Pod Insights My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark 472 - Give Me All My Words About this episode This week, Georgia covers The Beauty Queen Killer and Karen tells the story of The Tipster.
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Transcript 17,273 words · 5 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:06 Georgia Hardstark? In New Orleans, truckers kept getting sideswiped the exact same way.
0:09 Speaker 01 When a man is found murdered under questionable circumstances related to these accidents, that's when the rubber hits the road.
0:16 Georgia Hardstark? And what the feds uncover is a complex scheme of staged wrecks, financial fraud, and a pair of conspiring lovers behind it.
0:23 Speaker 01 This is a story about fake accidents that led to real consequences.
0:27 Georgia Hardstark? Listen to Over My Dead Body: Operation Sideswipe wherever you get your podcasts.
0:31 Speaker 01 Audible subscribers can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now.
0:35 Georgia Hardstark? Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Goodbye.
0:57 Speaker 01 Hello and welcome.
0:59 Georgia Hardstark? To my favorite murder.
1:01 Speaker 01 That is Georgia Hardstark.
1:02 Georgia Hardstark? That is Karen Kilgariff. So we just got back from South by Southwest in Austin.
1:08 Speaker 01 Texas.
1:08 Georgia Hardstark? Texas. Thank you to iHeart for bringing us out there for the festivities and the iHeart Awards, which was so much friggin' fun and awesome to see all these. Like, when do you see other podcasters? Never. We're always in tiny rooms alone.
1:21 Speaker 01 We got to hang out extensively with Payne Lindsay.
1:24 Georgia Hardstark? Always a pleasure.
1:25 Speaker 01 Just one of the greats. Such a cool, fun friend.
1:28 Georgia Hardstark? Yes, and Sabrina as well, of course. They're so fun to hang out with.
1:32 Speaker 01 And Sabrina's from Two Girls, One Ghost, right?
1:35 Georgia Hardstark? Yes, yes. Which is so fun.
1:36 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:38 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, that was awesome.
1:38 Speaker 01 It was very nice. And you may have heard already, we actually won an award, which I've told Georgia this and many people since it happened. We were genuinely so shocked that we were not prepared.
1:50 Georgia Hardstark? None.
1:51 Speaker 01 And every time people say that, when they accept an award, I'm always so grossed out at like, of course you thought of something to say.
2:00 Georgia Hardstark? No, and normally we do, like, okay, real quick, if we're gonna win, we're gonna say, I think this, think this person, think that person, blah, blah, blah. Great. And then Joe Mangiello was up there for the first award.
2:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:10 Georgia Hardstark? And it's our category. And I was like, oh, no. What if we, and then he announces our name?
2:15 Speaker 01 Yes.
2:16 Georgia Hardstark? I, I just didn't know what to do.
2:18 Speaker 01 I had no idea what to do. Georgia leans over to me and goes, you have to talk, like that. And then grabs my hand and pulls me, because I was still looking at the thing like, wait, what?
2:27 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
2:28 Speaker 01 It was just genuinely surprising.
2:31 Georgia Hardstark? Surreal and surprising.
2:32 Speaker 01 Not sure what I said.
2:33 Georgia Hardstark? You did great. I just stood there in a daze. And I'm so embarrassed and horrified by it. And
2:39 Speaker 01 Me too.
2:39 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
2:40 Speaker 01 I mean, this is podcasting. This is being perceived in podcasting.
2:45 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
2:45 Speaker 01 For sure.
2:46 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
2:47 Speaker 01 But it was a very, very lovely experience. And we met so many murderinos all across Austin.
2:53 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
2:53 Speaker 01 It was really lovely to be kind of out and about and get to talk to listeners.
2:58 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, it really was. Like, I feel like it doesn't happen as much anymore in LA, because so LA, and everyone's kind of over, over it.
3:05 Speaker 01 Sure.
3:06 Georgia Hardstark? You know, like, over running into people they like, kind of know. But Austin, man, you guys are here for it, and we appreciate you. Callan stopped us and said like the most, like, the thing that makes me feel so good about like, the message I send and like, legacy about this podcast, she goes, because of you guys, you inspired me to get Botox and a nice husband. And I was like, well, fucking shit, I'm done.
3:29 Speaker 01 Your work is done here.
3:30 Georgia Hardstark? That's all I wanted.
3:31 Speaker 01 Yeah. And then we went to Chicken Ship Bingo at the Seaboy Bar, which is one of the coolest experiences and one of the best live bands I've genuinely ever seen.
3:40 Georgia Hardstark? That was a fucking random four o'clock, like, banger. That was like the most fun I've had in a long time. Chicken Ship Bingo. I keep saying it's exactly what it sounds like. And then people are like, I don't know what it sounds like.
3:52 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:52 Georgia Hardstark? But it's really just a bingo board and a chicken. And where, whatever number the chicken shits on, your raffle ticket.
4:00 Speaker 01 You win.
4:00 Georgia Hardstark? It matches, you win the Money.
4:02 Speaker 01 You win the pot of however much people paid for tickets that time. You gotta love it.
4:07 Georgia Hardstark? It's brilliant.
4:07 Speaker 01 And we met Kelly there.
4:09 Georgia Hardstark? Yes.
4:09 Speaker 01 And Kelly hung out with us a little bit and we got to talk to her. And at one point, this made me laugh the hardest. She was telling us like when she lived in New York and she used to listen in New York.
4:19 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, she was a listener.
4:20 Speaker 01 Her life. And then she goes, and then I kind of had to stop listening. Anyway, now I live here. And it was so hilarious because she wasn't saying it like.
4:28 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
4:28 Speaker 01 It wasn't, she was not lodging a complaint in any way. It was kind of like, I don't need to listen to that anymore. And we were like, good.
4:34 Georgia Hardstark? It helped me. I moved on.
4:36 Speaker 01 Yes.
4:36 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
4:36 Speaker 01 It's been a while.
4:37 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
4:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, you can do that.
4:39 Georgia Hardstark? It's been nine years.
4:40 Speaker 01 Yeah. You're invited to back in and back out anytime you want.
4:43 Georgia Hardstark? Absolutely.
4:44 Speaker 01 Yeah. So thanks you guys for coming up and saying hi and being nice to us. It's really a lovely experience.
4:51 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, so good.
4:52 Speaker 01 Did I ever get to tell you, and I'm sorry to take up extra time.
4:55 Georgia Hardstark? No.
4:56 Speaker 01 Did you know that I met Kyle McLaughlin the night of the awards at that after party?
5:00 Georgia Hardstark? No.
5:01 Speaker 01 Okay, I'll do this as fast as I can.
5:02 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my God.
5:03 Speaker 01 We get to the after party.
5:04 Georgia Hardstark? Yes.
5:05 Speaker 01 We kind of have to fight to get in, which was hilarious.
5:07 Georgia Hardstark? Yes.
5:07 Speaker 01 I did yell the words, but we won at the doorman, which is kind of embarrassing in retrospect.
5:13 Georgia Hardstark? Humiliating.
5:14 Speaker 01 But we got it.
5:14 Georgia Hardstark? Yes.
5:15 Speaker 01 And lovely, amazing party. But everybody in our group basically went and got in line for the bathroom. Because everyone had to go to the bathroom.
5:23 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
5:23 Speaker 01 Except for old KK, took care of it before. So I was standing there and I was like, I need to put my coat and my purse down. We had been at this location before, so I'm like, oh, I'm going to hide it behind that couch.
5:34 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
5:34 Speaker 01 So I went over to this couch and there was a woman sitting there with long blonde hair. And I shoved my stuff basically behind where she was sitting on the couch. And I looked her, I said, do not steal anything out of my purse. I'll know it was you. And she starts laughing and talking to me. I go, you can steal the coat because I bought it off TikTok and I shouldn't have even bought it in the first place. We start talking about stuff like that and not, and basically not over consuming.
5:58 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
5:59 Speaker 01 Come to find out, she's the producer of Kyle McLaughlin's podcast.
6:02 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my God.
6:03 Speaker 01 I introduced myself and then she was like, I know, and I saw, congratulations, whatever. And then she says that, I'm like, oh, my God, Georgia was so excited to meet him last year.
6:11 Georgia Hardstark? He let me take a selfie.
6:13 Speaker 01 Yes. And she goes, well, wait here, he's, he's going to be right back.
6:16 Georgia Hardstark? Holy shit.
6:16 Speaker 01 And she, he would, he would love to meet you guys. So I'm, I was like checking down that hallway to see who was coming out of the bathroom. And I'm like, I'm going to stand here until you guys come back so that we can hang out with Kyle McLaughlin. He walks up, immediately just starts, "Hey, hi, how are you? Did you win? Blah, blah, blah." Because he was there. And I got to talk to him and I got to tell Kyle McLaughlin that my friend who helped me, my brilliant friend, stylist O'Carra Banks, who is the best, helped me find my, like, dress for that night. And I told Kyle McLaughlin that I told her my style icon is Audrey Horn.
6:53 Georgia Hardstark? I see it.
6:54 Speaker 01 From Twin Peaks.
6:55 Georgia Hardstark? I totally, as soon as you started to say that, I was like, oh, yeah, I see it.
6:59 Speaker 01 I get to tell him that. And it was like, that man is the greatest.
7:03 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, he's such a lovely man. I'm honestly so glad he didn't find me because I had some drinks.
7:10 Speaker 01 Would you, would you have maybe snuggled up into his neck a little bit?
7:13 Georgia Hardstark? Yes, I would have definitely like, like, held him like a baby a little bit.
7:18 Speaker 01 Kind of A-plus weekend.
7:19 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
7:19 Speaker 01 That we got to have.
7:20 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
7:22 Speaker 01 Well.
7:22 Georgia Hardstark? All right.
7:23 Speaker 01 Back to work.
7:23 Georgia Hardstark? Should we do this?
7:24 Speaker 01 Let's do it.
7:24 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, back to work. Hey, we have a podcast network. It's called Exactly Right Media. And hey, here are some highlights.
7:30 Speaker 01 Okay, as you might have heard, but if you haven't, you need to know, last week, we sat down with Hannah Smith and Paysha Eaton, who are the hosts of our newest true crime podcast, The Knife. The Knife premieres next Thursday, March 27th, but you can follow them right now on Instagram and Blue Sky at The Knife Podcast. Of course, please go over to The Knife on Apple Podcasts or the iHeartRadio app, wherever you listen, and go follow them and get ready because on March 27th, you're going to hear a brand new, incredible podcast from the makers and old host of The Opportunist, one of my favorites.
8:07 Georgia Hardstark? It's gonna be huge. I'm so excited about this.
8:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:10 Georgia Hardstark? And then on Ghosted, Roz welcomes permanently stoned comedian Doug Benson, your old friend, to discuss all things paranormal. And hey, guess what? If you missed it last week, I, me, Georgia Hardstark, was the guest on the episode of Ghosted, so please, you know, go back and listen to that if you feel like it.
8:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, please do. This week on That's Messed Up, Lisa and Cara break down SVU Season 6, Episode 15, which was entitled Hooked, and they dig into the mysterious murder of Akira Banks. Dr. Bob Crane.
8:38 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, that's a good one.
8:40 Speaker 01 Also, we know you guys love treasure and we found some gems in the Exactly Right warehouse. We have got, here's the thing, koozies. We've got Murderino sweatshirts. We have sweatshirts that tell you not only to stay out of the forest, but also to keep going. We are bossy and we want you to get your merch while you can. Go to theexactlyrightstore.com.
9:00 Georgia Hardstark? And finally, we have some really exciting news. If you're a listener of this podcast, we're going to officially invite you to become a watcher of this podcast because My Favorite Murder is now officially on YouTube.
9:12 Speaker 01 But.
9:13 Georgia Hardstark? Yay.
9:14 Speaker 01 But.
9:16 Speaker 01 Yes, the Exactly Right Network has its own YouTube channel, so you can watch full episodes of My Favorite Murder. You can watch full episodes of I Said No Gifts, Ghosted with Roz Hernandez, all the Nick Terry MFM animated episodes. There's all kinds of stuff over there, so head on over.
9:31 Georgia Hardstark? And they're treasures. And once the knife premieres on March 27th, they'll be putting out video episodes too. So it'll be like a big watch party with all of your Exactly Right friends. We're so excited about this channel. We've been working on it for a while and here she comes.
9:43 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's the future of podcasting.
9:45 Georgia Hardstark? So go to youtube.com/exactlyright. Please, please, please like and subscribe. It really helps us out. We're just starting out and we need all the help we can get.
9:54 Speaker 01 Yeah, support us.
9:57 Georgia Hardstark? All right, so I am first and I have a heavy hitter that I personally didn't really know about that. Everyone should know about this case. It's fucking wild. It should be as notorious as Ted Bundy's horrific crime spree. And in fact, the story also takes place in Florida around the time that Ted Bundy was active. This is the story of a truly horrific serial killer slash spree killer. It's kind of debated on what to call him. He targeted models and young girls under the guise of scouting them for modeling work, which we've heard of before. He ultimately led the FBI on a nationwide manhunt that lasted nine days and whose victim count is still being debated today.
10:42 Georgia Hardstark? This is the story of the Beauty Queen Killer. You know what I'm talking about?
10:45 Speaker 01 I don't think so.
10:47 Georgia Hardstark? This is so wild. So I was watching this documentary. It's called The Beauty Queen Killer: Nine Days of Terror. And the documentary is basically An interview with a survivor, a couple survivors of this killer and the story of it. And it just unfolds and it's unbelievable.
11:04 Speaker 01 Wow, okay.
11:05 Georgia Hardstark? And the other main sources for the story are reporting from the Miami Herald and the Oklahoman. And the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes. So it's April 11th, 1984. And we're at the South Lake Mall in Maryville, Indiana. A 16 year old girl named Dawn is filling out an application in the store for a job. And she's approached by a girl, a teenage girl who's around her same age. This blond haired, blue eyed teen asked Dawn if she would like to model in an upcoming fashion show at the mall. And I think a big thing like to know and to understand, especially for our younger listeners, is how central the mall was to our lives back then.
11:43 Speaker 01 Yes.
11:43 Georgia Hardstark? Like there was no, like TV was live. If you didn't watch it or you weren't rich and had a fucking VCR, you didn't see it.
11:51 Speaker 01 Yes.
11:51 Georgia Hardstark? You went to the mall and that's where you socialize. That's where you got a job. That's where you shop. That's where you spent all of your free time with your friends.
11:58 Speaker 01 That's right. And also just 1984, it's such a weird thing, but in the San Francisco area, the brand Esprit would put out catalogs and use local girls as models.
12:09 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
12:10 Speaker 01 And that was like this big thing that everyone knew about. This was a very strange time in America where like you were as a young girl supposed to try to be a model, no matter how tall you were, what you looked like, what your background was.
12:24 Georgia Hardstark? And you could be scouted, you know? Like it actually could happen that you can be in local fashion shows, be like a model. These things did happen back then and kind of it was an opportunity for a lot of young women.
12:37 Speaker 01 An opportunity and kind of like the ultimate compliment as opposed to like one of many things you could be.
12:43 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
12:44 Speaker 01 Things weren't really, that wasn't the messaging. So it's like, it was like someone coming up and saying, I deem you a Disney princess.
12:51 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, you're the most beautiful. You must, yeah. It is a very. Time and place, kind of a thing. Yeah. So while Dawn is talking to this teenager who approached her, a man walks up to both the girls and it seems like he and this girl who approached Dawn seemed to know each other, they're friendly. The man introduces himself as a photographer who knows about the upcoming fashion show. It's like, so it sounds kind of legit. And there were a lot of fashion shows in malls at the time that were like sponsored by whatever big, you know, Macy's or whatever their store was there. Or sometimes like, you know, fashion lines and magazines would actually have mall fashion shows and local girls would walk in them. Right.
13:33 Georgia Hardstark? So he says that he'd like to shoot some photos of Dawn now if she's available. He says they just need to go to a nearby warehouse to get clothes for the shoot. And so Dawn is like, this is legit. This like other girls with him, making it seem real. This guy does seem legit. He does seem on the level. So the three of them head to the parking lot. They go to Dawn's car and Dawn and the photographer get in the car. And the other girl who had approached her gets in their old car and starts following them. But once they reach the car, the photographer pulls out a gun and points it at Dawn immediately. He makes her get in the car and give him the keys while the other girl who had approached her gets into a different car and follows them.
14:17 Georgia Hardstark? Dawn has just been abducted by a man who was wanted in multiple murders and abductions already across the country, who has come to be known by the media as the beauty queen killer.
14:30 Georgia Hardstark? So that was in April of 84. We're going to go back to February 26th of 1984. And we're in Miami. Miami is the center of this very busy modeling scene at the time with lots of girls with big hair and high cut bikinis. They're shooting local commercials, print ads, like it is happening for a lot of these women. And among the legions of very young and beautiful women who call Miami home, there is 20-year-old former Miss Florida contestant Rosario Gonzalez. Rosario had been born in Cuba and immigrated to the United States as a child with her family. And on February 26th, Rosario has a gig as a spokesmodel at the Miami Grand Prix.
15:14 Georgia Hardstark? Her job is to hand out samples of aspirin to people attending the race on behalf of a pharmaceutical company. And like, those are paid modeling gigs. These are the kind of gigs that these girls are trying to get, you know?
15:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
15:25 Georgia Hardstark? It is legit in some way.
15:26 Speaker 01 Right.
15:27 Georgia Hardstark? She's been picking up as many jobs as she can because she's engaged and she and her fiance are saving up for furniture for the house they're going to move into. But Rosario still lives at home at the time and her parents expect her back sometime around 5:00 PM. She always calls if she's going to be late. And so when the evening wears on and they don't hear from her, the Gonzalez family knows something is wrong. Shortly after they report her missing, Rosario's car is found near the racetrack, presumably where she parked it, having gone to the racetrack that day. On March 3rd, after Rosario has been missing for about a week, police release a composite sketch of a man that multiple witnesses say they saw walking with Rosario after the race. He's about five foot eight, he's white, in his 30s, he has a mustache.
16:13 Georgia Hardstark? And then about a week after Rosario goes missing, on March 5th, another aspiring model, a woman named Beth Kenyon, also disappears. So Beth is 23 years old, and by all accounts, she's this amazing young woman. She works at Coral Gables High School as a special ed teacher, and she coaches the cheerleading team. She's beloved by her family and friends and everyone. The Kenyon family is immediately worried when Beth doesn't show up as she's a reliable person, and they quickly become frustrated with the police when they don't seem particularly motivated to find Beth. Despite the fact that this is the second young model to disappear in Miami in a very short time span, but it doesn't seem like the two are linked in the minds of the police. And let's not forget that there's like a drug war going on in Miami at the time, and
16:58 Georgia Hardstark? the police are more concerned with that than a missing young, beautiful woman.
17:02 Speaker 01 Right.
17:03 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. And there's also not a lot of communication between jurisdictions. There's like fax machines and that and phone calls and that's it. So it's just kind of a shitty time and place. So the Kenyon family hire a private investigator named Ken Whitaker. Within a day or so of Beth disappearing, they had the means to do that and they immediately did. And here's the part that's going to make you angry and make us all want to rip our hair out. By day three, this private investigator has figured out who took Beth. He knows. He talks to her roommate and her coworkers. He finds out that Beth's car had been acting up and they all knew where she planned to take it to get serviced. So the private investigator goes to the service station.
17:45 Georgia Hardstark? The people there say that Beth had been there that day, the day she disappeared and that she had been with a man. And the private investigator, Ken, brings a photo album of Beth's to the service station, asks everyone to look through it. And everyone zeroes in on a guy in a photograph in her photo album. That was the guy she was with the day she disappeared. It's a picture of Beth at a racetrack and they point to the man standing next to her in the picture. And remember the racetrack thing?
18:10 Speaker 01 Yes.
18:12 Georgia Hardstark? So this man is 39 year old Christopher Wilder. And the private investigator is alarmed when he finds an extensive criminal record of violent sexual assaults dating back many years.
18:23 Speaker 01 I'm just already getting mad and assuming that they, I'm just going to like, demand you tell me the things you're about to tell me. But you're going to tell me anyway, so I'll just listen.
18:31 Georgia Hardstark? I mean, there isn't a, well, you'll see.
18:34 Georgia Hardstark? Let's talk a little bit about this awful man, Christopher Wilder. He's born on March 13th, 1945 in Sydney, Australia. He's the oldest child of an American naval officer and an Australian native. He grew up in Australia from his teenage years on. I it's, I kind of can't tell exactly what's going on, but he has, sometimes he has an Australian accent, sometimes he doesn't. It kind of seems like he can turn it on and off. I mean, this is just, it's classic. And as early adolescents, he begins peeking through windows. And then by the age of 17, he's arrested for the rape of a girl on a Sydney beach. He pleads guilty to the offense and receives a year of probation with counseling and electroshock therapy.
19:16 Georgia Hardstark? In 1969, now in his twenties, Christopher Wilder left Australia and heads to Florida after avoiding some charges for sexual deviant accusations. So he splits.
19:29 Speaker 01 He's just fleeing his record, essentially.
19:32 Georgia Hardstark? Exactly. So he gets to Florida and, you know, this is the late 60s, early 70s. He works as a contractor, also an amateur photographer and a race car driver as well. So he's not particularly handsome, but he dresses really well. Maybe that Australian accent comes into play sometimes and gives him an air of respectability that maybe he didn't deserve. But he looks like a typical 80s dude, like someone my mom would have dated back then, for sure.
20:00 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:01 Georgia Hardstark? And he hangs out with the right crowd that lends him legitimacy that actually tricks these women into trusting him as a modeling scout because he does have access to the modeling world.
20:12 Speaker 01 Because of his photography?
20:13 Georgia Hardstark? Yes, and he had been hired by the Miss Florida USA pageant to take photos of the models. So when he comes up to them after the photo shoot and is like, here's my card. I could really, like, I would love to take photos of you. I could make you famous. I could be your manager. There's no reason for them, but it's not some rando. It's this guy who has been hired to do this.
20:31 Speaker 01 By basically a, like, modeling machine of a beauty pageant.
20:38 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
20:38 Speaker 01 And they don't vet those photographers?
20:40 Georgia Hardstark? No.
20:40 Speaker 01 They don't, god.
20:42 Georgia Hardstark? So when I decided to do this, Alejandra and Ally, my researcher, let me know that some of these stories sound really similar to the one that I told in our book that happened to me, where I was like 18 or 19 and trusted a regular at the cafe I worked at and...
21:02 Georgia Hardstark? Got in his car and went with him to take, he said he was a photographer. He was a photographer. He showed me his work. It was gorgeous. He took me to a secluded location. And I realized that I needed to do what he told me at the time. And so, you know, I complied with what he demanded. And so I just want to make sure we're making it clear that this is so common and this is so, I don't know what to say, but just that I understand.
21:34 Speaker 01 Yes, and it's kind of a setup. It's a setup in a way where what you're being asked as a young woman is can you please meet these cultural requirements of beauty? And then people are going to come around you and be like, hey, I officially deemed that you did that. And therefore let's capture that and show it to other people. And since that is a drive that depending on, you know, how you were raised or what you were around, like that's a huge accomplishment, especially in Southern California where it's just like, yeah, you made it. Like this is, this is really something. Nobody's sitting there going, hold on, I need to figure out why I'm not going to do this.
22:12 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
22:12 Speaker 01 You're going, oh, my God, my dream's coming true. I get the ultimate like reward here.
22:17 Georgia Hardstark? And it's not, like my sister's a photographer and she took photos of me all through high school. It wasn't weird to me to be like, oh, I'll model for you. And then suddenly you find yourself in a situation that you realize you made a big mistake and you don't know how to get out of.
22:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:30 Georgia Hardstark? And I honestly think that this person who took me out to take photographs of me at the time had nefarious intentions. And somehow I was able to get away.
22:41 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:41 Georgia Hardstark? You know, not unscathed, but so I just, I get it. I get this in a weird way. And it like does trigger some old things of like the shame. But then when I read about these girls, I don't blame them in any fucking way whatsoever. So why should I feel shame about it as well? You know, it's like something you did when you were young and not.
23:01 Speaker 01 Well, also don't punish yourself for being trustful of people who tell you to trust them.
23:06 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
23:07 Speaker 01 That's that kind of thing of like, we all have to learn lessons like that as we grow up and everyone. Learns them the hard way and it's at best disappointing.
23:15 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
23:16 Speaker 01 And that kind of risk, that's just growing up a woman in our culture and all other women understand that. And I think there was a time where it was used against us or our own shame was kind of like weaponized. We would use it against each other.
23:31 Georgia Hardstark? Well, yeah, wait until the end of the story because it fucking comes into play and I just have the hardest time. I have the hardest time with the ending of the story because it's just so ugly.
23:41 Speaker 01 So he's gotten his papers from the Miss Florida Beauty Contest.
23:44 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
23:44 Speaker 01 Hey, you can trust this guy. Don't worry about this official photographer.
23:47 Georgia Hardstark? Exactly. And he's very suave. He's manipulative. He owns a Porsche and a speedboat and a nice house where he hosts fancy parties where everyone goes to them, you know, it's like that false sense of I know you, you're part of my pack and you're safe.
24:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
24:03 Georgia Hardstark? That's just luring and it's just grooming. It's
24:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
24:06 Georgia Hardstark? What predators do.
24:07 Speaker 01 Also, if you have money, I think there was for a long time, the belief of like, if you had money and a good job, that meant you would never do something like that.
24:15 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
24:15 Speaker 01 Which is insane.
24:16 Georgia Hardstark? Totally. Later, many women will come forward with stories of photo shoots that became non-consensual and led to sexual assault. And in fact, after one sexual assault charged by a teenage girl, a psychiatrist said that Wilder should be forced to undergo supervised treatment, but the Florida jury acquitted him in that case. It's maddening. There are multiple opportunities to punish this person and to, for this to have gone a different way.
24:40 Speaker 01 But God forbid that his career be affected.
24:43 Georgia Hardstark? Right. Yeah.
24:44 Speaker 01 Right. He's a man of fucking the community.
24:48 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. So back to this private investigator, when he tells Beth's family about this man, they already know him because it turns out Beth had met him when she competed in that Miss Florida USA pageant two years prior. And they had, I don't, it's hard to tell. They kind of started dating or maybe he was more interested than she was. So at the same time as this is going on, as Beth is missing, her family hears a news report about another missing model, Rosario Gonzalez from earlier, who also had competed in that same pageant as Beth two years earlier. And they're like, this is too coincidental. That two models from the area are missing. And the private investigator speaks to Christopher Wilder twice, once at his home and once at work.
25:31 Georgia Hardstark? And so the private investigator gives Christopher Wilder's name to the Miami police at some point. It's unclear exactly how long the police wait to go to Christopher's house to question him. But by the time they do, it seems a little like they dragged their feet on it. By the time they do, the story of the two missing models becomes linked in the media. And Christopher's name is eventually brought into the story. And so it seems like he realized the jig was up and fled. Knowing that they were after him.
26:01 Speaker 01 I also wonder, sorry, just to make this side comment, that if the first missing woman was Cuban.
26:08 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
26:08 Speaker 01 Then there's obviously.
26:10 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
26:10 Speaker 01 A racist issue.
26:11 Georgia Hardstark? Sure, Rosario Gonzalez, she's not.
26:13 Speaker 01 Right.
26:13 Georgia Hardstark? Looked for us and and it's the news isn't as.
26:16 Speaker 01 They're not going to be as reactive as white model.
26:19 Georgia Hardstark? Right, the media cares less, yeah.
26:20 Speaker 01 Right.
26:21 Georgia Hardstark? And so this alerting him to the fact that they're all on to him. His realization that he's going to get caught seems to set him off on an absolutely horrific spree. That I don't know how we haven't heard of this nine day spree. That's going to blow your fucking mind. And I tried to get ahold of my mom to talk about it because it comes all the way to LA.
26:42 Speaker 01 Oh, my God.
26:43 Georgia Hardstark? But I don't know if she knows anything about it anyways. So surprisingly, and like maybe showing how cocky he was that he wouldn't get caught. Wilder stays in Florida at first. He doesn't leave the state, even though he knows the authorities are after him. On March 15th, three days after Ken, the private investigator last makes contact with Christopher. He ends up in Daytona, Florida. And we know that a 15 year old girl named Colleen Osborne disappears at Daytona Beach that same day. Christopher has never been officially linked to Colleen's disappearance. But friends who were with her say a man at the beach offered her $100 to photograph her. And Colleen's body is found about three weeks later.
27:24 Georgia Hardstark? Three days later, on March 18th, Christopher abducts a 21-year-old woman named Teresa Ferguson, who goes by Terry, from a mall on Merritt Island, which is just south of Daytona. So he actually backtracks closer to Miami, like this guy has no fear. While Colleen's murder is only suspected to be linked to Christopher Wilder as well, investigators are sure that he's responsible for Teresa's murder. Her body is found five days later in a swamp not too far from Tampa, on the opposite coast from where she was abducted. And her body is found with a rope tied to her neck and feet. But before her body was found, Christopher Wilder abducts another young woman. This is on March 20th, two days after Teresa's abduction.
28:06 Georgia Hardstark? And it's in Tallahassee, the capital city and where Florida State University is. So this young woman is named Linda Grover. She's a 19-year-old student at Florida State. And we know everything that happens to her and what she goes through because Linda survives. Linda is in a department store shopping for an anniversary gift for her boyfriend when Wilder approaches her multiple times and is like bugging her and doing his normal spiel of like, "You should be a model. Let me take photographs of you. I have connections." He's wearing a suit, like a three-piece suit. He's well groomed. He has a gold watch and a diamond pinky ring, which is kind of his signature. He has his camera on him, you know, which is like so creepy that you're like, "Look, I'm a photographer."
28:49 Speaker 01 Walking around.
28:49 Georgia Hardstark? Anyone could put a fucking camera on. It's like DJ headphones. It's like, that doesn't mean you're a fucking DJ.
28:55 Speaker 01 Right. And, well, but it's just such an innocent time, like you keep saying. It's just like, that is, only a professional photographer would be walking around with such a nice camera.
29:05 Georgia Hardstark? Right. And this is also the time and place where like Adam Walsh, as a five-year-old, was kicked out of a mall for loitering and got kidnapped and disappeared. Like, that's just what happened then.
29:17 Speaker 01 People did not know what was, it was the beginning of this, of this era of awareness.
29:23 Georgia Hardstark? You'd still hope that Ted Bundy had at least, because I think in 79 is when his spree in Tallahassee, right, happened. So you'd think that they would be a little more on edge. And aware that these young college girls are going missing and are being found murdered.
29:40 Speaker 01 Yeah, but I mean, like, again, like you're saying, that means people would have to be
29:43 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
29:44 Speaker 01 Connected, communicating.
29:45 Georgia Hardstark? Right. So but Linda Grover is like, no, dude, she politely declines his offer a couple times and they part ways. She's not interested. Then at about 3:30 that afternoon, she's out walking to her car and she realizes that Christopher's following her out. It turns out he parked right next to her because he had watched her enter the mall from the parking lot. So he was orchestrating this from beginning. He asked her one more time to look at some covers that he shot, kind of to show that he's legitimate. He opens his trunk, takes out a briefcase. And then when he opens the briefcase, Linda sees an Australian passport. And then suddenly Christopher punches her multiple times and throws her in the backseat of the car.
30:28 Speaker 01 Oh, my God.
30:28 Georgia Hardstark? I know. He gags her, he covers her eyes, ties her up and puts her in the trunk. He then drives about four or five hours to a motel in Bainbridge, Georgia, which is close to the state line. Essentially, I'm not going to get too into the details, but if you watch the documentary, they tell you more. He tortures and sexually assaults her. And at one point, he even attempted to super glue her eyes shut, but she was able to keep her eyes open and it didn't work. And then this fucking badass breaks away from him, runs into the motel bathroom in the same room, locks herself in and starts banging on the walls and screaming to get the attention from the people who were in the motel room next door, which is just brilliant.
31:11 Speaker 01 Yes.
31:11 Georgia Hardstark? Like, you're panicked, you're being tortured, and you have the wherewithal to do such a thing. It's incredible.
31:17 Speaker 01 Yeah.
31:18 Georgia Hardstark? And this scares Christopher enough to flee. And so Linda is able to run to the front desk and the police are called and she's able to give the police a detailed description. And by this point, authorities realize they're looking for this one man because she's able to describe him, that pinky ring, the photographer, the mall, all of that stuff.
31:38 Speaker 01 The passport.
31:38 Georgia Hardstark? The passport, the Australian passport. She's able to give them enough information that now the FBI are called in.
31:44 Speaker 01 Thank God.
31:45 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, well, not yet.
31:47 Speaker 01 Okay. But amazing job, Linda.
31:49 Georgia Hardstark? Amazing job, Linda. She also identifies him from a photo, like. Wow. The FBI are finally called in and nationwide manhunt for Christopher Wilder is on. But unfortunately, they're just following in his footsteps. They are trying to track him down and he's one step ahead of them the whole way. Christopher drives along the Gulf Coast all the way to Beaumont, Texas. And on March 21st, just one day after abducting Linda, just one day later, he approaches a 23 year old mother and nursing student at Lamar University in Beaumont, Texas, named Terry Walden about modeling. She turns him down, but Christopher stalks her and abducts her two days later. Like, he fucking stalks
32:31 Georgia Hardstark? her from where he had tried to get her to come with him. And so that's on March 23rd. Terry's body is found three days later. She'd been raped and stabbed to death. And that same day, March 23rd, is when the FBI publicly announces that they have mounted a manhunt for Christopher. But over the next few days, this news appears mostly in Florida newspapers, not nationwide. So Chris steals Terry's car and drives to Oklahoma City, and there he abducts a 21 year old named Suzanne Logan on March 25th, just two days after Terry's abduction. This guy is on a berserker spree.
33:06 Speaker 01 Yeah. It's the long, slow build to now.
33:09 Georgia Hardstark? This is the end.
33:10 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:10 Georgia Hardstark? And he knows it. So Suzanne's husband and parents report her missing to the police, but the police tell them she's probably just decided to take off. Despite the fact that there's really no reason to think this, and the FBI is already engaged in an active manhunt for this man, and Suzanne has also disappeared from a shopping mall. So it's unclear if the police in Oklahoma City are unaware of all of this, which is totally likely for the time.
33:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:38 Georgia Hardstark? Or if they just failed to make the connection. But by this point, the story is in the newspapers all around the country. So who knows? Why?
33:47 Georgia Hardstark? So Wilder drives Suzanne almost 200 miles away to Newton, Kansas, keeps her alive overnight in a motel room and into part of the next day. They eat breakfast in a restaurant together and this is how like cunning he is that he's able to take these women into public places and still control them.
34:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:06 Georgia Hardstark? I mean, he must have been terrifying.
34:08 Speaker 01 Horrifying.
34:08 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
34:09 Speaker 01 Person.
34:09 Georgia Hardstark? Exactly.
34:10 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:10 Georgia Hardstark? Christopher then drives her 90 miles farther north into an area near Junction City, Kansas, and there he stabs her to death and her body is found about 10 days later. So then on March 29th, Christopher abducts an 18 year old named Cheryl Bonaventura from a mall near Grand Junction, Colorado. Over the next two days, the two are seen multiple times together. It looks like they're on this crazy drive and then Christopher checks into a motel in Page, Arizona. And Christopher kills Cheryl around March 31st and her body is found near the Arizona, Utah border in May. So then Christopher heads to Las Vegas. I mean, this guy's going across the fucking country.
34:49 Speaker 01 Yeah. Which also, if, I'm very curious now how those timelines overlap because that is what Ted Bundy did in the other direction. And I wonder if he knew that of just like, just keep crossing those
35:00 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
35:00 Speaker 01 state lines and they won't be able to track you as well.
35:03 Georgia Hardstark? He definitely, later they realize studied some serial killers for sure. So possibly and probably. And so he heads to Las Vegas and unbelievably, despite the manhunt being wildly reported, okay, fucking wait for this. He attends a modeling contest at a mall being held by 17 magazine as a photographer, as a model photographer. And that's on April 1st, it's a competition. And he targets a 17 year old named Michelle Korfman and ultimately kills her. And her body is found on May 11th at a highway rest area in Southern California. But she's not identified until about a month later, but there's a photo of him at the mall watching the models.
35:47 Georgia Hardstark? It's, it's him. He's not disguised, maybe he has a thicker beard or something, but like.
35:53 Speaker 01 I wonder if that.
35:54 Georgia Hardstark? The gall.
35:55 Speaker 01 It's the, but it's also that kind of thing of like, they think it's a manhunt where they're like, we need to check the motels on the highway type of thing. Who, what idiot would go to exactly
36:06 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
36:06 Speaker 01 the place where everyone would think he would be.
36:09 Georgia Hardstark? Absolutely.
36:11 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, so now, the next abduction leads the spree in a whole different direction. And this is a direction that will baffle the media and the public, who of course at the time had no issues with victim blaming and had it in their heads how a perfect victim would and should act. And when the victim doesn't, they go for her. So, on April 4th, three days after Michelle's abduction in Las Vegas, and almost a month before her body was discovered, a popular friendly teenager, 16-year-old Tina Rizico from Torrance, California, is at a local mall called the Del Amo Fashion Center. So Tina's filling out a job application at the Hickory Farm
36:56 Georgia Hardstark? Store, when Christopher approaches her with the same story he's given all the other girls. And Tina is beautiful, too, so it's not out of the question that she'd be approached near Los Angeles to model. He says he's a photographer and that he thinks she has potential to be a model and that he'd like to photograph her to show to his contacts at a modeling agency that she recognizes the name of the modeling agency as well. He doesn't have to fucking be with them. He can even make cards that say that he's from that modeling agency, you know?
37:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:24 Georgia Hardstark? And he's like, "We could do the shoot right now." So Tina, pretty blonde, who is mature for her age, she's 16, but kind of world-wary, after having had a chaotic childhood, she's flattered, but she feels a little uneasy. But she pushes down that uneasy feeling, and they walk out of the mall together and get in Christopher's car. And this is the person who is most centrally interviewed in the documentary, The Beauty Queen Killer.
37:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:54 Georgia Hardstark? And it's just, it's so moving. I highly recommend it because she's just this survivor that had to do what she had to do and is still coming to terms with it in a way that we can feel empathy for her, in a way that I don't think she could feel for herself, in some ways. And it's really heartbreaking. Tina says later, quote, "This is the one point that I regret every second of my life, every day. I got in the car with this perfect stranger when all..." All the bells and whistles were going off in my head. Why didn't I listen to my instincts? Why didn't I listen to the voice in my head? Don't get in a car with a stranger.
38:29 Speaker 01 Because we are taught as women to constantly question ourselves and doubt ourselves. And how dare you stand up for yourself? And that's ugly.
38:38 Georgia Hardstark? And don't be rude.
38:40 Speaker 01 Don't be rude and be pretty and feminine and quiet and do what men want you to do. That's what you're, that's what, how we're all raised to this fucking day, especially back then.
38:50 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. And then it says Tina notices that the car smells weird. And in our book, I wrote about getting in his car and suddenly going, oh, fuck. Because there was a rip in the ceiling of the car. It was messy and nasty. And I suddenly was like, oh, I don't know this person at all.
39:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
39:09 Georgia Hardstark? And immediately as we're driving away from the cafe, just all my alarm bells were going off. And I was like, you have to get through this. You fucked up.
39:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
39:19 Georgia Hardstark? You know?
39:20 Speaker 01 You didn't fuck up, though.
39:22 Georgia Hardstark? No, I didn't.
39:23 Speaker 01 You didn't.
39:23 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, you're right. Yeah, and that's, that's so important, I think, is that like, it was a time and place then, but it happened to me as well, not that long ago, 20, 20 years ago, I guess. So she is uneasy, but she still pushes through that feeling. He drives her up into the mountains, into a wooded area, like same Santa Monica fucking mountains is where he took me. He starts photographing Tina and posing her in different ways. And he has her turn his, her back to him to kind of pose. And when she turns back around, he's pointing a gun at her. In the moment Tina wonders if she should run or scream, but she doesn't think anyone would hear her. So she decides that her best shot is to go along with everything he makes her do.
40:07 Georgia Hardstark? He makes her take her clothes off and takes more photographs. He then rapes her and then has her get back in his car. And when they get back in the car, Christopher tapes her eyes shut and puts sunglasses over the tape.
40:21 Georgia Hardstark? He starts driving Tina across the country, stopping at motels along the way. At each motel, Christopher, he basically takes the cord from the lamp and peels it apart and uses it to give her electric shocks.
40:34 Speaker 01 Oh, my god.
40:35 Georgia Hardstark? So he tortures her and rapes her at various motels. He threatens her with a knife, he has a gun, as I said, as well. And he has her sleep handcuffed. And they actually go into restaurants. And she says the entire time she's sitting next to him, he has a gun under his coat pointing at her. And he is like, I will shoot you if you try to do anything. The entire time they're in the car driving, he has his hand on the gun, pointed at her. Like, there's no escape.
41:03 Speaker 01 No.
41:03 Georgia Hardstark? And we all, that's like, part of it is like, why didn't you jump and roll? And why didn't you start screaming? And it's like, who knows how much this guy told her about what he's already done? Probably at least enough to scare her to know that he will do anything. And he's capable of anything. You know what I mean?
41:19 Speaker 01 Also, the coercion part of this is the, is what everyone should be talking about.
41:24 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
41:24 Speaker 01 Not why, why didn't you do this and that? Why are men allowed, over and over again, to do things like this and get probation, to get off, to get acquitted, to all these things? The questions are the wrong fucking questions.
41:40 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
41:40 Speaker 01 They're the easiest questions to ask. And it's questions that have answers that no one's listening to when the answers come.
41:46 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
41:47 Speaker 01 And they're the wrong questions.
41:48 Georgia Hardstark? Absolutely. So Tina says that throughout this ordeal, when they're together, she maintains an affectless demeanor. She doesn't react, she doesn't show any emotion. Even when he's hurting her, she complies. So by April 10th, Christopher and Tina are in Maryville, Indiana, near Gary, Indiana. And this is where the story started, when the teenager approached the pretty girl at the mall.
42:14 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
42:15 Georgia Hardstark? Remember?
42:15 Speaker 01 Yep.
42:16 Georgia Hardstark? And at this point, Christopher has had Tina at gunpoint and torturing and raping her for a week. So she's under his command. And this is a 16-year-old girl. At the mall in Maryville, Christopher and Tina go in together. He points out Dawn and tells Tina what to say. Tina says that she tries to think of some way to warn Dawn, but she is so scared and broken down at this point that she can't even figure out a way to do that without getting killed. She thinks the moment she starts screaming or says anything, he's going to shoot her.
42:45 Speaker 01 Of course.
42:45 Georgia Hardstark? And he probably would.
42:46 Speaker 01 Yes.
42:46 Georgia Hardstark? When you hear the rest of the story.
42:47 Speaker 01 Okay.
42:48 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, so Dawn agrees to go with them. Dawn gets into her car with Chris driving it. And Tina, the girl that had been abducted, gets into the other car and even then she doesn't try to escape.
43:01 Speaker 01 Right.
43:01 Georgia Hardstark? She knows that he's a race car driver. Remember that?
43:05 Speaker 01 Yep.
43:06 Georgia Hardstark? And she thinks that if she tries to get away from him, he will be able to stop her, run her off the road. He'll shoot her. She doesn't think she can get away. I mean, she is.
43:14 Speaker 01 She's a child.
43:15 Georgia Hardstark? She's brainwashed at this point.
43:16 Speaker 01 She's a brainwashed, tortured child.
43:18 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
43:18 Speaker 01 And victim entirely.
43:20 Georgia Hardstark? It's awful and it's terrible. And I feel so much for Dawn, the other victim. And she's interviewed in this documentary as well. To this day, she's still understandably like can't wrap her head around it. And it seems like can't forgive. And I totally understand that, but it's just, it's bigger than anything that we can wrap our heads around ever because we've never been through it. We probably never will, fucking knock on wood. So we can't judge, you know?
43:47 Speaker 01 I mean, well, and also the idea that that somehow the point is supposed to be forgiveness among the victims.
43:54 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, yeah. You don't have to.
43:55 Speaker 01 Everyone is on their own trajectory.
43:57 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
43:57 Speaker 01 They have to get to the place they need to be, however they want to. And again, let's focus on animals that need to be in cages.
44:08 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
44:08 Speaker 01 And walk around the planet while everyone else makes excuses.
44:11 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. So eventually the three of them, they ditch one of the cars and they end up at a motel that evening. And both of the girls are raped and tortured with the electric shocks. It's monstrous. The next day, Christopher turns on the TV in the motel and he sees himself on the news and the two kidnapped teenagers see as well that people are looking for them. And it seems like this freaks him out. And this is a turning point in his spree. Like, he has no control at this point. He fucking knows.
44:41 Speaker 01 It's kind of over, yeah.
44:43 Georgia Hardstark? So he gets everyone to the car and he drives the teenage victims to Western New York into a remote area. It's just all over the country. There's like no rhyme or reason to it, which is probably why it was so hard to fucking track him.
44:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:54 Georgia Hardstark? Because meanwhile, the cops in Torrance in Southern California, everyone thinks he's still in Southern California. They're looking for him there. Those FBI bulletins, he's on the FBI most wanted list at this point. Those are all happening in Southern California. Meanwhile, he's in like upstate New York.
45:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
45:09 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, and this is just horrific. So he drives him to a remote area in Western New York. He leaves Tina from Torrance, the 16-year-old, in the car. He takes the keys and he takes Dawn into the woods off the road. So Tina's alone in the car. This is the point where people are like, why didn't you take off? Why didn't you run? Why didn't you? Yeah, exactly.
45:30 Speaker 01 Just stop asking fucking questions like that where it's like, unless you have been tortured for two weeks straight as a 16-year-old, you, why are you pretending this is a normal situation?
45:41 Georgia Hardstark? And it's a remote area. Where would she fucking run to? She was like, there's no coverage. There's nowhere I can go. So he takes Dawn off into the woods and he tries to kill her by sethacating her, but Dawn fights back. And so he stabs her twice in the chest and then flees back to the car. And he and Tina drive away. Tina later says in this documentary that she is sure that he had just killed Dawn and that his demeanor had changed. He was clearly like freaking out. And she's like, I'm next.
46:12 Speaker 01 Yeah.
46:12 Georgia Hardstark? This is about to end. He's going to kill me. Just like he had just killed Dawn. Dawn is alive. Dawn survives the stabbing. She's laying there, having been stabbed twice. She thinks about her family and tells herself she just needs to at least try to get to safety for them. She ties her jeans around the stab wounds on her chest and somehow is able to make it to a road and flags down a passing truck driver. The driver takes Dawn to the hospital. She's seriously injured. She'd been stabbed in the lungs. He had tried to stab her in the heart, but stabbed her in the lungs. And she was still able to like, get herself up and go get fucking help for herself.
46:52 Speaker 01 Oh my god.
46:52 Georgia Hardstark? Which is crazy because Christopher tries to come back around. He was worried she wasn't dead. He comes back to try to kill her 20 minutes later.
47:01 Speaker 01 Oh.
47:01 Georgia Hardstark? So if she hadn't gotten herself up and moving, he would have come back and killed her.
47:06 Speaker 01 Jesus Christ.
47:07 Georgia Hardstark? I know, I know. So Dawn is able to give the FBI a lot of critical information. They know all these cases are linked. They know that's the same man that they've been looking for. But as I said, they've been still focusing their search around Southern California. And so now they know he had crossed the country. She tells them that Tina from Torrance is still alive and that he's using her to get other victims. And she tells them that he said he's heading for Canada. So now they kind of have a like, an area of where he might be. So Christopher hears on the radio that Dawn has survived and the FBI are closing in on him. And this ultimately precipitates his next and final murder. It's just so heartbreaking.
47:52 Georgia Hardstark? So it's April 12th. Christopher abducts a 33 year old woman named Beth Dodge in the parking lot of a mall. We're still in Western New York. At this point, he's like frantic and has given up the modeling pretense. He simply needs a car, a new car, because he knows they're looking for him. Beth had a gold Pontiac Firebird, which is crazy that he picked such a like distinctive car, dude. Like pick a fucking Corolla.
48:17 Speaker 01 He's out of his mind.
48:18 Georgia Hardstark? Right. He approaches Beth. He pulls out his gun and makes her get into the car and drives it away with Tina following. And it's like, why couldn't he have just left her there and taken the car? This guy is a monster, that's why.
48:31 Speaker 01 Yeah.
48:31 Georgia Hardstark? He takes Beth to a remote area, again with Tina following in the car. And as she's watching, Tina's watching from the other car. He has Beth get out of the car and shoots Beth in the back, killing her. And Beth leaves behind her husband and a four year old daughter, who as an adult is interviewed in this documentary as well.
48:53 Georgia Hardstark? All right, what next? This is just inexplicable. Christopher then drives Tina, who had kidnapped from Torrance and raped and tortured across the country. He drives her to Logan International Airport in Boston. He walks her up to the ticket counter, buys her a ticket to Los Angeles, gives her like a thousand dollars in cash, and then leaves her at the airport. Yeah.
49:17 Speaker 01 So the idea in his mind is, now you can go home and I'll pay for it. And then just what?
49:23 Georgia Hardstark? And here's some extra cash for the... I don't even think he said anything like that. He was just like, here's some extra cash for the ride and...
49:30 Speaker 01 Did he think she would continue to be kind of under his spell, the way she'd been?
49:34 Georgia Hardstark? I feel like her compliance for survival must have told him something else about her. You know, like that, yeah, she would have been complicit, I guess. You have to imagine where her brain is because she's like, this is a trick. This isn't gonna happen. She's sure he's about to come back. She gets on the plane. She takes the overnight flight, sleeps on the plane. There's multiple stops. She doesn't say anything to anyone. She gets off the plane in LA in the morning and gets into a cab. And she also was saying at the time, like, I didn't think they were really looking for me. I wasn't totally sure. Her mom was unstable. She was like, she might not have even like said I was missing.
50:17 Speaker 01 And she's been in a living hell. So all of normal life is gone for her. And she's just adapting to this weird, hellish world.
50:26 Georgia Hardstark? The morning before, she saw him shoot an innocent woman.
50:29 Speaker 01 In the back.
50:29 Georgia Hardstark? Point blank in the back. Like, the disassociation going on there is fucking real and it's a powerful tool and it was working for her and she kept going with it.
50:38 Speaker 01 And also she just like, get home. Just get on the plane, get home, stay within yourself.
50:43 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, yeah. And the next thing that she does is totally scrutinized by the media and I'll never be able to explain it because I'll never be in a situation exactly like this. She is in the cab in LA and she's like, I haven't changed my clothes in over a week. So she asks the cab driver to take her to a lingerie store so she can buy new underwear and change. We have to assume that this girl is going on fumes. She's not thinking this through.
51:11 Speaker 01 Or if you had been through something that horrible and raped repeatedly, you would want those underwear off of you. And you're not going to a lingerie store.
51:21 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
51:22 Speaker 01 You are not making that choice. You're saying, new underwear are there and I need to go get them.
51:27 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
51:27 Speaker 01 The end.
51:28 Georgia Hardstark? So she got-
51:29 Speaker 01 Like, the framework of that is disgusting.
51:31 Georgia Hardstark? It's so creepy too, because she goes there and it seems like she tells the store clerks who she is and because everyone was looking for her at that point. Like, she was a missing person. It was like all over the news. They recognized her. And there's like footage from that time in the documentary where they're like, yeah, she was here and then she took off. And I think it's an important thing to point out and for us to know about Tina is that she did not have a very stable home life. In fact, as I said, it was chaotic. She had experienced childhood sexual abuse. Her mother had been a drug user. She had seen her mother overdose. Her mother hung out with bad motorcycle crowd all through her childhood.
52:14 Georgia Hardstark? And so she will later say that she basically learned how to survive horrific things as a child. And she thinks this is what ultimately kept her alive. Because Chris's MO is that he likes scaring women and having them beg for their lives. And when Tina didn't do that, because she already knew kind of how to disassociate and comply, he must have seen her differently than other victims somehow.
52:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
52:37 Georgia Hardstark? So her trauma-
52:40 Speaker 01 Saved her.
52:41 Georgia Hardstark? Saved her in a really twisted way and informed how to react to these situations, which is so sad.
52:47 Speaker 01 But also, it's as sad as it is hopeful, I think.
52:52 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
52:53 Speaker 01 Because the things that happen to you, no one wants bad things to happen. But there are skills and coping mechanisms that come from those bad things that absolutely benefit your life later on.
53:05 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, they really do.
53:07 Speaker 01 Yeah.
53:08 Georgia Hardstark? So after the lingerie store, Tina then goes to her boyfriend's house and which is really telling that she doesn't go to her home because her boyfriend's family were kind of more of a steady presence in her life than her own family were at the time. They know who she's kidnapped by. They think she's dead. She gets out of the cab and they're all like, what? They're shocked. And of course, elated to see her and she takes a shower and then they convince her to go to the police. I think she's just like going forward in her mind and they're like, okay, here we go. So in the weeks following Tina's return and when her story and Dawn's survival story becomes known, Tina will sometimes be referred to as an accomplice and the media really wants to pin this on her and, and make it
53:49 Georgia Hardstark? seem like she was complicit in the whole thing and she was a willing accomplice, a 16-year-old girl. The patriarchy was super strong back then. They were doing it. And once again, just that idea of like, of that whole story. Yeah. That's who you're fucking talking about? Totally. The lead character in the story. Is not her. Yeah. It's him. Yeah. And that's what happens every time. Yeah. And through this whole ordeal, what the media and the public put her through is so ugly. Hopefully it wouldn't happen today. Her full name is made public. There's all sorts of speculation over her behavior before and after the kidnapping. It's all scrutinized on the news. Reporters are hounding her and her family. But the 16-year-old girl
54:33 Georgia Hardstark? who has been held captive and abused repeatedly for 10 days, thankfully, the Torrance Police, and this is unexpected and kudos for them, they make a hard stance that Tina is a victim and nothing more. And they have press conferences saying she is a victim. That is, you know, she has nothing. Thank God. They were really on her side. And I honestly am like, was amazed by that. And I shouldn't be moved that they're on her side, but I was. I mean, it wasn't common at all. It certainly isn't expected from a police force. Totally. Like, that's pretty mind blowing. Yeah. Back to the same day Tina had come home on April 13th. After Christopher dropped her off at the airport, he makes his way all the way up to a town called
55:16 Georgia Hardstark? Colebrook, New Hampshire, a small town. It's about a 15 minute drive from the Canadian border where he's headed. He stops at a gas station to ask directions to the border. And just so happens that two state troopers are driving by the gas station at the moment, and he has a fucking gold Thunderbird, remember? And everyone's looking for him at this point.
55:35 Speaker 01 Yeah.
55:35 Georgia Hardstark? Of course. The troopers see him, they see the car, and they get out and confront him. There's a brief struggle. And Christopher lunges into the car for his gun. And there he uses it to shoot himself. The bullet also injures one of the troopers. And Chris is able to shoot himself one more time. And he dies by suicide.
55:58 Georgia Hardstark? The trooper ultimately recovers. And in the weeks and years following Christopher Wilder's death, he is linked as a suspect to multiple other disappearances. And many other women come forward saying he sexually assaulted them. And I, of course, went to our Gmail, my favorite murder Gmail, and looked up his name and everything. And there are just pages of murderinos telling their own story about having met him or been approached by him. Murderinos telling their mom's story, their grandma's story, like multiple emails.
56:26 Speaker 01 Whoa.
56:27 Georgia Hardstark? I couldn't even pick one because they were all the same. It's kind of a thing.
56:30 Speaker 01 And I have never.
56:31 Georgia Hardstark? I know.
56:32 Speaker 01 I think when you started talking about Tina's story and the part that was happening in Southern California.
56:38 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
56:38 Speaker 01 I was remembering, like, maybe a forensic file.
56:42 Georgia Hardstark? Yes.
56:42 Speaker 01 But it told it in this kind of opposite way.
56:45 Georgia Hardstark? Totally. It's like a vague, like, I know some of the circumstances, but the spree, like, I don't remember hearing that at all.
56:52 Speaker 01 No.
56:53 Georgia Hardstark? Okay, here, this is a part that, of course, that I'm fascinated by because it's about a cold case. It comes out that right before this spree happened, Wilder had gone back to Australia to visit his parents. And while there, he had abducted two teenage girls from a beach by telling them he was a modeling scout. And then he had sexually assaulted them and forced them to take photos with their clothes off. They went to the police. He was arrested, but he was bailed out by his parents. And it was like a $350,000 bail. So clearly, they were putting the money up for him. And he was allowed to return to Florida to wait for his trial, which was repeatedly postponed. Now, if that case sounds familiar, it's because it's eerily similar to the infamous Australian Wanda Beach murders,
57:37 Georgia Hardstark? which I just mentioned recently, in which two 15-year-old Sydney girls were killed in 1965. And there are reports that they were last seen with a teenage boy, which would have lined up with Christopher's age and his time in Sydney. And it's never been solved. And it's one of the most notorious cases in Australia. It's the first episode of the podcast Case File.
57:59 Speaker 01 Wow, oh my god.
58:01 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah. The remains of Rosario Gonzalez and Beth Kenyon, the first two women to be reported missing in South Florida, have never been found. And that is the story of the beauty queen killer, the women whose lives he cut short, and the women who survived him.
58:18 Speaker 01 Unbelievable.
58:21 Georgia Hardstark? I mean, it blew my mind researching the story.
58:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
58:26 Georgia Hardstark? I was just...
58:27 Speaker 01 I can't believe it.
58:28 Georgia Hardstark? I know.
58:28 Speaker 01 Wow, great job.
58:29 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you.
58:30 Speaker 01 Amazing.
58:30 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you.
58:31 Speaker 01 And amazing honesty. I know that was probably very hard and very triggering as you read this.
58:37 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, thank you.
58:38 Speaker 01 I mean, it's important for other people to hear that, you know? And like, know that everyone, especially when you're a teenager, makes the kinds of mistakes that you thoroughly regret in all kinds of ways. And if you've already gone through pain about the mistake itself, torturing yourself about making a mistake is what my therapist likes to call the second arrow. And it is, that's the kind of thing you have to watch out for because you already suffered, you already suffer.
59:08 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
59:08 Speaker 01 You don't need to suffer more because you're a human being. It's not fair.
59:12 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, thank you. I tried looking up this photographer, like, while I was doing it. Because somewhere out there, there's unconsenting topless photos of me. And he's out there somewhere, and I couldn't find anything. It's just, it's chilling. Get me ripping all my nail polish off.
59:28 Speaker 01 I know.
59:28 Georgia Hardstark? That's what I do when I'm stressed out.
59:30 Speaker 01 I've literally twisted this paperclip into this.
59:33 Georgia Hardstark? I'm peeling gel nail polish off. Like, that is, that's not...
59:37 Speaker 01 This was...
59:38 Georgia Hardstark? Intense.
59:39 Speaker 01 Unbelievable, but also really good job, Jordan.
59:42 Georgia Hardstark? Thank you.
59:45 Georgia Hardstark? The holidays are coming, which means we'll all be spending more time away from home.
59:49 Speaker 01 Whether you're visiting family or doing something actually fun, you want to know your home is protected while you're away.
59:54 Georgia Hardstark? That's why now is a good time to think about home security with SimpliSafe.
59:58 Speaker 01 Unlike traditional security systems that alert you after a break-in starts, SimpliSafe is designed to help stop intruders before they get inside. These days, you're worried about your house, you're out of town, and then something comes up and you get to look on your phone, and SimpliSafe is going to show you not only the video of like, it's a raccoon at your front door, but also that they have staff that's sitting there, they already know, and if it was something different or worse, they would have already been on it.
1:00:23 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, I really think that's invaluable peace of mind that just like relying on your neighbors, paying attention is not going to give you. We've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer our listeners their biggest savings of the year, 70% off your new system with professional monitoring when you visit simplisafe.com/mfm.
1:00:41 Speaker 01 That's simplisafe.com/mfm, and when you order, write in MFM at checkout, and it tells them we sent you, and it really helps the show.
1:00:48 Georgia Hardstark? SimpliSafe, ahead of crime in real time.
1:00:51 Speaker 01 Goodbye. All right, well, it's gonna be tough to follow that.
1:00:57 Georgia Hardstark? Sorry.
1:00:58 Speaker 01 No, I mean, it's huge, but the theme of this episode is moniker killers. And I think when we learned we were gonna do this theme, we were like, oh, how are there any that we don't know? And we both learned that there are. And this one, Maron found, and again, it happened in Northern California, so I'm like, what kind of job am I doing as a supposed true crime enthusiast, if I don't know this story? So, it begins in the mid 80s in Redding, California, a town in central Northern California, about 150 miles northeast of San Francisco and 120 miles south of the Oregon border. Have you been to Redding?
1:01:41 Georgia Hardstark? No.
1:01:42 Speaker 01 Reading is like far away Sacramento.
1:01:45 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
1:01:45 Speaker 01 It's like if you're in Sacramento, you drive three, maybe four hours up the five-ish.
1:01:51 Georgia Hardstark? It's rural.
1:01:52 Speaker 01 It's way up there and out there.
1:01:53 Georgia Hardstark? Wow, okay.
1:01:54 Speaker 01 So, but a lovely little kind of community.
1:01:57 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, probably you hate it if you're a teenager, but then you love it later.
1:02:01 Speaker 01 You would move back later, yeah. So it's May of 1985 and a 48-year-old woman named Avril Whedon.
1:02:08 Georgia Hardstark? My husband's last name.
1:02:09 Speaker 01 It's your husband's last name.
1:02:10 Georgia Hardstark? That's weird.
1:02:11 Speaker 01 Avril's reported missing by her mother, Yula. Yula desperately tries to track her daughter down, but weeks pass. No one hears from Avril. This is completely out of character for her and of course, very concerning for her family and her friends. Then three months later, on August 8th, a woman named Shirley Landreth is fielding calls for Shasta County's secret witness program, which is a local tip line where people can call in anonymously and report information they might have on active investigations. Kind of like the local Reading version of Crime Stoppers.
1:02:45 Georgia Hardstark? That's cool.
1:02:46 Speaker 01 Yeah. So Shirley Landreth is a single mom in her 50s who has run this answering service for this tip line for 12 years. It's a job that means a lot to her. Shirley suffered the tragic loss of her child in a house fire. So she began to channel her grief into doing what she could to better her community.
1:03:06 Georgia Hardstark? Amazing.
1:03:07 Speaker 01 So beautiful. So for 12 years, Shirley's been answering calls to the Shasta County's secret witness tip line. But on this August day, when the phone rings and she picks it up, something is off. The caller tells Shirley that he knows where Avril Whedon is. But before he's willing to share those details, he wants to know more about the secret witness's reward for that information. But for Shirley, there's something very unsettling about this exchange because she's certain she's heard this man's voice before, when he has called in with a different tip also about Avril's case.
1:03:44 Speaker 01 And so what begins as a missing persons investigation is about to unravel into something much darker. And this tip line will be at the very center of it all. This is the heroic story of tip line operator Shirley Landreth and the hunt for a Northern California serial killer.
1:03:59 Georgia Hardstark? Fuck.
1:04:01 Speaker 01 The main source used today is a legal filing from the Supreme Court of California, and the rest of the sources are in our show notes. As I said, the theme of the show is moniker killers, but I'm holding it because of the story.
1:04:15 Georgia Hardstark? Got it.
1:04:17 Speaker 01 So it's August 8th, 1985, my sister's 17th birthday.
1:04:21 Georgia Hardstark? Holy shit.
1:04:22 Speaker 01 And Shirley Landreth is on the phone with a man she believes has called into the secret witness tip line before. Phone records will later reveal that this man, who we'll refer to now as the tipster, did reach out to the tip line two months prior on June 19th, my mother's birthday.
1:04:40 Georgia Hardstark? What?
1:04:42 Speaker 01 How fucking weird is that?
1:04:43 Georgia Hardstark? That's so creepy.
1:04:44 Speaker 01 And in the beginning, they were like, and this all begins in May? So I was like, it's May 11th, but it wasn't. So it isn't just the caller's voice or the rushed way he speaks that's familiar to Shirley, because in that first call, he also asked about the amount of money he would be receiving for information on Avril's case. Only when that dollar amount was confirmed, which was $250, did he give what he claimed were directions to Avril's body. Shirley passed that information along to the police, but it didn't result in anything. They didn't find anything when they followed those directions. So the tipster did not get a reward. So now on the second call, he is not holding back. The tipster
1:05:28 Speaker 01 wants to make one thing clear to Shirley upfront. He knows for a fact that Avril's dead, but he says he is not responsible. He then gives Shirley exact directions to the location of Avril's body, and Shirley makes a particular note that the man gives these directions in meters, not feet.
1:05:44 Georgia Hardstark? Interesting.
1:05:46 Speaker 01 So then before he signs off, the tipster tells Shirley that he's willing to give more information about Avril's case, as well as six other unsolved murder cases in Shasta County.
1:05:56 Georgia Hardstark? What?
1:05:57 Speaker 01 As long as the tip line comes through with his reward money quickly. Then he hangs up. Shirley is unsettled by this call. She immediately reports the tip to police. But this time, when investigators follow the tipster's directions, they do lead directly to Avril Whedon's body, exactly where the tipster said she would be. An autopsy will later reveal that Avril had been beaten and strangled to death. And because this information did lead officers to finding her body, Shirley arranges for a prompt and discreet drop off of the tipster's $250.
1:06:37 Georgia Hardstark? Can we do a little investigation first, please?
1:06:39 Speaker 01 I mean, this is how it worked, where it's like, you're not going to get anonymous tips on active cases if you start, you know, turning it back on people.
1:06:48 Georgia Hardstark? Sure, but, okay.
1:06:51 Speaker 01 So, police have been investigating Avril's missing case for months. And her mother, Yula, reported that since she had gone missing on May 23rd, Yula had called Avril's house several times, hoping to find her daughter there. But every time, the only person that was home was a 27-year-old man named Robert Maury, who goes by Bob. And Maury was Avril's tenant, who had been renting one of her spare rooms. He had recently been dishonorably discharged from the Army for smoking pot. And now, he worked sometimes as a landscaper and sometimes as a flower arranger. He also became increasingly annoyed at Yula every time she called, completely bizarre and inappropriate.
1:07:36 Speaker 01 At one point, telling her, quote, "How the hell am I supposed to know where Avril is?" So, when Yula reported her daughter missing to the police, a detective named Dave Mundy was put on the case. So, Mundy began interviewing everyone close to Avril, including a male friend that last saw her on the back of Bob's motorcycle. So Bob seems to corroborate this. He can't remember the exact date of this motorcycle ride, but he tells detectives that he dropped Avril off at a local telephone booth while he drove to a different location to buy weed. Bob claims he didn't want Avril to come to a drug deal with him, but he says that after he made that deal, he went back to the phone booth, picked her up, and they went home. And that's the last time he saw her. So now it's August 12th,
1:08:20 Speaker 01 just days after police recovered Avril's body. At the secret witness tip line, the phone rings again. When Shirley answers, she hears the same voice. It's the tipster. He tells Shirley that he's ready to share more information on Avril's case in exchange for more reward money. When Shirley tells the tipster that he could speak directly with Detective Dave Monday, he refuses. Instead, he announces that he'll call Shirley back and answer the detective's questions through her. Playing detective is far beyond the scope of Shirley's job, but she agrees to this arrangement. She just wants to keep him talking.
1:08:56 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:08:57 Speaker 01 So the two settle on a reward amount for the tipster's participation, and the call ends. Shirley immediately calls Detective Monday and tells him what is happening. Three days later, on August 15th, the tipster calls back into the tip line as promised, and Shirley asks him questions on behalf of Detective Monday. And in response to these questions, the tipster basically tells Shirley that Avril had been murdered over a drug-related dispute. He claims she was killed with a nylon clothesline before being dragged into the woods, where her killer then hit her with a rock to make sure she was dead.
1:09:35 Speaker 01 Before ending the call, the tipster gives Shirley specific directions, once again using meters where police can find the rock that was used to strike Avril.
1:09:43 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my God.
1:09:44 Speaker 01 He also shares that he has even more information, but he's only going to call back after he receives the reward money for this newest tip. Shirley sends this new tip over to the police and once again arranges for the tipster to pick up his reward at a designated drop-off point. So meanwhile Detective Monday is zeroing in on Bob Maury. He's the prime suspect in this homicide, but Monday doesn't have much physical evidence to go on. Bob is admittedly the last person to see Avril alive, and he's also acting very, very strangely. And then three months later, in November of 1985, this is six months after Avril first went missing, Maury calls the Reading Police Department and hints that he knows more than
1:10:28 Speaker 01 he's letting on, but he's not willing to share his information unless he gets something in exchange. Specifically, Bob tells an officer that he wants legal protections, not just in this murder case, but in an unrelated investigation involving stolen property. So without promising anything, the officer tells Maury that he'll see what he can do. And then, of course, the next day Detective Monday follows up on that. He calls Bob back and Bob tells the detective that a friend of Avril's, coincidentally the same man who had last seen Avril on Bob's motorcycle, is the one who strangled her to death with the rope. Oh, God. Bob claims that he actually witnessed this friend carrying out the attack and that
1:11:10 Speaker 01 he'd been forced to help dispose of Avril's body at gunpoint. So a month later, and so that all makes sense of like the anonymous tipster aspect of it is because the people who know real details and real crimes can be associated. Right. So a month later, on December 10th, Bob and Detective Monday have another conversation. This time Bob tweaks a few key details. He now adds that Avril's friend had forced him to hit Avril with the rock, suggesting Bob himself dealt the fatal blow in her murder, but under duress. But as Bob speaks with Monday, the detective notices something odd. Bob always relays the distances in meters, not feet.
1:11:55 Speaker 01 So they're basically putting together that this is the same person, the tipster and Bob Mundy. So now it's the fall of 1986. More than a year has passed since Avril's body was first discovered. The detectives are no closer to bringing charges against anyone in connection with this murder. There is no evidence against Bob Mori. Everything is not coincidental. Circumstantial. Thank you, circumstantial. But they are chasing leads they've gotten from statements the people in Avril's life have given, like her parents, neighbors, and Bob Mori himself. And while police are convinced Bob is withholding information and might even be involved, they simply don't have the evidence needed to secure a conviction.
1:12:37 Speaker 01 Then on September 11th, 1986, the phone at the secret witness tip line begins to ring. Shirley answers once again, and she immediately recognizes the voice on the other end. It's the tipster. Shirley hasn't heard from him in about a year, but his voice is unmistakable. And this time, the tipster's focus is not a murder. Instead, he claims to have information about a local burglary. Shirley processes the tip, and the caller hangs up. But a couple of weeks later, the tipster calls back, and this time, he tells Shirley that he wants immunity in Avril's case. It's unclear what he thinks Shirley can do here. We don't know exactly how Shirley responds to him on the phone, but the call ends and months pass with no new correspondence.
1:13:22 Speaker 01 So now it's August of 1987. Two years have passed since the tipster first called into the tip line, and a year has passed since Shirley last heard from him. Meanwhile, the police are still trying to figure out who killed Avril. Then on August 8th, so to the day, my sister's birthday, the tipster calls into secret witness once again. This time, he tells Shirley that he can reveal the location of a missing woman that he identifies as Gretchen Olston. But before he does, he wants to know how much the reward money will be. Shirley wants to keep him talking, so she reassures him that he will get money as long as his information helps investigators solve an active case.
1:14:07 Speaker 01 The phone call ends. And then days later, on August 17th, the tipster calls back. This time, he shares much more information. He says Gretchen was killed over a month ago, and then he gives the exact directions to her body. During this call, the tipster makes it clear that he wants his reward money handed over before an autopsy is conducted.
1:14:30 Georgia Hardstark? What?
1:14:31 Speaker 01 He also tells Shirley that once he picks up his reward, he will leave an envelope behind for investigators. And inside it, he will leave a piece of paper with Gretchen's killer's identity written on it. So almost every call with the tipster so far has unsettled Shirley. He speaks in a very pushy, specific kind of harsh tone. He's like very rushed, sounds very panicked. She knows his voice, of course, you know, like the back of her hand at this point.
1:15:00 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:15:01 Speaker 01 But because his information has always proven to be valuable, Shirley is becoming convinced she's talking to someone who is directly involved in these murders, and she wants to keep him talking. She does something that she would normally never do as the operator of an anonymous tip line. She decides she needs to record a few seconds of her next phone call with the tipster in case it's needed in a future trial, essentially.
1:15:29 Georgia Hardstark? Smart, very smart.
1:15:30 Speaker 01 Very smart. And Shirley doesn't have to wait long because within hours of their conversation about Gretchen Olston, the tipster calls back asking whether the police have found her body yet. As Shirley explains, they haven't found anything yet. She manages to get a couple of sentences of this conversation recorded. And now the tipster's voice is captured for the record. And as we were just saying during your story, but in a much smaller, dumber way. Recording a phone call in the mid eighties is difficult, to say the least.
1:16:03 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:16:04 Speaker 01 Like, what are you using? One of these guys from school?
1:16:07 Georgia Hardstark? Right. It's separate machines, completely.
1:16:10 Speaker 01 Holding up this to do this?
1:16:11 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, everything is manual, everything is
1:16:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:16:14 Georgia Hardstark? Clunky.
1:16:15 Speaker 01 Not easy to do, but she did it. What Shirley didn't know was while she was capturing this man's voice on the phone that same day, based on the tipster's information, officers do find a woman's body. And it's clear that she has been murdered. What is not clear is her identity. Detectives soon conclude that the name the tipster gave Gretchen Olston is a fake name. An autopsy will later reveal that this unidentified woman was sexually assaulted before being bludgeoned to death. And as promised, the $500 reward is placed in an envelope and left at a designated spot for the tipster to anonymously pick up. And as he promised, the tipster picks up the reward and leaves his own envelope behind for police.
1:17:00 Speaker 01 But when the police take that envelope and open it up, they find that it is empty. There is no reveal from the tipster, but the envelope is kept and collected as evidence. So it's around this time that a woman comes forward to report that two months earlier, in June of that year, she had been raped. And she names Bob Maury as her rapist. The woman says Bob picked her up on his motorcycle under the pretense that he was taking her to a party. But then he pulled into a remote wooded area and sexually assaulted her as he tried to strangle her.
1:17:34 Georgia Hardstark? Jesus.
1:17:35 Speaker 01 She was so sure that Bob was going to kill her, but then he didn't, he just took her home. She was so terrified, she didn't immediately report the attack. When telling investigators about the location of her assault, the woman describes the exact same area where police found the body of basically Jane Doe. Not Gretchen Olston, but the Jane Doe that they found based on the tipster's information.
1:18:02 Georgia Hardstark? Shit.
1:18:02 Speaker 01 Here's an infuriating sentence. It is unclear why, but Bob Maury is not taken into custody after the survivor of his violent sexual assaults comes forward and names him.
1:18:12 Georgia Hardstark? Jesus Christ.
1:18:14 Speaker 01 So now it's September, I mean, this is just kind of, we'll just
1:18:17 Georgia Hardstark? The theme.
1:18:18 Speaker 01 The theme is time and place. The time and place is the eighties.
1:18:22 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:18:23 Speaker 01 Not a pretty time. So now it's September 15th, 1987. Shirley's still at work at the tip line. The phone rings. She picks it up. Once again, it's the tipster. This time, he asks about reward money in the case of a missing 20-year-old local woman named Dawn Berryhill. Dawn was last seen on June 22nd, 1987, on the back of an unidentified man's motorcycle. Multiple people, including Dawn's mother, saw her with this man, but they don't know who he is. Police learned that Dawn had told a neighbor she was going to buy some pot with a guy named Bob.
1:18:58 Georgia Hardstark? I mean...
1:19:00 Speaker 01 So Shirley confirms that the reward amount for this case is $500, but the tipster now tries to play hardball over that amount. He hangs up. He calls back repeatedly. He's trying to negotiate with her. Shirley has real reason to believe the tipster will have information that will lead to police finding yet another body. So to keep him talking, she actually gets secret witnesses' permission, like the association that put this tip line together. She gets permission to bump up the reward to $1,250.
1:19:33 Georgia Hardstark? Jesus.
1:19:34 Speaker 01 And with that, the tipster starts talking. He tells Shirley where they'll find Dawn's body, again relaying distances and meters. Then he denies any involvement in her death. At one point, the tipster seems paranoid, so Shirley calmly reaffirms to him that the line is anonymous and that, quote, "She could not recognize a person's voice since she talked to so many people every day."
1:19:57 Georgia Hardstark? Good for her.
1:19:58 Speaker 01 End quote. And then I just wrote, "You're allowed to lie to liars. That's the rule."
1:20:04 Speaker 01 And murderers.
1:20:04 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:20:05 Speaker 01 So using the tipster's information, police are able to locate the remains of Dawn Berryhill. She's found in the same area where both the body of the Jane Doe was recovered and where the survivor of Bob Maury's sexual assaults reported being attacked. Investigators are now convinced that Bob Maury is responsible for the murders of at least three women, Avril Whedon, Dawn Berryhill, and their Jane Doe, as well as the rape of one survivor. But before they charge him with any of these crimes, they want to confirm their suspicion that Bob Maury is the tipster. So for this detectives turn to Shirley Landreth, who's just set up yet another discreet drop off for the tipsters reward money.
1:20:50 Speaker 01 But she's very ethical as the operator of an anonymous tip line. She very much believes in the importance of the integrity of it.
1:20:58 Georgia Hardstark? Okay.
1:20:58 Speaker 01 So she doesn't try to find his name. But someone at the secret witness tip line, we don't know who.
1:21:07 Georgia Hardstark? Oh.
1:21:08 Speaker 01 Shares the drop off point for the tipsters latest reward.
1:21:12 Georgia Hardstark? Nice.
1:21:13 Speaker 01 You get him on a, on a, what's that called?
1:21:15 Georgia Hardstark? Technicality.
1:21:16 Speaker 01 Technicality, thank you. You give me all my words on this episode, please. Soon Detective Monday, who is already actively tailing Bob Maury, watches as Bob arrives at and then exits the designated building where the reward money has been left for the tipster.
1:21:32 Georgia Hardstark? Sure.
1:21:32 Speaker 01 And with that, it's confirmed that Bob Maury is the tipster. But when officers confront him about picking up the tip money, he admits to knowing, quote, "all kinds of girls," end quote, "who have gone missing," but denies ever murdering anyone.
1:21:48 Georgia Hardstark? Can you imagine? Yeah, I know all kinds of, what are you fucking talking about, dude?
1:21:51 Speaker 01 What are you talking about, Bob? Two weeks later, on October 14th, 1987, Shirley receives a call at the secret witness tip line. Once again, it's the tipster, but this time he's pissed. He would like to speak with the tip line's higher ups to complain about this breach of anonymity.
1:22:09 Georgia Hardstark? He wants to talk to the manager.
1:22:11 Speaker 01 He would like to Karen it up with the manager about how he's been treated poorly as.
1:22:16 Georgia Hardstark? Reporting all these murdered women.
1:22:19 Speaker 01 Being paid for the information that only he knows about murdered women.
1:22:23 Georgia Hardstark? I hate him.
1:22:24 Speaker 01 Yeah. He even threatens to print 10,000 flyers shaming secret witness for failing to protect his identity.
1:22:32 Georgia Hardstark? Uh, I think everyone would be fine with that.
1:22:35 Speaker 01 Yeah. Flyer it up, fool.
1:22:36 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:22:37 Speaker 01 Shirley tells him that she'll see what she can do.
1:22:40 Georgia Hardstark? She knows, she's playing the game.
1:22:41 Speaker 01 She knows exactly how to play this man. Then she contacts her colleagues at the tip line and the police, and they all together come up with a plan. They're going to pull in another secret witness employee who will meet Bob Maury to hear out his concerns, while trying to get more information out of him. Their ultimate goal being getting him to help them identify their Jane Doe.
1:23:03 Speaker 01 At this meeting, Bob can't seem to help himself. After some light questioning, he reveals that he knows where to find the Jane Doe's purse, but that he wants money for that information.
1:23:12 Georgia Hardstark? He thinks he's smarter than everyone else, right?
1:23:15 Speaker 01 They always do.
1:23:16 Georgia Hardstark? They really do.
1:23:17 Speaker 01 They always do. And in this way where it's just like, you think you've basically figured out a way to get paid for your drugs or whatever else it is you're doing.
1:23:27 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
1:23:28 Speaker 01 But also, it's that part of, I don't know if it's always psychopaths, but that they have to talk to police.
1:23:34 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
1:23:34 Speaker 01 Like, it's part of the, it's part of it.
1:23:37 Georgia Hardstark? Or, yeah.
1:23:38 Speaker 01 Yes, that they want to be known, they want people to talk to them about it. It's what makes them special.
1:23:42 Georgia Hardstark? Totally.
1:23:43 Speaker 01 He wants money for the information about where Jane Doe's purse is. He also wants help getting a few traffic tickets taken care of.
1:23:49 Georgia Hardstark? Duh.
1:23:50 Speaker 01 When the secret witness staffer tells Bob everything he wants to hear, Bob shares exact directions to the location of Jane Doe's purse. And police immediately find that purse and the driver's license inside, which identifies the Jane Doe as 30-year-old Belinda Jo Stark. She was last seen in June, around the same time Dawn was reported missing, and when the survivor of Bob's sexual assault reported being attacked.
1:24:16 Georgia Hardstark? Wow.
1:24:17 Speaker 01 Incredibly, Bob Mori, no longer an anonymous tipster and probably a serial rapist and killer, collects the reward for his information about the purse.
1:24:28 Georgia Hardstark? Stop it. Stop. Okay.
1:24:30 Speaker 01 You think you're-
1:24:31 Georgia Hardstark? There's a plan.
1:24:31 Speaker 01 You're, you don't get the only frustrating story about how fucked things are and were and continue to be.
1:24:36 Georgia Hardstark? Fair enough.
1:24:38 Speaker 01 By this point, police have collected some solid evidence. It's mostly thanks to Bob himself.
1:24:43 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:24:44 Speaker 01 Who's arguably maybe the dumbest person on the planet. But now, the investigators have Bob's fingerprints that are all over Belinda Jo's purse, as well as all over the envelope left by the tipster at the drop-off location.
1:24:58 Georgia Hardstark? Right.
1:24:59 Speaker 01 They also show a blanket recovered near Belinda Jo's body to two of Bob's former roommates, who confirmed that it looks identical to one he used to have at his home.
1:25:08 Georgia Hardstark? This is giving me like, remember the movie River's Edge?
1:25:12 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:25:12 Georgia Hardstark? It's like, giving me like vibes of that.
1:25:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:25:15 Georgia Hardstark? You know?
1:25:16 Speaker 01 Yes, kind of like scumbag that's doing stuff around town and people kind of-
1:25:20 Georgia Hardstark? He's stupid, but he's getting away with it because it's the 80s.
1:25:24 Speaker 01 It's the 80s. On November 6, 1987, investigators arrest Bob Maury and charge him with the murders of Avril Whedon, Belinda Jo Stark, and Dawn Barryhill. He is also charged with rape. When this case goes to trial, witnesses testify to seeing Bob with these women before they disappeared, and some even tell the court that Bob admitted to murdering women.
1:25:46 Georgia Hardstark? Yes.
1:25:46 Speaker 01 A former coworker testifies that Bob Maury once told her, quote, "Listen, bitch, I have killed before, and you'll be just one more. I'm going to snuff you out."
1:25:58 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my God.
1:25:58 Speaker 01 End quote. So it's nice, because these days, you could turn around and report that as a coworker of this person. But the key witness in this case is Shirley Landreth. Over the past three or so years, Shirley has spoken on the phone with the tipster somewhere around 20 times.
1:26:17 Georgia Hardstark? Wow.
1:26:18 Speaker 01 And she has processed his disturbing, ultra-specific tips that successfully lead to the recovery of three bodies and repeated reward payouts. By this point, Shirley has revealed her recording of the tipster's voice to investigators. They've listened to it, compared it with Bob's own voice, and determined it is the same man. It fits into the prosecution's narrative that Bob carried out these murders himself, which is how he had these tips in the first place. When Shirley takes the stand, she tells the court that she believes the tipster is Bob Maury, pointing out the similarities in their words, like meters instead of feet and the tone of voice. She says, quote, "The speed of the speech, the pushiness of it, the way certain words
1:27:01 Speaker 01 are grouped together, the abruptness of the way he terminates conversations."
1:27:05 Georgia Hardstark? How scary that the whole time, though, she goes home from work and he could know who she is. You know what I mean?
1:27:11 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's not a big place.
1:27:13 Georgia Hardstark? I wouldn't sleep at night if I were her. I'd be so scared.
1:27:15 Speaker 01 It would be really scary.
1:27:16 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:27:18 Speaker 01 Bob Morey never admits to any of the crimes he's charged with, and he brags that no jury would dare convict him. But if there's one thing we know about Bob Morey, he's dumb. He is found guilty of rape and murder, and to this day, remains on death row at San Quentin. Now known as the Tipster Killer, he is thought to be responsible for other unsolved murders in Shasta County.
1:27:42 Georgia Hardstark? Definitely.
1:27:43 Speaker 01 Because Bob has never confessed, we do not know his motive, but it has been theorized that he liked playing games with the police through those tips. Reports vary on how much Bob Morey collected from the secret witness tip line, but we do know it was somewhere around a few thousand dollars, which would be around eight thousand dollars in today's money. He used it to buy, among other things, a new motorcycle.
1:28:10 Speaker 01 But thanks to Shirley Landreth and her work at the secret witness tip line, she trusted her gut, she kept him talking, and she did that right up until his arrest. A few years after the trial, a Redding newspaper features a story about Shirley Landreth and her deep commitment to the community via her involvement in Bob Morey's case. But it also talks about her participation in local food drives, screening programs for sick children, and more. In the article, she's quoted as simply saying, "I like to help people."
1:28:39 Georgia Hardstark? Oh my god.
1:28:40 Speaker 01 Shirley Landreth passes away in 1994 at the age of 62. She had cancer. Today, the secret witness tip line of Shasta County still exists. And just like Shirley Landreth, its current operators are committed to keeping callers anonymous. It takes very special circumstances, like a suspected serial killer repeatedly calling in for months for that to change.
1:29:04 Georgia Hardstark? Jesus.
1:29:05 Speaker 01 As Detective Monday once told reporters, quote, "It's secret witness, not secret suspect."
1:29:11 Georgia Hardstark? Damn.
1:29:12 Speaker 01 And that's the story of a serial killer known as the Tipster Killer and Shirley Landreth, the tip line operator, who helped take him down.
1:29:19 Georgia Hardstark? I mean, can we get a made-for-TV movie immediately?
1:29:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:29:23 Georgia Hardstark? That's incredible.
1:29:24 Speaker 01 Isn't that good?
1:29:25 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah, I had never heard of that.
1:29:27 Speaker 01 Yeah, I had neither.
1:29:29 Georgia Hardstark? That's just so sad. I mean, and then he was getting money from it, which just feels so dirty.
1:29:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:29:37 Speaker 01 Wow.
1:29:37 Georgia Hardstark? And this is exactly why we've decided to bring fucking hooray back.
1:29:43 Georgia Hardstark? Cause we want to end this on a cheery note, not just here. So we're doing fucking hurraies again. You guys just send us what your fucking hooray is like the good thing happening for you this week, this month, this year, this life, the thing that you're excited about, looking forward to, or had had happened to you, or happened to other people, or just things you're happy about. And you can comment on our social media or email to us or do whatever the fuck, you know, yell it into the sky. You can hashtag it fucking hooray. The end. That was so much information. Jesus.
1:30:13 Speaker 01 That was a lot.
1:30:13 Georgia Hardstark? Okay. You have one?
1:30:15 Speaker 01 I do. Go ahead.
1:30:16 Georgia Hardstark? Okay. This one's called fucking hurraies. Are we still doing these?
1:30:20 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:30:21 Georgia Hardstark? Hey, podcasters. I'm not sure if we're still doing fucking hurraies, but maybe this is just for myself to have a record to look back on bad days. I turned 30 in five days and although I dread the big three O, my high school self, and even my 25 year old self, would be so proud of the person I have become and how far I've come from where I was and where I could have been, which I fucking hear you. From growing up surrounded by drugs, sus ass people, and not always loving home, I am making it in this world day after day and looking back only a little other than the fond memories. I've beaten the statistics of a poverty stricken, drug using jailbird shell of a person, like the people I grew up around. And for that, I say fucking hooray.
1:31:06 Georgia Hardstark? Stay sexy and listen to Joe Dirt when he says, keep on keeping on and life's a garden. Dig it. Cause that mullet wearing dude is right. Kelsey. Yeah. Shout out to someone that means a lot to me that I grew up with and went through the same crazy shit. Kelsey, we beat the statistics and grabbed life by the balls.
1:31:24 Speaker 01 Two Kelseys?
1:31:24 Georgia Hardstark? But I E and E Y.
1:31:26 Speaker 01 Are you serious?
1:31:27 Georgia Hardstark? Yes, swear.
1:31:28 Speaker 01 Oh, they're best friends for life.
1:31:29 Georgia Hardstark? I know.
1:31:30 Speaker 01 Oh, Kelsey.
1:31:31 Georgia Hardstark? I love it. I'm so proud of you guys. And I, I heard this like, you know, one of those fucking quotes on social media. It's like, no one is cheering for you harder than your childhood self, who's watching you from the sidelines now going.
1:31:43 Speaker 01 That's right.
1:31:44 Georgia Hardstark? Hell, yeah.
1:31:44 Speaker 01 You're doing it.
1:31:45 Georgia Hardstark? Hell, yeah.
1:31:46 Speaker 01 You're doing it.
1:31:47 Georgia Hardstark? Hell, yeah. Okay.
1:31:48 Speaker 01 Amazing, Kelsey. Congratulations. All right. Here's this one. It says, hey, howdy, hey ladies with a Z. After owning our house for not even a full year, our basement flooded during a 24-hour-long power outage caused by a tornado.
1:32:03 Georgia Hardstark? Jesus.
1:32:04 Speaker 01 Picture me, home alone with a bowl from the kitchen, bailing water out of the basement like it was a sinking boat. Sadly, it was all in vain, and we ended up with a foot of floodwater in our basement for roughly 18 hours. Everything was trashed. How is this a fucking hooray, you may ask? Because after fighting like hell against the water and having our basement look like an absolute war zone for four months, we finally got our drywall replaced. The carpet and pad were a total loss, but it feels good to finally be taking our basement back. Fucking hooray for homeownership, even the really shitty parts. Stay sexy and, for the love of God, get a sump pump with a battery backup. Ashley with an I.
1:32:44 Georgia Hardstark? Oh, my God, like, I need to listen to that because our basement has flooded multiple fucking times.
1:32:48 Speaker 01 Go get that.
1:32:49 Georgia Hardstark? I'm gonna. That's good advice.
1:32:51 Speaker 01 So scary. So, surviving that, getting through it.
1:32:54 Georgia Hardstark? And still having a fucking hooray, even though it's like,
1:32:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:32:57 Georgia Hardstark? that's, that's the way to live your life.
1:32:59 Speaker 01 And being grateful for what you have.
1:33:00 Georgia Hardstark? Yeah.
1:33:01 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:33:02 Georgia Hardstark? Send us your fucking hurraes.
1:33:03 Speaker 01 And stay sexy.
1:33:04 Georgia Hardstark? And don't get murdered.
1:33:06 Speaker 01 Goodbye.
1:33:07 Speaker 02 Elvis, do you want a cookie?
1:33:16 Speaker 01 This has been an Exactly Right production.
1:33:18 Georgia Hardstark? Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.
1:33:21 Speaker 01 Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.
1:33:23 Georgia Hardstark? This episode was mixed by Leona Scolacci.
1:33:25 Speaker 01 Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Ally Elkin.
1:33:28 Georgia Hardstark? Email your hometowns to [email protected] .
1:33:31 Speaker 01 Follow the show on Instagram at MyFavoriteMurder.
1:33:34 Georgia Hardstark? Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
1:33:39 Speaker 01 And now you can watch us on Exactly Right's YouTube page. While you're there, please like and subscribe. Goodbye.
1:33:52 Speaker 03 She's been thinking about this sleepover all week, but I think about her food allergies all the time. Fortunately, her doctor prescribed Zolair, omalizumab. It's proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens.
1:34:05 Speaker 04 Zolair 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people 1 years of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods. While taking Zolair, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Zolair. Zolair may cause a severe, life-threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Zolair should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. Zolair is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection, or hardened circulation problems have been reported. Please see zolair.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Zolair. This is an advertisement for Zolair,
1:34:49 Speaker 04 paid for by Genentech and Novartis.
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