The Science Of Thriving In Winter—By Embracing It

In a conversation from January, a psychologist and author of “How To Winter” explains what we can learn from people thriving in the coldest parts of the world.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Flora Lichtman?

  Hey, I'm Flora Lichtman and this is Science Friday. Winter has just started and I'm already in the doldrum. So I wanted to pull an episode out of the vault today that I personally need to revisit to help me get through these cold, dark days. It's an episode where I talk to a wintertime expert of sorts. She's a researcher who's traveled to some of the coldest, darkest places on earth to learn how people there don't just survive, but thrive in winter. Apparently, one of the key ingredients is something I do not possess at the moment, which is a positive wintertime mindset. Here to tell us more is Dr. Keri Leibowitz, health psychologist and author of How to Winter: Harness Your Mindset to Thrive on Cold, Dark, or Difficult Days.

• 0:48Flora Lichtman?

  She's based in Amsterdam in the Netherlands. Keri, welcome to Science Friday.

• 0:52Speaker 01

  Oh, thanks so much for having me.

• 0:54Flora Lichtman?

  Have you always been a winter lover?

• 0:57Speaker 01

  No, I'm here with you today as a reformed winter hater, actually.

• 1:03Flora Lichtman?

  That's a relief.

• 1:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. Right. So there's, you know, I think, hope out there for you out there if you're feeling like this can never be you, because I thought it could never be me for a long time. I grew up at the Jersey Shore, which is a beach town, and, you know, summer reigns supreme and winter was the season that you just have to get through in between the best times of the year. And I really struggled with the winter growing up, really did not like the feeling of being cold, really had a hard time getting up, especially for school in the winter in the darkness, but also really feel like I was steeped in a culture that was very celebratory

• 1:49Speaker 01

  of summer and where sort of the general assumption was like, yeah, winter is depressing.

• 1:55Flora Lichtman?

  Yeah, there is a bias.

• 1:56Speaker 01

  Totally. Huge bias.

• 1:59Flora Lichtman?

  So you were converted by your own research.

• 2:04Speaker 01

  I was converted by my own research and by my experience moving to northern Norway, which was a thing that I did mostly on purpose, but also, you know, sort of like applied to do a research study in the Arctic to understand how people there make it through these very long, dark winters with relatively low rates of winter depression. And sort of, you know, never really actually expected to get the grant funding to go. And then I got it and I was like, oh my God, what have I done? Like, am I really gonna blow up my life and move to this place? And also, how will I survive this Arctic winter?

• 2:42Flora Lichtman?

  But you did.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  I did, and I learned a lot. And that was, you know, where my reformation really took place was in northern Norway, where I was exposed to, I mean, both a very special winter. I think, you know, northern Norway is a very magical winter wonderland, but also was exposed to a culture and a perspective where people were really doing things to embrace the season, really looking at winter differently, really approaching it differently, and where I learned a lot of lessons that, you know, even in places with perhaps slightly less magical winters that I have lived since then, I've been able

• 3:26Speaker 01

  to take with me, you know, through to other kinds of winters.

• 3:30Flora Lichtman?

  Yeah, I mean, I would have expected if you go to the Arctic, you would find widespread misery in the winter, but that is not what you found.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  If you look at lots of places in the world, including Norway and northern Norway, including Iceland, including the Netherlands, they actually tend to have lower rates of seasonal affective disorder than we would expect. And so it's clear that people all over the world who live through these very extreme, long, dark winters are able to do so without a lot of the winter depression that sort of paradoxically we see at, you know, lower latitudes and milder climates.

• 4:13Flora Lichtman?

  Carrie, what is their secret?

• 4:17Speaker 01

  Okay. I mean, there's a lot of things, I think, but you know, part of the secret is that I think they have a really different mindset and approach to the season. And so a big part of what that looks like is this willingness to adapt to winter. So I almost think there's an advantage of having a really extreme winter because when you live in a place like where I was living in Norway, where the sun actually doesn't rise for two months, it's obvious that that is going to affect you. And it's obvious that you can and should change your behavior to adjust to that. It's okay that you feel more tired in the winter, duh, because the sun isn't rising and you're in the Arctic. So

• 5:02Speaker 01

  obviously you're going to dress appropriately for the winter weather. Whereas I think people, you know, at more middle latitudes, we try to pretend like we can just carry on the same as in other seasons, like winter sort of shouldn't affect us. And so I think it's both our perspective and our approach. And of course, I also think there's a lot of cultural things and infrastructure in places that are really built for winter that enable people to embrace the season differently, as well as sort of, you know, their individual mindsets and perspectives.

• 5:36Flora Lichtman?

  And we're going to get into all that. We asked our listeners for their wintertime survival strategies. And first of all, I have to say, Michigan, Wisconsin, Upper Midwest was out in force for this one, as we might, we might expect. And a lot of the strategies we heard were Nordic inspired. So here's a clip.

• 5:57Speaker 02

  My name is Shannon Mitchell from Grand Haven, Michigan. And how do I get through the lake effect, darky winters that we have here? I have adopted a Finnish lifestyle from my experiences up in the Kewona, which is saunas, cold plunges, Nordic skiing. And when the sun is out, it's guns out, no matter what the situation is.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  I mean, this is both exemplifies this idea that we can really learn from the Nordics and apply it to wherever we are. But also, you know, what I like about these strategies is that they work with the season to find the opportunities in winter, right? What things are better in the winter? A cold plunge? I don't know. A cold plunge. Well, a cold plunge you can really only do True. in the winter. True. And so the question is, what seasonal activities can you give yourself in winter to look forward to annually?

• 6:52Flora Lichtman?

  Let me run another listener's strategy by you. What do you think about this one?

• 6:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 6:57Speaker 03

  Hi, this is Toni in Charlotte, North Carolina, and I'm sitting in a Chick-fil-A parking lot having my peppermint shake. That's one help. It's starting to snow, but my most regular thing that I go to is a nice cup of tea and the Hallmark Channel. It seems to help quite a bit.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  Toni, you and my mom are birds of a feather. Cup of tea and the Hallmark Channel, like you could be in my house any day in December. But, you know, I think what's special about the Hallmark Channel, right, is it's this seasonal ritual that you look forward to. It's such a small ritual, and so many of these ways of embracing winter is, like, they sound trivial. They're, they're basic. But when you do that with a little bit of intention, this is one of those strategies that takes on an outsized meaning because it transforms something that we usually feel is unpleasant, or uncomfortable, or a negative of the cold, and makes it into an opportunity

• 8:05Speaker 01

  for this other kind of sensory pleasure that is small but comforting.

• 8:10Flora Lichtman?

  No, it's so true. I mean, hot frosty does work better in December than in July.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can't watch hot frosty in July. Like, get out of here.

• 8:23Flora Lichtman?

  We've got to take a quick break, but don't go anywhere. We have got lots more when we come back.

• 8:34Speaker 04

  Science Friday is supported by PBS, presenting Going Wild. If you love learning about the natural world and meeting the scientists who help us understand it, be sure to check out the new season of Going Wild with Dr. Ray Wynn-Grant. It's the chart-topping and Webby Award-winning podcast from the folks at Nature on PBS, now with a video companion series. In this season of Going Wild, host acclaimed wildlife ecologist Dr. Ray Wynn-Grant heads out into the field to explore the animals, people, and stories that make nature worth saving. Stops include a hibernating black bear den in Arkansas and an underwater shipwreck site off the Florida coast. If you're looking for a place to start, check out the season's debut episode, where Ray joins beloved biologist and influencer Jordan King in the Florida Everglades to learn about

• 9:18Speaker 04

  his unlikely journey into science and how to study a wetland when it's not very, well, wet. So don't miss out. Follow Going Wild with Dr. Ray Wynn-Grant on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 9:31Speaker 05

  Support for Science Friday comes from the Hyacinth Simons Foundation. Unlocking knowledge, opportunity, and possibilities. More at hsfoundation.org.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  All right, let me run another listener message by you.

• 9:48Speaker 06

  Hi, this is Dee from North Manchester. And I was sharing how I make it through the winter in '72, so I've made it through several. Every fall, I plant more daffodils in the ground, and then I just wait impatiently for them to sprout in the spring. And it's always something to look forward to.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  Yes, I love this one also, Dee. I mean, this one does two things, right? So it gives Dee something to do in the fall as the days are getting shorter, which is a time that I think many people, sort of consciously or unconsciously, have sort of winter panic, you know? Like, the days are getting shorter, we're going into it, we're like, oh no, here we go. And so, an activity that is seasonal to that time of year can really counteract that. And then the other thing it does is it gives Dee a marker... Of early springtime. So one of the strategies that I really love is the Sami, who are the indigenous people of northern Scandinavia, actually have eight seasons.

• 10:56Speaker 01

  So they have winter, spring, summer, fall, and also four bridge seasons. So spring, summer, summer, fall, fall, winter, and spring, winter. And I think spring, winter is a really handy sub-season to sort of separate out in our hearts and minds, because often depending on where you live, anytime between, you know, mid-February to late April, early May, you're sort of in this transition period where maybe mentally you're over the winter, you're kind of done with it, and you get that first warm day of spring and you're like, that's it, I'm putting my coat away, like I'm done. And then the next day it's cold again, you know?

• 11:40Speaker 01

  And it's not spring, but it's not winter. It's spring, winter.

• 11:45Flora Lichtman?

  I love spring, winter, and actually having you name it really does bring me to a very, very specific memories of it. I almost can smell it, like that petricor, that sort of like earth smell that comes back when the ground isn't frozen anymore. And I can see my front yard where there's a lot of little crocuses popping through. And it's interesting that just giving it the name somehow then carves it out in my own mind.

• 12:19Speaker 01

  Totally. I mean, you know, I think having the language to describe these things is really powerful. And I think this is even, you know, the whole power of talking about your wintertime mindset, you know? You already had a wintertime mindset before it was named for you. But when it's called out and you have a word for it, you can start noticing it and paying attention to it and experiencing it differently.

• 12:43Flora Lichtman?

  Yeah, I want to talk more about this positive wintertime mindset. Is this like snowflake pilling ourselves? Like we just, how do you define it?

• 12:53Speaker 01

  So, you know, I use that word very specifically. So we think of mindsets as sort of the core assumption about something in the world and how it works. And so The truth is that lots of things in the world are ambiguous, right? Like, stress is a good example. Stress can be harmful for our health and wellbeing, but it also can be helpful for our performance and our health and wellbeing, right? The stress response evolved to help us meet our goals. And so when we encounter stress, what is our mindset about it? And how does that determine something like stress's impact on us? And you can think about that with winter as well. So winter has objective qualities.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  Winter is objectively dark, cold, usually wet. But the meaning of cold, dark, and wet is very ambiguous. Cold, dark, and wet can be refreshing, rejuvenating, cozy, magical.

• 13:52Flora Lichtman?

  That never occurred to me until you just said it.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  To most people, but really, it can be if you let it be.

• 13:59Flora Lichtman?

  We had a listener who left us a message. And when I heard it, I was like, yes, this listener has the positive wintertime mindset. Listen to this.

• 14:08Speaker 07

  Hello, my name is Cody. So I typically, living on the Oregon coast, we get all sorts of overcast. It is pretty oppressive for a lot of people. Me, though, I don't know if I'm a vampire, but I just soak it up. Winter is my favorite time.

• 14:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I think Cody has the positive wintertime mindset. Some people just sort of like that overcast or inherently feel that it is cozy. But I think even if you're not naturally like Cody, it's a thing that you can train yourself to appreciate a little bit.

• 14:51Flora Lichtman?

  Okay, and let me run another listener's coping mechanism by you.

• 14:56Speaker 08

  Hi, this is Dan in Bear Lake, Michigan. I adopted a couple of dogs. They love the snow and they truly love it when I get outside with them. So they're helping me a lot in not just coping with, but enjoying winter.

• 15:13Flora Lichtman?

  What do you think?

• 15:13Speaker 01

  I mean, I think dogs are good for everything.

• 15:16Flora Lichtman?

  Can't go wrong with a dog.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  Can't go wrong with a dog. I mean, a dog is a really great motivator for getting outside. But I also think, you know, there's something so pure, right? About a kid's relationship to the snow or a dog's relationship to the snow. You're just experiencing the fun of it is something we can learn from dogs.

• 15:34Flora Lichtman?

  Let's talk about seasonal affective disorder. How many folks actually fit the diagnosis for that?

• 15:41Speaker 01

  So seasonal affective disorder is really interesting because I think there's a lot of popular misconceptions about it. I think a lot of people think that it is a mild form of depression, that it is sort of a lower threshold than clinical depression. But the truth is that seasonal affective disorder is a subtype of clinical depression. So you first have to meet the criteria of clinical depression. It has to severely disrupt your quality of life and your daily functioning. And I think a lot of people have the experience of feeling affected by winter, of feeling like they're more tired in the winter, or they're less motivated, they have less energy, they feel less social.

• 16:26Speaker 01

  And actually, we can see that as a natural and normal response to the seasonal changes in light. You know, if you look at, if you look at every other living thing on earth, plant or animal, they're all changing their behavior or slowing down in some way in the winter. You know, a lot of the times when people have this feeling like, oh, I'm so tired in the winter, what's wrong with me? It's almost because we pathologized having any response to winter and were so hesitant to adapt to the season that we're quick to label it winter depression, when in fact it might not be.

• 17:04Flora Lichtman?

  Carrie, it seems like we have a lot of shorthand for this like negative view of winter, you know, winter doldrums, winter blues. Do we need a new shorthand for winter? Like winter whoopees, glacial giddies? Brainstorm with me here, Carrie.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, yeah, let's be the winter PR team, you know? I think winter wonder, winter wellness, you know? It doesn't maybe have to be alliterative, I guess.

• 17:36Flora Lichtman?

  It has to be. Dr. Carrie Leibowitz, health psychologist and author of How to Winter: Harness Your Mindset to Thrive on Cold, Dark, or Difficult Days. Carrie's based in Amsterdam in the Netherlands. This episode was produced by Shoshana Buxbaum. And before we go, I just want to give a bittersweet shout out to Emma Gomez, Science Friday's digital producer, who is moving on to a new role. If you have ever read a newsletter from Science Friday, you've read Emma's work and you've heard her too, reporting on movies and shows and duck stamp art. Emma, your energy, your enthusiasm, and your ability to run a Zoom meeting are truly unparalleled. But most of all, you're a creative powerhouse.

• 18:18Flora Lichtman?

  And I know I speak for all of us when I say, Emma, we're so sad to see you go, but we're so excited to see what you do next.

• 18:28Flora Lichtman?

  Thanks, Emma, and thank you all for listening. Happy holidays. I'm Flora Lichtman.