last night I kind of rocked my world.

• 1:02:27Jeff Larson?

  Jesse got me more into ramen. We waited an hour for a ramen place and it's just broth and noodles.

• 1:02:33Wes Larson?

  It wasn't that good. I liked that other place.

• 1:02:35Jeff Larson?

  People leaving were like, you're, it's so worth the wait. And I was just like, I don't know. I don't get it.

• 1:02:42Wes Larson?

  Their gyoza was really good.

• 1:02:45Wes Larson?

  All right, well, let's go to our next category. It is, oh yeah, so we had a listener on our Patreon who recommended we change the name of one of our categories, which was the two, uh, truth and a lie. And they said we should call it truth and flaw, which is really smart when you think about it. Uh, that was J-Man that said that. So, Mike, you're shaking your head.

• 1:03:09Jeff Larson?

  What's a smart about it?

• 1:03:11Wes Larson?

  Truth and flaw. It's like truth and claw, but truth and flaw for that category.

• 1:03:15Jeff Larson?

  I just like how you said, like, you gotta think about it.

• 1:03:19Wes Larson?

  You got it. I said, you gotta think about it?

• 1:03:22Jeff Larson?

  You're like, it's really smart when you think about it.

• 1:03:24Wes Larson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:03:25Jeff Larson?

  I think people did it like right over like without thinking too hard about it.

• 1:03:30Wes Larson?

  Yeah, got it. Yeah, you're right. That was the wrong choice of words, but I liked, I liked the name, truth and flaw.

• 1:03:37Mike Smith?

  Cute little name.

• 1:03:37Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. I like it too. I think it's, it's good.

• 1:03:40Wes Larson?

  So the, the boys, uh, the boys have decided that one of them is going to tell a real animal fact and one of them is going to tell a fake animal fact. And I have to do my best to discern which is real and which is a flaw. So.

• 1:03:55Jeff Larson?

  You can't, one of your ears is bad right now still, right?

• 1:03:59Wes Larson?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:04:00Jeff Larson?

  So here, plug your other ear.

• 1:04:02Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 1:04:02Jeff Larson?

  Mike, was I doing truth or lie?

• 1:04:05Mike Smith?

  Oh, I thought you were gonna do both. Wasn't that your idea to?

• 1:04:10Jeff Larson?

  You, you do, you do the lie. I'll do the truth.

• 1:04:14Mike Smith?

  Gotcha.

• 1:04:15Jeff Larson?

  Okay.

• 1:04:15Wes Larson?

  Okay, truth and flaw. Who's, who's going first?

• 1:04:18Jeff Larson?

  Uh, I can go first. Mine's either true or not true. So, baby sea otters aren't able to dive underwater for the first six weeks that they're born because their fur is too fluffy. So, every once in a while, out in the water, when they get separated from their moms, they'll drown because they end up face first in the water and they can't get themselves oxygen because they're too fluffy.

• 1:04:53Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 1:04:53Mike Smith?

  Mountain chickens build nests with foam that they secrete from their eggs.

• 1:04:59Wes Larson?

  From their eggs?

• 1:05:01Mike Smith?

  For their eggs.

• 1:05:02Jeff Larson?

  You can't change it.

• 1:05:04Wes Larson?

  I'm gonna say Mike's is the lie and Jeff's is the truth.

• 1:05:10Mike Smith?

  I just misread what I copied down.

• 1:05:13Jeff Larson?

  I'm just joking.

• 1:05:15Mike Smith?

  What uh, what'd you say Wes?

• 1:05:17Wes Larson?

  Yours is the flaw, Jeff's is the truth.

• 1:05:20Jeff Larson?

  Wrong.

• 1:05:21Mike Smith?

  Wrong, wrong.

• 1:05:22Wes Larson?

  Shoot.

• 1:05:23Mike Smith?

  Unbelievably wrong.

• 1:05:24Wes Larson?

  What is your fact? Okay.

• 1:05:27Wes Larson?

  Yours is half right, cuz I know that like otters can't.

• 1:05:30Jeff Larson?

  Mine's half right.

• 1:05:30Wes Larson?

  Okay, that's tricky.

• 1:05:31Jeff Larson?

  I made up the part of them drowning. I think they can flip themselves around.

• 1:05:36Wes Larson?

  I thought you might have been making that up, but I wasn't sure cuz I knew you got me with the half-truth.

• 1:05:41Jeff Larson?

  I'm doing my TikTok top 100 animals. I did sea otters today, so that's out of my brain.

• 1:05:47Mike Smith?

  Still going. I'm proud of you dude, sticking with it.

• 1:05:51Jeff Larson?

  I took a little bit off. I was very upset about um, I couldn't fit beavers onto the list and I was just

• 1:05:59Mike Smith?

  mad.

• 1:05:59Jeff Larson?

  really upset, so I had to take a break.

• 1:06:02Mike Smith?

  Well, I got some information about my fact. This one's, I did a little bit of trickery here too. So, mountain chickens build nests with foam they secrete for their eggs. Mountain chickens are actually frogs. They are part of the lepto dactylidae, uh, which they share with diverse group of frogs. Their name comes from how big they are. They can reach a weight of two pounds, which is like pretty huge for a frog. Uh, and they live down in Dominica in the Caribbean, Caribbean.

• 1:06:30Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I think when you said mountain chicken, I was like, that sounds like an animal Mike would make up. So that's why I went that direction.

• 1:06:38Jeff Larson?

  Andy misspoke at the start, so technically I think he's still.

• 1:06:42Mike Smith?

  Yeah, you're a winner.

• 1:06:43Wes Larson?

  I think we all, we're all winners or we're all losers. Who knows?

• 1:06:46Speaker 06

  At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet. Like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone and including dental, vision and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage, HMO and PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 1:07:18Jeff Larson?

  Tooth and Claw is brought to you by Element. Element helps anyone stay hydrated. Without the sugar or other dodgy ingredients found in popular electrolyte and sports drinks, electrolyte deficiency or imbalance can cause headaches, cramps, fatigue, brain fog, and weakness. I've been getting a lot of headaches recently, and let me tell you, Element helps it more than anything else. Me and Mike went to the second half of the Paris Olympics. Element's a hydration partner to Team USA Weightlifting and many other Olympic athletes. But honestly, it works for everyone. If you're trying to be healthy, get Element into your life. There's also chocolate mixes for your morning coffee. I haven't had these yet. I think Wes and Mike got some, but I need to get it because I love my morning coffee and I can't wait to mix it with Element

• 1:08:03Jeff Larson?

  because Element's delicious. Right now, Element is offering free sample packs with any purchases. That's eight single-serving packets free with any Element order. This is a great way to try all eight flavors or share Element with a salty friend. Get yours at drinklmnt.com/tooth. This deal is only available through my link. You must go to drinklmnt.com/tooth. Also, try the new Element Sparkling, a bold 16-ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water. Element knows it's good because everything is guaranteed, no questions asked. If you don't like it, just give it back and you'll have your money back.

• 1:08:46Wes Larson?

  All right. Let's do some listener questions. I got a couple from Patreon. So this one's from Jordan. Jordan says, "My name's..."

• 1:08:57Mike Smith?

  Or from the country, Jordan.

• 1:08:58Wes Larson?

  My name's Jordan.

• 1:08:59Mike Smith?

  Who knows?

• 1:08:59Wes Larson?

  I'm 10 years old. They spell it with a Y.

• 1:09:01Jeff Larson?

  The whole country.

• 1:09:02Mike Smith?

  Yeah, like the president or whatever they have over there.

• 1:09:06Wes Larson?

  My name's... I think they have a king in Jordan, don't they?

• 1:09:08Mike Smith?

  Oh, is that how it works?

• 1:09:09Wes Larson?

  They might, yeah. My name's... I don't think this is who we're talking to, though. I don't think this is the king of Jordan.

• 1:09:15Mike Smith?

  Okay.

• 1:09:16Wes Larson?

  Because Jordan's only 10. And Jordan says, "I wanted to know if you put a collar on a bear cub and they grow bigger, will the collar choke them? How do you know if it's hurting them? Thank you." So typically, we don't collar cubs because they do grow a lot. Sometimes you can collar them if you know you're going to be able to like capture that cub again not long after. But there are a lot of collars, especially for like grizzly bears where there's a spacer that as the bear grows, it actually spaces out and allows that collar some room for growth. And then like the collars that me and Jeff were using when we were coloring black bears have a little explosive charge that blows their head off. When you trigger it, no, I'm just kidding.

• 1:10:02Wes Larson?

  That I just, I beat you guys to it. That's our joke. It's a little explosive charge that when, when you blow it, it actually, it blows up the little mechanism that holds the collar together and the collar falls off the bear. So if we knew that there's a bear that had had a collar on long enough that we were worried about its growth or something, we could just trigger that collar to fall off. We also, me and Jeff went and visited them in their dens to check to make sure their collars weren't too tight. So there are, there's a few different things we do to make sure that doesn't happen. That's a great question, Jordan. All right. This one's for all three of us. Melanie says, here's a question. Who do you like better and why? Indiana Jones or Han Solo?

• 1:10:47Mike Smith?

  Ooh. Oh, man.

• 1:10:50Wes Larson?

  It's an easy one for me. It's Indiana Jones, without a doubt. And the reason why is I just like, like he was such an adventurer, but then he's also like a scholar and he's so charming and smooth. And Han Solo always seemed kind of like upset to me and Indiana Jones just seemed much more like cool. So that I like Indiana Jones.

• 1:11:10Jeff Larson?

  He gets pretty upset.

• 1:11:12Wes Larson?

  He does.

• 1:11:12Mike Smith?

  He does get a little, yeah.

• 1:11:14Jeff Larson?

  He's like mad at ev- he's mad that like every single thing isn't in museums.

• 1:11:19Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:20Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:20Mike Smith?

  He's kind of a crossy, young and then old man. He's always getting mad at his dad. His dad's Sean Connery. That's crazy. Who can get mad at that guy?

• 1:11:29Wes Larson?

  He's more jealous of his dad than anything to me. I love it. It's Indiana Jones easily for me. Yeah.

• 1:11:35Jeff Larson?

  I'll go Han Solo.

• 1:11:38Jeff Larson?

  I thought Han was cool. I don't know. I like.

• 1:11:41Wes Larson?

  They're both extremely cool characters without a doubt.

• 1:11:44Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. It's hard like when every other character has laser swords. Like to be the coolest person in the movie still and how somehow he pulled it off.

• 1:11:54Mike Smith?

  True. That's a good point. That's this is such a hard question for me because this is like. My life when I was little is just watching these six movies over and over and over again. I think I will go Han though. For a long time, Star Wars was my favorite thing like bar none. And it was a sad and cold day when I realized I didn't care about Star Wars anymore. And it was somewhere right around the prequels. Interestingly enough.

• 1:12:21Jeff Larson?

  Sad and cold days.

• 1:12:23Mike Smith?

  I do. That's true.

• 1:12:24Wes Larson?

  I like for me, Indian Jones, I thought was like a perfect movie Raiders was just like. I think it's the most rewatchable movie ever. So that's an easy one for me, but I think those are great picks and great reasons. Okay, I got one more from a patron. This one's from Missy. Missy says, I watched a video. Of a wolf sneaking up on a sleeping grizzly next to a carcass. The bear got up, took a few steps. The wolf backed off a few steps, but lingered like a dance. It was a mild argument at a bar, but if a human were to sneak up, we seem to get mauled or killed. Why are grizzlies so nonchalant with wolves? So much more nonchalant with wolves than us. Should we just drop down on all fours and act like we're no longer interested?

• 1:13:07Jeff Larson?

  Oh, that's a good like, what would Jeff and Mike do? Just act.

• 1:13:10Wes Larson?

  Yeah, Missy actually put that in the end. What would Mike and Jeff do? Ha ha.

• 1:13:15Mike Smith?

  That apparently.

• 1:13:16Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Uh, yeah, it's a great question. I think a big part of this probably is that. Grizzlies have evolved a biological response to a wolf coming up to them on a carcass. It's happened to them enough over history that they kind of know what to expect from that interaction. And we don't, we don't do it. And so they don't, it's an unknown thing for them. So they attack us like they think that maybe we're trying to take it from them. Or hurt them or something else. And with a wolf, they know they can beat the wolf in a fight. They know that the wolf's probably going to wait its turn until the grizzly's finished eating. So they already have that response evolved to that. And that would be my best guess for this, but I.

• 1:13:59Wes Larson?

  I'll admit, I don't know a hundred percent, but that's probably what it is.

• 1:14:02Jeff Larson?

  I think it is a kind of an interesting point that it's hard to really answer. Like, like, the silly part of it, I think, is actually kind of interesting about what if we were just on all fours?

• 1:14:15Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:16Jeff Larson?

  Because I do think it's a little threatening how tall we are compared to a bear when we walk up to them. Like, we seem, like, even if we're like the same weight as a wolf, we seem big because we're like standing up. We're like over the bear, you know?

• 1:14:32Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:32Jeff Larson?

  And like a wolf is like already kind of like below the eye level of the bear. Maybe that's like a little less threatening to like walk up on.

• 1:14:41Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:41Mike Smith?

  Sure.

• 1:14:42Wes Larson?

  That could be it for sure. That could play into it. I think, I think like we talked about this with three ninety nine and bears that like bear jams. That they get so used to expecting the same behavior from animals or people or whatever. That when something breaks that behavior, it's weird for them. And wolves have acted that same way with bears for so long that it's normal. But we don't do that with them. We don't approach them on carcasses, so it's weird. But I, I don't know.

• 1:15:10Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:10Wes Larson?

  It's a great question. It's gonna, it's one I'm gonna think about. So, thank you, Missy. All right, Jeff, you got any from listeners?

• 1:15:18Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. All right. From Instagram.

• 1:15:23Jeff Larson?

  Would Mike, or from Surin Flor- Floraco. Would Mike be more okay with getting an unsolicited hug from Wes or Jeff?

• 1:15:36Mike Smith?

  Uh, Wes. Je- Jeff and our, our relationship is different in that way. You know, it's like, uh, I can't imagine physically touching Jeff in any manner at all. And not because I'm like disgusted by him.

• 1:15:50Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. But you wouldn't kiss me?

• 1:15:51Mike Smith?

  No, I would kiss Wes though, and we did in Zimbabwe.

• 1:15:56Jeff Larson?

  As a joke?

• 1:15:56Wes Larson?

  That's true. I feel like you guys are, are closer because you've lived together and everything. And so it's, it's kind of like the bear with the wolves. Like, you don't, you've evolved this response to Jeff, but you don't really have that same one with me. So it wouldn't seem so out of the ordinary for me to give you a hug.

• 1:16:14Mike Smith?

  It's not abnormal for us to hug each other. I don't think I've ever once hugged Jeff. Have we? I don't think we have.

• 1:16:20Wes Larson?

  Interesting.

• 1:16:21Mike Smith?

  Let's keep it that way.

• 1:16:22Wes Larson?

  Each other next time you see each other. Yeah.

• 1:16:24Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, I don't know. Maybe, maybe we should just get married.

• 1:16:30Mike Smith?

  Tax purposes, I don't know, at this point, we're running out of time, dude.

• 1:16:34Jeff Larson?

  Bikel Thomas says, body of a chimp with head of Jeff versus body of Jeff with head of chimp. Who's winning? So if you put my head on the chimp and the chimp's head on my body, what wins?

• 1:16:50Wes Larson?

  Good question.

• 1:16:50Jeff Larson?

  So it's like my mind on the chimp's body. So I got like the chimp's strength.

• 1:16:56Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:56Jeff Larson?

  But the chimps got my body with its like huge jaws.

• 1:17:00Mike Smith?

  For some reason, his name.

• 1:17:02Jeff Larson?

  It's kind of a good fight.

• 1:17:03Mike Smith?

  I was incorporating a bicycle into that equation because of his name. That was like a body of a bike.

• 1:17:09Jeff Larson?

  And it's, it's not, it's not actually bike. It's like Michael with a B.

• 1:17:17Mike Smith?

  Oh, weird. Okay. Cool.

• 1:17:18Jeff Larson?

  That's how it's spelled.

• 1:17:19Mike Smith?

  Bikel. I like that.

• 1:17:22Wes Larson?

  I think your last one was from Siren Floral Co. too.

• 1:17:26Mike Smith?

  Siren.

• 1:17:27Wes Larson?

  A friend of mine. Anyway.

• 1:17:29Jeff Larson?

  Floral Co? Yeah.

• 1:17:30Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Yeah. She's a florist.

• 1:17:32Mike Smith?

  That's what I said. I need to pick up some tips from her.

• 1:17:36Wes Larson?

  I think I'm gonna go, I think I'm gonna go with Jeff's head on the body of a chimp. Because I think our main weapon over a chimp is our intelligence and their main weapon is their strength. So I don't think the teeth are enough to like put the other one over the edge. So I'd put your head on the body.

• 1:17:51Mike Smith?

  I agree with that.

• 1:17:52Wes Larson?

  I'd put a big bet on that, I think. Yeah.

• 1:17:54Jeff Larson?

  I'm gonna go with the chimp's head on my body. I can bench 200 pounds once, two years ago. And uh.

• 1:18:00Mike Smith?

  That's good.

• 1:18:01Jeff Larson?

  With those teeth, I'm doing like some damage to my face.

• 1:18:07Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 1:18:08Mike Smith?

  You've changed my mind.

• 1:18:09Jeff Larson?

  Uh, favorite F, uh, from Wilderness, favorite F1 driver?

• 1:18:15Wes Larson?

  Lewis Hamilton. Kind of basic, but I really like him. I like his advocacy. Think he's a good person. I really like him.

• 1:18:23Jeff Larson?

  I think enough people have started hating Verstappen. I'm kind of starting to like him again.

• 1:18:29Wes Larson?

  That sounds like.

• 1:18:29Jeff Larson?

  But uh, I've always liked Perez. Perez from Mexico's been my favorite.

• 1:18:35Wes Larson?

  I like Perez a lot.

• 1:18:37Jeff Larson?

  He's not doing great this year.

• 1:18:38Wes Larson?

  No.

• 1:18:39Mike Smith?

  Uh, Ricardo, I guess.

• 1:18:42Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:42Mike Smith?

  He's just a infinitely likable.

• 1:18:45Wes Larson?

  He's pretty much done. Yeah.

• 1:18:47Jeff Larson?

  All right. Uh, Nicole Agiri asks, um, if capitalism wasn't a thing, what job would you want to do?

• 1:18:57Jeff Larson?

  So pretty much, I think like if there weren't like money tiers and like supporting family or whatever, just like if you could have any job you wanted without any like capitalistic, like if everything, you know, I mean, like if you, if like every job you work for free, maybe type of thing, what job would you want?

• 1:19:17Wes Larson?

  Yeah, like I really love my job. I would have a hard time picking anything better than bear biologist. But I will say I had a roommate who his job was like, he would go just check people's gas meters. Or like he didn't even have to go into their yards, I don't think. And it was just, he just walked around all day and like listened to podcasts and music. And when he checked out of his job, he never thought about his job when he was at home. It was just like, no one was emailing him, no one was trying to get a hold of him. And it just sounded really peaceful to me. So I'm not saying that job, but I would love, I love my job, but I someday, some days I do dream about a job where like you leave it. When you're done, you don't have to think about it at all.

• 1:20:02Jeff Larson?

  Right. No, I had that little bit with my Japanese beetle job, I think, too, where I just drove around looking for Japanese beetles.

• 1:20:10Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:11Jeff Larson?

  I'd probably go garbage man. I don't know. I've always just had a fascination with like, I think it's just like such a service to the public, which like I would love to contribute to cleaning up garbage. And then like, I don't know, for whatever reason, I has seemed fun to me.

• 1:20:29Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:30Jeff Larson?

  Every once in a while, you get like a dead body in one of them and you like go home.

• 1:20:34Wes Larson?

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:20:35Jeff Larson?

  There's a chopped up body in the garbage today.

• 1:20:38Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:39Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:40Mike Smith?

  Um, who are you saying that to? Just anybody? Anyone who will listen? Your, your kids when you go home?

• 1:20:46Wes Larson?

  To you guys. You guys are married.

• 1:20:47Jeff Larson?

  Hypothetical wife and kids.

• 1:20:49Mike Smith?

  Mine's along a similar line. I had a, a really fulfilling time when I was just put on a, a riding lawnmower at a golf course, because you get that sense of like accomplishment. Like mowing lawns, I don't know what it is, maybe, maybe some women out there, but for men, it seems like it's kind of coded into our DNA that like, it's something we really like and need to do. And I'm, I'm part of that group, I guess. It's, it smells good.

• 1:21:13Wes Larson?

  I don't enjoy it.

• 1:21:14Mike Smith?

  Put on a big floppy hat, keep the sun off of you and just listen to music and mow some rough and some fairways all day. I thought that was really pleasant.

• 1:21:22Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, Wes just makes his horses do it.

• 1:21:26Wes Larson?

  It's true.

• 1:21:27Jeff Larson?

  Uh, oh, shoot. This one I had to screenshot because there's a picture and I don't have the person's name, but they'll know who they are because I've never gotten one quite like this. So you gotta just choose your favorite ant.

• 1:21:40Wes Larson?

  Your favorite?

• 1:21:41Jeff Larson?

  Bullet ant.

• 1:21:42Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 1:21:42Jeff Larson?

  Trapjaw, Fire, Honey Pot, Saharan Silver. It's the fastest ant, basically mini flashes. Weaver can spray acid. Carpenter can spray acid and OG. Turtle, living bunker doors. Leafcutter, cool little dudes. Ecton, army ants that look like mammoths, or Bulldog Ant. What's your favorite ant?

• 1:22:09Wes Larson?

  It's Bullet for me.

• 1:22:11Mike Smith?

  I'll go with Weaver. Spraying acids, cool.

• 1:22:13Jeff Larson?

  I like Weaver ants. Yeah.

• 1:22:15Wes Larson?

  All right. Thanks, everyone, for sending in questions. We appreciate it. Uh, yeah, I think that's it for this week. We got a couple of announcements.

• 1:22:24Jeff Larson?

  Well, let's shout out. So Patreon, you can now gift to other people, which, just in time for the holidays. You know, I'm not even saying ours. Just, I'm just letting people know that Patreon allows that capability.

• 1:22:37Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:38Jeff Larson?

  You know, use it, use that information, however you like.

• 1:22:41Mike Smith?

  I like how you did that.

• 1:22:42Jeff Larson?

  But I would say if, like, your significant other or family member doesn't gift you a Patreon subscription, like, how much do they really love you?

• 1:22:53Wes Larson?

  Right. They probably don't like you that much at all. I will say too, like, for ours, we, we offer an annual subscription and it's at a discounted rate. So I think it's a really great gift. We remain, like, committed to continuing to post exclusive content just for our subscribers. So if you are looking for, like, a kind of out of the box gift that keeps on giving, I think that's a really good one.

• 1:23:18Mike Smith?

  Imagine it's about the same amount of content that you get for free, you'll get exclusive to subscription. So twice as much Tooth and Claw, basically.

• 1:23:27Jeff Larson?

  One more plug from me is just, uh, I put, like, a decent amount of work into our Tooth and Claw merch store. And it's been doing really well and we're like with like a bigger company this season. So we're like every order is going to get to you before Christmas if you order when you listen to this. And I'm just thinking like the quality and everything I'm pretty excited about. So yeah, check out tooth and claw merch.com. If you need any last minute Christmas.

• 1:24:01Wes Larson?

  It's a great lineup.

• 1:24:03Mike Smith?

  Really cool.

• 1:24:03Jeff Larson?

  I guess not last minute.

• 1:24:05Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:06Jeff Larson?

  A month ahead Christmas gifts.

• 1:24:08Wes Larson?

  Uh, one other thing too. We spoke about Patreon really quick, but another benefit to Patreon is that you get to hear about any trips that we're taking first. And we have sold out all of our trips so far, except for one upcoming one to Brazilian Pantanal, which will be next August. That trip is going to go live.

• 1:24:27Jeff Larson?

  It's like a dream trip for me.

• 1:24:29Wes Larson?

  Yeah, it's going to go live on Patreon. The day after this episode comes out wide. So on 26th of November, um, and Patreon is going to have first access to that. So if you want access to that, you can subscribe and then you can unsubscribe as soon as you want, if you want. But, uh, that will be going live on the 26th and will fill up. So check it out.

• 1:24:52Jeff Larson?

  And I'll say too, like, obviously, thank you so much to our Apple subscribers. Like, it means the world to us. Um, but like Patreon does allow us to do some more exclusive stuff.

• 1:25:04Wes Larson?

  Like community posts.

• 1:25:06Jeff Larson?

  Exclusive messaging.

• 1:25:07Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:07Jeff Larson?

  So that's kind of why we single out Patreon sometimes.

• 1:25:11Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Apple's great if you just are in it for the convenience of having that episode show up right in your Apple feed. Super convenient. We love our Apple Griz Club. So, all right. Well, thanks, guys. Mike, have fun in Japan. Uh, eat some good food for us.

• 1:25:26Mike Smith?

  Will do.

• 1:25:27Wes Larson?

  And we'll see you soon.

• 1:25:29Mike Smith?

  See you guys.

• 1:25:30Jeff Larson?

  All right. See you. Love you.

• 1:25:33Wes Larson?

  Love you.