Hue Jackson Same As Brian Flores?

FOLLOW THE PIVOT PODCAST: MERCH | https://pivotpodcast.com YOUTUBE | https://www.youtube.com/thepivotpodcast INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/thepivot TWITTER | https://twitter.com/thepivot TIKTOK | https://tiktok.com/@thepivot FACEBOOK | https://www.facebook.com/thepivotpodcast FOLLOW HAPPY DAD: https://www.instagram.com/happydad FIND HAPPY DAD: https://www.happydad.com/find The Audacity of HOPE... With the recent news of Brian Flores coming out with a lawsuit against the NFL, other coaches and players are speaking up too. During a phone conversation earlier today (published on @thepivot), Fred and Ryan talked to Coach Jackson to ask him about his tweet supporting Flores and reassuring his stance and legal action against the NFL. The tweet alluded to the fact that Jackson has evidence of similar situations happening to him during his short tenure with Cleveland and willing to offer those materials to strengthen his case. Former NFL Head Coach Hue Jackson joins the Pivot to talk about his experience of being a black coach in the NFL and similar situations he was faced with while working with the Cleveland Browns and other teams around the league. "They don't want to hire people who look like us," Coach Jackson tells the guys. Ryan, who played 8 years for Coach Mike Tomlin, says it takes a special person to be able to be a leader of all men, especially at the NFL level and he commends Tomlin on being that person all these year but also understands that Coach T did what he had to do to win. Jackson pushed back a little on Ryan saying he wished Tomlin did more to bring black coaches under his tree. The episode goes further to explain Hue's role in HBCU's and how that may be the only future black coaches have in succeeding. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  College football is back. So Hilton called to me, the superstition concierge, to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you. Want to make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey? Oh, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching band wake-up call at 5:55 and 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  What's happening? What's happening, my brothers? We're here fresh, coach. Uh-huh, you know it. Grambling, that's what we do, baby. Yeah, yeah.

• 0:41Ryan Clark?

  Okay. That's all I asked for.

• 0:43Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 0:44Ryan Clark?

  That's all I asked for, my dog. I love the letterman, too, boy. That's hard.

• 1:11Ryan Clark?

  Welcome to the pivot. You know how it is, man. Where we start ain't where we finish, and the finish ain't always the end. I got my dog Fred Taylor, Channing Crowder, and we are so excited to have Coach Hugh Jackson. Now, Hugh, I'm gonna start off and be real. I feel like you've gotten some raw deals in the league. And I know, you know, a lot of times, people attribute that to our race, to our color, to the allegiance we feel to one another. But I know how to look at a guy that's in Oakland and doesn't have a losing season. I know how to look at a guy that's in Cleveland and deals with circumstances and things that doesn't say he was put in the best situation to succeed.

• 1:54Ryan Clark?

  When you think back on your NFL head coaching career, you know, do you feel like you were put in positions to succeed at all times in all organizations?

• 2:06Speaker 01

  No, I don't. I mean, obviously in Oakland, there's no question I was. I mean, I was Al Davis's last head coach.

• 2:12Ryan Clark?

  But you succeeded though there to me.

• 2:14Speaker 01

  Absolutely, and I had an unbelievable relationship with him.

• 2:17Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  And most coaches at 8-8 don't get fired.

• 2:21Ryan Clark?

  Mike Tomlin, who I believe is a Hall of Fame coach.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  Unbelievable.

• 2:24Ryan Clark?

  The thing they constantly say about him is he doesn't have losing seasons, which you didn't.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. But it was interesting because there, the last game of the regular season, we were playing to host a playoff game.

• 2:36Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  We're playing the Chargers at home, and we just didn't get it done.

• 2:40Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  But at the same time, Mark Davis was gonna take over the team. How involved he had been to that part, I don't know.

• 2:47Ryan Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  But I know he wasn't around much, but I think he was relying on others to help him make decisions.

• 2:54Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  And I think what happened was, they made a decision to go in a different direction.

• 2:59Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  Which is understandable. I mean, you gotta start fresh, wanna start fresh, but normally...

• 3:04Ryan Clark?

  But Hugh, I hear you started fresh though?

• 3:06Speaker 01

  But Ryan, when you fall, this is the hard part. I understood that, but what was hard for me is, I couldn't get another job anywhere.

• 3:14Ryan Clark?

  Wow.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  So that's what was interesting, so normally...

• 3:16Ryan Clark?

  So you're talking about like just from a head coaching standpoint?

• 3:18Speaker 01

  Yes. So now when you leave from head coach, you normally, okay, you get let go, you normally go be an offensive coordinator.

• 3:23Ryan Clark?

  100%. Okay. If you've been a head coach, you fall right down there.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, or you go coach the quarterback somewhere. Well, that wasn't the case. I had to get a lifeline thrown to me by my best friend Marvin Lewis to say, "Hugh, come coach on defense."

• 3:35Ryan Clark?

  Wow.

• 3:36Speaker 01

  I coached on defense. I coached in the secondary, and I was assistant special teams coach.

• 3:41Ryan Clark?

  Well, here's the thing is though, if you can coach, you can coach.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 3:43Ryan Clark?

  If you can coach ball, you can coach ball.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  No doubt, but...

• 3:44Ryan Clark?

  But you shouldn't have had to do that though.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 3:46Ryan Clark?

  You feel me?

• 3:47Speaker 01

  That's my point. And so I think for minority coaches, that's hard, because if you ascend to these top level, become a head coach on offense, where do you go when it doesn't work out?

• 3:59Fred Taylor?

  You come down one notch.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  You're supposed to.

• 4:01Fred Taylor?

  The opportunity is still there. They come down to OC or DC, whatever that might be, but it's not so much. For the minority coach.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 4:10Fred Taylor?

  And that's a shame.

• 4:11Ryan Clark?

  And Coach, what are like, is there anything more you could do? Like, if you look at it, because once there's a problem, you're looking at it like, I'm a head coach and I'm not getting a coordinator opportunity like most people do. Like, so the problem's there. And we know the problem's there.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 4:27Ryan Clark?

  And so do you do more? Like, do you reach out? Like, what happens from the standpoint when you're sitting at home chilling drinking this amazing tequila?

• 4:34Speaker 01

  Bro, it's so fine. So fine.

• 4:37Ryan Clark?

  Because like, you're sitting at home chilling, like, what is the next step? Like, what more did you have to do than a coach to head it up?

• 4:42Speaker 01

  Well, the next step is, is that you do, you reach out to your peers, right? You start calling and letting people know you're available, that you want to coach. Normally, when you get like, go as a head coach, that coach has to make a difficult decision. Does he really want to go coach again? Or does he need a chance to just exhale for a minute? Well, I didn't need a chance to exhale. It was my first year.

• 5:05Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, one year, bro. Yeah, yeah.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  We were eight and eight, and we had some major players get hurt, Darren McFadden and Carson Palmer.

• 5:11Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  I mean, it was difficult, okay? Because Jason Campbell was playing extremely well, he gets hurt. And you have Darren McFadden gets hurt. And we have some other receivers get hurt. We have some guys on defense get hurt. So I understood it, but I thought we were going to get a chance to see it through. Because for two years in a row, with me being there, we became eight and eight. So the year before, on offense, we went from 31st to 6th.

• 5:33Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 5:34Speaker 01

  And then the next year, we're in the top 10 in offense, losing our quarterback, with Carson Palmer coming in.

• 5:39Ryan Clark?

  You look at a guy like Matt LaFleur.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:41Ryan Clark?

  Right, Matt LaFleur gets the Green Bay job, and the Tennessee Titans are 27th in offense. No, I didn't say that wrong, not second or seventh. They're 27th.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:54Ryan Clark?

  And he becomes the head coach. Do you think a lot of times, that's because of familiarity, right? Because I'm always trying to distance myself from racism.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Right.

• 6:05Ryan Clark?

  In the sense of ownership. And the way that they see executives, and the way executives see coaches. And you see a guy like Matt LaFleur, who inherits Aaron Rodgers. I can't coach offense. I could coach Dan Aaron Rodgers.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  Absolutely, you could.

• 6:20Ryan Clark?

  Right, and so when you look at the way hiring takes place in the NFL and you talk about, okay, I'm a head coach at Oakland that goes 8-8. With all the difficulties that I have, Dan Quinn, head coach in Atlanta, he's obviously done it, he did a great job. Right away, he's the DC in Dallas. Guess what he is right now? A head coaching candidate. What do you think is the disconnect between executives and the minority head coaches as it is opposed to the white head coaches?

• 6:54Speaker 01

  I think it's very obvious, Ryan. We don't look like them. People are really interested in hiring people that they have something connected to them. And I'm not gonna just make it about race.

• 7:09Ryan Clark?

  No, no, I told you that's what you're saying.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  But at the same time, it looks that way.

• 7:13Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 7:14Speaker 01

  I mean, and that's unfair. Because for the minority, my minority brothers, they struggle to get these opportunities. I struggled to get these opportunities. I mean, I was the coach of the year in Cincinnati. Pro Football Writers Coach of the Year.

• 7:28Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  I go to Cleveland, and I will say this because I mean it. So the same people that were a part of me being 1-31 are the same people that's running the organization today. So that tells you they must have did something right. How can they still be there if I couldn't be there?

• 7:43Fred Taylor?

  Let me read a quote. "I think I became the Fogger because that was the narrative. The truth needs to come out for other minority coaches. They need to know the pitfalls out there. My story has affected some of their futures." So when you look at the rebellious players, the Antonio Browns and any players that have been outspoken, right, about the NFL and what they believe is considered being blackballed, right? With that, a lot of these players, there's no coming back from that.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 8:14Fred Taylor?

  Here you are at an HBCU in Grambling. I know you're gonna do your thing. And I know you have aspirations to continue, maybe at some point, to get back to, you know, the upper, upper echelon because you're an amazing coach, an amazing leader. And I think you're a great motivator as well. You aspire to get back in the NFL at some point. Do you think you've been completely blackballed out of that league?

• 8:39Speaker 01

  I do. I don't think there's a chance for me to go back.

• 8:43Ryan Clark?

  At any position, though, you?

• 8:44Speaker 01

  No, because if it was, I would have already done it. I'm gonna say it again. I was pro football writers, offensive coach of the year in 2015.

• 8:52Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  So you had Cleveland for two and a half years with minimal talent, not very good. And finally, when you get talent, because you can't overcome the losing the first two years. You never survive as the head coach through losing. It just doesn't work that way.

• 9:08Fred Taylor?

  How much say did you have in getting that talent?

• 9:11Speaker 01

  Really?

• 9:14Ryan Clark?

  No, I think people need to be there, no, Fred. That's a great question.

• 9:17Fred Taylor?

  But I answered, I asked questions for...

• 9:19Speaker 01

  No, I did not have say until year three, when John Dorsey came, that I felt like my voice was heard. Because they were into a process that they wanted to do. Had nothing to do about what me or the assistant coaches wanted, or the scouts wanted. They were gonna do what they did. And my disappointment, it still has led them to where they are today.

• 9:40Fred Taylor?

  You have head coaches that have certain philosophies, but they don't have say in the selections and the draft picks.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 9:48Fred Taylor?

  How much of that is a hindrance?

• 9:49Ryan Clark?

  I have an idea of how I want to put my imprint on a football team, but you're not letting me shop for what I need.

• 9:57Fred Taylor?

  For example, a great example would be Bill Belichick.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 10:01Fred Taylor?

  Like, who knows that Belichick wants a Wes Welker?

• 10:04Ryan Clark?

  Right, that's real, bro.

• 10:05Fred Taylor?

  In a free agency pickup.

• 10:06Ryan Clark?

  He knows it.

• 10:06Fred Taylor?

  You know what? He knows it.

• 10:08Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 10:08Fred Taylor?

  Because he has that say and that reach. But certain coaches don't have that opportunity.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  Most coaches, we're master teachers.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  And we become good to be good enough to be get head coaching jobs because of what we do. Whether you're an offensive specialist or a defensive specialist. Why, when you become a head coach, now you don't know what it takes to put on a team to win?

• 10:31Ryan Clark?

  Within your room, right? Whether you're a wide receiver coach, DB coach, quarterback coach. How much say do you have on where guys are positioned in the room? And who remains in the room? Like when you're in camp and you guys are in those huge meetings where you're talking about personnel. If I'm a DB coach, can I say, you know what? I like Ryan Clark. I like Troy Polamalu. I like this guy. I like this guy. This fifth guy, I don't need as much as I need that fifth corner.

• 10:58Fred Taylor?

  Just because he got on black and yellow and yellow, stop reliving that shit, man. Troy Polamalu, Ryan Clark, Brian McFadden.

• 11:06Channing Crowder?

  I recruited Ryan. I recruited Ryan in USA.

• 11:10Ryan Clark?

  You know what's so crazy? It's like when you hang around dudes who didn't win Super Bowls.

• 11:16Ryan Clark?

  Like they can't airdrop back on that. Freddie, they carried Ryan to the Super Bowl.

• 11:24Ryan Clark?

  Your team, you were so sorry and your team was so sorry, they couldn't carry you to the Super Bowl.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  It was the AFC Championship game. It was the Baltimore Ravens against the Pittsburgh Steelers. There is a guy sitting in this room that hit Willis McGahey in the middle of the field and I thought something bad happened.

• 11:48Fred Taylor?

  Change the game.

• 11:48Speaker 01

  It was this man hitting.

• 11:49Fred Taylor?

  You need those moments.

• 11:51Speaker 01

  Because, and I never thought I would see it coming. Because we all know Ryan wasn't the biggest of guys.

• 11:58Ryan Clark?

  Why you gotta do that?

• 11:59Speaker 01

  That man was tough.

• 12:00Channing Crowder?

  No, but he, he did have a big heart, but he has a little body.

• 12:06Fred Taylor?

  That's okay. I can vouch for that.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  Well, you know, he played the game the way it was meant to be played and obviously, and he played with some really good players.

• 12:15Channing Crowder?

  But Coach, have you ever seen the movie Life?

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, I have.

• 12:19Channing Crowder?

  Where, where can't get right when he got the, when that dumb dumb mistake? I don't think Ryan's eyes were open. I just think he ran up on Willis and just.

• 12:30Ryan Clark?

  So here's what's crazy and you know players, right? And you know, y'all guys know too, it's like we're the most self-aware people in the world.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 12:38Ryan Clark?

  Which also makes us insecure. You know what I'm saying? And so like not being drafted, I always felt like my positives, I had to accentuate. And I was doing some stuff for Mo Wells and his DBs and different things like that. And so the drill I had him doing was, I was like, okay, you went to Alabama, I want you to go draw your favorite blitz. Right? So he draw the blitz and I'd call another one's name. I was like, I want you to go draw it now. Because to me, it said, it tells me how well you can explain.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:10Ryan Clark?

  What you've done. And for the next person, it tells me how well you can regurgitate it. Can you digest it and give it back?

• 13:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:17Ryan Clark?

  Right? And so everybody that got on the board, I always knew more about it than them. And I would ask them extra questions and be like, okay, did you listen to me ask him this? Did he say this? Okay, what about when it goes in motion? And what I always explain to people is, I knew what I wasn't. I knew I wasn't tall. I knew I wasn't big. I knew I wasn't fast, but I was smart. Right? Like if I saw it, I never forgot it. And I knew what I was tough. And so my thing was, if it was ever an opportunity where I had to show if I was tougher than a Fred Taylor, if I was tougher than a Channing Crowder, I had to do that. Like I had to win. And if I couldn't win, I had to knock myself out trying. The same thing. We went to walkthroughs after the meetings. I was loud as hell. I made every check because I needed people to know, like, that was my positive.

• 14:03Ryan Clark?

  And I think in the league, and especially as a coach, right? We all find a way to survive. Like every day is an interview and you're trying to find a way to survive. So for you, Hugh, when you know the perception of African-American coaches, when you know the difference in evaluating the success of African-American coaches. Like right now, Mike Tomlin is still a head coach for one reason. He's never had a losing season.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 14:31Ryan Clark?

  And that's the level of excellence they have to have. What sort of pressure does that put on a head coach though? To know that you can't fail, right? Because we've seen coaches get opportunities to fail.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 14:44Ryan Clark?

  And then eventually they say, you know what? If they were to fire that coach then, he never gets to that point. Like a Jim Harbaugh at Michigan.

• 14:51Speaker 01

  But you know what, Ryan? It's bigger than that. So think about what you men just said.

• 14:54Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  So why would a minority coach ever take a job or put himself in a situation where he's gonna lose?

• 15:04Speaker 01

  That makes no sense.

• 15:05Channing Crowder?

  Because he can't get a job otherwise, though, Hugh.

• 15:07Speaker 01

  No, no, but my point is, but think about it. But no, I said, put himself in a situation where he's set up to lose. He's not gonna do that. The jobs are too hard to come by. And in your contract, it doesn't say lose. You get paid for winning.

• 15:21Channing Crowder?

  Period. You don't get paid to try.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  Thank you, so you're not gonna put yourself and take a job where you know you're gonna lose. Nobody's gonna do that. Nobody that's a minority coach would ever do that. And if he did, he's fighting to make sure he doesn't lose. And Ryan, you brought up about the players in the room. Do you get a chance to make those decisions? All depends on what the head coach's contract says. That's what everybody gotta understand. You can say those things, but the voice is determined by what's in that contract for the head coach. Assistants can say whatever they want. That might not mean nothing.

• 16:02Channing Crowder?

  Coach, you've been in that situation, and I'm so, I'm intrigued by this. If you don't have the Bill Belichick pool, you don't have the guys that get to pick the groceries and make the dinner. Like, how does that happen on draft night after free agency? They walk into Hugh Jackson's office and tell you, this is what you have. Like, there's no, like, you have no pool on that stuff? They draft, they free, they pick up free agents, they give them this crazy money, and they tell you, deal with this?

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Coach, you signed up to coach the team. Your contract says, coach the team. Make a decision about the 53. The general manager has final say. Upper management has final say. But we're gonna do it collaborative. We're gonna do it together.

• 16:49Channing Crowder?

  Okay.

• 16:49Speaker 01

  That's the word, but it's not collaborative.

• 16:51Channing Crowder?

  What's the conversation like on a draft night, or like through the draft process?

• 16:55Speaker 01

  It sounds collaborative. It sounds like we're working together. But you're not part of those midnight conversations that upper management is having.

• 17:04Fred Taylor?

  You play spades, right?

• 17:05Speaker 01

  Oh, I do, I'm pretty good at it.

• 17:06Fred Taylor?

  You look across the table and say...

• 17:07Channing Crowder?

  You got two in the possible?

• 17:09Fred Taylor?

  I got teamed up with this, man.

• 17:13Fred Taylor?

  Like, this is the hand I'm dealt. I gotta, I gotta play it.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  But that's what we do.

• 17:18Fred Taylor?

  The whole time, you're like, oh.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  But that's what we men, minority men do. We take the hand that's dealt and we go, we're gonna show you. But let me tell you something. Minority men, I'll tell you right now, don't do that. If you're gonna sit where I've sat, don't do it.

• 17:33Ryan Clark?

  It always seems, and, and this is totally because the way I feel sometimes, that, like, Mike T. got put in a great position, I think, because of ownership. Right? It's, it's the Rooneys, and they had the Rooney Rule, and they gave Mike T. the opportunity. He wasn't the favorite, but they listened to him and said, this fits Pittsburgh. Right? And so he got that exceptional opportunity. I feel like it's a lot of opportunities that are lose-lose situations, and then as they go forward with those coaches, they don't do the right things to help them succeed. Do you think minority coaches, though, have the opportunity to be Josh McDaniels and say, you know what? I know I got Indy.

• 18:17Ryan Clark?

  I don't want it, because it's not right for me. Or do you feel like when a minority coach does get that opportunity to be a head coach, he has to take that job right now?

• 18:28Speaker 01

  He always, he almost has to take it.

• 18:30Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  Because it might not ever come around.

• 18:32Ryan Clark?

  Like, see, and that's, and that's a scary thing.

• 18:34Speaker 01

  You just say something, I hate to do this, but I gotta go there. Because you just talked about Pittsburgh. And Mike is a good friend, one of the most, uh, one of the best coaches probably in the history of the league.

• 18:47Speaker 00

  College football is back. So Hilton called to me, the superstition concierge, to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you. Want to make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey? Oh, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching band wake-up call at 5:55 and 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  Where is Mike Tomlin's tree?

• 19:20Ryan Clark?

  I agree with that.

• 19:20Speaker 01

  And I'm not mad at him for it. Because here's the difference.

• 19:23Ryan Clark?

  I love him.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  Mike did what he needed to do to be successful. I'm not mad about that. I can never, if Mike says, "This is my blueprint on how we're gonna win at Pittsburgh, and these are the kind of men I need to lead that," then that's what you do. I'm not running from that. But when you look in the AFC North, you think about Marvin Lewis, 17 years. Mike Tomlin, John Harbaugh. I've worked at almost every place in that division other than Pittsburgh. But my point is, we talk about helping and making a difference? It takes, in my opinion, someone like Mike Tomlin to say. And he interviewed me, he interviewed Pep, he interviewed several people.

• 20:03Ryan Clark?

  So they say Austin's up for the DC job now.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  That'd be great. I hope he gets it.

• 20:08Ryan Clark?

  No, no, no, no. Hugh, for me, because I love Mike T., like, that's my friend. I feel like that has to happen. I feel like that's the one thing missing from his coaching legacy, right? To add an African-American into the group of the next head coaches. And this may be rude. Bruce Arians, in my opinion, has more of an effect on the next African-American head coach than a Mike Tomlin does.

• 20:36Speaker 01

  How can we, as minority men, raise up our other minority men if we don't hire them?

• 20:44Channing Crowder?

  You brought up something that's why I put my hand up. I said, "I need to be next, Coach." I was in kindergarten again.

• 20:49Ryan Clark?

  What I thought that was, though, I thought you was praising.

• 20:51Channing Crowder?

  Oh, OK, yeah, I'm praising.

• 20:52Ryan Clark?

  I'm in church a lot. Your hands, you got big hands, too, bro.

• 20:56Channing Crowder?

  You got little everything. Get the hell out of here.

• 20:59Ryan Clark?

  First off, you, it's an HBCU show. I'm gonna let that go.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  You haven't even went there yet.

• 21:05Ryan Clark?

  I'm gonna let that go.

• 21:06Channing Crowder?

  I got one more thing, Coach. You said something that gets to me, and I've argued this for years. Coaching trees. Josh McDaniels went to Denver, failed, ran back to Daddy Belichick. Now he's gonna stay. Indy, he ain't even wanna touch. Matt Patricia failed. Bill O'Brien ran the Texans into the ground. As a successful coach, you said the phrase "coaching tree," and that's what set me off. What does a coaching tree mean to a coach?

• 21:30Speaker 01

  To me, what it means is that the head coach has developed his assistants.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  To put them in position so they can go chase their goals and dreams and aspirations. And that's why you're in the National Football League. Some guys have aspirations of becoming a head coach. Some guys don't. Some guys don't want that pressure. Some guys don't want that opportunity because I really believe when you look at the minority coaches, 101-year history of the league and it's been 1920 now. What does that tell you? I don't especially, I don't want to go over there because all of a sudden I might be unemployed.

• 22:09Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  Or my value may plummet way down and where I go from there. So I think it's very, very tough. But coaching trees of a Marvin Lewis where you talk about Leslie Frazier, Hugh Jackson, Mike Zimmer, Jay Gruden, you know what I'm saying? I mean, John Harbaugh, I come off a part of history too.

• 22:33Ryan Clark?

  So are you just talking about coaching trees of African-American coaches? In the sense of coaches, they allowed to be head coaches? Or African-American coaches, they're allowed to be head coaches? Because you think about a guy like a Tony Dungy.

• 22:48Speaker 01

  He just said it. 101 years, there's only 20 trees for African-American coaches.

• 22:52Ryan Clark?

  I'm saying, I'm saying though, you think about like a Tony Dungy, you think about like a Jim Caldwell.

• 22:56Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 22:56Ryan Clark?

  Right? A Lovey Smith.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:57Ryan Clark?

  A Herm Edwards.

• 22:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:59Ryan Clark?

  Mike Tomlin down the line.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  But Ryan, here's the key, look at this. They have those shows where all those other guys sit at the table and they fell off their trees and they talk about it.

• 23:10Ryan Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  I ain't seen a show with Marvin Lewis in history.

• 23:13Ryan Clark?

  But Marvin Lewis' tree is extensive though.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I haven't seen, I've seen Tony Dungy's, I want to believe I have, but I haven't seen every minority coach to put it out there to show that these men have done their, they've done their job.

• 23:28Ryan Clark?

  Is it about championships though?

• 23:29Speaker 01

  Is it?

• 23:30Ryan Clark?

  Right?

• 23:30Speaker 01

  Because if we're talking about the issue we're talking about right now, it's not about championships, it's about opportunity.

• 23:35Ryan Clark?

  I work in the business.

• 23:36Speaker 01

  I know you do.

• 23:37Ryan Clark?

  People who treat me, and I'm just gonna be straight up like the woke Negro. Because when it comes to opportunity to talk about minority coaches, right? Minority executives, minority owners. I'm always on 10 toes for us and I'm never gonna change, right? Because I know that it's 75% plus of us that play the game, right? Like I never change on that. And so my issue always is when you are Mike Tomlin, can you make hires to make sure your people, your people are elevated? Or do you have to make hires that allow you to keep your job?

• 24:16Speaker 01

  I don't think Mike has made hires that allows him to keep his job. I think Mike has a...

• 24:23Ryan Clark?

  I feel like he's made hires to make sure that his team can win football games.

• 24:26Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Because at the end of the day, that's really what he's responsible for.

• 24:30Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  Now, now, what I hope he does is that he is really vetted everything out and made sure that this is the right guy for him. And I said this earlier, I cannot get mad for a guy for that because let's just be honest. All of this is about winning and losing.

• 24:47Ryan Clark?

  It's about winning.

• 24:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:48Ryan Clark?

  You gotta win.

• 24:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:49Ryan Clark?

  Dude, you said it. The Raiders, you should have been fired. Cleveland, 131.

• 24:54Speaker 01

  You just said it. You don't win, absolutely.

• 24:56Ryan Clark?

  Winning and hiring minorities, can that be somewhere in the middle?

• 25:02Speaker 01

  What makes it difficult, and I hate to keep using Mike as an example, because I don't think it's fair, because he is seen as the most successful minority coach.

• 25:12Ryan Clark?

  Who you know why you gotta use him? Because he's all that's left.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  That's what I'm saying.

• 25:14Ryan Clark?

  That's the problem. He's all that's left.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  So I'm gonna say this to you. If Mike Tomlin doesn't hire one, why should anybody else? If Mike doesn't say this guy's good enough to work for me, I'm the winningest minority coach that's out here right now. If I can't find one, then why should he find one? They can't find one. You're not gonna find, and they're out, and they're out there.

• 25:37Ryan Clark?

  So how do you feel about a guy like Bruce Arians?

• 25:40Speaker 01

  Who does find him.

• 25:41Ryan Clark?

  Who has B. Left, right? Who has Todd.

• 25:44Speaker 01

  Come on.

• 25:44Ryan Clark?

  Right? Who has Goody. Keith Armstrong. Right. All of these guys in Tampa, and I may have mentioned this, I worked on Monday at the Super Bowl. And they asked me, what was your most impressive thing about the weekend? I said, the fact that, other than Bruce Arians and Tampa Bay, everyone in leadership positions were African Americans. And what I said was, it showed that we could be leaders. Right? Because Hugh, there's a lot of people that know X's and O's.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 26:16Ryan Clark?

  Like, I'm gonna be honest with you, bro. I can get on the board right now with you, and me and you could have a great time.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 26:21Ryan Clark?

  You could talk about X's and O's, and I could be like, oh yeah, Hugh, you know, if I see you do this, I'm gonna do this, and I'm gonna do that. But it's a different thing to lead men.

• 26:28Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 26:29Ryan Clark?

  You know what I mean?

• 26:30Speaker 01

  It's a battle.

• 26:31Ryan Clark?

  I remember, bro. So my last year was in Washington, I'm 35. It's Jay Gruden's first year. Robert Griffin is a freaking freak show. He does something in one game, and Jay Gruden is like trying to work around Robert Griffin, but talk about him. So I stand up, I say, AJ, I was like, for real, bro? Like, stop this. I said, we all know who the [bleep] you're talking about. Right? You're talking about him. And he was like three rows down. And I was like, I don't really care, just like walk around him. I said, if you got an issue with him, if it's something he's doing that won't help us win, then say it. And if you won't say it, then don't bring it in front of us, because when you bring it in front of us, it feels fake.

• 27:13Ryan Clark?

  As an African American coach, do you feel like you can call out all 53 of the guys in the room, as a head coach in the league?

• 27:23Speaker 01

  Absolutely, I could. Because I earned that. Because I was always transparent. You have to be that way.

• 27:30Ryan Clark?

  What was your office like, though? Because the thing I loved about Mike T, so, it's me, my 12th year in the league, right? My 11th year was my best year ever. 12th year, man, we had like bad, we had some bad coaching, some bad corners, you know? We played New England. I ain't gonna lie, I played bad, Hugh. I was trying to do too much.

• 27:51Speaker 01

  We're too little.

• 27:53Ryan Clark?

  Channing.

• 27:54Fred Taylor?

  What you say?

• 27:54Ryan Clark?

  I hit harder than you. You don't have.

• 27:56Fred Taylor?

  You didn't hit.

• 27:57Ryan Clark?

  Channing.

• 27:57Channing Crowder?

  Now, listen.

• 27:58Ryan Clark?

  Channing.

• 27:59Channing Crowder?

  RC, RC.

• 28:00Ryan Clark?

  One hit on your highlight reel.

• 28:01Channing Crowder?

  RC, just listen.

• 28:02Ryan Clark?

  Harder than any of your lines.

• 28:03Channing Crowder?

  You were 85 yards deep.

• 28:05Ryan Clark?

  Channing, I probably have as many tackle for losses as you do.

• 28:08Channing Crowder?

  How much money you want to bet?

• 28:11Channing Crowder?

  How much money you want to bet?

• 28:12Ryan Clark?

  You coached at Cincy, Hugh.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  Yes, I did.

• 28:13Ryan Clark?

  Hugh, is it true, or is it false, that I can make a tackle on a run play at the line of scrimmage from the middle of the field?

• 28:22Speaker 01

  Oh, it's true.

• 28:23Channing Crowder?

  Tackling line of scrimmage.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  I watched him do it.

• 28:25Ryan Clark?

  And Hugh, when you went to play action and tried to throw NCAA, a pump scene, would I not be in the middle?

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Oh, he would.

• 28:32Channing Crowder?

  He would.

• 28:33Ryan Clark?

  I gotta give it to him.

• 28:34Channing Crowder?

  Can I get one?

• 28:35Speaker 01

  Yes, you can.

• 28:35Channing Crowder?

  Am I OK?

• 28:36Speaker 01

  You gotta give it to him.

• 28:37Channing Crowder?

  And Hugh, when you watched film, did you ever say, "Who is this sixth grader running around a safety?"

• 28:45Fred Taylor?

  So, speaking of sixth graders,

• 28:48Fred Taylor?

  they never stop. See, I'm.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  Channing was going to try to buy it. Because I want y'all to know.

• 28:57Channing Crowder?

  I didn't even lie, man.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  See, what they gotta understand, these other two guys on the set. Now, Channing, running backs I used to coach, we didn't want to go take him on in a hole. Because Channing was going to run through you, over the top of you. And when Fred got the ball, when the ball went to Fred's hand, everybody turned and looked the other way because everybody was afraid he was going to go score. First off, they were scared of Channing's teeth. Nothing else. Oh, my God.

• 29:22Ryan Clark?

  I'm gonna say this, though. I'm just being real. It's scary, bro.

• 29:26Channing Crowder?

  They were scared that if they touched you, they'd get sick and lose their organs.

• 29:30Ryan Clark?

  That's right.

• 29:30Channing Crowder?

  You had COVID in '01.

• 29:36Channing Crowder?

  You were patient zero.

• 29:38Ryan Clark?

  Shut up, mother.

• 29:39Speaker 01

  That All-Bread Monkey. Wait, All-Bread was supposed to be an HBCU show.

• 29:43Ryan Clark?

  Let me say this.

• 29:45Speaker 00

  College football is back. So Hilton called in me, the superstition concierge, to make your fan rituals a reality. Need a room to match your lucky number? We got you. Want to make sure our team doesn't wash your lucky jersey? Oh, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching band wake-up call at 5:55 and 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay.

• 30:15Ryan Clark?

  I'm so glad me and Fred started to correspond before we got to this point.

• 30:20Fred Taylor?

  For sure.

• 30:21Ryan Clark?

  Because I would always, I would be like, man, people would ask me, who's the best running back you ever played with? I was like, damn, Fred Taylor gave me fits.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  He was something.

• 30:28Ryan Clark?

  What he could do was just, it was just special to me.

• 30:33Speaker 01

  Put this man in the Hall of Fame.

• 30:34Ryan Clark?

  I agree.

• 30:35Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 30:35Ryan Clark?

  But I have a question though, too, Hugh. We talked about all these NFL head coaching jobs and all this stuff. You went through all of that and we've kind of got to the difficulties of being an African-American head coach in NFL. And I don't want to say this in a disrespectful way. It would almost seem that you are overqualified to be the head coach right now at an HBCU. But we do see the Deons and Eddie Georgias, and now we add you to that. What is that now adding to the HBCU experience?

• 31:08Speaker 01

  I'm at Grambling State University, where one of the greatest minority coaches in the history of football coach, Eddie Robinson.

• 31:17Fred Taylor?

  Yes, sir.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  One of the best ever. Walked those halls, led those players, created environments for those players to be great. So when I thought about, okay, Hugh, maybe somebody, my phone might ring and somebody say you get a chance to be a position coach in the National Football League, or you have a chance to go be the head coach.

• 31:40Ryan Clark?

  Big man.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  Went on the shoes, go in the museum where Eddie, they have an Eddie Robinson museum on campus.

• 31:47Ryan Clark?

  They should.

• 31:48Fred Taylor?

  I understand, I understand the legacy.

• 31:50Speaker 01

  So how do you not go take that program, watching what Deon's done, watching what Eddie will do, and say, how do I make Grambling State University better than both of those?

• 32:03Fred Taylor?

  Okay, so with that mindset and the legacy and you're painting the picture, right? A minute ago, we talked about the challenges of a minority coach inheriting a garbage team.

• 32:15Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 32:16Fred Taylor?

  Right, right? And now you're here at the HBCU where you lack resources. We got to do something about that. Because I recently saw Eddie George post something about hammer strength in their new locker room.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 32:28Fred Taylor?

  We got to get these companies that are able and capable to support these colleges behind, you know, people like you.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  You're going to laugh, Fred.

• 32:37Fred Taylor?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 32:37Speaker 01

  When I took the job on December 10th. Probably December 14th, you guys go check it.

• 32:43Fred Taylor?

  How was the interview process for that?

• 32:44Speaker 01

  It was amazing because Dr. Trevian Scott, who's the A.D.

• 32:49Fred Taylor?

  Okay.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  And President Gallo, who's our president, want to take Grambling State University football to a whole different level.

• 32:57Fred Taylor?

  You don't seek out a Hugh Jackson if you don't.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  Absolutely, they want to sketch.

• 33:00Fred Taylor?

  How?

• 33:01Speaker 01

  But because it's called resources, it's just what you said. So I did the unthinkable because that's just the way my mind think. I went on Instagram. I put out a post on Instagram.

• 33:13Fred Taylor?

  Use my name?

• 33:13Speaker 01

  All the Gram fans, I need your help.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  Come on and help me make this university what you guys want it to be, which is great.

• 33:24Fred Taylor?

  Yes.

• 33:24Speaker 01

  Let me tell you something, my Instagram box, whatever you want to call it, started to flood. I've had people walk in with TVs, checks, whatever you can think of. So here's my point, I get tired of hearing what HBCUs can't do.

• 33:41Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  It's time to get out of that.

• 33:43Fred Taylor?

  What they can do.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  Thank you, quit talking about what we can't do. Yeah, do we need to do it better? Yeah, does the process need to be better and all that? Yes, but there's too many alumni out there that want to see their school thrive, just like at Florida.

• 33:57Fred Taylor?

  So we talked about pressure.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 33:59Fred Taylor?

  And the only time I really speak up is when something hits me, I just get passionate. You know, I'm always.

• 34:03Speaker 01

  Come on, I know, you know me, yes.

• 34:05Fred Taylor?

  But pressure.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 34:07Fred Taylor?

  Right, as a minority coach on the other level, the same pressure.

• 34:12Speaker 01

  I feel like it's a different type of pressure.

• 34:14Fred Taylor?

  But it's still a greater pressure. They want to prove the chanting proud of the world wrong.

• 34:17Speaker 01

  Absolutely, I do too. And I want to prove him wrong. I want to prove him wrong because I heard what he said about HBCUs.

• 34:23Fred Taylor?

  Correct, yeah.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  I know what he said.

• 34:25Ryan Clark?

  Hey Hugh, can I say this Hugh? I'm gonna say this though, as a kid that grew up in Louisiana, in New Orleans, that frequented the Bayou Classic.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:35Ryan Clark?

  It was the culmination of football.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:38Ryan Clark?

  In my young life.

• 34:39Fred Taylor?

  It was the what of football?

• 34:40Ryan Clark?

  Combinational.

• 34:40Fred Taylor?

  I love it, I love it.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  And he said it right.

• 34:42Fred Taylor?

  We're gonna teach these kids at HBCU that word too.

• 34:45Ryan Clark?

  You know, like it was, and no disrespect to anybody else, it was black excellence to me.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:49Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 34:50Ryan Clark?

  You know, it was the best we could offer in football. And entertainment and in culture. How much pressure do you feel to bring that back? And also now you're competing with a Jackson State that has a Deion. A Tennessee State that has Eddie George. And now you bring Hugh Jackson into this, who's a former NFL head coach, period. No matter if it's 20 years down the line, that's always what'll be attached to your name. Is there a pressure associated with that in the sense that I want to get Grambling back to the Eddie Robinson days?

• 35:27Speaker 01

  That's all I, that's before I took the job. That's what my expectation is, is to get it back.

• 35:33Ryan Clark?

  It's so crazy. We talked Tyson Burdwell, he said the same thing.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  Well, here's the fun part. You guys talk about myself and Eddie and Deion. There's Willie Simmons, that's at FAMU. That's Eric Dooley, who left Prairie View A&M, that went to Southern. Keep it coming. Who's a heck of a coach. Keep it coming. There's Coach Maynard, who's at Alabama. Oh, my teammate Reggie Barlow. Thank you. Listen, listen, I don't think we're doing it right. Because let me tell you something, those men, they can coach. Right. Those guys are great football coaches. They might not have had the aspiration of going to coach in the National Football League. Maybe this was their dream right where they are right now, and they're doing it well. So, yeah, I need to beat the Deion Sanders. But you know what? I need to beat all the guys.

• 36:22Ryan Clark?

  Well, you're talking about try to get, try to continue Eddie Robinson's.

• 36:26Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 36:27Ryan Clark?

  Legacy.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:28Ryan Clark?

  And you're also trying to win football games. So you gotta put an offense together. You gotta do everything the other coaches do, but you're also carrying that torch that you have to carry. Isn't that tougher on you? Isn't that, that's not a harder job than the, than the normal coach? That's, that's coaching that, you know, somewhere that doesn't have that pressure?

• 36:46Speaker 01

  No, because that don't bother me. These are big shoulders. I've been through the war. I know what this is like. I failed at Cleveland. According to what people said.

• 36:57Channing Crowder?

  No, according to what you said.

• 36:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I did say that because you know what? Sometimes you gotta play the game, right? You know, I didn't fail at Cleveland. Are you kidding me? Go back and look at the team. Go back and look and ask me who had the decision to put them on the field. I have my own algorithm as a football coach. You understand what I'm saying? I know what players it takes. I was our coach in Cincinnati, but yet all of a sudden in Cleveland, I don't know what it takes to win? No, it don't look that way. Yeah, I didn't all of a sudden fall off the turnip truck and forget football in a freaking year. I know what it takes to win. You think that I was gonna put quarterbacks on my team that we had on our team in the beginning?

• 37:36Ryan Clark?

  Preach.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, come on now, let's wake up. Look, you know the media, Ryan, as well as anybody. They can, once you start that fire, it takes off and run. And that's the narrative that everybody can create when they want to.

• 37:49Fred Taylor?

  That's that flame he was talking about.

• 37:51Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, the flame, but he was, one more thing, this is my argument and this is my thing and I keep putting it, I put it on everybody.

• 37:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:57Channing Crowder?

  The resources. Because you've seen big schools, you now. So you're going to Instagram to try to get people.

• 38:04Speaker 01

  I have money. So if that's what it takes, if that's what it takes, I'm gonna do whatever it takes to get Grambling State University to be right on the echelon of where you think Florida is and everybody else. And I'm gonna ask all of this Gram fam, do in your pocket, come help us be the best we can be. Because that's all you can do is ask, all they can do is say no.

• 38:24Fred Taylor?

  And how could you not, how could you not support that? I mean, I'm here, sitting here as reserved, this is just my demeanor. But I hear the passion and the fact that he wants to not only get the HBCU and that, and Grambling State, you know, back on the map. He understands the challenges that's presented.

• 38:44Speaker 01

  So passionate though.

• 38:45Fred Taylor?

  The passion is there, but the pride, he's tucked aside.

• 38:49Speaker 01

  Fred, you know what I really want, you three? I want these minority coaches who feel like they can't go get it in the National Football League. Come on over here.

• 38:59Fred Taylor?

  I love it.

• 39:00Speaker 01

  That's the thing. Come on over here to the HBCU world.

• 39:03Channing Crowder?

  That's what you gotta do, bro.

• 39:04Speaker 01

  Where these are your people. You get to coach the players that everybody says that sometime in National Football League, we can't coach.

• 39:12Ryan Clark?

  Like, the thing we talk about here, obviously, it's the name of the show. It's about the pivot. You're a coach that built his way up to be a head coach in the NFL.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  Twice.

• 39:22Ryan Clark?

  Twice. And now you hit a roadblock where it's not office coordinator, it's not quarterback coach, these things. So you made the ultimate pivot to now being an HBCU head coach.

• 39:34Speaker 01

  The first one that's ever done it.

• 39:36Ryan Clark?

  So tell me why that pivot's important to you.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  Because I think it's gonna open the door for these minority coaches that really wanna be head coaches and know they have the skill to do it, to say, wait a minute, I can pivot from the National Football League if they're not gonna allow me to do it here. Watch what Hugh Jackson just did and watch that program soar and watch the resources start to flow into Grambling State because they do have a Hugh Jackson there and people wanna be a part of that. Oh, by the way, Grambling State used to be the King Kong of HBCU football. Then why can't they be again?

• 40:18Fred Taylor?

  I'm gonna close it like this, Hugh, cuz I think this is vital. What's the impetus? Is it the young men? Or is it the HBCU? Is it the legacy? Or is the fact to try and show, prove that you can do it and be successful on that level? I wanted to be transparent that people that are seeing this, parents, subscribers, whoever it might be, I want them to know why he's doing this. Because, one, it could be, I want these young men to come here and have an amazing experience and let them realize that they're not missing out on anything.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 40:55Fred Taylor?

  You know?

• 40:56Speaker 01

  By going to Power Five schools.

• 40:57Fred Taylor?

  Power Fives, exactly.

• 40:58Ryan Clark?

  What he just said is true.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  This is not about...

• 41:02Fred Taylor?

  What is it really about?

• 41:03Speaker 01

  This is not about me proving anything to anybody.

• 41:06Ryan Clark?

  Hugh, it gotta be about you something, though.

• 41:08Speaker 01

  No, no, no. Because I'm 56 years old.

• 41:11Ryan Clark?

  You look good, boy.

• 41:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you.

• 41:12Ryan Clark?

  Damn, black don't crack.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  Thank you, thank you. I've already did all of that. Here's the key. Why can't our minority young men?

• 41:21Ryan Clark?

  Okay.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  Go to an HBCU? Get a great education? And graduate and play great college football?

• 41:29Ryan Clark?

  Hmm.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  Be in an environment to where they can grow? As young men? On and off the field? And be prepared? To go play? And chase their goals in the National Football League? Because we create the right environment. Why can't they do that? That's what it's about.

• 41:48Ryan Clark?

  Bottom line, man? You showed us what pivoting is.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:52Ryan Clark?

  Like, where you start? Isn't where you finish.

• 41:55Speaker 01

  No.

• 41:56Ryan Clark?

  And sometimes? When you think you've got to the end of the line? There's more road to go. So, man, we appreciate you. Uh, all the best to Grambling. Can your boy get, like, sideline tickets to the Bayou Classic though?

• 42:08Speaker 01

  Listen, here's my invitation to you, man. We're going to have a spring game.

• 42:13Ryan Clark?

  Can I come?

• 42:14Speaker 01

  I would love nothing more than for you men to be there? And announce our spring game.

• 42:19Ryan Clark?

  Done.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 42:20Ryan Clark?

  Done.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  Because you know why?

• 42:22Ryan Clark?

  Is the Bay gonna be there too, though?

• 42:23Speaker 01

  You better believe they are.

• 42:24Ryan Clark?

  Done.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  And I'ma tell you why. Because? I want people to believe that they can be? Ryan Clark?

• 42:31Ryan Clark?

  Hmm.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  And Channing Crowder? And Fred Taylor? That they can someday have their own podcast? After? Having an unbelievable career in the National Football League.

• 42:41Ryan Clark?

  Oh, that's done, man. That's what I'm gonna be lying.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  I need you, man, for so many different reasons. Because I want these young men to see, you can have success? In a lot of different ways.

• 42:51Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 42:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, the National Football League might be their reality?

• 42:54Ryan Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:54Speaker 01

  But it might not be.

• 42:55Ryan Clark?

  Correct. That's the real.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  And where are you gonna pivot in your life as a young man? There we go. To become successful?

• 43:01Ryan Clark?

  Hey, so, you know what I'm saying, this? This is the first time we ever did this. This is damn Hugh Jackson.

• 43:09Speaker 01

  And Hugh, Hugh.

• 43:10Ryan Clark?

  All love.

• 43:36Speaker 05

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. No two football players are exactly alike, and the same is true off the field. That's why State Farm gets to know you, so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. And like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.