Behind the Scenes Minis: Art and Theme Parks

Holly shares a quote from Daniela Lippi about the importance of ongoing learning in the restoration profession. There is then discussion of the nerve-racking construction of Disneyland. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Speaker 01

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• 1:08Holly Frey?

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• 2:19Holly Frey?

  Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeart Radio.

• 2:29Holly Frey?

  Hello and happy Friday. I'm Holly Frey.

• 2:32Tracy V. Wilson?

  And I'm Tracy V. Wilson.

• 2:34Holly Frey?

  We talked about the Uffizi Gallery.

• 2:36Tracy V. Wilson?

  Uh huh.

• 2:37Holly Frey?

  And the yucky bombing and some paintings and painting restoration. Love all of it.

• 2:42Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 2:43Holly Frey?

  You know what? We only talked about a minimal amount because he's not really germane to this one.

• 2:48Tracy V. Wilson?

  What?

• 2:48Holly Frey?

  Caravaggio.

• 2:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, only a little.

• 2:53Holly Frey?

  I love that man's work, but like it was Sarah and Deblina that did an episode on him, right?

• 2:58Tracy V. Wilson?

  I think so.

• 2:59Holly Frey?

  He was a lot. I mean, he was a lot. He had a temper, just a temper, temper. But what's really interesting about that, and as it relates to Bartolomeo Manfredi and other people that painted in the Caravaggesque style, is that the Caravagisti, his followers, couldn't really exist until after he had left Rome.

• 3:21Tracy V. Wilson?

  Hmm.

• 3:22Holly Frey?

  Because he was apparently so cantankerous about people trying to paint like him that they probably all would have gotten in

• 3:32Holly Frey?

  the crosshairs of his ire.

• 3:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, wow.

• 3:34Holly Frey?

  And as you know, he was a physically violent man, so they couldn't have done it. I just think that's interesting.

• 3:40Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:47Holly Frey?

  We were talking about, at the end of that episode, Daniela Lippi, who did the amazing restoration on the car

• 3:56Tracy V. Wilson?

  players.

• 3:57Holly Frey?

  And in that interview that she gave with Scala Archives in 2023, she made this statement, it was not particularly germane to this episode, but I really loved the mindset of it and I loved the message of it. Because she said, "Like other professions, restoration is a field where one cannot or should not feel one has arrived. Each work of art is unique and must be treated as such, depending on its creation technique, its conservation conditions, and its problems, intrinsic or due to external causes. Materials and methods of intervention are constant." Evolving refresher courses should be followed each year,

• 4:40Holly Frey?

  both regarding the methods with the least environmental impact and above all, to ensure the health of the operator. And I was like, are you the best person on earth? Like, she's just like, don't rest on your laurels.

• 4:53Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 4:53Holly Frey?

  Ever get cocky, keep learning.

• 4:55Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 4:56Holly Frey?

  Keep taking care of yourself and the earth. And I'm like, what a great bunch of messages in one quote. I was like, I think I love her. Anyway, I just think that's amazing. She sounds amazing.

• 5:06Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 5:06Holly Frey?

  There is also, I didn't ever find any direct quotations of it, any direct reference to it, et cetera. But I, I really feel like it seems obvious, but I want to point it out that in the aftermath of the bombing, all of those issues they were having with bureaucracy, keeping them from being able to like, do basic updates to the museum. Kind of fell away. So they got this like post bureaucracy thing that is exactly why they were able to become a model for how you recover a museum from a tragedy.

• 5:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, wow.

• 5:50Holly Frey?

  When nobody's in the way anymore. And they're like, yes, of course, do whatever it takes to save the museum and, and restore pieces. And suddenly, like, the people who are actually like, the conservators, the director of the museum, when they're actually driving the bus decision wise, suddenly everything got super efficient and like, super quick, but also very careful. Like, I'm just like, this is one of those moments where you want to go, do you see why sometimes bureaucracy is not great?

• 6:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right, right.

• 6:19Holly Frey?

  The people that are in charge of these things should actually be allowed to be in charge of these things and who know what that job is more than like some.

• 6:28Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 6:29Holly Frey?

  Bureaucrat in Rome, who didn't really understand how the museum ran or what it actually needed. I'm like, look how quickly they overcame these problems. I will say the Uffizi is still very crowded.

• 6:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 6:42Holly Frey?

  We didn't go when we went to Italy for history class.

• 6:48Holly Frey?

  I see why.

• 6:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 6:53Tracy V. Wilson?

  That description of what it was like to like have to elbow your way through. Reminded me of when we did go to Versailles when we were in Paris.

• 7:04Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 7:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  That is the most crowded museum I have ever been to.

• 7:10Holly Frey?

  Yeah, it was pretty intense.

• 7:11Tracy V. Wilson?

  Um, really packed in there, shoulder to shoulder and kind of shuffling along in a mass.

• 7:19Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 7:20Tracy V. Wilson?

  Trying not to think about what would happen if there was an emergency and people needed to exit quickly.

• 7:25Holly Frey?

  Yeah, yeah. The Uffizi is, I don't want to say it's as bad as Versailles because it isn't, but it is a little like it in terms of how they have kind of tried to solve the problem of crowd control, which is that you know how when you go to Versailles? You're on a track, like you can't be like, I want to go back to the Hall of Mirrors. It's like, no.

• 7:46Tracy V. Wilson?

  Too bad.

• 7:47Holly Frey?

  You go forward. That's, that's how it happens. And the Uffizi is kind of the same. There's nobody stopping you from backtracking, but there really is a path that they have laid out that they kind of tell you is the optimal path to take. And it's a little counterintuitive because you go all the way up and then back down to the second floor.

• 8:10Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 8:10Holly Frey?

  You work your way from the top down. And then if you're doing, if you have tickets to, to go into the Vasari Corridor, which we did, oh, I'll tell you, I had a wild experience doing that one. And I don't want to put anybody on blast, but it was weird.

• 8:26Holly Frey?

  Then you have to like, kind of backtrack a little bit to get to the entry to the corridor. Cause it's, it's over near, it's on the same floor as like what I was after, which was the Artemisia Gentileschi.

• 8:38Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 8:38Holly Frey?

  Dune's, Dune's beheading Hall of Fairness. But even so, it is, it is quite crowded, but not as bad as Versailles. And it is a beautiful museum. On the inside in particular, like it's a cool building from the outside, but on the inside, like the decor is like gorgeous.

• 8:54Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 8:55Holly Frey?

  And some of the rooms that you can see black and white photos of the explosion, like they do not do the decor of those rooms justice. Pretending you're not looking at rubble, like the colors are like these beautiful candy colors and they're absolutely gorgeous and everything is just beautiful. Vasari Corridor. So this is another one where it's like they only take a limited number of people. You have a guide in front of you and another at the back to kind of make sure nobody straggles. So your group kind of has to stay together. And the man that was in the front of our group that was doing the talking, and he's not talking a lot. He's not like pointing out art. He's just like basically stopping and saying like, here's what we're doing next. Here's what we're doing next.

• 9:40Holly Frey?

  Occasionally he'll stop and say like, here's the room or whatever. But he had this very low, very resonant voice and it was in a way that would not carry

• 9:50Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh.

• 9:51Holly Frey?

  in all directions. So I couldn't hear him. Several of us couldn't hear or understand him because it was like, because it was so low. Any of the plosives were kind of getting clipped out and you just heard like this beautiful wave of sound, but I couldn't tell if he was giving us important information. And I had kind of leaned forward and he had looked at me and said, do you understand? And I was like, what? You're a little hard to hear. Your voice is so resonant. But after that, like I apparently flagged myself as the stupidest person on earth because Oh, no. every time we stopped, he would talk to the group and then he would come over to me and get in my face and go, did you understand? And I was like, oh my goodness, I'm mortified. I was like, Dawn, he thinks I'm the dumb dumb.

• 10:36Holly Frey?

  It was a little weird. It was a little aggressive, but it was also very funny after the fact.

• 10:41Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah, this is why I've really come to love the little whisper devices that we have on, we've had on all of our trips that we've done for the podcast.

• 10:49Holly Frey?

  They don't have them for that.

• 10:50Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah. And I, I'm assuming that if they did have them for that, you would have used them. But like, they're the little devices where the person guiding can talk at a typical volume. And ideally a little microphone picks it up and broadcasts it to everybody else. And it's like, we have had technical issues with them.

• 11:09Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 11:09Tracy V. Wilson?

  On a different points on a number of trips, but like there, it still makes it so much easier to hear.

• 11:16Holly Frey?

  Yeah.

• 11:16Tracy V. Wilson?

  What is being said? And also without disrupting things for other people around who are not on your tour.

• 11:23Holly Frey?

  Yeah. Yeah. In that case, there's nobody else around because it's just your group in the corridor.

• 11:27Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right. I would also be very embarrassed.

• 11:30Holly Frey?

  I'm sure after we left, he was like, man, that lady with the purple hair was as dumb as can be. Just the stupidest person I've ever encountered. Can't understand a word I said. I, it was just, it was very funny. It was very funny after the fact. And then we had a lovely meal and a waiter wanted to compare tattoos. It was great. It was the best. Yeah. The effici is beautiful. I see why that was not a thing that got picked on our trip to do because it is very crowded. It's hard. There are some groups that go through there, but they are struggling. Like it's, it's hard to keep everybody together. And with a group the size of ours, it would have been very difficult.

• 12:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 12:05Holly Frey?

  A little maddening, I think. So I think that probably was what led to that decision. But I want to go back there a million times because it's beautiful. I mean, Florence is beautiful. Florence is so walkable. There's so many cool things she can go visit without having to ever get in a car.

• 12:19Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 12:20Holly Frey?

  You know, we went to Michelangelo's tomb. We went to, I think I mentioned before, we went to the Barchello, which was right across the street from where we stayed, which is an incredible museum. Just a million cool places that are gorgeous. And I really like Florence a bunch.

• 12:34Tracy V. Wilson?

  I love not having to get in a car.

• 12:36Holly Frey?

  I do too. We also got a car service for every transfer we had to do while we were there, which was funny. Cause in Rome, our hotel staff, which who were amazing. They had said, like, do you need us to call you a car for, I think we had to go to the train station. We're like, no, no, no, we already have a car coming. And they were like, oh, what service did you use? And we told them and they were like, did they overcharge you? And I was like, I don't even care because they take care of everything. They literally come into the hotel and get your bags and put them in the car for you and like.

• 13:05Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:06Holly Frey?

  Worth every penny. It's the best, the best. Cause I didn't want to figure it out. I have friends that are there right now who drove themselves from Florence to Rome, which sounds slightly terrifying to me.

• 13:18Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 13:19Holly Frey?

  Just because it's a, a hard drive, Italian driving practices are not the same as here. Like the attitude about driving. So my hat is off to my friend who drove that. But it's cool. Uh, the last thing I actually wanted to say, which kind of hit my heart in all of this. There's a unique thing that had me thinking about Bartolomeo Menthredi.

• 13:42Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:43Holly Frey?

  Which is that we don't know much about his life, as we said at the top of the episode.

• 13:49Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:49Holly Frey?

  And reading about the way his work had to be pieced together by Lippi and her team made me think about the way his life has had to be pieced together by biographers.

• 14:00Tracy V. Wilson?

  Uh-huh.

• 14:01Holly Frey?

  And I was like, what a weird parallel that his art got destroyed in this way, just the same way, records of his life have, you know, not survived or whatever. And we've had to, we're just trying to like, put together who we think he was and what exactly this art should look like. And I don't know, it just struck me as interesting.

• 14:19Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 14:19Holly Frey?

  Art, talk about it forever. I have a problem. I do not wish to seek treatment for my art addiction.

• 14:28Holly Frey?

  I'll go stand and cry in a museum all day long. I'm sure everybody in Italy thinks I have emotional stability issues because I cry at art like nobody's business.

• 14:40Speaker 04

  First thought is like, wow, how are we going to do all this?

• 14:43Tracy V. Wilson?

  Hey, everybody. It's Tracy from Stuff You Missed in History Class. That's Alan Goya, a planning engineer at AT&T. He's talking about Intuit Dome, home of the Los Angeles Clippers, where every seat, screen, phone, and transaction is connected with AT&T fiber and 5G, defining the fans' experience. And Alan's master plan made it all possible.

• 15:04Speaker 04

  It was going to rival anything that was already built. And that takes quite a bit of people and different teams to all be on the same page.

• 15:11Tracy V. Wilson?

  That includes field services manager Drexel Jones. His team made sure it all came together and held up on game day.

• 15:18Speaker 05

  Through what Alan's whole crew designed, we connected the event visitors to the world.

• 15:24Tracy V. Wilson?

  And after years of hard work and collaboration, it was opening night.

• 15:27Speaker 05

  To actually see the whole stadium light up and data's flowing is a beautiful thing.

• 15:31Speaker 04

  What the fans experienced is incredible. It gave me a lot of pride.

• 15:35Tracy V. Wilson?

  AT&T, connecting fans to what they love.

• 15:37Speaker 06

  Connecting changes everything. AT&T.

• 15:41Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 16:26Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 16:47Speaker 07

  This mood check is brought to you by State Farm. Porque tu bienestar también merece protección. Que tal, mi gente? Honey German checking in contigo. Take a second. Literalmente, un momentico para ti. How's your corazón feeling today? If it's a little tired, a little oof, you're not alone. Have you eaten algo rico? Taken a deep breath? Maybe even turned off your phone for cinco minutitos? I promise, the memes will still be there. Sometimes self-care isn't candles and meditation. It's just saying no. It's drinking a little bit of agua. It's letting yourself rest sin pena. You don't have to prove anything today. Just be. Breathe. Estás haciendo lo mejor que puedes. And yes, that's enough.

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• 17:33Tracy V. Wilson?

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• 18:09Holly Frey?

  I got to talk to Leslie Iwerks this week.

• 18:11Tracy V. Wilson?

  You did?

• 18:12Holly Frey?

  A dream.

• 18:13Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yay.

• 18:14Holly Frey?

  A dream. I mean, I really, she is somebody whose work I have admired so much. We talked a lot about her various documentaries. The one that she did about her grandfather that was her first film about Iwerks was like, the first time I saw it, I was just blown away by how good it was. So I'm not surprised. She mentioned in that interview how other people were also blown away and it went from kind of a small project to a bigger project, which I think is terrific. This is funny because we talked a lot when we were talking about our Haunted Mansion episodes. In those episodes, we talked a lot about how difficult the opening of Disneyland was and how

• 18:54Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 18:55Holly Frey?

  right up to the last minute, they were working and some of the work was, you know, literally being finished while people were walking through the gates and how the asphalt hadn't, hadn't solidified yet. And it's one thing to talk about all of that, but then to see all of the video that was shot was amazing and terrifying. I mean, it literally, it's like, if you are a person who is deadline driven and, you know, like a project management type person, it's gotta be so scary because it's, it's all just, there's a shocking amount of working on vibes.

• 19:37Holly Frey?

  Right. We didn't, we didn't talk about it in my interview very much with Leslie because there was only so much time, but like, one of the things that really jumped out to me was that, I mean, we did talk about how there were only like 10% of the plans in place when they started on the park. But one of the things that jumped out to me, and they talk about it in the film, that comes up in, in the, the discussion, is that they weren't always working off of specific plans in some cases. Right. There was a lot of, here's what I want. And then the incredibly

• 20:11Holly Frey?

  Talented and skilled workmen would just kind of be like, all right, I guess we'll figure out how to make that.

• 20:16Tracy V. Wilson?

  They'd make it do.

• 20:19Holly Frey?

  There wasn't a lot of documentation of how they were doing it because they were making it up as they went along, which sounds slapdash, but also like, these are people who were very dedicated to it, very hardworking. You can tell in that footage, like, some of those people are just really busting out work at an incredible rate and an incredible level of quality. But it was just like, this is, this could never happen again.

• 20:44Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right, right.

• 20:45Holly Frey?

  Or the odds are very long, right?

• 20:47Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 20:47Holly Frey?

  To put enough money behind a project like that, where you're kind of just trusting the people involved, but also like, bearing the burden of if it's a failure, it's all on you. Like, nobody, very few people are, would be willing to do such a thing. It's astonishing. Kind of inspiring. Uh, one of the other things that I really did like about it, about this film, and I hope everybody watches it, because it's just an eye-opener in a variety of ways about, you know, what projects like that take, like, dream projects. But it really does not pull punches about the fact that like, everybody was not happy

• 21:28Holly Frey?

  all the time, and everybody was not like, Walt is the best. Some people were like, Walt is riding us way too hard. We don't know what we're doing.

• 21:36Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 21:36Holly Frey?

  We're exhausted and freaking out. Now, they did pull it off, so.

• 21:40Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 21:42Holly Frey?

  There's always that thing, there's, you'll hear like, both sides of that coin sometimes if you do a lot of reading of, of Disney history and, and parks history in particular, that like, on the one hand, there are people who are like, you know, Walt would just see things in people and he would trust that they could do what he needed them to do. And so he would ask them to do it, even if they didn't believe they could.

• 22:04Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:04Holly Frey?

  Which is kind of a great thing in some ways, right? But then this also shows the, like, people going, we don't, we don't, we're so tired. We don't know what we're doing.

• 22:12Tracy V. Wilson?

  Please let us rest.

• 22:13Holly Frey?

  You're asking so much all the time.

• 22:15Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 22:15Holly Frey?

  Which is just interesting.

• 22:18Holly Frey?

  Also, what a good bit of fortune that he did hire camera crews to document the entire thing.

• 22:26Tracy V. Wilson?

  Mm hmm.

• 22:27Holly Frey?

  But then all that footage until this, well, one of Leslie's earlier projects uses some of it, but that footage just sat around for decades unused. And now, like, we finally all get to watch these people carve, you know, teeny little lines in various pieces of faux, you know, European brickwork and stuff.

• 22:45Tracy V. Wilson?

  Oh, sure.

• 22:46Holly Frey?

  And it's just, I could watch that stuff all day long. I could watch it all day long. It's fascinating. And now the parks are everywhere and huge and

• 22:55Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 22:55Holly Frey?

  Entire giant teams and

• 22:57Tracy V. Wilson?

  And building codes.

• 23:00Holly Frey?

  Building codes, building codes. I did have a wonder, and I don't want to speculate too much because I don't know. But for anybody in our audience that doesn't know, who isn't a giant Star Wars nerd like myself, it has been in the news. The Disneyland's approach to Galaxy's Edge, which is the Star Wars section of Disneyland, is changing a little bit in terms of like, what on the Star Wars timeline can be in the park?

• 23:28Tracy V. Wilson?

  Okay.

• 23:28Holly Frey?

  And one of the things that happened in that changeover, and I won't get into that because that is a whole discussion. Listen, there's a lot of, I've talked about it a lot very publicly, but there, one of the things that happened is that Oga's Cantina closed there in Disneyland for a while and then reopened. And we were all like, I wonder, is it getting a makeover? Is this changing? There were some speculation on my part, certainly, and others about things in the Cantina. I'm trying to talk about this generally without getting in the weeds. It's hard for me because I'm like, everybody knows this. They don't. I understand, I'm the weirdo. But we thought there were things that were going to have to change within the Cantina to address this shift in like, how they were managing timeline.

• 24:11Holly Frey?

  But in fact, like Brian and I were out there at the beginning of April, which was after it had reopened, and we went And we didn't notice anything.

• 24:21Tracy V. Wilson?

  It seems the same.

• 24:22Holly Frey?

  Changes, they're subtle, but it made me wonder if some of that wasn't circling back. I did have a point to code. I don't think anything was ever not to code, but I do think there were, there were elements of their infrastructure that might've needed updating in terms of like their electrical and stuff, not necessarily because there's any danger, but just to meet the needs of like, modern machinery that gets used in places like that.

• 24:47Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 24:48Holly Frey?

  Anyway, that's strictly speculation on my part. I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm, I'm guessing, I'm playing a guessing game. So don't anybody think I just told you some big piece of knowledge.

• 24:57Tracy V. Wilson?

  Right.

• 24:58Holly Frey?

  I didn't, but I sure love Ogas and I love Disneyland and Disney World. Disney World is our close one, so it feels like home to me. Disneyland feels like an adventure, even though it's a much smaller footprint and easier to traverse. You know, we've talked about this as well. Like if you're in Disney World, it's four parks, it's huge. You have to bus between the parks if you're gonna go to more than one park in a day. Disneyland, you just walk back and forth across the plaza if you want to go to the other park. It feels so tiny to me in that regard. Both fun, both great, different, different adventures.

• 25:40Tracy V. Wilson?

  Yeah.

• 25:40Holly Frey?

  Pros and cons, right? I like the bubble of the big property. I like knowing that I am in Disney at all times, whereas like in Anaheim, you can just walk out on the street and you're just in Anaheim. Less bubbly, all good, all good. In any case, if this is your weekend coming up, I hope that you get time to go to an amusement park, to watch a movie you like, maybe watch a good documentary I know one to recommend, or just, you know, engage with whatever ignites your creativity or your imagination, or your inner spark, or just makes you feel peaceful. That is also valuable.

• 26:20Holly Frey?

  I hope that you get time to hang and relax, even if you don't have time off the next couple of days, I still hope you get time to hang and relax and that you do something really nice and maybe a little indulgent for yourself because that's the good stuff. That's what life is about. Find your joy wherever you can. We'll be back on Monday with a brand new episode. We will also be back tomorrow with a classic.

• 26:51Tracy V. Wilson?

  Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 27:06Tracy V. Wilson?

  You ever show up late to the game and your friends already saved your seat, your drink, even a plate? That's looking out. That's having your back. And that's exactly what AT&T does with the AT&T Guarantee. They know staying connected matters, so they actually guarantee a network that comes through when it counts. AT&T has connectivity you can depend on, or they'll proactively make it right, just like that friend who takes care of things before you even ask. AT&T: Connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee for details.

• 27:39Holly Frey?

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  This January, bare-knuckle fighting championship takes over the ocean. The inaugural Brew's Cruise sails from Miami to the Bahamas aboard the Norwegian Jewel. Three straight days with pool deck bare-knuckle fights in the Caribbean. Massive parties, beach events, DJs, cigars, tequila tastings, and nonstop action. The lineup reveals coming soon. Cabins are disappearing fast, and the prices won't stay this low. Reserve your spot with just $200 down at bkfsea.com.

• 28:40Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.