Ep. 673: Cooking Bear Ribs and Getting Boned by Politics

Steven Rinella https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork talks with chef Michael Hunter https://www.instagram.com/thehunterchef/ of Antler Kitchen Bar https://www.antlerkitchenbar.com, Brody Henderson https://www.instagram.com/brodyjhenderson/, Janis Putelis https://www.instagram.com/janis_putelis/, Randall Williams https://www.instagram.com/randall__williams/, Phil Taylor https://www.instagram.com/philtaylor25/?hl=en, and Corinne Schneider https://www.instagram.com/corinnesschneider/?hl=en. Topics discussed: The current state of US-Canada relations; Michael’s new cookbook https://thehunterchef.com; fox hunting on horseback; lampreys on scrotums; being knowledgeable enough to know when something actually costs money vs. saves money; boned from the left and boned from the right; submit your pictures for our 2026 F*cked Up Old Trucks calendar; Clear Cut Jani; Crown Lands; fall vs. spring turkey; Steve's CWD+ burger; when wild hog ribs are actually too fatty; and more. Connect with Steve https://www.themeateater.com/authors/steven-rinella and The MeatEater Podcast Network https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork Steve on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/stevenrinella and Twitter https://twitter.com/stevenrinella?lang=en MeatEater on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/meateater, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/StevenRinellaMeatEater/, Twitter https://twitter.com/MeatEaterTV?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor, and Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Steven Rinella?

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• 0:45Steven Rinella?

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• 1:30Steven Rinella?

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• 2:12Steven Rinella?

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• 2:45Speaker 03

  This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug bitten, and in my case underwearless. We're the Meat Eater Podcast.

• 2:54Steven Rinella?

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• 3:16Steven Rinella?

  We have a Canadian here from the Great White North, repeat guest Hunter Chef Michael Hunter in from Toronto. How's it going, man?

• 3:24Speaker 04

  It's going well. Thank you.

• 3:25Steven Rinella?

  One word answer. Are you excited that we're gonna maybe invade your country?

• 3:33Speaker 04

  Oh, that's such a hard one.

• 3:36Speaker 04

  I can't, I can't. I'm gonna piss off a whole lot of people.

• 3:40Steven Rinella?

  You can't do it in one word.

• 3:41Speaker 04

  Not one word. No, no.

• 3:43Steven Rinella?

  Any tips for a country wanting to invade Canada? Should we hit from the east end?

• 3:48Speaker 04

  I mean, our military is non-existent compared to the American military, so it's not.

• 3:53Steven Rinella?

  You think a marine landing up in the maritime provinces, just coming right up through the plains?

• 3:57Speaker 04

  I think a multifaceted approach would probably.

• 4:00Steven Rinella?

  Hit them all over, overwhelm them. And I think in Red Dawn, didn't the Ruski's hit us down through the plains? Coming down through you. Why didn't you guys stop them in Red Dawn?

• 4:13Steven Rinella?

  I never thought of that.

• 4:14Speaker 04

  I gotta.

• 4:15Steven Rinella?

  You gotta just let it slip right through.

• 4:16Speaker 04

  Red Dawn.

• 4:18Steven Rinella?

  Red Dawn is the place to go to brush up on your history. You ever seen the movie Red Dawn?

• 4:23Speaker 04

  You know, it's been so long and I don't, I have this wonderful ability to forget movies.

• 4:28Steven Rinella?

  Well, they just kind of say that they came down through, but there was no mention to like a heroic resistance.

• 4:38Steven Rinella?

  So August, you have to keep mine as we prepared. As we prepare to hit you guys hard. You don't have like a little Maginot Line or anything built along there?

• 4:48Speaker 04

  No, no.

• 4:52Steven Rinella?

  He's got a new book out. We're going to talk about his new book. We're going to talk about his background that I didn't know that he, he, this is the only person I've ever, this is the closest I've ever been to someone that was on a, the closest I've ever been to someone that was on a fox hunt.

• 5:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. I grew up as a kid, you know, riding, uh, riding a pony. My mom was on a horse and we would fox hunt on horseback. Yeah.

• 5:12Steven Rinella?

  With little bugles and.

• 5:14Speaker 04

  So, yeah, the, the, the man that trained the hounds, the huntsman, you know, he was from England and, uh, you know, he, he had a horn and would blow the horn and the hounds would, you know, go left or go right or come back and.

• 5:25Steven Rinella?

  You're kidding.

• 5:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was, you know, he probably had like 30 hounds out.

• 5:30Speaker 05

  How do those hunts end?

• 5:33Speaker 04

  Most of the time by, you know, they would get on a chase and run, run a scent for a while. And then, you know, I would say 30% of the time they'd actually kill a, kill a coyote.

• 5:43Speaker 05

  The hounds would kill.

• 5:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:44Speaker 05

  So you don't like walk in there and.

• 5:46Speaker 04

  No, like there's no, no one's got a firearm, you know, I don't think anyway, not that I ever saw. Um, it's also been quite a few years since I've done it, but most of the hunts would, you know, wind up, we'd get on a chase, ride around for a few hours. They'd pack them back up into the, into the trailer and then we'd go have, uh, they'd call it the hunt breakfast. And then it'd be at, you know, someone's farmhouse or back at the club, there was a farm kind of clubhouse. And it'd be like a early, early, late afternoon kind of dinner sort of thing. They'd call it a breakfast.

• 6:12Steven Rinella?

  Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

• 6:13Speaker 04

  No, I was just, I was saying it was just, uh, they, they call it the hunt breakfast, but.

• 6:17Steven Rinella?

  Isn't it funny that?

• 6:20Steven Rinella?

  That that type of hunting has generated as much angst.

• 6:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 6:26Steven Rinella?

  As it has.

• 6:27Speaker 04

  A lot of anger.

• 6:28Steven Rinella?

  I can tell you about some stuff. If you think that's bad, I can tell you about some stuff that'd blow your mind.

• 6:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, so, you know, I know in, in England, they banned it and it's, it's more like, uh, you know, a cultural sort of historical, you know, bit about hunting, but in England is actually banned, which is kind of sad. Um, and it, you know, it still does happen in, in Canada and there's clubs in the US as well. Like, um, I have a friend in Georgia. So the huntsman actually that, that I grew up with, he, he now lives in, I think it's Georgia, uh, Bear Creek Hunt Club or something, something like that.

• 7:01Steven Rinella?

  When was the last time you went?

• 7:03Speaker 04

  I would have been like 14 years old. I was, I was a kid. Yeah.

• 7:06Steven Rinella?

  Got it. Got it. It's old news.

• 7:08Speaker 04

  But, uh, and then he was actually the, the guy that took me hunting for turkey, but for like the very, I'd never been hunting for food before. So I was in high school and, uh, I was, I was working in restaurants as a teenager. And I had just seen the documentary Food, Inc. and was interested in organic, you know, vegetable gardening at home and more organic food. And he took me hunting for turkey and I was just absolutely blown away by the flavor of wild turkey compared to,

• 7:34Steven Rinella?

  Oh, okay.

• 7:34Speaker 04

  You know, the farm stuff I'd been, you know, everyone grows up eating and, uh, and I, I just wanted to eat a more natural diet. So that's kind of how I started hunting.

• 7:43Steven Rinella?

  Great.

• 7:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:44Speaker 06

  Everyone can check out the tattoo on his arm.

• 7:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, the turkey, well, turkey.

• 7:48Steven Rinella?

  Let me see.

• 7:49Speaker 04

  Uh, turkey wing.

• 7:51Steven Rinella?

  There you go.

• 7:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:52Steven Rinella?

  Look at that. The tip of my, well.

• 7:58Steven Rinella?

  If I got a tattoo.

• 8:02Steven Rinella?

  Uh, you know what I want to get a tattoo of is, um,

• 8:06Steven Rinella?

  the other day I was making a comment that I was talking about, uh, I don't want this tattoo, but someone should get it. I was making a comment about them cutting, um, this, this applies to both of us. Cause we share the Great Lakes. Our two great nations.

• 8:25Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 8:29Steven Rinella?

  Them cutting all kinds of positions that work on lamp ray control.

• 8:34Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 8:34Steven Rinella?

  On our end.

• 8:35Speaker 07

  I saw that, yep.

• 8:36Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, and I was saying that the guys making those cuts wouldn't know a lamp ray if it was latched to their scrotum. That'd be a sweet tattoo. I don't want it. I don't want that tattoo, but it'd be a sweet tattoo.

• 8:48Speaker 07

  That'd be gnarly.

• 8:49Speaker 06

  Where, where should the person?

• 8:53Steven Rinella?

  Cause Chester already has that little.

• 8:55Speaker 05

  But would the, would the tattoo be?

• 8:58Steven Rinella?

  He already has a scrotum.

• 8:59Speaker 06

  Different versions of scrotal tattoo on Chester.

• 9:02Steven Rinella?

  Chester already has a scrotum accidentally. He thinks it's a, what does he think it is? A salmon fly?

• 9:07Speaker 06

  Oh, it's a like fishing hook, right?

• 9:09Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, he's got a scrotum. He's got a scrotum.

• 9:11Speaker 06

  Right.

• 9:12Steven Rinella?

  I'm gonna put some little, the little hair marks on it. And then I'm gonna, um, we're gonna have to like, put them under. I got, we're gonna give them a roofie. Or have to roofie them. And then I'm gonna tattoo a lamp ray latched onto it.

• 9:29Speaker 05

  Going all, it should go all the way up. I thought you might tattoo the, the lamp ray onto someone's.

• 9:35Speaker 07

  Yeah, and then you could have the tail kinda hanging down below the shorts when they're out running.

• 9:39Steven Rinella?

  Oh, that's so much better. But no one's ever gonna see that tattoo.

• 9:42Speaker 06

  Someone, well.

• 9:44Steven Rinella?

  But if you're at the beach in your shorts, there's a lamp ray coming out the hem.

• 9:47Speaker 07

  I feel like that's sort of a trendy thing right now is having a tattoo that goes down your thigh and people think, what's that? You know?

• 9:53Steven Rinella?

  What's that hooked to?

• 9:54Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 9:54Speaker 06

  Somebody who's listening may go get it and then email the meat eater or radio at the meat eater podcast and we can cover that off in tattoos I regret.

• 10:06Steven Rinella?

  I don't know, cause that dude that got Hugh Glass tattooed on him.

• 10:09Speaker 05

  Holy shit.

• 10:10Steven Rinella?

  Got tore up. But he had his little nipple. He had his little nipple become like a part of the bear. His little nipple was the bear's ear, I think.

• 10:19Speaker 06

  It wasn't a great, the shading.

• 10:21Steven Rinella?

  Listen, people tore that guy a new one. I felt bad for the son of a gun. Looked terrible for him. We got so many letters. So the last couple, here's, here's the deal, man. Phil, I wish we had like a theme, like a rant theme song, but you used heavy metal on Cal's rant.

• 10:35Speaker 07

  I did, yeah.

• 10:36Speaker 05

  I can do it.

• 10:37Steven Rinella?

  Maybe something more confessional?

• 10:38Speaker 06

  There are plenty of metal options to.

• 10:41Steven Rinella?

  Can you do something like to Seeger, like something maybe like to Night Moves?

• 10:45Speaker 05

  Oh, of course. Yeah, I would love to.

• 10:47Steven Rinella?

  Cause look, I mean, the end of Night Moves, when he gets like, have I explained Night Moves to you?

• 10:53Speaker 05

  I remember a Night Moves rant from years ago, but you can do it again. It's been a while.

• 11:00Steven Rinella?

  People think that Night, here's what Night Moves is about. Do I really?

• 11:06Speaker 07

  You've explained this to me.

• 11:07Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, we all know.

• 11:08Steven Rinella?

  I'm not gonna explain it.

• 11:09Speaker 05

  We all know what it's about.

• 11:10Steven Rinella?

  I'm not gonna explain it again. Yeah, something like that. But the end, the end, like woke last night to the sound of thunder, that part of Night Moves?

• 11:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, a little more contemplative.

• 11:19Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. So, but, so we got boatload. Like, I can't even keep track of all the letters we've gotten. On the subject of, cause the last few, the last bunch, two of the last three episodes, we've gotten into like all the hot-headed, like all the stuff going on at the, at the federal level.

• 11:38Steven Rinella?

  We had, uh, the president and CEO of Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership on, talking about the, we do an annual conservation state of the union thing, and he was talking about, um,

• 11:55Steven Rinella?

  what the next four years is gonna look like in dealing with the new administration. After that, after we recorded that, before it aired, we had all these layoffs of the federal land management agencies. Talked about that. Um, it's been a quick moving thing. In fact, so quick moving that we keep changing the release cadence of our episodes because things are happening so fast.

• 12:22Steven Rinella?

  We got a, I think partly maybe because of my comment about laying off, about people making cuts to lamp ray, um, lamp ray control efforts. If you're not aware, like lamp rays are a noxious species. They're, they're an invasive exotic. They're in the Great Lakes. And when they came into the Great Lakes, they just decimated, I mean, decimated Great Lakes fisheries, including really wiping out native fish. I mean, they, they just brutalized lake trout. And the Great Lakes fishery, there's a commercial component to the Great Lakes fishery. There's a huge, so, so food for people, right? Through tribal fisheries. A huge.

• 13:06Steven Rinella?

  Recreational driver. I mean, it is, it is, it is of paramount recreational fisheries are of paramount importance to economies in the Great Lakes. So by some, some city kid, tech kid, going in DC and sniffing around and feeling like he's being a hero by making all these cuts that he has no idea what he's talking about, meaning he went to a lamprey if it was latched to his scrotum, uh, isn't productive. Like it's, it's, it's, it's not saving money, right? It's costing money because in the case of something like this, controlling lampreys has cost tons of money. Destroying the fisheries in the Great Lakes costs a ton of money. So

• 13:49Steven Rinella?

  I was pointing out, I can't view this as, I can't view that as following into, um, into some like American, America first doctrine. Maybe they're doing it to bone Canada.

• 14:07Steven Rinella?

  Stretch. That maybe they're like, I know it's going to sink American fisheries, but this is really going to put the hurt on them in Canada too. I don't know. I don't know. Uh, we got so many letters in some guy, uh, there's been a lot of this going on and people like with, with how much stuff is happening right now on conservation? How much stuff is happening right now on cutting conservation spending in the US? There's this whole thing of like, well, that's what you, that's what you people should have expected. What'd you think was going to happen? And I had a guy being like, you voted for him? And here's the thing, and I pointed this out to him. I have never ever said, I've never said who I voted for. In

• 14:48Steven Rinella?

  fact, I've not said who I voted for because when I vote, I'm voting for I, I like on this show, my, my, my promise to audience has always been on this show that I try to, it's hard. Um, as, as Brody brought up, Brody's sitting right here. Brody recently brought up the point that, um, we always talk about conservation stuff in a bubble, right? Like you take conservation issues and you try to, you try to pull them out of their broader political context.

• 15:20Steven Rinella?

  And that's what we have historically always done on the show because we try to talk about issues that impact hunter like primarily issues of importance that impact hunters and anglers. And so we leave off like stuff about, you know, how one might feel about supporting Israel or any number of other things like you always try to leave it off.

• 15:40Steven Rinella?

  If I'm voting, I'm voting with other factors in mind besides just what benefits hunters and anglers. So in my discussions about conservation issues, I never talk about like I never on this show go and say who I voted for and I never endorse, I never explicitly endorse candidates. Because the same way, because people in their personal lives and in their daily lives and professional lives cannot trim their world down to just what impacts hunting and angling. Even though our, the show might have the aspiration of just talking about what impacts hunters and anglers.

• 16:26Steven Rinella?

  All of our lives are more complicated. So for me to go into talking about who I voted for and endorsing certain candidates, which I always avoid doing, I avoid endorsing candidates. I do that because when you vote for a specific person, you're voting for a whole pile of policies.

• 16:48Steven Rinella?

  And I might have a personal feeling about Israel, for instance, and that might influence how I vote, but that is going above and beyond the brand promise here of just talking about hunting and angling issues.

• 17:04Steven Rinella?

  So it's funny to have somebody like, well, you, he said, you voted for Trump for, because it's free speech issues. I said, hey, point out where I've ever said that. I said, I support. Straying away from the brand promise. This is gonna be the last time I stray away from the brand promise. I like, I like what Trump has to say about freedom of speech. I don't like social media platforms being, becoming a political arm and needing to bow to political pressures about what they cover. Okay. Don't like it. I also don't like them, the, the current White House kicking the AP out of White House press briefings because they

• 17:47Steven Rinella?

  refused to say Gulf of America. That is also like a, like a weird contradiction because that is an attack on freedom of speech in a weird way. So all this stuff cuts both ways. I've never said who I voted for, but I'll tell you this, I'm gonna like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, this is as much as I'm gonna say about it. I have not voted for a major party presidential candidate in 16 years.

• 18:12Steven Rinella?

  Okay. I've, in 16 years, I have not voted for a Democrat or Republican presidential candidate. Why? The biggest reason why is no matter what you do, you get boned.

• 18:27Steven Rinella?

  This is the point I was recently making on, I tried to make this point on a Instagram post where I was saying hunters and anglers, you always gotta be paranoid because someone's gonna come get you. You go look like, why, why do you always get boned by a major party? Okay. Go to Colorado where Colorado has like Democrats like firmly in control of Colorado. Colorado's become kinda like the, the, the hotspot of attacks on, on hunters. Washington, Washington state, these are like western states. There's other examples elsewhere. Washington state, big time Democrat, big time assault on hunters and anglers. All the time. This is the state that like banned fishing during COVID. You could go into your

• 19:11Steven Rinella?

  yard during COVID and hit a golf ball into a pond and be legal, but you, this is, I'm not, I'm not, this is the truth. You couldn't go in your yard and cast. A rapala into a pond during the pandemic. Like, that is the sort of, that is the sort of attitude, that's just like a small issue, but it's like an attitude they have about it. They are reflexively low on tag allocations. They are reflexively, um.

• 19:44Speaker 05

  You're talking about Washington.

• 19:45Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, like, all, like, tons of opposition around any kind of predator management, right? Limiting people's access to natural resources. Colorado coming out, like, you have a governor whose husband is like an active animal rights activist, and they're pushing a ban on bobcat and lion hunting in Colorado. Now, Colorado has this bill coming forward to change the language of what the fishing game agency's mandate is to say, like, um, instead of saying shall use hunting and fishing, they want to change it to may use hunting and fishing. Okay? A little minor switch to sort of tone, like, to sort of de-emphasize the role of hunters

• 20:30Steven Rinella?

  and anglers in wildlife management.

• 20:32Speaker 05

  And it takes power away from Colorado Parks and Wildlife.

• 20:35Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, and Colorado, and they had a, they had a, they, they put it to a, a vote to do a wolf, uh, reinto, or to do a wolf reintroduction on a timeline that was not in fitting with the State Department of Wildlife's timeline. So usurping the state's management agency, right, their, their management protocols. That's how you get boned, like, by Democrats, and you're, and they'll always bone you, they'll bone you on gun issues. Republicans are gonna, usually, as we're seeing right now, Republicans are gonna bone you on conservation issues. Generally, not always, but generally. We had an economist write in.

• 21:16Steven Rinella?

  He's like, first he lays out all of his, uh, bona fides. Randall, your man letters. Did you say bona fides?

• 21:24Speaker 05

  No, I find that to be very pretentious, yeah.

• 21:27Steven Rinella?

  Bona fides. I've tried bona fides a couple of times.

• 21:31Speaker 07

  No.

• 21:32Steven Rinella?

  It just feels.

• 21:32Speaker 07

  Doesn't roll off the tongue, right?

• 21:34Steven Rinella?

  Bona fides.

• 21:34Speaker 07

  I think you have to tilt your head back.

• 21:36Steven Rinella?

  So you're talking about your face.

• 21:37Speaker 06

  Wait, but isn't bona fides just not correct?

• 21:40Steven Rinella?

  Seems like a French film director. Now I'm thinking of Bonaparte. Bona fe- no, I think it is right. Bona fides?

• 21:48Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 21:48Speaker 07

  I've heard it both ways, but it's not very common.

• 21:52Steven Rinella?

  Here's what threw me off. Rort Denver. He's a Navy SEAL.

• 21:58Speaker 06

  He is?

• 21:59Steven Rinella?

  Hmm. Officer, lacrosse player, man of letters.

• 22:04Speaker 07

  Lacrosse players.

• 22:06Steven Rinella?

  Well, he said bona fides. So then I thought, maybe I've been doing it wrong my whole life.

• 22:10Speaker 07

  Hmm.

• 22:11Speaker 06

  Isn't there like, uh, where the, how pronunciation works?

• 22:18Steven Rinella?

  I'm going back to bona fides.

• 22:19Speaker 06

  I don't know how that, I can't read that. What's, what's, you know what I mean? When you have like the, the little hats on top of the vowels?

• 22:28Speaker 07

  The diacritical marks.

• 22:29Speaker 06

  How diacritical marks? Thank you.

• 22:31Speaker 07

  I don't even know if that's the right term.

• 22:35Speaker 06

  So I, okay, there's probably a, a right way.

• 22:39Speaker 07

  Brody's got it pulled up. He's gonna play with the internet pronunciation.

• 22:42Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, good luck, dude.

• 22:43Speaker 06

  Oh, it's not working. I think.

• 22:45Steven Rinella?

  They only put this too well.

• 22:46Speaker 06

  Maybe it's bona fides. Be, be that.

• 22:49Steven Rinella?

  It is, it is.

• 22:50Speaker 06

  Be des.

• 22:50Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, but I'm gonna say bona fides. What did you, Michael?

• 22:53Speaker 07

  I've never heard bona fides, so I, I would think it was bona fides.

• 22:56Steven Rinella?

  I'm sticking with it. He lays out all of his economic, uh, he's a, he's a, he lays out all of his economic bona fides.

• 23:04Speaker 07

  Credentials.

• 23:05Steven Rinella?

  Credentials. Yeah, just skip the whole thing altogether.

• 23:08Speaker 07

  Or maybe, do you roll the R? Credentials? It's the back of the throat.

• 23:14Steven Rinella?

  Lays out his credentials.

• 23:21Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, just no, yeah, we're good.

• 23:24Speaker 05

  Credentials.

• 23:24Speaker 04

  Message from our sponsors.

• 23:25Speaker 05

  No free ads, Planet Fitness.

• 23:28Steven Rinella?

  I'll tell you one thing that binds together all of the vehicles in the Rinella fleet at my house. They all have WeatherTech floor liners. When we get a new car, the first thing we do, out with the junky factory carpet mats, in with WeatherTech. They really are the best. They're indestructible. You can pull them out, hose them off. It doesn't matter what happens on the floor of your rig. If you got WeatherTech, you're going to be covered. I love these things. If you're looking to get a great gift for someone, especially if they're a big time outdoors kind of person, like if you really want to do them a favor, get them some WeatherTech floor liners for their truck or car. They'll have a way easier time keeping their rig nice and clean, and they'll get years and years of use out of

• 24:13Steven Rinella?

  a set. Visit weathertech.com for your holiday shopping today. Listen, we're all trying to save up for something. I got buddies saving up to buy their new house. I got people eyeing a new boat. I know buddies that are trying to switch out trucks and get an upgrade in their truck, whatever. People are always saving up for stuff. In reality, though, we see that it can be hard to actually save money. But that's what's great about the One Pay app. It makes saving money easy. First, you earn 3% cash back on up to $150 in monthly spending. You choose categories, okay, like Walmart, gas, or dining, and then get rewarded when you spend in those categories. So you're rewarded for what you're

• 24:56Steven Rinella?

  already buying. And with high yield savings, your money keeps growing. Download the One Pay app or visit onepay.com for banking that gives you more for what matters.

• 25:07Speaker 02

  One Pay is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by Coastal Community Bank or Lead Bank, members FDIC. Cash back is earned as points. Go to onepay.com/rewards-terms for redemption options and additional details.

• 25:23Steven Rinella?

  When you're outside cleaning fish, working in your garden, or just grinding through a long day of work, your hands take a beating. Dry, cracked hands can be brutal when you need to get work done. O'Keefe's Working Hands Hand Cream. Get your hands back and work in order. This stuff is the greatest stuff in the world. Like, most hand creams, you put them on, and then you're all kind of greasy and slimy and you can't grab stuff. You put the stuff on, your hands are ready to get back to work. It absorbs fast, creates a barrier to lock-in moisture, and doesn't leave your hands greasy at all. Do yourself a favor. Next time your hands feel like dried-out fish scales, get O'Keefe's Working Hands. I'm telling you, this stuff is amazing. Go to okeefescompany.com to get yours today.

• 26:03Steven Rinella?

  That's O-K-E-E-F-F-E-S, company.com, for guaranteed relief. O'Keefe's Working Hands. It works good.

• 26:15Steven Rinella?

  Here's a problem in talking about, here's this problem in talking about the cuts. There's a ton of problems in talking about the cuts.

• 26:25Steven Rinella?

  The way they're kind of framing it, they're kind of, if you talk about the sort of ham-handed conservation cuts that are going to wind up costing us money in a long time, the pro-cut crowd, of which I'm kind of a part of in some of these areas, the pro-cut crowd will then act like what you're saying is you want to spend money on, you want to spend money on, you know, funding certain plays for children in Panama. It's like, oh, if you want to point out some really stupid things Doge is doing, that must mean that you support spending taxpayer

• 27:07Steven Rinella?

  dollars on putting on plays in Panama. I'm like, no, no. I don't equate putting on plays in Panama, or whatever the hell it was. I don't equate that with letting the lamprey get reestablished and destroying Great Lakes fisheries. It's not the same thing. It's not the same thing. So, you're like, they try to bucket you in like, yet another person unhappy with what's going on in general. It's like, no, I'm not unhappy in general. I'm unhappy with some of these things that are happening that are really stupid. And I think that if you let, like, if you, if you need, if you need to make cuts to

• 27:45Steven Rinella?

  conservation spending, that's painful, but at least that you'd bring in new agency heads, let them fill out their agencies and then give them 90 days, 120 days, whatever the hell it is. And trust me, 90 days is not going to make a big difference here. 120 days, whatever, and say, come to me with the 10% reduction and at least let someone who would know a lamprey was latched onto their scrotum, decide what things ought to go. It's just the way they're doing it. It, it, it, it, like, the way they're doing

• 28:26Steven Rinella?

  it is reckless. And I'm talking about issues that are in America that impact Americans, like, public lands and public land, like, public lands are definitionally American, because any American can go on them. Right? It, it's like, you can't take these kind of cuts and act like this is part of this America first doctrine. It's just not. And I'm, and I, and I refuse to act like that by saying that you don't want to, that you don't want to gut conservation funding and public lands management is somehow like an implicit approval of us wasting our money on foreign escapades. It's totally different. This economy, this economist writes in, "The entire federal workforce only makes up 4.4%

• 29:11Steven Rinella?

  of the federal budget. Their incomes are also spent in the economy, which has a positive ripple effect known as the money multiplier. Trying to achieve a federal budget surplus by cutting workforce jobs is like trying to dig a 10-acre farm pond with a hand trowel." So what is the real objective with Doge if it's not to achieve a federal budget surplus? I don't know. Did I say I was reading a letter?

• 29:38Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 29:39Steven Rinella?

  I'm reading a letter.

• 29:40Speaker 05

  A while ago.

• 29:42Steven Rinella?

  Back to reading the letter. The letter goes on. So what's the real objective with Doge if it's not to achieve a federal budget surplus? I don't know. This is the letter. What I do know for certain is that a lot of necessary federal employees in many of our public lands are going to get punished for something they shouldn't involve, that shouldn't involve them. I also know that even if Doge gets everything they want, they still won't even come close to making up for the additional expenses that Trump's economic policies promised to add to the national debt.

• 30:14Steven Rinella?

  And we've gotten a million of these letters. I was the other day talking to, I was the other day talking to a federal researcher who works on salmon projects in Alaska. So here you have in Alaska, like salmon is a huge part of the economy. Remember earlier I was talking about with wildlife, like fisheries in the Great Lakes? Fisheries in the Great Lakes have a small commercial, commercial component and a huge,

• 30:44Steven Rinella?

  small commercial, keep saying commercial, small commercial component, huge recreational component. In Alaska, like if you take the commercial impact of salmon, it's enormous.

• 30:59Steven Rinella?

  And then there's recreational and then they have a third category of management strategy, like Alaska Fish and Game looks at sort of three things when they look at allocation of a resource. Top of the pile, first consideration for Alaska is subsistence. Meaning if you look, they break out, they break out people that are, that are going to extract wildlife resources and put them into three buckets. Subsistence sits on top. Subsistence priorities, subsistence takes priority. Meaning people in remote Alaska who rely on fishing game resources as their protein source, subsistence is top. Then comes commercial, recreational. They're tiered out, right? And there's always like a little bit of fighting between them.

• 31:42Steven Rinella?

  But here salmon drive all three layers of the stack. Salmon drive subsistence, life ways for many, many people along river systems and along the coast. It's like the, it's the primary protein source. Huge in terms of commercial fishery. Huge in terms of recreational fishery of paramount importance. So these geniuses that are gutting conservation spending have gone in and you keep staff in place, but you freeze their credit cards. That's like the move right now. You put a dollar limit on credit cards. So you have people that are gearing up right now during the salmon runs to begin all their work, monitoring salmon runs, describing salmon runs, habitat improvements, right?

• 32:27Steven Rinella?

  And you say, oh no, we're still going to pay you. Your credit cards are frozen, so you can't do any of your work. That seems like a great way to save money. They'd be like, if at this company I came in and said, no, no, no, everybody, I'm freezing your credit cards. But you're like, but today, because I'm already getting paid a salary. I was going to spend a few bucks to drive down the road to do my work. No, no, don't do that. Just sit tight. We're saving money. Really? You're not. It's like, you're not. Oh, I was getting back into like not voting for major. Oh yeah, I said not vote for major party candidates because they always bone you. They always bone you. And I've never voted for like, talking about voting. I've never voted for a third party that I actually liked.

• 33:12Steven Rinella?

  I just vote for third parties in order to embolden third party prospects. See how far that's how good that's gone in the last 16 years. Like Ross Pro, no one's topped Ross Pro, right?

• 33:27Speaker 07

  He's the prime example, I think.

• 33:30Steven Rinella?

  So you can see how effective my campaign is.

• 33:32Speaker 07

  Clearly.

• 33:35Steven Rinella?

  We got third party candidates coming through the roof. Um, it's not working. My plan to embolden my, my one man's plan to, uh, my one man's plan to embolden and prop up third party options in America is failing.

• 33:53Speaker 05

  Is this leading the news cycle in Canada too? Or is it, is it, where does it land?

• 33:57Speaker 04

  I definitely, we definitely hear a lot about American politics and especially now with the, you know, the tariff, you know, stuff that's going on. It's definitely more, more prevalent. You know, politically, Canada has been more of a boring place and, you know, since COVID, I think they're, they're taking a page from, from, I don't know if it's American politics or who's really fueling the, the divide, but there's definitely more of a divide now between left and right in Canada than, than I remember, you know, in the last 10 years.

• 34:27Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 34:28Speaker 04

  And we do, yeah, we do get a lot of American news. Yeah.

• 34:34Steven Rinella?

  They can do whatever they want with the tariffs. I'm staying out of it.

• 34:36Speaker 04

  It's stupid. It's stupid.

• 34:37Steven Rinella?

  I'm staying out of it.

• 34:38Speaker 04

  Yeah. It's not worth even talking about.

• 34:40Steven Rinella?

  Me and Yanni ran for president one time and we ran under better hunting and fishing, better hunting and fishing for America.

• 34:46Speaker 05

  You ran in a bubble.

• 34:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:48Steven Rinella?

  We tried to bubble out. We ran in a bubble.

• 34:53Steven Rinella?

  But my God.

• 35:02Steven Rinella?

  The only thing I can hope.

• 35:05Steven Rinella?

  I, I put a thing on Instagram where it was like, I don't even, I, I never met the kid. Some kid that works in North Carolina for the Forest Service.

• 35:14Steven Rinella?

  Who's like the only biologist in some, you know, hundreds or thousands of square miles of national forest, got brought back on.

• 35:26Steven Rinella?

  I don't know. If, if there's gonna be, if this is all like, gonna start making more sense and we're gonna start like, reprioritizing public lands and wildlife resources. But this, again, I think is coming from people that just don't care. They don't know. I don't think these kind of kids, these kind of kids that are doing this, like, they just don't seem to me like real hunting and fishing kids. And they're dabbling in a world that they just don't understand the implications of it. They don't understand, uh, what's going on in the last hundred years in this country around wildlife conservation and what it means economically.

• 36:12Steven Rinella?

  And to...

• 36:15Steven Rinella?

  Come in and be like that they're that they're owning the libs by uh gutting wildlife habitat wildlife habitat protections in this country. It's like it just doesn't make any sense, man.

• 36:30Steven Rinella?

  What else?

• 36:34Steven Rinella?

  We're doing a next year's calendar on old trucks.

• 36:37Speaker 05

  A certain kind of old truck.

• 36:39Steven Rinella?

  Good pivot.

• 36:42Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, so we've done, this is a, I'm soliciting, um.

• 36:48Steven Rinella?

  Well, Corinne even had a little note in our, we had like, we have new stuff in a document and Corinne has a little joke, makes him, make a joke about tariffs. What did you have, what did you have in mind, Corinne?

• 36:57Speaker 06

  No, that's how, that's how you kinda open things.

• 37:01Steven Rinella?

  No, no, I talked about us invading Canada.

• 37:05Steven Rinella?

  That was my joke. Too much to cover.

• 37:09Speaker 06

  No, I don't have tariff jokes. I thought you'd be,

• 37:14Speaker 06

  if I put it up top, you'd have a thing off the top of your head. We talked about this at dinner last night. We're like, are we gonna?

• 37:20Steven Rinella?

  Tariff joke.

• 37:21Speaker 05

  Well, his book's gonna be more expensive.

• 37:23Speaker 06

  Oh, there we go, bro.

• 37:25Steven Rinella?

  I don't know, because. Three tariffs. I don't think so.

• 37:29Speaker 05

  Where's it getting printed?

• 37:29Speaker 04

  We have the same publisher. There's, there's Canadian and American Penguin Random House, so.

• 37:35Steven Rinella?

  So hopefully they'll figure out.

• 37:36Speaker 04

  I think that it's gonna be equal across the world.

• 37:38Steven Rinella?

  But I hate to say this, but your book is beautiful and full of photographs and I got a feeling it ain't printed in either of our countries.

• 37:44Speaker 04

  No, it's not.

• 37:46Steven Rinella?

  Cause that's hard to get.

• 37:47Speaker 04

  It is not.

• 37:48Steven Rinella?

  It's one of those things. It's one of those things. It's like.

• 37:50Speaker 05

  We don't do anymore.

• 37:51Steven Rinella?

  It's one of those things that, um. Yeah, it's funny when you get exposed to different industries. It's one of those things that just, that, that America, Canada too, not too old up for in a weird way.

• 38:04Steven Rinella?

  Like, if a book, a book that goes into a book that winds up being like a bunch of photographs colored in it, it's just like, we got out of the biz.

• 38:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 38:13Steven Rinella?

  We got out of the biz.

• 38:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 38:14Steven Rinella?

  It's so weird. It's like certain things like, like sewing certain kinds of clothes and stuff and waterproof laminates and stuff like US like got out of the business. Yeah, it's kind of a shame. Yeah.

• 38:27Speaker 05

  What kind of trucks you gonna feature in this?

• 38:29Steven Rinella?

  Well, I'll tell you, Yanni, funny you ask.

• 38:31Speaker 05

  I hope there are gonna be trucks that can still start and be driven.

• 38:35Steven Rinella?

  Hmm. Hmm.

• 38:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, what are the, what are the parameters?

• 38:39Steven Rinella?

  Let me lay it out.

• 38:40Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 38:41Steven Rinella?

  In the past, we've done, we did a calendar, the first one was, uh, fucked up old deer stands. And we had some of our own fucked up old deer stand photos, and then we got, we crowdsourced fucked up old deer stand photos. Then we did fucked up old taxidermy, again, some of our own, we got some from people. And then we did.

• 39:05Speaker 05

  Took a break from that series for one year.

• 39:07Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, and then did fucked up old shitters.

• 39:09Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:10Steven Rinella?

  Had some of our own and had other people's old shitters. This year, we're doing fucked up old trucks.

• 39:17Speaker 05

  Hunting trucks, but we don't want to put hunting in the title.

• 39:20Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, it's just too many words for the calendar, but you know what I'm saying. Riggs.

• 39:23Speaker 05

  But I think, Yanni.

• 39:24Steven Rinella?

  Fucked up old hunting rigs.

• 39:25Speaker 05

  What about? I think Yannis has a point.

• 39:27Steven Rinella?

  I agree with Yannis. I'm not done laying it all out.

• 39:30Speaker 05

  All right.

• 39:30Steven Rinella?

  Just give me a second.

• 39:31Speaker 05

  Go ahead.

• 39:33Steven Rinella?

  Hold your point, Yannis. I'm just trying to lay the base, the base here, because there's certain things that are different.

• 39:37Speaker 05

  I'm right here.

• 39:38Steven Rinella?

  What's the email address?

• 39:40Speaker 05

  Uh, [email protected].

• 39:43Steven Rinella?

  Okay, the calendar is fucked up old trucks. It's the 2026 calendar.

• 39:50Steven Rinella?

  If you send, so here's the deal. We're partnering on this year's calendar with, uh, backcountry hunters and anglers. The reason we're partnering with BHA on this year's calendar is because, um, I think there, no, I think, it's kind of like, there are a lot of public lands fights just a brewing right now. And as we talked about on our conservation, um, State of the Union conservation piece, one of the things I liked about, again, one of the things, one of the things I liked about Trump 1.0, Trump's first administration, is they didn't, um,

• 40:32Steven Rinella?

  He campaigned on not wanting to sell off public lands and stay true to it.

• 40:38Steven Rinella?

  There's a tenor shift right now. There are a bunch of public lands fights brewing state level, federal level. It's going to get hot. So we're going to partner with BHA.

• 40:49Steven Rinella?

  On the calendar. If one of your photos gets selected for, if one of your photos gets selected for the calendar, we're going to send you, what do you get? A $500 gift card?

• 41:00Speaker 05

  I think we're doing 250 gift card. You'll get a free BHA membership.

• 41:05Steven Rinella?

  In a swag bag.

• 41:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, in a swag bag.

• 41:07Steven Rinella?

  Okay. So we'll send you a gift card. It's good for first light, FHF gear, Phelps game calls, DSD decoys.

• 41:15Speaker 05

  Anything at the store.

• 41:17Steven Rinella?

  You'll get a year-long BHA membership and BHA is putting together swag bags of other kind of goods.

• 41:25Speaker 05

  Yeah. And I think it's also important to note that a portion of the sale of every calendar will be donated to BHA.

• 41:33Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. So we got to do it all, but for every calendar we sell, two or three bucks will go directly to BHA.

• 41:39Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 41:40Steven Rinella?

  I think we're going to peel like our end. We're going to kick in a couple and then we're going to maybe raise the calendar another buck. Is that, is that kind of where we're at?

• 41:46Speaker 05

  No, the price is going to stay the same.

• 41:48Steven Rinella?

  You think the price is the same?

• 41:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think it'll stay the same.

• 41:50Steven Rinella?

  Okay. So for every calendar sold, we'll, we'll, we'll figure, I just got, we got to talk to the eggheads. The guys with the sharp pencils. But for every calendar sold, it'll be like a literal like calendar sold, it'll be whatever, like two or $3 goes directly over. Okay. Just like direct transfer over to BHA.

• 42:10Steven Rinella?

  When you get the calendar. It's fucked up old trucks, but what we mean is fucked up old hunting rigs. Now, Yanni, go ahead.

• 42:20Speaker 05

  I sure hope these fucked up old hunting rigs will still start and be able to be driven. Yeah, I don't think we should.

• 42:27Speaker 07

  We don't want 12 photos of just burning, like burned up hulks of metal.

• 42:31Speaker 05

  Rusting.

• 42:31Steven Rinella?

  You don't have to go far enough. Why do you have to pick all those burning? What are you talking about?

• 42:35Speaker 07

  I just think like.

• 42:36Steven Rinella?

  I'm reading about the battle of Manila right now.

• 42:38Speaker 07

  We're looking for something with character, not just that it's been really fucked up.

• 42:42Speaker 06

  What if it's like fucked up in terms of like mold and rod and old blood and like fish scales?

• 42:48Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, that's what we're looking for. But here's the deal. Have you ever thumbed through one of the calendars?

• 42:53Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 42:53Steven Rinella?

  Okay, it's great breadth.

• 42:55Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 42:56Steven Rinella?

  And shitters, and shitters, we had a poorly built shitter that the wind had blown down into a gully.

• 43:02Speaker 07

  Mm hmm.

• 43:03Steven Rinella?

  Okay. And then we had a shitter that someone had carved out of a giant.

• 43:09Speaker 06

  That was so.

• 43:10Speaker 05

  Some kind of cedar.

• 43:11Speaker 06

  So.

• 43:12Steven Rinella?

  Carved a gnome shitter out of a giant cedar with a chainsaw where you actually walked into a hollow tree. So you can have a, a, a, it's not like it's gonna be, it's not like people are gonna buy the calendar, it's gonna be 12 burned up trucks.

• 43:25Speaker 07

  I'm just saying, like, in the event, in the, in the event that a guy has, like, an old hunting rig that the doors have fallen off and the, the floors rusted out. But he also has a photo of a truck that he wrapped around a telephone pole. We're looking for the former rather than ladder, right? Like, we want character in the, in the fucked up in this.

• 43:45Steven Rinella?

  But you're, you're, you're thinking that, that, you're thinking that your average dude out there can go out and go left and find a burned out fucked up old hunting truck? And then go right? It's like, how many do they have access to?

• 43:56Speaker 07

  I, I would think, um.

• 43:58Speaker 05

  I, I'm just saying, we don't want, just, just to.

• 44:01Steven Rinella?

  Watch, watch your use of we.

• 44:04Speaker 07

  I, I am only suggesting that we're not looking for fucked up as a measure of, and how bad of shape it's in. It's, it's gotta have some.

• 44:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, you can walk down to the junkyard right at the airport and find 20 fucked up old trucks. Like, it needs to be more than that.

• 44:21Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, but everybody knows what we mean.

• 44:24Speaker 05

  Trucks that were used to go hunting.

• 44:26Speaker 07

  No, no, I, I don't. I think you should just, just in your mind, just paint me a picture.

• 44:32Speaker 05

  Yeah, this is all I'm trying to.

• 44:34Speaker 07

  Fucked up old hunting rig that you would be like, that's a good one. I'm gonna put that one in February.

• 44:38Speaker 05

  He's gonna post one.

• 44:40Steven Rinella?

  The Aeturia.

• 44:41Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 44:43Steven Rinella?

  The Suburban. The cutoffs of safari truck.

• 44:47Speaker 07

  I think.

• 44:47Steven Rinella?

  Ain't fucked up. You know what I told Brad last time I was down there? He tried to ride in it. It is, it is. You know, I told Brad last time I was down there, I said like, Brad, one of two things needs to happen. You need to fix the power steering box on this or widen the road.

• 45:03Steven Rinella?

  He's like, funny you mentioned that.

• 45:06Steven Rinella?

  Think about widening the road. Uh, yes, it is. That's what I'm talking about. But here's the thing, if you go look at fucked up old deer stands. It's it like thumb through fucked up old deer stands. Is it a 12 photos of crumpled up ladder stands?

• 45:21Speaker 07

  No, I've just.

• 45:22Steven Rinella?

  That have been through house fires?

• 45:23Speaker 07

  I'm just, I, I, I don't think it's a deviation from what we've done in the past. I'm just trying to give people a sense of if they're not familiar with the series.

• 45:33Steven Rinella?

  What kind of idiots do you think are listening?

• 45:35Speaker 07

  I, I, I take back everything that I've said.

• 45:38Speaker 05

  Could be your truck.

• 45:39Steven Rinella?

  Did you hear what Phil said back there?

• 45:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 45:42Steven Rinella?

  I did.

• 45:43Speaker 05

  It could be your truck, could be your granddaddy's truck.

• 45:45Steven Rinella?

  Well, I'm just, Steve, you've done an impression of many of your, your loyal listeners. I think it sounds something like so they're, they're out there. Just saying. No, that's the noise for people I don't agree with. Okay. We're looking for oddities. Yes, and I feel. Okay, but that's not the calendar series. It's not odd old trucks.

• 46:05Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 46:06Steven Rinella?

  I know. And so I think we have a little bit of. Odd old trucks. No one wants that calendar? You like to have, you know, friction at times. And I think we have a little bit of friction between the title and what we're actually looking for.

• 46:19Speaker 05

  I don't think so. We're gonna look at a thousand different photos and we're gonna pick the cool ones.

• 46:24Speaker 07

  Like, I'd like a, I'd like a hunting ring.

• 46:26Steven Rinella?

  Why are you guys even talking about me and Brody's project?

• 46:29Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 46:32Steven Rinella?

  Brody took over this year's calendar. Where's your, give me your calendar bona fides, man.

• 46:37Speaker 07

  I think I had a couple rather clever captions in the fucked up old chitters calendar.

• 46:42Steven Rinella?

  I think if you ask for. When we do captions? Cool. When we do captions for fucked up old trucks? Guess who ain't coming? I'm pointing at them.

• 46:51Steven Rinella?

  Not invited. Ouch.

• 46:53Speaker 07

  But I love it so much.

• 46:54Steven Rinella?

  If you just ask for- Unless you apologize.

• 46:57Speaker 07

  I wasn't trying to correct anything you've said. I was just trying to add some, add some, some guidelines. You know, if you have a truck that the driver's seat's ripped out and you have to sit on the, a milk crate or something to-

• 47:07Speaker 06

  Because he appreciates-

• 47:08Steven Rinella?

  You're Zelensky.

• 47:10Speaker 06

  Oh, shit.

• 47:11Steven Rinella?

  If you want to come to this calendar's fucked up old trucks meeting, you apologize. And thank me.

• 47:20Steven Rinella?

  Thank me.

• 47:20Speaker 07

  I will not.

• 47:25Steven Rinella?

  Now, now I do want Randall to come to the meeting. You can still come to the meeting.

• 47:28Speaker 06

  Of course you do. He's trying to put parameters on people from just like vomiting into our email inbox. It takes us a bajillion hours.

• 47:35Steven Rinella?

  Let me, let me take this more, let me take this more responsibly.

• 47:38Speaker 07

  Can I put a finer point on-

• 47:39Steven Rinella?

  No, we're gonna switch to Michael.

• 47:40Speaker 07

  Can I put a finer point on that?

• 47:42Steven Rinella?

  I am fine.

• 47:42Speaker 07

  We want it to be, you want it to be fucked up in an interesting way. Just not, alright, I take it back.

• 47:50Steven Rinella?

  No, I understand. Go on. Then I'll, I'll retort.

• 47:53Speaker 07

  That, no, that's, that's all. I was just, I was just trying to suggest that like, the more interesting it is as a fucked up thing, the more likely it is to end up in the calendar. Not just your average, like,

• 48:08Speaker 07

  I, I rest my case.

• 48:13Speaker 06

  Add that to the list of things that Steve feels very passionate about. His calendar problem.

• 48:21Speaker 07

  Okay, please.

• 48:25Steven Rinella?

  You're making, you're, you're a solution, looking for a problem.

• 48:32Steven Rinella?

  We have never had a problem with our audience understanding what we mean when we say fucked up old taxidermy. Like, when we did fucked up old taxidermy, go look through the calendar.

• 48:45Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 48:45Steven Rinella?

  Is it burned up taxidermy?

• 48:49Speaker 07

  There was some char taxidermy, I believe, in that calendar.

• 48:52Steven Rinella?

  You're right. A little bit. And there was a shitter that had burned up.

• 48:59Speaker 07

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:00Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. So. To go in, folks, get the gasoline.

• 49:05Speaker 05

  And have at it.

• 49:07Steven Rinella?

  But you're you're acting like you're acting like people don't understand what we mean when we say a fucked up old truck. And you're like you're you're you're infantilizing them and you're um. What's that? What is another word like that?

• 49:23Speaker 06

  Patronizing?

• 49:24Steven Rinella?

  You're patronizing them and infantilizing them as though they don't know a fucked up old truck when they see one.

• 49:29Speaker 04

  Well, trucks are a dime a dozen. There's so many trucks out there.

• 49:32Speaker 06

  I think we've been on the subject for a second.

• 49:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, I have to be more specific. I'm with Randall. I get it.

• 49:37Steven Rinella?

  Here, I got a I got a way to put numbers around it.

• 49:39Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 49:39Steven Rinella?

  We'll put numbers around it. I'll bet I'll bet you right now $100.

• 49:43Speaker 06

  Mm hmm.

• 49:44Speaker 04

  Uh oh.

• 49:45Steven Rinella?

  $100 as we sit right now, where we're sitting right now.

• 49:47Speaker 06

  Last time you bet with me, you didn't pay up.

• 49:49Steven Rinella?

  Oh, what do I owe you money?

• 49:51Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 49:51Steven Rinella?

  For what?

• 49:52Speaker 06

  For when we were talking about the Arizona thing and what episode we mentioned the whole Arizona state. Big game raffle.

• 50:02Steven Rinella?

  And who was right?

• 50:03Speaker 06

  I was, of course I was.

• 50:04Steven Rinella?

  How much did I bet you?

• 50:05Speaker 06

  It was like $5.

• 50:06Steven Rinella?

  Oh, I'll pay you.

• 50:07Speaker 06

  I don't need it. Don't worry. I'm just saying.

• 50:09Steven Rinella?

  I won a $1,000 bet against Yanis and forgave him. I won a $1,000 bet against my sister in law, Karina, and forgave her. I better at one point in time, I better that in 10 years Pebble Mine, it was like my bet was that Pebble Mine. And it was a 10 year window. I was like, in a decade Pebble Mine will not be developed and I won. And forgave her the $1,000.

• 50:32Speaker 06

  I'm forgiving you.

• 50:32Speaker 06

  Let's wrap this calendar stuff up.

• 50:33Speaker 06

  I'm forgiving you the $5.

• 50:35Steven Rinella?

  Well, no, no, here's the bet. Here's the bet. Me and Randall are betting $100. We got a witness. And here's the bet. And I don't know. We'll have to put it to Seth to figure out. I bet you.

• 50:49Steven Rinella?

  That of all the submissions. 50%. Will demonstrate. What I understand to be people's understanding of what is a fucked up old truck.

• 51:05Steven Rinella?

  A minimum of 50% will be like, well, look, it'll be like, it'll be, you'll put a picture up. It'll be like, gets it, doesn't get it.

• 51:12Speaker 07

  But what you're saying there is that my guidance and further clarification would in fact have been needed for one out of every two listeners.

• 51:24Speaker 07

  Because 50% would not be in line with what you think of as a fucked up truck.

• 51:28Steven Rinella?

  Brody, what percent make the calendar? What percent of submissions make the calendar?

• 51:32Speaker 05

  Well, less than one, probably.

• 51:33Steven Rinella?

  Way less than one.

• 51:34Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 51:35Speaker 07

  So I'm just trying to be helpful.

• 51:36Speaker 05

  Going back to my point, we'll get a lot of really cool photos. We'll pick the coolest ones, still end up in the calendar.

• 51:42Steven Rinella?

  Period.

• 51:43Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 51:44Steven Rinella?

  But we were talking about doing this too. As we're talking about building a voting function.

• 51:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, we're gonna do that.

• 51:51Steven Rinella?

  We're gonna build a voting function where, I don't know how it's gonna work.

• 51:54Speaker 05

  Well, say we get a thousand, it'll be more, probably, but let's say we get a thousand submissions. We'll have a website, we'll, we'll select a hundred of those. Put them on the website and people will vote and the top, say 10 will end up in the calendar.

• 52:13Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, but we need to, here's the thing is like, you know, here's a, like a complication with, with, with democracy. Is we're like, what if we do the whole vote thing? But there's some that we just like too much and they don't make it. That's why we're gonna peel off.

• 52:29Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 52:30Speaker 07

  Checks and balances.

• 52:31Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, we're gonna peel off and we're gonna by executive order.

• 52:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 52:35Steven Rinella?

  By executive order, we're gonna have.

• 52:38Speaker 05

  You're gonna do your birthday months, like you'll have February.

• 52:41Steven Rinella?

  Our faves.

• 52:42Speaker 05

  And Brody.

• 52:42Speaker 07

  In the time that we've now discussed this, someone could have gone to a dealership, driven off the lot with a nice new truck and turned it into a fucked up old hunting truck.

• 52:52Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 52:53Speaker 05

  I will say, I'll add, I'm gonna add one more thing. This doesn't guarantee you're gonna get in the calendar, but if you got a sweet photo of your fucked up old hunting rig on public land, that's even better.

• 53:05Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, or you just say it was public land.

• 53:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 53:08Speaker 05

  Well.

• 53:08Steven Rinella?

  Um.

• 53:11Steven Rinella?

  So yeah, game on. Game on fucked up old trucks.

• 53:17Steven Rinella?

  Uh, not very far into our document.

• 53:23Speaker 06

  You know, I just suggested to Phil that when we edit this, we play the fast forward sound effects. So it's like, you know, fucked up old truck. Fucked up old trucks. No, no edits. And then there's still arguments so we can get through this, but I guess. No, we're getting there. This is my favorite episode in a while. Keep it going.

• 53:40Steven Rinella?

  I'll tell you one thing that binds together all of the vehicles in the Rinella fleet at my house. They all have WeatherTech floor liners. When we get a new car, the first thing we do, out with the junky factory carpet mats, in with WeatherTech. They really are the best. They're indestructible. You can pull them out, hose them off. It doesn't matter what happens on the floor of your rig. If you got WeatherTech, you're going to be covered. I love these things. If you're looking to get a great gift for someone, especially if they're a big time outdoors kind of person, like if you really want to do them a favor, get them some WeatherTech floor liners for their truck or car. They'll have a way easier time keeping their rig

• 54:20Steven Rinella?

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• 55:03Steven Rinella?

  steps with the One Pay Builder Card. Download the One Pay app or visit onepay.com for banking that gives you more for what matters.

• 55:14Speaker 02

  One Pay is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by Coastal Community Bank or Lead Bank. Members FDIC. Builder card results may vary and aren't guaranteed. Learn more about banking through onepay at onepay.com/podcast.

• 55:28Steven Rinella?

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• 56:09Steven Rinella?

  That's O-K-E-E-F-F-E-S-COMPANY.COM for guaranteed relief. O'Keefe's Working Hands. It works good. So, here's the next thing we're going to talk about. Has Yanni researched what his part of Wisconsin that he's deforesting looked like pre-contag?

• 56:31Speaker 05

  I am researching it. It is harder to find that information than you would think, but I'm partnering with a private lands biologist with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, and they're helping me put about five acres, actually we've turned it into seven now, seven acres of the property, we're going to turn it into an oak savanna. Are you familiar with that?

• 56:56Steven Rinella?

  That's what you're aiming for.

• 56:57Speaker 05

  Well, and we have 40 acres that we're dealing with, 50 really, but this is just seven acres of it is doing that. But because I feel like they have access to this sort of information, I was asking them. And because we're going to have a seed mixture, right, that goes in, once we, after we deforest the place, and then chemically burn the shit out of it, we're going to come in with native grass seed and forbs seed to bring in what's there. And I was saying, I was asking him, I said, "Well, are we going to go and look at historical data to, you know, to then inform what sort of stuff we try to plant back in there?" And he said, "Yes, we can do that, but..."

• 57:43Speaker 05

  Because things are constantly changing in the environment. It's not all like it can inform you, but what has happened in the past might not necessarily be what you want to do in the future. Because a hundred years ago or 200 years ago, the climate was a lot different than it is now. And so depending on what you want to see and the successes you want to have. Um, it could be different. So, yes.

• 58:08Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 58:09Speaker 05

  I have been researching.

• 58:10Steven Rinella?

  I think it's good whether or not you can achieve it or even want to achieve it. I think that understanding what it is would would enhance your.

• 58:18Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 58:19Steven Rinella?

  Great enhance your journey.

• 58:21Speaker 05

  Great.

• 58:21Steven Rinella?

  Your slash and burn deforestation journey.

• 58:28Speaker 05

  You want to continue? I can talk about this.

• 58:30Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, his memoir is gonna be, um, it's gonna be the lab.

• 58:33Speaker 05

  To cut a tree.

• 58:34Steven Rinella?

  The labian lover, my time as a deforestation agent.

• 58:38Speaker 05

  Um, no, our buddy Kyle Weibarger, you know, he's, I was listening to him recently, uh, talking about the state of Alabama. He says in, in probably since, uh, European contact, the state of Alabama has never had more trees than it has today.

• 58:55Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 58:55Speaker 05

  And he would like to see a lot of trees cut down and restored into native grasslands and prairie habitats.

• 59:01Steven Rinella?

  Understood. I'm mostly joking. I'm mostly teasing.

• 59:03Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, I know. He just gets a lot. I love talking about.

• 59:06Steven Rinella?

  No, well, okay, we'll get some time to dive in more deeply. There's another one that we're going to talk about today that we're going to have to punt on, but, um, God, it's a great question. Like I try to skirt free of like just major controversy on the show, but this guy's wondering like.

• 59:20Speaker 05

  Is that right?

• 59:21Steven Rinella?

  How much? He's wondering about, I don't know if I can, I don't know if I want to get into this.

• 59:28Steven Rinella?

  It's like really divisive is, uh, how much fur shit is too much?

• 59:35Steven Rinella?

  Like, you know, like you saying, like, when you do a little, like, you put some bear claws around your hat band, or you got like a bear claw necklace.

• 59:43Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 59:43Steven Rinella?

  You got like a fur hat.

• 59:44Speaker 05

  Our buddy Dan Gates pushes the envelope. You know who I'm, yeah, from Colorado.

• 59:52Steven Rinella?

  He'd be a great person to have on the debate.

• 59:54Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, because I don't, he, he has a giant wardrobe. According to what I see on Instagram, are you guys familiar?

• 1:00:02Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean.

• 1:00:03Steven Rinella?

  Old timey, yeah.

• 1:00:04Speaker 05

  Every time he's addressing a, a topic. I mean, there's a new vest or, you know, some sort of new accoutrement to his wardrobe that is, you know, fur. Or like you said, there's a lot of claws, horns.

• 1:00:18Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:19Speaker 05

  Antlers.

• 1:00:19Steven Rinella?

  It's a real, um. I think it's, it depends on the person too, man. Listen, we're not, yeah, you're right. You go to the Bozeman Airport, you're like, that person shouldn't. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Yeah, we're, we're, we'll dive into it bad. We'll dive into it bad, what's too much?

• 1:00:37Speaker 05

  Um. Any just quick thoughts, Michael?

• 1:00:40Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, you want to just touch that, because you won't be here when we actually dive into it.

• 1:00:42Speaker 04

  You know, I, I just from listening to, to your friend there, I, I think I need more, you know?

• 1:00:47Speaker 05

  You need more?

• 1:00:48Speaker 04

  In your own personal.

• 1:00:49Speaker 05

  Do you wear any furs?

• 1:00:51Speaker 04

  I will, I will put a feather in my hat when I'm turkey hunting or something, or, uh, you know, I like to collect the odd pheasant feather. Um, I too have a musk ox hide that I'm, uh, wondering what to do with.

• 1:01:05Steven Rinella?

  You don't wear it, though.

• 1:01:06Speaker 04

  No, I don't wear it, but it would, that would make a cool.

• 1:01:08Steven Rinella?

  Oh, it would.

• 1:01:08Speaker 05

  I would suggest harvesting the, what was it? Kivvy, kivvy.

• 1:01:13Steven Rinella?

  Kivvy.

• 1:01:13Speaker 05

  Kivvy it?

• 1:01:14Speaker 04

  The wool?

• 1:01:14Steven Rinella?

  The wool.

• 1:01:15Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:01:15Steven Rinella?

  I still might.

• 1:01:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, please, I hope I, I'm still on the list of people that might receive a beanie out of it.

• 1:01:21Steven Rinella?

  Phil, can you aim a camera at that musk ox hide?

• 1:01:25Speaker 07

  No.

• 1:01:25Steven Rinella?

  No. Can I?

• 1:01:27Speaker 07

  Sure, you want to, sure, this is, this, this should be fun.

• 1:01:32Steven Rinella?

  Brody will do it. You gotta lose to something.

• 1:01:35Speaker 07

  No, don't even worry about, I just, I just want to see you figure it out.

• 1:01:38Speaker 04

  That's the up and down one.

• 1:01:40Speaker 07

  Here we go.

• 1:01:42Speaker 05

  Is that it, Bill?

• 1:01:43Speaker 04

  No, there you go.

• 1:01:44Speaker 05

  You got it.

• 1:01:45Steven Rinella?

  Now, Yanni, grab a little kivviet off that sucker. Well, now that Brody's got a camera on it.

• 1:01:50Speaker 04

  While we're doing this, you had mentioned earlier in the show about animals people don't want to eat, but they shoot.

• 1:01:55Steven Rinella?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:01:55Speaker 04

  When I was in the Arctic.

• 1:01:57Steven Rinella?

  Before the show.

• 1:01:58Speaker 04

  Oh, it was before the show?

• 1:01:58Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:59Speaker 04

  Sorry to the listeners for confusing people. But what I found interesting was when I shot mine in the Arctic, the locals, it was, there was four guys, we shot four musk ox. We couldn't possibly bring all of it home. We brought home about 800 pounds of meat. But the locals didn't, a lot of the locals didn't want it.

• 1:02:16Steven Rinella?

  What?

• 1:02:17Speaker 04

  Their primary, and a lot of them really need food, they want caribou. Like, that is their main source of protein.

• 1:02:24Steven Rinella?

  That's weird, because on Nunavak Island.

• 1:02:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:27Steven Rinella?

  Um, it's very popular.

• 1:02:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, so I was in Baker Lake.

• 1:02:30Steven Rinella?

  They actually brought it out there as a food source.

• 1:02:32Speaker 04

  So where I was hunting in Baker Lake is the only inland community in Nunavak. All the other communities are coastal, and caribou is like their bread and butter.

• 1:02:41Steven Rinella?

  Oh, did I say, I said, I'm sorry, Nunavak.

• 1:02:43Speaker 04

  Oh, Nunavak.

• 1:02:44Steven Rinella?

  Bearing, yeah. Nunavak Island in the Bering Sea.

• 1:02:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:47Steven Rinella?

  With the, with the chupac Eskimo musk ox is very popular.

• 1:02:50Speaker 04

  Yeah. Anyway, I just thought that was interesting, because a lot of people are not necessarily starving, but they're in need of food, a lot of them, but, yeah.

• 1:02:59Speaker 05

  My, my kid wore that musk ox head for Halloween one time. He gave it to me.

• 1:03:04Steven Rinella?

  I remember that.

• 1:03:04Speaker 04

  That's cool.

• 1:03:05Steven Rinella?

  So we'll do a whole big, we'll do a whole big thing on what's enough, what's too much, what's enough. Um, okay, clear cut, Yanni.

• 1:03:18Speaker 04

  So that wool, you just pulled the wool off the musk ox hide.

• 1:03:21Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:22Speaker 04

  You can actually harvest wool and make stuff with it.

• 1:03:24Speaker 05

  Well, and supposedly, it's the warmest, like, it beats out cashmere, merino.

• 1:03:30Speaker 04

  I bet.

• 1:03:30Speaker 05

  Uh, there's, there's nothing else, like, I mean, think about where that animal lives. And, uh, yeah, it's, but it's hard to harvest, if I remember correctly. Like, it, it, it takes a, I forget, there was something that made it a little bit prohibitive, um, to do stuff with it.

• 1:03:47Steven Rinella?

  They don't have domestic.

• 1:03:49Speaker 05

  Do they have?

• 1:03:50Steven Rinella?

  There, there wasn't, no.

• 1:03:52Speaker 05

  I want to say a lot of times they harvested it just in the springtime by plucking it off of bushes where when they shed it.

• 1:03:59Speaker 04

  Mountain goat.

• 1:04:00Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, people, yeah, no, people would go out and just collect it. Off when they're shedding in the spring. Um, okay, one of the things, Michael, that we're gonna get into is, uh, I was trying to challenge you on something that Brody found out you were right.

• 1:04:15Speaker 04

  Okay, alright, I like this.

• 1:04:18Steven Rinella?

  Like, did Canada have wild turkeys historically?

• 1:04:24Speaker 04

  Historically, we were told in our, our hunting course that yes, on, uh, where, at least where I grew up and the, the hunting licenses are done by the province. So we had to take a hunting course and we had to specifically take a turkey hunting course where they gave us history about the wild turkey that Ontario in fact had a native population of turkeys. They were extinct due to market hunting in the 1800s.

• 1:04:46Steven Rinella?

  Got it.

• 1:04:47Speaker 04

  And they were brought back, I believe, in the 1980s, 70s, 80s.

• 1:04:50Speaker 05

  1984.

• 1:04:52Speaker 04

  There you go.

• 1:04:52Speaker 05

  Uh, 274 wild turkeys from various US states.

• 1:04:56Speaker 04

  And did we, we traded, uh, do we trade moose to a state for that?

• 1:05:00Speaker 05

  Otters, partridge, geese and moose.

• 1:05:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:05:02Steven Rinella?

  That's a good trade.

• 1:05:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:05:03Speaker 05

  I love it.

• 1:05:03Speaker 04

  It's a cool trade. And now the wild turkey population in Canada is like, in Ontario anyway, is absolutely flourishing. Like.

• 1:05:09Steven Rinella?

  Is it hard to get permissions?

• 1:05:13Speaker 04

  I, I would say yes and no. It kind of depends, like, I grew up in a rural community, so I've got a lot of contacts and family friends and stuff that let me run around on their farms. Um, I think for like an average, you know, city person that's interested in hunting and wants to get their license, I think it's harder for them. Um, you know, I take, you know, when my son was smaller, I would just take my kids to farmers' doors and knock on the door and say, I want to take my kid hunting and.

• 1:05:37Steven Rinella?

  Oh, dude, yeah, melts their heart, man.

• 1:05:39Speaker 04

  Totally melts their heart. Now my son is six foot three.

• 1:05:41Steven Rinella?

  When it comes to permissions, man, you gotta get yourself, yeah, I wouldn't be bringing him anymore.

• 1:05:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, now he's scary looking now.

• 1:05:46Steven Rinella?

  Get yourself some kids, even if you gotta borrow them.

• 1:05:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, little nephews or something.

• 1:05:50Steven Rinella?

  Borrow, yeah. Keep, knock on the door, knock on the door.

• 1:05:54Steven Rinella?

  Be real friendly, act cute.

• 1:05:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, but yeah, no, it, and. I don't know the the laws, but there's some provinces where it's actually illegal to lease your land for hunting. Whereas I know in the States, it's really, you know, everybody's got a hunting lease somewhere. Um, like Saskatchewan, I know, I think it's illegal to lease your land specifically for hunting.

• 1:06:14Steven Rinella?

  Uh, you know, however, one feels about that personally, how does, how do you like?

• 1:06:20Steven Rinella?

  What is the, I know you're not like a policy expert on the issue, but how do you argue that? Like, what is the argument? Like, how do you even tell the landowner that? Like, what the hell?

• 1:06:28Speaker 04

  I have no idea. I have no idea.

• 1:06:29Steven Rinella?

  I mean,

• 1:06:30Speaker 04

  Like, how would you enforce that?

• 1:06:31Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, like, well, I'm just saying, like, regardless of how um, you might personally feel about, you know, however you might personally feel about leasing, not leasing, paying your own money lease, whatever, wishing it was the good old days where you just hunted on everybody's place and never even asked. Uh, however you feel about all that, I just can't picture crafting legislation.

• 1:06:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:06:53Steven Rinella?

  That would tell a landowner, you cannot lease hunting rights on your land. It's like, it kind of like, well,

• 1:06:58Speaker 05

  That's like saying you can't.

• 1:07:00Steven Rinella?

  What's it to you?

• 1:07:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's like saying you can't raise cattle or grow hay.

• 1:07:05Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:06Speaker 05

  You can't make money off your land.

• 1:07:07Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, you can't lease farming rights on your land. Be like, why?

• 1:07:10Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, there's more government overreach.

• 1:07:13Steven Rinella?

  Well, no, it just seems like it'd be a hard one to like, a hard one to sell people on.

• 1:07:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:17Steven Rinella?

  Because it's, it's not a, there's no sort of like, there's no impact on neighboring properties.

• 1:07:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:24Steven Rinella?

  You know, it's not like you dumping hog shit into the river and acting like it's not your problem anymore.

• 1:07:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:29Steven Rinella?

  Right? It's just, it's not, it doesn't like bleed over onto your neighbors. It doesn't have, it doesn't impact anybody.

• 1:07:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:35Steven Rinella?

  It just seems like it'd be your call.

• 1:07:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure how it works. Cause in, in Ontario, I don't think it's the case, but other provinces I've heard that it is.

• 1:07:42Speaker 05

  What's the public land situation up there?

• 1:07:45Speaker 04

  Public land, uh, we call it crown land. Uh, there's tons of it and hunting's generally pretty, you know, pretty good depending where you're going. Um, and I think the, some of the bylaws, like there's, I guess it depends if you're close to, you know, provincial or federal parks, like there's certain parks that there's no hunting in the parks, but the, uh, the crown lands, I think it's open. You're allowed to camp on them for. You know, you have to move your structure every three weeks, like if you're going for a big trip or something, but um it's it's pretty well just free rein.

• 1:08:16Steven Rinella?

  Can you guys find turks on public land where you're at?

• 1:08:18Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:08:19Steven Rinella?

  Really?

• 1:08:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, and there's, there's, there's public land, but it's like municipal public land. So not far from where I live. You know, an hour and a half from Toronto, uh, you can hunt, and I think they call them like they're county forests. And they're, they're municipal lands, and I don't know if they've been donated or what they are, but there's hiking trails, there's quad trails, snowmobile trails, whatever. Uh, and then they'll say like, yes to hunting or no to hunting.

• 1:08:43Steven Rinella?

  And there's some turks out on that stuff.

• 1:08:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, I've shot turkeys on public land.

• 1:08:46Steven Rinella?

  Oh.

• 1:08:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:08:47Speaker 05

  How many turkeys can you kill in a season?

• 1:08:49Speaker 04

  We have two per spring, two male bearded birds per spring, and they opened up a fall season, which I don't have time for.

• 1:08:58Steven Rinella?

  Can you guys shoot, uh, yeah, you know what?

• 1:09:00Speaker 04

  I don't.

• 1:09:01Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:01Speaker 04

  And in the fall, you can shoot hens. And again, it's like I, you know, they're way, they're half the size of a tom and it's deer season. Like, why, you know, if one happened to walk by my deer stand, but the season's super short. It's like two weeks or something and the likelihood, anyway.

• 1:09:15Steven Rinella?

  I've, I've never been able to get, I've never, well, I'll tell you this, like, I do a lot of turkey hunting. Um, I love turkey hunting.

• 1:09:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:09:23Steven Rinella?

  I have never, because I missed, I have never killed a turkey in the fall.

• 1:09:32Steven Rinella?

  I shot one bullet. I shot one thirty ought six round at a turkey's head about ninety yards away and missed. And now it's as close. So now I can sit back and say, I've never killed a fall turkey.

• 1:09:44Speaker 04

  Yeah. I tried to draw.

• 1:09:46Steven Rinella?

  On accident.

• 1:09:46Speaker 04

  I tried to draw my bow on a pair that were walking by my tree stand. And the moment I even moved, like, they took off. And I was like, how do you even do this in the fall?

• 1:09:57Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:57Speaker 04

  So.

• 1:09:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's pretty, I had a similar experience. I wasn't gonna draw on them, but I had a, a little flock coming to me and I was up in the tree.

• 1:10:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:10:04Speaker 05

  I thought I'm, I was pretty high up, thought I was pretty well concealed. I was, had the tree between me and the turkeys.

• 1:10:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:10:10Speaker 05

  And before I moved, I let him get to probably twenty.

• 1:10:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:10:13Speaker 05

  And the moment I like, I was just going for my phone and whatever that was, just that little bit of elbow movement, I saw a hen go.

• 1:10:22Speaker 05

  Give me one of those and then the whole flock just turned and it didn't run, but it's they're like eh? Don't know what that was in that tree, but we're not messing around with it.

• 1:10:31Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:31Speaker 05

  Keep walking.

• 1:10:32Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I don't, yeah, I'm just not into it.

• 1:10:34Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:10:35Steven Rinella?

  Mike, Mike kills my kid. He thinks we should be like big time fall turkey hunters.

• 1:10:38Speaker 04

  And I've, I've, again, I've never done it, but I've heard that, you know, you need to find a flock, spook them so they disperse and then you try and call the flock back.

• 1:10:45Steven Rinella?

  They make a dog for that.

• 1:10:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:10:47Steven Rinella?

  I got buddies that use a dog.

• 1:10:48Speaker 05

  That's how we did it when I was a kid in the fall.

• 1:10:51Speaker 04

  And it's different calls, right? Like it's not, you're not necessarily yelping.

• 1:10:54Speaker 05

  And a lot of times you don't even have to call. They're just gonna come back.

• 1:10:56Steven Rinella?

  Like, there's like, there's like a grouping call, kiki, but the reason those boys use dogs for it, is you can't run fast enough to scatter.

• 1:11:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:11:05Steven Rinella?

  Cause what you're trying to do is you're trying to throw the flock into such disarray that they lose track of one another.

• 1:11:12Speaker 04

  Gotcha.

• 1:11:13Steven Rinella?

  So if you go running after them, they just run off like a group and they're like.

• 1:11:15Speaker 04

  In a trail.

• 1:11:16Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, they're like, what's this annoying ass dude? But if you send a dog to go slipping in there raising hell, he might succeed in getting them to lose track of each other.

• 1:11:24Speaker 04

  Gotcha.

• 1:11:25Steven Rinella?

  I've never done this. I would like to see it, but I've never done it.

• 1:11:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:11:28Steven Rinella?

  But just my understanding of it and then you beee wee wee, beee wee wee. And they hopefully, you know, draw back in. I know a guy that used to kill Huns like that. That was his Hun strategy. He would, when he kicked a flock of Huns, he, cause they'll always scatter.

• 1:11:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:11:44Steven Rinella?

  He would kinda like watch them land and figure out what he thought was the center. And I don't even know what call he did. He would do a mouth call. He would go to what he thought was the kind of center and sit there and call.

• 1:11:56Speaker 04

  Hmm, that's cool.

• 1:11:58Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. And shoot them coming back in. How far, uh, you, you, do you, do you live an hour and a half out of Toronto?

• 1:12:05Speaker 04

  No, I'm, I'm right in the city. So, um, my restaurant is about, uh, 25 minutes from my house. But I live on like kinda the northern side of the city and I'm close to all the highways. So I'm pretty mo- mobile for. Getting out of the city quick.

• 1:12:20Steven Rinella?

  How's your restaurant doing?

• 1:12:21Speaker 04

  It's doing great. We've been around for nine years now, Antler Restaurant. And yeah, we're just trying to figure out how to grow. You know, we've been there, we're coming up on a decade. And, you know, we're thinking about either a big renovation, you know, possibly expanding the space. We're just trying to figure all that out.

• 1:12:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, the last time you were here, your restaurant, you were, you were real worried about the COVID thing.

• 1:12:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, COVID really hurt us for, for a while and a lot of businesses and a lot of businesses closed. So, you know, we're very fortunate and lucky. We had a really good community around us that supported us. And, you know, people like what we're doing and we've got really great team behind us as well, staff wise. So, yeah, it's, it's good.

• 1:13:01Steven Rinella?

  How often are you there?

• 1:13:03Speaker 04

  I'm there during the week. I try not to work weekends anymore. I want to see my family. So, I'm there during the week. And then we've got a really great general manager and a head chef now that kind of run it.

• 1:13:17Steven Rinella?

  Tell me, tell me what's on the menu right now.

• 1:13:19Speaker 04

  We have deer, duck, bison, wild boar.

• 1:13:26Speaker 04

  Our fish is kind of generally rotating for like what's in season. So we'll do like halibut, you know, salmon when it's running. We get walleye from Lake Erie.

• 1:13:38Speaker 04

  We get swordfish from the east coast. Sometimes it's really cool. Scallops, we get little Canadian, like kind of northern shrimp. We do spot prawns and stuff in the, in the spring. So it'll be coming up, but.

• 1:13:51Steven Rinella?

  Where's the wild hog from? Can you bring it in from Texas or no?

• 1:13:55Speaker 04

  I don't know. We, so there's a farm that's been doing, I think they actually just, there's some legislation that's closing down the wild hog farms. It was like a European hog they brought over.

• 1:14:06Steven Rinella?

  Oh, so it's like a, it's like a domestic hog, but a, but a.

• 1:14:09Speaker 05

  Those Canadian super hogs, they're worried about coming into Montana.

• 1:14:13Speaker 04

  Yeah. So they actually, I think they've actually started closing these wild boar farms in Ontario because there's been, there's been sightings now.

• 1:14:21Steven Rinella?

  So it's wild boar, but it's, it's domestic.

• 1:14:24Speaker 04

  Domesticated.

• 1:14:25Steven Rinella?

  Like this sort of ancestral sous scrofa.

• 1:14:27Speaker 04

  Yeah. And I think they're, you know, they're black, long hair type pigs with tusks. Whereas, you know, just the farm raised pigs are pink hairless things.

• 1:14:35Steven Rinella?

  You know, man, we, we a long time ago had a dude on AFIS guy, that's our, we have a federal agency that does.

• 1:14:45Steven Rinella?

  They do a lot of stuff with non-native species and whatnot, uh, wildlife control services.

• 1:14:50Speaker 04

  What else?

• 1:14:50Steven Rinella?

  APIS, animal plant, it's a, it's a division of like the animal, plant and hel- health. Animal, plant and health inspection service.

• 1:14:58Speaker 04

  Cool.

• 1:14:59Steven Rinella?

  But they run extirpation campaigns on invasive species as well.

• 1:15:06Steven Rinella?

  We were talking to him about hogs.

• 1:15:09Steven Rinella?

  And it was like,

• 1:15:11Steven Rinella?

  where could hogs be? If you, if you just take the US and I'm sure, guarantee it's true with Canada. Where could they be? Um, they would be fine everywhere.

• 1:15:21Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:15:23Steven Rinella?

  Cause you gotta go look like, look at the habitat they're in Siberia.

• 1:15:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:15:27Steven Rinella?

  They're, they're, they're waiting around in snow up to their brisket.

• 1:15:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:15:30Steven Rinella?

  No problem. And it was like, where they are and are not is more a factor of where can you find them and kill them?

• 1:15:38Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:15:39Steven Rinella?

  And it's in like open country, like around here, it's just easier, you'd, it'd be easier to go find them and kill them.

• 1:15:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:15:45Steven Rinella?

  And it's like where they survive is places where it's hard to find them and kill them.

• 1:15:50Speaker 05

  Or they've become accepted.

• 1:15:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:15:52Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, become accepted as well, yeah.

• 1:15:54Speaker 05

  Cause it's, you know, California is such a weird deal, right? Like.

• 1:15:59Steven Rinella?

  They treat them like a game animal.

• 1:16:00Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:16:01Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. But they just don't have this, the ho- they don't have quite the hordes like they get down in Texas, you know, it's just different. Like hunting pigs in California, you almost get a little excited when you see one, it can be hard.

• 1:16:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:16:15Speaker 04

  And you were saying last night, you do quite a bit of pig hunting. I, I've absolutely gone crazy, I'm addicted to that. That night hunting with the thermal, you're sneaking around the woods with an AR-15 and thermal, it is like amazing.

• 1:16:26Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, but don't, don't you just wind up, wind up with like, you just wind up with like a lot of hogs?

• 1:16:30Speaker 04

  You can, yeah, you definitely can.

• 1:16:32Steven Rinella?

  You just sort through them and pick the ones you like, or what do you do?

• 1:16:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, so, sort of like the, the gigantic ones that really stink, you know, those will kind of go off to the side and, and you know, a nice kind of medium sized sow or the smaller piglets, they're incredible eating.

• 1:16:45Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 1:16:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:16:46Steven Rinella?

  So how, when you're getting a bunch, how do you deal with them? You can't not, and also you're going down to Texas, right?

• 1:16:50Speaker 04

  I'm in Mississippi.

• 1:16:52Steven Rinella?

  You hunt in Mississippi?

• 1:16:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, and they've got a huge problem with them and it's, um, the guy that I go with, he donates a lot to some of the community. Um, I know they, they can drop them off at the penitentiary, the federal prison or whatever, and, or the state prison, they drop them off there.

• 1:17:05Steven Rinella?

  That'd be a good place to go to prison.

• 1:17:06Speaker 04

  Yeah. So yeah, they, you know, the ones that we don't want, they do get put to use. But yeah, I, I love the meat, you know, it's just a totally different style of hunting for me.

• 1:17:18Speaker 04

  You know, this, the thermal thing is sort of like a video game almost.

• 1:17:21Speaker 05

  Are you able to fly home with that meat?

• 1:17:24Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah. I just have to declare it at customs. You know, you look on the, I think it's the CBSA website, Canadian Border Services or something. And it's got everything listed. You can carry more driving. There's really no weight restriction, flying. They put a weight restriction, which is odd, but I've never had to weigh anything. I just declare it and they usually say, where were you? What were you hunting? And okay, see you later. So, yeah. And I freeze it and just put it in a suitcase wrapped in a hunting jacket and it stays frozen. Which is cool.

• 1:17:53Steven Rinella?

  How often do you go do that?

• 1:17:56Speaker 04

  I'm there pretty much quarterly. Doing it.

• 1:18:00Steven Rinella?

  Quarterly?

• 1:18:03Speaker 04

  I try to get there every couple of months, you know? I love it. I love it down there. Yeah. I like this so.

• 1:18:10Steven Rinella?

  I'll tell you one thing that binds together all of the vehicles in the Rinella fleet at my house. They all have WeatherTech floor liners. When we get a new car, the first thing we do, out with the junky factory carpet mats, in with WeatherTech. They really are the best. They're indestructible. You can pull them out, hose them off. It doesn't matter what happens on the floor of your rig. If you've got WeatherTech, you're going to be covered. I love these things. If you're looking to get a great gift for someone, especially if they're a big time outdoors kind of person, like if you really want to do them a favor, get them some WeatherTech floor liners for their truck or car. They'll have a way easier time keeping their rig nice and clean and they'll get years and years of use out of a set.

• 1:18:55Steven Rinella?

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• 1:19:01Steven Rinella?

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• 1:19:32Speaker 02

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• 1:19:47Steven Rinella?

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• 1:20:27Steven Rinella?

  That's O-K-E-E-F-F-E-S company.com for guaranteed relief. O'Keefe's Working Hands, it works good. When you guys sell deer in your restaurant, you're buying it from New Zealand or something?

• 1:20:41Speaker 04

  No, we have, there's a lot of local farms. You can, it's actually cheaper from New Zealand, which bugs me. But yeah, we use a, there's a couple of local guys that farm in the red stag species, yeah. And he's, the cool thing about the game farms is there's like smaller, family-run type deals, so you can kinda get to know the farmer, and tour the farm, and meet the, meet the family. It's neat. Talk about what they feed them, and their habitat, and it's cool, yeah.

• 1:21:11Steven Rinella?

  I don't, I'm wondering if you see that, do you, do those guys sell product in America?

• 1:21:16Speaker 04

  That I don't know. I think it's a lot harder uh for them. You know, I know the cattle uh goes across the border, but I don't know about the game species.

• 1:21:25Steven Rinella?

  Hmm. So when you go buy it from them, how do you buy it? Like, what's it show up to you like?

• 1:21:29Speaker 04

  We buy it quartered. Like, we buy whole quartered.

• 1:21:33Steven Rinella?

  Do you pick what quarter you want?

• 1:21:34Speaker 04

  No, we take the whole thing. We have to buy a whole animal at a time.

• 1:21:36Steven Rinella?

  Oh, you do?

• 1:21:36Speaker 04

  And then, yeah, we get it. We uh, you know, he just does a solid quarter. We used to get it whole. And then he asked me, what are you guys doing with this? And I said, I told him, oh, we just break it down with a hacksaw. And then he said, well, just get a sawzall. And I'm like, I'm an idiot. Why? I've been doing this for like three years with a hacksaw. And then the sawzall just cut our time and, you know, by a fraction. And then he was like, well, I can just quarter it for you. Like, after five years.

• 1:21:59Steven Rinella?

  Even quicker now?

• 1:22:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, so now I'm like, okay, like, I didn't know that was an option, but uh.

• 1:22:03Steven Rinella?

  So he goes out, like, is he able to go out? He just goes out and shoots the thing?

• 1:22:07Speaker 04

  No, he has to actually get it onto a trailer and take it to a slaughterhouse. Alive.

• 1:22:14Steven Rinella?

  So he saws the antlers off it?

• 1:22:17Speaker 04

  Um, I haven't actually asked about that. He, I know he sells antlers. If you want antler-specific stuff, he'll sell you antler.

• 1:22:26Speaker 04

  But yeah, I think he asked.

• 1:22:27Steven Rinella?

  I can't picture that you can transport them with the antlers on them.

• 1:22:29Speaker 04

  I have no idea how that works. I I'll ask him.

• 1:22:31Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 1:22:32Speaker 04

  I've never asked that question.

• 1:22:33Steven Rinella?

  And it's red deer?

• 1:22:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:22:34Speaker 05

  But there's like a legal governmental process for getting them.

• 1:22:38Speaker 04

  He has to get it onto a trailer alive to a slaughterhouse. Yeah. And there's been times where he's called me and said, hey, I gotta come, you know, I can't come this week. I gotta come next week because I couldn't catch them. So he has to wait till they get into like, he's got like a thousand acres or something.

• 1:22:55Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:55Speaker 04

  And, you know, when they're in the barnyard, he can kind of shut a gate and corral them onto a trailer. But there's been times where he's like, I think during mating season in the early summer, spring, he can't actually catch them or something. So there's been times like in July, he's like, yeah, they're mating or something. I can't, I can't get one for you this week.

• 1:23:12Steven Rinella?

  So you order like one?

• 1:23:14Speaker 04

  Uh, we usually get two, yeah, one or two. And then, um, uh, the last couple of years, we've actually been buying like thirty at a time. There's a, a friend of mine that does a call with like a, a, another game farm. Um, and he's been calling animals and they actually shoot them. They had a veterinarian on site.

• 1:23:34Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 1:23:34Speaker 04

  That inspected the heart and liver. Uh, and then the brains were sent for a CWD. And then once everything was cleared, it went to a butcher shop and got stamped, got the.

• 1:23:43Steven Rinella?

  So they check them for a CWD?

• 1:23:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:23:45Steven Rinella?

  You know what a weird deal? I know this isn't with you guys, but someone sent me these, I was looking at these exchanges the other day. And, um, the deer farmers here, the deer breeders here, not meat guys, but like antler guys.

• 1:23:59Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:23:59Steven Rinella?

  They're trying to.

• 1:24:03Steven Rinella?

  They're trying to use this political climate here.

• 1:24:09Steven Rinella?

  To try to get like the Doge boys to. Kill CWD research because they're sick of hearing about it.

• 1:24:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:24:17Steven Rinella?

  They don't want them researching it.

• 1:24:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's a bummer. That sucks.

• 1:24:21Steven Rinella?

  So they're trying to say like, hey, while you're throwing out all kinds of conservation work, throw that out too.

• 1:24:25Speaker 04

  Yeah. That's unfortunate.

• 1:24:27Steven Rinella?

  Cause they don't even want to talk about it.

• 1:24:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:24:29Steven Rinella?

  So you know what it's going to mean for them?

• 1:24:30Speaker 04

  There was a game farm in Quebec, uh, one of the largest in the coun- countries that got completely shut down and had to kill all their, their entire herd. Because of CWD.

• 1:24:41Speaker 04

  And they were, just the risk of it getting out into the wild.

• 1:24:43Speaker 05

  Do people ever ask about it in the restaurant?

• 1:24:45Speaker 04

  Never.

• 1:24:46Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:24:46Speaker 04

  Not one customer has ever.

• 1:24:47Speaker 07

  It's probably not on their radar at all.

• 1:24:49Steven Rinella?

  That, that's the thing I wonder about, man, is like.

• 1:24:53Steven Rinella?

  With.

• 1:24:57Steven Rinella?

  There are, I, I, I'm pretty sure I heard this. There are some food banks that aren't accepting.

• 1:25:03Speaker 04

  Oh, game meat.

• 1:25:04Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. And then also there's this.

• 1:25:07Steven Rinella?

  There was, there was a processor that used to process for food banks. I believe in Wisconsin, there was a guy in Wisconsin that would process for food banks.

• 1:25:17Speaker 04

  Or Michigan, maybe.

• 1:25:18Steven Rinella?

  Was it, yeah, you know what?

• 1:25:19Speaker 04

  From the email, yeah.

• 1:25:20Steven Rinella?

  It was Michigan. There's a processor that you could like dudes that like to shoot deer, but they don't know, they don't know how to cook or they're squeamish and they won't eat it. They would go and shoot deer, but then they don't know what to do with it. So they always want to donate it.

• 1:25:34Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:25:34Steven Rinella?

  You know? So. You know, because their kids are like, I want butter doodles. So. Um. But this processor. It's like I can't, he can't have it in there anymore.

• 1:25:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:25:48Steven Rinella?

  He can't have it in his plant because of CWD. So I wonder if. If as we get more CWD spreading around more. I always wonder, is that gonna? Put an end to. Being able to supply food banks and charitable organizations with deer meat.

• 1:26:04Speaker 04

  I know they changed a bunch of laws where I am as well, where, you know, any butcher could take. Game from a hunter and butcher it for them, you know, in charge for it. And that now a lot of them have shut down because of new rules and regulations. They've got to clear out all of their, you know, farmed meat. Wash everything down like walls, ceilings, floors, give everything a wash.

• 1:26:22Steven Rinella?

  Yep.

• 1:26:23Speaker 04

  Then butcher the game, then wash everything again. And then they're allowed to bring in, you know, farm raised products again. So a lot of the processors just say, no, they don't do it anymore.

• 1:26:30Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I, I just get a little bit worried about. Um. I get a little bit worried about. What that? If, if people, if places stop accepting it.

• 1:26:41Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:26:42Steven Rinella?

  If people stop accepting it, I don't think, you know, you know. We're not in a position where we're gonna, we're not gonna be able to, we're not in a position to kill less deer. They're trying to get people to kill more deer in a lot of suburban areas.

• 1:26:53Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:26:53Steven Rinella?

  So it's like, if they stop accepting it, I just think it's just be more shit winds up in the ditch.

• 1:26:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, because people aren't, there's just a lot of people will never process their own animal. They just won't do it.

• 1:27:03Steven Rinella?

  No, they're not gonna do it. And like everything they shoot goes in that. And then.

• 1:27:07Speaker 04

  Donation.

• 1:27:07Steven Rinella?

  If, if people don't want to accept it.

• 1:27:11Steven Rinella?

  What's gonna happen? And then here's another thing that's like, there's this new, this idea that never goes away is like that we should, we should begin, we should go back to the days of selling wild deer.

• 1:27:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:27:25Steven Rinella?

  And with CWD every year being in more and more and more counties, I don't even know if that's like a great business plan because once you have, once you have, um, in these areas where they're wanting, or pushing to sell deer, particularly like in the eastern US. If there's CWD infection there, 5%, 10%, it gets as high as 50% in some places. Um,

• 1:27:53Steven Rinella?

  I don't know how much that shit you're gonna be pushing down at the farmer's market.

• 1:27:56Speaker 04

  Yeah. Have they?

• 1:27:57Steven Rinella?

  People will be like, what now?

• 1:27:58Speaker 04

  Have they linked CWD to humans yet?

• 1:28:01Steven Rinella?

  Never, never. I hope they never will.

• 1:28:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:28:05Steven Rinella?

  Like, no, no one's ever gotten it. I mean, hunters in America, dude, not just hunters in America. I said this one time to a CWD researcher and they're like, no, that's not true. And I'm like, it's true, dude. I was like, hundreds of thousands of Americans have eaten CWD infected meat.

• 1:28:21Speaker 04

  Probably.

• 1:28:22Steven Rinella?

  Definitely.

• 1:28:22Speaker 04

  I would think so.

• 1:28:23Steven Rinella?

  Dude, once she said no, and I, I was like, maybe she's right. And I thought about it for a minute. And then I thought about it for a while longer. I'm like, dude, hundreds of thousands of people have eaten CWD infected meat. No one. No one.

• 1:28:38Speaker 04

  Well.

• 1:28:38Steven Rinella?

  But there's this like, there's, there's, there's risk, meaning mad cow, like, you know, mad cow has jumped. Um, am I wrong about that? No, like it's.

• 1:28:54Speaker 04

  No, for sure.

• 1:28:55Steven Rinella?

  So the mad cow, like it becomes like Yakub, you know, Creutzfeldt, yeah, Creutzfeldt Yakub disease.

• 1:29:01Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 1:29:02Steven Rinella?

  Um.

• 1:29:04Steven Rinella?

  Preon diseases have moved across the barrier. This one has not. Okay. But there's also, but what I'm talking about is just a perception issue. Like picture that they in the east or wherever, where you're at, whatever. They start saying, hey, we're going to go back to the days of shooting whitetail deer and selling the meat in the markets. And then you are a anti-hunting organization. And you start saying, well, you know, there's like a preon disease that is in that herd at prevalence rates of five, 10, 15%.

• 1:29:39Steven Rinella?

  How much of that shit you gonna be selling?

• 1:29:40Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:29:43Steven Rinella?

  So. No, no one's gotten it. This is the thing we discuss all the time.

• 1:29:49Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:29:49Steven Rinella?

  Is, uh, there's two ways I look at it be like.

• 1:29:55Steven Rinella?

  I believe a person that says CWD is not a problem. There's like a litmus test.

• 1:30:02Steven Rinella?

  That I've devised, but I haven't done yet, but I'm, I need to. I'm going to get a bunch of CWD meat from my friends in Wisconsin. I'm going to be like, I want. Meat from all your positives. Okay, you give me, I want 10, I want meat from 10 positives. My buddy, Pat Durkin, got a positive doe this year. I should have said, send me a pound. I'm going to make, I'm going to get all this CWD positive meat and I'm going to make burgers with it.

• 1:30:30Steven Rinella?

  So it's all known positives.

• 1:30:32Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 1:30:32Steven Rinella?

  And I'm going to make burgers. And then when I get someone who tells me CWD is nothing to worry about. And they should cut research funding for CWD. I'm going to make them up that patty.

• 1:30:42Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 1:30:43Steven Rinella?

  Lettuce, pickles, tomatoes, however you want it. And I'm going to be like, eat that burger.

• 1:30:48Speaker 07

  Serve it to your, serve it to your kids.

• 1:30:50Steven Rinella?

  Yep, eat that burger and then come tell me, eat that burger and come tell me about it. If you eat that burger, I'll believe everything you say.

• 1:30:57Speaker 05

  There will be some people that will gladly eat it.

• 1:31:00Steven Rinella?

  And I'll gladly talk to them. I'll gladly talk to them.

• 1:31:04Speaker 06

  Meanwhile, we're all going to be like carrying bleach and fricking.

• 1:31:07Steven Rinella?

  No. No, I don't think that, I think that that's too, I think.

• 1:31:11Speaker 06

  I don't want it in the podcast room.

• 1:31:13Steven Rinella?

  No. But you're falling, you're doing the other thing. You're doing the other, like, everything has its extreme.

• 1:31:19Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:31:20Steven Rinella?

  So on, on one extreme, you got like, it doesn't matter. No one should pay attention to CWD. The other extreme is like, if a deer was CWD, uh, so much as looks at your stainless steel counter, your stainless steel counter will forever be infected with CWD. And it's like, can we remind everyone that no one's gotten it from eating the shit yet? And now we're talking about your stainless steel counter? Giving you CWD? You can't even get it from eating the meat.

• 1:31:46Speaker 04

  Like in Ontario where I live, I don't even think there's a resource where I could send, uh, my animal to. Oh, there's not like testing. I don't think so. Whereas like in, you know, I don't know if it's every state or, you know, half the states where you can send in your, like you said, your friend in Wisconsin.

• 1:32:01Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Well, that's what they're trying to do. They're trying to like shut the whole conversation down.

• 1:32:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:32:05Steven Rinella?

  And, and I'm like, hey, man, I don't know. No one's gotten it. I hope no one ever gets it. I don't want anyone to get it. I think, I think we should be investing heavily in research.

• 1:32:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:32:14Steven Rinella?

  To understand, is it like, to understand everything there is about it? Because you're gonna kill, I think that if, if, heaven forbid, dude, heaven forbid, if you somehow, like had some hunters, whatever, heaven forbid, it would, it would destroy deer hunting.

• 1:32:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:32:35Steven Rinella?

  Not, it would put up, not destroy, it would really hurt.

• 1:32:39Speaker 04

  It would shake it up.

• 1:32:40Speaker 05

  Or if it crossed over to cattle, who knows what would happen?

• 1:32:43Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, that's, see, that's the other part that like, the other point I always make is like, um,

• 1:32:50Steven Rinella?

  I always look like, man, those boys aren't sweating it. Maybe I shouldn't sweat it.

• 1:32:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 1:32:56Steven Rinella?

  Because they're not worried about their cattle. And their cattle look a hell of a lot more like a deer than I do. But then other guys are like, cattle guys are sweating it. It's scary, man. Like, just the unknown is scary. But the, the whole burger point is, the, the, the CWD burger I want to make is like, and I do, I am gonna do this.

• 1:33:18Speaker 04

  Some pre, pre-frozen patties in the freezer, ready to go.

• 1:33:21Steven Rinella?

  It's like, dude, I want, I want to hear from, I wanna talk with and hang out with and converse with more people who don't care. Cause then maybe it'll make me not care, cause it makes me nervous. And I, why, who wants to be nervous?

• 1:33:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:33:34Steven Rinella?

  Like, no one like chooses to be nervous.

• 1:33:36Speaker 04

  Ignorance is bliss.

• 1:33:36Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Like, when you see those drugs that are supposed to like, um, make you more sexually desirous.

• 1:33:44Speaker 07

  Right? I'm like, if you're not, if you have no appetite,

• 1:33:52Speaker 07

  do you wish you did?

• 1:33:55Speaker 07

  It's a weird thing, you know what I mean?

• 1:33:58Speaker 07

  Do you follow what I'm saying? Like, I wish I wanted something that I can't get, but like, I don't want to be nervous about, um, I don't want to be nervous about CWD.

• 1:34:08Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:08Speaker 07

  But if I give my burger to some dude and he eats the burger, then I'm like, man, this is a true believer.

• 1:34:15Speaker 05

  Yeah, he doesn't care anyway, you know?

• 1:34:17Speaker 06

  Makes me nervous around like spinal cords, like my,

• 1:34:20Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, dude.

• 1:34:21Speaker 06

  Like, my, before my deer tested negative, but it's like always to that point.

• 1:34:28Speaker 05

  There's no such thing as a negative test.

• 1:34:30Speaker 06

  Right, negative, it's non-detected, right? And so that's the other thing that makes me nervous. And I'm like, if I wait three more days, or wait four more days, like what's the like pre-on load that would push the little meter to detect it? And then I'm like getting all weird about the spinal cord. And then one day I forgot and I kind of like sectioned part of the back and cooked it in a soup and like slurped up the spinal cord. And I was like, don't!

• 1:34:57Speaker 07

  See, I have, I have no like personal anxiety about getting CWD.

• 1:35:02Steven Rinella?

  Really? Would you eat my burger?

• 1:35:05Speaker 07

  I mean, I just,

• 1:35:06Steven Rinella?

  Randall's the first guy that's gonna have the burger.

• 1:35:08Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 1:35:08Steven Rinella?

  Did you get your deer tested?

• 1:35:10Speaker 07

  I, yeah, I've gotten, I've gotten deer tested.

• 1:35:12Speaker 05

  Company man.

• 1:35:13Speaker 07

  No, no, I mean, I just,

• 1:35:14Speaker 06

  I care about you too much as a friend, buddy, no.

• 1:35:16Speaker 05

  You don't lose sleep over it.

• 1:35:18Steven Rinella?

  How about a meatball?

• 1:35:18Speaker 07

  I think of, no, I guess,

• 1:35:20Steven Rinella?

  Swedish meatballs.

• 1:35:21Speaker 07

  It's one of those things where I'm, I see, I see CWD as like this existential problem for deer in North America and deer hunting as we know it. Right? But I think like the odds of the, the piano falling out of the sky and hitting me and I'm the first human to get it. I see those odds as very low, like me personally getting it. And I'm, I'm the, the case number one. Does that make sense?

• 1:35:47Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I don't think I'm gonna be the case number one.

• 1:35:49Speaker 06

  I mean, it'd be like, everybody, it'd be like thousands of people at the same time get it.

• 1:35:54Steven Rinella?

  No, cuz they would've already been getting it.

• 1:35:57Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:35:57Speaker 05

  And that kind of disease, disease you could carry it around forever and...

• 1:36:01Steven Rinella?

  That's how they scare ya.

• 1:36:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:36:03Steven Rinella?

  They tell ya what you maybe you don't know yet.

• 1:36:04Speaker 06

  I'm in the scared camp.

• 1:36:05Speaker 04

  It's like the cordyceps, like Last of Us show.

• 1:36:09Speaker 04

  The mushroom fungus takes over your brain?

• 1:36:11Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, oh, I haven't seen that.

• 1:36:13Speaker 04

  It's a good one.

• 1:36:14Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:36:14Steven Rinella?

  Like, it's in ya, but you don't know it.

• 1:36:16Speaker 04

  Oh, they know it. They, they, they turn into like zombies or something. It's like a horror kinda TV show, but there's that mushroom, the parasitic mushroom that'll take over like an ant's brain and it kills the ant and then the mushroom grows out of the ant.

• 1:36:27Steven Rinella?

  It's like that happened to dudes.

• 1:36:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:36:30Steven Rinella?

  Would you eat the burger?

• 1:36:32Speaker 04

  I, I mean, I don't think so. I would think about it.

• 1:36:35Speaker 07

  No, no.

• 1:36:35Steven Rinella?

  Would you eat the burger?

• 1:36:36Speaker 04

  I would think about it.

• 1:36:37Speaker 07

  I, I don't know that, I mean, it's, it's not that I, I guess like, if I had, if I tested a deer and it was positive, I wouldn't eat it.

• 1:36:49Speaker 04

  So you definitely would.

• 1:36:50Speaker 07

  Right.

• 1:36:50Speaker 04

  I mean, my burger is made of all...

• 1:36:53Speaker 07

  Right.

• 1:36:54Speaker 04

  It's made of a...

• 1:36:54Speaker 07

  Right, but it's seasoned with CWD. But like, the idea that, the idea that a deer that's, that's either an unknown or has tested not detected, the idea that I would be like personally anxious about somehow...

• 1:37:09Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I don't do that.

• 1:37:10Speaker 07

  Yeah, like, like my own personal anxieties, I mean, plus if I did get CWD and, and I was case one, when they did all the blood tests on me, they'd find something else that's wrong with me and then that would actually be the primary concern, I feel like. You know, I just think of all the things in the world for me personally, that's gonna, that's gonna change my arc in the universe.

• 1:37:30Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:31Speaker 05

  It's kinda like eating fish from a lake that has like, uh, high mercury.

• 1:37:36Speaker 07

  Yeah, like...

• 1:37:36Steven Rinella?

  I don't care about that.

• 1:37:38Speaker 06

  I mean, but I guess for me, it's not just...

• 1:37:40Steven Rinella?

  I'd eat that, I'd eat that fish burger.

• 1:37:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:37:42Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 1:37:43Speaker 05

  I already have.

• 1:37:44Steven Rinella?

  A pokey bowl, a pokey bowl full of high mercury fish, oh yeah.

• 1:37:47Speaker 04

  I've, I've eaten Lake Ontario salmon that, that I later kinda researched and was like, yeah, I probably shouldn't have eaten that.

• 1:37:51Steven Rinella?

  That's not gonna do anything to ya, dude.

• 1:37:54Speaker 06

  I mean, but you guys were eating like... You know, your mercury poisoning.

• 1:37:59Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, but it's totally different, man.

• 1:38:00Speaker 06

  Yeah, but what does that have a lasting effect?

• 1:38:01Steven Rinella?

  Getting like.

• 1:38:02Speaker 06

  Yeah, I know. It's just like health in general, maintaining or.

• 1:38:06Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. See, Yoitz, CJD. Getting CJD is not having a little mercury spike.

• 1:38:13Speaker 06

  No, I'm not saying that they're the same thing, but it's like, if you can, for me personally, I try to avoid to the extent possible. Like, I don't put plastic in the microwave. Like, it extends to, I'm consistent across the board.

• 1:38:27Steven Rinella?

  You don't flirt, you don't flirt with danger.

• 1:38:28Speaker 06

  No, I try not to.

• 1:38:29Speaker 05

  When you first brought up the CWD burger idea, I believe you were going to grind the spine into the burger.

• 1:38:38Steven Rinella?

  Well, I did.

• 1:38:38Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 1:38:39Steven Rinella?

  No, but then someone pointed this out. Someone pointed out, but I don't grind my spines into my burger.

• 1:38:46Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 1:38:47Steven Rinella?

  So it's like, out of fairness.

• 1:38:49Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:38:49Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:49Speaker 05

  Out of fairness.

• 1:38:50Steven Rinella?

  I'm like, yeah, like a brain. You're an honest broker here. He's like, I don't eat the deer, I don't eat the deer brains anyways, so don't put it in, I don't want a deer brain burger out of any kind of.

• 1:38:59Speaker 05

  Would you, would you lose sleep if you found out after the fact that you ate?

• 1:39:04Steven Rinella?

  No.

• 1:39:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, this is like, that's what I'm saying.

• 1:39:07Steven Rinella?

  No, because I guarantee I have. I guarantee I have.

• 1:39:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think I have.

• 1:39:10Steven Rinella?

  Because I got buddies, I got buddies like, buddies of mine in Wisconsin, like, they'll be like, send you some summer sausage or something, you know?

• 1:39:18Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:39:18Steven Rinella?

  Sure. Like, I, I probably have. But here's the deal, one time, like, see, my wife doesn't listen to anything I say or write, so I can say this here, so it won't go back to her. My daughter killed a deer in a high CWD area, or not a high area, she killed a deer in a CW, where they recommend testing. And, and this is a county where there's CWD cases. So I submit my sample on the way home. You can just pull in and submit. I submit my sample on the way home.

• 1:39:45Steven Rinella?

  And we eat the heart right away. Because I kind of forgot for a minute. Then I'm thinking to myself, that some bitch comes back positive. I either got to live with the secret.

• 1:39:58Steven Rinella?

  Or I got to tell my wife, like, hey, you know, like, uh, you know.

• 1:40:06Steven Rinella?

  And she's gonna be pissed.

• 1:40:09Steven Rinella?

  But it came back negative.

• 1:40:10Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:40:11Speaker 04

  I think I had text you, uh, last summer when I thought I infected myself and entire party with trichinosis.

• 1:40:18Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:19Speaker 04

  I think, and, and, and you were like, I think I just got the flu or something after I, like a week later and I text you because I was freaked out and you said, no, I think it's like a month for symptoms.

• 1:40:28Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:29Speaker 04

  And it turned out being, uh, being negative and it was nothing, but I was, uh, I was pretty freaked out.

• 1:40:34Steven Rinella?

  Sure.

• 1:40:34Speaker 04

  I, I, I didn't care that I had it. I was freaked out that I had like potentially given it to like 30 people at a barbecue.

• 1:40:39Speaker 07

  For life.

• 1:40:40Steven Rinella?

  It doesn't, no, it doesn't matter.

• 1:40:41Speaker 04

  Would you serve them bear? Uh, cougar. I did a cougar ham and we, we, I spit, this is funny. I spit roasted a beaver and I did a cougar ham and, uh, and I remember like temping the beaver repeatedly. And I, I know I temped the cougar, but I couldn't remember what the final temp was.

• 1:40:59Steven Rinella?

  And then was it 130?

• 1:41:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:41:02Steven Rinella?

  Or 160?

• 1:41:03Speaker 04

  Yeah. And it's like, I had, it was my birthday, so I had had a few drinks. We were having fun and the next day I just was like, I don't really remember what that, that cougar was. And then I got sick, like, you know, four or five days after and then was like, oh, yeah.

• 1:41:18Steven Rinella?

  But it doesn't matter.

• 1:41:19Speaker 07

  The Fahrenheit Celsius thing too is probably tricky for you, you know?

• 1:41:23Steven Rinella?

  Oh, yeah. You guys use metric. What do you cook meat to in metric? How's that work?

• 1:41:27Speaker 04

  You know, I use, uh, Fahrenheit. I use imperial. Yeah. It's like in, in culinary school, they still teach you the, the imperial temperatures.

• 1:41:35Steven Rinella?

  They do?

• 1:41:36Speaker 04

  I think now maybe like, cause I'm, you know, old enough that maybe they weren't, but they kind of teach you both and just all the old school chefs I grew, everything was always Fahrenheit. And a lot of our ovens and equipment.

• 1:41:46Steven Rinella?

  Seriously?

• 1:41:46Speaker 04

  Come from the States too. So I think, so they're all the dials and stuff are in, I think it's like a car. Like you can see the Celsius or Fahrenheit, but I think Fahrenheit's more predominant.

• 1:41:54Steven Rinella?

  That's so weird. Cause in the U S, everything that matters, they do in metric.

• 1:41:57Speaker 04

  Yeah. Like I think.

• 1:41:58Steven Rinella?

  Like the military runs, the military runs metric.

• 1:42:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:42:02Steven Rinella?

  NASA, they're not like, ah, you know, three eighths of an inch.

• 1:42:05Speaker 04

  Like my.

• 1:42:05Speaker 07

  For a couple of yards from the moon here.

• 1:42:08Speaker 04

  My oven at home is in Fahrenheit, so it's just.

• 1:42:11Steven Rinella?

  Is it really?

• 1:42:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, so cooking stuff I use Fahrenheit.

• 1:42:14Steven Rinella?

  And you were taught that in culinary school?

• 1:42:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think they always showed you both. But like, like, like I said, our equipment's in Fahrenheit.

• 1:42:23Steven Rinella?

  When you wake up in the morning, what's the temperature?

• 1:42:25Speaker 04

  That's in Celsius, which is bizarre. Like, I have to, I have to cross-reference stuff when I'm traveling to like, I know 80s like warm, you know, 90s hot, you know, 60s, 70s is like comfortable.

• 1:42:38Steven Rinella?

  You got it, that's all I need to know.

• 1:42:39Speaker 04

  32 is freezing. Like, I know the basics, but I don't know the conversions like exact.

• 1:42:44Steven Rinella?

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• 1:43:29Steven Rinella?

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• 1:44:13Steven Rinella?

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• 1:44:18Steven Rinella?

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• 1:44:24Speaker 02

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• 1:44:39Steven Rinella?

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• 1:45:24Steven Rinella?

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• 1:45:57Steven Rinella?

  Tell me about spit roasting a beaver.

• 1:45:59Speaker 04

  So I text a friend of mine that's Indigenous and I, someone had gifted me this beaver. They were trapping, they said they had too many. Did I want a beaver? And I said, you know, yes. And this thing was gigantic. It was the biggest beaver I've ever seen.

• 1:46:14Steven Rinella?

  Tell me, don't give me vagaries, man.

• 1:46:16Speaker 04

  I didn't, you know, I didn't weigh it, but I've seen like, this thing was massive. Like it was like a, like a large dog.

• 1:46:22Steven Rinella?

  Give it to me in pounds.

• 1:46:23Speaker 04

  I didn't weigh it.

• 1:46:24Steven Rinella?

  I show you a picture.

• 1:46:26Speaker 04

  So I called my, my buddy who's Indigenous.

• 1:46:28Steven Rinella?

  Talking blank.

• 1:46:28Speaker 04

  I said, I said, you know, what do you guys, what do you do with this? I don't know, like, what would someone in your community do with beaver meat? And they said they smoke it, so they always smoke. So I thought, okay, I'm gonna, I bought this rotisserie thing. And I did a huge open fire and just spit roasted it. And so he said they smoke it. So I wanted to smoke it over wood and charcoal. And then I was glazing it with birch syrup, which I just kind of came up with on my own. Because it's like kind of molasses-y, savory, sweet, kind of has a tanginess to it. And it came out awesome.

• 1:46:58Steven Rinella?

  Man, I got a problem where I like, I missed some of the detail. You bet, you were putting the syrup on it while you?

• 1:47:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, so I had it on a rotisserie.

• 1:47:06Steven Rinella?

  And you was like dripping it on there, dripping it on.

• 1:47:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, and I had like a brush and I'd kind of brush it every, every, every so often.

• 1:47:11Steven Rinella?

  Do you make that birch syrup?

• 1:47:12Speaker 04

  I, you know what? I tried to make birch syrup one year and I got so many flies and moths in it, it was pretty gross. Birch, the birch trees run after the maple trees run.

• 1:47:22Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 1:47:23Speaker 04

  And by that time, all the snow is gone and it's actually quite warm. And you have to do it with the tube and line system where there's no oxygen and the flies can't get in, which I just did it with a bucket.

• 1:47:33Steven Rinella?

  No kidding?

• 1:47:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, so if you just hang a bucket, like for maple season, you can hang, I do lines now.

• 1:47:38Steven Rinella?

  Oh, and they get in there?

• 1:47:38Speaker 04

  They, so like I opened the lid of this bucket and there was like 300 moths in this one little bucket. And I was like, that's gross.

• 1:47:45Steven Rinella?

  Dude, this, this whole thing is such a knowledge gap with me is, um.

• 1:47:49Speaker 04

  It's neat, it's fun.

• 1:47:50Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, when we were kids, we'd run around trying to tap stuff. We had no idea what we were doing and we just like tap in the summer.

• 1:47:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:47:55Steven Rinella?

  Uh, yeah, no, no experience with it. My brother Danny in Alaska, he makes the birch syrup.

• 1:48:00Speaker 04

  Cool.

• 1:48:01Steven Rinella?

  It takes twice, like the racial is already terrible.

• 1:48:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:48:03Steven Rinella?

  But it's twice as terrible.

• 1:48:05Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:48:05Steven Rinella?

  And then everything you put it on tastes like a buckwheat pancake.

• 1:48:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, it has like a molasses, yeah, tanginess, yeah.

• 1:48:14Speaker 04

  No, it's, so yeah, maple syrup is fun. So like back home, it's, the season is now. Um, in the spring, when the temperatures are above freezing during the day and then they freeze at night. It's sort of the optimal season.

• 1:48:27Steven Rinella?

  So how'd you serve, what'd you wind up doing with that beaver then?

• 1:48:31Speaker 04

  We, uh, so we were shooting it for the cookbook, so it's in the second cookbook, which is out in September. Um, and we just did like a barbecue plate with it. We, I sliced it, sliced some of the tail and just had it with the birch syrup glaze.

• 1:48:47Steven Rinella?

  But when you did that. Were you able to get it? You didn't get where you could pull it?

• 1:48:52Speaker 04

  Um, it was some parts you could pull. Like I, I think I did it for about ten hours or something. Yeah. I did. I started in the morning. Yeah. So like some parts you could pull, some of the thicker, like, uh, the hind quarter stuff I could slice. Like I could physically rip it. Like it wasn't like falling apart pulling, but I could kind of pull it off the bone and then I sliced it.

• 1:49:10Steven Rinella?

  You did hide off, right?

• 1:49:12Speaker 04

  Yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 1:49:13Steven Rinella?

  Well, you know, and there's a mountain man Osborne Russell.

• 1:49:18Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:49:18Steven Rinella?

  Left a very, very good journal.

• 1:49:20Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:49:20Steven Rinella?

  Um, and he describes that, he describes the sheep eaters, the Shoshone group that was in like the Absorcas. Was that where it was when he ran into him? Was he in the Absorcas?

• 1:49:33Speaker 05

  I think it's down by the Tetons.

• 1:49:35Steven Rinella?

  Oh, was that where he ran into him?

• 1:49:36Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:49:37Steven Rinella?

  They, when they're cooking them, they were doing it like how you would do a hog, a roast hog.

• 1:49:44Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:49:45Steven Rinella?

  But they're burning the hair off instead of scalding it.

• 1:49:47Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 1:49:48Steven Rinella?

  So they're rolling it to burn all the hair off and then roasting it skin on like you would a pig, which I'm kind of dying to try.

• 1:49:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:49:56Steven Rinella?

  I want to dehair one.

• 1:49:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:50:00Steven Rinella?

  Gut it, dehair it so it's cavity back up was good stuff to eat inside there.

• 1:50:06Speaker 04

  That'd be cool.

• 1:50:06Steven Rinella?

  And then roast it skin on.

• 1:50:08Speaker 04

  Yeah. I wonder if you'd get that crackling like you would with pig skin. They're, they're kind of greasy.

• 1:50:12Steven Rinella?

  They're greasy. It's a tough hide. Yeah. I'm definitely wanting to do that.

• 1:50:15Speaker 04

  That'd be really cool.

• 1:50:16Steven Rinella?

  That'd be cool.

• 1:50:17Speaker 04

  Um.

• 1:50:18Steven Rinella?

  And then what'd you do with your mountain lion?

• 1:50:20Speaker 04

  Uh.

• 1:50:21Steven Rinella?

  Everybody not sick.

• 1:50:22Speaker 04

  Yeah. I did, uh, like a, uh, char sue kind of Chinese barbecue sauce, uh, that I marinated it in and, uh, and, and smoked it. And I say the guy, I smoked it not to the point of pulling, but where it was like really tender and I could slice it.

• 1:50:37Steven Rinella?

  You guys don't, um, where'd you, where's that mountain lion from?

• 1:50:41Speaker 04

  My friend shot that in, uh, British Columbia.

• 1:50:44Steven Rinella?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:50:45Speaker 04

  Yeah. So he gifted that hind quarter.

• 1:50:46Speaker 05

  What do they call them up there? They got, they just call them cats. Yeah.

• 1:50:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:50:50Steven Rinella?

  Cats?

• 1:50:51Speaker 04

  Mountain lions.

• 1:50:51Steven Rinella?

  Oh, they do use.

• 1:50:52Speaker 04

  Like, are they like cat hunting or mountain lion?

• 1:50:54Steven Rinella?

  Not cougar. Not catamount.

• 1:50:57Speaker 04

  I've never heard catamount. That's new to me. No, no. I have yet to shoot one. I've, I've, I'm trying to. Trying to get my hands on a tag, but they're, unless you live in a, you know, province or state, I think they're, they're getting kind of expensive. You gotta know somebody or get a deal, but.

• 1:51:12Steven Rinella?

  Does Canada, the same way that for, for an American dude to go hunt or something like to go hunt big game, for an American to go hunt big game in Canada, there's all the guide, there's guide requirements.

• 1:51:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:51:23Steven Rinella?

  But if you hunt out of province in Canada.

• 1:51:26Speaker 04

  Depends on the province.

• 1:51:27Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 1:51:28Speaker 04

  For me to go to B C or Alberta, Saskatchewan, Newfoundland, most of the provinces actually, except for Ontario where I live, you have to go with a guide. I'm, I'm technically a non-resident, even in my own country.

• 1:51:41Steven Rinella?

  See, that's, that's a real difference.

• 1:51:42Speaker 05

  For all, all games?

• 1:51:44Speaker 04

  Um, birds, I don't, I think it's big game. Small games off the list. Uh, big game, I don't know if it's like a safety thing, you know, they don't want people climbing mountains that don't know what they're doing. Maybe, I don't know.

• 1:51:58Steven Rinella?

  You know what kind of thing it is?

• 1:51:59Speaker 04

  Yeah. Money.

• 1:52:01Steven Rinella?

  For you people not watching, I'm doing the.

• 1:52:03Speaker 04

  The money sign.

• 1:52:04Steven Rinella?

  Shuffling some bills around.

• 1:52:06Speaker 04

  But yeah, maybe that's a good thing. Like it's like local economy, it's, but you know, the price tag of things now is just getting out of control. Like I'm like, will I ever shoot a sheep, you know? The one cool thing though about Alberta and B C and these big game, there is a slight kind of workaround. If you know someone that has, someone that lives there and is a resident, they can apply, uh, it's called a permission to a company. So I can go with a local that lives there and we have to apply for this permission to a company. Three months before the season or something.

• 1:52:37Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:37Speaker 04

  And then I can put in for the draw and then potentially draw a tag.

• 1:52:41Speaker 05

  Spencer was just researching the old permission to a company.

• 1:52:44Steven Rinella?

  I've had people invite me on those permission to a companies.

• 1:52:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:52:50Steven Rinella?

  But you know, it's so, I'd love to understand it better. I mean, you gotta have. It's hard to understand your own state.

• 1:52:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:52:59Steven Rinella?

  You know, I'm always explaining what goes on here and it changes all the time. It's hard to get like a good grip. And then you're talking about like a huge place with all these, you know, how many, what, seven? How many provinces are there?

• 1:53:08Speaker 04

  There is 10 provinces, three territories.

• 1:53:11Steven Rinella?

  See that, Randall?

• 1:53:12Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:53:13Steven Rinella?

  Something like that. Pretty good. I corrected myself. Um.

• 1:53:17Speaker 04

  I'm gonna count.

• 1:53:20Steven Rinella?

  Tell, tell, tell us about the book though, man. Tell us about your new cookbook. Tell us about your last cookbook.

• 1:53:24Speaker 04

  Um, well, the first cookbook did, did really well, and I think it surprised my publisher as a first time Canadian author. Um, you know, thanks to guys like you. Um, it did really well in the States, so I think they were really surprised. Um, you know, it was in every Bass Pro across the country, which I thought was pretty amazing.

• 1:53:40Steven Rinella?

  That's awesome, yeah.

• 1:53:41Speaker 04

  It's an amazing book. Yeah, thank you. Um, and, and that was a passion project for me for like 10 years. I worked on that thing. Uh, I originally thought, oh, I'm gonna self-publish and I did a lot of the photography just because I was like a 20 year old kid. You know, taking interest in something and run around with a camera. Uh, I couldn't really afford a photographer, so I thought, I'll just take, you know, pictures myself and, you know. Um, and then, um, so the first book did really, really well. And then, you know, a lot of years went by and, and my publisher said, hey, you know, would you, you think about a second book? And, and, uh, I really love, you know, I love barbecue, you know, but, you know, I'm not really known as a barbecue guy.

• 1:54:17Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, but you did that, Beaver.

• 1:54:20Speaker 04

  Yeah. But, uh, you know, because at first I was like, oh, I'd like to do a barbecue book. And it's like, well, I'm not really a pit master. Um, but then I started thinking about.

• 1:54:27Steven Rinella?

  You felt like you were like a, you felt like you were like an interloper.

• 1:54:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, you know, like that, um, what's that syndrome? The imposter syndrome, maybe.

• 1:54:34Speaker 05

  Is barbecue like popular?

• 1:54:37Speaker 04

  It is, but you know, Canada doesn't have its own barbecue culture.

• 1:54:40Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:54:40Speaker 04

  Like, there's like, you know, the Carolina barbecue versus Texas and, you know, so, but then I was, I wanted, you know, really make it authentic. Um, and then I, I thought, you know, what do I love most? And it's like, I love cooking over a fire.

• 1:54:51Steven Rinella?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:54:52Speaker 04

  So the second book is, is all over the fire.

• 1:54:55Steven Rinella?

  Do you guys do that in your restaurant?

• 1:54:57Speaker 04

  We have some, we have a little live fire grill that we finish everything on. So we'll like pan sear a ribeye and a, we have a bison ribeye. We cast iron, pan sear it, and then we finish it on this little charcoal barbecue that's uh, and it just imparts that like, you know, that little charcoal kiss of smoke into it.

• 1:55:17Speaker 06

  Charcoal kiss.

• 1:55:18Speaker 04

  A lot of people comment, they're like, what's different about your meat? And it's like, oh, it's finished on charcoal. And then uh, but yeah, there's just something about cooking over a live fire, like you can't, you can't, it's hard to explain, but it's just, it tastes better. And I don't, you know, I don't know why that is. It's whether you're just, cause you're standing around watching the flames, being outside, you know, all those things that go along with it, you know, you and everyone in this room knows about, you know, what cooking like, cooking at camp is like, like, why does it taste so good? And then when you go home, it's, it's good, but it's not the same, you know? And is it, is it the experience outdoors? Is it that you're so hungry because you've been hiking a mountain, you know, on your, on your sheep hunt or whatever it is, you know, why does that meal taste so good? It's over the fire, you know?

• 1:55:59Speaker 04

  And it's uh, it's, as a professional chef, like I, I can't figure it out, you know? And it's um, so anyway, that's what I was passionate about. I thought, you know, this was uh, this was gonna be a fun project to do all over the fire. And uh, and yeah, it proved to be a lot harder than the first one because everything had to be done outside over a fire.

• 1:56:17Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:19Speaker 04

  But there's a lot, a lot more seafood in this book. And uh, there's still some desserts and cocktails and stuff I work into it that can be made over the fire on a smoker.

• 1:56:29Speaker 04

  And uh, and yeah, I'm really excited about it.

• 1:56:32Steven Rinella?

  You got photos from all over the place.

• 1:56:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, I did a lot of travel. Um, I've been really, really fortunate to uh, to work with some, some cool hunting companies that kind of helped me on the travel stuff. And uh, yeah, musk ox is in there, antelope is in there, um, elk uh, is in there, um, and uh,

• 1:56:52Steven Rinella?

  Grease balls. Lakers.

• 1:56:56Speaker 04

  There's some lake trout in there.

• 1:56:57Steven Rinella?

  I love those things, but I was more joking about when I was a kid, that's what people.

• 1:57:01Speaker 04

  People call them?

• 1:57:02Steven Rinella?

  They were, they went through a period of being, um, that's weird, man. Like in Michigan, they went through a period of being.

• 1:57:09Speaker 05

  It was probably because of like the introduced salmon and people looked at them.

• 1:57:14Speaker 04

  They got all excited about it.

• 1:57:15Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think that's.

• 1:57:16Steven Rinella?

  Like those, that fishery was built on Lakers, not built on, but like, I mean, Lakers were a huge.

• 1:57:20Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:57:21Steven Rinella?

  Part of the fishery, you know, and then they kind of got decimated by Lambres. Salmon came in and then when I was a little kid, people would talk about lake trout, like almost being like adjacent to a rough fish. Now they're celebrated again, you know, damn, they're good, man. They're so good.

• 1:57:37Speaker 04

  I was actually, uh, fishing for lake trout last week with some buddies and I was actually getting, uh, frustrated. I didn't catch any good eating sized one. We were catching these monsters, which was like unreal.

• 1:57:50Steven Rinella?

  Through the ice?

• 1:57:50Speaker 04

  Through the ice. Yeah. I'd never caught anything that big, any kind of fish through the ice before. So I was like freaking out. Um, and then I was like, we can't eat these in this big. And they're like, no, like you can't eat, they weigh like mushy and like, they're not good to eat when they're big.

• 1:58:05Speaker 04

  Cause I've, I've caught lots of small ones, you know, uh, through the ice and different, different lakes. Um, and up north, a couple of summers ago, I caught like a 45 pound lake trout.

• 1:58:14Steven Rinella?

  Wow.

• 1:58:15Speaker 03

  Whoa.

• 1:58:15Steven Rinella?

  Really?

• 1:58:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, there's a lodge, uh, they're called Plumbers Arctic Lodges. Uh, and they're in Great Bear Lake in, um, the Northwest Territories and they're one of the deepest lakes in the world.

• 1:58:26Steven Rinella?

  Forty-five pound lake trout.

• 1:58:28Speaker 04

  And that's not even like their record is 70.

• 1:58:30Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I think, I think the record record out of, I think, wasn't Michigan, wasn't there a 90 pounder came out of Michigan?

• 1:58:34Speaker 05

  No, the world record's out of Great Slave Lake, mate. What? It's out of Canada. It's over a hundred.

• 1:58:42Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I feel like the Michigan, there's one, there's like an account of a 90 something from Michigan, but it was so long ago, you wonder what the hell they measured it on.

• 1:58:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:58:50Steven Rinella?

  Like bags of sand on one of the little deals, you know, the scales of justice.

• 1:58:54Speaker 04

  But uh, not, yeah, so that place was, but I'd never caught one that big through the ice. So this one's probably a fifteen, twenty pound range.

• 1:59:01Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 1:59:02Speaker 04

  But uh, yeah, it was well, and I, I had gone, I, I wasn't expecting to catch anything that big. So I used my little six inch auger and my buddies had an eight inch auger. And I'm like yelling at them to come over and give me a hand, cause I just.

• 1:59:13Steven Rinella?

  To widen the hole.

• 1:59:14Speaker 04

  Well, I was like, what are we gonna do here? You know, we got it through. It was pretty, pretty uh, challenging, but we got it through. Um, but yeah, it's uh, so anyway, I've been, I've been on a big ice fishing kick lately.

• 1:59:23Steven Rinella?

  Did you guys put a gaff and do it to drag it up through that small hole?

• 1:59:26Speaker 04

  No, no, we just stuck our hand in them.

• 1:59:28Steven Rinella?

  Cause that's the thing you want, like when the hole, when, when you get real deep ice.

• 1:59:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:59:33Steven Rinella?

  That you can't get, you know? And when they come up and that hooks, I'm talking about Northeast, but you know? Northerns, but it'd be the same with lake trout.

• 1:59:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:59:41Steven Rinella?

  Is the hooks coming outside of their mouth.

• 1:59:43Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:59:44Steven Rinella?

  And when he comes up to the ice, he's like sideways in there.

• 1:59:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:59:49Steven Rinella?

  Where the front of his face is on one side of the hole and his gill covers on the other side of the hole and no amount of. It's so hard to ever get him finagled.

• 1:59:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, to get his head.

• 1:59:58Steven Rinella?

  Because you can't, because the whole, the ice is too thick to manipulate it by.

• 2:00:02Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:00:02Steven Rinella?

  Pulling the line around. So we would.

• 2:00:04Speaker 07

  Turns into a drywall anchor.

• 2:00:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:00:07Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, we would.

• 2:00:07Speaker 04

  It's a good analogy.

• 2:00:08Steven Rinella?

  Just take a big fishing hook. I had, I have one that's just, it's a big treble hook on the end of a long graphite fishing rod.

• 2:00:15Speaker 04

  Yeah. Neat.

• 2:00:16Steven Rinella?

  Um, that you can just put down there and just try to get something into him.

• 2:00:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:00:20Steven Rinella?

  To.

• 2:00:21Speaker 04

  Pull him up.

• 2:00:21Steven Rinella?

  Finagle his head around.

• 2:00:22Speaker 04

  Yeah. We were on like twelve inches, so we just stuck our hand down and pulled him up.

• 2:00:27Steven Rinella?

  Nah, that forty five pounder, that's cool.

• 2:00:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:00:29Steven Rinella?

  And you got a cool way of cooking them in the book.

• 2:00:32Speaker 04

  Um, the lake trout, we just did over a, a fire and then we.

• 2:00:36Steven Rinella?

  Have you got that one, that picture where it's like propped?

• 2:00:38Speaker 04

  Oh, that's uh, so that, that's a steelhead.

• 2:00:41Steven Rinella?

  Oh, that was a steelhead. Some of these I thought, I remembered that being a lake trout.

• 2:00:43Speaker 04

  I nailed it to a cedar. Sexiest thing. Yeah, I nailed that to a cedar plank.

• 2:00:47Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:47Speaker 04

  I put some kelp behind it and, and put that over the fire. That was cool.

• 2:00:50Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, no, that's pretty.

• 2:00:51Speaker 04

  We did that.

• 2:00:52Steven Rinella?

  Really cool pictures.

• 2:00:53Speaker 04

  Thanks.

• 2:00:54Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:54Speaker 04

  Thanks. Yeah. So some of those, I, a lot of those I took, the, the ones in nature I take myself and then my business partner takes the, the indoor kind of.

• 2:01:01Steven Rinella?

  Well, that's your, that's a lot of your photography?

• 2:01:02Speaker 04

  Yeah. Hmm, yeah.

• 2:01:04Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 2:01:06Steven Rinella?

  That's talented.

• 2:01:07Speaker 04

  I, uh, I, you know, I can take, I'm not, you know, I, I use auto mode a lot. I can, I can manipulate some stuff in manual mode, you know, but I'll take a picture in auto and then try and correct some stuff.

• 2:01:19Steven Rinella?

  But, yeah.

• 2:01:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, I just point and shoot.

• 2:01:21Steven Rinella?

  How many recipes are in the book?

• 2:01:22Speaker 04

  I think it's about a hundred, this one as well.

• 2:01:24Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:24Speaker 04

  Yeah. The seafood one, I got them down to eighty, cause I'm like, I don't know, that's a lot. So the number three is gonna be eighty, but yeah, this one's a hundred.

• 2:01:32Steven Rinella?

  When you're doing that, how mu- when you're putting a book together, how much do you think of it like, um, how do you imagine the balance between things that people wouldn't think to eat? And so you're trying to convince people to try stuff, which I would put like, I mean, people have always eaten beavers, but I put beavers in that pile.

• 2:01:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:01:53Steven Rinella?

  Mountain lions have always been eaten, but I put mountain lions in the pile. So like, just general Joe Blow.

• 2:01:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:01:59Steven Rinella?

  Like, there's always subcultures that consume this stuff, but like,

• 2:02:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:02:02Steven Rinella?

  The general Joe Blow is gonna be reluctant to try, so you wanna encourage them. On the other hand, you wanna have the stuff that's just easy and good.

• 2:02:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:02:12Steven Rinella?

  That everybody knows is good. Are you aware of this?

• 2:02:16Speaker 04

  The mix, the sales mix?

• 2:02:17Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, like, yeah, yeah, like, what is your mix? Like, what's your personal mix?

• 2:02:20Speaker 04

  I think, I think my publisher called them, or editor called them like the aspirational recipes. I think there's about five to ten percent.

• 2:02:26Steven Rinella?

  You mean, they're kinda weird stuff?

• 2:02:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, the weird stuff. Um, so I think it's probably five or ten percent, you know, weird stuff.

• 2:02:31Steven Rinella?

  Aspirational.

• 2:02:32Speaker 04

  And then, yeah, I just, I cook what I like, and I, I want, you know, and there's, there's like a, you know, porketta, which is like an Italian staple with, uh, you know, with pork. And, uh, you know, so it's not like, that's not, you know, really anything new, but, uh, it's just stuff that I like to cook, and maybe, you know, somebody in, uh, you know, rural Mississippi's never done a porketta. You know, so they can see that book, but it's, it's again, it's not like I'm reinventing the wheel. But it's just, I just wanna share with people what, what I like to cook, and you can use wild ingredients doing it.

• 2:03:04Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:05Speaker 05

  I, I'm looking at like some of the, some of your barbecue recipes, for instance, and, and you have like smoked cougar ham, bear ribs.

• 2:03:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, oh, the bear ribs are so good.

• 2:03:16Speaker 05

  So it's like pretty cool that, you know, you got some, some odd, odd, well, not odd, but like species.

• 2:03:23Speaker 04

  Aspirational.

• 2:03:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, aspirational. But did you then like, if you can't get a cougar, do it with this?

• 2:03:31Speaker 04

  I don't know if I gave, uh, you know, alternative ingredients for cougar. And, you know, for a lot of the game, my publisher did ask, like, if you can't use bison, use, you know, use a grass fed beef or stuff like that. But yeah, the cougar, well, that's, it's pretty hard to, you know, switch that out. You know, squirrel, you could switch out rabbit or something. But, um, yeah, like for, for bear ribs, there's, you know, I guess the closest thing might be like bison ribs.

• 2:03:54Speaker 05

  That makes me want to like, just think about bear ribs.

• 2:03:56Speaker 04

  Bear, they're so good. Walking people through bear ribs. Use a sawzall that I learned from my dear farmer. Uh, and yeah, you can just cut like whatever size, you know, length of rib you want. These ones I did probably like four or five inch. Cuts down the, the rib cage. And you're not, you're, you're leaving all the. All the fat, everything. So you're not, you're just taking the hide off. Hide off. You're not trimming the outer. No. Layers. Okay. Hide off. And then there's probably like. Fall bear, spring bear? That was a spring bear. Okay. Um, and, uh, and yeah, so then I, I, I put it on the smoker, uh, you know, I had a, a dry rub on it, smoked it. I kind of treated it like a brisket where I, you know, wanted it to hit, you know, a hundred and sixty, a hundred and sixty-five for the stall. And then, uh, I wrapped it in tinfoil.

• 2:04:41Speaker 04

  Just to keep that moisture in. And then what? Uh, and then cook it till like two hundred, two oh five Fahrenheit until you could actually like pull the bones apart. No braising at all? Just all done in the foil? All done in the foil. The, the bear ribs were fatty enough that I didn't need to. Deer ribs, I'll put like a splash of beer in or something in the foil and, and, uh, or, or I'll put it on a, uh, like I'll smoke them first to get the smoke flavor in there. And then I'll put it on a baking sheet. I can add, you know, splash of beer or something, some stock and then cover it. Um, but it also, it, that's the thing about game meat, you know, if you shot a lean spring bear, maybe you do need to use some liquid in there. Yeah. Um, but, uh, for that one, it was, you can see by the picture, like it's pretty fatty. There's a good meaty. It almost looks like a, a beef short rib. It's kind of so meaty. Um. Yeah.

• 2:05:26Steven Rinella?

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• 2:06:10Steven Rinella?

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• 2:06:43Speaker 02

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• 2:06:57Steven Rinella?

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• 2:07:35Steven Rinella?

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• 2:08:15Steven Rinella?

  You know what I made Monday night that bummed me out? What? Was um, I had this, I'd killed a pig in Texas, a wild pig. Yeah. That was fatty. Right. But there were so many pigs around, you could go sneak into the, you could sneak into the, what do they call it, a sounder? Whatever the hell. You could sneak into the little party. Yeah. And look for the fat ones. It was just like a freak thing where there was just pigs that you never imagined. You could pick fat ones out. And I had one that was like, you so seldom get a wild hog, it was just like layered in fat. And I was so excited about these little ribs, I cut up the little wild hog riblets.

• 2:08:51Speaker 06

  I think I have the other half of that, which I haven't cooked yet. Okay.

• 2:08:54Steven Rinella?

  Well, they're good. So I did a braise on them. Yeah. And then threw them in the oven. It's like too much of a good thing. Oh, no. My kids were not into it. Too fatty? Just.

• 2:09:06Speaker 06

  Oh, really?

• 2:09:08Steven Rinella?

  Just the groupiest. Yeah. I never thought you could have it be there's like too. The opposite.

• 2:09:14Speaker 05

  Much of a good thing. Didn't render out or?

• 2:09:17Speaker 06

  Is it like oily or like kind of like gelatinous?

• 2:09:20Steven Rinella?

  What I needed to do was put it in an oven at low heat and let that shit drip out for a long time. Dry out a little bit.

• 2:09:27Speaker 05

  Or set your grill on fire.

• 2:09:29Steven Rinella?

  I was eating them. I was eating them.

• 2:09:30Speaker 06

  Taking a note from you.

• 2:09:31Steven Rinella?

  I ate them and enjoyed it. My daughters like, yeah, but they don't like, they don't eat a lot of, they don't like real fatty meat. They're just not used to it. My kids don't either, like, kind of breaks my heart when I see people like cut the fat off a strip loin and they leave it on their plate. I'm like, oh, that's the best part.

• 2:09:47Speaker 06

  That's what you fork out of their plate if you're with them. No shame in that.

• 2:09:50Speaker 05

  See, I'm surprised to hear that because my kids, you know, that's the reason they love.

• 2:09:54Speaker 03

  Mallard duck is because they're like, oh wow, you're actually serving us something with some fat. And you know, the skin's the best part, right?

• 2:10:02Steven Rinella?

  My wife don't like it.

• 2:10:03Speaker 03

  All over their face.

• 2:10:04Steven Rinella?

  My wife likes, she don't like, she don't like domestic meat, she don't like beef steaks. She likes, she don't like any of that kind of fat. She likes it lean.

• 2:10:10Speaker 03

  I wonder if you had treated it more like you would treat a domestic rack of ribs. If it would have come out better.

• 2:10:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, if you just smoked it.

• 2:10:19Steven Rinella?

  I treated it just like, I did just what I would do for like deer ribs and it was just the wrong move. I, I, I got left, I'm gonna put them back and I'm gonna mess with them. I haven't given up.

• 2:10:27Speaker 04

  That's the secret to cooking when people are like, oh, how do, it's like practice. You just gotta practice and try new things and you tried braising it. You know, didn't get the same results. So it's like try straight smoking it.

• 2:10:37Steven Rinella?

  Well, I'm going back down and I'm going back down to that same place and I'm gonna hunt me down another little fatty. And I'm gonna try it, but you don't get a chance to practice with fat wild hogs. There aren't many of them out there. What, what Jesse Griffiths, Jesse Griffiths put a number on it one time? No, it wasn't him. It was, uh, remember that, remember that dude Clayton Saunders who was real good?

• 2:10:56Speaker 03

  The obesity rate among wild hogs.

• 2:10:58Speaker 06

  Oh, like how many are fat?

• 2:11:00Steven Rinella?

  No, I said, was it Clayton Saunders? Down in Texas.

• 2:11:03Speaker 03

  I, but I can't remember what we're talking about.

• 2:11:05Steven Rinella?

  I said like of all the, of all wild, like all wild pigs, how many are suitable? Remember he put us, he put a hog shoulder?

• 2:11:16Steven Rinella?

  He put a hog shoulder in a, in a smoker. Texas style, had a mop. And I said, uh, how many, like one out of what is suitable to do that with the front shoulder? And I feel like he says something like, man, one in a hundred.

• 2:11:33Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 2:11:34Steven Rinella?

  I'll do that. It was, but it wasn't that. It wasn't that bad. It was bad, but it wasn't that bad. That he would do a, again, just to be clear, that he would take a whole front leg from a wild pig and do it the way he cooked it for us, which was phenomenal. He said it's like a one in whatever.

• 2:11:52Speaker 03

  Like treating it like a duck.

• 2:11:56Steven Rinella?

  And not need to bring any extra stuff to the show.

• 2:12:00Speaker 04

  We did ribs this weekend and I also learned a, a little trick for next time. Uh, bison ribs. And I brought, I had just the whole side of ribs.

• 2:12:11Speaker 07

  And they're frozen and I went to cut them up into those like five inch strips.

• 2:12:17Steven Rinella?

  Uh huh.

• 2:12:18Speaker 07

  And they did it in the kitchen with the sawzall.

• 2:12:20Steven Rinella?

  Sure.

• 2:12:21Speaker 06

  And you got the bone fragments.

• 2:12:22Speaker 07

  And frozen, frozen little meat and bone dust.

• 2:12:27Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 2:12:27Speaker 07

  All over the backsplash.

• 2:12:29Steven Rinella?

  Your wife get mad about stuff like that?

• 2:12:30Speaker 07

  Yeah, that was, that was a good lesson learned.

• 2:12:33Steven Rinella?

  That's so weird, mine like, like she just does it, man. Yeah, as long as I clean it up.

• 2:12:37Speaker 07

  Oh yeah, I cleaned it up too, but it was just like, this was a thing that didn't need to happen. It would have been much easier to do that, do the sawzalling outside.

• 2:12:45Steven Rinella?

  Hold on, if I didn't clean it up, I'd hear about it.

• 2:12:48Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 2:12:48Steven Rinella?

  But I could cut up a person on our counter and she's not gonna care if I clean it up. Do you know what I'm saying?

• 2:12:54Speaker 07

  Yeah, yeah, no, we have, our program's a little different.

• 2:12:58Steven Rinella?

  She doesn't like that kind of stuff.

• 2:12:59Speaker 07

  Yeah, it's just like, well.

• 2:13:01Steven Rinella?

  I'll call her.

• 2:13:01Speaker 07

  She'll probably hear about it.

• 2:13:03Speaker 03

  No, I, I think you're pushing it there with the person analogy. I think she would care.

• 2:13:09Speaker 03

  Depends on the person.

• 2:13:14Steven Rinella?

  If I cleaned up, I wouldn't need to hear about it.

• 2:13:19Steven Rinella?

  That's a secret.

• 2:13:20Speaker 06

  Let him care if your neighbor's crap, right?

• 2:13:23Steven Rinella?

  Maybe, okay, not a person, but I'm saying.

• 2:13:26Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 2:13:27Steven Rinella?

  Not a, I was joking about it.

• 2:13:28Speaker 07

  You can make as big of a mess as you want.

• 2:13:30Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, there's like a person, there's like legal implications. What I'm saying is like, if I clean up, I don't need to worry about what I do in the kitchen.

• 2:13:40Speaker 07

  Yeah, and she's walking through your garage every day where there's like hides hanging and.

• 2:13:45Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, she's like, clean, clean that shit up. I don't know, when you're done. That's just.

• 2:13:50Speaker 07

  It might be that, it might be that my, my cleanup is like a ninety seven out of a hundred. You know, there's always some residual.

• 2:14:01Steven Rinella?

  Do you think your wife would come on the show?

• 2:14:03Speaker 07

  Yeah, happily.

• 2:14:06Speaker 06

  She's been on trivia.

• 2:14:07Steven Rinella?

  Dude, that'd be a great episode, man. Just interview Randall's wife.

• 2:14:11Speaker 06

  Actually, that would be. Sydney is fantastic.

• 2:14:13Speaker 07

  She actually, she actually, uh, she was listening to the trivia, like the past couple trivia episodes, uh, the other day and she said, what I, what my, her new favorite game to play is instead of trying to answer the questions, it's trying to guess which one Seth gets right.

• 2:14:33Speaker 03

  That's cruel, man.

• 2:14:35Steven Rinella?

  Like, even Seth would know that.

• 2:14:37Speaker 04

  Well, she just sort of like she doesn't know Seth that well, but she like she listens along. She's sort of playing this meta game on top of it. It was like based on what Seth gets wrong and right.

• 2:14:48Steven Rinella?

  Does she root for you? Do you feel?

• 2:14:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:14:50Steven Rinella?

  She likes to see you win.

• 2:14:51Speaker 05

  My wife stopped caring about trivia a long time ago. Get all excited about winning. She doesn't care.

• 2:14:59Steven Rinella?

  Just clean up your mess.

• 2:15:01Speaker 05

  Randall's still, Randall's still on the trivia honeymoon.

• 2:15:03Speaker 04

  Still with the whole trivia thing.

• 2:15:05Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, she's like, just clean your mess up, bro. I hope you had fun at trivia.

• 2:15:12Steven Rinella?

  What's your, uh, so, so that's the mix, the blend.

• 2:15:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:15:16Steven Rinella?

  10 to 15%?

• 2:15:17Speaker 04

  Something like that. Yeah. She just, yeah, made it a point to say, you know, not too, not too many of those aspirational recipes.

• 2:15:25Steven Rinella?

  And then what is, um, what do you feel is like the best, the best, what's the star of the show? Like in the book, what is the one, if someone said, hey, I'm gonna cook one thing out of this book, what should I cook?

• 2:15:36Speaker 04

  That's so hard because I, I love, you know, I love a lot of the, the content in there. The, the bear ribs, I think is way up there. Like I was really surprised how good those were.

• 2:15:44Steven Rinella?

  We got off on this whole thing. Sorry. Keep, keep going on the bear ribs. You just serve them like bone on.

• 2:15:50Speaker 04

  Bone on. Yeah. Uh, smoked the whole time. Didn't really braise it. Uh, you know, dry rub. And, uh, yeah, just phenomenal. Really, really surprised how good they came out.

• 2:16:00Steven Rinella?

  Lay them on a plate.

• 2:16:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:16:02Speaker 05

  Serve them with some tangy KC style sauce or?

• 2:16:06Speaker 04

  I, uh, I don't know if Brody still has got the, still got the page up on the computer there, but I forget. I think I served it with the barbecue sauce, the bear ribs. I know you had listed, maybe you're reading the table of contents.

• 2:16:16Speaker 05

  Where is the barbecue?

• 2:16:19Speaker 04

  I forget what I served. I think I glazed it with something.

• 2:16:23Steven Rinella?

  Man, that's cool. It's like I never, when I'm cutting up a bear, I never think to do the ribs. Like I never think to do the ribs on the bone.

• 2:16:30Speaker 04

  Uh, yeah, most of the time I will cut in between the meat out of them, but, uh, yeah, I just, I was on a barbecue kick and I had shot a bear and I'm, I'm gonna do the ribs.

• 2:16:38Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I'm gonna try that this spring. A lot of the bears we deal with are coastal bears though.

• 2:16:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:16:43Steven Rinella?

  And I wonder, I wonder if that, because it's hard to trim the fat out.

• 2:16:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:16:48Steven Rinella?

  And that fat can be pretty fishy.

• 2:16:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:16:50Steven Rinella?

  I might try it. We, we, I was serving some of that fishy bear meat to my buddy Dirt.

• 2:16:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:16:56Steven Rinella?

  And I was like, problem with it, it's like, uh, it's like, it's kind of like, it's like meat, but it's kind of tastes like smoked fish. And they're like, I love smoked fish.

• 2:17:07Steven Rinella?

  He likes to.

• 2:17:08Speaker 04

  That's funny.

• 2:17:10Speaker 05

  I'm not, I'm not, I want to ask you about your fried perch because I know Steve's got opinions on fried perch.

• 2:17:15Steven Rinella?

  Look at him.

• 2:17:17Speaker 06

  He's not, he's not seasoning the fish directly, right?

• 2:17:20Speaker 04

  I, I think I use like a seasoned flour. If I.

• 2:17:24Steven Rinella?

  Flour?

• 2:17:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:17:25Steven Rinella?

  Wheat flour.

• 2:17:26Speaker 04

  Like fish crisp, you know, like.

• 2:17:28Steven Rinella?

  Not cornmeal.

• 2:17:29Speaker 04

  I think I, I think I mix, I put some cornmeal in my seasoned flour.

• 2:17:34Steven Rinella?

  But would you say, like in all honesty, in all honesty, just level with me here.

• 2:17:39Speaker 05

  Brody, is this what you're going for? Oh, yeah.

• 2:17:41Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:17:41Speaker 05

  I knew this would happen. I got a couple more questions.

• 2:17:46Steven Rinella?

  In all honesty, I'm no Canadian.

• 2:17:48Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 2:17:49Steven Rinella?

  Uh. Do you feel that you're from a fish fry culture?

• 2:17:54Speaker 04

  I would say no.

• 2:17:55Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 2:17:56Speaker 04

  No.

• 2:17:57Speaker 05

  Do you leave the skin on the fillets?

• 2:17:58Speaker 04

  Not to fry them. If we're, if I was gonna sear it without breading and stuff, I would, I do like fish skin, like walleye, I love crispy walleye skin. Save a trip, like most fish I leave, I scale it and I will leave the skin on. But fried, yeah.

• 2:18:13Steven Rinella?

  Cause then you clarify that you're not a pit master.

• 2:18:16Speaker 04

  No, I wouldn't, I wouldn't.

• 2:18:17Steven Rinella?

  But now you're saying you're a fry man.

• 2:18:19Speaker 04

  I love to fry, I like to fry stuff. I've fried a lot of food. I think I've fried more food in my life than, than, than legit barbecue, but.

• 2:18:27Steven Rinella?

  Okay, so tell me the perfect perch is, is wheat flour, not cornmeal?

• 2:18:31Speaker 04

  I use both. I mix, yeah, I put, I do, I don't know if it's 25% corn, corn, you know.

• 2:18:36Steven Rinella?

  Got it.

• 2:18:37Speaker 04

  Cornmeal, but. Uh, cause I like the crispy texture.

• 2:18:39Steven Rinella?

  I like that approach, the cornmeal flour mix, cause what it gives, it gives like, like I like a real fine cornmeal.

• 2:18:46Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 2:18:47Steven Rinella?

  But if you can get a little, like a little bit of a medium ground.

• 2:18:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:18:51Steven Rinella?

  You don't get that universal coat.

• 2:18:54Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:18:54Steven Rinella?

  So if you do flour, flour sticks to like, it's just on there. And then, and then you got that cornmeal, so you got like a good even coat, then you got like a little of that texture and stuff.

• 2:19:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:19:07Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, that's a good way to go. What do you fry and what's your oil?

• 2:19:10Speaker 04

  Um, lately I've been using peanut oil. Um, I, I kind of save fat and render everything. I love frying stuff in bare fat. I think it's like the best of the best to fry.

• 2:19:20Steven Rinella?

  How hot do you get it?

• 2:19:23Speaker 04

  Around three fifty and up, around there. Like, you know, we'll do french fries at three hundred and then to finish it like three seventy five.

• 2:19:30Steven Rinella?

  Do you ever make a french fry in bear fat?

• 2:19:32Speaker 04

  Yes, I've done that.

• 2:19:33Steven Rinella?

  No kidding?

• 2:19:34Speaker 04

  It's real good.

• 2:19:34Steven Rinella?

  I never did that.

• 2:19:35Speaker 04

  Bear fat, like, I don't know what it is. It's like, it makes the flakiest pastry. I want to talk to a food scientist about why bear fat makes flakier pastry than like pig lard.

• 2:19:45Steven Rinella?

  Is that right?

• 2:19:46Speaker 04

  I don't know why. It is like the most incredible lard to make pastry.

• 2:19:51Steven Rinella?

  Huh. Yeah. You couldn't legally, no, you probably couldn't. Like, in your restaurant, you couldn't be just frying stuff in bear fat.

• 2:20:00Speaker 04

  Probably.

• 2:20:01Speaker 05

  You gotta get a lot of bears to make that work.

• 2:20:03Steven Rinella?

  Hypothetically.

• 2:20:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, they'd frown upon that.

• 2:20:06Steven Rinella?

  So you like, you like to fry in peanut oil?

• 2:20:07Speaker 04

  At, at home, I fry in peanut. At the restaurant, we don't, just because of the peanut allergy thing.

• 2:20:11Steven Rinella?

  Oh. So what do you have to use in a commercial kitchen?

• 2:20:15Speaker 04

  It's not what, like, we could, we could use.

• 2:20:17Steven Rinella?

  But then you gotta tell people.

• 2:20:17Speaker 04

  We gotta tell, you know, we gotta be really careful. Uh, we use like, you know, most restaurants use canola.

• 2:20:23Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 2:20:23Speaker 04

  It's like just standard. It comes in a big box with a jug and it's, you know.

• 2:20:28Steven Rinella?

  Do you ever fry in beef tallow in your restaurant?

• 2:20:31Speaker 04

  I've never fried with it. I've used it in potatoes, like to roast potatoes and stuff. And like, you know, brush base stuff with and whatever, but I've never actually filled a fryer with beef tallow.

• 2:20:42Steven Rinella?

  Real.

• 2:20:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:20:43Steven Rinella?

  Have you ever hung out with Jesse Griffiths?

• 2:20:45Speaker 04

  I, so I was gonna tell you, because last time I was on the show, I'd, I'd never heard of him. And you told me to look him up and I'd, you know, been following him for the last four years. And then I, I just met him at, uh, N W T F show.

• 2:20:55Steven Rinella?

  Oh, okay.

• 2:20:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, he was there with his new turkey book.

• 2:20:57Steven Rinella?

  Dude, you guys, I feel like you guys would be like, you guys be like nuts on a dog.

• 2:21:01Speaker 06

  I screwed the whole thing up because he was here the other week.

• 2:21:04Speaker 04

  I know, we were joking. We're like, we're ships passing, but we're, we're, we're gonna make plans to hang out.

• 2:21:09Steven Rinella?

  If you guys went to, if you went to each other's restaurants and stuff, you guys would be like, you guys would be like best friends, man.

• 2:21:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, we, we, we kind of became best friends at the show, so we're gonna, we're gonna try and do some stuff together.

• 2:21:19Steven Rinella?

  I feel like you guys would have a great time hanging out.

• 2:21:21Speaker 04

  His books are beautiful. Really cool books.

• 2:21:23Steven Rinella?

  If you ask him about frying stuff and what grease he uses, he'll not say no opinion.

• 2:21:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, what would he say?

• 2:21:30Steven Rinella?

  He likes the beef fat, dude.

• 2:21:31Speaker 04

  Really? Cool.

• 2:21:32Steven Rinella?

  When they do their Friday fish fries.

• 2:21:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:21:35Steven Rinella?

  At, at, uh, Dai Dua.

• 2:21:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:21:38Steven Rinella?

  They, when they do their fish fries, they do their fish fries in beef fat.

• 2:21:42Speaker 04

  That's funny. That's cool. I found like beef tallow is like, it's not waxy, but it's so much thicker than like lard. Yeah.

• 2:21:50Steven Rinella?

  And you know, what's funny about is I keep it in my fryer, but I keep my fryer outside. But I keep it lower than beef fat. And in the winter, like, we just had like negative 20.

• 2:21:57Speaker 04

  Yeah. It's like a rock.

• 2:21:59Steven Rinella?

  Oh, yeah. And like, you turn that thing on, you better turn it on in the morning, man.

• 2:22:05Speaker 04

  Really?

• 2:22:08Steven Rinella?

  I think those, I think those heating elements get a little bit of that shit liquefied, but it takes a while to bring that back to life.

• 2:22:13Speaker 04

  Really?

• 2:22:14Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, when it's just frozen like a brick.

• 2:22:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, you know, I've never done a whole pot of, of beef toe. Um, I definitely, uh, definitely will give that a shot.

• 2:22:22Steven Rinella?

  What else is in the, what, what else in the book do you think of as a highlight? You like the bear ribs?

• 2:22:26Speaker 04

  The bear ribs, definitely the, the fishing's part was fine. There's a lot of fish stuff and, and, uh, there's, I, I started spearfishing recently, so there's some spearfishing stuff in there.

• 2:22:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, just, just, uh, just over the fire thing is prevalent through the whole book. So if you're interested in, in fire cooking, it's, uh, there's some, there's some how to stuff, you know, different types of fire setups.

• 2:22:47Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:48Speaker 04

  And, uh, you know, it doesn't have, you don't have to buy a $5,000 smoker. You can make one with cinder blocks, you know?

• 2:22:54Steven Rinella?

  So if there's a, let's say this, there's a dude that fishes, what's the one hot tip you could give a guy that fishes? You gotta leave, Brody?

• 2:23:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:23:02Steven Rinella?

  Uh, we're gonna wrap up, but go ahead.

• 2:23:03Speaker 04

  Um, I would say just, you know, try doing something different, you know, if, if you'd always take the skin off, you know, try leaving the skin on and frying it, you know, and, and then in a cast iron pan. You know, just, uh, there's all kinds of stuff. I like to just, you know, teach people about how to get more out of their, out of their game, whether it's, you know, bear ribs, where a lot of, a lot of guys leave that stuff or, um, you know, shanks. Uh, so many times I've cooked shanks for outfitters and they're like, we've been feeding these to our dogs for 20 years.

• 2:23:36Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:23:36Speaker 04

  You know, and they just, and, and, and one of them, their wife said, if you can make a ruddy meal deer shanks taste good, like you're welcome anytime. And she couldn't believe it. I, I, I took the sawzall and cut, you know, two inch, uh, ossobuco cuts out of the meal deer I shot. And like, she was dumbfounded that they weren't, you know, stinky, so.

• 2:23:55Steven Rinella?

  Ah, you could.

• 2:23:57Speaker 05

  Cut up any part of that animal and cooked it up, made it good.

• 2:24:00Speaker 04

  But, um, yeah, the, the fishing, so to get back on the, what would I recommend the, the fishing guide? It's, it's like, what, what's out of the realm of, you know, what's out of their comfort zone? And try and teach them something to do that's different.

• 2:24:13Steven Rinella?

  Try to do something new.

• 2:24:14Speaker 04

  Yeah. Like if they fry everything all the time, then try grilling it or try pan searing it or just try something different.

• 2:24:20Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:20Speaker 05

  Have you found that odd? Because you, you came to hunting a little bit later in life, right? Like when you first sort of came, became aware of this idea that there's a lot of hunters out there that aren't using the whole animal or, or maybe even not using an entire animal. Because there's this idea that, oh, rutted up mule deer buck can't taste good because it's been eaten sage or the pronghorn's been eaten sage and it's going to be sagey. Or the thing now that I keep coming back to that we experienced a bunch this winter is the ducks.

• 2:24:53Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 2:24:53Speaker 05

  That a hundred years ago, we nearly extirpated the damn things across our country. And now we shoot them literally just for fun. And multiple outfitters have told me that 90 plus percent of their, their clients would just leave the ducks with them if they were legally allowed to do so.

• 2:25:09Steven Rinella?

  And they were wiped out to go into restaurants.

• 2:25:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, they were wiped out, not because we enjoyed shooting them, but because we enjoyed eating them so much.

• 2:25:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:25:17Speaker 05

  So like when you encountered this.

• 2:25:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:25:20Speaker 05

  As in an adult, like what was your take on that?

• 2:25:23Speaker 04

  It just blew my mind. Like, you know, the family friend that took me turkey hunting for the first time. You know, I saw the way he cleaned his bird. He skinned it, cut out the breast and chucked the rest into the woods.

• 2:25:33Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:34Speaker 04

  And I was like, no, no, like, can you show me how to pluck this? And he like, was like annoyed and it was like, okay. And, uh, and he goes, oh no, don't eat the legs. You can't eat the legs. I was like, what do you mean you can't eat the legs? He's like, oh, they're tough as nails.

• 2:25:45Steven Rinella?

  Like I'll die?

• 2:25:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, like he's like, yeah. And, but you know, he was like a 45 year old Englishman that, that his whole life, you know, he's not a chef. So, you know, telling him to braise it, he would be like, what? Like for how long? Like five hours? No, like, so, you know, I, I get it. I just get a kick out of, you know, teaching people. How to do it, you know, and it's really not that hard and it doesn't take that much extra time and you just shot this turkey and now you keep in these legs that are like three to four pounds of extra meat. Uh, and it's usually well received, you know, people are, are generally surprised in a good way and it's, uh.

• 2:26:20Steven Rinella?

  So if you had to point to a reason to why it's become this way, is it, is it because like for him, it's a lack of cooking skill?

• 2:26:27Speaker 04

  A definitely like, and this culture like.

• 2:26:29Speaker 06

  Culture.

• 2:26:30Speaker 04

  You grew up hunting with your dad and your grandfather and you guys shoot bears as a nuisance and you can't eat bear. That's what you're told.

• 2:26:37Steven Rinella?

  Right.

• 2:26:38Speaker 04

  Like I went the, the first time, not the first time, it's probably one of like third or fourth bears that I ever killed. I went to a friend's hunting camp in Alberta and every single person at that camp had never eaten bear before, but they were at a bear hunting camp and they're just there to have fun and shoot a bear and they keep legally, you have to keep the, the fur.

• 2:26:56Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:56Speaker 04

  In Alberta, you don't have to eat the meat. Um, and they just, yeah, they just grew up thinking that you can't eat bear. So I did bear shanks. I put it in a, a crock pot by the fire. I think this one's actually in the book too. It's served on a paper plate because it was at the camp. It was pretty cool. Um, and I did like polenta, like kind of like grit style and, uh, it was like bear shank, ragu and polenta, like cheap cream, or not cream, um, cheddar cheese polenta, I think. It's like they're, they were, they couldn't believe it. They were just like, we've been hunting bear our whole life and never eaten it.

• 2:27:25Steven Rinella?

  That's Lord's work right there, man.

• 2:27:27Speaker 04

  Yeah. Actually, I had this conversation with Cal when we were turkey hunting, you know, with Danielle a few years back and, uh, he said as an outfitter, other guides would get pissed off when clients wanted to eat, what, because that's way more work now for the guides.

• 2:27:42Steven Rinella?

  Me and Cal cooked bear meat for a bear guide who was blown away.

• 2:27:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:27:49Steven Rinella?

  That it was good.

• 2:27:49Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 2:27:52Speaker 05

  Was that in Jeff's camp?

• 2:27:53Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, we made asa buko, right? Yeah.

• 2:27:56Speaker 04

  The other thing that's funny too is in, is in Texas, those old boys, like you shoot a pig that's over, you know, a hundred and fifty pounds, like you can't eat that.

• 2:28:02Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, sure.

• 2:28:03Speaker 04

  You know, yo, you can't eat that. Get that out of the skinning shed. It's going to stink us up. Like they were adamant that I couldn't eat this hog I shot and it wasn't that big, you know, and they say, oh, that shoulder plate, you know, it's a, that's, that's a. What do they call it? Like it's full of testosterone. Like it's, it's a mature male.

• 2:28:19Steven Rinella?

  So am I, man.

• 2:28:20Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah. And, and then, so I put that thing in a smoke. I brined it overnight. I quartered it. I brined it overnight.

• 2:28:26Speaker 06

  Low tea.

• 2:28:27Speaker 04

  Then I put a, a dry rub on it and I put it in a smoker all day and they loved it. And they were like, what, what is this? I was like, oh, that's that hog. He told me I couldn't eat.

• 2:28:36Steven Rinella?

  I never thought that you could boost your tea with just eating hog.

• 2:28:42Speaker 05

  Yeah. Well, we learned when we trapped all those hogs, I forget who told us, because we were, the one fellow we were with was trapping them and selling them live. You know, just like your farmer guys do. And, uh, the, the, the big hogs like that, because there's that, because of that plate and all, there's actually less yield.

• 2:29:01Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:29:01Speaker 05

  And so it, the price is more expensive per pound, but over in Europe, they actually pay more for it because they prefer.

• 2:29:08Speaker 04

  Interesting.

• 2:29:08Speaker 05

  The high flavor, I think is what, how he, they.

• 2:29:10Steven Rinella?

  There's a, there's a skinning trick on those son of a guns too.

• 2:29:13Speaker 04

  Oh, really?

• 2:29:15Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, then we're going to wrap up, but.

• 2:29:16Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 2:29:18Steven Rinella?

  Okay. Picture you got him hanging by, let's say, well, let's say he's hanging by his hind hocks.

• 2:29:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:29:22Steven Rinella?

  Okay. And you're pulling the hide down.

• 2:29:24Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 2:29:25Steven Rinella?

  When you get to the, when you get to the shield.

• 2:29:27Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 2:29:28Steven Rinella?

  The shield doesn't roll. It's like a dead end street. It's all sudden like the hides pulling over the ribs and it hits the shield and you can't budget. Like it won't roll over.

• 2:29:37Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 2:29:38Steven Rinella?

  So they take, he picture, again, he's hanging from his hocks. You run a couple vert, you run a couple vertical cuts through the shield.

• 2:29:50Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 2:29:51Steven Rinella?

  So the shield is now basically running in parallel vertical strips, three or four inches wide.

• 2:29:57Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 2:29:58Steven Rinella?

  Those will roll.

• 2:29:59Speaker 04

  Interesting.

• 2:30:00Steven Rinella?

  But also, right down. That noise I made was speed.

• 2:30:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:30:04Steven Rinella?

  That noise I made was meant to denote.

• 2:30:06Speaker 05

  Speed skinning.

• 2:30:07Speaker 04

  Good to know.

• 2:30:08Steven Rinella?

  Speed skinning. Yeah. It was genius.

• 2:30:10Speaker 04

  That's cool.

• 2:30:10Steven Rinella?

  Genius. Cut. Don't you remember that, Yanni?

• 2:30:12Speaker 05

  I don't.

• 2:30:12Steven Rinella?

  You were standing right there.

• 2:30:13Speaker 05

  I don't remember that. Do we cover that in that episode?

• 2:30:15Steven Rinella?

  I don't know.

• 2:30:16Speaker 04

  And he just did it from the top, like from through the fur kind of thing?

• 2:30:19Steven Rinella?

  Yep. He just got down to that shield and then just gash, like cut the shield into slits and then he can skin each slit down. Just the whole thing won't roll.

• 2:30:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:30:28Speaker 05

  Clayton.

• 2:30:28Steven Rinella?

  It was those boys that were showing us that.

• 2:30:32Speaker 05

  I feel like we made a mistake. We didn't include that in that episode.

• 2:30:35Steven Rinella?

  Maybe he was hanging out with some different Texas dudes, but I don't think so.

• 2:30:42Steven Rinella?

  Maybe Jesse showed me that.

• 2:30:43Speaker 05

  Maybe.

• 2:30:44Steven Rinella?

  No, either way, little tripped tip, ah, tip.

• 2:30:47Speaker 05

  Hot tip.

• 2:30:48Speaker 04

  It's a good one.

• 2:30:49Steven Rinella?

  Alright, man, so they can find you at your restaurant, go to Antlers in Toronto.

• 2:30:52Speaker 04

  Yep, Antler Restaurant in Toronto, at thehunterchef.com, we'll post the pre-sale link for the book.

• 2:31:00Speaker 04

  There's like, you know, Indigo Chapters, all those stores, but I'll put the main kind of pre-sale link on my website.

• 2:31:05Steven Rinella?

  You can buy the book in the store, I hope.

• 2:31:07Speaker 04

  You buy it, yeah, the books are available in the restaurant, we ship signed copies from the restaurant.

• 2:31:12Steven Rinella?

  You can buy them on Amazon.

• 2:31:13Speaker 04

  Amazon's been great.

• 2:31:15Steven Rinella?

  Buy them at bookstores.

• 2:31:16Speaker 04

  All bookstores, and, um, yeah, thanks for having me.

• 2:31:20Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, man, good luck with it.

• 2:31:21Speaker 04

  Appreciate it, thank you so much.

• 2:31:22Speaker 05

  Next time we're in Michigan, maybe we ought to just bebop over the bridge.

• 2:31:26Speaker 04

  I think it's like three hours, we're not far.

• 2:31:28Steven Rinella?

  It's Toronto though, man, yeah, it's a little bit different.

• 2:31:30Speaker 04

  It's three hours, yeah, it's not far.

• 2:31:31Speaker 05

  It's not that.

• 2:31:31Speaker 04

  Do you guys ever do anything in?

• 2:31:32Speaker 05

  Was it three hours from Detroit?

• 2:31:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, Detroit.

• 2:31:34Steven Rinella?

  That's quick, yeah.

• 2:31:36Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:31:37Speaker 04

  I would love to have you guys, it'd be great.

• 2:31:39Steven Rinella?

  That'd be fun.

• 2:31:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, if you come up anytime in a season, we could shoot some ducks or turkeys or whatever.

• 2:31:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, I wonder how hard it'd be to get a turkey license over there in Ontario.

• 2:31:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, until Ontario, we have some of the.

• 2:31:49Speaker 05

  For non-residents?

• 2:31:50Steven Rinella?

  The Joe Blow Americans can do it?

• 2:31:51Speaker 04

  It's like, everything's over the counter, except for maybe moose is difficult as a non-resident, I have to look into that one, but turkeys, deer, ducks, everything's over the counter.

• 2:31:59Steven Rinella?

  Joe.

• 2:31:59Speaker 04

  Non-resident.

• 2:32:01Speaker 05

  If we annex Canada, it's gonna change the whole chasing 50 thing, you know, cause.

• 2:32:06Steven Rinella?

  Chasing 51. But here's the thing they hadn't thought about when they go annex Canada, I was reading this. They're gonna, we're gonna take it over and make it a new state, but it's gonna be a blue state. They hadn't thought about that.

• 2:32:18Speaker 04

  No.

• 2:32:18Steven Rinella?

  It's a blue state.

• 2:32:21Steven Rinella?

  So here they are. Yeah, so here they are, they're gonna go take it over.

• 2:32:24Speaker 05

  Extreme right lands left of our left.

• 2:32:27Steven Rinella?

  They're gonna be like, son of a bitch, I haven't thought of that.

• 2:32:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:32:30Steven Rinella?

  Now they're all voting for Democrats, I wouldn't, if I'd have known that, I wouldn't have invaded them.

• 2:32:34Speaker 04

  And you gotta take, you gotta take Quebec with it too, so a lot of electoral votes. I love Quebec, but I'm just saying.

• 2:32:39Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, they had.

• 2:32:40Speaker 04

  There's French people.

• 2:32:41Steven Rinella?

  They have.

• 2:32:41Speaker 04

  There's a whole lot of French people there, too.

• 2:32:42Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, it's like, careful what you wish for when you invade Canada, man. Um, yeah, I hope shit don't get tense between us if that happens.

• 2:32:51Speaker 04

  No.

• 2:32:51Steven Rinella?

  Okay, we'll stay friendly.

• 2:32:53Speaker 04

  I love the States.

• 2:32:53Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 2:32:54Speaker 04

  So.

• 2:32:55Steven Rinella?

  Thanks for coming on. Tell everybody the name of your book.

• 2:32:57Speaker 04

  Uh, the, it's Hunter Chef in the Wild, uh, so available at thehunterchef.com. I'm thehunterchef.com or at thehunterchef everywhere. Uh, and all the socials for the restaurant are Antler Kitchen Bar.

• 2:33:10Steven Rinella?

  I want to go to that restaurant. We'll check it out.

• 2:33:13Speaker 04

  Field trip. Good. We're an hour and a half from Buffalo. If you guys ever do a show in Buffalo.

• 2:33:16Steven Rinella?

  Oh, that's a good way to put it.

• 2:33:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:33:17Steven Rinella?

  Oh.

• 2:33:19Speaker 04

  People like, I tell people that their like heads explode. Like, what? I'm like, yeah, we're an hour and a half.

• 2:33:24Steven Rinella?

  Drive up there for dinner. Yeah.

• 2:33:26Speaker 05

  Oh, man.

• 2:33:27Speaker 04

  We do. We get, we get folks from Buffalo. They're just drive up.

• 2:33:30Speaker 05

  Listen, I, I, I'm not like taking myself out of it, but I think we as Americans have like our geography ends in two places, north and south.

• 2:33:40Speaker 04

  Well, let me bring this full circle.

• 2:33:42Steven Rinella?

  I can't remember whose quote it was, but there was a quote is, um, war is how Americans learn geography. So, coming up, we will have. Americans will have a very good sense of, uh, Canadian geography.

• 2:33:58Steven Rinella?

  All right. Thanks for coming on.

• 2:33:59Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 2:34:00Steven Rinella?

  Appreciate it.

• 2:34:00Speaker 04

  Thanks, Michael. Thanks, guys.

• 2:34:29Steven Rinella?

  I'll tell you one thing that binds together all of the vehicles in the Rinella fleet at my house. They all have WeatherTech floor liners. When we get a new car, the first thing we do, out with the junky factory carpet mats in with WeatherTech. They really are the best. They're indestructible. You can pull them out, hose them off. It doesn't matter what. Happens on the floor of your rig. If you've got WeatherTech, you're going to be covered. I love these things. If you're looking to get a great gift for someone, especially if they're a big time outdoors kind of person, like if you really want to do them a favor, get them some WeatherTech floor liners for their truck or car. They'll have a way easier time keeping their rig nice and clean and they'll get years and years of use out of a set.

• 2:35:14Steven Rinella?

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• 2:35:51Speaker 02

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• 2:36:06Steven Rinella?

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• 2:36:47Steven Rinella?

  That's O-K-E-E-F-F-E-S company.com for guaranteed relief. O'Keefe's Working Hands. It works good.

• 2:36:56Speaker 00

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