MISSING: Zelig Williams

A rising Broadway star. A mysterious SOS alert. And a car left abandoned at a trailhead wrecked by Hurricane Helene. When 28-year-old Zelig Williams vanishes on October 3rd, 2023, there’s no sign of a crash, his phone, or him. Is this the result of a mental health emergency, a tragic accident or did someone lure Zelig into the woods, never intending to let him leave?

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ashley Flowers?

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• 0:45Ashley Flowers?

  So if price was ever stopping you before, you're officially out of excuses. Remove the guesswork with Ladder and get a real coach in your ear telling you exactly what to do for every workout. No thinking, everything planned for you. If you have an iPhone, head to ladder.fit/crimejunkie and take a quick quiz to find your perfect ladder plan. Use my link and get a free seven-day trial with no credit card and $10 off your first month if you join. Hi, Crime Junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers.

• 1:15Speaker 01

  And I'm Brett.

• 1:16Ashley Flowers?

  And the story I have for you today is about a 28-year-old Broadway star leaving home on a seemingly normal day. And the only alert that something is wrong is an SOS crash alert sent from his phone. Except, there is no crash scene. His phone is nowhere to be found. And neither is he. This is the story of Zelig Williams.

• 2:11Ashley Flowers?

  It's around 10 o'clock in the morning on October 3rd, 2024, when Kathy Williams' phone starts buzzing with a New York number that she doesn't recognize. Now, it's not all that weird. She's in South Carolina, but her 28-year-old son, Zelig, used to live in New York. She knows it's not him because he'd recently moved back to South Carolina and is living with her. I mean, she just saw him less than 20 minutes ago, leaving with his headshots in hand. She thought he was going to make copies. So she answers the phone anyways, and it is one of her son's friends asking if he's okay. And she's like, "What do you mean?" And they tell her they just got an SOS notification that he had been in a wreck. Now, she doesn't need to hear anything more. She hangs up and she is out the door immediately, heading straight for the Staples, 5 miles up the road,

• 2:56Ashley Flowers?

  where she thinks he was going to make copies. But she gets there, and there's no sign of him. So she gets back in touch with that friend that called her, and they tell her, "No, no, no, no. The SOS ping didn't come from nearby the house or Staples or whatever. The location that came through was from 20 minutes away on a road outside of a place called Angel's Diner."

• 3:17Speaker 01

  And why are friends in New York getting these notifications when he's in South Carolina?

• 3:22Ashley Flowers?

  Well, like I said, he'd just moved back there, and he had been living in New York, working on Broadway before. And truly, he was in some huge musicals: Hamilton, MJ the Musical, Hugh Jackman's World Tour. But he came back because his grandmother had recently passed, so he'd been staying with his mom. I'm assuming he just hadn't, like, updated his emergency contacts in his phone yet. So anyways, she drives over to this diner next, expecting to pull up to a crash scene.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:48Ashley Flowers?

  But there is nothing. No sign of Zelig, his car, or any crash at all. Kathy doesn't even know what to make of this. So she goes into the diner and talks to somebody inside, asking them if they had seen her son. No one has. She's worried, she's confused, but Kathy doesn't know what else to do. All the calls she's making to his phone are going unanswered. So she feels like her best bet is to just go back home and wait for him to show up. But the afternoon passes, and then evening comes, and Zelig still isn't home. At this point, Kathy is already thinking about reporting him missing. Now, she doesn't know if she needs to wait 24 hours, but when 11:00 PM rolls around, she doesn't care.

• 4:33Ashley Flowers?

  She's calling police. But it is not the potential 24-hour waiting period that trips things up. As soon as they hear that Zelig just turned 28, they're like, "Oh, well, you know, he's probably just out celebrating his birthday. He's fine." And she's like, "No, no, no, you're not understanding. His birthday was back in September. He's not just like some young adult out partying. Like, something happened to him."

• 4:56Speaker 01

  I mean, are they not concerned about the SOS ping?

• 4:58Ashley Flowers?

  Well, no, because there was no accident where it pinged. So they're sure this is just a mistake. He's out having a good time. And they tell her to just wait it out, call him back if he doesn't show up, which is exactly what she does. The very next day, on October 4th, she calls police again to report Zelig missing. And now, police actually take the report. Our records request to the Richland County Sheriff's Department got denied, but they did answer some questions, which is how I know that police began searching local areas for Zelig that same day. And around 11:00 PM, they do find a vehicle matching the description of the one that Zelig drove off in. It was his mom's car, a red Ford Escape.

• 5:40Ashley Flowers?

  It had seemingly been abandoned in this little parking lot off a trailhead called Palmetto Trail. And when police run the plates of this car, sure enough, it's Zelig's mom's, and they confirm that's the car that he left her house in. Now, this trailhead is like 30 minutes from where Zelig and his mom live. And there is at least one route to get there from his mom's house that takes you right past Angel's Diner, where that phone did the SOS ping. Now, there's no sign of a struggle at this car. There's no blood or anything. But the idea that he just came here for a nice leisurely hike doesn't sit well with anyone. Because when police contact his mom to tell her that they found the car, she says that wasn't a place that, like, she knew him to go to. I mean, sure, he enjoyed being outdoors, but like,

• 6:24Ashley Flowers?

  he wasn't known to visit this trail specifically.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  Right, like, this wasn't his place to go, to be outdoors.

• 6:28Ashley Flowers?

  Yeah, and honestly, the trail isn't even in hiking condition at that point. Hurricane Helene had just come through. A week before, and so there is a ton of flooding and downed trees. But if he did try and hike, okay, like again, we don't know what's going on at this point. They're willing to try anything. They're like, okay, maybe he did. He got in trouble. He's stuck out there somewhere. So police find a park ranger who had been patrolling the area the day before. He was out checking for like damages and basically trying to get the trail open and manageable for people. And they talked to him. And while he didn't find anyone injured or come in contact with anyone who matched Zelig's description, he did have a really interesting story that could be relevant.

• 7:11Ashley Flowers?

  He tells police that around noon the day before, he was unloading his four wheeler in the parking lot when this guy flags him down. And this guy's like coming back in from the trail. And the guy on the trail tells the ranger that he had been driving toward the trailhead when he passed this red sedan on the road. The car turned around, followed him into the trail's parking lot. And when he parked, a guy got out of the car. A guy that they're thinking is Zelig. And he started following the man down the trail. But not just like walking behind him. He was acting super erratic, dancing as he stripped off all of his clothes and threw them around. By the time they reached this bridge over the watery river on the trail,

• 7:56Ashley Flowers?

  the guy was, the guy behind him was like fully naked, dancing on the railing. Which, by the way, the way that like men get to operate in the world is so foreign to me. Like, not even the naked dancing part, like this guy who is being followed by a naked dancing guy. This bridge is like less than a mile to the trail, but still like.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  The fact that he's just like, okay, I'm just gonna let, like, keep going.

• 8:18Ashley Flowers?

  I wouldn't even get out of my car if a car followed me into the parking lot after turning around.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  Absolutely not.

• 8:23Ashley Flowers?

  Yeah, so he's followed all the way to this bridge. And then I guess he, at that point, just has enough because he said he just turns around and comes back. And I don't know if he was waiting for someone else to show up to report this incident or like the timing was just perfect or what. But that's when he like runs into the ranger.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, like if he didn't run into the ranger. Like right now, would he have said anything to anyone? Would we even know?

• 8:48Ashley Flowers?

  Exactly.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  That Zelig was in the park at all, outside the car being found at that trailhead parking lot?

• 8:53Ashley Flowers?

  Yeah, it's again, is this happenstance? Is the timing perfect or was he waiting for him?

• 8:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:58Ashley Flowers?

  I don't know. So the ranger says that he gets this story. He decides to go down to the trail and see what he can find. He goes directly to the bridge to see where this naked dancing guy was. But he doesn't see any sign of him, like at all, not even the clothes that he supposedly been throwing. He did see another downed tree though. So he's on a mission. He like takes care of that. And then about an hour later, so it's now around 1:00 PM. He went back to the parking lot and that guy who flagged him down originally was still there. Just like sitting in his car. So the ranger went up to him, tells him like, listen, I didn't find the guy. I don't know how much more of a conversation they had. But the ranger noted that there was one other car in the parking lot.

• 9:43Ashley Flowers?

  The red Ford Escape. And the witness is like, oh yeah, that is the car that he got out of. Probably like, you know, he must be out there somewhere, right? Like his car is still here. But there really wasn't much for anyone to do. The ranger didn't feel like it was urgent enough to run the plate or anything because he wasn't thinking much of it at the time. But he did snap a picture of the car and then he left to do some more trail maintenance. Now, when he comes back to the parking lot at around 2 o'clock, both cars are gone. So for him, in that moment, even more confirmation that this was a big nothing burger.

• 10:19Speaker 01

  Wait, so was that Zelig's car or not?

• 10:22Ashley Flowers?

  Oh, it was definitely his car because they look at the picture that he took and it's his mom's license plate.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  So Zelig is there at noon, not there at 2:00 and comes back at TBD time at some point for the car to be found there at like 11:00 PM on the 4th.

• 10:38Ashley Flowers?

  Did he come back or did just his car? We know his car did. Now it doesn't seem like there's any surveillance in the park or anything like that that could say exactly when the car came back or who was driving. But here's the wild part. If it was him who came and went and came back, he might have done it all buck naked. Because here's the thing I haven't told you. The Ranger never found Zelig's clothes on the trail, right? But police did. When they found his car on the fourth, they found his shoes inside on the driver's side floorboard. And they found the clothes that he had been wearing when he left the house, folded neatly on the driver's seat.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  I don't even know what to make of that. So he goes back, collects all of his clothes back up, and then puts them back on, drives around, comes back, gets naked again, and goes off into the woods?

• 11:37Ashley Flowers?

  Or like I said, he's naked the whole time. But then where was he between leaving the trailhead and then his car arriving back there? Like, and all of this is assuming that the witness's account from the trail is 100% accurate. And he actually did remove all of his clothes the first go around. I don't know, it's so weird and nobody knows what to make of it at the time. Now, without police records, we have to rely on his family's recollection of what happens next. But the family says that investigators download Zelig's car data, and they get his cellphone data from the phone company. And they also check surveillance cameras in the area. And they use it all to create a timeline that just adds to the mystery.

• 12:24Ashley Flowers?

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• 13:07Ashley Flowers?

  Visit sofi.com/crimejunkie to see how much you can save. That's sofi.com/crimejunkie and start making smarter money moves with SoFi. SoFi's student loans are originated by SoFi Bank, N.A., member FDIC. Additional terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891.

• 13:28Ashley Flowers?

  We know that Zelig left home on October 3rd at 9:52 a.m. wearing the clothes that police found in his car. His mom said that he was dressed very casually, like in a t-shirt and slides. But she did say that this wasn't his typical attire, like usually he was a dress up kinda guy. According to phone records that police got, at around 10 a.m. that's when the phone gives off that SOS alert of a crash. The one that his mom says the friend calls about, so that's confirmed. And then an hour after the SOS ping, at 11 o'clock, investigators find surveillance footage that puts Zelig at a gas station somewhere near the diner. He's pumping gas and in the footage, Zelig appears fine. No bruising, no bleeding.

• 14:11Ashley Flowers?

  He doesn't appear to have been in any kind of accident. And I don't think his car is easily seen in the footage. So they don't know the state of that in the footage, but like they find it later and-

• 14:21Speaker 01

  I was gonna say, what was it damaged when they found it in the parking lot? Was there any evidence of an accident like on the actual car?

• 14:27Ashley Flowers?

  No, which makes the SOS alert confusing for everyone.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  And does he have his phone in this surveillance footage?

• 14:33Ashley Flowers?

  Not that anyone has mentioned. So he might have it on him, but I don't think it's actually seen.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  He's not like using it or whatever.

• 14:40Ashley Flowers?

  Right. Now, the next sighting of Zelig is at noon from that guy on the trail. But here's the weird thing. At the exact same time, noon, phone data places Zelig's phone an hour and a half away in a town called Walterboro.

• 14:55Speaker 01

  What was his phone doing between 10 and noon?

• 14:59Ashley Flowers?

  I don't know. Police have not released that information to anyone. But one thing that I'm thinking is that it's possible Zelig and his phone were separated when that 10 a.m. SOS alert happened. Because there's nothing indicating, like I said, they don't see it with him. I said it theoretically could be with him, but even that doesn't make a ton of sense. And they don't think it was with him at the park at all. So after the gas station, he drives to the park, follows the guy into the parking lot.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  Allegedly.

• 15:29Ashley Flowers?

  Allegedly. But then here's the even weirder part. Police told us that the data on his car shows that it leaves- The parking lot at around two, so makes sense with what the ranger saw, it's not there. But then it just drives in loops on like the same road for two hours until it returns at 4pm.

• 15:47Speaker 01

  And then police find it the next day.

• 15:49Ashley Flowers?

  Right.

• 15:50Speaker 01

  Did his phone ping anywhere else that day?

• 15:53Ashley Flowers?

  We don't know, because like I said, like, police won't tell us. Besides that ping in another city, there's no other data they'd share. And by the way, his phone has never been found. And that is where the trail of clues ends. Right back at the Palmetto trailhead. So after the fifth, authorities do an all-out search of the park. Even though his phone didn't ping there, his car being there, that guy who said he saw someone matching his description, they're all pointing to this being where Zelig could have gotten out of his car. So they get a ton of volunteers out in the area, but the park is still not in the safest condition. So, I mean, they bring out ATVs and drones. They try to find evidence of Zelig in the area by any means possible. But the one place they can't search is the river,

• 16:38Ashley Flowers?

  which is one of the places that they think he most likely could be, just based on that guy's sighting of him dancing on the bridge railing. They're wondering if maybe he jumped or he slipped into the water, because it was super high at the time. But they can't bring divers in because of the high water levels.

• 16:54Speaker 01

  I mean, do they think there's a possibility that this was intentional?

• 16:58Ashley Flowers?

  Well, his family did tell us that they were concerned that he was in a vulnerable state before he disappeared. Because after he went missing, his family members found his medication in the house, like meds that he usually takes daily for his mental health. And they say that it seems like he had stopped taking it. And they note something else odd. Very early in the morning, like the day he disappeared, this would have been at 2:30 in the morning. Apparently, he went into his mom's room and woke her up to ask her if she was okay. And she found this odd. She asked him what was going on. He told her he thought he heard something and he wanted to make sure she was all right. But that was apparently the first time ever in his life that he'd done that.

• 17:38Ashley Flowers?

  So knowing, right, like in hindsight, what has happened, like it stands out and it's concerning to them. And I mean, let's be honest, if what- The guy in the trail saw was real, him stripping down and dancing on the bridge railing. I mean, that's not normal behavior. But his family told us it was something that had happened once before when he had a mental health emergency.

• 17:59Speaker 01

  Did it come on that quick the time before? Like, his mom sees him leave in the morning, everything's fine, everything's good, and then boom.

• 18:07Ashley Flowers?

  I mean, anything can happen, but the timeline feels even shorter than that. Because, I mean, when he's pumping gas at 11 o'clock, everything seems

• 18:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 18:14Ashley Flowers?

  fine. I don't know. And the thing I'll say is that his family told us that the one other time that he was in trouble, he had asked for help, like, he knew what was happening to him. So if that's what this was, why wouldn't he ask for help again? And they say that the one other time that this happened, where he did end up naked, he didn't neatly fold his clothes. So they think that's even super odd.

• 18:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's weird to me, too. Like, if you're having a mental health crisis, the guy's story about seeing him stripped down and throws clothes, like, that feels like what I imagine that would manifest like, right?

• 18:50Ashley Flowers?

  Yeah, my thoughts too. But who's to say? And who's to say multiple things can't be true at once? What if he was having a crisis and he encountered foul play? Again, they weren't able to send divers into the river. So I don't think we can disprove that he jumped or maybe had an accident and fell. But I don't know, like, I can't shake the feeling that we are missing pieces.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, did they ever get any more from the guy on the trail, who basically was like the last person to likely have seen Zelig?

• 19:20Ashley Flowers?

  Like, no.

• 19:20Speaker 01

  I feel like he can definitely fill in some gaps, like, after this initial, like, it's barely a report, I don't want to call it a report, to the ranger.

• 19:28Ashley Flowers?

  So this is the thing, I haven't used a name for this guy because they have no idea who this guy is. The ranger, when he, like, got this story, he didn't get this guy's information before the guy left. And when we talked to the ranger, he was like, you know what? Like, the witness did seem kind of off, like, he seemed shook up over something. Which, again, like, someone following you naked into the woods.

• 19:50Speaker 01

  It's a weird situation.

• 19:51Ashley Flowers?

  Yeah.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:52Ashley Flowers?

  But he said like, he just kept getting the impression that this guy wasn't telling him the full story. He felt like more happened between him and Zelig than he was letting on. And he can't pin down exactly why, but he just kept saying like, he just felt like there was more to this situation. Maybe they had an argument, or maybe they'd been in some kind of disagreement. That's just his gut feeling.

• 20:14Speaker 01

  Does he remember what this guy looked like, like a description?

• 20:16Ashley Flowers?

  A little bit. So he said this guy had an accent. He thinks he maybe spoke Spanish, dark hair, olive skin. And he remembered that he was driving a silver or dark gray mini station wagon. And I'm sure he gives that information to police, but it's not clear what they're able to do with that.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  I mean, it's a little wild to me that they never found this guy because so much of what we know about the timeline and Zelig's last movements, it revolves around this sighting.

• 20:42Ashley Flowers?

  Yeah.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  Like, what if none of it is real? Or at least it's not the complete picture, right?

• 20:49Ashley Flowers?

  I think it's a good question. I mean, even when I was thinking it over, like, there's just some things that rubbed me the wrong way. Like, my immediate question is, what is this guy doing out there in general? Like, was his plan to go hiking after a hurricane?

• 21:02Speaker 01

  Well, and him, like, sitting in his car waiting when the ranger comes back an hour later after the ranger's just doing his job.

• 21:09Ashley Flowers?

  What are you waiting for?

• 21:10Speaker 01

  That seems odd to me.

• 21:11Ashley Flowers?

  Same. So maybe this guy is a total rando who happened to be at the right place or wrong place at the right or wrong time, depending on how you look at it. And maybe he just doesn't know police have been looking to speak with him again. I mean, I bet this story is going to be new to a lot of crime junkies who hear it. So maybe word will spread and the message will finally get to him. But, on the other hand, Zelig's family wonders if this wasn't a random encounter at all. Now, this is just a guess of theirs and a bit of a reach. But they told us that Zelig had an audition for a Spanish-speaking role back in July. And so they kind of wondered if maybe he met up with somebody to, like, rehearse or to practice his Spanish.

• 21:53Ashley Flowers?

  This specific guy aside, coming to the park felt intentional when they learned more about his car data. I mean, it showed that Zelig had actually been driving- Driving around the park area the day before he went missing. So maybe he was scoping out the area for a meetup. Because I mean, it's off a major road, but it's just like this small lot with trees around it, not necessarily open. I mean, I certainly wouldn't go there to meet a stranger, but maybe someone I knew. It may be a bit of a stretch, but when you have so little to go off of, you really can't dismiss anything.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you also could be scoping it out if you were considering harming yourself. I mean, like you said, it's like not out in the open. It's kind of off the beaten path.

• 22:34Ashley Flowers?

  Well, true, but that doesn't line up with a mental health crisis that just comes quick out of nowhere. Like, this is the problem with this case, like nothing totally fits.

• 22:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I keep coming back to, like, I'm really hung up on the SOS of it all. Like, that feels like.

• 22:48Ashley Flowers?

  I know.

• 22:48Speaker 01

  It's important because it kind of kicks this whole thing off, but also what does it mean?

• 22:52Ashley Flowers?

  Because it doesn't seem like Zelig was in any kind of actual crash. Nothing was wrong with the car.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 22:58Ashley Flowers?

  And we know for sure he's near the diner pumping gas at 11 o'clock. So going back to that, like, so witness sighting of him on the trail aside, the problem I have with like the phone and the sighting and the SOS, he could not have gotten an hour and a half away by noon for his phone to ping in Walterboro if he's seen at 11 o'clock.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  If he has his phone at that 11 o'clock.

• 23:17Ashley Flowers?

  Right, which is why earlier I said, I have a feeling that when his phone does the SOS at 10 o'clock, that he gets separated from it.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  It either isn't with him or isn't with him after that.

• 23:27Ashley Flowers?

  Yeah, but we know that there wasn't a crash, so I looked up what could cause a phone to send out that alert without an actual crash happening. And I guess it happens sometimes in cases where phones like fall off of cars or dropping your phone from a significant height. So I think your phone falling or like huge movements or some kind of like.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  Like a fast movement and a quick stop.

• 23:47Ashley Flowers?

  Or whatever, yeah, it can trigger that type of alert. And actually, I found out it's been affecting 911 centers across the country because some people have that emergency like set not to call their friends, but to dial 911 automatically.

• 24:00Speaker 01

  Oh, okay. Yeah, that would be.

• 24:03Ashley Flowers?

  A problem.

• 24:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, but talk about all the ways that this SOS alert could trigger. It makes me wonder if he threw his phone or like ditched it and maybe someone picked. Up. That's how it got to that like

• 24:14Ashley Flowers?

  Yeah.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  Hour and a half away distance.

• 24:16Ashley Flowers?

  I mean, whatever happened at 10, he was fine after at 11 o'clock. And listen, let's say he was in crisis. Like, could that explain him throwing his phone out the window or acting erratically and then leaving the park before coming back? And sadly, maybe hurting himself or accidentally falling. Okay, you go down that route. Sure, stuff can make sense. But the folded clothes still throw me off in that scenario. And what the family said that if he was in that state, he would have known it. He would have asked for help like he'd done before.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Well, in that situation, you're saying it's planned and he knew what he was doing. Okay, why fill up your tank before going to die? Like, that doesn't work for me. So what? We either have a mental health crisis or, I don't know, I keep coming back to the guy on the trail knows more.

• 25:04Ashley Flowers?

  But I think that's far from the only two options.

• 25:09Ashley Flowers?

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• 25:52Ashley Flowers?

  Visit sofi.com/crimejunkie to see how much you can save. That's sofi.com/crimejunkie and start making smarter money moves with SoFi. SoFi's student loans are originated by SoFi Bank, N.A., member FDIC. Additional terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891.

• 26:13Ashley Flowers?

  It seems like there was a lot going on in Zelig's life leading up to his disappearance. But this is where the details get a little fuzzy, but where the truth might actually lay. Zelig's family says that he was a really spiritual person, and he was looking into different churches where he could find belonging. And he was also consistently going to a Wednesday night men's group before he disappeared. And after he was gone, they had found a bunch of journals in his room and read through them all. Now, they didn't want to share them with us, but they said that the only thing Zelig was talking about was his search for God's guidance. So in the days leading up to his disappearance, his family says that they think he was fasting, influenced by one of the churches that he was attending.

• 26:57Ashley Flowers?

  But this fast may have had a specific goal, because in some of Zelig's other stories, ones that he was sharing online publicly, he was tagging the "covered by God" church. And some of their preachings include encouraging people to fast to heal their bodies and heal their need for medication by working with the, quote, "great physician."

• 27:19Speaker 01

  Which could maybe be why Zelig possibly had stopped taking his medication.

• 27:24Ashley Flowers?

  Yeah, I'm not sure if he had started fasting already, but if he stopped taking his meds, that could be why. And to me, I mean, that's just generally concerning. I mean, like, it's a pretty dangerous teaching to be telling people who struggle with mental illness to go off their medicine. And that wasn't all. Zelig was also talking online about, quote, "being delivered from homosexuality," end quote. We actually found a clip of him talking about his testimony online. He posted it on Instagram less than a year before he disappeared. And I actually want to play it for everyone.

• 27:59Speaker 02

  Hello, everyone. This is Zelig. I wanted to hop on here and just let you guys know a testimony on my side. I've been delivered from homosexuality. I am... I'm thankful to be where I'm at right now. My journey hasn't always been easy. When I was messing up sometimes, y'all, I was in prayer. Jesus, Lord, help me in this moment.

• 28:28Speaker 02

  Whoever listens, I hope you can tune in and I'm looking forward to it. To share with you guys and to just, maybe it might be a Bible study. It could be dance. There's a lot of things. But yeah, sending love to all of you and whoever listened and tuned into this live. I thank you and I pray we all just keep moving towards Christ and what he's done for all of us.

• 28:56Ashley Flowers?

  His family told us that they supported Zelig regardless of his sexuality. So he wasn't facing pressure from them. But without knowing the complete and full beliefs of all of the churches that he was going to, my interpretation is that he was feeling a lot of pressure from other outside forces to change things out of his control. Again, I don't know these churches' specific doctrines, but Brett, I think we can speak to our own experiences growing up. Specifically, like, mental health struggles were framed as a byproduct of a bad relationship with Jesus.

• 29:29Speaker 01

  A moral failing.

• 29:30Ashley Flowers?

  Yeah, like, your relationship with God isn't strong enough if you are depressed. You are not relying on God if you feel anxious. Medications for mental health was framed to us like a way to mask a deeper problem you had with your Christianity.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, and like a crutch, almost.

• 29:45Ashley Flowers?

  Yeah, and this is just my little PSA to anyone out there, like, you might have heard the same message that we did growing up. Like, you're not broken, you're perfect. The human brain is a wild machine that we are still trying to figure out, and finding what works for you is a blessing and a win, not any kind of failure. And I believe that if we are happy and we can be kind to others, that is what whoever or whatever put us on this earth wants us to do. But unfortunately, not everyone has that outlook. But there might be a silver lining here. If Zelig was feeling a lot of pressure, there is also a world where he left intentionally and is still out there alive.

• 30:28Ashley Flowers?

  That's at least what one PI believes. Now, this PI got to work with Zelig's family for like, a week. Basically, they were made to choose between the PI Or working with police and this early on, they wanted to stay close to the official investigation. But from a week of work, this P I walked away with a theory that Zelig was pressured to go into conversion therapy. She said it was clear that he was on the hunt for something. He was visiting a ton of different churches and groups and she spoke to people throughout her investigation that specifically said Zelig had been talking to some people about conversion therapy. And just knowing that he was in a vulnerable position was enough for her to think that he decided to check into one.

• 31:11Ashley Flowers?

  Plus, she says that she specifically thinks he was planning on leaving because I guess he was super diligent about filling out his calendar, like down to each day, he would write things out. And the month of October was completely empty, which was just super out of the ordinary for him.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  And did she have any names of specific people or churches?

• 31:31Ashley Flowers?

  No, not that she gave us. Richland County Sheriff's Office did tell us that they spoke to some of his church groups, but they didn't tell us like what came of that, if anything. Now, I wonder if there weren't more names in his journal or something like I still feel like answers are there somewhere. Cause he was definitely talking to people that his family didn't know, leading up to his disappearance. And if nothing else, I feel like those people have more information on his state of mind. And maybe there aren't names in his journals, but I, again, I know there are people out there who knew him, who I would love to talk to. Like Zelig's mom said that before he disappeared, she walked into his room and he was talking to this guy on his computer.

• 32:13Ashley Flowers?

  And I guess he got super upset when she walked in. Now she has no idea who this guy is. She just described him as like an older man with like salt and pepper hair and a beard. So, I mean, if you're out there listening, please reach out to me, to his family, to police. And same goes for Zelig. Your family doesn't feel like your spirit is gone from this world. And I hope that's the case. I hope you're okay. I hope you're happy and I hope you know that your family misses you and they're worried about you. So if you are out there, please call home. But if he's not anymore, I want him to know that people are still fighting for him, and they won't stop looking until they know what happened.

• 32:55Ashley Flowers?

  When we were speaking to Zelig's family, they told us that Zelig was Kathy's only remaining child because her two daughters, Zelig's older sisters, died in a car crash around 20 years ago. They were actually the ones who inspired Zelig to dance and get into Broadway. He always said that he felt closer to them when he was dancing, and he was always dancing. He had so much light and energy and passion, and he wanted to share that with others. He had another show coming up in New York that January, and he was really looking forward to it. He was also holding a class in South Carolina before he disappeared for other students who were interested in learning about Broadway and dance. But listen, you guys, you never really know what's going on in someone's life, and there

• 33:38Ashley Flowers?

  are struggles beyond the curtain that you just can't see. We just passed the one-year anniversary of Zelig's disappearance, and there are still so many questions. But I believe that one piece of information, the right information, can crack this case wide open. So if you have that, you can contact the Richland County Sheriff's Department at 803-576-3000, or you can submit a tip anonymously through Crime Stoppers of the Midlands at 888-274-6372. And if you knew Zelig from church, or if you were the witness on that trail, reach out to police or to us, [email protected].

• 34:20Speaker 01

  And if you or a loved one is struggling with thoughts of suicide or self-harm, you can call or text the Crisis and Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988 or visit 988lifeline.org.

• 34:45Ashley Flowers?

  We'll have all the source material for this episode on our website, crimejunkie.com.

• 34:51Speaker 01

  And you can follow us on Instagram at @crimejunkiepodcast.

• 35:32Ashley Flowers?

  Crime Junkie is an AudioChuck production. I think Chuck would approve.

• 35:40Speaker 03

  When the nights grow longer, the shadows start to stir. And that can only mean one thing. Full Body Chills is back. This season, step inside original tales where every doorway leads somewhere darker, every stranger carries a secret, and nothing is ever quite what it seems. Each story takes you somewhere new, but be careful. You never know what might follow you home. So gather round, listen close, and stream Full Body Chills wherever you get your podcasts.