Reversing Chronic Disease: The Simple Steps That Actually Work | Dr. Rangan Chatterjee

Did you know many chronic diseases—like type 2 diabetes, anxiety, and fatigue—can be reversed? In this episode of “The Dr. Hyman Show,” Dr. Rangan Chatterjee breaks down how lifestyle changes, mindset shifts, and trusting your body can transform your health. We explore the hidden role of diet, stress, sleep, and movement in reversing illness naturally, while exposing what Western medicine often overlooks. If you’re ready to reclaim your health, this episode is your starting point. In this episode, we discuss: Reversing Type 2 diabetes The dangers of ultra-processed foods and how cutting them out for as little as 10 days can significantly improve energy, sleep, and overall health. How socioeconomic factors, corporate influence, and environmental toxins contribute to chronic disease​. The power of journaling, meditation, and routines to create a sense of control in an unpredictable world. Practical, no-cost tools—like mindfulness, whole-food eating, and lifestyle tweaks—that anyone can use to improve their health. View Show Notes From This Episode Get Free Weekly Health Tips from Dr. Hyman Sign Up for Dr. Hyman’s Weekly Longevity Journal Transform your habits and unlock lasting change with Dr. Rangan Chatterjee's revolutionary approach in his newest book, Make Change That Lasts. Discover simple, science-backed strategies to create a life of health, happiness, and purpose—one small shift at a time. This episode is brought to you by Seed. Seed is offering my community 25% off to try DS-01® for themselves. Visit Seed.com/Hyman and use code 25HYMAN for 25% off your first month of Seed's DS-01® Daily Synbiotic.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Coming up on this episode.

• 0:01Speaker 01

  You know, chapter one in this book is called trust yourself. And I feel that we've outsourced our inner expertise.

• 0:09Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 0:09Speaker 01

  To external experts. And I say that as a so-called expert myself.

• 0:13Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I always say the smartest doctor in the room is your own body.

• 0:18Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Before we jump into today's episode, I'd like to note that while I wish I could help everyone via my personal practice, there's simply not enough time for me to do this at this scale. And that's why I've been busy building several passion projects to help you better understand, well, you. If you're looking for data about your biology, check out Function Health for real-time lab insights. If you're in need of deepening your knowledge around your health journey, check out my membership community, Hyman Hive. And if you're looking for curated and trusted supplements and health products for your routine, visit my website, Supplement Store, for a summary of my favorite and tested products.

• 0:54Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Hi, I'm Dr. Mark Hyman, a practicing physician and proponent of systems medicine, a framework to help you understand the why or the root cause of your symptoms. Welcome to The Doctor's Pharmacy. Every week I bring on interesting guests to discuss the latest topics in the field of functional medicine and do a deep dive on how these topics pertain to your health. In today's episode, I have some interesting discussions with other experts in the field. So let's just jump right in. Rangan, it's so amazing to have you here in Austin in my studio for the podcast. We've been friends for a long time.

• 1:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I remember first getting introduced to you as you were about to embark on this incredible journey to become the doctor in the house.

• 1:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Which is a BBC television series where you went into people's homes and basically did a functional medicine makeover of their health.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And you showed the world that it's possible to actually recover from a lot of things that people didn't think you could get better from.

• 1:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, you've known this for years, of course, Mark. And it's funny you mentioned that TV show. It's just gone 10 years since the first episode.

• 1:57Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's right.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  Which is remarkable.

• 2:00Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, and I was looking back at our first communication like, wow, that was 10 years ago.

• 2:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, and what was incredible, it's still one of the proudest things in my entire career that because I kind of feel that show was ahead of its time, at least in the UK.

• 2:15Speaker 01

  I think back in 2014 and 2015, it still wasn't commonly known that many of these chronic diseases could be reversed or significantly improved by paying attention to our nutrition, our lifestyle, our mindset, our thoughts, how we approach the world. And so, as you may remember, Mark, on that show, I helped a lady put her type 2 diabetes into remission in just 30 days.

• 2:40Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Which is, by the way, something we learned is not possible in our traditional medical training, right?

• 2:44Speaker 01

  Exactly. And so it's kind of.

• 2:46Dr. Mark Hyman?

  We can manage those diseases, we can't cure them.

• 2:49Speaker 01

  Well, it's interesting if I think back to when that first episode aired to 5 million people in the UK on BBC One, which is our main channel. Yes, a lot of people loved it. Most people loved it. There was a bit of pushback because we were taught that type 2 diabetes is a chronic irreversible condition. And people were saying, well, wait a minute, it's a chronic irreversible condition. What do you mean he's helped this family put it into remission?

• 3:13Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Right, right.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  Whereas now, certainly in the UK, it's very well accepted that you can do this. In fact, there's a electronic code that doctors can now use and tag their patients saying, yes, type 2 diabetes in remission. And I think it really speaks to how quickly this whole landscape is changing. You've been at the forefront for many years, Mark, of trying to raise awareness globally. But something feels as though it's shifting where after years of trying to, you know, promote this message on your channels, on your podcasts, on my channels, on my podcasts, on television. It feels like something has started to shift in the public awareness that, wow. And not just type 2 diabetes, because I think sometimes people go, yeah, nutrition and lifestyle.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  It's related to obesity and type 2 diabetes, but it goes far beyond those more obvious conditions. Anxiety, depression, fibromyalgia, gut problems, low libido.

• 4:08Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Autoimmune diseases.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  Autoimmune diseases, all these things. And again, the other thing I'm passionate about, like you, Mark, is this idea that whenever you mention to people. Lifestyle, nutritional lifestyle, they'll say, oh, yeah, yeah, it's really important for prevention. Yes, it is, but it's also treatment. It's also the treatment. And that I don't think we're fully getting even now.

• 4:32Dr. Mark Hyman?

  It's quite amazing. I've been saying this for, I look back, you know, 15 years ago, and, and I wrote an article called Finding the Money, because right now, we're in this moment in America where we just had an election. We have President Trump, who's nominated Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to be the Health and Human Services Secretary, Dr. Osby, the head of Medicare and Medicaid Services. And we had this moment where there's a possibility for a really different way of thinking about health. And it's this incredible national emergency, I believe, a crisis that is in the United States and UK is prying a close second.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:12Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And the rest of the world is coming on very quickly. We call this a double burdened disease in the developing world, where you get diabetes and you have malaria. You know, it's like you get these infectious and, or, and so we're, we're in this incredible moment where the world's sort of waking up to the things we've been talking about for decades. And there's now, I think, post-COVID, there was just sort of this beginning to sort of realize that maybe the traditional medical system didn't have all the answers, didn't get it all right. Maybe there's another way. And so how do we take agency over ourselves to actually work on the things that matter to actually transform our health?

• 5:46Speaker 01

  This other way that you talk about, Mark, it's fascinating for me. I was thinking about this on the plane over yesterday to Austin, that fundamentally, the way we're taught in Western medical school, and there's many great things that we learn.

• 5:59Dr. Mark Hyman?

  For sure.

• 5:59Speaker 01

  For sure. There's many great things that we learnt. But fundamentally, we get taught to recognize patterns. We get taught to listen to symptoms, try and put them together so we can make the diagnosis. Once we've got the diagnosis, we can breathe a sigh of relief. Okay, we know what it is now. Now we can move on to the treatment.

• 6:19Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  Usually with pharmaceutical medications. And what's really interesting is that the problem is, is that we're trained with that mindset. So we fundamentally, as medical doctors, believe that the human body is in some ways designed to go wrong. Things are going to go wrong. When they go wrong, we're going to treat them, we're going to diagnose them, and then we're going to put people to fix their symptoms. But over the summer as well, when I took four weeks off with my family, we went around Kenya. It's really interesting. I was thinking about my backgrounds because, you know, my parents were Indian immigrants to the UK. And so I have, like many immigrant families, you're exposed to two different cultures. I'm exposed to my Indian culture at home and my Western culture at school.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  And I really thought about why, you know, the, the, the difference between that. And for example, as a child, if I had a sore throat or a fever, my mum would put extra turmeric in our food. Or she'd make me fresh ginger and fresh honey and turmeric and make me drink some hot water with it. So I grew up, you know, in many-

• 7:25Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Food is medicine is-

• 7:25Speaker 01

  Food is medicine, but then you go to medical school, you're like, oh, this content isn't there. So you forget about it. And then I think it's not about pitting one against the other. It's saying they both have incredible value. Let's bring them together. Let's use the right approach at the right time.

• 7:40Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's right.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  But the problem is, as you know, in Western medicine, we've gone too far to one extreme whereby everything's a problem. Everything needs to be treated with pharmaceuticals and it's simply not true.

• 7:51Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's true. And I think, I think what you're, I just want to double click on what you said before about lifestyle as treatment. And, you know, I, I'm, I'm a doctor, you're a doctor, and we want our patients to feel better. And, and we will do whatever it takes, whether it's surgery or radiation or chemo-

• 8:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:07Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Or a pharmaceutical, but we have to find the right treatment for the right problem. And, you know, that old saying, all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Essentially, doctors, all they're having when they graduate from medical school is either a knife or a prescription pad.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:23Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And those are inadequate to treat most of the things that we have. And, you know, if, if there was a better drug to treat diabetes than lifestyle, then of course we should use it.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:33Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And there isn't, like, you can't reverse type two diabetes with medication, period.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:39Dr. Mark Hyman?

  But you can, and I've done it dozens and hundreds of times.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  Likewise.

• 8:44Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I mean, it's just, it's, it's like a no brainer.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  And, and that's why it's so, or it can be so frustrating for medical professionals who know how to do that. When we see what the guidelines say.

• 8:57Dr. Mark Hyman?

  But even Alzheimer's, autoimmune diseases, depression.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:00Dr. Mark Hyman?

  You know, heart failure, things that Parkinson's, things that we thought were really untreatable.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. And what's fascinating is that-

• 9:09Speaker 01

  We can almost flip it. Instead of looking at the symptoms, and of course, looking at the symptoms is important. But you know, for many years, I've been talking about these four pillars of health, food, movement, sleep and relaxation. Okay. And I've always said that these four pillars.

• 9:22Dr. Mark Hyman?

  One more.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  Community.

• 9:25Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:25Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Friends.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  For sure. I agree. So I, you know, in those pillars, I put that under the sort of relaxation pillar. But yes, we can make it five. We could add in natural light to that and make it six. But what I love about those pillars is that if you have a patient with chronic disease, and if you do nothing else, but initially focus on those four areas, improve their food, and we can talk about what that means, improve their movement, get them sleeping better, and help them manage the stress in their lives better and give them a sense of community. People will be surprised by how many of these downstream symptoms kind of vanish as a byproduct.

• 10:05Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  So you're not focusing on the symptoms. You're actually going, no, no, let me create health in this human being.

• 10:10Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 10:11Speaker 01

  And let's see what's left.

• 10:13Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Right.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  Then let's think about, oh, maybe we can medicate that, or maybe we can do something here. But let's get the foundation right. And this is the message you've been saying for years.

• 10:20Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So true. I mean, that's sort of the fundamental framework of functional medicine is in medical school, we were trained to treat disease, not create health.

• 10:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:27Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Functional medicine is a science of creating health. And when you create health, disease goes away as a side effect.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:32Dr. Mark Hyman?

  People, it's like regenerative farming, you know, you create a healthy soil, you help biodiversity, you have healthy aquifers. You don't need herbicides, you don't need pesticides, you don't need fertilizer, right? And, and so how do you, how do you create a regenerative human? And, and so I think we now understand that that's what really the, I would say, functional medicine is about. The laws of nature, the laws of biology.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:50Dr. Mark Hyman?

  How the body is structured and works. And, you know, I just got an email from a friend who, who works, you know, a big, big venture capital firm. And he had a doctor working at the firm and. You know, it was, it was really sad to, to, to read this email from this doctor who basically was convinced that we don't know why we get sick, that illness just happens, that, you know, like autoimmune diseases and depression and all these weird things that we get just starts in the random acts, that there's just no cause. And, and it's, it's, it's stunning to me that doctors still think that because we're not really trained to think based on causes. I'm sure if you have a pneumonia, you want to know what bacteria it is and so forth. Uh, or if you have a blocked artery,

• 11:31Dr. Mark Hyman?

  you want to know, you know, intramuscular hypertrophy of the artery, is it a blockage or whatever, fine. But really the deep causes that are lifestyle or toxins or our microbiome, these are things are not talked about. And so I feel like we have this, if you create health and the disease goes away as a side effect.

• 11:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:49Dr. Mark Hyman?

  But, but you know, your new book, which I, I want to talk about is, is called Make Change That Lasts, Nine Simple Ways to Break Free From Habits That Hold You Back. And, you know, unlike many other health books, it's not about the what, it's about the why, and about the obstacles and things in our way to actually make those changes. Your book is about a lot of the inner work that has to get done to get us out of our own way. So we can start to build the basic habits that build the foundation for creating good health. And my perspective, good health is about being able to do whatever you want to do. Like it's, you want to get up in the morning, take a walk, you want to be able to go on a hiking trip, you want to, you know, play with your grandkids, you want to be able to do your mission in life, you want to have the energy and, and vitality to show for the people you love and for your wife and your husband and

• 12:34Dr. Mark Hyman?

  your kids and your family and your friends and, and be of service in the world. And if you feel like crap, you can't do that.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:40Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So getting, getting that's important, but you know, as, as we're in the middle of this sort of major transition, potentially in American healthcare, for the first time in history, at the scale that I've ever seen before, there's an opportunity to kind of flip the script a little bit and talk about, um, the bigger context in which we get sick. Because we all have agency and, and we all have the ability to make changes. But we do live in a structural system that drives disease. You know, Paul Farmer talked about structural violence, what are the social, political and economic conditions that drive disease? He didn't cure TB and AIDS and... In Haiti, using better drugs or surgery, he created by using the power of community. Because he felt they didn't have clean water, they didn't have watches, they didn't want to take their pills, they didn't have access to basic, simple things, sanitation.

• 13:24Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And by providing the change in the structure of the environment, he was able to get people healthy. And so we have a structural environment that promotes eating the wrong foods, not exercising, being too stressed, not sleeping.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:35Dr. Mark Hyman?

  You know, and not being in connection and community, being isolated, lonely, social media. I mean, the list goes on and on. And so, you know, there's a whole effort right now by a number of scientists at WHO to talk about what we call the commercial determinants of health, which is how large multinational corporations subvert public health, privatize profits and socialize the costs. And, and you know, this is how big food, big tobacco, big ag are trying to sell products that, you know, they're making money from, and everybody has a right to have a company and make money. But, you know, when you're producing harmful products that we know are harmful, like cigarettes, you know, there's got to be guardrails. And, and right now, food is the number one killer, exceeding smoking. So the context that you brought, I just want to put in that bigger context.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:16Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Because, because at the same time that people have to work on their inner world and change that and connect with the things that are in their way from actually connecting with their health, we also have to help them by changing the structural things. And that's what I'm doing in Washington with a lot of my friends and colleagues to try to change the policies and make it easier to make the right choice and harder to make the wrong choice.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's the external and the internal, right? So we know, and we've known for many years, in many countries around the world, that your health outcomes are strongly associated with your socioeconomic status.

• 14:50Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Right.

• 14:51Speaker 01

  Right? Which is not a, you know, it's an uncomfortable truth for many nations to confront that actually the wealthier you are, the more affluence you have, the better able you are to be well. And there's a variety of different factors that influence that. So I would see that this argument or this point would get polarized quite a lot. So. I would often hear doctors online say, well, there's no point talking about how an individual patient can help improve their lives because this is a structural issue. Right? And then I would think about this go, yes, there's good data to support that there is a structural element, but nothing is black or white.

• 15:30Dr. Mark Hyman?

  A hundred percent.

• 15:30Speaker 01

  Right? And this is where we go wrong in a whole variety of different ways in modern society. We try and make everything black and white and it's not, right? I worked for seven and a half years in a part of the UK called Oldham. I was in an inner city practice. It was a very poor population, lots of immigrants, a lot of people working two jobs, a lot of single parents. They were the loveliest population I ever worked with. Genuinely, they were so friendly and warm, but their lives were tough.

• 16:01Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 16:02Speaker 01

  Now, I used to think, yes, there's a link, there's a strong link between your socioeconomic status and your overall health.

• 16:10Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  But if a patient's coming into me individually and they're looking for help, I can't say to them, hey, listen, there's something I can do. Look, this is a structural problem, right? Like, you know, you crack on, let me see if I can change the world around you. Like, as a doctor, you, you have to be able to help that person one on one. So I think it has to come from both places.

• 16:33Dr. Mark Hyman?

  A hundred percent.

• 16:33Speaker 01

  Yes, we need structural change. We need better, it needs to be easier and cheaper for more people to eat good quality food.

• 16:41Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  We have to, you know, like Dan Buettner will talk in the blues, and you have to actually make it easy for people to walk around and move around. Whereas I come to America and some of these cities, some of them, you can't walk.

• 16:52Dr. Mark Hyman?

  No, you can't.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  You know, it's very hard to walk. You need to, you need to take a car, right? So it's, it's hard for people. At the same time, I believe in people, Mark. I believe that every single human being can and wants to make change.

• 17:07Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  And I have seen people in the darkest of places in my practice over the years make transformative change.

• 17:13Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, no, I agree.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  So I want society to change, and maybe it is starting to change. At the same time, I want to help the individuals. Be able to go, yeah, whilst I'm waiting, these things I can do. And that's what Make Change at Last is about. It's about my 23 years of experience as a medical doctor, having seen tens of thousands of patients. And one of the key things I wanted to crack mark, which I don't feel we talk enough about in this health and wellness space in which we both operate. A lot of the advice is about what you need to be doing. And that, of course, is useful. Many people need to know, well, kind of what should I be eating? How much should I be moving? And you've written some wonderful books over the years, helping people with that. But I was

• 17:57Speaker 01

  thinking over the last couple of years, why is it, and I know there's structural components to this, but I was thinking, why is it that despite all the increased knowledge, all the health books, all the health podcasts, all the blogs online?

• 18:11Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Are we getting sicker and sicker?

• 18:12Speaker 01

  Why are we getting sicker?

• 18:13Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Going more and more away.

• 18:14Speaker 01

  There's more knowledge, but we're getting sicker. I'm like, what's the gap here? Now, yes, there's external issues like the structure of the food environment and the farming system. I accept that. But it isn't just that for me. It's also because I feel, I mean, it's, you know, chapter one in this book is called Trust Yourself. And I feel that we've outsourced our inner expertise

• 18:37Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  to external experts. And I say that as a so-called expert myself.

• 18:42Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I always say the smartest doctor in the room is your own body.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  Exactly. And so this book, I think, is going to really empower people to know, look, Mark, I don't know if you get this or not, but I get this on my podcast. I've had it several times where one week I'll talk to a medical doctor with all the credentials, maybe they went to Harvard Medical School, and they'll, let's say, come on and talk about a particular diet. Let's say a ketogenic diet for specific mental health problems. And they will quote four or five research studies to support their perspective and will tell us about lots of patients that, you know, they've used that approach on and they've got better. And then you might get two months later, a different expert, a nutrition expert or a medical doctor, well-credentialed.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Talking about the Mediterranean diet or a whole food plant based diet and quoting research to support their perspective and patients who improved when they followed their advice. And then I would often get people contacting me online saying, hey, Dr. Chachy, I'm a little bit confused. Like that expert sounded great. They had research and patient studies, but this this other expert also sounded great. And they're saying the opposite, and they have research and patient studies. I don't know which expert to trust. And Mark, I believe, I'm not saying don't listen to experts. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is instead of asking which expert should I trust, I think the more useful question is, why do I no longer trust myself?

• 20:11Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  So I say-

• 20:12Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And how do I listen to my body?

• 20:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:15Dr. Mark Hyman?

  How I listen to the signals it's saying and actually see what's working and what's not working. Some people say dairy is bad for you, but some people do fine on dairy. Other people say, you know, it's good for you and, you know, it may not be good for you.

• 20:28Speaker 01

  We want the black or white. Is dairy good? Is it bad? It's like, well, it depends for who and in what context. Is fasting good? Is it bad? Well-

• 20:36Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Your body will tell you.

• 20:37Speaker 01

  It kind of depends, right? If, if, if, for example, you've got type 2 diabetes and you're carrying a lot of excess weight on your body, fasting, if done in the right way, might be helpful for you.

• 20:48Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Right.

• 20:49Speaker 01

  Right? If, on the other hand, you're an undernourished teenage girl with anorexia-

• 20:53Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Not a good idea.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  It may not be, but we want to know, is fasting good or bad? It depends, right? And so with that example on my podcast that I shared, I would say, well, listen, if you resonate with both of those people's messages, why don't you do this? For four weeks, try this expert's diet and pay attention. Those are the two key words. Pay attention. How do you feel? What's your energy like? Your vitality? Your sleep? How much focus do you have? What is your gut like? You know, how are your bowels? Right? Pay attention. And then for the next four weeks, try the other one and at the same time, pay attention. Now, I'm not saying that will work 100% of the time. Yes, we need advice from experts like

• 21:35Speaker 01

  yourself or me to help guide us. But ultimately, neither one of us know for sure which is the perfect diet for that individual. We can provide frameworks, like you have your Pegan diet, right? It's a framework-

• 21:48Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, it's basic foundational principles, but it's highly flexible-

• 21:51Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 21:52Dr. Mark Hyman?

  It's personalized.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  And I feel the problem, Mark, when it comes to making change at last is if you have outsourced your inner expertise to external experts, what ends up happening is that we start to feel like failures. Oh, I followed that person's diet. It didn't work for me. It can't be the diet. It must be me. There's something wrong with me. Like, I'm a failure. And then guilt, shame, all these things start coming in, which mean that actually, we don't make any changes, or we actually feel worse about ourselves than when we started before. So this book is really my attempt to go, listen, I submit to you, Mark, and let's see what your perspective is on this. I imagine that people who follow you, and people who listen to your podcast each week,

• 22:41Speaker 01

  I reckon 95% of them already know that excess sugar is not helping them.

• 22:50Dr. Mark Hyman?

  100%.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  They already know that. So if they've still got an issue with excess sugar, it's not more external knowledge they need. It's like, oh, why is it despite the knowledge, do I keep going to sugar? And so can I just share a really simple exercise that I've used for many years with patients? It's, it sounds really simple, but it's very, very powerful. I call it the three Fs. The first F is feel. The second F is feed. And the third F is find. Right. I'll go through it. So I imagine that a lot of your listeners, Mark, are trying to reset their relationship with sugar. Right? So what people often say is, Dr. Chatty, I was,

• 23:30Speaker 01

  I was fine in the day, but at 9pm, I was on the sofa, I was watching TV, and I really wanted ice cream. Okay. Have you ever felt like that before, Mark?

• 23:41Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Me? Never.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  Okay. Right. It's really common. Now, they want to make changes. They know-

• 23:46Dr. Mark Hyman?

  My wife is terrible, by the way. She buys, she loves me, and she thinks it's love, and she buys me my Achilles heel, which is Sicilian Van Leeuwen's pistachio ice cream.

• 23:58Speaker 01

  Well, it sounds delicious.

• 23:59Dr. Mark Hyman?

  It's amazing. And I don't do it very often, but I know exactly that moment where like-

• 24:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I'm not saying you should or shouldn't have it. It's up to you, right? But if you're trying to reduce your sugar intake, yet you still find yourself with half a tub of ice cream every evening, perhaps this exercise will help you. So I would say to my patients, okay, next time you're on the sofa- And you have a craving for the ice cream. Take a pause, just for a few seconds, and ask yourself the first F, feel. What am I feeling? Is it physical hunger or is it emotional hunger? Oh, because many people don't even know that. They haven't taken a pause. They feel, oh, I need sugar. The ice cream's in my mouth, right? So it's just, just, let's create a gap between stimulus and response, just for a moment. Then you go, ah, well, maybe I'm a bit stressed.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Oh, I've just had a row with my partner and this is just a way of making me feel better. Okay, go ahead and have it. You're just now starting to build up that awareness. Next time it happens, do the first F and go to the second F, which is feed. Okay, next time it happens, you take a pause. What am I feeling? Oh, I'm feeling really stressed, you know, I've been on Zoom calls all day and I didn't go out for a lunchtime walk. Okay, then the second F is feed. How does food feed that feeling? Oh, ice cream helps me feel less stressed. You're starting to build up this awareness, this inner self-awareness. Oh, that's why I'm going to the ice cream. And then the next time you go to the third F. So now that you know the feeling, now that you know how food feeds the feeling.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  The third F is find. Can I find an alternative behavior?

• 25:37Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  To feed the feeling. So it could be, I'm stressed.

• 25:40Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Right.

• 25:41Speaker 01

  Instead of going to sugar.

• 25:42Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Right.

• 25:43Speaker 01

  Oh, I love yoga. Maybe I'll go on YouTube and do a 10 minute yoga sequence. Or if you feel lonely, because many people go to sugars, they feel lonely. How can you nourish yourself in another way? Maybe you run yourself a bath for 15 minutes. Or you phone one of your friends or your parents, right? So it's a simple exercise.

• 25:59Dr. Mark Hyman?

  It's so true.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  That you can apply to anything. Alcohol, social media, online pornography, online shopping. It's very, very simple, but very, very powerful.

• 26:07Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I love it. And I, I, you know, I've been doing this forever, like you, and came up with a very similar framework for my patients, which is one, not, it's not what you're eating, it's what's eating you.

• 26:16Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 26:16Dr. Mark Hyman?

  You have to figure that out. And two, always ask yourself, what do I need? What am I feeling and what do I need?

• 26:23Speaker 01

  Thank you, Ken.

• 26:24Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Am I hungry? Do I need food? Am I lonely? Do I need ice cream? Or do I need to call a friend? You know, am I tired? Do I need a nap? Or do I need sugar? Like, and so there's a very simple set of non judgmental questions you can ask about what am I actually feeling right now? And what do I need? And we often don't stop to make that distinction. That's what you're asking people to do is inviting them to go, gee, I have this earthy ice cream. What's really going on with me right now? Am I depressed? Am I sad? Am I tired? I need energy. Have I been, you know, just eating too much carbs and I'm craving carbs? Like, what's going on? And I think it's a very powerful tool to sort of create self awareness around the choices you're making.

• 27:04Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And then, yeah, then figure out what you, what you really need in that moment and, and then go reach out for that. If it's calling a friend, if it's, you know, taking a nap, if it's whatever it is, it's going to sort of deal with what you need. Rather than the food, which becomes our default. And we've, you know, we've created a culture with it. That's what happens when your kid shut up here, ate this candy. If you're screaming, eat this ice cream here, you know, have, have some treat as a way of kind of mollifying kids. And it becomes this sense of, of our reliance on things that are really bad for us to make us feel better. Rather than understanding how to actually feel better.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, this stuff is game changing for people because I imagine, Mark, that there,

• 27:44Speaker 01

  there's many people out there who know what they should be doing now for health, particularly people who listen to health shows like yours or mine. Right? These, these are people who are really interested. Yes, for sure. The general public, we need to help, keep helping educating them on what are the healthy choices to make. But that external knowledge is not enough. I opened my new book with a very powerful story of a GP colleague of mine, a medical colleague, an expert in type two diabetes, you know, she'd always send me the latest papers with her own informed commentary on them and emails. And then one day she actually sent me a text message saying, hey, Ron, are you around this weekend? I really need to chat. So I, I arranged to meet her.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  And what happened is that she basically said that there was a patient that week in her clinic.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  With a diagnosis of type 2 diabetes and she was trying to educate the patient and said, listen, look, excess sugar, too many ultra-processed foods is going to cause your body to be inflamed, it's going to affect your gut microbiome. And she was, you know, trying to educate this patient and the patient just stopped her and said, why should I listen to you? You're fatter than I am.

• 28:55Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's what the diabetes doctor.

• 28:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, the patient said it to the doctor.

• 28:59Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's crazy.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, but, but what's really interesting, right, is because we can debate whether it was the right thing for that patient to say or not, but the point of me opening this new book with that story is to demonstrate a really important point. I met my friend for a coffee that weekend and she said, you know what, Rangan, the truth is the patient was right.

• 29:20Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  The patient was absolutely right. What the patient doesn't know is that in my drawer, I have big bags of Cadbury's giant buttons.

• 29:30Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Wow.

• 29:31Speaker 01

  Right. So the point is she had all the knowledge. Many of us have the knowledge.

• 29:35Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Right.

• 29:35Speaker 01

  We have the external knowledge, but that's not inner awareness. That's not wisdom.

• 29:40Dr. Mark Hyman?

  No.

• 29:40Speaker 01

  Right. And I think this is the missing piece.

• 29:43Dr. Mark Hyman?

  They're disconnected from themselves.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  We're disconnected from ourselves. You know, you've talked about how we're disconnected from our food environment and we are, but we're also disconnected from ourselves. And again, in that chapter called Trust Yourself, I, I write, I really, I really enjoyed reading this account of this American scientist who went to see this Aboriginal tribe and was explaining to this tribe how Americans think with their heads. And the tribe were really confused. I said, oh, yeah, oh, we think with our guts.

• 30:13Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 30:14Speaker 01

  And again.

• 30:15Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Gut feeling. And even the word, the word for mind in Chinese is heart.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 30:21Dr. Mark Hyman?

  It's shen shen. It's your heart mind. So it's really, it's interesting how languages.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Exactly, but it's not about who's right or wrong. It's, it's all, we need all of these things in balance. You want the head, but you also want the heart. You want your gut feeling. And I feel that society has changed a little bit too much where we're being bombarded with more and more information, which is good up to a point, but we need to become our own experts. And that's really why I'm so proud of this book. I think it's gonna be incredibly helpful for people because I think it's gonna give them a self-awareness that they may not already have.

• 30:57Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's all right. I mean, I, I think you and I are on the same track. People need to be empowered in knowledge and the tools to both know what to do, know how to do it. And with the information that allows them to be informed about their own biology. And I think most of medicine has been paternalistic and patronizing and has created a firewall between you and your own biology and the doctor and the insurance companies and the healthcare system are standing in that firewall. And, and, and your work is, is breaking that down. And I, you know, I co-founded a company called Function Health and empowers people to get their own lab data and learn about their own health in a deep way that they never were able to before without having to go through the system, then be empowered with that knowledge and say, you know, I'm not crazy, you know, like, you know, I, I, I have these things going on. My doctor didn't check for my vitamin D level. I didn't check for my iron level. Didn't check for my

• 31:41Dr. Mark Hyman?

  uh inflammation levels, didn't check my metabolic health, didn't check my insulin. And these are what's making me feel bad. And they're not things that are abnormal in normal tests. So we had this moment where, where, where we're shifting sort of agency back to individuals and, and realizing that 80% of health does not happen in the doctor's office. I can't cure diabetes in my office, right? It's cured on the kitchen, it's cured on the farm, like all the way from the field before. Not, not in the clinic.

• 32:05Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 32:05Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And so this, this moment where we actually can, you know, once it recognized that we live in a structural system that promotes disease, but two, we have agency and now can use tools and products and books, things like yours. Make Change That Lasts is a fabulous book. Everybody definitely has got to get it. It's out, Nine Simple Ways to Break Free from Habits That Hold You Back. I mean, you know, I think, I think there's so much pain that people suffer and shame and we have such a culture of blame. And I think, I think, I think that's something I'd like you to dig in and address because right now what's happening is as, as the, the threat to the food industry is coming from um the current American administration, they're freaking out and they're coming out with their talking points and they're very clear.

• 32:49Dr. Mark Hyman?

  This is discriminatory to tell people not to eat ultra-processed food. It prevents them from getting access to affordable food that's safe, that's shelf-stable, that they can, you know, prepare easily, that's convenient. That it's really about taking away, you know, people's, people's choice to not give them that. And it's all about personal, you know, agency and, and, and it's, it's, it's a bunch of propaganda to justify them continuing with what they're doing without actually, the, the public actually having the ability to understand that they're being manipulated by these messages. And the truth is, when you, when you do the things that you write about in your book, and I want to go through more of them, you start to, you start to have the agency and

• 33:33Dr. Mark Hyman?

  the sense that you can be the CEO of your health and that you have to really listen to your inner signals to guide you and not be kind of manipulated by the propaganda out there, both from the food industry and the medical system.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  And the way to not get manipulated by it on an individual level is to learn to trust yourself, right? Because if it's always about what are you hearing outside, this external noise, you're going to get confused, you're going to get confused by maybe what the food industry is saying, you're going to get confused by experts who have different opinions. So if you, for example, for 10 days, just eat whole foods, right? Let's say you're struggling with it and you know this full well, Mark, and you've written books on this, if for 10 days you cut out all those ultra-processed foods and you just eat whole foods, in whichever form you want to, that, you know, minerally processed, pretty close to how they're found in their natural form, you are going to feel like a different person.

• 34:29Speaker 01

  It is still one of the most impactful things that I could do with a patient. It's just for two weeks, you find it hard, okay, let's find the right two weeks or 10 days, let's clear out the cupboards, let's make sure you've got a plan, you don't have many social engagements, whatever it is, do it for two weeks and then come back and tell me how you feel. If you, as most people do, feel more energy, more vitality, you're sleeping better, your skin is better, your relationships are often better. This is what people don't realise. It's not just about their weight, it's their whole being.

• 35:03Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 35:03Speaker 01

  When you're healthy.

• 35:04Dr. Mark Hyman?

  You're luminous and light and free and happy.

• 35:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're less reactive. All these things are different. Then you're better equipped to go into the world and you can hear what your friends have to say or the media have to say, but you have this inner knowing that, yeah, I know what. Because the truth is, some of us, some of people listening now will go, look, I can't really influence the governments. Right now, you may argue that you can through your choices.

• 35:31Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Of course.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  Right through where you spend your dollars and your pounds.

• 35:33Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Use your voice, call your congressman, call your senator, so you care about these issues.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:37Dr. Mark Hyman?

  You don't want to be poisoned anymore.

• 35:38Speaker 01

  But, but I would also argue, Mark, that we're better able to change the world when we are able to look after ourselves.

• 35:45Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I mean, think, think, I always, I wrote an article years ago and I said, imagine if America had an eat in. Or for one day, we just all ate in from, cooked from whole, real food, didn't buy anything packaged, processed or a fast food restaurant. The whole industry would change overnight.

• 36:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:00Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Like that.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  But we're so used, and here's one of the big problems is that we've, we've become, we've become habituated and used to suboptimal health. So much of the population are walking around, they don't know how good they could feel.

• 36:19Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  They think how they feel when they've had, let's say, seven hours of sleep. Oh, this is a good day. I still need four coffees to get myself through, but this is a good day. People, and I've seen it, and I didn't 10 years ago know how good I could feel until I cut all that stuff out. I started to eat well and sleep well. You're like, oh, wow.

• 36:35Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, that's so true.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  You're, you interact differently. The other thing, Mark, that it's kind of a central theme in this new book that, that kind of goes through many of the chapters. And again, I think we're not talking about this enough is. Emotional stress. And what I mean by that, let me give a really practical example for people. Like, we might be trying to change our behaviours, like our sugar intake, like our alcohol intake, for example. It's very, very common that people are trying to do that. But too often, we're focusing on the behaviour without understanding that every single behaviour serves a role in our life.

• 37:09Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And the why behind it.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  What's the why behind that behaviour, right? So if you, right, let me try and pick an example that many people can resonate with. They're driving to work and they're a bit late and someone cuts them up in front of them, right?

• 37:27Dr. Mark Hyman?

  We call them cutting it off, cutting you off.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  Cutting you off.

• 37:30Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Cutting them up is like when you chop people off.

• 37:32Speaker 01

  Okay, okay, so they, they.

• 37:34Dr. Mark Hyman?

  We've got a little translation problem.

• 37:36Speaker 01

  Right, so.

• 37:37Dr. Mark Hyman?

  We don't want anybody cutting anybody up.

• 37:39Speaker 01

  Exactly. So someone, someone just pulls in front of you suddenly, right?

• 37:42Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Cut you off, yeah.

• 37:43Speaker 01

  And many of us feel, as I used to, that, yeah, if someone does that, I'm entitled to get stressed, right? They're really annoying, right? They shouldn't do that. They shouldn't drive that way. And I'm not saying that they should, of course.

• 37:53Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Or maybe they're racing to get to the hospital to watch their mother die and be there before.

• 37:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's, but, but it's, it's this knowledge for that individual who wants to make change that lasts. They're not connecting their sugar intake to that incident, and I'm going to try and connect it for them. If you take a more, and I say this with, with an open heart, a more victim approach to life, that actually the way I am and the way I'm feeling is down to the world around me. You're actually going to struggle in the long term because then you're like a puppet being blown around by the actions of other people. If you can train yourself to not be so reactive in those moments, which you can, and I outline loads of practical exercises in the book and how you can do this.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  You will find that your behaviours naturally start to change because if you get wound up at eight thirty in the morning whilst you're driving.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  You create emotional stress in your body. That emotional stress will have to be neutralized in some way or another. Now, you might do it in a helpful way, like going for a walk.

• 38:55Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  Or usually you get to work, you have a gossip, you have a moan, you'll need a chocolate bar, you'll need a can of sugary drinks or something because you've got this internal discomfort that you're trying to soothe. We don't realize that if you really go upstream, if you can change the way you interact with that situation, and it just takes practice, right?

• 39:16Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Well, it's our mind, right?

• 39:18Speaker 01

  It's your mind.

• 39:19Dr. Mark Hyman?

  It's our minds that are our biggest enemy. And this is where, you know, it's like Gavermati, we were talking about before, he says, trauma isn't what happens to you, it's the meaning you make from what happens to you.

• 39:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:30Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Right? And so we make so much meaning. And one of the chapters in your book is take less offense. I want to get on that. But before we drop into that, I just want to kind of highlight what you said earlier because it's really important and I people want to, I want to double click on this for people. Most people have no idea how close they are to feeling good. Most people don't know that their behaviors are causing, have the symptoms and illnesses and problems that they're having. And I think it's a random act of God. And I was sharing with you before about this doctor who literally wrote this email, very educated guy, basically saying, well, we don't know why we get sick. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And, and so I, I've created something called the 10 day detox diet, basically out of functional medicine. It's a way of taking out all the inflammatory foods and ultra-processed foods and putting

• 40:15Dr. Mark Hyman?

  in all the whole foods that are anti-inflammatory, microbiome building that are really designed to help regulate blood sugar and just really simple principles of real whole food nutrition. And what's been amazing to me, I've done this now for 20 years and I wrote a book about it 10 years ago. I did, I did retreats around the world where I put people in just even five days, even for a week. And universally, we see an average reduction in all symptoms from all symptoms.

• 40:44Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Sixty to seventy percent in ten days. Now, there's no drug on the planet that can do that. You have a migraine headache, Gary Earl Val, you have depression, you have insomnia, you have joint pain, you have acne, you have eczema, you have whatever it is. And so there are some people who won't get better in those ten days. They might have Lyme disease or heavy metal poisoning or something more serious or mold toxicity they need to treat. But most people have a profound experience and they will, the lights will come on, they have mental clarity, they'll have energy, they'll feel that these chronic symptoms go away and they'll realize that they don't have to suffer, you know. So I've created a whole online program that's called the ten day detox. You go to ten day detox dot com, you can sign up, it's amazing. And we've had just the most amazing stories and people are like crying. I mean, this one woman

• 41:29Dr. Mark Hyman?

  like left a video, she had dermatomyositis, which is this autoimmune condition that doctors need to treat with high dose steroids and immune suppressants and it's very debilitating and you get muscle damage, you get skin inflammation and joint pain and just so many things going on. And within just a short few days, all that went away. And so that's the invitation here is just, if you can make some simple changes and then you can see that you're not stuck forever like this frog in boiling water.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  It gives you hope. For the first time, it then gives people hope.

• 42:01Dr. Mark Hyman?

  You can choose, you know, I always say you can choose. If you want to go back and eat that ice cream that makes you have eczema, go ahead. But then you know what it is and then you have the chance to stop at any time. So I think I encourage people to do this because it's what you talked about. What if you could just make that change and see the change that happens in your biology like that. And traditional medicine doesn't believe that, doesn't see it, doesn't understand it, don't know, we don't know how to create health and.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  But once you've seen it as a doctor, you can't unsee it. Once you felt it as a patient, you can't unfeel it. It all comes back to this central idea. You've got to start trusting yourself. You've got to know that, oh, when I do this. And I feel like a different person. Now, here's the thing. If someone has done your 10 day detox diet and they felt better. And they wanted to continue, but somehow life got in the way and they kind of crap back to where they were before. I would say, don't be disillusioned. Okay, this is part of the process of change. Nobody wakes up one morning on January the first and suddenly decides that everything is going to be different. And it is, right? Change involves ups, it involves downs.

• 43:06Speaker 01

  Each time you fall off is an opportunity to learn, why did I? Why, despite feeling so good, did I start making different choices again? Maybe it was too much stress. Maybe it was a relationship issue. Maybe it's how you feel about yourself. Maybe, you know.

• 43:22Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I always describe it, it's like, you know, when you've got your, your, uh, Google Maps and you miss a turn or you go the wrong way. It doesn't yell at you and shame you and say, you stupid idiot, why did you take that left turn? I already told you where to go. You're such a moron. It says, you know, at the next possible opportunity, you know, go left or we're rerouting or it's very friendly.

• 43:44Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 43:44Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And so, you know, I always say, you know, if we're given the tools to take our bodies back to their original factory settings. And that's what your work does. That's what my work does. It's so similar. The 10 day detox does that. It's like, then you know, you have the ability to push that button. Like when your computer goes, Fritz, you have the ability to push that button and reset.

• 44:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, one of the, one of the ideas I'm super passionate about in this book, that because the central idea underpinning all of the chapters is this idea of a reliance, that we're overly reliant on things in our outside world in order to feel good. And I'm not saying get rid of those. I'm just saying, we're looking for a state of minimal reliance, not zero. There's a whole chapter on community and why you don't want to pursue zero reliance. But you want to pursue a state that I call minimal reliance, which I think is a very fresh way.

• 44:31Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I love this.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  Of people to look at things. And so each of the nine chapters is on a different reliance. Now, I've mentioned already a reliance on experts and over reliance on experts. And I'm saying you need to trust yourself, right? And in chapter one, I helped people figure out how to do that. But I think chapter six is called embrace discomfort and it's about a reliance on comforts. Now, here's the thing, I don't want guilt or shame to come into people's lives because the problem is those energies never lead to long lasting change. They lead to two week or three week change, but it's never long term. Because what I've learned, Mark, over the years is that every single behavior either comes from the energy of love or the energy of fear.

• 45:14Speaker 01

  And actually, I think this is why so many changes don't work is because behind those changes is this energy of fear, guilt, shame, jealousy, envy, I'm not good enough, I don't like myself. Those things will never lead to long term changes. So in the book, I've got loads of practical tips for people to help them do that. But one of these reliances that I was talking about is comfort, we're reliant, we're overly reliant on comfort. Now, we don't want people to feel bad about that. Humans, we are hardwired for comfort. That's why we've had all this evolution. That's why we've now got these, you know, we've got heating, we've got air conditioning, we've got all these modern comforts. I'm not saying get rid of them. Something happened about 50 years ago where the balance shifted.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  Before that, our desire for comfort was improving our lives. Now, our lives are so comfortable, it's making us sick.

• 46:07Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  So you, I don't know if you've seen these studies or not, Mark, but there was a study published recently of 25 million children from many countries around the world. It's a meta-analysis. And it showed that children today compared to 30 years ago run a mile 90 seconds slower.

• 46:25Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Damn, that's very, very.

• 46:27Speaker 01

  That's a lot slower in just 30 years, right?

• 46:30Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Forty percent of kids are overweight and.

• 46:32Speaker 01

  So our kids are getting weaker and adults are getting weaker as well. And some of that has to do with our relationship with comfort and discomfort. Right? Many of us are living these super comfortable lives now. Just think about it, Mark, you could sit on your sofa in your house. You no longer have to go and get your food, bring it home, cook it. You could literally pick up your smartphone and sit on the sofa all day. And frankly, most of your needs, at least your short-term needs, could be met.

• 47:02Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  You could have food brought to you. Not only food brought to you that you have to cook, it could be cooked for you and brought to you, right? And so, one way I think, I want people to think about this is-

• 47:14Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, I lived in Western Mass for years and there was no home delivery of food. There was no takeout. There was nothing. So basically you had to cook at home. And now I moved to Austin, you can push a button, the food's at your house. It's like-

• 47:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it comes at a cost. It comes at a huge cost. And in the book, I call it the cost of comfort, right? Many of the diseases that you are trying to raise awareness of, and me, you can look at through the lens of discomfort. Like type 2 diabetes, for example, is a disease of comfort. You simply do not see it to anywhere near the same degree in societies where their lives are a little bit uncomfortable, like traditional societies. You don't see type 2 diabetes there, right?

• 47:55Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Oh God, I don't know. I just, I just was in Kenya and I was at the Masai Mara.

• 48:01Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 48:02Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And I, and I, I told the story, I think, on the podcast before, but, you know, I was meeting with the chief and, you know, they don't have running water. They don't have electricity. They have smartphones, but they, they live a very traditional life in their traditional mud huts with their, their goats and cows and drinking the meat and the blood, I mean, eating the meat and drinking the blood. And I was talking to the chief and, and he said, yeah, you know, we have such a problem of diabetes in our population. And, and I didn't really understand why. And then I, and I saw the next day, this giant Coca-Cola truck filled to the brim, like a big, a big truck.

• 48:43Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Drove up, the entire community lined up, all paid their little nickels for whatever the coke was there. And they all were just jamming back in their traditional Maasai.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:54Dr. Mark Hyman?

  You know, wardrobes, they're drinking this stuff and they don't, and they're getting all these processed foods and all these crackers and the things from the market. And, and they don't even know why they have diabetes.

• 49:03Speaker 01

  It's tragic, isn't it? But the, the, the point I'm trying to make is that's not their traditional life, right?

• 49:08Dr. Mark Hyman?

  No.

• 49:09Speaker 01

  This is, the modern world has infiltrated and now they're getting sick. So I'm about empowering individuals to go, okay, yes, we want the, the world around us to change. And you're obviously trying to do that with your interactions in Washington and with politics. But what can an individual do in the meantime whilst we're waiting for the world to change? And I think that we need to examine our relationship with discomfort. If we're constantly avoiding discomfort, it's going to really come at a cost on two different levels. One level is, like I reflected as I was writing this book, Mark, on so many of my patients over the years seem to have this low-grade anxiety that was built on a foundation of fragility. And I'll, I'll tell you what I mean by that.

• 49:53Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 49:54Speaker 01

  Because our lives, many of our lives have become so physically comfortable. I'm not saying uncomfortable in other ways, but physically comfortable.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  Like, we kind of know that if things get bad, we may not be able to handle it. Cause we're not practicing handling discomfort. So we don't feel good. And when adversity comes across us, as it always does, we struggle to handle it because we're not practicing at handling it. So one way that you can start to practice discomfort, there's this beautiful table in the book where I say, create a rule. Create your own personal rules for discomfort, right? So what I like about a rule is that you avoid constant decision-making, right? So I made a rule about five, six years ago, I can't remember when. I just internalized this rule that I'm no longer going to outsource my movement to electronic devices where possible, right?

• 50:49Speaker 01

  So I'm always going to take the stairs. Unless there's a really good reason not to.

• 50:54Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I was thinking you couldn't listen to music while you work out. I'm like, no, no, no.

• 50:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, so, so, so this rule for me, right? And I'm only sharing, I'm not saying everyone has to do it. I'm sharing it in case it's useful for someone. I basically decided from that day. My default becomes taking the stairs. Now, I recognize I'm physically able. Not everyone is. So I'm, I'm able to do that. I have two legs that are working. Okay. So for me, it's a great rule because it means when I go to the supermarket and the car park is on the second floor, I don't think I've taken the stairs. Sorry. I don't think I've taken the elevator in about five years. I'll walk down the stairs, do my shopping, and I'll walk up the stairs with my bags. Now.

• 51:32Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's why you got those ripped biceps.

• 51:33Speaker 01

  Well, the thing is, I don't go to the gym much, Mark, right? I do a five minute strength workout every morning that I've told you about on this show before, and I still do it every morning while my coffee brews. Because I apply the two most important principles of behavior change, which is, one, make it easy. Two, stick it onto an existing habit. So I do that. But even when I arrived in America 10 days ago, LA airport, I remember 14 hour flight, or, you know, by the time, you know, with my connecting plane. And you get off and there were these two long escalators and one long flight of stairs. My default has become, and I did this just 10 days ago, I, I get off the plane,

• 52:15Speaker 01

  I walk up the stairs with my bags. And I was the only one I saw. Now, I don't want people to feel bad, Mark, because I understand we're hardwired for comforts, but that is a rule, a discomfort rule, that has helped me immeasurably in my life. Now, look, I got to Austin last night, right? I got to my hotel late last night and I was on the 33rd floor.

• 52:37Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Oh.

• 52:37Speaker 01

  I did not go up 33 flights. Okay. So I'm saying, I, I, I don't always.

• 52:42Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 52:42Speaker 01

  But if you don't have a rule like that, it means that 95% of the time, you're taking the lift.

• 52:47Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Well, your book is so full of great things like, like these simple tips that, that are heading these chapters, like embracing discomfort and.

• 52:56Speaker 01

  Expecting adversity. There's another chapter.

• 52:59Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Right. And, and also, you know, taking less offense and relying on something right. That's a very amazing one. Because I think we live in such a culture of offense right now and lack of curiosity, lack of inquiry, lack of. Understanding where another person comes from, what they think and what matters to them, why they believe what they believe. And so we've kind of gotten in this culture where we're so offended by everything. I'm curious why you put this in the book? Why you took this concept of taking less offence and cultivating empathy and forgiveness and releasing kind of your being offended?

• 53:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:37Dr. Mark Hyman?

  A business coach once that said to me, Mark, stop looking for ways to be offended. I was complaining about this, I was complaining about that. He said, some people just make wrong machines, you know, they're constantly offended. And I think it was really, it just struck me like, yeah, like, it's not usually.

• 53:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. Why is a medical doctor like me writing a chapter on taking less offence?

• 53:56Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, that's kind of what I'm getting at.

• 53:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, which is, which is, I believe, one of the unique things about this book, right? I believe I'm bringing in some really important inner world concepts to the topic of health, right? So it kind of relates to what I said before about we're not relating how we interact with the driver who jumps in front of us to our behaviours. I think this chapter, Take Less Offence and Overreliance on Being Right, again, is the same kind of point, right? So, big picture, Mark, if we just zoom out for a second and I'll come back into Take Less Offence. Big picture, I've realised over the years in my own life and having seen tens of thousands of patients, that one of the key root cause decisions you make

• 54:42Speaker 01

  in life is whether you're going to be a victim to life or you're going to be the architect of your life.

• 54:49Dr. Mark Hyman?

  You're the author, or are you?

• 54:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. Now, let me be clear. I understand people have gone through traumatic events, right? I'm using victim in a very specific way here. I'm using the word victim as opposed to, sorry, I'm using the word victim to kind of illustrate this point that things are going to happen to you outside your control all the time. If you allow those things to overly bother you and change your internal state, it's going to impact your health, it's going to impact your. Relationships is going to impact your behaviours. So if you're someone who goes on social media, for example, and is getting really annoyed at all the comments you see and all the posts, and you're taking offence,

• 55:35Speaker 01

  you're entitled to do that. My job as a fellow human being is not to tell you to change things. I'm just trying to show you that actually there's a consequence to that. You make yourself feel bad, you create this emotional stress. That's going to drive you to certain behaviours like sugar, like alcohol, like pornography, whatever it is, those are downstream consequences of the way you're interacting with the world. Now, here's the point I want people to understand. Nothing is inherently offensive. If it was, we'd all take offence to the same things.

• 56:10Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's right.

• 56:10Speaker 01

  Right, so it's not the thing.

• 56:12Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Right.

• 56:12Speaker 01

  It's something within me that's been brought up by the thing.

• 56:15Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Well, this is very Buddhist, right? It's like, you know, how, how we actually perceive the world creates the state of our being, whether we're suffering or we're happy.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  Our behaviours follow our beliefs, right? And I think this comes from a reliance on being right. Many of us have these fragile identities now, and I used to, right? So I hold my hands up, Mark, I'm not criticizing or judging anyone. I'm trying to inspire people to say, listen, I used to be like that, and I've completely changed it. And when you change it, your behaviours become better as a consequence. You can make changes that last. So next time you take offence to something, just again, take a pause, a bit like that three F exercise, take a pause. And the first thing I want you to think about is, oh, I wonder why that person sees the world so differently from me. It's a very different way of interacting with the world because

• 57:08Speaker 01

  one of the phrases, Mark, that has completely changed my life over the last five years. Is this idea that if I was that other person, I'd be behaving in exactly the same way as them. I E. If I was that person with their parents, with the bullying they had, with the caregivers they had, with their friends when they were growing up, whatever it might be, if I was them, I would see the world in the same way as them. Now, it doesn't mean that you have to agree with everyone. You can disagree with someone, but you don't have to take offence. And you know what? I'll tell you what I really learnt this about.

• 57:44Dr. Mark Hyman?

  You can have, you can have understanding.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  You can have understanding first and it changes your relationship with it. You don't have to agree. You know, Mark, about eight months ago, your current Surgeon General Vivek Murthy was in the UK. And he came on my podcast for the second time and we had a really fun conversation together. One of the things he said to me in that conversation back then was that one in six Americans are no longer talking to a family member because of a difference in political views.

• 58:12Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 58:13Speaker 01

  And I suspect that's even higher now. Now, as a Brit, right, I firstly acknowledge that I'm not an American citizen, okay? But from the outside and having cultivated an inner calm in myself over the past years, I find this really interesting and I feel this is very avoidable. So if someone's listening and they are no longer talking to that auntie because they voted for a different way than you, I would encourage you to just take a pause and go, oh, I wonder why my auntie, who I really like, who used to bring me presents every year when I was a kid or whatever it might be, why does she see the world so differently to me?

• 58:53Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, I mean, that's it. We've got to get back to curiosity, both for ourselves, it's compassionate curiosity about what is driving you to not take care of yourself.

• 59:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:02Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Or to do the things you're wanting to do that you're not doing. And also about others, like, like I said earlier, like I, I think we've gotten so polarized and so disconnected from one another and we haven't. Really taken on the basic human skill that's been around forever, which is like, who are you? Like, what do you care about? Why do you think this? Why does this matter to you? How did you come to this conclusion? How can you help me understand?

• 59:27Speaker 01

  And, and this will change your health and your behaviors. That's why I'm so passionate about this book markets. I'm trying to, I guess, in many ways, build on the foundation that you've created for many years and teaching people what they should be doing. Right. And of course I've written a few books on that as well, not as many as you. This, I've tried to go even further upstream for people and go, listen, you've got all this knowledge, but the changes for some of you are not lasting. Why? These are the missing areas that we don't realize. Like, there's a section there about criticism. You know, Mark, both you and I have large public profiles, right? So we have the-

• 1:00:04Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Everybody loves, nobody criticizes that.

• 1:00:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, but, but, but here's what I've learned, Mark, over the years. And I'd love to know your perspective on this. When I first came into the public eye with my television series 10 years ago, Doctor in the House, for the 99% of people who loved it and thought it was amazing to see what was possible. There was a 1% who gave some pretty vicious criticism. And for me, it was the first time I'd ever have to deal with that. And I, I honestly, I struggled back then, but I don't struggle today because what I've learned over the years, Mark, is it's not that I've grown a thick skin. It's not that at all. What it is, is I've learned that criticism only really bothers us to the extent with which we believe it about ourselves.

• 1:00:48Speaker 01

  Right? And this is about personal responsibility. It's me not thinking that the rest of the world is to blame for how I feel. It's me going, no, no, no, wait a minute. Sure. Maybe someone's left a comment that they shouldn't have left. Right? For example, this could be someone in their work. Maybe someone's made a comment about your work assignment that they shouldn't have done. But you can spend your life blaming them, or you can go, why is this bothering me so much? Oh, I kind of semi-believe what they said about me. And if you can learn to maybe in a journal every evening, this is what I did. I think last time I came on your show three years ago, Mark, I, I, I shared the story of Edith Eager, this 93-year-old lady, who, when she was 16 years old, she was in Auschwitz concentration camp.

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  That conversation changed me, literally changed the trajectory of my life because.

• 1:01:40Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I mean, the Holocaust is not a hoax. Sorry, I just have to say that. As a Jew, it's like, it's staggering to me how much hatred and antisemitism, and it's really about that. You know, how do we get Palestinians and Jews sitting together as human beings, talking, right? And connecting. I mean, that's really what we're talking about at the most.

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I mean, the, the, the key lesson for me, I won't share Edith's story again. If people want to hear that conversation, they can check it out on my podcast. It's, it, it, it will change your life. I pretty much guarantee it as it did for me. But what she taught me, Mark, and it's literally changed who I am. It's changed my inner state, how calm I feel, how peaceful I feel. She managed to reframe her whole experience in Auschwitz through the power of her mind. It was the last thing her mother said to her before she got murdered. You know, she got there, her parents were murdered within two hours and her mother said to her, Edith, listen, never forget, nobody can ever take from you the contents that you put inside your own mind.

• 1:02:41Speaker 01

  And basically the last words that Edith said to me in that conversation, Mark, a few years ago was, Rangan, I have lived in Auschwitz and I can still tell you the greatest prison you will ever live inside is the prison you create inside your own mind. And the penny dropped for me, Mark. I thought, oh my God, we all go around the world creating these disempowering stories every day. That person shouldn't have criticized me. I'm going to take offense to that. This driver was so stupid. You will not change your life in the long term with that approach. And for, for maybe five years after that conversation, certainly a few years, every evening, let me retake that. For about two years after that conversation, I did this practice that I write about in this book.

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  I would literally, once my children were in bed, in a journal, I'd go, when did I get emotionally triggered today? Okay. Instead of blaming the other person, I want to ask myself, why did that bother me? Oh, it reminded me of what my parents said to me. Oh, it reminded me of what my boss used to say about me, who I didn't like. Oh, it triggered an existing insecurity in me. And I tell you, bit by bit, if you do that exercise every night or several times a week, you are becoming a master in your internal world. You're no longer being a victim to the outside world. You're taking responsibility for your thoughts, your feelings, your triggers.

• 1:04:06Speaker 01

  When you do that, you cultivate inner calm, Mark. And with that inner calm, I promise you, you will no longer need to soothe your stress with sugar or alcohol as much. This is the missing link. I'm convinced of it for so many people.

• 1:04:23Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's true. I think you're right. I mean, I think we do. We do take too much of what other people say in the way that I think hurts us. Instead of realizing that there's something usually behind that story. And I don't know about you, but when I was younger, I was bullied a lot. I was a strange kid. I liked to read books. You know, reading about philosophy and, you know, not a kind of average kid. And I remember how painful it was because when people would say things or would be mean or would call me names, it just went in, you know, like a, like a knife. And then I, I kind of, you know, when I was 18, I left home and I just liked to cross Canada. And I ended up, you know, being by myself, backpacking around in Western Canada.

• 1:05:07Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Was camping out like in this like remote campsite in Banff in the Canadian Rockies. And there was this guy there named Bill, who was sort of this old English guy, curmudgeonly. And he was just kind of nasty. He just, he was like, just kind of saying nasty, snarky comments about me and stuff. And it hit me and I, and I had this awakening like at 18, it was like this moment where I realized, gee, no. There's two choices I have here, you know, either can be sort of hurt and offended and upset, or I can really ask two simple questions, like, is there some kernel of truth in what he's saying?

• 1:05:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:41Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That that is something I should look at about myself, that's a gift that can help me grow?

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:47Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Or is it something that's completely unrelated to me, that's from his own pain and his own discomfort? And I should have compassion for him. So it was like the choice between compassion or being grateful for a gift. And that changed my life forever.

• 1:06:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:03Dr. Mark Hyman?

  But then I stopped, I stopped having to be dependent on what other people thought about me. And I can tell you, you know, there's so much criticism about what I've done for the last forty years in functional medicine. Now it's like the moment, right? Now the world is sort of waking up to this now new way of thinking about health and medicine. And my, my book, Young Forever, was all about the science that's now flipping over. It's actually mirror everything we've talked about for decades. But in all that journey, it never bothered me because I knew what was true. Like, I knew that, that the work that I was doing was helping people. I knew this new model of medicine was making a difference.

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  You were minimally reliant.

• 1:06:42Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, I was minimally reliant on all these external things. And I was like, and, and, and it was really helpful. And I think so many people struggle with just their own internal mindset. And I think, you know, we don't talk about that enough in health. You know, I wrote about in my book, Young Forever. I mean, Tony Robbins talks a lot about mindset. He had a really good book called Life Force. There's a whole section there on mindset. That was just brilliant.

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  What you said was fascinating that, that, um, that there's a chapter in Make Change Your Life, I think it's chapter three, which is all about the reliance on being liked. Eight billion people on the planet, they're not all going to like you. I know it sounds obvious when I say it like that. It is simply impossible. If you keep changing who you are in order to be liked and accepted by others. I know what that's like. I did that for many years. I stopped about six or seven years ago. And now I've cultivated through all these practices, a place where actually I don't need to be liked anymore. Certainly not by the whole world. Sure. I want my wife to like me and my children to like me and my close friends to like me.

• 1:07:44Speaker 01

  But actually, as long as I'm speaking truth and I'm aligned, that as long as, as long as my inner values and my external actions are starting to match up. Actually, I've realised that it's okay to not be liked then. It's much better to not be liked for being in integrity with yourself than being liked and being out of integrity, which is what many of us do. And interesting what you said about that experience when you're 18, Mark, if I could just connect that to the start of this conversation, this external or via this internal. It's really fascinating. That person was criticizing you and making horrible comments to you, right? That's the external, right? The structure around you.

• 1:08:28Speaker 01

  And then there's the internal, how you deal with that. Now, of course, the world would be better if people weren't judging and criticizing, right? The world would be better if the food environment around us was better. It's the same principle if we take the macro. But even if the external is not where you want it to be, and I think that's the key message here, you can still cultivate and work on your inner environment, like you did with those questions, so that you're not as susceptible to the pressures from the outside.

• 1:08:57Dr. Mark Hyman?

  But you know what you're talking about, Ron, is you're talking about turning the locus of control from the outside world to the inside world.

• 1:09:03Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:09:04Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And there was a very important study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association a number of years ago about this concept of socioeconomic and social determinants of health. And, and, and in it, they talked about how not having a sense of agency or a locus of control was as big a risk factor for disease and death as smoking or diet or anything else. And I think that's true. And I think what you're, what you're offering people with your book, Make Changes That Last, is a simple set of concepts and tools and practices that help people reclaim the agency over their life and actually stop being so reliant on

• 1:09:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:41Dr. Mark Hyman?

  everything outside of them.

• 1:09:42Speaker 01

  And I want to just-

• 1:09:42Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Having a locus of control that empowers them to make those changes.

• 1:09:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, just two things there, Mark. First of all, we, we've got so much science supporting the importance of what happens when we have a sense of control. So there's a great study where they showed that people who have a strong sense of control in their lives. The happier, the healthier, they have better relationships, they earn more money, right? And again, that's why I think little things like routines and rituals, like a five-minute journaling practice, or a 10-minute meditation practice each morning, what these things do, beyond their actual physical health benefits, they ground you, they give you a sense of control in a fundamentally uncontrollable world, right? So power of routine. But the second thing

• 1:10:25Speaker 01

  I wanted to say is that because I've worked over the course of my career in so many diverse areas, I'm very passionate about making health and happiness, for that matter, accessible to everyone. Right? Some people say sometimes, oh, you know, health and wellness now is for the-

• 1:10:41Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I was a little disappointed, though, when you, when your goal was only 100 million people's lives changed. I'm like, why not 8 billion?

• 1:10:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:48Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Come on.

• 1:10:49Speaker 01

  You know, the, the, the, the point is-

• 1:10:51Dr. Mark Hyman?

  You're gonna go in low.

• 1:10:53Speaker 01

  The point I'm trying to make is that every single practice in this book, right? And there's a ton of practical exercises, they're all free.

• 1:11:01Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  No one has to spend any money on them. And that's really something that I'm passionate about because yes, I understand that certain things like in some areas, yes, it's hard to buy healthy food. I get it. You have to have a certain income. I accept that, right? But what I try to do in this book is even if you're in a dire situation and you're struggling, I try to put together a set of practices that were, were simple and that don't cost any money. So it's basically accessible to everyone.

• 1:11:29Dr. Mark Hyman?

  It's so beautiful. Thank you for writing this book, Make Change That Last: Nine Simple Ways to Break Free from the Habits That Hold You Back. And, you know, all of us have our demons, all of us have our struggles. And I think there's so many little nuggets of wisdom here. It's less about the what to do than understanding the why and the how.

• 1:11:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:47Dr. Mark Hyman?

  To actually get past the things that get in our way of actually being free and actually just being fully expressed in our life. Because, you know, we don't want to just treat disease for treating disease's sake. We want people to, to be able to have thriving, beautiful, engaged, happy lives filled with love, connection, meaning, purpose. And if you feel like shit, you can't do that.

• 1:12:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:05Dr. Mark Hyman?

  You know, and so your work is so wonderful. It's, it's so fresh, it's so unique. And it's, it simplifies things in a, in a, just an elegant way that sort of is not- About making people right or wrong. It's not about telling you what to do. It's just about an inquiry, inviting questions, about simple practices and they're free. So I think everybody needs to check it out. The book's out now. You can find it everywhere you get books. You can find out more about Dr. Chaddage at drchaddage.com. He's got a great podcast, which is called

• 1:12:35Speaker 01

  Feel Better Live More in all the usual places, Spotify, Apple, and on YouTube, of course.

• 1:12:39Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And I've been on that many times. It's a really wonderful, wonderful podcast. And I'm just so proud of what you've done over the last 10 years, who you've become, the voice you have. I've watched you from, you know, what do I do? I'm going on this TV show to like where you are now. And my heart is just so happy that you're a voice out there on the other side of the pond, telling the story and doing the work. So thanks for being on the podcast and good luck with this book. Cause I think it's gonna, it's gonna be a key, I think, lever for people to understand the ways that they can be empowered and start to do the simple things like trust themselves and understand how to navigate the obstacles to get in their way of actually having the life we want.

• 1:13:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, thanks, Mark. I appreciate all your support and thanks for having me back on your show. I appreciate it.

• 1:13:24Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Thanks for listening today. If you love this podcast, please share it with your friends and family. Leave a comment on your own best practices on how you upgrade your health and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and follow me on all social media channels at Dr. Mark Hyman. And we'll see you next time on The Doctor's Pharmacy. I'm always getting questions about my favorite books, podcasts, gadgets, supplements, recipes, and lots more. And now you can have access to all of this information by signing up for my free Mark's Picks newsletter at drhyman.com/marks picks. I promise I'll only email you once a week on Fridays and I'll never share your email address or send you anything else besides my recommendations. These are things that have helped me on my health journey and I hope they'll help you too. Again, that's drhyman.com/marks picks. Thank you again and we'll see you next time on The Doctor's Pharmacy.

• 1:14:12Dr. Mark Hyman?

  This podcast is separate from my clinical practice at the Ultra Wellness Center and my work at Cleveland Clinic and Function Health, where I'm the Chief Medical Officer. This podcast represents my opinions and my guests' opinions, and neither myself nor the podcast endorse the views or statements of my guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only. This podcast is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional. This podcast is provided on the understanding that it does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services. If you're looking for your help in your journey, seek out a qualified medical practitioner. You can come see us at the Ultra Wellness Center in Lenox, Massachusetts. Just go to ultrawellnesscenter.com. If you're looking for a functional medicine practitioner near you, you can visit ifm.org and search "find a practitioner database."

• 1:14:55Dr. Mark Hyman?

  It's important that you have someone in your corner who is trained, who's a licensed healthcare practitioner, and can help you make changes, especially when it comes to your health. Keeping this podcast free is part of my mission to bring practical ways of improving health to the general public. In keeping with that theme, I'd like to express gratitude to the sponsors that made today's podcast possible. When it comes to supplements, you only want the best for your body, the kind with the highest quality, cleanest, and most potent ingredients you can get. That's exactly what you'll find at my supplement store, where I've hand-selected each and every product to meet the most rigorous standards for safety, purity, and effectiveness. These are the only supplements I recommend to my patients, and they're also what I use myself. Whether you want to optimize longevity or reduce your disease risk, or you're looking

• 1:15:39Dr. Mark Hyman?

  to improve your sleep, blood sugar, metabolism, gut health, you name it, drhyman.com has the world's best selection of top-quality, premium supplements, all backed by science and expertly vetted by me, Dr. Mark Hyman. So check out drhyman.com, because when it comes to your health, nothing less than the very best will do. That's drhyman.com, D-R-H-Y-M-A-N dot com.