#636: The Big Reveal: The Legend of CØCKPUNCH — Kevin Rose and Tim Ferriss on Tim’s New and Extremely Bizarre Art Project

Brought to you by Maui Nui Venison https://mauinuivenison.com/tim wildly delicious venison, Athletic Greens http://athleticgreens.com/tim all-in-one nutritional supplement, and Allform http://allform.com/tim premium, modular furniture. Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show http://tim.blog/podcast, where it is usually my job to interview world-class performers to tease out the routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own life. This episode is something different. It’s an exploration of my creative process, how I think about first principles, and how to get serious things done without being serious all the time. In this case, I am the guest and Kevin Rose http://twitter.com/kevinrose (@KevinRose https://twitter.com/kevinrose) is the host. Who is Kevin? Kevin is a technologist, serial entrepreneur, world-class investor, self-experimenter, and all-around wild and crazy guy. For more on The Legend of CØCKPUNCH™ http://cockpunch.com, visit cockpunch.com http://cockpunch.com and follow on Twitter (@cockpunch http://twitter.com/@cockpunch). Mint date is coming up soon, so make sure to follow that Twitter account for news, as well as @tferriss https://twitter.com/@tferriss and @TimTimNifties https://twitter.com/timtimnifties. I will also be announcing next steps via my newsletter, and you can sign up at tim.blog/friday https://go.tim.blog/5-bullet-friday-1/. Please note: 100% of NFT primary sale proceeds are being donated to the Saisei Foundation http://saiseifoundation.org, a registered 501(c)(3) nonprofit private foundation that funds cutting-edge scientific research and other initiatives related to psychedelic medicine, mental health therapeutics, and much more. The episode you’re about to hear was originally published on the PROOF podcast https://podcasts.proof.xyz/, a podcast hosted by Kevin, which provides in-depth NFT coverage. The PROOF podcast https://www.proof.xyz/ is part of PROOF https://www.proof.xyz/ (@proof_xyz https://twitter.com/proof_xyz). PROOF https://www.proof.xyz/ is creating community-centric products that celebrate art, connect collectors, and activate creative entrepreneurship. Under the PROOF umbrella, they have the PROOF Collective, a private collective of 1,000 dedicated NFT collectors and artists. There is also Grails—which I am a part of—PROOF-curated collections with artists revealed post-mint. Moonbirds, of course. A collection of 10,000 utility-enabled PFPs featuring a diverse pool of traits. There’s more and more. Kevin is doing a phenomenal job, and I suggest you check out what they’re doing. And now, let’s take a trip to crazy town, shall we? I hope you enjoy this as much as I did… * This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim. I get asked all the time, “If you could use only one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1 https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim by Athletic Greens https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system. Right now, Athletic Greens https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim is offering you their Vitamin D Liquid Formula free with your first subscription purchase—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit AthleticGreens.com/Tim https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim to claim this special offer today and receive the free Vitamin D Liquid Formula (and five free travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive all-in-one daily greens product. * This episode is also brought to you by Maui Nui Venison https://click.fourhourmail.com/d0uz8zgkzxc0h4oxn53a9/x0hph6hnv35mv4t5/aHR0cHM6Ly9tYXVpbnVpdmVuaXNvbi5jb20vcGFnZXMvdGlt. I’ve been eating Maui Nui Venison https://mauinuivenison.com/pages/tim for the past two years, and there’s no going back. My pantry and freezers are full of it, and I restock every month. Why? (1) If I combine Maui Nui Venison with even a little exercise, I drop body fat unbelievably quickly. (2) It tastes delicious and isn’t gamey. (3) Ethically, I feel great about Maui Nui protein, as axis deer are an invasive species on Maui, where their population needs to be managed in order to protect vulnerable ecosystems. Harvested using stress-free methods, Maui Nui’s fresh venison is clean-tasting, tender, and one of the most nutrient-dense meats on the planet. Maui Nui is a nearly daily go-to for me, both as a supplement to my daily diet (with broth, jerky snacks, etc.) and through main courses (via their fresh-meat subscription program). I fell in love with this company so much that I ended up investing, which is a rarity. Tim Ferriss Show listeners can get 15% off on practically everything Maui Nui is offering by visiting MauiNuiVenison.com/Tim http://MauiNuiVenison.com/Tim! Just use code TIM at checkout. This is the first discount they have done in more than a year, so you are getting something special, folks! * This episode is also brought to you by Allform http://allform.com/tim! If you’ve been listening to the podcast for a while, you’ve probably heard me talk about Helix Sleep mattresses, which I’ve been using since 2017. They also launched a company called Allform http://allform.com/tim that makes premium, customizable sofas and chairs shipped right to your door—at a fraction of the cost of traditional stores. You can pick your fabric (and they’re all spill, stain, and scratch resistant), the sofa color, the color of the legs, and the sofa size and shape to make sure it’s perfect for you and your home. Allform http://allform.com/tim arrives in just 3–7 days, and you can assemble it yourself in a few minutes—no tools needed. To find your perfect sofa and receive 20% off all orders, check out Allform.com/Tim http://allform.com/Tim. * For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show http://tim.blog/podcast, please visit tim.blog/podcast https://tim.blog/podcast/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast-description. For deals from sponsors of The Tim Ferriss Show http://tim.blog/podcast, please visit tim.blog/podcast-sponsors http://tim.blog/podcast-sponsors Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at tim.blog/friday https://go.tim.blog/5-bullet-friday-1/. For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts http://tim.blog/transcripts. Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books http://tim.blog/books. Follow Tim: Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss https://twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferriss https://instagram.com/timferriss/ YouTube: youtube.com/timferriss https://www.youtube.com/timferriss Facebook: facebook.com/timferriss https://www.facebook.com/TimFerriss/ LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timferriss http://linkedin.com/in/timferriss Past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show http://tim.blog/podcast include Jerry Seinfeld https://tim.blog/2020/12/08/jerry-seinfeld/, Hugh Jackman https://tim.blog/2020/06/26/hugh-jackman/, Dr. Jane Goodall https://tim.blog/2020/04/16/jane-goodall/, LeBron James https://tim.blog/2018/11/27/lebron-james-mike-mancias/, Kevin Hart https://tim.blog/2020/05/20/kevin-hart/, Doris Kearns Goodwin https://tim.blog/2018/09/07/doris-kearns-goodwin-leadership/, Jamie Foxx https://tim.blog/2015/12/06/jamie-foxx/, Matthew McConaughey https://tim.blog/2020/10/19/matthew-mcconaughey/, Esther Perel https://tim.blog/2017/05/21/esther-perel/, Elizabeth Gilbert https://tim.blog/2020/05/08/elizabeth-gilbert/, Terry Crews https://tim.blog/2017/12/20/terry-crews-how-to-have-do-and-be-all-you-want/, Sia https://tim.blog/2020/08/12/sia/, Yuval Noah Harari https://tim.blog/2020/10/27/yuval-noah-harari/, Malcolm Gladwell https://tim.blog/2016/06/21/malcolm-gladwell/, Madeleine Albright https://tim.blog/2020/05/27/secretary-madeleine-albright/, Cheryl Strayed https://tim.blog/2017/03/30/cheryl-strayed/, Jim Collins https://tim.blog/2019/02/18/jim-collins/, Mary Karr, https://tim.blog/2020/11/11/mary-karr/ Maria Popova https://tim.blog/2014/10/21/brain-pickings/, Sam Harris https://tim.blog/2020/05/15/sam-harris-2/, Michael Phelps https://tim.blog/2021/01/21/michael-phelps-grant-hackett/, Bob Iger https://tim.blog/2020/01/16/bob-iger/, Edward Norton https://tim.blog/2019/10/31/edward-norton-motherless-brooklyn/, Arnold Schwarzenegger https://tim.blog/2015/02/02/arnold-schwarzenegger/, Neil Strauss https://tim.blog/2014/06/24/neil-strauss/, Ken Burns https://tim.blog/2019/09/12/ken-burns/, Maria Sharapova https://tim.blog/2017/08/26/maria-sharapova/, Marc Andreessen https://tim.blog/2016/05/29/marc-andreessen/, Neil Gaiman https://tim.blog/2019/03/28/neil-gaiman/, Neil de Grasse Tyson https://tim.blog/2019/10/03/neil-degrasse-tyson/, Jocko Willink https://tim.blog/2016/09/21/jocko-willink-on-discipline-leadership-and-overcoming-doubt/, Daniel Ek https://tim.blog/2020/12/03/daniel-ek/, Kelly Slater https://tim.blog/2020/09/08/kelly-slater/, Dr. Peter Attia https://tim.blog/2019/11/27/peter-attia-fasting-metformin-longevity/, Seth Godin https://tim.blog/2016/02/10/seth-godin/, Howard Marks https://tim.blog/2018/09/25/howard-marks/, Dr. Brené Brown https://tim.blog/2020/02/06/brene-brown-striving-self-acceptance-saving-marriages/, Eric Schmidt https://tim.blog/2019/04/09/eric-schmidt/, Michael Lewis https://tim.blog/2020/05/01/michael-lewis/, Joe Gebbia https://tim.blog/2018/03/08/joe-gebbia-co-founder-of-airbnb/, Michael Pollan https://tim.blog/2018/05/06/michael-pollan-how-to-change-your-mind/, Dr. Jordan Peterson https://tim.blog/2021/03/01/jordan-peterson/, Vince Vaughn https://tim.blog/2017/05/31/vince-vaughn/, Brian Koppelman https://tim.blog/2020/04/23/brian-koppelman/, Ramit Sethi https://tim.blog/2019/05/07/ramit-sethi/, Dax Shepard https://tim.blog/2020/11/18/dax-shepard/, Tony Robbins https://tim.blog/2014/10/15/money-master-the-game/, Jim Dethmer https://tim.blog/2020/05/18/jim-dethmer/, Dan Harris https://tim.blog/2020/11/19/dan-harris/, Ray Dalio https://tim.blog/2017/09/13/ray-dalio/, Naval Ravikant https://tim.blog/2015/08/18/the-evolutionary-angel-naval-ravikant/, Vitalik Buterin https://tim.blog/2021/03/08/vitalik-buterin-naval-ravikant/, Elizabeth Lesser https://tim.blog/2021/03/16/elizabeth-lesser/, Amanda Palmer https://tim.blog/2019/04/18/amanda-palmer-2/, Katie Haun https://tim.blog/2021/02/18/katie-haun/, Sir Richard Branson https://tim.blog/2017/10/09/richard-branson/, Chuck Palahniuk https://tim.blog/2020/09/02/chuck-palahniuk/, Arianna Huffington https://tim.blog/2017/10/18/arianna-huffington/, Reid Hoffman https://tim.blog/2015/08/31/the-oracle-of-silicon-valley-reid-hoffman-plus-michael-mccullough/, Bill Burr https://tim.blog/2017/09/17/bill-burr/, Whitney Cummings https://tim.blog/2015/06/26/whitney-cummings/, Rick Rubin https://tim.blog/2015/05/15/rick-rubin/, Dr. Vivek Murthy https://tim.blog/2020/03/26/vivek-murthy/, Darren Aronofsky https://tim.blog/2017/09/09/darren-aronofsky/, Margaret Atwood https://tim.blog/2022/02/22/margaret-atwood/, Mark Zuckerberg https://tim.blog/2022/03/24/mark-zuckerberg/, Peter Thiel https://tim.blog/2014/09/09/peter-thiel/, Dr. Gabor Maté https://tim.blog/2018/02/20/gabor-mate/, Anne Lamott https://tim.blog/2021/07/09/anne-lamott/, Sarah Silverman https://tim.blog/2022/01/12/sarah-silverman/, Dr. Andrew Huberman https://tim.blog/2021/07/06/andrew-huberman/, and many more. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Maui Nui Venison, wildly delicious venison. Maui Nui is one of my favorite things on the entire planet. It has been for quite a while. I've been eating Maui Nui Venison for now the past three plus years and there's no going back. My pantry and freezers are full of it. I restock every month. Why would I do this? One, if I combine Maui Nui Venison with even a little exercise, I drop body fat unbelievably quickly. And Axis deer have roughly 2% body fat. It's incredibly lean. Two, it's very tender, not gamey at all, tastes delicious, and it's one of the most nutrient dense meats on the planet.

• 0:41Tim Ferriss?

  I would go so far as to say it is the most nutrient dense meat I have ever found because of the rich volcanic soils, remarkable plant diversity, and so on, including wild grazing. So I literally 10 minutes ago just finished eating some leftovers of ground Axis deer. This is Maui Nui Venison with some canned chili, just organic chili, beans and so on, that I put into a pan and cooked for 10 minutes. And I would rather eat that than a $500 meal in New York City, honestly. It makes me happier on a deep level to eat this and it makes me healthier on a fundamental level. So number three, ethically, I feel great about Maui Nui protein.

• 1:26Tim Ferriss?

  Axis deer are an invasive species on Maui where their population needs to be managed in order to protect vulnerable ecosystems. I think the number that was introduced was perhaps maybe six deer in 1959, something like that. And unmanaged, that population could grow to, I think it's 200,000 within the next 20 years. So using stress-free harvesting methods, Maui Nui prevents environmental destruction caused by Axis deer overpopulation, which literally looks like wildfire damage from helicopter. So back to the story. I love this stuff that much, should be clear. I eat it all the time. I use their dog treats for Molly. I use their broth, which is second to

• 2:10Tim Ferriss?

  None in terms of nutritional profile. Maui Nui's Fresh Venison is a nearly daily go to for me, both as a supplement to my daily diet. That's broth, jerks, snacks, et cetera, that I mentioned, and through main courses like last night via their fresh meat subscription program. And the cuts are all spectacular. Leg medallions are one of my favorites. I fell in love with this company so much and the husband and wife co-founders behind it that I ended up investing. And that is a huge rarity, especially with this type of company. Tim Ferriss Show listeners can get 15% off of practically everything Maui Nui is offering by visiting maui venison.com/tim. Just use code TIM at checkout. This is the first discount they have made available in more than a year.

• 2:55Tim Ferriss?

  So you are getting something special, folks. That's maui venison.com/tim, spelled M A U I N U I venison. Maui venison.com/tim and use code TIM at checkout. You can also find the link in this episode's description.

• 3:15Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Allform. If you've been listening to this podcast for a while, you've probably heard me talk about Helix Sleep and their mattresses, which I've been using since 2017. I have two of them upstairs from where I'm sitting at this moment. Helix has gone beyond the bedroom and started making sofas. They've launched a company called Allform, A L L F O R M. And they're making premium customizable sofas and chairs shipped right to your door at a fraction of the cost of traditional stores. So I'm sitting in my living room right now and it's entirely Allform furniture. I've got two chairs, I've got an ottoman, and I have an L sectional couch. And I'll come back to that. You can pick your fabric. They're all spill, stain and scratch resistant. The sofa color, the color of the legs, the sofa size, the shape to make sure it's perfect for you in your home.

• 4:01Tim Ferriss?

  Also, Allform arrives in just three to seven days and you can assemble it all yourself in a few minutes. No tools needed. I was quite astonished by how modular and easy these things fit together, kind of like Lego pieces. They've got armchairs, love seats, all the way up to an eight seat sectional. So there's something for everyone. You can also start small and kind of build on top of it if you wanted. Get a smaller couch and then build out on it, which is actually in a way what I did, because I can turn my L sectional couch into a normal straight couch and then with a separate ottoman in a matter of about 60 seconds. It's pretty rad. So I mentioned I have all of these different things in this room. I used the natural leg finish, which is their lightest color, and I dig it. I mean, I've been using these things hours and hours and hours every

• 4:43Tim Ferriss?

  single day. So I am using what I am sharing with you guys. And if getting a sofa without trying it in store sounds risky, you don't need to worry. Allform sofas are delivered directly to your home with fast free shipping and you get 100 days to decide if you want to keep it. That's more than three months. And if you don't love it, they'll pick it up for free and give you a full refund. Your sofa frame also has a forever warranty. That's literally forever. So check it out. Take a look. They've got all sorts of cool stuff to choose from. I was skeptical and it actually worked. It worked much better than I could have imagined and I'm very, very happy. So to find your perfect sofa, check out allform.com/tim. That's A-L-L-F-O-R-M.com/tim. Allform is offering 20% off all orders to you, my dear listeners, at allform.com/tim.

• 5:28Tim Ferriss?

  Make sure to use the code TIM at checkout. That's allform.com/tim and use code TIM at checkout.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking.

• 5:41Speaker 02

  Can I ask you a personal question?

• 5:43Speaker 01

  No, we're the same in a perfect time.

• 5:47Speaker 02

  I'm a cybernetic organism, living tissue or metal entusiasm.

• 5:59Tim Ferriss?

  Welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferriss Show, where it is usually my job to interview and deconstruct world-class performers, to tease out the routines, habits, and so on, that you can apply in your own lives. This episode is something different. It is an exploration of my creative process, how I think about first principles in a bunch of different areas, and how to get serious things done without being serious all the time and burning out. This is an unusual conversation. And in this case, I am the guest and Kevin Rose is The host, who is Kevin, besides being one of my best friends? Kevin is a technologist, serial entrepreneur, world-class investor, self-experimenter, and all-around wild and crazy guy. You can find him on Twitter @KevinRose.

• 6:42Tim Ferriss?

  For more on the project discussed in this, and I can't believe I'm saying this on my podcast after 600-plus episodes and 900 million-plus downloads, whatever it might be at this point, for more on the project discussed, the legend of Cock Punch, that's right, folks, visit cockpunch.com and follow on Twitter @cockpunch. What glee. Mint date is coming up soon, and there's a lot of wink-wink inside jokes here. So make sure to follow that Twitter account, meaning @cockpunch, for news, as well as @tferriss, that's my main Twitter account, T-F-E-R-R-I-S-S, and if you want extra credit, @timtimnifties, N-I-F-T-I-E-S. I'll also be announcing next steps via my newsletter.

• 7:26Tim Ferriss?

  That's the Five Bullet Friday newsletter that has several million people on it, and you can sign up at timuplock/friday. Please note, before anyone goes crazy on the internet, 100% of NFT primary sale proceeds from this project are being donated to the SciSafe Foundation. That is one of the main drivers behind the whole thing, is fundraising in a creative way. So all funds from the primary sales are going to SciSafe Foundation. SciSafeFoundation.org is where you can learn a lot more. It is a registered 501(c)(3) nonprofit private foundation that funds cutting-edge scientific research and other initiatives related to psychedelic medicine, mental health therapeutics for conditions like complex PTSD, treatment-resistant depression, and so on, and much more.

• 8:08Tim Ferriss?

  Again, you can find a list of projects, including a lot of firsts that have been accomplished through various grants, at SciSafeFoundation.org. The episode you're about to hear was originally published on the Proof Podcast. It's a great podcast hosted by Kevin, which provides in-depth NFT coverage. The Proof Podcast is part of Proof, broadly speaking. Proof is creating community-centric products that celebrate art, connect collectors, and activate creative entrepreneurship. Under the Proof umbrella, they have the Proof Collective, a private collective of 1,000 dedicated NFTs. NFT collectors and artists. There's also Grails, which I'm actually a part of. And I put out my first short fiction story ever as an NFT as part of Grails.

• 8:49Tim Ferriss?

  There is Grails, which is the proof curated collections with artists revealed post mint. That'll mean something to some people out there and not much to others. Then there's Moonbirds, of course, a collection of 10,000 utility enabled PFPs featuring a diverse pool of traits. There's more and then there's much more. Kevin is doing a phenomenal job. I suggest you check out what they are doing. Find proof at proof.xyz and at proof underscore XYZ on Twitter. And now after that long intro, thanks for sticking with it. Let's take a trip to crazy town, shall we? I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. And here goes nothing.

• 9:30Speaker 03

  Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of Proof that covers all things NFTs, including a brand new project done by none other than Tim Tim Ferriss. Tim, welcome to the show.

• 9:41Tim Ferriss?

  So great to be here. Good to see you, brother.

• 9:43Speaker 03

  Dude, good to see you.

• 9:46Speaker 03

  Sorry.

• 9:48Tim Ferriss?

  And for those who have not seen what happened before we press record, I've, I've been enjoying nonstop sound effects of every possible type because Kevin has a new toy.

• 10:00Speaker 03

  That's right. I do. And, uh, you know, investor dollars put to good work here. We have a, we have our own little soundboard now, which is awesome. No, in all seriousness though, um, it is nice to actually have a somewhat, uh, professional studio. It'll be very professional. Once we actually have a real home home, although this is coming together quite nicely. Mal's done a fantastic job setting it up. And we actually have, you know, real mics, real lighting, things of that nature. So.

• 10:27Tim Ferriss?

  Looks great. I like, I like the purple background effect that you have working for you. It brings out your eyes.

• 10:33Speaker 03

  You know what's crazy? Thank you, first of all. And it's crazy that we just moved in here. This is actually a temporary space. A couple of days ago and Mal rushed to get this set up. So it's

• 10:45Tim Ferriss?

  Good job, Mal. Looks excellent.

• 10:46Speaker 03

  But yeah, so dude, this is crazy because you know, we've been talking NFTs for a long time now. You were very gracious to, you know, let me chat your ear off about NFTs on the Random Show and talk about, you know, the early stuff and the early Proof of Past days and then obviously in the good chaos that became Moonbirds. But you know, people, what people may not know is that you immediately went all in as you, as one does, especially you, and went deep and we really started going, you know, crazy with NFTs, especially around our trip to Marfa, Texas.

• 11:22Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 11:23Speaker 03

  Remember when we went out there and you started buying some serious like chromey squiggles, like you got some great NFTs as a collector first, right?

• 11:31Tim Ferriss?

  Collector first. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I haven't, and that has been for me. I mean, I really haven't showcased any collections of any type. I've just been collecting to scratch my own itch and to explore the world of NFTs, which I think for a lot of folks has been entered through the gateway drug of NFT artwork. And as someone who's been very, not just interested in, but involved in art from a production perspective, right? From an illustrator perspective, a lot of that background is, is

• 12:13Tim Ferriss?

  or has been invisible to, I think, a lot of folks who have read my writing or have listened to the podcast is that prior to all of that, my plan was to be a comic book penciller for 10 plus years and

• 12:26Speaker 03

  It's not too late.

• 12:27Tim Ferriss?

  It's not too late. And worked in illustration and paid a lot of my way through college expenses and so on with illustrating books and magazines and acting as a graphics editor and so on. So I've, I've been very, very interested in

• 12:45Tim Ferriss?

  All of these intersections within the kind of Venn diagram of NFTs. And also, our background goes way, way back in terms of early-stage tech, experimenting with new tools and playing with these technologies. That goes, I mean, certainly way back, you even further than I, but for me, 2007, 2008 at the latest. So this has provided a really fun opportunity to reengage with all sorts of things that I'm interested in.

• 13:17Speaker 03

  I feel like that is one of the things that you and I bonded over very early on where, you know, I was more obviously on definitely on the tech side and the angel investing side. You were just kicking off your career as an author and angel investor. And then you were into big, big into biohacking, which I was always curious about. But you were like, you know, in order and magnitude more sophisticated in terms of like your understanding of published papers and the literature and all that stuff. So I would just kind of follow what you were doing, except for the stuff that got you in the hospital or other things. But I, I kind of fast follow where it was appropriate.

• 13:51Tim Ferriss?

  I could give you the, the do not try at home list also. I could save you, I could save you some hospital visits, which, you know, that's what friends are for.

• 14:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. And then we would, you know, do angel deals together, try out new technologies together, things like that. And so, you know, when I got into NFTs and all that and knowing your love for art, it makes sense that you would, would then venture into the space and kick the tires. Now that said, it's November 8th as of this recording. NFTs might be dead right now. We don't know because it's.

• 14:19Tim Ferriss?

  It's been a hell of a day. It's been a very exciting day.

• 14:22Speaker 03

  A few days.

• 14:22Tim Ferriss?

  Hell of a few days. Yeah, very exciting. I mean, exciting in the way that like an avalanche is exciting perhaps, but exciting nonetheless.

• 14:31Speaker 03

  You like to watch kind of, but you should be far enough away. But sadly, we're right in the middle of it.

• 14:35Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, better on video instead of being on one ski going, going directly into the avalanche. But, you know, some people choose to ride the bear. Some people choose to do something else.

• 14:47Tim Ferriss?

  Dangerous hobbies.

• 14:48Speaker 03

  T-shirt for you.

• 14:49Tim Ferriss?

  Ride the bear.

• 14:49Speaker 03

  Ride the bear. So let's talk about your, your project. Can we, what would be a good, where would be a good place to start? Would it, would it be with the kind of, uh, the idea of, of PFP? Or if you consider this a PFP or can we, what can we, what can we say? And what can't we say about the project right now?

• 15:10Tim Ferriss?

  Well, I think because ultimately you and I will, uh, sit around and have martinis and decide when pub date is. I can just go for it and we can get into the nitty gritty and then we can release it when it makes sense. But I think it might make sense to start at the beginning in so much as, let's see here. So early 2021, you and I were having a conversation and you're like, you gotta look more closely these NFT things. And I think maybe prior to that, or maybe just after that, the timing is slightly lost on me. I think it would have been just before that. I don't remember the exact date. I'd had Katie Haun on the podcast and we talked about NFTs.

• 15:53Tim Ferriss?

  And then you had encouraged me in early 2021 to roll up my sleeves and actually start using some of the tools. And to, and to buy NFTs.

• 16:06Speaker 03

  Those phone calls.

• 16:07Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, those phone calls.

• 16:09Speaker 03

  The meta mass support phone calls.

• 16:10Tim Ferriss?

  Oh God, it's just like remedial, well, you know, walking your great grandmother through buying the first NFT. Sorry about that, Kev Kev, but I appreciated the, uh, yeah, yeah. The, the 101, uh, you sort of short school bus help there. And it made me very, very excited on a couple of levels. So to explain why I need to give a bit of additional context. So there were a lot of things that came together for me at once. One was new tech, always interesting to me.

• 16:44Tim Ferriss?

  Especially when there is some type of on-ramp slash Trojan horse that allows a lot of, let's just call them not obviously early tech candidates to become involved with early tech. If that makes any sense, right? If, if there's some type of like muggle pathway for someone like me to get involved. Really interesting. The next was for, I would say, two or three years, probably two or three years at that point. I'd have to go back and look. I had been brainstorming, trying to brainstorm, ways to run a,

• 17:21Tim Ferriss?

  I suppose, let's call it contemporary art auction with donated artwork to raise money for my foundation, SISAE Foundation, which supports a lot of the early-stage, it has supported and continues to support a lot of the early-stage, cutting-edge science related to psychedelic therapeutics and addressing so-called intractable psychiatric conditions of all different types. So, complex PTSD, OCD, anorexia nervosa, a pretty broad spectrum of difficult-to-treat conditions. I had been trying for a long time to try to put together something resembling a physical contemporary art auction. And as soon as I saw the mechanics

• 18:06Tim Ferriss?

  and the marketplaces involved with NFTs, I thought to myself, wait a second, there may be a bunch of other options here that don't involve putting on the kneepads and begging, fill in the blank, like, Agent of Artist X to give me a canvas, which, it turns out, they hate doing, generally. I was like, there may be a more elegant solution here that allows me to also experiment with the technology. And then on top of that,

• 18:35Tim Ferriss?

  and if anybody goes back, if they've been following my Instagram for a while, they will have seen, over the last two or three years, various attempts on my behalf to get back into using my hands to produce artwork. So you'll see experimentations with charcoal, you'll see experimentations with pencil, with pastels, with different types of, different media, to get back into the physical production of artwork. And so I saw in NFTs a great combination of excuses to engage firsthand. So that's when the wheels started to get moving. And I would say...

• 19:16Tim Ferriss?

  At that point began all of the most ridiculous ideas imaginable, right? Popping into my head for what I might do if I were to do something in NFTs. And, and at first it was, it was what could I do that would be really easy? That would be exciting for me, lightweight, fun. And then as it went on, my, my desire, I guess, got more and more ambitious and elaborate in terms of folding into a potential art project, which is how I viewed it. These things I wanted to explore, but it never really had the incentive to explore in a real way, like fiction and world building.

• 20:01Tim Ferriss?

  And last but not least, kind of revisiting all the things that made me happy as a 12 and 13 year old. So I've spent a lot of time with a bunch of people I respect recently and almost all of them have been discovering and resurrecting joys of theirs later in life that were core to their enjoyment as a 12 or 13 year old.

• 20:30Tim Ferriss?

  So when all of these ingredients in the cocktail then got kind of shaken up and stirred over the last, let's just call it, I guess, what the hell is it now, a year and a half?

• 20:43Tim Ferriss?

  That has led, I guess, in the last nine months and especially in the last six months to this project that is going to launch now in the next few weeks, which is pretty crazy to think about at the arguably the worst possible time to launch anything ever in NFTs, which I'm, which I'm actually very pleased by in a way because number one, if I were doing it just for a money grab, this would be the worst time imaginable to do it. I could have done, you know, I could have farted out some really terrible artwork and done something long ago. I decided not to do that. And I should say upfront, like a hundred percent of the primary proceeds are going to my foundation. So that's, that's that.

• 21:27Tim Ferriss?

  And that piece of the experiment is important to me. Also, when the markets are really bad and you think back to when I first got involved with the angel investing, like 2008, 2010, I mean, that was kind of a dot com depression and it was just the best time. To be in the game because it was when the true believers were left on the field. Do you know what I mean? Like all the fair weather folks had to split. They just took off.

• 21:52Speaker 03

  Oh, that's happened.

• 21:53Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's happened.

• 21:54Speaker 03

  A lot of that's happened.

• 21:54Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, oh, yeah, no, I mean, all of the sort of the, I shouldn't say week, but all of the casual tourists in the herd have been called already. And it forces you, and by you, I just, I guess I'll just say me, to think about all of this much more creatively and to come back to first principles and think about like, okay, why am I doing this? How could I make sure that I stay true to certain priorities? Like fun and play being the absolute core of all of my decisions around this.

• 22:33Tim Ferriss?

  So I'm having a hell of a time, man. And you've seen it, you've seen it in me because we've hung out so much and had so many conversations. Like it has been, let's see here, since publishing Tribe of Mentors that came out, I want to say 2016, 2017. It's been five years since I've been this energized by anything as a public facing project.

• 22:57Speaker 03

  It's great to see that in you. But I'm curious, like if, what does this mean for you? Where does this fit in your, in your career in the sense that? Let's assume you get everything you want out of this project.

• 23:11Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 23:12Speaker 03

  Obviously you have some primary sales coming in. That goes to your foundation, 100% of that, that money goes in.

• 23:18Tim Ferriss?

  Yep.

• 23:19Speaker 03

  That's great. That's awesome for the foundation. But we know royalties are up in the air right now. Who knows what the heck is gonna happen with the royalties?

• 23:26Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, big time.

• 23:27Speaker 03

  You know, so what is, what's a win for Tim over the long term here? Like, what does this project turn into? Because I think if, if I'm putting my devil's advocate hat on, which I love that onion post devil's advocate, it turns out just to be asshole.

• 23:44Tim Ferriss?

  Put on your asshole hat. Let's do that. Yeah.

• 23:46Speaker 03

  Put my asshole hat.

• 23:46Tim Ferriss?

  I'm ready.

• 23:47Speaker 03

  People will say like, Okay, celebrity, NFTs, we've seen this playbook before, PFPs, we've seen this playbook before.

• 23:56Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 23:57Speaker 03

  But what I, what I know, and the reason I'm asking this question is because I know what you're doing behind the scenes, which I think you're ready to share today.

• 24:02Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I'll share a bunch of it.

• 24:03Speaker 03

  Cooler than, than just checking boxes. And, and obviously you're not doing this for the money. So what, what is, what's the creative win for you?

• 24:12Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, shit, so much fucking work. Oh my God. If I did like my hourly on this, I'm working at Burger King. It's fucking hilarious. Anyway, so the win for me is continuing to play the game. So that is.

• 24:30Speaker 03

  What's the game?

• 24:31Tim Ferriss?

  Effectively a quote from Karst and sort of the finite versus infinite games side of things. So the game here is giving myself

• 24:45Tim Ferriss?

  compelling excuses slash reasons to engage with creative muscles that I, that I have, but I haven't exercised in a very long time. And one way to do that is through something that I'm reasonably comfortable with, but that I haven't done in a very long time, and that's visual art. Right? I have very, very, very acute visual senses. I have pretty good fine motor control. And I can also, I've realized through this process, work with artists really well. That's new for me. I've always been the artist. When I've designed, say, all of my book covers, with the exception of Tools of Titans, like I just, I designed all of those book covers

• 25:28Tim Ferriss?

  through sketches and then had them professionalized and polished, obviously, to get ready for actual printing. But the visual piece is something I feel, I feel like a whole human being again when I'm engaged with. And it feels so good. It feels so good. But I need, I need reasons to do that. Because when all I'm trying, when all I'm trying to do is say, take a lesson with a teacher once a week, other things crowded out, right? Other things crowded out. Life gets in the way. And I'm, you know, trying to adult my life as best as possible. I'm like, oh, well, that's not important. That's optional. But when I have a team and when I have a project and when I have deadlines.

• 26:14Tim Ferriss?

  The magic is that shit gets done. And I actually do a lot more art. So I, I mean, I have in my bag right now. I took it with me to a coffee shop, a huge sketchbook. I have an iPad with Procreate on it that I have still not figured out how to use. I've just been putting it off because I'm enjoying scribbling in my notebook so much. So that's, that's part of the game that I want to continue is the visual art. The other side of, and there are many pieces to this game, but one of the games that I want to really continue to engage with is fiction. So I've spent so much time as a nonfiction writer.

• 26:57Tim Ferriss?

  I mean, a thousand plus blog posts, right? Thousands of pages of published material in the books, let alone the other thousands, thousands of pages that were cut from those and the drafts that were thrown out and so on. Nonfiction is an incredible craft. It is super interesting and challenging in a million ways. However, I think when it's done best, generally you're a really good architect and then you do a ton of research and you assemble all the materials and then a lot of it is carpentry, right? Like you're just, you're putting together what you laid out in the blueprint.

• 27:38Tim Ferriss?

  And that has its own creative challenges, but what I, what I really have enjoyed about playing with fiction and what back in the day I enjoyed so much in D and D Dungeons and Dragons, right? By the way, I still have all of my modules, all of my books, all of my maps, all of my 20 sided die and four sided die from when I was a kid playing D and D. I kept all of it. I still have it to this day.

• 28:06Speaker 03

  I wish I would have kept some mine.

• 28:07Tim Ferriss?

  I have all of it. It's literally in a room about 20 feet away from me right now. And what I enjoyed so much about D and D, whether I was a dungeon master or a player, and what I have enjoyed so much about art and what I've enjoyed so much about now doing fictional world building, this is coming back to the question of what game I want to continue playing, is that you can set these initial conditions or set a situation, say with a character or with two warring clans or with, in the case of Dungeon Master, it might just be a setting in a particular campaign with different characters and here's the opening scene.

• 28:46Tim Ferriss?

  And then you go from there. So even I, in this case, as the writer per se, do not know what the ending's gonna be. I have no idea what's gonna be around corner number seven. And that is fun for me, right? I'm not just putting together brick by brick the building that I already know the finished look of. That's not the case at all. So what I would love-

• 29:16Speaker 03

  Can I ask you a question?

• 29:17Tim Ferriss?

  Sure.

• 29:18Speaker 03

  About that, though? I mean, what you're saying is you're talking about writing, but we're also talking about NFTs. So I think what we're missing is-

• 29:24Tim Ferriss?

  The connection.

• 29:25Speaker 03

  How that thread is connected.

• 29:27Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah, totally.

• 29:28Speaker 03

  Like, because I would say most NFT projects, they'll say, hey, we're the crazy buff squirrels or whatever. And then you've got like the squirrel page and then there's some copy about the lore of the squirrels and how they got their anabolic and like all these things that go down. And then, and then that's kind of it, right? It's like a page and you're like, okay, that's all. You're talking, this isn't just a one pager. This is the characters. I buy this and I'm done.

• 29:54Tim Ferriss?

  No, it's not a one pager. Now, I want to be clear. I'm not committing to writing, you know, the half-esque version of Game of Thrones or something. Yeah, it's not 12 novels. But I have spent hundreds of hours thinking about world building. So what is the NFTs here for me? Are a project with deadlines, with deliverables, that keep me on track in thinking and engaging with art and fiction writing. So what this means in practical terms is that this project, when it comes out, will have, I'll give you some of the specifics. So it's going to have eight primary great houses.

• 30:39Tim Ferriss?

  These are like clans's and they're going to have different characteristics, different strengths, different weaknesses, different cultures, different religions, different natural resources. I mean, there's going to be a lot of fucking detail. And this has been written. I've already written this and furthermore, I've already hired a primary voice actor. There will probably, probably, I say probably, meaning hopefully be more to perform these as also, this is an exclusive news flash. Wah wah wah wah wah, I'll do the sound effect myself.

• 31:24Tim Ferriss?

  It will also be a podcast, so a limited edition season one of a podcast that will have this lore performed. And that will come out in drips and drabs so that people can slowly sort of look through the haze and begin to piece this world together. There's, there are going to be a lot of embedded secrets and mysteries and mythologies that folks, if they're interested, will really be able to explore. And in some cases, we'll have to piece together. So all of that writing is being done. And that's already in process. You've got these, these houses, you have maps, like I have art to review right now

• 32:08Tim Ferriss?

  related to refinements, to a map, like a lay of the land of the known territory per se. And

• 32:20Tim Ferriss?

  The writing then thus far has been related to a lot of the backstory and the histories. But the conditions are now set in sort of the present day and there will be at least one primary figure, character, who's going to be very nebulous in a way. I shouldn't say nebulous, but physically he will be at this point sort of unknown, who will be telling the story or rather trying to piece together the story himself. And he's a stand-in in a way for the listener or the reader. And so how do NFTs figure into all of this?

• 33:01Tim Ferriss?

  It keeps me on track because if I were just writing this, I don't have any desire to write a fiction book right now. Putting it out as a blog post or a series of blog posts could be interesting, but it's kind of like a fart on a crowded train. Like, will anybody notice? Maybe somebody will notice, but it's not, it doesn't have the gravitas or the connective tissue to really hold collective attention and to foster sort of collective imagination. Whereas if you have an NFT, you have people with skin in the game, you certainly have me with skin in the game, you have a team, I mean, a team, I have a very small team is focused on this

• 33:44Tim Ferriss?

  for right now. The game I want to continue playing is really engaging with developing the art. And if I look at, for instance, like the first history that I wrote for one of these clans and I look at the last, I can see a tremendous, and this is not my words, this is from a number of proofreaders, like a tremendous amount of progress. Like, I am getting better at doing this. And that's super fucking exciting. I don't think I'm in a, I don't think I'm the world's best or anything close to a great fiction writer right now, but I have been studying it. I've been going back. I've been reading the classes. I've been listening to podcasts and listening to lectures on world building, on systems of magic, all sorts of things. I've been paying attention and so it's getting better.

• 34:28Tim Ferriss?

  And I know there's so much room left for improvement. So basically that is the game I want to continue to play.

• 34:36Speaker 03

  I have so many questions.

• 34:37Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, let me throw in a huge caveat, right?

• 34:39Speaker 03

  Wait, let me.

• 34:40Tim Ferriss?

  All right, go, go for it.

• 34:41Speaker 03

  Give me the caveat first.

• 34:42Tim Ferriss?

  Well, the caveat is if by engaging with NFTs and Web three, I just need to deal with a bunch of dicks on the internet all the time, then all bets are off. Then I'm like, all right, fine. Like, I'm not going to continue to just take, you know, body shots on the internet if

• 34:58Speaker 03

  Right.

• 34:59Tim Ferriss?

  if it's, if it's energy draining. So the reason I'm doing it right now is because I am getting so much energy from it. It's so fucking fun. And it's been a long time since I have felt that. And I, so, so I pay attention to that, just in terms of like, why this, why that? It's like, what is giving me energy? Which people are giving me energy? Let me double down on that. So right now it means doubling down on this.

• 35:28Tim Ferriss?

  Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show. This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time what I would take if I could only take one supplement. The answer is invariably AG1 by Athletic Greens. If you're traveling, if you're just busy, if you're not sure if your meals are where they should be, it covers your bases. With approximately 75 vitamins, minerals and whole food sourced ingredients, you'll be hard pressed to find a more nutrient dense formula on the market. It has a multivitamin, multi mineral greens complex, probiotics and prebiotics for gut health and immunity formula, digestive enzymes and adaptogens. You get the idea. Right now Athletic Greens is giving my audience a special offer on top of their all in one formula,

• 36:12Tim Ferriss?

  which is a free vitamin D supplement and five free travel packs with your first subscription purchase. Many of us are deficient in vitamin D. I've found that true for myself, which is usually produced in our bodies from sun exposure. So adding a vitamin D supplement to your daily routine is a great option for additional immune support. Support your immunity, gut health and energy by visiting athleticgreens.com/tim. You'll receive up to a year's supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your subscription. Again, that's athleticgreens.com/tim.

• 36:49Speaker 03

  The thing about the NFT space that is so challenging for me and everyone else building in it is that, you know, a year ago, or close to a year ago, if you'd have asked me as someone that's a builder, how far out do you plan when you're building product in general? I would have told you, you know, kind of eight to 12 months type world. That's very much a web two kind of thing, right?

• 37:13Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 37:14Speaker 03

  And then when I got into NFTs, I was like, oh shit, well, we shouldn't be planning more than six months out. That's just chaos, right?

• 37:19Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 37:20Speaker 03

  Then I cut that down to three months and now I'm at about 30 days. So I feel like anything above and beyond and that far out is dangerous because you promise something, this community, the people that are NFT collectors, maybe it's because the blockchain is just so transparent in general, they tend to, and this isn't everyone, but the folks that I interact with, they want a level of transparency and understanding about where the project is going, how ambitious is the project? And, you know, what do you hope to build eventually? And so I think that's the challenging part is, is like figuring out, especially with you, Tim,

• 38:03Speaker 03

  because Tim, you have such a massive podcast, a massive following on the other end of the spectrum, which is the more kind of like normies, not the web three folks, right?

• 38:12Tim Ferriss?

  Normies, yes.

• 38:14Speaker 03

  If you go in and say, hey, every single episode is going to be plugging this NFT collection. And, you know, it's, it's like, I'm going to put a lot of effort in this because there is a world where Tim Ferriss has the power to release comic books, to release graphic novels, to do, you know, miniature series on Netflix. Like, there is a world where you could pull that off because you are the type of human that has the wherewithal, the knowledge, the, you know, the fan base, all of that to make this happen.

• 38:45Tim Ferriss?

  Yep.

• 38:46Speaker 03

  I guess like the, the really difficult question is like, how serious are you with this? Because you just mentioned, eh, if I don't like the crowd, I might, I might pull back a bit. Like, that's going to be the number one question you get, right?

• 38:58Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. So I can, I can, let me take a stab. This is, this is, uh, this is one of my, my favorite topics because I get to be the salty, cantankerous old man, which I'm really embracing these days. So all of those considerations that you just mentioned, right? Like, what's your roadmap? How's this? How's this? How's this? How's this? Comes down to, uh, if we don't want to call it by too fancy a name, people just wanting to know if they're guaranteed to make a quick buck.

• 39:30Tim Ferriss?

  By and large, they're like, can I buy this and then flip it for point two ETH more? Two seconds later or five days? I mean, you could push back, but let me just say-

• 39:40Speaker 03

  I will say 90% of people in this environment are exactly that. There are 10% of us that will say, I want to bet on Tim Ferriss over the long term.

• 39:48Tim Ferriss?

  Yes, yes.

• 39:49Speaker 03

  So I want to come in and own this because I know he's going to create something great.

• 39:53Tim Ferriss?

  I agree. So there are exceptions. I will say the default is

• 40:00Tim Ferriss?

  a lot of folks who just want free money for no effort. And that world sometimes exists. There are windows of opportunity, but really that dynamic rarely turns out very well for the individual or collectively speaking. So to come back to how serious I am, I am so fucking serious about what I am creating right now.

• 40:28Tim Ferriss?

  But I am not in any way afraid of the mob in the sense that I am going to let all of my creative decisions be dictated by what the lowest common denominator of day traders wants. Does that make sense? I have zero interest in that. And also, I don't need it. Like, I don't need, there's, I mean, just based on the amount of

• 40:54Tim Ferriss?

  work I've put into this, I could figure out a way to do like a compilation, interview based book and call it a day with far less work, right? So the drivers for this are different.

• 41:08Speaker 03

  Less people complaining for sure.

• 41:10Tim Ferriss?

  Oh my God. Yeah. Because people who buy a book aren't like, how is this going to pay for my, you know, car down payment or whatever. Yeah, my kids' car, which nobody, I don't think anybody should and put money into speculative anything for, for any type of important output, right? It's just too, it's just too risky. And you know, there are risks intrinsic to a project. There are risks also inherent to just macro factors that are beyond anyone's control. I mean, AKA, look at the last week. For fuck's sake. So, you know, look, if, if you want something safe, NFTs ain't it, folks? So with that having been said, so I'm very, very serious.

• 41:56Tim Ferriss?

  And I got some sage advice early on, which was from a different friend, although you can confirm or deny whether or not you echoed this in some sense, but it's like, either

• 42:12Tim Ferriss?

  promise and promise a lot and then deliver, or promise nothing and set expectations very, very low, which is my default with everything. It has been my default with almost every project I've ever done. Because if I set expectations low, there's nothing but upside surprise for people. So.

• 42:31Speaker 03

  Except that you just told them that and now they're like, oh, he's setting the expectations low.

• 42:35Tim Ferriss?

  Well, I mean, I am setting expectations low, but here, let me, this will be fun. Why don't I, so there's going to be an FAQ on some kind of Mint page or, or website dedicated to the project, right? So here are a few of the drafts.

• 42:54Speaker 03

  Oh, your facts?

• 42:55Tim Ferriss?

  Of, you have my facts.

• 42:56Speaker 03

  You can ask questions?

• 42:56Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Do these NFTs come with utility, a roadmap and a Discord? There's no planned utility, no planned roadmap and no planned Discord, but there might be a few surprises. It's a big experiment that I've been thinking about and planning for the better part of a year, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. And then there's some other stuff, right? Now I've given away a couple of things I wasn't going to mention to anybody prior to launch. I was actually going to make these surprises after the Mint, like the podcast and so on. But I've had a number of people say, hey, look, you're really excited about this. If you just hedge and say nothing. It's a kind of a disservice to the whole thing. So you might as well mention a couple of them.

• 43:29Speaker 03

  Right.

• 43:30Tim Ferriss?

  Okay, so here's another one. Should I consider this an investment? That's a question. And my draft so far is absolutely not. No. This is an art experiment and you're getting funny and highly stylized JPEGs that are part of a fictional world. That's it. And then it goes on and on and on. And I just basically say,

• 43:49Tim Ferriss?

  come into it expecting, as you might, if you were to go to a casino and like spend a hundred dollars as entertainment money, much like you'd spend money at a movie theater. You don't expect to get your money back. You expect to have fun watching a movie, eat some popcorn and then go home. And, you know, hopefully I give people some soul enriching laughs along the way, as well as provide a fictional world that people engage with. But I do not want, nor am I positioned, I don't want this to be viewed as an investment and I'm definitely not positioning it that way. Right?

• 44:25Speaker 03

  Yeah. Now, correct me if I'm wrong here, but some of these come with free dinners with you and jam sessions. Is that correct?

• 44:31Tim Ferriss?

  No, I don't promise any of these things. Uh, there's another one. Wait, can I read a few more of these? Now, I might have to change some of these, but there's another one that, another question on my frequently asked questions is, can I be a dick and expect benefits?

• 44:47Tim Ferriss?

  If you're a dick, I reserve the right to ban or block you from anything I do in the future. And then it goes on and on. So basically say like, I'm not planning on running an online preschool for children with behavioral problems. So if you're an idiot, I don't want you to be part of this world. I don't want you to have any benefits if there are any. So I will block you in whatever way I can. So, uh, I just, I just think the, the, the sort of norm of like,

• 45:16Tim Ferriss?

  being in a community such as online Twitter, which is like one of the, one of the most unfriendly neighborhoods of the internet, and just like pissing on people's heads as they walk by on the sidewalk and throwing potted plants at them is not acceptable to me. That's not the, the culture that I want to foster. If culture is a byproduct and part of the worst behavior you're willing to accept. I want to set the rules really early and I think you can do that. It'll be a challenge certainly, but I was able to do that with say blog comments on my blog. Long time ago, I was like, we're gonna be cool. If you're not cool, you're gonna get blocked. That's it. There's and there's no second chance. This isn't like three strikes, you're out. It's like, no, you get one chance. Like if I invite you to dinner at my house and you like, put your balls on the table and then like spit in my food.

• 46:01Tim Ferriss?

  I'm like, okay, yeah, you're not coming back to dinner. That's, that's one strike.

• 46:05Speaker 03

  I think I've done that once at your house, actually.

• 46:07Tim Ferriss?

  That's true. I didn't want to name names.

• 46:08Speaker 03

  I was invited back.

• 46:09Tim Ferriss?

  It was a lot of tequila. I gave you, I did give Kevin one pass on that.

• 46:13Speaker 03

  That's right. That's right.

• 46:14Tim Ferriss?

  But here's another one. Okay, so one more FAQ and then I'll stop because I don't want to kind of rain on my own parade and undersell it. I'm trying to be very careful of that. But here's another one. Will you be involved with this forever? Forever, ever? Forever, ever? And then I said, probably not. I'm not pounding the pavement for any of my books or TV shows anymore. And I wouldn't expect this to be all that different. I'll be involved for as long as I'm super stoked and it's massively energy giving instead of energy draining. You know, if I have to deal with a lot of idiots online and it's just nonstop punishment, I'll peace out and move on.

• 46:50Tim Ferriss?

  My goal is always to create something that can thrive without me, but TBD, right? What I would love as a dream outcome, coming back to your question, is for this to go really well, for me to enjoy it. And then to say, you know what? I want to keep writing fiction. I want to keep producing artwork. Like I already have all these ideas for possible extensions and all sorts of stuff. And you know me, like I've thought about the possibilities for like derivative creations, right? I've thought a lot about these things. It doesn't mean they're gonna happen. It absolutely doesn't mean they're gonna happen, but it could.

• 47:24Speaker 03

  How do you think about, um, you know, there's, there has to be some fans of yours out there that they'll tune into this and say,

• 47:33Speaker 03

  this sounds really cool and I'm a fan of Tim's. I'm sure his, his sci-fi writing will be really interesting.

• 47:39Tim Ferriss?

  More sci-fi. It's more like fantasy, more like fantasy.

• 47:42Speaker 03

  Fantasy, sorry, fantasy writing will be really interesting. I too am into this because there's of course, a lot of geeks out there that might be into fan fiction type stuff.

• 47:51Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 47:52Speaker 03

  Is there a world where anyone can kind of, kind of help out? Or do you see a world where you involve any community type involvement or collaboration?

• 48:00Tim Ferriss?

  This is an excellent question and I have not figured out where I land on it. I've talked to a ton of people about it. And I don't know where I land yet. I don't know exactly where I land yet because there's

• 48:15Tim Ferriss?

  there is such a broad spectrum of options. And on one hand, you've got kind of the Disney super enforcement, right? But as a, in part, as a result of that, I think they have very tight controls on sort of quality narrative character in such a way that these worlds have incredible longevity, right? I mean, some of their characters and so on have just unbelievable, multiple decade-long longevity. If they oversaturate, so I'll use Disney as an example on this too. Like if suddenly there's five Star Wars properties coming out every week, I think personally, okay, if you're

• 49:00Tim Ferriss?

  someone on the exec team who's incentivized by shorter-term stock performance, and that's going to benefit you and maybe your shareholders over the short term, that's fine, but you can also corrupt and damage a fictional world and characters very quickly by that oversaturation, right? Now, there are other examples of folks like, for instance, Hugh Howey with his book Wool, which was this huge sleeper bestseller, who is really supportive of all fanfiction, right? He's the opposite end of the spectrum.

• 49:43Tim Ferriss?

  And I think that both sides could make very compelling arguments as to why they're doing what they're doing. And then there's a lot in the middle, right? There's a lot in the middle.

• 49:55Tim Ferriss?

  So you might have, for instance, and this is where NFTs get so tricky. And somebody had asked me, like, if you could go long in Web3 on anything, what would it be? And I said, if I, if I could go long on

• 50:09Tim Ferriss?

  New generation intellectual property lawyers, if there are a way to do that, I would do that because this shit is so complicated. It is unbelievably complicated. Let alone, like the accounting and tax and all that. I mean, it is so bleeding edge that very few people have any idea where the puck is going. On the IP side, right? You have situations where, for instance, certain holders of an NFT will have the commercial rights or not to their particular image. But they do not have commercial rights to say the name of the project, right? Because then what's the incentive of the project owner to sort of create a lot of

• 50:53Tim Ferriss?

  brand equity value if it's just getting sliced and diced into a million pieces, right? That can cause all sorts of problems. And, and you see this with a lot of the larger projects in the NFT space today, right? So like, how do you thread the needle on that is, is there are sets of questions that consume so much, I, well, for me at least, like a lot of thinking that are invisible from the outside when you just see the output. But yeah, I, I've, I'm doing a lot of reading on this. And I'm talking to a lot of people about it. I'm not sure where I land yet.

• 51:25Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, I mean, you've got like Gary Vee, for example, protects all of his IP. So like the sacred sardine or whatever, it can, it's like, it's only Gary's, only he can use that. I don't know if sacred sardine is a thing, but I'll just say it is.

• 51:37Tim Ferriss?

  I like it. That might be my, my DJ name.

• 51:42Speaker 03

  You've got that that's fully protected. You know, I've gone the CC zero route, which is, you know, like nouns and cryptodes and a few other projects out there where we say the remixes, the meme culture, the extension of the brand into a thousand different nooks and crannies is going to be what gets us more visibility long-term, which, you know, experiment, we'll see what happens.

• 52:05Tim Ferriss?

  Experiment.

• 52:05Speaker 03

  And middle of the road, kind of bored apes, like, well, we'll give you a little bit of, you know, you can go sell a coffee mug, just don't call it bored apes, call it number six, five, whatever. You know, so. Any sense on which way you're leaning or no, not yet?

• 52:20Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I would say I probably lean, and this is nothing new to me, right? I want to just maybe backstep for a second and say, I've had to think about this stuff before. This is not new, right? I've had to think about it with respect to my, my books. I've had to think about it with respect to the podcast. And like, what do I do when people are slicing dicing the podcast? What do I do when people are creating like summary books of one of my books? What do I do when there are various types of derivative products that get put out that are associated with my books or my name or whatever it might be? How do you respond to that, right? And when do you need to respond to it? Right?

• 53:03Tim Ferriss?

  Because there are laws established around, say, trademarks. If you never enforce your trademarks, you get yourself into trouble. So you know this, you know this really well. So as much as the web three world is the wild west, like there are actually, we live in a society governed by laws. And if you're going to think about, here's what I would say. If you're going to think about, if people are investing in a person or a team, because they hope that person or team has a long-term focus, anyone with a long-term focus has to take this shit seriously and think about it. Otherwise, they're not thinking long-term. They're just flying by the seat of their pants and their stuff could, you know, the floor could fall out.

• 53:47Tim Ferriss?

  Not the floor in the NFT sense, although I guess that could be the case as well. But like the metaphorical floor upon which the entire project stands could just disintegrate unexpectedly if they're not minding these details. So where am I right now? Am I thinking probably somewhere closer to Bored Ape, Yacht Club and Disney? I'm probably closer to that end of the spectrum.

• 54:14Speaker 03

  I think that's wise.

• 54:15Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, for me, I think that-

• 54:17Speaker 03

  For this type of project, yeah.

• 54:18Tim Ferriss?

  For this type of project, and also it's like, if somebody, if, if, if folks want me to try to craft a world that they can engage with in some way, whatever that sum is, is kind of like TBD, right?

• 54:32Tim Ferriss?

  I need to, there need to be certain pieces that are reliable for, for me as foundational pieces of this world. So I can, I can create, let's call it, you know, physics that are reliable. I can create lineages that interweave in a way that makes sense. And we'll see if that changes. I've also, for instance, come across, I have put so much time into this, Kevin. Oh my God. I mean, you know that I've done a lot of it, but like the, the number of case studies that I have read and case law related to different types of IP is unbelievable.

• 55:13Tim Ferriss?

  The number of cases I've looked at related to almost every major NFT project you can think of is mind boggling. And there are some cases of folks who are, for instance, opening up to certain types of fanfiction and then they'll have their community, whether it's a DAO or otherwise, vote on pieces of fanfiction that are created that should be incorporated into the canon, right? Sort of the That's interesting. Which is interesting. However, one of my like governing principles for this entire thing is actually a, a quote that I borrowed a principle from Morgan Spurlock, the documentary

• 55:54Tim Ferriss?

  filmmaker who made Super Size Me and so on, which is, once you get fancy, fancy gets broken. So I've seen a lot of projects become so complex, especially around mechanics,

• 56:09Tim Ferriss?

  that I think a lot of people opt out because it just looks like a grind to figure this shit out on any level. So for me, I'm like, so for me, I'm like, look, it's art. Like what you're buying is art.

• 56:24Tim Ferriss?

  And what that then gives you is some skin in the game as a playing piece in a world that you can then engage with. The form of that fictional world is not going to be 27 different mechanics. It's going to be writing and it's going to be probably spoken word, at least initially in the form of a podcast. And then we see where-

• 56:47Speaker 03

  I think that's brilliant, by the way. I'm very, very excited for the podcast. Yeah, I just know it's gonna be fun.

• 56:52Tim Ferriss?

  I'm excited. So now you've had some, you and I have had this cat and mouse game about the, the name of this project and the specifics. Because, you know, one of, one of the things that I love about you is you're so supportive of things that you believe in and get excited about. And one of the most hilarious aspects of your personality is, is what goes hand in hand with that is that you, man, you have a big mouth. And so I'm always worried about you blowing my cover with secrets.

• 57:25Speaker 03

  Listen, okay, you want to talk some shit? You're the most paranoid motherfucker I know, dude. You're like so concerned.

• 57:31Tim Ferriss?

  It's true.

• 57:32Speaker 03

  It can be like something that you've already announced. You're like, don't fucking say a word. I'm like, Tim, you tweeted about it like two days ago. And you're like, oh, okay.

• 57:38Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah. I mean, look, I, so I agree. We are on, you know, this is, this is-

• 57:44Speaker 03

  We're on the opposite ends of the spectrum on that.

• 57:46Tim Ferriss?

  Which is why we get along because-

• 57:48Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 57:48Tim Ferriss?

  Like, like I'm the kind of like paranoid squirrel minding the nuts. You know, like that guy from Ice Age. Uh, and you're, and you're like, you're more like the Hakuna Matata, like Warthog from Lion King. And so, you know, we get along.

• 58:06Speaker 03

  It's been a while since I've watched that one. What, I mean, I remember he was fat. Other than that, I don't know much.

• 58:11Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, no, he's just like, everything's gonna be great. Hakuna Matata, no worries, man. Things are fantastic. Peace out. And I will say, not that I have any personal experience, but I went, oh shit, I just blew my cover. Someone went to see the Lion King show, like the actual theater show, with a friend of theirs and their friend's whole family, including a bunch of little kids. And that someone was a little concerned that they just might not be able to like, sit through whatever, 90 minutes or two hours of this performance, really not knowing anything about it. So that said person took a handful of gummies and-

• 58:52Tim Ferriss?

  It was one of the most spectacular experiences of said person's life. I mean, it was just beyond description and how amazing and hilarious, especially hilarious it was.

• 59:04Tim Ferriss?

  So, thank you for coming to my TED Talk on Lion King and edibles. The point was that I'm paranoid, you're very much the opposite of paranoid. And what I wanted to offer is to share with you for the first time ever. This is not bullshit, people. I've actually have not told Kevin the real name. There was a placeholder, though. Do you remember the placeholder?

• 59:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course. So I was gonna say, the only reason I am gonna agree to even publish this episode is as long as we can say what the placeholder name was.

• 59:35Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. All right.

• 59:36Speaker 03

  Oh, I remember the placeholder name.

• 59:38Tim Ferriss?

  All right. So what was the placeholder name?

• 59:40Speaker 03

  You got ahold of me and said, I have this idea for an NFT project. Can I tell the real story?

• 59:47Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah, of course.

• 59:49Speaker 03

  Okay, so the real story in this, okay, let me just put it this way. In the spirit of ideation and through working through new ideas, it's come a long way.

• 59:59Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:59Speaker 03

  Because when you first, when you first mentioned it, it was very much like, imagine a couple of guys having a couple of drinks, like bullshitting about what would be hilarious if they saw this on the blockchain.

• 1:00:10Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:00:11Speaker 03

  I feel like how it kind of started.

• 1:00:13Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:00:13Speaker 03

  And then you turned it into something where when I first saw the art, I was like, man, fuck, these are good. These are like, and I wasn't joking, like they were really good. Like you did a good job with this, this crew. And so I was pleasantly surprised with the, with everything and how it's come together. Like, it was clear to me at some point in your head, it went from, haha, wouldn't this be funny? To like, I'm gonna build something pretty badass, right?

• 1:00:38Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah. All my friends were like, wow, this got really elaborate very quickly.

• 1:00:42Speaker 03

  Right. Yeah, exactly. So it started off with Tim being like, wouldn't it be funny just to mess with people? And just create an empty project that was just a bunch of like roosters? And like have it be like cock and balls, just call it cock and balls. And like you could do like blue balls and you could do like, and I'm just like, I'm like, oh, God, Tim Godspeed. Like, please make that happen. I just wanna sit there with my Michael Jackson popcorn and being like, I like watching the shit go down.

• 1:01:17Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:17Speaker 03

  And so that's, that's how it started.

• 1:01:19Tim Ferriss?

  That's how it started.

• 1:01:20Speaker 03

  And yes.

• 1:01:21Tim Ferriss?

  That is.

• 1:01:22Speaker 03

  So it was cock and balls initially.

• 1:01:23Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:24Speaker 03

  Which I immediately registered all the domains.

• 1:01:25Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:26Speaker 03

  So you had to buy them from me.

• 1:01:27Tim Ferriss?

  Which I, I knew you would do, so I'm glad that that was.

• 1:01:30Speaker 03

  Right, you're suing me now.

• 1:01:30Tim Ferriss?

  A red herring. So I'm gonna take Moonbirds from you now.

• 1:01:36Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:01:38Tim Ferriss?

  I win. There's no NFT project. I just, oh, your birds, all the birds.

• 1:01:42Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 1:01:43Tim Ferriss?

  So, so that is, so that was actually one of several initial spitball ideas where I was like, okay, what is something that would just be really fun? Now, all the other things are also true, right? Like the engaging with tech, the engaging with art, the raising, hopefully raising money for the foundation. Those are all in play already at this point. But I was starting with, how can I make this fun for me? For me, for me, for me, for me, right? Because when I make things fun or interesting for me, it always comes across to, I mean, in the case of the books, like my readers, or in the podcast case, my listeners, right? When I'm not stoked about something, it is very hard for me to hide that.

• 1:02:26Tim Ferriss?

  So I was like, all right, how can I make this hilarious and fun for me? So Cock and Balls was definitely one, uh, was one idea. There were other ideas. Uh, one other idea was going to be, I was going to see if I could crowdsource eyes, meaning photographs of eyes from my audience. And then, this was before Dolly, actually. I mean, now you could really do some crazy stuff, although I think Dolly, by default, the outputs are owned by, uh, is it OpenAI?

• 1:02:59Speaker 03

  They're changing that now.

• 1:03:00Tim Ferriss?

  Okay, they are changing that. I mean, I.

• 1:03:01Speaker 03

  Changing that, yeah.

• 1:03:02Tim Ferriss?

  And then you have, you know, stable diffusion and so on, which I think by default makes everything. Public domain or CC zero. So that would be compatible, assuming that somebody had an approach like, like you have potentially, potentially, right? I mean, there, there are a lot of details. But I had this idea of doing something very interesting with eyes. And initially, the eyes as the, let's call it the window into the soul was going to be tied into consciousness and then like crypto for consciousness type fundraiser.

• 1:03:31Speaker 03

  Oh, man, you should still do this, by the way. You should talk to Platon. Have you chatted with him at all?

• 1:03:36Tim Ferriss?

  I have. His photography is fucking amazing. I love his photography. I don't think he and I have ever met.

• 1:03:44Speaker 03

  Oh, man, I gotta introduce you guys.

• 1:03:45Tim Ferriss?

  I've seen him present. His photos are amazing. I mean, the stories behind, for instance, his profile pic pointing up of Putin sitting in this throne, basically, and the backstory with the question about the Beatles. It's incredible. So, so, so I, so I haven't iced this idea completely, but this was one of the other ideas. Was like, okay, I'm gonna do eyes and do this and then have this spin on stylizing the eyes. I had all these ideas. Another idea, which was kind of, I don't want to say too on the nose, but it was gonna be for raising money for

• 1:04:21Tim Ferriss?

  the foundation again, and it was going to be taking molecules of current and lesser known, also novel psychedelics. It could be tryptamines, it could be phenethylamines, it could be any.

• 1:04:36Speaker 03

  You could sponsor a molecule by buying it as an NFT?

• 1:04:38Tim Ferriss?

  Well, you could potentially, so I thought about this also, like by buying an NFT

• 1:04:44Tim Ferriss?

  and looking at certain dynamics or mechanics, I should say, that there are ways that different molecules get weighted and then based on the weighting, funding is applied to say, studies that support different classes or types of molecules. And there are a lot of molecules, like there are databases of these molecules, at least as laid out in 2D. I'm sure there are ways, there are absolutely ways that you could visualize them in three dimensional space. But that was another idea, right? And then, I mean, I'm looking through, I'm looking through a bunch of my notes here. Yeah, some terrible names too. Watts, windows of the soul.

• 1:05:24Tim Ferriss?

  W O T S Watts was the, was gonna be some word play that would have definitely been changed. And I thought about different collaborations, for instance, I mean, I really think Brandon Stanton is amazing, the humans of New York. And he's a friend and I never, I haven't floated this by, by him because I didn't want to put him at any risk of some like NFT curve ball screwing things up. But I thought, man, like he would actually be an incredible person to potentially collaborate with on something like this. If it were purely a fundraiser, but let's, let's get back to-

• 1:06:03Speaker 03

  Wait, there was one you wanted to do with the Dilbert creator?

• 1:06:08Tim Ferriss?

  Was there? There might have been.

• 1:06:10Speaker 03

  Remember you, there was, was it the Dilbert? It was some comic-

• 1:06:13Tim Ferriss?

  I don't think it was, I do know, I mean, Scott Adams has been on the podcast. His, his story is quite amazing and his predictive ability-

• 1:06:21Speaker 03

  Look at your text with him. Look at your text with him. You wanted to call it Dil-

• 1:06:25Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, no, no, no, no, no. There was a joke. What the fuck was it?

• 1:06:29Speaker 03

  It was something NFT related.

• 1:06:32Speaker 03

  Who was it?

• 1:06:33Tim Ferriss?

  I think, I think that was a joke. Yeah. I think I wanted to call it Dildog.

• 1:06:39Speaker 03

  No, it wasn't Dildog.

• 1:06:42Tim Ferriss?

  I think it was.

• 1:06:44Speaker 03

  No, no, no, just look at your text with him. You texted him in Marfa and he never wrote back or some shit like he was like-

• 1:06:48Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, God.

• 1:06:49Speaker 03

  Horrified.

• 1:06:50Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah, no. It might've been Dildog. No, he said that he was gonna call, I think maybe in his, in the podcast we did together, that I joked that he- No, Dildog, Dildog was the name that got abandoned in favor of-

• 1:07:05Speaker 03

  No, this was, this was something so NFT specific. It was really good.

• 1:07:09Tim Ferriss?

  Oh shit, you know what? I do remember though, because we had had a bunch of tequila in Marfa and you and I were losing it laughing, which happened to be the same time that I stayed with you at that Airbnb where you're like, yeah, there are no blankets. And I slept on the couch at like, in 40 degrees with a fucking towel on and was like dying all night. And then we found the blankets just conveniently in a drawer like two days later. Uh, oh God. But anyway, all right. So Cock and Balls, do you want to see the real name of this thing and how it's developed?

• 1:07:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, let's do it, please.

• 1:07:39Tim Ferriss?

  All right. So I'm gonna show you a shot on my phone. So I'm gonna hold it up to the camera and I think you'll be able to see it.

• 1:07:47Speaker 03

  We're gonna have some actual graphics we can overlay too, because we gotta show our work and all that stuff.

• 1:07:52Tim Ferriss?

  So, and then I can explain the background on this. So now as it's a bit of preamble.

• 1:08:00Tim Ferriss?

  A little foreplay before I show you this thing. So, part of the reason that this name made me so happy, and it still makes me so happy, is number one, I'm just emotionally immature and an adolescent at heart, and I find this hilarious. Secondly, if anyone wants to criticize this, or slam it, or whatever, they're gonna have a really hard time not using this project name.

• 1:08:32Speaker 03

  Oh no.

• 1:08:33Tim Ferriss?

  So, in other words, they're gonna have to type it out or say it, which is gonna make me lose my shit laughing every time I see it. Okay, so here we go. This is in process, this is not the final version, but this is a possible logo for the project, which is going to also be fully animated, or I should say partially animated. So, here we go.

• 1:08:59Speaker 03

  Legend of Cock Punch?

• 1:09:08Tim Ferriss?

  So, you heard it here first, folks. So, this, uh, this project is called Cock Punch. And yes, before you ask, I have cockpunch.com, I have cockpunch.wtf, I have at Cock Punch on Twitter, I've got all the Cock Punch. So...

• 1:09:23Speaker 03

  Wow. How did you get Cock Punch on Twitter?

• 1:09:26Tim Ferriss?

  Oh my god. So, this is part of the reason why, there's a good chance I'm gonna lose money on this whole thing. I've put so much time and money into this, including buying shit like handles for Cock Punch. It's so stupid, Kevin Rose. I can't believe my entire career has led up to the point where the pinnacle, the synergy of all of these things I have done, is something called Cock Punch. But, it gives me a lot of glee. For a whole host of reasons. One is that I get to do something fun that actually should raise, hopefully, like a, I don't know, billion, two million, who knows how many dollars for the foundation,

• 1:10:06Tim Ferriss?

  which will immediately get deployed to science and scientists and projects that I care most about, that I think are uncrowded bets, that are super high leverage in the world in terms of impact and long-term benefit to humanity. So that is just hilarious that tech and our relationship and everything has coalesced in such a way that a project like this can even exist. So the, the, the explanation behind it, so it's called Cock Punch. Why is this called Cock Punch, right? I've shown you some of the artwork. Yeah. With the artwork, which I'm just so, I'm so happy with. It's amazing.

• 1:10:48Tim Ferriss?

  It is so incredibly detailed. And I'll give a couple, I'll, I'll mention a couple of things, which I might edit out later because I'm not sure how much I'm going to disclose before this launches. I was intending for a lot of things to be surprises, but times are tough. It's a weird market. I feel like I should share some of it. So there are eight primary houses, as I mentioned. There is a lot of history that has been put together for this. And what I realized about Cock and Balls in its original iteration was that, yeah, it's funny, but it's, it's very short-term funny. Right? It's like Cock and Balls, haha, I get it. Cock and Balls, it's cock, it's holding some balls, like bowling balls or billiard balls.

• 1:11:29Tim Ferriss?

  Like, yeah, okay, it's funny for a second and then it's just not very interesting. What I also realized about that initial Cock and Balls, I just love saying it, iteration, is there just wasn't much narrative or dynamic connective tissue to it at all, right? It was a joke. But what, what I realized very quickly as I was thinking of variations on that is I was like, okay, hold on. What if there were this fantasy world within which you have this warring states period? So there's basically this civil strife, warring states period, quite similar to Japan way back in the day,

• 1:12:11Tim Ferriss?

  not totally coincidental, just because I've studied so much Japanese history. And this is true for many, many, many places, by the way, before they became large nation states. There are these warring states periods. And at one point, this, this truce of sorts, this peacemaking mechanism was developed, which is kind of similar in some ways to how geopolitics can be exerted through the Olympics now for humans. Right? It's, it is kind of warfare through athletic means. So there is this, there is this entire area in this realm called the free trade zone. And within the free trade zone, a lot happens.

• 1:12:56Tim Ferriss?

  That is sort of the, the one demilitarized area within this realm. There is the eightfold arena, and within the eightfold arena, you have the great games. And the great games are one-on-one warfare between these characters, who are sent as representatives from the eight houses. And they're vetted in different ways. And that's part of the lore that I won't get into right now, because I want it to be a surprise.

• 1:13:25Speaker 03

  So it's a little MMA style slash Olympics slash like-

• 1:13:28Tim Ferriss?

  It's like MMA meets the Olympics meets Gladiator.

• 1:13:35Speaker 03

  And they're all roosters.

• 1:13:36Tim Ferriss?

  They're all roosters. And there are many questions this raises, which are going to be part of the mystery of this world. But-

• 1:13:45Speaker 03

  Are there any hens?

• 1:13:48Tim Ferriss?

  There are no hens. There are no hens. And this is going to be part of the mystery. Yeah, that's all I'm going to say about it. It's going to piss a lot of people off, I'm sure, and that's okay. Because then they're going to have to explain to people why they're so pissed off by a project that is called Cock Punch. For fuck's sake, people, you're taking life too seriously. Like, find another fight. This is not the fight worth fighting. But there, there are, there are no hens. And-

• 1:14:17Tim Ferriss?

  Can see why I've been having so much fun with this.

• 1:14:19Speaker 03

  You get really serious.

• 1:14:20Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, it's so great.

• 1:14:21Speaker 03

  I had to study the connective tissue between the IP rights of these different various projects. There are no hens. There are no hens.

• 1:14:26Tim Ferriss?

  Let me be clear. Let me be very clear, everybody. There are no hens. If you're, if you're, if you're buying these NFTs because you think they're hens, there are no hens. And

• 1:14:36Speaker 03

  Oh, God.

• 1:14:37Tim Ferriss?

  And so the artwork that you have seen

• 1:14:41Tim Ferriss?

  involves all manner of, and there are, there are a lot of elements involved, but they all have different gauntlets. Right? So the, I don't want to give away the name, but there is a specific name for these games. But colloquially throughout the realm, it is known as cock punch. Why? Because it's Bugsy Cox. And they have each these gauntlets. And that is one of their primary weapons is punching with these gauntlets. Hence cock punch. And

• 1:15:14Speaker 03

  So when the punching, wait, let's, let's, let's go into the, can we go into the actual how they look and whatnot?

• 1:15:19Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:19Speaker 03

  We should walk through what they're

• 1:15:21Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:15:23Tim Ferriss?

  How would you have to go through?

• 1:15:24Speaker 03

  Which ones did you want to walk through? I would say any of that you can send us to put up graphically and then you can walk through them.

• 1:15:28Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah. Let me, I'll show you again what I showed you before and I'll explain some of the components. Right? So so this guy here, it looks like it's turned around on my phone. So the quality is not going to be super high. But what you're looking at here is a very, very large kind of

• 1:15:48Tim Ferriss?

  Goliath rooster. And what you can, what you see, if you kind of double click on this, you see a handful of things. So at the very bottom of this, and the configuration of all this is not an accident. This is where all of the Easter eggs and stuff that's embedded in this fictional world, I think are going to be a lot of fun. But this, this example in the

• 1:16:12Tim Ferriss?

  In the logo, as I just shared it with you, is a Goliath rooster who will have many attributes people might associate with, say, a Berserker. Right? So think of maybe the fictionalized Vikings with battle axes and things of this type. And the visual, I mean, in this particular case, he's got war paint across his face and huge neck and also very detailed armor. And most of it is, in this case, leather. There is some metal at use,

• 1:16:55Tim Ferriss?

  but there are going to be one or two clans who have primary access to and expertise with metals. And that is one of the types of scarcity that will exist in this world. And that changes behavior and it changes how things flow and it changes the interactions. Right? At the bottom of this, you also have two gauntlets. And in this particular case, there are two gauntlets that are bladed and they have two different types of blades. But the, the, the type of gauntlet is really, really wide. I mean, I think we have,

• 1:17:37Tim Ferriss?

  God, I want to say close to 300 different attributes that were all designed from scratch.

• 1:17:44Speaker 03

  Crazy.

• 1:17:45Tim Ferriss?

  It's so incredibly detailed.

• 1:17:48Speaker 03

  I mean, how do you even come up with that many?

• 1:17:51Tim Ferriss?

  So we sat down and put together dozens of Google documents, put together hundreds of pieces. This is what I, what I did, you know, hundreds of pieces of reference images.

• 1:18:07Tim Ferriss?

  So be like, hey, it's a blend of these five things, but go to this Wikipedia page, go to the sixth paragraph on this particular weapon that was used in this particular culture. I want this aspect, but not this aspect. And I want it to be roughly this multiple in terms of the size of the hand. I want it to be held in this way. The level of detail is completely bananas and

• 1:18:31Tim Ferriss?

  Then there would be rough drafts and then illustration and design reviews. Sometimes those, almost always those would start in 2D. So something I haven't shared, which I'll share. And you saw the first teaser that was presented today that I put up on Twitter, at T Ferris and at Tim Tim Nifties.

• 1:18:54Speaker 03

  Soon.

• 1:18:55Tim Ferriss?

  Uh, and that teaser blew a lot of people away, right? It's, it's, it's well beyond what anyone would have expected. Uh, and the story behind how it was generated hints at a whole extra layer of complexity that also makes this very interesting, which is all of these characters are modeled in three dimensions. So the way that all these teasers were created was by positioning light sources and camera angles around these characters who exist.

• 1:19:37Tim Ferriss?

  And by doing that, you get these incredibly cinematic, stupidly, I think, awesome shots of these characters. It's all done with, in effect, you know, the files that people will ultimately have access to in 3D. It's going to start with 2D because these three dimensional files are, I don't know, like some of them are going to be enormous. They'll be like two gigs, right? So for mint purposes, it's just, it's going to be too, things will be more likely to break if we try to do that out of the gate, but they are all three dimensional, which means you can do all sorts of fun things with them. Right? If you take the time to learn how to use any of these three, you know,

• 1:20:20Tim Ferriss?

  three dimensional modeling, uh, pieces of software, you will be able to create photo shoots for your character and like rotate and so on. What that also means though, is we did not just create something in 2D. We had to keep in mind what it looks like when you rotate it all the way around, when you look at it from the top. So the, the sheer number of details.

• 1:20:45Tim Ferriss?

  To build in was crazy. It was, it's been so incredibly labor intensive and I've loved it, which is the maybe even crazier part. Like I am so, you, you mentioned that I'm kind of paranoid or very paranoid. It's true. Very hyper vigilant. I think there are a lot of good reasons for that. I, you know, a lot of weird shit has happened to me, including like some pretty gnarly stuff. So I think my, my default is like on alert, right? There's that. What that default on alert though, has as an upside because I'm very, very, very visually acute, right? I can probably draw the layout of every restaurant I've ever been in. Right? That's crazy. I have incredibly abnormal visual acuity and visual memory.

• 1:21:29Tim Ferriss?

  So reviewing this art, well, here, I'll give you a crazy example. You'll, you'll believe this too. It sounds unbelievable. I was surprised. So we had to go through at one point and not only did we create like 290 different traits. And by trait, like that could be a hairstyle, but, but more commonly it's like a really intricate piece of outerwear or a really intricate weapon or really intricate footwear, something like that. And then we need to go through and name all these things, right? Oh, I've been there. It's a lot of work. Yeah.

• 1:22:08Tim Ferriss?

  So I, so I went through with the project manager and named all of these things. I love naming things. There's a lot of power in names, a lot of power in names, which is going to be part of the whole lore and world that I'm building and have been building. But after naming all of them, I remembered every image and what name it was associated with. So like for the next week, I'd be like, hey, I want to change that one thing. It was called this, but I want to change it to amethyst deceiver. This is what the gam, this is what the gauntlet looks like. Here's the reason for doing it. Could you update that in the spreadsheet?

• 1:22:50Tim Ferriss?

  So, uh, this is, this is just a way of saying, uh, I don't think any. There's no detail that I noticed that has been overlooked in this art. Really proud of it.

• 1:23:03Speaker 03

  It's crazy. I was, when I was on a call with you and one of your folks were working on it, they were zooming in like really, really, really close along the edge to make sure that like everything was connecting the right way.

• 1:23:17Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:23:18Speaker 03

  And I was just blown away at like the attention to detail and just making sure that everything is just so perfect on these things.

• 1:23:24Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:24Speaker 03

  For such a project that like started off with such humble beginnings and like you were just like, it's crazy.

• 1:23:30Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah. And it's, and it's, and that right there is a great example of I think why I'm getting so much energy from this. Because, because from our initial conversations, there's no way I could have predicted this is what would have happened. And that's fun, right? That's fun. And there's another reason why it's like, yeah, what's your five year roadmap? Like number one, I, I'm not doing this to cater to day traders. I understand that traders are a part of this. I realize that's, in fact, in some ways, I think a healthy part of the ecosystem. We didn't even talk about royalties, but I do.

• 1:24:04Speaker 03

  Well, that's what I, that was my next question, actually.

• 1:24:06Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, fire away then, because this is, this is gonna tie in.

• 1:24:10Speaker 03

  Yeah. So my, my, my question that I had around this, especially when you got into a lot of the more like insanely well-defined weaponry and things of that nature, I can easily see you assigning, you know, power to each of these individual things, saying this character is, has more armor, this character has more of this, this and that. And like, given your background in D and D, like this could be an easy play to roll into either some type of game or, you know, I mean, that's, that's an obvious move. If we were back six months ago, eight months ago, and the royalty engine was fired up the way that it was back then.

• 1:24:47Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:48Speaker 03

  You could say, heck, I could launch this, get on a 10 to 15 million dollar a year run rate in terms of secondary royalties and fund the hell out of all these kind of crazy ideas.

• 1:24:57Tim Ferriss?

  Could fund all the development myself for stuff like that. Yeah.

• 1:24:59Speaker 03

  Yeah. And it's like, that would have been amazing. Sadly, that's no longer the case.

• 1:25:04Tim Ferriss?

  Yes.

• 1:25:05Speaker 03

  What's the plan? The cherry blossoms have shed their flowers. That's right.

• 1:25:11Tim Ferriss?

  Uh, well, you mean the plan in terms of royalties or just the the plan in terms of how I would want to explore things like that?

• 1:25:18Speaker 03

  I guess a couple of questions to that then. So one, what's your current take on royalties? And I said before, this is the eighth, so it things could be completely different by now in November eighth. And then also, how do you plan to fund things like that going forward?

• 1:25:33Tim Ferriss?

  Let me tackle the second one first. So the first, using first and second in a very confusing way. All right.

• 1:25:41Speaker 03

  Tackle the second one first.

• 1:25:45Tim Ferriss?

  Second hand, I'm going to tackle the first one second. So first,

• 1:25:49Tim Ferriss?

  how do I plan on funding these things in the future? I don't plan on funding these things in the future. So just so that is clear. I'm excited by the potential, like the the potential energy of this project is very, very high.

• 1:26:07Tim Ferriss?

  How and if that gets translated is a different question for me. So I am not committing to doing any of this derivative stuff or line extensions. Because I don't want people to buy any of these NFTs expecting that because they shouldn't. There's a very good chance I don't do any of that stuff.

• 1:26:29Tim Ferriss?

  In part because there's no funding for it. In part because if I don't enjoy it, if it's not giving me energy and I'm dealing with too much headache and dicks on the internet, then I will change direction. I'll do something else. So that's that. If I

• 1:26:45Tim Ferriss?

  want to explore those things later, I would imagine, given as you said, that the royalty engine, at least as it existed a year ago, is no longer. Those times have passed. And that the primary sales are going to the foundation. I would either have to go out of pocket in footing the dev costs for all those things, or I would need to partner with companies who would probably license the IP in some fashion, which is another reason why one could make the compelling argument for sort of controlling the integrity of the meta brand and world, right?

• 1:27:30Tim Ferriss?

  On some level, you can't totally control it. I'm not going to try to do that, but to sort of maintain a core integrity to that. So I think that if I were to explore, whether it's games, an animated series, or something like that, it would almost certainly be in partnership with a specialized company that does that and does it better than anyone else, who is willing to figure out some type of deal structure that allows that to happen, that doesn't require Tim Tim to, you know, take out a fourth mortgage on his house to try to make it work.

• 1:28:09Speaker 03

  I imagine your swag game is going to be pretty, like the, if your hats and shirts and stuff that you sell is probably going to do a lot of revenue.

• 1:28:17Tim Ferriss?

  There are so many options for fun things that can be done, but I don't want to get ahead of myself, right? I want to see what the next, I want to do a good job on this first. All of that stuff is going to be there and I'm not committing to it. It is exciting and fun to think about, but, and this happens to me with books too, by the way, like I need to be very careful about getting too excited about various spinoffs and marketing opportunities, because that's the fun, easy stuff for me to think about. Whereas like the writing, and in this case, like the art and the fiction, that's the hard part per se to get right. So I've just been focusing on that. But yeah, the marketing stuff, possible merch, all of that. Holy shit, I have a million ideas.

• 1:29:01Tim Ferriss?

  It's, I mean, it's kind of a layup, right? I mean, stock bunch for, for God's sake. So coming back to the royalties though, because I think this is a conversation that, that, that is worth having and I may come off as horribly naive. I'm sure people have arguments for this, that and the other thing. Let me begin with a story. So during COVID,

• 1:29:25Tim Ferriss?

  I had conversations with many artist friends, visual artists and also musicians, who could finally make money in some cases without touring all the time and being away from their family and friends. They could finally justify putting their energy into something that would pay them on an ongoing basis. They wouldn't be singing for their supper nonstop for nickels and dimes.

• 1:29:59Tim Ferriss?

  And

• 1:30:03Tim Ferriss?

  I realize that there are many market drivers, let's call it that, because I think that's exactly what it is, leading platforms to race to the bottom in terms of not just cutting their fees, but if that's not enough for them to survive and thrive and eat market share, let's figure out ways that we can cut other fees, including royalties to creators.

• 1:30:34Tim Ferriss?

  That tide may be impossible to stem, right? That may be something that is just inexorably marching towards zero, but on a philosophical basis, as someone who has contended with very difficult economics in the book world, and look, I have been very, very lucky and managed to like jump on top of a shooting star and I made it work for me, but I don't want to get into specifics, but people would be shocked

• 1:31:07Tim Ferriss?

  by, relatively speaking, how little money comes out of,

• 1:31:13Tim Ferriss?

  I guess, five books now that are number one New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestsellers that are like in 40 plus languages. They would be shocked at what that actually translates to, much like I think people would be shocked to learn what musicians make from tens and hundreds of millions of plays on some streaming platforms.

• 1:31:31Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:31:32Tim Ferriss?

  It's unbelievable how little that actually adds up to. So, well, I'll put it this way, actually, this is, I think I could say this, that all in, by the time this project is launched and kind of up and running, I probably will have spent the majority of after-tax.

• 1:31:52Tim Ferriss?

  Uh, income that I've made from all of my books combined in the last year.

• 1:31:57Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:31:57Tim Ferriss?

  Isn't that fucking crazy? Crazy. It's crazy, right?

• 1:32:01Speaker 03

  $50,000. That's crazy.

• 1:32:03Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. So, so it's, but it's, and, and you know me, like, I'm very judicious and thoughtful with how I spend money. Like, I think I'm very good at capital allocation. Like, I'm very surgical. So I'm not blowing money. Like, I'm spending it very, very intelligently and nonetheless.

• 1:32:21Speaker 03

  You're one of the best at that, actually.

• 1:32:23Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, thanks, man. Like, I'm really, I'm really high leverage and surgical with how I do it. And nonetheless, I'm all in with this thing, including like my time, which is a lot of time, and the time of my team and so on, and contractors and everything else. It'll probably be, uh, almost certainly more than 50% of the after-tax income to me from all of my books in the last, like, six to 12 months. That's crazy. So on a philosophical level, right? And I'm getting off easy compared to, say, musicians and most fine artists. Like, I'm getting off really, really easy because I've, I've had a tremendous amount of luck

• 1:33:09Tim Ferriss?

  and, uh, good fortune with the books. So on a philosophical level, I want,

• 1:33:18Tim Ferriss?

  I want gifted artists to be able to share their work and create new work and to be incentivized to do that in a way that allows them to thrive. I strongly stand for that.

• 1:33:32Speaker 03

  And I'm, I'm.

• 1:33:33Tim Ferriss?

  Furthermore, yeah, furthermore, I want nascent artists or would-be artists who are choosing between paths of like sellout to the man and go work at, like, fill in the blank, kind of rank and file institution, bank or whatever. No, not to talk smack about banks. Like, there's a place and a time for it. Some people are built for it. But for people who would shelve their dreams of exploring art. To take the reliable path because they see no way to make ends meet through art. I want to try to preserve options for them to do that. I think the world needs it.

• 1:34:14Tim Ferriss?

  And for that reason, I really strongly believe in trying to protect royalties. Now, that could just be whack a mole. It could just be a fool's errand because it's all going to zero anyway. But, but let's telescope out and, and consider what that might mean. If it goes to zero and royalty streams just disappear. And the call to arms and the request or the command from all the traders is, well, what you need to do is have a 10 year roadmap. You need to have a team. You need to raise money.

• 1:34:56Tim Ferriss?

  And instead of being an artist, actually, you need to be a startup CEO and founder first and foremost. And a fundraiser in order to get an entry ticket to play in this game. What do you think happens? 99.9% of all the artists disappear. That's what happens. So then what happens? Well, it doesn't paint a very rosy future for the space, I don't think. So personally,

• 1:35:26Tim Ferriss?

  even if it's like, all right, this is going to be the hill that I die on. And it doesn't really make a difference. Like I want, I do want to stand for royalties. That's how I feel right. That's how I feel right now.

• 1:35:34Speaker 03

  Well, I'm, I'm, here's, here's the thing, Tim, that it, I think you, I will agree on this. And tell me what you think about this statement. One, I think it's going to be fixed with code. I don't think the whack a mole option is going to be the one that fixes it for, for the long term. I think that's a, that's a, it's an arms race to like, who can outsmart the other one or deploy a new contract faster? It's like, it's an antivirus game. It's like the virus gets released and you have to quickly come up with a patch to like,

• 1:36:00Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, exactly. It's also not adaptable, right? Because retroactively, if you then need to modify your smart contract, that's not always a piece of cake, right?

• 1:36:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I, I think it's going to be, there'll be other technical, let's just say it gets solved over the long term. In, in this, and you are able to actually enforce royalties. I think it, the beautiful thing about it is if you see something that's enforcing a royalty and you see it on the screen that's enforcing the royalty, you don't have to buy it. Like let the market figure out. What is what the right because I think I think what'll most likely happen is gone. It'll probably be. Well, I think there's a couple of things I like to think of these as more dynamic than what what they are where it's always like, okay, it's 5%, right? Or it's 8% or it's 10% or whatever it may be. I like to think of them as something that can change with the situation.

• 1:36:52Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:52Speaker 03

  With a little bit more because for example.

• 1:36:55Tim Ferriss?

  And then I then I have a dream scenario that I want to tell you about. So please, please go. But I have this like dream wishlist type scenario related to this. So for example.

• 1:37:04Speaker 03

  So for for me, it's like, you know. Well, there's, there's, there's two things. I set the proof collective pass to be a three year membership, right? And I did that intentionally because I didn't want to tie myself up forever ever to be, you know, part of having to feed the mouse forever. Right? And it's so far it's been great.

• 1:37:21Tim Ferriss?

  Do you say feed the mouse?

• 1:37:23Speaker 03

  Mouse. Like the.

• 1:37:25Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah. I kind of like feed the mouse. That's the name of our new punk rock band.

• 1:37:30Speaker 03

  Well, to your point, though, right now, it still doesn't feel like work. It's like it's it's a good. We're creating great experiences for the people that own the passes, but I think it's the last six or eight passes that were sold were done so that escaped the royalties. Right?

• 1:37:45Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:46Speaker 03

  And so we have another side of the crowd that's like, hey, turn the pass on to be a forever pass. Get rid of the three years. We're coming up on a year now. We'll be a year in come January 1st. You have two years left. I have some fud. Make it a forever pass. But how can I make it a forever pass if there's not revenue to hire the employees to do the magic on the other side?

• 1:38:06Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:38:07Speaker 03

  So it's just like you kind of like, you can't have it both ways, right?

• 1:38:10Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah. My point. There needs to be income. As much as people seem to hate anyone else making money in web3, at least if I'm to judge it from NFT Twitter.

• 1:38:20Tim Ferriss?

  You need fuel to make these things run.

• 1:38:25Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:38:25Tim Ferriss?

  Whether it's a single artist in a fucking studio, or it's a company of people who have, who have a roadmap and want to deliver to their community. In either case, there needs to be fuel.

• 1:38:38Speaker 03

  The other piece of this that I think is really important is that there needs to be a checkbox that I believe personally, you'd get 80 plus percent of companies that would check this. Whereas if there is a sale where someone is losing money from the last transaction, don't charge them any royalties. Like if someone is underwater for something that they have collected on the art side, it just isn't working out. Like, why would I want to kick them while they're down? Right? Like, that would be a box that I would check right away.

• 1:39:06Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, that's interesting.

• 1:39:07Speaker 03

  And I think you, you, I don't know. To me, that there's, there's better, solutions are coming. I've been talking with a lot of folks and there's a lot of really interesting tech being built right now.

• 1:39:15Tim Ferriss?

  So what I was dreaming about, and I knew it wasn't gonna be, I didn't think it would be technically possible, but

• 1:39:26Tim Ferriss?

  part of what gives me so much excitement around this is that, and people might view this as a negative. I don't think they should. Like, I don't need to do this, right? Like, I'm choosing to do this, but I don't need to follow, I don't feel compelled to follow the dogma that has very quickly risen up to become scripture in Web three. Right? Like, you can't do this. You have to do this. You always have to do this. You can't do this. You, you know, it's like 12 months ago, you had to have a Discord. And then a couple of projects don't do it now. It's like, oh, no, now you don't need a Discord. It's just like, oh, my God, it's the same, just like opinion competition.

• 1:40:11Tim Ferriss?

  But these aren't actually the laws of nature.

• 1:40:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:16Tim Ferriss?

  There's a lot of room to maneuver. So what I was hoping I could do with the launch of this would to be to set basically a descending rate of royalty percentage so that if people hold.

• 1:40:36Tim Ferriss?

  They get rewarded in a sense, right? So if they, if they sell in the first month, 50% royalty. Right? If they sell after the first month, but like within six months, then it's, I'm making these numbers up, obviously. But like 20% and then it goes down and I therefore incentivize people to hold or more likely, I don't change any behavior. I attract people who are willing to hold.

• 1:41:03Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:41:03Tim Ferriss?

  For a longer period of time, which is appealing to me because I don't want to deal with the manic depressive folks who are just yelling on the internet every time they don't get a three X return on doing no work. I just don't have a lot of respect for that. I don't want to cater to that. And I recognize that there are really good people involved with the space. It's just that the worst in the space tend to be the loudest.

• 1:41:29Speaker 03

  It is, it is challenging, especially when someone's upside down in something where they put a lot of money in, and, and you know, the market takes a turn and it's a, it's, you have a lot of people that are in a, in a bad situation. So it's, you gotta feel.

• 1:41:44Tim Ferriss?

  It's bad. Coming back like a boomerang to one of the items in my FAQ. Please, please, please do not buy something called cock punch as an investment.

• 1:41:58Speaker 03

  Called cock punch?

• 1:41:59Tim Ferriss?

  Please, please, dear God.

• 1:42:02Speaker 03

  I think that's just safe for anything that has the word cock in it.

• 1:42:05Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:42:07Speaker 03

  I would say that you could broadly apply that to probably more than just yours.

• 1:42:11Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I agree. I agree.

• 1:42:12Speaker 03

  Well, the crypto dick buckets butts were hot for a minute.

• 1:42:16Tim Ferriss?

  You know, dick, dick butts, it doesn't, it doesn't ride the fucking hundred foot wave of memetic power in the same way that cock punch does.

• 1:42:24Speaker 03

  That's fair.

• 1:42:25Tim Ferriss?

  Just saying.

• 1:42:26Speaker 03

  So I want to, I want to close out with a few more logistical things on, on the cock side. So collection, you could have done 10K. You don't know where it's going to land. You haven't a hundred percent locked that in, but you're thinking what? Now?

• 1:42:42Tim Ferriss?

  I'm thinking.

• 1:42:46Tim Ferriss?

  That's what I'm thinking.

• 1:42:46Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:42:47Tim Ferriss?

  And then I haven't decided how many to reserve. But, you know, I like the idea.

• 1:42:56Tim Ferriss?

  This entire thing unexpectedly is turned into a study of economics and game theory. It's wild how complicated this stuff gets. And how deep you can go down that rabbit hole and get distracted, I think, from the art side. But you do need to think about certain aspects of it, right? So for instance, just the question of like, how many should I reserve? Like on one hand, I'm like, well, no primary sales, secondary, who the hell knows? So let me reserve a bunch and then I'll show that I've got like my skin in the game and incentives are aligned with everybody else. But then somebody said, well, somebody who's pretty, pretty well versed in the space said,

• 1:43:37Tim Ferriss?

  well, but if you have a huge reserve, then people will be worried about you selling a bunch at the peak and then flooding the market and, and driving the floor price down. And I was like, oh my God, I didn't even, I mean, number one, it wouldn't even occur to me to do that. But

• 1:43:53Speaker 03

  It would just ruin your reputation as a human. So I don't think you would ever do that.

• 1:43:56Tim Ferriss?

  No, I wouldn't do that. But the, I mean, so the other thing is like, look, if you don't know who I am, which like, why would you? I'm like tier F celebrity. But if you followed anything that I've ever done, then you can kind of answer any, you can answer most questions you would have about this project if you like followed it. Like if you think that I might do something like that, then you shouldn't buy it. And I don't think you've tracked any of the projects that I've done in the past.

• 1:44:25Speaker 03

  I would say there's, there's a couple of things there that I like. One, you hold them back and it gives you the, you personal optionality should, let's just say this thing is like starting to gain, gain some momentum. And you're like, the people are loving, loving the podcast, like the lore is going really well, you're like finding a writing groove, like things are going. Now you could say to the community, hey, The first day or the first and 15th of every month, I'm going to sell two of these.

• 1:44:53Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:53Speaker 03

  And all that cash is going to be used to fund development for X, right? And so you don't have to rely upon the royalties. You can go in and say, I'm holding these back. Should we ever want to use them? Or I could just flood the market and you all could lose that ever. But the choice is yours.

• 1:45:10Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah, I'm not. You know, I don't want to tell you what to do. Live your life, but these are your choices. A, you help me or B, I shoot your dog in the head.

• 1:45:21Tim Ferriss?

  So, yeah, so I, I like, I just like, I do think for me, right? For some people who are scheming bastards who just want to take the money and run. Maybe they would pull some stupidly short sighted move like flooding the market with a ton of their product, which is stupid. Doesn't make any sense for me. But I like the idea. For me, it will, I will feel strongly aligned and I like that idea. So that, so yeah, first, first, I guess logistics question that I think I feel quite confident about is roughly being available.

• 1:46:01Tim Ferriss?

  I'll tell you another reason why that's important is with the number of attributes that we have.

• 1:46:09Tim Ferriss?

  If we don't have a certain critical mass, we will not get a good distribution of those traits and attributes.

• 1:46:17Speaker 03

  Very true.

• 1:46:18Tim Ferriss?

  And I want people to see these things. We have put so much time and effort.

• 1:46:23Speaker 03

  That's why I think you should do.

• 1:46:26Speaker 03

  Like get a few more of them out there. I think given everything that you have on the, on that you've said that you're just going to commit to a first season of, like even just doing, you know, putting your energy into a new podcast that is going to be around this.

• 1:46:39Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, like it's not gonna, it's not gonna hurt, right? Like my, my main podcast, like Tim Ferriss Show has got to cross a billion downloads in the next handful of months, right? It's a big show. When I have launched and look, past performance is no guarantee of future performance. So please take this with a huge grain of salt. I launched dedicated episodes for my last two books, Tools of Titans and Tribe Mentors.

• 1:47:04Tim Ferriss?

  Things are much more competitive now. There are like 50,000 plus new podcasts come out per week. So everything has changed. Algorithms have changed, blah, blah, blah, blah. But both of those podcasts ended up being number one on Apple Podcasts out of all podcasts for a short period of time because of the way that things were weighted at that time. So I don't think that'll happen. I think things are too competitive. But when I launch a new podcast, at least a handful of people should listen to it and they're going to be so fucking confused.

• 1:47:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:35Tim Ferriss?

  That I think it's going to get talked about. Like to go from like dissecting world-class performers and deconstructing the habits and routines and favorite books that you can use in your own life to cock punch is going to be such a jarring

• 1:47:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:48Tim Ferriss?

  Transition that people are going to talk about it. So that'll be at the very least a very, very hilarious week.

• 1:47:57Speaker 03

  Well, this is, this is great, Tim. I, I think that I'm relieved. I'm relieved in that when I think of, of people that, you know, there's, there's so many, I'm sure you can imagine when Moonbirds like did its thing, right? And just like really took off.

• 1:48:15Tim Ferriss?

  Amazing.

• 1:48:15Speaker 03

  Everybody came out of the woodwork to pick my brain on NFTs. Also then it became like the, the number one phone call to like, I want to launch an NFT project, right? And a lot of them were really

• 1:48:27Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:27Speaker 03

  With no plan, you know? And my advice to a lot of people was just like, don't, don't do this unless you're willing to put your reputation at risk, or you have something that's new and novel and exciting and is like uniquely yours that you can point to and say, this is why I'm different than everything else out there. Right? Like your superpower, one of many, is, is your creativity on the writing side, right? And your ability to go in and dominate that space so well. And so you were playing to your superpowers, the, the art side and then also the, the creative writing side. It's like, I don't know, that's, that's, that's, that's a good, powerful combination that isn't just insert celebrity signing on artist to do drop to make,

• 1:49:11Speaker 03

  you know, X number of dollars and never show up again. Right?

• 1:49:13Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:49:14Speaker 03

  So it's exciting.

• 1:49:15Tim Ferriss?

  It's exciting. And I've, and I've also, I've, I've sort of painted myself into a

• 1:49:25Tim Ferriss?

  Productive creative corner in the sense that I decided way before any other decision that the all the primary sale proceeds would go to the foundation, right? So there is no option for me just rug pulling and running with my bags of loot to the to the Bahamas or to St. Kitts or whatever, right? Like I have I have created conditions such that I need to be creative. And that's great because that's what I wanted to do. So I've just created the constraints and the incentives such that that's what I got to do, which I'm very excited about. I remember it being in Austin at Elizabeth Street Cafe, drinking a Vietnamese coffee

• 1:50:09Tim Ferriss?

  and eating pastries while you were texting me during the Mood Murds launch. The fucking craziness that was ensuing and I was so happy for you, man. I love I love seeing my friends win and win so big and it was so fun to get those texts. It made me so happy. I was with a friend and I was like, oh, I appreciate that. Look at this, man. I'm so fucking happy. I was so it made my day that you were having such an amazing, amazing day. So that's what I wanted to say.

• 1:50:38Speaker 03

  I gotta tell you, I well, I appreciate that. That means means a lot, obviously, coming from you. And and the thing that I'll follow up with this is like, at the end of the day, I think that the the thing that I love most about working in this space and the reason why I get up still still even in this crazy market, still jazz to play is because it still does feel like play. It feels like we're making shit up and that's okay because this is a new frontier. We're figuring it out on the fly. And as long as it feels that way, it's going to be it's going to be fun and and a good creative things come from a place of comfort, I feel than a place of stress, right? And it seems like you're operating in a in a place that is low stress.

• 1:51:23Speaker 03

  Not you're not making it seem like it's just, you know, crazy roadmap. You're just going to have a good time and I think good things will follow from that. If that's the place you're operating.

• 1:51:31Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. And and I'll also.

• 1:51:36Tim Ferriss?

  Say something out loud that a number of people have encouraged me to say out loud. They're like, have you actually said that? And I'm like, no, I haven't. And they're like, you should, which is, and there, there, there are a few sentences. So it's not gonna take too long. It's not a TED Talk, but so the first is if you're, if you're, if you're serious all the time, you'll burn out before you get any other really serious work done. Like you, you can do serious work without taking yourself and it too seriously, because if you do that, you just burn out. I have yet to see a single exception. And also, and this is a grand experiment for me at least, but it seems very promising

• 1:52:18Tim Ferriss?

  that you can get very serious work done in fun ways. Right? So this is a project. It's a, it's a very elaborate art project with visual art and writing called Cock Punch. That's the proper pronunciation by the way. Cock Punch. And, and the funds from the primary sale are going to the SISA Foundation, which are going to fund therapeutics for people who are suffering from debilitating conditions like treatment-resistant depression, which I've suffered from for my entire life, and complex PTSD as a result of trauma like sexual abuse and experience war and so on.

• 1:53:01Tim Ferriss?

  I mean, these are serious fucking things and it can get really dark and really heavy when you're immersed in it, as I have been for many years now. So the, the possibility of having fun and injecting play and having the, the, the side effect of that, the output of that, then flow down into these very, very serious, high-leverage places is super exciting. So I hope, I hope, I hope, and I mean, I don't want to say expect because secret to happiness is low expectations, but. I'm very optimistic about this whole thing. And if it works, holy shit, man. Like, if it works, the door that that opens to me, because I've been so serious, man, for the last handful of years,

• 1:53:45Tim Ferriss?

  working on all this, these therapeutics. And it's dark. It's like you, you deal with these stories of trauma and so on. It's, it gets very dark. So the idea that I can continue to do that work, not abandon it, not abandon those people, not abandon myself, but to also have this like light, fun side that offsets it, that gives me longevity and endurance. Oh, man, that's exciting to me.

• 1:54:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's amazing. And I love that you're not taking yourself too seriously and, and just calling it something just ridiculous that you could also get shit for, for not having not be PC, by the way.

• 1:54:21Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah, I can't wait. I can't wait.

• 1:54:23Speaker 03

  I'm excited for you to be canceled next month.

• 1:54:25Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah, but, but in the process of trying to cancel me, they're gonna have to write and say cock punch over and over and over.

• 1:54:31Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:54:32Tim Ferriss?

  So, good luck, good luck. The, just the gymnastics that people are gonna have to go through from the peanut gallery to try to criticize it without actually taking the bait and saying or writing cock punch is gonna be just pure entertainment.

• 1:54:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, that and if this does take off, let's hope it's like, this could be gravestone material, where it's like creative cock punch.

• 1:54:57Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I was think, you know.

• 1:54:58Speaker 03

  Amazing.

• 1:54:59Tim Ferriss?

  Well, you know, I was thinking, one of the best moves, like, if I wanna walk the walk of not taking myself too seriously, launching this as my first major NFT project and first attempt at fictional world building is gonna mean that I would, what, like a third of my Wikipedia is gonna be dedicated to something called cock punch?

• 1:55:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, that makes me happy.

• 1:55:23Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, man, so anytime anyone in like, you know, the Netherlands is like, we run this business organization. We are thinking of having Tim Ferriss be a keynote speaker. Let's go to his Wikipedia page. It's gonna be like, cock punch, hello? So, it'll be interesting to see how that turns out.

• 1:55:37Speaker 03

  I love it. So good. Well, Tim.

• 1:55:40Tim Ferriss?

  Yes. Yes, sir.

• 1:55:43Speaker 03

  Great to have you on the show. Excited for this launch. I will be minting with bells on and hope I get the rare blue ball cock, which is the rarest, correct?

• 1:55:52Tim Ferriss?

  The blue balls, the blue balls are not common. Blue balls are not common. They're treasured. They are, they are, they're treasured, as are many others.

• 1:56:01Speaker 03

  They were joking, but that actually is true, right? The blue balls trade is treasured.

• 1:56:05Tim Ferriss?

  Blue balls are actually rare and I don't want to spoil all the secrets, but yes, blue balls are prized possessions. Those are going to be, those are going to be on the rare side of things. Cockpunch.com. Don't miss it.

• 1:56:18Speaker 03

  At Cock Punch on Twitter.

• 1:56:19Tim Ferriss?

  At Cock. Oh, my God. Kev, Kev, how did I end up here?

• 1:56:27Speaker 03

  Awesome. Thanks, brother. I'll see you on launch day with a tweet. I'll be retweeting every related post I possibly can.

• 1:56:35Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, it's gonna be, it's gonna be glorious. Can't wait. Great to spend time with you, brother.

• 1:56:41Tim Ferriss?

  Hey, guys. This is Tim again. Just a few more things before you take off. Number one, this is Five Bullet Friday. Do you want to get a short email from me? And would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little morsel of fun before the weekend? And Five Bullet Friday is a very short email where I share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week. That could include favorite new albums that I've discovered. It could include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up in the world of the esoteric, as I do. It could include favorite articles that I've read and that I've shared with my close friends, for instance. And it's very short. It's just a

• 1:57:24Tim Ferriss?

  little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend. So if you want to receive that, check it out. Just go to fourhourworkweek.com. That's fourhourworkweek.com all spelled out and just drop in your email and you will get the very next one. And if you sign up, I hope you enjoy it.

• 1:57:42Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Allform. If you've been listening to this podcast for a while, you've probably heard me talk about Helix Sleep and their mattresses, which I've been using since 2017. I have two of them upstairs from where I'm sitting at this moment. Helix has gone beyond the bedroom and started making sofas. They've launched a company called Allform, A-L-L-F-O-R-M, and they're making premium customizable sofas and chairs shipped right to your door at a fraction of the cost of traditional stores. So I'm sitting in my living room right now and it's entirely Allform furniture. I've got two chairs, I've got an ottoman, and I have an L-sectional couch. And I'll come back to that. You can pick your fabric. They're all spill, stain, and scratch resistant. The sofa color, the color of the legs, the sofa size, the shape to make sure it's perfect for you and your home.

• 1:58:28Tim Ferriss?

  Also, Allform arrives in just three to seven days, and you can assemble it all yourself in a few minutes. No tools needed. I was quite astonished by how modular and easy these things fit together, kind of like Lego pieces. They've got armchairs, love seats, all the way up to an eight-seat sectional. So there's something for everyone. You can also start small and kind of build on top of it. If you wanted to get a smaller couch and then build out on it, which is actually in a way what I did, because I can turn my L-sectional couch into a normal straight couch and then with a separate ottoman in a matter of about 60 seconds. It's pretty rad. So I mentioned I have all of these different things in this room. I use the natural leg finish, which is their lightest color, and I dig it. I mean, I've been using these things hours and hours and hours every single day.

• 1:59:11Tim Ferriss?

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• 1:59:55Tim Ferriss?

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• 2:00:03Tim Ferriss?

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• 2:00:44Tim Ferriss?

  I would go so far as to say it is the most nutrient-dense meat I have ever found because of the rich volcanic soils, remarkable plant diversity, and so on, including wild grazing. So I literally 10 minutes ago just finished eating some leftovers of ground Axis deer. This is Maui Nui Venison with some canned chili, just organic chili beans and so on, that I put into a pan and cooked for 10 minutes. And I would rather eat that than a $500 meal in New York City, honestly. It makes me happier on a deep level to eat this, and it makes me healthier on a fundamental level. So number three, ethically, I feel great about Maui Nui protein.

• 2:01:29Tim Ferriss?

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• 2:02:13Tim Ferriss?

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• 2:02:55Tim Ferriss?

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