#1360 Cyrus Shirazi | Early Bitcoin Investor Building MASSIVE Company

Cyrus Shirazi is the Founder & CEO of Haven, a brand new company that is dedicated to focusing on exactly to solve all your accounting needs as a startup founder or business owner. In this conversation, we talk about how to build a venture scalable business with a service, why being profitable early on is a huge advantage, identifying great talent, operational structure, evaluating customers, and long-term vision for Haven. ======================= Introducing Espresso - the world’s most interactive portable display. They have a portable screen that is incredibly light, comes with a nice stand, and the user interface is very easy. Anyone who listens to this podcast can go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠us.espres.so/pomp⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. They have a brand new offer waiting for you. ======================= BetOnline.ag is a proud sponsor of the the Pomp Podcast. Use crypto to bet on sports, play poker and enjoy casino games at BetOnline. Visit https://promotions.betonline.ag/pomp and use promo code POMP100 to receive a 100% matching bonus on any crypto deposit. BetOnline boasts no crypto transaction fees, and processing is anonymous, instantaneous and secure. ======================= Pomp writes a daily letter to over 265,000+ investors about business, technology, and finance. He breaks down complex topics into easy-to-understand language while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at https://pomp.substack.com/ ======================= View 10k+ open startup jobs: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://dreamstartupjob.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Enroll in my Crypto Academy: https://www.thecryptoacademy.io/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Many of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, which is my effort to find the most interesting people in the world and sit with them for hours while I ask questions in an effort to learn. So it would mean the world to me if you would subscribe to the show on your favorite audio platform, watch episodes on YouTube, and tell your friends and family about the podcast. My goal is to help millions learn from the world's most interesting people. So let's get into today's episode. Today's episode is with Cyrus Shirazi. He's the founder and CEO of Haven, a brand new company that is dedicated to focusing on exactly how to solve all of your accounting needs as a startup founder or business owner. Their whole idea is to over-index on quality, talk to their customers a lot,

• 0:46Anthony Pompliano?

  and make sure that they provide the best customer service in the industry. I've invested in Haven and I'm incredibly impressed by Cyrus and his team. In this conversation, we talk about how to build a venture scalable business with a service, not an actual technology product, and why being profitable early on may actually be a huge advantage for a company like this. This conversation is very overarching on a number of different topics that startup founders constantly think about, including how to identify great talent, what they're doing operationally to be efficient and effective, how they can actually identify whether a customer is good or not, and what exactly Cyrus's long-term vision for this company is. I really hope you guys enjoy this conversation. Here is my episode with Cyrus Shirazi.

• 1:27Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 1:51Anthony Pompliano?

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• 2:36Anthony Pompliano?

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• 3:20Anthony Pompliano?

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• 4:04Anthony Pompliano?

  BetOnline, the game starts here. BetOnline.ag, go check them out today. All right, guys. Bang, bang. Cyrus, I thought a great place. To start this conversation is you got a really interesting background. Obviously, you've got the accounting understanding. You're a crypto native. You've been into Bitcoin and cryptocurrency since 2016. But also, you've been into early startups and it feels like a lot of these different experiences in your life are coming together here. And you all want to build a accounting service that is venture backable, that is profitable for startups. That sounds like a death mission. That sounds like pulling all the things together that are impossible to do. But you guys are doing it and it seems to be working so far. So maybe describe a little bit like what are the problems that these early stage startups

• 4:48Anthony Pompliano?

  are experiencing on the accounting side and like, why are traditional accounting firms not really able to solve it for them?

• 4:55Speaker 03

  Yeah. So first and foremost, the reason I love this space so much is because it's the great art of empires. What I mean by that is basically no one's reached like their maximum potential in this industry. You can look at all the other players. But why do I get out of bed every day to do what I do? Because I love working with founders and I'm obsessed. I'll probably die five to 10 years sooner than I otherwise would have because I'm always on. Whether it's Friday night, Saturday morning, Saturday night, I'm always there for the customer. And we're building in like a really, really hard space. And how are we doing it better than everyone else? We're just over indexing on providing like an exceptional service quality. I think that an incremental advantage that businesses kind of shy away from or have forgotten about is customer service when it comes to financial services specifically, especially in accounting.

• 5:39Speaker 03

  And the reason I ultimately launched even as like a full stack firm is because I talked to probably close to, if not more than a thousand founders in 2023 and heard the same theme from all of them. My accountant won't answer my calls. They never get back to me on time. They don't get things done on time. And I was so personally frustrated by that. And then I was like, let's do it. And took it into market in August of 2023. We had roughly five customers. And as things stand today, we have 117 without raising a dollar up until a few weeks ago. And yeah.

• 6:14Anthony Pompliano?

  And so when we talk about accounting services for Sharps, like what are you doing on a day-to-day basis? Are you literally just like counting revenue, counting profit, counting losses, you know, doing traditional accounting or are there other aspects to it?

• 6:24Speaker 03

  It's really more about being a trusted partner for them. When you're a founder and you're in this unknown world of kind of building a company, especially for the first time, you have no idea what it means to kind of like handle your accounting, handle your payroll tax registrations, handle kind of like your AD3Bs, how do you optimize for QSBS? And all those little things ultimately compound to be really, really important for a business. As a founder, if you take advantage of QSBS, you can save roughly up to $10 million in tax free gains when you sell your company. And so not only do we do daily accounting, weekly accounting, monthly accounting for all our clients and ship their books faster than anyone, but we're a trusted partner that's there for them. So every single client of ours has a dedicated Slack channel or another medium if they prefer it,

• 7:09Speaker 03

  i.e. Telegram or Discord for our perdonative clients. And we're just always there. I pride ourselves on being the most responsive firm kind of like in the entire market. And previously in my career, I worked with some folks from Goldman Sachs and Goldman has a mantra of responding to clients within 15 minutes, no matter fucking what. And we're covering the same thought behavior and I basically instilled that culture within our team. And no matter if we don't have an, whether or not we have an answer to a client's question in real time, we're going to get that answer, but we're going to let them know in real time that we're there for them. We're proactively here helping, supporting them, et cetera, and just guiding them along the journey. There's so many things that they don't know and there's so many things that they don't need to deal with. And the most important thing for them to do is spend all their time on product and growth. And we help alleviate a lot of the other burdens that they kind of like need to undertake

• 7:54Speaker 03

  as a business owner and as a founder. And that's us.

• 7:57Anthony Pompliano?

  So when you think about doing that, that sounds like a great mission. Obviously, you know, there's this over indexing on quality or kind of customer service. How do you do it? It's one thing to say, we're going to respond to everyone in 15 minutes. But obviously you've got to either build systems or you've got to have, you know, a gazillion employees or like, what is the secret sauce to being able to do this?

• 8:15Speaker 03

  It's really a process oriented approach. So you set up incentive structures internally for your team that basically prompt them to ensure we have the highest NPS in the accounting industry, no matter what. And what I mean by that is basically a bonus structure that ensures that if our team has responded to clients faster than anyone else in the world, they're going to get compensated for it. And setting that up from day one so that the team is highly, highly incentivized to ensure that we prioritize the customer above all else. And in addition to that, there's also like using modern technology to kind of like automate a lot of the mundane, repetitive, laborious components involved in running a firm like this. So we've got tens, hundreds of ideas around how to automate a lot of the workflows that are involved in kind

• 8:58Speaker 03

  of like running an accounting firm. Everything from programmatically sending out statements and financials at scale, the click of a button, to programmatically being able to have clients provide us with descriptions to transactions that we don't have to categorize because they didn't have a label, programmatically being able to data match and handle reconciliation in an autonomous fashion so that we can get books to clients faster than anyone else. So it's a higher rate approach of building an exceptional team and incentivizing them accordingly, and then building technology to be able to support that.

• 9:28Anthony Pompliano?

  Now, you said that you guys raised money. I gave you some money. A lot of other people gave you money. But it's weird. You want to build a venture scalable business, but you're profitable and you're doing a service. So talk about how you think about those three things mixing together. Like what are, taking three ingredients and creating, you know, the final meal. How do you do it?

• 9:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I've spent my entire career in startups. Was the first business hire at Meow, was roughly employee forty-five at Main Street, which is a tax credit company. And while I was there, got an opportunity to work with hundreds of amazing founders. And so...

• 10:06Speaker 03

  During that journey, I watched so many exceptional founders raise a bunch of money and try to go build a business. And I was like, that's interesting. That's cool. In a lot of instances, 99% of the times, that doesn't work out. And so when I left my job at Meow to build my own company, I wanted to build a very different company than anyone else has like ever built. One where we can write our own destiny. We will be successful whether or not we can raise more money or not. And we have the ability to just revolutionize an industry in a fundamentally different way than ever other business has. And so the reason we're raising money and we raise money, even though we're profitable is because if you want to build a fucking massive business, man, you better have people in your corner who can help you kind of open all those doors, bang down all those doors.

• 10:51Speaker 03

  We need to get into every single ecosystem in front of every single founder, in front of every single entrepreneur. And the only way to do that at the end of the day is to weaponize or to incentivize amazing people across a variety of different ecosystems to help you truly revolutionize the way that a mundane, repetitive, laborious industry has been run for the past 100 plus years. And so to make a long story short, the reason we're raising is because we want to build a fucking huge business and we want people in our corner to help us do that.

• 11:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Talk a little bit as to kind of traditional, you know, infrastructure, software and kind of products mixed with kind of crypto, right? You obviously, you were at Meow, that a lot of the crypto industry sees kind of the changing of a currency, the changing of these payment rails, also maybe even like the automation and AI that's now coming into the space. Like, how do you view some of these kind of frontier technologies?

• 11:44Speaker 03

  Great question. So this is core to kind of the way that we're building Kaven. So we're not going to be a platform that is agnostic on top of just BitBooks or agnostic on top of just Zero or agnostic on top of just NetSuite or agnostic on top of just Bitwaves or Integral or other crypto accounting related tools. Our platform is going to be built on top of all of those different tools. And so we're going to be able to provide an experience for clients at scale that puts their mind at ease and enables them to get back to doing like what matters most, which is building their business. Focusing on product and focusing on their customers and crypto is just one part of that. And it's also a really important part to us personally, me and my co-founder specifically.

• 12:23Speaker 03

  We've been in crypto since 2016 and we've loved it basically as long as we can remember since like we first found out about it. When I was in college with my roommates, never actually got it off the ground, but we were ideating on creating like a crypto hedge fund. And had a blast with it and we have tons of crypto clients as things stand today. Companies like Parcel, Antible Labs and many others. And I think a lot of people for better or worse shy away from working with the industry. But it is the new frontier of traditional, uh, or just financial services in general. And if you don't appeal to kind of like that market, you're just hindering your TAM drastically. And if you don't have crypto native people on your team as things stand today and you're building in fintech, man, oh, man, that's a big mistake.

• 13:07Speaker 03

  Because it is going to change the future of financials.

• 13:10Anthony Pompliano?

  Let's talk about kind of your longer term vision and then we'll talk about what you're actually doing from an operations standpoint today. But what does this look like in 10 years if you're successful?

• 13:19Speaker 03

  So in 10 years if we're successful, we've dominated the world of tax, not just in the U.S., but globally. So unlike every other accounting firm or accounting startup, I should say, whether it's Pilot or Zenni or some of these other players, they don't do global account. What do I mean by that? They don't help their domestic clients who have subsidiaries across the world with the accounting for those subsidiaries. And so our competitive wedge to the market is basically we do global accounting. So we handle the subsidiaries of our clients that are in Australia or in like the UK. We handle all of the accounting there and then push it together from a consolidation perspective with their U.S. financials.

• 14:02Speaker 03

  So that we give them the ability to have one firm, one point of contact to manage all your financials end to end. And how do we get to do that? Uh, I was lucky enough to convince an awesome guy named Scott Clark, who was the first accounting manager ever at Pinterest and the VP of Finance and Corporate Controller at Xennovich. And the VP of Finance and Corporate Controller at Lime, who, when he was at Lime, did international accounting for a business that had 50 plus international entities. And knows this stuff like the back of his hand and has given us a big leg up when it comes to differentiating ourselves against like the competition. And if you look at it. Gusto and Deal. Gusto would probably be a 20, 30 billion dollar company today if they had decided to go into the global payroll market much earlier. Now, I think they're leveraging remote under the hood to kind of like offer global payroll, EOR services.

• 14:45Speaker 03

  But the huge untapped market, and especially if the world's becoming increasingly remote, it's something we want to take advantage of. And we're going to set ourselves up for a ton of success because the best businesses in the world have global teams. You look at all the Fortune 100 companies, they have offices all over the world. And then the other thing to note is that across America, accounting is relatively a dying industry. The number of CPAs per year is substantially less than it used to be. And a lot of the mom and pop CPAs across America are run by elder folks in their latter years of their career, and they don't have any opportunity for an burnout, or a roll up, or an exit. And a player like us coming into the fold, who will ultimately raise like a large debt

• 15:29Speaker 03

  facility to go after folks like that, and give them the opportunity to have a liquidity event, and set themselves up for the rest of their lives, while also giving their clients a home, or a new home, that is extremely technologically efficient, and very tech forward, to let them get back to doing what matters most, which is building their business and focusing on product.

• 15:48Anthony Pompliano?

  As you go after this vision, obviously, you've got to be able to operate the business. It's very up-tempo, kind of accelerated view of building and servicing these clients. What are some of the things that you all do that maybe would be different or unique in most people's eyes that you think really has allowed you to optimize and operate in this way?

• 16:08Speaker 03

  And number one is customer service. We're maniable about it. It is the one thing that matters most. If we don't know an answer to a client's question, we're 100% going to respond to them as fast as humanly possible to let them know we're on it, and we're going to get them an answer. None of them knows the answer in real time, but we basically want to get rid of the days where accountants and CPAs and tax professionals don't answer their clients because they're too busy. They don't know the answer in real time. They need to go look it up. They need to talk to one of their partners. And I think that when you're in the financial services world, and you don't provide an exceptional level of customer service, you start to let doubt set into the mind of your clients. If you touch your, if you touch someone's money in any capacity, and... You don't respond to them.

• 16:51Speaker 03

  The thoughts that start to trickle into their head are, are my taxes being hit? Are my finances okay? Are my books going to get done on time? Are my franchise taxes going to be handled? And you've lost trust in that moment. And the most core fundamental element of financial services and providing exceptional financial services is providing an exceptional service quality. And not forgetting that these two are people on both ends of the table and making sure that you keep that top of mind for every step of the equation.

• 17:22Anthony Pompliano?

  And then what about like internal operations, right? Are there certain things you guys do around meetings? A certain way that you kind of organize your day or a certain way you all communicate that really empowers this?

• 17:33Speaker 03

  Good question. So we've built a lot of workflows within our Slack channels that connect to all of our different systems and tools to, I'm not going to call it autonomously, but to some level programmatically enable us to onboard clients at scale in a frictionless manner, get them onboarded faster than they otherwise would have with like another partner. And we built out robust onboarding flows which collect as much information as humanly possible from the client. So there's much less friction when it comes to onboarding clients into like our practice. And so that's like one core element to what we do. And then we build out internal knowledge bases which detail basically any and all client questions historically so that when a new client asks the same question, even if our team doesn't know the answer or hasn't encountered that question before, they can go to our internal

• 18:18Speaker 03

  knowledge repo and get an answer to that question and provide it to them. And so doing things like that is going to enable our team to provide a really, really high quality of service at scale for startups, SMBs, companies all across America. And yeah.

• 18:34Anthony Pompliano?

  And then when you think about the people that you're bringing on to the team, how do you vet, you know, who's got what it takes? How do you know this is a person that we want inside the company, is going to protect our company culture and help us achieve our vision?

• 18:46Speaker 03

  The two most important things that optimize for when hiring people is trust and hunger. And determining trust is definitely tough. But there's a few different ways to do it. You basically fact check who they are, what they've done, what their work experience has been with their previous employers. And then, but the most important thing that I index on is hunger. And the way that I sniff for that is really just a person to person. Can I smell it on you? And typically, within five minutes, I have the ability to determine, does this person have the chops, have the hunger to

• 19:27Speaker 03

  put all their chips on the table and really get into the weeds and help us build the trillion dollar company? And there's other little tips and tricks, like cold calling people on the weekend who are in your hiring process to see if they'll answer and see how fast they'll respond. And calling them at random times to understand what moves them, what makes them tick, how hungry are they? And aside from that, every other skill in my mind is pretty teachable. And once we find people who have those two characteristics, we are of the belief that we can train them and teach them how to do everything else to a really, really high bar. But it's really just a top-down approach when it comes to hiring and finding great people.

• 20:08Speaker 03

  Are you maniacal, obsessed about not only like your company as a founder, but about the type of employees and people that you hire? And I think obsessive maniacal people attract those types of people. And it's not for everyone, but you can sniff that when you're going through an interview process. Are there specific things people say or do? Like, like, how do you figure out, is this person that obsessed maniacal person? So I just hired our first growth lead. He's basically going to be a startup athlete. What I mean by that, he's going to do everything from growth to ops to finance, to sales, partnership, et cetera.

• 20:51Speaker 03

  And when I was interviewing him, albeit he came through a very trusted partner and friend and investor in Haven. But he told me the story of when he was interviewing for a former role where They asked him if he really, really wanted and what did he do? The kids flew to New York and waited outside their office. Email them and said, outside your office, let's chat. And he got an offer basically like the next day or that day. And when I met him and he told me that story, I was like, you're cut from the same cloth as I am. And it's those little things that you pick up on, that you understand, that you see, that people say, that really impress upon you how maniacal, how hungry, how obsessed they are.

• 21:37Speaker 03

  But it's not a one size fits all sort of thing. It's really context dependent. Everyone's different. Everyone has their own level of hunger, their own level of obsession. And it's just how good are you as a founder or like a hiring manager to isolate and figure that out?

• 21:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, that makes, that makes a lot of sense. And then as you evaluate customers, is it just like every customer is a fit? Or is there some sort of evaluation framework there to know that, you know, you guys operate a certain way? And so you need specific types of customers to kind of fit in there and be a good service partner?

• 22:12Speaker 03

  Great question. So at the onset of working with a client, we do what I like to call an analysis. If they're a full-fledged operating business, that's not like brand new. And that involves typically getting access to their QuickBooks, doing an analysis slash review of their historical financials and making sure that they've been done well so that we can take a process over, not only improve it, but also operationalize it, make it more efficient and help them get to the next level of their business. And that basically does weed out some clients from working with us, but it's totally okay. There's what 30 million plus small businesses, SMB startups, et cetera, in America. And

• 22:58Speaker 03

  One that we can't work with just leaves a giant ocean for us to go after. But at the earliest stages, when a company is just getting started, they don't have any accounting or bookkeeping infrastructure in place. We can pretty much work with literally anyone. Why? Because there hasn't been any bad habits or bad accounting processes implemented, which would hinder a firm like us from taking things over and helping them reach their maximum potential.

• 23:22Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And then in terms of the customers who are a really, really good fit for you, what are you able to do? Do you save them money? Do you save them time? Like, what's kind of the impact? And I always think about this from the perspective of like, how do they measure whether you're being successful? Right? Are there certain metrics that they should be looking at internally for themselves?

• 23:39Speaker 03

  All of the above. We can save them time, money, et cetera. On the saving the money side of things, we help all of our startup clients with the R and D credit. The R and D credit is basically a tax credit implemented by the federal government that enables startups to pay up to $500,000 per year as a payroll credit. What does that mean? You don't need to be profitable. You don't need to generate any income. You don't need to have an income tax liability. You can use the credit to offset your payroll tax liability. Specifically, every time you run payroll, you're paying 7.65% in taxes on behalf of your employees. The way the credit works is going to reimburse you for that. So that's a ton of unknown, like, previously left alone sort of savings

• 24:23Speaker 03

  that we help our clients take advantage of. And then on a monthly cadence, as our team does a review and closes the books for clients, we're analyzing their vendors to determine, okay, maybe this vendor you no longer need because it's redundant across some other vendors that you're using. You can eliminate that from your stack. And then if we notice that clients don't have their idle cash earning interest, we highly recommend that they get their idle cash into T-bills or a money market account, something that's super safe, but also enables them to take advantage of the high interest rate environment that we're in. And then there's other miscellaneous things that pop up when you're building a company. Oh, I just hired a new employee in North Dakota. Do I need to go and register with the Department of State, Department of Labor,

• 25:08Speaker 03

  Department of Revenue in North Dakota? How do I do that? Typically, accounting firms will be like, hey, that's just not what we do. Like, we can't help you. You can go look it up on the internet or something. But we take that as an opportunity to build trust with our clients. So we have the dedicated Slack channel with every single client and encourage them to reach out with any question that pops up, with any business building question that pops up. And that gives them peace of mind when it comes to like working with us, but also enables us to go beyond for each and every single one of them. And yeah, I think that's super important.

• 25:44Anthony Pompliano?

  Talk to us about the fundraise. Who, how much, what details can you share?

• 25:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, so ended up raising our pre-seed roughly. I was targeting 750K over subscribed to basically 800. Why do we raise such a little amount of capital? Because we're profitable and we've been profitable since day one. Even reached over a million dollars in top line, over a million dollars in top line without raising a dollar. And that really set the business up for success for the long term. When we went out to raise, we had $200,000 in idle cash just sitting in the bank waiting to be deployed into growth, product, et cetera, et cetera. And we went out to raise to align strategic partners who can help us get to a whole other level and who can help us get into every single ecosystem in front of every single founder, in front of every single entrepreneur.

• 26:31Speaker 03

  And so we ended up raising from also folks like yourself, Charlie Fang, the founder of Clearco, Eric Baum, the founder of Hustle Fund, Orgrim30, Shriam Krishnan's wife from A16Z, Lauren Isford from Notion, and a bunch of principals, partners, GPs, managing partners at a variety of different venture funds all across the ecosystem. Why? Because those people are talking to founders all day long, all the time. And they then become an extension of the Haven team and family and part of our sales flywheel ecosystem that helps us break down every door, get into every single nook and cranny of the kind of like startup accounting world.

• 27:15Speaker 03

  And yeah, but we'll probably likely go out and raise our seed in the fall. And that's going to come in tandem with a lot of new exciting product developments, things around doing employee taxes and taxes for exec teams. And then ultimately give us 12 to 24 months. We'll probably layer on things like equity planning, liquidity planning, and financial advisory services for businesses and their teams.

• 27:41Anthony Pompliano?

  If you have 30 seconds to pitch potential clients, what's the pitch as to why they should come work with Haven?

• 27:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, so starting from my story, I've been an entrepreneur for as long as I can remember. My dad worked in private equity for about 20 years. I quit his job when I was 12 and I had a court side seat for watching him build all of his companies. And from my dorm room in college, I built my first business. Before I knew what sales or cold calling was, I was looking at businesses on Google Maps and cold calling them, trying to convince them to let me do their social media, social media marketing, build their websites, etc. And I'm an entrepreneur at heart forever. And the reason to come work with Haven is because we're entrepreneurs first, we're an accounting team second. So we know how important it is to move at light speed when it comes to building your business.

• 28:28Speaker 03

  We know how important it is to have a trusted partner who gets everything done on time without delay ever. And so if you want the most maniacal, obsessed, attentive, proactive accounting team for your business, Haven's where you should go and with us.

• 28:44Anthony Pompliano?

  Where can we send people to find Haven on the internet? And then also if they want to follow along with you?

• 28:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, so we're at usehaven.com. And then on Twitter, I'm at Cyrus845. And then on LinkedIn, I'm just Cyrus Shirazi. And yeah, and then on Twitter, our Twitter handle is usehaven.com. I'm sorry, just use Haven and.

• 29:06Anthony Pompliano?

  Awesome. I'm excited to see what you guys build. Obviously a big fan. I've been telling every company I know, hey, go check this out. And hopefully some of the folks who run companies that are listening to this right now, they'll come and knock on your door. You guys can provide a great service and you'll build a great big business. So I appreciate you coming on and we'll definitely do this again in the future.

• 29:26Speaker 03

  Thank you, my friend. Appreciate it. It was great to be here.